[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                  WHY THE WAIT? UNPACKING CALIFORNIA'S
                   UNTIMELY ELECTION COUNTING PROCESS

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                           COMMITTEE ON HOUSE
                             ADMINISTRATION

                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                             APRIL 29, 2025

                               __________

      Printed for the use of the Committee on House Administration
      
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]      

                             www.govinfo.gov
                           www.cha.house.gov
                           
                                __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
60-223                      WASHINGTON : 2025                  
            
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------                            

                  COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION

                    BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin, Chairman

LAUREL LEE, Florida, Vice Chair      JOSEPH MORELLE, New York,
BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia                 Ranking Member
H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, Virginia         TERRI A. SEWELL, Alabama
GREG MURPHY, North Carolina          NORMA TORRES, California
STEPHANIE BICE, Oklahoma             JULIE JOHNSON, Texas
MARY MILLER, Illinois
MIKE CAREY, Ohio

                      Mike Platt,  Staff Director 
                 Jamie Fleet,  Minority Staff Director 
                        
                        
                        C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

                           Opening Statements

Chairman Bryan Steil, Representative from the State of Wisconsin.     1
    Prepared statement of Chairman Bryan Steil...................     3
Ranking Member Joseph Morelle, Representative from the State of 
  New York.......................................................     4
    Prepared statement of Ranking Member Joseph Morelle..........     6

                               Witnesses

Ashlee Titus, partner, Bell, McAndrews & Hiltachk, LLP...........     7
    Prepared statement of Ashlee Titus...........................    10
Austin Gilbert, co-owner, Right Choice Strategies, LLC...........    17
    Prepared statement of Austin Gilbert.........................    19
Hon. Donald Palmer, chairman, Election Assistance Commission.....    20
    Prepared statement of Hon. Donald Palmer.....................    23
Rebecca Nowatchik, Director of External Partnerships, Secure 
  Families Initiative, Inc.......................................    26
    Prepared statement of Rebecca Nowatchik......................    28

                       Submissions for the Record

Cole Patterson letter............................................    34
Remote access letter.............................................    45
Orange County grand jury report..................................    46
Dean Logan letter................................................    71

                        Questions for the Record

Donald Palmer answers to submitted questions.....................    92
Ashlee Titus answers to submitted questions......................    96
Rebecca Nowatchik answers to submitted questions.................    98

 
                  WHY THE WAIT? UNPACKING CALIFORNIA'S
                   UNTIMELY ELECTION COUNTING PROCESS

                              ----------                              


                             April 29, 2025

                 Committee on House Administration,
                                  House of Representatives,
                                                   Washington, D.C.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:32, in room 
1310, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Bryan Steil 
[Chairman of the Committee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Steil, Bice, Miller, Morelle, 
Sewell, and Torres.
    Staff present: Mike Platt, Staff Director; Rachel Collins, 
General Counsel; Abby Salter, Deputy General Counsel Jordan 
Wilson, Director of Member Services; Kristen Monterroso, 
Director of Operations; Josh Weber, Counsel; Jamie Fleet, 
Minority Staff Director; Khalil Abboud, Minority Deputy Staff 
Director; Sean Wright, Minority Chief Counsel; Sarah Nasta, 
Minority Senior Advisor; Nikolas Youngsmith, Minority Elections 
Counsel; and Owen Reilly, Minority Professional Staff.

    OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BRYAN STEIL, CHAIRMAN OF THE 
 COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM 
                           WISCONSIN

    Chairman Steil. The Committee on House Administration will 
come to order.
    The title of today's hearing is ``Why the Wait: Unpacking 
California's Untimely Election Counting Process.''
    I note that a quorum is present. Without objection, the 
chair may declare a recess at any time. Also, without 
objection, the hearing record will remain open for 5 
legislative days so Members may submit any material they wish 
to be included therein.
    Thank you, Ranking Member Morelle, Members of the 
Committee, and our witnesses, for participating in today's 
hearing.
    Today, the Committee on House Administration will continue 
its oversight of Federal election policies. As the Chairman of 
the Committee, it is a top priority of mine to improve Federal 
election law and increase transparency for American voters.
    During the 2024 election cycle, 155 million Americans 
across the country cast their ballot in the elections for 
President, Senate, House of Representatives, and State and 
local elections as well. Over 16 million of those votes were 
cast in the State of California.
    Most Americans watched election results being announced on 
election night. That was not the case in California. According 
to the Associated Press, it was not until December 4, nearly a 
month later, that all of the California races were ultimately 
called. The longer it takes to provide the results of an 
election, the more voters can lose trust and become frustrated 
with the process.
    Today, we will examine the reasons for California's delay 
in reporting results. A major cause of the delay in California 
election results is the State's universal mail system, which is 
prone to delays, tabulation, and ultimately the calling of 
races.
    The ability to vote by mail in California has been 
available in the State since 1982, and State lawmakers have 
continuously expanded the bounds of mail-in voting ever since.
    In 2022, the California Legislature codified pandemic-era 
procedural laws and enacted universal vote-by-mail for every 
election administered by the State. In other words, every 
registered voter in California gets a mail-in ballot. This not 
only opens the door for potential fraud, but it also causes 
delays on the counting side.
    Another issue we will explore today includes accepting 
ballots after Election Day. Currently, California accepts 
ballots delivered up to 7 days after election day. We will 
discuss with our witnesses if that means it needs to be 
postmarked, what happens if it is not postmarked, what happens 
if it is dated/not dated by the candidate.
    California accepts ballots collected up to 7 days after 
Election Day. This matters because on Election Day California 
does not know how many ballots will be cast, and so, results 
for close elections cannot be announced in a timely manner.
    Make no mistake, it is California's own State policies that 
are creating these significant delays in election reporting. 
While other States are taking steps to implement positive 
change, California spent 50 years moving in the other 
direction.
    For example, in a State like Florida, with a population of 
23 million, Florida is able to report election results on 
election night. Following the 2000 election, of course, Florida 
took a serious look at its own election policies and passed a 
law to ensure ballots are actually counted on and by election 
night.
    California's system also does not really increase voter 
participation. Timely election results, I believe, builds voter 
confidence and can increase voter turnout. In Florida, voter 
turnout was 78.9 percent of registered voters, a record high. 
California's participation in the 2024 election was 71.4 
percent of registered voters.
    Florida requires absentee ballots to be delivered to local 
election offices by the close of polls on Election Day. Florida 
absentee voters may cure ballot discrepancies within 2 days 
after the elections. In California, voters have up to 28 days 
to cure absentee ballots. Twenty-eight days, it is a long time, 
something we can be discussing with our witnesses as well.
    In November, 3 days after the election, I traveled to Los 
Angeles County Central Count and got to witness the tabulating 
process in Los Angeles County firsthand. When I arrived 3 days 
after the election, L.A. Central Count still had 900,000 
outstanding ballots that needed to be tabulated.
    That is in L.A. County alone. That is not the State of 
California; 900,000 total just in L.A. County. It was an 
amazing experience to walk through the L.A. Central Count. I 
think we have an opportunity to talk with our witnesses about 
the reforms that could be made.
    This is uniquely important, because the balance in the U.S. 
House of Representatives at that time still had not been 
determined, in large part, because the races in California were 
not called due to the lax election laws that are resulting in 
these delays. The rest of the country should not have to wait 
on California to know the results of the elections.
    We are looking at California particularly today because 
they have continued to move the goalpost in their election 
policies. California's election administration highlights why 
Congress must conduct oversight of States' Federal elections 
and determine whether it might be necessary to enforce baseline 
standards on election integrity.
    I thank our witnesses for being here today. We are going to 
have a great conversation about what is going right and what is 
going wrong in elections across the country, but in particular, 
what is going wrong in the State of California. I thank our 
witnesses for being here today and look forward to our 
discussion.
    I will now recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Morelle, for 5 
minutes for the purposes of providing his opening statement.
    [The prepared statement of Chairman Steil follows:]

