[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                    REGULATORY HARM OR HARMONIZATION? EXAM-
                     INING THE OPPORTUNITY TO IMPROVE THE 
                     CYBER REGULATORY REGIME

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                            SUBCOMMITTEE ON
                    CYBERSECURITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE
                               PROTECTION

                                 OF THE

                     COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                             MARCH 11, 2025

                               __________

                            Serial No. 119-7

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Homeland Security
                                     

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        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                               __________
                               
                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
60-983 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
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                     COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

                 Mark E. Green, MD, Tennessee, Chairman
Michael T. McCaul, Texas, Vice       Bennie G. Thompson, Mississippi, 
    Chair                                Ranking Member
Clay Higgins, Louisiana              Eric Swalwell, California
Michael Guest, Mississippi           J. Luis Correa, California
Carlos A. Gimenez, Florida           Shri Thanedar, Michigan
August Pfluger, Texas                Seth Magaziner, Rhode Island
Andrew R. Garbarino, New York        Daniel S. Goldman, New York
Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia      Delia C. Ramirez, Illinois
Tony Gonzales, Texas                 Timothy M. Kennedy, New York
Morgan Luttrell, Texas               LaMonica McIver, New Jersey
Dale W. Strong, Alabama              Julie Johnson, Texas, Vice Ranking 
Josh Brecheen, Oklahoma                  Member
Elijah Crane, Arizona                Pablo Jose Hernandez, Puerto Rico
Andrew Ogles, Tennessee              Nellie Pou, New Jersey
Sheri Biggs, South Carolina          Troy A. Carter, Louisiana
Gabe Evans, Colorado                 Robert Garcia, California
Ryan Mackenzie, Pennsylvania         Vacant
Brad Knott, North Carolina
                    Eric Heighberger, Staff Director
                  Hope Goins, Minority Staff Director
                       Sean Corcoran, Chief Clerk
                                 ------                                

      SUBCOMMITTEE ON CYBERSECURITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE PROTECTION

                Andrew R. Garbarino, New York, Chairman
Clay Higgins, Louisiana              Eric Swalwell, California, Ranking 
Carlos A. Gimenez, Florida               Member
Morgan Luttrell, Texas               Seth Magaziner, Rhode Island
Andrew Ogles, Tennessee              LaMonica McIver, New Jersey
Mark E. Green, MD, Tennessee (ex     Vacant
    officio)                         Bennie G. Thompson, Mississippi 
                                         (ex officio)
             Alexandra Seymour, Subcommittee Staff Director
           Moira Bergin, Minority Subcommittee Staff Director
                           
                           C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

                               Statements

The Honorable Andrew R. Garbarino, a Representative in Congress 
  From the State of New York, and Chairman, Subcommittee on 
  Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Protection:
  Oral Statement.................................................     1
  Prepared Statement.............................................     2
The Honorable Eric Swalwell, a Representative in Congress From 
  the State of California, and Ranking Member, Subcommittee on 
  Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Protection:
  Oral Statement.................................................     3
  Prepared Statement.............................................     5
The Honorable Mark E. Green, MD, a Representative in Congress 
  From the State of Tennessee, and Chairman, Committee on 
  Homeland Security..............................................     6
The Honorable Bennie G. Thompson, a Representative in Congress 
  From the State of Mississippi, and Ranking Member, Committee on 
  Homeland Security:
  Prepared Statement.............................................     7

                               Witnesses

Mr. Scott I. Aaronson, Senior Vice President, Energy Security & 
  Industry Operations, Edison Electric Institute:
  Oral Statement.................................................     9
  Prepared Statement.............................................    11
Ms. Heather Hogsett, Senior Vice President and Deputy Head of 
  BITS, Bank Policy Institute:
  Oral Statement.................................................    14
  Prepared Statement.............................................    16
Mr. Robert Mayer, Senior Vice President, Cybersecurity and 
  Innovation, USTelecom, The Broadband Association:
  Oral Statement.................................................    20
  Prepared Statement.............................................    21
Mr. Ari Schwartz, Coordinator, Cybersecurity Coalition:
  Oral Statement.................................................    23
  Prepared Statement.............................................    25

                               Appendix I

Statement of CTIA--The Wireless Association......................    49

                              Appendix II

Questions From Chairman Andrew R. Garbarino for Scott I. Aaronson    55
Questions From Chairman Andrew R. Garbarino for Heather Hogsett..    57
Questions From Chairman Andrew R. Garbarino for Robert Mayer.....    59
Questions From Chairman Andrew R. Garbarino for Ari Schwartz.....    62

 
REGULATORY HARM OR HARMONIZATION? EXAMINING THE OPPORTUNITY TO IMPROVE 
                      THE CYBER REGULATORY REGIME

                              ----------                              


                        Tuesday, March 11, 2025

             U.S. House of Representatives,
                    Committee on Homeland Security,
                         Subcommittee on Cybersecurity and 
                                 Infrastructure Protection,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:08 a.m., in 
room 310, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Andrew R. 
Garbarino (Chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Garbarino, Higgins, Gimenez, 
Ogles, Green (ex officio), Swalwell, Magaziner, McIver, Clarke, 
and Hernandez.
    Mr. Garbarino. The Committee on Homeland Security will come 
to order.
    Without objection, the Chair may declare the committee in 
recess at any point.
    Without objection, the gentlewoman from New York, Ms. 
Clarke, and the gentleman from Puerto Rico, Mr. Hernandez, are 
permitted to sit on the dais and ask questions of the 
witnesses.
    The purpose of this hearing is to evaluate the 
effectiveness of the Federal cyber regulatory regime and to 
identify opportunities to harmonize cyber regulations across 
the Federal Government. Specifically, we will examine the 
challenges that private-sector owners and operators of critical 
regulatory--of critical infrastructure face while navigating 
cyber regulatory regime, including the potential impact of the 
final CIRCIA rule if it does not meet Congressional intent.
    I now recognize myself for an opening statement.
    Good morning. I am honored to serve as Chairman of this 
subcommittee again in the 119th Congress.
    Ranking Member Swalwell, it's great to serve alongside you 
for another term.
    I'd also like to welcome all of our Members returning and 
the new ones that are here. I'm looking forward to working with 
all of you and to making this a productive Congress.
    As cyber threats to information technology and operational 
technology increase, we must work hard to ensure cybersecurity 
is front and center on Congress' agenda. Until we change our 
cybersecurity posture, we'll continue to see rogue nation-state 
actors target our Nation's critical infrastructure. In that 
spirit, I am pleased to kick off this Congress with a 
bipartisan priority that is vital to our Nation's security, 
regulatory harmonization.
    For too long we have talked about the cumbersome nature of 
cyber regulatory regime without seeing the changes necessary to 
solve it. In fact, the Biden administration tried to add more 
regulations on this sector and sectors such as health care and 
water. While it is important for the Federal Government to work 
with those sectors that are not as cyber mature, more 
regulation is not the answer. With over 50 regulations at the 
Federal level alone, it is time to streamline requirements to 
ensure they promote useful, actionable, and reasonable 
information sharing within the time frame requested.
    When organizations face their most vulnerable moment, they 
should only be thinking about one thing: Securing their 
networks. Hours of duplicative compliance tasks and hundreds of 
thousands of dollars invested to navigate the landscape must 
come to an end. With the beginning of the new administration, 
we have an opportunity to reset the regulatory regime once and 
for all.
    In 2022, Congress passed landmark legislation to streamline 
cyber incident reporting. The Cyber Incident Reporting for 
Critical Infrastructure Act of 2022, or CIRCIA, has directed 
CISA to develop regulations to set an acceptable standard for 
cyber incident reporting across all 16 critical infrastructure 
sectors.
    Unfortunately, as many of today's witnesses reinforced last 
year, the scope of the proposed CIRCIA rule went far beyond 
Congressional intent. Knowing that the deadline for the final 
rule is approaching, we will dig into the value of CIRCIA and 
what the future of the rule should look like. This new 
administration presents an opportunity to get cyber incident 
reporting right. We should seize it.
    Beyond CIRCIA, different regulatory agencies have imposed 
rules that directly contradict Congressional intent with 
CIRCIA. Securities and Exchange Commission's rules on 
cybersecurity risk management, strategy, governance, and 
incidents disclosure are a perfect example of how rulemaking 
should not be done--that is without buy-in from their key 
stakeholders, industry, and Congress.
    As we strive for regulatory harmonization, collaboration 
across the public and private sector is vital. We cannot allow 
malicious cyber actors to get ahead of us because paperwork 
holds us back from effective cyber risk management, mitigation, 
and response. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses 
about the steps we take to finally--we can take to finally 
achieve regulatory harmonization.
    [The statement of Chairman Garbarino follows:]
               Statement of Chairman Andrew R. Garbarino
                             March 11, 2024
    Good morning.
    I am honored to serve as Chairman of this subcommittee again in the 
119th Congress. Ranking Member Swalwell, it is great to serve alongside 
you for another term. I'd also like to welcome all our Members, 
returning and new. I'm looking forward to working with all of you, and 
to making this a productive Congress.
    As cyber threats from nation-state and criminal actors to 
information technology (IT) and operational technology (OT) increase, 
we must work hard to ensure cybersecurity is front and center on 
Congress' agenda. Until we change our cybersecurity posture, we will 
keep hearing about the Typhoons--including new ones that will 
inevitably emerge.
    In that spirit, I am pleased to kick off the Congress with a 
bipartisan priority that is vital to our Nation's security: regulatory 
harmonization.
    For too long, we have talked about the cumbersome nature of the 
cyber regulatory regime without seeing the changes necessary to solve 
it. In fact, the Biden administration tried to add more regulations on 
sectors such as health care and water. Some sectors admittedly have a 
more mature cybersecurity posture than others. While it is important 
for the Federal Government to work with those entities, more regulation 
is not the answer. With over 50 regulations at the Federal level alone, 
it is time to streamline requirements to ensure they provide 
information that is useful, actionable, and reasonable within the time 
frame requested.
    When organizations face their most vulnerable moment, they should 
only be thinking about one thing: securing their networks. Hours of 
duplicative compliance tasks and hundreds of thousands of dollars 
invested to navigate the landscape must come to an end. With President 
Trump's mandate to increase Government efficiency and reduce regulatory 
burden, we have an opportunity to reset the regulatory regime once and 
for all.
    In 2022, Congress passed landmark legislation to streamline cyber 
incident reporting. The Cyber Incident Reporting for Critical 
Infrastructure Act of 2022, or CIRCIA, directed CISA to develop 
regulations to set an acceptable standard for cyber incident reporting 
across all 16 critical infrastructure sectors.
    Unfortunately, as many of today's witnesses reinforced last year, 
the scope of the proposed CIRCIA rule went far beyond Congressional 
intent. Knowing that the deadline for the final rule is approaching, we 
will dig into the value of CIRCIA and what the future of the rule 
should look like. This new administration presents an opportunity to 
get cyber incident reporting right. We should seize it.
    Beyond CIRCIA, different regulatory agencies have imposed rules 
that directly contradict Congressional intent with CIRCIA. The SEC 
rules on Cybersecurity Risk Management, Strategy, Governance, and 
Incident Disclosure are a perfect example of how rulemaking should not 
be done--that is, without buy-in from their key stakeholders: industry 
and Congress.
    As we strive for regulatory harmonization, collaboration across the 
public and private sectors is vital. We cannot allow malicious cyber 
actors to get ahead of us because paperwork holds us back from 
effective cyber risk management, mitigation, and response.
    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses about the steps we can 
take to finally achieve regulatory harmonization.

    Mr. Garbarino. I now recognize the Ranking Member for an 
opening statement.
    Mr. Swalwell. I thank the Chairman, and excited to begin 
this new Congress, again, with the Chairman. It's not a great 
place to be in the Minority, but if you have a Chairman like 
Mr. Garbarino on your subcommittee, it's a great place to get 
things done, and that's our mission here is to get things done 
for the good of our constituents and the security of the people 
and companies we represent.
    This first hearing is focused on a bipartisan priority, 
identifying opportunities to improve implementation of the 
Cyber Incident Reporting for Critical Infrastructure Act, 
CIRCIA, and the need to harmonize cyber regulations.
    Before I begin though, I did want to take a moment to 
recognize and express my condolences to the family, friends, 
and constituents of Congressman Sylvester Turner, who passed 
away last week. He was a Member of this subcommittee, and his 
passion for cybersecurity, whether it was as the mayor of one 
of America's largest cities in Houston, that was clear also as 
a Member of Congress serving on a committee that works on that, 
and it was clear during his first 2 full committee hearings 
last month. We'll miss his contributions that he made and 
would've made to this subcommittee.
    Turning to the subject of today's hearing, I agree that 
compliance costs can outweigh the security benefit of 
regulations when compliance with duplicative regulations cuts 
into investment and security. We should not be imposing 
regulations for the sake of imposing regulations. Security 
should be designed to achieve outcomes that are proven to 
reduce risk and improve resilience and security.
    Toward that end, I am pleased to support CIRCIA because it 
addressed a concrete security gap and will improve the 
Government's ability to detect and disrupt malicious cyber 
activity. It also put in place a framework that ensures covered 
entities would not need to report the same cyber incidents 
multiple times to multiple regulators. If a hacker gets into a 
bank or energy company, we want them to focus on eradicating 
the threat as quickly as possible, not huddling the lawyers and 
compliance experts. They should be fixing the problem and 
reestablishing their services.
    I am troubled that the proposed rule does not incorporate 
the feedback that the private sector provided during the RFI 
process. Congress put CISA in charge of the cyber incident 
reporting rule because it has a record of working 
collaboratively with the private sector, and our intent was 
that CISA would engage the private sector to develop a workable 
rule.
    Together with Ranking Member Thompson and my colleague 
Congresswoman Clarke, I submitted comments on the proposed rule 
urging CISA to more carefully scope the entities, incidents, 
and information that must be reported. I've also called on CISA 
to establish an ex parte process to facilitate on-going 
engagements with the prior--with the private sector.
    With the fall 2025 deadline for issuing a final rule 
looming, I urge CISA to work quickly to reengage with the 
private sector and refine the scope of this rule. There are 
also 3 key pieces of cybersecurity legislation that I urge this 
committee to pass as quickly as possible. First, we must 
authorize the Joint Cyber Defense Collaborative, CISA's 
operational and collaboration hub. Formal authorization of the 
JCDC will provide much-needed transparency regarding who can be 
a member and the activities JCDC takes on. We passed this in a 
bipartisan manner last Congress with support of the Chairman of 
the whole committee, and I hope that authorization this 
Congress will restore trust among JCDC participants and focus 
JCDC on the activities most likely to drive security benefits.
    Relatedly, the Cyber Information Sharing Act of 2015 is set 
to expire at the end of September. The bill is the foundational 
collaboration between the Government and the private sector, 
and it must be reauthorized.
    As it relates to CISA and some of the firings that we've 
seen there, I want to make sure that we get rid of waste, 
fraud, and abuse. The Government should be efficient and not 
waste your money. That is a priority of mine; it's a priority 
of most of my colleagues. However, we must be especially 
careful when any cut goes to public safety, national security, 
or cybersecurity, because we know that we are more vulnerable 
than ever to a cyber attack, and we want to make sure that we 
have the best folks on guard working hand-in-hand with the 
private sector to make sure we're best protected.
    Finally, State and local cybersecurity grant programs will 
expire on September 30. The grant program has helped State and 
local governments across the country improve their ability to 
defend against and become resilient to sophisticated cyber 
attacks from our adversaries and other criminals.
    Again, I thank my colleagues for their commitment to moving 
the ball forward on cybersecurity, and I look forward to 
working with each of you and our witnesses to do that.
    Mr. Chairman, again, I'm looking forward to this Congress 
and what we can do together, and this is an appropriate way to 
kick off this subcommittee, and I yield back.
    [The statement of Ranking Member Swalwell follows:]
               Statement of Ranking Member Eric Swalwell
                             March 11, 2025
    I'm glad our subcommittee's first hearing of the Congress is 
focused on a bipartisan priority: identifying opportunities to improve 
implementation of the Cyber Incident Reporting for Critical 
Infrastructure Act (CIRCIA) and the need to harmonize cyber regulations 
more broadly.
    But before I begin, I would like to take a moment to express my 
condolences to the family, friends, and constituents of Congressman 
Sylvester Turner, who passed away last week. His passion for 
cybersecurity was clear during his participation in the first 2 full 
committee hearings last month, and we will miss the contributions he 
would have made to the subcommittee.
    Turning to the subject of today's hearing, I agree that compliance 
costs can outweigh the security benefit of regulations when compliance 
with duplicative regulations cuts into investments in security. We 
should not be imposing regulations for regulation's sake. Cybersecurity 
regulations should be designed to achieve outcomes that are proven to 
reduce risk and improve security and resilience.
    Toward that end, I was pleased to support CIRCIA because it 
addressed a concrete security gap and will improve the Government's 
ability to detect and disrupt malicious cyber campaigns faster. It also 
put in place a framework to ensure that covered entities would not need 
to report the same cyber incident multiple times to multiple 
regulators.
    If a hacker gets into a bank or energy company, we want them to 
focus on eradicating the threat and getting back up and running. Their 
first step should not be bringing in a team of lawyers and compliance 
experts. It should be fixing the problem and re-establishing their 
services.
    I share the concerns raised by our panelists today regarding the 
scope of the proposed rule that CISA issued last spring. Notably, I was 
troubled that the proposed rule did not incorporate the feedback that 
the private sector provided during the RFI process.
    Congress put CISA in charge of the cyber incident reporting rule 
because it has a record of working collaboratively with the private 
sector, and our intent was that CISA would engage the private sector to 
develop a workable rule.
    Together with Ranking Member Thompson and Congresswoman Clarke, I 
submitted comments on the proposed rule urging CISA to more carefully 
scope the entities, incidents, and information that must be reported.
    I also called on CISA to establish an ex parte process to 
facilitate on-going engagement with the private sector. With the fall 
2025 deadline for issuing a final rule looming, I urge CISA to work 
quickly to re-engage with the private sector and refine the scope of 
the rule.
    The cyber threats we face are evolving too quickly for any 
unnecessary delay. I would like to thank Chairman Garbarino and 
Chairman Green for their focus on improving the Nation's cybersecurity 
posture.
    Toward that end, there are at least 3 key pieces of cybersecurity 
legislation that I urge the committee to begin its work on as soon as 
possible.
    First, we must authorize the Joint Cyber Defense Collaborative, 
CISA's operational collaboration hub. Formal authorization of the JCDC 
will provide much-needed transparency regarding who can be a member of 
JCDC and the activities JCDC takes on.
    Authorization will help restore trust among JCDC participants, 
focus JCDC on the activities most likely to drive security benefits, 
and ensure that it is accountable to both stakeholders and Congress for 
delivering a return on investment. I appreciated Chairman Green's 
support of the legislation last Congress and hope to work with my 
colleagues on a bipartisan basis to refine the bill and broaden support 
for it this Congress.
    Relatedly, the Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act of 2015 is set 
to expire on September 30. The bill is the foundation of operational 
collaboration between the Government and the private sector and it must 
be reauthorized.
    Finally, the State and Local Cybersecurity Grant program will also 
expire on September 30. The grant program has helped State and local 
governments across the country improve their ability to defend against 
and become resilient to sophisticated cyber attacks from our 
adversaries and other cyber criminals. For months, stakeholders have 
asked me to do everything in my power to reauthorize the program and I 
hope my Republican colleagues will support this effort.
    Once again, I thank my colleagues for their commitment to moving 
the ball forward on cybersecurity, and I look forward to working with 
you to do just that.

    Mr. Garbarino. The gentleman yields back.
    I thank--I now recognize the Chairman of the full 
committee, Mr. Green, for an opening statement.
    Mr. Green. Thank you, Chairman Garbarino and Ranking 
Member. Good to see you guys today.
    Today's hearing serves as a crucial opportunity to examine 
the effectiveness of Federal cyber bureaucracy. At a time when 
cyber attacks are growing more frequent and sophisticated, it's 
imperative that our regulatory process governing cyber space is 
strengthened and harmonized. This will promote security and 
cooperation while minimizing cost and confusion.
    Last May, this subcommittee held a hearing focused on 
CIRCIA, Cyber Incident Reporting for Critical Infrastructure 
Act of 2022. CIRCIA, among other things, directed CISA to 
create and implement regulations for cyber incident reporting 
across 16 critical infrastructure sectors. Although Congress 
passed CIRCIA nearly 3 years ago, wide-spread regulatory 
disharmony persists throughout the cyber incident reporting and 
response regime.
    There are now at least 50 cyber incident reporting 
requirements in effect across the Federal Government. These 
regulations are often duplicative and complex, requiring 
private-sector owners and operators to invest significant sums 
into regulatory compliance rather than security. This patchwork 
of conflicting and complex regulations place a significant 
burden on reporting entities.
    Let's be clear, improving our Nation's cyber regulatory 
regime will bolster our Nation's security. Current cyber 
incident reporting regulations require too much of the private 
sector, drawing their attention away from actually securing 
their networks. Federal regulations, like the SEC's public 
cyber disclosure rule, clearly illustrate the urgent need for 
harmonization. This rule in particular is riddled with 
ambiguity and sets constrictive reporting time lines for 
organizations that experience cyber incidents.
    Ambiguous and conflicting standards like the SEC rule are 
allowing compliance to take a priority over security, leaving 
our critical infrastructure more vulnerable to subsequent 
attacks. Injecting consistency and efficiency into the cyber 
regulatory regime is necessary to protect our Nation from 
digital threats to our critical infrastructure. The security of 
our homeland depends on effective cooperation between the 
private and public sectors, and it is our duty to help remove 
any unnecessary barriers to collaboration.
    Since CIRCIA is still in the rule-making process until 
later this year, there is still time to ensure that regulatory 
effectiveness and harmonization are core features of our 
national cyber incident reporting requirements. The final rule 
must not place an undue burden on private-sector entities that 
are critical to our national cyber defense.
    I want to thank our witnesses, Scott Aaronson from Edison 
Electric, Heather Hogsett from Bank Policy Institute, Robert 
Mayer from USTelecom, and Ari Schwartz from the Cybersecurity 
Coalition, for being here today. Most of you have testified 
before during our hearings last May, and each provided 
invaluable insight to this subcommittee. Thank you for being 
here today.
    With President Trump in office, we have a unique 
opportunity to create a common-sense cyber regulatory structure 
that ensures compliance serves its purpose to share actionable 
information with the Federal Government and with each other. As 
nation-state threats rise, we must do all we can to ensure that 
our cyber professionals can focus their precious time and 
attention and resources on securing networks and critical 
infrastructure and not on checking a box. I look forward to 
working with you as we pursue this shared objective. I yield.
    Mr. Garbarino. The Chairman yields back.
    Other Members of the committee are reminded that opening 
statements may be submitted for the record.
    [The statement of Ranking Member Thompson follows:]

             Statement of Ranking Member Bennie G. Thompson
                             March 11, 2025
    Every day, we face efforts by adversaries like China and Russia to 
breach Government and critical infrastructure networks. To combat this 
risk, we need critical infrastructure entities to strategically 
increase their cyber defenses, and we need Government visibility into 
the threats we are facing.
    Experience has demonstrated that a purely voluntary approach to 
cybersecurity is insufficient for today's threat landscape and that 
thoughtful regulations can improve security outcomes. With numerous 
Government agencies having regulatory authority over different critical 
infrastructure sectors, I understand the concerns from the private 
sector that regulations may be duplicative or inconsistent, resulting 
in unnecessarily burdensome compliance efforts.
    Additionally, regulations risk being box-checking exercises rather 
than focusing on improved security outcomes. Therefore, efforts to 
improve cyber regulatory harmonization are important to ensuring 
regulations strengthen security and do not instead distract critical 
infrastructure from their security efforts.
    The most meaningful step Congress has taken in recent years to 
address duplicative cybersecurity regulations was the enactment of the 
Cyber Incident Reporting for Critical Infrastructure Act (CIRCIA) in 
2022. Sponsored by Congresswoman Yvette Clarke, this legislation seeks 
to increase visibility into the current cyber threat landscape, by 
mandating critical infrastructure entities to report substantial cyber 
incidents to CISA. It also seeks to harmonize cyber incident reporting 
requirements by establishing CISA as a central reporting hub that can 
share cyber incident reports with other relevant agencies.
    As I emphasized in comments I submitted to CISA, along with Ranking 
Member Swalwell and Representative Clarke, the proposed rule issued 
last year is overly broad and needs significant refinement in order to 
align with Congress's goals for the program. Additionally, I encourage 
increased engagement with stakeholders so that CISA can fully 
understand their concerns and can maximize the effectiveness of this 
new mandatory cyber incident reporting regime.
    That being said, a final CIRCIA rule has tremendous potential to 
improve the Government's understanding of the cyber threats we face and 
to ultimately reduce the compliance burden on companies by harmonizing 
incident reporting requirements to a new CIRCIA standard.
    By statute, CISA is required to issue a final rule by September of 
this year. It is essential that CISA work expeditiously to issue a 
final rule so that we can begin to see the benefits of CIRCIA 
implementation and so that other agencies can begin work to align their 
incident reporting regimes to CIRCIA's.
    Our adversaries are not pausing their efforts to breach our 
networks, and we cannot afford to pause our efforts to better defend 
them.
    Relatedly, I am deeply concerned by the new administration's anti-
regulatory attitude that risks undermining our security. While there is 
a need to streamline cybersecurity regulations, arbitrary policies that 
require eliminating regulations in order to issue any new ones would 
prevent agencies from responding to the evolving cyber threat 
landscape.
    Instead, agencies must thoughtfully evaluate how to ensure critical 
infrastructure entities have the defenses in place to protect our 
networks and must coordinate efforts to create a more harmonized 
approach. We must avoid a simplistic discussion of more or less 
regulation and instead prioritize implementing policies that maximize 
security outcomes without unnecessary burdens.
    I appreciate the support for CIRCIA from our witnesses, and I look 
forward to their testimony today on how to ensure proper implementation 
and improved regulatory harmonization.

    Mr. Garbarino. I am pleased to have a distinguished panel 
of witnesses before us today. I ask that our witnesses please 
rise and raise their right hand.
    [Witnesses sworn.]
    Mr. Garbarino. Let the record reflect that all the 
witnesses have answered in the affirmative.
    Thank you. Please be seated.
    I would now like to formally introduce our witnesses. Mr. 
Scott Aaronson currently serves as senior vice president for 
energy security and industry operations for the Edison Electric 
Institute. In this role, he focuses on industry security and 
resilience initiatives establishing collaborative partnerships 
between Government and electric companies and across critical 
infrastructure sectors that enhance security for the energy 
sector. In addition to his role at EEI, Scott also serves as 
the Secretary for Electricity Subsector Coordinating Council, 
ESCC.
    Ms. Heather Hogsett is the senior vice president and deputy 
head of BITS, the technology policy division of the Bank Policy 
Institute. In this position she develops and leads initiatives 
on emerging technology security resilience matters facing the 
Nation's largest financial firms. Ms. Hogsett also cochairs the 
policy committee of the Financial Services Sector Coordinating 
Council and is board member of fTLD Registry Services.
    Mr. Robert Mayer is the senior vice president of 
cybersecurity innovation with the USTelecom Association. He is 
responsible for leading cyber and national security policy and 
strategic initiatives. In addition to this role, he serves as 
chairman of the Communications Sector Coordinating Council, 
which represents the broadcast, cable, satellite, wireless, and 
wire line industries in connection with DHS and public/private 
partnership activities across the U.S. Government. He also 
serves as cochair of the Council to Secure the Digital Economy.
    Ari Schwartz currently serves as the coordinator for the 
Cybersecurity Coalition. In this role, he leads consortium of 
cybersecurity companies coordinating the Coalition's advocacy 
and education regarding cybersecurity policies. He also serves 
as the managing director of cybersecurity services for Venable 
where he helps organizations develop and implement 
cybersecurity risk management strategies. He was previously a 
member of the White House National Security Council where he 
served as special assistant to the President and senior 
director for cybersecurity.
    I thank the witnesses for being here today.
    I now recognize Mr. Aaronson for 5 minutes to summarize his 
opening statement.

