[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                            ADVANCING FEDERAL WATER AND 
                              HYDROPOWER DEVELOPMENT:.
                            A STAKEHOLDER'S PERSPECTIVE
=======================================================================

                           OVERSIGHT HEARING

                               before the

             SUBCOMMITTEE ON WATER, WILDLIFE AND FISHERIES

                                 of the

                     COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                       Wednesday, April 30, 2025

                               __________

                           Serial No. 119-21

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Natural Resources


        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
                                   or
          Committee address: http://naturalresources.house.gov
      
 COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES

   
                      BRUCE WESTERMAN, AR, Chairman
		  ROBERT J. WITTMAN, VA, Vice Chairman
                    JARED HUFFMAN, CA, Ranking Member

Robert J. Wittman, VA,			 		  
Tom McClintock, CA			Joe Neguse, CO
Paul A. Gosar, AZ			Teresa Leger Fernandez, NM
Aumua Amata C. Radewagen, AS		Melanie Stansbury, NM					 
Doug LaMalfa, CA			Val Hoyle, OR
Daniel Webster, FL			Seth Magaziner, RI
Russ Fulcher, ID			Jared Golden, ME
Pete Stauber, MN			Dave Min, CA
Tom Tiffany, WI				Maxine Dexter, OR			
Lauren Boebert, CO			Pablo Jose Hernandez, PR
Cliff Bentz, OR				Emily Randall, WA
Jen Kiggans, VA				Yassamin Ansari, AZ
Wesley P. Hunt, TX			Sarah Elfreth, MD
Mike Collins, GA			Adam Gray, CA
Harriet M. Hageman, WY			Luz Rivas, CA
Mark Amodei, NV				Nydia Velazquez, NY
Tim Walberg, MI				Debbie Dingell, MI
Mike Ezell, MS				Darren Soto, FL
Celest Maloy, Utah			Julia Brownley, CA
Addison McDowell, NC			Vacancy
Jeff Crank, CO		
Nick Begich, AK
Jeff Hurd, CO
Mike Kennedy, UT                              

                          
                Vivian Moeglein, Staff Director
                  William David, Chief Counsel
               Ana Unruh Cohen, Democratic Staff Director

                  http://naturalresources.house.gov


                                 ------                                

             SUBCOMMITTEE ON WATER, WILDLIFE AND FISHERIES

                     HARRIET M. HAGEMAN, WY, Chair
                       MIKE EZELL, MS, Vice Chair
                    VAL T. HOYLE, OR, Ranking Member

Robert J. Wittman, VA                Seth Magaziner, RI
Tom McClintock, CA                   Debbie Dingell, MI
Aumua Amata C. Radewagen, AS         Melanie A. Stansbury, NM
Doug LaMalfa, CA                     Jared Golden, ME
Daniel Webster, FL                   Dave Min, CA
Lauren Boebert, CO                   Sarah Elfreth, MD
Cliff Bentz, OR                      Adam Gray, CA
Jen Kiggans, VA                      Luz Rivas, CA
Tim Walberg, MI                      Darren Soto, FL
Mike Ezell, MS                       Julia Brownley, CA
Celeste Maloy, UT                    Joe Neguse, CO
Addison McDowell, NC                 Jared Huffman, CA, ex officio
Jeff Crank, CO
Bruce Westerman, AR, ex officio

                               ----------
                               
                               CONTENTS

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

Hearing Memo.....................................................     v
Hearing held on Wednesday, April 30, 2025........................     1

Statement of Members:

    Hoyle, Hon. Val, a Representative in Congress from the State 
      of Oregon..................................................     1

    Hageman, Hon. Harriet, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Wyoming...........................................     2

    Huffman, Hon. Jared, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of California........................................     4

Statement of Witnesses:

    Webb, Jim, President and CEO, Lower Valley Energy, Afton, 
      Wyoming....................................................     6
        Prepared statement of....................................     7

    Bushman, Michelle, Deputy Director and General Counsel, 
      Western States Water Council, Murray, Utah.................    10
        Prepared statement of....................................    12

    Haswell, Jonathan, Chief Business Officer, Oceanwell LLC, 
      Woodside, California.......................................    22
        Prepared statement of....................................    24

    Sigl, Patrick, Director of Water and Natural Resources Law, 
      Salt River Project, Phoenix, Arizona.......................    27
        Prepared statement of....................................    28
        Questions submitted for the record.......................    34

Additional Materials Submitted for the Record:

    Submissions for the Record by Representative Bentz

        Prepared Statement of Michael Purdie, Director of 
          Regulatory Affairs and Markets, on behalf of the 
          National Hydropower Association........................    52

    Submissions for the Record by Representative Hoyle

        American Whitewater, Letter..............................    53

[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

To:        House Committee on Natural Resources Republican Members

From:     Water, Wildlife and Fisheries Subcommittee staff: Annick 
        Miller, ([email protected]), Doug Levine 
        (doug.levine@mail. house.gov), Kirby Struhar 
        ([email protected]), and Thomas Shipman 
        ([email protected]) x58331

Date:     April 28, 2025

Subject:   Oversight Hearing on ``Advancing Federal Water and 
        Hydropower Development: A Stakeholder's Perspective''
________________________________________________________________________
        _______

    The Subcommittee on Water, Wildlife and Fisheries will hold an 
oversight hearing titled ``Advancing Federal Water and Hydropower 
Development: A Stakeholder's Perspective'' on Wednesday, April 30, 
2025, at 10 a.m. (EDT) in 1324 Longworth House Office Building.
    Member offices are requested to notify Jackson Renfro 
(jackson.renfro @mail.house.gov) by 4:30 p.m. on Tuesday, April 29, 
2025, if their Member intends to participate in the hearing.
I. KEY MESSAGES

     Congressional Republicans have made modernizing federal 
            water infrastructure a priority of the 118th and 119th 
            Congresses.

     America's first renewable electricity source, hydropower, 
            has been providing flexible, low-cost, and emission-free, 
            baseload, renewable energy for more than 100 years.

     For generations, water resources projects have delivered 
            multiple benefits to humans, fish, and wildlife.

     Examining the regulatory challenges that this 
            infrastructure faces due to laws like the Endangered 
            Species Act (ESA), the Marine Mammal Protection Act (MMPA), 
            and the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) will help 
            to inform solutions to safeguard this infrastructure, and 
            ensure it delivers to communities for years to come.

II. WITNESSES

     Mr. Jim Webb, President and CEO, Lower Valley Energy, 
            Afton, Wyoming

     Mr. Jonathan Haswell, Chief Business Officer, OceanWell 
            LLC, Woodside, California

     Mr. Patrick Sigl, Director of Water and Natural Resources 
            Law, Salt River Project, Phoenix, Arizona

     Ms. Michelle Bushman, Deputy Director and General Counsel, 
            Western States Water Council, Murray, Utah (Minority 
            witness)

III. BACKGROUND
    Established in 1902, the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation (Reclamation) 
manages federal water projects for agricultural activities, municipal 
and industrial use, hydropower production, environmental purposes, and 
flood control and recreation for millions of people in the 17 western 
states.1 Through its 294 reservoirs, 490 dams, 53 
hydroelectric power plants, and approximately 10,000 miles of canals, 
Reclamation delivers 10 trillion gallons of water to millions of people 
across the 17 western states and provides irrigation to 10 million 
acres of farmland.2 Reclamation is the largest wholesale 
supplier of water in the United States, and the second largest producer 
of renewable, baseload, hydroelectric power, providing 14 percent of 
the nation's hydroelectric capacity and generation.3
Status of Water Infrastructure
    Reclamation operates more than 180 projects, varying in size, 
scale, and scope.4 Most Reclamation projects were authorized 
before 1970, and several critical components throughout the Reclamation 
network are over 100 years old.
Aging Infrastructure
    To address the challenges posed by Reclamation's aging 
infrastructure, the Omnibus Public Land Management Act of 2009 (P.L. 
111-11) authorized Reclamation to establish a process to inspect 
project facilities,5 fund extraordinary maintenance (XM) 
work, and execute contracts for extended repayment of the reimbursable 
costs.6 Public Law 111-11 directed the Secretary of the 
Interior, acting through the Commissioner of Reclamation, to develop 
guidelines for the inspection of facilities ``which could pose a risk 
to public safety or property damage if such project facilities were to 
fail,'' 7 and directed Reclamation to use the data and 
information gained from those inspections to provide recommendations to 
the operators of transferred works, determine inspection frequency, and 
provide additional information on potential risks to the areas 
surrounding project facilities.8 The statute also gave 
Reclamation the authority to provide technical assistance to the 
operating entity of transferred works or projects whose control 
Reclamation has transferred to a different entity.9
    The statute also authorized Reclamation to receive congressional 
appropriations for maintenance activities ``that the Secretary 
determines to be reasonably required to preserve the structural safety 
of the project facility.'' 10 Water users repay these funds 
over a period up to 50 years.11 The Secretary, or the 
operating entity in the case of transferred works, may ``carry out any 
emergency extraordinary operation and maintenance work on a project 
facility that the Secretary determines to be necessary to minimize the 
risk of imminent harm to public health or safety, or property.'' 
12 For projects owned and operated by Reclamation, funding 
to conduct this maintenance activity is allocated for the authorized 
project purposes and is repaid within 50 years of when the maintenance 
activity is complete.
    This program was amended in 2020 when Congress established a 
special account within the Department of the Treasury known as the 
Aging Infrastructure Account to provide funds and the repayment of 
funds to conduct this maintenance activity. Public Law 116-260 
13 stated that projects eligible to receive funds under this 
account are those that qualify as extraordinary operation and 
maintenance, are classified as ``major, non-recurring maintenance of a 
mission-critical asset,'' 14 or are projects that are 
ineligible to be funded under the Reclamation Safety of Dams Act of 
1978.15
    P.L. 116-260 also established funding application guidelines, 
including a description of the project, the funding level, non-federal 
funding source, and the repayment period requested, among other 
criteria.16
Dam Safety Program
    In addition to Reclamation's aging infrastructure authorities, the 
Reclamation Safety of Dams Act of 1978 (P.L. 95-578), which was later 
amended through the Reclamation Safety of Dams Act Amendments of 1984 
(P.L. 98-404), provided Reclamation with the authority to modify its 
dams to ensure safety.17 This created Reclamation's Dam 
Safety Program, which is comprised of two key components: the Safety of 
Dams Evaluation and Modification Program and the Department of the 
Interior (DOI) Dam Safety Program.18
    Under these authorities, Reclamation takes several actions to 
protect its dams. First, Reclamation conducts a Safety Evaluation of 
Existing Dams (SEED).19 If an evaluation is conducted and 
identifies a risk at a facility, Reclamation can begin a study of 
potential corrective actions and alternatives.20 Once a 
corrective action is identified, Reclamation submits a modification 
report to the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), and Congress for 
approval.21
    By providing authorities and guidelines to Reclamation to examine 
potential vulnerabilities and safety concerns with its infrastructure, 
along with funding to make the necessary improvements and upgrades to 
respond to these concerns, protecting the communities and interests 
that rely on this infrastructure for water, power, and agriculture 
across the western United States.
    The Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (IIJA) provided $500 
million for the Dam Safety Program and $3.2 billion for aging 
infrastructure projects.22
Title Transfer
    Title transfer plays an important role within Reclamation by 
promoting local control and reducing the federal government's role in 
local water management and decision-making. Many of the dams, canals, 
and hydropower plants constructed by Reclamation since its 
establishment in 1902 have had all or part of their responsibility for 
operation, maintenance, and replacement transferred to local project 
beneficiaries.23
    In order for local management to be eligible for a title transfer, 
the transferee must: demonstrate the technical and financial capability 
to meet obligations; affirm that it has no plans to alter the 
maintenance or operation of the facility; affirm that there are no 
competing demands for the use of the facility; ensure that the transfer 
would not impact other contractors, stakeholders, and tribes; commit to 
abiding by existing contracts and agreements; assume all responsibility 
to commitments and agreements; and submit to a public comment period to 
address any ongoing issues within the facility.24
    These transfers traditionally require Congressional approval. 
However, the John D. Dingell Jr. Conservation, Management and 
Recreation Act (P.L. 116-9) enacted on March 12, 2019, provided 
Reclamation the authority to transfer titles of certain facilities 
without separate and individual acts of Congress.25 However, 
that bill did not give Reclamation the authority to transfer so called 
``reserved works'' without Congressional action. A reserved work is 
considered any infrastructure that is owned, operated, or maintained by 
Reclamation. This Act enabled Reclamation to transfer certain federal 
facilities provided that the transferee has completed payment of all 
capital costs.26
    Flexibility for transfers of Reclamation facilities allows for 
efficient operation of federal water infrastructure. Since 
Reclamation's first title transfer took place at the Rio Grande Project 
in 1996, Reclamation has transferred or partially transferred a total 
of 46 projects and facilities to local ownership.27 
Promoting title transfer of Reclamation facilities to local ownership 
was a priority of House Republicans in the 118th Congress. The Swanson 
and Hugh Butler Reservoirs Land Conveyances Act (P.L. 118-185) was 
signed into law on December 23, 2024,28 and provided for the 
conveyance of Reclamation lands to Hitchcock and Frontier Counties in 
Nebraska. This resolved a dispute between local vendors, the counties, 
and Reclamation and ensured that local small businesses may continue to 
operate on the transferred lands without impacting local water 
management.29
Construction Authorities
    Traditionally, Reclamation's role in water project development has 
been limited to federally authorized water storage projects. For most 
of these, Reclamation has initially funded 100% of the costs for 
construction and has been repaid by project beneficiaries over a 40- to 
50-year term.
    Prior to 2016, Congress had not authorized significant new 
Reclamation water storage and conveyance projects since the late 1970s. 
In Section 4007 of the Water Infrastructure Improvements for the Nation 
(WIIN) Act, Congress enacted a new construction authority for 
Reclamation to build surface and groundwater storage and conveyance 
projects.30
    These provisions made significant changes to Reclamation's role in 
developing water infrastructure projects. The WIIN Act authorized 
maximum federal support of 50% of total costs for certain approved 
federal water storage projects, as well as a maximum of 25% federal 
support for approved non-federal surface and groundwater storage 
projects. The WIIN Act authorities have expired, but funding is 
available for qualifying projects approved before January 1, 2021.
    Instead of reauthorizing the WIIN Act authorities, the Democrat-
controlled 117th Congress enacted the Infrastructure Investment and 
Jobs Act (IIJA), which created a new authority for surface storage, 
groundwater storage, and conveyance projects. While this authority is 
not subject to any sunset, the language did not include the ability for 
future projects to be eligible for feasibility studies or construction. 
In effect, these authorities are unusable once the currently authorized 
projects are completed. Additionally, IIJA created a new small storage 
and groundwater storage authority that allows for grant funding for 
projects with a maximum storage capacity of 30,000 acre-feet. These 
authorities expire on November 15, 2026.
    Currently, Reclamation lacks authorities to build water 
infrastructure projects not already approved.
Hydropower Development
    During the 20th century, the federal government invested 
significantly in water infrastructure throughout the western United 
States to reduce flood risks to communities, provide reliable water 
supplies, and generate dependable, renewable hydropower. Reclamation is 
the second largest hydropower producer in the United States, and this 
renewable, baseload resource has played a critical role in achieving 
Reclamation's mission to provide reliable, low-cost water and power to 
the arid west.31
    The 53 hydroelectric power plants that Reclamation directly 
operates are critical to the electric grid across the 17 Reclamation 
states. Those plants generate roughly 40 million megawatt-hours (MWh) 
of electricity, or enough to power 3.8 million homes in the United 
States.32 According to the Energy Information Administration 
(EIA), hydropower accounts for nearly 27% of renewable electricity 
generation and about 6% of total U.S. electricity 
generation.33 As a reliable, emissions-free, baseload power 
source, hydropower will play a critical role in meeting the United 
States's future energy demand in the years and decades to come.
    To carry out their energy production functions, Reclamation 
partners with the four Power Marketing Administrations (PMAs) operated 
by the Department of Energy. While Reclamation's facilities generate 
electricity, the four PMAs--Bonneville Power Administration (BPA), 
Western Area Power Administration (WAPA), Southeastern Power 
Administration (SEPA), and Southwestern Power Administration (SWPA)--
operate the transmission and distribution infrastructure that bring the 
power to homes, businesses, and communities across the west. While 
Reclamation operates in the 17 western states, the PMAs transmit 
electricity to 34 states.34
    The permitting process for non-federal hydropower development 
located within a Reclamation project falls under Reclamation's Lease of 
Power Privilege (LOPP) contract, the Federal Energy Regulatory 
Commission (FERC) license, or, in some instances, both.35 
Unless specified in the law, Reclamation projects authorized for 
federal hydropower development are within the jurisdiction of 
Reclamation, requiring a LOPP for non-federal development. A LOPP is a 
contractual authorization issued by Reclamation to a non-federal entity 
to use a Reclamation facility for electric power generation consistent 
with Reclamation project purposes. However, if a Reclamation project is 
not authorized for federal hydropower development, under current law, 
that development is within the jurisdiction of FERC, requiring a FERC 
license for non-federal development. As of January 2025, 16 projects 
operate under the LOPP process for a total of nearly 58,000 
kilowatts.36
    In December 2020, the Trump administration released the Hydropower 
Strategic Plan for Fiscal Year 2021-2026,37 which had three 
key goals: ensuring that Reclamation-produced hydropower continues to 
be part of the United States energy portfolio; obtaining customer 
satisfaction in hydropower deliveries; and cultivating a skilled and 
strategic workforce.38 In embracing the value of hydropower, 
one of the Plan's goals was to ``investigate new marketing strategies 
with Power Marketing Administration partners.'' 39
Types of Hydropower Development

     Impoundment is the conventional and most common type of 
            hydroelectric power plant, using dams to contain water in a 
            reservoir. The contained water is released as needed, 
            flowing through a turbine to generate electricity.

     A diversion, sometimes called a ``run-of-river'' facility, 
            channels a portion of a river through a canal or a penstock 
            to utilize the natural decline of the riverbed elevation to 
            produce energy.40

     Pumped storage hydropower facilities use water and gravity 
            to create and store energy. Pumped storage acts like a 
            battery, storing energy to release it when needed. 
            Typically, it is a configuration of two water reservoirs at 
            different elevations that can generate power as water moves 
            down from one reservoir to the other.41

     Conduit hydropower involves retrofitting existing water-
            carrying structures (like canals, pipelines, and aqueducts) 
            with electricity-generating equipment. There are 
            opportunities to use more than double conduit hydropower in 
            the United States, which has the largest resource potential 
            in the western states.42 In 2013, the Bureau of 
            Reclamation Small Conduit Hydropower Development and Rural 
            Jobs Act was signed into law, helping to boost the 
            development of small U.S. hydropower projects.

Harnessing New Technologies
Snowpack Measurements
    Snowpack plays a vital role in keeping reservoirs full. Winter and 
spring snowpack typically melt gradually throughout the year, flowing 
into and refilling reservoirs. During most years, the maximum snow-
water equivalent 43 (SWE) denotes the annual peak of surface 
water resources. SWE is a key index for forecasting stream and river 
flow timing and amount, and for a wide variety of water management 
decisions. Typically, these measurements are done manually by inserting 
a tube through the entire depth of the overlaying snow cover. However, 
new technologies have been developed to provide more accurate 
measurements.
    For example, in 2012, the Turlock Irrigation District (TID) 
partnered with NASA to fly an airplane with light detection and ranging 
(LiDAR) technology over its entire watershed, taking millions of points 
of measurement to give a complete picture of the snowpack. This 
technology has allowed TID to manage its reservoirs better, saving 
water from being unnecessarily released due to poor 
models.44
    In December 2020, Congress authorized the Snow Water Supply 
Forecast Program (P.L. 116-260, Sec. 1111) to enhance snow monitoring 
and subsequent water supply forecasts. Under this program, Reclamation 
provides cost-share on a competitive basis for a broad range of 
participants to conduct snow monitoring and water supply forecasting 
projects.
Deep-sea Water Farms
    As the need for water supply throughout the country increases, some 
are turning to the process of desalination to supplement existing 
infrastructure and traditional techniques of water management and 
conservation. Desalination is already a popular option in the Middle 
East in countries like Israel, the United Arab Emirates and Saudi 
Arabia.45 This technology is not without its challenges. 
Desalinated water is typically significantly more expensive than stored 
water, building desalination plants is a costly barrier to entry, the 
desalination process is very energy intensive, and even the largest 
desalination plants can only replace a portion of 
consumption.46
    Recently, new water technologies have emerged aimed at developing 
deep-sea water farms that harness natural hydrostatic pressure at 
depths in excess of 400 meters (1,300 feet) to drive a high-pressure 
water purification method called reverse osmosis. In California, the 
Las Virgenes Municipal Water District has partnered with OceanWell, a 
water technology company, on a public/private partnership to research 
an approach that addresses water reliability through harvesting fresh 
water from the deep ocean.47
Challenges for Infrastructure and Permitting Issues
    Federal agencies play an important role in our ability to access 
and develop water and hydropower resources due to the various 
environmental laws passed by Congress. Laws such as the National 
Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) and Endangered Species Act (ESA) impact 
the construction and maintenance of water infrastructure and day-to-day 
operations. For example, species listings and administrative 
rulemakings under the ESA, and subsequent litigation, continue to 
profoundly impact federal activities such as federal dam operations, 
water deliveries, and access to water resources.
    ESA challenges facing water and hydropower infrastructure include 
contentious and, in some cases, conflicting biological opinions (BiOps) 
for listed species, the cost of adhering to the BiOps, and issues 
surrounding the environmental baseline of existing projects. The intent 
of a BiOp is to ensure the project does not reduce the likelihood of 
survival and recovery of an ESA-listed species. However, radical 
environmental organizations have utilized the citizen suit provisions 
and the vague nature of the ESA to litigate against water and 
hydropower projects.
    Another regulatory challenge for many of these projects, 
particularly in the Pacific Northwest, is provisions that govern the 
``take'' of marine mammals under the Marine Mammal Protection Act 
(MMPA, P.L. 92-522). The MMPA, like the ESA, is administered by both 
the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) and the Fish and Wildlife 
Service (FWS). One challenge that the Pacific Northwest and its 
hydropower facilities have faced is salmon predation by sea lions and 
other pinnipeds. These pinnipeds have long been a major threat to the 
salmon population in the Columbia River basin. In 2018, Congress 
passed, and President Trump signed into law, the Endangered Salmon 
Predation Prevention Act (P.L. 115-329), allowing the Secretary of 
Commerce to authorize the take of sea lions in the Columbia 
River.48 Examining additional ways to make the MMPA work 
more effectively to combat these challenges is critical to safeguarding 
hydropower infrastructure going forward.
    Over the course of the 118th and 119th Congresses, the Committee on 
Natural Resources has prioritized reform to the ESA, MMPA, and NEPA. In 
February of 2025, the Subcommittee on Water, Wildlife and Fisheries 
held an oversight hearing, ``Evaluating the Implementation of the 
Marine Mammal Protection Act and the Endangered Species Act.'' 
Information from that hearing can be found here: https://
docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=117865 and the 
hearing memo can be found here: https://naturalresources.house.gov/
calendar/eventsingle.aspx?EventID=416934. More recently, in March 2025, 
Chairman Westerman introduced H.R. 1897, the ``ESA Amendments Act of 
2025'', which makes definitional changes to the ESA, focuses on species 
recovery, and seeks to streamline the permitting process, among other 
provisions. On March 25, 2025, the Committee held a legislative hearing 
on the bill; the hearing memo can be found here: https://
naturalresources.house.gov/uploadedfiles/hearing_memo_--
_sub_on_wwf_leg_hrg_on_4_bills_03.25.25.pdf and a title-by-title 
analysis of Chairman Westerman's legislation can be found here: https:/
/naturalresources.house.gov/uploadedfiles/
esa_amendments_act_of_2025_title_by_title_119th_final.pdf
    Finally, NEPA reform continues to be a significant priority for the 
Committee beginning with the work initiated in the 118th Congress 
through H.R. 1, the ``Lower Energy Costs Act,'' which included several 
key reforms to the NEPA process, including the One Federal Decision 
framework, establishing timeframes for NEPA reviews, and litigation 
reform.49 Another successful legislative initiative during 
the 118th Congress was the Fiscal Responsibility Act of 2023, which was 
signed into law under President Biden in June 2023 and represented the 
first significant reform to NEPA in over forty years. It narrowed the 
scope of impacts considered under NEPA, encouraged the adoption of 
categorical exclusions, set completion timelines, and provided page 
limits for both environmental impact statements and environmental 
assessments.50
    Improving the implementation of these statutes, a key priority for 
Republicans this Congress, will provide certainty to many of the 
stakeholders involved in western water infrastructure, from hydropower 
developers to end water users.
Hydropower Relicensing
    Under the Federal Power Act (FPA), the Federal Energy Regulatory 
Commission (FERC) has the authority to license non-federal hydropower 
facilities. FERC currently issues approximately 1,030 active, non-
federal hydropower licenses.51 While FERC itself is under 
the authorizing jurisdiction of the House Energy and Commerce 
Committee, the resource agencies under the jurisdiction of the House 
Committee on Natural Resources have imposed significant mandates on 
licenses and the process of granting them in the Federal Power Act and 
federal environmental statutes like the ESA.
    Most licenses are valid for 30 to 50 years; however, the process to 
relicense facilities can be complex, expensive, lengthy, and 
uncertain.52 According to the National Hydropower 
Association, relicensing a hydropower facility takes seven to 10 years 
and nearly half of non-federal facilities are up for relicensing by 
2035.53 During licensing or re-licensing, FERC must consider 
the project's power aspect but must also give equal consideration to 
energy conservation, fish and wildlife, recreational opportunities, and 
other federally mandated needs.54
    Consultations under the ESA also play a key role during the 
relicensing process. The so-called ``environmental baseline'' utilized 
during the ESA Section 7 consultation process is particularly important 
during the relicensing process. The FWS and NMFS (the Services) have 
often used the environmental baseline to create a hypothetical 
environment that ignores existing infrastructure. This complicates 
relicensing because the Services may utilize this flawed interpretation 
to justify a BiOp that the existing infrastructure in question 
jeopardizes the continued existence of a listed species. Any jeopardy 
BiOp could put the future operations of any facility at risk due to 
increased costs, time delays, and mitigation measures.
Conclusion
    These dynamics taken together--the challenges facing western water 
infrastructure, the importance of hydropower as part of the United 
States' electric grid, and the various permitting and regulatory 
requirements that these projects face from several different 
environmental statutes--require a robust examination of how to 
safeguard this critical infrastructure for the 21st century. 
Accomplishing this goal will achieve several objectives: enhancing 
American energy security by ensuring an all-of-the-above energy mix 
includes clean, renewable, baseload hydropower energy, and improving 
access to water resources for end users across the West.
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