   PREPARED STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE ON HOUSE 
                   ADMINISTRATION BRYAN STEIL

    Today, the Committee on House Administration will continue 
its oversight of Federal election policy. As the Chairman of 
the Committee, it has been a top priority of mine to improve 
Federal election law and increase transparency with American 
voters. During the 2024 election cycle, over 155 million 
Americans across the country cast their ballot in elections for 
President, Senate, the House of Representatives, and local and 
State positions.
    Over 16 million of those votes were cast in California. 
Most Americans watched election results being announced on 
election night. This was not the case in California. According 
to the Associated Press, it was not until December 4--nearly a 
month later--that all of California's races were called. The 
longer it takes to provide the results of an election, the more 
voters lose trust and become frustrated with the process.
    Today, we will examine the reasons for California's delay 
in reporting results. A major cause for delay in California's 
election results is the State's universal vote-by-mail system, 
which is prone to delays in voting, tabulation and, ultimately, 
calling of races. The ability to vote by mail in California has 
been available since 1982, and State lawmakers have continued 
to expand the bounds of mail-in voting since.
    In 2022, the California legislature codified pandemic-era 
procedural laws and enacted universal vote by mail for every 
election administered by the State. In other words--every 
registered voter in California gets a mail-in ballot. This is 
an unsecure way to run an election. Another issue we will 
explore today includes accepting ballots after Election Day.
    Currently, California accepts ballots delivered up to seven 
days after Election Day. We are going to talk to our witnesses 
about this. This means that on Election Day, California will 
not know how many ballots are cast or be able to report results 
for close elections. Make no mistake, it is California's own 
State policies that are creating the significant delay in 
election reporting.
    While other States are taking steps to implement positive 
change, California has spent 50 years moving in the wrong 
direction. For example, a State like Florida with a population 
of over 23 million is able to report election results on 
election night. Following the 2000 election, Florida took a 
serious look at its own election policies and passed a law to 
ensure ballots are counted on election night.
    Timely election results builds voter confidence, which 
increases voter turn out. In Florida, voter turnout in 2024 was 
78.9% of registered voters, a record high. California's 
participation in the 2024 election was 71.4% of registered 
voters. Florida requires absentee ballots to be delivered to 
the local election office by the close of polls on Election 
Day. In Florida, absentee voters may cure ballot discrepancies 
within two days after the election. In California, voters have 
up to 28 days to cure absentee ballots. 28 days?! I think we 
can all agree that is well beyond an appropriate timeline.
    In November, I traveled to Los Angeles County three days 
after the election. At that time, they still had 900,000 
outstanding ballots that needed to be tabulated in Los Angeles 
County alone. The balance of power in the House of 
Representatives still had not been determined because of 
California's lax election laws that delay results. The rest of 
the country should not have to wait on California to know the 
results of an election.
    We are looking at California today because they have 
continued to move the goal posts in their election policies. 
California's election administration highlights why Congress 
must conduct oversight of the States' Federal elections and 
determine whether it might be necessary to enforce baseline 
standards of election integrity.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOSEPH MORELLE, RANKING MEMBER OF THE 
 COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM 
                            NEW YORK

    Mr. Morelle. Good morning. Thank you, Chairman Steil, for 
calling us together, and certainly, thank you to the witnesses 
for being here today.
    I appreciate any effort to improve electoral processes in 
California, or frankly, anywhere else in America, but I do want 
to be clear about one indisputable fact. There is no evidence 
that California's recent elections featured any irregularities 
or fraud.
    California's elections were legal and legitimate. How do we 
know? Because in November 2024, Republicans deployed election 
observers to more than half a dozen congressional districts 
across California. These observers monitored ballot tabulation 
and processing operations in California. They reported no 
instances of illegality or any serious election-related 
irregularities. What they reported was California election 
officials following the law. To be crystal clear, Republicans 
did not contest the outcome of a single congressional race in 
California under the Federal Contested Elections Act.
    To anyone watching this, please understand there is a 
longstanding mechanism for challenging congressional results 
that were improperly decided, and Republicans did not challenge 
any congressional results in California.
    There is no question, the ballots counted in California in 
the period after Election Day were legally cast by eligible 
American voters. That is undisputed. This hearing is not about 
making American elections more secure. We are holding the 
hearing because my colleagues simply dislike the way 
Californians voted. It is not the procedure Republicans 
actually have a problem with, it is the outcome.
    Now, there are always ways in every election in America 
that we could make them more efficient, and I am sure there is 
probably room in California for improvement in their elections 
to speed up the process.
    Standardizing notice deadlines and ballot cure review 
across California, these policies could probably streamline 
elections. We could be working in a bipartisan way to enhance 
election efficiency in California and elsewhere.
    Instead, we seek to make elections less efficient. My 
colleagues push policies that increase burdens on election 
administrators, policies that take a sledgehammer to free, 
fair, and secure American elections.
    The SAVE Act, for example, which was passed over our 
objections a couple weeks ago, allows any person to sue any 
election official based solely on mere suspicion that a 
noncitizen is registered to vote. How quickly will any State 
process ballots if election officials are besieged by endless 
frivolous lawsuits?
    The President's already deemed illegal anti-voting 
executive order could lead to the decertification of thousands 
of voting machines used across the United States. This deeply 
harmful executive order would cost States billions of dollars. 
It would fundamentally disrupt American elections.
    Both the SAVE Act and the executive order would eradicate 
voter registration by mail or online. This would wreak havoc on 
election administrations nationwide, and disenfranchise 
millions of military and overseas voters who rely on mail and 
online voter registration to exercise their sacred inalienable 
right to vote.
    Some proposed Republican policies would harm American 
elections so much, even prior Republican witnesses at this 
Committee caution against them. We have heard Republican 
witnesses warn of the inefficiency of processing hand-marked, 
hand-counted ballots, which have been advocated by Members of 
the House Republican Caucus. Forget about weeks to resolve an 
election, it would take months or years to have election 
results.
    Committee Democrats called a witness today to give voice to 
the military and overseas voters that would be harmed by 
Republican election policies. The record should reflect that 
our colleagues blocked Democrats' initial witness choice, a 
military spouse stationed overseas named Sarah Straiter, from 
appearing today.
    Sarah wanted to speak to this Committee about how we can 
better serve military and overseas voters. Because she is 
nearing the third trimester of her pregnancy, transatlantic 
travel presented a significant barrier for her attendance here.
    The majority denied our request for her to testify 
remotely, something we have the technology to facilitate. 
Because Sarah is a pregnant military spouse with travel 
limitations, she was not allowed to testify.
    It is not lost on us that if the SAVE Act were law, Sarah 
would also be unable to register to vote today, because it 
requires in-person voter registration. Women stationed overseas 
with pregnancy-related travel limitations would be barred from 
registering to vote.
    Today, the majority will attack completely legitimate 
elections in California. That is the idea here. Meanwhile, 
President Trump and congressional Republicans advance policies 
to create massive barriers to military voting.
    We have not held a single hearing on military and overseas 
voting. The VOTES Act, championed by Congress Members Frost and 
Lee, who is a Member here of this Committee, would increase 
military voter access, unlike the SAVE Act. Why are we 
discussing this today instead of that?
    We would happily waive this Committee's notice requirements 
to call the VOTES Act up right now to send it, once again, to 
the full House, so to defend rather than undermine legitimate 
American elections. Instead of wasting time, can we support 
military and overseas voters? I would hope we would.
    Thank you. I yield back my time.
    [The prepared statement of Ranking Member Morelle follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER OF THE COMMITTEE ON HOUSE 
                 ADMINISTRATION JOSEPH MORELLE

