[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                     FROM RESET TO ROLLOUT: CAN THE
                    VA EHRM PROGRAM FINALLY DELIVER?

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                SUBCOMMITTEE ON TECHNOLOGY MODERNIZATION

                                 OF THE

                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                       MONDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 2025

                               __________

                            Serial No. 119-6

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
       
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]       


                    Available via http://govinfo.gov                    

                                __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
59-864                        WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------                     
                   
                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman

AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking 
    American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman      Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               JULIA BROWNLEY, California
NANCY MACE, South Carolina           CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa       SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina        Florida
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin         MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas               DELIA RAMIREZ, Illinois
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois
KEITH SELF, Texas                    TIMOTHY M. KENNEDY, New York
JEN KIGGANS, Virginia                MAXINE DEXTER, Oregon
ABE HAMADEH, Arizona                 HERB CONAWAY, New Jersey
KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern       KELLY MORRISON, Minnesota
    Mariana Islands
TOM BARRETT, Michigan

                       Jon Clark, Staff Director
                  Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director

                SUBCOMMITTEE ON TECHNOLOGY MODERNIZATION

                    TOM BARRETT, Michigan, Chairman

NANCY MACE, South Carolina           NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois, Ranking 
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas                   Member
                                     SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
                                         Florida

Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public 
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also 
published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the 
official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare 
both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process 
of converting between various electronic formats may introduce 
unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the 
current publication process and should diminish as the process is 
further refined.
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                       MONDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 2025

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

The Honorable Tom Barrett, Chairman..............................     1
The Honorable Nikki Budzinski, Ranking Member....................     3

                               WITNESSES

Dr. Neil Evans, M.D., Acting Program Executive Director, 
  Electronic Health Record Modernization Integration Office, U.S. 
  Department of Veterans Affairs.................................     5

The Honorable Seema Verma, Executive Vice President, Oracle 
  Health and Oracle Life Sciences, Oracle Corporation............     7

Mr. David Case, Acting Inspector General, Office of Inspector 
  General, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs...................     9

Ms. Carol Harris, Director, Information Technology and 
  Cybersecurity Issues, U.S. Government Accountability Office....    11

                                APPENDIX
                    Prepared Statements Of Witnesses

Dr. Neil Evans, M.D. Prepared Statement..........................    39
The Honorable Seema Verma Prepared Statement.....................    41
Mr. David Case Prepared Statement................................    57
Ms. Carol Harris Prepared Statement..............................    68

 
                     FROM RESET TO ROLLOUT: CAN THE
                    VA EHRM PROGRAM FINALLY DELIVER?

                              ----------                              


                       MONDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 2025

  Subcommittee on Technology Modernization,
                    Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                             U.S. House of Representatives,
                                                   Washington, D.C.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 3:01 p.m., in 
room 360, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Tom Barrett 
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Barrett, Luttrell, and Budzinski.

           OPENING STATEMENT OF TOM BARRETT, CHAIRMAN

    Mr. Barrett. Good afternoon. The first Technology and 
Modernization Subcommittee hearing of the 119th Congress will 
come to order.
    I want to thank the witnesses for being here today to 
discuss the Electronic Health Record Modernization (EHRM) 
program at the Veterans Affairs (VA). Appreciate your 
willingness to participate and help in this conversation.
    Before we get to the business of today's hearing, I want to 
first congratulate and welcome my fellow Midwesterner, 
Representative Nikki Budzinski from Illinois, on becoming the 
ranking member of this subcommittee.
    We had a great meeting in my office a few weeks ago and 
participated in a roundtable earlier already and really 
appreciate your partnership in this effort.
    Your position as ranking member is a testament to your hard 
work for veterans and the goodwill you have built with your 
colleagues on both sides of the aisle and look forward to 
continuing to build that relationship together.
    Our work on this committee will not always be easy, but our 
mission is critical. That is why I am deeply honored to chair 
this subcommittee and lead the House's oversight over VA's 
Information Technology (IT) systems, infrastructure, and 
modernization projects.
    By way of background, I served 22 years in the United 
States Army before retiring and becoming one of the thousands 
of veterans in Michigan that receive their healthcare and 
benefits from the VA. I personally go to the Battle Creek VA 
Medical Center. I used the Montgomery GI Bill to pay for my 
college. I understand what veterans in Michigan and across the 
country need and expect from the VA.
    I am going to use my leadership position here to make sure 
that VA's IT systems are working for all veterans and employees 
of the VA and ultimately making the VA a more effective and 
efficient organization.
    Whether you are making primary care appointments, filling a 
disability claim, applying for education benefits, none of that 
happens successfully without good, reliable, and secure IT 
systems.
    Perhaps the largest undertaking on this committee will be 
oversight of the VA's Electronic Health Record (EHR) and the 
efforts that are going into that today. It is the backbone of 
VA's healthcare operations.
    The Electronic Health Record Modernization program is VA's 
project to replace its homegrown Electronic Health Record 
system with a commercial, off-the-shelf EHR from Oracle.
    This subcommittee has spent hundreds of hours over the last 
several years conducting oversight over this program and 
exposing, reviewing, and analyzing its issues and its problems.
    While I am new to this conversation, I have spent 
considerable time looking into this issue. I understand how 
important it is for us to get this right.
    These consistent problems include system outages, patient 
harm, poorly functioning technology, budget overruns, reduced 
patient volumes, and more.
    Because of these problems, former Secretary McDonough put 
the program in an indefinite pause in April 2023 to give VA and 
Oracle time to fix a long list of problems with the system.
    The Secretary decided right before Christmas that VA was 
going to start the program up again in the spring of 2026 at 
Ann Arbor, Battle Creek, Detroit, and Saginaw in my home state 
of Michigan.
    Two years ago, VA told this committee they had a lot of 
homework to do before they put this system into another medical 
center. Now VA is getting ready to turn in their homework.
    I appreciate the opportunity to meet with both Oracle and 
VA several times before this hearing to discuss the problems 
that have plagued this system for years.
    While I am not convinced that they have fixed all of the 
problems, I want to hear today from VA and Oracle directly to 
this subcommittee the progress that has come out of the last 2 
years.
    As the new chairman of this subcommittee, I am going to 
examine the facts, consult my colleagues on this subcommittee, 
and make my own judgments based on what progress has been made.
    Here are some of the facts as they stand today.
    First, VA is nearly 7 years into the original 10-year 
contract and the Oracle EHR has been implemented in less than 4 
percent of medical centers.
    Second, according to the latest surveys, 69 percent of 
users are dissatisfied with the system; 75 percent of users 
believe the system does not maximize their efficiency. I told 
someone earlier that the approval rating is less than that of 
Congress, and that is a hard thing to do.
    Third, Congress has not received a schedule nor an up-to-
date cost estimate to evaluate this program's current state. 
The only independent cost estimate we can rely on for what it 
will cost VA to implement this program is already 3 years old 
and it was over $32 billion. That is more than double VA's 
original estimate of $16.1 billion.
    Given these facts, the VA needs to demonstrate how this 
system has improved and explain why this program can succeed 
before starting up again.
    I have confidence in the Trump administration and Secretary 
Collins to right the ship for veterans and their families, and 
I intend to work closely with him to deliver results. It is my 
commitment to this subcommittee and the stakeholders here that 
I will be firm but fair in the oversight we provide.
    Thank you all again for being here today. I look forward to 
your testimony. I look forward to achieving the accountability 
that all of us should expect.
    With that, I yield to Ranking Member Budzinski for her 
opening statement.

      OPENING STATEMENT OF NIKKI BUDZINSKI, RANKING MEMBER

    Ms. Budzinski. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I want to 
start out as well congratulating you on your chairmanship of 
the Subcommittee on Technology and Modernization and to say 
genuinely how much I look forward to working with you on this 
issue.
    In addition, I am working on this issue as the ranking 
member because I think it is so important that we are ensuring 
that veterans and VA employees have the access to state-of-the-
art technology that supports the delivery of healthcare and 
benefits for our veterans.
    I also want to thank the witnesses for being here today to 
discuss the future of EHRM, this project, and for coming in a 
couple of weeks ago to help me get up to speed on a lot of 
these issues.
    We had a robust discussion about the history and the 
current status of this project, which I really appreciated, and 
I look forward to working with all of you to support the 
progress that has been made to ensure that the EHRM moves 
forward in a safe and smart way.
    In almost 2 years since the VA announced its reset of the 
EHRM program we have worked in a bipartisan and bicameral way 
with VA and Oracle to move the needle on this project.
    In December, as the chairman mentioned, VA announced its 
intention to resume go-live activities with the first 
deployment happening in mid-2026.
    I want to take this time to outline some of my concerns, 
many of them that I have shared that the chairman has actually 
already outlined, about the lack of progress being made by both 
VA and Oracle on a series of issues that ultimately impact our 
mission here, which is to address the betterment of veteran 
health and safety.
    Last month VA briefed my staff that there were still dozens 
of outstanding recommendations from the VA's Office of the 
Inspector General (OIG) and the Government Accountability 
Office (GAO), recommendations that VA acknowledged it needs to 
fix, and yet little has been made on progress on those issues.
    It seems to me that these recommendations need to be 
addressed before any other go-lives are allowed to occur. I 
hope to hear from VA about how it intends to address these open 
issues before its planned resumption of go-lives next summer. I 
think that is important.
    I am also concerned about the rollout of the 3b 
bidirectional interface intended to fix major issues with how 
Oracle supports VA's pharmacy operations.
    I understand that 3b was deployed this weekend, but it 
sounds like it is suffering from some of the same issues that 
the system did during its initial go-lives.
    The training is substandard and behind schedule, and staff 
are concerned that the solutions will not meet their needs.
    The 3b solution was meant to solve problems that were 
identified at Mann-Grandstaff, the first site to go live in 
2020. Yet here we are, almost 4 years later, and I am concerned 
that this is still not fully ready.
    The lack of these fixes has caused VA pharmacy to hire 
additional people and use onerous workarounds to accomplish the 
same tasks they did in Veterans Health Information Systems and 
Technology Architecture (VistA). These fixes are desperately 
needed, but they need to be done right and we cannot afford any 
more half measures.
    Also, I have some major concerns about how the recent 
reduction in force actions at the Department are going to 
impact VA's ability to move this project forward.
    I know that Secretary Collins says these actions will not 
impact veterans' access to healthcare and benefits, but I do 
not see how cuts to a historically understaffed VA do not 
impact veterans and specifically the implementation of this 
program and our look ahead to these go-lives potentially in 
2026.
    I have questions about how many people in the EHRM 
Integration Office were terminated under the probationary 
employee purge, how many opted to take the ``Fork in the 
Road,'' and how many others may have been purged through other 
methods.
    I also have questions about how the hiring freeze is 
impacting EHRM. I expect the VA has a plan to compensate for 
these vacancies in this crucial program and I need to hear 
about that plan today.
    My biggest concern as we continue overseeing the EHRM 
program is ensuring that veterans' health and safety remain the 
top priority throughout this implementation.
    However, VA's track record has not always aligned with this 
commitment, oftentimes prioritizing speed over execution.
    VA rushed into this contract, accepting a false assumption 
that it had to be on the same system to be interoperable with 
Department of Defense (DOD).
    It rushed into system configuration without doing the 
standardization work needed to make the transition smooth.
    It rushed to go live, even though we were in the middle of 
a pandemic and all the VA staff were already overworked.
    It then rushed to move on from its initial failures.
    VA even allowed DOD to rush them into another go-live just 
so DOD could finish its project.
    We cannot allow VA to rush into the resumption of go-live 
activities using the same old playbook they have used up until 
this point. The Department must focus on improving their 
protocols, training, and efficiency on the front end before 
hastily implementing another go-live.
    I want to say, though, we should be working toward this go-
live. I have all of these concerns. I think it is important 
they be articulated. I do want to get to a point where we can 
see this being successful, but I need to hear meaningfully how 
these concerns are being addressed before we can do this.
    The focus should be on improving staff training, for 
example, to ensure the tools and skills to be able to use the 
software most efficiently.
    The focus should be on establishing a structured project 
management timeline, something that I think the chairman has 
also brought up, with benchmarks and deadlines that must be met 
to push the project to the next step and eventually go live.
    The focus should be on implementing a system that maximizes 
efficiency within the VA and allows providers to have seamless 
communication with other elements of the care delivery system.
    We quite simply owe it to veterans and VA employees to 
ensure that they have the resources and technology they need 
for high-quality, safe, and effective care.
    I look forward to this conversation.
    Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you, Ranking Member Budzinski.
    I would like to introduce our witnesses.
    From the Department of Veterans Affairs we have Dr. Neil 
Evans, acting program executive director of the Electronic 
Health Record Modernization Integration Office.
    Did I get all that right, sir? All right.
    From Oracle we have the honorable Seema Verma, executive 
vice president and general manager of Oracle Health and Life 
Sciences.
    From the Government Accountability Office we have Ms. Carol 
Harris, the director of IT and cybersecurity at GAO.
    From the Office of Inspector General we have Mr. David 
Case, the acting inspector general of VA OIG.
    I ask the witnesses to please stand and raise your right 
hands.
    [Witnesses sworn.]
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you.
    Let the record reflect that all witnesses have answered in 
the affirmative.
    Dr. Evans, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver 
your opening statement on behalf of VA.

                    STATEMENT OF NEIL EVANS

    Dr. Evans. Thank you. Good afternoon, Chairman Barrett, 
Ranking Member Budzinski, and distinguished members of the 
subcommittee.
    I want to thank Congress and this subcommittee for the 
opportunity to testify today. VA recognizes and appreciates 
your shared commitment to veterans and your support for VA's 
Electronic Health Record Modernization efforts.
    This testimony comes at a pivotal moment. With new 
leadership at VA there is renewed commitment to ensuring that 
every aspect of our EHR modernization effort is reevaluated.
    Secretary Collins made it clear in his confirmation hearing 
that the status quo is not acceptable. Every previous decision, 
policy, and process must be thoroughly reviewed to ensure that 
it aligns with our core mission--providing veterans with the 
highest quality care through a system that works for them, not 
against them.
    Accordingly, VA remains committed to implementing modern 
interoperable health information technologies across the entire 
VA healthcare system.
    The Federal EHR, which is the set of technologies we are 
deploying through our Electronic Health Record modernization 
efforts, works in concert with biomedical devices and other 
critical health information technologies, and these together 
will serve as key enablers behind VA's ability to deliver 
comprehensive high-quality healthcare to veterans for many 
years to come.
    Between 2020 and 2022, VA deployed the system at 5 VA 
medical centers, 22 community-based outpatient centers, and 52 
remote VA sites that serve those clinical locations, for 
example, call centers, telehealth hubs, and more.
    In April 2023, veterans and staff had made it clear that 
the system was not meeting expectations. With bipartisan 
support from this committee, and consistent with 
recommendations shared by GAO and OIG, VA announced a 
comprehensive program reset, pausing further deployments of the 
system and taking time to address issues that have been 
identified by users at active sites.
    VA also identified the reset period as an opportunity to 
complete foundational enterprise work necessary for long-term 
success, operating a far more centralized set of technologies 
than VA's existing Electronic Health Record.
    Finally, VA used the reset period to prepare for and then 
successfully complete a joint VA-DOD deployment of the Federal 
EHR at the Captain James A. Lovell Federal Healthcare Center 
(FHCC) in North Chicago, Illinois, just under a year ago in 
March 2024.
    Relying on a data-driven approach to assessing progress, VA 
demonstrated improvements in system stability, program 
processes, veteran and VA staff experiences, and finally, 
health system outcomes, including quality, clinical 
productivity, and revenue management.
    In light of that demonstrated progress, on December 20 of 
2024, VA announced that it was going to restart Federal EHR 
deployment efforts initially at the four aforementioned 
Michigan facilities in Ann Arbor, Battle Creek, Detroit, and 
Saginaw.
    I should add this: VA acknowledges that there is still 
improvement work to be done, as you will likely hear from GAO 
and OIG, and we agree. Improvement efforts are not stopping. We 
are simply, in addition to those improvement efforts, resuming 
deployment work in parallel.
    Examples of ongoing improvement efforts include migration 
of the system to Oracle's cloud infrastructure for improved 
performance of the system and access to Oracle's next-
generation technologies.
    Establishment of a Federal EHR system baseline and 
associated processes, which is a critically necessary step in 
support of improved standardization across VA, which will help 
lessen staff frustration, deployment delays, and cost.
    Further training improvements to better support user 
adoption.
    Standardization and consolidation of user roles in the 
system, which will simplify training and everyday use of the 
system for VA staff.
    Completion of crosscutting projects that we have called 
``big rocks,'' which include reassessing system design choices 
in order to deliver a better and more efficient user 
experience.
    There is much more.
    Meanwhile, current state reviews, the initial activities 
necessary to deploy the Federal EHR, have been in progress at 
the Michigan sites mentioned earlier since the first week of 
January, and those are going well.
    We are also working closely with Veterans Health 
Administration (VHA) health system leaders and with Oracle 
Health to determine deployment plans beyond the Michigan sites. 
These decisions will support the iterative development of a 
revised integrated master schedule in addition to updated cost 
estimates for this project.
    Through the efforts of the recent program reset and through 
our collaboration within VA with our end users, with 
leadership, and with veterans, and outside of VA with DOD, 
Federal Electronic Health Record Modernization (FEHRM), 
oversight bodies, and our vendor partners, we are seeing 
movement--yes, even momentum--in the right direction. By 
sustaining these efforts our velocity should increase over 
time.
    VA remains optimistic to realize the successful 
implementation of the Federal EHR across VA. I appreciate this 
opportunity to testify and am thankful for this committee for 
your commitment to serving veterans, and look forward to 
working with you over the course of the 119th Congress.
    We look forward to responding to any questions you might 
have.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Neil Evans Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Barrett. Thank you, Dr. Evans.
    The written statement of Dr. Evans will be entered into the 
hearing record.
    Ms. Verma, you are now recognized for 5 minutes for your 
opening statement on behalf of Oracle.

                    STATEMENT OF SEEMA VERMA

    Ms. Verma. Thank you, Chairman Barrett, Ranking Member 
Budzinski, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. Thank 
you for the opportunity to speak with you today.
    The VA's EHR Modernization program is at a turning point as 
we begin work to restart deployments in Michigan. The 
preparations will take place this year, with the deployments 
occurring in early 2026.
    I say turning point because we have several factors that 
have come into alignment.
    First, a new administration that is committed to 
accelerating.
    Second, we have completed countless optimizations and 
improvements, including with pharmacy just this weekend, that 
have improved productivity and are trending user satisfaction 
in the right direction.
    Third, Oracle is making a number of investments to make 
implementations go faster and smoother, improving training and 
support, while also investing in modernization of the EHR to 
provide a state-of-the-art experience for providers.
    Fourth, Oracle is migrating VA to our cloud to unlock a 
slew of new technologies that VA can take advantage of while 
enhancing cybersecurity.
    We believe the program is ready to accelerate deployments 
in 2026.
    We are working closely with Secretary Collins, Dr. Evans, 
and the VA team to figure out the right pace of deployments' 
timing and schedule, even meeting at the VA just a few hours 
ago.
    As the committee considers the path forward, I think the 
most important thing to recognize is that the program and the 
EHR deployed at the first five sites is in a vastly different 
state than it was nearly 3 years ago, before Oracle acquired 
Cerner.
    There have been many changes to address the challenges of 
the past. My written testimony details--perhaps painfully for 
those of you that read it all the way through--the amount of 
change that Oracle has brought to the program.
    It performs reliably without severe outages or frustrating 
crashes for users. It has had more than 3,000 functional 
changes made during the reset to make the EHR easier to use, 
simplify workflows, and enhance functions like pharmacy.
    Training has been overhauled. The new training program 
worked very well and received high marks from the employees at 
Lovell Federal Health Care Center in Chicago when it 
successfully went live last year.
    Revenue collections and productivity are returning and in 
some cases even exceeding baselines from predeployment 
averages.
    Patient safety continues to be a top focus and we have 
instituted several new procedures with VA to make sure safety 
is always at the forefront.
    Users filing tickets with potential patient safety concerns 
have dropped 80 percent since our acquisition of Cerner.
    The EHR has new opioid tools, registries, and clinical 
decision support tools that enable greater patient safety, 
close care gaps, and help improve outcomes.
    Finally, when veterans receive care in the community their 
health records can be accessed by community care providers and 
updated to ensure VA providers have a complete view of the care 
received outside the VA system.
    Now, there are still challenges and work that we will 
continue to do to improve the system to address the VA's unique 
needs. We expect the same of VA in terms of focusing on 
standardization, quick decision-making, and displaying a strong 
commitment to adopting the new EHR.
    All of this work will continue in parallel while we prepare 
for the next round of deployments and none of the optimization 
work will slow us down.
    Looking into the future, as we move this system to the 
Oracle cloud, we will have the ability to bring even more 
modern features to the EHR and eventually upgrade it to our new 
cloud-based EHR infused with Artificial Intelligence (AI).
    The narrative about this program is largely negative. We 
understand that first impressions last, and the first 
impression in Spokane and the other initial sites was not good.
    We are not Cerner that deployed at those sites. The 
totality of updates, enhancements, investments, and innovations 
to the EHR show that this is a dramatically improved system 
from what was originally deployed in Spokane in 2020.
    We are encouraged that everyone involved wants to see this 
program on a path to success or get it back on course, as 
Chairman Bost and others have said, because I know we all agree 
that those who have made sacrifices for all of us deserve 
modern technology to help make their experiences at the VA more 
efficient, safe, smooth, and ultimately aid the providers that 
serve them in delivering high-quality care that improves the 
health of veterans.
    Oracle stands ready and committed to getting this done on 
behalf of our nation's veterans. Thank you.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Seema Verma Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Barrett. Thank you, Ms. Verma.
    The written statement of Ms. Verma will be entered into the 
hearing record.
    Mr. Case, you are new recognized for 5 minutes to deliver 
your opening statement on behalf of OIG.

                    STATEMENT OF DAVID CASE

    Mr. Case. Chairman Barrett, Ranking Member Budzinski, and 
subcommittee members, thank you for the opportunity to discuss 
the OIG's oversight of EHRM.
    Since April 2020 we have published 22 reports on VA's 
modernization program. More than half uncovered significant 
patient safety concerns, such as problems with medication 
management, pharmacy operations, and patient care coordination.
    The others identified deficiencies in program and contract 
management, including poor cost estimating and reporting.
    We have remained focused on EHRM during VA's reset, because 
an updated EHR has a central role in providing high-quality 
healthcare to veterans.
    I want to discuss four main unresolved issues previously 
identified by OIG teams that VA should address as it emerges 
from reset to the next wave of EHR deployment.
    First, while VA has addressed many OIG-identified patient 
safety issues, more work is needed to ensure that the veteran's 
experience with a new EHR fulfills its promise of timely access 
to seamless high-quality care.
    For example, the new EHR has had serious issues with 
handling scheduling changes and missed appointments. This 
includes VHA allowing mental health staff at new EHR sites to 
make fewer attempts to contact no-show patients compared to 
legacy sites, creating a different standard of care between 
sites.
    VHA should address barriers created by software 
deficiencies without compromising patient care and engagement 
standards.
    Second, in February 2024, I testified to this subcommittee 
about pharmacy-related-patient-safety issues facing every VHA 
provider. While VA has made progress on some aspects of the 
pharmacy program, critical issues remain unresolved.
    For the foreseeable future, legacy EHR site leaders must 
have providers perform manual medication safety checks for 
patients who have received care at a new EHR site due to 
concerns with the automated process.
    These manual safety checks are time-consuming and rely on 
the vigilance of pharmacists and frontline staff. Facilities 
using the new EHR require greater numbers of staff and 
supplemental resources to manage the significant drop in 
productivity.
    Third, it is essential that the new EHR system be 
consistently accessible. In September 2024, the OIG found that 
VA procedures lacked sufficient controls to prevent, respond 
to, and mitigate major performance incidents.
    While we recognize VA has improved system reliability, 
there are still incidents occurring every month.
    Given the stress that the system will likely experience 
during the next deployments in larger facilities, VA must be 
ready to handle any future instability and equip providers with 
the tools to continue working when the system is degraded or 
inoperative.
    Finally, VA must develop and maintain an integrated master 
schedule to clearly track and project the program's cost to 
completion. The 2026 deployments are on a much larger scale, 
with a greater number of variables and tasks to plan and 
execute. Also, VA's ability to train staff and resolve requests 
for help may be challenged.
    Additionally, there may be many developments over the next 
year that could affect the schedule, and cost, and the veteran 
and provider experience. A reliable master schedule will enable 
VA to be fully transparent with Congress and their stakeholders 
about what needs to happen for the successful rollout of the 
new EHR in Michigan and other sites nationwide.
    Our recommendations on the integrated master schedule and 
project costs have been open for several years, paused 
essentially because of VA's reset.
    Given the restart, VA should get them done. Without them, 
costs will be uncertain, risks may not be mitigated, and 
efficiencies could be lost as tasks dependent on other actions 
are not fully considered.
    In conclusion, EHRM's success is dependent on VA's 
transparency, careful planning, and the recognition and 
remediation of patient safety issues.
    Updating the EHR is critical for VHA's ability to deliver 
healthcare in the future, and the OIG will continue to focus 
our resources to provide VA with timely recommendations that 
can help them and Congress ensure this transition succeeds.
    Chairman Barrett, this concludes my statement. I would be 
happy to answer any questions you or other members may have.

