[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                      ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES:
                      EVALUATING VA COMMUNITY CARE

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                         SUBCOMMITTEE ON HEALTH

                                 OF THE

                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                      WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 2025

                               __________

                            Serial No. 119-5

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
       
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]       


                    Available via http://govinfo.gov
                    
                                __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
60-668                     WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
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                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman

AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking 
    American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman      Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               JULIA BROWNLEY, California
NANCY MACE, South Carolina           CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa       SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina        Florida
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin         MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas               DELIA RAMIREZ, Illinois
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois
KEITH SELF, Texas                    TIMOTHY M. KENNEDY, New York
JEN KIGGANS, Virginia                MAXINE DEXTER, Oregon
ABE HAMADEH, Arizona                 HERB CONAWAY, New Jersey
KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern       KELLY MORRISON, Minnesota
    Mariana Islands
TOM BARRETT, Michigan

                       Jon Clark, Staff Director
                  Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director

                         SUBCOMMITTEE ON HEALTH

               MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa, Chairwoman

JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               JULIA BROWNLEY, California, 
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina        Ranking Member
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin         SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
JEN KIGGANS, Virginia                    Florida
ABE HAMADEH, Arizona                 MAXINE DEXTER, Oregon
KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern       HERB CONAWAY, New Jersey
    Mariana Islands                  KELLY MORRISON, Minnesota

Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public 
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also 
published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the 
official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare 
both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process 
of converting between various electronic formats may introduce 
unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the 
current publication process and should diminish as the process is 
further refined.
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                      WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 2025

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

The Honorable Mariannette Miller-Meeks, Chairwoman...............     1
The Honorable Julia Brownley, Ranking Member.....................     3

                               WITNESSES
                                Panel I

Dr. Steven Braverman, Chief Operating Officer, Veterans Health 
  Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs............     5

        Accompanied by:

    Dr. Sachin Yende, Chief Medical Officer for Integrated 
        Veteran Care, Veterans Health Administration, U.S. 
        Department of Veterans Affairs

Ms. Sharon Silas, Director, Health Care Team, Government 
  Accountability Office..........................................     6

Dr. Julie Kroviak, Principal Deputy Assistant Inspector General, 
  Office of Healthcare Inspections, Office of the Inspector 
  General, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs...................     8

                                Panel II

Dr. Scott Kruger, Physician, Virginia Oncology Associates........    27

Mr. Dave McIntyre, President and CEO, TriWest Healthcare Alliance    29

Mr. Ed Weinberg, President and CEO, OptumServe...................    31

Mr. Chris Faraji, President, Wellhive............................    32

                                APPENDIX
                    Prepared Statements Of Witnesses

Dr. Steven Braverman Prepared Statement..........................    47
Ms. Sharon Silas Prepared Statement..............................    50
Dr. Julie Kroviak Prepared Statement.............................    74
Dr. Scott Kruger Prepared Statement..............................    86
Mr. Dave McIntyre Prepared Statement.............................    89
Mr. Ed Weinberg Prepared Statement...............................    92
Mr. Chris Faraji Prepared Statement..............................    97

                       Statements For The Record

The American Legion Prepared Statement...........................   107
Document for the Record Submitted by Abe Hamadeh.................   110

 
                      ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES:
                      EVALUATING VA COMMUNITY CARE

                              ----------                              


                      WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 2025

                    Subcommittee on Health,
                    Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                             U.S. House of Representatives,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:17 p.m., in 
room 360, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Mariannette 
Miller-Meeks [chairwoman of the subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Miller-Meeks, Bost, Bergman, 
Murphy, Van Orden, Kiggans, Hamadeh, King-Hinds, Brownley, 
Takano, Cherfilus-McCormick, Conaway, and Morrison.

   OPENING STATEMENT OF MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, CHAIRWOMAN

    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Good afternoon. This oversight hearing 
for the Subcommittee on Health will now come to order.
    It is not often in Washington, DC, you start very early in 
the morning shoveling snow, but thank you all for making it 
despite the snow.
    I understand this hearing focused on community care has 
garnered significant member interest, including from committee 
members who are not on my Health Subcommittee. Before we get 
started, in accordance with committee rule 5(e), I ask 
unanimous consent that all off-subcommittee members be 
permitted to participate in today's committee hearing.
    Without objection, so ordered.
    As a 24-year Army veteran and a healthcare provider, I have 
seen firsthand the struggles our veterans face in accessing the 
care they have earned. I have also experienced the challenges 
providers encounter when trying to deliver the care.
    Let me make two things perfectly clear at the start of 
today's hearing. Veterans should never have to fight through a 
maze of bureaucracy to get the healthcare they deserve, and 
providers should not be bogged down by administrative hurdles 
just to serve them. These two statements should not be 
considered partisan.
    This subcommittee has received multiple reports regarding 
delayed referrals, canceled appointments, lack of 
reimbursement, and long wait times for treatment that should be 
available much sooner. These are not isolated incidents. These 
are systemic failures that have real harmful impacts on the 
everyday lives of veterans.
    Let me also say that I know that the U.S. Department of 
Veterans Affairs (VA) is working very hard and very diligently 
to serve our veterans and to remedy these incidents, and it is 
why today's hearing is so important. Today is our follow up to 
our previous full committee hearing where we heard directly 
from veterans and their families about the barriers they 
experienced in accessing community care.
    With the new administration comes new opportunities. Under 
the leadership of Secretary Collins, I have total confidence 
that the VA will course correct the failures of the previous 
administration to protect healthcare access for veterans.
    In our last hearing, we saw attempts by some members to 
shift the failures of the Biden-Harris administration to third-
party administrators and providers. There was also yet another 
attempt to propagate the myth that Republicans want to 
privatize VA. Let me once again address this falsehood and 
state the position I share with Chairman Bost: Community care 
is VA care. It is designed to supplement VA's direct care 
system, not replace it.
    The purpose of today's hearing is to provide a refresher on 
the roles and responsibilities of the outside providers who are 
responsible for administering the community care program (CCP) 
so that all members of the committee can refocus efforts on 
holding the right people accountable. This is about making sure 
the community care program works for veterans, not for 
bureaucrats in Washington, DC.
    Let me spell out who is responsible for one. Third-party 
administrators are tasked with building provider networks and 
paying claims for services rendered by community care 
providers. Third-party administrators do not determine 
veterans' eligibility for community care. They do not authorize 
referrals, and they do not manage the transfer of medical 
records between VA facilities and community providers. Those 
responsibilities belong to the VA. When the VA fails to 
authorize referrals in a timely manner or delays sending the 
necessary documentation, veterans are the ones that suffer.
    We have heard countless stories from veterans who have 
waited months for care because their referrals were stuck in 
the system or who received approval for care just prior to the 
expiration of that care, veterans who have had to navigate 
confusing and inconsistent communication because the VA, not 
the outside providers, cannot get it together.
    One of those veterans is my constituent, Mr. Terry 
Barngrover, a Vietnam veteran battling blood cancer. I would 
like to take a moment to describe Terry's community care 
experience in his own words. ``They just expect us to know all 
the rules. No one answers the phone or returns calls. We get 
the feeling the VA does all of this extra work so we will give 
up and not use the VA at all.'' Just last night and this 
morning, I had a veteran in my community text me about his 
experience at the VA with a urinary tract infection caused by a 
kidney stone.
    We cannot allow these issues to persist. Veterans like 
Terry and the veterans we all heard from a few weeks ago in 
this room deserve better. They deserve a system that works for 
them, not against them. That is my number one priority from my 
seat as the chairwoman.
    Today, we will hear from VA officials and stakeholders 
about the steps they are taking to improve the administration 
of community care and ensure that the program operates 
sufficiently and effectively so veterans can get the care they 
need without unnecessary delays.
    Thank you all for being here today. I look forward to 
hearing from our witnesses on how they can improve the VA 
Community Care Program for the veterans who rely upon it.
    With that, I yield to Ranking Member Brownley for her 
opening statement. The chair recognizes Ranking Member 
Brownley.

      OPENING STATEMENT OF JULIA BROWNLEY, RANKING MEMBER

    Ms. Brownley. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I am glad the 
subcommittee is holding this hearing today. Prior to last 
month, neither the committee nor the subcommittee had held an 
oversight hearing on community care since July 2022, nearly 3 
years ago when Democrats held the majority.
    I want to acknowledge and make clear at the outset that 
there will always be a place for community care. VA cannot 
provide all the care our veterans need on its own. This is 
especially true for women veterans needing specialized women's 
health and maternity care.
    Community care is an important part of the healthcare that 
VA provides. Finding the right balance is important, and I am 
concerned that we have not yet found that balance.
    Today, I expect we will hear some of my colleagues on the 
other side of the aisle say that VA is restricting veterans' 
access to community care, but veterans are now receiving more 
than 40 percent of their care in the community versus only 
about 23 percent in the year before the John S. McCain III, 
Daniel K. Akaka, and Samuel R. Johnson VA Maintaining Internal 
Systems and Strengthening Integrated Outside Networks (MISSION) 
Act was implemented. Spending on community care has risen 
sharply over that period of time, ballooning to what some have 
argued is an unsustainable amount. Yet, in all that time, 
particularly over the last 2 years, our committee and this 
subcommittee have conducted limited oversight in one of the 
most significantly growing segments of the VA's budget.
    VA is on track to spend $42 billion on community care 
referrals this fiscal year. That should not be a surprising 
number to everyone in this room, as more and more veterans are 
referred to community care every single year. It should be 
shocking to everyone here that VA is sending that much money 
out of the door every year to a community care network (CCN) 
over which VA and this committee have devoted very little 
oversight.
    As we will hear from our Office of Inspector General (OIG) 
and Government Accountability Office (GAO) witnesses, there are 
numerous weaknesses in VA's oversight over the performance of 
its third-party administrators Optum and TriWest. These 
contractors who we will hear from on the second panel have 
contracts with VA worth tens of billions of dollars. Yet our 
witnesses from GAO and OIG have detailed in many, many reports 
that VA needs to perform additional oversight about how they 
are maintaining their provider networks and whether--and 
whether their providers are properly coordinating veterans care 
with the VA.
    Worse still, we do not even know whether patients that are 
referred to the community are receiving more timely access to 
care or even high-quality care in the community. We do not know 
because VA has not established sufficient contractual 
requirements and metrics through--through with it--through with 
it can hold its contractors accountable.
    Three weeks ago at a full committee hearing, my colleagues 
and I had the chance to hear from veterans who had difficulties 
accessing community care. Unfortunately, the limited witness 
list and hasty organization of that hearing meant that we did 
not get a chance to hold VA or the third-party administrators 
accountable for these failures, nor did we have a chance to 
discuss them with the experts at GAO and OIG who have done some 
excellent work to find room for improvement in the community 
care program.
    I am glad we have you all here today.
    As I said at the hearing 3 weeks ago, I think there is 
absolutely room to improve the coordination of community care. 
On Monday, GAO published a report about this very topic, one 
that I requested, along with some Democratic colleagues of 
mine.
    GAO found that there is inconsistency and variation across 
facilities in terms of how long it takes to schedule 
appointments and that VA lacks a comprehensive national policy 
that clearly defines roles and responsibilities for local 
facilities. We are rapidly hurdling ahead toward a legislative 
hearing and a markup on Chairman Bost's community care 
legislation beginning less than 2 weeks from now. My colleagues 
and I have many questions about the current state of community 
care that I am not sure can all be answered in this one 
subcommittee hearing.
    I am also concerned that Chairman Bost's bill would--could 
exasperate existing challenges in VA community care rather than 
equipping VA with the resources it needs to properly operate 
the community care program we already have.
    This committee, and the health subcommittee in particular, 
has an obligation to conduct robust oversight over the 
healthcare that VA is providing, including through its 
community care program. I am concerned that the committee's 
current level of oversight is not sufficient for us to move 
straight to legislating.
    While this hearing today is an important opportunity to 
hear directly from VA, Optum, and TriWest, I sincerely urge my 
colleagues to consider what additional oversight is needed to 
inform our legislative efforts.
    With that, I thank you, and I yield back, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Ranking Member Brownley.
    The chair would also like to acknowledge that the chair of 
the full committee, Chairman Bost, is here with us today, and 
we will hear from him later.
    I would now like to introduce the Panel I witnesses 
testifying before us today.
    We have Dr. Steven Braverman, chief operating officer of 
the Veterans Health Administration (VHA) at the Department of 
Veterans Affairs. Accompanying Dr. Braverman representing the 
Department of Veterans Affairs is Dr. Sachin Yende, chief 
medical officer, Office of Integrated Veteran Care. Also with 
us today is Sharon Silas, director of Health Care for the 
Government Accountability Office, and Dr. Julie Kroviak, 
principal deputy assistant inspector general (IG) for the 
Healthcare Inspections for the VA's Office of Inspector 
General.
    Dr. Braverman, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to 
deliver your opening statement.

                 STATEMENT OF STEVEN BRAVERMAN

    Dr. Braverman. Okay. Thank you. Before I get started, I 
just want to apologize up front for any coughing or sneezing 
that occurs during the discussion, but I thought it was really 
important to be here with you today.
    I want to recognize Chairman Bost for joining us.
    Good afternoon, Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member 
Brownley, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for 
inviting me here today to discuss the Department of Veterans 
Affairs Community Care Program. I am accompanied by Dr. Sachin 
Yende, chief medical officer of the Office of Integrated 
Veteran Care, or IVC.
    It is an honor to be here representing the Veterans Health 
Administration for the first time as its inaugural chief 
operating officer. I am responsible for ensuring we continue to 
live up to the standard the veterans expect and deserve by 
overseeing operations for VA's 18 Veterans Integrated Service 
Networks, or VISNs, and providing executive leadership and 
oversight to 34 program offices within the Offices of 
Integrated Veterans Care, patient care services, and clinical 
services.
    It is a great responsibility, and I bring to bear the same 
philosophy I have shared with my teams as a leader in the Army 
and VA, a philosophy I call the four Cs to Success. They are 
communication, care of the veteran, customer service, and 
common sense.
    Over the last decade, our system has been faced with many 
challenges. Following my Army retirement, I joined the Edward 
Hines, Jr. VA Hospital as its director in 2016. Frustrations 
with veteran access to care were at a peak and employee morale 
was low. Employing those four Cs to success, we worked hard to 
implement the changes necessary to boost morale while keeping 
veteran care at the core of every decision we made.
    The 2018 MISSION Act passed by this committee gave us the 
authority to put processes in place to ensure veterans had 
access to timely appropriate care in the community when VA was 
unable to provide it in our direct care system. Since the 
MISSION Act became law, VA has referred over 5.4 million unique 
veterans to community care providers, encompassing more than 
228 million community care appointments. As with the 
implementation of any law, we have had to make systemic 
improvements to ensure timely access and build veterans' trust 
in our system.
    While serving as the director of the VA Greater Los Angeles 
Healthcare System, we hired and trained dedicated staff for 
referring and appointing veterans into community care. We 
piloted the VA's initial tele-emergency medicine initiative 
that enabled most veterans to be evaluated without costly 
emergency room visits and receive appropriate follow on 
specialty outpatient referrals as needed. It is now a national 
program.
    During my time as the VISN 22 director, the Phoenix VA 
became a model for the referral coordination initiative, a 
nurse-led effort to connect veterans eligible for community 
care with the right provider for his or her needs.
    With implementation of the Sergeant First Class Heath 
Robinson Honoring our Promise to Address Comprehensive Toxics 
(PACT) Act, demand on the VA has never been greater. Since the 
law took effect, nearly 900,000 veterans have enrolled in VA 
care, with even more moving into higher priority groups due in 
part to the resulting increase in service-connected disability 
ratings. The corresponding elimination of copays and increased 
eligibility for additional medical services led to more 
reliance on VA care that cannot be met in the direct care 
system alone.
    I can confidently say that we could not meet veteran demand 
without the partnership and collaboration among our third-party 
administrators and community care providers. Still, challenges 
remain with care coordination and the veteran and provider 
experience within the community care program.
    A recent series of OIG inspections of VISN's community care 
programs, including my former network, identified several 
similar findings and recommendations. Those included 
strengthening community care oversight councils, scanning of 
care documents into veterans' electronic health records and 
referrals, and timely processing of follow-up requests for 
services. Based on these findings, IVC leaders, VISN directors, 
and VHA's Office of Integrity and Compliance are working 
together to execute consistent action plans across the country 
to address OIG's recommendations.
    Prior to joining the VA, I served 29 years as a physiatrist 
in the Army Medical Corps in both academic and operational 
leadership roles. As an Army retiree, a Federal employee, and a 
deployed veteran, I have multiple options for my healthcare. I 
am proud to say that I receive all my medical care at VA. It is 
the best care available.
    Madam Chair, Ranking Member Brownley, and members of the 
committee, I look forward to working with you to continue to 
strengthen our healthcare system and to answering your 
questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Steven Braverman Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Dr. Braverman.
    Ms. Silas, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver 
your opening statement.

                   STATEMENT OF SHARON SILAS

    Ms. Silas. Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member 
Brownley, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the 
opportunity to be here today to discuss VA's efforts to ensure 
veterans have timely access to healthcare through the community 
care program.
    Although the majority of veterans receiving VA healthcare 
still receive their care at VA medical facilities, the number 
of veterans receiving care through the Veterans Community Care 
Program has increased greatly. In Fiscal Year 2023, community 
care represented about 40 percent of all VA healthcare.
    In 2018, in an effort to help alleviate long wait times for 
care at VA medical facilities, Congress created the most recent 
version of community care, the Veterans Community Care Program, 
expanding access to providers in veterans communities. Since 
the implementation of the program, the Veterans Health 
Administration has made numerous changes to how the program is 
administered, how referrals for appointments for community care 
providers are processed, and how the agency tracks data and 
information on the performance of the program.
    My remarks today address findings and recommendations from 
seven reports that we have issued since 2018 and includes 27 
recommendations that we have made to improve the community care 
program. Although VA has fully implemented some of those 
recommendations and taken steps to address others, 17 of the 27 
recommendations remain open as of February 2025.
    There are a few areas that I would like to focus on today 
where we believe that there are opportunities for VA to 
continue to make improvements to the community care program.
    First, we have long provided oversight of VA's appointment 
scheduling processes and monitoring of wait times. VA has taken 
some actions to address challenges both with scheduling 
appointments with VA and community care providers, such as 
establishing timeline standards for scheduling appointments. VA 
has also established a timeline standard for when a veteran's 
appointment should occur with a VA provider. However, VA has 
still not fully implemented our 2018 recommendation to 
establish a similar timeline standard for community providers.
    Without a complete picture of how long it takes a veteran 
to receive care, whether that care is being delivered at the VA 
or through a community provider, it will continue to be 
difficult for the VA to know whether it is achieving its goal 
of providing veterans with timely access to care.
    Further, we recently issued a report on VA's referral 
coordination initiative, the new process with the potential to 
transform the effectiveness of VA medical center's processing 
of community care referrals and appointment scheduling. In our 
2025 report, we identified challenges with the implementation 
of the new program, including needed improvements to the 
program's direction, guidance, and performance metrics.
    For example, we found that the regional networks and 
medical facilities did not have guidance that was aligned with 
policy, was evidence-based, nor was it timely or consistent, 
resulting in inconsistent implementation of the initiative and 
potentially impacting VA medical facility staff's ability to 
effectively serve veterans. We made five recommendations based 
on our findings.
    Second, I would like to highlight VA's oversight of 
community of care contracts and network adequacy. Oversight of 
these contracts and effective monitoring of the contractor's 
network of community providers and their capacity to see 
veterans contributes to VA's ability to provide timely access 
to care.
    The Veterans Health Administration is responsible for 
measuring the community care contractor's performance, 
including network adequacy. In our August 2024 report, we 
reported weaknesses in VA's oversight of these contracts. 
Specifically, we found that the continued restructuring within 
the office responsible for contract oversight resulted in a 
lack of clarity and completeness in oversight procedures and 
roles and responsibilities. We made three recommendations to 
address the deficiencies that we identified.
    We have also found opportunities for VA to better ensure 
community care program network adequacy. Specifically in our 
2024 report, we found that VA's methodology to calculate 
network adequacy for specialty care through the program does 
not include all claims in their calculation. This raises 
concerns as to whether VA is fully assessing the adequacy of 
community care contractors' networks.
    As I have highlighted in my remarks and in the statement 
that we submitted, GAO will continue to monitor VA's actions 
addressing our open community care recommendations. We also 
have ongoing and future audits that will build on our existing 
body of work in this area, including a review of VA's medical 
document exchange with community providers, which we plan to 
issue this spring.
    Especially as VA has seen an increase in enrollment and 
reliance on VA healthcare and the agency prepares for the next 
generation of community care contracts, the community care 
program will continue to be an important resource for expanded 
healthcare options for veterans in ensuring they receive timely 
access to care, a key goal for VA. Addressing both our 
outstanding and new recommendations will help VA to provide 
consistent high-quality healthcare regardless of where veterans 
receive their care.
    Thank you. That concludes my statement.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Sharon Silas Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Ms. Silas.
    Dr. Kroviak, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to 
deliver your opening statement.

