[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
A HEARING WITH
SANCTUARY STATE GOVERNORS
=====================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND
GOVERNMENT REFORM
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
JUNE 12, 2025
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Serial No. 119-34
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Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available on: govinfo.gov, oversight.house.gov or docs.house.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
60-813 PDF WASHINGTON : 2025
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COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM
JAMES COMER, Kentucky, Chairman
Jim Jordan, Ohio Vacancy, Ranking Minority Member
Mike Turner, Ohio Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of
Paul Gosar, Arizona Columbia
Virginia Foxx, North Carolina Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts
Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois
Michael Cloud, Texas Ro Khanna, California
Gary Palmer, Alabama Kweisi Mfume, Maryland
Clay Higgins, Louisiana Shontel Brown, Ohio
Pete Sessions, Texas Melanie Stansbury, New Mexico
Andy Biggs, Arizona Robert Garcia, California
Nancy Mace, South Carolina Maxwell Frost, Florida
Pat Fallon, Texas Summer Lee, Pennsylvania
Byron Donalds, Florida Greg Casar, Texas
Scott Perry, Pennsylvania Jasmine Crockett, Texas
William Timmons, South Carolina Emily Randall, Washington
Tim Burchett, Tennessee Suhas Subramanyam, Virginia
Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia Yassamin Ansari, Arizona
Lauren Boebert, Colorado Wesley Bell, Missouri
Anna Paulina Luna, Florida Lateefah Simon, California
Nick Langworthy, New York Dave Min, California
Eric Burlison, Missouri Ayanna Pressley, Massachusetts
Eli Crane, Arizona Rashida Tlaib, Michigan
Brian Jack, Georgia
John McGuire, Virginia
Brandon Gill, Texas
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Mark Marin, Staff Director
James Rust, Deputy Staff Director
Mitch Benzine, General Counsel
Alex Rankin, Counsel
Billy Grant, Professional Staff Member
Mallory Cogar, Deputy Director of Operations and Chief Clerk
Contact Number: 202-225-5074
Jamie Smith, Minority Staff Director
Contact Number: 202-225-5051
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C O N T E N T S
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OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Hon. James Comer, U.S. Representative, Chairman.................. 1
Hon. Stephen F. Lynch, U.S. Representative, Ranking Member....... 3
Introduction by Hon. Raja Krishnamoorthi, U.S. Representative.... 6
WITNESSES
The Honorable Tim Walz, Governor, State of Minnesota
Oral Statement................................................... 7
The Honorable JB Pritzker, Governor, State of Illinois
Oral Statement................................................... 8
The Honorable Kathy Hochul, Governor, State of New York
Oral Statement................................................... 10
Ms. Skye Perryman (Minority Witness), President and Chief
Executive Officer, Democracy Forward Foundation
Oral Statement................................................... 11
Written opening statements and bios are available on the U.S.
House of Representatives Document Repository at:
docs.house.gov.
INDEX OF DOCUMENTS
* Child Picture; submitted by Rep. Pressley.
* Article, KutNews, ``Counties That Provided Sanctuary to
Undocumented Immigrants Saw Falling Crime''; submitted by Rep.
Ansari.
* Article, NILC, ``Data Shows Sanctuary Policies Make
Communities Safer''; submitted by Rep. Ansari.
* Tweet, ``Senator Alex Padilla Just Forcefully Removed'';
submitted by Rep. Ansari.
* Article, Alabama Reflector, ``Study Says Undocumented
Immigrants Paid Almost 100B in Taxes''; submitted by Rep.
Crockett.
* Article, Reuters, ``White Supremacists Behind Over 80 Percent
of Extremism-Related Murders''; submitted by Rep. Crockett.
* Letter, March 15, 2025, from Rep. Torres to Governor Hochul
re Penn Station; submitted by Rep. Donalds.
* Tweet, May 23, 2018, Governor Walz; submitted by Rep. Emmer.
* Article, Axios, ``Democratic Senator Forcibly Removed From
DHS Press Conference''; submitted by Rep. Frost.
* Article, The Hill, ``Padilla Forcibly Removed From Noem Press
Conference''; submitted by Rep. Frost.
* Article, NBC, ``Senator Alex Padilla Removed From News
Conference With Noem''; submitted by Rep. Frost.
* Article, Fox32 Chicago, ``Glenview Family Seeks Justice After
Migrant Suspect Kills Daughter and Friend''; submitted by Rep.
LaHood.
* Article, ABC7 Chicago, ``Two Migrant Men Beat Chicago
Businessman to Death''; submitted by Rep. LaHood.
* Letter, October 2, 2023, Letter to Governor Pritzker to
President Biden, re Border Policy; submitted by Rep. LaHood.
* Article, Politico, ``Hegseth Won't Commit to Obeying Courts
on Marines in LA''; submitted by Rep. Lynch.
* Article, Law and Crime Magazine, ``Judge Rebukes DOJ
Explanation for Ignoring Court Order''; submitted by Rep.
Lynch.
* Article, Defense News, ``LA Deployments to Cost 134 Million
and Last 60 Days''; submitted by Rep. Lynch.
* Article, Seattle Times, ``National Sheriff's Association Head
Tears Into Fed's Sanctuary List''; submitted by Rep. Lynch.
* Article, NBC News, ``Trump Admins Threat to Suspend Core U.S.
Legal Right Sparks Outcry''; submitted by Rep. Lynch.
* Article, The Nation Magazine, ``Trump Wants Thousands of
Migrant Children to Represent Themselves''; submitted by Rep.
Lynch.
* Article, Press, ``Trump Wants to Cut Funding to Sanctuary
Cities and Towns''; submitted by Rep. Lynch.
* Article, MSN, ``Unquestionably in Violation Judge Says U.S.
Government Didn't Follow Court Order''; submitted by Rep.
Lynch.
* Statement, X, Padilla getting arrested; submitted by Rep.
Lynch.
* Statement, Senator Padilla Investigation; submitted by Rep.
Lynch.
* Statement, Alliance for Immigrant Survivors; submitted by
Rep. Lynch.
* Statement, National Immigrant Justice Center; submitted by
Rep. Lynch.
* Statement, National Immigration Law Center; submitted by Rep.
Lynch.
* Statement, Rep. Betty McCollum on Minnesota's Declining Crime
Rate; submitted by Rep. Lynch.
* Article, The Hill, ``Latinas for Trump Co-Founder Blasts
Inhumane Immigrant Arrests''; submitted by Rep. Mfume.
* Article, The Independent, ``Trump Ordered a Critically Ill
Four-Year-Old Mexican Girl to Leave Country''; submitted by
Rep. Mfume.
* Article, Forbes, ``Trump Team Focuses Deportations On
Immigration''; submitted by Rep. Mfume.
* Article, Rolling Stone, ``Trump Has Now Deported Multiple
U.S. Citizen Children''; submitted by Rep. Mfume.
* Article, Fox News, ``Dem Governor JB Pritzker Vows to do
Everything I Can to Protect our Undocumented Immigrants'';
submitted by Rep. Miller.
* Article, Capital News Illinois, ``Trump's 100 days Pritzker
Calls For Mass Mobilization as he Grows His National Profile'';
submitted by Rep. Miller.
* Article, NYT, ``Marines to Join National Guard Troops
Protecting ICE Agents in LA''; submitted by Rep. Min.
* Article, NBC, ``DHS Identifies Over 400 Migrants Brought Into
US by ISIS-affiliated Human Smuggling Network''; submitted by
Rep. Palmer.
* Congressional Testimony, Joseph Humire; submitted by Rep.
Palmer.
* Final Management Alert, DHS OIG, ICE Cannot Monitor All
Unaccompanied Migrant Children; submitted by Rep. Sessions.
* Final Report, DHS OIG, ICE Cannot Effectively Monitor
Location and Status of All UAC; submitted by Rep. Sessions.
* Letter, Mahmoud Khalil to His Son; submitted by Rep. Tlaib.
* Statement, by Chang, Cavanaugh, Santana, and Bayer in
Response to Maykol Bogoya-Duarte; submitted by Rep. Tlaib.
The documents listed above are available at: docs.house.gov.
A HEARING WITH
SANCTUARY STATE GOVERNORS
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THURSDAY, JUNE 12, 2025
U.S. House of Representatives
Committee on Oversight and Government Reform
Washington, D.C.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:05 a.m., in
room HVC-210, U.S. Capitol Visitor Center, Hon. James Comer
[Chairman of the Committee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Comer, Jordan, Gosar, Foxx,
Grothman, Cloud, Palmer, Higgins, Sessions, Biggs, Mace,
Fallon, Donalds, Perry, Timmons, Burchett, Greene, Boebert,
Luna, Langworthy, Burlison, Crane, Jack, McGuire, Gill, Lynch,
Norton, Krishnamoorthi, Khanna, Mfume, Brown, Stansbury,
Garcia, Frost, Lee, Casar, Crockett, Subramanyam, Ansari, Bell,
Simon, Min, Pressley, and Tlaib.
Also present: Representatives Stefanik, Emmer, Miller,
Fischbach, Lawler, Stauber, Tenney, LaHood, Ocasio-Cortez,
Davis, Moskowitz, Ramirez, Goldman, Morrison, and Craig.
Chairman Comer. This hearing of the Committee on Oversight
and Government Reform will come to order. I want to welcome
everyone here today.
Without objection, the Chair can declare a recess at any
time.
I now recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening
statement.
OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN JAMES COMER REPRESENTATIVE FROM
KENTUCKY
Good morning. Today, the House Oversight Committee will
continue to examine the consequences of reckless and dangerous
sanctuary policies that jeopardize public safety. Three
sanctuary state governors from Minnesota, New York, and
Illinois are here to testify under oath about why they allow
criminal illegal aliens to roam free in American communities.
Let me be clear: sanctuary policies do not protect Americans.
They protect criminal illegal aliens. That is a fact that the
Abraham family knows all too well. With us today is the father
of Katie Abraham, Joe, and Katie's stepmother, Michelle.
In January of this year, Katie was tragically killed in a
car crash near the University of Illinois in Urbana. Urbana,
like the State of Illinois, is a sanctuary jurisdiction.
Katie's killer was a previously deported criminal illegal alien
who was driving drunk. He fled the scene and the jurisdiction
and was later apprehended by the U.S. Marshal Service in Texas.
Katie was just 20 years old. She had a bright future ahead of
her that was stolen from her and her very loving family. The
illegal alien who took Katie's life should never have been
allowed into our country. This was a preventable crime.
Unfortunately, there are too many instances where criminal
illegal aliens have harmed Americans.
Behind me are photos of some of the many criminal illegal
aliens that have been captured in Illinois, Minnesota, and New
York. These criminals have been convicted of crimes, including
vehicular homicide of a woman, sexual abuse of children,
slashing a victim with a machete, and carjacking, among many
other crimes. It is absolutely sickening that sanctuary
jurisdictions seek to protect these criminals rather than
protect Americans.
Instead of putting America first, the Biden-Harris
Administration deliberately dismantled the border security to
unleash the worst border disaster in American history. Their
radical policies allowed millions of illegals to flood into our
country. Americans voted to end the Biden border crisis, and
President Trump has delivered on his promise to secure the
border. He has taken bold, decisive action to restore our
sovereignty and make America safer with each passing day. And
here in Congress, we are working to pass the One Big Beautiful
bill to fund U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement so it can
carry out the mass deportation of criminal illegal aliens.
Despite President Trump's efforts to secure the border and
enforce the law, Democrat-run sanctuary cities and states are
siding with illegal aliens. For today's Democrat Party, it
seems unlimited illegal immigration is not a failure of policy.
It is the policy. And that agenda is being pushed at every
level of government, and this comes at a steep cost to public
safety, strains law enforcement resources, and imposes a
massive financial burden on both Federal and state taxpayers.
That is not just bad policy, it is a serious oversight failure.
Congress must confront this absurd reality. State and local
officials are actively undermining Federal immigration
enforcement even when it is aimed at making their own
communities safer. It is time to determine what legislative
action is needed to stop this subversion and restore the rule
of law. It is growing more and more absurd every day.
In recent weeks, we have witnessed a Democrat senator who
traveled to a foreign country for a wellness check on a foreign
Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13) gang member and now indicted human
smuggler that ended with a photo op and margaritas on the
rocks. The fervor among Democrats that take the side of illegal
alien criminals grew so strongly, that I even had to deny a
written request from Members of this very Committee to go on a
taxpayer-funded junket to visit with this same MS-13 gang
member. Earlier this year, I launched an investigation into the
radical pro-illegal immigration policies of sanctuary
jurisdictions. At an Oversight Committee hearing with some of
our country's worst sanctuary city mayors earlier this year,
the public was able to clearly see how they care more about
illegal aliens than their own citizens. They have pledged not
to cooperate with Federal law enforcement officials, not even
to hand over criminals in their custody who were originally
arrested by their own local law enforcement officials for
crimes. The absurdity does not stop there. Several of those
local officials pointed the finger to laws and policies that
their state governments put in place.
I invited these governors here today because, as the chief
executives of their states, they willfully ignore Federal law,
shield illegal aliens, and pass the cost of free services onto
their hardworking taxpayers. It is hard to figure out whose
side these governors are on. They shield criminals while their
own citizens pay the price.
Just a few weeks ago, Minnesota Governor Walz stood at a
commencement podium and smeared Immigration and Customs
Enforcement (ICE) agents as, ``Trump modern-day Gestapo.''
Comparing brave law enforcement officers who risked their lives
to uphold Federal law to Nazi thugs is not just wrong, it is
vile and disgusting. I can only hope this reckless remark was
not meant to incite violence. Assaults on ICE officers are
already up 400 percent compared to this time last year, and we
have witnessed repeated attempts at obstruction and assaults
against Federal law enforcement recently captured on video in
California.
Governor Hochul's sanctuary policies cost taxpayers
billions to house, feed, and provide driver's licenses for
illegal aliens while the cost to rent rises and hospitals are
overrun. Her defiance of Federal law invites crime to plague
communities across the state. Governor Pritzker faces lawsuits
for obstructing ICE as he turns cities, like Chicago, into
havens for drugs and crime. He is yet another governor
providing free care--free care--to illegal aliens that many of
his own citizens lack. These governors handcuff law enforcement
from doing their jobs, harbor predators, and call it
compassion. It is not compassion, and it is costing lives,
hurting Americans, and draining taxpayer money.
Congress must consider whether to defund every single penny
of Federal dollars going to cities and states that prioritize
criminal illegal aliens over the American people. Americans
want to return to common sense. The Trump Administration and
this Republican Congress aims to restore our safety and
sovereignty. It is past time for these governors to put America
first.
I now yield the Ranking Member Lynch for his opening
statement.
Mr. Lynch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I want to
thank our witnesses. Governor Walz, good to see you again.
Governor Pritzker, Governor Hochul, good to see you again. Ms.
Perryman. Thank you for your willingness to come before this
Committee and help us with our work.
OPENING STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER
STEPHEN F. LYNCH
REPRESENTATIVE FROM MASSACHUSSETTS
Mr. Lynch. At this very moment as we sit in this hearing
and at the order of President Trump, the National Guard are on
the streets of Los Angeles, and active-duty Marines are on
their way. At Trump's order, Californians are now forced to
navigate an active military zone in their midst as they try to
go to work or decide if it is safe to send their kids to
school. And because of Trump, no American city or state is safe
as he lays this groundwork to take his militarization playbook
nationwide. Two days ago, he confirmed that he is considering
invoking the Insurrection Act to expand the deployment of
active-duty military forces against civilians across this
country, preparing for a future in which dissent is met with
armed force, and the machinery of war is turned inward on the
American people. If unchecked, this marks not just a threat to
our most sacred civil liberties, but a violent blow to American
democracy itself.
Last week in Los Angeles, peaceful Americans came out to
protest the Administration's cruel and illegal mass deportation
operations in their neighborhoods. President Trump inflamed
events on the grounds as an excuse to unleash the U.S. military
on its own people. Sending in 4,000 National Guard members
without the approval of the Governor of California, and
deploying 700 active duty Marines into an American city is
meant to provoke, not pacify, and is an aggressive assertion of
Federal control where it is neither needed nor desired. Our
Marines are often the first responders in a war zone, but
American neighborhoods are not war zones. Protesters are not
the enemy. They are Americans who have the constitutional right
to peacefully assemble and speak up.
The problem for President Trump and my colleagues across
the aisle is that the American people hate what he is doing in
Los Angeles to inflame tensions. Americans are deeply concerned
that the President deployed Federal troops to an American city
over the objections of state and local leadership, and knowing
it would escalate the situation. He put members of the public,
law enforcement officers, and troops in danger because he loves
the images and theatrics of using force. Let us be clear:
Democrats oppose violence and lawlessness in all his forms as
well as any threat to public safety. President Trump himself is
the worst offender. The chaos he is fomenting in LA is just an
extension of his flagrant disregard for the Constitution and
our rule of law and democracy.
It is clear that the Trump Administration's mass
deportation policy is not limited to those that have committed
serious and violent crimes. It also includes children who are
U.S. citizens, immigrants with legal status, and even
international students. On February 4, President Trump deported
a 10-year-old girl, a U.S. citizen, who was recovering from
brain cancer while traveling to Houston for an emergency
hospital visit. This 10-year-old girl was detained and deported
with her undocumented parents and four siblings, three of whom
were also born here in the United States. Her parents have no
criminal history, and what is going to happen to her, an
American child, now that she can't see her expert doctors is
unknown. Trump deported another U.S. citizen, a 2-year-old
toddler from Fort Lauderdale, on February 21st, deported to
Brazil, but because she is not a citizen or resident of Brazil,
she had to enter the country as a tourist, which leaves her
unable to access key programs like pediatric care and daycare
or school. Are our cities safer now that this 10-year-old girl
and the 2-year-old toddler are gone, U.S. citizens, both of
them?
In Austin, Texas, a husband and wife were recently detained
after a routine traffic stop. The husband was quickly deported
while the wife was released to pick up her three children from
school, only to be deported with them several days later. Two
of those kids are U.S. citizens. Is the family the violent
criminals that Trump is supposed to be saving us from? The
Trump Administration has tried to sweep aside the fact that
this pattern of mass deportation operation is letting dangerous
criminals roam free while it picks off peaceful, contributing
members of our communities: busboys at restaurants, day
laborers at Home Depot, parents who are taking their kids to
school.
In late March, ICE agents wearing masks and hoodies
detained Rumeysa Ozturk, and those of you who watched that
abduction, when you compare the old films of the Gestapo
grabbing people off the streets of Poland and you compare them
to those nondescript thugs who grabbed that student, that
graduate student, it does look like a Gestapo operation. It
does look like the Gestapo. She was snatched away and detained
1,700 miles away. Her Congresswoman could not reach her. Her
family could not reach her. She was held incommunicado 1,700
miles away. Her attorney could not reach her. Yes, that was
Gestapo-like. That is an appropriate comparison. That is
exactly what it was like.
She was here legally--legally--studying at Tufts
University. She had every right to be here. We gave her
permission to come. Her family entrusted us. They chose Boston
because it is a place of intellectual freedom and respect for
cultural freedom, and that trust was apparently misplaced. Ms.
Ozturk is a Turkish national on a student visa to attend Tufts
University. A video of that incident shows Ozturk walking along
a public street in Boston, Massachusetts, my home city, when
several masked figures just snatched her phone and backpack,
handcuffed her, and hustled her into an unmarked vehicle. What
does that sound like? What does that sound like?
The Trump Administration is putting extremism, cruelty, and
chaos over protecting kids and families. Trump is not focused
on getting violent criminals off our streets. He is terrorizing
our communities to fulfill deportation quotas with fathers and
mothers, grandparents and kids, and he is trying to strong arm
our city and state leaders to divert their limited resources
away from serious public safety threats to instead focus on
peaceful, law-abiding families, just as he has diverted Federal
resources away from combating drug trafficking, violent crime,
and terrorism to fuel his lawless mass deportation campaign.
Trump is not trying to protect us, he is trying to divide
us. It is us and them. He is trying to divide us, and some
people are helping him. He is pitting neighbor against
neighbor, but it is not immigrant kids who are about to kick
millions of Americans off their healthcare. It is not them, and
he is doing that to pay for a tax break for billionaires. And
it is not immigrants who are using the military to silence
Americans exercising their right to speak truth to power. These
are not the strong and measured actions of the leader of a free
country. They are the ruthless maneuvers of an aspiring
autocrat hellbent on consolidating power by any means
necessary. This is disgraceful. It should not happen in this
country. This is wrong. Deploying the military against a
civilian population is wrong, and if we do not step up, this
will continue. If we do not step up and declare what is right
under our Constitution, then other cities, other citizens will
meet this same fate. I am proud of my Democratic colleagues who
are willing to stand up to this thuggery.
Trump is a wannabe gangster, and he is showing the world
what he is about, and I am proud. You know, my dad served in
the Second World War. He fought the Nazis in Northern Africa,
he fought the Nazis on the Italian peninsula and I think he is
looking down right now and he is happy that I am fighting
today's Nazis. He is proud of that. We all should be. Mr.
Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, Representatives Stauber,
Finstad, Fischbach, Emmer, Morrison, and Craig of Minnesota,
Representatives Miller, LaHood, Davis, and Ramirez of Illinois,
Representatives Stefanik, Tenney, Lawler, Goldman, Ocasio-
Cortez, Gillen of New York, and Moskowitz of Florida are waived
onto the Committee for the purpose of questioning the witnesses
at today's hearing.
Without objection, so ordered.
Our witnesses today include the governors of three states.
We want to welcome you all here. First, we have Tim Walz,
Governor of the State of Minnesota. He was sworn into office on
January 7, 2019. His second term began on January 2, 2023.
Governor, welcome back to the House of Representatives. Next,
we have JB Pritzker, Governor of the State of Illinois. He was
sworn into office on January 14, 2019. His second term began on
January 9, 2023. I am going to yield briefly to my colleague,
Raj Krishnamoorthi, for further introduction.
INTRODUCTION BY RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI
REPRESENTATIVE FROM ILLINOIS
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for
yielding. In Illinois, we like our pizza deep, our politics
lively, and our budgets balanced. The last one used to be a
miracle before Governor Pritzker took office. I know firsthand,
as the son of immigrants who realized the American Dream in
Illinois, that immigrants make enormous contributions to our
country. Governor Pritzker understands that, too. His great-
grandfather fled pogroms in Ukraine in 1881 and settled in
Chicago to build a better life. That legacy has shaped his
lifelong commitment to public service, justice, and
opportunity.
Before entering public office, Governor Pritzker built a
successful business career and became a leading philanthropist
supporting early childhood education and establishing the
Illinois Holocaust Museum. Governor Pritzker has delivered
historic investments in education, workforce training,
infrastructure, technology, and clean energy, all while
expanding paid leave, raising the minimum wage, and defending
the rights of all Illinoisans. Governor, thank you for your
leadership and for joining us today.
Chairman Comer. Yields back. Next, we have Kathy Hochul,
Governor of the State of New York. She was sworn into office on
August 24, 2021. Welcome, Governor. And finally, we have Skye
Perryman. She is the President and CEO of the Democracy Forward
Foundation. Thank you all for joining us. Look forward to your
discussion this afternoon.
Pursuant to Committee Rule 9(g), the witnesses will please
raise their right hand. Please stand and raise your right hand.
Do you all solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
[A chorus of ayes.]
Chairman Comer. Please let the record show that the
witnesses answered in the affirmative. Thank you all, and you
may take a seat.
We appreciate you being here today and look forward to your
testimony. Let me remind the witnesses that we have read your
written statement, and they will appear in full in the hearing
record. Please limit your oral statement to 5 minutes. As a
reminder, please press the button on the microphone in front of
you so that it is on and the Members can hear you. When you
begin to speak, the light in front of you will turn green.
After 4 minutes, the light will turn yellow. When the red light
comes on, your 5 minutes have expired, and we would ask that
you please wrap up.
I now recognize Governor Walz for his opening statement.
STATEMENT OF TIM WALZ
GOVERNOR, MINNESOTA
Governor Walz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member
Lynch, and Members of the Committee. I am proud to be here
today as the Governor of the great State of Minnesota.
Wherever you go in this country, people tend to want the
same basic things: safe neighborhoods, affordable household
goods, meaningful work, good schools. That is what my
administration has worked to ensure for our people, and that is
what we have delivered. Under our leadership, Minnesota has
been ranked the fourth best state to live in, the second best
state to raise a family in, and the third best state for jobs.
When it comes to serious crime, Minnesota has hit its lowest
level in over three decades, and we consistently have lower
violent crime rates than the U.S. average.
Now, we have a broken immigration system in this country. I
think everyone in this room agrees with that, but nothing
Minnesota has done to serve its own people stands in the way of
the Federal Government managing border security and policies.
While you have convened this hearing to explore the issue of
so-called sanctuary states, Minnesota is not even a sanctuary
state. The Minnesota legislature has passed no such bill making
Minnesota a sanctuary state, and I have signed no such law.
Minnesota cooperates with Federal authorities in a number
of ways. When there is a convicted felon in our prisons, we ask
about their immigration status and share that information with
the Department of Homeland Security. We also cooperate with
Homeland Security requests when there is a judicial warrant and
when due process, as been afforded by our Constitution, has
been served. But enforcing immigration law is not the role of
local and state governments. The fact is Congress has given
Federal agencies the authority to enforce immigration laws
across this country. That includes Minnesota, and I support
them doing so. It is the Federal Government's job to secure the
border. That is why when I was in Congress, I visited the
Southern border and voted for bills that would have increased
funding for Border Patrol, made it easier to hire qualified
agents, and deployed advanced technologies to the border.
Most importantly, I recognize that securing our border does
not mean we sacrifice our constitutional values. Unfortunately,
the cruel and misguided policies of this current Administration
fail to live up to those values. Minnesotans are angry with
what they have seen happen to their neighbors. They are angry
that the Federal Government has been snatching people up,
putting them in prison, and deporting them without a shred of
due process. There has been no notice, no meaningful
opportunity to object, and, according to the President, no way
to get out of these overseas prisons once you end up there. And
let us be clear: many of these are law-abiding Americans,
people who have been granted asylum or promised protected
status. In many cases, it seems these people were deported not
based on criminal behavior but how they looked or what they
have said, and being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Even
U.S. citizens, like a 4-year-old boy with cancer, sent to
Mexico away from his father, away from the medical needs to a
country he was not born in or had never been to.
Americans deserve a sensible, humane, and effective
immigration policy that reduces illegal immigration while
protecting fundamental rights. Meanwhile, the Administration
continues to make life worse for hardworking Americans in a lot
of other ways, trying to slash Medicaid, Social Security,
Medicare, making basic household goods more expensive and
telling people they just need to do much more with less. The
American people deserve better. You all have the power to
legislate, to investigate this Administration's abuse and
overreach, and protect the American people, and I have to say I
am disappointed. At a crucial inflection point in our Nation's
history, Congress is choosing to spend its time trying to cast
blame on states like Minnesota that have no hand in creating
this crisis. While we may disagree on the best way to maintain
border security and public safety, I know we should all be able
to agree on a few principles: that everyone in America deserves
due process, and that we live in a free country where people
should not be locked up for exercising their basic
constitutional rights.
I hope you will join me in enforcing accountability to
those fundamental ideas, and I look forward to your questions.
I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Comer. I now recognize Governor Pritzker for his
opening statement.
STATEMENT OF JB PRITZKER
GOVERNOR, ILLINOIS
Governor Pritzker. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, Members of
the Committee, good morning, and thank you for inviting me. As
Governor of the great State of Illinois, I have seen firsthand
how states have had to shoulder the consequences of a broken
immigration system. I am proud of how we have responded by
promoting public safety, treating people with dignity,
supporting our economy, and respecting the rule of law.
Safe and compassionate immigration policies, I believe, are
vital. In fact, my own family owes everything to this country
accepting a young refugee named Nicholas Pritzker to its shores
over a century ago. My great-grandfather fled the massacre of
Jews in Ukraine and arrived in the United States when he was
just ten without a penny to his name. A social service agency
provided him a place to live. A public school taught him
English. A public university allowed him to pursue a higher
education. My father and grandfather both were naval officers
and raised their families with a powerful sense of duty to
community and patriotism to our country that still lives deep
in my generation. Both were successful entrepreneurs. My
family's story is not unique. Today, Illinois is home to 1.9
million immigrants. Just like my great-grandfather, they are
hard-working, raising families, and paying taxes. Our state and
our country have been strengthened by people from across the
globe seeking freedom, opportunity, and refuge here.
Recently, children, pregnant women, and others fled
poverty, violence, and persecution, seeking asylum at our
border. Some border state politicians chose to treat them as
political pawns, bussing them to states like mine and dropping
them off in the dead of night in the freezing cold. Illinois
chose a different path. Faced with a humanitarian crisis, our
state made sure children and families did not go hungry or
freeze to death. By doing so, we helped to maintain safety and
order in Chicago.
As Governor, one of my responsibilities is to keep the
public safe. That is why I expanded our state police, banned
assault weapons and ghost guns to take guns out of the hands of
criminals, and invested more than ever before in violence
prevention. As a result, violent crime is down in Illinois, and
Chicago ended 2024 with its lowest homicide rate in five years.
As I have consistently said, violent criminals have no place on
our streets and if they are undocumented, I want them out of
Illinois and out of our country.
And as we are reminded in Los Angeles this week, we can all
agree that violence of any kind, whomever it is directed at, is
unacceptable. People must be held accountable to the law.
Illinois follows the law, but let me be clear: we expect the
Federal Government to follow the law, too. We will not
participate in abuses of power. We will not violate court
orders. We will not ignore the Constitution. We will not defy
the Supreme Court. We will not take away people's rights to
peacefully protest.
We also respect, and expect this Administration to respect,
the traditions and legal precedent that dictate how and when
our national guard and military are deployed. As Governor, I
have had to make the difficult decision to call the Illinois
National Guard into service. I have always done it in
partnership with my local governments and law enforcement and
with deep and abiding respect for the sacrifice I was asking of
our volunteer armed forces. It is wrong to deploy the national
guard and active-duty Marines into an American city over the
objection of local law enforcement just to inflame a situation
and create a crisis, just as it is wrong to tear children away
from their homes and their mothers and fathers, who have spent
decades living and working in our communities raising their
families.
Besides being a father and husband, the greatest honor of
my life has been serving as Governor. I believe with my whole
heart that Illinois is the best place in the country to live,
work, and to raise a family. Illinoisans take seriously their
responsibility in upholding the most fundamental values of our
Nation, values like kindness, empathy, hard work, and fair
play. Our people embody the most American ideal of all, that
where your life began matters far less than the dreams you can
realize here for yourself and your family. Thank you very much,
Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Governor Hochul for
her opening statement.
STATEMENT OF KATHY HOCHUL
GOVERNOR, NEW YORK
Governor Hochul. Chairman Comer, Ranking Member Lynch, and
Members of this Committee, as we speak, an American city has
been militarized over the objections of their Governor. At the
outset, I just want to say that this is a flagrant abuse of
power and nothing short of an assault on our American values.
My views on immigration are simple and direct. Our Nation
needs secure borders, our Nation needs comprehensive
immigration reform from this body, and our state laws dictate
that we cooperate with ICE in criminal cases, and our values
dictate that we treat all law-abiding people with dignity and
respect. The America I believe in is a Nation of laws and a
Nation of immigrants. Abandoning either threatens the very
foundation on which this great country was built.
For 400 years, New York has prospered because of the hard
work of these people, these newcomers, people like my
grandfather who fled great poverty in Ireland. Grandma and
Grandpa had the same American Dream that the immigrants today
have. I see it in their eyes. They are not here for handouts.
They are not here to take advantage of the situation. They are
here to work. They want to contribute, or earn their place,
raise their families, yet every day there is another story of
children being ripped from the arms of their mothers, wives
separated from their husbands, families arrested while
attending legal immigration appointments.
Not long ago, in a small town known as Sacketts Harbor in
upstate New York, masked and armed ICE agents stormed into a
home before dawn. They abducted a mother, her three children,
including a third grader. They were cast into a living hell in
a detention facility in Texas. I immediately contacted border
czar, Tom Homan, and demanded their release. In Jefferson
County, more than 60 percent of the residents voted for Donald
Trump, and those people protested in the streets. Local
Republican lawmakers, business owners, school leaders all spoke
out. Finally, after two long weeks, the family was finally
returned home. In New York, we understand the difference
between going after criminals and traumatizing law-abiding
families.
Now, some of you will use this hearing to stoke fear. I am
here to talk about the facts. New York has managed an
unprecedented immigrant influx because of a broken border, yet,
at the same time, our state has become stronger and safer.
Today, New York has the lowest homicide rate among the Nation's
top ten states. We did not achieve this with indiscriminate
roundups, not by tearing apart innocent families, but by
investing $2.6 billion in public safety, engaging in smart,
targeted policing, and partnering with Federal law enforcement
to apprehend and deport serious criminals. And since I have
become Governor, we have cooperated in handing over 1,300
convicted criminals to ICE, but what we do not do is civil
immigration enforcement. That is the Federal Government's job.
New Yorkers need their state troopers on our highways, seizing
guns and drugs.
States like mine are doing our part, but we cannot be
expected to fix the broken immigration system. The very people
who go on cable news and rail about the border are the same
ones who torpedo bipartisan legislation each and every time.
So, here is my message: if you truly care about public safety,
if you truly care about the economy, if you truly care about
human dignity, then sit down, negotiate, have real reform,
secure the border, revive legal pathways, and let people work.
At the end of the day, I will go home and do my job keeping New
Yorkers safe. I hope that you will do yours. Thank you.
Chairman Comer. And I now recognize the Democrat witness,
Ms. Perryman, for her opening statement.
STATEMENT OF SKYE PERRYMAN (MINORITY WITNESS)
PRESIDENT AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER
DEMOCRACY FORWARD FOUNDATION
Ms. Perryman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Acting Ranking
Member, for having me here today, and at the outset, let me
offer my sincerest condolences to all of you for the passing
and your loss of your colleague, Representative Gerry Connolly.
I am here today as a lawyer and as the president and CEO of
Democracy Forward Foundation, which is a national nonpartisan
legal organization that is committed to achieving democracy and
a Nation that enables all people to thrive. At Democracy
Forward, we represent people and communities who make up the
very fabric of our Nation on a pro bono basis, in Federal and
state courts, and regulatory bodies throughout the country. I
know this is a hearing focused on immigration and so I would
like to say at the outset and echo the calls for bipartisan
comprehensive immigration reform. I will also note that the
rhetoric that we have heard the President and his allies use in
recent days about immigrants and people in this country is
inaccurate, overly politicized, and not solutions oriented.
Fundamentally, Democracy Forward Foundation's work centers
on the premise that when the government does its job and
delivers for people, our society is stronger, and when our
government strays from that purpose, ignoring the Constitution,
not achieving and respecting the fidelity of people's rights,
our democracy and our people are in danger. Right now, based on
the work that we are doing, I am here to say that our American
people are in danger and that our democracy is in crisis. I am
looking at these United States flags. We need to remember who
we are. We, right now, have a President who has proclaimed,
without irony, that he is a king in a Nation that next year
will celebrate 250 years since it threw off the reins of
monarchy.
Since Inauguration Day, the President and his
Administration have acted beyond the lawful bounds of executive
authority. They have usurped the power of this Congress. They
have sought to eliminate due process of law. They have ignored
court orders, and they are targeting people, civil society
organizations, and lawyers. These are anti-democratic actions
that present an overall threat to every single American and
their well-being and to our values in America. That is why at
Democracy Forward Foundation, we have had to go to court to
file more than 70 legal actions in Federal and state courts and
agencies and offices since Inauguration Day to protect the
American people's rights.
From stopping the President's Federal funding freeze, to
blocking the decimation of the Department of Education, to
having to safeguard due process, to challenging The Department
of Government Efficiency (DOGE) and Elon Musk's attempts to
access personal data on behalf of individual Americans, our
team is in court every single day on behalf of people of all
identities and ideologies, people in red states and blue
states, people in small towns, urban areas, and rural
communities. Our work at Democracy Forward demonstrates that
the United States' Constitution is still here, and it is here
for all of us.
This Administration's tactics with regard to immigration
enforcement that we have seen, they shock the conscience. The
shock the conscience of the vast majority of the American
people, including people who do not see eye-to-eye on how to
fix our immigration problem in this country. They have led us
to file and have to file litigation on behalf of religious
communities to prevent ICE from entering houses of worship. We
are litigating against policies that prolong the detention of
individual immigrant children without their families, and, of
course, we are challenging the lack of due process afforded to
our clients: men who were disappeared through an unlawful
agreement between the Government of El Salvador and the United
States Department of State. All told the courts have ruled
against the current Administration more than 170 times in less
than 200 days because of the fast-moving harms and flagrant
violations of the law and of our Constitution. And while this
is a dire situation, our work demonstrates that the American
people are determined to protect their rights. They are
determined to use lawful and peaceful means of petitioning
their government and, when necessary, of holding their
government accountable.
People have talked about their families, and last week was
June 6, which is, of course, the anniversary of when American
troops landed on the beaches of Normandy in World War II. I,
too, am the mother of a 9-year-old boy, and that 9-year-old
boy's great-grandfather served in that battle and many others
throughout the European theater, but as I reflected last week,
we do not need to be in Normandy to defend our democracy in
June 2025. We need to be here in these halls doing the work in
courts across the country and in our communities, and we do
need to remember the essential and historical commitment that
our Nation made at the end of that war to advance democracy and
to ensure that we never turn our backs on people who are
fleeing persecution.
I so appreciate you inviting me here today to participate
in this hearing, and it is with a sincere hope that we can come
together that I offer my testimony and comments.
Chairman Comer. All right. Opening statements have
concluded. We are now going to begin the questioning portion of
today's testimony, and I am going to begin with Governor Walz.
Governor Walz, I thought that maybe your statement
referencing ICE as Gestapo was an outlier statement, but now
that Mr. Lynch has endorsed it, it appears that it could be
some type of Democrat talking point. Governor, do you and other
Democrat politicians understand why referencing ICE as Gestapo
is offensive? I am going to explain.
The Department of Homeland Security is reporting that ICE
agents are now experiencing a 413-percent rise in assaults. We
have seen numerous videos of rioters obstructing and assaulting
Federal law enforcement after your remarks, including in Los
Angeles. So, Governor, do you think that comments like that and
rhetoric like that put ICE officers and other law enforcement
in greater danger?
Governor Walz. Well, thank you for the question, Mr.
Chairman. First and foremost, any attack on law enforcement is
unacceptable wherever it is at, whether it is state, local----
Chairman Comer. So, you understand that I have got limited
time here. I want to highlight for the governors the real-world
impact of the policies that you all continue to defend, even in
your opening statements, have on American families.
Earlier this year, in Governor Pritzker's Illinois, a
previously deported illegal alien who had reentered the
country, was allegedly drunk driving near the University of
Illinois when he struck a car sitting at a red light and then
fled the scene. The crash killed two young women, including
Katie Abraham, whose father and stepmother are here today, and
this is her poster.
Katie had her whole life ahead of her cutoff in an instant.
Governor Pritzker, this illegal alien should never have been
here. He did not just flee the scene. He fled the state and was
apprehended by Federal marshals in Texas using a false name. He
now faces criminal charges for reckless homicide, leaving the
scene of an accident resulting in death, and driving under the
influence resulting in death, and he faces a Federal indictment
for having a fraudulent permanent resident card, a fraudulent
Social Security card, and a fraudulent use of passport.
Governor Pritzker, do you agree that this illegal alien who
killed Katie should never have been in the United States in the
first place?
Governor Pritzker. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First, let me
express my condolences to the family. Those are terrible
circumstances. Let me also say that anyone who commits a crime
in the State of Illinois----
Chairman Comer. I understand, Governor. Should that
criminal have been here in the first place? Did he have a right
to be in this country illegally?
Governor Pritzker. If the person is a criminal of any sort,
then they ought to be----
Chairman Comer. So, that person had a right to be----
Governor Pritzker. They ought to be arrested. They ought to
be----
Chairman Comer [continuing]. In the United States.
Governor Pritzker. They ought to be given their due process
rights, and they ought to be convicted, and----
Chairman Comer. The criminal who----
Governor Pritzker. Yes.
Chairman Comer [continuing]. Entered this country
illegally, in your testimony, had a right to be in this
country?
Governor Pritzker. No, I am suggesting to you that, and I
have responsibility for the State of Illinois, I can tell you
that it is the responsibility of the Federal Government to
manage immigration in this country. And if you are suggesting
that the Federal Government did not do its job, that is up to
you to determine.
Chairman Comer. Let me ask you this, Governor.
Governor Pritzker. I can tell you that in the State of
Illinois----
Chairman Comer. Do you believe that----
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. We follow the law.
Chairman Comer. Do you believe that law President Biden did
his job in securing the border?
Governor Pritzker. I was critical of things that President
Biden did. I think I have been very public about that. I wrote
a letter to the President telling him that.
Chairman Comer. Okay. Thank you. Now back to Governor Walz.
You were obviously selected by Vice President Harris to be her
running mate in 2024. I am curious. Did you ever ask Vice
President Harris about former President Biden's and then-
President Biden's cognitive decline?
Governor Walz. No, not that I can recall, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Comer. You saw President Biden's disastrous debate
performance. I am just curious. You never did comment to Vice
President Harris, like, wow, he may not be on the top of his
game? Nothing was ever mentioned to Vice President Harris, and
the reason I ask, obviously, is because I know you watch CNN,
and other networks have interviewed a lot of people, including
Jean-Pierre and Buttigieg and others, that have suggested that
they were shielded from President Biden and were not allowed to
speak to him and that his mental decline was obvious. You never
discussed that with Vice President Harris?
Governor Walz. No, not that I can recall, Chairman, and as
governor and then being on the ticket, I was probably more
concerned with my own debate performance than President
Biden's, so, no.
Chairman Comer. Let me ask you this, Governor. Do you
believe that the Biden-Harris Administration secured the
border? You mentioned it is the Federal Government's role to
secure the border to protect Americans from illegals entering
the country, I guess. Do you think they did a good job of that?
Governor Walz. I think the border has been broken for a
very long time through many administrations. It is one of the
reasons why Vice President Harris was advocating so strongly
for the bipartisan bill that----
Chairman Comer. Did she mention her role as the border czar
any when you all were out campaigning?
Governor Walz. Not that I can recall, other than we talked
about the need to pass the bipartisan border legislation that
would have done many of the things that, as a governor, I know
would have made our jobs easier.
Chairman Comer. But President Trump secured the border
without any legislation. I mean, that was kind of a myth that
was in the media and a Democrat talking point that we needed
legislation to secure the border. The border is secure.
Governor Walz. Everything is fixed?
Chairman Comer. That is step one. Step two is to deport the
criminal illegals, and that is where we are facing obstruction
in your all's states, so I am sure there are a lot more
questions that will pertain to that. My time has expired. I now
recognize Ranking Member Lynch for his questions.
Mr. Lynch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is worth saying
again that Democrats oppose violence and lawlessness in all its
forms. I do want to point out that the vast, vast majority of
protestors have been peaceful, but the most egregious and
sweeping displays of the use of force and lawlessness we see in
the United States today and the gravest threat to the rights
and freedoms of those that we hold dear are the acts of the
Trump Administration itself.