    [The Prepared Statement Of David Case Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Barrett. Thank you, Mr. Case.
    The written statement for Mr. Case will be entered into the 
hearing record.
    Now we will go to Ms. Harris.
    You are now recognized for 5 minutes for your statement. 
Thank you.

                   STATEMENT OF CAROL HARRIS

    Ms. Harris. Chairman Barrett, Ranking Member Budzinski, and 
members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting us to 
testify today on the EHRM program. This is VA's fourth attempt 
at replacing its legacy Electronic Health Record system.
    As requested, I will briefly summarize our recent work on 
VA's progress to implement the system and the challenges it 
faces moving forward.
    As you know, VA provides healthcare services to roughly 9 
million veterans and their families and relies on the legacy 
system called VistA to do so.
    In June 2017, the Department initiated the EHRM program to 
replace VistA and deployed the new system to six of its medical 
centers at a cost of about $12.7 billion.
    The rollout of the system has been met with poor user 
satisfaction, change management issues, and slow resolution of 
trouble tickets, among other things. Given the magnitude of 
user concerns, VA paused deployments in April 2023 to improve 
the system and address those concerns.
    On December 20, 2024, VA announced it would resume 
deployments to four Michigan sites in mid-2026. This afternoon, 
I will highlight four key points from our work.
    First, VA lacks a strategic roadmap to get EHRM where it 
needs to go.
    During the 20-month deployment pause, a significant part of 
VA's improvement efforts focused on the more than 1,500 system-
configuration changes needed to support user needs and 
standardize workflows.
    VA also closed many of its highest priority patient safety 
enhancement requests.
    These are all important accomplishments, but there are 
still about 1,800 complex configuration changes and a number of 
user-driven projects that need to be completed.
    For example, referral management lacks functionality and 
intuitiveness for users, and VA will be working to simplify the 
existing process and standardize referrals across the 
enterprise.
    All this is to say that VA has been in reactive mode during 
this reset period, putting out fires with no real plan for how 
to move forward strategically.
    Two pieces of information needed to inform such a plan are 
the cost and schedule estimates. This leads to my second 
point--that, unfortunately, Congress and VA senior leaders are 
relying on estimates that are severely outdated and incomplete.
    Existing cost estimates range from VA's $16.1 billion to an 
independent one of almost $50 billion. While the latter is more 
realistic, neither reflects the many changes and delays to the 
program.
    Also, planed system deployment at four additional sites 
results in about 94 percent of VA's total medical centers 
without the new system as of mid-2026.
    With 2 years left on the Oracle Cerner contract, it is 
vitally important that VA update these estimates to inform 
decision-making.
    Another key piece of information needed to inform a 
strategic roadmap is the results of an independent operational 
assessment, or an Independent Verification and Validation 
(IV&V) test, which we recommended VA conduct in 2023.
    An IV&V is an evaluation of the system end to end to 
determine whether the system is operationally suitable. In 
other words, it systematically catalogs these deficiencies of 
the system and answers the question of whether or not the 
system will realistically meet mission need.
    This test is considered an IT best practice and one of the 
reasons why DOD was able to successfully deploy the Oracle 
Cerner system.
    Now to my final point. VA's user surveys continue to 
reflect general dissatisfaction with the new system. As of 
September 2024, about 70 percent of respondents were not 
satisfied with the system; about half continued to disagree or 
strongly disagree that the system enabled them to deliver high-
quality care.
    Seventy-five percent disagreed or strongly disagreed that 
the system made them as efficient as possible. While there was 
a slight uptick in satisfaction compared to 2022, these numbers 
are still just too low.
    Moving forward, it will be critical for VA to address these 
issues along with our other eight open recommendations as soon 
as possible. Doing so will position VA to more effectively 
deliver a modern health record system as veterans deserve.
    That concludes my statement. I look forward to addressing 
your questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Carol Harris Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Barrett. Thank you, Ms. Harris.
    The written statement of Ms. Harris will be entered into 
the hearing record.
    We will now proceed to questioning, and I recognize myself 
for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Harris, thank you again for your testimony. Given all 
that is happened with this program since its last cost estimate 
in 2022, I know you mentioned this in your opening remarks, but 
can Congress rely on the estimate of $32.7 billion over 13 
years to fully implement the Oracle EHR at VA? If not, why not?
    Ms. Harris. No, Congress cannot reliably rely on this 
estimate. There have been too many changes to the program. 
There obviously was this period reset over a 2-year period with 
additional work being done and none of that has been accounted 
for within the cost estimate.
    That estimate needs to be updated before we proceed, 
because, again, when you take a look at how much has been sunk, 
12.7 billion already, and we have only deployed to six sites, 
if you were to just multiply that across the 94 percent of 
medical centers that have not had the same system, I mean, that 
could be in the hundreds of billions of dollars potentially.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you.
    Second question for you. The GAO has been publishing 
reports about the EHRM program and making recommendations to VA 
on how to improve it since 2020. You have been involved in each 
of those.
    How many recommendations have you made? How many have been 
resolved? I know you said there are a number that are 
outstanding. Can you give us an update on the number of 
recommendations versus those that have been resolved so far?
    Ms. Harris. We have made a total of 15 recommendations in 
our previous work. We have an additional three that we have 
with a draft report that is out for comment at VA at this time. 
That would be a total of 18 recommendations. Of those 18, one 
has been implemented.
    Mr. Barrett. Which one was that?
    Ms. Harris. That was one was related to, I believe, data 
migration.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. Thank you.
    Your most recent report said that the program has made 
incremental improvements but there is much more work to be 
done. Is that related to those recommendations or do you have 
other thoughts on the incremental improvements that have been 
made?
    Ms. Harris. I mean, the incremental improvements have been 
related to those system configurations that VA has completed, 
so roughly 1,500 complex configuration changes.
    I know that there have been more that are not complex that 
have been made during this reset period. There is still a 
significant number of configuration changes that need to be 
made in addition to these user-driven projects, that those are 
still outstanding, that need to be completed before the 
deployment at Michigan in mid-2026.
    Mr. Barrett. I know you mentioned what I would consider 
lack of satisfaction or the reports as they surveyed those that 
are interfacing with the system. Anywhere from low 70's to low 
80's are seemingly frustrated or feel like the system is not 
meeting their needs or obligations or desires.
    Do you have any information as far as, like, an industry 
standard outside of government or in other health systems as 
far as the satisfaction among folks with electronic health 
record systems?
    Ms. Harris. We do have that information. I do not have that 
with me at this time, but I am happy to work with your staff in 
providing that.
    I do believe that the industry numbers for the Oracle 
Cerner system, it is higher than what we are seeing at VA, and 
at DOD the numbers are a little bit higher than VA. Overall, 
they are not super high compared to others, is my 
understanding.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. Thank you.
    In your opinion, does VA have a complete understanding of 
all the problems with the system? Do they have a plan to 
resolve them?
    Ms. Harris. I do not believe they have a complete 
understanding of all the issues. That is why this IV&V test is 
so critical, because it is a systemic look at the system once 
it is in the live environment.
    When it is deployed, then the testers go in and they 
observe the users actually use the system from an end-to-end 
perspective, they catalogue all of those issues. That would be 
a way for VA to identify the comprehensive list of issues and 
then to prioritize from there.
    They have not done that. They have done pieces of those 
types of tests, but not from an end-to-end perspective.
    Mr. Barrett. Quickly, I only have about 30 seconds left. I 
know it is the position of VA and Oracle that, well, we have 
got this in a live environment so we do not need that end-to-
end review.
    What would you say to that position that they seem to feel 
is testing it in a live environment?
    Ms. Harris. I mean, I would disagree with that. It is an IT 
best practice. It is also something that DOD did when they 
deployed their Oracle Cerner system. It was one of the reasons 
whey they were able to successfully deploy.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. Thank you.
    I would now like to recognize Ranking Member Budzinski for 
your questions.
    Ms. Budzinski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I had mentioned this in my opening. I am concerned about 
any potential impacts with the recent announcements of some of 
the positions, the workforce cuts to the VA.
    Is that going to then affect the implementation of the go-
lives that we have coming up with the EHRM system?
    I think my questions are really for Dr. Evans in this first 
round.
    Did you lose anyone in the probationary employee purge? If 
so, how many?
    Dr. Evans. Yes, we did lose several employees with regard 
to folks who were let go who were in their probationary period. 
I believe the number currently is eight.
    Ms. Budzinski. Eight. Okay.
    Then how many people in the EHRM Integration Office took 
advantage of the ``Fork in the Road'' email that was sent?
    Dr. Evans. 16 staff members signed up for the deferred 
resignation program.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Then how many vacancies did you have 
before these cuts started?
    Dr. Evans. Our organizational chart is approved for 
approximately 330 staff, and we are at approximately 250.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Based on that, can you kind of speak 
to how confident you are that you can move forward successfully 
with these staffing changes? Or how does that impact how you 
are looking at the potential for success for a next round of 
go-lives?
    Dr. Evans. I think I would start by saying, first of all, 
this is a priority. I mean, as we have heard here in the room 
today, our successful implementation of the Federal EHR across 
VA is a priority of the VA and is certainly a priority of 
current VA leadership.
    It is important to recognize that it is not just the 
government staff of the Electronic Health Record Modernization 
Integration Office who are going to be the folks who actually 
make this happen.
    I am super proud of every one of them and the work that 
they are doing to move this program forward. They have been 
putting in a tremendous amount of effort over the reset. Now, 
as we are getting restarted in Michigan and beyond, they are 
doing a tremendous amount of work.
    We also rely on staff from the Veterans Health 
Administration, from the Office of Information Technology, from 
several of our vendor partners who work alongside of us and 
really across in the field at the Veterans Integrated Services 
Networks (VISNs). It takes many, many more than the folks in 
the program office to successfully implement the EHR.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Thank you.
    My next set of questions is really focused around the 
restart that was put into place and then obviously this recent 
news about going live with some sites in Michigan in mid-2026.
    My question, just to start again with Dr. Evans, is just 
can you talk a little bit about how confident you are, given 
what you have shared and what has already really been shared 
with the panel, that the VA and Oracle are ready to deploy this 
system and that we will not hear the same concerns that the 
first six sites raised?
    Dr. Evans. Yes. I think good program management and sort of 
a realistic approach to implementing--I mean, I think we should 
step back and recognize that this is a really complex, 
transformative change. We are changing effectively all of the 
information technologies that support healthcare delivery at 
our sites.
    I feel confident that we are in a much better place and 
completely agree with the fact that what we are deploying, the 
product we are going to be deploying in Michigan, the set of 
technologies and how they are configured to meet VA's needs, it 
is an entirely different set. It is very different than it was 
with the initial sites.
    I do feel confident that we are entering Michigan having 
learned a lot, having listened to our end users. That does not 
mean that we can let up one bit with regard to our vigilance of 
how do we deliver with excellence in Michigan.
    Ms. Budzinski. I think maybe drilling down a little bit 
more, like, are there metrics that you are using that give you 
the confidence to say that?
    Dr. Evans. Yes. We established a set of metrics that we 
used to demonstrate our progress during the reset. They were 
looking in four categories.
    One was essentially how stable the system was, the 
technical stability of the system.
    The second category was looking at metrics around the 
program processes that we use to support end users, how well 
are we supporting the need for change and for adjustment to the 
system and support for our end users.
    The third was around the veteran and VA staff experience 
around a host of pieces of the application.
    The fourth was around the actual impact of the system on 
health system operations, our revenue collections, healthcare 
quality, et cetera. We have been tracking those metrics through 
the reset and we will continue to track them as we move 
forward.
    Ms. Budzinski. I have run out of time, so I yield back. I 
have other questions.
    Mr. Barrett. Sure. Thank you. We will do another round 
after this.
    Mr. Luttrell.
    Mr. Luttrell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Ms. Harris, you look like you want to respond to that, what 
Dr. Evans just laid out for us.
    Ms. Harris. Sure. I mean, there has been a tremendous 
amount of work that was done during the program reset period. 
There is no doubt about that. There are a lot of very important 
accomplishments.
    At the same time, there is still a very large amount of 
work that needs to be completed with regard to the continued 
changes to the system, the configuration changes, as well as 
the user-driven projects.
    That, in combination with what they are doing in parallel, 
which is getting these four sites ready to go live. I mean, 
that is going to take a tremendous amount of resources. We know 
within, like, the FHCC, for example, in Chicago that there were 
some resources that were redirected from that system work to 
get the sites ready.
    Our concern is, in the absence of an integrated scheduler, 
as Mr. Case has been talking about, as well as a cost estimate 
to really know what it is really going to take to get to that 
go-live, it is just a big unknown.
    Mr. Luttrell. Thank you, Ms. Harris.
    Dr. Evans, why did not the VA conduct an IV&V test or 
assessment? Considering it worked for the DOD, I am curious 
why.
    Dr. Evans. Yes. It is a good question.
    First of all, I think we have spent--we have had a lot of 
attention in a very similar fashion to what an IV&V test would 
do with our staff--and, frankly, staff from Oracle Health--
spending a considerable amount of time on the ground at our 
live sites observing workflows from end to end and categorizing 
where the issues are.
    Those issues are the change requests that we have been 
working through during the reset. You heard of the fact that 
there are 1,800 still that we are working through at the 
moment. Those are the change requests that have----
    Mr. Luttrell. Would that assessment have problem solved 
instead of doing it the way that we did conduct it? I only ask 
that because we failed miserably. Would that assessment have 
solved that problem?
    Dr. Evans. I mean, I do not think that it would have----
    Mr. Luttrell. We are, help me out with the numbers here, on 
a $10 billion project, we are $12.5 into it, projected to go to 
$50 billion.
    Dr. Evans. Here is what I would say, is I think that with 
regard to identifying the issues that we need to fix, I think 
we have had an awful lot of help from our end users--and, 
frankly, from our staff--in identifying what those issues are 
that we need to fix.
    I would welcome a third-party assessment of what additional 
issues might be discovered. I do not think we are going to find 
a significant set of surprise issues that we are not yet aware 
of.
    Mr. Luttrell. I would imagine there is a whole laundry list 
of them, considering what the OIG just said.
    Ms. Verma, how long have you been in your position?
    Ms. Verma. I have been in my position for about a year.
    Mr. Luttrell. Of course. Cerner--Oracle bought this project 
from Cerner. That is the best way to say that, correct?
    Ms. Verma. Oracle acquired Cerner.
    Mr. Luttrell. Acquired it?
    Ms. Verma. Yes.
    Mr. Luttrell. Then I am sure they were very well aware of 
the problematic issues that existed inside the EHR?
    Ms. Verma. We have gotten more fully acquainted with those, 
yes.
    Mr. Luttrell. I am sure you are, considering where we stand 
today.
    What is your--because you said update costs. I am curious, 
what is Oracle projecting the cost of activating the EHR, not 
in 2026 but downstream in all 172 facilities, plus the 
satellite campuses that you and I spoke about, Dr. Evans? When 
everything is up and running what are we going with, 
considering we are well over our original budget?
    Ms. Verma. Just from a taxpayer perspective and former 
government official to understand the need to really be very 
careful with how we are using resources.
    Just a couple of numbers. I heard the $50 billion estimate. 
I think that is an outside group that we have not validated so 
we do not agree with that estimate.
    Mr. Luttrell. You cannot say you disagree with $50 billion 
and it costs $49?
    Ms. Verma. Agreed, but I do not think it needs to go to 
that level. I think there are a lot of opportunities for us to 
figure out how to run this program more efficiently.
    The other thing I would say is that out of the $10 billion, 
Oracle has received $5 billion. These are some of the other 
estimates. Not all of that has gone to Oracle.
    I do think that the way to make sure that we are using 
taxpayer dollars efficiently, there is a couple of different 
things that we can do.
    Accelerating is really important. The longer the program 
goes on, the more that it is going to cost.
    There is also opportunities to do things around 
standardization. Like we have heard a lot of discussion about 
that. When we standardize, we also reduce the number of 
additional configurations. Even if we can get done some of the 
work around optimization, that also will decrease later on some 
of the additional work that happens----
    Mr. Luttrell. I am sorry, Ms. Verma. I apologize.
    Mr. Chairman, are we doing----
    Mr. Barrett. [Inaudible.]
    Mr. Luttrell. Forgive me. I will circle back with you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you.
    I recognize myself again.
    Dr. Evans, IV&V you said essentially--not to paraphrase 
what you said--but more or less that your users have accounted 
for what that would do by utilizing the system and providing 
change requests to that.
    To me, not being an IT professional, that sounds a lot like 
we are going to put it out there, and even though we know it is 
not fully operating properly we are just going to wait for 
people to tell us where it is broken and wait for it to then 
roll in for the fixes that do that.
    If we had planned this from the beginning and done that 
thorough analysis that Ms. Harris had described, would it have 
prevented that need for so many changes that are now 
backlogging the system that are putting us in the position of 
delay that we are in currently?
    Dr. Evans. I think--so a couple things. When we look at the 
DOD's experience deploying the EHR, they had a very similar 
experience. Though they did complete an operational test, an 
Operational Test and Evaluation (OTE) exercise to determine the 
suitability of the system, they did not do that until after it 
was already in production and was being used at several sites, 
when they were having very, very similar problems to VA's 
initial problems. That is point number one.
    Point number two, I completely agree with you, end users 
are one piece of the puzzle, but bringing experts in who can 
watch and observe and provide insights that an end user 
themselves might not be able to sort of provide from the 
foxhole in which they are is valuable.
    We have been able to do that with experts from the program 
office, from our counsel, experts at the national level in VA, 
from Oracle Health, from our research community who have very 
carefully studied different parts of our implementation.
    Again, I think we have learned quite a lot not just from 
end user reports, but also from external bodies who have looked 
at our implementation.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay.
    Ms. Verma, you said that a big portion of reducing costs is 
accelerating the implementation of this program. While I 
suppose I agree with you from a strictly cost standpoint, if we 
were to just implement this everywhere maybe we could save some 
money, but I do not think that you would have the confidence of 
this committee--I am not going to speak for the other members--
but certainly from my own perspective given the track record 
that is been out there so far.
    Asking us to endorse the idea of accelerating this when it 
has not proven to be adequate--and that is putting it in the 
most diplomatic way I can--what can you give us to reassure 
this committee that in fact accelerating is the appropriate 
thing to do when the last time we implemented this we had to go 
into an immediate freeze because it was so poorly implemented?
    Ms. Verma. I think we are in a different place than where 
we were 5 years ago, and even just the last 18 months. If we 
look at the track record, even in respect to testing and 
independent evaluation, if we look at the go-live in Chicago, 
that has gone well.
    If we look at even this weekend, I know time will tell, we 
will get a better sense of the impact on our providers, I 
think, if we just look at sort of in the recent history that we 
have actually seen some good, successful----
    Mr. Barrett. Would not you agree that the go-live in 
Chicago was done with a significant assist from the Department 
of Defense working in that regard as a spotter on the weight 
bench, if you will?
    Ms. Verma. I think that the DOD certainly helped. The VA 
was there, the VA led that, and I think there were a lot of 
lessons learned that will help them also take some of those 
lessons in going forward.
    There is still a lot of--if we look at the history in terms 
of the impact that it has had, I mean, even on productively 
there are some places where we have actually increased 
productivity in some places.
    We have also seen some of the work that we are getting in 
terms of closing care gaps, some of the new tools that we have 
been able to provide for providers on the front lines that have 
actually helped them deliver more safe care in terms of 
opioids, for example. The clinical decision support.
    Those are things that I think are definitely helping.
    Mr. Barrett. I heard that in your opening remarks and I 
appreciate the focus on that. I am curious why we do not have--
to Mr. Case's point--we do not have a standardized schedule as 
to when this is going to be implemented.
    To Ms. Harris' point, we do not have that end-to-end review 
and analysis of where the pitfalls and gaps are. If the answer 
is to go faster, I do not think that a reasonable person would 
view that that is the most appropriate thing.
    I guess, with 15 seconds left, how can you reassure us that 
that would be the case?
    Ms. Verma. Look, we are committed to making sure that this 
works. I think the history shows, the recent history, that 
things have improved. The VA is paying for hosting, they are 
paying for a lot of things that they are not using.
    If we look at where we have been just over the last 12 
months, I think things have started to turn around, they have 
started to go well.
    We are committed to getting the optimization work done as 
well as in parallel trying to advance some of the work in terms 
of going forward at the other sites.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. Our version of what good looks like 
might be ought of sync with one another. I will be curious to 
ask more.
    I want to recognize Ranking Member Budzinski again for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. Budzinski. Yes. Thank you very much.
    I actually want to kind of just build on what you were 
talking about, about accelerated deployment.
    What would it take for Oracle and the VA to be able to 
accomplish that? If you could kind of further--both Dr. Evans 
and Ms. Verma--if you could elaborate on that.
    Ms. Verma. I think from my perspective one of the biggest 
things that we need to do is standardize. If we get to sort of 
a standard sort of configurations, that is going to really help 
a lot.
    Ms. Budzinski. I know you have said that a lot, not to 
interrupt you, but I think one of the things that I have come 
to understand and appreciate in some ways about the VA is every 
clinic is different, every Community Based Outpatient Clinic 
(CBOC) is different. The uniqueness of it, is that a bigger 
challenge within the VA than it is perhaps with the DOD when 
you say standardization?
    Ms. Verma. If we think about the original goals of the 
program was to create some standardization so that when 
veterans go into one site they are getting a similar level of 
care, a similar quality, a similar standard of care.
    In order to do that, we need to make sure we are all 
operating in the same way, and that starts with having the IT 
configured in a way that is standard.
    That, I think, that in and of itself will create a lot of 
optimization, even if we think about a lot of the 
configurations and a lot of the different requests, because I 
think there is the expectation that we are going to do this in 
a bespoke way.
    That is actually contributing to more complexity and 
increased costs, increased difficulties with training and 
support if you are doing something different at every site.
    When I say that I think we can go faster, that is 
predicated on having standardization, that is key to be able to 
go forward----
    Ms. Budzinski. It is not--and, obviously, I believe in this 
program, so I think that I believe in the standardization 
concept. That is what we are moving toward. I am more asking 
you the unique challenges within the VA to moving to something 
that is standardized that is something a little different than 
the DOD.
    Ms. Verma. Yes. I think one of the things that--and we have 
talked about this and been working on that--is how can we give 
more support to the providers on the front lines, making sure 
that they have adequate training.
    I think that the work that we did in Chicago was a good 
example of that. Not only did they have a lot of training in 
advance, they also did elbow-to-elbow training so that when it 
went live there were people circulating there that could give 
them support. That is not something that should just happen on 
the first day or the first 3 days. It still may take about even 
a month later.
    We find that a lot of the requests and a lot of the changes 
that people are requesting, sometimes those are rooted in they 
may not understand how to use the system. If we actually give 
them more support and more training that they actually are not 
going to request a change in the actual system. I think that is 
also a piece of it, the standardization and more support, more 
training.
    Ms. Budzinski. Dr. Evans.
    Dr. Evans. Yes. I think--and I think the original question 
that you asked was--how do we feel confident about the ability 
to accelerate and what does that look like?
    I think I would start my remarks by saying that I just want 
to--I mentioned it in my opening statement, but I would like to 
underline it. VA is and agrees with the recommendation that we 
do need a revised integrated master schedule and a life cycle 
cost estimate regarding this program. Hundred percent agree.
    When we made a decision to start our work in Michigan, we 
made that decision very explicitly. We spoke to this committee 
about that decision to say we are making a decision to start 
moving toward Michigan with the understanding that we need to 
in parallel be working on the schedule, the integrated master 
schedule, for what things look like to get to Michigan, what 
things look like to get to the sites thereafter, to the end of 
this current contract, and to the end of our delivery.
    We agree and are working on the schedule.
    I think one of the things that I sense that you are trying 
to get at, which I would very strongly agree, is that the 
details matter when it comes to executing a complex project 
like this. The details matter. That is what we capture in an 
integrated master schedule.
    We are at a very different spot in the program than when 
this program began many years ago. And so sort of snapping the 
chalk line and starting to build that schedule iteratively, we 
have heard that recommendation from both GAO and OIG and we 
will do it.
    Ms. Budzinski. That is great. It was going to be what my 
next question, is getting that schedule. It is great to hear 
that that is something you would be open to.
    Just because I have only have a few seconds left, can I ask 
you really quickly, Dr. Evans, about the 3b pharmacy solution? 
That was rolled out, I know I talked very briefly about it, but 
can you generally just say how did it go this weekend?
    Dr. Evans. It was rolled out this weekend. The block 
upgrade, which is twice a year, we introduce significant 
software upgrades to the Federal EHR. That occurs in February 
and August every year. This block upgrade runs from the 21st to 
the 28th. Much of it was implemented over the weekend. There 
were a few small issues addressed this morning, but overall, it 
is a little too early to tell, but it seems like things are 
going well with regard to 3b.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you.
    Mr. Luttrell.
    Mr. Luttrell. Curious to hear what you just said about the 
pharmacy, because Ms. Verma said it was going great, which it 
kind of works in conflict here.
    Can you elaborate a little bit more, Mr. Evans, on how that 
pharmacy--when it was activated this weekend, because I want to 
go back to Ms. Verma, because, again, I want to kind of unpack 
the suitcase on this.
    Dr. Evans. Sure. I think, probably as you and the committee 
are aware, it has been a long journey to deliver this 
particular improvement. When we first went live with the 
pharmacy capabilities to support VA, and again, remember 
pharmacy operations and VA are a little bit different than in a 
typical commercial healthcare environment. VA runs both the 
healthcare delivery organization as well as the pharmacy 
fulfillment organization, both the pharmacy that is dispensing 
the medication and the providers and staff who are ordering 
those medications.
    As we deployed pharmacy at the original sites, the pharmacy 
community came and identified initially a set of seven issues 
that they said were absolutely critical for us to deliver 
before we went live at a level-1 high complexity site.
    Of those seven capabilities, one of them happened to be 
numbered three, and proved the most challenging. We had hoped 
to have that delivered last February. There were some issues 
with it and there has been a lot of work, including a very 
different approach to how we did development and testing and 
evaluation of 3b to get it delivered this week. I just--in the 
interest of full transparency, as with any----
    Mr. Luttrell. We appreciate transparency.
    Dr. Evans. Yes. With any IT go-live, when something hits 
the light of day, you might find something that you--you may 
have done absolutely extensive testing and there may be some 
small issue that you identify, which has been quickly fixed 
this morning.
    That is what I am talking about. I would say overall it is 
great. I would agree that it is great that we are live with 3b 
now, and that we are going to be able to see how that works in 
the real world over the next week and the following weeks. That 
is good news.
    Mr. Luttrell. Ms. Verma, I know you are representing your 
company and you are giving us kind of a grandiose expectations 
of the success that is currently happening. We are in the 
basement. We are in the basement. We are rock bottom. We 
actually have failed totally because we are in pause.
    Can you give me a statistical probability of success in the 
next 2 years from Oracle? If it does not, if it is not 
successful, the only person that is going to be sitting here 
taking the punches is him. I want to hear from you and Oracle 
if you think where we--I need to hear this out loud. Where we 
are currently, when we go live in `26, and then running it 
parallel with other facilities, correct, Mr. Evans? Is that how 
you explained that to me in my office? Is that going to work?
    Ms. Verma. Listen, we are committed to doing everything 
that we can.
    Mr. Luttrell. No, no.
    Ms. Verma. I cannot----
    Mr. Luttrell. Everybody says that that does not have a 
plan.
    Ms. Verma. Right. Well, I think we do have a plan. We 
talked about a number of optimization projects that need to get 
done. We are talking about how we implement in Michigan. We are 
going back and looking at lessons learned and how we can 
implement it in a way that supports end users with better 
training, with better support.
    Mr. Luttrell. You are highly confident Michigan is going to 
fire up successfully.
    Ms. Verma. I am confident, yes.
    Mr. Luttrell. Give me a statistic.
    Ms. Verma. I am not going to give you a specific number, 
but I feel pretty confident about it.
    Mr. Luttrell. Better than 50?
    Ms. Verma. I think it is going to be better than where--I 
think we are going to be building on all the improvements that 
we have had over the, you know, with the optimization work and 
some of the lessons learned in terms of training. We are also 
putting in a lot of time and effort to figure out how can we 
figure out how to optimize and how to make these go in a more 
smooth way.
    We are also building on a lot of the experience that we 
have had, a lot of the challenges that we face. We have 
actually learned from those, and so we feel comfortable going 
forward and that this is going to be better.
    I will say this, if we just look back, right, in the 
recent, if we just look at Chicago, that has gone well, right? 
That is the only implementation that was done by Oracle. That 
has gone well. If we look at these recent code block releases, 
this is not the only one that we have done. We have actually 
done several. We did one in August. We did one last year. We 
have seen that those have gone smoothly. If those had not gone 
smoothly, I can understand that there would be some concern.
    If we look at in the last year, Chicago has gone well. All 
of the last two to three code block releases that we have gone 
have gone fairly seamlessly. Yes, there is little bumps and 
things like that that we have been able to get through, and 
they have gone largely successfully.
    If we look at the recent past and the turnaround in terms 
of Oracle coming in, stabilizing the system, a lot of the 
problems that we have had have been addressed. The stability 
has been addressed. We have been able to do a good go-live. We 
have also been able to upgrade the system in several different 
areas successfully. Those areas, that is why I feel confident 
that our next go-lives will go well and that we are capable of 
accelerating.
    Mr. Luttrell. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you, sir. I will recognize myself again. 
Coming to Michigan, 2026, we have level 1A complex facilities, 
right? Ann Arbor and Detroit, correct? Have any of these been 
rolled out in complex facilities up until now?
    Dr. Evans. I can start with that. The James A. Lovell 
Federal Health Care Center in North Chicago is a level-1 
facility.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay.
    Dr. Evans. The short answer to that question is yes. I 
think I will further answer your question that I am very, very 