    California's elections were legal and legitimate. How do we 
know? Because in November of 2024, Republicans deployed 
election observers to more than half a dozen congressional 
districts across California. These observers monitored ballot 
tabulation and processing operations in California. They 
reported no instances of illegality or any serious election 
related irregularities. What they reported was California 
election officials following the law. To be crystal clear, 
Republicans did not contest the outcome of a single 
congressional race in California under the Federal Contested 
Elections Act.
    To anyone watching this, please understand there is a 
longstanding mechanism for challenging congressional results 
that were improperly decided, and Republicans did not challenge 
any congressional results in California. There is no question, 
the ballots counted in California in the period after Election 
Day were legally cast by eligible American voters. That is 
undisputed. This hearing is not about making American elections 
more secure. We are holding the hearing because my colleagues 
simply dislike the way Californians voted. It is not the 
procedure Republicans actually have a problem with, it is the 
outcome.
    Now, there are always ways in every election in America 
that we could make them more efficient, and I am sure there is 
probably room in California for improvement in their elections 
to speed up the process. Standardizing notice deadlines and 
ballot cure review across California, these policies could 
probably streamline elections. We could be working in a 
bipartisan way to enhance election efficiency in California and 
elsewhere. Instead, we seek to make elections less efficient. 
My colleagues push policies that increase burdens on election 
administrators, policies that take a sledgehammer to free, 
fair, and secure American elections.
    The SAVE Act, for example, which was passed over our 
objections a couple weeks ago, allows any person to sue any 
election official based solely on mere suspicion that a 
noncitizen is registered to vote. How quickly will any State 
process ballots if election officials are besieged by endless 
frivolous lawsuits? The President's already deemed illegal 
anti-voting executive order could lead to the decertification 
of thousands of voting machines used across the United States. 
This deeply harmful executive order would cost States billions 
of dollars. It would fundamentally disrupt American elections.
    Both the SAVE Act and the executive order would eradicate 
voter registration by mail or online. This would wreak havoc on 
election administrations nationwide, and disenfranchise 
millions of military and overseas voters who rely on mail and 
online voter registration to exercise their sacred inalienable 
right to vote.
    Some proposed Republican policies would harm American 
elections so much, even prior Republican witnesses at this 
Committee caution against them. We have heard Republican 
witnesses warn of the inefficiency of processing hand-marked, 
hand-counted ballots, which have been advocated by Members of 
the House Republican Caucus. Forget about weeks to resolve an 
election, it would take months or years to have election 
results.
    Committee Democrats called a witness today to give voice to 
the military and overseas voters that would be harmed by 
Republican election policies. The record should reflect that 
our colleagues blocked Democrats' initial witness choice, a 
military spouse stationed overseas named Sarah Straiter, from 
appearing today. Sarah wanted to speak to this Committee about 
how we can better serve military and overseas voters. Because 
she is nearing the third trimester of her pregnancy, 
transatlantic travel presented a significant barrier for her 
attendance here.
    The majority denied our request for her to testify 
remotely, something we have the technology to facilitate. 
Because Sarah is a pregnant military spouse with travel 
limitations, she was not allowed to testify. It is not lost on 
us that if the SAVE Act were law, Sarah would also be unable to 
register to vote today, because it requires in person voter 
registration. Women stationed overseas with pregnancy related 
travel limitations would be barred from registering to vote.
    Today, the majority will attack completely legitimate 
elections in California. That is the idea here. Meanwhile, 
President Trump and congressional Republicans advance policies 
to create massive barriers to military voting. We have not held 
a single hearing on military and overseas voting. The VOTES 
Act, championed by Congress Members Frost and Lee, who is a 
Member here of this Committee, would increase military voter 
access, unlike the SAVE Act. Why are we discussing this today 
instead of that?
    We would happily waive this Committee's notice requirements 
to call the VOTES Act up right now to send it, once again, to 
the full House, so to defend rather than undermine legitimate 
American elections. Instead of wasting time, can we support 
military and overseas voters? I would hope we would.

    Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
    Without objection, all other Members' opening statements 
will be made part of the record if they are submitted to the 
Committee clerk by 5 p.m. today.
    Today, we have one witness panel. First, we have Ms. Ashlee 
Titus, who is a partner at Bell, McAndrews & Hiltachk. Next, we 
have Mr. Austin Gilbert, who is co-owner of Right Choice 
Strategies. After that, we have Hon. Donald Palmer, chairman of 
the Election Assistance Commission. Finally, we have Rebecca 
Nowatchik from the Secure Families Initiative.
    We appreciate all of you traveling to be with us here today 
and look forward to your testimony. Let me remind the witnesses 
we have read your statements and they will appear in full in 
the record.
    I will now recognize Ms. Titus for 5 minutes.

    STATEMENTS OF ASHLEE TITUS, PARTNER, BELL, MCANDREWS & 
     HILTACHK, LLP; HON. DONALD PALMER, CHAIRMAN, ELECTION 
 ASSISTANCE COMMISSION; AUSTIN GILBERT, CO-OWNER, RIGHT CHOICE 
 STRATEGIES, LLC; AND REBECCA NOWATCHIK, DIRECTOR OF EXTERNAL 
         PARTNERSHIPS, SECURE FAMILIES INITIATIVE, INC.

                   STATEMENT OF ASHLEE TITUS

    Ms. Titus. Thank you, Chairman and Members of the 
Committee. I am an attorney in private practice in Sacramento. 
My first election as an attorney for a campaign was March 2004, 
and it took 2 weeks after that election for the nominee to be 
known.
    For well over 20 years, California's canvass has been slow. 
Now there are more close contests that take 3 to 4 weeks after 
the election to determine the winner.
    California's election laws impose numerous procedures that 
extend ballot processing and counting far beyond election 
night. Election administrators must contend with constantly 
changing rules and manage a larger volume of complicated mail-
in provisional ballots in a 1-month period following each 
election.
    The original culprit behind California's lengthy canvass is 
no-excuse access to mail ballots. In 1978, California became 
the first State to allow voters to apply to vote by mail on an 
election-by-election basis without a reason.
    Since the 2020 general election, every active voter 
receives a ballot in the mail without applying. In the most 
recent general election, nearly 81 percent of California's 22 
and a half million registered voters cast a mail ballot.
    Hand-delivered and drop-box ballots must be received by the 
close of polls on Election Day, but mail ballots are valid if 
they are received by an election official by the seventh day 
after the election.
    About half of mail ballots cast are dropped off by voters 
on Election Day and are not processed until days or weeks after 
election night.
    When a mail ballot is received by an election office, the 
laborious signature comparison process begins. Some counties in 
California use technology to conduct the first signature 
comparison, while others solely rely on election workers.
    Before a signature on an envelope is deemed not to compare 
to the voter's signature on file, three levels of review must 
find, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the signature on the mail 
ballot envelope possesses multiple significant and obvious 
differing characteristics when compared to all signatures in 
the voter's registration record.
    When a signature is challenged, the voter has an 
opportunity to provide a substitute signature. If a voter 
returns their mail ballot envelope without a signature, that 
voter also has an opportunity to provide a signature.
    In both cases, this process is known as signature curing. 
Depending on the county, a voter may submit a substitute 
signature as late as 28 days after Election Day. Many signature 
cures are returned as a result of the harvesting efforts of 
campaigns in close contests.
    Usually, county elections officials are permitted to 
certify their election results as soon as they have completed 
all of the required tasks, but a law temporarily in effect for 
the 2024 general election prohibited counties from certifying 
earlier than the 28th day after the election.
    The response of many county elections officials was to 
suspend canvass activities outside of normal working hours to 
avoid paying overtime to their canvass workers, thus further 
delaying the reporting results for the November 2024 general 
election.
    In addition to the nearly 60-day mail voting process that 
we have in California, California's same-day voter registration 
significantly contributes to the delay in finalizing election 
results. This is known as conditional voter registration.
    California permits individuals who are not registered to 
vote by the 15th day before an election to complete a 
registration affidavit and cast a ballot. Conditional 
registrations are a type of provisional ballot, which take the 
most time and the most labor to process.
    It is the cumulative effect of all of these procedures and 
deadlines that caused the delay in finalizing California's 
election results. Of the weeks it takes to know the outcome of 
close contests, California's Secretary of State, Dr. Shirley 
Weber, said Californians should be patient.
    Not all of California's policymakers agree that we should 
just accept this. There are several proposals currently pending 
in the California Legislature to address the lengthy canvass.
    One bill would require all counties to offer in-person 
voting on the Saturday prior to Election Day. Given that 78 
percent of voters already have this option, and still over 80 
percent of California's voters returned a mail ballot in the 
most recent election using an envelope, this is not likely to 
ease the post-election crunch.
    Several Members of the California Legislature have 
introduced bills this session to simply mandate speeding things 
up. These proposals would impose an arbitrary deadline by which 
certain ballots must be counted, or that the canvass must be 
completed without addressing the root causes of the current 
lengthy process, and without equipping elections officials with 
the means to process ballot envelopes faster.
    The solutions must focus on mail ballot and same-day voter 
registration procedures and deadlines. Otherwise, California 
will continue to be last in the Nation to finalize its election 
results.
    That concludes my comments.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Titus follows:]

