[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                  ENHANCING COMPETITION: SHAPING THE FUTURE 
                  OF BANK MERGERS AND DE NOVO FORMATION

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE
                               
                        SUBCOMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL 
                               INSTITUTIONS

                                 OF THE

                    COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                              MAY 14, 2025

                               __________

                           Serial No. 119-23

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Financial Services
       
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]       

                           www.govinfo.gov
                           
                                __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
60-552 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------     
                          
                 HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES

                    FRENCH HILL, Arkansas, Chairman

BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan, Vice        MAXINE WATERS, California, Ranking 
    Chairman                             Member
FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma             SYLVIA R. GARCIA, Texas, Vice 
PETE SESSIONS, Texas                     Ranking Member
ANN WAGNER, Missouri                 NYDIA M. VELAZQUEZ, New York
ANDY BARR, Kentucky                  BRAD SHERMAN, California
ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas                GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York
TOM EMMER, Minnesota                 DAVID SCOTT, Georgia
BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia            STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts
WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio                AL GREEN, Texas
JOHN W. ROSE, Tennessee              EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri
BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin               JAMES A. HIMES, Connecticut
WILLIAM R. TIMMONS, IV, South        BILL FOSTER, Illinois
    Carolina                         JOYCE BEATTY, Ohio
MARLIN STUTZMAN, Indiana             JUAN VARGAS, California
RALPH NORMAN, South Carolina         JOSH GOTTHEIMER, New Jersey
DANIEL MEUSER, Pennsylvania          VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas
YOUNG KIM, California                SEAN CASTEN, Illinois
BYRON DONALDS, Florida               AYANNA PRESSLEY, Massachusetts
ANDREW R. GARBARINO, New York        RASHIDA TLAIB, Michigan
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin          RITCHIE TORRES, New York
MIKE FLOOD, Nebraska                 NIKEMA WILLIAMS, Georgia
MICHAEL LAWLER, New York             BRITTANY PETTERSEN, Colorado
MONICA DE LA CRUZ, Texas             CLEO FIELDS, Louisiana
ANDREW OGLES, Tennessee              JANELLE BYNUM, Oregon
ZACHARY NUNN, Iowa                   SAM LICCARDO, California
LISA McCLAIN, Michigan
MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
TROY DOWNING, Montana
MIKE HARIDOPOLOS, Florida
TIM MOORE, North Carolina

                      Ben Johnson, Staff Director

                                 ------                                

                 SUBCOMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS

                     ANDY BARR, Kentucky, Chairman

BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia,           BILL FOSTER, Illinois, Ranking 
    Vice Chairman                        Member
BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan              NYDIA M. VELAZQUEZ, New York
ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas                GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York
JOHN W. ROSE, Tennessee              DAVID SCOTT, Georgia
WILLIAM R. TIMMONS IV, South         BRAD SHERMAN, California
    Carolina                         AL GREEN, Texas
RALPH NORMAN, South Carolina         JUAN VARGAS, California
DANIEL MEUSER, Pennsylvania          SEAN CASTEN, Illinois
YOUNG KIM, California                STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts
BYRON DONALDS, Florida               JOYCE BEATTY, Ohio
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin          CLEO FIELDS, Louisiana
MIKE FLOOD, Nebraska
MONICA DE LA CRUZ, Texas
TIM MOORE, North Carolina
                         
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                        Wednesday, May 14, 2025
                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
Hon. Andy Barr, Chairman of the Subcommittee on Financial 
  Institutions, a U.S. Representative from Kentucky..............     1
Hon. Bill Foster, Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on Financial 
  Institutions, a U.S. Representative from Illinois..............     3

                               STATEMENTS

Hon. French Hill, Chairman of the Committee on Financial 
  Services, a U.S. Representative from Arkansas..................     4
Hon. Maxine Waters, Ranking Member of the Committee on Financial 
  Services, a U.S. Representative from California................     4

                               WITNESSES

Mr. Keith Costello, President and CEO, Locality Bank.............     5
    Prepared statement...........................................     7
Ms. Mary Usategui, President and CEO, BankMiami..................    13
    Prepared statement...........................................    15
Ms. Amanda K. Allexon, Partner, Simpson Thacher & Barlett LLP....    22
    Prepared statement...........................................    24
Mr. John Berlau, Senior Fellow and Director of Finance Policy, 
  Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI).........................    34
    Prepared statement...........................................    36
Mrs. ReShonda Young, Founder, Jabez, Inc.........................    42
    Prepared statement...........................................    44

                                APPENDIX
                 RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD

Written responses to questions for the record from Representative 
  Maxine Waters
    Mr. Keith Costello...........................................    72
    Ms. Mary Usategui............................................    73
    Mr. John Berlau..............................................    74

                              LEGISLATION

H.R. ----, the Bank Failure Prevention Act of 2025...............    75
H.J.Res. 92, Providing for congressional disapproval under 
  chapter 8 of title 5, United States Code, of the rule submitted 
  by the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency of the 
  Department of the Treasury relating to the review of 
  applications under the Bank Merger Act.........................    84
H.R. ----, the Financial Institution Regulatory Tailoring 
  Enhancement Act................................................    86
H.R. ----, the Stress Testing Accountability and Transparency Act    88
H.R. ----, the Bringing the Discount Window into the 21st Century 
  Act............................................................    91
H.R. ----, a bill to require the Comptroller of the Currency to 
  study how bank-fintech partnerships can support new bank 
  formation......................................................    98
H.R. ----, a bill to require the Federal prudential regulators to 
  study improving the growth, capital adequacy, and profitability 
  of rural depository institutions...............................   100
H.R. ----, a bill to require annual reports on Federal depository 
  institution charter applications, bank holding company 
  applications, Federal deposit insurance applications, and State 
  depository institution charter applications....................   102
H.R. ----, a bill to require the Comptroller General of the 
  United States to study the consideration of insured depository 
  institution merger applications by Federal prudential 
  regulators to ensure they align with statutory requirements and 
  are not in any way influenced by political issues or 
  considerations.................................................   106
H.R. ----, a bill to require the Inspector General of each 
  Federal prudential regulator to carry out a review of every 3 
  years of the regulator's handling of insured depository 
  institution merger applications................................   109

 
           ENHANCING COMPETITION: SHAPING THE FUTURE OF BANK
                     MERGERS AND DE NOVO FORMATION

                              ----------                              


                        Wednesday, May 14, 2025

             U.S. House of Representatives,
            Subcommittee on Financial Institutions,
                           Committee on Financial Services,
                                                    Washington, DC.

    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:15 p.m., in 
room 2128, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Andy Barr 
[chairman of the subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Barr, Huizenga, Williams of Texas, 
Rose, Timmons, Norman, Meuser, Kim, Fitzgerald, Flood, De La 
Cruz, Moore, Foster, Waters, Velazquez, Sherman, Green, Vargas, 
Casten, Lynch, Beatty, and Fields.
    Chairman Barr. The committee will come to order.
    Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a 
recess of the committee at any time.
    This hearing is titled, ``Enhancing Competition: Shaping 
the Future of Bank Mergers and De Novo Formation.''
    Without objection, all members will have 5 legislative days 
within which to submit extraneous materials to the chair for 
inclusion in the record.
    I now recognize myself for 4 minutes for an opening 
statement.

     OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. ANDY BARR, CHAIRMAN OF THE 
 SUBCOMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE 
                         FROM KENTUCKY

    First, let me thank our witnesses for joining us today and 
lending their expertise to such an important discussion. This 
subcommittee is focused on how we in Congress can strengthen 
competition and encourage innovation in the banking sector, 
particularly by improving the bank merger process and creating 
a regulatory environment that supports the formation of new 
banks. Despite what my colleagues on the other side of the 
aisle like to attest, mergers and acquisitions are not 
inherently bad. In fact, they are an essential part of a 
dynamic and evolving financial system. They allow community and 
regional banks to grow into new markets, reach more customers, 
diversify their services, and achieve economies of scale, all 
of which can translate into lower costs and better access to 
banking services for families and small businesses across the 
country.
    In reality, mergers are pro-competition, something that all 
capitalists in this room should promote, but today, the merger 
process is broken. The current system for reviewing bank 
mergers is too slow, too uncertain, and too costly. Delays and 
unpredictable agency reviews discourage applications, drain 
bank resources, and lead to employee attrition, all while 
deterring the kind of strategic consolidation that could 
benefit consumers. That is why I have introduced the Bank 
Failure Prevention Act, a bill to bring more certainty and 
efficiency to the merger review process. This bill would put a 
shot clock on merger applications--this is a term that we like 
in basketball in Kentucky--requiring Federal banking agencies 
to complete their merger reviews within a specific timeframe, 
which will provide clarity to applicant banks and reduce 
unnecessary, costly delays.
    I have also introduced a Congressional Review Act 
resolution to overturn the political and harmful merger rule 
issued under the prior administration, a rule that has 
thankfully been rescinded by acting comptroller, Rodney Hood. 
We must prevent future leadership from reinstating those 
misguided policies, and I intend to see that resolution 
through. This Congressional Review Act (CRA) has passed the 
Senate, and I urge House leadership to bring it to the floor 
for a vote.
    On a separate front, I remain deeply concerned about the 
decline in de novo bank formation, which has all but dried up 
since Dodd-Frank. In the past 10 years, only 60 new banks have 
been chartered in this country. That is not a sign of 
stability. It is a sign of stagnation. That is why I have 
introduced the Promoting New Bank Formation Act, which recently 
passed this committee with bipartisan support. This bill would 
give new banks the breathing room they need by phasing in 
capital requirements and lowering the community bank leverage 
ratio in their early years. We need to remove barriers, not 
build them higher, if we want to revitalize community banking. 
As consolidation occurs in the midsize and regional banking 
segment of the market, we need to backfill that with more de 
novo charters to preserve the diversity and heterogeneity of 
the banking sector because the truth is this: a banking system 
with no new entrants and stifled growth is not safe. It is 
fragile.
    The last decade has proven that excessive regulation is 
choking innovation, driving consolidation, and leaving too many 
communities without access to basic banking services. We need a 
course correction. Today's hearing is an important step in that 
direction, and it is a step in terms of preserving a dynamic 
banking system where healthy mergers, healthy consolidation, 
can occur to provide better services and more competition to 
the big, largest too-big-to-fail banks, and also provide those 
new entrants and that dynamism so that we preserve those 
relationship lenders and the new business formation, the 
entrepreneurship, on main street, USA. I look forward to 
hearing from our panel and engaging in a thoughtful discussion, 
and with that, I yield back.
    The chair now recognizes the ranking member of the 
subcommittee, Dr. Foster, for 4 minutes for an opening 
statement.

 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BILL FOSTER, RANKING MEMBER OF THE 
 SUBCOMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE 
                         FROM ILLINOIS

    Mr. Foster. Thank you, Chairman Barr, and to our witnesses.
    Since the 1980s, there has been a steady consolidation 
within the U.S. banking system. Mergers of community banks, a 
drought of de novo bank formation, and the low-interest rate 
environment of the early 2000s contributed to a reduction in 
the total number of commercial banks from around 14,000 in the 
1980s to around 4,500 today. When I was a business owner 
starting and growing my small business, I saw the value of 
having a diverse banking system with a wide distribution of 
institutions by size firsthand. Having multiple banks in the 
community strengthened the negotiating power of our small 
businesses and the many others in our area by forcing financial 
institutions to compete with one another for our business.
    Strong competition in the banking system has been shown to 
lead to better terms, better interest rates, and services for 
American communities. I do not think there is a single member 
of this committee that does not believe that we should use our 
positions here to support small community banks and credit 
unions. To do so, we should enact policies that support those 
institutions, as well as the community development financial 
institutions and minority depository institutions that step in 
to fill the gaps left by other firms. Today, these institutions 
also face unprecedented economic and regulatory uncertainty 
brought on by the Trump Administration's new policies.
    The President has doubled down on the market-wrenching 
tariff policies from his first term that directly impact the 
farmers and the rural communities that many members, including 
myself, represent, as well as paralyzed manufacturers and small 
businesses who work with our community banks. Examiners of 
these institutions are being laid off in the name of efficiency 
when staff shortages at the prudential regulators have been 
cited by the inspector generals as an area of concern. We see a 
move to cutoff funding for the Community Development Financial 
Institutions (CDFI) Fund, which has provided more than $12 
billion of support access to support access to credit in 
unbanked and underbanked communities. Meanwhile, the Consumer 
Financial Protection Bureau has effectively been shut down, 
meaning that small community banks are being supervised for 
compliance with consumer protection laws, while the biggest 
banks have no oversight at all in this area.
    It is easy to say deregulation is the solution to the 
challenges that community banks and credit unions face, but 
that sentiment ignores other reforms that would provide 
benefits to community banks without risking their safety and 
soundness. One area that is ripe for reform is deposit 
insurance. Following the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank, there 
was a flight of nearly $120 billion of deposits from community 
banks and two large banks that were seen as too big to fail. 
Reforms to the discount window, restoration of National Credit 
Union Association's (NCUA's) emergency Central Liquidity Fund 
authorities, and efforts to address the high cost of technology 
for small banks and credit unions are other areas that I feel 
we could find bipartisan solutions for. We have an experienced 
panel before us that has firsthand experience with the merger 
and de novo processes, and I look forward to your testimony 
today. Thank you, Chairman. I yield back.
    Chairman Barr. The gentleman yields back. The chair now 
recognizes the chairman of the full committee, Mr. Hill, for 1 
minute.