impressed with the leadership teams at all four sites in 
Michigan. I have met personally with each of them as we are 
getting things kicked off. In part in answer to Mr. Luttrell's 
questions, one of the levels of confidence that I feel in 
Michigan is this is as much about IT implementation, whether 
the software works as it is the personal and human sort of all 
of the staff at Michigan adopting, getting used to, working 
through the change of adopting this new system. I am very proud 
of the work that the teams in Michigan are doing to prepare. I 
think that should also sort of raise our level of confidence 
and success there.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. Doctor Evans, what are some of the 
incomplete big rock projects that you described in your remarks 
earlier?
    Dr. Evans. Right. One of those is--an example of one of 
those is what we call position standardization. The way the 
Oracle health record, or what we call the Federal EHR works is 
the user, depending on what type of user they are has a 
different experience in the software, so whether they are a 
social worker, primary care provider, rheumatologist, an 
endocrinologist, which type of physician, nurse, et cetera, 
there are more than 300 different roles configured into the 
system.
    We have learned at our sites that there were probably too 
many roles that were chosen by VA when we started down this 
path, and have been consolidating and standardizing what can be 
done in those roles. We just completed standardizing the roles 
for advanced practice registered nurses, geriatric and extended 
care providers and social workers, and took what had been 28 
roles, that is 28 different training programs, 28 different 
sets of software capabilities to maintain, and compressed them 
down to six.
    We are now starting with the nursing roles, Registered 
Nurses (RNs) and Licensed Practical Nurses (LPNs), there are 
more than 50 nursing roles, and we anticipate compressing them 
down quite a bit. Again, as we reduce complexity, it will 
improve the sort of the efficiency of training and the user 
experience as well. That is an example of one that is very, 
very important that we are tracking toward making very 
significant progress toward prior to the Michigan go-live.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. Are there any remaining big rocks that 
are show-stoppers that if they are not done, it will inhibit 
the ability to roll this out at the next phase in Michigan?
    Dr. Evans. No. I would not say that they are show stoppers.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. Do you feel, right now, I guess I can 
ask Ms. Verma this, is the system ready to go live today in 
Michigan if we wanted to? Like, do you have confidence that we 
could do this right now if we chose to? That is for you, Ms. 
Verma.
    Ms. Verma. I am sorry, I thought you said Dr. Evans. I 
would say a couple things, right? If we look at the system that 
we have today, we are making changes. We are doing 
optimizations. I think that this year we should continue to do 
that work around optimizations and so that when we do implement 
with Michigan next year, which is what we are slated to do, 
that that will go well. It should go better than the initial 
five, because we will have identified what those optimizations 
are and what those need to be, and so if we implement those 
now, that that will make Michigan go better next year.
    Mr. Barrett. Going back to when the initial rollout 
happened, the number of facilities we have rolled out, north 
Chicago, the whole thing and the pause, all of that, today you 
do not have confidence that the system would be ready to go in 
its current state?
    Ms. Verma. I think that we can implement a system today 
anywhere. However, there are some opportunities to improve the 
experience, and I think we have agreed with the VA to do that 
work and do the optimizations, do that before we go to another 
deployment. That the system in and of itself, yes, that can be 
deployed anywhere.
    I mean, the reality is our EHR is being deployed all over 
the world. The DOD is using it. From a technology standpoint, 
yes, we can implement it. I think the VA and we agree that 
there is some optimization work that would make that deployment 
go in a much smoother better way and that it is worth making 
those investments today.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. I am out of time on my question.
    Ranking Member, go ahead.
    Ms. Budzinski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I wanted to zoom out again to the accelerated deployment 
that we had talked about, that plan, and I wanted to 
specifically get OIG and GAO's, if Mr. Case and Ms. Harris 
could kind of--could you also share with us your thought about 
the accelerated deployment idea by 2028 or 2029.
    Mr. Case. Yes. To comment on whether it is feasible or will 
it work, we need to see the schedule. We need to see the master 
schedule. How do we get from where we are now to where it is 
that they want to be, whether it is in Michigan or some 
accelerated schedule. Show us the steps each way. How long is 
it going to take? What are the risks that it will not work? 
What is the critical path? How do you modify this if something 
does not work or is not timely, and how much it will cost? To 
really assess the viability of any acceleration, show us. Show 
us the schedule. Show us the details, and then everyone in 
Congress, VA itself, OIG, GAO can evaluate it and evaluate the 
risks. I think that is really, from our perspective, one of the 
issues.
    One thing we have not talked about much here is, so far, is 
our first recommendation of our first report was for VA to 
assess what the impact was on productivity at sites, and how to 
address that when it happens. Some loss of productivity is 
expected, but how much, what is the rigorous analysis of the 
loss of productivity, not just what happened at Lovell, but we 
have got to be honest with ourselves. We are going forward at 
four sites, including two complex sites, and how long will that 
be and what are the efforts. We have not seen that analysis 
yet, so we could close the recommendation.
    Ms. Budzinski. Could I just, before we go to Ms. Harris, 
the loss of productivity, could something like improving our 
training get to addressing some of those concerns?
    Mr. Case. That should be able to do it, ma'am, and we did a 
report on the training at the early sites. It was insufficient, 
and since then, my understanding is it has been improved, but 
we have a new system. We have heard that again. It is a 
different system now, and whether the new training that is 
going to be done will be effective in the new system, that 
remains to be seen, especially going forward at four sites.
    Ms. Budzinski. Could I just ask you, Dr. Evans, because I 
know we have talked about the schedule. Obviously Mr. Case just 
emphasized that as well, but the importance of it, that sounds 
like something the VA is committed to maybe--not maybe, but to 
definitely putting together.
    Dr. Evans. Yes, absolutely.
    Ms. Budzinski. Did I hear that right?
    Dr. Evans. Yes.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. That is good. Can I ask you the same 
question, Ms. Harris.
    Ms. Harris. Absolutely, and before I respond to your 
initial question, I just wanted to add on with regard to the 
training, we have heard a lot from Ms. Verma regarding the 
training, but the training really needs to--the ownership of 
the training must reside at VA, and many of the pitfalls that 
they had with the initial five sites was they sort of 
relinquished that control to Cerner to do that training, when 
VA should be responsible for it, because the VA users are the 
ones that know the legacy system better than anyone else, and 
what it takes to be able to train up on the new system.
    My understanding--we made a recommendation that VA must 
improve their change management strategies, no doubt. Training 
is a huge component of that. My understanding is they are still 
working on that, but that should be finalized and be very 
detailed before they go forward with the go-live. In addition, 
just with regard to the--are they prepared, I mean, they have 
got--if they deploy in 2026 to Michigan, I mean, that is a huge 
if for all the reasons that Mr. Case has stated, but you still 
have 2 years remaining on that contract with 160 sites, it is 
impossible. The answer is, no, they are not going to be able to 
deploy to all of the sites within the remaining time of the 
contract.
    To get to Michigan, at least as Mr. Case said, we need that 
integrated schedule, and if they do deploy, Mr. Evans did 
mention--Dr. Evans mentioned something very important about 
DOD, which is, you know, they did the IV&V after that initial 
wave of--so it was multiple sites that they deployed to before 
they did the IV&V.
    It could be a very good test, I think, if they were to 
deploy to Michigan to have that IV&V done at those four sites. 
Again, an independent look, not VA, not Oracle Cerner to do 
that, that review, so that we can identify in full--end to end, 
what those issues are.
    Ms. Budzinski. Just to go back to that point, because I 
know we have talked about it a bit, but to just hear from 
Oracle and the VA on the IV&V test, like, if there is some 
added value to a third party helping us take a review, look 
under the hood, I feel like I have heard there is not 
necessarily opposition to that. That could be maybe helpful. 
That is a question, I guess.
    Ms. Verma. What I would say is there is a cost to that, so 
that should be part of the calculus here. The second thing I 
would say is if that we look at the more recent implementations 
in these code blocks, the testing that we have done has worked 
well, right? We have actually made changes to the testing 
program. We have given them different environments to help 
their internal process of testing, and it has actually gone 
well.
    It could be that an IV&V maybe a few years back would have 
been helpful, but I think we are in a different place now and 
the testing program that we have has worked well if we just 
look at the recent past with the last two or three code block 
releases. I think they have gone better, and I think if you are 
going to go forward with IV&V, to think about the additional 
cost of that as well.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Great. I yield back. Thank you.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you.
    Mr. Luttrell. Thank you, sir.
    Mr. Evans, what is the--I do not know the best way to say 
this, but standard of success for Oracle and what they need to 
meet in order to say, Hey, look, this--Michigan is good, we are 
moving--which one is the next site? I mean, because we went 
into the pause because the standards were not met. Are they 
required to meet the standards that currently exist, or have we 
increased those standards of success?
    Dr. Evans. I think I mentioned earlier that we have worked 
on some metrics that we are following, and actually, frankly, 
with Oracle Health we follow a lot or many more metrics than 
are actually on the dashboard of the nine core metrics that we 
followed during the reset, and that we will continue to follow 
as we move forward.
    We have defined the thresholds for success for each of 
those with the exception of one that we are finalizing now 
after we did a burn-down of trouble tickets and are resetting 
what the normals should be.
    You may see that in a GAO recommendation that we need to 
set our targets and thresholds. We have set eight of the nine. 
The ninth will be set momentarily. That will be a measure of 
how we measure success, but there are many others. Really to 
me, what is----
    Mr. Luttrell. Oracle needs to meet those nine standards----
    Dr. Evans. Right.
    Mr. Luttrell [continuing]. before we consider Michigan a 
success and then we flex to the next facility?
    Dr. Evans. Right. I think those standards are--I mean, 
these are--some of the metrics are operational metrics, right? 
It is how we measure quality of care at our facilities. It is 
access to care for veterans. It is wait times.
    Mr. Luttrell. All right. Let me break this down a little 
bit further. My question is, at what point in 2026 when Oracle 
activates Michigan, there is going to be those checks in the 
box. Now, if they get three out of the nine, are they good to 
go and that is considered a success, or do they have to have 
all nine? Which I would say obviously you need all nine, but I 
am asking you.
    Dr. Evans. I mean, my preference is that we are meeting our 
goals across the board. Now having said that, I would say it 
is--we are deploying the Federal EHR in Michigan, right? This 
is a partnership that VA and Oracle Health are going to need to 
do this together to success--and frankly, with the local 
leadership in Michigan, and so we--the success here is a shared 
project. I would say that is number one. Number two, yes, I 
would like us to see us meeting our goals across all the 
metrics.
    Mr. Luttrell. If--I am still trying to dig an answer out of 
you guys. My concern is that we kick the can down the road. We 
activate in Michigan and we only have a certain amount of 
successes out of those nine like, Hey, that is good enough, we 
are just going to go further and Michigan fails. Then here we 
are all over again and we have to go into another pause and 
projections well past $50 billion. Because of where we are 
currently, there has to be a line-by-line check that says, We 
are absolutely solid, Michigan is good to go, 100 percent, and 
now we are moving on.
    In my opinion, that is exactly where we are considering how 
many dollar bills are going to this project. I do not know if 
you can answer that question or not, Mr. Evans. Unless you want 
to----
    Dr. Evans. In short, I can say yes. System has got to be 
stable. It is got to work for end users. It has got to work for 
the operations of our medical centers, period. How we measure 
that is something that I meet with the committee staff on a 
monthly basis and we go through those metrics and we will 
continue to review those as we lead up to Michigan, and 
frankly, we are going to use those.
    Mr. Luttrell. When you move out of Michigan, is there an 
end date for Michigan where we activate here, we have got 2 
months and then we are going?
    Dr. Evans. We go live at Michigan, and then typically, we 
are looking to see operations restored at the medical center in 
the three-to four-month timeframe after a go-live.
    Mr. Luttrell. Three to four months in Michigan alone.
    Dr. Evans. I think--I mean, I think one of the things here, 
as we talked about earlier, right? If we wait, we have a 
challenge in front of us, right? We--the longer VA operates as 
a healthcare system with two different electronic health 
records, the more risk that we are taking on. We have to 
balance the need to move forward toward a single electronic 
health record to support an integrated national healthcare 
system in VA. If we are going to move forward with the Federal 
EHR, which is our plan, commitment, and desire, then we cannot 
just wait for Michigan to be over and spend another year 
deciding whether we were successful or not.
    we are going to have to measure together as we move forward 
our success month to month. It is one of the reasons why I meet 
with this committee every single month. It is because we need 
to be assessing our progress at that frequency. Because if we 
do not start to do work at sites beyond Michigan, we will get 
to the end of Michigan and we are going to have another 18 
months to wait for the next go-live.
    Mr. Luttrell. What if Michigan--I am sorry, Mr. Chairman, I 
am over. You know where I was going with that.
    Mr. Barrett. I will come back to you in a moment. Okay.
    Ms. Harris, I want to go back to your earlier point. 
Assuming we roll out in Michigan in 2026, that would give us 
how many sites have been--have had the new electronic health 
record implemented at that point?
    Ms. Harris. 10 sites.
    Mr. Barrett. 10 sites. How many would remain?
    Ms. Harris. 160.
    Mr. Barrett. 160. It is your opinion and your testimony 
that it would be impossible to implement the remaining 160 by 
May 2028. Is that correct?
    Ms. Harris. That is correct, based on the previous track 
record and also, based on the fact that all of these sites 
have--are very bespoke. They are customized, and so, the change 
management associated with each of these individual sites, I do 
not think you can standardize that.
    I think some might take longer than others, and it is just 
very hard to predict, but collectively, within a 2-year time 
period, considering it took them basically 6 years, 6 to 7 
years to implement a 10 and you are talking 160, when you 
compare, to me, there is no way they are going to get that all 
done.
    Mr. Barrett. Right. Okay.
    Ms. Verma, obviously the next question for you is, are we 
going to be through with the next 160 sites by May 2028?
    Ms. Verma. I think there is a lot of variables here, right? 
There is a technology piece. There is a training piece. There 
is a people piece of this. There is also internal processes at 
the VA. You know----
    Mr. Barrett. I think a simple no would probably be the 
easiest answer.
    Ms. Verma. We have been working with the VA around 
acceleration and how to do that, and there are multiple things 
that need to be addressed in order for us to move faster and to 
move quicker, and I think we are working toward that.
    Mr. Barrett. Yes or no, is it your position that this can 
be implemented by May 2028?
    Ms. Verma. From a technology perspective, yes, but there 
are other pieces of this that have to come along with the 
technology.
    Mr. Barrett. We live in the real world that we live in. We 
do not live in the just hit send on the computer and it works.
    Ms. Verma. Right.
    Mr. Barrett. Understanding the real-world conditions that 
we are in, understanding we do not have a schedule, to Mr. 
Case's point, Dr. Evans, do you feel that there are any 
possibility we can be implemented in the remaining sites by May 
2028?
    Dr. Evans. No.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. Mr. Case, do you?
    Mr. Case. I do not see how it could happen. I would like to 
see what the plan is if they were going to do it.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. Ms. Verma, do you feel that this is even 
possible? I mean, can we even pretend anymore?
    Ms. Verma. Like I said, we are responsible for the 
technology standpoint, and we have said to VA from a technology 
standpoint that may be possible, but there are other pieces 
that go along, and we will acknowledge, right? That the VA, 
whether it is standardization, whether it is integrations, 
there is a lot of things that would need to happen to be able 
to meet that timeline. We are committed to doing that.
    However, that there is also other pieces of it and we would 
need to work with VA on that, and we are having discussions 
about that, about what the timeline should be and what the 
schedule should be, and what are the things that need to happen 
to be able to accelerate.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. I think even with acceleration, it is 
impossible to expect that we can be anywhere close to that by 
May 2028.
    Now, Dr. Evans, to follow up on Mr. Luttrell's point, 
assuming we are in Michigan for several months, I think he was 
getting to the point of what if it is not good? What if it is 
not working? What if the checklist is not adequate? What if we 
are stuck in the position we were in the initial rollout? What 
if these are not going as well as we would like? What happens 
then? Do we go into another stand-down freeze? Do we keep 
accelerating as Ms. Verma has suggested? What do we do then?
    Dr. Evans. It is an excellent question. I would say this. I 
do not--I think we have to succeed, and I think we should be 
looking----
    Mr. Barrett. I would have said that 7 years ago too. I 
mean, we had to succeed then and we did not, leading us to 
where we are now. I agree with you, we have to, but we have to 
acknowledge the track record that led us to where we are now 
for the reality in which we are facing.
    Dr. Evans. Right. I understand that. I still believe that 
we need to succeed and we need to be working toward Michigan, 
with the understanding that that is what we must do. Your 
question is a question of well, what would we do if we did not 
succeed. I think we would be having very hard discussions right 
here in this room, most likely, but where I am working with our 
team, and frankly, where we are working at VA across the agency 
is to say this is something we must do, and I will tell you 
this.
    In Michigan, they are enthusiastic. The sites are 
enthusiastic in Michigan. One of the things that I think you 
are well aware of in Michigan is that the sites in Michigan 
work in a very interdependent fashion. Specialty care for 
veterans who are receiving care in the Battle Creek or Saginaw 
system often is delivered through Detroit or Ann Arbor. Lab 
services are shared across the VISN. The idea of--the 
opportunity to move from four separate instances of an 
electronic health record supporting four separate VA medical 
centers that are trying to operate more and more like one, they 
look at the opportunity here to have a single electronic health 
record for all four sites to support their sharing and care for 
veterans in the Michigan market as a huge opportunity.
    I think we should feel some level of confidence when the 
sites are saying this is something we want, that we are ready 
for.
    Mr. Barrett. All right. Thank you.
    Ranking member Budzinski.
    Ms. Budzinski. I appreciate that. I wanted to actually 
shift gears a little bit to AI as something that Oracle had 
talked a little bit about in the written testimony. Can you 
explain, Ms. Verma, how AI is being used in this instance?
    Ms. Verma. A lot of the AI that we are going to be 
deploying will come in sort of the modernization. I will say 
from the outset with whatever AI that we do deploy is that 
providers and physicians are always in control, right? This is 
not AI doing things, but giving options and helping and 
supporting, but decision-making about clinical care and all 
workflows, there is a human in the loop. I would start out by 
saying that.
    I think what we have done to improve the her sort of 
outside the VA but that can be applied and we are willing to 
provide to the VA. For example, we have brought something 
called our clinical AI agent, right? Which can--if the patient 
agrees and the doctor's on board with it, you can listen to the 
patient/doctor interaction and can generate a note. That is one 
of the first things that we have brought to the market.
    The second thing that we are bringing is a brand new EHR to 
the market, and that has AI infused across all of it, so if you 
think about a physician coming in to seeing a patient, today 
and really any EHR, you have to do a lot of searching. Look at 
their labs. Look at all their previous diagnoses. Especially 
for a veteran where they have complex healthcare conditions, 
and they have multiple co-morbidities, that is actually quite 
complex. What AI can do is give them a summary of the patient. 
It can detail here is all the different things.
    The other piece that AI can do is it can help actually 
provide guidance to the provider and say, okay, based on this 
veteran's health condition, here are the care gaps. That is 
actually--we are actually bringing that in today, but AI can 
also--the provider has questions, bring me this, or it has a 
specific question, it can actually ask the her that and that is 
actually given.
    The other thing that we can do with AI is we can identify 
if there is research going on in the facility, and is this 
patient a candidate for the research that is going on in that 
facility as well? I would say that AI is also going to automate 
a lot of the manual work that we see going on with providers, 
especially in the area of our reimbursements and collections 
and that particular area. There is a lot of manual work that 
goes on with that today. Think about scheduling and 
administration.
    That is where I think by applying some of this modern 
technology, there is also some efficiencies to be gained by the 
VA as well, and it allows the providers to spend time with the 
patient and not doing a lot of administrative work.
    Ms. Budzinski. Is this--I mean, that type of innovation, is 
that covered under the current contract, or will there be 
additional cost associated with that?
    Ms. Verma. There are some pieces, like our clinical AI 
agent, which are in scope. In terms of the new EHR that we 
have--that we are bringing to the market, we are committed to 
providing that to the VA at no additional cost, so even though 
our contract specifies Millennium, our leadership has agreed 
that we would like to provide that to the veterans, because we 
think that that is going to give the most optimal experience, 
and it will improve care and quality for veterans, and that is 
the most important thing, so we are committed to doing that.
    Ms. Budzinski. How does Oracle look at quality and safety 
as it relates to this issue of AI and veterans and patient 
care?
    Ms. Verma. Sure. Safety is a high priority. We have got 
many systems and processes in place to assure that. I think the 
most important thing is that when we are deploying AI in 
anything that we deploy, there is always a human in the loop, 
right?
    This is supposed to be a tool. It is supposed to be an 
assistant. AI is not a decision-maker. Everything that we 
deploy, and even if we look at things like we are providing at 
the--let us say the provider asks a question, we will not only 
provide an answer to the question, but we will also identify 
the source of the data.
    Let us say we are providing a summary of the patient's 
history. In the summary that we provide, we will actually 
detail exactly where the data came from, so it is not like the 
provider is getting guidance and we are getting a 
recommendation, whatever you want to call it. They know exactly 
where that came from. I think the most important thing that we 
are doing is that the human is always in the loop in these 
processes. That is how we are applying AI.
    Ms. Budzinski. Will the system require informed consent 
from the veteran before AI is used during their appointment?
    Ms. Verma. Yes, and that is completely up to the VA in 
terms of making sure that those consents and how they want to 
put those processes in place. I think the most obvious one 
today that we are already using is around our clinical AI agent 
that generates the notes, and in those situations the provider 
always asks the patient, are they comfortable with that.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Just going back to something I would 
asked about earlier, not on AI, but related, Dr. Evans, when I 
was asking early on about some of the VA cuts and thinking 
about cost to staff, do you expect that the VA might have to 
take on additional contracts to supplement for where some of 
the staff might have been cut in order to make sure that we are 
properly going live in March?
    Dr. Evans. I think it is too early to tell that. We are 
still looking to make sure that we are optimizing how our 
current staff is deployed to meet the needs of the program.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. I yield back. Thanks.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you. Mr. Luttrell.
    Mr. Luttrell. Thank you, sir. Dr. Evans, is all of the 
veterans' healthcare data being moved into the Oracle cloud?
    Dr. Evans. Yes. Let me--so the--we have migrated data from 
the VistA systems and actually every day are migrating data 
from the VistA systems, our electronic health record, into what 
is called HDI, Health Data Intelligence, it is an Oracle 
product that will be hosted in the Oracle cloud.
    That data then supports--is migrated into the Oracle 
electronic health records support care delivery so that when 
the provider logs in--one of the challenges when you move to a 
new electronic health record is if you have to start over and 
find all the information and repopulate the new record with the 
information, it is a significant burden on providers and staff, 
nurses and the like, to do that population of the electronic 
health record.
    VA made a significant investment in partnership with Oracle 
Heath to migrate a significant amount of data from our existing 
electronic health record, VistA, into the Federal EHR, which 
should help ease the transition.
    Mr. Luttrell. Which Oracle controls in their cloud?
    Dr. Evans. It is VA's data.
    Mr. Luttrell. Hopefully. God willing, that stays the same.
    Does anyone--Ms. Verma, is the data that has moved from the 
VA into the Oracle cloud, is it standalone and no one else can 
touch it?
    Ms. Verma. Correct. It is a standalone. All the data rights 
and everything specify that that is controlled by the VA. It is 
actually shared between the VA and the DOD.
    Mr. Luttrell. Okay. Other organizations that work with 
Oracle and work with Oracle cloud system, they cannot access 
that data at all?
    Ms. Verma. Correct. They do not have access to it.
    Mr. Luttrell. It is completely standalone.
    Ms. Verma. Completely standalone.
    Mr. Luttrell. Okay. Thank you.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you.
    Dr. Evans, you said it takes sites, on average, several 
months, 3, 4 months maybe, to basically fully recover, if you 
will, and get back to full-steam operations after implementing 
this. Do you feel that the sites that have already implemented 
this new electronic health record are fully recovered, fully 
functional, and fully operational right now?
    Dr. Evans. I think one thing I would clarify with that is 
that what we have learned, thus far, is that the recovery 
varies based on the specialty, based on where the care is being 
delivered. For example, urgent care and the Emergency Room (ER) 
recover their productivity almost near instantaneously, which 
is important, because we cannot have volumes decreasing in 
urgent care in the ER. Whereas in primary care, as an example, 
in part secondary to perhaps some of the configuration 
decisions with the electronic health record, in part secondary 
to the complexity of primary care having to deal with a 
patient's entire set of health issues, medication management, 
for example, productivity, recovery lags in primary care, so it 
is not exactly the same across the entire medical center.
    Having said that, we are measuring productivity across the 
entire medical center at each of our facilities. We have seen a 
positive and appropriate trend at all facilities, and they are, 
for the most part, at their pre-go live levels of productivity, 
actually pre-pandemic, pre go-live levels of productivity.
    Mr. Barrett. Spokane and the other facilities are nearing 
pre go-live productivity marks across the spectrum?
    Dr. Evans. Yes. I do not have the exact numbers right here. 
That is on our dashboard. We share that regularly. It is north 
of 85 percent across all facilities. Some are above 100 
percent. We can certainly share those numbers.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. I know you said earlier that we must 
succeed in this, and I fully agree with you. We have not, 
though, given in the more recent discussion just now, given a 
lot of consideration for the cost, and the cost of this is an 
unknown at this point. I think yes, we have to--we have to make 
this work, but we also have to be mindful and knowledgeable 
about the cost that that is going to take. I think to the other 
observer standpoint, that is something that remains an unknown. 
I do not know if you can----
    Dr. Evans. Yes, I can agree, and as I mentioned earlier, we 
are committed to building out the integrated master schedule. 
The integrated master schedule is the foundation for building a 
life cycle cost estimate.
    Mr. Barrett. How long until we can expect to see that?
    Dr. Evans. I think, as I mentioned, our plan is to do that 
iteratively, so the first phase that you will see is the 
integrated master schedule for Michigan. What is happening at 
this very moment in Michigan is what we call the current state 
reviews that will inform the build of the integrated master 
schedule by April for the Michigan sites. Then we will begin to 
plot out the schedule beyond Michigan and build that integrated 
master schedule then to the end of the contract.
    We are accelerating that effort. I cannot give you an exact 
date right now that we will be finished, but we understand how 
important that is to be able to build the life-cycle cost 
estimate. We are very aware of the importance of getting that 
information to you and frankly others that are at the end of 
the table here.
    Mr. Barrett. If we are years, plural, into this, and we 
still do not have the schedule and we are scheduling the 
schedule, how can we expect to get that in a reasonable--just 
to get our arms around it? I mean, our position here as members 
of this committee is to look at the effectiveness of this, the 
oversight of it, but also the cost of it, and are we delivering 
a good value for the people that sent us here to spend their 
money on their behalf, and we cannot even do that without an 
analysis of what that is going to look like.
    Dr. Evans. Yes. I mean, I know this--I do not want to 
make--I am making a promise in the sense that I can promise you 
that work is going on right now. I was just in meetings looking 
at the analysis of cost to date, our projections of what that 
cost looks like moving forward. We are actively working on the 
life-cycle cost estimate, and I look forward to keeping you up 
to date. We understand that it is important for you to get that 
soon--sooner rather than later.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate the--everyone 
here, to our witnesses for appearing today to discuss the 
future of the electronic health record modernization program. I 
understand committee members--sorry. Ranking Member Budzinski 
for your closing remarks.
    Ms. Budzinski. Thank you very much. I appreciate everyone's 
time and the panel's discussion and the thoughtful questions 
from my colleagues. I think one of the things that is very 
clear is that we all share a lot of really deep concerns about 
our next go-live date. I am encouraged to hear Dr. Evans 
talking about the integrated master schedule and working toward 
some real metrics that have been recommendations from the GAO 
and the OIG to address some of these concerns.
    That being said, I think it is really important that we are 
not pressured into this accelerated--the VA, I should say, is 
not pressured into the accelerated timeline of 2028 by anyone, 
really just to avoid a potential contract extension, because 
this really is ultimately about veterans' healthcare and making 
sure that they are getting the health care that they deserve 
and it is being administered to them. I think we share 
collectively, I have a lot of concerns. I think we have some 
steps to address some of those, and I look forward to 
continuing this conversation. Thank you very much.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you. Thank you for keeping me well-
behaved. Again, I want to thank our witnesses for appearing 
today. Thank you for the testimony that you provided. I know 
that many of you spent hours, plural, probably tens of hours, 
hundreds of hours developing and analyzing this. As I stated at 
the beginning, I am new to this committee and new to this 
Congress and new to this issue, but I am invested in making 
sure that we deliver the outcome that we all should expect.
    I know you all understand when I say this is not just an IT 
system. It has a lot of individuals and their health that 
depend upon this. The productivity and the morale of the people 
doing the work as well as the outcomes for health for our 
veterans, it directly affects all of them.
    The veterans that I represent in Michigan's Seventh 
congressional district are going to be among the first to find 
out if this system has fundamentally improved since the reset. 
The facilities in Battle Creek and Ann Arbor, specifically, are 
where the majority of veterans in my district go for their 
healthcare. It is why I am concerned by the talk of speeding up 
the pace of go lives considering the VA has only done one 
partially successful go live in the last 3 years with 
assistance, again, from the Department of Defense, and with the 
complexity coming with the facilities in Michigan, it gives me 
a great deal of concern for that.
    It is far more important the VA does this right instead of 
fast. The plan is to continue fixing the system's problem while 
preparing to go live in Michigan, and that is something that we 
need to be very mindful of. The subcommittee expects VA and 
Oracle to show that they can get this right before veterans and 
VA staff in Michigan have to figure it out for themselves.
    Dr. Evans, I am encouraged by your remarks that the staff 
in Michigan are very excited about the opportunity that lies 
before them to integrate this together in the way that they 
have been interoperably intending to do in Michigan for some 
time now.
    Thank you again for all of you for participating in today's 
hearing. I want to thank the members of the committee for your 
questions and remarks as well. I will ask unanimous consent 
that all members have 5 legislative days to revise and extend 
their remarks and include extraneous material. Without 
objection, so ordered. With that, this hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 4:47 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]   
=======================================================================