                   STATEMENT OF JULIE KROVIAK

    Dr. Kroviak. Thank you.
    Dr. Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member Brownley, Chairman Bost, 
and subcommittee members, I am pleased to discuss the OIG's 
oversight work related to VA community care.
    Since 2020, we have published over 50 reports that 
highlight the significant challenges VA faces in ensuring 
veterans get timely and high-quality care in the community.
    My colleagues in the Office of Healthcare Inspections, or 
OHI, include physicians, nurses, pharmacists, clinical 
psychologists, and social workers with decades of clinical 
experience. This expertise allows in-depth review and analysis 
of not only community care's administrative issues, but also a 
credible perspective on how these issues affect the actual 
quality of care for veterans.
    For example, OHI's Care in the Community teams conduct 
cyclical VISN-level reviews to evaluate compliance with VHA's 
community care referral and coordination processes. These 
reviews intentionally evaluate administrative processes that 
have direct impact on the healthcare providers' ability to 
manage and coordinate a patient's care.
    OHI also conducts inspections to evaluate issues specific 
to individual episodes of community care, again, through a 
clinical lens, for stakeholders to understand exactly how 
certain events influence the quality and timeliness of care. 
Additionally, OIG's Office of Audits and Evaluations have 
conducted multiple national reviews that highlight issues in 
community care related to contractor oversight, VA staffing, 
Information Technology (IT) systems, and financial management 
processes. This oversight work has informed my testimony before 
this subcommittee, as well as the many briefings we give to 
committee staff, individual members, and VA leaders.
    What we have consistently found can be organized into four 
areas of concern. First, veterans may not experience timely and 
seamless coordinated care when they are referred to the 
community. Referrals designated as high risk must be 
consistently prioritized. Requests for additional services must 
be acted upon quickly to avoid interruptions to care, and 
results of that care must be appropriately uploaded in a 
patient's medical record to ensure care teams have up-to-date 
information and can take action that is needed.
    To do this, VHA must further develop administrative 
processes to get patients to the right provider in a timely 
manner and then follow up to ensure veterans received the 
appropriate care.
    Second, VHA has inadequate oversight of community care 
providers and cannot ensure the quality of care that is being 
provided. Unlike care provided at VHA, the community care 
program lacks robust quality assurance processes that monitor 
the performance of care specific to veterans, such as 
screenings for suicidal ideation and military sexual trauma, as 
well as real-time oversight of opioid prescribing practices. 
For example, community care providers may not be complying with 
VHA's opioid safety initiative, risking the close monitoring of 
these prescriptions for veterans.
    When VA providers cannot even get timely access to basic 
clinical documentation detailing a community provider's 
management of a referred veteran, any opportunity to monitor 
that quality or address additional identified needs is lost. 
Basic qualifications of community providers must be thoroughly 
reviewed and verified prior to joining the community care 
network.
    Third, VHA staffing shortages further undermine community 
care coordination efforts. Reliance on community providers is 
necessary, but as we have seen, it does not guarantee veterans 
will get the timely care they need. VHA must commit adequate 
staffing and resources to ensure community care is as seamless 
as it is in house.
    Fourth, substandard IT systems and inaccurate and 
incomplete data significantly restrict VA's ability to manage 
community care payments. VA has a right and an obligation to 
recover community care treatment costs for conditions unrelated 
to military service from veterans' private health insurers. The 
OIG has found that VHA has not enacted effective processes to 
do this, compounded further by the pause of the program 
integrity tool which is used to identify billable claims.
    OIG teams will continue to conduct meaningful independent 
oversight to ensure veterans receive the timely high-quality 
care they deserve. We look forward to working with the 
subcommittee to advance VHA's provision of care to veterans 
regardless of where it is provided.
    Dr. Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member Brownley, and members of 
the subcommittee, this concludes my statement. I look forward 
to your questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Julie Kroviak Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much, Dr. Kroviak.
    As is customary, I will reserve my time until all of the 
members have had a chance to ask their questions.
    With that, I now recognize our chair of the full committee, 
Chairman Bost, for 5 minutes for any questions he may have.
    Mr. Bost. First I want to thank Chairman Dr. Miller-Meeks. 
You know, I appreciate your friendship and the continued 
leadership that you are due here with the VA. It puts veterans 
front and center, and thank you for that.
    You know, as chairman, I am deeply committed to our shared 
mission of improving, delivering the care and services to our 
Nation's veterans. You have all heard me say it before, and I 
am going to say it again, VA was built, not for VA bureaucracy, 
but for the veterans themselves, and we have to remember that.
    That is why, last month, I held a hearing to learn what 
veterans and their family members think about community care. 
The witnesses put their trust in the VA, and the bureaucracy 
burned them in the process.
    Mr. Dooley, an Army veteran of 20 years, described his 
experience with VA saying, I was treated like I was asking for 
charity and not treated as a disabled veteran that was trying 
to receive life-saving treatment.
    Ms. Locklear, a former VA employee who tragically lost her 
son, stated, I believe my child would still be here today if 
the VA had lived up to their promise and the promises that were 
made to him.
    Ms. Diamond, a Navy veteran, struggled with access--
appropriate community care, and she shared this. VA must stop 
its practice of rationing inpatient mental healthcare based on 
arbitrary seemingly thoughtless guidelines.
    You would think that these testimoneys would be sufficient 
for anyone to realize that VA community care reforms are 
needed.
    Some members wanted another hearing to talk about the 
community care and accuse us of not conducting oversight on the 
community care. This statement is inaccurate. Let me say that 
again. These statements are inaccurate.
    Last Congress--and I want to be very clear that all members 
hear this. Last Congress, we held nine hearings, nine hearings 
that focused on community care. For someone to say we are not 
focused on it, we held nine hearings. Now, I do not expect 
Congress--this Congress to be any different.
    Last week, I and 10 cosponsors introduced the ACCESS Act, 
because veterans have earned access, timely and quality 
healthcare, whether in the VA at home or in the community. The 
ACCESS Act would codify care access standards, give veterans a 
say in their care choices, and provide access to urgent mental 
health residential care.
    The VA MISSION Act passed in 2018 with overwhelming 
bipartisan support, like the MISSION Act, the ACCESS Act does 
nothing to privatize VA. Now, let me say that again. The VA 
MISSION Act, like the ACCESS Act, does nothing to privatize VA. 
Anyone who suggests otherwise based on how they feel or how 
their party feels needs to put a pair of glasses on and read 
the bill.
    Make no mistake, the ACCESS Act embodies the committee's 
position. Community care is VA care. Community care is VA care. 
Community care is not a substitute but an essential extension 
of VA's mission.
    Now, I look forward to working with my good friend, Mr.--
the Secretary, Doug Collins. He and I have been friends a long 
time, and we are going to focus on VA and its only mission, and 
that is caring for our veterans. That is our only mission.
    Now my question. Dr. Braverman, what is the Trump 
administration doing to ensure that veterans are at the center 
of every VA decision?
    Dr. Braverman. Chairman Bost, I think the most important 
answer to your question is that that is already the guidance 
from Secretary Collins, and it is guidance that we all have and 
all believe in in regards to the decision-making. That was also 
something that I put in my original opening statement that as I 
have gone through my VA career, those decisions really are made 
with the best interests of the veterans at heart. We will 
continue to do that for every decision that we make along the 
way.
    Mr. Bost. I look forward to helping you achieve that, not 
only with the new Secretary, but everybody that is involved. I 
hope that that is the mission of everyone there at the VA, and 
know that we are going to be working together to make that 
happen.
    Madam Chair, I yield back. My time has expired.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much, Chair Bost.
    I now recognize Ranking Member Brownley for 5 minutes for 
any questions she may have.
    Ms. Brownley. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Dr. Braverman, it is really good to see you. 
Congratulations on your assignment here in Washington.
    I just have to say that I have worked with Dr. Braverman 
very closely over the years, and he has done really terrific 
work in the Los Angeles Medical Center but for all of VISN 22 
and really appreciate your leadership and seeing through the 
Community Based Outpatient Clinic (CBOC) in my district as 
well. Thank you for that.
    Mr. Braverman, Secretary Collins just informed the 
committee today that VA does not expect to award a next 
generation of community care network contracts. Might be two to 
three more years before--before they are ready to do that. 
Obviously, the current Optum and TriWest contracts are set to 
expire.
    In his letter, he said that in the previous administration 
there were delayed key programmatic decisions. What were those 
delayed key programmatic decisions?
    Dr. Braverman. Well, I think the basics to that is that as 
we are going through the requirements process to identify and 
the decisions to identify what needs to be in these contracts, 
we want to make sure that they are done according to 
acquisition standards. That is what we will be doing moving 
forward.
    The timeline that was identified in the letter that you 
received is, you know, based on us committing to moving as 
quickly as possible to making those decisions and being able to 
award the next set of contracts by the summer of 2027.
    Ms. Brownley. Thank you. I agree with your remarks as well 
that community care is really important and what TriWest and 
Optum do is critically important. Those contracts are very 
important.
    Certainly, GAO has identified areas where we can improve 
those contracts and identified a lack of formal lessons 
learned, a process of that in the current--for the past and 
current community care contracts. I just--you know, maybe today 
is not the right day to talk about it, but I want to talk about 
what--what we have learned, what we--do you really think--let 
me get to this question.
    Do you think that we need to include in their contracts our 
ability to have stronger oversight in terms of, you know, the 
wait times issue and other things like that built in so that--
there have been a lot of recommendations, I think, that we 
could make the contracts better, and I believe that they 
perform well. I just want to make sure that we are trying to 
find what the right balance here is between VA care and 
community care, and to really find that out we need a lot more 
data to make some, I think, rather tough decisions.
    Dr. Braverman. We--we absolutely want to work together with 
the next contractors to make sure that that partnership 
identifies ways in which we can really focus on the quality of 
care that is being delivered within--by the contractors, by the 
third-party administrators to be able to ensure that we have a 
way to communicate what those wait times are, what those 
capabilities are, network adequacy, taking a look at those 
areas for improvement that have been identified in the--you 
know, from the current contract administration and building on 
those to make requirements that will enable us to improve 
those.
    I will actually yield here to Dr. Yende a moment, who has 
some more specific information on the kinds of things that we 
are looking at.
    Dr. Yende. Appreciate that question.
    I would just say we have a lot of lessons learned within 
our legacy contract and based on input from both OIG and GAO. 
While we cannot discuss acquisition-specific issues today, I 
would just like to reassure this committee that we are focusing 
for next generation on better approaches to return medical 
documents, a more robust----
    Ms. Brownley. I do not have much time, so if you cannot 
really talk about it, I just would like to move on. Thank you.
    In terms of just community care scheduling and care 
coordination by the VA in this process, do you think that we 
need to do a better job?
    Dr. Braverman. Absolutely. One of the things we are doing 
now is tracking that at my level to identify what the wait 
times are, and then also focus on integration as we reassess 
what our whole IVC organization is going to look like moving 
forward.
    Ms. Brownley. This whole offer to employees for--you know, 
to--the buyout for leaving the organization and so forth, a lot 
of that--I think most of it has been rescinded now. I am 
worried about what--those people who are prepared and ready to 
take it, and now that has--that offer has been rescinded.
    Dr. Braverman. Well, in the VA, we have been very proactive 
in identifying exemptions from the hiring freeze and exemptions 
from participation or exclusions from participation in the 
deferred resignation program, which accounts for more than 90 
percent of the employees that work within our field hospitals 
and clinics. That I think that, for the most part, our ability 
to care for our veterans is pretty much preserved, and I think 
we will be able to continue to move forward.
    This is an anxious time for all of our Federal employees, 
and we will continue to work with them to move forward.
    Ms. Brownley. Thank you.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Ranking Member Brownley.
    The chair now recognizes Dr. Murphy for 5 minutes for any 
questions he may have.
    Mr. Murphy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to say thank 
you to all our witnesses today.
    You know, I just--I have to reiterate the chairman's 
comment about community care. I just do not understand the 
rationale of beating up on it. We do not have enough doctors in 
the VA. We have to refer our other patients out into the 
community. Making that a seamless process rather than just 
beating on the fact that community care is here with us is, my 
opinion, just ridiculous. It is a waste of time, and it is just 
something that the committee does not need to do. It is just 
insult after insult. As a community care provider myself, it is 
just ridiculous that we have it.
    You know, we have come before this committee--I have been 
on this committee now for 5 years, and I have just come up and 
I have heard the same litany of excuses, excuses that has gone 
on and the same story about delayed care, especially in the 
community. I am hopeful that with new leadership coming in and 
actually with the tenor of what is going on in Washington, DC, 
that we actually get back to not only serving the people of the 
country but the veterans who served us so dearly.
    Let me ask just a couple of questions. Dr. Kroviak, just, 
you know, I am in awe of all the things that you spoke about. 
Your testimony highlighted some reported delays in the 
processing of community care referrals, even for veterans with 
serious conditions. We had--I had a constituent here at our 
last meeting that was still waiting 9 months to get a referral.
    What changes do you believe, concrete changes, something 
that actually not to be talked about, that needs to be done, 
should the VA implement to prevent these serious delays 
occurring, especially ones with time-sensitive things like 
cardiac disease or cancer care?
    Dr. Kroviak. Thank you. I think the most important thing is 
clear policies on prioritizing the very specialties you are 
describing that would be automatically considered high risk, 
and then internal oversight that ensures that frontline staff 
are following through consistently on those policies and 
practices. We have seen that is not happening.
    Mr. Murphy. Yes. You know, people say that we want to 
privatize the VA. In certain ways, I think the private--the 
actions of the healthcare community and the private world 
should be mimicked because it is--it is a tone within our VA 
that there is no expediency to this. Again, with new leadership 
coming in, I think there will be now a different tenor of 
expediency.
    Follow-up question. What happened at the Buffalo VA? The 
staff raised concerns, but the leadership did not do anything 
about it. What mechanisms now should be in place to hold the VA 
leaders responsible when they ignore or dismiss staff with 
concerns about patient safety?
    Dr. Kroviak. As we have said in much of our testimony and 
in our reports, it is clearly defined roles and 
responsibilities that will establish the authority that we are 
all looking for. If you know it is your job to follow up and 
make sure that your staff are performing certain activities, 
and they are not, then you need to have the authority to hold 
them accountable. If you are still not getting where you need 
to go, you need to know to go to the level above, and that is 
just not consistently happening.
    Mr. Murphy. Well, I think it needs to, and there needs to 
be accountability. I think if one word is describing the tenor 
in the country right now, it is called accountability. We know 
that delay in care changes outcomes, period. Everybody knows. 
Especially in cancer care. You are delayed in diagnosis, 
delayed in treatment, your outcome is worse.
    Dr. Braverman, when veterans face delays in care due to 
administrative failures within the VA, what processes regarding 
their lost referrals, miscommunications, delayed 
authorizations, what accountability measures are in place or 
need to be in place that staff and leadership are responsible 
for these failures? Again, accountability, meaning the--in the 
word--the imperative word there.
    Dr. Braverman. One of the things that we have to do is 
identify the why for when these things happen, and is it a 
matter of failure to execute, failure to oversee, or just 
making errors because the processes are not clear. Once we have 
that information at hand, we can fix the processes, if that is 
what is going on. Then hold leaders accountable for failure to 
take actions when information----
    Mr. Murphy. Is the VA aware of something just called a 
basic root cause analysis?
    Dr. Braverman. Absolutely.
    Mr. Murphy. Sentinel events?
    Dr. Braverman. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Murphy. Okay. In my world where we have had those, if, 
God forbid, there was a sentinel event where some patient was 
injured, did not get the care, et cetera, there is an action 
team that goes in there. That is then a zero recurrent event. 
It is deemed to be not to ever occur again.
    Sadly enough, we have heard this litany of 5 years--I have 
anyway--of these same things being done over and over and over 
again. Last 4 years, scandal after scandal after scandal. I do 
not think we made one inch of progress toward getting better 
care, more efficient care for our VA.
    We should not be hearing these stories. Stories occur, 
sure. Mistakes happen because we are a human institution. The 
fact that these are recurring and over and over again with no 
improvement is anathema to what this committee should be all 
about.
    Thank you, Madam Chairman. I will yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Dr. Murphy.
    The chair now recognizes Representative Cherfilus-McCormick 
for 5 minutes for any questions she may have.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you, Chairwoman Miller-Meeks 
and Ranking Member Brownley for holding this hearing today.
    The VA has faced persistent issues with staffing clinical 
and administrative positions essential for managing veterans 
community care. Reports from the GAO and VA OIG reveal 
challenges, including unreliable data for staffing assessments, 
inconsistent staffing practices across facilities, and 
inadequate staffing tools.
    Facility leaders lack the authority to enforce recommended 
staffing levels, and some question whether the suggested 
numbers are too high. These ongoing staffing challenges impact 
the effective administration of community care for our 
veterans. I am deeply concerned that this problem will be 
further exacerbated by President Trump's recent executive order 
to freeze Federal workforces.
    Dr. Braverman, what is your plan to ensure that the VA 
medical facility has the staff necessary to coordinate 
veterans' care within the community care program?
    Dr. Braverman. The Secretary has made it clear that we are 
going to have the staff required in order to do our mission, 
which is basically taking care of veterans.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Is there a plan as of right now?
    Dr. Braverman. As of right now, there is, in that we have 
these exemptions against the hiring freeze for the people that 
are necessary in order to coordinate that care, in order to----
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Could you tell us some of the 
exemptions?
    Dr. Braverman. I have a--all of the medical support 
assistants, the nurses, the team that is associated with the 
provision and scheduling of these are on the exemption list. 
There is--I do not know the exact number of occupations that 
are, you know, on that list, but we certainly can provide that 
list to you.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you.
    My second question is, since the enactment of the MISSION 
Act, the veterans at--the Veterans Community Care Program has 
grown exponentially, straining the budget of the VA and 
threatening the ability of the VA to provide direct care to our 
veterans. In fact, the VA is on track to obligate $42 billion 
in Fiscal Year 2025 for the community care program, up from 
$14.3 billion before the enactment of the MISSION Act.
    If this unsustainable trend continues, the VA will be 
unable to fulfill its four core missions, one of which is to 
serve a backstop--a backstop for emergencies of hurricanes that 
affect my constituents in Florida immensely.
    Dr. Yende, would you agree that it is important for the VA 
to achieve all of its four key missions?
    Dr. Braverman. I am sorry. Who was that referred to?
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Oh, Dr. Yende.
    Dr. Braverman. Oh, Okay. Sorry.
    Dr. Yende. Yes. Absolutely, Congresswoman. We do agree with 
you. Just to be clear, we believe that community care is an 
important part of VA care, and we will continue to support when 
veterans are eligible for community care that they are offered 
community care and veterans, obviously, will have the choice to 
determine whether they want to stay in the VA or choose 
community care.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Specifically, what I was asking is 
that do you believe that there would be a negative impact to 
veterans who are trying to--the VA is supposed to be the 
backstop for emergency care, like hurricanes. With this 
exponential amount rising consistently, is there a concern for 
you?
    Dr. Yende. We are not aware of any direct impacts on our 
fourth mission due to community care increase, but we can 
definitely take that back and give you some more details.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Would you agree that the rapid 
growth of spending on a community care program would 
potentially affect VA's ability to achieve its fourth mission, 
especially the fourth mission--I guess we already discussed 
that.
    My next concern then would be, what would you propose that 
we could do that would kind of merge and subside the rising 
number of community care--community care?
    Dr. Yende. Congresswoman, I just want to be clear over 
here. Our principles when we discuss care options with the 
veterans are, if the veteran is eligible for community care, 
our staff should be offering those options to the veterans. 
Then if the veteran chooses to stay in the VA, then they would 
get their care in the VA. If they are choosing to go into the 
community, we should be able to offer that care in the 
community.
    Having said that, everyday VA facilities are trying to 
build capacity within the direct care system to offer more and 
more services. A good example of this is residential treatment 
programs. We have increased capacity for beds within our VA 
direct care system, and that is how we are offering more VA 
care in the current system.
    We just want to be clear, we do not believe these are 
competing. We want to make sure we follow the law in this 
particular case.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you. I yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Representative Cherfilus-
McCormick.
    The chair now recognizes Representative Van Orden for 5 
minutes for any questions he may have.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thanks for having us 
here today.
    I am the--I am the longest serving enlisted member of the 
United States military to ever get elected to Congress in the 
history of the Nation. I get all my healthcare through the VA, 
and I love the VA. I want everybody to go to the VA who has 
served our country. I get these rocking glasses in LaCrosse, I 
also get seen in Tomah. When I say I get all of my healthcare 
at the VA, I mean also at Crossing Rivers Hospital in Prairie 
du Chien, Wisconsin, when I cannot get an appointment.
    Again, I cannot stress enough that community care is 
Veterans Administration care because the check is coming from 
there. I just want to--because I was an enlisted guy, I wanted 
to show you something here.
    These--these are the recommendations that were made by Ms. 
Silas' office. Your reports are fantastic. Fifty reports is a 
lot. Okay. These are the things that the VA has not done. If 
you look at them sideways, they look like they are just about 
exactly the same thickness, don't they?
    If we have the--the GAO working hard--sorry, enlisted guy, 
almost came out--and Dr. Kroviak working hard, and over years 
and years--since 2018, they gave you this stuff. You have 18 
out of the 21 have not been done? This is--this is--this is a--
it is endemic, and I have learned this as a chair of the 
Subcommittee for Economic Opportunity, that we seem to keep 
going in these circles. You know what I mean?
    We have got the Government Accountability Office, we have 
got the IG doing stuff, and then it goes to the VA and just 
falls into a hole. We forget about it for a while, and then 
another report--you said you do 50 reports, ma'am? Fifty 
reports.
    If you are by volume to take the amount of recommendations 
in those 50 reports and showed us what was not acted on in any 
of those reports, what do you think that ratio would be? There 
has got to be--how many recommendations are in 50 reports? A 
lot.
    Dr. Kroviak. There are hundreds of recommendations.
    Mr. Van Orden. To scale, like, how many you think the 
Veterans Affairs Administration has not acted on?
    Dr. Kroviak. I would be much more comfortable getting that 
number back to you formally, but yes----
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. We can do that. I am okay with that.
    The point being this: There is zero accountability at the 
Veterans Affairs Administration, Doctor. I am glad you are 
coming in, and I am glad Secretary Collins is here. There is 
zero accountability at the Veterans Affairs Administration. I 
do not have--hopefully, this will change. I do not have any 
confidence--I mean zero confidence--in the Veterans Affairs 
Administration to be able to plan itself even out of a wet 
paper sack, because I have seen it to the tune of billions and 
billions and billions of dollars of waste.
    One example is the electronic GI Bill. The estimate from 
the guys at the VA, that it was going to cost $25 million. You 
know what they are up to now? $960 million from a $25 million 
estimate.
    Mrs. Cherfilus-McCormick, we had this hearing the other day 
about the electronic service record. Wow. I mean, it is 
shocking. I mean, they are up to like $50 billion they think it 
is going to take to implement from a $16 billion initial 
estimate. Okay. That is unacceptable.
    I mean, it begs the question, Ms. Silas and Ms. Kroviak, 
you know, why do you guys even exist if you are doing this, and 
I mean quality work, if it is not going to be acted on?
    This is more of an encouragement, you know, senior enlisted 
to--you were probably a colonel or something when you got out?
    Dr. Braverman. Yes, I was.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. There you go. This is your senior 
listed adviser to the incoming colonel. Your command is broken, 
and it needs to be fixed. It will not be fixed until you hold 
people accountable like you would in the military.
    The Veterans Affairs Administration has to stop acting on a 
