[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]





                                



 
                    BREAKING DOWN BARRIERS: GETTING


                   VETERANS ACCESS TO LIFESAVING CARE

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               before the

                         SUBCOMMITTEE ON HEALTH

                                 of the

                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                        TUESDAY, MARCH 25, 2025

                               __________

                           Serial No. 119-13

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
       
       
       
             GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT
 


                    Available via http://govinfo.gov
                    
                    
                    
                           ______

             U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 
 60-685          WASHINGTON : 2025
 
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman

AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking 
    American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman      Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               JULIA BROWNLEY, California
NANCY MACE, South Carolina           CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa       SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina        Florida
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin         MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas               DELIA RAMIREZ, Illinois
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois
KEITH SELF, Texas                    TIMOTHY M. KENNEDY, New York
JEN KIGGANS, Virginia                MAXINE DEXTER, Oregon
ABE HAMADEH, Arizona                 HERB CONAWAY, New Jersey
KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern       KELLY MORRISON, Minnesota
    Mariana Islands
TOM BARRETT, Michigan

                       Jon Clark, Staff Director
                  Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director

                         SUBCOMMITTEE ON HEALTH

               MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa, Chairwoman

JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               JULIA BROWNLEY, California, 
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina        Ranking Member
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin         SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
JEN KIGGANS, Virginia                    Florida
ABE HAMADEH, Arizona                 MAXINE DEXTER, Oregon
KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern       HERB CONAWAY, New Jersey
    Mariana Islands                  KELLY MORRISON, Minnesota

Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public 
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also 
published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the 
official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare 
both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process 
of converting between various electronic formats may introduce 
unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the 
current publication process and should diminish as the process is 
further refined.
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                        TUESDAY, MARCH 25, 2025

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

The Honorable Mariannette Miller-Meeks, Chairwoman...............     1
The Honorable Julia Brownley, Ranking Member.....................     2

                               WITNESSES
                                Panel I

Ms. Missy Jarrott, Mother of Navy Veteran Landon Holcomb.........     4

Mr. Michael Urban, LCSW, Army Veteran and Mental Health Advocate.     6

Dr. Shankar Yalamanchili, Chief Executive Officer, River Region 
  Psychiatry Associates..........................................     8

                                Panel II

Dr. Maria D. Llorente, Acting Undersecretary for Health, Office 
  of Integrated Veterans Care, Veterans Health Administration, 
  U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs............................    17

        Accompanied by:

    Dr. Ilse Wiechers, Deputy Director, Office of Mental Health, 
        Veterans Health Administration, U.S. Department of 
        Veterans Affairs

                                APPENDIX
                    Prepared Statements Of Witnesses

Ms. Missy Jarrott Prepared Statement.............................    29
Mr. Michael Urban Prepared Statement.............................    32
Dr. Shankar Yalamanchili Prepared Statement......................    63
Dr. Maria D. Llorente Prepared Statement.........................    65

                       Statements For The Record

American Academy of Physician Associates Prepared Statement......    67
National Association for Behavioral Healthcare Prepared Statement    69


   BREAKING DOWN BARRIERS: GETTING VETERANS ACCESS TO LIFESAVING CARE

                              ----------                              


                        TUESDAY, MARCH 25, 2025

                    Subcommittee on Health,
                    Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                             U.S. House of Representatives,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 3:20 p.m., in 
room 360, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Mariannette 
Miller-Meeks [chairwoman of the subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Miller-Meeks, Brownley, Dexter, 
and Morrison.
    Also present: Representative Carter.

   OPENING STATEMENT OF MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, CHAIRWOMAN

    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Subcommittee on Health will now come to 
order. Before I begin my remarks, I would like to highlight 
some numbers. First, $20.9 billion. That is the amount the 
Veterans Health Administration (VHA) received in 2001 at the 
onset of the global war on terror. In that same year, an 
estimated 16 to 17 veterans took their own lives every single 
day.
    Second, $121 billion. That is the amount the VHA received 
in 2024 after nearly two decades of war and an entire 
generation of veterans now relying on the system billed to care 
for them. 17, that is the number of veterans our Nation loses 
to suicide every single day in 2024. That number could be 
higher as the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) does not 
include veterans who lose their lives to overdoses in its 
official suicide statistics.
    The numbers tell a clear story. VA's problem is not a lack 
of resources. VA's problem is not a lack of funding. VA's 
problem is not a lack of staffing. VA's problem is not that 
Congress has failed to provide what it needs to care for those 
who have served.
    Since the beginning of the global war on terror, VA's 
budget has increased an incredible 479 percent. Yet, the number 
of veterans we lose every day has remained approximately the 
same, and these are just to suicides that we know about or that 
the VA counts. Some seem to believe that the solution is 
straightforward. Continue to invest in VA staffing, expand 
services, grow the system, but the number do not lie. If the 
money alone could solve this problem, it would have been solved 
long ago.
    No, the VA does not have a resource problem. It has an 
access and a process problem. It is a blatant failure of the VA 
to adapt to the needs of the very people it was created to 
serve. VA's current processes are not designed to provide 
veterans care when and where they need it. Instead, veterans 
are left waiting, navigating delays, bureaucratic red tape, and 
systemic inefficiencies that create barriers rather than 
breaking them down. Well, I believe that Congress and the VA 
has taken some necessary steps to increase access, it is not 
enough.
    We continue to hear from veterans who are turned away from 
the lifesaving care that they need. Some are denied residential 
treatment because they had not previously sought VA care as if 
a veteran in crisis should have predicted their need for help 
years in advance. Others are told they cannot access community 
care unless a VA facility fails to meet a 20-day threshold, 
forcing them to wait even when immediate alternative options 
exist. Some are simply lost in the system, bounced from program 
to program expected to navigate a maze of bureaucracy while 
struggling with the very mental health conditions that make the 
process overwhelming.
    In one particular case, a veteran suffered from severe 
alcohol withdrawal who was seeking admission into a residential 
rehabilitation treatment program (RRTP) in the community was 
outright denied because the VA stated they had a bed available 
100 miles away. Had the leadership at that community facility 
not stepped up, the VA would have effectively forced that 
veteran into homelessness.
    That is why I support Chairman Bost's Veterans Assuring 
Critical Care Expansions to Support Servicemembers (ACCESS) 
Act, which takes long overdue steps toward fixing these issues. 
The Veterans ACCESS Act recognizes that the goal should be to 
protect veterans, not VA bureaucracy. It cuts through VA's 
arbitrary restrictions by allowing more veterans to seek the 
care they desperately need in the community when the VA cannot 
provide it.
    VA claims that there is no wrong door for veterans seeking 
care. Yet, we continue to hear about doors locked, doors 
hidden, and doors that simply do not exist. It is time we stop 
making excuses and start making changes, real changes and 
putting veterans first.
    Today, we will hear firsthand from those who can speak to 
these process failures, and those that can help us fix them. 
The cost of inaction is too high. Thank you all for being here. 
I look forward to today's discussion. With that, I yield to 
Ranking Member Brownley for any opening remarks she may have.

      OPENING STATEMENT OF JULIA BROWNLEY, RANKING MEMBER

    Ms. Brownley. Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to first 
say that we cannot have a hearing discussing veterans' access 
to mental healthcare without also acknowledging the very real 
impacts that the Trump Administration's chaotic and haphazard 
actions are causing both to VA's mental health workforce and to 
the mental health many veterans who rely on VA for their 
healthcare, their support system, and their livelihoods.
    Veterans are scared. Scared that their VA mental health 
providers who are being forced to report to work in person at 
facilities that do not have room for them will decide that 
providing care in an environment that does not ensure veteran 
privacy is not worth it and will resign from the VA.
    They are scared that the very support staff who make it 
possible for VA providers to focus on care and putting veterans 
first will be fired, leaving clinicians less able to focus on 
their care. They are scared that the outside research and 
agencies that help improve VA care will be shut down weakening 
VA's ability to provide world class care.
    Unexpected VA staffing shortages are already affecting 
veterans in my district. Just last Thursday, I held a 
roundtable for veterans to share the impacts they are 
experiencing related to workforce cuts at VA. In a very 
concerning way I heard that at a local vet center that serves 
many of the veterans in my district, there is only one provider 
left to offer care.
    Typically, vet centers employ at least four or five 
providers. Because of this severe staffing shortage and VA's 
failure to fill these critical vacancies, the vet center now 
can only offer group therapy, which is not clinically 
appropriate for every veteran.
    Workforce shortages and cuts at VA should not be what 
determines how and where veterans receive care. If the Trump 
Administration moves forward with its plan to further cut its 
workforce by up to 83,000 employees, I fear this problem will 
only get worse and veterans have less choice than ever before. 
This context leads me to today's hearing topic.
    The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) cuts in the 
Trump Administration's workforce actions are already directly 
impacting the programs we are discussing today. My staff has 
heard of at least one researcher who was fired from VA's Center 
for Substance and Addiction Treatment and Education, the center 
responsible for developing best clinical practices for 
substance use disorders.
    The Trump Administration has also taken an aim at the 
Department of Health and Human Services' Substance Abuse and 
Mental Health Services Administration, or SAMHSA, where cuts of 
up to 50 percent of the workforce is expected.
    SAMHSA oversees 988, the national suicide and crisis line 
which routs calls directly to the veterans crisis line through 
988, press 1. Although SAMHSA's programs do not directly serve 
veterans, cutting its workforce will undoubtedly have ripple 
effects across any provider of substance use disorder 
treatment.
    I agree with my colleagues across the aisle that we must 
ensure that any veteran who is ready to seek assistance can get 
that treatment. I do not agree that the answer is to cut 
existing workforce at VA, but other essential services and 
research, and just throw the doors open to community providers 
because VA has not developed a fee schedule for residential 
rehabilitation treatment programs.
    Community providers who treat veterans can effectively set 
their own rates, and VA will reimburse them at rates far higher 
than the industry norms. These providers has a vested financial 
interest in treating veterans, a population that they admit in 
their own statements that they have not been able to access 
because so many already receive care at VA.
    Worse still there is a serious lack of oversight over 
community providers. There is no guarantee that veterans 
receiving care in the community will get better, more timely 
access to care, and we do not know if they do because VA does 
not track that. When veterans do access care at residential 
treatment facilities in the community, we have no way of 
knowing the level of treatment or support that they are 
getting.
    We do not know if veterans are receiving care from 
providers who understand what it means to be a veteran and can 
establish a rapport with their patients. We do not know if they 
are being referred back to VA care in a timely manner as VA is 
in the best position to coordinate their overall care beyond 
treatment for their substance use disorder, which is often just 
one aspect of their overall healthcare needs.
    Unfortunately because VA has not developed a fee schedule 
for resident rehabilitation treatment, there is also no way to 
ensure that VA is overpaying for these services. In fact, we 
have heard of some community residential treatment centers 
charging VA up to $6,000 a day for one veteran's care. It 
simply will not be sustainable for VA to continue paying for 
these services at these rates.
    I have said before, we must find a balance between 
community care and VA direct care. In my opinion, we have not 
found that balance when it comes to residential rehabilitation 
treatment facilities, and I look forward to hearing from our VA 
witnesses on how we can work together to get closer to that 
balance. I thank our witnesses for being here today. With that, 
I will yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Ranking Member Brownley. I 
would now like to introduce the panel 1 witnesses. Testifying 
before us today we have Ms. Missy Jarrott, mother of Navy 
Veteran Landon Holcomb, excuse me. Mr. Michael Urban, Army 
veteran and licensed clinical social worker, and Dr. Shankar 
Yalamanchili, Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of River Region 
Psychiatry Association (RRPA). Ms. Jarrott, you are now 
recognized for 5 minutes to deliver your testimony.