  STATEMENT OF HON. FRENCH HILL, CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE ON 
    FINANCIAL SERVICES, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM ARKANSAS

    Mr. Hill. Thank you, Chairman Barr. Today's hearing will 
continue advancing our Making Community Banking Great Again set 
of proposals. Our financial institutions need consistent and 
timely guidance during the bank merger review process. They 
need the tools at their disposal to make informed decisions 
about pursuing or withdrawing applications without wasting time 
and money navigating changing and opaque standards. We must 
reform the regulatory framework in a way that encourages new 
bank entrants to enter the market. We can accomplish this by 
lowering unnecessary barriers, modernizing capital and 
compliance expectations, and restoring a pipeline for community 
financial institutions that fuel our economic growth. Legacy 
rules from Dodd-Frank and recent regulatory trends have 
discouraged market entry, reduced banking access, and favored 
consolidation over competition. This is all at the expense of 
consumers, particularly consumer choice and those in rural and 
underserved areas. I appreciate Chairman Barr's leadership, and 
I look forward to our panel discussion. I yield back.
    Chairman Barr. The gentleman yields. The chair now 
recognizes the ranking member of the full committee, Ms. 
Waters, for 1 minute.

    STATEMENT OF HON. MAXINE WATERS, RANKING MEMBER OF THE 
  COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM 
                           CALIFORNIA

    Ms. Waters. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Good 
afternoon, everyone. Republicans want faster bank mergers, 
which will wipe out community banks and credit unions and leave 
just a few megabanks to serve our constituents. Trump's 
regulators just rubber-stamped the Capital One and Discover 
merger, which will lead to more consumer harm. Democrats 
support the formation of new or de novo banks, and I am pleased 
Mrs. Young is testifying. Mrs. Young bravely responded to 
lending discrimination by suing the Consumer Financial 
Protection Bureau, I do believe, and so I would just like to 
say that I am very pleased that Mrs. Young is here today. I 
have been paying attention to what the gentleman, the chairman, 
has been trying to do, but because this protection bureau, the 
Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), was basically 
challenged by Mrs. Young, we are finding----
    Chairman Barr. The gentlelady's time has expired. The 
gentlelady's time has expired.
    Ms. Waters. Thank you very much. I will listen, and I look 
forward to hearing from the witnesses today.
    Chairman Barr. Today, we welcome the testimony of Mr. Keith 
Costello, President and CEO of Locality Bank; Ms. Mary 
Usategui, President and CEO of BankMiami; Ms. Amanda Allexon, 
Partner of Simpson Thatcher & Bartlett LLP; Mr. John Berlau, 
Senior Fellow and Director of Finance Policy, Competitive 
Enterprise Institute; and Mrs. ReShonda Young, Founder of 
Jabez, Inc. We thank you for taking the time to be here. You 
each will be recognized for 5 minutes to give an oral 
presentation of your testimony. Without objection, your written 
statements will be made part of the record.
    Mr. Costello, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

 STATEMENT OF KEITH COSTELLO, PRESIDENT AND CEO, LOCALITY BANK

    Mr. Costello. Chairman Barr, Ranking Member Foster, members 
of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to speak with 
you today. I am honored to share my perspective on the value 
that de novo banks bring to our economy and our communities.
    I spent nearly 40 years in banking, and I am currently the 
Chairman, President, and CEO of Locality Bank. We launched it 
in Fort Lauderdale, Florida in 2022, recently exiting de novo. 
It was the first new bank opened in South Florida since 2009, 
when I also Co-Founded Broward Bank of Commerce. What drove me 
to start both banks was simple. I was inspired by 
entrepreneurial bankers who had the courage to leave safe, 
comfortable corporate roles to build something local, 
meaningful, and community focused. I saw firsthand how much 
more responsive and impactful a bank can be when headquartered 
in the community it serves, not just a branch of a larger, out-
of-market institution. Community banks are small businesses 
that serve other small businesses. Starting and running one 
gives you a deep appreciation for the challenges entrepreneurs 
face daily, something that cannot be replicated by working in a 
large corporate financial institution.
    So, why are there not more de novo banks? The answer is 
largely economic. Starting a new bank today is not financially 
viable for most entrepreneurs or investors, and the return on 
investment is not competitive with other options. Since the 
Dodd-Frank Act, regulatory burden has increased dramatically. 
Capital requirements are higher, approval timelines longer, 
compliance costs are steep, and these burdens fall hardest on 
the very banks, community banks, that did not cause the 
financial crisis. As a result, we have seen lending shifts 
outside of heavily regulated banks to financial technologys 
(fintechs), private money lenders, and merchant cash advance 
firms. These players do not offer the relationship-based, 
community-focused service that small businesses need.
    My motivation to launch Locality Bank was reinforced during 
the pandemic when I was on the sidelines due to a noncompete. I 
received call after call from local business owners who could 
not access Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) loans or even get 
a call back from their bank. That was a wake-up call. I began 
to look for reasons by studying the local banking market. In 
2015, there were 11 banks headquartered in Broward County. By 
2020, there were only three. Community bank assets had dropped 
from $11 billion to just 600 million. The same thing had 
happened in many other communities across the country. We 
responded by raising $38 million from local citizens and 
business owners to launch Locality Bank. In 3 years, we have 
grown to $300 million in assets, but it was not easy. Our 
capital requirement was double what it was to open a similar 
bank 13 years earlier, and because of regulatory costs, we 
cannot profitably offer consumer banking or residential 
mortgages, services that should be part of a full service 
community bank.
    H.R. 478, the Promoting New Bank Formation Act, would 
alleviate the capital and regulatory obstacles I have 
identified. I thank Chairman Barr for introducing this bill and 
the committee for passing it. H.R. 478 proposes curing capital 
requirements for de novo banks, addressing the very real 
challenges I laid out in raising capital. It proposes a more 
reasoned approach by regulators in responding to changing 
business plans, giving the many appropriate reasons a bank 
would need to deviate from the plan.
    In closing, if we want more de novo banks and all the 
community value that they bring, we must make the economics 
viable. Let's unleash the power of free enterprise, the same 
force that built this country. If that happens, we will not 
need congressional hearings to discuss why new banks are not 
forming. They will already be open for business. Thank you for 
your time and your leadership, and I look forward to your 
questions.

    [Prepared statement of Mr. Costello follows:]
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Chairman Barr. Chairman Barr. Thank you, Mr. Costello. Ms. 
Usategui, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

    STATEMENT OF MARY USATEGUI, PRESIDENT AND CEO, BANKMIAMI

    Ms. Usategui. Chairman Barr, Ranking Member Foster, and 
distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the 
opportunity to appear before you today to talk about my 
experiences as a community banker.
    I am the Founder, President, and CEO of BankMiami, a newly 
formed de novo bank headquartered in Miami, Florida. With over 
20 years of banking experience, I have seen and been involved 
with both de novo formation and been both the acquirer and 
acquiree in a merger and acquisition deal. I am passionate 
about the pivotal role bankers play in supporting the needs of 
our communities and the dreams of our clients. I am sharing my 
story in the hope that it will pave an easier path for others 
to do the same in their communities.
    BankMiami opened its doors almost 2 months ago on March 17, 
a formation process that took twice as long as we initially 
thought it would, with a number of challenges along the way. I 
will outline a few in a moment to showcase how some small 
changes can go a long way in de novo bank reform. When we began 
making the business case for BankMiami, the need for more 
banking services in our market was clear. From 2008 to 2023, 
the number of banks headquartered in Miami-Dade dropped from 42 
to just 18, even as the population and economy exploded. 
Florida's population grew nearly 15 percent between 2010 and 
2020, and Miami saw billions of new business wages, yet there 
had not been any de novo banks since 2008.
    In addition, Miami is a unique market with both domestic 
and international influence. Standardized banking does not 
typically work for much of the county's population, yet the 
majority of the banks that offered bespoke banking solutions 
were acquired during that time. It was the result of mass 
consolidation in our market that led me to realize there was a 
real opportunity for a community bank that focused on custom-
tailored banking solutions. Community banks are the heartbeat 
of our banking system, and without them, small businesses will 
be gravely affected. Mergers and acquisitions are healthy for 
markets, but without new banks forming, communities are left 
underserved. There are many different barriers of entry. 
However, I think the biggest challenge is raising capital for a 
de novo bank under the current rules.
    We had to raise over $32 million to receive our charter. We 
hit about 75 percent of our goal rather quickly, then took 
about another 6 months to finalize and complete our raise. Only 
after we cleared the minimum threshold did many new potential 
investors come forward, and even more so since we opened our 
doors. That is why a capital phase-in period, as proposed in 
Chairman Barr's bill, would be an excellent solution for banks 
that have the clear need in the community, yet may need more 
time to finalize their capital raise. It would allow banks to 
open sooner, meet market needs faster, and bring in investors 
more efficiently.
    Another challenge for de novo banks is that we cannot 
accept capital until the charter application is accepted by our 
regulators. Since there is no clock on how long regulators have 
to accept an application, we cannot give potential investors 
certainty on timing. Many investors who give verbal commitments 
end up putting their capital to work in other investments due 
to the wait time, causing de novo banks to have to find 
additional investors and delaying the capital raise process. 
Moreover, since founders cannot count on a timeline for 
acceptance of an application, much less approval, it can be 
difficult to estimate and manage costs. To apply for the 
charter, we must fund significant expenses, particularly when 
it comes to building the right team and have to pay them to sit 
on the sidelines waiting for approval to begin operating. That 
goes on for months. This delay causes the initial 
organizational expense to be significantly higher as each month 
goes on, requiring more and more capital in the process to 
offset the higher organizational costs.
    I support the efforts of the sponsors in this committee in 
passing H.R. 478. The bill would provide more regulatory 
capital and lending flexibility to facilitate de novo bank 
creation, encourage investment in these banks, and promote 
their viability. In particular, the provision directing Federal 
banking agencies to issue rules that provide for a 3-year 
phase-in of capital standards would lower one of the primary 
barriers I outlined in my statement, raising capital.
    The bill would also allow de novo banks to request 
permission from the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation 
(FDIC) to deviate from the approved business plan. While that 
has not been a problem for BankMiami yet, it certainly would 
provide flexibility for us through the 3 years of de novo 
status that remain ahead. Local economic circumstances change, 
and we must have the ability to adapt so that we can succeed. 
Today, there are 4,487 banks in the United States, nearly 50 
percent lower than that in 2005. Of the banks active today, 
only 85 were established after 2010. I am proud to be one of 
those 85, but there should be more of us.
    I am grateful to the committee for your sincere interest in 
a robust, competitive banking industry that serves our 
customers and communities. I am hopeful that the necessary 
reforms will be made by Congress and Federal and State 
regulators to support that outcome. Thank you for your time and 
attention, and I look forward to your questions. Thank you.

    [Prepared statement of Ms. Usategui follows:]
   [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Chairman Barr. Ms. Allexon, you are now recognized for 5 
minutes.

