[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                     THE ELITE UNIVERSITIES CARTEL:
                  A HISTORY OF ANTICOMPETITIVE COLLUSION 
                  INFLATING THE COST OF HIGHER EDUCATION

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                   SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE ADMINISTRATIVE STATE, 
                    REGULATORY REFORM, AND ANTITRUST

                         COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                        WEDNESDAY, JUNE 4, 2025

                               __________

                           Serial No. 119-23

                               __________

         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
         
 [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


               Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov
               
                                __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
60-624                      WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------     
              
                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                        JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Chair

DARRELL ISSA, California             JAMIE RASKIN, Maryland, Ranking 
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona                      Member
TOM McCLINTOCK, California           JERROLD NADLER, New York
THOMAS P. TIFFANY, Wisconsin         ZOE LOFGREN, California
THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky              STEVE COHEN, Tennessee
CHIP ROY, Texas                      HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr., 
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin              Georgia
BEN CLINE, Virginia                  ERIC SWALWELL, California
LANCE GOODEN, Texas                  TED LIEU, California
JEFFERSON VAN DREW, New Jersey       PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington
TROY E. NEHLS, Texas                 J. LUIS CORREA, California
BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania
KEVIN KILEY, California              JOE NEGUSE, Colorado
HARRIET M. HAGEMAN, Wyoming          LUCY McBATH, Georgia
LAUREL M. LEE, Florida               DEBORAH K. ROSS, North Carolina
WESLEY HUNT, Texas                   BECCA BALINT, Vermont
RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina          JESUS G. ``CHUY'' GARCIA, Illinois
GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin            SYDNEY KAMLAGER-DOVE, California
BRAD KNOTT, North Carolina           JARED MOSKOWITZ, Florida
MARK HARRIS, North Carolina          DANIEL S. GOLDMAN, New York
ROBERT F. ONDER, Jr., Missouri       JASMINE CROCKETT, Texas
DEREK SCHMIDT, Kansas
BRANDON GILL, Texas
MICHAEL BAUMGARTNER, Washington
                                 ------                                

               SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE ADMINISTRATIVE STATE,
                    REGULATORY REFORM, AND ANTITRUST

                   SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin, Chair

DARRELL ISSA, California             JERROLD NADLER, New York, Ranking 
BEN CLINE, Virginia                      Member
LANCE GOODEN, Texas                  J. LUIS CORREA, California
HARRIET HAGEMAN, Wyoming             BECCA BALINT, Vermont
MARK HARRIS, North Carolina          JESUS G. ``CHUY'' GARCIA, Illinois
DEREK SCHMIDT, Kansas                ZOE LOFGREN, California
MICHAEL BAUMGARTNER, Washington      HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr., 
                                         Georgia

               CHRISTOPHER HIXON, Majority Staff Director
                  JULIE TAGEN, Minority Staff Director
                            
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                        Wednesday, June 4, 2025

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
The Honorable Scott Fitzgerald, Chair of the Subcommittee on the 
  Administrative State, Regulatory Reform, and Antitrust from the 
  State of Wisconsin.............................................     1
The Honorable Jerrold Nadler, Ranking Member of the Subcommittee 
  on the Administrative State, Regulatory Reform, and Antitrust 
  from the State of New York.....................................     3
The Honorable Jim Jordan, Chair of the Committee on the Judiciary 
  from the State of Ohio.........................................     5
The Honorable Jamie Raskin, Ranking Member of the Committee on 
  the Judiciary from the State of Maryland.......................     5

                               WITNESSES

Dr. Preston Cooper, Senior Fellow, American Enterprise Institute
  Oral Testimony.................................................     9
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    11
Scott Martin, Partner, Hausfeld LLP
  Oral Testimony.................................................    22
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    24
Alex Shieh, Opinion Writer, The Boston Globe; Publisher, The 
  Brown Spectator; Creator, Trialhouse.com, Brown University
  Oral Testimony.................................................    27
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    29
Julie Margetta Morgan, President, The Century Foundation
  Oral Testimony.................................................    35
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    37

          LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC. SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING

All materials submitted for the record by the Subcommittee on the 
  Administrative State, Regulatory Reform, and Antitrust are 
  listed below...................................................    67

Materials submitted by the Honorable Jerrold Nadler, Ranking 
  Member of the Subcommittee on the Administrative State, 
  Regulatory Reform, and Antitrust from the State of New York, 
  for the record
    An article entitled, ``China Really Wants to Attract Talented 
        Scientists. Trump Just Helped,'' Jun. 4, 2025, The New 
        York Times
    An article entitled, ``The House Reconciliation Bill Makes 
        College Less Affordable--All to Pay for Tax Cuts for 
        Millionaires and Billionaires,'' Apr. 29, 2025, New 
        America
    An article from entitled, ``The number of 18-year-olds is 
        about to drop sharply, packing a wallop for colleges--and 
        the economy,'' Jan. 8, 2025, The Hechinger Report
    An article entitled, ``Declining Enrollment is Leading to 
        School Closures. How Can Districts Limit the Harm to 
        Their Most Vulnerable Students?'' Oct. 5, 2023, 
        Bellwether
    An article entitled, ``Ivy League School's Financial Aid,'' 
        The Ivy Coach Daily
    An article entitled, ``Who's at Fault for Student-Loan 
        Defaults?'' May 13, 2019, Chicago Booth Review
An article entitled, ``Harvard Has Trained So Many Chinese 
  Communist Officials, They Call It Their `Party School,' '' Jun. 
  1, 2025, The Wall Street Journal, submitted by the Honorable 
  Michael Baumgartner, Member of the Subcommittee on the 
  Administrative State, Regulatory Reform, and Antitrust from the 
  State of Washington, for the record
Materials submitted by the Honorable Jamie Raskin, Ranking Member 
  of the Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Maryland, 
  for the record
    A press release entitled, ``Trump University is an Absolute 
        Scam. Get the Facts About Pending Litigation,'' Mar. 4, 
        2016, Rubio Campaign
    An article entitled, ``Congressional Republicans' Proposed 
        Budget Reconciliation Bill Imperils 4.4 Million Pell 
        Grant Recipients,'' May 13, 2025, Center for American 
        Progress
Materials submitted by the Honorable Becca Balint, of the 
  Subcommittee on the Administrative State, Regulatory Reform, 
  and Antitrust from the State of Vermont, for the record
    An article entitled, ``Judge finalizes $25 million settlement 
        for `victims of Donald Trump's fraudulent university,' '' 
        Apr. 9, 2018, ABC News
    An article entitled, ``Trump University settlement finalized 
        by judge at $25 million,'' Apr. 10, 2018, USA Today
Materials submitted by the Honorable Scott Fitzgerald, Chair of 
  the Subcommittee on the Administrative State, Regulatory 
  Reform, and Antitrust from the State of Wisconsin, for the 
  record
    An Press Blog entitled, ``Ivy League Tuition and Fees for 
        2024-2025,'' Ivy Coach Daily
    An Press Blog entitled, ``Ivy Coach: The Curator of Ivy 
        League Admissions Statistics Since the Beginning of Time. 
        Ok, maybe not since dinosaurs.'' Ivy Coach
    A article entitled, ``Students overpaid elite colleges $685 
        million, `price-xing' suit says,'' Washington Post, Dec. 
        17, 2024
    A press release entitled, ``Plaintiffs in Elite University 
        Price-Fixing Case Settle with Caltech and John Hopkins,'' 
        Berger Montague, Jan. 27, 2025
    The Plaintiffs' Memorandum, Andrew Corzo, Sia Henry, 
        Alexander Leo-Guerra, Michael Maerlender, Brandon 
        Piyevsky, Benjamin Shumate, Brittany Tatiana Weaver, and 
        Cameron Williams v. Brown University, California 
        Institute of Technology, University of Chicago, the 
        Trustees of Columbia University in the City of New York, 
        Cornell University, Trustees of Dartmouth College, Duke 
        University, Emory University, Georgetown University, the 
        Johns Hopkins University, Massachusetts Institute of 
        Technology, Northwestern University, University of Notre 
        Dame Du Lac, the Trustees of the University of 
        Pennsylvania, William Marsh Rice University, Vanderbilt 
        University, and Yale University, Case No.: 1:22-cv-00125, 
        Dec. 29, 2024
    A press release entitled, ``Consent Decree Settles Charge of 
        Conspiracy to Restrain Price Competition on Financial Aid 
        Against Major Universities,'' May 22, 1991, The 
        Department of Justice
    An article entitled, ``How to Crush the Ivy League Cartel,'' 
        Dec. 14, 2023, BIG Newsletter
    The Exhibit 18, Henry v. Brown University, Case: 1:22-cv-
        00125, Document 753-18, Dec. 16, 2024
Materials submitted by the Honorable J. Luis Correa, Member of 
  the Subcommittee on the Administrative State, Regulatory 
  Reform, and Antitrust from the State of California, for the 
  record
    An article entitled, ``Trump is crushing America's AI 
        leadership. We still have time to fix it.'' Apr. 23, 
        2025, Orange County Register
    An article entitled, ``JD Vance Wanted to `Aggressively 
        Attack' American Universities. His Wish Has Been Trump's 
        Command,'' Jun. 3, 2025, The New York Times
    A chart entitled, ``Costs of Federally Sponsored Research,'' 
        Dec. 11, 2024, Association of American Universities
    An graphic entitled, ``Driving the Innovation Economy: 
        Academic Technology Transfer in Numbers,'' AUTM
    A graphic entitled, ``Benefiting Society and the Economy: 
        Academic Technology Transfer for 2023,'' AUTM
    An article entitled, ``Federal R&D Cuts Would Be Another 
        (Massive) Unforced Policy Error,'' Apr. 18, 2025, 
        American Enterprise Institute
    An article entitled, ``America's R&D Rethink Threatens Its 
        Innovation Supremacy,'' Apr. 1, 2025, American Enterprise
    An article entitled, ``New American Fortune 500 in 2024,'' 
        Sept. 9, 2024, American Immigration Council
    An article entitled, ``U.S. Scientists Warn That Trump's Cuts 
        Will Set Off a Brain Drain,'' Jun. 3, 2025, The New York 
        Times
    An article entitled, ``These Are the U.S. Universities Most 
        Dependent on International Students,'' May 23, 2025, The 
        New York Times
    An article entitled, ``Losing International Students Could 
        Devastate Many Colleges,'' Apr. 19, 2025, The New York 
        Times

                                APPENDIX

A report entitled, ``Economic Contributions of University/
  Nonprofit Inventions in the United States: 1996-2020,'' Jun. 
  14, 2022, AUTM, submitted by the Honorable J. Luis Correa, 
  Member of the Subcommittee on the Administrative State, 
  Regulatory Reform, and Antitrust from the State of California, 
  for the record

 
                     THE ELITE UNIVERSITIES CARTEL:
                      A HISTORY OF ANTICOMPETITIVE
            COLLUSION INFLATING THE COST OF HIGHER EDUCATION