               PREPARED STATEMENT OF ASHLEE TITUS
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Chairman Steil. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Gilbert, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

                  STATEMENT OF AUSTIN GILBERT

    Mr. Gilbert. Good morning. Thank you, Chair and Committee 
Members.
    My name is Austin Gilbert. I am a campaign field operative 
and consultant, and I have run numerous campaigns over the last 
decade in the Central Valley and High Sierras in California.
    I have dealt with elections offices and officials during 
counting procedures, ballot-curing operations, and recounts 
across 13 different counties, and I have been a resident of 
Fresno County my entire life.
    California elections can be described in one word: slow. 
Over the last decade, California has prioritized voter access 
over efficiency, effectiveness, and safety, inundating 
elections officials with time-consuming verification and 
sorting processes, security flaws, and a reliance on mail for 
voting.
    With the passage of the Voter's Choice Act in 2016, 
California changed from traditional in-person voting to the new 
method of vote centers, drop boxes, and mail-in voting. This 
process was designed to be slow from the beginning. To start, 
State law mandates that any election official accept and count 
ballots postmarked on or before Election Day and received 
within 7 days of the election. This immediately slows results 
from being disclosed to the public, as elections offices do not 
even receive an accurate count of the total votes cast until 
most of the Nation has finished counting.
    The centralization of this election process from precincts 
to vote centers and the elections office has also complicated 
the ballot sorting process. Specifically, within Fresno County, 
we typically deal with upwards of 3 to 500 different ballot 
types, that being any ballot with different contests included 
on it.
    While in years past, you would vote at a precinct of your 
neighbors and there were very limited numbers of unique ballot 
types; now, vote centers are required to provide every single 
unique ballot, as any voter can vote at any vote center.
    You can imagine, it is a lot easier to sort two to three 
different ballot types in one location than between 500 in one 
centralized vote center.
    California also has an extremely arduous signature 
verification process, one that relies heavily on human 
interaction and the interpretation of handwriting. While most 
States verify identity before voters receive a ballot, 
California sends ballots out to every voter and verifies the 
signature after the fact.
    This process of signature verification usually works in 
three steps: Ballots are received in the elections office and 
scanned for a signature. The signature is compared to the 
voter's signature on file, and the ballot is either accepted 
and opened or denied.
    At this point of denial, a ballot cure form will then be 
sent to the voter so they have a chance to correct their 
missing or nonmatching signature. While in theory, this sounds 
simple, in practice it becomes the most complicated process in 
administering an election.
    In the days following an election, you can often see 
thousands of ballots in one room at different stages of the 
verification process. This includes ballots that have yet to be 
verified; ballots that are waiting on cure forms; ballots that 
have been accepted and are being separated from the envelope; 
provisional ballots awaiting verification; and conditional 
voter registration forms, all of this before elections 
officials can even flatten, sort, and count to provide results 
to the public.
    There are also multiple deliveries of ballot types to the 
elections office on election night. This comes from ballot 
boxes across the county, vote centers, and United States Postal 
Service. All of these added steps and processes revolve around 
the signature verification process, which is largely done by 
temporary workers and election employees inside of a single 
county warehouse.
    It is important to compare this to the original process, 
where voters would sign next to their name in a precinct, it 
would be verified and that voter crossed off the list from 
their specific precinct and then a ballot would be issued.
    Now, rather than just sorting ballots, the elections office 
is single-handedly tasked with the entirety of verification, 
sorting, and counting.
    California also does not maintain clean voter rolls. In 
many counties across the State, voters are tasked with updating 
their own elections office on changes to their registration, 
including if a relative dies or no longer lives in the State.
    In many instances, households would receive ballots for 
members of their family that were recently deceased or no 
longer live there. While that is a massive security concern, it 
also adds to the extremely high cost of administering 
elections.
    In virtually every elections office, you can ask to see 
their undeliverable ballots, which usually surpass the 
thousands. These ballots are ones that USPS could not verify an 
address for, or were returned to the elections office for any 
number of reasons. With the price of paper, printing, and 
postage, you can imagine this amounts to a massive cost.
    Complicated verification processes, ballots still being 
received up to a week after election night, the ability of 
voters to cure ballots 28 days after an election, and messy 
voter rolls have led to one of the slowest and most costly 
election processes in the Nation.
    Prioritization of voter access has led to a lack of speed, 
security, and a diminishing trust in California elections over 
the last decade.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Gilbert follows:]

              PREPARED STATEMENT OF AUSTIN GILBERT
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    Chairman Steil. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Donald Palmer, Chairman of the Election Assistance 
Commission, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

                STATEMENT OF HON. DONALD PALMER

    Mr. Palmer. Thank you, Chairman Steil, Ranking Member 
Morelle, and Members of the Committee. I appreciate the 
opportunity to appear before you to address post-election 
procedures.
    At the EAC, we offer year-round help to election officials 
to improve the administration of elections. This ensures that 
eligible Americans can participate in a secure electoral 
process and have confidence in the final results.
    Prior to the 2024 election, I visited four of California's 
largest election offices to discuss their challenges, meet 
their senior staff, and thank them for their public service.
    It should be noted that American elections are highly 
decentralized, with different States prioritizing different 
policies concerning ballot return, counting, and finalizing 
results. Today, I hope to provide insight into why it takes 
longer to count ballots in California than in many other 
States.
    In prior years, the California Legislature has made several 
policy choices that have contributed to the extended curing and 
ballot-counting timeline. I also note that California 
legislators have recently proposed several measures that would 
streamline the post-election process.
    As an all-ballot-mail State, California gives voters 28 
days after Election Day to cure signature discrepancies on mail 
ballots. In contrast, for example, Arizona gives voters 5 
business days. Colorado voters have 8 days to cure mail-in 
ballots.
    In addition to the extended cure period, under California 
election law, ballots may be received up to 7 days after the 
election. In contrast, 33 States require that mail ballots be 
received by Election Day.
    When provided the opportunity to drop a mail ballot off on 
Election Day, voters inevitably do so, thus pushing the 
necessary canvassing and verification of mail ballots deeper 
into the precertification period.
    With the omission or mismatch of signatures of mail-in 
ballots, the curing period also extends the time of the final 
tabulation results.
    Individual State laws play a fundamental role in our 
elections. Some of the factors involved in the different pace 
in tabulating final certified results include the extent and 
timing of absentee or mail ballots and early voting, 
preprocessing opportunities; tabulation, reporting 
requirements; resources and personnel available to election 
officials; deadlines to return absentee or mail-in ballots to 
voters; and curing or provisional ballot rules.
    Before joining the EAC, I have served as the director of 
elections in Florida from 2008 to 2011. In Florida, county 
supervisors of election must finalize their results within 13 
days following the election. During this time, election 
officials offer voters a curing process, which includes 
signature resolution and the opportunity to correct incomplete 
ballot certificates.
    The timeline in Florida offers a streamlined and efficient 
vote tabulation process that balances the need for accuracy and 
promptness. However, it took the State of Florida several years 
in election cycles of trial and error to find the correct 
procedures to maintain efficiency, report promptly, and 
increase voter confidence.
    As charged by the Help America Vote Act of 2002, the EAC 
fulfills its role as a national clearinghouse for information 
on election administration in many days. The EAC regularly 
provides detailed best practices, templates and webinars 
related to mail ballots, the canvassing process, post-election 
activities, and ballot curing.
    The EAC has highlighted jurisdictions using new technology 
to allow voters to promptly cure ballots. These resources 
promote consistency and legal compliance, ensuring that every 
lawful vote is counted, and the electoral process is secure, 
reliable, and timely.
    In addition, the 2024 Election Administration Voting 
Survey, or EAVS, will be delivered to Congress by June 30th. It 
contains questions on State-ballot curing. This enhanced data 
collection will better enable the EAC to show ballot-curing 
trends across the United States and provide baselines to inform 
future State laws and administrative improvements.
    I would also like to touch on the role of the United States 
Postal Service and ballot delivery and its failure to deliver 
timely ballots. The EAC will continue to work with the USPS and 
the States to build that relationship and to improve mail 
balloting across the country.
    Through adequate funding of the EAC, the Commission will 
continue to provide crucial support and policy recommendations 
to States and localities across the country.
    Thank you for your continued investment in the EAC and your 
unwavering commitment to election administrators, poll workers, 
and our Nation's public servants. We look forward to 
collaborating closely with you on these and other essential 
matters.
    I would be pleased to address any questions you may have. 
Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Palmer follows:]

            PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. DONALD PALMER
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    Chairman Steil. Thank you very much, Chairman Palmer.
    Ms. Nowatchik, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

                 STATEMENT OF REBECCA NOWATCHIK

    Ms. Nowatchik. Good morning. Thank you for the invitation 
to speak today, specifically on this topic of election 
administration in California.
    My name is Rebecca Nowatchik. I am the Director of External 
Partnerships at Secure Families Initiative. We are a 
nonpartisan organization that strengthens the voices of diverse 
military families, as an active and influential constituency, 
on issues that impact our lives.
    We also lead the Military Vote Coalition, a nonpartisan 
coalition of over 20 military family and veteran support 
organizations united by our mission to protect the military 
community's access to the ballot box.
    SFI's military voter education programs have also been 
recognized nationally and highlighted as a key information 
source for Active-Duty families by the Department of Defense.
    I am here today representing my community and SFI, but not 
to advocate for any partisan outcome but to ensure that the 
community we represent is at the table where our access to the 
ballot box is being discussed. Personally, my firsthand 
knowledge, both as a military spouse and also as the daughter 
of a combat veteran, has led me to this work.
    Military families represent America. Military families come 
from rural areas, small and large towns and cities. They 
include members from every ethnic group, religion, educational 
background and sexual orientation. Nearly 50 percent of 
servicemembers are Black, indigenous, or a person of color. 
Over 50 percent are over--I am sorry. Over 50 percent are under 
30 years old, and 92 percent of military spouses are women.
    The military community is a network of families stationed 
all over the world. Most Active Duty families move every 2 to 3 
years. These moves can disrupt support networks, safety, 
children's education and social lives, and limit career paths. 
These moves also impact our ability to vote.
    Routine mail delivery delays is a common challenge entirely 
out of our hands when stationed far away from home. For 
example, families stationed all the way in Japan have shared 
experiences of mail taking 6 to 8 weeks. There are other 
challenges that I have highlighted in my written testimony. It 
should be no surprise that military voters are 27 percent less 
likely to have voted than their civilian counterparts.
    When a military voter tries to vote but is unsuccessful, 
the most common reason is because their ballot arrives past the 
deadline. The second most common reason comes when a military 
voter's ballot gets rejected for something like a missing 
signature or a date, and the voter is not notified and provided 
the opportunity to cure the ballot by the deadline.
    That is why we have long advocated for policies that would 
tackle these top issues facing our community. Best practices 
include, No. 1, enable ballots that are postmarked by Election 
Day to arrive at least 7 days after Election Day to still be 
counted; and two, ensure timely ballot rejection notification 
and robust ballot-curing processes and opportunities for our 
voters.
    Both these policies are true for California, home to the 
largest number of Active-Duty members in the United States and 
also one of the largest uniformed and overseas citizen, or 
UOCOVA, voting populations.
    These policies may lead to longer wait times, true, for 
election results; but more importantly, they go a long way to 
protect military voters, who should have the same opportunity 
as our civilian counterparts to be maximally deliberative about 
our choices at the ballot box.
    There are two proposed Federal policy changes currently in 
motion: One, the SAVE Act, which this Chamber advanced earlier 
this month; and the March 25th executive order regarding voter 
registration requirements. Both take American elections in the 
opposite direction where military voters need them to go.
    For instance, one of the barriers the SAVE Act may impose 
would require voters to bring passports or birth certificates 
in person to their election office when they register. This 
means military families would no longer be able to register 
from that far-away duty station. If a person has changed their 
last name since birth, for example, if you are like me and 
changed my last name when I married my husband, using a birth 
certificate might not be sufficient documentation on itself.
    If implemented, the March 25th executive order would also 
undermine the ability for military families to access the 
ballot box. The order would mean that the military families 
stationed halfway across the world from home who crossed every 
T, who dotted every I when casting their ballot, their military 
ID would no longer suffice, and mail delays outside of their 
control could mean their ballot could no longer count.
    In closing, I would like to remind the Committee that 
voting carries a profound--profound--gravity for us. The right 
to vote is a cornerstone of the democracy that we, as military 
families, have committed to protect.
    I urge this Committee as well as every other body in 
Congress, do not abandon us. Do not abandon military families. 
Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Nowatchik follows:]

            PREPARED STATEMENT OF REBECCA NOWATCHIK
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    Chairman Steil. Thank you very much.
    I will now recognize myself for 5 minutes for the purpose 
of asking questions.
    Out of the gate, without objection, I would like to insert 
the written testimony of Cole Patterson, the data director for 
the California Republican Party.
    Without objection.
    [The Cole Patterson letter follows:]
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    