 
                    OVERSIGHT HEARING ON: ADVANCING.
                      FEDERAL WATER AND HYDROPOWER
                DEVELOPMENT: A STAKEHOLDER'S PERSPECTIVE

                              ----------                              


                       Wednesday, April 30, 2025

                     U.S. House of Representatives

             Subcommittee on Water, Wildlife and Fisheries

                     Committee on Natural Resources

                             Washington, DC

                              ----------                              

    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:07 a.m. in 
Room 1324, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Harriet 
Hageman [Chair of the Subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Hageman, McClintock, Bentz, Crank, 
Hoyle, Magaziner, Elfreth, Gray, Soto, and Huffman.
    Mr. Crank [presiding]. The Subcommittee on Water, Wildlife 
and Fisheries will come to order.
    Good morning, everyone. I want to welcome members, 
witnesses, and our guests in the audience to today's hearing.
    And without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a 
recess of the Subcommittee at any time.
    Under Committee rule 4(f), any oral opening statements at 
hearings are limited to the Chair and the Ranking Member. I 
therefore ask unanimous consent that all other members' opening 
statements be made part of the hearing record if they are 
submitted in accordance with Committee rule 3(o).
    Without objection, so ordered.
    We are here today to hold an oversight hearing entitled, 
``Advancing Federal Water and Hydropower Development: A 
Stakeholder Perspective.''
    I now recognize Ms. Hoyle for her opening statement.

 STATEMENT OF THE HON. VAL HOYLE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS 
                    FROM THE STATE OF OREGON

    Ms. Hoyle. Thank you. Good morning, and thank you to the 
witnesses who traveled to be here. I look forward to hearing 
from you about how Congress can help address the challenges 
that you are facing. I expect that we will hear a lot of 
bipartisan agreement at this hearing. There is a lot that we 
can work on together.
    Communities across the West are facing water challenges. 
There is not enough of it. Sometimes there is too much in 
different places. Droughts are getting longer and more severe, 
snowpacks are getting smaller, and everyone is having to adapt.
    Hydropower, when done right, is an important part of the 
balanced energy system. However, the Administration and the 
DOGE effort has been haphazardly gutting Federal agencies so 
non-partisan civil servants can't do the work that everyone 
here agrees that we should do.
    For example, I was happy to support the generational 
investments in our Western water infrastructure and drought 
resilience through the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and the 
Inflation Reduction Act. These laws provided over $15 billion 
to repair our aging infrastructure and modernize our water 
systems for the 21st century. That is something that everyone 
can agree that Federal tax dollars should be spent on, 
infrastructure. That funding has been at work updating our 
aging systems, supporting tribal water access, and boosting 
water efficiency and reuse. Despite that progress, the 
Administration has paused key water grants and fired the 
workers who have helped communities across the West access 
those funds. This chaos is preventing the Federal Government 
from supporting reliable waterpower deliveries across the West 
and also leaving contractors and workers in limbo as they have 
to stop the work that they were planning to do.
    At the Bonneville Power Administration and other power 
marketing administrations, staffing cuts have targeted 
engineers and operations staffs, the people who keep the lights 
on. Power marketing administrations provide affordable power 
across the West at no cost to the taxpayer. So these cuts are 
not about government efficiency, because we as ratepayers pay 
for them.
    These cuts are threatening our grid stability, especially 
in rural communities like the ones I represent. For example, I 
heard from a constituent that DOGE's mass firing at BPA meant 
there weren't enough linemen in central Oregon to repair a high 
voltage transmission line if it went down. They left us with 
one. That is not government efficiency.
    There are real opportunities to improve efficiency in 
government, but cutting programs and staff across the board 
without thought or strategy is just creating chaos and hurting 
our economies.
    We need well-staffed and well-funded Federal agencies to 
deliver safe, reliable water and electricity. And of course, 
everyone should want efficient use of those dollars and that 
work that is done. I look forward to hearing from today's 
witnesses on how we can make that happen.
    Ms. Hoyle. Thank you. I yield back.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. I now recognize myself for a 5-
minute opening statement.
    I want to apologize for being a bit late today. I was at a 
press conference at the Department of Ag with some important 
announcements. So again, I am sorry. I know that your time is 
valuable and we want to be considerate of everyone in the room.

  STATEMENT OF THE HON. HARRIET HAGEMAN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
               CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF WYOMING

    Ms. Hageman. Today the Subcommittee on Water, Wildlife and 
Fisheries will hear from stakeholders on how Congress may 
continue to advance and support Federal water resource and 
infrastructure management and hydropower development.
    Water is the Interior West's most important resource. In my 
home State of Wyoming, access to water resources is crucial to 
our success. Whether water is used for irrigation, recreation, 
human consumption, manufacturing, or hydropower production, our 
rivers, lakes, reservoirs, dams, canals, laterals, siphons, 
headgates, and tunnels are key to ensuring that we have an 
adequate water supply to meet the demands and needs of our 
citizens, ag producers, energy producers, small business 
owners, and manufacturers that operate across our State.
    Since its creation in 1902, the Bureau of Reclamation has 
been the primary agency responsible for the construction and 
operation of the largest water infrastructure projects in the 
West, with the North Platte Project and Shoshone Project in 
Wyoming being the first two permitted and constructed in our 
country's history. The North Platte Project alone provides 
municipal water recreational opportunities, wildlife habitat, 
irrigates hundreds of thousands of acres in Wyoming and 
Nebraska, and is responsible for the creation of the Miracle 
Mile in central Wyoming, the number-one blue ribbon fishery in 
North America.
    Without infrastructure such as Pathfinder Dam and 
Reservoir, Buffalo Bill Dam and Reservoir, the Flaming Gorge 
Reservoir, Lake Mead, and others and their related 
infrastructure, many of our western rivers and streams would be 
dry for a substantial portion of the year, thereby making it 
impossible to have the abundant wildlife, fisheries, habitat, 
and recreational opportunities that we all enjoy today.
    As the largest wholesale supplier of water, Reclamation 
delivers approximately 10 trillion gallons of water to people 
across the 17 Reclamation States each year. In addition to 
being a water supplier, many Reclamation projects also produce 
affordable and reliable hydropower. The energy that this 
infrastructure generates serves as the backbone of our region's 
energy future, which is another important aspect that we will 
be examining today.
    As a litigator, I fought for Wyoming's water rights and 
represented irrigation districts, municipalities, and farmers 
for decades. Nearly every major water project has been met with 
negativity and criticism by naysayers and academics, yet 
history has shown the tremendous environmental value and 
economic impact of these projects across the board.
    As our witnesses will discuss today, we must continue 
investing in our Federal water and hydropower projects and 
development, continuing to support Reclamation's work 
maintaining the infrastructure that we have. And increasing our 
Nation's water storage and conveyance capacity means more food, 
more energy, and more prosperity for generations to come in 
Wyoming and across the United States.
    But we cannot solely rely on the success of those who came 
before us. Like other hearings we have held at this Committee, 
we need to examine the steps that we need to take to chart a 
better path forward, one that safeguards the existing 
infrastructure and projects that Reclamation operates, but also 
allows for more hydropower production, more storage and 
conveyance capacity, and greater access to these resources for 
the communities that depend on them.
    For one, aging infrastructure is a reality that every 
Reclamation project is facing. In Wyoming a few years ago we 
had a tunnel collapse that cut off water to tens of thousands 
of acres of productive farmland during the height of the 
irrigation season. We must do more to prevent critical failures 
in our infrastructure because those failures not only risk 
industries like farming, but also risk surrounding lands and 
the lives of our families. We must protect and maintain the 
infrastructure we have while continuing to build new storage 
projects. Future generations depend on our investment now.
    Protecting and maintaining this infrastructure also means 
examining the various environmental statutes that impact the 
design, construction, operation, maintenance, and replacement 
of these projects. Statutes like the Endangered Species Act, 
the Marine Mammal Protection Act, and the National 
Environmental Policy Act have all been weaponized as barriers 
to the development and maintenance of Reclamation projects and 
water resources. Efforts to reform and modernize these statutes 
will similarly improve the management of our water resources, 
thereby providing benefits to every single person in this room, 
regardless of where you may call home.
    I lastly want to thank my constituent, Jim Webb, for being 
here today, and for your willingness to testify before this 
Subcommittee. With that I want to take the time to thank all of 
our witnesses for being here, and I look forward to a robust 
conversation.
    Ms. Hageman. I now recognize Ranking Member Huffman for his 
opening statements.

   STATEMENT OF THE HON. JARED HUFFMAN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
             CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

    Mr. Huffman. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I am glad we are 
having a hearing to talk about the reliability of our water and 
power systems, especially in the West. If Congress wants to do 
something about this, and I hope we do, on a bipartisan basis, 
the most important thing is to pick up where we left off two 
congresses ago. This is my thirteenth year in Congress. I have 
heard endless debates and endless politics and political 
theater over these subjects. But we took action. We made 
historic investments, and that is enabling us to face some 
really important realities when it comes to these issues.
    Climate change is shrinking our snowpack. It is drying up 
many of our rivers. It is straining our water infrastructure, 
especially aging infrastructure. And we have to face the 
reality that we have less water than we would like right now. 
That is not just because of growing demand. Rising 
temperatures, shrinking snowpack, shifting precipitation 
patterns, all of this is cutting into supplies around the West. 
Communities are being squeezed harder and harder every year by 
climate change and prolonged drought. According to a Colorado 
College State of the Rockies poll, 77 percent of Western voters 
view climate change as a serious problem; 88 percent see 
inadequate water supply as a major concern.
    But despite these clear mounting challenges, the Trump 
administration continues to claim that the climate crisis is 
fake news. And the real kicker is that they are not just 
denying this reality, they are actively working to make the 
crisis worse, including dismantling the very agencies that 
deliver water and power to millions of Americans. And under the 
guise of efficiency, of course, we know Elon and the DOGE folks 
have been pushing massive indiscriminate layoffs, gutting the 
Bureau of Reclamation and the power marketing administrations, 
thousands of positions--engineers, dam operators, hydrologists, 
emergency operators--critical positions have been eliminated or 
left vacant, and these are literally the people who keep our 
taps running and the lights on for tens of millions of 
Americans.
    And we are already seeing the consequences: lost 
institutional knowledge, fraying relationships with local 
agencies, critically important water resilience projects 
delayed or canceled, decades-old Federal local partnerships 
eroding before our eyes.
    And the stakes are equally high with our energy grid. 
Indiscriminate cuts at the Energy Department's Power Marketing 
Administrations, including Bonneville and Western, are putting 
grid reliability at risk, raising real concerns about blackouts 
and system stability across the West.
    Now, I don't know about you, but firing workers, rehiring 
them, and then maybe firing them again is not exactly a good 
plan for stability. It is volatile enough just trying to manage 
water and power resources. It is a high wire act on the good 
days. When you add in all of that chaos, and think about what 
that does to your goal of having a skilled professional 
workforce. It is a recipe for terrible morale, for vacancies 
that can cripple an agency's effectiveness, and ultimately for 
failure. President Trump wants to dismantle the Federal 
workforce, and then we get to the next shoe that will drop, to 
replace them, these experienced public servants, replace them 
with political loyalists.
    So let me be clear. Our Federal workforce should reflect 
competence and dedication to public service, not just yes-men 
for Donald Trump and his billionaire friends. All of our 
government should reflect those values, but especially in the 
areas of water and power. Look, the bottom line is this 
Administration's actions show a dangerous failure to understand 
the complexity of our Nation's water and power systems, 
especially in the West.
    Reliable infrastructure, strong working relationships, 
these things don't happen by accident. They require long-term 
investments and a professional, mission-driven workforce, not 
the hollowed-out shell that this Administration seems to be 
creating.
    And let's remember that the entire scheme of this Federal 
workforce purge is overseen by a guy at the Office of 
Management and Budget who says on the record that he wants 
every Federal employee to feel traumatized, to feel miserable 
coming into work every day. That is a recipe for disaster 
across government, but especially when it comes to the water 
and power agencies that we are discussing here today. We need 
to do better.
    Mr. Huffman. With that I yield back.
    Ms. Hageman. I will now introduce our panel of witnesses.
    Mr. Jim Webb, President and CEO at Lower Valley Energy in 
Afton, Wyoming.
    Ms. Michelle Bushman, Deputy Director and General Counsel 
at Western States Water Council in Murray, Utah.
    Mr. Jonathan Haswell, Chief Business Officer at OceanWell 
LLC in Woodside, California.
    And Mr. Patrick Sigl, Director of Water and Natural 
Resource Law at Salt River Project in Phoenix, Arizona.
    Let me remind the witnesses that, under Committee rules, 
they must limit their oral statements to 5 minutes, but their 
entire statement will appear in the hearing record.
    To begin your testimony please press the button on the 
microphones. And we use timing lights. When you begin the light 
will turn green. When you have 1 minute remaining the light 
will turn yellow. And at the end of 5 minutes the light will 
turn red, and I will ask you to please complete your statement.
    I will also allow all witnesses to testify before member 
questioning.
    I now recognize Mr. Webb for 5 minutes.

STATEMENT OF JIM WEBB, PRESIDENT AND CEO, LOWER VALLEY ENERGY, 
                         AFTON, WYOMING

    Mr. Webb. Thank you, Chair Hageman, Ranking Member Hoyle, 
and members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity 
to be here today. This is exciting.
    My name is Jim Webb, and I serve as the President and CEO 
of Lower Valley Energy, a not-for-profit cooperative serving 
western Wyoming and southeastern Idaho. I am here today to 
highlight the importance of the Columbia River System and the 
Bonneville Power Administration not just to my community, but 
to the entire Western grid.
    Hydropower is America's oldest and largest renewable 
resource, providing nearly 30 percent of all renewable 
generation. It is uniquely dispatchable, carbon free, 
affordable, and essential to maintaining grid reliability. At 
Lower Valley Energy about 85 percent of our power supply comes 
from hydropower, including two low-impact facilities that we 
operate. We are also exploring the opportunity to install a 
third system on an existing Federal dam that does not have 
generation now.
    One of hydropower's greatest strengths is its operational 
flexibility. Hydro plants can quickly ramp up or down, provide 
critical grid services like frequency regulation, and have 
black start capabilities, meaning that they can restore power 
independently after a major outage. As we integrate more 
variable resources like wind and solar while demand continues 
to soar for electricity, hydropower's role as a flexible 
backbone becomes even more critical.
    The Bonneville Power Administration is critical to our 
success. BPA markets power from 31 Federal hydro projects and 
operates a vast network of over 15,000 miles of transmission 
lines. Ratepayers cover BPA's operating costs, capital 
investments, and environmental responsibilities through its 
power and transmission sales revenues.
    Stated more plainly, BPA ratepayers--not taxpayers, as was 
already mentioned--fund its workforce and programs without 
burdening the Federal budget. Because of this self-pay 
structure, staffing reductions at BPA and other PMAs do not 
yield Federal taxpayer savings. Instead, they impact BPA's 
ability to provide reliable service, maintain grid 
infrastructure, implement fish and wildlife mitigation 
programs, and carry out their public mission.
    I do express concern over the December 14, 2023 MOU between 
the Federal Government, non-governmental organizations, and the 
Six Sovereigns which paves the way for breaching of the four 
lower Snake River dams. This agreement was reached largely 
behind doors without meaningful input from public power 
utilities, agricultural communities, or many Tribes. Breaching 
these dams would have severe consequences. They provide around 
3,000 megawatts of clean, flexible, and affordable power, and 
support several thousand megawatts of wind and solar 
generation. Removing them would compromise grid reliability, 
increase energy prices, and place additional strain on already 
congested transmission corridors.
    The previous Trump administration completed a resource 
intensive environmental impact statement and NOAA biological 
opinion on the Snake River dams in 2020. These studies 
concluded that dam breaching is not a viable option. A more 
recent NOAA Fisheries rebuilding report ignores prior NOAA 
science, making a 180-degree turn largely to presume breaching 
the Snake River dams is the only viable path to rebuilding 
salmon populations without scientifically reliable data or 
analysis to back up its claims. In my opinion, we don't need to 
open the EIS and do more studies trying to come up with 
different results to fit somebody else's narrative.
    We fully support fish and wildlife recovery. Approximately 
25 percent of our monthly bills that we pay to BPA goes to 
support fish mitigation. Our investments are yielding great 
returns. Recent data shows that salmon returns have actually 
increased threefold since the first dams were built. We are 
doing our part. Now let's focus on other causes of salmon 
decline such as ocean conditions, habitat, predators, and 
climate change.
    In closing, I urge Congress to protect the Columbia River 
System, ensure BPA has the tools to succeed, and keep energy 
affordable and reliable for millions of Americans.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify, and I welcome 
questions. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Webb follows:]
Prepared Statement of Mr. James R. Webb, President and Chief Executive 
                      Officer, Lower Valley Energy

