[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                            MADE IN THE USA:
                  IGNITING THE INDUSTRIAL RENAISSANCE
                          OF THE UNITED STATES
=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                  SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC GROWTH, ENERGY
                       POLICY, AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS

                                 OF THE

                         COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT
                         AND GOVERNMENT REFORM

                      U.S.HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                             APRIL 29, 2025

                               __________

                           Serial No. 119-21

                               __________

Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform

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                       Available on: govinfo.gov,
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                             docs.house.gov
                             
                                __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
60-195 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------     
                             
              COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM

                    JAMES COMER, Kentucky, Chairman

Jim Jordan, Ohio                     Gerald E. Connolly, Virginia, 
Mike Turner, Ohio                        Ranking Minority Member
Paul Gosar, Arizona                  Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of 
Virginia Foxx, North Carolina            Columbia
Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin            Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts
Michael Cloud, Texas                 Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois
Gary Palmer, Alabama                 Ro Khanna, California
Clay Higgins, Louisiana              Kweisi Mfume, Maryland
Pete Sessions, Texas                 Shontel Brown, Ohio
Andy Biggs, Arizona                  Melanie Stansbury, New Mexico
Nancy Mace, South Carolina           Robert Garcia, California
Pat Fallon, Texas                    Maxwell Frost, Florida
Byron Donalds, Florida               Summer Lee, Pennsylvania
Scott Perry, Pennsylvania            Greg Casar, Texas
William Timmons, South Carolina      Jasmine Crockett, Texas
Tim Burchett, Tennessee              Emily Randall, Washington
Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia      Suhas Subramanyam, Virginia
Lauren Boebert, Colorado             Yassamin Ansari, Arizona
Anna Paulina Luna, Florida           Wesley Bell, Missouri
Nick Langworthy, New York            Lateefah Simon, California
Eric Burlison, Missouri              Dave Min, California
Eli Crane, Arizona                   Ayanna Pressley, Massachusetts
Brian Jack, Georgia                  Rashida Tlaib, Michigan
John McGuire, Virginia
Brandon Gill, Texas

                                 ------                                

                       Mark Marin, Staff Director
                   James Rust, Deputy Staff Director
                     Mitch Benzine, General Counsel
            Kim Waskowsky, Senior Professional Staff Member
                     Daniel Flores, Senior Counsel
                          Kyle Martin, Counsel
      Mallory Cogar, Deputy Director of Operations and Chief Clerk

                      Contact Number: 202-225-5074

                  Jamie Smith, Minority Staff Director
                      Contact Number: 202-225-5051
                                 ------                                

 Subcommittee On Economic Growth, Energy Policy, And Regulatory Affairs

                   Eric Burlison, Missouri, Chairman
Gary Palmer, Alabama                 Maxwell Frost, Florida, Ranking 
Clay Higgins, Louisiana                  Minority Member
Byron Donalds, Florida               Yassamin Ansari, Arizona
Scott Perry, Pennsylvania            Dave Min, California
Lauren Boebert, Colorado             Ro Khanna, California
                         
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                                                                   Page

Hearing held on April 29, 2025...................................     1

                               Witnesses

                              ----------                              


Mr. Chris Power, Founder and CEO, Hadrian
Oral Statement...................................................     5

Mr. Kevin Czinger, Founder, Divergent 3D
Oral Statement...................................................     7

Mr. Austin Bishop, CEO, New American Industrial Alliance
Oral Statement...................................................     9

Dr. Adam S. Hersh, Ph.D. (Minority Witness), Senior Economist, 
  Economic Policy Institute
Oral Statement...................................................    11

Written opening statements and bios are available on the U.S. 
  House of Representatives Document Repository at: 
  docs.house.gov.

                           Index of Documents

                              ----------                              


  * Letter, May 2, 2025, from Hadrian, to Subcommittee on 
  Economic Growth, Energy Policy, and Regulatory Affairs dated; 
  submitted by Rep. Burlison.

  * Statement, April 29, 2025, National Association of 
  Manufacturers; submitted by Rep. Burlison.

  * Article, CNBC, ``This is the Trump recession, CEOs say, with 
  tariff price increases, job losses coming''; submitted by Rep. 
  Frost.

  * Article, Center for American Progress, ``Trump's Tariff Pause 
  Doesn't Pause Economic Pain''; submitted by Rep. Frost.

  * Article, The Independent, ``Trump's tariffs driving thousands 
  of layoffs at U.S. Manufacturing Plants''; submitted by Rep. 
  Frost.


The documents listed above are available at: docs.house.gov.

 
                            MADE IN THE USA:
                  IGNITING THE INDUSTRIAL RENAISSANCE
                          OF THE UNITED STATES

                              ----------                              


                    Tuesday, April 29, 2025

                     U.S. House of Representatives

              Committee on Oversight and Government Reform

                Subcommittee on Economic Growth, Energy 
                     Policy, and Regulatory Affairs

                                           Washington, D.C.