                   STATEMENT OF MISSY JARROTT

    Ms. Jarrott. Honorable Chairwoman and Ranking Member 
Brownley, and all of the members attending today. I have Landon 
sitting right beside me, right here. If you will notice that 
infectious smile that I am about to mention.
    If soldiers are going to die it needs to be at the attempt 
of an enemy, not a lack of effort and unorganized antics by the 
VA. The VA is killing our soldiers. My son Landon, who served 
as a air traffic controller Navy veteran, Naval Air Station 
(NAS) Jacksonville, 7 years ago was struggling to find mental 
health in a system that completely failed him.
    Like many veterans, he reached out to the VA for help and 
support. His first consultation with a provider was on December 
4, 2023. However, the VA did not provide a follow-up visit 
until April 10, 2024. Landon had scheduled events between this 
timeframe. However, unfortunately the VA canceled multiple 
visits denying him the chance to see a provider who specialized 
in medicine management.
    Landon tried and tried to keep his head up, that the VA 
would follow through. He was experiencing anxiety, insomnia, 
restlessness, and mood swings. Landon knew that he needed a 
mood stabilizer. ``Mom, I am struggling.'' After four 
unsuccessful months, he began to unravel with all of the 
canceled appointments. He became hopeless in the system. He was 
very emotional.
    On April 10, he visited the Savannah VA mental health team 
who determined that he was not under distress. How do you 
determine mental health when symptoms are invisible? Landon 
said the visit was a checklist, and he explained that he had 
been asking for a psychiatrist, medicine management. He was 
hoping for a better outcome and knew that this meant another 
delay in getting the help he critically needed.
    Those that smile the brightest might be fighting a war 
within. Landon was fighting. He came by to see me after this 
visit. At this point, family and friends became involved in 
searching for a psychiatrist and to no avail. We took it upon 
ourselves to call a psychiatrist in the Savannah, Bluffton, and 
Hilton Head, South Carolina areas. They did not accept military 
insurance, take new patients, or charged $300 an hour. More 
stress.
    Landon made numerous call himself. ``Hey Mom. I was calling 
you back. I was on my scooter. I was at the gym. I tried to 
call. I have also been out for some therapy groups, in 
Savannah, and the people over here at Social Empire. I have 
made a lot of phone calls this morning. I am going to get a 
workout in. Call me back when you want to. All right, love you. 
Bye.''
    That call, that voicemail, was the Monday before he died. 
On April 19, he received a call from the Charleston VA for a 
Zoom appointment scheduled for May 3. He did not make that 
appointment and passed away on May 2. The unthinkable happened. 
Landon was found in the restroom of a restaurant on Hilton Head 
Island. He had fentanyl in his system. To numb his pain, he 
thought he was taking oxys. Landon did not plan to leave us. He 
was not suicidal. The hopelessness of canceled appointments, 
feeling abandoned, and not taken seriously and the emotional 
spiraling ended his life.
    Landon was buried at the Beaufort National Cemetery in 
South Carolina with US Naval honors on May 13. He leaves behind 
two beautiful teenagers, a loving family, and many loving 
friends. He was a true patriot who loved his country. Help just 
did not come soon enough.
    Mental health is real. It cannot wait. All Landon asked for 
was a mental health appointment for medicine management. He 
raised his hand over and over again. In memory of my 39-year-
old son could light up the room with his infectious smile let 
his voice, I am sorry, be heard from heaven above.
    On behalf of the veterans who struggle every day, let us be 
reminded to never leave a soldier behind. These are our 
children. This is why I am here today. How many more 
testimoneys is it going to take for change? How many? May God 
bless our military serving all over the world, and may God 
bless our veterans and all our military families.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Missy Jarrott Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much, Ms. Jarrott. Mr. 
Urban, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to present your 
testimony.

                   STATEMENT OF MICHAEL URBAN

    Mr. Urban. Good afternoon, members of the committee. I am 
honored to share my personal story and experiences with the 
Department of Veterans Affairs medical system.
    In 2003, after serving 4 years as a paratrooper in the 82d 
Airborne, I was medically discharged following an accident 
during a jump. The subsequent 13 surgeries led to a regimen of 
heavy opioid use, a path all too familiar to many veterans.
    In 2004, I began receiving care at the Philadelphia VA 
Medical Center. In my journey, I have experienced firsthand the 
challenges of accessing care within the VA system. When I 
sought help in 2004, I faced a wait time of two to 3 months for 
a bed. I have had multiple stays in VA RRTPs where I have 
witnessed practices that now as a clinician I know not to be 
best practices.
    In 2014, I had the opportunity to receive treatment outside 
the VA system, which provided a transformative experience. 
Since December 2, 2014, I have maintained sobriety and achieved 
numerous personal and professional milestones all attributed to 
the quality care I received.
    Community providers are required to operate following 
American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM), a standard of 
care which is much higher than that of VA. A standard in which 
I encourage VA to adopt. Office of Inspector General (OIG) has 
applied and referenced this standard during investigation into 
the deaths of veterans related to the lack of alcohol 
detoxification standards.
    In 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024, how many years, or yet 
better, how many more veterans must die before VA follows a 
standard? In 2020, during the pandemic I developed a program 
for veterans affected by lockdown treating approximately 200 
veterans from Veterans Integrated Service Network (VISN) 4 and 
under 6 months. This experience highlighted the potential for 
collaboration between VA and community providers, but also 
revealed inconsistent practices across different VA facilities. 
In 2021, I joined a national provider to develop a veteran 
program at 18 facilities expanding my presence from local to 
national. This afforded me a unique glimpse of the entire VA 
system.
    Over the past 4 years, I have visited over 75 Veterans 
Affairs Medical Centers (VAMCs), numerous Community-Based 
Outpatient Clinics (CBOCs) and vet centers. I had the privilege 
to address VA service gaps not only at our 18 facilities, but 
by opening facilities in Alaska, Denver, virtual services for 
rural veterans in developing an eating disorder program 
specifically for veterans.
    Through my extensive interactions with veterans, veteran 
advocates and VA employees across the country I have 
consistently encountered growing challenges in accessing 
community care for mental health. We have observed a decline in 
a veteran's ability to receive this essential care, and this 
problem is not confined to a specific region.
    I have witnessed it in VA medical centers from Florida to 
Alaska. Unfortunately, the situation has deteriorated since 
last March. At Brockton VA, I worked with a veteran who was 
denied entry into RRTP due to past behavior. He then requested 
community care, but was denied without reason.
    At Hines, a veteran was told drive time standards do not 
apply to his RRTP needs. In Houston, veterans are restricted to 
facilities only approved by the chief limiting their choices. 
In Denver, veterans are all forced to travel out of State for 
VA care when it is available locally in the community.
    In Portland VA, social workers confirmed, ``We do not use 
community care,'' referring veterans to Medicare-accepted 
providers instead. In Philadelphia, veterans were denied 
community care due to the chief who told me, ``I cannot send 
veterans to the community as it will not allow me to justify my 
budget next year.''
    The issues faced by veterans in accessing community care 
are systemic and widespread. These challenges include VA has 
often failed to provide written explanations for denying 
community care, the interpretation of access standards, 
obtaining a consult and referral for substance abuse and mental 
health have become complex and time consuming, requests for 
services for veterans hospitalized in the community are not 
processed promptly leading to prolonged delays and discharge 
without necessary care. 5, ignoring the best medical interest 
standard.
    Administrators often prioritize VA interest over decisions 
made by the veteran and provider. I have personally witnessed 
the struggles of homelessness and addictive veterans in almost 
every State. Many of them prefer not to seek care at the VA due 
to the barriers that they face, instead opting for Medicaid or 
community resources.
    This raises a question. Why should veterans who are 
entitled to VA services rely on Medicaid when VA is 
specifically funded to support them? VA has a tagline: ``Choose 
VA.'' Well, I must tell you. It is not much of a choice when VA 
employees are the ones making the choice.
    During the pandemic, we demonstrated that community and VA 
can effectively collaborate to address challenges faced by 
veterans. By working together, we can better tackle these 
issues and provide more comprehensive support. It has become an 
``us versus them'' mentality, and the ones who suffer are my 
fellow veterans.
    Instead of creating barriers, VA should focus on removing 
them particularly for those seeking mental health treatment. 
Each year, VA releases statistics on veteran suicide which 
remains almost unchanged despite VA's significant investments 
and initiatives like increased outreach. While outreach is 
crucial, it is insufficient when a veteran in crisis in met 
with very limited options such as being placed on an acute 
psych ward or the police. Being confined in such a setting can 
feel punitive rather than supportive for those seeking help.
    It is time for us to prioritize improving access to care 
and the appropriate levels of care from the moment a veteran 
requests it rather than subjecting them to a bureaucratic 
nightmare, or worse a literal one. By doing so, we can ensure 
that veterans receive timely and effective support when they 
need it most. Whether it be at VA or in the community, we need 
timely access to care and we only get there by working 
together.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Michael Urban Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Mr. Urban. Dr. Yalamanchili, 
you are now recognized for 5 minutes to present your testimony.