                         A  P  P  E  N  D  I  X

=======================================================================


                    Prepared Statements of Witnesses

                              ----------                              


                    Prepared Statement of Neil Evans

    Good afternoon, Chairman Barrett, Ranking Member Budzinski, and 
distinguished Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for the 
opportunity to testify today about the initiative of the Department of 
Veterans Affairs (VA) to modernize its electronic health record (EHR) 
system.
    I want to begin by thanking Congress and this Committee for your 
shared commitment to Veterans and for your continued support of the VA 
Electronic Health Record Modernization (EHRM) efforts. This testimony 
comes at a pivotal moment. With new leadership at the VA, there is a 
renewed commitment to ensuring that every aspect of the EHR 
modernization efforts is reevaluated. Secretary Collins made it clear 
in his confirmation hearing that the status quo is not acceptable. 
Every previous decision, policy, and process must be thoroughly 
reviewed to ensure that it aligns with our core mission: providing 
Veterans with the highest quality care through a system that works for 
them, not against them. Specifically, we are going to take a hard look 
into previous EHR efforts. That process has begun. The VA is committed 
to successfully implementing a modernized, interoperable Federal EHR 
system across its enterprise. VA's implementation of the Federal EHR 
system will provide a single, accurate, lifetime health record for 
Veterans that includes their health records from the Department of 
Defense (DoD). The new Federal EHR will provide a framework for 
improved enterprise standardization of health care delivery, which will 
positively impact patient care quality and safety. The Federal EHR will 
support simpler integration of other modern health information 
technologies and infrastructure to provide a more coordinated 
experience for VA staff and clinicians as they care for Veterans. The 
modernized EHR will support improved interoperability with the rest of 
the American health care system.
    VA's focus is keeping Veterans at the center of everything we do. 
Veterans deserve high-quality health care, which means health care that 
is timely, safe, Veteran-centric, evidence-based, and efficient. The 
EHR is, and will remain, a key enabler of VA's ability to deliver the 
comprehensive health care Veterans deserve. VA remains committed to 
delivering an EHR that will support these goals. In addition, the 
adoption of a single system used by VA and DoD will help simplify 
health care delivery for providers in both Departments, benefiting 
patients who receive care in both systems or who are transitioning from 
DoD to VA for care. It will improve opportunities for collaboration and 
joint operations between the health care systems.
    VA paused deployments of the Federal EHR system after listening to 
feedback from Veterans and staff who said the new EHR was not meeting 
expectations. VA announced the EHRM Program Reset on April 21, 2023, 
with goals of (a) addressing the concerns of the sites where the system 
was live, (b) investing in foundational enterprise work necessary for 
long-term success, and (c) preparing for successful system deployment 
at the Captain James A. Lovell Federal Health Care Facility in North 
Chicago, Illinois (Lovell FHCC), the sole exception to deployment 
activities. A little less than a year later, on March 9, 2024, VA, DoD, 
and the Federal Electronic Health Record Modernization Office (FEHRM) 
realized one of those goals by successfully and jointly launching the 
Federal EHR system at Lovell FHCC and at its affiliated clinical health 
care sites.
    Throughout the EHRM Program Reset period, VA took steps to 
understand the issues, updated our contracts to better hold Oracle 
Health accountable, made hundreds of improvements to the system, and 
instituted a simpler and more effective process to address concerns 
when they arise. It's important to review these lessons and ensure they 
are learned and implemented. The VA is committed to delivering an 
effective EHR that supports seamless care for Veterans and enables VA 
employees to efficiently document and access important health 
information. Specific program outcomes will include:

      Ensuring Veterans Have Trust in the EHR system: Veteran 
outpatient trust scores have increased at all Federal EHR system sites 
since the beginning of the Reset period--reaching 93 percent at the 
Columbus VA Medical Center (VAMC) in Ohio, which is an 11.6 percent 
increase since Quarter 1 (Q1) of fiscal year (FY) 2023; 88 percent at 
the Walla Walla VAMC in Washington state, which is a 4 percent increase 
since Q1 FY 2023; 92 percent at the Mann-Grandstaff VAMC in Washington 
state, which is a 3.5 percent increase since Q1 FY 2023; 85 percent at 
the Roseburg VAMC in Oregon, which is a 5.2 percent increase since Q1 
FY 2023; and 89 percent at White City VAMC in Oregon, which is a nearly 
6.5 percent increase since Q1 FY 2023. In addition, Veteran trust at 
the North Chicago VAMC has increased to 90.8 percent from 90.2 percent 
since Federal EHR system deployment in Q2 FY 2024. These improvements 
are the result of direct surveys of Veterans and their experience with 
VA outpatient health care, and it is important to ensure that these 
numbers of trust continue to increase.

      Dramatically decreasing outages, which disrupt patient 
care: Since January 2024, there has been a significant decrease in 
outages for the Federal EHR system--with the system functioning 100 
percent of the time for 10 of the last 16 months, and 99.8 percent of 
the time or better in the remaining months. As of January 11, 2025, it 
had been over 250 days since the Federal EHR system last experienced an 
outage.

      Decreasing the number of interruptions for clinicians, 
therefore minimizing slowdowns for Veterans: The average user now 
experiences near zero interruptions (freezes or delays, for example) 
per day.

      Increasing clinician and staff satisfaction: Clinician 
and staff satisfaction with the Federal EHR system has increased--
including increases in agreement in employee surveys with the phrases 
``the EHR is available when I need it'' and ``this EHR enables me to 
deliver high-quality care.''

      Launching the Federal EHR system successfully in Chicago: 
During the Reset period, VA launched the Federal EHR system in North 
Chicago because it is a joint facility with DoD. The facility saw a 
rapid increase in productivity and use--outperforming previous 
rollouts.

    In light of these improvements, on December 20, 2024, VA announced 
that it was beginning onsite planning efforts to deploy the Federal EHR 
system to four Michigan facilities in Ann Arbor, Battle Creek, Detroit, 
and Saginaw. Representatives from the EHRM Integration Office, Veterans 
Health Administration (VHA), and the Office of Information and 
Technology (OIT) compiled functional and technical metrics to determine 
the best sequence for restarting site deployments. These metrics served 
as data points to evaluate site readiness and were closely considered, 
along with input from VHA, Veterans Integrated Service Network (VISN), 
and VAMC leaders to determine selection and sequencing for these new 
deployments. The final order and dates of system go-live events at the 
sites will be determined by the findings of the current state reviews 
(CSR) that are being completed as part of ongoing pre-deployment 
activities. It takes more than a year to safely and effectively prepare 
for a go-live.
    The new VA leadership is rigorously reviewing the current State of 
EHR and looking for ways to accelerate the previous timelines that were 
committed to and will share with Congress what next steps are decided.
    Based on lessons learned from previous deployments, the 
preparations for going live will include new approaches to optimize 
adoption and engagement for future users of the Federal EHR system, 
such as the development of more ``Learning Labs,'' which proved 
successful with our go-live at the Lovell FHCC, to allow end users to 
practice their skills in a simulation environment prior to go-live. 
Other improved or new approaches include improving onsite engagement 
during and after go-live, offering informal sessions for sharing tips, 
streamlining computer-based training, and further enhancing the 
Refresh, Optimize, Adopt, and Reinforce (named ROAR) Initiative to 
support continuous improvement, even after go-live events have 
concluded.
    VA leadership acknowledges there is still work ahead and is 
committed to ensuring that we continue to listen to employees who are 
using the Federal EHR system, that we use their feedback to make 
enhancements to improve the system, and that we are ready and have a 
solid foundation for upcoming deployments. The continuous improvement 
efforts we have been focusing on during the Reset will continue 
unabated while VA begins early stage deployment efforts in Michigan. 
For example, VA identified several areas for improvement that are 
important for long-term success, which required re-visiting decisions 
made early in the program. These projects are more significant than a 
simple fix and are being referred to as ``big rocks''--due to our 
prioritization of these efforts and because of the complex scope of the 
tasks. Some of these projects include further improving training for 
new users; standardizing and consolidating user roles in the system; 
and delivering pharmacy capabilities to improve coordination between 
ordering clinicians and pharmacy professionals. Notably, an important 
part of the planned pharmacy improvements, known as ``pharmacy 3b'' is 
scheduled for release this month as part of a bi-annual software code 
update.
    Another improvement that will increase efficiencies and prevent 
future delays is the development of the Federal EHR system baseline, a 
tool that provides information on more than 2,300 functional and 
technology components that make up the Federal EHR system and was 
established as part of an enterprise-wide effort to better standardize 
the delivery of health care in VA. Using the baseline to better conform 
to national VA standards in advance of go-live will help avoid staff 
frustration, deployment delays, and increased cost.
    Ongoing improvements at existing sites and pre-deployment 
activities at future sites can occur at the same time. We can, and are, 
doing both at this time. VA is continuing to move forward with a 
modern, commercial EHR solution in close coordination with our Federal 
partners, including DoD and the FEHRM. This new Federal EHR system will 
ultimately improve Veterans' health outcomes. Not only that, but the 
new Federal system will also house Veterans' health care records in one 
place from the first day they put on their uniforms to the last day of 
their lives. It will empower Veterans to receive care that is more 
seamlessly coordinated across the enterprise. It will help providers 
more holistically understand injuries or illnesses that Veterans 
suffered years ago, so that they can provide those Veterans with the 
best possible care today. It has the potential to further streamline VA 
operations and most importantly, it will improve the Veteran 
experience.
    Veterans are at the center of everything we do. Ultimately, our 
goal is to deliver an EHR system that earns the trust of Veterans, 
clinicians, and staff. This means a system that works efficiently, 
enhances care coordination, reduces administrative burden, and will 
improve health outcomes for Veterans. We are not simply continuing 
business as usual - we are committed to getting this right. The 
responsibility we carry is immense, and we will not rest until this 
system delivers what our Veterans and providers truly need. With the 
activities and improvements that are now underway, VA leaders are 
optimistic about the success of our Federal EHR system optimization 
efforts and the eventual full implementation of the system throughout 
VA.
    With the partnership of this Subcommittee, we look forward to 
making the changes necessary to fulfill the vision over the course of 
the 119th Congress. Furthermore, I extend my gratitude for your 
commitment to serving Veterans with excellence. Together, we will build 
a system that honors their service and improves their care for 
generations to come.
    This concludes our testimony. We look forward to responding to any 
questions that you may have.
                                 ______
                                 

                   Prepared Statement of Seema Verma

Introduction

    Chairman Barrett, Ranking Member Budzinski, and members of the 
Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today 
about Oracle's work with the Department of Veterans Affairs' (VA) 
Electronic Health Record Modernization (EHRM) program.
    On Dec. 20, 2024, VA announced they were beginning the pre-planning 
activities for deployments of the EHRM program, and pre-deployment work 
has begun at four sites in Michigan: Ann Arbor, Battle Creek, Detroit, 
and Saginaw. Pre-deployment work begins with a Current State Review 
(CSR).\1\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ A CSR is a thorough evaluation of a VA Medical Center's (VAMC) 
current infrastructure, workflows, processes, and technologies that 
interact with the EHR system. This includes technical aspects such as 
hardware, network infrastructure, and existing software applications 
and integrations, as well as operational workflows like patient 
registration and clinical documentation. CSRs involve interviews and 
discussions with key stakeholders across various departments at the 
local site--administrative, clinical, and IT teams--to understand their 
VA service scope and specific needs related to the EHR system. 
Ultimately, with this information, Oracle provides actionable 
recommendations to address gaps and ensure smooth implementation of the 
EHR system. This could include updates to infrastructure, training 
plans for staff, or adjustments to clinical workflows.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The CSR is followed by a period of approximately 12 months of site 
preparation, training, etc. before a go-live. Oracle is working with VA 
to compress this timeframe so that the time from starting CSRs and 
doing pre-deployment work to the day of go-live is shorter. Depending 
on how much we can compress this timeline, we anticipate the four sites 
in Michigan to go-live sometime in the first half of 2026, hopefully 
early 2026.
    While we are excited to restart deployment work at these four 
sites, we have encouraged VA to accelerate deployment activities and 
expand the number of sites to deploy to so that we can more quickly get 
this program back on course. Beginning CSR work now for additional 
sites is critical so that, assuming the four deployments in Michigan go 
well, we have new sites ready to deploy to later in 2026 and a 
continuing pipeline of sites ready for deployments.

