[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                 BUILDING OUR FUTURE: INCREASING HOUSING
                            SUPPLY IN AMERICA

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               before the

                 SUBCOMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND INSURANCE

                                 of the

                    COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________


                             March 4, 2025

                               __________


                            Serial No. 119-8


       Printed for the use of the Committee on Financial Services





                 [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]





                            www.govinfo.gov

                               ______
                                 

                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

59-638 PDF                WASHINGTON : 2025










                 HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES

                    FRENCH HILL, Arkansas, Chairman

BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan, Vice        MAXINE WATERS, California, Ranking 
    Chairman                             Member
FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma             SYLVIA R. GARCIA, Texas, Vice 
PETE SESSIONS, Texas                     Ranking Member
ANN WAGNER, Missouri                 NYDIA M. VELAZQUEZ, New York
ANDY BARR, Kentucky                  BRAD SHERMAN, California
ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas                GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York
TOM EMMER, Minnesota                 DAVID SCOTT, Georgia
BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia            STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts
WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio                AL GREEN, Texas
JOHN W. ROSE, Tennessee              EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri
BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin               JAMES A. HIMES, Connecticut
WILLIAM R. TIMMONS, IV, South        BILL FOSTER, Illinois
    Carolina                         JOYCE BEATTY, Ohio
MARLIN STUTZMAN, Indiana             JUAN VARGAS, California
RALPH NORMAN, South Carolina         JOSH GOTTHEIMER, New Jersey
DANIEL MEUSER, Pennsylvania          VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas
YOUNG KIM, California                SEAN CASTEN, Illinois
BYRON DONALDS, Florida               AYANNA PRESSLEY, Massachusetts
ANDREW R. GARBARINO, New York        RASHIDA TLAIB, Michigan
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin          RITCHIE TORRES, New York
MIKE FLOOD, Nebraska                 NIKEMA WILLIAMS, Georgia
MICHAEL LAWLER, New York             BRITTANY PETTERSEN, Colorado
MONICA DE LA CRUZ, Texas             CLEO FIELDS, Louisiana
ANDREW OGLES, Tennessee              JANELLE BYNUM, Oregon
ZACHARY NUNN, Iowa                   SAM LICCARDO, California
LISA McCLAIN, Michigan
MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
TROY DOWNING, Montana
MIKE HARIDOPOLOS, Florida
TIM MOORE, North Carolina

                      Ben Johnson, Staff Director

                                 ------                                

                 SUBCOMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND INSURANCE

                     MIKE FLOOD, Nebraska, Chairman

MONICA DE LA CRUZ, Texas, Vice       EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri, Ranking 
    Chairwoman                           Member
JOHN W. ROSE, Tennessee              NYDIA M. VELAZQUEZ, New York
WILLIAM R. TIMMONS, IV, South        RASHIDA TLAIB, Michigan
    Carolina                         AYANNA PRESSLEY, Massachusetts
RALPH NORMAN, South Carolina         RITCHIE TORRES, New York
ANDREW R. GARBARINO, New York        SYLVIA R. GARCIA, Texas
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin          NIKEMA WILLIAMS, Georgia
MICHAEL LAWLER, New York             BRITTANY PETTERSEN, Colorado
MARIA SALAZAR, Florida               JANELLE BYNUM, Oregon
TROY DOWNING, Montana









                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                         Tuesday, March 4, 2025
                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
Hon. Mike Flood, Chairman of the Subcommittee on Housing and 
  Insurance, a U.S. Representative from Nebraska.................     1
Hon. Emanuel Cleaver, Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on 
  Housing and Insurance, a U.S. Representative from Missouri.....     2

                               STATEMENTS

Hon. French Hill, Chairman of the Committee on Financial 
  Services, a U.S. Representative from Arkansas..................     4
Hon. Maxine Waters, Ranking Member of the Committee on Financial 
  Services, a U.S. Representative from California................    42

                               WITNESSES

Hon. Paul Compton, Managing Partner, Compton Jones Dresher, LLP..     5
    Prepared Statement...........................................     7
Dr. Emily Hamilton, Senior Research Fellow and Director of the 
  Urbanity Project, Mercatus Center at George Mason University...    13
    Prepared Statement...........................................    15
Mr. Buddy Hughes, Chairman of the Board, National Association of 
  Home Builders..................................................    20
    Prepared Statement...........................................    22
Ms. Tara Vasicek, City Administrator, City of Columbus, Nebraska.    36
    Prepared Statement...........................................    38
Ms. Nikitra Bailey, Executive Vice President, National Fair 
  Housing Alliance (NFAA)........................................    43
    Prepared Statement...........................................    45

                                APPENDIX

                   MATERIALS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

Hon. Mike Flood:
    Habitat for Humanity.........................................    98
    National Multifamily Housing Council (NMHC) and National 
      Apartment Association (NAA)................................   104
Hon. French Hill:
    Council of Economic Advisers' Report from January 2024.......   106
Hon. Maxine Waters:
    National Low Income Housing Coalition........................   137
    National Association of Housing and Redevelopment Officials 
      (NAHRO)....................................................   144
    National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 
      (NAACP) Legal Defense Fund (LDF)...........................   148
    National Association of Realtors.............................   151
    Letters: Department of Housing and Urban Development
      Department of Government Efficiency Termination Letter.....   171
      Housing Discrimination Complaint...........................   173
    Council of State Community Development Agencies (COSCDA).....   174
    Center for Responsible Lending (CRL) and the National 
      Consumer Law Center (NCLC).................................   177
    The National Community Stabilization Trust (NCST)............   180
Hon. Sylvia R. Garcia:
    National Association of Home Builders: 25 percent Tariff Hike 
      on Canadian and Mexican Goods Harms Housing Affordability 
      Dated February 1...........................................   185
    National Association of Home Builders: Trump Imposes 
      Additional 25 percent Tariff on Canadian Softwood Lumber...   187
    Houston Chronicle: Texas Wants More Affordable Housing. 
      Insurance Costs are Getting in the Way.....................   190
Ms. Nikitra Bailey:
    National Fair Housing Alliance Federal Grants Received 
      During/Since FY2022........................................   196
Hon. Eamnual Cleaver:
    Defense Credit Union Council (DCUC)..........................   197
    National Association of Residential Property Management 
      (NARPM)....................................................   199
    The National Community Development Association (NCDA)........   201

                 RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD

Written responses to questions for the record from Representative 
  Mike Flood
    Hon. Paul Compton............................................   206
Written responses to questions for the record from Representative 
  Monica De La Cruz
    Hon. Paul Compton............................................   207
    Mr. Buddy Hughes.............................................   208
    Dr. Emily Hamilton...........................................   209
Written responses to questions for the record from Representative 
  Maxine Waters
    Dr. Emily Hamilton...........................................   211
    Hon. Paul Compton............................................   212
    Mr. Buddy Hughes.............................................   213
    Ms. Tara Vasicek.............................................   214
Written responses to questions for the record from Representative 
  Troy Downing
    Hon. Paul Compton............................................   215

                              LEGISLATION

H.R.----, the Identifying Regulatory Barriers to Housing Supply 
  Act............................................................   216
H.R.----, the Housing for America's Middle Class Act of 2025.....   222
H.R.----, the Housing Supply and Innovation Frameworks Act.......   224









 
                 BUILDING OUR FUTURE: INCREASING HOUSING
                            SUPPLY IN AMERICA

                              ----------                              


                         Tuesday, March 4, 2025

             U.S. House of Representatives,
             Subcommittee on Housing and Insurance,
                           Committee on Financial Services,
                                                    Washington, DC.

    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:18 p.m., in 
room 2128, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Mike Flood 
[chairman of the subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Flood, Rose, Timmons, Garbarino, 
Fitzgerald, Lawler, De La Cruz, Downing, Hill, Cleaver, Tlaib, 
Torres, Garcia, Williams of Georgia, Bynum, and Waters.
    Also present: Representative Liccardo.
    Chairman Flood. The Subcommittee on Housing and Insurance 
will come to order.
    Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a 
recess of the committee at any time.
    This hearing is titled ``Building Our Future: Increasing 
Housing Supply in America.''
    Without objection, all members will have 5 legislative days 
within which to submit extraneous materials to the chair for 
inclusion in the record.
    Chairman Flood. I now recognize myself for 4 minutes for an 
opening statement.

     OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE FLOOD, CHAIRMAN OF THE 
 SUBCOMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND INSURANCE, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE 
                         FROM NEBRASKA

    I am pleased to call to order the first Housing and 
Insurance Subcommittee hearing of the 119th Congress.
    Before discussing the subject of this hearing, I would like 
to welcome my friends on both sides of the aisle to this 
important subcommittee. The jurisdiction of the Housing and 
Insurance Committee touches every single congressional 
district, and I look forward to working with each of you on the 
issues that affect your constituents.
    I am a straight shooter. I do not hide the ball, and I will 
do my best to be fair to everyone on this subcommittee 
regardless of political affiliation.
    With that, let me pivot to an introduction of today's 
hearing. The issue we are exploring today is one that touches 
the lives of every single American, both in the towering cities 
on the coasts and in rural communities in the middle of the 
country, and that is the cost of housing.
    According to the National Association of Realtors, the 
median annual existing home price in 2024 was up 69 percent 
relative to 1995, and that is adjusted for inflation.
    This housing affordability challenge affects everyone. 
Young people saving up to buy their first home are renting for 
longer. Middle-class workers are struggling to make the rent, 
and Americans today feel less secure about their financial 
future because their bills are going up.
    When it comes to housing affordability, I hope this hearing 
will help contextualize this problem and give members of our 
subcommittee an opportunity to explore root causes.
    Let us start with a few things we can rule out. The problem 
is not that people are not making enough money. Wages are up 
over the last several years. The problem is not that people are 
not saving enough money. Savings exploded during the 
coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic and have only 
recently trended back downwards. It is also not that the 
government does not spend enough money on Federal programs. We 
are coming off a period with historic levels of government 
spending.
    The reason for high housing costs is simple: We are not 
building enough homes in this country to meet the demand. Some 
estimates put the gap between housing supply and demand at 
around 3.85 million units nationwide. Some put it even higher, 
at more than 5 million units.
    The root of that housing supply problem is a little 
trickier to pin down to just one cause. Regulatory barriers at 
the State and local level, like zoning and land-use policies, 
play a large role in making it more difficult to create more 
housing in places that need it. Another driver is the actual 
cost of materials and the cost of labor used to build a home.
    For projects that use Federal dollars, either through Low-
Income Housing Tax Credit or funds from a Federal program like 
the HOME Investment Partnership, those dollars are not free. 
They come with regulatory requirements at the Federal level 
that can make it more challenging to actually give taxpayers 
the best bang for their buck.
    Finally, we can explore whether there are any challenges 
related to the financing side that keeps projects from getting 
off the ground.
    I am excited to dig deeper into each of these issues today, 
and I look forward to our witnesses' testimony.
    With that, I yield back.
    Chairman Flood. The chair now recognizes the ranking member 
of the subcommittee, Mr. Cleaver, for 4 minutes for an opening 
statement.

 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. EMANUEL CLEAVER, RANKING MEMBER OF 
       THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND INSURANCE, A U.S. 
                  REPRESENTATIVE FROM MISSOURI

    Mr. Cleaver. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and I look forward to 
working with you. I am absolutely elated over the fact that we 
have issues that we both would like to resolve in these key 
positions. Thank you very much for your receptivity.
    This is the first hearing of the Subcommittee on Housing 
and Insurance in the 119th Congress.
    Our Nation is struggling with a fair-housing and 
affordable-housing crisis. In 2023, Americans filed a record-
breaking number of fair-housing complaints.
    At the same time, the cost of renting and purchasing a home 
has reached historic heights. Since 2019, rents in the United 
States have increased 46.8 percent. The average sales price of 
a home now exceeds half-a-million dollars.
    When a typical family sits at the table to pencil out how 
they will get by for the next month in Missouri or in 
Nebraska--or anywhere else, for that matter--housing is the 
single largest expense.
    I appreciate your willingness, Mr. Chairman, to engage with 
me on what are clearly commonsense solutions. It is my hope 
that we pass bipartisan legislation into law that would improve 
the quality of life for American families. I support the 
Identifying Regulatory Barriers to Housing Supply Act, under 
consideration today.
    Local jurisdictions are rightfully asking the Federal 
Government for funding and resources to tackle this housing 
crisis. It is responsible to ask them to assess how local land-
use policies are limiting the impact of the Federal funding and 
driving up the very costs they are trying to reduce.
    Some jurisdictions have made developing more housing 
illegal or cost prohibitive. Others are doing an incredible job 
figuring out how to optimize their zoning laws and are 
welcoming innovation in design, technology, and construction.
    I also support the Housing Supply and Innovation Framework 
Act under consideration, which would require Department of 
Housing and Urban Development (HUD) to study, develop, and 
publish guidelines and best practices for local zoning.
    These are constructive pieces of legislation. Zoning 
reforms are absolutely necessary but not sufficient by 
themselves. Senator Elizabeth Warren, Senator Raphael Warnock, 
and I have introduced the American Housing and Economic 
Mobility Act. This legislation would generate 3 million new 
housing units and bring down rents. This is also a constructive 
approach.
    It goes without saying that reported efforts to decimate 
HUD funding, programs, or staff are not constructive. It would 
also not be constructive for Congress to pass housing 
legislation that HUD does not have the capacity or the 
resources to implement.
    Yesterday, I joined Ranking Member Waters and others at HUD 
to elevate current concerns about executive actions. This 
demonstration followed reports that the Department terminated 
hundreds of probationary employees, reportedly plans to slash 
the Department's workforce by one-half, and has already 
withheld funding serving families, seniors, and people with 
disabilities.
    The congressional Public Housing Caucus has also sent a 
letter to Secretary Turner on how cuts would exacerbate the 
housing crisis and increase waste, fraud, and abuse. We have 
requested an urgent meeting with the Secretary. Secretary 
Turner testified to Congress that he would run a transparent 
and accountable Department.
    Thank you again, Mr. Chairman. I look forward to this 
hearing today and look forward to working with you. I yield 
back.
    Chairman Flood. Thank you, Mr. Cleaver.
    The chair now recognizes the chairman of the full 
committee, Mr. Hill, for 1 minute.

