[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                       IMPROVING ACCESS TO EXTERNAL
                        VA CARE THROUGH ENHANCED
                         SCHEDULING TECHNOLOGY

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                        SUBCOMMITTEE ON TECHNOLOGY 
                              MODERNIZATION

                                 OF THE

                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                          MONDAY, MAY 5, 2025

                               __________

                           Serial No. 119-19

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
       
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]       


                    Available via http://govinfo.gov
                    
                                __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
61-152                     WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------     
 
 COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman

AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking 
    American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman      Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               JULIA BROWNLEY, California
NANCY MACE, South Carolina           CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa       SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina        Florida
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin         MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas               DELIA RAMIREZ, Illinois
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois
KEITH SELF, Texas                    TIMOTHY M. KENNEDY, New York
JEN KIGGANS, Virginia                MAXINE DEXTER, Oregon
ABE HAMADEH, Arizona                 HERB CONAWAY, New Jersey
KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern       KELLY MORRISON, Minnesota
    Mariana Islands
TOM BARRETT, Michigan

                       Jon Clark, Staff Director
                  Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director

                SUBCOMMITTEE ON TECHNOLOGY MODERNIZATION

                    TOM BARRETT, Michigan, Chairman

NANCY MACE, South Carolina           NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois, Ranking 
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas                   Member
                                     SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
                                         Florida

Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public 
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also 
published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the 
official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare 
both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process 
of converting between various electronic formats may introduce 
unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the 
current publication process and should diminish as the process is 
further refined.
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                          MONDAY, MAY 5, 2025

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

The Honorable Tom Barrett, Chairman..............................     1
The Honorable Nikki Budzinski, Ranking Member....................     3

                               WITNESSES
                                Panel I

Dr. Lisa Arfons, M.D., Acting Deputy Assistant Under Secretary 
  for Integrated Veteran Care, Veterans Health Administration, 
  U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs............................     6

Mr. Chris Faraji, President, WellHive............................     7

Mr. Jed Hansen, Executive Director, Nebraska Rural Health 
  Association....................................................     9

                                APPENDIX
                    Prepared Statements Of Witnesses

Dr. Lisa Arfons, M.D. Prepared Statement.........................    33
Mr. Chris Faraji Prepared Statement..............................    35
Mr. Jed Hansen Prepared Statement................................    41

 
                      IMPROVING ACCESS TO EXTERNAL
                        VA CARE THROUGH ENHANCED
                         SCHEDULING TECHNOLOGY

                              ----------                              


                          MONDAY, MAY 5, 2025

  Subcommittee on Technology Modernization,
                    Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                             U.S. House of Representatives,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 3:01 p.m., in 
room 360, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Tom Barrett 
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Barrett, Luttrell, and Budzinski.

           OPENING STATEMENT OF TOM BARRETT, CHAIRMAN

    Mr. Barrett. Good afternoon. The Subcommittee on Technology 
Modernization will come to order. Appreciate everybody who is 
here today. Appreciate our witnesses for being here and to the 
members that are here today for this subcommittee hearing.
    The purpose of today's hearing is about scheduling and what 
goes on at the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) for 
Community Care and access to that for our veterans, which is 
certainly a growing need that is taking place out there to make 
things more convenient and more conducive to veterans where 
they are and where they live.
    When veterans are referred to Community Care, the 
scheduling process should be simple, fast, and focused on their 
healthcare and getting them through in a timely and efficient 
manner, but for too long that has not been the case. It has 
been something that has been fraught with inefficiencies, 
challenges, and a back-and-forth between veterans, the VA, and 
ultimately the Community Care partner where they are receiving 
their care.
    To schedule an appointment, VA staff must pick up the phone 
again and again often calling the veteran and the provider 
multiple times to schedule an appointment. It is a tedious, 
manual, multi-step process that can stretch over hours into 
weeks, delaying care for the men and women who earned it. It is 
inefficient and unsustainable.
    Community Care is VA care and will remain a critical 
component of effectively delivering veteran healthcare.
    Approximately 2.8 million veterans used Community Care in 
2023 alone, and the outdated telephone model for scheduling 
these appointments is being crushed by the volume of requests 
from veterans for healthcare in their communities.
    VA's External Provider Scheduling, or EPS, is supposed to 
fix that and in many ways it is fixing it. EPS eliminates a 
large portion of the time and labor intensive aspects of 
Community Care scheduling by giving VA schedulers direct access 
to a provider's appointment availability, allowing them to 
directly interface with them to schedule their appointments.
    Through EPS, providers agree to share their scheduling 
grids with VA and allow schedulers to search and sort 
appointments by distance, drive time, availability, and more. 
With available Community Care appointments on one screen, a VA 
scheduler can book the appointment directly with a Community 
Care provider with just one call to the veteran.
    The average schedule for an appointment using EPS is 7 
minutes. Without having to rely on making multiple phone calls, 
some schedulers have been able to book up to four times as many 
appointments per day. Spending less time scheduling each 
appointment means VA schedulers can be more efficient, and 
veterans can get their appointments faster.
    Here is the problem: EPS is only active at about 20 percent 
of VA medical hospitals. Some facilities have only had EPS for 
a few months. While the program is adding new providers almost 
every day, there are roughly 6,000 provider services currently 
active in EPS, and that number will need to keep growing if the 
program is going to reach its potential.
    Provider participation is absolutely critical. EPS is only 
a few years old, and I understand that it takes time to adopt 
new technology, and certainly we have had issues of healthcare 
delivery since the pandemic that have complicated rollouts in 
technology modernization and all kinds of things.
    With strong leadership and a commitment from the VA, I fear 
that this will be yet another Information Technology (IT) 
project that withers on the vine with unrealized potential to 
improve veterans' lives. Without strong leadership, that could 
be the outcome.
    Despite EPS' promising results, the Biden administration 
repeatedly placed roadblocks in front of the program. In 2024, 
VA paused recruitment of community providers into EPS, 
deactivated sites where EPS was already up and running, and 
canceled plans to expand nationwide, all while blaming fake 
budget shortfalls.
    Turning off EPS at active sites does not just hurt 
veterans. It burns bridges with the community providers who may 
not trust VA to follow through again later.
    The technology works, and this subcommittee is not going to 
allow the VA bureaucracy to stand in the way of its own 
success.
    As the demand for Community Care continues to grow, VA 
cannot afford to continue scheduling millions of appointments 
over the phone.
    EPS is not just about scheduling faster. It is about 
reducing administrative burdens on VA staff.
    We are fighting every day to keep pace with scheduling 
Community Care appointments on behalf of veterans that the VA 
serves.
    It is about letting veterans make informed decisions by 
comparing VA and community provider availability.
    It is about honoring the basic promise that when a veteran 
needs care the system does not stand in the way.
    That is exactly what House Republicans are focused on and 
why this subcommittee hearing is so important to me.
    With the Trump administration in place, I expect VA to tell 
us what their plans are to reverse the Biden administration's 
protocols and expand the program to the rest of the VA, in 
addition to what they are doing to bring more Community Care 
providers into EPS.
    With strong leadership from the Trump administration, 
planning and oversight from this subcommittee, VA has a real 
opportunity to improve veterans' lives with this technology.
    Thank you again for being here, and I look forward to your 
testimony.
    Before I turn it over to the ranking member, I just want to 
say from a personal standpoint I had an issue with this not 
long ago where I was called by a provider vendor about 
scheduling an appointment and I gave them dates that I was not 
available because I was going to be here, not at home in 
Michigan, and they turned around and scheduled me an 
appointment on a date where I was not even going to be at home.
    When I called to inquire about that, they said, ``Well, our 
protocol is if we cannot get you scheduled on a date that you 
have requested, our procedure is to give you the next available 
appointment date.''
    Well, that did not help me, and I am questioning, all 
right, well, now I am calling into this call center, which is 
taking up some other person's time on the other end of the 
phone to try and schedule this, and it does not ultimately 
yield the outcome, what the purpose of this is, which is 
supposed to schedule the veteran for the care that they have 
been scheduled or referred for. They said it was about meeting 
their required metrics with the VA.
    This turned into a whole kind of chaotic thing. In fact, 
the culmination of this was they called me one morning when I 
was actually at a breakfast with members of this committee with 
Secretary Collins, and I was very tempted to just put this on 
speaker phone and see how it played out.
    Anyway, there are certainly a lot of efficiencies to be 
had, a lot of lessons to be learned. I want to make sure that 
we are not looking at this through a clear, ``if this, then 
that'' metric-driven mindset and more of a how do we get this 
veteran the appointed time that can work for them, meet their 
schedule, and meet the outcome of actually getting them the 
care that they have been referred to.
    With that, I will refer it over to the ranking member for 
your remarks.
    Thank you again for being here.