               STATEMENT OF SHANKAR YALAMANCHILI

    Mr. Yalamanchili. Thank you. Good afternoon, Chairman 
Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member Brownley, and members of the 
subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I 
am honored and privileged to be here and serve our country.
    I am here to be a resource to our country, and our veterans 
and the VA. My name is Dr. Yalamanchili, though many know me as 
Dr. Chili, and I am a board certified psychiatrist with over 20 
years of experience. I currently serve as the founder and 
medical director of River Region Psychiatry Association, soon 
to be Ally Psychiatry, a multi-state behavioral health 
enterprise.
    Our mission is simple. To improve access to high quality 
mental healthcare for those who need it most, close to where 
they live, while reducing cost and increasing efficiency. Our 
practice roots started in, and we continue providing care in 
rural communities. As our future name suggests, we want to be 
an ally to everyone that seeks help.
    After beginning my psychiatric career in the VA hospitals 
of Montgomery and Tuskegee in 2005, I became increasingly 
frustrated with the inefficiencies that prevented veterans from 
getting timely care. I later moved to community health centers 
where I worked to improve operations.
    However, I quickly saw how widespread financial 
mismanagement, systemic inefficiencies, and fragmented care 
there really were, contributing to rising costs and poor 
outcomes not only for patients, but for the healthcare system 
as a whole.
    Today, I stand before you to offer a proven scalable 
solution that has already improved mental health access for 
thousands of patients, and one that has the potential to save 
our Nation, I believe, at least $1 billion annually in 
healthcare costs.
    At RRPA and Ally Psychiatry, we have built a care model 
that delivers patient-centered technology driven here across 
both inpatient and outpatient settings. In 2024 alone, our 68 
physicians and 157 advanced practice providers served over 
115,000 outpatients and completed over 400,000 patient visits.
    Our inpatient services are located in hospitals, jails, 
residential treatment centers ensuring care is accessible 
across a variety of environments. With this expansive 
footprint, our model delivers care at approximately 25 percent 
lower per patient cost than the traditional VA or hospital 
systems.
    Moreover, we consistently outperform national benchmarks 
achieving a 20 percent increase in emergency department 
throughput, 25 percent reduction in inpatient long-term stay, 
and 15 percent reduction in avoidable readmissions for 
behavioral health patients.
    Our providers average 1,000 more patient encounters a year 
more than full time employees at the VA who often see eight to 
ten patients a day on a 4-day work week. With our care model, 
100 RRPA providers working in the VA system could enable 
100,000 more patient visits annually while reducing costs up to 
20 to 30 percent, which is what we have seen in our current 
partnerships.
    There are real challenges in accessing care at the VA. 
Despite the best intentions of both providers and 
administrators, in 2023 a Government Accountability Office 
(GAO) report found that veterans often wait 30 days or more for 
routine mental health appointments, even longer in rural areas 
where sometimes wait times exceed 60 days.
    Community Care Network meant to expand access, but it often 
fails to meet the needs of veterans with chronic mental health 
conditions, providing only episodic care with limited 
continuity. Many of these issues are due in part to staffing 
shortages.
    For example, the VA OIG report reported that over 61 
facilities had severe psychology shortages, and 47 facilities 
have severe psychiatry shortages in 2023. This means that the 
providers that are there often cannot handle the current 
caseloads.
    Patients are not seen in a timely manner, and providers 
suffer burnout. Delayed care, as we hear, can lead to worsening 
mental health conditions, higher rates of hospitalizations, and 
increased emergency room use all of which endanger patients 
while seeing raised costs.
    The VA has a challenge to hire full time psychiatrists, 
nurse practitioners, and physician assistants. They are 
competing with the private market and hospital systems. When 
needed, contracting with practices like mine would allow the VA 
to save on hiring, training, long term benefit costs and 
infrastructure costs. It will enable the VA to scale staff 
based on need and have access to specialized expertise very 
quickly. They can do all of this while enhancing patient access 
and care.
    There are numerous ways that the VA can do this. There are 
models that I have outlined in written testimony. I believe 
that allowing increased public/private partnerships to address 
chronic care needs in a common sense a first step, particularly 
as this is an area where the current Community Care Network 
falls short.
    Under this model, for example, private partners would 
contract the VA for services as needed when there are staffing 
issues, lag in patient wait time, or lack of VA resources. 
Private partners would be required to integrate with the VA 
self-electronic medical records to ensure seamless information 
in sharing and collaboration with the VA teams. This allows for 
continuity of care, greater providers availability, and reduced 
wait times, especially for veterans in rural or underserved 
areas.
    A private practice such as mine, I have more flexibility to 
work with local clinics and provide greater telemedicine 
options. Therefore, we can eliminate typical access barriers 
and to lower the cost, deliver the most appropriate cost-
effective care. In emergencies, we can quickly get the veteran 
to the best level of care in a very short time.
    In closing, the VA needs support in closing access gaps and 
reducing wait times for mental health care. Our model at RRPA 
and Ally Psychiatry demonstrates that a partnership with 
private providers can expand capacity, improve patient 
outcomes, and reduce costs. This permanent public/private 
partnership model is a win-win for veterans, taxpayers, and our 
Nation. Our success so far is based on a collaborative model to 
improve outcomes, and we ask for the same. Thank you.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Shankar Yalamanchili Appears In 
The Appendix]