  STATEMENT OF HON. FRENCH HILL, CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE ON 
    FINANCIAL SERVICES, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM ARKANSAS

    Chairman Hill. I want to thank my friend from Nebraska, 
Chairman Flood, for assuming the gavel on this important 
subcommittee, our Housing and Insurance Subcommittee.
    Mr. Flood has been long interested, as you can tell in his 
opening statement, in rolling up his sleeves and doing the hard 
work first to understand the challenges before reaching out in 
a bipartisan way and looking for solutions. This hearing is a 
great example of that approach.
    The typical family median cost of a Federal Housing 
Administration ensured (FHA-ensured) home in my home State of 
Arkansas is $175,000. In 2020, a 30-year mortgage rate was 3.1 
percent. With a 10-percent down payment, that family could be 
in that house for $680 a month. Now, after Biden's inflation, 
the mortgage rate is 6.8 percent, and that monthly payment is 
now over $1,000. Plus, in Arkansas, the average homeowner's 
insurance rates were $3,300 in 2023. Now they are up 9 percent 
to $3,600.
    Housing affordability is important, not only in Arkansas 
and Missouri and Nebraska but across the country. I look 
forward to working with my colleagues.
    I yield back to the chair.
    Chairman Flood. The chairman yields back.
    Today, we welcome the testimony of Hon. Paul Compton, a 
Managing Partner at Compton Jones Dresher, LLP.
    We welcome Dr. Emily Hamilton, who is a Senior Research 
Fellow and director of the Urbanity Project at the Mercatus 
Center at George Mason University.
    We welcome Mr. Buddy Hughes, who is the Chairman of the 
Board with the National Association of Home Builders.
    We welcome Ms. Tara Vasicek, who is the City Administrator 
for the City of Columbus, Nebraska, and we welcome Ms. Nikitra 
Bailey, the Executive Vice President with the National Fair 
Housing Alliance.
    We want to thank each of you for taking the time to be 
here. Each of you will be recognized for 5 minutes to give an 
oral presentation of your testimony. Without objection, your 
written statements will be made part of the record.
    I would add that when the Ranking Member of the full 
Financial Services Committee, Ms. Waters, arrives, we will take 
a short break and ask her to make remarks for 1 minute.
    Hon. Compton, you are now recognized for 5 minutes for your 
oral remarks.

STATEMENT OF HON. PAUL COMPTON, MANAGING PARTNER, COMPTON JONES 
                          DRESHER, LLP

    Hon. Compton. Thank you, Chairman Flood, Ranking Member 
Cleaver, Chairman Hill, members of the subcommittee. Thank you 
for this opportunity to testify and share my perspectives on 
increasing the housing supply.
    I have practiced law at the intersection of real estate, 
banking, tax, and affordable housing for more than 30 years. 
After my Senate confirmation in a bipartisan vote in 2017, I 
served as General Counsel of HUD under Secretary Ben Carson. 
Since that time, I have returned to private practice, focusing 
on affordable housing.
    In July 2024, I had the privilege of testifying before this 
subcommittee concerning cutting through government red tape in 
order to increase the supply and affordability of housing. I 
appreciate this opportunity to follow up on that.
    In that testimony, I expressed my view that over-
regulation, particularly at the State and local levels, has 
driven up housing prices. The biggest part of the solution, in 
my view, lies in restoring checks and balances at those same 
levels to curb the continuous growth in housing regulation over 
the past 40 years.
    Numerous studies establish several facts. The real cost of 
housing construction has not meaningfully increased over the 
past 40 years when adjusted for inflation. The real cost of 
housing has substantially outstripped inflation over that 
period. The core components of that excess cost are land costs 
driven by land-use regulation, the direct cost of regulation, 
and the indirect cost of regulation, raising risk of creating 
homes.
    From community to community, and indeed from Federal agency 
to Federal agency, there is great variation in the nature of 
regulation. How Massachusetts regulates housing is different 
from California, which is certainly different from Texas. 
Moreover, how HUD regulates housing is different from how the 
United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) regulates 
housing.
    One result of this is, the housing market, particularly for 
single-family and smaller multifamily developments, is 
incredibly localized in nature. Thus, I believe that the first 
conclusion for this committee is that there are not one or even 
two or three problems but there are many, many.
    I believe that we must first view this systemically--that 
is, how can our overall governing structures be adjusted so 
that there is not a continuing bias to more regulation?
    Second, we must look aggressively at each opportunity to 
pare back regulations.
    In the Federal context, I can give one example of this. 
Under HUD's National Environmental Policy Act regulations, 
nearly every program, from FHA loans to Community Development 
Block Grant (CDBG) to HOME Program grants, requires a 
governmental environmental review and notification process for 
the public. There are thousands, if not tens of thousands, of 
these each year.
    Yet, over the last 6 years, as this process has delayed 
countless projects by many months and cost millions of dollars, 
it has resulted in a grand total of four environmental impact 
statements. We simply are regulating in a way that is excessive 
in light of the benefits that it is producing.
    In many cases, as I noted, it is not just merely the cost 
of red tape and regulation, but it is the increase in risk.
    There are several other elements that I would like to 
specifically call out.
    As I noted, first of all, it is eliminating most or perhaps 
all HOPE HUD programs from the coverage of the National 
Environmental Policy Act (NEPA). Under the revised definition 
contained in the Fiscal Responsibility Act of 2023, they simply 
do not meet the definition of a major Federal action. This does 
not mean that any of the substantive environmental requirements 
change, but only that the bureaucratic process of notice and 
review does.
    Second, make Federal property available for housing. This 
is more difficult than it sounds, but there is one clear and 
easy way to do it, and that is through the authority of the 
Department of Defense to enter into enhanced-use leases, which 
provide ground leases that could then be combined with FHA 
financing to create housing in these locations.
    We looked, under Secretary Carson, many times at using 
Federal land for housing, and it is incredibly challenging to 
do that, but the military, through its Enhanced-Use Lease 
Program, can easily do that if we can just get HUD and the 
Department of Defense (DOD) on the same page.
    Next, I would reconsider the scope of limitations caused by 
habitat restrictions--in particular, the northern long-eared 
bat. This covers almost the entire eastern United States and 
causes many, many delays in projects.
    Mr. Chairman, thank you. I will be delighted to answer 
questions on this and other topics.

    [The prepared statement of Hon. Compton follows:]

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Chairman Flood. Thank you, Hon. Compton.
    Dr. Hamilton, you are now recognized for 5 minutes for your 
oral remarks.

STATEMENT OF EMILY HAMILTON SENIOR RESEARCH FELLOW AND DIRECTOR 
   OF THE URBANITY PROJECT, MERCATUS CENTER AT GEORGE MASON 
                           UNIVERSITY

    Dr. Hamilton. Thank you, Chair Flood, Ranking Member 
Cleaver, and members of the subcommittee. I am Emily Hamilton, 
a Senior Research Fellow at the Mercatus Center at George Mason 
University.
    Outdated land-use and building regulations that restrict 
housing supply and drive up costs are a key driver of the 
affordability problems we are discussing today.
    While State and local governments played a primary role in 
shaping these policies, Federal action matters too. In some 
cases, Federal policies directly limit housing supply, and, in 
others, Congress can provide leadership by supporting State and 
local reformers working to modernize outdated rules.
    Today, I will highlight three areas where Congress can help 
State and local policymakers learn from what is working and 
repeal its own rules that are standing in the way of housing 
construction: first, reforming land-use regulations; second, 
expanding opportunities for siting manufactured housing; third, 
introducing improved analysis into the building code 
development process.
    To the first area, reforming land-use regulations.
    Rules that require each housing unit to use a lot of land 
place a high floor on the cost of building, but we have many 
examples of reforms that facilitate improved affordability. For 
example, Houston reduced the amount of land required for each 
new single-family house by two-thirds. As a result of this 
policy change, 80,000 houses have been built on small lots and 
Houston is the most affordable large Sun Belt metro.
    Congress could facilitate knowledge-sharing by directing 
HUD to publish model policies for facilitating new, less-
expensive housing construction based on proven land-use reforms 
like this. It could also lead, by example, to repealing the 
Height of Buildings Act for D.C., which squeezes apartments out 
of the city's central business district.
    To the second area, expanding opportunities for siting 
manufactured housing.
    Manufactured housing is the least expensive way to build a 
new home in the U.S. today. However, many localities are 
choosing not to zone land for new manufactured housing.
    Congress Members could sing the praises of policymakers in 
States including Maryland, Montana, and Nebraska who have 
passed laws requiring their localities to allow manufactured 
housing to be used on any lot where site-built housing would be 
allowed, as well as policymakers in States like Arkansas and 
Texas who have banned aesthetic requirements that may make 
manufactured housing impractical.
    Federal statute currently requires every manufactured house 
to sit on a permanent steel chassis, even if the house is going 
to be attached to a foundation, never to be moved after its 
delivery from the factory. Congressional reform could improve 
the affordability of manufactured housing by removing this 
permanent-steel-chassis requirement, reducing costs and opening 
up opportunities for more flexible use of manufactured units.
    Finally, introducing economic analysis into the building 
code development process.
    While HUD's code for manufactured housing provides the most 
economical way to build new housing today, most new housing is 
built according to a State or local building code. In the U.S., 
these codes are based on model codes published by the 
International Code Council.
    A 2022 survey found that just those building-code 
regulations adopted in the past 10 years make up 11 percent of 
the cost of building new apartment buildings.
    Americans deserve building codes that achieve high safety 
standards while remaining cost-effective, but the model codes 
that provide the foundation of U.S. building codes are not 
based on rigorous analysis.
    HUD could help by creating model codes for areas where 
State and local policymakers are expressing interest in reform, 
including a code for single-stair multifamily buildings up to 
six stories and a version of the International Residential Code 
that could cover up to six units.
    To conclude, the heavy lifting in zoning and building-code 
reform must come from State and local policymakers, but 
Congress can aid these efforts by shining a light on successful 
policies and repealing its own rules that are standing in the 
way of more housing at better prices.
    Thank you.

    [The prepared statement of Dr. Hamilton follows:]

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Chairman Flood. Thank you, Dr. Hamilton.
    Mr. Hughes, you are now recognized for 5 minutes for your 
oral remarks.