      OPENING STATEMENT OF NIKKI BUDZINSKI, RANKING MEMBER

    Ms. Budzinski. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you 
for sharing that.
    I want to also thank the witnesses for being here today. I, 
too, look forward to this afternoon's conversation about 
referral management and VA's modernization effort for Community 
Care scheduling with the External Provider Scheduling solution, 
or otherwise as we have been referring to it as EPS.
    While I have grave concerns about the expansion of 
Community Care supplanting VA's ability to provide direct care, 
there is no denying that it is an important tool in ensuring 
veterans' access to healthcare, especially in rural America.
    It is incumbent upon Congress and VA to ensure that both 
Community Care and VA direct care are properly resourced so 
that one does not diminish the other.
    I am concerned that the technology that helps these 
programs run will be undermined by the Trump administration's 
proposed cuts of almost half a billion dollars to the VA's IT 
budget in Fiscal Year 2026.
    That being said, VA's current practice for scheduling 
Community Care appointments is archaic and time consuming.
    Referral management personnel call around looking for 
available appointments with Community Care, as the chairman 
talked about, and then coordinate with the veteran to find the 
right slot, added at the right time, in the right location, 
with the right doctor. Then they gather the appropriate medical 
record data and transmit it--frequently using a fax machine--to 
the Community Care provider.
    I have heard this process averages around 20 days. That is 
an incredibly lengthy process given that it is in addition to 
the wait times many providers already have.
    We can and must do better for our veterans.
    WellHive boasts that through their system they connect 
Community Care provider calendars with VA referral management 
teams. The scheduling process can take as little as 6 minutes. 
That is great to hear. I hope the subcommittee can work with 
our Health Subcommittee colleagues to address the rest of the 
process.
    To be clear, the technology is only one part of the 
solution. We should also be looking at the workflows leading up 
to the point of scheduling.
    For instance, how can we help VA streamline tasks, like 
eligibility reviews, the development of the referral document, 
and the transmission of clinical documentation?
    How can we improve the training and guidance provided to 
essential referral coordination teams to ensure they are able 
to do their jobs adequately?
    How can we make appointment scheduling faster and easier 
for veterans?
    How can we improve the workflows before and after the point 
of scheduling so that veterans are not sitting around just 
waiting for an appointment to be scheduled?
    We owe it to our veterans to speed up this process so that 
they are receiving timely access to the care that they need and 
they deserve, whether that is at a VA facility or a community 
provider.
    WellHive is only as effective as the network of providers 
connected to the tool, which has been inconsistent across the 
34 sites currently using the solution. I have heard that some 
sites have hundreds of providers signed up while last fall at 
least one site only had two.
    I hope to better understand the gaps in this network and 
what VA and WellHive plan to do to address it.
    I look forward to hearing from our departmental employees 
here today, vendor partners like WellHive, and those 
organizations that bring community providers into the fold, 
like Mr. Hansen, on how we can further engage providers on the 
WellHive system.
    Additionally, Congress has been calling for the VA to be 
able to provide an apples-to-apples comparison of wait times in 
VA direct care versus Community Care.
    WellHive has that capability, so I would urge VA to utilize 
it. For example, with this tool, veterans could know that VA's 
first available appointment is in 22 days, making them eligible 
for Community Care. EPS' fully integrated scheduling solution 
might also tell them that the first available appointment in 
the community is in 35 days.
    VA should give veterans that fuller picture of their 
options. This would let the veterans themselves make the 
informed choices among available Community Care appointments 
and VA direct care appointments.
    Community Care is a critical tool for ensuring veterans' 
access to care, but for large swaths of our country community 
access is not any better than the VA access. VA has always 
struggled to communicate that to veterans because it did not 
have the tools to back it up.
    As we work to modernize the Department of Veterans Affairs, 
veterans should be able to make decisions about their 
healthcare with the full breadth of information available.
    Providing that access means ensuring veterans are educated 
on their options, the VA is adequately staffed and funded, 
modern systems are in place, and VA's employees know how to use 
them.
    I thank the witnesses for being here, and I look forward to 
our conversation today.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you, Ranking Member Budzinski. I think 
we both gave our remarks in just slightly more time than it 
takes them to schedule an appointment with their system. Look 
forward to hearing more about that.
    I will now introduce our witnesses.
    From the Department of Veterans Affairs, we have Dr. Lisa 
Arfons--did I say that correct, Doctor? Very good--Acting 
Deputy Assistant Under Secretary for Integrated Veteran Care.
    That is a great title. Look forward to hearing from you.
    Also joining us today is Mr. Chris Faraji, President of 
WellHive.
    Is that right? Did I say your name correctly? Very good.
    Finally, we have Mr. Jed Hansen--I did not have to ask on 
that one--Executive Director of the Nebraska Rural Health 
Association.
    I will ask all the witnesses to please stand and raise your 
right hands.
    [Witnesses sworn.]
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you.
    Let the record reflect that all witnesses have answered in 
the affirmative.
    Dr. Arfons, you are now recognized for 5 minutes for your 
opening statement on behalf of VA. Thank you again for being 
here.

                    STATEMENT OF LISA ARFONS

    Dr. Arfons. Thank you.
    Good afternoon, Chairman Barrett, Ranking Member Budzinski, 
and distinguished members of the subcommittee. Thank you for 
the opportunity to testify on VA's work to enhance veterans' 
experiences through modern and efficient scheduling 
technologies.
    My name is Dr. Lisa Arfons, and I am the acting deputy 
assistant under secretary for health for integrated veteran 
care. My testimony today will focus on the External Provider 
Scheduling program, its successes, its opportunities for 
improvements, and VA's plans for expansion.
    Since the enactment of the John S. McCain III, Daniel K. 
Akaka, and Samuel R. Johnson VA Maintaining Internal Systems 
and Strengthening Integrated Outside Networks (MISSION) Act, VA 
has significantly expanded veteran access to healthcare. As of 
this past March, we have provided over 39.6 million Community 
Care referrals to more than 5.4 million veterans.
    To improve service delivery, VA is focusing on innovations 
that put veterans first. EPS is an initiative aimed at 
improving veterans' experience and access to care through 
enhanced scheduling technology.
    Recognizing the urgent need to prioritize veterans, this 
administration, under the leadership of Secretary Collins, 
reinforced the need for quick EPS implementation. In just the 
first 100 days, we expanded EPS from 16 sites last fall to 36 
sites today, rapidly improving access and bringing more 
facilities and providers online.
    VA recognizes the need to provide veterans with clear, 
concise, comparable information about their healthcare options, 
whether within VA or in the community. To support this goal, 
VA's exploring EPS capabilities for both VA direct and 
Community Care scheduling, furthering the Secretary's 
commitment as promised under the VA MISSION Act.
    EPS allows VA staff to schedule veterans directly into 
available Community Care provider appointment slots through a 
single user interface, seamlessly connecting veterans to 
Community Care providers.
    This single user interface displays provider availability 
and reduces back-and-forth communication delays. By providing 
detailed information on who, where, how, and when care is 
available, EPS helps veterans make timely and informed 
decisions about their healthcare.
    Early examples demonstrate key benefits of EPS, including 
an enhanced veteran experience, streamlined coordination, and 
strengthened partnerships.
    As of May 1, EPS has been successfully implemented in 36 VA 
medical centers with 18 medical centers scheduled to go live by 
the end of this fiscal year. Over 6,000 provider services are 
active in EPS across 62 specialties.
    To realize the full capability of EPS, we do recognize the 
need for better change management and training. VA developed an 
online training program enabling VA staff to take the training 
as needed. The EPS team also provides office hours and 
immediate live support for those users requiring assistance.
    Implementing EPS has presented many opportunities, 
particularly in onboarding Community Care providers. Many 
providers are understandably concerned about new systems 
integrating within their existing workflows and whether 
additional training or resources will be required.
    We have addressed these concerns by demonstrating that EPS 
eliminates the need for phone calls, minimizes burdens on 
administrative staff, and streamlines the Community Care 
authorization process.
    Providers retain control over their scheduling system 
visibility and they are able to display as many appointments as 
they wish.
    This approach benefits providers and puts veterans first by 
mitigating barriers to accessing the healthcare choices they 
have earned.
    In conclusion, the EPS program is no longer an experiment. 
It is a proven tool of fundamentally transforming how veterans 
access care.
    Thanks to renewed focus and leadership, EPS is now reaching 
more veterans, at more sites, faster than ever before.
    We are committed to building on this momentum, expanding 
EPS nationally, and continuing to refine the system based on 
real world feedback from veterans, VA staff, and community 
providers.
    By removing barriers, minimizing delays, and placing 
veterans at the center of the scheduling process, EPS helps 
deliver the timely high quality care veterans deserve.
    We look forward to working with the subcommittee to ensure 
continued improvements in the scheduling process and overall 
care for veterans.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I am 
prepared to answer any questions you may have.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Lisa Arfons Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Barrett. Thank you, Doc. I appreciate that.
    The written statement of Dr. Arfons will be entered into 
the hearing record.
    Mr. Faraji, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver 
your opening statement on behalf of WellHive. Thank you again 
for being here.