    Hydropower helped us electrify America and is essential to our 
nation's future. Chair Hageman, Ranking Member Hoyle, and Members of 
the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today. My 
name is Jim Webb, and I serve as the President and Chief Executive 
Officer of Lower Valley Energy (LVE). I am testifying today to provide 
my insights as a utility manager and to speak on behalf of stakeholders 
who rely on the power, reliability, and stewardship provided by the 
Columbia River System and the Bonneville Power Administration (BPA).
    Lower Valley Energy (LVE), headquartered in Afton, Wyoming, 
exemplifies the benefits of the Columbia River System and BPA's 
services. As a member-owned, not-for-profit electric cooperative, LVE 
serves communities in western Wyoming and eastern Idaho, delivering 
some of the nation's most affordable and reliable electricity.
The Importance of Hydropower
    Hydropower is the nation's oldest and largest source of renewable 
electricity, providing nearly 30% of all renewable generation in the 
U.S. It's in a class of its own, though, as it offers dispatchable, 
low-cost, carbon-free power and plays a unique and irreplaceable role 
in maintaining grid reliability.
    The topic of today's hearing is critical to me because 
approximately 85% of LVE's power generation comes from hydropower. 
While most of this power is federal hydropower marketed by the 
Bonneville Power Administration, LVE operates two low-impact hydro 
facilities at Strawberry and Swift and is exploring additional power 
generation at another existing dam in our area.
    One of the often-underappreciated strengths of hydropower is its 
operational versatility. Hydropower facilities have black start 
capability, meaning they can restore electricity to the grid in case of 
a total system shutdown, without requiring an external power source. 
This makes hydropower essential for national security and grid 
resilience. In addition, hydropower reservoirs provide an inherent form 
of energy storage. Water stored at elevation is potential energy that 
can be converted to electricity instantly, allowing these plants to 
ramp generation up or down to meet real-time demand rapidly. In fact, 
in periods of peak demand, many hydropower facilities can temporarily 
exceed their average or ``base'' output, sometimes significantly, for 
short durations to meet heightened or unexpected demands. This 
flexibility is indispensable as we add more intermittent wind and solar 
to the grid. It also stands as a quick-response defense should other 
generating sources experience unexpected shutdowns--hydro is capable of 
picking up that slack.
    Hydropower also plays an integral role in providing frequency and 
voltage regulation, which helps keep the grid stable during sudden 
shifts in generation or load. Hydropower units can serve as a backup 
power supply which can respond within seconds to changes in demand, 
making them ideal for supporting grid reliability under dynamic 
conditions. Moreover, these hydro facilities are long-lived and 
durable; many have operated reliably for a century and are less 
vulnerable to cyberattacks or fuel supply disruptions that can be 
problematic for fossil-fueled plants.
    As the nation wrestles with increasing electricity demands, it is 
crucial for Congress to recognize that hydropower is one of the only 
clean energy resources that offers both reliability and flexibility at 
scale. Without hydropower's stabilizing influence, integration of 
variable resources like wind and solar will be more expensive, less 
efficient, and more reliant on fossil fuel backup. The Columbia River 
System is essential to achieving a clean, secure, and affordable energy 
future. That's why it is often referred to as the backbone of our 
energy system in the West.
Federal Hydropower: A Critical National Asset
    The Power Marketing Administrations (PMAs) conceptually were 
established during the New Deal era to bring electricity to rural and 
underserved parts of the country that investor-owned utilities had 
largely ignored. These agencies helped electrify America by harnessing 
federally built hydropower projects using local labor forces. When 
these projects became operational, they immediately made low-cost 
energy available to local, public, and cooperative utilities across a 
vast territory, changing citizens' lives overnight. The basic concept 
known as ``preference'' for communities served by federal power came 
from the view that rivers are a public asset and therefore, the power 
generated from them ought to be sold to not-for-profit utilities. The 
Bonneville Power Administration (BPA), created in 1937, was 
instrumental in electrifying America. It delivered power from the 
Columbia River system to communities across Washington, Oregon, Idaho, 
and parts of Montana, Nevada, and Wyoming--fueling rural development, 
job creation, and industrial growth. In doing so, BPA and its sister 
PMAs expanded access to electricity and helped establish the foundation 
for the nation's public power sector.
    Today, BPA remains a vital force in the West, marketing power from 
31 federal hydro projects and one nuclear power plant to over 140 
public power customers, including municipalities, cooperatives, and 
tribal utilities. BPA also owns and operates a vast 15,000-mile high-
voltage transmission network that enables regional energy reliability 
and the integration of renewables. The development of this critical 
infrastructure we entirely self-financed and did not rely on annual 
congressional appropriations. Ratepayers cover BPA's operating costs, 
capital investments, and environmental responsibilities through its 
power and transmission sales revenues. Stated more plainly, BPA 
ratepayers--not taxpayers--fund its workforce and programs. This self-
funding model ensures that BPA operates efficiently and with financial 
discipline while delivering immense public value without burdening the 
federal budget. BPA and its utility customers make money for the U.S. 
Treasury by paying off the investment originally made in the system, 
with interest, and has done so annually for 41 years. The most recent 
payment, for fiscal year 2024, was $792 million. This amount included 
$508 million in principal and $231.9 million in interest. Additionally, 
$52 million covered other costs, such as irrigation assistance payments 
that BPA provides to help irrigators repay their share of certain 
Bureau of Reclamation projects.
    Because of this self-pay structure, staffing reductions at BPA and 
the other PMAs do not yield federal taxpayer savings. Instead, they 
impact the BPA's ability to meet its statutory requirements to provide 
reliable service, maintain grid infrastructure, implement fish and 
wildlife mitigation programs, and carry out their public mission. We 
share the Trump Administration's commitment to advancing American 
energy dominance and appreciate the emphasis on enhancing grid 
reliability and keeping energy affordable for all Americans. As the 
Administration seeks to streamline permitting and accelerate 
infrastructure development, the PMA workforce remains essential to 
managing federal multi-purpose project expansions that drive energy 
growth and enhance system resilience. Preserving electric reliability 
depends on avoiding unintended consequences that could undermine these 
goals, like delays in transmission development, underinvestment in 
maintenance and modernization, and a loss of institutional knowledge 
critical to managing complex hydro systems. Protecting the capacity and 
expertise of BPA is not a matter of government spending--it's a matter 
of good governance, strategic planning, and energy security.
Investment in Fish Recovery
    LVE takes our commitment to stewardship of the land and water very 
seriously. The Columbia River system is not just a power source but a 
living river with cultural and ecological significance. The federal 
government and BPA ratepayers have invested billions in fish recovery, 
habitat restoration, hatcheries, and dam modifications to support 
salmon and other species.
    Approximately 25% of our power bill goes to support fish 
mitigation. These efforts are making a difference.
    The Public Power Council (PPC), representing consumer-owned 
utilities across the Pacific Northwest, has highlighted significant 
developments in 2024 regarding salmon and steelhead returns in the 
Columbia River Basin. Notably, the region experienced a remarkable 
sockeye salmon run, with nearly 750,000 fish counted in the Columbia 
River alone--a substantial increase compared to previous years. In 
total, the number of salmon returning to the Columbia and Snake rivers 
has more than tripled since the first federal dams were built on these 
rivers.
    While we are committed to supporting salmon recovery, it is 
essential to scrutinize the assumptions and methodologies underlying 
recent federal guidance, particularly the NOAA Fisheries `Rebuilding' 
Report. This report presents a narrow and overly deterministic view of 
the region's salmon recovery options. The report ignores prior NOAA 
science, making a 180 degree turn to largely presume breaching the 
Lower Snake River dams is the only viable path to rebuilding salmon 
populations, without scientifically reliable data or analyses to back 
up its claims. Significant contributing factors such as ocean 
conditions, habitat degradation, predation, and climate change were not 
considered. Additionally, the report does not sufficiently address the 
energy, economic, and environmental trade-offs associated with dam 
removal, nor does it reflect the substantial investments and measurable 
progress already made through existing mitigation and restoration 
efforts. The previous Trump Administration completed a resource--
intensive Environmental Impact Statement and NOAA Biological Opinion on 
the Lower Snake River Dams in 2020. These studies concluded that dam 
breaching is not a viable option, and that it would result in severe 
disruption to the power supply of the region. By abandoning its 
previous scientific principles, the NOAA report does not represent the 
collaborative, science-based, and regionally inclusive approach 
necessary for sustainable salmon recovery and long-term energy 
reliability.
    The positive trends observed in 2024 demonstrate that meaningful 
progress in fish and wildlife conservation is achievable with sustained 
commitment and collaboration among federal agencies, states, tribes, 
and public power utilities. We must continue this work with a balanced, 
science-based approach that protects both the river's ecosystem and the 
lifeline it provides to millions of people. Collaborative, regionally 
supported solutions that integrate tribal perspectives, environmental 
stewardship, and system reliability should be the foundation of our 
path forward.
12/14 Agreement
    As we look toward future challenges and consumer needs, it is vital 
that all stakeholders--including tribes, public power utilities, 
states, and federal agencies--work together to achieve balanced and 
lasting solutions. However, the recent Memorandum of Understanding 
announced on December 14, 2023, between the federal government, 
nongovernmental organizations, and the six sovereigns--comprising the 
States of Oregon and Washington and four Native American tribes--raises 
serious concerns regarding process, equity, and long-term impacts on 
the energy and economic stability of the region.
    The agreement, reached largely behind closed doors and ignoring 
input from public power customers, utilities, agricultural communities, 
river users and other impacted stakeholders, outlines a federal 
commitment to support a path toward breaching the four Lower Snake 
River dams, citing the NOAA `Rebuilding' report. The agreement pauses 
the ongoing litigation at the Federal District Court level in which 
nongovernmental organizations partnered with tribal nations to sue the 
federal government under the Endangered Species Act. The agreement to 
pause the litigation also required BPA to use ratepayer funds to pay 
$100 million to the six sovereigns for fish restoration and $200 
million to U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services for hatchery modernization, 
upgrades and maintenance. An additional $200 million of BPA ratepayer 
funds were dedicated to studying the reintroduction of specific salmon 
stocks in the upper Columbia River and methods to increase their 
abundance. Finally, the agreement required various studies that 
contemplate dam removal and building ``replacement'' intermittent power 
projects.
    The language and accompanying commitments to study dam replacement 
and fund mitigation programs signal an intent to prepare for dam 
breaching by systematically dismantling the dams' operational efficacy 
and economic viability. This has introduced tremendous uncertainty for 
utilities and BPA customers across the region, many of whom rely 
heavily on the clean, affordable, and dispatchable energy these dams 
provide. Many in our region believe this agreement drove a wedge 
between regional stakeholders and took us many steps backwards from a 
workable compromise.
    The Lower Snake River dams are not marginal assets--they represent 
approximately 3,000 average megawatts of nameplate, emissions-free, 
flexible power, critical black start capability, and seasonal storage. 
Removing them would compromise grid reliability, increase energy 
prices, and place additional strain on already congested transmission 
corridors. Dam removal would also displace barge transportation of 
agricultural goods, increase transportation costs, put more trucks on 
road, increase emissions, and threaten livelihoods in inland 
communities, including farmers operating on already razor-thin margins.
    The lack of comprehensive and inclusive dialogue makes this 
agreement especially problematic. Public power utilities, customers, 
and funders of BPA's fish and wildlife mitigation programs were not 
meaningfully consulted before the agreement was announced. Neither were 
ratepayers, agricultural stakeholders, rural economic developers, or 
many tribal governments outside the four parties involved. The absence 
of transparency undermines public trust and, again, creates division 
rather than the unity we need to achieve real, durable solutions.
    We fully support investing in salmon recovery, but we believe these 
goals can and must be pursued in a way that maintains energy 
reliability and protects the broader public interest. Regional 
solutions must be inclusive, science-based, and grounded in a complete 
understanding of trade-offs and alternatives, not driven by political 
agreements that preempt necessary debate.
    In closing, the Columbia River System and the Bonneville Power 
Administration are models of multipurpose public infrastructure. They 
deliver enormous value--clean energy, flood protection, navigation, 
agriculture, and recreation--while helping stabilize energy prices and 
support grid resilience. As Congress considers the next phase of 
infrastructure investment and energy policy, I urge you to reinforce 
and modernize what is working, protect the integrity of our federal 
hydropower system, and ensure BPA has the tools and financial 
flexibility it needs to continue serving its public service mission.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify. I welcome your questions.

                                 ______
                                 

    Ms. Hageman. Thank you, Mr. Webb. I now recognize Ms. 
Bushman for 5 minutes.

  STATEMENT OF MICHELLE BUSHMAN, DEPUTY DIRECTOR AND GENERAL 
      COUNSEL, WESTERN STATES WATER COUNCIL, MURRAY, UTAH

    Ms. Bushman. Chairman Hageman and Ranking Member Hoyle, the 
Western States Water Council is a bipartisan government entity 
created by the Western governors. Our mission is to ensure that 
the West has an adequate, secure, and sustainable supply of 
water of suitable quality to meet its diverse economic and 
environmental needs now and in the future.
    The Council has long supported Federal actions to authorize 
hydropower projects that enhance our electric generation 
capacity while appropriately protecting environmental resources 
and respecting States' Clean Water Act section 401 
certification authority, as well as States' authority over 
water allocation, the obligations of interstate compacts, and 
the rights and preferences of existing water and power users.
    The potential exists for further development of hydropower, 
including upgrading existing generators, developing small hydro 
and the power potential from low head hydro on existing man-
made conduits and canals, and development of tidal power energy 
systems. Such development on existing infrastructure can often 
be undertaken with little impact on environmental and 
ecological resources. Permitting requirements may be 
appropriately minimized and streamlined to promote reasonable 
development while avoiding unnecessary costs.
    Water is often a necessary component of energy development 
and production, which can present significant challenges in 
States where water resources are already scarce. Similarly, 
water management can be energy intensive, including 
desalination, recycling, and reuse of water resources. An 
integrated approach to water and energy is necessary to achieve 
a thriving and sustainable future for the West.
    The West depends on an intricate system of infrastructure 
financed and maintained under a complex network of State, 
tribal, local, private, and Federal ownership. Federal dams, 
operated and maintained by the Bureau of Reclamation, the Army 
Corps of Engineers, and the Natural Resources Conservation 
Service, have largely exceeded their design life, with an 
estimated $50 billion in needed repairs. The Council supports 
Federal actions to provide stable and continuous funding 
streams, and a coordination of State and Federal efforts to 
strengthen existing dam safety programs.
    Many of our rural communities are struggling to meet 
existing and future water supply needs. These small systems, 
serving under 10,000 people, face limited technical expertise, 
sometimes contaminated water supplies, and lack of access to 
alternative water supplies. Regionalization of shareable 
technical, financial, and managerial resources across multiple 
small systems may present opportunities for small systems to 
make meaningful improvements. The Council supports the use of 
the Bureau of Reclamation's Rural Water Program to identify 
smaller-scale opportunities for small public water supply 
systems.
    Under the Reclamation Act of 1902, the Reclamation Fund was 
envisioned as the principal means for financing future Federal 
Western water and power projects with revenues from Western 
resources. The unobligated balance of the Reclamation Fund 
continues to grow and is expected to exceed $25 billion. 
However, the fund receipts are mostly spent elsewhere, contrary 
to Congress's original intent. The Council recommends that 
Congress investigate the advantages of converting the 
Reclamation Fund from a special account to a true revolving 
trust fund, with annual receipts to be appropriated for 
authorized purposes in the year following their deposit.
    The Council has long supported the negotiated resolution of 
Indian water rights claims, which can achieve the final 
determination of unquantified reserved water rates for Tribes 
in a manner that is least disruptive to existing non-tribal 
water uses with younger priority dates. This leads to greater 
water security across the West and an increased ability to plan 
for the future. These settlements have a regional impact and 
are not and should not be considered earmarks or community 
projects. The Council urges Congress to expand opportunities to 
provide funding for negotiated settlements and to ensure that 
authorized settlements will be funded.
    Sound decision-making for water resource management 
requires accurate and timely data on precipitation, soil 
moisture, snow water content, droughts, and more. Water 
droughts and wildfires do not stop at State or tribal borders. 
Federal data at regional scales forms an integral component of 
our capacity to make meaningful and nuanced decisions about 
limited water resources. Recent Federal layoffs, massive staff 
reductions, and the closure of local Federal agency offices 
across the West have created uncertainty about the future of 
Federal support for water management and related disaster 
mitigation.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Bushman follows:]
  Prepared Statement of Michelle Bushman, Deputy Director and General 
              Counsel for the Western States Water Council