    Chairman Steil. Ms. Titus, I want to start with you, in 
particular, kind of dialoguing the 7 days that ballots can be 
received by California after Election Day. You would think they 
would have to be postmarked, right? I mean, the idea is that it 
is in the USPS system.
    What is the check on that in California? Do they review for 
postmark? What happens if it is not postmarked? Can you provide 
some color to that?
    Ms. Titus. They do, in fact, review for postmarks, and they 
do reject mail ballots that either do not have a postmark or do 
not have a date. California does not require that the voter 
date their ballot when they sign it, but there is a space to do 
so. If they are dated on or before Election Day but lack a 
postmark then those would be counted.
    Chairman Steil. Let us just dialog this the whole way 
through, because when I was at L.A. Central Count I found this 
really interesting, because I watched ballots arrive by mail 
into the system 3 days after. As I noted, about 900,000 total 
ballots were somewhere in the process of being counted, of 
being validated, observed the signature verification. We will 
come to that second.
    Is your testimony that if USPS does not date the envelope, 
and an individual then opens the ballot, the voter is not 
required to date the ballot in California, under California 
law, but if they do date the ballot, and they date it by 
Election Day, it would still count. Is that accurate?
    Ms. Titus. Yes.
    Chairman Steil. The real check is not that it was in. It is 
a trust system that the individual who dated the ballot dated 
it on the correct day, right?
    Ms. Titus. Correct.
    Chairman Steil. If somebody dated it by Election Day, USPS 
did not stamp that with a postal date stamp, it would count?
    Ms. Titus. Yes.
    Chairman Steil. USPS does not date 100 percent of their 
mail.
    Ms. Titus. Correct.
    Chairman Steil. It sounds like a problem. The way to fix 
this, of course, would just be to require that it is collected 
and in by Election Day. I went to high school. I think a lot of 
us did. When a paper was due, when did we write the paper? When 
it was due. If you just say it has to be in by Election Day, it 
shifts that.
    Chairman Palmer, you noted 33 States require that ballots 
be in by Election Day. I am assuming that means 17 plus maybe 
the District of Columbia allow them to come in after Election 
Day. Is that accurate?
    Mr. Palmer. Yes, Mr. Chair.
    Chairman Steil. Is there a significant correlation with 
voter participation if it needs to be in by Election Day or 
after Election Day?
    Mr. Palmer. I do not think there is a direct correlation.
    Chairman Steil. People are going to do it by the deadline, 
right? If you say, you got to have it postmarked, you got to 
have it in by Election Day, you get a ton of people that drop 
in the box by Election Day.
    If you say it has got to be received by Election Day, a lot 
of people drop it in sufficiently in advance, or drop it in in 
person so that at least the physical ballots are all in by a 
specific deadline, right?
    Mr. Palmer. I agree, sir.
    Chairman Steil. I will come back to you, Ms. Titus.
    California runs a system also where every registered voter 
receives a ballot. Regardless of whether or not they request 
it, it is automatically sent. Is that accurate?
    Ms. Titus. Yes.
    Chairman Steil. When that goes out, obviously, not 100 
percent of the people that receive a ballot participate in the 
election, but a large percentage, I think it was about 70 or so 
percent in the State of California. For the purpose of calling 
an election, not only do you need to know the numerator, how 
many ballots come in--and they can come in up to 7 days after 
the election--but you also need to know the denominator, which 
is how many total people are voting when you are--I apologize, 
the denominator in the context of what percent you would need 
to be able to win an election.
    For 7 days, everybody in California is reasonably blind as 
to the total number of ballots cast in an election. Is that 
accurate?
    Ms. Titus. Yes.
    Chairman Steil. That makes it really hard to call a race, 
to know who won an election, right?
    Ms. Titus. Yes.
    Chairman Steil. That challenge I think is a real and 
substantive challenge.
    I want to end with the signature comparison. When I walked 
through L.A. Central Count, it was burned into my mind, 
watching this woman do the signature verification.
    What standard, or what training are the workers given who 
are engaged in the signature verification in California?
    Ms. Titus. There is no standardized training.
    Chairman Steil. There is no training?
    Ms. Titus. There is no standardized training.
    Chairman Steil. OK.
    Ms. Titus. Some counties have more rigorous training. Some 
counties have very little.
    What I have also seen is the comparison process is often 
occurring on a computer screen, and they may be comparing four 
different voter ballots at the same time. They will have the 
scans of the outside of envelopes of four----
    Chairman Steil. The standard with which--so the training 
varies.
    Ms. Titus. The training varies.
    Chairman Steil. The woman that I met said she had almost no 
training.
    Ms. Titus. There are about 17 criteria that are supposed to 
apply when----
    Chairman Steil. The standard that they have to meet is 
beyond a reasonable doubt?
    Ms. Titus. Correct.
    Chairman Steil. It is a pretty high standard.
    Ms. Titus. Yes.
    Chairman Steil. Especially in a situation where these live 
ballots are mailed to every registered voter. I think we have 
identified some of the challenges we see in California. I 
appreciate our witnesses here.
    Cognizant of the time, I will now recognize the Ranking 
Member for 5 minutes for questions.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    I would just like to ask the witnesses, can you raise your 
hand if you have information or knowledge that demonstrates 
that California election officials wrongly certified a winner 
in this year's California congressional elections?
    OK. The record should reflect that none of the witnesses 
raised their hand.
    I do want to ask Ms. Nowatchik--I am sorry if I am probably 
killing your last name. I apologize. If it were easy like 
Morelle, I would get it.
    Your testimony discusses how vitally important it is to our 
democracy, the right to vote, particularly for military and 
overseas voters.
    To your knowledge, the voter access and election 
administration policies in place in States like California and 
I will say in my State of New York, which also allows ballots 
postmarked to be counted up to a week after Election Day, do 
these policies enhance the ability of military and overseas 
voters to cast a free, fair, and secure ballot?
    Ms. Nowatchik. Yes. Our position is we need to take in 
account the experiences that our families are experiencing. For 
those stationed overseas, or even in the continental United 
States, when trying to access the polls, we will experience 
mail delays. Any policy that takes that into account, like the 
State of California being able to count ballots 7 days after 
the election, makes it easier for our community to participate, 
absolutely.
    Mr. Morelle. You mentioned in your testimony--and I do not 
know this. I do not have this experience. I think you indicated 
a number of days typically that mail delays can occur. Let me 
just--I thought there was a number in here.
    Can you just tell me a little bit? You have had this 
experience of the amount of time that it takes just for U.S. 
mail to get back and forth from where you happen to be. 
Obviously, it depends on where you are. If you are in the 
Pacific, can you talk a little bit about those delays which you 
experienced?
    Ms. Nowatchik. Sure. Priority mail for international for 
USPS is about 6 to 10 days. Others average about 7 to 14 days. 
From our position, you know, 2 weeks is very friendly to the 
military voter, but we recommend 7 days is the gold standard.
    Mr. Morelle. The process is, if you are on a base, can you 
just talk about that? I actually do not know how--or if--let me 
say this: This if you are on an aircraft carrier in the middle 
of the Pacific, how do you get--mail gets delivered?
    Ms. Nowatchik. Well, I personally have never been on an 
aircraft carrier in the middle of the Pacific.
    Mr. Morelle. Well, someone in your organization probably 
has.
    Ms. Nowatchik. Yes, we do have Members with that 
experience. I can share when it does not go well. We have a 
member who was stationed, because we do have people who are 
stationed, families who are stationed on installations that are 
not U.S. military installations.
    In military installations connected to the United States, 
we have access to our mail system. For example, we have one 
member who was stationed on a Canadian military installation; 
so, therefore, she did not have access to U.S. mail and 
actually ended up having to pay a private courier to then 
courier her ballot back to make the deadline. Extremely 
expensive. We know the majority in our community do not have 
those financial resources to do that.
    I share the story for two reasons: One, to, you know, hit 
home really what the mail delay situation and those barriers 
can be for us, but also really to express how many people in 
our community desperately want to participate in this process 
and are really looking for policymakers to make it as 
accessible as possible for us to do so.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you for that answer.
    I guess you are right. You are a spouse of, so that makes 
sense. It is Tuesday. I apologize. I am not really fully 
functioning yet.
    The other thing that you mentioned, which I had not really 
given thought to, but I guess makes a great deal of sense, that 
you may be on a military base but you may be in a host country 
and you have to make that connection somehow. I appreciate your 
comments about that.
    I would say this--and I appreciate all the witnesses and 
your perspective. Just, from my perspective, getting this right 
is more important than getting it fast. Like I said in my 
opening statement, I am certainly willing to look at--and 
obviously with the Election Assistance Commission, we could all 