                   STATEMENT OF CHRIS FARAJI

    Mr. Faraji. Chairman Barrett, Ranking Member Budzinski, and 
distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the 
opportunity to testify today.
    WellHive is a healthcare software technology company and we 
are proud to support the Department of Veterans Affairs through 
our role in the External Provider Scheduling program. Our 
fundamental goal is to partner with VA to modernize scheduling, 
improve care navigation, and ensure veterans receive timely, 
high quality healthcare.
    Our platform seamlessly integrates across health systems, 
providing real-time visibility and access to provider schedules 
into a single intuitive interface, much like how platforms such 
as Expedia simplify finding and booking travel.
    The journey to modernize scheduling for Veterans Health 
Administration (VHA) began with a pilot program launched in 
2020. This pilot, starting in Orlando, Florida, and expanding 
to Columbia, South Carolina, sought to answer critical 
questions. Can this technology work reliable with VHA? Is it 
scalable? Most importantly, does it enable faster access to 
care for veterans?
    A structured evaluation process, including input from 
integrated project teams and industry Request for Information 
(RFIs), confirmed the potential and led to a competitive award 
of the External Provider Scheduling contract to WellHive in 
September 2023.
    In my February testimony, I emphasized the importance of 
aligning people, process, and technology. Today, under 
Secretary Collins' leadership and with bipartisan support of 
Congress and these committees, we are finally seeing that 
alignment deliver real progress for veterans through the 
External Provider Scheduling.
    This program is fundamentally transforming how the VA 
connects veterans with Community Care. By offering real-time 
scheduling visibility across their vast, diverse provider 
network, including major health systems, academic affiliates, 
and individual practices, it empowers VA scheduling teams to 
act faster with greater insights. This significantly reduces 
veteran wait times and delivers a more veteran-centric 
experience.
    Yes, like many ambitious initiatives, the External Provider 
Scheduling program has faced challenges since its award, 
including shifting priorities and coordination issues. Despite 
these hurdles, the underlying technology has consistently 
delivered on the original commitment to reduce wait times and 
enhance the scheduling process for veterans, VA staff, and 
Community Care providers.
    Now, with renewed commitment and strong leadership, we are 
seeing significant momentum. This program is currently live in 
36 VA medical centers across the Community Care Network regions 
and is on track to expand to the additional 18 VA medical 
centers with the potential for nationwide implementation by the 
end of fiscal 2025.
    These results are clear and measurable, demonstrating 
tangible benefits. The average time to schedule an appointment 
using EPS is 7 minutes. We are seeing up to a four-times 
increase in productivity for VA staff using the program even 
without critical integration in the VA systems.
    Since January, active provider services participating in 
digital scheduling through EPA have increased at a rate of 21 
percent month over month.
    Most importantly, appointments scheduled through EPS have 
increased by 121 percent in the first 4 months of this year. 
This means veterans are receiving care faster.
    Community providers are also finding the model 
transformative and are actively participating. As one partner 
shared, ``Partnering with WellHive has improved our scheduling 
process and has increased timely access to care for our veteran 
population.''
    This program has a strong backing from key stakeholders, 
including leading veteran service organizations and state 
directors who recognize its critical role in reducing delays 
and enhancing care navigation.
    EPS is also paving the way for future advancements, such as 
integrating VA and Community Care scheduling into a single 
view, offering that apples-to-apples comparison which 
ultimately gives the veterans choice.
    Achieving widespread veteran self-scheduling is enabled by 
a nationwide rollout of this program. Think of it as laying the 
digital tracks. The more tracks you lay across the country, the 
more veterans can ride the self-scheduling train.
    This year, in collaboration with the VA.gov team, the 
program is helping VA make significant advancements in 
fulfilling the Cleland-Dole Act by introducing self-scheduling 
pilots in July 2025.
    Before concluding, I would briefly like to address some of 
the comments that were made by the chairman and the ranking.
    Mr. Chairman, you mentioned that your preference is that 
you had to provide to that call center agent or that Medical 
Support Assistant (MSA) was cumbersome, right, and having EPS 
on that phone call would have prohibited the back-and-forth, 
because you would have been able to make informed decisions, 
and that is what a lot of veterans are experiencing today with 
EPS.
    Ranking Member, you mentioned about key integration with 
things like the referral management system. We also truly 
believe that that integration will help also streamline the 
process.
    The External Provider Scheduling program is no longer just 
a promise. It is a proven, scalable solution addressing one of 
the VA's most persistent challenges.
    Under Secretary Collins' strong leadership and with the 
enduring bipartisan commitment from Congress, we can and will 
fulfill the promise that this program holds, delivering timely, 
effective care for every veteran across the Nation.
    Thank you again, and I look forward to your questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Chris Faraji Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Barrett. Thank you.
    The written statement of Mr. Faraji will be entered into 
the record.
    To your point, I think I would have been better off if they 
had just told me here are three providers you can go through, 
call them and see if you can schedule an appointment, instead 
of going through the endless loop. I have some strong opinions 
about it, as you can probably tell. Thank you again.
    Mr. Hansen, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver 
your opening statement on behalf of the Nebraska Rural Health 
Association.