long series of suggestions. Those should not be suggestions. We 
have got to figure out a way to empower you to hold people 
accountable that do not follow the findings in your reports, 
and nothing is going to change until that happens.
    I do not really have a question. I just--I am offering you 
encouragement. I want to thank you ladies for your exceptional 
work. If you ever need anything, I am really good at yelling at 
people. I can do that all day long. Just reach out to my 
office, I will scream at them on the phone for you. Is that 
good?
    Dr. Braverman. Yes, thank you.
    Mr. Van Orden. All right. Thanks, Colonel.
    I yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. I would echo that about Representative 
Van Orden, and thank you very much Representative Van Orden.
    The chair now recognizes Dr. Conaway for 5 minutes for any 
questions he may have.
    Mr. Conaway. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for presenting yourselves 
to us today.
    I am--I suspect there is going to be broad agreement on 
this committee that community care is VA care and is necessary. 
And--but, of course, the devil is in the details and the 
implementation, of course, we must, as we always do, have cost 
concerns as part of our deliberations.
    It has been noted, the rise in the use of community care. 
Dr. Braverman--and perhaps Mr. Yende may want to chime in as 
well--do you have a concern about the growth of the community 
care program and what that might mean for the direct care 
program?
    What we also know is, what is in our notes and has been 
said here at this dais, is that veterans certainly want the 
direct care program to continue. They want to have--receive 
their healthcare there. Numerous reports show that the quality 
of care delivered there is better than you are going to get out 
in the private sector.
    Do you have a concern about the growth of the community 
care program and the potential negative impact on the direct 
care program within the VA?
    Dr. Braverman. Thank you for the question. The way I would 
answer that is, first off, to make sure that we have a direct 
care system that provides, to the best of our ability, the 
needs for all of the veterans. That their initial justification 
for care and availability for care is maximized within our 
system, and then continue to use the community care as that 
partner as VA care, as many folks have identified that before.
    We are venturing on a productivity and efficiency 
initiative in order to try to maximize the ability to provide 
care in the direct care system, which will then----
    Mr. Conaway. Pardon me. Do you have a concern about the 
direct care system being able to function in a way that meets 
the demand in the eyes of the veteran community--and I think 
this committee--that the direct care program thrives and is 
there for the veterans well into the future?
    Dr. Braverman. I--I do not have concern about the ability 
to do that as long as Congress identifies the--and approves 
the----
    Mr. Conaway. The funds.
    Dr. Braverman [continuing]. resources that we need to make 
that happen.
    Mr. Conaway. Thank you.
    My next question is for Dr. Kroviak. You know, one of the 
things that we are seeing in our notes which is concerning to 
me, when you look at the sort of schematic they lay out for 
referrals, getting them done, getting people moved through a 
system to get care, one of the things that was noted is that 
there is a disconnect between what is in the Veterans 
Administration's regulations around referrals and the 
timeliness there and what the actual practice is when they get 
out into the community setting.
    Now, in your investigations, you actually go to the third-
party providers, Third Party Administrators (TPA) and others, 
to look at their processes as well as the ones in the VA or no?
    Dr. Kroviak. No. We look exclusively at VA.
    Mr. Conaway. VA exclusively. Does anybody look at the 
processes in--in the third-party community?
    Dr. Kroviak. We do not have that authority to look at the--
--
    Mr. Conaway. You do not have the authority.
    Well, let me--let me bounce back to Dr. Braverman then. Is 
there a--as you think about this next--current contract or 
perhaps the next contract, recognizing--and first off, I will 
ask you--you can agree or disagree--do you recognize there is a 
mismatch between what the VA rules are about referral and 
getting--and the timeliness and what actually happens in 
practice when people are referred to the community? Do you 
agree that there is a mismatch there?
    Dr. Braverman. I would agree that we have these set of 
standards that are identified in the VA access standards and we 
do not have those same standards in the community care.
    Mr. Conaway. That--that sounds--I mean, am I right, then, 
that that is a contracting problem in the way the contracts are 
drafted to direct the operations of the vendors, that is, Optum 
and, what is it, TriWest and others who are providing community 
care? Is that--is that part of the problem here with this--this 
disconnect and people not getting timely care in the community?
    Dr. Braverman. I will let you respond to that.
    Dr. Yende. You are right. In our current contract, we do 
not have that requirement. I would just add that, from our 
standpoint, community care is a partner when a VA care option 
is not available.
    Mr. Conaway. Understood.
    Dr. Yende. That is a backstop, and these are some of the 
challenges within the U.S. healthcare system, so we have to 
work within those confines.
    Mr. Conaway. Well, it sounds like it might be a contracting 
issue. I do wonder whether or not--I mean, contracts, you are 
not supposed to change them. Is there a way that--well, let us 
just say that--for myself, and maybe there will be others that 
disagree or agree with me, that we need to look more carefully 
at the contracts--the current contracts, what remedies we might 
have within the current contracts if people are not adhering to 
the contracts. Then, certainly, when we recontract, that we 
take care to make sure there is a match between what we are 
requiring and what they actually do.
    Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much, Dr. Conaway.
    The chair now recognizes Representative Hamadeh for 5 
minutes for any questions he may have.
    Mr. Hamadeh. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
    As a veteran, I am deeply troubled by reports of systemic 
delays veterans face accessing care through the VA's Community 
Care Program. As mentioned earlier, we had--a few weeks ago, 
really, we heard tragic stories. I mean, it was quite an 
emotional hearing of so many failures within the VA system and 
referrals to the community care program.
    Now, despite reforms, VA mismanagement continues to put 
bureaucracy over timely healthcare, using dishonest wait time 
metrics, excessive appointment cancellations, and barriers to 
community care referrals. The VA fails on its most basic 
mission: caring for those who served. My question will focus on 
identifying specific actions to streamline care access. 
Veterans deserve accountability, transparency, and flexible 
care options. We must focus on empowering veterans through 
healthcare choice.
    My first question is for Ms. Silas. What main factors drive 
continued barriers to community care access?
    Ms. Silas. There is a number of barriers in terms of 
getting timely access to the community care program. One is the 
process within VA to determine eligibility for the program to 
identify providers of the community that are available to see 
veterans for care. The process itself, there is a lot of back 
and forth in discussing the options with the veteran, 
identifying the provider availability, and then working on an 
appointment scheduling time that works for both. There is a lot 
of back and forth that can go on during that time. It is the 
nature of the process.
    Sometimes when there is this back and forth and there may 
be challenges in contacting the veteran to get their 
preferences of times and availability. Maybe those 
appointments, slots may get picked up by other patients not 
even in VA care. There is a constant juggle of doing that 
within the process itself.
    I think one of the other issues is that veterans are 
competing with other patients out in the community for these 
appointment slots. We know just in general in the healthcare 
industry that it is difficult to find providers. There is a 
shortage of providers. When you are working in an environment 
and the VA is responsible for ensuring that these veterans get 
timely care, those create a lot of challenges for them.
    Mr. Hamadeh. Would codifying access standards into law help 
ensure access?
    Ms. Silas. I think establishing--and this goes back to our 
2018 recommendation that we made where we recommended VA 
establish a standard for when veterans receive care in the 
community.
    Right now, there is a standard for when an appointment is 
scheduled for the veteran in the community, which is great for 
holding the VA staff accountable for meeting that standard. We 
do not have a similar standard for when the veteran actually 
receives care in the community. We have had conversations with 
VA officials during our follow up on these recommendations to 
see what actions they have taken, and there are concerns that 
they do not have any control over the community providers' 
schedules and their capacity to see veterans.
    I do believe by establishing and fulfilling our 
recommendation of establishing a standard for receipt of care 
it would at least help VA to better monitor whether or not 
veterans are getting timely access to care, and it would 
actually provide an indicator to see if they are actually 
meeting their goal of providing timely care.
    Mr. Hamadeh. That leads me to Dr. Braverman. Why has not 
the VA complied with using the date requested versus the 
patient indicated dates to ensure the accurate wait times that 
Ms. Silas just noted?
    Dr. Braverman. I am going to refer that to Dr. Yende, 
because he is more familiar with the specifics.
    Dr. Yende. Our wait time calculations start from the time 
the service is requested. If a primary care physician requested 
a cardiology appointment, that is when time zero starts and 
that is how we calculate our wait times, at least in the last 
few years. It is not from the clinically indicated date as you 
are referring to.
    Mr. Hamadeh. It just seems like there is a mismatch. I 
think what we need is to know what the actual wait time is and 
not what is most convenient for the VA. That is something that 
has been a frustration for so many people.
    Dr. Yende. If I can just clarify----
    Mr. Hamadeh. Sure.
    Dr. Yende [continuing]. Congressman. Time zero, which is 
when the primary care physician requests that appointment, is 
the most proximal time. That cannot be fudged. That is saying 
the request is made by the primary care physician. I know when 
people have used clinically indicated data as you are referring 
to, there may be ways to change that, but in general, we start 
calculating wait times from the point the request for service 
has been made.
    I would just submit to you that there is usually no way to 
change that time, and that is a very conservative estimate to 
look at wait times.
    Mr. Hamadeh. My time is up. I yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. I thank you, Representative Hamadeh.
    The chair now recognizes Dr. Morrison for 5 minutes for any 
questions she may have.
    Ms. Morrison. Thank you, Madam Chair, for holding this 
hearing. Thanks to the witnesses for being here today. I have 
enjoyed this discussion. I think we have all learned a lot.
    You know, as one of the five physicians serving on the 
subcommittee, I am deeply committed to working with my 
colleagues on both sides of the aisle to ensure that our 
veterans receive the highest standard of care. As an OB/GYN, I 
am especially focused on making sure women veterans get the 
quality care that they have earned and deserve.
    Last week, I had the opportunity to visit the Minneapolis 
VA, learn about its new women's veterans clinic that is 
scheduled to open next year. We are lucky in the Twin Cities 
our VA is pretty well equipped to meet the needs of our women 
veterans, but we know this is not the case everywhere across 
the country. In parts of the country where women's healthcare 
is not as readily available, we need to take extra care to 
ensure that community providers are filling those gaps.
    Ms. Silas, in its most recent report on women veterans, 
which was actually I believe in 2016, the GAO found that 
improving oversight of the community care program is essential 
to improving healthcare for women veterans. We know this 
because many women specific procedures, like mammograms, 
maternity care, and gynecology, are not always available at the 
VA. As you know, GAO issued a priority recommendation that the 
VA include performance metrics for access to these women 
specific procedures in its community care contracts, the 
rationale being that it would give VA a mechanism to work with 
a third-party administrator to ensure network adequacy for 
women's health.
    This recommendation was closed in 2023, but did VA ever 
actually incorporate any performance metrics into its community 
care contracts?
    Ms. Silas. Thank you for the question.
    No, they did not. They created a dashboard to monitor 
access to care for women's veterans care. While that is a good 
tool to monitor access, timely access to care, having contract 
requirements or performance metrics in a contract would have a 
higher level of accountability in place. To do that you would 
have to do a contract modification, which is never popular with 
existing contracts. There is a window now as VA is gearing up 
for the next generation of community care contracts for VA to 
take that into consideration.
    Ms. Morrison. That is great news, and you answered my next 
question so thank you.
    Dr. Braverman, thank you for being here today. My question 
for you is, why did not VA choose to follow the GAO 
recommendation and modify its community care contracts to 
implement these performance metrics for women's health, which 
as we know disproportionately referred to community providers?
    Dr. Braverman. Unfortunately, I cannot answer the why did 
not we because I was not there. We are going to take all of the 
recommendations that we are hearing here and identify how they 
can be incorporated in the next set of contracts.
    Ms. Morrison. That is great. It sounds like you are open to 
considering this recommendation for future community care 
contracts.
    Dr. Braverman. We are open to everybody's good ideas, and 
some of that will be in the request for information as we move 
forward through the process as well.
    Ms. Morrison. I appreciate that. Thank you, sir.
    Dr. Kroviak, OIG has done a lot of excellent work 
identifying any inefficiencies in the community care program 
when it comes to getting medical records from community 
providers back to VA. In your observation, what are the biggest 
challenges facing VA, and how would you recommend that we chip 
away at them?
    Dr. Kroviak. It is incredibly discouraging but a real 
quality of care issue for the providers who refer their 
patients to the community. There are delays in receiving those 
documents, there are delays in uploading those documents, and 
there are issues with uploading those documents to the correct 
space in the medical records where providers can access the 
results easily.
    Again, I would go back to the oversight of these functions, 
making sure that frontline staff understand clearly what their 
responsibilities are and that there is continuous supervisory 
oversight to ensure those functions are happening consistently.
    Ms. Morrison. Thank you for that answer.
    I yield my time back. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much, Dr. Morrison.
    The chair now recognizes Representative King-Hinds for 5 
minutes for any questions she may have.
    Ms. King-Hinds. Thank you, Chair. Thank you to all of our 
witnesses for making it out here today. I know the storm is--
the winter storm is not for me coming from the islands.
    I am from the Northern Mariana Islands, and there are 
hundreds of veterans facing extreme limitations when accessing 
healthcare professionals and resources. In the Northern Mariana 
Islands, for context, there are three islands with permanent 
populations--Tinian, Rota, and Saipan--with roughly 47,000 
people. Covering these regions on a part-time basis is one 
doctor who is contracted to treat veterans only 2 days a week 
and one nurse. If a veteran lives in Tinian or Rota, they must 
travel to Saipan to visit these two healthcare professionals, 
costing hundreds of dollars in airfare alone, not to mention 
lodging, meals, ground transportation and other expenses.
    The VHA will occasionally send specialty care doctors to 
the Northern Marianas, but only once every other couple of 
months. If a veteran from the Marianas needs more advanced 
specialized care from Veterans Affairs directly, the nearest VA 
hospital is in Honolulu. These veterans, including many who are 
older and living on fixed income, must pay out of pocket to 
travel for care and then wait, often too long, to receive their 
reimbursements.
    Our communities have long been working to establish 
community based outpatient clinic, or a CBOC, but the threshold 
is 1,000, and because of the lack of care and access to care, 
whether it be direct or community based care, we just see these 
veterans return home only to leave to look for adequate care 
somewhere else.
    I am sitting here and I am listening to, you know, my 
colleagues argue about whether or not direct care or community 
care is the most viable solution. Then I am listening to Ms. 
Silas and Ms. Kroviak talk about just the issues and the 
challenges with both situations. I am sitting here having to go 
back home on a monthly basis and talk to veterans who, one, are 
killing themselves, two, are dying because they do not have any 
service at all. I say that to go on record because too often 
people from the territories are not heard in terms of their 
needs being met, and so I thought it was important that you all 
hear that directly from me.
    Listen, I get how expensive healthcare can be, right. The 
challenge is not just for our veterans; we have challenge to 
access to healthcare for nonveterans as well. You know, what 
would it take, basically, for the VA to provide any type of 
service for our veterans that would provide some of this--would 
provide some of our people the relief that they are desperately 
seeking?
    Dr. Braverman. Congresswoman, I have to admit that I do not 
know much about the program that you are describing, and I will 
get some more information and get back to you.
    Ms. King-Hinds. I will refer you to a GAO report that was 
published in May 2024. I think that is the problem, right, is 
that too often we leave these territories behind. Too often it 
is where these territories of these soldiers--you know, we are 
basically like a soldier-producing island. In 10 or 20 years 
from now, our whole entire island's population will be nothing 
but vets. Yet we have to deal with all these restrictive 
regulations, one-size-fits-all regulations that may work here, 
but obviously it is not working here because we are arguing 
about direct services or community--you know, community access 
services, right. If you can just please take note of that and 
let us try to figure out how to make the situation better.
    Also, I have one more question. We had one VHA 
administrative specialist whose duties included assisting 
patients and securing appointments with a part-time physician 
or nurse. She recently retired in 2023, and her position has 
been vacant since then. Can you please help us out in terms of 
making sure that we fill that position as soon as possible? She 
is the only person that provides a direct lifeline to our 
veterans and she is badly needed. One person, that is all we 
have. All right.
    Dr. Yende. If I can just add to what Dr. Braverman said. 
Places like Alaska, Pacific Islands have unique challenges that 
are different from the rest of the country, and we realize that 
sometimes the solutions have to be different.
    Ms. King-Hinds. Creative.
    Dr. Yende. Yes. We work closely with our TriWest TPA 
partners in those regions, so we will commit to looking into 
this as a follow up from this hearing. I appreciate the 
opportunity to look into it.
    Ms. King-Hinds. Thank you. I appreciate it.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. The gentlewoman yields.
    Thank you, Representative King-Hinds.
    I now yield myself 5 minutes to ask questions.
    As I have listened to the dialog, which I think is very 
helpful to do, other questions have arisen as we have gone 
through this.
    Dr. Kroviak, you mentioned some metrics that are required 
for care within the VA but not for care within the community. I 
found that interesting because one of the things that you 
addressed was opioid prescribing. As a person who has provided 
community care and as a veteran, for every doctor that is out 
in the community, you have to access and go to the prescription 
drug monitoring program (PDMP) of your State, and you are 
required, in order to get your license, to have familiarity and 
continuing education on prescription drug monitoring. Before 
you can prescribe a medication, you have to go to the 
prescription drug monitoring, especially if it is a opioid.
    Have you actually looked at what is required for physicians 
within the community that may be the same standard as what the 
VA is requesting?
    Dr. Kroviak. They might very well be the same standard 
based on the State requirements for the license. However, we 
have done work that has discovered there was not documentation 
or even a reference to a PDMP query or a urine drug screen 
within the community when we were trying to verify that those--
--
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. You have not accessed the PMPD [sic] or 
gone to the State to see if it is accessed?
    Dr. Kroviak. Correct.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Okay. Thank you.
    Then I was listening to the dialog over waiting times. 
Although I may not have a difficulty with that being part of a 
contractual obligation, as I listened to it and heard that we 
do not have a standard--so if a veteran tries to make an 
appointment for a VA, they either cannot get an appointment 
within 30 days or sometimes they are called back on the 29th 
day of 30 days to extend the timeline and/or they are greater 
than 40 miles away.
    If a veteran could not get an appointment within 30 days 
and they want to assess community care, but let us say the 
appointment at the VA is 6 weeks away, the appointment in 
community care is 8 weeks away, is not the standard then the 
veteran? Is not it up to the veteran to decide which waiting 
time they prefer or not prefer? If they--you know, they can get 
an earlier appointment at a VA, they can decide whether or not 
they want to travel the distance or, in our case, our Veterans' 
Affairs will arrange transportation.
    Is not the standard the veteran? Is not there a standard in 
place now?
    It is okay, Dr. Yende, you can just talk louder.
    Dr. Yende. You are absolutely right, that is exactly what 
the referral coordination team should be doing is presenting 
that information to the veteran and the veteran should be 
making that choice. If a veteran chooses VA, we are very happy 
to support. If the veteran opts out and goes to the community, 
then we will make certain the veteran gets care.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. If there is a holdup in the amount of 
time from which a veteran requests community care but the 
authorization's not given to the community care provider so 
then they cannot request to--or they cannot make an 
appointment, that then will lead to further delays.
    Additionally--I have got to find my document here, so I 
apologize. I have got all these papers because I have 
completely changed my testimony.
    Since I have been on this committee, I have heard one 
insult after another hurled at VA community care. My Democrat 
colleagues, with all due respect, and the Biden administration 
have described community care as inferior to VA care and 
certainly argued that it is more expensive. As I said, I am not 
only a veteran, but a community provider.
    I know that, you know, community care is ordinarily 
excellent care, just like care at the VA is ordinarily 
excellent care. In many cases, it is specialty care that is not 
available at the VA or at a distance that is, you know, 
manageable.
    Ms. Silas, your testimony also suggests that community care 
is often more affordable than in-house care. Your written 
testimony states, and I am going to quote because I think it is 
important, ``VA documentation shows that community care 
represented about 40 percent of all VA healthcare in Fiscal 
Year 2023. According to VHA, the Department spent about $26.7 
billion on this care in the same year, out of a total of 126.--
$128.6 billion appropriated for all VA healthcare.''
    By my math, 40 percent of the VA's healthcare is community 
care but community care costs less than 25 percent of the VA 
healthcare budget. Do you agree that community care is more 
cost effective than VA care?
    Ms. Silas. I would have to see the details of the budget. 
What the facts that you are stating are in our report and in 
the statement.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. This question may be rhetorical and you 
may not be able to answer it, especially Dr. Braverman who is 
new in this position, but the important question to ask would 
be--especially, Dr. Braverman, you mentioned the PACT Act and 
the stress of the PACT Act on to being able to deliver care at 
the VA system. What would the cost to the VA be of all of the 
care currently provided in the community? We know that it was 
$26 billion in 2023. What would the cost be to the VA itself?
    Dr. Braverman. I agree that is somewhat rhetorical based on 
the information that I have. The one thing that I would 
identify in the calculations here is that we do have a lot of 
fixed costs that are not directly related to Relative Value 
Units (RVU). The actual calculation of what it costs for, you 
know, the direct care system for a per patient visit is more 
difficult to identify.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. As is the cost to community providers as 
well. I would wholeheartedly agree.
    Thank you all so much. On behalf of the subcommittee, I 
want to thank you for joining us today. You are now excused, 
and we will wait for a moment as the second panel comes to the 
witness table. Thank you so much.
    [Recess.]
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much. That is my signal. 
Before I introduce Panel II witnesses, I would also like to 
acknowledge that the ranking member of the full committee, 
Representative Takano, is here with us as well. We will hear 
from him later.
    I would like now to introduce the Panel II witnesses.
    Testifying before us today we have Dr. Scott Kruger, Army 
veteran and physician, Virginia Oncology Associates; Dr. Dave 
McIntyre, president and CEO, TriWest Healthcare Alliance; Mr. 
Ed Weinberg, president and CEO, OptumServe; and Mr. Chris 
Faraji, president of Wellhive.
    Dr. Kruger, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Takano. Madam Chair, before we begin, I have a point of 
parliamentary inquiry.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. So recognized.
    Mr. Takano. May I state my inquiry?
    Both the House rules and our committee rules require 
nongovernment witnesses to submit a truth in testimony form. 
These forms include a question about whether the witness is, 
quote, a fiduciary, including, but not limited to, a director, 
officer, advisor, or resident agent of any organization or 
entity that has an interest in the subject matter of the 
hearing, end quote.
    It has come to my attention that both Mr. Weinberg and Mr. 
McIntyre indicated on their truth and testimony forms that they 
are not fiduciaries of their respective organizations.
    My inquiry is this, Madam Chairwoman, did the majority 
advise the witnesses about this form and instruct them to 
indicate that they were not fiduciaries of their organizations?
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. We did not.
    Mr. Takano. If not, does the chairwoman find that these two 
witnesses who are CEOs of the third-party administrators who 
manage VA's community care network and hold at least $70 
billion in VA contracts, that they are not fiduciaries who have 
an interest in the subject matter of this hearing?
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. I think it is important to hear from the 
people that are third-party administrators since we are talking 
about contracting, and that is one of the questions that has 
been brought up.
    Mr. Takano. My question relates to the truth in testimony 
form which nongovernment witnesses must fill out. It is 
important for us to know whether or not it is accurate that 
they are not fiduciaries. It is something that we require of 
all of our nongovernment witnesses.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. They said that they are not fiduciaries. 
We have asked them to fill out and disclose the form and they 
correctly filled out and disclosed on the form.
    Mr. Takano. Okay. It is your determination they are not. 
Thank you.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you.
    We are now going to hear from our witnesses.
    Dr. Kruger, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

