[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                    H.R. 839, H.R. 1809, H.R. 2293,
                             AND H.R. 2316

=======================================================================

                          LEGISLATIVE HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                      SUBCOMMITTEE ON WATER, WILDLIFE AND 
                                 FISHERIES

                                 OF THE

                     COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                         Tuesday, April 8, 2025

                               __________

                           Serial No. 119-17

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Natural Resources
       
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]       


        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
                                   or
          Committee address: http://naturalresources.house.gov
          
                                __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
60-068 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------     

                     COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES

                      BRUCE WESTERMAN, AR, Chairman
		  ROBERT J. WITTMAN, VA, Vice Chairman
                    JARED HUFFMAN, CA, Ranking Member

		
Tom McClintock, CA			
Paul A. Gosar, AZ			Joe Neguse, CO
Aumua Amata C. Radewagen, AS		Teresa Leger Fernandez, NM					
Doug LaMalfa, CA			Melanie Stansbury, NM
Daniel Webster, FL			Val Hoyle, OR
Russ Fulcher, ID			Seth Magaziner, RI
Pete Stauber, MN			Jared Golden, ME
Tom Tiffany, WI				Dave Min, CA			
Lauren Boebert, CO			Maxine Dexter, OR
Cliff Bentz, OR				Pablo Jose Hernandez, PR
Jen Kiggans, VA				Emily Randall, WA
Wesley P. Hunt, TX			Yassamin Ansari, AZ
Mike Collins, GA			Sarah Elfreth, MD
Harriet M. Hageman, WY			Adam Gray, CA
Mark Amodei, NV				Luz Rivas, CA
Tim Walberg, MI				Nydia Velazquez, NY
Mike Ezell, MS				Debbie Dingell, MI
Celest Maloy, Utah			Darren Soto, FL
Addison McDowell, NC			Julia Brownley, CA
Jeff Crank, CO				Vacancy
Nick Begich, AK
Jeff Hurd, CO
Mike Kennedy, UT                              

                     Vivian Moeglein, Staff Director
                       William Davis, Chief Counsel
                Ana Unruh Cohen, Democratic Staff Director
                    http://naturalresources.house.gov


                                
                                ------                                

             SUBCOMMITTEE ON WATER, WILDLIFE AND FISHERIES

                     HARRIET M. HAGEMAN, WY, Chair
                       MIKE EZELL, MS, Vice Chair
                    VAL T. HOYLE, OR, Ranking Member

Robert J. Wittman, VA                Seth Magaziner, RI
Tom McClintock, CA                   Debbie Dingell, MI
Aumua Amata C. Radewagen, AS         Melanie A. Stansbury, NM
Doug LaMalfa, CA                     Jared Golden, ME
Daniel Webster, FL                   Dave Min, CA
Lauren Boebert, CO                   Sarah Elfreth, MD
Cliff Bentz, OR                      Adam Gray, CA
Jen Kiggans, VA                      Luz Rivas, CA
Tim Walberg, MI                      Darren Soto, FL
Mike Ezell, MS                       Julia Brownley, CA
Celeste Maloy, UT                    Joe Neguse, CO
Addison McDowell, NC                 Jared Huffman, CA, ex officio
Jeff Crank, CO
Bruce Westerman, AR, ex officio

                              -----------
                              
                                CONTENTS

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

Hearing Memo.....................................................     v
Hearing held on Tuesday, April 8, 2025...........................     1

Statement of Members:

    Hageman, Hon. Harriet, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Wyoming...........................................     2
    Hoyle, Hon. Val, a Representative in Congress from the State 
      of Oregon..................................................     3
    Huffman, Hon. Jared, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of California........................................     4
    Ezell, Hon. Mike, a Representative in Congress from the State 
      of Mississippi.............................................     6
    Hurd, Hon. Jeff, a Representative in Congress from the State 
      of Colorado................................................     7
    Quigley, Hon. Mike, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Illinois..........................................     8
    Arrington, Hon. Jodey, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Texas.............................................    10

Statement of Witnesses:

    McGlawn, Chris, President, Delta Cat Fisheries, Greenwood, 
      Mississippi................................................    11
        Prepared statement of....................................    13
    Roley, John, Landowner, Lubbock County, Lubbock, Texas.......    15
        Prepared statement of....................................    16
    Baker, Bryan, President, Board of Directors for Texas 
      Producers Cooperative, Sudan, Texas........................    17
        Prepared statement of....................................    18
    Anderson, Mikk, Board Member and Colorado Volunteer State 
      Policy Chair, Ducks Unlimited, Aurora, Colorado............    20
        Prepared statement of....................................    22

Additional Materials Submitted for the Record:

    Submissions for the Record by Representative Hoyle

        Opposition to H.R. 839, Group Letter.....................    40
        Healing Our Waters-Great Lakes Coalition, Letter.........    42

    Submissions for the Record by Representative Hurd

        Wetlands Conservation and Access Improvement Act of 2025, 
          Group Letter...........................................    43
        North American Wetlands Conservation Council, Group 
          Letter.................................................     7

    Submissions for the Record by Representative Arrington

        Dallas Morning News article, Why I Oppose the Muleshoe 
          Wildlife Refuge Expansion..............................    44

[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT

To:        Committee on Natural Resources Republican Members

From:     Subcommittee on Water, Wildlife and Fisheries staff: Annick 
        Miller, ([email protected]), Doug Levine 
        ([email protected]. gov), Kirby Struhar 
        ([email protected]), and Thomas Shipman 
        ([email protected]) x58331

Date:     April 7, 2025

Subject:   Legislative Hearing on H.R. 839, H.R. 1809, H.R. 2293, and 
        H.R. 2316
________________________________________________________________________
        
    The Subcommittee on Water, Wildlife and Fisheries will hold a 
legislative hearing on H.R. 839 (Rep. Arrington), to prohibit the 
implementation of a Land Protection Plan at Muleshoe National Wildlife 
Refuge; H.R. 1809 (Rep. Quigley), ``Great Lakes Fisheries Research 
Reauthorization Act''; H.R. 2293 (Rep. Ezell) ``Cormorant Relief Act of 
2025''; and H.R. 2316 (Rep. Hurd), ``Wetlands Conservation and Access 
Improvement Act of 2025'' on Tuesday, April 8, 2025, at 10:15 a.m. 
(EDT) in 1324 Longworth House Office Building.
    Member offices are requested to notify Jackson Renfro 
(jackson.renfro@ mail.house.gov) by 4:30 p.m. on Monday, April 7, 2025, 
if their Member intends to participate in the hearing.

I. KEY MESSAGES

     House Republicans are holding a hearing on three bills 
            that promote good stewardship of taxpayer dollars and sound 
            management of vital wildlife habitats.

     H.R. 839 would properly steward taxpayer dollars by 
            preventing the potential one-hundred-fold expansion of the 
            Muleshoe National Wildlife Refuge in Texas. At a time when 
            the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has billions of dollars 
            in deferred maintenance, the agency should focus on caring 
            for the lands it currently manages rather than expanding 
            the federal estate.

     H.R. 2293 would provide necessary relief to fish farmers 
            who are experiencing severe depredation impacts due to 
            predatory double-crested cormorants.

     H.R. 2316 would ensure the North American Wetlands 
            Conservation Act continues to be properly resourced and 
            conserve millions of acres of vital waterfowl habitat 
            around the nation.

II. WITNESSES
Panel I

     Members of Congress TBD

Panel II

     Mr. Bryan Baker, President, Board of Directors for Texas 
            Producers Cooperative, Sudan, Texas [H.R. 839]

     Mr. Chris McGlawn, President, Delta Cat Fisheries, 
            Swiftown, Mississippi [H.R. 2293]

     Mr. Mikk Anderson, Board Member and Colorado Volunteer 
            State Policy Chair, Ducks Unlimited, Aurora, Colorado [H.R. 
            2316]

     Mr. John Roley, Landowner, Lubbock County, Lubbock, Texas 
            [H.R. 839]
            (Minority Witness)

III. BACKGROUND

    H.R. 839, (Rep. Arrington, R-TX), To prohibit the implementation of 
a Land Protection Plan for Muleshoe National Wildlife Refuge.

    The National Wildlife Refuge System (System) is a network of U.S. 
Fish and Wildlife Service (Service) administered lands, submerged 
lands, and waters that provide habitat for fish and wildlife resources 
across the United States and U.S. territories.1 The System 
is made up of 571 national wildlife refuges (refuges), 38 wetland 
management districts, five marine national monuments, and 63 refuges 
with wilderness areas.2 These units comprise nearly 900 
million acres, with over 90 million acres of refuges located within the 
50 states and the remaining acreage located within the U.S. territories 
and insular areas.3 The System currently has a deferred 
maintenance backlog of $2.65 billion.4
    H.R. 839 would prohibit the implementation, administration, and 
enforcement of the finalized land management plan for the Muleshoe 
(Muleshoe) National Wildlife Refuge. On April 16, 2024, the Service 
announced the expansion of four refuges to ``conserve habitat, protect 
species and support recreation,'' as part of the Biden administration's 
30 by 30 initiative, part of a radical environmental agenda that seeks 
to lock up American lands and waters.5 Among the refuges 
included in the expansions was Muleshoe, which currently comprises 
6,440 acres of land along the West Texas and Eastern New Mexico border. 
The refuge was established in 1935 and according to the Service, ``is 
best known for hosting one of the largest concentrations of sandhill 
cranes in North America.'' 6 The proposed expansion would 
allow the refuge to purchase up to 700,000 acres of additional private 
lands from willing sellers, growing the refuge to more than 100 times 
its current size.7
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Under Service regulations for expanding a refuge, they must 
first finalize a land protection plan.8 This land protection 
plan includes provisions such as the reasons for expanding the refuge 
and an Endangered Species Act Section 7 analysis. Also included is an 
expansion area from which land can be purchased. In the case of 
Muleshoe, the finalized land protection plan includes an acquisition 
boundary of 7 million acres, the goal of which is to acquire 700,000 of 
those acres.9 The method of purchase by the Service to 
accomplish the goal of acquiring 700,000 acres would be by purchasing 
property outright and adding to the federal estate or by using 
conservation easements to restrict land uses on private property.
    The potential addition of 700,000 acres of federal land will have 
direct impacts on the areas surrounding Muleshoe. As with any federal 
land acquisition, local tax revenues will be impacted, as lands under 
the ownership of the federal government are not taxable. The Service is 
required to help offset the loss in local tax revenue by making 
payments to counties that equate to either 25 percent of the net 
receipts of timber sales and grazing leases on the refuge or 0.75 
percent of the adjusted purchase price of refuge lands.10 It 
is also unclear how the Service plans to manage lands acquired to 
expand Muleshoe, given the existing maintenance backlog currently 
facing the System.
    Several counties within the expansion area have passed resolutions 
opposing the Service's decision, these include Lamb and Parmer Counties 
in Texas, and Roosevelt, Lea and Chaves Counties in New 
Mexico.11

    H.R. 2293, (Rep. Ezell, R-MS), ``Cormorant Relief Act of 2025''

    Double-crested cormorants (cormorants) are one of six cormorant 
species that are native to North America, with their largest 
concentration being in the Great Lakes region. Cormorants were listed 
under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act (MBTA) in 1972, as the abundance of 
the species had decreased considerably due to the use of chemicals such 
as dichloro-diphenyl-trichloroethane (DDT).12 Today, 
however, the Service estimates the population of cormorants in the 
continental U.S. and Canada to be between 871,001 and 1,031,757 
birds.13
    Cormorants' diet consists mostly of fish, eating on average a pound 
of fish per day. According to the Service, ``[t]hey are opportunistic 
and generalist feeders, preying on many species of fish by 
concentrating on those that are easiest to catch.'' 14 This 
can make commercial aquaculture facilities optimal feeding grounds for 
cormorants, causing significant damage and economic harm to these 
facilities. According to a 2021 study, economic losses to fish farms 
from cormorants are estimated to be $64.7 million per year, including 
the cost of non-lethal management techniques, and the revenue lost from 
cormorant depredation.15
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    In 1998, the Service created an Aquaculture Depredation Order 
(Aquaculture Order) under the authorities provided in the 
MBTA.16 The Aquaculture Order allowed the Department of 
Agriculture's Animal and Plant Inspection Service (APHIS) Wildlife 
Services to work with fish farmers to implement non-lethal and lethal 
techniques to prevent cormorants from eating fish in commercial 
aquaculture ponds. Fish farmers were required to report the number of 
cormorants killed each year. The intent of the Aquaculture Order was to 
reduce administrative costs for the Service and provide more timely 
relief for fish farmers. The Aquaculture Order was renewed three times, 
in 2003, 2009, and 2014 for five-year increments.17
    In 2003, the Service also issued a Public Resource Depredation 
Order (Public Order), which was intended to reduce the risks to public 
resources from cormorants through both lethal and non-lethal 
means.18 The Public Order was renewed three times, in 2003, 
2008, and 2014,19 with its 2014 renewal triggering a lawsuit 
from the organization Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility 
(PEER) on the grounds that the renewal violated the National 
Environmental Policy Act (NEPA).20 The Aquaculture Order was 
also challenged in PEER's lawsuit. On May 25, 2016, Judge John D. Bates 
of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia ruled in PEER's 
favor, concluding the Service violated NEPA by reissuing the Public 
Order without an adequate Environmental Assessment (EA). Judge Bates 
also vacated the Aquaculture Order for not having an adequate 
EA.21
    With the removal of the Aquaculture and Public Orders, the Service 
created an individual permit system based on a Population Take Limit 
(PTL) model. The PTL model is based upon nest counts and currently 
allows an annual take of up to 121,504 cormorants.22 When 
the Service issues a permit to take a cormorant, it indicates the 
number of cormorants allowed to be taken under that permit.

    H.R. 2316 (Rep. Hurd, R-CO),  ``Wetlands Conservation and Access 
Improvement Act of 2025''

    The Pittman-Robertson Wildlife Restoration Act (Pittman-Robertson), 
enacted in 1937, distributes federal aid to all 50 states and 5 U.S. 
territories to carry out wildlife restoration, conservation, and hunter 
education and safety programs. Revenue for Pittman-Robertson is 
generated through an excise tax on all firearms, ammunition, and 
archery equipment.23 The Service administers Pittman-
Robertson and allocates funding through three programs: the Wildlife 
Restoration Program, the Basic Hunter Education and Safety Program, and 
the Enhanced Hunter Education and Safety Program. The Wildlife 
Restoration Program aids in funding state fish and wildlife programs 
and allocates funding for projects that restore, conserve, and enhance 
native habitats. Through this program states may use funding to 
purchase, restore, manage, and facilitate public access to wildlife 
areas.24 The formula used for apportionment to each state is 
one-third based on the total land area of the state and two-thirds 
based on the population of each state.25
    H.R. 2316 extends the period in which the interest accrued on 
unallocated Pittman-Robertson funds can be used to supplement 
congressional appropriations to the North American Wetlands 
Conservation Act (NAWCA). This provision is set to expire on September 
30, 2025.26 Without reauthorization of this provision, the 
interest would be distributed to states and territories under the 
current Pittman-Robertson apportionment formula. The Association of 
Fish and Wildlife Agencies, which represents the states, is supportive 
of H.R. 2316.27
    NAWCA provides grants to projects that conserve wetland habitats 
critical for migratory birds in the United States, Canada, and Mexico. 
According to the Service, over its nearly 40-year history NAWCA has 
benefited nearly 34 million acres of wetland habitat for migratory 
waterfowl through 3,300 individual projects.28 This success 
is why Congress reauthorized NAWCA as a part of the America's 
Conservation Enhancement (ACE) Reauthorization Act in December 
2024.29

[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    H.R. 1809 (Rep. Quigley, D-IL), ``Great Lakes Fishery Research 
Reauthorization Act''

    On December 20, 2019, President Trump signed the consolidated 
appropriations bill for Fiscal Year (FY) 2020.30 Included in 
this law was an authorization for the Director of the United States 
Geological Survey (USGS) to establish the Great Lakes Fishery Research 
Program (program).31 This program was established to conduct 
``monitoring, assessment, science, and research, in support of the 
binational fisheries within the Great Lakes Basin.'' 32 In 
authorizing this program, Congress found that to support the diverse 
ecosystem and economic engine of the Great Lakes, fisheries management 
and research requires sound science and new technologies.33 
The program carries out research, monitoring, and assessment of issues 
like fish movement and behavior, deepwater ecosystem science, fish 
habitat investigations, invasive species science, and how to leverage 
existing and new technology, vessels, and other scientific tools to 
help inform and serve fisheries managers.34
    Fish in the Great Lakes region do not observe borders between the 
two nations, which is why USGS partners with the Great Lakes Fishery 
Commission (GLFC) to carry out this program.35 The GLFC was 
first established in 1957 and facilitates management of the Great Lakes 
between the United States and Canada.36 An example of 
research carried under the program is USGS's extensive work to support 
the management the invasive sea lamprey,37 which has been 
present in the Great Lakes for decades. The program provides technical 
assistance, research into technology to control this invasive species, 
and assists with regulatory affairs.38 The science gained by 
this research is used to support the tribal, commercial, and 
recreational fisheries in the Great Lakes region. The latest studies 
estimate the economic value of the Great Lakes fishery to be more than 
$7 billion annually and show that it supports upwards of 75,000 
jobs.39
    P.L. 116-94 authorized this program through FY 2025 at $15 million 
per year. H.R. 1809 would extend the authorization of this program for 
another five years, until FY 2030, at existing authorization levels.

IV. MAJOR PROVISIONS & ANALYSIS

    H.R. 839 (Rep. Arrington, R-TX), To prohibit the implementation of 
a Land Protection Plan for Muleshoe National Wildlife Refuge.