                    STATEMENT OF JED HANSEN

    Mr. Hansen. Thank you, Chairman Barrett.
    Chairman Barrett, Ranking Member Budzinski, and 
distinguished members of the subcommittee, thanks for the 
opportunity to speak with you today.
    I am Jed Hansen. I am executive director of Nebraska's 
Rural Health Association where I work closely with our rural 
hospitals, clinics, and providers across our State.
    I have spent over a decade clinically in emergency care 
nursing and as a nurse practitioner and more recently as an 
advocate for improving rural health systems.
    I am here today to talk about the External Provider 
Scheduling program, or EPS as we are calling it, and why it is 
working for Nebraska's veterans and how it can be scaled 
nationally.
    I first learned about EPS in 2023 during its pilot phases 
in South Carolina and Florida. I was impressed by the program's 
approach to streamline scheduling for veterans needing 
Community Care, and recognizing some of the unique challenges 
that we face in Nebraska and rural Nebraska, I pushed for a 
rural pilot.
    Thanks to appropriations and policy support from one of our 
Senators, Senator Fischer, along with Senator Moran out of 
Kansas, the EPS program transitioned to a national rollout.
    In 2024, the Nebraska Rural Health Association, along with 
our hospital association, launched a statewide effort to raise 
awareness and support for EPS adoption. We used our 
association's reach to accelerate implementation with 
newsletters, regional meetings, webinars, and even a technical 
session with members of the WellHive team at our annual 
conference.
    Simply, the model is delivering results. Nebraska's two 
largest academic medical centers, Catholic Health Initiatives 
(CHI) Health Creighton and the University of Nebraska Medical 
Center, are actively implementing EPS.
    We have 50 independent provider groups that are live today, 
including those in mental health, optometry, physical therapy, 
and chiropractic services. We also have 35 critical access 
hospitals engaged, with eight now in active onboarding.
    We have also been fortunate to partner with national 
organizations like the National Rural Health Association and 
the National Organization of State Offices of Rural Health, 
which have both helped amplify EPS awareness regionally and 
nationally.
    Just as importantly, we have maintained strong 
relationships with our local VA medical center leadership teams 
in Omaha, our State VA director, and the VA Office of Rural 
Health, all of whom have been critical partners in ensuring 
alignment and success.
    I would like to share briefly why this matters.
    I recently spoke with Mr. Gregory Hake, a Navy SEAL and 
Nebraska native, and he shared his story with me. He recalled 
long drives just to receive some basic care in rural Nebraska, 
something that he said was manageable when he was younger and 
healthier but now he sees those as potentially devastating 
barriers for older veterans, particularly those who rely on 
sometimes inconsistent transportation for services.
    Now living in San Diego, Mr. Hake waited 9 months for an 
Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) through the VA. He describes a 
system where treatment was only offered on an episodic basis 
and where specialty care was sometimes inconsistent.
    As he put it, many veterans, especially those living in 
rural areas, are stuck navigating a fragmented, slow-moving 
healthcare experience when they are already vulnerable.
    Unfortunately, I do have other stories to share.
    He was, however, very quick to point out when we were 
talking that this was despite the kind and dedicated providers 
and staff of the VA.
    Based on our experience, I would like to respectfully offer 
the following recommendations.
    One, support our rural providers with Federal 
appropriations to help offset some of the IT staffing shortages 
and burdensome interfaces that they face.
    Two, look to incentivize academic and tertiary providers 
with a time-limited enhanced payment model that could possibly 
speed adoption.
    Three, looking to ensure Electronic Health Record (EHR) 
vendor alignment, especially with those large organizations, 
such as Epic and Oracle Cerner, to make sure that EPS 
integration is more accessible and affordable across all care 
spectrums.
    Four, looking to leverage state-level organizations.
    Rural health associations such as mine, hospital 
associations, and State offices of rural health are well-
positioned to serve as liaisons for local implementation.
    In States like Michigan, your State office is extremely 
active. In States like Illinois, you have organizations like 
Illinois Critical Access Hospital Network (ICAHN) that could 
easily fulfill this work in a similar fashion that we are doing 
in Nebraska.
    Finally, we need to continue to engage our national 
partners, including the National Rural Health Association, 
American Hospital Association, and others, and very 
importantly, to continue to work with local VA teams and the VA 
Office of Rural Health to make sure that we are providing broad 
reach and awareness of the program and to ensure that EPS 
remains connected to the communities it is meant to serve, 
which are our veterans.
    In closing, Nebraska's success shows that national 
innovation, when paired with local engagement, along with 
trusted partners, can produce some meaningful results for our 
veterans.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify, and I am truly 
honored to be a part of the conversation today.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Jed Hansen Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Barrett. Thank you. Thank you for your recommendations 
as well.
    The written statement of Mr. Hansen will also be entered 
into the hearing record.
    We are now going to proceed with questioning, and I will 
recognize myself for 5 minutes.
    I really appreciate, again, the testimony of those of you 
that are here today.
    Starting out, I had a question about the implementation of 
how WellHive organizes all this.
    You sign up basically Community Care partners that will 
interface with your system, that then a scheduler can look at 
and see the availability that is out there for a particular 
veteran for the service that they are referred for.
    Is that kind of a starting point of how it operates?
    Mr. Faraji. That is correct. We meet the providers where 
they are at. They continue to use their EHR systems and we have 
direct integrations into those systems.
    Mr. Barrett. Is every EHR, the scheduling component of 
that, is that a portion within the EHR or is that a stand-alone 
add-on that is usually available?
    Mr. Faraji. It is different from every EHR system and 
different manufacturers.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. There is not like one scheduling system 
that every provider uses. They are all going to be a little bit 
different.
    Is a portion, I guess, or the barrier to entry to get more 
providers signed up, is it the portal that needs to exist to 
get your ability to see their availability, is that something 
you have to code specifically for each individual provider that 
signs up?
    Mr. Faraji. Really, it becomes more of an awareness issue 
and understanding the benefits of the EPS platform.
    Once providers understand that, it becomes--the technical 
part is very straightforward. We are merely putting connections 
in and establishing that so that we are able to see those 
clinical grids.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. Then does the provider pay for that 
technical upgrade, if you will, to be able to interface, or is 
that done by WellHive?
    Mr. Faraji. There is no charge.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. WellHive does that.
    Mr. Faraji. That is right.
    Mr. Barrett. You have just got enough people, and you built 
it for enough systems that you have probably got most of them 
interoperability-wise figured out at this point?
    Mr. Faraji. Correct. We have a formula of things where we 
are doing direct. We use partners, et cetera, to be able to 
make those connections happen.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. Okay.
    For Mr. Hansen, is the reimbursement rate that the VA pays 
pretty lucrative for rural hospitals? Like, if you have a 
procedure that is being referred out, obviously you would not 
want to be signed up in a part of this if it was not something 
that you felt was at least fair and equitable for the services 
you are providing.
    Mr. Hansen. Yes. I do not know that there is really much of 
anything that we would say is lucrative in rural healthcare.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Barrett. Yes. If I ask any hospital that, they will say 
no.
    Mr. Hansen. There are certainly drivers, and volume is 
vitality when we are talking rural healthcare. Really what I 
found when I am working with our critical access hospital 
leaders is that is not the driver.
    We have a number of our leadership teams where they are 
veterans or maybe their parent was a veteran or grandparent. 
Really in any rural community you do not have to go too far 
until you have that veteran connection. Really, the driver has 
been that they are wanting to improve access for their 
neighbors.
    Mr. Barrett. Sure. I know that, especially in rural 
communities, you might be separated a significant distance from 
the nearest VA larger facility that would afford you that 
opportunity then to go more locally and receive that service 
that already might be predominantly done through the rural 
hospital network, but for this one service-connected condition 
you might be getting treated for at the VA, for example, or 
something. I know that has happened multiple times in my own 
district where people have that.
    Mr. Hansen. Yes, that is correct, Chairman.
    I can speak to Nebraska. I do not have some of the national 
data behind me. In Nebraska the average drive time for a 
veteran to a VA facility is about 39 minutes one way. On 
average, every rural veteran in Nebraska is going to be 
eligible under the MISSION Act for care in the community.
    Mr. Barrett. Sure. Okay. Thank you.
    Dr. Arfons, roughly how many Community Care referrals were 
created in Fiscal Year 2024? I assume that is our last year of 
data that we have available.
    Dr. Arfons. I have Fiscal Year 2024 through Fiscal Year 
2025 to date pulled up as of this morning. Fourteen million, 
just over 14 million.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. Fourteen million. Has that volume 
trended up or down in recent years?
    Dr. Arfons. Increased.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. Do you attribute that more to expanded 
programs, Sergeant First Class Heath Robinson Honoring our 
Promise to Address Comprehensive Toxics (PACT) Act, other 
things of that nature, veterans coming home and conditions from 
war on terror service connection, things like that, or do you 
attribute it more to awareness, more availability of Community 
Care? Where do you kind of land that mostly? Or all of the 
above?
    Dr. Arfons. All of the above.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. Yes. All right. Thank you.
    I am running short on time, but I will come back with a few 
more questions, I am sure.
    I want to yield to Ranking Member Budzinski for 5 minutes 
for her questions.
    Ms. Budzinski. Great. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you again to the witnesses for your testimony.
    As we have been talking about VA modernization, it is 
really come down to three different topics. It is either 
people, process, or technology.
    I do want to spend a little bit of time in my opening 
questions on the people part, and so my questions are for Dr. 
Arfons.
    I do remain very concerned about the Trump administration's 
actions over these last 3 months, and I fear that the VA is now 
being asked to do even more with less.
    In particular, serving on this committee, and the 
importance of really these technology efforts and the amount of 
staff and the specialty of the staff, the technology staff, the 
IT staff that we need to successfully get these off the ground. 
Very concerned about those.
    I was just curious if you could answer: Were any of the 
individuals with these referral coordination teams impacted by 
the probationary terminations that happened back in February?
    Dr. Arfons. The referral coordination team members are 
facility staff, so I cannot speak to that. I can take for the 
record.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Would you know if any of those staff 
were rehired at all if they were probationary and terminated?
    Dr. Arfons. I would not know that either because they are 
facility staff.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Have any of the individuals with the 
teams been targeted under the Secretary's reduction in force 
that you know of to plan to cut the VA's workforce by the 
additional 15 percent?
    Dr. Arfons. No, not that I am aware of.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. How many people in these teams have 
opted into the Deferred Resignation Program that you might know 
of?
    Dr. Arfons. I have no numbers related to that either. It is 
all facility led.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Have referral coordination team 
positions been exempt from the hiring freeze?
    Dr. Arfons. I am not aware of that. In general, our 
frontline staff are exempt.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Then a couple other questions.
    What kind of assessments has the VA done to ensure that VA 
medical facilities have the necessary staff to support the 
rollout of the EPS system beyond the pilot sites?
    Dr. Arfons. We work closely with sites when we are looking 
to see their readiness. It is really two sides of one coin.
    The first is assuring that sites themselves are ready. We 
look at their referral patterns, where they need assistance in 
terms of their workflows, referring veterans out, and what sort 
of leadership support that we have.
    The other side of the coin then, of course, is matching it 
then with the provider network and assuring that we are able 
then with WellHive support to have at least enough providers on 
the network to start so we can begin to see with new go-live 
how we are able to use the system and then integrate it more 
fully.
    This is a continuous process. We do not go live and leave. 
We continue to follow metrics. We look at veteran and staff 
feedback to ensure that we are rolling out correctly and then 
adjust if needed.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. As a part of that assessment that you 
make, do you take into account then my concerns around the 
Deferred Resignation Program, any impact that that might have 
on the assessments that you are making before a site goes live?
    Dr. Arfons. We have not incorporated that.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Okay.
    Then I have another question for you. This is more on the 
data side of things.
    Dr. Arfons, prior to the WellHive pilot, how many days did 
it take from order placement to appointment scheduling for a 
Community Care referral?
    Dr. Arfons. If I can answer that a little bit differently. 
What we see at the sites that have gone live for those 
referrals that are being scheduled, using traditional means, it 
is taking on average about 33 days.
    For those staff members, the veterans then who are 
scheduling referrals using EPS, it has cut that down by about a 
week to 25 days.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Okay.
    Then my next question is for Dr. Faraji.
    As you connect Community Care providers to veterans, what 
kind of information do you share with the veterans as it 
relates to that provider?
    Mr. Faraji. Thank you for the question.
    Right now the MSAs facilitate that conversation with the 
veteran, and they are using EPS to populate the information of 
the providers, their availability and what works best for them, 
