[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
A HEARING WITH SANCTUARY CITY MAYORS
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT
AND GOVERNMENT REFORM
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
MARCH 5, 2025
__________
Serial No. 119-11
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform
GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT
Available on: govinfo.gov,
oversight.house.gov or
docs.house.gov
_______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
59-603 PDF WASHINGTON : 2025
COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM
JAMES COMER, Kentucky, Chairman
Jim Jordan, Ohio Gerald E. Connolly, Virginia,
Mike Turner, Ohio Ranking Minority Member
Paul Gosar, Arizona Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of
Virginia Foxx, North Carolina Columbia
Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts
Michael Cloud, Texas Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois
Gary Palmer, Alabama Ro Khanna, California
Clay Higgins, Louisiana Kweisi Mfume, Maryland
Pete Sessions, Texas Shontel Brown, Ohio
Andy Biggs, Arizona Melanie Stansbury, New Mexico
Nancy Mace, South Carolina Robert Garcia, California
Pat Fallon, Texas Maxwell Frost, Florida
Byron Donalds, Florida Summer Lee, Pennsylvania
Scott Perry, Pennsylvania Greg Casar, Texas
William Timmons, South Carolina Jasmine Crockett, Texas
Tim Burchett, Tennessee Emily Randall, Washington
Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia Suhas Subramanyam, Virginia
Lauren Boebert, Colorado Yassamin Ansari, Arizona
Anna Paulina Luna, Florida Wesley Bell, Missouri
Nick Langworthy, New York Lateefah Simon, California
Eric Burlison, Missouri Dave Min, California
Eli Crane, Arizona Ayanna Pressley, Massachusetts
Brian Jack, Georgia Rashida Tlaib, Michigan
John McGuire, Virginia
Brandon Gill, Texas
------
Mark Marin, Staff Director
James Rust, Deputy Staff Director
Mitch Benzine, General Counsel
Alex Rankin, Counsel
Alex Phares, Professional Staff Member
Billy Grant, Professional Staff Member
Mallory Cogar, Deputy Director of Operations and Chief Clerk
Contact Number: 202-225-5074
Jamie Smith, Minority Staff Director
Contact Number: 202-225-5051
------
C O N T E N T S
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Page
Hearing held on March 5, 2025.................................... 1
WITNESSES
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The Honorable Eric Adams, Mayor, City of New York
Oral Statement............................................... 6
The Honorable Mike Johnston, Mayor, City and County of Denver
Oral Statement............................................... 7
The Honorable Brandon Johnson, Mayor, City of Chicago
Oral Statement............................................... 9
The Honorable Michelle Wu, Mayor, City of Boston
Oral Statement............................................... 10
Mr. David J. Bier (Minority Witness), Director of Immigration
Studies, Cato Institute
Oral Statement............................................... 12
Written opening statements and bios are available on the U.S.
House of Representatives Document Repository at:
docs.house.gov.
INDEX OF DOCUMENTS
----------
* Report, Cato Institute, ``President Obama: Deporter-In-
Chief''; submitted by Rep. Connolly.
* Statement for the Record, LEAP, Anti-Sanctuary Bill
Opposition Letter; submitted by Rep. Connolly.
* Statement for the Record, AFL-CIO, H.R. 32; submitted by Rep.
Connolly.
* Statement for the Record, LEITF, H.R. 32; submitted by Rep.
Connolly.
* Statement for the Record, NIJC; submitted by Rep. Connolly.
* Statement for the Record, NILC; submitted by Rep. Connolly.
* Statement for the Record, Jewish organizations, No Bailout
for Sanctuary Cities Act; submitted by Rep. Connolly.
* Statement for the Record, Interfaith letter, Supporting
Jurisdictions that Welcome Immigrants; submitted by Rep.
Connolly.
* Report, CAP, ``Trump's Rash Immigration Actions Place Cruelty
and Spectacle Above Security''; submitted by Rep. Ansari.
* Article, Gazette, ``$2M to Defend Denver, City Hires Law Firm
Before Johnston's Sanctuary City Hearing''; submitted by Rep.
Boebert.
* Article, Gazette, ``Denver Mayor Offloads Immigrants on
Aurora''; submitted by Rep. Boebert.
INDEX OF DOCUMENTS
----------
* Article, 9News, ``Denver passes immigration ordinance
restricting city cooperation with ICE''; submitted by Rep.
Boebert.
* Article, 9News, ``Denver, Aurora Mayors say Venezuelan gang
coverage is exaggerated''; submitted by Rep. Boebert.
* Newcomers Playbook: A Guide To Welcoming Newcomers Into Your
City, Denver, April 2024; submitted by Rep. Boebert.
* Press Deck-City and County of Denver 2025 Proposed Budget;
submitted by Rep. Boebert.
* Report, Cato Institute, ``President Obama: Deporter-In-
Chief''; submitted by Rep. Cloud.
* Article, NPR, ``Criminal records of Jan. 6 rioters pardoned
by Trump include rape, domestic violence''; submitted by Rep.
Connolly.
* Article, Associated Press, ``Trump is putting mass
deportations at the heart of his campaign''; submitted by Rep.
Connolly.
* Article, BBC, ``Trump vows to use U.S. military for mass
deportations''; submitted by Rep. Connolly.
* Letter, February 21, 2025, from Reps. Connolly, Lee, Raskin,
and McBath, to Attorney General Pamela Bondi, re: Corruption;
submitted by Rep. Connolly.