    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Mr. Yalamanchili. In 
accordance with Committee Rule 5E, I ask unanimous consent that 
Representative Carter from Georgia be permitted to participate 
in today's subcommittee hearing. Without objection, so ordered.
    As is my typical practice, I will reserve my time until all 
other members have had a chance to ask their questions. I now 
recognize Ranking Member Brownley for 5 minutes for any 
questions she might have.
    Ms. Brownley. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Urban, since you 
mentioned having been employed by a national provider of 
substance, excuse me, substance use disorder treatment starting 
in February 2021, the majority of my questions I think are 
going to be toward you.
    First I believe the company you work for starting in 
February 2021 was Banyon Treatment Recovery, LLC. Is that 
correct?
    Mr. Urban. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Brownley. Pardon me.
    Mr. Urban. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Brownley. Thank you. In your written testimony, you 
mention VA having cut reimbursement rates to this provider by 
90 percent for virtual care, and by 60 percent of her 
residential treatment and detox. What rates was Banyon charging 
VA daily?
    Mr. Urban. Ma'am, I could not answer that because I was not 
in billing.
    Ms. Brownley. You were not in the building?
    Mr. Urban. Billing.
    Ms. Brownley. In the billing.
    Mr. Urban. I do not take part in billing. I just build the 
programs and operate.
    Ms. Brownley. You have no idea how the VA's rates compare 
to other payer's rates?
    Mr. Urban. I do. Their initial rates were, I do not know 
who set them, but they were not educated.
    Ms. Brownley. They were not what?
    Mr. Urban. They were not educated. The rate fee that I did 
see was far beyond what anybody should have been reimbursed, 
but that was the VA schedule. We had nothing to do with that.
    Ms. Brownley. Well, VA does not have a schedule.
    Mr. Urban. They do, ma'am. I can forward it to you.
    Ms. Brownley. There is no established fee schedule for 
community providers in this kind of treatment.
    Mr. Urban. Ma'am, there is one in Alaska because that is 
why we ask for a fee waiver that you--that the VA just put out 
in 2025.
    Ms. Brownley. That might be the VA hospital in Alaska that 
does that, but not VA Central. Anyway, so I guess you do not 
know if your rates were higher or lower, about the same?
    Mr. Urban. No, ma'am. I said originally when I first saw 
the rates they were beyond what anybody should have been 
paying.
    Ms. Brownley. You are saying you are paying a lot less--
excuse me, charging a lot less?
    Mr. Urban. No. What VA was reimbursing based on their fee 
schedule was beyond what any commercial insurance pays. The 
rates are now in line due to most of the rate cuts. Now they 
have went so far that rural veterans and veterans in Alaska, 
you cannot sustain operations because they just cut them.
    Ms. Brownley. You seem to know a lot about their rates, but 
you do not know what Banyon was charging?
    Mr. Urban. I am not in the department.
    Ms. Brownley. I know, but you do not seem to know a lot 
about, you know, where the rates were, where they are now but 
yet do not have any idea what the number is.
    Mr. Urban. I do not, ma'am, because what I am told is these 
rates are getting cut. If we do not figure this out, you will 
not sustain treating veterans. My job is to build programs and 
operate them. I get told the budget and whatever it is they set 
for that facility. I am not in the internal billing.
    Ms. Brownley. Okay. Just for the record, I disagree the VA 
does not have a fee schedule for community providers, period. 
Full stop. In your bio it says in your current role as a 
consultant that you develop business strategies and train teams 
on outreach to the veteran and military populations. Can you 
elaborate on exactly what that means?
    Mr. Urban. Yes, ma'am. I train organizations who would like 
to work with veterans on veteran language, how the VA operates, 
how it functions, and how to collaborate. We have created 
systems to collaborate effectively with the VA.
    Ms. Brownley. Develop business strategies. What does that 
look like?
    Mr. Urban. That means teaching them how they can reach 
veterans in the community who need resources. In Alaska right, 
the villages where none of the VA employees will go, I train 
the company to go to the villages and find veterans and bring 
them back.
    Ms. Brownley. Okay. It just, honestly it sounds like to me 
that it says you are helping treatment facilities like the one 
you used to work for more effectively targeting veterans to 
receive care at the facilities who you have worked with, which 
also brings along a dedicated revenue stream in the form of VA 
reimbursements. Does a financial incentive to treat veterans 
exist in the facilities like Banyon?
    Mr. Urban. I mean, it is a job. It would be the same as if 
you worked at the VA. You have an interest in keeping veterans 
in the VA. Would you in the private sector?
    Ms. Brownley. I am talking about incentives, about how many 
people you can bring into the facility, et cetera.
    Mr. Urban. Not where I have worked. No, ma'am.
    Ms. Brownley. Okay. I will just say I think, you know, the 
providers in this industry seem to have, to me, a profit motive 
to serve veterans. VA's mission is to honor the promises we 
have made to our veterans and ethically care for their whole 
health after they serve our country. Their motivation is to 
provide world class care to veterans. It is clear to me that 
through the actions of your past employers and your own actions 
as a consultant that your motives are very different. With 
that, I will yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Ranking Member Brownley. The 
Chair now recognizes Dr. Dexter for 5 minutes for any questions 
she may have.
    Ms. Dexter. Thank you, Madam Chair. First, thank to our 
panel for coming in. Ms. Jarrott, I am so sorry for the loss of 
your son, and thank you for your courage coming to share his 
story with us. It means a great deal. Having taken care of many 
patients unfortunately like your son as a critical care doctor, 
what I can say for certain is that he is not unfortunately 
alone, and we are failing not just our veterans, but everyone 
in our community across this country. This is a tragic reality 
that we are all facing.
    I also know having been both a VA and community provider 
that community standard as Mr. Urban talked about is actually 
not superior in many areas to the Veterans Administration care. 
I know we are failing everyone broadly. To be clear, what we do 
not know with these policies, and this is just for the record, 
we do not have any ability to compare when we refer someone 
whether or not they will get community care faster than they 
will get in the VA, or if it is better quality.
    On that quality note, Mr. Urban, I wanted to first thank 
you for your service to our country and for sharing your story 
as well with substance use disorder, and your desire which is 
clear to help our veterans deal with that. I just your 
intentions are good and that you share in this committee's 
commitment to ensuring our veterans receive the highest quality 
of care.
    What I read in preparing for today's hearing, similar to 
what I think on my Ranking Member, we are trying to get to is 
that we are concerned about the reimbursement that does not 
have a fee schedule. I know that different areas may have 
different policies. That we are paying as much as $6,000 a day 
for inpatient care for some of this treatment. Mr. Urban, does 
that seem consistent with community levels of reimbursement in 
your experience?
    Mr. Urban. Currently, or when they started?
    Ms. Dexter. $6,000 a day reimbursement.
    Mr. Urban. It is absolutely insane. I said that in my last 
statement.
    Ms. Dexter. Yes.
    Mr. Urban. No one should be paying that amount of money.
    Ms. Dexter. I agree. I think what foundationally I would 
usurp is that before we pass any such policy as this, we should 
have a fee schedule. We need to have control over what we are 
paying to the community because there is waste, fraud, and 
abuse that is potentially going to be a risk with this without 
better control. We also should know how long it should take for 
someone to be expecting treatment if they are sent to the 
community, and whether it is sooner than the VA. Those things I 
wanted to establish.
    I also understand that you were the manager. You were not 
in charge of running these facilities necessarily. Is that 
correct, Mr. Urban?
    Mr. Urban. Correct, ma'am.
    Ms. Dexter. Okay. There clearly were many issues at both 
Banyon Treatment and Recovery, as well as is it correct that 
you worked at the Livengrin Foundation in 2019 through 2021?
    Mr. Urban. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Dexter. Okay. Also at Sobriety Solutions from June 2018 
to May 2020?
    Mr. Urban. Yes, they were not community providers though.
    Ms. Dexter. None of those are providing----
    Mr. Urban. Just Livengrin.
    Ms. Dexter. Okay, thank you for that clarification. The 
thing I wanted to offer is there could be community care in 
different areas of the community. That may be a reflective 
experience that these facilities each had improper safety--
well, I will say to Banyon there were improper safety measures 
at one of their facilities that led to a permanent paralysis of 
a patient who fell from the fourth floor roof. That there were 
nurses who had wages that were revoked. That the New Jersey 
Commission of Investigation found that Banyon was engaged in 
patient brokering and the practice of paying for referrals.
    I am not asserting that this is your practice by any means. 
What I do want to suggest is that there is incentive for waste, 
fraud, and abuse when we do not have clear expectations for 
community care and the quality of that care. Even when 
providers have the best interest, that you may not have control 
of that. Is that a fair assertion, Mr. Urban?
    Mr. Urban. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Dexter. Thank you. For the committee what I wanted to 
establish is that even for someone who clearly cares for the 
wellness of our veterans and is a veteran who has suffered with 
substance use disorder and wants to serve, it is challenging to 
maintain high levels of care. Our veterans deserve to have that 
highest quality, most effective care. We know that that is 
provided within the Veterans Administration.
    Until we have a fee schedule that is established and 
disincentives waste, fraud, and abuse, I would assert that we 
should not be considering further exploration of expansion of 
this. Thank you.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. The gentlewoman yields. The Chair now 
recognizes Representative Carter for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Carter. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for holding 
this hearing. I appreciate this very much, and thank you for 
allowing me to waive on. I also want to thank the witnesses, 
particularly my constituent, Ms. Jarrott.
    Thank you for being here. Your courage is an inspiration to 
all of us, and I want you to know how much we appreciate this. 
I know this is not easy for you, and you have been up here--it 
is the second time you have been up here, I think, in less than 
a month, and we appreciate that very much.
    I know that I say I know. I can only imagine what it is 
like to lose a son. I cannot even go there. I want you to know 
that you have made a purpose of making sure that you are 
advocating for necessary changes that, and reforms to the VA, 
that would raise awareness about the dangers of illicit 
fentanyl poisoning. As you know, I am a pharmacist, and I am 
very familiar with fentanyl, and I am very familiar with the 
illicit use of it.
    I want to tell you, Madam Chair, members of the committee, 
first class, as you have heard, first class Landon Holcomb 
exemplified what it meant to be and to serve his country. He 
was born in Savannah, Georgia on April 22, 1985, and he was a 
proud veteran, and he was a patriot of this great nation.
    He served as an air traffic controller in Jacksonville, 
Florida. He was a father to two children. They are now 
teenagers. He passed away on May 2, 2024, due to fentanyl 
poisoning. Poisoning, not addiction. No. Poisoning.
    He was a veteran who was experiencing mental health issues 
like many of our veterans do once they get out of the service. 
Like many of our veterans he reached out to the VA, but 
unfortunately the VA's response was not adequate, and it was 
unsuccessful from preventing the tragedy from occurring. Under 
the previous administration, the VA canceled multiple visits 
and denied Mr. Holcomb a chance to see a healthcare provider 
during a time of need.
    Ms. Jarrott, do you believe that had your son been able to 
receive care from qualified providers in the community without 
delay, do you believe it would have changed the outcome?
    Ms. Jarrott. Yes, he would be with us today. What we 
experienced with him and the emotions to the point here I let 
the committee hear his voicemail, which was Monday prior to 
passing away on Thursday, went to work Tuesday, went to work 
Wednesday, called Thursday morning to talk to his brother and 
myself, and who was vacationing from Colorado in Savannah. We 
all had plans.
    After it was around 5:22 p.m. he walked into a restaurant 
as I said on the Island. They found him 45 minutes later. They 
worked on him 20 minutes. Of course, the telephone call, 
receiving the call, and you know I will never forget it. You 
know, grieving, it is always going to be there. I question as 
to whether I was going to come back up here. Thanks for 
Congresswoman Miller-Meeks, I received an invitation to come 
back.
    Giving back I guess I could call this a way for me to give 
back, maybe in Landon's memory, a veteran's memory, veterans 
out there like I said are waiting. I sit here, and I listen. I 
sat through your, you know, your previous meeting. I sit here 
listening, going back and forth about what should be covered in 
benefits under the VA. I am thinking, why is this even an 
issue?
    In the private health sector under private plans, we cover 
bariatrics. We cover the therapy you are talking about, and you 
are still talking about it. Preventative care has been there 
100 percent down the line. We even cover vitamins in our plan. 
Preventative care is all about providing those tools and 
resources to keep people healthy, and that includes veterans 
and their dependence as well.
    I am like therapy. In 2019 under the Trump Administration, 
he passed the right to try. Yet, you are sitting here talking 
about are we going to cover this or that? Well, a veteran has 
the same right as we do to try psychedelics, to try cancer 
treatments, and to try therapy programs. If I am wrong, let me 
know. In my mind, I was thinking right to try is out there. Why 
is it a question? Why cannot they do it if they want to do it, 
and they make that decision as to whether they want to have it 
or not based on whatever they know.
    Under the VA I cannot imagine. I just realized you talking 
about there is not a fee schedule. How do you operate without a 
fee schedule? I mean, networks operate, doctors operate with 
fee schedules. When you are in a network, the whole reason you 
have a network is because doctors are looking for you to steer 
patients to them, which reduces fees.
    A network, okay so there is networks. You have the 
community care group. By the way, when I went to our zip code 
in Savannah here is your VA website, va.gov, and you can go 
across and you can review benefits, resources, tools, mental 
health. I went to the mental health site, and I typed in--you 
can search a provider by the zip code or city.
    I typed in our zip code in Savannah, Georgia, the facility 
type which is required. It comes up, community providers in 
VA's network, service type required. You can type in 
chiropractic or optometrist. I typed psychiatrist. It pulled 
up, we could not find that. Please try another service.
    Mr. Carter. Ms. Jarrott, wait. I am sorry, we have already 
gone over.
    Ms. Jarrott. Yes.
    Mr. Carter. The Chair has been very indulgent.
    Ms. Jarrott. Yes.
    Mr. Carter. Again, I want to thank you for being here.
    Ms. Jarrott. Yes.
    Mr. Carter. I want to thank you for your courage and your 
advocacy. You have made it your purpose to bring this to the 
attention to all of us, and we appreciate that very much and 
God bless you.
    Ms. Jarrott. Well, thank you, Congressman. I appreciate it.
    Mr. Carter. Absolutely.
    Ms. Jarrott. Thank you for the invitation.
    Mr. Carter. I thank you for your indulgence, all the 
committee.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. The gentleman yields. Thank you very 
much, Representative Carter. Ms. Jarrott, thank you for your 
bravery and being here. I guess I just have a simple question. 
Your son was denied and delayed numerous appointments.
    Ms. Jarrott. Right.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. The initial appointments were months 
apart when he received one visit. Did anyone at the VA ever 
explain your family's right to access community care or offer 
you alternative treatment options when VA programs were not 
available?
    Ms. Jarrott. To my knowledge, no.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Yes. You know, today we have heard that, 
you know, veterans should have the highest quality, most 
effective care. Do you think that your son, through the VA, had 
the highest quality most effective care?
    Ms. Jarrott. Congresswoman, Landon lived in Colorado, so he 
accessed the VA in Colorado. There was not a problem there. He 
said, ``Mom, it is state-of-the-art.'' He lived in Asheville, 
North Carolina. He was pleased with the facility there, okay, 
the VA there. As a matter of fact, he made a comment. He said, 
``Mom, if I were back in Asheville, you know, I would have 
gotten in sooner.'' Okay. He moved south to be near family, his 
daughter, et cetera.
    What I am saying is what he saw, there are inconsistencies 
between the centers, and they are not--there is not 
coordination of care.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Precisely, which is why we have community 
care.
    Ms. Jarrott. Right.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Because of the inconsistencies and lack 
of care, do you believe that no care is better than care in the 
community? Mr. Urban, is no care better than care in the 
community?
    Mr. Urban. Absolutely not.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Dr. Chili, is no care better than care in 
the community?
    Mr. Yalamanchili. No, ma'am.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. How cost effective is it if people die 
waiting for care at the VA? Dr. Chili, you noted the practices 
like yours achieve significant cost savings up to 30 percent 
while expanding patient capacity. That does not sound like you 
are driven by a profit motive to me. Can you provide more 
detail on how these savings are realized without compromising 
care quality, particularly within the VA system's regulatory 
framework?
    Mr. Yalamanchili. One of our philosophies is that, you 
know, we went to school with the community at large, actually 
families and universities that have given us a unique skill to 
treat patients. With that we kind of, in the group anyway, we 
think that how many people can we reach? How many people can we 
touch? How many people can we help?
    In that model we set up our schedules in such a way that 
there is gradience in schedule where new patients require more 
time, patients in crisis require more time, patients that are 
midway through the treatment require a little bit less, 
patients that are stable require less. We collaborate between 
the providers and the therapist to see if how things are 
flowing and getting either better or worse. If patients need to 
come back sooner, we bring them back in sooner. If we need to 
see them more frequently, we see them more frequently.
    With this is kind of a matrix of how we see patients I 
think we are able to see more patients in a given day. At the 
end of the day it is the same cost, right? Then when you look 
at how much is--you know, let us say if we are spending 
whatever amount of money, but then we are seeing more patients 
then your per patient cost comes down.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you. Mr. Urban, given your story 
and both your written and verbal testimony, it seems to me like 
your experience at the VA or lack of care, inconsistent care, 
difficulty accessing care is really propelled you into the 
profession you now hold. Based upon your experience, what is 
the single most consequential policy failure that prevents 
veterans from receiving timely residential substance use 
disorder treatment through the VA.
    Mr. Urban. I think the time it gets access to care. If you 
read VHA Directive 1016.01, it says you know you have 7 days to 
complete a screening from when someone asks for help. 7 days? 
Good luck. Do you know how long it took me to get to those 7 
days before I was finally offered a bed 2 months away?
    I mean, I think the access to care and how long it takes to 
get care and the different--I do not want to say schemes. 
Different ways VAs have set up the process delays care, like, 
and every VA is different in the way you want to get a mental 
health referral to treatment and people just give up. They just 
say, I do not care. I will go to Medicaid, or I will use a 
community resource as opposed to get timely access.
    I am not opposed to getting care at the VA. Like, it should 
not take a month, 2 months. As far as standards, we cannot 
compare apples to apples when VA makes its own standard, and 
ASAM is what the industry follows.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Let me address that. What clinical 
standards, such as ASAM criteria, do you believe the VA should 
be required to adopt nationally to ensure consistent levels of 
care for substance use disorder treatment? If, Dr. Chili, you 
have input please provide that as well.
    Mr. Urban. I think it should be utilizing ASAM because it 
dictates the level of care someone should get at. It dictates 
the intensity of care. It dictates the services, the staffing 
ratios. It lays everything out in places somewhat appropriately 
as opposed to this, ``Well, we have a bed in the acute psych 
ward. We will put you there until an RRT''--like that is the 
difference.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. If I can allow you to redeem yourself, 
and I know I am going overtime. Mr. Urban, is what drives you 
to do what you do a profit?
    Mr. Urban. No, ma'am. I do not want someone waiting two to 
3 months for a bed.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Dr. Chili, given what you do and the 
model that you have created, is profit the reason why you do 
what you do?
    Mr. Yalamanchili. No, ma'am.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much. On behalf of the 
subcommittee, I want to thank you all for your testimony and 
for joining us today. You are now excused. We will wait for a 
moment while the second panel comes to the table.
    [Recess.]
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. I would now like to introduce the panel 2 
witnesses testifying before us today. Dr. Maria D. Llorente, 
Acting Assistant Under Secretary for Health for Integrated 
Veteran Care at the Veterans Health Administration who is 
accompanied by Dr. Ilse Wiechers, Deputy Director, Office of 
Mental Health at the Veterans Health Administration. If I 
mispronounced your name, please feel free to correct me. Dr. 
Llorente, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver your 
opening statement.