where it calculates the drive time and distance.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Does it share--do they share any 
information as far as, like, how much work that that provider 
has done with the veterans community, any of the specific 
training as it relates to military sexual trauma awareness, 
Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) awareness, things like 
that that that provider might have had experience with? Do you 
share that knowledge with the veteran when you are making the 
referral?
    Mr. Faraji. Thank you for that question.
    The EPS program does not have those details inside the 
platform. It is primarily providing the information for 
availability----
    Ms. Budzinski. Scheduling. Yes, of scheduling.
    Mr. Faraji. That is right. The platform has an abundance of 
capabilities, but right now at that time is what it provides.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Okay.
    Oh, I am sorry. I am over time. I will come back.
    I yield to the chairman. Sorry. Thank you.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you, Ranking Member Budzinski. We will 
have more time for more questions as we go through.
    I want to recognize Mr. Luttrell for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Luttrell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I am going to piggyback off your earlier statement.
    Mr. Faraji, we have an institution in the State of Texas 
that we engage with about EPS, and their response was we have 
multiple scheduling platforms inside our organization and we 
are looking at EPS for the veteran space.
    I do not understand the roadblock. Is that different 
institutions not wanting to onboard something because of 
complexity or is that just out of sheer laziness? I am going to 
say it that way.
    Mr. Faraji. Sir, thank you for the question.
    Every health system, provider practice, they all work in 
different ways. Sometimes it is a very straightforward 
conversation. Sometimes it requires a multitude of people to be 
able to provide that integration and show the availability.
    Mr. Luttrell. Dr. Arfons--actually, this is probably going 
to be for you, too, Mr. Faraji.
    We have 36 sites that are going to be--we are going from 16 
to 36, correct, 18 sites going live this year? Did you say 
that?
    Dr. Arfons. We are at 36 right now and going up to 54 by 
the end of the fiscal year.
    Mr. Luttrell. Dr. Faraji, you said potentially all of our 
VA sites, correct, 170-plus? That is the idea, correct?
    Mr. Faraji. At this time it is the 36 and 18.
    Mr. Luttrell. What is our projection to get every single 
site uploaded and on board?
    Dr. Arfons. VA is working through that right now.
    Mr. Luttrell. You got to give me something better than 
that.
    How long have you been in this position, Dr. Arfons?
    Dr. Arfons. Acting, since February.
    Mr. Luttrell. Okay. I am going to make the assumption or 
assume that the VA is completely on board with WellHive and the 
implementation of their software program inside the VA system 
is what we want?
    Dr. Arfons. We definitely recognize the benefits to 
veterans and connecting them to care sooner, yes, with EPS.
    Mr. Luttrell. Can you clarify the answer? That sounds like 
a political statement. Can you clarify that answer for me a 
little bit more?
    I think my concern is that how I understand it is this 
system works. If it is beneficial to the veterans, I do not 
understand why we are not moving forward. I am sure the 
Secretary will be 100 percent on board.
    Now, do we have to talk to the individual VA facility to 
say, ``Are you willing to onboard this?'' Or is this command 
and control from the secretarial level, and says, ``This is 
what we are doing''?
    Dr. Arfons. We are going to be continuing to roll out to 
the 18, so we have a total of 54. We will continue expanding 
throughout this Fiscal Year and then continuing to look at how 
those 54 sites have deployed to help guide us into the future.
    Mr. Luttrell. Mr. Hansen, you kind of command and 
coordinate all the Community Care facilities inside Nebraska 
for WellHive, correct?
    Mr. Hansen. I work with our----
    Mr. Luttrell. You bring all the Community Care facilities 
to WellHive or bring WellHive to those communities?
    Mr. Hansen. Correct. I provide the information on the EPS 
program out to our community hospitals.
    Mr. Luttrell. It is very--is it well received?
    Mr. Hansen. It is. Kind of to maybe tip in a little bit on 
the conversation, I became aware of the EPS program before our 
Veterans Integrated Service Network (VISN) leadership team in 
Omaha did, and so I actually approached them to ask them what 
their thoughts were on the program.
    I wanted to make sure that I was not missing something, 
because like yourself, it seems like this is just a good 
program for veterans.
    Overall we had very good buy-in at Omaha. I cannot speak to 
other VAs. I think part of what we are doing----
    Mr. Luttrell. You are sitting in front of me so just--has 
any of it blown up? I probably should not say it that way since 
we are in the House of Representatives. I mean, has any of it 
failed?
    Mr. Hansen. No. We have not had any points of failure right 
now. Really there is largely been goodwill with this program. 
It is just the right thing to do.
    Mr. Luttrell. Do you have buddies that are just like you in 
the other 49 States across the country that you are talking to?
    Mr. Hansen. I have a lot of buddies in other States.
    There is not really any secret sauce to what we are doing 
in Nebraska. In Texas you have Texas Organization of Rural and 
Community Hospitals (TORCH) as an example that would be an 
organization. I had mentioned the State office in Michigan. You 
have another private entity like ICAHN in Illinois. Every State 
has someone that is a good liaison.
    Mr. Luttrell. You seem to be handling Nebraska, though.
    Mr. Faraji, do you have to market this to all the community 
sites as well as the VA by, with, and through Mr. Hansen? I am 
sure that is pretty burdensome if you are the one--if you are 
the two doing it. It seems like something the VA should jump on 
board with. Is that happening?
    Mr. Faraji. As far as working--yes, we are individually 
going out and reaching out to providers and we have got a great 
recipe to that. We have seen a 21 percent increase month over 
month with the providers being onboarded.
    Working with Mr. Hansen is one example. We have been able 
to replicate that with the Arkansas Hospital Association, which 
was able to produce similar results with these larger health 
systems.
    It is definitely a team effort, but we are tackling this 
together.
    Mr. Luttrell. Thank you. I yield.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you.
    I will recognize myself again. We will do more rounds for 
members who have further follow-up questions.
    Dr. Arfons, I think it was you that said in answer to an 
earlier question that the average time had gone down from 33 
days down to 25, I think.
    Did you look anywhere at all about the distance traveled? 
Like, so going from 33 to 25 days, about a week give or take, 
depending on the thing you are referred for, that may or may 
not make a substantial difference to you.
    Another aspect of that or another dimension of it that 
might be more important is the distance traveled or the time 
available for that veteran to get that appointment more close 
to home, especially in rural communities like Nebraska or parts 
of Michigan that I represent.
    Dr. Arfons. No, we have not. We can take that for the 
record.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. I would be curious on that. I have only 
been to Nebraska once. I was in fifth grade. I did go to 
Creighton, and I saw Ozzie Canseco play a baseball game, minor 
league baseball game there, Jose Canseco's twin brother. It was 
definitely a Rural State. I can attest to that.
    I am curious, in Nebraska, do you find that there is a 
suitable partnership between the VA and your efforts to take on 
some of that Community Care in Nebraska, there is not a 
hesitation to involve Community Care through the VA system or 
the VA network?
    Mr. Hansen. I would say largely no. There is always some 
concern on the speciality side within the VA. That is really 
not what we are looking to achieve in Nebraska with this, 
especially in our rural communities.
    We want to make sure that things like primary care are 
covered, things like emergency care. Maybe after they have 
received specialized care at the VA that they can come back and 
receive their Physical Therapy (PT) in the community.
    We are trying to close that gap. If we have an access into 
our community for that veteran to receive care and if that is 
where they would like to get care, that is what we are trying 
to achieve.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. Thank you.
    Dr. Arfons, is there any correlation at all or any thought 
process behind the kind of integrating this EPS model with the 
already existing rollout through EHR?
    When a facility gets the new EHR rollout, they will also 
get EPS with it, so we are kind of doing this all at once when 
we are dealing with change management, or is there no rhyme or 
reason to how we are doing that?
    Dr. Arfons. As of this point, no. We certainly are open to 
that. We have gone live in Spokane, as I believe the committee 
is aware.
    Mr. Barrett. Oh, yes.
    Dr. Arfons. Definitely looking at opportunities for fuller 
integration with our technology systems, including EHR, so we 
can realize the benefits of EPS.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay.
    Mr. Faraji, following up on my earlier point and Mr. 
Luttrell's point, let us say I am a large hospital network in 
Michigan and you approach me about being part of this EPS 
network and I give you the keys to integrate into my system.
    You have got some adaptability that can probably do that. 
Whether I have EPIC, whether I have Oracle Cerner, whether I 
have one of the big ones, any large network is going to have 
one of only a few of these systems in all likelihood.
    What if I am the small audiology clinic and I have got one 
or two practitioners there and we schedule through Microsoft 
Outlook, or something like that--I do not know if people even 
do that nowadays, but let us suppose they do--are you able to 
integrate down to that more small, granular Community Care 
provider that might not be a large hospital system somewhere?
    Mr. Faraji. Thank you for that question.
    The answer, in short, is yes. We look at every site, every 
health system, every Practice Management System into the 
example that you provided, and we work closely with those 
providers and their team to understand what works best for 
them.
    What we will do is we will come up with a plan that says, 
hey, we are going to do it this way or we are going to do 
option B, so that we are able to produce their grids, and so 
they are able to show up with the availability to the VA.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. To Mr. Luttrell's earlier point about 
how a provider in his district says, yes, we are looking at 
adding this type of interfacing or a veterans scheduling, I 
would imagine, not being in that industry, that you would want 
one scheduling application for everything so you are not 
getting mixed up and turned around and double booking and all 
the other things.
    Is it common to have multiple scheduling applications in 
one practice?
    Mr. Faraji. Again, it really depends case by case. 
Typically, it is streamlined. In some cases it is not. We do 
our best to make sure that that is all unified so there is no 
duplication.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. All right. Thank you.
    I will now turn to Ranking Member Budzinski for another 5 
minutes.
    Ms. Budzinski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I just kind of wanted to pick up a little bit of where I 
left off. To Mr. Faraji, if WellHive had access to the data on 
cultural competency, wait times, et cetera, for Community Care 
providers, would you have the capacity to share that 
information with MSAs?
    Mr. Faraji. Yes. Thank you for the question.
    We will take the direction of VA with what they would like 
to display and share with the medical support assistance. Our 
platform is very dynamic and agnostic, so whatever you would 
like to have us provide, we can do so.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay.
    My next question is for Dr. Arfons, then.
    Does VA collect any quality of care metrics from the 
Community Care providers, like data on wait times, the return 
of clinical documents, and completion of VA's required 
trainings?
    Dr. Arfons. We do look at some required training 
completion. We do not collect national-level data on document 
return at this point. Then other quality data, we are building 
a more robust quality program.
    Ms. Budzinski. For the data that you might be collecting 
that might be a more fuller picture, would this be something 
that as the VA negotiates the new Third Party Administrators 
(TPA) contract, VA requiring the TPAs to collect and report 
this information to the VA, would that be possible?
    Dr. Arfons. I cannot speak to any acquisition-sensitive 
work right now, but we are definitely looking at what is most 
important to deliver quality care to veterans in direct and 
Community Care.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Okay.
    As I stated, I think it is really important for veterans to 
be able to make decisions about their healthcare with really 
the full breadth of information available.
    This includes information about the timeliness and quality 
of the care they would be accessing. I appreciate I did not 
hear a no, so maybe there could be some room to work out more 
additional information collected.
    Can I ask, Dr. Arfons, in 2021, the Government 
Accountability Office (GAO) released a report that identified 
approximately 1,600 Community Care providers who were not 
eligible to participate in the Community Care program, but were 
included on the provider list anyway.
    Has the VA developed the necessary controls to identify 
such providers that should be removed from the VA's patient 
care environments?
    Dr. Arfons. Through EPS, we actually run the exclusions 
list daily.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Dr.--I am sorry, Mr. Faraji--does 
WellHive perform any kind of regular assessment of the 
providers on its system to measure utilization or other 
metrics?
    Mr. Faraji. Thank you for the question.
    Yes, we do measure utilization of the platform.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Okay.
    Dr. Arfons, on this point, GAO has also made a number of 
recommendations to VA that identify the need to establish 
timeliness standards for care received in the community, like 
timeframes for when appointments should occur. Many of GAO's 
recommendations remain open today.
    Does VA intend to establish a standard for when veterans' 
appointments should occur?
    Dr. Arfons. We have that within the direct care system, 
namely how quickly we would like veterans to be scheduled and 
have their Community Care referrals processed within our 
system.
    Currently, our network adequacy is not measured by 
individual Community Care providers, it is done through the 
TPAs, who then have different standards not related to MISSION 
Act standards that do outline those requirements.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Well, given that, how does the 
department measure access for Community Care if they do not 
collect data on when or if appointment occurs?
    Dr. Arfons. We do collect that data. At this point we use 
it in two ways.
    First of all, we have network adequacy standards. We work 
with our TPAs to understand their performance.
    We also use it operationally at medical centers to 
understand how we can assist sites to improve their data and 