look at ways to improve this and make this faster for everyone 
to some degree.
    We also want to respect the notion that California and 
other States want to get it right. They want to afford every 
single voter in their State the opportunity to vote. Look, this 
should not be a ``gotcha.'' I mean, the right to vote should be 
inalienable. It is, you know, according to our Founders, 
inalienable rights that we have.
    The fact that California takes time to get it right--and I 
suspect from the fact that there were no contested elections 
that they actually did get it right. I do not want to value 
speed over doing this properly and getting it right.
    I thank the witnesses for being here.
    Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
    The Representative from Oklahoma, Mrs. Bice, is recognized 
for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. Bice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for the 
witnesses for being here today.
    First, let me say that I represent the great State of 
Oklahoma. Prior to being elected to Congress, I was in the 
State Senate, where I oversaw the State Election Commission. 
Shout-out to Paul Ziriax, Secretary of the Election Board 
there.
    Oklahoma, I think, is doing elections right. We have voter 
ID laws in place, and have had them, based on a State question 
that was put forward to the voters a couple of decades ago. 
That ensures a couple of things: One, that the election is 
verified and there is integrity in that process and also speed.
    My colleague, the Ranking Member, just talked about speed. 
I have now participated in several elections in the State 
legislature and now as a Member of Congress, and I know on 
election night whether or not I am going to serve in that 
capacity.
    I think it is unbelievable to hear that it takes a month 
for the State of California to be able to certify these 
elections. That, in itself, provides uncertainty in the 
process. I think that is what is really problematic here.
    I want to mention earlier the comments that the Ranking 
Member made in regards to the VOTES Act. No matter a 
servicemember's status and no matter if you are in the service 
or not, each State has procedures for all eligible overseas 
Americans to vote, and those options always require or include 
mail.
    Let me be clear. If there are examples of overseas voters 
being denied by a State, we want to hear about that, because we 
certainly want to make sure that we are addressing that issue. 
It is important to every Member on this Committee.
    Let me start, if I may, Ms. Titus, almost 2 million more 
ballots were cast in California's Presidential election in 2020 
than in 2024. Do you believe the larger turnout in California 
was due to ballot harvesting efforts?
    Ms. Titus. I am not sure that the turnout in 2020 being 
higher than 2024 was the cause of ballot harvesting. I think 
every cycle, the political parties tend to be the drivers of 
ballot harvesting. They tend to be the ones that are training 
the campaigns how to do it, because the campaigns sort of 
change every 2 years.
    The parties are kind of the keepers of the procedures for 
how to execute ballot harvesting. I tend to think that they get 
better at it year after year. I am not sure that turnout going 
down over a 4-year period is caused by ballot harvesting.
    Mrs. Bice. I think it is worth noting, though, that in 2020 
there were 2.39 million more mail-in votes than in 2024. That 
is a huge number.
    I want to pivot for a second, too, to the curing 
conversation. Being from Oklahoma, I did not know what that 
was. I had no idea what curing actually meant. Again, I think 
that just brings some uncertainty to the process.
    I want to pivot slightly. You mentioned the signature 
verification process. Raise of hands here, how many of you use 
the exact same signature every time or have the exact same 
signature today that you did a decade ago? Raise your hand. You 
are the only one, my friend.
    My point being I do not understand why we are using 
signature verification for this process. I think it provides 
the ability for inaccuracies across the board. I understand 
that you are taking information from all these different public 
records to be able to verify those signatures, but I think that 
in itself is problematic. I do not understand why we would not 
do a voter ID type of process.
    The other thing that has been mentioned is that we are 
allowing for this lengthy process of being able to deliver 
ballots after Election Day. Again, I think that breeds 
uncertainty. We want people to have confidence in our 
elections. That means timely information. That means a quick 
turnaround on counting those ballots.
    For me, I also think that California should consider 
actually moving some of these dates up. Why are we not allowing 
more in-person voting, early in-person voting? It was mentioned 
there was 1 day, Saturday, that you can in-person vote. Why not 
tell people, your ballot needs to be in by Election Day and, by 
the way, we are going to have additional in-person voting days 
to be able to allow for that?
    Mr. Gilbert, you mentioned California's maintenance or, 
rather, mis-maintenance of voting rolls and recommended actions 
to improve them. How many signatures do we think that 
California has on file for verification, and how old are they?
    Mr. Gilbert. Typically, every voter has about four to five 
signatures on file. Every time you change something at the DMV 
or you submit another voter registration when you move, those 
would be updated and added permanently to your voter file.
    Mrs. Bice. I think this sort of proves my point, that your 
signature may change over time, and certainly, that 
verification process I think becomes much more complicated. As 
a State that does not do signature verification and believes 
that we do elections right, I would like to see that changed.
    With that, Mr. Chair, I yield.
    Chairman Steil. The gentlewoman yields back.
    Representative Sewell is recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Sewell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I want to welcome all of our witnesses and thank you for 
your testimony today.
    I am a daughter of Selma, Alabama. I grew up there and I 
have the honor and privilege of representing them in Congress. 
There is nothing more important and sacred than the right to 
vote, in my opinion. Protecting that right I think is something 
that is clearly within our purview here on this Committee.
    I am a little bit puzzled by our hearing today. I mean, the 
first premise that is being made is that somehow giving 
everyone a ballot who is eligible is somehow flawed. You know, 
I think that we, as elected officials, should be in the 
business of making it easier for people to vote, not harder for 
people to vote.
    I represent Alabama, and Alabama has same-day voting only. 
We do not have early voting. Our absentee ballot process has 
been restricted. You cannot even help your elderly grandmother 
without thinking--without--helping her to vote, who has, you 
know, an elderly grandmother who has a stroke, a stroke victim. 
You cannot help them prepare their ballot because for fear of a 
felony being committed. That is the most recent charge that 
Alabama has.
    You know, California is one of the largest States in the 
Union, and they have a lot of folks. They provide eligible 
voters their vote by mail.
    I do not think that there is something inherently wrong 
with sending ballots out to every eligible voter. In fact, I 
would venture to guess that California does have a better 
return rate and participation rate than States like Alabama 
that make it harder for folks to vote.
    The second reason why we are here today is because somehow 
getting the results that same night is so critically important. 
It is more important than making sure that our overseas 
military personnel, who are eligible voters, get their ballots 
back in a timely fashion.
    I am not sure what timely is, but I can tell you same-day 
results does not make it any less prone to fraud or any more 
prone to fraud. Rather, it allows eligible voters time, 
especially those that are overseas, an opportunity to cast 
their ballot.
    I would venture to guess, Mr. Chairman, that it is more 
important that we protect that sacred right to vote than to get 
some result in that same night.
    For me, I think that I have been encouraging folks in the 
State of Alabama to do early voting and to make it easier for 
folks to vote, not harder for folks to vote. I am not really 
sure why my colleagues do not think that that is right, 
especially when the Brennan Center says that there is a .05 
percent of fraud that occurs during elections, not a rampant 
fraud from everyone.
    I would like to ask you, Mr. Palmer, as one of the 
directors, one of the commissioners for the Federal Election 
Commission, are there best practices that are recommended when 
it comes to military personnel voting or absentee balloting? Is 
there sort of one way to do that?
    I also would like--I guess the first question that I have 
for you is, is it a right for American citizens to have the 
right to vote when they turn 18, is not that a right that every 
American citizen has, and if so, why is it that so many States 
like States like Alabama make it harder for folks to vote 
rather than easier for folks to vote?
    Mr. Palmer. Thank you. The EAC's clearinghouse function 
sort of takes best practices from across the country, and we 
share them with each other so States can see how things are 
working across the country.
    Our EAVS survey is something that our election officials 
across the country can also view and compare it to other States 
and similar counties.
    I agree with you that, you know, coming of age at 18 and 
being able to register to vote and vote, you know, talking 
about the opportunities may include in person, you know, in-
person, absentee. It may include in-person early voting, 
overseas voting.
    Ms. Sewell. I am running out of time. There is no sort of 
standardized practice that is recommended by the Commission?
    Mr. Palmer. No. I think we take a best practices look, and 
also the use of technology to make our elections more 
efficient.
    Ms. Sewell. Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to just go on 