  STATEMENT OF AMANDA K. ALLEXON, PARTNER, SIMPSON THACHER & 
                          BARLETT LLP

    Ms. Allexon. Chairman Barr, Ranking Member Foster, 
honorable members of the subcommittee, thank you for having me 
here today. I appreciate the appreciate the committee's 
leadership on this issue and giving me the opportunity to share 
my thoughts and perspectives as someone who has helped guide 
parties through the bank applications process----
    Chairman Barr. Could you pull your microphone----
    Ms. Allexon. Yes.
    Chairman Barr [continuing]. a little closer? Thank you.
    Ms. Allexon. Through the bank applications process for over 
20 years. I am a Partner at Simpson Thatcher, where I represent 
banks of all sizes on regulatory matters, including mergers and 
acquisitions. I am here today in my individual capacity, and my 
views do not necessarily represent those of my firm or my 
clients.
    My perspective on bank mergers in de novo formations is 
somewhat unique because of my background. In addition to my 
years in private practice, I began my career almost 25 years 
ago today working for Chairman Jim Leach in this very room. I 
also spent almost 10 years in the legal division of the Federal 
Reserve reviewing applications, including through the financial 
crisis. I have submitted a full statement for the record and 
want to focus these remarks on a couple key topics.
    First, the diversity of the business models that we have in 
our banking system is one of its great strengths. In 2025, 
customers have more choices than ever with respect to where and 
how they bank. Another feature of our banking system is that it 
is in constant transition. Keeping up with this changing 
environment and maintaining diversity within our market 
requires continuous streams of new market entrants, as well as 
the ability for parties to engage in business combinations that 
enhance their competitive impact. Although many straightforward 
merger transactions are processed in the normal course within a 
few months, too many transactions are languishing well beyond 
the normal processing periods. These delays expose both parties 
to escalating risk. As someone who has spent material times on 
both sides of applications processing, I can tell you that 
there are a few key reasons why applications are delayed. I 
would opine that most all of these can be readily addressed 
through thoughtful combination of action by the Federal banking 
agencies and targeted legislative actions.
    A number of otherwise straightforward transactions are held 
up by outmoded or misused agency procedures. This committee has 
already correctly identified that flexibility within these 
procedures renders the statutory and regulatory time periods 
practically moot. Without any sense of urgency, it is easy for 
the applications process to drag on or just to simply take a 
back seat to other, more pressing agency matters. Actions such 
as the proposed shot clock legislation, automatic agency 
escalation of applications when they have been pending for a 
certain period of time, similar to what the FDIC enacted last 
year, and perhaps set calendars for decisionmakers to act on 
applications, could make a material difference in processing 
times.
    Next, the agencies must find ways to ways to expedite the 
review of public comments. This is one of the biggest culprits 
for long processing periods. While it is important to consider 
timely and substantive comments, the receipt of a public 
comment should not add months to processing or immediately 
trigger heightened agency actions. Simply adjusting agency 
rules to allow staff to make decisions with respect to which 
comments can be handled in the normal course and which deserve 
more detailed consideration would dramatically reduce 
processing times.
    Third, the Federal banking agencies must work to right size 
information expectations. Applications have never been 
lengthier or more detailed. At some point, one has to ask, who 
is reviewing all of this information? Is this information nice 
to know or need to know, and against what functional measure is 
the information evaluated? Lastly, the agency leadership and 
application staff must take action to avoid duplicating the 
supervisory process. Routine supervisory matters, whether 
existing or new, should not be roadblocks to transactions 
unless those matters directly and materially implicate the 
proposal or management's ability to safely effectuate the 
transaction.
    The commonsense suggestions that I have discussed here and 
in my written testimony could help rationalize the applications 
process and support a more dynamic industry that can better 
serve the needs of all Americans. I appreciate this opportunity 
and look forward to any questions?

    [Prepared statement of Ms. Allexon follows:]
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    Chairman Barr. Thank you. Mr. Berlau, you are now 
recognized for 5 minutes.

STATEMENT OF JOHN BERLAU SENIOR FELLOW AND DIRECTOR OF FINANCE 
            POLICY, COMPETITIVE ENTEPRISE INSTITUTE

    Mr. Berlau. Chairman Barr, Ranking Member Foster, and 
honorable members of this subcommittee and this committee, 
thank you for this opportunity to present testimony on behalf 
of my organization, the Competitive Enterprise Institute. This 
is a hearing on the critically important topics of de novo 
banks and bank mergers that are both vital parts of reaching 
consumers and small businesses in our financial system.
    Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI) is a Washington-
based free market think tank, founded in 1984, that studies the 
effects of regulations on job growth and economic well-being. 
At CEI, we have long championed private sector innovation that 
serves all Americans and have warned about government red tape 
that contributes to the problems facing the Nation's unbanked 
and underbanked population in both rural and urban areas. We 
are concerned about the burdensome regulatory barriers that 
have been erected since the financial crisis of 2008 to the 
formation of new or de novo banks and more recent barriers 
erected, and now, thankfully, being knocked down, to bank 
mergers that would benefit consumers and entrepreneurs.
    Let me start with de novo banks. In every business sector, 
new entrants are essential to the functioning of a competitive 
free market economy. In this hearing, I look forward to 
learning from my fellow witnesses, who are recent founders of 
de novo banks, about their innovative financial products and 
services they are providing to their communities. Previously to 
this committee and in my writings, I have pointed to the 
example of the Bank of Bird-in-Hand in the heart of the Amish 
country of Pennsylvania as an example of new banks providing 
practical, if not what many would consider the most 
technologically sophisticated, innovations to serve their 
communities, including drive-thru lanes for horses and buggies 
that the Amish use. That bank grew from $17 million to more 
than $1 billion in less than 10 years in assets.
    While the Bank of Bird-in-Hand and the two banks of my 
fellow witnesses are certainly success stories to be 
celebrated, they are three of only a handful of new banks 
approved by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation since the 
2008 financial crisis. In 2023 and 2024, just six de novo banks 
were approved each year. In some of the years following the 
financial crisis, no new banks were approved. By contrast, in 
the 4 decades before the crisis, the FDIC approved more than 
100 new banks in most years. This was the case even in the late 
1980s and early 1990s, at the height of the savings and loan 
crisis.
    There may be multiple causes for the decline of new banks, 
including the increase in general regulatory compliant costs 
from the Dodd-Frank law. Still, we know from the testimony 
here, from de novo bank founders and an aspiring de novo bank 
founder, that the FDIC is imposing unreasonable burdens, both 
in the process and upfront capital of de novo applications. 
That is why legislative efforts such as Chairman Barr's 
Promoting New Bank Formation Act, which passed the committee 
recently with bipartisan support, are so needed. The Chairman's 
bill would move Federal banking agencies toward a system of 
phased-in capital that would allow de novo banks to build 
capital as they gain customers, rather than having to meet a 
nearly impossible burden for massive amounts of capital 
upfront.
    Both Congress and the regulatory agencies also need to 
remove unnecessary red tape that hampers beneficial mergers of 
existing banks. Changes in policies on mergers pushed through 
last year at the FDIC and Office of the Comptroller of the 
Currency, both of which thankfully have begun to be reversed, 
would have made mergers of banks much more difficult and time 
consuming. Mergers and acquisitions are most often a healthy 
part of capitalism's competitive process that brings innovation 
and dynamism to industries, and in the banking sector are 
necessary, according to former regulators such as Sheila Bair 
and Tom Hoenig, to help prevent failures and to allow regional 
banks to better compete against megabanks. Both mergers of 
existing businesses and the creation of new businesses are 
essential parts of a competitive market and a competitive 
financial system in which a variety of entrepreneurs create 
products and services for a variety of consumers, enabling a 
financial system and an economy that is resilient and 
beneficial to all Americans.
    Thank you again for inviting me to testify, and I look 
forward to your questions.

    [Prepared statement of Mr. Berlau follows:]
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    Chairman Barr. Thank you. Mrs. Young, you are now 
recognized.

       STATEMENT OF RESHONDA YOUNG, FOUNDER, JABEZ, INC.

    Mrs. Young. Chairman Barr, Ranking Member Foster, and 
distinguished members of the committee, thank you for allowing 
me allowing me the opportunity to speak with you today. Again, 
my name is ReShonda Young. I am the Founder of the proposed 
Bank of Jabez in Iowa, which would be a State-chartered de novo 
bank designed to address the systemic inequalities and 
discrimination that I have witnessed and personally experienced 
in banking over more than 20 years. I am a landlord, a real 
estate developer, and business consultant with the Small 
Business Development Center. Through those roles, I have seen 
firsthand how deeply unjust lending practices impact minority 
women and immigrant-owned business owners, not just 
financially, but emotionally and physically due to the amount 
of stress that these situations add to their lives.
    My personal experience that got me to the point of, really, 
praying for a solution to the banking problems that I was 
having involved a multi-billion-dollar local community bank 
that held all of my real estate assets. When I started working 
with the bank, a good friend of mine was the Vice President at 
the bank. He knew the problems that both my dad and I were 
having with obtaining access to capital to grow our businesses. 
He introduced me to the commercial loan officer at the bank, 
and we embarked on a great relationship for the next 6 years. I 
had been with the bank 7 years in 2019 when I called for a 
simple request. My friend and loan officer had both left the 
bank, and I was told by the new loan officer that they did not 
want me at their bank, and if I decided not to move my 
accounts, that they would foreclose on me and take everything I 
own. This new loan officer did not just threaten me. He also 
began filing legal documents to try and make good on his 
threat.
    For 16 months, the commercial loan officer and others at 
the bank, including the CEO, tried to illegally steal my 
properties that I had worked so hard for. It was only after 
involving the media and exposing documentation of the bank's 
misconduct that a settlement was reached. After enduring those 
16 months of intense and unnecessary stress, I prayed about 
what I needed to do to make sure that this does not happen to 
others. I heard very clearly that I needed to start a bank that 
treats all people with dignity and respect.
    I did not accept the task of starting a bank lightly. I 
immediately reached out to a banking professional, who became 
my cofounder. We downloaded the FDIC guide to starting a de 
novo bank, engaged banking consultants to help guide us through 
the process, and received a checklist involving 74 items that 
we needed to complete in order to actually charter a bank. That 
alone can be daunting. Pair that with average pre-opening 
expenses of $800,000 to $1.5 million and post-charter capital 
needs of at least $20 million, and most people would abort the 
mission.
    We initiated engagement with the FDIC in January 2021. Our 
overall experience has been favorable. They have been 
responsive to our questions and willing to meet with us to help 
keep us moving along with the process. We also began our 
engagement with the Iowa Division of Banking in 2021. We 
quickly learned that de novo banks are rare. Iowa's last in de 
novo bank charters were issued in 1997. No one who is currently 
at the Iowa Division of Banking has ever gone through the de 
novo charter issuance before. As kind as the Iowa regulators 
are, there are many things that they are learning right along 
with me and my team. That is a bit unsettling for us. Our 
banking attorney has been called on to give guidance to the 
Iowa banking attorneys.
    Another challenge is also opening as an Minority Depository 
Institution (MDI). MDIs are rare, representing roughly 3 
percent of banks in the United States. MDIs meet critical needs 
in low-and moderate-income communities, yet few regulators have 
deep experience with them and there are limited resources to 
support the process. We need greater technical assistance for 
both banks and regulators to make MDI formations a more viable 
process. Starting a de novo is very expensive, and it is an 
arduous process. The guidelines around how capital can be 
raised and who it can be raised from, generally accredited 
investors, poses a barrier to entry. These requirements need to 
be adjusted.
    Finally, I just want to address the ongoing need for strong 
banking regulations. Not all banks act ethically, and it is not 
just the big ones. Smaller community banks and credit unions 
also engage in discriminatory practices. That is why I joined 
the lawsuit against the CFPB to enforce Section 1071 and 
require data transparency on lending to women and minority-
owned businesses. Collecting and reporting this data may cost 
banks a little bit more, but it protects consumers from 
potentially devastating financial harm. Thank you.