    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 11:07 a.m., in 
room HVC-210, Capitol Visitor Center, Hon. Eric Burlison 
[Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Burlison, Higgins, Donalds, Perry, 
Frost, Min, and Khanna.
    Mr. Burlison. This hearing on the Subcommittee of Economic 
Growth, Energy Policy, and Regulatory Affairs will come to 
order. Welcome, everyone, to this meeting. Without objection, 
the Chair may declare a recess at any time.
    I recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening 
statement.
    We are here today to discuss an issue that is becoming 
increasingly urgent: the future of U.S. manufacturing. The 
United States is facing a need that it has never faced before: 
the need to shake off and reverse its fall as the global leader 
in manufacturing.
    We won the Second World War not just because our generals 
were great leaders and strategists, and not just because we put 
so many heroic men and women on the field of battle and in 
support, but because we manufactured our enemies into oblivion. 
The United States held approximately 40 percent of the globe's 
manufacturing in 1941. After Pearl Harbor, that vast 
manufacturing power became the free world's arsenal for 
democracy.
    For every German tank manufactured, we produced four tanks. 
For every merchant ship tonnage the Japanese built, we produced 
eight. For every aircraft carrier the Japanese deployed, we 
launched three. For every plane that combined Axis powers 
built, we, by ourselves, manufactured 1.5 planes.
    Before the war, the U.S. manufactured less than 3,000 
planes. By the end of the war, we had a force of 300,000 
planes. Overwhelming material was pivotal to our winning the 
war, and the United States left World War II as the most 
wealthy and powerful nation on Earth, in very large part 
because of our manufacturing prowess.
    Yet as time marched on and the good post-war times rolled, 
we began to forget how important our capacity to manufacture 
and innovate was to making, and keeping, America great.
    And as the cold war ended and we entered the ``end of 
history'' era, unprecedented globalization took hold. In that 
moment, instead of embracing new technologies or innovating in 
the manufacturing industry, we sold off our manufacturing 
birthright to other countries.
    A vast amount of what once was American manufacturing was 
shipped off to foreign manufacturing. In the end, we lost our 
manufacturing base, and that was not just because U.S. leaders 
supported globalization. It was also because we overregulated 
existing manufacturing and imposed enormous obstacles to the 
permitting of new manufacturing. This strangled possibilities 
for new growth and further encouraged U.S. manufacturers to 
move their manufacturing overseas.
    In the end, the United States' share of global 
manufacturing fell from the 40 percent it was in the 1950s to 
the 16 percent share we hold today. We lost millions of skilled 
labor jobs, the middle class has shrank, and communities across 
America have been harmed.
    Filling the void of the U.S. was China. China's share of 
global manufacturing increased at an exponential rate. China 
leaned in heavily on cheap labor, slave labor, and suicide-
inducing labor conditions to achieve the manufacturing share 
that it possesses today. And China's position as the current 
world leader in manufacturing poses economic, military, and 
national security threats to the United States.
    Nevertheless, there is hope we are approaching an American 
industrial renaissance. Under President Trump, the United 
States has the technology, the capital, and the political will 
to reshore manufacturing stateside. Congressional and executive 
branch efforts to decrease unnecessary regulatory burdens and 
streamline permitting processes will encourage reshoring. And 
by adopting automation and artificial intelligence, the United 
States can and will multiply the economic output of the average 
American worker exponentially.
    Salaries will rise as costs of goods stay low. Skilled 
labor and manufacturing employment that was extinguished due to 
globalization will return. The middle-class will expand again. 
We can and will bring manufacturing back to the United States. 
And, with that, I yield to Ranking Member Frost for his opening 
statement.
    Mr. Frost. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair, and thank you to 
the witnesses for being here this morning.
    Since the 1980s, the United States has faced a decline in 
manufacturing jobs that has left many workers feeling forgotten 
and turned away by many once thriving communities into ghost 
towns. Democrats are united in wanting to bring more good, 
high-paying manufacturing jobs to these communities and making 
sure America is leading the way in strategically significant 
manufacturing sectors of the future.
    But President Trump's disastrous tariff plan, which is 
estimated to increase costs to American households by $4,900 a 
year, is not the solution. During the Biden Administration, the 
Democrats' Made in America agenda resulted in legislation like 
the CHIPS and Science Act, the Infrastructure Investment and 
Jobs Act, and Democrats drafted this legislation with 
Republicans in a bipartisan way, and with the vital input of 
manufacturing workers, employers, and impacted communities.
    This legislation jump-started industry, helping to create 
more than 700,000 manufacturing jobs in the United States, and 
secure over $1 trillion in planned investments. Our country has 
not seen this much new factory construction in half a century. 
This legislation and these investments created during the Biden 
Administration should continue to pay off, creating over 
200,000 more jobs each year going forward, assuming no new 
policies stifle that growth.
    There is still so much to do and to support in terms of 
domestic manufacturing and creating good-paying, safe and 
affordable products here in the America while protecting our 
environment. I am here to work with anyone, regardless of 
political affiliation, to continue this work.
    But I am also concerned that instead of advancing the 
progress we have made over the last several years, we are going 
to trend in the opposite direction due to Trump's irrational 
blanket tariff policy. While Democrats' legislative 
achievements in manufacturing have created again more than 
700,000 manufacturing jobs, Trump's chaotic tariffs are 
expected to eliminate 770,000 jobs in 2025 alone.
    Tariffs are an important tool, and when used carefully and 
intelligently can help the American worker. But from slashing 
services at the VA to ``accidentally'' encouraging our air 
traffic controllers to resign and firing the essential workers 
that maintain our nuclear weapon stockpile, deporting American 
citizens, and discussing sensitive military operations on 
Signal, ``careful and intelligent'' does not describe this 
Administration, and that is the case with their tariff policy, 
as well.
    Investors are pulling back from doing business in America, 
which impacts critical industries and prevents companies from 
actually starting new businesses to make goods here in the 
United States. Hard-working Americans are seeing a tanking 
stock market tank, widespread firing, and are concerned about 
what is to come.
    I have heard from countless Central Floridians in my 
community who have fears. David, an Orlando retiree, has lost 
20 percent of his 401k in the last 2 months. Patricia, an 
Orlando resident, wrote in, saying she cannot make improvements 
to her home with the recent instability of the economy. And 
Delia, who also wrote into our office, a Winter Park working 
person, said she will not be able to afford the tariff-driven 
increase on the cost of food, housing, medicine, and other 
things, as well.
    We know there is a better way. The laws we led created the 
stability that manufacturers need to create jobs, and we work 
to make sure that they were jobs that Americans want and 
deserve, safe jobs that offer financial security and stability. 
Democrats increased both worker safety protections and worker 
safety inspections while making good wages a key component to 
the CHIPS and Science awards.
    The Democrat-led National Labor Relations Board cracked 
down on law-breaking corporations and fortified workers' right 
to organize. As we know, in 2023, President Biden became the 
first sitting U.S. President to ever walk a picket line when he 
marched with striking United Auto Worker members in Michigan.
    The President, Donald Trump, worked aggressively to put 
corporate profits over workers' rights during his last term, 
and he is doing it again. This is why we are going to see, in 
the second term, just like happened in the first term, that 
wealth inequality in this country will continue to rise.
    For starters, he attacked the National Labor Relations 
Board and its mission of defending workers' rights, illegally 
fired the one Democratic board member, like in his first term, 
and he is stuffing the board with anti-worker people. Elon Musk 
even called the NLRB ``unconstitutional,'' while Trump has 
praised Musk for firing striking workers. The President is also 
looking at repealing sick leave, minimum wage, and overtime 
protections for some categories of workers.
    While making working conditions worse, he has also made it 
less safe. During his first term, Trump had the fewest OSHA 
safety inspectors ever, and he has already fired two-thirds of 
the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health work 
force since retaking office.
    His assault on workers' rights and safety does not stop at 
the factory gate but it follows workers at home, as well. And 
this is important, because we cannot talk about bringing 
manufacturing jobs and this industry back to America without 
ensuring that we empower and protect the American worker. It is 
probably the most important part of this conversation, and 
Democrats are going to ensure that the American worker is front 
and center here.
    I look forward to working with my colleagues from both 
parties as well as workers' labor representative, private 
industry, to continue the manufacturing boom that was started 
by Democrats over the past 4 years. But this effort must never 
be at the expense of safety, dignity, and prosperity of the 
American worker.
    Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you. I am pleased to welcome our panel 
of expert witnesses who each bring experience and expertise 
that will be valuable for today's discussion on manufacturing.
    I would first like to welcome Chris Power, from Hadrian, 
who serves as the company's Chief Executive Office.
    Next we have Kevin Czinger, who is a Founder of Divergent 
and currently serves as its Executive Chairman.
    Next we have Austin Bishop, who is the Chief Executive of 
the New American Industrial Alliance.
    And last we have Adam Hersh, who serves as a Senior 
Economist at the Economic Policy Institute.
    Thank you each for being here, and with that I would ask 
everyone to stand.
    Pursuant to Committee rule 9(g), the witnesses will please 
stand and raise their right hands.
    Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are 
about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God?
    [Chorus of I dos.]
    Mr. Burlison. Let the record show that the witnesses 
answered in the affirmative. You may be seated.
    We appreciate you being here today. We look forward to your 
testimony. Let me remind you that we have read your written 
statement and it will appear in full in the hearing record. 
Please limit your oral arguments to 5 minutes. It is very 
simple. The light in front of you will turn yellow when you 
have 1 minute left, and then when it is red your time has 
expired.
    As a reminder, please press the button, and often people do 
not know to speak directly into the microphone. So, this is 
being covered on C-SPAN, and we want the American people to 
hear what you have to say.
    And with that I recognize Mr. Power for his opening 
statement.