Acceleration

    We are working very closely with VA to determine the best course of 
action for accelerating deployments and building a schedule that will 
enable this program to successfully deploy the new EHR across all of 
VA's healthcare system. Maintaining the current pace will take decades, 
which is not acceptable to anyone, and which is why we recommend the 
path of acceleration. For acceleration to succeed, there is work we 
need to do, and work VA needs to do. We are very encouraged from our 
initial meetings with Sec. Collins and VA, as we do this important 
planning.
    Oracle recognizes there are high levels of skepticism for how a 
program that has only deployed to six VA Medical Centers (VAMC) in six 
years can rapidly scale up to complete 164 additional deployments in a 
timely manner. This skepticism is driven by a largely negative public 
narrative about EHRM that has not caught up to the current state of 
affairs.
    We believe this is due to lack of understanding of the significant 
investments Oracle Health is making to accelerate and scale deployments 
as well as the technological updates made to the EHR system, and the 
significant improvement work done during the Reset. This testimony will 
explain those updates and improvements in detail.
    Oracle Health is fully committed to this mission, and as part of 
our ongoing efforts, we have significantly enhanced and are overhauling 
our deployment methods and tools. Leveraging Oracle's deep expertise in 
engineering, automation, and scalable technologies, we are implementing 
a suite of innovations designed to accelerate deployment timelines, 
scale our efforts, and reduce resourcing dependencies. Key initiatives 
include:

    1. Streamlining Deployment Methodology: We are adopting a national 
standard and a robust change management process that will then minimize 
deployment activities designed to accommodate site-specific 
customization requests. This approach ensures consistency, reduces 
complexity, and accelerates deployment by allowing us to replicate 
deployments across multiple sites with greater speed and precision.

    2. Automating Testing: By investing in advanced testing automation 
tools, we reduce manual testing efforts, shorten the testing phase, and 
improve reliability. Automation ensures that each deployment is 
thoroughly tested in less time, enabling us to support a higher volume 
of simultaneous deployments without compromising quality.

    3. Automating User Onboarding: Oracle is implementing sophisticated 
user onboarding automation processes that streamline user provisioning 
and access. By automating these critical tasks, we significantly reduce 
manual effort, minimize delays, and ensure faster user access to the 
EHR, allowing us to scale deployments with fewer resources.

    4. Web-Based Data Collection and Automating EHR Configuration: We 
are introducing a web-based tool to collect site-specific data more 
efficiently. This tool allows us to gather the necessary information 
from VAMCs quickly and more efficiently. Once the data is collected, we 
can automate the process of configuring the EHR system to meet the 
needs of each site. With our web-based data collection tools and 
automation, we will speed up the overall deployment and reduce manual 
work.

    5. Automating Domain Refreshes: We are automating the process of 
refreshing system domains. This means that when updates or changes need 
to be made to the system, we no longer require manual intervention, 
which can be time-consuming and disruptive. Automation helps keep the 
system up to date with less effort, minimizes downtime, and frees up 
our resources to focus on other tasks, allowing us to handle more 
deployments simultaneously.

    6. Leveraging Virtual Training: Oracle is scaling training 
capabilities by investing in virtual training methods, including on-
demand learning platforms and interactive virtual environments. This 
shift reduces our dependence on instructor-led sessions and enables us 
to provide training to larger cohorts of users, significantly 
increasing the number of simultaneous deployments we can support while 
ensuring that all stakeholders receive timely and effective training.

    7. Expanding Partner Ecosystem: To support the growing demands of 
our accelerated deployment schedule, Oracle is engaging additional 
strategic partners, including large enterprises, to supplement 
staffing. These partners bring in specialized expertise and scale, 
ensuring that we can maintain high levels of support and execution 
across multiple deployment streams without overloading our internal 
resources.

    Through these strategic investments in automation, process 
streamlining, and resource scaling, Oracle is positioning itself to not 
only meet the demands of the current deployment schedule but to exceed 
expectations by delivering faster, more efficient, and scalable 
deployments across the entire VA network.
    When the work of the Reset is combined with the successful 
deployment of the EHR to Lovell Federal Health Care Center (FHCC) last 
year, the completion of the entire Department of Defense (DoD) 
deployment, the delivery of pharmacy and other enhancements, and the 
technological improvements that we are bringing to the program to 
enable more efficient deployments, it is clear we are not in the same 
place in 2025 as we were in 2018 or 2019, and certainly not since 
Oracle acquired Cerner in June 2022.

    Consider the following:

    1) The Millennium EHR that will be deployed at new sites is not the 
same as was deployed at the first six sites. Oracle has made 
investments that have made the EHR more stable, and Oracle has made 
extensive updates, enhancements, and simplifications to the EHR.

        a. At the current live sites, all these updates have been 
        incorporated into the EHR, and it is being used more 
        productively than ever before.

        b. For example, during the Reset, more than 3,000 functional 
        changes have been completed for the EHR.

    2) Significant improvements have been accomplished in testing, 
training and change management practices.

    3) As part of our ``Big Rocks'' projects, we are implementing 
enhancements to address key areas for improvement identified by the six 
live facilities. These upgrades--focused on pharmacy, referrals, Quick 
Orders, and other aspects of the EHR--are designed to improve 
productivity, drive standardization, and enhance usability.

    4) We have greatly enhanced the process and procedures used for 
patient safety.

    5) VA, too, has made and is continuing to make significant strides 
in its standardization project, decision-making and change management.

    Moreover, technology has advanced, allowing Oracle to bring further 
improvements to the EHR system.

    1) Oracle is moving the EHR to the cloud, providing a base for 
highly scalable deployments, making future updates to the system much 
easier, and enhancing cybersecurity.

    2) We are automating and scaling our deployment and testing 
processes, which will reduce the amount of time from a CSR to go-live.

    3) Oracle is making significant investments in modernizing the EHR 
generally for all our customers. These updates are designed to improve 
usability, reduce user burden, and enhance tools that help providers 
increase the quality of care and improve patient outcomes.

    4) Oracle is using the latest innovations in Artificial 
Intelligence (AI) and integrating them into the EHR. When this program 
started, nobody was talking about integrating AI into EHR's. The great 
benefit to VA of utilizing a commercial provider is that they will be 
the recipient of this innovation, and more, as we continue to drive 
innovation in healthcare technology.

    In this vein, as we drive toward a full deployment, we are working 
with VA to bring new innovations to the system in 2025 so that veterans 
can begin to see the benefits of the modernization even before their 
local VAMC has deployed the new EHR. We intend to work collaboratively 
with VA to explore the introduction of our Clinical AI Agent (CAA) to 
the current live facilities this year and by early next year to all 
VistA sites, as the CAA is EHR-agnostic. CAA is an AI-powered voice 
assistant that provides context-aware summaries of a patient's history, 
including diagnoses, medications, lab results, and past encounters. It 
also provides ambient clinical documentation - capturing and 
transcribing patient conversations in real-time, automatically 
generating structured clinical notes.
    We have offered to speed VA's entry onto our Qualified Health 
Information Network (QHIN), which will enable every health system in 
the country to share patient data with VA. And we have offered to 
expand our Health Data Intelligence Platform (HDIP) from the current 
live sites to VistA sites. HDIP integrates data from various sources 
across the healthcare continuum, including the EHR, clinical systems, 
and third-party data providers, helping to close care gaps by 
proactively identifying missed interventions, enabling timely clinical 
actions, and supporting better health outcomes for veterans.
    With these advances and new offerings, and the work of the Reset, 
the EHRM program is ready to accelerate deployments. We recognize of 
course there are still opportunities for improvement and work to do - 
by Oracle and VA - to optimize the system. This work can be done in 
parallel with deployments and should not prevent us from taking 
advantage of this current opportunity to move the program forward.

    The remainder of this testimony continues in three sections:

          Then and Now: Accomplishments

          Opportunities Going Forward

          Innovation and Modernization for the EHRM Program

Then and Now: Accomplishments

    Since Oracle's acquisition of Cerner in June 2022, we have made 
significant improvements to the technical performance of the system, 
worked with VA to standardize and simplify care workflows, which are 
supported by the EHR, enhanced training, worked with the current live 
sites to improve productivity and revenue collections, and sped 
delivery of system optimizations such as the critical pharmacy 
enhancements, among other important updates described below.

Technical and Performance Improvements:

    At the time of Oracle's acquisition of Cerner in June 2022, the EHR 
system faced criticism for its performance. To this end, Oracle agreed 
to new Service Level Agreements with higher financial penalties. 
Immediately upon closing the acquisition and obtaining the keys to the 
Federal Enclave data center in Kansas City that runs VA, DoD and other 
federal users on the new Federal EHR, Oracle began applying our 
technical expertise, engineering rigor and stronger resources to 
stabilize and improve the system.
    Our work has paid off and the EHR system is now reliably running 
and consistently available for use without severe outages, incidents or 
long pauses or crashes.
    Part of ensuring a stable and performant system is strong testing 
processes and early engagement with the user community. We have 
instituted improved processes in this regard and are incorporating 
earlier user testing during the development process, as most recently 
demonstrated with Pharmacy 3b. This review process ensures that the 
correct levels of testing, including regression testing, are performed 
for each change.
    Making the engineering changes such a high priority shortly after 
the acquisition brought stability, which then enabled VA and Oracle to 
focus on usability changes, simplifications and standardization.

Reset Accomplishments and Improving EHR Usability:

    We are now nearly two years into the Reset, and while deployment 
activities are beginning for new sites, the work of the Reset will 
continue to prioritize optimization of the system for users. When VA 
and Cerner originally configured the system per direction from VA's 
National Councils, the effort at creating one system from 130 different 
instances of VistA led to overly complicated workflows and more 
``clicks'' and time spent in the EHR than providers were used to under 
VistA.
    During the Reset, Oracle and VA leadership visited the original 
five live sites to understand specific suggestions from end users to 
enhance the system. Oracle has made a total of 3,286 functional changes 
to the EHR, updated 154 workflows, and added 119 new workflows through 
Dec. 2024 based on feedback from users and a comprehensive review 
during the Reset. A change is defined as the addition of a new item 
that did not previously exist in the EHR or a modification to an 
existing item. In addition, many issues identified by users did not 
require a change to the EHR because they could be addressed with 
additional training, which is ongoing.
    This improved training as well as the simplifications and updates 
made during the Reset are intended to improve the end user experience. 
For example, working with VA we were given permission to make the 
following workflow changes from those originally decided by VA's 
National Councils in 2018 and 2019.

      Acute Physician Track/Emergency: Collaboration between 
appropriate VHA and DHA national groups and subject matter experts 
(SMEs) to converge on a list of stroke PowerPlans (including 
Telestroke) to increase efficiency and accuracy in caring for 
critically ill veterans.

      Ambulatory Core: Aligning search settings across all 
applications provides consistency in fields and supports the end users 
in selecting the correct patient, decreasing risk of error.

      Oncology: Multiple improvements to Oncology workflow, 
ensuring orders are activated on the correct encounter, documentation 
is easily accessible and visible to the care team, and facilitating 
communication efforts between team members to ensure veterans are 
scheduled and medications are available for veterans to receive the 
right care at the right time.

      Case Management: Clinical Documentation Improvement (CDI) 
mPage centralizes chart review to ensure clinical documentation is 
complete for charges to be made, easing the burden on end users and 
decreases time spent in navigating through various areas of the chart 
to find pertinent information.

      Women's Health: 16 PowerPlans were revamped to align 
existing content with current clinical guidelines aiding providers in 
providing consistent, up-to-date and evidence-based care for veterans. 
New content for women's health was implemented that includes risk 
assessments and standardized documentation for management and planning 
using American Society for Colposcopy and Cervical Pathology (ASCCP) 
guidelines. This data can now be viewed across the longitudinal record, 
improving the efficiency and care coordination for women veterans 
across the continuum.

      Pharmacy: Automated removal of discontinued or voided 
prescriptions from MMR eliminates the need for additional manual steps 
as pharmacists work through the e-Rx queue.

    In June 2024 Oracle collaborated with VA during five planning 
sessions to define thirteen so-called ``Big Rock'' projects that will 
help improve the user experience. These projects were selected by VA 
and range from the Pharmacy 3b/3c work to improving PowerForms and 
Quick Orders to standardization work and creating a new, data-driven 
deployment schedule sequencing tool. Many of these projects will 
address VA's unique needs.
    More than half of these projects are well in progress. Two have 
been completed, four will be completed by the end of May 2025 and four 
are currently in process.
    We are enthused that the Big Rocks work plan will address issues of 
high user concern and make a significant difference in operations for 
the currently live sites as well as improve adoption at future sites. 
We believe this work can be done in parallel with efforts to deploy to 
new sites.
    In addition, during the Reset and continuing to the present, VA has 
made changes as to its governance and standardization processes that 
are critical to optimizing the system quickly for VA users. By actively 
seeking and incorporating feedback from end users at live sites, VA has 
ensured that system improvements align with their needs. The commitment 
to ensuring end users have a voice has made sure that the optimization 
projects deliver meaningful benefits to both end users and veterans.

Revenue Collections:

    Across all live Oracle sites revenue collections activity in Fiscal 
Year 2024 was uniquely challenged due to the Feb. 2024 Change 
Healthcare cyber-attack, which caused claims processing to be 
completely halted at all VA sites for most of the operating period. 
Oracle sites were down from February through October while re-enabling 
billing activity in VistA was prioritized. Before that, at the start of 
Calendar Year 2024, the five live sites had seen improved performance 
with collections to target reaching 100.3 percent of target from 
January to March 2024.
    VA and Oracle worked together to aggressively manage existing 
backlogs to ensure the claims processing downtime didn't prevent 
collections metrics to dip significantly in FY24. The two CPACs where 
Oracle has live sites saw collections to target reach 100.1 percent 
(West CPAC) and 94.4 percent (North Central CPAC) respectively in FY24. 
That collaboration was further leveraged to facilitate expedited 
billing activity in Q1 of FY25 once claims processing was safely 
brought back up. Collections to target for the first 3 months of FY25 
at Oracle-related CPACs were as follows: Oct: 70.8 percent (claims 
processing still partially down), Nov: 442.6 percent, Dec: 347 percent. 
Recently deployed optimization projects have allowed for improved 
billing turnaround time, allowing for backlogs from FY24 to be managed 
effectively to help drive the performance gains referenced earlier.

Productivity:

    Productivity, in the context of healthcare, traditionally measures 
the volume of patient care delivered within a specific timeframe. It's 
a key indicator of how efficiently and effectively a healthcare system 
operates. When transitioning to a new EHR system, it's common for 
hospitals to experience a temporary dip in productivity. This is due to 
a variety of factors, including decreasing non-essential services to 
allow for the need for staff to learn new workflows, adapt to new 
technology, and adjust to changes in processes. The commercial market 
is driven by revenue and as a result clinicians are held accountable 
for ramping back up to full productivity within a set timeframe. 
Typically, it takes between three to six months for productivity to 
return to baseline levels after an EHR conversion.
    During the initial rollouts, VA took longer to return to baseline 
levels compared to typical commercial clients or DoD. However, 
measuring patient loads and productivity under VistA and Millennium has 
been challenging. Productivity is measured by workload credit (or RVUs, 
which are the national standard for measuring productivity, budgeting, 
and expense allocation) in MCA Vera (fed by VistA). When VA originally 
configured the workflows for the new Federal EHR, VA did not include 
the necessary requirements to measure productivity in the same way that 
it was measured in VistA. Oracle has recommended that VA engage on a 
workload optimization project since 2022 to ensure this can be 
accurately addressed moving forward. As a result, VA and Oracle have 
initiated planning sessions to ensure they have the requirements in the 
system to ensure comparable measurements.
    The duration of time it took VA facilities to attain pre-go-live 
productivity levels is longer than the industry average of 3 months. 
This attainment of pre-go-live facility level funding can be measured 
using Patient Weighted Work (PWW), which is a method used to adjust and 
measure the workload or complexity of patient care based on specific 
patient characteristics and needs.
    Emergency Department (ED) measures are an area that, in many cases, 
are exceeding pre-implementation productivity levels due to the 
efficiencies the new EHR has provided ED staff, even with patient 
volume exceeding pre-implementation levels at all sites. Launch-point, 
a streamlined ED tracking board designed to enhance departmental 
workflows by offering real-time access to veterans' records and 
critical information, has significantly reduced Door-to-Doctor (D2D) 
and total length of stay (LOS) and providers' productivity has 
increased by 25-30 percent. The ED volume by site as of December 2024 
compared to the baseline was:

      Mann-Grandstaff: Baseline of 1218 and 1,632 in December 
2024

      Roseburg: 642 baseline, compared with 845 in December 
2024

      Columbus: 1,014 baseline compared with 1,576 in December 
2024

      Lovell FHCC: 1,499 baseline compared to 2,586 in December 
2024

    Addressing the following items, many of which are covered in the 
Big Rocks projects, will enhance the return to productivity following 
the implementation of the new EHR system:

    1. Referral Management: The decreases in productivity are due to 
several factors including insufficient staffing levels and backlogs 
that preceded the go-lives. In addition, the referral process is not 
standardized across the program and leads to differing requirements 
from site to site and poor adoption of the standardized Oracle system.

    2. Scheduling/National Baseline: Schedules are controlled during 
go-lives to allow additional time for end users to adopt the system. To 
return to baseline, the leadership must decide to increase the case 
load to pre-implementation levels once the facility has adjusted to the 
new EHR. There should be alignment at a national level of what 
measurements will be assessed for return to baseline and pre-go-live 
baseline must be measured in a consistent manner across facilities. 
Return to baseline targets and timelines should be communicated at a 
departmental level and sites should be held accountable at an 
individual level. Resources are available to provide additional support 
and training to users not meeting expected productivity levels.

    3. Addressing Organizational Culture and Leadership Engagement: 
Site leadership engagement varies from site to site and the lack of 
strong leadership present and advocating for the program often reflects 
lower adoption and productivity. Sites have reduced schedules during 
go-live and no organizational directives are established for when 
departments are expected to increase patient visits. Oracle recommends 
enhancing training and support by increasing super user involvement--
highly trained individuals who act as subject matter experts (SMEs) and 
system champions--during go-lives. This approach ensures hands-on 
guidance and knowledge transfer, rather than relying solely on schedule 
reductions with no defined timeline for returning to full capacity.

    4. User Adoption and Education: Sites must not go live unless 
recommended training percentiles are reached, and there needs to be 
sufficient support staff through go-live and into sustainment to ensure 
end users receive ongoing coaching.

    5. Ensure Standard Operating Procedures: VA should ensure local 
policies are aligned with national policies prior to implementation. 
Examples of areas that have been historically impacted include Rapid 
Response, Patient Movement, and Staff Scheduling. Another example, 
Medication History and Reconciliation is a task that was not completed 
by nurses in the legacy system. In Oracle, the recommendation is for 
nurses to complete this task on or before the encounter so that 
providers can complete their assessments in a timely manner.

    6. Optimize Solutions: Several solutions can be utilized to 
optimize the EHR for the unique needs of the VA. ``Big Rock'' projects 
are an example of how VA has continued optimization of national 
standards to gain efficiency and improve productivity in areas 
including Quick Orders, Message Center and Referral Management.

Interoperability:

    A key component of the EHRM program is improving interoperability 
to ensure seamless care coordination across VA, DoD, and community care 
networks. EHRM's interoperability advancements, such as the Joint 
Health Information Exchange (JHIE) and Seamless Exchange, enable 
automated, real-time data sharing, ensuring clinicians have immediate 
access to comprehensive patient histories and that service members have 
access to their complete records.
    The JHIE is a secure network that shares health information. With 
the JHIE, all health providers--whether at a DoD Military Treatment 
Facility or from the TRICARE network--can securely access beneficiary 
records and health information electronically.
    When the EHRM program was envisioned, the focus was making sure 
service members have a seamless record when transitioning to care at 
VA. The use of the same system at DoD (where they call it MHS Genesis) 
and VA (where they use the Cerner commercial name of Millennium) 
ensures that the record is seamless.
    Of course, with VistA having 130 different instances across the VA 
healthcare system, interoperability just within VA is a challenge. EHRM 
eliminates this problem by using one standard EHR across the entire VA 
system, ensuring that no matter which VAMC a veteran uses across the 
country, the veteran's record will be available - and the veteran 
should receive the same standard and quality of care.
    Since the inception of the EHRM program, interoperability with 
commercial care providers for veterans has become critically important. 
The VA MISSION Act enables veterans to receive care in their 
communities if VA wait times are too long. When veterans go to the 
community for care, their medical record needs to go with them and come 
back to VA. The EHRM program ensures this is the case, as the Oracle 
EHR is interoperable with 90 percent of community care providers.
    Seamless Exchange, the use of which is being expanded with Code 
Block 12, is a collection of record retrieval and reconciliation 
services that collects external health data, compares it to a patient's 
chart, and reconciles it for provider review. This allows a provider to 
have complete and current data in their workflow for care decisions. 
Seamless Exchange will reduce the amount of reconciliation clinicians 
need to manually complete to do chart reviews. The addition of all 
Seamless Exchange capabilities will help the VA realize additional time 
savings in chart review.
    Finally, Oracle is offering VA access to its future Qualified 
Health Information Network (QHIN) under the federal Trusted Exchange 
Framework and Common Agreement (TEFCA) at no additional cost, building 
on these successes to provide a secure and innovative approach to 
health data exchange and other potential data such as coverage and 
benefits information. This will allow every health system across the 
nation to share patient data with the VA, safely and securely.

User Satisfaction:

    After each major code block update (twice a year in Feb. and Aug.), 
user satisfaction is measured. VA conducts these surveys, which are 
voluntary, and employees self-select into completing. Given that 
deployments have been halted since 2022 (other than Lovell FHCC), the 
user-base for surveys has not expanded beyond users at the initial five 
sites where dissatisfaction from initial missteps runs high. Despite 
these methodological limitations, the usability work and code updates 
that have been implemented have shown that clinician and staff 
satisfaction with the Federal EHR has increased each year since 2022--
including increases in agreement in employee surveys with the phrases 
``the EHR is available when I need it'' and ``this EHR enables me to 
deliver high-quality care.'' Oracle strongly believes that providing 
our Clinical AI Agent and the many updates made during the Reset, as 
well as completing the pharmacy enhancements, will continue to allow 
for user satisfaction to improve.

Code Block 12 Upgrade:

    On Feb. 21-23, 2025, the Code Block 12 upgrade will be implemented 
for the EHR system. The Code Block 12 upgrade includes significant 
improvements for the EHR system, including:

      Pharmacy 3b/3c: See below section on Pharmacy.

      Seamless Exchange: Oracle Health Seamless Exchange 
aggregates external health data from multiple sources--such as national 
and local exchanges--and deduplicates redundant information to create a 
cleansed, comprehensive patient history. Seamless Exchange has been 
piloted at the LaGrande clinic and is now being expanded to all ten 
Walla Walla connected sites.

      HealthShare Referral Manager (HSRM) via OPENLink 
IntegrationPlatform (OIP): Rearchitect the current Millennium to HSRM 
interface under a new cloud-based platform with key workflow, dataflow, 
and process improvements, eliminating the manual workflow steps and 
provide the clinicians with access to the data required to complete the 
Referral steps in an efficient manner.

      Image Viewer - Radiology: Image Viewer offers clinicians 
the ability to view Digital Imaging and Communications in Medicine 
(DICOM) images when configured with the Millennium Platform data base 
to provide referential viewing. Users can also access the web-based 
viewer when integrated with other application in CareAware Multimedia 
Study Management, to provide referential viewing from various 
workflows. This will be replacing SkyVue Distribution Viewer.

      Financial Management Systems v8: This is a General Ledger 
Accounting System, and the enhancement allows for First Party MCCF 
Refunds to be issued to Veterans from any Millennium site.

      LifeImage v1: ``Gatekeeper'' users can electronically 
receive and send DICOM image studies from Community Providers/Systems, 
eliminating the need to use CDs to receive or share images.

      Managerial Cost Accounting v2: MCA is responsible for ALL 
the cost accounting at FHCC for both DoD and VA. Oracle currently 
provides MCA with data extracts on the VA side to support workload 
capture, budgeting, various reporting requirements, congressional 
inquiries, etc. For FHCC, additional DoD extracts are needed to provide 
MCA with DoD data.

      Medtronic PaceArt v1: PaceArt is a workflow solution that 
compiles and manages patient's cardiac device data. The system 
collects, stores, and retrieves data from programmers and remote 
monitoring systems from cardiac device manufacturers. PaceArt captures 
data from implant, in-clinic checks, and remote transmissions, 
patient's data is generated and, it can be stored in the PaceArt data 
base to be sent to EHR.

      Medtronic PillCam v1: Medtronic PillCam gives the ability 
for clinicians to perform capsule endoscopy and with this integration, 
send results into Millennium.