use their data to guide us to where we can improve people and 
processes.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. I understand the VA cannot fully 
control when appointments occur, but as we send more and more 
veterans into the community for care, we should have an idea of 
the quality of care that they are receiving and when they are 
receiving it.
    Establishing guidelines and metrics would help make sure 
the veterans receive quality care. I really do urge the VA to 
implement such standards to ensure that veterans can make 
informed decisions about their own healthcare.
    With that, I will pause and yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you, Ranking Member Budzinski.
    Mr. Luttrell, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Luttrell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Dr. Arfons, I am reading here that in order to schedule a 
Community Care appointment it takes nine different steps. Is 
that correct?
    Dr. Arfons. Yes.
    Mr. Luttrell. With the implementation of WellHive, that is 
substantially reduced.
    Dr. Arfons. Yes, that is correct.
    Mr. Luttrell. To how many?
    Dr. Arfons. Steps, I cannot say.
    Mr. Luttrell. Plus or minus. Nine to three? Nine to two?
    Dr. Arfons. What it cuts out is the back-and-forth.
    Mr. Luttrell. Well, I think--okay. I am going to speak as a 
veteran real quick.
    There is expectations that I have. I can say we have, 
because the chairman is a veteran as well. We live and breathe 
off of that good order and discipline and that proper chain of 
command and kind of a good infrastructure surrounding us to get 
us what we want and what we need. I think we deserve that right 
serving our military.
    I get it, the VA is this big machine. It is. What we are 
trying to do is drop drill this thing into a point where it is 
successful.
    My question to you is, what does VA consider success since 
we have nine--and I can promise you, if you are walking around 
with me in my district talking to all my veterans, one of the 
things they complain about is this.
    I think we are sitting here with the opportunity to course 
correct this ship right now, and I do not want to kick that 
proverbial can down the road.
    My question is, what does success look like in the VA?
    Now, this looks--the conversations that we are having, this 
seems like this has got 70 percent, hey, if it looks good, we 
are rolling, that is mission success.
    Can you walk me through this?
    Dr. Arfons. Success is always going to be delivering 
veterans the care that they want when they want it.
    Mr. Luttrell. You should write that down and put it on a T-
shirt, young lady. I got it. That is not what we are doing 
right now.
    Dr. Arfons. Yes. We are working toward success and this 
program is moving us toward that.
    Mr. Luttrell. Now, I am never going to kind of force an 
answer out of anybody. What my ask is, I think we are kind of 
positioned to do something great here, and I do not want you to 
walk out of the room and go back to the VA and this thing die 
on the vine.
    I can assure you, the 40,000 veterans in my community right 
now are watching this video and they demand the same thing that 
I would demand as a veteran, and I want to know if this seems 
solid. Why is not this implementation going to happen the way 
that it should?
    Dr. Arfons. We have made marked transit improvement since 
we last presented to this committee in September--more 
providers, more appointments scheduled, shorter timeliness to 
schedule--and every month and week we see increase over the 
prior.
    Since September, we have onboarded more than 4,000 
providers than we were here in September reporting. Just as of 
this month, we have made more than 3,000 appointments in EPS, 
which is more than any month prior.
    We will continue to work to not only roll out the 
additional 18 sites, but also maximize and optimize the 
integration of EPS at existing sites.
    Mr. Luttrell. Is this your sole responsibility in the VA? 
Are you the one in charge of this?
    Dr. Arfons. I am the executive sponsor. I have a team. That 
is their responsibility.
    Mr. Luttrell. If I am going to somebody, you are who I am 
going to be speaking with?
    Dr. Arfons. Absolutely.
    Mr. Luttrell. I look forward to--I do not even know what 
month it is now. Let us just say at the end of the year when 
these 36 sites go up and running and we are in a good place, I 
look forward to hearing where we have gone and where we intend 
to go.
    Thank you very much.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you.
    I will recognize myself again for 5 minutes.
    Dr. Arfons, kind of piggybacking on that, why have not we 
already gone to every VA facility?
    Like, if we know this works, if it is seemingly fairly 
plug-and-play, I do not want to oversimplify, Mr. Faraji, how 
the system works, but it sounds like it is not overly 
complicated to get someone signed up.
    What is holding us back from just doing this everywhere 
tomorrow?
    Dr. Arfons. The redesign of the deployment efforts----
    Mr. Barrett. The what? Can you say that again?
    Dr. Arfons. The redesign, so our plan for deployment 
efforts in Fiscal Year 2025 that we started in September of 
this year really focused on fewer number of VISNs; we were able 
to be more regional and focus then on hopefully making it more 
attractive to larger providers in the community, provider 
networks, who then could serve more medical centers within a 
VISN or even potentially more VISNs given their geographic 
adjacencies.
    This focus on having 6 VISNs rolled out by the end of 
Fiscal Year 2025, and the sites rolled out there, has proven to 
be successful given the trends that we are seeing. Then this, 
then, I think will allow us to plan in the future for further 
deployment from here.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. I got some of that. I guess I am 
confused on a little bit of it. A lot of areas where perhaps 
you might find a more correlation of need for Community Care 
are going to be areas that are probably going to have smaller, 
not larger, providers already embedded in those communities, 
given the more disparate rural nature that they have. If we can 
make some assumptions there, why are we focusing so much on 
bigger providers? That is going to attract a certain segment of 
the healthcare industry, but what about, like I said, the small 
provider in my community that I live in, or the one in the town 
adjacent to mine or the one, two counties over that I also 
represent that is particularly rural.
    Dr. Arfons. It is still a both/and, we are working with 
those individual, our smaller providers, through sites, but 
then looking more regionally to understand if we can then get 
some of those larger providers because we are covering more 
sites within a VISN.
    Mr. Barrett. So, if, though, if we know we want to get 
there, we want to get every VA site loaded into this, and we 
want to get everybody through, and I guess you could even 
foresee scenarios where people, probably not as common in
    Mr. Luttrell's district, but where I live, and maybe where 
you do, people spend a considerable amount of time out of 
State, like people in Michigan travel to Florida. A lot of 
veterans do that. What if they are in one VISN that has this 
service and the other one does not? It just--it could get into 
a weird scenario for people.
    To me, it does not seem--like we have the ability, through 
the work you do, through Mr. Faraji, through the work here on 
this committee, to just kind of speed this up and get this 
done. Part of me feels like there may have been an element--I 
do not want to call it sabotage because that is a pretty strong 
word--but an element of artificially slowing this down in the 
last administration from being rolled out. I want to make sure 
that we are not encountering that potential slow down or 
resistance currently. I tend to believe that that is not the 
case, but then I would like to see us accelerate some of the 
adoption of this.
    Dr. Arfons. From September, we have not slowed. We have 
sped up. Definitely. With the sites that we have with the 36 
sites, we have continued to learn and optimize our own 
deployment with every site.
    Mr. Barrett. Could not we roll it out and then add the 
providers over time instead of saying we want a bunch of 
providers before we roll it out? It seems like a chicken and 
the egg thing. Like we roll it out; we get it in place; and 
then, over time, we add and collectively build more providers 
that are participating as more veterans become aware of it, as 
more providers become aware of it, and the thing naturally 
takes more shape.
    Dr. Arfons. That is what we are doing. With initial 
deployment, what we have learned, going back to the two sides 
of the coin, that the timing of having VA staff readiness to 
work in the system and then having a provider network that then 
has expectations for us to use the system is key. Focusing on 
that timing for better integration to go live is very 
important. I think what we have learned as a lessons learned is 
misalignment, going out too soon with having a site go live 
without the provider network, or having too many providers 
waiting for us to go live on the VA side only hurts further 
acceptance.
    Mr. Barrett. I have only got 15 more seconds. I want to ask 
quickly. What is the training, like the amount of time it takes 
to learn this system? I saw an example of it. It looked pretty 
intuitive to me, but probably there is some training that goes 
into that.
    For Dr. Arfons, Mr. Faraji, maybe either one of you could 
explain, from the scheduler vantage point, what is that--what 
does that look like, and how long does it take because that to 
me does not seem like it would be a large barrier to getting 
this done?
    Dr. Arfons. From the VA side, we have an initial 30-minute 
training. That is all it takes to receive your keys to use EPS. 
We also, then, it is interactive training that will be about an 
hour so we can work virtually with teams, so----
    Mr. Barrett. Less than an afternoon still.
    Dr. Arfons. Yes. Yes.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay.
    Dr. Arfons. Yes. Then other opportunities to, after they 
are logged in and using the system, to improve their abilities.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. Doctor Mr. Faraji, from the provider's 
standpoint, it is visible to them; they just see that an 
appointment got loaded into their system on the back end by 
somebody else, correct?
    Mr. Faraji. That is correct.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. All right. Thank you. Ranking Member 
Budzinski.
    Ms. Budzinski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Hansen, I 
wanted to say thank you for being here. I really appreciated 
your testimony highlighting some of the unique challenges that 
it sounds like all of us face representing rural communities 
and access to rural healthcare. Obviously also highlighting, I 
think, some of the concerns around potential cuts to Medicare, 
Medicaid, and other community services.
    I just was wondering if you could give the VA and maybe us 
as Members of Congress advice on just how we can help 
streamline implementation of programs like EPS, especially when 
we know that, oftentimes, Community Care providers can be 
somewhat limited in their resources? Any advice you might have 
for us.
    Mr. Hansen. Yes. I really appreciate the question, 
Congresswoman. As we have been going back and forth with 
questioning, Chairman Barrett actually brought up a really good 
point about Cerner--Oracle, Cerner, and Epic, and whether you 
are talking a tertiary center or you are talking a critical 
access hospital, the services that WellHive are providing are 
included with the appropriation and the work they are doing. 
However, there still are interface fees that can be challenging 
for the smallest to small providers, including some of our 
critical access hospitals.
    Potentially partnering or working with some of our other 
vendors so that, when they do have an update that is rolling 
out, so that interface could be more in line or more friendly 
to connecting with WellHive would be significant or providing 
some sort of an appropriation to our critical access hospital 
partners so that they can--so that they do not have to, they 
are not burdened with, with some of that extra cost.
    Then some of it is just good old-fashioned awareness and 
getting out. We spend an awful lot of time--I live on the 
eastern side of the State. We will make this 7, 8-hour trek 
into our northwest panhandle often to work with teams, and some 
of it is just that, that level of elbow grease that needs to go 
in to making sure that programs that really matter get out to 
our communities.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Okay. That is helpful.
    Mr. Hansen. I also wanted to--I really loved your idea on 
the quality initiatives, and that is something that we are 
starting to look at in Nebraska to make sure that we are doing 
that apples-to-apples, and we are working to align the VA 
ambulatory quality measures with some of those that are seen--
that we are used to on the critical access hospital side. I am 
learning a lot, actually, through the questions that you are 
providing, which I appreciate.
    Ms. Budzinski. Thank you very much. Thank you. Can I go 
back to the VA and Dr. Arfons. Yes. In 2023, I wanted to 
highlight, committee staff was able to visit WellHive's pilot 
sites in Orlando and Columbia and saw two different pictures. 
Looking at data provided to this committee last fall, it seems 
that the success and use of this tool still varies from 
facility to facility. How do you account for that variation?
    Dr. Arfons. With any diffusion of innovation, you are going 
to see a different range of adopters. This is not a surprise. 
We see this with any initiative that we have.
    In terms of Columbia, they were, I think, a little bit 
quicker out of the gate. Orlando has been more slow and steady 
and continues to evolve and improve.
    As Mr. Faraji mentioned, they both answered in the 
affirmative the intent of our pilot questions and have been 
helpful.
    They also then have very different veteran populations, 
community network needs that they are working toward, and so it 
does not surprise us. We obviously work toward standardization 
as much as we can but then have to adapt to the unique facility 
needs with their unique veteran populations.
    Ms. Budzinski. Just following up--you are leading into my 
next question--one of the things, I think, was observed is that 
the success--or increased success--was really seen when VA 
leadership and its employees are adequately engaged in the 
efforts to recruit Community Care practitioners onto the tool.
    As the VA plans to roll out this tool across more VISNs, 
how do you hope to standardize? You mentioned standardization. 
How do you hope to standardize these approaches and support the 
recruitment of Community Care providers?
    Dr. Arfons. One lesson that has been important over the 
past several months, I think, is the importance of having 
medical center directors engaged. It is important because, not 
only are medical center directors leaders within VA, but they 
also are healthcare leaders within their communities. Many of 
them have trusted relationships already with community 
providers. When we approach them--to answer Congressman 
Luttrell's question, VA does feel it is our responsibility to 
enroll providers--it helps that they have a trusted voice 
encouraging them to explore the opportunities for EPS.
    Also, medical center directors are setting the culture and 
the strategy and the tone for their medical centers, and their 
staff very much look to them to set that direction. Moving 
forward, I think this will be, continues to be a key piece of 
the success of EPS moving forward.
    Ms. Budzinski. Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you.
    Mr. Luttrell.
    Mr. Luttrell. Mr. Faraji, how many VA facilities do you 