  STATEMENT OF BUDDY HUGHES, CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD, NATIONAL 
                  ASSOCIATION OF HOME BUILDERS

    Mr. Hughes. Thank you, Chairman Flood, Ranking Member 
Cleaver, Chairman Hill, and members of the subcommittee. Thank 
you for the opportunity to testify today on behalf of the 
National Association of Home Builders (NAHB).
    The United States is facing a fever-pitched housing 
affordability crisis. Nearly 77 percent of U.S. households 
cannot afford just the median price of a new single-family 
home.
    Even small price increases have sharp effects. Every time 
$1,000 gets added to the cost of a home, a new home, an 
additional 106,000 households are priced out of the market.
    What is fueling this unaffordability is the rising 
construction costs, which make it increasingly difficult for 
builders to produce housing that is attainable for buyers and 
renters, and lack of supply of over 1.5 million housing units.
    The headwinds placing pressure on builders can be boiled 
down to five categories that we call the ``five L's'': lending, 
lots, labor, lumber, and laws.
    Last year, NAHB released a 10-point plan to tame shelter 
inflation and ease the housing affordability crisis. We must 
work together to tackle these issues to ensure that all 
Americans have access to affordable housing.
    On lending, a lack of capital, particularly for small 
builders, is a key constraint on supply. The Acquisition, 
Development and Construction (AD&C) loan is one of the most 
heavily used financing tools in a builder's credit toolbox. 
Unfortunately, AD&C credit is tightening. Home builders rely on 
community banks for these loan products, but fewer banks mean 
fewer opportunities for a competitive interest rate.
    In addition to AD&C, builders utilize and rely on several 
Federal programs to help them supply new homes and apartments. 
These programs should be preserved and strengthened through 
practical regulatory processes.
    The availability of building lots is a major issue limiting 
housing production. Many metro areas face a shortage of 
developed land. Zoning laws and land-use restrictions make it 
difficult to convert undeveloped land into housing. Passing the 
chairman's Identifying Regulatory Barriers to Housing Supply 
Act will help policymakers identify housing barriers that 
prevent the production of more supply.
    Our Nation's skilled labor force cannot meet our housing 
needs. Month to month, there are over 300,000 open positions. 
We must support programs like Job Corps and legislation like 
the Creating Opportunities for New Skills Training at Rural and 
Undeserved Colleges and Trade Schools (CONSTRUCTS) Act to help 
prepare young adults for rewarding careers in construction and 
other essential trades.
    The cost and availability of materials, particularly 
lumber, significantly affect housing production. While lumber 
prices have fluctuated, supply chain instability and tariffs on 
imported materials continue to create uncertainty for builders. 
Boosting our domestic supply of lumber and negotiating a long-
term softwood lumber agreement with Canada can help stabilize 
this volatile market, giving builders greater price stability.
    We respect regulation aimed at health, safety, and welfare. 
However, the HUD/USDA minimum energy standards, using the 2021 
International Energy Conservation Code (IECC), offers minimal 
cost savings to homeowners. Instead, this mandate significantly 
increases housing costs, especially in the entry-level market, 
thereby limiting access to mortgage financing and 
disadvantaging buyers.
    HUD and USDA should assist vulnerable home buyers and 
renters, not price them out of the market. This policy will 
deter new construction at a time when increasing the housing 
supply is crucial to lowering shelter inflation cost.
    Thank you again for this opportunity. The five L's--
lending, lots, labor, lumber, and laws--are significant 
headwinds facing the residential construction industry, but if 
we partner together to address each factor, then we will be 
able to create the housing supply that all Americans need.
    Thank you again.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Hughes follows:]

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]    
    
    Chairman Flood. Thank you, Mr. Hughes.
    Ms. Tara Vasicek, you are now recognized for 5 minutes for 
your oral remarks.

    STATEMENT OF TARA VASICEK, CITY ADMINISTRATOR, CITY OF 
                       COLUMBUS, NEBRASKA

    Ms. Vasicek. Good afternoon, Chairman Flood, Ranking Member 
Cleaver, and subcommittee members. Thank you for the 
opportunity to testify today and provide a local perspective on 
the nationwide housing crisis.
    I am the City Administrator for the city of Columbus, 
Nebraska. Columbus has made significant efforts to increase 
housing production, recognizing a lack of available housing 
directly impacts our economic growth, workforce attraction and 
retention, as well as quality of life.
    Through strategic initiatives, we have increased housing 
development significantly. However, despite our proactive 
approach and continued commitment to housing, the issue 
remains: Housing production is not meeting demand.
    A few of the actions we have taken locally include removing 
locally controlled regulatory barriers, direct investment in 
housing development, and utilizing and leveraging all of the 
beneficial tools and incentives available to us.
    Over the past 5 years, Columbus has undertaken multiple 
updates to our land-development regulations to remove barriers 
to housing production. Many cities have regulations that limit 
housing density; Columbus does not. Accessory dwelling units, 
mixed-use types are allowed by right in all zones. We have 
changed our codes to make in-fill development and adaptive 
reuse easy to complete.
    Our local permitting process is efficient. All housing 
permits are issued within 2 weeks of the city receiving a 
completed application.
    Currently, the city is leading a workforce housing 
development subdivision. There are currently 325 housing units 
of various densities being constructed--six times the units 
produced annually a short time ago.
    The other major financial tool used for this project: tax 
increment financing, or TIF, similar to tax abatement in other 
States. TIF allows for the capture of up to 15 years of 
property taxes paid on the project's improvements to use as 
funding to build out the project. TIF is the most efficient 
tool available to Nebraska communities for housing development.
    In addition to TIF, the city allocates a portion of local 
sales tax to economic development. Primarily, this funding goes 
to housing. We have also been successful in securing many 
grants. We currently have a significant revolving loan fund, 
which acts as short-term gap financing for workforce housing 
projects.
    Columbus is very strategic when deciding what State and 
Federal grants we pursue. Many grants introduce excessive 
regulatory hurdles, leading to time delays, increased project 
costs, and long-term management challenges. These factors also 
negatively impact construction because they often limit the 
number of builders who are willing to participate. In a housing 
market as dire as the current, builders are going to pick the 
path of least resistance.
    Despite our efforts to increase housing production, 
significant obstacles remain which continue to impede 
development. Locally, rising land and infrastructure costs are 
a significant challenge. At the State and Federal levels, 
complex regulations add additional time and expense.
    The Federal regulation that we hear the most negativity 
about related to cost is the Environmental Protection Agency's 
(EPA's) stormwater management policies, which add hundreds of 
thousands of dollars to subdivisions.
    CDBG is a Federal program the city of Columbus would like 
to utilize more for housing, but the beneficiary requirements 
often prevent us from seeking this funding. In order to provide 
affordable housing to individuals earning 50 to 80 percent Area 
Median Income (AMI), substantial incentives in addition to CDBG 
have to be provided.
    The most affordable housing in any city will always be its 
existing housing stock, not new construction. Affordable new 
housing units can only be built because of substantial 
incentives and subsidies. Supporting workforce housing with 
CDBG could be very successful. By expanding market-rate housing 
in growing cities like Columbus, you will also free up more 
attainable and affordable housing options, which CDBG aims to 
support.
    Finally, I would ask you to consider providing more funding 
opportunities for communities like Columbus who have reformed 
local regulations and are being proactive. By prioritizing 
funding for communities which have embraced reform, you can 
accelerate housing production and ensure local initiatives are 
met with the necessary resources to succeed.
    I strongly believe, today, housing is one of the greatest 
limiting factors to continued economic prosperity for our 
Nation. Please join Columbus and so many other cities in 
thinking more critically about how we can all solve this 
vitally important issue.
    Thank you for your time, attention, and this opportunity.

    [The prepared statement of Ms. Vasicek follows:]

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Chairman Flood. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Bailey, you are now recognized for 5 minutes for your 
oral remarks.
    While we work on your microphone, we are going to recognize 
the Ranking Member of the full Financial Services Committee for 
her opening remarks of 1 minute, and we will work with Ms. 
Bailey's microphone to get it fixed.

    STATEMENT OF HON. MAXINE WATERS, RANKING MEMBER OF THE 
  COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM 
                           CALIFORNIA

    Ms. Waters. Thank you very much.
    Well, Committee Republicans claim to care about increasing 
housing supply, yet the Trump Administration's policies only 
make housing more expensive. Today, Trump imposed taxes on 
imports from Canada and Mexico that will increase housing costs 
and has gutted enforcement of consumer protection and civil 
rights in housing.
    House Republicans are doing nothing as the Department of 
Government Efficiency (DOGE) ketamine clan infiltrates the 
Nation's key housing agency. So far, Musk has stolen funding 
from communities, illegally terminated staff, and accessed 
confidential data, including details about sexual assault 
against women.
    All of this paves the way toward their end goal, evict 
America to put America's housing in the hands of private equity 
investors.
    I urge Republicans to man up and hold Trump and co-
President Musk accountable and immediately call Secretary 
Turner up to testify.
    With that, I ask unanimous consent to submit four 
statements into the record from the following organizations: 
the National Income Housing Coalition, the National Association 
of Housing and Redevelopment Officials, the NAACP Legal Defense 
Fund, and National Association of Realtors.
    I also request unanimous consent to submit two letters from 
the Department of Housing and Urban Development. The first is a 
notice to a grantee that their fair-housing grant has been 
canceled at the direction of Elon Musk's DOGE----
    Chairman Flood. Without objection----
    Ms. Waters [continuing]. stating that the civil-rights 
funding, quote, ``no longer effectuates the program goals or 
agency priorities.''
    There is more, but I am going to yield back my time because 
I just want to say: Republicans, if you want to do housing, you 
have to get rid of Elon Musk.
    Chairman Flood. Your time has expired.
    Without objection.

    [The information referred to can be found in the appendix.]

    Chairman Flood. Ms. Bailey, is your microphone working?
    Ms. Bailey, why do you and Ms. Vasicek switch seats for 
just a moment?
    There we go.
    Ms. Bailey, you are recognized for your opening statement, 
your oral statement of 5 minutes.

STATEMENT OF NIKITRA BAILEY, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, NATIONAL 
                     FAIR HOUSING ALLIANCE

    Ms. Bailey. Thank you.
    Chair Flood, Ranking Member Cleaver, Chair Hill, Ranking 
Member Waters, and other distinguished members of the 
subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify during 
today's hearing on the need to increase the Nation's supply of 
fair and affordable housing for everyday people, including the 
frontline workers such as teachers, nurses, firefighters, 
police officers, and others who sacrificed their lives during 
the COVID-19 crisis to help our economy remain afloat.
    I am Nikitra Bailey, Execute Vice President of the National 
Fair Housing Alliance (NFHA). NFHA leads the fair-housing 
movement, and we work to eliminate housing discrimination and 
ensure equitable housing opportunities for all people and 
communities. NFHA also ensures and represents the voices of 
over 200 local, nonprofit fair-housing agencies throughout the 
United States.
    Our Nation is in a fair-and affordable-housing crisis 
impacting millions. The actions of President Trump's executive 
orders attempting to ban diversity, equity, inclusion, and 
accessibility; punitively and haphazardly throwing together a 
Federal funding freeze; and canceling almost half of funding 
for local, nonprofit fair-housing agencies throughout the 
United States have caused chaos, fear, insecurity, and 
dysfunction around the country.
    Instead of providing our Nation with practical solutions to 
address skyrocketing housing costs, a lack of affordable 
housing supply, increased complaints of housing discrimination, 
and technology's growing role in determining housing decisions 
with solutions, steps on the ladders of opportunity are being 
removed for everyday people. These haphazard executive actions 
will cause serious economic and personal injuries that will 
undermine our already-fragile housing market and our Nation.
    Housing is fundamental to the American Dream, and people 
want elected leaders to quickly implement solutions so that 
they can ensure they can fairly access opportunity and share in 
our Nation's prosperity.
    People are seeking opportunities and solutions that would 
drive down the rising cost of housing and provide fair-market 
risk, expand fair access to mortgage credit in underserved 
communities, reduce homeowners' insurance costs, and produce 
the development of over 5 million affordable-housing units.
    Diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility are 
synonymous with hard work, fairness, merit, and standards of 
excellence. They are a cornerstone of our Nation's Constitution 
and civil-rights laws and help to ensure compliance with our 
Nation's robust anti-discrimination laws.
    In fact, many of these concepts are codified in our civil-
rights laws and regulations as well as the Constitution. 
Congress established fair housing as the national policy of the 
United States with the passage of the Fair Housing Act 
following the horrific assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King, 
Jr. The landmark legislation provides two promises: the right 
for all people to access housing free of discrimination; and 
the creation and inclusion of inclusive vibrant communities 
with life-affirming amenities everyone needs to thrive.
    The President cannot upend our country's national policy, 
the Constitution, or civil-rights laws with executive orders.
    Congress must act quickly to make equitable housing 
investments that promote financial inclusion and stimulate 
economic growth for everyone. As housing continues to drive 
inflation, the Federal Reserve Board is powerless to handle 
housing inflation.
    A housing market in which all people cannot participate 
fairly without regard to race, color, national origin, 
religion, gender, familial status, or disability is a broken 
market, both economically and morally.
    The Housing Prices Response Act, sponsored by Ranking 
Member Waters, provides a sensible path forward. It includes 
$150 billion in relief for the Nation's fair-and affordable-
housing crisis to ensure people living in urban, rural, and 
suburban communities' housing needs are met.
    Increased support and intervention from our Federal 
Government is needed, not a withdrawal from basic civil rights. 
Fair-housing laws improve people's lives and the communities in 
which they live, especially seniors needing to remain housed, 
women who have been battered and are seeking safety from 
abusers, and people with disabilities who use fair-housing laws 
to obtain accessible housing so they can properly use their 
kitchens and bathrooms.
    They also strengthen our economy and make the Nation more 
prosperous. America is at its best when united and relentlessly 
pursuing a country where everyone--and we mean everyone--
regardless of their background, has a fair shot at reaching the 
American Dream.
    Thank you for the opportunity. I look forward to answering 
questions.