     Prohibits the implementation of the 2024 Land Protection 
            Plan for the Muleshoe National Wildlife Refuge.

    H.R. 1809 (Rep. Quigley, D-IL), ``Great Lakes Fishery Research 
Reauthorization Act''

     Reauthorizes the Great Lakes Fishery Research program at 
            currently authorized funding levels.

    H.R. 2293 (Rep. Ezell, R-MS), ``Cormorant Relief Act of 2025''

     Requires the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to reinstate 
            the Aquaculture Depredation Order for double-crested 
            cormorants.

     Adds additional states to the order and adds definitions 
            for ``Lake Manager'' and ``Pond Manager.''

    H.R. 2316 (Rep. Hurd, R-CO), ``Wetlands Conservation and Access 
Improvement Act of 2025''

      Extends the authorization to direct the interest accrued 
            on unallocated Pittman Robertson Wildlife Restoration Act 
            funds to the North American Wetlands Conservation Act to 
            2033.

V. EFFECT ON CURRENT LAW

    H.R. 1809

    H.R. 2316
    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
.   
 LEGISLATIVE HEARING ON H.R. 839, TO PROHIBIT THE IMPLEMENTATION OF A 
LAND PROTECTION PLAN FOR MULESHOE NATIONAL WILDLIFE REFUGE; H.R. 1809, 
GREAT LAKES FISHERY RESEARCH REAUTHORIZATION ACT; H.R. 2293, CORMORANT 
  RELIEF ACT OF 2025; AND H.R. 2316, WETLANDS CONSERVATION AND ACCESS 
                        IMPROVEMENT ACT OF 2025

                              ----------                              


                         Tuesday, April 8, 2025

                     U.S. House of Representatives

             Subcommittee on Water, Wildlife and Fisheries

                     Committee on Natural Resources

                             Washington, DC

                              ----------                              

    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:17 a.m. in 
Room 1324, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Harriet 
Hageman [Chair of the Subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Hageman, Radewagen, Webster, 
Walberg, Ezell, Crank, Hoyle, Dingell, Min, Gray, and Huffman.
    Also present: Representatives Arrington, Hurd, and Quigley.
    Ms. Hageman. The Subcommittee on Water, Wildlife and 
Fisheries will come to order.
    Good morning, everyone. I want to welcome members, 
witnesses, and our guests in the audience to today's hearing.
    Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a 
recess of the Subcommittee at any time.
    Under Committee rule 4(f), any oral opening statements and 
hearings are limited to the Chair and the Ranking Member. I 
therefore ask unanimous consent that all other members' opening 
statements be made part of the hearing record if they are 
submitted in accordance with Committee rule 3(o).
    Without objection, so ordered.
    I also ask unanimous consent that the Congressman from 
Texas, Mr. Arrington, and the Congressman from Colorado, Mr. 
Hurd, be allowed to participate in today's hearing.
    Without objection, so ordered.
    We are here today to consider four legislative measures: 
H.R. 839, to prohibit the implementation of a land protection 
plan for Muleshoe National Wildlife Refuge, sponsored by 
Representative Arrington of Texas; H.R. 1809, the Great Lakes 
Fishery Research Reauthorization Act, sponsored by 
Representative Quigley of Illinois; the Cormorant Relief Act of 
2025, sponsored by Representative Ezell of Mississippi; and 
H.R. 2316, the Wetlands Conservation and Access Improvement 
Act, sponsored by Representative Hurd of the State of Colorado.
    I now recognize myself for a 5-minute opening statement.

  STATEMENT OF THE HON. HARRIET HAGEMAN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
               CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF WYOMING

    Ms. Hageman. Today the Subcommittee on Water, Wildlife and 
Fisheries will examine four bills that will foster good 
stewardship of taxpayer dollars, achieve better and more 
effective conservation outcomes, and provide necessary relief 
from predatory double-crested cormorants for aquacultural 
producers.
    Our first bill, sponsored by Congressman Arrington of 
Texas, would prevent the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service from 
implementing the Biden administration's land management plan 
for the Muleshoe National Wildlife Refuge in west Texas and 
eastern New Mexico. Under the auspices of the Biden 
administration's misguided 30x30 land grab initiative, the plan 
authorizes the Service to acquire up to 700,000 acres. This is 
more than a hundredfold increase in the size of the refuge that 
is currently 6,440 acres. If fully implemented, this one refuge 
would be larger than the entire land mass of the State of Rhode 
Island.
    Importantly, the refuge system in this country currently 
has over $2.6 billion in maintenance backlog needs. Yet, as is 
typical for Washington, D.C., rather than dedicating resources 
to address such maintenance needs, we had an administration 
that sought to make it exponentially worse by grabbing even 
more land under the Federal umbrella. Common sense says that, 
until this backlog is resolved, the Service should not increase 
its footprint by increasing the amount of land that it manages.
    The second bill under consideration is the Cormorant Relief 
Act, offered by Congressman Ezell of Mississippi, which would 
require the Service to reinstate the aquaculture depredation 
order for double-crested cormorants. This order was in place 
from 1998 until 2016, when it was vacated by a judge in 
response to yet another lawsuit.
    Double-crested cormorants are a water bird that are most 
common in the Great Lakes States and the southeast. They are 
opportunistic and intelligent predators. And to the surprise of 
absolutely no one, they often feed at aquaculture facilities 
where fish are easy to catch--a free lunch, so to speak. 
Through a variety of studies, it has been determined that 
predation from double-crested cormorants costs the aquaculture 
industry nearly $65 million annually in economic losses.
    The bill would streamline the permitting process to take 
double-crested cormorants while putting in place certain 
safeguards and accountability measures to ensure the species 
population health.
    The third bill we are considering is the Wetland 
Conservation and Access Improvement Act of 2025, offered by 
Congressman Hurd of the State of Colorado. The bill would 
extend the requirement in the Pittman-Robertson Wildlife 
Restoration Act, transferring the interest payments from 
unallocated Pittman-Robertson funds to the North American 
Wetlands Conservation Act, or NAWCA. NAWCA is one of the most 
successful conservation programs administered by the Federal 
Government. Nearly 34 million acres of wetland habitat across 
North America for migratory waterfowl have benefited from NAWCA 
projects.
    It is important to note that transferring the accrued 
interest does not take any money away from the Treasury. Under 
Pittman-Robertson these monies would have instead been 
allocated to States. The State fish and wildlife agencies 
through the Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies, however, 
are on record supporting this approach, further confirming its 
viability and effectiveness.
    Our fourth bill is the Great Lakes Fishery Research 
Reauthorization Act, sponsored by Congressman Quigley from 
Illinois. This bill would reauthorize the Great Lakes Fishery 
Research Program which is administered by the U.S. Geological 
Survey, or USGS. This program works in concert with the Great 
Lakes Fishery Commission to conduct research to support the 
binational fisheries within the Great Lakes Basin.
    I will note that once again the minority has chosen to 
ignore their own member's legislation, choosing instead to 
identify a witness to oppose a Republican bill, rather than a 
witness to testify as to the value of the Democrat bill before 
us. This trend is not surprising. Less than half of the 
legislative hearings last Congress had a witness expressing 
support for a minority-sponsored bill.
    With that I want to take the time to thank the witnesses 
for being here today, and I look forward to a robust 
conversation.
    I now recognize Ranking Member Hoyle for her opening 
statement.

 STATEMENT OF THE HON. VAL HOYLE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS 
                    FROM THE STATE OF OREGON

    Ms. Hoyle. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the 
witnesses that came here today.
    Today's agenda includes four bills that address 
conservation efforts, wildlife management, and environmental 
research. Some take important steps forward, while others 
undermine science-based conservation and decision-making.
    I also want to note that the Department of the Interior 
chose not to participate in today's hearing. This limits our 
ability to fully understand and assess the impact of these 
bills which also hurts our ability to make the best possible 
decisions.
    H.R. 2293 restores a policy allowing unlimited removal of 
double-crested cormorants. This policy was previously 
overturned by a court. Americans deserve sensible tools that 
help them manage predators like the double-crested cormorant 
that threaten their livelihoods. These birds can cause problems 
for aquaculture producers, so producers need to have lethal and 
non-lethal options for managing them. However, I am not sure 
what problem we are solving for here, especially when we don't 
see evidence to say that the current permit system isn't 
working.
    I will note again it is hard to talk about this issue 
without hearing from the Fish and Wildlife Service, which would 
be responsible for implementing this bill. I hope my colleagues 
will work with us to understand the agency's perspective on 
whether there is a problem here, and allow a discussion based 
on these facts and, if so, what an appropriate solution might 
be.
    Next is H.R. 839, which blocks the gradual expansion of 
Muleshoe National Wildlife Refuge in Texas. The Muleshoe 
National Wildlife Refuge had a public process to determine a 
new boundary area where the Fish and Wildlife Service can 
purchase land from willing sellers. My concern is this bill 
blocks landowners in that area from selling land or applying 
for conservation easements.
    It seems like government overreach to limit the ability of 
a private property owner to sell their private property just 
because it is for conservation purposes. I live across the 
street from land that was sold to the McKenzie River Land Trust 
to keep in conservation. The Siletz Tribe purchased 500 acres 
down the road from me to keep it in conservation and grow 
Indigenous plants. A willing buyer and a willing seller came to 
a deal. That is how it should be. Why should Congress weigh in 
and block that process? Again, I believe that is government 
overreach.
    H.R. 1809, introduced by Representative Quigley, provides 
much-needed support to fisheries science by reauthorizing 
funding for the United States Geological Survey's Great Lakes 
Fishery Research Program to continue its research supporting 
sustainable fisheries management like identifying and combating 
invasive species like the Asian carp and sea lamprey, 
conducting surveys for sports fish management, and monitoring 
impacts of harmful algae blooms on fisheries resources. I hope 
we can move this legislation forward quickly to markup and then 
into law. It is bipartisan, and it is a good bill, it should 
pass.
    Finally, H.R. 2316 extends the Interest Transfer Authority 
from the Pittman-Robertson Wildlife Restoration Fund to the 
North American Wetland Conservation Act Fund, helping to ensure 
that more resources are available for conservation efforts. 
NAWCA has strong bipartisan support. Since this program's 
inception, $2.1 billion of NAWCA funding has resulted in over 
4.3 billion additional investments in wetland conservation 
projects across almost 32 million acres of habitat. I support 
this bill and I would like to see it passed on the House floor.
    I don't know what the Senate is going to do. We never know 
what the Senate is going to do.
    I appreciate all of our witnesses here today who will help 
us understand the best ways to protect our wildlife, and why 
investing in conservation is crucial for all Americans. I look 
forward to the discussion.
    And I yield back.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you very much. I will now introduce our 
first panel.
    Oh, excuse me. There you are.
    Mr. Huffman. Good morning.
    Ms. Hageman. Good morning.
    I now recognize Ranking Member Huffman for his opening 
statement. Thank you.

   STATEMENT OF THE HON. JARED HUFFMAN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
             CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

    Mr. Huffman. Thank you, Madam Chair. And Madam Chair, I 
think you know that Democrats would love to have an additional 
witness so that we could actually have our witnesses speak to 
both the bills we support and, unfortunately, the bills that we 
must oppose. But when we are limited to one witness, we are 
kind of stuck. And so I would love it if you would go back to 
the practice that I did when I chaired this Committee, which 
was to reach out to the minority party and see if we could find 
some joint witnesses, where you wouldn't have to be jammed into 
this Hobson's choice. But until then, I guess we will have 
snarky comments about, you know, which witnesses the Democrats 
choose with their one lonely witness choice, and then I guess 
we will respond in kind by pointing out that the Republicans 
never want to call anyone from the administration to ever 
testify at their hearings, which is also a problem. But gosh, 
let's be better. Let's get beyond that kind of partisan stuff.
    We have four bills on the agenda today, and I want to focus 
on H.R. 839, a bill that, unfortunately, would block a 
carefully developed, community-supported land protection plan 
from the Fish and Wildlife Service for the Muleshoe National 
Wildlife Refuge in west Texas. And before we hear a lot of 
overheated rhetoric about land grabs, let's set some facts 
here.
    Fish and Wildlife Service cannot seize land. It cannot 
pressure landowners. It may only acquire land, water, or other 
interests from willing sellers. Full stop. There is no land 
grab. That is a fiction designed to stir outrage, not an honest 
reflection of reality.
    But here we are. My Republican colleagues have brought 
another bill rooted in the same old hollow narrative, where 
every conservation effort is cast as a government overreach and 
a conspiracy where public lands are treated like some kind of a 
looming threat instead of an intergenerational legacy. And the 
truth is just different. Mule Shoe Land Protection Plan is a 
science-based, voluntary initiative that offers landowners a 
new tool to manage their property while supporting 
conservation, if they choose. It is the product of years of 
research, listening sessions, and direct engagement with the 
very people who live and work in the region.
    And the plan doesn't restrict landowner rights. It expands 
them. It gives landowners a choice to conserve habitat for 
birds and wildlife, to be compensated for doing it, and to be 
part of something larger than their own fence lines. That is 
not a threat; it is a partnership, and it is exactly the kind 
of win-win conservation we should be lifting up, the kind that 
Republicans used to celebrate, and we shouldn't be tearing it 
down here today.
    That is especially true considering that the southern High 
Plains ecosystem that Muleshoe aims to conserve is one of the 
most threatened on the planet. Let's be clear. This isn't just 
about one refuge. The bill is part of a broader campaign by 
fringe organizations like American Stewards of Liberty, groups 
that specialize in fearmongering, misinformation, and 
dismantling environmental protections under the guise of 
defending freedom. And I say to my colleagues and to the 
communities watching, don't fall for it.
    The National Wildlife Refuge System is the world's largest 
network of lands and waters dedicated to conserving wildlife. 
These refuges are not just lines on a map; they are vital 
sanctuaries for migratory birds, endangered species, entire 
ecosystems that sustain our air, water, and climate. And for 
millions of Americans they are right next door.
    Our wildlife refuges are also economic engines. Refuges 
draw hunters, anglers, fishers, outdoor recreationalists, 
photographers, bird watchers, and tourists. They support local 
businesses, generate a lot of rural jobs, and increase county 
revenues. Many even incorporate agriculture because 
conservation and working lands don't have to be at odds. And 
that is why national wildlife refuges have long enjoyed 
bipartisan support. They are shaped by local voices, managed 
with State and community input, and built on a model of 
collaboration that works. Muleshoe is no exception. There 
landowners, hunters, conservationists, and residents have come 
together to protect a fragile and vital landscape. We are going 
to hear from one of those voices today, and we should be 
honoring that success, not politicizing and dismantling it. We 
should be expanding staffing and investing in the future of 
these places so that Americans, more Americans, can hunt, hike, 
farm, and enjoy them.
    So let's reject the fearmongering and the politics. Let's 
stand with communities, and let's do our part to preserve our 
Nation's special places for generations to come.
    I yield back.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. I will now introduce our first 
panel.
    As is typical with legislative hearings, the bills' 
sponsors are recognized for 5 minutes each to discuss their 
bills. I now recognize Congressman Ezell for 5 minutes.

STATEMENT OF THE HON. MIKE EZELL, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS 
                 FROM THE STATE OF MISSISSIPPI

    Mr. Ezell. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    For far too long catfish farmers in Mississippi, in the 
southeast region of the United States, have been plagued by the 
burden of permits and processes implemented by big government 
who bend the knee to radical environmental groups. These 
environmental groups are either unaware of how their policies 
affect the livelihood of everyday working-class Americans, or 
simply they just don't care.
    The double-breasted cormorant is a nuisance, plain and 
simple. They eat up to a pound-and-a-half of fish a day, and 
even the Fish and Wildlife Service has classified them as 
opportunists and generalist feeders that prey on many species 
of fish. Still, farmers must jump through hoops to prevent 
these birds from eating their stock.
    Aquaculture farmers have been struggling for years with the 
importation of non-domestic catfish. Now, because of one single 
liberal court ruling, our catfish community loses up to $64 
million annually. This loss is in addition to the burden of 
individual permits that is now in place of the national 
depredation order that existed for over a decade.
    My bill, H.R. 2293, the Cormorant Relief Act of 2025, 
reinstates the aquaculture depredation order to double-crested 
cormorants. This is nothing new. It is the same order that was 
easily reinstated in 2003, 2009, and 2014.
    Now, as a proud Mississippian, I am happy to welcome Mr. 
Chris McGlawn, an award-winning catfish farmer and the 
President of Catfish Farmers of Mississippi. Chris is a 
wonderful representation of the State of Mississippi and 
catfish farmers alike.
    Chris, thank you for making the trip to Washington and 
speaking here today on behalf of this bill, and I will have 
some questions at my time.
    And thank you, Madam Chairman, I yield back.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. I now recognize Congressman Hurd 
for 5 minutes.

 STATEMENT OF THE HON. JEFF HURD, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS 
                   FROM THE STATE OF COLORADO

    Mr. Hurd. Chairman Hageman, thank you very much for 
including my legislation, H.R. 2316, the Wetlands Conservation 
Access Improvement Act in today's hearing.
    I also want to thank the Committee staff for their support, 
and my colleague, Representative Elfreth, for joining me in 
leading this important bipartisan effort.
    H.R. 2316 is a straightforward, targeted update to the 
Pittman-Robertson Wildlife Restoration Act. This is a landmark 
1937 law that channels excise tax revenue from firearms, 
ammunition, and archery equipment into wildlife restoration, 
conservation, and hunter education.
    The bill simply extends the timeline for when the interest 
earned on these funds can be used to 2033, ensuring that more 
dollars will be available to support wetlands and waterfowl 
conservation projects through the North American Wetlands 
Conservation Act. That interest has averaged nearly $11 million 
a year since 2004, helping restore critical habitat and 
supporting healthy migratory bird populations across North 
America. This is a win for conservationists, and it is a win 
for sportsmen.
    American sportsmen have long been among our Nation's 
greatest conservation advocates. This bill ensures their 
contributions continue to make a lasting impact on the lands 
and habitats that they care so deeply about.
    In addition, Madam Chairwoman, I would ask for unanimous 
consent to enter a letter from the North American Wetlands 
Conservation Council and a letter signed by 13 sportsmen and 
conservation groups in support of my legislation into the 
record.
    Ms. Hageman. Without objection, so ordered.