President Trump and his Administration have crossed the
line over and over again, from January 6 when this building was
attacked at his direction, to invoking the Alien Enemies Act,
to dismantling The United States Agency for International
Development (USAID), to ignoring court orders, to attacks and
threats against law firms that were protecting democracy. In
the five months since Trump took office and put the ``for
sale'' sign over the White House, he has earned $2.9 billion on
his crypto scam. I mean, to call this unprecedented, that word
has lost all its meaning. He keeps making history but the wrong
kind. Just the act of sending the National Guard and troops and
active-duty Marines to LA was already an overreach. Now, we
hear reports that those soldiers and marines were sent to quell
protests but now are detaining civilians and are being trained
to perform immigration enforcement functions.
Ms. Perryman, what else could go wrong with the National
Guard and Marines deployed in LA? What are the risks of the
Americans who live, work, and exercise their right to freedom
and to free speech there?
Ms. Perryman. Well, I would just say that what our
Constitution recognizes and how good government functions is
really based on trust. And when we look at national guards, it
is the governors that often call the national guards in. And
so, of course, the fact that we are seeing a situation where
the President has taken this step without cooperating with the
governor and with local communities there is deeply concerning,
and, of course, we know from history that could lead to
escalations and could lead to violence that is really
problematic for all of our communities across the country,
including in Los Angeles.
Mr. Lynch. Thank you. Ms. Perryman, Secretary of Defense,
Pete Hegseth, has talked about the deployment order, and he
testified that, ``This order is getting ahead of a problem so
that if there are other riots in places where law enforcement
officers are threatened, we would have the capability to surge
the National Guard there if necessary.'' Ms. Perryman, how does
the President's broad order and the presumption--the
presumption--before the fact, that military force would be
deployed, how does that pose a threat to other cities across
the country?
Ms. Perryman. Well, again, it appears to be an escalation,
and the main thing that is really important to so many
Americans across the country as well as local law enforcement
in so many areas, that local law enforcement is there to help
people be able to peacefully protest. And so, there are ways
that people in this country can express their views. We do not
all agree with each other, and right now, you really see the
White House, for whatever reason, I think escalating, maybe
seeking to create some made-for-TV moments. It is not clear,
but I do think that there is a lot at stake here as you have
heard this morning.
Mr. Lynch. Thank you. I want to ask each of the governors--
this is a general question--could each of the governors answer
briefly how President Trump's policies, his assaults on the
rule of law, and his interjection of military force into
California, how that would threaten your states, especially
where Secretary Hegseth has said that he would support that
expansion. Mr. Walz? Governor?
Governor Walz. Well, thank you, Ranking Member Lynch. Well,
first of all, the federalism policy of this, especially when it
comes to Posse Comitatus and the Insurrection Act, governors
are in charge. Our National Guard, as all of you know, serve in
either Title 10 or Title 32 status under the role of governor,
and on all of these operations, the absolute pinnacle and the
most critical piece is the coordination amongst them. And as a
governor not being notified as local law enforcement, it
creates a chaotic situation that they cannot operate as a joint
unit. And governors are always there--we do it for floods, we
do it for civil unrest--but doing it without causes immense
danger, not citizens, too, but to those very law enforcement
officers who are then put in that chaotic situation.
Mr. Lynch. Thank you. Governor Pritzker?
Governor Pritzker. Local law enforcement are the ones who
indicate to the governor or to their local officials who talk
to the governor about their need for National Guard. And
indeed, I have had that situation in the State of Illinois and
called out the Guard when I needed to. I am careful about when
I do it, but again, when local law enforcement indicate that
they want that backup or they need that support, we do it. Now,
I have to say when the President of the United States is
calling out your National Guard over the top of local law
enforcement----
Mr. Lynch. Right.
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. Saying that they do not
need it, that they have things under control, it tends to have
an inflaming effect on what is going on, on the ground, just
when local law enforcement and officials are getting things
under control, and I think that is what we saw in Los Angeles.
Mr. Lynch. Governor Hochul?
Governor Hochul. Those actions absolutely undermine the
sovereignty of individual states. States' governors are the
commanders-in-chief of the National Guard. They know what to
do. As you have heard from my colleagues, we have deployed them
in a number of occasions. But undermining confidence in local
law enforcement, you are basically saying that there is not a
belief that the highly trained individuals of our municipal
police departments, like Los Angeles and the city of New York,
for example, can handle their jobs? I have more confidence in
our law enforcement then perhaps the President does----
Chairman Comer. Thank you.
Governor Hochul. [continuing]. And we ought to step back
and say, this is an overreach of epic proportions.
Chairman Comer. Thank you. The Chair recognizes----
Mr. Lynch. Thank you for your courtesy on the time.
Appreciate that. Thank you.
Chairman Comer. Yep. The Chair recognizes Ms. Stefanik from
New York.
Ms. Stefanik. Thank you. Governor Hochul, on your first day
in office, you signed Executive Order 1. Is that correct?
Governor Hochul. I believe it is.
Ms. Stefanik. And you extended this executive order not
once, not twice, but three times, most recently, January 16
this year. Is that correct?
Governor Hochul. If that is what your facts show. I signed
countless executive orders and policies and laws.
Ms. Stefanik. I would assume you would know it is Executive
Order 1, and this is a continuation of your predecessor's
sanctuary state policies, correct? Is included in that?
Governor Hochul. I want to be sure we are defining
``sanctuary state'' properly.
Ms. Stefanik. I will define it for you. It is the policy of
the state that, ``state officers or employees shall not
disclose information to Federal immigration authorities for the
purpose of Federal civil immigration enforcement.'' It goes on
to say, ``Law enforcement officers may not use resources,
equipment, or personnel for the purpose of detecting and
apprehending any individual suspected or wanted for violating a
civil immigration office. Law enforcement officers have no
authority in the State of New York to take any policy action
solely because the person is an undocumented alien.'' That is a
quote in your executive orders that you extended. Now, do you
know who Sakir Akkan is?
Governor Hochul. I want to get back to the first part of
the question.
Ms. Stefanik. No, I am asking a question.
Governor Hochul. Well----
Ms. Stefanik. Do you know who secure Sakir Akkan is?
Governor Hochul. I want to make sure you understand that
this simply says that we will cooperate with ICE in all----
Ms. Stefanik. No, it does not say that. I read what it
says----
Governor Hochul. We will----
Ms. Stefanik [continuing]. And let me talk to you about the
results. Do you know who Sakir Akkan is? You should as the
Governor of New York State. Do you know?
Governor Hochul. Refresh my recollection.
Ms. Stefanik. He was an illegal migrant in New York, and do
you know what crime he committed in addition to being here
illegally?
Governor Hochul. No, I do not.
Ms. Stefanik. You do not. This was widely reported. He
found a 15-year-old girl, threatened her with a metal pole,
told her to get into the backseat of his car. He took her
clothes off, and he violently raped her in Albany, New York. Do
you know who Sebastian Zapeta-Calil is?
Governor Hochul. I am sure you will tell me. There are many
cases whether they are----
Ms. Stefanik. These are high-profile cases. New Yorkers
know about them, and you do not? So, let us talk about
Sebastian Zapeta-Calil. Do you know who that is?
Governor Hochul. I do not have the specific details at my
disposal, no.
Ms. Stefanik. Well, this is an illegal migrant in New York
because of your sanctuary state policies. Do you know what
crime he committed?
Governor Hochul. I am not familiar at this moment.
Ms. Stefanik. I bet you are going to be familiar when I
remind you. He found a sleeping woman on the subway, lit her on
fire, and burned her alive. This is in Kathy Hochul's New York,
and, as I am sure you are aware, and I will remind you, that
ICE issued an order to detain this violent criminal, but that
was rejected by New York officials due to sanctuary state laws.
Now, do you know who Raymond Rojas Basilio is?
Governor Hochul. I just want to say this. These crimes are
horrific.
Ms. Stefanik. Because of your----
Governor Hochul. I condemn them, and I would say----
Ms. Stefanik. Because of your sanctuary state policies.
Governor Hochul. [continuing]. In all of these cases, we
worked with ICE to remove them----
Ms. Stefanik. You did not in this case.
Governor Hochul. [continuing]. If they need our assistance.
Ms. Stefanik. They are walking on the streets because of
your policies in your executive order that you signed three
times. Now, Raymond Rojas Basilio, do you know who that is?
Governor Hochul. I am telling you this.
Ms. Stefanik. You do not know who it is?
Governor Hochul. I will explain the policies of New York.
Ms. Stefanik. You do not----
Governor Hochul. I know you are just trying to----
Ms. Stefanik. Specifically, ICE was told not to detain this
individual, and he burned a woman alive on the New York Subways
in Kathy Hochul's New York, so I will keep on going. What about
Raymond Rojas Basilio? Do you know who that is?
Governor Hochul. I am going to tell you our overall policy,
which will address all this. We do not----
Ms. Stefanik. I will tell you who that is. He is an illegal
who molested an 11-year-old in our state because, again, of
your sanctuary state policies. This illegal was shielded from
Federal immigration enforcement and able to commit this heinous
crime. And what about Wilson Castillo Diaz? Do you know who
that is?
Governor Hochul. I am telling you this. We do cooperate
fully with ICE in criminal prosecutions. Our sanctuary
regulations only deal with civil enforcement.
Ms. Stefanik. You are not advocating for these victims.
This is a 5-year-old who was raped----
Governor Hochul. Civil enforcement.
Ms. Stefanik [continuing]. On Long Island in Nassau County.
You are not advocating on behalf of these victims. You are
shielding illegals. Even in your opening statement.
Governor Hochul. That is not true.
Ms. Stefanik. You prioritized putting illegals first.
Governor Hochul. That is not true.
Ms. Stefanik. Rapes of young girls, beatings of New York
City Police Department (NYPD) cops by illegals who are here
under Kathy Hochul's failed policies, burning New Yorkers
alive. This is Kathy Hochul's New York. It is one of the many
reasons why you are hemorrhaging support from hard-working New
York families.
Governor Hochul. These are horrific crimes, and they are
heartbreaking.
Ms. Stefanik. They are horrific crimes that are committed
on your watch. You signed this executive order on your first
day in office. You signed it again and again this January. We
deserve a governor who stands up for law-abiding New Yorkers,
does not put illegals first, but actually puts New Yorkers
first. I appreciate the Chairman's----
Governor Hochul. Rather than going after the viral moment,
I suggest you look at facts.
Ms. Stefanik. No, no, no, I am standing up for New Yorkers.
Governor Hochul. No.
Ms. Stefanik. Rather than addressing the illegals in New
York, you are prioritizing your far-left sanctuary state
policies, which you put in place with executive orders. Instead
of advocating----
Governor Hochul. We cooperate in all those cases.
Ms. Stefanik [continuing]. For victims. A 5-year-old who
was raped.
Governor Hochul. We cooperate with ICE.
Ms. Stefanik. You did not. They were released----
Governor Hochul. We cooperate with ICE.
Ms. Stefanik [continuing]. Because of sanctuary state
policies in New York State.
Governor Hochul. We cooperate with law enforcement.
Ms. Stefanik. No amount of words is going to clean up your
failed record and these horrific crimes committed in a
sanctuary state that you created, and with that, I yield back.
Governor Hochul. Your representation of facts is absolutely
false.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady yields back.
Governor Hochul. Absolutely false.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Ms. Norton from
Washington, D.C.
Ms. Norton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let us be real. Since
the start of the Trump Administration, each day has been more
nightmarish than the last. But in the past few days and weeks,
we have seen a significant escalation of Trump's mass
deportation agenda. On May 29, a 9-year-old child and his
father were reportedly detained in Torrence, California, and
separated from one another by ICE. A fourth grader ripped from
the only community he knows and from the arms of his father. We
have kids who are afraid to go to school, afraid that ICE will
grab them and their families from school grounds, and afraid
their parents will not be there when they get home. Schools are
supposed to be safe havens for our children that foster
learning and growth. Instead, the Trump Administration is
deliberately weaponizing them, terrorizing children and
families with its immigration policies, and threatening more
than 600,000 students, kids, with detention and removal.
President Trump has called for an end to birthright
citizenship, a constitutional right recognized since the end of
slavery. He has cut Federal contracts that give 2-year-olds
representation in immigration court. He has ripped the children
who are immigrants and U.S. citizens from schools, their
friends, their neighborhoods, and their homes. There is no
other way to spin this. President Trump is waging a cruel and
deliberate war against children. Ms. Perryman, do all children
residing in the United States have a constitutional right to
attend public schools regardless of immigration status?
Ms. Perryman. They do.
Ms. Norton. Ms. Perryman, how is President Trump going
further than past Presidents in authorizing ICE to carry out
enforcement activities in schools, hospitals, and places of
worship?
Ms. Perryman. Yes. I mean, this is what brought us to court
on behalf of the Baptists and the Quakers and the Sikh
communities and other religious communities that are having to
challenge this. For more than 30 years, the country had a
policy that prevented indiscriminate enforcement activities at
what we call sensitive locations--that includes houses of
worship and it includes schools. We saw, in the early days of
this Administration, the Department of Homeland Security
rescind that policy and endanger people, all people, not just
immigrants, but people who are seeking to engage in communal
worship, people who are seeking to go to school and to be
present in other sensitive locations like hospitals.
Ms. Norton. Governor Walz, what does it mean for children
in Minnesota if ICE comes to their classrooms?
Governor Walz. Well, thank you, Congresswoman. Minnesota
prioritizes education. We are proud of our education system. We
are proud that when students come to school, they get a good
meal, they have well-qualified teachers, and it is a place
where it is safe. It is a safe place where they can learn. We
prioritize it because our economy depends upon it, and it is
the right thing to do. Disruptions at places like schools--when
ICE is free to operate in Minnesota within the laws, but to
disrupt schools, to disrupt and come to those schools, not only
the impact to that individual student, but to the entire
learning environment in those schools are disrupted by it. And
again, we agree with everyone here: those committing crimes is
where we need to focus, but being on campuses in elementary
schools is not getting at that.
Ms. Norton. Thank you. Governor Pritzker, when ICE detains
and arrests parents as they drop off kids at school, how does
this affect educational outcomes?
Governor Pritzker. Thank you very much, Congresswoman. Let
me begin by saying that, as you may know, under President
Trump, ICE showed up in Chicago nearly immediately and began
terrorizing our neighborhoods, our schools, and parents.
Indeed, many parents felt like they needed to go into hiding
even though their children needed to go to school every day.
And so, disrupting that environment, frankly, not just for the
children but for the parents and for teachers and the entire
school community, it is something that, you know, we believe in
Illinois in educating all of our kids, making sure that they
get what they need in our public schools. In fact, we have
invested significantly in making sure the results have been
very good. Eighth graders in Illinois rank second in reading in
the entire country, eighth graders in Illinois rank fifth in
the country in mathematics, and it is because we have a safe
environment, but not when Tom Homan brings Dr. Phil with the
overreach of force with ICE to disrupt our education system
and, particularly, our elementary schools.
Chairman Comer. Thank you. The gentlelady's time has
expired. The Chair recognizes the Majority Whip, Mr. Emmer from
Minnesota.
Mr. Mfume. Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Emmer. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Welcome back to
Washington, Governor. I am going to run through a series of
facts before I get to my questions, so let us get started.
Governor Walz, you signed the health and human services
omnibus bill into law in May 2023. That bill expanded Minnesota
care to provide free healthcare to illegal aliens. You signed
the higher education omnibus bill into law in May 2023. That
bill allows illegals to have their college tuition paid for by
the state. You signed the Driver's License for All Act into law
in March 2023, and that bill allows illegals to receive
driver's licenses. So, you claim you are not a sanctuary state.
You just provide free healthcare, free college, and driver's
licenses to illegal aliens.
One reason you are here testifying before us today is
because you refuse to cooperate with ICE. While states like
Florida and Virginia empower their law enforcement to detain
and remove criminal illegal aliens, you, sir, have done just
the opposite. Your attorney general is directing law
enforcement to ignore ICE immigration detainers. Do you agree
with the attorney general's guidance?
Governor Walz. Well, Congressman, it is good to see you
again, and thank you for being here. First, I would say, is my
job as Governor of Minnesota is to make Minnesota the best
state in the Nation.
Mr. Emmer. Do you agree with the attorney general's
guidance?
Governor Walz. Congressman, what I would say on this, is
that Minnesota follows all law. I would say----
Mr. Emmer. Sir, it is a very easy question. If you claim
that you are not a sanctuary state, I guess, you just claim
that you are not a sanctuary state, but you support policies
that prevent ICE from doing their job.
Governor Walz. Congressman, that----
Mr. Emmer. Isn't that right?
Governor Walz. That is incorrect, Congressman. We follow
the same laws when you were in the Minnesota House.
Mr. Emmer. Well, sir----
Governor Walz. The law has not changed, sir.
Mr. Emmer. Sir, if you will allow me. I have got limited
time. Well, that is what you tweeted, by the way, sir. On May
23, 2018, you tweeted, ``I support policies that keep law
enforcement from enforcing Federal laws.'' On May 17, just this
spring, at the University of Minnesota Law School's
commencement ceremony, you said, ``Donald Trump's modern-day
Gestapo is scooping folks up off the streets.'' When you said
the words, ``modern-day Gestapo,'' you were referring to ICE
agents. Gestapo, by the way, sir, was the official secret
police of Hitler's Nazi Germany. So, you are calling ICE agents
modern day Nazis. Given the attacks on ICE agents that took
place in Los Angeles over the weekend, don't you regard your
dangerous inflammatory rhetoric is a problem?
Governor Walz. Which of the questions do you want me to
answer first?
Mr. Emmer. So, sir, it saddens me that you refuse to
express regret from comparing ICE to Nazis. ICE agents are
brave Americans who get up every morning, leave their families,
and put their lives in harm's way to protect our country, sir.
You, at the very least, owe an apology to these dedicated
public servants. I will say, sir, inflammatory rhetoric, such
as yours and the other governors on this panel, is responsible
for putting a target on the back of every ICE agent who is
risking their life to protect our communities.
Minnesota is all too familiar, by the way, with the chaos
that ensues when you refuse to work with law enforcement to
enforce the law. In May 2020, looting, acts of violence, and
arson occurred on your watch in Minneapolis after you refused
to bring in the National Guard. Governor, your agenda is clear:
free healthcare, free college and driver's licenses for
illegals, while handcuffing law enforcement when they are
trying to protect our citizens and their communities. If you
think that is not a sanctuary state, you should not be
governor. By turning Minnesota into a magnet for illegals, you
have opened up our communities to dangerous criminals,
including known terrorists, gang members, murderers, and child
predators. You have sent a resounding message that if you are a
hard-working, law-abiding citizen of Minnesota, your safety and
well-being are not the priorities of Tim Walz and his
administration. But if you are coming to our state illegally,
you are not only welcome with open arms, you are entitled to
free stuff on the taxpayer's dime. This is absolutely
disgraceful.
Governor Walz, your sanctuary state agenda has been defined
by your utter failure. You have failed to enforce the rule of
law. You have failed to uphold our national sovereignty, and,
most importantly, you have failed the people of Minnesota. The
time for radical sanctuary state policy, sir, is over. The
voters made that clear last November when they elected
President Trump and Vice President JD Vance. You remember him,
don't you? Governor, the time for real leaders and real
leadership is now.
Actually, Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to
introduce into the record the Governor's tweet that I
referenced from May 23, 2018, which makes it clear his hatred
for Federal law enforcement. Thank you.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Mfume. Mr. Chairman?
Chairman Comer. Yes. The Chair recognizes Mr. Mfume.
Mr. Mfume. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. I have a
unanimous consent request, and I would like to present both of
those to you at the same time.
Chairman Comer. Proceed.
Mr. Mfume. Okay. I ask unanimous consent that we enter into
the record an article from The Hill on the 8 day of June:
``Latinas for Trump co-founder blasts inhumane immigration
arrests.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Mfume. Thank you, sir.
And the second one is from The Independent of May 28:
``Trump ordered a critically ill 4-year-old Mexican girl to
leave the country. Experts say she could die in days.'' I ask
unanimous consent.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Mfume. Thank you, sir.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Krishnamoorthi
from Illinois.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Governor
Pritzker, when it comes to immigration, you have been clear
that Illinois follows the law. I would like to go into this
issue just a little further. First, there has been a lot of
misinformation about the Illinois Trust Act. As you know, this
is the 2017 law signed by then-Republican Governor, Bruce
Rauner, which requires state agencies to cooperate with ICE
when it presents a criminal arrest warrant for an individual,
correct?
Governor Pritzker. Congressman, yes, that is correct.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And just to be clear, the Illinois
state police, the Department of Corrections, and other Illinois
agencies must cooperate with ICE when they present a criminal
arrest warrant, correct?
Governor Pritzker. And do every single time.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. This is Illinois law.
Governor Pritzker. Yes, it is.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Donald Trump may not like state law, as
we are seeing in California, but what Donald Trump likes is
irrelevant. The law is the law. The Wall Street Journal reports
that ICE's recent raids in California, including at a Home
Depot in the LA area, were organized because the Administration
was falling way short of its cruel goal of deporting thousands
of people per day. Politico said this is ``the standoff that
Trump wanted.'' There is another reason why Trump has provoked
the current situation in California. He does not want to talk
about what he calls the big, beautiful bill and what I call the
large, lousy law. So, let us talk about what Trump does not
want to discuss.
What Trump does not want to discuss is that his large,
lousy law cuts $625 billion in Medicaid, a program that ensures
millions of Americans. Governor Walz, in a press release on
Medicaid cuts, you said, ``The victims of these cuts will be
families, children, veterans, rural Americans, and pregnant
moms.'' That is what you said, right?
Governor Walz. That is correct, Congressman.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And Governor Hochul, in a recent op-ed
you wrote, ``Even if you do not rely on Medicaid, these cuts
affect you because when millions lose coverage, hospitals and
other vital healthcare institutions lose funding, and that
strains the entire system.'' That is what you wrote, right?
Governor Hochul. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Governor Pritzker, cuts in the large,
lousy law are going to leave upwards of 700,000 Illinoisans
without health insurance. Isn't that correct?
Governor Pritzker. Yes. People will die.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Trump's large, lousy law adds trillions
to the national debt as well, which could force $500 billion in
automatic cuts to Medicare in addition to the cuts in Medicaid
that we just referred to, and, of course, Medicare is a program
that every senior relies on.
Let me turn to my final topic. Governor Pritzker, President
Trump has called Illinois ``a poorly run state,'' but the
truth, of course, is the opposite. Governor, Illinois has had
seven consecutive balanced budgets, right?
Governor Pritzker. That is correct, Congressman.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And our credit rating has been raised
nine times in the last six years, correct?
Governor Pritzker. After 21 downgrades under Republican and
others.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And it now stands at an A rating,
right?
Governor Pritzker. It does.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. In contrast, under President Trump,
every credit agency has downgraded America's credit rating
below the top level, the first time in history that has
happened. Isn't that right?
Governor Pritzker. That is correct.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Trump and others claim the Federal
Government props up Illinois, but in reality, we are one of 13
states in the country that actually give more tax revenue to
Washington, D.C. than we receive in return. Now, let me turn to
some of the reasons why Illinois is a donor state and not a
taker state. Illinois has a $1.1 trillion economy. We produce
the most soybeans in America, and we are the number two
producer of corn, right?
Governor Pritzker. That is correct.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. We are the number two manufacturing
state in the country----
Governor Pritzker. We are.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi [continuing]. And we are the number two
destination for corporate expansions and relocations, right?
Governor Pritzker. And Chicago is number one.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Thanks to you, we have the world's
first quantum and microelectronics park, correct?
Governor Pritzker. That is right.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And we are ranked top in the Midwest
for workforce development, correct?
Governor Pritzker. Yes, we are.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And startups?
Governor Pritzker. That is right.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Illinois is the heart and soul of
America, Governor. It is where the cellphone was invented, was
home to the first McDonald's, and was the home of amazing
leaders: Lincoln, Reagan, Obama, Grant, even Superman, and,
yes, the Pope.
[Applause.]
And here is a picture of the Pope wearing a Chicago White
Sox cap. The next pope is going to be a Cubs fan.
Governor Pritzker. There you go.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Illinois has terrific jobs, people, and
pizza. Some may even say that God is on our side, Governor. I
am proud to be from Peoria. I always stand up for Illinois,
loud and proud. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Jordan from
Ohio.
Mr. Jordan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Governor Hochul, third
paragraph, second sentence in your written testimony, you said,
``New York State cooperates with U.S. Immigration Customs
Enforcement in criminal cases.'' Governor, who is Jesus Romero
Hernandez?
Governor Hochul. Thank you. I want to reaffirm that we do
cooperate in cases where----
Mr. Jordan. That was not the question. I just read your
statement. I can read your statement. Who is Jesus Romero
Hernandez?
Governor Hochul. I do not have the details on every single
person----
Mr. Jordan. I will tell you.
Governor Hochul. [continuing]. In the state of 20 million
people.
Mr. Jordan. I understand, but this guy is a citizen of
Mexico, deported seven times, came to your state, assaulted one
of your residents with a machete, choked a police officer, then
when he was in custody, assaulted a corrections officer. ICE
finds out this guy is in your state's custody, and they send
you a detainer. You are familiar with a detainer, right?
Governor Hochul. Yes, I am.
Mr. Jordan. Notice of Action Immigration Detainer to
Tompkins County Jail from Syracuse Immigrations and Customs
Enforcement. Section 1, they check a couple boxes. The first
one they check is ``a final order of removal against the alien
has taken place.'' That means a court has said this guy needs
to go. This machete-wielding, cop-choking, corrections officer
assaulting guy needs to go. Then they also check another box
and they say biometric confirmation of who this individual is,
this alien's identity. So, they got the right guy and a court
has said he needs to go. Any idea what Tompkins County Jail
decided to do with that detainer order?
Governor Hochul. I will tell you this. The state of----
Mr. Jordan. No, no, no. It is a specific question.
Governor Hochul. Well, I am telling----
Mr. Jordan. What did Tompkins County do?
Governor Hochul. The descriptions you have put forth are
absolutely chilling and disturbing and reprehensible to all of
us.
Mr. Jordan. Of course they are, which----
Governor Hochul. My job is to protect the people of New
York.
Mr. Jordan. Which is why I asking the question. What did
Tompkins County do?
Governor Hochul. What I have responsibility for----
Mr. Jordan. I will tell you since you are not going to
answer.
Governor Hochul. [continuing]. Our state courts, state
police.
Mr. Jordan. We cannot and will not hold Mr. Hernandez. We
cannot keep the machete guy who had choked a police officer and
assaulted a corrections officer. We cannot keep him. In fact,
we have the back-and-forth from Tompkins County and ICE on
January 28 of this year. 8:56 p.m., Tompkins County tells ICE
we are not going to hold this guy. Seven minutes later, ICE
responds back, ``We will be there to take custody this
evening.'' Twenty-four minutes later, Thompson County
reiterates we are not going to have him. We are not going to
turn him over. 10:45 p.m., ICE arrives at the jail 1 hour and
18 minutes later, and guess what? Mr. Hernandez is not there.
They could not wait 1 hour and 18 minutes for a guy who
assaulted one of your residents with a machete, choked a police
officer, and then when in custody, assaulted corrections
officers. That is sanctuary policy in a nutshell, and that is
what your state supports, and so do these other governors. That
is what is so wrong and why the American people hate this
concept.
Governor Hochul. You are conflating. What the state of New
York does is, I control state police and prisons. We have
turned over 1,300 people.
Mr. Jordan. Okay. So, you disagree?
Governor Hochul. We turned 1,300 people.
Mr. Jordan. Did the sheriff make the wrong call?
Governor Hochul. Those are local policies that we would not
have done in the State of New York. State of New York. That is
a local decision.
Mr. Jordan. So, you are saying this sheriff is wrong.
Governor Hochul. I would say this. If it happened in a
state prison, we have already turned over 1,300 people. In
fact----
Mr. Jordan. Is the sheriff in Tompkins County a Democrat a
Republican, Governor?
Governor Hochul. I want to say this. There have been
times----
Mr. Jordan. You have any idea?
Governor Hochul. Excuse me.
Mr. Jordan. Is the sheriff in Thompson County a Democrat or
Republican?
Governor Hochul. Excuse me. Excuse me. There have been
times----
Mr. Jordan. No, excuse me. I ask the questions. You give
the answers.
Governor Hochul. Well, I am asking----
Mr. Jordan. Is he a Democrat or Republican?
Governor Hochul. Wait a second.
Mr. Jordan. Do you know?
Governor Hochul. I am asking for this moment to explain
that I am sometimes waiting for ICE to come pick up people.
Mr. Jordan. I am asking is a Democrat or a Republican and
do you agree with the actions he took.
Governor Hochul. I think he is a Democrat.
Mr. Jordan. Do you agree with the actions he took? How
about that question?
Governor Hochul. They are in conflict with what the State
of New York would do.
Mr. Jordan. Well, maybe they are scared. By the way he is a
Democrat sheriff. Maybe the county guys are a little scared
because you said this. I am quoting from, it looks like the New
York Times. We all know you can trust them. This is last month,
May 25. You said, ``We have some counties that are renegade
counties and work with ICE.'' Maybe they are nervous of being
called a renegade county by their governor. So, the Democrat
sheriff says we are not going to keep the machete-wielding, cop
choking, corrections officer assaulting guy, we are not going
to keep him here for you to get here. We cannot even wait an
hour and 18 minutes.
Oh, you know what else was interesting in this case? You
know what else was interesting? There was actually an arrest
warrant from United States District Court, Northern District of
New York, signed by Judge Wiley Dancks, magistrate from
Syracuse. There was an arrest warrant, and they still could not
keep him.
Governor Hochul. The State of New York cooperates. We
cooperate in removal of individuals who have served time. We
responded. You are confusing, and maybe there is a lesson in--
--
Mr. Jordan. I am asking the question.
Governor Hochul. [continuing]. In civics here that is
necessary.
Mr. Jordan. Okay. Well, will you say on the record right
here--I got 12 seconds--will you say on the record was Tompkins
County wrong in the actions they took on January 25, 2025, when
they would not hold the guy for 1 hour and 18 minutes. Was
Tompkins County wrong?
Governor Hochul. Those are not the policies that we would
have in the State of New York.
Mr. Jordan. No, no.
Governor Hochul. Those are not the policies we would have.
Mr. Jordan. Were they wrong.
Governor Hochul. I have already said----
[Cross talking.]
Mr. Jordan. Should they have turned that guy over to ICE?
It is a simple question, Governor.
Governor Hochul. That was a horrible situation. The person
should not have been out there, and it----
Mr. Jordan. It is a horrible situation, but it is a yes or
no question.
Governor Hochul. It is a response that this is a locality.
Mr. Jordan. Do you agree or disagree?
Governor Hochul. In the State of New York----
Mr. Jordan. Agree or disagree?
Governor Hochul. [continuing]. The person should have been
held.
Mr. Jordan. Yes or no.
Governor Hochul. The person should have been held, and in
the State of New York we would have turned him over. That is in
conflict with what we would do as a state with respect to
prison.
Mr. Jordan. I appreciate the Chair's indulgence. I yield
back.
Governor Hochul. And I want to know why ICE will not come
and pick up the individuals who have served time in our state.
I have cases where they have not even shown up.
Mr. Jordan. Governor, a court order and a detainer for a
guy who did the things Mr. Hernandez did, and Tompkins County
cannot hold him an hour and 18 minutes, and you will not say
that is wrong?
Governor Hochul. I have said we cooperate when there is a
criminal case where someone has committed a crime. We turn them
over.
Mr. Jordan. This is sanctuary policy. This is sanctuary
policy in a nutshell.
Governor Hochul. You are mischaracterizing.
Mr. Jordan. You will not even condemn something that anyone
with common sense knows is ridiculous.
Governor Hochul. You are mischaracterizing.
Mr. Jordan. I have the facts here. Oh, can I get one other
thing, Mr. Chairman? Now he has been rearrested, and guess
what? This guy, who has now been rearrested, there is imminent
danger that this inmate will do injury to himself and to others
and presents a threat to safety, security, and good order of
the facility, so he is not permitted to leave his cell. So,
this guy is not even allowed out of his cell, but they let him
out on the street a few months ago. That is how ridiculous this
all is.
Governor Hochul. When he does leave his cell, it will be to
go back to his country under our orders of deportation.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired. The Chair
recognizes Mr. Mfume, and I will give you an extra minute.
Mr. Mfume. Mr. Chairman, I have got two unanimous consent
requests that I hope would not count against my time.
Chairman Comer. Okay. We will not.
Mr. Mfume. Okay.
Chairman Comer. The clock has stopped.
Mr. Mfume. I ask unanimous consent to submit for the record
an article from Forbes magazine entitled, ``Trump Team Focuses
Deportations on Immigration Numbers, Not on Criminals.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Mfume. And an article from the Rolling Stone from 6 of
last month entitled, ``Trump Has Now Deported Multiple U.S.
Citizen Children With Cancer.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
That is a good diversity of sources.
Mr. Mfume. It is. Rolling Stone and Forbes, yes.
Chairman Comer. Forbes and Rolling Stone. I like that. All
right, proceed.
Mr. Mfume. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. A couple things
on the record, and then some observations. I do not know that I
necessarily have any questions, but I do have some observations
and a statement.
I think before we let this get out of control, everybody on
this side of the aisle is against violence of all forms.
Everybody on this side of the aisle finds that to be
unacceptable. We believe that convicted criminals who are,
incidentally, illegally here and have been convicted should
have no safe harbor, and we believe that victims of criminals
should have our collective prayers and empathy. So, this is not
about Democrats not having a balance or about Democrats
supporting something that is not right.
The other thing that I want to say is that I find something
eerily chilling about what is going on here, and what is
chilling about it is that if I take myself out of 2025 and roll
myself back in time, some of the hatred that I see displayed
under the guise of good government just scares the hell out of
me. We are not that far away from situations that existed where
things like this affected other groups, and I am not talking
about anybody that is a convicted illegal criminal. I am
talking about innocent Americans who live in our neighborhoods,
who do the work that we will not do, who abide by the laws, who
play by the rules, who love their new country and who cherish
their faith.
Because if we just roll this clock on the wall back 75
years, we would be looking at a time in Nazi Germany where
people ran around with signs like this new ICE sign that says,
``Report all foreign invaders to ICE,'' with Uncle Sam there
holding up the sign. This could have been a Gestapo member 75
years ago, ``report all Jews.'' A hundred years before that, it
could be a plantation owner that said report all Negroes and
all colored and all those who are from Africa because they are
disrupting our country.
So, let us not get it twisted here. We in this country are
not pure and pristine. We had runaway slave laws to get the
people who ran away from slavery. We had 50 years of black
codes where you got fines and you got rewards and you got all
sorts of things if you did or did not do something to report
Black people. After 150 years of slavery, and 100 years of
segregation, and 100 years of Jim Crow after that, you could be
arrested for anything in this country not that long ago. I
remembered when the National Guard was deployed in 1968, and I
walked out of my house facing fixed bayonets with men in
uniform, not knowing what the hell they were there for, but
obeying the chief executive officer of this country. And I know
what it is like to face a bayonet and to face a national
guardsman, and I have seen the tension that it brought about
and how that group of demonstrations across this country
continued to go for days and days and days.
And so, do not give me there is something about these
people because they are immigrants. No, there is something
about them because they are people, and like all groups, they
have got bad people in them. I could have been arrested 75
years ago for walking into a restaurant, for drinking out of a
water fountain, for being accused of looking at a White woman
like Emmett Till did in 1955, and he was burned and lynched in
this country. When future generations peer through the
telescope of time, I hope that they look at us and realize that
there are some who chose not to shirk their responsibility, not
to run away from the reality and to face it head on.
Not too long ago, I went to visit a proud lady, who this
year will celebrate her 149th anniversary, and she stands today
even as we sit in this hour. In her left hand is a great torch,
and in her right hand, guess what? She clings the Declaration
of Independence close to her breast, and on her head is a crown
of spikes and on her feet broken shackles, symbolizing freedom
from tyranny, the tyranny that so many immigrants faced before
coming to this country. And as that plane flew over, I could
still hear her cry out through silent concrete lips saying,
``Send me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses who yearn
to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore.''
She says, ``Send those, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, for
I lift my lamp beside the golden door,'' that all of you, and
all of you, and all of you might follow.
And so, we came. Some took the circuitous route, some came
for a thrill, and some of us came against our will, but we came
and became what we are today as a Nation, and we must never
lose sight of the things that make us great for the things that
take away from our greatness. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Comer. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Mr.
Gill from Texas.
Mr. Gill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Governor Pritzker, do
you know how much illegal immigration costs your state each
year?
Governor Pritzker. No, sir, I do not.
Mr. Gill. It costs over $780 per family per year. That is a
lot of money, isn't it?
Governor Pritzker. Yes, it is, and may I ask, what do you
mean by the cost?
Mr. Gill. That is a lot of money for costs to your state.
Governor Pritzker. The cost of illegal immigration?
Mr. Gill. Let me ask you, do you know who Franklin Jose
Pena Ramos is?
Governor Pritzker. Are you talking about the Federal
Government's cost to the State of Illinois when there is a
failed----
Mr. Gill. I am asking you know who Franklin Jose Pena Ramos
is.
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. Immigration policy?
Mr. Gill. It is a yes or no question. I will take that as a
no. Do you know who Jose Rangel is?
Governor Pritzker. No, sir, I do not.
Mr. Gill. You do not. You should. Those are two men who
came into this country illegally, raped and murdered 12-year-
old Jocelyn Nungaray in my home State of Texas. Do you think
that elected officials should have welcomed them into our
communities? It is a yes or no question.
Governor Pritzker. Sir, before they committed a crime? I am
not sure what you are asking.
Mr. Gill. Do you think that they should have been welcomed
into our communities? That is a very straightforward question.
Governor Pritzker. Someone who commits murder? No, someone
who commits murder should be----
Mr. Gill. Why did you state during Biden's border crisis
that illegal aliens ``should have been welcomed and helped by
elected officials?''
Governor Pritzker. When you say, ``illegal aliens,'' people
who should be given asylum?
Mr. Gill. I am asking if these are people who should be
welcomed in our communities?
Governor Pritzker. People who are asylum seekers?
Mr. Gill. That is an easy yes or no question.
Governor Pritzker. You are mischaracterizing them.
Mr. Gill. It is your position that they should have been
welcomed into our communities. Is that correct?
Governor Pritzker. There were asylum seekers who were here
legally.
Mr. Gill. That is from your own statement. And then they
went on and murdered and raped 12-year-old Jocelyn Nungaray.
Governor Pritzker. Someone who commits murder should be
held accountable. We do that in the State of Illinois.
Mr. Gill. And you think they should have been welcomed into
our communities before they did.
Governor Pritzker. I do not know how you can tell before
somebody commits a crime that they are----
Mr. Gill. We can secure the border and not let illegal
aliens come into our communities. Do you support abolishing
ICE?
Governor Pritzker. Asylum seekers.
Mr. Gill. Do you support abolishing ICE?
Governor Pritzker. No, I believe we need an immigration
force in the United States. In fact----
Mr. Gill. You do not. You believe a budget is a moral
document. Is that correct?
Governor Pritzker. I do.
Mr. Gill. You do. You tweeted that. Your administration
gave $12,000 to the Organized Communities Against Deportations,
which just this past month was marching in the streets of
Chicago with signs saying, ``Abolish ICE.'' Do you support
this? Is this a reflection of your moral values?
Governor Pritzker. I do not support abolishing an
immigration force.
Mr. Gill. Is this a reflection of your moral values?
Governor Pritzker. I do not support abolishing an
immigration force.
Mr. Gill. That is good to hear. Mr. Governor, do you think
that biological men should be able to use women's restrooms?
Governor Pritzker. I am not sure how this has to do with
immigration.
Mr. Gill. It is just a yes or no question.
Governor Pritzker. Why are you emphasizing this?
Mr. Gill. It is very easy to answer.
Governor Pritzker. I thought we were here doing fact-
finding.
Mr. Gill. Do you think that men should be using women's
restrooms?
Governor Pritzker. I am sorry?
Mr. Gill. Do you think men should be allowed in women's
restrooms?
Governor Pritzker. This issue has nothing to do with
immigration.
Mr. Gill. You tweeted that, ``As a protest against
President Trump, everyone should use the other gender's
bathroom today.'' Have you ever used the women's restroom?
Governor Pritzker. Not that I can recall ever, sir, no.
Mr. Gill. You wanted everybody else to do it, but you did
not?
Governor Pritzker. Sir, I am not sure why we are on a topic
that has nothing to do with today's hearing.
Mr. Gill. I am asking you. You are advocating for men to
use women's restrooms, but you did not do it?
Governor Pritzker. I do not advocate that, no.
Mr. Gill. Well, actually you did. You said everyone should
use the other gender's bathroom today. Do you regret saying
that?
Governor Pritzker. I can tell you that you are politicizing
this in a way that what we ought to be focusing on is failure
of the Federal Government----
Mr. Gill. Do you regret encouraging men to use women's
restrooms?
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. And the Congress to deal
with immigration reform.
Mr. Gill. Do you regret encouraging men to use women's
restrooms?
Governor Pritzker. Again, you are taking us on topics that
have nothing to do with the subject that you invited us here
for.
Mr. Gill. Did you ever consider that women do not want you
in their bathrooms?
Governor Pritzker. So, you are admitting that this is just
a political circus. Is that what you are doing?
Mr. Gill. No, I am asking you because you put this on the
internet for everybody to see.
Governor Pritzker. This has nothing to do with immigration
and really about you grandstanding.
Mr. Gill. I am asking you, have you ever considered that
women do not want you in their bathrooms, that that is a
private space that they do not want you or any other man in?
You cannot say that?
Governor Pritzker. Congressman, let us talk about your
failure to vote for Medicaid. Like, you wanted to take Medicaid
away.
Mr. Gill. Normal people can say that they do not think men
should be in women's restrooms.
Governor Pritzker. And Supplemental Nutrition Assistance
Program (SNAP), and veterans services.
Mr. Gill. That is a very straightforward question.
Governor Pritzker. You apparently want people to die in the
United States----
Mr. Gill. And you are encouraging men to use women's
restrooms where there could be underage girls.
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. Because you want to take
healthcare away.
Mr. Gill. Do you think that is appropriate? Do you think
that is normal?
Governor Pritzker. Sir, if we are we are going to
politicize this, let us talk about what you are doing to people
in this country----
Mr. Gill. Do you think that is normal?
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. By virtue of your votes
with President Trump.
Mr. Gill. All right. Let us move on. Do you support Hamas'
agenda?
Governor Pritzker. Sir, I do not. They are a terrorist
organization.
Mr. Gill. Your administration gave a grant to the Muslim
Civic Coalition, which just two weeks after October 7 was
marching in the streets of Chicago to ``stop the U.S.-backed
genocide against Gaza.'' Is that a reflection of your values?
Governor Pritzker. I have spent my life fighting
antisemitism. I have spent my life----
Mr. Gill. No, I am asking is this a reflection of your
values?
Governor Pritzker. I am not sure why you are attacking me
about something that an organization----
Mr. Gill. But your administration gave money to this
organization.