                  STATEMENT OF MARIA LLORENTE

    Ms. Llorente. Before I start my oral testimony, I just want 
to acknowledge and thank the first panel for sharing their very 
personal stories, particularly of one such devastating loss. It 
really does take a lot of courage, and I want to thank them for 
advocating for other veterans.
    Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member Brownley, and other 
members of this subcommittee, my name is Maria Llorente, and I 
was recently appointed as the Acting Assistant Under Secretary 
for Health for Integrated Veteran Care. It is been my privilege 
to work as a VA psychiatrist, being board certified in adult 
and geriatric psychiatry and addiction medicine for the past 30 
years.
    I take care of veterans with mental health and substance 
use disorders, and it is an honor to serve veterans who have 
made such significant sacrifices for our country. Thank you for 
the opportunity today to discuss the provision of residential 
substance use disorder, or SUD treatment through VA's mental 
health residential rehabilitation treatment programs, or MH 
RRTP and community care residential treatment programs.
    Joining me here today is Dr. Ilse Wiechers, Deputy 
Director, Office of Mental Health, Veterans Health 
Administration, also a geriatric psychiatrist and provider.
    Prior to the John S. McCain III, Daniel K. Akaka, and 
Samuel R. Johnson VA Maintaining Internal Systems and 
Strengthening Integrated Outside Networks (MISSION) Act, one of 
my prior roles as the associate chief of staff for mental 
health at a VA medical center experienced firsthand the 
challenges our veterans faced related to access for residential 
treatment programs. The facility where I worked did not have 
its own residential treatment program, so we had to refer 
veterans to other facilities that did. The demand for this 
lifesaving care often exceeded the supply of available beds, 
and this delay in care increased the risk of relapse and worse 
health outcomes.
    Offering our veterans access to residential treatment 
through community care address this concern. This allowed us to 
seamlessly transition the veteran into residential care when 
indicated. Timely access to residential treatment programs 
enhances overall outcomes, so that the veteran was more likely 
to engage in mental health services and treatment, and maintain 
sobriety.
    MH RRTPs provide care within specialized SUD programs, 
referred to as Domiciliary SUD programs, as well as across the 
full MH RRTP continuum, which includes programs for the 
treatment of post traumatic stress disorder, general mental 
health concerns, and services for homeless veterans.
    These programs have evolved over time to better meet the 
needs of veterans. For example, in 2012 as part of the first 
culture of safety standdown, VA introduced Naloxone as a 
critical tool to prevent overdose deaths. The passage of the VA 
Mission Act of 2018 expanded access to community care, 
furthering transforming veteran care. This law expanded access 
to eligible veterans who can elect to receive care in the 
community in certain situations.
    In October 2020, VA developed the MH RRTP's standardized 
episode of care which made it easier for VA to order 
residential treatment in the community. This has led to 
significant growth in the number of community programs 
providing residential treatment and the number of veterans 
receiving this care.
    To help maintain high quality care for veterans, VA 
requires that residential community care providers maintain 
appropriate credentials, such as by the Commission on 
Accreditation of Rehabilitation Facilities or by the Joint 
Commission.
    As of March 2025, there are over 260 MH RRTP's across 125 
locations providing more than 6,600 operational beds. In fiscal 
year 1924, approximately 32,000 veterans used MH RRTP care with 
97 percent diagnosed with SUD, and over 92 percent with co-
occurring SUD and mental health diagnoses. During the first 
quarter of the current fiscal year, 70 percent of veterans were 
admitted to VA domiciliary care within 20 days.
    Increasing access to community care is a significant 
component of VA's strategy to ensure that veterans have access 
to the care they need. On average, veterans must travel 150 
minutes or more to receive this specialized care, whether 
through VA or through community care.
    For VA to continue to meet the growing need for MH RRTP 
care, we acknowledge that changes are needed to VA's current 
access standards. As a result, VA was proud to support the 
Veterans Access Act of 2025 before the full House Committee on 
Veterans Affairs on February 25, 2025, while ensuring the 
offsets or additional appropriations were provided.
    We are committed to working with Congress and other 
stakeholders to reduce barriers, improve access to the care 
veterans have earned. We want to thank the committee for its 
continued oversight, and we would be happy to answer any 
questions you or other members of the subcommittee may have. 
Thank you.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Maria Llorente Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Ms. Llorente. As my typical 
practice, I will reserve my time until all the other members 
had a chance to ask their questions. I now recognize Ranking 
Member Brownley for 5 minutes for any questions she may have.
    Ms. Brownley. Thank you, Madam Chair. Dr. Wiechers, can you 
tell me how many mental health providers have resigned or 
retired earlier than expected since January 20, 2025?
    Ms. Wiechers. I do not have those numbers in front of me 
for the national set of numbers. No, I do not.
    Ms. Brownley. You know how many.
    Ms. Wiechers. No.
    Ms. Brownley. You just do not have those--that information 
with you.
    Ms. Wiechers. I do not. I do not have that number. It is 
not under the purview of my office.
    Ms. Brownley. Who is purview is it?
    Ms. Wiechers. It would be some information that we would 
have at a facility in a VISN level. I would have to dig in to 
get those numbers for you. I do not have those numbers 
available to me right now.
    Ms. Brownley. Okay. I presume by your answer that mental 
health providers who accepted the so-called fork in the road 
offer, you have the same answer for that as well? You do not 
know the numbers and it is not under your purview.
    Ms. Wiechers. Correct.
    Ms. Brownley. Okay. Dr. Llorente, as you probably gather 
from my questioning in the first panel, you know, I am very 
concerned that VA has not developed a fee schedule for 
residential treatment facilities. You are currently reimbursing 
these providers at much higher rates than industry norms. On 
average, VA has been paying $3,000 per day for this type of 
care. Some providers are getting paid as much as $6,000 a day, 
far more than the average cost of care per day in an Intensive 
Care Unit (ICU).
    I understand that the VA has been looking for sometime to 
establish this fee scheduled and bring its payment rates more 
inline with industry norms. I also understand that VA will have 
to modify its contracts with TriWest and Optum in order to 
implement a new fee schedule. Can you tell me what the status 
of this effort is? When will you have this fee schedule in 
place?
    Ms. Llorente. Yes, ma'am. I am very appreciative actually 
that you asked those questions. It is my understanding that in 
December, this past December, TriWest did establish a policy 
with respect to reimbursements for RRTPs that are within their 
network. I believe that that was in part with what the first 
panelist was referencing. Because those payments are now per 
diem rather than multiple line items, it did make differences 
with respect to the providers in that network.
    In addition to that with respect to Intensive Outpatient 
Programs (IOPs) and Partial Hospitalization Programs (PHPs), 
those fees are now in keeping with Centers for Medicare and 
Medicaid Services (CMS) standards. With respect to Optum, I 
would have to take that question back in order to provide you 
with a more accurate status update.
    Ms. Brownley. Okay. If I understand you correctly you are 
saying that the schedule that the previous witness was 
referring to was possibly a schedule that was--my understanding 
is that it might be a percentage of a cost that is charged or, 
you know, a percentage of what the rate would be rather than, 
here is the rate for this specific, you know, for an hour of 
care, this specific care. It is not explicit and sort of 
complete for everything that possibly these residential 
providers would provide.
    Ms. Llorente. My understanding is it is per diem.
    Ms. Brownley. Okay.
    Ms. Llorente. As opposed to multiple billings.
    Ms. Brownley. Okay.
    Ms. Llorente. I can get you the details, ma'am.
    Ms. Brownley. Okay. Are residential treatment providers 
qualified to provide emergency stabilization care for veterans 
experiencing acute suicidal crisis under the authority provided 
by the Veterans Comprehensive Prevention, Access to Care, and 
Treatment (COMPACT) Act?
    Ms. Llorente. It would have to depend upon the residential 
facility itself. Standalone residential treatment programs, no. 
If the residential treatment program is part of a healthcare 
system that includes an emergency room department with 24/7 
coverage then it could.
    Ms. Brownley. Okay. For standalone providers that do not 
have hospitals or emergency care, the answer is no, correct?
    Ms. Llorente. That is my understanding, yes.
    Ms. Brownley. Is it true that VA has detected a pattern of 
certain community providers admitting veterans for residential 
rehabilitation treatment without VA authorization, and then 
attempting to bill VA for this care under the COMPACT Act?
    Ms. Llorente. I personally do not have detailed information 
of what you are referencing.
    Ms. Brownley. Okay.
    Ms. Llorente. I am more than happy to inquire and get 
information back to you.
    Ms. Brownley. Okay. I will just say that your predecessor 
told both the House and Senate committee staff that that was 
occurring.
    Ms. Llorente. That is entirely possible, ma'am.
    Ms. Brownley. Okay.
    Ms. Llorente. I just do not have firsthand knowledge.
    Ms. Brownley. The Office of Inspector General also issued 
this fraud alert in December 2024 requesting the public's help 
in stopping scams involving substance use disorder treatments. 
Specifically the OIG warned quote, ``Certain drug and alcohol 
rehabilitation facilities or treatment centers are attempting 
to exploit veterans with substance use disorders for profit 
through various unethical and illegal practices.''
    Do you know what the VA is doing to remove bad actors like 
these from the community care program?
    Ms. Llorente. Yes, ma'am, several different things. The 
first is when we do identify concerns with respect to those 
types of practices, we often will reach out to the OIG, request 
an investigation to describe the nature of the concerns that we 
have identified. At the same time, we will also notify the 
Third Party Administrator (TPA) if that particular provider is 
within one of our networks.
    Based on my understanding of how the contracts work, the 
TPA will then conduct an investigation based on the results of 
those investigations. Then, there is typically a back and forth 
with the VA. When findings are substantiated, then those types 
of providers could be removed from our network.
    Ms. Brownley. Okay. It is my understanding that the OIG is 
still investigating some of these issues. You might get some 
results in the near future. I yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Ranking Member Brownley. The 
Chair now recognizes Dr. Dexter for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Dexter. Thank you so much, Madam Chair. Thank you again 
to our panel for being here. I share my Republican colleagues' 
concerns about the veterans access to wait--access to care and 
the wait times they are facing for mental healthcare, substance 
use disorder treatment, and residential rehabilitation 
treatment programs.
    As I shared previously, this is not a specific problem to 
our Veterans Administration facilities. This is a community 
wide problem. In fact, in my district we continue to have far 
too few care providers and far too long of delays, and that is 
not improving. It is getting worse.
    I think it feels like magical thinking when we offer 
proposals to codify additional community care access standards 
when it is abundantly clear that there is not the capacity in 
the community to accept our veterans and get them the urgent 
care that they need.
    I will just state that I believe in controlling the 
controllables. We cannot control outside of the VA, but we can 
control what we are doing within the VA. As Ranking Member 
Brownley pointed out earlier, the VA does not have a set fee 
schedule. That needs to be changed. Clearly paying $6,000 a day 
is egregious and a waste of taxpayer dollars.
    I also think it is not exactly shocking that while 
referrals to inpatient care, including residential treatment, 
made up about 13 percent of the VA's total behavioral health 
referrals to community care providers in Fiscal Year 2021 
through 2023. Those referrals at 13 percent made up nearly 3/4 
of the total expenditures for behavioral community care 
referrals.
    We have a problem. I think we can agree on that. I will 
just state for the record that Dr. Llorente is nodding her 
head.
    Ms. Llorente. Yes, ma'am, agreed.
    Ms. Dexter. I will just ask you. Do you also agree that we 
should be seeking to ensure that veterans are getting proven 
high quality care in all instances as much as possible?
    Ms. Llorente. Yes, ma'am. There is no question about that. 
Veterans deserve the very best care, and we are very proud that 
we are able to demonstrate with studies and research that VA 
delivers that care. Unfortunately, not every VA has that care 