    [The information follows:]
                                                 March 31, 2025    

Hon. Bruce Westerman, Chairman
House Natural Resources Committee
1324 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515

    Dear Chairman Bruce Westerman,

    Members of the North American Wetlands Conservation Council urge 
you to support legislation (H.R. 2316) that would allow the investment 
interest from the Pittman-Robertson Funds (P-R Funds) to continue to be 
used for the North American Wetlands Conservation Fund (NAWCF).
    As a part of the funding for the North American Wetlands 
Conservation Act (NAWCA), the earned interest from the investment of P-
R Funds is deposited into NAWCF annually. These funds are used in the 
normal grant-making process for NAWCA. During the past 10 years, the 
NAWCF has received an average of $30 million per year in earned 
interest from the P-R Fund, though the actual amount fluctuates 
annually. This critical provision of the Federal Aid in Wildlife 
Restoration Act of 1937 (Pittman-Robertson Act) must be reauthorized 
before it expires on September 30, 2025 (the sunset of the 10-year 
authorization).
    Under the Pittman-Robertson Act, excise taxes collected on certain 
hunting equipment are deposited into the P-R Fund and are available, 
without further appropriation, to States. The Pittman-Robertson Act 
requires that interest earned on balances in that fund be used to 
finance wetland conservation projects authorized under NAWCA. It is 
important to note because the interest earnings are spent without 
further appropriation, the Congressional Budget Office has historically 
determined that enacting this legislation would have no net effect on 
Federal spending and ``scores'' as revenue neutral. The interest from 
the P-R Funds, when matched by our growing list of partners, creates an 
additional $60 million annually, for a total of $90 million, in on-the-
ground meaningful and measurable wetlands conservation. Unlike the 
yearly NAWCF appropriation, the Pittman-Robertson portion of the 
funding cannot be allocated without this important reauthorization. 
Furthermore, in 2024, the Association of State Fish and Wildlife 
Agencies passed a resolution supporting the continued flow of this 
interest into the NAWCF rather than to their states through the 
apportionment process.
    Please find below signatures from non-federal Council members 
thanking you, in advance, for your consideration and support.

            Sincerely,

        Ms. Judith Camuso, 
        Commissioner, 
        Maine Department of Inland 
        Fisheries and Wildlife

                                      Mr. Mark W. Elsbree, Senior VP, 
                                      Western Region, 
                                      The Conservation Fund Wildlife

        Ms. Wendy Jackson, 
        Land Trust Alliance

                                      Mr. Marshall Johnson, Chief 
                                      Conservation Officer, 
                                      National Audubon Society

        Mr. Ronald Leathers, Jr., 
        Chief Conservation Officer, 

        Pheasants Forever

                                      Dr. Kelly Straka, Director Fish 
                                      and Wildlife, Minnesota 
                                      Department of Natural Resources

        Dr. Karen Waldrop, Chief 
        Conservation Officer, 
        Ducks Unlimited, Inc.

                                      Mr. Jeb Williams, Vice Chair and 
                                      Director, North Dakota Game and 
                                      Fish Department

                                 ______
                                 

    Mr. Hurd. Thank you. I look forward to hearing from our 
witness, Mr. Anderson, today and working with all of you to 
advance this common-sense legislation through the Committee 
process.
    And with that I yield back.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. I now recognize Congressman Quigley 
for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Quigley. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Hageman. Welcome.

    STATEMENT OF THE HON. MIKE QUIGLEY, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
              CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

    Mr. Quigley. Thank you for having me and for considering 
the bill, the Great Lakes Fishery Research Reauthorization Act.
    First I would like to thank my colleague, Representative 
Bill Huizenga, for his work on this bill and other issues 
important to the Great Lakes.
    The Great Lakes are a natural wonder of the world in every 
sense: they contain 20 percent of the world's fresh water; 40 
million people in the U.S. and Canada rely on the Great Lakes 
for clean drinking water. But to get to the real issues at 
hand, we are here today to talk about the Great Lakes 
fisheries. The total value of commercial, recreational, and 
tribal fishing in the Great Lakes is at least $5 billion. The 
industry supports an estimated 75,000 jobs across the region.
    Research into the Great Lakes fishery provides us with data 
and information necessary to manage fish populations, conduct 
habitat maintenance, roll out educational programs, and more. 
For the last 5 years this authorized program has provided funds 
for the U.S. Geological Survey and, more specifically, the 
Great Lakes Science Center to conduct scientific research and 
invest in new technology.
    My bill is a flat reauthorization of this program at 15 
million per year through 2030. Researchers across the region 
rely on this data collected over decades to analyze trends, and 
reauthorizing this program will allow the Great Lakes Science 
Center to continue its research and provide data sets that are 
stable and reliable into the future.
    To underscore the importance of this program, I thought I 
would bring an illustration of the problem.
    [Slide]
    Mr. Quigley. You may have noticed the poster behind me. 
This is a sea lamprey. If this graphic doesn't convince you 
that we don't want these suckers in the Great Lakes, I am not 
sure what will. Their suction cup clamps on to our native fish 
and feeds on them, kind of like a giant great leech. One sea 
lamprey can kill 40 pounds of Great Lakes fish over a 12 to 18-
month feeding period. And that is just one of the threats that 
we are currently up against.
    In the 1950s the U.S. and Canada established the Great 
Lakes Fishery Commission to shore up our shared fisheries. 
Decades of over-fishing, invasive species like the sea lamprey, 
and human impact on the lakes threatened the over 130 native 
species. There are over 20 fish species that have gone extinct 
in the Great Lakes over the last 2 centuries, and 61 species 
are currently threatened or endangered. For all those in the 
region who depend on the fishery for food, livelihood and 
sport, it is critical that we continue to monitor the Great 
Lakes and our native fish species.
    Before this program was authorized 5 years ago, the USGS 
had pieced together funding from many different buckets to 
support this research. USGS and the Great Lakes Science Center 
had lagged far behind their peers in introducing 21st century 
technology to properly and effectively monitor the lakes. This 
patchwork funding model led to instability in the research 
programs and pulled resources from other programs. The Great 
Lakes Science Center is the only agency that conducts multi-
jurisdictional, lake-wide scientific assessments, and it is 
crucial to protect and preserve this incredible resource and 
economic driver.
    The Great Lakes Science Center has field operations in five 
of the eight Great Lakes states. It owns and operates a fleet 
of large research vessels that monitor the lakes and the 
fishery to ensure these crucial ecosystems stay healthy and 
productive. This bipartisan bill is about supporting the 
science needed to protect, sustain, and improve the 
economically indispensable and ecologically unique Great Lakes 
fishery.
    Madam Chair, it has been talked about, the conflicts we 
have and disagreements we have. But there are so many reasons 
that we need to maintain the fishery for economic reasons, job 
reasons, natural reasons. These are the common grounds that we 
need to work with together, because they are important for 
reasons that we all care about. And I truly thank you for the 
time today.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you, and thank you for joining us. These 
are important issues.
    I now recognize Congressman Arrington for 5 minutes.
    Thank you for joining us today.

  STATEMENT OF THE HON. JODEY ARRINGTON, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
                CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS

    Mr. Arrington. I thank the Chairlady and Ranking Member for 
the opportunity to waive on to this Committee. I am a little 
out of breath because I am out of shape, for the record.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Arrington. And we Ways and Means guys don't move around 
as much as you all do.
    I am honored to be in the presence of two great men from 
west Texas, and to have a little slice of God's country right 
here in the Nation's capital. And so I give a hearty welcome to 
fourth-generation farmer, Mr. Bryan Baker and Mr. John Roley, 
who is a successful car dealer. Both of them love this country, 
both of them are proud, rural Americans, but they are on 
different sides of this issue, Madam Chair, and that is 
healthy. I mean, this is what this process is all for, robust 
debate and this democratic process.
    But private property rights, I think we all would agree, is 
a cornerstone of our free society and central to the free 
enterprise system that has blessed our Nation with unparalleled 
prosperity. Here is my point, and here is my position on this 
for the people of west Texas who I represent, recognizing there 
are different views: the Federal Government, as my dad would 
put it, needs more public land like I need another hole in my 
head.
    This 30x30 initiative, where we somehow think it is a good 
idea for the Federal Government to own a third of the land in 
these great United States, after all we have witnessed and 
experienced over the recent years where the levers of power in 
this city have been weaponized against landowners from the 
1,500 miles of rivers because of some endangered species, where 
by now those waters are not able to be utilized for irrigation 
to feed and clothe American people. I have seen the Mexican 
mussel listed so that Texas couldn't put buoy barriers to 
defend itself when their Federal Government failed to do its 
job to provide for a common defense. I could go through a 
litany of grievances from Waters of the U.S. and down the line 
where the Federal Government infringed, I believe, on our 
liberties.
    But as the Budget Chairman, we are $36 trillion in debt. We 
have world war levels of indebtedness. We are $2 trillion 
borrowing on the backs of our children every year, and we are 
paying now more in interest than we spend in all of national 
defense. And somehow we think we need to spend more money on 
behalf of the taxpayers to buy up more land that we don't 
manage. We don't manage the land we have well, Madam Chair, and 
that causes problems.
    And so there are, as I said, a litany of reasons why I 
think it is a bad idea. I think our private property owners 
like Mr. Roley and everybody else should be able to buy 
whatever property they want and transact how they please with 
their money. But I am a fiduciary of tax dollars on behalf of 
the United States citizens from every State in the Union, and I 
think it is tremendously wasteful and unnecessary to use it to 
buy up more Federal lands.
    So that is my strong position. A 10,000 percent increase in 
a wildlife refuge on the plains of west Texas, 10,000 percent 
increase? Like a hole in our head.
    I yield.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you, Mr. Arrington. I understand your 
position. I come from a State where 48 percent of the surface 
estate is owned by the Federal Government. Last year we had 
catastrophic forest fires, losing a total, between the forest 
fires and prairie fires, over 800,000 acres. We need a Federal 
Government that is more responsive and responsible in managing 
the resources they already have, not adding to that. So I 
appreciate your perspective here today.
    I want to thank the members for your testimony, and I am 
now going to introduce our second panel.
    Mr. Chris McGlawn, President of Delta Cat Fisheries in 
Greenwood, Mississippi.
    Mr. John Roley, a landowner in Lubbock, Texas.
    Mr. Bryan Baker, President of the Board of Directors for 
the Texas Producers Cooperative in Sudan, Texas.
    And Mr. Mikk Anderson, a Board Member and Colorado 
Volunteer State Policy Chair of Ducks Unlimited in Aurora.
    Let me remind the witnesses that, under Committee rules, 
they must limit their oral statements to 5 minutes, but their 
entire statement will appear in the hearing record.
    To begin your testimony please press the button on the 
microphone.
    And we use timing lights. When you begin the light will 
turn green. When you have 1 minute left it will turn yellow, 
and at the end of the 5 minutes the light will turn red and I 
will ask you to please complete your statement.
    I will also allow all witnesses to testify before the 
members begin their questions.
    I now recognize Mr. McGlawn for 5 minutes.

  STATEMENT OF CHRIS McGLAWN, PRESIDENT, DELTA CAT FISHERIES, 
                     GREENWOOD, MISSISSIPPI

    Mr. McGlawn. Chair Hageman, Ranking Member Hoyle, and 
members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to 
testify today in support of H.R. 2293, the Cormorant Relief Act 
of 2025.
    As a lifelong catfish farmer I have firsthand experience 
with the challenges faced by catfish farmers, particularly the 
economic and operational burden imposed by double-crested 
cormorants.
    I also want to thank Representative Ezell, Representative 
Thompson, and the other sponsors of this bill for bringing 
forward this common-sense approach to helping fish farmers 
while also helping the Fish and Wildlife Service better manage 
healthy migratory bird population.
    Our family catfish farm of 450 acres is located in 
Humphreys County, Mississippi. We are truly a family operation, 
with my wife and my two children working along with me. It is 
more than just a job for us; it is our life. I can say with 
confidence that this is much of the same throughout the catfish 
country.
    The current system of individual depredation permits is 
inefficient, costly, and fails to provide timely relief to 
farmers. Restoring the national depredation order would allow 
for better management of bird problems, reduce financial strain 
on both farmers and the Fish and Wildlife Service.
    Catfish farming is an economically intensive endeavor. This 
bill will restore a more efficient approach to managing bird 
depredation of fish farms.
    Catfish farming is a capital-intensive industry, requiring 
significant investment in infrastructure, feed, labor, and 
disease management. The average cost of production for farm-
raised catfish averages around $1.10 a pound, depending on 
factors such as feed prices, water management, and labor costs. 
Feed alone accounts for 50 percent of total production cost. 
Additionally, labor cost, water quality management, disease 
prevention, and bird harassment create additional cost.
    Despite these high costs, catfish farmers must compete in a 
volatile market where price fluctuates, import of seafood 
competition and regulatory hurdles impact profitability. The 
added burden of cormorant depredation further strains farm 
operations, making it imperative to implement cost-effective 
bird management strategies.
    Beyond financial constraints, catfish farmers face numerous 
operational challenges. Maintaining optimum oxygen levels 
requires constant monitoring and investment both day and night. 
Rising commodity prices impact feed affordability, making cost 
reduction strategies essential.
    And finally, bird depredation is a constant challenge on 
catfish farms, including my own. These birds can consume up to 
a pound-and-a-half of fish per day, which could be anywhere 
from 10 to 30 fish per day. Cormorants typically fly in large 
groups of 50 to 200 birds per flock. Without constant pressure 
and harassment, we could lose thousands of catfish in just a 
few short days. This leads to millions of dollars in both 
losses and increased costs associated with harassing birds 
annually.
    In addition, disease outbreak spreads rapidly and are often 
complicated by wild bird activity on catfish farm. The average 
catfish farm spends $285 per acre on harassment measures, 
including labor, vehicle expense, and infrastructure 
maintenance. The cost to the catfish industry related to the 
bird depredation can be as high as $64 million annually.
    Despite these efforts, harassment alone does not completely 
resolve the problem. Under the current system of individual 
permits, each catfish farmer is required to make an application 
to the Fish and Wildlife Service for an individual permit to 
take a certain number of cormorants. Fish and Wildlife Service 
must administer and approve or deny each application with 
varying numbers of take birds. This creates a patchwork of 
guessing by Fish and Wildlife Service, where the main problems 
will occur in a given year. For example, I might not have as 
much of a challenge with cormorants next year, but my neighbor 
a few miles down the road could be covered up with birds. He 
won't have enough to take under his permit, while I have more 
than I need.
    Individual permits also require unneeded inefficiencies for 
Fish and Wildlife Service in administering thousands of 
individual permits, as opposed to a national order which allows 
for the same monitoring and protection of the overall health of 
the cormorant population while allowing Fish and Wildlife 
Services to use limited resources in critical areas. Under a 
national depredation order, farmers are still required to keep 
track of take numbers, and Fish and Wildlife Service must work 
with USDA wildlife services to adequate population number of 
cormorants to ensure no harm comes to the overall health of the 
species.
    It is important to note, as part of this application 
process, farmers are required to have in place an approved bird 
harassment plan. We rely on harassment techniques such as noise 
cannons, pyrotechnics, and constant patrol to deter cormorants. 
This will not change under our national depredation order. It 
will always be a last resort to take a problem bird.
    More than 85 percent of U.S. seafood is imported. The 
seafood trade deficit is the $25 billion annually. Domestic 
aquaculture needs all the assistance we can get. This bill does 
not have anything to do with trade, but it does fix an unneeded 
layer of regulation of U.S. catfish farmers. The Cormorant 
Relief Tax presents a common-sense solution to challenges faced 
by catfish farmers and other farmers throughout the U.S.
    By restoring a national depredation order, producers can 
reduce operational costs, improve disease control, and enhance 
farm sustainability. I urge the Committee to support this 
legislation, ensure that farmers have the tools necessary to 
safeguard their livelihood and strengthen the U.S. seafood 
industry.
    Thank you for your time, and I welcome any questions from 
the Committee.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. McGlawn follows:]
            Prepared Statement of Chris McGlawn, President, 
                     Catfish Farmers of Mississippi