    [Prepared statement of Mrs. Young follows:]
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    Chairman Barr. Chairman Barr. Thank you for your testimony, 
all, and we will now turn to member questioning. The chair now 
recognizes himself for 5 minutes.
    Let me start with Ms. Allexon and your important testimony 
that the receipt of a public comment should not add months to 
processing or immediately trigger heightened agency action. It 
is an important comment, I think, because we hear from banks a 
lot about pressure in connection with their merger applications 
to enter into pledges with community groups on meeting specific 
investment and lending goals. Some have even used the word, 
``extortion,'' in describing these tactics. They fear community 
groups will file negative comments on the merger, thereby 
slowing down or even jeopardizing the transaction.
    Ms. Allexon, do you agree that agencies should approve bank 
mergers promptly, solely based on whether an application is 
complete and meets the key statutory criteria? When you answer 
that question, keep in mind that one of the things that we hear 
a lot is that these negative comments filed by community groups 
after a merger is merely announced should not be a cause for a 
public hearing or be relevant to a regulator approving a deal, 
especially when they have already been rated as having an 
outstanding or satisfactory Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) 
rating?
    Ms. Allexon. Thank you for that question. Public comments 
are one of the main holdups in applications processing. I do 
not see these things as being mutually exclusive. I think the 
banking agencies can give due consideration to public comments 
and still process them in a timely manner. The statutes, each 
of the statutes--the Bank Merger Act, the Bank Holding Company 
Act, Change in Control--allow for public comments. That is 
built into the statute, but it is in the discretion of the 
agencies how they are considered and under what processes. I 
think, as I said in my testimony, there are some really, like, 
easy things that they can do to streamline that process and 
make sure that comments that are substantive and are relevant 
are given due consideration and that other ones can be 
expedited?
    Chairman Barr. Thank you. Yes, and again, I would view, and 
I would hope the agencies would view, with great skepticism 
comments from community groups that are pejorative about an 
institution that has an outstanding CRA rating. Mr. Berlau, I 
thought your testimony was very important when you said 
acquisitions by strong banks of weaker ones can prevent 
failures while protecting communities from the disruption of 
banking services that inevitably comes with liquidation of a 
failed bank. Frankly, that is exactly why I named my 
legislation the Bank Failure Prevention Act. Can you expand on 
why a shot clock and avoiding a long, drawn-out merger review 
process is important for financial stability and preventing 
failures?
    Mr. Berlau. Thank you for the question, Chairman Barr. I 
think the shot clock is important both with de novo banks and 
bank mergers. Obviously, just like a business, you do not want 
a government agency to take forever. Who knows what could 
happen with the financial stability in the community? The shot 
clock does not require a yes or a no, but it requires an 
explanation from the agency and, and say, in the case of a de 
novo or a merger application, of what they can do better. That 
provides more certainty to entrepreneurs and to communities.
    Chairman Barr. Thanks. To the extent we saw some 
instability in the sector after the Silicon Valley Bank, I 
think, if we want to protect the Deposit Insurance Fund, 
allowing for healthy mergers to happen and not let those 
applications languish is very, very important for safety and 
soundness of the system.
    Ms. Allexon, one more question. Last year, the Office of 
the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) finalized new policies 
that revised the criteria used to evaluate the bank merger 
applications, including eliminating the OCC's expedited review 
process and streamlined application procedures. Additionally, 
the Department of Justice under the Biden Administration 
announced that it was formally withdrawing from the 1995 joint 
Bank Merger Guidelines. Can you discuss how these moves 
discouraged healthy merger activity that would have promoted 
competition in the banking sector, and do you think that 
preventing the OCC from promulgating a similar rule in the 
future would best ensure that the merger review process will 
continue to allow healthy mergers?
    Ms. Allexon. Yes. As someone who works at an agency, it is 
very difficult drafting any sort of guidance or rulemaking. 
Every word means something, and so when you are putting 
together a proposal like that in the hopes of creating 
transparency or expediting the process, there can be unintended 
consequences. Those particular pieces of guidance created some 
presumptions that bank merger transactions were negative. Like, 
you are creating a presumption that you are starting out 
behind. Like, instead of starting in a neutral position, you 
are starting behind the eight-ball. So, every applicant has the 
obligation to satisfy the statutory factors, but it makes a big 
difference if you are starting behind or not.
    Chairman Barr. Thank you very much for your testimony. The 
gentleman from Illinois, the ranking member of the 
subcommittee, Dr. Foster, is now recognized.
    Mr. Foster. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mrs. Young, I would 
first like to thank you and the rest of our witnesses for being 
here and for sharing your stories. I found Mrs. Young's story 
particularly compelling. The obstacles that you faced during 
your time as a small business owner have clearly influenced 
your decision to enter the banking industry. You have 
experienced instances of blatant racism and discrimination that 
no business and no person should have to endure in any 
situation, let alone when trying to just finance your business. 
After those experiences, not only did you push the CFPB to 
implement Section 1071 of the Dodd-Frank Act to increase 
transparency for small business lending practices, you also 
went a step further and decided to start your own bank. Now, 
could you talk a little bit about how these experiences 
influenced your decision to form your own bank and how they 
influence the business plan for your bank?
    Mrs. Young. Yes. Thank you for your question. What I 
realized early on was that, because of the illegal things that 
were tried to be done to me or that were done to me, you cannot 
always legislate a person's heart, so, legislations may be put 
forth, and I think they are very necessary. You are still going 
to find people who are going to try and circumvent the system. 
We do not want to circumvent the system. We want to follow the 
system. We want to follow the rules. We want to make sure that 
every person, no matter what their race, creed, color, anything
    --it does not matter--we want to make sure that they are 
treated with dignity and respect. As much as, like I say, I 
believe that regulations are very necessary, there are people 
who will circumvent the system.
    With our business plan, we are highly focused on making 
sure that each person, individual business--it does not 
matter--that they are able to evolve their selves financially 
as a result of working with us. We do not want it to be just a 
numbers game. We want it to actually have impact for the people 
in the communities that we serve.
    Mr. Foster. Yes, thank you. I am a scientist, and it is 
really very difficult to fix a problem if you do not have the 
data to understand it. Do you believe the 1071 rule would help 
to prevent others from experiencing the same sort of 
discrimination that you faced?
    Mrs. Young. I do believe that the 1071 rule is very 
necessary in helping to prevent others from enduring what I 
did. So. having that enforcement, not just having it on the 
books, but having it enforced. It more than just puts a slap on 
somebody's wrist in terms of the bank. It really is going to 
make them do the things that they are supposed to do for fear 
that they are going to be fined or that they are going to have 
negative consequences.
    Mr. Foster. Yes. Yes. One of the things--it is tough to 
design a law that might prevent that--is in things like, I will 
say, realtors steering people on the basis of race. There are 
thousands, millions of realtor customers, so it is easy to set 
up a testing program to find out if out if there is a systemic 
problem here. The number of customers for even small banks and 
large banks is just not that large, so you do not have the 
statistics to set up that sort of system, so I do not think 
there is an alternative to do pretty broad-based information 
collection on the front end. It would be nice if someone came 
up with a better system, but I was very disappointed that 
President Trump and the Republicans have really worked as hard 
as they can to overturn that rule. It would be nice to live in 
a world where we did not need it, but I think we are going to 
need to get that information to know how to fix it.
    Let us see. Actually, this is to, I guess, all of our 
witnesses. Small community banks and new institutions face many 
challenges, especially when it comes to competing with the 
larger peers. One area that I believe is critical for small 
banks and credit unions to compete relates to technology. I 
think that a lot of what is driving the consolidation of 
banking is simply the difficulty of you do not have the scale 
to compete on the technological front with the bigger players. 
Consumers have come to expect things like mobile banking apps, 
online banking services, that can take significant resources to 
stand them up. If you have to do it yourself, it is typical to 
turn to third-party vendors, but the cost of setting up a new 
account with a third-party vendor, getting all the training for 
your employees, is not small.
    I had mentioned, when we were talking earlier, the 
possibility that there could be a useful way of sort of safely 
subsidizing your technology costs for de novo startups. I am 
nearly out of time, but I will be asking, for the record, if 
there is some sort of voucher program or something that we 
might come up with that would really take a big burden off of 
this and not be abusable, which is the danger with any subsidy?
    Chairman Barr. The gentleman's time has expired. The 
Chairman of the House Small Business Committee, the gentleman 
from Texas, Mr. Williams, is now recognized.
    Mr. Williams of Texas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. 
Costello, in your testimony, you mentioned significant hurdles 
that you faced when starting a bank. From capital challenges to 
navigating a consistently changing regulatory environment, 
starting a new bank has only become more and more difficult to 
do, so de novo banks play an important role in our financial 
system. They serve as lifelines for small businesses, provide 
relationship-based lending to rural areas, and ensure that 
local economies are not left behind. Yet without meaningful 
reform, we risk losing the community-driven lenders that many 
of my constituents, and myself included. In Texas, we rely on 
that. Mr. Costello, can you expand on the challenges you faced 
when starting the bank and how those barriers impacted your 
ability to raise capital and serve the needs of your local 
community?
    Mr. Costello. I started a bank in 2009 and then just 
started one recently in 2022. The difference when I started 
that first bank in 2009, I was required to raise $12.5 million 
of capital. This second bank in 2022, the capital requirement 
was double, in the same city, in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Just 
prior to my opening in 2022, there had been another gentleman 
who tried to start a bank in the community and could not get 
the capital to raise it and had to abandon the charter attempt.
    Mr. Williams of Texas. So, for many community and regional 
banks, mergers are a way to stay viable in a complex and costly 
regulatory environment. We saw a lot of that in this past 
administration. These banks often look to combine resources in 
order to invest in technology, expand product offerings, and 
better serve their customers. When done responsibly, bank 
mergers can enhance competition by allowing smaller 
institutions to grow and support more diverse and resilient 
banking ecosystems. As we have heard today, the current review 
process is slow, opaque, and unpredictable. Regulatory agencies 
have the ability to still stall mergers without issuing formal 
details, leaving the banks in limbo and discouraging future 
transactions. You have talked about that, and this uncertainty 
narrows strategic options for banks in all sizes and further 
contributes to market concentration.
    Ms. Allexon, could you elaborate on how a transparent and 
timely merger review process would enhance the competition in 
the banking industry?
    Ms. Allexon. There are a number of reasons why people want 
to engage in a merger or acquisition transaction, and you guys 
have mentioned a number of them. Economies of scale is 
important. Expanding products and service is important. 
Expanding your geographic footprint is important. So, having a 
timely process is important to those things because you enter 
into a purchase agreement, and you have staff. You have money 
that you are laying out, and the longer the process goes on, 
the more those banks become at risk, right? You lose employees, 
you lose money, and it creates uncertainty. Also, during that 
time period, it can create a situation where who knows what 
supervisory situation or economic changes might develop, and so 
a deal that made sense a year ago might not make sense today. 
So, having that process be timely so that they can execute 
their strategic vision and have more competitive impact in 
their market, I think, is critical to a healthy system.
    Mr. Williams of Texas. Good. Over the past several decades, 
the U.S. banking landscape has changed dramatically. In 1984, 
there were 14,000 banks, and today, that number has fallen 
below 4,000. Now, while some degree of consolidation is 
natural, the pace and scale of this decline raises serious 
concerns about the long-term health of our financial system. A 
lot of these have been community banks, right? People like me, 
we need that, and it hurts the ability to borrow, and 
particularly when it comes to access, competition, and choice 
in local communities. Now regional and community bank numbers 
are falling. At the same time, there is a lack of banks 
entering the market. Ms. Usategui, what do you see as the most 
significant factors contributing to long-term decline in the 
number of banks in the United States, which gives opportunity 
to a small business to grow and thrive?
    Ms. Usategui. I think, back before the financial crisis, 
there was probably the same amount of mergers and acquisitions 
occurring, but you had de novo banks replacing them. After the 
financial crisis, only 85 banks, since 2010, have been formed. 
The overabundance of capital requirements is significant, I 
think, at least in our story. We had to raise over $32 million 