                   STATEMENT OF SCOTT KRUGER

    Dr. Kruger. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Members Brownley and 
Takano, and distinguished members of the committee, thank you 
so much for the opportunity to testify today on the Department 
of Veterans program of community care medicine on behalf of my 
practice, Virginia Oncology Associates, and a member of the 
U.S. Oncology Network. This is one of the largest networks of 
integrated community based oncology care in the United States.
    I am Scott Kruger, and I am practicing medical oncologist 
and hematologist and medical director of Virginia Oncology 
Associates. I have had the privilege of providing care to many 
of our Nation's veterans through the CCP. I appreciate the 
subcommittee's attention to the critical role this program has 
in providing care, the highest quality and the best quality of 
care to our veterans.
    The CCP has helped bridge care gaps; however, there are 
significant challenges that must be addressed to enhance its 
effectiveness. For veterans with complex medical conditions 
like cancer, timely access to cancer care is critical. Many 
veterans experience significant delays in receiving 
authorizations for community care, which can be particularly 
detrimental for patients requiring time-sensitive treatments. 
In my area, it can take more than 4 to 6 months to get an 
approval for a mammogram and a breast biopsy, and that is due 
to the ineffective communication with the Office of Community 
Care.
    Furthermore, coordination between the VA and the community 
provider is often lacking, resulting in fragmented access to 
medical records, treatment plans, and follow-up care. This lack 
of data sharing can lead to incomplete medical histories, 
duplicated tests and procedures. In some cases, delaying 
transmitting critical biopsy results, Computed Tomography (CT) 
scans, Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) scans, and other vital 
data just delays the care even more. These challenges in 
coordination and communication are further compounded by the 
inefficiencies faced by the third-party administrators.
    TPAs are struggling with the high case loads that cause 
delayed responses and administrator strain for both providers 
and patients. Although TPAs have provided our practice with a 
liaison to ease in some of these communication barriers, we 
still struggle to reach the community care office effectively.
    Regarding reimbursement and financial stability, we used to 
face significant delays in receiving reimbursements from the 
VA, over 5 years for a payment of one particular claim. We 
actually had 5 years of no nonpayments for all claims.
    Unfortunately, when you do not pay your bills, it 
discourages people like myself from taking care of patients, 
and we want to take care of the VA patients. I myself am a 
veteran, and we want that to happen.
    It is difficult for the veterans because frequently they 
encounter difficulties navigating the complexities of the CCP, 
including eligibility requirements, scheduling, coordinating 
care between the VA and community providers. For instance, I 
saw an elderly woman in her seventies who was sent to me for an 
evaluation of a blood cancer. Of course, I was only allowed to 
see her. I could not do a Complete Blood Count (CBC), I could 
not look at her blood. I was not allowed to order any testing. 
When I saw her, she had had a stroke. She could not walk, she 
had skin breakdown, and she had signs of dementia.
    Although I was authorized one clinical visit, I tried to 
arrange for her to have home care with physical therapy, 
occupational therapy, wound care, and rehabilitation. I set up 
it up with two different home healthcare agencies. The VA did 
not approve any of the agencies. After 2 months and then 4 
months, so far she still has not had any care.
    I have a few recommendations for the committee. Basically, 
we need to enhance the effectiveness of our communication. 
First, I would recognize that we need a better referral process 
to help expedite and implement the standardized guidelines and 
timeliness for approvals. This would streamline operations and 
reduce delays in service.
    Second, improving care coordination is crucial. This can be 
achieved through sharing of medical records and the use of 
effective communication between our platforms. As community 
partners, we are committed to collaborating with the VA to 
ensure our veterans receive the care that they deserve.
    Additionally, the efficiencies of the TPAs can be enhanced 
by establishing clear performance benchmarks and accountability 
measures. This will ensure that the TPAs operate effectively 
and contribute positively to the program.
    Furthermore, timely and fair reimbursement for the 
community providers is essential, because they will not 
participate if there is a financial strain on their own 
practice.
    Last, we must strengthen and provide education and 
navigational resources for the veterans to help them better 
understand their care more efficiently and ensuring that they 
receive the best possible care.
    I briefly want to say, and I have listened to this first 
group of testimoneys, and it would be so much easier if you 
just say, okay, Dr. Kruger, please take care of my patient. 
Here is 6 months, you can order your tests, you can order your 
chemotherapy, you can order your biopsy, and I will treat that 
veteran and get them treated clearly, efficiently, and do a 
great job.
    The current system makes me go through so much red tape. 
Before I can even start, a month and a half has gone by.
    I really want to thank you for the opportunity of 
testifying today. I look forward to answering your questions. I 
think this subcommittee has the right idea. We have to put the 
veteran in the center in order to strengthen the program. Our 
job is to work together to help the veteran to get them get the 
care they need.
    Thank you.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Scott Kruger Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much, Dr. Kruger.
    Mr. McIntyre, you are now recognized for 5 minutes for 
delivering your opening statement.

                   STATEMENT OF DAVE MCINTYRE

    Mr. McIntyre. Thank you, ma'am.
    Chairman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member Brownley, and 
distinguished members of the Health Subcommittee, it is a 
privilege to testify before the subcommittee today on behalf of 
all associated with TriWest Healthcare Alliance.
    For me, this is a return to this witness table, having been 
here multiple times in the last 10 years. To those members who 
I have not yet had a chance to meet, I look forward to doing so 
soon and working closely with you on things that matter, 
including in the Marianas and in my home State of Arizona. I 
ask that my written statement be entered into the record.
    Established nearly 30 years ago by a group of nonprofit 
health plans and two university hospital systems, our sole 
purpose since then has been supporting VA and DOD in meeting 
the healthcare needs of the military and veterans' communities 
in our geographic area of operation. Nearly all who work for 
TriWest either served this country or their families served.
    We began a work in support of VA a couple of months before 
the crisis of access in care in our hometown of Phoenix hit the 
media. Armed with a mature and robust network from our 18 years 
of work for the DOD, we quickly went to work to support the VA 
in eliminating the backlogs in needed care. Well, it has been 
quite a journey the last decade. Today, we serve in support of 
VA through the Community Care Network program across a 
geographic space that spans 14 States and the Pacific, 
comprising Regions 4 and 5. Our network has delivered more than 
65 million community care appointments in support of VA.
    Today, we have the privilege of supporting VA in serving 
the needs of nearly 4.7 million veterans through our network of 
over 300,000 credentialed community care providers, offering in 
VA and VA access to care at over 750,000 provider locations. 
Each day, they deliver between 12,500 and 16,275 needed 
appointments, spanning all areas especially. We pay their bills 
in 3 days to an accuracy rate in excess of 99 percent.
    We have been working a number of initiatives 
collaboratively with VA in our markets to demonstrate the art 
of the possible through a tighter partnership to strengthening 
VA and allowing them to fully leverage us for the benefit of 
veterans that reside in their area. I think of two markets to 
highlight that promise, the valley in Texas and Montana, as 
they are leading the way.
    Second, we are working with many of the VISNs and VA 
Medical Center VA Medical Center (VAMC) in our area who have a 
responsibility to try and make things more efficient in terms 
of how we are doing our work, all with an eye toward how do we 
do appointment scheduling more effectively between us and what 
provider changes need to be made that impact care delivery in a 
positive way.
    Fourth [sic], many more collaborative initiatives have been 
underway in our geographic area of responsibility, all with the 
goal of effective refinement to our collective performance. In 
fact, next week, we in the VA team are gathering for 2 days to 
discuss what we want to add to our collective list in our 
further request to improve collective performance.
    Last, I would like to thank this committee and the 
leadership for your focus on fixing once and for all the rule 
that forces us to reject provider claims that arrive 6 months 
after the date of service rather than allowing 12 months, as is 
the case for TRICARE, Medicare, Medicaid, and the private 
insurance market. It is beyond time that this gets fixed and 
that we execute properly and promptly the change once it is 
law.
    We are proud of the progress that we have made together 
over the past decade. It has been painful for many of us, but 
we have made progress. Yet we all know that work remains to 
achieve our true potential of delivering fully for this 
generation's heroes. As we know, this committee is focused on 
the refinements necessary to ensuring that what was envisioned 
in the yearlong bipartisan effort that led to the passage of 
the MISSION Act and the authorities and the resources that have 
followed in the years since is going to be delivered on.
    From all of us associated with TriWest, we look forward to 
doing our part in collaborating with this committee to respond 
to those adjustments believed necessary to achieve our 
collective potential so that our Nation's heroes, their 
families, caregivers, and survivors receive that which we owe 
them.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Dave McIntyre Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Mr. McIntyre.
    We have votes at 4:30, so I am going to remind our 
witnesses to be within their 5-minute timeframe. I am also 
going to remind all members that I will be gaveling them out at 
the 5-minute interval. I thank you.
    Mr. Weinberg, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to 
deliver your opening statement.