                              ----------                              


                        Wednesday, June 4, 2025

                        House of Representatives

               Subcommittee on the Administrative State,

                    Regulatory Reform, and Antitrust

                       Committee on the Judiciary

                             Washington, DC

    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in Room 
2141, Rayburn House Office Building, the Hon. Scott Fitzgerald 
[Chair of the Subcommittee] presiding.
    Members present: Representatives Fitzgerald, Jordan, Issa, 
Cline, Gooden, Hageman, Harris, Baumgartner, Nadler, Raskin, 
Correa, Balint, Garcia, and Johnson.
    Also present: Representative Nehls.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Without objection, the Chair is authorized 
to declare a recess at any time.
    I want to welcome everyone to today's hearing on collusion 
in higher education.
    Without objection, I ask unanimous consent for Mr. Nehls to 
be permitted to participate in this hearing, question the 
witnesses if a Member yields him time for that purpose, of 
which I will yield to him five minutes.
    I will now recognize myself for an opening statement.
    According to the National Center for Education Statistics, 
U.S. colleges and universities are $700 billion, a $700 billion 
industry. The Harvard endowment alone, which stood North of 50 
million as of 2023, is larger than the GDP of 120 Nations. Six 
of the eight Ivy League schools have endowments exceeding $10 
billion.
    Ivy League schools should be competing to offer the best 
products at the best possible price. Instead, they collude to 
raise prices and spend their inflated cartel earnings on 
administrative bloat.
    According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, while products 
like cars, clothing, and TVs have become more affordable as 
businesses reduce costs to attract buyers, the cost of college 
tuition and textbooks has risen by more than 180 percent and, 
respectively, continues to go higher. Today, the cost to attend 
an Ivy League school can exceed $100,000 per school year.
    Ever since the Ivy League was established in the 1950s, 
these schools have been focused on exclusivity, maximizing 
profits, and artificially inflated prestige rather than 
expanding access to education and serving students.
    In 1950, Harvard charged $600 a year for tuition. Today 
that number is nearly $60,000. Not only has tuition 
skyrocketed, but these schools are also deliberately keeping 
class sizes small to maintain exclusivity and inflate their 
perceived prestige. Between 1978-2023, while the U.S. 
population grew by just 50 percent, and the number of 
applicants increased by 450 percent, Harvard reduced its class 
sizes by 258 seats.
    Across all Ivy League schools demand has steadily 
increased, yet admissions remain flat. As you can see from the 
graph displayed, although each Ivy League school on average 
receives more than 50,000 applications, it accepts less than 
2,000 students per year.
    These price increases and shrinking class sizes are not 
coincidental. Ivy League schools have a history of coordinating 
pricing practices to avoid competing on costs. In 1958, MIT and 
the eight Ivy League schools formed what is widely known as the 
``Ivy Overlap Group,'' a cartel to fix prices. These schools 
agreed to use a shared formula for calculating financial aid, 
ensuring students admitted to multiple schools would pay the 
same price no matter where they went.
    In 1989, the Department of Justice began investigating 
these practices and, ultimately, filed an antitrust lawsuit. By 
1993, all nine schools had settled.
    In response, Congress adopted Section 568 of the Improving 
America's Schools Act of 1994, granting colleges an antitrust 
exemption provided they did not consider a student's ability to 
pay while making admissions decisions.
    In 1999, elite schools formed a new cartel, the 568 
Presidents' Working Group. The goal was the same: To create a 
shared financial aid formula and not compete for students based 
on price.
    Even with a legal exemption, these elite schools still 
chose profit and prestige over access and fairness. In 2022, 
former students sued many of the Ivy League schools for 
colluding with financial aid formulas that favored wealthy 
applicants.
    In one internal document uncovered through discovery a 
college administrator complained about not being able to find 
enough qualified students with well-off parents to pay the high 
sticker prices. She said, ``Sure hope the wealthy next year 
raise a few more smart kids.''
    Ivy League schools can maximize the price paid by each 
student using detailed financial data collected through the 
College Scholarship Services Profile, or the CSS Profile. It is 
a comprehensive financial aid form that most colleges do not 
require.
    The CSS Profile gives these schools access to sensitive 
information, including family home ownership, savings, 
retirement accounts, and more. With that information, they can 
determine how much a prospective student's family can 
apparently afford to pay and then charge them that amount.
    Despite valuing their degrees at nearly $400,000, having 
multibillion dollar endowments, and receiving billions more in 
taxpayer funding, these schools don't prioritize accessibility 
or quality of education, they prioritize profit and prestige.
    Even though the Ivy League schools no longer have an 
antitrust exemption to coordinate on pricing, tuition continues 
to skyrocket. By setting the industry standard for tuition, the 
Ivy League creates an umbrella effect that allows other 
colleges to charge more than they could in a competitive 
market.
    Today we are starting an overdue conversation about how the 
Ivy League's anticompetitive practices may harm students, 
taxpayers, and, ultimately, our country's future.
    I want to thank the witnesses again for appearing before us 
today. I look forward to your input.
    I will now recognize the Ranking Member Mr. Nadler for his 
opening statement.
    Mr. Nadler. Mr. Chair, before I start my opening statement 
let me mention a personal stake in this.
    I am the first member of my family to go to college. We 
didn't have much money. My father worked at a gas station. I 
was offered full scholarships by two Ivy League colleges: Yale 
and Columbia. I chose Columbia. I never had to pay a cent.
    Mr. Chair, this hearing, like so much else that we have 
done in this Committee under Republican control, takes a 
serious issue and uses it as little more than an excuse to 
launch a decidedly unserious so-called investigation.
    Let's be clear, the cost of tuition at many colleges and 
universities, not just Ivy League institutions, is too high and 
is unaf-
fordable for too many families. The same Republicans who today 
claim to be concerned about the ability of students and their 
families to afford college tuition proudly cast their votes two 
weeks ago for a Budget Reconciliation Bill that would take 
direct aim at student loan programs and other vital student 
aid.
    If they really cared about consumer prices, they would not 
undermine the ability of all students, especially low-income 
students, to access and afford higher education.
    They would not make cuts to Pell Grants that would reduce 
or eliminate access for up to four million students. They would 
not cut student loan subsidies, raising costs for an average 
borrower by up to $200 a month. They would not make student 
loan repayments even more difficult and push more students into 
the predatory private loan market. They would not include 
devastating cuts to Medicaid which would deprive roughly 3.4 
million low-income students of much-needed healthcare.
    Republicans showed us very clearly that their priority is 
tax cuts for billionaires, not affordable higher education. So, 
it's a little difficult to take their concerns seriously today.
    This hearing also comes in the context of the Trump 
Administration's all-out assault on education and research at 
colleges and universities across the country, and particularly 
at Ivy League and other elite universities. The administration 
slashed billions of dollars in research grants to universities 
which will set back technological innovation and medical 
advances by decades, not to mention harming our economic 
growth.
    At the same time, they are revoking student visas and 
sending an unmistakable message to prospective students around 
the globe that they are not welcome. The result is that the 
brightest minds in the world, who once flocked to this country, 
will now move to bring their brains and talents elsewhere.
    This attack on higher education has an even more sinister 
purpose. Its real target is academic freedom. Taking a page 
from the authoritarian playbook, the Trump Administration is 
using every tool at its disposal in a pressure campaign to 
impose its ideologies on independent academic institutions, and 
to bend them into submission.
    Unfortunately, they have a willing partner in the 
Republicans on the Judiciary Committee. Instead of using their 
power as legislators to make education cheaper, more 
accessible, and easier to pay off for all Americans, 
Republicans are using the power of this Committee to aid and 
abet President Trump's ideological war against the very narrow 
slice of higher ed institutions.
    How absurdly narrow is their focus? They are targeting 
eight schools out of about 4,000 in the United States. That 
amounts to a focus on less than one-half of one percent of the 
American undergraduate population.
    While President Trump threatens individual schools with 
cuts for not adhering to his ideology, they are using the power 
and resources of this Committee to pursue yet another empty 
antitrust theory so that they can bully their political 
targets. Sadly, this follows a familiar pattern.
    Last Congress, this Subcommittee unleashed baseless 
antitrust investigations designed to undermine the free speech 
rights of advertisers and investors that held views disfavored 
by the Majority. When advertisers made the reasonable 
determination that they did not want their brands associated 
with extremist views and hate speech on social media platforms, 
Republicans used a flawed antitrust theory to justify a 
campaign to threaten and intimidate them into abandoning their 
efforts as responsible advertisers.
    When investors threatened the profits of big oil and gas 
companies by considering the risks that climate change posed to 
our economic future, the Committee rushed to the defense of 
their corporate allies with another hollow antitrust 
investigation.
    Now, today, they return to the same tired playbook, using 
the power of this Committee to support the Trump 
Administration's efforts to target academic institutions. After 
having launched an overbroad fishing expedition against Ivy 
League universities, they are now holding a hearing today to 
justify these efforts at harassment and intimidation.
    As I noted at the outset, there are real concerns when it 
comes to the cost of tuition at colleges and universities. If 
there is indeed collusion among the Ivy League schools, 
enforcement by our antitrust agencies, the Federal Trade 
Commission and the Department of Justice, is the answer, not a 
partisan probe that merely serves as another broadside against 
education in America under President Trump.
    There is much we could do together to bring down the cost 
of tuition and broaden access to education. Unfortunately, 
Republicans would rather slash student loans to pay for tax 
cuts for billionaires, while threatening universities that do 
not bend to Donald Trump's will.
    Unfortunately, there is one clear loser in the Republican 
war on science and education, it is the students they claim to 
support and, I should add, the public that benefits from 
scientific and medical discoveries that will not now happen in 
the United States.
    I appreciate our witnesses for appearing today. I look 
forward to hearing from them.
    I yield back the balance of my time.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize the Chair of the Full Committee Mr. Jordan 
for his opening statement.
    Chair Jordan. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    First, they set the same general price. Second, they demand 
large amounts of information from the students and their 
families for each student. Then, they squeeze every dime they 
can out of that family for tuition. Third, they limit class 
size.
    So, they agree on price, they perfect-price discriminate, 
and they limit output. That is about as anticompetitive 
behavior as you can get.
    Then, with this windfall of money they get, perfect-price 
discrimination, collusion on the price, limiting the class 
sizes at the institution, there is a windfall of money they get 
from students and their families, and the Government, the 
taxpayers, they hire an unbelievable amount of administrators. 
Mr. Shay has pointed that out. Such a deal. Such a deal for 
taxpayers and families.
    That is what is going on. Thank goodness the Chair is 
having a hearing on this. It is ridiculous, and everyone knows 
it.
    Not to mention all the crazy things we saw and witnessed at 
these institutions over the last few years: All kinds of crazy 
protests, taking over buildings, and antisemitic behavior. Not 
to mention all that, that is what is going on. The Ranking 
Member of the Subcommittee says we are wasting our time? You 
have got to be kidding me. The taxpayers appreciate that their 
tax money actually is used in the right way, not like it is 
being used at these institutions.
    So, again I want to thank the Chair for this hearing. I 
look forward to our witnesses and thank them for being present 
today and testifying.
    With that, I yield back.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize the Ranking Member of the Full Committee, 
Mr. Raskin, for his opening statement.
    Mr. Raskin. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Thanks to our 
witnesses for joining us today.
    Republicans convened us in the middle of the night a couple 
weeks ago to pass their billionaire tax break bill, which even 
Elon Musk, their great hero, now calls ``a disgusting 
abomination,'' another class war tax scam that will not only 
throw 14 million Americans off of their Medicaid, but increase 
the national debt by $3 trillion.
    In case our friends missed it, Elon Musk, who you have been 
praising since this administration began, has a message for you 
today: Shame on you. ``Shame on those who voted for it: You 
know you did wrong,'' says Elon Musk.
    So, I was pleasantly surprised to see we were going to have 
a hearing on antitrust because there used to be Republicans 
like progressive trust-buster Teddy Roosevelt who actually 
believed in protecting the American people against price fixing 
conspiracies, monopolies, and run-away corporate power.
    I thought perhaps, Mr. Chair, we could get together to 
protect our personal data, to investigate alleged 
monopolization of live events tickets, and lower prices on 
everything from eggs and other groceries to credit card junk 
fees which have been soaring under the Trump Administration, 
despite his promise that he would lower the price of eggs and 
everything else on day one.
    Silly me. Like everything else, antitrust in the hands of 
our friends is just one more chance to attack America's 
colleges and universities that refuse to surrender control to 
that luminary academic scholar Donald Trump who wants the 
Federal Government to take over faculty hiring, student 
admissions, and academic affairs at every university in 
America.
    I don't even know why Donald Trump is so mad at Harvard. 
They let in his son-in-law Jared Kushner after the Kushner 
family donated $500,000 to get him in. Just like Trump pardoned 
Kushner's father Charles, a major Trump donor who is our new 
Ambassador to France, for his multiple convictions for tax 
evasion and witness tampering.
    Now, that would be a worthwhile hearing, Mr. Chair: How 
wealthy people like the Kushners and the Trumps buy their way 
into America's elite institutions, as Donald Trump calls them.
    Antitrust is now just a weapon of political attack, not 
economic analysis. When businesses advocate sustainable 
investing, House Republicans accuse them of violating 
antitrust.
    When consumers want to exercise the right to boycott, 
Republicans accuse them of violating antitrust.
    Gee, if you don't support their monstrous, ugly tax break 
bill for billionaires they will accuse you of violating 
antitrust. We will probably be having a hearing on how Elon 
Musk is now violating antitrust since he has turned against 
Donald Trump and their appalling bill.
    So, today they are accusing eight universities who 
represent less than half percent of undergraduate students in 
the entire market across America of engaging in some completely 
vague and massive antitrust conspiracy. Republicans actually 
trotted out this pathetically weak theory in the first Trump 
Administration. Of course, no antitrust scholars took it 
seriously. Even their own Department of Justice didn't do 
anything with it.
    They control the Antitrust Division again. Why do they need 
another hearing from this Committee? Why don't they just bring 
their case, if there is a case? They have got the power. That 
is what they have been talking about.
    Look, this is pure power politics. President Trump's 
attacks on higher education reflect a standard move by 
authoritarians like Vladimir Putin in Russia, and Viktor Orban 
in Hungary. This is right out of the dictator's playbook: 
Subdue and control any institution that could provide a check 
on your lying and your corruption; prevent any possibility of 
opposition and dissent from forming against the autocrat and 
his regime; clear a path for the agents of propaganda and 
disinformation; and destroy the institutions that have given us 
great advances in scientific discovery and intellectual 
inquiry, as Mr. Nadler points out.
    J.D. Vance gave the whole game away, by the way, when he 
repeatedly quoted Richard Nixon to say, ``the professors are 
the enemy.'' Nixon said, ``The professors are the enemy. Write 
that on the blackboard 100 times and never forget it.''
    The Department of Education Secretary Linda McMahon 
ominously warned if schools want to continue to do research, 
they must fall in line with the administration and its goals. 
They must be ``in sync . . . with the administration and what 
the administration is trying to accomplish.''
    That is a Federal Government takeover of every private and 
public university and college in America.
    Now, Harvard has stood up to the administration's attempted 
hostile takeover, rejecting its blatantly unconstitutional 
demands to control its governance, its curriculum, and the 
ideology of its faculty and students.
    In response, the administration has come after the 
university's research contracts and grants and, more recently, 
even its ability to enroll foreign students, only to be shut 
down by the courts, and not Left-wing rogue Democrat judges, 
but Republican judges, too, for violating the university's 
First Amendment rights.
    We have got academic freedom in America under the First 
Amendment. Now, the Trump Administration ridiculously threatens 
to come after the university's tax-exempt status. They want to 
revoke Harvard's tax-exempt status, and they have asked all 
Federal agencies to cancel all the contracts they have with 
Harvard to get the work of the American people done, contracted 
work.
    Trump is losing in court every day. Harvard is winning as 
it stands up for academic freedom and its right to make 
scientific and academic progress. Hundreds of colleges and 
universities across the country are standing with Harvard.
    DHS said, Kristi Noem has said that the actions against 
Harvard should serve as a warning to all universities and all 
academic institutions. After Trump canceled more than 1.5 
billion in research grants, we know that State universities and 
community colleges have been hit hard. At smaller schools' 
researchers are going to lose their jobs, labs will close, and 
important work will go undone.
    Our Republican colleagues have no interest in making higher 
ed more acceptable and more affordable. In their big, beautiful 
bill they are cutting programs that help students pay for 
college, all to fund their tax cuts for the wealthiest 
Americans.
    Those cuts to higher education in America include severe 
limits on Pell eligibility, the end to subsidized loans, and a 
host of other disruptive changes that will push colleges way 
out of reach for hundreds of thousands of Americans.
    The administration also proposed nearly an 80 percent 
reduction in Federal work-study funding, and eliminating 
support for child care for students who are parents.
    What world are these people living in? This is breathtaking 
duplicity to claim that the Ivy League schools are conspiring 
against their students to make unaffordable when House 
Republicans are complicit in the largest setback in access to 
higher education for working class Americans in decades.
    Not content to undermine American students through these 
direct cuts to education, they are also proposing cutting $880 
billion from Medicaid and $300 billion from SNAP, the Nation's 
primary antihunger program.
    Do you know what happens to millions of low-income students 
who don't have healthcare and don't have enough food to eat? 
Most of them are going to drop out of school.
    Today's hearing just regurgitates the MAGA agenda: 
Persecute and punish anyone who refuses to submit to Donald 
Trump's Right-wing ideological agenda or gets in the way of 
their plan to fund tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans on the 
backs of everybody else. It is a cruel, dangerous program, and 
it has got nothing to do with antitrust law.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. The gentleman yields back. Without 
objection, all other opening statements will be included in the 
record.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. I will now introduce the witnesses.
    Dr. Preston Cooper. Dr. Cooper is a Senior Fellow at the 
American Enterprise Institute where his work focuses on higher 
education, student loans, and higher education reform.
    He previously served as a Senior Fellow in Higher Education 
Policy at the Foundation for Research on Equal Opportunity, a 
Research Analyst at AEI, and as a Policy Analyst at The 
Manhattan Institute for Policy Research.
    Next, Mr. Alex Shieh. Mr. Shieh is a rising junior at Brown 
University where he studies computer science and economics. He 
is also a journalist, serving as a contributing opinion writer 
for The Boston Globe, and as the publisher of The Brown 
Spectator.
    Mr. Scott Martin. Mr. Martin is Partner and Co-Chair of the 
Antitrust Practice Group at Hausfeld LLP. He has spent more 
than 25 years in civil litigation. His practice specializes in 
pricing distribution and other competition issues.
    Ms. Julie Margetta Morgan. Ms. Morgan is the President of 
The Century Foundation, a progressive think tank. She 
previously served as the Associate Director of Research, 
Monitoring, and Regulations at the Consumer Financial 
Protection Bureau.
    We welcome our witnesses and thank them for appearing 
today. We will begin by swearing you in.
    Would you please rise and raise your right hand.
    Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the 
testimony you are about to give is true and correct to the best 
of your knowledge, information, and belief, so help you God?
    [Affirmative replies.]
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Let the record reflect that the witnesses 
have answered in the affirmative.
    Thank you. You can be seated.
    Please know that your written testimony will be entered 
into the record in its entirety. Accordingly, we ask that you 
summarize your testimony in five minutes.
    Dr. Cooper, you may begin.