    My name is Michelle Bushman, and I am the Deputy Director and 
General Counsel for the Western States Water Council (WSWC), a bi-
partisan government entity created by Western Governors in 1965, 
representing 18 states. Our members are appointed by and serve at the 
pleasure of their respective Governors, advising them on water policy 
issues, working closely with the Western Governors' Association (WGA). 
Our mission is to ensure that the West has an adequate, secure, and 
sustainable supply of water of suitable quality to meet its diverse 
economic and environmental needs now and in the future.
    Water is an increasingly scarce and precious resource and should 
continue to be a public policy priority. Western States have and will 
continue to face unique hydrologic, legal and infrastructure 
challenges. Population growth, competing economic and ecological 
demands, and changing social values have stressed surface and 
groundwater supplies in many areas. This has increased the number and 
complexity of conflicts among users and uses. A secure water future is 
becoming more costly and increasingly uncertain given our unpredictable 
climate, aging and often inadequate infrastructure, data limitations 
regarding water supplies and demands, competing or poorly defined water 
rights, and a constantly evolving regulatory landscape. Effectively 
addressing these challenges will require stronger collaboration and 
cooperation that transcends political and geographic boundaries between 
states, federal agencies, tribes, and local communities.
State Water Authority
    Western states have primary authority and responsibility for the 
appropriation, allocation, development, conservation and protection of 
water resources, both groundwater and surface water, including 
protection of water quality, instream flows and aquatic species, while 
acknowledging international treaties, interstate agreements, and 
judicial decrees. States are primarily responsible and accountable for 
their own water development, management, and protection challenges, and 
are in the best position to identify, evaluate, and prioritize their 
needs and plan and implement strategies to meet those needs. Each 
Western State has developed comprehensive systems for the 
appropriation, use and distribution of water tailored to its unique 
physiographic, hydrologic and climatic conditions found within that 
state.
    Congress has historically deferred to state water law as embodied 
in Section 8 of the Reclamation Act, Section 10 of the Federal Power 
Act, Section 101(g) and 101(b) of the Clean Water Act, and myriad other 
statutes. Federal deference to state water law is based on sound 
principles for the protection of private property rights and the 
collective public interest in managing our water resources and the 
environment. Western states value their partnerships with federal 
agencies as they operate under this established legal framework.
    Federal water planning, policy development, regulation, protection, 
and management must recognize, defer to, and support state water laws, 
plans, policies, programs, water rights administration, adjudication 
and regulation, compacts and settlements. Rather than attempt to 
dictate water policy, the federal government should engage states early 
in meaningful consultation and contribute funding to support 
implementation of state water planning and management, thus avoiding, 
or at least minimizing, the need for federal regulatory mandates.
Hydropower
    The WSWC has long supported federal legislative and administrative 
actions to authorize and implement reasonable hydropower projects and 
programs that enhance our electric generation capacity and promote 
economic development, through efficient permitting processes, while 
appropriately protecting environmental resources and respecting States' 
Clean Water Act Sec. 401 certification authority, States' authority 
over water allocation within their borders, the obligations of 
interstate compacts, and the rights and preferences of existing water 
and power users.
    Hydropower is a clean, efficient source of energy that is a vital 
part of meeting our present and future energy demands. It represents 
about 27% of total renewable electricity generation, with approximately 
103.4 gigawatts of capacity and nearly 5.7% of total electricity 
generation. The potential exists for further public and private 
development of hydropower, including upgrading existing generators, 
developing small hydro and the power potential from low-head hydro on 
existing man-made conduits and canals, development of tidal power 
energy systems, as well as hydroelectric pumped storage projects. Aside 
from projects requiring review by the Federal Regulatory Commission 
(FERC), such development can often be undertaken with little impact on 
environmental and ecological resources, requiring minimal further 
environmental review. Permitting requirements may be appropriately 
minimized and streamlined to promote reasonable development while 
avoiding unnecessary costs.
    WSWC supports the development and implementation of appropriate 
energy and water conservation programs at all levels to minimize 
demands placed on our natural resources and ecosystems.
Energy-Water Nexus
    The West enjoys diverse and abundant renewable and non-renewable 
energy resources. Water is often a necessary component of energy 
development and production, which can present significant challenges in 
States where water resources are already scarce. Similarly, water 
management can be energy intensive, including the extraction or 
movement of water, or desalination, recycling, and reuse of water 
resources. An integrated approach to water and energy resource 
planning, development, diversification, management and protection is 
necessary to achieve a thriving and sustainable future for the West. 
This includes integrating water and energy policies to maximize 
effectiveness and efficiencies; supporting research and gathering data 
to improve our understanding of water-energy supplies and demands; 
ensuring that decisions related to the siting, construction, and 
operation of water and energy development projects include an 
evaluation and appropriate consideration of the interrelated impacts of 
such development; and that the use of alternative cooling technologies 
or other energy-related options are tailored to the availability of 
water and the related opportunity costs of other water uses.
Reclamation Fund
    Under the Reclamation Act of 1902, the Reclamation Fund was 
envisioned as the principal means for financing federal western water 
and power projects with revenues from western resources. Reclamation 
Fund receipts are largely derived from water and power sales, project 
repayments, and receipts from public land sales and leases, as well as 
oil and mineral leasing and related royalties, from western lands 
adjacent to rural and tribal communities. The unobligated balance of 
the Reclamation Fund continues to grow and is expected to exceed 
$25.2B. However, these receipts are only available for expenditure 
pursuant to annual appropriation acts, and the fund receipts are mostly 
spent elsewhere contrary to Congress' original intent.
    WSWC recommends that Congress investigate the advantages of 
converting the Reclamation Fund from a special account to a true 
revolving trust fund with annual receipts to be appropriated for 
authorized purposes in the year following their deposit (similar to 
some other federal authorities and trust accounts).
WestFAST
    The Western States Federal Agency Support Team (WestFAST) was 
formally organized in 2008 in response to the Western Governors' 
Association's recommendation to facilitate correlation of federal 
activities and to develop and enhance collaborative partnerships among 
state and federal agencies working on priority water-resource issues. 
Today, WestFAST is a collaboration of more than 16 federal agencies 
with water management responsibilities in the West.
    WestFAST works closely with the Western States Water Council 
striving to accomplish effective cooperation among western states, and 
their partners, in the understanding, conservation, development and 
management of water resources. The WestFAST federal agencies form a 
dynamic, flexible team that provides the opportunity for interaction 
initiated by WSWC, individual states, or the federal government. 
WestFAST supports a continued commitment on the part of federal and 
state organizations to work with local, tribal, and other stakeholders 
to improve the effectiveness of collaboration and seek solutions to 
water issues across Western States. Federal layoffs, massive staff 
reductions, and the closure of local federal agency offices across the 
West, have created uncertainty about the future of federal support for 
water management and related disaster mitigation.
Water Data
    All levels of government must prioritize the collection, analysis 
and open sharing of reliable data regarding water availability, 
quality, and usage given its importance to research for sound science 
and data driven decisionmaking. This includes actions related to 
hydropower development and Forecast Informed Reservoir Operations 
(FIRO). Sound decisionmaking for water resource management requires 
accurate and timely data on precipitation, streamflow, 
evapotranspiration, soil moisture, snow depth, snow water content, 
droughts, and water quality. In addition to state, tribal, and local 
data, many federal programs provide critical data.
    For example, the U.S. Geological Survey's (USGS) Groundwater and 
Streamflow Information Program (GWSIP) and National Streamflow Network 
provide data on water supply availability and water levels. Landsat 
thermal data is archived and distributed by the USGS. The former 
National Hydrography Dataset (NHD) and 3D Hydrography Program (3DHP) 
provide map locations of water features and streamgages. The National 
Water Information System (NWIS) provides surface water data.
    The U.S. Department of Agriculture's (USDA) Natural Resources 
Conservation Service (NRCS) provides water supply data through the Snow 
Survey and Water Supply Forecasting Program, based primarily on data 
from SNOTEL weather stations that measure snowpack through winter and 
early spring. The National Water and Climate Center (NWCC) provides 
soil moisture data through the Soil and Climate Analysis Network 
(SCAN). The USDA's National Agriculture Imagery Program (NAIP) is used 
in water right transactions (e.g., water right transfers, instream 
leases) to confirm or support assertions of beneficial use of water on 
subject lands.
    The National Atmospheric and Space Administration (NASA) and its 
water-related missions provide remotely-sensed data, and WGA has 
specifically expressed support for the Landsat program and its use of 
thermal infrared imagery for monitoring water use.
    The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's (NOAA) 
National Weather Service, Climate Programs Office, Office of 
Atmospheric Research (OAR), National Environmental Satellite Data and 
Information Service (NESDIS), National Centers for Environmental 
Information (NCEI), and National Integrated Drought Information System 
(NIDIS), another program specifically supported by WGA, all conduct 
research and provide forecasting data, supporting water management and 
preparation for the extremes of drought and flooding.
    The Bureau of Reclamation's (USBR) Agrimet system is an 
agricultural weather station network that collects site-specific data 
that, among other things, is often used to ground truth and calibrate 
remotely sensed satellite data. It also provides data for improving 
agricultural water planning and water use efficiency, conserving water, 
improving crop yields, reducing pesticide and fertilizer application, 
and reducing energy costs for growers.
    The Environmental Protection Agency's National Environmental 
Information Exchange Network (NEIEN) facilitates environmental data 
sharing among state, federal, tribal, and local governments to improve 
timeliness for decisionmaking.
    Many of these programs operate very efficiently on lean budgets, 
yielding public safety and water supply benefits much greater than the 
cost of their operation. WSWC recently asked our Western states how 
they are using some of these federal datasets. While not all of these 
responses will be specifically relevant to this Subcommittee, nor is 
this an exhaustive list, the complexity of the responses below 
underscores the many critical roles that federal data play in water 
management across the West:
    California has a long history of collecting its own data to meet 
its water needs, but also relies on federal data to make informed water 
management decisions. Following the 2016 Open and Transparent Water 
Data Act, California's Department of Water Resources created an 
integrated water data platform, which includes water and ecological 
data related to California water supply and management held by USBR, 
USGS, NOAA, U.S. Forest Service, and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife 
Service. The NWS watches and warnings support emergency responders in 
preparing to issue evacuation warnings and orders, such as the high 
wind and extreme fire risk warnings leading up to and through the 
recent 2025 LA fires, and the 2023 flood warnings during the 
atmospheric river events prior to the breach of levees on the Pajaro 
River. The recent loss of federal employees at USBR has created some 
difficulty for state staff working on permits.
    Colorado's Water Conservation Board uses NRCS SNOTEL and streamgage 
data to conserve, develop, protect, and manage Colorado's water. Many 
federal data programs are even more beneficial in the long term 
(decadal scale) as they provide robust statistical information through 
variable climate conditions. Discontinuing these data programs can 
disrupt the long-term benefits.
    Kansas uses USGS streamgage data for water rights administration, 
and reservoir data for reservoir operations. Landsat and OpenET data 
provide information for irrigated acreage analysis. They use USGS Real 
Time Water Quality Sensors to monitor ambient water quality and for 
tracking plumes and relating pollutant levels to stream flows. USACE 
and USBR reservoir data enables them to manage reservoir release 
decisions for mitigating instream water quality impacts from harmful 
algal blooms (HABs). USACE reservoir data provides information on 
drought or low flow operations and informs interstate water compact 
compliance. USACE Missouri River data and projections help determine 
the impacts to Kansas reservoir operations. USACE water quality data 
supplement state data for TMDL analysis and development. EPA water 
quality data supplements state data for water quality planning and 
evaluation. The NOAA-NIDIS drought monitor is used to determine 
gubernatorial declarations of drought emergencies. The USDA Risk 
Management Agency (RMA) supports the PRISM project that Kansas uses to 
update the Republican River Compact Administration groundwater model, 
and to do other historical analyses with its gridded precipitation and 
temperature data.
    Idaho's Department of Water Resources relies extensively on the 
USGS stream gaging program for water resource management, to carry out 
the priority administration of surface water (Snake River, Bear River, 
Big Lost River, Big Wood River, Payette River, and Upper Salmon River), 
for dam operations (Priest Lake Outlet), and to ensure compliance with 
interstate compacts (Upper Snake and Bear River) and tribal water 
rights settlements (Nez Perce and Shoshone--Bannock). Idaho also relies 
on the USGS Landsat program for the remote sensing of 
evapotranspiration data across the Snake River Plain and tributary 
basins. Landsat data is used to map irrigated lands and to calculate 
data needed both annually and in real-time to carry out conjunctive 
surface and groundwater administration; to calibrate and validate 
groundwater models; to evaluate and approve new water appropriations 
via permitting, licensing, transfers, and water supply bank 
transactions; and to recommend historical water use in adjudication 
processes. Idaho relies on NRCS SNOTEL data for water supply 
forecasting, tracking the state's water resources, and informing 
management decisions. These data allow IDWR and water users to plan for 
potential water shortages. SNOTEL forecasts allow Idaho to maintain 
statutorily prescribed water levels in Priest Lake, and to determine 
whether summer flows will meet the hydropower minimum streamflow 
requirements in the Swan Falls Settlement Agreement. The Idaho NRCS 
office manages 119 of the 900 national SNOTEL sites. The NRCS State 
Snow offices have 27 of 71 positions vacant, and the Idaho office has 4 
of 10 positions vacant due to recent federal terminations, threatening 
SNOTEL network maintenance and forecasting capabilities.
    Montana's Department of Natural Resources and Conservation relies 
on several federal water datasets to actively manage the water 
resources. As a headwaters state, Montan relies heavily on streamgage 
data, SNOTEL data, and weather data that are used daily during the 
winter and spring to forecast anticipated runoff and water availability 
for their state reservoir management, flood risk assessment, and water 
compact agreements including international, interstate, tribal and 
federal compacts.
    New Mexico heavily relies on water data developed by or in 
consultation with federal agencies for several different purposes 
collaboratively integrates several sources of federal and non-federal 
water data under the authority of New Mexico's Water Data Act, NMSA 72-
4B-1, et seq.. New Mexico and other states rely on federal water data 
to track reservoir levels, gauging and stream flow measurements, and 
forecasts for water management operations in intrastate and interstate 
basins. For example, in connection with the current severe drought 
conditions, New Mexico has utilized the NRCS monthly SNOTEL data and 
current and historic precipitation data, NOAA monthly soil moisture 
measurements, NIDIS interactive drought maps, and the U.S. Drought 
Monitor, and Climate Assessment for the Southwest (CLIMAS), an 
interdisciplinary NOAA program that is a collaboration between the 
University of Arizona and New Mexico State University. Federal water 
data is also useful in connection with implementation of the technical 
elements of interstate and Indian Water Rights Settlement Agreements. 
Federal water data also has been utilized recently in New Mexico in 
connection with coordinated responses across several agencies to 
flooding and channel capacity constraints.
    In Nevada, the NRCS water supply forecasts, based primarily on 
SNOTEL data, are the principal indicator used by irrigators in the 
Walker River Basin to set pumping thresholds to prevent chronic 
groundwater depletions. Such local efforts to manage groundwater use 
for the benefit of the community helps prevent the need for state-
mandated curtailments of water rights by priority date. During record-
breaking precipitation in the winter and spring of 2023, Nevada relied 
on those monthly forecasts to notify dam owners of potential runoff 
volumes that could exceed dam spillway capacity. They relied on NOAA 
weather predictions to determine flood control reservoir releases 
during a near-failure event at the Echo Canyon Dam in 2023; two of the 
three subsurface grade check structures in the downstream outlet 
channel were breached by headcutting, and the third and final structure 
held up. USDA's RMA PRISM Climate Data is an extremely valuable gridded 
geodatabase to estimate climate parameters in the many remote regions 
of Nevada where there is little ground-based weather data. It is 
commonly used for hydrologic modeling to estimate water budgets and 
groundwater availability. They widely rely on the U.S. Drought Monitor 
to gauge drought severity, which is easily communicated and often 
drives water conservation efforts at the local level.
    North Dakota relies heavily on precipitation data provided through 
NOAA and NRCS. NOAA's Atlas 14 program was a gargantuan shift on the 
understanding of precipitation patterns and statistical probability of 
those patterns. The recent development of Atlas 15, a spatially 
continuous national precipitation frequency atlas, is expected to be an 
equivalent leap forward in understanding when, where, and how much 
precipitation is to be expected. NRCS precipitation distribution 
publications, such as Technical Papers 40 (1961) and 49 (1964) (then-
U.S. Soil Conservation Service) help in the construction of water-
related infrastructure. Data from Atlas 15 will help North Dakota to 
ensure that its water infrastructure projects are designed accurately 
and efficiently, making the most efficient use of taxpayer dollars.
    Oregon uses federal data for almost all major functions for 
characterizing and managing surface and groundwater, including water 
distribution, forecasting, monitoring, modeling, allocation, 
regulation, management, public safety, water right transactions 
(permits, transfers, evidence of beneficial use, forfeiture of non-
use), reservoir monitoring, basin studies, municipal water supply 
planning, agricultural water supply needs, and meeting the needs of 
ESA-listed aquatic species. Data include USGS NWIS groundwater 
monitoring network, streamgage network, water chemistry, and maps; USBR 
Hydromet and Agrimet; U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service threatened and 
endangered aquatic species lists; NOAA precipitation data; USDA soil 
surveys, NRCS snow surveys, CREP-enrolled lands, and Ag Census.
    South Dakota's Department of Agriculture and Natural Resources 
relies heavily on USGS stream flow, Mesonet datasets, and other USGS 
and NOAA publications when investigating water right or water quality 
permit applications. These data are also used during droughts, floods, 
responding to pollution spill situations, and to verify hydrologic 
modeling for dam spillway sizing. On the water quality side, streamflow 
gages are critical in determining allowable pollutant discharges. 
Federal water chemistry data impact water quality permit decisions. 
Mesonet data help inform their beneficial use analysis of waterbodies. 
On the water resources side, streamflow data informs decisions about 
bypass requirements and water shut off orders. The state dam safety 
program is waiting for NOAA to complete its updated probable maximum 
precipitation (PMP) study (last completed in the 1970s) to provide 
updated numbers for designing and rehabilitating dams. NOAA's Atlas 15 
is needed to update the National Precipitation Frequency Standards for 
designing infrastructure to the best available information and current 
storm data.
    Utah's Department of Natural Resources relies heavily on USGS 
streamgages for accurate real-time flow measurements and historical 
data that inform decisions about diversions, withdrawals and compliance 
for the fair and transparent allocation of water rights. Streamflow 
data help optimize reservoir operations, groundwater management, and 
other water projects. This can lead to more efficient water use, 
reduced conflicts, and better environmental outcomes. Accurate data 
allows for complex Great Salt Lake management, from flow modeling to 
salinity forecasting. Streamgage data supports early warning systems 
and informs emergency response strategies. Having access to near real-
time conditions aids in flood forecasting, drought planning, informing 
agricultural decisions, minimizing risks to communities and 
infrastructure, and supports recreational and ecological needs. 
Historical records enable trend analysis, helping detect changes in 
flow regimes over time, which helps with modeling and state planning 
efforts. Such insights guide policy development, water resources 
planning, and future infrastructure investments.
    Washington's Department of Ecology relies on NOAA and USGS flood 
forecasts for predicting peak flood elevations, severity, and 
inundation areas days in advance, which helps identify potential road 
closures or evacuations before flood events occur. NOAA's precipitation 
gauges and cameras in wildfire-affected areas help monitor and predict 
post-wildfire debris flows and flood risks, improving responses and 
mitigation efforts. The staff of NRCS's regional Snow Survey and Water 
Supply Forecasting Program has been decimated--only 5 of 12 staff 
remain to cover both Washington and Oregon, and the northwest SNOTEL 
system will not be maintained without sufficient staff, and is expected 
to fail as soon as this summer. The U.S. General Services 
Administration has proposed canceling the lease for the NRCS facility 
that houses the SNOTEL equipment, and listed the vehicles and supplies 
used to maintain the monitoring network as potentially being put up for 
sale as soon as June. Without snowpack data, Ecology will not be able 
to accurately forecast water supplies, and may not be able to issue 
timely drought declarations. This means that farmers and water managers 
will not be able to plan for and mitigate drought impacts. The Bureau 
of Reclamation's determinations regarding Yakima basin water allocation 
rely on NRCS data. Ecology's Office of Chehalis Basin noted that 
without the integrated federal system for collecting, analyzing, and 
reporting data, every aspect of the work they do and fund would be 
impaired or impossible. Their Flood Warning System relies on a 
combination of federal, state, and local funding to build, upgrade, and 
maintain the system. The system includes data from USGS gages, NOAA's 
GOES satellite system, NWS weather forecasts, and NOAA's River Forecast 
Center--all of those elements need to be working and communicating with 
one another for the flood warning system to operate. The system 
provided thousands of residents with advance notice of a major flood 
event in 2022, enabling them to protect lives and property. NIDIS is 
the sole source of collaboration between Washington and other states on 
drought response and resilience. The NIDIS data analysis is in a format 
that is accessible to the public and allows Ecology and other water 
managers to evaluate drought conditions, including the impacts on 
irrigation districts in the Yakima Basin. Ecology is concerned about 
proposed cuts to OAR where NIDIS is housed; the data collected and 
analyzed there is critical to their understanding of and forecasts for 
seasonal climate trends, including drought. USGS gages and historical 
weather data are essential in creating and operating the hydrologic and 
hydraulic models used for reducing flood damage and protecting aquatic 
species, and to assess the potential impact of future infrastructure 
and conveyance improvements.
    Examples of recent billion-dollar disasters in the West include: 
flooding and mudslides, severe weather and wildfires (2023): extensive 
West and Midwest drought, heatwave, and wildfires, as well as severe 
Central weather and North Central and South Central hail (2022); 
Western drought, heatwave and wildfires, with California flooding, as 
well as Central and South Central severe storms and cold wave (2021); 
continued drought, heatwave, wildfires, as well as severe storms and 
hail (2020); Missouri River and northern Great Plains flooding (2019); 
Colorado hail storms (multiple years), drought in the southern Great 
Plains (2018); California and Nevada flooding (2017),;severe multi-year 
drought in California and much of the West (2012-16); Texas and 
Oklahoma flooding (2015); and flooding in Texas resulting from 
Hurricane Harvey (2017); drought across the southern Great Plains 
(2011); Missouri River and northern Great Plains flooding (2011). Such 
disasters are not isolated occurrences in the West and are likely to 
continue.
    WSWC urges Congress to prioritize the appropriation of sufficient 
funds to maintain, modernize, expand, and improve these federal data 
programs, ensuring that they remain accessible to a growing and diffuse 
number of decisionmakers and stakeholders. The erosion or loss of these 
programs and the disruption of data may have significantly adverse 
consequence for our economic and environmental future.
    WSWC further urges Congress to invest in additional research and 
data sharing to help resolve state and regional water problems, 
including support for water resources research institutes and the Water 
Resources Research Act program, transitioning from research to 
operations and technology transfers, forecast informed reservoir 
operations, hydroclimate data collection, and seasonal to subseasonal 
forecasting.
Water Infrastructure
    A secure and sustainable water future will be determined by our 
ability to maintain, replace, expand and make the most efficient use of 
critical water infrastructure. We must preserve and improve existing 
infrastructure, as well as encourage and support innovative water 
supply strategies and new storage options to better balance supplies 
with demands.
    The West depends on an intricate and aging system of weirs, 
diversions, dams, reservoirs, pipelines, aqueducts, pumps, canals, 
laterals, drains, levees, wells, stormwater channels, and water and 
wastewater treatment and hydroelectric power plants. These systems are 
financed and maintained under a complex network of state, tribal, 
local, private, and federal ownership, benefiting a broad segment of 
water users and other stakeholders.
    Aging federal water infrastructure has deteriorated due to 
underfunded and deferred maintenance, repair, and replacement needs. In 
many cases, this infrastructure had exceeded its designed lifespan, 
raising public safety issues. Other authorized federal infrastructure 
projects have not been started or remain incomplete for decades due to 
inconsistent, incremental, or insufficient appropriations; permitting 
and licensing backlogs; and oversight by multiple federal agencies with 
inadequate interagency coordination.
    Maintaining and delivering sufficient supplies of water of suitable 
quality is key to maintaining the West's economic prosperity, meeting 
our environmental needs, and sustaining our quality of life, both now 
and in the future. Appropriate water-related infrastructure investments 
ensure our continued ability to store, manage, conserve, and control 
water during both floods and droughts, as well as protect and treat our 
water resources. Existing and new infrastructure is critical to meet 
drinking water, wastewater treatment, irrigation, hydropower, flood 
control, interstate compact, tribal and international treaty, fish and 
wildlife habitat needs.
    The WSWC supports collaboration and leadership at all levels of 
government and within the private sector to address the nation's 
infrastructure needs, including hydropower. WSWC urges Congress to work 
with the Administration to ensure adequate appropriations for 
constructing, maintaining, and replacing critical federal water 
projects and to assist states and local governments as they address 
their water infrastructure needs. The WSWC encourages Congress to work 
with the Administration and with States to streamline permitting 
processes and coordinate environmental and other regulatory reviews to 
eliminate duplicative procedures. WSWC urges Congress further to 
develop a method of budget scoring that considers the unique timing of 
the costs and benefits of water infrastructure investments and accounts 
for long-term public health and safety, economic and environmental 
benefits, with fair and appropriated discounting.
Rural Water Systems
    Many of our rural communities are struggling to meet existing and 
future water supply needs and compliance with present regulatory 
mandates. Over 90% of the public water supply systems in the United 
States are small systems serving 10,000 or fewer people. These small 
systems face unique challenges, including financial constraints, aging 
infrastructure, limited technical operations and managerial 
administrative expertise, reduced or contaminated water supplies, and 
lack of access to alternative water supplies. Small system 
infrastructure consolidation poses significant challenges, particularly 
for geographically isolated communities. However, regionalization of 
sharable technical, financial, and managerial resources across multiple 
small systems may present opportunities for small systems to make 
meaningful improvements.
    For nearly 20 years, the Bureau of Reclamation's Rural Water 
Program has been focused on the completion of authorized rural water 
projects that have long been needed in Montana, New Mexico, North 
Dakota, and South Dakota. The program is also authorized to work with 
rural communities, states, and tribes to assess potable water supply 
needs, and to undertake additional appraisal investigations or 
feasibility studies for new rural water projects. The WSWC supports the 
use of this program to identify smaller scale opportunities for small 
public water supply systems, including the appropriation of sufficient 
funds directed toward that effort.
    WSWC also supports the work done by USDA Rural Development to bring 
clean, safe drinking water and sanitation to rural communities.
Indian Water Rights Settlements
    WSWC has long supported the negotiated resolution of Indian water 
rights claims, which can achieve the final determination unquantified 
reserved water rights for tribes in a manner that is the least 
disruptive to existing water uses with younger priority dates. This 
leads to greater water security across the West and an increased 
ability to plan for the future. Some advantages of negotiated 
settlements include: (i) the ability to be flexible and to tailor 
solutions to the unique circumstances of each situation; (ii) the 
ability to promote conservation and sound water management practices; 
and (iii) the ability to establish the basis for cooperative 
partnerships between Indian and non-Indian communities. The successful 
resolution of certain claims may require ``physical solutions,'' such 
as development of federal water projects and improved water delivery 
and application techniques. The federal government has trust 
obligations toward tribes, and water rights settlements often involve a 
waiver of some portion of tribal water right claims and breach of trust 
claims that could otherwise result in court-ordered judgments and 
increased costs for federal taxpayers. These settlements have a 
regional impact and are not and should not be considered earmarks or 
community projects. WSWC urges Congress to expand opportunities to 
provide funding for settlements, and to ensure that authorized 
settlements will be funded without a corresponding offset to other 
essential tribal or Department of Interior programs.
    An integrated, collaborative, and grassroots approach to water 
resources management is critical to the environmentally sound and 
efficient use of our water resources. States, federal agencies, tribes, 
and local communities should work together to identify water problems 
and develop optimal solutions at the lowest appropriate level. Striving 
for cooperation rather than litigation, we must recognize and respect 
national, state, regional, local and tribal differences in values 
related to water resources.
    Thank you for the opportunity testify.
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
                                 

    Ms. Hageman. Thank you, Ms. Bushman. I now recognize Mr. 
Haswell for 5 minutes.

    STATEMENT OF JONATHAN HASWELL, CHIEF BUSINESS OFFICER, 
              OCEANWELL LLC, WOODSIDE, CALIFORNIA

    Mr. Haswell. Good morning, Chair Hageman, Ranking Member 
Hoyle, and members of the Committee. On behalf of OceanWell, 
thank you for the opportunity to be here today and to discuss 
advancing water development.
    My name is Jonathan Haswell, and I serve as Chief Operating 
Officer of OceanWell, a water technology company that was born 
and bred in California and whose goal is tackling global water 
scarcity through a novel offshore deep ocean desalination 
system. I am here today because our innovation offers a 
scalable, sustainable way to strengthen U.S. water resilience, 
and presents a modular, faster deploy alternative to 
traditional resource-intensive infrastructure projects.
    In short, technology can and must be part of the modern 
water scarcity toolkit. Producing abundant, affordable, 
environmentally-friendly water at scale is now within reach. 
And perhaps most importantly, with OceanWell, one community's 
water security no longer must come at another community's 
expense. Guilt-free water at large scale is now possible.
    The challenge of water scarcity is not new, and neither are 
the limitations of traditional solutions. Traditional forms of 
desalination have been deployed internationally to bridge water 
gaps, but at a steep cost. High energy consumption, intensive 
chemical pre-treatment, marine life mortality, massive land 
requirements, and the challenge of managing brine discharges, 
these economic and environmental burdens have historically 
limited desalination's use within the United States.
    OceanWell was founded to fundamentally rethink 
desalination, and specifically solve for these costs and impact 
challenges. Like onshore desalination, OceanWell proposes to 
use reverse osmosis technology to separate salts from seawater. 
However, rather than operating from the shore, we relocate the 
process to the deep ocean, approximately 1,500 feet below the 
surface, where naturally occurring hydrostatic pressure 
provides the force needed to drive reverse osmosis without 
energy.
    In this aphotic zone of the ocean, where less than 1 
percent of sunlight penetrates, the water is colder, cleaner, 
and near limitless. As a result, we eliminate the need for 
chemical pre-treatment and avoid the energy costs associated 
with pumping and pressurization onshore.
    OceanWell's modular sub-sea pods each produce 1 million 
gallons per day of fresh, potable supply, and are engineered 
for a 30-year life span. This approach delivers water with 
dramatically lower energy consumption, no marine life 
mortality, no need for large onshore treatment plants, and a 
minimal brine discharge impact.
    OceanWell's modular nature allows for quick capacity growth 
to address the needs of an expanding community. By shifting 
where and how desalination occurs, OceanWell offers a scalable, 
energy-efficient, and responsible solution.
    Recognizing the need to support water-scarce communities in 
the United States, OceanWell is planning to deploy its first 
water farm in Southern California, and is projected to deliver 
approximately 50 million gallons per day of fresh water to the 
region. To advance this effort we have established a workgroup 
of 26 California water agencies led by Las Virgenes Municipal 
Water District.
    Water is foundational to every aspect of America's economy 
and national security. Yet unlike energy or transportation, it 
is often taken for granted. Most people rarely think about 
where their water comes from until it is not there. Water 
security is economic security. It is national security. And it 
demands the same urgency and innovation we apply to every other 
critical infrastructure need and challenge.
    A reliable water supply directly strengthens a community's 
ability to prosper. Moreover, safeguarding water supply 
strengthens national security by protecting military bases, 
ports, and disaster-prone regions. Every storm, wildlife and 
flood elevates the vulnerability of land-based water 
infrastructure. OceanWell's sub-sea water farms operate below 
the surface and have a critical layer of protection.
    Water resources have historically been overlooked for 
investment compared to other essential utilities. We are proud 
to collaborate with public partners such as Las Virgenes 
Municipal Water District, as well as the Bureau of Reclamation 
and the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California. We 
are also fortunate to work with private partners like Kubota 
Corporation and to participate in Imagine H2O's Global 
Innovation Ecosystem and the XPRIZE Water Scarcity Challenge, 
initiatives that recognize and accelerate high-potential 
solutions for global water supply and resilience.
    Layering public and private investment is critical to 
developing, advancing, and deploying next-generation water 
technologies at scale. Congress plays an essential role in this 
effort by incentivizing the development and adoption of 
innovative water technologies, and by strengthening support for 
public-private partnerships that can deliver resilient new 
supplies. OceanWell will continue to work with our public and 
private partners, and together we can create an affordable, 
abundant, reliable source of fresh, guilt-free water.
    Thank you again for having me today, and for your time and 
consideration.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Haswell follows:]
Prepared Statement of Mr. Haswell, Chief Operating Officer of OceanWell