      Mental Health Suite (MHS) v2: MHS is used for creating, 
editing, renewing patient intakes and treatment plans, and enabling 
care teams to collaborate to ensure provider compliance with regulatory 
guidelines. The MHS software was designed for psychiatrists, 
psychologists, social workers, and anyone involved in the creation of 
treatment plans for mental health patients.

      Siemens Syngo v2: The functionality will provide the 
ability for echocardiograms to be interpreted by a cardiologist at a 
second EHRM VAMC, after the Echo is ordered, performed, and documented 
at an initial EHRM VAMC site.

Pharmacy:

    Overall, pharmacy operations in the six sites are stable. While we 
recognize pharmacy staffing has increased, we are hopeful that the new 
enhancements that have been provided in the recent Code Block release 
will enable VA pharmacists to operate more productively going-forward. 
The process in the new EHR for pharmacy is different than in VistA, but 
it also provides patient safety features that VistA does not have, 
which may take additional end user time but improves the standard of 
care and safety for veterans. As an example, Medication Management 
Retail (MMR - the outpatient pharmacy application) displays the 
veteran's lab values within the clinical workflow of the pharmacist 
allowing streamlined decision-making around medication dosing.
    Seven million prescriptions have been filled using the new EHR at 
the first five live sites from the VA Consolidated Mail Outpatient 
Pharmacy since October 2020. This is in line with prescription fill 
volumes under VistA.
    At the Lovell FHCC, pharmacy adoption is going well too. Barcode 
scanning (BCMA) for the month of Jan. 2025 at Lovell FHCC was 98.56 
percent. This is better than the overall VA average of 97.7 percent and 
supports higher patient safety, such as the Opioid Advisor Tool. Dual 
beneficiary patients (those with both DoD and VA benefits) are all in 
one system now for pharmacy. All prescriptions are on one medication 
list regardless of whether VA or DoD is filling them. This provides 
patient safety and efficiency benefits. Finally, Lovell FHCC is 
continuing to use the conversion to the new Federal EHR to drive 
electronic prescribing. In the last 30 days, 99.8 percent of 
prescriptions have been authored electronically.
    Reflecting back to the original deployment in Spokane, at that time 
VA and Cerner had not adequately accounted for the unique ways that VA 
operates its pharmacy. In choosing a commercial off-the-shelf EHR, 
there should have been a recognition that the commercial market (and 
even other government customers) does not operate their pharmacies the 
same way as VA and adjustments should have been made earlier.
    A typical Oracle Millennium commercial EHR system contains 
functionality that enables the ordering of a prescription by the 
provider (ordering party); the receiving pharmacy then utilizes its own 
software for the dispensing of the medication (dispensing party). Our 
original contract with VA for its EHRM program included these standard 
capabilities.
    However, after the Spokane and later deployments, it became 
apparent that the baseline Millennium pharmacy capabilities originally 
contracted needed to be enhanced to encompass the level of tight 
integration required to meet VA's outpatient pharmacy needs because in 
the VA healthcare system, VA is both the ordering party and the 
dispensing party.
    By the time of Oracle's acquisition of Cerner in June 2022, 
frustrations with the pharmacy module of the EHR were very high. In 
fact, it was the top concern we heard about in meeting after meeting, 
both with VA and with Members of Congress. By August 30, 2022, VA had 
put on Task Order the work necessary to customize the pharmacy module 
to fit VA's unique needs. Seven key enhancements were contracted for, 
and there was a three-year timeline for delivery. Oracle delivered the 
first six and a half enhancements in a year and a half by Feb. 2024. 
The last enhancement, which is 3b/3c, took longer due to changing 
requirements from VA, but is still being delivered in Feb. 2025, 
earlier than three years.
    The 3b enhancement going in Code Block 12 over Feb. 21-23, 2025, is 
an update that will enable VA pharmacists to modify a prescription and 
have those edits return to the provider-facing application in the EHR. 
Those edits will then flow through subsequent renewals of the 
particular prescription. This requirement is unique to VA, and the 3b/
3c enhancement should enable pharmacists to work more productively. We 
will of course work with VA to monitor the impact of 3b/3c to see if 
any further action is necessary for pharmacy going-forward, but 
delivery and implementation of 3b/3c completes the seven enhancements 
that Oracle has provided to VA for the pharmacy module of the EHR.
    Appendix A provides a summary of the first six enhancements and 
other pharmacy updates that have been made, as well as various safety 
features.

Training, Adoption and Support Services:

    After our acquisition of Cerner in June 2022, it was made clear to 
us that the training conducted for Spokane, and even later deployments, 
was insufficient. Of course, with the deployment in Spokane, the 
training challenges were compounded by deploying during the pandemic 
and the associated stresses placed on healthcare providers at that 
time.
    Oracle invested significant resources in improving the training 
program for new users as well as providing continued training for 
existing users on the overall system and updates to it. With better 
trained users, tickets and the need for support services generally 
decrease.
    At the live sites, we have conducted various onsite education and 
optimization activities to help end users adopt existing workflows and 
identify and execute configuration and workflow improvement 
opportunities. In addition to observing how end users interact with the 
new EHR and resolving their high-priority issues, we proactively 
identify end users with poor performance experiences and collaborate 
with VA to resolve these issues, including issues that are the 
responsibility of VA.
    In the last six months we have held over 2,000 training classes for 
end users at the live sites. Specifically, we have conducted training 
for Oncology and Long-Acting Injections at VISN 20 sites to improve end 
user workflow adoption and experience. At White City and Mann-
Grandstaff, we worked with VA to identify and implement optimization 
opportunities and educate users on workflows for Optometry. At Jonathan 
M. Wainwright and Columbus, we executed similar projects for Audiology.
    Oracle also utilizes workflow data to identify end users needing 
additional training. Once identified, we send our staff onsite to 
partner with the end users, assisting them in streamlining their 
workflows, thereby reducing time spent in veteran charts and increasing 
the time available to spend with veterans.
    For provisioning tickets to give end users access to the system or 
to specific roles, we have worked with VA to improve processes. In Jan. 
2025, we successfully met the VA's target dates on 98 percent of the 
provisioning tickets logged. Performance improvements have been 
achieved with the transition to the Microsoft Edge platform, resulting 
in a 51 percent reduction in full-page load time for Community Care 
Coordination workflows.
    Training for the deployment at the Lovell FHCC included new end 
user adoption activities (e.g., Departmental Workflow Readiness 
sessions and Learning Labs). These activities reinforced formal 
training and provided participants with an opportunity to practice 
their workflows through simulated scenarios in the VA Sandbox.
    Learning Labs were created to bring together end users, with 
support from super users (who are highly experienced users), provider 
champions and informaticists to develop a comprehensive understanding 
of selected respective service line workflows as a cohesive care team. 
They were first piloted at Lovell FHCC in December 2023 for a small 
group of 54 super users. Post event survey data showed that more than 
ninety percent (92.1 percent) of respondents reported at least moderate 
improvement in their preparation for go-live, with nearly two thirds 
(65.8 percent) reporting great or exceptional improvement.
    Based on the overwhelmingly positive feedback, the site and VA 
asked to partner with Oracle to expand the use of Learning Labs for end 
users prior to go-live. In close partnership with VA, we quickly stood 
up an additional 55 sessions for more than 200 end users. Because of 
the feedback from end users at Lovell FHCC, Learning Labs will be a key 
activity to help future sites prepare to adopt the new system.
    More than 70 supplemental training materials were provided to end 
users prior to go-live to reinforce important training topics. In 
addition to the new end user adoption activities for Lovell FHCC, 
Oracle also made 36 early access computer-based training programs 
available to super users to support their work and provided 
supplementary surge training to dual hat users, pharmacists, and 
pharmacy technicians just before go-live. Weeklong sessions were 
conducted in November 2023 with the entire pharmacy operations staff, 
working through various situations and workflows. Also, knowledge 
transfer series led by pharmacists were held. Overall, Lovell FHCC 
pharmacy staff provided a 9.82 out of 10 rating for the workflow 
adoption training sessions they received.

Lovell FHCC:

    The Lovell FHCC deployment is the first and only deployment that 
has taken place under Oracle's ownership of Cerner. The previous five 
sites that were deployed, were completed by Cerner. Oracle strongly 
believes that the work done since the acquisition to improve technical 
performance of the system, improve training, and work with VA to 
simplify and standardize workflows and make other improvements enables 
to us confirm, now that we are nearly one year after the March 2024 
deployment, that it was successful.
    The system at Lovell FHCC has been well-received by users, enabling 
them to provide excellent care to veterans, active-duty military, and 
their dependents. Compared to the original five live sites, 
improvements in change management, training, and communications led to 
notably higher adoption rates at Lovell FHCC. Oracle provided 
significant in-person, onsite support for users and worked with Lovell 
FHCC on specific areas where their workflows needed to be modified to 
adapt to the new standard provided in the EHR.
    In many cases, productivity at Lovell FHCC has returned to patient 
volumes prior to the deployment. For example, providers are averaging 
less than 21 minutes in the EHR, and nurses just under 4 minutes per 
patient seen. In the Emergency Department, the pre-deployment baseline 
monthly average of patients seen was 1,499, and the current monthly 
average volume is far exceeding that at 2,856 patients. Similarly, the 
Surgery Department is operating at 110 percent of baseline under the 
new EHR.
    The complexity of medical care at Lovell FHCC stems from its 
comprehensive range of integrated services, making it a strong 
predictor of success for larger VAMCs seeking to enhance care 
coordination. Lovell FHCC offers a full spectrum of services, including 
primary care, specialty care, behavioral health, surgical services, 
rehabilitation, and long-term care, mirroring the broad scope of care 
required at larger VAMCs. Key aspects that contribute to its complexity 
and scalability include:

      Integrated Military and Veteran Care: Lovell FHCC serves 
both active-duty military and veterans, requiring seamless coordination 
between DoD and VA systems, a challenge also present in large VAMCs 
with complex patient populations.

      Multidisciplinary Specialty Services: Offering 
cardiology, orthopedics, neurology, and mental health care in one 
facility allows for efficient referrals and comprehensive treatment 
planning, a model that can be scaled for larger VAMCs.

      Advanced Surgical and Rehabilitation Services: Lovell 
FHCC provides both inpatient and outpatient surgical services, along 
with post-operative rehabilitation, ensuring continuity of care, an 
essential feature for larger VA health systems.

      Behavioral Health & Substance Use Treatment: The 
integration of mental health services, PTSD treatment, and substance 
use programs aligns with the needs of high-risk veteran populations in 
large VA hospitals.

    The success of these multifaceted services at Lovell FHCC 
demonstrates that with adequate resources, technology integration, and 
strong care coordination, similar models can be scaled to larger VAMCs 
to improve efficiency, patient outcomes, and overall healthcare 
delivery.

Patient Safety:

    Patient safety is the top priority for Oracle and VA in the 
deployment of the new EHR. The EHRM program represents a transformation 
in veteran healthcare delivery, aimed at improving care coordination, 
reducing medical errors, and ensuring seamless interoperability between 
VA, DoD, and community partners.
    However, we recognize that concerns have been raised regarding 
patient safety, from oversight bodies such as the Inspector General and 
the Government Accountability Office (GAO), as well as anecdotal claims 
of patient harm. Items such as the Unknown Queue \2\ have left the 
misimpression that the Oracle EHR cannot be safely used at VA, even 
though it is safely used at DoD and at commercial facilities across the 
United States and worldwide.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ Shortly after our acquisition of Cerner in June 2022, we were 
made aware by media reports and a leaked Inspector General report of a 
patient safety concern with the operation of the Unknown Queue (UQ). 
Despite its unfortunate name, the UQ was not a bug, it was a backstop 
to account for patient scheduling tasks to facilities or providers that 
were not recognized by the system or entered incorrectly by the 
provider. These scheduling tasks were not lost, rather they were routed 
for manual review and processing, but employees were not trained to 
monitor it.
      By the time of this reporting on the UQ, the awareness and 
training issues had been addressed and minimal numbers of orders were 
entering the UQ. However, as the new owner we wanted to make certain 
that we brought our technical and engineering expertise to the issue to 
further reduce the chances of a provider entering an order incorrectly. 
On August 1, 2022, we delivered to VA updates that alert a provider 
when an order they entered could not be scheduled and requires 
correction as well as a similar message to the provider in their 
notification center. These alerts continue until the order is corrected 
by the provider. These updates were provided by us at no cost to VA. 
For the past two years, on average, only one scheduling task per site 
per day is routed to the UQ, and it is not an issue of any continuing 
concern.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In fact, the Oracle EHR is being used safely at VA too, and Oracle 
continues its ongoing work to strengthen safety efforts, demonstrating 
that the new EHR is not only safe but also continuously improving and 
ready for nationwide deployment. The deployment at Lovell FHCC was 
conducted with no patient safety incidents. In the time since Oracle's 
acquisition of Cerner in June 2022, there has been an 80 percent 
decrease in tickets reported as a safety concern by end users.
    EHR safety is not a static goal--it requires continuous refinement 
based on real-world clinician feedback, safety audits, and system 
performance data. Oracle and VA have built a dedicated patient safety 
infrastructure to rapidly identify, investigate, and resolve potential 
issues. A key component of this approach is the Oracle Health VA 
Patient Safety Team, which serves as the subject matter expert body for 
patient safety. This team works closely with VA leadership, site-level 
clinical teams, and national safety organizations to proactively assess 
and mitigate risks.

    Key safety initiatives include:

      Real-time monitoring and response: A bi-directional data 
feed between VA's ServiceNow (SNOW) and Oracle Health's Remedy system 
ensures real-time tracking of patient safety tickets.

      National safety governance: A structured patient safety 
management model ensures stakeholder alignment across clinical, 
operational, and financial domains to measure and mitigate risks.

      Independent safety audits: As a demonstration of our 
commitment to patient safety, Oracle commissioned a 3rd party to 
conduct a risk assessment across high-impact clinical workflows 
(oncology, emergency medicine, and perioperative care), identifying 74 
risk areas--39 of which required configuration updates, 16 code 
enhancements, and 19 governance policy changes.

      Patient Safety Checkpoints: Oracle developed a structured 
program that integrates the patient safety team into the Change Control 
process to provide additional support to the government as they 
adjudicate and approve the proposed changes. This initiative aims to 
proactively assess and mitigate risks associated with proposed changes 
in the system before they are acted on, ultimately ensuring the highest 
standards of patient safety for the new EHR. Risks are assessed by 
utilizing a library a curated patient safety controls, resulting in a 
detailed analysis of identified risks and recommendations for the 
selected change request.

    The Oracle Health VA Patient Safety Team operates a Go-Live Patient 
Safety Command Center, which runs 24/7 during deployments to oversee 
and coordinate safety reporting and resolution in real time.

      During each deployment, a dedicated Patient Safety 
Manager is onsite, working alongside VA leadership and Oracle staff to 
oversee patient safety risks.

      National governance structures codified in VA Task Orders 
ensure increased coordination between Oracle, VA safety agencies (NCPS, 
IPS, VISN), and frontline clinical staff.

    The new EHR has enhanced patient safety measures compared to VistA. 
Key improvements include the implementation of medication safety 
protocols and closed-loop medication documentation, which ensure 
accurate medication administration. The implementation of bedside 
barcode scanning has enhanced verification processes by allowing 
clinicians to confirm patient identities and medication accuracy at the 
point of care, thereby reducing the risk of errors. Furthermore, the 
full deployment of automated medication dispensing cabinets streamlines 
medication management, providing secure and efficient access to 
medications while minimizing the potential for dispensing mistakes. 
Together, these advancements create a safer environment for patient 
care and improve overall treatment outcomes.
    While early implementation challenges were identified, the system 
has evolved and improved rapidly. These improvements, supported by 
measurable reductions in safety risks, enhanced governance, and 
accelerated issue resolution, demonstrate that the new EHR is not only 
safe but also positioned for successful national rollout.

Patient Behavioral Health Flags:

    The new EHR contains Patient Behavioral Health Flags that assist in 
making providers aware of risks like suicide for veteran patients. In 
Feb. 2023, Patient Behavioral Health Flags were updated to be included 
in the Radiology and Lab components of the EHR. Flags were updated 
again in August 2023 to extend their visibility across all users, 
including schedulers using the registration function of the EHR. This 
addition ensured behavior health flags are visible both upon 
registration and between encounters to enhance coordination across a 
veteran's entire care team. In 2024 they were extended even further in 
the EHR to Pharmacy. Oracle Health continues to partner with the VA to 
evaluate opportunities to improve identification and management of 
Category 1 Patient Record Flags to enhance end user experience and 
veteran safety.

Opportunities Going Forward

    Oracle is committed to continual quality improvement and there are 
opportunities for enhancement that we continue to partner with the VA 
to address, but we do not believe any of these challenges should stand 
in the way of proceeding with the four deployments in Michigan and 
further accelerating deployments. The EHR system is in a vastly 
different, improved place from the system of two to three years ago. 
Due to the amount of time it takes from beginning pre-deployment work 
to the actual go-live, we have the remainder of this year to continue 
improving the system while VA makes needed operational changes.

Cybersecurity and Moving to the Cloud:

    We believe there is wide recognition for the need to better secure 
our veterans' healthcare data. The Government Accountability Office 
(GAO) has repeatedly flagged VistA's decentralized architecture as 
outdated and increasingly vulnerable to security threats. Transitioning 
to a modern, cloud-based EHR will strengthen data protection, system 
resilience, and overall cybersecurity posture, ensuring the integrity 
of veterans' health information in an evolving threat landscape.
    Within the U.S. Government federal space, Oracle holds a number of 
DOD security accreditations and FedRAMP authorizations, and we are an 
approved vendor under the Intelligence Community's Commercial Cloud 
Enterprise (C2E) program and the DoD's Joint Warfighting Cloud 
Capability (JWCC) program.
    Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) was built with its foundation in 
scalability and security, which is fully integrated with features such 
as bastions for zero trust access, security zones for compartmentalized 
workloads and integration of security across the Infrastructure, Data 
base and Application Layers.
    Moving the Federal Enclave to OCI is underway. The first phase will 
be complete later this year, after which we will be able to start 
integrating new features into Millennium for VA. One feature we expect 
to integrate quickly is our Clinical AI Agent that reduces the need for 
providers to spend time in the EHR and enables greater patient 
engagement.
    We anticipate the full migration of the EHR to the cloud to be 
complete next year. Oracle has committed to making this move to OCI at 
our expense.
    Hosting the EHR on OCI will not only accelerate our ability to 
increase capacity as we scale the number of deployments, but also 
enable greater stability and reliability as the number of EHR users 
grows.

Big Rocks:

    As mentioned above, Oracle made several recommendations to VA 
through the course of the Reset, including for how VA can: (1) 
institute stronger governance controls through clearer escalation paths 
for program decisions, such as those requiring cross-council consensus; 
(2) enhance change control processes through closed loop communications 
with end users and enforcement to standards; (3) standardize workflows 
and healthcare protocols, such as referral management, workload 
capture, and mammography; (4) improve system performance and 
operations; (5) optimize end user engagement and communications; and 
(6) advance workflow adoption and optimization.
    Akin to our recommendations, VA stood up ten workstreams during the 
reset period and onboarded several ``Big Rock'' projects, which are 
specific initiatives aimed at improving the user experience, 
efficiency, and outcomes. VA's efforts toward standardization, 
establishing an effective configuration process, and creating playbooks 
to ensure alignment to model workflows will help VA create one standard 
of care across its healthcare enterprise and enable VA to provide 
quicker answers when deviations from the standard EHR are requested. 
Further, several of VA's ``big rock'' projects, such as position 
standardization (i.e., ensuring every healthcare worker with the same 
job title and responsibilities uses the EHR system in the same way), 
referral management, and ad hoc folders (i.e., organizing documentation 
that captures patient information in a standardized way), demonstrate a 
commitment to achieving standardization across the VA healthcare 
system.
    Finishing the Big Rock projects is critical to the ability to 
accelerate deployments.

Oracle Recommendations for VA:

    To accelerate deployments and set up the EHRM program for success, 
Oracle has made the following recommendations to VA:

    1. Adopt a National Standard: Leverage known configurations that 
are working well at DoD and the six live facilities to implement a 
single, national EHR standard across all VA facilities. Standardizing 
workflows will not only ensure veterans receive consistent, high-
quality care regardless of location but also reduce costs associated 
with bespoke configurations at each VAMC. Additionally, a national 
standard will streamline implementation efforts, improving deployment 
velocity and accelerating the modernization timeline.

    2. Advance Optimizations and Limit Third-Party Integrations: VA 
should expedite execution of known optimization opportunities (e.g., 
workload credit, service connected / special authority compliance 
changes) alongside deployment activity to improve system usability. 
Further, VA should reduce reliance on third-party integrations to 
simplify workflows, decrease costs and limit cybersecurity exposures.

    3. Unlock Innovation and Scale by Migrating to the Cloud: 
Transition from the on-premises systems to Oracle Cloud Infrastructure 
(OCI) to enhance cybersecurity and system resilience. This will allow 
for faster implementations and ability to adopt modern technology today 
and in the future.

        a. Migration to the cloud is underway. With timely cooperation 
        from VA and DoD for both infrastructure needs and necessary 
        government approvals, migration of the Core EHR could be 
        completed by 2026. This requires alignment to a predictable and 
        streamlined cybersecurity review for SaaS and cloud-based 
        technologies across VA and DOD to be quickly established.

    4. Adopt Modern Technologies. Oracle Health is poised to deliver 
several new technologies to the VA in 2025, including our Qualified 
Health Information Network (QHIN), Clinical AI Agent (CAA), Health Data 
Intelligence (HDI) Companion App, and Patient Portal. As these 
solutions are EHR-agnostic, VA can deploy them across the enterprise 
now, even before completing the transition from VistA to the Federal 
EHR. This strategic approach will enable VA to immediately benefit from 
enhanced interoperability, advanced clinical decision support, and 
improved patient engagement--accelerating modernization efforts without 
waiting for the full EHR conversion. This will help all providers and 
patients benefit from new modern technology. We believe this will also 
help with adoption of the new EHR as providers working in facilities 
slated for a later deployment will start to understand how the new 
technology will assist them.

    5. Accelerate Federal EHR Deployments: Based on the current plan 
and pace of deploying to four new facilities in VA's Fiscal Year 2026, 
full deployment would take over 40 years. Instead, VA should build on 
the success of the Lovell FHCC deployment and the optimization work 
done during Reset to accelerate the deployment plan. Current State 
Reviews (CSRs) should begin for additional sites so that after the 
Michigan deployments there is not a time lag before the next 
deployments can begin. In addition, VA should use a Veterans Integrated 
Service Networks (VISN)-based deployment approach to scale, optimize 
resource allocation, and ensure facilities within a network adopt a 
common standard simultaneously.

    6. Streamline VA Contracting: To address specific needs or 
objectives with VA, task orders are awarded to Oracle Health under the 
VA EHRM IDIQ contract with defined scope, deliverables and timelines 
for a particular service or project(s) to be delivered. To streamline 
management and improve efficiency, VA should consolidate the 
approximately 35 active task orders. By merging overlapping tasks, 
centralizing oversight, and standardizing reporting, the program can 
reduce administrative burden and eliminate redundancies. Ultimately, 
this will lead to cost savings, increased accountability, and a more 
efficient path forward for the EHRM initiative.

Referrals:

    One of the Big Rocks is Referral Management:

      As part of the Big Rocks project, Oracle implemented 
updates to the referral system including a new custom referral form, 
functionality to enable sites to send one referral for multiple 
diagnoses, added audit history and added functionality so all open and 
archived referrals are shown in one comprehensive view.

      These enhancements address VA's top requests and were 
provided at no cost to the VA, including features like internal closed-
loop referrals.

Deployment Schedule:

    The EHRM program has not had a proper deployment schedule since 
before the Reset. Oracle is encouraged that VA is working with us to 
prepare an integrated master schedule so that we all are working toward 
the same goals and timeline.

Innovation and Modernization for the EHRM Program

    While VA purchased the Cerner EHR, Oracle has made significant 
investments in developing modern health care applications that are 
available in OCI. Oracle's strategic investments in our product 
offerings are closely tied to OCI. Many of our new products and product 
features that we have brought to market, beginning in 2024 and all the 
way through 2027, leverage OCI's capabilities. These advances help to 
address areas that have proven difficult in the VA adoption of the new 
EHR.
    By migrating to OCI, VA can access these new state-of-the-art EHR 
features, healthcare-specific solutions, advanced analytics, and 
interoperability tools that are optimized for this cloud ecosystem. 
Importantly, the VA does not need to be fully migrated to OCI to start 
benefiting from these innovations--taking the initial step toward OCI 
unlocks access to these capabilities, including:

      Clinical Artificial Intelligence Agent (CAA) described 
above.

