[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                    CLEANING UP THE PAST, BUILDING THE FUTURE: 
                            THE BROWNFIELDS PROGRAM

=======================================================================

                                (119-19)

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                            SUBCOMMITTEE ON
                    WATER RESOURCES AND ENVIRONMENT

                                 OF THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                   TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                              MAY 7, 2025

                               __________

                       Printed for the use of the
             Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure
             
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     Available online at: https://www.govinfo.gov/committee/house-
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                             transportation
                             

                                __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
60-917 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------                                 

            COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE

  		Sam Graves, Missouri, Chairman
 	       Rick Larsen, Washington, Ranking Member
 		
Eleanor Holmes Norton,               Eric A. ``Rick'' Crawford, 
  District of Columbia               Arkansas,
Jerrold Nadler, New York               Vice Chairman
Steve Cohen, Tennessee               Daniel Webster, Florida
John Garamendi, California           Thomas Massie, Kentucky
Henry C. ``Hank'' Johnson, Jr., Georgiaott Perry, Pennsylvania
Andre Carson, Indiana                Brian Babin, Texas
Dina Titus, Nevada                   David Rouzer, North Carolina
Jared Huffman, California            Mike Bost, Illinois
Julia Brownley, California           Doug LaMalfa, California
Frederica S. Wilson, Florida         Bruce Westerman, Arkansas
Mark DeSaulnier, California          Brian J. Mast, Florida
Salud O. Carbajal, California        Pete Stauber, Minnesota
Greg Stanton, Arizona                Tim Burchett, Tennessee
Sharice Davids, Kansas               Dusty Johnson, South Dakota
Jesus G. ``Chuy'' Garcia, Illinois   Jefferson Van Drew, New Jersey
Chris Pappas, New Hampshire          Troy E. Nehls, Texas
Seth Moulton, Massachusetts          Tracey Mann, Kansas
Marilyn Strickland, Washington       Burgess Owens, Utah
Patrick Ryan, New York               Eric Burlison, Missouri
Val T. Hoyle, Oregon                 Mike Collins, Georgia
Emilia Strong Sykes, Ohio,           Mike Ezell, Mississippi
  Vice Ranking Member                Kevin Kiley, California
Hillary J. Scholten, Michigan        Vince Fong, California
Valerie P. Foushee, North Carolina   Tony Wied, Wisconsin
Christopher R. Deluzio, Pennsylvania Tom Barrett, Michigan
Robert Garcia, California            Nicholas J. Begich III, Alaska
Nellie Pou, New Jersey               Robert P. Bresnahan, Jr., 
Kristen McDonald Rivet, Michigan     Pennsylvania
Laura Friedman, California           Jeff Hurd, Colorado
Laura Gillen, New York               Jefferson Shreve, Indiana
Shomari Figures, Alabama             Addison P. McDowell, North 
                                     Carolina
                                     David J. Taylor, Ohio
                                     Brad Knott, North Carolina
                                     Kimberlyn King-Hinds,
                                       Northern Mariana Islands
                                     Mike Kennedy, Utah
                                     Robert F. Onder, Jr., Missouri
                                     Jimmy Patronis, Florida

            Subcommittee on Water Resources and Environment

  Mike Collins, Georgia, Chairman
  Frederica S. Wilson, Florida, 
          Ranking Member
John Garamendi, California           Eric A. ``Rick'' Crawford, 
Jared Huffman, California            Arkansas
Patrick Ryan, New York               Thomas Massie, Kentucky
Val T. Hoyle, Oregon                 Brian Babin, Texas
Emilia Strong Sykes, Ohio            Mike Bost, Illinois
Laura Friedman, California           Doug LaMalfa, California
Shomari Figures, Alabama             Bruce Westerman, Arkansas
Julia Brownley, California           Brian J. Mast, Florida
Mark DeSaulnier, California          Tracey Mann, Kansas
Chris Pappas, New Hampshire          Eric Burlison, Missouri
Hillary J. Scholten, Michigan,       Kevin Kiley, California
  Vice Ranking Member                Vince Fong, California
Nellie Pou, New Jersey               Tony Wied, Wisconsin
Laura Gillen, New York               Jeff Hurd, Colorado
Eleanor Holmes Norton,               David J. Taylor, Ohio, Vice 
  District of Columbia               Chairman
Rick Larsen, Washington (Ex Officio) Brad Knott, North Carolina
                                     Robert F. Onder, Jr., Missouri
                                     Jimmy Patronis, Florida
                                     Sam Graves, Missouri (Ex Officio)

                                CONTENTS

                                                                   Page

Summary of Subject Matter........................................   vii

                 STATEMENTS OF MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE

Hon. Mike Collins, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Georgia, and Chairman, Subcommittee on Water Resources and 
  Environment, opening statement.................................     1
    Prepared statement...........................................     2
Hon. Frederica S. Wilson, a Representative in Congress from the 
  State of Florida, and Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Water 
  Resources and Environment, opening statement...................     3
    Prepared statement...........................................     4
Hon. Rick Larsen, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Washington, and Ranking Member, Committee on Transportation and 
  Infrastructure, prepared statement.............................    53

                               WITNESSES

Hon. Terry M. Wilbur, Clerk, Oswego County, New York, on behalf 
  of the National Association of Counties, oral statement........     6
    Prepared statement...........................................     8
Lisa Shook, Assistant Chief, Division of Environmental Response 
  and Remediation, Ohio Environmental Protection Agency, oral 
  statement......................................................    11
    Prepared statement...........................................    13
Lance N. Larson, Analyst in Environmental Policy, Congressional 
  Research Service, oral statement...............................    14
    Prepared statement...........................................    16
Michael R. Goldstein, Esq., Managing Partner, The Goldstein 
  Environmental Law Firm, P.A., oral statement...................    18
    Prepared statement...........................................    20

                       SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD

Letter of May 3, 2025, from the Environmental Council of the 
  States to Hon. Lee Zeldin, Administrator, U.S. Environmental 
  Protection Agency, Submitted for the Record by Hon. Frederica 
  S. Wilson......................................................    25

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


                              May 2, 2025

    SUMMARY OF SUBJECT MATTER

    TO:      LMembers, Subcommittee on Water Resources and 
Environment
    FROM:  LStaff, Subcommittee on Water Resources and 
Environment
    RE:      LSubcommittee Hearing on ``Cleaning Up the Past, 
Building the Future: The Brownfields Program''
_______________________________________________________________________


                               I. PURPOSE

    The Subcommittee on Water Resources and Environment of the 
Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure will meet on 
Wednesday, May 7, 2025, at 10:00 a.m. ET in 2167 Rayburn House 
Office Building to receive testimony at a hearing entitled, 
``Cleaning Up the Past, Building the Future: The Brownfields 
Program.'' The hearing will provide Members with an opportunity 
to hear local and National perspectives on the Environmental 
Protection Agency (EPA) Brownfields program.
    At the hearing, Members will receive testimony from 
witnesses representing the National Association of Counties, 
the Ohio Environmental Protection Agency, the Congressional 
Research Service, and the Goldstein Environmental Law Firm.

II. COMPRHENSIVE ENVIRONMENTAL RESPONSE, COMPENSATION, AND LIABIITY ACT 
                                (CERCLA)

    CERCLA, administered by the Environmental Protection Agency 
(EPA), is the Federal Government's principal law for addressing 
the cleanup of sites contaminated with hazardous substances, 
pollutants, or contaminants, through immediate removal or long-
term remedial actions.\1\ CERCLA establishes a framework for 
the EPA to seek out and compel potentially responsible parties 
(PRPs) to clean up contaminated sites or recover cleanup costs 
from PRPs.\2\
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    \1\ David M. Bearden, Cong. Rsch Serv. (R41039), Comprehensive 
Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act: A Summary of 
Superfund Cleanup Authorities and Related Provisions of the Act, (June 
14, 2012), available at https://www.crs.gov/reports/pdf/R41039/
R41039.pdf [hereinafter CRS Report R41039].
    \2\ Id.
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    Liability for PRPs under CERCLA is triggered if there has 
been an actual or threatened release of a hazardous substance 
that causes the incurrence of response costs.\3\ Section 107 of 
CERCLA identifies four categories of PRPs: (1) any current 
owner or operator of a contaminated facility; (2) any past 
owner or operator of a contaminated facility; (3) any person 
who arranged for the disposal or treatment of a hazardous 
substance, and; (4) any person who transported hazardous 
substances for disposal or treatment.\4\ There are liability 
protections provided under the statute for individuals in 
certain circumstances, such as innocent landowners,\5\ 
contiguous property owners,\6\ persons who contributed only 
very small qualities of waste to a site,\7\ or bona fide 
prospective purchasers, which are individuals who knowingly 
acquire contaminated property and adhere to certain statutory 
criteria.\8\
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    \3\ 40 C.F.R. Sec.  302.4 (2025).
    \4\ 42 U.S.C. Sec.  9607.
    \5\ 42 U.S.C. Sec.  9607(b)(3).
    \6\ 42 U.S.C. Sec.  9607(q).
    \7\ 42 U.S.C. Sec.  9607(o).
    \8\ 42 U.S.C. Sec.  9601(40).
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    Courts have consistently interpreted liability under CERCLA 
to be retroactive, strict, and joint and several in nature.\9\ 
Specifically:
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    \9\ See, e.g., CRS Report R41039, supra note 1.

     LRetroactive Liability: Courts have held that 
CERCLA liability applies to the release or disposal of 
hazardous substances occurring prior to the statute's enactment 
on December 11, 1980.\10\
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    \10\ See United States v. Northeastern Pharmaceutical & Chemical 
Co. (NEPACCO), 810 F.2d 726 (8th Cir. 1986).
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     LStrict Liability: Courts have attached strict 
liability regardless of fault; a party may be liable under 
CERCLA even if it exercised due care and did not act 
negligently.\11\
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    \11\ See United States v. Bestfoods, 524 U.S. 51 (1998) (CERCLA 
imposes strict liability on ``covered persons'' without a requirement 
to prove negligence or intent).
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     LJoint and Several Liability: Courts have imposed 
joint and several liability where the harm caused by hazardous 
substances cannot be reasonably divided among multiple 
parties.\12\
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    \12\ United States v. Chem-Dyne Corp., 572 F. Supp. 802 (S.D. Ohio 
1983).

    If PRPs can be identified and are able to finance a 
cleanup, the Federal Government can enforce liability through 
CERCLA in several ways, by: (1) a judicial or administrative 
order; (2) cost-recovery actions through administrative or 
judicial proceedings; or (3) voluntary settlement 
agreements.\13\ Alternatively, EPA may clean up ``orphan 
sites'' when PRPs are not identified, or when they fail to 
act.\14\ These Federal response actions are generally funded by 
the Hazardous Substance Superfund Trust Fund.\15\
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    \13\ EPA, Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and 
Liability Act (CERCLA) and Federal Facilities, available at https://
www.epa.gov/enforcement/comprehensive-environmental-response-
compensation-and-liability-act-cercla-and-federal.
    \14\ E.g., CRS Report R41039, supra note 1.
    \15\ Id.
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                      III. EPA BROWNFIELDS PROGRAM

BACKGROUND

    A brownfield site is defined as ``real property, the 
expansion, redevelopment, or reuse of which may be complicated 
by the presence or potential presence of a hazardous substance, 
pollutant, or contaminant.'' \16\ Brownfields are properties 
that are typically abandoned, underutilized, or idle with 
either known or suspected contamination. The possibility of 
contamination is often a deterrent for many prospective 
investors and developers because of potential CERCLA 
liability.\17\
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    \16\ 42 U.S.C. Sec.  9601(39).
    \17\ CRS Report R41039, supra note 1.
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    Types of brownfields can include inactive factories, gas 
stations, salvage or scrap yards, or abandoned warehouses.\18\ 
However, many other commercial, industrial, and agricultural, 
and even some residential areas may be contaminated due to 
current or past uses at the site.\19\ Brownfield sites are 
generally less contaminated than those listed on the National 
Priorities List,\20\ but still may require remediation work to 
make them suitable for reuse and redevelopment.\21\ For 
example, according to EPA, lead, asbestos, volatile organic 
compounds, petroleum, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, 
arsenic, and other heavy metals are the most reported 
contaminants found at brownfield sites.\22\
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    \18\ EPA, What is a Brownfield?, available at bf-101.1-with-
voiceover-what-are-brownfields.pptx.
    \19\ EPA, Environmental Contamination at Brownfield Sites, 
available at https://www.epa.gov/brownfields/environmental-
contamination-brownfield-sites. [hereinafter Environmental 
Contamination].
    \20\ 42 U.S.C. Sec.  9605 (requires the EPA to list National 
priorities for Superfund sites based on the Hazard Ranking System 
(HRS). This list, known as the National Priorities List (NPL), 
identifies sites that warrant further investigation and potential 
remediation under CERCLA).
    \21\ CRS Report R41039, supra note 1.
    \22\ Environmental Contamination, supra note 15.
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    Brownfield sites drive down property values, provide little 
or no tax revenue to the local area, and contribute to 
community blight.\23\ EPA reports that an estimated 450,000 to 
one million brownfields sites exist within the United 
States.\24\ The EPA Brownfields Program aims to support states, 
Tribal Nations, local communities, and other stakeholders in 
their efforts to prevent, assess, remediate, and reuse 
brownfield sites.\25\ The cleanup and redevelopment of these 
abandoned sites and blighted properties can increase local tax 
bases, promote economic development, revitalize neighborhoods, 
facilitate job growth, enable the creation of public parks and 
open space, or preserve existing properties.\26\
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    \23\ Id.
    \24\ See, EPA, Brownfields--About, available at https://
www.epa.gov/brownfields/about.
    \25\ Id.
    \26\ Id.
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    EPA's Brownfields program supports land revitalization by 
providing grants and technical assistance to help communities 
identify, clean up, and develop brownfield sites. The program 
distributes funds that are appropriated annually by Congress 
through technical assistance, competitive grants, and non-
competitive funding.\27\ Specifically, the program offers the 
following types of funding assistance:
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    \27\ EPA, Brownfields Program Grants, available at https://
www.epa.gov/resilient-investments/brownfields-program-grants. 
[hereinafter Brownfields Program Grants].

     LBrownfields Assessment Grants: which provide 
funding for brownfield inventories, planning, environmental 
assessments, and community outreach. There are several 
different types of assessment grants available.\28\
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    \28\ EPA, Brownfields Assessment Grants, available at https://
www.epa.gov/brownfields/brownfields-assessment-grants.

     LBrownfields Cleanup Grants: which provide funding 
to carry out cleanup activities at brownfields sites owned by 
the applicant. An applicant may request funding to address 
either a single brownfield site or multiple sites within the 
same application.\29\
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    \29\ EPA, EPA Brownfields Cleanup Grants: Interested in Applying 
for Funding?, available at https://www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/
2022-08/Program%20Overview_Cleanup.pdf.

     LBrownfields Multipurpose Grants: which allow 
communities that have identified a geographic area with one or 
more brownfield sites to carry out a variety of eligible 
assessment and cleanup activities in the area, such as 
inventorying brownfields sites, conducting environmental 
assessments, and developing an overall plan for 
revitalization.\30\
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    \30\ EPA, EPA Brownfields Multipurpose Grants: Interested in 
Applying for Funding?, available at https://www.epa.gov/system/files/
documents/2022-08/Program%20Overview_Cleanup.pdf.

     LBrownfields Revolving Loan Fund (RLF) Grants: 
which allow eligible entities (as defined in section 104(k)(1) 
of CERCLA) to capitalize revolving funds for the remediation of 
brownfields, subject to the same funding limitations as direct 
grants.\31\
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    \31\ EPA, Brownfields Revolving Loan Fund RLF Grants, available at 
https://www.epa.gov/brownfields/brownfields-revolving-loan-fund-rlf-
grants.

     LBrownfields Job Training Grants: which provide 
funding to nonprofits, local governments, and other eligible 
organizations to provide training for residents impacted by 
brownfield sites in their communities. Students develop skills 
needed to secure employment in the hazardous and solid waste 
management field.\32\
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    \32\ EPA, EPA Brownfields Job Training Grants: Interested in 
Applying for Funding?, available at https://www.epa.gov/system/files/
documents/2024-01/bfjt-program-overview.pdf.

     LState and Tribal Response Program: which provides 
non-competitive funding through cooperative agreements to 
states and Tribes to establish or enhance their non-Federal 
environmental response programs.\33\ States, Territories, and 
Tribes are responsible for developing brownfields cleanup 
standards and policy and conducting or overseeing the 
assessment, cleanup, and reuse of brownfield sites within their 
jurisdictions.\34\ EPA supports these state and Tribal programs 
through this funding.
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    \33\ 42 U.S.C. Sec.  9628.
    \34\ EPA, EPA Brownfields and Land Revitalization CERCLA Section 
128(a) State and Tribal Response Program Funding, available at https://
www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/2023-09/
updated_128a_fact_sheet_final_080422.pdf

    A wide range of eligible entities can apply for the 
competitive grants, including local government, quasi-
governmental entities, redevelopment agencies, states, 
Federally recognized Tribes, Alaska Native Regional 
Corporations, nonprofit organizations and certain limited 
liability corporations and partnerships with nonprofit 
affiliations.\35\ For-profit organizations, individual entities 
and nonprofit organizations exempt from taxation under section 
501(c)(4) of the Internal Revenue Code that lobby are not 
eligible to receive grants through the Brownfields program.\36\
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    \35\ Brownfields Program Grants, supra note 23.
    \36\ Id.
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LEGISLATIVE AND FUNDING HISTORY

    Using existing CERCLA authorities, EPA originally 
established a program in 1993 to provide federal assistance to 
support the cleanup of brownfields properties.\37\ In 2002, the 
Small Business Liability Relief and Brownfields Revitalization 
Act (P.L. 107-118) amended CERCLA to provide explicit statutory 
authority for the EPA to provide Federal grants to assist in 
the cleanup of brownfields properties. It also established 
new--and clarified existing--targeted CERCLA liability 
protections. Because CERCLA has far-reaching liability 
implications, these protections play an important role in 
facilitating the redevelopment of brownfields by clarifying and 
reducing potential liabilities for property owners and 
developers.
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    \37\ CRS Report R41039, supra note 1.
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    In 2018, Congress further amended the program through the 
Brownfields Utilization, Investment, and Local Development 
(BUILD) Act, enacted as Division N of the Consolidated 
Appropriations Act, 2018.\38\ The BUILD Act reauthorized the 
Brownfields program through fiscal year (FY) 2023 and made 
several changes to the program, including increasing certain 
per-project funding limits, providing new granting authorities, 
and modifying the definition of a ``bona fide prospective 
purchaser.'' \39\
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    \38\ Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2018, Pub. Law No. 115-141, 
132 Stat. 350.
    \39\ Id.
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    In 2021, the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (IIJA) 
provided a total of $1.5 billion for the program from FY 2022 
through FY 2026.\40\ EPA has reported that of the $1.5 billion 
provided by IIJA, $1.2 billion is allocated for direct grants 
and technical assistance to communities and $300 million is 
allocated for state and Tribal Response programs.\41\
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    \40\ Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, Pub. L. No. 117-58, 
135 Stat 1169.
    \41\ Id.
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    For FY 2024, the Brownfields program received a total of 
$170 million.\42\ This included $25.7 million for program 
administration, $98 million for state and Tribal Response 
programs, and $46.3 million for categorical grants (which 
includes funding for assessment, cleanup, multipurpose, RLF, 
technical assistance, and job training grants).\43\
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    \42\ Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2024, Pub. Law No. 118-42, 
138 Stat. 252.
    \43\ Id.
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PROGRAM SUCCESSES AND CHALLENGES

    The Brownfields program has been generally well received by 
EPA, states, communities, investors, and developers. According 
to EPA, since its inception, the program has made over 10,800 
sites ready for productive reuse, leveraged more than $40.4 
billion in additional cleanup and redevelopment funding, and 
helped to create or leverage more than 270,000 jobs.\44\
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    \44\ EPA, Fiscal Year 2025 Justification of Appropriation Estimate 
for the Committee on Appropriations Tab 05: Environmental Programs and 
Management (Mar. 2024) available at https://www.epa.gov/system/files/
documents/2024-04/fy25-cj-05-epm.pdf.
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    The Office of the Inspector General (OIG) completed two 
reports on the Brownfields Revolving Loan Fund (RLF) Grant 
program in August 2017 \45\ and March 2022.\46\ These reports 
focused on EPA's monitoring of the program income of RLF 
grants. The OIG found in the 2017 report that--of the 20 RLF 
agreements that were reviewed--approximately $10.9 million in 
Federal funding was sitting idle instead of being revolved back 
into other brownfields projects. This is contrary to the goal 
of RLF grants, which are intended to provide an ongoing source 
of capital within a community for brownfields projects. The 
2017 report also identified several inconsistencies in program 
application across the different EPA regions and RLF grant 
recipients.
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    \45\ EPA Office of Inspector General, Improved Management of 
Brownfields Revolving Loan Fund Program Is Required To Maximize 
Cleanups (Aug. 23, 2017) available at https://www.epaoig.gov/sites/
default/files/2017-08/documents/_epaoig_20170823-17-p-0368.pdf. 
[hereinafter OIG Report 17-P-0368].
    \46\ EPA Office of Inspector General, Brownfields Program-Income 
Monitoring Deficiencies Persist Because EPA Did Not Complete All 
Certified Corrective Actions (Mar. 31, 2022) available at https://
www.epaoig.gov/sites/default/files/documents/2022-03/_epaoig_20220331-
22-p-0033.pdf.
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    The 2022 report found that of the 17 recommendations 
addressed to the Office of Brownfields and Land Revitalization 
(OBLR) in the 2017 report, OBLR did not fully complete the 
agreed-to corrective actions for five recommendations, despite 
certifying that those actions were completed.\47\ EPA recently 
reported to the Committee that OBLR has committed to nine of 
the corrective actions in response to six recommendations 
outline in the 2022 OIG report.\48\
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    \47\ Id.
    \48\ EPA to Staff, H. Comm. on Transp. and Infrastructure, (Apr. 22 
at 6:32p.m.) (on file with Comm.).
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                             IV. WITNESSES

     LHon. Terry M. Wilbur, Clerk, Oswego County, New 
York, on behalf of the National Association of Counties
     LMs. Lisa Shook, Assistant Chief, Division of 
Environmental Response and Remediation, Ohio Environmental 
Protection Agency
     LMr. Lance Larson, Analyst in Environmental 
Policy, Resources, Science, and Industry Division, 
Congressional Research Service
     LMr. Michael R. Goldstein, Esq., Managing Partner, 
Goldstein Environmental Law Firm, P.A.