 STATEMENT OF SCOTT I. AARONSON, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, ENERGY 
   SECURITY & INDUSTRY OPERATIONS, EDISON ELECTRIC INSTITUTE

    Mr. Aaronson. Thank you, Chairman Garbarino and Ranking 
Member Swalwell, Chairman Green, and to all the Members of the 
subcommittee. Appreciate the opportunity to testify today on 
cyber regulatory harmonization and specifically on 
implementation of the Cyber Incident Reporting for Critical 
Infrastructure Act of 2022, or more easily, CIRCIA.
    My name is Scott Aaronson, and as noted, I am senior vice 
president for energy security and industry operations at the 
Edison Electric Institute. As you know, EEI is the trade 
association representing 250 million--companies that provide 
electricity to nearly 250 million Americans operating in all 50 
States and the District of Columbia.
    As I testified last May, EEI and its members wholly endorse 
the policy objectives underpinning CIRCIA. Incident reporting 
can help industry and our Government partners identify threats, 
see patterns, set policies, and prioritize risks to better 
protect critical infrastructure. CIRCIA is an important law 
with an important goal of identifying and mitigating cyber 
risks across all sectors of the economy, and I appreciate this 
committee's leadership in shepherding this effort these last 
several years.
    When CIRCIA was enacted, Congress emphasized that the 
legislation sought to strike a balance between enabling CISA to 
receive information quickly and allowing the impacted entities 
to respond to an attack without imposing burdensome 
requirements that prioritize paperwork over cyber defense and 
response. Details matter when it comes to how CIRCIA or any new 
cybersecurity policy is implemented. Nearly a year after the 
subcommittee's hearing and my initial testimony on CIRCIA, we 
are in a period of transition with a new administration and a 
new Congress. Change brings opportunity, and I urge this 
subcommittee to leverage this opportunity to help ensure CISA 
is implementing CIRCIA effectively.
    Both my written testimony and comments today focus on 2 
main considerations for Congress when evaluating how best to 
proceed: First, the need to finalize the CIRCIA rule as 
mandated by statute so that electric companies and all critical 
infrastructure operators can benefit from this reporting to 
mitigate attacks and the disruptions they can cause; and, 
second, improving the existing proposal to better align with 
Congressional intent. CISA must do more to meaningfully 
incorporate industry feedback into the final rule to ensure 
reporting is not duplicative and that Government is a resource 
to ingest and protect this sensitive information.
    Following the hearing last May, EEI has continued to engage 
with CISA on CIRCIA. In July 2024, EEI submitted 3 sets of 
comments on the proposed rule. In October 2024, EEI joined more 
than 20 organizations in requesting the establishment of an ex 
parte process to enhance stakeholder engagement and facilitate 
on-going dialog for implementation.
    As I once again testify before you alongside the financial 
services and telecommunications sectors representing some of 
the most sophisticated critical infrastructure operators, our 
collective concern remains that even the most mature sectors 
will be overburdened by the proposed rule if it were to be 
finalized as is. The committee should work with CISA to reduce 
this burden and focus on a few areas for improvement: First, 
conduct oversight regarding the current status of CIRCIA, 
including staffing levels, resource needs, projected time-line 
for final rule completion, and anticipated future engagement 
with industry stakeholders; second, facilitate coordination 
amongst Congressional committees of jurisdiction to align CISA, 
sector risk management agencies, and other regulators, and 
review concerns with existing Federal reporting requirements, 
including the national security concerns associated with the 
public disclosure of incidents as required by the U.S. 
Securities and Exchange Commission rule; third, further clarify 
CISA's role in cybersecurity regulatory harmonization in 
relation to other Federal entities; and, fourth, reauthorize 
the Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act of 2015. Mandatory 
incident reporting and voluntary information sharing both are 
valuable tools in ensuring the cybersecurity of critical 
infrastructure.
    EEI and its members are committed to working with both 
public and private partners across all sectors to comply with 
incident reporting requirements, and cyber regulations more 
broadly, in a way that prioritizes and enhances critical 
infrastructure security. We look forward to working with you 
and CISA to finalize a rule that leverages existing regimes, 
provides meaningful insights to Government and industry, and 
protects sensitive information.
    I'll also take a moment here to note, a little off script, 
that--the news this morning about the Critical Infrastructure 
Partnership Advisory Committee Act being rethought under this 
new leadership at the Department of Homeland Security. It's not 
our place to decide how Government organizes, but I want to 
highlight the value of industry-Government partnership, and 
CIPAC provides extraordinary protections for those partnerships 
and those partnership activities. Nearly 90 percent of critical 
infrastructure is owned by the private sector. It's critical 
because it's critical to national security, and it is critical 
to the life and safety of the communities that we serve. 
Industry and Government have to be working hand in glove, and, 
again, CIPAC provides a really valuable mechanism to do that.
    We appreciate the bipartisan support of this committee in 
ensuring we get CIRCIA right and CIPAC right, and we look 
forward to continuing our collaboration to protect the safety, 
security, well-being of all Americans as we face evolving cyber 
risk. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify, and I 
look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Aaronson follows:]
                Prepared Statement of Scott I. Aaronson
                             March 11, 2025
                              introduction
    Chairman Garbarino, Ranking Member Swalwell, and Members of the 
subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify. My name is 
Scott Aaronson, and I am senior vice president for energy security & 
industry operations at the Edison Electric Institute (EEI). EEI is the 
association that represents all U.S. investor-owned electric companies, 
which together are projected to invest more than $200 billion this year 
to make the energy grid stronger, smarter, cleaner, more dynamic, and 
more secure against all hazards. That includes cyber threats. EEI's 
member companies provide electricity for nearly 250 million Americans 
and operate in all 50 States and the District of Columbia. The electric 
power industry supports more than 7 million jobs in communities across 
the United States. I appreciate your invitation to discuss this 
important topic on their behalf.
    We rely on safe, reliable, affordable, and resilient energy to 
power our daily lives, run our Nation's economy, and support national 
security. Today, demand for electricity is growing at the fastest pace 
in decades, creating challenges for our Nation, as well as 
opportunities to ensure America is home to the industries, 
technologies, and jobs of tomorrow. America's investor-owned electric 
companies are uniquely positioned to meet growing demand and to address 
evolving risks, while working to keep customer bills as low as 
possible.
            eei's comments on cyber regulatory harmonization
    The electricity subsector is a part of the energy sector that is 
designated by National Security Memorandum/NSM-22 as one of the 16 
critical infrastructure sectors whose assets, systems, and networks are 
considered so vital to the United States that their incapacitation or 
destruction would have a debilitating effect on national security, 
economic security, or public health and safety. The reliance of 
virtually all industries on electric power means that all critical 
infrastructure sectors have some dependence on the energy sector.
    The electric subsector employs a risk-based, defense-in-depth 
approach to cybersecurity, including employing a variety of tools and 
strategies that support existing voluntary and mandatory cybersecurity 
standards and regulations, both of which are valuable tools in ensuring 
the cybersecurity of critical infrastructure.
    Throughout the country, investor-owned electric companies are 
meeting and exceeding existing cybersecurity regulations and standards. 
As the Federal Government, States, and private sector work together to 
reduce risk holistically and continue to enhance cybersecurity 
protections of critical infrastructure, it is important that new 
cybersecurity requirements are not duplicative, conflicting, 
overlapping, or inefficient. Regulations that include flexibility and 
support for resilience, response, and recovery can help electric 
companies protect the electric grid. We also need to have strong 
partnerships in place across key sectors and with Government in order 
to maintain the robust cybersecurity posture needed to face the 
realities of potential cyber warfare.
    In November 2023, EEI submitted comments on the Office of the 
National Cyber Director's (ONCD) Request for Information on 
Cybersecurity Regulatory Harmonization.\1\ In summary, EEI's comments 
recognized that cybersecurity regulations must keep pace with the 
evolving threat landscape. Because industry owns, operates, and secures 
the majority of the energy grid, the Federal Government should 
incorporate industry's subject-matter expertise in developing and 
implementing new regulations and streamline processes from which new 
regulations may emerge. EEI's comments also provided examples of 
cybersecurity regulatory conflicts, inconsistencies, redundancies, 
challenges, and opportunities. Some of the key points that EEI made 
include:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Comment from Edison Electric Institute, REGULATIONS.GOV, 
https://www.regula- tions.gov/comment/ONCD-2023-0001-0039 (November 1, 
2023).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Effective communication between Government and industry is 
        paramount to reconciling existing and future cybersecurity 
        regulations;
   Harmonization is needed to address the high costs and 
        inefficiencies caused by existing regulations or standards, or 
        both;
   Harmonization efforts also must address third-party business 
        partners;
   In addition to Federal regulations, EEI members also are 
        subject to (and must comply with) many State, local, Tribal, 
        and territorial cybersecurity requirements and standards; and,
   Additional matters to help harmonize cybersecurity 
        regulations, such as:
     Voluntary information sharing and protection;
     Privacy laws and regulations;
     Information handling;
     Cloud security;
     Contract terms; and,
     Government coordination.
                       eei's engagement on circia
    While the Cyber Incident Reporting for Critical Infrastructure Act 
of 2022 (CIRCIA) is the first Federal cybersecurity reporting 
requirement focused specifically on reporting across all 16 critical 
infrastructure sectors, electric companies have been subject to similar 
Federal reporting for years pursuant to mandates imposed by the Federal 
Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC), the North American Electric 
Reliability Corporation (NERC), the Transportation Security 
Administration (TSA), and the Department of Energy (DOE). These 
existing reporting requirements should be considered by the 
Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) as it 
determines how to implement its own cybersecurity and incident 
reporting regulations.
    In May 2024, EEI had the opportunity to testify during this 
subcommittee's hearing entitled, ``Surveying CIRCIA: Sector 
Perspectives on the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking.''\2\ EEI testified 
that one of our member electric companies estimated they could file 
roughly 65,000 reports through 2033 under the proposed rule--vastly 
exceeding CISA's estimate of more than 200,000 total reports during 
that period. In addition, our testimony highlighted that the Department 
of Homeland Security's (DHS) Cyber Incident Reporting Council (CIRC) 
report on harmonization identified that there currently are 45 
different Federal cyber incident reporting requirements administered by 
22 Federal agencies.\3\ We recommended that CISA thoroughly explore 
opportunities to limit duplicative reporting through the 
``substantially similar'' exception of CIRCIA, and through the 
establishment of CIRCIA Agreements with Federal counterparts. EEI's 
testimony also identified several areas for enhancement of the proposed 
rule, including:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ Statement of Scott Aaronson, CONGRESS.GOV, https://
www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/117105/witnesses/HHRG-118-HM08-
WState-AaronsonS-20240501.pdf (May 1, 2024).
    \3\ Harmonization of Cyber Incident Reporting to the Federal 
Government, DHS.GOV, https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/2023-09/
Harmonization%20of%20Cyber%20Incident%20- 
Reporting%20to%20the%20Federal%20Government.pdf (September 19, 2023).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Scope of substantial cyber incident definition;
   Volume of information requested;
   Workforce burden;
   Data preservation requirements; and
   Protection of information.
    Following the hearing last May, EEI has continued to engage with 
CISA on CIRCIA. In July 2024, EEI submitted 3 sets of comments on the 
proposed rule. The first set of comments was sent on behalf of EEI's 
member electric companies and included feedback that was discussed in 
the May hearing, including:
   CISA's proposed definition of ``substantial cyber incident'' 
        is too broad and therefore must be narrowed in scope;
   The amount of information required under the proposed rule 
        is excessive, significantly increasing a covered entity's 
        reporting burden while often contributing little analytical 
        value;
   CISA must do all it can to protect reported information from 
        threat actors and recognize its own limitations;
   The proposed rule's data-preservation requirements are 
        unduly onerous;
   The proposed rule includes contrasting interpretations of 
        the term ``promptly'' as it relates to the time frame within 
        which covered entities must submit supplemental reports;
   CISA's proposed marking requirements need clarifying; and
   Harmonizing existing and proposed cybersecurity requirements 
        is vital.\4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \4\ Comment submitted by Edison Electric Institute, 
REGULATIONS.GOV, https://www.regulations.gov/comment/CISA-2022-0010-
0452 (July 5, 2024).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The second set of comments was sent on behalf of the communications 
sector, electricity subsector, and financial services sector, 
encouraging CISA to limit the scope and raise the threshold for 
incident reporting by amending the definition of a substantial cyber 
incident in the final rule.\5\ Cosigners of these comments included 
some of the most sophisticated critical infrastructure owners and 
operators across the United States, including the American Bankers 
Association, American Public Power Association, Bank Policy Institute, 
EEI, National Rural Electric Cooperative Association, NTCA--The Rural 
Broadband Association, Securities Industry and Financial Markets 
Association, and USTelecom--The Broadband Association.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ Comment submitted by ABA, APPA, BPI, EEI, NRECA, NTCA, SIFMA, 
USTelecom, REGULATIONS.GOV, https://www.regulations.gov/comment/CISA-
2022-0010-0254 (June 28, 2024).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The third set of comments was sent on behalf of more than 50 
organizations seeking clarification on whether trade associations would 
be considered ``covered entities'' that are required to report cyber 
incidents to CISA under the proposed rule.\6\ The uncertainty around 
the inclusion of associations, which serve members within critical 
infrastructure sectors--but which do not own or operate critical 
infrastructure--in the definition of a covered entity is just one 
example of the ways in which CISA's proposed rule is out of scope. 
These comments were intended to ensure CISA appropriately tailors 
reporting requirements to provide only the most relevant information 
necessary to protect homeland security.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \6\ Comment submitted by National Association of Manufacturers and 
50 other trade associations, REGULATIONS.GOV, https://
www.regulations.gov/comment/CISA-2022-0010-0320 (July 3, 2024).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Also in July 2024, subcommittee Chairman Andrew Garbarino,\7\ 
subcommittee Ranking Member Eric Swalwell, full committee Ranking 
Member Bennie Thompson, Rep. Yvette Clarke,\8\ (July 9, 2024). as well 
as then-Senate Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee 
Chairman Gary Peters,\9\ submitted comments on the proposed rule. The 
feedback provided by Congress suggested that CISA mischaracterized or 
failed to meet the Congressional intent of CIRCIA. Universally, 
Congressional leaders have encouraged CISA to refine the scope of 
definitions and to meaningfully incorporate industry feedback in the 
final rule.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \7\ Comment submitted by Congressman Andrew R. Garbarino, 
REGULATIONS.GOV, https://www.regulations.gov/comment/CISA-2022-0010-
0464 (July 9, 2024).
    \8\ Comment submitted by CHS--Ranking Member Bennie G. Thompson, 
Ranking Member Eric Swalwell, Rep. Yvette Clarke, REGULATIONS.GOV, 
https://www.regulations.gov/comment/CISA-2022-0010-0463.
    \9\ Comment submitted by Homeland Security and Government Affairs 
Committee, REGULATIONS.GOV, https://www.regulations.gov/comment/CISA-
2022-0010-0424 (July 3, 2024).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Finally, in October 2024, EEI, along with more than 20 
organizations, sent a letter to CISA regarding the status of CIRCIA 
implementation, specifically requesting the establishment of an ex 
parte process to enhance stakeholder engagement and facilitate on-going 
dialog for its implementation.\10\ The letter urged CISA to:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \10\ Cross-sector Letter on CIRCIA Implementation, CYBERSCOOP.COM, 
https://cyberscoop.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2024/10/10.29.24-
Cross-sector-Letter-on-CIRCIA-Implementation68.pdf (October 29, 2024).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Adopt an ex parte process for on-going stakeholder 
        engagement;
   Narrow the scope of CIRCIA to enable a positive cycle of 
        information sharing and actionable insights;
   Proactively harmonize CIRCIA implementation with existing 
        regulatory requirements to optimize operational response; and,
   Strengthen safeguards for information and protections 
        against liability to support cyber attack victims and foster 
        candor in reporting.
    To date, CISA has not established an ex parte process and the 
status of the remaining recommendations remains unknown.
       opportunities for circia and recommendations for congress
    Nearly a year after this subcommittee's hearing and EEI's testimony 
on CIRCIA, we are in a period of transition with a new administration 
and a new Congress. Change brings opportunity--and I urge this 
subcommittee to leverage this opportunity to help CISA improve 
implementation of CIRCIA.
    As we stated in our comments on the proposed rule, EEI and its 
members wholly endorse the policy objectives underpinning CIRCIA. 
CIRCIA is an important law with an important goal of identifying and 
mitigating cyber risks across all sectors of the economy, and I 
appreciate this committee's leadership in shepherding this effort 
forward these last several years. When CIRCIA was enacted, Congress 
emphasized that the legislation sought to strike a balance between 
enabling CISA to receive information quickly and allowing the impacted 
entity to respond to an attack without imposing burdensome 
requirements. Details matter when it comes to how CIRCIA, or how any 
mandatory cyber incident reporting regime, is implemented. We need our 
most skilled cyber experts to be spending the majority of their time 
protecting America's critical infrastructure, not filling out 
paperwork.
    When evaluating how best to proceed, I encourage Congress to 
consider that:
   A final CIRCIA rule could help mitigate attacks and the 
        disruptions they cause to American individuals and businesses. 
        Therefore, improving the existing proposal and finalizing the 
        rule by the fall 2025 deadline, as mandated by statute, may be 
        preferable to issuing a new proposed rule. A new proposal may 
        cause confusion and unnecessary delays, as well as increase 
        costly paperwork for both covered entities and the Federal 
        Government.
   CISA faces several challenges in improving the existing 
        proposal to better align with Congressional intent. These 
        include difficulties in collaborating with industry stemming 
        from the lack of an established ex parte process, as well as 
        issues related to natural attrition and staff turnover 
        following the change in administration. Additionally, 
        uncertainty around Congressional appropriations may impact 
        CISA's ability to effectively intake incident reports by the 
        end of 2025.
                      recommendations for congress
    1. Conduct oversight regarding the current status of CIRCIA, 
        including staffing levels, resource needs, the projected time 
        line for final rule completion, and anticipated future 
        engagement with industry stakeholders.
    2. Facilitate coordination amongst Congressional committees of 
        jurisdiction to:
      a. Ensure alignment between CISA, Sector Risk Management 
            Agencies, and other regulators, confirming that CIRCIA 
            Agreements are developed in compliance with the law's 
            substantially similar reporting exception; and
      b. Review concerns with existing Federal reporting requirements, 
            including the national security concerns associated with 
            the public disclosure of incidents required by the U.S. 
            Securities and Exchange Commission.
    3. Further clarify CISA's role in cybersecurity regulatory 
        harmonization in relation to other Federal entities, such as 
        DHS and ONCD; and assess the next steps for the CIRC at DHS, as 
        well as the legislative proposals recommended by CIRC in its 
        harmonization report.
    4. Reauthorize the Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act of 2015 
        (CISA 2015), a pivotal law that encourages and protects cyber 
        threat information sharing between the Government and the 
        private sector. While CISA 2015 is more about information 
        sharing than incident reporting, both are essential to 
        strengthening our collective cyber defenses to meet the 
        evolving threat landscape.
                               conclusion
    Thank you again to this committee for holding today's hearing and 
for your on-going efforts to strengthen America's energy security. 
EEI's member companies are committed to working with Federal partners 
and stakeholders across all sectors to achieve cyber regulatory 
harmonization that prioritizes and enhances U.S. critical 
infrastructure security. We appreciate the bipartisan support of this 
committee in ensuring we get CIRCIA right and we look forward to 
continuing our collaboration to protect the safety, security, and well-
being of all Americans.

    Mr. Garbarino. Thank you, Mr. Aaronson.
    I now recognize Ms. Hogsett for 5 minutes to summarize her 
opening statement.

STATEMENT OF HEATHER HOGSETT, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT AND DEPUTY 
              HEAD OF BITS, BANK POLICY INSTITUTE