    Good morning, Chair Hageman, Ranking Member Hoyle, and Members of 
the Committee. On behalf of OceanWell, thank you for the opportunity to 
be here today to discuss advancing water development.
    My name is Jonathan Haswell, and I serve as Chief Operating Officer 
of OceanWell--a water technology company, that was born and bred in 
California, and whose goal is tackling global water scarcity through a 
novel offshore, deep-ocean desalination system.
    I'm here today because our innovation offers a scalable, 
sustainable way to strengthen U.S. water resilience--and presents a 
modular, fast-to-deploy alternative to traditional resource-intensive 
infrastructure projects.
    In short: technology can--and must--be part of the modern water 
scarcity toolkit. Producing abundant, affordable, environmentally 
friendly water at scale is now within reach. And perhaps most 
importantly, with OceanWell, one community's water security no longer 
must come at another community's expense. Guilt-free water at large 
scale is possible.
The Problem--Water Scarcity and the Historical Limits of Desalination
    The challenge of water scarcity is not new--and neither are the 
limitations of traditional solutions. Globally, only about 1% of 
Earth's water is drinkable, and nearly half the world's population 
faces water stress today. In the United States, this pressure is felt 
most acutely in the West, where prolonged droughts, shrinking 
reservoirs, population growth, and natural disasters have severely 
strained available supplies.
    Traditional forms of desalination have been deployed 
internationally to bridge water gaps, but at a steep cost: high energy 
consumption, intensive chemical pre-treatment, marine life mortality, 
massive land requirements, and the persistent environmental challenge 
of managing concentrated brine discharges. Traditional plants draw from 
surface-level seawater--warmer, biologically active, and rich in 
organic material--requiring expensive, often chemical-heavy treatment 
to protect membranes and maintain performance. Meanwhile, the need for 
energy-intensive high-pressure pumps has made desalinated water one of 
the costliest potable supplies available. These economic and 
environmental burdens have historically limited desalination's use 
within the United States. Further, traditional infrastructure is built 
to address the capacity needs of today and the predicted population of 
the future, however the numbers do not always pan out exactly as 
initially calculated and can create an issue if the plant's capacity 
cannot be altered. OceanWell's modular, scalable nature allows for 
quick capacity growth to address the needs of an expanding community.
    OceanWell was founded to fundamentally rethink desalination and 
specifically solve for these cost and impact challenges. Like onshore 
desalination, OceanWell proposes to use reverse osmosis technology to 
separate salts from freshwater. Rather than operating from the shore, 
we relocate the process to the deep ocean--approximately 400 meters 
below the surface--where naturally occurring hydrostatic pressure 
provides the force needed to drive reverse osmosis without mechanical 
pumps. In this aphotic zone, where less than 1% of sunlight penetrates, 
the water is colder, cleaner, and limitless. As a result, we eliminate 
the need for chemical pre-treatment and avoid the energy costs 
associated with pumping and pressurization onshore. The 40-foot-long 
OceanWell Pod leverages the naturally occuring hydrostatic pressure of 
the water column above to drive the reverse osmosis process, limiting 
the energy use to the conveyance back to shore rather than the 
treatment.
    OceanWell's modular subsea Pods each produce 1 million gallons per 
day (MGD) of fresh potable supply. Just 50 Pods would be sufficient to 
meet the entire daily water needs of 100,000 households. This approach 
delivers cold, clean water with dramatically lower energy consumption, 
no marine life mortality, no need for a large onshore treatment plant, 
and minimal brine discharge impacts. Each Pod operates for a 30-year 
lifespan and anchors securely to the ocean floor with a small 
environmental footprint.
    By shifting where and how desalination occurs, OceanWell offers a 
scalable, energy--efficient, and responsible solution--exactly the kind 
of new water supply needed to secure the future of the Western United 
States.
Partnership with Las Virgenes Municipal Water District
    Recognizing the urgent need to support water-scarce communities in 
the United States, OceanWell is planning to deploy its first Water Farm 
in Southern California--a region facing some of the nation's most 
critical water challenges.
    To advance this effort, we have established a California work group 
of 26 California water agencies, led by Las Virgenes Municipal Water 
District (LVMWD). LVMWD provides potable water, wastewater treatment, 
recycled water, and biosolids composting services to approximately 
75,000 residents across Agoura Hills, Calabasas, Hidden Hills, Westlake 
Village, and adjacent unincorporated areas of Los Angeles County, 
spanning a service area of 122 square miles. The broader working group 
extends across key districts throughout Southern California, 
representing millions of residents across drought-prone regions.
    LVMWD faces significant water supply challenges due to its limited 
local resources and heavy reliance--approximately 84%--on imported 
water. Severe droughts, including the 2022 drought that caused a 73% 
supply shortage, have compounded these risks. Geological and 
environmental constraints limit groundwater development, making 
innovative solutions like desalination and advanced water recycling not 
just desirable, but essential. LVMWD is already pursuing advanced 
projects such as the Pure Water Project Las Virgenes-Triunfo and is now 
working to pioneer OceanWell's Water Farm technology.
    LVMWD has spearheaded the formation of six Southern California 
public agencies to advance the first OceanWell Water Farm. In addition 
to LVMWD, key partner agencies include: Los Angeles Department of Water 
and Power (LADWP), Calleguas Municipal Water District, Los Angeles 
County Public Works District 29, Burbank Department of Water and Power, 
Upper San Gabriel Valley Municipal Water District, and Santa Clarita 
Valley Water Agency.
    The first Water Farm is projected to deliver 57 million gallons per 
day (MGD) of fresh water to the region--representing a major step 
forward in drought resilience.
    On March 21, 2025, OceanWell and LVMWD successfully deployed a 
prototype Pod into the Las Virgenes Reservoir, which exceeds 100 feet 
in depth and holds approximately 9,500 acre-feet of water. The 
deployment will allow OceanWell to rigorously stress-test its 
filtration systems under real-world conditions as we advance toward 
full-scale operations.
Water Security Is Economic and National Security
    Water is foundational to every aspect of America's economy and 
national defense--yet, unlike energy or transportation, it is often 
taken for granted. Most people rarely think about where their water 
comes from until it is not there. But the reality is clear: reliable 
water supplies are under growing pressure, especially across the 
Western United States.
    Las Virgenes Municipal Water District and its coalition partners 
recognize what many overlook--that securing new, dependable water 
sources is not just a local responsibility; it is a strategic 
imperative. Without reliable water, industries stall, agriculture 
contracts, military readiness is compromised, and communities are left 
vulnerable. Every sector that drives economic strength--from energy to 
manufacturing to technology--depends on stable water supplies.
    Simply put, water security is economic security. It is national 
security. And it demands the same urgency and innovation we apply to 
every other critical infrastructure need and challenge.
    A clean, reliable water supply directly strengthens a community's 
ability to grow--powering industry, agriculture, commerce, and 
household prosperity. Moreover, safeguarding water supplies strengthens 
national security by protecting critical infrastructure like military 
bases, ports, energy producers, manufacturers, mining operations, and 
disaster-prone regions. Natural disasters already cost the United 
States the productive use of an average of 4.7 million acres annually 
from wildfires alone--with most damage concentrated in the West, but 
risks growing nationwide. Every storm, wildfire, and flood elevates the 
vulnerability of land-based water infrastructure--and degrades water 
quality when communities can least afford it.
    OceanWell's subsea Water Farms, operating 400 meters below the 
surface, offer a critical layer of protection. Shielded from surface 
risks, our water farms deliver secure, reliable supply--strengthening 
both local economies and America's broader national security.
    Water resources have historically been overlooked for investment 
compared to other essential utilities. OceanWell is working to change 
that--advancing water supply innovation through strong public-private 
partnerships and global innovation platforms.
    We are proud to collaborate with public partners such as Las 
Virgenes Municipal Water District, as well as the Department of the 
Interior's Bureau of Reclamation, and the Metropolitan Water District 
of Southern California, both of whom have provided key grant support to 
advance our early development. We are also fortunate to work with 
private partners like Kubota Corporation, and to participate in Imagine 
H2O's global innovation ecosystem and the XPRIZE $119m Water Scarcity 
Challenge--initiatives that recognize and accelerate high-potential 
solutions for global water supply and resilience.
    Layering public and private investment is critical to developing, 
advancing, and deploying next-generation water technologies at scale.
    Congress plays an essential role in this effort--by incentivizing 
the development and adoption of innovative water technologies and by 
strengthening support for public-private partnerships that can deliver 
resilient new supplies.
    Additionally, Congress can further accelerate deployment by 
streamlining federal permitting processes to make them more efficient, 
predictable, and aligned with the urgent timelines water-scarce 
communities face.
Conclusion
    One key to strengthening and diversifying water supplies is 
protected, scalable sub-sea technology that will produce clean, cold 
water without causing harm to the ocean. This innovative system will 
continue to advance water security and thereby add to the strength of 
our economic and national security. To accomplish this, OceanWell will 
continue to work with our public and private partners including LVMWD 
and the U.S. Government. Together, we can create an affordable, 
abundant, reliable source of fresh guilt-free water.
    Thank you again for having me today and for your time and 
consideration. I welcome your questions.

                                 ______
                                 

    Ms. Hageman. Thank you, Mr. Haswell, very interesting. I 
have actually been talking about this for quite some time. It 
is imperative that we increase the water supply in California, 
and I think that this has great promise. So thank you.
    Mr. Haswell. Thank you.
    Ms. Hageman. And I now recognize Mr. Sigl for 5 minutes.
    Am I saying your name correctly?
    Mr. Sigl. Yes, that is great.

   STATEMENT OF PATRICK SIGL, DIRECTOR OF WATER AND NATURAL 
      RESOURCES LAW, SALT RIVER PROJECT, PHOENIX, ARIZONA

    Mr. Sigl. Thank you very much, and good morning, Chair 
Hageman, Ranking Member Hoyle, and members of the Subcommittee, 
my name is Patrick Sigl, and I am the Director of Water and 
Natural Resources Law at the Salt River Project. Thank you for 
the opportunity to testify today to provide SRP's perspective 
on advancing Federal water and hydropower development.
    SRP is responsible for the care, operation, and maintenance 
of the Salt River Federal Reclamation Project in central 
Arizona, one of the Nation's first Reclamation projects built 
under the Reclamation Act of 1902. SRP has a 120-year history 
of collaborating with the United States and regional partners 
to develop reliable and affordable water and power resources 
for our growing communities in the desert Southwest. Our 
accomplishments over the years are the legacy of the early 
visionaries, including President Theodore Roosevelt and 
congressional leaders who championed the passage of the 
Reclamation Act for the purpose of developing communities and 
economies in the Western United States.
    SRP was formed in 1903 by a group of farmers who put their 
land up for collateral to contract with the United States to 
pay back the cost of the construction of Roosevelt Dam. Shortly 
after the United States finished building Roosevelt Dam, 
Secretary of the Interior Franklin Lane turned over operations 
to these local farmers. Secretary Lane was a visionary who 
recognized the value of delegating management decisions and 
operations to local interests who are most familiar with on-
the-ground project conditions. He also provided the association 
with the financial resources through the power revenues to get 
the job done.
    Currently, SRP manages seven dams and reservoirs which can 
store approximately 2.3 million acre-feet of water. SRP is the 
largest raw water provider in the Phoenix metropolitan area, 
delivering about 800,000 acre-feet annually to our shareholders 
and contractors. SRP is the largest not-for-profit, community-
based public power provider in the country, with a nameplate 
generation capacity of approximately 15,000 megawatts, 
including a portfolio of sources including hydropower, natural 
gas, baseload coal, nuclear, geothermal, solar, wind, and 
batteries, serving electricity to nearly 3 million people.
    The project was built to address water and power challenges 
in the extreme desert environment, where precipitation can vary 
from year to year, and summer temperatures often exceed 110 
degrees Fahrenheit. The next 100 years are expected to bring 
even greater demands for water and power to the valley. SRP, 
through continued collaboration with the United States and 
regional partners, is developing multiple additions to the 
Reclamation project to meet these challenges for the next 
century. I would like to highlight a couple of those projects 
for you today.
    First, on the power side, our increased energy demand is 
driven in part by rapid expansion of large energy customers 
such as data centers and advanced manufacturing facilities. SRP 
is exploring opportunities to use pumped storage hydropower to 
make intermittent and low-cost renewable resources such as 
solar more reliable. The project would act as a large battery 
and allow SRP to use power generation during the day to pump 
water to the upper reservoir and then release the water in the 
afternoon and evenings to generate hydropower to meet peak 
loads. SRP is uniquely situated with the topography and water 
supply to support the project. The resource could provide up to 
2,000 megawatts of power for 10 hours, enough for up to 500,000 
homes.
    On the water supply side, over the next 100 years the Verde 
River watershed is expected to experience increased 
precipitation variability, resulting in less frequent but 
greater inflows into Bartlett and Horseshoe Reservoirs. 
Currently, these reservoirs lack the capacity to fully capture 
flood flows off the watershed, in part due to the loss of about 
50,000 acre-feet of storage capacity due to sediment 
accumulation since they were built in the 1930s and 1940s.
    In response, SRP, Reclamation, and a group of 23 water 
providers are partnering to complete a Federal feasibility 
study to analyze options to address these challenges. Through 
the Verde Reservoir Sediment Mitigation Project, the partners 
are studying the feasibility of, among other options, enlarging 
Bartlett Dam and Reservoir, which could more than double 
existing capacity, adding 350,000 acre-feet of storage 
capacity, enough to support 1 million American homes.
    In conclusion, SRP has a long history of collaborating with 
the United States and regional partners to develop reliable and 
affordable water and power resources to serve our growing 
communities in the desert Southwest. Such collaboration has 
produced numerous accomplishments over the decades. The support 
of Congress, Federal agencies, and regional partners will be 
key to meeting the challenges of the next century and to 
continue to fulfill the aspirations of the early visionaries of 
the Reclamation program to build strong and resilient 
communities.
    Thank you, Chair Hageman, Ranking Member Hoyle, and members 
of the Subcommittee for the opportunity to testify today. I 
look forward to answering any questions you may have.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Sigl follows:]
 Prepared Statement of Mr. Patrick B. Sigl, Director Water and Natural 
                   Resources Law, Salt River Project