                        STATEMENT OF CHRIS POWER

                            FOUNDER AND CEO

                                HADRIAN

    Mr. Power. Thank you, Chairman Burlinson and Ranking Member 
Frost, and members of the Subcommittee. I appreciate the 
opportunity to appear here today.
    I came to this country from Australia 5 years ago, purely 
because I recognized that, as the Chairman quite rightly said, 
we are past the end of history for Kiama phase. And what we 
have done to the United States is de-industrialized the country 
over the last 40 years, some through our own mistakes and some 
through forcible Chinese policy, where they are using 
aggressive subsidies to pull out critical manufacturing 
capability from offshore.
    And what I recognized before I came here to make as big of 
an impact on the country as possible is that Americans treat 
manufacturing as a kind of globalism-free trade over the last 
40 years, and China has quite rightly treated it as a strategic 
capability of being able to make things onshore.
    And the Chairman was quite right in that what won World War 
II was our ability to pivot the commercial manufacturing base 
into the defense base when it really mattered. And over the 
last 40 years we have offshored everything that was not bolted 
down to the defense industrial base by regulations like ITAR.
    So, we are in a real crisis now, and the impact of that, 
that both the Chairman and Ranking Member Frost were quite 
right, is that it decimated the middle class, it decimated the 
American manufacturing work force, and culturally that means no 
one wants to work in manufacturing because why would you sign 
up your son or daughter to go into an industry that is 
declining? So, we have created this real crisis for ourselves, 
and now that China is a real global threat, we are in very much 
a crisis mode.
    So, I came here to make a difference in that, and I will 
provide some specific recommendations. But in reality, what 
this is all about is the highly skilled American work force. 
And for the last 40 years, because of those declining jobs, 
because the revenue has gone out of the country, there are less 
factories, there are less good jobs. And now we are at a point 
where most of the skilled American work force is in their late 
50s and early 60s. And by skilled I mean incredibly highly 
skilled, especially the defense industrial base. It normally 
takes 10 to 20 years to train someone. These are very highly 
paid jobs of the defense primes or subcontractors of the 
defense primes, that are critical to remain onshore.
    But because of that demographic load you have got most of 
the work force aging out across the next decade, as people get 
older and they retire, and we are losing their knowledge and 
skills with them, and we are forgetting as a country to 
manufacture, and it is all about the people on the ground floor 
that are getting the job, day in and day out. And they are just 
retiring faster and faster and faster.
    So, what my company does, Hadrian--we are the fastest-
growing manufacturer in the United States--is we build 
autonomous, AI-driven factories where we are not replacing 
people, but we are making the American work force ten times 
more efficient, so that we can compete globally while creating 
new and advanced jobs along the way.
    And the only way to reindustrialize this country is to 
leapfrog the Chinese system, which has been built on the back 
of slave labor conditions, enormous CCP policy-led energy 
subsidies, raw material subsidies, that are simply not a level 
playing field with American innovation.
    So, what our company is built to do is build and rapidly 
scale United States factories that are software and robotics 
first, that do not replace people but let them be ten times 
more productive and also simplify things so that 100 percent of 
our work force now have never set foot inside a factory before 
they join our company. We can train them in 30 days, and not 10 
to 20 years. And what means is that there are new types of jobs 
coming online that are higher paid, they are better, friendlier 
conditions, and it allows us to scale with the demand that the 
country needs, especially in critical areas like shipbuilding 
and munitions, where the No. 1 problem that you will hear from 
program officers or other actors in the shipbuilding space is, 
``You could give me a billion dollars. I simply cannot hire 
enough welders. They no longer exist in the country. There 
simply are not enough machinists or quality inspectors in the 
country.''
    And the only way to do that to meet the national mission of 
both reindustrializing the country to compete globally in this 
new world order where we are disconnecting from the Chinese 
economy and to meet the emerging needs of the defense 
industrial base, the only way to do that is build factories 
that give the American work force superpowers, and have them 
have better jobs, more highly paid jobs that are robotics and 
software first, and allows us to scale as a country by 
leapfrogging China with what America is best at. We still have 
global leadership in software, AI, and robotics, and the point 
of building these advanced factories is to give the American 
work force superpowers, so that we can scale as a country and 
compete globally without falling into the trap of low-paid 
jobs, or simply giving up the farm and not being a 
manufacturing superpower anymore, which is critically 
important.
    There are two critical points that are in my testimony but 
I would like to reinforce, given that the time is up. One is 
that much of our spend that is going to China is through 
defense primes or other manufacturers in the U.S. that get paid 
by the Federal Government but end up offshoring a big chunk of 
their supply chain. One thing that you would immediately create 
millions and millions of jobs and demand in the country is by 
forcing a statement that if you get paid in America you must 
have your supply chain and make it in America, without us 
subsidizing the competitive landscape.
    And the second thing that I would like to encourage 
everyone to think about, whether it is a tariff policy or other 
policy, is that we have to create an even playing field with 
China. Our energy costs now, raw materials cost, not to mention 
labor subsidies, are ten times greater than China's, so to 
compete globally we have to find strategic ways to give the 
American manufacturers a level playing field with the egregious 
CCP subsidies that get put on core inputs to manufacturing like 
energy and raw materials cost.
    Thank you for the time.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you. And I think when the yellow light 
turns on we have 30 seconds left, just as a reference.
    I now recognize Mr. Czinger for his opening statement.

                       STATEMENT OF KEVIN CZINGER

                                FOUNDER

                              DIVERGENT 3D

    Mr. Czinger. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Ranking Member 
and distinguished Members of the Committee, for the opportunity 
to testify here today. I am representing my company, Divergent, 
and I am also here as someone who has spent a lifetime 
believing in America's capacity to lead.
    I grew up working class in Cleveland, an industrial city 
that once took great pride in helping power the American 
economy. Football helped me earn a college education as the 
first in my family to go to school, and I later served as a 
U.S. Marine Corps infantryman before becoming an inventor and 
technology entrepreneur. What drives me is the belief that this 
country, more than any other, has the ingenuity, the grit, and 
the values to lead the world in innovation and in actually 
creating things.
    I founded Divergent because I saw what happened to 
America's industrial core. We did not just outsource jobs. We 
outsourced our key core national strength. We weakened our 
supply chains to save a buck in the short run, both in industry 
and in Silicon Valley. We ignored the needs of our workers and 
our communities. We gave China the lead. And through turning 
over our supply chain to them we gave them, in plain sight, 
hidden control of our national security and our economic 
security.
    Now we need a fix. This cannot be done through traditional, 
incremental steps or going back to old technology. We must 
fundamentally rethink manufacturing and the factory itself.
    That is why Divergent was built from a clean sheet of 
paper. We started with what the future demands today. Divergent 
developed the world's first fully integrated digital industrial 
system. By combining together in one system generative design, 
additive manufacturing, advanced materials and robotics, we 
design, print, and assemble high-performance structures at 
industrial volumes faster and with greater flexibility than 
ever before in the history of the planet.
    It is, today, fully operational, proven across aerospace, 
defense, and automotive platforms, and it is entirely built and 
based here in the United States.
    We have proven the system at scale, delivering components 
for fighter jets, hypersonics, and space systems. We are 
currently working with every major U.S. defense prime and with 
some of the most demanding commercial auto companies in the 
world, including Aston Martin, McLaren, Mercedes, and Bugatti. 
These are production programs with cars out on the road today, 
with AI-designed, 3D-printed structures built here in the 
United States. These companies that I mentioned do not 
compromise on quality, safety, and precision.
    A depleted munitions stockpile, huge sustainment backlogs, 
and obsolete parts are plaguing the Defense Department. 
Divergent is ready to step in now and scale production with a 
scale-ready digital factory system, faster, more resilient, and 
at a far lower cost to the taxpayer.
    Now think ahead: a nationwide network of next-generation 
American factories across, and can be in virtually every state 
of the union, that do not just build resilience, they rebuild 
America's industry. This is not one factory making one product. 
It is factories, each able to serve many industries, produce 
any parts, and support hundreds of companies across the 
country. That is what Divergent enables. That is how we upskill 
the American work force. That is how we take jobs back from 
China and bring them back home, under standards that uphold 
human rights and deliver good wages.
    This is about more than advanced technology. It is about 
responsibility and resilience. It is about rebuilding an 
industrial base that is accountable to the Nation it serves. 
Because we have seen what happens when fragile global supply 
chains break, whether in a pandemic or in a war.
    After the Soviet Union launched Sputnik, President Kennedy 
went to Dr. von Braun, then the Space Director of NASA, and 
asked how the U.S. could catch up. Wernher Von Braun said, 
``Mr. President, we will not catch them in Earth orbit. We need 
to beat them to the Moon.'' The good news is in the last decade 
we have done that moon shot and we now have a fully digital 
factory that is ready to scale.
    Divergent is proof of what is possible when innovation is 
unleashed. Now think about what we could achieve if we aligned 
policy, capital, and the will to accelerate this innovative 
transformation. This is our chance to re-industrialize with 
purpose.
    Let us not only play defense. Let us play offense. Let us 
not only reshore manufacturing over the coming years. Let us 
leapfrog China and disrupt them with proven technology. Let us 
lead again. And let us do it in a way that builds a more 
vibrant, secure, and equitable America.
    Thank you. I look forward to your questions.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Bishop for his 
opening statement.