have on your list to incorporate your software with? You could 
say all of them, but I was curious if you have a number because 
we are putting those numbers together right now, and I think it 
is 1,380 VA facilities across the country.
    Mr. Faraji. Actual VA facilities?
    Mr. Luttrell. Yes, sir. We are in the VA----
    Mr. Faraji. I am sorry. I do not understand. Could you 
clarify?
    Mr. Luttrell. Well, I mean, you are implementing yourself 
in the VA hospitals, Community-Based Outpatient Clinics (CBOCs) 
and everything; correct? It is not just the main hospitals. It 
is all in the rural little CBOCs and satellite campuses?
    Mr. Faraji. From my awareness, it is specific to the actual 
VA medical centers.
    Mr. Luttrell. Just the big ones?
    Mr. Faraji. The Community Care, right, which encompasses 
all----
    Mr. Luttrell. That is just 172.
    Mr. Faraji. That is correct.
    Mr. Luttrell. Just 172. My question is, if I was to give 
you--how do you--I need to bring that back. Off the record. I 
misspoke. I do not know how to do that officially. Okay. If you 
had the opportunity to jump in front of--or jump inside of 172 
facilities and I said ``go,'' could you do that right now?
    Mr. Faraji. Thank you for your question. What we found, and 
Dr. Arfons touched on this, is that every site we are learning 
every time.
    Mr. Luttrell. I know. I got it. Every one of them is 
different.
    Mr. Faraji. No, but it is a lessons learned because those 
lessons learned compound, and we are able to take that to the 
next site, into the next site. What you are seeing is much more 
speed behind these rollouts because of everything that we have 
been able to do, and the preparation.
    For us, as far as the technology and making sure that we 
have everything, the answer is yes. There is other things that 
have to move behind the scenes, and that is what Dr. Arfons is 
alluding to with the different people and the training and the 
providers.
    Mr. Luttrell. What is the--give me a--can I get a left and 
right flank on, hey, like if I was to say, ``You are coming 
down into Houston into DeBakey, ready, go,'' how long would it 
take to implement your system inside the DeBakey Medical 
Center?
    Mr. Faraji. We would need to look at the site. We would 
have conversations. Let me back up a second. When we go to 
these sites, we are having conversations with the chiefs of 
Community Care and the staff to understand the data: What are 
the referrals? Who are the providers that they refer out to----
    Mr. Luttrell. This is specifically on scheduling alone, 
right?
    Mr. Faraji. That is right. Yes. We need this information 
because it is important because what we do is we then take that 
information and go back to see what we already have in network, 
and then who do we need to bring on board? Right. To then go 
reach out to medical centers and----
    Mr. Luttrell. Bring on board, you mean the Community Care 
providers?
    Mr. Faraji. That is right. Correct. The Community Care 
providers.
    Mr. Luttrell. Would not it be better if you found a 
facility that did not have that many Community Care providers 
and implemented your system because then the spiderweb is not 
that big, instead of going into a facility that has got 
thousands of them?
    Mr. Faraji. Again, it varies per site.
    Mr. Luttrell. Quit saying that. Okay. I got it. All right. 
It varies. I got it a hundred percent. Go ahead.
    Mr. Faraji. Once we--once we have that information at our 
fingertips, then we are then off to the races, then, at that 
point. The VA is doing their thing for training, getting the 
site up to speed, and we are bringing on providers daily.
    Some of them are large health systems. Some of them are the 
small mom and pops that we are bringing online, and those grids 
start digitally connecting.
    In between that, because we have an integration into the 
provider profile management system, which is the main system 
that provides the credentialing of all of the Community Care 
providers, we are able to see all 1.4 million providers inside 
of----
    Mr. Luttrell. You have to--Doctor, you said it takes, let 
us just say an afternoon to train whomever on the system, and 
then you have to train all the Community Care providers on the 
system as well?
    Mr. Faraji. No. No. No. There is no training on the 
Community Care providers. They are going to keep using the EHR 
that they have always been using.
    Mr. Luttrell. Okay. I really have no idea why we are not in 
every single facility right now. This is me looking back at you 
waiting for somebody to say something.
    Mr. Hansen. Congressman, I can maybe provide a little bit 
of insight on this. We have two academic medical centers in 
Nebraska, both are in the onboarding process. One of the 
facilities----
    Mr. Luttrell. What day did that start?
    Mr. Hansen. What day did that start? Started last October.
    Mr. Luttrell. To onboard this?
    Mr. Hansen. It is. With these academic medical centers, the 
complexity is that they have specialists, subspecialists. They 
have--they have layers of bureaucracy on their end as well, and 
it can even vary from medical center.
    We have one medical center that has taken the approach to 
go a full onboard. They are just bringing in--they are doing 
what you are wanting to do. They are applying the gas pedal, 
and they are going to move forward with it.
    Our other academic medical center feels they have some 
unique scheduling protocols in place, and so they are going to 
start with a smaller subset of specialties, like dermatology, 
ophthalmology, physical therapy, where there is high volume and 
less complexity to the schedule, and then scale it up.
    They are trying to use kind of your spiderweb, where they 
are starting with some of those high-volume, high-impact areas 
to relieve backlog in the VA, and then expand out from there.
    For critical access hospitals, it is maybe a--it is a 
slightly simpler process than what we are going to see 
tertiary, where you have got some of your primary care; you 
might have some colonoscopies; you might have some PT; and then 
you have some--maybe you have got a local PT or just medical 
clinic, and they do not have any of the prior authorizations, 
prerequisites to get into that specialty.
    It can vary, and it is somewhat dependent on the partner, 
the community partner that you are working with.
    Mr. Luttrell. Thank you.
    I apologize for going over, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you. I appreciate that.
    I am confused a little bit. Dr. Arfons said it takes, let 
us call it an afternoon, to train a person at the VA to 
integrate--or interface with this system. You are saying it 
will take more than 7 months to onboard. You can birth a human 
in 9 months. I do not know why it takes so long to do that, but 
it slows down the rollout for this if things are taking 9 
months to do it--or 8 months or 7 or however long we are up to 
from last October. That is hardly giving me confidence that we 
are going to be able to expedite this or roll it out in a way 
that will be a meaningful improvement soon.
    Mr. Hansen. Some of those--those were first conversations 
that were taking place. These are when our academic--like in 
the case of our academic medical centers, the first time that 
they are hearing about EPS was last October. Some of those 
challenges were we did not know which--if Nebraska or VISN 23, 
which encompasses Omaha, if that was going to be included in 
the initial rollout. We thought we were. Then we heard that 
there were going to be some budget drawbacks, and then going--
--
    Mr. Barrett. Yes. That is some of the frustration I felt is 
that there were mixed signals sent about this that I think gave 
Community Care providers the belief that maybe this is not 
going to happen; why go through the process of figuring it out 
if it is not actually going to roll out or get used?
    I am hoping, through Dr. Arfons' testimony today, that is 
hopefully put to rest and that there is full confidence going 
forward that we are going to integrate these scheduling things 
in a really expedited fashion or as quickly as possible going 
forward to hopefully alleviate that.
    I had a few more follow-up questions just quickly, too, and 
I do not want my time to expire. Mr. Faraji, does your software 
have the capability of exchange referrals and authorizations 
with Community Care providers?
    Mr. Faraji. Thank you for that question. Currently, right 
now, VA sends these referral authorizations through fax or 
secure email. We have to--WellHive's platform needs to move to 
the next security level, which is high. We just completed our 
Federal Risk and Authorization Management Program (FedRAMP) 
high authorization. We submitted our security assessment to VA. 
They are reviewing it, and that should be completed by fall of 
this year.
    Once that is completed, we are going to take an integral 
part--key steps into going and working with the referrals, and 
so, at the point where the scheduled appointment is booked, we 
will also be including that referral package with the 
appointment.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. The upgraded security, I assume that is 
an industry standard that is pretty clear.
    Mr. Faraji. That is correct. Like the--it is FedRAMP 
certification.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay.
    Mr. Faraji. Yes.
    Mr. Barrett. That is something that is pre-established. You 
are not reinventing the wheel doing that. You are just making 
sure that your protocols are appropriate.
    Mr. Faraji. Correct.
    Mr. Barrett. If that is the case, and maybe this is a 
question for Dr. Arfons--I do not even know if you have the 
answer to this--why does it take us through the fall if this is 
a standardized security measure to get that piece of it done?
    Dr. Arfons. I will just take that for the record back to 
IT.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. Then would the--would, I guess for Mr. 
Hansen, assuming that you could--assuming your security 
protocol is going to pass, because I assume it is a ``if this, 
then that'' kind of thing, Mr. Hansen, would Community Care 
providers like those that you represent benefit from obviously 
upgrading these from a fax or a secured email that is basically 
a PDF of a fax to something that is more electronically 
delivered with the appointment?
    Mr. Hansen. They would. For a lot of our rural providers, 
it just comes down to human capital. Any time that you can 
streamline a process, that is going to help them out.
    Mr. Barrett. Sure. That was an easy one. Thank you. Dr. 
Arfons, does VA have any plans to utilize EPS software to send 
referrals and authorizations to Community Care providers, 
assuming we have the security that meets adequate protocols?
    Dr. Arfons. Yes. We are working with our Office of 
Information Technology (OIT) partners and looking at that 
capability.
    Mr. Barrett. Is that the same process that is used to 
determine the security nature, like where--I get the kink in 
the hose right now is getting the security authorization. Once 
that clears, is there another protocol that needs to be passed, 
or is that the last hurdle?
    Dr. Arfons. There will have to be software integration from 
there of our systems with WellHive.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. How, assuming this security, like let us 
say we start moving that direction because we assume the 
security measures will be passed, are we going to start 
integrating then, or can we start building integration models 
now so that, when the security thing is done, we are already 
partway ready to go?
    Dr. Arfons. IT dictates that. We can take that back for the 
record.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. I would appreciate a little bit of an 
understanding. I think we can walk and chew gum at the same 
time on that and maybe have a little bit of a jump start on 
that. Thank you. Very good.
    I will recognize Ranking Member Budzinski for your closing 
remarks.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Great. I have actually just one quick 
question, and then I am going to move to closing. A question 
just for Mr. Faraji and Dr. Arfons, do you know what percentage 
of Community Care Network providers have shared their schedules 
with WellHive and the VA? Let us start with Mr. Faraji.
    Mr. Faraji. I do not have that number off the top of my 
head, but we could get that for you.
    Ms. Budzinski. Great. Okay. Thank you.
    I do want to say thank you to Chairman Barrett, again, and 
I really do appreciate the witnesses and their testimony today.
    Last week marked the first 100 days of the Trump 
administration, and I do worry that the Department that is now 
less prepared than ever to modernize its service offerings.
    As I had mentioned before, we have focused on all the 
pieces of the puzzle here, not just the technology. As members 
of this committee, we must use our role to ensure that veterans 
have top-of-the-line access wherever they decide to receive 
care.
    We continue this oversight role, and I hope we continue to 
hear of an adequately staffed and funded VA, clarity in the 
referral work flows, relieving these teams and veterans of 
burdensome and prolonged processes, an increase of data being 
returned by community providers, improving the continuity of 
veterans care, and that facilities, both VA and those in 
community, have the resources they need to implement the 
technology at hand.
    I look forward to performing this work with Chairman 
Barrett, our witnesses today, and, most importantly, hand-in-
hand with our veterans.
    Thank you so much, and I yield back.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you, Ranking Member Budzinski.
    Thank you to the members for your presence today. I 
appreciate that.
    To our folks here testifying as well, thank you for your 
participation in answering so many questions.
    I want to thank you all for appearing today to provide your 
expertise on the EPS program. What we heard today was clear, 
the technology to modernize VA scheduling exists, and it is a 
proven tool to fix one of the most frustrating barriers 
veterans face, getting timely access to care. I mentioned this 
even from a personal experience I had very recently.
    This system is simpler It is easier, and it gets veterans 
scheduled with their doctors faster and with fewer obstacles, 
and it is making a real difference for veterans of VA staff 
where it is available. Despite the success in the data, only a 
fraction of veterans benefit from it, and it appears that there 
is not going to be a substantial adoption of this for quite 
some time. Only a fraction of VA medical centers are using it.
    If VA is serious about improving access to care and 
fulfilling the MISSION Act, then it must make EPS a priority 
and expand it to the rest of the VA. I think that we can look 
at this as less of a competitive thing between VA and Community 
Care and more of a comprehensive and collaborative effort to 
provide care for veterans where they are that suits them best.
    Every day VA continues to rely on its outdated scheduling 
process, thousands of veterans are stuck navigating a maze of 
phones calls and missed opportunities, and thousands of 
veterans are forced to wait too long for the care they have 
already earned and received and been referred for. VA simply 
cannot continue with the status quo when the technology 
solution exists that can make a meaningful lasting impact on 
veterans' healthcare.
    Thank you again for your participation in today's hearing. 
I look forward to working with the Trump administration to make 
EPS a success for our veterans with each of the stakeholders 
that are here today as well.
    I ask unanimous consent that all members have 5 legislative 
days to revise and extend their remarks and include extraneous 
material.
    Without objection, so ordered.
    This hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 4:25 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
    