to get our doors open, and I think that is the biggest 
challenge today. Having that ramp-up period of allowing 
potentially 6 percent to start and get to 8 percent by the end 
of the 3-year period is a lot more achievable to many to be 
able to achieve more de novo bank formation.
    Mr. Williams of Texas. Thank you. I yield back, but I also 
want to thank all of you for lending to Main Street America, 
the greatest system we have. Thank you very much, and I yield 
my time back.
    Chairman Barr. The gentleman yields.
    The gentlewoman from California, Ms. Waters, is now 
recognized.
    Ms. Waters. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mrs. Young, 
it is good to see you again. I remember when we last spoke, and 
I have a great appreciation that you have taken time out one 
more time to travel to Washington, DC. to share your story with 
our committee.
    Too many entrepreneurs face discrimination when they seek 
to get a loan from a bank, which is unlawful and not right. I 
appreciate that you responded by filing a lawsuit with the 
Consumer Financial Protection Bureau to compel them to finish 
their work on Section 1071 of Dodd-Frank. A provision that Ms. 
Velazquez and I fought to include so that small-business 
lending has the same transparency, fairness, and competition as 
mortgage lending. When you kept pressing forward to launch your 
own bank so that you could provide a fair service for your 
neighbors that you yourself and your neighbors did not get.
    Now, I want to ask a question, or some questions, about 
your bank application process, as I would like to introduce 
what I believe should be a bipartisan legislation to address 
your challenges. Mrs. Young, in your testimony, you referenced 
that the FDIC new bank or de novo bank list involves 74 items. 
While I imagine there were good intentions along the way to add 
more items, it seems like no one has one has taken a fresh look 
at that checklist to know what is helpful or necessary to 
approve in a bank. Would it be helpful if Congress required our 
banking agencies to review and streamline some of those 
requirements?
    Mrs. Young. It would be very helpful if they had to review 
and streamline those requirements.
    Ms. Waters. Thank you. I think we got this from you. Okay. 
I want to thank you, Mrs. Young. You also raised concerns about 
communication and lack of expertise with the de novo process 
since none of the staff was around when the last new bank was 
chartered in 1997. Would it be helpful if Congress required 
Federal agencies to set up a de novo advisory panel where 
applicants and new approved banks can regularly meet with 
Federal and State banking regulators to give them feedback on 
ways to improve the application process?
    Mrs. Young. That would also be very helpful, yes.
    Ms. Waters. Thank you very much. Okay. You mentioned 
challenges you faced as a new minority depository institution 
and eligibility criteria you must meet. Would it be helpful if 
Congress required the creation of a de novo mentor protege 
program where any de novo applicant could be paired with a 
similarly situated bank that recently went through the de novo 
process and could share advice, even if they were in a 
different State?
    Mrs. Young. That would also be very helpful.
    Ms. Waters. Thank you again for sharing your story. There 
are other concerns you have raised. Now, I plan to address all 
of what you have advised us in legislation, and I hope that 
Republicans will work with Democrats to support the creation of 
a variety of new depository institutions in a safe and sound 
way, including rural banks, MDIs, credit unions, and community 
development financial institutions all across the country. 
Thank you so very much.
    I want to say something to Mr. Berlau. It is good to see 
you once again. You testified before our committee in 2021 and 
endorsed my bill that was expanding financial access for 
``underserved communities,'' which allows credit unions to 
expand their field of membership to banking deserts where banks 
have closed branches. Do you still support my bill, and do you 
think this committee should mark it up?
    Mr. Berlau. I do indeed. We need all types of financial 
institutions--banks, credit unions--all of the above, so yes, 
very, very much. The bill is still needed for a variety of 
choices for consumers and competition.
    Ms. Waters. I want you to know, between you and Mrs. 
Young's presence here today, I am beginning to like this 
committee a little better. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Berlau. Thank you.
    Ms. Waters. I yield back.
    Chairman Barr. The gentlelady yields back. The gentleman 
from Georgia, Mr. Loudermilk, is now recognized.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for 
attending today. Very important subject, especially in my home 
State of Georgia, which has suffered greatly since the 2008 
financial crisis with very, very few new banks coming in, 
leaving a lot of the areas of our State underbanked or some 
without even a local small bank branch in the area.
    First, let me start off asking a question about the Office 
of Comptroller of the Currency. Under Acting Director Rodney 
Hood, he recently reversed a Uniformed Services Employment and 
Reemployment Rights Act (USERRA) policy that delayed the 
approval of bank merger applications. While the rule was only 
in effect for a few months, we heard a great deal of concern 
from the banking industry. Mr. Berlau, what were tangible 
effects of the OCC's 2024 final rule on bank mergers, and why 
is it so important that banks have clarity on merger policies 
and processes?
    Mr. Berlau. It was a chilling effect--that banks had an 
uncertainty about whether--it shifted the burden to banks, 
including small community banks, as far as that they would have 
to justify the merger to the OCC rather than the previous 
policy of letting this merger go through unless the OCC found 
significant problems, and it is good now that it has been 
rescinded after the Senate passed the CRA resolution. As 
Chairman Barr said, you need to prevent a future OCC from 
having that comeback, so it is vital that the House finish the 
work and pass that CRA resolution to stop the rule.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Thank you. Ms. Allexon, do you concur or do 
you have anything you would like to add to that?
    Ms. Allexon. Yes. I agree that it created a chilling 
effect, but I also want to add that we do have to be careful 
with these wild swings in policy.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Right.
    Ms. Allexon. Certainty in policy is really important in 
banking. It is true on applications processing. It is true in 
supervision. I think everybody agrees that they want banks to 
operate in a safe and sound way and they want mergers to be 
reviewed in a thoughtful manner, but we just cannot keep 
swinging one way or the other. Like, we need to stay in the 
middle of the road.
    Mr. Loudermilk. That is what I am hearing, even from other 
businesses, that say if you are going to regulate me, just let 
me know how are you going to regulate me and stick with it. Mr. 
Costello, on the de novo formation side, we have all heard how 
difficult it is to form a new bank in 2025. This has real 
impact on access to affordable credit. In Georgia, nationwide 
consumers are turning to less tangible forms of credit for 
their business needs, even if they might qualify for credit at 
a community bank. Is this something that you have seen in your 
own communities?
    Mr. Costello. Yes, we have seen that and, I think, due 
primarily to the fact that there just are not as many community 
banks in our community.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Right.
    Mr. Costello. We have seen these lightly regulated, let us 
say, not regulated like we are, become more prevalent, and I 
think the businesses that utilize them find the costs are 
higher.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Right.
    Mr. Costello. You do not have that relationship that you 
have at a community bank. I think most would prefer in the 
businesses that I talk to, when they find out that we have a 
community bank in Fort Lauderdale, are happy to deal with us.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Do you see that not having these community 
banks, the lack of de novo banks, impacts consumers in the 
small-dollar-loan arena?
    Mr. Costello. Absolutely, yes. Those same people, local 
citizens, they would come together, and actually, many times, a 
lot of those people would form banks previously, right, or a 
family would start a bank----
    Mr. Loudermilk. Right. Right.
    Mr. Costello [continuing]. when the capital requirements 
were not so high. I think the thing that I like the most about 
H.R. 478 is the requirement to study it, because I think all of 
the procedures are so outdated and really need to be addressed 
and brought current.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Since we are talking about especially rural 
areas, especially in Georgia, the agricultural areas are way 
underbanked, and some of the counties, it may be one bank 
branch in the whole county. How important are fintech 
partnerships in terms of competitiveness for small banks?
    Mr. Costello. They are very important, and we still have to 
compete with the largest banks no matter where you are located. 
In order to do that, that is a requirement, really. You have to 
create these fintech partnerships in order to have a viable 
technology base, which more and more people, especially younger 
people, really, that is their main way that they access 
financial services.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Okay. Thank you. I yield back.
    Chairman Barr. The gentleman yields. The gentlewoman from 
New York, Ms. Velazquez, is now recognized.
    Ms. Velazquez. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member, 
and I want to thank all the witnesses for being here today. 
Mrs. Young, as you know, Ranking Member Maxine Waters and I 
were the authors of Section 1071, and I want to thank you for 
sharing your story. Mrs. Young, some of the arguments we have 
heard against Section 1071 were the same arguments that were 
made when the Home Mortgage Disclosure Act (HMDA) was 
implemented. Is that not correct?
    Mrs. Young. That is correct.
    Ms. Velazquez. Now, banks implement HMDA every day, 
correct?
    Mrs. Young. Correct?
    Ms. Velazquez. Mrs. Young, could you explain now--Section 
1071--how could it actually increase lending in underserved 
markets?
    Mrs. Young. Absolutely. One of the jobs that I have is as a 
Small Business Development Center (SBDC) Consultant for small 
business owners. I work with a high number of immigrant 
business owners, and what I am finding is they will be very 
qualified. I help them with their plans, with their financials, 
and a lot of times, it may be language barriers or just a bias 
with the lending officer. I will get phone calls from the 
office when they are with the lender, and the lender will say, 
well, I cannot understand them, and so then I will start to 
help translate, and then I will get a phone call from the 
lender denying them. There has not been one case where the 
applicant has gotten a phone call, a letter, or anything 
letting them know that they have been denied and by not even 
having to prove you are meeting with these people--you are not 
even proving that you are meeting with them. You are sending 
them nothing to say that they have been denied. Section 1071 
and enforcing that would help a whole lot because----
    Ms. Velasquez. Thank you for that----
    Mrs. Young [continuing]. access to capital.
    Ms. Velasquez [continuing]. for that answer. Now, you are 
on the other side. You own a bank. Do you think the Section 
1071 disclosure requirements are difficult to comply with?
    Mrs. Young. We are still in the process of chartering the 
bank. However, as we talk with compliance officers and other 
bank mentors that I have now, it is something that is 
difficult, but it is necessary. Even though it is difficult, my 
team and I do not mind, having to comply.
    Ms. Velasquez. Thank you. Mrs. Young, while President Trump 
campaigned on lower prices, he has advanced massive tariffs, 
not only on China, but practically every country on earth. 
Despite what some may try to argue, these tariffs are paid by 
U.S. consumers and businesses. In 2018, as a small business 
owner, you raised concerns with the relatively smaller tariffs 
that Trump imposed back then. Do you have any concerns about 
these much larger tariffs being imposed on other countries and 
what it means for small businesses and farmers across the 
country?
    Mrs. Young. Absolutely. I do have concerns with that.
    Ms. Velasquez. Last week, the Trump Administration 
announced a trade deal with the U.K. with little detail and a 
90-day pause on tariffs with China. They have also imposed and 
lifted or created exemptions to tariffs with Canada and Mexico 
multiple times. You have been a small business owner. Would not 
you agree that small businesses need certainty, and the 
erratic, on-again-off-again tariff policy from the Trump 
Administration is making it difficult for small businesses to 
negotiate with suppliers, set costs and production targets, and 
forecast for the future?
    Mrs. Young. Yes, that is something that I am experiencing 
with the business owners that I work with.
    Ms. Velasquez. Thank you.
    Mrs. Young. You are welcome.
    Ms. Velasquez. I yield back.
    Chairman Barr. The gentleman from Tennessee, Mr. Rose, is 
now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Rose. Thank you, and I want to thank Chairman Barr and 
Ranking Member Foster for holding this important hearing, and 
thank you to our to our witnesses for taking time to be with us 
today.
    I shifted gears a little from what I had planned to do 
because of a call I got from a constituent this morning, and so 
I am going to launch in. I am concerned that ongoing financial 
institution mergers and consolidation are having an adverse 
impact regarding access to cash, which, despite the rise in 
digital payments, remains a vital component and driver of our 
consumer-spending-based national economy. This concern is 
especially acute in the face of the persistent and widespread 
wrongful denial of banking services for our Nation's 
independent ATM operators. These mostly small-to medium-sized 
businesses are a prime example of America's hardworking 
entrepreneurs, who now account for the majority of ATMs 
deployed throughout the country, often the only ones serving 
smaller rural communities most dependent upon cash access. 
Unfortunately, my understanding is that virtually all the 
largest national banks and most of the regional and community 
banks and credit unions across the country continue to 
categorically deny ATM businesses access to essential banking 
services based upon the wholly inaccurate misimpression and 
historic regulatory misguided direction that these entities 
present an elevated risk of money laundering or other illicit 
activities.
    I know firsthand from the intensive work done on this 
subject previously with the financial regulators and my former 
colleagues, Blaine Luetkemeyer and Carolyn Maloney, that there 
is zero evidence of any illicit activities by this industry 
sector that would justify the wholesale categorical denial of 