Introduction
    Chair Hageman, Ranking Member Hoyle, and Members of the 
Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today in support 
of H.R. 2293, The Cormorant Relief Act of 2025. I also want to thank 
Rep. Ezell, Rep. Thompson and the other sponsors of this bill for 
bringing forward this commonsense approach to helping fish farmers 
while also helping U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) better manage 
healthy migratory bird populations.
    As a lifelong catfish farmer, I have firsthand experience with the 
challenges faced by catfish farmers, particularly the economic and 
operational burdens imposed by double-crested cormorants. Our family 
catfish farm of about 450 acres is located in LeFlore County, MS. We 
are truly a family operation with my wife and two children working 
together on the farm. It is more than a job for us, it is our life. I 
can say with confidence that this is much the same throughout catfish 
country.
    The current system of individual depredation permits is inefficient 
and fails to provide timely relief to farmers. Restoring a national 
depredation order would allow for better management of problem birds, 
reducing financial strain on both farmers and the FWS. Catfish farming 
is an economically intensive endeavor. This bill would restore a more 
efficient approach to managing bird depredation on fish farms.
The Economic Realities and Challenges of Catfish Farming
    Catfish farming is a capital-intensive industry, requiring 
significant investment in infrastructure, feed, labor, and disease 
management. The average cost of production for farm-raised catfish 
averages around $1.10 per pound or $10,000 per water acre, depending on 
factors such as feed prices, water management, and labor costs.
    Despite these high costs, catfish farmers must compete in a 
volatile market where price fluctuations, imported seafood competition, 
and regulatory hurdles impact profitability. The added burden of 
cormorant depredation further strains farm operations, making it 
imperative to implement cost-effective bird management strategies.
    Beyond financial constraints, catfish farmers face numerous 
operational challenges. Maintaining optimal oxygen levels, pH balance, 
and ammonia control require constant monitoring and investment both day 
and night. Rising commodity prices impact feed affordability, making 
cost reduction strategies essential.
    Bird depredation is a constant challenge and cost on catfish farms, 
including my own. These birds consume up to 1.5/lb. of fish or 10-30 
fish per day. Cormorants fly in large groups of 50-200 birds per flock. 
Without constant pressure and harassment we can lose thousands of 
catfish in just a few short days. This leads to millions of dollars in 
both losses and increased costs associated with harassing birds 
annually. In addition, cormorants cause disease outbreaks on farms that 
spread rapidly and can wipe out an entire pond.
    The average catfish farmer spends $285 per acre on harassment 
measures, including labor, vehicle expenses, and infrastructure 
maintenance. The cost to the catfish industry related to bird 
depredation can be as high as $65 million annually. Despite these 
efforts, harassment alone does not completely resolve the problem.
Individual Permits vs. National Order
    Under the current system of individual permits, each catfish farmer 
is required to apply to FWS for an annual individual permit to take a 
certain number of cormorants. FWS must administer and approve or deny 
each application with varying take numbers, based in large part to 
previous year's data. This creates a patchwork of guessing by FWS on 
where the main problems will occur each year. For example, I might not 
have much of a challenge with cormorants next year but my neighbor a 
few miles away may experience constant bird pressure on his farm. He 
won't have enough take under his permit while I have much more than I 
need.
    Individual permits also require unneeded inefficiencies for FWS in 
administering thousands of individual permits. A national order allows 
for the same monitoring and protection of the overall health of the 
cormorant population while targeting limited FWS resources in more 
critical areas. Under a depredation order, farmers are still required 
to keep accurate take numbers and FWS must work with USDA Wildlife 
Services to keep adequate population numbers for cormorants to ensure 
no harm comes to the overall health of the species.
    It is important to note, as part of the application process, 
farmers are required to have in place an approved bird harassment plan. 
Farmers rely on harassment techniques such as noise cannons, 
pyrotechnics, and constant patrols to deter cormorants. This will not 
change under a depredation order. It is always a last resort to take 
problem birds.
    A national depredation order would allow for targeted removal of 
problem birds, significantly reducing costs and improving management 
efficiency. By eliminating bureaucratic delays associated with 
individual permits, farmers could respond immediately to bird threats 
protecting their fish and reducing disease transmission that can create 
additional losses.
Conclusion
    This bill is a win-win for both farmers and FWS. The Cormorant 
Relief Act presents a common-sense solution to the challenges faced by 
catfish farmers and other fish farmers throughout the U.S. By restoring 
a national depredation order, producers can reduce operational costs, 
improve disease control, and enhance farm sustainability. I urge the 
Committee to support this legislation, ensuring that farmers have the 
tools necessary to safeguard their livelihoods and strengthen the U.S. 
seafood industry.
    Thank you for your time. I welcome any questions from the 
Committee.

                                 ______
                                 

    Ms. Hageman. Thank you, Mr. McGlawn. I now recognize Mr. 
Roley for 5 minutes.

 STATEMENT OF JOHN ROLEY, LANDOWNER, LUBBOCK COUNTY, LUBBOCK, 
                             TEXAS

    Mr. Roley. Madam Chair, Ms. Ranking Member, and members of 
the Committee, thank you for the opportunity for allowing me to 
be here today. It is my honor.
    My name is John Roley. I worked in the Littlefield, Texas 
area for more than 45 years. I was a successful car dealer, and 
I am an active rancher in the Littlefield area. I own 3,800 
acres of land in Hockley, Bailey and Lamb County, Texas, and 
have always been a thoughtful steward of the land. For example, 
I was recently recognized as a Lone Star Land Steward for my 
work I have done on my Little Las Vegas property, where I have 
restored nearly 1,400 acres back to native habitats which have 
helped the local species flourish there. I have made efforts to 
make my land accessible for hunting and for educational 
activities.
    My 2,200-acre Little Las Vegas Ranch sits on the eastern 
edge of the Yellow House Draw, an area described by Francisco 
Coronado in 1542 as the Casa Amarillas, due to the low yellow 
hills. The property is home to numerous quail, Texas horned 
lizards, mule deer, and whitetail deer. The property is grazed 
on an as-needed basis through our periodic droughts, and is 
leased for hunting.
    The first 380 acres I acquired were planted back to native 
grasses and wildflowers with funds intended to help preserve 
the lesser prairie chicken population in the area. Since then, 
additional restoration of old crop lands have resulted in the 
establishment of more than 1,000 acres of native habitat across 
the landscape. In addition, the restoration of multiple playa 
lakes, or playa wetlands, on the property has enhanced its 
usability for ducks, cranes, geese, and migrating birds.
    The ranch has undertaken multiple efforts to make the 
property more suitable for wildlife, and by allowing 4H groups 
access, Littlefield Independent School outdoor education 
opportunities, and an all women's and new hunter dove hunt. In 
addition, the ranch allows access for dove trapping and banding 
conducted by Texas Wildlife Department.
    I am also a Republican, a strong, staunch advocate of 
private property rights. In my mind no one, and particularly 
not the Federal Government, should have the right to tell me 
what property I can sell or cannot sell. It is a fundamental 
part of our rights in America to retain freedom to do with the 
land as we see fit. Whether it is I sell it for conservation or 
development, landowners should be free to use or develop their 
property as they see fit and should not be told by another 
party that I may sell or give an interest in my land if I so 
choose. That is important to me, being an American, being what 
American is all about. And frankly, it is why I am here today 
to oppose H.R. 839 that would prohibit the implementation of 
the land protection plan for the Muleshoe National Wildlife 
Refuge.
    After going through a public process and consulting with 
partners nearly a year ago, the Service released its final 
findings. The updated plan made for a significantly larger 
boundary for the Service, aiming to conserve 700,000 acres. 
This broad landscape approach enables the Service to work with 
landowners on a voluntary basis and address the significant 
changes of habitat fragmentation and other impacts across the 
landscape of the southern High Plains. The land is to protect 
the beautiful animals like the sandhill crane and pronghorn.
    Congress should not be in the business of telling 
landowners to whom they can sell or donate their land to. If I 
want to sell my land to an oil company, a developer, or the 
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, that is my right to. This bill 
would unfairly restrict that. The rights of other Americans to 
exercise the control over their lands, I believe, is a bad 
policy, and would represent an infringement on my property 
rights.
    The thing that is so critical on this, it is volunteer, and 
you can do an easement or you can sell it. You don't have to go 
all in. There are a lot of attributes to this land, and I 
believe that is that is why I am for it. You can make your own 
decision. That is what I am all about. Thank you so very much.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Roley follows:]
                    Prepared Statement of John Roley

    Mr. Chairman, Mr. Ranking Member and members of the Committee, 
thank you for the opportunity to testify at this hearing today.
    My name is John Roley, and I worked in the Littlefield area of 
Texas for more than 45 years. I had a successful career in the 
automotive industry and am an active rancher in the Littlefield area.
    I own 3,800 acres of land in Hockley, Bailey and Lamb County Texas, 
and have always been a thoughtful steward of the land. For example, I 
was recently recognized as a Lone Star Land Steward for the work I have 
done on my Little Las Vegas Ranch property where I have restored nearly 
1,400 acres back to native habitats which have helped local species 
flourish there, and I've made efforts to make the land accessible for 
hunting and educational activities.
    My 2,200-acre Little Las Vegas Ranch sits on the eastern edge of 
the Yellowhouse Draw, an area described by Francisco de Coronado in 
1542 as the ``Casa de Amarillos'' due to the low yellow hills. The 
property is home to numerous quail, Texas horned lizards, mule deer and 
white-tailed deer. The property is grazed on an as needed basis to 
manage the periodic regional droughts and is leased for hunting. The 
first 380 acres acquired were planted back to native grasses and 
wildflowers with funds intended to help preserve the lesser prairie 
chicken population in the area.
    Since then, additional restoration on old crop fields has resulted 
in the re-establishment of more than 1,000 acres of native habitat 
across the landscape. In addition, the restoration of multiple playa 
wetlands on the property has enhanced its usability for ducks, cranes, 
geese and other migrating birds. The ranch has undertaken multiple 
efforts to make the property more suitable for wildlife while also 
allowing access to 4-H groups, Littlefield Independent School District 
outdoor education opportunities and an all-women's and new hunter dove 
hunt. In addition, the ranch allows access for dove trapping and 
banding conducted by TPWD.
    I am also a Republican, a Trump supporter and staunch advocate of 
private property rights. In my mind, no one, and particularly not the 
federal government, should have the right to tell a private property 
owner who they can or cannot sell their land to. It is a fundamental 
part of our property rights system in America to retain the freedom to 
do with my land as I see fit. Whether that is to sell it for 
conservation or development. Landowners should be free to use or 
develop their property as they see fit and should not be told by any 
other party who to I may sell or given an interest in my land to, if I 
so choose. That's an important part of what being an American is about.
    And frankly that is why I am here today to oppose the bill HR 839 
that would prohibit the implementation of the Land Protection Plan for 
the Muleshoe National Wildlife Refuge. After going through a public 
process and consulting with partners, nearly one year ago the Service 
released the final Land Protection Plan for the refuge.
    The updated plan made a significantly larger acquisition boundary 
for the Service, aiming to help conserve up to 700,000 acres of land. 
This broader, landscape approach enables the Service to work with 
landowners on a voluntary basis to address the significant challenges 
of habitat fragmentation and other impacts across the landscape in the 
Southern High Plains. This plan will also help protect important and 
beautiful animals like the sandhill crane and pronghorn.
    Most important of all, the plan also respects the rights of private 
property owners within the new acquisition boundary. The Service has 
been very clear that any acquisitions of private lands for ownership or 
easement purposes would be on a voluntary basis with willing sellers. 
As a landowner, I see this as an opportunity, not a threat, to support 
the maintenance of these lands, places and species that I care so 
deeply about.
    H.R. 839 would restrict my ability to donate, either the fee or an 
easement interest, my property to the Fish and Wildlife Service. This 
bill impedes my ability to take action to be a positive part of 
conservation across the Southern High Plains. And more importantly, 
this bill infringes on my right as a landowning American to sell or 
donate my property to whomever I please.
    Congress should not be in the business of telling landowners to 
whom they can or cannot sell or donate their land. If I wanted to 
donate or sell my land to an oil company, a developer, or to the U.S. 
Fish and Wildlife Service, that is my right to do so. This bill would 
unfairly restrict that right, and the rights of other Americans to 
exercise their own control over their own lands. I believe this bill is 
bad policy and, if enacted, would represent an infringement on my 
rights as a property owner.

                                 ______
                                 

    Ms. Hageman. Thank you for your testimony. I now recognize 
Mr. Baker for 5 minutes.

  STATEMENT OF BRYAN BAKER, PRESIDENT, BOARD OF DIRECTORS FOR 
           TEXAS PRODUCERS COOPERATIVE, SUDAN, TEXAS

    Mr. Baker. Good morning, Chairwoman Hageman, Ranking Member 
Hoyle, distinguished members. I would like to begin by thanking 
you for allowing me to testify on behalf of H.R. 839, 
introduced by Representative Arrington, and to share my story 
with you today.
    My name is Bryan Baker. I live in the west Texas panhandle 
in a small town called Sudan, Texas, and I am a fourth-
generation cotton farmer. After graduating from Texas Tech 
University with a degree in agricultural economics, I moved 
back home and started farming with my dad and granddad. I farm 
around 3,500 acres and I still farm some land that my great-
granddad broke out of natural grass in the early 1900s. I am 
very proud to still be able to work that land. I have two step-
kids, Libby and Austin, and I am very honored to be part of 
their lives.
    In addition to being a farmer, I also serve on several 
boards, including the Board of Directors for Texas Producers 
Cooperative Gin, or TPC, where I have been the Board President 
since 2016. TPC represents 492 patron farmers, and I am their 
voice today, as well. TPC consists of two cotton ginning 
plants, an insurance company with two locations, a fertilizer 
chemical agronomy division. We have a fully stocked farm supply 
store, a tire shop, a mechanic's shop, fuel division, and even 
a barber shop. TPC employs 43 full-time employees, and we add 
48 seasonal employees during our cotton harvest time. Many of 
these seasonal employees are lower-income individuals, and are 
dependent on this seasonal work, which for several makes up the 
majority of their annual income.
    Texas Producers Co-op, on average, returns $2 to $2.5 
million to our patrons in the form of a dividend. Most of that 
profit is coming from local cotton, being gin. Most of these 
funds, which are returned to the producers, remain in our local 
community and are the lifeblood of our area. When farmers 
thrive, the economy thrives.
    The footprint of TPC's patrons extends approximately 60 
miles in all directions from Sudan, with a large portion 
falling into the Biden administration's 30x30 land acquisition 
plan. As shown in the Muleshoe National Wildlife Refuge Land 
Protection Plan, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service approved a 
plan that would use taxpayer money to acquire an estimated 
700,000 acres of west Texas land.
    If some or all of these 700,000 acres are removed from the 
farming production, an area roughly the size of the State of 
Rhode Island, it will cause a ripple effect that will be 
irreversible, as these acres will be permanently removed from 
production. This ripple effect will not only be devastating to 
the farmers and employees of Texas Producers Co-op, but also 
the many local businesses, including banks, grocery stores, and 
restaurants.
    Local schools, the heartbeat of these small towns, will 
also be impacted. Sudan Independent School District, a national 
Blue Ribbon school, is one of the schools that falls under this 
land grab. Sudan ISD has one of the largest school districts in 
the South Plains, and it covers approximately 583 square miles. 
There are currently around 450 students, 46 teachers, and 79 
total staff employed. According to Scott Harrell, Sudan ISD 
Superintendent, Sudan ISD has an annual revenue of a little 
more than $7,362,000, and spends approximately $17,000 per 
student. With 700,000 acres potentially being vacated from 
private landowners and taxpayers, there will be multiple 
economic losses, including the reduction in the number of 
teachers, bus drivers, and staff, as fewer children be enrolled 
in the local schools. After all, there will be nobody left to 
live and farm on these lost acres.
    My family has called Sudan home for over 100 years, so 
there is an emotional aspect to this expansion for me. My 
mother taught fourth grade for 40 years in Sudan. My sister has 
taught second grade in Sudan for 20 years. I have two nephews, 
Cal and Nick, who attend Sudan ISD today, and I am fighting for 
them to always have a place to come home to and be able to call 
it home.
    Congressman Arrington understands the destructive impact 
this plan will have not only on Sudan and our region, but on 
Texas and the entire United States. Because if a 700,000-acre 
land expansion is allowed to happen in Texas, where the entire 
State is over 95 percent privately owned, it can happen 
anywhere.
    I am very honored to be here today, and this is why I 
support H.R. 839, to defend the way of life that I and 
thousands of hard-working west Texans call home. I look forward 
to your questions.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Baker follows:]
 Prepared Statement of Bryan Baker, President, Board of Directors for 
               Texas Producers Cooperative, Sudan, Texas