                    STATEMENT OF ED WEINBERG

    Mr. Weinberg. Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member 
Brownley, Ranking Member Takano, and distinguished members of 
the subcommittee, good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity 
to discuss OptumServe's role as the third-party administrator 
for the VA CCN program in Regions 1, 2, and 3, where we have 
been supporting veterans' choice and access to care for nearly 
6 years.
    As a combat veteran, retired Army officer, and a proud 
father of a soldier, I have a deep understanding for the 
sacrifices made by our Nation's veterans and their families. I 
am deeply connected to our purpose, and I am also committed to 
the success of the entire VA health ecosystem. I certainly 
cannot do it alone. At OptumServe, I am humbled to be 
surrounded by 5,000 great Americans, many of whom have serve in 
the Armed Forces or in the VA or as military spouses and 
caregivers.
    Through the VA CCN program, we have the privilege of 
supporting nearly 6.5 million veterans across 36 States, 
Washington, DC, the U.S. Virgin Islands, and Puerto Rico. We 
are making a clear difference.
    With our robust network of providers, nearly 2.4 million 
credentialed care sites, we have facilitated over 159 million 
veteran care visits since we started healthcare delivery in 
2019. We also know that building the provider network is only 
half the story. It is the maintaining of the network for our 
veterans that really matters. Our success in sustaining the 
network is in large part due to adjudicating and paying 
provider claims in 7 days on average, far exceeding the 
requirements set forth by the VA.
    Another critical factor in our success story is the 
collaborative relationships that we have developed throughout 
the veteran community. We enjoy strong relationships with VA at 
every level to ensure veterans have access to the right care 
wherever and whenever they need it, meeting at least monthly 
with each of our 109 VA medical centers and VISNs in our 
regions.
    We hold quarterly program management review meetings with 
VA central office to ensure proper oversight, and we do in-
person updates and engage with our military and veteran service 
organizations. We have consistently worked with Congress, 
ensuring that you and your staff receive quarterly updates on 
the important work that we are leading.
    One of the many ways we manage these relationships is 
through veteran experience officers who provide boots on the 
ground support at each VA medical center and through our 
provider advocates who work between VA and community providers 
to ensure veteran care needs are being met.
    At OptumServe we remain purpose-oriented by keeping the 
veteran at the center of everything that we do. While the total 
numbers of our impact are interesting, I always remind my team 
to focus on the power of one. Each phone call, every pharmacy 
transaction, every response to a VA staff member, that is where 
the magic happens. While we are laser-focused on our stated 
requirements, we also seek ways to help the VA system work 
better for everyone.
    One such area is in medical records retrieval. While we 
fulfill our obligations of educating providers on medical 
record return policies, we do not stop there. We have developed 
mechanisms for VA staff and providers to escalate if they are 
not receiving their records back in a timely manner.
    Additionally, we collaborate with VA leadership to identify 
ways we can improve existing processes. For example, we are 
actively engaged in a VISN 01 pilot with the goal of improving 
the exchange of medical record documentation between community 
providers and the VA.
    I am deeply grateful for the opportunity to share 
OptumServe's unwavering dedication to veterans through the VA 
CCN program. We look forward to our ongoing collaboration with 
the VA, with this subcommittee, and all of the partners that we 
work with. We are making a difference. My belief is that we 
will always be better together.
    Thank you again for the opportunity to be here today, and I 
look forward to your questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Ed Weinberg Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Mr. Weinberg.
    Mr. Faraji, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver 
your opening statement.

                   STATEMENT OF CHRIS FARAJI

    Mr. Faraji. Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member 
Brownley, and distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank 
you for the opportunity to speak to you today. My name is Chris 
Faraji, and I am the president of Wellhive. We are a healthcare 
software company dedicated to modernizing the VA's approach to 
community care scheduling.
    Our technology is not theoretical. It is real, it is 
proven, and it is successful. It was purposely built to address 
the VA's long-standing inefficiencies in scheduling, ensuring 
veterans receive the care from the right provider at the right 
time. This is why VA contracted with us in 2023 to deliver this 
technology nationwide.
    The issues for tackling is one we all recognize. Veterans 
are patiently waiting to get the care they need. Right now, 
scheduling a VA community care appointment is like booking a 
flight before Expedia or Travelocity even existed. Imagine 
needing to fly across the country, but instead of searching 
online, you have to call each airline separately. You are 
waiting on hold, you are checking availability one by one, 
repeating this process until you finally find the flight that 
works. That is exactly how the VA community care scheduling 
system works today.
    Medical support assistants, also known as MSAs, have a hard 
job. They spend hours making calls, waiting for responses and 
mainly piecing together the appointment availability while 
veterans are waiting. This is where things change. With the 
External Provider Scheduling (EPS), it allows schedulers to 
instantly see real-time appointment availability across 
multiple provider groups in the community and book on the spot. 
No more phone tag, no more unnecessary delays, just fast, 
efficient scheduling that ensures veterans get the care they 
need when they need it.
    We know it works. At sites using EPS, MSA schedulers book 
up to four times as many appointments per day, compared to the 
outdated manual methods. The most compelling proof comes from 
those from the front lines. One scheduler calls EPS a godsend, 
saying, ``Before, I spent hours tracking down appointments. 
Now, I see them instantly.'' The time saved is making a world 
of difference for veterans. Another shared, ``Before EPS, I 
would schedule an appointment, only to find out later that the 
provider was not available, forcing me to reschedule. Now, I 
know exactly when and where the veteran can be seen, avoiding 
unnecessary delays.''
    EPS is directly reducing wait times. The current average 
wait to schedule a VA community care appointment is 31 days. 
With EPS and even without the critical integrations into 
systems like HealthShare Referral Manager (HSRM) or Consult 
Toolbox, that wait drops by 33 percent. In some locations, the 
improvement is even more dramatic. For example, Columbia, South 
Carolina, their wait times have dropped by 52 percent. In 
Dallas, Texas, the wait times have fallen by 46 percent.
    Yet despite these results, EPS remains optional. This means 
many schedulers are still relying on outdated methods. Even at 
sites where EPS is fully available, more than half the 
appointments are still booked manually.
    We are encouraged by the direction of this Congress, the 
new administration, and Secretary Collins, who have made it 
clear to the commitment to ensuring veterans receive the care 
they deserve. We at Wellhive stand ready to work side by side, 
Secretary Collins, Congress, VA, to ensure an aggressive 
rollout of EPS.
    Technology is not the obstacle. Bureaucracy is. The 
solution is simple. Let us just cut through the red tape and 
let us fully integrate EPS into the VA's mission across the 
country.
    Before concluding, I would like to briefly address some of 
the comments from the first panel. There is obviously a pattern 
of scheduling that is inherent into the conversations of 
today's questions. Ms. Silas mentioned some of the nuances that 
these schedulers and veterans are facing when they are not able 
to have that information at their fingertips. They are waiting. 
They do not know. They will get back to them; they make these 
telephone calls.
    They also made a comment about the veterans competing with 
nonveterans for these appointment slots. What the EPS Wellhive 
platform has been able to do is provide and equip these 
schedulers with that information so that, hey, if there is a 
provider that does not have availability, they are going to see 
it. If the provider does have availability, they will also be 
able to see it. They are not wasting time calling providers 
that do not have availability in the first place.
    Another point that I would like to make with my remaining 
time is that--you know, from Dr. Morrison. You made mention of 
women's health. We are really excited because this week we were 
able to activate and provide mammograms where they can now be 
scheduled. It is not just providers but it is mammograms, and 
in addition to that we also have imaging.
    I thank you very much for the time, and I look forward to 
your questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Chris Faraji Appears On In The 
Appendix]