      Oracle EHR: Oracle is rolling out its new state-of-the-
art, modernized EHR in an iterative fashion, starting with a fully 
featured Ambulatory EHR, with subsequent releases for specific 
specialties and inpatient care. This will be introduced to our 
commercial clients this year. The new EHR is designed to embed AI 
across the entire clinical workflow to automate processes, deliver 
insights at the point of care, and dramatically simplify appointment 
prep, documentation, and follow up for physicians and staff. With 
native integrations across a broad range of Oracle applications, the 
EHR is also designed to help streamline information exchange between 
payers and providers, support patient recruitment for clinical trials, 
simplify regulatory compliance, and optimize financial performance.

      Patient Administration System (PAS): PAS is focused on 
improving the efficiency and effectiveness of patient management tasks, 
including registration, scheduling, billing, and overall patient flow.

      Patient Portal: The Patient Portal is a digital platform 
designed to enhance patient engagement by providing individuals with 
secure, easy access to their complete longitudinal health record from 
their time in service, at the VA and in the community; and 
communication tools with their healthcare providers.

      Health Data Intelligence Platform (HDIP): The HDIP is a 
comprehensive solution designed to aggregate, analyze, and derive 
actionable insights from health data. This platform integrates data 
from various sources across the healthcare continuum, including the 
EHR, clinical systems, and third-party data providers. HDIP is 
currently available at the six live facilities and can be integrated 
with VistA, which would help VA close care gaps by proactively 
identifying missed interventions, enabling timely clinical actions, and 
supporting better health outcomes for veterans.

      Oracle's Qualified Health Information Network (QHIN) 
described above.

    By utilizing a commercial off-the-shelf product, VA has access to 
the latest technology, Oracle Health is delivering tangible cost 
savings while ensuring VA has the tools needed for a more effective, 
efficient, and resilient healthcare system for veterans.

Closing

    We believe that when the totality of updates, enhancements and 
innovations are considered, the EHR system must be viewed as a 
drastically improved system from the system that was originally 
deployed in Spokane in 2020.
    Oracle is proud to continue working with VA to modernize its EHR 
system, and we are confident that the EHRM program is ready to deploy 
in Michigan and on an accelerated schedule for additional deployments.
    We are steadfast in our mission to serve our nation's veterans 
through this project. Thank you and I look forward to answering your 
questions.

Appendix A - Pharmacy

Summary of the first six enhancements:

Enhancement 1: Toggle Prescription Synonym Visibility

      Implemented Feb. 2023

      This guides providers to order prescription/supplies 
based on what is formulary and fillable through the VA/Consolidated 
Mail Outpatient Pharmacy (CMOP). The intent is to reduce re-work 
efforts by Pharmacist/Provider to adjust prescriptions after the 
initial order entry.

      Shortened the amount of prescriptions a provider sees by 
almost 50 percent.

Enhancement 2: Optional Order Stop Date in Retail Med Manager

      Implemented Feb. 2023

      Keep ongoing medications for a patient on the active 
medication list so providers and pharmacists continue to have better 
visibility to the medications even when a new prescription is needed.

      Maintenance prescriptions will no longer change to a 
completed status once the legal date has been met. They must now be 
manually completed/ discontinued.

Enhancement 3a: Display Legal Rx Expiration Date in Orders

      Implemented Feb. 2023

      Prescription Legal Expiration date will now display face 
up to users in PowerChart. Prescriptions with 0 (zero) refills 
remaining and expiration dates that have passed will display in red 
text and will no longer be refillable regardless of refills remaining 
but may be considered for renewal.

      Visibility for providers when a prescription is no longer 
fillable (past legal expiration date), to help identify when a new 
prescription is needed.

      This enhancement will add the prescription Legal 
Expiration date to the Home Medications component and Orders profile to 
display within the home medications, the patient's medication list and 
Message Center.

Enhancement 4: Support mCDS Discontinue in Retail Med Manager

      Implemented Aug. 2023

      Reduce the step/clicks for pharmacy staff to discontinue 
duplicate prescriptions within the drug interaction checking alerts 
window.

Enhancement 5: Enable Orders Renewal Action on Retail Med Manager 
Prescriptions

      Implemented Feb. 2024

      This enhancement allows providers to easily renew and 
take other actions on outpatient pharmacy generated prescriptions for 
consistency with provider entered prescriptions.

Enhancement 6: Optional Pharmacist Verification for Pharmacy 
Technicians Refills

      Implemented Aug. 2023

      Increase Pharmacist efficiency (save Pharmacist time) by 
removing Pharmacist verification requirement.

    Enhancement 7: Request Refills from Power Chart to Outpatient 
Pharmacy

      Implemented Feb. 2024

      This enhancement allows providers to perform a ``right 
click'' refill action in Power Chart and transmit a refill to the 
pharmacy for processing.

    In the last two years, additional enhancements beyond these seven 
were made as follows:

Task Order 31: Three Drug Image

      This enhancement provides drug metadata (round, scored, 
color, drug ID, imprint) in outpatient pharmacy workflows so that a 
pharmacy user can accurately identify medications.

    Task Order 31: Mobile Inventory Scanning

      This enhancement helps monitor and control real-time 
inventory and reordering processes by assisting with inventory and 
reorder level updates through mobile scan-driven workflows during a 
single adjustment step.

Task Order 31: E-Rx Monitoring Filling

      This enhancement improves the E-Rx Monitor filter. 
Electronic prescriptions are processed from VA and non-VA providers in 
the E-Rx Monitor. Filtering the monitor allows for pharmacists to 
segregate their labor pool daily and have a pharmacist focus on 
singular aspects of workflow, for example community care prescriptions 
from a non-VA provider.

Task Order 31: Weekly Multum Release

      This enhancement increased the release cadence for Multum 
content to move from monthly releases to release weekly, allowing for 
increased delivery of drug content as it is updated.

    Also in Feb. 2023, an upgrade was included outside of the seven 
enhancements that quickened the search history for prescriptions in 
Medication Manager Retail (MMR). Pharmacists use this search history to 
research previously prescribed outpatient prescriptions and associated 
activity. This upgrade reduced the average time of 15.3 seconds for a 
search to 1 second, making it much easier for pharmacists to use.
    Finally, all of the currently live sites benefit from pharmacy 
safety features inherent in the Oracle pharmacy module, known as 
Medication Manager Retail (MMR), that are not present in VistA:

      In MMR, pharmacists can view VA and community care 
prescriptions together, in a single provider view.

      Pharmacists can see relevant clinical information and lab 
values within the pharmacy application during prescription processing. 
This capability informs proper prescription dosing without leaving the 
order to go to another screen, unlike VistA.

      The new EHR allows for improved communication between VA 
pharmacists and Consolidated Mail Outpatient Pharmacy (CMOP) 
pharmacists checking prescriptions. VistA does not have this capability 
which can lead to prescriptions being sent back to the local VAMC for 
clarification. This feature has been used nearly 34,000 times in fiscal 
year 2025, which saves time in the fulfillment of prescriptions because 
it reduces the chances of the CMOP canceling a prescription back to the 
local VA facility.

      The new EHR allows VA pharmacists to communicate 
electronically with community care providers when requesting 
prescription renewals. This is another net new capability, and it has 
been used by VA pharmacists more than 9,200 times in fiscal year 2025. 
This represents 9,200 phone calls not made to community care providers 
by VA pharmacists. This enhances continuity of veteran care with 
prescription medications and encourages prescriptions staying inside of 
VA even when authored via community care.

    Pharmacists and providers also benefit from the Opioid Advisor Tool 
in the new EHR, which includes enhanced decision support, including 
dose range checking alerts and the Opioid Advisor Tool. The Opioid 
Advisor Tool allows clinicians to simultaneously check data from 47 
state Prescription Drug Monitoring Programs (PDMP) and DoD facilities 
to prevent improper prescribing of controlled substances. Previously 
clinicians had to leave a patient's record and access PDMP data through 
each state's website with different passwords for each site. The Opioid 
Advisor tool has guided more than 4,360 modifications to opioid 
prescriptions since October 2020. In these instances, the provider made 
a different and beneficial clinical decision based on the information 
the system provides. This information includes previous overdose 
attempts and any history of suicidal ideation. This is a net new 
capability that supports safer care of veterans.
                                 ______
                                 

                    Prepared Statement of David Case

    Chairman Barrett, Ranking Member Budzinski, and Subcommittee 
members, thank you for the opportunity to discuss the independent 
oversight conducted by the Office of Inspector General (OIG) regarding 
the development and deployment of VA's new electronic health record 
(EHR) system. Since April 2020, the OIG has released 22 oversight 
reports on VA's rollout of the new EHR system that identified critical 
missteps and a lack of remediation for identified failings.\1\ Of the 
93 recommendations issued to date, 32 have not yet been fully 
implemented--with eight open for more than three years. Failure to 
satisfactorily complete the corrective actions associated with these 
recommendations can increase risks to patient safety and VA's ability 
to provide timely, high-caliber care at the new EHR sites. Fully 
addressing oversight recommendations could also help minimize 
considerable cost escalations and delays in the upcoming 
deployments.\2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ OIG reports may be found on the website at All Reports, with 
those related to just the new health record system filtered to this 
list of EHR reports.
    \2\ While the OIG follows up with VA on open recommendations every 
90 days, VA program officials can submit evidence of sustained progress 
or the completion of corrective actions at any time to facilitate 
closing recommendations.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The OIG recognizes the enormity and complexity of the work being 
carried out by the Electronic Health Record Modernization Integration 
Office (EHRM IO) and other VA entities to deploy the new EHR system for 
the millions of veterans receiving VA care. In addition, OIG staff have 
been engaging with VA personnel for more than five years at the main 
EHR deployment sites in Washington, Oregon, Ohio, Illinois, as well as 
other support locations, and have observed their unwavering commitment 
to prioritizing the care of patients while mitigating implementation 
challenges.
    The statement that follows emphasizes the need to not only 
implement recommendations but sustain change by fully addressing the 
underlying problems identified in OIG reports. While some of these 
reports reflect work from several years ago, they are still relevant 
given their unimplemented recommendations--reflecting deficiencies that 
have not been remedied during the nearly two-year-long reset pause and 
could affect future deployments. For example, an April 2020 report is 
highlighted to demonstrate that VA needs to do more work to ensure its 
facilities and leaders receive guidance and resources prior to going 
live to minimize impacts on VA provider and other personnel's 
productivity as well as veteran safety.\3\ The OIG remains concerned 
about the unimplemented recommendations from that April 2020 report 
related to ongoing development and deployment operations. Additionally, 
while some identified problems from OIG reports have been resolved by 
VA, there is the risk that similar or new issues could emerge as the 
system is deployed at much larger, more complex medical facilities. 
With four facilities in Michigan anticipated to receive the new EHR 
system next year, VA will still need to deploy it to over 100 other VA 
medical facilities with hundreds of thousands of users. As the recently 
concluded reset has led to new and updated system functionalities, 
leaders must be prepared to train and retrain staff on the system and 
swiftly manage any consequences from these updates that result in 
compromised patient care and safety.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ VA OIG, Review of Access to Care and Capabilities During VA's 
Transition to a New Electronic Health Record System at the Mann-
Grandstaff VA Medical Center in Spokane, Washington, April 27, 2020. 
This report focused on the EHR's initial capabilities and the potential 
impact on patients' access to cares.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Though far from exhaustive, this testimony highlights several OIG 
reports with unimplemented recommendations designed to enhance patient 
safety and the health care that veterans receive from providers using 
the new EHR. Remedying these issues, particularly in appointment 
scheduling and pharmacy operations, is foundational to ensuring that 
users accept the system and VA can deliver care safely and efficiently. 
It also stresses the need for VA to make certain that the system is 
stable and can handle future growth without the kind of outages and 
service degradations previously experienced. Finally, it spotlights 
long-term open recommendations regarding the lack of a master project 
schedule as well as undefined infrastructure and deployment costs.

THE OIG DETERMINED UNRESOLVED SCHEDULING PACKAGE PROBLEMS MAY 
NEGATIVELY AFFECT PATIENT EXPERIENCES AND FUTURE DEPLOYMENTS

    For many veteran patients, their first and often most frequent 
experience at a medical facility involves appointment scheduling. 
Ensuring a smooth experience with appointment scheduling is a great way 
for VHA to build trust with veterans, and giving its staff effective, 
modern scheduling software can facilitate a more efficient workforce. 
For those reasons, in 2021 and 2022, the OIG reported on difficulties 
that employees experienced when using the patient appointment 
scheduling package at the Mann-Grandstaff VA Medical Center in Spokane, 
Washington, and the VA Central Ohio Healthcare System in Columbus.\4\ 
Among the findings were that VHA and EHRM-IO did not fully resolve 
known limitations in the scheduling system before and after deployment, 
leading to reduced effectiveness and increased risk of patient care 
delays. Schedulers were forced to develop work-arounds for unresolved 
issues and inaccurate data migrated from legacy systems. EHRM-IO 
leaders did not provide scheduling staff with adequate chances to 
identify limitations in the new scheduling system before 
implementation, nor did leaders develop an efficient and transparent 
method of handling requests for help and complaints (trouble tickets).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \4\ VA OIG, Care Coordination Deficiencies after the New Electronic 
Health Record Go-Live at the Mann-Grandstaff VA Medical Center in 
Spokane, Washington, March 17, 2022; VA OIG, New Patient Scheduling 
System Needs Improvement as VA Expands Its Implementation, November 10, 
2021.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    While these very specific problems have been remediated, similar 
problems could reemerge once VA begins large-scale deployments of the 
system at new facilities. In 2024, the OIG alerted VA to the potential 
that systemic, facility-level scheduling problems may be exacerbated at 
larger, more complex VHA medical facilities.\5\ Among the issues raised 
were the need for additional staffing and overtime, displaced 
appointment queue functionality (described below), challenges related 
to providers and schedulers sharing information, inaccurate patient 
information, difficulties changing appointment types, and the inability 
to automatically mail appointment reminder letters. Consequently, at 
future go-live facilities, assessing staffing levels and overtime usage 
before deployment and preparing staff with approved workflow best 
practices may help to reduce employee stress and facilitate successful 
adoption of the system.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ VA OIG, Scheduling Challenges Within the New Electronic Health 
Record May Affect Future Sites, March 21, 2024.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Displaced Appointment Queue's Issues Can Impede Rescheduling

    According to a March 2024 OIG publication, schedulers using the new 
EHR are experiencing difficulties with what is termed ``the displaced 
appointment queue,'' which at times resulted in patients not getting 
rescheduled.\6\ That queue is used by scheduling staff to identify 
appointments needing to be rescheduled if a healthcare provider has a 
schedule change. Staff reported that the new EHR does not always route 
appointments to the queue and that properly routed appointments 
sometimes disappeared from the queue. EHRM-IO told the OIG it was aware 
of the defects in the operation of the displaced appointment queue and 
that updates in 2024 were intended to address them. EHRM-IO staff 
stated that medical facilities received guidance informing schedulers 
how to reschedule patients without using the queue and that the queue 
was intended as a safety net. However, the OIG reported that the 
defects in the operation of the displaced appointment queue made it an 
unreliable safety net. The OIG oversight team could not definitively 
identify how many patients were affected. However, because the problems 
were not resolved, they could be amplified at larger VHA facilities, 
given more staff will have more schedule changes requiring 
rescheduling.\7\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \6\ VA OIG, Scheduling Challenges Within the New Electronic Health 
Record May Affect Future Sites.
    \7\ A separate issue affecting schedulers and care providers is 
that they cannot easily share information about appointments, such as 
notes explaining why an appointment was canceled, which was a function 
in the legacy EHR system.

Some Previously Documented Scheduling Inefficiencies and Errors Persist 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
in Changing Appointment Types and Sending Appointment Reminders

    OIG field work revealed that schedulers still face ongoing 
difficulties in changing appointment types, and barriers remain in 
automatically mailing appointment reminder letters. These deficiencies 
may have been exacerbated by staffs' perception that training was 
inadequate.

    Changing Appointment Types. The OIG's 2021 scheduling report found 
that VHA and EHRM-IO had not resolved many of the system and process 
weaknesses identified by pre-implementation assessments and 
workshops.\8\ One system weakness identified was the new EHR's 
inability to change the appointment type (face-to-face, VA Video 
Connect, or telehealth) for an existing appointment without canceling 
the appointment and reordering a new appointment.\9\ This process 
inevitably led to more burdensome work for schedulers and providers. In 
2022, VHA planned on fixing this issue through a system update and was 
finalizing guidance for schedulers' mitigation strategies. However, in 
2024, schedulers from all five new EHR facilities confirmed that they 
still need to cancel existing appointments and manually create new ones 
when changing the type of appointment. Using manual processes could 
have a much more significant impact at larger medical facilities.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \8\ VA OIG, New Patient Scheduling System Needs Improvement as VA 
Expands Its Implementation.
    \9\ VA OIG, Scheduling Challenges Within the New Electronic Health 
Record May Affect Future Sites.

    Appointment Reminders. Another weakness the OIG previously 
identified in its November 2021 review was that the new EHR could not 
automatically send reminder letters to patients for upcoming 
appointments. While not required, veterans were accustomed to and 
relied on these letters from the legacy EHR. The letters also reduced 
``no shows'' and missed appointments.\10\ The automated mailing of 
reminder letters is not a function within the new EHR, and during the 
OIG's March 2024 review, the team determined that this system 
limitation still existed. In November 2023, EHRM-IO had planned to 
release an interface that would allow schedulers to automatically 
generate the letters; however, the OIG understands the interface had 
not been deployed as of February 2025 at the Captain James A. Lovell 
Federal Health Care Center in North Chicago, Illinois, following that 
facility's March 2024 implementation of the new EHR.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \10\ VA OIG, New Patient Scheduling System Needs Improvement as VA 
Expands Its Implementation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    As of March 2024, facilities that continued to mail appointment 
reminder letters had to manually print and mail them to patients, a 
time-consuming process for staff. One facility with the new EHR is 
estimated to have manually printed and mailed nearly 195,000 reminder 
letters for its appointments in fiscal year 2023.\11\ The three 
facilities using the new EHR have undertaken different solutions to 
address this system limitation. Some now rely instead on other methods, 
such as autogenerated text messages and emails or phone calls. VA 
should expedite the release of the interface to all medical facilities 
that are or will use the new EHR for those facilities wishing to 
continue mail reminders, whether alone or in addition to other options.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \11\ VA OIG, Scheduling Challenges Within the New Electronic Health 
Record May Affect Future Sites.

    Training. The OIG team in March 2024 also identified issues with 
schedulers feeling that training provided by Oracle Health was 
inadequate.\12\ Some schedulers at new EHR sites rely on their own 
local practices and guidance to supplement that given by Oracle Health, 
and VA has provided facilities feedback on the supplemental training. 
However, some of the facilities' locally developed work-arounds do not 
adhere to VA's approved scheduling workflow processes, which can 
contradict VA processes meant to standardize scheduling processes.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \12\ VA OIG, Scheduling Challenges Within the New Electronic Health 
Record May Affect Future Sites.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The New EHR's Scheduling Errors May Have Contributed to a Patient Death

    The OIG confirmed in a March 2024 report that a system error in the 
new EHR resulted in staff's failure to complete the minimally required 
scheduling efforts following a patient's missed mental health 
appointment.\13\ While a letter was sent and calls were made on the day 
of the missed appointment, staff did not complete the telephone calls 
on separate days as directed. The OIG found that the patient's missed 
appointment, although updated in the new EHR to no-show status, was not 
routed to a ``request queue.'' As a result, schedulers were not 
prompted by the system to conduct the mandated rescheduling efforts 
meant to maximize opportunities to engage patients and not let them 
slip through the cracks. The OIG concluded that the lack of follow-up 
contact may have contributed to the patient's disengagement from mental 
health treatment and, ultimately, the patient's substance use relapse 
and death.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \13\ VA OIG, Scheduling Error of the New Electronic Health Record 
and Inadequate Mental Health Care at the VA Central Ohio Healthcare 
System in Columbus Contributed to a Patient Death, March 21, 2024.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    On a larger scale, the OIG found that VHA was requiring mental 
health staff at new EHR sites to make fewer attempts to contact no-show 
patients than at legacy EHR sites. The standard operating procedure for 
minimum scheduling efforts establishes a different standard of care 
based on which EHR system is in use at a facility, which could result 
in disparities affecting veterans' access to care. Scheduling is a 
foundational element of any system that is designed to provide patients 
with timely access to quality care. Yet the recommendation to the then 
deputy secretary to monitor the new EHR's scheduling functionality, as 
well as the recommendation directed to the then under secretary for 
health to evaluate minimum scheduling effort requirements, are not yet 
fully implemented. In sum, the new EHR's operation does not comply with 
VHA's appointment scheduling policy.

THE NEW EHR HAS LONGSTANDING, UNRESOLVED PHARMACY-RELATED PATIENT 
SAFETY ISSUES

    In May 2021, after VA's first deployment of the new EHR at the 
Mann-Grandstaff VA Medical Center, a pharmacy patient safety team under 
the VA National Center for Patient Safety (NCPS) identified pharmacy-
related patient safety issues and staff concerns regarding the system's 
usability. For example, updates to a patient's active medication list 
were not routinely reflected at the patient's next appointment. The OIG 
found that, despite being aware of users' ongoing challenges in 2021, 
VA leaders elected to deploy the new EHR at four more VA medical 
centers.\14\ Following subsequent deployment of the new EHR in April 
2022 (more than a year later) at the VA Central Ohio Healthcare System 
in Columbus, the OIG determined that patient safety and usability 
issues identified by NCPS were still a factor in many of Columbus's 
pharmacy-related patient safety incident reports.\15\ Although Oracle 
Health and VA have since resolved some of those issues, the OIG remains 
concerned, as described below, that the new EHR will continue to be 
deployed at larger, more complex medical facilities before resolving 
myriad known issues that remain related to prescribing medications and 
medication safety.\16\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \14\ VA OIG, Electronic Health Record Modernization Caused 
Pharmacy-Related Patient Safety Issues Nationally and at the VA Central 
Ohio Healthcare System in Columbus, March 21, 2024.
    \15\  VA OIG, Electronic Health Record Modernization Caused 
Pharmacy-Related Patient Safety Issues Nationally and at the VA Central 
Ohio Healthcare System in Columbus.
    \16\  Oracle acquired Cerner in June 2022, changing the name of the 
entity to Oracle Cerner and again to Oracle Health. The statement uses 
Oracle Health for readability, while some events occurred under prior 
business names.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Software Coding Errors Created Patient Safety Issues

    EHR information is communicated between VHA facilities through 
different channels, including the Joint Longitudinal Viewer (JLV) and 
the Health Data Repository (HDR).\17\ For patients who receive care at 
a legacy-EHR medical facility, the JLV application allows healthcare 
providers to access a ``read only'' version of a patient's medical 
record from both the legacy EHR, Veterans Health Information Systems 
and Technology Architecture (VistA), and the new EHR.\18\ The HDR is a 
data base that stores patients' clinical information, including 
medications and allergies, creating a common repository of information 
from both VistA and the new EHR.\19\ Every medication used in VHA is 
assigned a distinct number, a VA Unique Identifier (VUID). The accuracy 
and completeness of VUIDs and medication allergy information contained 
in these systems is critical to supporting individual patient treatment 
decisions.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \17\ JLV is a read-only web-based application for viewing patient 
electronic health records from VA and community partners through a 
customizable interface. JLV plays an important role in VA's transition 
to the new EHR, as it allows users to see EHR data at other sites 
regardless of the system in place. Because veterans are eligible to 
receive health care at any VA facility, providers at all facilities 
need accurate medication information. When a patient is prescribed a 
medication at a new EHR site, that medication's unique identifier is 
sent to the HDR. If that same patient seeks care from a facility 
provider using the old system, and this provider enters a medication 
order, a system software interface from the old system accesses the 
medication's VA Unique Identifier from the HDR data base to perform a 
safety check. This process, which relies on the accuracy of the 
information in the HDR, verifies the medication being prescribed is 
safe and compatible with any medications and allergies previously 
documented in the patient's record.
    \18\ The OIG uses the term ``legacy EHR'' to refer to Veterans 
Health Information Systems and Technology Architecture (VistA), the 
system used prior to the Oracle Health EHR product.
    \19\ Va.gov, VistA Monograph, July 18, 2023. The VA Health Data 
Repository (HDR) is ``a national, clinical data storehouse that 
supports integrated, computable and/or viewable access to the patient's 
longitudinal health record.''
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A 2024 OIG report affirmed that an error in Oracle Health's 
software coding resulted in the widespread transmission of incorrect 
VUIDs from new EHR sites to legacy EHR sites.\20\ The OIG learned these 
unique identifiers became inaccurate during their transmission to the 
HDR when fills for certain prescriptions were processed through the 
VHA's Consolidated Mail Outpatient Pharmacy (referred to as the mail 
order pharmacy).\21\ In short, this error, now rectified, created the 
potential for medication-related patient safety issues for patients 
from any new EHR site who also received care at a legacy EHR site.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \20\ VA OIG, Electronic Health Record Modernization Caused 
Pharmacy-Related Patient Safety Issues Nationally and at the VA Central 
Ohio Healthcare System in Columbus.
    \21\ The Consolidated Mail Outpatient Pharmacy is a centralized 
automated pharmacy system comprised of seven pharmacies that provide 
mail order medications to VHA patients. The OIG did not find any errors 
on the part of mail order pharmacy staff or operations, and patients 
received their correct medications.