    Ms. Hogsett. Thank you. Good morning Chairman Garbarino, 
Ranking Member Swalwell, Chairman Green, and honorable Members 
of the subcommittee. Thank you for inviting me to testify. I'm 
Heather Hogsett, senior vice president and deputy head of BITS, 
the technology division of the Bank Policy Institute.
    BPI is a nonpartisan policy research and advocacy 
organization representing the Nation's leading banks. On behalf 
of BPI members, we greatly appreciate this committee's 
leadership and the opportunity to provide perspective on 
cybersecurity regulations.
    As today's national security threats increasingly target 
vital infrastructure and our economy, it is imperative that 
industry and Government work together to have an awareness of 
cyber incidents and vulnerabilities while ensuring cyber teams 
can focus on day-to-day tasks, responding to incidents when 
they occur, and implementing next-generation technologies. 
Unfortunately, the current state of cyber regulations detract 
from this vital work.
    To support the Nation's security and resilience, we offer a 
few recommendations: First, streamline the reporting of cyber 
incidents to allow cyber teams to focus on response. I 
previously testified before this committee in support of the 
Cyber Incident Reporting for Critical Infrastructure Act, 
CIRCIA, and its goal to create a uniform incident reporting 
system. This would provide CISA with information it needs to 
have broader awareness of cyber threats and the tactics used by 
attackers. Armed with this information, CISA can better assess 
threats and provide early warning to help other entities 
protect themselves.
    We continue to believe that CIRCIA, if properly 
implemented, will play an important role in our collective 
defense. However, as we noted in formal comments last June, it 
is critical that the final rule not extend beyond the 
authorities granted to it under the statute. Bipartisan Members 
of this committee, as well as Senator Peters, submitted 
comments emphasizing a similar view. Your comments were 
enormously helpful in reiterating Congressional intent, and we 
thank you for your continued leadership and engagement.
    We, along with several other financial trade associations, 
recently asked that the current proposal be withdrawn and 
reissued. In particular, we encouraged CISA to significantly 
revise last year's proposed rule to reduce the scope of 
reporting to incidents affecting critical services, focus data 
collection on what companies need to know to prevent contagion, 
and reduce on-going reporting obligations.
    At the same time, Congress and the administration should 
direct other agencies to cease issuance of bespoke reporting 
requirements. Some agencies, such as the Federal banking 
regulators, have incident notification requirements that are 
simple and serve a very specific operational or emergency 
response purpose. These requirements were developed in close 
collaboration with industry and work well in practice. Other 
agencies, however, continue to issue onerous reporting or 
disclosure requirements with different definitions, time-lines, 
and varying data elements that do not improve security 
outcomes.
    One rule in particular is the SEC's requirement to disclose 
material cyber incidents within 4 business days, regardless of 
whether the incident has been contained or remediated. This 
rule should be rescinded as it undermines CIRCIA and 
confidential reporting and unnecessarily complicates incident 
response.
    Second, we encourage Congress and the administration to 
consolidate industry-specific cyber regulations and regulatory 
oversight. This is a particularly acute challenge for financial 
institutions with multiple regulators. A survey of bank chief 
information security officers found that they spent 30 to 50 
percent of their time on compliance and examiner management, 
and their teams can spend 70 percent of their time on those 
functions.
    Firms receive on average 100 requests for information 
leading up to an exam, with anywhere from 75 to 100 
supplemental requests during an exam that can take weeks if not 
months to complete. Once one exam is completed, another 
regulator often comes in to examine the same or a similar 
topic. The current state risks undermining our security, and it 
is time for a reassessment.
    Finally, we urge Congress to reauthorize cyber information 
sharing protections that expire this fall. The Cybersecurity 
Information Sharing Act of 2015 established important liability 
and antitrust protections for entities sharing cyber threat 
information, which were subsequently incorporated into CIRCIA. 
In the decades since their enactment, these protections have 
supported not only the sharing of cyber threat indicators but 
also broader awareness of vulnerabilities, knowledge of threat 
actors and their tactics, and effective defensive measures.
    Recent attacks against public and private infrastructure 
underscore the importance of preserving these protections and 
the important information exchange they facilitate. We greatly 
appreciate this committee's thoughtful approach to these issues 
and stand ready to work with you to protect the security and 
resilience of our Nation's infrastructure. Thank you for the 
opportunity to speak today, and I'm happy to answer any 
questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Hogsett follows:]
                 Prepared Statement of Heather Hogsett
                             March 11, 2025
    Chairman Garbarino, Ranking Member Swalwell, and Honorable Members 
of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to testify. I am Heather 
Hogsett, senior vice president and deputy head of BITS, the technology 
policy division of the Bank Policy Institute.
    BPI is a nonpartisan policy, research, and advocacy organization 
representing the Nation's leading banks. BPI members include universal 
banks, regional banks, and major foreign banks doing business in the 
United States. BITS, our technology policy division, works with our 
member banks as well as insurance, card companies, and market utilities 
on cyber risk management, critical infrastructure protection, fraud 
reduction, regulation, and innovation.
    I also serve as co-chair of the Financial Services Sector 
Coordinating Council Policy Committee. The FSSCC coordinates across the 
financial sector to enhance security and resiliency and to collaborate 
with Government partners such as the U.S. Treasury and the 
Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, as well as financial 
regulatory agencies.
    On behalf of BPI member companies, I appreciate the opportunity to 
provide input on the status of the Cyber Incident Reporting for 
Critical Infrastructure Act, as well as the state of cybersecurity 
regulation, and ways to potentially harmonize existing requirements. 
There is an urgent need to reduce overlapping and duplicative 
regulatory requirements that present considerable challenges for many 
critical infrastructure entities. Financial institutions experience 
these challenges acutely when complying with a multitude of incident 
reporting requirements and during cyber-specific supervisory 
examinations conducted by numerous financial regulatory agencies.
    As the Government surveys the current cyber regulatory landscape in 
search of increased efficiencies, it should prioritize: (1) 
Streamlining cyber incident reporting requirements to allow cyber 
personnel to focus on response efforts; and (2) consolidating cyber 
regulatory requirements and supervision.
                        cyber incident reporting
    To better align incident reporting requirements, Government 
agencies should consider: (1) substantial revisions to CISA's proposed 
rule to implement the Cyber Incident Reporting for Critical 
Infrastructure Act (``CIRCIA''); (2) rescinding the SEC's Cyber 
Incident Disclosure Rule; and (3) directing Federal agencies to stop 
issuing duplicative requirements and instead leverage CIRCIA as 
Congress intended.
Revise the CIRCIA Proposed Rule
    Almost a year ago, I testified before this subcommittee shortly 
after CISA released its proposed rule.\1\ During that hearing, I noted 
our members' concerns that CISA's proposal reflected an overly broad 
reading of the underlying statute and would add significant compliance 
obligations on front-line cyber personnel during the most critical 
incident response phase. As we move closer to the statutory deadline 
for CISA to issue its final rule, our members maintain those same 
concerns.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Surveying CIRCIA: Sector Perspectives on the Notice of Proposed 
Rulemaking Before the Subcomm. on Cybersecurity and Infrastructure 
Protection of the H. Comm. on Homeland Security, 118th Cong. (2024) 
(Statement of Heather Hogsett, Senior Vice President, Technology & Risk 
Strategy for BITS, Bank Policy Institute).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Financial institutions supported CIRCIA as it was being considered 
by Congress because it proposed a uniform incident reporting standard 
for critical infrastructure and sought to enhance CISA's ability to 
combat sophisticated cyber threats. Because CISA's proposal fell short 
of that aspiration, we--along with several other financial trade 
associations--recently reiterated this viewpoint in a letter to 
Department of Homeland Security Secretary Noem and Office of Management 
and Budget Director Vought requesting that they withdraw the current 
proposal and re-issue it more in line with Congressional intent.\2\ 
While the current proposal is too broad in scope, we continue to 
believe that CIRCIA, if properly calibrated, can enhance our collective 
defenses and mitigate threats from foreign adversaries.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ Letter from the American Bankers Assoc., Bank Policy Inst., 
Inst. of Int'l Bankers, & Sec. Industry & Fin. Markets Assoc., to 
Kristi Noem, Secretary, Dep't of Homeland Sec. & Russell T. Vought, 
Director, Office of Mgmt. & Budget (Feb. 28, 2025), https://bpi.com/wp-
content/uploads/2025/02/CIRCIA-Letter-to-Noem-Vought-2.28.25.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    For that enhancement to be most effective, it is also important 
that Congress reauthorize the Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act of 
2015 (``CISA 2015'').\3\ The information, antitrust, and liability 
protections in CISA 2015 are imperative for public-private information 
sharing and provide the legal clarity companies need to share 
information not only with CISA but with other companies across critical 
infrastructure. The protections in CISA 2015 are also incorporated by 
reference in CIRCIA--making their reauthorization all the more 
critical. The expiration of the legal framework provided in the Act 
could substantially disrupt information sharing--leaving us all less 
prepared to confront emerging cyber risks.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ Consolidated Appropriations Act, Pub. L. No. 114-113, Div. N, 
Title I--Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act, 129 Stat. 2935 (2015), 
6 U.S.C.  1501.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    As we noted in our joint financial trades response to CISA's 
proposal last June, it is critical that CISA's final rule not extend 
beyond the authorities granted to it under the statute.\4\ Bipartisan 
Members of this committee, along with Senator Peters, submitted 
comments emphasizing that same view.\5\ These responses were enormously 
helpful for reiterating Congressional intent, and we thank you for your 
leadership.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \4\ American Bankers Assoc., Bank Policy Institute, Institute of 
International Bankers, & Sec. Industry & Financial Markets Assoc., 
Comment Letter on Cyber Incident Reporting for Critical Infrastructure 
Act (CIRCIA) Reporting Requirements (Jun. 28, 2024), https://bpi.com/
wp-content/uploads/2024/06/CIRCIA-Reporting-Requirements-Comment-
Letter.pdf.
    \5\ Representative Andrew Garbarino, Comment Letter on Cyber 
Incident Reporting for Critical Infrastructure Act (CIRCIA) Reporting 
Requirements (Jul. 3, 2024); Representatives Bennie G. Thompson, Yvette 
D. Clarke, & Eric M. Swalwell, Comment Letter on Cyber Incident 
Reporting for Critical Infrastructure Act (CIRCIA) Reporting 
Requirements (Jul. 3, 2024); Senator Gary Peters, Comment Letter on 
Cyber Incident Reporting for Critical Infrastructure Act (CIRCIA) 
Reporting Requirements (Jul. 2, 2024).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    To adhere more closely to the CIRCIA statute, the final rule should 
limit reporting to information directly related to an actionable 
purpose--like detecting signs of a wide-spread vulnerability. Narrowing 
reporting data elements in this way would help give life to CIRCIA's 
``substantially similar'' exception--something that would be 
unavailable to covered entities under the breadth of the current 
proposal. It would also lessen the burden of the supplemental reporting 
requirements which, as currently drafted, would likely require entities 
to file multiple additional reports during a single incident. Finally, 
CISA's rule should have reasonable thresholds for reporting above the 
standard proposed in the current substantial cyber incident definition 
that would likely cause a flood of reports on low-risk incidents.
Rescind the SEC Cyber Incident Disclosure Rule
    Before the SEC finalized this rule in 2023, the financial sector 
raised significant concerns with its requirement to publicly disclose 
on-going cyber incidents.\6\ Chief among those concerns was that 
publicly disclosing on-going and unremediated cyber incidents could 
impair a victim company's ability to respond or otherwise exacerbate 
harm to the company, its shareholders, and customers. Unfortunately, 
those reservations were realized in November 2023 when ransomware group 
AlphV weaponized the public disclosure requirement as an additional 
ransom payment extortion method by reporting its own victim to the 
SEC.\7\ Given the pervasiveness of ransomware attacks, it is misguided 
to provide cyber criminals with an additional means to inflict 
financial harm on victim companies.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \6\ Bank Policy Institute, American Bankers Assoc., Independent 
Community Bankers of America, & Mid-Size Banking Coalition of America, 
Comment Letter on Proposed Rules Regarding Cybersecurity Risk 
Management, Strategy, Governance, and Incident Disclosure Requirements 
(May 9, 2022), https://bpi.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/05.09.22-BPI-
ABA-ICBA-MCBA-SEC-Comment-Letter-2022.05.09.pdf; Fin. Services Sector 
Coordinating Council, Comment Letter on Cybersecurity Risk Management, 
Strategy, Governance, and Incident Disclosure, https://www.sec.gov/
comments/s7-09-22/s70922-20128382-291285.pdf.
    \7\ AlphV files an SEC complaint against MeridianLink for not 
disclosing a breach to the SEC, DATABREACHES.NET (Nov. 15, 2023), 
https://databreaches.net/2023/11/15/alphv-files-an-sec-complaint-
against-meridianlink-for-not-disclosing-a-breach-to-the-sec/.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The public disclosure element of this rule is also problematic 
because it directly conflicts with the purpose of confidential incident 
reporting requirements. Although there are numerous confidential 
reporting rules across the Government, all generally aim to limit harm 
and warn potential downstream victims. Once an incident is publicly 
disclosed, however, that task becomes much more difficult to achieve. 
Using CIRCIA as an example, CISA will only have 24 hours to 
confidentially share threat indicators before an incident is publicly 
disclosed under the SEC rule. That leaves vulnerable companies with 
virtually no time to implement those controls before the incident is 
disclosed to the world. Rescinding the requirement that companies 
publicly disclose on-going cyber incidents will help eliminate 
unnecessary exposure to these threats.
Stop Duplicative New Requirements and Leverage CIRCIA
    The financial sector complies with as many as 10 distinct incident 
reporting requirements in the United States alone.\8\ Many of these 
obligations were instituted over the past few years as agencies 
seemingly rushed to put out their own--and often conflicting rules. We 
understand that agencies have unique missions and therefore different 
information needs. Nonetheless, the patchwork of current requirements 
across the Government is past the point of helpful and now diverts 
finite resources away from incident response to filling out Government 
forms.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \8\ DEP'T OF HOMELAND SEC., HARMONIZATION OF CYBER INCIDENT 
REPORTING TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT 9 (2023); U.S. DEP'T OF HOUSING & 
URBAN DEVELOPMENT, FED. HOUSING ADMIN., MORTGAGEE LETTER 2024-23, 
REVISED CYBER INCIDENT REPORTING REQUIREMENTS (2024); U.S. DEP'T OF 
HOUSING & URBAN DEVELOPMENT, GINNIE MAE, APM 24-02, CYBERSECURITY 
INCIDENT NOTIFICATION REQUIREMENT (2024).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    There are 3 general categories these rules fall into: (1) Incident 
notification; (2) confidential incident reporting; and (3) public 
incident disclosure. At one end of the spectrum, incident notification 
rules tend to be early during an incident investigation and simple--
such as a phone call or email. They are used to inform an agency of an 
issue without requiring extensive data elements. We support and 
recognize the value of incident notification requirements for agencies 
with operational responsibilities or emergency authorities within 
critical infrastructure. An example of this is the financial regulatory 
agencies' Interagency Computer-Security Incident Notification Rule 
issued after substantive consultation with financial institutions.\9\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \9\ Computer-Security Incident Notification Requirements for 
Banking Organizations and Their Bank Service Providers, 12 C.F.R.  53 
(2021).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Confidential incident reporting requirements--like CIRCIA--involve 
more detailed responses and therefore often have slightly longer 
reporting time frames. They serve to provide Government with 
information to assess whether an incident might be wide-spread across 
different firms or sectors, to provide early warning to other entities 
or to contain an incident.
    At the opposite end of the spectrum is the SEC disclosure rule 
which requires publicly alerting investors and others of an incident, 
regardless of whether mechanisms are in place--such as a software patch 
or the ability to disconnect from compromised networks--to prevent harm 
from spreading. As described above, this prioritization of investors' 
desire for information over critical incident response activities can 
exacerbate harm.
    When enacting CIRCIA, Congress intended that it be ``the primary 
means for reporting of cyber incidents to the Federal Government, that 
such reporting be through CISA, and that the required rule occupy the 
space regarding cyber incident reporting.''\10\ Because Congress was 
clear on this point, other Federal agencies should not create their own 
duplicative confidential reporting requirements.\11\ Incident 
notification and disclosure requirements should also be reviewed to 
ensure they are critical to the agency requiring them and do not 
interfere with confidential reporting. Instead, agencies should 
leverage CIRCIA and enter into sharing agreements with CISA to receive 
relevant cyber threat information.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \10\ Sen. Rob Portman, Comment Letter on SEC Proposed Rule on 
Cybersecurity Risk Management, Strategy, Governance, and Incident 
Disclosure 4 (May 9, 2022), https://www.sec.gov/comments/s7-09-22/
s70922-20128391-291294.pdf.
    \11\ See U.S. DEP'T OF HOUSING & URBAN DEVELOPMENT, FED. HOUSING 
ADMIN., MORTGAGEE LETTER 2024-23, REVISED CYBER INCIDENT REPORTING 
REQUIREMENTS (2024); U.S. DEP'T OF HOUSING & URBAN DEVELOPMENT, GINNIE 
MAE, APM 24-02, CYBERSECURITY INCIDENT NOTIFICATION REQUIREMENT (2024); 
CFTC Operational Resilience Framework for Futures Commission Merchants, 
89 Fed. Reg. 4706 (Jan. 24, 2024).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
       consolidate cyber regulatory requirements and supervision
    Financial institutions are continuously examined by the Office of 
the Comptroller of the Currency, Federal Reserve, and Federal Deposit 
Insurance Corporation, among others,\12\ and often have hundreds of 
examiners on-site to review their cybersecurity practices. According to 
a survey of our member firms, bank chief information security officers 
now spend 30-50 percent of their time on compliance and examiner 
management. The cyber teams they oversee spend as much as 70 percent of 
their time on those same functions. In the lead-up to exams, financial 
institutions routinely receive over 100 requests for information, 
followed by 75 to 100 supplemental requests during an exam. Of those 
requests, firms report that roughly 25 percent duplicate requests from 
other agencies.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \12\ Other U.S. financial regulators include the Commodity Futures 
Trading Commission, Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, National 
Credit Union Administration, Securities and Exchange Commission, and 
State banking agencies.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The cumulative effect of overlapping exams and regulatory 
requirements has created numerous unintended consequences. First, and 
as noted above, front-line cyber personnel now have significantly less 
time to perform their day-to-day security responsibilities as their 
bandwidth is consumed by compliance work. Relatedly, firms have paused 
or extended time frames for completing strategic program improvements 
to prepare for emerging threats. Finally, staff retention has become an 
issue as financial institutions report morale problems and burnout 
among staff driven by excessive compliance demands and rapid response 
deadlines.
    Looking forward, there should be a careful review of the current 
regulatory regime to ensure it is calibrated appropriately. This should 
include actively exploring how to consolidate regulatory 
responsibilities in a way that better balances the oversight 
obligations of regulators and the security realities of private 
companies. Moreover, supervisory activities should primarily focus on 
outcomes and not box-checking procedural exercises unrelated to actual 
risk. Structured accordingly, regulators will better understand the 
true cybersecurity maturity of the firms they oversee and regulated 
entities will have the time they need to defend against sophisticated 
and well-resourced foreign threat actors.
                               conclusion
    We welcome the committee's attention to this important issue. The 
financial sector has and will continue to support confidential 
information sharing to provide early warning and help prevent malicious 
attacks. This includes CIRCIA, which, if appropriately tailored to the 
statute and Congressional intent, will substantially improve awareness 
of cyber threats across the most important sectors of our economy. 
Harmonizing regulatory requirements is not a trivial task, but we are 
committed to working with this committee and other Federal agencies 
like CISA to advance that worthwhile goal.

    Mr. Garbarino. Thank you, Ms. Hogsett.
    I now recognize Mr. Mayer for 5 minutes to summarize his 
opening statement.

STATEMENT OF ROBERT MAYER, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, CYBERSECURITY 
     AND INNOVATION, US TELECOM, THE BROADBAND ASSOCIATION

    Mr. Mayer. Chairman Garbarino, Ranking Member Swalwell, 
Chairman Green, and all honorable Members of the subcommittee, 
thank you for the opportunity to testify today on the critical 
issues of cybersecurity incident reporting and regulatory 
harmonization. We are committed to strengthening the public/
private partnership to bolster our national security and stay 
ahead of our adversaries. This committee has an extraordinary 
opportunity to reset our national cybersecurity policies in 
ways that directly impact security outcomes.
    Our Nation is under constant cyber attack with estimates of 
up to $23 trillion in annual damages by 2027, increasing at a 
rate of more than 20 percent per year. We must take immediate 
action to eliminate redundant or conflicting cyber regulations, 
which can consume up to 70 percent of cybersecurity resources. 
By streamlining these requirements, we can free up critical 
resources for threat mitigation and incident response at 
virtually no cost.
    Let me reaffirm our view that it is essential we fix how 
the Cyber Incident Reporting for Critical Infrastructure Act, 
CIRCIA, needs to be implemented. While well-intentioned, it is 
essential that we refine its execution to ensure consistency 
with the law's original intent, specifically key terms such as 
``covered incident,'' ``covered entity,'' and ``reasonable 
belief'' must be clearly defined. The liability protections 
designed to safeguard cyber attack victims and promote candid 
reporting must be strengthened. As of today, none of these 
fundamental issues have been meaningfully addressed in a manner 
visible to industry, nor has our sector been substantively 
engaged in addressing these concerns.
    We urgently need an ex parte process, which is to say, a 
formal, transparent, and common process that encourages CISA to 
hear and consider industry perspectives. In fact, USTelecom 
spearheaded a letter of 21 organizations that formally 
requested that CISA establish such a process, a request that 
was rejected. Had this request been granted immediately, we 
would've already been working together to resolve these 
challenges. If we do not act quickly, we will end up with a 
rule that does more harm than good.
    We must also recognize that this law does not exist in 
isolation. The patchwork of Federal, State, and sector-specific 
cyber incident reporting requirements presents an ever-growing 
burden on organizations attempting to comply with multiple, 
often conflicting mandates. Fortunately, there is strong 
lawmaker interest to harmonize cyber regulations, including 
incident reporting requirements.
    We believe that the Office of the National Cyber Director 
should play a leading role in rationalizing cybersecurity 
regulations and incident reporting regimes. Solving the problem 
of fragmented State laws will require clear Federal preemption, 
complemented by robust safe harbor provisions. This work must 
be prioritized, as it is directly tied to our national 
security.
    We believe it is important that Congress acts now. We do 
not have time for further studies, requests for information, 
commissions, or pilot programs. Every moment spent delaying 
reform provides adversaries with additional opportunities to 
undermine our collective security. We must move swiftly and 
decisively to enhance our cybersecurity posture.
    Major recent cybersecurity incidents have highlighted the 
importance of stronger and more coordinated information sharing 
and incident response partnership between the Federal 
Government and the private sector. Congress advanced that 
project with the Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act of 2015, 
which set to sunset in September 2025. We ask that Congress 
extend the act and establish additional policies to improve the 
public/private partnership.
    We must also be willing to reconsider policies that have 
failed to produce meaningful security benefits. One such 
example is the Securities and Exchange Commission's cyber 
disclosure requirements, which, rather than enhancing security, 
have inadvertently provided malicious actors with a road map to 
exploit vulnerabilities. These mandates must be reassessed to 
prevent them from serving as a tool for cyber criminals.
    In conclusion, success in cybersecurity requires close 
collaboration between the industry and Government, including 
Congress and the Office of the National Cyber Director. We must 
act now to ensure that our cybersecurity policies are well-
reasoned, well-informed, and designed to maximize efficiency 
and effectiveness. By fixing CIRCIA's implementation, 
harmonizing cyber regulations, and eliminating unnecessary 
burdens, we can strengthen our Nation's cybersecurity defenses 
and uphold our commitment to protecting national security.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify today, and I look 
forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Mayer follows:]
                   Prepared Statement of Robert Mayer
                             March 11, 2025
    Chairman Garbarino, Ranking Member Swalwell, and Members of the 
subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today on the 
critical issues of cybersecurity incident reporting and regulatory 
harmonization. We are committed to strengthening the public-private 
partnership to bolster our national security and stay ahead of our 
adversaries. This committee has an extraordinary opportunity to reset 
our national cybersecurity policy in ways that directly impact security 
outcomes.
    Our Nation is under constant cyber attack, with estimates of up to 
$23 trillion in annual damages by 2027, increasing at a rate of more 
than 20 percent per year.\1\ We must take immediate action to eliminate 
redundant or conflicting cyber regulations, which can consume up to 70 
percent of cybersecurity resources.\2\ By streamlining these 
requirements, we can free up critical resources for threat mitigation 
and incident response--at virtually no cost.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ See The Economist, ``Unexpectedly, the cost of big cyber-
attacks is falling'' (May 17, 2024).
    \2\ Chamber of Commerce, Briefing with Majority and Minority Staff 
of Senate Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee (May 29, 
2024).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Let me reaffirm our view that it is essential we fix how the 
Cybersecurity Incident Reporting for Critical Infrastructure Act 
(CIRCIA) needs to be implemented. While well-intentioned, it is 
essential that we refine its execution to ensure consistency with the 
law's original intent. Specifically, key terms such as ``covered 
incident,'' ``covered entity,'' and ``reasonable belief'' must be 
clearly defined. The liability protections designed to safeguard cyber 
attack victims and promote candid reporting must be strengthened. As of 
today, none of these fundamental issues have been meaningfully 
addressed in a manner visible to industry, nor has our sector been 
substantively engaged in addressing these concerns.
    We urgently need an ex parte process--which is to say a formal, 
transparent, and common process that encourages CISA to hear and 
consider industry perspectives. In fact, USTelecom spearheaded a letter 
by 21 organizations that formally requested that CISA establish such as 
process; a request that was rejected.
    Had this request been granted immediately, we would have already 
been working together to resolve these challenges. If we do not act 
quickly, we will end up with a rule that does more harm than good.
    We must also recognize that this law does not exist in isolation. 
The patchwork of Federal, State, and sector-specific cyber incident 
reporting requirements presents an ever-growing burden on organizations 
attempting to comply with multiple, often conflicting, mandates. 
Fortunately, there is a strong lawmaker interest to harmonize cyber 
regulations, including incident reporting requirements.
    We believe the Office of the National Cyber Director (ONCD) should 
play a leading role in rationalizing cybersecurity regulations and 
incident reporting regimes. Solving the problem of fragmented State 
laws will require clear Federal preemption, complemented by robust safe 
harbor provisions. This work must be prioritized, as it is directly 
tied to our national security.
    We believe it is important that Congress acts now. We do not have 
time for further studies, requests for information, commissions, or 
pilot programs. Every moment spent delaying reform provides adversaries 
with additional opportunities to undermine our collective security. We 
must move swiftly and decisively to enhance our cybersecurity posture.
    Major recent cybersecurity incidents have highlighted the 
importance of a stronger and more coordinated information sharing and 
incident response partnership between the Federal Government and the 
private sector. Congress advanced that project with the Cybersecurity 
Information Sharing Act of 2015, which is set to sunset in September 
2025. We ask that Congress extend the Act, and establish additional 
policies to improve the public-private partnership.
    Key pillars for improve this partnership include:
   There Should Be a Single Responsible Federal Agency for 
        Major Cybersecurity Incidents.--In the midst of a major 
        incident, an operator's cybersecurity team is tightly focused 
        on understanding and mitigating the challenge, and may be 
        coordinating with other affected entities and/or with one or 
        more law enforcement or national security agencies. It is 
        practically difficult and often inadvisable to pull away from 
        those operational imperatives to engage in briefings or other 
        general information sharing and analysis activities (which 
        takes substantial time and effort) with multiple Government 
        stakeholders absent concrete benefits to doing so.
     Accordingly, Congress should ensure a unified, whole-of-
            Government approach to major cybersecurity incidents: In 
            the wake of a major incident with national security 
            implications, a single ``Responsible Agency'' should have 
            formal responsibility for (i) coordinating with the private 
            sector and (ii) overseeing Government information sharing 
            during a cybersecurity event.
   Power to Suspend Reporting Obligations.--Congress should 
        grant the Responsible Agency the power to suspend all Federal, 
        State, and contractual reporting obligations upon a finding 
        that doing so is in the national interest. Otherwise, the 
        existing patchwork of reporting regimes (e.g., FCC, SEC, 
        CIRCIA, Government contracts, private contracts) could cause 
        highly sensitive information to be promulgated in a haphazard 
        manner.
   Expanded Government Sharing of Actionable Cybersecurity 
        Information.--Whether sharing information about a specific 
        incident or a potential or known threat, the Government should 
        focus on getting detailed, actionable tactical information in 
        the hands of the private-sector personnel responsible for 
        protecting communications networks.
     Security Clearances for Private-Sector Leaders.--Private-
            sector CISOs and other key cybersecurity professionals 
            should be granted security clearances (subject to 
            appropriate vetting). Security clearances should not be 
            tied to whether an individual is involved in a particular 
            Government project or program.
     Secure transfer mechanisms.--Congress should fund a 
            streamlined method for Government agencies and the private 
            sector to securely transmit and receive sensitive 
            information.
   Promote Meaningful Private-Sector Sharing of Sensitive 
        Information.--Policies for promoting information sharing need 
        to promote voluntary private-sector information sharing:
     Confidentiality of information shared by industry.--Enact 
            legislation that would create major penalties for 
            individuals within the Government that breach 
            confidentiality or share information without authorization 
            during a national security cyber attack investigation. The 
            private sector will not share highly-sensitive information 
            with the Government if there is a risk Government employees 
            receiving the information will leak it.
     Immunity for information shared by industry.--Establish a 
            strong ``Reverse Miranda'' regime where information shared 
            by a private actor cannot be used against it in any future 
            action or proceeding.
     Limited number of recipients.--Private actor needs 
            assurances that sensitive information it shares will only 
            be available to a small number of Government officials and 
            companies. Operators will not meaningfully share 
            information if the pool of recipients is too large or 
            includes potentially untrusted persons/entities.
    We must also be willing to reconsider policies that have failed to 
produce meaningful security benefits. One such example is the 
Securities and Exchange Commission's (SEC) cyber disclosure 
requirements, which, rather than enhancing security, have inadvertently 
provided malicious actors with a road map to exploit vulnerabilities. 
These mandates must be reassessed to prevent them from serving as a 
tool for cyber criminals.
    In conclusion, success in cybersecurity requires close 
collaboration between industry and Government, including Congress and 
the Office of the National Cyber Director. We must act now to ensure 
that our cybersecurity policies are well-reasoned, well-informed, and 
designed to maximize efficiency and effectiveness. By fixing CIRCIA's 
implementation, harmonizing cyber regulations, and eliminating 
unnecessary burdens, we can strengthen our Nation's cyber defenses and 
uphold our commitment to protecting national security.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I look forward to 
your questions.

    Mr. Garbarino. Thank you, Mr. Mayer.
    I now recognize Mr. Schwartz for 5 minutes to summarize his 
opening statement.