banking services to which they continue to be subject. Just 
today, as I foreshadowed earlier, I learned that ServisFirst 
Bank in Nashville is closing one of my constituent's--Powell 
Group USA, LLC's--accounts after almost a decade simply because 
they that constituent an ATM operator. Beyond competition, 
Federal banking agencies are also required to evaluate other 
statutory factors under the Bank Merger Act, such as 
convenience and needs. It is my strong belief that Federal 
banking agencies, when reviewing a bank merger, should review 
whether banks provide services to independent ATM operators. It 
is also imperative that when Federal banking agencies are 
examining a merger for anti-money-laundering compliance, that 
no bank suffers adverse consequences simply for serving 
independent ATM operators.
    Mr. Costello, you have worked at a number of banks 
throughout your career. Did any of the financial institutions 
you worked at provide banking services to independent ATM 
operators?
    Mr. Costello. My experience has been that we view every 
business as a business. As long as it is a legal business, we 
are happy to talk to them about banking them.
    Mr. Rose. That is good to hear. Mr. Costello, thinking 
about the financial institutions you have worked at, was the 
decision whether to provide banking services--I think you have 
answered this--to independent ATM operators based upon 
individual account-by-account analysis, as required by 
regulations, and did you ever get pressure from Federal 
regulators to unbank a customer simply because they might be 
involved in a business like that?
    Mr. Costello. No, I never was pressured by a regulator.
    Mr. Rose. Unfortunately, in a prior Congress, Mr. 
Luetkemeyer and Mrs. Maloney, and I learned that the regulators 
were, in fact, applying that pressure systematically, in fact, 
had it in the examiners guide that these categories of 
customers were considered to be higher risks. I hope that we 
are not seeing a continuation of that with the current 
activities of the regulators.
    Ms. Allexon, as someone with experience with complex 
mergers and acquisitions, do you believe that it is appropriate 
for Federal banking agencies to examine whether banks provide 
services to independent ATMs as a part of the Bank Merger Act 
review process?
    Ms. Allexon. The convenience and needs of the community is 
already a statutory factor that they can take into 
consideration a wide variety of topics. I have not specifically 
seen that specific thing be considered in connection with an 
application, but it is something that they can do if that is a 
material issue in connection with that particular transaction 
or particular issue in that market.
    Mr. Rose. Have you ever seen other maybe categorical issues 
like this, where the bank regulators have maybe not served 
community needs and interest with respect to the way in which 
they review bank mergers?
    Chairman Barr. The gentleman's time has expired. Could you 
respond for the record?
    Mr. Rose. Thank you. I yield back.
    Chairman Barr. The gentleman from California, Mr. Vargas, 
is now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Vargas. I thank the chairman very much, and I very much 
thank the witnesses for being here. Thank you very much.
    I read that the hearing today is called, ``Enhancing 
Competition: Shaping the Future of Bank Mergers and De Novo 
Formation.'' One of the things we seldom talk about are credit 
unions. Credit unions are interesting because they seem to 
serve the community. They seem to be in areas that are banking 
deserts. Anyway, I throw that out there because when we talk 
about the formation of banks, it is very important. I agree we 
need more of that. At the same time, it seems like there is 
this whole segment of financial institutions that we do not 
talk about. I know the conflict between the banks and the 
credit unions. Nobody likes each other, but the truth is that 
they are there, and I think they are very important. Second, I 
do want to talk about a little bit of the dissonance that I 
hear here. When the hearing started, I wrote down some of the 
comments that the chairman made saying that mergers were good, 
very good, and reasons why he believed that they were good, and 
gave some, I think, some important reasons. Then I heard most 
of the testimony here, and the testimony was not about bank 
mergers or acquisitions. It really was the value of small 
banks, small community lending, being close to the community, 
which seems different than having a bank become bigger and 
bigger and bigger until it gets ultimately bought by the 
biggest banks. Is there not some dissonance here?
    Mr. Costello, I read your background. You successfully 
created or founded two banks, my understanding, both as CEO. 
You were able to exit those banks, I assume, by acquisition or 
by merger, I am not sure. Then you did talk about, at some 
point, there was a noncompete clause, so it gave you more 
emphasis to work on this banking situation. So, why do you not 
comment on that because, again, there seems to be some 
disconnect here.
    Mr. Costello. Sure, I would be happy to. I guess in my 
comments also, I talked about the value of the free enterprise 
system, so the value to create a business, start a business, be 
able to lend money in a local community, but also grow that 
business and then eventually maybe sell that business and make 
money for your investors and for your people that work at the 
bank. I did it twice, so then I went out and I started another 
de novo. I think that dynamic process needs to occur to keep 
the system----
    Mr. Vargas. I understand that, but if you take it to its 
logical conclusion, I mean, you start one bank, it is 
successful, you start a second one, successful. You are on your 
third one, and I hope it is successful for you and for the 
people you represent. Would it not then be more efficient just 
to allow the big, giant bank to bank all these groups, Just 
allow them to swallow up all the small banks, the community 
banks? Would there not be efficiency there? They talk about 
technology. I do not think so, personally. I think everyone has 
a place, but it seems like the logical conclusion. If you 
believe in this sort of unbridled capitalism that you just 
talked about, we will just keep growing it and selling it to 
the bigger guy until the biggest guy owns everything.
    Mr. Costello. That is not what I advocate at all. That is 
not what not what I said at all. What I am talking about is----
    Mr. Vargas. No, but I mean, that is the logical conclusion 
of growing a business and selling it----
    Mr. Costello. You may think that is a logical conclusion. I 
would----
    Mr. Vargas. I do. I do, if you keep being effective and 
efficient. I am a car guy. I can tell you, way back when, in 
the 1910s or so, you had a whole bunch of different car makers. 
You had, like, 20 of them in the United States. Now we are down 
to about four. Why? Because the big ones bought everything up. 
As they got bigger and bigger, they got more effective and 
efficient at building cars. So, the Packards are gone. You do 
not have Duesenbergs. You do not have Cords. You do not have a 
whole bunch of cars that used to exist. There is no Franklin, 
no Morgan, no Stanley Steamer. None of these cars exist anymore 
because the natural conclusion was that they kept growing 
bigger and bigger and bigger. Now you have Tesla competing, but 
again, it took so many decades.
    I am going to go to somebody else now because I do want to 
talk about CDFIs. CDFIs are proposed to take a big hit. Now, 
Mrs. Young, could you comment on that because I think that is 
problematic.
    Mrs. Young. Yes, definitely. The CDFIs play a critical 
role, especially when it comes to microlending. With the cuts 
that are being proposed for CDFIs, it will put additional needs 
on banks and credit unions to serve populations that CDFIs----
    Mr. Vargas. My time is up. I just wanted to say again, I 
believe in small banks, I believe in community banks, I believe 
in credit unions, but there is some dissonance in some of the 
comments that were made here, in my opinion. Thank you.
    Chairman Barr. The gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr. Meuser, 
is now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Meuser. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you to all of you 
very much.
    Thanks to some very strong appointments to the Federal 
Reserve System (Fed), OCC, the FDIC, we finally have an 
opportunity to reshape banking regulations that promote 
competition, reduce costs, and expand access to access to 
capital. Drawn-out bank merger reviews by regulators and the 
lack of de novo charters have stifled entry, shrinking new bank 
formations from 132 per year from 2000 to 2009 to fewer than 
six per year since 2010. Today, we can build on the Trump 
Administration's push for better and more competitive banking. 
This starts by creating hard deadlines and application reviews, 
the return of expedited approval pathways, clear rules, and 
incentives for new mutual banks, and checking your ideology at 
the door. Ms. Usategui, there has been only one mutual bank 
formed in the last 50 years. Can you explain why de novo mutual 
banks are so rare and how can we fix this problem?
    Ms. Usategui. Thank you for the question. I am not quite 
sure why those folks would choose not to go that path. I know 
there was a huge crisis in the 1980s, and so many folks now, I 
think, want to be part of either a State-regulated bank or the 
OCC just based on familiarity. I mean, that is the banks that 
most of us have been a part of. Going through this process, it 
is tedious enough that you want to make sure that you are 
aligning yourselves with regulators that understand your 
business plan and will be supportive of the application 
process. It took us over 19 months from the time that we had 
decided to start BankMiami to opening, and so being very 
closely aligned with regulators that have that same opinion and 
understanding of the process to make it all the faster is quite 
significant and important?
    Mr. Meuser. All right. Thank you. Ms. Allexon, why are 
other models for bank formation preferred under current rules, 
and what tools should Congress give mutuals if we would like 
them to be formed successfully?
    Ms. Allexon. Just to clarify, you are talking about a 
mutual charter?
    Mr. Meuser. Yes.
    Ms. Allexon. Okay. That is a specialty type of charter that 
is very common in the Massachusetts area. Those are charters 
that are owned by, like, individuals.
    Mr. Meuser. Right.
    Ms. Allexon. It is different than a normal commercial bank 
charter.
    Mr. Meuser. Yes.
    Ms. Allexon. They are difficult to organize because of the 
disclosure obligations and the reporting that comes along with 
that, so it is a little bit clunky. Those rules have not been 
updated in a very long time. They used to be supervised by the 
Office of Thrift Supervision, which obviously was eliminated 
during Dodd-Frank. They have been decreasing in size over time, 
so I think that they are just not a priority for either the OCC 
or the Federal Reserve?
    Mr. Meuser. All right. Thank you. Mr. Costello, how and why 
do regulators stall merger applications indefinitely without 
issuing formal denials?
    Mr. Costello. That can be very problematic for any bank. 
Obviously, when you are operating in that period of time 
between the approval and when everybody knows that there is a 
merger occurring, that there is talks occurring, it is very 
hard to operate your business in that environment when there is 
that much uncertainty, hold on to your employees, rumors, all 
these things. It is really a difficult situation for any bank 
to go through.
    Mr. Meuser. So, why do they do it, just for the purpose of 
keeping it from happening?
    Mr. Costello. I cannot tell you. I have no idea.
    Mr. Meuser. Okay. Hopefully, we can change that. Can you 
describe the single biggest cost a bank faces--I guess it is 
obvious--when a regulator lets a merger sit in limbo for 90 
days?
    Mr. Costello. Yes, it is definitely going to impact the 
situation, and I think anything----
    Mr. Meuser. General activity, yes.
    Mr. Costello. Yes.
    Mr. Meuser. Everything in general.
    Mr. Costello. I think the hardest thing is being able to 
hang on to your employees during a period like that----
    Mr. Meuser. Yes.
    Mr. Costello [continuing]. and customers.
    Mr. Meuser. Yes. Okay. That certainly makes sense for all 
businesses. Mr. Berlau, can you describe the describe the Trump 
Administration's/OCC's 15-day deemed-approved pathway?
    Mr. Berlau. This is involving mergers and acquisitions. To 
tell you the truth, I am not that familiar with it, but I like 
the fact that Chairman Hood rescinded the policy of the Biden 
Administration against mergers, and I am interested in learning 
more about that. I think, generally, it is good to relax the 
red tape around mergers and acquisitions so that you can have 
regional banks be able to compete with megabanks, and for 
safety and soundness reasons, as I said.
    Mr. Meuser. Yes. The Biden Administration removed the 
pathway, but we will move on, which kept mergers from taking 
place. Mr. Chairman, my time has expired. I yield back.
    Chairman Barr. The gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Casten, is 
now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Casten. Thank you, and I appreciate the chairman 
calling this hearing. I think this is the second one. I forget 
if it was this term or last, but the last time we had a hearing 
on this topic was with regulators, so I appreciate having 
practitioners on the other side of this.
    When we had the regulators here before, one of the pieces 
that struck me as interesting was this tension between bank 
stability and antitrust enforcement, and I guess I would love 
to start with you, Ms. Allexon. When you were at the Federal 
Reserve, when you were reviewing a bank merger, was there a 
standard protocol? You have the bank stability jurisdiction. 
The Department of Justice (DOJ) has the antitrust. Was there a 
standard protocol that you guys worked together? Was it 
situation-specific? Without getting into the details, like, how 
do the two separate regulators balance that tension?
    Ms. Allexon. On the competition factor?
    Mr. Casten. Yes.
    Ms. Allexon. Yes. Under Federal law, there is dual 
jurisdiction over the competition factor on bank merger 
transactions, so the Federal Reserve or the other primary 
regulator that is handling the bank-level merger transaction 
reviews the competitive implications of it, and the Department 
of Justice reviews it separately. They have slightly different 
approaches to it, but in the end, they usually come out close 
enough together.
    Mr. Casten. I have two questions that I struggle with, and 
maybe Mr. Costello is the best for this, but if you have one, 
chime in, as well. Let us imagine that you have a town with two 
regional banks in it, two small local banks. They want to merge 
together, right?
    Ms. Allexon. Yes.
    Mr. Casten. Locally, that is an antitrust concern.
    Ms. Allexon. Yes.
    Mr. Casten. On the other hand, if that growing bank needs 
capital and says, well, if I merge with a bigger out-of-town 
bank, it is not an antitrust issue, but now, I have one fewer 