Medication-Related Data Transmission Issues Pose Threats to Patient 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Safety

    The OIG learned that research into the cause of the VUID error led 
to the discovery of other problems associated with the transmission of 
medication and allergy information from the new EHR to the HDR. On June 
15, 2023, the NCPS alerted VHA staff to data transmission issues and 
errors, including missing, duplicate, or incorrect medication and 
allergy information being transmitted. The consequences of inaccurate 
medication information transmission to the HDR include

      patients' medications that have been discontinued or 
stopped by new EHR-site providers appear in the legacy EHR as active 
and current prescriptions;

      allergy warning messages not appearing when intended or 
inappropriately appearing for the wrong medication;

      duplicate medication order checks not appearing when 
intended or inappropriately appearing for the wrong drug; and

      patients' active medication lists having incomplete or 
inaccurate information, such as missing prescriptions, duplicate 
prescriptions, or incorrect medication order statuses.

    VHA staff were told to remain aware that legacy EHR sites may have 
inaccurate medication information for patients treated at both legacy 
and new EHR sites. An EHRM-IO data leader told the OIG that EHRM-IO and 
Oracle Health's original testing focused on data transmission from the 
new EHR to the HDR, but no entity verified the data's accuracy when 
accessed by legacy EHR users. Within the June 15 NCPS patient safety 
alert, a series of mitigations were described to be employed by 
frontline clinical staff at all legacy EHR sites and required that all 
legacy EHR site leaders have medical providers perform these multistep 
manual medication safety checks when prescribing new drugs for all 
patients who had received care at a new EHR site at any time. These 
manual safety checks are complex, time-consuming, and rely on the 
vigilance of patients, pharmacists, and frontline staff.
    Further, at the time of the June 15 notice, VHA could not determine 
which patients were at risk of a patient safety event from the data 
transmission errors, and therefore determined that all patients who had 
been prescribed any medications at a new EHR site or had medication 
allergies documented at a new EHR site were ``at risk.'' Per VHA data, 
as of September 2023, approximately 190,000 patients had a medication 
prescribed and 126,000 patients had an allergy documented at a new EHR 
site. Approximately 68,000 patients were in both groups, totaling about 
250,000 unique patients.\22\ In response to an OIG recommendation, VHA 
has notified all patients affected by inaccurate medication data 
transmitted to the HDR and informed them of the potential risk of harm 
due to possible inaccuracies of their medication and allergy 
information within the new EHR. However, patients have been advised to 
bring their medications to each VHA visit so their providers have an 
accurate inventory of current medications.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \22\ VA OIG, Electronic Health Record Modernization Caused 
Pharmacy-Related Patient Safety Issues Nationally and at the VA Central 
Ohio Healthcare System in Columbus. The data represent the most recent 
update received by OIG from VHA of the number of unique patients who 
have had any medication prescribed or any allergy documented at a new 
EHR through September 29, 2023.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Despite these efforts, the OIG remains concerned that patients 
served by a new EHR site who also receive care at a legacy EHR site may 
still be prescribed contraindicated medications and that healthcare 
providers at legacy sites are making clinical decisions based on 
inaccurate data. For example, during the review of the HDR issues 
described above, the OIG learned of a new EHR site patient with 
posttraumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury with adrenal 
insufficiency whose care was negatively influenced by inaccurate 
medication data transfer from their new EHR site to the HDR, 
contributing to the patient not being prescribed a critical lifesaving 
therapy on admission to a residential rehabilitation treatment program 
at a legacy EHR site.\23\ The legacy EHR site pharmacist's data from 
the prescribing new EHR site did not include the patient's most recent 
prednisone prescription. The patient realized they needed prednisone 
after they began exhibiting unusual behaviors, but the nurse said there 
was no prednisone on the patient's medication list. Eventually, the 
patient was transferred to a local emergency room for care and 
prednisone treatment was re-initiated. This example shows the 
difficulty with completing numerous, accurate manual reconciliations, 
particularly for patients with impaired cognition.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \23\ VA OIG, Electronic Health Record Modernization Caused 
Pharmacy-Related Patient Safety Issues Nationally and at the VA Central 
Ohio Healthcare System in Columbus.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The OIG continues to review VHA's efforts to comply with the 
recommendation that they ensure legacy-site-EHR providers are aware of 
mitigations needed for patients previously treated at a new EHR site, 
as well as their efforts to monitor compliance with those mitigations.

The New EHR's Negative Effect on VHA Pharmacy Staff

    The OIG determined that Columbus's chief of pharmacy prepared for 
challenges during the system transition, such as the pharmacy staff's 
increased workload due to the new EHR's operational inefficiencies. One 
mitigation was to hire nine full-time clinical pharmacists, which 
represented a 62 percent staffing increase, in order to reduce the 
backlog and maintain timely prescription processing needs following the 
April 2022 deployment.\24\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \24\ VA OIG, Electronic Health Record Modernization Caused 
Pharmacy-Related Patient Safety Issues Nationally and at the VA Central 
Ohio Healthcare System in Columbus.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A VHA leader stated that challenges with the new EHR's usability 
also led to the creation of dozens of national and facility-level work-
arounds and educational materials for pharmacy personnel. Facility 
pharmacy leaders also developed approximately 25 educational materials, 
such as tip sheets, reference guides, and job aids, to further support 
Columbus pharmacy staff. The OIG is concerned that the continued use of 
numerous work-arounds and educational materials is overwhelming for 
pharmacy staff to implement and may give rise to inconsistent 
practices, which increase risks to patient safety. In addition, the new 
EHR's usability issues contributed to staff stress about making errors 
that could result in patient harm--concerns linked to pharmacy staff 
burnout, low morale, and decreased job satisfaction. The OIG found that 
following implementation of the new EHR, burnout symptoms for pharmacy 
staff increased and the Best Places to Work score for pharmacy staff 
decreased from the previous fiscal year.\25\ VHA pharmacy and patient 
safety leaders told the OIG of a need for increased staff vigilance to 
avoid patient harm. OIG oversight personnel believe this increased 
vigilance is unsustainable by pharmacists and staff responsible for 
clinical decision-making and may lead to increases in burnout and 
medication-related patient safety events.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \25\ The OIG compared 2021 and 2022 facility All Employee Survey 
(AES) results. A Columbus leader informed the OIG that VA launched the 
2022 AES on June 6, 2022, 37 days after the new EHR's implementation at 
the facility. ``Best Places to Work'' is a summary measure produced by 
the Partnership for Public Service and is a weighted average of job and 
organization satisfaction and likelihood to recommend VA as a good 
place to work.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The OIG's recommendations from this March 2024 report to ensure 
pharmacist staffing levels are addressed and to evaluate and remediate 
the various technical and functional issues resulting from all these 
work-arounds remain open as of February 20, 2025.

MAJOR PERFORMANCE INCIDENTS MAY HINDER USER ADOPTION AND TIMELY, COST-
EFFICIENT FUTURE DEPLOYMENTS

    While the above reports describe the impacts of failings with the 
system's programming and functions, the OIG is also concerned that the 
contract between VA and Oracle Health and VA procedures do not have 
sufficient controls to prevent, respond to, and mitigate the impact of 
major performance incidents affecting the new EHR.\26\ Since 2020, the 
system experienced hundreds of major performance incidents affecting 
the medical facilities where the system was initially deployed. VA 
lacked adequate controls to prevent system changes from causing major 
incidents, to respond to those incidents uniformly and thoroughly, or 
to mitigate their impact by providing standard procedures for outages 
and interoperable downtime equipment. Further, although major 
performance incidents can delay care to veterans, VA had no formal 
process to link reports of these delays to these incidents. Ultimately, 
the weak controls for handling major incidents stemmed from the 
original May 2018 contract.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \26\ VA OIG, VA Needs to Strengthen Controls to Address Electronic 
Health Record System Major Performance Incidents, September 23, 2024.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In May 2023, VA modified the contract with Oracle Health to 
strengthen some requirements for addressing major incidents, but more 
work is needed. These new requirements include a metric that outlines 
monthly target percentages for the system to be free of incidents other 
than outages, an increase in the target monthly uptime for the system, 
and strengthened requirements for financial credits when problems have 
not resolved within established time frames. Reliable system 
performance and preventing incidents from happening were some of VA's 
primary reset goals.
    The OIG made nine recommendations, including for real-time data-
sharing related to potential problems in system operations, 
prioritizing major performance incident response in a clear and 
consistent manner, developing and enforcing response and other 
performance metrics to hold the contractor accountable, requiring 
sufficient detail in post-resolution reports, raising staff awareness 
of procedures, acquiring appropriate backup systems for downtime, and 
better identifying and addressing major performance incidents linked to 
negative patient outcomes. The nine recommendations are currently open, 
and the OIG has begun the follow-up process to assess VA's progress in 
implementation.
    Although the OIG recognizes VA's improving system reliability, 
there are still incidents occurring every month. Separate from these 
requirements, in August 2023, VA contracted with Oracle Health to 
obtain a downtime viewer to provide an additional tool for clinicians 
when the system is unavailable. Still, VA has opportunities to make 
future contract changes that could help improve its management of major 
incidents. Oracle Health could share real-time EHR incident data to 
provide VA with greater awareness and enable quicker oversight action. 
Detailed incident reporting would also help VA determine root causes 
and prevent similar incidents from occurring. This is particularly 
important as the new EHR system may be stressed by deployment in larger 
and more complex medical facilities. Indeed, the planned 2026 
deployments in Michigan will include, for the first time, simultaneous 
deployments to complexity level 1 facilities.\27\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \27\ VA, Diffusion Marketplace, accessed February 18, 2025.

INCOMPLETE INFRASTRUCTURE ASSESSMENTS AND COST ESTIMATES CANNOT BE 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
REMEDIED WITHOUT A RELIABLE, HIGH-QUALITY PROJECT SCHEDULE

    The OIG's oversight, which began before the system's initial 
deployment at the Mann-Grandstaff VA Medical Center, focused on the 
condition of VA's physical and information technology (IT) 
infrastructure before system deployment. Two 2021 reports (published in 
May and July) resulted from audits that examined cost estimates for 
needed physical and IT-related infrastructure upgrades nationwide. For 
the new EHR system to operate as intended, VHA facilities need these 
infrastructure upgrades, but they are generally funded from different 
sources. Because the life-cycle cost estimates for infrastructure 
upgrades did not account for costs from all VA components' budgets, 
some estimated costs were not included in mandated reports to Congress 
from 2018 and 2020.\28\ Transparent and reliable cost estimates are 
critical for Congress to make informed budgeting decisions. VA senior 
leaders also depend on these cost estimates to plan program budgets, 
approve acquisitions, and monitor program execution. The OIG determined 
that both the existing physical and IT infrastructures were inadequate 
for the new system at initial deployment sites. Pertinent life-cycle 
cost estimates for infrastructure upgrades were also unreliable and 
likely underreported by approximately $5 billion. However, these cost 
estimates will not be reliable if VA does not develop and maintain an 
integrated master schedule projecting the detailed activities needed to 
bring the new EHR to its facilities.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \28\ VA OIG, Deficiencies in Reporting Reliable Physical 
Infrastructure Cost Estimates for the Electronic Health Record 
Modernization Program, May 25, 2021.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
VA Has Not Developed a Reliable Schedule Enabling Deployment Planning

    The OIG's 2022 audit of the EHRM program's master schedule found VA 
lacked a reliable integrated master schedule consistent with their 
adopted scheduling standards, which increased the risk of missing 
milestones and delaying the delivery of the system.\29\ At the time of 
publication, the OIG estimated that schedule delays could result in 
about $1.95 billion in cost overruns per year and would undermine VA's 
other modernization efforts on supply chain and financial management 
systems. Given various inflationary pressures and the two-year pause on 
deployments, that figure may understate the impact of cost overruns.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \29\ VA OIG, The Electronic Health Record Modernization Program Did 
Not Fully Meet the Standards for a High-Quality, Reliable Schedule, 
April 25, 2022.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    To implement the program successfully within any proposed 
timeframe, it is imperative that VA develop a reliable integrated 
master schedule. GAO guidance, which the EHRM program office adopted in 
its internal plans, states that a high-quality, reliable schedule 
should be comprehensive, credible, well-constructed, and 
controlled.\30\ This schedule is designed to cover the entire required 
scope of work needed to successfully complete the program from start to 
finish, including both government and contractor work. It is intended 
to provide VA personnel with a road map to completion, track progress, 
help identify potential problems and track their resolutions, and 
promote accountability for assigned tasks. Further, it will help 
determine more precisely the sum of financial resources Congress must 
provide for project completion.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \30\ GAO, Schedule Assessment Guide, GAO-16-89G, December 2015.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Simply put, VA never completed a baseline schedule or an overall 
schedule that fully integrated individual portions of the project. The 
audit team found known tasks were not reflected on schedules and 
longer-term actions had not been scheduled. Given the approach VA was 
using in planning when the OIG completed this audit, VA would not have 
a high-quality, reliable integrated master schedule until it starts 
deploying the system to the very last facilities. While there may be 
precise scheduling items for a facility that are not set until closer 
to the actual deployment, there are many tasks and interdependencies 
that VA can plan for currently.
    Moreover, VA could not have relied upon any scheduling effort it 
had conducted, since it did not engage in a risk analysis, which shows 
how events would impact the likelihood the schedule could be met. Given 
VA's announced intention to deploy the new EHR to larger facilities 
next year, it must have contingency plans given that VA has experienced 
numerous unexpected problems with the new EHR's functionality and 
sustained drops in productivity requiring ongoing, resource-intensive 
mitigations at new EHR sites.
    Four of the OIG's six recommendations to EHRM-IO remain open. At 
the time of this hearing, VA has not yet complied with internal 
guidance by developing an integrated master schedule that meets 
standards and makes certain that activities from all relevant VA 
entities are included in the schedule. The department has also failed 
to implement procedures for performing schedule risk analyses and make 
contract language and program office plans (or other guidance) 
consistent to confirm the appropriate individual is responsible for 
developing and maintaining the integrated master schedule.
    The two reports on physical and IT infrastructure recommended that 
VA obtain an independent cost estimate for the EHR program's life-cycle 
costs, which VA received from the Institute for Defense Analyses. In 
September 2022, the Institute reported a cycle cost estimate of $49.8 
billion, including $32.7 billion for a 13-year implementation phase 
(including a three-year schedule adjustment reflecting the low 
likelihood the new EHR would be deployed system-wide on schedule), and 
the rest for sustainment.\31\ While the OIG has now closed those 
recommendations related to obtaining the estimate, VA's stakeholders 
should recognize that the Institute's cost estimates are not likely to 
still be reliable given the delays and system changes of the 
intervening years. Additionally, the Institute itself acknowledged that 
its estimate did not have a high degree of certainty given the many 
risks and uncertainties in the deployment schedule.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \31\ GAO, ELECTRONIC HEALTH RECORD MODERNIZATION: VA Needs to 
Address Change Management Challenges, User Satisfaction, and System 
Issues, March 15, 2023.

Deficiencies in Reporting Reliable Physical Infrastructure Cost 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Estimates for the EHRM Program

    This audit examined whether VHA's cost estimates met VA standards 
and were comprehensive, well documented, accurate, and credible, and 
whether they were reported to Congress. Some VHA medical facilities may 
require significant physical infrastructure upgrades, such as 
electrical work, cabling, heating, ventilation, and cooling to 
successfully deploy the new EHR system.
    VHA and the then Office of Electronic Health Record Management 
(OEHRM) shared responsibilities for estimating and reporting physical 
infrastructure upgrade costs.\32\ VHA developed the physical 
infrastructure upgrade cost estimates, while OEHRM was responsible for 
reporting all program life-cycle cost estimates to Congress in 
accordance with the Veterans Benefits and Transition Act of 2018.\33\ 
It required quarterly reporting on the EHRM program's status, including 
annual and life-cycle cost estimates and defined the program as any 
activities to procure or implement the new EHR system. In early 2019, 
VA's Office of General Counsel determined that physical infrastructure 
upgrades must be funded from accounts specifically available for 
construction-type purposes, such as VHA's nonrecurring maintenance and 
minor construction funds. Given the pause of the program for the last 
two years and the lack of a more specific deployment schedule, VA has 
not yet produced evidence of sufficient progress to close the OIG 
recommendation that VA disclose accurate costs for physical 
infrastructure upgrades in program life-cycle cost estimates to 
Congress.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \32\ In 2021, VA transitioned EHRM program management from the 
Office of Electronic Health Record Modernization (OEHRM) to the EHRM 
Integration Office (EHRM IO). EHRM IO has responsibility for all 
recommendations originally assigned to OEHRM.
    \33\  Public Law 115-407.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The EHRM Program Did Not Have Reliable IT Infrastructure Cost Estimates

    In 2021, VA estimated the total program cost of $16.1 billion would 
include $4.3 billion in IT infrastructure upgrades.\34\ Like the work 
on physical infrastructure, the related IT infrastructure audit 
examined whether OEHRM-developed cost estimates from 2018 and 2020 were 
well-documented, comprehensive, credible, and accurate, and whether 
OEHRM reported to Congress all IT infrastructure upgrade costs, 
including future technology updates. The audit team found VA did not 
include costs for critical program-related IT infrastructure upgrades 
in the estimates reported to Congress during that period, effectively 
underreporting program cost estimates by nearly $2.5 billion for IT 
infrastructure upgrades that VA's Office of Information and Technology 
(OIT) and VHA were expected to fund.\35\ Also like the physical 
infrastructure costs, OEHRM officials stated they felt the omitted 
costs were outside their scope of responsibility, but neither OIT nor 
VHA reported these costs to Congress, despite VA and Government 
Accountability Office (GAO) guidance requiring life-cycle cost 
estimates to include all costs, regardless of source. The costs should 
have been disclosed by OEHRM. VA did make changes to projected costs 
starting in the November 2021 report to Congress, but because VA was 
still developing the independent cost estimate, there was no certainty 
the updates were reliable. Without all critical IT infrastructure 
upgrade costs accurately presented, Congress lacks the comprehensive 
picture of total program costs needed to make informed oversight and 
investment decisions. Subsequently, based on the OIG's audit, VA's 
reporting requirements were updated by the VA Electronic Health Record 
Transparency Act of 2021.\36\ As of February 21, 2025, the 
recommendations ensuring that (1) cost estimates align with VA policy, 
(2) VA maintains full and complete cost accounting, and (3) complete 
and updated costs are conveyed transparently to Congress remain open 
because VA has not been able to identify all of the program's costs.
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    \34\ VA OIG, Unreliable Information Technology Infrastructure Cost 
Estimates for the Electronic Health Record Modernization Program, July 
7, 2021.
    \35\ OIT is expected to fund some upgrades for the local area 
network, end-user devices, phones, and Wi-Fi, while VHA is expected to 
fund upgrades mostly for medical devices.
    \36\ Public Law 117-154.

Facility and Staff Deployment Support Have Unidentified Costs and Risks 
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That May Continue in Future Deployments

    Each VA medical facility that has deployed the new EHR has 
experienced sustained drops in productivity and throughput.\37\ 
According to VA, its facilities have used strategies like temporary 
staffing, increased use of community care, and finding efficiencies in 
operations.\38\ The challenges associated with mitigating the 
productivity drops at facilities during the training periods and after 
deployment will be magnified at the larger, more complex deployments in 
2026. In April 2020, before the first deployment, the OIG called on VA 
to evaluate the impact on productivity during a deployment and provide 
facility leaders with operational guidance and required resources.\39\ 
The recommendation remains open, as VA has not yet made sufficient 
progress on this effort. The same is true of the OIG's recommendation 
that VA minimize the number of mitigation strategies that facility 
staff must employ to deal with decreased capabilities during the 
deployment. Increased hiring efforts, temporary staff, and community 
care utilization all have significant financial impacts that VHA 
facilities must navigate. As discussed previously, the number of 
additional pharmacy staff handling manual pharmacy operations at new 
EHR sites has increased VA's payroll. There is likely to be an even 
greater financial impact as VA may need to hire thousands of employees 
to mitigate the drops of productivity at future deployment sites. 
Without having finalized plans to deal with these issues, VA cannot 
reasonably estimate deployment costs in addition to physical and IT 
infrastructure needs.
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    \37\ VA OIG, Electronic Health Record Modernization Caused 
Pharmacy-Related Patient Safety Issues Nationally and at the VA Central 
Ohio Healthcare System in Columbus.
    \38\ VA OIG, Review of Access to Care and Capabilities During VA's 
Transition to a New Electronic Health Record System at the Mann-
Grandstaff VA Medical Center in Spokane, Washington.
    \39\ VA OIG, Review of Access to Care and Capabilities During VA's 
Transition to a New Electronic Health Record System at the Mann-
Grandstaff VA Medical Center in Spokane, Washington.
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    Other OIG reports have discussed issues impacting user acceptance 
of the system from inadequate or insufficient training on the new EHR 
to concerns with the process for resolving problems and requesting 
assistance through ``tickets.'' \40\ These challenges impaired the 
ability of contractor support staff to address end users' problems, led 
to end users' disengagement, and increased patient safety risks. The 
OIG generally found that EHR usability problems, training deficits, 
interoperability, the need for post-go-live fixes and refinements, and 
problem-resolution process challenges complicated VHA providers' work. 
While these specific issues have been resolved, VA should be sure it 
carefully monitors these points during future deployments. Further, as 
the reset has led to new and updated system functionality, leaders must 
be prepared to swiftly manage any consequences from these updates that 
result in compromised patient care and safety. As the changes employed 
during the reset are made to the entire new EHR system, this increased 
alertness is vital not only at newly deploying sites but at all sites 
that have deployed the new EHR to date.
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    \40\ VA OIG, Ticket Process Concerns and Underlying Factors 
Contributing to Deficiencies after the New Electronic Health Record Go-
Live at the Mann-Grandstaff VA Medical Center in Spokane, Washington, 
March 17, 2022; VA OIG, Training Deficiencies with VA's New Electronic 
Health Record System at the Mann-Grandstaff VA Medical Center in 
Spokane, Washington, July 8, 2021.

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CONCLUSION

    The OIG will continue to conduct rigorous oversight of VA's efforts 
as it restarts deployments of the new EHR system with a keen focus on 
patient care and safety, VA staff's ability to efficiently do their 
jobs, and making the most effective use of taxpayer dollars. The OIG is 
committed to providing impactful and practical recommendations that 
flow from its oversight work to help VA efficiently deploy the new EHR 
in a manner that improves veterans' safety, care, and experiences. As 
our reports and testimonies over the last five years demonstrate, the 
OIG has identified significant, unresolved deficiencies that have 
thwarted progress on the new EHR and have contributed to patient harms.
    It is incumbent on EHRM-IO, VHA and facility leaders, VA leaders, 
and Oracle Health to ensure they are providing full transparency in 
their communications with the veteran community, frontline VA staff, 
and Congress. Effective program management is critical to the 
successful deployment of the new EHR. Accountability established 
through clear roles and responsibilities, meaningful metrics, and close 
oversight with transparent reporting and swift remediation of any 
identified issues will all need to be firmly integrated into future 
efforts. Failures in any of these areas chance cascading problems that 
put patients at risk, make it more difficult for VA personnel to do 
their jobs, and perpetuate cost overruns and delays. Chairman Barrett, 
this concludes my statement. I would be happy to answer any questions 
you or other members may have.

                   Prepared Statement of Carol Harris
                   
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