                STATEMENT OF MR. PRESTON COOPER

    Mr. Cooper. Good morning, Chair Fitzgerald, Chair Jordan, 
Ranking Member Raskin, Ranking Member Nadler, and distinguished 
Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to 
testify today on the enrollments and pricing practices of Ivy 
League universities. My name is Preston Cooper, and I am a 
Senior Fellow focusing on the economics of higher education at 
the American Enterprise Institute.
    The eight institutions of the Ivy League show many 
hallmarks of anticompetitive behavior. Most Ivy League 
institutions severely limit undergraduate admissions, turning 
away thousands of qualified applicants. The schools charge 
among the highest tuition prices in the country and are less 
likely to provide financial aid than other private 
institutions.
    At the same time, Ivy League universities enjoy a 
significant surplus that funds high levels of institutional 
expenditures, administrative bloat, and seven-figure salaries 
for some college presidents.
    Some Ivy League universities recently enjoyed an exemption 
from antitrust law, provided they admitted students on a need-
blind basis. In 2022, a group of students filed a class-action 
lawsuit against 17 elite universities, including several Ivies, 
alleging that admissions are not actually need-blind.
    Most of these schools eventually settled the lawsuit for a 
collective $320 million.
    Another lawsuit was filed in 2024, alleging that elite 
universities have continued to coordinate their pricing 
decisions even after the antitrust exemption expired.
    My testimony does not take a position on whether Ivy League 
universities are coordinating their pricing decisions, or 
whether they are in violation of Federal antitrust law. The 
enrollment, pricing, and spending practices of the Ivy League 
raise some red flags.
    Classic cartels limit supply to drive up prices and 
profits. We observe a version of this happening among Ivy 
League schools.
    Let's start with restrictions on supply, a fundamental 
aspect of cartel behavior.
    Harvard College admitted about 2,200 students to join the 
Class of 1982. Due to population increases and higher rates of 
overall college attendance, one might expect that number to 
grow. Instead, Harvard admitted just over 1,900 students to 
join its Class of 2028.
    Unlike most other private colleges, Ivy League universities 
have mostly not increased admissions to match rising demands. 
Instead, the schools have opted to become more selective, with 
the average Ivy League admissions rate falling from 15 percent 
in 2002 to just five percent in 2022.
    As student demand rises, but Ivy League institutions keep 
admissions relatively flat, the obvious result is an upward 
pressure on prices. The annual price of tuition and fees at Ivy 
League universities ranged between $59,000-$69,000 in the 
previous academic year. That is between 56-82 percent higher 
than the average for private colleges.
    Ivy League students are also less likely to receive 
financial aid. While 84 percent of students at non-Ivy colleges 
enjoy a discount off the sticker price, the share of Ivy League 
students receiving institutional financial aid is just 52 
percent.
    In a traditional cartel, restricted supply and higher 
prices enable monopoly like profits. While nonprofit 
universities don't earn profits in the traditional sense, they 
still enjoy surplus revenues. Ivy League universities spend an 
average of $126,000 per full-time equivalent student, compared 
to just $35,000 for the average private college. These high 
levels of spending fuel a vast administrative bureaucracy.
    The average Ivy League institution employs one 
noninstructional staffer for every two students, compared to 
one staffer for every six students at other private colleges.
    All this matters because Ivy League institutions have an 
outsize impact on the future of America. Ivy League graduates 
are vastly over-represented among elites in business, politics, 
and media. A group of institutions which limit enrollments and 
charges excessive prices denies opportunity to thousands of 
students, particularly middle-class students with strong 
academic qualifications, who face an unfairly low likelihood of 
admission today.
    The surplus revenues that Ivy League institutions currently 
enjoy fuel administrative bloat, but they could instead be used 
to create more seats for qualified applicants.
    The market for elite education bears many of the telltale 
signs of anticompetitive behavior. Whether it meets the legal 
definition of a cartel is an open question, but it 
unambiguously leaves students and society worse off.
    Thank you for your attention. I look forward to your 
questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Cooper follows:]
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    Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you, Dr. Cooper.
    We will now recognize Mr. Martin for five minutes.

                   STATEMENT OF SCOTT MARTIN

    Mr. Martin. Thank you. Chair Jordan, Ranking Member Raskin, 
Chair Fitzgerald, Ranking Member Nadler, and distinguished 
Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for extending an 
invitation to testify today.
    My name is Scott Martin. I am an attorney whose work has 
been focused on antitrust litigation for more than 30 years. 
That includes more than two decades primarily spent on defense 
work, and the past 10 years principally litigating on behalf of 
plaintiffs. I am also an author and co-editor of a multi-volume 
antitrust treatise. I care deeply about the benefits of 
competition and free markets, which is a truly bipartisan goal, 
as well as active but fair enforcement of our Nation's 
antitrust laws.
    As the Members of the Subcommittee know, the antitrust laws 
address both unilateral conduct--anticompetitive acts 
undertaken by a single actor with market power--and concerted 
conduct, particularly when the latter involves direct, or 
``horizontal,'' competitors. Most of my remarks will be 
directed to the latter as an area of concern regarding higher 
education historically--principally, the potential for cartel 
activity which the U.S. Supreme Court has labeled ``the supreme 
evil of antitrust.''
    In testifying today, I make no prejudgment about any 
current conduct, nor has my law firm represented a party in the 
cases I will discuss. Indeed, the hope of antitrust lawyers is 
always that free markets are operating properly and that 
unlawful conduct is not interfering with that. There are 
several reasons here for heightened vigilance to protect and 
encourage robust competition in higher education.
    First, as Members of the Subcommittee, as well as many 
American students and parents know, the price of higher 
education, specifically for private schools, has outpaced the 
rate of inflation. Since I was in college, the consumer price 
index has inflated the dollar by a factor of three, but tuition 
prices at the most selective institutions, in particular, have 
gone up on the order of seven-fold.
    Meanwhile, output in terms of class size has not kept pace 
with population growth. This is true despite increased demand 
and increasing multibillion-dollar endowments. Commonsense begs 
the question whether such a market is working properly.
    Second, the somewhat cloistered nature of these 
institutions, their nonprofit status, not to be confused with 
their massive endowments, and a belief, of which I am not 
questioning the sincerity, that they are engaged in noble work 
for the advancement of knowledge, may create an atmosphere 
suggesting that relaxation of rules of competition would be 
appropriate for this industry. Not so.
    Most legal scholars will tell you not only that antitrust 
exemptions are rare, and rightly so, but also that special 
sectoral rules and regulations have at best a mixed track 
record in our Nation. In a different higher educational, my law 
firm brought the O'Bannon case that challenged NCAA restraints 
on college applicants. That marketplace has flourished, and the 
sky has not fallen.
    Third, there are numerous markers here, familiar to 
antitrust practitioners, that this is a market ripe for 
distortion by collusion. Among other things, this is a somewhat 
concentrated industry with relatively few highly selective 
institutions as participants. There are numerous opportunities 
for those entities to collude--whether directly, such as at 
meetings of university presidents, or facilitated through 
intermediaries such as the College Board. There are, of course, 
exceptionally high barriers to entry into the market.
    As I mentioned, by way of context, this industry has been 
the subject of investigations and litigation raising 
competition concerns in the past, on issues ranging from no-
poach agreements concerning graduate school faculty members to 
monopolization of markets for college bookstore sales, and 
local housing.
    A ``Common Application'' used by over 1,000 colleges and 
universities throughout the United States also has been the 
subject of a private antitrust action, ultimately settled.
    Perhaps most pertinent to the Subcommittee here, in 1989, 
as you have heard, the DOJ filed a civil antitrust case against 
a group of universities alleged to have employed the same 
analysis to compute family contributions toward the costs of 
attendance, for purposes of collectively determining financial 
assistance offered to commonly admitted students.
    That case resulted in a 10-year consent decree in 1991, 
under which those universities committed not to agree on 
student financial aid. It subsequently led to congressional 
passage of the so-called ``568 Exemption'' permitting colleges 
to formulate common approaches to awarding financial aid, 
provided they strictly adhered to need-blind admissions.
    The 568 Exemptions expired on September 30, 2022, and was 
not renewed. However, as you know, current and former college 
students allege, in a class action filed in 2022, that members 
of the ``568 Presidents Group'' of 17 top private colleges and 
universities have conspired to eliminate competition among them 
for financial aid. To date, 12 of those 17 schools have 
resolved the lawsuit in settlements totaling approximately $320 
million.
    I thank you again for your attention and your vigilance in 
this regard.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Martin follows:]
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    Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you, Mr. Martin.
    Mr. Shieh, you may begin.