    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much, Mr. Faraji.
    I now recognize the ranking member of the full committee, 
Representative Takano, for 5 minutes for any questions he may 
have.
    Mr. Takano. Thank you, Madam Chair, for this courtesy.
    I have a question for both Mr. McIntyre and Mr. Weinberg. 
You were both paid capitated rates that are calculated on the 
basis of how many veterans are directed to your networks. That 
means the more veterans referred to you, the more you are paid. 
Is that right, Mr. McIntyre?
    Mr. McIntyre. We are paid in administra-----
    Mr. Takano. Just answer the question. The more they are 
referred to you, the more you are paid. Is that right?
    Mr. McIntyre. Yes.
    Mr. Takano. Yes.
    Mr. Weinberg.
    Mr. Weinberg. Congressman, we get paid if there is a paid--
--
    Mr. Takano. It is a very simple question. The more veterans 
are referred to you, the more you are paid. Is that right?
    Mr. Weinberg. That is correct for----
    Mr. Takano. Thank you. Do either of you conduct assessments 
of the quality of care delivered by specific providers in your 
networks?
    Mr. McIntyre. Yes.
    Mr. Weinberg. Yes, we do.
    Mr. Takano. You do. You make this information available to 
veterans?
    Mr. McIntyre. We make the information available to the VA.
    Mr. Takano. Mr. Weinberg.
    Mr. Weinberg. We as well make it available to the VA.
    Mr. Takano. Well, I am going to tell you that VA facilities 
are regularly rated on quality of measures, and this public is 
provided to veterans and the public.
    I find it extremely hard to believe that you actually do 
these assessments, since you do not require your network 
providers to return medical records to you or the VA. I heard 
about all the pilots, but, in general, you do not require this. 
I do not know how you could be assessing the quality of care.
    What would you be even using to assess the quality of care? 
Either one of you have a--Mr. Weinberg?
    Mr. Weinberg. Well, thanks for the question.
    What I would probably start with is we have got a 
credentialed network. Quality starts with verification of State 
license. It also--board certifications, education. We do verify 
that with all of our providers.
    Mr. Takano. Well, thank you very much for that, but I do 
not believe it is the kind of rating and assessment that VA the 
does.
    I know that United Healthcare Group has plenty of 
experience reviewing medical records when it is deciding 
whether to pay a claim or make a patient prove medical 
necessity. It astounds me that there is no conditioning of 
payment on the return of records for veterans community care.
    Do you conduct audits to identify whether or not your 
network providers are opportunistically billing VA for 
additional services or requesting additional authorizations 
rather than referring veterans back to the VA for coordinated 
care? Mr. McIntyre.
    Mr. McIntyre. Thank you for the question, sir.
    When we started----
    Mr. Takano. Do you actually do audits regularly, 
systematically of your network?
    Mr. McIntyre. Yes, we do.
    Mr. Takano. You do.
    Mr. McIntyre. If I can----
    Mr. Takano. Mr. Weinberg.
    Mr. McIntyre. If I can answer----
    Mr. Takano. Mr. Weinberg. Mr. Weinberg.
    Please, can I reclaim my time?
    Mr. Weinberg. Congressman, we not only audit, but we are 
audited by independent external auditors quarterly, and those 
data are all provided back----
    Mr. Takano. I would be interested in knowing whether there 
is any opportunistic billing.
    Mr. Weinberg, this question is for you. How many veterans 
currently enrolled in United Healthcare Group's Medicare 
Advantage plans are also receiving care through VA's Community 
Care Program?
    Mr. Weinberg. Congressman, I appreciate the question. I do 
not know the answer to how many.
    Mr. Takano. Well, thank you. I would hope that you would 
get that answer back to the committee within a week.
    Mr. Weinberg. We would be happy to do that.
    Mr. Takano. United Healthcare Group operates one of the 
largest Medicare Advantage programs in the country, so it is 
collecting premiums for veterans. Through its Optum subsidiary 
is collecting payments from the VA under the community care 
program. Veterans receive the care once, but United Healthcare 
ostensibly is getting paid twice.
    Do you think the Federal Government and taxpayers are 
overpaying because of this double-billing practice?
    Mr. Weinberg. Thank you for the question, Congressman.
    No, I do not. I believe that veterans have choices for 
their healthcare and they have earned the right to use the VA, 
as well as any other benefit they----
    Mr. Takano. That is really nonresponsive to my question, 
because it is really about the double billing. United 
Healthcare is receiving Medicare Advantage premiums, but yet 
they are also being--you are also receiving money from the 
community care program. My question was, is not that double 
billing?
    Mr. Weinberg. Congressman, we do not view it that way. We 
view it as the administrative fees that we need to manage both 
programs----
    Mr. Takano. I see. Well, Mr. McIntyre, just because you 
found a loophole to collect from both Medicare Advantage and VA 
for the same veterans care does not make it right. It makes it 
a taxpayer-funded windfall for your company at the expense of 
veterans and the American people.
    Mr. Weinberg, how much revenue does Optum, United 
Healthcare Group, and TriWe---well, for both of you, how much 
does is generate from the community care contracts over the 
past year, 5 years, or the entire time you have held the 
community care contracts? Mr. McIntyre.
    Mr. McIntyre. I would be glad to get you that information, 
Congressman. I would say that----
    Mr. Takano. Mr. Weinberg.
    Mr. McIntyre [continuing]. we used----
    Mr. Takano. Mr. Weinberg, how much money would you say?
    Mr. Weinberg. Congressman, can you repeat the question?
    Mr. Takano. How much money have you contracts generated 
from the community care program?
    Mr. Weinberg. I mean, if you want the specific number, 
Congressman, I would prefer to come back to you with that for 
the record.
    Mr. Takano. Okay. Tens of billions of dollars?
    Mr. Weinberg. I would say yes. I would also remind you, 
sir, that many of those dollars are passthrough dollars so they 
are paying the provider directly. They are not coming back to--
--
    Mr. Takano. Thank you. I yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you. The gentleman's time has 
expired.
    The chair now recognizes Representative Hamadeh for 5 
minutes for any questions he may have.
    Mr. Hamadeh. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    As I sit here in this committee and other committees on the 
VA, I am deeply concerned by my Democrat colleagues' attempt to 
scapegoat community care providers caused by VA mismanagement. 
I feel as if too often some of our colleagues are focused on 
protecting the bureaucracy and not veterans' care.
    As outlined in the staff memo titled, On Most Alarming 
Aspects of VA Document Review: Efforts to mitigate community 
care aimed to trap veterans in a broken VA system limiting 
choice in access.
    Now, Madam chair, at this time I ask unanimous consent to 
insert our staff memo into the hearing record.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. No objection.
    Mr. Hamadeh. Rather than attacking partners trying to serve 
veterans, we must identify solutions to cutting bureaucratic 
red tape and empower veterans through accountable, flexible 
care options. They deserve nothing less.
    Now, my question is for my fellow Arizonian, Mr. McIntyre. 
During COVID, you took over appointment scheduling 
responsibilities from the VA, correct?
    Mr. McIntyre. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Hamadeh. Could resuming centralized scheduling improve 
access?
    Mr. McIntyre. Used to do the things that were to the right 
of the line of demarcation and the VA did the work to the left, 
and that worked. The current system could be refined, but that 
worked.
    The second thing that we did is we did not, back in the 
day, pay a provider's claim until they submitted their medical 
records. We paid the claims in days. Congress felt that it was 
problematic because some providers were complaining about that 
requirement. 85 percent of the doctors were providing the 
medical records to the system under that approach.
    Mr. Hamadeh. What obstacles have you faced building robust 
provider networks due to burdensome VA administrative barriers?
    Mr. McIntyre. We have not faced problems in the development 
of network because of that. It is maintaining this network that 
is challenging. We are working together with the VA to try and 
make sure that those challenges are addressed in the markets 
where we face them.
    Mr. Hamadeh. It seems like you guys are working together 
right now?
    Mr. McIntyre. We are trying----
    Mr. Hamadeh. Okay.
    Mr. McIntyre [continuing]. on both sides.
    Mr. Hamadeh. That is good to hear.
    Now, Mr. Weinberg, what specific steps can the VA take to 
improve the referral process?
    Mr. Weinberg. Congressman, great question. I do believe 
that a lot of what I heard on Panel I in that discussion was on 
point. We are talking about standards, not standardization. I 
think we are reminding ourselves that healthcare is local. I 
believe that there has got to be accountability in the system. 
We need to be measuring, we need to be tracking, and we need to 
be holding folks accountable.
    Mr. Hamadeh. Thank you. I yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Representative Hamadeh.
    The chair now recognizes Dr.--excuse me, Representative 
Brownley, Ranking Member Brownley, for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Brownley. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Mr. Weinberg, I was concerned to read in Dr. Kruger's 
testimony that the reimbursement rates his practice receives 
are often lower than those offered by Medicare.
    Is Optum reimbursing providers that are lower than Medicare 
rate?
    Mr. Weinberg. Congresswoman, thank you for the question.
    We do follow the strict adherence of the payment rates that 
are given to us by the VA, primarily for medical care that 
would be in line with Centers for Medicare and Medicaid 
Services (CMS)--with the CMS rates.
    Ms. Brownley. The MISSION Act clearly states that you must 
be paid by Medicare rates. I am just making sure----
    Mr. Weinberg. Correct.
    Ms. Brownley [continuing]. that that is what you are 
paying.
    Mr. Kruger, is that inconsistent with what you understand?
    Dr. Kruger. The problem is the VA initially--and this has 
been happening for about the last 7 years. It got better about 
2 years ago--basically did not pay any claims for over 5 years 
with multiple submissions and multiple fights between our local 
VA and the VA in Salem. Eventually it was paid. They were 
paying it on the current rates when they approved the bill----
    Ms. Brownley. I see.
    Dr. Kruger [continuing]. even though the treatment was done 
4 years ago.
    Ms. Brownley. I see.
    Dr. Kruger. The drugs then----
    Ms. Brownley. That has smoothed out?
    Dr. Kruger. It has smoothed out.
    Ms. Brownley. Okay. I am--so, again, maybe you are 
clarifying another question that I had, because Mr. McIntyre is 
saying that he is providing a 3-day turnaround on 
reimbursements and you were saying sometimes it is up to 5 
years. There was a lot of inconsistency there. You are saying 
now that that reimbursement process has improved significantly.
    Dr. Kruger. It has improved significantly over the last 6 
months. What has helped significantly was we have been given a 
liaison that we can talk to in Optum, and they are helpful with 
the billing, but they do not really get involved with ordering 
the care for the patient. That is up to the VA community care 
office.
    Ms. Brownley. Thank you.
    To Optum and TriWest, you know, in the first panel, we 
talked about the contract, the delay in the contract, possible 
additions to a future contract.
    Would you have any issue in terms of transparency around 
wait times within community care?
    Mr. McIntyre. I believe personally that there needs to be 
accountability and transparency on both sides with regard to 
wait times. Currently, in our area for last year, it was an 
average 7 days to schedule once the appointment request was 
given by VA, an average of 20 days to be seen and an average of 
15 days to be seen at the date preferred by the veteran.
    Ms. Brownley. Right. I mean, but what we would like to see 
is really, you know, on sort of a monthly basis, to know what--
what is happening in direct care with the VA and what their 
wait times are and what your wait times are, not so much the 
averages over, you know, a long period of time.
    Mr. McIntyre. Agreed.
    Ms. Brownley. That would not be a problem.
    Mr. McIntyre. No. We had talked about years ago the----
    Ms. Brownley. Yes.
    Mr. McIntyre [continuing]. longitudinal look at this and 
needed to be doing that.
    Ms. Brownley. Mr. Weinberg, do you agree or----
    Mr. Weinberg. Congresswoman, I would agree. We do provide 
hundreds of deliverables to the VA, which would include, you 
know, performance for our network adequacy.
    The only other thing I would add is that I think it is 
essential, if we are talking about access and choice for 
veterans, they need to be able to see those data so they can 
make the most informed choice.
    Ms. Brownley. It is clear to me that this EPS system that 
has been described today is music to my ears, honestly. I think 
we need to do a lot of technology outside of the VA to bring it 
in. It seems as though this could be a huge improvement in 
terms of community care scheduling, although it is optional.
    Did the VA decide that it was just going to be optional, 
not--or did you decide that it should be optional? I am trying 
to understand why it cannot be universal across the board, 
because it seems like it really would improve that process.
    Mr. Faraji. Sorry. Was that question to me?
    Ms. Brownley. Well, I think it needs to be to----
    Mr. Faraji. Well, I can answer it. I mean, it is not--it is 
actually not coming from the vendor or it is not coming from 
the TPAs. It is--it is coming directly from VA. The VA----
    Ms. Brownley. Okay. It is VA that is saying----
    Mr. Faraji. They have not--no, there has not been any sort 
of directive to be able to use----
    Ms. Brownley. Okay. For Optum and TriWest, you have not 
asked VA to make it optional, that that would be preferable to 
you?
    Mr. McIntyre. No, ma'am.
    Ms. Brownley. Would--Dr. Kruger, would physicians or 
providers have a problem putting out their schedules in the 
ether?
    Dr. Kruger. For us, that would be a little bit of a 
challenge because different oncologists specialize in different 
areas. A vendor may not know that.
    Basically, if they send us a consult, they will get an 
answer in 48 hours. All oncology is seen within 24 hours of the 
appointment. All hematology is seen within 3 days. That is our 
working----
    Ms. Brownley. Thank you. I yield back. Sorry. I did not----
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you. If you have other questions, 
please submit them in writing. We will make sure that they are 
answered.
    The chair now recognizes Representative King-Hinds for 5 
minutes for any questions she may have.
    Ms. King-Hinds. Thank you, Chair.
    I just have one quick question for Mr. McIntyre since you 
provide--or provide coverage for the Marianas.
    Mr. McIntyre. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. King-Hinds. I know that access to healthcare just for 
the average, ordinary citizen is a challenge because of the 
amount of providers that are available out there, whether it be 
mental health or any type of care.
    What--can you just share a little bit, if you are having 
challenges with insuring, that you have an adequate pool of 
providers to be able to provide, you know, the care that we are 
trying to give to veterans?
    Mr. McIntyre. For your area in the country, ma'am, I made 
two visits to Tinian and Rota and to the Marianas. We have the 
providers in that community under contract.
    As you well stated, it is important to make sure that there 
is a footprint at some of those places like Tinian that does 
not have healthcare to be able to allow Circuit Riders to come 
in and out of that area to meet the needs versus people 
traveling.
    We look forward to working with you and with the VA to pick 
up a topic that we worked on 5 years ago.
    Ms. King-Hinds. Okay. We will speak offline. We will have 
the office reach out. Thank you.
    Mr. McIntyre. Look forward to it.
    Ms. King-Hinds. Appreciate it.
    I yield back, Chair.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Representative King-Hinds.
    The chair now recognizes Dr. Morrison for 5 minutes for any 
questions she may have.
    Ms. Morrison. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you to the 
witnesses for being present to answer our questions today.
    During the first panel, I think you may have heard me ask 
witnesses from VA and GAO about including performance metrics 
that would track access to women-specific procedures in 
community care contracts. Since women's healthcare is 
disproportionately referred to the community, we need to make 
sure that our community providers are delivering this essential 
care. They indicated that they thought it would be an effective 
way to improve care for women veterans.
    Mr. Weinberg and Mr. McIntyre, what do you think about this 
sort of contractual requirement in TPA contracts?
    Mr. Weinberg. Congresswoman, thank you for the question.
    Again, I think that transparency is really kind of rule the 
day here. I think that the more we know and the more veterans 
know, the better choices they will be able to make.
    Ms. Morrison. Thank you.
    Mr. McIntyre. Agree. I think tracking standards and making 
sure that we are being transparent about where we are 
juxtaposed to the standards makes a lot of sense.
    Ms. Morrison. Appreciate that. Thank you, gentlemen.
    Back to the two of you again. We know that community care 
is an essential piece of the puzzle, but we also know that, in 
general, veterans prefer VA care, in part, because many VA 
providers are veterans themselves and understand the military 
and veteran experience.
    I have trained at a VA during my early medical career, and 
I can tell you that even those of us who are not veterans are 
still required to take military cultural competency trainings 
and a myriad of other trainings that are sensitive to veterans' 
needs.
    Do you know what percentage of your network providers have 
completed optional trainings on military cultural competency, 
suicide prevention, and opioid safety?
    Mr. Weinberg. Congresswoman, thank you for the question.
    While I do not know the exact percentage, what I can tell 
you is that we do have a pretty robust suite of training 
offerings, to include a partnership we have just formed with 
PsychArmor who offers additional ones.
    The other thing that I think is really important as we 
think about incentivizing providers to take the trainings is to 
actually start to offer Continuing Education Units (CEU). We 
have done that with a couple of courses now, one for opioids 
and the other one on suicide prevention, and we have got a few 
others in the queue as well.
    Mr. McIntyre. We also have a similar suite of products and 
content, to include VA-provided content, and we have been 
working with PsychArmor for 5 or 6 years.
    I would say that in the area of opioid training, the 
question is do the providers need to take VA-specific training 
or is it sufficient to use their State licensure requirement, 
which is required of all of them.
    I think to the last panel, it would be worth all of us 
taking a look at what reality is and what is occurring in that 
place.
    Ms. Morrison. Thank you. Then one final question, Mr. 
Weinberg. These same trainings that all VA providers are 
required to take are optional but available through Optum, 
right?
    Mr. Weinberg. That is correct, Congresswoman.
    Ms. Morrison. Is there a way for a veteran to know if one 
of your providers has completed trainings about suicide 
prevention in that spirit of transparency?
    Mr. Weinberg. At this time, there is not. We are not 
required to transmit those level of data over in our provider 
data file, but I think it is a great point, and it is something 
that we would be willing to talk through if it becomes a 
requirement from the VA. I think it, again, gives more 
transparency to the veteran as they are making their choice.
    Ms. Morrison. Appreciate that. Thank you for your service.
    I yield back. Thank you.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much, Dr. Morrison.
    I now recognize myself for 5 minutes.
    Dr. Morrison, thank you for that excellent question. I am 
going to pose to the VA that I would also like to see the VA 
stats on how many veterans ask if a VA provider has completed 
and done VA-specific care, whether it is opioid, suicide 
prevention, mental health, or any of the other variety of 
things that continually get brought up in this hearing as a 
difference.
    Again, being a veteran who does not access VA care and I 
prefer to get my care in the community and a community 
provider, we want the best care for veterans where veterans are 
located.
    Mr. Faraji, I am going to actually go to you first because 
the reason you are here is actually the point that Ranking 
Member Brownley made. Given the success of External Provider 
Scheduling program, or EPS, do you believe EPS should be 
adopted across all VISNs to eliminate the inconsistent care 
scheduling veterans currently experience?
    Mr. Faraji. Thank you for the question. I absolutely 
believe that it should be rolled out across the country and 
have the equitable care so that there are veterans that do 
not--are not able to experience EPS because it is not live in 
their sites. They are not being able to take advantage of the 
efficiencies that the platform is already doing today for the 
sites that do have it by decreasing wait times, allowing the 
schedulers to be even more productive.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. I have no fiduciary interest in you or 
your product, but--however, would such a scheduling platform be 
beneficial even within the VA system for scheduling 
appointments?
    Mr. Faraji. I am sorry. What was that?
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Would it be beneficial even within the 
VA, not just in community care, to schedule such a platform to 
schedule appointments?
    Mr. Faraji. Yes, that is correct. We actually did a pilot 
in January 2023 where we actually integrated into VISN 7 and 8 
with 15 instances of Veterans Health Information Systems and 
Technology Architecture (VistA), and we were able to 
demonstrate to be able to see across those VistA instances and 
be able to compare that availability with those providers.
    The goal would be to then add on the Community Care Network 
to be able to give you the apples-to-apples comparison, which 
the comment that you made earlier about it is up to the veteran 
if you want to have the VA care or community care because they 
are both at the point where it is--they are further out, right. 
Being able to have that.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you for saving me. That was a big 
faux pas. I am never supposed to ask a question I do not know 
the answer to, and I did not know the answer to that question. 
Thank you that it worked out well for us.
    Dr. Kruger, could you share some of the difficulties you 
have experienced with sending and receiving medical records to 
the VA?
    Dr. Kruger. Thank you. Sending--we do send the records. I 
do not know where they go to, but we do fax them. That is the 
only way we are supposed to send them. Our communication 
systems and computers do not talk to the VA. In terms of 
receiving records, the VA in my community says that we are 
their last priority, and they will get around to it when they 
can.
    The difficulty that I have of taking care of patients is 
that, if I have to do a CAT scan, the VA determines where it is 
going to be. I do not know where it is going to be. I do not 
know where to get the results. I have to wait for the VA to 
tell me it has been done and to give me the results. Very 
difficult if I find out it has been done at one of the military 
hospitals and I am told it is a Health Insurance Portability 
and Accountability Act (HIPAA) breach, even though I am the one 
who ordered it, it is really the VA who ordered it, but I 
cannot get the results.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much for that. It sounds 
like there is some work we have to do on both ends on the 
medical records and also to have interoperability, which may be 
beneficial rather than faxing.
    Mr. Weinberg, how do--excuse me. How do delays--I know it 
was Dr. Braverman who had the cold, but I am the one that is 
stuttering.
    How do delays in VA referral authorizations impact your 
ability to provide timely care for veterans?
    Mr. Weinberg. Yes. Madam Chair, thanks for the question.
    You know, one of the things that we try to do is make sure 
that there is as much coordination between us and the VA as 
possible. I go back to my statements about relationships at the 
central office level, VISN level, VA medical center office, to 
include sitting down and doing network adequacy meetings every 
single month. You know, the impact for me, it is not about our 
organization. It is really about the veteran. What we--what we 
are trying to do is help make that go as fast as possible.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you. I yield back.
    Ranking Member Brownley, would you like to make any closing 
remarks?
    Ms. Brownley. Well, I will just be brief. I think that this 
has been an important meeting, and I am glad you have called 
it. I think we still--there is still a lot for us to learn and 
to understand. Now that we have a delay in this contract, I 
hope that we can take the time to think about what can be 
included in the contract to improve services for our veterans.
    I think this EPS system, I think, is--should, you know, be 
universal across the board, and if it can be internal within 
the VA, I think we need to do that. I mean, this could be a 
huge, huge improvement just by doing this.
    I think, you know, we still need a lot--I think we still 
need more hearings and a deeper understanding of where the 
right balance is. This is what I continue to say over and over 
and over again in these hearings is the right balance between 
community care and VA care. You know, where is that--where is 
that balance?
    I took offense to Dr. Murphy saying that I am being 
critical, always continuing to be critical about community 
care. That is quite the opposite. I believe that the community 
care is an essential part, which I even said in my opening 
comments, but community care is essential to the success of the 
VA in providing services to our veterans when they need it and 
where they need it.
    I just think that we have got to be clear about the 
direction that we are going in and trying to find that right 
balance. I mean, I would wonder from really the two--two 
providers here, Optum and TriWest, if you had a huge increase, 
a very significant increase in patients, you know, over a 
period of time, is that something that you could actually 
handle? You know, I do not know if you----
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. You want to submit that question for the 
record?
    Ms. Brownley. Thank you. That is a question that I would 
really like to have answered.
    I will yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much, Ranking Member 
Brownley.
    I would like to thank everyone for their participation in 
today's hearing and for the great discussions we have had on 
this important topic.
    I also would say I would be happy to accommodate Ranking 
Member Brownley on having more hearings on community care and 
on this topic because, as I stated earlier, our veterans' 
biggest barrier to receiving the care they deserve should not 
be the VA itself.
    Today's hearing reinforced the importance of the clear 
roles and responsibilities within the community care program 
and the need to focus on solutions that work for veterans, such 
as what we heard today with Mr. Faraji and Wellhive, and it 
focuses on the veterans and not on the people who run the 
system.
    I look forward to working with Secretary Collins and the 
VA, Dr. Braverman especially, to ensure the high-quality care 
is delivered to our veterans.
    The complete written statement of today's witnesses will be 
entered into the hearing record.
    I ask unanimous consent that all members have 5 legislative 
days to revise and extend their remarks and include extraneous 
material.
    Hearing no objection, so ordered.
    I thank all members and the witnesses for their attendance 
and participation today. The hearing is now adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 4:31 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
      
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                         A  P  P  E  N  D  I  X

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                    Prepared Statements of Witnesses

                              ----------                              


                 Prepared Statement of Steven Braverman

    Good afternoon, Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member Brownley, 
and Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for inviting me to discuss 
how VA ensures that Veterans have access to the excellent, timely care 
they have earned. I am accompanied by Dr. Sachin Yende, Chief Medical 
Officer of the Office of Integrated Veteran Care, Veterans Health 
Administration. We come to work every day with one goal in mind: to 
serve Veterans, their families, caregivers, and survivors as well as 
they have served our country.

Expanding Health Care Access for Veterans

    At VA, we prioritize Veterans. We have expanded health care 
services throughout VA facilities, thereby increasing our capacity to 
provide direct care across many regions. We see community care as an 
integral part of VA care. The Department supports Veterans in choosing 
between receiving care directly from VA facilities or from community 
providers, as outlined in P.L. 15-182, the VA Maintaining Internal 
Systems and Strengthening Integrated Outside Networks (MISSION) Act of 
2018. Our integrated approach to total Veteran health is based on the 
idea that Veterans have earned the right to choose world-class health 
care services when and where they need them as authorized by law. Our 
network of community care providers effectively bridges the gaps 
between Veteran needs and the limitations of VA's direct care system.
    Congress provided authority to VA under the MISSION Act that 
extended community care access for Veterans. In 2019, VA began 
implementing the MISSION Act and has since referred over 5.4 million 
unique Veterans to community care providers. Veterans have accessed 
more than 228 million community care appointments. The enactment of 
P.L. 117-168, the Sergeant First Class Heath Robinson Honoring our 
Promise to Address Comprehensive Toxics (PACT) Act of 2022, enabled VA 
to expand its reach and provide health care to even more Veterans. 
Since the PACT Act was signed into law in August 2022, nearly 900,000 
Veterans have enrolled in VA health care. The combined results of 
empowering Veterans to choose providers authorized by the MISSION Act, 
in conjunction with the expanded enrollment following enactment of the 
PACT Act, has resulted in VA delivering 78.8 million appointments in VA 
facilities along with 53.6 million appointments in the community since 
August 2022. This unprecedented enrollment and care delivery growth has 
resulted in the greatest number of Veterans receiving the world-class 
health experiences they have earned.

Enhancing Community Care Coordination

    With the rapid expansion of community care eligibility under the 
MISSION Act, the Department improved its ability to accommodate the 
growing number of Veteran patients referred to our community providers. 
Once community care eligibility is established, VA's referral process 
includes measures to ensure each Veteran achieves a positive outcome.
    Referrals begin when VA receives a request for community care, 
managed through the HealthShare Referral Manager (HSRM) system. The 
HSRM system is used by facility community care staff to generate 
referrals and authorizations for Veterans receiving care in the 
community. Clinical and community care staff at VA medical centers, 
outpatient clinics, community-based outpatient clinics, and Veterans 
Integrated Service Network (VISN) offices use this solution to enhance 
Veteran access to care. Each facility's Community Care Integrated Team 
(CCIT) determines the appropriate level of care coordination for each 
Veteran using VA's Screening Triage Tool to aid in standardizing 
episodes of care. The Screening Triage Tool allows Veterans to complete 
clinical screenings from any connected device. Patients can report 
symptoms or complete standardized screening questions before their 
medical appointments, which results in a more efficient visit. Together 
with community providers, CCITs develop an individualized care 
coordination plan with the Veteran and their care team. Third-Party 
Administrator (TPA) services include scheduling, process navigation, 
and other follow-up activities. Care coordination involves assessing 
the complexity of care needs for Veterans receiving community care, 
care delivery, and returning health records back to VA.

Role of Third-Party Administrators

    TPA's play a crucial role in the VA Community Care Network by 
locating community providers who can provide timely, quality care. TPAs 
also process care claims from these providers and work to schedule 
appointments and support other technical aspects of Veteran care 
coordination. The CCIT facilitates collaboration across each component 
of the care coordination process. TPA actions streamline information 
flows among Veterans, CCITs, VA providers, and community providers. 
After an episode of care concludes, the CCIT connects with the Veteran 
to ensure all services were performed appropriately. The CCIT also 
facilitates any necessary patient care handoff, closing the consult.

Enhancing Veteran Health Care Through Innovative Technology

    As VA advances its mission to care for Veterans, we continually 
seek innovative approaches to the future of Veteran health care in the 
community. A key component of implementing change is effectively 
communicating Veteran needs among various stakeholders. To this end, 
VHA is transitioning from a blended network of call centers to a 
standard, enterprise-wide system called VA Health Connect. This 
clinical contact center modernization supports in-person care and 
continues to utilize telehealth capabilities, a core component of VA 
Health Connect. Through VA Health Connect, Veterans can engage with 
health care delivery at their convenience, any time or day, to discuss 
health concerns with a nurse. Veteran patients are empowered to contact 
medical support assistants for help with scheduling appointments. 
Veterans also have a communications channel with pharmacists to refill 
prescriptions and, when clinically appropriate, can meet with a 
provider via video appointment.
    VA Health Connect is just one component of a technology 
modernization effort well underway, with anticipated completion in the 
next 2 years. Additionally, we are deploying Clinical Resource Hubs to 
provide virtual care options, increasing access to VHA services when 
local facilities face limitations in care or service capabilities.

Building Trust and Advancing Toward a Future of Quality Services

    VA is a trusted Veteran health care provider, furnishing high-
quality care that surpasses our private sector counterparts. Veterans 
notice the difference. In Fiscal Year (FY) 2024, VA internal survey 
data showed an unprecedented trust rate of 92 percent in the 
Department's health service delivery, surpassing our private sector 
counterparts. Our longstanding relationship with Congress, and with 
this Subcommittee specifically, has resulted in nearly 70 percent of VA 
hospitals receiving 4 or 5 stars in the Overall Hospital Quality Star 
Ratings by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, compared to 
only 41 percent of non-VA hospitals. This achievement highlights our 
opportunity to further enhance care for Veterans.
    Despite our successes, we acknowledge the need for process 
improvements to continue achieving positive outcomes for those who have 
taken on the mantle of protecting freedom. Building and maintaining 
trust with Veteran stakeholders is crucial for enhancing health 
outcomes. In 2019, VHA underwent transformational modernization, 
becoming a High Reliability Organization (HRO) led by VHA's HRO 
Steering Committee. Utilizing HRO practices results in fewer than 
expected accidents or harmful events, even in complex, high-risk 
environments where minor errors can lead to tragic results. VA 
established trust among its leaders and staff by implementing this 
effort. This transformation to an HRO unleashed incredible talent and 
commitment within our system and strengthened trust in VA from Veterans 
and the American people.
    We are committed to improving safety and quality of care in VA 
facilities and our network of community providers. VISNs and medical 
centers are advancing toward HRO maturity, which is defined as 
instilling an organization-wide commitment to a zero--harm approach to 
medical safety that aims to operate care centers without exposing staff 
or non-staff to injury through the implementation of systems.
    In Fiscal Year 2024, VA conducted more than 127.5 million 
healthcare appointments between direct care and community care, a 6 
percent increase over the previous year's record volume of 119.8 
million appointments. Thanks to our network of providers, we also 
decreased wait times while delivering more care to many Veterans, 
caregivers, and survivors.