    Good morning, Chairwoman Hageman, Ranking Member Hoyle, 
distinguished members,
    I would like to begin by thanking you for allowing me to testify on 
behalf of H.R. 839, introduced by Representative Arrington, and to 
share my story here today. My name is Bryan Baker. I live in the West 
Texas Panhandle in a small town called Sudan, TX, and I am a fourth-
generation cotton farmer. I have lived in Sudan my entire life, except 
for the few years I spent at Texas Tech University, where I received a 
bachelor's degree in Agricultural Economics and Applied Sciences. After 
graduating from Texas Tech, I moved back home and started farming with 
my dad and granddad. I farm around 3,500 acres and still farm some land 
that my great granddad broke out of the shortgrass prairie of blue 
grama and buffalo grass in the early 1900s. I am very proud to be still 
able to work that land. I have two step kids, Libby and Austin, and I 
am very proud to be a part of their lives.
    In addition to being a farmer, I also serve on several boards, 
including the board of directors for Texas Producers Cooperative Gin 
(TPC), where I have been the board president since 2016. TPC represents 
492 patron farmers, and I am their voice today as well. TPC has several 
businesses to serve its farmers, helping them remain competitive in 
today's challenging economic environment. It consists of two cotton 
ginning plants--one located in Sudan, TX, and the other in Amherst, TX. 
TPC owns an insurance company that serves its patrons at two locations. 
The first in Sudan and the other in Littlefield, TX. TPC has a 
fertilizer and chemical sales division that is fully staffed with 
agronomic advisors to provide the latest information on use rates and 
the efficacy of products on the market. This best-in-class agronomy 
enables our patrons to make informed decisions for their fields and 
crops, becoming outstanding stewards of their land. TPC also features a 
fully stocked farm supply store, a tire repair and sales division, a 
mechanic shop, a fuel sales division, and even a barber shop.
    TPC employs 43 full-time employees, and we add 48 seasonal 
employees during our cotton harvest time, who provide the labor for the 
cotton ginning plants. Many of these seasonal employees are lower-
income individuals and are dependent on this seasonal work, which for 
several makes up the majority of their annual income. This seasonal 
work typically happens between October and late January.
    TPC, on average, returns $2.0-$2.5 million to our patrons in the 
form of a dividend, based on the profit of the various businesses. Most 
of that profit is coming from local cotton ginning plants processing 
our patrons' cotton. Most of these funds, which are returned to the 
producers, remain in our local community and are the lifeblood of our 
area. When farmers thrive, the local economy thrives.
    The footprint of the TPC's patrons extends approximately 60 miles 
in all directions from Sudan, with a large portion falling into the 
Biden Administration's 30x30 land acquisition plan. As shown in the 
Muleshoe National Wildlife Refuge Land Protection Plan, the U.S. Fish 
and Wildlife Service approved a plan that would use taxpayer money to 
acquire an estimated 700,000 acres of West Texas land. It is clear how 
this overreach by the Federal Government and its intended land grab 
would be detrimental to Texas farmers and ranchers, in addition to our 
entire local economy.
    If some or all these 700,000 acres are removed from farming 
production, an area roughly the size of the state of Rhode Island, it 
will cause a ripple effect that will be irreversible, as these acres 
will be permanently removed from production. This ripple effect will 
not only be devastating to the farmers and employees of Texas Producers 
Cooperative, but also to many other local businesses, including banks, 
grocery stores, and restaurants.
    Local schools, the heartbeat of these small towns, will also be 
impacted. Sudan Independent School District, a National Blue Ribbon 
School, is one of the schools that fall under this land grab. Sudan ISD 
has one of the largest school districts in the South Plains and covers 
approximately 583 square miles. There are currently around 450 
students, 46 teachers, and 79 total staff employed. According to Scott 
Harrell, Sudan ISD Superintendent, Sudan ISD has an annual revenue of 
$7,362,385 and spends approximately $17,000 per student. This school's 
annual revenue can be broken down by source as follows: 76.3% from 
local property taxes, 19.9% from state funds, and 3.8% from Federal 
funds. There are three counties inside the school district: Lamb, 
Bailey, and Cochran counties.
    The total tax base value for all three counties within the school 
district is $644,662,980, which serves as the basis for all 
calculations used by the TEA (Texas Education Agency) to determine the 
compressed tax rate. Two taxes are assessed: M&O (Maintenance and 
Operations), which covers the maintenance and daily operations of the 
school, and I&S (Interests and Sinking), which is used to pay off any 
bond loans. On the I&S side, this tax is based solely on the taxable 
value within the school district. If this land is converted into 
government-owned property and removed from the tax roll, the school has 
no choice but to raise the I&S tax rate to make the yearly bond 
payment. This burden then falls on the remaining farms and ranches 
outside of the targeted area but still within the school district. The 
Agricultural Property Valuation of the portion of the Sudan School 
District in each county is broken down as follows:

     Lamb County: $54.8 million

     Bailey County: $80.7 million

     Cochran County: $9.5 million

    With 700,000 acres potentially being vacated from private 
landowners and taxpayers, there will be multiple economic losses, 
including a reduction in the number of teachers, bus drivers, and 
staff, as fewer children will be available to be picked up in these 
acres and fewer children will be enrolled in local schools. After all, 
there would be nobody left to live and farm on these lost acres.
    The Muleshoe National Wildlife Refuge, as of today, comprises of 
6,440 acres, according to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. The 
proposed 30x30 plan aims to deliver conservation of up to 700,000 
acres, an over 10,000% increase of acreage compared to the current 
refuge land area. In my opinion, the Muleshoe Wildlife Refuge, as it 
stands today, is understaffed and undermanaged, and likely will get 
worse if its size were to increase by 10,000%.
    When the Interior Department announced the expansion of this 
National Wildlife Refuge, it claimed that the plans were developed, 
informed, and ultimately supported by input from local landowners 
through a public process. To my knowledge, Sudan ISD, Texas Producers 
Cooperative, I, nor any of my fellow farmers and ranchers, were ever 
contacted or asked for input. On the contrary, there have been multiple 
town hall meetings on this proposal after the plan was finalized and 
made public, and the overwhelming majority of the people who attended 
these meetings have been strongly opposed to this expansion.
    Since the Muleshoe Wildlife Refuge was established in 1935 by an 
executive order from President Franklin D. Roosevelt, conservationists 
and farmers have co-existed through multiple National Resources 
Conservation Services (NRCS) programs such as the Conservation Reserve 
Program (CRP) and Environmental Quality Incentives Program (EQIP). 
Farmers and ranchers are amazing stewards of the land and many of us, 
including myself, are avid outdoors men. I have fishing licenses in 4 
states and hunting licenses in 3 states, so I appreciate the outdoors, 
and I do appreciate the work that U.S. Fish and Wildlife does to 
preserve these resources for generations to come. I am not against 
conservation programs that make sense, but I am against those like the 
Muleshoe plan that will cause economic devastation to an entire region 
and permanently alter the way of life for the hundreds of families that 
call this place home.
    My family has called Sudan home for over 100 years, so there is an 
emotional aspect to this expansion for me. My mother taught 4th grade 
for 40 years in Sudan and my sister has taught 2nd grade in Sudan for 
20 years. I have two nephews, Cal and Nick, who attend Sudan ISD today 
and I am fighting for them to always have a place to come back to and 
be able to call it home. Congressman Arrington is from Plainview, TX, 
which as the ``crow flies'', is only about 45 miles from Sudan. He 
understands the destructive impact this plan will have not only on 
Sudan and our region, but on Texas and on the entire United States, 
because if a 10,000% expansion is allowed to happen in Texas, where the 
entire state is over 95% privately owned, then it can happen anywhere.
    That is why I am here today and why I support H.R. 839, to defend 
the way of life for the place that I and thousands of hard-working West 
Texans call home.

                                 ______
                                 

    Ms. Hageman. Thank you, Mr. Baker. I now recognize Mr. 
Anderson for 5 minutes of testimony.

STATEMENT OF MIKK ANDERSON, BOARD MEMBER AND COLORADO VOLUNTEER 
     STATE POLICY CHAIR, DUCKS UNLIMITED, AURORA, COLORADO

    Mr. Anderson. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. My name is 
Mikk Anderson. I am from Aurora, Colorado, which, for those of 
you who don't know, is about 4 hours south of Madam Chair's and 
about 3 hours east of Mr. Hurd's. So we are all in the same 
beautiful Rocky Mountain area.
    I am a retired professional water resources engineer, 
recently retired, still trying to adjust to that; a 30-year 
volunteer for Ducks Unlimited. I am on the board of directors 
for that organization, as well as their conservation program's 
advisory committee and their public policy committee. 
Currently, I am the State Public Policy Chair for the State of 
Colorado.
    And I thought, as I was trying to prepare my remarks, I 
thought, well, if I was sitting in your seats, what would I 
need to know about this bill, and why would I want to listen to 
me talk about it? But I think that one of the questions I would 
ask is, you know, what is really being asked here? What am I 
being asked to vote for? And as was eloquently described by Mr. 
Hurd, this is not something new. This is a reauthorization. We 
know what these funds do. We know how they work. We merely want 
to reauthorize this to extend it to 2033.
    So we are not talking about unintended consequences. We 
know what is going to happen. We know how it is going to 
happen. And importantly, we know how we are going to pay for 
it. In my written remarks I talked about the fact that 
sportsmen almost 100 years ago advocated for Pittman-Robertson 
tax. A little strange feeling these days, but we advocated for 
it so we would have the money to make the kind of improvements 
that were necessary for our wildlife and for that habitat, and 
we want to continue doing that. And the interest from this Fund 
from the sportsmen's organizations and purchases would go to 
NAWCA.
    And why NAWCA? Well, NAWCA is also not new. It is a very 
effective program at habitat for wetlands. Well, why wetlands? 
Wetlands are incredibly complex locations of ecology that have 
a lot of diversity. But obviously, Ducks Unlimited, we are 
interested in the waterfowl. They have to have wetlands. But 
wetlands are so much more.
    And I would like to just comment just briefly on that, that 
besides the wildlife, wetlands are huge impacts on water 
quality. They trap sediment, they trap nutrients, they keep 
those from going down into our surface waters and aquifer. They 
delay runoff to reduce flooding effects, and all without having 
to be managed or operated by someone. It is just the natural 
process.
    The wildlife is more than just waterfowl. Ninety percent of 
the birds that migrate use wetlands at some point in their 
life. They may not nest there, they may not winter there, but 
they use it in migration. If you were in Colorado right now, I 
could take you out and show you a huge variety of birds that 
won't be there a week or maybe a month from now. They will be 
migrated off into somewhere else. But they need those wetlands 
right now to make their migration successful. That is what 
NAWCA is doing. It is making wetlands.
    The people who are in this panel because of the fisheries 
issues need to understand that there is a great amount of 
science coming out right now that coastal wetlands, in 
particular, are crucial to our fisheries for rearing the small 
fish and shellfish on the Gulf Coast. Those wetlands there 
protect against hurricane storm damage, and in the process are 
just these great nurseries for a wide variety of fish.
    Those of the members who are on the West Coast, they are 
discovering that that is part of the problem with salmon not 
being produced, is the fact that they haven't had the coastal 
wetlands to rear in before going out to the ocean. They go out 
too small, they are too vulnerable. If they have a wetland, 
rather than just being flushed out, they are larger and they 
come back bigger.
    And then there is a huge amount of recreation that occurs 
in wetlands now. That is also an advantage of what is being 
funded by NAWCA.
    I mean, really what we are talking about is funding NAWCA. 
And NAWCA, as a program, is fantastic in the sense that it is 
such an efficient and effective program, so if I was in your 
shoes and deciding whether or not to vote for this, I am not 
voting just for more waterfowl, I am voting for all those other 
aspects, as well. And I would encourage you to consider that 
when you consider your vote.
    So Madam Chair, thank you very much for this opportunity. I 
appreciate that, and I look forward to any questions.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Anderson follows:]
  Prepared Statement of Mikk Anderson, Ducks Unlimited Board Member, 
                            Aurora, Colorado

    Madame Chair, Ranking Member Hoyle, and Members of the Committee--
thank you for the opportunity to testify in support of Representatives 
Hurd and Elfreth's Wetlands Conservation and Access Improvement Act of 
2025, H.R. 2316.
    My name is Mikk Anderson, and I hail from Aurora, Colorado. I am a 
30-year member, supporter, and board member of Ducks Unlimited, the 
world leader in waterfowl and wetlands conservation. It is an honor to 
represent Ducks Unlimited, and our one million supporters across the 
United States, to talk about the importance of preserving America's 
wetland habitat through interest investment into the North American 
Wetlands Conservation Act, referred to as NAWCA.
    Ducks Unlimited, Inc.'s (DU) mission is to restore, conserve and 
protect wetlands to fill the skies with waterfowl today, tomorrow and 
forever. We have been working toward this mission since our founding in 
1937 and have conserved more than 18 million acres of habitat across 
North America. DU boasts 1 million supporters across the country and 
850 staff operating in all 50 states. We have sister organizations in 
Canada and Mexico that provide critical links to a duck's long journey 
from the frigid breeding grounds of the Boreal Forest to the steamy 
floodplains of the Sea of Cortez. Ducks cannot distinguish between our 
borders, so neither does our work.
    I have been a DU volunteer since 1994, and a hunter and outdoorsman 
all my life. Professionally, I am the Executive Vice President at 
RESIGHT Holdings, LLC, completing real estate transactions and managing 
environmental projects to create value from environmentally impaired 
real estate assets. Before that, I spent 20 years with national 
engineering consulting firms focusing on water and wastewater 
infrastructure development.
    During my time with Ducks Unlimited I have witnessed the 
transformative work that occurs when hunters and conservation 
organizations collaborate with federal government and state governments 
to restore wetlands and other habitat to benefit waterfowl. In my home 
state of Colorado, and across the United States, the North American 
Wetlands Conservation Act and the Pittman-Robertson Act have achieved 
tremendous success on the ground for both habitat and game species. 
These laws are the cornerstone for funding wetland conservation and 
connecting people with the outdoors and wildlife. These funds have 
enabled Ducks Unlimited to work hand-in-hand with private landowners, 
farmers and ranchers, Tribes, conservation partners, and local 
government agencies to achieve these ends, and this bill, H.R. 2316, is 
the next step in the long journey we have been on for nearly 100 years.
    The Wetlands Conservation and Access Improvement Act of 2025, H.R. 
2316, reauthorizes the Pittman-Robertson Act's interest allocated to 
the NAWCA and empowers partner organizations like Ducks Unlimited to 
multiply those dollars to deliver vital projects that help ensure 
healthy populations of many animal species, not just waterfowl. This 
partnership between the users, states, firearms industry, and federal 
government was established through P-R almost a century ago, 
recognizing the critical role each play in wildlife restoration. 
Congress has, and must, continue to recognize the incredibly important 
force America's hunters and outdoorsmen and women play in protecting 
wildlife, and waterfowl.
    Hunters and anglers have paid for conservation, ensuring that our 
country was taken from the brink of wildlife decimation in the early 
1900's, to a renaissance of wildlife abundance today. In the late 
1800's, the country's original conservationists sounded the alarm on 
the near extinction of America's iconic species like the buffalo, 
white-tailed deer and wood duck. By the early 1900's, as a society we 
began to understand the collective need to act in order to protect the 
last vestiges of wild America, and the keystone species that rely on 
this habitat. From the beginning, hunters were the first to raise their 
hands to fix this problem. In 1937, a Senator from Nevada and a 
Congressman from Virginia worked with hunters to create a new system to 
fund wildlife and habitat restoration work, paid for by the hunters 
themselves. Later that year, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt signed 
into law the Federal Aid in Wildlife Restoration Act, more commonly 
referred to as the Pittman-Robertson Act, in honor of the two visionary 
Members of Congress that brought it to the President's desk.
    The Pittman-Robertson Act (P-R) collects an 11% excise tax on 
sporting arms and ammunition (including archery equipment) that is 
placed in a trust fund. The logic being that the more sporting arms and 
ammunition bought by hunters as they take to the field, the more money 
would be raised for the conservation of the very species they were 
pursuing. The fund then distributes the money each year to each state 
fish and wildlife agency, ensuring local control of these monies. The 
states themselves provide a 25% match of funds that they receive from 
P-R, again ensuring that everyone has skin in the game. The amount each 
state receives is based on a formula that accounts for how large a 
state is geographically, and critically, how many hunting licenses are 
sold. The higher the number, the more money a state receives. Since its 
inception in 1937, P-R has generated more than $17 billion for the 
Wildlife Restoration Trust Fund.\1\ The passage of the Pittman-
Robertson Act shifted the paradigm of how conservation was conducted, 
and how hunters led the charge. This created the ``user pays-public 
benefits'' model, which has been a key component of the North American 
Model of Wildlife Conservation. This model is unique to North America 
and has been singularly responsible for stopping many iconic species 
from being relegated to the annals of history at the turn of the last 
century, to now flourishing in numbers that have not been seen in 
generations.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Campbell, Elena. ``Funding Sources.'' Partner with a Payer, 
March 25, 2025. https://partnerwithapayer.org/ funding-sources/.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Decades later, in an effort to stem the loss of wetlands and 
waterfowl habitat, hunters who had been funding habitat conservation 
advocated for a program specific to wetlands and waterfowl restoration. 
In 1989, then-president George H.W. Bush signed into law the North 
American Wetlands Conservation Act (NAWCA), which again saw a seismic 
shift in how conservation is done in America. Leaning on the scientific 
research from federal and state agencies, and the conservation 
community, the North American Waterfowl Management plan was born, 
helping inform the creation of NAWCA. This program focuses funding on 
the most critical wetland habitats across the country, ensuring that 
waterfowl populations directly benefit. The vast majority of NAWCA 
dollars go to hunting lands and supporting public hunting 
opportunities. NAWCA has a unique model for how grants are adjudicated 
and awarded. The Migratory Bird Conservation Committee, a committee 
made up of two Senators and two Representatives, one from each party, 
and the Secretaries of the Interior, Agriculture and the Environmental 
Protection Agency Administrator, reviews all grant applications to 
ensure only the highest quality projects, those specifically benefiting 
waterfowl and the hunters that pursue them, will be approved. This 
system provides a rare level of Congressional and Administrative 
oversight, inserting a high level of fidelity into the process. Each 
dollar granted through NAWCA requires at least one dollar of match from 
grantees. Because of how competitive the program is, match 
contributions are typically two, three or four times what the federal 
government provides. This model has made NAWCA one of the most 
economically efficient conservation programs Congress funds, providing 
the biggest bang for the buck for the American taxpayer. Since the 
program's creation in 1989, NAWCA has granted $2.1 billion, resulting 
in a further $4.3 billion in matching partner money, funding 3,300 
projects and conservating more than 32 million acres of wetland 
habitat! \2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ ``NAWCA--North American Wetlands Conservation Act: Ducks 
Unlimited.'' View State Page. Accessed April 2, 2025. https://
www.ducks.org/conservation/public-policy/nawca-north-american- 
wetlands-conservation-act.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    20 years ago, the Pittman-Robertson Fund began generating record 
levels of funding. Because the dollar amounts are so large and the time 
delay for their allocation to the states, P-R allows the Secretary of 
the Treasury to invest a portion of the fund's revenue that is not 
needed by the states in any given year in interest-bearing U.S. 
treasuries.\3\ Since 2004, this interest has been allocated to the 
NAWCA fund because of the continued need of funding for wetlands 
restoration, and because of its unique governance model. These interest 
payments have generated an average of at least $10 million per year for 
wetlands conservation. This supplemental funding has provided a boon to 
NAWCA, as project grant applications and demand for funding has 
skyrocketed. This interest mechanism has a timespan, and it does 
require reauthorization from time to time. In its current phase, this 
interest payment expires in 2026. Thanks to Representative Hurd and 
Representative Elfreth's leadership in identifying this impending 
issue, H.R. 2316 will ensure P-R interest will continue until 2033.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ Irby, Lisa. ``Celebrating 80 Years of the Pittman-Robertson 
Act: Ducks Unlimited.'' Ducks Unlimited. Accessed April 2, 2025. 
https://www.ducks.org/newsroom/celebrating-80-years-of-the-pittman-
robertson-
act#::text=An%20amendment%20to%20the%20Pittman,million%20per%20 
year%20since%202004.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sending additional revenue generated by hunter's initial investment 
from P-R to NAWCA is representative of the legacy of a mutually 
beneficial relationship between hunters, the state wildlife agencies 
and the firearm and ammunition manufacturers. For example, to access 
any of P-R's federal funding, states must guarantee that license fees 
paid by hunters will be used only to administer state fish and wildlife 
departments. In addition to directly providing money for critical 
wildlife conservation and habitat restoration, P-R and its interest to 
NAWCA ensures that fees paid by hunters are not diverted by states for 
other uses that do not benefit hunters and the wildlife they pursue.
    There is no doubt that state wildlife agencies benefit from 
reauthorizing P-R interest investment into NAWCA to conserve game and 
non-game species alike. The ability to leverage P-R dollars with non-
federal resources demonstrates the wide-spread support for these 
programs amongst the entire outdoor recreation and conservation 
community. Strengthening NAWCA with P-R interest empowers non-profit 
organizations like Ducks Unlimited to magnify public-private 
partnerships for the common good, supporting hunting opportunities 
across the country and benefiting the very sportsmen and women that pay 
into these funds.
    The year 1937 holds a special place in the heart of duck hunters 
around the country as the founding year for both Ducks Unlimited and 
the Pittman-Robertson Act. Both are institutions of American 
conservation efforts and resulted in a unified call to action from 
America's sportsmen and women. Since the 1930's, we have continued to 
lead the way by footing the bill to restore and protect wildlife 
habitat across the country. NAWCA was a natural progression of both P-R 
and DU nearly 50 years later.
    Since the advent of P-R, other similar funds were created using 
this model, most notably the Dingell-Johnson Sport Fish Restoration Act 
of 1950, Together, Pittman-Robertson and Dingell-Johnson have generated 
a more than $29 billion to restore, manage and monitor our nation's 
fish and wildlife resources and improve access for outdoor activities 
like hunting and fishing. State fish and wildlife agencies have 
additionally contributed more than $9 billion in matching investments 
throughout the program's history, multiplying the benefits to wildlife 
and outdoorsmen and women alike. These funds have also supported 
operations and maintenance of more than 800 target ranges and opening 
of more than 36 million acres of land to hunting and angling.\4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \4\ McCombie, Brian. ``Hunter-Backed Pittman-Robertson Act Provides 
$1.3 Billion for 2025 Conservation Funding.'' NRA Hunters' Leadership 
Forum. Accessed April 2, 2025. https://www.nrahlf.org/articles/2025/3/
20/hunter-backed-pittman-robertson-act-provides-13-billion-for-2025-
conservation-funding/.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Everyone with a deep and personal connection to the outdoors owes a 
debt of gratitude to the hunters and conservation pioneers who laid the 
groundwork for this harmonious relationship between P-R and NAWCA.
    There should be no doubt that outdoor recreation, especially 
waterfowling, is an essential part of the U.S. economy. In a 2024 
report reviewing 2022 economic data, the Sportsmen's Alliance found 
that recreation hunting and target shooting generated more than $106.2 
billion in combined retail sales and contributed $133 billion to 
economic growth.\5\ That data is substantial in the aggregate, but the 
districts of members of this committee represent some of the strongest 
in terms of economic contributions of their hunter constituents. In 
Wyoming, 132,190 hunters spent $218 million on hunting-related 
purchases.\6\ Of the statewide totals, Oregon's 4th congressional 
district represented 63,060 hunters & $336 Million in spending.\7\ The 
return on investment from the excise taxes on these transactions can be 
felt most directly in the wild terraces of the West where I and members 
of this committee call home.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ Hunting in America: An Economic Force for Conservation. 
Produced for Sportsmen's Alliance Foundation by Southwick Associates 
via Multistate Grant # F23AP00468 awarded by the Wildlife and Sport 
Fish Restoration Programs of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. 2024.
    \6\ ``Hunting in America: An Economic Force for Conservation.'' 
Wyoming Economic Contributions--Hunting. Accessed April 2, 2025. 
https://sportsmensalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/2024_ 
SAF_Hunt_Report_Page_090924.pdf.
    \7\ ``Hunting in America: An Economic Force for Conservation.'' 
Oregon Economic Contributions--Hunting. Accessed April 2, 2025. https:/
/sportsmensalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/2024_ 
SAF_Hunt_Report_Page_090924.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In Colorado alone, we received $24.9 million in 2025 from P-R 
funds.1 NAWCA in turn has funded 49 projects with $26.5 in 
federal monies and $75.8 million in partner match.8
    Water 4 Colorado's San Luis Valley I & II is a great example of how 
much further these projects can go with the compounding power of PR 
interest and public-private match. Of the over $8 million total 
investment in the project, $5.6 million came from partner 
contributions. This project will protect, enhance, and restore over 
10,000 acres of migratory bird habitat, including over 2,100 acres of 
wetlands, on both public and private land. Flood-irrigated wetlands, 
riparian areas, and uplands totaling 1,845 acres on important private 
farm and ranchlands will be enhanced by modernizing irrigation 
infrastructure. The San Luis Valley (SLV) is recognized as the most 
important waterfowl production for the Mallard, Northern Pintail, 
Southwestern Willow Flycatcher, and Greater Sandhill Cranes.\8\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \8\ ``NAWCA Colorado State Fact Sheet.'' Ducks Unlimited, February 
20, 2025. https://duckscdn.blob.core.windows.net/imagescontainer/
landing-pages/conservation/nawca/fact-sheets/nawca-national.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Preserving this incredible model of wildlife conservation funding 
benefits ALL Americans, not just hunters, and helps ensure sustainable 
waterfowl habitat and populations for future generations. The nearly 
1.5 million waterfowl hunters spend a collective 17 MILLION days in the 
field and spend more than $1.3 billion on trip and gear expenses alone. 
That economy is supported in large part by the investments made by 
NAWCA to conserve waterfowl habitat in all parts of the country. This 
nearly century of success has been almost entirely possible due to the 
delicate structure of that ``users pay--public benefits'' system. And 
while those hunters are paying for all that conservation, everyone that 
enjoys waterfowl, wetlands and the outdoors benefits from their 
investment.
    We need to fortify the common-sense approach to funding in H.R. 
2316 and empower partner organizations like Ducks Unlimited that 
stretch these finite dollars to achieve more with less. Ducks 
Unlimited's work and that of our partners will continue to focus on 
educating everyone about the downstream benefits of P-R and NAWCA in 
our communities and where our passions lay. This is made possible 
through protecting incredible programs like P-R and NAWCA and your 
support of them today and in the future. Madame Chair, Ranking Member, 
Members of the Committee, thank you again for the invitation to testify 
in support of H.R. 2316 and thank you for all you do to protect our 
wetlands and waterfowl.