 
   CLEANING UP THE PAST, BUILDING THE FUTURE: THE BROWNFIELDS PROGRAM

                              ----------                              


                         WEDNESDAY, MAY 7, 2025

                  House of Representatives,
   Subcommittee on Water Resources and Environment,
            Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:01 a.m., in 
Room 2167, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Mike Collins 
(Chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Mr. Collins. The Subcommittee on Water Resources and 
Environment will come to order.
    I ask unanimous consent that the chairman be authorized to 
declare a recess at any time during today's hearing. Without 
objection, so ordered.
    I also ask unanimous consent that Members not on the 
subcommittee be permitted to sit with the subcommittee at 
today's hearing and ask questions. Without objection, so 
ordered.
    As a reminder, if Members wish to insert a document into 
the record, please also email it to [email protected].
    I now recognize myself for the purpose of an opening 
statement for 5 minutes.

 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE COLLINS OF GEORGIA, CHAIRMAN, 
        SUBCOMMITTEE ON WATER RESOURCES AND ENVIRONMENT

    Mr. Collins. I want to first thank the witnesses for 
joining us this morning to discuss EPA's Brownfields Program. 
As we review the program, last authorized in 2018, I am looking 
forward to learning from our witnesses about their experiences 
with the program, suggestions for program improvements, as well 
as the tangible impacts it has had on the ground.
    All of us here throughout our travels have seen abandoned 
warehouses, dilapidated gas stations, or vacant factories. 
Often, these blighted properties, which are eyesores in our 
communities, are considered brownfields. Brownfields are 
properties that are abandoned or underused due to concerns 
about environmental contamination, and the EPA has estimated 
that there are more than 450,000 brownfield sites across the 
United States. Their redevelopment and reuse can help increase 
local tax bases, create jobs, and encourage additional 
development.
    According to EPA, since its inception, the program has made 
over 10,800 sites ready for productive reuse, leveraged more 
than $40.4 billion in additional cleanup and redevelopment 
funding, and helped to create or leverage more than 270,000 
jobs. However, property owners and developers are often 
hesitant to finance the redevelopment of these sites because of 
possible liability under CERCLA.
    CERCLA liability is no joke. CERCLA has extremely stringent 
liability standards that could result in a current property 
owner being held responsible for cleanup costs at a site, even 
if there was no negligence on their part or if other parties 
had previously caused the contamination.
    This program provides commonsense liability relief to folks 
who want to improve a degraded site. The EPA Brownfields 
Program helps communities assess and evaluate contamination at 
these sites and provides funding to help clean up and promote 
their redevelopment.
    For example, in my district in Georgia, the program 
assisted the city of Greensboro in addressing contamination in 
an old cotton mill. As part of this project, approximately 
2,600 tons of contaminated soil were removed from the property, 
and the mill was ultimately redeveloped and converted into a 
71-unit apartment complex.
    Federal funding through the Brownfields Program helped 
attract other non-Federal project funding for assessment, 
remediation, and redevelopment efforts. But we know that just 
throwing hard-earned taxpayer money at problems doesn't make 
them go away. That is why I also want to underscore the 
importance of programmatic efficiencies and regulatory relief 
when it comes to redevelopment and timely project completions.
    For far too long, the EPA has placed unattainable 
regulatory and bureaucratic burdens on hard-working Americans 
that cost them time and money. That is why I am working with my 
colleagues here in Congress and with the Trump administration 
on efforts to reduce redtape and streamline the permitting 
processes.
    At the end of the day, these types of improvements will 
help important projects get done more efficiently, whether it's 
redeveloping brownfield sites or constructing an Army Corps 
project. And that benefits all Americans.
    [Mr. Collins' prepared statement follows:]

                                 
 Prepared Statement of Hon. Mike Collins, a Representative in Congress 
    from the State of Georgia, and Chairman, Subcommittee on Water 
                       Resources and Environment
    I want to first thank our witnesses for joining us this morning to 
discuss EPA's Brownfields Program. As we review the program, last 
authorized in 2018, I'm looking forward to learning from our witnesses 
about their experiences with the program, suggestions for program 
improvements, as well as the tangible impact it's had on the ground.
    All of us here, throughout our travels, have seen abandoned 
warehouses, dilapidated gas stations, or vacant factories. Often, these 
blighted properties, which are eyesores in our communities, are 
considered brownfields. Brownfields are properties that are abandoned 
or underused due to concerns about environmental contamination. EPA has 
estimated that there are more than 450,000 brownfield sites across the 
United States. Their redevelopment and reuse can help increase local 
tax bases, create jobs, and encourage additional development.
    According to EPA, since its inception, the program has made over 
10,800 sites ready for productive reuse, leveraged more than $40.4 
billion in additional cleanup and redevelopment funding, and helped to 
create or leverage more than 270,000 jobs.
    However, property owners and developers are often hesitant to 
finance the redevelopment of these sites because of possible liability 
under CERCLA.
    CERCLA liability is no joke. CERCLA has extremely stringent 
liability standards that could result in a current property owner being 
held responsible for cleanup costs at a site, even if there was no 
negligence on their part or if other parties had previously caused the 
contamination.
    This program provides commonsense liability relief to folks who 
want to improve a degraded site. The EPA Brownfields Program helps 
communities assess and evaluate contamination at these sites and 
provides funding to help clean up and promote their redevelopment.
    For example, in my district in Georgia, the program assisted the 
city of Greensboro in addressing contamination at an old cotton mill. 
As part of this project, approximately 2,600 tons of contaminated soil 
were removed from the property, and the mill was ultimately redeveloped 
and converted into a 71-unit apartment complex.
    Federal funding through the Brownfields Program helps attract other 
non-federal project funding for assessment, remediation, and 
redevelopment efforts. But we know that just throwing hard-earned 
taxpayer money at problems doesn't make them go away.
    That's why I also want to underscore the importance of programmatic 
efficiencies and regulatory relief when it comes to redevelopment and 
timely project completions.
    For far too long, the EPA has placed untenable regulatory and 
bureaucratic burdens on hard-working Americans that cost them time and 
money. That's why I am working with my colleagues here in Congress and 
with the Trump Administration on efforts to reduce red tape and 
streamline permitting processes.
    At the end of the day, these types of improvements will help 
important projects get done more efficiently--whether it's redeveloping 
Brownfields sites or constructing an Army Corps project. And that 
benefits all Americans.

    Mr. Collins. I now recognize Ranking Member Wilson for 5 
minutes for an opening statement.

   OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. FREDERICA S. WILSON OF FLORIDA, 
RANKING MEMBER, SUBCOMMITTEE ON WATER RESOURCES AND ENVIRONMENT

    Ms. Wilson of Florida. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for hosting today's discussion on 
how Federal brownfields investments help to revitalize our 
communities.
    EPA's Brownfields Program has, on most accounts, been 
successful in redeveloping abandoned or underutilized 
properties throughout the Nation. According to EPA, roughly 
half of the U.S. population lives within 3 miles of a 
brownfields site that receives EPA funding, which includes 
sites in rural, Tribal, and economically disadvantaged 
communities.
    As of December 2023, EPA brownfields grants have prepared 
over 10,800 properties for productive use and leveraged over 
270,000 jobs and over $40.4 billion in private investment.
    I have heard questions on whether all communities have 
equally benefited from this critical redevelopment investment 
or whether this investment has actually benefited those who 
have had to suffer with legacy contamination for decades. But 
those questions do not undermine the fact that the program is 
making a difference in revitalizing neighborhoods.
    Many States and local governments, such as my home State of 
Florida and Miami-Dade County, have been leaders in the 
implementation of the Brownfields Law.
    In its brief history as a State-delegated Brownfields 
Program, Miami-Dade County has successfully assessed and 
remediated 31 brownfields sites, with an additional 74 sites 
under active review.
    I hope to learn more about these efforts from our witness, 
Mr. Goldstein--welcome, Mr. Goldstein--who worked on projects 
at contaminated sites in over 90 jurisdictions across the State 
of Florida.
    Continued success in brownfields redevelopment depends on 
continued Federal partnerships with, and funding for, States, 
local governments, redevelopment interests, and community 
leaders. Yet, this success is undermined by the chaos that the 
President and his Republican allies in Congress continue to 
create with their management of the Government and the economy. 
This economic chaos created by the President and rubberstamped 
by Republicans in Congress continues to push up inflation and 
the cost of groceries and other commodities, and push down 
consumer confidence.
    In just over 100 days, American families are paying more 
and getting less, and this trend continues.
    States have already testified that the President's 
disruption in water infrastructure financing was having an 
impact on local redevelopment projects, resulting in project 
delays, increased costs, and the potential abandonment of local 
projects.
    This uncertainty is equally felt within the brownfields 
community and made worse by the President's proposal to cut the 
Environmental Protection Agency's investment by a minimum of 65 
percent. This Republican economic chaos threatens the jobs of 
laborers, manufacturers, and brownfields redevelopers, and 
threatens to decimate our national, regional, and local 
economies.
    Our communities cannot withstand further setbacks caused by 
the Republicans' efforts to drive our economy into the ground. 
We cannot allow the President and his allies to hurt American 
families and increase costs and public health risks.
    I stand with our communities who are trying to affordably 
meet their local needs and keep our families safe, healthy, and 
prosperous.
    I yield back the balance of my time.
    [Ms. Wilson of Florida's prepared statement follows:]

                                 
  Prepared Statement of Hon. Frederica S. Wilson, a Representative in 
Congress from the State of Florida, and Ranking Member, Subcommittee on 
                    Water Resources and Environment
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for hosting today's discussion on how 
federal brownfields investments help to revitalize our communities.
    EPA's Brownfields Program has, on most accounts, been successful in 
redeveloping abandoned or under-utilized properties throughout the 
nation.
    According to EPA, roughly half of the U.S. population lives within 
three miles of a brownfields site that receives EPA funding--which 
includes sites in rural, Tribal, and economically-disadvantaged 
communities.
    As of December 2023, EPA brownfields grants have prepared over 
10,800 properties for productive use and leveraged over 270 thousand 
jobs and over $40.4 billion in private investment.
    I have heard questions whether all communities have equally 
benefited from this critical redevelopment investment or whether this 
investment has actually benefited those who have had to suffer with 
legacy contamination for decades.
    But those questions do not undermine the fact that the program is 
making a difference in revitalizing neighborhoods.
    Many States and local governments, such as my home state of Florida 
and Miami-Dade County, have been leaders in the implementation of the 
brownfields law.
    In its brief history as a state-delegated Brownfields Program, 
Miami-Dade County has successfully assessed and remediated 31 
brownfields sites, with an additional 74 sites under active review.
    I hope to learn more about these efforts from our witness, Mr. 
Goldstein, who worked on projects at contaminated sites in over 90 
jurisdictions across the state of Florida.
    Continued success in brownfields redevelopment depends on continued 
federal partnerships with, and funding for, states, local governments, 
redevelopment interests and community leaders.
    Yet, this success is undermined by the chaos that the President, 
and his Republican allies in Congress, continue to create with their 
management of the government and the economy.
    This economic chaos created by the President, and rubber stamped by 
Republicans in Congress, continues to push up inflation and the costs 
of groceries and other commodities, and push down consumer confidence.
    In just over 100 days, American families are paying more and 
getting less--and this trend continues.
    States have already testified that the President's disruption in 
water infrastructure financing was having an impact on local 
redevelopment projects--resulting in project delays, increased costs 
and the potential abandonment of local projects.
    This uncertainty is equally felt within the brownfields community 
and made worse by the President's proposal to zero out EPA investments 
in brownfields and other critical grant programs.
    The President's indifference to the needs of everyday Americans is 
striking. The economic chaos he creates, and that my Republican 
colleagues' silence seems to encourage, threatens the jobs of laborers, 
manufacturers and brownfields redevelopers and threatens to decimate 
our national, regional and local economies.
    Our communities cannot withstand further setbacks caused by the 
Republicans' vainglorious efforts to drive our economy into the ground.
    We cannot allow the President and his allies to burden American 
families with increased costs and public health risks.
    I stand with our communities who are trying to affordably meet 
their local needs and keep our families safe, healthy and prosperous.
    I yield back the balance of my time.

    Mr. Collins. Thank you.
    I would now like to welcome our witnesses, and thank you 
for being here today. We have the Honorable Terry Wilbur from 
Oswego County, as the Oswego County clerk, on behalf of the 
National Association of Counties.
    There, I didn't butcher it.
    Mr. Wilbur. You did good.
    Mr. Collins. We also have Ms. Lisa Shook, assistant chief 
of the Environmental Response and Remediation Division of the 
Ohio EPA; Mr. Lance Larson, analyst in environmental policy at 
the Congressional Research Service; and Mr. Michael Goldstein, 
managing partner at The Goldstein Environmental Law Firm.
    Briefly, I am going to take just a moment to explain our 
lighting system. As you know, there are three lights there, the 
green is when you begin to talk. The yellow will light up as it 
gets near the end of the time, and of course if it turns red, 
then go ahead and please wrap up so that we don't have to bang 
the gavel on you.
    I also ask unanimous consent that the witnesses' full 
statements be included in the record. Without objection, so 
ordered.
    I ask unanimous consent that the record of today's hearing 
remain open until such time as our witnesses have provided 
answers to any questions that may be submitted to them in 
writing. Without objection, so ordered.
    I also ask unanimous consent that the record remain open 
for 15 days for any additional comments and information 
submitted by Members or witnesses to be included in the record 
of today's hearing. Without objection, so ordered.
    As your written testimony has been made part of the record, 
the subcommittee asks that you limit your oral remarks to 5 
minutes.
    With that, Mr. Wilbur, you are recognized for 5 minutes for 
your testimony.

 TESTIMONY OF HON. TERRY M. WILBUR, CLERK, OSWEGO COUNTY, NEW 
 YORK, ON BEHALF OF THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES; LISA 
SHOOK, ASSISTANT CHIEF, DIVISION OF ENVIRONMENTAL RESPONSE AND 
  REMEDIATION, OHIO ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY; LANCE N. 
LARSON, ANALYST IN ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY, CONGRESSIONAL RESEARCH 
SERVICE; AND MICHAEL R. GOLDSTEIN, ESQ., MANAGING PARTNER, THE 
             GOLDSTEIN ENVIRONMENTAL LAW FIRM, P.A.

 TESTIMONY OF HON. TERRY M. WILBUR, CLERK, OSWEGO COUNTY, NEW 
    YORK, ON BEHALF OF THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES

    Mr. Wilbur. Thank you, Chair.
    Chair Collins, Ranking Member Wilson, and distinguished 
members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity 
today. My name is Terry Wilbur, and I serve as the county clerk 
for Oswego County, New York. Today, I am here on behalf of the 
National Association of Counties, which represents all 3,069 
counties, parishes, and boroughs throughout the country, 
including all 62 in my home State of New York.
    Today's hearing is of great importance to counties as we 
are responsible for protecting the environment, ensuring public 
health, and strengthening the economic vitality of our 
communities. The EPA Brownfields Program is a highly effective 
Federal program that helps counties redevelop underutilized, 
contaminated sites to reinvigorate communities and their 
economies, as well.
    There are over 450,000 brownfield sites, and 63 percent of 
counties have at least 1 brownfield site. However, many 
counties have more than 1 brownfield site, including my county, 
Oswego County, where we have 125 sites.
    As many of you know, a brownfield site is an abandoned or 
vacant property that has been exposed to hazardous substances 
or contaminants. Brownfield sites range from former industrial 
complexes to older public buildings and even smaller properties 
such as former gas stations.
    While the presence of brownfield sites can present land-use 
challenges and negatively impact property values, redevelopment 
can spur economic growth and revitalize the surrounding 
environment.
    Oswego County is a rural county located in upstate New York 
that borders Lake Ontario, with a population of 118,000 
residents. Oswego County has received two brownfields 
assessment grants, one in 2004 and another in 2022. This 
funding has been used to identify the 125 brownfield sites that 
we have and conduct the environmental assessments necessary for 
redevelopment at several sites.
    Some completed brownfield assessments and projects in 
Oswego County include two housing developments on the Oswego 
riverfront--the Stevedore Lofts and Harbor View Apartments--
that together created 108 housing units and 5 commercial 
leasing spaces, with a total investment of $30 million.
    We were also able to leverage brownfield assessment funding 
to receive grant funding from the State to restore the historic 
Oswego Lighthouse, which is now open for public tours in the 
heart of our major city.
    The Federal investment from the Brownfields Program is 
crucial for both urban and rural counties. In Oswego County, we 
would not have been able to complete this work without the 
brownfields funding we received.
    To that end, counties have the following recommendations 
for the committee. Our first recommendation is to reauthorize 
the Brownfields Program. Congress should reauthorize the 
Brownfields Program to ensure that this critical source of 
Federal funding remains available to counties for brownfields 
assessments, cleanup, and redevelopment, as well as providing 
incentives for private investment in our communities.
    Our second recommendation is to increase funding levels for 
the Brownfields Program. Congress should increase the overall 
authorization level for the Brownfields Program to allow more 
counties to address brownfield sites. In many States, counties 
are severely constrained in our ability to both raise and 
collect tax revenues. However, counties must still deliver 
essential services to our residents and visitors despite these 
limitations.
    Counties are very grateful for the additional funds 
provided by the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act for the 
Brownfields Program. However, there is still a clear need for 
increased funding as thousands of sites are still waiting to be 
redeveloped.
    Additionally, NACo recommends increasing the cleanup grant 
ceiling to $1 million and the flexibility to award up to $2 
million due to complexity of the cleanup process and to allow 
communities to clean up more sites.
    Our third and final recommendation is to increase the 
administrative cap on Brownfields Program grants. Congress 
should allow counties to use a small portion of their 
brownfield funding to cover reasonable administrative costs. 
Many rural counties face difficulties in accessing Federal 
funds as they have limited staff, expertise, and financial 
resources available to complete these complex grant 
applications or to comply with the burdensome reporting.
    In conclusion, counties recognize the Brownfields Program 
is a vital component of the intergovernmental partnership to 
drive economic development, address environmental concerns, and 
protect public health.
    I would also like to thank the U.S. Conference of Mayors 
and National League of Cities who have been great partners in 
our joint efforts to reauthorize the Brownfields Program.
    Thank you for your attention to this critical issue, and I 
urge your support for reauthorization of the Brownfields 
Program. And I want to thank you again for the opportunity to 
testify today. I look forward to answering any questions you 
may have. Thank you.
    [Mr. Wilbur's prepared statement follows:]