                       STATEMENT OF AUSTIN BISHOP

                                  CEO

                    NEW AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL ALLIANCE

    Mr. Bishop. Chairman Burlison, Ranking Member Frost, and 
Members of the Committee thank you again for the opportunity to 
testify today.
    We are at a pivotal moment in American history that demands 
urgency, imagination, and national unity. The question before 
us is whether America can lead the world in cutting-edge 
production again but whether we choose to.
    Reindustrialization is not about nostalgia or recreating a 
past economy but about building a dynamic, future-facing 
industrial base that strengthens national security, revives 
economic mobility for working Americans, and reclaims American 
leadership in critical sectors.
    This is a non-partisan challenge and a once-in-a-generation 
opportunity. As the Ranking Member said, work force is at the 
front of this. I am a guy from Cleveland, Ohio, as well, and 
over the decades that I grew up there, and certainly decades 
leading up to that, I wished that there was this much interest 
in ensuring that our industrial base stayed onshore. And what 
we saw over those few decades is something that we have a 
chance to reverse going into the future.
    The COVID-19 pandemic exposed a painful truth, which is our 
overreliance on globalized supply chains has left American 
families vulnerable and our economy brittle. Basic goods, from 
personal protective equipment to microchips, became scarce 
almost overnight. Moms in the Midwest could not get baby 
formula because the Suez Canal was blocked, an absurdity that 
everyone must admit reveals the massive weakness created by 
surrendering sovereignty over where and how things are 
produced.
    Resilience on far-flung manufacturing hubs, particularly in 
Asia, has caused a profound loss of confidence in our system's 
resilience. We are all worse off in a world where the West 
cannot manufacture certain goods in abundance. That reality 
forces us to rely on the good graces of distant powers to meet 
our needs, weakens our militaries' ability to deter aggression 
or defend its allies, and deprives millions of Americans in 
every state of stable, high-productive employment in high-tech 
industries.
    Moreover, this vulnerability was not accidental. 
Deindustrialization was a choice resulting from bad policy 
decisions and flawed ideologies that prioritized short-term 
cost savings over long-term national strength and discouraged 
investment in capital-intensive industries. Cheap labor abroad 
and foreign subsidization, combined with burdensome regulations 
and protracted permitting processes, hollowed out our domestic 
manufacturing base. We socialized the costs and privatized the 
gains, as entire cities were reduced to rusty shells of their 
former selves while the S&P 500 made record highs. We should 
remember the pandemic as a warning shot: we cannot entrust our 
prosperity to fragile, distant supply chains.
    Further compounding this is the reality that China is an 
increasingly hostile geopolitical rival and sits at the center 
of many global supply chains. Today, the United States depends 
heavily on China for critical minerals, semiconductors, 
pharmaceuticals, ships; everyone in this room knows this, at 
this point.
    These supply chains could collapse overnight in the event 
of conflict or even heightened tensions. We must be clear-eyed: 
economic dependency is strategic vulnerability. If we cannot 
produce the essentials of modern life within our own borders, 
we are not truly sovereign.
    Onshoring critical industries is not simply an economic 
imperative but a national security mandate.
    Bringing manufacturing home is also not about reliving the 
past; it is about forging a better future. The future has to 
look like the future. I say this again as a guy whose city is 
maybe most famous for its rivers catching on fire. We are no 
fans of that. The old industrial jobs of the 20th century were 
the foundation of the American middle class, providing millions 
with good wages, dignity, and upward mobility. Since 
manufacturing's share of the GDP declined from 30 percent in 
the 1950s to just 11 or 12 percent today, we have witnessed the 
undeniable hollowing out of our middle class.
    However, the manufacturing jobs of tomorrow will not look 
like the jobs of the past. They will be extensions of the 
advanced manufacturing jobs that we already have here in 
America, at companies like some of my colleagues here: highly 
skilled, technologically advanced careers working with 
robotics, precision manufacturing, AI logistics, and more. 
Onshore companies will also need workers for sales, 
construction, management, maintenance. This represents millions 
and millions of jobs, many of which do not require a 4-year 
degree.
    By investing in a modern industrial base, we can rebuild a 
middle class that is not only larger but is better equipped for 
the demands of the 21st-century economy.
    Finally, onshoring manufacturing will ignite innovation 
across our economy. Historically, industrial leadership has 
been inseparable from technological leadership. When we 
manufacture, we invent. When we lose production capabilities, 
we lose the ability to innovate. Today America lags in critical 
manufacturing R&D areas, from battery production to advanced 
materials to microfabrication.
    By bringing industry back home, we will secure our supply 
chains and unlock new frontiers of research, entrepreneurship, 
and invention. The average American will benefit far more from 
reliable access to goods and a healthy, more dynamic economy 
where workers share more directly in the Nation's growth and 
prosperity.
    Finally, reindustrialization is not about going backward; 
it is about moving America forward. It is about making America 
safer, more prosperous, and more unified.
    It is about empowering the next generation of American 
workers with the tools to build a better future.
    Thank you again for the opportunity to testify. I look 
forward to your questions.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Hersh for his 
opening statement.

                   STATEMENT OF ADAM S. HERSH, Ph.D.