    Chairman Hageman, Ranking Member Hoyle and members of the 
Subcommittee, my name is Patrick Sigl and I am the Director of Water 
and Natural Resources Law at the Salt River Project (SRP). Thank you 
for the opportunity to testify today to provide SRP's perspective on 
advancing federal water and hydropower development. SRP is responsible 
for the care, operation, and maintenance of the Salt River Federal 
Reclamation Project in Central Arizona (Reclamation Project), one of 
the Nation's First reclamation projects authorized and constructed 
under the Reclamation Act of 1902. SRP has a long history of 
collaborating with the United States and regional partners to develop 
reliable and cost-effective water and power resources to our fourishing 
communities in the desert Southwest. SRP is the third largest not-for-
profit community based public power entity in the country, providing 
reliable, affordable, and sustainable electricity to nearly 3,000,000 
people in Arizona. SRP is also the largest raw water provider in the 
Phoenix Metropolitan area. These accomplishments are the legacy of the 
early visionaries including President 
Theodore Roosevelt and Congressional leaders, including those on this 
Committee, who championed the passage of the Reclamation Act for the 
purpose of developing communities in the arid western United States.
I. The Salt River Project: The First 120 years
A. Introduction
    The Salt and Verde Rivers presented significant reliability 
challenges to Salt River Valley farmers in the 1890's. These challenges 
centered around inconsistent weather patterns, periods of drought, 
followed by flashy floods, followed again by drought. An abundance of 
snowmelt and precipitation in the spring could inundate crops and 
destroy diversion works. A subsequent dry period resulted in water 
shortages when water was most needed for irrigation. These early Salt 
River Valley irrigators, along with other western farmers, sought 
assistance from Congress through the establishment of a Reclamation 
Program to build water storage infrastructure, so water could be stored 
when the system produced it, and used when it was needed.
    Recognizing the need, Congress authorized the Secretary of the 
Interior (Secretary) to construct the Salt River Federal Reclamation 
Project as one of the first projects under the Reclamation Act of June 
17, 1902. The Salt River Valley Water Users' Association (Association), 
an Arizona Territorial corporation, was organized by landowners in the 
Salt River Valley to contract with the federal government for the 
construction of Theodore Roosevelt Dam on the Salt River, located some 
80 miles northeast of Phoenix. In 1903, the United States Government 
approved the Salt River reclamation project and agreed to finance and 
build Roosevelt Dam for the Salt River Valley landowners. The dam would 
create storage of water for irrigation of the Salt River Valley lands. 
In exchange for pledging their land as collateral for the federal loans 
to construct Roosevelt Dam, which loans have long since been fully 
repaid, the Salt River Valley landowners received the right to water 
stored behind the dam. The scope of the project was expanded by 
acquiring the Arizona Water Company's canal system and constructing the 
Granite Reef Diversion Dam below the confluence of the Verde and Salt 
rivers. This provided a complete water delivery system from Roosevelt 
Dam to the Salt River Valley farmlands.
    Shortly after passing the Reclamation Act, Congress continued to 
refine the authorities for reclamation projects to ensure their 
success. In 1906, Congress enacted the Townsite Act that authorized the 
Secretary to contract for the sale or lease of power generated by 
federal reclamation projects. The receipts from the power contracts 
would be deposited in the reclamation fund and credited toward the 
repayment of the project from which the power was generated. Then, in 
1914, Congress amended the Reclamation Act to authorize the Secretary 
to transfer to a local water users' association the care, operation, 
and maintenance of all or any part of a federal reclamation project 
works, subject to rules and regulations prescribed by the Secretary.
    Under the direction of Secretary Franklin Lane, the United States 
used these authorities to execute an agreement with the Association 
dated September 6, 1917 (the 1917 Agreement), wherein the United States 
turned over and vested in the Association the authority over and 
responsibility for the care, operation and maintenance of the 
Reclamation Project, including the water storage reservoirs and water 
delivery system, all water rights and power privileges, and the right 
to receive all income from such power privileges arising from its 
operation of the Reclamation Project. Through the 1917 Agreement, the 
United States also conveyed to the Association its standing authorities 
under the 1902 Reclamation Act, the 1906 Townsite Act and the 1914 
Reclamation Extension Act to construct additional Reclamation Project 
works, at its own cost, so long as such works do not impair or diminish 
project efficiency, project adequacy or project purposes. The United 
States continues to hold title to all Reclamation Project facilities 
and maintains a supervisory role and regulatory authority over those 
facilities.
    Secretary Lane was a forward-thinking visionary who recognized the 
value of delegating the decision making and implementation of 
operations and maintenance of the Reclamation Project to local 
interests, who are most familiar with on-the-ground Project conditions 
and can best and most expeditiously make management and financial 
decisions. The Reclamation Act already provided those landowners with 
the foundation for constructing the infrastructure and acquiring and 
utilizing the water rights. Secretary Lane took the revolutionary step 
of providing landowners with the financial tools to succeed, namely the 
power revenues. Using the authorities provided to it under the 1917 
Agreement, including the authority to add water and power facilities to 
the Reclamation Project at its own cost, and without the consent of the 
government, SRP was empowered to manage both water and power resources 
for the benefit of its shareholders, the Salt River Valley, and Arizona 
more broadly.
    To meet the water demands of Association shareholders and other 
entities, SRP conjunctively manages six dams and reservoirs on the Salt 
and Verde Rivers in the Gila River Basin, one dam and reservoir on East 
Clear Creek in the Little Colorado River Basin, and 1,300 miles of 
canals, laterals, ditches and pipelines to deliver water to 
approximately 400 square miles of land in the greater Phoenix area. The 
dam and reservoir system can store approximately 2.3 million acre-feet 
of water runoff from the Salt and Verde River and East Clear creek 
systems, making SRP the largest raw water provider in the Phoenix 
Metropolitan area. The Association also operates over 270 wells located 
within Reservoir District boundaries to develop underground water 
supplies for the benefit of its shareholders.
    Currently, SRP reservoirs supply water to more than 2 million 
people in the cities of Phoenix, Mesa, Chandler, Tempe, Glendale, 
Gilbert, Scottsdale, Tolleson, Peoria, and Avondale. SRP reservoirs 
also provide water to irrigate agricultural lands, and for other uses 
within the SRRD. In addition, SRP delivers water stored in Reclamation 
Project reservoirs to the Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community 
(SRPMIC), Fort McDowell Yavapai Nation (FMYN), and Gila River Indian 
Community (GRIC) under the terms of their respective water rights 
settlement agreements. Additional users of the reservoir water are 
Buckeye Irrigation Company, Roosevelt Irrigation District, Roosevelt 
Water Conservation District, and others.
    Over the last 120 years, SRP grew not only to be the largest raw 
water provider in Central Arizona, but developed a public power utility 
to provide reliable, affordable, and sustainable power. In 1937, the 
Salt River Project Agricultural Improvement and Power District 
(District) was organized under Arizona law for the purpose, in part, of 
financially supporting the Association. The District assumed the 
obligations of the 1917 Agreement pursuant to a 1937 contract between 
District and the Association. The District and the Association continue 
to collaboratively operate the Reclamation Project with the District 
leading on electrical energy generation, transmission and distribution. 
Through the District, SRP has become the third largest not-for-profit 
community based public power utility in the country providing 
electricity to nearly 3 million people in Arizona. SRP has a diverse 
energy portfolio that includes nuclear, solar, wind, natural gas, 
battery storage, coal, geothermal, and hydropower.
B. Construction of Reclamation Project Reservoirs and Hydroelectric 
        Power Generating Facilities
    The United States, through the Reclamation Service (the predecessor 
of the Bureau of Reclamation (Reclamation)) and SRP collaborated to 
develop the Reclamation Project water storage reservoirs and associated 
hydroelectric power facilities. These hydroelectric power facilities 
were the cornerstone of SRP's energy portfolio and served the power 
needs of the Phoenix metropolitan area and beyond. Roosevelt Dam is 
located at the confluence of Tonto Creek and the Salt River about 80 
miles northeast of Phoenix in Gila and Maricopa counties. Construction 
of Roosevelt Dam, the first in the Reclamation Project and the largest 
masonry dam in the world, began in 1903 and concluded in 1911. Water 
was first stored behind the dam in 1910. In addition to water storage, 
the project included a hydroelectric plant, transmission lines, 
groundwater pumping stations, two concrete diversion dams, over a 
hundred miles of roads, two miles of tunnels, bridges, buildings, 
levees, telephone lines, and many miles of Valley canals purchased from 
private companies.
    The generation of hydroelectric power made possible by the 
completion of Roosevelt Dam was critical to the continued viability and 
success of the Reclamation Project. As the 1917 Agreement had 
contemplated, hydropower was the first and most essential tool 
developed by the Association to meet its repayment obligations to the 
government. And the Association's development of hydropower was crucial 
to the economic development and viability of the Salt River Valley more 
generally. Between 1900 and 1910, Phoenix's population doubled to 
11,000 residents. The Valley's urban center continued to develop 
commercially. Copper mines, newspapers, laundries, hotels, flour mills, 
meat packers, machine and lumber companies, processing plants, and 
other businesses associated with agriculture continued to locate in the 
Valley. All required electrical power. Accordingly, the Association 
looked to expand the Project's hydroelectric power generation capacity.
    In 1922, C.C. Cragin, Chief Engineer of the Association, and others 
completed a detailed study, titled, ``Report on Proposed Additional 
Hydro-Electric Power Development of the Salt River'' (the Cragin 
Report). Among other recommendations, the Cragin Report proposed that 
the Association build a series of dams below Roosevelt to be used for 
hydroelectric power production. Following the recommendations of the 
Cragin Report, and pursuant to the authority conferred on SRP to fund 
and construct additional Project works under the 1917 Agreement, SRP 
built three additional dams in the 1920s on the Salt River below 
Roosevelt Dam--Mormon Flat Dam (Canyon Lake), Horse Mesa Dam (Apache 
Lake), and Stewart Mountain Dam (Saguaro Lake). These dams increased 
the water supply available to SRP and, as envisioned by the Cragin 
Report, provided additional hydropower production.
    In response to increasing power demands in the late 1960s and early 
1970s, SRP made a significant investment to expand and upgrade these 
Salt River reservoir hydropower generation facilities. Beginning in the 
early 1940s, the Association realized that twenty-five cycle electrical 
power (compared to sixty cycle) was becoming obsolete. Twenty-five 
cycle power produced a perceptible flicker in lighting and cost the 
consumer more in electrical equipment. In response, SRP implemented its 
Hydro Expansion and Frequency Unification Project (HEFU) from 1969 to 
1973. Through the HEFU Project, SRP, at its own cost, upgraded the 
Mormon Flat, Roosevelt, and Horse Mesa generation facilities to sixty 
cycle electrical power and installed pump back hydroelectric power. 
These upgrades increased the hydroelectric capabilities by providing a 
more dependable power load.
    In addition to the Salt River, the Secretary withdrew land from the 
public domain along the Verde River in 1903 and 1904 for the purpose of 
constructing irrigation facilities for SRP. Using this withdrawn land, 
Bartlett Dam was constructed in the 1930s and Horseshoe Dam, upstream 
from Bartlett, was completed early in 1946. Both dams represent a 
commitment by the Reclamation Project to develop water supplies for use 
by both SRP shareholders and non-SRP shareholders, including the Salt 
River Pima Maricopa Indian Community, the City of Phoenix, and regional 
mining interests. Another dam, C.C. Cragin Dam and Reservoir, was added 
to the system Reclamation Project by the Arizona Water Settlements Act 
of 2004 (Public Law 108-451). C.C. Cragin Reservoir is located on upper 
East Clear Creek in the Little Colorado River watershed and has a 
capacity of 15,000 AF. Water stored in C.C. Cragin Reservoir is pumped 
over the Mogollon Rim into the East Verde River. Since the completion 
of the dams, SRP's reservoirs have continuously provided water and 
hydropower for use by Association shareholders and contractors in the 
Salt River Valley.
    Roosevelt remains the cornerstone of SRP's storage system. The 
storage capacity in Roosevelt (1,653,043 AF) represents 71 percent of 
the total SRP surface water storage. As originally constructed, 
Roosevelt Dam was 280 feet high and had a water storage capacity of 
1,284,205 AF. Capacity slightly increased and decreased over time as 
the spillway was modified and silt accumulated. As part of the United 
States work to complete the Central Arizona Project, from 1989 through 
early 1996, Reclamation undertook a $430 million modification, raising 
Roosevelt Dam 77 feet in elevation and creating three distinct storage 
pools. The modification increased the water conservation storage 
capacity by 20%, added 556,000 AF of dedicated flood control space 
(FCS), and 1,220,000 AF of Safety of Dams (SOD) surcharge capacity to 
address dam safety concerns. The new conservation space was dedicated 
to storage capacity for regional cities who appropriated water rights 
under state law to use outside the Reservoir District boundaries.
    Raising Roosevelt Dam also necessitated a key environmental 
compliance commitment by SRP. Once construction of Roosevelt Dam was 
complete, environmental conservation groups raised concerns that SRP's 
operations of the modified reservoir were impacting threatened and 
endangered species protected under the Endangered Species Act (ESA). In 
response, SRP worked with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) to 
develop a habitat conservation plan and received an incidental take 
permit under Section 10 of the ESA to mitigate the impacts of reservoir 
operation and maintenance activities on protected species. Section 10 
of the ESA provides nonfederal actors with the legal means of avoiding 
unauthorized ``take'' of listed species while implementing protective 
species conservation measures. Pursuant to the 1917 Agreement, SRP, a 
nonfederal entity, is vested with the authority and responsibility for 
care, operation and maintenance of the Reclamation Project works, 
including project reservoirs. In approving SRP's Roosevelt Habitat 
Conservation Plan and issuing the associated incidental take permit, 
the FWS and Reclamation both recognized that SRP was responsible for 
Roosevelt operations and, ultimately, for species effects, including 
``take'', associated with those operations. SRP also obtained such ESA 
Section 10 ``take'' coverage for its operations and maintenance 
activities for the Verde River Reservoirs.
II. Salt River Project Today and through the Next 100 Years
    SRP and other reclamation projects were built to provide reliable 
water and power resources in arid areas of the United States--but the 
need for such resources is more profound today than it was in 1902 when 
Congress created the Reclamation program. The visionary C.C. Cragin 
Plan that SRP implemented in the 1920s enabled SRP to develop the 
hydroelectric power resources that led to the success of the 
Reclamation Project over the last century. Development of water storage 
infrastructure on the system helped meet demand for SRP's shareholders 
and regional partners. The next 100 years are anticipated to bring even 
greater demands for water and power in the Salt River Valley. SRP, in 
collaboration with the United States and regional partners, is 
developing multiple infrastructure projects to meet these challenges 
for the next century.
A. Salt River Pumped Storage Project
    SRP's power resource challenges are significant. SRP's system is 
located within the Western Interconnection where current resource 
plans--including SRP's own Integrated System Plan--forecast 
unprecedented load growth over the next decade, driven in part by rapid 
expansion of large energy customers, such as data centers and advanced 
manufacturing facilities. Temperatures in SRP's service area routinely 
exceed 110 F in the summer. These conditions produce SRP's highest 
annual system demand. For instance, last year SRP set a new system peak 
record, over 8,200 MW on August 4, 2024. SRP's peak demand is expected 
to grow to nearly 8,500 MW for the upcoming summer 2025 and to more 
than 11,000 MWs by the summer of 2030. To meet these demands, SRP is 
making transformative changes to its power generation resource 
portfolios and its capacity to store energy for long periods of time. 
Pumped-storage hydroelectricity is such a resource, providing 10+ hours 
of energy storage by moving water between two reservoirs at different 
elevations.
    Pumped-storage hydro generation allows water to be pumped by 
hydropower turbines from a lower reservoir during times when power 
supplies are in excess and stored for later use. When power demand is 
high, the water is released from the upper reservoir through hydropower 
turbines on its way back to the lower reservoir, thereby generating 
electricity. Pumped storage facilities act as large batteries, taking 
advantage of excess power, water supplies, and elevation differences to 
meet peak demand. SRP is uniquely situated to use its water and 
infrastructure resources to take advantage of an abundant local natural 
resource--sunshine--to meet its increasing power demands.
    The proposed Salt River Pumped Storage Project would expand SRP's 
current hydroelectric generation capacity by adding a new upper 
reservoir to pair with Apache Lake, in eastern Arizona, as an existing 
lower reservoir. The upper reservoir and associated power generation 
infrastructure, including powerhouse, tunnels, and transmission 
facilities could provide up to 2000 MWs of long duration energy 
storage, enough power for up to nearly 500,000 homes. The long asset 
life of 100 years, low degree of major replacement and upgrades over 
the course of its useful life, and the relatively low operating and 
maintenance costs (taking advantage of low-cost solar power), combined 
with operating flexibility for supporting grid reliability, make pumped 
storage a compelling option to add to SRP's resource portfolio.
    Developing additional pumped storage technology brings the Salt 
River Project full circle. The purpose of the Reclamation Act was to 
develop infrastructure to make water supplies from western river 
systems more reliable--i.e. store water when mother nature provides it 
for later use when its needed. Pumped Storage technology fulfills the 
same purpose for power resources--i.e. such technology allows the 
operator to store power when mother nature provides it through sunshine 
and wind for later use when its needed. The technology to meet those 
two purposes, over 100 years apart, is the same, and SRP is uniquely 
situated to deploy it.
B. Verde Reservoirs Sediment Mitigation Project
    Over the next one hundred years, the Verde River watershed is 
expected to experience increased precipitation variability and higher 
temperatures resulting in less frequent but greater inflow volumes into 
Bartlett and Horseshoe reservoirs (Verde River reservoirs). Currently, 
the Verde River reservoirs are undersized in capacity to fully capture 
flood flows off the Verde River watershed. In 2023, SRP had to release 
water from Bartlett as the reservoir reached capacity due to heavy 
winter precipitation in the Verde watershed. The water SRP released 
from the Verde River reservoirs during that period could have supplied 
over 1 million households with water for an entire year. In addition to 
the changing precipitation regime, SRP must contend with the sediment 
impact of over eight decades of Verde River reservoirs operation. In 
flows from the Verde River watershed carry significant sediment loads 
that have accumulated in the reservoirs reducing the maximum water 
conservation capacity (by approximately a 36,000 acre-feet (AF) in 
Horseshoe Reservoir and approximately 15,000 AF in Bartlett). These 
impacts will continue in the future.
    The reduction in inflow frequency and loss of Verde River 
reservoirs' storage capacity create challenges for SRP to manage these 
water supplies for central Arizona. The carryover storage capacity in 
SRP's reservoirs will be critical to successfully adapting water 
management practices to prepare for the future. Recognizing this, SRP, 
along with a group of 23 water providers, including tribal, 
agricultural, and municipal organizations, have partnered with 
Reclamation to explore solutions through a federal feasibility study, 
the Verde Reservoirs Sediment Mitigation Project (VRSMP). The purpose 
of the VRSMP is to study the feasibility of increasing surface water 
yield from the Verde River reservoir system by, in part, constructing 
an enlarged Bartlett Dam and Reservoir that would restore lost storage 
capacity from sediment accumulation at Horseshoe Reservoir and provide 
additional, new storage space. The feasibility study is also examining 
approaches for mitigating future reservoir sediment accumulation. The 
VRSMP, if approved by the Congress at the conclusion of the study, 
would aid significantly in ensuring future water supply resiliency for 
the region.
    An expanded Bartlett Dam and Reservoir is one proposed alternative 
that will be evaluated through the feasibility study. The enlarged 
Bartlett Reservoir would increase the current total water storage 
capacity on the Verde River by about 350,000 AF, enough to support an 
additional 1 million Arizona homes, and more than double existing 
capacity.
    Central Arizona water users primarily rely on surface water from 
the Salt, Verde, and lower Colorado rivers, groundwater, and treated 
effluent. Changes or variations in the availability of lower Colorado 
River water supplies and groundwater resulting from, among other 
things, extended drought highlight the need for maintaining the 
resiliency of the water supplies from the Verde River. Constructing a 
larger storage facility on the Verde River would benefit Arizona water 
users through the provision of additional water supplies, where dam 
safety, flood control, recreation, fish, and wildlife are potential 
incidental benefits.
C. SRP-CAP Interconnection Facility
    SRP and CAP, along with 12 municipal water providers, are exploring 
the potential for an interconnection project that would allow non-SRP 
shareholder water stored in Reclamation Project reservoirs and 
underground storage facilities to be transported into the Central 
Arizona Project canal and delivered to water users outside the Salt 
River Reservoir District. The proposed SRP-CAP Interconnection Facility 
(SCIF) would mirror the existing interconnection between the CAP and 
SRP systems that enables CAP water to be transported into SRP's canal 
system for delivery. The SCIF would permit certain non-SRP shareholder 
supplies to be transported into the CAP canal and enable innovative 
exchange opportunities with downstream CAP water users. The proposed 
interconnection would also enable strategic recharge and direct 
delivery opportunities for SRP generating stations located in Pinal 
County.
    The SCIF would increase the use of existing infrastructure, 
including the CAP, and provide additional flexibility for coordinated 
operations between two of the largest water providers in the state. 
Above all, the facility provides resiliency for municipal providers in 
central Arizona during periods of severe shortage in the Colorado River 
basin.
D. Planned Deviation to the Modified Roosevelt Water Control Manual
    Expected increased temperatures and higher precipitation 
variability on the Salt and Verde River watersheds--resulting in drier 
dry periods and wetter wet periods. Successful water management of 
these watersheds will require that operations of existing water 
infrastructure to be adaptable to changing drought and precipitation 
patterns to meet the water resource needs of Central Arizona.
    When the United States raised Roosevelt Dam on the Reclamation 
Project in the mid-1990s, 24 feet of the dam raise was dedicated to 
flood control under the Flood Control Act of 1944 under the 
jurisdiction of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE). SRP, USACE, 
and Reclamation developed an agreement and water control plan in 1996 
where SRP agreed to evacuate water entering the flood control space 
within 20 days of it entering such space to protect downstream lands 
and infrastructure from flooding. Such agreement allowed for future 
planned deviations from the water control plan.
    As a water management measure, SRP, along with other water users on 
the Salt River, sought such a planned deviation to evacuate the water 
over a longer time period, while maintaining the safety of Roosevelt 
Dam and downstream communities. In June, 2024, the USACE approved SRP's 
proposal to temporarily extend the amount of time SRP must evacuate 
water from a portion of the Flood Control Space from 20 days to 120 
days. The plan, which would authorize the temporary extension to occur 
once a year for three out of the next five years, will allow farms and 
communities downstream to use the water and reduce releases of flood 
water from Roosevelt Dam into the normally dry Salt River. The Plan 
could allow SRP to deliver up to 109,000 acre-feet per year in those 3 
years to water users that have rights to such water and could support 
about 330,000 households in the Phoenix metropolitan area for a year. 
The supplies made available during flood periods will help reduce 
groundwater use and supplement supplies for communities impacted by 
Colorado River shortages.
    The USACE and Reclamation determined the plan would have no adverse 
impact on the safety of Roosevelt Dam or downstream communities. The 
proposal is the result of a collaborative effort between SRP, 
Reclamation, USACE, FWS, the Forest Service, and a consortium of local 
cities, tribes, and agricultural districts. Over the five-year period, 
SRP and partners will review the value of the revised operation to 
determine if requesting a permanent change to flood operations is 
warranted.
III. Conclusion
    SRP has a long history of collaborating with the United States and 
regional partners to develop reliable and cost-effective water and 
power resources for our growing communities in the desert Southwest. 
Such collaboration has resulted in numerous accomplishments over the 
decades. The challenges ahead are significant. SRP is located in one of 
the hottest and dryest parts of the United States. Our community is 
fortunate to have a robust economy that drives growth and demand for 
water and power. The support of Congress, the federal agencies, and 
regional partners will be key to meet the challenges of the next 
century which will include collaborating to develop new water and power 
infrastructure. Based on Federal workforce resources and capabilities, 
it would be very helpful to empower SRP to timely proceed with 
development, including design, construction, environmental and cultural 
reviews and permitting. We look forward to meeting the expectations set 
by the early visionaries of the Reclamation program to build strong and 
resilient communities.

                                 ______
                                 

 Questions Submitted for the Record to Patrick Sigl, Director of Water 
             and Natural Resources Law, Salt River Project

              Questions Submitted by Representative Maloy

    Question 1. Can you explain the importance of maintaining and 
enhancing Glen Canyon Dam generation to SRP?

    Answer. Dear Congresswoman Maloy: Thank you for your service on the 
House Natural Resources Subcommittee on Water, Wildlife and Fisheries 
and for your question following the April 30, 2025, ``Advancing Federal 
Water and Hydropower Development: A Stakeholder Perspective'' hearing. 
We appreciate the opportunity to provide Salt River Project's (SRP) 
perspective and elaborate on the importance of maintaining and 
enhancing Glen Canyon Dam hydropower generation.
    SRP receives hydropower from Glen Canyon Dam under two agreements. 
First, SRP holds a preference power contract under the Colorado River 
Storage Project Act of 1956 (CRSP Act). In addition, SRP is entitled to 
hydropower generated at Glen Canyon Dam under a power exchange 
agreement with the Western Area Power Authority (WAPA). In the 1960s, 
SRP and Reclamation collaborated on an innovative power exchange 
agreement that helped SRP meet increasing power demands in the Salt 
River Valley and Reclamation to meet power delivery responsibilities 
under the CRSP Act. Congress enacted the CRSP Act to authorize 
construction of a series of dams, reservoirs, and hydroelectric power 
plants to store water and generate hydropower for use across the Upper 
Colorado River Basin (Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, and Wyoming). 
Reclamation was responsible for constructing the reservoirs and 
electric transmission systems to deliver the electricity to the 
intended beneficiaries. Under the exchange, SRP, in collaboration with 
other utilities, built power generation facilities in Colorado and New 
Mexico to deliver power to intended CRSP Project beneficiaries in 
exchange for receiving hydropower generated at Glen Canyon Dam. The 
innovative exchange saved Reclamation the expense of building 
additional power transmission systems in the Upper Basin to serve CRSP 
Project beneficiaries. Congress established WAPA in 1977 which took 
over implementation of the exchange with SRP. Under these authorities, 
SRP is entitled to 350 MW of hydropower directly from Glen Canyon Dam 
and over 600 MW pending the availability of transmission capacity. SRP 
is one of over 170 entities that receive hydropower from facilities 
constructed under the CRSP Act, including Glen Canyon Dam. These 
entities include electric cooperatives, municipalities, irrigation 
districts, publicly owned facilities, state and federal agencies, and 
tribes.
    Hydropower generation from Glen Canyon Dam is an important resource 
for SRP to meet summer peak capacity, a key driver of SRP resource 
needs. SRP's system is located within the Western Interconnection where 
current resource plans--including SRP's own Integrated System Plan--
forecast unprecedented load growth over the next decade, driven in part 
by rapid expansion of large energy customers, such as data centers and 
advanced manufacturing facilities. Temperatures in SRP's service area 
routinely exceed 110 F in the summer. These conditions produce SRP's 
highest annual system demand. For instance, last year SRP set a new 
system peak record, over 8,200 MW on August 4, 2024. SRP's peak demand 
is expected to grow to nearly 8,500 MW for the upcoming summer 2025 and 
to more than 11,000 MWs by the summer of 2030. Without maintaining and 
enhancing the Glen Canyon hydropower resource, there is a risk that the 
power exchange resources could become stranded in Colorado, resulting 
in significant reliability and financial risks to more than 3 million 
SRP customers in central Arizona.
    Glen Canyon hydropower also plays an integral role in grid 
reliability. Hydrogeneration is one of the system's most reliable power 
sources, with the least exposure to non-policy availability 
disruptions, including weather events, fuels disruption, and auxiliary 
system issues. Particularly in high-demand times of the year, 
hydropower from Glen Canyon can also materially influence regional 
power market dynamics, and any decrease or absence thereof may 
challenge SRP and others to procure adequate capacity for emergency 
system needs, at significant added expense, on the day-ahead or real-
time markets. Hydropower generation at Glen Canyon Dam is a clean and 
renewable dispatchable resource that reliably generates power during 
these difficult hours. Moreover, Glen Canyon hydropower complements the 
increasing amount of solar generation on the system as it produces 
energy in the critical late afternoon and evening hours when solar 
generation fades. Such dispatchability is critical to preserve during 
Glen Canyon Dam bypass operations. There is a cost to SRP customers 
during any such curtailments, but even more importantly, the risk to 
grid reliability greatly increases during these critical hours.
    Concurrently, the generation resource needs of SRP and the western 
power grid at large are increasing at an extraordinary rate, and the 
grid currently lacks surplus capacity due to load growth, resource 
retirements, and delays in replacement resources created by supply 
chain and other challenges. Arizona and the Desert Southwest continue 
to attract and support emerging industries vital to national security 
and self-sufficiency, including domestic semiconductor manufacturing, 
data centers, and critical mineral resources, largely due to its 
reputation for power grid reliability. Glen Canyon Dam hydrogeneration 
is part of a diverse and dynamic regional power portfolio that will 
allow the United States to maintain its strategic edge in the 21st 
century.
    SRP appreciates continued Congressional efforts to support the 
pragmatic balancing of Glen Canyon hydrogeneration with compliance 
needs for sensitive fish species downstream, displayed in H.R. 1001 and 
reflected in the Basin Fund Preservation Act (S. 887) cosponsored by 
Senators Lee and Curtis. Interior's ability to strike a well-informed 
balance and mitigate associated impacts to Glen Canyon hydropower and 
the Upper Colorado River Basin Fund is vitally important. The Glen 
Canyon Dam Adaptive Management Program makes recommendations to the 
Interior Secretary, who retains decision-making authority for 
experimental dam releases; the stated goal of Glen Canyon's Long-Term 
Experimental and Management Plan (LTEMP) relating to the hydropower 
resource is to ``maintain or increase Glen Canyon Dam electric energy 
generation . . . to the greatest extent practicable.'' \1\ It is 
vitally important that the United States maintains and enhances 
hydropower generation at Glen Canyon Dam, both for SRP and the broader 
region.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Record of Decision for the Glen Canyon Dam Long-Term 
Experimental and Management Plan, Final Environmental Impact Statement, 
Attachment A: Objectives and Resource Goals of the LTEMP, Page A-2.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Thank you again for the opportunity to participate in this hearing 
and provide insights into this important matter. Please reach out to me 
if you desire any further information.