                                 
 Prepared Statement of Hon. Terry M. Wilbur, Clerk, Oswego County, New 
        York, on behalf of the National Association of Counties
                              Introduction
    Chair Collins, Ranking Member Wilson, and distinguished members of 
the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today on the 
Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA) Brownfields Program. I also 
want to thank Chairman Graves and Ranking Member Larsen for their 
leadership and support of the Brownfields Program at the full committee 
level.
    My name is Terry Wilbur, and I serve as the County Clerk for Oswego 
County, New York. Today I am here on behalf of the National Association 
of Counties (NACo), which represents all 3,069 counties, parishes and 
boroughs throughout the country, including the 62 counties in my home 
state of New York.
    Today's hearing is of great importance to both urban and rural 
counties as we are responsible for protecting the environment, ensuring 
public health and strengthening the economic vitality of our 
communities. The EPA Brownfields Program is a highly successful and 
effective federal program that helps counties redevelop underutilized, 
contaminated sites to reinvigorate entire communities and their 
economies.
    As many of you know, a Brownfields site is an abandoned or vacant 
property that has been exposed to hazardous substances or contaminants. 
Brownfields sites range from former industrial complexes to older 
public buildings and even smaller properties such as former gas 
stations. EPA estimates there are over 450,000 brownfield sites 
throughout the country and 63 percent of counties have at least one 
Brownfield site in their boundaries. However, many counties have more 
than one Brownfield site, including Oswego County, with 125 identified 
sites. While the presence of Brownfield sites can present land use 
challenges and negatively impact property values, redevelopment can 
spur economic growth and revitalize the surrounding environment.
                               About NACo
    Founded in 1935, NACo is the only national organization that 
represents county governments in the United States and brings together 
county officials to advocate with a collective voice on national 
policy, exchange ideas, build new leadership skills, pursue 
transformational county solutions, enrich the public's understanding of 
county government and exercise exemplary leadership in public service.
                        About America's Counties
    Counties employ more than 3.6 million Americans who support 1,900 
local public health departments, 900 hospitals, 700 long-term care 
facilities, 750 behavioral health centers and 91 percent of local 
jails. Counties also maintain 44 percent of America's roads, 38 percent 
of bridges, a third of airports and 40 percent of the nation's public 
transit systems. We are responsible for emergency operations, 911 
services, public safety and protective services for vulnerable 
populations. Counties are also environmental stewards responsible for 
protecting local water, air and land resources. Annually, counties 
invest nearly $743 billion in our communities, including more than $146 
billion in public infrastructure and facilities.
    Counties are highly diverse and vary immensely in natural 
resources, social and political systems, cultural, economic and 
structural circumstances, and public health and environmental 
responsibilities. Counties range in area from 26 square miles 
(Arlington County, Virginia) to 87,860 square miles (North Slope 
Borough, Alaska). The population of counties varies from Loving County, 
Texas, with just under 100 residents, to Los Angeles County, 
California, which is home to nearly ten million people. Of the nation's 
3,069 counties, approximately 70 percent are considered ``rural,'' with 
populations less than 50,000, and 50 percent of these have populations 
below 25,000. At the same time, there are more than 120 major urban 
counties, which collectively provide essential services to more than 
130 million people every day.
    Many of our responsibilities are mandated by federal and state 
governments. Although counties cover a wide range of responsibilities, 
most states require counties to carry out a range of critical services 
and support for our residents. These responsibilities include 
construction and maintenance of roads, bridges and other 
infrastructure, assessment of property taxes, record keeping, 
administering elections and overseeing jails, court systems and public 
hospitals. Land use planning, environmental protection and local and 
regional economic development are critical components of these 
responsibilities and often converge around the reuse of Brownfields.
                          About Oswego County
    Oswego County is a rural county located in upstate New York that 
borders Lake Ontario. The total population of the county is 118,000 
people, most of which is concentrated in the cities of Oswego and 
Fulton that border the Oswego River. Oswego County has 125 Brownfield 
sites, many of which are former industrial facilities. Between 1980-
2010 the county's industrial base declined as major companies such as 
Nestle, Hammermill and Miller Brewing closed their doors. Many of these 
once prosperous facilities with prime waterfront locations became 
vacant properties contaminated with hazardous substances.
    Oswego County is also home to the Port of Oswego, the first U.S. 
port of call and deepwater port on the Great Lakes from the St. 
Lawrence Seaway. Located on Lake Ontario on route to the interior of 
North America, we are accessible from any international port in the 
world. The historical port is also home to Oswego Marina, Goble Marina, 
the H. Lee White Marine Museum, and historic maritime district. The 
Port of Oswego's strategic location at the crossroads of the 
Northeastern North American shipping market, puts us less than 350 
miles from 60 million people. Extend that to 750 miles and we reach 
half of the United States and Canadian population, and half of their 
business and manufacturing facilities. The Port of Oswego is New York 
State's only Grain Export Center on Lake Ontario and home to 14 
companies that utilize the Port for both their domestic and 
international operations. A 2023 U.S./Canadian research study shows 
that the Port of Oswego Authority makes a $513 million impact on the 
local and regional economy and supports 2,229 jobs by its maritime 
activity.
    Oswego County has received two Brownfields Assessment grants, 
$400,000 in 2004 and $500,000 in 2022. This funding has been used to 
identify the 125 Brownfield sites and conduct the environmental site 
assessments necessary for redevelopment at several sites. The 
Brownfields assessment grants are critical to our ability to repurpose 
Brownfield sites and turn these once blighted properties into tax 
revenue generators for the county. We would not be able to do this work 
without the assessment grants we have received.
    Some completed Brownfields assessment and redevelopment projects in 
Oswego County include:

      The Stevedore Lofts--a multi-use historic building 
located on the Oswego River featuring apartments, office, and retail 
space ideal for commuters to and from Syracuse and convenient access to 
SUNY Oswego.

      The Harborview apartments--a vacant lot that now hosts an 
apartment complex of four buildings. The former blighted condition and 
underutilization of the property negatively impacted downtown, the 
waterfront, and the gateway to the waterfront. The redevelopment of the 
site plays an integral role in the creation of the waterfront corridor 
by connecting the downtown business district to the western waterfront 
district. Together these two housing developments have added 108 
housing units and 5 commercial leasing spaces with a total investment 
of $30 million.

      The Oswego West Pierhead Lighthouse--the Brownfield 
assessment grant funded a Phase I assessment which allowed the State to 
ultimately provide grant funding for the exterior restoration of this 
historic site. As a result, this ultimately saved this historic gem 
which is iconic to the historic landscape of the port city. Now there 
are historic tours that are offered, and the site is saved for future 
generations.

      Former Columbia Mills Superfund site--this site is 
located in the city of Minetto on the Oswego River. The Phase I 
assessment for this site was recently completed and we are currently in 
talks with a potential developer for up to 96 housing units.

      Lake Ontario Industrial Park--a 50 acre facility within 
an Oswego Opportunity Zone located one mile from the Port of Oswego and 
12 miles from the Oswego County Airport, is prime for future expansion 
for commercial purposes or housing. The Phase I assessment is completed 
and a Phase 2 assessment is needed to continue working toward the 
future of this property.

      Former Nestle Building--a Phase I assessment has been 
completed, and we are working on a Phase II assessment to work toward 
the safest way to remove the hazardous chemicals that are still present 
on the property.

    As you can see from these examples, the Brownfields Program has 
been very successful in Oswego County. However, with 125 brownfield 
sites throughout the county there is still much work to be done.
                   Impact of Brownfields on Counties
    While the presence of Brownfields sites can negatively impact 
county governments from both an economic and environmental perspective, 
there are multiple benefits associated with redeveloping these sites. 
By providing funding for redevelopment, the EPA Brownfields Program 
benefits counties by both spurring economic growth and protecting 
public health and the environment.
    Economic development is important for counties because it helps to 
retain and grow jobs and investment within a community. The tax base 
that is created through this growth and investment is used by counties 
to provide essential services such as police and fire, road and bridge 
construction, transit operations, senior services, parks and 
recreation, library services and more. In many states, counties are 
severely constrained in their ability to raise and collect tax revenue. 
Forty-two states limit county property tax authority, and restrictions 
have expanded extensively in recent decades. In New York counties are 
subject to an annual statewide property tax growth cap of 2 percent and 
must receive permission from the State to levy a sales tax greater than 
3 percent. Despite limitations and unfunded mandates placed on counties 
from both federal and state governments, counties must still deliver 
essential services to our residents and visitors.
    The EPA Brownfields Program is a critical tool for counties to 
bolster our economic development by providing support for cleaning up 
and reusing Brownfields sites which, in turn, strengthens the local 
economy, creates new jobs and increases the tax base. Brownfields 
redevelopment has been an indispensable component of our economic 
development in Oswego County. Any changes to the federal program and 
its requirements would directly affect our residents and our local 
economy.
    County governments play a critical role in addressing environmental 
and public health concerns at Brownfield sites. While these sites are 
generally not considered ``highly contaminated,'' the types and levels 
of contaminants present can vary and may directly or indirectly impact 
groundwater and the surrounding land and buildings. Types of 
contaminants include lead, asbestos, petroleum products, treated wood, 
industrial chemicals and diesel fuel. To fully protect human health, 
safeguard the environment and foster economic development, cleanup and 
redevelopment of these sites are necessary. The EPA Brownfields Program 
helps counties achieve these goals.
 Recommendations for the reauthorization of the EPA Brownfields Program
    The federal investment from the Brownfields Program is crucial for 
both urban and rural counties by providing funds needed for the cleanup 
and redevelopment of contaminated sites, which helps to attract new 
business and provide new economic development opportunities for our 
communities. The Brownfields Program has historically been a highly 
successful federal program and should be reauthorized and properly 
funded by Congress.
    Counties offer the following recommendations to Congress regarding 
the Brownfields Program:
1) Reauthorize the Brownfields Program
    Congress should reauthorize the Brownfields Program to ensure that 
this critical source of federal funding remains available to counties 
for Brownfields assessment, cleanup, and redevelopment, as well as 
providing incentives for private investment in our communities. 
Brownfields exist in rural as well as urban and suburban counties and 
redevelopment of these abandoned or underutilized sites is vital in 
stimulating economic revitalization in these areas in counties across 
the United States.
    It is essential that federal resources remain available for 
counties. As such, NACo urges Congress to reauthorize the EPA 
Brownfields Program.
2) Increase funding levels for the Brownfields Program
    Many Brownfield sites remain underutilized because of the limited 
availability of funds to identify and clean up contaminated sites. It 
is difficult for counties to fund Brownfields projects without federal 
support due to high remediation costs and associated regulatory issues.
    Congress should increase the overall authorization level for the 
Brownfields Program to allow more counties to address Brownfield sites. 
Counties greatly appreciate the $1.5 billion provided for the 
Brownfields Program by Congress in the bipartisan Infrastructure 
Investment and Jobs Act (IIJA). However, the previous Brownfields 
reauthorization legislation, the Brownfields Utilization, Investment, 
and Local Development Act of 2018 authorized the Brownfields Program at 
$200 million per fiscal year which is the same level of funding that 
was authorized in 2002. While authorized funding has remained stagnant, 
the cost of addressing and effectively remediating these sites has 
grown significantly. NACo urges Congress to increase the funding 
authorizations in Brownfields reauthorization legislation.
    Additionally, counties recommend increasing the cleanup grant 
ceiling to $1 million with the flexibility to award up to $2 million in 
special circumstances in recognition of the complexity of the cleanup 
process and provide greater certainty for long-term project financing, 
as well as increased flexibility.
3) Increase the administrative cap on Brownfields Program grants
    Congress should increase the cap on administrative costs in future 
reauthorization legislation. This would allow counties to use a small 
portion of their Brownfields funding to cover reasonable administrative 
costs that are necessary for carrying out the functional purpose of the 
grant. Many rural counties face difficulties in accessing federal funds 
as they have limited staff, expertise and financial resources available 
to complete complex grant applications or to comply with burdensome 
reporting requirements. Counties support increasing this cap to provide 
additional flexibility for administrative costs so that rural counties 
can continue to take advantage of this critical program.
                               Conclusion
    Chair Collins, Ranking Member Wilson and distinguished subcommittee 
members, thank you for the opportunity to testify today on the positive 
impact of the EPA's Brownfields Program on America's counties. I would 
also like to thank U.S. Conference of Mayors and National League of 
Cities, who have both been great partners in our joint efforts to 
modernize and reauthorize the Brownfields Program.
    Counties recognize the Brownfields Program as a vital component of 
the intergovernmental partnership to drive economic development, create 
good jobs, address environmental concerns, and protect public health. 
The Brownfields Program has proven incredibly successful and will 
continue to be successful if reauthorized and properly funded.
    Thank you for your attention to this important issue. We urge you 
to reauthorize the Brownfields Program and look forward to working 
together.

    Mr. Collins. Thank you.
    Ms. Shook, you are recognized for 5 minutes for your 
testimony.

     TESTIMONY OF LISA SHOOK, ASSISTANT CHIEF, DIVISION OF 
  ENVIRONMENTAL RESPONSE AND REMEDIATION, OHIO ENVIRONMENTAL 
                       PROTECTION AGENCY

    Ms. Shook. Good morning, Chairman Collins, Ranking Member 
Wilson, and members of the committee. Thank you for the 
opportunity to appear before you today to share Ohio's 
perspective on the reauthorization of U.S. EPA's Brownfields 
Program.
    Across Ohio and the United States, thousands of former 
industrial and commercial sites sit idle, tainted by 
environmental contamination. These brownfields become urban 
blights and contribute to economic decline, public health 
risks, and neighborhood stagnation.
    The Brownfields Program administered by U.S. EPA offers a 
consistent and effective solution. The program facilitates the 
identification, assessment, cleanup, and reuse of these 
properties, revitalizing communities and stimulating economic 
growth.
    State and Tribal assistance grants are noncompetitive 
grants authorized under section 128(a) of the Comprehensive 
Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act, as 
amended. These grants are the foundation of States' Brownfields 
Programs.
    U.S. EPA allows States flexibility to design their 
Brownfields Programs to benefit each State's needs, while also 
providing consistency by requiring that all grantees meet four 
elements. The first is a survey and inventory of brownfield 
sites. Second is oversight and enforcement authorities to 
ensure that cleanups are protective of human health and the 
environment. Third is mechanisms for meaningful public 
participation, and fourth is mechanisms for approval of cleanup 
plans and verification or certification that cleanup is 
complete.
    With these four elements, the section 128(a) funds have a 
wide variety of uses, including providing funds to complete 
environmental assessments to properties to meet all appropriate 
inquiry or voluntary cleanup program requirements, phase 2 
sampling, and asbestos and lead inspections.
    Last Federal fiscal year, Ohio funded 20 assessments 
through our standard allocation and 63 through our supplemental 
allocation provided by the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs 
Act.
    The grant enables the State to incorporate local input into 
redevelopment planning, including infrastructure evaluations 
and site reuse assessments. This effort aims to help 
communities reinvent their lake and riverfronts, main streets, 
and industrial corridors, creating parks, housing, mixed-use 
development, and commercial centers to stimulate job creation, 
tourism, and tax revenues.
    This community-driven approach ensures that redevelopment 
serves the people most affected by these long neglected 
properties. For example, in Shadyside, Ohio, we are working 
with the community to develop a brownfield vision plan that 
includes a brownfield inventory, market study, community 
outreach and survey, brownfield site reuse renderings, and a 
resource roadmap of how to move forward with the selected 
projects.
    We recently completed a brownfield vision plan in Bellaire, 
Ohio, where we are now working on a reuse assessment to create 
viable reuse scenarios for their downtown corridor.
    Our program supports local officials in preparing grant 
applications for the competitive brownfield grants by providing 
workshops to further build their capacity to apply for and hold 
Federal grants. And for the last round of grant applications, 
we supported 14 communities in applying for their own 
brownfield grants. These workshops also educate local 
communities about the many brownfield issues and incentives 
that are available at the State and Federal level.
    We routinely meet with community officials and others to 
assist them in working through the assessment and cleanup of 
brownfield properties and provide much needed grant-funded 
technical support and recommendations. Last Federal fiscal 
year, Ohio brownfields staff met with 60 communities, gave 12 
presentations on brownfield issues, and provided 18 communities 
with grant-funded technical assistance.
    The grant also supports the State's voluntary cleanup 
programs which provide the foundation for setting cleanup goals 
and implementing institutional controls. In Ohio, our voluntary 
cleanup program was created in 1994. We call it the Voluntary 
Action Program. To date, the Voluntary Action Program has 
achieved cleanup at 750 sites, allowing over 17,000 acres to be 
reused across Ohio. The grant allows us to fund long-term 
oversight activities to ensure these sites remain protective of 
human health and the environment.
    The Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act provided an 
additional $50 million through a competitive communitywide 
assessment grant for States and Tribes. In Federal fiscal year 
2022, Ohio was awarded nearly $2 million to conduct additional 
assessments. With these funds, Ohio's Brownfields Program has 
completed another 62 assessments within the award period, for a 
total of 145 assessments over our 3 grants.
    Since 2023, Ohio's section 128(a) funds and communitywide 
assessment grant have leveraged $54 million in additional 
State-funded brownfield assessment and cleanup dollars, and 
prior evaluations by U.S. EPA show that over $20 was leveraged 
for each dollar of EPA brownfield funds spent on assessment and 
cleanup activities.
    The Brownfields Program is a great example of how 
environmental cleanup and economic revitalization are not 
competing priorities, but complementary goals that can help 
build a stronger future for all Americans.
    Thank you for the opportunity to share my thoughts today, 
and I look forward to your questions.
    [Ms. Shook's prepared statement follows:]

                                 
    Prepared Statement of Lisa Shook, Assistant Chief, Division of 
 Environmental Response and Remediation, Ohio Environmental Protection 
                                 Agency
    Good morning, Chairman Collins, Ranking Member Wilson, and members 
of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you 
today to share Ohio's perspective on the reauthorization of U.S. EPA's 
Brownfield Program.
    Across Ohio and the United States, thousands of former industrial 
and commercial sites sit idle, tainted by environmental contamination. 
These brownfields become urban blights and contribute to economic 
decline, public health risks, and neighborhood stagnation.
    The brownfield program administered by the U.S. EPA offers a 
consistent and effective solution. The program facilitates the 
identification, assessment, cleanup, and reuse of these properties, 
revitalizing communities and stimulating economic growth.
    State and tribal assistance grants are noncompetitive grants 
authorized under Section 128(a) of the Comprehensive Environmental 
Response, Compensation, and Liability Act (``CERCLA''), as amended. 
These grants are the foundation of states' brownfield programs. U.S. 
EPA allows states flexibility to design their brownfield programs to 
benefit each state's needs while also providing consistency by 
requiring that all grantees meet four elements:
    1.  A survey and inventory of brownfield sites,
    2.  Oversight and enforcement authorities ensure that cleanups are 
protective of human health and the environment,
    3.  Mechanisms for meaningful public participation, and,
    4.  Mechanisms for approval of cleanup plans, and verification or 
certification that cleanup is complete.