                            SENIOR ECONOMIST

                       ECONOMIC POLICY INSTITUTE

    Mr. Hersh. Chair Burlison, Ranking Member Frost, Members of 
the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to talk with 
you today. My name is Adam Hersh, and I am a Senior Economist 
at the Economic Policy Institute, where I study trade, 
industrial policy, manufacturing, and the U.S.-China economic 
relationship.
    Today's hearing covers an important topic for legislators. 
Manufacturing is a special and economically critical activity. 
And I have to say I agree with most of what I have heard from 
my co-panelists here about the causes of its long-term decline.
    While we are having a timely discussion, the premise for 
this hearing is somewhat out of date. The previous 
Administration had already ignited a renaissance in key 
manufacturing industries. 2024 saw the highest U.S. 
manufacturing investment in our history. 2023 was the next-
highest year. This was achieved with an embrace of industrial 
policy that incentivized U.S. manufacturing and defended 
against unfair and mercantilist practices from our trading 
partners. Now, in less than 100 days, the current 
Administration has squandered this progress with policymaking 
chaos, senseless cuts to critical and effective government 
programs and investments, and an indiscriminate, non-strategic 
approach to trade policy. Economic indicators now, for the 
manufacturing sector outlook, are hitting near or at their 
lowest levels in recorded history, and economic policy 
uncertainty is at its highest level ever.
    To be sure, industrial policies begun under President Biden 
left room for improvement. But President Trump is not doing 
this. He is not so much throwing the baby out with the bath 
water as he is demolishing the entire bathroom. As a Nation, 
this will leave us all poorer, more dependent on foreign 
technology leadership, and more exposed to supply chain 
disruptions.
    There is another way forward. It is not going back to the 
failed trade policies that brought us here, but it is also not 
continuing with the chaotic, indiscriminate, and non-strategic 
tariff policies we have seen for the past 3 months. Nor will we 
get there with corporate tax cuts and deregulation.
    The path forward is to recognize the emerging consensus in 
economics that industrial policy is both feasible and 
effective, and if we heed its recommendations for how and when 
it can succeed. I provide some detail of this in my written 
testimony. But I will summarize here by saying the economy is 
rife with market failures that call for strong public sector 
interventions and scientific research and coordination of 
economic stakeholders. Research finds that public investments 
in science yield a return on investment of between 140 and 210 
percent. To put it in comparison, the long-run average return 
for the S&P 500 is less than 10 percent.
    Public research complements and enhances private sector 
development. For example, my co-panelists here are no doubt 
impressive and even visionary entrepreneurs. But they stand on 
the shoulders of 3D printing technology that was developed by a 
government scientist in a public research center in Japan.
    In addition to research, policymakers should identify 
priority industries for economic and national security 
importance, analyze the unique webs of complementary 
investments required to succeed in those industries, and devise 
coordination strategies specific to each application. This is 
how China's BYD became the world's No. 1 electric vehicle 
manufacturer. They did not do it by stealing U.S. technology. 
We do not have that technology here.
    Succeeding at industrial policy requires substantial state 
capacity, which the so-called Department of Government 
Efficiency is rapidly dismantling. When China began its 
economic reforms in the 1980s it did not cut its bureaucracy. 
It ousted the political hacks and added millions more 
bureaucrats, scientists, engineers, management professionals. 
There is no successful implementation of industrial policy in 
world history where state capacity is in decline.
    Finally, let me talk about manufacturing jobs. These were 
not always good jobs. They only became good jobs when 
unionization achieved high density. As manufacturing unions 
have declined so has manufacturing job quality. We will not 
restore manufacturing jobs to anything like the levels in 
America's economic heyday, but we can ensure that the jobs we 
create everywhere in the economy provide dignity and decent 
pay.
    Thank you. I look forward to our questions.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Perry, from 
Pennsylvania, for 5 minutes of questions.
    Mr. Perry. Thank you, Chairman. Mr. Bishop, it is estimated 
that the U.S. has lost 3.7 million jobs since 2001, largely due 
to Chinese illegal trade practices. You know, they bypassed the 
trade rules, as you know, through shell companies, backdoor 
tactics. They steal protected American intellectual property, 
and then they use that--the products--to undercut American 
sales.
    Since 1981, the U.S. Federal Government--that is what China 
does, right. But since 1981, our government has issued at least 
one manufacturing-related regulation per week, since 1981. Now 
that is a long list of regulations, which, quite honestly, has 
played into China's hands, bringing our manufacturing to a 
standstill, which is what they love.
    Do you have any recommendations for where to start with 
onshoring manufacturing deregulation? Like where do we start? 
What is the highest priority, and then give us like a roadmap, 
if you have one, about how to deal with that.
    Mr. Bishop. Thank you for the question. I mean, to this 
point, just the example of BYD that just came up, they did not 
steal the technology, for sure, but they were able to leapfrog 
us over the last 5, 6 years, literally because American ex-auto 
executives and consultants went over and gave them the 
playbook. I know this because I know a number of these ex-
executives and these consultants. And one of the reasons that 
they are able to take ideas and then turn them into a reality a 
lot faster is on the regulatory front.
    To your point, I think one of the things that we should be 
aiming the highest at, and this is certainly on everyone's mind 
right now, is NEPA regulation. And again, as I said, the town 
that I am from had a lot of rivers catching on fire in the 
1970s. I am, for sure, no fan of that. But I think we are so 
far away from where the pendulum has swung from those days, to 
now we have law firms making hundreds of millions of dollars a 
year just doing NEPA compliance regulation.
    If I had one thing to focus on I think it would be a more 
commonsense regulatory regime that is modern and built for the 
century that we are in rather than something that was built in 
the 1970s.
    Mr. Perry. Well, as a person who is in the manufacturing 
business, we, I think, on this Committee, would like your 
specific recommendations on where to start, whether that is 
NEPA or something else, some things that are specific that 
plague us. Look, we have got a lot of work to do, right. One a 
week since 1981. We obviously have a lot of work to do. But we 
need to start with some kind of prioritization and get after 
it.
    Mr. Power, China accounted for almost 15 percent of all 
U.S. imports in 2023. It is also the largest foreign supplier 
of critical technology for the Department of Defense. Greg 
Hayes, the CEO of Raytheon, stated that it would be impossible 
for him to decouple from China due to the company's reliance on 
thousands of Chinese suppliers. Meanwhile, the Communist Party 
of China considers the United States of America and its 
businesses not strategic adversaries, not strategic 
competitors, but the enemy.
    What are the real-world implications, as you see them, for 
America's warfighting capabilities if we do not change course?
    Mr. Power. Thank you for the question, sir. In my opinion, 
we are on a 5-to 8-year clock with China threatening Taiwan. 
And in the current state of the vast majority of defense 
manufacturing the supply chains are so intermingled with rare 
earth minerals that produce magnets.
    Mr. Perry. Do not call them rare earth. They are not rare. 
They are critical but they are not rare. There is plenty of 
them in this country. We are just not allowed to go get them. 
But carry on.
    Mr. Power. That is correct, sir. I appreciate the 
clarification. They are so intermingled that even--I will give 
you a practical example. There are components on the F-35 
program that the DoD gave an exception--I think it was a 
magnet--that is in the Chinese supply chain. And it is not just 
one part. It is not like a class of things, like magnets. It is 
all over the place. And yes, it will take time to decouple. It 
is not a trivial thing to do. But in my mind the only thing to 
do is pass legislation that says if you are getting paid in 
America you have to have your whole supply chain in America and 
let the economic system correct. Because at this point they 
could shut off a lot of our critical programs, not to mention 
semiconductors, and we would be flying completely blind, and we 
would simply not have the productive capacity to make it past 
the first 2 weeks of a conflict.
    Mr. Perry. Mr. Chairman, I yield.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Frost for his 
5 minutes of questions.
    Mr. Frost. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am really glad that 
my Republican colleagues want to continue the Democratic 
historic efforts to rebuild America's manufacturing sector and 
revitalize local economies, an effort that has led to the 
creation of over 700,000 manufacturing jobs during President 
Biden's term.
    But the goal is not simply just the quantity of jobs but 
also the quality of these jobs, as well. We have to be focused 
on creating manufacturing jobs and working conditions that 
allow workers to actually prosper and support their families. 
This includes rules for better worker safety, increases in OSHA 
inspections, an emphasis in prevailing wages when awarding 
Federal funding, and working closely with organized labor.
    Mr. Hersh, how does a unionized manufacturing work force 
benefit workers and the manufacturing industry?
    Mr. Hersh. Thank you for the question. It benefits in 
several ways. No. 1 is it attracts high-skilled work force with 
good wages and good compensation, and it retains them so that 
they can accumulate skills on the job that get fed back into 
the production process.
    No. 2 is it gives the workers from the shop floor, who 
understand the production process, the ability to contribute 
and work with management in designing more efficiencies and 
improving production as well as innovating and products.
    Mr. Frost. And how does a unionized manufacturing work 
force also benefit the people who buy their products and the 
people in the community as a whole?
    Mr. Hersh. Well, this is something that Henry Ford 
recognized when he started paying a living wage to his workers 
back at the turn of the previous century. He recognized that 
for workers in communities to be able to have the consumption 
to meet the growing production capacity of our economy they 
needed to be paid a decent wage. So, unions help provide that 
decent wage. When unions go away, the wages of the 
manufacturing jobs decline. We have been adding manufacturing 
jobs, but on net, in large part, these are in parts of the 
country where labor standards are quite low and not very well 