    [The prepared statement of Ms. Bailey follows:]

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Chairman Flood. Thank you, Ms. Bailey.
    We will now turn to member questions. The chair now 
recognizes himself for 5 minutes for questioning.
    First of all, I want to say to Ms. Vasicek, thank you for 
your testimony today, and thank you for telling the story of 
the workforce housing challenges in Columbus, Nebraska.
    Let me tell you about this community. Twenty-four thousand 
people live there. It has a huge manufacturing base that pulls 
from well over 50,000 in the region. Last February, this time 
last year, they had 1,200 open jobs; unemployment is at 1 
percent. The number one limiting factor to filling those jobs 
was a lack of housing--a lack of housing.
    If you are a mother and a father, and you are both working 
at a meat-packing plant, in Cargill, and you are working 50 
hours a week, you deserve a home. You deserve a home that you 
can own, in a neighborhood where your kids can walk to school 
and you can take them to the park. We have all of those 
amenities, but we do not have houses. It is not just a housing 
issue; it is an economic development issue.
    Ms. Vasicek, do you have any examples you can share of how 
a lack of housing stock prevented private investment into the 
community, whether it be from a company locating operations in 
Columbus or expanding operations there?
    Ms. Vasicek. I hear about--at every economic-development-
related visit, meeting, I hear about this. Whether it is a 
current business or a business that we are trying to attract to 
Columbus, the number one topic is housing, followed quickly by 
workforce.
    They go hand-in-hand, in our opinion. We cannot attract 
more workforce if they have nowhere to live. I have heard of 
countless stories of businesses hiring people on and then they 
end up turning the job down because they cannot find housing in 
Columbus.
    Chairman Flood. One of the things I really want to unpack 
here is that Columbus took its own sales tax money that it gets 
through the State of Nebraska, its local share, its local 
option, and you actually went out, bought land, put the 
infrastructure into the ground, and made those lots available 
to reduce the risk home builders would have so that they could 
deliver a better-priced home to somebody in Columbus.
    Is that right?
    Ms. Vasicek. That is correct.
    Chairman Flood. There is an example of a city government in 
a rural area using existing sales tax revenue. Imagine if we 
did this for cities like it across the country, where the 
builder could come in, the infrastructure is in the ground. The 
benefit of that government funding ultimately accrues to the 
new homeowner, building equity and helping them get started.
    The other thing that I think is very important here is that 
we should be building these homes in the middle of the town, 
where there are parks and schools because kids learn better in 
great neighborhoods.
    All right. Let us go to Dr. Hamilton.
    You focused your testimony on zoning and land-use policies 
at the local level. What should the Federal Government do in 
these areas while respecting the authority of localities to 
make their own specific policies?
    Dr. Hamilton. Thank you, Chair Flood.
    That is an important question. While some have proposed 
more radical interventions, I think this area needs to stay 
squarely in the hands of State and local government officials. 
As we are hearing from constituents in so many parts of the 
country, this is a huge problem for American families, and 
there is bipartisan agreement that these rules need to get 
reformed.
    I think there is an important knowledge-sharing role and 
use of the bully pulpit available to Members of Congress to 
point to proven examples of reforms that are making meaningful 
differences in housing supply and affordability.
    Chairman Flood. Ms. Vasicek, you talked a little bit about 
the environmental requirements affecting a small community like 
Columbus.
    What is the real barrier there? What kind of barriers have 
you seen with these environmental regulations?
    Ms. Vasicek. The regulations I spoke of are specifically 
related to stormwater. We have, in the last 10 years, been 
required to--any project that is over an acre, disturbs more 
than an acre of site area, has to go through very stringent 
stormwater management regulations and permanent infrastructure 
improvements so that is that engineering cost, that 
understanding those regulations, and then building out those 
improvements is a considerable cost to developers.
    Chairman Flood. I do not have much time here, but one last 
question: Rehab funding for existing housing stock, how can it 
be used and what would you--is it something you care about?
    Ms. Vasicek. Oh, yes, it is something we care about a lot. 
We use our local option sales tax for that too. We could use 
considerably more for owner-occupied rehab.
    Our local option sales tax has----
    Chairman Flood. Regrettably, I have to stop you there.
    Ms. Vasicek. Okay.
    Chairman Flood. I am out of time, so I have to enforce it 
on myself. Thank you very much for being here.
    The gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Cleaver, the ranking 
member, is now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Cleaver. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Ms. Bailey--but I want to go to you, Ms. Vasicek. Your 
testimony was extremely significant to me because you talked 
about workforce housing, and you used tax increments--that is, 
using tax increment financing.
    I was a Mayor before I took this demotion, but I am curious 
about what was done in this community. Because when you use tax 
increment financing, when most cities--many cities, it ends up 
being that you draw the Tax Increment Financing (TIF) district, 
and most communities are going to try to draw at least a 
portion of that district, all of it, if possible, into some of 
the older parts of the city.
    Inevitably, if you go down into downtown Kansas City, you 
are going to see all kinds of new buildings going up in Kansas 
City, and they are receiving TIF. If you go into the older 
parts of the neighborhood, even though those areas have been 
designed as TIF districts, not one single project. I have been 
around the country, and I have seen similar things.
    I am just so interested in what Columbus did to attract 
housing TIFs.
    Ms. Vasicek. Specifically for the project that I referenced 
in my testimony, the city of Columbus, we work very hard to 
make connections with housing builders. Then we did--we made 
lots of connections, we built relationships and then we had 
individual meetings, and we put together a request for 
proposals. In that request, we targeted the types of housing 
that we needed--that we need in Columbus.
    Then we put that request for proposals out, and we sent it 
to almost 70 housing builders in our region. We received 10, 
maybe, really good submittals for our subdivision, and we 
selected 5 of those to build in our subdivision. That is who is 
building out this 25-acre project.
    Like Representative Flood said, we are very active in being 
involved with our community because our business community is 
absolutely requiring that of us. That is why we are more active 
than we ever have been.
    Mr. Cleaver. Thank you. I would not mind taking a view of 
what has been done. I think that is--if there is a magical way 
of getting interest, I am certainly interested in it. Thank you 
very much.
    Ms. Bailey, you mentioned in your testimony, that the 
administration has canceled, I think, almost half of the signed 
grants already. Is there anything you can tell us that would 
suggest that this can be recovered? Even if they--even if that 
is reversed today or next week, have we lost ground that may 
not be recoverable, or it may be years to recover?
    Ms. Bailey. Yes, sir. Thank you so much for the question.
    Many of the local fair-housing organizations in communities 
throughout the Nation, some of them rely on their HUD funding 
through the Fair Housing Initiatives Program, which is a 
program that was started under the Reagan Administration to 
provide fair-housing support in their communities-because some 
of these agencies rely 100 percent on the funding, some of 
those agencies will cease to operate. Some of them are already 
taking action to lay off staff and wind down.
    Some organizations that have not even received cancellation 
letters are also taking action now to wind down because they 
are afraid that they will get an abrupt notification. This came 
in the cover of dark, without any notice, so no one could 
prepare.
    In fact, it is an attack on a program that is one of HUD's 
most efficient programs--a program that has helped HUD 
efficiently address redlining, efficiently create solutions for 
appraisal bias, efficiently help survivors of domestic violence 
find safe and fair housing, so this will have harmful 
implications for people throughout the United States.
    Mr. Cleaver. Thank you very much.
    I have lots of questions, but my time is running out.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Flood. Thank you, Mr. Cleaver.
    The gentleman from Arkansas, Mr. Hill, the chair of the 
full committee, is now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Chairman Hill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you to our good panel for this important discussion 
about housing affordability--certainly a major topic for the 
suppliers of housing and the buyers of housing across our 
country.
    Mr. Hughes, I spent a good part of my life lending money to 
home builders before I was in Congress, and I have had good 
days and bad days in that business. I have finished some 
houses, as a banker, that I did not think I should have.
    You talked a lot about the credit environment and, of 
course, we have talked about price here extensively on it, and 
we think about that from a buyer's point of view--the mortgage 
market and the mortgage price that shot up so highly during the 
days of the Joe Biden inflation. I am curious about talking 
about the supply side.
    You mentioned specifically in your testimony about AD&C 
lending--acquisition, development, and construction lending--
something, as I say, I spent a lot of years in the middle of.
    What has happened--what is the biggest difference when you 
look back over your career? Are the lines of credit available 
to the members of the National Association of Home Builders? 
Are there fewer specs? More customs only? Are the terms and 
conditions tougher?
    Talk to me about the price and structure and terms for a 
home builder right now in the banking market.
    Mr. Hughes. Well, ``yes'' to all of those.
    We have all had those good days and bad days. Particularly 
what has been difficult for me is the fact that I am a very 
small operator, and it has made it difficult to get lending 
locally--at community banks, savings and loans. I have had some 
success with the Federal credit unions simply when I was turned 
down by the other banks in my area, so having more options, 
more----
    Chairman Hill. more choice for you is important. Like, in 
your own----
    Mr. Hughes. Absolutely.
    Chairman Hill [continuing]. community, if you had more 
competition, more bank choices, that would be a benefit to you. 
Is that what you are saying?
    Mr. Hughes. Absolutely, because our competition in housing 
are the national builders that have moved into our county, and 
we all know are publicly traded.
    Chairman Hill. Yes.
    Mr. Hughes. They do not have to go into the banks----
    Chairman Hill. No.
    Mr. Hughes [continuing]. and beg.
    Chairman Hill. Well, when I started my banking company in 
the late 1990s, there were 295 banks in Arkansas. Now there are 
70 banks in Arkansas. So----
    Mr. Hughes. Right.
    Chairman Hill [continuing]. I know a lot of our communities 
are hurt by that. That is why this committee has made a 
commitment that we want to make community banking, community 
financial institutions great again in this Congress by 
tailoring the regulatory burden so that these institutions are 
growing, that we actually have startup institutions, that the 
institutions that we have can access capital so that you can 
access capital.
    Has the structure of those loans also changed to where a 
builder, based on their financial statement and their track 
record, like, the number of loans, individual homes you can 
start under a line of credit, has that shrunk over the years as 
well?
    Mr. Hughes. I am not as familiar with that because I have 
not done a lot of spec building.
    Chairman Hill. Okay.
    Mr. Hughes. Most of the time, it has been custom building.
    Chairman Hill. Yep.
    Mr. Hughes. I have done some multifamily. One thing that 
has bitten me, in trying to do a rental project----
    Chairman Hill. Yep.
    Mr. Hughes [continuing]. that all of the banks in our 
city--wherein this was after the recession, when Federal 
regulators were clamping down on banks for having over their 
allowed percentage of rental property.
    Chairman Hill. Yes.
    Mr. Hughes. I was turned down by all of these banks because 
it was rental, and they were over their--it did not have 
anything to do with my project.
    Chairman Hill. That is right.
    I mean, this is what I think is so important for this 
committee to understand, that the impact of Dodd-Frank on 
community banking changed dramatically the risk that banks can 
take in very traditional local commercial businesses like 
building a home and that, if it is a rental property, it has 
supposedly higher risk than something that is owner-occupied in 
a custom home that you are going to build.
    Mr. Chairman, I would like to enter into the record the 
Council of Economic Advisers' report from January 2024 that 
talks about the burdens to housing affordability, and one of 
those is the pernicious impact of bank regulations since Dodd-
Frank.
    Chairman Flood. Without objection.