Governor Pritzker. I am explaining to you that what we do
in the State of Illinois is stand up for what we believe are
rights and freedoms.
Mr. Gill. You did not have to give money to the Muslim
Civic Coalition in March----
Governor Pritzker. People have the right to express
themselves. We do not----
Mr. Gill [continuing]. To stop U.S.-backed genocide against
Gaza. That was your choice. That was your administration.
Governor Pritzker. I know Republicans want to take away
people's right to free speech. We do not in the State of
Illinois, and I think----
Mr. Gill. They have got the right to free speech. They do
not have the right to tax dollars, and you gave them to them.
Governor Pritzker. You want to take those rights away from
people. I understand.
Mr. Gill. The gentlemen time has expired. The Chair
recognizes Ms. Brown from Ohio.
Ms. Brown. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Trump
Administration is not serious about public safety. It is not
serious about solving immigration challenges. It is only
serious about blatantly violating constitutional rights,
stoking fear, and demonizing immigrants for political gain.
That is why Trump is weaponizing ICE to recklessly and
lawlessly target immigrant communities, and here is the
reality.
Two weeks ago, I met with community leaders from across my
district. Multiple Hispanic faith leaders told me the same
thing: their congregants, regardless of immigration status, are
afraid--afraid to speak Spanish in public, afraid to attend
community events, afraid to go to church. Because ICE, under
this Administration, has shown it will harass, detain, and
deport even wrongfully, no due process, no oversight, no
transparency, and now we are seeing this fear weaponized at
scale. Just this week, the President deployed 4,000 National
Guard troops to Los Angeles without the consent or consultation
of California's governor. So, let us be clear: this is not
about border security. This is not about law and order. What it
is really about is a reckless power grab. Militarizing American
cities does not make anyone safer. It escalates and puts
everyone at risk.
So, Governor Pritzker, as commander-in-chief of your
National Guard, how concerned are you about this executive
overreach?
Governor Pritzker. Thank you very much, Congresswoman, and
thank you for the remarks that you just made. Our job as
governors is to concern ourselves with the public safety of our
states, and indeed, one of the very important things that we do
is listen to our local law enforcement and listen to the local
officials who ask us for help when they need it. We have
probably, in my view--forgive me, governors--we have the best
state police in the entire country, and we have a terrific
13,000-person National Guard. We go to our state police for
support, and then, if necessary, we will ask the National Guard
to step in, and again, only when local law enforcement and our
local officials ask us for that help.
When the President of the United States goes in over the
top to grab our National Guard for domestic security, for
domestic, when there is not, as he said in a memo falsely, a
rebellion, that is taking away the rights and obligations of a
governor, and it ought to be done in consultation with
governors. In fact, the more local you get, the more accurate I
believe the information is about what is happening on the
ground. That is why I speak with local leaders of law
enforcement--CPD in Chicago or others--before we take any
action with National Guard.
Ms. Brown. Thank you.
Governor Pritzker. The President of the United States
fails. Fails. Why? Because he wants mayhem in the streets.
Ms. Brown. Thank you.
Governor Pritzker. Why did he call in Marines?
Ms. Brown. And that is the point. This Administration says
it is targeting violent criminals, but that is not what is
happening. They are going after parents dropping off their
kids, workers showing up to their jobs, and asylum seekers
navigating the legal system. And let me say this plainly: if
you commit a violent crime in this country, you should be
prosecuted. If you came here to do harm, this country is not
your home. Governor Pritzker, can you set the record straight
with, which direction is violent crime headed in your state? Up
or down?
Governor Pritzker. Down significantly.
Ms. Brown. Thank you, and, Governor Pritzker, across the
country, undocumented immigrants are less likely, less likely,
less likely to commit violent crimes than U.S. citizens. Does
that hold true in your state?
Governor Pritzker. Immigrants are less likely to commit
crimes than people who already live there.
Ms. Brown. Now, that may come as a surprise to some tuning
in today, especially those fed a steady diet of fear. A recent
poll found that Fox News viewers are twice as likely to believe
the false claim that immigrants commit more crime. It is not
true. It is not true. It is not true. So, let us stop with the
scapegoating and start focusing on real solutions. So, quick
yes or noes, Governor Pritzker. Did Trump's pardon of the
January 6 defendants who violently attacked police officers
make Illinois safer?
Governor Pritzker. It did not.
Ms. Brown. Does blocking common sense gun laws, like
universal background checks, make your state safer?
Governor Pritzker. Absolutely not.
Ms. Brown. Did DOGE cuts to community violence prevention
funding make your state safer?
Governor Pritzker. Much less safe.
Ms. Brown. Would cutting Medicaid to pay for tax breaks for
the wealthy make your state safer?
Governor Pritzker. No.
Ms. Brown. Cutting SNAP benefits?
Governor Pritzker. No.
Ms. Brown. Okay. So, this is what we are dealing with, with
this current Administration: things that are not making our
country any safer and are doing harm to the people who need it
the most. And with that, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady yields back. I recognize Mr.
Donalds from Florida.
Mr. Donalds. Thank you, Chairman. To piggyback off my
colleague, Governor Pritzker, how much does the state of
Illinois spend on illegal immigration every year?
Governor Pritzker. Again, illegal immigration, that is a
Federal responsibility. They could tell how much is wasted as a
result of their failures.
Mr. Donalds. Governor, don't you keep track of how many
people are on your Medicaid rolls, how many people who are
illegal immigrants in the State of Illinois who are getting
actually benefits in your state? Doesn't your government keep
track of that?
Governor Pritzker. They do not get Medicaid in Illinois or
any state as far as I know.
Mr. Donalds. Governor Pritzker, you do not keep track of
any public service dollars in the State of Illinois that goes
to illegal immigrants or goes to people in your state who are
not legal residents of the United States and of the State of
Illinois. You do not keep track of that?
Governor Pritzker. We absolutely keep track of our budget
and work very closely, and, in fact, it has been balanced for
seven years in a row unlike the Republican before me, yes.
Mr. Donalds. You know, it is interesting. I noticed that in
the State of Illinois, you guys do not really keep track of
your money because I asked your mayor in Chicago similar
question about a month ago, and he did not have an answer. It
was quite interesting. I think this might be an Illinois
problem.
Governor Hochul, in your state you are spending about
roughly $4 billion on illegal immigration, and at the same
time, you are actually asking the Federal Government for $4
billion to finish Penn Station. Don't you think it would be
better to stop funding illegal immigrants in your state and
actually use those resources to finish Penn Station as opposed
to coming to the Federal Government for the money?
Governor Hochul. Penn Station is owned by Amtrak, not by
the state, so it is an appropriate use of their dollars, and
Donald Trump has agreed to spend upwards of $7 billion. I
appreciated that very much. What we spend on immigrants, the
immigrants who are here, hardworking, to live a life, and
working on our farms, and taking care of our parents in nursing
homes, and taking care of our children. They have been coming
here for 400 years, and we do not keep track of individuals
based on their status. We make sure that people have services,
so we do not end up with an unexpected----
Mr. Donalds. So, essentially, what you are telling me is
that you keep no track of money that is going to people who are
not legal in the United States. Resources that are taken away
from New Yorkers, resources that are taken away from Illinois,
you guys do not keep track of any of this.
Governor Hochul. You know what is really challenging is
that many people came here with legal status, I mean, temporary
protective status, 300,000----
Mr. Donalds. Do you go----
Governor Hochul. All of a sudden they wake up one day and
it is gone.
Mr. Donalds. Do you go along with the strategy from the
Biden Administration which massively expanded immigration
protocols that overwhelmed your city and overwhelmed your
state. Do you agree with that?
Governor Hochul. We call for secure borders. We call for
this body to do its job.
Mr. Donalds. I never remember you calling for secure
borders at all, Governor Hochul.
Governor Hochul. Well, we certainly have. We certainly
have.
Mr. Donalds. That does not come to my memory.
Governor Hochul. Many conversations I had with the White
House, and we asked for Federal resources. I mean, you are
putting a Federal problem on our laps, and you know what? It
gets old after a while. I wish you would just do your job here
and pass----
Mr. Donalds. If your party actually would do the job of
securing the Nation the way President Trump has now had to do
twice, we would not be in this predicament. Wouldn't you agree?
Governor Hochul. It is a Federal job----
Mr. Donalds. Do you agree or disagree that securing the
Nation's borders is the job of the President of the United
States? President Trump has done that job twice now----
Governor Hochul. Well----
Mr. Donalds [continuing]. And previous Democrat presidents
have not done that job. Wouldn't you agree with that?
Governor Hochul. This has been a problem that has been in
place since I was a young staffer here on Capitol Hill. We
worked on immigration, and Ronald Reagan signed amnesty for
three million people.
Mr. Donalds. It is interesting you bring up Reagan's
amnesty in 1986. You know what part of that deal was to
actually build a border wall and secure it, but the Democrat
Party refuses to build a border wall. You oppose it every
single time. Is that your position? Do you now support border
walls, Governor Hochul?
Governor Hochul. There has been many times when bipartisan
legislation is presented to this body, and people just walk
away from it. They refuse to do the hard work of governing like
Governors like us have to do every single day. When I leave
here, I am going to go home and govern a state. I am not going
to tweet about this experience because I have too much work to
do taking care of New Yorkers----
Mr. Donalds. You are really not doing a good job, Governor
Hochul, because a lot of New Yorkers are actually coming into
my state, in Florida, many of them. They come all the time
because they actually want to come to a state that is well run,
that protects citizens, does not allow illegal aliens to
victimize citizens like they are victimized in the State of New
York, like they are in the State of Illinois, like they are
victimized in the State of Minnesota. They choose states like
Florida and Texas to find safer places to live and raise their
families. Hold on, Governor Hochul. We have had enough time.
Governor Hochul. Our crime rates are much lower than yours,
much lower.
Mr. Donalds. Governor Walz, you have been sitting over
there pretty quiet. I have got a question for you.
Governor Walz. I love to talk. Thank you, Congressman.
Mr. Donalds. Fair enough. You said earlier that the ICE
agents under the orders of President Trump are a modern-day
Gestapo. Do you realize how disgusting a phrase that is
considering the history of Nazi Germany? Would you like to
recant that statement?
Governor Walz. What I said, Congressman and I have a long
history of supporting law enforcement, I said President Trump
was using them as his modern-day Gestapo, not identifying who
you are, coming up in unmarked bans, taking people away, and
giving----
Mr. Donalds. Is it the responsibility of ICE to actually
deport illegal aliens in the United States who are here? Isn't
that their responsibility?
Governor Walz. Yes, it is, Congressman, except that the
Constitution is not an inconvenience. It is not an either/or.
You can your job----
Mr. Donalds. Nobody said it is an inconvenience. We have a
responsibility to deport illegal aliens----
Governor Walz. [continuing]. Through due process.
Mr. Donalds. [continuing]. And the President is going
through that process right now.
Governor Walz. We are not----
Mr. Donalds. And let us be very clear, the previous
Administration, they abused every process there is under border
laws to allow more than ten million people into the country
illegally, and this is a burden on all Americans, and so the
President is doing his job. So, it is sick to refer to
Americans who are ICE agents as Gestapo. Governor, you are
wrong. You need to apologize to these agents. They are doing
their jobs. They are Americans. They serve this country with
honor and decency and respect. Do not diminish their work
simply because you tried to make a cheap point that you could
tweet. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Ms. Stansbury from
New Mexico.
Ms. Stansbury. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Well, some
interesting theatrics today. Welcome, everyone, to the
Oversight reality TV show. I know Mr. Trump loves himself some
good TV, and today is not disappointing, and, in fact, I want
to say welcome to some of the Members who have showed up to
this Committee who I have never seen here before. It is great
to have you here in the hearing room with us.
Now, before I get started on the topic at hand, I want to
take a moment to speak directly to the immigrant community who
might be watching and listening today. I want to say to
everyone out there who is living in fear, we see you, we love
you, we respect you, and we are fighting for you and every
community that is being targeted by this Administration and
this Congress. We also want all of you out there to know that
you have rights. You are protected by the law, and you should
not have to live in fear and wonder whether or not you are
going to be safe if you leave your home or if your family is
going to come home at night. We see you. We are fighting for
you. You have rights.
Now, let us turn to the situation in California, which, of
course, much of this hearing has focused on. As someone from a
Marine veteran family, let me be clear: Marines are combat
troops. They are highly trained, highly disciplined, lethal,
fighting force combat troops, and they should never--never--be
deployed against the American people who are exercising their
constitutional rights. This is a gross and disgusting abuse of
power, a disgusting abuse of power by fake tough guys, fake
tough guys who think that they can intimidate our communities
while taking away their rights. And this is from the same man,
the same man, who dodged the draft and called our military
service-members suckers and losers. That is your commander-in-
chief.
And here, these folks here and the President want to say
they are for our military and our veterans while they are
illegally deploying servicemembers, violating state
sovereignty, gutting the department of Veteran's Affairs (VA),
firing generals and lifelong service members. And you all want
to sit in here and play like you are with the military and the
American people while Donald Trump is planning to spend $45
million of your hard-earned taxpayer dollars on a fake military
parade this Saturday, that they cannot even fill, that they put
a super political action committee (PAC) ad on Craigslist to
recruit citizens of the city of Washington, D.C. to go stand in
the parade route. Congratulations. It is made for TV, but this
is serious because this is an abuse of power.
So, I want to read a list of grievances: obstructing the
administration of justice, refusing to assent to the laws for
the public good, sending swarms of officers to harass our
people, keeping standing armies without consent of our
legislatures, transporting Americans overseas to be tried for
pretend offenses. Mr. Chairman, I wonder, do you know where
these offenses come from?
[No response.]
Ms. Stansbury. No? Ah, that is too bad because it is
actually the Declaration of Independence. That is right. It is
the Declaration of Independence, and my colleagues across the
aisle might want to bone up on that and the U.S. Constitution
before they go attacking our communities, especially as we head
into the 4th of July holiday and celebrate our independence
from an abusive and mad king, because here in America, there
are no kings and we reject people who believe they are, and no
one is above the law and we will hold them accountable.
But I think it is very clear today, and I think it has been
borne out by every witness that we have here, that what Donald
Trump is doing is not only an abuse of power and abuse of the
military and abuse of our citizens, but also, y'all should know
this, while you are sitting here creating this made-for-TV
moment, that two-thirds of Americans, according to the polling
yesterday, are opposed to what Donald Trump is doing with both
immigration and the deployment of the military in our
communities. It is wrong, it is immoral, it is illegal, and it
is a violation of our rights, and with that, I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Langworthy from
New York.
Mr. Langworthy. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Governor
Hochul, yes or no--do you think someone who has committed
murder or rape in this country and they are here illegally,
should have tools at their disposal to avoid deportation?
Governor Hochul. As the governor----
Mr. Langworthy. It is a yes or no question.
Governor Hochul. [continuing]. My primary responsibility is
to protect the people of New York.
Mr. Langworthy. I am sorry.
Governor Hochul. Those crimes are abhorrent.
Mr. Langworthy. I am sorry. Whatever response you prepared
to give today dwarfs in comparison to your actions as governor.
I would like to remind you of someone named Gianfranco Torres-
Navarro, an illegal alien and suspected leader of a violent
Peruvian gang. He was tied to 23 murders in Peru and came to
this country illegally across the Southern border. He had his
victims' faces tattooed on his body, and he was hiding in plain
sight in Endicott, New York for an extended period of time
where ICE could not locate him, and why did it take so long to
find him? Because policies like your Green Light Law, which
blocks ICE and U.S. Border Patrol from accessing critical
Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) data bases. In fact, it
threatens the badges, and threatens to charge with felonies,
any officer that shares that DMV data with Federal agents.
These agents rely on data to be able to know who they are
pulling over on the side of the road. They are taking their
lives into their hands every time they are trying to keep our
streets safe.
The really sick irony here is that your government in New
York, my home state, freely shares that same DMV data with the
Government of Canada at our bridges in you and my hometown, but
it does not share that data with your American Federal
Government. Why, Governor?
Governor Hochul. You are misstating the Green Light Law
because----
Mr. Langworthy. No, I am not.
Governor Hochul. [continuing]. We are able to cooperate
with Federal authorities when there is a crime.
Mr. Langworthy. Why do you shield the data base, Governor?
Governor Hochul. Anything they want from us related to
investigating a crime is available to them.
Mr. Langworthy. This is data that is needed in real time to
enforce the laws on the streets. They cannot subpoena these
records from your government, and I have had these
conversations with my county sheriffs all across the State of
New York, state police. They want to work with the Federal
officials, they want to clean up these messes, but they cannot
because they are being threatened by you and our attorney
general that they will take away their badge and end their
careers.
Governor Hochul. There have been countless, countless
instances where we have cooperated with Federal law enforcement
happens on a daily basis. And so, your characterization is just
incorrect of how we should provide information to people who
ask for it.
Mr. Langworthy. You share the database in its entirety with
Canada, but you do not share it with the Federal Government. It
is beyond belief. I mean, this is denial and excuses, Governor.
You know damn well that the New York State Sheriff's
Association, the State Association of Chiefs of Police, have
both condemned the Green Light Law. Sheriff's from Erie County,
Niagara County, Monroe, Albany, Broome, Duchess, and Oneida
Counties, multiple parties represented here, not just
Republicans, have warned that your law ties their hands. It
puts officers' lives in danger, and it shields criminals from
accountability. When you refuse to work with law enforcement,
when you refuse to hand over data that can protect communities
and save lives, you are actively aiding the illegal alien
criminals who have crossed our borders and committed violent
crimes.
And the consequences are not hypothetical. Your bail reform
law is the reason that Laken Riley is dead. He should have been
in jail in New York, and he was not. He went to Georgia. He
fled our state because he should have been in prison. These are
tragic and real circumstances. In Buffalo, a Venezuelan illegal
immigrant hacked his wife to death with an axe. In Syracuse, an
Ecuadorian national strangled a young woman on her birthday and
dumped her body in a park. In Irondequoit, in Monroe County, a
Dominican national slaughtered an entire family, including two
toddlers, and he set their house on fire.
Governor Hochul, you took an oath to serve the citizens of
the State of New York, and you have allowed violent criminals
who came here illegally to hide in plain sight and to avoid
Federal officials because of your support for the Green Light
Law. I mean, this is an abomination. This is not keeping New
Yorkers safe. This is----
Governor Hochul. We turn over the information you are
referring to all the time. You are misstating the laws and its
purpose. We cooperate all the time.
Mr. Langworthy. As much as I want to believe you, Governor,
I believe the cops more.
Governor Hochul. Well----
Mr. Langworthy. I believe the cops that I know and I trust
in our same hometown that are out there in the streets every
single day. Your laws put lives in danger. Your laws have led
to people being murdered.
Governor Hochul. My job is to protect the people of New
York, and I fight hard every single day. I have done more----
Mr. Langworthy. You are doing a very lousy job of it,
Governor.
Governor Hochul. [continuing]. Reduced the crimes. Murder
rates are down to historic lows, and we are working hard to
make sure. One crime is one too many. I take this very
seriously, but we do cooperate anytime they need help with law
enforcement, and you are just refusing to accept it.
Mr. Langworthy. That is just not what the law enforcement
officials tell me, Governor.
Governor Hochul. You are not accepting the facts. I cannot
help that.
Mr. Langworthy. I trust the professionals. You and I are
not police officers. I trust the people out in the field that
wear a badge that are honorable, decent, hardworking people.
Governor Hochul. And that is why they serve.
Mr. Langworthy. And you have a record of disrespect to law
enforcement, just like you disrespected every corrections
officer in the State of New York. You have a lot of gall to
come here and criticize the President for using the National
Guard to actually bring law and order to the streets of our
country when you sent those same National Guard officers to
become corrections officers after you destroyed the lives of so
many of the hardworking corrections officers of the state when
you broke their union.
Governor Hochul. You are absolutely right. There is a
distinction. I have the authority over the National Guard in
the State of New York. The President is usurping the
sovereignty of another state of the 50 states when he imposes
the National Guard against the will of the governor.
Chairman Comer. The time has expired.
Governor Hochul. It is the difference of understanding of
basic civics.
Mr. Langworthy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
Ms. Ansari. Mr. Chairman, I have a unanimous consent
request.
Chairman Comer. I am sorry?
Ms. Ansari. I have a unanimous consent request.
Chairman Comer. Proceed.
Ms. Ansari. First, I would like to seek unanimous consent
to enter into the record this article, ``Counties that provided
`sanctuary' to undocumented immigrants saw falling crime rates,
study finds.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Ansari. Second, ``Data Shows Sanctuary Policies Make
Communities Safer, Healthier, and More Prosperous.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Ansari. And third, ``Trump Team Focuses Deportation on
Immigration Numbers, Not Criminals.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
The Chair now recognizes Mr. Garcia from California.
Mr. Garcia. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank our
governors for being here as well. Thank you all for your
service to your states and to our country.
I want to just be clear: Donald Trump, clearly, and House
Republicans are really not serious about helping our states and
our cities. Before I came to Congress, I was a mayor, and I
worked closely with our police department, incredible men and
women that worked really hard to promote policies that actually
make the public safer. Now, during that time, our city actually
reported some of the lowest murder rates in history, and I have
been in close touch with our current police departments, our
local sheriff and local law enforcement, and I want to be
clear: Donald Trump is intentionally provoking chaos, hate, and
division.
Now, Trump is trying to intimidate, he is using our
military to create fear, and there is no legal justification
for his actions. I strongly believe he is trying to keep
American citizens from peacefully making their voices heard. We
just had a demonstration in my hometown of Long Beach,
California. Over 500 people showed up. There was no vandalism,
there were no arrests, and it was peaceful, and I want to thank
them. Trump is trying to make it very clear that this is about
intimidation. I believe he is fueling violence on our streets
because he thinks it is politically helpful to him, and I
actually want to remind our Committee that when Donald Trump
was President, in 2020, that is actually when we saw surges in
violent crime across the country. They increased under Donald
Trump's watch.
So, we should be focused on actual public safety threats.
But we know that Donald Trump is taking Federal law enforcement
away from actually investigating serious crimes and cartels.
And if you ask any police department/police chief across the
country in your states, they will tell you they want their
police focused on the issues in their neighborhoods, in the
state. Traffic violations, speeding, domestic violence, those
are the issues that people want to see addressed. Law
enforcement should be focused on those issues, and I know the
governors agree.
Back in my home district in Downey, California, we have had
agents just yesterday grab people in front of churches, their
houses of worship. Agents refuse to identify themselves and
show warrants. An elderly man was dropping off his
granddaughter at their local church and was detained in front
of the property and the family. That is outrageous and should
be disturbing to every single American, and we know this does
actually nothing to protect the public, but this, of course, is
Donald Trump's playbook. He does not care about the safety of
the American people. He fuels hate and fear.
It is no coincidence that Donald Trump is fueling chaos at
the same time he is advancing legislation which the American
people know is completely toxic and harmful to this country. We
are looking at 16 million people losing healthcare. It is being
debated right now as we speak in the Senate--nutrition cuts for
seniors and veterans, huge tax cuts for the wealthiest and the
largest corporations in this country--and while this is being
debated, Donald Trump is causing chaos and fear across our
country.
I want to ask the governors in the remaining time that we
have, it is clear that healthcare and these impacts of this
bill will impact all three of your states greatly, and so I
have a brief question. What is the bigger risk to your state,
ripping away healthcare from millions of people across the
country, thousands and thousands in your own states, or the
law-abiding, working undocumented folks in your states? And I
will let you each go ahead and give that answer. We will start
with Governor Pritzker.
Governor Pritzker. Thank you very much, Congressman Garcia.
There are 770,000 people who stand to lose their healthcare in
the State of Illinois, perhaps even more depending on how this
bill turns out, and I can tell you that there are people who
are dependent upon Medicaid and Medicare to survive. I am
deeply, deeply concerned about the deaths that will occur as a
result of the cuts, not to mention that we are taking away SNAP
benefits from families that need it most, and children--
children. Veteran services. People who have Post-Traumatic
Stress Disorder (PTSD) who need to see their therapist at a
certain time now have to wait much longer periods of time
because of the threat of this bill, so I am deeply concerned.
DOGE has taken away one of our facilities in the State of
Illinois already. It is a huge problem----
Mr. Garcia. Thank you, Governor.
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. And that is the threat.
That----
Mr. Garcia. Thank you. Governor Walz?
Governor Walz. Yes, thank you, Congressman. In Minnesota,
in 2023, we were ranked as the top state for healthcare, home
of the Mayo Clinic. We have more people covered almost than any
other state. This bill would take 250,000 people off of
healthcare, make it more difficult, reduce the outcomes we are
getting. Forty percent of those are children who receive their
care through that way, and over, I believe, 70 percent of
nursing home patients. It would be catastrophic, and the state
has built it up to improve lives of all of our citizens.
Mr. Garcia. Thank you, and finally, Governor Hochul?
Governor Hochul. Healthcare is a basic human right, and I
am proud in the State of New York that 95 percent of people in
our state have healthcare coverage, but these devastating cuts
will throw off at least 1.5 million New Yorkers, and not just
those individuals, but when hospitals in rural areas have to
shut down, the entire community will lose important services.
So, this will have a ripple effect through our economy and hurt
more than just the people who will lose their Medicaid. And it
is devastating and absolutely unwarranted, and we encourage
everyone to stand up, speak up on behalf of their constituents,
especially those from the State of New York who represent rural
areas. They are counting on you.
Mr. Garcia. Thank you. Governors, I thank you, and I yield
back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Biggs from
Arizona.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I get a kick out of
you, sanctuary state, county, city leaders who talk about
having to deal with the border crisis. It cracks me up
actually, but at least, Governor Pritzker, you did call it a
crisis in your statement. I appreciate that. Ultimately, as you
said in your statement, you receive 50,000 illegal aliens into
Cook County, and Governor Hochul stated that New York received
about 220,000 illegal aliens. That is fantastic that you know
those numbers roughly.
Now, I want you to imagine you are a Southern Arizona
community of about 80,000 people sitting right on the border,
and over the course of the Biden Administration, a couple of
million people came through your little town. And I quote you,
Governor Pritzker, ``Illinois did not ask for this crisis,''
and I am going to tell you, neither did Yuma, Arizona. Its lone
hospital, only hospital, could not handle the influx. Nor could
its single food bank, its law enforcement, its schools, and
other services and infrastructure. That was a failure, you are
correct, on the part of the Federal Government under Joe Biden.
That has all stopped now. That has all stopped now because it
did not take a new law. It took enforcement of the current law.
But you know what drew a lot of those people? Because you
might have been down there once. I have been down there dozens
of times. I have taken more people from Congress down there
than anybody else here, and you know what those people told me?
They are coming here because they wanted to get to places, and
they would name Chicago, and they would name New York to me.
And I would say, why the heck are you crossing here not
crossing at Del Rio? Because you guys offered sanctuary
policies. They believed that they would be protected in your
jurisdictions.
And now that these millions of illegal aliens are here,
permitted to get here by the Democrats and the Biden
Administration, your jurisdictions actually hindered the
enforcement of immigration laws because of the sanctuary
policies you have adopted. And then you have the temerity to
complain about the influx of illegal aliens that strain your
social services. Well, you did that. That is not even an
unintended consequences. That is what it is.
So, I will ask you, Governor Walz, do you agree with your
attorney general's opinion stating that it is not lawful for
Minnesota counties to hold people for immigration authorities,
even if there is an immigration warrant? Do you agree with his
statement? That is his statement. It is not yours. I just want
to know if you agree with him.
Governor Walz. Yes. Well, I know you know this,
Congressman, that all 87 Minnesota counties follow Federal law.
Mr. Biggs. I do not know that. I just want to know.
Governor Walz. I have not yet explained.
Mr. Biggs. I do not know, though. Why would I know that? I
am just going by your attorney general.
Governor Walz. I have not got----
Mr. Biggs. He says not to do it. Do you agree with the
attorney general? That is all I am asking.
Governor Walz. The attorney general is elected
independently in Minnesota. Nothing in his opinion allows it--
--
Mr. Biggs. So, are you telling me you disagree with him? Do
you disagree with him?
Governor Walz. Could I have 20 seconds just to----
Mr. Biggs. I just want you to answer the question. You are
not answering the question.
Governor Walz. I served here, Congressman, and there is the
respect to the witnesses to just be able to speak.
Mr. Biggs. Yes, yes, there is and that respect from the
witness should be to answer the question.
Governor Walz. Our counties and jurisdictions can do
whatever they deem necessary. They have to be----
Mr. Biggs. Do you agree with your attorney general?
Apparently, we do not know because you are not going to answer.
You are going to be oblique about it.
Governor Walz. That is an unfair characterization. I am
trying to answer. I am not the Attorney General of Minnesota.
Mr. Biggs. Do you agree with his memo?
Governor Walz. You are not letting me----
Mr. Biggs. You are killing time because you are
filibustering. Do you agree with his memo? That is all I am
asking.
Governor Walz. Nothing is----
Mr. Biggs. And you do not want to even answer it. You just
say, oh, maybe that, maybe yes, maybe no, I do not know.
Let us go to you, Governor Pritzker. A lawsuit was filed
against you in the State of Illinois, and your response to the
claim is that Illinois has a ``constitutionally protected
choice not to assist Federal authorities with deportation.''
Give me the constitutional reference you are making there. What
are you referring to?
Governor Pritzker. Congressman, I do not know the lawsuit
that you are referring to, and I do not know that I was the
respondent in that lawsuit. I can say that----
Mr. Biggs. This is from the response filed on your behalf,
so you did not read the response? Well, let me then ask you, if
that is the response officially of you, how is that consistent
with Arizona v. United States? It is not. How is it consistent
with 8 U.S.C. 287(d)(3)? It is not. Let us just cover it in the
last 18 seconds. You say we do give these people the
information only on a criminal warrant. Is there any
distinction in 8 U.S.C. 1373(a) and 1324(c) that says, yes, you
do not have to give information, you do not have to provide the
body, you do not have to respond to the ICE detainer. Is there
anything in there that says there is the distinction between
the criminal law, the criminal warrant, the criminal detainer,
and a civil warrant/civil detainer? Is there anything in there?
The answer is no. I will answer for you.
You do violate the law. You are sanctuary cities, and every
one of you sitting there, if you do not know that by now, you
should know it walking out of here that you are actually
committing a Federal crime every time someone does that because
you do not have the authority under Federal law or under the
Constitution to negate even a civil warrant for someone who has
violated a Federal offense when you get a detainer notice. I
yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Frost from
Florida.
Mr. Frost. Thank you, Mr. Chair. All over the country,
people are protesting, nonviolently, President Trump's
treatment of immigrants, and they are right to, and I think it
is important that we are clear as leaders about what is going
on in this country right now. There is no mass deportation
campaign. Deportation is a process, a process that is not being
followed right now. What is going on is people are being
snatched up in the middle of the streets, trafficked, kidnapped
in the middle of the streets, trafficked to other countries
without due process. Trump is taking blatantly illegal and
inhumane actions to stoke protests and then escalating things
from there.
Over the weekend, he sent U.S. troops to California--this
is dangerous--first, the California National Guard without the
Governor's support and now the Marines. The Marines are trained
to fight and win wars, not to deescalate a protest in the heart
of an American city. Members of our armed services have sworn
an oath to the Constitution. They did not swear an oath to
Donald Trump, and they are not his personal army. And so, in
the face of a wannabe dictator, we have to have strong
opposition.
First, the Trump Administration says they are going to
arrest judges, then they arrested a judge. Then they talk about
arresting elected officials, then a mayor gets arrested. Then
they said they would arrest a Member of Congress, and one has
been indicted. A Democratic Member of Congress has been
indicted. And now we have Trump's border czar, Tom Homan, who
has threatened to arrest the California Governor, and I do not
think we should take this as an empty threat. Why is Trump now
saying he wants to arrest governors? It is because he knows
that some of the people who are going to be the greatest
opposition to his lawlessness are Democratic governors standing
up for their people.
And so, I am just curious to hear from our three governors
here today because these things can be put forth as
hypotheticals, but they are not hypotheticals. Elected
officials are being arrested. This is happening. The DOJ is
being weaponized against us. So, if Federal agents were to come
to your door, to the governor's mansion, approach your security
staff to arrest you--you have Tom Homan on the news saying I
want to arrest Governor Hochul, Governor Pritzker, Governor
Walz--what do you do? What do you say? I am just curious.
Governor Hochul, you can start.
Governor Hochul. If Tom Homan comes to Albany to arrest me,
I will say go for it. You cannot intimidate a governor. What is
this country coming to when people can threaten us on social
media and on cable news, and try to stop us from doing our
jobs? We are here on the front lines every day fighting to
defend our rights, our values, and the public safety of our
residents, and so anything threatening our responsibility is an
assault on our democracy, nothing short of that.
Governor Pritzker. Thank you, Congressman. Let me begin by
saying I have the highest duty to protect the people of my
state, and, indeed, if Tom Homan were to come to try to arrest
us, me rather, I can say, first of all, that he can try. I can
also tell you that I will stand in the way of Tom Homan going
after people who do not deserve to be frightened in their
communities, who do not deserve to be threatened, terrorized. I
would rather that he came and arrested me than do that to the
people of my state.
Governor Walz. Well, thank you Congressman, and just
sitting here listening today, again, there are many of you
here, friends on both sides of the aisle, that I served here.
The job of governor is very different than the job you are
doing, but we need you. We need to work together. No one here
wants to hear these horrific stories, but we have a job to do
on limited resources, and equating that not doing ICE's job
means we are not cooperating? We are patrolling our highways. I
am proud that Minnesota is a state, third lowest in traffic
deaths. If we start doing all the things at ICE, and nothing we
do precludes them from doing their job. And so, threatening and
political, and I did not realize, I guess. I watch it. I did
not realize how much animosity there is here. We have a
responsibility to the American public to work together, and I
think threatening arrests on elected officials, Congressman, it
does not help any of us. And Governor Pritzker is right. Our
citizens are scared and angry, and it is not necessary. We can
fix this with a bipartisan border bill. Help us out.
Mr. Frost. Thank you, Governor. I want to end by saying
former governor and now Secretary of Homeland Security, Kristi
Noem, just last year said that ``Federalizing the National
Guard would be a direct attack on state's rights,'' and now she
is cheering it on. President Trump has consolidated power so
much in his own party, there is little to no, pretty much zero,
opposition left to his lawlessness. We hear it in this room
right now. And the last thing I want to say, too, is what is
going on right now is not just a distraction from the fact that
they want to pass a massive tax break for the richest Americans
and take away services and things from working families, but it
is to enable it. These are not two different stories because
the only way you rip away healthcare from 15 million Americans
in this country and not feel like you have to fear for your job
or that you are going to be protested every day, is by scaring
the people and suppressing their First Amendment right.
What is going on in Los Angeles and what Donald Trump wants
to do around the Nation is directly connected to the fact that
he is going to take away healthcare from all of these people,
15 million Americans, to benefit people like him and his
donors, and it is shameful. These are not two different things.
It is the same thing. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Higgins from
Louisiana.
Mr. Higgins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Governors, I guess
thank you for being here today. This was staged to be, it was
bound to be a political conflict here, but I would like to get
pretty real with each of you. I know Governor Walz pretty good.
He and I came to be, believe it or not, America, Governor Walz
and I came to be quite friendly. I consider him a friend for
many years, and it was fascinating that we disagreed on almost
everything politically. I doubt there was a vote we had in
common, but I am pretty sure I could call Governor Walz and get
a straight answer even now, at least in private. But a setting
like this is difficult to get a straight answer because you are
being viewed so closely. All of us are. So, I am going to try
and be real with you.
Governor Pritzker, I do not know you. Governor Hochul, I do
not know you. I can tell you that you strike me as extremely
political and rather arrogant, quite smug, good lady, and this
is a serious topic, man. We have hundreds of thousands of
Americans dead from fentanyl that came across our border. Our
Nation suffered generational trauma for four years from open
border policies, and we listened in ad nauseum speech after
speech after speech about how Mayorkas, who struck me as
equally smug in many horrific meetings, said we need more
money, we need more laws. We never needed more money. We never
needed more laws. We needed an executive branch that had the
will to enforce the law and, thus, end the trauma that the
American people were continually suffering at our Southern
border.
Now, the impact of that policy remains, and sanctuary
cities are a large part of this thing. And I do not know the
life of you three, your background. I do not know if you have
held the hand of a mother or father and had to deliver to them
the news that their child had been killed by a violent
criminal, prayed with that person, but I have, and the victims
of crime commonly have a simple refrain: why? Why? Why did this
happen to my family?
And I am going to ask you, Governor Pritzker, and you,
Governor Hochul, what do you say to those people, have ever had
the courage to speak with one in person in private without
cameras, and when they ask you why, why was this horrible
person invited to Illinois or New York? Why do your sanctuary
policies encourage, why did this guy that killed my daughter,
why was he in my state? Why?
Governor Hochul. Representative----
Mr. Higgins. Do not tell me it is limited resources.
Governor Hochul. Representative----
Mr. Higgins. Do not tell me it is limited resources. I will
let you know when it is time for you to answer the question,
Ma'am. Do not tell me it is limited resources because we are
talking about the resource of righteousness and goodness, and
God controls the bank of righteousness and goodness, and there
is no limit to that withdrawal. Governor Pritzker, what do you
tell a family when they ask you why, why was this murderer in
my state that came here across the border illegally and was
encouraged to come to my state by your policies? Go.
Governor Pritzker. You said invited or encouraged. Fifty
thousand people were----
Mr. Higgins. Yes, invited and encouraged by sanctuary
policy.
Governor Pritzker. Fifty thousand people were shipped to my
state----
Mr. Higgins. Yes, yes, yes.
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. By a border state
governor.
Mr. Higgins. Do not beat around the bush. Own it, man. Own
it.
Governor Pritzker. I am not beating around. I am telling
you, 50,000 people were shipped to my state by a Republican
border state governor.
Mr. Higgins. Would you ship them back? Fifty thousand is a
smidgen. We have 15 million cross the border.
Governor Pritzker. I understand.
Mr. Higgins. I am glad they bussed some to your state----
Governor Pritzker. And I have----
Mr. Higgins [continuing]. Because you need to face it.
Governor Pritzker. And I have been clear about----
Mr. Higgins. Your sanctuary policies.
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. About favoring border
security.
Mr. Higgins. Governor Hochul----
Governor Pritzker. There was a bill last year on that very
subject, sir.
Mr. Higgins [continuing]. I will give you the last couple
seconds here. Governor Hochul.
Governor Pritzker. And you opposed it.
Governor Hochul. On the question of what I would say to
that family, I would say my heart is breaking for you. I am a
mother. When you describe the pain of a family like that, I
have been there. I have held victims' families in my arms.
Mr. Higgins. That is a good start.
Governor Hochul. And I will tell you this. You appear to be
a religious person.
Mr. Higgins. Mr. Chairman, my time has expired. I yield.
Governor Hochul. We are called----
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired.
The Chair recognizes Ms. Lee from Pennsylvania.
Mr. Lynch. Mr. Chairman? Mr. Chairman?
Chairman Comer. Oh, oh, I recognize the Ranking Member for
a unanimous consent.
Mr. Lynch. Okay. A couple of things. One, I want to raise a
point of order. It is against the rules to attack or to breach
the decorum with respect to our witnesses. You cannot----
Mr. Higgins. Well, the Ranking Member has a different
definition of ``attack'' than I do, that is for sure.
Mr. Lynch. You look like this or you look like that. You
cannot criticize the countenance of a witness when they come
before the committee. You can raise issues, no question, but
you cannot personally attack a witness. That is not within the
rules. That is not in accordance with decorum here, and I would
raise that same concern if one of our Members was attacking.
Ms. Boebert. Did the Ranking Member not call us Nazis?
Chairman Comer. All right. All right.
Mr. Lynch. Secondly. Secondly.
Chairman Comer. Proceed with the unanimous consent.
Mr. Lynch. Second, unanimous consent. I ask unanimous
consent to submit a document entitled, ``Trump wants to cut
funding to sanctuary cities and towns, but they don't actually
violate Federal law.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
The Chair now recognizes Ms. Lee from Pennsylvania.
Ms. Lee. Yes. Thanks, Mr. Chair. It is always funny the
lack of decorum that we get, and we do drop the gentleman act
here oftentimes when attacking women who are not able to defend
themselves with equal time, but that is kind of the theme here,
right? Attacking Americans or people who are not able to defend
themselves, or at least who Republicans hope cannot defend
themselves, and that is what we are seeing, essentially, in Los
Angeles. So, I would say that this hearing is quite timely.
What is happening with ICE in the military in Los Angeles is
terrifying, and it is directly caused by Trump's policies and
his cruelty.
It was Trump's overzealous ICE agents who started this
specific incident, and now they want us to get bogged down and
arguing over the right types of protests or the right types of
way or the right way to defend yourself, the mythical perfect
type so that we could ignore that Trump is the one who is
escalating all of this. Trump is the one who ordered in
thousands of national guardsmen over the objection of Governor
Newsom, something that has not been done since 1965. Trump is
the one deploying Marines, not on an enemy abroad, but on the
American people who are exercising their First Amendment right
in this instance, the only opportunity that they have to defend
themselves against lawless lawmakers who are imposing cruelty
upon them.
For a party of so-called law and order folks, they sure are
stampeding over people's constitutional rights and
intentionally inciting more chaos, more fear, more anxiety, and
increasing the likelihood that people will get hurt. In the
end, what is happening in Los Angeles is just one of many
incidents where Trump and his Administration have not given a
single damn about people's safety. For one, the ICE and
Department of Homeland Security (DHS) agents that are arresting
people and raiding places often do not even have any kind of
uniform or identifying badge. They are masked, and they are in
unmarked cars. Ms. Perryman, just briefly, why is it so
dangerous to have masked, plainclothes ICE agents arresting
people?
Ms. Perryman. Thank you, Congresswoman, for your question.
I will go back to what I said before, that we know our
Constitution recognizes and our country recognizes the
importance of trust between local law enforcement, the Federal
Government, and governors. And what we are seeing here is a
breach of trust, it is an escalation, and it is dangerous for
the American people.
Ms. Lee. Trump said he was only going to go after
undocumented criminals, but that is clearly not the case.
Whether through incompetence or straight-up racial profiling,
ICE and DHS agents are wrongfully arresting U.S. citizens, we
have talked about it today, and catching these mistakes often
happens too late after an American citizen has already been
illegally thrown into another country, and Trump's
Administration is doing nothing to get them back. These agents
are also going into previously protected spaces, as we have
discussed, like churches and schools and hospitals. DHS agents
tried to get into an elementary school by lying that they had
the permission from the parents. That is a cartoonish level of
evil. ICE also arrested a Massachusetts high school senior,
Marcela Gomez de Silva, on his way to volleyball practice.
Governor Walz, you are a former teacher and coach. Do you
think these kinds of actions create instability for students,
and do you worry about increasing anxiety of kids coming to
school?
Governor Walz. Well, thank you, Congresswoman. I certainly
do. Creating that safe environment where our kids can come and
the expectation is to learn, they certainly do. Once again,
there is no reason to use these enforcement actions at those
locations when there are other tools. And I think, again, this
false equivalency that we do not want violent criminals to be
arrested, detained, and go through due process, we do, but
hugely detrimental to the educational system, hugely
detrimental to a system that is dependent on trust and the
goodwill of everyone in that school system. So yes, it is
detrimental.