available, and that is where community care can fill a gap.
    Ms. Dexter. Exactly. I absolutely agree that we need to 
make sure that they have that care. I think accreditation 
requirements into community care contracts is important. For 
instance, there is this mind blowing case in South Florida of a 
community care provider that employed patient recruiters to 
give illegal drugs prior to admission to ensure that patients 
were admitted for detox services, which were the most 
expensive. Obviously, none of us want our taxpayer dollars used 
at the harm--doing harm to our veterans.
    Community care standards, fee schedule. I also just wanted 
to ask Dr. Llorente, can you confirm that in late January 
President Trump fired the VA's Inspector General Mike Missal?
    Ms. Llorente. That is what I read in the news, yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Dexter. Yes. We have been talking about the Inspector 
General's office and the importance that they play in 
investigating some of these things. Would you agree that not 
having an inspector general impedes our ability to do that?
    Ms. Llorente. I do not know if I can fully agree with that 
because we continue to engage with the Inspector General's 
office. We continue to participate in investigation inquiries, 
in audits. We receive reports and findings, and really engage 
very collaboratively with the Inspector General's office. That 
work has continued.
    Ms. Dexter. I am so happy to hear that it is continuing, 
and I think it is probably a short term reality that until 
there is some upper level director--in my experience, when 
there is no captain things kind of derail over time. That is 
not a question. You do not have to make a position on that.
    I just want to bring us back to acknowledging that the 
larger context that we are all here to do is make sure our 
veterans are getting the best care possible. Our administration 
has fired veteran staff. It has removed the inspector general. 
We are here talking about spending less money in our budgets 
for the veterans, and we are wasting a lot of that on 
unnecessary expenditures that we have the ability to control.
    I just hope before this committee sends anything to the 
floor that my colleagues and I can work together to address 
this head on and ensure the administration is allowing us to 
inspect things, but also that we are making sure that our 
veterans have access to the best possible care, and that our 
policies reflect that. Thank you, Madam Chair. I yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Ms. Dexter. The Chair now 
recognizes Dr. Morrison for 5 minutes for any questions she 
might have.
    Ms. Morrison. Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate the 
discussion brought forward in this hearing about the importance 
of access to treatment for substance use disorders. It is 
imperative that we care that the care that we offer our 
veterans comes from providers with a demonstrated ability to 
deliver high quality evidence-based care.
    My experience is one of the millions of physicians that has 
trained in a VA facility gave me a firsthand introduction to 
the uniquely specialized care that the VA is able to offer our 
veterans. Achieving the goal of quality while preserving the 
specialized care VA offers requires intentional investment in 
VHA facilities that provide substance use disorder care and 
continual reflection on how providers are meeting veteran 
needs.
    For over 150 years, VA has been committed to providing 
residential care for veterans in need of additional structure 
and support. In 2022, VHA served over 300,000 veterans with 
substance use disorder diagnoses. Thank you, Doctors, both of 
you for being here today.
    In the spirit of understanding the progress VA's made in 
substance use disorder treatment, I have a couple of pretty 
straightforward questions for you, and they really are just yes 
or no questions.
    The first one, has utilization of residential substance use 
disorder treatment programs increased over time?
    Ms. Llorente. Just to clarify, in direct care, community 
care, both?
    Ms. Morrison. Both.
    Ms. Llorente. Short answer is yes.
    Ms. Morrison. Would you agree, Doctor?
    Ms. Llorente. Absolutely, yes.
    Ms. Morrison. Okay, thank you. Next question is, has 
increased capacity in VA's substance use disorder treatment 
programs led to improvements in your ability to provide the 
intensive medical treatment veterans, especially underserved 
groups, increasingly need?
    Ms. Llorente. I would like to ask Dr. Wiechers to answer 
that question.
    Ms. Wiechers. Sure.
    Ms. Morrison. Yes or no.
    Ms. Wiechers. Yes.
    Ms. Morrison. Okay, thank you. Then, last question. Would 
you characterize the educational training and staffing level 
requirements within VA's substance use disorder treatment 
programs to be consistent across your program sites?
    Ms. Wiechers. Yes.
    Ms. Morrison. Okay, thank you very much. VA's commitment to 
developing a cohesive continuum care is indispensable to 
achieving successful outcomes for veterans that find themselves 
at various stages of treatment for substance use disorders.
    I urge my colleagues to recognize the importance of 
supporting the residential substance use disorder treatment 
infrastructure within VHA, investing in expanded VA program 
capacity, and standing against tactics that would undercut 
treating our veterans with the dignity they so rightfully 
deserve. Thank you, Madam Chair. I yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes 
herself for 5 minutes. I would also urge my colleagues to 
recognize the care that comes in the community. The reason why 
the MISSION Act exists is because patients were not getting 
care. Veterans were not getting care. They were not getting 
access. They were waiting. They were dying. They were 
committing suicide. They were overdosing. They were dying of 
fentanyl poisoning.
    As a matter of fact, in this very hearing room when we had 
a hearing on residential care and substance use disorder, prior 
VA officials admitted that they did not think that residential 
care or substance use disorder residential care fell under the 
MISSION Act. It did not matter if the patient waited 30 days, 
100 days, or a year. They still were not going to refer them to 
community care because they did not feel it was under that--
fell under the MISSION Act. This is the VA's own words.
    Dr. Llorente, and I am an ophthalmologist. Not only have I 
worked at VA facilities, not only was my uncle--you know, six 
of the eight kids in my family are veterans. My father is. My 
husband is. My grandfathers are. My uncle was in a residential 
facility at the VA for his entire life when his ship went down 
in the Pacific in World War II. I have done substance use 
disorder and helped to change policies at the State level.
    When a veteran is assessed needing urgent residential care, 
how long do you think they should wait? Are you confident that 
every VA facility applies this same timeline and criteria to 
get that veteran placed, or referred to the community without 
delay?
    Ms. Llorente. Thank you very much for that question. First 
let me say that the national policy is very clear and is 
applicable across the country. The fact that there is 
variability, and a lack of standardization is a problem. There 
is no question about that.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. If the standard is present, then that 
means the culture is not permitting the standard to be met. 
Because the committee continues to hear that policies governing 
residential treatment and community care referrals are 
interpreted differently depending on where a veteran seeks 
care, how is the VA going to ensure that policies are followed 
uniformly?
    Ms. Llorente. Thank you very much. The Secretary has 
initiated a review.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. This would be Secretary Collins?
    Ms. Llorente. Yes, ma'am, has initiated review of policies, 
directives, staffing, organization, structure of multiple 
aspects of the direct care system, as well as multiple aspects 
of the community care system.
    In order to be able to begin to answer the questions that 
you are asking in general, and these are generalities, when you 
have policy and it is just not being carried out, there are 
common reasons for that. Some common reasons is that a policy 
may not be clearly written. The policy may have broad subject 
to interpretation features. It may be that we have simply not 
adequately trained the frontline staff.
    There are a whole list of other reasons in between those 
things. Those are the things that we need to address because 
those are interfering with our ability to provide the access 
that veterans needs to have. It is creating barriers, and in 
some cases it may be creating additional administrative steps.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Dr. Llorente, as I mentioned, we have 
programs like the Gordon Fox Parker Suicide Prevention Grant 
Program. We have buddy systems within our veteran service 
organizations that help veterans to navigate some of these 
things.
    I realize that you are a recent addition, although you have 
cared and done mental health and substance use for a long time. 
How do programs like the Gordon Parker Fox Suicide Prevention 
Grant Program help veterans access mental healthcare services?
    Ms. Llorente. Is that a question you might be able to take 
Dr. Wiechers?
    Ms. Wiechers. Sure. The Fox Grant Program provides grants 
to community organizations for helping to engage veterans that 
do not engage directly with our VA health system. It really 
helps to fill that gap in providing access out in the 
community. There are partners out in the community helping 
engage veterans to reduce their risk for suicide.
    They can also grant--participants can also access care 
through VA when they have become part of one of the programs 
with the grantee.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Let me just say that, you know, I think 
that our VA healthcare system, although I do not utilize it as 
a veteran, nor does my husband, I want to save that for the 
veterans who have most in need and need that access to care.
    Nonetheless I think, you know, our Veterans Administration, 
our hospitals, our programs do a very good job, but they are 
not always there. It is those gaps that we are trying to fill 
and these partnerships, whether they be in the private sector 
in other avenues that we are trying to make sure veterans have 
access to care.
    I think we all want the same thing. I think to continually 
denigrate a provider that is outside the VA, just like 
continually denigrate the VA itself, both of those attitudes 
are inappropriate and wrong because as we have already said, we 
want the highest quality, most effective care.
    Sometimes that is at the VA hospital. Sometimes that is in 
the community because if you cannot get access to care, it does 
not matter how high the quality is. It does not matter how 
effective the program is. If you cannot get access care, you 
have no care. Given that I am in a rural area, our veterans 
like to have access to care when and where they can get it.
    With that, Ranking Member Brownley, would you like to make 
any closing remarks?
    Ms. Brownley. I would. I would indeed. Thank you very much. 
I would just like to say that I agree with my colleagues across 
the aisle that we must ensure that any veteran who is ready to 
seek assistance can be treated unequivocally.
    I am worried that treatment will not be available with the 
clinicians who have either been fired or cannot be recruited. 
We are already understaffed. We need a fee schedule, so the 
community providers will conform to industry norms. We need to 
weed out bad actors and not fire very capable employees within 
the VA.
    For the record one more time, I will say I support 
community care and community care is a critical partner to VA. 
We have got to get it right. I will yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much. I am again going to 
remind this committee as we did several weeks ago that over the 
4-years of the previous administration, there was an increase 
of $126 billion to the VA, an increase of 80,000 employees, 57 
of those full time, 23,000 part time. That as we have heard 
from Secretary Collins, healthcare workers were exempt.
    With that, I would like to thank everyone for their 
participation in today's hearing, and for the great discussions 
we have had on this important topic. I would especially like to 
thank our witnesses and Ms. Jarrott for her very moving 
testimony today, and for having the courage to come forward. I 
want to thank both of our witnesses from the VA, some of whom 
may be new to this process for being here today as well.
    Today's hearing reinforced what we have heard time and time 
again. While there may be very good care to excellent care at 
the VA, veterans do not struggle because the VA lacks funding 
or resources. They struggle because they continue to fall 
through the cracks of a bureaucratic system that is bogged down 
in inefficient processes and inconsistent standards.
    Veterans in crisis cannot afford to wait. I know this 
firsthand and personally. I look forward to working with 
Secretary Collins and the VA to break down barriers preventing 
our veterans from accessing the lifesaving care that they so 
desperately need in their moments of crisis, be it at a VA or 
be it in a community.
    The complete written statements of today's witnesses will 
be entered into the hearing record. I ask unanimous consent 
that all members have five legislative days to revise and 
extend their remarks, and include extraneous material. Hearing 
no objection, so ordered.
    I think the members and the witnesses for their attendance 
and participation today. This hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 4:45 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