    [The information referred to can be found in the appendix:]
    Chairman Hill. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Flood. The gentleman yields back.
    The gentlewoman from California, Ranking Member Waters, is 
now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Waters. Thank you very much.
    Let us see. Mr. Hughes, President Trump has imposed a new 
25-percent tax on goods purchased by Americans and American 
businesses from Canada and Mexico, which is being characterized 
as, quote, the world's dumbest trade war, unquote.
    Your organization sent a letter to Trump noting that Canada 
and Mexico supply the United States with 25 percent of building 
materials and that his proposed tariffs would increase the cost 
of housing.
    Will your members be able to build more housing than they 
were yesterday with the added costs that come with paying these 
new import taxes?
    Mr. Hughes. Oh, absolutely not and we are very concerned 
about tariffs, because we import goods from Canada and Mexico 
and all over the globe, for that matter.
    I deal particularly in Canada with one product, and I have 
had to spend a lot of money ahead of time to keep from paying 
that tariff.
    We are very, very concerned.
    Ms. Waters. Well, let me just say that we are sitting here 
talking about ``regulations are the cause of a lack of housing 
in this country.'' That is absolutely ridiculous. As a matter 
of fact, we have a housing crisis, and we are here acting 
business-as-usual.
    We have 700,000 people sleeping on the street every night 
who are homeless. We have people with Section 8 vouchers 
waiting for years to try to get a place. We have middle-class 
people who cannot afford to pay 20 percent down on housing, and 
people paying more than 30 percent for housing.
    Yet, we have an administration that is sitting here talking 
about ``make building housing less safe, let us do something 
about regulations that get in the way of big bankers making 
more money, et cetera, et cetera.''
    This is all ridiculous. This does not make good sense. We 
have people, both in rural communities and urban communities, 
suffering.
    It is not regulation. You know who wants to get rid of 
regulations? The biggest banks and financial institutions in 
this country. They want to get us back to where we were before 
we had that meltdown in predatory lending.
    Well, we are going to fight against predatory lending. We 
are going to fight to build more affordable housing. We are 
going to fight against this administration who claims to care 
about housing but are here doing the business of the 
billionaires. It is not going to work. I am absolutely sick and 
tired of it.
    How much time do I have left? I have a lot more time. I am 
going to continue to talk.
    Let me just tell you, I want us to understand there is a 
crisis in this country. Unfortunately, Trump, who has been 
bought and paid for by Elon Musk, has given him the ability to 
go into our areas, all of our departments--the Treasury, the 
Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the Department of 
Education. Do you know they just closed Social Security offices 
in my district and many of the other districts? Now I add all 
of this to the housing crisis.
    I want to tell you that this country is not going to do any 
better by getting rid of regulations and talking about 
environmental requirements, being opposed to things that have 
kept our homes and our communities safe as we build housing.
    Well, I want everybody to, as we say--I do not kind of like 
the word--man up. It is time to face the crisis for what it is. 
Regulations that will be obliterated have nothing to do with us 
doing what we continue to try and do in HUD.
    I went over to HUD just yesterday with a letter to the new 
Secretary to ask him, what are they going to do? Why are they 
allowing Musk to get rid of over 50 percent of their employees 
there? They would not be able to respond to the developers who 
want to build housing.
    We need to understand, not only is there a housing crisis 
but the cost of supply and materials have continued to rise 
since COVID.
    I want everybody to understand, the government has a role 
to play. If we care about America, if we care about safe homes, 
if we care about children who are sleeping in cars who have to 
get up in the morning and try to go to school, well, stop this 
madness, talking about the regulation. Let us talk about what 
America can do, rather than the President going over and having 
a good time with Putin and Kim Jong-un and with other countries 
that have nothing to do but want to take over our country.
    I have 19 more seconds. I will keep going. I will keep 
going by saying: For those of you who are in housing, who are 
responsible for building and getting money, you should be 
asking for more resources in order to get that done.
    With that said, I do not really have enough to say right 
now, but I will keep saying it, and I want you to listen: Do 
not leave away from here business-as-usual. I want you to 
understand----
    Chairman Flood. The gentlelady's time has expired.
    Ms. Waters [continuing]. a fight is on. We are going to the 
streets.
    Chairman Flood. The gentlelady's time has expired.
    Ms. Waters. Oh, has it expired?
    Chairman Flood. It has expired.
    Ms. Waters. Thank you.
    Chairman Flood. The gentleman from Tennessee----
    Ms. Waters. Okay. All right.
    Chairman Flood [continuing]. Mr. Rose is now recognized for 
5 minutes.
    Mr. Rose. Thank you, Chairman Flood, and thank you, Ranking 
Member Cleaver, for holding this hearing.
    Thank you to our witnesses for your time and being here 
today with us.
    In Tennessee, we are blessed to be leaders in the 
manufactured-housing space. I truly believe that manufactured 
housing serves as the key to unlocking more housing units for 
working families all across this Nation.
    It is for that reason that I plan to reintroduce 
legislation in this Congress that would remove the current 
permanent-steel-chassis requirement for manufactured housing.
    Dr. Hamilton, what benefits would manufactured housing 
without a permanent chassis provide in terms of producing more 
manufactured homes?
    Dr. Hamilton. Thank you, Congressman. That is a great 
question, and there are a couple of benefits.
    First are the most obvious direct effect of the permanent 
chassis requirement, which adds several thousand dollars to the 
cost of each manufactured home, which, when we are talking 
about one of the most cost-effective ways of building housing 
that is a substantial percentage of each unit. Without that 
permanent-steel-chassis requirement, those chassis could be 
repurposed from home to home, taking off that direct cost of 
each new unit.
    Equally as important, I think, removing that steel-chassis 
requirement could open up opportunities to use this housing 
more flexibly. We can find instances of manufactured homes that 
are attached to a permanent foundation with a basement, and you 
can see the chassis poking down into the basement. It is 
ridiculous.
    Getting rid of that requirement would allow people to use 
these homes in the way that works for them.
    Mr. Rose. Dr. Hamilton, from a local zoning perspective, 
are there any specific rules that make manufactured housing 
infeasible to build?
    Dr. Hamilton. Yes, there are a few, and it depends on 
whether we are talking about manufactured housing in parks or 
on owner-occupied lots.
    In the second, on owner-occupied lots, the biggest factor 
is minimum-lot-size requirements. When a house is required to 
sit on a very expensive piece of land, it does not make any 
sense to use a low-cost type of housing that is not going to 
end up in an overall affordable product.
    When we are talking about manufactured housing in parks, we 
are seeing a nationwide trend of existing parks being 
redeveloped when land costs change and the highest and best use 
of the land in that park changes, but localities are choosing 
not to zone additional land for parks.
    That reduces the opportunities that are available for using 
manufactured housing, and it puts residents of parks often in 
very difficult positions when they cannot find a place to site 
the home that they may own.
    Mr. Rose. Sure. Thank you.
    Ms. Vasicek, what steps have you taken in Columbus, 
Nebraska, to incentivize the development of manufactured 
housing that you would recommend for other communities to 
follow suit?
    Ms. Vasicek. Sure. Manufactured housing, and modular homes 
as well, are allowed in all zones.
    Specifically, on our zoning regulations, we have eliminated 
minimum-lot regulations. We have eliminated lot widths, and 
site area per housing unit. We have eliminated all rules that 
limit the ability to do accessory dwelling units.
    Those are a few of the very specific local regulations that 
are going to get in the way of modular and mobile homes.
    Mr. Rose. As a result of those changes, have you seen more 
successful modular or manufactured housing development?
    Ms. Vasicek. It is definitely increasing in Columbus.
    Mr. Rose. Very good. Thank you.
    As a member of both the Financial Services Committee and 
the House Agriculture Committee, I have observed the vast 
difference in execution of how the Department of Housing and 
Urban Development approaches housing versus the Department of 
Agriculture.
    Hon. Compton, what are the negative results of these 
differing approaches to regulating housing?
    Hon. Compton. Thank you, Congressman.
    First, for the builders and developers of housing, it 
simply is different regimes that they have to be familiar with. 
The way that USDA will go about its financing process is 
entirely unlike what HUD would do in a similar context. This 
may even be where you have adjoining sites, one financed by 
USDA, and one financed by HUD; they will be completely 
different processes.
    HUD's tends to be more standardized, whereas USDA, you can 
either have good experiences or bad experiences, but they are 
quite random.
    Chairman Flood. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Mr. Rose. Thank you.
    I see my time has expired, and I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Flood. The gentlewoman from Michigan, Ms. Tlaib, 
is now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Tlaib. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair, for having this 
important hearing.
    Ms. Bailey, when you think of 50 percent of HUD employees 
being illegally fired--many of them illegally fired--I do not 
think people understand the drastic impact it will have on all 
the housing crisis that we have. I think the private sector 
does not realize what is going to come down the pipes.
    I think getting rid of, again, this sort of oversight is 
also very detrimental.
    I looked at the numbers and said, what does 50 percent 
really mean? I saw it goes from 1,529 Federal workers in HUD 
down to 765 people.
    Even the Office of Public and Indian Housing facilitates--
get this--3.5 million rental assistance. Mr. Chair, that means 
3.5 million residents who count on those Federal workers for 
that rental assistance program will be wiped out. It is going 
to disrupt services to them and disrupt, again, this effort to 
try to combat the housing crisis.
    When I even looked deeper into it--I looked at HUD's Office 
of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, and I was like, okay, so 
they are going to cut them from--that is 572 workers there, 
down to 134 workers. That is a 77-percent reduction.
    I want you to tell, Ms. Bailey, my colleagues and the 
American people, is housing discrimination still happening?
    Ms. Bailey. Thank you for the question.
    Every year, there are over 4 million instances of housing 
discrimination and in most instances of housing discrimination 
are not reported, for fear of retaliation.
    Every year, we have been doing a fair-housing trends 
report, and we see complaints of housing discrimination go up, 
and we are at record highs, with complaints based on 
discrimination for disability being the leading and majority of 
the complaints brought.
    I want to highlight one of the victims that the National 
Fair Housing Alliance recently assisted. She was an older 
American, and she was facing challenges with creating repairs 
to her home, because, as we all know, insurance costs are 
rising----
    Ms. Tlaib. Uh-huh,
    Ms. Bailey [continuing]. she was unable to pay her 
insurance, and she was about to lose her home and be foreclosed 
upon.
    What we were able to do, as a FIT grantee, was to assist 
her in getting the proper repairs done and make sure there was 
no fraud and abuse like we saw during the Great Recession, 
where so many older Americans lost their homes because they 
were doing things like getting repairs on their home and did 
not realize they were signing away a lifetime of equity.
    We were able to help her get those repairs and maintain her 
insurance so that we did not have an older American lose her 
home.
    That is the travesty of the Great Depression--I am sorry, 
excuse me--the Great Recession of 2008. We saw so many 
homeowners in cities like Atlanta who were house-rich but cash-
poor.
    Ms. Tlaib. Yes.
    Ms. Bailey. These are targets of dangerous and risky, 
abusive predatory lenders who would go to their churches, who 
would go to their community centers as trusted resources and 
meet with them and convince them to take on projects to improve 
their property so that they could retire with the dignity that 
they deserved. They were hoodwinked, and all of their home 
equity was taken away.
    That is why we have the Consumer Financial Protection 
Bureau today, an organization, an agency with the sole mission 
of----
    Ms. Tlaib. I always tell people; it is the 911 for fraud. 
That is where my residents call. I call the Consumer Financial 
Protection Bureau (CFPB). I do not care if it is mortgage fraud 
or targeting them. They get it over and over again.
    I cannot believe they just got rid of this agency that 
pushes back against corporate greed and the scams that target 
our--I mean, I saw them do it to veterans, student loan 
borrowers, and everyone.
    I want to get to a really important question. You know, one 
of the troubling reports that came out, that Elon Musk and 
DOGE, which is--there is so lack of transparency. I do not know 
why we do not have him at this committee hearing. I have so 
many questions to ask him on behalf of my residents, but they 
gained access to thousands of people's sensitive personal 
information.
    Ms. Bailey, you know this, and I want my colleagues to know 
this. HUD enforces civil rights laws and pushes back against 
abuse, but it also enforces Fair Housing Act and parts of the 
Violence Against Women Act and often the records in HUD are not 
anonymous. They are just out there for anybody to have access 
to that work for the Federal Government or has, basically, 
screen tab access to it.
    I am just--I am thinking of all those records of domestic 
violence cases and cases on housing discrimination. Can you 
talk about the safety and privacy issues for so many of our 
families that did turn to HUD for help?
    Ms. Bailey. They would not have protection. Women who are 
trying to escape abusers, and including families with children 
who might be facing abuse, they would not have protection----
    Chairman Flood. The gentlewoman's time has expired.
    With that, the gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Fitzgerald, is 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you, Chairman.
    Thank you all for being here today.
    In 2023--I have a county, it is part of my Fifth 
congressional District in Wisconsin, Washington County--they 
established--the county exec, to his credit, established a 
program to increase the supply of homes that are priced, in 
general, kind of across the board, you would say those were 
middle-income. The goal of the program is to provide quality 
homes within 30 percent of the median household income.
    Under the program, the county provides funding based on 
maximum of $20,000 per owner-occupied dwelling unit, and it is 
capped at $2.4 million for any one site.
    They are thinking out of the box, and they are trying to 
come up with a way of building something, maybe smaller square 
footage and smaller lot size, but still fit kind of within the 
constraints of what would be considered local and State 
regulations.
    This investment is basically a grant to local governments 
and acts as a 0-percent loan for infrastructure, construction, 
and other eligible expenses, and is then returned to the county 
in the revolving fund. It is actually--they have had great 
success already.
    Mr. Hughes, I am just wondering--I know I am kind of 
hitting you with something maybe you are unaware of, but are 
there other things like this that maybe you are seeing, where 
people are thinking out of the box right now in developing some 
new footprints, that is starting to allow us to build some 
affordable housing in some of these counties?
    Mr. Hughes. Probably the most popular of those that I am 
aware of is the increased use of accessory dwelling units. They 
are much smaller; sometimes it is renovating an attic over a 
garage for a mother-in-law or--but, yes, it is becoming very 
common, very common.
    More and more jurisdictions are allowing it, but, 
unfortunately, I would guess that there are more jurisdictions 
that do not want anything to do with it.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. My frustration, I think, is that, when you 
look at certain parts of my State, in my district and outside 
of my district, there is a ton of construction going on, but 
they are building rental units, right? Or they are building 
these multiple duplex units, which is, obviously, kind of 
money-making ventures for a lot of those that are involved in 
the building trades. It is the single-family homes that are not 
being built.
    What we are trying to figure out, I guess, is, are these 
newer units being built--the rental units and the duplexes 
being built in lieu of single-family housing?
    Is that something that you are seeing, as well, kind of on 
a national scale?