    Within these four elements, the 128(a) funds have a wide variety of 
uses, including providing funds to complete environmental assessments 
of properties to meet all appropriate inquiry or voluntary cleanup 
program requirements, Phase II sampling, and asbestos and lead 
inspections. Last federal fiscal year, Ohio funded 20 assessments 
through our standard allocation and 63 through our supplemental 
allocation provided by the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act.
    The grant enables the state to incorporate local input into 
redevelopment planning, including infrastructure evaluations and site 
re-use assessments. This effort aims to help communities reinvent their 
lake and riverfronts, main streets, and industrial corridors, creating 
parks, housing, mixed-use development, and commercial centers to 
stimulate job creation, tourism, and tax revenues. This community-
driven approach ensures that redevelopment serves the people most 
affected by these long-neglected properties. For example, in Shadyside, 
Ohio, we are working with the community to develop a Brownfield Vision 
Plan that includes a brownfield inventory, market study, community 
outreach, and survey, brownfield site reuse renderings, and a resource 
roadmap of how to move forward with the selected projects. We recently 
completed a brownfield vision plan in Bellaire, Ohio, and we are now 
working on a downtown reuse assessment to create viable reuse scenarios 
for their downtown corridor.
    Our program also supports local officials in preparing grant 
applications for the competitive brownfield grants providing workshops 
to further build their capacity to apply for and hold federal grants. 
For the last round of grant applications, Ohio's program supported 14 
communities in applying for their own brownfield grants. These 
workshops also educate local communities about the many brownfield 
issues and the incentives that are available at the state and federal 
level.
    We routinely meet with community officials and others to assist 
them in working through the assessment and cleanup of brownfield 
properties and provide much-needed grant-funded technical support and 
recommendations. Last federal fiscal year, Ohio brownfields staff met 
with 60 communities, gave 12 presentations on brownfield issues, and 
provided 18 communities with grant-funded technical assistance.
    The grant also supports the state's Voluntary Cleanup Programs 
(VCP), which provide the foundation for setting cleanup goals and 
implementing institutional controls. In Ohio, our voluntary clean-up 
program was created in 1994; we call it the Voluntary Action Program. 
To date, the Voluntary Action Program has achieved clean-up at 750 
sites, allowing over 17,000 acres to be reused across Ohio. The grant 
allows us to fund long-term oversight activities to ensure these sites 
remain protective of human health and the environment.
    The Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act provided an additional 
$50 million through a competitive Community-Wide Assessment Grant for 
States and Tribes. In federal fiscal year 2022, Ohio was awarded nearly 
$2 million to conduct additional assessments. With these additional 
funds, Ohio's brownfield program has completed another 62 assessments 
within the award period, for a total of 145 assessments over our 3 
grants.
    Since 2023, Ohio's 128(a) funds and Community-Wide Assessment Grant 
have leveraged $54 million in additional state-funded brownfield 
assessment and cleanup dollars, and prior evaluations by U.S. EPA 
showed that $20.13 was leveraged for each dollar of EPA brownfield 
funds spent on assessment and cleanup activities.
    The Brownfield program is a great example of how environmental 
cleanup and economic revitalization are not competing priorities but 
complementary goals that can help build a stronger future for all 
Americans.
    Thank you for the opportunity to share my thoughts today, and I 
look forward to your questions.

    Mr. Collins. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Larson for 5 minutes for your 
testimony.

TESTIMONY OF LANCE N. LARSON, ANALYST IN ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY, 
                 CONGRESSIONAL RESEARCH SERVICE

    Mr. Larson. Thank you.
    Chairman Collins, Ranking Member Wilson, and members of the 
subcommittee, my name is Lance Larson. I am an analyst in 
environmental policy with the Congressional Research Service. 
Thank you for inviting me today to testify on behalf of CRS 
regarding the Federal Brownfields Program.
    In serving Congress on a nonpartisan and objective basis, 
CRS takes no position on these issues. I have been asked by the 
subcommittee today to provide a broad overview of the Federal 
Brownfields Program, including a brief history of the program, 
liability considerations, and other policy matters for 
Congress.
    Enacted in 1980, the Comprehensive Environmental Response, 
Compensation, and Liability Act, or CERCLA, otherwise known as 
the Superfund Law, authorizes environmental cleanup and 
enforcement actions to respond to actual or threatened releases 
of hazardous substances, pollutants, or contaminants into the 
environment.
    Under CERCLA, the U.S. EPA, in coordination with the 
States, prioritizes the cleanup of contaminated sites on non-
Federal lands under the Federal Superfund Program.
    In 1993, EPA established a pilot initiative under the 
Superfund Program to assist communities with the remediation of 
certain lower risk contaminated sites to encourage or 
facilitate economic redevelopment or reuse. EPA referred to 
these properties as ``brownfields,'' to distinguish them from 
both higher risk contaminated sites designated on the National 
Priorities List under the Superfund Program and from other 
sites where Federal response actions were taken to address 
emergency situations.
    In 2002, Congress amended CERCLA to authorize EPA to 
administer a dedicated Brownfields Program separately from the 
Superfund Program.
    In 2018, Congress enacted the BUILD Act, which amended 
CERCLA to reauthorize the Brownfields Program. The BUILD Act 
extended the authorizations of appropriations through fiscal 
year 2023, among other statutory changes to the program.
    As it functions today, the Federal Brownfields Program 
provides grant assistance to State, local, Tribal governments, 
and nonprofit organizations for the assessment and cleanup of 
potentially contaminated sites.
    CERCLA defines eligible brownfield sites as ``real 
property, the expansion, redevelopment, or reuse of which may 
be complicated by the presence or potential presence of a 
hazardous substance, pollutant, or contaminant.''
    CERCLA generally excludes sites from brownfields grant 
eligibility that are addressed under the Superfund Program or 
under other related Federal cleanup programs and authorities.
    Subject to the availability of appropriations, the Federal 
Brownfields Program provides two types of grants: those that 
EPA awards on a competitive basis for assessment and cleanup of 
eligible brownfield sites, and those that are awarded on a 
formula basis to assist States and Tribes in carrying out their 
own cleanup programs.
    Congress funds these grants annually through the 
discretionary appropriations process.
    The Brownfields Program statutory authorities do not have a 
sunset date; however, authorization of appropriations for the 
Brownfields Programs grants expired at the end of fiscal year 
2023, and Congress has continued to appropriate funding 
annually to implement the Brownfields Program. Annual 
appropriations have been less than authorized amounts and have 
remained relatively constant, in nominal terms, since fiscal 
year 2003.
    In addition to prior appropriations, Infrastructure 
Investment and Jobs Act provided an additional total of $1.5 
billion over a 5-year period through fiscal year 2026.
    CERCLA provides a mechanism to compel potentially 
responsible parties to pay for the cleanup of hazardous 
substances. CERCLA established financial liability for those 
parties, which may include current or former owners and 
operators of a site; generators and parties that arrange for 
the transport, disposal, and treatment of hazardous substances; 
and transporters of hazardous substances to a facility.
    These categories of parties are generally prohibited from 
obtaining a brownfields grant. However, Congress amended CERCLA 
to provide certain liability exemptions designed in tandem to 
work with the Brownfields Program.
    If Congress considers reauthorization in this session, as 
it has done in the past, Congress may consider certain elements 
of this Brownfields Program, such as the duration of 
reauthorization, statutory caps on grant amounts, criteria for 
assessing grant applications, and past and future expected 
program outcomes.
    This concludes my prepared statement. Thank you for the 
opportunity to appear before the subcommittee today. I would be 
happy to address any questions you may have.
    [Mr. Larson's prepared statement follows:]

                                 
Prepared Statement of Lance N. Larson, Analyst in Environmental Policy, 
                     Congressional Research Service
    Chairman Collins, Ranking Member Wilson, and Members of the 
Subcommittee, my name is Lance Larson. I am an Analyst in Environmental 
Policy for the Congressional Research Service (CRS). Thank you for 
inviting me to testify on behalf of CRS regarding the federal 
Brownfields program.
    In serving Congress on a non-partisan and objective basis, CRS 
takes no position on these issues. I have been asked by the 
Subcommittee today to provide a broad overview of the federal 
Brownfields program, including a brief history of the program, some 
liability considerations, and other policy matters for Congress. CRS 
remains available to assist the Subcommittee with these and related 
issues.
                     History of Brownfields Program
    Enacted in 1980, the Comprehensive Environmental Response, 
Compensation, and Liability Act (CERCLA),\1\ otherwise known as the 
``Superfund Law'', authorizes environmental cleanup and enforcement 
actions to respond to actual or threatened releases of hazardous 
substances, pollutants, or contaminants into the environment. Under 
CERCLA, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), in coordination 
with the states, prioritizes the cleanup of contaminated sites on non-
federal lands under the federal Superfund Program.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ P.L. 96-510.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In 1993, EPA established a pilot initiative under the Superfund 
program to assist communities with the remediation of certain lower 
risk contaminated sites to encourage or facilitate economic 
redevelopment or reuse. EPA referred to these properties as 
``brownfields'' to distinguish them from both higher-risk contaminated 
sites designated on the National Priorities List under the Superfund 
program and from other sites where federal response actions were taken 
to address emergency situations. In 2002, Congress amended CERCLA to 
authorize EPA to administer a dedicated Brownfields program separately 
from the Superfund program.\2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ Title II of the Small Business Liability Relief and Brownfields 
Revitalization Act of 2002; P.L. 107-118.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In 2018, Congress enacted the BUILD Act, which amended CERCLA to 
reauthorize the Brownfields program.\3\ The BUILD Act extended the 
authorizations of appropriations through FY2023, expanded the 
eligibility criteria for non-profit organizations, and increased the 
maximum dollar limit for individual remediation grants, among other 
statutory changes to the program.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2018, P.L. 115-141; Division 
N--``BUILD Act.''
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    Overview of Brownfields Program
    As it functions today, the federal Brownfields program provides 
grant assistance to state, local, and tribal governments and non-profit 
organizations for the assessment and cleanup of potentially 
contaminated sites. CERCLA defines eligible brownfields sites as ``real 
property, the expansion, redevelopment, or reuse of which may be 
complicated by the presence or potential presence of a hazardous 
substance, pollutant, or contaminant.''
    CERCLA generally excludes sites from Brownfields grant eligibility 
that are addressed under the Superfund program or other related federal 
cleanup programs or authorities. These exclusions generally are 
intended to avoid potential overlap or duplication of cleanup 
resources.
    Subject to the availability of appropriations, the federal 
Brownfields program provides two types of grants--those that EPA awards 
on a competitive basis for the assessment and cleanup of eligible 
brownfields sites and those that are noncompetitively awarded on a 
formula basis to assist states and tribes in carrying out their own 
cleanup programs. Congress funds these grants annually through the 
discretionary appropriations process.
    The Brownfields program's statutory authorities do not have a 
sunset date. However, authorization of appropriations for the 
Brownfields program grants expired at the end of FY2023, and Congress 
has continued to appropriate funding annually to implement the 
Brownfields program. From FY2019 to FY2024, annual appropriations were 
generally less than the authorized amounts of $200 million for 
competitive grants and $50 million for state and tribal formula grants. 
Appropriations have remained relatively constant in nominal terms since 
FY 2003. In addition to prior appropriations, the Infrastructure 
Investment and Jobs Act \4\ provided a total of $1.5 billion over a 5-
year period from FY2022 through FY2026. Of that amount, $1.2 billion 
would be provided for the competitive grants and $300 million for state 
and tribal formula grants.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \4\ P.L. 117-58.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                               Liability
    CERCLA provides a mechanism to compel ``potentially responsibility 
parties'' (PRPs) to perform or pay for a cleanup of hazardous 
substances. CERCLA established financial liability for PRPs, which may 
include the current or former owner or operator of a facility; 
generators and parties that arranged for the transport, disposal, or 
treatment of hazardous substances; and transporters of hazardous 
substances to a facility. PRPs are generally prohibited from obtaining 
a Brownfields grant in order to hold liable parties responsible for the 
costs of cleanup and to minimize burden on the federal taxpayer.
    In response to CERCLA liability concerns over acquiring and 
redeveloping certain properties, Congress amended CERCLA to provide 
certain liability exemptions designed to work in tandem with the 
Brownfields program. For example, Congress provided a liability 
exemption for ``bona fide'' prospective purchasers if the property is 
acquired in a contaminated condition, the purchaser is not otherwise a 
liable party at the site, and the purchaser conducted ``All Appropriate 
Inquiries'' into the prior uses of the property prior to the 
acquisition to determine whether contamination may be present. 
Additionally, Congress clarified that state or local governments that 
acquire a property involuntarily through bankruptcy, tax delinquency, 
abandonment, or other circumstances are exempt from owner or operator 
liability under CERCLA, so long as the state or local government did 
not cause or contribute to the contamination.
                      Considerations for Congress
    Congress may consider whether funds going towards the Brownfields 
program have achieved the intended purpose of the program. If Congress 
considers reauthorization in this session, as it has done in the past, 
Congress may consider certain elements of the Brownfields program, such 
as the duration of reauthorization, statutory caps on grant amounts, 
criteria for assessing grant applications, and past and future expected 
program outcomes.
    This concludes my prepared statement. Thank you for the opportunity 
to appear before the Subcommittee today. I would be happy to address 
any questions you may have.

    Mr. Collins. Thank you.
    I now recognize Mr. Goldstein for 5 minutes for your 
testimony.

TESTIMONY OF MICHAEL R. GOLDSTEIN, ESQ., MANAGING PARTNER, THE 
             GOLDSTEIN ENVIRONMENTAL LAW FIRM, P.A.

    Mr. Goldstein. Thank you.
    Good morning Chairman Collins, Ranking Member Wilson, and 
members of the committee. My name is Michael Goldstein. I am 
the managing partner of The Goldstein Environmental Law Firm, a 
principal of Goldstein Kite Environmental, a past president of 
the Florida Brownfields Association, and past chair of the 
National Brownfields Coalition's Public Policy Committee.
    It is a distinct honor to participate in this hearing and 
share suggestions on how to build on what has been the most 
important, impactful, and results-producing Federal program in 
my 33 years of practice.
    While Congress and every State government in the Nation, 
including the great State of Florida, have supported 
brownfields work since the mid-1990s, the hundreds of thousands 
of brownfields across the country require additional Federal 
resources.
    My remarks today are informed by over three decades of 
assisting local governments, developers, growers, 
manufacturers, schools, and capital providers navigate the 
risks of cleaning up and redeveloping contaminated land. I also 
invest in them personally and, accordingly, have a 360-degree 
view of what aspects of the Federal Brownfields Program have 
worked well and where opportunities remain to overcome 
persistent challenges. The private sector wants to do more, but 
we need more help from Congress.
    I would like to speak first to Florida's Brownfields 
Program, which was an early leader nationally in encouraging 
environmental redevelopment.
    Florida's program was enacted on July 1, 1997, and in the 
ensuing 28 years, has sparked the creation of 90,000 indirect 
and direct jobs and the investment of over $3.18 billion. 
Through February of this year, local governments have 
designated 613 brownfield areas, totaling 290,000 acres. Over 
530 voluntary cleanup agreements have been executed. Over 235 
brownfield sites have been cleaned up.
    Florida has accomplished this outstanding result with a mix 
of economic incentives, including tax credits and tax refunds, 
a loan guarantee fund, liability protection at the State level, 
and a streamlined regulatory review process.
    It is with this model in mind that the following seven 
specific recommendations are made.
    First, as part of a forthcoming bipartisan tax bill, renew 
the Federal brownfield tax incentive, which was passed in 1997 
to allow parties who voluntarily investigate and remediate 
contaminated properties to deduct all cleanup costs on their 
Federal income tax return in the year they spend money on 
cleanup.
    Second, create a brownfields loan guarantee program. This 
program would combine aspects of the Department of Energy Loan 
Guarantee Program with a New Markets Tax Credit Program to 
leverage billions of private-sector dollars for early-stage 
bridge financing of redevelopment projects that are considered 
too risky for conventional lenders.
    Third, prioritize affordable housing built on brownfield 
sites by amending section 42 of the IRS Code to increase the 
Low-Income Housing Tax Credit to 12 percent, the stepped-up 
basis to 150 percent, and to create a new, one-time LIHTC in 
the amount of 80 percent of the cost of land acquisition and 
demolition.
    Fourth, dramatically increase flexibility for EPA grant 
program users by eliminating the match requirement, expanding 
allowable expenses to include demolition and environmental 
insurance, and for the first time ever, making all such grants 
available to for-profit developers of affordable and workforce 
housing. That would be a game changer.
    Fifth, increase the maximum grant awards to local 
governments and not-for-profit applicants to expand the amount 
of work and magnitude of cleanup that each grant awardee can 
accomplish.
    Sixth, increase the CERCLA 128 grants to State Brownfields 
Programs. Since inception of Florida's Brownfields Program, the 
Department of Environmental Protection has been awarded $17.2 
million in section 128(a) grant funds. The awarded moneys have 
allowed DEP to conduct targeted assessment and remediation at 
over 116 of the highest priority sites.
    Speaking from personal experience as a section 128(a) grant 
recipient, these grants are powerful, effective, and catalytic. 
In our situation, Goldstein Kite Environmental partnered with 
DEP to conduct assessment and remediation of chlorinated 
solvents at a former chemical storage and distribution site 
that impacted a public school.
    Our investment in this ostensibly contaminated site, and 
DEP and EPA's co-investment with $400,000 in section 128(a) 
grant funds, is facilitating construction of 515 units of 
affordable housing and a $217 million capital expenditure in 
the Overtown neighborhood of Miami by one of the largest 
builders in the country.
    A final recommendation. PFAS is commonly referred to as 
``the forever chemical.'' It is really ``the everywhere 
chemical,'' and it is having a monumental impact on brownfields 
development where the listing of PFAS as a CERCLA hazardous 
substance raises the specter of possible EPA-led cleanups under 
the National Contingency Plan over decades at a great expense.
    Congress should consider a statutory exemption to CERCLA 
where a party has voluntarily entered into a brownfield cleanup 
agreement with a State agency to remediate PFAS contamination 
under State law. The exemption would provide immunity from 
CERCLA cost recovery and contribution claims, a hold on NPL 
status, immunity from RCRA citizen suits, and express immunity 
from lenders.
    Thank you so much for this opportunity to present my 
comments.
    [Mr. Goldstein's prepared statement follows:]

                                 
Prepared Statement of Michael R. Goldstein, Esq., Managing Partner, The 
                 Goldstein Environmental Law Firm, P.A.
    Good morning, Chairman Collins, Ranking Member Wilson, and Members 
of the Committee. My name is Michael Goldstein. I'm the Managing 
Partner of The Goldstein Environmental Law Firm, a principal of 
Goldstein Kite Environmental, a past president of the Florida 
Brownfields Association, and past Chair of the National Brownfields 
Coalition's Public Policy and Redevelopment Incentives Committee.
    It is a distinct honor, and career highlight, to participate in 
this hearing and to help our Country's elected officials improve on 
what has been the most important, impactful, and results-producing 
federal program in my 33 years of practice. While Congress, U.S. EPA, 
and every state government in the nation, including the great state of 
Florida, have supported brownfields work since the mid-1990s, the 
hundreds of thousands of brownfields across the country require 
additional resources to tackle. And so do Superfund sites, let's not 
forget about those either. They, too, present tremendous opportunities 
for redevelopment. EPA's track record in both arenas--brownfield 
redevelopment and Superfund redevelopment--is long and distinguished.
    My remarks today are informed by over three decades of assisting 
local governments, neighborhood groups, developers, farmers, growers, 
manufacturers, energy companies, schools and school systems, 
entrepreneurs, investors, lenders, and capital providers navigate the 
complexities, risks, regulations, and expenses of cleaning up, 
redeveloping, repurposing, and reusing contaminated land--from 
Brownfields to Superfund Sites to all points in between. I also invest 
in them personally and, accordingly, have a 360 degree view of what 
aspects of the federal brownfields program have worked well and where 
opportunities remain to overcome persistent challenges. Unlike my 
fellow witnesses, all of whom are deeply credentialed, experienced, and 
accomplished and who present necessary perspectives, the view I am 
sharing today is a private sector view and one that is purposefully 
intended to recommend to this Committee the specific steps Congress can 
take during reauthorization to move many billions of additional dollars 
in private capital off the sidelines and reverse decades of 
disinvestment and despair. The private sector wants to do more--much 
more--but we need more help from Congress.
    First, though, I would like to speak to Florida's Brownfields 
Program, which was an early leader nationally in encouraging, investing 
in, and responsibly managing environmental redevelopment. Florida's 
Brownfield Program was enacted on July 1, 1997, and in the ensuing 28 
years has sparked the creation of approximately 90,000 projected direct 
and indirect jobs and the projected investment of over $3.188 billion 
in capital investment in designated brownfield areas. Through February 
20, 2025, local governments, upon their own initiative or at the 
request of developers or other applicants, have designated 613 
Brownfield Areas totaling 292,865.41acres. Over 530 voluntary cleanup 
agreements have been executed with the Florida Department of 
Environmental Protection or one of their amazing local partners, Miami-
Dade County DERM, Broward County RED, and Hillsborough County EPC. Over 
235 brownfield sites have completed cleanup since inception of the 
program. Florida has accomplished this outstanding result with a mix of 
economic incentives, including tax credits and tax refunds, a loan 
guarantee fund, liability protection at the state level, and a 
streamlined processing for regulatory review and approvals with lots of 
love and care from specially appointed brownfield coordinators at the 
state and local level. The Florida model has resulted in a broad 
portfolio of cleaned up and reused sites but, in my experience, there 
has been a particular level of success in the category of affordable 
and workforce housing. Florida has put its thumb on the scale, and 
appropriately so, for builders of this segment of the market, which is 
in crisis. I know that's true nationwide. And it's with this in my mind 
that many of the following recommendations are made. I'm confident, 
based on the Florida experience, that, if implemented, they will 
accelerate construction of affordable housing across the country by 
giving developers and communities the financial and regulatory tools 
needed to safely and responsible cleanup and repurpose a sad, vast 
landscape of abandoned, underutilized contaminated properties.
    On the financial side, I recommend three new funding opportunities:
    First, as part of a forthcoming tax bill, renew the Federal 
Brownfield Tax Incentive, which was first passed in 1997 to allow 
parties who voluntarily investigated and remediated contaminated 
properties to deduct all cleanup costs on their federal income tax 
return in the year they spent the money on cleanup. By allowing for 
expensing rather than requiring remediation deductions to be spread out 
over ten years, the tax incentive was a powerful driver of private 
investment in environmental redevelopment. Before it expired in 2012, 
this deduction was used more than 625 times in more than 40 states. 
There is already bipartisan support for the restoration of this 
incentive. The Brownfields Redevelopment Tax Incentive Reauthorization 
Act of 2025, H.R. 815, was recently reintroduced by Rep. Sherrill (D-
NJ) and Rep. Turner (R-OH).
    Second, I recommend the creation of a Brownfields Loan Guarantee 
Program. This program would combine aspects of the DOE Loan Guarantee 
Program with the New Markets Tax Credits Program to leverage many 
billions of private sector dollars for early stage, bridge financing of 
redevelopment projects that are considered too risky for conventional 
lenders. In my professional experience, there are countless projects 
that fail in the concept stage because they are caught in an unwinnable 
position--they're not loan-worthy until the environmental risks are 
cleared but the environmental risks can't be cleared until loan funding 
becomes available.
    Third, as I noted earlier in my testimony, the brownfields model is 
a proven vehicle to incentivize and expand affordable housing. Congress 
has many tools at its disposal to improve the model. To that end, we 
would like to see:
      an increase of the 4% and 9% Low Income Housing Tax 
Credit under Sec.  42 of the IRS Code to 6% and 12% for affordable 
housing built on brownfield sites;
      a stepped-up basis under Sec.  42 of the IRS Code of 
between 130% to 150% for affordable housing built on brownfield sites; 
and
      a new, one-time LIHTC in the amount of 80% of cost of the 
land acquisition and demolition to develop affordable housing built on 
brownfields.