Ms. Lee. Thank you, Governor Walz. These same kids getting
arrested are often being separated from their families. They
are scared. They are alone. An attorney is one of the few
resources they had access to. That is now being taken away as
well. The Trump Administration has canceled contracts with
legal groups that represent those undocumented children in
immigration court. This is going to force thousands of kids as
young as two years old to represent themselves. Very quickly,
as we are running out of time, Ms. Perryman, how is a 2-year-
old supposed to represent themselves in court?
Ms. Perryman. A 2-year-old cannot represent itself in
court, him or herself in court, and I will just say that we are
in court every single day seeking to try to ensure that people
have access to legal representation, which, of course, this
Administration is really seeking to curtail. They are seeking
to ignore due process rights.
Ms. Lee. I was going to say, would you say that it is due
process if a 2-year-old is left to represent themselves?
Ms. Perryman. Absolutely, it is a flagrant violation of our
Constitution. It is also something that shocks the conscience.
Ms. Lee. We will leave it there. Thank you. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The witnesses have requested a 15-minute
bathroom break, but before we do that, I am going to go to Dr.
Foxx for 5 minutes of questions. After Dr. Foxx, we will take a
15-minute break for the witnesses, and then we will start back
with Mr. Casar. So, the Chair recognizes Dr. Foxx from North
Carolina for 5 minutes.
Ms. Foxx. Thank you very, much Mr. Chairman. Governor Walz,
as you are aware, Minnesota saw the largest COVID-19 fraud
scheme in the Nation. The so-called nonprofit, Feeding Our
Future, falsely claimed to have served 91 million meals to
children for which it received nearly $250 million in Federal
funds. According to the FBI, the $250 million in Federal
taxpayer money was ``funneled into luxury homes, cars, and
lavish lifestyles while families struggled.'' In March, two
individuals were convicted in connection with this case, and I
understand related investigation continues.
The FBI stated that, ``The egregious fraud uncovered in the
Feeding Our Future case represents the blatant betrayal of
public trust. The FBI will not allow criminals to rob Federal
programs and walk away unscathed. We will expose their schemes,
dismantle their networks, and ensure they face the full weight
of justice.'' Do you support the Federal Government's efforts
to bring to justice those who stole Federal taxpayer money at
the expense of hungry children in your state?
Governor Walz. Thank you, Dr. Foxx. Wholeheartedly, and
this is a great example when the Federal Government works with
the state, we reported it, they prosecuted them, they are
imprisoned.
Ms. Foxx. So, do you support Federal efforts to bring to
justice those who commit Federal crimes in Minnesota?
Governor Walz. I most certainly do.
Ms. Foxx. Okay. Does Minnesota honor ICE detainer requests?
Governor Walz. Congresswoman, thank you for the question. I
have been making sure I get my opportunity here. Minnesota
follows all Federal law. State law requires, and I would say
this, state law requires all state and county facilities to ask
for immigration status when a convicted felon is committed and
tells DHS if they are undocumented, all state facilities. DOC
calls DHS before a convicted felon leaves prison. We have a
controlled handover. ICE is----
Ms. Foxx. How can we be sure that your state is serious
about cooperating with the Federal Government to enforce our
immigration laws?
Governor Walz. We do it on a daily basis, Congresswoman,
and again, I say this is the floor. Counties can do more, but
here is the confusion we have right now. Last week, a list of
supposed sanctuary cities or counties were put out. Many of
those were counties in Minnesota that had gone above and
beyond. Their sheriffs said it put them at risk because they
were doing that. They were sharing information and doing what
they are supposed to do. It is a coordination issue, and----
Ms. Foxx. But you said in your answer it is only if they
have been convicted of crimes that you----
Governor Walz. Or a judicial warrant. Or a judicial
warrant, that is correct, after due process has been served.
Ms. Foxx. So, you do not cooperate if they are illegally
here and the ICE comes to get them.
Governor Walz. If they have gone through the process,
Congresswoman, and they have received due process, and ICE's
job is to come and get them. It is what I have been saying all
day.
Ms. Foxx. But if they are here illegally, then they are
here illegally. They have broken the law already. That is a
given.
Governor Walz. Many are here as asylum seekers.
Ms. Foxx. That is a given that they have broken the law.
Governor Walz. They have overstayed a visa.
Ms. Foxx. I have another question to ask you, Governor. As
I have said before in this Committee, innocent American
taxpayers are collateral damage in the Democrats' pursuit of
open border policies. Americans pay with their wallets, their
safety, and, all too often, their lives. This is unacceptable.
I am sure you are aware, Governor, that your state has spent
hundreds of millions of state taxpayer dollars to address the
surge of illegal aliens in Minnesota. Are you also aware of any
non-governmental organizations (NGO) operating in your state
that provide services to illegal aliens, and have those NGO's
received any Federal funding?
Governor Walz. I cannot answer that at this time. I do not
have it in front of me.
Ms. Foxx. Well, we have to end the shameful practice of
NGO's working against immigration law enforcement efforts. That
is why I introduced H.R. 245, the Grant Integrity and Border
Security Act to stop NGO's who work against U.S. laws from
receiving a single cent of taxpayer funds. Americans should
never tolerate a government that uses their own tax money
against them, and, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady yields back. Before we
recess, I recognize the Ranking Member for a UC.
Mr. Lynch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I ask you unanimous
consent to submit an article from the Seattle Times, entitled,
``National sheriff's association head tears into fed's
sanctuary list.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Pursuant to the previous order, the Committee will stand in
recess for 15 minutes. The Committee stands in recess.
[Recess.]
Chairman Comer. The Committee will attempt to come back in
order. I will give the witnesses a second to find their seats,
and then we will recognize the next questioner.
[Pause.]
Chairman Comer. Thank you all. The Chair now recognizes Mr.
Casar from Texas for 5 minutes.
Mr. Casar. Good afternoon, Governors. Republicans have
dragged you in today for questioning because they say your
immigration policies are dangerous for American citizens, so I
want to ask each of you some questions about recent events
affecting U.S. citizens. Governor Pritzker, was it your
administration or was it the Trump Administration that arrested
a 10-year-old U.S. citizen recovering from brain cancer and
sent her to Mexico?
Governor Pritzker. It was the Trump Administration, sir.
Mr. Casar. Correct, that was the Trump Administration.
Governor Walz, was it your administration or was it the Trump
Administration that jailed an American for days, alleging he
was in the country illegally, despite him being a U.S. citizen?
Governor Walz. I believe that was the Trump Administration.
Mr. Casar. That is correct. That was the Trump
Administration. Governor Hochul, was it your administration or
was it the Trump Administration that arrested a totally
innocent U.S. citizen pregnant woman who wound up in the
hospital after her detention?
Governor Hochul. Those horrific situations are all the
results of the Trump Administration's over-enforcement of our
laws.
Mr. Casar. That was just this week, and that is correct.
Governor Hochul. That is right.
Mr. Casar. That was the Trump Administration. Let me be
clear: Democratic governors who are trying to protect the
rights of all of us are not the real danger that we face.
Donald Trump's reckless immigration policies are what is
putting us at risk, U.S. citizens included. Trump and his
puppets here in Congress put out a constant stream of lies
about immigration, so let me summarize what is really going on
here.
Trump has ordered law enforcement agencies to focus not on
violent criminals but on indiscriminately rounding up as many
people as possible. Trump is targeting people going to work at
Home Depot and 7-Eleven, ignoring gangs. Trump is targeting
people trying to follow the rules and go to a court hearing,
ignoring those who commit real violence. And then there are the
kids. Imagine just for a moment that they are your kids: law
enforcement raids at our schools, kids with their hands zip
tied behind their backs, multiple U.S. citizen children with
cancer deported to foreign countries separated from their
treatment, their care, and their doctors. This is not just
about immigrant families. Donald Trump is undermining the
rights that protect all of us, no matter who we are and where
we come from.
People are being arrested without ever having been accused
of a crime, held for days without contact with their families
or their lawyers. People are being deported in violation of
judicial orders. Trump also is going after anyone who dares try
to put up guardrails against this, arresting judges, arresting
mayors, arresting Members of Congress and union leaders. This
is not law. This is not order. This is chaos, and it is
dangerous for all of us.
Around the country right now, people are peacefully
protesting to show the world the awful things the Trump
Administration is doing: tearing families and communities
apart, ignoring the rule of law, making us all less safe. And
please know, if you are one of those peaceful demonstrators, I
hear you. I see you. I have your back. So many of you are
suffering because someone you love is terrified or has been
unjustly taken away from you by this Administration, but Donald
Trump does not want people to hear your message. That is why he
has taken National Guard troops and the Marines away from their
jobs and has sent them to Los Angeles, breaking all the rules
about how protests like this are handled. Trump and Governor
Abbott have even sent troops to my district in downtown San
Antonio, a place that has been perfectly orderly and peaceful,
because, as always, we know Donald Trump is trying to stoke up
chaos and division, and he does not care who gets hurt in the
process. He wants to start a fire, pour gasoline on it, and
blame somebody else for the flames.
So, if you are watching at home and you see images of
disorder or chaos in the coming days, remember this: it is
Donald Trump's fire. It is him who lit the fire, and he does
not care if the rest of us get burned. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. The Chair now
recognizes Mr. Fallon from Texas.
Mr. Fallon. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Governor Walz, would
you say that one of the most important things any governor or,
quite frankly, any elected official can do is to keep their
citizens and constituents safe?
Governor Walz. I would, Congressman.
Mr. Fallon. Great. I would agree, and I ask this because
when I was reading your bio that you provided, nowhere did you
mention the safety and security of Minnesotans or fighting
crime or supporting law enforcement, or, for that matter, the
rule of law, so I want to take you back to 2020. You are the
Governor of Minnesota. There were summer protests. You referred
to them as peaceful demonstrations. In hindsight, would you
still stand by that? Were they mostly peaceful?
Governor Walz. Congressman, after the murder of George
Floyd on the streets, thousands gathered in the streets. Were
there those that----
Mr. Fallon. But Governor, were they mostly peaceful
protests?
Governor Walz. The vast majority certainly were.
Mr. Fallon. They were?
Governor Walz. Those that were not----
Mr. Fallon. So, why would you have to call out the National
Guard for mostly peaceful protests?
Governor Walz. They were not all peaceful protests.
Mr. Fallon. Okay. So, they were not, all right, mostly. So,
Governor, the total damage in dollars, what was that in
Minnesota for the peaceful protests?
Governor Walz. I do not have that in front----
Mr. Fallon. All right. According to the insurance industry
in Minnesota, they put the number between $1 and $2 billion,
and your own state senate put the price tag at $500 million.
So, if that is a peaceful protest in Minnesota, I shudder to
think what a violent one would cost.
Governor Walz. I did not call it a peaceful protest.
Mr. Fallon. Governor, I like to keep things simple.
Governor Walz. I did not call it that.
Mr. Fallon. Okay.
Governor Walz. We had folks who were there.
Mr. Fallon. Okay.
Governor Walz. And they are in prison.
Mr. Fallon. Okay. great. I would like to keep things simple
as far as when we talk about Federal detainers, and I have
talked to several Federal law enforcement officials about this.
So, a detainer is issued when someone is already in custody and
confined--jail, prison, court. It is not somebody just plucked
off the street randomly, and there are really three conditions,
and it is and/or probable cause that a foreign national is
subject to removal from this country, final deportation order
has been issued, or it is a foreign national that has been
convicted of a crime and is about to be released. So, sanctuary
states will not cooperate with Federal law enforcement. In
Minnesota, do you cooperate sometimes, never, or all the time?
Governor Walz. We follow Federal law in all 87 counties and
all the jurisdictions. Some of them do honor detainer requests.
Mr. Fallon. Some do, and some do not.
Governor Walz. That is correct.
Mr. Fallon. Okay.
Governor Walz. Counties have the ability.
Mr. Fallon. Okay. So, Governor, would you commit here and
now, and this is really simple; I think it is commonsensical--
to compel state and locals in Minnesota to cooperate with all
Federal detainers issued by Federal law enforcement when it
involves a foreign national that has been convicted of a
felony. And I am talking about kidnappers, rapists, child
molesters, murderers, predators, parasites, scumbags, in all
those instances.
Governor Walz. Convicted of a felony, being held by my
state corrections, every time we call.
Mr. Fallon. Every single time you are going to do that in
Minnesota.
Governor Walz. Every time we call them and have them come
pick it up. What I would ask you to commit to is are you going
to fund ICE, what they do not pay us, on detainers?
Mr. Fallon. Well, listen, on detainers and on ICE, I do not
call them the Gestapo, and this is my definition of Gestapo,
Governor: real Nazis from 1933 to 1945 that facilitated and
participated in the murder of millions. I do not call Federal
law enforcement officers Gestapo. You were recently quoted.
Where is the apology?
Governor Walz. Donald Trump----
Mr. Fallon. Oh no, Donald Trump. Listen, Donald Trump is
not here.
Governor Walz. Yes.
Mr. Fallon. You are, Governor.
Governor Walz. Yes.
Mr. Fallon. You are a big boy. Put your big boy pants on.
Governor Walz. I would ask, do not wear masks. Identify who
you are. Do not pull up in an unmarked car.
Mr. Fallon. Governor, you called them Gestapo. Will you
apologize for that?
Governor Walz. You do not pull people----
Mr. Fallon. Will you apologize for that?
Governor Walz. Congressman, my job--I am a history----
Mr. Fallon. Okay. So, you will not, okay. We are going to
move on.
Governor Walz. I used a historical reference.
Mr. Fallon. Mr. Chairman, I reclaim my time if you will not
answer the question. I think that is hyperbolic demagoguery. I
mean, you said that in a speech. Maybe you got a little carried
away. I do not know if you apologized for that, too, that you
were ``going to kick Republicans' asses.'' I mean, I did not
say that. You said it, and that is dangerous rhetoric,
especially when you use ``Gestapo.'' That is lazy, too, and it
is terribly inaccurate. The fact of the matter is, time and
again, you have excused violence, and you use dangerous,
irresponsible rhetoric. And you can choose between being on the
side of law enforcement or the side of vicious criminals, and
you have chosen the latter time and again. I do not know why.
Maybe it is because you want to impress your limousine liberal
friends when you are eating wine and cheese or you are getting
your coffee every morning at the hemp store. I do not know, but
I think it is ignorant and I think it is culpable, and I think
it is disgusting. I can see why the American people on November
5 made it very bad night for you and a very great night for our
future. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes--is Ms. Crockett
here? Okay. The Chair recognizes Mr. Bell from Missouri.
Mr. Bell. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and our witnesses for being
here today. I think that it is important for leaders to be
honest and understand the nuance of issues. And as my
grandmother used to say, all the easy problems have already
been solved, we are left with the tough ones, and so it is
important to our constituents that we are explaining the nuance
in these issues, and this hearing is yet another attempt at
dismantling the system of power and the rule of law in America.
The Administration's threats to withhold funding and
resources from states to coerce them to adhere to Federal
immigration law is unconstitutional, period. The deployment of
Federal troops without authorization is unconstitutional,
period. Masked, unidentified ICE agents snatching people off
the streets is unconstitutional, period. And since my colleague
brought this up, Governor Walz, I am a former prosecutor. Is it
good precedence to allow masked men to show up and take people
off the streets, not even identifying themselves?
Governor Walz. No, and it also puts law enforcement at
risk.
Mr. Bell. Absolutely, and there is this criminal element
who might say, hmm, we can kidnap people, we can rob people,
come with masks, identify ourselves as ICE, and someone may not
know what they can do. Is that correct?
Governor Walz. Well, if I am not mistaken, I thought
yesterday I saw that that very thing happened. Someone
identified themselves as ICE and committed a crime, yes. Look,
you wear the badge for a reason, you wear the name for a
reason, and you make sure that you are coordinated with those
other law enforcement agencies are there. It is a dangerous
situation for everyone.
Mr. Bell. Absolutely. And so, Governors, quickly, as it
relates to criminal trends in your state, are illegal
immigrants more or less likely to commit serious violent
crimes?
Governor Pritzker. It is clear that immigrants commit crime
at a lower rate than the rest of our population.
Mr. Bell. Studies suggest that illegal immigrants were
about half as likely as U.S. citizens to commit an offense
serious enough to result in incarceration, and it seems to me
that we are redirecting critical resources from communities to
address immigration when, statistically, immigrants commit less
serious crimes. And this misalignment risks undermining
community stability by deprioritizing other high public safety
concerns, which you all have to deal with. And so, I would like
to ask quickly, too, Ms. Perryman, are you familiar, and I am
not sure if you are because this was out of the State House in
Missouri. Are you familiar with the Second Amendment
Preservation Act?
Ms. Perryman. Is that the act, Congressman, where the State
House in Missouri sought to pass a law that it would not
cooperate with Federal law enforcement?
Mr. Bell. Particularly with gun cases, yes, ma'am. And so,
I am a little confused, and I would love for my Republican
colleagues to clear this confusion up. On one hand when it
involves immigration, they are saying that states like
yourselves should do the job for them, reallocate resources
from places that you are doing tremendous work in, to do the
Federal Government's job; but when it comes to gun violence,
Missouri passed a law forbidding local police from cooperating
with Federal law enforcement. And so, I got to ask, in your
respective communities, is gun violence a problem? Governor
Hochul.
Governor Hochul. Any incidence of violence is a problem for
us, but I am proud that after investing nearly $3 billion in
law enforcement since I have been governor, our crime rates are
trending downward, particularly violent crimes, and a place
like New York City had the lowest crime rate in May in history.
Mr. Bell. And I am going to reclaim just because I am short
on time.
Governor Hochul. Lowest murder rates.
Mr. Bell. But gun violence is a concern. Would that be safe
to say, Governors?
Governor Walz. Yes.
Governor Hochul. It is. It is absolutely a concern, yes.
Mr. Bell. And so, when local law enforcement and Federal
law enforcement work together to curb gun violence, which
protects all of us and all of our families, I do not hear
Republicans complaining about the fact that local law
enforcement is literally barred, until the Supreme Court
overturned this, barred from working with Federal officials.
And I think it is just about hypocrisy to suggest in this
situation that you should be forced to take the finite
resources that you have to do the Federal Government's job.
That is my time. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Sessions from
Texas.
Mr. Sessions. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. To our
friend, Mr. Walz, welcome back. The opportunity that we have
today to talk about this brings up a lot of issues. I think we
all understand and we know this, there are over 600,000 migrant
children that crossed the border without supervision from 2020
forward--600,000 children. We are sitting here arguing about a
lot of things, but during the Biden Administration, they took
no steps, none, to affect, and this is from an Office of
Inspector General (IG) report. They were unprepared. They did
not know what they were doing. They let people come across.
They did not check. They just took people's word for it. Of
those, 233 migrant children were never even given dates to
appear in an immigration court, no dates by the Biden
Administration. Here, come on in. Here you go.
I would suggest to you that each of you are participatory
for bringing people because of your words, your words of New
York is open, Illinois is open for business, we want you to
come, we want you to be here, and terrible things have happened
in our country as a result of a false promise. I know you are
perfectly willing to pay millions of dollars to people out of
your own coffers, but the bottom line is they came through
Texas and other areas, and it caused a great deal of carnage
and harm, and these migrants are in trouble. They are in
trouble. The entire pathway to be taken advantage of and to
cause harm, not just to themselves but other people.
I would submit to you, all three of you, have encouraged
people to come, and the numbers are stunning about the numbers
of not just people that got caught, but those people that came
here who have criminal records--criminal records--and they
appear on terrorist watch lists. And I would ask each of you,
are you aware that when you put your open come to America sign,
come to the State of Minnesota, come to Illinois, come to New
York, are you aware that you were doing that where there would
not be a background check, where there would be people who
would openly hear this, who were criminals and terrorists, and
they evaded this process and overwhelmed law enforcement. You
created a gold rush. You created a rush whereby people came,
and the entire pathway is littered with not only brand-new
areas, and the number of communities that now participate under
280(g) has exploded, and that is because it is the drug
cartel's plan to have someone in every single city around
America.
In Texas, it used to be Dallas, Houston, San Antonio,
Austin, maybe Fort Worth and El Paso. Now it is smaller cities,
even in the congressional district that I represent. They
brought their marketing team with them because there are people
who still owe the cartels. This is not a new story. Vice
President Biden, he spoke about receiving a briefing from Drug
Enforcement Administration (DEA), understanding there were
people that had to pay off the cartels for being here. Each and
every one of you have participated. Each and every one of you
have put a green light out--please, come, be with us, we will
take care of you--and it has caused carnage. Governor Walz.
Governor Walz. Well, thank you, Congressman. First of all,
I think the idea of a nation of immigrants, no one asked for
folks who were----
Mr. Sessions. Illegal.
Governor Walz. [continuing]. Illegally. Absolutely not.
Mr. Sessions. We bring in over a million people----
Governor Walz. Absolutely not.
Mr. Sessions [continuing]. That legally go through a
process, know what our rules are. We do background checks.
Governor Walz. That is why we need a----
Mr. Sessions. We are talking about millions of people, no
background check.
Governor Walz. We need to make sure the legal process is
done and those that should not be here are not.
Mr. Sessions. Okay. That is your viewpoint now. That is not
what has been said in the past. That is not what Governor
Hochul said at the period of time when people were flooding in.
It was seen as being okay, just come. Governor Pritzker.
Governor Pritzker. Thank you, Congressman. As a great
grandson of an immigrant to this country, I can tell you that
my views about immigration are that it is a positive for this
Nation in general. Immigration is----
Mr. Sessions. Legally.
Governor Pritzker. Legal immigration. Now, let us talk
about what has happened over, certainly, the last 40 years if
not much longer, which is----
Mr. Sessions. Why don't we go the last four because we have
never ever had----
Governor Pritzker. I understand.
Mr. Sessions [continuing]. Anything like the last four. Let
us not put this into a context of history. Let us put it under
you as governor, your public comments, Governor Walz's
comments, and Governor Hochul's public comments to encourage
people to break the law, to come through my state and cause
carnage, and drug cartels to have people now where they have a
marketing organization everywhere to where communities have to
have a 287(g) problem because they have people staying where
they had never stayed before.
Governor Pritzker. Well, that mischaracterizes things that
I have said. Let me just be clear. We have had 40 years of
failure at the border and failure of immigration policy. We
will talk about the last four years, right? There were people
that came to the border, because the Federal Government decided
that, because there is law that allows this----
Mr. Sessions. There was not law that allowed it. There was
a presidential directive.
Governor Pritzker. Okay. Fair enough. We are not in charge
of the border in Illinois, I can tell you that. We do not have
a border with a foreign country----
Mr. Sessions. Well, you encouraged knowing there would be--
--
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. Other than we have Lake
Michigan between us and Canada.
Mr. Sessions [continuing]. Knowing there would be tens of
thousands of children that would come. Governor Hochul.
Governor Pritzker. We had 50,000 people who came from Texas
because they were shipped to us, and let me tell you, I was in
favor of helping Texas, helping Texas, indeed find a way to
provide for them. We as a Nation should be welcoming people to
this country.
Mr. Sessions. Well, not illegally.
Governor Pritzker. Handling----
Mr. Sessions. That is the difference, and you need to say
that. Mr. Chairman, I know my time is up. I would like to ask
unanimous consent to enter into the record the United States
Department of Homeland Security Management reports, August 19,
2024, March 2025, where unaccompanied alien children----
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
The Chair recognizes the Ranking Member for a unanimous
consent.
Mr. Lynch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, have a
unanimous consent request for an article from The Nation
magazine, dated May 23, 2025, entitled, ``Trump Wants Thousands
of Migrant Children to Represent Themselves in Court.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
The Chair recognizes Ms. Tlaib.
Ms. Tlaib. Thank you, Mr. Chair. To all the witnesses, all
of our Governors, thank you for being here. I want to start
with questions, just really quick. Yes or no, do you believe in
due process for everyone no matter their immigration status?
Governor Pritzker. I do.
Governor Walz. I do.
Governor Hochul. Yes.
Ms. Tlaib. What if they did not vote for you?
Governor Walz. I still support them.
Ms. Tlaib. Does not matter, right?
Governor Walz. I represent everyone in my state.
Ms. Tlaib. They disagree with you on immigration. They
disagree with you on climate, lesbian, gay, bisexual,
transgender, queer or questioning (LGBTQ), right? All of you?
Governor Pritzker. We take care of everyone who lives in
our state.
Ms. Tlaib. So, what about Palestinian human rights? I will
start with you, Governor.
Governor Walz. Yes, support.
Governor Pritzker. Human rights for everyone, yes.
Palestinians.
Ms. Tlaib. Do you believe they deserve due process even if
you disagreed with them on Palestinian human rights position?
Governor Walz. Yes.
Ms. Tlaib. Governor.
Governor Pritzker. Yes, and by the way, we have----
Ms. Tlaib. Well, Governor Hochul----
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. A Palestinian-American
population.
Ms. Tlaib. Oh, I know. I am aware of that.
Governor Pritzker. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Tlaib. Governor Hochul, how about you?
Governor Hochul. Yes, we do.
Ms. Tlaib. Your constituent, Mahmoud Khalil, is still in
ICE detention. Are you aware of him?
Governor Hochul. Very much so, and I am hoping he is
returned home on Friday because----
Ms. Tlaib. Yes, we are working on that. So, he is a legal
permanent resident.
Governor Hochul. He has been denied due process.
Ms. Tlaib. I know. This is important. He is a legal
permanent resident. He was kidnapped over three months ago, and
one of the things I want to do is, if I may, Chairman, submit
for the record a letter from Mahmoud Khalil to his son who was
born while he was kidnapped and illegally detained by our
country.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Tlaib. I am going to read a little bit from what he
wrote to his son. ``I waited on the other line, end of the
phone, as your mother labored to bring you into this world. I
listened to your pain breaths.'' Do you understand they had to
put the phone next to his wife birthing his child while he was
illegally detained. ``I listened to your pained breaths''--her
pain breaths--``and tried to speak comforting words into her
ear over a crackling line. During your first moments, I buried
my face in my arms and kept my voice low so that the 70 other
men sleeping in this concrete room would not see my cloudy eyes
or hear my voice catch,'' the cruelty of what is happening in
our country. Everyone, to all my colleagues, should understand
the human toll of separation of families. Read this letter.
Take a moment.
Governor Hochul, sometimes I feel like because he is
Palestinian, you did not speak up enough, and I say that as a
Palestinian-American serving here in Congress. We all need to
always support due process for everyone, no matter if you
disagree with them politically or not. The judge said they
might release him on Friday. You should use this opportunity,
Governor Hochul, to redeem yourself and welcome that decision.
I urge you to all protect your constituents' constitutional
rights no matter if you disagree with them politically,
including the right to boycott, right, Governor Pritzker?
Governor Pritzker. Including the right to protest, boycott,
do whatever.
Ms. Tlaib. That is right. I want to discuss the next item.
This is a person that is now, I believe, already on a plane
to Columbia. This is Maykol Bogoya Duarte from Southwest
Detroit. He was on his way to a field trip while local police
racially profiled him, said, oh, he don't speak English, let me
call Border Patrol. He spoke English just fine. That set in
motion to separate him from his mother and his community. He
was 3.5 credits away from graduating high school. To us, he was
our son. Our son. He was not a criminal. He was trying to do
the right thing. He had attorneys at a nonprofit legal agency.
And, you know, Governors, I think about him and his trip, and
he is there and he is with all his friends, and he is trying to
experience this beautiful thing that we all have experienced.
But what makes me angry about the fact that he went on this
flight, he is probably in Columbia now without his family,
without his school community, without his classmates, is that
many of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, maybe
some on mine, their donors benefit from a broken and humane
immigration system. The President of the United States
benefited financially and personally by having a broken
immigration system that keeps our immigrant neighbors in a
broken system that does not allow them to come out of the
shadows. Why? Because that is cheap labor. Let us be honest.
They are arresting dishwashers, people at Home Depot that work,
and their donors benefit. You know it. The restaurant industry
benefits. They know exactly what they are doing. If they even
wanted to fix this immigration system, they would go to the
people that are employing them, and we know it.
Now detention centers. Guess who is going to benefit from
private detention centers and holding our immigrant neighbors?
Their donors. So, shame on us in bringing these Governors here
when we know exactly what is happening here. This is all for
profit, all for cruelty and fear and division. Fix our economic
system in our country. People are starving. People cannot
afford basic needs, and you are ripping our loved ones away
from us because you do not have the courage to fix our broken
immigration system. It has been inhumane for decades. Shame on
us, both Democrats and Republicans, for not doing what is right
in this chamber and doing what is right for the American people
in making sure we are not separating families. With that, Mr.
Chair, I yield.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Palmer from
Alabama.
Mr. Palmer. Thank you, Mr. Chair. First of all, I want to
point out that under Article XI, the Constitution Supremacy
Clause, that by declaring your states sanctuary states, you
declared your intent to violate Federal law. With that, are you
aware that illegal aliens with known ties to terrorist
organizations are now residing in the United States? That is a
``yes'' or ``no.'' Quickly, yes or no, Governor Walz?
Governor Walz. I do not have firsthand knowledge, but I
would assume so, yes.
Mr. Palmer. You should have. Governor Pritzker?
Governor Pritzker. I know that has been alleged. I do not
have firsthand knowledge myself.
Mr. Palmer. You should have. Governor Hochul?
Governor Hochul. My joint terrorism task force has
surveillance----
Mr. Palmer. Ma'am, that is a ``yes'' or ``no.'' Either you
know or you do not.
Governor Hochul. We are aware.
Mr. Palmer. That is amazing considering that the Customs
Board Patrol reported just in Fiscal Year 2023, 736 encounters
with illegal aliens with ties to terrorist organizations, and
it is 2.2 million estimated got-aways. We have no idea how many
known terrorists are in our country. Do you support the arrest
and deportation of illegal aliens with ties to terrorist
organizations? Yes or no, Governor Walz?
Governor Walz. If due process is given, certainly.
Mr. Palmer. Governor Pritzker?
Governor Pritzker. Exactly. We need due process before we
arrest people.
Mr. Palmer. Governor Hochul, yes or no?
Governor Hochul. Anyone involved in a crime, we cooperate.
Mr. Palmer. Ma'am, yes or no?
Governor Hochul. We cooperate when----
Mr. Palmer. Ma'am, yes or no?
Governor Hochul. We cooperate with----
Mr. Palmer. You cannot give a straight answer, and the
answer is you are giving safe harbor to people with ties to
terrorist organizations. Are you aware of that? Let me tell
you, you are shielding members of known terrorist
organizations, such as MS-13; Tren de Aragua; Brown Pride
Aztecas; Barrio Azteca; Surenos, which is otherwise known as
Sur 13; and 18th Street Gang. Those are designated terrorist
organizations. These are the people responsible for bringing
fentanyl in that has killed, along with other drugs, killed
over a 100,000 people per year. We are no longer in a war on
drugs. We are involved in a war with drugs. These are
casualties. Are you aware that Department of Homeland Security
identified over 400 illegal aliens who were smuggled into the
United States with the help of an affiliate of Islamic State of
Iraq (ISIS)? Are you aware of that, Governor Walz?
Governor Walz. Congressman, I do not have direct knowledge
of that.
Mr. Palmer. Well, I will help you. Mr. Chairman, I would
like to enter into the record an article from NBC News, ``DHS
identifies over 400 migrants brought into the united states by
an is-affiliated human smuggling network.'' Is that a problem?
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Palmer. Does that raise any concern for you?
Governor Pritzker. None of us want terrorists in this
country, Congressman.
Mr. Palmer. Then why are you shielding people here from
being picked up by our ICE agents, referring to this as a
Gestapo organization? I never want to get up on another morning
like I did on September 11, 2001. There are people in this
country who are here with the full intent to do us harm. They
came across our borders illegally. Three hundred and fifty-
eight of them crossed the Northern border into New York. Not
all of them, into New York, but some of them came through New
York. There is arm smuggling across the Canadian border into
New York, and you are shielding these people.
Are you aware that if just one-half of one percent of the
estimated 15 million--14.7 million to be exact--that came into
our country illegally during the Biden Administration, if just
one-half of one percent are tied to criminal organizations or
terrorists organizations, that that constitutes more than the
combined active duty forces of the Army and Marines? Does that
hot strike you as something that should be of great concern to
us?
Governor Hochul. Since you raised New York, I would like to
answer.
Mr. Palmer. Are you aware?
Governor Hochul. We cooperate fully with all
investigations, particularly terrorists.
Mr. Palmer. Well, how do you know if they are terrorists?
Governor Hochul. And you cannot say ``9/11'' and not invoke
incredible emotion for us.
Mr. Palmer. How do you know, Governor Hochul, that they are
terrorists if you do not allow people to be picked up who came
here illegally to at least give an account for their presence?
Governor Hochul. We say that you should close the border.
Mr. Palmer. How do you know if they are not part of that
400 that we know came in through an ISIS-affiliated human
smuggling operation? You do not know. You are not even looking
into that.
Governor Hochul. You are pointing to an abject failure----
Mr. Palmer. No, I am not.
Governor Hochul. [continuing]. Of the Federal Government to
do its job to secure our borders.
Mr. Palmer. I am not pointing out at anything. What I am
pointing out here is that your sanctuary policies now
constitute a threat to our national security.
Governor Hochul. We cooperate in all criminal
investigations.
Mr. Palmer. You are engaged----
Governor Hochul. Always have, always will.
Mr. Palmer [continuing]. In operations against Federal
Government attempts to enforce Federal law that I think now
constitutes a threat to our national security, and you are in
violation of Federal law.
Governor Hochul. That is 100 percent false.
Mr. Palmer. And charges for obstruction should be brought
against each one of you for doing this. I will leave that up to
the Department of Justice. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Ms. Crockett from
Texas.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Mr. Chairman?
Ms. Crockett. And Mr. Chair?
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Point of order. Point of order. That was
intimidation of the witness.
Chairman Comer. Do you have a point of inquiry?
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Yes, I have a point of inquiry.
Chairman Comer. State your point.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Raising the prospect of charges against
witnesses is a form of intimidation, is it not?
Mr. Palmer. I strike those words. I strike those words.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you. Thank you, and I withdraw the
question. I appreciate it.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Ms. Crockett.
Ms. Crockett. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you so much
to our governors, and I want to say I apologize. I apologize
for the abuse that you are facing in this Committee that is
supposed to be about waste, fraud, and abuse, and I also
apologize for wasting your time because this is nothing more
than political theater. Now again, this Committee is supposed
to be about waste, fraud, and abuse. We did not have to have
this faux creation of DOGE. The Committee itself, that is our
job. So, what I want to talk about is something that the
American people may want to know, which is economically, how is
this impacting them, these failed immigration policies that are
only put on so that they can have a show because we have a
reality show President who seemingly still believes that this
is all about TV instead of real lives.
So, let me talk about something really quickly because I
want to clarify something because I believe that all of you
understand the importance of something like tourism. Any of
you, are you aware as to whether or not tourism in the United
States is anticipated to decrease to the extent that we are
estimated to lose $12.5 billion in international vendor
spending in just the year 2025?
Governor Hochul. I can answer as a tourism capital of the
country.
Ms. Crockett. I assume you could.
Governor Hochul. Tourism is already down. It is down in the
North Country where the Canadians refuse to come over because
of the hostility toward their country. It is happening in New
York City. It is happening at our sporting events, our theater.
There is a ripple effect throughout our entire economy because
of the change in attitude that our country, that once welcomed
people from all over the world to visit and recreate and to
live here, now feels like a very hostile place to them. It is
going to have an economic impact on our bottom line, without a
doubt.
Ms. Crockett. So, let us talk about it a little bit more.
So, I am supposed to have a number of FIFA games in Dallas, and
I am fully anticipating that we are going to have a problem
because I have been receiving phone calls that people do not
feel safe coming here. And it is not the immigrants, it is this
government that is making them feel unsafe. But let me also do
this, because they love to cherry pick. They can find any one
person that has been killed, and if they have been killed by an
immigrant, then god darn it, every single immigrant is going
out and they are killers, and that is the problem, but they do
not want to talk about white supremacy. I do not know how many
hearings we going to have about the fact that there has been
this one immigrant that killed this one person.
And, no, I am not excusing any killings by them or white
supremacists, but they have not had these hearings. We did not
have a hearing on Buffalo and what happened there. We did not
have a hearing on El Paso and what happened there. We did not
have a hearing on Charleston and what happened there. So, it is
interesting that they pick and choose because it seems like
they love to pal around with the white supremacists, and so
they do not want to talk about certain other things, but
economically, I want to make sure that we are making this point
again because I know that, Governor Pritzker, you are the
beneficiary of a lot of things from the State of Texas. A lot
of people believe that Republicans are fiscally responsible,
but instead, they are actually fiscally irresponsible because
what he spent was a whopping $221 million transporting people
from Texas to your state. Something tells me that he could have
done something else with that $221 million.
In addition to that, I know that there has been some
conversations about what is going on in LA, and they want to
say that it is riots because they did not want people to keep
talking about, say, the Epstein files or whatever other drama
was popping off between the President and his little friend.
So, they wanted to change the conversation to immigration
because they feel like, well, the polling is in our benefit,
but let me tell you something. If they cared about making sure
we were going to be fiscally responsible, they would tell the
American people that it cost them $134 million to send the
National Guard to LA for the ``riots'' that the governor did
not ask for, nor did the mayor of LA ask for, and they sent
them over there. And they say that they care about our service
members, yet they sent them and they were laying on the floor.
They did not provide for food. So, I do not know why we would
believe that, number one, they want to fix this. They do not
want to fix this because the brokenness is a feature, not a
flaw of the system because it is beneficial to them when it
comes to campaigning. If they cannot stoke fear, then why are
they going to, say, have anybody vote for them because that is
what people are doing. They are voting out of fear.
But Ms. Perryman, we know each other a little well, and I
know you got a law degree, and it seems like we all need law
degrees in here nowadays to understand the Constitution. So,
really briefly, I just want to make this point. There is a
certain person that was afforded, say, due process, but let us
say if, say, Donald Trump had been charged with all of these
cases that he got charged with in four different jurisdictions,
if he was not afforded due process, there could have been a
possibility that he just would have been locked up and thrown
somewhere, right?
Ms. Perryman. That would be a possibility.
Ms. Crockett. And then maybe we would not have a tariff
war, or anything else that we are dealing with, or all the
other nonsense. But the point is he was afforded due process,
and regardless of the political opposition, Democrats,
Republicans, and Independents, I thought, believe that due
process should be afforded to everybody, even him.
Ms. Perryman. Due process is for everyone.
Ms. Crockett. Okay. So, the Fifth Amendment does not say
that it is just for the people that are Americans?
Ms. Perryman. It does not.
Ms. Crockett. It says anybody on our soil?
Ms. Perryman. It is for everyone.
Ms. Crockett. Okay. It is pretty simple. I do not know why
we are having issues, but I thank you, and I will yield.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Dr. Gosar--oh, before
I recognize Dr. Gosar, Mr. Palmer has a unanimous consent
request.
Mr. Palmer. To enter into the record, testimony before,
actually before a subcommittee of Oversight and Government
Reform, Subcommittee on Federal Law Enforcement, from Joseph M.
Humire, who is----
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Tlaib. Mr. Chair, I have a unanimous consent.
Chairman Comer. Okay. Ms. Tlaib.
Ms. Tlaib. Can I please issue to the record a statement
from Senators Chang, Cavanagh, Santana and Bayer, in response
to the ICE detention and deportation of Maykol Bogoya-Duarte?
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Now, the Chair recognizes Dr. Gosar from Arizona.
Mr. Gosar. Governors, good afternoon.
Voices. Good afternoon.
Mr. Gosar. Would you agree that good process builds good
policy, builds good politics? Pretty normal, right? Would you
agree, Governor Pritzker?
Governor Pritzker. Yes, sir.
Mr. Gosar. How about you, Governor?
Governor Walz. I would agree, Congressman.
Mr. Gosar. Governor Hochul.
Governor Hochul. I would agree with that.
Mr. Gosar. Good. Now, would you support the disclosure of
Federal fundings to nonprofits either directly or indirectly?
Governor Pritzker.
Governor Pritzker. Federal funding of nonprofits, just
generally? There is, actually, nonprofits do report their----
Mr. Gosar. Well, they do kind of, because we do not get
that. That is all blocked out, okay? But you cannot make good
decisions if you do not have that. Would you agree?
Governor Pritzker. All of it is available, as I understand,
publicly, yes.
Mr. Gosar. Okay. Now I am going to quote U.S. Supreme Court
associate justice, Louis Brandeis. He said, ``In a government
of laws, existence of the government will be imperiled if it
fails to observe and uphold the law scrupulously. Our
government is potent, the omnipresent teacher for good or for
ill. It teaches the whole people by its example. If the
government becomes a lawbreaker, it invites contempt for the
law. It invites every man to become a law unto himself. It
invites anarchy.'' Governor Pritzker, do you agree with Louis
Brandeis on this quote? How about you, Governor Walz?
Governor Pritzker. I do. It is what the President Trump has
done, though.
Mr. Gosar. Oh, I am going to get to that.
Governor Pritzker. He is the one who has broken the law and
the U.S. Government.
Mr. Gosar. Governor Hochul.
Governor Hochul. We follow all the laws, Federal and State.
Mr. Gosar. Okay. So, why would I ask you about nonprofits
financing and this quote from Louise Brandeis? What if I were
to present you evidence that U.S. citizens and even foreign
citizens on foreign soil were coaching illegal aliens had
bypass U.S. immigration law? Now, let me remind you, as soon as
an alien crosses the border illegally, they become criminals
under the Federal law. Governors with sanctuary policies
blatantly ignore the Supremacy Clause, as Mr. Palmer expressed,
of the U.S. Constitution, and it circumvents Federal
immigration laws to harbor criminals. As of July 2024, under
the Biden-Harris Administration, there were over 660,000
illegal aliens with criminal histories in the United States,
but I am talking about everyone, not just criminals, once you
violate the law by entering our country illegally. Let me be
clear, you are aiding and abetting criminal illegal aliens,
which is a felony under Title 8 U.S. Code 1324, punishable up
to 20 years in prison or life in prison, or even the death
penalty, seems kind of weird, but if aiding and abetting
results in someone's death, which this Committee and all
Americans know has happened. Wouldn't you want to even err on
the aspect of caution? I would. I really would.
Now, Governor Hochul, do you like nature, and do you
consider yourself a conservationist? I do. I am one of those.
Governor Hochul. I am particularly fond of New York State's
great State Parks, so, yes, of course I love nature.
Mr. Gosar. Good. So, why would you allow illegal aliens to
destroy a National Park Service land at Floyd Bennett Field?
Yes, I was there. I got to see it all, but, I mean, even
putting people in that process. Well?
Governor Hochul. I would hardly call it a park. It was a
place that people used to train for military exercises, but----
Mr. Gosar. But you know what? Somebody founded it as a
park, right, did they not? It is considered a national park. It
is a park. Okay.
Governor Hochul. Technically, it is under the Department of
Interior.
Mr. Gosar. Okay. Governor Walz, do you know the estimated
size of milligram, of two milligrams?