enforced. So, while manufacturing has been expanding, the 
quality of those jobs has been in decline. Essentially we are 
creating American maquiladoras.
    Mr. Frost. And union apprenticeships can also help us, and 
they frequently boost manufacturing by helping provide us with 
the skilled and reliable work force that is needed. Mr. Hersh, 
what do these moves tell us about the quality of manufacturing 
jobs that Trump policies will create? And the moves I am 
talking about are the fact that President Trump has tried to 
convince workers that his policies will be good for them, while 
at the same time working aggressively to attack collective 
bargaining rights and the agencies responsible for protecting 
worker health and safety.
    Mr. Hersh. Well, I think Commerce Secretary Lutnick has 
given us a clear vision of what these jobs will look like from 
the Trump administration. He says that Americans should be 
screwing little screws into iPhones. Now, these are not the 
jobs of the future that are going to make our country 
prosperous again.
    Mr. Frost. The Trump Administration also is working 
aggressively to strip Americans of their regulatory 
protections. This is problem for all of us as industrial 
hazards go beyond the factor door and extend to surrounding 
communities, as well. Without these protections in place and in 
force, these hazards threaten our drinking water, the air we 
breathe, the food we eat, and the products we use. Some would 
have us believe that it is a zero sum game, that you have to 
pick one or the other, zero regulation, rolling everything 
back, or regulation up the wazoo and no one can do anything.
    But I think with the use of a core technology and a skilled 
work force and good workers we are able to have a world where 
everybody can thrive.
    Mr. Hersh, how do current regulatory protections keep 
manufacturing workers safe, not just at work but when they are 
at home, as well?
    Mr. Hersh. These regulations exist for a reason, and often 
they are working so well that people have long forgotten the 
problems that they were put in place to solve. When we take 
them away they are going to be problems again. And what they 
will do is shift the costs and the risks from the companies who 
are doing this to the workers, to the communities where 
production is happening, to the country as a whole and 
consumers.
    You know, people do not want to have polluted water and 
polluted air in their communities. They do not want their kids 
playing on a playground where there are toxic chemicals in the 
air. They do not want to go fishing where there are toxic 
chemicals in the water. So, these regulations play an important 
role in preventing that.
    And the way we could be using tariff policy instead of this 
chaotic and indiscriminate approach, which is disrupting and 
causing so much uncertainty, is we could be using this to 
create a regime of high standards, whether it is for worker 
rights or whether it is for environmental protection, whether 
it is for stopping the pollution of carbon emissions, putting 
those costs back onto the goods that are being produced abroad 
without those protections.
    Mr. Frost. Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you. I now recognize myself for 5 
minutes. I want to start, Mr. Czinger, during one of the 
previous witness's testimony it was said that you, American 
manufacturing, is standing on the shoulders of 3D printing that 
was developed by other governments in Japan. Would you say that 
is accurate, that you are standing on the shoulders of that 
technology?
    Mr. Czinger. Specifically, as to what we do, our printing 
machine is not based on any Japanese patents. It is solely 
based on U.S. inventions, a U.S. supply chain, and is built 
within our factories in the U.S.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you. Many critics argue that 
manufacturing simply cannot return to the U.S. because we have 
high labor costs. From your perspective, what is the strongest 
counter-argument to that?
    Mr. Czinger. The strongest counter-argument is that right 
now we have European carmakers, that we are relatively high-
cost labor market, California, shipping to Aston Martin and 
other companies. So, Aston Martin, Bugatti, McLaren, Mercedes, 
and Porsche, these are customers of an American company, with 
American workers, shipping today. I think that is because 
American innovation can create tools for American workers that 
allow them to do things faster, better, and cheaper. And when 
that happens, then you create a competitive manufacturing 
infrastructure, which we absolutely can have, and we absolutely 
can rebuild our global manufacturing market share. But it has 
to be based on new leapfrog technology that exists today 
commercially.
    Mr. Burlison. Can you give us an insight as to the issues 
regarding supply chain, for example, the resources that you 
need? You have some objects in front of you that are printed 
with a type of aluminum. I think that the last aluminum smelter 
was in southeast Missouri--it is no longer there--in the United 
States. Is there any concerns about the core materials in that 
supply chain?
    Mr. Czinger. I would say we have a variety of materials 
that range from aluminum alloys we develop to high-temp 
materials for hypersonic applications to high-strength 
materials for munitions. From the very start, and the company 
was founded about a decade ago, we wanted to make sure that we 
had a secure supply chain, so we use U.S. allied suppliers. 
What I would say is these are metal powders. That atomization 
process, there is no reason that with different areas in the 
United States that have cheap, abundant energy, such as natural 
gas, that we could not bring back atomization production of 
metal powders and scale that as we build advanced 
manufacturing. And that is something we absolutely can do and 
should do.
    Mr. Burlison. Mr. Power, we have had previous hearings on 
the situation with our energy infrastructure. Can you expound 
on what companies, what is going through their process when 
they are deciding where to locate a facility, and how much does 
electricity cost and availability play into that?
    Mr. Power. Thank you for the question, Mr. Chairman. Energy 
costs and regulations related to energy are a huge part of 
where we decide to put new factories in the United States. 
First, just for speed of building you would be probably 
surprised at how hard--we could build a factory faster than we 
could get the permits to rig up electricity to it, in certain 
states, which is a huge barrier to speed and pace, especially 
in the United States. And energy costs are such a huge part of 
our cost base that compared to China I think our energy cost is 
10 to 20 times, without subsidies.
    And the second point I would make on energy costs is 95 
percent of the cost of aluminum, as an example, is actually the 
cost of energy. So, having energy too cheap to medium in the 
United States is not just helpful for running factories and 
having energy grids that can scale with all these advanced 
factories, but also for the raw material costs and inputs that 
are being passed on to our customers. So, I think it is 
incredibly important, and strength of the grid, clean power, 
and then the cheapness and scalability of that power really 
drive a lot of the decisions of where we put factories, where 
we put data centers, and any advanced facility going into the 
American states.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you. I yield back, and I now recognize 
Mr. Khanna, from California, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Khanna. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Power, I appreciated 
your testimony and your focus on innovation, your focus on 
stabilizing demand, on building capacity. I noticed, even 
though you are here as a Republican-called witness there was a 
word missing in your testimony, the beautiful word of 
``tariffs.'' I assume by that omission you do not think that 
President Trump's tariff strategy is working in building 
advanced manufacturing here.
    Mr. Power. Thank you for the question, Congressman. We are 
not really impacted by tariffs, and it is hard for me to 
comment on it directly in this hearing, because our entire 
supply chain is regulated, that we have to have everything from 
raw materials and everything onshore. So, for United States 
companies that serve the defense market, we do not really buy 
anything offshore, and it is hard for me to comment on----
    Mr. Khanna. Mr. Power, you are certainly a thoughtful 
person. I mean, if the President asked you, do you think his 
tariff policy is working to bring advanced manufacturing into 
the United States, would you answer yes or no?
    Mr. Power. I think we are starting to see countries come to 
the table and negotiate. But my perspective is purely China 
focused.
    Mr. Khanna. So, do you think his policy is working, in 
terms of the way he has implemented the tariff policies?
    Mr. Power. I think we are going to start to see tariffs 
work over the next 90 to 100 days. As things settle down----
    Mr. Khanna. You support his tariff policy.
    Mr. Power. I think tariff policy that means China cannot 
hide manufactured goods going through other countries----
    Mr. Khanna. No. I am not asking you theoretically. I am 
saying the way the President has gone about the tariff policy, 
do you support it or not?
    Mr. Power. Yes, largely I support tariff policy to reshore 
United States manufacturing.
    Mr. Khanna. Do you support Trump's tariff policies?
    Mr. Power. Yes.
    Mr. Khanna. Mr. Czinger, do you support Trump's tariff 
policies? Mr. Czinger, do you support Trump's tariff policies 
as he has implemented it?
    Mr. Czinger. I am not an expert on tariff policies, and I 
would tell you I am an expert----
    Mr. Khanna. Do you support----
    Mr. Czinger. If I may----
    Mr. Khanna. You know, I noticed none of the Republican 
witnesses mentioned tariffs, the beautiful word ``tariffs.'' 
Here he is, on a manufacturing industrial policy, the three 
Republican experts are recommending everything but tariffs, 
everything but tariffs. Your testimony did not have tariffs. 
Correct?
    Mr. Czinger. I am an expert on enabling advanced 
manufacturing scale-up in the United States and not on tariffs.
    Mr. Khanna. Did your testimony have any word of tariff in 
it, your opening testimony?
    Mr. Czinger. Of course not. I did not come to testify on 
tariffs.
    Mr. Khanna. Mr. Power, did your testimony have any word 
``tariff'' in it?
    Mr. Power. No, sir. I was asked to testify on bringing in 
advanced manufacturing to the United States.
    Mr. Khanna. Mr. Bishop, did your testimony have anything to 
say with tariffs in it?
    Mr. Bishop. No.
    Mr. Khanna. So, the three Republican witnesses come to a 
hearing on industrial policy, and none of them mentioned the 
word ``tariff,'' not a single one. And yet all Donald Trump is 
doing is tariff policy, when the three Republican witnesses are 
recommending 100 different things other than tariff policy.
    Mr. Bishop, do you agree with Donald Trump's tariff policy?
    Mr. Bishop. I am not here as an economic expert.
    Mr. Khanna. You are saying you are not here as economic 
experts, and yet you are giving us all of these recommendations 
for how we build an industrial base. Is it that you do not have 
any expertise that we should just pick up any random citizen, 
or are you here with some economic expertise on industrial 
policy?
    Mr. Bishop. Is that for me?
    Mr. Khanna. Yes.