                    STATEMENT OF ALEX SHIEH

    Mr. Shieh. Chair Fitzgerald, Ranking Member Nadler, Chair 
Jordan, Ranking Member Raskin, thank you for inviting to appear 
before you today.
    My name is Alex Shieh, and I am a rising junior at Brown 
University, one of the most exclusive institutions in the 
world. I am not here to glorify the Ivy League. I am here to 
warn you the promise of American higher education, of 
opportunity to a meritocracy is under attack.
    I am a legacy student at Brown. I went to a prep school 
that feeds to the Ivy League. My parents are doctors who can 
afford the $93,000 a year sticker price. In other words, I am 
exactly who the Ivy League was built for.
    What about the kids who weren't born on third base?
    Statistically speaking, for a smart kid from a poor family 
an Ivy League degree can power their ascent to the upper income 
brackets better than anything else. That is the American dream. 
Today, that dream is now a luxury good.
    According to The New York Times, at Brown the median 
student's family makes over $200,000 a year. Half of the 
student body comes from the top five percent of earners. 
Research by Brown's own Professor John Friedman shows that even 
equally qualified low-income students are vastly under-
represented.
    At this very moment the American people are tightening 
their belts. Brown is raising tuition to be beyond $90,000 a 
year. Even while charging students the price of a luxury car, 
Brown is on track to run a $46 million deficit this year.
    Where is all the money going?
    I will tell you where it is going. It is going into an 
empire of administrative bloat and bureaucracy. Brown employs 
3,805 full-time noninstructional staff for just 7,229 
undergrads. That is one administrator for every two students. 
This isn't education, this is bloat paid for on the backs of 
students and families who are mortgaging their futures for a 
shot at a better life.
    Meanwhile, Grace Calhoun, Brown's athletic director, earns 
over $1 million. A household assistant on payroll tends to 
University President Christina Paxson. When budget cuts are 
made, these expenses stay while the student experience 
deteriorates.
    My dorm floods when it rains. The burger patties in our 
dining hall have been replaced by an unappetizing beef-mushroom 
blend.
    The idea that Brown's administration can be streamlined 
isn't conjecture. We didn't use to have this many 
administrators. Across the Nation the number of university 
administrators has risen by 162 percent in recent decades. It 
is no coincidence that, correspondingly, the cost of education 
has risen 181 percent in inflation-adjusted dollars since the 
Nineties.
    Across the pond, a world class education at Oxford or 
Cambridge can cost about half as much as an Ivy League degree, 
in part due to a much lower administrative burden.
    The status quo has a real human cost. I recently learned of 
a brilliant young man from Pensacola, Florida, who got into 
Brown but was forced to walk away because the financial aid 
wasn't enough.
    Brown says it meets 100 percent of demonstrated need. Brown 
gets to decide what that need is. Middle class students in 
particular suffer from these policies, earning too much to 
qualify for generous scholarships, but not enough to go to 
Brown without straddling themselves with significant amounts of 
debt.
    Let's not forget that Brown is one of several Ivy League 
schools that settled a Federal antitrust lawsuit last year for 
allegedly colluding to suppress financial offers.
    I am a reporter for The Brown Spectator. To document this 
problem I created a website called ``Bloat at Brown'' that used 
AI to assist whether each administrative role was actually 
necessary. I sent each administrative employee a DOGE-style 
email to ask them, ``What do you do all day?''
    Instead of answering, Brown's response was retaliation. My 
Social Security number was leaked. Our website was hacked. 
Associate Dean Kirsten Wolfe launched a disciplinary 
investigation into a litany of baseless charges such as 
emotional harm.
    When they couldn't get me, they charged every single board 
member of The Brown Spectator, an unprecedented attack on 
student journalism. We refused to back down and we won our 
hearings. There was no misconduct, only exposure. That is what 
Brown feared the most.
    This Committee has a responsibility not just to investigate 
Ivy League antitrust violations, but to reclaim the American 
dream from those who have twisted it into a racket. I call on 
you today to subpoena Brown's President Christina Paxson and 
ask her why Brown costs $93,000 a year.
    The American dream isn't just for the legacies, the coastal 
elites, or the children of privilege, it belongs to the kid in 
rural Kansas with a 4.0 GPA, the first gen student working a 
night shift, and the families who did everything right and 
still got priced out. They deserve a seat at the table. They 
deserve a shot at making it big. Their American dreams matter, 
too.
    I thank you for the opportunity to testify, and I welcome 
your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Shieh follows:]
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    Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you, Mr. Shieh.
    Dr. Morgan, you may begin.