Governor Walz. I think generally, yes.
Mr. Gosar. You can barely see. It is the tip of a pencil,
sharpened pencil at that, and that is a lethal dose of
fentanyl, which your running mate, Harris', open border
policies welcomed to the United States. Similarly, your
sanctuary policies are playing games with American lives. Do
the millions of lives lost to fentanyl constitute an all-out
all assault on our broken borders? They do. Yes or no, do you
support tribal communities, Governor Walz?
Governor Walz. Do I support tribal communities?
Mr. Gosar. Yes.
Governor Walz. Under PL 280? Yes, I certainly do.
Mr. Gosar. I do. Okay. What about the transnational
criminal cartels trafficking drugs and people across the tribal
lands? This is epidemic. Epidemic. So, I am going to finish up
by this. Governors, this is my promise to you. I will work
tirelessly with President Trump to secure the border, build the
wall, stop the fatal fentanyl into our Nation, and I will see
that you are held accountable for the violations of our crimes
against the people of the United States. Our immigration system
is not broken. We just needed somebody like Donald Trump to
uphold the rules of law. I pray for the safety of our
immigration ICE officers and all the officers, and I yield
back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. Ms. Crockett has
a unanimous consent request.
Ms. Crockett. Yes, Mr. Chair. I would like to submit a
unanimous consent request for--this is from the Alabama
Reflector. It says, ``Study says undocumented immigrants paid
almost $100 billion in taxes.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Crockett. And my second one is from Reuters, `` White
supremacists behind over 80 percent of extremism-related U.S.
murders in 2022.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Now I recognize Mr. Lynch.
Mr. Lynch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also have a couple of
unanimous consent requests. The first is from Law and Crime
Magazine: ``Judge rebukes Department of Justice explanation for
ignoring a court order.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Lynch. The subhead is, ``The government again evaded
its obligations. The judge upbraids the Trump Administration's
woefully and insufficient explanation for flouting his court
order.''
The second one is from NBC News, ``Trump administration's
threat to suspend core U.S. legal right sparks outcry and
alarm.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
The Chair now recognizes Ms. Pressley from Massachusetts.
Ms. Pressley. Thank you to our Democratic Governors for
being here today. This hearing is an utter and complete waste
of your time. It is a waste of taxpayer dollars. Republicans
have called you here alleging that you are circumventing
Federal law. You are not, but you know who is the poster child
who is violating Federal law daily? The current occupant of the
Oval Office, Donald J. Trump. To make matters worse, these
hardworking governors had to leave their states to be here in a
moment when their work is incredibly difficult because Donald
J. Trump and his accomplices and co-conspirators, who, by the
way, Donald Trump does not give a damn about your constituents,
and he does not give a damn about you. He does not even respect
the seat you hold in Congress is a co-equal branch of
government. But Donald Trump and his accomplices, many of whom
are in this room, are hellbent, what you want your legacy to be
is tearing food away from our babies and medical care from our
elders.
These Democratic governors have to stand in the gap and
figure out how to stretch budgets and modify programs to keep
their constituents fed and alive. Constituents like this
precious little soul that I wish I did not have to leave to
come be here, Layla, who drew me this rainbow, a 5-year-old who
lives with a rare liver disease, had a successful liver
transplant at Boston Medical Center. Thank God she is thriving
today, but Layla will need immunosuppressant drugs for the rest
of her life that are paid for by Medicaid, and without
Medicaid, well, I shudder to think what might happen to Layla.
But for sure, her family will at least go bankrupt trying to do
everything to keep their baby alive. That is what these
governors, that is the situation that they have been put in
because of your big ass ugly bill and if it comes to pass, and
they are dealing with the fallout of this White House pulling
Federal grants recklessly, grown men throwing temper tantrums.
So, again, let me be plain: the Trump Administration is
breaking the law, not these Democratic governors.
Ms. Perryman, how many legal challenges is the Trump
Administration currently facing?
Ms. Perryman. I believe there are over 300 right now.
Ms. Pressley. And Ms. Perryman, can you explain how
litigation like this has helped to shield and defend vulnerable
communities?
Ms. Perryman. Absolutely. Without our courts upholding the
rule of law and upholding the rights of people, right now,
there could be Federal funds frozen across the country that
would endanger things like Head Start and Meals on Wheels and
community safety programs, including community safety programs
that help prosecutors and help law enforcement in states and
communities across the country. The Administration has
terminated over $800 million in Office of Justice program
grants that we are having to challenge in court, and the list
goes on and on and on.
Ms. Pressley. Thank you, Ms. Perryman. Thank you for your
good work. That is right. In case after case, the media might
not want you to know, but we are winning. Trump tried to end
birthright citizenship: blocked. He tried to shut down asylum:
blocked. He tried to defund cities: blocked. And because we are
winning in court, Republicans are trying to change the rules to
rig the system. Tucked in the big, ugly bill the Republicans
voted for is a provision, section 70302, titled, Restriction on
Enforcement, that would restrict the judiciary from enforcing
court orders and holding government officials accountable. This
is an intentional and deliberate attempt to undermine the
courts so that the Trump Administration can break the law with
impunity. Republicans, Ms. Perryman, pretend to care about law
and order, but this provision is the exact opposite. What
message does this send to people who count on the courts to
protect their rights?
Ms. Perryman. It suggests that the people that voted for
the bill do not want the American people protected and that
they do not want them to access their courts and access the
ability to protect their rights.
Ms. Pressley. Do not want the American people protected.
That part. Allegedly all in the name of law and order and
safety. This is about nothing but power and control and abuse
of power and terror, which makes everyone less safe, the shame
and the sham of it all. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Grothman from
Wisconsin.
Mr. Grothman. Thank you. Glad to see we have three
governors here. I hear a lot about Illinois being from
Wisconsin. I just had some, I think, some builders in my office
yesterday talking about all the Illinois people building houses
and in Southern Wisconsin to get out of Illinois.
In any event, I think we have a very generous country here.
Right now, every year, another eight million new citizens are
sworn in, naturalized in this country. I think we have about
another 500,000 people coming in this country on work visas and
a little under that coming in on student visas. So, we are very
generous about allowing people in this country. I should have
said 850,000 new people sworn in. In any event, really, it is
not impossible to get here illegally. Nevertheless, we have a
lot of people every year overstaying visas or still sneaking
across the border, and the question I am going to ask you guys
and gal is, do you believe we should have immigration laws in
this country? I guess we will go right down the line. Governor
Walz.
Governor Walz. Congressman, the question is should we have
immigration laws?
Mr. Grothman. Yes, that is it.
Governor Walz. Yes, we should.
Mr. Grothman. Governor Pritzker.
Governor Pritzker. They are very important. In fact, we
should have more robust immigration in this country, and it
should be done under a law.
Mr. Grothman. And Ms. Hochul.
Governor Hochul. Yes, of course we should have immigration
law.
Mr. Grothman. Okay.
Governor Hochul. In fact, we do.
Mr. Grothman. The question is, when people come in this
country and break those laws, do you believe they should be
enforced? Let us say people come in this country, Gulf of
Mexico, Pacific Ocean, however they come here. Should they be
spun around and sent back out of the country, or should we just
allow them to stay here?
Governor Walz. It depends, Congressman, if they are coming
on an asylum claim, protected status.
Mr. Grothman. Exact question. Assuming they come on an
asylum claim and that claim has been rejected, should they be
allowed to stay here?
Governor Walz. If the judge denies their asylum claim, no,
they should not. They should not be able to.
Mr. Grothman. Governor Pritzker. If someone is
overstaying--we will say it a different way--overstaying their,
say, work visa, a student visa, should they be allowed to stay
here, or should they be removed?
Governor Pritzker. Given due process, sir.
Mr. Grothman. Should they be removed?
Governor Pritzker. Due process is required, yes.
Mr. Grothman. Okay. Governor Hochul.
Governor Hochul. Yes, agree. Following due process, the
Federal Government has the authority to make those removals. It
has nothing to do with----
Mr. Grothman. I will ask you, should people who are here
illegally get welfare benefits, Governor Walz? I would add food
stamps, low-income housing? Should they get assistance that
would be here?
Governor Walz. Yes. We provide for all of our people in
Minnesota. It is one of the reasons----
Mr. Grothman. Okay. So, your statement is that if somebody
comes here, say, on an asylum claim, whatever, they should be
able to get low-income housing benefits, almost free rent, free
food, free healthcare. That is what you believe?
Governor Walz. I believe in states' rights. In some states,
they do.
Mr. Grothman. Well, I know that. That is what you believe
we should do. Okay. Governor Pritzker.
Governor Pritzker. It is the Federal Government's job to
determine what welfare benefits at the Federal level, and I can
say to you that we have hundreds of thousands of people in the
State of Illinois who are undocumented but have been living,
abiding by the law, holding down a job, paying taxes for years
and years and years.
Mr. Grothman. Okay. Do you believe it is right then that if
they come here, they should get free housing, free medical
care, free food?
Governor Pritzker. It depends on the circumstances. I am
just explaining to you, though, that we have millions of people
across the United States who were here and were here long
before you got elected or I got elected.
Mr. Grothman. No, I know all that. I mean, the question is
you do not have a problem with them getting these benefits.
Governor Pritzker. Again, law-abiding, tax paying. We are
talking about people who are adding to our society.
Mr. Grothman. Okay. I will take it to be, well, not if they
are not working, but either way, you have no problem giving
them those benefits.
Governor Pritzker. We provide benefits to people all
across----
Mr. Grothman. Okay. Ms. Hochul, is that the same thing with
you? Do you believe people who come here who are not citizens,
come here make asylum claim, they should all be getting food,
healthcare, housing?
Governor Hochul. Depending on which law you are referring
to. In certain circumstances, we do provide these services, but
they are not universal.
Mr. Grothman. Okay. Well, do most people, your average
person who is overstaying a student visa in New York, do you
think they should be getting food stamps, housing, medical
care?
Governor Hochul. We provide Medicaid for individuals who
are senior citizens or moms with new babies.
Mr. Grothman. Well, the question is people who are not
citizens who are overstaying a student or work visa, should
they be eligible?
Governor Hochul. People are making their own way here in
the State of New York. In fact, I have 400,000 open jobs. I
wish you could help them find a path----
Mr. Grothman. You are not answering the question.
Governor Hochul. My task----
Mr. Grothman. I take it to mean----
Governor Hochul. Give us more work authorizations.
Mr. Grothman. I just want you to answer the question.
Governor Hochul. Let us put them to work. Let us put them
to work.
Mr. Grothman. You refuse to answer the question. If
somebody is otherwise eligible for low-income housing or food
stamps or medical care in New York, do you believe they should
be entitled to those benefits as Americans?
Governor Hochul. There is not a blanket answer to that. It
depends on which provision of the social services law. In some
cases, it is allowed. In some cases, it is not.
Mr. Grothman. Okay. Thank you.
The Chair recognizes Ms. Simon from Arizona.
Ms. Simon. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I would hope that I am
also able to go over my time.
Chairman Comer. I am sorry, California.
Ms. Simon. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and as my colleague
did, I hope I am allowed to also go over my time by
approximately 45 seconds.
Chairman Comer. Well, I have been very fair. Mr. Frost went
over a minute and a half.
Ms. Simon. Okay. I am just asking. Thank you. I appreciate
that, sir. I just wanted to make----
Chairman Comer. I did not say you could, but you can go
ahead.
Ms. Simon. I just want to make sure that I have a fair
opportunity to also speak as an individual of this body.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you Ranking Member Lynch. I
am so honored to be here today and having this really important
conversation.
We have talked about victim advocacy in this place.
Actually, I was a victim advocate, was at 8133 in San Francisco
for many years, and had to sit with families who buried their
folks, and sitting, literally figuring out how to mend together
obituaries. I have worked with young people who have been
victims of gun violence and, literally, have had to scrub blood
off the streets. There is nothing that anyone can say to a
family--I get it--that is grieving. We have a lot of work to
do, not just here in this country, but around the world to
deter violence. I come from a state, the fourth largest economy
in the world with the best higher public education system in
this country. In fact, at California Berkeley, we lead some of
the research that are keeping folks here and your relatives
alive. Those labs and that research is being attacked by this
Administration, but I digress.
I have a number of questions today, but this hearing has
been so difficult. Not only was I a victim advocate for many
years, working with folks who had witnessed and who had been
victimized by rape, by murder. I also led the Lawyers Committee
for Civil Rights of the San Francisco Bay Area that was founded
by JFK, and our asylum clinic honored, it honored the work of
this country by supporting folks who came here, escaping
tyranny and violence, to just be met by an immigration system
day after day that has spat in their face. I am thankful to
both members of the private bar and our community lawyers who
are doing their American duty by supporting people who are
leaving tyranny.
I have actually one question. I am concerned that we are
deflating the conversation around public safety. It is my
understanding that the current Administration, and this
question goes to you, Ms. Perryman, has deducted or stopped
payments of upwards of a billion dollars in local public safety
funding around the country. With my time remaining, can you
talk to us a little bit about this very hypocritical moment in
time where we are uplifting public safety, and yet we are
taking resources away from communities, police departments,
community safety leaders, and organizations that are taking
guns out of kids' hands. Give us a little bit of the flavor.
Talk about what money has been taken away from communities
under this Administration.
Ms. Perryman. Since January, the Administration has
abruptly terminated a range of funding and grants for community
programs across the country, including grants under the Office
of Justice programs, which was obviously a law that President
Reagan signed. And there has been over $800 million grants and
funding that have been abruptly terminated that we are having
to litigate right now. They have also cutoff funding for
programs that help lawyers and law enforcement become trained
in what they are doing in communities across the country to
keep people safe. And then I know that one of the colleagues
mentioned terrorism, and as part of the Administration's
broader Federal funding freeze that we had to block in the
first weeks of this Administration that remains blocked by a
Federal court, officials from states like Arizona and Oregon
swore out declarations in court talking about the risk to
counterterrorism funding that they were concerned about with
respect to this Administration's Federal funding freeze. Those
are just some examples. Our team is literally in court every
single day.
Ms. Simon. Ms. Perryman, so would you say, is it of your
knowledge that police chiefs, their grants have been frozen?
Ms. Perryman. Yes, many, many people and community safety
programs.
Ms. Simon. And so, taking away literally upwards of a
billion dollars in local public safety funding from around the
country, including violence provision and gun safety, programs,
would you say this Administration is making us more safe or
less safe?
Ms. Perryman. Less safe.
Ms. Simon. Any members, any other governors? I have a few
seconds.
Governor Pritzker. We have programs that we work with the
Federal Government, between cities, law enforcement, and
Federal Government law enforcement that are being torn apart,
drug task forces are gang task forces, gun task forces. This is
making us less safe.
Ms. Simon. Grants for rape kits and rape investigations,
the disassemblement of the Department of Education, including
the Office of Civil Rights that investigated rape and sexual
assault on college campuses decimated. I would agree that our
Administration is making us less safe. Thank you, and I yield
back. Thank you, Chairman, for the extra time.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Perry from
Pennsylvania.
Mr. Perry. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Sad to say I am
disappointed today, but Governors, Ms. Perryman, welcome to the
House of Representatives. Great to have you here and hear about
your thoughts and views on things.
Governor Pritzker, you said, I think, numerous times now
that the President broke the law. You are an attorney, right?
Northwestern, is that where you went to law school?
Governor Pritzker. Congressman, yes, sir.
Mr. Perry. So, just can you cite which law in this regard
he has broken?
Governor Pritzker. Well, there have been congressionally
approved appropriations that this President has cutoff, and we
have had to go to court. That is illegal. We have had to go to
court to have it reinstated.
Mr. Perry. It is illegal?
Governor Pritzker. It is illegal.
Mr. Perry. If you have to go to court, it is illegal?
Governor Pritzker. Yes.
Mr. Perry. And it is still working its way through the
courts, right?
Governor Pritzker. Yes, but things have been ruled on
already.
Mr. Perry. Okay. So, it is not illegal yet. It is your
opinion, but regarding----
Governor Pritzker. When a judge rules on it----
Mr. Perry. Okay.
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. That is the law, okay?
Mr. Perry. It is the law at that moment until the next
judge rules on it, okay? Right, because you understand the
courts.
Governor Pritzker. If another judge----
Mr. Perry. You are the attorney here, I am not, but you are
not saying he broke the law regarding the riots in Los Angeles
right now, or are you saying that?
Governor Pritzker. That has not been ruled upon yet, so.
Mr. Perry. But are you saying he broke the law in that
regard or not?
Governor Pritzker. I believe that he did, but that is not
what I am referring to.
Mr. Perry. Okay. You are not referring to that.
Governor Pritzker. No, I just told you there are
appropriations----
Mr. Perry. Okay. All right. I just want to clear about
that.
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. Congressional
appropriations have been cut off.
Mr. Perry. Because the implication, because of what this
hearing is about, is that you are saying that he broke the law
regarding the mobilization in Los Angeles, and you are not
saying that. I want to make that clear. You are not saying
that.
Governor Pritzker. What he is doing is overstepping his
authority, and we are going to court.
Mr. Perry. Oh, Okay. So, okay.
Governor Pritzker. And we are backing----
Mr. Perry. So, let me ask a couple questions because I want
to go through a little----
Governor Pritzker. Yes.
Mr. Perry [continuing]. Walk down memory lane here in
history for you. In 1794, George Washington mobilized the
military. Are you familiar with the Whiskey Rebellion?
Governor Pritzker. Yes, sir.
Mr. Perry. Okay. So, Washington is beyond his scope? Did he
overstep?
Governor Pritzker. What about inciting riots on January 6--
--
Mr. Perry. I am just asking if he did. We are talking----
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. At the Capitol, right,
this building.
Mr. Perry. Sir. Sir.
Governor Pritzker. Well, you are asking.
Mr. Perry. I am asking--you are saying he is breaking the
law.
Governor Pritzker. Yes, he has broken the law, and he is
breaking the law.
Mr. Perry. Governor Hochul, you are also an attorney. How
about Abraham Lincoln, 1862? Did he do it?
Governor Hochul. The abuse of power is an overreach into
the responsibility of states----
Mr. Perry. Okay. Okay. How about Dwight Eisenhower? Did he
do it when he mobilized?
Governor Hochul. In situations where you are overruling----
Mr. Perry. John Kennedy. John Kennedy.
Governor Hochul. If you seriously do not want an answer for
me, I will not even bother.
Mr. Perry. Twice, John F. Kennedy. How about Lyndon
Johnson, 1965 and 1967 and 1968. You are saying that is against
the law what the President is now doing. You are the attorneys
here, and I am not talking to Governor Walz here because he is
not an attorney. He called himself a knucklehead, so I am
leaving him out of this right now. Are you guys familiar with
Sections 251 through 255, Title 10 of the U.S. Code?
Governor Hochul. The conditions under which a President may
usurp the authority of a governor in activating the National
Guard is under an invasion or an insurrection. I would argue
that neither one of those standards has been met.
Mr. Perry. Governor Hochul, I would refer you to Section
253. I am not going to bore everybody with reading it for you,
but you are wrong, and to accuse the President, quite honestly,
that is the least that you have accused him of. Also, in this
room, he has been accused of being a dictator, maybe not by
you, and if you are willing to say he is not one, we would love
to hear it, but also that the law enforcement agents are Nazis
with Gestapo-like tactics. Governor Walz, you mentioned that in
a commencement speech.
Now, I am going to ask the three of you this. 8 CFR 287.7.
It arises from the Secretary's power under Section 103(a)(3) of
the Immigration and Nationality Act, the INA. So does Sections
236, 241, 287, are those things laws that should be followed
and enforced? Are you okay with those things being laws and
enforced or not?
Governor Hochul. Federal immigration laws are designed to
be enforced by the Federal Government.
Mr. Perry. So, you are okay. You are okay with that, each
one of you.
Governor Hochul. The state cooperates----
Governor Walz. I do not know what you read. I do not have
that in front of me.
Mr. Perry. These are laws, Governor Walz, that are on the
books, the Immigration and Nationalities Act, and those are
sections of them, as is 8 U.S.C. 1226(A), 8 U.S.C. 1357(a)(2),
8 U.S.C. 1357(a)(4), 8 U.S.C. 1357(a)(5).
Mr. Lynch. Would the gentlemen provide copies of that for
that witnesses? If you are going to cite a law, you provide a
copy for the witnesses, typically.
Chairman Comer. Out of order. Mr. Perry.
Mr. Perry. Two of these governors are attorneys, sir. I am
not. They should know this and I should not. Let us just assume
that these are laws. Let us just assume I am not lying to you,
that these are laws on the books right now. Are you okay with
them being enforced?
Governor Walz. You might be asking us a lot. Governors do
not get to deal in hypotheticals, so.
Mr. Perry. Okay. So, putting myself aside.
Governor Walz. As long as you realize that.
Mr. Perry. These are laws. These are current laws on the
books regarding immigration and naturalization.
Governor Pritzker. We abide by all of those laws.
Mr. Perry. You abide by all these laws?
Governor Pritzker. We abide by Federal law.
Mr. Perry. Okay.
Governor Pritzker. We abide by state law.
Mr. Perry. Governor Hochul, do you abide?
Governor Hochul. We follow all state and Federal laws.
Mr. Perry. Governor Walz, do you abide?
Governor Walz. We abide by all laws.
Mr. Perry. Is there any ICE detainer that you will reject,
that you will instruct your law enforcement community or
corrections facilities and enforcement community in your states
to reject, any one for any reason, a legal ICE detainer under
the laws that I just cited?
Governor Walz. Every jurisdiction in Minnesota follows the
law.
Mr. Perry. Every single one?
Chairman Comer. And the gentleman's time has expired, but
feel free to answer the question, Governor Walz.
Mr. Perry. Governor Pritzker.
Governor Walz. We follow all laws, state----
Mr. Perry. But you do not. That is my point, that you do
not.
Governor Walz. In Minnesota, there is----
Mr. Perry. I want you to say you will because we hope you
will, but you actually do not and you have not----
Governor Walz. But the courts----
Mr. Perry [continuing]. Which is why we have this horrific
mess.
Governor Walz. The courts will determine that.
Mr. Perry. I yield.
Mr. Lynch. Mr. Chairman, can we allow the witness to
answer? That would be great. Thanks.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Ms. Ansari from
Arizona.
Ms. Ansari. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you so much,
Governors, Governors for being here. I am the proud daughter of
immigrants who fled an authoritarian regime, and it is
especially devastating as a first-generation American to watch
Donald Trump's reckless, cruel, and radical policies transform
this country into an authoritarian regime.
Mr. Perry just mocked us for referring to Donald Trump as a
dictator, so let us run through the list. Donald Trump has,
since he was inaugurated, pardoned violent January 6
insurrectionists: dictator; defied Supreme Court orders and
attacked the judiciary: dictator; unilaterally abolished
congressionally chartered Federal agencies: dictator; attacked
the free press: sounds like a dictator; kidnapped people off of
the streets and deported them to foreign prisons without due
process: sounds like a dictator; defunded higher education:
dictator; threatened law firms and the legal profession:
dictator. This weekend he is spending tens of millions of
dollars to host a massive military parade for his birthday.
Like, is this North Korea?
On top of all of that, our twice-impeached President, with
a 34-count convicted felony President who is not a king, has
deployed the active-duty military in American cities, and he
has spent $134 million to do so. He has their guns trained on
American citizens without the consent of local authorities or
the state's governor to purposefully generate chaos and provoke
a reaction. Meanwhile, we have Republicans on this side of the
aisle asking governors of states about bathrooms. Like, this is
the most dystopian, horrific episode of ``Black Mirror'' that I
have ever seen.
To our witnesses, the governors, thank you so much for
being here today. I agree with my colleagues who say this is a
waste of your time. You have been instrumental in fighting back
against cruel and illegal Trump Administration actions. I
represent an extremely diverse district, one of the most
diverse in the country where more than 64 languages are spoken.
I can tell you that the actions of this Administration toward
immigrants and immigrant communities is a blatant abuse of
power, but, more importantly, these steps are harming our
economy and our national security, so I want to ask you a
little bit about that.
Governor Walz, can you share the ways in which immigrants
contribute economically to your state?
Governor Walz. Well, thank you, Congresswoman. Well, there
is no aspect in Minnesota life that they are not involved,
whether it is economically in the impact that they make,
whether it is involved in the arts and the culture that
Minnesota is very proud of, whether they are in higher
professions--medical students, engineers--and Minnesota is
proud to have an immigrant heritage. We set on the land of the
Dakota and the Anishinaabe, and all the rest of us came through
via immigration, and so the impact is widespread. It is
intertwined. It may have been the Norwegians and the Swedes,
then the Hmongs and the Somalis, but it is the same story:
coming to America for a chance to start and then contribute to
a better state.
Ms. Ansari. Thank you so much, Governor Walz, and, in fact,
according to the American Community Survey, immigrants paid
$382 billion in Federal taxes and $196.3 billion in state and
local taxes in 2022. Undocumented immigrants using individual
tax identification numbers paid $59.4 billion in Federal and
$13.6 billion in state and local taxes in 2022. Governor
Pritzker, you recently called immigrants the anchors of their
communities. How does Donald Trump's mass deportation project
harm the security of your state and instill fear throughout
Illinois communities?
Governor Pritzker. Thank you very much, Congresswoman. Let
me be clear: the Homan raids that occurred in the first week of
the Trump Administration drove people into hiding. It ruined
the entire area of commerce for our Mexican-American community
where people who were documented, people who are citizens,
actually, had to go into hiding because they know people that
are undocumented. They did not want to get picked up and having
to talk about somebody that they know that is undocumented. You
could see it was a ghost town. It was a ghost town.
We have had people who are working, I am talking about for
decades, who have raised families, who are paying taxes in my
state, who have had to flee, and these are good people. These
are our neighbors. These are people that are bringing culture
and art to our communities, people that should be given an
opportunity if we had good immigration laws to apply, to stay
legally in this country, and maybe to become U.S. citizens.
Indeed, many of them have proven themselves to be maybe more
worthy than some people who are already U.S. citizens. Let us
give them an opportunity.
So, I can tell you that it is had a profoundly negative
impact on my state that Donald Trump has been attacking people
who are not the problem. If you are talking about terrorists,
and one of the Congressmen mentioned that, let us go after
terrorists. Let us know who they are. We will go arrest a
terrorist any day of the week, every day of the week.
Ms. Ansari. Governor Hochul, if you could also answer.
Governor Hochul. I am very proud to represent the state
that has the Statue of Liberty in our harbor, millions of
migrants and immigrants who have passed through, including my
own grandparents. My grandfather was a migrant farm worker.
They are an important part of our identity, our economy. The
diversity of New York is what sets us apart and makes us so
fascinating and so desirable. For businesses large and small,
they are so critical to our identity and our existence, and I
am really hurt. It hurts me as the leader of a state where
people are living in fear in the shadows. People cannot go to
school. They cannot worship. They cannot go get healthcare.
They cannot go to their senior center. What is happening has
been traumatic. It is unnecessary.
We will help every day of the week to get rid of people who
commit crimes that never should have come here or commit crimes
here. That is my number one job, but what is happening is un-
American.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady's time has expired. The
Chair recognizes Mr. Timmons from South Carolina.
Mr. Timmons. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Governor Hochul, the
difference is, is that the millions of Americans that came
through Ellis Island did so legally. I will yield to my friend
from Georgia, Ms. Green.
Ms. Greene. Thank you. Governor Hochul, are you a Democrat?
Yes or no.
Governor Hochul. I am a proud registered Democrat, yes.
Ms. Greene. Did you support Joe Biden for President? Yes or
no.
Governor Hochul. Yes, I did.
Ms. Greene. Did you support the Biden Administration's
policies for the past four years?
Governor Hochul. I raised my concerns in many meetings with
the administration----
Ms. Greene. That is a yes or no question.
Governor Hochul. [continuing]. About how the border was
being enforced, and so I raised concerns----
Ms. Greene. I will reclaim my time. You said you are a
proud Democrat. You supported Joe Biden for President. Clearly,
you supported the Biden Administration's policies.
Governor Hochul. I supported many of them, yes.
Ms. Greene. Governor Hochul, did you swear an oath to
faithfully uphold New York's Constitution and laws?
Governor Hochul. I certainly did.
Ms. Greene. In 2017, New York became a sanctuary state when
Governor Cuomo signed Executive Order 170. It directs that ``No
state officers or employees, including law enforcement
officers, shall disclose information to Federal immigration
authorities for the purpose of Federal civil immigration
enforcement unless required by the law.'' Do you support this
law as Governor of New York?
Governor Hochul. Yes. This pertains to civil enforcement.
Ms. Greene. So, you do enforce sanctuary policies of New
York.
Governor Hochul. I support helping law enforcement and ICE
when it comes to----
Ms. Greene. Thank you. I reclaim my time. You support
sanctuary policies that have led to the horrific murder of
people, Americans. Fox News got it wrong. It should say
``Monster'' arrested in broad daylight, rape of a 13-year-old
in a New York park. This girl was raped at knife point in the
park near New York Mets Stadium. That is your state, Governor
Hochul. New York Post also got it wrong and called him a
``Migrant''--that is a monster--``busted in brutal beating of
NYPD cops in Times Square are members of bloodthirsty `Tren de
Aragua' gangs.'' That is your state where you support your
sanctuary state laws. Also, Governor Hochul, do you recognize
this image----
Governor Hochul. Yes.
Ms. Greene [continuing]. Where a homeless woman was burned
alive by an illegal alien monster where you uphold the laws to
protect these monsters in your state, and then you force the
New York citizens that pay taxes to pay for these people. This
is the result of your sick and disgusting, treasonous laws that
you uphold as governor.
Governor Hochul. New York is not a sanctuary state for
criminals.
Ms. Greene. I did not recognize you, Ms. Hochul. This was
my time. Do you know the name Laken Riley? Do you know the name
Laken Riley?
Governor Hochul. Yes, I do. Yes, I do.
Ms. Greene. Oh, you do. Jose Ibarra murdered 22-year-old
Laken Riley. He is an illegal alien monster from Venezuela,
convicted of ten charges. He was first arrested by the Biden
Administration that you stated that you support. Joe Biden for
President, right? Proud Democrat, Governor Hochul. First
arrested at the border and released by the Democrats that you
support, then guess what? He made it to New York because the
Biden Administration flew illegals all over the country, and
your state was one that accepted him. He lived at the Crown
Plaza Hotel in Queens, an upscale hotel that was turned into an
illegal alien shelter at the taxpayers' expense. Two million
dollars a month went to this hotel. The second time he was
arrested was in the State of New York for endangering a child,
but he was released quickly before ICE could even issue a
detainer because you support those laws, Governor Hochul.
Then he flew--get this, this is shocking--he flew from the
State of New York to my home state in Georgia, and you all paid
for it because, why? Because it was reticketing, and that was
the little gift that you were giving my state by sending
monsters there. Cost the State of New York $5 to $10 million a
day to feed and house. Are you smiling at me about this?
Governor Hochul. No, I am not.
Ms. Greene. You look like you got quite a smile on your
face.
Governor Hochul. No.
Ms. Greene. Because I can tell----
Mr. Lynch. The gentlelady will not----
Ms. Greene. This is my time. Reclaiming my time.
Chairman Comer. Yes, order.
Mr. Lynch. Do not attack the witness.
Governor Hochul. I am thinking about----
Mr. Lynch. Do not attack the witness.
Ms. Greene. Don't you dare smile about the murder of Laken
Riley.
Governor Hochul. I am thinking about her parents. Do not
question how I look.
Ms. Greene. The time Jose Ibarra----
Governor Hochul. My heart is breaking for her parents.
Ms. Garcia. My time, Governor Hochul. The third time he was
arrested was in the sanctuary city of Athens, another Democrat
policy, and then he went on and attempted to rape Laken Riley
and murdered her. He murdered her. Let me explain something to
you. Let me explain something to you. This little girl right
here, she would be alive today if you were not such a
treasonous governor supporting sanctuary laws in the State of
New York. This little girl would be alive today, and her mother
very much would like for her to be alive. This is outrageous
for anybody--anybody--in this country to support for
noncitizens to be able to come in our country, be able to
travel wherever they want, and then make taxpayers pay to house
them, feed them, and then give them a plane ticket after they
had been arrested in their state. That is what you did. You are
responsible for the murder of this little girl, Laken Riley.
And the Department of Justice should prosecute you for her
murder.
Mr. Lynch. Objection. Objection.
Ms. Greene. I do not care how much you object.
Mr. Lynch. Objection.
Ms. Greene. And if you support it, too, you are responsible
for her murder. I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady----
Mr. Lynch. Mr. Chairman, a point of order. Point of order.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady's time has expired.
Mr. Lynch. I want a point of order.
Chairman Comer. State your point.
Mr. Lynch. Mr. Chairman, these witnesses have been here for
over four hours. They all voluntarily have been engaging with
our Members with respect. They have all treated our Members
with respect. Our rules of decorum.
Ms. Greene. Laken Riley is dead forever. Forever.
Mr. Lynch. Our rules of decorum.
Chairman Comer. All right.
Ms. Greene. Forever. They can sit there all day.
Mr. Lynch. Reclaiming my time.
Chairman Comer. Hold on. Hold on.
Mr. Lynch. Reclaiming my time.
Chairman Comer. No, wait, wait. State your point.
Mr. Lynch. I am trying to.
Chairman Comer. No, no.
Mr. Lynch. Let me do without interruption. Our rules----
Chairman Comer. No, no, it is a point of inquiry, not a
debate.
Mr. Lynch. Our rules----
Chairman Comer. You have had your time.
Mr. Lynch. If you would let me speak. Our rules of decorum
dictate that our witnesses should be treated with respect, and
I ask you to enforce decorum and remind Committee Members to
treat our witnesses with respect.
Chairman Comer. Our Members are treating the witnesses with
respect. This is not a courtroom. We engage with the witnesses,
and I think everybody is acting within the realm. We have not
cried and screamed when you all are criticizing the current
President even though that is in the rules not to criticize----
Mr. Lynch. Accusing them of treason and breaking the law
and how they look? How they look?
Governor Hochul. Mr. Chairman?
Chairman Comer. If you win the chairmanship, if you all
flip the House, you win the chairmanship, then you can do what
Ms. Crockett says she is going to do and try to impeach Trump
again or whatever you all are planning.
Governor Hochul. Mr. Chairman, is there any chance you
would yield me 30 seconds to just respond that we are
heartbroken what happened to her family. Laken Riley should be
alive today, and I am so sorry for what happened to her, I
truly am, what happened, but this has nothing to do with our
civil enforcement of the laws. We are always cooperating with
criminal investigations. Always have, always will, so
misstating our policies is not serving the purpose of making
sure we have meaningful policies that will actually move the
dime. Why are not we working together to come up with
meaningful immigration reform, secure our borders, do vetting
at the border? We are simply asking----
Chairman Comer. Wait a minute. Okay, Governor, with all due
respect, the policy of the previous Administration was an open
border. It was an open border. You all supported that. Now you
are saying we need----
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Point of order. Whose time is it?
Chairman Comer. Ms. Ocasio-Cortez, I will recognize you
because I, actually, I like you.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you.
[Laughter.]
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. I
appreciate that.
Chairman Comer. The border was opened, and you all said
nothing, all right? You said we had to pass legislation. We did
not have to pass legislation. Donald Trump secured the border
on the first day. Now, there is no question you all have been
obstructing and criticizing and failing to work with this
Administration in trying to apprehend the criminal illegals.
That is what this hearing is about. It is not about theater. It
is about trying to get a consensus on working with this
Administration to deport the criminal illegals.
Governor Hochul. We do it every day of the week, Mr.
Chairman.
Chairman Comer. Not to defend all the people who are over
here illegally. To deport the criminal illegals.
Governor Hochul. We do it every day of the week.
Chairman Comer. So, everyone is out of order. I am going to
let Ms. Ocasio-Cortez state her point, and then we are going to
go to Ro Khanna.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Oh, we can continue. I was just curious
whose time it was, but we can proceed. Thank you.
Chairman Comer. All right.
Ms. Ansari. Mr. Chairman, I have a unanimous consent
request.
Chairman Comer. Okay.
Ms. Ansari. I would like to seek unanimous consent to enter
into the record this tweet, just happened: ``Stunning. Senator
Alex Padilla from California was just forcibly removed from the
news conference being held by DHS.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered. You just
have to state that the title. Go ahead.
Ms. Ansari. This is the title.
Chairman Comer. Mr. Lynch. The Chair recognizes Mr. Lynch.
Mr. Lynch. All right. Mr. Chairman, I have a unanimous
consent request. This is from MSN, ``Unquestionably in
violation: Judge says U.S. Government didn't follow court order
on deportations.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Lynch. The next one is from Rolling Stone. ``Trump has
now deported multiple U.S. citizens, children with cancer.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Lynch. This is New York Times, ``LA deployments of the
military to cost $134 million''----
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Lynch [continuing]. ``In the last few days.''
And lastly, ``Secretary Hegseth won't commit to obeying the
court's order on Marines in Los Angeles.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
The Chair recognizes Mr. Khanna from California.
Mr. Khanna. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Governor Pritzker, I
have admired your moral clarity during these times. You had a
speech about a month and a half ago where you said you would
not bend the knee to any President of any party. I highly
recommend the American people listen to that speech in its
entirety. Professor Chenoweth has said at Harvard that if 3.5
percent of a population engage in peaceful protests, that is
the single best way to bring change and stand up for
constitutional values. As you know, there is the No Kings
protests that are happening this weekend. I would like you to
weigh in and share your thoughts about what that could mean for
the country.
Governor Pritzker. Thank you, Congressman, and let me say
that peaceful protest has been the avenue for so much positive
social change in this country. I think about the Civil Rights
Movement as the best example of that, and it continues to be:
civil rights for LGBTQ people, civil rights for immigrants, et
cetera. I encourage people to peacefully protest, and I have
said that many times. I think getting out your microphones and
your megaphones, speaking up, speaking out, and very
importantly for people who can vote, go to the ballot box and
vote. Too many people do not do that, and too many people do
not stand up and speak out because they are a little bit
afraid. And in this environment, I have to say, President Trump
has created a situation where people are afraid. They are
afraid, and they are afraid they are going to get targeted
because that is what is happening under this Administration.
People are getting individually targeted when they stand up and
speak out.
Mr. Khanna. Thank you. Governor Walz, I thought you
conducted yourself with such dignity as our vice Presidential
candidate. You and Gwen and many of your former colleagues are
really proud of how you ran, and one of the things, even people
who voted for President Trump, said about you is, he is so
decent. He is kind. He deals with people with respect. What is
happening in this country that we have started to demonize
immigrants? When I grew up in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, it
was 99 percent white. I grew up as an Indian American of Hindu
faith. I never felt demonized, felt different, made to feel
like I did not belong. Something is going on where we have
created a permission structure for that. How do we model the
kind of decency that you have exhibited so that become a
cohesive community like this country has always been?
Governor Walz. Well, Congressman, thank you for the kind
words. I think the people of this country expect us to do that.
Look, I think we could all agree these horrific situations that
happened that have been highlighted in here, we all hate that,
but we also lift up the great success stories. And I will just
tell you, Congressman, on Tuesday night at 2 a.m., Minnesota
has the most closely divided legislature in the country, 101 to
a 100, and we passed bipartisan legislation that kept us with a
balanced budget, a Triple A bond rating. We invested in our
schools, we invested in our roads, and we did it with civility.
We did it with an eye to the future, and we did it, Republicans
and Democrats, with the idea that we are a Nation of
immigrants, and people simply want to make sure that if the
laws are being asked to be followed, people are given due
process.
So, I have to tell you, we have a model. It is our
Constitution. We have a model on how to do this, and we have
done it before, and I would just encourage all of us to be part
of the solution rather than just continue to demonize each
other.
Mr. Khanna. Thank you, Governor. Governor Hochul, I
appreciate your speaking out about the Marines being sent into
my state. I was horrified. There is just footage today of
Senator Padilla being shoved out. I do not know if people have
seen it, but he went to ask Secretary Noem a question, and the
police literally grabbed the senator and shoved him out of the
room. I want to get back to the Marines, though. The fact is
that we have a principle called federalism in this country. No
one in Los Angeles asked for the Marines. No one in California
ask for the Marines. Do people's voices not matter or what we
want locally in state way? Tell me how you would feel if
Marines were sent into your state or your senators were taken
by the fists and pushed out of rooms? What is going on in this
country?
Governor Hochul. Thank you for the question. It is
disturbing at so many levels. I served as a member of the Armed
Services Committee when I served in this body years ago, and to
think that the Marines are being deployed against fellow
citizens, fellow residents, is unprecedented. Now, we have
different levels of law enforcement to manage crowds. That is
all this is, is a crowd. When it gets out of control, when it
is violent, there must be consequences, and that is what the
police are trained to do, whether they are Los Angeles Police
Department (LAPD) or what we have in New York is one of the
highest trained organization of top law enforcement people, put
their lives on the line every day who know how to deal with
crowds and protests and if they devolve into riots. But to go
to the extreme of not just the National Guard, which usurps the
governor's authority--the governors are the commanders-in-chief
of the National Guards--but to go all the way to the U.S.
military as an indication that a mayor and a governor cannot
handle what is happening in their own streets is overkill at a
level that is just unconscionable, and I hope we do not see
this in other cities. We need to calm the situation down, get
rid of the criminals, we will work together every day, and
leave law-abiding individuals alone.
Mr. Khanna. Thank you.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Burchett from
Tennessee.
Mr. Burchett. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Governor Walz, you
said that as long as you are governor, immigrants will be
welcome in Minnesota. Do you find a difference between an
immigrant and an illegal immigrant?
Governor Walz. A difference, their status?
Mr. Burchett. Is there a difference, legal status or
otherwise?
Governor Walz. Well, the legal status is different, but in
Minnesota, we have a long tradition of welcoming.
Mr. Burchett. Okay. ICE in St. Paul arrested a criminal
illegal alien who been convicted of possession of child
pornography on a work computer. Do you still stand by your
statement that ICE agents are the modern-day Gestapo?
Governor Walz. ICE agents need to do a job, but they need
to do it within the realm of due process and the law. Wearing
masks, no notice of who they are, no notice of the vans, and
picking people up off the streets without that due process, I
stand that that is wrong and a road toward authoritarianism. I
certainly stand by that.
Mr. Burchett. I have one rule. I have a couple rules in my
office, but one of them has never compare anything dealing with
the Holocaust except for the Holocaust. I think that it de-
sensitizes people about what really went on in Nazi Germany by
making any comparisons there. Does Minnesota receive Federal
tax dollars for any programs that assist illegal immigrants?
Governor Walz. Minnesota's Federal tax dollars are
appropriated by you, in Congress, and then we use state dollars
under our laws.
Mr. Burchett. During the Biden Administration, nearly $1.5
billion was sent to sanctuary states to pay for their illegal
immigration policies, housing, and healthcare. Governor Hochul,
are crimes committed by illegal aliens preventable, in your
opinion?
Governor Hochul. Our law enforcement is highly trained in
how to identify prospective perpetrators, but certainly we try
to prevent crimes, and we also work to resolve them and make
sure that, if there is a crime committed, that people----
Mr. Burchett. Okay.