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                         A  P  P  E  N  D  I  X

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                    Prepared Statements of Witnesses

                              ----------                              


                  Prepared Statement of Missy Jarrott

    I'm Missy Jarrott, of Savannah, Georgia, and the Mother of Landon 
Holcomb, who tragically lost his life 10 months ago. I'm very grateful 
for your invitation to share my son's story which is condensed due to 
limited time.
    Thank you Chairwoman, Miller-Meeks, and Ranking Member Brownley, 
and all of the members attending today.

    ``If soldiers are going to die, it needs to be at the attempt of an 
enemy, NOT a lack of effort and unorganized antics by the VA. The VA is 
killing our soldiers''

    My son, Landon, who served as an Air Traffic Controller Navy 
Veteran (NAS Jacksonville) several years ago, was struggling to find 
mental health help in a system that completely failed him. Like many 
Veterans, he reached out to the VA for help and support. His first 
consultation with a Provider was on December 4, 2023, however the VA 
did not provide a follow-up visit until April 10, 2024. Landon had 
scheduled visits between this timeframe, however, unfortunately, the VA 
canceled multiple visits denying him the chance to see a Provider who 
specialized in medicine management. Landon tried and tried to keep his 
head up that the VA would follow through. He was experiencing anxiety, 
insomnia, restlessness and mood swings. Landon knew that he needed a 
mood stabilizer. ``Mom, I'm struggling.'' After four unsuccessful 
months, he began to unravel with all of the canceled appointments. He 
became hopeless in the System. He was very emotional. On April 10, he 
visited the Savannah VA Mental Health team who determined that he 
wasn't under distress. Landon said the visit was a ``checklist'', and 
he explained that he had been asking for a psychiatrist (medicine 
management). He was hoping for a better outcome and knew that this 
meant another delay in getting the help he critically needed.

    ``Those that smile the brightest might be fighting a war within''. 
Landon was fighting.

    He came by to see me after this visit. At this point, family and 
friends became involved in searching for a psychiatrist and to no 
avail. We took it upon ourselves to call psychiatrists in the Savannah, 
Bluffton and Hilton Head SC areas. They did not accept military 
insurance, take new patients or charged $300/hr. More stress. Landon 
made numerous calls himself. (Play VOICEMAIL here) On April 19, he 
received a call from the Charleston VA for a Zoom appt. scheduled for 
May 3. He did not make that appointment and passed away on May 2. The 
unthinkable happened. Landon was found in the restroom of a restaurant 
on Hilton Head Island. He had fentanyl in his system. To numb his pain, 
he thought he was taking oxys. Landon did not plan to leave us! He was 
not suicidal. The hopelessness of canceled appointments, feeling 
abandoned and not taken seriously and the emotional spiraling ended his 
life.
    Landon was buried at the Beaufort National Cemetery in SC with U.S. 
Naval Honors on May 13. He leaves behind two beautiful teenagers, a 
loving family and many loving friends. He was a True Patriot who loved 
his country. Help just didn't come soon enough. Mental health is real. 
It can't wait! All Landon asked for was a mental health appointment for 
medicine management. He raised his hand over and over.
    In memory of my 39 year old son who could ``light up a room with 
his infectious smile'', let his voice ``be heard from Heaven above'' 
and on behalf of the Veterans who struggle every day....let's be 
reminded to ``Never leave a soldier behind''. These are our children. 
This is why I'm here today.

    How many more testimoneys is it going to take ``for change''. How 
many?

    May God bless our military serving all over the world and may God 
bless our Veterans and all military families.
GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT


                  Prepared Statement of Michael Urban
GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT




               Prepared Statement of Shankar Yalamanchili

    Good afternoon. Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano and 
distinguished members of the Subcommittee Thank you for having me here 
to testify this morning. I am honored and privileged to be here and 
serve the country. I am Dr. Shankar Yalamanchili, my friends and 
colleagues call me Dr. Chili. I'm a psychiatrist with over 20 years of 
experience in working to improve mental healthcare efficiency and 
accessibility. I'm testifying here today to discuss how we can improve 
patient care while increasing efficiencies in mental health services in 
Veteran's Affairs Hospitals by allowing the VA to contract with private 
physician groups, when appropriate.
    After completing my residency and fellowship in psychiatry, I began 
working at the Veterans' Affairs (VA) hospitals in Montgomery and 
Tuskegee in 2005. While working there, I became frustrated with the 
inefficiencies that were interfering with my ability to treat patients, 
so I transitioned to Community Mental Health Centers. These centers 
allowed me the flexibility to improve operations, although financial 
mismanagement later destabilized the system. Through my experience in 
both systems, I recognize the national scale of these financial and 
efficiency issues and the effect on proper patient care. This led me to 
create sustainable solutions that would improve patient care while 
making the system more efficient.
    Today, I lead River Region Psychiatry Associates (RRPA), a multi-
state psychiatric practice designed to bring care directly to patients 
where they live, rather than having to travel long distances. At RRPA 
and our owned outpatient delivery system, Ally Psychiatry, we emphasize 
a holistic approach that focuses on treating patients' underlying 
issues and thoughtfully incorporating families, when necessary, to 
develop manageable and successful treatment plans. In 2024, Ally 
Psychiatry now operates in 51 clinics across nine states, employs 68 
physicians, over 150 nurse practitioners and physicians, which allows 
us to see over 115,000 patients.
    RRPA's inpatient presence spans 55 inpatient facility locations 
across 7 states (specifically Alabama, Tennessee, Missouri, Georgia, 
Mississippi, South Carolina, and North Carolina), in hospitals, 
emergency departments, jails, community health centers and more. In 
2024, RRPA managed more than 1,000 inpatient facility beds, served more 
than 48,000 patients (about twice the seating capacity of Madison 
Square Garden), and completed more than 400,000 patients (about half 
the population of Delaware) visits/encounters.
    Our doctors also provide the highest qualities of care. We provide 
professional ethics and new innovation training, we have high standards 
for different levels of care (intake, crisis treatments, and then 
stable patient continuing care) and we believe in holistic care that 
uses the newest technology and engages families, rather than simply 
prescribing unnecessary medications. We also rigorously comply with all 
of the State and Federal regulations and standards. If we are not 
providing excellent patient care, we won't succeed.
    Unfortunately, the one area where we are not able to expand our 
patient care and services is where it is needed the most - VA 
hospitals. It is critical for U.S. veterans to have stable and 
qualified healthcare providers. An estimated 41 percent of veterans are 
in need of mental health care programs every year, and the VA provided 
over 1.7 million Veterans mental health services in 2024. Mental health 
issues and suicide among veterans are prevalent and complicated 
problems to sufficiently address, but we need to be more proactive and 
provide consistent treatment. Roughly 17 veterans die by suicide each 
day, according to a 2022 report by the VA and fewer than 50 percent of 
returning veterans in need receive any mental health treatment.
    Mental health services are just one area where patients are 
struggling to receive timely and consistent care. In general, VA 
hospital average wait times can be anywhere from a few days to a few 
months for needed care, and then appointments are often canceled at the 
last minute. Congress and the Administration recognized the need for 
more providers and they implemented the CHOICE Program, now VCCP, which 
provides opportunities for veterans to seek care from private, non-VA 
or Department of Defense doctors through ``community care'' providers. 
This allows veterans who need services not offered by the VA 
automatically or veterans who live in a State without a full-service VA 
facility, such as New Hampshire, Alaska, or Hawaii. However, the 
current system does not allow VA hospitals to contract directly with 
private physician practice organizations to address situations where 
veterans are underserved or forced into the lengthy waits by the VA due 
to staffing shortages and physician availability. Additionally, while 
the Community Care Network's (CCN) intended benefit of faster care, 
more access, and patient choice, are often undermined by red tape, 
payment issues, and poor coordination. Veterans end up waiting longer, 
juggling providers, or getting denied care, while private doctors are 
frustrated and leave the network. As the Committee heard yesterday, 
there can also be issues with consistency in patient data between 
community care and the VA. By allowing VA hospitals to partner with 
physician staffing groups, they will be able to provide enhanced access 
to consistent, reliable, and continuing quality care for our veterans 
and consistency in patient data. This will, in turn, extend 
availability from big cities, and provide some relief to CCN networks, 
to bring these critical services to the smaller rural communities in a 
timelier manner.
    Improving the health and well-being of our veterans who have served 
this Nation requires a collaboration between public and non-profit 
mental health providers. It is imperative that we increase the 
availability of mental health services and professionals for all 
veterans, and I believe that practices like mine can help achieve this. 
This includes encouraging more community-based services AND allowing 
private physician groups to provide services to the VA.
    In addition to the long wait times due in large part to shortage of 
key staff at the VA, which result in delays in care, there are also 
high overhead expenses. While the VA has met their own hiring 
initiatives designed to increase the number of inpatient and outpatient 
mental health providers, they continue to face challenges in hiring 
adequate mental health staff to meet the full demand for services (GAO, 
2015). The GAO cites pay disparities with the private sector, 
competition between VA medical centers (VAMCs) to fill positions, 
lengthy hiring processes, a lack of space for new hires, a lack of 
sufficient support staff, and a nationwide shortage of mental health 
professionals as reasons why the vacancies are going unfilled. 
Practices like mine can help solve these issues.
    When comparing the current state of the VA mental health workforce 
with private enterprise health groups, significant improvement in both 
patient care and efficiency is seen. For example, private health groups 
can staff a VA hospital so that twice as many patients can be seen, and 
that there are doctors available Monday-Friday, with weekend 
availability, and on-call 24 hours a day. Importantly, when hospitals 
contract the doctors out, there is a decreased per-patient cost of 
treatment while maintaining quality, value-based care and a decrease in 
the overall infrastructure costs while working with existing VA best 
practices and meeting VA quality metrics. In my practices, we use all 
the tools at our disposal. We evaluate patients using assessment tools 
in addition to talking to patients and their loved ones and previous 
providers because understanding past failures is essential to therapy 
going forward. We utilize community resources including religious 
institutions and groups such as AA, Alzheimer's foundation, and disease 
specific associations, and we empower patients to sustain lifelong 
stability with focus being able to get back to work and relationships. 
No one's disability should define them. Finally, all of the doctors in 
our practices train and collaborate with each other.
    We must improve where and how our veterans receive care and ensure 
that it is scalable, affordable, and patient centered. While veterans 
Community Care Programs may work well for very specific, targeted 
treatments over short durations of time, the gap remains for the 
sustainable and chronic care treatment model, which requires a higher 
level of continuity of care than can currently be offered through 
Community Care Networks, especially in the mental health space.
    To decrease cost to taxpayers, and improve efficiency and access to 
care, we propose that the VA ALSO contract with local private 
enterprise providers who can see VA patients in their clinics. The 
existing Community Care Network model is designed to meet episodic 
(time-limited) problems and short-term needs. While important, this 
leaves a gap specific to chronic care, which requires a higher level of 
continuity of treatment than can currently be offered through Community 
Care Networks. That is why we also propose a permanent public/private 
partnership that utilizes the resources of the VA with defined support 
from private enterprise (e.g., private practices). Support models can 
be tailored to meet the needs of individual VA facilities and 
communities.
    This is not without precedence. There are currently two pilot 
projects underway in three states that could serve as models for a 
program. First, there is a VA-Private Telehealth Partnership Pilot in 
rural Montana and Alaska where VA facilities are sparse. Under this 
project, funded through the VA Office of Rural Health (ORH) grants and 
CARES Act telehealth expansion funds, the VA contracted with private 
telepsychiatry groups to deliver care via VA-provided telehealth 
platforms. The result has been that Veterans were seen faster and often 
in non-clinical community settings (like local libraries or community 
centers) with VA-trained facilitators. Wait times went from 60+ days to 
under 14 days for mental health appointments and there was high 
satisfaction among veterans, especially those hesitant to visit VA 
clinics due to stigma.
    In Texas, under a State grant, several private psychiatric groups 
were brought into VA's Community Care Network, but the difference was 
they received dedicated liaisons and fast-track credentialing from the 
VA. A shared portal was created for scheduling and communication, 
avoiding usual CCN bottlenecks. This resulted in 80 percent faster 
referral-to-appointment time compared to standard CCN clinics and 
providers stayed in the network longer due to faster reimbursement and 
reduced paperwork.
    I can also envision a model where the VA continues to manage robust 
inpatient services, while then transitioning veteran's outpatient care 
to an identified partner who has established a care network in that 
market/region. To ensure a seamless care transition, the partner 
practice would utilize the VA's EMR while managing the patient's care. 
This will allow for seamless patient health information management 
including collaborating with VA care management teams.
    It would also be possible to have the private enterprise partner 
provide facility enterprise coverage for the VA community. This 
potential solution would make access to care easier and improves the 
quality of care for the veteran community while driving down the cost 
of that care as funded by the taxpayer and increasing its all-around 
value. VA contracting with local, private providers who can safely, 
securely, provide quality service based on VA quality measures in areas 
where there are provider shortages could be game changing for 
vulnerable Veterans. We will see our valued veterans in our clinics 
closest to their homes along with the rest of the community. Utilizing 
our existing efficient practices in place we can see a thousand more 
encounters per provider per year. This could be a $50,000 reduction, on 
average, in cost per provider per year, in my opinion.
    The public/private partnership model is mutually beneficial to both 
physicians and patients. These models I presented could reduce costs by 
20 percent-30 percent while expanding patient capacity by the same 
margin and outperforming traditional VA and community mental health 
systems. At RRPA, we have found that when hospitals contract with us, 
there is also a 20 percent reduction in emergency department visits, a 
25 percent decrease in inpatient length of stay, and a 15 percent 
reduction in readmittance. As a private company, we're not successful 
if the patient care and efficiencies don't make a meaningful 
difference.
    We strongly support the VA's mission to best serve veterans who 
have borne the battle with honor, and it would be our privilege to help 
improve their mental health care.