               STATEMENT OF JULIE MARGETTA MORGAN

    Ms. Margetta Morgan. Good morning, Chair Fitzgerald, 
Ranking Member Nadler, and the Members of the Subcommittee. 
Thank you for the opportunity to testify at this hearing.
    The rising cost of college beyond high school in this 
country is a major concern for many American families. Whether 
they are looking at an associate's degree in nursing, a 
vocational certificate to become an HVAC technician, or a four-
year degree in business, Americans looking to get ahead in the 
job market are facing high tuition bills. Most students are 
forced to cope by taking on student loan debt that becomes a 
life-long burden.
    I applaud the Committee's interest in costs of higher 
education. However, the focus of this inquiry is misplaced. Ivy 
League institutions claim less than 0.4 percent of 
undergraduate students in this country, whereas the vast 
majority of students attend public community colleges and open-
access city colleges.
    Ivy League admissions and tuition practices have no effect 
on the schools that most Americans attend. Looking for a 
solution to college costs in the Ivy League is like looking for 
a needle in a haystack while the rest of the haystack is on 
fire.
    Here's the latest source of that fire: Legislation approved 
by the House of Representatives to pay for tax cuts for the 
richest Americans by increasing the price of college for low- 
and middle-income students, including taking away Pell Grants 
from 1.4 million Americans and reducing them for another three 
million.
    The deep cuts to Medicaid and SNAP in that bill will also 
likely increase public school tuition by squeezing the State 
budget, as higher education will be at the top of the chopping 
block to cover State budget shortfalls.
    Antitrust at elite colleges is deeply inadequate for 
solving the problem of high prices at college in America. 
Attempting to leverage antitrust as a global fix to college 
pricing and admissions while simultaneously slashing Federal 
support for higher education could very well result in less 
access to college for low- and middle-income families, not 
more.
    Congress has powerful tools at hand that could really 
change the price of college and improve the value of the 
Government's investment that are outside of this Committee's 
jurisdiction.
    For example, the Federal Government could use its muscular 
role in higher education finance to the advantage of millions 
of American families by negotiating the price of college 
tuition. There is a strong bipartisan precedent for this in 
Medicare, where the Federal Government assigns payment rates to 
healthcare services provided to Medicare beneficiaries.
    While Ivy League practices don't trickle down to open-
access schools, the predatory practices of for-profit colleges 
are definitely trickling up. Community colleges must contend 
with for-profit schools that siphon off students through 
aggressive marketing and then leave them with high debt and low 
earnings potential. As Congress looks to roll back regulation 
of for-profit colleges, these conditions will only worsen.
    Last, today's focus on Ivy League colleges comes after a 
string of actions by Government leaders aimed at gaining 
unprecedented levels of control over the minutia of 
administration at certain elite colleges. Instead of simply 
enforcing the law, Federal officials are openly looking for any 
punitive measures that they can apply to bend a handful of 
wealthy elite colleges to their will.
    Federal officials have put forward a variety of diffuse 
reasons for its obsession with the Ivies, but I think this plan 
of attack taken as a whole is most reasonably viewed as an 
attempt to turn back the clock and restore the role of the 
Harvards and Yales of the world as finishing schools for the 
children of wealthy and well-connected, rather than knowledge 
centers to completely evaluate the challenge social and 
political trends.
    This attack on Ivy League schools has worrisome parallels 
to the actions of an authoritarian regime. Regardless of our 
views on elite higher education, it should be of concern 
because it is a sharp departure from the law and from our norms 
and democratic values.
    A strong higher education system is critical to the 
country's economic strength, to the strength of our democracy, 
and to creating more broadly shared prosperity. We need to be 
working together to ensure that we are building a system that 
meets all our Communities' needs.
    Thank you. I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Margetta Morgan follows:]
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    Mr. Fitzgerald. The gentlewoman yields back.
    Mr. Nadler. Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. The gentleman is recognized.
    Mr. Nadler. I have a unanimous consent request.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Without objection.
    Mr. Nadler. Mr. Chair, I ask unanimous consent to enter 
``China Really Wants to Attract Talented Scientists. Trump Just 
Helped,'' from today's The New York Times.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Without objection.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you, Dr. Morgan.
    We will now proceed under the five-minute rule with 
questions. The gentleman from California is recognized, Mr. 
Issa.
    Mr. Issa. Thank you. Dr. Morgan, you went to Boston 
College, also known as one of the New Ivies; right?
    Ms. Morgan. I did go to Boston College for law school. I 
have no idea whether it is called the New Ivy.
    Mr. Issa. Google says it is. Who else can we ask?
    The bottom line is undergraduate is now over $67,000, over 
$88,000 all-inclusive. Is that one of the elite schools that 
you would be referring to beyond the original eight Ivy 
Leagues?
    Ms. Morgan. Absolutely. I do think that colleges like--
    Mr. Issa. Good. Let me ask you a question.
    Since you made such a point that Boston College, or other 
colleges, the basic eight, and we will just add the New Ivies 
that charge similar amounts, they should be exempt from 
antitrust because they have a small market share and cater to 
the ultra-rich?
    Ms. Morgan. My testimony offers no opinion--
    Mr. Issa. No, no, no. You made a point as an antitrust 
point that because they had such a small market share they had 
little or no effect.
    Ms. Morgan. I am sorry. Can I answer the question?
    Mr. Issa. No. I want you to answer that question.
    Ms. Morgan. OK. So, the point I am making about the--
    Mr. Issa. I don't want to know the point you are making. 
You can say yes or no. Did you say that?
    Ms. Morgan. Can you restate the question, please? What did 
I say?
    Mr. Issa. You said, and I will paraphrase--thank you very 
much--you said that we shouldn't be concentrating on them 
because they had such a small market share. Is market share a 
factor in the antitrust activity of multiple companies working 
together in collusion?
    Ms. Morgan. I believe we should be focusing on--
    Mr. Issa. Now, thank you for not answering that. You make 
it easy on me, Doctor.
    Mr. Martin, is collusion, even without large market share, 
if it makes prices unreasonably high, if it has an effect, is 
that antitrust behavior?
    Mr. Martin. It is per se unlawful.
    Mr. Issa. OK. So, you have per se unlawful behavior 
alleged. Yet, the Democrat's witness for some strange reason 
wants to say, oh, don't look at that shiny object, instead, 
what we heard today was give us more funding for the bloated 
State universities that also are raising their prices.
    Mr. Shieh, you described yourself as sort of part of the 
wealthy and entitled, which is unusual in this body for anyone. 
Everyone else seems to want to be Horatio Alger.
    Your family was able to pay what needed to be paid at an 
Ivy League school, correct?
    Mr. Shieh. Right. Most Americans can't afford this, $93,000 
a year. That is 150 percent of the median American income.
    Mr. Issa. OK. The evidence that is being presented today is 
that the effect is not just Ivy League schools, but if you take 
away the subsidies being paid by other taxpayers, all 
universities are rising at very high rates because of these 
practices, including what you talked about, this massive amount 
of overhead, if you will, inefficient overhead by 
administrators?
    Mr. Shieh. Absolutely. Administrative overhead is growing 
not just at the Ivy League, but at State universities all 
across the country. It has risen dramatically in recent years.
    Mr. Issa. Dr. Cooper, is it fair to say that one of the 
things you see among cartels, antitrust activity and so on, is 
you see higher prices and less efficient, higher overhead? 
Isn't that kind of a hallmark when you give antitrust 
exemption?
    Mr. Cooper. That is correct. We often see higher prices and 
higher profits.
    Mr. Issa. So, for our witnesses, is it fair to say that if, 
in fact, we bring back real competition at all levels, at all 
universities, and as a result we then would be able to drive 
down prices, drive up efficiency, we could, in fact, allow more 
people to be able to leave college without burdensome debt?
    Mr. Cooper. I think that is correct. We need more 
competition in higher education.
    Mr. Issa. OK. So, today's hearing is really about antitrust 
behavior by the most esteemed universities.
    Mr. Shieh, I am going to ask you a question. Is it your 
understanding as a rising junior, if I am correct, that if you 
go to one of these great universities the rest of your life 
your career income is on average greater, isn't it?
    Mr. Cooper. This is empirically true that going to an Ivy 
League school can definitely raise your potential earnings, 
especially if you are from a low-income family.
    Mr. Issa. So, Mr. Martin, the tendency by the universities 
that will deliver the highest lifetime earning to restrict, to 
reduce and, as a result, to deny to the people who otherwise 
would have that opportunity, isn't that one of the real 
detriments of this antitrust behavior?
    Mr. Martin. It should trouble us as antitrust lawyers.
    Mr. Issa. Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. The gentleman yields back. I now recognize 
the Ranking Member for five minutes.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Dr. Morgan, before I 
begin my questions can you please give your answer to Mr. 
Issa's question on market size?
    Ms. Morgan. Yes. I believe that market size is relevant 
here to the question of where we should be focusing our 
attention. The vast majority of students in America do not 
attend Ivy League colleges. They don't attend colleges who are 
affected by the competitive forces that the Committee is 
discussing here today.
    We need to be focused on open-access colleges and community 
colleges who take their cues from the State legislators and 
Federal legislators who provide sufficient resources for their 
budget.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you. For many, college is a good 
investment that ensures greater earnings over a lifetime and an 
opening to the middle class. However, the cost situation at 
many schools is too high, closing the door to families who 
cannot afford the high sticker price.
    Despite this affordability problem and the growing 
disparity between the richest few and the many who are seeing 
rising prices in all parts of the market, the Republicans' 
reconciliation bill takes direct aim at student loan programs 
and other critical student aid program.
    The Trump Administration has also taken aim at students and 
universities while pulling critical research funding and 
kidnapping students and academics off the street.
    Dr. Morgan, how does the Republican budget impact low-
income students and the public's access to higher education 
going forward?
    Ms. Morgan. The Republican budget is going to have drastic 
negative impact on the cost of higher education for most 
students in this country. As I said in my testimony, ``it is 
going to cut programs for millions of students, making them 
foot the bill for more of college.'' It is going to make 
student loans more expensive to repay on the backend.
    It caps the amount of Federal student loans that people can 
take on but not the amount of tuition, meaning that more people 
are going to have to take on private student loans to cover 
that gap.
    Mr. Nadler. How does higher education support the country 
and our economy generally?
    Ms. Morgan. Higher education is incredibly important to our 
economy, and it serves a number of focuses.
    First, those open-access schools and community colleges 
that I referred to are educating people to become doctors--
sorry, to become nurses, nurse practitioners, HVAC repair 
people, electricians, and the people who serve our communities 
every day and make our economy robust.
    Our educational institutions also provide funding for--or 
receive funding to do research that provides innovations that 
are incredibly important to our society. They make us safer, 
they make us healthier, and they make our country more 
competitive.
    Mr. Nadler. Well, following up on that, how does the 
gutting of Federal research programs at the National Institutes 
of Health, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and 
the National Science Foundation impact not just the 
institutions but society and even humanity?
    Ms. Morgan. I think we are all going to feel the impacts of 
these cuts for a long time. We are not going to be developing 
the drugs that make us safer and healthier in this country. We 
are not going to be developing the innovations to help keep us 
competitive and power manufacturing within our country.
    It is going to have a really big impact on us as a whole. I 
also think it is going to move more innovation to the private 
sector, which means that we are really only going to be 
developing the innovations that are profitable, and not 
necessarily the ones that are best for the public as a whole.
    Mr. Nadler. Most of our drugs are not initially profitable 
without Federal research.
    Dr. Morgan, the United States has been the beneficiary of 
foreign students coming here, being educated here, the best and 
the brightest. Staying here is one of the reasons for our 
scientific supremacy.
    What is the effect of the Trump Administration's hostility 
to foreign students, and denials of visas, and even the 
revocations of visas, what will be the effect on our economy 
and on our scientific supremacy?
    Ms. Morgan. Yes. First, we have to view this attack on 
foreign students at American colleges as part of a larger 
punitive effort to bend certain colleges to the 
administration's will.
    So, this is really part of an effort to turn the screws 
into any place that the administration can, to bring colleges 
around to a--
    Mr. Nadler. Well, what would be the result?
    Ms. Morgan. Oh, sure. The result of this change to 
admission for international students is going to have an effect 
on our country's ability to bring in minds from across the 
world and benefit from their academic excellence to provide an 
opportunity for those students to take part in our democracy 
and learn our values.
    Mr. Nadler. In short, it promises to shift scientific 
primacy from the United States to China. Would you agree with 
that?
    Ms. Morgan. I totally agree with that.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. The gentleman yields back. I now recognize 
the gentleman from Washington for five minutes.
    Mr. Baumgartner. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair, for holding 
this important hearing. There is zero doubt that the Ivy League 
institutions behave in an anticompetitive manner.
    In fact, if you look at their pricing and value marketing 
model, it looks very similar to some famous jewel companies and 
how they control supply of diamonds and inflate what is a 
commodity into a precious item of limited scarcity.
    I do believe that American higher education is a gem of 
American society. What it does for research, social mobility, 
and overall aid to our economy is extremely important.
    Unfortunately, it is a gem that has been thrust into the 
mud, largely by Democratic leadership. Democrats are great if 
you are a college administrator and want to see your salary 
increase, or your job supply increase. They are terrible if you 
are a college student and you don't want to see your debt 
levels increase.
    The right price for college should be the price at which a 
student can get through with zero debt. College should be 
priced at the level you can work a part-time job or a summer 
job. The problem with an 18-year-old is they don't know the 
difference between $6,000 in debt or $60,000 in debt if they 
have never had a job and had to pay it back.
    What this body should be doing is how do we create an 
environment where a student, all students can get through 
school with no debt.
    When I was in our State Senate, as Republicans when we took 
control in the State Senate, we actually dropped the price of 
college tuition 20 percent in Washington State under Republican 
leadership because we were working for the middle class.
    I have had the experience of going to a big State school, 
Washington State University, where my father was a professor. I 
spent a year as a teacher at university, Catholic University of 
Mozambique teaching war refugees. I was a teaching fellow at 
Harvard when I did my Master's there. I was on, short-term on 
the faculty at Sciences Po University in Paris, which is kind 
of the Harvard of France.
    Across all those experiences what I saw is that the amount 
of growth in administrators in American universities is simply 
out of control. When you go to Sciences Po there is no 
diversity dean, student housing dean, and student welfare dean. 
There is simply this reliance on college students to behave as 
adults and figure stuff out for themselves. In doing that, they 
are able to provide college at a much, much lower level.
    What this body needs to do is to figure out ways to get out 
all the B.S. out of higher education, get back to basics, and 
create mechanisms to bring costs down.
    I do want to touch on this issue of the Ivy Leagues, and 
Harvard specifically, which does have some real problems.
    When I went to Harvard there was a lack of viewpoint 
diversity. We used to call the Republican Club the Phone Booth 
Club because there were so few of us that we could fit in a 
phone booth. Now, I make that joke and a lot of students don't 
even know what a phone booth is.
    In any event, the solution to this is just to make these 
universities reflective of American society. It is like Noah's 
Ark, increase in access and viewpoint diversity. This shouldn't 
be hard except the fact the far Left does not want to give up 
its stranglehold on America's most elite universities. This is 
going to happen.
    Second, there is a problem with the Chinese Government and 
foreign institutions utilizing America's most elite 
universities.
    When I went to Harvard there was sort of a small-scale 
scandal. They refused to fly the flag of Taiwan at that time. 
In fact, we have some important legislation here in this body 
in the Deterrent Act which we passed out of the House that 
would illuminate how much foreign influence is going on the 
college campuses from places like China. Even today, Harvard 
resists implementing that bill.
    I would like to enter for the record this column, this 
newspaper article that ``Harvard Has Trained So Many Chinese 
Communist Officials, They Call It Their ``Party School.' '' 
There very much is a problem of China at these universities.
    If I could enter this in the record.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Without objection.
    Mr. Baumgartner. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Finally, I just want to thank all the panelists for 
fighting this antitrust issue. As we think about these issues, 
we all need to realize that college enrollment is about to go 
off a cliff due to demographic changes in America.
    We have a silver tsunami of older Americans. We have a 
dwindling rapid supply of college students because of 
demographic factors in terms of birth rates, and also the cost.
    This anticompetitive behavior will likely become worse in 
the coming years as the total market for college students will 
reduce.
    With that, I yield back.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. The gentleman yields back. Mr. Nadler is 
recognized for a unanimous consent request.
    Mr. Nadler. Mr. Chair, I ask unanimous consent to enter 
into the record an article from New America titled, ``The House 
Reconciliation Bill Makes College Less Affordable, All to Pay 
for Tax Cuts for Millionaires and Billionaires,'' and argues 
low income to moderate students will ``borrow more, but with 
worse terms.''
    I also seek unanimous consent to enter into the record, two 
articles: One entitled ``The Number of 18 Year Olds is About to 
Drop Sharply,'' as the gentleman said.
    Another entitled ``Declining Enrollment is Leading to 
School Closures.''
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Without Objection.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. The Ranking Member of the Full Committee, 
Mr. Raskin, is now recognized for five minutes.
    Mr. Raskin. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Shieh, so you 
describe yourself as a son of wealth and privilege. I think you 
described yourself as a legacy student.
    Does that mean your parents or your grandparents went to 
Brown?
    Mr. Shieh. Yes. My father went to Brown.
    Mr. Raskin. Other than having some complaints like the beef 
mushroom blend, you are really speaking not so much for 
yourself, but for other kids. You say the kids who are not born 
on third base, is that right?
    Mr. Shieh. Absolutely. The value of an Ivy League degree 
used to mean that you were smart, that you are brilliant. It is 
being diminished.
    Mr. Raskin. As you know, the vast majority of young people 
who want to go to college are not going to be able to go to 
Brown, even if you increase the class sizes, you have 
advocated, by a couple hundred kids. The vast majority are 
going to end up going to, if they can afford it, State 
universities, community colleges, and so on.
    My question for you is, will you use your platform here 
today to oppose the major cuts in Pell Grants, which have 
allowed an avenue for upward mobility in education for young 
people that are built into the current tax bill?
    The 1.4 million Americans would be thrown off. I just 
wonder if you would oppose the cuts to Pell Grants, the cuts to 
student loans, and the 80 percent cuts to college work study, 
which you know allows people to work their way through college?
    Mr. Shieh. Well, I think something that we have observed 
economically is that--
    Mr. Raskin. No, I am going to--like my friend, I am going 
to ask you to answer the question. Do you oppose all those 
cuts, or do you support them?
    Mr. Shieh. I guess, I believe that subsidizing education 
only increases the cost, because they do.
    Mr. Raskin. You favor those cuts. You would just get rid of 
the Pell Grant program, is that right?
    Mr. Shieh. I am not an expert on the Pell Grant program. I 
know that generally--
    Mr. Raskin. You seem to be an expert. You don't favor 
Federal student aid to kids who want to go to college, for Pell 
Grants or college work study. You are opposed to that?
    Mr. Shieh. I think that when students don't pay the cost of 
going to college, then we have seen prices rise.
    Mr. Raskin. You have made yourself clear. Thank you for 
coming in for your testimony.
    Look, a point was made before that collusion is per se 
illegal, which of course is true as a matter of antitrust law. 
Per se collusion is only legal if there is actually per se 
collusion.
    Now, this reminds me of a hearing that we did over in the 
Oversight Committee with Chair Comer about impeachment where 
the Republicans lined up all these witnesses about impeachment 
of Joe Biden and then all of them said that they did not see 
evidence, they were not aware of evidence that would justify 
impeachment.
    So, the two expert witnesses here, Dr. Cooper and Mr. 
Martin, as I am reading your testimony, are saying that they 
don't have evidence of price fixing.
    Mr. Martin says, I think you just stated it, I am making no 
judgment about any current conduct. You are not making a 
statement.
    Dr. Cooper, you said, ``My testimony does not take a 
position on whether Ivy Leagues area coordinating their pricing 
decisions or whether they are in violation of Federal antitrust 
law.''
    Again, this is much ado about nothing. This is an attempt 
just to create a propaganda smokescreen to attack the Ivy 
League schools.
    Your expert witnesses are saying that they don't have 
evidence that there are antitrust violations going on. Of 
course, they are correct, because if there were, the Trump 
Department of Justice would actually be engaged in prosecution 
or an investigation of them.
    So, we have one champion of the working class at Brown 
University, who is opposed to Pell Grants and other means for 
kids to actually go to college in America where most kids do go 
to college, and two expert witnesses who don't see price fixing 
taking place by the Ivy League institutions.
    There is a real problem in America: Only 10 percent of 
college students go to for-profit colleges, but they are 
responsible for 50 percent of all student loan defaults.
    I am going to ask for unanimous consent to enter a campaign 
statement by Marco Rubio entitled, ``Trump University is an 
Absolute Scam: Get the Facts About Pending Litigation,'' if we 
could, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Without objection.
    Mr. Raskin. Dr. Morgan, let me go to you. How does the 
Republican attack on regulatory protections against for-profit 
colleges and universities affect the fraud against students 
taking place in the education market generally?
    Because they are dismantling the regulations that were put 
in place to protect students against for-profit university 
fraud.
    Dr. Morgan. Yes. We are seeing action both here in Congress 
and at the Department of Education that are dismantling or 
laying the groundwork to dismantle all the protections that 
have been put in place for for-profit schools.
    What we have seen cyclically over time, is when those rules 
are pulled back, we have increased enrollment in for-profit 
colleges. We have increased debt that people can't pay off, and 
we have increased allegations of fraud.
    Mr. Raskin. OK. What about their move to abolish the 
Department of Education and to gut the Consumer Financial 
Protection Bureau, will that exacerbate the difficulties that 
young people are having paying for college?
    Dr. Morgan. We are taking the cops off the beat who can 
actually identify that fraud and stop it and put money back 
into people's pockets.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. The gentleman's time has expired. I ask 
unanimous consent to enter into the record the following, an 
article from Ivy Coach titled, ``Ivy League Tuition and Fees 
for 2024-2025,'' comparing tuition rates among the eight Ivy 
League schools.
    Also, an article from Ivy Coach titled, ``Ivy League 
Admission Statistics,'' comparing the acceptance rates among 
the eight Ivy League schools.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. I now recognize the gentleman from 
Virginia.
    Mr. Cline. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the hearing, 
and I appreciate the comments of the Ranking Member.
    Let's define what collusion is. Let's actually look at 
Cornell Law School's definition. An Ivy League definition of 
collusion in antitrust law. Horizontal collusion exists where 
competitors at the same market level agree to fix or control 
the prices they will charge for their respective goods or 
services.
    For instance, two parties may collude by limiting or 
restricting supply, sharing insider information, or dividing 
the market. It is very clear that the eight Ivy League member 
institutions have a long history of colluding with each other 
and other elite higher education institutions.
    Back in 1958, they formed a cartel called the Ivy Overlap 
Group that created a common formula for calculating financial 
aid packages to ensure that a student admitted to one or more 
of the Overlap Group institutions would pay the same maximum 
price to attend, regardless of the institution that they chose.
    The Overlap Group would accomplish this by sharing 
information and determining the maximum price that admitted 
students' families could afford to pay.
    Later, operating under a now expired antitrust exemption, 
many of the Ivy League institutions and other elite higher 
education institutions formed the 568 Presidents' Working 
Group, which likewise created a common formula to ensure 568 
PWG schools would not compete on price.
    This behavior led to lawsuits and settlements against many 
of the Ivy League institutions. Dr. Cooper, does this cartel of 
elite higher education institutions have the ability to raise 
the cost for students and their families who are attempting to 
pay for college?
    Mr. Cooper. Absolutely Congressman. I believe the opaque 
financial aid system enables Ivy League colleges to charge much 
higher prices than they would be able to in a competitive 
market.
    There is a billion-dollar consulting industry that helps 
Ivy League institutions figure out exactly how much each family 
is able to pay and then charge that amount.
    Mr. Cline. We have seen collusion on pricing before 
enactment of the Section 568 exemption, and while the exemption 
was in effect. Now, we are concerned it persists today, even 
though the exemption has expired.
    What gaps in enforcement have allowed Ivy League 
institutions to effectively operate as a pricing cartel?
    Mr. Cooper. The prices that colleges charge are very opaque 
right now. You have to apply and be admitted to figure out how 
much you are going to pay.
    At that point, the college sort of has you captive. It is 
going to be very difficult for you to comparison shop at that 
point, go to a different school. You kind of have to accept the 
price that the school is charging you or else maybe not go to 
college.
    Mr. Cline. A similar question to Mr. Martin. These 
institutions through the Overlap Group and the 568 Presidential 
Working Group used this common financial aid formula for 
decades to make sure that they weren't competing on price.
    Do you think that these institutions could still be using 
that same revenue maximizing formula to calculate financial aid 
awards that they used while the exemption was in place?
    Mr. Martin. Well, that is the subject of ongoing litigation 
in the Northern District of Illinois. To put a finer point, I 
make no prejudgment as to what the outcome of that litigation 
would be.
    I only note that 12 of the 17 member institutions have 
settled it for a total of $320 million. It survived a motion to 
dismiss. It has gone on through discovery.
    Quite candidly, some of the documents in that case will be 
challenging for the remaining defendants.
    Mr. Cline. If they are shown to be using the same formula, 
could that present significant antitrust issues?
    Mr. Martin. It could. There is substantial damages alleged 
in the case.
    Mr. Martin. Mr. Shieh, Brown's estimated cost of attendance 
during the 2025-2026 academic year is $97,284 per year. That 
means Brown values a degree from its institution at almost 
$400,000.
    Do you think a degree from Brown is worth nearly $400,000?
    Mr. Shieh. That is a very good question. I think that is 
that empirically it is just barely worth it. That for the kids 
who it could help the most, that is too much for them to pay 
upfront.
    Mr. Cline. I appreciate that. I would argue that it does 
not, the worth is not four times the worth of an in-State 
school or six or eight times that of a community college 
education.
    With that, I would yield back.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. The gentleman, yields back.
    Ms. Balint. Mr. Chair, I have a UC.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. The Member is recognized.
    Ms. Balint. I ask unanimous consent to enter into the 
record ABC News article, ``Judge Finalizes $25 Million 
Settlement for `Victims of Donald Trump's Fraudulent 
University,' '' and a USA today, ``Trump University settlement 
finalized by judge at $25 million.''
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Without objection. The gentleman from 
California is now recognized for five minutes.
    Mr. Correa. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate you and the 
Ranking Member. Thank you for holding this hearing today.
    I am sure here in Washington, DC, discussing Brown, 
discussing Harvard, and discussing private elite universities, 
is very important somehow, somewhere, but not to my district or 
blue-collar middle class.
    My dad wasn't a doctor. He was a union worker making 
cardboard boxes. My mom used to clean hotel rooms at a $1.50 an 
hour and we managed to survive.
    My neighbors, myself, we were all in the same boat. We 
never thought about Harvard because we weren't going to have 
the grades, we weren't going to have the money, and we had to 
survive, pay the rent, pay the bills on a day-to-day basis.
    I appreciate holding this hearing today, talking about 
these elite institutions. I can assure you back home, nobody 
gives a darn about this stuff.
    What they care about is how to survive on a day-to-day 
basis. Public policy, government subsidization of public 
education, what is that old saying, ``if it ain't broke, don't 
fix it.''
    The GI Bill, World War II over, the greatest generation 
comes back to the U.S. We decided to pay for their college 
education.
    We educated a generation, the greatest generation that 
built the greatest country in the world on the government dime. 
My generation.
    I did go to Harvard of the West Coast, Cal State Fullerton, 
and a second-rate school. Not at UC, but at Cal State. That was 
right for this kid from the hood.
    By the way, my tuition then was zero, Pell Grant. Pell 
Grant paid for everything, and I skipped a few meals to make it 
happen.
    Here we are today discussing Harvard and Brown. I am going 
to have to go back and tell my constituents that the two or 
three hours you spent here today is going to make a big 
difference in their life.
    I will tell you what they are looking at. Pell Grants, Cal 
Grants, cutting of Pell Grants, and school loans. They want to 
know how they can also get the opportunity to go to college.
    By the way, subsidization of education, I thought we were 
all taxpayers. Do we not have the opportunity as taxpayers to 
say where our tax dollars are going to go? Don't those 
taxpayers go to our children? The greatest gift God gives us, 
our children to educate them.
    What is wrong with a subsidized loan that they will have to 
pay back? What is against public policy here? Again, ``if it 
ain't broke, don't fix it.''
    Let's go a little bit further, current administration, 
public policy, research grants, California, and immigrants. The 
chart behind me shows all the AI companies that have been 
recently started up by immigrants in this country. I thought we 
were supposed to win the AI competition.
    I bring this up in the context of, ``if it ain't broke,'' 
why are we changing education, public policy, investing in 
research and development, investing and making sure the best 
and the brightest from around the world come to help us come up 
with new inventions in this country, keep us ahead of the rest 
of the world.
    Again, what is it that is broke that we are trying to fix?
    Mr. Raskin. Would the gentleman yield for a question?
    Mr. Correa. Go ahead.
    Mr. Raskin. Mr. Correa, thank you for your very passionate 
and eloquent remarks. What would have happened to you if you 
had not had access to Pell Grants and Cal Grants and public 
money to go to school?
    What would happen to your working-class constituents today?
    Mr. Correa. Well, you are asking me to delve into a 
personal confession. The gift that my father gave me when I 
graduated from high school was he said,