                                 ______
                                 

    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. I would encourage you to look at 
the pathfinder enlargement that was done several years ago, in 
order to reclaim the capacity lost to sedimentation there. I 
believe it was 56,000 acre-feet that was reclaimed just by 
increasing the height of that dam. So there are definitely some 
other projects out there where that has worked.
    I want to thank all of the witnesses for your testimony, 
and I will now recognize members for 5 minutes each for 
questioning. I am going to begin with myself.
    Mr. Webb, as you can imagine, I want to talk to you about 
what is going on in our area. And in your testimony you 
highlighted the importance of the Columbia River System as an 
energy source in the Pacific Northwest. One specific issue you 
raise is the debate around the Lower Snake River dams. Last 
Congress many of our members were involved in oversight efforts 
to push back on the Biden administration's efforts to undermine 
this important resource. What can Congress do as we move 
forward to ensure that these dams are protected?
    Mr. Webb. Thank you, Chair, and Congress is the key. You 
guys hold the keys to whether or not dams are removed. You 
authorize dams being put in. So nothing can be done unless it 
is authorized by Congress. So our hope is that Congress will be 
on our side and we won't tear out dams. It is critical that we 
hang together and we do that.
    We can support salmon, and that is very important to me, 
but we can also have the dams and electricity, and both can co-
exist.
    Ms. Hageman. I would imagine that Spain, Portugal, and 
France really wish they had hydropower backup right now in 
light of what has been demonstrated this week with the fallacy 
of wind and solar. So I agree with you about the importance of 
these resources.
    You also referenced the 2020 biological opinion that was 
completed in President Trump's first term, which concluded that 
breaching these four dams was not an option, and noted that the 
dams are managed to benefit fish populations in the basin. Can 
you share your perspective on how this existing infrastructure 
and salmon populations can co-exist?
    Mr. Webb. They can, and a lot is done to protect the 
salmon. The most important probably is the flow regime. So 
water is released--or we call it spill--to allow the small 
smelt to get down the river and make the trip quicker. And a 
higher survival technology is used for weirs and for the blades 
to make them more fish friendly, ladders are there. So 
significant investments been made to protect the salmon. And 
like I mentioned, the runs, especially this last year, are 
threefold what they were before the dam.
    So we are having success. There is more we need to do, but 
we also need to focus on the non-dam-related issues with salmon 
like the predators, like the ocean conditions. And so there is 
a lot that we need to look to, but we are very committed to 
protect the salmon. That is very important to us.
    Ms. Hageman. OK. Thank you, Mr. Webb.
    And Mr. Haswell, I was fascinated to look at the 
information that you are providing. I think that this has great 
promise to be able to meet the demand of the State of 
California. California has the same water infrastructure in 
place today with 40 million people as it had in the 1960s with 
16 million people. It is clear that the leadership out there 
has failed to provide the water infrastructure necessary to 
meet the demand of those citizens.
    And we know that demand for water and power resources is 
expected to surge in the coming years. In fact, we demand more 
electricity every day than we did the day before. We need more 
energy every single day than we need the day than we needed the 
day before. And we know that there are new technologies and new 
approaches that are available, and they are going to be key to 
meeting that demand. Can you talk about the opportunity that 
new technologies like OceanWell can help increase water 
reliability across the West?
    Mr. Haswell. Certainly. Thank you for the question.
    OceanWell is able to generate a new source supply that 
comes from the ocean, comes from regions not currently tapped, 
and which avoid a lot of the challenges of drought, drought 
resilience and the other hazards that prevent existing 
supplies. It is modular, scalable. Nature also means that we 
can expand the volume and production that comes from a water 
farm, as we describe it, as demands prevail and increase for 
those given communities.
    Ms. Hageman. Are you doing a pilot project right now?
    Mr. Haswell. We are. We are doing a pilot project in Las 
Virgenes Municipal Water District, actually in an inland body 
of water in their reservoir. And the reason for that is simply 
that that water is dirtier, and so a more taxing test on our 
intake systems and our self-cleaning systems.
    Ms. Hageman. I would love to come and visit that. I would 
like to see that.
    Mr. Haswell. We would love to host you.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. And you mentioned in your testimony 
that Congress could further support public-private partnerships 
like yours by streamlining the Federal permitting processes. 
Can you expand on the importance of permitting reform to 
solving some of these issues?
    Mr. Haswell. Absolutely. We have permitting experts within 
our organization. I would love to have them supplement our 
testimony to speak specifically to that.
    But as a general point, ensuring anything, any programs 
that envisage traditional desalination also envisage and factor 
for new technologies, and specifically deep ocean desalination, 
would be enormously helpful for our ability to bring this 
technology on stream and provide new supplies.
    Ms. Hageman. Well, I am out of time for my questioning. We 
definitely will follow up in terms of working with you on this 
permitting reform. It is a priority of Chairman Westerman's. It 
is a priority of many of the people on this Committee. I think 
it is critical to the future of being able to provide water and 
energy to the citizens of this country. So thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Huffman for 5 minutes of 
questioning.
    Mr. Huffman. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I appreciate the 
fact that several of our witnesses got us into a really 
interesting conversation about innovation and how that can lead 
us forward in places like California, especially. I appreciated 
the witness from Salt River talking about the pump storage and 
other innovative strategies you have been pursuing and your 
leadership there.
    And we have got some things that we can disagree about 
Lower Snake River and other matters, but I want to talk with 
you, Mr. Haswell, about this intriguing technology that you are 
working on, because I have been working on desalination and the 
challenges to cost-effective, scalable desal for a long time, 
going back to my time in the California legislature. And I 
remember many years ago working with Long Beach on using maybe 
offshore drilling platforms, especially as they were 
decommissioned, but as the infrastructure for something exactly 
like what you are talking about, going down far enough that the 
hydrostatic pressure would solve the energy challenge of desal, 
40 percent of the cost. That would be fantastic if we could do 
that at scale.
    And the technology that you showed us and talked about 
seems pretty exciting. But I have seen so many of these things 
come and go, and never quite make it out of the valley of 
death. Tell me why yours might be an exception to that.
    And I noted in your testimony that public-private 
partnerships including with Las Virgenes and some of the others 
you have mentioned, but also the Bureau of Reclamation and some 
grant funding from the Federal Government, which I presume came 
from the historic Western water infrastructure investments we 
put in place a few years ago. Talk about why that is really 
important for your ability to make it out of the valley of 
death.
    Mr. Haswell. Thank you, Congressman, for that question.
    In one word, collaboration. We recognize the technical 
challenges, which over the last 7 years we have worked pretty 
hard to answer the challenges of conventional desalination. But 
we have also engaged all stakeholders very early on. About 4 
years ago we started a fairly extensive outreach program to 
surface any questions, challenges, or issues of deploying this 
technology. And so far we have been met with a generally 
positive response that this solves the needs that conventional 
desalination may not always meet, and so is a viable new 
pathway.
    Mr. Huffman. Does your technology use, like, abandoned rigs 
or things like that, or do you have your own standalone 
infrastructure?
    Mr. Haswell. So the intention is to build our own 
standalone infrastructure in what we describe as a water farm. 
There is a possibility to use pre-existing infrastructure, 
especially insofar as there may be pre-existing shore crossings 
or sub-sea electrical systems that are already at distance to 
depth. Those we look at on a case-by-case basis.
    Mr. Huffman. Could you use offshore wind infrastructure, 
for example?
    Mr. Haswell. Potentially.
    Mr. Huffman. They are floating on the West Coast, I know, 
so it is complicated.
    Mr. Haswell. Yes, there is a technical challenge in that 
windmills or turbines are at the surface. We are 1,500 feet 
below, so you need a dynamic umbilical. But it is solvable by 
engineering. So conceivably, yes.
    Mr. Huffman. Fifteen hundred feet is the point at which you 
have got the hydrostatic pressure you need?
    Mr. Haswell. That is correct.
    Mr. Huffman. I assume it is a very low volume intake, so 
entrainment and impingement would not be an issue?
    Mr. Haswell. Correct. We have an entire subsystem which 
makes up a large amount of our intellectual property, which is 
labeled our LifeSafe crossflow intake, which is tasked entirely 
with bringing in water without damage to the marine 
environment.
    Mr. Huffman. Have you done any studies on sort of the 
outfall side at the top? It looked like in your technology, the 
brine concentration.
    Mr. Haswell. The design of the system has been informed by 
what we call low recovery brine outfall targets, so a 
conventional desalination system will target a recovery rate of 
fresh potable water at 50 percent. Ours is 15 percent, and the 
reason for that is because we exist where we do in the deep 
ocean, we have unlimited free source water and pressure, so we 
don't need to optimize for recovery rates. We can optimize for 
minimal brine impact, and so our outfall is slightly a benign 
brine, in essence.
    Mr. Huffman. Super interesting. I would love to learn more 
about it, and I appreciate your testimony.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Haswell. Thank you for your question.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you, and the Chair now recognizes Mr. 
McClintock for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Mr. McClintock. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
    In 1959 the California legislature passed the Burns-Porter 
Act. It included a water bond of $1.75 billion. Inflation 
adjusted, that would be about $19 billion in today's dollars. 
And with that we built 10 storage dams, 11 auxiliary dams that 
store 7 million acre-feet of water and generate 3,000 megawatts 
of electricity. And with what was left over we built the entire 
California Aqueduct.
    Now, since 2000 California voters have approved not $19 
billion of water bonds, but $37 billion of water bonds, all 
promising to enhance California's water supply. And yet not a 
single major reservoir of over a million acre-feet has been 
constructed in California. One of the most water-abundant 
regions of our country now suffers from chronic water 
shortages, even in years of record rainfall. In fact, water 
bonds approved by voters with the promise they would be used 
for new water storage have instead been used to tear down 
existing dams.
    Now, I listened to the Ranking Member's comments about the 
need to invest in bureaucracy. Not once did he mention the need 
to build new reservoirs and aqueducts, because, of course, he 
and his cohorts have blocked their construction in California 
for decades.
    Merely completing the Shasta Dam would mean another 9 
million acre-feet of water storage. Completion of the abandoned 
Auburn Dam would mean another 2.3 million acre-feet of water 
storage, 800 megawatts of hydroelectric power, 400-year flood 
protection for the Sacramento Delta, and a major new 
recreational lake serving the entire region. But the Ranking 
Member has instead proposed withdrawing Federal authorization 
for that dam. Now, you add the Sites, Temperance Flats, Los 
Vaqueros, that would add several million acre-feet more of 
additional water storage. In the case of Temperance Flats, 
additional flood control that is desperately needed for the 
Central Valley.
    Mr. Webb, isn't it obvious that our now chronic water 
shortages in the West are not because of a shortage of water, 
or a shortage of money, or a shortage of dam sites? So what is 
the problem?
    Mr. Webb. Well, thank you. And I think it is a matter of 
being innovative and making the right investments. Everything 
we do has an environmental impact, but we have to balance that 
with making new investments.
    In our small cooperative, we have tried to do things. We 
put in our own facility on a dam that was existing on a creek, 
and we produce power there now. We are actively trying to, on 
another Federal dam, install hydroelectric there. But I think 
it is a matter of investment, being innovative.
    Mr. McClintock. But investment that makes sense.
    Mr. Webb. Yes.
    Mr. McClintock. That actually stores additional water.
    Mr. Sigl, what are your thoughts? Is this a shortage of of 
money, dam sites, or water, or is it a shortage of political 
will to build the kind of projects that we rely upon still 
today for our water supply?
    Mr. Sigl. No, thank you for the question. And the Salt 
River Project, we have been developing infrastructure and water 
for 120 years in hydropower. And it has been a commitment of 
both the Federal Government, the Salt River Project as the 
local operator, and various regional partners all along the 
way. So I think you are right, making those common-sense 
investments, having the will to proceed with them, analyzing 
the environmental risks that go with them in the modern era are 
very important for all of us to collaborate as we meet these 
challenges in the future.
    Mr. McClintock. Ultimately, doesn't this come down to a 
question of abundance and shortage, and that the politicians 
who have had their way over our water policy for the last 
generation have deliberately chosen shortage?
    Mr. Webb. Again, I think there is different perspectives in 
the different regions that you look at. I know, from the Salt 
River Project's perspective, we have been able to develop the 
infrastructure over the years. And as I highlighted in my 
testimony, we are working on raising Bartlett Dam.
    Mr. McClintock. You haven't had to deal with the kind of 
lunacy in public policy that we just heard from the Ranking 
Member.
    Do you think it would be helpful to streamline the process 
for new dam construction, put the Bureau of Reclamation in 
charge of all Federal permitting agencies, require the 
permitting process to run concurrently, not consecutively, and 
put a 2-year time limit on that process?
    Mr. Webb. If you are referring to some of the amendments in 
the Fiscal Responsibility Act to NEPA, yes, we are very 
supportive of those. We have got several NEPA processes that we 
are embarking on. Typically, on our reclamation project, 
Reclamation is the lead agency, and I think some of those 
streamlining effects will be very helpful as we proceed with 
our projects.
    Mr. McClintock. I see my time has expired. Thank you.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you, Mr. McClintock, and the Chair now 
recognizes Ms. Hoyle, the Ranking Member, for 5 minutes of 
questioning.
    Ms. Hoyle. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    First of all, Mr. Sigl, I was very happy to hear you talk 
about the opportunities that we have with pumped storage for 
energy production. Our local and international plumbers and 
pipefitters unions are really leaning in on this. These are 
good jobs. It is clean energy. And it is, again, the type of 
public-private partnership and innovation that we should be 
investing in. So thank you for that.
    For Ms. Bushman, the Bureau of Reclamation, the power 
marketing administrations, and NOAA are essential for providing 
water to communities, keeping the power grid reliable, and 
forecasting weather conditions across the West which are 
critical for our farmers, for our fishermen, and certainly for 
wildfire management. How has staffing and funding instability 
affected their ability to deliver on these vital services, from 
your perspective?
    And what long-term challenges could these disruptions 
create for maintaining critical public services across the 
West?
    I know what I have heard in my town halls from my local 
fishermen and foresters and Tribes, but from your perspective.
    Ms. Bushman. Thank you.
    Our States are still at the beginning of this experience. 
So I think that, as the experience goes on, that the problems 
are going to be compounded. Initially, a lot of these programs 
and offices are run on shoestring budgets, as it is. A lot of 
them are understaffed. And reducing the staffing and closing 
the local offices is going to decrease their ability to engage 
with the States and provide the data that is needed in order to 
make decisions both in terms of seasonal droughts, as well as 
disaster responses for wildfires and other issues.
    Ms. Hoyle. Yes, the biggest thing we are concerned about is 
disaster response. And again, our fishermen put their lives on 
the line when they go out. And if they don't have access to 
what kind of weather is going to be happening, people die. And 
we feed the world from the West Coast, our fishermen feed the 
world. And we need to do whatever we can to get them the data 
to be safe.
    Mr. Webb, you talked about BPA. And as we both pointed out, 
BPA is funded by ratepayers. Now, I know what we have seen in 
Oregon, literally leaving us with one lineman in central Oregon 
who would not be able to handle any kind of a disaster or 
downed power line because you need two linemen for that type of 
energy. And again, you cannot say that this is about government 
efficiency or saving taxpayer dollars because we pay for that, 
as ratepayers. So what have you seen with cuts to BPA's 
staffing, and what do you think the effects of that are going 
to be long term?
    Mr. Webb. I personally had a project that I had been 
working on to partner with BPA that would save BPA about $300 
million a year. The key staff that was working with me, top 
staff, they took the early retirement, basically put my project 
on hold or possibly killed it. And we were trying to partner to 
save BPA money and reduce their cost and better serve us. So 
just an example of how we need the employees there, we need 
their staff, and it is critical to what they do for us.
    Ms. Hoyle. And again, this does nothing to bring down the 
national debt because this is not taxpayer dollars, it is 
ratepayer dollars. And in your case it actually will cost our 
ratepayers more, correct?
    Mr. Webb. Yes, that would be correct if my project would 
have been able to be built.
    Ms. Hoyle. Right, then it would have saved ratepayer 
dollars. Thank you.
    I think we should all want government efficiency. And 
anyone that thinks that there aren't savings or efficiencies to 
have in government isn't paying attention. However, when we 
make these across-the-board cuts and gut agencies without 
looking at which staff are actually critical, when we stop 
projects right in the middle of them happening, when we are 
making cuts that really don't make any sense for what DOGE is 
supposed to be doing, there has got to be a different agenda or 
just utter incompetence.
    But either way, I am glad that you spoke up, and it should 
be a bipartisan issue--because our rural communities are 
affected most--to ensure that we ratepayers have, again, 
government investment and operations that work for all the 
ratepayers across all of these States. And thank you.
    Ms. Hageman. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Bentz for 5 
minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Bentz. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    So Mr. Webb, the remarks you were making about the Snake 
River dams are of great interest to me. And so perhaps you can 
share with everyone--you made reference to NMFS's report, which 
appears to be made up of whole cloth and ignoring the 5-year 
exercise and putting together the BiOp that emerged not long 
ago. Can you share with us your thoughts on where that standard 
that is in that NMFS document--the so-called abundant fish 
standard, I guess you would call it--any idea where that came 
from, and what it was based upon?
    Mr. Webb. Thank you, sir. And I am just a lowly cooperative 
manager, but in my opinion on both sides it seems like we try 
to find the science that tells us what we want to hear, not 
just be independent and give the truth. So I think it is 
searching to answer questions and keep looking until you get 
the answer you want, I guess, would be my opinion.
    Mr. Bentz. It would seem to me that, in preparing for the 
hearing that this Committee held up in Kennewick, I think, we 
had some 400 or 500 people attend. And all of them, it appeared 
to me, were opposed to removing the dams and opposed to the 
types of structure that were being debated.
    One of the concepts that came up in a memo--I am not sure 
how valid it is--was that the dams wouldn't be removed, they 
would simply be regulated out of power generation. Is that 
rumor still floating about, that a Federal judge might say: you 
don't have to take the dams out because that would require, 
well, Congress, but make it that you have to let the water run 
through the dams, we can do that administratively. Is that 
concept still out there?
    Mr. Webb. That is still out there, and that is one of our 
worries. We don't want to make them uneconomical or unusable, 
so that is still out there. And hopefully, that won't happen.
    Mr. Bentz. One of the concepts that came up with a 
biologist that has studied the river for many, many years was 
that there is about 50 percent mortality in the fish making 
their way from the top of the drainages down to the ocean. And 
then, when the 50 percent that remained went into the ocean, 
about 1 percent came back. And so the question in my mind had 
been, well, why in the world aren't we focusing on what is 
going on in the ocean to try to figure out how to further 
reduce mortality?
    Because my understanding is the billions, literally, of 
dollars that we put into those dams have reduced dramatically 
the impact they have had upon the movement of fish. I think he 
was using the river up in Canada, has no dams on it, and it too 
had the 50 percent mortality on the way to the ocean. Your 
thoughts on that? What have you guys done, if anything, as I 
have done, because I have met personally with NMFS and said, 
``You need to start focusing on the ocean'' What do you folks 
think should be done in that space?
    Mr. Webb. Yes, I think on the rivers we have done 
everything we can. We have invested. Like I said, 25 percent of 
our monthly bill goes to fish mitigation. I agree with you that 
the focus needs to be on the ocean, the conditions there, on 
the predators that eat the fish coming in and out of the ocean 
into the river, and we need to focus there.
    And so we need to really study what is causing the decline 
in the ocean, and that is where the losses are.
    Mr. Bentz. And to go back again, the thought had been if 
you could reduce the loss before the fish get to the ocean from 
50 percent to, let's say 40 percent, that would still mean you 
would still get, like, 1 percent back. So it just seemed to 
make so little sense for us to continue to throw those billions 
of dollars into reforming or refitting or tearing dams out and 
throwing them away, when in point of fact you are not going to 
improve significantly the returns of fish. Why is this argument 
so panned by environmental organizations?
    Mr. Webb. I don't know. It seems to me we should all work 
together, focus on the big threats which would be the ocean, 
and try to find solutions to that. I would agree with you.
    Mr. Bentz. Yes, we all agree. But thank goodness at this 
particular point my understanding is that steps are being taken 
to reverse some of the steps that were being taken to spend 
another half a billion dollars on various alternative power 
generation. And in anticipation of removing the dams, I am 
hopeful that is going to go away and we can shift our 
investments to a more productive purpose.
    But thank you all for being here, and I yield back.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Gray 
from California.
    Mr. Gray. Thank you, Madam Chair and Ranking Member, for 
holding this hearing, and thank you to the witnesses for your 
participation here today.
    Some of my colleagues have spoken about the landmark 
legislation that provided hundreds of millions of dollars, 
frankly for water infrastructure and storage in the San Joaquin 
Valley, which I represent, the heartland of California and the 
largest agricultural valley in the world. We specifically have 
a $500 million allocation for San Luis Reservoir, which is 
currently, I think, paused by the Trump administration. 
Hopefully, we are going to see some change there and be able to 
move forward with both upgrading the facility there and new 
construction.
    There are opportunities up and down the valley in 
California to develop additional water and power projects 
necessary to increase drought resilience and meet growing 
demand for power across my district. Affordable, clean power, 
by the way, that we should develop a lot more of on the West 
Coast. This includes some investments in major traditional 
above-ground storage like Sites Reservoir, which is a product 
of the bipartisan water bond that we did when I was in the 
State legislature. I was a co-author of the effort, and it will 
be the first major reservoir built in California in half a 
century.
    The Federal Government has a responsibility--I want to 
underscore that--in helping to fund these type of projects. And 
I think some of the efforts back here in Washington to cap the 
Federal cost share and other things that have gone on are 
inappropriate. We probably need to look at those and re-examine 
them. I would hope that my colleagues across the aisle would 
join me in those efforts. But I welcome and support efforts 
that would bring us new water and hydropower development.
    But it is also crucial that we make sure that protecting 
existing projects that can continue to deliver both affordable 
water but also energy, and my understanding is in the next 10 
years we are going to see nearly 300 hydropower projects that 
will need re-licensing by FERC, and those projects will expire.
    I continue to hear constantly about hydropower projects 
being held up by Federal agencies imposing fish passage and 
species protections, as well as, in some cases, using this 
bureaucratic process to leverage more water out of the existing 
systems in tandem with State regulation causes hydropower 
owners and electric customers to address issues way beyond the 
actual effects of the project. It both increases the cost of 
energy, but also limits the availability of water, which is 
critical when you are feeding the world out of California. Two-
thirds of the fresh fruits and vegetables come out of our 
valley. We do more dairy in one county of the five counties I 
represent than entire States in this country. So for those that 
don't appreciate the magnitude and the scope of California 
agriculture this is absolutely a critical issue.
    So Mr. Webb, what impacts can regulatory uncertainty have 
on production and management of hydropower facilities?
    And what actions could this Committee take to streamline 
these processes and avoid these inappropriate two bites at the 
apple opportunities that State agencies as well as Federal 
agencies are taking on these facilities as it relates to both 
water and power?
    Mr. Webb. Thank you, sir, for the question.
    And I am involved in a re-license project right now for a 
small project that we built in 1942--I wasn't there, but in 
1942--and this is our third license. It takes about 5 years, 
and each time there are things added, like you mentioned, that 
devalue the project. We are asked to do things that don't 
actually have anything to do with the project. We are required 
to do expensive studies that on a small project is a big bite. 
It really adds to the cost.
    So I think streamlining things, if we could be more focused 
on the impacts of that project and not other things in the 
surrounding area, looking at it as a deep pocket that, hey, if 
you are going to re-license this, we want you to do these other 
things. I think it needs to be focused on the project and 
streamlined, and it is very lengthy and it is very costly.
    Mr. Gray. I appreciate that, thank you.
    Madam Chair, I hope to work with colleagues on both sides 
of the aisle to find solutions that bring certainty to the 
operators during this process, ultimately delivering water and 
generating hydropower. We need to find these workable solutions 
with the Federal agencies and stop this double dipping and 
really streamline the process. So I appreciate the time today.
    I want to close by just saying both the Tuolumne River and 
the Merced River in my district are currently engaged in 
discussions with State of California, trying to find a path 
forward through a negotiated process on water. And what is 
happening with these hydropower projects is having a really 
detrimental effect to the availability of water to the farms 
that really need it. So I appreciate the Committee's 
consideration in this hearing today.
    And I will yield back the rest of my time.
    Ms. Hageman. Well, I appreciate that.
    We have a couple of other folks who are trying to get here, 
and we have got a lot of Committee hearings and markups going 
on today, which is why you are seeing people come in and out. 
There is a couple of points that I think are well worth making 
in light of our discussion and in light of the importance of 
this issue.
    Mr. Gray, I want to thank you for your comments and your 
efforts to try to streamline this.
    We are going to do a second round of questioning, just 
because we are waiting for the next folks to come in here.
    So Mr. Gray, you will have an opportunity, if you want to, 
after I have taken my time here.
    It seems to me, Mr. Webb, that these agencies are 
attempting to impose what I would describe as unconstitutional 
conditions. In other words, they cannot condition approval of a 
permit or a project based upon requiring you to do something 
that is unrelated to that project or that is not part of the 
necessity of that project. So I would encourage you to look 
into that.
    I also cannot understand why existing projects are not 
already considered part of the baseline, and why every 5 to 10 
years or 25 years we are having to go back in and entirely redo 
our permitting process. That makes absolutely no sense to me.
    A good friend of mine who used to be on this Committee from 
California, John, used to say that we could be either champions 
of abundance or lords of scarcity. I am tired of the lords of 
scarcity. I am tired of the people who believe that we have to 
try to find some way to prevent us from building, operating, 
and using these resources that we have. And that is why it was 
important to have all of you in here today.
    Mr. Sigl, in your testimony you talked about the importance 
of the timeliness of these environmental reviews and efficient 
permitting. Do you have any thoughts on specific steps that 
Congress could take to improve the Federal permitting process?
    And I am going to ask every one of you that same question.
    Mr. Sigl. Thank you very much for the question, Chair.
    And we have been operating the Reclamation project over 
many, many years prior to the National Environmental Policy 
Act, the Endangered Species Act, and Clean Water Act. And we 
have adapted to that under the Endangered Species Act, in 
particular. We have sought out incidental take permits and 
habitat conservation plans for our operations. There is plenty 
of opportunity, I think, to streamline the regulatory process 
in developing and operating these projects. And we want to work 
closely with anybody, including you in this Committee, to help 
work through those.
    Ms. Hageman. Well, if you have those ideas, we would ask 
you to get them to us because we are very interested.
    Ms. Bushman, what could we do? What are your ideas for 
streamlining the permitting process so we can actually build 
hard infrastructure?
    I am not talking about endless studies. I am not talking 
about going out and studying the smelt for the seventeen-
thousandth time. I am talking about what do we do to streamline 
the permitting process so we can build infrastructure to meet 
the demands of the citizens of this country.
    Ms. Bushman. One thing we can do is have our Federal 
agencies work closely together with our State agencies so that 
that environmental review that is required on both sides can 
happen at the same time and be coordinated. That doesn't always 
work because they have different requirements. Sometimes State 
legislatures have required certain things, and the Federal 
agencies have to meet certain Federal mandates, as well.
    But to the extent that we can coordinate those so that you 
only have to do the same environmental review once, and do it 
early, coordinate early rather than having States tacked on as 
an afterthought, would streamline that and speed up that 
process significantly.
    Ms. Hageman. I like that idea. Don't you agree that 
California needs to build additional water infrastructure to 
meet the demands of its citizens and agriculture?
    Ms. Bushman. Yes, we are dealing with less water, and when 
water comes it comes with more intensity. And the only way to 
manage that in the West is with greater infrastructure.
    Ms. Hageman. I don't think we are dealing with less water. 
We have had obstruction for so long to building infrastructure 
that we are making a lot of excuses for this. But we need to 
build the infrastructure to meet these demands. Don't you 
agree?
    Ms. Bushman. Agreed.
    Ms. Hageman. OK, Mr. Webb, what do you think we could do to 
streamline this process?
    Mr. Webb. Well, my perspective is, obviously, from a small 
project, two small projects. But it seems like if we knew ahead 
of time what the clear requirements were, but it seems like 
personal agendas and mission creep come into play, and so it is 
kind of a moving target. So from my perspective on our small 
projects, being very clear up front what is required would help 
us.
    Ms. Hageman. OK. Are they still on the way? I think that 
they should be here any minute.
    Mr. Gray, if you have additional questioning, why don't we 
go ahead and go with you?
    Mr. Gray. Well, I appreciate that. I am going to pick up 
where I left off, talking about the Tuolumne River, 
specifically. I am going to highlight this because we can have 
real win-win situations when Federal agencies work 
constructively with operators. And in the case of the Tuolumne 
River, the Modesto and Turlock Irrigation Districts worked with 
the Fish and Wildlife Service during their FERC re-licensing 
process to develop a plan accelerating $80 million in habitat 
and other improvements that will benefit wildlife species and 
ensure that Don Pedro Reservoir can continue to deliver 
reliable water and power supply.
    We have other examples with floodplain restoration projects 
in California. We did about $50 million of those projects in 
the last 5 years out of the State legislature. Of course, I am 
going to underscore again the point, Madam Chair, that the 
Federal Government could pick up the tab on a major investment 
in that space, as well. And I think if we take an all-of-the-
above approach, we could actually really move the needle on the 
available water in California for both habitat and for farming 
communities.
    But I want to open the question up again on how do we 
ensure Federal agencies work with operators so existing 
hydropower infrastructure can continue to operate? And I heard 
a comment that the coordination between the State and the 
Federal agencies could be improved, or could be an opportunity. 
But it also can be a hindrance because, in some cases, these 
agencies are using a duplicative process to get two bites at 
the apple for more water out of a certain project or making the 
voluntary agreement or the negotiated agreement unattainable.
    So I certainly want to hear how we ensure the Federal 
agencies work with the operators and with locals, but we avoid 
these duplicative requirements, I guess. What can the Federal 
Government do to ensure that we don't have that situation?
    Ms. Bushman. Is that for me?
    Mr. Gray. It certainly can be.
    [Laughter.]
    Ms. Bushman. OK.
    Mr. Gray. That is an all-takers question.
    Ms. Bushman. I would say that there is room for improvement 
on both the Federal and the State side. I think that often the 
States are tacked on as an afterthought, and then they have to 
do their environmental reviews that are required by their State 
legislatures. In doing that, some of that does become 
duplicative. And it doesn't have to be that way. That is going 
to require some federalism engagement. That means the State 
agencies and the Federal agencies are going to have to work 
together and improve that process.
    So there is that room for improvement. We haven't really 
engaged in that up to this point, so encouraging that, and 
Congress may have a role in encouraging that opportunity, but 
also ensuring that the environmental reviews that we are doing 
are relevant to the projects that need to be done.
    Mr. Gray. I would certainly like to see Congress encourage 
that, and I will say one other example, somewhat unrelated, but 
related. Different States categorize hydroelectricity as clean 
and renewable power, and other States don't.
    And there might be a role for some Federal leadership, 
Madam Chair, in trying to establish that as a Federal goal 
across the board in all States, because I think these projects 
are invaluable both for the cheap and affordable energy, as 
well as the important delivery of our water resources.
    I yield back my time.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Crank 
for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Crank. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I apologize. I had 
to preside over the House. And as usual, they have us doing 40 
things here at one time.
    Water infrastructure maintained by Reclamation and local 
operators, from storage facilities to canals to hydropower, 
provides critical benefit to all types of water users, from 
agriculture, municipalities, and recreation. And for example, 
Reclamation is the second largest producer of hydroelectric 
power in the country, owning 77 facilities and directly 
operating 53 of them, and that generates 15,000 megawatts of 
power that benefit Coloradans and others across the West.
    Of course, aging infrastructure is a growing challenge for 
communities, and many of these assets are now well beyond their 
original life expectancy. The 2024 State of the Infrastructure 
Report from the Army Corps and Reclamation found ``Dams built 
over 50 years ago are operating at reduced capacity to comply 
with current safety design and construction standards.'' And 
then the report says, ``Water storage capacity in some 
reservoirs has decreased due to sediment accumulation, reducing 
both water supply and power generation. Pipes that have been in 
service for 25 to 60 years are starting to fail.'' And we have 
gone from decades of build, build, build to decades of 
maintain, maintain, maintain, and now we are at a turning 
point. And Congress needs to begin planning how to replace 
aging infrastructure efficiently and responsibly.
    But here is the problem: Dumping billions of dollars into 
Reclamation or other agencies alone isn't enough because 
projects still face slow, outdated, and often duplicative 
Federal permitting processes. Streamlining permitting is key. 
It is not just about faster projects; it is about unleashing 
not only American energy, but American infrastructure.
    And I want to thank the Chairwoman for making the point on 
how important permitting reform really is.
    In your testimony you noted that SRP's integrated system 
plan anticipates significant load growth on the grid in the 
coming decade, with a record peak last August of 8,200 
megawatts. We also know that energy demand is projected to 
surge across the U.S. in the years ahead. Given this outlook, 
how important is it that we continue investing in hydropower, 
including the upgrades SRP is pursuing, Mr. Sigl?
    Mr. Sigl. Well, thank you for the question, Congressman. As 
you noted, our integrated system plan projected various load 
growths that we could anticipate, and it seems like what we are 
experiencing is the highest load growth in our service area.
    Hydropower is very important. As I noted in my testimony, 
we are talking about a pumped storage project to make some 
renewable sources more reliable.
    I think everybody on the planet has to look at what 
resources that they have available and develop them as fully as 
possible to meet their purposes, and that is an opportunity for 
us.
    We have sort of an all-of-the-above approach to meeting our 
electricity demand. Even increasing from a pipeline capacity to 
support some of the natural gas plants that we are going to 
need in the future is also important for us.
    But hydropower is an important component. And 
interestingly, it was what got us in the power business in the 
first place. The original Roosevelt Dam had hydropower 
generators on it, and then we constructed three additional dams 
for the purpose of producing more hydropower on the project. 
And that was our early experience, and now it is almost like we 
are going full circle to develop more hydropower on the Salt 
River Project.
    Mr. Crank. Well, thank you. And as this Committee continues 
examining aging infrastructure and water issues across the 
West, I want to point out the Transportation and Infrastructure 
Committee already operates on a 2-year cycle to authorize Army 
Corps projects, and it is time that this Committee explores a 
more regular, predictable path for authorizing Reclamation 
projects so we can begin to address this backlog in needs for 
Western communities.
    And finally, I would just say Colorado is in kind of a 
unique place, my home State. We don't have rivers that flow 
into Colorado. All of our rivers flow out of Colorado. So if we 
don't build storage, we are in particularly tough shape.
    Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you, and the Chair now recognizes Mr. 
Soto for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Soto. Thank you so much.
    With the extreme weather, it really makes some of this 
stuff tricky. We on the East Coast in Florida have hurricanes 
but even a drought right now. Hopefully not for long. We are 
getting into our rain season in Florida, but we even see up the 
East Coast drought conditions in what is otherwise a very ample 
water supply area.
    We saw in the Infrastructure Act, as well as in the IRA, 
there was $15 billion in Western water funding to help improve 
supply, even as we are working on trying to maintain hydropower 
as a critical part of our renewable portfolio.
    Ms. Bushman, how do you think it is going so far with the 
$15 billion allocation and the work being done out West?
    Ms. Bushman. I can't speak to that directly because I don't 
know where each and every one of those dollars is going. But I 
do know that there have been improvements in the recent past to 
our infrastructure. But there is a long way to go. Just with 
the Federal dams alone, there is $50 billion worth of safety 
needs that need to be addressed, and that $15 billion is a 
small drop in that bucket. But it is significant and it is 
helpful, and we do need that infrastructure in order to manage 
our water in the West.
    Mr. Soto. Now, we see a possibility of the funds being 
rescinded through a reconciliation package coming up. What do 
you think that would mean for Western water supply?
    Ms. Bushman. The need still exists. It doesn't go away.
    Mr. Soto. I wanted to pose a question to the whole council. 
We are seeing tariffs now in place that are affecting a lot of 
equipment, both in telecommunications, the hearing I was just 
at, and in electrical equipment. It would be great to hear from 
each of you whether it is affecting you all or not, or what do 
you expect over the next couple of months. And we will start 
with Mr. Webb, Mr. Haswell, then Mr. Sigl.
    Mr. Webb. Yes, well, we have seen the lead time on a lot of 
our equipment--transformers, wire, other things--has been 
pushed out a little bit, so we have to do a little bit better 
planning when we are looking at projects, to make sure the 
equipment is going to be here on time. And so I think it does 
make the supply chain a little bit stretched. But yes, that 
would just be my perspective.
    Mr. Soto. Sure. Mr. Haswell, what are you seeing?
    Mr. Haswell. So far, no direct impacts. We have sufficient 
time in our construction roadmap to adjust. But there may be 
impacts for our sub-sea electrical systems, but that is the 
only area on our horizon right now.
    Mr. Soto. OK. Mr. Sigl?
    Mr. Sigl. Yes, the projects that I mentioned that we are 
working on developing are still in the development stage, so we 
haven't really gotten into the supply chain aspect yet.
    Mr. Soto. My next question is we see as negative growth 
this first quarter, unfortunately, something we are hoping to 
see turn around. But if not, we could be in a recession over 
the next 3 months. It would be great to know. Are you seeing 
any pullback in investment?
    We will start with Mr. Webb, and then we will go across 
again.
    Are you seeing any pullback, Mr. Webb, in access to 
capital?
    Mr. Webb. In our area, we are a small electric cooperative 
and natural gas cooperative, and we have not seen a pullback, 
and our area continues to grow. And so we haven't seen the 
impact.
    Mr. Soto. Ms. Bushman, have you seen in your area any 
pullback in investment so far?
    Ms. Bushman. I don't know about pullback in investments, 
but there are matching programs that are State and Federal and 
the State matches there, and the Federal has been pulling back 
in terms of grants or financing, other forms of financial 
assistance. And so that money is still there waiting, and the 
projects have been postponed until that funding appears again.
    Mr. Soto. Mr. Haswell, have you seen any difference in 
access to capital lately?
    Mr. Haswell. Zero at this point. The capital that we 
access, certainly in the private sector, tends to think in 
decades. So the quarter-to-quarter fluctuations have no impact.
    Mr. Soto. OK. And Mr. Sigl?
    Mr. Sigl. I am not aware of any.
    Mr. Soto. OK. Thank you so much, and I yield back.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. And again, I want to thank the 
witnesses for your valuable testimony and the members for their 
questions.
    The members of the Committee may have some additional 
questions for the witnesses, and we will ask for you to respond 
to those in writing.
    And as I indicated a moment ago, if you have ideas in which 
we can streamline permitting, please provide those to the 
Committee so that we can start acting upon them.
    Under Committee rule 3, members of the Committee must 
submit questions to the Subcommittee clerk by 5 p.m. Eastern on 
Monday, May 5. The hearing record will be held open for 10 
business days for these responses.
    Without objection, the Subcommittee stands adjourned.