                                 ______
                                 

    Ms. Hageman. Thank you, Mr. Anderson, for your testimony.
    I want to thank each of you for being here today and 
providing us with this valuable information. I will now 
recognize members for 5 minutes each for questioning, and I am 
going to begin with myself.
    Mr. Baker, some of my colleagues on this Committee seem to 
believe that the only way to benefit any species or a variety 
of species is for folks to sell their land to the Federal 
Government. Do you believe that to be the case?
    Mr. Baker. Thank you for the question.
    Personally, no. I fall back that farmers are original 
stewards. We take care of the land because we have a vested 
interest in it. We want to leave it better than we found it. So 
I think that farmers are better with that, as far as taking 
care of that.
    Ms. Hageman. Why would the Muleshoe expansion plan hurt 
your community?
    Mr. Baker. For some of the things I mentioned earlier. 
Number one, our school district falls really large into that 
expansion area, so there is going to be a reduction in kids 
there. There is also the tax roll will be affected tremendously 
if all these acres are taken out of production. So that is 
going to be a larger impact and a higher tax rate for the 
farmers that are left outside of this targeted area. They are 
going to have to pay more. So it is going to cost them more, as 
far as the tax roll goes, for one example.
    The other example is our co-ops and our businesses are all 
going to hurt from this because there is not going to be 
anybody left out there to farm those acres.
    Ms. Hageman. Well, and again, being from a State that has 
such an enormous Federal footprint, I can tell you that those 
concerns are valid, they are real. It has a huge impact. We 
often talk about PILT, or Payment in Lieu of Taxes. I refer to 
that as poverty in lieu of taxes or pennies in lieu of taxes. 
It just simply does not make up for the economic addition that 
is associated with private industry, private production, 
private development.
    And as I mentioned in my opening statement, the National 
Wildlife Refuge System has a $2.65 billion deferred maintenance 
backlog. Mr. Baker, as a private citizen living near the 
existing Muleshoe National Wildlife Refuge, do you agree that 
the Service should focus on addressing this backlog, rather 
than increasing the amount of land that it manages?
    Mr. Baker. Yes, ma'am. I feel like, if they are going to 
try to expand this out, it is going to, like I said, not only 
hurt our tax base, but it is also going to hurt these local 
schools and those businesses out there.
    But I know that there is a thing called a wildlife refuge 
fund, which is voted on by Congress. And that is when they are 
allotted so much money to spend on their taxes. And I know last 
year the Muleshoe Wildlife Refuge only paid $2,666 to the local 
tax, while I have a friend that has a neighboring farm right 
next to the refuge, he paid a little more than that. He paid 
$1.65 an acre, whereas the Muleshoe Wildlife Refuge only paid 
$0.41 an acre. So I see that only 25 percent of that tax base 
is going to get paid the way it is if all this goes into a 
wildlife refuge.
    Ms. Hageman. You know, and I am a strong advocate for 
private property rights. As a private attorney I worked for 
landowners extensively, probably one of the biggest parts of my 
practice. And while we have the right to buy and sell land, we 
don't necessarily have the right for the Federal Government to 
buy our land. And I think that that is one of the significant 
issues we are dealing with here today.
    Mr. McGlawn, I would like to turn to you now. And 
Congressman Ezell's legislation would reinstate an aquaculture 
depredation order that was vacated as a result of litigation 
and a court order. Part of that litigation centered around 
concerns that the continued use of depredation orders could 
have a negative population level effect on the species. Can you 
explain to the Committee the steps you would have to follow 
under the depredation order to help ensure that there is not a 
negative population level effect?
    Mr. McGlawn. Yes, ma'am, and thank you.
    So our first choice is to harass the bird, which would ride 
around in the truck, try to just keep them out of the water. So 
if that doesn't work, then we shoot a pyrotechnic, like a 
flame, in the air. And if that doesn't work, then we have a 
propane gun cannons that we use that just make a big, loud 
sound.
    So our first line of attack is just harassment, just to try 
to get the bird off of our farm and back to a roost area, into 
a lake or a break or anything close by. But, you know, when we 
get to the last resort, lethal is the only way we can actually 
get them off the farm at times.
    Ms. Hageman. And what are the reporting requirements that 
you have?
    Mr. McGlawn. So we apply for the permit, and we make an 
educated guess on how many birds we think we will take that 
year. And then we just keep up with every bird we take, and we 
have to turn it in.
    Ms. Hageman. OK, I appreciate that. Thank you for your 
responses and for your engagement.
    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Huffman for 5 minutes of 
questioning.
    Mr. Huffman. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Mr. Roley, I would like to start with you. Welcome. Thanks 
for traveling to Washington to be part of this hearing and 
providing your honest opinion of H.R. 839. And I am really 
impressed with the way you have managed your property and the 
thoughtfulness and stewardship that has gone into all of that. 
You noted in your testimony that you have restored a lot of 
property for conservation, and you have chosen to do that. Why 
did you choose to prioritize conservation over other things you 
could have done with your land?
    Mr. Roley. I don't know. I mean, I grew up in the Midwest, 
and everything was claimed. There was no wildlife. And I bought 
my first place that we restored for the prairie chickens. It 
was amazing to watch those little guys. And we planted the 
grass that would be suitable for them, and did that, so we 
could see improvement.
    The best thing I did, the mule deer were migrating into our 
area, and I ran water out, fresh water out every day for the 
mule deer. And now the herds have gone from 3 to 29, 17, 
whatever. We hunt with binoculars often, and my wife and I love 
going out there. So it is nice, I like it. It is a passion.
    Mr. Huffman. It sounds beautiful. I imagine that all of 
that required a significant investment of your time and money, 
and you decided not to lease the land for oil and gas, which 
limits the potential income that you might generate from it. Is 
that all correct?
    Mr. Roley. We don't have oil and gas on that one. I have 
got another farm that does have some oil wells.
    Mr. Huffman. All right. Can the Muleshoe land protection 
plan offer additional financial incentives to property owners 
like you who want to use their land for conservation?
    Mr. Roley. Well, the deal that I understand is the 
easements. I have got a friend who is south of the refuge, and 
he is a cattle farmer, and he is going to put some of his 
pasture in the easements because he is not going to allow the 
grass to get too low, because then you lose everything. And 
they are good stewards of the land. It is good to have another 
set of eyes look at your place. And so he is going to put a lot 
of his property in an easement. He is not selling his land.
    Mr. Huffman. Right.
    Mr. Roley. They are not grabbing it, they are not stealing 
it. He just wants the easement for the cattle, for doing what 
he has been doing for years.
    Mr. Huffman. So when we hear, as we just did, about 700,000 
acres permanently removed from production, nobody would be left 
to pay any taxes or go to schools or do anything like that, 
that doesn't necessarily have to be the case at all under this 
plan, right?
    Mr. Roley. This easement, he still owns the land, he still 
pays the property, he still puts the cattle on it.
    Mr. Huffman. The kids still go to school?
    Mr. Roley. Whatever you want to do.
    Mr. Huffman. Yes.
    Mr. Roley. He gets a little help, and he gets a little 
money up front to help him improve the land. That is it.
    Mr. Huffman. Does the conservation of your land have any 
negative impacts on your neighbor's land?
    Mr. Roley. Well, my neighbors kind of feel the same way I 
do. Two of them do. And it has really been helpful. We have got 
a really nice little area here. My property is 2,200 acres, and 
my lady rancher next to me has got, I don't know, 450. And 
between all of us, we have got a good significant place. They 
need a range. Wildlife move. So they can't just have one little 
place.
    Mr. Huffman. Well, thank you very much. It does seem to me 
that blocking this plan just because it might align with the 
Biden administration's biodiversity initiative is shortsighted, 
and a lot of the rhetoric and other assertions we have heard 
today really don't bear much of a connection with reality. And 
your testimony helps highlight the very sensible way in which 
this plan could move forward in a way that works very well for 
the community and private landowners. So thank you for that.
    Mr. McGlawn, the Fish and Wildlife Service isn't testifying 
here today, so I guess I have you, and I want to just ask you a 
couple of yes-or-no questions about the Service's position on 
H.R. 2293.
    Has the Service ever denied one of your depredation permit 
applications for managing cormorants? And believe me, I 
understand why you would need to manage the cormorant, given 
your line of work.
    Mr. McGlawn. No, they have not ever denied one.
    Mr. Huffman. OK, thank you. Have you talked with the 
Service about your concerns with the current permit process?
    Mr. McGlawn. We have.
    Mr. Huffman. You have?
    Mr. McGlawn. Yes.
    Mr. Huffman. All right. Has the Service expressed recent 
concerns about their ability to provide depredation permits? In 
other words, under this administration do you expect that the 
Service would continue to say yes when you need a depredation 
permit?
    Mr. McGlawn. We hope so, but I can't answer for them.
    Mr. Huffman. Well, they have so far, right?
    Mr. McGlawn. Yes, they have.
    Mr. Huffman. Under both Republican and Democratic 
administrations.
    Mr. McGlawn. Correct.
    Mr. Huffman. Yes. If timeliness of permits is the issue, 
would a fully staffed migratory bird office help to speed up 
those permit times? In other words, you need someone to answer 
the phone when you call with a question; you need someone to 
process your permit application when you submit it; it probably 
helps to have actual people staffing the office. I am sort of 
answering my own question, but would you agree with that?
    Mr. McGlawn. I would agree.
    Mr. Huffman. Yes, thank you.
    Madam Chair, we are happy to try to work across the aisle 
to figure out this issue, but without Fish and Wildlife 
Service's testimony and proper oversight by Congress to ensure 
the Migratory Bird Office is fully staffed, I don't know how we 
can take this bill seriously. I hope the majority will work 
with us to get answers to some of the basic questions before 
moving the bill forward.
    And with that I yield.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Mrs. 
Radewagen for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Mrs. Radewagen. Talofa lava. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman 
and Ranking Member, for holding this important hearing today, 
and I want to thank the witnesses for being here.
    Mr. McGlawn, the commercial tuna industry makes up roughly 
85 percent of American Samoa's gross domestic product, and 
serves as a main economic driver for American Samoans. While my 
family and neighbors do not have to compete with double-crested 
cormorants, many are familiar with the over-burdensome and 
challenging regulations that hamper fishermen's ability to do 
their jobs. When it comes to cormorant management, how would 
increased flexibility benefit cities and towns like your 
community in Mississippi?
    Mr. McGlawn. Just being able to manage the population gives 
us more survivability on our farm with our stocking. Right now 
we are losing 5 to 10 percent of our crop every year just to 
bird depredation. So that is less income for us, less income 
for the community and everyone around.
    Mrs. Radewagen. And in part of your testimony you 
emphasized the importance of competing in a market where costs 
of production can be high and there is fierce competition from 
seafood importers. Can you tell us how improved cormorant 
management would alleviate some of those concerns and 
strengthen local economies?
    Mr. McGlawn. It would. Like I said, we would have a better 
survival rate on our farm, and it would increase our yields.
    Mrs. Radewagen. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I yield back 
the balance of my time.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Ms. Hoyle 
for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Ms. Hoyle. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Again, thank you all for coming here to testify today. It 
is important that we hear from people who are experts and who 
have real-life experience.
    Mr. Roley, would you like to expand a little bit? Again, 
like myself, it seems you believe that as a private property 
owner it should be your choice to whom you sell your property. 
And you spoke to the values of why you wanted to have your land 
and conservation. But speak more to the values as a private 
property owner to make the decision of who you should sell your 
property to.
    Mr. Roley. Well, I mean, no one helped me pay for the land. 
No one helped me pay the taxes. So I am very adamant about I 
will do what I want. It is my land, and that is what is going 
to happen.
    So, I don't know, we have all got the same feelings in one 
way, shape, or another. But if someone wants to buy it from me 
and then put it in conservation, who am I to tell them they 
can't do that? I can't do that.
    Ms. Hoyle. Thank you. Now I would like to ask a question of 
Mr. Anderson.
    I am a big fan of Ducks Unlimited and the work that you 
have done across this country with wetlands. Specifically, I 
have seen what has happened in Oregon, and it is really 
important.
    So wetland conservation often gets talked about in terms of 
environmental impact, but it also has significant economic 
benefits for local communities. Can you share how wetland 
conservation boosts local economies?
    Mr. Anderson. Yes, I would be glad to. There is a lot of 
recreational activity that occurs around wetlands, and 
particularly those that are enhanced in a way to increase 
access like suggested in the title of the act. I am trying to 
see if I can get access to some of my notes.
    [Pause.]
    Mr. Anderson. With the NAWCA program, it does require a 
match, a local match, just so during the construction activity 
associated with the improvements, that alone can bring a 
significant amount of money, to the State or local location.
    I think in Oregon itself, there has been almost $100 
million worth of matching money that has been provided in 
addition to the grant. Although I am not intimately familiar 
with Oregon projects, in some of the other locations we often 
attract much more than just a 50 percent match. I have 
personally been involved in a program in Colorado that had a 
match that exceeded 10 times the partner money compared to the 
Federal money.
    So many ways we see the NAWCA money acting like a seed 
money for that activity. And then, once the project is 
completed, a lot of times the water resource benefits, the 
water quantity benefits that I talked about earlier, can yield 
additional economic advantages, as well. In Colorado, as an 
example, we use the NAWCA projects to, in essence, put wildlife 
values on top of water resource projects. And in doing so we 
have been able to enhance irrigation activity for increased 
agricultural production in some cases. Also municipal water 
supplies have benefited from the programs. And in doing so we 
also, obviously, get the wildlife benefits associated with the 
water use.
    Ms. Hoyle. That is great, thanks. And very briefly, NAWCA 
funds, which are supported by both Democrats and Republicans, 
are crucial for supporting conservation efforts. But as we look 
at efficiency and transparency, how does Ducks Unlimited, you 
know, work with the Fish and Wildlife Service to ensure the 
NAWCA funds go to areas where conservation efforts will make 
the biggest difference for wildlife, clean water, and 
communities? Very briefly.
    Mr. Anderson. Yes. One of the unique aspects of the NAWCA 
program is the way that it is designed to function in that if 
some locale wishes for a project, they have to put in a 
proposal. A lot of times we at Ducks Unlimited create those 
proposals in conjunction with our partners, and those proposals 
then are all brought up here to Washington, D.C. for a 
Committee which has two Representatives from the House, two 
representatives from the Senate, and Secretaries of the 
Interior and Agriculture, and the Administrator of the EPA. So 
there is a tremendous amount of oversight in the beginning to 
take a look at the proposals.
    They are then ranked. They are ranked according to a 
scoring technique which is aimed to try to maximize the dollars 
put to the maximum benefits. And so every funding cycle goes 
through that ranking process.
    Ms. Hoyle. Right.
    Mr. Anderson. It is a function of a well-known, 
transparent, supported program.
    Ms. Hoyle. Thank you very much, sir.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. And the Chair now recognizes Mr. 
Ezell for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Ezell. Thank you, Madam Chair. You know, we have 
already vetted this bill from our friends across the aisle, and 
this bill is bipartisan. I just don't understand why Mr. 
Huffman refuses to acknowledge bills that are supported by both 
parties. But with that I will move on.
    Mr. McGlawn, in your testimony you touch on the economic 
burden that the cormorants place on you and your family who 
help run the farm. How have these cormorants impacted your 
operations and livelihood over the years?
    Mr. McGlawn. Thank you. This is my nineteenth crop, so I 
have been doing this for a good while. So typically, we face 5, 
10, sometimes even 15 percent loss to bird depredation. So if 
you count that over basically 20 years of farming, I have given 
up hundreds of thousands of dollars of fish that I have 
purchased, put in the water, fed, kept alive, and had major 
expenses in that I just do not have to sell at the end of the 
year. So it is a huge economic loss to us.
    Mr. Ezell. You also mentioned that the current system of 
individual permits is inefficient and fails to provide timely 
relief for you and other farmers. Can you please expand on the 
benefits of a national order?
    And how will the Cormorant Relief Act of 2025 help fish 
farmers like yourself and protect your business?
    Mr. McGlawn. Doing a national order would just simplify and 
make it a lot more efficient. And just like we said, we have to 
make an educated guess on how many birds to take that year, and 
that is just an unknown. We just don't know what the population 
is going to be in any given year. So like I said, I could have 
more birds on my permit that I need, and my neighbor could be 
out, or vice versa, and under a national order it would just be 
just a lot better for our industry.
    Mr. Ezell. What message would you like to convey to Members 
of Congress about the urgency of passing this legislation?
    And what will the repercussions be if the legislation is 
not passed?
    Mr. McGlawn. I think this bill is very important to get 
passed. You know, even though the individual permits are better 
than nothing and they seem to work, just because they work 
doesn't mean they could not be better. And a national 
depredation order would definitely be better overall for the 
catfish industry.
    Mr. Ezell. Thank you.
    And, you know, we need to get this done. This is very 
important not only to my State, but for the country. And you 
know, like I say, we have bipartisan support for this, and 
let's get this thing done.
    So thank you for that, Madam Chairman, I yield back.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you, and I agree with you. The Chair now 
recognizes Mr. Gray for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Gray. Thank you, Chair and Ranking Member, for holding 
this hearing, and thank you to the witnesses for joining us 
here today.
    As most of you know, adequate water supplies are crucial 
for wetlands, including both managing current conservation 
efforts and flooding agricultural lands.
    The region that I represent, the San Joaquin Valley, 
produces over 40 percent of the Nation's fruit and vegetable 
supply and over 90 percent of global production for a number of 
crops. In the last half century the focus in our region has 
largely been on conservation and habitat, and we have done very 
little to grow our water supply. It is important to conserve 
wetlands for the preservation of species in the region, while 
considering the economic impacts such efforts entail. And when 
I am often asked the three most important issues in my 