        I can't give you a watch. Can't give you something nice, but I 
        can free you. You don't have to help us pay rent or pay the 
        bills. You focus on studying, and that is where that financial 
        aid came into being.

This kid from the hood, who wasn't quite ready for college, was 
able to make it with that financial aid.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. The gentleman's time has expired. I now 
recognize Mr. Gooden from Texas for five minutes.
    Mr. Gooden. Thank you, Mr. Chair. One of the points Mr. 
Shieh was trying to make was that these universities shouldn't 
be so expensive in the first place.
    None of us want to take away Pell Grants and loan support, 
et cetera, financial aid for anyone that needs it. Our point 
is, it shouldn't cost this much in the first place to the point 
that we need $400,000, whether it is subsidized or not, to pay 
for these degrees.
    I am curious, Mr. Shieh, when you started asking all these 
questions and making noise at Brown University, what was their 
response to you?
    Mr. Shieh. They were not very happy. The Brown 
administration told people not to respond to our emails. Then, 
they hit us with a disciplinary investigation, charging me 
personally for bizarre things such as emotional/psychological 
harm.
    Apparently, that is a real student code of conduct 
violation. I was found not responsible for anything. They also 
dragged in the entire Board of the The Brown Spectator and 
charged all of us. Luckily, we were cleared. That shows that 
there is rot and they are trying to cover it up.
    Mr. Gooden. Isn't that interesting that they had a problem 
with your free speech and the work you were doing, but they did 
not have a problem with the pro-Palestinian encampments and all 
the antisemitism?
    Isn't that just wildly ironic that they would go after 
little old you, just a student that is banging the drum, 
kicking, and screaming, about high costs?
    That pissed them off so much that they started an 
investigation and came after you. They didn't have a problem 
with the antisemitism all over their campus.
    Mr. Shieh. This is certainly a double standard. In 2023, we 
saw that a large group of protestors were actually arrested for 
trespassing.
    They invaded one of the buildings and they were asked to 
leave. They didn't leave. They were arrested, and Brown told 
the prosecutor to drop the charges. They weren't disciplined at 
all. I think there is a clear double standard here.
    Mr. Gooden. Well, I hope you will keep after it. The fact 
that the Democrats on this Committee are going after you, not 
hard, I will give them credit but trying to nail you down on a 
Pell Grant question that it really doesn't have anything to do 
with the point we are trying to make here.
    The point is, if college was not so expensive, we would not 
even need all this financial aid because it would not cost a 
fortune to go to college. It should not cost $400,000. Kids 
that cannot afford it would not need the aid that they get, 
because they would have aid, but we would not need $400,000 of 
it.
    I hope that every child and every student in America can go 
to whatever college they want. They are not going to as long as 
class sizes are limited and the price tags keep going up.
    Another interesting tidbit that I have found in all this, 
are all these endowments. One of my colleagues on the other 
side said, ``taxpayer money was meant to go toward funding 
this.''
    If an Ivy League institution has billions of dollars in 
their endowments--
    Mr. Mr. Correa. Will the gentleman yield?
    Mr. Gooden. Then, I am wondering how much needs to be given 
to this university with extra taxpayer dollars? Dr. Cooper, 
will you comment on that?
    Mr. Cooper. Absolutely. Some of these Ivy League 
universities have endowments in the tens of billions. Harvard 
has an endowment North of $50 billion.
    These institutions actually are less likely to provide 
institutional financial aid than other private colleges with 
fewer resources.
    Mr. Gooden. Yet, my colleague over here seems to just be 
outraged that we would want Harvard, Brown, or name your 
university, to use their endowment billions to educate the 
masses rather than to use taxpayer dollars to further their 
cost escalations and their price increases.
    Am I missing something, Dr. Cooper?
    Mr. Cooper. I think you are right. Harvard and other Ivy 
League institutions could certainly be doing a lot more with 
the tremendous resources they have available to make college 
more affordable for their students, and to expand to more 
talented students.
    Mr. Gooden. Well, I praise your work. I am sorry on behalf 
of my colleagues on the Left that seem to be so angry with your 
exposing of the corruption, the collusion, and the exorbitant 
cost increases of Ivy League educations.
    I can't hear one peep out of them with respect to the 
antisemitism in these same Ivy League institutions. They are 
all mad at President Trump for actually standing up against 
this antisemitism that we are seeing.
    They are mad at President Trump for trying to bring down 
the cost. Saying to these Ivy League institutions, we are not 
going to keep sending you money of U.S. taxpayer dollars as 
long as you are helping to propagate this antisemitism.
    They are doing nothing about this. Democrats are so mad at 
the President for standing up for the students, and for 
standing up for the taxpayers that they instead are wasting 
your time going after you.
    Keep it up, Mr. Shieh. Dr. Cooper and Mr. Martin, I 
appreciate your work. I encourage you to keep the pressure on 
Brown, especially Mr. Shieh.
    Don't be discouraged and know that the American people, the 
vast majority of the American people support your efforts, and 
we stand with you, and we share your views. Thank you.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. The gentleman yields back. We have a couple 
of unanimous consent requests. Mr. Correa first.
    Mr. Correa. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a unanimous 
consent for including the following items in our record:

     (1)  ``Trump is Crushing America's AI Leadership, We Still 
Have Time to Fix It.'' April 23, 2025.
     (2)  ``JD Vance Wanted to Aggressively Attack American 
Universities.'' June 3, 2025.
     (3)  ``Cost of Federally Sponsored Research.''
     (4)  Infographic on the Associate of American University's 
website, 2022.
     (5)  ``Benefitting Society and the Economy American 
Technology Transfer for 2023.''
     (6)  ``Federal R&D Cuts Would be Another Unforced Policy 
Error.''
     (7)  ``America's R&D Rethink Threatens Its Innovation 
Supremacy.''
     (8)  ``New American Fortune 500 in 2024, American 
Immigration Council.''
     (9)  ``U.S. Scientists Warned that Trump's Cuts Will Set 
Off Rain Drain.''
    (10)  ``These are the U.S. Universities More Dependent on 
International Students.''
    (11)  ``Losing International Students Could DevaState Many 
Colleges.''

Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Without objection. I will ask unanimous 
consent to enter into the record the following:
    A Washington Post article titled, ``Students Overpaid Elite 
Colleges $685 Million Price Fixing Suit.''
    A Press Release from Berger Montague titled, ``Plaintiffs 
in Elite University Price Fixing Case Settle with Cal Tech and 
Johns Hopkins.''
    Also, Plaintiff's Memorandum of Law in support of their 
Motion for Class Certification in the case of Horzo v. Brown.
    The gentlewoman from--
    Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chair, I just had one more, if I could.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Go ahead.
    Mr. Raskin. This is just for one article entitled, 
``Congressional Republicans Budget Reconciliation Bill Imperils 
4.4 Million Pell Grant Recipients.''
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Without objection. The gentlewoman from 
Vermont is now recognized for five minutes.
    Ms. Balint. Thank you, Mr. Chair. We should be able to work 
together and find bipartisan solutions to this problem.
    I have two teenagers myself. They are starting to look at 
colleges. I have got sticker shock, as do most parents who go 
through this process.
    I am really worried about all the talented students who 
don't even apply, not just because of the tuition, or the room 
and board, but simply the fees to apply. It is out of reach for 
so many families.
    The astronomical costs mean working people do not have a 
fair shot at higher education. I think that this is why we have 
been so vocal today about the cuts to the Pell Grant program.
    Everyone seems to agree that the high cost of college is a 
real problem in this country. We can't seem to agree on how it 
is that we are going to bring down tuition costs.
    This is the kind of thing that Americans want us to be 
working on, to the point that my colleague was making here. 
They want us to come together and actually dig into the problem 
of how we solve this so that every student has an opportunity 
to go to college.
    That is not actually why we are here today. It is so clear 
that this is not what this is actually about. Dr. Morgan, I am 
so glad that you are here, and I thank you so much for your 
time.
    Can you take us through the crux of what it is that we are 
supposed to be doing here, which is unpacking all of this?
    What are the things that are driving these higher costs in 
education?
    Dr. Morgan. Yes. Thank you for the question. It differs 
really by sector. There are a lot of varied factors that go 
into college costs.
    It really differs by the type of institution and the type 
of business model. So, when we take a look at a for-profit 
college, they are out to maximize their profit.
    The cost of providing the education is actually quite low 
and doesn't really drive the tuition prices. Their cost of 
marketing is quite high because they are trying to bring people 
in the door.
    When we think about State institutions and community 
colleges that are educating the majority of students who go to 
college in this country, studies have shown that the thing that 
is really driving their costs or the cost of tuition is State 
appropriations.
    That is why I have been quite focused on what Federal and 
State aid, and local aid as well, is going to these colleges 
and how what we do at the Federal level impacts those State 
budgets. Because we are going to see a squeeze on the State 
budgets that increase the price of tuition.
    What we have seen in the past is it takes a really long 
time to unwind that, even if we are looking at something that 
only affects a given year.
    Ms. Balint. What you are saying is true that if we are not 
investing in the institutions that most of our students go to, 
we are compounding the problem.
    Dr. Morgan. That is right.
    Ms. Balint. I really appreciate that. When we are talking 
about the affordability problem, are we talking about all 
institutions of higher education in the United States? Or is it 
just the Ivies?
    Dr. Morgan. There is a broad swath of colleges where the 
tuition is quite high and where they are using these opaque 
discounting models to get to a net price.
    There are a lot of colleges in this country that have held 
their costs quite low, despite weathering the storms of State 
budgets and cuts to Federal aid, and are really doing their 
best to provide an education at a transparent price to people 
where they can come out with as little debt as possible.
    I do think one thing to think about with that group of 
institutions and that group of students is how the costs in the 
rest of those students' lives have gone up.
    Ms. Balint. That is right.
    Dr. Morgan. For community college students in particular, 
they are going to be affected by cuts to things like SNAP. They 
are also affected by the impact of things like the tariffs, and 
the cost of living increases that this is having for families.
    So, for them, the whole package and their indebtedness to 
achieve an education is going to be higher because of all the 
rising costs that we are seeing right now.
    Ms. Balint. I really appreciate that. It is a complicated 
problem. It requires a seriousness of purpose and not some sham 
hearing.
    My Republican colleagues are not here to seriously 
investigate the problem of college affordability. They are here 
to advance Donald Trump's culture war against people and 
institutions that he doesn't like, and to go after anyone who 
remotely disagrees with him.
    He wants to continue to silence the opposition. The reason 
I know this is because my Republican colleagues, every single 
one of them across the aisle here voted to eliminate or reduce 
student aid, increase monthly student loan payments, and drive 
students to take out predatory private loans.
    This hearing once again, which we have seen over and over 
again in this Committee, is to do the President's dirty work. 
We have real work that we should be doing to support our 
students, but we are preoccupied with going after the 
President's supposed political enemies.
    It is a shame, and it is a disservice to our students 
across this country. I yield back.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. The gentlewoman yields back. The 
gentlewoman from Wyoming is recognized for five minutes.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. I yield my five minutes to Mr. 
Nehls from Texas.
    Mr. Nehls. Thank you, Ms. Hageman. Thank you for our 
witnesses taking the time to be here. As we have already 
discussed, the tuition rates at self-proclaimed elite 
universities have ballooned over the years due to longstanding 
collusion between them, longstanding collusion.
    This has allowed these schools to accumulate the kind of 
severe administrative bloat rarely seen outside of our own 
Federal Government.
    As Dr. Cooper testified, Ivy League Universities average 
one noninstructional staff per two students. How do you like 
that ratio?
    Yet, the average private university gets by with one third, 
the administrative staff. Much like we see in the Federal 
Government at some point bureaucracies, they get so big, fat 
and bloated that they serve no real purpose other than to 
justify their own existence.
    If these elite universities have one administrative 
employee for every two students, then what exactly are they 
employed to do?
    Well, one of our witnesses, Mr. Alex Shieh, decided to ask. 
Great question, Alex. Pursuant to his work as a student 
journalist, investigating administrative bloat at Brown, Mr. 
Shieh emailed all 3,805 nonfaculty employees of the university 
to inquire about what their job entailed. Right?
    Rather than simply respond to the inquiry, Brown chose to 
initiate disciplinary proceedings against Mr. Shieh. I was so 
appalled when I heard about this that I wrote a letter to Brown 
urging them to reverse course.
    I believe our fearless leader, Chair Jordan in the 
Committee, they wrote a letter and Brown reversed course. I am 
glad they did.
    It is one thing to create a vast, useless administrative 
bureaucracy to justify an exorbitant tuition rate of $93,000. 
To punish a student journalist for daring to ask a question 
about it, is unacceptable.
    Mr. Shieh, what first prompted you to make the inquiry?
    Mr. Shieh. That is an excellent question. Brown has a $46 
million budget shortfall, even while charging students the 
price of a luxury car. It doesn't seem like they want to cut 
any administrators. They have hiring freezes, but they are not 
willing to cut any jobs.
    I thought this was something that needed to be looked into.
    Mr. Nehls. Why do you think the employees that you emailed 
didn't answer your questions, many of them didn't respond?
    Mr. Shieh. Well, some of them answered. The ones who 
answered seemed to have pretty useful jobs. I guess we can 
maybe infer that the ones who didn't have jobs that are not so 
important.
    Mr. Nehls. The ones that didn't were too embarrassed. They 
were too embarrassed; they weren't going to respond to you.
    Why do you think schools like Brown might be more frugal in 
administrative spending if they had to pay the same 21 percent 
tax rate on their endowment profits as corporations?
    Mr. Shieh. Certainly, when you have to pay higher taxes, 
there is less money floating around, and you got to tighten the 
budget.
    Mr. Nehls. Now, that is beautiful. We put it in 
reconciliation now for these universities. It was 1.4, now it 
is going to go to 21 percent. Twenty-one percent, I am so 
excited that this legislation was in our reconciliation.
    How about you, Dr. Cooper, what do you think?
    Mr. Cooper. I think that the 21 percent tax on endowments 
will probably induce some belt tightening among these Ivy 
League institutions.
    I would also note that the taxes are structured such that 
if you expand your enrollment, you face a lower tax rate. That 
might be an inducement that some of these colleges need to 
actually admit more qualified students from middle income 
backgrounds.
    Mr. Nehls. Well, let me be clear, we are not actually 
taxing the endowment itself. It is the net profits, the 
earnings on their investments. We are expecting $7-$10 billion 
annually, $7-$10 billion is a big deal.
    Mr. Cooper, the average four-year private university costs 
around $35,000 per student, while the Ivy Leagues average 
$126,000. To what degree is administrative bloat attributed to 
this?
    Mr. Cooper. I can't imagine that most of that extra 
$126,000 in spending per student is really going to benefit 
students. What we see is much higher administrator to student 
ratios at Ivy League institutions than other private colleges.
    Mr. Nehls. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Hageman. Mr. Chair, I 
yield back.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. The gentleman yields back and the 
gentlewoman from Wyoming's time is yielded back. I now 
recognize the gentleman from Illinois for five minutes.
    Mr. Garcia. Thank you, Mr. Chair. This hearing highlights a 
real problem, the crisis of affordability in higher education.
    Instead of focusing on systemic issues and solutions, 
Republicans have chosen a narrow and misleading target, the Ivy 
League, which enrolls less than one percent, half of one 
percent of all undergraduate students.
    It has been stated before, rising costs are not unique to 
the Ivy League. Over the last two decades, tuition and fees at 
private and public universities have increased by over 100 
percent.
    This problem isn't limited to antitrust violations by the 
Ivy League. It is a problem that affects working families, 
regardless of which school students attend.
    This problem is rooted in the commodification of education. 
Many schools have become real estate trust and hedge funds that 
treat education as an afterthought.
    They gained the ranking system by jacking up tuition, 
offering discounts in the form of financial aid, knowing that 
they can exploit the student loan program and load their 
students with debt. This model has been a disaster for students 
and for our economy.
    Higher education is becoming more essential and more 
unafford-
able. Over 40 million people hold nearly $2 trillion in debt. 
The Black and Latino students, immigrant students, and first-
generation students in particular, are being priced out of 
opportunity.
    In addition to antitrust enforcement, Congress must act, 
and we should consider policy options like tuition free public 
college, caps on tuition increases, increased need-based aid 
reforms to the student loan system, and support for trade and 
vocational schools. Not everyone needs to go to college.
    If Republicans were serious about affordability, we would 
see policy solutions. We don't see that. Instead, we see 
culture wars. Let's talk about what they actually do.
    Ms. Morgan, thank you for being here. Let me ask you a 
simple yes or no question. Does gutting the Department of 
Education lower tuition costs?
    Dr. Morgan. It does not.
    Mr. Garcia. Thank you. Does cutting research funding for 
universities lower tuition costs?
    Dr. Morgan. It does not.
    Mr. Garcia. Does funding financial aid, does cutting 
financial aid programs and student debt relief lower tuition 
costs?
    Dr. Morgan. It definitely does not.
    Mr. Garcia. Does suppressing free speech and enforcing a 
Trump approved ideology lower tuition costs?
    Dr. Morgan. It does not.
    Mr. Garcia. Thank you. As usual, Republicans are pretending 
to be firefighters when they are actually arsonists. We need to 
address the cost of higher education. Nothing in their cruel 
Reconciliation Bill does that.
    This hearing is just a hypocritical distraction. 
Republicans fight culture wars, they manufacture outrage, and 
funnel taxpayer dollars to billionaires and to ICE, while 
defunding higher education, programs that help working class 
students, those that I represent in Congress, and other vital 
resources for our communities.
    Working families and our communities deserve better. Thank 
you, and I yield back.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. The gentleman yields back. The gentleman 
from North Carolina is now recognized for five minutes.
    Mr. Harris. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to all of you 
that are on the panel today for your testimony. I have been in 
and out of other Committee meetings, but I did have the 
privilege of reading your written testimoneys in advance.
    I do want to just ask you a couple of questions. For 
decades, elite universities were protected by the antitrust 
exemption under the understanding that they were going to 
provide this need blind financial aid, which they arguably are 
not.
    Mr. Martin, I want to go to you first. In your view, did 
the exemption do anything meaningful to bring down colleges' 
costs to make or make colleges expense more accessible?
    Mr. Martin. I have not studied that Congressman. I am aware 
of nothing.
    Mr. Harris. OK. We really have seen what 30 years of 
colluding about the financial aid formulas did to college 
affordability and accessibility. The exemption expired in 2022.
    So, my question again, Mr. Martin, would be to you, if we 
want students to be offered the best college experience at the 
lowest possible price, should Congress enact another antitrust 
exemption like Section 568, or force the schools to compete 
against one another?
    Mr. Martin. As an antitrust lawyer, Congressman, the free 
market is generally the best tool for solving problems of 
prices.
    Mr. Harris. Well, and I too, I believe that competition 
would play a role in bringing down college costs. We have data 
from the last 30 years that the antitrust exemption only 
succeeded in making our elite institutions more elite and 
further removed the needs of everyday Americans. Thank you. 
Thank you for your response.
    I want to go to Mr. Shieh. Mr. Shieh, you caused quite a 
stir with your email to Brown's employees. Your efforts to 
shine a light on Brown University's excess mirror our fight in 
Congress to cut wasteful spending as we are dealing with it day 
in and day out.
    Can you, I want to give you a chance to explain your 
motivation for shining a light on what you describe as 
administrative bloat.
    Mr. Shieh. Exactly. Well, I think the root of the problem 
is that Brown is just so darn unaffordable for our students 
across the country. That is why Brown has the richest median 
income of all the Ivy League schools.
    Like I said, half of the Brown student body is from the top 
five percent of Americans. I just think that is wrong. I think 
that is morally wrong, because the Ivy League is supposed to be 
a ladder to the American dream.
    We are pulling up the ladder so that only rich kids can 
access it. I think that is wrong.
    Mr. Harris. I noticed in your written testimony that you 
pointed out there is roughly a ratio of one administrator for 
every two students. I have got to ask you, is this necessary 
for Brown students to obtain a degree?
    Mr. Shieh. Certainly not. We have seen that in the past, 
Brown didn't have this ratio, and it has functioned fine for 
hundreds of years.
    Across the pond, Oxford and Cambridge don't have that many 
administrators and they function fine. Certainly, all these 
administrators are not necessary.
    Mr. Harris. I would say, does this number of administrators 
meaningfully impact on the overall experience of Brown 
students?
    Mr. Shieh. Certainly not. They might even detract from it, 
because when budget cuts need to be made, the enormous 
administrative bloat means that, and their unwillingness to 
reduce it means that the costs have to be cut somewhere else.
    Mr. Harris. Right. So, which leads, you almost answered my 
other question, is how could cutting some of the bloat benefit 
the consumer that is looking to come to Brown?
    Mr. Shieh. Well, absolutely. Like dorms flood, the food is 
unappetizingly bad, and the quality just keeps getting worse.
    They are reducing red meat from all the dining halls. They 
say it is about the environment, but it is really about the 
cost. By reducing administrative bloat, we definitely could see 
some improvements in the student experience.
    Mr. Harris. Thank you. Dr. Cooper, let me ask you, you said 
in your written testimony that,

        The surplus revenues that Ivy League institutions currently 
        enjoy fuel administrative bloat, but they could instead be used 
        to create more seats for qualified applicants.