    Mr. Bishop. Oh, sorry. I misspoke on this. I mean, On 
tariffs, this is just one--like these guys, as well, we are 
focused on building companies here.
    Mr. Khanna. But I do not understand how----
    Mr. Bishop. And there is----
    Mr. Khanna. The President of the United States is saying 
the way to build manufacturing is to have these tariff 
policies. You are here to testify on manufacturing, how we are 
going to build it, and you are telling me you do not have an 
opinion of whether the Trump tariff policy is successful or 
not?
    Mr. Bishop. We are here to represent private industry, 
people who are actually building companies, not people who are 
theoretical.
    Mr. Khanna. This is not a theoretical matter. He has 
implemented tariffs. I am not even trying to trick you. Do you 
agree with all his tariff policies or do you disagree with 
them? Or are you so afraid that you do not know what to say?
    Mr. Bishop. I think all of us have been really clear. This 
is not what we are here to talk about.
    Mr. Khanna. But do you agree with it or disagree with it? 
Yes or no? I mean, you can say either thing.
    Mr. Bishop. I have the same position as these guys. We are 
here to talk about how to incentivize more manufacturing and 
industrial jobs.
    Mr. Khanna. Right. But do you think that the President's 
tariff policies are doing that, or not?
    Mr. Bishop. I think it is a mix. As Chris said----
    Mr. Khanna. Do you think some of it is correct and some of 
it is wrong? Do you think some of Trump's tariff policies have 
not worked?
    Mr. Bishop. No, I am saying I agree with actually what 
Chris was saying, which is that what we have seen so far, and 
what we are going to be seeing over the next 90 to 100 days has 
been really interesting, especially as more countries are 
coming back to the table. But I cannot----
    Mr. Khanna. It is mind-boggling to me----
    Mr. Bishop [continuing]. Tell the future.
    Mr. Khanna [continuing]. That three of you are so afraid of 
criticizing Donald Trump that even though you do not mention 
tariffs in any of your testimonies, none of you are willing to 
say that this policy is totally backfiring.
    Mr. Bishop. I just do not want to try to predict the near 
future. I am not a mind reader. I do not know what is going on 
in the minds of the counterparties in other countries, and I 
think this is an inappropriate place to be asked.
    Mr. Khanna. Inappropriate to ask you about tariff policy in 
a manufacturing hearing, when that is the President's policy? 
Anyway, my time has expired.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Donalds from 
Florida, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Donalds. Thank you, Chairman. I think I am in Committee 
at the opportune time. Look, this is a great hearing about 
bringing manufacturing stock back to the United States. At the 
end of World War II, about 40 percent of the world's 
manufacturing capacity was here in America. Today, depending on 
who you ask, maybe around 15 percent, maybe lower, maybe a 
little bit higher.
    I want to ask all three of the witnesses--actually, I will 
ask you too, Mr. Hersh--what has actually been the No. 1 driver 
for a lack of manufacturing capacity in the United States since 
World War II? Mr. Power.
    Mr. Power. Thank you for the question, sir. In my mind it 
is specific CCP policies that have artificially subsidized, 
well past the cost of good jobs and competitive labor in 
America, where if you will remember there was a large language 
model like Deep Seek that got released by China, and they are 
charging one-hundredth of a use case versus OpenAI. And they 
are doing that to draw the consumer into using that product 
more and more and more, which obviously then captures data.
    It is the same sort of industrial policy that has been 
going on for the last 40 years, where we could buy a block of 
raw material in the United States, of aluminum, and it will be 
twice as expensive as the fully landed cost, including 
shipping, of that same component from China. And it is not 
possible for them to be so cheap and competitive, apart from 
the slave labor conditions, because they aggressively subsidize 
energy, raw materials, and kind of reverse tariffs, where if I 
sell something to you from China to the U.S. I get a subsidy 
back from the CCP.
    It is a strategic policy that has pulled the manufacturing 
out of the United States for the last 40 years, and it has been 
done very intentionally. So, it is artificial, anti-competitive 
subsidies that have pulled that cost base out of the United 
States, and therefore destroyed millions and millions of 
American jobs, is my opinion on the one core reason.
    Mr. Donalds. Mr. Czinger, do you choose to add or bring 
your own knowledge?
    Mr. Czinger. Yes, I will add something briefly, which is if 
you look at 2000, China had a 7 percent global manufacturing 
market share, in 2000. That was a brief 25 years ago. With WTO, 
I would say two things. Going to what Mr. Powers said, we did 
not enforce any of these violations by China after we gave them 
most favored nation status, and obviously they understand that 
national security is directly connected, and being a world 
power is directly connected to global manufacturing market 
share, and they went about using a set of policies to capture 
that.
    At the same time, I would say driven primarily by some of 
our large technology companies, we started to outsource 
manufacturing to companies like Foxconn. So, if you look at the 
actual kind of Industry 4.0 scale-up of automated CNC 
machining, computer numerically controlled machining, between, 
I would say, between 2006 and 2016, you saw Apple pour $100 
billion plus into Foxconn, a China-based contract manufacturing 
company, and they went from a couple hundred CNC machines to 
150,000 automated, lights out, by 2016.
    Those two things, allowing people to cheat and undermine 
you from a national strategy, global strategy standpoint, and 
then having our process IP relating to manufacturing from our 
most advanced companies offshored to contract manufacturers and 
building that contract manufacturing industry around Foxconn 
and other contract manufacturers, that is what drove it.
    Mr. Donalds. Thank you, Mr. Czinger. Mr. Bishop.
    Mr. Bishop. I would just echo what both of my colleagues 
here have said. I mean, especially if you drill into the supply 
chains that go into the DoD right now and the massive 
permissive use of waivers; I mean, there are already plenty of 
rules in place that would, in theory, disallow everything from 
electronic components to just basic machine parts that go into 
all the crucial material and devices that our warfighters use. 
And the reality is just the massive, rampant use of waivers has 
been a huge problem, and when you actually go and drill down 
into that supply chain you are finding not only direct links to 
China, which are the easy ones to find, but this huge web of 
shell companies and shell relationships between shell companies 
that effectively allow China to have, I mean, first of all, a 
huge supply chain risk directly in the DoD and anywhere 
wherever we want to project power.
    Mr. Donalds. Gentlemen, I am sorry. Mr. Hersh, I am sorry. 
Five minutes goes fast in this town. I appreciate that. I think 
it is important for the Committee to recognize that while the 
goal overall is to bring manufacturing back to the United 
States in as much of a capacity as we can, either onshore or 
nearshore, one thing is crystal clear: we have not been minding 
the store in the United States when it comes to trade policy 
writ large, especially when it comes to enforcement of trade 
policy.
    And with that I yield back.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Min, from 
California, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Min. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I want to thank you for 
bringing this hearing forward. I also share the panelists' 
concerns around China and the threat they pose to our economy. 
I also share the desire of everyone speaking today to bring 
back manufacturing to the United States. And I represent a 
district that does not have a lot of manufacturing. But I 
wanted to start--and obviously it is important for our 
economy--I wanted to start here by just following up on the 
comments of Mr. Khanna. I note that all of you up there on the 
Republican side said you are not economists. I wanted to give 
Dr. Hersh, an economist, a chance to weigh in, as well, to 
following up on Mr. Khanna's questions.
    Mr. Hersh. Yes. I guess I am the only one up here who 
supports tariffs, in theory. When a tariff is targeted and 
strategic it can be an effective tool for supporting industrial 
development. But what we are seeing under President Trump's 
policy is the opposite of that. It is broad based. It is 
indiscriminate. It is non-strategic. It is going to be a 
disaster.
    Mr. Min. Yes, so I guess what you are saying, if I can 
summarize, is that tariffs can be a tool to address some of the 
strategic and uncompetitive behavior we are seeing out of 
places like China, but not when they are applied in such a 
blanket and haphazard way as we are seeing right now.
    Mr. Hersh. Absolutely, and we have seen that just in the 
past week or so with a determination on shipbuilding, on solar 
panels. We saw President Biden invoke a 100 percent tariff on 
Chinese electric vehicles. These are all things that will 
contribute to rebuilding manufacturing, including the steel and 
aluminum tariffs of Mr. President, of Mr. Trump, which helps 
keep that smelter which Chair Burlison referenced, online for 
much longer than it could have been.
    Mr. Min. So, I want to follow up by nothing that the view 
that you expressed now is shared by many others. In fact, I 
would say it is a consensus view among economists. And I know 
the other three are not economists. You are very careful to say 
you are not economists and have no views on the strategic 
effectiveness of these tariffs.
    But I just want to quote Jerome Powell, who said a few 
weeks back that the Trump tariffs are likely to cause, quote, 
``higher inflation and slower growth.'' Janet Yellen, former 
Secretary of the Treasury, described Trump's tariffs as, quote, 
``the worst self-inflicted wound that I have ever seen an 
Administration impose on a well-functioning company.''
    I also want to bring it back to a company in my district 
that does do some manufacturing. They do electronics 
manufacturing. And one of the things that I did not hear any of 
you talk about is the way that the global supply chain is 
constructed these days, that a lot the manufacturing that takes 
place in the United States is dependent on parts and 
improvements made cross-border. The gentleman I am describing 
here, who spoke at a roundtable we had, talked about how his 
goods are typically adjusted or improved in Mexico, maybe in 
Singapore. They come back to the United States. They cross the 
border many times. Each time they are potentially subject to a 
tariff, and the aggregate of that is going to have huge 
impacts. He described this as something that is an existential 
threat to his business, the tariffs that Trump has proposed.
    Mr. Hersh, do you have any comment on that?
    Mr. Hersh. Yes. So, nothing is 100 percent made in America. 
Across the U.S. manufacturing, about 45 percent of the value 
added comes from imported content. We cannot just rip that out 
at the roots. We have to have a strategic approach to gradually 
replace that without disrupting the businesses that are already 
operating. And when we put 145 percent tariff on China without 
that strategic approach in place then foreign competitors in 
manufacturing can access all those intermediary inputs without 
paying a tariff, that is putting U.S. manufacturers at a 
disadvantage.
    Mr. Min. I will just close by noting that I was just in a 
congressional delegation a couple of weeks back to Korea, and 
we met with a number of the chaebol out there--Hyundai, LG, 
Hanwha. A number of them have actually committed hundreds of 
billions of dollars to manufacturing in the United States, 
following Trump, one, to try to build out manufacturing 
capacity here in the United States, but also in response to 
clear incentives. We talk about a stick-and-carrot approach. I 
think we can characterize Trump's tariffs as a big, massive 
stick that is going to club every economy in the world. We had 
the carrots approach from the Biden Administration with things 
like the Clean Energy Tax Credits to incentivize solar, EVs, et 
cetera, the CHIPS Act, which is starting to bring 
semiconductors back.
    And I will just tell you and share with you that these 
companies were very concerned about the tariffs policies but 
also very concerned that the Trump Administration would pull 
back on some of these tax incentives and other incentives that 
actually made manufacturing pencil out in the United States.
    What are your views, and I will ask this quickly to the 
panel: Mr. Power, Mr. Czinger, Mr. Bishop, Mr. Hersh, on these 
programs that actually seem to bring manufacturing back to the 
United States?
    Mr. Power. Whether it is a carrot or a stick policy or 
regulations that make easier to produce Americans jobs, I 
support both sides, whether it is the carrot or the stick.
    Mr. Min. You support keeping those programs in place.
    Mr. Power. Which programs? Sorry.
    Mr. Min. The Clean Energy Tax Credits, the CHIPS Act, some 
of the IRA incentives that have seemed to bring manufacturing 
back.
    Mr. Power. Yes, CHIPS Act was a great bipartisan 
legislation that was designed to bring massive semiconductor, 
which is such a critical piece of the supply chain.
    Mr. Min. Thank you. I think I am out of time, so Mr. 
Czinger.
    Mr. Czinger. I would agree with the comment on the CHIPS 
Act.
    Mr. Min. What about the Clean Energy Tax Credits?
    Mr. Czinger. I would have to look at them in more depth to 
be able to give you a reasonable answer.
    Mr. Min. Mr. Bishop.
    Mr. Bishop. I support all of the above. We are trying to 
incentivize more jobs here and more innovation.
    Mr. Min. Thank you for that answer. Mr. Hersh?
    Mr. Hersh. Pulling back on these policies now risks 
stranding hundreds of billions of dollars in investments and 
jobs. And I will say my co-panelists have talked about the 
issue of energy costs. Just in the past 3 months, $8 billion of 
new energy projects, supporting 8,000 jobs, have been canceled.
    Mr. Min. Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Higgins, from 
Louisiana, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Higgins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Bishop, from your 
perspective what happens to the sovereignty of a nation when it 
loses its industrial base?
    Mr. Bishop. Well, that is a softball question, I feel like, 
and I appreciate it.
    Mr. Higgins. It is a setup for a hard one.
    Mr. Bishop. I imagine. No, and I am slightly joking because 
you would think it would be an obvious answer, but it seems 
like over many decades no one has taken this as a softball 
question, has either not taken it seriously or has come to the 
wrong conclusion.
    Mr. Higgins. So, clearly you concur that the sovereignty of 
a powerful nation will gradually disintegrate with the gradual 
loss of its industrial base.
    Mr. Bishop. You cannot have one without the other.
    Mr. Higgins. You cannot have one without the other. There 
you go. So, the loss of American industrial base, largely to 
China--let us just talk about China--would you concur that 
there has been some perceived price advantage for products on 
the shelves, that this has been a foundational like driving 
factor, setting aside the details, basically, people want more 
stuff and cheaper stuff, right?
    Mr. Bishop. That has certainly been the driving narrative.
    Mr. Higgins. Clearly. So, the price advantage, the price 
advantage from goods manufactured in China, transported across 
the ocean to America, ends up on American shelves, that price 
advantage. In some way, is that price advantage the result of 
some combination of subsidized endeavors from communists, child 
labor, and slave labor?
    Mr. Bishop. All of the above.
    Mr. Higgins. All of the above. So, there you go America. I 
want you to think about this, please, as a child of God, as a 
compassionate human being. Do you really want a cheaper product 
on the shelf that has been subsidized by communists and 
produced with child labor and slave labor? This is what the 
Trump Administration and some conservatives in Congress are 
pushing back against. We seek to establish the truth, that 
cheap products, produced in abhorrent conditions, on foreign 
soil, subsidized by communism, and produced by child labor and 
slave labor, not only should they not be available for a 
cheaper price on our shelf, they should not be available at all 
on American shelves, in the opinion of some.
    So, we not only support the aggressive effort of our 
executive branch to push back against this worldwide, but 
particularly with China, we not only support it, we demand it. 
And some of us, I am 63 years old. I have watched our 
industrial base disintegrate in my lifetime. And what we hope--
and I am going to ask you, Mr. Bishop, to address what this 
means for the next generation. I am prayerful that we can fix 
this thing in this Congress, at least change the trajectory of 
trade imbalance by insisting upon core principle trade deals 
with nations like China. And we have to be aggressive about it 
for the coming generation.
    Mr. Bishop, how would you see, if we fix this thing, what 
happens for the next generation of Americans, if we restore the 
industrial base of our sovereign nation?
    Mr. Bishop. It is a golden era. I mean, you look at where 
the cities where we used to produce things, St. Louis, 
Cleveland, Pittsburgh; I mean, these were some of the richest 
cities not just in the country but in the entire world. We 
literally called it a ``Gilded Era.'' And what has happened 
over the last century, and has certainly accelerated over the 
last two decades, is something that is reversible, but we have 
to get very, very serious about it.
    Mr. Higgins. Do you believe a new ``Golden Era,'' that has 
been described, is achievable, good sir, if we make the 
necessary corrections now?
    Mr. Bishop. We still have time, but in my opinion we have 
to get really serious right now.
    Mr. Higgins. Well, Mr. Chairman, we are really serious 
right now. Thank you for convening this hearing, and I yield.
    Mr. Burlison. The gentleman yields. I submit for the record 
a document from the National Association of Manufacturers, 
giving recommendations for how to improve manufacturing in the 
United States.
    Without objection, so ruled.
    Mr. Burlison. And I now recognize Mr. Frost for his closing 
statement.
    Mr. Frost. Well, thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, and thank 
you to the witnesses again, for coming to share your expertise 
on a very important subject, ensuring that we continue the 
manufacturing boom we saw under the Biden Administration, into 
the future. Like I said, this is about, of course, the quantity 
of jobs but also the quality of these jobs.
    But I also have to bring up something that one of my 
colleagues, Representative Khanna, had brought up, and it has 
to do with the tariffs policy. And while advanced manufacturing 
creates job, that number of jobs will pale in comparison to the 
negative impact of Trump's tariffs. Tariffs are a tax on all 
consumers. They put the heaviest burden of that tax on middle-
and working-class Americans. One of the witnesses is shaking 
his head no, but we just went through this, and you all 
conceded that you know nothing about tariffs and have nothing 
to say about it.
    Tariffs will result in greater unemployment, as well. I 
have three unanimous consent requests. The first one is an 
article from CNBC from April 7, 2025, entitled, ``This Is a 
Trump Recession, CEO Says, With Tariff Price Increases, Job 
Losses Coming.''
    Mr. Burlison. Without objection.
    Mr. Frost. The other one is an article from The 
Independent, April 22, 2025, entitled, ``Trump Tariffs Driving 
Thousands of Layoffs at U.S. Manufacturing Plants.''
    Mr. Burlison. Without objection.
    Mr. Frost. The third one is a report from the Center for 
American Progress from April 10, entitled, ``Trump Tariffs 
Pause Doesn't Pause Economic Pain, Will Cost Families $4,600 a 
Year.''
    Mr. Burlison. Without objection.
    Mr. Frost. This is important. I appreciate the nuances in a 
lot of the ideas we heard from all of our panelists that were 
brought up today. But if you were to ask the President what he 
is doing to bring back U.S. manufacturing, he would tell you to 
look at his tariff policy. And so, it being brought up here I 
think was completely germane to the subject at hand, and 
hopefully next time we can dive into that, as well.
    Thank you so much, and I yield back to the Chair.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you. Now, in my closing statement, 
again, thank you witnesses for coming today. Today's testimony 
has made one thing clear to me, something that I did not have 
before, which is hope. Mr. Power, Mr. Czinger, and Mr. Bishop, 
the efforts that you guys are working on gives me a level of 
hope.
    U.S. manufacturers stand ready to expand production here in 
the U.S., hire American workers, and bring critical 
manufacturing capabilities back onshore. Financial backers of 
manufacturing, moreover, are not waiting for a miracle. They 
have been waiting for a signal, and now they have it, from 
President Trump, from Congress, and from the American people, 
that the U.S. is serious about rebuilding our once great 
manufacturing prowess. Americans want to produce here in 
America. They are willing to buy products made here. The demand 
is not just patriotic. It is economic, strategic, and it is 
cultural. It is about security, self-reliance, and yes, 
national pride.
    Reviving American industry is not just an economic goal. It 
is a national imperative. Industrial strength built this 
country. It won our wars. It fueled our prosperity and lifted 
generations out of poverty and into the middle class. And we 
can do it again.
    American factories can roar again. Let us seize this moment 
not just to restore what was lost but to build something even 
greater. Let us make American manufacturing not just a memory 
of the past but the backbone of our future. Reindustrializing 
will make America great again, and we should all strive to help 
make that happen.
    Again, thank you for your time today, and with that, all 
Members will have 5 legislative days within which to submit 
materials and to submit additional written questions for the 
witnesses, which will be forwarded to the witnesses for their 
responses.
    And if there is no further business, without objection the 
Subcommittee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:24 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

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