    As Congress seeks to reauthorize the federal brownfields program, 
there are a handful of other key priorities to consider:
      Meaningfully increase resources and ensure robust 
staffing at EPA offices. Increasing resources allows what has been a 
universally recognized and lauded program of success to reach more 
communities and address more contaminated sites. Robust staffing at EPA 
program offices and regional offices that keeps projects moving through 
the remediation process. Delays cost time and money, and adequate 
staffing helps improve timelines and makes more projects possible.

      Increase maximum grant awards to local government and 
non-profit applicants to expand the amount of work that each grant 
award can be used to complete. Many sites require multiple streams of 
financing to complete remediation, which slows down the timeline for 
redevelopment. Higher maximum funding levels would allow for faster 
remediation, and the faster sites can be closed out, the quicker 
redevelopment can occur, sites can be made safer, more jobs can be 
created, including in the construction sector, and more tax revenues 
can be raised increasing services. It's a virtuous circle. Specific 
grant funding recommendations consist of the following:
      +  $500,000 for the Community Wide Assessment Grant
      +  $1.5 million for the Coalition Assessment Grant
      +  $1 million for the Brownfields Cleanup Revolving Loan Fund 
Grant
      +  $1.5 million for the Multipurpose Grant
      +  Assessment and Remediation Grants at increasing tiers from 
$500,000 to $10 million

      Vastly increase the CERCLA 128(a) grants to state 
brownfield programs. Since the inception of Florida's Brownfields 
Program in 1977, the Department of Environmental Protection has been 
awarded $17.2 million in 128(a) grant funds. The awarded monies have 
allowed the Department to continue to build and enhance the Brownfields 
response program capabilities, as well as to conduct target assessment 
and remediation work at over 116 sites. Speaking from personal 
experience as a 128(a) grant recipient, these grants are powerful, 
effective, and catalytic. In our situation, Goldstein Kite 
Environmental partnered with FDEP to assess and conduct assessment and 
remediation of chlorinated solvents contaminated soil and groundwater 
at a former chemical storage and distribution site that had migrated 
offsite and impacted a public school. Our investment in this risky 
site, and FDEP and EPA's co-investment with $443,648.09 in 128(a) grant 
funds, is facilitating construction of 515 units of affordable housing 
and a $217 million capital expenditure in the southwest Overtown 
neighborhood of Miami by one of the largest builders in the country, 
Richman Group. Your state brownfields agencies know where the greatest 
needs are and how to get the greatest bang for the buck for the 
American people. They should be entrusted with more resources to do so.

      Increasing flexibility for program users. Eliminating the 
match requirement for these grants, expanding allowable expenses to 
include demolition and environmental insurance, and for the first time 
ever making all such grants available to developers of affordable and 
workforce housing. That would be a game changer.

    And two final recommendations today to contribute to the 
deliberations in Congress on how to address the seemingly intractable 
scourge of PFAS in the country's groundwater, drinking water, surface 
water, soils, sediments, and air. PFAS is commonly referred to as the 
forever chemical. It's really the everywhere chemical, and it's having 
a monumental impact on brownfields development where the listing of 
PFAS as a CERCLA hazardous substance raises the specter of possible EPA 
led cleanups under the National Contingency Plan over decades at great 
expense.
    So, first, I would like to recommend that Congress consider a 
statutory exemption to CERCLA where a party has voluntarily entered 
into a brownfield cleanup agreement with a state agency. Such an 
exemption could provide the assurances described below and, in doing 
so, reduce the anxiety level that developers, investors, local 
governments, and community stakeholders might otherwise have when 
considering the voluntary acquisition, cleanup and redevelopment of a 
PFAS impacted site:
    (i)  immunity from cost recovery claims under CERCLA;
    (ii)  immunity from contribution claims under CERCLA;
    (iii)  a hold on NPL status for sites being cleaned up under a 
state brownfields program;
    (iv)  immunity from citizen suits under RCRA; and
    (v)  and express immunity for lenders who hold indicia of ownership 
in, or have foreclosed on, a PFAS impacted facility.

    Second, Congress should direct EPA to expand its strategic roadmap, 
which is founded on key goals and objectives--Research, Restrict, and 
Remediate--by adding a fourth key goal--Redevelop. Objectives within 
this goal could consist of the following:
      engaging brownfields stakeholders on redevelopment-
focused enforcement discretion policies;
      brownfields planning, assessment, remediation, and job 
creation and training grants specifically targeting PFAS impaired 
sites;
      administrative initiatives that further defer federal 
enforcement authority to state environmental officials where 
responsible parties have entered into binding, enforceable voluntary 
cleanup agreements; and
      cross-agency collaboration to encourage other federal 
brownfield partners to allocate human and financial resources to 
support cleanup and redevelopment of PFAS impaired sites, such as the 
Department of Energy, Department of Housing and Urban Development, 
Department of Transportation, Department of Defense, and the Economic 
Development Administration.

    Thank you for your consideration of these remarks, and I look 
forward to responding to any questions.

    Mr. Collins. Thank you.
    And thank you all for providing your testimony. We will now 
turn to questions for the panel. I recognize myself for 5 
minutes for questions.
    I kind of like to give you an idea of the way I look at 
things, especially from a chairman's standpoint. And the way I 
look at it, in November, the American people spoke loud and 
clear. First of all, they need to save taxpayer dollars.
    The second thing that we need to do up here, especially 
from a chairman's standpoint, is make sure that the Federal 
Government is very productive and efficient. And if we can do 
that, then we will save taxpayer money.
    You all had testimony, and as you were giving your 
testimony, I started changing my questions as each one of you 
went through. So some of this may be a little choppy.
    But I want to make sure that whatever we do, if you think 
of it, and what can we do to be more efficient, how do we save 
money, and in this case, when we make an investment, what is 
the return on the dollar for that investment, because a lot of 
this I look at as an investment instead of just grant money.
    So, Mr. Larson, I think this may be best for you. If it is 
not, if somebody else wants to weigh in or not. The IIJA, $1.5 
billion extra over 5 years, over the normal allocation, if I 
have got that right--and if I am wrong, correct me--how was 
that doled out among the States? Was that on a first come, 
first served basis, large States got this, small States--or how 
did that work?
    Mr. Larson. So, thank you for the question. So, the IIJA 
funding was divided. Of that total $1.5 billion, $1.2 billion 
was allocated for the section 104 grants--the 104(k) grants, or 
the competitive grants.
    So, those grants were administered in the same/similar 
fashion as in the similar criteria that EPA uses toward their 
annual competitive grants. So, that's the grants that go to 
eligible applicants through the normal process or that normal--
--
    Mr. Collins [interrupting]. So, that money goes to the 
States. So----
    Mr. Larson [interrupting]. That is the money that goes 
directly to the applicants.
    Mr. Collins. Okay. So who actually primarily provides the 
funding? Is it local, State, Fed, what?
    Mr. Larson. So, there's the competitive grants, which are 
appropriated to EPA, and the EPA administers that on a 
competitive basis. So, there is a collection of eligible 
entities all over the country that will put in various grant 
applications for those grants.
    And so, EPA will look at all the grant applications that 
will come in, and based upon the criteria that is in statute, 
they have this ranking prioritization process. And as part of 
that, they will administer those grants to those eligible 
entities.
    Mr. Collins. Yes, I am just trying to figure out, if we 
doubled the money essentially over 5 years, and I hear it 
consistent that it is not funded at the level--and of course, 
in my opening statement, I said just throwing money at a 
problem is not going to solve the problem. We have always 
figured that out. There is usually something else in there.
    And, Honorable Wilbur, you said that--I think it was you. 
Who is it that said ``burdensome reporting''?
    Mr. Wilbur. Didn't hear you on that.
    Mr. Collins. That said it was--burdensome reporting was one 
of the problems.
    Mr. Wilbur. Yes. So----
    Mr. Collins [interrupting]. Is that on the Fed or the State 
level or the local level? Where is that burdensome reporting?
    Mr. Wilbur. We had that for the brownfields assessment 
program that we had. That came from the Feds. And what it is, 
is we just have a small staff. I mean, we have a small county 
with under 1,000 employees, and we are actually, I would say, 
probably one of the larger rural counties, if you will.
    Mr. Collins. Yes.
    Mr. Wilbur. And as you get smaller and smaller, there is 
less staff to be able to put the time to devote to this.
    Mr. Collins. And to me, I think that gets to the crux of 
the problem--of a lot of the problems we hear up here, 
especially with rural counties. A lot of my district is very 
rural. They don't have stacks of accountants and lawyers 
sitting around to apply for grants. They have to go out and pay 
for the grant, which costs them, I don't know, 30, 40 percent 
of the money, whatever they can get away with.
    And so I have always been a bigger proponent of, we just 
block grant money and get out of the way, and that is what I as 
getting at. Is it a Federal issue on what--because a lot of 
times, when the Feds give out money, they've got strings 
attached. A lot of times they are around your neck.
    So, if that is the case, then is there an issue with the 
Feds getting in the way?
    Mr. Wilbur. If I may, I would say that I think we have 
proven it in Oswego County over the two rounds of grants that 
we received, $900,000. Out of those two particular parcels that 
I mentioned, that is a $30 million investment of basically 
wasteland on an environmental protected area, meaning it was on 
a river, in our downtown area is where it was at.
    Mr. Collins. Right. And I want to bring that up real quick. 
So that $30 million investment that the Fed--that taxpayers 
made, what was the return on the dollar taxwise?
    Mr. Wilbur. Let me just correct that. That wasn't a $30 
million taxpayer investment.
    Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Wilbur. That was a private investment.
    Mr. Collins. Okay.
    Mr. Wilbur. So we used the $900,000 to leverage the $30 
million investment from private.
    Mr. Collins. Okay. But there again--okay. So the $900,000. 
What was the tax advantage--what did it do to generate 
taxpayer--did you all look at that, how much more taxes it 
generates? Obviously, it wasn't doing much of anything when it 
was a brownfield.
    Mr. Wilbur. Well, I don't have the exact figures on what 
those buildings are assessed at right now, but we are 
definitely--they are back on the tax rolls. Those properties 
are----
    Mr. Collins [interposing]. Yes.
    Mr. Wilbur [continuing]. Generating thousands in tax 
revenue.
    Mr. Collins. Yes. And that is the type of stories I like to 
hear, is if we make an investment somehow, how long does it 
take for us to get our return, and what has our return been. 
Because anytime we can generate more taxpayers out there, then 
it generates revenue to replace what we spent out.
    All right. I am out of time. I yield back.
    The Chair now recognizes Ms. Wilson for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Wilson of Florida. Ms. Shook, last Friday, the 
Environmental Council of the States wrote a letter to EPA 
Administrator Zeldin, that I would ask unanimous consent to 
enter into the record. Enter into the record.
    Mr. Collins. Without objection, so ordered.
    [The information follows:]

                                 
Letter of May 3, 2025, from the Environmental Council of the States to 
 Hon. Lee Zeldin, Administrator, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, 
          Submitted for the Record by Hon. Frederica S. Wilson
                                                       May 3, 2025.
The Honorable Lee Zeldin,
Administrator,
U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, 1200 Pennsylvania Ave NW, WJC 
        Building North/South Room: 1448K, Washington, DC 20460.
    Dear Administrator Zeldin,
    Yesterday, the Office of Management of Budget (OMB) sent the White 
House recommendations for discretionary funding to the United States 
Senate for fiscal year (FY) 2026. In response, the Environmental 
Council of the States (ECOS) Officers urgently request an in-person 
meeting with you to discuss the fiscal implications of the FY2026 
recommendations for states.
    As we understand the recommendation, the White House recommended 
elimination or cuts to categorical grant programs that will devastate 
economic development, critical infrastructure, and environmental 
protections across the nation.
    States carry out more than 90% of the nation's federal 
environmental programs in communities around the United States, and 
states, state legislatures, and the business community depend on 
Congress to fund our efforts through grants and partnerships with the 
U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Such dramatic budget cuts 
to states will incapacitate state environmental programs while creating 
significant uncertainty for state legislatures and businesses across 
the United States. Further, the proposal to dramatically shrink the 
Clean Water and Drinking Water State Revolving Funds will also hurt the 
heretofore unified effort to address the nation's water infrastructure 
needs, which is necessary not only to protect human health and the 
environment, but also to grow the economy.
    If Congress were to adopt the White House recommendation for 
discretionary spending, states may be required to terminate primacy, 
delegation, or authorization agreements and return full program 
implementation to EPA. This would overwhelm EPA and have detrimental 
impacts to economic development. In addition, state primacy, 
delegation, or authorizations were approved by EPA and published in the 
Federal Register following public notice and comment. Such primacy, 
delegation, or authorization agreements are predicated on commitments 
that include a federal and state cost share. A reduction or elimination 
of the federal cost share will create implementation issues resulting 
in legal liabilities that may contribute to a state's decision to 
return a program to EPA for implementation within a state.
    Pursuant to principles of cooperative federalism, EPA and states 
working in partnership through regular discussions would greatly 
benefit our organizations and we stand ready to have such discussions.
    Thank you.
                                              James Kenney,
                 New Mexico Environment Department, ECOS President.
                                               Chris Wells,
        Mississippi Department of Environmental Quality, ECOS Vice 
                                                         President.
                                               Leah Feldon,
        Oregon Department of Environmental Quality, ECOS Secretary-
                                                         Treasurer.
                                                Myra Reece,
    South Carolina Department of Environmental Services, ECOS Past 
                                                         President.