district, the answer is water, water, and water.
    You know, sufficient access to water supply has been our 
biggest challenge for decades. And currently, farmers in my 
district are losing real access to water that is critical to 
the survival of the farms and to producing the very food that 
Americans depend on. The reality is the Central Valley's 
agriculture economy requires both access to water but also a 
respect for wildlife. It is not really one or the other, and 
too often that is a false choice put in front of us in these 
jobs. I am committed to finding a balance where farmers have 
the necessary water they need to sustain our thriving 
agricultural community while both protecting wetlands and 
wildlife.
    My district is home to Grasslands Water District, which 
delivers water to one of the largest wetlands in the Central 
Valley. These wetlands are a key habitat for the migration of 
waterfowl species and vital for their protection. For many 
years, in collaboration with public and private partners 
including Ducks Unlimited, the Grasslands Water District has 
secured grant funding through the North American Wetlands 
Conservation Act for the conservation of these vital wetlands. 
However, additional funding is still needed to ensure long-term 
conservation efforts.
    Mr. Anderson, how does funding from the Pittman-Robertson 
Wildlife Restoration Act ensure local partners like the 
Grasslands Water District can secure necessary funding to 
support these efforts in the Central Valley?
    Mr. Anderson. Thank you for the question.
    I actually know the grasslands, and that is a beautiful 
spot, and it is pristine in many ways, one of the few wetlands 
left in California that is actually pristine.
    All the proposals to do some activity in the grasslands or 
other wetlands in California have to go through the proposal 
process. They have historically done very well in the proposal 
process because of the critical nature of those wetlands 
relative to the wildlife there.
    But all of our NAWCA-funded activities are done in close 
collaboration with other water users in the West because of the 
nature that you describe of it being a scarce commodity. And it 
is a collaborative process, not a combative process. And we 
don't look at it as a win-lose process, but we look at it as a 
win-win. And I think that the work we have done with NAWCA in 
Grasslands is very typical and indicative of our approach in 
that regard, that we see the farmers and ranchers as partners 
in this process, not as opponents. So the concept is to 
collaborate.
    Mr. Gray. Thank you. My understanding is that the Trump 
administration's Federal funding freeze has paused a number of 
grants allocated through the Conservation Act. Have you heard 
from organizations about their grant funding being paused?
    Mr. Anderson. I am not intimately familiar with that, but 
there have been some issues associated with uncertainty. My 
apologies. There have been some uncertainties associated with 
how the grant process is going to move forward, but I don't 
have anything definitive to add to that right now.
    Mr. Gray. Well, thank you.
    I look forward to working with my colleagues on both sides 
of the aisle to support funding avenues for State and Federal 
conservation efforts, as well as advanced water infrastructure.
    And with that, Madam Chair, I yield back my time.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes 
Representative Crank for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Crank. Thank you, Madam Chair, I appreciate that.
    I am an outdoorsman and sportsman, and spent my life doing 
that, and I am hoping my wife isn't listening to this, but I 
have spent an awful lot of money on conservation through my 
license fees.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Crank. But I think people don't understand the hunting 
and recreation community contributes a lot to economic activity 
at national, State, and local level. But according to a 2022 
report by the Sportsmen's Alliance, hunters generated $45.2 
billion in direct revenue, and that is more than the gross 
domestic product of 121 countries. They also contributed nearly 
$38 million per day in State, local, and Federal taxes. And in 
Colorado alone, 722,370 hunters spent $1.6 billion on hunting-
related purchases, and a portion of that revenue supports 
wildlife agencies and conservation efforts.
    And the hunting industry doesn't just generate economic 
value, it plays a critical role in conserving habitat and 
supporting species restoration. Through the Pittman-Robertson 
Act, hunters and shooters pay an excise tax on guns and 
ammunition, and this money funds wildlife conservation, hunting 
and shooting access, habitat restoration, hunter safety and 
education programs. And recreational shooting accounts for 
roughly 80 percent of the revenue in the Pittman-Robertson 
fund.
    However, when firearms, ammunition, or archery equipment 
sales decline, so does funding for conservation. And of course, 
the same principle applies to oil and gas revenue, where energy 
production is restricted, funding for education, habitat 
restoration, and local government also declines. Just a little 
economic lesson for some. Many people don't realize that 
sportsmen and women fund up to 80 percent, and in some cases, 
some States, 100 percent of State fish and wildlife agency 
budgets.
    So there is a lot of lip service about supporting 
conservation, and I hear it a lot. I get lectured about it a 
lot. But the funding for conservation comes out of my wallet, 
as a sportsman, and that is the reality. There is no group that 
funds it like the hunting and shooting community does because 
they can't. While other groups shy away from this 
responsibility, the sporting community embraces it, and we are 
proud of our role in protecting and managing America's natural 
resources.
    And I recently led a letter with my Republican colleagues 
in Colorado, including Mr. Hurd, who sits next to me, opposing 
Senate Bill 3 in Colorado, which threatens the Second Amendment 
rights of law-abiding citizens. If signed into law, it would 
have far-reaching impacts on our recreational shooting and 
hunting communities. And if it is passed it will reduce firearm 
sales, and that will inevitably lead to less revenue for the 
Pittman-Robertson Fund, weakening the very conservation efforts 
that bill sponsors claim to support in Colorado. I will ask Mr. 
Anderson.
    And thank you for joining us, Mr. Anderson, I know you are 
very familiar with Colorado, and thank you for being here. To 
see the continued growth in revenue in the Pittman-Robertson 
account, is it important for the States and Federal Government 
to implement policies that foster access to hunting, shooting, 
and the equipment necessary to participate?
    Mr. Anderson. Well, it is--in Colorado, I think Pittman-
Robertson funding itself is I think something like 40 percent 
of the State budget for the parks and wildlife. It has a huge 
impact on that. And as maybe you know, maybe you don't know, 
the way it is distributed among the different States is by the 
size of the State and by the number of active licenses in that 
State. So the States that have more hunting licenses get more 
Pittman-Robertson money.
    So not only if you suppress the sales of guns, but if you 
suppress the access and the ability of people to hunt in there, 
and so they choose not to get a license, you continue to chip 
away at your revenue sources from a State standpoint. And there 
has been some discussion among the sporting community, 
sportsmen's conservation communities, about how to potentially 
replace those funds in the event that it happens, as you 
describe our concern. But there is not a good, quick answer 
existing there right now. So as sales go down, it would 
definitely put pressure.
    Mr. Crank. Thank you.
    Thanks, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. And the Chair now recognizes the 
Chairman of the Natural Resource Committee, Mr. Westerman, for 
5 minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Westerman. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the 
witnesses for being here today.
    I can relate to my friend from Colorado and I guess I could 
kind of rephrase Tug McGraw's famous quote about how he spends 
his money, but, you know, I spend 90 percent of my money on 
guns, ammo, and fishing equipment, and the other 10 percent I 
probably waste. But we all, I think, have a great appreciation 
for the outdoors.
    And I want to thank the other Congressman from Colorado, 
Mr. Hurd, for his work on the Wetlands Conservation and 
Improvement Act. We know that NAWCA is an incredibly important 
program. It is very important to my home State of Arkansas, 
where 100,000 duck hunters or waterfowl hunters come each year 
to experience waterfowl hunting in our very pristine wetlands 
habitat.
    Mr. Anderson, I am not going to ask you to compare Colorado 
and Arkansas duck hunting.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Westerman. But I would ask you to explain how 
transferring the interest accrued on unobligated Pittman-
Robertson funds to NAWCA, how can that foster a cooperative and 
beneficial relationship between States and the waterfowl 
conservation community?
    Mr. Anderson. Well, your Arkansas duck hunters come to our 
State to hunt elk.
    But in terms of NAWCA, to answer your question directly, 
this bill is to augment the NAWCA funds from the Pittman-
Robertson Act trust fund. And every dollar that can go into the 
NAWCA program is going to be beneficial, at least twice as much 
because of the match requirements, probably more like three or 
four times as much. And that enables us to work cooperatively 
with all the interests, all the sportsmen's interests.
    But as I explained, I don't think you were in the room, but 
I know you know very well that NAWCA program requires a 
proposal, the proposals are competitive. They are distributed 
among the States as a function of the ranking system. Your 
State continues to rank very well because of the nature of your 
habitat there. But I think that the sportsmen's conservation 
community is quite satisfied that the proposal process itself 
does a very good job of distributing, by need, on the funds. 
And so they put the improvements and investments in the areas 
where they are going to do the most good for the species.
    Mr. Westerman. My colleague, Congressman Ezell from 
Mississippi, has also done work on a waterfowl issue with H.R. 
2293, the Cormorant Relief Act, or also known as water turkeys 
in Arkansas. I hear from a lot of constituents back home about 
the destructive impact of the double-crested cormorants and how 
the current permitting structure is unworkable and ineffective. 
I have been up in the Great Lakes area with other Members of 
Congress, and looked at the issue that cormorants create with 
smallmouth fry and walleye fry, and it is like they go do 
damage up there and then they migrate south and really make it 
hard for our catfish and bait farmers to make a living.
    Mr. McGlawn, can you explain to the Committee why the 
current permitting structure is unworkable?
    Mr. McGlawn. Thank you, and don't necessarily say that I 
would say it is unworkable, it is just a little inefficient and 
we could simplify it and just make it easier.
    Where we have issues with it is, like I said, we don't know 
the population numbers that are going to come down each year. 
And it is not necessarily just the migratory population. We are 
starting to get a resident population also. So we have these 
cormorants, staying year-round on the farm, where typically, 15 
years ago, it was from November all the way to May.
    But we just need a national, you know, depredation order to 
be able to take birds when necessary off the farm.
    Mr. Westerman. Thank you.
    And Mr. Baker, I quickly want to ask you, would you feel 
pressured to sell your property if your neighbors began to sell 
their lands to the Federal Government because of the 
checkerboard effect it would create?
    Mr. Baker. Yes, I could see where some panic selling might 
take place. Maybe the decrease in the property value because of 
this expansion of this might cause more tax to be paid for the 
guys that are outside that circle. So yes, I could see 
definitely some panic selling taking place out of that.
    Mr. Westerman. Thank you, Madam Chair. I am out of time.
    Ms. Hageman. Wonderful. The Chair now recognizes Mr. 
Webster for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Webster. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. I only have 
one question that I can think of. This is for Mr. McGlawn.
    Aquaculture is important in my State, the State of Florida, 
and an important industry, and a lot of things happen there 
about that. And the problem is, as has been already said a 
couple of times, the Federal intervention, especially with the 
Endangered Species Act and misapplication of that, and improper 
use of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, all of that kind of 
hampers the growth of the industry. And can you tell me how 
Representative Ezell's bill would streamline the permitting and 
allow for growth in the industry?
    Mr. McGlawn. Yes, sir, and thank you.
    Basically, Fish and Wildlife Service would approve one 
permit instead of thousands each year. So it would be time-
wise; they would be able to just simplify the process and make 
it more efficient.
    And if the permit is more available to us and easily 
available to us, we can control the population of birds and, 
you know, that is just more fish that we have to sell on the 
farm every year. That is less fish that the birds are eating. 
So that in turn will help the industry grow.
    Mr. Webster. OK. Thank you very much.
    Mr. McGlawn. Thank you.
    Ms. Hageman. Would you yield to the Chair the remainder of 
your time? To me?
    Mr. Webster. Yes.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. I just wanted to send a message 
from Representative Jodey Arrington, and he just wanted to make 
sure that everyone understood that the critical habitat that he 
is interested in preserving is the freedom-loving, rural 
Americans; and the endangered species he is interested in 
protecting are the farmers and ranchers. So I thought that that 
was a message well worth providing to everyone here today.
    And the Chair now recognizes Mr. Hurd for 5 minutes of 
questioning.
    Mr. Hurd. Thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman.
    Mr. Anderson, I know you said that you were recently 
retired, but it looks like you are still hard at work, so thank 
you for all that you and Ducks Unlimited do for sportsmen and 
for conservation in our home State of Colorado, but beyond, as 
well, and across the country. You said something in your 
testimony I wanted to ask you about very quickly.
    You said hunters and anglers have paid for conservation, 
ensuring that our country was taken from the brink of wildlife 
decimation in the early 1900s to a renaissance of wildlife 
abundance today. Can you tell us what would be the impact if 
Congress fails to reauthorize this authority? What would it 
mean for wetlands?
    Mr. Anderson. Thank you for the question.
    The reality today is that we are still losing wetlands at a 
pretty significant pace. A significant part of that is on the 
Gulf, where we are having a lot of issues with erosion, but 
also all across the country. Every State is losing wetlands.
    The efforts of NAWCA and other programs that Ducks 
Unlimited participates with, along with the other folks in the 
conservation community that are interested in wetlands, we are 
not overcoming that problem. We are just slowing it right now. 
The less resources we have, the less effort we will be able to 
expend to stem that tide. And these monies that we are talking 
about in this bill are important.
    Again, as I mentioned earlier, we have the ability in this 
program to magnify the value of those funds. And in doing so we 
can have a significant impact, more than just what appears to 
be the value associated with this particular trust fund 
interest itself. It gets multiplied. So from that standpoint, 
it is a very substantial part of the effort that is going to go 
on across this country towards wetlands. But without it, we are 
just losing faster.
    Mr. Hurd. Would it be fair to say that this legislation is 
critical for wetlands across the country?
    Mr. Anderson. We certainly feel it is.
    Mr. Hurd. As you know, the Pittman-Robertson Act is funded 
by excise taxes on firearms and ammunition. In our home State 
of Colorado we have seen an increasing number of restrictions 
on the Second Amendment rights of our citizens, and these 
policies and laws are making it harder for law-abiding citizens 
to purchase firearms and ammunition, including hunting gear. 
Given that this excise tax revenue funds programs like NAWCA, 
do you believe Second Amendment restrictions could threaten the 
long-term sustainability of conservation efforts that rely on 
this model?
    Mr. Anderson. I think significant restriction would 
definitely damage it. Sportsmen and women have been willing 
funders of conservation for 100 years, and anything that makes 
those ranks smaller takes away the potential for that funding.
    Mr. Hurd. Great. Thank you, Mr. Anderson. Thank you to our 
other witnesses.
    Madam Chair, I yield the remainder of my time back to you.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Mr. 
Walberg for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Walberg. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
    As one of the many hunters and anglers on this Committee, I 
am pleased that we are considering legislation today that would 
help preserve the wildlife habitat we all enjoy and we are all 
stewards of.
    Having the privilege of representing Michigan's 5th 
district, which includes both Lake Erie and Lake Michigan as 
bookends, I know the importance of the Pittman-Robertson 
funding and the important role NAWCA plays in wildlife habitat 
restoration, especially in wetlands. Sitting in a duck blind, 
in fact, one that probably former Chairman and Representative 
Dingell sat in, with friends and with family, watching the 
sunrise over Lake Erie, for example, in spite of the presence 
of cormorants to the extreme, is something that we want to pass 
along to the generations to come as what we enjoy. In Michigan 
alone, NAWCA has contributed over $23 million in funding, 
matched with nearly $67 million in partner contributions to 
conserve over 63,000 acres of habitat.
    Mr. Anderson, in your written testimony you outlined the 
significant impact that both Pittman-Robertson and NAWCA have 
had on projects in Colorado, and the importance of ensuring 
these funds are preserved but managed with common-sense 
approach. Why is it important that we allow the unallocated 
Pittman-Robertson funds to be used for NAWCA, and what would it 
mean for hunters like those in my home State of Michigan?
    Mr. Anderson. Thank you for that question.
    Michigan is a very active spot for Ducks Unlimited and 
NAWCA because of the opportunities that exist there with the 
Great Lakes being a very critical, important historic migration 
corridor. That is probably the birds that you have enjoyed in 
that duck blind.
    As I mentioned earlier, that every resource we can get 
improves our ability to perform the job right now. And with the 
amount of pressure on the resource for land, other land uses, 
other water uses, also the pressure that is occurring because 
of climate variability, it is a critical point right now to 
have as much funding as is practical and available to try to 
address those kind of challenges.
    But Ducks Unlimited is very active in that Great Lakes area 
right now, with--Ducks Unlimited is--with a significant amount 
of NAWCA funding and other resources, as well, trying to answer 
it on behalf of your constituents.
    Mr. Walberg. Yes, and it is having some significant impact.
    Mr. Anderson. Absolutely, yes.
    Mr. Walberg. Thank you. I would like to quickly turn to the 
Great Lakes Fishery Research Reauthorization Act.
    This bipartisan legislation would reauthorize the Great 
Lakes Fishery Research Program within the USGS. The program 
helps support the important work done by the Great Lakes 
Fisheries Commission, and provides critical research that helps 
ensure States can implement sound fisheries management 
practices. For example, the binational work has helped reduce 
the destructive sea lamprey population in the Great Lakes.
    So I thank the Chair for considering this legislation, and 
her continued support for the Great Lakes.
    I am willing to yield time back to the Chair.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you very much. I want to thank the 
witnesses for your valuable time and testimony here today, and 
also for the members for their participation and the questions.
    The members of the Committee may have some additional 
questions for the witnesses, and we will ask you to respond to 
those in writing if they are received. Under Committee rule 3, 
members of the Committee must submit such questions to the 
Subcommittee clerk by 5 p.m. Eastern on Friday, April 11, and 
the hearing record will be held open for 10 business days for 
these responses.
    Without objection, the Subcommittee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:56 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