    Mr. Hughes. I am not sure on a national scale. I can speak 
to my locale.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Yes. Yes. That would be helpful.
    Mr. Hughes. We have a pretty balanced mix, I think.
    Of course, we are seeing a lot of growth from Lexington, 
North Carolina. For 100 years our economy was furniture, 
textiles, and tobacco, and they all went away in about a 10-
year period. We have worked very hard to recruit manufacturing, 
and I would like to say that we are a victim of our own 
success. We have enticed some very large manufacturers. We are 
building a Siemens plant to build locomotives, and we simply do 
not have enough houses to go around.
    We have a good mix in our area of single-family and 
apartments. Now, as far as nationally, I apologize, I would not 
know what the numbers were there.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Yes.
    I think the other issue that has kind of started to emerge 
is that, in the late 1990s, there were a lot of subdivisions 
that were built, and they were large-square-footage homes--
McMansions, right?
    Mr. Hughes. Sure.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. There really has not been a shift away from 
that. Yet, the prices associated with a lot of those 
subdivisions are just--they are too high.
    Mr. Hughes. Sure.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. It is not something that a--it is not a 
starter home, right? It is not a starter home.
    Mr. Hughes. Right. Right.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. As builders kind of work through that 
process and come up with a different type of dwelling that 
maybe fits that, it might help to relieve some of the pressure 
that is on right now.
    Mr. Hughes. Right. I think one trend you would be glad to 
see; I think the average size of a custom home today is 
smaller. Maybe people are using a little more common sense.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Yes. I mean, in the 1950s, a two-bedroom, 
one-bath home was the standard.
    Mr. Hughes. Sure.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Suddenly that became three-bedrooms, two-
baths, and it continued to grow. So----
    Mr. Hughes. Sure.
    Mr. Fitzgerald [continuing]. maybe that is an answer.
    I am out of time. Thank you very much.
    I yield back.
    Chairman Flood. The gentlewoman from Texas, Ms. Garcia, is 
now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Garcia. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you to all the witnesses today and welcome to our 
Capitol and to a big day for many around the complex.
    I just wanted to just kind of talk a little bit about the 
Trump tariffs.
    I know that the ranking member has already asked some 
questions of you, Mr.--is it ``Murray''? No, you are 
``Harris,'' Mr. Harris, from the--right.
    Mr. Hughes. Hughes.
    Ms. Garcia. I think both of your press releases that I saw 
that came from your organization clearly stated your 
disappointment and displeasure with the Trump tariffs that are 
coming to both Canada and Mexico and the impact that it would 
have on some of the lumber that you purchased.
    Also, of course, combined with that, we know that there are 
some actions that he is planning on doing in terms of mass 
deportations, which could gut your workforce by about 30 
percent.
    Both of those together, it is almost like a double whammy 
for your industry. Can you all survive?
    Mr. Hughes. Yes, I think we can survive, but we are 
definitely going to--it is going to be challenging, maybe the 
best way to put it.
    We are very concerned about tariffs. As I mentioned 
earlier, it is causing me to spend more money already, and it 
just became official. We have so many products that come from 
our northern friends and our southern friends: Portland cement 
for ready-mix concrete--I am in the concrete business--drywall, 
gypsum for drywall. Yes, no question.
    Ms. Garcia. Well, but what about the impact of 30 percent 
of your workforce maybe not being here anymore?
    Mr. Hughes. I have not felt that in our area. We have a lot 
of----
    Ms. Garcia. What has your industry felt? Are you getting 
reports from around the country? Obviously, you represent a 
national organization.
    Mr. Hughes. Sure. Sure, we are getting it, and it varies 
depending on areas.
    We are working very hard to increase the workforce. Our 
association, from coast to coast, is doing a lot of things to 
train and retrain the next generation. I have been coordinating 
carpentry contests for over 25 years to try to train high-
school kids, which is working very well, but it is a slow, slow 
fix.
    Ms. Garcia. Thank you.
    Mr. Hughes. No question, the immigration----
    Ms. Garcia. Thirty percent is huge, in terms of hit to your 
workforce, and then, what is it, 25 percent in Trump tariffs. I 
mean, like I said, it is a double whammy, and I wish you all 
the best.
    Mr. Hughes. Thank you.
    Ms. Garcia. I know that many of us are very concerned for a 
variety of reasons but thank you for the press releases that 
you have sent out. It made clear about what position you all 
have.
    Recently, a constituent reached out to my office to help 
with casework. She is a mother of three and a veteran. She also 
filed to participate in the HUD-Veterans Affairs Supportive 
Housing program. The program provides homeless veterans with 
HUD's housing choice voucher, rental assistance, along with 
case management and clinical services provided by the 
Department of Veterans Affairs.
    She originally filed to participate in the program because 
she and her children were faced with the risk of homelessness. 
However, due to the shortage of affordable housing in Houston 
and the high demand in the program itself, the waitlist for the 
Housing of Urban Development-Veterans Affairs Supportive 
Housing (HUD-VASH) program has been closed. They just have been 
closed. That left my constituent, a 100-percent-disabled 
veteran who served this Nation, unable to participate.
    Ms. Bailey, your work with the National Fair Housing 
Alliance directly works with families like my constituent. What 
can we do, as a Congress and as a Nation, to better prioritize 
affordable housing so that our vulnerable communities and our 
Nation's heroes can avoid homelessness?
    Ms. Bailey. Thank you for the question.
    One of the things that you can do is make sure the 
administration is not trying to override the rules of Congress. 
Dollars have already been appropriated, and those contracts are 
being taken away. The President does not have the authority to 
do that so to hold the administration accountable for making 
sure dollars that Congress already appropriated are spent in 
the way that Congress has designed them to do such.
    The second thing is making sure things like our 
Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing provision of the Fair 
Housing Act, which simply requires that every community is 
vibrant, with all of the amenities that everyone needs to 
thrive, is fully enforced. It is actually the key to some of 
the local and State-based exclusionary zoning laws.
    Ms. Garcia. Thank you.
    I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Flood. Thank you.
    The gentleman from South Carolina, Mr. Timmons, is now 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Timmons. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Hon. Compton and Dr. Hamilton, during your testimony, you 
touched on some things that I want to expand on a little bit.
    It seems to me that one of the biggest challenges in the 
affordable-housing space is the complex, I am going to say, 
patchwork framework of approaches taken by the Federal 
Government, the State, and the city. While they are all 
intended, well-intended, for the same purpose of facilitating 
affordable housing, they are often contradictory and, in many 
ways, vague.
    I guess the last part--with elections that have 
consequences, some of the State and local rules can change in 
the middle of a development, and the permitting process can be 
overly onerous and complex.
    Dr. Hamilton, is there a way that the Federal Government 
could preempt all of these rules to create an NFIP, National 
Flood Insurance Program-style system through which State and 
local governments can then adopt portions of it to try to 
streamline that?
    Does that question make sense?
    Dr. Hamilton. Thank you, Congressman.
    Part of that is outside of my area of expertise, as far as 
the legal role that Congress could play in a more aggressive 
role in determining zoning and permitting processes, but I 
think there are absolutely lessons that need to be shared by 
States and local governments, and implemented, in terms of what 
is working.
    One thing we often see is that the repeal of one specific 
zoning rule, intended to make a new type of project feasible to 
build, will just reveal the challenges in permitting or 
building codes or subdivision regulations that are still 
standing in the way of the type of housing that the reformers 
were hoping to see.
    Mr. Timmons. Hon. Compton, what are your thoughts on that 
concept?
    Hon. Compton. Yes. Congressman, in my opening remarks, I 
spoke of a systemic or systematic approach to this.
    I think that one of the problems that we have really dates 
back to the 1986 Tax Act. We took out passive-loss--we put in 
passive-loss limitations in the 1986 Tax Act, which essentially 
took individuals and small businesses out of the ability to 
invest economically in real estate. I think that had the 
unintended consequence of disconnecting local investors from 
the local real estate market.
    What we have seen over the last 40 years since that was 
done is an explosion of local regulation. In part, it is 
because many of the builders are the national builders, which 
do not have input into State and local elections, and, thus, 
there is really no political check on the growth of these 
regulations, because many, many homeowners would just as soon 
nobody else ever build near them.
    I think that reexamining the--as part of the Tax Cuts and 
Jobs Act reconsideration, looking at taking passive-loss 
limitations off of residential investment could help restore 
balance.
    Mr. Timmons. Thank you for that.
    It seems that all levels of government are searching for a 
solution to the problem of affordability. In my district, it is 
particularly challenging, as we have gentrification due to 
increased population growth, and we have no public 
transportation to speak of. It is even more of a challenge 
there.
    I have encouraged our State and local government to view 
this challenge from a perspective of, how do you incentivize, 
as opposed to require?
    Because, in my experience, when local governments try to 
require a percentage of affordable housing, it really creates a 
bad environment. Because if you are telling a developer they 
have to do 25, 30 percent affordable, that developer is still 
going to get the rents necessary to make the project work, and 
you are going to have the 70 percent of the people subsidizing 
30 percent and neighbors subsidizing neighbors. I actually 
think it is just immoral.
    If we are going to do this; we should consider it from the 
perspective of general fund tax dollars. If you want to then 
use those general fund tax dollars because you have convinced 
the people that you represent, that is an appropriate use of 
tax dollars--which I think many cities and States can have that 
conversation--then you incentivize developers, using general 
fund tax dollars.
    It just makes a lot more sense than--it is harder to do. It 
is a lot harder to do, because you actually have to defend your 
policy decision to the people that elect you, but it is 
drastically superior to telling developers that they must force 
one neighbor to subsidize another. Yes, I appreciate this 
hearing. I look forward to working with my colleagues across 
the aisle to try to solve this problem for all of our cities 
and counties.
    Thanks.
    Chairman Flood. The gentleman yields back.
    The gentleman from California, Mr. Liccardo, is now 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Liccardo. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for allowing 
me to waive on.
    Thank you also for taking the time last week. I appreciated 
the opportunity--or 2 weeks ago, I think--to speak with 
Democrats about our ideas on housing. I really want to thank 
Ranking Member Cleaver for the invitation to that conversation.
    Mr. Hughes, I appreciate your emphasis on the five L's. 
Thanks for keeping it simple for us. That is helpful.
    I wanted to talk about three of those L's for just a 
moment.
    First, on the lending, I really appreciate NAHB's advocacy 
for full funding for all HUD and USDA rental assistance 
contracts, for robust funding for the HOME Program, for the 
USDA Homeownership Direct Loan programs and multifamily 
programs. I think those are all important, and I certainly hope 
my colleagues on both sides of the aisle will heed your 
advocacy.
    In particular, I was interested about the expansion of the 
Low-Income Housing Tax Credit (LIHTC)--I know that there was 
pending legislation in the last session--and specifically on 
boosting the 9 percent, which I imagine could help a lot of 
small jurisdictions, smaller towns, that do not have a lot of 
access to capital, that still have a gap in the capital stack. 
By boosting it, say, from 9 to 12 percent, it could enable 
projects to actually get a shovel out of the ground much 
faster.
    Have you seen that happen based on the experiment that we 
just went through, through the post-pandemic era, when we saw a 
boost in that tax credit?
    Mr. Hughes. Well, personally, I have not had any dealings 
with LIHTC at all, but I have some friends that have, and they 
love it, to be honest with you. It is one of the best tools 
they have.
    I am sorry, I cannot speak directly to it, but I know they 
would like to see it increased.
    We know, we do not stand a chance furnishing housing for 
low-income families without some kind of government subsidies. 
That is one of the best.
    Mr. Liccardo. Yes, I agree. I think, certainly in my 
experience as a Mayor of a large city and in a very expensive 
place, we had a capital stack sometimes of seven or eight 
different sources. Having that boost could be a real catalyst 
to getting more units built.
    Going to the next L, labor, I think you testified, was it 
300,000 open positions----
    Mr. Hughes. Correct. That is average.
    Mr. Liccardo.--in construction across the country?
    Mr. Hughes. Average. Right.
    Mr. Liccardo. Is it fair to say that has been something of 
a chronic challenge for us since the Great Recession, for about 
a decade and a half? Is that right.
    Mr. Hughes. Sure, exactly because the recession retired a 
lot of people before they wanted to--or, before they would have 
naturally, and it left a huge gap.
    Mr. Liccardo. We can agree that having more immigration 
would probably help for those skilled labor positions. Is that 
fair.
    Mr. Hughes. Absolutely.
    I grew up in the tobacco belt, where we used immigrant 
help, but the outfall of that, a lot of times, was the folks 
that came in for seasonal work--we do not have tobacco anymore, 
but we have Christmas trees, so we still have a big influx. A 
lot of these workers get a job and stick around and learn to 
lay block.
    Mr. Liccardo. Yes.
    Mr. Hughes. That is--I mentioned we are working very hard 
to train the next generation, but it is slow.
    Mr. Liccardo. Yes.
    Mr. Hughes. There have to be some ways that we can take 
advantage of the immigrant force that we have right now.
    Mr. Liccardo. Also, the many people who do want to work.
    Mr. Hughes. Oh, absolutely.
    Mr. Liccardo. Yes.
    Mr. Hughes. No question, they do want the work.
    Mr. Liccardo. I appreciate that.
    I also appreciate your prior testimony that we were not 
helped any with regard to housing construction costs by the 
President's increase in tariffs. We know it affects Canadian 
lumber and many other building materials, and I appreciate your 
testimony in that regard.
    Dr. Hamilton, I appreciated your testimony as well and I 
understand particularly the points around zoning and how that 
can be a real constraint.
    We do have a challenge in many local jurisdictions where 
folks--some may call them Not in my Backyard (NIMBY) neighbors 
who yell because they love their community, of course, but they 
do not like something getting built that is tall next to their 
neighborhood.
    We have existing stock of buildings with 20 percent 
vacancy, right, nearly 20 percent nationally, and that is our 
office stock. There is an opportunity, certainly, to 
rehabilitate those buildings.
    Would it not make sense from a zoning perspective where 
perhaps we could have a Federal program that could stimulate 
the conversion of those buildings with perhaps a by-right 
rezoning requirement?
    Dr. Hamilton. Thank you, Congressman.
    Yes, there are certainly instances where office buildings 
can be successfully converted to residential, to great effect 
sometimes. With historic buildings, it creates beautiful 
opportunities for very cool multifamily projects in what are no 
longer viable office buildings.
    Unfortunately, there are many more instances where the 
floor plate does not work.
    Chairman Flood. The gentlewoman's time----
    Mr. Liccardo. Understood. It only works for smaller floor 
plates, but it is still a significant percentage.
    Thank you.
    Chairman Flood. The gentleman's time has expired.
    I recognize Ms. Garcia for a unanimous-consent request.
    Ms. Garcia. Mr. Chairman, I ask for unanimous consent to 
introduce into the record two press releases from the National 
Association of Home Builders: one dated February 1st, ``25 
percent Tariff Hike on Canadian and Mexican Goods Harms Housing 
Affordability''; the second one, ``Trump Imposes Additional 25 
percent Tariff on Canadian Softwood Lumber.''
    The third article is from the Houston Chronicle, and it is, 
``Texas wants more affordable housing. Insurance costs are 
getting in the way.''
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Chairman Flood. Without objection.