cc:
Region 1, Mark Sanborn.
Region 2, Mike Martucci.
Region 3, Amy Van Blarcom-Lackey.
Region 4, Kevin McOmber.
Region 5, Anne Vogel.
Region 6, Scott Mason.
Region 7, Jim Macy.
Region 8, Cyrus Western.
Region 9, Josh Cook.
Region 10, Emma Pokon.
Assistant Deputy Administrator, Travis Voyles.
Associate Administrator, Sarah Talmage.
    Ms. Wilson of Florida. In this letter, the executive board 
of State environmental leaders expressed deep concern with the 
President's budget proposal to eliminate or drastically cut 
most categorical grant programs within the Agency, including 
the Clean Water State Revolving Trust.
    The States warned that these cuts would hurt efforts to 
reinvest in our Nation's infrastructure, damage our public and 
environmental health, and threaten our economy.
    While EPA's Brownfields Program was not specifically 
mentioned in the President's budget, it is conceivable that 
funding for this program is equally as targeted by the 
administration for reduction or elimination.
    Ms. Shook and then Mr. Goldstein, what would be the 
consequences for the State of Ohio and the State of Florida if 
all EPA brownfields grant funding were eliminated?
    Ms. Shook.
    Ms. Shook. Thank you----
    Mr. Goldstein [interrupting]. Thank you, Congresswoman 
Wilson, for the question.
    In many instances--in most instances, EPA brownfields 
funding is existential. Without that seed money, thousands of 
environmental redevelopment and reuse projects all across the 
country would come to a grinding halt, and those that are in 
the planning process wouldn't even get out of the gate.
    These are projects that help to accelerate remediation to 
quickly reduce public health risks that result in a tremendous 
amount of job creation, economic revitalization, and additional 
tax revenues to local governments that can then provide more 
services and also increase redevelopment in the surrounding 
area. They turn engines of disinvestment into productive 
engines of investment. And without continued funding, even 
expanded funding through EPA, all of that work would come to a 
halt.
    Ms. Wilson of Florida. Ms. Shook.
    Ms. Shook. I would agree with Mr. Goldstein. It would 
negatively impact almost every community in Ohio. Our State 
funding supports a lot of our smallest and most rural 
communities because they have the least capacity to hold their 
own grants, whereas our larger communities use this as a 
catalyst to get other Federal funds, other State dollars--Ohio 
has a robust cleanup program themselves--to partner for 
matching dollars for those funds, they use Federal funds, and 
to incite additional private investment.
    It is much easier. There is plenty of green space in Ohio 
for companies to come in and to keep those investments in our 
communities where the infrastructure already exists and to 
preserve our farmland. It is nice to have a robust Brownfields 
Program to keep that development in our more populated areas.
    Thank you.
    Ms. Wilson of Florida. Thank you.
    Mr. Goldstein, our home county, Miami-Dade, has highlighted 
the successes it has seen with the Brownfields Program. They 
talked about the efforts at Thermo Fisher and how the 
brownfield designation helped create new jobs. They also spoke 
about the Poinciana Industrial Center effort and how a 
brownfield pilot helped address remediation needs in the 
community.
    Can you discuss the importance of continued support for the 
Brownfields Program and how this funding will help address 
brownfield sites like the corner of Northwest 37th Avenue and 
Northwest 183rd Street in Miami Gardens?
    Mr. Goldstein. Yes, Ranking Member Wilson. That part of 
Miami-Dade County has long been subject to disinvestment, 
economic blight, and, unfortunately, historically civil unrest, 
related to the lack of economic opportunity.
    A significant component of that is driven by the 
environmental uncertainty and risk associated with a long 
history of industrial activities like pesticide distribution 
plants that have left a significant amount of soil and 
groundwater contamination that has, candidly, provided a 
tremendous disincentive to lenders and other investors to 
imagine what that area could be, which is surrounded by working 
families who love their community and want an opportunity to 
raise their families there and have good jobs.
    With EPA's investment and the continued oversight of the 
Florida Department of Environmental Protection and the Miami-
Dade County Department of Environmental Resources Management, 
utilizing Federal resources, there is an opportunity for 
developers to come in, create jobs, create affordable housing, 
and turn that part of the community into a very vital portion 
of Miami-Dade County that generates a tremendous amount of 
economic activity.
    Ms. Wilson of Florida. Thank you, Mr. Goldstein.
    And thank you, Mr. Chair, for the time.
    Mr. Collins. Yes, ma'am. Sorry I wasn't--I was wanting to--
I should have stopped then.
    If you all get a chance, just please remember to cut your 
mic off. When we had that noise that crept in, somebody--there 
were two mics open. So if you will make sure it is off if you 
are not talking, we won't have that.
    The Chair now recognizes the vice chair of the 
subcommittee, Mr. Taylor from Ohio, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Taylor. Thank you, Chairman Collins and Ranking Member 
Wilson, for holding this hearing today. And thank you to our 
witnesses for being here to share their insight and for the 
sacrifices you made to be here.
    I want to especially welcome Ms. Shook who is here to talk 
about how Ohio has succeeded in turning contaminated land into 
residential and economic growth.
    Toxic materials such as asbestos and lead in old buildings 
can cause significant harm to those exposed over long periods 
of time. That is why the Brownfields Program exists, to turn 
older toxic sites into productive and beneficial areas in the 
community.
    In southern Ohio, the main brownfield sites include 
schools, children's homes, and other public buildings. It 
should be obvious that small rural communities face massive 
challenges when addressing brownfield sites in their region, 
such as constrained local budgets, fewer people available to 
manage brownfield projects, and limited access to technical 
expertise.
    Ms. Shook, can you elaborate on how the Ohio EPA has worked 
with rural communities to alleviate these challenges?
    Ms. Shook. Thank you. The State's program works 
significantly with our smaller and more rural communities. As I 
said earlier, they have less capacity to hold their own grants 
and to be competitive in the 104(k) competitive rounds of 
grants.
    So we are often sort of the front door for them to the 
brownfields space. They can use our funding for planning 
purposes, as well as the initial assessments, and we can work 
with them, and do work with them, very closely to help prepare 
them to potentially apply for either another State grant or a 
Federal grant as they get ready.
    So we have done everything from helping them develop their 
own brownfield inventories, to doing phase 1 environmental 
assessments for them, to helping set up community meetings and 
do community surveys on what they would like areas to look like 
after a brownfield redevelopment is completed.
    So that is a variety of ways we work with them, but they 
are a primary customer of ours.
    Mr. Taylor. Got you. Is there more that Congress could do 
to remove barriers that create these challenges for rural 
areas?
    Ms. Shook. Yes. So the competition process is very 
competitive. We have heard numbers around only about 30 percent 
of applicants get approved for their grants. So finding ways to 
provide more funds to more communities would make it easier for 
them to hold.
    Our regional brownfield staff that manage those assessment 
grants do a very nice job of helping those communities follow 
all the regulations and reporting requirements, as well as they 
assist us in making sure we are aware of any new requirements 
that we have to meet for our three grants that we hold.
    So we have a great working relationship with region 5 staff 
that help us with that, but there are always more tools in the 
toolbox for small communities who don't have the staff to hold 
grants, or allowing States to hold larger grants so that we can 
do more work for them, and we bear the responsibility for the 
reporting requirements.
    Mr. Taylor. Thank you. With Congress and President Trump 
vowing to rein in Government spending, it is important that 
Congress evaluates how we fund these existing programs.
    Mr. Goldstein, in your testimony, you highlighted how 
public-private partnerships benefited local communities in 
cleaning up brownfield sites. Can you elaborate on the benefits 
of public-private partnerships and how that speeds up 
brownfield sites being cleaned up?
    Mr. Goldstein. Absolutely. Many times--most times, local 
governments and local government entities own contaminated 
assets: old landfills, public utility facilities, wastewater 
treatment plants. They are sitting on these assets. They cost a 
tremendous amount of money to maintain, and the funds aren't 
there to clean them up and repurpose them.
    And so what they do is they reach out to the private sector 
for a public-private partnership opportunity. The private 
entities are beneficiaries of the EPA grants that come in, but 
those dollars, while important, aren't always directly 
available to the private-sector entities, and frequently, they 
are not enough to complete the cleanup and put the site on a 
level playing field with greenfield sites.
    So, what would be most important is to, A, expand the grant 
opportunities in terms of the dollars that are available. That 
is number one.
    Number two, make them available directly to the private 
sector who are operating in areas that the Government wants to 
see, like public-private partnerships, like affordable housing. 
That is number two.
    And number three, utilize some of the other tools that 
Congress has available to it to increase the likelihood of 
success of public-private partnerships, like creating more 
liability exemption opportunities, for example, with respect to 
PFAS, or providing this Federal income tax deduction to 
private-sector entities which results in more dollars that can 
go into the redevelopment side.
    Mr. Taylor. Thank you.
    And thank all of you for being here today.
    And, Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Collins. The Chair now recognizes the ranking member of 
the full committee, Mr. Larsen, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Larsen of Washington. Mr. Chair, I am good with no 
questions.
    Mr. Collins. Sir?
    Mr. Larsen of Washington. I am good with no questions.
    Mr. Collins. Oh, okay.
    Mr. Larsen of Washington. Move on to the next Democrat.
    Mr. Collins. The Chair now recognizes the gentlewoman from 
Ohio, Mrs. Sykes, for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. Sykes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you, Ranking 
Member, for yielding your time for me to ask questions.
    It is certainly Ohio week in the Transportation and 
Infrastructure Committee. So good to see you, Ms. Shook. Thank 
you for being here today. And thank you to the chair and 
ranking member for holding this hearing.
    Ohio has long been a leader in industrialization for 
generations, and for many folks in my district, that has meant 
investment in our communities and good-paying jobs. And my 
hometown Akron is known as--or may be formerly known as the 
rubber capital of the world.
    But, unfortunately, it has also left our State and my 
district with far too many derelict and dangerous sites, 
especially in the absence of environmental regulations, and 
industries have shifted over the years.
    Following some of these, we have been fortunate to have the 
identification and support around brownfield sites and the 
properties' damage to the environment, and dangerous for 
families, and clearly unsuitable for business, which makes some 
of these properties unavailable for productive use.
    There are more than 4,200 brownfield properties across the 
State of Ohio, and every single one of our 88 counties have at 
least 1 brownfield property. And my district is no exception. 
There are 110 properties that have been identified as 
brownfield sites in Ohio's 13th District alone.
    Of these sites, one of them is the Landmark Building in 
Akron, Ohio. It is right downtown. Actually, our district 
office is almost directly across the street from it. It was a 
significant part of our downtown skyline, previously the home 
to Akron Savings and Loan, but this building has been 
abandoned. But in 2011, the Department of Development received 
a brownfield cleanup grant from the EPA and was able to 
leverage some funding. And now fast-forward to 2025, it is a 
productive property, Akron's new Bowery District development 
and home to apartment buildings, restaurants, and productive 
land use, which is exactly what we want these programs to do.
    Additionally, Rolling Acres Mall, if you have ever seen 
mall wastelands, Rolling Acres is one of those. It is now an 
Amazon distribution site. Again, another way in which we have 
been able to use brownfield development to encourage job growth 
and development and economic opportunity in our communities.
    Ms. Shook, in your testimony, you talked about you have 
identified and worked with just under 100 communities and 
brownfield sites across the State. I just mentioned that I have 
110 in my district alone, so, obviously, that means that there 
is a lot of demand and not enough support around it.
    But the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law did provide a much 
needed boost for remediating some of these sites. So if you 
could talk a little bit more about what this investment and 
increased investment could do across the State of Ohio, 
specifically, and how this can increase and encourage economic 
development and productive land use in our State.
    Ms. Shook. Thank you. Yes, the standard allocation that we 
were getting prior to the IIJA Act, we were able to complete 
about 20 assessments per year, in addition to our planning 
activities and the technical assistance and grant-funded 
technical assistance we were providing throughout the cleanup 
process.
    With the additional funding we received, we were able to go 
up to 145 assessments over those grants, so that is a 
significant increase in actual assessment and some cleanup work 
done in our communities. And it prepared them to apply for full 
cleanup grants from both our State program and the Federal 
program.
    We have both the staff and the contractors available to do 
more work. It is only a matter of how many dollars we get per 
year. Our standard allocation has been dropping slightly every 
year as more entities have been applying, and it was a great 
benefit to the State.
    The State program is very robust. There is about $125 
million in State cleanup dollars awarded the last 4 years, I 
believe, and it is oversubscribed every year. So there is a 
significant need in the State, and our program is small in 
comparison--the State EPA Brownfields Program is small in 
comparison to our State development's Brownfields Program. But 
we are there to help all the communities that need that extra 
assistance, the ones that need to find a first step, need the 
roadmap that helps them match dollar for dollar. And that is 
where our program really shines is being kind of the matching 
dollars for other programs.
    Mrs. Sykes. Well, thank you very much for that.
    And if I can help lift up some of the testimony I have 
heard from all of you, this is not just about the environment 
and cleaning up sites, which is very important, but this is 
about economic development, putting people to work, making sure 
that we are using our land productively, and giving people an 
opportunity throughout our country, and particularly in Ohio's 
13th and across the State. So thank you very much for your 
testimony.
    Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    Mr. Collins. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Knott for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Knott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To all the witnesses, 
thank you all for your testimony.
    Mr. Larson, I want to start with you. In regards to your 
experience and observations, what is the greatest impediment to 
having an efficient, I would say, remediation program for some 
of these environmentally sensitive sites in the Brownfields 
Program? Is it local bureaucracy, is it local permitting, is it 
Federal bureaucracy, is it funding? If there is one thing you 
could point to, what would that be?
    Mr. Larson. So, regarding the cleanup duration or 
complexities at any given site, it is going to be highly 
dependent upon site-specific circumstances.
    Mr. Knott. Sure.
    Mr. Larson. So, I would say it is going to be very 
challenging to point to a single factor, whereas there may be 
multiple factors, including the ones that you have listed, even 
from like a technical or scientific standpoint.
    Many of these properties, the conditions may be unknown----
    Mr. Knott [interposing]. Yes.
    Mr. Larson [continuing]. With respect to the environmental 
contamination that may or may not be present. And so as this 
process proceeds of investigating the contamination, 
investigating the site, if it turns out to be the contamination 
presents more of a risk than was originally envisioned, that 
could present more complications with respect to both the 
cleanup and what could be suitable reuses for the site. So, 
there are various factors even as the process proceeds that can 
complicate this.
    Mr. Knott. Right. I mean, one of the concerns that I am 
bringing to the table is, from North Carolina, there is a $2-
per-ton municipal waste disposal fee that really is aimed at 
cleaning up these--they are called preregulatory landfills. I 
don't know if you are familiar with that term.
    Mr. Goldstein, you are shaking your head. But, basically, 
it is a period of time where landfills were utilized and 
anything went in there, and many of them have been deemed 
hazardous. And the North Carolina Department of Environmental 
Quality monitors these landfills, but I think there are 700 of 
them, but only 1 has been cleaned up or 2 have been cleaned up 
in the last 20 years, roughly. And that is a trend that I have 
heard about throughout the country, that cleaning these up, 
putting them back into the marketplace is a real problem.
    Mr. Goldstein, I would defer to you in terms of, if there 
is a way that we can efficiently identify, manage, and clean up 
these, or cap them, remediate, however you want to phrase it, 
is there a model that you have seen at a local and State level 
that is efficient and provides the necessary certainty to move 
these quickly?
    Mr. Goldstein. Thank you, Representative Knott. That is a 
great question. And I want to invoke a suggestion that the 
chairman made, the concept of rethinking, reenvisioning the 
grant program to provide community block grants, like community 
block grants to State government so State governments can get 
the money to where it needs to go more quickly.
    If there is a single limiting factor that makes these 
projects less efficient than they need to be, it is time. And 
the time associated with waiting for the grant window to open 
and to prepare and submit a grant application on a competitive 
basis and then get the money, that time is too long. There is 
too much delay.
    If we were to have that money go to the States and have the 
State agencies allocate those dollars to where they are needed, 
where the greatest need is, those dollars would get to the 
communities more quickly and they would be spent more 
efficiently with less oversight and administrative bureaucracy.
    Mr. Knott. Is there a way to incentivize local and State 
government to move on these sites? Because, for instance, in 
North Carolina, a lot of county and State operators are the 
ones who polluted the sites. And so in some ways they are not 
incentivized to, whether it is undertake cleanup costs or to 
remediate, because that could expose them to further liability, 
but is there a way to really expedite this process using the 
Federal leverage at hand? I don't know if that makes sense or 
not.
    Mr. Goldstein. It absolutely makes sense. We have done 
something like that in the State of Florida, which I know 
Ranking Member Wilson is aware of. In Florida, recently, we 
passed a law that essentially gives grace to local government 
entities that may have caused contamination to a site, provided 
that they bring it into productive reuse quickly and promptly 
and that they find a public-private partnership opportunity to 
invest private-sector dollars in the cleanup. That gives them, 
as I mentioned, grace and a runway without exposure to 
liability under the State's CERCLA analog.
    Mr. Knott. Do you think that is replicable federally?
    Mr. Goldstein. Absolutely, it could be replicable on the 
Federal level. There could be an exemption under CERCLA for 
exposure to costs under, for example, PFAS that arise out of 
PFAS contamination, provided that the local government finds a 
private-sector party to invest in redevelopment.
    Mr. Knott. Thank you, sir.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Collins. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Garamendi for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Garamendi. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    This program is a very good one. The recommendations that 
have been made are very helpful and useful, and hopefully, we 
will put forth a reauthorization this year. I think we have 
done it at least once in the past 4 years, and perhaps we will 
be successful this year on a reauthorization. The 
recommendations that have been made by the witnesses are all 
good, and so as we write this legislation, good for us.
    However, I have a problem. No. We have a problem. All of 
this runs through the EPA. And the President put forth a budget 
proposal, which I would hope the Congress of the United States, 
Senate and House, would thoroughly and completely reject, but 
nonetheless, his proposal is to reduce the EPA budget to its 
lowest level, which happened to be its first budget. Now, just 
how is that going to work?
    This committee has a very serious responsibility. This 
program, and the CERCLA program also, are critically important 
to our communities, to the health of the communities around it, 
and in some cases, to the larger regional areas. However, 
unless we have the courage--we have the courage to push back on 
what the administration is proposing, this is an interesting 
exercise, and we will undoubtedly write a good reauthorization 
bill, and it will be of no consequence whatsoever.
    Now, I wish all the committee members were here, and when I 
talk to them individually, I am going to say, yes, it is nice, 
we will do our work as we did before, we have a model, and we 
will use that, and we will update it, given the suggestions of 
the witnesses. It will be an interesting exercise of no purpose 
whatsoever if the administration has its way to gut the EPA. 
So, I would hope all of us would keep this in mind while we 
work through this. Good for us.
    However, unless we are willing to fight the fight to fund 
the EPA at a level that would allow these programs and others 
to proceed, I guess we will feel good about the work we have 
done, but it will have no consequence, no utility, and, 
actually, cause severe problems throughout the United States as 
we attempt to deal with this particular set of issues and 
dozens of others.
    So, the fight is not here. The fight is on the proposals 
being made by the administration to gut the EPA and to reduce 
its funding to a level that is equal to what it was on its very 
first day of existence.
    Now, I happen to support the Brownfields Program. It is 
useful. We have in the city of Vallejo a $600,000 EPA grant for 
Mare Island, the first and oldest naval base on the west coast, 
and you can kind of imagine the kind of contamination that has 
existed there over the last century and a half. So, that is 
useful in making progress. It also allows for the downtown 
waterfront.
    The city of San Pablo, another one, a rail yard that dates 
back to the 1800s. Yes, there is a bit of a problem there, but 
the cleanup of that will allow the city to bring in housing 
into a historic area that has been--well, all of you know this. 
We all have these; 435 of us have problems, and the Brownfields 
Program helps our districts. So, each of us ought to be not 
only working on the reauthorization legislation and whatever 
changes are appropriate to improve it, but we are going to have 
to fight the big fight. Otherwise, why bother?
    I am going to let it go at that. I thank the witnesses for 
their specific suggestions on how to improve the existing 
authorization which now expired 2\1/2\ years ago. So, we have 
work to do. But I don't want this committee and each and every 
one of us to forget what is the principal battle at hand, and 
that is in fact the existence of the EPA in a meaningful way.
    So, with that, I am going to yield back, Mr. Chairman. And 
I would hope to have your support in helping all of us or 
making all of us aware of the problem that the administration 
is creating with its proposed budget cut for the EPA and work 
with all of us to restore the funding to an appropriate level 
so this program and others can proceed. With that, I yield 
back.
    Mr. Collins. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Burlison for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Goldstein, am I correct in saying you have over three 
decades of experience in helping local communities navigate the 
process of these cleanups of brownfields?
    Mr. Goldstein. Yes, sir, and I feel every single one of 
those days.
    Mr. Burlison. Given that experience, could you walk me 
through the process that a local county or community goes 
through when they are applying for assistance for a brownfield?
    Mr. Goldstein. Sure. The process typically starts with a 
developer or a not-for-profit who, either working on their own 
or with a local government, identifies a site that would make a 
wonderful redevelopment project for whatever their mandate is, 
for whatever their constituents are telling them needs to be 
done.
    They will conduct some due diligence, that typically 
doesn't take a lot of money, to have a consultant perform what 
is called a phase 1 environmental site assessment audit, which 
is a noninvasive study of the history of the site on the 
regulatory status. And more often than not, whether you are in 
a rural area or an urban area, you will identify a legacy of 
chemical contamination, and all of the warning bells will go 
off and the costs will be identified related to cleanup, 
related to third-party liability, related to the incremental 
things that you have to do to safely build on a contaminated 
site. And then people will take a beat and say, well, how are 
we going to pay for all of this.
    And at that point, many projects simply expire because the 
risk is too high and the costs are too uncertain. But in other 
instances where they are aware of the Brownfields Program, they 
work with the local government or a not-for-profit. For-profit 
entities are not eligible for brownfield grants. And they get 
in the queue to receive EPA funding. Sometimes it is for 
assessment. Sometimes it is for assessment and cleanup. 
Sometimes it is for cleanup only.
    In many instances, those grants provide important seed 
money but not enough to complete the job, because more often 
than not, these problems, as mentioned by a number of your 
colleagues, are very complex. They are not problems that can be 
solved with $100,000 or $200,000 or $300,000 or $400,000 in 
grant funding. Sometimes they take millions of dollars in grant 
funding. And sometimes grant funding--all of the money in the 
world wouldn't solve the problem. There need to be more 
liability protection tools, more regulatory tools to expedite 
cleanup, et cetera.
    But from identification of an issue through award of grant 
and the money becoming available, that window can take 9 to 12 
to 18 months, and many projects don't have that time available 
to them.
    Mr. Burlison. Regarding the nonprofits, how does that 
relationship work? Are there just nonprofits that exist that 
this is their mission, they accept these grants, they work the 
process, and then they kind of align with a business?
    Mr. Goldstein. There are a variety of not-for-profits. Some 
are involved in the arts, some are involved in affordable or 
workforce housing, and some are involved in providing urban 
farming opportunities. It really spans the gamut of what not-
for-profits are interested in, and we have seen it all in a 
brownfields context going back to 1995. Many times they can't 
go it alone, they don't have enough money, so they partner with 
local governments and seek these grants.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you.
    Mr. Wilbur, this Congress, this committee plans to consider 
reauthorization of the Brownfields Program. In the 
reauthorization, we will have the opportunity to consider 
whether the funds given to the Brownfields Program have 
achieved their intended purposes of the program.
    In your opinion, have the funds put towards this program 
achieved the intended purposes and the goals of the program?
    Mr. Wilbur. I believe that they have, taking what I have 
seen in my county alone with the investment that was made. We 
definitely have identified and assessed the brownfields that we 
know are there.
    Mr. Burlison. And given the funds that--we are spending 
money, we are stewards of taxpayer dollars, are there examples 
or are there any opportunities where we can make sure that 
those dollars are used to their fullest extent? Are there any 
opportunities that we can make it better?
    Mr. Wilbur. Well----
    Mr. Burlison [interrupting]. Make it more efficient with 
the dollars we have?
    Mr. Wilbur. Well, I would say that the administrative 
aspect of it, the burdensome reporting and all of that has 
definitely been an added chore for most rural counties. They 
have a small staff, like the Chair noted before. I mean, we 
have one county attorney to work on this, and we have one chief 
accountant in the whole county. So, the work is a lot and the 
staff is limited. So, the administrative duties are definitely 
a little burdensome for us.
    Mr. Burlison. Appreciate it. Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Collins. The Chair now recognizes Ms. Norton for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. Norton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I strongly oppose the Trump administration's attack on the 
Environmental Protection Agency. The Agency has suggested it 
will return to staffing levels from the 1980s, and President 
Trump's fiscal year 2026 budget would cut the Agency's budget 
by 55 percent. These cuts to staffing and funding levels are 
grave threats to human health and the environment.
    I support the Brownfields Program. The program is a win-
win-win. It helps protect the environment and human health, and 
spurs economic development.
    Mr. Goldstein, how would reduction in funding for the 
Brownfields Program affect environmental justice efforts?
    Mr. Goldstein. Well, without brown--in Florida, they would 
go away completely, because Florida doesn't have any funding 
for environmental justice directly. The Florida Brownfields 
Redevelopment Act mentions environmental justice, but there has 
never been a funding mechanism.
    I agree with you, Representative, the people at EPA are 
dedicated. They are hard-working. They are exceedingly 
efficient, both in the Brownfields Program, and we haven't 
mentioned it, but the Superfund Redevelopment Program. 
Brownfields and Superfund redevelopment pray in the same pew. 
They are both important objectives and both tremendous 
opportunities for economic revitalization, public health 
protection, and environmental justice.
    If we are going to take money out of the Brownfields 
Program, all of these efforts are, as I mentioned earlier, 
going to come to a grinding halt. But I do want to say this. 
Brownfields has always been bipartisan. It has received a lot 
of bipartisan love. The money that gets allocated by Congress 
to Brownfields goes through EPA but doesn't stay in EPA. It 
goes to the communities where that money is needed and where, 
over the past 35 years, it has made all the difference in the 
world.
    If you look at the leveraging data published by EPA--and I 
am sure that Mr. Larson has looked at this as well--every 
dollar invested by Congress creates a return on investment of 
$20 in private-sector investment. I have actually seen that 
order of magnitude be 40 to 60 times. I mentioned a project in 
Ranking Member Wilson's district where EPA allocated $400,000 
in section 128(a) grant funding and the developer is putting in 
$217 million.
    But separate and apart from that, there are things that 
Congress can do, that this subcommittee can do, in terms of 
liability protection and process that will also make private 
capital more likely to go into brownfield sites, even if the 
level of brownfields funding isn't what it has historically 
been, until it can come back. Create CERCLA liability exemption 
for PFAS cleanups, for example, where the cleanup is being 
conducted at the State level. Increase the amount of Low-Income 
Housing Tax Credits available for affordable housing and pass 
the Federal brownfield tax incentive as part of the tax bill.
    Ms. Norton. Thank you.
    Ms. Shook, based on the success of the Brownfields Program 
in Ohio, how can cities best leverage partnerships among 
governments, the private sector, and communities to maximize 
the program's benefits?
    Ms. Shook. Many of our communities do just that. They work 
with both the State to get initial assessments done, leveraging 
the funding we have with our State Brownfields Program, and 
then they go on to apply for their own grants themselves, 
relieving the burden of these cleanups.
    We have a robust land bank program in Ohio, so our counties 
take on a big lift in getting these cleanup dollars and getting 
the cleanups done so that they can attract the businesses and 
the private development. Sometimes they are working in 
partnership with private developers. Sometimes they are ahead 
of the game and are cleaning up these sites in advance of 
having a known end user. So, they have all the work done, they 
have done the environmental work, and then they can advertise 
it and bring in new jobs to their communities with all of the 
funds that they have leveraged over the years.
    Ms. Norton. Finally, Mr. Larson, how would an extended 
reauthorization of the Brownfields Program improve its 
effectiveness?
    Mr. Larson. Well, you have, to the extent that Congress 
would decide to reauthorize the program, you potentially--you 
can revisit some of the programmatic elements that were amended 
in prior reauthorizations. So, it gives Congress the 
opportunity to look at potentially revisiting or considering 
certain legislative options to amend the program, to change or 
modify how it is currently operating, or if they want to change 
other aspects.
    Ms. Norton. Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Collins. The Chair now recognizes Mr. LaMalfa for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. LaMalfa. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Appreciate the panelists today here. Thank you for weighing 
in on this.
    I want to go with Mr. Wilbur. Under the CERCLA policy, the 
issue of strict liability, how much of a chilling effect does 
that have on future owners, people that might want to come in 
and make something out of one of these problem areas, one of 
these brownfields, for something that they didn't do in the 
past or heaven forbid that they bought something without 
knowledge of it and then all of a sudden are left holding the 
bag? Talk a little bit about what kind of chilling effect 
that--to the extent that the liability goes these days for the 
effort to develop and up the pace on cleanup of an area.
    Mr. Wilbur. Well, to the extent of my experience with this 
program, I haven't really been into the liability end of this. 
I know Mr. Goldstein had a lot to say on that in the beginning.
    When we administer these grant programs that have been 
given to our county from the Federal Government, we go out and 
we identify and assess the properties. We acknowledge that 
those are the brownfield sites. And then at that point in time, 
if we are successful in getting a phase 2 grant and we are able 
to remediate, then it is basically, they go through the 
assessment again and make sure that it is clear to be put back 
on the market or be developed.
    Mr. LaMalfa. What I am getting at, though, is overall the 
way the strict liability is interpreted, is it too much of a 
chilling effect on people wanting to do work other than just 
leave it static? Or is there something--I guess let me ask, 
should something be done legislatively to make a stronger 
incentive and less of a negative on taking on one of these 
projects, one of these areas?
    Mr. Wilbur. Well, it is definitely----
    Mr. LaMalfa [interrupting]. For development.
    Mr. Wilbur. Yes. It is definitely a deterrent, I would say, 
for developers in our area. And I honestly, I don't know too 
much more, other than as a person that would be looking to 
develop myself, I wouldn't want to be taking on some of the----
    Mr. LaMalfa [interrupting]. Can you think of any steps 
Congress could do to make it better?
    Mr. Wilbur. I couldn't hear that question, sir.
    Mr. LaMalfa. Can you think of any steps Congress could do 
to make it better?
    Mr. Wilbur. Off the top of my head, I cannot, but I can 
talk to some of my people and submit after.
    Mr. LaMalfa. Okay. Thank you. All right.
    Mr. Larson, how much success have we had on--if you have 
these stats or an idea of--recovering brownfields and other 
problem areas like that? We have got them in northern 
California where certain activities went on in the sixties and 
seventies and such, and there is a groundwater problem. But it 
is an idle field right now and you hope the remediation is 
making it work out as far as cleaning the water, cleaning the 
land.
    How much success have we had with the various Federal 
programs since this has really become conscious in recovering 
many across the country?
    Mr. Larson. Yes. So, regarding kind of the success or 
success metrics, as you have probably heard from a variety of 
different points today, there are a variety of different 
metrics that are commonly cited regarding both acreage under 
the Brownfields Program that have been recovered or jobs 
created. So, certainly in the Brownfields Program, when they 
are talking about a success metric, it is something where it 
has to do with recovered acres or completed sites.
    Mr. LaMalfa. Can you cite--I don't expect you to have an 
exact statistic, but have there been many successful recoveries 
that these lands are now going from useless to something----
    Mr. Larson [interrupting]. Regarding the Federal 
brownfields grants, so the 104(k) competitive grants, to my 
understanding, the most recent data that I was able to find for 
fiscal year 2024, I believe it was somewhere around 12,000 
properties that have been--or sites under that program 
specifically that were recovered for reuse, and some are in the 
ballpark of 40,000 site assessments performed with those 
specific grant programs.
    Certainly, the State programs may have different numbers or 
different numbers for some of the sites that they have 
assessed, but that is just talking about the Brownfields 
Program and not other authorities like Superfund or other types 
of cleanups.
    Mr. LaMalfa. Is primarily the conversion from a useless 
brownfield site, are they mostly going for industrial uses? Are 
we finding that it is successful to not necessarily put housing 