Governor Hochul. [continuing]. Find their time in court and
are incarcerated.
Mr. Burchett. Yes, ma'am.
Governor Hochul. That is how it has always worked.
Mr. Burchett. By definition, illegal aliens are unlawfully
present in the United States. They should not be in here in the
first place to commit crimes. Don't you agree with that?
Governor Hochul. It depends on the circumstances of coming
over. I mean, there are civil violations, there is also
criminal, so it is the Federal Government's determination on
the status of an individual if they are prosecuted.
Mr. Burchett. But I mean, if they are not here, the crime
is not going to be committed.
Governor Hochul. I think if there was not----
Mr. Burchett. If they are not going to be here, ma'am, the
crime is not going to be committed. A young man----
Governor Hochul. If there was no one in our country, no
crimes would be committed. I suppose you could say the same
thing.
Mr. Burchett. A young man in my district, whose family is
very close to me, lost their son to an illegal alien, and I can
guarantee you, if we would followed the laws of the land and
there would been some enforcement, that that young man would be
here today. Well, let me ask you this. Why did your state say
that you are welcome with open arms in reference to illegal
aliens? That was a direct quote attributed to you, ma'am.
Governor Hochul. It is a 400-year history we have in the
State of New York of welcoming all. I do not know why we would
change that now.
Mr. Burchett. Okay. Governor Pritzker, you mentioned in
your opening statement that criminals have no place in our
country, but Cook County released numerous criminal migrants
last year, including one that was charged with raping a minor.
Why would you release a criminal rapist back into your
community?
Governor Pritzker. Thank you, Congressman. First of all, we
do not need to release somebody if ICE or another law
enforcement authority shows up with a judicial warrant, and
that is just the fact, and if somebody gets released, it is
usually because they have had due process and determined not to
be eligible to be held. That is----
Mr. Burchett. Okay, but do you know what happened after
that individual is released?
Governor Pritzker. I do not, but again, a judicial warrant,
if appropriate----
Mr. Burchett. I will tell you, 17 days later he was charged
with a homicide. And then Cook County also released a migrant
charged with domestic violence in August 2024. Do you what this
individual was charged with one month later?
Governor Pritzker. No sir, I am not sure what case----
Mr. Burchett. Aggravated criminal sexual assault and abuse
of minor. As Governor, have you done anything to ensure local
and county governments are not releasing illegal immigrants
charged with sexual or violent crimes?
Governor Pritzker. As a matter of fact, first of all, we
chase down criminals every single day. We put them in jail, we
try them, put them through due process. They get convicted,
they get put into our correction system. We do that every
single day. You are implying that we are not. We are. In fact,
our law enforcement are some of the best in the country. They
do their job.
Mr. Burchett. Well, if these laws were enforced, then I
would assume these people would not be back out on the streets
so freely. How many programs does Illinois have that explicitly
supports illegal immigrants?
Governor Pritzker. Sir, we have created programs to deal
with, not illegal--I mean, we have one program that is related
to----
Mr. Burchett. Okay.
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. Undocumented people who
are----
Mr. Burchett. I am out of time, but----
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. That are the most
vulnerable.
Mr. Burchett. The answer is at least four: health benefits
for immigrants, HBIS; health benefits for immigrant adults,
HBIA; retention of Illinois students and Equity--RISE is the
acronym for that; and the Illinois Dream Fund. And I am sorry,
I am out of time. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Min.
Ms. Ansari. Mr. Chairman, I would like to finish the title
of the article that I was trying to read into unanimous
consent.
Chairman Comer. Okay.
Ms. Ansari. ``Stunning: Senator Alex Padilla, California,
was just forcefully removed from the news conference being held
by DHS Christie Noem in Westwood. Senator attempted to
interrupt''----
Chairman Comer. That is the title?
Ms. Ansari. ``He was handcuffed in the hallway.'' Yes.
Thank you.
Chairman Comer. All right.
Mr. Burchett. Mr. Chairman, for the record, he rushed the
podium. He was being disruptive, and that is not conducive to a
member to an elected body. Thank you.
Ms. Ansari. A senator was forcefully shoved to the ground
and arrested.
Chairman Comer. All right. Order. The Chair recognizes Mr.
Min from California.
Mr. Min. I just want to followup my Republican colleague's
comments, since he is talking so much about sexual assault, and
note that our current President was found civilly liable for
sexual assault. And for the record, I just want to note that
Elon Musk, who was once part of this Administration, not so
long ago accused the President of being part of the Epstein
files, so all of great interest and something perhaps we should
look into some oversight on.
Governors, I want to ask you a few questions. Please raise
your hand if your state has any laws or policies that prevent
ICE from enforcing Federal immigration laws.
[No response.]
Mr. Min. Note for the record that no one has their hand up.
Governors, please raise your hand if you are aware of any
laws or policies that prevent Federal authorities from
enforcing immigration laws in any city or state in the United
States.
[No response.]
Mr. Min. Again, no hands are up, and that is because there
is no such thing as sanctuary from Federal laws anywhere in
this country. What is really at stake here is whether state
resources, including National Guard troops, should be used for
Donald Trump's immigration policies, or whether National
Guardsmen should be used primarily for responding to state
emergencies, supporting state law enforcement priorities, or
whether they should be conscripted to support ICE. This is
really a question about state's rights, and it is being starkly
illustrated right now with what is happening in Los Angeles,
just up the way from my district in Orange County, where the
Trump Administration has claimed authority to deploy 4,000
troops from the California National Guard.
I also want to note that the existence of the National
Guard is rooted in the Second Amendment to the Constitution:
``A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a
free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall
not be infringed.'' The first part of that amendment, the part
my Republican colleagues always forget to quote whenever they
cite the Second Amendment, is the key part of it: ``A well-
regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free
State,'' with ``State'' being capitalized so that we know we
are talking about the states in the United States of America.
The Second Amendment guarantees the state the right to keep and
maintain a well-regulated militia, which is the basis for the
National Guard.
So, Governors, I want to just try to set the record
straight because I think it is not clear that everyone fully
understands what a National Guard unit is, when and how they
can and should be called up, and what activities they are
restricted from engaging in. I have limited time, so I am just
going to ask you to keep your answers brief so we can really
unwrap how deeply concerning President Trump's actions are.
Governor Walz, in a sentence or two, what does the
Minnesota National Guard do, and how does it serve the people
in the State of Minnesota?
Governor Walz. It has a dual role. I know this personally
from 24 years. You can be deployed federally under Title 10 X
with the President's authority or Title 32. In Minnesota, we
have used them, everything from flood and tornadoes. We used
them to help during the COVID pandemic, and they serve overseas
when called upon.
Mr. Min. But typically, they report to the state governor
per Title 32 of the U.S. Code, correct?
Governor Walz. That is correct.
Mr. Min. And in times of crisis, a governor can activate
the state's National Guard units to respond and assist. As you
noted under Title 10, the President sometimes that authority to
deploy them. Governor Pritzker, in a few words, under what
circumstances can or should the President Federalize a state's
National Guard?
Governor Pritzker. Well, the President of the United
States, and I have been in office 6-and-a-half years, has, in
fact, deployed under Title 10 our National Guard to foreign
lands. We have a terrific encampment of Illinois National Guard
in Poland. We have the largest Polish-American population in
the country, and very proudly, our national guards serve all
over the world, in fact, as part of our military to protect our
Nation.
Mr. Min. And so, Title 10's Section 12406 allows the
President to deploy National Guard troops when the United
States is being invaded, when there is a rebellion, or when the
President is unable with regular forces to execute the laws of
the United States. Do you believe that the protests in Los
Angeles or the ICE raids qualify for any of these particular
provisions?
Governor Pritzker. I do not.
Mr. Min. Okay. Thank you. And you are aware that Governor
Newsom did not make any request to President Trump to
Federalize the California National Guard?
Governor Pritzker. He did not. In fact, he rejected it.
Mr. Min. And so, this is illegal. It does not comply with
the bases for deployment. It was done against the express
wishes of Governor Newsom. Now, I want to highlight a key point
that my Republican colleagues across the aisle should keep in
mind regarding the Federalization process of National Guard
units. Even under Title 10, these troops may not be used for
law enforcement purposes, and what we are seeing right now is a
total violation of that. We are seeing them used to aid ICE
raids. And I just want to note that ICE is acting largely as a
civil organization at this point in time. Governor Hochul,
correct or incorrect: being undocumented in the United States
is a civil violation, not a criminal offense. Yes or no,
please.
Governor Hochul. I believe most cases are civil. In some
cases, the Federal Government can determine that it is a
criminal.
Mr. Min. Criminal violation, right, and correct or
incorrect: deploying U.S. Marines to support ICE raids
constitutes a law enforcement purpose and non-national security
purpose?
Governor Hochul. It appears to have crossed the line given
that we have highly trained local law enforcement who are more
than capable of handling those situations.
Mr. Min. Thank you, and I will just close with this. There
is no rebellion. There is no invasion. Law enforcement has not
collapsed. There is no national emergency. What is happening
right now is not just unprecedented, it is illegal, and it is
very alarming to those of us who care about democracy and the
rule of that law. And with that, I yield back, but with
unanimous consent, I would ask to introduce this article into
the record, ``Marines to Join National Guard Troops Protecting
ICE Agents in Los Angeles.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Min. Thank you.
Mr. Lynch. Unanimous consent.
Chairman Comer. Go ahead.
Mr. Lynch. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to enter
into the record this is a picture of Senator Padilla being
knuckled and looks like he is being arrested and restrained by
three police officers. I cannot understand.
Chairman Comer. Okay. We will enter the picture in.
Without objection, so ordered.
The Chair recognizes Ms. Mace from South Carolina.
Ms. Mace. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome to the
unofficial 2028 Democrat Presidential primary right here on
stage at the Oversight Committee. Governor Newsom must be
seething. The three of you beat him to the stage, but he is a
little busy right now defending illegals and defending Antifa
torching what is left of Los Angeles. Governor Walz knows the
playbook. In 2020, he rolled out the red carpet for anarchists
while Minnesotans watched their neighborhoods burn. You have
turned your states into sanctuaries for illegals. You have done
more to shield MS-13 than to protect the single mom working two
jobs in Chicago, Queens, or Minneapolis, and you have worked
harder against ICE than with them.
So, Governor Walz, and boy, does that feel nice to say the
word, ``governor,'' my first question is for you. Did you know
the Nazis killed six million Jews during the Holocaust? It is a
yes or no question. Did you know the Nazis killed six million
Jews during the Holocaust?
Governor Walz. I am pushing my button down to answer.
Ms. Mace. Okay.
Governor Walz. Yes, I believe that is historic.
Ms. Mace. Okay. Would you agree the Holocaust is the most
horrific atrocity in human history? Yes or no.
Governor Walz. I think the Holocaust ranks amongst them,
yes.
Ms. Mace. Did you know the Nazi Gestapo imprisoned,
tortured, and murdered Jews by the hundreds of thousands and
committed genocide against the Jews? Did you know that?
Governor Walz. I do know they operated a secret----
Ms. Mace. Did you know ICE has done none of that? Yes or
no.
Governor Walz. Operated as a secret police force?
Ms. Mace. No, that is not the question. Did you know that
ICE has not committed genocide against anyone?
Governor Walz. Yes, I do know that.
Ms. Mace. Okay. Do you apologize for your disgusting
comparison of ICE to the Gestapo who killed hundreds of
thousands of Jews during the Holocaust?
Governor Walz. As a history teacher----
Ms. Mace. Yes or no is the question.
Governor Walz. A historical comparison----
Ms. Mace. You are a governor. You understand the question.
It is yes or no. Will you apologize for what you said about ICE
comparing them Gestapo.
Governor Walz. I would ask ICE, too, to identify who they
are when they operate. Do not use unmarked vehicles.
Ms. Mace. Okay. Mr. Chairman, this governor, or honorable,
cannot answer the question. Do you believe the Nuremberg trials
were a good exercise in holding the Nazis accountable? Yes or
no.
Governor Walz. I think due process is always----
Ms. Mace. Okay. So, are you calling for ICE agents to be
brought to a tribunal under the threat of death by comparing
them to the Gestapo?
Governor Walz. Everyone is afforded due process.
Ms. Mace. What don't you understand about ``yes'' or
``no?'' Like, what cannot you comprehend about yes or no
questions?
Governor Walz. I think being a governor is a different job.
Ms. Mace. Do you still want to abolish ICE? Do you still
want to abolish ICE? Yes or no.
Governor Walz. I never said I wanted to abolish ICE.
Ms. Mace. Didn't you march in a rally calling for ICE's
abolishment?
Governor Walz. Not that I can recall, Congresswoman.
Ms. Mace. Well, according to widespread media reports you
did.
Governor Walz. And the media is always correct.
Ms. Mace. How do you rate Kamala Harris' job as border
czar? I want a number between one and ten. How was she as
border czar?
Governor Walz. I would not have a way to measure that. I
was not in the Administration.
Ms. Mace. Weren't you her running mate for Vice President?
Governor Walz. In the campaign. I was not part of the
Administration.
Ms. Mace. And you cannot rate her role as border czar? On a
scale of one to ten, was she great at ten or was she a one,
terrible?
Governor Walz. I think her proposal that she put forward to
make sure we had the bipartisan immigration----
Ms. Mace. It was not bipartisan. Did you ever personally
speak with Kamala about Joe Biden's cognitive collapse?
Governor Walz. Not that I can recall, Congresswoman.
Mr. Miller. Not as her running mate for Vice President? You
never once talked to her about the President and why she was
nominated instead of him?
Governor Walz. No, not that I can recall.
Ms. Mace. What kind of operation were you guys running over
there?
Governor Walz. I was more concerned with Donald Trump's
cognitive decline.
Ms. Mace. Thank God he is President and J.D. Vance is Vice
President and not you. Have you ever served in a combat zone,
Governor?
Governor Walz. I have not, Congresswoman.
Ms. Mace. Okay. Are you still friends with school shooters?
Governor Walz. I have never been a friend with a school
shooter.
Ms. Mace. Didn't you say you were friends with school
shooters on the debate stage?
Governor Walz. I misspoke, Congresswoman. I think that is
very evident----
Ms. Mace. Is bullying----
Governor Walz. [continuing]. As a teacher and a parent.
Ms. Mace. My mom was a teacher. I am a high school dropout.
We can talk about that later. Is bullying okay?
Governor Walz. Is bullying okay?
Ms. Mace. Mm-hmm.
Governor Walz. As a teacher?
Ms. Mace. Is bullying okay? Yes or no. Is it okay to bully
somebody? Yes or no.
Governor Walz. I think there is a time to push back at a
bully, so, yes, I do think there is a time.
Ms. Mace. So, you think it is okay to bully others.
Governor Walz. I think it is okay to bully the bully at
times.
Ms. Mace. Well, you are showing that the Democrat Party is
a party of violence. Were you at Tiananmen Square?
Governor Walz. Have I been to Tiananmen Square? I have.
Ms. Mace. Were you at Tiananmen Square?
Governor Walz. I have been at Tiananmen Square.
Ms. Mace. When were you there?
Governor Walz. As I recall, January 1990.
Ms. Mace. Okay. What is a woman? What is a woman is the
question.
Governor Walz. I am not sure I understand the question
here.
Ms. Mace. Okay.
Governor Walz. What do want me to say? This is----
Ms. Mace. I want you to say that a woman like me is an
adult human female, that men cannot become women. You guys are
the party of violence, and you are the party erasing women. You
do not respect us. You are a bigot, you are a misogynist, you
are a sexist. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Governor Walz. Congresswoman?
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady yields back.
Ms. Mace. Mr. Chairman, I would ask unanimous consent----
Chairman Comer. I recognize Ms. Ocasio-Cortez from New
York.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. All right, well that was some kind of
bingo going on over there. I do not know what is going on.
Anyways.
Ms. Mace. Oh, I know what is going on. Thank you.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. So, thank you to the witnesses for
coming here today. I apologize for the treatment that the four
of you have been subjected to. And Governor Walz, I just have
to say I know you are getting a lot of grief from the Majority
here, but we are talking about individuals who have cheered on
an individual who issued a Nazi salute from behind the
Presidential Seal of the United States of America, who have
cheered on the pardoning of individuals who attacked the United
States Capitol and flew a Nazi flag and the flag of the
Confederacy, traitors to the United States, sworn enemies of
the United States of America, through The Capitol of this
Nation. And now they want to act offended because someone has
the courage to say if it walks like a duck and it talks like a
duck, maybe it is a duck. So, I want to thank you for not
wavering to their bullying, which is unconscionable and sad to
see. So, I just wanted to let you know that, Governor. Thank
you.
Governor Walz. Thank you, Congresswoman.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. To the three of you, Governor Walz,
Governor Pritzker and Governor Hochul, you three have each
sworn in oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the
United States of America, correct? I will start with you.
Governor Walz. Yes.
Governor Pritzker. Yes, ma'am.
Governor Hochul. Yes, I have.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. And I imagine that also includes the
Fourth and Fifth Amendment protections for due process and the
rule of law.
Governor Walz. It does.
Governor Pritzker. Sure does.
Governor Hochul. Yes.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. And that means protecting your people in
your states, U.S. citizens and every individual, because that
is what makes America great, that we are a land of the free and
of rule of law to protect them from infringements of their
civil liberties, correct?
Governor Walz. Yes.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Now, what we are seeing is a pattern
where ICE is breaking the law. We have the detention of a U.S.
citizen who has been detained by immigration officials. We have
ICE here that has also blamed and arrested U.S. citizens for
being simply suspected of being an immigrant, largely because
of their appearance. In January, a Chicago-based U.S.-born
citizen, Julio Noriega, was arrested by ICE and held in custody
for over ten hours. In April, a Florida highway patrol officer
pulled over Juan Carlos Lopez-Gomez, a United States-born
citizen and arrested him on suspicion of being in the country
illegally. He had his Real ID, his Social Security card, his
mother presented his birth certificate, and they still did not
let him go. In May, U.S. citizen, Leonardo Garcia Venegas was
filming an ICE raid. He was arrested by ICE. In May, a veteran
and U.S. citizen who is Puerto Rican--Puerto Rican--was
detained during an ICE raid at his workplace in New York City.
That is called a paper bag test, and your job, Governor Hochul,
is to protect people from that kind of infringement, correct?
Governor Hochul. Yes.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Because all of us must adhere to the
law, and no one is above it. So, if a U.S. citizen tries to
break the law or if an ICE officer tries to break the law, your
job is to uphold the law, correct?
Governor Hochul. We absolutely uphold the laws of the
United States Constitution and the Constitution of the State of
New York.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. And sanctuary states are about U.S.
citizens as well having sanctuary against the attacks on our
constitutional rights from illegal search and seizure. There is
nothing preventing ICE from issuing a warrant and you having
complete compliance with their request, correct, Governor
Hochul?
Governor Hochul. We comply in cases where there has been a
criminal activity alleged, yes, we always do, but we are not
involved in civil immigration enforcement because our state
police, that I control, have to deal with other crimes that
they are solving.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Yes, and apologies, I just have ten
seconds left. But when they say illegal versus legal
immigration, they are trying to end legal status in the United
States as well, correct, Governor Pritzker, with the end of TPS
and making people undocumented by removing legal status, ending
legal status, and then having the audacity to call them illegal
when they were here documented, correct?
Governor Pritzker. Taking students' visas away from people,
taking their legal right to be in the United States away from
them when they have been granted, maybe years earlier, to stay.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. So, I do not want to hear about how this
is about illegal versus legal immigration. They are attacking
legal status and removing legal status. The Republican Majority
is anti-legal immigration in the United States, and I want to
make that very clear, and I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes----
Mr. Frost. Mr. Chair? I have a unanimous consent request.
Chairman Comer. Mr. Frost.
Mr. Frost. Unanimous consent request to enter into the
record an NBC article: ``Senator Alex Padillo removed from news
conference with Homeland Security Secretary Noem.''
Chairman Comer. All right. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Frost. I have another one, The Hill article, ``Padilla
forcibly removed from Noem press conference.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Frost. And I have a third one, Axios: ``Democratic
senator forcibly removed from DHS press conference.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Frost. We were just talking about this. I want to know
if you can commit to working with us so we can subpoena----
Chairman Comer. You are out of order. The Chair recognizes
Ms. Greene.
Mr. Frost. I have a point of order.
Chairman Comer. No.
Mr. Frost. I have a point of order.
Chairman Comer. State your point.
Mr. Frost. We need to subpoena Secretary Noem.
Chairman Comer. That is not a point of order. The Chair
recognizes Ms. Greene for----
Mr. Frost. We just talked about this earlier.
Chairman Comer. That is not a point.
[Cross talking.]
Ms. Greene. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Reclaiming my time.
[Cross talking.]
Ms. Greene. Reclaiming my time.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Ms. Greene.
Mr. Frost. A senator was thrown to the ground.
Ms. Greene. Reclaiming my time.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Ms. Greene.
Mr. Frost. In handcuffs.
Chairman Comer. No, no
Mr. Frost. In his own damn state.
Ms. Greene. Oh, Democrats cannot follow the rules.
Chairman Comer. All right.
Ms. Greene. Cannot follow the laws.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Ms. Greene.
[Cross talking.]
Chairman Comer. No.
Ms. Greene. Cannot follow the rules. Cannot follow the law.
Mr. Frost. We need to subpoena Kristi Noem. It is her
staff.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Ms. Greene.
Mr. Frost. DHS Federal officers----
Ms. Greene. There is a privilege of the Majority----
Mr. Frost [continuing]. That threw a U.S. senator to the
ground.
Ms. Greene [continuing]. And that means we are in charge,
not your side.
Mr. Frost. Just before, we were talking about this
happening to governors.
Ms. Greene. Because you lost the election.
[Cross talking.]
Chairman Comer. All right. All right. Ms. Greene, we are
going to start the clock.
Mr. Frost. Do you have anything to say about that?
Ms. Greene. Because you supported the invasion of our
country.
Chairman Comer. All right.
Ms. Greene. My time.
Mr. Frost. Will you commit on the record----
Chairman Comer. Stop the clock.
Mr. Frost [continuing]. That we are going to subpoena
Kristi Noem?
Ms. Greene. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
Chairman Comer. Okay. You are out of order. The Chair
recognizes Ms. Greene.
Mr. Frost. Will you commit on the record----
Ms. Greene. Thank you.
Mr. Frost [continuing]. To subpoenaing Kristi Noem because
a U.S. senator was just thrown to the ground and detained in
his own state?
Chairman Comer. Mr. Frost----
Ms. Greene. Democrats cannot follow the rules, cannot
follow the law.
Chairman Comer [continuing]. You are out of order.
Mr. Frost. Will you----
Chairman Comer. Shut up. Just shut up.
Mr. Frost. No, you do not----
Chairman Comer. Shut up.
Mr. Frost. No, you are not going to tell me to shut up.
Mr. Lynch. Hold on.
Chairman Comer. How do you get him in order?
Mr. Frost. Not like that.
Chairman Comer. He has been out of order six times. He is
trying to get on MSNBC. You probably knocked somebody off MSNBC
to get on there.
Mr. Frost. I do not have any problem getting on there.
Chairman Comer. Ms. Greene is recognized.
Ms. Greene. I think because he has been arrested as a
former Antifa member, right? Antifa.
Chairman Comer. Well, okay. Back to order. Ms. Greene, go.
Ms. Greene. He is a former Antifa member, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Comer. All right. Ms. Greene, you are recognized.
You got it.
Ms. Greene. No surprise.
Mr. Frost. Who is a former Antifa member, me?
Ms. Greene. Yes, you.
Mr. Frost. I ask that these words be taken down.
Chairman Comer. No. Ms. Greene----
Ms. Greene. Thank you.
Chairman Comer [continuing]. You are recognized.
Mr. Frost. I ask that these words be taken down.
Ms. Greene. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Lynch. There is a motion on the floor.
Chairman Comer. Ms. Greene is recognized.
Mr. Frost. I ask that these words be taken down.
Ms. Greene. Governor Hochul, you stated that you are a
proud Democrat, proud registered Democrat.
Chairman Comer. All right. We got to suspend. There has
been a parliamentary move. They said they were not going to do
that.
Mr. Lynch. Just ask her to strike what she said.
Chairman Comer. Okay. Suspend for 2 minutes, and while we
are suspending, we have votes in about seven minutes. We are
going to try to get three more questioners in, then we will
break for, I think there are four votes, and we will come back
right after the last vote. We do not have that many more
questioners, so.
[Pause.]
Ms. Greene. Mr. Chairman?
Chairman Comer. Yes?
Ms. Greene. I move to revise my remarks. Congressman Frost
was arrested in 2021 at a voting rights rally.
Chairman Comer. Okay. Without objection.
Mr. Frost. Proudly.
Chairman Comer. All right. The Chair recognizes Ms. Greene.
Ms. Greene. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Governor Hochul, you
stated that you are a proud registered Democrat.
Governor Hochul. Yes, I did. Is that illegal now, too, in
your country?
[Laughter.]
Ms. Greene. Governor Hochul, this is not a laughing matter.
You also stated that you swore an oath to uphold the laws of
New York, and one of the laws that you have upheld and proudly
kept in place is the executive order signed by former Governor
Andrew Cuomo that directs that no state officers or employees,
including law enforcement officers, shall disclose information
to Federal immigration authorities for the purpose of Federal
civil immigration enforcement unless required by law. And
because of your state's policies of paying for flights of
illegal aliens, we ended up with Jose Ibarra in our State of
Georgia.
And I am a mother of three children, and two out of my
three, I have two daughters, and you are a mother. Is that
correct?
Governor Hochul. Yes, it is.
Ms. Greene. Yes, and I think you have got two children. You
have one daughter. Is that right?
Governor Hochul. That is correct.
Ms. Greene. And so, you and I are both mothers, and there
is one mother that I wish could be here today and could talk to
you instead of me, and that is Allison Phillips. That is Laken
Riley's mother, and we talked about Laken a few minutes ago.
There is a really special bond between mothers and daughters,
and we speak with our daughters daily. We speak with our
daughters all day long. We speak with our daughters about every
single thing that is happening in our lives and every single
thing that happening in their lives. And I want you to know the
last time that Laken Riley and her mother, Allison Phillips,
tried to talk to each other, and that happened to be in the
morning when Laken was getting ready to go out and go for her
morning jog.
And on the morning of her murder, at 8:55 a.m., Riley
texted her mother and said, ``Good morning. About to go for a
run if you are free to talk,'' and I can tell you that is
something I do with my girls, and they text me, and I am sure
you and your daughter text each other as well. But she did not
get her mother, and then Riley called her mother just a few
minutes later at 9:03 a.m. as she was starting to listen to
music, but she did not get her mom on the phone. And the trail
cam actually captured her going out for her run at 9:05 a.m. At
9:11, Laken called 9-1-1. This was just not but a few minutes
after she had tried to call her mother.
And then at 9:24, Laken received a call from her mother,
but it went unanswered, and at 9:28, Laken's heart stopped, and
according to the data of her smartwatch, Laken fought for her
life for 17 minutes. Seventeen minutes. Seventeen minutes this
little girl fought for her life as she was being beat in the
head by this monster, as she was being strangled by this
monster, as she was being almost raped by this monster, and
drug off into the woods. She fought for her life for 17
minutes, and her mom tried to call during that time, and it was
only a few minutes after she had tried to call her mother. And
I think as mothers, not politicians, this is something that we
should easily share with Allison Phillips.
So, when we are talking about the laws in place and the
policies that we uphold as elected leaders in this country, do
you know who we should be thinking about? We should be thinking
about our daughters and the fact that, look, everybody can
fight all day long--Democrat, Republican. I got to tell you,
though, it is so much bullshit when it comes down to the fact
that this little girl fought for 17 minutes of the end of her
22-year-old life. The end of her 22-year-old life. And Governor
Hochul, for the love of God, as you are a proud registered
Democrat, I do not know how on earth you can uphold laws that
protect and give aid and comfort to monsters, especially one
that was arrested in your state and let go because of your
policies in your state. And I just cannot comprehend it.
Mr. Chairman, just one more second. Laken Riley and her
mother deserve to have one last chat, like you know what, me
and you get to have chats with our daughters. Mr. Chairman, I
yield.
Chairman Comer. Yield back. They have called votes. We are
going to try to get two more questions in. I will recognize Mr.
Davis from Illinois and then Mrs. Luna.
Mr. Davis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I thank you and the
Ranking Member for letting me waive onto this hearing. I want
to thank all of the witnesses, all of the governors who have
been here, and who have been here all day. But I also want to
thank you, Governor Pritzker, for the outstanding leadership
you have provided to the State of Illinois. Our state is
characterized as being progressive and humane. Could you share
why we think that is important, you as Governor and I as a
citizen resident?
Governor Pritzker. Well, we had to do a lot of reform of
our state government in order to get there, but it is important
to me that we provide healthcare, that we provide education for
all of our people, that we have policies and a government that
take care of, particularly, those who are most vulnerable in
our society, including working families, including the middle
class, and it is very important to me that we be known for
that. We are a state that is, frankly, cares a great deal about
our fellow man. We are a state that is humanitarian in so many
ways and that stands up for the law, and so I am very proud of
our state.
We have the greatest state in the country, the Land of
Lincoln, and we say that proudly because we know that Lincoln
would be a Democrat today if he were alive. I am a big believer
in taking his values and promoting those as well as the values
now of today's Illinois and promoting those, and we have done
that and, frankly, succeeded in so many ways to lift people up.
Thank you.
Mr. Davis. Well, thank you. We are proud of you and your
leadership, and I yield back, Mr.----
Mr. Moskowitz. Will the gentleman yield?
Chairman Comer. The gentlemen yields back. The Chair
recognizes Mrs. Luna from Florida.
Mr. Davis. Mr. Chairman, point of inquiry. Did you skip me
in the order on purpose? Just curious.
Chairman Comer. It must have been an oversight, Mr.
Moskowitz. The Chair recognizes Mrs. Luna.
Mr. Moskowitz. Well, this is the Oversight Committee, which
has lots of oversight.
Mrs. Luna. Gentlemen. Gentlemen, please. I would like to
ask my questions.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mrs. Luna.
Mr. Moskowitz. The fact that he is, you know, suppressing
free speech.
Chairman Comer. Mrs. Luna, you are recognized.
Mrs. Luna. Thank you very much, Chairman. First and
foremost, I would like to take this opportunity to educate the
American people on what is really happening right now with
these riots. So, I see right now there is a lot of back-and-
forth and finger pointing, but the fact is, is that there is a
financial tie to these riots tied to immigration that actually
leads right back to the Communist Chinese party.
The LA riots have been organized by an organization dubbed
PSL, the Party for Socialism and Liberation, funded by
billionaire Chinese activist, Neville Singham, who spends parts
of his year by living in Shanghai. In addition to that,
although he is not a registered foreign agent, he accepts a lot
of money from the CCP and then turns around and funnels it
right into some of these violent protests that we are seeing,
but it does not just stop there. This is not the only organized
protest that is using Brown people and immigrants as a ruse to
push their Communist and Marxist agenda.
Mr. Waltz, thank you for coming in today to testify, or Mr.
Walz. Real quick, is it true, yes or no, that you are speaking
at the June 14 Twin Cities No King Rally?
Governor Walz. I cannot confirm that right now.
Mrs. Luna. Okay.
Governor Walz. Could be true.
Mrs. Luna. Okay. Just so you know, they are advertising you
speaking there.
Governor Walz. Okay.
Mrs. Luna. The graphic is actually on X right now. I would
be happy to provide it for you, so I will take that as probably
speaking. Is it true also, I know on your campaign that you had
admitted to visiting China anywhere from 15 to 30 times, sir.
Yes or no, please?
Governor Walz. I did live in China.
Mrs. Luna. Okay. No, no, visiting, sir, in addition to
living there and in addition to having----
Governor Walz. Yes, that is correct.
Mrs. Luna. All right. Also, too, I would like to note that
during your time in Congress, that you filed for a $5 million
earmark that actually was secured. Two million of it went to
the Hormel Institute that actually collaborated with the Wuhan
Institute. Also, the Department of Homeland Security, sir, just
so that you are tracking, actually had an internal memo that
was released that stated that the Government of China
considered you a prime target for influence operations. I am
letting you know that now because I do believe that you should
be made aware, if you are not already, that you are working
with and going to be speaking at an organization and rally that
not is just funded by Christie Walton, the heiress of Walmart,
but also has ties to the Chinese Progressive Association
largely funding it that actually brags on their website that
they are pro-Maoist. Also, too, funded by the National
Endowment for Democracy. I know there are a lot of people on
this committee that do not like billionaires interfering in
politics, but say nothing when George Soros gets over $260
million from USAID through the last Administration that is then
funneled into some of these nonprofits and organizations.
So, I guess my question for you guys is, now that I have
made you aware that these riots are not about illegals and they
are not about immigrants--if they did, they would have been
protesting under Barack Obama, who is also dubbed the deporter-
in-chief, and, frankly, I think many of you would say that
Barack Obama was a good President. Are you going to say that
Barack Obama was not a good President? Yes or no, Governor
Walz. Do you think he was a good President?
Governor Walz. Do I think Barack Obama was a good
President?
Mrs. Luna. Correct.
Governor Walz. I think he did a good job.
Mrs. Luna. Okay. How about you, Governor Pritzker?
Governor Pritzker. I think he did a good job, yes.
Mrs. Luna. Hochul?
Governor Hochul. Hochul, and, yes, he did do a good job.
Mrs. Luna. Okay. Next, Perryman?
Ms. Perryman. I think President Obama did a good job.
Mrs. Luna. So, then, you would understand that Barack Obama
had the very same policies, for the most part, on immigration
that Republicans are parroting today, and yet you guys are
sitting here saying that we are Gestapo. And what I would tell
you is that what happens with open borders is that the real
people that are coming here, the ones that are exploited,
actually it hurts people on both sides, not just Americans but
the illegals. Some of you had said here, to the actual
Committee, that you are doing what you can to assist these
people, but what I would say is that your policies are not
actually done from a place of understanding and sympathy. I
would say that it is actually doing the exact opposite.
And when you use Brown people, just like they use Black
people with Black Lives Matter (BLM) and Marxists during BLM to
usher that in, when you use Brown people and you put Mexican
flags with them saying that you stand up for illegal
immigrants, but you follow the money and it is going back to
the communist party, what you are essentially doing is using
your platform as elected officials, the trust the American
people have put in you, essentially, to usher in communism. You
are not actually fighting for American values. Do not roll your
eyes because it is a serious topic, and that is where the money
is coming from.
So, now I am informing you so now you guys can make your
decisions, but please be informed, sir, Mr. Walz, that if you
truly do uphold the American ideologies and perspectives on the
Constitution, you should not be speaking at that rally. I have
given you the correct information, and as of right now, I have
authorized a letter to be sent to my office to the President of
the United States to rescind millions of dollars in funding
that we know are going to the No Kings Protest that were
authorized and basically given under the last Administration.
That is what Congress is supposed to do: not point fingers, not
blame people, but actually ensure that the American people are
protected and not fighting for foreign interest, foreign
governments, and also the communists.
Mr. Goldman. Will the generally yield for a question?
Mrs. Luna. No. Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Goldman. You do not want to tell us what your evidence
is of all these actions?
Mrs. Luna. Actually, no, I will yield for that.
Mr. Goldman. You know, I appreciate----
Chairman Comer. Mr. Goldman, you will get 5 minutes in a
minute.
[Cross talking.]
Mr. Goldman [continuing]. Take your word for it.
Mrs. Luna. I will. Let me answer the question. Let me
answer the question.
Chairman Comer. Mr. Goldman.
Mr. Goldman. But you appreciate we might want actual
evidence.
Mrs. Luna. I will happy to provide that, and I would also
be happy to inform, Chairman, that actually we have a letter of
which you can sign on to. I know you like to sign on to letters
with us, especially on the Epstein stuff, but we actually have
a letter going out to Neville Singham on Friday, and it is
actually signed by every single Member of Oversight. I would
like to extend that to you because that letter is calling him
to testify, and it is also calling for his financial
transactions. And do you agree, sir, that we should not be
accepting money from the Communist Chinese Party? I think
anyone on this platform would agree that that should not be
accepted, correct?
Mr. Goldman. I would like for you to actually present
evidence----
Mrs. Luna. We are, right? Yes.
Mr. Goldman [continuing]. Rather than just ``inform the
witnesses,'' and now that they are informed, I could assume
what you say is true----
Mrs. Luna. Look, I do not disrespect you. I am going to
answer your question.
Mr. Goldman [continuing]. When it could either be debunked
as a right-wing----
Mrs. Luna. We are having a hearing on it where we can
present all the evidence.
Chairman Comer. Order.
Mrs. Luna. No, but let us have----
Chairman Comer. Yes, go ahead. You are recognized, Mrs.
Luna.
Mrs. Luna. We are going to be having a hearing, and you can
gavel on to the hearing. I would appreciate you to do it,
because the fact is, is that the Democrat Party--remember that,
look----
Mr. Goldman. Is it going to be as good as the Biden
impeachment hearing?
Chairman Comer. Mr. Goldman, you will have 5 minutes in a
moment.
Mrs. Luna. Let us keep it focused, real quick. I would like
to go a step further.
Mr. Moskowitz. Well, Mr. Chairman, she is out of time.
Obviously, you are trying to not let me talk.
Mrs. Luna. Guys, if you guys want to talk about it, I will
answer the question, but Mr. Singham is also funding Code Pink
through his wife.
Mr. Moskowitz. You know what? It is my turn.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Can we ask Elon to divest from China
while we are at it?
Chairman Comer. The lady's time has expired. The lady's
time has expired.
Mrs. Luna. Okay. Thank you very much. We will be having the
hearing. You all are invited.
Mr. Moskowitz. Thank you.
Mrs. Luna. We might have you guys back. Thank you.
Chairman Comer. All right. Thank you. Before we go to
votes, which have been called, I am going to recognize Mr.
Donalds for a unanimous consent.
Mr. Donalds. Mr. Chairman, I want to submit a letter into
the record from Congressman Richie Torres to Governor Hochul
speaking specifically about that the Penn Station Center is
actually being led by The Metropolitan Transportation Authority
(MTA) where the Chairman is actually appointed by the Governor
of New York, and the cost overruns of $7 billion.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
And again, the witnesses, I apologize. The votes were
supposed to be at four when we scheduled this. They have been
moved to three. We have four or five votes. We will come back
here as soon as the last vote.
So, pursuant to the previous order, the Committee will
recess for Floor votes. The Committee will return 5 minutes
after the last vote. There are only seven or eight more
questioners, so the Committee stands in recess.
[Recess.]
Chairman Comer. And the Chair recognizes--and I appreciate
the witness' indulgence here. Again, we were told the votes
would be at 4:15, and they were at three, so I apologize. We
had two more votes than we were supposed to.
So, the Chair recognizes Mr. Burlison from Missouri.
Mr. Burlison. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am just still kind
of trying to understand the connection between our ICE officers
and the Gestapo. I think the statement was horrific. The acting
ICE Director had this to say, ``On the final day of National
Police Week, when those brave enough to put on a badge and a
uniform to mourn their fallen brothers and sisters, Minnesota
Governor, Tim Walz, referred to my professional, hardworking
ICE agents and officers as a modern-day Gestapo. This is
abhorrent, dehumanizing, and ignorant comments should not be
tolerated. It seems that Mr. Walz prefers violent criminal
aliens are released into Minnesota's communities. If the
Governor does not like the laws, he is free to advocate that
Congress changed them, but he should refrain from putting ICE
officers in danger by likening them to one of the most
appalling groups in history. Assaults on against ICE officers
are up over 400 percent from this time last period, and part of
that is because politicians like Governor Walz are careless
with their politically motivated rhetoric. He should issue an
immediate apology to the men and women protecting his
communities.''
Governor Hochul, do you agree with the statements that
Governor Walz said? Do you agree with the characterization that
ICE agents are Gestapo?
Governor Hochul. I do not use language like that in
describing anyone.
Mr. Burlison. Thank you.
Governor Hochul. My view is that we respect our law
enforcement, but also in a case where people have gone too far,
they should be called out.
Mr. Burlison. Governor Pritzker, do you agree with that
association, associating ICE officers with Gestapo?
Governor Pritzker. It is not a word I would use, but I will
say that I understand the sentiments that people feel.
Mr. Burlison. Okay. Well, thank you for being reasonable
here. Next door, Governor Walz, is a group called--they were
actually meeting here today--the Zionist Organization of
America, and I spoke with Morton Klein, who is their national
President and he had this to say. He wanted me to read this to
you. ``As a child of Holocaust survivors who lost almost my
whole family to Gestapo Nazis, I find Governor Walz comparing
Americans ICE officials to Nazis a dramatic insult. Walz should
be ashamed of himself, and I demand that he retract and
apologize for this ugly, phony statement that diminishes the
horror of the Holocaust.'' So, I am going to give you another
chance, Governor Walz. Do you apologize for your comparison to
ICE agents as Gestapo?
Governor Walz. Thank you, Mr. Burlison. What I said is
using a historical reference on authoritarianism, watching in
my state and across this country on covered faces----
Mr. Burlison. Governor Walz, it is simple question.
Governor Walz. [continuing]. Covered faces.
Mr. Burlison. Will you apologize to this Jewish community?
Will you apologize to Jewish Americans?
Governor Walz. I do not know Mr. Klein. I would certainly
be glad to speak with him if he would like.
Mr. Burlison. Okay. Mr. Walz, let me ask you this question.
Are there any events that you regret from actions of illegal
immigrants in your state? Are there any events that come to
mind that you think of that weigh on you?
Governor Walz. I certainly think something that harmed
someone, all of----
Mr. Burlison. So, let me give you an idea. Minnesota, your
state, April 25, ICE arrested an illegal alien from Ecuador
charged for criminal sexual conduct with a child. Again, in
Minnesota, on May 8, ICE arrested an illegal alien from Mexico
for selling heroin, meth, and fentanyl. Mr. Pritzker in
Chicago, in 2018, an illegal alien from Mexico is charged with
aggravated criminal sexual abuse of a minor, then was released
back into the public in 2022. And then, Governor Hochul, in New
York, again, a Mexican national was charged, but this time for
slashing a victim with a machete and then released in January
of this year, ignoring ICE detainers and Federal warrant. Mr.
Walz, would you deport any of these individuals?
Governor Walz. Could you give the names of the individuals
and what their----
Mr. Burlison. I can get those to you, but if these are
true, if somebody from Ecuador was charged with criminal sexual
conduct with a child, would you want that person deported?
Governor Walz. If they followed through due process and
were found guilty, certainly. That is what we do now. We follow
Federal law.
Mr. Burlison. Your states refuse to honor ICE detainers,
even for illegal aliens convicted of serious crimes like
assault or sexual offenses. The ICE data shows that----
Governor Walz. That is incorrect.
Mr. Burlison [continuing]. 56,791 illegal aliens booked for
serious offenses in 2025 alone, including over 3,000 for sex
crimes, and that is why we are here today. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. The Chair now
recognizes Mr. Crane from Arizona.
Mr. Crane. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Governor Walz, you
stated in your opening statement the following: ``But nothing
Minnesota has done stands in the way of Federal Government
managing its border security policy.'' Governor, I want to ask
you, why are you lying to this Committee?