    [The information referred to can be found in the appendix:]

    Chairman Flood. The gentleman from New York, Mr. Garbarino, 
is now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Garbarino. Thank you, Chairman.
    Thank you all, to the witnesses, for being here today.
    On average, government regulations account for nearly 25 
percent of the cost to build a typical new single-family home, 
totaling almost $94,000.
    Mr. Hughes, NAHB research has found that approximately 14 
million American households are priced out of the market for a 
new home by government regulations.
    Can you give us examples of regulations either during the 
development or construction phase that have led to these 
increased costs for housing?
    Mr. Hughes. I can give you many. My favorite----
    Mr. Garbarino. I have only 5 minutes.
    Mr. Hughes. I know.
    My target is on energy codes. We debate a lot about codes, 
and, truthfully, 85 percent of those we do not have an argument 
with, as long as it is health and safety. Where we get a little 
sideways is when we get involved with the government, the 
Federal Government gets involved with energy codes, increased 
energy codes. That is where it has really escalated out of 
control.
    We would love to see that--and one of those requirements is 
on the HUD, USDA, and Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) loans 
having to conform to those heavier codes.
    Mr. Garbarino. Absolutely.
    It is not just the Federal Government, but we have seen 
States do it. This past Friday, New York moved one step 
closer----
    Mr. Hughes. Sure.
    Mr. Garbarino [continuing]. to installing a gas-stove ban 
for new buildings. This first-in-the-Nation ban will increase 
energy costs for New Yorkers and stress the electrical grid and 
eliminate consumer choice, all while having a minimal 
environmental impact and pricing out working-class families.
    Mr. Hughes, you just mentioned these standards that are 
coming out and being forced on HUD and USDA, and New York 
energy standards. We see these things coming out of here; they 
do not have the benefit of what the intention is, but they are 
having a lot of negative impact. You talked about--I talked 
about cost.
    What about timing of projects? Viability of projects? Are 
these stopping even things from getting started?
    Mr. Hughes. Sure. If not stopping them, tremendously 
slowing them down.
    Mr. Garbarino. Well, I appreciate that very much.
    The main factor--I am going to switch things here--the main 
factor contributing to housing unaffordability is the ongoing 
shortage of homes required to meet increasing demand. In order 
to right the ship, we must explore innovative solutions to keep 
pace with household needs.
    One such solution to address not only affordability issues 
but also the supply challenges have been manufactured housing.
    Dr. Hamilton, can you please describe how manufactured 
housing could possibly address the high cost of building new 
construction in high-density urban areas such as Long Island?
    Dr. Hamilton. Thank you, Congressman.
    Yes, manufactured housing presents cost efficiencies over 
site-built housing in a variety of ways, one of which is that 
it can be built offsite, where labor costs can be much lower 
than they are on Long Island.
    What is necessary, though, in high-cost places is, 
typically, allowing a dense manufactured-housing development 
that local zoning rules are generally standing in the way of. 
One factor could be outright manufactured-housing bans. Another 
could be minimum-lot-size requirements, which make the cost of 
each piece of land that a house can sit on very expensive and 
make manufactured housing an unviable solution.
    Although, some of HUD's recent reforms to allow for more 
than one manufactured-housing unit to be combined are 
promising.
    Mr. Garbarino. Thank you very much for that answer and I 
just want to make a statement just to finish.
    We have heard a lot of complaints about the cost of homes 
going up, the cost of construction, the cost of buying. Very 
little has been done to solve it, except for--the past 
administration and a lot of State governments controlled by--
New York, for instance, controlled by a Democratic Governor for 
the last 20-some-odd years--they have gone after the mortgage 
industry, they have gone after the title insurance industry, 
they have gone after the realtors, they have gone after the 
home builders, all to try to--all these groups that help people 
actually achieve homeownership, they have gone after them as if 
they are the problem.
    They are not the problem. Over-regulation by government is 
the problem. They need to get out of the way and let these 
people, who have done a great job for decades of letting people 
buy homes, get them back into the business where they have been 
and been so successful at it. We have to get out of the over-
regulation that government has done.
    With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Flood. The gentleman yields back.
    The gentleman from New York, Mr. Torres, is recognized for 
5 minutes.
    Mr. Torres. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Even though housing is one of the central concerns of every 
American household, funding for HUD represents a mere 1 percent 
of the overall Federal budget. The Fiscal Year 2024 Federal 
budget was in the range of $7 trillion, of which only $70 
billion went to HUD.
    Ms. Bailey, do you think housing is getting anything 
approaching its fair share of Federal funding?
    Ms. Bailey. No and thank you for the question, sir.
    Mr. Torres. The National Low Income Housing Coalition 
reports that America has a housing deficit of 7.3 million units 
for the lowest-income Americans. The United States builds 
somewhere between a million and 2 million units a year, but 
only a small subset of those units is affordable to the lowest-
income Americans.
    Now, I am all for land-use reform, for reasonable 
deregulation, but the fact is that it is all but impossible to 
build deeply affordable housing for the lowest-income Americans 
without some measure of public subsidy.
    Is that correct?
    Ms. Bailey. Correct.
    Mr. Torres. If we continue to catastrophically under-build 
housing in America and continue to catastrophically under-
invest in housing in America, then we, as a country, have no 
hope for closing the housing deficit of 7.3 million units. In 
fact, that deficit will only widen over time.
    Now, the greatest sources of deeply affordable housing are 
Section 8 and Section 9 public housing. There are about 5 
million Americans living in Section 8 public housing and about 
2.5 million living in Section 9 housing.
    I can tell you, as a product of public housing, most 
Americans who live in Section 8, in public housing, would be 
homeless without it, because market-rate rent is simply too 
high.
    My question to you, Ms. Bailey, is, what is more expensive 
for the Federal Government, homelessness or those housing 
programs?
    Ms. Bailey. Homelessness, sir. Thank you.
    Mr. Torres. When the Federal Government defunds or under-
invests in programs like Section 8 and public housing, it is 
not creating a cost saving; it is simply substituting the 
higher cost of homelessness for the lower cost of affordable 
housing.
    Do you agree with that assessment?
    Ms. Bailey. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Torres. Affordable housing is not a cost but a cost 
saving relative to the far greater cost of homelessness.
    Ms. Bailey. I would add ``fair and affordable,'' sir.
    Mr. Torres. The Federal Government must not only create new 
housing supply; we must preserve the existing housing supply. 
Nowhere is the need for preservation more pressing than in 
public housing.
    I grew up in New York City public housing, New York City 
Housing Authority (NYCHA), which has been so chronically 
underfunded for so long by the Federal Government that it has a 
capital need of $80 billion and counting. That is 80 
``billion'' with a ``B.''
    Housing authorities like NYCHA typically receive only a 
percentage, only a proration of the formula Federal funding for 
which it is statutorily eligible. In fact, there have been 
years when NYCHA has only received 82 percent of its formula 
Federal funding.
    Do you think there is a private landlord in America that 
could operate with only 82 percent of the revenues that it 
needs?
    Ms. Bailey. No, sir.
    Mr. Torres. Why should we expect that of public housing?
    Ms. Bailey. We absolutely should not, and, in fact, we need 
more investment, and we need to be very intentional.
    The Housing Crisis Response Act has $150 billion. It is a 
sensible package that we all need. We need to see increased 
support for housing choice vouchers, and increased support for 
public housing authorities.
    We need to act quickly. Housing is an important pillar of 
our economy. If we allow housing to fail, the economy fails.
    Mr. Torres. Federal public housing is a Federal program and 
a Federal obligation.
    Ms. Bailey. Yes.
    Mr. Torres. If there are bricks falling off a public 
housing building, does the Federal Government have an 
obligation to replace them?
    Ms. Bailey. Yes.
    Mr. Torres. If there are leaking roofs that are causing 
water to penetrate and damage the building systems, does the 
Federal Government have an obligation to replace those roofs?
    Ms. Bailey. Yes, because the people who live in those 
housing places deserve the dignity of a home that is safe.
    Mr. Torres. Safe, decent, affordable housing, which every 
Member of Congress enjoys. Why not wish for every American the 
safe, decent, affordable housing that we, as Members of 
Congress, take for granted?
    I have a question for each of the panelists. There are 
multiple causes to the affordability crisis, right? Insurance, 
construction cost, land use. Which cause would you identify as 
the most consequential?
    I will start with Hon. Compton.
    Hon. Compton. Hearkening back, Congressman, to what I said 
about what we did in the Tax Code 40 years ago, we 
intentionally knew that changes in the Tax Code in the 1986 Tax 
Reform Act were going to cause under-investment in housing, and 
that is exactly what we have gotten.
    Dr. Hamilton. Thank you, Congressman.
    I would point to land-use regulations and permit approval 
processes.
    Mr. Hughes. Excessive codes.
    Ms. Vasicek. I would say, since we have reformed our local 
regulations and we have invested significantly in housing at 
our level, it is some of the----
    Chairman Flood. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Ms. Vasicek [continuing]. Federal and State requirements.
    Chairman Flood. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Mr. Torres. Thank you.
    I have a shortage of housing and a shortage of time, so 
thank you.
    Chairman Flood. Thank you.
    The gentleman from New York, Mr. Lawler, is now recognized 
for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Lawler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I do not think there is any question that housing is one of 
the most important issues facing our country. We are 
approaching 7 million units underbuilt nationwide, and it 
impacts every community across the country in every type of 
housing stock.
    One of the most common refrains that I hear when discussing 
housing with residents across my district is their concern 
about the affordability of housing. It remains the most 
persistent challenge.
    With mortgage rates near their highest since the turn of 
the millennium, a limited housing supply in many communities, 
and ongoing supply chain and construction issues, it is perhaps 
the most difficult time to purchase a home in our region's 
history.
    This affordability crisis is further complicated by the 
fact that many homeowners remain unable or unwilling to sell 
their homes for fear of losing their fixed, low-rate mortgages 
obtained prior to 2022.
    The median cost to purchase a home is more than 5.6 times 
greater than the median household income nationwide.
    In looking at the growing crisis in my district, in 
Rockland and Westchester Counties, which pay among the highest 
property taxes in America, according to the National 
Association of Realtors, the monthly average cost of a mortgage 
was $1,000 more in 2023 than it was in 2022, and in Putnam and 
Dutchess Counties, it was at least $800 more per month. That is 
anywhere ranging from $10,000 to $12,000 more per year on an 
annual basis. For many families, this is totally unsustainable.
    That is why I will be reintroducing--and I am glad to see 
noticed with today's hearing--my Housing for America's Middle 
Class Act. This bill will improve our understanding of the 
efficacy of Federal housing affordability programs and of any 
gaps that exclude middle-income households.
    Mr. Hughes, given the estimated costs of construction 
continuing to climb, can you highlight why most builders opt to 
produce more expensive housing to remain economically viable?
    Mr. Hughes. I think most builders just address their 
market, what--what market--how they are going to be able to 
sell the homes.