on that or obviously schools or hospitals or things, but are 
they primarily going into industrial use that has a low 
interaction with these possible problems with, like residents, 
let's say?
    Mr. Larson. Probably the most broadest way to answer the 
question is to say that typically reuse decisions and land-use 
decisions are largely up to local communities and local 
governments responsible for zoning or if you have private 
partnerships or private interests in those types of 
redevelopment or certain types of industry. So, it could depend 
upon the site, and it can depend on the condition of the site 
and what those goals are for it.
    Mr. LaMalfa. I need to yield. Thank you. I yield back, Mr. 
Chairman.
    Mr. Collins. The Chair now recognizes Ms. Pou for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. Pou. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Chairman Collins, and Ranking 
Member Wilson, for holding this hearing today.
    My home State of New Jersey shoulders a heavy burden of 
industrial and hazardous waste. As a Member from the State with 
the highest number of Superfund sites and a significant number 
of brownfields, I know well the importance of environmental 
remediation.
    The New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection has 
identified at least 45 brownfield sites in my district alone. 
We must continue to support communities that transform 
contaminated properties into usable spaces.
    For example, the Paterson Great Falls National Historic 
Park was tainted by centuries of industrial waste. The 
Brownfields Program offered a lifeline to address the former 
Allied Textile plant within that park and to promote public 
health and a cleaner environment.
    The EPA's environmental funding is essential, truly 
essential for communities struggling with generating the tax 
revenue needed to redevelop abandoned or blighted properties. 
The program showcases the strength in a public-private 
partnership that benefits everyone. Federal and State partners, 
businesses, environmental communities, we really need to do 
something, and we need to make sure to preserve these very, 
very important communities.
    New Jersey is experiencing a significant affordable housing 
shortage. Mr. Goldstein, in your testimony, you cite Low-Income 
Housing Tax Credit as one of the tools to facilitate affordable 
housing construction on former brownfield sites. Can you please 
elaborate on how smaller brownfield sites like those in densely 
populated States like New Jersey can be redeveloped with these 
particular tax credits, and if you would also share with us 
what are some of the challenges that are associated with 
brownfield developments in those particular urban areas?
    Mr. Goldstein. Absolutely, and I am prepared to speak for 
the next 3 or 4 hours on these questions.
    Ms. Pou. Unfortunately, we don't have that kind of time, 
but I am very eager to hear your response.
    Mr. Goldstein. Yes, ma'am. I will be as brief as I can.
    The first challenge is really making sure that the cleanups 
are sufficient, that there is the proper amount of regulatory 
oversight and transparency, because there historically has been 
a lot of questions about the sufficiency of cleanups on 
Superfund sites and brownfield sites that have been used for 
housing, but many States do that well. Many local regulatory 
agencies do that well, and certainly EPA can and has done that 
well. That is number one. We want these sites to be cleaned up 
to the standard that they need to be cleaned up to make them 
safe for residential use. That is number one.
    Number two, the Low-Income Housing Tax Credit program is 
one of the most successful financing programs that underlie and 
support affordable housing all across the country, but there is 
not enough money in LIHTC to cover the incremental cost and 
risk associated with environmental cleanup.
    In order to perform sufficient cleanups, we need more money 
to affordable housing developers. One way to do that outside of 
the grant program is through the Low-Income Housing Tax Credit 
program. In my written materials, I have some very specific 
suggestions, but then within the context of the Brownfields 
Program, make these grants available to private developers who 
are engaged in the development of affordable and workforce 
housing. Currently, grants are not available to that sector.
    And then finally, referencing the question from one of your 
colleagues, let's amend CERCLA to mitigate the harsh impact of 
strict liability and joint several liability so that parties 
who acquire contaminated sites for affordable housing 
development and clean those sites up under a State Brownfields 
Program have a complete defense against liability under CERCLA. 
That is what we have in Florida, that type of liability bar. 
But you have to do the cleanup. It is a quid pro quo. It is not 
a get out of jail free card.
    Ms. Pou. Thank you. Thank you so very much.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Collins. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Onder for 5 
minutes.
    Dr. Onder. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you for all 
the witnesses being here today.
    Mr. Goldstein, you have described Florida's Brownfields 
Program as a national model, citing its use of State-level 
incentives and liability protections, efficient permitting. 
From your experience, do you believe the Federal Government 
should play a role mostly by supporting and empowering States 
to tailor solutions rather than expanding Washington's control 
over brownfield projects?
    Mr. Goldstein. Well, I think there remains a very vital 
role for EPA to play. Number one, their mere presence in 
connection with complicated cleanups engender a lot of public 
confidence, so that is number one.
    Number two, they bring a lot of expertise to the table and 
they have a lot of experience, and all of that is valuable. 
They also are very efficient, in my experience both in the 
brownfields context and in the Superfund redevelopment context, 
as acting as almost concierge consultants to help local 
governments and neighborhood stakeholders and developers and 
their lenders and capital providers understand how to navigate 
all of the regulatory issues and where the bumps in the road 
are from an environmental perspective and a public health 
perspective.
    And then in terms of actually bringing dollars to bear, 
well, that is an important role as well. But they should be in 
equal partnership with State regulators and local regulators.
    Dr. Onder. You brought something up that I was wondering 
about when it comes to lenders. Are lenders often hesitant to 
loan money where there is a brownfield redevelopment?
    Mr. Goldstein. That's correct. Even the slightest whisper 
of a hint of a shadow, an environmental risk tends to send 
conventional lenders fleeing, because they don't understand 
these issues. They hear a lot about CERCLA and other Federal 
programs and State liability programs. They hear the horror 
stories, and it is much easier to lend on a clean site, and it 
is much better for job security.
    So, it is an existential issue, and it is a bit of a catch-
22 or catch-21, whatever the catch is, because projects need 
financing in order to get over the environmental hurdle, but 
they can't get the financing until they get over the 
environmental hurdle.
    Dr. Onder. Over the hurdle.
    Mr. Goldstein. Which is why I have suggested a brownfields 
loan guarantee fund as an opportunity.
    Dr. Onder. Yes. Okay. Good. So, your support for 
reauthorization of the brownfields tax incentive and new loan 
guarantee program sounds very reasonable. But at this time of 
$36 trillion debt, we want to ensure that we are not just 
subsidizing risk or inflating costs. What accountability 
measures do you support to ensure these incentives go to high-
performing, results-oriented sites and not less productive 
projects?
    Mr. Goldstein. Well, I'm a data hound, so I like data. I 
like reporting and oversight and auditing. Those generate 
important metrics, and they hold grantees' feet to the fire and 
make sure that cleanups are efficient and cost effective. There 
are other belt-and-suspenders we can add to that process, 
including requiring multiple bids for any particular project.
    Dr. Onder. Sure. And you advocate for increasing Low-Income 
Housing Tax Credits for projects built on brownfield sites. 
That may help with cleanup, but how do we ensure that we don't 
end up seeing mission creep where the Brownfields Program has 
just become another affordable housing vehicle as opposed to 
sticking to the primary mission of cleaning up brownfield 
sites?
    Mr. Goldstein. Well, we have got a perfect storm of need in 
this particular public policy arena. We have a lot of sites 
that need to be cleaned up because they are engines of 
disinvestment, and they are orphan in terms of responsible 
parties who have money and the willingness to conduct cleanup, 
and they provide a significant public health risk. So, that is 
on the one hand. On the other hand, we have a tremendous 
affordable housing crisis.
    Dr. Onder. Right.
    Mr. Goldstein. And so, from my perspective and my 
experience, what I am seeing on the ground in Florida and in 
Ranking Member Wilson's district is that there is almost an 
endless ocean of need that you could pour dollars into and not 
have mission creep.
    Dr. Onder. Got it. Yes. I know back home in the St. Louis 
metro area, I am aware of a number of brownfield sites that are 
just prime, prime real estate for commercial development or for 
housing, and they are just sitting vacant and at very low 
prices because of these issues. So, thank you. Thank you for 
your testimony.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Collins. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Ms. 
Friedman for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Friedman. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Really appreciate all 
of the witnesses being here today.
    Listening to the conversation with the committee, it is 
very heartening to hear a conversation where you can't really 
tell what side of the aisle the committee members are. There 
seems to be a lot of, certainly, support for this program and 
an understanding of, I think, of the imperative to expand the 
program to really help these communities that have been 
suffering under the burden of polluted sites and to create the 
housing that we need, and I hope that there is an openness to 
expanding this program and putting the funding into it that we 
need.
    So, the IIJA provides a total of $1.5 billion for the 
program, money that has directly benefited communities in the 
L.A. region. In my area in Los Angeles in 2023, the city of 
L.A. was selected for a brownfields cleanup grant provided by 
the IIJA. The grant funds are going to be used to clean up a 
site called Taylor Yard, which is an old railway line that sits 
in the middle of Los Angeles that would provide wonderful 
parkland for a very park-poor community.
    Also in 2023, the L.A. County Sanitation District was 
selected for a brownfield cleanup grant, also funded through 
the IIJA, and these cleanups are vital to our communities. A 
redevelopment of previously contaminated properties not only 
protects the health of our communities, but stimulates our 
local economies and creates jobs.
    I want to talk more about the housing impact, because that 
is the number one crisis in Los Angeles, particularly now after 
the devastating fires where probably about 20,000 people at 
least lost their homes, and that was on top of an existing 
housing crisis. And I was really interested in your suggestions 
about how to make this program stronger.
    So, I am going to ask a couple of questions--because I am 
already running out of time--whether there is anything that you 
can anticipate that helps cities pay for the infrastructure 
that they need, maybe water, sewer, that sort of thing, on top 
of what the developers are putting in of their own money for 
these sites if we want to create the housing that we need. 
Sometimes we are going to have to upgrade the infrastructure 
going into the sites.
    Also, whether you support increasing the Low-Income Housing 
Tax Credit under section 42 of the IRS Code to 6 percent and 12 
percent for affordable housing on brownfield sites and whether 
you think that would have an impact. And whether a new and one-
time Low-Income Housing Tax Credit of 80 percent of the cost of 
land acquisition and demolition to develop affordable housing 
would be beneficial, and just anything else that we can take 
home with us to look at, because we do have this huge need to 
create affordable housing, and we have this program, so, how do 
we make it work better.
    Mr. Goldstein, I think I will ask you.
    Mr. Goldstein. Thank you. I don't want to take all of your 
time, so I will try and be brief.
    Yes to every recommendation you made with respect to the 
Low-Income Housing Tax Credit. At those levels, at those 
percentages, that would be a tremendous incentive to the 
private affordable housing development sector to invest in your 
area and in other similar areas across the country.
    Increasing Federal funding for infrastructure, water, 
sewer, especially, and roads where brownfield sites and 
Superfund sites will be reused safely for affordable housing, 
that is number two with a bullet.
    And number three with a bullet--and I am repeating myself--
is let's drain some of the risk and anxiety out of CERCLA 
generally and the application of CERCLA to PFAS specifically 
because that is a coming storm. By creating an exemption, a 
blanket exemption under Federal law for developers and lenders, 
provided that the developer and the local government are 
cleaning up under a State Brownfields Program. That keeps all 
of these sites out of the National Priorities List and the 
National Contingency Plan and allows redevelopment to be more 
certain.
    Ms. Friedman. So, I don't know if you are familiar with 
California's old redevelopment tax increment program that the 
State clawed back in about 2010. I, when I was in the 
California Legislature, reintroduced some tax increment 
programs focusing on specific sites, particularly brownfields 
and blight.
    Is there anything that would be a similar scheme at the 
Federal level? And I am asking this not knowing the answer, 
because I have been looking for some way to help encourage more 
of this redevelopment. Is there anything you can think of that 
would work in a similar way?
    Mr. Goldstein. Two things come to mind immediately. Number 
one, Congress could expand the New Markets Tax Credit Program 
to create carve-outs and expanded funded opportunities for 
brownfields generally and affordable and workforce housing on 
brownfields specifically. So that is number one, the New 
Markets Tax Credit Program.
    And number two, expand the Opportunity Zone program 
specifically for brownfields and, as a subspecifically, for 
housing on brownfields. But I will say this, not just housing 
alone, because there is a mixed-use component that historically 
has traveled with brownfields that gives you two bites at the 
apple. One is housing for people who need it, and number two is 
job creation opportunities. That is the mixed-use component 
where you have commercial, retail, or industrial.
    Ms. Friedman. Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Collins. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Hurd for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Hurd of Colorado. Thank you very much, Chairman Collins 
and Ranking Member Wilson, for holding this hearing on the 
Brownfields Program.
    I have the pleasure of serving as the chairman of the House 
Natural Resources Indian and Insular Affairs Subcommittee, and 
in that capacity as that subcommittee chair, I am interested in 
learning how this program benefits our Tribal communities in 
Indian Country. And the EPA's Brownfields Program has provided 
important funding in Indian Country in remediating and revising 
these environmental sites.
    The Southern Ute Tribe in my district has used money to 
redevelop a brownfield site, for example, for now office space. 
That is one successful example of use of that program. But I 
have also heard that Tribes can at times struggle to attract 
non-Federal funding, particularly compared to counties or local 
governments.
    And so, Mr. Wilbur, I wanted to ask you, can you talk about 
specific challenges that you can think of that Tribal 
governments face when accessing brownfields funds, and how 
might Congress better empower Tribal communities' efforts to 
redevelop their sites?
    Mr. Wilbur. Well, I will take a stab at it here. 
Definitely, in county government, we have a lot more research 
than some of our Tribal partners do. And I will first preface 
by saying we can go back at NACo and we can reach out to some 
of our Tribal communities and get you that information so you 
will have accurate data on that as well.
    But let's just go back to where I was starting that, yes, 
there are significant challenges, whether it be staffing to 
apply for these grants, and oftentimes, the reporting on those, 
and then it is also trying to get developers to develop in 
those areas, too. Some are very, very rural, more rural than my 
area or other parts of the Midwest even.
    Mr. Hurd of Colorado. Do you have any ideas how Tribal 
communities might attract more non-Federal funding for these 
projects as a way that we could facilitate that while maybe 
respecting Tribal sovereignty? Any ideas there?
    Mr. Wilbur. Off the top of my head, I would say no, but we 
can definitely get you some answers back on that, sir.
    Mr. Hurd of Colorado. Okay. Very good.
    Mr. Goldstein, question for you. The inspector general 
found that millions of dollars in brownfields revolving loan 
fund dollars have sat idle across EPA regions. From the 
private-sector perspective, what are the key barriers to 
deploying that capital?
    Mr. Goldstein. That is a great question. I have had 
experience with this specifically in south Florida. What we 
have seen is that, frankly, the RLF grantees, the revolving 
loan fund grantees, tend to want to put that money out at too 
high an interest rate. They are looking for too high of a 
return, which to me goes against the public policy associated 
with those grant funds. Purpose as I understand it, or as I 
would like it to be, is to get those funds into the hands of 
communities and developers as quickly as possible so those 
funds can be put to work and those sites can be cleaned up and 
repurposed.
    Interestingly, the RLF, the revolving loan fund, grant that 
goes to eligible entities not inclusive of private developers, 
once those funds are received by the RLF grantees, they can be 
loaned out to private developers. And we have used those, our 
clients and my development company has used that funding, but 
it has been slow going for most RLF grantees, typically because 
they are asking for too much in terms of an interest rate.
    So, what I would like to see, if I may, is a requirement 
from Congress imposing a cap on the amount of interest that can 
be charged. It is important that the money be paid back so that 
the money can be put back out on the street. That is the whole 
concept of revolving loan, but not at an interest factor that 
makes it uncompetitive or punitive. We want to lower barriers 
to redevelopment for private developers.
    Mr. Hurd of Colorado. What would you suggest how that cap 
would be formulated, just out of curiosity?
    Mr. Goldstein. I am sorry?
    Mr. Hurd of Colorado. How would that cap be formulated? Any 
ideas what that might look like?
    Mr. Goldstein. I would like--best case scenario would be a 
zero-percent interest loan. That money would fly out the door 
and would be put immediately to use.
    Mr. Hurd of Colorado. Okay. Very good. Thank you very much, 
Mr. Goldstein.
    With that, Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    Mr. Collins. The Chair now recognizes Ms. Scholten for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. Scholten. Thank you, Chair Collins and Ranking Member 
Wilson, and to our esteemed witnesses for joining us here today 
and for your incredible work on this issue.
    Michigan is the beating heart of this country's 
manufacturing operations. And while that is an immense source 
of pride for our State, unfortunately, careless disposal of 
hazardous materials associated with that heavy manufacturing 
has left my home State with nearly 24,000 contaminated sites, 
all while being nestled right next to the largest freshwater 
resource in the entire world.
    The first source of attack, of course, should always be 
holding bad actors accountable who have polluted and need to 
clean up their messes. But when they are not, these properties 
are thrust on the shoulders of taxpayers and local governments 
to clean up and repurpose. Fortunately, the EPA's Brownfields 
Program has provided communities with the resources necessary 
to catalyze the redevelopment and safely address these 
pollutants.
    The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law built on this progress 
directing $9 million in Federal grants funding to Michigan 
alone has shown just how effective these programs can be. These 
investments have remedied the wrongdoings of the past while 
preparing the State to innovate and preserve its manufacturing 
legacy.
    My first question. In addition to encouraging environmental 
stewardship, the Brownfields Program is also a key tool, as I 
mentioned, to revitalize these communities. I share the 
chairman's concerns about fiscal responsibility. In fact, I 
stand on fiscal responsibility. It is essential that we spend 
our taxpayer dollars in an effective manner.
    Throughout Michigan, we have seen how fiscally responsible 
investment in this program can be. Redeveloped properties have 
ushered in new jobs, increased local tax bases, and stimulated 
neighborhoods. These investments are an incredible use of 
taxpayer dollars, reinvesting money right back into these 
communities.
    Ms. Shook, can you speak to how redevelopment of blighted 
properties is an effective use of taxpayer dollars and how it 
benefits local economies across the country?
    Ms. Shook. Thank you. Investment in our communities really 
can allow the locals to reinvent how their communities have 
developed, whether it be built around a former auto 
manufacturing site--which we also have many of in Ohio--to see 
them think differently about how they want it to look in the 
future, whether it be mixed-use and housing or a new commercial 
development completely. They can change the health effects in 
the community from having dangerous contaminants available for 
exposure to their communities to a new productive use.
    So, we have seen a variety of projects come through, 
especially through our voluntary cleanup program, that have 
created brandnew metro parks in areas that were otherwise 
industrial histories. You will see that on the Lake Erie 
waterfront and a few of our different communities.
    To moving back the commercial developments a block away so 
that you can keep your park space available and have all those 
recreational and tourism aspects, and then you have new 
commercial, vibrant businesses opening, new office spaces, new 
restaurants that drive visitors to your communities. It can be 
a true catalyst to getting people back into your neighborhoods.
    Ms. Scholten. I think your testimony speaks for itself, and 
it is essential to be asking as we look to these cuts, why? Why 
are we saying we can't afford this right now, right. We have 
choices to be made in this country, and while on the one hand 
we are allowing massive tax breaks to major corporations, we 
are saying we can't afford this incredibly fiscally responsible 
investment back into our communities. To me it seems like we 
can't afford not to.
    Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Collins. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Mr. DeSaulnier. I'm sorry, I 
butchered that.
    Mr. DeSaulnier. Obviously, you took French in high school 
because that was great.
    Mr. Collins. There was a McDonald's; it was called french 
fries.
    Mr. DeSaulnier. I respond to anything close to it.
    Well, thank you to all the witnesses.
    Mr. Goldstein, I wanted to ask you a question. I represent 
an area in the San Francisco Bay area, the county I have 
represented for a long time at the local, State, and Federal 
level. I was an air regulator, but worked closely with the 
Regional Water Quality Board. We have the highest industrial 
and hazardous material sites on the west coast by concentration 
geographically in population because the bay area is very 
populated. But because of the access to deepwater ports, it is 
really crucial, particularly to the petroleum industry. There 
are five refineries. They are mostly in Mr. Garamendi's 
district, but have been in mine in my various service.
    So, what's happening is--and also northern California is 
transitioning very rapidly, mostly from market rate in terms of 
renewable fuels and alternative energy cars.
    So, we have got one refinery that just announced last week 
or 2 weeks ago, the Valero Refinery in Benicia, California. 
Now, these five refineries produce 25 percent of the CARB-
certified fuel in California and 50 percent of the diesel fuel, 
so, the ripple effect. So there are Superfund sites, brownfield 
sites.
    Most of the property in the bay area doesn't get deserted. 
We have had brownfield sites. But it is the interaction between 
these that I am interested in, where the liability is when 
venture capital companies decide to come in and buy a big 
hazardous material site because it's not worth what it was 10 
years ago. And as they see the transition happening, largely 
because of the private sector, in spite of some of my 
colleagues saying it's regulatory; there is regulatory 
enforcement that I support as appropriate.
    So, that's sort of my broad question is, in this case with 
Valero, I think they are leveraging. The local city council has 
been very demanding on them, but there is a lot of demand to 
come in and buy the property. But in that transition, whether 
it is brownfield, Superfund, public oversight at the State or 
the local level, we have had a lot of problem with the Regional 
Water Quality Board where the business model seems, to me, in 
some of these places that have been bought now and are just 
going--one plant that was bought, they said we bought it for 
spare parts because we know there is a limited timeframe of 
this refinery.
    So, discharge petitions and what is going into the bay 
delta, all of that sort of intersects with brownfields. Are 
they going to leave the site? Prospectively they could.
    So, I am just curious if you had any view--and I realize 
this is a specific hearing, but it intersects with the larger 
economic pressure where we are changing a lot of our use to 
hazardous material sites in areas that have concentrations of 
them. And it has a lot of impact on environmental justice as we 
have switched in California to talk about the cumulative 
effects.
    So, back to this hearing, it is a small potential portion 
of the overall conversation I am trying to have with you. But 
if you have any thoughts in particular about this and where it 
might be something that we have to think about of supporting 
it.
    And then lastly, region 9 where EPA is headquartered in the 
west coast has been a target in the first administration where 
it actually moves the Administrator out of the offices and has 
pushed for early buyout. So we don't have the resources we used 
to have in northern California and in the west coast because 
region 9 is being abandoned, particularly the EPA.
    Mr. Goldstein. So, for these types of sites where you have 
a very significant history of use of acutely hazardous 
materials that are likely widespread creating significant 
public health risk and questions regarding the confidence that 
the public will have in the completeness and thoroughness of 
the cleanup, that illustrates the need for a very vital and 
vibrant regulatory dimension to go hand in glove with all of 
the economic incentives that will be necessary to encourage the 
private sector to do most of the heavy lifting associated with 
that magnitude of cleanup.
    And so, if you are asking me what my view is of that type 
of scenario, which has played out all over the country, it is 
that the Brownfields Program is multidimensional. It is not 
just about grants. It is not just about liability protection. 
It is not just about private capital coming in or regulatory 
oversight to protect public health. It is all of that. And so 
there is not one particular box that this committee can or 
should check and expect that the momentum that has been 
achieved since the mid-1990s will be maintained.
    Put another way to bring this answer in for a landing, we 
need to continue to have strong regulatory oversight at the 
Federal level when the issues are exceedingly complex and may 
have a Federal component, a multistate component. Also, the 
State and local regulatory oversight on the one hand, and then 
all of the financial tools and the liability tools on the 
other.
    Mr. DeSaulnier. Mr. Chairman, it is really interesting to 
see as these big, billion-dollar assets from private sector 
become less of an asset and more of a liability from a 
financial model and where it's appropriate for us in Congress 
to be--and all of these refineries heretofore were very high 
performing in their total portfolio partially because the 
public demanded it.
    Mr. Goldstein. One last point on your question, which is a 
great question, and I think this may be what you are getting 
at. As these billion-dollar assets transition to billion-dollar 
liabilities, there are funds out there, very significantly 
resourced funds, that will rush to fill that gap and make the 
safe transition, but they need the right regulatory environment 
in which to do that. And in that sense, while regulatory 
oversight to protect public health is critical, we also need 
the appropriate opportunities from a CERCLA perspective to, as 
I mentioned earlier, drain the anxiety out of potential 
enforcement.
    Mr. DeSaulnier. I want to thank the chairman for indulging 
this. But I will just close with this. The property itself is 
worth a lot of money. There are developers who are interested 
with all liabilities, so the existing value of that liability 
still continues, and the local government has a lot of say 
because they have the land-use jurisdiction. So, it's a 
fascinating subject.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Collins. The gentleman yields back. You're fine. We are 
actually--we are going to--I was going to open it up for a 
second round of questioning right quick because, personally, I 
had a few questions of my own that I wanted to ask. So, I am 
going to yield myself 5 minutes for questioning.
    I want to open up, Mr. Larson, can you give us the 
difference in a Superfund and a brownfield, and can a 
brownfield be a Superfund?
    Mr. Larson. Sure. I am happy to address the question and 
provide some points on that.
    Like I mentioned in my opening statement, the Superfund 
Program was established in 1980, largely in response to very 
high-profile cases where you had a variety of hazardous waste 
sites and communities that were acutely exposed to various 
contamination along with other factors that led to that 
enactment.
    And so, as part of that, Congress under CERCLA established 
a liability framework for potentially responsible parties who 
were responsible for leasing those hazardous substances into 
the environment. And so, when you are looking at the CERCLA 
framework under Superfund Program, it is a cleanup program that 
is responding to releases of hazardous substances and other 
pollutants and contaminants into the environment.
    So, you can think of it as, it's an enforcement-first 
framework where EPA is looking to, under the Superfund Program, 
they are looking to enforce liability first against potentially 
responsible parties to make them pay for the cleanup of the 
site, whereas there are--not that we have time to get into it--
but there are certain other mechanisms for sites that are 
elevated at the National Priorities List. You have additional 
Federal funding mechanisms through the Hazardous Substance 
Superfund Trust Fund for those types of sites.
    For the Brownfields Program, it was set up and it is 
authorized within CERCLA, but it provides--it is primarily a 
grant-based program for these eligible entities and these 
eligible sites that is intended to both, as we have been 
speaking about, provide some economic assistance or financial 
assistance for these specific projects, but in addition to 
that, to provide liability exemptions so that you have--we 
talked about there are the current and former owners and 
operators of the site. You also have strict liability and joint 
and several retroactive to the time of release.
    Mr. Collins. And I think that's where I want to pick up 
from there, and it is a good segue into my next question with 
Mr. Goldstein.
    Can you quantify the loss of investment from private sector 
just because of that liability problem that they perceive or 
they may have?
    Mr. Goldstein. I can't do it scientifically, Chairman, but 
I can speak from experience. I can tell you what my--I have a 
gut-based answer. And in Florida alone, we have probably seen 
close to $1 billion in avoided transactions as a result of 
potential exposure to CERCLA liability. That's just one 
person's environmental practice over a 33-year timeframe. You 
could probably multiply that by several orders of magnitude.
    Mr. Collins. Thank you.
    Ms. Shook, I was listening to someone else's testimony. Are 
all sites to be cleaned to a residential use--or is there like 
a commercial, and residential----
    Ms. Shook [interrupting]. So most--we do not clean all 
sites to a residential use. In our voluntary cleanup program, 
we have standards for both commercial sites and for residential 
sites.
    Mr. Collins. Okay.
    Ms. Shook. We allow the end user to determine which land 
use they are interested in. Any site could be residential with 
the right amount of funding.
    Mr. Collins. Thank you. Thank you.
    And one last question--I will open this up to everybody--
are we adding sites continually or has it stopped? I mean, at 
some point, we should be able to hold people liable for messing 
up the land like that. I mean, I can understand things years 
and years ago, but are we still adding, or have we plateaued?
    Ms. Shook. I can--I will take that. Yes, we are still 
adding. As businesses go under, as they file for bankruptcy, 
while we can try to hold them accountable, they are often 
overwhelmed with their liabilities and can't complete a 
cleanup. That is where the Brownfields Program is.
    Many of our brownfields aren't massive sites. A lot of them 
still are mom-and-pop gas stations, a dry cleaner, a former 
mechanic shop. And in many of those cases, you are never going 
to have an entity that can fund the cleanup that they were 
responsible for.
    Mr. Collins. All right. Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. DeSaulnier, did you have additional questions?
    Mr. DeSaulnier. Just wanted to follow up sort of, again, on 
the same line. In looking at going forward, where we have such 
a large part of potential brownfield sites in the country, 
around energy transition, what could we do better so that we 
could avoid these liability issues, to make sure that we 
anticipate this huge transition--one-fifth of the economy, in 
my view, is happening, and I just happened to be in a region 
that needs it in many ways--what do you think, from your 
experience, Mr. Goldstein, where we could sort of go upstream 
and protect revenue for brownfield, but anticipate these huge 
transitions we are going through on hazardous material sites 
related to energy?
    Mr. Goldstein. Thank you for the question. A few thoughts. 
Number one, enforcement at the Federal level and at the State 
level remains a critical public policy need, because without a 
cop on the beat, people are going to do what people tend to do, 
which is take shortcuts. Now, not everyone will do that, but 
enough people will do that that we will continue to see the 
volume of impacted sites increase. And sometimes things happen 
not because people intend them to, but that is just the way it 
goes in industry and business.
    But to get ahead of the game, which is I think what you are 
getting at, what Congress can do is a lot of what we talked 
about today: improve the process, shorten the timeframe from 
which a party applies for a grant and that money gets to where 
it needs to go. That's number one.
    And number two, put in place more statutory tools to create 
broader exemptions from liability so that private capital will 
feel more comfortable investing in these risky sites.
    The best way to get ahead of the game is to incentivize 
private parties to tackle these problems sooner than later, so 
that we don't discover 10 years down the road that we could 
have done something 10 years earlier.
    Mr. DeSaulnier. And just a followup question. Having served 
at every level of Government and having started as a 
Republican--some of my colleagues are always shocked to hear 
that, but parties change--is the inefficiency of sometimes--
speaking in California, although I love it, is the Federal 
regulators, particularly vis-a-vis region 9 that used to work 
closely with California and local government, what could we do 
to coordinate that, knowing that the modeling shows that these 
facilities, in places like I represent, are changing because of 
the private sector?
    So, the coordination of the regulatory agencies is a 
frustration for me. They all do a good job, but their 
coordination is not very effective.
    Mr. Goldstein. Well, in terms of environmental 
redevelopment, there is a model at the Federal level that is 
somewhat dormant. The Federal Brownfields Partnership, in 
theory, a number of the Federal agencies are supposed to be 
coordinating all of their brownfield resources--the Army Corps 
of Engineers, Housing and Urban Development, Department of 
Energy, Department of Commerce, and so on. That rarely happens, 
unfortunately.
    Going forward, it would be wonderful to have that type of 
coordination, not just among the Federal partners, but among 
State partners as well to identify some of these larger 
transitional projects so that all of the agency stakeholders 
can collaborate with local government officials and the 
developers who are bringing the capital to the table.
    Mr. DeSaulnier. And as far as the modeling goes, just 
getting DOE and Department of Transportation, EPA, resources 
all to have communication, at least in region 9 they were 
pretty good, but they still--just working across sister 
agencies at the Federal level, and then working with the State 
and the regional agencies and the local agencies, was always 
pretty inefficient and largely stovepiped. So, for the private 
sector, it was not very efficient.
    So, to the degree, if there is anyone on the other side of 
the aisle who would like to work with someone like myself on 
this, I think it could be very helpful. And then we wouldn't 
have to use brownfield moneys because we would get far enough 
ahead of it that we could stop people from having a liability 
and walking away.
    Thank you----
    Mr. Goldstein [interrupting]. I think brownfields money--
brownfields grants will always have an important role to play, 
at least at the very inception of a project.
    Mr. DeSaulnier. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, 
witnesses.
    Mr. Collins. Thank you. The gentleman yields back.
    Are there any further questions from any other Members?
    Not seeing anyone in here, that's going to conclude our 
hearing for today. I would like to thank each of the witnesses 
for your testimony.
    The subcommittee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:06 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