    [Whereupon, at 11:33 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

            [ADDITIONAL MATERIALS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD]

Submissions for the Record by Rep. Bentz

 Prepared Statement of Michael Purdie, Director of Regulatory Affairs 
     and Markets, on behalf of the National Hydropower Association

    Chairwoman Hageman, Ranking Member Hoyle, and Members of the 
Subcommittee--thank you for hosting this hearing. On behalf of the 
National Hydropower Association, I appreciate the opportunity to 
supplement the record with written testimony.
    Hydropower and pumped storage are uniquely situated technologies to 
ensure a reliable electric grid for the 21st century. Hydropower 
technologies not only function as baseload resources, but they're also 
capable of being dispatched up and down to meet the needs of the grid. 
Grid operators also rely on hydropower technologies provide essential 
grid services such as frequency control and spinning reserves. Finally, 
if the grid suffers a major outage as we just saw in Spain and 
Portugal, hydropower provides 40% of the black start capability in the 
United States. No other technology provides all these services in an 
emission-free manner. Not only does hydropower provide all of these 
services, communities rely on hydropower infrastructure for recreation, 
food control, irrigation, and navigation.
    Therefore, it is imperative that we improve the permitting process 
in the United States to not only maintain the existing feet of 
resources but expand our base. The need to do so exists today. We 
cannot wait.
    Approximately half of the feet is regulated by the Federal Energy 
Regulatory Commission (FERC) and the other half is owned by the federal 
government (Tennessee Valley Authority, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, 
and U.S. Bureau of Reclamation) with much of it marketed by the four 
Power Marketing Administrations. Currently, there are nearly 200 
applications for new or original licenses at the FERC. There are 
approximately 50,000 MWs for new resources either in the FERC licensing 
process or those who have received preliminary permits. These 
applications go through a review process that spreads across 11 
different agencies and can take nearly a decade to review after they're 
fled at the FERC.
    The federal feet is also threatened by those entities who advocate 
for removal of dam infrastructure even though those facilities provide 
unique benefits to the grid and their communities. Between protecting 
communities in the Tennessee valley during Hurricane Helene in the fall 
of 2024 or ensuring the lights stay on in the Pacific Northwest during 
Martin Luther King Jr. weekend in 2024, the federal feet continues to 
serve its communities with low-cost hydropower.
    On behalf of the hydropower industry, I suggest the following 
reforms at the Departments of Interior, Commerce, etc. to improve the 
standing of hydropower in the United States.

     Pass H.R. 1897--ESA Amendments Act of 2025.

     Modify the Federal Power Act (FPA) to ensure that 
            mandatory conditions submitted under FPA Section 4(e) (16 
            U.S.C. Sec. 797(e)) are limited to provisions that mitigate 
            future, direct effects of the project and balance all uses 
            of federal lands that occur over the license term.

     Reform the FPA to ensure that fishway prescriptions under 
            FPA Section 18 (16 U.S.C. Sec. 811) are justified through a 
            cost-benefit analysis, that demonstrates direct, 
            substantial, and quantifiable improvements to fish 
            populations, and are limited to provisions that mitigate 
            future, direct effects of the project occurring over the 
            license term.

     Improve the trial-type hearing process by establishing 
            that the Secretary concerned bears the burden of proof by a 
            preponderance of the evidence for any condition or 
            prescription fled with FERC by the Secretary concerned or 
            their designee under FPA sections 4(e), 18, or 33 (16 
            U.S.C. Sec. 823d); and establishing that a Secretary 
            concerned shall not include in their submission of modified 
            conditions or fishway prescriptions any new requirement 
            that was absent in their preliminary prescriptions.

    These simple, yet important process improvements would ensure that 
the licensing process for hydropower, where the Secretaries of 
Interior, Commerce, Agriculture, or Army are involved, is materially 
enhanced. I urge Congress to take up and pass these important reforms 
so that we can ensure hydropower and pumped storage can enable American 
energy dominance now and into the future.

                                 ______
                                 

Submissions for the Record by Rep. Hoyle

                          American Whitewater

                            Springfield, OR

                                                 April 30, 2025    

Hon. Harriet Hageman, Chair
Hon. Val Hoyle, Ranking Member
House Natural Resources Committee
Subcommittee on Water, Wildlife and Fisheries
1324 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515

RE: Advancing Federal Water and Hydropower Development: A Stakeholder 
Perspective

    Dear Chair Hageman and Ranking Member Hoyle:

    American Whitewater is pleased to offer this testimony on the 
Oversight Hearing titled ``Advancing Federal Water and Hydropower 
Development: A Stakeholder's Perspective'' held by the Subcommittee on 
Water, Wildlife and Fisheries on Wednesday, April 30, 2025. We write 
today to respectfully share that the current regulatory limits on 
hydropower development and operations are essential to protecting 
important values that Americans care deeply about. It would not be in 
the public interest to reduce or eliminate those limits in order to 
favor hydropower development or generation.
    American Whitewater is a national non-profit 501(c)(3) river 
conservation organization founded in 1954 with approximately 50,000 
supporters, 6,000 dues-paying members, and 100 local-based affiliate 
clubs, representing whitewater enthusiasts across the nation. American 
Whitewater's mission is to protect and restore America's whitewater 
rivers and to enhance opportunities to enjoy them safely. The 
organization is the primary advocate for the preservation and 
protection of whitewater rivers throughout the United States, and 
connects the interests of human-powered recreational river users with 
ecological and science-based data to achieve the goals within its 
mission. American Whitewater has many decades of experience engaging in 
the relicensing of well over 100 Federal Energy Regulatory Commission 
regulated dams, as well as the operation of numerous federal dams that 
directly impact the public's use and enjoyment of our public waterways.
    The National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) and the Federal Energy 
Regulatory Commission (FERC) dam relicensing process provide the forum 
for the public, and organizations like ours, to share what matters to 
them with regulators, and for regulators to weigh those interests 
against others. It ensures the public has a meaningful role in 
protecting and restoring the rivers that flow through their communities 
and that are impacted by hydropower projects. Businesses and community 
leaders can highlight economically important outdoor recreation 
resources.
    Scientists and citizens can raise the needs of fisheries that are 
important biologically, economically, and culturally. Farmers and 
municipalities can explain the need for good water quality and 
quantity. Tribal governments have an opportunity to highlight cultural 
connections to waterways that have sustained them since time 
immemorial. Collectively these voices and interests, given regulatory 
weight and opportunity, result in good, balanced outcomes that are in 
the public interest. Power companies and the federal government cannot 
be expected to know what river-based communities need to flourish. 
Rather, it is almost always perspectives from the public that lead to 
the efficient and meaningful protection and enhancement of outdoor 
recreation, quality of life, and local river-based economies through 
the public engagement opportunities afforded by NEPA and the FERC 
licensing process. Protecting the role of the public is vital to 
ensuring fair and positive outcomes for communities.
    Like our wise commitment to public participation in decision-
making, our nation is rightly and legislatively committed to protecting 
threatened and endangered species from extinction. These species 
include numerous runs of salmon and steelhead in the western United 
States that are economically, culturally, and ecologically vital to the 
region's future. Scientists, including those from the U.S. Forest 
Service and National Marine Fisheries Service, are in the best position 
to understand how to ensure those species are recovered, and their 
ability to meaningfully engage in hydropower development and operation 
decisions is essential to the continuation of imperiled species. 
Ensuring these species persist is a legacy we owe to current and future 
generations.
    The timeline for hydropower licensing is neither excessively long 
nor burdensome; it is appropriate given the significant public interest 
in the multifaceted values of our rivers that must be carefully 
balanced. The Integrated Licensing Process (ILP), established in 2003, 
was designed with clear timelines and deliverables for the Federal 
Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC), licensees, resource agencies, and 
other stakeholders. A 2021 assessment by the Department of Energy (DOE) 
concluded that the ILP offers the shortest and most consistent timeline 
among available processes.\1\ On average, licensing under the ILP takes 
5.9 years, closely aligning with the expected 5.5-year timeframe 
specified in regulations. Importantly, the DOE found that the choice of 
licensing process significantly influences the issuance timeline.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ NREL, An Examination of the Hydropower Licensing and Federal 
Authorization Process (2021). Available at: .
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Alternative and Traditional processes, chosen by licensees in some 
cases, tend to prolong the licensing period compared to the ILP. The 
DOE's assessment identifies incomplete or inadequate information, 
provided by licensees, as a primary factor contributing to extended 
timelines. Addressing these informational gaps, and requiring licensees 
to provide required information to regulatory agencies in a more timely 
fashion could streamline the process and enhance efficiency across all 
licensing pathways.
    As a general matter, 5.5 years is an appropriate duration for the 
hydropower licensing process. Breaking the ILP timeline down, 
stakeholders have a year to develop study plans, two years to conduct 
studies and for the licensee to file a license application, and then 
two years for FERC to take the study information, release a draft and 
final environmental document and finally issue a new license. The idea 
that the completion of the licensing process is unnecessarily long is a 
narrative perpetuated by those with little knowledge of the process.
    We respectfully urge you to look beyond the regulations shaping 
hydropower development and consider the people those rules protect: the 
rafting outfitter whose livelihood depends on reliable dam releases, 
the families who rely on salmon and steelhead for food and income, and 
the countless others who depend on healthy, functioning rivers. 
Loosening these safeguards to accelerate hydropower growth would come 
at a real cost to nearly every other river-dependent community. The 
NEPA process and FERC relicensing already provide a framework where 
hydropower operators can generate power while balancing the broader 
public interest. We welcome continued dialogue with the Committee and 
strongly support oversight that ensures all stakeholders--especially 
those directly affected--are heard in shaping the future of our rivers.
    Thank you for considering this testimony.

            Sincerely,

                                          Kevin R. Colburn,
                                      National Stewardship Director

                                 [all]