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                         A  P  P  E  N  D  I  X

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                    Prepared Statements of Witnesses

                              ----------                              


                   Prepared Statement of Lisa Arfons

    Good afternoon, Chairman Barrett, Ranking Member Budzinski, and 
distinguished Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the 
opportunity to testify on VA's work to enhance Veterans' experiences 
through modern and efficient scheduling technologies. My testimony 
today will focus on the External Provider Scheduling (EPS) Program, its 
status, challenges, and future plans for expansion and improvement.

Introduction

    Since the enactment of the VA Maintaining Internal Systems and 
Strengthening Integrated Outside Networks Act of 2018 (P.L. 15-182), VA 
has significantly expanded Veteran access to health care. The Veterans 
Community Care Program, launched on June 6, 2019, has been a 
cornerstone of this effort. As of March 2025, we have provided over 
39.6 million community care referrals to more than 5.4 million 
Veterans. To improve service delivery, VA is focusing on innovations 
that put Veterans first. EPS is an initiative aimed at improving the 
Veteran's experience and access to care through enhanced scheduling 
technology.
    Last year, Veterans faced unnecessary delays in accessing community 
care due to the Biden Administration's decision to pause the 
implementation plan of the EPS program. This slowdown limited Veterans' 
ability to quickly and easily schedule appointments with community 
providers. Recognizing the urgent need to put Veterans first, this 
Administration, under the leadership of Secretary Collins, reenforced 
the need of EPS implementation quickly. In just the first 100 days, we 
have expanded EPS from 16 sites last fall to 34 sites as of today, 
increasing access, and we are rapidly bringing more facilities and 
providers online. This renewed commitment reflects VA's belief that 
Veterans deserve a streamlined, reliable experience when accessing 
community care. EPS represents a critical step toward ensuring timely 
access to high-quality health care choices that Veterans deserve.
    In addition to expanding EPS in the community care setting, VA 
recognizes the critical need to provide Veterans with clear, complete, 
and comparable information about their care options, whether within VA 
or in the community. To support this goal, VA is exploring EPS 
capabilities for both VA direct care and Community Care scheduling. 
This furthers the Secretary's commitment to delivering on the health 
care choices and transparency promised to Veterans under the VA MISSION 
Act.

Overview of EPS

    EPS allows VA staff to schedule Veterans directly into available 
community care provider appointment slots through a single user 
interface, thereby more seamlessly connecting Veterans to appointments 
with community care providers. This single user interface displays 
provider availability information in one place and reduces the back-
and-forth communication that often contributes to delays in care. By 
providing detailed information about who, where, how, and when care is 
available, EPS plays a vital role in helping Veterans make timely and 
informed decisions about their health care. Early examples demonstrate 
key benefits of using EPS. Some of these benefits include the 
following:

      Enhanced Veteran Experience: EPS improves access to high-
quality care, minimizing the challenges Veterans face when scheduling 
multiple appointments. It ensures that appointments are made 
efficiently, taking Veterans' preferences into account. VA Schedulers 
using the EPS system are booking appointments in less than 10 minutes, 
compared to up to an hour without EPS.

      Streamlined Coordination: Community Care providers and VA 
staff have real-time updates on rescheduled, canceled, or completed 
appointments thereby eliminating the need to call and verify status 
with the providers or Veteran.

      Strengthened Partnerships: The EPS system improves 
coordination between VA and Community Care providers.

Implementation Status

    As of April 18, 2025, EPS has been successfully implemented in 34 
VA medical centers (VAMC) with 20 additional VAMCs scheduled to go-live 
by the end of Fiscal Year 2025. Since October 2024, EPS has onboarded 
over 3,300 provider services. This is more than 60 percent of total 
provider services since the pilot began in December 2021.
    Over 5,200 provider services are active in EPS across over 60 
specialties, including primary care, mental/behavioral health, 
dermatology, optometry, chiropractic care, dental, and orthopedics. EPS 
continues to onboard new provider services at a rate of over 100 per 
week, prioritizing based on initial site feedback and referral data.

Training

    To realize the full capability of EPS, we have recognized the need 
for better change management and training. VA developed an online 
training process enabling VA staff to take the training, as needed. The 
EPS team provides office hours and immediate live support for users who 
require assistance.

Enhancing Provider Collaboration

    Implementing EPS has not been without its challenges, particularly 
in onboarding Community Care providers. Many providers are 
understandably concerned about how new systems will integrate with 
their existing workflows and whether additional training or resources 
will be required. We have addressed these concerns through targeted 
solutions such as:

      Efficiency at no cost to providers: EPS eliminates the 
need for phone calls and waiting for authorization numbers.

      Control and compatibility: Providers retain control over 
their scheduling system visibility to VA, ensuring no electronic health 
record information is shared except for appointment availability. This 
integration is designed to be hassle-free, requiring no additional 
staff training.

      Immediate authorization: Referral authorization numbers 
are provided at the time of appointment scheduling, simplifying 
administrative tasks and reducing the workload for provider staff.

    These features save providers significant time and allow them to 
maintain their existing systems without incurring any upfront or 
ongoing fees, making it both an attractive and practical solution. This 
approach not only benefits the providers but also puts Veterans first 
by reducing wait times and eliminating barriers to accessing the health 
care choices they have earned.

Conclusion

    In conclusion, the EPS Program is no longer an experiment - it is a 
proven tool that is fundamentally transforming the way Veterans access 
care. Thanks to the renewed focus and leadership of the Trump 
Administration, EPS is now reaching more Veterans, at more sites, 
faster than ever before. We are committed to building on this momentum, 
expanding EPS nationally, and continuing to refine the system based on 
real-world feedback from Veterans, VA staff, and community providers.
    By removing barriers, minimizing delays, and putting Veterans at 
the center of the scheduling process, EPS helps deliver the timely, 
high-quality care Veterans deserve. We look forward to working with the 
Subcommittee to ensure continued improvements in the scheduling process 
and overall care for Veterans. Thank you for the opportunity to testify 
today. We are prepared to answer any questions you may have.

                   Prepared Statement of Chris Faraji
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                    Prepared Statement of Jed Hansen
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