STATEMENT OF ARI SCHWARTZ, COORDINATOR, CYBERSECURITY COALITION

    Mr. Schwartz. Thank you Chairman Garbarino, Ranking Member 
Swalwell, Chairman Green, Members of the subcommittee. Thank 
you for having me here to appear before you today. It's an 
honor to be here to discuss the widely-shared goals of 
harmonizing cybersecurity regulations.
    My name is Ari Schwartz. I am coordinator of the 
Cybersecurity Coalition, the leading policy coalition 
representing companies that develop cybersecurity products and 
services.
    As cybersecurity threats continue to grow, calls for 
cybersecurity regulation around the world have increased as 
well. In the United States, choices that Congress made 10 to 15 
years ago led most cybersecurity regulations to be overseen by 
the current sectorial regulators. This has the convenience of 
maintaining the current relationship between the regulated 
company and the regulator. Organizations are overseen by 
agencies that know that sector.
    But each agency is not going to have full expertise in 
cybersecurity. New cross-sector and international regulations 
have continued to grow, making harmonization difficult. But 
it's not impossible. Agencies must work extra hard to ensure 
that regulations can align so we are not overburdening 
organizations and putting so much work on compliance that we 
are draining resources that otherwise could go to actually 
improving security.
    The example where this is most obvious today is around 
incident reporting. Incident reporting allows agencies to track 
what's happening in and across sectors, and, in the best-case 
scenario, alert potential victims before it's too late. 
However, as DHS pointed out in a report to Congress in 2023, 45 
different incident reporting requirements have been created led 
by 23 different agencies. Internationally, the reporting 
regimes have grown equally large. These reports are on 
different time frames, use different types of information, and 
use different taxonomies to describe the information. This has 
led to duplication, misalignment, and general confusion.
    In 2022, Congress passed CIRCIA, a law intended to have 
critical infrastructure standardized reporting and send it to 
CISA. CISA ran a process to receive comments on how this 
reporting should work and issued a notice of proposed 
rulemaking in 2024. It is the cybersecurity coalition's view 
that the proposed rule did not meet Congress' goal of 
adequately harmonizing incident reporting requirements.
    First of all, there was a lack of engagement. While CISA 
clearly tried to follow the letter of the law in getting 
comments on the rule making, it failed to adequately engage the 
sectors. The open sessions that were held were rote and did not 
address known concerns of the community. The CISA 
representatives simply repeated the same questions CISA had 
originally posed.
    Second, there is an overbroad scope in the proposed rule. 
Instead of harmonizing around existing rules or best practices 
identified by other sectors, CISA decided to create a new broad 
definition of covered entities. CISA also decided to create a 
new construct of what triggers reporting and when it needs to 
be reported.
    Last, there is a failure to streamline the reporting. While 
CISA made some attempts to ensure that the report filed with 
CISA would be shared with others that might require it, the 
proposed rule did not go far enough to demonstrate that CISA 
was attempting to solve the problem of duplicative reporting, 
seemingly placing the onus on the reporting on the 
organizations.
    We believe that these issues can be addressed if CISA makes 
a commitment to meeting with the sectors. We suggest this be 
done through an ex parte rule-making process using the critical 
infrastructure partnership known as CIPAC. However, we have 
heard that Secretary Noem last week shut down the CIPAC, which 
we think is a mistake for many reasons, with this process being 
a good example, where the CIPAC process can play a critical 
role in the public/private partnership.
    Finally, while we were talking about the importance of 
sharing information with the Government, I would be remiss not 
to speak up in favor of reauthorization of the Cybersecurity 
Information Sharing Act of 2015. This law has provided the 
ability for companies to share cyber threat information among 
themselves and with Government. It has streamlined the 
definition of cyber threat information and has allowed multiple 
groups to form and to share that information to quickly stop in 
order to respond to incidents. We hope that reauthorization of 
that--of the law is a priority for this subcommittee.
    I thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Schwartz follows:]
                   Prepared Statement of Ari Schwartz
                             March 11, 2025
                              introduction
    Thank you, Chairman Garbarino, Ranking Member Swalwell, and Members 
of the subcommittee for inviting me to appear before you today. It is 
an honor to be here to discuss the critical importance of harmonizing 
cybersecurity regulations.
    My name is Ari Schwartz, and I am the coordinator of the 
Cybersecurity Coalition, the leading policy coalition representing 
companies that develop cybersecurity products and services.\1\ In my 
role, I focus on advancing efforts related to regulatory harmonization, 
ensuring that cybersecurity laws and standards are streamlined, 
effective, and efficient for businesses and the public sector alike.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Cybersecurity Coalition is dedicated to finding and advancing 
consensus policy solutions that promote the development and adoption of 
cybersecurity technologies. We seek to ensure a robust marketplace that 
will encourage companies of all sizes to take steps to improve their 
cybersecurity risk management. We are supportive of efforts to identify 
and promote the adoption of cybersecurity best practices, information 
sharing, and voluntary standards throughout the global community. Our 
members include Broadcom, Cisco, Cybastion, Google, Infoblox, Intel, 
Kyndryl, Microsoft, Palo Alto Networks, Rapid7, RedHat, Schneider 
Electric, Tenable, Trellix, Wiz, and Zscaler.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Over the past 20 years, Congress has made significant efforts to 
ensure our Nation is protected without also overburdening the companies 
that run our critical infrastructure. Between 2011 and 2015, Congress 
debated legislation that would have centralized control of critical 
infrastructure protection regulatory efforts and instead, chose to 
leave the majority of the control to each sector's existing regulators. 
Congress decided that the sectors had inherent differences--including 
terminologies and requirements--and therefore needed to maintain 
separate regulatory regimes.
    Meanwhile, efforts to address the evolving cyber threat landscape 
have prompted the development of new sector-specific and cross-sector 
requirements. These requirements apply not only within the private 
sector but also across all levels and branches of Government, both in 
the United States and around the world. While necessary to secure our 
Nation's critical infrastructure and systems, these requirements have 
also resulted in a complicated, fragmented, and duplicative regulatory 
regime. This has created undue burdens and pressures for critical 
infrastructure owners and operators, making compliance both difficult 
and time-consuming. For example, companies face continuous updates to 
mapping exercises for various compliance regimes. Keeping pace with the 
flood of rule making and industry feedback opportunities requires 
resources: time, tracking tools, consultants, security leaders' input, 
and more. It is simply not a good use of limited security resources.\2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ During the last administration, several important steps were 
taken to address this issue: The White House Office of the National 
Cyber Director (ONCD) launched an initiative to review cybersecurity 
regulations, gathering input from stakeholders.
    Request for Information Opportunities for and Obstacles to 
Harmonizing Cybersecurity Regulations, Office of the National Cyber 
Director, 88 Fed. Reg. 55694, Aug. 16, 2023, https://
www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Cybersecurity-Regulatory-
Harmonization-RFI-Summary-ONCD.pdf.
    Senators Peters and Lankford introduced the Streamlining Federal 
Cybersecurity Regulations Act, which sought to establish an ONCD-led 
process for developing a harmonized regulatory framework and review new 
regulations for alignment.
    S. 4630, Streamlining Federal Cybersecurity Regulations Act, 118th 
Cong., https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/4630.
    Meanwhile, across the Atlantic, the European Union has acknowledged 
that its cybersecurity rules have created overlap and burden and is 
looking to streamline existing regulations, reduce administrative 
burdens and ensure a more cohesive approach to cybersecurity. https://
commission.europa.eu/law/law-making-process/better-regulation/
simplification-and-implementation_en.
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                        cyber incident reporting
    One area where the burden of regulatory requirements on companies 
unquestionably continues to grow is around cyber incident reporting.
    In many ways, incident reporting is a perfect demonstration of the 
broader issue. Governments continue to seek ways to utilize incident 
data to quickly spot patterns of incidents and respond to them. In 
order to get that information, there are increasing requests and 
requirements for more detailed incident response data to be sent to a 
growing number of organizations.\3\ As more organizations build 
reporting structures for different purposes, duplication, misalignment, 
fragmentation, and other issues start to set in. This includes concerns 
around the amount and types of data fields, differing taxonomies, time 
frames for reporting, and more.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ The 2023 Department of Homeland Security Congressional Report, 
Harmonization of Cyber Incident Reporting to the Federal Government, 
``identified 45 different Federal cyber incident reporting requirements 
created by statute or regulation'' being ``administered by 22 Federal 
agencies'', with another ``7 proposed rules that would create a new 
reporting requirement or amend a current requirement, and 5 additional 
potential new requirements or amendments under consideration but not 
yet proposed.'' https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/2023-09/
Harmonization%20of%20Cyber%20Incident%20Reporting%20to%20the%20Federal%2
0Govern- ment.pdf.
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    Harmonizing cyber incident reporting would bring benefits to both 
public and private-sector efforts to strengthen cybersecurity. It would 
improve coordination and response capabilities, enhance data quality, 
accelerate threat detection and mitigation, and enable more effective 
policy making and resource allocation.
    The Cyber Incident Reporting for Critical Infrastructure Act 
(CIRCIA)\4\ was enacted in 2022, requiring critical infrastructure 
owners and operators to report cyber incidents and ransomware payments 
to the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA). CISA 
formally solicited input from industry to inform this reporting 
structure, including which entities should report and what type of data 
should be reported.
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    \4\ Pub. L. 117-103 Title V, Div Y.
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    The Cybersecurity Coalition is generally supportive of CIRCIA's 
objectives, and we acknowledge that CISA was given a difficult task to 
develop a reporting regime that encompasses all critical infrastructure 
sectors. Congress specifically required CISA to prioritize 
harmonization efforts to ``avoid conflicting, duplicative, or 
burdensome requirements'' across the sectors. In its proposed 
rulemaking, we do not believe CISA met this essential goal.\5\ In 
particular:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ Proposed Rule Cyber Incident Reporting for Critical 
Infrastructure Act Reporting Requirements, Cybersecurity and 
Infrastructure Security Agency, 89 Fed. Reg. 23644, Apr. 4, 2024, 
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2024/04/04/2024-06526/cyber-
incident-reporting-for-critical-infrastructure-act-circia-reporting-
requirements.
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   Lack of Sectoral Engagement.--CISA did not adequately engage 
        in working with the critical infrastructure sectors to discuss 
        how to best harmonize existing efforts. In particular, despite 
        the explicit mention of the need for ``coordination'' with the 
        Critical Infrastructure Partnership Advisory Committee (CIPAC) 
        and information sharing and analysis organizations in CIRCIA, 
        CISA included almost no means of ex-parte engagement for them. 
        The Cybersecurity Coalition believes that CISA should 
        immediately begin meeting with the Sector Coordinating Councils 
        under the CIPAC and the members of the Council of Information 
        and Sharing and Analysis Center in a coordinated ex-parte 
        process that Congress intended.
    CISA should also work more closely with the Office of Management 
        and Budget and other Federal agencies to facilitate reciprocity 
        and harmonization to streamline incident reporting under 
        CIRCIA's statutory language. This includes promoting greater 
        collaboration between DHS; Federal agencies; State, local, 
        Tribal, and territorial (SLTT) agencies; as well as 
        international partners.
   Overbroad Scope.--In its definition of ``covered entities,'' 
        rather than relying on existing definitions or trying to 
        coordinate among existing efforts, CISA decided to create a 
        complex new definition. It has two categories: those within 
        critical infrastructure sectors, with exceptions for small 
        businesses and those meeting sector-specific criteria.\6\ In 
        many cases, it may not be immediately clear whether an entity 
        is covered by the proposed reporting requirements but because 
        the requirements focus on size rather than what the company 
        actually does, it almost certainly covers companies who have 
        probably never before been considered ``critical 
        infrastructure.'' We do not think that this was Congress' 
        intent.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \6\ 89 Fed. Reg 23644, 23660.
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    Also, mixing the broad scope of covered entities with a very broad 
        definition of ``covered cyber incidents,'' the Cybersecurity 
        Coalition is concerned that this rule may lead to an 
        overwhelming number of incident reports.\7\ This influx of less 
        relevant reports could burden CISA's incident reporting system, 
        requiring significant additional resources for analysis, 
        triage, and transformation into actionable intelligence. While 
        the goal of CIRCIA is to ensure enough data is provided to 
        create a comprehensive picture to inform policy and response 
        actions, we believe that there is a point where too much data 
        creates unnecessary noise that distracts from the core mission. 
        CISA should prove they can effectively work with the enormous 
        influx of data we'd expect they would receive using the 
        existing construction of critical infrastructure and with a 
        more modest definition of types of reports requested before 
        considering expanding their scope.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \7\ Cybersecurity Coalition Comments, Request for Information on 
the Cyber Incident Reporting for Critical Infrastructure Act, June 28, 
2024, https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/660ec3caef47b817df2800ae/
6684487fa6bfce5ed0c2a12a_Cybersecurity%20Coalition%20%20- 
FINAL%20Comments%20to%20CISA%20re%20CIRCIA%20Proposed%20Rule%206.28.24%-
 20(2).pdf.
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    The Cybersecurity Coalition believes that CISA should narrow the 
        scope of ``covered entities'' under CIRCIA. Instead of applying 
        reporting requirements to all entities within critical 
        infrastructure sectors, Congress should direct CISA to ``focus 
        on Systemically Important Entities (SIEs) that own or operate 
        critical infrastructure systems and assets whose disruption 
        would have a debilitating, systemic, or cascading impact on 
        national security, the economy, public health, or public 
        safety.''\8\ This would help Congress uphold its original 
        intent to focus on the most essential infrastructure while 
        avoiding unnecessary regulatory burden on less critical 
        entities.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \8\ Cybersecurity Coalition Comments, Request for Information on 
the Cyber Incident Reporting for Critical Infrastructure Act of 2022, 
Nov. 14, 2022, https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/
660ec3caef47b817df2800ae/
660ec3caef47b817df280233_Comments%20CISA%20CIRCIA- 
%20RFI%20%20Docket%20Number%202022-19551%20-%20CISA-2022-
0010%2011.14.22.pdf.
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   Failure to Streamline Reporting.--The proposed rule lacks 
        clear measures to streamline reporting processes. Although the 
        idea of ``substantially similar'' reporting requirements could 
        help address duplicative reporting across different frameworks, 
        the definition of ``substantially similar'' remains unclear. 
        The proposed rule requires CISA and relevant agencies to 
        establish a ``CIRCIA Agreement'' to ensure their reporting 
        requirements align with this standard. However, CISA retains 
        the authority to limit exceptions for substantially similar 
        reports to agencies with formal agreements. The Cybersecurity 
        Coalition is concerned that this broad and prescriptive 
        approach could reduce reciprocity and create additional burdens 
        for entities striving to align with these standards.\9\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \9\ Id.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Cybersecurity Coalition believes that CISA should support 
        efforts to streamline Federal cybersecurity regulations to 
        ensure businesses are not burdened by multiple, conflicting 
        obligations. By passing legislation that promotes the 
        development of standardized incident reporting processes, 
        Congress can make it easier for companies to comply with 
        regulatory requirements while limiting agency overreach.
    The Cybersecurity Coalition would prefer to see CISA issue a new 
version of the proposed rule that addresses these concerns and then 
receive comments on that draft and issue a final rule in the time frame 
originally proposed by Congress. Unfortunately, Secretary Noem has now 
reportedly disbanded the CIPAC,\10\ which will make getting comments 
from all of the sectors much more difficult. We hope the Secretary will 
reinstate the CIPAC. If not, in order to effectively receive feedback, 
it will likely be necessary for CISA to simply rescind the rule and 
start over. This would be a disappointing outcome considering the 
amount of time already expended on this effort and the fact that CISA 
would likely miss Congress' intended time line.
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    \10\ https://subscriber.politicopro.com/newsletter/2025/03/
estonias-cyber-Ambassador-weighs-in-00220220.
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           the cybersecurity information sharing act of 2015
    While we are discussing the importance of using data to address and 
prevent cyber incidents, I would be remiss not to mention the 
importance of the Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act of 2015 (CISA 
2015).\11\ CISA 2015 provides companies liability protections when 
sharing a very narrowly-defined set of cyber threat information.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \11\ 6 USC 1503.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    We can think of CISA 2015 as lowering the burden on organizations 
by simplifying the way that companies share information amongst other 
companies and with the Government and the purposes of that sharing. 
While CISA 2015 was somewhat controversial at the time of its creation, 
it has been anything but controversial in practice. CISA should be 
commended for the fine job they did with the Department of Justice in 
creating the complicated guidance necessary for CISA 2015.
    The Cybersecurity Coalition supports the reauthorization of CISA 
2015. We urge this committee to take the lead in making its 
introduction and passage a priority. We look forward to working with 
you on this effort.
                               conclusion
    In conclusion, the path forward in strengthening our Nation's 
cybersecurity lies in harmonizing and streamlining regulations. It is 
critical that we create a regulatory environment that allows 
organizations to focus on meaningful cybersecurity practices rather 
than navigating complex, burdensome, and conflicting requirements. On 
behalf of the Cybersecurity Coalition, I strongly urge Congress to 
continue prioritizing this issue and push CISA to address key concerns 
in CIRCIA, including clarifying the definition of covered entity, 
refining the scope of covered cyber incident, and ensuring reciprocity 
across frameworks.
    We appreciate the work Congress has done, and we are committed to 
working alongside you to ensure cybersecurity regulations are effective 
and efficient. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. I look forward 
to your questions.