            [ADDITIONAL MATERIALS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD]

Submissions for the Record by Rep. Hoyle

                         Opposition to H.R. 839

                                                  April 7, 2025    

Hon. Harriet Hageman, Chair
Hon. Val Hoyle, Ranking Member
Subcommittee on Water, Wildlife, and Fisheries
1324 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515

    Dear Chair Hageman and Ranking Member Hoyle,

    On behalf of our 37 organizations and our combined millions of 
members and supporters, we write to express our strong opposition to 
H.R. 839, a bill introduced by Rep. Arrington that would prohibit the 
implementation of the Land Protection Plan for Muleshoe National 
Wildlife Refuge. This damaging bill will be the subject of a House 
Natural Resources Subcommittee on Water, Wildlife, and Fisheries 
hearing on April 8, 2025. We request this letter be included in the 
hearing record.
    The Muleshoe National Wildlife Refuge protects important habitats 
in the Southern High Plains, including grasslands, playa wetlands, and 
saline lakes. The oldest national wildlife refuge in Texas, Muleshoe 
was established on October 24, 1935, by Executive Order No. 7214, ``for 
the use . . . as a refuge and breeding ground for migratory birds and 
other wildlife . . . '' The refuge is home to a population of lesser 
prairie-chicken listed as endangered under the Endangered Species Act 
(ESA), as well as sandhill crane, pronghorn, and hundreds of other 
species. Protecting and expanding Muleshoe is crucial to help combat 
the growing biodiversity crisis.
    The Land Protection Plan targeted by H.R. 839 is a comprehensive 
document developed by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) to guide 
the growth of the Refuge within an approved acquisition boundary. It 
was finalized in April 2024 after 15 years of research, cooperation, 
and planning. In this document, FWS proposed to establish a voluntary 
land acquisition program to better protect the vulnerable species of 
Muleshoe. Up to 700,000 acres of wildlife habitat could be added to the 
Refuge, although progress toward that total is expected to proceed 
slowly over many years.
    Expansion of Muleshoe National Wildlife Refuge is important for the 
recovery of the lesser prairie-chicken, whose survival depends on 
protection of its habitat. The species was once common throughout the 
region. Today, however, 92% of its natural habitat has been lost and 
its population has declined by 97%. Lesser prairie-chicken require 
large, unfragmented areas of native grasslands to thrive. Each breeding 
site, called a lek, encompasses up to 50,000 acres and must be 
connected to other leks by intact habitat to maintain a healthy 
population. The species faces extirpation in the region without 
adequate conservation measures. Preventing further habitat loss and 
fragmentation is key to eventually removing lesser prairie-chicken from 
the endangered species list.
    Rep. Arrington bases his opposition to the expansion of Muleshoe 
National Wildlife Refuge on concerns that private landowners will be 
forced to sell their property, face new regulations and that property 
tax revenue for local communities will be reduced. Exploring these 
concerns reveals that opposition to the expansion of the Refuge is 
largely based on misinformation. Under the express terms of the Plan, 
FWS will ``acquir[e] lands only from willing sellers'', so no landowner 
is ever forced or pressured to sell. In any event, any such force or 
pressure would be in violation of longstanding FWS land acquisition 
policy and practice, see 341 FW 1 (Feb. 26, 1996) (``Policy and 
Responsibilities--Land Acquisition''). Next, being within the 
acquisition boundary imposes no new regulations on landowners and does 
not restrict their property rights. Rather, it offers greater 
flexibility, providing landowners with an opportunity to sell their 
land at market value and permanently protect it as part of the Refuge 
System. Finally, while FWS does not pay property taxes on refuge land, 
lost revenue is offset through payments under the Refuge Revenue 
Sharing Act and by the boost in local economic activity generated by 
ecotourism.
    If Rep. Arrington's bill becomes law, it could have long-lasting 
consequences that undermine science-based management of our public 
lands, the ability of the Refuge System to fulfill its statutory 
mandate for strategic growth, and the recovery of ESA-listed species. 
For these reasons, our organizations strongly oppose H.R. 839 and urge 
you to do the same.

            Sincerely,

        American Bird Conservancy     Large Carnivore Fund

        Born Free USA                 Los Angeles Audubon Society

        Californians for Western 
        Wilderness                    National Wildlife Refuge 
                                      Association

        Center for Biological 
        Diversity                     New Hampshire Audubon

        Christian Council of 
        Delmarva                      NY4WHALES

        Coast Range Association       Orleans Audubon Society

        Creating Common Ground        REI

        Defenders of Wildlife         Resource Renewal Institute

        Endangered Habitats League    Save the Manatee Club

        Endangered Species 
        Coalition                     Species Unite

        Environment America           The Urban Wildlands Group

        Environment Texas             Turtle Island Restoration Network

        Environmental Protection 
        Information Center--EPIC      Voice for Animals

        Fin and Fur Films             Western Nebraska Resources 
                                      Council

        FOUR PAWS USA                 Western Watersheds Project

        Friends of the Earth          Wray-Todd Ranch

        Friends of the Sonoran 
        Desert                        Wyoming Untrapped

        Heartwood                     Yaak Valley Forest Council

        International Crane 
        Foundation

                                 ______
                                 

                Healing Our Waters-Great Lakes Coalition

                                                  April 7, 2025    

Hon. Harriet Hageman, Chair
Hon. Val Hoyle, Ranking Member
Subcommittee on Water, Wildlife and Fisheries
1324 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515

    Dear Chair Hageman and Ranking Member Hoyle:

    On behalf of the Healing Our Waters-Great Lakes Coalition, I write 
in support of H.R. 1809, the Great Lakes Fishery Research 
Reauthorization Act.
    The Great Lakes Science Center (GLSC) is the biological research 
center of the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) in the Great Lakes region 
with a mission to advance scientific research and support the 
restoration, enhancement, management, and protection of Great Lakes 
fish and wildlife. The GLSC staff responds to the needs of federal 
agencies, Great Lakes state and local governments, communities, and 
Tribes. It provides critical biological and ecological data and 
analysis that decisionmakers rely on to protect aquatic resources and 
communities across the region.
    The GLSC fisheries science program is foundational for fishery 
management decisions on all five Great Lakes. After years of 
underinvestment, the passage of a dedicated funding source under the 
Great Lakes Fishery Research Authorization Act, included within the 
Further Consolidated Appropriations Act of 2020 (P.L. 116-94), served 
as a critical catalyst for science in the region. It allowed the GLSC 
to execute a comprehensive, multi-lake, freshwater fisheries science 
program coordinating its work with other governments so that management 
is cooperative, efficient, and effective.
    This legislation will enable the GLSC to continue its work, 
building upon its ongoing deep-water ecosystem science, shedding light 
on biological and food web components, helping us better understand 
fish movement and behavior, conducting fish habitat investigations, and 
contribute to invasive species knowledge and management. Moreover, the 
GLFRA will encourage the GLSC to integrate new technologies for 
fisheries science into the basin's research and management structure. 
All critical efforts to the long-term protection of the region's $5.1 
billion a year recreational fishing economy.
    The Healing Our Waters-Great Lakes Coalition supports H.R. 1809 and 
encourages the subcommittee to move forward to marking up this 
legislation as soon as practicable.
    Please feel free to reach out to our Coalition's Senior Program 
Manager, Alexis Lopez-Cepero, at [email protected] with any 
questions,

            Sincerely,

                                               Laura Rubin,
                                                           Director

                                 ______
                                 
Submissions for the Record by Rep. Hurd

        Wetlands Conservation and Access Improvement Act of 2025

                                                  April 7, 2025    

Hon. Harriet Hageman, Chairwoman
Hon.Val Hoyle, Ranking Member
House Natural Resources Committee
1324 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515

    Dear Chairwoman Hageman and Ranking Member Hoyle,

    We, the undersigned sportsmen and other conservation organizations 
representing millions of hunters, anglers, outdoor recreationists, and 
businesses across the United States, thank you for holding a hearing on 
H.R. 2316, the Wetlands Conservation and Access Improvement Act of 
2025. This bipartisan bill will help conserve and protect wetlands 
across the nation and is strongly supported by the undersigned.
    The passage of the Pittman-Robertson Act in 1937 shifted the 
paradigm of how conservation was approached, with hunters and 
recreational shooters leading the charge by providing much-needed 
funding to wildlife and their habitats through the redirection of 
excise taxes on firearms and ammunition (later amended to include 
archery equipment). This legacy of collaboration between sportsmen and 
women, state wildlife agencies, and firearm, ammunition, and archery 
equipment manufacturers was strengthened with the creation of the North 
American Wetlands Conservation Act (NAWCA) in 1989. Together, these 
laws serve as critical resources to the foundation supporting our North 
American Wildlife Conservation Model.
    Funds secured through the Pittman-Robertson Act support wildlife 
restoration, conservation, hunter education, and ultimately, 
recreational access through efforts led by state game and fish 
agencies. Because this transfer of funds from the federal government to 
state agencies does not happen immediately, the Pittman-Robertson Act 
allows the secretary of the Treasury to invest these funds in interest-
bearing U.S. treasuries. Consolidating this interest with NAWCA funds 
enhances the effectiveness of both programs, which improve water 
quality and quantity through wetland conservation and ensure robust 
public access by enhancing our wild places.
    H.R. 2316 will continue to allow Pittman-Robertson's interest 
investment in NAWCA conservation through 2033. Your leadership on this 
issue will ensure that funds captured through the Pittman-Robertson Act 
for critical wildlife conservation and habitat restoration are invested 
efficiently, providing the biggest bang for the buck for the American 
taxpayer.
    We stand ready to work with our industry partners to advance this 
critical legislation and ensure its successful passage. We look forward 
to assisting you and your staff with this critical legislation, which 
will support the continued success of the North American Model of 
Wildlife Conservation for the benefit of future generations.

            Sincerely,

        Association of Fish & 
        Wildlife Agencies             Pheasants Forever

        California Waterfowl 
        Association                   Quail Forever

        Congressional Sportsmen's 
        Foundation                    Safari Club International

        Delta Waterfowl               The Conservation Fund

        Ducks Unlimited               Theodore Roosevelt Conservation 
                                      Partnership

        National Shooting Sports 
        Foundation                    Wildlife Mississippi

        National Wild Turkey 
        Federation

                                 ______
                                 
Submissions for the Record by Rep. Arrington

    Dallas Morning News article, Why I Oppose the Muleshoe Wildlife 
                            Refuge Expansion

[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

The full document is available for viewing at:

https://docs.house.gov/meetings/II/II13/20250408/118118/HHRG-
119-II13-20250408-SD001.pdf

                                 [all]