                       Submissions for the Record

                              ----------                              


 Prepared Statement of Hon. Rick Larsen, a Representative in Congress 
    from the State of Washington, and Ranking Member, Committee on 
                   Transportation and Infrastructure
    Thank you, Chairman Collins and Ranking Member Wilson, for holding 
this hearing on the Brownfields Program.
    The EPA's Brownfields Program is one of the most effective tools we 
have for turning the legacy of pollution into opportunities for 
progress.
    Since its inception, this program has returned over 10,800 sites to 
productive reuse, leveraging more than $40.4 billion in redevelopment 
funding and supporting over 270,000 jobs.
    The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law delivered $1.5 billion over five 
years to support assessment, cleanup, job training and technical 
assistance for communities across the country.
    These are smart, targeted investments that turn blighted properties 
into engines of economic growth and environmental justice. They help 
build parks, revitalize neighborhoods, expand tax bases and protect 
public health--all while creating jobs.
    In Washington's Second District, the Brownfields Program has helped 
transform the historic Northern State Hospital in Sedro-Woolley--once a 
contaminated and abandoned facility--into a thriving hub for 
innovation, known today as the SWIFT Center.
    This 225-acre site is being repurposed into a mixed-use campus 
focused on technology, job creation, historic preservation, and public 
recreation through partnerships with the Port of Skagit and local and 
state agencies.
    Contaminants like arsenic and chlorinated solvents have been 
identified and addressed through EPA and state-supported grants--nearly 
$600,000 in federal funding alone.
    Thanks to the Brownfields Program, the SWIFT Center now supports 
local employment and protects sensitive habitat like Hansen Creek while 
still honoring the legacy of Northern State Hospital.
    However, the continued success of the Brownfields Program is now at 
risk. The Trump Administration's ``skinny budget'' has proposed cutting 
EPA funding by 55 percent--the largest rollback in the agency's 
history.
    These reckless cuts would devastate the Brownfields Program and 
undermine communities still living with the consequences of past 
industrial pollution.
    These cuts will also disproportionately impact rural, disadvantaged 
communities and working-class neighborhoods--those who can least afford 
the loss of targeted federal assistance.
    We must continue to invest in these projects. Every dollar spent 
cleaning up a brownfield site is a dollar spent creating jobs, 
restoring communities, and building a healthier future for all 
Americans.
    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today about how we can 
protect and expand this vital work.

                                 [all]