    Mr. Gimenez [presiding]. Thank you, Mr. Schwartz.
    Members will be recognized by order of seniority for their 
5 minutes of questioning. I want to remind everyone to please 
keep their questioning to 5 minutes. An additional round of 
questioning may be called after all Members have been 
recognized.
    I now recognize the gentleman from Tennessee, the Chairman 
of the committee, Mr. Green, for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Green. Thank you.
    First, let me say, the testimony today has been superb. I--
my questions will be to reiterate points you've made. In fact, 
I just told my senior staffer for cybersecurity to get copies 
of everyone's testimony and provide it at the cyber subs 
meeting. The cyber subs committee, I started this last year, 
some of you may be aware of this, where we meet all the cyber 
subcommittees to try to get a whole-of-Government approach 
here. We're going to send copies of your testimony to every 
cyber subcommittee Member in this Congress. This was excellent. 
Thank you.
    You know, Congress has a duty--let me make this point: 
Congress has a duty that we have shirked over 40 years in both 
parties and passed off to the bureaucracy. The Constitution is 
really clear. A lot of these things that the administration is 
now closing, Chevron deference, and the Supreme Court have 
ruled it really belonged to Congress in the first place and we 
never should have passed it off to the doggone administration 
in the bureaucracy. Right? So I get that there's some 
frustration that certain things are being closed, but, I mean, 
Constitutionally, we need to do that here. It's a part of our 
oversight obligation. It's a part of our particularly reporting 
and review boards and things like that.
    I was told yesterday--and I don't know if it's completely 
true. I've got to fact check this, but the VA spends $1 billion 
on compliance. Does that seem reasonable, $1 billion on 
compliance? These conflicting rules and this--all this time, I 
think, Ms. Hogsett, you said 30 percent on actual just checking 
the box compliance and 70 percent on real cybersecurity. Was 
that the ratio you quoted?
    Ms. Hogsett. Thirty to 50 percent of the chief information 
security officer's time is----
    Mr. Green. Is on checking the box.
    Ms. Hogsett [continuing]. Spent on that and 70 percent of 
their team's.
    Mr. Green. Ridiculous.
    Let me ask this question: What is the average time to close 
a vulnerability when one has been identified? I--just, give me 
a number of days. I'm going to run the--the average 
vulnerability, closing the door takes how long? Take a guess.
    Mr. Aaronson. You're going to hate this answer: It depends.
    Mr. Green. Great.
    Ms. Hogsett. True. If it's a critical vulnerability firm 
has worked to close that within days if possible. It all 
depends on whether you align----
    Mr. Green. What is it for?
    Ms. Hogsett. It would depend on how much control you have 
over it. If it something that resides within a third party, you 
have less control and ability to move quickly to close it.
    Mr. Green. OK.
    Mr. Mayer. Yes. I don't want to speculate, sir, on an 
average, but I will tell you that if you look at the recent 
attacks that are coming from nation-states, it's taken weeks, 
months, and it's still a process that is under way.
    Mr. Green. Yes. Well, I'm not sure we've patched the 
telecom breach yet.
    Mr. Schwartz. So if we're talking about, like, browsers, 
they can close them in hours. But if you're talking operational 
technology, it takes days.
    Mr. Green. Days?
    Mr. Schwartz. Yes.
    Mr. Green. Yes. SEC pulls the number 4 days out of their 
backside and thinks that they're doing shareholders a positive. 
But when they announce that they've got a hole in the door, in 
the wall, and it's not going to be closed, it invites attack 
from everybody. It's the stupidest thing I've ever heard of.
    Let me ask this question--we've got to go and figure out 
all this list of duplicity, list of conflicting--how best do we 
as Congress, does this subcommittee and the subcommittees 
across our Congress, figure out all the lists of duplicative 
requirements and contradictory requirements? How do we go get 
this information?
    Mr. Aaronson. So, first of all, I appreciate what you said 
about the coordination across all the committees of 
jurisdiction. I think understanding--the first thing a cyber--a 
CISA or CSO is going to do is inventory their entire system to 
understand where vulnerabilities might be. I'd say that 
Congress needs to inventory the system, understand where all of 
the regulatory requirements are so that we can start to do the 
hard work of harmonizing.
    Just to foot-stomp something that you said about the lunacy 
of the SEC rule, adversaries--and to talk about the 
vulnerabilities and a time to patch--adversaries watch our 
response. I understand, you know, the importance of sunshine 
and transparency, but we also have to understand that 
intelligent adversaries are leveraging our transparency when 
perpetrating attacks and seeing how we respond.
    Mr. Green. Don't we list the identified vulnerabilities 
somewhere in a database, that the bad guys can sit there and 
take a look at, and then challenge and find where that 
vulnerability is anywhere in the system?
    Mr. Aaronson. Those vulnerabilities become a little less 
important when everybody knows about them, so there is that----
    Mr. Green. There's always that legacy system that's still 
running, the old thing that nobody catches and it's an open 
door. That's what worries me there, Mr. Schwartz.
    Mr. Schwartz. I was going to say, I mean, they shouldn't--
you shouldn't post--this is one of the reasons we say don't--
that we need a patch before you post a vulnerability. So----
    Mr. Green. Yes, exactly.
    Mr. Schwartz [continuing]. The patch has to exist but then 
people actually have to patch.
    Mr. Green. We've just got to get everybody to download the 
patch.
    Thank you. I yield.
    Mr. Gimenez. Thank you to our Chairman.
    Now I recognize the gentlewoman from New York, the former 
Chair, Ms. Clarke.
    Ms. Clarke. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    I thank Ranking Member Swalwell for letting me waive onto 
today's subcommittee hearing.
    Thank you to our panelists of witnesses for joining us 
today.
    Before I begin my formal comments, I'd like to associate 
myself with the sentiments of Ranking Member Swalwell regarding 
Congressman Sylvester Turner. We are grateful for his service 
to the people of Houston, Texas. To his family and loved ones, 
we extend our deepest condolences. May he rest in peace.
    When I introduced CIRCIA back in 2021 with Ranking Member 
Thompson and Chairman Garbarino, I did so because I recognized 
the important need for increased visibility into the cyber 
incidents affecting critical infrastructure and the importance 
of a central hub for cyber incident reporting in the Federal 
enterprise. I worked with many of the witnesses here today to 
get CIRCIA across the finish line, and I appreciate their on-
going efforts to make sure that we get the final rule right.
    I also appreciate Mr. Swalwell's work encouraging CISA to 
effectively engage with the private sector on the rule.
    I agree with my colleagues and the witnesses before us that 
there are necessary improvements to the proposed rule, but the 
urgency of implementing CIRCIA remains. I hope the new 
administration will work quickly to modify the proposed rule 
and publish a final one without undue delay.
    I have 2 questions for our witnesses. First of all, to all 
of our witnesses, without a defined--well-defined cyber 
incident reporting rule and harmonization process for CISA, we 
run the risk of agencies across Government issuing a hodgepodge 
of duplicative cyber incident reporting requirements. How will 
scrambling to comply with multiple incident reporting 
requirements affect security?
    Then, second, many stakeholders have weighed in that the 
proposed CIRCIA rule defined ``covered entities'' and ``covered 
incidents'' too broadly, unnecessarily increasing the burden on 
the private sector and potentially overwhelming CISA with too 
many reports to analyze. Indeed, CIRCIA instructed CISA to 
identify subsets of entities and incidents, instruct--excuse 
me, subject to reporting requirements to avoid that outcome. 
Can you give me your thoughts on that?
    We'll start with Mr. Aaronson and then work our way across.
    Mr. Aaronson. So, on the first question, I would just echo 
some of the things that Ms. Hogsett said about the time that 
information security teams are spending on compliance. It's 
somewhere between 30 and 50 percent. As you expand the 
hodgepodge--to use your word--of reporting requirements, it 
only gets more complicated.
    To your point about the broadness of CIRCIA as it currently 
exists and the uncertainty that surrounds it, taken at its most 
sort-of broad interpretation of what is a covered entity and 
what is a covered incident, we had one of our companies report 
that they thought they would have as many as 65,000 reports 
between 2022 and 2033. I think the number that CISA had said 
would be somewhere in the 200,000 to 220,000 total in that time 
frame, so it seems to be off by--if that's just one company 
taken at a really broad interpretation, it seems to be off by 
an order of magnitude. This goes to the importance of getting 
the definitions and the details right so that we can get some 
signal from the noise and so that CISA can ingest the 
information in a meaningful way.
    Ms. Clarke. Very well.
    Ms. Hogsett.
    Ms. Hogsett. Sure. Just to add to that, and thank you for 
the question, the challenge of responding to multiple 
requirements does have a direct impact on security because it 
is diverting the time and attention away from what we all want 
the cyber professionals to be doing, which is defending their 
networks, kicking out bad actors when there is an incident and 
focusing on that. Instead, they have to divert time away to 
basically make sure they're complying with different legal 
obligations.
    With respect to the definitions and covered entities within 
CIRCIA and the proposed rule, this committee was very 
thoughtful--and Scott just alluded to it--to make sure that the 
law would be crafted in a way that we get signal from the 
noise. You wanted the incidents that were going to be most 
impactful so that CISA could very quickly have the capability 
to take that information and turn it back around to share with 
other entities that could also be a risk.
    The very broad scope with which the proposed rule was put 
together would put a lot of noise out there and make that all 
the more challenging. For instance, the definition would 
potentially capture operational outages that have nothing to do 
with the cyber incident, and I don't think that that was really 
what you and the committee had intended in crafting that law.
    Ms. Clarke. Very well.
    Mr. Mayer, my time is up.
    Mr. Mayer. Yes. Thank you, Congresswoman Clarke. I think 
that we have to deal with the fact that the reporting 
requirements right now are extraordinarily fragmented. The CIRC 
itself, Cyber Incident Reporting Council, at the time, in 
September 2023, identified 45 different reporting regimes, 22 
agencies, I believe. I can only imagine that number has 
increased since then.
    CISA has indicated that they expect 300,000 entities to be 
responding to these kind of requests. I can only imagine with--
in the absence of clear definitions around the terms that you 
folks identified and staying close to the intent, in the 
absence of revising that and refining that and making it 
operationally practical for companies to respond, the system 
will get overwhelmed. The system in Government will get 
overwhelmed, and the system in the operating environment will 
also get overwhelmed.
    The critical point here is that during a major cyber 
incident when we are in a--essentially in a triage mode, we 
can't take people and divert them from their front-line 
responsibilities to detect the problem, remediate it, and 
respond and recover. So we believe that this particular rule 
needs to be reconstructed to align with your intentions, and if 
it doesn't, we're going to be doing more--as I indicated, it'll 
create more harm than good.
    Ms. Clarke. Very well.
    Mr. Schwartz. I agree with everyone on the panel in answer 
to the first question. On the second question, I'll just 
briefly say that on the definition of covered entities, CISA 
decided to kind-of try to narrow the scope by the size of the 
company--by going to the size of the companies, which I think 
does help in terms of removing some of the small, medium-sized 
businesses that we might not want to report, but it doesn't get 
to the risk issue, right. So you're going to have a lot of 
large companies, very large companies that have a lot of 
incidents, getting--echoing what we heard from others here, 
that are going to be reporting a lot that is not of the same 
value as if we did it based on some kind of risk feature.
    Ms. Clarke. Very well.
    Thank you for your indulgence, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Garbarino [presiding]. The gentlelady yields back.
    I now recognize the gentleman from Louisiana, Mr. Higgins, 
for 5 minutes of questions.
    Mr. Higgins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate this 
hearing today.
    I concur with Chairman Green; it's been excellent 
testimony, and I appreciate it. I'm going to review it very 
carefully.
    Mr. Chairman, in the 118th Congress, last Congress, I 
introduced a bill, H.R. 101023, the Streamlining Federal 
Cybersecurity Regulations Act, which essentially cut down on 
duplicated or misaligned regulatory requirements and 
authorities on the cybersecurity industry. I'll be 
reintroducing that bill shortly in the 119th Congress, and I 
look forward to my colleagues' support on both sides of the 
aisle with that bill.
    Because, Mr. Aaronson, how many Federal agencies, how many 
Federal cyber regulations is a typical energy company required 
to report to in a given year, just roughly?
    Mr. Aaronson. I mean, I'll just give you the agencies that 
we definitely have reporting requirements----
    Mr. Higgins. That list will be too long to enumerate. But 
you're talking about, just tell America, 2, 4, 10, a dozen?
    Mr. Aaronson. More than a dozen.
    Mr. Higgins. More than a dozen. The gentleman said more 
than a dozen cyber regulators require a report from the energy 
industry.
    Ms. Hogsett, how many Federal agencies does a bank need to 
file away to remain in good cybersecurity standing?
    Ms. Hogsett. We're similar and that's only at the Federal 
level. You also have States and international requirements to 
adhere to.
    Mr. Higgins. So at the Federal level, which we control, 
would you concur, Mr. Aaronson, somewhere north of 10 or a 
dozen?
    Ms. Hogsett. Yes.
    Mr. Higgins. Thank you.
    Mr. Mayer, similar question: How many Federal agencies does 
the telecommunications industry have to report to?
    Mr. Mayer. Yes, I would agree with the number of over a 
dozen, but----
    Mr. Higgins. Easily over a dozen.
    Mr. Mayer. Easily over a dozen.
    Mr. Higgins. Mr. Schwartz, do you have a comment there?
    Mr. Schwartz. For IT, I would say that it's----
    Mr. Higgins. It's a lot, right?
    Mr. Schwartz [continuing]. In the same range, but it's 
spread out because it's people reporting to the different 
sectors.
    Mr. Higgins. OK. So now that we've clarified that for 
America, the objective here for the U.S. Congress is to reduce 
that mess, so that the cybersecurity industry can actually 
perform its primary mission, which is to protect the Nation and 
the industries of the Nation from cyber attack, which we've 
become increasingly susceptible to as technologies emerge. 
While our cybersecurity industry is busy checking boxes that 
the Federal Government and bureaucracies has imposed upon the 
industry, they have that much less time to spend on that actual 
mission of protecting the Nation, the citizenry, and the 
industries of America.
    So how many of these agencies that require a report--we've 
agreed it is over a dozen--how many of them have streamlined 
themselves, like coordinated with each other and said, let's 
eliminate this and this and this and combine it into one? Has 
that ever happened, Mr. Aaronson?
    Mr. Aaronson. The Department of Energy has been fairly 
thoughtful. Because it's our sector risk management agency and 
it's nonregulatory, that has actually helped them to----
    Mr. Higgins. So within themselves, they've done some 
streamlining.
    Mr. Aaronson. To help----
    Mr. Higgins. Across the departments and agencies, have you 
seen a similar effort just organically?
    Mr. Aaronson. No, certainly not.
    Mr. Higgins. Thank you.
    Mr. Aaronson. Your oversight has helped.
    Mr. Higgins. Ms. Hogsett, has there been any organic effort 
from the bureaucracies to streamline and reduce themselves?
    Ms. Hogsett. Yes and no. The yes is, when it comes to 
incident notification, we have good coordination across 3 of 
our primary banking regulators. They aligned. There is a single 
standard, single definition, and you provide information to 
one----
    Mr. Higgins. They look for common definitions?
    Ms. Hogsett. Yes.
    Mr. Higgins. This is a good sign----
    Ms. Hogsett. It is. However----
    Mr. Higgins [continuing]. Within the banking industry.
    Ms. Hogsett. It is.
    Mr. Higgins. But there's a ``however'' here.
    Ms. Hogsett. There is. That is with respect to incident 
reporting specifically.
    Mr. Higgins. Ah, for an incident report.
    Ms. Hogsett. Broader cybersecurity we have even overlap and 
duplication among those agencies.
    Mr. Higgins. Roger that.
    Mr. Mayer.
    Mr. Mayer. Same story. I'm not aware of any major or 
significant----
    Mr. Higgins. Thank you. It was good to hear about the 
banking industry, but that's per incident reports. That's 
different. That's not total regulatory authority being 
streamlined.
    Mr. Schwartz.
    Mr. Schwartz. No. It's just been work to gather that.
    Mr. Higgins. OK. So, Mr. Chairman, this is why Congress 
must act to bring clarity to the regulatory authority. I will 
hand you for your review, Mr. Chairman, the bill from last 
year. I intend to introduce it in the 119th Congress in a 
slightly refined iteration, and I would appreciate your 
support.
    Mr. Aaronson, you had mentioned--we haven't had time for 
this question. You said that adversaries watch our response. Is 
it possible at all for the cybersecurity industry to strike 
back? If you said the adversaries are watching you, you must be 
able to identify the bad actor. Can you strike back at all 
against a bad actor?
    Mr. Aaronson. The private sector--well, I don't want to 
speak for the whole private sector.
    Mr. Higgins. Private sector.
    Mr. Aaronson. Electric companies do not want to be in 
offensive cyber engagements. That is the purview of the 
Government.
    Mr. Higgins. Well, we are going to probably give you that 
opportunity.
    Mr. Chairman, my time has expired. I will have questions to 
submit in writing to each of these witnesses, and I appreciate 
this hearing, sir.
    Mr. Garbarino. The gentleman yields back. We probably will 
have a second round of questions if you do--if you have time, 
but we will take them in writing, as well.
    Mr. Higgins. Thank you. They have to be in writing. I've 
got another committee.
    Mr. Garbarino. I thank the gentleman.
    I now recognize the Ranking Member, the gentleman from 
California, Mr. Swalwell, for 5 minutes of questions.
    Mr. Swalwell. Mr. Schwartz, how should CISA revise its 
comment process to better engage stakeholders, and how would 
you recommend CISA structure additional feedback opportunities 
to maximize stakeholder input without unduly delaying issuing a 
final rule?
    Mr. Schwartz. Yes. CISA has the tools today to do this, and 
Congress gave them the tools to engage with the private sector 
in a way that they can get direct advice on issues and do it 
under--protected from FACA, protected from Freedom of 
Information Act, so that companies can feel free to share and 
that it only goes into the process of writing this rule. They 
should use that as--to define their ex parte process. It is the 
CIPAC authority that provides them to do that, and that's 
exactly what we recommend that they do.
    Mr. Swalwell. To each witness--and feel free to jump in----
    Mr. Mayer. I'll start.
    Mr. Swalwell [continuing]. A decade ago--actually, sorry, a 
new question for each witness--Congress passed the 
Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act of 2015, which 
facilitates the voluntary sharing of cybersecurity information 
between the private sector and the Government. It expires, as I 
noted in my opening remarks, in September. What are the 
consequences of CISA expiring?
    Ms. Hogsett.
    Ms. Hogsett. I'll start. So the CISA 2015 protections 
really forming the foundation for how we collaborate not just 
with Government but also across industry to ensure that we are 
sharing necessary information to protect everybody. So it's a 
key foundation for our collective defense. It provides 
information-sharing protections, liability protections, 
antitrust protections. We've now had the benefit of that for 
the last 10 years, and I think over that time, we've certainly 
seen an increase in collaboration.
    I think our sector has always collaborated well within 
itself, but the expansion to across sectors and with other 
companies has been very valuable. We would hate to see that 
disappear and that we walk back some of the gains that we've 
made in that space. Also, as we noted earlier, CIRCIA itself 
with respect to incident reporting, refers back to the CISA 
2015 protections.
    Mr. Swalwell. Right.
    Ms. Hogsett. So as we're getting ready to share more 
sensitive information, more detailed information to the 
Government, we do want to make sure that it is well-protected.
    Mr. Swalwell. Yes, Mr. Mayer.
    Mr. Mayer. I'll go. Thank you. So at a minimum, we think 
it's absolutely essential that the CISA 2015 Act be 
reauthorized. As pointed out, I think we've learned things in 
the last 10 years, what has encouraged additional information 
sharing, what has constrained it, so there are opportunities to 
make enhancements improvements in the law.
    The cost of not doing this is monumental. It will cause 
companies to be very careful about what they submit, reluctant 
to submit with the protections that Heather alluded to, and 
we'll be undermining our national security if we don't have 
something in place to either continue it in its current form, 
but ideally to reflect what we've learned over the past decade.
    Mr. Swalwell. Yes, Mr. Schwartz.
    Mr. Schwartz. Yes. We've seen information sharing 
organizations grow around this law, and that they are 
specifically created--the Cyber Threat Alliance, for example, 
is specifically built around this law, that the way that the 
financial sector ISAC shares out with other groups, not 
internally but with other organizations is built around the 
pieces of this law. If this law disappears, they will have to 
redo what they--how they are structured, so we--and we will 
lose critical time just doing that. Then, as well----
    Mr. Swalwell. I'm OK--I would just say this, I'm OK with 
like--I believe in like the principles of sunk costs, and, 
like, just because you've been doing it doesn't mean that's----
    Mr. Schwartz. Yes.
    Mr. Swalwell [continuing]. The best way to do it. But, 
like, is it beneficial is my----
    Mr. Schwartz. But it will--it will definitely slow and, in 
some cases, totally stop information sharing that has prevented 
threats----
    Mr. Swalwell. Got it.
    Mr. Schwartz [continuing]. From--and prevented incidents 
from happening.
    Mr. Swalwell. Great.
    Mr. Schwartz. Thank you.
    Mr. Aaronson. So I want to slide in here. I agree with 
everything that my fellow panelists have said, so I would just 
associate myself with that. Those protections, the--I sort-of 
think of it north/south industry and Government sharing 
information. East/west across critical sectors has really grown 
up because of those protections in CISA.
    I also want to respond a little bit to something that Mr. 
Higgins was saying. Incident reporting and information sharing 
are both incredibly valuable, but understanding what the 
difference between those 2 things is. Information sharing is 
about on-going threats where we don't have full certainty of 
what an adversary might be doing. Sharing tactics, techniques, 
and procedures across critical sectors so we can all 
collectively defend is incredibly valuable.
    Incident reporting has value too. Once we know what that 
risk was, helping identify those patterns, helping to socialize 
those broadly, helping Government to set priorities, helping to 
set policy that is informed by what is actually happening in 
cyber space is incredibly valuable. So we like incident 
reporting. We like information sharing. It just needs to be 
done with protections and in an effective way that, again, 
Government can ingest all of this and not put undue burden on 
the people who are just trying to defend networks.
    Mr. Swalwell. I appreciate that.
    Yield back.
    Mr. Garbarino. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Gimenez, 
for 5 minutes of questions.
    Mr. Gimenez. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    Today I had actually a meeting with the airline industry 
and we talked about this issue. We asked about, OK, when they 
have an incident how many different reporting requirements. 
They have at least 10 different agencies that they have to 
report the same incident to, which seems a little bit 
inefficient.
    So--and I--you know, Mr.--you know, Representative Higgins 
asked the same question. You were saying it's 10, 12, et 
cetera.
    Would it make sense to have 1 form sent to 1 place and then 
that 1 place disseminate that information?
    Mr. Mayer. Can I start? It would absolutely make sense. 
It's critical----
    Mr. Gimenez. We're not going to do it then. OK, thanks. 
You're asking us to do the impossible.
    So, moving on, how many reportable incidents do you think 
there are? I guess you would know in your particular case, but 
across the United States how many reportable incidents do you 
think there are per day?
    Mr. Mayer. Per day?
    Mr. Gimenez. Per day, yes.
    Ms. Hogsett. What definition are you using, and what 
threshold?
    Mr. Gimenez. I mean something that requires a report, 
something that requires an industry to write a report. How many 
of those incidents occur per day here in the United States? 
Does anybody have any idea?
    Mr. Mayer. I would speculate--I'd take a guess here. I 
think over a thousand incidents would be reported daily.
    Mr. Gimenez. Over a thousand?
    Mr. Mayer. Over a thousand collectively across the entire--
our sector.
    Mr. Gimenez. Just your sector?
    Mr. Mayer. Just my sector.
    Mr. Gimenez. His sector. How about banking?
    Ms. Hogsett. I struggle to answer that because of the 
threshold. You have incidents or events that might occur 
constantly, but they don't necessarily rise----
    Mr. Gimenez. No, I'm saying report--I'm saying reportable. 
You have to report.
    Ms. Hogsett. We have notification requirements that are 
private, so I wouldn't even know. A firm wouldn't be able to 
tell me because they're not allowed to.
    Mr. Gimenez. Can you give me a guess?
    Ms. Hogsett. I would have to get back to you to have an 
informed response on that.
    Mr. Gimenez. OK. How about an uninformed response? Just, 
you know, give me a swag, OK?
    Ms. Hogsett. Honestly, I hesitate.
    Mr. Gimenez. OK. What about--OK. And energy?
    Mr. Aaronson. So the same thing Ms. Hogsett said. There are 
wildly different reporting requirements. There are some that, 
you know, a pretty low bar. There are some that have an 
extremely high bar.
    I can go back to the statistics that I know from one 
company that did a relatively deep dive on its reporting 
requirements, especially pursuant to CIRCIA's broadest 
definitions, and that was going to be 65,000 over 10 years.
    So that's one company, 65,000 incidents over 10 years. Six 
thousand five hundred a year, that's 500 a month. Trying to do 
the math here.
    Mr. Gimenez. Just one company?
    Mr. Aaronson. That's just one company.
    Mr. Gimenez. How many companies do you have?
    Mr. Aaronson. EEI represents 62 investor-owned electric 
companies.
    Mr. Gimenez. Sixty-two?
    Mr. Aaronson. That's right.
    Mr. Gimenez. So could I assume 62 times 500?
    Mr. Aaronson. Sure.
    Mr. Gimenez. Per day?
    Mr. Aaronson. Sure.
    Mr. Gimenez. Or is that a month?
    Mr. Aaronson. Well----
    Mr. Gimenez. Is that a month?
    Mr. Aaronson. That's also--that's one of our larger 
companies, and that was 500 a month. So maybe it might be easy 
to get to several thousand a month.
    Mr. Gimenez. Several thousand a month? OK. Does anybody 
know how this data is analyzed? No, nobody knows how it's 
analyzed. So we require you to send a bunch of stuff, but you 
guys don't know how it's analyzed by wherever it is we send it 
to. OK. I'll bet you it's not because of the overwhelming 
volume, all right?
    So we need to look at that, Mr. Chairman, OK? If you 
require them to do something and then we don't use the data for 
anything, then it's actually worse, right, because you're 
making them do stuff that nobody looks at.
    So we need to bring some other folks and say, how do you 
analyze all the data that you're getting that you require from 
everybody else to see that actually we're doing any good?
    Mr. Aaronson, you talked about--we asked about offensive 
capability. You don't have an offensive capability. You don't 
want to use offensive. You don't want to use offensive 
capability.
    Mr. Aaronson. So that's a pretty thorny topic. I'll go----
    Mr. Gimenez. No, I just want to ask would you like to use 
offensive capability?
    Mr. Aaronson. No, the private sector would not like--the 
electric companies would not like to get into----
    Mr. Gimenez. You just want to get punched over and over 
again, just get punched once and punched again and punched 
again.
    Mr. Aaronson. Well, this is where the Government comes in. 
So there are 2 ways you deter, right? Deterring, the attack 
does not have the intended consequence. That's on the private 
sector to protect its systems in a way that we can withstand a 
lot of punches.
    The other way you deter is an attack has a consequence, and 
we would believe that that is fully the purview of our 
intelligence and national security apparatus.
    Mr. Gimenez. But we don't have the resources to do that, I 
mean, all the time. So we would--what if we charged the--or 