community bank, right?
    Ms. Allexon. Yes.
    Mr. Casten. Mr. Costello, I am not asking you asking you 
to, like, divulge your long-term plans, but if you were to 
grow, would you not have a bias to look for an out-of-town 
buyer?
    Mr. Costello. I do not think so, necessarily. Fort 
Lauderdale, Florida, in Broward County----
    Mr. Casten. Okay. Maybe you are in a big enough community--
--
    Mr. Costello. Yes, it is a pretty urban----
    Mr. Casten. I guess then, Ms. Allexon, like, how do the 
regulators think about that tradeoff, because is that not going 
to hurt----
    Ms. Allexon. Yes. Yes, so----
    Mr. Casten [continuing]. like, the smaller communities and, 
therefore, the small community banks?
    Ms. Allexon. It is. This is actually an issue that was 
debated in the original Bank Merger Act in 1960, so this issue 
was isolated a long time ago. Right now, the way that they are 
reviewed for competitive purposes is through their local 
market, so if there is a concentration there, it triggers a 
heightened scrutiny.
    Mr. Casten. That is going to bias in favor of the out-of-
town bank?
    Ms. Allexon. Yes, yes. There is a bias against an out-of-
town buyer, but it does not rule it out completely if there are 
reasons for it. If that smaller institution is having some 
trouble, or if there is, like, some really legitimate reasons 
for it, they can overcome that.
    Mr. Casten. No, and I do not mean to be so short, but I am 
watching this clock.
    Ms. Allexon. Yes.
    Mr. Casten. Let me get to the bigger one. Whether it was JP 
Morgan buying First Republic, USB buying Credit Suisse, when a 
bank is about to fail and there is a bank run, we seem to 
ignore all antitrust concerns because we need to get this 
quickly into a bank that has the capitalization, has the 
sophistication to move quickly, and I am not saying that is 
wrong, right? I mean, goodness knows that all of us who have 
been through a banking crisis have appreciated that. Has there 
ever been a time in history when we have said we need the 
global systemically important bank (GSIB) to buy this, but then 
we need to have some kind of a disgorgement process on the back 
end so as not to concentrate?
    Ms. Allexon. So, divestitures are a remedy that are often 
used in bank merger transactions.
    Mr. Casten. As stapled to the deal, right?
    Ms. Allexon. Yes.
    Mr. Casten. If we are sitting there saying, we need you to 
do this right now----
    Ms. Allexon. Yes.
    Mr. Casten. Lehman Brothers is failing, we need you to take 
over Lehman Brothers, but we need you to disgorge yourselves of 
those assets and get down to the asset level----
    Ms. Allexon. Right then? Off the top of my head, I cannot 
think of that situation, but in just regular merger-and-
acquisition transactions, divestitures are a solution that are 
frequently used when there is concentrations and you are trying 
to preserve local----
    Mr. Casten. Then you have to have, like, after the fact, 
right?
    Ms. Allexon. You have to have a signed purchase agreement 
before the agencies will act on it.
    Mr. Casten. Okay. I would welcome, and we are tight on 
time, you or either Mr. Berlau because it feels to me to be 
inherently anticompetitive if we are providing essentially a 
one-way arbitrage risk that the big banks are the only ones who 
can buy in a merger. Like, if we could have some protocol to 
say that when we do that, as necessary, it would be good to 
have some kind of a mandate.
    The last thing, and I was going to ask you, Mr. Berlau, but 
maybe I will just make the statement for the record and you can 
write in if you feel differently. Having spent a long time in 
the electric industry, I would be very cautious around some of 
these shot-clock rules. We have had a lot of public utility 
commissions that have been mandated that they have to approve 
rates within a finite period, and what it ends up doing is 
giving a huge advantage to the person who can file the most 
complicated, hard-to-digest hearing, which gives a big 
incumbency advantage and hurts smaller players, unless we 
staple that to significantly expanded funding for the 
regulators to do the enforcement.
    Chairman Barr. The gentleman's time has expired. You can 
respond for the record. For the written record, yes. Time has 
expired.
    Chairman Barr. The gentlewoman from California, Mrs. Kim, 
is now recognized----
    Mr. Casten. Welcome your thoughts in writing.
    Chairman Barr [continuing]. for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you, Chairman and Ranking Member, for 
hosting this hearing, and I want to thank all the witnesses for 
joining us today.
    As I have said before, I am gravely concerned with the 
decline of community banks across our country and specifically 
in California. Over the last few hearings on this topic, we 
have learned that a reduction in banking services can result in 
decline in small business lending and increased costs that are 
forced upon the consumers. Unfortunately, the current banking 
regulatory climate has disincentivized mergers that would 
preserve banking services and the formation of new banks. Mr. 
Costello, I know that you have founded not one, but two banks 
over the last 20 years, so I want to ask you, what were the 
biggest differences in the regulatory regime that you 
experienced when you founded your bank, Locality Bank, in 2022?
    Mr. Costello. First, let me say, instead of going the de 
novo route in 2022, we were trying to buy a bank because it 
would have been easier to go out and buy a bank than go through 
that whole process, but we could not, and so we decided to do 
the de novo route. The biggest issue for me was the capital 
requirement was double what it was just a few years earlier, 13 
years earlier. I would also say it was interesting because the 
bank in 2009, the de novo period became 7 years at that time, 
after the great financial crisis, and then fortunately, it was 
reduced back to 3 years, which is what we just went through, 
but I also questioned, who determines that 3 years? Who 
determines 7 years?
    Mrs. Kim. Uh-huh.
    Mr. Costello. Where do they come up with these de novo 
periods? I think that is a thing that should be looked at, as 
well, along with capital.
    Mrs. Kim. Yes, let me focus on that, the business plan that 
you are required to submit for a new bank formation. I 
understand that these plans are expected to endure from 
submission to 3 years of operation. Mr. Castello, through your 
experience, how often does there arise a time when a leadership 
team may need to refine a business plan?
    Mr. Costello. I think we all know in business that nothing 
is static. Things are constantly changing. During the time 
since we operated, we went through the Silicon Valley Bank 
(SVB) failure and the deposit crisis. I think you are 
constantly having to, in any business, update your business 
plan, so I think the faster we can have regulators react to 
those changes would be a lot easier for us.
    Mrs. Kim. How do regulators react when you inform them that 
you need to make a change?
    Mr. Costello. I think it depends on the change, obviously. 
We did not have any real structural changes. We did not enter 
any new businesses.
    Mrs. Kim. Uh-huh.
    Mr. Costello. Most of our changes revolved around modifying 
our budget, and I would say that, other than for the length of 
time it took, they were responsive.
    Mrs. Kim. Ms. Usategui, are you hesitant to change your 
business plan at BankMiami because of the concerns that we are 
discussing?
    Ms. Usategui. We are only 2 months old, so I have not had 
to have been presented with that problem just yet, but as Keith 
mentioned, markets change, and not to say I am hesitant. I have 
a great relationship with the regulators, but how quickly they 
respond is a concern because sometimes, on a whim, we will get 
presented with a new opportunity that we want to have an answer 
to be able to act quicker, that may actually help strengthen 
the community bank. Without having a clear timeline on 
response, and, honestly, having to recreate a whole new 
business plan in some cases, depending on how big of a change 
it is, it could be, I do not want to say detrimental to the 
bank, but it could significantly impact the potential of new 
earnings and gathering more capital through that process.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you. As someone who founded and operated my 
own small business, changing my business plan was not a sign of 
increased risk, but a testimony to my adaptability and desire 
to succeed. It is disappointing to hear that some of the 
regulators may not see it the same way.
    Now, I want to shift gear and highlight the importance of 
diversity in banking business models for consumers. Mrs. 
Allexon--sorry--when a consumer has access to large, midsize, 
and community banks and credit unions, how do these options 
benefit a consumer?
    Ms. Allexon. It is just variety of choices. Each of those 
institutions offers different sets of products and services. 
Some are competitive with each other, but you can just pick and 
choose for yourself. It is not one-stop shopping, but you can 
choose between different parties for different financial needs. 
Also, I think we have to consider other nonbanking fintech 
providers or just nonbanking providers, too. All of these 
provide different financial services options that people can 
pick and choose for all of their different needs.
    Chairman Barr. The gentlewoman's time has expired.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you.
    Chairman Barr. The gentleman from Texas, Mr. Green, is now 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Green. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the witnesses 
for appearing, and having been a litigator for some point in my 
life, we engaged in a process known as voir dire, or voir dire, 
depending on where you are from. I am told it is a French term 
that means to speak the truth. Hence, this will become a truth-
telling moment for you, members of the panel. If you believe 
that invidious discrimination in banking exists--meaning that 
some people get discriminated against simply because of the way 
they look, color of skin--if you believe that it exists, kindly 
extend a hand into the air?
    [Hand raised.]
    Mr. Green. Take a photograph of that, please, sir. Keep 
your hand up, please, ma'am. I have in my office a series of 
pictures and I have under these pictures, ask me about this 
picuture. I was interviewed yesterday, and I had to go through 
about a dozen of them to explain the pictures. Let the record 
reflect that but one person, Mrs. Young, believes that 
invidious discrimination exists in banking. I would challenge 
my colleagues across the aisle to engage in a testing process 
to get the latest empirical evidence of what Mrs. Young has 
experienced, what I have experienced.
    As a brief vignette, some years ago, when I was a neophyte 
lawyer, went in, received a loan. Paid it back early, never 
late with a payment. Went back to get a second loan. The loan 
officer at that time denied us the loan. Four lawyers, denied 
the loan. Paid a loan back early, never late. The query was 
why, and the answer was because you should not have received 
the first loan. Invidious discrimination in banking. Can any of 
you on the panel recall or recount a time in the history of 
this country when we had sufficient number of minority banks?
    [No response.]
    Mr. Green. Would you get the shot, please? Let the record 
reflect that no one can recall or recount a time. Can anyone 
explain to me how this legislation that we are currently 
considering as it relates to de novo banks, how it can improve 
and help us with minority banks, banks in Black neighborhoods 
and Latino neighborhoods? Yes, it will probably help us with 
rural and others, but can you give me some rationale as to how 
it is going to help us get more Black banks, please?
    Mr. Berlau. Congressman Green, yes, I believe I can.
    Mr. Green. I welcome your word, sir. Just be terse and 
laconic, pithy, and concise.
    Mr. Berlau. Thank you. Yes, I am not familiar with the 
specifics of all of Mrs. Young's application, but I think she 
was talking about some of the same things as rural banks face, 
requiring too much upfront capital----
    Mr. Green. I understand, but if I may, please.
    Mr. Berlau. Yes.
    Mr. Green. If I may intercede, and you are being very kind 
to me, so I do not mean to be rude, crude, and unrefined, but 
that will not help with the problem that Black people have with 
starting banks. It really is a money problem. How does that 
help us get more people who can raise this large sum of money 
necessary to start a de novo bank?
    Mr. Berlau. I do not know that it would solve all the 
problems.
    Mr. Green. I am not talking about all. Let's talk about one 
in particular that we all seem to have who are of color, and 
that is money.
    Mr. Berlau. If you need less money in front and you have 
phased-in capital, I think that would help----
    Mr. Green. If you have what?
    Mr. Berlau. If you have phased-in capital, like the bill 
does, rather than having to put, like, I think the gentleman 
here mentioned, like, say, $4 million, and then it was twice as 
much, the others. I think all of the sort of entrepreneurs 
outside the system who have trouble raising that kind of money, 
this would be a benefit, too.
    Mr. Green. I have 22 seconds, and I concur with you that 
phased-in is better. I prognosticate that, with phased-in, you 
will not phase in very many banks that will be owned by African 
Americans. It looks good on paper, but when you are talking 
about millions, it does not benefit people who do not have 
millions, and this has been a problem for us since our arrival 
here. We have integrated things, but we have not integrated the 
money.
    Chairman Barr. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Mr. Green. I am for integrating everything, and that 
includes the money.
    Chairman Barr. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Mr. Green. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Barr. The gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. 
Moore, is now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Moore. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For decades, America's 
community banks and credit unions have served, really, as a 
critical lifeline for small businesses, for rural communities, 
and for working families, but one thing that struck me is that 
the ability to form new banks has nearly vanished. Some 
interesting statistics: from 2000 to 2009, over 1,300 new banks 
were chartered in the United States. That is an average of 132 
per year, but get this: since 2010, only 88 new banks have been 
formed. Some States have not even seen a new bank chartered in 
years, but that is not because there is less demand or anything 
like that. It is the need for community-oriented banking 
remains high.
    What the problem is, from what I understand, is the current 
regulatory framework, that instead of promoting competition, it 
actually entrenches incumbency and discourages innovation and 
natural and organic growth. My understanding is it is now 
prohibitively difficult for new entrants to navigate the 
process, to raise sufficient capital and achieve long-term 