    Can you explain the benefits for our entire Nation that 
could come from increased enrollment at these elite 
institutions?
    Mr. Cooper. Absolutely. Right now, if you look at elite 
institutions' graduates, they are vastly over-represented in 
the elites of business, politics, and media.
    If we were to expand Ivy League undergraduate colleges to 
more students that would enable more students to get their foot 
in the door for this pipeline, and enable a greater diversity 
of folks in those elite positions.
    I would love to see Ivy League institutions use their 
endowments and use all the money they are currently spending on 
administration to expand and create opportunities for more of 
those students.
    Mr. Harris. Well, thank you. Thank you to all of you for 
shining the light that you are shining today. Mr. Chair, with 
that, I yield back.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. The gentleman yields back. Without 
objection, I ask unanimous consents to enter into the record 
the following: A press release from the Department of Justice 
titled, ``Consent Decree Settles Charge of Conspiracy to 
Restrain Price Competition on Financial Aid Against Major 
Universities.''
    An article by Sahaj Sharda titled, ``How to Crush the Ivy 
League Cartel.''
    Finally, document Number 753-18, filed in the case of Henry 
v. Brown University, on December 16, 2024.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. We now recognize the gentleman from Georgia 
for five minutes.
    Mr. Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Let's be clear, 
everybody, there is no 568 antitrust exemption thanks to the 
Biden Administration.
    As far as Mr. Shieh's testimony is concerned, it is, Brown 
did not discipline Mr. Shieh, contrary to his report. Also, Mr. 
Shieh's numbers in terms of administration staff for Brown 
University are incorrect.
    I am surprised that you would pull up the ladder for 
students who are going to regular universities and colleges to 
prevent them from getting financial aid. That is crazy.
    At any rate, Donald Trump and his MAGA Republican 
supporters in Congress are attacking our elite institutions of 
higher learning, because these institutions and others produce 
the critical thinkers who stand opposed to the global trend 
toward authori-tarianism and dictatorship, which Donald Trump 
and MAGA represent.
    They say this hearing is about eight Ivy League 
institutions and the cost of higher education, but that is just 
a facade. This is really about Trump's war on facts, debate, 
and truth.
    This is Trump's attack on academia, which comes straight 
out of the authoritarian playbook. Universities are full of 
smart, young, engaged people, and the institutions are 
committed to freedom of inquiry and diversity of thought.
    Universities provide independent sources of information and 
accountability. Indeed, individuals with higher levels of 
education are less likely to be tricked by authoritarian 
appeals.
    Any autocrat or dictator who wants to exercise limitless, 
arbitrary power, sees independent institutions of higher 
education as a threat. After all, Donald Trump can't replace 
our democracy with a dictatorial regime if the people are smart 
enough to recognize that he is a threat to freedom, liberty, 
and justice, which are democracy guarantees.
    Dr. Morgan, I believe that academia and it is inextricably 
tied to our democracy and to our liberty. Can you talk about 
why higher education is important for the protection of freedom 
and democracy?
    Dr. Morgan. Absolutely. First, our institutions of higher 
learning are places where people come together and learn, and 
have to be in the same place as people with different opinions.
    It really promotes democratic values from the start. To 
your point, universities can also be a place of free inquiry 
that can result in information that can oppose or point out 
flaws in larger societal trends or political trends.
    They can be really important voices in our societies. They 
are also places that produce research that can help us better 
understand what is happening in the world around us, including 
what is happening, the kind of effects of the negative changes 
that a Presidential administration might be putting in place.
    They are incredibly important to our democracy and to our 
society.
    Mr. Johnson. Thank you. As a lawyer, I have watched with 
horror as a number of law firms bent a knee and succumbed to 
Donald Trump's unlawful pressure campaign.
    I am proud of the brave firms that chose to stand up for 
the rule of law. Now, as Trump goes after the universities, I 
am equally concerned.
    In March, Columbia University caved to Trump's demands when 
the administration threatened to yank away $400 million in 
Federal funding. Yet, more recently, Harvard is showing 
backbone and rejecting Trump's demands.
    Dr. Morgan, why is it important that universities stand up 
against the administration's attacks and conversely, what would 
happen if universities succumbed and started towing the line 
for this administration?
    Dr. Morgan. Yes. I think it is incredibly important that 
universities follow the law, but do not submit to demands that 
have nothing to do with their legal requirements.
    You can see in the attacks on Harvard, and the kind of 
proposed solutions from the Trump Administration that they are 
looking to really control the minutia of the decisions at those 
colleges. That is not an appropriate role for the Federal 
Government to take.
    The other thing that is important to understand here, is 
that other universities are going to take their cues from what 
these much better resourced institutions are able to do in 
terms of standing up to the administration.
    It is really important those universities that have the 
resources to do so to take a stand.
    Mr. Johnson. So, attacking elite institutions is a canary 
in the coal mine.
    Dr. Morgan. That is right.
    Mr. Johnson. All institutions of higher learning are under 
attack.
    Dr. Morgan. That is right.
    Mr. Johnson. Thank you. With that, I yield back.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. The gentleman yields back. I now recognize 
the Chair of the Full Committee, Mr. Jordan for five minutes.
    Chair Jordan. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Shieh, what did you 
say tuition was again at Brown, annual tuition?
    Mr. Shieh. It is $93,064 in direct costs.
    Chair Jordan. The $93,000 doesn't count the room and board, 
books, and everything. That is just tuition, right?
    Mr. Shieh. No. That is including room and board.
    Chair Jordan. That is everything? OK, $93,000. How many 
students do you say again, was at Brown, over 7,000 you said?
    Mr. Shieh. Seven thousand.
    Chair Jordan. Yes. That is a lot of money coming in. It 
could be some grants; it could be some loans or whatever.
    The $93,000  7, it is like $700 million coming 
into Brown every year. You asked the fundamental question, sort 
of a simple question. You asked the question, where the heck is 
all the money going, right?
    You said, ``Maybe I will check the administrators. How many 
administrators are they having?'' You said, I think the number 
you said was 3,805, is that right?
    Mr. Shieh. Yes.
    Chair Jordan. Then, you sent a letter to these guys asking 
another fundamental question, what do you do all day?
    What was the response you said? Most of them didn't get 
back with you?
    Mr. Shieh. Most of them didn't respond. We were hit with 
disciplinary charges.
    Chair Jordan. The administrators couldn't respond to a 
simple question, you are taking in $700 million a year. What 
the heck are you 3,800 administrators doing every day?
    The administrators didn't respond, but the administration 
came after you. Is that right?
    Mr. Shieh. That is right. When you investigate the 
administration, it turns out they investigated you back.
    Chair Jordan. Yes. It was interesting to me, because the 
Ranking Member of the Full Committee and the Ranking Member of 
the Subcommittee talked about academic freedom and the First 
Amendment.
    You were asking these questions on behalf of a student news 
publication, right?
    Mr. Shieh. Right.
    Chair Jordan. Was it Brown, what is the name of your paper, 
The Brown Spectator?
    Mr. Shieh. Yes.
    Chair Jordan. They come after you. Why do you think they 
did that? Why did they come after--well, first, what did they 
come after you about? What did you allegedly do wrong?
    Mr. Shieh. Well, first it was emotional and psychological 
harm, invasion of privacy, and misrepresentation. Then, they 
decided to charge me with violating the technology policy.
    Chair Jordan. You are asking someone how they spend your 
money is emotional harm? That is what they alleged?
    Mr. Shieh. Apparently.
    Chair Jordan. Then, what happened in the investigation?
    Mr. Shieh. Well, then they escalated it. They then charged 
the entire Board of Directors of The Brown Spectator for 
violating Brown's trademark, because our publication is named 
The Brown Spectator, which is just a completely bogus claim.
    Chair Jordan. Are there other newspapers at Brown that use 
Brown in the name of their paper?
    Mr. Shieh. Yes. Our other newspaper is the Brown Daily 
Herald.
    Chair Jordan. Probably in the entire history of the 
university, there has been some kind of Brown publication, 
right?
    Mr. Shieh. Certainly.
    Chair Jordan. Yes. That is just ridiculous. Why do you 
really think they did it? Why did they really come after you?
    Mr. Shieh. I think that they were upset that we unveiled 
the rot that was going on, all these administrators with pretty 
useless jobs.
    Chair Jordan. That is certainly one reason they were mad at 
you. It is probably more, I think they were trying to make sure 
no one else would do it in the future.
    Mr. Shieh. Yes.
    Chair Jordan. That is always the way it works. The Left 
comes after people, they want to chill speech so it doesn't 
happen again. Do you think that was part of their motivation?
    Mr. Shieh. I think that certainly was true. It backfired 
terribly.
    Chair Jordan. It sure did. It sure did, because you are 
brave enough to keep talking. You can come here and testify. 
So, God bless you for doing that.
    Now, you can have, I will direct this to you, Mr. Martin, 
you can have a bloated bureaucracy when you are colluding on 
price and making sure you are not competing on price with other 
similarly situated institutions.
    Is that right, Mr. Martin?
    Mr. Martin. Yes.
    Chair Jordan. You are not supposed to do that, are you, 
according to the law? Is that right Mr. Martin?
    Mr. Martin. To collude on price? It is per se unlawful.
    Chair Jordan. It is per se unlawful. You can also have 
bloated bureaucracy when you collude on price and you limit 
output, you limit class size.
    Is that right, Mr. Martin?
    Mr. Martin. That is correct.
    Chair Jordan. Do you think that is going on at these--oh, 
there is a third one.
    You can also do all this if you engage in perfect price 
discrimination, where you get all this information on the 
student and their families, what they make, where it goes, what 
they owe, what their retirement is, all this information, and 
you can say that student can pay this amount and you will take 
it right to the edge where they can pay and get perfect price 
discrimination.
    So, when you do those three things, you can afford to have 
3,805 administrators for 7,000 students. Is that right Mr. 
Martin?
    Mr. Martin. You make an excellent point. The more perfect 
the information, the more perfect the collusion can be, 
algorithmically or otherwise.
    Chair Jordan. Of course, That is exactly what is going on. 
Is that right, Dr. Cooper?
    Mr. Cooper. The evidence is certainly consistent with that, 
yes.
    Chair Jordan. That is what the evidence shows. Yet, the 
other side says, oh, how dare Mr. Fitzgerald have this hearing. 
You got to be kidding me.
    They tried to chill the speech of a news publication at the 
university, for a student they are supposed to be serving, 
asking a simple and fundamental question. They want to chill 
that because they don't want anyone to look under the covers 
and see that they are colluding on price, they are limiting 
output, and they are doing perfect price discrimination.
    Imagine that. Imagine that. We are not supposed to have a 
hearing. Holy cow. I want to thank the Chair for doing the 
hearing.
    I want to thank all of you for testifying. Mr. Shieh, thank 
you for stepping forward and letting the country know what is 
going on at these elite universities.
    Mr. Raskin. Would the gentleman yield for a quick question?
    Chair Jordan. I yield back to the Chair. I will yield. You 
have got a few.
    Mr. Raskin. Well, I just wonder if your feelings are the 
same about the attacks on a private student publication called 
the Harvard Law Review taking place by the Trump Administration 
right now?
    Chair Jordan. Well, I think the Chair--or the Ranking 
Member knows that you and I have been strong defenders of the 
press. We have co-sponsored together the PRESS Act, defending 
the press. I will continue to do that.
    Mr. Raskin. Very good.
    Chair Jordan. I am focused on the situation in front of us 
today and Mr. Shieh at Brown University.
    Mr. Raskin. I am with you. Hold the thought. More power to 
the free press at Brown and at Harvard.
    Chair Jordan. God bless America.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. The gentleman's time has expired. That 
concludes today's hearing. We want to thank our witnesses.
    Mr. Nadler. Mr. Chair, I have a unanimous consent request.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Mr. Nadler has a UC request.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I ask for unanimous 
consent to enter into the record an article entitled, ``Ivy 
League School's Financial Aid,'' from the Ivy Coach Daily. It 
says, moreover, while the sticker price at the Ivy League 
schools is high, about $90,000 per year, roughly half of the 
students receive financial aid with average awards covering 
two-thirds or more of the cost.
    The vast majority of students from Ivy League schools 
graduate with no loans. Half of the Ivy League schools offer a 
completely free education to families whose income is $75,000 
or less.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. That is the title or the whole article?
    Mr. Nadler. That is the whole article.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Yes. Without objection.
    Mr. Nadler. I have a second unanimous consent request that 
is shorter. I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record 
and article from Chicago Booth Review titled, ``Who's at Fault 
For Student Loan Defaults,'' that argues that this article 
reviews, researches, and analyzes student loan defaults and 
finds that for-profit colleges, half of the student loan 
defaults are from programs that only enroll 10 percent of U.S. 
students. Furthermore, the review argues that default rates are 
not being driven by tuition costs.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Without objection.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. That concludes today's hearing. I want to 
thank the witnesses for appearing before the Committee today.
    Without objection, all the Members will have five 
legislative days to submit additional written questions for the 
witnesses and additional materials for the record. Without 
objection, the hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:58 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

    All materials submitted for the record by Members of the 
Subcommittee on the Administrative State, Regulatory Reform, 
and Antitrust can be found at: https://docs.house.gov/
Committee/
Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=118342.

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