allowed the private sector, with all their resources, et 
cetera, to allow to counter-punch. You wouldn't want that?
    Mr. Aaronson. So it depends how you define counter-punch. I 
don't want to speak for the banks, but this notion of inking 
the money bag, that could be construed as----
    Mr. Gimenez. My time is up, and hopefully we'll have 
another round because I really want to get into that one, OK?
    Thank you, and I yield back.
    Mr. Garbarino. The gentleman yields back. We will have 
another round.
    I now recognize myself for 5 minutes of questions.
    Thank you all for being here today, back again, I guess.
    In my submitted comment to former CISA Director Easterly on 
the CIRCIA notice of proposed rulemaking, I highlighted that 
Congress did not intend for CISA to subject numerous entities 
to its reporting requirements. Rather, Congress intended for 
CIRCIA to facilitate rapid information sharing, and I--that's 
not being achieved.
    So we're all here talking about it and what should happen 
with future CIRCIA.
    Ms. Hogsett, you said BPI sent a letter saying withdraw and 
reissue the rule. Mr. Aaronson and Mr. Mayer both said ex parte 
could be a way to do it.
    Mr. Schwartz, I'm sorry, I had to leave in the middle of 
your testimony so I don't know what position you took. What 
was----
    Mr. Schwartz. I'm with ex parte, yes.
    Mr. Garbarino. Ex parte. So do you believe--I mean, Ms. 
Hogsett, do you believe an ex parte could work? I understand we 
have a timing issue, which is the problem under the law. 
There's a timing issue, and I'm not sure we could meet the 
timing that the law requires if we fully withdraw and reissue.
    Can ex parte fix the issues?
    Ms. Hogsett. We would very much support an ex parte 
process. We asked for further engagement and never got it, 
frankly, through the process thus far.
    We believe that that rule, as proposed, should not be 
implemented, and we would rather take additional time. We are 
prepared to work with CISA and would like an iterative dialog 
to make sure that we get this right. It's too important.
    We stand ready. We want to see this be successful. So we--I 
think the stakeholder engagement, given the complexities of the 
issue here, we do need that. We just--that rule, as proposed, 
please do not implement that.
    Mr. Mayer. Mr. Chairman, I think that this committee can be 
very helpful in urging CISA to grant our request for ex parte, 
starting tomorrow. If we can work with the agency and provide 
our expertise and the information about how we operationalize 
incident reporting, that can be integrated into their rules in 
the fall. But if we don't have that possibility to engage with 
them, which they clearly rejected--time and time again we've 
made the request--I think this is going to go down a path 
that's going to be very problematic for CISA and 
extraordinarily burdensome and costly for our sector.
    Mr. Garbarino. As you said in your testimony, this will be 
more harm than good here.
    Mr. Mayer. Yes.
    Mr. Garbarino. I agree with all of you that this rule 
should not be implemented as currently presented, and if it was 
I would lead the effort to CRA it.
    But it's good to hear that you all think an ex parte could 
work, because I want this to work. I know the Ranking Member 
and the former Chair, Clarke, all want--they want this rule to 
work.
    This is a big focus of mine, a big focus of now Chairman 
Green's--I'm happy he was here today--harmonization, making 
sure incident and information sharing happens and happens in 
the correct way.
    So I want this rule to work, and I will be--following this 
hearing I'll work with committee staff on both sides to make 
sure that we reach out to CISA. I know they just nominated a 
new potential director this morning. I'm excited--no, not you. 
But Mr. Plankey I think could do a very good job. I've met with 
him. Director Easterly had very nice things to say about him. 
So I think--I think they may be willing to relook at this and 
move into an ex parte.
    One of you mentioned something, and I want to go with this 
because we talk about harmonization and how agencies don't 
listen to you all. One of you brought up the SEC rule. Maybe 
all of you brought up the SEC rule, which I've been fighting. 
We passed the CRA out of committee, but because the Senate 
moved so slow our time clock ran out over there. I know the 
Ranking Member was also against it.
    But one of you brought up the national security concerns, 
ONCD I think has national security concerns with that rule in 
your testimony. Can you speak to those, please? It might have 
been all of you that talked about it.
    Mr. Mayer. It may have been me who brought that up.
    So it's a perfect example of rules that don't add to 
security and, in fact, create vulnerabilities, as I mentioned. 
Bad guys, cyber criminals, enterprises can manipulate the 
process of disclosure in ways that certainly were not intended 
and will not be helpful.
    So, from a national security perspective, that particular 
rule, I am not sure it does anything to enhance our national 
security.
    Mr. Garbarino. Ms. Hogsett.
    Ms. Hogsett. I would actually say it probably harms our 
national security. I think this is the challenge that we've 
kind-of talked about now here is you have independent agencies 
that are doing something within their narrow lane. So for the 
SEC, they think that investors need to know this information.
    I think we would argue that investors aren't really 
utilizing this information. It's not helpful to them. It's 
actually putting them at greater risk. But because an agency 
continues to look without somebody at the top sitting across 
and exercising oversight to say, does this really make sense, 
is it in the best interests of the Nation, we wind up with a 
lot of these duplicative, overlapping, deeply harmful rules.
    So, to the extent that Congress and this committee is ready 
to engage and help lead this effort, we do need an overall view 
to look at what is helpful versus what is harmful, and the SEC 
rule is classic of what is harmful.
    Mr. Garbarino. I appreciate that. When I had Chairman 
Gensler in front of Financial Services, I asked him which was 
more important, investor knowledge or--if investor information 
was more important than national security. He said no.
    So I think now it's time for the new SEC to look at this 
rule and correct it, because I've been told by people at CISA 
and industry that they've had to stop sharing information 
before, timely information, in order to comply with the SEC 
rule. That is not good for anybody.
    I believe everybody who's been here for first round is 
done, so we're going to start a second round of questions.
    I recognize the Ranking Member from California, Swalwell, 
for his second round.
    Mr. Swalwell. I appreciate that, Chairman.
    Last week, the Secretary of Homeland Security disbanded 
more advisory committees at the Department, including CIPAC, 
the Critical Infrastructure Partnership Advisory Committee. For 
over 15 years, CIPAC has played a significant role in the 
implementation of the National Infrastructure Protection Plan 
and has facilitated coordination of critical infrastructure 
protection and resilience activities across all levels of 
Government and in partnership with the private sector.
    How will a termination of CIPAC affect the coordination of 
critical infrastructure protection activities? I'll just go 
across the witness table.
    Mr. Aaronson.
    Mr. Aaronson. Thank you, Ranking Member Swalwell.
    So the answer is it will depend on what it ultimately is 
replaced with. I understand every new administration gets the 
privilege of populating advisory committees. CIPAC is not an 
advisory committee. It is an authority that the Secretary of 
Homeland Security has to facilitate public-private partnership.
    To all the discussion we had about offensive versus 
defensive capabilities and resilience and the fact that 
industry and Government, again, 90 percent--as I mentioned in 
my opening comments, 90 percent, give or take, of critical 
infrastructure is owned by the private sector, this is a team 
sport.
    CIPAC is the rule book for how that--how those teams, 
industry and Government, can work collaboratively with 
protections, with the ability to have on-going dialogs, with 
sector coordinating councils that facilitate information 
sharing to prepare for and respond to all of these hazards.
    I will say the Electricity Subsector Coordinating Council 
has been a CEO-led body since after Superstorm Sandy in 2012. 
This isn't just about cyber. This is about storms and physical 
threats and all the things that can impact critical 
infrastructure, which impact our ability to provide services to 
customers and communities across the United States and be 
prepared for all of these risks. CIPAC or something like it is 
vital to our ability to use that partnership effectively.
    Mr. Swalwell. Does anyone have an answer different than 
that that they want to add?
    Mr. Schwartz. I'll just add that CIPAC is different. I 
strongly agree with Chairman Green's comments. There are too 
many advisory committees, and DHS has too many advisory 
committees. Getting rid of some of them made sense. As Mr. 
Aaronson said, this is not an advisory committee, right? It has 
the word ``Advisory Council,'' but it's not an advisory 
committee.
    The sectors organized themselves, right, and have their own 
bodies that then meet with the Government. That comes with the 
protections that that can happen in a way that provides for 
open discussions. We get more information from the Government 
because it exists. It is a good two-way conversation. It's been 
successful.
    All the nice things you've said about JCDC earlier, I agree 
with those. This is the policy equivalent of that, and it goes 
back even further and it's in some ways--we can talk about more 
success stories from it. That's all.
    Mr. Swalwell. Mr. Aaronson, I want to go back to something 
that Mr. Gimenez brought up, because I've thought about this 
for many years. I have a Congressional district that has a lot 
of tech and biotech companies, large and small, headquartered 
there, and they get hit all the time. I have Cowbell Cyber 
headquartered there. They do cyber insurance.
    It's long frustrated me knowing the limited resources that 
we have at Cyber Command and at the Bureau and at the NSA and 
CIA. I get the hesitancy for a business, even a large energy 
company, to go on offense. I'm imagining the concern is that if 
you do that, you're still going up against a large nation-state 
that could take you out. But--and then you're looking at forced 
retirements at some of these agencies that are happening right 
now, and so the resources are going to get even thinner.
    Is there an environment where we could credential third-
party cybersecurity contractors who could be offensive, and 
that could be utilized by small- and medium-size businesses, 
again, credentialed by the Government, bonded and insured, but 
also with liability protections that they would probably need 
to operate.
    It just seems, as Mr. Gimenez said, you're just getting 
punched in the face right now, and the best you can do is put 
up your hands and like protect yourself, but you're not really 
able to punch back. I don't know what the deterrent is on the 
other side if the U.S. Government isn't able to punch back 
against all those entities.
    If the Chairman would indulge me for his answer.
    Mr. Garbarino. Absolutely.
    Mr. Aaronson. It's something I'd want to take back to the 
sector. I think there's 2 concerns. You highlighted 1 of them, 
which is if you are punching back, now you are in effectively a 
fight with a potentially very well-resourced nation-state. As 
we've talked about, we're--many electric companies are 
resource-constrained even on defense. EEI's member companies, 
investor-owned electric companies, have a little bit better 
resource, but there's cooperatives and municipals across the 
sector as well. It could be--that's daunting. So that's one set 
of concerns.
    The other is not quite in response to what you said, but an 
escalating cyber war perpetrated by the private sector might 
have some unintended consequences. So it goes back to this 
being the team sport and the value of CIPAC and the value of 
CISA 2015 and the value of industry-Government partnership.
    Industry can be both defensive and resilient. So that the 
attack may happen, but we'll still be operational. We would 
really rely, much like we would in any land war, on our 
Government for it to be responsible for national security.
    Mr. Swalwell. I understand that concern. I guess the way I 
look at it, though, is it's not as if the resources that we 
have in the Federal Government are decreasing cyber attacks. 
It's actually going in the opposite direction. More and more 
people are getting hit.
    I'll yield back. I imagine Mr. Gimenez may go back.
    Mr. Garbarino. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize Mr. Gimenez from Florida for a second 
round.
    Mr. Gimenez. Thank you. Thank you for the tag team. Here we 
go. OK.
    Look, the only way that you're going to stop this is if the 
offensive party fears more the retaliation than what we do is 
just put up our hands and, gee, I hope you don't hurt me too 
bad.
    If you do that, just like nations, nations go to war. When 
they find somebody weaker, they're going to go to war and take 
it over. They find you just sitting there, OK, please don't hit 
me, they're going to hit you because there's no repercussion 
for it. There's no consequences for their action.
    So everything we've done, have cyber attacks been reduced? 
Are they going down or are they going up?
    Mr. Mayer. They're going up.
    Mr. Gimenez. They're going up. So whatever we're doing 
isn't working. Why? Because there's no consequences to their 
action.
    So eventually, we're going to have to go on offensive, and 
it's going to have to hurt them as much as it hurts you or 
actually maybe hurt them worse than what they hurt you.
    Yeah, you know, we in the Federal Government, we are not 
sourcing or putting up the necessary folks that it needs in 
order to protect you, because it's such a big domain. I think 
that the private sector, with its resources, both in terms of 
people and money, is going to have to be the way to go.
    How much is cyber attack, how much is that costing you? How 
much is it costing you all to protect against it or the damages 
caused by cyber attacks?
    Mr. Mayer. We're in the hundreds of millions of dollars of 
investment in cybersecurity technology and defensive 
capabilities.
    I will say that on the issue of what comes under the 
umbrella of active defense, there's a range of options. The 
most extreme one is letting private sector engage in hack 
backs.
    I think the issue is Government is doing something. They 
empowered U.S. Cyber Command to engage in offensive 
capabilities. We would support them in any effort where we have 
certain assurances and there are guardrails.
    What we don't want to do is deputize a front-line 
practitioner to respond in haste to an attack where we may not 
have the right attribution or there could be substantial 
repercussions.
    So this is an area that requires real close collaboration 
with Congress, with the intelligence community, with U.S. Cyber 
Command. I mean, we have to do that. I know----
    Mr. Gimenez. The only way that you're ever going to be 
assured, OK, that you're not--it's not going to have dire 
consequences is that you have to have a mutually assured 
destruction, OK?
    Mr. Mayer. The Government can do that.
    Mr. Gimenez. Well, I'm not sure they can, OK? So, you know, 
that's what worked. That was--you know, the MAD theory actually 
kind-of worked, because if you know that I can take you--if you 
do something to me I can destroy you too, you probably aren't 
going to pull that trigger, all right?
    If the other side feels that they can continually just 
hammer you and keep you in business, because they want you in 
business because they want to have the revenue and all that, 
but eventually when a nation-state says, OK, we're going to do 
the knockout blow and we don't have a knockout blow in 
response, they're going to knock you out, all right?
    So I don't know the best way. Maybe it is that we do 
something where we have this Cyber Force. You know, we have the 
Space Force now, now we have the Cyber Force that has offensive 
capabilities somehow funded through industry, or we have a 
third-party, you know, entity funded by industry that is 
deputized or given a warrant whenever there is--a retaliatory 
strike is authorized. Because, frankly, I just see this 
spiraling completely out of control.
    So anybody have any comments on that?
    Ms. Hogsett. I'll comment. I think what you're getting at 
is the need to use all the tools we have in the toolbox, 
whether that's offensive, defensive, diplomacy.
    Mr. Gimenez. Yes.
    Ms. Hogsett. One of the things Robert actually noted is the 
need for greater operational collaboration between industry and 
Government. Our firms will see things on their networks, but 
they don't necessarily have attribution that it is a specific 
national security threat actor. They would welcome a greater 
ability to work and share that with the appropriate authorities 
in Government to get feedback on that.
    Oftentimes, we think that there are things we see, there 
are things that Government sees that if we both knew what was 
happening we could better direct some of our activities. I 
think that would be to us the next step to really try to drive 
at combating this where it's happening.
    Mr. Gimenez. Mr. Chairman, my last comment--and I'm a 
little bit over time--is that this is--it's going to be an 
everybody, you know, on board effort, the Government and the 
private sector.
    Just like we fought the last world war, right? Everybody 
got on board and we're fighting, we're going in the same 
direction. I think that this is where it's heading, anyway.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Garbarino. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize the gentlelady from New Jersey, Mrs. 
McIver, for 5 minutes of questions.
    Mrs. McIver. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Ranking 
Member, and to the witnesses for joining us today on a nice 
day. Thank you for being here.
    A strong and timely cyber incident reporting framework is 
critical to our national security, which I'm sure you've heard 
multiple times and has been mentioned multiple times in today's 
committee hearing.
    CISA must move quickly to establish a process that engages 
the private sector, aligns with the distinct regulations and 
meets Congressional intent, all without delay. But we cannot 
achieve this without a robust Federal work force.
    With staff and resources being cut each and every minute, 
it's crucial we support the personnel needed to get this done. 
In order to properly implement CIRCIA--make sure, because 
CIRCIA and CISA kind-of gets me tied up--we'll need to have the 
staff and resources to process and analyze incident reports.
    I am concerned that any cuts to CISA's funding or staffing 
could leave it without the capacity to properly implement this 
crucial new program. To each witness, how important is it that 
CISA be adequately staffed and resourced to implement CIRCIA? 
What kind of funding and staffing is most important to properly 
implement?
    Mr. Schwartz. I would say it's taken a long time to get up 
to this point where we have adequate staffing at CISA, and we 
are concerned about cuts to CISA and what the impact will be, 
especially as they get more information like this.
    There is an effort to tie all the information together that 
they're getting from inside the Government, from contractors, 
and this information together.
    Being able to analyze that is going to be a big. It's going 
to take a lot--it's going to use a lot of AI, but it's also 
going to use a lot of human resources as well.
    Mrs. McIver. Thank you.
    Mr. Mayer. I would say it's not in my purview in terms of 
telling the Federal Government how to organize themselves right 
now. But we will continue to engage them. I think, for example, 
the partnership, if the rules are written in a way that is 
consistent with the intent of Congress, we could significantly 
reduce the amount of noise that would be generated in this 
information-sharing process. I think there would be 
opportunities for efficiency associated with getting back to 
that original intent.
    The other thing I'm just going to use this as an 
opportunity to share with you, that we talk about incident 
reporting, but it's connected to incident response and it's 
connected to how we engage in this process.
    One of the things I think we need help from you and 
potentially with ONCD is to have a single point of contact 
during a major crisis. Because right now the experience has 
been we're getting inundated with multiple agency requests 
during the crisis. We're even getting multiple requests within 
the Department, and then we're getting multiple requests to 
different pieces, parts of our operators or service providers.
    That has to stop. We have to really rationalize that and 
ask ourselves some serious questions here about how to organize 
this effort, how to engage in the appropriate information 
sharing.
    The last thing I'll say is, when it comes to CIRCIA, there 
was an assumption that there would be reciprocity, and we still 
have that assumption. So the benefit of submitting information 
is so the Government in real time or as quickly as possible 
comes back to us with mitigation guidance, new information on 
how to protect our networks.
    There's a lot of work to do here. I'm hearing that there's 
a lot of alignment in this subcommittee around how to reduce 
the inefficiencies associated with all of this.
    So we look forward to working with you, and hopefully we'll 
be working with CISA shortly on how to remedy some of the 
infirmities in the CIRCIA rule making.
    Mrs. McIver. Thank you so much for that, Mr. Mayer.
    I would assume that getting 1 point of contact would not be 
that difficult. Thank you.
    Mr. Mayer. You would think.
    Ms. Hogsett. We certainly want CISA and CIRCIA to be 
successful, and we are committed to that.
    For CIRCIA to work, CISA will need certain capabilities. 
That's not only technological, but also there is a human 
element to that. So we look forward to engaging with the new 
leadership once it is--once they are appointed and confirmed.
    Mrs. McIver. Thank you for that.
    Mr. Aaronson. The only thing I'd add, so people, processes, 
technology are going to be critical to the success of CIRCIA 
being implemented effectively. Let's not forget about the 
security of this really critical information.
    As incident reports are shared, that can be a road map to a 
potential threat actor. So we need to make sure that we're not 
just collecting this information but protecting it as well.
    Mrs. McIver. Thank you so much to each of you for those 
responses.
    With that, I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Garbarino. The gentlelady yields back.
    I now recognize myself for a second round of questions.
    Chairman Gimenez brought up before attacks are going up and 
you agreed, but are successful attacks going up or is the work 
that you all are doing on the Sector Coordinating Councils and 
preparation and work with CISA--I know attacks are going up, 
but are we seeing positive results from all the information 
sharing and the work that you're doing amongst each other?
    Mr. Schwartz. There are a lot of reports out there and they 
say different things. So some reports I've seen tend to suggest 
that we are being--that we are more successful and that the bad 
guys, there's just a lot more attacks so, therefore, the number 
of incidents goes up with it.
    Some have shown that in certain areas there are more 
successful attacks than there used to be, and so then we have 
to move more resources over to those.
    Mr. Mayer. What you propose and what you're discussing is 
there's a counterfactual element here in that we don't know 
what would happen in the absence of doing some of these 
activities.
    But I would say there's a lot of redundancy. There are a 
lot of reports that are produced within the Government that, in 
our view, don't lend themselves to security improvements. So we 
have to get better at thinking about how we use Government 
resources, how we use industry resources, focusing on what is 
the expected outcome that we're looking for. That will fix, I 
think, a lot of the noise in the system.
    Ms. Hogsett. I think there are mixed signals. I think it's 
hard not to overlook the fact that we are increasingly being 
attacked by nation-states.
    You have private industry that has very strong, very 
powerful nation-state actors infiltrating their systems. Even 
the best, most sophisticated private firm is going to struggle 
to deal with that.
    So I will say I think our capabilities have certainly 
improved. Our information sharing has improved. We can respond 
faster when things occur.
    We within the banking sector continue to see certain 
challenges and weak spots with third parties or vendors that we 
rely on, things that cut across multiple sectors and can be 
embedded in your infrastructure. Those areas can still be very 
challenging to deal with.
    Mr. Aaronson. I think Ms. Hogsett put it really well there, 
so I'll just associate with that.
    I'll give another example, though, of some really effective 
coordination that's happening where a nation-state may be 
responsible for an attack, private sector sees it, develops 
mitigation strategies, socializes those, and then works with 
Government to kind-of load the gun back for potential offensive 
operations should it become necessary.
    We've heard about all the different typhoons that are out 
there. Volt Typhoon was something that was impactful to--could 
have been impactful to the electric power sector; but because 
of industry being on the defensive and working with and across 
the Energy Threat Analysis Center and a lot of our partners in 
Government, we were able to identify that, develop a 
remediation strategy and socialize those for the benefit of all 
electric power sector participants.
    Mr. Garbarino. Thank you very much. I just want to say for 
the record I am supportive of Extending the Cyber Information 
Sharing Act of 2015, however we get that done, whether we 
include CISA actually in the legislation of the text, who is 
the priority lead. I just want to make sure we get it in front 
of the right committee in the Senate so it doesn't get bogged 
up like CIPAC did.
    I also want to say that you all brought--you listed some 
grave concerns today with CIPAC being disbanded. I mean, I've 
met with--Mr. Mayer, we've met and you've testified twice. You 
are the head of the Sector Coordinating Council. I have met 
with Ron Green, who's Financial Services, and Pedro Pizarro. 
They've already reached out. Edison International has already 
reached out to have a meeting.
    So I'm going to look into this and hopefully speak to the 
administration and try to fix this, because this is something 
we don't want industry not sharing information with us. We 
don't want industry not sharing information with each other, 
because when that happens it just increases the vulnerabilities 
that are out there.
    This is where I want to get to. There is a lot of--Mr. 
Mayer, you said it. There is a lot of duplicative paperwork and 
rules out there. You know, the idea behind CIRCIA was to get 
some harmonization on incident reporting, but that's not all we 
deal with.
    CIRCIA doesn't really have the teeth, though, to force 
other agencies to do it. Who does? I mean, who do we have run 
the harmonization effort? I think you said ONCD before, but 
who's got the actual juice to make these agencies fall in line?
    Mr. Mayer. That's a great question.
    Mr. Garbarino. You can all go.
    Mr. Mayer. Quickly. So this is the problem. We have 
multiple agencies committed to a mission. Cybersecurity has 
become an interesting area for their involvement. A lot of it 
is duplicative.
    We think that the was Office of the National Cyber 
Director, consistent with its statutory responsibility to 
coordinate some of these responsibilities, can play a 
significant role going forward in rationalizing this effort.
    In the absence of that, we're going to be still dealing 
with all of these silos, multiple reporting requirements, and 
they're just going to be duplicative and not effective.
    Ms. Hogsett. At this point, I think we need White House-
level leadership, because that's really the top-down to really 
effect change here. We are seeing some signs that it looks like 
the Office of Management and Budget may get more involved in 
this.
    So I think between OMB, Office of the National Cyber 
Director, which did do quite a bit of work on this to sort-of 
socialize the problem, the Cyber Incident Reporting Council 
that you all authorized in CIRCIA has put a lot of information 
out there. We just need someone sitting at the top to say, you 
guys need to rethink this.
    Mr. Aaronson. Congressional oversight is incredibly 
valuable. I don't know what the number is these days, but at 
one point it was like 37 different committees and subcommittees 
had responsibility for cyber in some way.
    I think that work that you guys are doing to coordinate the 
cyber subcommittees across Congress and then work with the 
agencies of jurisdiction to also harmonize, there's value there 
too.
    Mr. Schwartz. I agree on the OMB and ONCD approach. I think 
that's the way to go.
    Mr. Garbarino. Chairman Green is doing a great job, working 
with the--getting the committees of jurisdiction together. But, 
yes, I agree with you all. We need someone to be able to tell 
these guys to fall in line. We didn't really see that. We 
haven't seen that since I've been here.
    We need to keep up our oversight, but I promise we're going 
to work on ex parte for the CIRCIA rule, hopefully get that 
fixed. We will continue working on harmonization. I know the 
committee is working on a report that we can hopefully get to 
the administration, and they can start acting on making your 
lives more focused on cybersecurity and not finishing a report.
    So, with that, I want to thank the witnesses for their 
valuable testimony and the Members for their questions.
    The Members of the committee may have some additional 
questions for the witnesses, and we would ask the witnesses to 
respond to these in writing. Pursuant to committee rule VII(E), 
the hearing record will remain open for 10 days.
    Without objection, the committee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:43 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]