viability. Questions just a moment ago had to do with about 
different banks, about folks who maybe have been either 
underserved or underrepresented being able to have banks and so 
forth. What it looks like to me is that part of the regulatory 
framework that is in there actually is part of the problem that 
is reducing the incentive for new banks to form and for banks 
to grow.
    My first question would be to Ms. Usategui, and I apologize 
if I mispronounced your name--I am sorry--but you have helped 
build new banks from the ground up. What are the most 
burdensome or outdated regulatory barriers that you faced in 
securing a charter?
    Ms. Usategui. Thank you for the question. I still believe 
that capital is the number one challenge of de novo banks. The 
high amount of capital that is required nowadays is much larger 
than many of people can put to work. Back before the financial 
crisis, as Mr. Costello has attested, in my prior organization, 
we only had to raise about one-third that, and so I think the 
biggest barrier of entry right now is the capital component.
    I think the second one, in terms of regulatory scrutiny, 
like, we have had a great relationship with our regulators. I 
do believe the process is burdensome. The application process 
in some ways is duplicative between both agencies. I think 
streamlining that could be very efficient in producing, I 
think, more opportunity for people to form new banks, but the 
cost, too, is significant because we do not have a set 
timeline. Usually, you need to identify a CEO, a CFO, your 
chief banking officer, along those lines, and you need to pay 
them to be part of this. So, the longer the application process 
is drawn out, the more expensive the organizational expenses 
become, which then, in turn, requires more capital to hit those 
minimal capital requirements. I think streamlining the process 
and making sure there are set deadlines of when a regulator 
needs to accept an application or at least respond to the 
acceptance of an application, could be very beneficial in new 
bank formation.
    Mr. Moore. Let me ask you this. Do you think that a 
requirement that Federal agencies publish annual public reports 
detailing the number, the status, and the processing timelines 
of depository charter applications, holding company approvals 
and deposit insurance requests, help bring transparency to the 
current process and identify where the reforms are needed?
    Ms. Usategui. I think it could help, but I think the 
biggest challenge is really that period of time from when an 
application is submitted to when it is accepted. There are 
timelines already in place once an application is accepted to 
once it needs to be responded to on an approval process, but 
that initial timeframe is really the biggest challenge on the 
unknown.
    Mr. Moore. As I understand, even after a bank secures the 
approval, the regulatory environment really remains 
challenging. For the first 3 years, for example, new banks are 
subjected to heightened scrutiny. I believe they have to seek 
prior approval for any changes in senior management, subject to 
the enhanced reporting obligations, and often required to 
maintain capital levels that are significantly above regulatory 
minimums. This level of regulatory micromanagement really 
crushes innovation and makes entrepreneurship and banking an 
uphill battle. Mr. Costello, you were involved in one of the 
last banks chartered in Florida. In your experience, how do 
these post-charter rules affect your ability to grow, attract 
talent, or adapt to market demands?
    Mr. Costello. Yes, that is a great question. I will say, 
when you become a new bank, you are subject to an exam every 6 
months, and then on top of that, you have internal audits, 
external audits. We would go from one exam, and we would exit 
one exam and we would start another one. I would also like to 
echo what Mary said. The regulators we dealt with have been 
great. It is the regulations that need to be changed.
    Chairman Barr. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Mr. Moore. Thank you.
    Chairman Barr. The gentleman from South Carolina, Mr. 
Timmons, is now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Timmons. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to each 
of the witnesses for joining us today.
    Today's hearing is important as Congress and regulators 
consider how current rules impact mergers and acquisitions in 
the banking sector, especially for midsized banks. Complex, 
overlapping regulations make the merger and aquisition (M&A) 
process costly and time-consuming, often discouraging midsize 
banks from pursuing strategic mergers. To ensure a competitive 
and resilient banking sector, we need to reassess these 
regulations and create a more streamlined process that allows 
midsize banks to grow and better serve their communities. A 
barbell banking system, dominated by very large and very small 
banks, could reduce competition, threaten financial stability, 
and harm consumers and businesses. Last year, the U.S. Chamber 
of Commerce published a white paper titled, ``Antimerger 
Regulatory Proposals Threaten U.S. Financial Markets,'' which 
underscores the importance of bank M&A for the stability and 
growth of our financial system.
    Ms. Allexon, given the current competitive landscape, can 
you elaborate on how bank mergers and acquisitions contribute 
to financial stability and consumer choice? Specifically, how 
might the Biden-era M&A guidelines disproportionately affect 
midsize banks, potentially leading to a barbell banking system 
dominated by large national banks and small community banks?
    Ms. Allexon. Yes. Strategic combinations diversify banks' 
product offerings and the geographic reach of banks. This 
allows banks to provide more products and services to a wider 
array of people, and that creates a more stable and diversified 
funding base and an asset mix, and that leads to a more safe 
and sound bank. It also enables particularly midsize banks to, 
while simultaneously being able to continue to compete in the 
local market that they grew up in, be more viable competitors 
to larger institutions.
    Mr. Timmons. Thank you for that. If midsize banks continue 
to face disproportionate regulatory hurdles in the merger 
process, what are the potential long-term consequences for 
access to credit?
    Ms. Allexon. It stifles business growth, right, and it also 
forces more borrowers and more customers to financial products 
that are outside of the regulatory system. Like, we see the 
growth in private credit is one of those places, and while 
those are all viable financial services, we have to think, in 
the future, like, what direction is our bank regulatory system 
going? As more and more things get outside of the system and 
our banking system becomes smaller and smaller, our ability to 
make sure that it operates in a safe and sound way collectively 
decreases.
    Mr. Timmons. Thank you for that. As we consider rolling 
back many of the overbearing regulations from the Biden 
Administration, it is crucial that we focus not just on 
identifying the issues, but also on finding practical solutions 
to address them. By doing so, we can create a regulatory 
environment that supports growth and innovation while ensuring 
that consumer protections remain intact. The OCC's 2024 merger 
guidance document is a key place to start. By eliminating the 
expedited merger approval process, the Biden Administration 
removed important efficiencies that were already built into the 
system. I could easily spend my entire 5 minutes outlining the 
numerous provisions in this guidance that slow down the merger 
process and place unnecessary burdens on institutions seeking 
to grow or consolidate responsibly, but I want to ask you, Mr. 
Costello, regarding the OCC specifically, which other 
rulemakings do you believe are most negatively impacting the 
bank merger process, and what practical solutions would you 
recommend to help this space thrive?
    Mr. Costello. I would defer to Ms. Allexon on that 
question, really. I do not have a lot of experience with the 
OCC and mergers.
    Mr. Timmons. Sure. Great. Thanks.
    Ms. Allexon. I can answer that. There are a couple 
different things, and it is true across the different banking 
agencies. They need to think a little bit harder about their 
internal processes and the types of information that they get 
on applications and how it is considered and their decision 
making chain throughout their organization. There is some 
really easy things that they could do to streamline that. Like, 
the shot-clock legislation is a good step in that direction, 
but internally, they could create more expedited processes, 
dedicated applications, calendars, and change their delegation 
criteria to speed up processing.
    Mr. Timmons. Thank you for that. Finally, I am glad to see 
Chairman Barr's bill, the Financial Institution Regulatory 
Tailoring Enhancement Act, included in today's hearing. This 
bill rightly acknowledges that a one-size-fits-all regulatory 
approach does not work for our diverse financial system. By 
raising the asset threshold from $10 billion to $50 billion, it 
ensures that smaller and regional financial institutions are 
not burdened with the same complex regulations designed for the 
largest systemically important institutions. This targeted 
relief will allow community banks and credit unions to focus on 
what they do best serving families, small businesses and local 
economies, while still maintaining strong oversight where it is 
truly needed. With that, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Chairman Barr. The gentleman yields The gentleman from 
Wisconsin, Mr. Fitzgerald is now recognized for 5 minutes?
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you, Chair. Ms. Allexon, as 
consolidated trends continue in the banking sector, we should 
be supporting mergers that enable regional banks to grow and 
better serve their communities in the face of regulatory and 
market pressures. As Congress considers reforms, can you 
explain how bank mergers, especially those involving kind of 
the midsize regional banks, help promote a healthier, more 
competitive banking system?
    Ms. Allexon. Sure. Sure. There are a number of reasons why 
midsize banks enter into combinations, but those strategic 
mergers can create economies of scale that offset regulatory 
and compliance costs, and this creates space for more 
innovation and investment in systems and technologies that we 
all know are essential moving forward. As I just noted before, 
it also diversifies their product offerings and their 
geographic markets, and that creates a more stable, diversified 
funding base and asset mix that just creates a more stable, 
strong financial institution. That in turn allows them to be 
more competitive against large banks with national footprints, 
but it also simultaneously allows them to stay competitive 
within the local geography that they grew up in.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. In your role, as you advise financial 
institutions, do you think it is time we modernize how 
competition is evaluated in the bank mergers to reflect a 
broader range of financial service providers in the market, so 
decisions are based on real-world dynamics?
    Ms. Allexon. Yes, I believe that there is a general 
consensus that the current analysis used to review the 
competitive factors should be modernized. I talked about this a 
little bit in my written testimony, but we have clearly 
transitioned away from a very competitively isolated banking 
market into something that is totally different, and the 
historic approach that the agencies used, including the 
Department of Justice, to evaluate mergers is completely 
dependent on market deposits. We need to look at a wider array 
of competitors, nonbank competitors and online deposits in 
order to get a true, accurate picture of what the competitive 
market looks like.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Chairman, this is the point in the hearing 
where I promote my own piece of legislation, and that is why I 
plan to introduce the Bank Competition Modernization Act, which 
would categorize credit unions, fintechs, farm credit companies 
for the purposes of concentration analysis and bank mergers. 
The Bank Competition Modernization Act brings much-needed 
reform to how bank mergers are reviewed by making sure 
regulators consider the full scope of today's competitive 
financial landscape. Right now, community and regional banks 
are being evaluated as if they are the only complete piece in 
these regions, ignoring the massive growth of credit unions, 
fintech, and farm credit institutions that offer similar 
products. The bill ensures that all major players are accounted 
for in merger reviews, creating a fairer, more accurate 
process. By modernizing these outdated standards, we can reduce 
unnecessary regulatory roadblocks and support local banks and 
promote financial systems.
    I will just ask a final question of Ms. Allexon. Can you 
discuss some of the implications of the OCC and the FDIC's 2024 
guidance and what effect would it have had on bank merger 
application reviews if it had not been for Trump's 
administrators, the rescissions that now are happening?
    Ms. Allexon. So, those policy statements created a chilling 
effect on bank mergers. It is not the only factor that led to a 
decrease in bank consolidation over the last number of years. 
There has been economic factors that have supported that as 
well, but having inconsistency in policies with respect to bank 
mergers only created more insecurity with whether or not to 
proceed with the transaction. They are costly. They hey are 
time consuming. If you are not going to get favorable 
treatment, then it is nerve wracking for institutions to 
proceed.
    I think the other thing that those policy statements did is 
they kind of created a presumption that parties were starting 
from a negative position. If you are filing an application, and 
everybody is starting from a neutral position, and you have to 
justify your factors, that is how the system has always worked. 
If you are starting from behind, if there is an assumption that 
the transaction is bad to begin with, it is just the further 
you have to travel. It is very difficult to draft guidance. 
Every word means something. It is like legislation, every word 
means something, and so I think just guidance has to be very 
careful that you are not inadvertently creating presumptions 
like that?
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you very much. I yield back.
    Chairman Barr. The gentleman yields. First, I would like to 
thank all of our witnesses for your testimony today and taking 
time to come and be before the committee.
    Without objection, all members will have 5 legislative days 
to submit additional written questions for the witnesses to the 
chair. The questions will be forwarded to the witnesses for 
their response, and, witnesses, please respond no later than 
June 20, 2025.

    [The information referred to can be found in the appendix.]

    Chairman Barr. With that, this hearing is adjourned.

    [Whereupon, at 4:17 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]  
           
                               APPENDIX

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