                                 

                  Prepared Statement of Maria Llorente

    Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member Brownley, and other Members 
of the Subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity today to discuss the 
provision of residential substance use disorder (SUD) treatment through 
VA's Mental Health Residential Rehabilitation Treatment Programs (MH 
RRTP) and community care residential treatment programs. Joining me 
here today is Dr. Ilse Wiechers, Deputy Director, Office of Mental 
Health, VHA.

Introduction

    VA's MH RRTPs are a critical component of VA's broader efforts to 
address the needs of Veterans with substance use concerns. The MH RRTPs 
provide care within specialized SUD residential programs, referred to 
as Domiciliary SUD programs, as well as across the full MH RRTP 
continuum, which includes programs for the treatment of posttraumatic 
stress disorder, general mental health concerns, and services for 
homeless Veterans. In fact, more than 95 percent of Veterans served 
within the MH RRTPs have a SUD diagnosis, and all programs provide 
treatment for SUD either as the primary treatment or concurrently with 
other services.
    Innovation has been a priority within MH RRTPs, focused on ensuring 
the provision of high-quality care that is responsive to Veterans' 
needs. For example, in 2012, MH RRTPs moved quickly to implement 
procedures to prevent fatal overdoses with the first Culture of Safety 
Stand Down launched in November 2012 and the introduction of naloxone 
as a critical tool. VA also established clear expectations to support 
access to life-saving medications for the treatment of opioid use 
disorder.
    The enactment of the VA Maintaining Internal Systems and 
Strengthening Integrated Outside Networks Act of 2018 (VA MISSION Act 
of 2018) (P.L. 115-182) further transformed the landscape of Veteran 
care by expanding access to community care options. This law expanded 
access to eligible Veterans to elect to receive care in the community 
in certain situations. In October 2020, VA developed the MH RRTP 
Standardized Episode of Care, which made it easier for VA to order 
residential treatment in the community. This has led to significant 
growth in the number of community programs providing residential 
treatment and the number of Veterans receiving this care. To help 
maintain high quality care for Veterans, VA requires residential 
community care providers to maintain appropriate credentials, such as 
by Commission on Accreditation of Rehabilitation Facilities or by Joint 
Commission.

Improvements in MH RRTP

    In the past few years, VA has expanded MH RRTP care. As of March 
25, 2025, there are more than 260 MH RRTPs across 125 locations of 
care, with more than 6,600 operational beds. These programs provide 
integrated, concurrent treatment for co-occurring SUD and mental health 
treatment needs, ensuring comprehensive care for Veterans. During 
Fiscal Year (FY) 2024, around 32,000 Veterans utilized VA's MH RRTP 
care with just over 25,000 receiving care at a VA-operated facility and 
the remaining Veterans receiving care from community providers.
    During Fiscal Year 2024, 97 percent of Veterans served across all 
MH RRTPs, had an SUD diagnosis, and more than 92 percent had a co-
occurring SUD and mental health diagnosis. Recognizing the importance 
of ensuring access to residential SUD treatment, VA has increased 
access through the addition of new Domiciliary SUD programs with four 
programs opening in 2024 and additional programs expected to open this 
year. VA's commitment to providing timely access to care is evident and 
has been a priority focus area over the last several years. During the 
first quarter of Fiscal Year 2025, 70 percent of Veterans were admitted 
to VA Domiciliary care within 20 days. The average wait time for 
Veteran admission for VA MH RRTP in Fiscal Year 2024 was 17.1 days.
    VA also emphasizes the critical role of community care in expanding 
access to residential treatment. When Veterans are eligible and elect 
to receive such care, referrals to community providers help address 
gaps in specialized residential treatment programs that may not be 
available within VA. By leveraging both VA's continuum of programs 
within regions and programs in the community, VA ensures that Veterans 
can access residential treatment as close to home as possible. On 
average, Veterans must travel 150 minutes or more to receive this 
specialized care, whether through VA or community care.

Leveraging Community Care to Maximize Access

    Increasing access to community care is a significant component of 
VA's strategy to ensure Veterans have access to the care they need. The 
VA MISSION Act of 2018, its implementing regulations, and subsequent 
laws and policies have facilitated this expansion by allowing eligible 
Veterans to receive care in the community. For VA to continue to meet 
the growing need for MH RRTP care, we acknowledge that changes are 
needed to VA's current access standards. As a result, VA was proud to 
support the Veterans' Assuring Critical Care Expansions to Support 
Servicemembers (ACCESS) Act of 2025 before the full House Committee on 
Veterans' Affairs on February 25, 2025, while ensuring the offsets or 
additional appropriations are provided. We are committed to working 
with Congress and other stakeholders to reduce barriers and improve 
access to the care Veterans have earned.

Conclusion

    We want to thank the Committee for its continued oversight. This 
concludes my statement. We would be happy to answer any questions you 
or other Members of the Subcommittee may have.

                       Statements for the Record

                              ----------                              


     Prepared Statement of American Academy of Physician Associates

    Dear Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, Subcommittee Chairwoman 
Miller-Meeks, Subcommittee Ranking Member Brownley, and Members of the 
Committee:

    On behalf of the more than 168,000 physician associates/physician 
assistants (PAs) throughout the United States and the more than 2,500 
PAs currently employed full-time by the U.S. Department of Veterans 
Affairs (VA), the American Academy of Physician Associates (AAPA) 
thanks the Committee for your commitment to ensuring veterans have 
timely access to urgent mental health care, substance use disorder 
treatment, and residential rehabilitation treatment programs. AAPA 
appreciates the opportunity to submit comments for the record on the 
Committee's March 25 hearing on Breaking Down Barriers: Getting 
Veterans ACCESS to Lifesaving Care.
    PAs are licensed clinicians who practice medicine in every 
specialty and setting at the VA, and throughout America. PAs diagnose 
illness, develop and manage treatment plans, manage their own patient 
panels, and often serve as a patient's primary healthcare provider. PAs 
practice medicine in every State, the District of Columbia, and all 
U.S. territories. Scope of practice for PAs is determined by their 
education and experience, State law, facility policy, and the needs of 
patients. Studies reinforce that PAs provide high-quality care, and 
patients have consistently indicated high-levels of satisfaction with 
PAs, comparable with care delivered by physicians.\1\ Patients have 
also already demonstrated confidence and trust in the PA profession by 
indicating the type of health professional who provides care is less 
important than when they obtain access to quality care.\2\ The VA is 
also the largest employer of PAs.
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    \1\  Hooker RS, Moloney-Johns AJ, McFarland MM. Patient 
satisfaction with physician assistant/associate care: an international 
scoping review. Hum Resour Health. 2019 Dec 27;17(1):104.
    \2\ Dill MJ, Pankow S, Erikson C, Shipman S. Survey Shows Consumers 
Open To A Greater Role For Physician Assistants And Nurse 
Practitioners. Health Affairs. 2013 Jun; 32 (6).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    PAs at the VA are critical to the Committee's work toward better 
access to care. We agree with the goals of the Veterans' Assuring 
Critical Care Expansions to Support Servicemembers Act of 2025 (ACCESS 
Act) to reduce bureaucratic barriers to access to care for veterans, 
and with Chairwoman Miller-Meeks's emphasis on VA's goal of there being 
``no wrong door'' at the VA for veterans seeking care.
    However, language in the ACCESS Act may inadvertently overlook the 
importance of the increased access to care PAs can provide. 
Specifically, Section 203, Improvements to Department of Veterans 
Affairs Mental Health Residential Rehabilitation Treatment Program, 
includes the following among the assessments of providers' quality of 
care delivered required of the Secretary of the VA:

      (3) the ratio of licensed independent practitioners per 
resident;

      (4) the rate of completion of training on military 
cultural competence by licensed independent practitioners...

    AAPA recommends that ``licensed independent practitioners'' be 
replaced with ``licensed practitioners'' to ensure that these 
assessments of quality do not inadvertently exclude PAs. In other 
contexts, some hospital administrators and personnel have been confused 
as to whether PAs were included among those professionals who 
authorized to order certain care due to the word ``independent'' 
appearing in regulatory language. However, the term ``licensed 
independent practitioner'' is a phrase that is not used in the Social 
Security Act or commonly used in any Federal statute. ``Independence'' 
is not a measure of a healthcare professional's educational 
preparation, competency, or ability to provide quality medical care. 
Eliminating this term, which has limited the ability of PAs to deliver 
needed care to patients, supports patient access to care, moves further 
toward a team-based healthcare delivery model and recognizes the need 
to fully utilize the healthcare workforce.
    In fact, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) 
removed this confusing language in a 2019 regulation which also 
prompted the Joint Commission to make the same change to conform with 
CMS.\3\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ AAPA. Joint Commission Removes ``Licensed Independent 
Practitioner'' Term from Restraint and Seclusion Standards. 2020.
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    AAPA thanks the committee for the opportunity to submit this 
recommendation and for your ongoing dedication to the health of our 
Nation's veterans. We are committed to working with Congress to advance 
our shared mission of improving access to health care for veterans. If 
we can be of assistance on this or any issue, please do not hesitate to 
contact Tate Heuer, AAPA Vice President, Federal Advocacy, at 
[email protected].

  Prepared Statement of National Association for Behavioral Healthcare
GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT