[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



MISSED MILESTONES: EVALUATING THE LAST FOUR YEARS IN THE EAP REGION AND 
              UNSEIZED OPPORTUNITIES UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                 SUBCOMMITTEE ON EAST ASIA AND PACIFIC

                                 OF THE

                      COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION


                               __________


                           February 25, 2025

                               __________


                            Serial No. 119-2

                               __________


        Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs





                 [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]





Available: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/, http://docs.house.gov, 
                       or http://www.govinfo.gov

                               ______
                                 

                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

60-092 PDF                WASHINGTON : 2025












                      COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS

                     BRIAN MAST, Florida, Chairman

MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas             GREGORY MEEKS, New York, Ranking 
CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey         Member
JOE WILSON, South Carolina           BRAD SHERMAN, California
SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania            GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
DARRELL ISSA, California             WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts
TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee              AMI BERA, California
MARK GREEN, Tennessee                JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas
ANDY BARR, Kentucky                  DINA TITUS, Nevada
RONNY JACKSON, Texas                 TED LIEU, California
YOUNG KIM, California                SARA JACOBS, California
MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR, Florida        SHEILA CHERFILUS-McCORMICK, 
BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan                  Florida
AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       GREG STANTON, Arizona
    American Samoa                   JARED MOSKOWITZ, Florida
WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio                JONATHAN JACKSON, Illinois
JIM BAIRD, Indiana                   SYDNEY KAMLAGER-DOVE, California
THOMAS KEAN, JR, New Jersey          JIM COSTA, California
MICHAEL LAWLER, New York             GABE AMO, Rhode Island
CORY MILLS, Florida                  KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
KEITH SELF, Texas                    PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington
RYAN ZINKE, Montana                  GEORGE LATIMER, New York
JAMES MOYLAN, Guam                   JOHNNY OLSZEWSKI, Maryland
ANNA PAULINA LUNA, Florida           JULIE JOHNSON, Texas
JEFFERSON SHREVE, Indiana            SARAH MCBRIDE, Delaware
SHERI BIGGS, South Carolina
MICHAEL BAUMGARTNER, Washington
RYAN MACKENZIE, Pennsylvania

              James Langenderfer, Majority Staff Director

                 Sajit Gandhi, Minority Staff Director

                                 ------                                

                 SUBCOMMITTEE ON EAST ASIA AND PACIFIC

                   YOUNG KIM, California, Chairwoman

MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas             AMI BERA, California,Ranking 
ANDY BARR, Kentucky                      Member
AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       BRAD SHERMAN, California
    American Samoa                   JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas
RYAN ZINKE, Montana                  JARED MOSKOWITZ, Florida
JAMES MOYLAN, Guam                   GABE AMO, Rhode Island
SHERI BIGGS, South Carolina          JOHNNY OLSZEWSKI, Maryland
RYAN MACKENZIE, Pennsylvania

                 Tom Hill, Subcommittee Staff Director











                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                            REPRESENTATIVES

                                                                   Page
Opening Statement of Chairwoman Young Kim........................     1
Opening Statement of Ranking Member Ami Bera.....................     3

                               WITNESSES

Statement of Zack Cooper, Senior Fellow, American Enterprise 
  Institute......................................................     5
  Prepared Statement.............................................     7
Statement of Craig Singleton, China Program Senior Director and 
  Senior Fellow, Foundation For Defense of Democracies...........    15
  Prepared Statement.............................................    17
Statement of Richard Fontaine, Chief Executive Officer, Center 
  for a New American Security....................................    35
  Prepared Statement.............................................    37

                                APPENDIX

Hearing Notice...................................................    66
Hearing Minutes..................................................    68
Hearing Attendance...............................................    69









 
MISSED MILESTONES: EVALUATING THE LAST FOUR YEARS IN THE EAP REGION AND 
              UNSEIZED OPPORTUNITIES UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP

                              ----------                              


                       Tuesday, February 25, 2025

                  House of Representatives,
             Subcommittee on East Asia and Pacific,
                              Committee on Foreign Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:16 p.m., in 
room 2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Young Kim (chair 
of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Mrs. Kim. The Committee on Foreign Affairs will come to 
order.
    The purpose of this hearing is to evaluate the last 4 years 
of the Biden administration's policy toward East Asia and the 
Pacific, address its successes and failures, and identify 
opportunities for the Trump administration to strengthen our 
engagement in the region. So let me now recognize myself for an 
opening statement.

           OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG KIM

    Again, welcome to East Asia and the Pacific Subcommittee's 
hearing entitled ``Missed Milestones: Evaluating the Last Four 
Years in the EAP Region and Unseized Opportunities Under 
President Trump.''
    As we convene for the first hearing of the 119th Congress, 
our subcommittee must reflect on the past 4 years under the 
Biden-Harris administration.
    First, we must ask the tough questions that will help us 
chart the course forward and ensure that we address the 
region's challenges head on including where do we go wrong on 
China policy?
    Why have we failed to enact punitive measures against the 
Chinese Communist Party when it was clearly warranted? Do we 
effectively leverage our allies and partnership to raise 
greater awareness regarding regional issues?
    Have we successfully deterred China and North Korea from 
advancing their dangerous agendas? Have our economic engagement 
goals been aligned with the demands and needs of our partners?
    While the Biden-Harris administration's strategy toward 
China has been shortsighted in many ways one thing has remained 
consistent across administrations. To engage effectively in the 
region we must show up and work with our allies and partners.
    Take, for example, the U.S. relationship with South Korea 
and Japan. These two nations have put aside their longstanding 
and unresolved historical disputes to tackle shared regional 
threats including Kim Jong Un's nuclear ambitions and Xi 
Jinping's military and economic coercion.
    This is a perfect illustration of how collaboration, 
despite differences, is not only possible but necessary, and 
while progress has been made this administration has tremendous 
opportunity to strengthen trilateral ties.
    No matter the changes in domestic policies, our engagement 
with South Korea and Japan as well as with Quad and ASEAN 
partners must remain steadfast.
    The threats posed by the CCP and North Korean regime are 
not going away. Neither should our commitment to these vital 
alliances.
    Second, we cannot allow the global economy to yield to the 
CCP standards nor can we lose the confidence of our allies and 
partners in American economic strength.
    In my travels across the East Asia and the Pacific region 
the message was clear and consistent that the United States is 
the partner of choice, but without substantial economic 
incentives our allies and friends are being forced into deeper 
trade dependency on China and to accept Beijing's artificially 
cheap investment that always comes with a price.
    The previous administration's Indo-Pacific Economic 
Framework has the potential to provide a path forward to 
economically engage with these nations.
    Our subcommittee now has jurisdiction over the Development 
Finance Corporations and we will use every tool at our disposal 
to ensure the U.S. remains an active and committed economic 
partner in the EAP region.
    Third, we must continue our work on human rights. We cannot 
ignore the ongoing human rights abuses in Xinjiang where Xi 
Jinping directs the imprisonment of Uyghur Muslims and Tibetans 
to erase their culture and identity.
    The CCP's transnational repression tactics have also 
spilled across borders with the regime's United Front Work 
Department harassing and intimidating pro-democracy activists 
right here on the U.S. soil.
    Meanwhile, Kim Jong Un continues to steal from his own 
people, subjecting them to torture, forced labor, and conduct 
unlawful and extrajudicial killings. Across Southeast Asia 
independent journalists and civilians face charges simply for 
exercising their right of free press and assembly.
    America is safer and more prosperous when we put U.S. 
priorities first. Our allies and partners are better off when 
we show up for good.
    With that, I'm proud to have these witnesses before us 
today. Their insights will help us shape policies that will 
strengthen our position in the East Asia and the Pacific region 
and advance our national interest. Thank you.
    Let me now recognize the Ranking Member, the gentleman from 
California Mr. Ami Bera for your opening statement.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER AMI BERA

    Mr. Bera. Thank you, Chairwoman Kim.
    We have been partners in this region for quite a while. We 
have had a chance to travel together, and I agree with your 
opening statements.
    You know, there's progress that's been made but, obviously, 
there's progress that we can make going forward that really 
shouldn't be a partisan issue.
    Certainly within Congress many of these issues are 
nonpartisan. We can look at the Quad coalition in the first 
Trump administration. They set some of those baselines.
    The Biden administration elevated to the leaders level very 
early in this administration right after the swearing in. You 
had a ministerial and I think that's something that we can 
build on.
    That partnership between the United States, Japan, 
Australia, India is vitally important to not just the 
geopolitical security for the region but also from an economic 
perspective, you know, bringing India into the fold.
    We have had the chance to travel to Japan and Korea 
multiple times and, you know, the trilateral relationship is in 
a much better place than it was, four or 8 years ago.
    We have got to continue to keep that intact regardless of 
politics in the region. Certainly, the bilateral Japan-Korea 
relationship is in a strong place and we have got to build off 
of that and, you know, we have a responsibility as Members of 
Congress to continue that but also support the administration 
in maintaining a strong trilateral.
    We look at--in 2019 when I traveled to the Philippines that 
relationship was in a very bad place. Philippines was headed in 
the direction of China.
    Now, under the Marcos administration, you know, getting the 
Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement in place I think there's 
a real opportunity with the Trump administration again to build 
on that.
    The Philippines are right back in our fold to have regular 
rotations and perhaps return to permanent basing and so forth 
there. I think that's a nonpartisan issue. That's something we 
can work on.
    I'm just returning from Australia, New Zealand and the 
region and AUKUS. Pillar one is going very well. You know, 
looking at the words of Secretary Hegseth and others.
    I think there's a strong foundation and support for AUKUS. 
Let's get pillar two going., again, this is a good deal for the 
United States. It not only establishes a presence, works with 
one of our Five Eye allies.
    The fact that Beijing is upset about AUKUS means we're 
probably doing the right thing so let's keep doing it. Let's 
build off of that., again, this will allow us to maintain naval 
superiority in the region at a time when we're watching very 
provocative actions around northern Australia--between 
Australia and New Zealand from the Chinese.
    We have got to send a strong message that that is not okay 
in the 21st century because that is how accidents happen. That 
is how wars get started. And, again, the behavior that we see 
around there or what we see in the South China Sea, and I know 
you've had a chance to see firsthand some of what's happening 
around in the Philippines.
    Again, we as the United States with our allies have to send 
a strong message that that's not okay.
    Now, if it had been up to me we would have passed TPP a 
long time ago. Obviously, we find ourselves in a very different 
place. One area where I didn't see as much progress with the 
Biden administration was around trade, even digital trade, and 
we have agreements that we can build off of.
    I think it is important for us to set the contours of what 
trade looks like. I don't think it's going to be joining CP-TPP 
but, you know, can we do digital trade?
    Can we get some progress here even in a bilateral way. I 
think that would be important and, again, I think we as Members 
of Congress on this subcommittee can work in that area.
    One area that we were a little bit late to the game but, 
you know, we did see the Biden administration reestablish 
embassies in the Solomon Islands, Tonga, Vanuatu.
    We saw important aid and development programs going there 
and it's important for us to continue to support those 
investments that are not big dollar items but when you talk 
about the people we are the partners of choice, the United 
States.
    But we have to be there. We have to show up because if we 
are not--you know, the PRC can show up with bags of cash and 
demonstrate influence in ways that we don't do business.
    So working with our allies in Australia, New Zealand. The 
Japanese are showing an increased interest in the region. Those 
are all things that are nonpartisan.
    Those are all things that I hope to be able to work with 
the Trump administration on and certainly with you, Madam 
Chairwoman. But I think we can work on legislation that keeps 
moving those relationships forward.
    With that, I'll yield back.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you, Ranking Member, and I love the tone of 
bipartisanship, especially when it comes to EAP--Pacific Island 
region--and I cannot emphasize enough how important it is for 
us to show up and engage with our EAP regions.
    Thank you for that. I look forward to continue to work with 
you on this committee and beyond.
    Other members of the committee are reminded that opening 
statements may be submitted for the record, and we are pleased 
to have a distinguished panel of witnesses before us today on 
this important topic.
    So let me introduce our distinguished panel: Mr. Zack 
Cooper, senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute; 
Craig Singleton, China program senior director and senior 
fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies; and 
Richard Fontaine, the chief executive officer at the Center for 
New American Security.
    The chair recognizes the importance of the issues before us 
and is grateful to have you speak with us, and look forward to 
hearing your testimoneys and, you know, answering our 
questions.
    Your full statements will be made part of the record and 
I'll ask each of you to keep your remarks or spoken remarks to 
5 minutes or under in order to allow time for member questions.
    I now recognize Mr. Cooper for your opening statement.


                    STATEMENT OF ZACK COOPER

    Mr. Cooper. Thank you, Chairwoman Kim, Ranking Member Bera, 
and distinguished members of the committee. It's an honor to be 
here today and I especially appreciate the bipartisan nature of 
your leadership on Asia issues.
    Despite changes in rhetoric, recent U.S. strategy in Asia 
has been remarkably consistent across administrations from both 
parties.
    In short, the United States has made progress with those 
countries that are most concerned about Chinese behavior. I 
would focus here on Japan, the Philippines, India, Australia, 
and South Korea, the same countries that both of you mentioned 
in your opening remarks.
    But we have struggled elsewhere in the region, particularly 
with countries across most of Southeast Asia and they've been 
disappointed by uneven U.S. engagement and inconsistent 
economic visions.
    These structural constraints I think are likely to continue 
over the next few years and in my written testimony I assessed 
the lasting impact of five different Biden administration 
initiatives on Asia. The first was continued cooperation with 
the Quad, the second, AUKUS security partnership, the third was 
the Indo-Pacific Economic Framework. The fourth was deepening 
of the alliance with the Philippines, and, last, U.S.-Japan-
South Korea trilateral cooperation.
    I think we can say that the Biden administration made real 
progress in many of these areas but that we do have to rethink 
our approach to the region because much of the rest of the 
region is untouched by the efforts that we have made over the 
last decade or so.
    With these lessons in mind I want to propose what I think 
are potentially five big ideas that the Trump administration 
and the Congress could take up over the next few years.
    So the first is establishment of an allied defense arsenal 
effort, a major new defense industry partnership with allies 
taking the lead on military co-development and co-production of 
precision munitions and autonomous systems.
    The second I talk about in my written testimony is creation 
of an allied energy initiative to boost U.S. energy production 
and exports to allies in Asia who are desperate for more 
reliable sources of oil and natural gas.
    The third is formation of what I would call a Taiwan 
contact group alongside U.S. allies to provide Taiwan with the 
capabilities needed to bolster its military defenses and 
societal resilience in advance of a conflict.
    The fourth proposal is a trade deal with the Philippines to 
maintain our recent alliance momentum and avoid China being 
able to use its economic influence with Manila to undermine an 
absolutely critical strategic relationship for the United 
States.
    The fifth proposal I would put on the table is that the 
Trump administration should make a big bet on Indonesia akin to 
its efforts with India. The reason is that Indonesia, as many 
of you know well, is a rising giant.
    It could act as a counterweight in Southeast Asia against 
China's regional influence, and I think it warrants much more 
attention from American policymakers.
    So those are five opportunities I think the Trump 
administration has. I want to recently speak--quickly speak 
about five risks that I think are serious as well.
    First, Washington will need to avoid ceding a sphere of 
influence to China by better coordinating with its allies and 
partners while finding ways to stay engaged on the principles 
and priorities that matter to countries in Asia.
    Second, threats to withdrawal of support from Taiwan could 
further undermine the support of the Taiwanese public and their 
confidence in the United States, and that is particularly true, 
in my view, if it's coupled with a U.S. drawdown from parts of 
Europe.
    Third, the danger of South Korean nuclear proliferation is 
real and I think it is growing. It is accelerated by concerns 
about the risk of U.S.-South Korea alliance decoupling and that 
will require new engagement from policymakers here in 
Washington.
    Fourth, as you know, AUKUS remains a bold and important 
idea but I think we should be assessing the role that large 
undersea unmanned vehicles can play in bridging some of the 
capability gaps that are arising as we think about AUKUS over 
the next couple of decades.
    Fifth, American policymakers will have to reconsider their 
approach to Southeast Asia, particularly on trade and 
development, lest China continue to make significant progress 
across the region.
    So, in conclusion, the United States remains vital to 
security and prosperity across the Indo-Pacific. I thank this 
committee for its remarkable bipartisan leadership on these 
issues over many years and I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Cooper follows:]

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you, Mr. Cooper.
    Let me now recognize Mr. Singleton for your testimony.

                  STATEMENT OF CRAIG SINGLETON

    Mr. Singleton. Thank you, Chairwoman Kim, Ranking Member 
Bera, and members of the distinguished subcommittee. Thanks for 
inviting me today.
    I'm pleased to offer policy insights from the Foundation 
for Defense of Democracies, a nonpartisan research institute 
where I serve as a senior fellow.
    Over the last 4 years the Biden administration sought to 
stabilize relations with Beijing through sustained diplomatic 
dialog and relatively restrained responses to myriad Chinese 
provocations.
    On paper, this approach aims to avoid a bilateral 
breakdown. In practice, however, it did amount to diplomacy 
without much deterrence, emboldening Chinese Communist Party 
Chairman Xi Jinping to test our resolve at nearly every turn.
    Indeed, rather than reducing tensions, these well-
intentioned diplomatic overtures paradoxically fueled Xi's 
worst impulses, enabling Beijing to expand its surveillance, 
ramp up its maritime assertiveness, and deepen its ties to 
other authoritarian regimes at next to no cost.
    During Biden's tenure Chinese spy balloons entered U.S. 
airspace with little consequence, while hacking campaigns Salt, 
Volt, and Flax Typhoon targeted senior American officials and 
sensitive networks with barely a public rebuke.
    Even as Beijing dramatically intensified its incursions 
around Taiwan and in the South China Sea, Washington's focus 
remained on rapid de-escalation. If left unchecked, this 
dynamic risks encouraging Chinese overreach, raising the 
specter of miscalculation or worse, war.
    Today's predicament evokes lessons from the late stages of 
the cold war when Washington's misguided embrace of so-called 
peaceful coexistence inadvertently prolonged the Soviet 
system's survival, treating it as an immutable juggernaut 
rather than one vulnerable to sustained external and internal 
pressure.
    By minimizing accountability for Chinese espionage, 
coercion, and violations of international norms we risk 
reinforcing Beijing's conviction that its revanchist ambitions 
need not be curbed.
    A new Trump administration and the 119th Congress can move 
beyond mere coexistence with China, if for no other reason that 
the U.S. and China embody fundamentally incompatible systems 
and ideologies.
    Simply put, today's contest cannot end in stalemate. The 
United States must ensure its model prevails. Moving beyond 
mere coexistence, a bold yet realistic aim, does not require an 
explicit bid for regime change.
    Rather, Washington should push Beijing onto an 
unsustainable path where credible deterrence, targeted economic 
pressure, and principled diplomacy expose the structural flaws 
of Xi's Marxist-Leninist framework.
    By holding out the prospect of genuine concessions on 
issues like trade we can force Beijing to confront the 
spiraling costs of continued hostility, potentially hastening 
the CCP's own unraveling if it refuses to alter course.
    Ultimately, time is on our side if we choose to make it so. 
Chief among the measures Congress should consider are robust 
outbound investment screening and bans accompanied with 
enhanced export controls and targeted sanctions to deny Xi 
access to both U.S. capital markets and critical technologies 
for military-civil fusion.
    Credible proactive threats of punitive action if China 
crosses red lines over Taiwan or in the South China Sea 
reinforce that brinkmanship will be met with real enforcement.
    Meanwhile, Washington must support beleaguered democracies 
on the front lines of Chinese coercion. HFAC can champion 
streamlined foreign military sales and leveraged Presidential 
drawdown authorities for Taiwan, ensuring swift delivery of 
defensive systems and asymmetric capabilities without 
bureaucratic delay.
    A leaner, meaner, more focused foreign assistance regime 
centered around strategic infrastructure, digital governance, 
and anti-corruption programming would also deny China a 
foothold in critical ports, curb risky 5G networks, and 
strengthen partners' resilience to Chinese coercion.
    By demonstrating that America remains both principled and 
reliable we fill aid gaps that Beijing might otherwise exploit.
    Finally, by insisting that allies, including Taiwan, invest 
more in their own security the U.S. can spread the financial 
load while preserving its leadership role.
    This flexible transactional approach aligns with the 
President's ``America first'' ethos. It rewards partners who 
step up while denying Beijing easy wins.
    Rather than striving for a fragile equilibrium in the Indo-
Pacific, Washington must create an overwhelming deterrent that 
renders any attempt at forcible reunification or broader 
regional domination prohibitively costly. No such deterrent 
exists today.
    By shifting from passive coexistence to purposeful 
competition on America's terms we can challenge the illusion of 
stability that has emboldened Beijing. This decisive posture 
rooted in assertive reprisal rather than reflexive de-
escalation may pave the way for a new era of enduring 
leadership in the Indo-Pacific and beyond.
    On behalf of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies I 
thank you again for inviting me to testify today.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Singleton follows:]

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    
    Mrs. Kim. I recognize Mr. Fontaine for your opening 
statement.

                 STATEMENT OF RICHARD FONTAINE

    Mr. Fontaine. Chairwoman Kim, Ranking Member Bera, 
distinguished members of the subcommittee and staff, thank you 
for having me here today.
    From the outset, the previous administration identified 
China as its top priority and the Indo-Pacific as the region 
most deserving of its greatest attention.
    It had a number of notable successes but it also left key 
opportunities unseized and so the Trump administration, along 
with Congress, can and should build on the foundation laid over 
the past 4 years.
    In the diplomatic sphere the Biden administration elevated 
the Quad to the leaders level and coordinated an ambitious 
effort to supply COVID-19 vaccines to Southeast Asia.
    It demonstrated greater American engagement with the 
Pacific Islands including a summit with leaders in Washington, 
new diplomatic outposts, and as Representative Bera said, 
renewing the Compacts of Free Association.
    President Biden hosted the ASEAN leaders at the White House 
as well, stepping ed up high-level diplomacy with what is 
perhaps the Indo-Pacific's most contested region. All these 
were positive diplomatic steps.
    The administration also made significant moves on military 
posture including winning base access for U.S. troops in the 
Philippines, and securing an access arrangement with Papua New 
Guinea.
    Of course, it formed AUKUS, the defense technology sharing 
agreement with Australia and the U.K., revised U.S. force 
posture in Japan, and agreed on Defense Industrial Base 
cooperation with India. Again, all positive signs.
    But for all that, the net deployment of U.S. military 
resources in Asia has been essentially flat for over a decade 
even as China has made increases in virtually every area. and 
so rRighting the military balance in the western Pacific and 
ensuring deterrence remain key challenges for the new 
administration.
    The Biden administration also refocused some of its 
economic efforts on the Indo-Pacific but away from trade 
agreements and toward defensive measures like export controls 
on semiconductors, outbound investment reviews, restricting 
Chinese electric vehicles, and so forth.
    Its one attempt at an affirmative trade policy was the 
Indo-Pacific Economic Framework agreement, IPEF, which the 
chairwoman mentioned.
    But this was a set of agreements that rather conspicuously 
lacked any market access in the United States and didn't need 
to be approved by Congress and so it was very limited in what 
it could actually put on the table in terms of what countries 
in the region are looking for most from the U.S. and the U.S. 
economy.
    This recent paucity of positive economic moves in Asia 
represents another opportunity, should the administration 
choose to seize it.
    So the Biden administration made some significant strides 
in the Indo-Pacific over the past 4 years even while, of 
course, it was dealing with acute crises in Europe and in the 
Middle East.
    But given China's increasing military strength, its 
diplomatic ambition, and its technological advances, there 
remains a long way to go. The Trump administration and Congress 
should pursue several opportunities.
    First, they should elevate regional diplomacy. The Trump 
administration's first meeting with the Quad foreign ministers 
took place on only, I believe, their second day in office. This 
is a good step and it's already been followed with extensive 
diplomacy with regional leaders.
    But there are questions, of course, that are swirling about 
the President's regional priorities, enthusiasm for tariffs, 
pursuit of positive ties with Russia, and more.
    So high-level and sustained Indo-Pacific diplomacy will be 
at a premium in all of the formats available, including the 
U.S., Japan, South Korea trilateral, the trilateral with Japan 
and the Philippines, the Quad, and, of course, Congress has an 
important role to play here with the CODELs and the visits both 
to Washington and other places.
    The new administration also should pursue a positive 
economic vision. I think there's wide agreement that the United 
States should continue to reduce its economic dependence on 
China in areas that incur national security risk.
    There's less agreement, but I think there should be, on the 
corresponding lesson here which is you trade less with China in 
sensitive areas and you trade more with your friends and 
allies, and there are is the possibility of sectoral agreements 
like digital trade or on critical minerals that would set 
rules, reduce dependencies on China, and signal renewed U.S. 
economic leadership.
    The United States on the military side can't arrest the 
eroding balance of power in the Indo-Pacific and meet our 
critical commitments elsewhere without a major increase in 
defense spending and at the same time moving some of our 
military resources from the Middle East and Europe to Asia, 
especially in light of the prospects for peace in 2025 in each 
of those two regions.
    Then, finally, it would be wise to avoid some unforced 
errors. The new administration, obviously, is moving quickly to 
differentiate itself from its predecessor including on Asia 
policy but shouldn't shoot itself in the foot by eliminating 
programs that have helped the U.S. bolster friends in the Indo-
Pacific and contest Chinese influence, whether that's foreign 
aid or some of the other arrangements that are currently under 
question.
    So by avoiding own goals, and by pursuing the many 
opportunities before it, the new administration and the U.S. 
Congress have a significant potential to bolster America's 
position in the world's most important region.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Fontaine follows:]

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you for your wonderful testimoneys. Your 
opening statements give us a lot of food for thought and much 
of which we agree on.
    We all talked about how it is important for U.S. to show up 
to the region to build a stronger relationship with our allies 
and partners.
    Also some of you also mentioned the--our ability to keep up 
with our defense capabilities so I want to start my questioning 
on that note.
    Allies like Korea and Japan they have taken steps to assist 
the U.S. Defense Industrial Base and Korea's Hanwha systems is 
acquiring Philly Shipyards to bring shipbuilding experience to 
America, and Japan has already committed a trillion dollars--$1 
trillion--I wish it was more--in investment to assist the U.S. 
with emerging technologies.
    Our partners are also looking to co-produce and co-develop 
with the United States so we need to ensure that these 
collaborations align with our security interests and industrial 
capacity without compromising our American innovation or 
competitiveness.
    So the first question--I think I want to--Mr. Singleton is 
not listening so let me wake you up.
    What steps can the Trump administration take to strengthen 
our Defense Industrial Base while also working with our allies 
and partners on national security priorities and technological 
and economic advancements?
    Sorry to put you on the spot.
    Mr. Singleton. Thank you. Wide awake.
    It's amazing that we are talking about enhancements to our 
Defense Industrial Base today because we're actually thinking 
about investments that are going to be really coming into play 
tomorrow. Time is the enemy here.
    I think this administration has real opportunities when 
we're thinking about incentivization and also deregulation, but 
where we are seeing gaps quite clearly are expanding mineral 
stockpiles that we will need for tomorrow to actually feed and 
drive these industries.
    We actually don't have a skilled talent workforce yet for 
these critical industries in the defense sector. So starting to 
think about actual concrete programs that we can put into place 
through legislation to buildup our tech talent workforce will 
be absolutely vital.
    I think--and Zack hit on this as well--trusted defense 
supply chains is probably the future and I think East Asia will 
play an anchor role in that structure.
    Co-development with India, for example, on fighter jets, 
Japan the Glide Phase Interceptor to go after hypersonic 
missiles. These are all new and amazing opportunities that I 
don't think we would have been talking about a few years ago.
    Ultimately, a lot of that will be advanced through 
memorandums of oral commitment, memorandums of understanding, 
and just simple, clear-eyed engagement throughout the region. I 
think there's no shortage of opportunity here as we think about 
these defense supply chains and it was actually Secretary 
Austin, I think, who really laid the groundwork for this last 
summer and this is an area where this administration can really 
proceed.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you.
    On the economic engagement, Mr. Cooper, our ASEAN partners 
continue to request market access, and we talked about that. 
IPEF is good. It's a good starting point.
    But, as you noted, we don't have market access there. So 
market access to the United States is what our ASEAN partners 
are asking. But trade appetite in Washington is severely 
limited.
    So in your testimony you mentioned that Trump 
administration is unlikely to embrace IPEF. So what alternative 
strategies can the administration pursue to maintain the U.S. 
economic influence in the region without ceding grounds to 
Beijing?
    Mr. Cooper. Thanks, Chairwoman Kim.
    I think the only answer then for the Trump team is to think 
about bilateral arrangements since that's very clearly their 
preference that are strategic in nature and absolutely critical 
to the United States.
    That's why, for me, focusing on the Philippines initially 
is probably the most critical factor. You know that, of course, 
we have got this Luzon economic corridor which we are trying to 
do with Manila, and if that doesn't go forward it will call 
into question our ability to use Philippine bases and other 
facilities in the event of a crisis or conflict.
    I think we're going to have to connect our economic 
interests with our strategic interests to make that logical 
chain clear for both this administration and, of course, for 
the Congress as well.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you.
    Mr. Fontaine, do you want to chime in on that? Since IPEF 
does not provide market access how can we incentivize more 
American companies--private sector engagements--in the region? 
I know we talked about that a little bit--China.
    Mr. Fontaine. Yes, I think it's worth pointing out that in 
the first Trump administration the administration did reach a 
digital trade deal with Japan and used the digital trade 
chapter from USMCA there, and also had kind of managed a mini 
deal on agriculture.
    So it is just not completely beyond the realm of 
imagination to think that over the next 4 years there are 
bilateral deals, particularly in sectoral areas, you know, that 
could be reached on digital trade, which and would be done 
bilaterally or multilaterally, which They would be more about 
setting the rules than even market access or some market 
access, deals things, again, on relatively noncontroversial 
areas like critical minerals and things like that.
    More ambitiously, you know, if the U.S. gets back in the 
business of, you know, free trade agreements, which admittedly 
is a little hard to think about right now, I mean, we could 
have an FTA with the Philippines.
    We could have an FTA with Taiwan. I mean, tThe centerpiece 
of, you know, the ill-fated TPP was essentially a U.S.-Japan 
free trade agreement. And so, you know, if we could politically 
get back to those areas the sky is kind of the limit for what 
would be possible on policy grounds.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you very, very much.
    Let me now recognize Ranking Member Bera for 5 minutes of 
questioning.
    Mr. Bera. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
    I'm always going to be the optimist. I think we can always 
increase our economic ties. But in the short term I think there 
are some things that we can build off of.
    Mr. Fontaine, you touched on the importance of critical 
minerals and, you know, some of the rare earths where we are 
overly reliant on a single source, in this case Beijing, and we 
know how they use economic coercion. We have seen a taste of 
it.
    But it could get worse if there is a real escalation in 
conflict. The Biden administration had put in the mineral 
security partnership.
    You know, wWe have engaged in conversations with our allies 
in Japan and Korea, and this is not an area where we're 
necessarily in competition because we all need these supplies. 
And I'd be curious, you know, from a congressional perspective 
and then, you know, working with the administration if we can 
work with our allies.
    Obviously, the Australians want to develop this industry. 
Maybe a little bit more expensive than China but, again, for 
our security concerns it's a way of, you know, working with 
Australians, Malaysia, Vietnam, other areas where we 
strategically could go into these areas if--you know, I think 
that's the right approach at this point is going in and 
developing these new markets and even going into Africa and 
working in some of these places and having a presence.
    Mr. Fontaine. Yes, I think that's exactly right and, of 
course, on the critical minerals you have to consider both the 
sourcing and then the processing and so you have to solve both 
of those. Otherwise, if you're dependent on China for one or 
the other then you haven't solved your problem.
    But that said, there are a number of countries in the Indo-
Pacific and around the world that both have sources and some 
which would be the places where processing takes place. So the 
U.S. should be in the business of reducing barriers to that 
kind of trade in critical minerals and potentially looking to 
our other tools of economic policy, you know, through the 
Development Finance Corporation or, you know, some of our aid 
programs and things like that in order to incentivize private 
sector activity in these places.
    So, again, I think the mantra should be, yes, trade less 
with China in areas of national security concern and but also 
trade more with our friends and allies in those very areas.
    Mr. Bera. Mr. Cooper, do you want to add?
    Mr. Cooper. I would just add very briefly, you know, this 
is an area where I think there are some countries in Southeast 
Asia that have tremendous capability to help us and help 
themselves, and Indonesia is sort of the most obvious of those.
    So I think the Minerals Security Partnership is the kind of 
thing that should be able to last through from the Biden 
administration to the Trump administration because as Craig was 
saying it picks up on a lot of critical items that they've been 
worried about for a long time, going back to the first Trump 
term.
    But I think we have got to figure out which partners we can 
work with in Southeast Asia or elsewhere in the region and for 
me Indonesia would be the logical first partner to think about.
    Mr. Bera. Right. Let me shift to the Pacific Islands.
    Large economic zone, big playing field, smaller 
populations. I know I've traveled extensively there. I know the 
chairwoman is traveling to the region as well.
    When I look at recent elections, you know, in the Solomons 
and within PNG, the public seems to still want to move toward 
the West and so forth.
    But I really am concerned when it comes time to form a 
government just Beijing's influence and, you know, we don't 
have to get into the details of it but things that we're not 
going to do--it's not how we do business.
    But you talked about corruption, Mr. Cooper. When it comes 
time to form governments, the governments are not necessarily 
moving in our direction and I think we have got to come up with 
some tools on how to counter that influence.
    You know, if you want to talk about that, Mr. Cooper, and 
then if the others want to add something.
    Mr. Cooper. Yes, Ranking Member, just a brief remark, which 
is, you know, I think we have had a number of wake-up calls and 
every time we say it's a wake-up call and then we don't really 
wake up--you know, first with Solomon Islands, then we were 
worried about Vanuatu--now it's Cook Islands.
    Every time we say we have woken up and then every time 
there's another Pacific Island that does a deal with China that 
we didn't see coming, I think the Trump team should get a lot 
of credit for in the first term putting a lot of effort into 
the Pacific Islands, right?
    I think we have to make sure that they maintain that focus 
now. There are a lot of distractions around the world and the 
Pacific isn't the easiest place to maintain focus and we 
haven't done that consistently over years.
    So I think we have got to use the Cook Islands situation 
now as another wake-up call to focus on.
    Mr. Bera. Yes. Having just been in Auckland last week, 
obviously, that's of concern. I mean, I think how we may 
approach it this Congress is working with Australia and New 
Zealand, and Japan is showing that increased--look, how do we 
share the burden? How do we--even the French? I mean, pulling 
the French in as well.
    I don't know, Mr. Fontaine, if, in the last few----
    Mr. Cooper. Well, you just made the point that I was going 
to make, which is that we have got, you know, friends in this 
enterprise.
    So we're not going to do what the Chinese do and engage in, 
you know, bribery and State capture and things like that. We're 
going to have a different model and different approach to 
engagement.
    That has to be sustained and it has to be a long-term 
effort and ultimately it's--we don't want to see China get a 
foothold, certainly, in security terms in these areas, which 
would constrain our own freedom of action and that of our 
friends and allies.
    So if you start from that point and then, look, what are 
the tools that we have available to be able to influence and, 
frankly, to help these countries with their own sovereignty so 
that they're not ultimately undermined by Chinese activity that 
is something that should appeal to these governments over time, 
and in that we can enlist friends like New Zealand and 
Australia.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you.
    Let me now go to the members' questioning session and I 
would like to first call upon Representative Moylan to ask your 
questions.
    Mr. Moylan. Thank you, Chairwoman Kim.
    I want to express my disapproval of President Biden's 
absence in the East Asia Summit during his tenure. The U.S. 
relationship with the Association of Southeast Asian Nation 
members is critical for the economic, political, and the 
defense of prosperity in the region.
    The President's participation in these diplomatic channels 
is essential to ensuring that the U.S. presence in Asia remains 
constructive, visible, and lasting.
    Partnerships such as the AUKUS alliance or the Quad 
organization have greatly enhanced the overall security of the 
Indo-Pacific. Despite their significance, the United States' 
over emphasis on defensive measures has alienated potential 
allies and support.
    The East Asia Summit and other ASEAN--sponsored discussions 
are opportunities for the U.S. to cooperate on issues like 
health care and trade and disaster response and even energy.
    Yet, the nonparticipation or just vocalizing the anti-
Chinese sentiment is a missed opportunity that the United 
States cannot afford.
    Unlike the previous administration, President Trump must 
approach the organization like ASEAN with the same passion as 
defense partnerships, and some have even cited President Xi 
Jinping and President Putin as examples of the absence to 
defend President Biden's nonattendance.
    But the United States can and must do better. For 
diplomatic efforts we must stop looking at PRC or Russia as an 
example and demonstrate that the United States will be a 
lasting ally.
    In the absence of our adversaries the United States can 
assert itself as a preferred partner in the Pacific. The United 
States has recently accomplished significant diplomatic 
achievements in the Indo-Pacific such as the U.S. alliance for 
international developments, disaster teams, or professional 
development programs in Cambodia.
    Nevertheless, the United States cannot rest on its 
diplomatic laurels and these relationships need demonstration 
of our commitment.
    So I implore the Trump administration to learn from 
President Biden's mistakes and I ask you, Mr. Singleton--you 
have vast experience and appreciate that, and what actions can 
the U.S. take to strengthen trust and cooperation with ASEAN 
nations, particularly those growing closer to China.
    Mr. Singleton. Thank you, sir.
    I mean, I think we mentioned it earlier but we have to show 
up. I think our greatest comparative advantage would be 
presence, persistence, and partnership and that's--the region 
isn't opaque. They make clear to us directly what they want 
from us and I think there are transactional opportunities that 
benefit both sides.
    I think talk of market access, talk of economic engagement, 
is the missing link today and most countries in the region are 
deeply concerned about their reliance on China for key critical 
supply chains.
    They're concerned about Chinese companies relocating into 
their markets, and those dependencies and the weaponized 
interdependence that comes with them is concerning.
    I think the biggest signal that the President can make, 
though, is by simply having consistent outreach to countries in 
the region--hosting them here, deepening people to people ties, 
showing up.
    President--Chinese leader Xi Jinping does it quite well. 
The Chinese operate a vast diplomatic presence across the 
region. I think we have a real opportunity here to actually 
show up on the ground and demonstrate what we're willing to 
bring to the table.
    Mr. Moylan. Thank you.
    And briefly, Mr. Fontaine, you spoke about the coordination 
the Biden administration accomplished with Pacific Island 
countries. In what areas should the Trump administration build 
off these initial success?
    Mr. Fontaine. There's are several. Well, one One is to, of 
course, sustain the diplomatic engagement produced by having 
established the embassies in Solomons and Vanuatu and Tonga. 
and, you know, tThe China-Solomons security agreement was, as 
my colleague said, a big wake-up call. But then we get 
additional wake-up calls after additional wake-up calls.
    And so to sustain sustaining the diplomatic engagement 
there is one aspect of all this. Then I come back just, you 
know, on to trade. I mean, these are very small economies in 
all of this but one of the great advantages the United States 
has its is the big economic market and ability to provide 
access to that economic market, particularly for countries for 
which who, you know, it's going to be almost a rounding error 
in terms of their economic relationship with us. This is 
another big advantage.
    And then, you know, again, working with these countries in 
combination together with Australia, New Zealand, Japan, and 
other bigger countries including from a little bit further 
outside in order to demonstrate a vision which is not the U.S. 
would like to dominate the region instead of China but, rather, 
this is about your own independence and sovereignty and ability 
to make your own sovereign decisions, that wWe want to support 
that as opposed to what China has on offer.
    Mr. Moylan. Thank you very much. Thank you to the panel.
    Madam Chair, thank you.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you.
    Let me now recognize Representative Sherman for your 5 
minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Sherman. China has been on the rise ever since at the 
beginning of this century we gave them permanent most favored 
nation status. I was there at the time and they told us it 
would increase the trade deficit by a billion dollars. They 
were off by 4,000 percent.
    I would point out that the vast majority of Democrats voted 
against that action and we did so under pressure from a 
Democratic president who turned out to be wrong on this one 
issue.
    And I would hope our Republican colleagues will take note 
of this. Perhaps your proudest hour will be on occasion where 
you say no to a Republican president.
    We now have this enormous trade deficit with China. I would 
point out that it is considerably larger under Trump 1.0 then 
it was under Biden, and that was particularly true in the pre-
COVID years of the Trump administration.
    So while Trump talks about how other countries are eating 
our lunch, they ate our lunch and our dinner under the first 
Trump administration.
    Now, one issue we have is Americans investing in Chinese 
stocks. Now, China wants to encourage its people to invest in 
their stock and they provide tax incentives for doing so.
    But they're careful to make sure that no citizen of China 
gets an incentive--a tax credit--for investing in American 
stocks.
    But we have a capital gains allowance where we provide many 
hundreds of millions of dollars in subsidies to benefit 
Americans who invest in Chinese stocks.
    If any of you think that that's a good idea could you raise 
your hand? I'm not seeing.
    But what's surprising is I only got one Republican co-
sponsor for my bill to take away this subsidy for investing in 
the Chinese economy, and I would hope that we would do a lot 
better in this Congress.
    You'll have to stand up to billionaires to do that because 
billionaires think they should get a tax incentive for 
everything, even being Benedict Arnold when it comes to where 
they invest their money.
    I think you pointed out how some of the small countries in 
the Pacific are rounding errors when it comes to trade. It's 
even more of a rounding error when it comes to aid.
    I believe that the special--the House Select Committee on 
the Chinese Communist Party unanimously and in a bipartisan way 
called on us to fully fund USAID.
    Now, American soldiers, including my father's friends, died 
in the Pacific over the very islands that would be of great 
strategic importance if, God forbid, we ever ended up in 
another war with a major Asian power.
    Does it--raise your hand if you think it made any sense for 
us to stop all aid to the small islands in the Pacific as we 
did just a week or two ago when we froze all USAID?
    Again, I'll say that no hands went up. The Solomon Islands 
where so many Americans--Marines--died we had a $21 million 
economic support arrangement with and we have stopped that, and 
even if we started again we have proven ourselves to be 
unreliable. A $95,000 aid program to the Cook Islands and we 
stopped that. It's tragic.
    Now, I'll point out one other thing. We have got China 
making these debt trap loans where they loan money and there's 
no way that the project will pay it back.
    Should we encourage nations that are a victim of this to 
simply not pay China back? Does anybody agree with that or 
disagree?
    Should Sri Lanka be writing giant--well, so I'll point out 
that we, in effect, force these countries to pay back because 
we allow our credit rating agencies and our lenders to treat a 
country as if it's a bad credit risk because they fail to pay 
China back.
    I would say that we ought to turn to countries and say, 
don't give China your port. Give them your middle finger, and 
then you'll still be able to borrow from Europe, from the 
United States, and from the international community.
    And with that, my time has expired.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you, Mr. Sherman.
    I recognize Representative Barr for your 5 minutes of 
questioning.
    Mr. Barr. Thank you.
    Mr. Singleton, thank you for recognizing the COINS Act, the 
outbound screening legislation from the last Congress that I 
worked on, and I do agree with you that we do need legislation 
to address capital flows into China, especially to Chinese 
entities of national security concern and technologies that 
threaten our national security as well.
    Last Friday President Trump issued an executive order 
titled ``American First Investment Policy'' and issued a 
national security memorandum that was in large measure aligned 
with the principles of the COINS Act. He said in conjunction 
with that release we will adopt new rules to stop U.S. 
companies from pouring investments into China and stop China 
from buying up America, allowing all of these investments that 
serve American interests, meaning that it's exactly the right 
policy.
    It's the America first policies, red light to investments 
that compromise our national security but allow those 
investments that actually advance our interests.
    My question to you is given the fact that the 
administration has now issued an executive order--it replaces 
the Biden executive order on outbound investment screening--is 
it important that Congress act as well here? Is it important 
that Congress pass legislation to provide statutory definition 
to all of this?
    Mr. Singleton. No, absolutely, and thank you for your 
leadership on this issue.
    I mean, cutting off Xi's access, I would say, to Western 
capital and technology is like depriving a fire of oxygen. I 
think if we don't we're sort of very much fueling the system 
that is seeking to overshadow our own.
    I was very impressed with the policy release memo last week 
but it's vital that those protections be codified into law.
    In many respects, the memo released last week goes a little 
bit farther than COINS by identifying new sectors including 
biotechnology, which I would argue is the next semiconductors, 
where we need to be hyper vigilant about capital flows.
    But I think what's captured in the COINS Act is exactly the 
right pitch perfect moment. There's bipartisan consensus. I 
know it was a long road to get there but I think at this point 
it's the best hope for right now.
    Mr. Barr. Yes. And thanks, Mr. Singleton, for recognizing 
that the Treasury-White House release is slightly different 
than COINS and we have actually been reaching out to the 
administration asking for interagency technical assistance. We 
want to incorporate that into the release of COINS 2.0.
    What would you say, though, to the argument that--and 
obviously, because of my work on this I support the effort--but 
what would you say to those who make the argument, and it's not 
altogether a bad point, that under Xi Jinping China has 
abandoned the American innovation model, that the Chinese 
Communist central planning has replaced private allocation of 
capital with state-run investment and because of that between 
2018 and 2023 the number of annual startups founded in China 
has collapsed by over 97 percent and that Chairman Xi's 
crackdown has really deterred U.S. investment.
    Since 2018 U.S. venture capital deals in China have fallen 
by 87 percent. In other words, the market is taking care of 
this. China's economy is collapsing. China's disadvantage is 
that they're communists.
    And so outbound investment is slowing down because it's a 
bad place to invest. Do we still need COINS? Do we still need 
an investment screening tool?
    Mr. Singleton. No, absolutely. I mean Xi Jinping is his own 
worst enemy and his economic stewardship has led China to where 
it is today which is on the point of economic collapse, quite 
frankly.
    I think what we have to do is protect American capital, 
American investors, and American technology, and institute 
through law common sense guardrails that ensure that American 
capital isn't flowing into the very technological sectors that 
are being used to fuel Chinese military modernization and I 
think that linkage between the military and the civil, 
particularly as it relates to investment screening and bans, is 
essential if for no other reason that just because China's 
economy is suffering today doesn't mean that they can't recover 
tomorrow.
    Mr. Barr. Well, I agree with you and I agree with President 
Trump on his executive order.
    Look, it's true. Chairman Xi has, in some regards, made 
China uninvestable. Why on earth anyone would want to invest in 
a communist economy where at any moment's notice at the whim of 
the bureaucrats in Beijing all of your investment could 
disappear.
    Nevertheless, there are capital flows. There are Western 
investors, U.S. and otherwise, who are investing in some of 
these critical technologies and so we do need legislation.
    I appreciate your testimony. I yield back.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you.
    I now recognize Representative Amo for your 5 minutes of 
questioning.
    Mr. Amo. Thank you very much, Chairwoman, and it's a 
pleasure to be on this subcommittee and I look forward to your 
leadership and that of the ranking member over this Congress.
    I know that every member of our subcommittee wants to 
advance American interests and counter China's influence in 
East Asia and the Pacific and every member should want to 
strengthen our supply chains, boost economic cooperation, and 
protect our national security.
    And I believe that every member understands the only way to 
achieve this is by building alliances and partnerships. As we 
look at the last 4 years I believe that President Biden 
understood these points.
    It's why he led a historic effort to establish one of the 
most significant security agreements in generations. Australia, 
United Kingdom, United States security pact, as everyone knows, 
is AUKUS and it's important to just break it down and share 
that, you know, AUKUS improves that monitoring and increases 
deterrence in the Indo-Pacific.
    It allows the United States to continue our leadership in 
emerging defense technology. Pillar one created a pathway for 
Australia to acquire nuclear submarines. Pillar two created 
deeper cooperation between all of the three allies for advanced 
defense capabilities.
    Now, many businesses in my home State of Rhode Island are 
working on technology included in AUKUS like the Virginia-class 
submarine, or they're developing technology for pillar two like 
the next generation of underwater drones.
    And so this agreement promotes national security and boosts 
local economies with good-paying jobs. It strengthens our 
relationships around the world.
    Mr. Fontaine, could you share why it's so essential that we 
continue the work of AUKUS and how can we work to strengthen 
cooperation as we move further into pillar two?
    Mr. Fontaine. Sure. Thank you, Congressman.
    Well, pillar one, I think the case for that is probably 
straightforward, but to increase over some years but, 
nevertheless, to increase the number of allied nuclear-
propelled submarines in the key military theater. This is a 
good thing, especially given China's increase in capabilities 
across the board.
    So we want that and, of course, the Australian 
participation in pillar one of AUKUS is a significant injection 
of several billion dollars into the submarine industrial base 
in the United States at a moment when we're behind on sub 
production, and so that's a good outcome as well.
    On pillar two, you know, in a way a lot of the hard work 
has already been done. The Congress, you know, went through the 
exercise of ITAR reform, which is always, you know, throwing 
sand in the gears of some of these ability of countries' 
ability, including some of our closest intelligence and 
military partners, to cooperate with us in technology.
    So that part has been done. We have taken our lumps from 
the French for having, you know, participated in the sub 
contract. So a lot of the hard work has been done.
    On pillar two I think that the key is to have some quick, 
visible wins because this is a proof of concept, right? This is 
not only something that could work for the U.S.--the United 
States--the U.S., U.K. and Australia., but iIf this goes well, 
and we can show that things are possible with pillar two that 
otherwise wouldn't be then Japan, South Korea, India, other 
countries can plug in on particular projects in a similar sort 
of fashion.
    But we haven't seen the quick wins yet and there's are a 
bunch of potential projects. I mean, tThe Australians have some 
unique capabilities on quantum PNT--position, navigation, and 
timing--you mentioned unmanned undersea capabilities--in a 
matter of, you know, months--12 months, 18 months, 24 months on 
the back end, not years.
    To show some quick wins on pillar two would give some 
serious momentum to AUKUS and I think demonstrate its utility 
to everybody.
    Mr. Amo. And I greatly appreciate your point of emphasis on 
growing partnerships and I'm hopeful that, you know, after the 
past 36 days of the Trump administration that the 
administration will demonstrate that they value these 
partnerships, that they understand the value therein because, 
you know, we have seen questioning our transatlantic alliances, 
we have seen foreign aid freezes, and we want to, you know, 
lower the temperature and ensure that our friends around the 
world aren't going to question our commitment to our values, 
and jeopardizing those would be a problem to proceeding as we 
should in AUKUS.
    And so, you know, it is my hope that we don't have an 
absence of American leadership because if that is the case 
China will take advantage to fill that vacuum, reaching out to 
our allies and partners, being more of a threat in the Indo-
Pacific and doing the work to really combat our values, our 
sense of our leadership in the world, and that's a message that 
I think we can all agree on.
    With that, I yield.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you very much.
    Let me recognize Representative Radewagen for your 5 
minutes of questioning.
    Mrs. Radewagen.
    [Foreign language spoken.]
    Good afternoon. Thank you, Chairwoman Kim and Ranking 
Member Bera, for holding this hearing and thank you to the 
panel for testifying today.
    As you may be able to tell how I'm dressed I am a Pacific 
Islander and represent the beautiful territory of American 
Samoa, the only United States soil south of the Equator.
    So this hearing is especially important to me as we are 
discussing my home, the Pacific. I want to highlight some 
recent developments in the Pacific Islands.
    Within the past 3 weeks both independent Samoa and the Cook 
Islands have signed major agreements with China. Unfortunately, 
I don't have a map here but independent Samoa is my neighbor 60 
miles to the west.
    Cook Islands are my neighbor to the east, along with 
Kiribati. My home district is now surrounded on three sides by 
countries that have signed major economic and security deals 
with China.
    And since this hearing is on opportunities for the new 
administration what are actions that President Trump and 
Secretary Rubio can do to counteract China in the Pacific 
Islands?
    And I'd like all three of you to answer, please.
    Mr. Fontaine. Well, we talked earlier about, you know, 
potential trade opportunities and things like that, and there's 
also the aid aspect of this.
    As we were discussing before, the amounts of aid are 
relatively small that go into these countries when you look in 
at the grand scheme of the amount of foreign aid that the 
United States has provided to countries all over the world, but 
it makes a big difference there and we, frankly, are in a 
competition with China for influence.
    I think what we don't want to see is exactly what you 
described where we have sovereign U.S. soil surrounded on three 
sides by countries that wish to be closer to China economically 
and certainly security wise.
    So to use the various tools in our tool kit on aid, on 
trade, on diplomatic engagement, on, you know, security support 
and things like that, those are the things that can make a 
difference.
    But, again, it has to be sustained. We have to demonstrate 
that this is not just an kind of epiphenomenon where we are 
suddenly interested in the Pacific Islands and we develop some 
initiatives and then they start to fade in a couple of years. 
We have to sustain these efforts over a long period of time.
    Mr. Cooper. Congresswoman, I would just add briefly I think 
it's absolutely critical that the United States explain not 
just to policymakers but also to the American people why this 
is in the American interest and, you know, those of us in the 
think tank community probably have our work cut out on that 
issue.
    But I think it's actually pretty clear. If you're President 
Trump and you're looking for areas where a little bit of money 
goes a long way what better place than the Pacific? Relatively 
small populations that are desperate for greater engagement 
from the United States.
    Sometimes they're not even looking for a lot of money, 
right? Sometimes it may just be a little bit of diplomatic 
engagement, right--opening embassies in some places that's 
relatively cheap. And the strategic logic is extremely clear 
and anyone that's read their history knows why that's the case.
    So I think the challenge we're going to have is that some 
of these ongoing programs I think are probably paused at the 
moment and so we're going to have to explain both, you know, to 
the American people but also to some people within the 
government why these are so critical and why spending a little 
bit of money now in these areas is absolutely important in the 
long term.
    Mr. Singleton. I would agree with everything that's been 
said and just add on that beyond the deal with the Cook Islands 
we also saw live fire drills around Australia this week. Quite 
alarming, demonstrating, I think, a capability and an intent 
from the Chinese to project much farther from their shores.
    I think as it relates specifically to Pacific Island 
countries there are several opportunities. One is seabed 
mineral mining, which is an area that's ripe for, I think, 
opportunity for the United States.
    I think fishery management, maritime transport, and 
security are other areas that closely align with this 
administration and the previous administration--even 
educational exchange, climate change assistance and support. 
These are all, I think, basic programs that I think to the 
points raised are relatively inexpensive but go a long way to 
deepen people to people ties.
    Mrs. Radewagen. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I yield back 
the balance of my time.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you.
    I recognize Representative Castro for your 5 minutes of 
questioning.
    Mr. Castro. Thank you, Chairwoman.
    Mr. Fontaine, in your testimony you note that in 2022 Nepal 
accepted a $500 million grant through the Millennium Challenge 
Corporation to expand its electricity grid and improve road 
infrastructure.
    China and their supporters in Nepal fought hard to try to 
prevent this. They argued that Nepal was making a mistake in 
working with the United States and I'm glad that they were 
unsuccessful in their argument.
    The Trump administration has abruptly frozen this 
assistance with no transparency. Many government officials in 
Nepal now worry whether they made the right decision in 
partnering with the United States.
    How do you think Nepal's leaders feel about their decision 
to make the politically difficult decision to ignore China, to 
bypass China, and to work with the United States?
    Mr. Fontaine. Well, I suppose they're waiting for the 
outcome of this review and I hope that this gets turned back on 
because this is the reason I mentioned it in my testimony.
    If you look at this $500 million MCC compact with Nepal, it 
took the--it took Kathmandu about 5 years to actually come to 
the point where they agreed to do it for exactly the reasons 
that you said, because they were being lobbied by the Chinese 
not to do it, because this is kind of a declaration of 
strategic intent that they, you know, had to think pretty hard 
about.
    And it's also worth noting that this all took place during 
the first Trump administration. This is a Trump administration 
idea to do this with Nepal, and so now that this is frozen the 
Chinese would love to march in and say, we will replace the 
Americans here, and also point out American unreliability if we 
were able to say once this was going and now this is not.
    And it's also worth noting that Nepal agreed to kick in 
$200 million of its own money toward all of this. So it wasn't 
just us putting in our own.
    Mr. Castro. Thank you. And I guess--well, let me ask you, 
do you have confidence that that aid will be unfrozen? That 
that deal will be unfrozen? And bear in mind the National 
Endowment for Democracy their funding has been frozen. IRI is 
frozen. NDI is frozen.
    That represents, along with what USAID represented on the 
development side, a way that the United States engaged the 
world and also promoted democracy around the world.
    So I would ask the panel, having seen what you have seen of 
the Trump administration, the United States, for example, just 
voted with Russia this week to prevent a resolution that 
essentially would have placed the blame on Russia for the 
invasion of Ukraine.
    From what you've seen so far do you have confidence that 
these funds will be unfrozen?
    Mr. Fontaine. I don't know what's going to happen with the 
funds. But I can point out in addition to the Nepal example I 
gave how I think some of this if not corrected is--amounts to 
shooting ourselves in the foot.
    So iIf you look at what NDI and IRI has have been doing, 
they funded, for example, groups in Bangladesh, Burma, Nepal, 
and Sri Lanka, which have already been approached by the 
Chinese saying--because the funds have been frozen saying, we 
will replace the American funds.
    Now, these are democracy groups so they don't have much 
interest in taking money from the Chinese in the first place. 
But that's not going to be the case for everybody.
    And so, again, there's--you know, the Chinese are sort of 
ready to----
    Mr. Castro. So it's created an opportunity for China to 
come in as we----
    Mr. Fontaine. Correct.
    Mr. Castro [continuing]. pulled back or receded.
    Mr. Fontaine. Or, you know, IRI, for example, provides 
cyber tools for circumvention technologies and other things 
that allow dissidents and democracy activists in places like 
China to be able to communicate with each other away from the 
watchful eye of the State.
    Well, that's frozen now, and so I think those are the kinds 
of things that we would want to have in our arsenal as we 
compete with China.
    Mr. Castro. Gentlemen, you will have--and I would just also 
note real quick that I think what's especially troubling is 
while these funds are frozen, these deals are frozen, it's not 
as if there's been some other plan that's been laid out to 
describe, you know, what else is going to go on in lieu of 
these things, right?
    Like, you know, then you could have some debate about 
whether that's better. Here, everything is just frozen.
    Mr. Cooper. Well, I think it was, you know, Secretary 
Mattis that said that if we don't end up spending a little bit 
of development assistance in places then we end up having to 
use bullets, and that certainly, I think, would be the concern.
    I'll just say very briefly that I think at the end of the 
day the Trump administration--I understand the logic of why 
they want to cut down on government spending, right? But I 
think the point that's critical is we have got to do an 
assessment of each of these projects to see whether it's 
worthwhile.
    And so doing anything across the board doesn't make sense, 
especially when we can't turn them back on after that, and so I 
worry a huge amount about the damage that that could do over 
the long term.
    Mr. Singleton. I would add, I mean, China routinely 
criticized IRI, NDI, and NED projects, and I think they claimed 
that they were--we were smearing Beijing. I think that is 
reason enough to keep a lot of them.
    But I think a wholesale review is important. That should be 
done expeditiously and I think to the extent possible a lot of 
these projects should be reinstated.
    Mr. Castro. Thank you. I yield back, Chair.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you.
    I now recognize Representative Biggs for your 5 minutes of 
questioning.
    Mrs. Biggs. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and I appreciate 
our witnesses today for your testimoneys this afternoon.
    As the engine of the global economy, East Asia and 
Pacific--and I'll just say EAP here on out--the Pacific's 
stability is fundamentally linked to our prosperity and 
security.
    Maritime domain awareness is therefore paramount within 
this vast space, demanding a comprehensive approach that 
recognizes the interconnectedness of security and economic 
environment.
    So serving on both the subcommittee and the Homeland 
Security, Transportation and Maritime Security Subcommittee 
grants me a unique dual perspective. From my vantage point the 
United States Coast Guard's leadership in enhancing the 
region's maritime domain awareness is undeniable.
    We see the Coast Guard standing shoulder to shoulder with 
nations across the EAP region, from Palau in the Pacific 
Islands to Japan in northeast Asia.
    In Palau this partnership focuses on countering illicit 
maritime activities like illegal, unreported, and unregulated 
fishing which safeguard our vital resources.
    Further north the Coast Guard conducts engagement with 
Japanese counterparts by collaborating on regular western 
Pacific exercises and active intelligence sharing that 
strengthens interoperability and ultimately contributes to a 
more transparent and secure maritime environment.
    Across the EAP the Coast Guard embodies this proactive 
approach, not simply reacting to crises but actively fostering 
maritime safety and security by assisting nations in incident 
response, providing essential support, and building critical 
maritime domain awareness.
    This vital work takes on even greater significance as 
maritime domain awareness becomes a central pillar of the Quad 
initiative, which recognizes that a stable and secure maritime 
domain is foundational for regional peace and prosperity.
    This brings me to my first question, and I would like to 
ask each of you to please respond briefly. What specific role 
can an increased Coast Guard presence play within the Quad 
framework to address the complex and evolving regional security 
challenges that we face today?
    Mr. Singleton. I'll go first.
    I mean, I think countering Chinese illegal fishing is one 
area where the Coast Guard has an important role to play as a 
force multiplier but, frankly, is an untapped resource and it's 
not limited to the EAP region.
    There are news reports this week of Chinese illegal fishing 
fleets operating off the coast of Argentina where the Argentine 
military actually had to intervene.
    I think these are areas where the Coast Guard has 
tremendous experience and expertise and technology and where we 
can really have value add.
    Mrs. Biggs. Thank you.
    Mr. Fontaine. I would just add, ma'am, the--it's so 
critical in many of these countries that--you know, they don't 
have the ability to easily cooperate with our Navy.
    Our naval ships tend to be much larger and much more 
capable than their navies are and much of the time their navies 
are doing missions that are much more similar to our Coast 
Guard with vessels that are closer in size to Coast Guard 
vessels.
    And so often they actually, I think, prefer to be able to 
work with our Coast Guard than sometimes the Navy, which is a 
little bit more challenging for them to deal with in on a 
symmetrical basis.
    So I think there's tremendous interest across the region, 
really, not just in the Pacific but the whole region in having 
a much greater U.S. Coast Guard presence.
    Mrs. Biggs. Thank you.
    Mr. Fontaine. I guess just violently agreeing with my 
colleagues. I mean, the--I think the appetite for greater 
maritime domain awareness by the countries in the region is 
almost unlimited.
    I mean, tThey don't have the capabilities often to 
understand the environment themselves, and by plugging into 
activities and information gathering activities that the United 
States does, especially through the Coast Guard, that's a major 
service that the United States can provide and ultimately is 
good for us because it's not just about, you know, fending off 
China.
    It's about illegal fishing but it's also piracy and 
humanitarian response and natural disasters and things like 
that. If there's an area to do more there's been some 
activities through the Quad and things but, you know, the--more 
the southern reaches of the Indian Ocean are particularly not 
well defined in terms of maritime domain awareness.
    And so those would be--that would be an obvious region in 
order to--an obvious region to look for if we wanted to do 
more.
    Mrs. Biggs. Thank you. My time is up.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you.
    I recognize Representative Olszewski for your 5 minutes of 
questioning.
    Mr. Olszewski. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
    I'll just echo the sentiments of my colleagues earlier 
about how grateful I am to be serving on the Subcommittee on 
East Asia and the Pacific.
    It is rewarding and gratifying to see the level of 
bipartisanship already being displayed both on this side of the 
dais but also some of the unanimity from our witnesses today. 
So thank you all for taking the time to be with us.
    I look forward to working with you, Chairwoman Kim, Ranking 
Member Bera. Thank you for leading the way in that work as 
well.
    I just want to dive in a little bit. I think the stage has 
sort of been set earlier. I loved, Mr. Cooper, your comment 
about what better place than the Pacifics to sort of make these 
small investments for big return--small amounts of diplomacy 
for big return.
    I really appreciate you all sharing the concern about 
damage over the long term. I appreciate your candor and the 
uncertainty as to if or when or which pieces of aid might be 
restored but they're all so critical.
    I guess just taking a slightly different look at it is can 
you one or several of you speak briefly to the fact of now that 
aid has been stopped are we seeing and to what degree are we 
seeing China step in? Do you have any specific examples or data 
that you can share in terms of what we're seeing now that that 
aid has dried up?
    Mr. Fontaine. Well, I gave a couple before but on Nepal, 
certainly, the potential demise of the MCC compact with--the 
$500 million compact with Nepal gives China an opportunity., 
which iIt has been attempting to make political and economic 
inroads in Nepal for a long time., and tThen, you know, the 
other specific examples whereon, you know, include the freeze 
in the availability of cyber tools that are provided through 
IRI in particular to dissidents in places, including inside 
China and be able enable them to communicate safely and 
securely. tThose are frozen now.
    That would, obviously, give the government of China an 
opportunity. and at least mMy understanding is that partners of 
both IRI and NDI in Burma, Bangladesh, Nepal and Sri Lanka have 
been already approached by China to say if the Americans won't 
fund you we will.
    So those are a few specific examples.
    Mr. Cooper. Can I just add a broad point to build on 
Richard's, which is if you look at polling data across 
Southeast Asia the data has not been great for the United 
States over the last 5 years. It showed a decreasing confidence 
in continued American engagement and, unfortunately, that's 
true from both of the last two administrations.
    Now, I think if you overlap that with, you know, what you 
were just talking about, Congressman, that it's just going to 
accelerate these questions about whether the United States is 
really a reliable partner and, unfortunately, that's happening 
at a time that China is already making even more inroads and 
building more influence in parts of Southeast Asia and the 
Pacific and South Asia and elsewhere.
    So I worry that this is reinforcing trends that were 
already occurring in the region, and so if we're going to 
reverse those trends not only do we have to turn the money back 
on in most cases, we're also going to have to think of new 
ideas and new proposals to add to that.
    So I think it's not just a question of stopping the damage. 
We also have to reverse the momentum and put some ideas on the 
table ourselves.
    Mr. Singleton. I would agree wholeheartedly. I mean, we 
have seen indications in places like Cambodia as well, Myanmar, 
about deactivation of these programs particularly in the civil 
society and reporting space--journalist space.
    I think one thing we have all realized is that a lot of 
Chinese coercion is quite corrosive on civil society and it's 
very important that we fund free academic journalist exchanges 
on the ground so they can report the situation fairly and 
accurately and we're not ceding the information space to the 
Chinese.
    Mr. Olszewski. So just fair to say the longer this goes on 
the harder it's going to be not only to get back to where we 
were but to also--fair to say? Yes.
    I'll just reaffirm to my colleagues here and to others I 
think many of us are committed to rooting out waste and abuses 
that are legitimate.
    So to the extent we continue this conversation I very much 
want to be a part of stopping aid that does not advance 
American interests while not having the damage done that we're 
seeing today.
    So thank you all very much. With that, Madam Chair, I 
yield.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you.
    We do have some time so I would like to take the 
opportunity to go for a second round of questioning and the 
first question I would like to address is the CCP and its IP 
theft that we're all concerned about.
    According to FBI, the CCP steals up to $600 billion worth 
of U.S. intellectual property every year. So we need to use 
every tool available to stop this obvious theft and hold the 
CCP accountable.
    So I would like to first ask Mr. Singleton maybe start and 
then you can all chime in. How can the U.S. leverage existing 
partnerships that we have in the Indo-Pacific with our allies 
and partners so that we can create a unified or united front 
against the CCP's IP theft?
    Mr. Singleton. No, absolutely. So much of the IP theft that 
we discuss is occurring in the commercial space but I also 
focus on the academic space as well.
    Congress recently reintroduced the DETERRENT Act, which 
aims to crack down on Chinese attempts to secure intellectual 
property from our college campuses, much of which is funded by 
Congress.
    I think these are basic common sense measures that will 
force universities to reckon with the fact that they're going 
to have to diligently report their entanglements with Chinese 
universities and Chinese companies, particularly those tied to 
Chinese civil-military fusion.
    I think that's probably one key area where partners and 
allies are on board with rigorous academic partnership 
screening. It's an area where other countries, including 
Canada, are actually ahead of us.
    I think we have a lot to learn. But this is an area where I 
think you're going to see broad agreement and recognition that 
we have to close those loopholes beyond the corporate IP theft 
that we see every day.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you.
    Mr. Cooper. Just to add to that, I a number of years ago 
had the chance to do a report with the Foundation for Defense 
of Democracies on this very specific issue and one thing that 
we pointed out in that report is there are a number of products 
in which the U.S. Government has charged Chinese agents with 
stealing American technology and the businesses that were 
engaged in that stolen technology are still selling the 
products back into the United States--solar cells, for 
example--at massive scale, and they drove the American 
producers out of business in so doing.
    I don't understand how we can't just turn the spigot off of 
the ones where--we actually indicted people in China working 
for the government who are stealing this technology and we're 
still letting them drive our companies out of business years 
later.
    So I think there are areas like that where we just 
absolutely have to take action and until we do I don't think 
that Beijing is going to take us seriously on this issue.
    Mrs. Kim. Please chime in, Mr. Fontaine.
    Mr. Fontaine. Well, the--China's theft of intellectual 
property from the United States and other countries as well has 
described by some as, you know, one of the greatest wealth 
transfers in history and I think probably rightly so., and 
wWhen you look at it, it truly is outrageous, both in terms of 
scale and just the substance of what the Chinese have been 
doing over time with this expensive time--you know, the amount 
of time that it takes to develop technology and intellectual 
property that haven't been stolen and then exploited for 
economic reasons, including sometimes in our own markets.
    The only thing that I would add in terms of potential 
remedies is to the degree to which the intellectual property is 
stolen or is resident in cyberspace and through cyberspace I 
think there's a role for offensive cyber activities in all of 
this.
    I mean, tThis is something--somewhat controversial inside 
the government and policymaking circles. You have to be careful 
about these things.
    But we do have a lot of insights into who some of these 
actors are, how they operate, and the cyber tools that they use 
in order to conduct this theft and we have a lot of our own 
that we should be using just to protect ourselves and to exact 
a price on those who have engaged in these transgressions.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you. I would like to talk about one other 
issue, which is North Korea policy. We need to make some 
adjustments, you know, and the U.S. needs to make some policy 
changes toward North Korea, considering the evolving nuclear 
ambitions and continued weapons development, and I would like 
to see how you can--you know, talk to us about the U.S. taking 
leverage, existing mini lateral frameworks to strengthen the 
extended deterrence and enhance our regional security.
    Do you want to go, Mr. Cooper?
    Mr. Cooper. Sure. I think this is an incredibly important 
issue and, you know, unfortunately, I think our approach in 
recent years is probably best termed strategic patience 2.0.
    We have just sort of waited and put our attention into 
other things and the reality is is that the problem has gotten 
worse and so bad, in fact, that I think the risk is that now 
our allies in South Korea are actually fairly serious about 
developing their own independent nuclear capabilities because 
they worry about the pathway that North Korea is on.
    So I don't know whether Donald Trump can engage with Kim 
Jong--un directly and address some of these issues but I think 
we absolutely have to think about a renewed campaign to shift 
the direction because otherwise we're going to end up with an 
even larger North Korean arsenal, even more missiles, and 
without a strategy to deal with it.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you.
    Ranking Member?
    Mr. Bera. Sure. I'll just make a few closing comments.
    And I should have said this off the top. Yes, I appreciate 
the bipartisan nature of this but to, you know, our Foreign 
Service officers, folks that are working overseas, you know, I 
visit with them. They're often working in tough places, in 
refugee camps, et cetera.
    These are patriotic Americans and I feel for what they're 
going through right now, the uncertainty, having just traveled 
abroad, having had side conversations with folks. These are not 
folks that see the world as Democrats or Republicans.
    They see themselves as patriotic Americans, and I do want 
to publicly say thank you for your service and thank you for 
what you're doing, and hang in there.
    You know, again, we don't want to lose that talent, 
especially some of the younger folks but also the folks that 
have made a 30-, 35-year career out of this. These are 
patriotic Americans.
    I'm glad to hear in a bipartisan way, you know, the 
importance of some of these programs and some of these programs 
started in the first Trump administration.
    So we had Congressman Yoho, our former colleague, here 2 
weeks ago and just kind of watched him work the BUILD Act with 
Senator Coons and others.
    The Trump administration should be proud about that. They 
should not take that apart. As we come up on reauthorizing the 
DFC these are tools that I'd actually like to see us expand. 
They're tools that are good for America. They're good for 
American businesses. They're good for our influence.
    You know, in February 2020 right before the pandemic shut 
things down I led a CODEL to Sri Lanka and Nepal, largely, 
because both of them had MCC compacts that were sitting on the 
table that we absolutely saw Chinese misinformation. Like, 
these are grants. These are not Belt and Road type of debt 
diplomacy. These were direct grants.
    Now, the Rajapaksa administration ultimately turned that 
down and, you know, we did see the debt trap that Sri Lanka 
ended up in and what it did to its economy. It did take a lot 
of work to get Nepal and Kathmandu to agree it was a good deal. 
It is still a good deal for them.
    To the Nepalese, hang in there. You know, we will do 
everything we can to get those dollars flowing. Do not take 
that--you know, aAgain, look eyes wide open with how the 
Chinese do aid and development and use debt traps and, you 
know, you can look around the world and see the downside and 
the danger of that.
    That said, I do think with this America first initiative we 
are going to have to rethink a little bit how we do aid 
development finance and I touched on in my earlier comments how 
we leverage our resources with our like-minded, like-valued 
allies that have interest in this region. And, again, you know, 
I think that is where we, you know, with the European Union, 
with Japan, Korea, Australia, even India that has an older 
relationship with Africa and a broad diaspora is there.
    We ought to be looking for places where we can work and 
leverage our resources to go further to develop these economies 
and go into places like Kenya to develop things.
    We also should look at programs. You know, when I've 
traveled around the Pacific Islands there's a really elegant 
program called the Pacific Island Tuna Program that the Nature 
Conservancy with Wal-Mart, using DFC funds and so forth.
    Like, tThese are great programs that, you know, are public-
private partnerships and, you know, help build the resilience 
of fisheries and do development projects in some of these 
Pacific Islands.
    I would urge us as a subcommittee to look at how we can 
support and broaden some of these programs like Pacific 
Islands. That's not unique to Wal-Mart, and we have had those 
conversations.
    But, again, it's a really elegant program that is really 
appreciated in the Marshall Islands and, you know, a place like 
PNG would be the perfect place for us to go and expand a 
program like that.
    So I look forward to working with the witnesses in your 
organizations. I think it's an incredibly important time. You 
know, government efficiency is fine. You know, looking at 
programs and how we bring these programs to the 21st century is 
fine.
    But as we come out of this initial period of disruption I 
think it behooves all of us as Democrats, Republicans, 
academics, and the think tank community to say, OK, what would 
the right aid and development programs for the 21st century be 
like?
    What would the right strategy be? How do we partner with 
our allies and others to create that 21st century that we 
really want to see.
    So it'll be different than the past but what does that 
future geopolitical strategy for the 21st century look like. So 
thank you again for being here and, again, thank you, Madam 
Chairwoman.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you, Ranking Member.
    As we close, I'd like to, you know, just echo how important 
the East Asia and the Pacific Region is for the United States 
and its role in the world stage.
    As we reflect on the last 4 years, and I think we have done 
that very constructively and productively through our 
engagements and our dialog today, so I want to thank you again 
for your insights.
    Moving forward, I think it is very, very essential that we 
focus on strengthening our alliances and partnerships 
throughout the region and collectively we can combat the shared 
threats from North Korea, China, and these are the threats that 
we face today and it's not going away anytime soon.
    So our engagement must remain steadfast regardless of 
domestic political changes and we must also ensure that our 
economic strategy aligns with the needs of our partners. It's 
not something that is one sided so we need to really, really 
find ways to work together with our partners and allies.
    We must offer alternatives to China's state-driven economic 
model that too many countries have been forced to accept. So we 
need to show up. We need to bring alternative solutions to them 
and we cannot allow the global economy to be dictated by 
Beijing's standards.
    So while we stay resilient and steadfast, again, we need to 
be mindful of what our allies' and partners' needs are. 
Washington must use every available tool to advance our 
economic agenda while punishing the CCP's unfair trade 
practices.
    Finally, we talked about human rights in my opening 
remarks, and I don't think we went into that in depth today in 
our conversation but I truly believe human rights needs to 
remain a top priority in our foreign policy, and the Chinese 
Communist Party's repression both at home and abroad demands 
our action, our attention, and we need to be steadfast in that 
area as well.
    So as we look ahead we already recognize there are several 
significant opportunities for the U.S. to strengthen its 
influence in the region and to secure a future that reflects 
our values and our interest.
    So I look forward to working closely together with--not 
only with my colleagues here but with, you know, folks like you 
who are working on the ground, and you are experts in the field 
so we want to stay engaged in our conversation and we want to 
work with you as resource to many of us.
    So let's work together to ensure that our policies align 
with our--with the challenges and opportunities that East Asia 
and the Pacific region faces.
    With that, I want to thank you again for joining us. The 
committee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 3:51 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]


                               APPENDIX

                              ----------                              


               Material Submitted for the Hearing Record

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


                             [all]