Conclusion

    Madam Chair and Ranking Member Brownley, thank you for your 
continued dedication and leadership. We are pleased to share our 
efforts to enhance medical outcomes for our Veterans, who served to 
safeguard the American way of life. My team and I look forward to 
today's discussion.

 [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Introduction

    Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member Brownley and Distinguished 
Members of the Health Subcommittee, it is a privilege to testify before 
this Subcommittee as it examines the roles and responsibilities of the 
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), Third-Party Administrators (TPAs), 
and community care providers in administering VA community care. Thank 
you for your principled leadership and unwavering commitment to 
ensuring America's Veterans receive timely access to the high-quality 
care they deserve, both within VA health care facilities and in the 
Community Care Network (CCN) that supports VA when it is unable to 
provide that care directly.

Background on TriWest

    Established nearly 30 years ago by a group of non-profit health 
plans and two university hospital systems, TriWest Healthcare 
Alliance's sole purpose has been supporting VA and the Department of 
Defense (DoD) in meeting the health care needs of the military and 
Veteran communities. Since inception, we at TriWest have worked 
collaboratively with the Federal Government agencies we have been 
privileged to support to fully understand their unique requirements, 
down to the local level, to meet the health care needs of military 
service members, their families, retirees and Veterans. Our mission has 
been - and continues to be - doing Whatever it Takes!  to ensure our 
Nation's heroes and their families have ready access to needed care 
when the Federal systems on which they rely are unable to meet their 
needs directly.
    Our first 18 years were spent supporting DoD in standing up and 
operating the TRICARE program in a 21-State area. I am proud of the 
work we did to assist DoD in implementing and refining TRICARE to meet 
the needs of millions of TRICARE beneficiaries across the western 
United States who relied on us for services and support. The first 24 
months was neither an easy nor painless road, which involved a 15-month 
preparation for the startup of TRICARE and 9 months to stand up the 
program before the demand for services arrived. Getting to success in 
TRICARE, just like other new large health programs (e.g., Medicare and 
Medicaid), took working closely with DoD and Congress. Through this 
partnership, TriWest, DoD and the military services developed many key 
process and program improvements that benefited the entire TRICARE 
community including in such critical areas as behavioral health and 
suicide prevention, as well as case management, disease management and 
cross-contractor continuity of care.
    Our years of experience with TRICARE were essential to our work 
over the last seven and a half years supporting VA's community care 
programs beginning in September 2013, when TriWest was awarded a 
Patient-Centered Community Care (PC3) contract for a 28-State region. 
PC3 was a nationwide program designed to give VA Medical Centers (VAMC) 
an efficient and consistent way to provide access to coordinated care 
for Veterans from a network of credentialed specialty care providers in 
the community when VA was unable to deliver the care directly. With 
only 90 days to begin operations, we immediately tapped into our 
Whatever it Takes!  ethos and our strong commitment to partnership and 
leveraged our long-standing relationship with community providers to 
deliver a network and service operation designed specifically to 
support the VA health care system across 28 states and the Pacific.

Building VA's Community Care Program

    From the start, PC3 was a dynamic effort as VA and Congress sought 
to refine it. Shortly after access to specialty care from our provider 
network began in January 2014, VA expanded PC3 to include primary care 
providers. During that expansion of PC3, an access to care crisis 
erupted in April 2014 at the Phoenix VA Medical Center which revealed 
the fact that 14,700 Veterans were on a wait list for care at VA. This 
spurred immediate congressional action and led to the enactment of the 
Veterans Access, Choice, and Accountability Act of 2014 (P.L. 113-146) 
in August 2014.
    Based on the short implementation timeframe for the new VA Choice 
Program, and the fact that many in the health care industry said it 
couldn't be done in 90 days, VA turned to TriWest and its other PC3 
contractor to take on the challenge. Working once again in close 
collaboration with VA, we were able to design and implement the Choice 
program within the statutory requirement, by November 5, 2014. In just 
over 30 days, we created the infrastructure, hired and trained hundreds 
of staff, sent Choice cards to 4 million Veterans in our area of 
responsibility, and operationalized a state-of-the-art contact center 
making sure that callers to the toll-free line were greeted by the 
voice of then-Secretary McDonald to underscore the importance of this 
new initiative.
    Then, in September 2018, TriWest accepted another challenge from VA 
- to stabilize and protect VA by expanding our support of VA community 
care nationwide after VA elected not to extend the contract of the 
other PC3/Choice contractor. We accepted the challenge with one caveat, 
that we - TriWest and VA - do it collaboratively to ensure success for 
the Veterans ultimately being served. In just 90 days, after working 
closely with each VA medical center in the new region, we delivered a 
nationwide network of community providers to support VA in serving 9.2 
million enrolled Veterans in all 50 states and territories.
    At its apex, we provided VA with a consolidated network of over 
639,000 individual providers offering more than 1.2 million access 
points of care. Monthly, we received more than 400,000 requests for 
care in the community and handled roughly 700,000 calls. From the start 
of our work supporting VA until the end of Fiscal Year 2019, we 
assisted over 1.9 million unique Veterans, scheduling more than 6.2 
million initial appointments and 10 million follow-up appointments. We 
processed and paid over 19 million health care claims to community 
providers. On average, TriWest processed and paid clean claims within 
18 days in our legacy area, and within 10 days in the expansion states, 
with an accuracy rate of 96 percent.
    Subsequent to our national expansion implementation, we were 
honored to have been awarded the contract for CCN Region 4 in August 
2019 and CCN Region 5 in October 2020. The Region 4 contract was then 
amended to include coverage of the Northern Mariana Islands, American 
Samoa and Guam. We continue to collaborate closely with VA in the 
regions we serve.

VA Community Care Program

    The effectiveness of our partnership with VA is evident in the 
details of the community care services we have delivered to date. Since 
the start of our work supporting VA community care, Veterans have 
received more than 75 million community care appointments through our 
network provided in support of VA.
    We have the privilege of serving nearly 4.7 million Veterans 
through our network of over 300,000 credentialed community providers 
offering Veterans and VA access to care at over 750,000 provider 
locations. The top ten categories of care provided in CCN include 
cardiology, chiropractic care, complimentary and integrative health, 
emergency care, homemaker/home health aide, mental health, 
ophthalmology, orthopedic, physical therapy, and skilled home health 
care. And, we are paying claims on average in 3 days to 99 percent 
accuracy.

Refining VA Community Care through Collaboration

    In our constant effort to better serve VA, local VA facilities, 
Veterans and community care providers, we have worked closely with VA 
on a number of key initiatives designed to improve the Veteran 
experience and the provider experience - both within the community and 
in VA - and to enhance VA's capacity to deliver needed health care 
services. We would like to highlight a few of these initiatives.

    South Texas--In 2017, a collaboration led by the VA Valley Coastal 
Bend Health Care System (HCS) in Harlingen, Texas, and TriWest to pilot 
a high performing, integrated health care network with preferred 
providers in the community resulted in delivering timely, high-quality 
care for Veterans. For years, South Texas Veterans were burdened with 
having to drive eight or more hours to make the 500-mile round trip to 
receive care at the Audie Murphy Memorial VAMC.
    This pilot has resulted in key process improvements: same-day 
community care authorizations; digital sharing of medical records 
between community providers and VA; navigators at preferred provider 
sites who assist Veterans with setting appointments; and better 
transition of care between providers and medical documentation return 
to VA. Only with the commitment and support of other important partners 
were these critical changes achieved including from VA Central Office, 
Veterans Integrated Services Network (VISN) 17 leadership and Community 
Care staff, local congressional offices, Veterans Service Organizations 
and community care providers such as Doctors Hospital at Renaissance, 
Valley Baptist Medical Center, and Harlingen Regional Academic Health 
Center.
    The integration of community care under VA's leading role as 
primary provider and coordinator of Veteran care resulted in reducing 
the hardship on thousands of Veterans traveling hundreds of miles to VA 
for specialty care, and dramatically reduced community care claims 
processing times, dismissal rates and errors.
    This South Texas effort is a good example of the importance of 
integrated VA community care. It means coordinated, quality, and timely 
care closer to Veterans' homes and stronger partnership between VAMCs, 
VA clinics, and community providers.

    Customized network and support--We redesigned our engagements with 
VAMC staff and leadership to achieve greater effectiveness, improve 
issue management, and attain higher satisfaction among our partners at 
VA.
    Though this new model requires resources and reengineering on our 
part, it allows us to provide a more consistent, tailored and direct 
engagement with VA, VISNs, and VAMCs to focus on and continually 
improve core items such as network adequacy, including access by 
specialty by geographic areas, efficient network utilization, timely 
appointment scheduling, and provider changes that may impact health 
care delivery. Equally important, this model also promotes issue 
identification and resolution through close collaboration, careful 
review of relevant information and meaningful feedback. Still in the 
refinement phase, we are pleased to report improved VAMC satisfaction 
with this new collaborative model. VAMCs report greater appreciation 
with the direct engagement and improved timeliness of our feedback, 
which allows them to focus on their own market to meet the health care 
needs of their local Veteran patient population.

    Improving access to behavioral health--A VAMC and VISN team-led 
collaboration along with a dedicated TriWest team worked together to 
improve our network of community behavioral health providers, deliver 
better support to VA facilities through direct engagements, more 
consistently match the right specialty with the right skillset based on 
Veterans' needs and improve Veteran wait times and satisfaction of 
community behavioral health care.
    We worked with four VAMCs including the Jennifer Moreno VAMC in San 
Diego, the Carl T. Hayden VAMC in Phoenix, El Paso VAMC, and Fresno 
VAMC. In this partnership, we worked closely with VAMC staff to create 
a local network of preferred behavioral health providers, create 
markets based on capabilities, improve the speed of appointing, and 
review business processes for efficiency and effectiveness. This joint 
effort had a simple goal of ensuring no Veteran was waiting in line for 
behavioral health care.

    Community provider education and training--Our work in support of 
VA's health care mission also focuses on community provider education 
and training. We will be requiring community providers to certify they 
have reviewed the Opioid Safety Initiative guidelines. Also, in our 
communication with community providers, we continually promote VA 
training and urge network providers to take advantage of free training 
on Veteran culture, preventing suicide through lethal means safety and 
safety planning, and other topics that help providers understand the 
unique needs of Veterans.
    We also provide webinars related to claims submission to improve 
claims payment accuracy and timeliness, appointing and approved 
referrals/authorizations, urgent and emergent care, and other CCN 
processes and procedures.

    Community provider claims--Veterans' access to care in their local 
communities depends in large part on providers being willing to 
participate in CCN, and when needed care is rendered, on ensuring these 
providers are paid in a timely and consistent manner. A primary reason 
for CCN claims denials in the regions we serve (Regions 4 and 5) is the 
statutory requirement under 38 U.S.C. section 1703D(b) that CCN 
providers file claims to VA within 180 days. This requirement is 
inconsistent with Medicare, Medicaid, TRICARE, and the private sector, 
which all allow up to 1 year for the filing of a claim to be considered 
timely.
    Despite our efforts to ensure providers understand this VA-unique 
requirement, it continues to create substantial confusion and 
complication for community care providers. Additionally, many provider 
practices have claims submission systems that are set up to meet 
standard 365-day requirements, so the VA-unique 180-day standard 
requires expensive process modifications and/or manual overrides of 
claims submission. And, at the end of the day, those who are unable to 
file within 6 months don't get paid for the care they delivered. 
Obviously, this is inconsistent with keeping a strong and stable 
network.
    As you know, the committees of jurisdiction attempted to address 
this issue in the last Congress. However, the provision to align the VA 
requirement with other Federal programs was removed from VA 
authorization legislation due to a Congressional Budget Office 
projection of the cost to extend the deadline.
    Based on our experience, we know that unless this issue is 
legislatively addressed, it likely will have an impact on community 
provider participation in CCN and thus on Veterans' access to care, 
especially in rural, highly rural, and remote areas. The requirement 
continues to be viewed as a significant administrative burden by many 
community health care professionals. As a result, we believe that VA, 
and especially Veterans, would be better served by adopting the same 
standard used by other Federal programs and private health plans - a 
timely filing requirement of 1 year.
    We appreciate Chairman Bost for including this modification in the 
ACCESS Act of 2025. We strongly encourage Congress adopt this change. 
Doing so will result in increased provider satisfaction, reduced re-
work by all parties, and unnecessary delays in claims payment.

Closing

    Through nearly three decades of operating in support of DoD and VA, 
we have steadfastly sought to work very collaboratively to deliver 
tailored solutions designed to best meet the needs of those we serve. 
Through these efforts, we have developed crucial experience in helping 
these systems implement and mature their programs to provide timely and 
convenient access to quality health care services. We have honed 
expertise in navigating and supporting the department that was created 
to serve the needs of Veterans with the essential services they 
deserve. This is sacred work for us. Our mission is to serve those in 
need, ensuring they have access to the right services and health care 
providers while also supporting community care providers fully as they 
serve the needs of our nation's heroes. We know what it takes and will 
continue to do Whatever it Takes!  to flex in support of these systems 
that are critical to meeting the needs of those who sacrifice so much 
on our behalf.

                                 

                   Prepared Statement of Ed Weinberg

    Chairman Bost, Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member Takano, 
Ranking Member Brownley, and members of the sub-committee, thank you 
for the opportunity to join you today to discuss the U.S. Department of 
Veterans Affairs (VA) Community Care Network (CCN.) I am the Chief 
Executive Officer of Optum Serve, the Federal health services business 
of UnitedHealth Group (UHG).
    I am pleased to submit this written statement for the record 
regarding Optum Serve's work administering the VA's CCN program in 
regions 1, 2, and 3, since 2018 which provides a comprehensive, high-
quality approach to supporting Veterans' choice and access to the care 
they have earned.
    On behalf of the dedicated women and men at Optum Serve, who 
tirelessly work to deliver solutions that meet the health needs 
throughout the Federal Government, we are thankful for our partnership 
with the VA, and our collaboration with Veterans and their caregivers, 
Veteran Service Organizations, community providers, and our exceptional 
program partners.
    As a combat Veteran, retired Army officer, and proud father of a 
Soldier, I fully recognize the magnitude of the selfless sacrifices 
made by our Veterans and their families. Because of this, I am deeply 
committed and laser focused on the success of the entire VA health 
system, inclusive of the VA Community Care Program and Optum Serve's 
role and responsibility in ensuring access to quality care for our 
Nation's Veterans. Our commitment is not only demonstrated by meeting 
and exceeding our requirements across all three regions, but also 
through the partnership we have fostered with VA at every level, and by 
building trusted relationships with Military and Veteran Service 
Organizations. The invaluable feedback from these key stakeholders 
offers us a sharper lens as we seek to continuously fine-tune and 
tailor our services to improve the Veteran's experience.
    Optum Serve is honored to support health programs that touch 
virtually every point in a Veteran's journey, from the time they raise 
their right hand to take the oath until the time they separate from 
military service and return to civilian life as a Veteran. Here are 
some of the programs that we proudly support:

      U.S. Military Entrance Processing Command: Providing 
specialty consult exams in support of the U.S. Military's recruitment 
mission.

      Military Health System Nurse Advice Line: Managing the 
Military Health System's 24/7/365 Global Nurse Advice Line for active-
duty service members, retirees, and their families.

      Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) Compensation and 
Pension Exams: Ensuring quality and timely exams for Veterans and 
transitioning military service members through the VBA Medical 
Disability Exam program.

      VA CCN Program: Delivering quality care in the community 
in regions 1, 2, and 3, when and where a Veteran needs it.

    Our position supporting Department of Defense (DoD) and VA programs 
throughout this entire lifecycle offers Optum Serve a truly unique 
perspective as we work restlessly to enhance the overall quality and 
experience of the members we serve.

Optum Serve's Support of VA CCN

    Since 2019, we have focused on the ever-evolving needs of VA in 
support of improving Veteran access to high quality care through 
continuous network refinement and optimization. Our provider network 
offers a wide range of services including primary and specialty medical 
and dental care services, behavioral health, complementary and 
integrative health care services (e.g., chiropractic, acupuncture, and 
massage therapy), urgent care and transplant services.
    Through the VA CCN program, we have the privilege of supporting 
approximately 6.5 million eligible Veterans across three regions 
comprised of 36 states, the District of Columbia, U.S. Virgin Islands, 
and Puerto Rico. I vividly recall meeting with VA leaders and 
clinicians in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, in June 2019 where we began 
the phased implementation of the VA CCN program and monitored the first 
Veteran referral for care in the community move through our collective 
systems. After we successfully deployed region 1 and were making strong 
progress deploying in regions 2 and 3, the COVID-19 pandemic struck, 
creating significant challenges for us and the entire healthcare 
system. Despite these headwinds, Optum Serve remained undeterred. 
Today, Optum's VA CCN program is making a clear difference in the lives 
of Veterans, having completed over 159 million Veteran care visits 
through our robust provider network of 2.4 million care sites.
    But it isn't just about building the provider network. What has 
become increasingly clear is the importance of preserving the network 
for future Veterans. Timely and accurate reimbursement is crucial for 
maintaining our strong provider network for Veteran care. Therefore, it 
is of highest priority to ensure that community providers, especially 
smaller practices in rural areas, have the positive cash-flow needed to 
sustain their operations. We're pleased to report that we have 
adjudicated over 116 million claims since program inception, and 
providers have been paid in an average of 7 days or less. This 
efficiency supports future Veteran care and helps providers continue 
serving their broader communities.

Improving Veteran Experience & Wellness

    The well-being and experiences of Veterans are the driving force 
behind everything we do. One Veteran's spouse shared a heart-wrenching 
story about how a gun lock, provided by an Optum Serve community care 
provider, saved her husband's life. In a moment of crisis, the gun lock 
caused just enough of a delay for her to realize what was happening. 
Those precious extra minutes allowed her to intervene, preventing 
another tragic loss. Thanks to that brief delay, her husband is still 
here today.
    We share the unwavering belief with this committee and the VA that 
even one Veteran suicide is too many; which is why we do what we do. At 
Optum Serve, we recognize that Veteran mental health is a national 
issue and one of the greatest challenges we must come together to 
solve, and we are working hard to move the needle in several impactful 
areas. To further promote Lethal Means Safety through our community 
providers, Optum Serve partners directly with VA's Office of Mental 
Health. This collaboration aims to prevent Veteran suicide by 
distributing gun locks to community providers, who then give them 
directly to Veterans. Since we began this initiative in September 2023, 
we have distributed over 12,000. Additionally, Optum Serve partnered 
with our broader organization to create and deliver tailored provider 
training courses on topics like Suicide Screenings & Prevention and 
Opioid Safety Training. We also ensured these courses provide 
continuing education credits, which is a great incentive for providers 
to increase participation.