record as saying that the right to vote is a sacred right. It 
is not a privilege for the few.
    Somehow my colleagues on the other side of the aisle think 
that somehow it is a privilege. It is a birthright of every 
American citizen to be able to vote, and we should be in the 
business of making it easier to vote, not harder to vote.
    I would like to put into the record unanimous consent to 
enter into the record two items: A letter we sent to you, Mr. 
Chairman, requesting that the majority be allowed to have a 
testify by remote access; and second, a January 2025 Orange 
County grand jury report of the November 2024 election which 
made three findings that there was no evidence of fraud in 
California.
    Chairman Steil. Without objection.
    [The letter and grand jury report referred to follows:]
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    Ms. Sewell. Thank you. I yield back the balance of my time.
    Chairman Steil. The Representative yields back.
    The Representative from Illinois, Mrs. Miller, is 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. Miller. Thank you, Chairman.
    Chairman Palmer, you previously served as a Florida 
director of elections and the Commonwealth of Virginia's chief 
election official.
    What is the starkest contrast between how those States 
collect their ballots and California?
    Mr. Palmer. Well, I think the starkest difference or the 
contrast is sort of the results of early voting and Election 
Day, plus preprocessed absentees are all those are ready to go 
on election night.
    The mail ballot model and ballot-box issue allows those 
ballots to be returned either by the mail on Election Day, 
which will then take 7 to 10 days into the certification 
period, or a ballot box, which then those ballots still need to 
be processed.
    You already have the results when you are voting in person 
or early voting or preprocess absentee with some deadline. 
Those ballots are ready to go and those results will be ready 
to go on election night.
    If you are waiting to receive mail ballots, you then have 
to go through the process of signature comparison, processing 
those ballots, a cure period. That is why it takes so long and 
the mail ballot model takes longer.
    Large populations and large counties, you are going to have 
a large number of issues in getting those ballots tabulated and 
the results out. It just pushes--it pushes the results later 
into the period. I hope that helps.
    Mrs. Miller. Yes. What would you say then are procedures or 
model legislation California should adopt from States that you 
previously served?
    Mr. Palmer. I believe the preprocessing of absentee or mail 
ballots is important, early voting that allows the tabulation 
of the ballot onsite, and then Election Day, helping on 
Election Day.
    You give options to voters. I also think that there should 
be a deadline for absentee or mail ballots prior to Election 
Day, and then they should be returned by Election Day. That 
allows voters to know that if they do not have the option to 
return the ballot by mail or absentee that they can still vote 
in person. That allows the system to work.
    We are relying too much on the USPS. The USPS is having 
major issues. They continue to extend their service dates, and 
that has a direct impact on elections and voters. You will find 
in a lot of mail ballot States that voters do no longer trust 
the United States Postal Service to get their ballots in on 
time. They are going to return it in person, or a ballot box.
    Again, when you return a ballot by ballot box, it still has 
got to go through that entire process of processing as if it 
was a mail ballot. I think that those are some of my 
recommendations for a State trying to make their process more 
efficient on the front end.
    Mrs. Miller. Thank you.
    Mr. Gilbert, can you please expand on how the Voter's 
Choice Act has complicated ballot counting for election workers 
by allowing numerous different ballots to be submitted in one 
voting location?
    Mr. Gilbert. When previously you would just go into your 
precinct and vote, now a vote center has to supply any given 
ballot to any voter. For instance, if you live in my area, if 
you live in Coalinga and you are in Fresno to work and you are 
at the Fresno vote center, they have to provide your ballot for 
the city of Coalinga, when typically you would have to be 
nearer to your home.
    Now that vote center is in charge of sorting that ballot, 
which is nothing like the Fresno city ballots around it, and 
also they have to be able to provide conditional voter 
registrations.
    If you have not registered to vote and you would like to 
vote, you also can register that same day and vote, and those 
are extremely time-consuming.
    Mrs. Miller. Are there other election processes that have 
become more burdensome due to the Voter's Choice Act?
    Mr. Gilbert. I would say that the No. 1 thing we have seen 
ever since they started mailing ballots to everyone is 
California still does mail to P.O. boxes as well, not just 
physical addresses.
    If you go into any United States Postal Service toward the 
P.O. boxes about 30 days before the election, you can find 
about a couple hundred ballots in the trash can. I think that 
is a security concern and one of the things we have seen since 
the change in procedure.
    Mrs. Miller. Thank you. I yield back, Chairman.
    Chairman Steil. The gentlewoman yields back.
    The gentlewoman from California, Representative Torres, is 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. Torres. Thank you. Let me just start by saying that, 
as the only Californian on this Committee, I am outraged. I am 
simply outraged at the continued attacks from this Committee 
against my home State, Chairman. How dare this Committee attack 
the duly elected members of the State legislature who were 
elected by Californians to represent them.
    The fact is, California is doing just fine without your 
input. Let us look at the facts. California is the fourth 
largest economy in the world. We sent $692 billion to the 
Federal Government, and we get $83 billion less in return. 
Meanwhile, Florida gets $41 billion more, Ohio gets $49 billion 
more, Texas gets $71 billion more. Do us a favor, and when your 
State rises to the level of California, then let us talk about 
fixing California.
    Let us now talk about elections. Last year, the Chairman 
and other Republicans, without giving Democrats on this 
Committee a heads-up, went to Los Angeles, wasting taxpayers' 
dollars and time to look for problems. Guess what? They found 
zero, zero problems.
    They visited the largest ballot processing center in the 
Nation, responsible for nearly 6 million registered voters. 
That is bigger than 28 States in the Nation. Not a single 
Committee, not a single Republican or political observer 
contested the outcome of any House race, or provided any 
evidence that California suffered from fraud or any other 
issues. Why is that? Hmm?
    Because California, Members, our election infrastructure is 
sound. We invest in a secured system, rigorous training and 
transparency at every level. California has worked hard to 
ensure that every eligible American voter can cast their vote. 
As frustrating as it may be to you and to other people, 
including myself at times, our fantastic State and local 
election workers make sure that our elections happen and that 
they are safe.
    As a mother of a veteran and a police officer, I know 
voters might serve far from their home, or they might be a 
first responder that has to work on Election Day. Voters cannot 
always take a day off. They might have mobility issues. This is 
why California established voting by mail; to make it so that 
every eligible Californian can have their voice heard. 
California's promise to our voters, whether we like how they 
vote or not, your voice as a voter is heard.
    Normally, I would welcome a discussion on improving 
election operations, but these are not normal times. You see, 
President Trump and his cronies, like Elon Musk, do not care 
about the rule of law or the Constitution. They are destroying 
the economy, attacking, and arresting judges and recently 
deported three American citizens' children, including a 2-year-
old toddler and a 4-year-old with stage 4 cancer, a rare 
cancer.
    If President Trump and his administration do not care about 
due process for a child with cancer, how can you honestly sit 
here and debate and believe that they believe in the 
Constitution or a free and fair election? Hogwash. They ignore 
judges when decisions do not go their way. They deny election 
results when they do not win.
    Let us be honest, Chairman, their actions on elections has 
one goal: to sow distrust in our election system, to suppress 
the vote, and to make it harder for Americans to participate in 
our democracy. Not your democracy, our democracy.
    Do you know what makes people question our elections? It is 
not California elections. It is President Trump, Elon Musk, and 
the Republican Party pushing lies and refusing to follow the 
law. Meanwhile, Trump's voting order and the Republican SAVE 
Act will create huge burdens of every American.
    You have allowed other Members to go beyond their time, but 
you do not like what I am saying, so you are trying to shut me 
down.
    The SAVE Act is nothing but a bill to try to cancel the 
vote of people that do not want to vote for you.
    I yield back.
    Chairman Steil. The gentlewoman yields back.
    All Members are reminded to refrain from the use of 
personalities directed at Members of Congress, the President, 
or the Vice President.
    All Members having used their time for questions, I would 
like to thank our witnesses for appearing before us today. 
Members of the Committee may have some additional questions for 
you, and we ask you to please respond to those questions in 
writing.
    Without objection, each Member will have 5 legislative days 
to insert additional material into the record, or to revise and 
extend their remarks.
    If there is no further business, I want to thank the 
Members for their participation.
    Without objection, the Committee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:36 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

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