Governor Walz. I am not, Congressman.
Mr. Crane. Who is the top law enforcement officer in the
State of Minnesota?
Governor Walz. The top law enforcement officer?
Mr. Crane. Yep.
Governor Walz. Attorney general.
Mr. Crane. Yes, that is right. What is his name? What is
his name?
Governor Walz. Are you asking me do you know his name?
Mr. Crane. Do you know his name? Do you know his name?
Governor Walz. I know the AG. AG Ellison.
Mr. Crane. This is an article right here I would like to
submit for the record. ``Minnesota AG says will not enforce
Federal immigration laws as DOJ threatens to prosecute
officials who resist.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Crane. Why are you lying to this Committee? That is the
top law enforcement officer in your state who is saying he will
not comply with the Federal Government.
Governor Walz. Nothing in his opinion changes the fact that
state law requires all state and county officials to ask for
immigration status when a convicted felon----
Mr. Crane. No, I am sorry, Governor. He is saying he will
not comply with Federal laws. That is your top law enforcement
officer.
Governor Walz. Nothing in this opinion changes.
Mr. Crane. You are lying and misrepresenting yourself to
this Committee. Now, I want to ask you this. Do you think, in
that line of questioning, free healthcare, food assistance,
free college tuition, driver's licenses, and cash assistance,
do you think that that is helping or hurting this government
manage its border security and policies?
Governor Walz. Well, Minnesota ranks first in healthcare.
We rank third in safety on the roads.
Mr. Crane. Let me answer that for you. It is actually
hurting because what you created----
Governor Walz. Making our state safer and more profitable.
There is no law----
Mr. Crane [continuing]. Is you have created a state that is
now a magnet that is drawing illegals to Minnesota.
Governor Walz. There is no sanctuary law in Minnesota,
Congressman.
Mr. Crane. I know you guys have not put it that way on the
books, but your state has everything, every element in it, that
is consistent with a sanctuary state.
Governor Walz. That is incorrect.
Mr. Crane. Moving on, Mr. Walz. How about you calling ICE
agents modern-day Gestapo? Do you think that that helps our
Federal Government carry out its law enforcement of border
security policies?
Governor Walz. I think best practice and law enforcement by
identifying who you are, identifying the vehicles, and making
sure everyone has due process helps our law enforcement. I
think covering your faces----
Mr. Crane. So, you think that that helps, calling our law
enforcement agents that. What does ICE stand for, Governor?
Immigration Custom Enforcement, right? These are the guys that
are tasked with enforcing Federal immigration laws?
Governor Walz. That is right. That is their job. It is not
the states' job.
Mr. Crane. Do you think that calling them Gestapo is
helping? None of the messaging, none of the rhetoric is
standing in the way of this Administration doing what they have
been tasked to do. Is that what you are saying?
Governor Walz. I think what would help them is to follow
due process, and when they do these missions, do the things
that we expect of law enforcement to identify themselves.
Mr. Crane. How about when you went on ``Anderson Cooper,''
Governor Walz, and you said, ``How high is this wall? If it is
25 feet, then I will invest in a 30-foot ladder factory.'' Do
you think that that helps our Federal Government carry out its
law enforcement, its border security, and policy operations?
Governor Walz. When did I say that?
Mr. Crane. You went on ``Anderson Cooper'' and said that.
Do you not remember saying that because you have said so many
outlandish things that you cannot even keep track of them?
Governor Walz. No, I do not recall, the point being is----
Mr. Crane. The clip is there for everybody. It is there for
all Americans. If you guys want to go watch it, it is an easy
Google. All right. Governor, you recently went on Gavin
Newsom's podcast. You stated, in regards to ``Make America
Great Again'' (MAGA) voters, ``I scare them a little bit, which
is why they spend so much time on me. No, I am serious, because
they know I can fix a truck.'' That is your direct quote. You
also said on the show, ``I think I could kick most of their
asses.'' I want to be very clear with you, Governor, you do
scare us a bit, but it is not because you can fix a truck or
change a tire. It is actually because of your radical left-wing
agenda. You supported putting tampons in boys' bathrooms. You
advocated for the disarming of Americans of their Second
Amendment rights. You are pro-sanctuary city, as we have
uncovered here today. You claim there is no guarantee to free
speech when it comes to misinformation and hate speech. That
right there is why the American people have such a hard time
with you. It is not because we are crazy MAGA people. It is
because of your radical left-wing agenda.
I want to ask you on that last one where you claim there is
no guarantee to free speech, did you pick that up on one of
your 30 trips to Communist China, Governor? That sounds a lot
like something that they would do. Yes or no?
Governor Walz. I am sorry. I do not believe hate speech has
a place in there, hate speech that incites violence.
Mr. Crane. Governor Walz, you said that Kamala Harris
picked you for Vice President to code talk to white guys. How
did that work out for this Administration? How well did you do
with white guys?
Governor Walz. I do not have the----
Mr. Crane. You lost by 22 points to white guys, and it is
because you talk like the way you do, you say the things you
do, and you have this radical left-wing ideology. So, if you
want to continue that rhetoric, go on, brother, keep doing it.
We will keep destroying you in elections. Thank you, and I
yield back.
Governor Walz. The people of Minnesota will continue to
have me serve them.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Ms. Ramirez from
Illinois.
Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, Chairman. I want to start by
acknowledging Governor Pritzker from our great state of
Illinois and thank him for coming before the Committee,
especially given the deeply unserious nature of this hearing. I
want to start by asking Governor Pritzker a few questions.
Governor, you have said that actions that bring all branches of
government to stand in respect of one another underpin the
guardrails of democracy. Is it your assessment that this
Administration's actions reflect the commitment to stand in
respect of all branches of government or honor the guardrails
of our democracy?
Governor Pritzker. Thank you very much, Congresswoman, and
it is good to see you. This Administration has ignored court
orders. This Administration has ignored the laws that have been
passed by the Congress. This Administration is in many ways
telling its agencies not to follow the laws and the regulations
that have been on the books, and this Administration has been
going after people, individually and as groups, that they
believe are political opponents of theirs. That is not the way
that a President ought to operate. We ought to have a President
who follows the rule of law and does not break it.
Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, Governor. I agree with you. In your
2025 budget address, you noted that our state, the State of
Illinois, is among the best in the Nation for workforce talent,
clean energy, educational and scientific institutions, and
more. I could not agree with you more. Our economy is over $1.1
trillion, the fifth largest in the United States and the 18th
largest in the world. And I understand that we are one of only
nine states, including New York and Minnesota, whose taxpayers
contribute more to the Federal Government that they receive, so
I just want to make sure I put that to the record. This is who
we are putting here at a hearing.
Governor, earlier this year, you noted that, ``The
authoritarian playbook is laid bare here. They point to a group
of people who do not look like you, and then they tell you to
blame them for your problems.'' Governor Pritzker, do you
believe that the Trump Administration is using the
authoritarian playbook, particularly as it relates to immigrant
communities across the country?
Governor Pritzker. It is clear when you look at every
action that they have taken with regard to immigration since
they have taken office, including going in and attacking our
communities in the State of Illinois. I think, in the first
week in office, Tom Homan bringing Dr. Phil with him
unseriously, and then bringing the very serious ICE officials
in to break down doors, to scare communities, to keep people
from going to work, and so on. It is clear that they are
targeting communities of people who do not look like them and
going after people that they think are opponents of theirs or--
--
Ms. Ramirez. Including United States senators, Governor.
Governor Pritzker. Including, thank you, Alex Padilla. And
by the way, I want to say to all of you--all of you--on both
sides, but particularly those on the Republican side, that I
cannot believe the disrespect that was shown to a United States
senator who was thrown down, handcuffed, and not allowed to ask
a question of our Secretary of Homeland Security, Kristi Noem.
That seems completely irrational.
Ms. Ramirez. Governor, I agree with you, and because I have
a limited time----
Governor Pritzker. Yes.
Ms. Ramirez [continuing]. I actually want to show the
footage because I think what you are saying has to be seen
here. I am going to ask now that we play a clip of Senator
Padilla being wrongfully arrested while we are in this hearing.
Go ahead and play it. A United States senator. I want to make
sure that people see.
Ms. Ramirez. They do not want you recording so that you do
not see how they violate due process repeatedly. I want to make
sure that you see that footage. This is a United State senator
asking a question of Secretary Noem, and, in return, he is
pulled from the press conference, shoved down to the floor,
slammed to the ground with handcuffs, arrested for doing his
job of oversight. So, let me go ahead and make sure that I say
this clear because I serve on Homeland Security, and I can tell
you for a fact they are weaponizing the government and the
military against U.S. citizens to exert control and suppress
dissent. I call that authoritarianism. We have seen it before.
Here is the point: terror, that is what they are doing
here. This hearing is a witch hunt against the governors that
run successful cities, and we need to call it what it is. What
we need here right now is Secretary Noem answering questions in
Oversight on why the hell she thinks that what happened to the
senator is acceptable. With that, I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady yields back. Hopefully, you
will get to see the beginning of that tape when he approached
the podium where the Secretary was. You had not seen that yet?
Mr. Goldman. To ask a question.
Mr. Lynch. Mr. Chairman, on the full statement of the
Committee on the Democratic side, ``Senator Padilla is
currently in Los Angeles exercising his duty to perform
congressional oversight of the Federal Government operations in
Los Angeles and across California. He was in the Wilshire of
Federal Building to receive a briefing with General Guillot and
was listening to Secretary Noem's press conference. He tried to
ask the Secretary a question and was forcibly removed by
Federal agents forced to the ground as you saw and handcuffed.
He is not currently detained, and we are working to get
additional information.'' And while we respect the Senate's
ability to review this as a primary investigation, we also echo
Ms. Ramirez's statement that we would like to have an
investigation of that incident here from beginning to end.
Chairman Comer. Do you want to enter that into the record?
Mr. Lynch. I do.
Chairman Comer. All right. Without objection, so ordered.
Now, the Chair recognizes Mr. Jack. Okay. Wait a minute. We
did two Republicans, so we are going to go to Mr. Goldman.
Mr. Goldman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would urge you to
reserve comment on what happened to Mr. Padilla until you get
full information. In fact, I would urge all of my Republican
colleagues to take a breath before you once again desperately
run to bend the knee to Donald Trump and to Kristi Noem because
anyone with two eyes that can see, can see that that was
authoritarian, lawless behavior that no person in America, much
less a senator conducting constitutional oversight, should have
received. And I know it is hard for all of you to speak up
against Donald Trump, and that is why we are here at this
hearing talking all about Joe Biden, talking all about Joe
Biden's policy this Joe Biden's policy that, all these people
who committed crimes under Joe Biden. Is just because you are
consistently trying to ignore the fact that Joe Biden is not
President? Donald Trump is President, and what he is doing
right now, which you all know, is he is going after people who
are lawfully present.
Now, I appreciate the governors being here. I am sorry you
have to deal with this crap. Governor Hochul, especially, I
want you to know, as a proud member of the delegation of your
state, I am not going to use my 5 minutes to mount a campaign
for governor against you as my colleague from the North Country
chose to do. I will give you the opportunity to actually answer
some questions, unlike she did, and I will allow you to explain
exactly what the policies in New York are as it relates to
cooperation between the state and Federal agents.
Governor Hochul. First of all, glad you are not running
against me. Thank you. Second, I appreciate the opportunity to
break through all the noise here today and to stop the talking
points that keep mischaracterizing our policies in the great
State of New York.
New York is not a sanctuary or a haven for criminals. We
devote an enormous amount of our energy working to keep New
Yorkers safe, $2.5 billion I have allocated just in the last
few years. We do cooperate with ICE when it comes to
investigating or building a case against criminals. We do this
all the time, and when someone goes through the criminal
justice system in the State of New York, they do their time in
prison. We alert ICE 30 days in advance of when they are to be
removed, and we send them away. That is how it is supposed to
work. But what we do not do under our laws is divert our
essential resources to protect everyday New Yorkers from crimes
themselves and have that help ICE with civil immigration
enforcement. That is their job. That is a Federal Government's
job, and we cannot be told to enforce Federal laws. It is not
constitutional.
Mr. Goldman. Or to use all your limited resources to spend
all that time doing their job.
Governor Hochul. That is right. My concern is that every
minute that ICE officers are going after moms and dads and kids
and separating families, perhaps one more criminal is still out
there at large.
Mr. Goldman. Well, it is funny you say that.
Governor Hochul. Why don't you focus on them?
Mr. Goldman. I am sorry to interrupt you because I,
actually, in my district office down in lower Manhattan
witnessed ICE officers waiting for immigrants to come out of a
courtroom. These are immigrants who have asylum applications,
and I am sure you agree with me that asylum is a lawful pathway
to immigrate to this country. Is that correct?
Governor Hochul. That is absolutely correct.
Mr. Goldman. So, in order to make these immigrants here
unlawfully, the DHS is now dismissing their cases, their own
removal proceedings against them, to void out the asylum claim.
That way, when they go downstairs in the elevator, there are
ICE agents that can be there to arrest them and put them in
expedited removal, and they do not have an asylum claim that is
live anymore because they have just voided it out. These are
non-criminal, these are nonviolent immigrants who are here
going through lawful process, and this is who the Trump
Administration is going after every single day. It is a
disgrace.
You said you were going to go after the worst of the worst.
You were going to go after convicted criminals. You are here
questioning about all these criminals. You are going after
people who actually are going through the lawful process you
say they should, but just because Donald Trump and Stephen
Miller need to bump up their numbers because they cannot do a
good enough job in actually finding convicted criminals, you
are going after moms, dads, separating parents from children.
You have a voice, Republicans. Speak up. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. Now the Chair recognizes Mr. Jack. Is he
here? Okay. Mr. McGuire from Virginia.
Mr. McGuire. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is a yes or no
question, hopefully fast because I do not have much time. So,
each witness one at a time, if you break the law, are you a
criminal? Can you guys answer that quickly? We do not have much
time.
Governor Pritzker. In certain circumstances, many
circumstances, yes.
Mr. McGuire. The answer should be yes. If you come across
our border illegally breaking our law to come across, are you a
criminal? Yes or no.
Governor Pritzker. If you speed, are you a criminal? I
mean, that is----
Mr. McGuire. That is the law. That is a crime.
Governor Pritzker. Okay.
Mr. McGuire. So, if you come across our border illegally,
you are a criminal. Just want to see if we can get that
straight. All right. Governor Pritzker, are illegal aliens
counted it in the U.S. Census?
Governor Pritzker. Every person in the United States is
counted.
Mr. McGuire. The census decides how many Members each state
gets in the U.S. House of Representatives. Year after year,
tens of thousands U.S. citizens are flee-ins. The State of
Illinois ranks only behind Governor Hochul's New York and
Governor Newsom's, California. You all are protecting and
harboring illegal aliens for political purposes. Governor
Pritzker, would you support prohibiting illegal aliens from
being counted in the census? Yes or no.
Governor Pritzker. Your numbers are wrong, sir.
Mr. McGuire. Would you, yes or no?
Governor Pritzker. Your numbers are wrong, sir. The
Constitution says count the census.
Mr. McGuire. Would you support prohibiting illegal aliens
from being counted in the census, or is harboring illegal
aliens part of the strategy to get more Democrats in Congress?
The bottom line is this: illegal aliens have committed a crime
and should be deported. Any additional act of violence
committed by an illegal alien is entirely preventable. All
sanctuary jurisdictions are unlawful. Each of you are breaking
the law, and my message to you or the message from the people
is you need to get it straight.
Governor Walz, just over three weeks ago, you compared ICE
agents to Donald Trump's modern-day Gestapo. Governor, do you
regret those comments?
Governor Walz. I regret that law enforcement is not
following best practices, showing who they are, not taking
people off the street, not giving due process, which puts all
of us at risk.
Mr. McGuire. We would not have a country without our men
and women in law enforcement.
Governor Walz. That is correct, and those who show their
faces----
Mr. McGuire. Yes or no, did you know ICE officers are
facing a 413-percent increase in assaults?
Governor Walz. Do not wear the masks, identify yourself,
and work with local law enforcement.
Mr. McGuire. You guys are doxxing them, all right? Your
attacks on ICE officers are putting our law enforcements in
deadly situations. It led to destructive riots breaking out in
Los Angeles last weekend. President Trump had no choice but to
step up and stop Los Angeles from burning buildings to the
ground. Did you see videos of rioters throwing rocks through
the windows of police officers' vehicles while they were
driving on the highway? Did you guys see that?
[No response.]
Mr. McGuire. Again, we would not have a country without our
men and women in law enforcement. In 2023, you signed
legislation to expand eligibility to illegal aliens for
taxpayer-funded healthcare, Minnesota driver's licenses, and
free college tuition. America last policies. Let us take a look
at some of the illegal aliens you so boldly want to support
with taxpayer funds. I will probably say his name wrong, but
Abdirashid Elmi, illegal alien from Somalia, criminal history
includes convictions of murder, DUI, and disorderly conduct;
Erick Martinez Mondragon, illegal alien from Mexico and known
member of 18th Street Gang, he served time on robbery and
possession of a firearm; and Marco Granda, illegal alien from
Ecuador, he was convicted for criminal sexual conduct of a
child. The taxpayer-funded incentives you are providing in
Minnesota bring in vicious thugs who are robbing, raping, and
killing your citizens, and American people are tired of these
America last Marxist policies.
We need more patriotism. When I look at MAGA, to me, it
makes America great again for all Americans regardless of
party, race, religion, or creed. America first, and that is why
we won the presidency and we got the Senate and the House. If
you had a basketball team and you hate your basketball team,
you will never win. And we have a heart and love all people of
the world, but if we cannot take care of our country, if we are
allowing these illegal criminal aliens to rob, rape, and kill
the American people, that is wrong, and that is why we won, and
if you guys keep that up, we will keep winning.
Governor Walz. Congressman, can I respond to the two cases
in Minnesota? I think it is important to the hearing we are
having if you want to know what we are doing. Mr. Elmi was held
in Freeborn County Jail, state resources paid for that.
Mr. McGuire. So, Governor Hochul, Sabrina Quam fell asleep
on a subway in New York. While she was asleep on a train, she
was set on fire and killed by an illegal alien from Guatemala.
This could have been prevented, and what upsets me or strikes
me the most is that in Democrat-run cities, people are so de-
sensitized by the violence and the policies that people just
stood by and watched that happen. What can we do better?
Governor Hochul. The entire situation sickens me to know
that that happened in our state. I abhor all crimes, and that
one was particularly heinous, and that is why my law
enforcement are dedicated to keeping the streets, subways, and
communities of our state safe. It is my number one priority. It
is how I have invested enormous amounts of resources. And just
for the record, we do cooperate in criminal identification,
prosecution, and removal of individuals who commit crimes who
are not in this country legally. We want them deported. We
cooperate with ICE every day of the week to make our streets
safer. I am not sure why that is not breaking through in this
hearing. How many times can we say that? We are not supporting
this. We do not want these individuals here. We abhor this
violence and crime. So, that is the message that should be the
takeaway.
How can we work together? How can you do your job and help
us secure the border, and have more legal pathways for people
who want to be here legally and contribute to our economy, but
not the criminals. We are not a sanctuary for any criminals.
Mr. McGuire. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired. Now the
Chair recognizes Ms. Morrison from Minnesota.
Ms. Morrison. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank the
witnesses for being here today, especially you, Governor Walz.
Governor Walz. Thank you, Congresswoman.
Ms. Morrison. It is great to see you as ever. Welcome back
to the People's House.
Thank you for your distinguished service in the National
Guard, 24 years, I believe. Thank you for your service here in
Congress and as our governor. I am sorry you have not received
the warmest welcome here today, but I would like to start by
taking a moment to correct the record on a few points.
I think all of us here would agree that violent criminals
who are not citizens should not be in this country, full stop,
but that is not what this hearing is about. This hearing is
about intimidation and striking fear in immigrant communities.
This hearing, unfortunately, is not about moving forward with
the comprehensive immigration reform our country so desperately
needs. It is about distracting the American people from the
disaster that has been the first few months of the Trump
Administration and his Republican Majority in Congress.
Much like our state, my congressional district is diverse.
I represent many immigrant families who call our community
home, and we welcome them because they make our communities
stronger. I recently had the honor of attending a
naturalization ceremony where we welcomed new Americans from 85
different countries. It was an incredibly moving day, an
auditorium full of new Americans who were so excited and proud
to join our Great American Project. The room was full of hope
and patriotism. I could not have been more proud to welcome
them and to participate in that day. We are a country of
immigrants. It is what makes us strong and dynamic and unique
in the world. My colleagues' characterization of our state
bears no resemblance to reality. Would you agree, sir?
Minnesota is an incredible state with a wealth of business,
industry, natural resources, beauty, and rich diversity, and it
is a state where working families thrive.
As you know, Governor, we worked together for six years
when I was in the state legislature, and I am so proud of what
we accomplished during that time. We delivered for the people
of Minnesota the largest middle class tax cut in the history of
our state, historic investments in education, created a paid
family and medical leave program that allows working parents to
care for their children and their loved ones, codifying the
right to comprehensive reproductive healthcare, and providing
school breakfast and lunches for K-12 students so no child of
Minnesota goes hungry.
If we want to talk about protecting our children and
families, let us talk about the chaotic tariff war President
Trump started, which is serving only to make life less
affordable for families and is decimating small businesses. Let
us talk about the 16 million people who are going to lose their
healthcare or going to have their healthcare taken away from
them by the Republicans and their ridiculously named Big
Beautiful Bill. Let us talk about the millions of children who
will go hungry if the Republicans are successful in taking away
their food assistance.
Governor Walz, since my Republican colleagues want to talk
about threats to our children and families, let us talk about
food insecurity. It has now been over two years since you
signed the school meals legislation into law. What has been the
impact of this program on fighting child hunger in Minnesota?
Governor Walz. Yes. Well, thank you, Congresswoman, and we
miss you in Minnesota but glad you are here. Well, the direct
impact to families is a savings of about $1,700 a year to those
families that they are able to see in mostly middle class, but
the real impact is on educational achievement. Last year,
Minnesota was able to notch the highest graduation rates in our
state history. We also see school attendance rates go up. We
see better behaviors, less discipline from it. So, it is a
smart investment, it is the right thing to do, and the payoff
for Minnesota is we have a healthier, better-educated
workforce, which is why Minnesota almost always ranks near the
top in quality-of-life indicators.
Ms. Morrison. Thank you, Governor. Now, I want to talk more
about the Republican plan to take food assistance away from our
children and families. If their budget becomes law, it will be
the biggest cut to SNAP in history and jeopardize food
assistance for millions of families across the country,
including 100,000 Minnesotans, many of whom are children. Would
you agree that the Republican proposal to cut SNAP is one of
the biggest threats facing children and families in Minnesota
right now?
Governor Walz. Yes, coupled with Medicaid and Medicare
cuts.
Ms. Morrison. And, also, Governor Walz, I just want to give
you a moment to, if there is anything you would like to clarify
that has been said in this unbelievable Committee hearing
today. I do not even know what the adjective is.
Governor Walz. Well, thank you, Congresswoman, and I know
we only have 30 seconds. Look, we are here to work with you,
which you have heard time and time again. We have a job to do
as governors. The Federal Government has a job to do. Not doing
ICE's job is not interference or not wanting to get these
people, and the gentleman asked the question and then left. The
gentleman he brought up, we held him. We paid for it. We called
DHS before he was released. The second one he mentioned, DOC
called DHS prior to his release. We do that every single time
in Minnesota. That law has been on the books for many years,
and that is how we implement it. So, I just do not understand
why we don't want to work together to be successful. None of us
want the criminals on the street, but I certainly want
immigrants in Minnesota who are contributing to our quality of
life.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady's time has expired.
Ms. Morrison. Thank you, Governor.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Ms. Boebert from
Colorado.
Ms. Boebert. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Los Angeles riots
are certainly a shameful explosion of lawlessness that we are
once again seeing. The narrative has changed in these riots,
but it is certainly the same type of actors. We are seeing
businesses torched, cars torched, families uprooted, certainly
communities that are scared, and this is by no means a peaceful
protest. It is absolute chaos, and rioters do not get a free
pass to burn down cities just simply because they are mad,
because they are mad that our Nation's laws are being upheld,
that our Federal agents are upholding their oath and doing what
they were hired to do. Our first responders deserve respect.
They do not deserve to have rocks thrown at them and to be
injured, but, I mean, let us be honest: this violence did not
really spark in a vacuum. Sanctuary policies are a magnet for
trouble. They shield criminals, undermine the rule of law.
And Governors, I have sat here and I have heard you today.
You say that safety is your number one priority. You want your
community safe, you want your people safe, and, Governor
Hochul, you just asked how can we work to ensure that that
happens. Well, that is exactly what we want to do in this
hearing. We want to work together. We want to talk to you about
your sanctuary policies that are actually preventing us from
working with you to keep your communities safe because we want
them safe as well. I have the same policies in Colorado that
restrict our local law enforcement officers from coordinating
with Federal agents, and some of my counties have issued
lawsuits to try to end that. But this is serious, and we owe it
to every American to restore safety and enforce our laws. It
has been stated that this is a Federal law, and it is not your
job to uphold the Federal law. Well, we are not asking you to
uphold it. We are just asking you to kind of step out of the
way and allow the Federal Government to do the job, to uphold
these laws. When you have someone, do not wait until they
commit a violent heinous crime before we know their immigration
status.
So, now, we are seeing these riots everywhere. We have
heard in 2020 that everything was mostly peaceful as cities
burned down, as people lost their lives, as law enforcement
officers lost their lives. So, I just want to ask you three
governors, yes or no, is the destruction of private and
governmental property, is that something that fits under your
definition of a peaceful protest? Governor Walz, yes or no.
Governor Walz. No, it does not.
Ms. Boebert. Thank you. Governor Pritzker.
Governor Pritzker. I find it hard to believe that you are
lecturing us----
Ms. Boebert. Yes or no.
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. About peaceful protest.
Ms. Boebert. Yes or no.
Governor Pritzker. Look at what happened on January 6 here
at the Capitol.
Ms. Boebert. No, what we are seeing in LA----
Governor Pritzker. The attack on our democracy.
Ms. Boebert [continuing]. Is an insurrection. You want to
talk about an insurrection?
Governor Pritzker. That is an insurrection.
Ms. Boebert. This is an absolute insurrection. They are----
Governor Pritzker. You do not understand what insurrection
is.
Ms. Boebert. I asked you a yes or no question, sir.
Governor Pritzker. When people are trying to overturn an
election here at the Congress.
Ms. Boebert. I started this off showing you decorum.
Governor Pritzker. You were here. They were attacking you,
by the way.
Ms. Boebert. I would expect the same. I would expect the
same.
Governor Pritzker. I am answering your question. It is
outrageous----
Ms. Boebert. Is it----
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. That you are asking us
these questions----
Ms. Boebert. Is it peaceful to distroy----
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. When you are the one
condoning the pardoning----
Ms. Boebert [continuing]. To destroy----
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. Of people who attacked
police.
Ms. Boebert [continuing]. Private and government property?
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. Right here at our Capitol.
Ms. Boebert. Governor Hochul. Governor Hochul, it has been
a long day. Does that fit under your definition of a peaceful
protest, the destruction of private and government property?
Governor Hochul. No, and we feel for the business owners
and the community for what is going on there----
Ms. Boebert. So do we. Yes or no----
Governor Hochul. [continuing]. But this is a narrow scope
of people, and the mass majority are peaceful.
Ms. Boebert [continuing]. Would lighting police cars on
fire fit under the definition of a peaceful protest?
Governor Hochul. No, we reject that. No one should be
lighting police cars on fire.
Ms. Boebert. Governor Pritzker, yes or no.
Governor Pritzker. I am opposed to violence in any form,
yes.
Ms. Boebert. Governor Walz.
Governor Walz. Yes, we reject that.
Ms. Boebert. Okay. Throwing bricks or large rocks at police
officers, is that peaceful?
Governor Walz. It is not.
Ms. Boebert. Is that peaceful Governor?
Governor Pritzker. Whether it is in Los Angeles or here in
Washington at the Capitol, no.
Ms. Boebert. Yes, that did not happen here. Governor
Hochul.
Governor Pritzker. Rejected.
Governor Hochul. It actually did, but, no, it is not
acceptable.
Ms. Boebert. Okay. Governor Pritzker, have you or have you
not called for mass protests and mobilization and disruption?
Governor Pritzker. Indeed. Microphones, megaphones, and
going to the ballot box.
Ms. Boebert. Well, they are responding in a much different
way, are they not? President Trump also asked for people----
Governor Pritzker. Peaceful is the history of this country.
Ms. Boebert [continuing]. Peacefully make their voices
heard, so it is okay for you to say that and hold that
standard, but President Trump has a different standard when he
is actually makes the claims peacefully?
Governor Pritzker. Inciting riots at the Capitol?
Ms. Boebert. And you said you want mass protest----
Governor Pritzker. Yes, there is a difference between the
two.
Ms. Boebert [continuing]. Mobilizations and disruption as a
response to President Trump's policies. I just think that this
is all hypocritical. You have called in your National Guard.
You do not want President Trump to come in and enforce the rule
of law to keep communities safe, and your destructive policies
are harming American citizens. We should not have to wait until
violence is committed to find out their legal status. We have
two million unknown got-aways because of Joe Biden's
Administration, and we have got to find them and get them out
of America, and I thank President Trump and his Administration
for doing just that. I yield.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady yields. The Chair recognizes
Ms. Craig from Minnesota.
Ms. Craig. Mr. Chairman, thank you so much for allowing me
to waive on to this Committee today. I think if I were a
permanent member, I would have a permanent headache.
Chairman Comer. Well, you will not have to worry about it,
but go ahead.
Ms. Craig. Governor Walz, it is so good to see you today.
Let me start by saying that we should all be against chaos. We
all are for a safe and secure border and an orderly immigration
system. What we are seeing now, though, is chaos out of the
current Administration with their blatant disregard for due
process and their indiscriminate immigration executive orders.
In fact, the Trump Administration's Department of Homeland
Security had to take down its posted sanctuary jurisdictions
list because it created mass confusion in Minnesota for local
officials and was opposed by local law enforcement. And so,
Governor Walz, let me just start. Just so we know the record is
correct, I did not think Minnesota was a sanctuary state. Is
Minnesota a sanctuary state, Governor?
Governor Walz. We are not. The legislature has passed no
such law, and I have signed no such law, and we follow all
Federal law.
Ms. Craig. Thank you, sir. That list included 20 counties
when it came out across Minnesota without any rhyme or reason,
including Le Sueur County, which I represent. I have inquired
into why they are listed from DHS but still absolutely no
answers. Governor Walz, I thought it might be helpful to point
out that according to the FBI's own 2023 data, Minnesota has
fewer violent incidents per 100,000 than states such as
Tennessee, Louisiana, Missouri, Texas, Alabama, Georgia--I am
going to repeat that again, Georgia--and Ohio. Why do you think
that our state has been able to maintain a lower crime rate
than other states?
Governor Walz. Well, thank you, Congresswoman, and we are
at a 30-year low on serious crimes, and as you said, we
consistently rank below, and I think that is because we invest,
as we have, historic investments in law enforcement, but law
enforcement works with the community. There is a process in
place. We know who they are. They work hand in hand. We make
sure that those laws are followed. And we also have policies
where we show compassion to our neighbors, and it is not chaos,
as you said. It is done right. I am grateful, grateful for the
law enforcement who does that work, but I am also grateful to
the legislature and my administration who have put in historic
amounts of help to make sure they are able to deliver those
services, and they are the ones that are best trained to do it.
And the case that you brought up of listing these, in
Minnesota, counties can go above the Federal floor. If they
want to issue detainers, they certainly can. Many of those
counties that were listed on there would fit the definition of
everyone on this side of the aisle is asking for, and they are
doing that. Nothing prohibits them in Minnesota from doing
that, and yet they ended up on the list, it caused great chaos,
and law enforcement themselves, and as you heard earlier, the
Sheriff's Association issuing that it cannot be done this way.
Ms. Craig. Thank you, Governor. Earlier today I spoke with
the Minnesota Chamber of Commerce, and I think all of us here
share the goals of lowering costs for our constituents and
growing the economy. According to a Minnesota Chamber
Foundation report from this February, Minnesota's immigrant
labor force participation rate was over 74 percent, well above
the national average, and they fill important jobs in our
agriculture, healthcare, and manufacturing sectors. Governor
Walz, how can we ensure Minnesota remains a state to attract
the talent we need and a strong economy?
Governor Walz. We invest in our people. We make sure we
remain the number one healthcare state. We make sure that
people are safe in their communities. We talk about focusing on
the work, that the state patrol keeps our roads safe--safest
top three state for the lowest number of traffic accidents.
That is what they should be focusing on. Investing, as the
chamber is focusing on, Minnesota is number four in Fortune 500
per capita, and we are ranked sixth best state for business,
continue to have a well-educated, a healthy, safe, and make
sure we are investing in those opportunities for people. That
is all we are asking, and we are asking that the Federal
Government do their job.
You continue to ask states to do ICE's job. They are free
to do their job in Minnesota, but they are asking us to do the
job when we are doing everything we can to help, but we have
all of the other responsibilities of educating, of public
safety, of roads, of transportation, of water infrastructure.
And that is why Minnesota remains a top state because we invest
in our people, we invest in their growth, we invest in their
families.
Ms. Craig. Thank you, Governor. I appreciate this, and, And
Mr. Lynch, I will yield last 20 seconds to you if you have got
that.
Mr. Lynch. Thank you. I am happy to take that. Thank you
very much, Representative. For this 12 seconds, I just want to
read. This is from the Minnesota Reformer from February 12,
2025. ``The sanctuary bill that was offered in the Minnesota
legislature is already dead as House speaker says it does not
have the votes.'' So, this was an attempt to actually make
Minnesota a sanctuary state, and it, like the speaker said, did
not have the votes and died very early in the process.
Governor Walz. And we got to the business of balancing our
budget and investing in all of the other things we needed to
do.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady's time has expired. The
Chair recognizes Mrs. Miller from Illinois.
Mrs. Miller. Thank you, Chairman. Governor Pritzker,
Illinois is at a crisis point. Illegal aliens in our state have
overwhelmed local communities and schools, causing untold pain
and suffering, while costing the Illinois taxpayers billions.
Governor, in a recent report by Capital News of Illinois, you
called for mass protests, for mobilization, for disruption.
Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to submit the Capital
News of Illinois report titled, ``Trump's 100 Days: Pritzker
calls for mass mobilization as he grows his national profile.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mrs. Miller. Governor, before we go any further, will you
commit today to working with the Trump Administration and ICE
to ensure that the violence we have seen in Los Angeles does
not occur in Chicago or anywhere else in our state? Yes or no.
Governor Pritzker. Thank you, Congressman Miller. We work
every day with the Federal Government----
Mrs. Miller. Yes or no, sir.
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. To keep our streets safe.
Mrs. Miller. Will you commit to working with the Trump
Administration?
Governor Pritzker. We do, all the time, work with the
Federal Government, law enforcement constantly.
Mrs. Miller. Okay. I am taking that as yes. Governor, you
said earlier this afternoon that you were willing to ``stand in
the way of Tom Homan,'' who, I would like to note, is carrying
out Federal law. I have before me numerous examples of illegal
alien violence in Illinois, but I want to highlight the story
of Joe Abraham whose daughter was tragically murdered by an
illegal alien in Central Illinois under your watch, sir. I will
now read his account.
``Hello. My name is Joe Abraham. I am the father of three,
and Katie was my youngest. Katie had a beautiful soul, a sharp
wit, and a huge personality. She loved life, and she lived it
with authenticity, humor, and heart. She was a kind of person
who succeeded at anything she put her mind to. She had a future
full of promise. She was everything to our family.
``In the early hours of Sunday, January 19, Katie was
riding in a Honda Civic with four friends. They were stopped at
a red light when their car was struck from behind by a sports
utility vehicle (SUV) traveling 78 miles per hour. The driver
did not break. He did not swerve. He just slammed into them.
The driver had previously been deported and was in the country
illegally using an alias. He was allegedly intoxicated. After
the crash, he fled the scene on foot without calling 9-1-1,
without offering any help to the five women he had just hit.
Katie died at the scene. Another young woman passed away the
next day at the hospital. Instead of staying to face what he
had done, the driver fled Urbana, made his way to Chicago, and
then boarded a bus headed to Mexico. Thankfully, he was
captured before fleeing the country. We share Katie's story not
just to honor her memory, but to raise awareness and to seek
justice. No family should have to endure this type of loss.''
Sir, the family is here. The father is here. Would you like
to apologize to Katie's family? Feel free to direct your
comments to me.
Governor Pritzker. I am very sorry for their loss. I really
am.
Mrs. Miller. I can only imagine what other instances have
taken place but have not been reported. You have stated that
Illinois will not allow local police departments to assist ICE
as they work to address the illegal immigration crisis that you
helped to create. In light of the crimes that I have mentioned,
do you stand by your policy of tying the hands of Illinois law
enforcement? Yes or no, sir?
Governor Pritzker. You know, Congresswoman Miller, I am not
going to be lectured----
Mrs. Miller. Yes or no, sir.
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. To by somebody----
Mrs. Miller. I am reclaiming my time.
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. Who extols the virtue of
Adolf Hitler.
Mrs. Miller. I am reclaiming my time, Mr. Chairman.
Governor Pritzker. Of somebody who has allowed the
pardoning----
Mrs. Miller. In 2024, after----
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. Of January 6.
Mrs. Miller. I am reclaiming my time. In 2024 after the
Presidential election, you stated on MSNBC that, ``I am going
to do everything that I can to protect our undocumented
immigrants.''
Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to submit a Fox News
report into the record titled, ``Dem Governor JB Pritzker vows
to do everything I can to protect our undocumented
immigrants.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mrs. Miller. These policies are not only deadly----
Governor Pritzker. Congresswoman, I was talking about the
people who have lived in our state for decades now.
Mrs. Miller. These policies are not only deadly, but they
have cost Illinois taxpayers billions, to the tune of $3
billion since 2022. Governor, your state budget does not
balance without massive yearly tax increases. This year, you
hiked taxes by $800 million. Your budgets fund the services of
illegal aliens----
Governor Pritzker. That is inaccurate, Congresswoman.
Mrs. Miller [continuing]. While Americans are left behind--
--
Governor Pritzker. Again, inaccurate.
Mrs. Miller [continuing]. Being forced to flee our state.
Governor Pritzker. Nearly everything is mischaracterized in
your statement.
Mrs. Miller. Governor, I judge you based on your actions,
not on your words, and from what I can tell, you are doing
everything in your power to roll out the red carpet for illegal
aliens to protect them all at the expense of working people of
Illinois. Your policies have been disastrous for our state and
they would be disastrous for our country, and with that, I
yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady----
Governor Pritzker. Your failures are a disaster for this
country.
Chairman Comer [continuing]. Yields back. The gentlelady
yields back. The Chair recognizes Mr. Subramanyam.
Mr. Subramanyam. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I first want to say
that what happened this afternoon, this afternoon's manhandling
of Senator Alex Padilla after he sought to speak at a public
press conference, was wrong and should be condemned by both
parties, by every Member in this chamber. But it follows a
pattern and this Administration of weaponizing law enforcement
and using excessive force to attack peaceful protests and
political opponents, and it is terrible. We are talking about
what is going on in ``sanctuary states.'' I live in Virginia,
and we are not a sanctuary state, but what is happening is that
our sheriff's office has made a decision to participate in the
287(g) program and, basically, working with ICE to show up in
schools, show up in businesses, and try to, basically, attack
kids, right, detain kids, and this is wrong. And this is not
what our country is about, and so I do not want us to be
supporting these types of actions.
Yesterday in Sterling, Virginia, we had masked men show up
to a courthouse and detain people and arrest people, and a lot
of this is peaceful. And this, again, follows this pattern of
weaponizing law enforcement and weaponizing the DOJ and other
places to attack political opponents, attack peaceful protests,
and to go around trying to make a political point because I
think that is what this is really about. This is about
politics, and this is about using law enforcement to show
strength, but that is not strength. That is not strength.
And so, the other thing about this is none of this is
making our communities safer, and none of this is good for our
country. And so, I want to ask, Governor Walz, do these raids
and do these actions and this use of law enforcement, is it
making the folks in Minnesota safer?
Governor Walz. Well, thank you, Congressman. In my opinion,
no. It is causing chaos and fear amongst folks, and
characterizing folks who are waiting on asylum flames who are
trying to become naturalized, it causes chaos. And the other
thing it does, it causes local law enforcement, they lose trust
in the community. It puts them at risk, and the lack of
coordination that we hear that no calls are coming in, we
always coordinate.
Mr. Subramanyam. Exactly.
Governor Walz. And in the past, Democratic and Republican
administrations have coordinated with us. We are not seeing it.
It is creating chaos and fear, and, yes, get these stories of
these violent criminals. We hold them, we call DHS, but those
violent criminals are not at a preschool. That is what we have
to get right. Go after why you are doing this. Get us a
bipartisan bill that makes sure that folks can process and be
documented, and let us make this country prosperous and
continue to have a country.
Mr. Subramanyam. Exactly. That is a great point because if
we really want to solve immigration, why don't we do a
bipartisan immigration reform bill? We can strengthen our
border. We can find a path for those who have been here for a
long time. We can actually solve this problem in Congress, but
instead we are going around with masked men, intimidating
people, throwing U.S. senators to the ground, and not solving
any problem. And Governor Pritzker, I have talked to a lot of
businesses in my community who are really concerned about what
is going on, and this is not good for our economy either. And
so, I would ask you, Governor Pritzker, what do you feel? Is
this good for your state? Is this making folks in your state
safer or well off or better off?
Governor Pritzker. Congressman, thank you, and, no, this is
making us worse off. It is actually harming public safety. It
is frightening our communities, and, frankly, if you are one of
the people, the U.S. citizens, that are getting taken off the
streets or people who are here in this country legally taken
off the streets, imagine what effect that has on the rest of
the population.
And in my state, we reject that. The values of the people
of the State of Illinois reject that, and I just want to say,
because Congresswoman Miller would not allow me to, I just want
to say, very importantly, that anyone who is condoning the $400
million airplane going to the President of the United States
from the Qataris, who would spy on us in an instant if they
were able to do this, anybody who is condoning the President of
the United States accepting the Chinese Communist Party money
to his family through his meme coin, I mean, that is
corruption, and yet that is what Congresswoman Miller is
condoning. She is the one who thinks it is okay to pardon
people who attack police right here at the Capitol. Thank you
for giving me that moment.
I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired. The Chair
recognizes Mrs. Fischbach from Minnesota.
Mrs. Fischbach. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and I just
want to say thank you so much for allowing me the opportunity
to be waived on today, Mr. Chair. And I will just say that
Oversight is far livelier than Ways and Means.
[Laughter.]
Mrs. Fischbach. And Governor Walz, I want to say I thank
you for being here because I know you have been very, very busy
running around the country giving speeches and having town
halls in Republican districts.
Governor Walz. And passing balanced budgets.
Mrs. Fischbach. Yes, well, you were running around, though,
I know while they were trying to negotiate that.
Governor Walz. I am a multitasker.