                           A P P E N D I X  I

                              ----------                              

              Statement of CTIA--The Wireless Association
                             March 11, 2025
    CTIA--The Wireless Association (``CTIA'')\1\ is pleased to submit 
this statement for the record in the hearing of the Subcommittee on 
Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Protection, Regulatory Harm or 
Harmonization? Examining the Opportunity to Improve the Cyber 
Regulatory Regime.\2\ This hearing is timely and of critical 
importance, given that there is much work to be done before the 
Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency's (``CISA'' or 
``agency'') can address stakeholder concerns and finalize its proposed 
Cyber Incident Reporting for Critical Infrastructure Act 
(``CIRCIA'')\3\ regulations.
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    \1\ CTIA--The Wireless Association (www.ctia.org) represents the 
U.S. wireless communications industry and the companies throughout the 
mobile ecosystem that enable Americans to lead a 21st-Century connected 
life. The association's members include wireless providers, device 
manufacturers, suppliers as well as apps and content companies. CTIA 
vigorously advocates at all levels of government for policies that 
foster continued wireless innovation and investment. CTIA represents a 
broad diversity of stakeholders, and the specific positions outlined in 
these comments may not reflect the views of all individual members. The 
association also coordinates the industry's voluntary best practices, 
hosts educational events that promote the wireless industry, and co-
produces the industry's leading wireless tradeshow. CTIA was founded in 
1984 and is based in Washington, DC.
    \2\ Regulatory Harm or Harmonization? Examining the Opportunity to 
Improve the Cyber Regulatory Regime: Hearing Before the H. Homeland 
Sec. Subcomm. on Cybersecurity and Infras. Prot., 118th Cong. 1 (2025) 
(``Regulatory Harm or Harmonization'').
    \3\ Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2022, Pub. L. No. 117-103, 
div. Y, Cyber Incident Reporting for Critical Infrastructure Act, 136 
Stat. 49, 1038-59 (2022), https://www.congress.gov/117/plaws/publ103/
PLAW-117publ103.pdf (codified at 6 U.S.C.  681b et. seq).
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    CTIA welcomes this opportunity to provide input to the committee to 
add the perspective of the wireless industry on CIRCIA specifically and 
cybersecurity policy more generally. CTIA and its members are invested 
partners with the Federal Government, developing operational and policy 
solutions on cybersecurity for decades. And CTIA members contend with 
duplicative, inconsistent, or contradictory incident reporting and 
other cybersecurity requirements and regulatory frameworks from 
multiple Federal agencies and an array of State entities. Based on this 
experience and expertise, CTIA urges Congress to consider how CISA can 
better fulfill its mission to help critical infrastructure owners and 
operators prepare for and respond to significant cyber incidents in an 
environment marked by serious nation-state adversary activity. In 
particular, we encourage Congress to:
   Help facilitate a forward-looking, stronger, and more 
        coordinated approach for the U.S. Government to respond to 
        serious cybersecurity incidents that have national security 
        implications, including promoting meaningful and actionable 
        information sharing on these sophisticated and sustained cyber 
        intrusions and attacks between industry and Government, without 
        undue regulatory requirements or liability exposure for 
        industry.
   With respect to the on-going CIRCIA rule making, carefully 
        evaluate and oversee the agency's decisions to: (1) Ensure a 
        more focused and harmonized cyber incident reporting framework 
        that allows companies that are victims of cyber incidents in 
        this growing threat landscape to focus on critical remediation 
        and response activities, rather than navigating overbroad 
        reporting requirements; and (2) enable stakeholder engagement 
        and collaboration through an ex parte process to reorient the 
        direction contemplated in CISA's Notice of Proposed Rulemaking 
        (``NPRM'').\4\
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    \4\ CISA, Cyber Incident Reporting for Critical Infrastructure Act 
(CIRCIA) Reporting Requirements, Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, 89 Fed. 
Reg. 23644 (Apr. 4, 2024) (``CISA NPRM'').
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 the wireless industry has been a leader on cybersecurity enhancement 
                           and collaboration
    CTIA has been engaged on cybersecurity policy for decades, bringing 
together industry stakeholders to address issues in multiple fora. 
CTIA's Cybersecurity Working Group (``CSWG'') convenes all parts of 
wireless--service providers, manufacturers, and wireless data, 
internet, and applications companies--to facilitate innovation, 
research, and cooperation in response to threats.\5\
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    \5\ See CTIA, About CTIA: Cybersecurity Working Group, https://
www.ctia.org/cybersecurity-working-group (last visited Mar. 11, 2025).
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    Through the CSWG, CTIA and its members have been leaders in 
partnering with the Government. For example, the Department of Homeland 
Security (``DHS'') has long been the sector risk management agency 
(``SRMA'') for the Communications Sector,\6\ and CTIA members have 
worked with CISA and its predecessor agencies for years, including on 
developing cross-sector cybersecurity performance goals (``CPGs'')\7\ 
and identifying critical functions and assets for the Communications 
Sector.\8\ CTIA and its members collaborate with a wide array of other 
Federal partners, including the Federal Communications Commission 
(``FCC'') and its Communications Security, Reliability, and 
Interoperability Council (``CSRIC''), the National Institute for 
Standards and Technology (``NIST''), and the White House.
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    \6\ See CISA, Sector Risk Management Agencies, https://
www.cisa.gov/topics/critical-infrastructure-security-and-resilience/
critical-infrastructure-sectors/sector-risk-management-agencies (last 
visited Mar. 11, 2025).
    \7\ Comments of CTIA, Cross-Sector Cybersecurity Performance Goals 
and Objectives, Final CPGs, GitHub Submission (filed Feb. 15, 2023), 
https://github.com/cisagov/cybersecurity-performance-goals/discussions/
40.
    \8\ CISA, Executive Order 13873 Response: Methodology for Assessing 
the Most Critical Information and Communications Technologies and 
Services (Apr. 2020), https://www.cisa.gov/sites/default/files/
publications/eo-response-methodology-for-assessing-ict_v2_508.pdf 
(``CISA EO 13873 Response'').
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    CTIA is also a leader in operationalizing security standards for 
the benefit of consumers, manufacturers, and operators. As key 
examples:
   CTIA manages a 5G Security Test Bed, which brings together 
        ``wireless providers, equipment manufacturers, cybersecurity 
        experts, and academia to demonstrate and validate how 5G 
        security will work, using real 5G networks.''\9\
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    \9\ 5G Security Test Bed, LLC, 5G Security Test Bed, https://
5gsecuritytestbed.com/ (last visited Mar. 11, 2025).
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   CTIA's Internet of Things (``IoT'') Cybersecurity 
        Certification Program establishes a baseline for IoT device 
        security on wireless networks and uses widely adopted standards 
        from NIST, among others.\10\
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    \10\ CTIA Certification, IoT Cybersecurity Certification, https://
ctiacertification.org/program/iot-cybersecurity-certification/ (last 
visited Mar. 11, 2025).
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    CTIA has been engaged in every major Federal cybersecurity 
rulemaking and policy issue for the last 15 years, including but not 
limited to proceedings at the FCC, the Securities and Exchange 
Commission (``SEC''), the Federal Trade Commission (``FTC''), and the 
Department of Defense (``DoD''). CTIA members know first-hand how the 
agencies are approaching complex questions of cybersecurity and data 
governance in regulation and other activity.
    Likewise, for more than a decade, CTIA has been engaged in 
legislative discussions about cybersecurity impacting wireless, urging 
Congress for years to preserve and enhance the vital partnerships that 
make effective cyber readiness and response possible. For example, CTIA 
supported the landmark Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act of 2015 
(``CISA 2015''), which provides an essential foundation for voluntary 
collaboration on cybersecurity and includes important liability and 
confidentiality protections for private companies who volunteer 
information to DHS.\11\
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    \11\ 6 U.S.C.  681b. CISA 2015 sunsets in October 2025. CTIA 
supports reauthorization of the CISA 2015 with an expansion of the 
range of information and activities protected and additional liability 
protections.
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    As Congress considered cyber incident reporting requirements in 
what became CIRCIA, CTIA, like others in the private sector, urged 
Congress to take a targeted and risk-based approach to reporting that 
focused on the most impactful incidents affecting the most critical 
companies.\12\ CTIA and other stakeholders have called on CISA to do 
the same.
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    \12\ CISA EO 13873 Response, supra note 8.
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 congress has an important role to play to ensure a stronger and more 
   coordinated approach for responding to national security incidents
    As sophisticated cybersecurity threats--including but not limited 
to threats from nation-state adversaries--continue to pose serious 
cybersecurity and national security risks to the Communications Sector 
and others throughout critical infrastructure, it is critical that the 
Federal Government iterate its deterrence and response approaches and 
establish processes that meet the evolving threats our Nation is facing 
now and will continue to face in the future. Key principles that should 
guide this forward-looking approach include:
   Coordination among Federal agencies and between Federal 
        agencies and industry must be improved.--CTIA agrees with 
        USTelecom's testimony calling for a single ``Responsible 
        Agency'' that in the wake of a national security event will be 
        responsible for coordinating with the private sector and 
        overseeing Government information sharing with respect to that 
        event.\13\ While the current structure for invoking the Unified 
        Coordination Group (``UCG'') is intended to achieve this goal, 
        there continue to be significant challenges with interagency 
        coordination in the wake of major incidents. Congress should 
        work with the administration to (1) establish a single 
        Responsible Agency when an incident rises to the level of 
        forming a UCG; (2) prohibit duplicative and contradictory 
        requests or investigations from other Government agencies; and 
        (3) establish stronger protections for information that is 
        shared with the Responsible Agency and tighter parameters for 
        how information is shared between the Responsible Agency and 
        other agencies, to ensure that such information is not leaked 
        and is not subject to disclosure under the Freedom of 
        Information Act (FOIA) or State laws.
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    \13\ Regulatory Harm or Harmonization, supra note 2 (Statement of 
Robert Mayer, Senior Vice President, Cybersecurity and Innovation, 
USTelecom, The Broadband Association) (``Mayer Testimony'').
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   Victim companies should not face undue regulatory 
        requirements or liability exposure.--Further, Congress should 
        ensure that victim companies do not face undue, burdensome 
        requirements, which only serve to divert resources away from 
        responding to and mitigating the impacts from the incident. To 
        this end, and as USTelecom testified,\14\ Congress should 
        ensure that the Responsible Agency has the authority to suspend 
        all Federal and State reporting requirements, upon finding that 
        doing so in the wake of a national security incident serves the 
        national interest. This will reduce the risk that highly 
        sensitive information is disseminated haphazardly across 
        various Federal and State agencies, and will address the 
        fundamental flaws with the current fragmented reporting 
        ecosystem--described in more detail below--at a time when 
        harmonization is critically necessary, in the wake of a serious 
        national security incident. Further, Congress should ensure 
        that victim companies are not subject to liability for such 
        national security incidents. To this end, Congress should 
        consider establishing a safe harbor for companies that have 
        reasonable cybersecurity risk management programs that are 
        consistent with NIST's Cybersecurity Framework 2.0, and it 
        should ensure that information that companies share with the 
        Responsible Agency cannot be used against such companies in 
        regulatory enforcement or civil litigation.
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    \14\ Mayer Testimony (Mar. 11, 2025).
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   The Federal Government should establish a National 
        Deterrence Strategy. There is a need to increase the cost on 
        the People's Republic of China and other foreign adversaries so 
        they cannot operate with impunity. To this end, the White 
        House, in consultation with relevant agencies, should develop a 
        National Deterrence Strategy with the goal of leveraging an 
        all-of-Government approach to increase the costs for these bad 
        actors, including but not limited to diplomatic, financial, and 
        other means.
   The Federal Government should harmonize the development and 
        imposition of baseline cybersecurity requirements. Across the 
        Federal Government, agencies have sought to address 
        cybersecurity by imposing a patchwork of extensive, often 
        conflicting or duplicative, baseline cybersecurity 
        requirements. These are in addition to the extensive patchwork 
        of incident-reporting requirements at the Federal and State 
        levels. At the FCC alone, CTIA addressed 4 different regulatory 
        proceedings over the last 2 years that proposed 4 different 
        approaches to cybersecurity baseline requirements.\15\ Last 
        session, Senators Peters and Lankford and Representative 
        Higgins proposed legislation in an effort to address this 
        whole-of-Government challenge through the creation of a 
        harmonization committee to study and implement a pilot 
        program.\16\ In the wake of increasing threats, it is 
        imperative that Congress consider approaches that will speedily 
        and effectively ameliorate this regulatory blind spot, 
        compelling executive and independent agencies to harmonize 
        their cybersecurity requirements, including by instructing them 
        to use the NIST Cybersecurity Framework 2.0, which would 
        collectively increase our national security and ensure the use 
        of resources for security instead of compliance.
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    \15\ See, e.g., Comments of CTIA, Protecting the Nation's 
Communications Systems from Cybersecurity Threats, PS Docket No. 22-
329, (filed. Jan. 24, 2023), https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/search/search-
filings/filing/1012468668036; Comments of CTIA, Review of International 
Section 214 Authorizations to Assess Evolving National Security, Law 
Enforcement, Foreign Policy, and Trade Policy Risks, Order and NPRM, IB 
Docket No. 23-119 (filed Aug. 31 2023), https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/
document/108311863500689/1; Comments of CTIA, Connect America Fund: A 
National Broadband Plan for Our Future High-Cost Universal Service 
Support, WC Docket No. 10-90 et. al., (filed Dec. 12, 2023) https://
www.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/1212267425956/1; Comments of CTIA, 
Establishing a 5G Fund for Rural America, GN Docket No. 20-32, (filed 
Oct. 23, 2024) https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/102322146024/1.
    \16\ Streamlining Federal Cybersecurity Regulations Act, S. 4630, 
118th Cong. (2024), https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/
senate-bill/4630; H.R. 10123, 118th Cong. (2024), https://
www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/10123?s=1&r=1 
(companion bill).
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congress should ensure that cisa's implementation of circia honors the 
                         direction of congress
    As CTIA has advised CISA, the agency's CIRCIA rules should focus on 
the most serious incidents and should take concrete steps to harmonize 
the deeply fragmented Federal incident reporting landscape. There are 
several important areas where CISA can address these and other critical 
issues.
    CISA Should Take a More Targeted Approach to the CIRCIA 
Rulemaking--Heeding Its Statutory Mandate to Focus on Substantial 
Incidents and Avoiding Rules that Will Result in Overreporting.--Taken 
together, CISA's proposed rules to implement CIRCIA raise serious 
issues. If adopted, they would impose enormous costs on the private 
sector and inundate CISA with information of limited value and utility. 
Accordingly, as many stakeholders have consistently urged, CISA should 
take the opportunity to adapt and adjust its proposal, honor the 
direction of Congress in CIRCIA, and minimize disruption to existing 
public-private partnerships. CTIA is optimistic that CISA wants to get 
this right and will heed the numerous public comments submitted in 
response to its NPRM to ensure that covered entities can provide 
meaningful, actionable information, while minimizing the burden on 
victims of cybersecurity incidents to generate, report, and update 
voluminous and ever-changing information. Toward this goal, there are 
several areas of concern that the committee should work with CISA to 
improve:
   CISA should revisit its overly broad proposed definition of 
        substantial cyber incident.\17\ Unfortunately, in the NPRM, 
        CISA proposed an economy-wide incident reporting regime that 
        would inundate the agency with reports about an array of events 
        that extend well beyond what is needed for CISA to satisfy its 
        statutory directives to render assistance to victims of serious 
        incidents and share information with network defenders to warn 
        other potential victims of serious threats. Consistent with 
        stakeholder feedback from CTIA and others to take a more 
        focused approach, and consistent with the statutory guidance 
        requiring consideration of the impact of an incident, CISA 
        should rethink its definition of substantial cyber incident and 
        adopt a definition that ties a substantial cyber incident to an 
        impact on critical infrastructure that harms national or 
        economic security.\18\ Further, CISA should limit the 
        definition of substantial cyber incident to the system or 
        network that a covered entity needs to provide the products or 
        services that make it a part of critical infrastructure, and 
        CISA should exclude any incidents that do not involve the U.S. 
        critical infrastructure facility or function.
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    \17\ CISA NPRM at 23767, Proposed  226.1.
    \18\ CTIA proposed edits to the definition of ``substantial 
incident'' in Appendix A of its comments. Comments of CTIA, Cyber 
Incident Reporting for Critical Infrastructure Act (CIRCIA) Reporting 
Requirements, Dkt. No. CISA-2022-0010, at App. A (July 3, 2024), 
https://www.regulations.gov/comment/CISA-2022-0010-0422.
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   CISA should also reframe its definition of covered entity, 
        which is similarly too broad and will result in over-
        reporting.\19\ CISA should limit mandatory reporting to a 
        critical infrastructure facility or function and not require 
        reports from the entire entity, as CISA proposed to do in its 
        NPRM.\20\ Failure to limit the definition of covered entity 
        will substantially increase the volume of reportable incidents 
        because incidents affecting non-critical business units or 
        operations will be swept into the CIRCIA framework. Further, 
        CISA should clearly define ``entity'' to clarify a parent 
        company may not be a ``covered entity'' if it has a sub-entity 
        that is distinct from the parent company, has ``legal standing 
        and is uniquely identifiable from other entities,''\21\ and 
        meets the definition of ``covered entity.''
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    \19\ CISA NPRM at 23684, Proposed  226.2.
    \20\ Id.
    \21\ Id. at 23676.
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    CISA Has the Opportunity to Make Meaningful Progress Toward 
Harmonization and Deconfliction, Consistent with Congress's Direction 
in CIRCIA.--Congress emphasized harmonization in the passage of CIRCIA, 
launching substantial work through the Cyber Incident Reporting Council 
(``CIRC'') to identify opportunities to address the problematic 
fragmentation of cyber incident reporting obligations. This makes sense 
and is good government. In the Communications Sector alone, companies 
are subject to multiple overlapping incident reporting obligations that 
can include rules from the SEC, FCC, DoD, FTC, and more. These Federal 
rules are in addition to State regulations that include data breach 
notice obligations in all States and territories, as well as cyber 
incident reporting requirements like those required by the New York 
Department of Financial Services.
    The CIRC issued a report in 2023 that identified the multiplicity 
of cyber incident reporting requirements and offered ``key 
recommendations'' including creating a model cyber incident reporting 
form that Federal agencies can adopt; and streamlining the reporting 
and sharing of information about cyber incidents, and a potential 
single reporting web portal.\22\
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    \22\ DHS, Harmonization of Cyber Incident Reporting to the Federal 
Government, (Sept. 19, 2023), https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/
2023-09/Harmonization%20of%20Cyber%20- 
Incident%20Reporting%20to%20the%20Federal%20Government.pdf.
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    Unfortunately, however, CISA missed the opportunity to make 
progress to address fragmentation with its NPRM. Indeed, CISA received 
comments from the Congressional sponsors of CIRCIA and critical 
infrastructure stakeholders in response to its NPRM that were critical 
of the agency's failure to promote and pursue meaningful harmonization 
of incident reporting obligations.\23\ To help address this, CISA 
should take the opportunity now to fulfill the harmonization promise of 
CIRCIA. In particular:
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    \23\ Comments of Andrew Garbarino (R-NY), Chairman, H. Homeland 
Sec. Subcomm. on Cybersecurity and Infras. Prot., Dkt. No. CISA-2022-
0010 (July 3, 2024), https://www.regulations.gov/comment/CISA-2022-
0010-0464; Comments from Bennie Thompson (D-MS), Ranking Member, H. 
Homeland Sec. Comm., Eric Swalwell (D-CA), Ranking Member, H. Homeland 
Sec. Subcomm. on Cybersecurity and Infras. Prot. & Yvette Clarke (D-
NY), Dkt. No. CISA-2022-0010 (Jul. 3, 2024), https://
www.regulations.gov/comment/CISA-2022-0010-0463; Comments of Gary 
Peters (D-MI), Chairman, S. Homeland Sec. and Gov't Aff. Comm., Dkt. 
No. CISA-2022-0010 (Jul. 2, 2024), https://www.regulations.gov/comment/
CISA-2022-0010-0424.
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   CISA should reconsider its proposed approach to addressing 
        reporting regimes that are ``substantially similar.''\24\ 
        Harmonization should not be limited to formal agreements with 
        other agencies that are predicated on their adoption of the 
        same demands that CISA included in its NPRM.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \24\ 6 U.S.C.  681b(a)(5)(B)(i) (creating an exception for a 
covered entity ``required by law, regulation, or contract to report 
substantially similar information to another Federal agency within a 
substantially similar time frame.'').
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   CISA should create a voluntary option for covered entities 
        to use a single point of entry and single Common Form for 
        Federally-mandated cyber incident reports. Having a single 
        Federal agency to report to during substantial cyber incidents 
        with national security implications is essential for critical 
        infrastructure organizations who will have ``all hands on 
        deck'' dedicated to incident response with the priority to 
        secure networks and systems. Requiring victim companies to 
        report to multiple Government agencies with disparate 
        requirements within condensed time frames would be detrimental 
        to these efforts, requiring redirection of vital security 
        resources away from incident response. Accordingly, harmonizing 
        these requirements through reporting to a single agency via a 
        single Common Form will provide meaningful relief to victim 
        organizations struggling with incident response.
    There Are Other Important Steps CISA Should Take to Improve and 
Focus the Incident Reporting Requirement.--Although not an exhaustive 
list, there are a number of other aspects of CISA's proposed rules that 
should be re-evaluated.
   CISA should streamline the information required in reports 
        because as drafted, the NPRM would mandate far too much 
        information with too little clarity. The proposed reporting 
        fields in the NPRM call for too much detail, including 
        information that is not relevant or actionable, such as the 
        name and role of third-party vendors helping with the 
        incident.\25\ The NPRM also uses vague, undefined terms and 
        calls for details that are unclear or indeterminate. The 
        proposed on-going supplementation of an initial incident report 
        will be burdensome and may not provide additional information 
        of value.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \25\ CISA NPRM at 23722.
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   The proposed data retention obligations are drafted broadly 
        and will be burdensome in scope, duration, and governance 
        obligations.\26\ Because of the vast amounts of network traffic 
        that communications providers transmit, retention for 2 years 
        of information may make the retention obligations untenable.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \26\ Id., Proposed  226.13.
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   CISA's enforcement approach misses an opportunity to protect 
        victims and promote partnerships. It would substitute the 
        collaborative relationship CISA currently has with critical 
        infrastructure for what the NPRM suggests may be the agency's 
        predisposition to take a punitive or adversarial approach.
   CISA should adopt adequate protections for all information 
        submitted to the agency under CIRCIA including information in 
        response to a request for information or subpoena. Further, the 
        existence of such a request for information or subpoena itself 
        should be treated as confidential.
    Congress Should Encourage CISA To Establish Processes to Solicit 
and Meaningfully Incorporate Public Feedback.--To date, there has not 
been ample opportunity for stakeholders to meaningfully engage with 
CISA in developing the CIRCIA rules. Given the breadth and detail of 
the NPRM, a single opportunity for comment on the proposed rules is not 
sufficient to provide CISA with public input. Among other things, CISA 
should create a process for ex parte communications in the CIRCIA rule-
making proceeding--as is common practice for other regulatory 
agencies.\27\
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    \27\ Chairman Garbarino and Ranking Member Swalwell both spoke in 
support of the adoption of an ex parte process for the CIRCIA rule 
making during the March 11 hearing. ``I promise we're going to work on 
ex-parte through the CIRCIA rule, hopefully get that fixed.'' 
Regulatory Harm or Harmonization, supra note 2. (Statement by Chairman 
Garbarino). ``I also called on CISA [in comments on the NPRM] to 
establish an ex parte process to facilitate on-going engagement with 
the private sector.'' Id. (Statement by Ranking Member Swalwell).
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                                 ______
                                 