Veteran-Centric Service & Timely Access to Care

    Optum Serve is committed to our partnership with VA to identify and 
solve challenges which require local level relationships between our 
organizations. Even prior to implementation in 2019, Optum Serve 
established Community Care Experience Teams (CCET), comprised of 
Veteran Experience Officers (VEO), to provide on-the-ground support and 
resources to every VAMC and their staff. Optum Serve VEOs maintain 
strong relationships with the local VAMC and Veteran Integrated Service 
Network (VISN) leaders, and each of the VAMC community care offices to 
better meet the needs of the VA at the local level and by extension, 
the Veterans we collectively serve. Additionally, each VISN has an 
assigned and dedicated Optum Serve Provider Advocate who stands ready 
to support with any unique challenges a Veteran may encounter in 
connecting with the care they need.
    One such example of the power and purpose of having dedicated Optum 
Serve VEO and Provider Advocates with a Veteran-centric focus is the 
support recently provided to a Veteran in VISN 16. This Veteran had 
been suffering from debilitating migraines for over a year and had 
recently lost his job. Optum Serve's VEO and Provider Advocate 
collaborated with the VAMC registered nurse to identify an out-of-
network provider who offered an individualized treatment plan that the 
Veteran had not yet tried. This provider agreed to join CCN based on 
the Veteran's case and their onboarding was expedited.. As a result, 
the Veteran received successful treatment and experienced a significant 
improvement in quality of life. This is just one example of how these 
advocates are making a difference in helping the entire system work 
better.
    As VA shifted their focus to fulfill their fourth mission at the 
height of the COVID-19 pandemic, Optum Serve responded to VA's 
immediate need for support with appointment scheduling activities and 
quickly pivoted to develop a scalable solution to meet individual VAMC 
needs. Optum Serve provided high quality appointment scheduling support 
to these VAMCs from February 2021 through October 31, 2024. During this 
period, Optum Serve supported 29 of the 109 VAMCs within our three 
regions, scheduling over 694,000 Veteran appointments with 
participating CCN providers in less than 9 days on average.
    In response to referral surges based on individual VAMC needs, 
Optum Serve quickly adapted by increasing staffing, building 
specialized teams based on category of care and built direct 
partnerships with individual VAMCs to tailor solutions as needed to 
address specific regional challenges and improve care delivery. One of 
our specialized teams was dedicated to supporting Veterans with a 
behavioral health referral. Every Veteran was assigned a highly trained 
Appointment Scheduling Representative (ASR) who helped them identify 
the right provider and schedule their appointment with one of our 
65,000 behavioral health providers at one of the 50,000 available 
locations which include over 1,100 substance abuse centers across all 
three regions. Each VAMC was assigned a newly created Veteran 
Scheduling Experience Officer (VSEO) whose primary role was staying 
connected to local VA staff and ensuring Veterans were appointed with 
the community provider to best suit their health care needs. Optum 
Serve's scalability and automation enabled us to meet the growing needs 
of Veterans while maintaining top-notch performance and service. 
Although VA decided to conclude our appointment scheduling activities, 
we stand ready to support any VAMC should the need arise again.
    Access to care can come in many forms, and the COVID-19 pandemic 
sparked a rapid increase in telehealth services. While still small 
compared to VA's direct telehealth services, the use of telehealth 
through VA CCN has surged from double-digit visits prior to the 
pandemic to over 35,000 per month. This significant growth highlights 
the value Veterans place on the flexibility to receive care when and 
where they need it. To continue this work, license portability is 
essential, allowing a provider to deliver quality telehealth services 
across State lines. We look forward to working with this body to ensure 
they continue to have this choice for future care needs.

Ensuring High-Quality Care

    Delivering high quality care for our Nation's Veterans through the 
CCN program is our top priority. Our rigorous credentialing and 
recredentialing processes ensure providers meet the highest 
qualifications through National Committee for Quality Assurance (NCQA) 
accreditation. Optum Serve has demonstrated our unwavering commitment 
to excellence by consistently achieving 98 percent or higher on our 
monthly credentialing audits conducted by VA. Through our ongoing 
monitoring of potential provider sanctions and exclusions, and taking 
appropriate actions based on the data, we uphold our dedication to 
delivering superior healthcare services to our Veterans. This 
relentless pursuit of excellence underscores our network's reputation 
in delivering quality healthcare. Our network of providers also stands 
out for its exceptional commitment to quality, and consistently far 
exceeds the VA's high-performing provider (HPP) benchmark of 10 
percent. In fact, across all three regions over 60 percent of Optum 
Serve's eligible network has been recognized as a HPP as of December 
31, 2024.
    Optum Serve is firmly invested in upholding the highest standards 
by offering a clear pathway for reporting concerns about patient 
safety, harm, quality-of-care, and any deviations from national care 
standards through our Potential Quality Issue (PQI) process. Our 
Clinical Quality Department thoroughly reviews every PQI reported by 
Veterans their families, caregivers, VA staff, and providers. 
Additionally, our Clinical Quality Department proactively utilizes 
measures from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) 
Hospital Acquired Conditions (HAC) and Hospital Acquired Infections 
(HAI), as well as Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality's (AHRQ) 
Patient Safety Indicators (PSI) to identify, and address Veteran care 
concerns.
    Optum Serve's Clinical Quality program is devoted to improving care 
by reducing harm, sentinel events, serious reportable events, and 
medical errors. A PQI and/or Optum's claims data mining efforts may 
result in a provider being reviewed by one of Optum's Peer Review 
Committees (Medical-Surgical, Behavioral Health, or Dental). Optum's 
Clinical Quality team conducts regular PQI reviews and facilitates 
monthly Peer Review Committee meetings to ensure provider adherence to 
clinical standards and implement corrective actions as needed. If an 
Optum Serve provider does not engage in quality improvement efforts, 
the Peer Review Committee may make the recommendation to remove the 
provider from the network. It is important to highlight that a non-
voting VA representative is invited to all committee meetings to ensure 
transparency in the Veteran safety and quality process within the 
Community Care Network. Additionally, to support VA's desire to have 
real-time awareness of clinical quality cases moving through the 
system, we produced a highly touted dashboard to assist VA users with 
tracking, and receiving quality information in near real-time which 
allows for enhanced management and coordination of quality oversight 
between Optum Serve and VA.
    Achieving quality outcomes for Veterans' health depends directly on 
the quality-of-care delivery. A key component in this process is the 
Veterans' medical record. Optum Serve educates all community providers 
on the importance of returning medical records to VA in a timely 
manner. The requirements regarding medical documentation are 
specifically outlined in the Optum VA CCN Provider Manual, which is an 
extension of every provider's contract. We also reinforce this 
information through various provider education modalities including 
virtual trainings with an Optum Serve Provider Advocate, medical 
documentation requirements fact sheets, and our quarterly Optum VA CCN 
medical and dental newsletters. To best support VA, Optum Serve 
established a standardized process whereby VA may escalate a request 
for provider education in the event medical documentation has not been 
received. Optum Serve's Provider Advocate team then conducts targeted 
educational outreach to the identified provider.
    We are aware there are current barriers with this process and have 
partnered with the VA to identify and implement efficiencies. We 
believe more needs to be done to safeguard seamless sharing of these 
records between providers and the VA by streamlining the available 
pathways to transmit records and stronger oversight to verify records 
have been sent timely in order to create the coordination of care our 
Veterans deserve.

Partners in Serving the Veteran Community

    We recognize that the well-being of our Nation's heroes extends 
beyond the services we provide. To further our mission of ensuring the 
holistic well-being of Veterans, Service Members, and their families, 
Optum Serve has partnered with numerous Veteran and Military Service 
Organizations. Through these partnerships, we provide resources to 
address the physical, mental, and emotional health care needs of the 
military and Veteran community. Optum Serve has long-standing 
partnerships including numerous Veteran centric service organizations. 
During our quarterly Program Management Review (PMR) with VA 
leadership, we have coordinated a variety of engagements that emphasize 
our commitment to the Veteran community. For example, Optum Serve and 
VA leaders greeted Honor Flight Veterans from Missouri when they 
arrived at the WWII Memorial in Washington D.C., we tie-dyed shirts 
with Veterans who reside at a VA Community Living Center, we visited 
with Veteran caregivers at the South Carolina Fisher House and recorded 
individual Veteran stories which are permanently stored at the Library 
of Congress as part of the Veteran History Project. Through these 
partnerships, we strive to create a robust support network that 
empowers Veterans and their families to lead healthier, more fulfilling 
lives while also heightening the sense of purpose and commitment of our 
staff.

Closing

    We strongly share this Committee's dedication to improving the 
lives of Veterans and the well-being of our Nation's heroes, which is 
at the center of all we do. Optum Serve has had the distinct honor to 
work with this Committee through the passage and/or the implementation 
of landmark legislation including the MISSION Act, PACT Act, Cleland 
Dole Act, and most recently the Elizabeth Dole Act as Congress has 
evolved and improved Veteran benefits and the VA's care ecosystem. We 
stand ready to continue working with this Committee and the rest of the 
119th Congress on future legislation aimed at improving the benefits 
and services for our Veterans.
    In closing, I am humbled and deeply grateful for the opportunity to 
share this statement, highlighting Optum Serve's unwavering dedication 
to Veterans through the VA CCN program. We remain steadfast in our 
commitment to enhancing the experiences and outcomes for those we 
serve. Our passionate and devoted team eagerly anticipates ongoing 
collaboration with the VA, this sub-committee, and all our partners. 
Together, we will ensure that our Nation's heroes receive the 
exceptional health care they have rightfully earned and truly deserve.

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                       Statements for the Record

                              ----------                              


               Prepared Statement of The American Legion

    Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member Brownley, and distinguished 
members of the subcommittee, on behalf of National Commander James A. 
LaCoursiere Jr. and more than 1.6 million dues-paying members of The 
American Legion, we thank you for the opportunity to comment on the 
Department of Veterans' Affairs' Community Care Program. The American 
Legion is guided by Legionnaires who dedicate time and resources to 
serving veterans and their families. As a resolution-based 
organization, our positions are guided by almost 106 years of advocacy 
that originate at the grassroots level of our organization. Every time 
The American Legion testifies, we offer a direct voice from the veteran 
community to Congress.
    The American Legion (TAL) advocated for the Maintaining Internal 
Systems and Strengthening Integrated Outside Networks (MISSION) Act of 
2018 as a much-needed relief valve when the VA was unable to provide a 
veteran's healthcare within a reasonable time or distance after the 
2014 Phoenix VA waitlist scandal. As TAL stated in a letter with other 
VSOs at the time, ``[it] would consolidate VA's community care programs 
and develop integrated networks of VA and community providers to 
supplement, not supplant VA healthcare . . . This carefully crafted 
compromise represents a balanced approach to ensuring timely access to 
care while continuing to strengthen the VA healthcare system that 
millions of veterans choose and rely on.'' \1\
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    \1\ DAV Communications. ``VSO Letter Supporting VA Mission Act of 
2018.'' DAV, May 7, 2018. https://www.dav.org/learn-more/news/2018/vso-
letter-supporting-va-mission-act-of-2018/.
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    TAL stands by our view that the MISSION Act is intended to 
supplement - but not supplant - the VA direct care system. The VA 
should remain the center of veteran healthcare with a constant focus on 
improvement--keeping the veteran as their North Star. In December 2024, 
Veterans Affairs and rehabilitation (VA&R) Division Director Cole Lyle 
highlighted The American Legion's staunch support of keeping the VHA as 
the coordinator of care for U.S. veterans. Doing so, however, is 
becoming harder and harder as the VA continues sending more veterans 
into the community with contract oversight spread across multiple areas 
within the VA's Office of Integrated Veteran Care (IVC). With the VA 
now spending more than 39 percent of its healthcare budget on community 
provider reimbursements\2\ and congressional efforts to codify 
community care access standards, setting clear guidelines for contract 
oversight will be a monumental issue as the VA negotiates a new 
community care contract. However, even with clear guidelines for 
oversight, the VA will continue sending a larger number of veterans 
into the community if Congress does not consider and act upon a 
comprehensive plan for infrastructure reform. Congress' disregard for 
the Asset & Infrastructure Review (AIR) Commission, housed within the 
MISSION Act and designed to address VA's long-standing infrastructure 
issues, is a large part of the reason the VA is facing a growing 
community care budget\3\. Important changes in policy to improve 
infrastructure, reduce barriers to accessing care, streamline 
appointment scheduling, support women veterans, and improve 
reimbursement requirements are critical to providing veterans with the 
healthcare they have earned.
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    \2\ ``Veterans Community Care Program: VA Needs to Strengthen 
Contract Oversight.'' GAO Report, August 2024. https://www.gao.gov/
assets/gao-24-106390.pdf
    \3\ ``VA Recommendations to the AIR Commission.'' VA.gov, March 
2022. VA Recommendations to the AIR Commission Home
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    The American Legion conducts regular visits to VA facilities each 
year as part of our System Worth Saving (SWS) program. In these visits, 
we talk to veterans at VA hospitals, along with staff, to find ways to 
work with the VA and Congress to improve veteran outcomes. Access 
standards were identified as an area for improvement. Who qualifies and 
how can sometimes seem unclear, and veterans report facing unexpected 
barriers to actually getting referrals. This goes against the spirit of 
the MISSION Act, which was to provide veterans with closer and timelier 
access to care. Congress and the VA should look closely at codifying 
access standards but also ensuring that veterans aren't going out of VA 
care just to receive care that is further away, a longer wait, or both, 
as we heard about anecdotally multiple times on our SWS visits.
    For many Veterans--especially those who are women--community care 
is the only viable option for specialized care. The VA is not set up to 
provide women veterans with maternity care, obstetric services, or 
fertility treatment, therefore necessitating the use of a community 
provider to access gender-specific care. Lapses in coverage, unclear 
access standards, and lengthy wait times jeopardize the quality of care 
that our female Legionnaires already struggle to receive.
    At the grassroots level, TAL has been interviewing veterans across 
the country, and access to community care under current laws and 
regulations continues to be a systemic issue. TAL met with Lillian 
Moss, a Legionnaire and member of Post 310 in San Diego, CA, who 
highlighted several stark inadequacies of referrals and VA operations. 
In addition to being a survivor of combat and military sexual trauma 
(MST), Lillian was diagnosed with cancer in December 2017. Thanks to 
her VA care, she underwent a double mastectomy in 2020. Her cancer was 
removed, but inadequacies with her follow-up reconstructive surgery 
were left unresolved for years. She described waiting on various calls 
and confirmations that always seemed to be just around the corner and 
just out of reach.
    Lillian further struggled with financial hardship after her local 
VA pulled back her community care referral for her psychologist. 
Devastated at the thought of losing a trusted provider, Lillian was 
forced to pay out of pocket for her desired mental healthcare. She is 
now waiting for what she was told would be another quick call to 
requalify her referral but has been waiting for months with no progress 
made. This is an unacceptable burden to place on veterans seeking 
mental healthcare. For veterans engaged in specialty care, a continuum 
of care is critical to the veterans' well-being. We know how 
challenging transitions can be for members of the veteran community and 
abrupt changes can be devastating to those receiving care.
    Another veteran who receives care from the Portland, Oregon VA, 
Martha Nava, has faced repeated denials and delays for necessary 
medical treatments, including a 3-year wait for back surgery and a 
mismanaged kidney procedure that led to severe complications. Despite 
VA policy stating that community care should be approved in the ``best 
interest of the veteran,'' the patient advocate system has failed to 
provide her with necessary referrals, leaving her trapped in a cycle of 
inadequate care, prolonged suffering, and a lack of accountability.
    When veterans qualify for community care and elect to go that 
direction, that decision should be between a veteran and their 
providers. While current access standards are not codified, they are 
part of VA policy and need to be followed. The Secretary of the VA has 
discussed making changes to access standards in the past to keep more 
care in the VA\4\. While no official changes to access standards have 
been made, there are reports that the VA has been informally 
restricting access\5\. We have heard this on our site visits as well, 
both from veterans and VA employees. Efforts to keep a veteran in VHA 
care should be made before treatment is needed, not at a time when a 
veteran is simply trying to get better. Sidelining veterans with 
bureaucratic roadblocks requiring extra reviews, referrals, and 
conversations does nothing to accomplish VA's mission or improve on it, 
nor does it help veterans.
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    \4\ Kime, Patricia. ``VA Weighs Limiting Access to Outside Doctors 
to Curb Rising Costs.'' Military.com, June 15, 2022. https://
www.military.com/daily news/2022/06/15/va-weighs-limiting-access-
outside-doctors-curb-rising-costs.html.
    \5\ ``Sen. Moran Speaks on Senate floor Regarding VA Decisions That 
Are Limiting Veterans' Access to Care.'' U.S. Senate Committee on 
Veterans' Affairs, June 21, 2024. https://www.veterans.senate.gov/2024/
6/sen-moran-speaks-on-senate-floor-regarding-va-decisions-that-are-
limiting-veterans-access-to-care.
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    Improving access to specialty services in VHA facilities for these 
two veterans would require the infrastructure reforms previously 
highlighted, particularly in urban facilities with large catchment 
populations. These assessments could also address proper staffing 
levels to help alleviate the VA's capacity problems. We have 
continually heard of staff recruitment and retention as an issue on our 
SWS visits. Adequate staffing in all areas helps improve veteran health 
outcomes and increase VHA capacity.
    Furthermore, transportation remains a significant obstacle when it 
comes to veterans getting to their appointments for care in the 
community. The VA has several programs available to help veterans get 
to and from their VA and non-VA appointments such as the Veterans 
Transportation Service (VTS), Beneficiary Travel (BT), Highly Rural 
Transportation Grants (HRTG) \6\, and a new partnership with Uber, Uber 
Health. However, on our SWS visits, TAL found these programs all 
suffered from the same issue: a lack of drivers. Even with funding 
available and programs in place, highly rural catchment areas struggle 
to find enough employees, a problem that exists in nearly all sectors 
in some rural communities. TAL urges Congress to understand there is a 
gap here that cannot be covered by transportation programs in certain 
areas, and to look at providing more in-house services in such 
communities.
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    \6\ US Department of Veterans Affairs, Veterans Health 
Administration. ``Veterans Transportation Program.'' US Department of 
Veterans Affairs, January 12, 2015. https://www.va.gov/healthbenefits/
vtp/.
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    Infrastructure reform, ensuring adequate transportation, and 
addressing provider recruitment and retention are all crucial to 
providing veteran healthcare in an effective and timely manner, and TAL 
urges Congress to address these issues while holding the VA accountable 
for delays and denials of veterans who need healthcare in their 
community.
    We must, in every effort to properly address balancing VA direct 
care with community care, keep the individual veteran as our focus. 
While VA's sheer size means agency consideration must sometimes be 
weighed in policy decisions, its parochial interest must come second to 
those of the end-user.
    Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member Brownley, and all the 
distinguished members of this committee, on behalf of National 
Commander James A. LaCoursiere Jr. and members of The American Legion, 
thank you again for the opportunity to amplify the voice of the 
veteran. It is together with you that we do the great work of making a 
truly modern VA that provides the top-of-the-line healthcare veterans 
deserve. We look forward to working together with you to continue this 
sacred duty.
    For additional information regarding this testimony, please contact 
The American Legion Senior Legislative Associate, Bailey Bishop, at 
[email protected].

            Document for the Record Submitted by Abe Hamadeh
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