Mrs. Fischbach. It is my time, Governor Walz. This is my
time. But there has been a lot of discussion and questions
about policies that provide benefits for illegal aliens, and I
understand, Governor, that you are going to say Minnesota is
not a sanctuary state per se because the legislation was not
passed, and just a yes or no question. Ranking Member Lynch had
mentioned that there was a bill that was introduced for a
sanctuary state this year in the Minnesota legislature. Would
you have signed that bill? Did you support that bill?
Governor Walz. Oh, thousands of bills are introduced.
Hypothetical. We do not have it. I operate under the same law
you operated under----
Mrs. Fischbach. Okay. Thank you, Governor Walz.
Governor Walz. Under the lieutenant governor.
Mrs. Fischbach. But Governor Walz, we all know that you
probably had some opinion on that bill. You are just choosing
not to answer because the answer was probably, yes, you would
have signed that bill if it had passed. But like Mr. Emmer, Mr.
Crane, I think Mr. McGuire, a whole bunch of them mentioned the
policies that Minnesota has. So, yes, I understand, not a
sanctuary state per se. I think, as I recall, they mentioned
driver's license for all. They mentioned the free tuition for
illegal immigrants. They mentioned the Medicaid benefits. So,
you, in essence, create a sanctuary state, you know, not
formally.
Governor Walz. You know the sheriffs supported the driver's
license bill, the hospitals, and others----
Mrs. Fischbach. Governor Walz, I am certainly aware of
that. I served many years in legislature, and I have many
friends there. I understand that, but, in essence, they are
creating a sanctuary state in practice. And so, we are going to
talk a little bit about the legislature because just earlier
this week, both chambers of the Minnesota legislature passed
H.F. 1, and you are probably familiar with it. I do not know if
you have signed it yet or not, but it repeals Minnesota care
eligibility for illegal immigrants adults, ages 18 and older.
And with that recent repeal of eligibility for illegal
immigrants, a policy that, initially, I mean, it was after my
time, was enacted, in your time, 2023 under your
administration, now being reversed with those budget
negotiations, I was just wondering, first of all, do you know
how many illegal immigrants were covered and are currently
covered in Minnesota with Medicaid?
Governor Walz. I do not have the exact number. It is not
Medicaid. It is state that does this through MinnesotaCare,
different program.
Mrs. Fischbach. Okay. Well, but you still do not know how
many?
Governor Walz. I do not have----
Mrs. Fischbach. So, all of those negotiations you were
deeply involved in earlier that you mentioned you were deeply
involved in, that number never came up?
Governor Walz. I do not have it in front of me right now.
Mrs. Fischbach. Okay.
Governor Walz. So, we can certainly get it to you.
Mrs. Fischbach. I would love it. I would love to have that.
I mean, I understand. Did you support that provision
removing the illegal immigrants?
Governor Walz. I will sign it into law.
Mrs. Fischbach. No. No, did you support it during the
negotiations?
Governor Walz. Did I support it? I am going to sign the
bill.
Mrs. Fischbach. But there are negotiations, so I guess what
I am hearing, though, is you did not support it.
Governor Walz. We are very good at it. That is why we have
a balanced budget.
Mrs. Fischbach. You did not support----
Governor Walz. That is why I negotiated with the
Republicans. Do I think it makes sense? Look, you know,
Congresswoman, that Federal law requires us to provide
healthcare to people when they show up in emergency rooms. That
is why the hospitals have uncompensated care.
Mrs. Fischbach. Reclaiming my time because you are trying
to change the subject because I asked you very specifically,
during negotiations, did you support the provision to eliminate
illegal immigrants from healthcare?
Governor Walz. It is a question that makes no sense.
Mrs. Fischbach. All right. All right.
Governor Walz. I support it at the end of the day in a
negotiation, which I agreed to sign it.
Mrs. Fischbach. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Governor.
I mean, you were in Congress. You understand what reclaiming
your time means. Yes, you understand that, but I guess I will
move on because there was concerns about SNAP provisions being
cut, but you supported that. I mean, you supported that over
the healthcare to illegal immigrants. I guess I am confused
about because you had other cuts you had to make, so all of the
things that you guys have been talking about with law
enforcement, education, school breakfast and lunch, did you cut
that during the budget negotiations this year because my
understanding is you had quite a deficit.
Governor Walz. We do not. We have a budget surplus, as you
know, Congresswoman.
Mrs. Fischbach. Well, long term, but you had to make cuts
this year.
Governor Walz. We had a balanced budget. It is something we
can help you all with. We have a balanced budget we agreed on.
We left $1.9 billion on the bottom line for this biennium, and
even----
Mrs. Fischbach. But your structural budget----
Governor Walz. The structural balance----
Mrs. Fischbach [continuing]. Had to be cut.
Governor Walz. [continuing]. Was reduced by 50 percent.
Mrs. Fischbach. You had to make cuts or, no, you did not
make any cuts?
Governor Walz. We balanced a budget. We moved and we
invested. It is what we do.
Mrs. Fischbach. All right, Governor, I am going to move on
because I have one more thing, and I am running out of time
because I really do want to talk about, you had mentioned
civility or someone had mentioned civility. There was a
discussion earlier about civility, but Mr. Fallon had mentioned
how you had said you want to kick Republican ass. You have
mentioned bullying. There is another one where you are going to
bully the S-H-I-T out of President Trump. There are all kinds
of things, and then you had a discussion about civility. And I
am embarrassed because you say you are an educator, and you are
the governor of my state that I am supposed to be proud of, and
this is the kind of garbage, the example you are setting for
our children that you are telling people to bully each other.
And I try very hard not to say those kinds of things because I
understand that it is meaningful when you hold the position
like this. You should not be saying things like that.
Governor Walz. But you support the President's language,
Congresswoman?
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady's time has expired.
Mrs. Fischbach. The President is not in front of me right
now, Governor.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady's time has expired.
[Cross talking.]
Governor Walz. And he should be.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes the Ranking Member for
a unanimous consent.
Mr. Lynch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have here a statement
from the distinguished representative, Betty McCollum, from
Minnesota, that notes that Minnesota's crime is declining, 30-
year low. Companies hiring. It is one of the best places to
raise a family in America, and it is not a sanctuary state.
Without objection, so ordered.
The Chair recognizes Mr. Lawler from New York.
Mr. Lawler. Governor Hochul, under your watch, New York has
spent billions of dollars of taxpayer money providing free
housing, clothing, food, education, and healthcare to illegal
immigrants. Meanwhile, you are charging hardworking New Yorkers
$2,500 annually just for the privilege of driving to work.
Speaking of driving, when you ran for Congress, did you oppose
giving driver's licenses to illegals? Yes or no.
Governor Hochul. No, that was previous to that. It was in
2020.
Mr. Lawler. You had a commercial running for Congress
touting your position about driver's licenses.
Governor Hochul. No, but the position goes back earlier
than that, is my point.
Mr. Lawler. Did you oppose giving driver's licenses to
illegals when you were running for Congress? Yes or no.
Governor Hochul. At the time I did, and I will tell you
why.
Mr. Lawler. Governor, it is yes or no.
Governor Hochul. I had a chance to go out and see a very
rural district----
Mr. Lawler. Reclaiming my time.
Governor Hochul. [continuing]. Where mothers were being
denied the chance to drive to the doctor's office.
Mr. Lawler. Governor, yes or no, do you support illegal
immigrants getting taxpayer-funded healthcare?
Governor Hochul. People were being denied the chance to
their jobs.
Chairman Comer. Governor, please answer the question.
Governor Hochul. I am not sure there will ever be a real
question.
Mr. Lawler. You were asked a question, and you chose to try
to deflect.
Governor Hochul. I gave an answer.
Mr. Lawler. The fact is you did support giving illegals
driver's licenses----
Governor Hochul. Those are----
Mr. Lawler. [continuing]. Or oppose giving illegals
driver's licenses, now you support it. Governor, yes or no, do
you support illegal immigrants getting-taxpayer funded
healthcare? Yes or no.
Governor Hochul. We provide healthcare to people in need,
including moms with new babies.
Mr. Lawler. Do you support giving illegal immigrants
taxpayer-funded healthcare? Yes or no.
Governor Hochul. We support giving support for healthcare.
Mr. Lawler. The answer is yes. You expanded healthcare
access in 2024 under Medicaid.
Governor Hochul. Yes, I did, for senior citizens and moms
with new babies.
Mr. Lawler. Governor, after the election, you said----
Governor Hochul. I would do it all over again.
Mr. Lawler. Reclaiming my time. Governor, after the
election you said, ``Someone breaks the law. I will be the
first one to call up ICE and say get them out of here.''
Governor, yes or no, have you personally called up ICE and
asked them to get anyone out of New York?
Governor Hochul. As the Governor of New York, I have an
entire state police force that carries out my directions.
Mr. Lawler. Have you personally called anyone up and asked
ICE to get anyone out of New York? Yes or no.
Governor Hochul. My state police acts as agency and my
surrogate.
Mr. Lawler. You have not, correct?
Governor Hochul. When I say ``me,'' I am referring to my
entities such as the state police that handle that.
Mr. Lawler. Oh, you are like Governor Cuomo, I am the
government? Is that your position?
Governor Hochul. That is your characterization, not mine.
Mr. Lawler. Yes or no, should ICE have been called on
Sebastian Zapeta-Calil?
Governor Hochul. Can you refresh me as to the circumstances
of the case?
Mr. Lawler. He is the individual who burned the woman alive
on the train.
Governor Hochul. Of course they should.
Mr. Lawler. Could ICE have been called on him?
Governor Hochul. NYPD was handling that situation.
Mr. Lawler. Should ICE have been called? That is my
question. Yes or no.
Governor Hochul. If there was an arrest made, he should
have been deported after conviction, yes.
Mr. Lawler. Okay. So, Governor, when you were sworn in in
2021, you signed an executive order keeping many of Governor
Cuomo's executive orders in place, including EO 170.
Interestingly enough, you did not include EO 170.1. Are you
familiar with EO 170.1?
Governor Hochul. I do not have it in front of me. I have
thousands of executive orders.
Mr. Lawler. I have it right here, Governor.
Governor Hochul. I am sure you do.
Mr. Lawler. And what you did, you waited several years
until this year, January 16 of this year, in which you finally
signed it and reinstated it into law. Why did you wait until
just four days before Donald Trump was sworn in as President to
sign EO 170.1 into law? And to refresh your memory, it
basically mandates that Federal immigration authorities cannot
enforce civil arrests in New York State buildings. Why did you
wait several years to reinstate that?
Governor Hochul. Because we had a high level of confidence
that under the previous Administration, that people going into
the courthouses, whether they are victims of crimes, witnesses
of crimes, would have their rights protected. I had no
assurance that that would happen.
Mr. Lawler. In other words, you believed they would not
enforce Federal immigration law, and you were concerned that
President Trump and his Administration would enforce Federal
immigration law?
Governor Hochul. We thought it was important for victims of
crimes and witnesses to murders, for example, that they have
access to courts without being threatened or intimidated.
Mr. Lawler. Yes. Speaking of crime, more than 3,200 illegal
immigrants have been arrested in New York City for committing
crimes while living in taxpayer-funded housing under your
watch, Governor. Governor, are you aware of any law or
executive order that would prevent a citizen of New York, a
citizen of the United States from facing criminal or civil
enforcement in a state building?
Governor Hochul. I am not aware.
Mr. Lawler. So, you think that citizens should be treated
less than and have less protections than illegal immigrants.
Governor Hochul. No, we report.
Mr. Lawler. Is that what you are saying?
Governor Hochul. Our state laws say we cooperate in all
criminal cases. I have made that very clear over the last seven
hours.
Mr. Lawler. Yes, but you are not doing that. That is the
reality. Governor, do you support the New York for All Act?
Governor Hochul. The truth is we do not help them with
civil enforcement because civil enforcement----
Mr. Lawler. Governor, reclaiming my time.
Governor Hochul. Go for it.
Mr. Lawler. Do you support the New York for All Act?
Governor Hochul. I am not speaking about hypothetical
bills.
Mr. Lawler. No. Governor, Governor, this is not a
hypothetical. There was a sit-in in the state legislature today
by activists blocking state senators from coming into the
chamber. Do you support the New York for All Act? It is ``yes''
or ``no.''
Governor Hochul. I will tell you this. I get about a
thousand bills put on my desk----
Mr. Lawler. Do you support the New York for All Act?
Governor Hochul. [continuing]. Probably by midnight
tonight, which this is keeping me from doing the work of the
people back home, but I can sit here as long as you like.
Mr. Lawler. Governor, you have you done a terrible job as
Governor. It is not keeping you from anything. Frankly, New
York is better off with you down here and not in the state. The
fact is----
Governor Hochul. I do not think we are better off with you
here.
Mr. Lawler. The fact is, Governor, you will support the New
York for All Act. You will sign it into law if it passes the
state legislature.
Governor Hochul. I have no confidence it is going to pass.
Mr. Lawler. You have no confidence it will pass.
Governor Hochul. I do not know.
Mr. Lawler. If it does pass, will you sign it?
Governor Hochul. I am not able to keep an eye on it. They
are voting on it now.
Mr. Lawler. Will you sign it into law if it passes?
Governor Hochul. I have about a thousand bills that gets
passed every year.
Mr. Lawler. Will you sign the New York for All Act into law
if it passes? Yes or no.
Governor Hochul. You will have wait and see like every
other bill.
Mr. Lawler. We have to wait and see?
Governor Hochul. Yes, because I have----
Mr. Lawler. Governor, you cannot take a position on the New
York for All Act. It would put into state statute that New York
is a sanctuary state. That is why you are here. That is the
exact reason why you are sitting in front of us testifying
because of your disastrous EOs, your disastrous pro-criminal
policies that have resulted in the death of New Yorkers.
Mr. Lynch. Chairman?
Mr. Lawler. That is your failure, and the fact is that you
cannot even answer the question. Will you support the New York
for All Act? Yes or no.
Governor Hochul. No, the reason I am sitting here is
because Republicans want----
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired.
Governor Hochul. [continuing]. To deflect from their big,
bad, ugly bill that is going to hurt people.
Mr. Lawler. Governor, Governor, will you support the New
York for All Act?
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired. Governor,
are you going to answer his question? Will you sign the bill?
Governor Hochul. I do not know what he is asking me. I do
not----
Chairman Comer. He asked if you are going to sign the bill.
Governor Hochul. Ask any anybody in the State of York. I
never say how I am going to vote on, decide on a bill until it
is lands on my desk. Thousands----
Mr. Lawler. You are the governor of the state. You are
supposed to be----
Governor Hochul. I am well aware, well aware I am the
Governor of the State of New York.
Mr. Lawler. You want New York to be a sanctuary state, and
it is shameful.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Lawler. It is shameful. You cannot even answer the
question?
Governor Hochul. When it lands on my desk, I will do the
proper evaluation.
Mr. Lynch. Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Lawler. And do what?
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes----
Governor Hochul. That is what we do.
Mr. Lawler. You will do what?
Governor Hochul. That is how you become a Governor.
Mr. Lawler. You will sign into law, and that is exactly
what you will do. You will sign into law.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes the Ranking Member.
Mr. Lynch. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I have a number of
unanimous consent requests, one from the National Immigration
Center.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Lynch. National Immigrant Justice Center, and the
Alliance for Immigrants.
Chairman Comer. Without objection. So ordered.
Mr. Lynch. They speak for themselves.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Stauber from
Minnesota.
Mr. Stauber. Thank you very much. Governor Walz, thanks for
being here today. I am going to ask you a few questions and I
ask you to keep your remarks brief. I got a lot to go through.
As you know, I spent 23 years as a law enforcement officer in
the State of Minnesota. You know that right? Do you know that?
Yes or no. It is not a trick question. It is not a trick
question.
Governor Walz. Congressman, I do not know how many years.
Mr. Stauber. I will answer it for you: 23 years in Duluth.
Governor Walz. Thank you for that.
Mr. Stauber. So, Governor, do you recognize this picture?
Governor Walz. I do recognize the picture.
Mr. Stauber. Briefly describe it to us. What is it? What is
going on?
Governor Walz. I believe the people in the picture now are
incarcerated in Minnesota to the best of my----
Mr. Stauber. It is a precinct burning down because of your
decision. Was this a peaceful protest? Was this a peaceful
protest?
Governor Walz. The gentleman standing there? That was----
Mr. Stauber. Was this a peaceful protest?
Governor Walz. It was a criminal act that people were
prosecuted for.
Mr. Stauber. So, it was not a peaceful protest, right? As I
watched lawlessness devastate Los Angeles this past week, I was
reminded of your failure to protect Minnesota from similar
riots. Governor Walz on May 29 of 2020, during your own press
conference, you described your response to the riots during the
2020 Summer of Love as ``an abject failure.'' Governor, I could
not agree with you more.
Governor Walz. That is out of context, Congressman, and you
know it.
Mr. Stauber. And on May 17, 2025, you were at the Minnesota
Law School talking to the graduates, and we have talked about
this. You called the enforcement of illegal immigrants a
modern-day Gestapo. You have been asked three, four times if
you would rescind that, and you will not? Will you rescind it?
This is, like, the fifth time. Yes or no.
Governor Walz. Congressman, I was talking to law students
about due process, and I said every----
Mr. Stauber. So, you will not rescind it.
Governor Walz. You took an oath to due process.
Mr. Stauber. Governor, was there a violent Al-Shabaab
terrorist who entered our country illegally arrested in
Minneapolis last year? Yes, there was. Were there three child
predators arrested by ICE in St. Paul earlier this year?
Governor Walz. I certainly hope so. That is their job.
Mr. Stauber. Yes, there was. Are the officers who arrested
the Al-Shabaab terrorists or the child predators. Are they
Nazis or the Gestapo?
Governor Walz. The tactics of wearing masks----
Mr. Stauber. They are not.
Governor Walz. The tactics of wearing masks----
Mr. Stauber. Why did you----
Governor Walz. [continuing]. Unidentified, due process----
Mr. Stauber. Why did tell us that they were the Gestapo? Do
you believe that any of the violent illegal immigrants I have
mentioned have a right to be in this country?
Governor Walz. I do not know what their immigration status
was.
Mr. Stauber. They are illegal, violent criminals that the
ICE took off the streets of Minneapolis. Last week----
Mr. Stauber. You did not say, Congressman what their status
was.
Mr. Stauber. Governor, last week, law enforcement officers
in the State of Minnesota took 900 pounds of meth off the
streets. Do you support that?
Governor Walz. We certainly do. Fentanyl----
Mr. Stauber. Do you know that ICE assisted in those arrests
and investigations? Do you support the assistance of ICE in
that enforcement action? Yes or no.
Governor Walz. I cannot speak to that because we were not
included in the briefing.
Mr. Stauber. You do not know if ICE was part of it? I am
telling you they were.
Governor Walz. I do not have that data. I would have to
trust you.
Mr. Stauber. Will you apologize to our constituents and law
enforcement officers for making them and their families less
safe with your incendiary actions?
Governor Walz. I will congratulate them that they helped us
work on the largest pension bill for----
Mr. Stauber. Governor.
Governor Walz. [continuing]. Minnesota law enforcement----
Mr. Stauber. Governor.
Governor Walz. [continuing]. In 30 years.
Mr. Stauber. Claiming my time, Governor, what weapons did
you carry in war?
Governor Walz. Congressman, for 24 years, I carried----
Mr. Stauber. No, no, no. What weapons did you carry in war?
Governor Walz. What did you carry in war?
Mr. Stauber. I tell you what, Governor----
Governor Walz. You know I misspoke. You know I misspoke.
Mr. Stauber [continuing]. You are barking down the wrong
tree, okay?
Governor Walz. You know I misspoke.
Mr. Stauber. You lied to Minnesotans. You said that you
carried weapons in war.
Mr. Lynch. Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Stauber. That is stolen valor. You know what? My wife
served 24 years in the military.
Mr. Lynch. Yes, Mr. Chairman?
[Cross talking.]
Mr. Lynch. A little bit of respect for the witness.
Mr. Stauber. She is an Iraq war veteran.
Mr. Lynch. You know what I mean? This hectoring is not----
Mr. Stauber. She was over in the war zone.
Mr. Lynch. On a point of order.
Mr. Stauber. That is stolen valor.
Mr. Lynch. Point of order, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Stauber. And I am disgusted with you, and so are the
people that you served with.
Mr. Lynch. Point of order.
Chairman Comer. Point of order.
Mr. Stauber. That is stolen valor.
Chairman Comer. Halt just a minute. State your point.
Mr. Stauber. Stolen valor.
Mr. Lynch. Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Stauber. You did not carry weapons in war----
Mr. Lynch. That is not a question.
Governor Walz. Congressman, my 24 years was public----
[Cross talking.]
Mr. Stauber. Will you apologize for lying?
Mr. Lynch. Objection.
Mr. Stauber. Will you apologize for lying?
Mr. Lynch. Objection.
Chairman Comer. All right. Hold on. Pause.
Mr. Lynch. That is not questioning a witness. That is not
questioning a witness. You think so, huh?
Chairman Comer. Point of order. State your point, Mr.
Ranking Member.
Mr. Lynch. No, no, you are yelling at him, and you are
hectoring him.
Chairman Comer. State your point.
Mr. Lynch. You are hectoring. You are hectoring.
Chairman Comer. All right. State your point.
Mr. Stauber. Governor, you didn't carry weapons in war, did
you? You did not carry weapons in war, did you?
Chairman Comer. You got 24 seconds.
Governor Walz. Congressman, you know I misspoke.
Mr. Stauber. You did not carry weapons in war, yes or no?
You lied. Governor, what rank did you retire at?
Governor Walz. I served----
Mr. Stauber. What rank did you retire at?
Governor Walz. Congressman, I served my battalion as the
command sergeant major and----
Mr. Stauber. That is not the question I asked. What rank
did you retire at?
Governor Walz. I retired as a master sergeant, EA.
Mr. Stauber. Okay. Here is your coin that says retired at a
command sergeant major.
Governor Walz. It says I wore the rank.
Mr. Stauber. That is right. You did not retire, did you?
Governor Walz. I did retire, after 24 years.
Mr. Stauber. Stolen valor. Here is a picture of your coin,
your challenge coin. I am disgusted with you. Governor, you lie
when the truth is better.
Mr. Lynch. Mr. Chairman, the time has expired.
Governor Walz. Congressman, I am sorry----
Mr. Stauber. You lie when the truth is better.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's has expired.
Mr. Stauber. You called half Trump supporters Nazis and
fascists, and you know what? That is why the Minnesota Police
and Police Association did not support you in the last election
because you are missing in action.
Governor Walz. Well, I support them.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Stauber. On behalf of the folks from the Land of Rocks
and Cows, thank you, and I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Ms. Tenney from New
York.
Ms. Tenney. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for
allowing me to waive onto this Committee for this important
Oversight Committee hearing and happy to have the governors
here to hopefully answer some questions and just to address a
couple things that I have heard in this committee hearing. I
have not appeared on Oversight before. I do serve in a much
milder Ways and Means Committee, but I just want to say a
couple things about what we are doing today and about sanctuary
cities.
We are all children of immigrants. My grandparents met at
Ellis Island. They sat in quarantine. They came from other
countries. They came here to work. That is not what this is
about. This hearing is about people who have taken advantage of
our borders and our country, who have come in as illegal
cartels, who have overrun our Northern border, which is part of
my district in Upstate New York, in New York 24, and these
people have taken operational control of our Southern and our
Northern border. And we need our governors to make sure that
they are providing the law enforcement backup to our ICE agents
and others, and not assisting and aiding and abetting in such a
way to these illegal immigrants, particularly the cartels.
And I think one of the most important things, I am sick of
hearing everyone defaming my constituent actually, Tom Homan,
who is doing an excellent job and who served our country
honorably. His big concern, and I think it is a big concern for
me because when I served in the state legislature, Governor
Hochul was not there as either the lieutenant governor or the
governor, but I was one of the leaders on human trafficking.
And one of the important questions that Tom Homan talked about
repeatedly is where are the 300,000 children? Children who were
human-trafficked by people who are profiting off of these
human-trafficking, not just drug trafficking, human-
trafficking, innocent children all through our interior, we do
not know where they are.
Those are the people that I am concerned about, and what
ICE is trying to do is get to those people who are taking these
children and profiting off them and having no regard, and that
is what worries me the most is we have gotten off track on a
number of things. And what concerns me is we have this defund
and demoralize the police movement brought to a level where we
are defunding and demoralizing ICE agents who are simply doing
their job to protect our borders. And what concerns me is, and
I know, Governor Hochul, obviously I am going to address you
because you are my governor, people have addressed the billions
of dollars that New York State taxpayers, by the way, the
highest taxpayers in the entire Nation now. We are always in a
struggle with California who is more, who is less, and I think
we are winning out this race now. Not a good distinction by the
way. Not a good distinction to have a Northern border that is
overrun by people who are human-trafficking, bringing illicit
drugs into our communities.
I have had three parents in my community, my own home
community, where their sons died of overdoses because of
illegal fentanyl. So, these are real issues that are coming
from people that are coming across our borders. So, we know we
have spent billions of dollars on all kinds of illegal
immigrants in New York State. The estimate is, between New York
City and New York State, it is about $7 billion, and that is
New York taxpayer dollars. Those are my tax dollars, people,
constituents, I serve who go to work every day, and all we are
trying to do is keep these communities safe.
And you mentioned that, Governor Hochul, that you were
talking about keeping these communities safe, but I want to ask
you a question, and I have got a series of questions and some
of them have been asked by my colleagues. But I want to ask you
right now because you are the governor of our state, and you
have been presiding over a pretty disastrous situation with our
prisons. And many of those prisons, including one of the
maximum security prisons, is actually in my district and a
number of other facilities. Are there any criminal illegal gang
members in the New York State prison system right now? Just yes
if there are----
Governor Hochul. Congresswoman, I want----
Ms. Tenney [continuing]. And if you know how many, and if
you cannot get me the answer, can your staff provide us with
general information on that?
Governor Hochul. No, I will tell you this. I totally agree
with you, Congresswoman, that more needs to be done to protect
our border. We have asked for support from the Federal
Government for the border that you represent that I know so
well. I have had to deploy $8 million of my own state dollars
to amp up the enforcement.
Ms. Tenney. Well, there are our state dollars, but let me
just take this----
Governor Hochul. [continuing]. To help with human-
trafficking.
Ms. Tenney. Let me get to the prisons because I want to get
into another thing. Are there criminal illegal immigrant gang
members in the New York State prison system right now?
Governor Hochul. If there are, there will be----
Ms. Tenney. So, you do not know. Do you know if there are?
Governor Hochul. Of course there are. I am sure there are.
I have already said 1,300.
Ms. Tenney. That is all I wanted to know. Can you get me
the number?
Governor Hochul. I have already had ICE take 1,300 of
them----
Ms. Tenney. I am not asking you that.
Governor Hochul. But no doubt that there is some.
Ms. Tenney. I am asking you can we get the information
about whether they are Tren de Aragua, whether they are MS-13,
Crips, Bloods. I have toured the prisons. I have seen, you
know, people that they line up in rows. I want to know how many
of them are illegal immigrants that are putting not only other
inmates at risk, but also our prison guards who are at risk
because right now, these types of people are in our prison
system, are putting our corrections officers at risk. And by
you shutting down and cutting off the ability of our
corrections officers who are trained to deal with these kinds
of people there, we are losing the ability of having the
trained people there. And our National Guard are wonderful
people who serve our communities, but they are not trained to
be able to do this and many of them are underage in that. Can I
get the information from you on that?
Governor Hochul. Certainly. Again, I just want to reaffirm
that if there is someone convicted of a crime in our prison,
they will be deported. We let ICE know 30 days before the end
of their sentence, and that is why I have sent 1,300 people
already, just since I have been governor, out of our country. I
do not want them here anymore than you do, Congresswoman.
Ms. Tenney. Okay. Can I just ask you one last thing,
because you talked about you do not support a sanctuary city.
You were lieutenant governor when this was signed into law
under Governor Cuomo. We have the Green Light Law. The local
DMVs, it gives driver's licenses to illegal aliens, which you
once did not support, but now you do. You have admitted that
today. Under the Green Light Law, would you support repealing
the Green Light Law so that we can allow ICE agents to work
with our DMV to find out when these people drive across the
Canadian border and they have a carload full of innocent
children, and they cannot find any information on them because
they get a legal license? Can you just give me that
information?
Chairman Comer. Last question, but feel free to answer it,
Governor.
Governor Hochul. We absolutely share information on such
situations with ICE. That is our job.
Ms. Tenney. Do you support repealing the Green Light Law?
Chairman Comer. All right. The gentlelady's time has
expired. The Chair recognizes Mr. LaHood.
Mr. LaHood. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I appreciate your
indulgence for letting me waive on the Committee today. I know
it has been a long day. I want to welcome our governors here
today. Thank you.
Governor Pritzker, on behalf of my constituents and myself,
I have serious concerns about the current State of Illinois and
the continued direction your administration is taking when it
comes to sanctuary policies. And I know we have talked a lot
about that today, and I want to be clear: your sweeping
sanctuary policies are not just misguided, in my view, I think
they are dangerous. Your agenda puts ideology above public
safety, ties the hands of law enforcement, and signals to
violent criminal illegal immigrants that Illinois is a safe
haven.
Your administration has made the State of Illinois among
the national outliers to defy Federal law, and you have doubled
down on policies like Illinois Way Forward Act, which is
legislation you proposed and signed, that prohibits local law
enforcement from cooperating with ICE, even in cases involving
violent criminals. And I think, hearing you today, I think you
honestly believe that refusing to turn over convicted felons to
Federal authorities makes our communities safer, and I will
tell you, Governor, it does not. And as a former Federal and
state prosecutor who has worked very closely with law
enforcement, none of that makes us safer or makes law
enforcement feel comfortable.
Instead of working with Federal law enforcement to remove
dangerous individuals from our streets in Chicago and across
Illinois, you are creating bureaucratic roadblocks and
political cover. And in my view, that is not leadership, it is
government malpractice. Illinois families are already
struggling with the highest combined state and local tax burden
in the country, and they should not be forced to subsidize over
$2.5 billion in Illinois taxpayer money that is been spent on
illegal immigrants over the last four years under your
sanctuary policies in Illinois. I want to mention two specific
cases, although I could talk about a lot more.
A tragic case involving the family of George Levin, a 63-
year-old man who was murdered by a pair of illegal immigrants
who were arrested in Chicago in January. He was found bound
with duct tape and his legs tied with an extension cord. The
title of an article was, ``Two migrant men beat Chicago
businessman to death, left him bound, gagged, prosecutors
say,'' dated February 1, 2025, again, under your sanctuary
policies in the State of Illinois. I would like to submit that
for the record, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. LaHood. The second one is a case of two families, and I
want to highlight Chloe Polzin and, of course, Catherine
Abraham, two girls in their early 20's that were killed in a
fatal hit-and-run by an illegal immigrant in Urbana, Illinois.
And, again, the title from that article, ``Glenview family
seeks justice after migrant suspect kills daughter and friend
in Urban hit-and-run.'' I would like to submit that for the
record as well.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. LaHood. And so, Governor, I guess a question for you,
as you hear these stories, and there are many others, does it
cause you to rethink your sanctuary city policies or regret
some of the policies you have taken as it relates to sanctuary
cities?
Governor Pritzker. Thank you, Congressman. I am glad to see
you here. I know you were unwilling to meet with your
constituents about the Medicaid cuts that you voted for.
Mr. LaHood. So, answer the question. I thought you might
not answer the question.
Governor Pritzker. I am answering your question.
Mr. LaHood. I am going to reclaim my time because you did
not answer the question, which I thought you would. When I
asked, when you hear about victims that suffer violence because
of illegal migrants in a sanctuary city state, you said, no, it
has not caused you rethink.
Governor Pritzker. These are heinous crimes.
Mr. LaHood. Reclaiming my time. Now, Governor Pritzker, you
mentioned----
Governor Pritzker. That is not what I said. These are
heinous crimes. A judicial warrant is all the Federal
Government----
Mr. LaHood. Reclaiming my time. I have the time. I have the
time. Earlier, you----
Governor Pritzker. You all have the ability to fix this.
Mr. LaHood. Governor Pritzker, earlier----
Governor Pritzker. Do your job. Do your job, Congressman.
Mr. LaHood. Yes, I would deflect, too, instead of answering
those questions. Now, you said earlier in a response to a
question from Chairman Comer that you have been critical and
had been critical of President Biden and his border policies,
and you cited a letter October 2, 2023, that you authored. So,
I pulled the letter, and I was looking for this criticism of
the Biden border policy. Three pages, nothing in there. Now, I
am going to submit for the record so everybody can see it,
October 2, 2023, letter from JB Pritzker to President Biden.
Not one mention of being critical of the border.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. LaHood. Thank you.
Now, I want to----
Governor Pritzker. Public statements on national programs
about this.
Mr. LaHood. Again, it is not your time. Governor Pritzker,
it was mentioned earlier all these rosy statistics about
Illinois, but I want to mention a couple that were not
mentioned. Illinois is the leader in outmigration of people
leaving the State of Illinois. We have led for the last four
years, five years. People to leave the State of Illinois. We
lost a congressional seat, as you are well aware. We have the
lowest population in the city of Chicago now than in 100 years.
People continue to flee Illinois. We have the fifth highest
unemployment rate in the country, the second highest property
tax rate in the country, the fifth highest illegal immigration
population in the country with over 500,000 illegal immigrants
leaving in Illinois.
None of that got mentioned before, but that is the reality.
And to be honest with you, Governor Pritzker, I wish you did
not have to be here today as my governor, I really do, but
unfortunately, because of your failed policies, you have
spotlighted Illinois, and that truly is unfortunate, and I
yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back.
Governor Pritzker. Congressman, half of that is completely
false and needs to be corrected, and I will if given the moment
to speak.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes----
Governor Pritzker. Our population is increasing. We have a
higher population as a result of the----
Mr. Lynch. The gentleman----
Governor Pritzker. [continuing]. Census that was in 2020.
It was your Republican governor, and you served in the
legislature.
Chairman Comer. Governor, you will have time to answer
that.
[Cross talking.]
Governor Pritzker. You were part of those policies. We are
turning the ship around.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Jack.
Mr. Jack. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and as the
questioner today, Mr. Walz, I think you are not going to need
any more diet Mountain Dew after this. Just one thing just to
kind of bring this entire hearing back into the perspective,
just to help us understand and this Committee understand the
policies of your administrations. We will start with you
Governor Walz. Do you accept U.S. code which establishes that
improper entry into our country is illegal and enforceable by
the Federal Government?
Governor Walz. Improper entry meaning not asking for
asylum?
Mr. Jack. Illegally crossing is an illegal act and,
therefore, a criminal act.
Governor Walz. Civil in some cases, criminal as the
government does it, yes.
Mr. Jack. Thank you. Governor Pritzker.
Governor Pritzker. I am sorry. Can you repeat the question?
Mr. Jack. Sure, no question. So, just establishing that
your administration respects that U.S. code affirms and your
administration believes that improper entry into our country is
an illegal act and, therefore, criminal.
Governor Pritzker. As the Federal code says, we believe it,
yes, and we follow it.
Mr. Jack. Thank you, Governor, and Governor Hochul.
Governor Hochul. It depends how the Federal immigration
authorities enforce it. Sometimes it is civil. Sometimes they
do it on a criminal side. It is up to them to make that
determination.
Mr. Jack. Thank you. One of the reasons why we just want to
establish that is with respect to illegal immigration. I mean,
you are elected in your states, but your states' policies
affect my state in Georgia, affect my constituents in Georgia
because when you create policies that incentivize illegal
immigration, incentivize folks crossing illegally and being
criminals into our country, it presents challenges to us, and
it presents challenges to our ability to protect our
constituents, in my district.
Every single person on this panel, Republican and Democrat,
has a story, a painful story about an illegal immigrant or many
illegal immigrants have taken lives of those within our
districts. In fact, in my district alone, in Columbus, Georgia,
Dr. Malcolm Goodchild was killed by a drunk driver illegally
here in our country. Of course, we talked about Laken Riley. My
colleagues have done that ad nauseum. So, we also talk about
the financial burden that is associated with those of us that
represent folks in Georgia and your states as well. In Georgia
alone, I just want the record to note, that $563 has been
associated with the increased costs and increased burdens of my
constituents because of illegal immigrants within our state.
In our closing time, Governor Pritzker, we had Mayor
Brandon Johnson testify before us, and I know you have at times
expressed concerns about how he has run his administration in
Chicago. I am just curious if you support--one of the things we
talked about in this Committee, perhaps you prepared for, was a
directive that he sent to Chicago police directing them not to
cooperate with Federal law enforcement enforcing immigration
operations. Do you support that action from Mayor Johnson?
Governor Pritzker. I support actions that follow the law of
the State of Illinois and the Federal law.
Mr. Jack. Do you think Mayor Johnson has done a good job
with respect to law enforcement in his city?
Governor Pritzker. Law enforcement has improved markedly
since the choice of Larry Snelling as the superintendent of
police in the city of Chicago.
Mr. Jack. What grade would you give, A to F, Mayor Johnson
with respect to law enforcement in his city?
Governor Pritzker. I would not grade the mayor. I will say
that Larry Snelling is doing an excellent job as
superintendent.
Mr. Jack. Thank you. Governor Walz, I think you bring an
interesting perspective to this conversation because you were
just a candidate for national office on a ticket that lost.
Exit polls from 2024 show a clear bipartisan majority of
Americans trust President Trump to effectively handle
immigration. Recent polling of affirms Americans overwhelmingly
support President Trump's immigration policies by a 30-percent
margin. Even CBS published a survey that shows six out of ten
Americans say it is very important to deport illegal aliens,
and, of course, we have established that anyone crossing the
border is, in fact, a criminal. So, Governor Walz, I am just
curious, given Americans' overwhelming support of President
Trump's immigration policies, do you believe your record on
immigration is one of the reasons you lost the vice presidency?
Governor Walz. Congressman, I am not familiar with the
polls you are talking about. I can only speak to Minnesota,
that there is an anger about how it is being carried out. No
one disagrees that we needed immigration reform and we need to
fix it. What they do not see is whether it is a United States
Senator being taken down for asking a question or whether it is
a 4-year-old girl with cancer being sent out of the country.
That is the frustration.
Mr. Jack. Well, put another way, I am just curious. You
were on a national ticket that lost, and I am curious what
issues do you believe you failed to litigate properly with the
American voters?
Governor Walz. Oh, I will let history re-litigate that.
Mr. Jack. Fair enough, and I will just close, Governor
Walz, if I could. One of the concerns that has been raised
about why illegal immigration was so bad under President Biden
is that he just cognitively was not there during the end of his
presidency. When did you first become aware of President
Biden's cognitive decline?
Governor Walz. I do not have the expertise to judge on
that.
Mr. Jack. Did you have conversations with Vice President
Harris at any point about his cognitive decline?
Governor Walz. Not that I can recall, no.
Mr. Jack. With that, I yield back to our Chairman. Thank
you for convening this hearing, and I appreciate your attention
to all of our communities that we serve. Thank you, Chairman.
Chairman Comer. Thank you. The gentleman yields back.
Because we had some waive-on Members on our side that went
over, I am going to yield 2 minutes to Mr. Lynch.
Mr. Lynch. Thank you. I just want to update the gentleman
on the most recent polls. You are right, the President did have
favorable marks on his immigration policy early on, but since
the snatch-and-grabs have started, he is underwater. Fifty-four
percent of the American people oppose him, his current policy,
this active policy he has got going on right now.
With that, I know, Governor Pritzker, you had a desire to
fire back at some of the allegations to you. You have that
opportunity now. I yield you as much time as you need, although
if you have any left over, you can give it to your colleagues.
Governor Pritzker. I appreciate it, and I am a sharer.
Thank you very much, Congressman, and let me just say that I am
so proud of my state and the way that we have operated,
particularly, in the last 6-and-a-half half years to protect
people. Public safety, so important in our state. I have
increased the number of state police in Illinois actually to
highs that did not exist even before my predecessor, the
Republican governor. We also have done a lot to invest in
violence prevention, and you have seen the result of that and
the fact that we have banned assault weapons, that we have
banned ghost guns. I would ask the Members of Congress and the
Members of this Committee to work to ban assault weapons across
the United States. It worked back in the 1990's. It would work
again, if you pass it, to lower the crime rate, lower the
homicide rate.
We have so much work to do as a country on immigration
reform, and I do not understand why, at about 50/50--this
Congress is about 50/50 between the two parties--isn't it about
time that you got together and got comprehensive immigration
reform done? We have seen over the last 40 years, attempts
along the way. It always fails every time. It is because of
Republican Members walking away from the table. You all are in
control of the Congress and the presidency. You can get
together with Democrats and get something put together that
will secure our border and have a big door that allows people
to come who are working hard, who will raise families in the
United States and help our economy.
Mr. Lynch. Governor Walz, I know you took some incoming
today.
Governor Walz. Yes.
Mr. Lynch. You got any closing remarks?
Governor Walz. That is part of it. I would just say,
Chairman Comer, Acting Ranking Member, thank you to you, and
those folks sitting behind you and along the wall, thank you to
all of you for accommodating this.
Chairman Comer. Thank you.
Governor Walz. Chairman, thank you specifically for
accommodating our state schedule on budget.
Chairman Comer. Thank you.
Governor Walz. I am grateful.
Mr. Lynch. Governor Hochul.
Governor Hochul. No, thank you for the opportunity, again,
Chairman Comer, Ranking Member Lynch. Not sure what to say
after today's experience, almost eight hours of sitting here
and not doing the work of the people of the State of New York,
but here is what I want to say. My number one priority has
always been and always will be keeping New Yorkers safe. I
believe our policies and our laws, as implemented, do. Second
point I want to make, I want express my absolute outrage on
what we have seen happen to a U.S. senator in the United States
of America. Regardless of what anyone does, to have someone
like that treated like a common criminal as if he was a threat,
and throw him down and have to handcuff him with three people,
shocks the conscience. And as a former member of this body, I
hope we will all stand up and condemn this and say we can do
better. This is a great country. Let us make sure we ensure
that it stays great.
Mr. Lynch. Thank you, and, Ms. Skye Perryman, I just want
to say thank you to you for your help here today. Thank you.
Ms. Perryman. Thanks for having me.
Chairman Comer. Thank you, Ranking Member, and I am going
to assume you all have not seen the entire tape at the
beginning. I am sure MSNBC or whoever sent you the clips have
only shown you the end, but I think it will be interesting when
you see the entire clip of the incident with the Senator.
Before we close, I want to thank the Abraham family, again,
for attending today. The purpose of this hearing is to try to
get the criminal illegal immigrants out of this country, and I
think that is a goal that an overwhelming majority of Americans
have. The governors said under oath that they were not
sanctuary states and they would cooperate with the Federal
Government. We will see if that happens. That is good to hear,
but we will see if that happens.
So, with that and without objection, all Members have 5
legislative days within which to submit materials and
additional written questions for the witnesses, which will be
forwarded to the witnesses.
If there is no further business, again, I want to thank the
witnesses for being here today. I know it was a long day. Thank
you so much and thank you for your service.
So, without objection, the Committee stands adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 5:59 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
[all]