    CTIA and its members look forward to working with this committee, 
as well as the administration, to develop a more coordinated, forward-
looking approach to responding to serious national security incidents, 
a more workable reporting regime, and a more harmonized cybersecurity 
landscape across the Federal Government.



                          A P P E N D I X  I I

                              ----------                              

   Questions From Chairman Andrew R. Garbarino for Scott I. Aaronson
    Question 1. How does your sector view the role of regulation? What 
is the importance of regulation for your industry?
    Answer. The electricity subsector employs a risk-based, defense-in-
depth approach to cybersecurity, which includes a variety of tools and 
strategies that support existing voluntary and mandatory cybersecurity 
standards and regulations. These regulatory standards are valuable 
tools that set a baseline for cybersecurity of critical infrastructure 
for all jurisdictional owners and operators of the Bulk Power System 
that supports the interconnected North American energy grid. Electric 
companies work closely with the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission 
(FERC), the North American Electric Reliability Corporation (NERC), the 
Transportation Security Administration (TSA), and the Department of 
Energy (DOE) to comply with various sector regulations and reporting 
requirements.
    Throughout the country, investor-owned electric companies are 
meeting and exceeding existing cybersecurity regulations and standards. 
As the Federal Government, States, and private sector work together to 
reduce risk holistically and continue to enhance cybersecurity 
protections of critical infrastructure, it is important that new 
cybersecurity requirements are not duplicative, conflicting, 
overlapping, or inefficient.
    Regulations that are risk-based, while important, are only one part 
of this defense-in-depth strategy. EEI's members also focus on 
resilience, response, and recovery as strategies that help electric 
companies protect the electric grid. We also need to have strong 
partnerships in place across key, interdependent sectors and with 
Government in order to maintain the robust cybersecurity posture needed 
to face the realities of potential cyber warfare.
    Question 2. How can the Trump administration ensure it incorporates 
industry feedback as it seeks to streamline the cyber reporting regime?
    Answer. The Trump administration may consider existing public 
comments made on behalf of industry as it seeks to streamline cyber 
reporting. As mentioned in my testimony, EEI submitted comments on the 
Office of the National Cyber Director's (ONCD) Request for Information 
on Cybersecurity Regulatory Harmonization. In summary, EEI's comments 
recognized that cybersecurity regulations must keep pace with the 
evolving threat landscape but must also be developed in close 
coordination with the private sector to ensure we can implement them 
effectively.
    EEI also submitted 3 sets of comments on the proposed rule for the 
Cyber Incident Reporting for Critical Infrastructure Act of 2022 
(CIRCIA). In summary, these comments requested that the Cybersecurity 
and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) raise the threshold and limit 
the scope of the definition of a ``substantial cyber incident.'' In 
addition, EEI and several other critical infrastructure sectors also 
requested CISA implement an ex parte process for the CIRCIA rule 
making.
    In addition to these public comments, the administration may 
consider the recommendations in Cyber Incident Reporting Council's 
(CIRC) Report on Harmonization of Cyber Incident Reporting to the 
Federal Government when incorporating feedback on streamlining 
reporting.
    Question 3a. How has the cyber incident reporting process helped or 
hindered your ability to effectively respond to nation-state threats 
such as Volt Typhoon?
    Question 3b. What changes, if any, to cyber incident reporting 
would improve your ability to respond to nation-state threats?
    Question 3c. Can cyber incident reporting serve as a tool for 
understanding cross-sector trends for actors such as Volt Typhoon? If 
yes, how so?
    Answer. Both the cyber incident-reporting process and the cyber 
information-sharing process have helped the electric power sector 
implement successful mitigation efforts in the face of threats such as 
Volt Typhoon. Specifically, the Energy Threat Analysis Center (ETAC) 
has proven its capabilities by enabling critical information sharing 
following the Federal Government's release of threat intelligence 
related to Volt Typhoon. The expertise of the private sector was 
leveraged to develop mitigation strategies quickly that ultimately 
helped members of the electricity subsector, and other critical 
infrastructure operators, to address the threats from Volt Typhoon. 
This model is critical to our success in combatting sophisticated cyber 
adversaries and is helped by open lines of communication, highlighting 
the difference between threat information sharing and regulatory 
reporting requirements.
    Streamlining Federal cyber incident reporting requirements through 
fewer agencies would allow our most skilled cyber experts to spend 
their time responding to nation-state threats rather than filling out 
paperwork.
    One of the stated goals of the original CIRCIA legislation was to 
strengthen national security, including through rapidly deploying 
resources to victims, analyzing reporting across sectors to spot 
trends, and then quickly sharing that information to warn other 
potential victims. The final CIRCIA rule has the potential to create 
greater visibility into cross-sector risk, however, the proposed rule 
as written does not sufficiently separate the signal from the noise and 
thus would not be useful in understanding cross-sector trends for 
actors such as Volt Typhoon. CISA, as the national coordinator, should 
amend the definition of a substantial cyber incident in the proposed 
CIRCIA rule in order to glean greater insight into cross-sector risk.
    Question 4. According to CISA, the total estimated cost of 
completing incident reports from 2024 to 2033 is approximately $79.1 
million--just short of $8 million per year. Please explain whether you 
agree with CISA's estimate.
    Answer. Redundant regulations add to electric companies' 
operational costs and misallocate limited resources from the industry's 
core obligation--namely, to provide safe, reliable, and affordable 
service to customers. EEI testified that one of our member electric 
companies estimated they could file roughly 65,000 reports through 2033 
under the proposed rule--vastly exceeding CISA's estimate of more than 
200,000 total reports during that period. Accordingly, CISA's cost 
estimate of approximately $79.1 million from 2024 to 2033 is far too 
low.
    Question 5. How can Congress ensure CISA has the tools it needs to 
manage the information received from CIRCIA requirements if/when the 
rule goes into effect?
    Answer. CISA faces several challenges in improving the existing 
proposal to better align with Congressional intent. These include 
difficulties in collaborating with industry stemming from the lack of 
an established ex parte process, as well as issues related to natural 
attrition and staff turnover following the change in administration. 
Additionally, uncertainty around Congressional appropriations may 
impact CISA's ability to effectively intake incident reports by the end 
of 2025.
    To ensure CISA is well-equipped to manage the information received 
from CIRCIA, Congress may consider conducting oversight regarding its 
current status--including staffing levels, resource needs, the 
projected time line for final rule completion, and anticipated future 
engagement with industry stakeholders. Specifically, Congress should 
pursue oversight to ensure that CISA has the appropriate infrastructure 
in place to intake a high volume of incident reports and secure this 
sensitive information accordingly.
    Question 6. How can Congress support cyber risk management 
regulatory harmonization?
    Answer. As stated in my testimony, Congress should work with CISA 
to reduce the burden of the proposed CIRCIA rule and focus on a few 
areas for improvements.
    First, conduct oversight regarding the current status of CIRCIA, 
including staffing levels, resource needs, the projected time line for 
final rule completion, and anticipated future engagement with industry 
stakeholders.
    Second, facilitate coordination amongst Congressional committees of 
jurisdiction to align CISA, Sector Risk Management Agencies, and other 
regulators, and to review concerns with existing Federal reporting 
requirements, including the national security concerns associated with 
the public disclosure of incidents required by the U.S. Securities and 
Exchange Commission (SEC).
    Third, further clarify CISA's role in cybersecurity regulatory 
harmonization in relation to other Federal entities.
    Fourth, reauthorize the Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act of 
2015. Mandatory incident reporting and voluntary information sharing 
both are valuable tools in ensuring the cybersecurity of critical 
infrastructure.
    Question 7. Is there a need to ensure cybersecurity regulations 
impacting one sector do not negatively impact other dependent sectors? 
Please explain.
    Answer. Currently, CISA serves as the National Coordinator for the 
Security and Resilience of Critical Infrastructure, pursuant to 
Presidential Policy Directive-21 and its successor document, National 
Security Memorandum-22. As national coordinator, CISA is charged with 
leading a whole-of-Government effort to secure U.S. critical 
infrastructure. As part of this role, CISA has a duty and an obligation 
to ensure any new or existing regulations do not negatively impact 
other dependent sectors.
    In addition, ONCD has a role to play in ensuring cybersecurity 
regulations do not negatively impact other dependent sectors. As an 
office within the White House, ONCD has a unique role in bringing 
independent regulators and other Federal agencies to the table to 
streamline regulations. ONCD may consider reviewing the negative 
impacts associated with existing cross-sector Federal reporting 
requirements, including the national security concerns associated with 
the public disclosure of incidents required by the SEC.
    Question 8. What are the challenges to harmonization and 
reciprocity in the energy sector?
    Answer. For years, EEI members have worked with Federal, State, and 
local governments to protect and defend the electric grid from cyber-
related disruptions. Through various cyber initiatives, information-
sharing activities, and exercises, EEI members have strengthened their 
resilience to cyber attacks because they understand that a reliable and 
secure supply of electricity is necessary to power the U.S. economy and 
safeguard this country's national security.
    The energy sector has been subject to NERC's Reliability Standards 
(including its Critical Infrastructure Protection (CIP) Standards), as 
approved and enforced by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission 
(FERC), for years. One of the greatest challenges to harmonization is 
that any new proposed cybersecurity and voluntary standards must be 
developed in harmony with these existing standards to ensure as little 
conflict as possible. To avoid confusion and challenges during a 
cybersecurity incident, EEI members believe it would be valuable to 
designate one Government agency that would be responsible for 
coordinating with other agencies. In addition, it is important to 
remember that electric companies exist in diverse, ever-changing 
operating environments and therefore need to have the ability to tailor 
each of their individual preparation, response, and recovery activities 
accordingly.
    Questions From Chairman Andrew R. Garbarino for Heather Hogsett
    Question 1. How does your sector view the role of regulation? What 
is the importance of regulation for your industry?
    Answer. Financial institutions are subject to complex and 
multifaceted regulatory requirements from the Office of the Comptroller 
of the Currency (OCC), the Federal Reserve Board (FRB), the Federal 
Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC), the Consumer Financial Protection 
Bureau (CFPB), the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), and the 
Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC), among others at the State 
and international levels. Included in the regulatory regime is rigorous 
supervision and examinations from the prudential banking regulators--
the OCC, FRB, and FDIC. Supervision by the banking agencies seeks to 
ensure that financial institutions operate in a safe and sound manner. 
During these reviews, on-site examiners evaluate compliance with 
statutory requirements and whether firms implement appropriate controls 
in areas such as information security, third-party risk management, 
operational resilience, capital and liquidity management, and 
appropriate board oversight.
    The financial sector has been highly regulated for many years and 
firms have established governance and compliance teams to engage with 
regulators. In a number of areas, cybersecurity included, there is 
significant overlap between agencies that diverts attention of critical 
staff toward compliance. A reassessment of this approach is warranted 
to ensure the overall regulatory regime appropriately balances 
compliance demands with security realities. For instance, examiners 
should focus on enhancing security outcomes rather than requiring 
extensive documentation of processes and procedures.
    Question 2. How can the Trump administration ensure it incorporates 
industry feedback as it seeks to streamline the cyber reporting regime?
    Answer. The best way to incorporate industry feedback and 
streamline cyber reporting is to have an active and iterative dialog 
with critical infrastructure sectors. This is particularly true for 
CIRCIA, where close collaboration with industry is necessary not only 
to inform the final rule and achieve the balanced reporting structure 
contemplated by the underlying statute, but also to monitor 
implementation and determine if adjustments are necessary.
    The Trump administration could also leverage the authorities 
outlined in Executive Order 142151 \1\ to limit the ability of 
independent agencies to promulgate duplicative rules. This could help 
prevent unhelpful regulatory requirements--like the SEC's cyber 
incident disclosure rule--that directly conflicts with the intent 
behind CIRCIA and arms cyber criminals with information they can 
leverage to inflict further harm on victim companies.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Executive Order No. 14,215, Ensuring Accountability for All 
Agencies, 90 Fed. Reg. 10447 (Feb. 24, 2025).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Question 3. According to CISA, the total estimated cost of 
completing incident reports from 2024 to 2033 is approximately $79.1 
million--just short of $8 million per year. Please explain whether you 
agree with CISA's estimate.
    Answer. In its proposed rule, CISA calculated that $79.1 million 
figure by estimating that cyber incident and ransom payment reports 
would take 3 hours to complete respectively, joint cyber incident and 
ransom payment reports would take 4.25 hours, and supplemental reports 
would take 7.5 hours.\2\ CISA then assumed a weighted average 
compensation rate of $86.29 for the staff compiling the reports.\3\
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    \2\ Cyber Incident Reporting for Critical Infrastructure Act 
(CIRCIA) Reporting Requirements, 89 Fed. Reg. 23644, 23745 (Apr. 4, 
2024).
    \3\ Id.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Because CIRCIA has not yet gone into effect, it is difficult to say 
with certainty whether CISA's estimate is accurate. Nevertheless, 1 
financial institution noted it takes them an average of 20.5 hours to 
complete reporting requirements associated with the European Union's 
Digital Operational Resilience Act. Moreover, another firm noted that 
the average compensation rate for personnel responsible for completing 
reports was $100--up from $75 several years ago. Both data points 
indicate that CISA likely underestimated the time and cost it will take 
firms to complete required reports.
    Question 4. How can Congress support cyber risk management 
regulatory harmonization?
    Answer. The central challenge for most financial institutions is 
the collective impact of overlapping cyber examinations by multiple 
regulators. Compliance obligations associated with exams now consume up 
to 70 percent of cyber teams' time. During exams, which can take weeks, 
firms frequently produce hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of pages of 
documents responding to regulators' requests.
    Congressional action is needed to help ensure new and existing 
cybersecurity requirements support better security and resilience 
outcomes instead of simply adding additional procedural mandates 
unrelated to real risk. To realize this goal, it is imperative that 
regulators enhance their coordination and not duplicate efforts by 
better leveraging each other's documentation, tests, evaluations, and 
findings.
    Leadership from 1 or more White House offices (e.g., Office of the 
National Cyber Director, Office of Management and Budget, etc.) would 
help ensure independent regulatory agencies work together to avoid 
duplication and conflict among their respective requirements. Agencies 
should be required to take into consideration the full scope and impact 
of regulatory requirements that firms adhere to rather than only 
looking at a subset. While each individual regulatory requirement 
(including rules, supervision, examination, and enforcement) may be 
well-intended, the collective impact of multiple requirements can 
interfere with a firm's ability to operate and focus on security 
improvements. Congressional attention and oversight on this vital issue 
can help inform a streamlined approach and hold regulatory agencies 
accountable.
    Question 5. Is there a need to ensure cybersecurity regulations 
impacting 1 sector do not negatively impact other dependent sectors? 
Please explain.
    Answer. Numerous large-scale cyber incidents over the last several 
years demonstrate the interconnected nature of our systems and the need 
for all critical infrastructure sectors to implement appropriate 
security controls. For cyber incident reporting requirements, it is 
particularly important that those obligations be appropriately tailored 
and do not detract from response efforts.
    Without proper streamlining, the purpose behind many reporting 
mandates--to improve information sharing, prevent harm from spreading, 
and help impacted entities resume operations quickly--will be 
undermined as victim companies are consumed by filling out Government 
forms and reducing litigation and compliance risks. This can lead to 
delays and a reticence to share information confidentially and risks 
cascading harm between and across critical infrastructure sectors.
    Question 6. What are the challenges to harmonization and 
reciprocity in the financial sector?
    Answer. Achieving regulatory harmonization and reciprocity in the 
financial sector is challenging due to slight variations in the 
authorities of each banking regulator. Despite those modest 
differences, each agency's cybersecurity requirements generally apply 
to the same activities, policies, and procedures within firms. 
Therefore, it is the cumulative effect of overlapping requirements that 
leads to the unintended consequence of diverting resources away from 
security operations. For example, financial institutions reported that 
roughly 25 percent of regulatory requests during an exam are 
duplicative of those already received from other agencies.
    A more effective approach would be to have banking agencies conduct 
a single coordinated cyber review each year and leverage existing 
documentation to fulfill those obligations rather than creating unique 
work product for each evaluation.
    Question 7. Are financial institutions utilizing artificial 
intelligence and automation to reduce compliance burdens and help their 
security teams focus on incident response and threat mitigation?
    Answer. Financial institutions have used AI tools for threat 
detection and mitigation for more than a decade and continue to expand 
its use to better serve and protect customers and improve internal 
efficiencies. Machine learning models have been used for several years 
to detect fraud in credit and debit card transactions, check 
transactions, digital payments, and account openings. AI-driven network 
security systems are employed to continuously monitor both incoming and 
outgoing network traffic and detect anomalies (such as unusual login 
times, atypical data transfers, or irregular access patterns) that may 
signify a breach attempt. As another example, AI is also used to 
automate responses to spam and phishing attempts, mitigating risks 
before they escalate.
    Firms also use AI to reduce regulatory compliance burdens, freeing 
personnel and resources to better focus on security risks. For example, 
a BPI member bank has used generative AI to complete a preliminary 
review of third-party cybersecurity assurance responses and 
subsequently direct relevant human reviewers to potential gaps in 
response completeness against the bank's requirements.
      Questions From Chairman Andrew R. Garbarino for Robert Mayer
    Question 1. How does your sector view the role of regulation? What 
is the importance of regulation for your industry?
    Answer. USTelecom and its members are steadfast in their commitment 
to cybersecurity. Our members meet--and very often exceed--
cybersecurity requirements as conditions for authorization to provide 
services, receive Government funding, bid on Government contracts, and 
participate in Government programs, as well as to ensure customer trust 
in the competitive global marketplace. USTelecom's Cybersecurity 
Culture Report, focusing on small and medium enterprises, found that 
telecom providers of all sizes, including smaller ones, have a mature 
cybersecurity culture--along with financial services and IT 
respondents--when compared to other critical infrastructure sectors.\1\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Cybersecurity Culture Report: The State of Small and Medium-
Sized Critical Infrastructure Enterprises 4, USTelecom (Feb. 15, 2023), 
https://www.ustelecom.org/research/2023-cybersecurity-culture-report 
(``The IT and Communications (Comms) sectors stood out as having the 
strongest cybersecurity cultures, with the Comms sector scoring most 
consistently high across the 5 dimensions. The IT, Comms, and Financial 
Services sectors were the most likely to perform important 
cybersecurity culture practices including performance appraisals, 
rewards for proactive behavior, training initiatives, and routine 
communications with internal stakeholders.'').
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The majority of cybersecurity regulations applicable to our sector 
generally fall into 1 of 2 principal categories: (1) baseline 
cybersecurity requirements; (2) cyber incident reporting requirements.
    Baseline Cybersecurity Requirements.--Currently, the broadband 
industry contends with cybersecurity baselines across various programs 
and initiatives, including multiple FCC cybersecurity proceedings--such 
as those addressing the Emergency Alert System/Wireless Emergency 
Alerts system, section 214 authorizations, the Uniendo a Puerto Rico 
Fund, the Connect USVI Fund, and the Connect America Fund--as well as 
the Broadband Equity, Access, and Deployment (``BEAD'') Program 
administered by the National Telecommunications and Information 
Administration (``NTIA''), and the Department of Justice (``DOJ'') U.S. 
Bulk Sensitive Data regulation.
    There is a relatively easy way for policy makers to bring 
consistency to these proceedings: by grounding all cybersecurity 
baselines for our sector in the bipartisan requirements adopted by the 
Federal Communications Commission (``FCC'') as conditions for receiving 
5G funding--an approach firmly grounded in the broadly utilized 
National Institute of Standards and Technology (``NIST'') Cybersecurity 
Framework (``CSF'').
    Specifically, we would propose that broadband providers' 
``cybersecurity risk management plans must reflect at least the [NIST 
Framework], or any successor version of the NIST Framework'' and these 
plans ``must reflect established cybersecurity best practices that 
address each of the Core Functions described in the NIST 
Framework''.\2\ These core functions, which were updated in 2024 to 
include governance, would ensure companies are implementing practices 
necessary to Govern, Identify, Protect, Detect, Respond, and Recover.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ Establishing a 5G Fund for Rural America, FCC 24-89, at 122.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Importantly, in the above-mentioned proceeding, the FCC had the 
foresight to avoid picking winners and losers among competing sets of 
best practices, and also avoiding practices that, due to their 
prescriptiveness and inflexibility, would not stand the test of time. 
For example, according to CISA, their Cybersecurity Performance Goals 
(``CPGs'') require revisions on a frequent basis ``with a targeted 
revision cycle of at least every 6 to 12 months''.\3\ A given company's 
practices may need to change even more quickly in response to real-
world developments, with shifts measured in hours and minutes--not 
months. Nobody on the industry or Government side of the public-private 
partnership can predict with certainty today which cybersecurity 
practices will best serve the ecosystem long-term, which is why the 
private sector needs the flexibility to innovate.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ CISA, Cross-Sector Cybersecurity Performance Goals (2023) at 
14, https://www.cisa.gov/sites/default/files/2023-03/
CISA_CPG_REPORT_v1.0.1_FINAL.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Congress should, at a minimum, encourage all current and 
prospective Federal agencies with jurisdiction over the communications 
sector to align with this approach. Moreover, this framework may prove 
adaptable to other sectors as well. Such harmonization would streamline 
compliance efforts, reduce administrative burdens, and allow providers 
to direct resources toward meaningful, risk-based security initiatives 
that genuinely strengthen the Nation's critical communications 
infrastructure.
    Cyber Incident Reporting.--USTelecom's members are or soon will be 
subject to incident reporting rules or requirements promulgated by the 
SEC, FCC, FTC, DOJ (Team Telecom), FAR Council, FISMA, and State 
governments. In addition, our members have voluntary information-
sharing relationships with a broad array of Government agencies, 
including the intelligence community, and of course DHS. Put simply, 
the need for harmonization has never been greater.
    When incident reporting guidelines are harmonized, response efforts 
can be more coordinated and efficient. This streamlining is critical 
during cyber crises, where the speed and accuracy of information 
sharing and response can determine the severity of impact. A unified 
reporting framework enables faster mobilization of resources, clearer 
communication, and more effective incident resolution.
    Harmonized reporting requirements are easier for entities to follow 
and for regulators to enforce. This clarity can lead to higher 
compliance rates, as entities are less likely to be overwhelmed by 
complex and conflicting requirements. In turn, better compliance 
enhances the overall security posture of critical infrastructure 
sectors. Moreover, a unified approach to data collection can improve 
the quality and security of the data submitted. With standardized 
protocols, security measures can be more robustly implemented and 
maintained. This is crucial in a field where data sensitivity and 
integrity are paramount.
    Given the importance of harmonization, our members find it very 
concerning that the harmonization that CISA is trying to accomplish 
will be effectively null because covered entities will still be subject 
to a multitude of conflicting and duplicative reporting requirements 
across Federal agencies. This is due to the rule making not 
sufficiently addressing Congress's directive to solve for this issue. 
If CISA is serious about harmonizing reporting requirements, it must 
work to mitigate this challenge and address it in the rules.
    Question 2. How can the Trump administration ensure it incorporates 
industry feedback as it seeks to streamline the cyber reporting regime?
    Answer. USTelecom, joined by 20 other organizations, previously 
submitted a letter urging the establishment of an ex parte process to 
facilitate further stakeholder engagement and dialog on the 
implementation of CIRCIA. Although this request was declined by prior 
CISA leadership, we remain convinced that such a process is essential 
to correcting course.
    As the implementation deadline nears, we are deeply concerned that 
the rule, as currently proposed, deviates substantially from 
Congressional intent and would, if finalized, do more harm than good to 
our national security. Without immediate action to initiate an ex parte 
process, it may fall to Congress and CISA to consider all available 
remedies--including potential rescission--to ensure the rule aligns 
with the statute and serves the national interest.
    Question 3a. How has the cyber incident reporting process helped or 
hindered your ability to effectively respond to nation-state threats 
such as Volt and Salt Typhoon?
    Answer. The current incident reporting landscape, which lacks 
harmonization across agencies and frameworks, can increase the 
complexity of responding to cyber incidents, including those involving 
nation-state actors.
    Question 3b. What changes, if any, to cyber incident reporting 
would improve your ability to respond to nation-state threats?
    Answer. A single, streamlined point of contact during incidents 
would help reduce operational friction and support more effective 
coordination.
    Question 3c. Can cyber incident reporting serve as a tool for 
understanding cross-sector trends for actors such as Volt and Salt 
Typhoon? If yes, how so?
    Answer. Potentially, yes. Incident reporting, when aggregated and 
appropriately shared, can offer insights into broader threat patterns. 
This kind of visibility may help inform risk management decisions 
across sectors. We appreciate efforts by Government partners to analyze 
and contextualize threat data in support of shared security objectives.
    Question 4. According to CISA, the total estimated cost of 
completing incident reports from 2024 to 2033 is approximately $79.1 
million--just short of $8 million per year. Please explain whether you 
agree with CISA's estimate.
    Answer. While we appreciate CISA's effort to provide a cost 
estimate, we respectfully disagree that the projected figure accurately 
reflects the true burden of compliance under the proposed rule.
    First, the proposed reporting requirements, as currently drafted, 
lack sufficient clarity regarding critical thresholds, definitions, and 
triggering events. Without a more precise understanding of what 
constitutes a ``covered cyber incident'' or the scope of entities 
subject to reporting, it is not possible to develop a reliable estimate 
of reporting frequency or the corresponding financial and 
administrative burden.
    Second, even under conservative assumptions, the volume of reports 
that CISA may receive--particularly during and immediately after high-
impact events--could far exceed what its current infrastructure is 
equipped to manage. This raises substantial concerns about both the 
Government's capacity to process, analyze, and respond to the 
information in a timely manner, and the costs that private entities 
will incur to ensure compliance in the face of ambiguity.
    In short, while the $79.1 million estimate may serve as a starting 
point for discussion, it does not, in our view, reflect the scale, 
complexity, or fluidity of the real-world costs associated with the 
rule as proposed. Any meaningful assessment of compliance burden must 
await further clarity around key definitional elements and 
implementation thresholds.
    Question 5. How can Congress support cyber risk management 
regulatory harmonization?
    Answer. Congress has a critical role in reinforcing agency 
harmonization efforts through strategic oversight and, if necessary, 
legislative support, as well as by tackling the problem of State-level 
fragmentation. We are increasingly concerned about the proliferation of 
inconsistent State-level cyber regulations, which risk fragmenting the 
national cybersecurity landscape. To preserve coherence and legal 
certainty in this domain, Congress should explore policy mechanisms 
such as Federal preemption and safe harbor provisions, thereby ensuring 
that State actions do not undermine the development of a unified and 
effective national cybersecurity framework.
    Question 6. Is there a need to ensure cybersecurity regulations 
impacting 1 sector do not negatively impact other dependent sectors? 
Please explain.
    Answer. Yes, it is important to ensure that cybersecurity 
regulations directed at 1 sector do not create unintended legal or 
operational consequences for other, interdependent sectors. From a 
regulatory design perspective, clarity and precision are essential. 
Cross-sector dependencies are complex, and imposing obligations on 1 
industry without a clear understanding of how those rules interact with 
adjacent systems can lead to conflicting requirements, duplicative 
compliance regimes, and operational inefficiencies. In the case of 
telecommunications, which frequently supports--but does not control--
the systems of other sectors, regulatory spillover can result in 
unnecessary friction without materially advancing cybersecurity 
outcomes.
    Question 7. What are the challenges to harmonization and 
reciprocity in the communications sector?
    Answer. The core obstacle is that regulators act independently, 
with no binding framework or mechanism for alignment. Compounding this 
is a lack of centralized strategic direction--there's no top-down 
leadership driving coherence across jurisdictions. That is why the 
Office of the National Cyber Director (``ONCD'') needs to lead: not 
just as a facilitator, but as the central thought leader ensuring 
national alignment in cyber policy.
    Question 8. Would more voluntary reporting encourage more 
information sharing from regulated entities? Why or why not?
    Answer. More voluntary reporting could encourage increased 
information sharing from regulated entities--but only if there are 
sufficient legal protections in place for the information shared. 
Entities are often reluctant to report cybersecurity incidents or 
vulnerabilities voluntarily due to concerns about legal liability, 
regulatory consequences, or reputational harm. Therefore, the presence 
of robust protections is critical to fostering trust and cooperation.
    This is why it is essential that Congress reauthorize the 
Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act of 2015 (CISA 2015) and also 
consider mechanisms to enhance its protections. CISA 2015 established 
important liability, regulatory, and FOIA protections for entities that 
voluntarily share cyber threat indicators and defensive measures with 
the Federal Government. However, under the current law, these 
protections typically are more difficult to obtain, or are less 
certain, unless information is shared directly with the Department of 
Homeland Security.
    To truly encourage broad and timely information sharing, 
protections should follow the information, not just the pathway. For 
example, entities should receive the same legal safeguards if they 
share cyber threat information with any relevant Federal agency 
involved in cybersecurity, such as the FBI, NSA, or sector-specific 
agencies like the Department of Energy or the FDA. This would reduce 
confusion about the ``correct'' reporting pathway and lower barriers to 
voluntary participation.
    In short, more voluntary reporting can lead to greater information 
sharing--but only if the legal framework makes that sharing safe and 
practical. Strengthening and updating CISA 2015 is a necessary step in 
that direction.
      Questions From Chairman Andrew R. Garbarino for Ari Schwartz
    Question 1. What can the Federal Government do to ensure businesses 
do not need to choose between regulatory compliance and cybersecurity?
    Answer. As this question suggests, too frequently, governments are 
requiring organizations to follow a set of rote and static checkbox 
assessments or audit standards that are often duplicative and not 
dynamic enough to address current and future cyber threats. Several 
approaches that the Federal Government should consider are streamlining 
cybersecurity regulations, facilitating regulatory harmonization and 
reciprocity, pivoting from compliance to risk management, and providing 
clear implementation and compliance guidance and tools.
Regulatory Streamlining
    Regulatory streamlining can be accomplished in 2 ways. First and 
foremost, the Federal Government should strive to ensure that 
cybersecurity regulations only include controls that have demonstrably 
provided resilience for the sector in question. This approach will 
allow entities to focus limited resources on ensuring the timely and 
comprehensive implementation of controls known to improve security and 
resiliency. An excellent example of this approach is the Cyber Risk 
Institute's (``CRI'') development of the financial sector profile \1\ 
for the National Institute of Standards and Technology's (``NIST'') 
Framework for Improving Critical Infrastructure Cybersecurity 
(``CSF'').\2\ Additionally, the Federal Government can achieve a 
measure of regulatory streamlining by ensuring the processes required 
to be compliant with cybersecurity regulations are as clear and simple 
as possible.
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    \1\ Cyber Risk Institute, CRI Profile. https://
cyberriskinstitute.org/the-profile/.
    \2\ NIST, Cybersecurity Framework. https://www.nist.gov/
cyberframework.
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Regulatory Harmonization
    As I detailed in my testimony, cyber incident reporting is an 
excellent example of how similar but disparate requirements across a 
growing number of reporting regimes has become burdensome for 
businesses. ``As more organizations build reporting structures for 
different purposes, duplication, misalignment, fragmentation, and other 
issues start to set in. This includes concerns around the amount and 
types of data fields, differing taxonomies, time frames for reporting, 
and more.''\3\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ Cybersecurity Coalition, Testimony Before the U.S. House of 
Representatives Homeland Security Committee Cybersecurity and 
Infrastructure Protection Subcommittee on ``Regulatory Harm or 
Harmonization? Examining the Opportunity to Improve the Cyber 
Regulatory Regime,'' March 11, 2025. https://homeland.house.gov/wp-
content/uploads/2025/03/2025-03-11-CIP-HRG-Testimony.pdf.
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    While there are understandable motivations for Federal regulators 
of different sectors to approach cybersecurity regulations with a 
nuanced, sector-specific lens, the Federal Government should encourage 
as much regulatory harmonization across regimes as is practicable. As 
the Cybersecurity Coalition has previously stated on this topic, we 
believe that ``building compliance schemes that focus on consistent 
standards, and that enable automation and reuse of compliance artifacts 
would create meaningful efficiencies.''\4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \4\ Cybersecurity Coalition, Response to the Office of the National 
Cyber Director. RE: Request for Information on Cybersecurity Regulatory 
Harmonization https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/
660ec3caef47b817df2800ae/
660ec3caef47b817df28023f_Cybersecurity%20Coalition%20Com- 
ments%20to%20ONCD%20RFI%20on%20Cybersecurity%20Regulatory%20Harmonizatio
n%- 2020231031.pdf.
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    One method that the Cybersecurity Coalition has previously 
advocated for consideration as a means to providing regulatory 
harmonization is a co-regulatory model.\5\ We consider ``coregulatory 
models such as Federal Financial Institutions Examination Council 
(``FFIEC'') to be a potentially effective method to establish uniform 
requirements and oversight across multiple regulatory regimes and 
supervisory agencies.''\6\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ Ibid.
    \6\ Ibid.
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Regulatory Reciprocity
    The Federal Government should also look to support cyber regulatory 
reciprocity. At a high level, cyber regulatory reciprocity would enable 
a business to have their existing certification of compliance with one 
regulation be considered proof of meeting overlapping requirements from 
other regulations.
    The Coalition has previously pointed to the Federal Risk and 
Authorization Management Program (``FedRAMP''), which was established 
to provide a cost-effective, risk-based approach for the adoption and 
use of cloud services by the Federal Government, as a potential 
model.\7\ As the Cybersecurity Coalition has previously noted, 
``FedRAMP's legal and governance structure, as well as FedRAMP's 
principle of `reusability,' are designed to enable compliance with less 
redundancy,'' and that ``elements of the FedRAMP model could be 
leveraged as the basis for coregulatory approaches that encompass a 
broader set of cybersecurity issues.''\8\ While we acknowledge that 
there are well-known challenges and implementation issues facing 
FedRAMP itself, the reciprocity principles at the core of the program 
are sound.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \7\ Ibid.
    \8\ Ibid.
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Pivoting to Risk Management
    As was mentioned at the beginning, many current Federal regulatory 
compliance regimes are static checkbox assessments or audit standards 
that often fail to keep pace with evolutions within the technological 
and threat landscape. Furthermore, this type of compliance regime is 
prone to giving a false sense of security and maturity. This is often a 
result of binary ``yes/no'' questions that fail to adequately 
interrogate cybersecurity complexity and that can often be successfully 
complied with despite failing to actually achieve an intended 
underlying security goal.
    The Federal Government can address these shortcomings and better 
harmonize the cyber regulatory environment by pivoting existing regimes 
toward alignment with a single framework that is centered on cyber risk 
management. Cyber risk management and risk-based approaches enable 
businesses to better understand their security posture, prioritize 
risks based on their unique environment and mission, and ensure their 
security investments are effective.
    The Cybersecurity Coalition urges Congress and the administration 
to embrace a risk management approach. Such a transition would be eased 
by the fact that NIST has been a global leader in cyber risk management 
for years. The constellation of frameworks they have developed in 
conjunction with industry includes the aforementioned CSF, the Privacy 
Framework,\9\ the Risk Management Framework,\10\ the Cybersecurity 
Supply Chain Risk Management,\11\ and, most recently, the Artificial 
Intelligence Risk Management Framework.\12\
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    \9\ NIST, Privacy Framework. https://www.nist.gov/privacy-
framework.
    \10\ NIST, Risk Management Framework. https://csrc.nist.gov/
projects/risk-management/about-rmf.
    \11\ NIST, Cybersecurity Supply Chain Risk Management (C-SCRM). 
https://csrc.nist.gov/projects/cyber-supply-chain-risk-management.
    \12\ NIST, AI Risk Management Framework. https://www.nist.gov/itl/
ai-risk-management-framework.
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    In particular, we would urge the Federal Government to ensure that 
regulatory regimes are aligned with the NIST CSF. The CSF is 
particularly well-regarded, is applicable across sectors, agnostic to 
size and structure, and is already widely adopted. The CSF is also seen 
as a model for partner nations, which is helpful for U.S. companies 
conducting business in other regions. Regulatory alignment with the CSF 
would minimize regulatory duplication and fragmentation through an 
existing industry-approved framework.
Tools and Guidance
    Streamlining, harmonization, and reciprocity would be the most 
impactful approaches to ensuring that businesses do not have to choose 
between regulatory compliance and cybersecurity. However, additional 
efficiency can be found by ensuring that regulatory requirements and 
processes are accompanied by clear implementation and compliance 
guidance and tools. Less time spent on understanding what is being 
asked of businesses and more tools being available to simplify and ease 
compliance means more time and resources actually being dedicated to 
cybersecurity.
    Question 2. How would you evaluate interagency cooperation in 
regard to cyber incident reporting? Do Federal agencies adequately 
collaborate and share information? Please explain.
    Answer. Currently, there is a patchwork of voluntary and required 
cyber incident reporting from private-sector entities to Federal 
departments and agencies. For example, the Transportation Security 
Administration's Security Directives for surface transportation, rail, 
and pipelines require covered entities to report to CISA Central within 
24 hours. Within the financial sector, covered entities are required to 
directly notify their regulators--the Office of the Comptroller of the 
Currency, the Federal Reserve System, and Federal Deposit Insurance 
Corporation--of a computer-security incident within 36 hours. 
Contractors within the Defense Industrial Base report to the Department 
of Defense's Cyber Crime Center using an on-line portal. This is all on 
top of the Federal Government's push for voluntary cyber incident 
reporting to either CISA Central or to a local FBI Field Office. Once 
received by the Government agencies through these various means, there 
is not a routinized method or process for sharing cyber incident 
reports among the relevant agencies. Rather, the experience of 
Coalition members is that information is shared ad-hoc or specific to a 
single incident. Furthermore, there is little bi-directional 
information sharing. Coalition members often don't know what happens 
with the information they provide to the Government--with whom it was 
shared or what was even done with the information. To the greatest 
extent possible, Federal entities receiving cyber incident information 
should collect, analyze, contextualize, and enrich that data; and then 
share it back into the larger community along with any mitigation 
techniques and strategies in order to prevent additional, similar 
incidents.
    This perspective appears to be supported by Government reports. The 
Cybersecurity Coalition's previous comments to the Office of the 
National Cyber Director (``ONCD'') on this issue cited ``a 2020 
Government Accountability Office report reviewed the assessment 
processes employed by several large Federal agencies for security of 
data provided to States.''\13\ The report found that none of the 
agencies had policies for coordinating assessments with each other 
despite OMB requirements under Circular A-130 requiring agencies to 
coordinate.\14\ While this report was ``focused on State assessments, 
it demonstrates coordination challenges among Federal agencies and 
highlights the potential value in streamlined regulatory models that 
incorporate multiple levels of agency communication.''\15\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \13\ GAO, Selected Federal Agencies Need to Coordinate on 
Requirements and Assessments of States, May 2020, https://www.gao.gov/
assets/gao-20-123.pdf.
    \14\ OMB Circular A-130, Managing Information as a Strategic 
Resource, Jul. 28, 2016, https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/
2016/07/28/2016-17872/revision-of-omb-circular-no-a-130-managing-
information-as-a-strategic-resource.
    \15\ Cybersecurity Coalition, Response to the Office of the 
National Cyber Director. RE: Request for Information on Cybersecurity 
Regulatory Harmonization https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/
660ec3caef47b817df2800ae/
660ec3caef47b817df28023f_Cybersecurity%20Coalition%20- 
Comments%20to%20ONCD%20RFI%20on%20Cybersecurity%20Regulatory%20Harmoniza
tion%- 2020231031.pdf.
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    Without established processes that can be tracked against security 
outcomes, it is difficult, if not impossible, to evaluate the 
effectiveness of interagency sharing of cyber incident reports.
    Question 13. According to CISA, the total estimated cost of 
completing incident reports from 2024 to 2033 is approximately $79.1 
million--just short of $80 million per year. Please explain whether you 
agree with CISA's estimate.
    Answer. The Cybersecurity Coalition has not thoroughly evaluated 
CISA's estimate and is not in a position to comment on the potential 
cost of completing cyber incident reporting. It is difficult to assess 
how the constantly-changing legal and regulatory environment, threat 
environment, and the industry's growing cybersecurity maturity and 
resiliency all contribute to incident reporting costs over an extended 
period. Additionally, it is not clear if this estimate represents the 
cost for victims to report incidents, and/or the cost for CISA to 
ingest and take action on incident reports. There are associated costs 
on both ends of cyber incident reporting.
    Question 4. How can Congress ensure CISA has the tools it needs to 
manage the information received from CIRCIA requirements if/when the 
rule goes into effect?
    Answer. CISA's ability to manage the information received from 
CIRCIA's requirements once it goes into effect will be largely 
dependent on the volume of reporting that they must contend with. As I 
noted in my testimony, the Cybersecurity Coalition feels that CISA's 
scope in the breadth of covered entities and covered incidents is too 
broad.
    CISA would be in a far better position to manage the information 
they receive through CIRCIA if they narrow the scope of entities. The 
Cybersecurity Coalition advocates for abandoning the approach of 
applying reporting requirements to all entities within critical 
infrastructure sectors and instead have them ``focus on Systemically 
Important Entities (SIEs) that own or operate critical infrastructure 
systems and assets whose disruption would have a debilitating, 
systemic, or cascading impact on national security, the economy, public 
health, or public safety.''\16\ Additionally, we would advocate for a 
more modest definition of types of reports requested.
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    \16\ Cybersecurity Coalition, Comments to CISA: Re: Request for 
Information on the Cyber Incident Reporting for Critical Infrastructure 
Act of 2022. https://www.cybersecuritycoalition.org/filings/comments-
to-cisa-circia-rfi-docket-number-2022-19551-cisa-2022-0110.
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    Question 5. How can Congress support cyber risk management 
regulatory harmonization?
    Answer. Congress can support cyber risk management regulatory 
harmonization by bolstering on-going Governmental efforts. In 
particular, the Cybersecurity Coalition would again highlight NIST's 
work in this field.
    Among their many important cybersecurity contributions, the NIST 
CSF is likely the most domestically and internationally successful. For 
over a decade, the NIST CSF has showcased American leadership in cyber 
risk management by providing a framework to help organizations 
identify, manage, and reduce cyber risk. Wide-spread adoption of the 
NIST CSF has helped create a common perspective and language through 
which organizations can understand this issue. The proven track record 
and wide-spread adoption of the CSF makes it an ideal candidate as the 
basis for the Federal Government to align existing and future cyber 
regulatory regimes. The Cybersecurity Coalition would encourage the 
Federal Government to continue to support the development and 
maintenance of the CSF alongside such alignment as a way to improve 
cyber risk management harmonization while generally improving the U.S. 
cybersecurity ecosystem.
    Question 6. How is the private sector using AI-enabled and 
automation software to improve their cyber defense posture and make 
compliance easier and more effective?
    Answer. The private sector has long used AI-enabled and automation 
technologies to strengthen cybersecurity and streamline compliance 
processes, and new advancements in AI have quickly become part of 
industry's toolkit. These tools are enhancing existing capabilities for 
threat detection, response, and vulnerability management, but also have 
the potential to change how organizations approach risk management and 
compliance.
    Artificial intelligence has long been used to detect threats with 
more precision and speed than traditional tools or human analysts can 
do alone. By analyzing vast amounts of data--network traffic, user 
behavior, system logs--AI systems can identify anomalies and potential 
threats that might otherwise go unnoticed. Behavioral analytics, in 
particular, allow organizations to detect insider threats and subtle 
indicators of compromise, such as lateral movement or privilege 
escalation, with a level of context-aware insight that manual methods 
cannot achieve.
    Once certain kinds of threats are detected, automation can be used 
to isolate endpoints, disable accounts, or block malicious IP addresses 
within seconds. These security orchestration platforms can integrate 
with other parts of the IT stack to ensure a coordinated, organization-
wide response that dramatically reduces the time it takes to contain 
incidents.
    In parallel, AI is playing a growing role in vulnerability 
management. Rather than relying solely on scheduled scans and manual 
prioritization, modern systems use machine learning to continuously 
monitor codebases, applications, and infrastructure for 
vulnerabilities. They assess each issue in terms of exploitability and 
business impact, allowing organizations to prioritize patching efforts 
in a more strategic way. This integration of AI into operations 
(devops) practices also enables real-time code scanning during 
development, reducing the risk of deploying insecure software.
    Compliance--once viewed as a burdensome and reactive function--is 
also being reshaped by AI. Natural language processing tools can now 
analyze regulatory texts and map them to internal controls, 
highlighting gaps and inconsistencies automatically. Instead of 
assembling audit evidence manually, compliance platforms that are 
powered by automation can collect logs, access records, and other 
necessary documentation in real time. This not only reduces labor, but 
also improves the accuracy and timeliness of reporting.
    Identity and access management has similarly benefited from AI 
integration. Traditional access control models are being replaced or 
supplemented by dynamic, risk-based systems that adapt to contextual 
factors such as location, device health, and user behavior. These 
systems can detect and respond to anomalies that suggest compromised 
credentials or unauthorized activity, strengthening defenses without 
impeding legitimate workflows.
    Data protection and privacy compliance--particularly important 
under regulations like GDPR and CCPA--have also become more manageable 
through AI. Automated data discovery and classification tools can 
identify sensitive information across disparate systems, even in 
environments with limited visibility or extensive use of shadow IT. 
Combined with AI-enhanced data loss prevention tools, organizations are 
better equipped to enforce policies around data handling and respond 
quickly to potential breaches.
    The cumulative effect of these technologies is a more proactive, 
scalable, and resilient security and compliance posture. Organizations 
are no longer solely reacting to threats and regulations--they are 
leveraging automation to anticipate risks, enforce policies 
consistently, and maintain continuous audit readiness. While no 
technology eliminates the need for skilled human oversight, AI and 
automation are significantly enhancing the capabilities of security and 
compliance teams and enabling them to operate at a strategic level.
    Question 7. How can the Trump administration ensure it incorporates 
industry feedback as it seeks to streamline the cyber reporting regime?
    Answer. Providing ample opportunity for industry feedback and then 
adequately incorporating that feedback is critical to ensuring cyber 
incident reporting streamlining and harmonization efforts are as 
successful as possible. The insight gained through feedback from 
businesses that are required to implement and comply with these various 
reporting regimes is valuable and often nuanced.
    Despite this, and as I testified, there was a distinct lack of 
industry engagement by CISA under the previous administration when 
contemplating this aspect of CIRCIA. This was a mistake that the Trump 
administration should rectify. We would encourage the Trump 
administration to work both inside and outside the existing regulatory 
structures to achieve this.
    From inside the existing regulatory structures, this feedback can 
be ensured through a process that places emphasis on broad engagement. 
This may include holding appropriately numerous and lengthy Request for 
Information (``RFI'') or Request for Comment (``RFC'') periods and 
listening sessions. In addition, we would encourage the Trump 
administration to ensure there are appropriately lengthy opportunities 
for industry to review and submit comments on public drafts of proposed 
cyber incident reporting regimes. Additionally, the Cybersecurity 
Coalition advocates for the use of ex-parte processes, where necessary, 
to fill in areas that are necessary but weren't addressed in the 
regular APA rule-making process.
    While this can be achieved within existing regulatory structures, 
it is easier to do so from the outside. The Cybersecurity Coalition has 
generally supported the ONCD as taking the lead on regulatory 
harmonization efforts up to this point. The Cybersecurity Coalition 
recommends that the committee review comments that were submitted to 
ONCD on this issue in 2023 that remain relevant today.\17\
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    \17\ Cybersecurity Coalition, Response to the Office of the 
National Cyber Director. RE: Request for Information on Cybersecurity 
Regulatory Harmonization https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/
660ec3caef47b817df2800ae/
660ec3caef47b817df28023f_Cybersecurity%20Coalition%20- 
Comments%20to%20ONCD%20RFI%20on%20Cybersecurity%20Regulatory%20Harmoniza
tion%- 2020231031.pdf.
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