    I deal primarily in western North Carolina, where there is 
no starter housing; everything is large, custom homes. It is a 
great market. You can only build one or two a year, but it is a 
good market.
    Everybody seems to have their expertise, I guess. Spec 
building is not mine. I am more of a custom builder.
    Mr. Lawler. Hon. Compton or Mr. Hughes, what, in your view, 
need to change either at the regulatory or market level to 
ensure that the construction industry can produce homes at a 
price point for middle-income consumers?
    Hon. Compton. Congressman, thank you.
    I think that what is vastly underestimated in terms of the 
regulatory burden is not just the cost or even the time that it 
imposes, but it really is the multiplicative effect that the 
time has on risk.
    Given that profit margins, whether it is an expensive house 
or a less expensive house or similar, is that the margin for 
error on less expensive houses, if you have an unexpected 3-
month delay due to some regulatory issue, can take that from 
being profitable to a loss. There is simply much greater risk, 
both perceived and real, for lower-cost houses because of less 
of a margin of error.
    I think making the regulatory process not only less but 
more predictable would be helpful in that respect.
    Mr. Lawler. It is estimated that the construction industry 
needs over 400,000 workers next year to meet growing demand. In 
your estimation, how can these goals be met?
    I would direct this to Mr. Hughes.
    Mr. Hughes. As I mentioned before, immigration, we simply 
have to have a short fix. We are doing all we can for the slow, 
long fix, but there has to be a way to figure this out; we have 
been doing it for decades and we have to get a handle on that.
    Mr. Lawler. I do not think there is any question, as we 
deal with the economic challenges facing the country, three of 
the biggest issues that I see are immigration, energy, and 
housing.
    If we actually address all three in a serious and 
substantive way and address the workforce shortages, address 
the energy supply, and address the housing supply, our economy 
will be in a much stronger position, and the cost of housing 
will come down.
    I yield back.
    Chairman Flood. The gentleman's time has expired.
    The gentleman yields back.
    The gentlewoman from Oregon, Ms. Bynum, is now recognized 
for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Bynum. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the 
witnesses.
    My State of Oregon has faced some of the fastest-growing 
housing costs in the country. I am concerned that, despite 
State-led efforts like rent stabilization and zoning reform, 
many families are still priced out.
    Ms. Bailey, what additional fair-housing policies or 
Federal support do you think States like ours--like mine--would 
make housing more accessible, particularly for low-income and 
marginalized communities?
    If I could put a finer point on it, this morning we talked 
a little bit about what it takes to give some hope to the 
younger generation. I have a 23-year-old and a 20-year-old and 
when I talked with the realtors a couple weeks ago, they told 
me 38 was the average age of a first-time homebuyer.
    Like--so I am telling kids now--let us say you graduate 
from college or trade school, you are 23. You have to work 15 
years to be able to get into your own home?
    Help me make it make sense, please.
    Ms. Bailey. Thank you so much for the question.
    The Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing Act provision of 
the Fair Housing Act is critical to being a tool for local 
jurisdictions to actually attack and dismantle the structural 
inequities that have been created by exclusionary zoning laws.
    Fully enforcing the Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing 
provision, which says that every dollar for housing and 
community development programs expended, they must make sure 
all communities are vibrant and inclusive and that the people 
there can thrive; that is for HUD, Treasury, Department of 
Education, Department of Transportation, and every Federal 
agency.
    The second thing, in response to your question, we need to 
pass the Housing Crisis Response Act. It includes critical 
funding for first-generation downpayment assistance. This is 
downpayment assistance that would help homebuyers whose prior 
generations have been locked out of the system because of 
exclusionary policies that have made it impossible for them to 
build intergenerational wealth that they could pass forward to 
new generations and help them enter into homeownership.
    The number one barrier for people who are interested in 
becoming homebuyers and who are being beaten by investors is 
the lack of a downpayment. First-generation downpayment 
assistance would help people in urban, suburban, and rural 
communities get access to the downpayment assistance that they 
need to enter into and successfully become homeowners.
    Ms. Bynum. Thank you.
    I would also push to say that even middle-class kids who 
grew up in a home, they are having troubles too. I would 
venture to say a lot of the young kids working in the Capitol 
today could hardly afford to buy a home, even with very good 
salaries.
    Did anyone else on the panel want to poke at it? Do you 
have kids that you want to get out of your house, that you 
would like to be able to help them buy a home?
    Mr. Hughes. Well, I will comment. I have three grandsons--
--
    Ms. Bynum. Okay.
    Mr. Hughes [continuing]. under 10 years old and I am very 
concerned----
    Ms. Bynum. Yes.
    Mr. Hughes [continuing]. that when they get of age, they 
are going to be able to own their own home, even if I am still 
around to build it for them.
    Ms. Bynum. Yes.
    Mr. Chair, let the record reflect that we are all concerned 
about the fate of our young people in this country and their 
ability to buy their own home and stabilize their living 
arrangements for the future.
    Ms. Bailey, you also mentioned a little bit about 
institutional investors, or at least I heard a little bit about 
that. I am really concerned that they own now a significant 
share of rental housing and, fairly or unfairly, have been 
accused of driving up rents and perhaps limiting supply in some 
areas.
    We know that this form of funding is filling a gap, but how 
can we make that more friendly to the people in those 
communities who want to buy homes? How can we adjust what is 
happening in that market fairly?
    Ms. Bailey. Again, providing first-generation downpayment 
assistance and using our fair-housing laws, to actually enforce 
them against harmful practices.
    We have heard allegations that some companies are using 
technologies, for instance, because technology is playing a 
broader role in making housing decisions, and technology is 
driving up the cost of housing in different communities. Using 
things like the Fair Housing Act and the Equal Opportunity Act 
to fully enforce those important civil-rights protections.
    Ms. Bynum. Thank you.
    Mr. Hughes--I think I can see that--Oregon is a national 
leader in mass timber production, and so our State has promoted 
cross-laminated timber as a more sustainable, cost-effective 
building material.
    Any interest in your neck of the woods for cross-laminated 
timber?
    Mr. Hughes. I have seen it, and I have researched it some, 
but, no, I have not seen it used at all, except maybe in a 
couple multifamily----
    Ms. Bynum. Oh, okay.
    Mr. Hughes [continuing]. large, multifamily projects. 
Unfortunately, I have seen a couple failures too.
    Ms. Bynum. Okay. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Chairman Flood. The gentlewoman yields back.
    The gentleman from the great State of Montana is 
recognized, Mr. Downing. You are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Downing. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.
    I think about my idea of the American Dream, being able to 
buy your first home, and worry about things that get that 
farther and farther and harder and harder to do.
    I am just looking at some numbers from Montana. We have 
seen--in the 5-year period from 2018 to 2023, we saw about a 
90-percent increase in the median home value in listings. In 
that same period, we saw median household income in Montana 
increase just under 30 percent, so it is almost three times 
more in that period and the median listing price for a home in 
Livingston is about $640,000.
    One of the things that I thought was interesting, another 
data point I saw shows that for every $1,000 increase in the 
cost of building a home, that you are foreclosing on about 
106,000 potential buyers in that, and so limiting the market to 
those folks.
    One final thing that I think is germane to this 
conversation is, about 77 percent of U.S. households are 
already not able to afford a median-priced home and that about 
24 percent of that is from regulations across all levels of 
government. That is according to the National Association of 
Home Builders.
    I am going to start with Mr. Hughes.
    Under the previous administration, Joe Biden saw affordable 
and reliable energy as the problem, in favor of the Green New 
Deal priorities. In 2024, the Department of Housing and Urban 
Development, in concert with the Department of Agriculture, 
promulgated a final rule requiring all HUD-and USDA-financed 
properties to adhere to international green-energy standards.
    How do these sorts of unrealistic energy standards put 
affordable housing out of reach for many families?
    Mr. Hughes. It has added so much extra cost to--and it does 
not pay for itself, simply.
    Now, I have been using innovative, energy-efficient 
products for over 20 years, and I am big believer in them as 
long as they pay for themselves. You simply cannot pay for 
these increases.
    Mr. Downing. Right.
    Hon. Compton, anything you would want to add to that?
    Hon. Compton. We certainly have seen this growth, whether 
it is in the energy space or in others.
    I think one thing that is also under-appreciated is just 
the cumulative burden of all of these things. I have likened it 
to the old tale ``Gulliver's Travels.'' Any one of these 
strings is not enough to kind of hold the housing market back, 
but by the time you have piled several hundred or several 
thousand on someone, the cumulative burden is just enormous.
    Mr. Downing. Right.
    Hon. Compton. So, things that if viewed in isolation we 
would say, ``Well, that is really not such a bad idea, that 
would kind of be Okay,'' is that when you take 500 of those 
``well, that would not be so bad,'' is that we have really 
ended up at the place that you are talking about, which is this 
24 percent of cost.
    Then, as I mentioned earlier, I think that kind of an 
untabulated cost is the risk that adds due to the delay that is 
inherent in it.
    Mr. Downing. Right.
    Continuing on this, another example of the burdensome 
impact of environmental regulations is the broad application of 
the National Environmental Protection Act, or NEPA.
    NEPA was originally intended for large-scale industrial 
projects like power plants with significant environmental 
impacts. Today, it has expanded to include housing 
construction, which creates costly delays on projects.
    To you, Hon. Compton: How should NEPA be reformed to make 
housing construction faster, more affordable, and still 
maintain sensible environmental protections?
    Hon. Compton. Thank you, Congressman.
    I think, in particular, first is to recognize that NEPA is 
not a substantive environmental regulation. It is, instead, 
simply process. It does not say what you have to do; it simply 
says how you have to do it, and it imposes an enormous burden 
in terms of time on many projects that are subject to it.
    It is even broader than what you mentioned. I mean, for 
instance, a project that has project-based vouchers from HUD is 
now subject to NEPA. This is far beyond, I think, what was 
originally intended, as you mentioned, for nuclear plants, 
hydroelectric dams, and Air Force bases.
    I think that what Congress did in 2023 in the Fiscal 
Responsibility Act really lays the groundwork for meaningful 
change in the regulations. Courts have held that the existing 
Council on Environmental Quality (CEQ) regs are 
unconstitutional. This is the time to really take a new look at 
this, and I think that great progress can be made in this area.
    Mr. Downing. Well, thank you very much.
    Unfortunately, I have run out of time, so, Mr. Chair, I 
yield.
    Chairman Flood. The gentleman yields.
    I would like to thank all of our witnesses for your 
testimony today.
    Without objection, all members will have 5 legislative days 
to submit additional written questions for the witnesses to the 
chair. The questions will be forwarded to the witnesses for 
their responses.
    Witnesses, please respond no later than April 30, 2025.

    [The information referred to can be found in the appendix.]
    Chairman Flood. This hearing is adjourned.

    [Whereupon, at 4:12 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]



      
      
      
      
      

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