* X Post, ICE Denver, ``Suspected TdA Gang Member Released from
Denver Co Jail''; submitted by Rep. Crank.
* Article, The Economist, ``How Boston became the safest big
city in America''; submitted by Rep. Crockett.
* Article, Wired, ``U.S. Funding Cuts Are Helping Criminals Get
Away With Child Abuse and Human Trafficking''; submitted by
Rep. Crockett.
* Report, InsightCrime, ``2024 Homicide Round-Up''; submitted
by Rep. Crockett.
* Report, USAFacts.org, ``Which States Rely the Most on Federal
Aid'' submitted by Rep. Crockett.
* Report, Chicago Office of the Inspector General, ``Advisory
Concerning Gifts Accepted on Behalf of the City''; submitted by
Rep. Gill.
* 8 U.S. Code Sec. 1324; submitted by Rep. Greene.
* Article, NewsNationNow, ``Chicago police reminded they can't
cooperate with mass deportation raids''; submitted by Rep.
Jack.
* Article, CBS, ``Denver Mayor Johnston rebukes Congressional
Republicans after Committee request to testify''; submitted by
Rep. Luna.
* Boston Trust Act 2019; submitted by Rep. Luna.
* Letter, Hagan Scotten Resignation; submitted by Rep. Ocasio-
Cortez.
* Letter, Resignation of Danielle Sassoon; submitted by Rep.
Ocasio-Cortez.
* Article, USA Today, ``DHS agents shift to deportation instead
of trafficking''; submitted by Rep. Pressley.
* Article, NPR, ``Fearful amid ICE crackdowns, some immigrants
are skipping health care''; submitted by Rep. Pressley.
* Article, Hechinger Report, ``Parents Pull Kids from Childcare
Due To Immigration Fears''; submitted by Rep. Pressley.
* Article, Boston Globe, ``Trump's Immigration Policies Prompt
Some Children to Skip School''; submitted by Rep. Pressley.
* Article, CNN, ``11-Year-Old Died by Suicide After Bullying
Over Immigration Status''; submitted by Rep. Pressley.
INDEX OF DOCUMENTS
----------
* Report, Joint Economic Committee, ``Mass Deportations Would
Deliver a Catastrophic Blow to the U.S. Economy''; submitted by
Rep. Pressley.
* Report, CATO, ``Illegal Immigration and Crime in Texas'';
submitted by Rep. Pressley.
* Report, American Immigration Council, ``Mass Deportation:
Devastating Costs to America, Its Budget and Economy'';
submitted by Reps. Pressley and Ansari.
* Article, New York Times, ``Trump Administration Is Frustrated
Over Pace of Deportations''; submitted by Rep. Randall.
* Article, Northwestern Now, ``Immigrants are significantly
less likely to commit crimes than the U.S.-born''; submitted by
Rep. Stansbury.
* Article, NPR, ``Immigrants less likely to commit crimes than
U.S.-born''; submitted by Rep. Stansbury.
* Article, Stanford, ``The mythical tie between immigration and
crime''; submitted by Rep. Stansbury.
* Article, Scientific American, ``Undocumented Immigrants Half
as Likely to Be Arrested for Violent Crimes as U.S.'';
submitted by Rep. Stansbury.
The documents listed are available at: docs.house.gov.
ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTS
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* Questions for the Record: to Mayor Johnston; submitted by
Rep. Mace.
* Questions for the Record: to Mayor Wu; submitted by Rep.
Mace.
* Questions for the Record: to Mayor Adams; submitted by Rep.
Mace.
* Questions for the Record: to Mayor Johnson; submitted by Rep.
Mace.
These documents were submitted after the hearing, and may be
available upon request.
A HEARING WITH SANCTUARY CITY MAYORS
----------
Wednesday, March 5, 2025
U.S. House of Representatives
Committee on Oversight and Government Reform
Washington, D.C.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:03 a.m., in
room HVC-210, Capitol Visitor Center, Hon. James Comer
(Chairman of the Committee) presiding.
Present: Representatives Comer, Jordan, Turner, Gosar,
Foxx, Grothman, Cloud, Palmer, Higgins, Sessions, Biggs, Mace,
Fallon, Donalds, Perry, Timmons, Burchett, Greene, Boebert,
Luna, Langworthy, Burlison, Crane, Jack, McGuire, Gill,
Connolly, Norton, Lynch, Krishnamoorthi, Khanna, Brown,
Stansbury, Garcia, Frost, Lee, Casar, Crockett, Randall,
Subramanyam, Ansari, Bell, Simon, Min, Pressley, and Tlaib.
Also present: LaHood, Evans, Crank, Hurd, Ocasio-Cortez,
Gillen, and Davis.
Chairman Comer. The hearing on the Committee of Oversight
and Government Reform will come to order. I want to welcome
everyone here today.
Without objection, the Chair may declare a recess at any
time.
I now recognize myself for the purpose of delivering an
opening statement.
Good morning and welcome to today's full Committee hearing
on sanctuary cities with the mayors of four American cities:
Boston, New York, Chicago, and Denver. Over the past 4 years,
the Biden Administration created the worst border crisis in
American history. The Democrats said that President Biden did
not have the power or the money to stop the flow of illegal
aliens at the Southwest border. It turns out the only thing
President Biden did not have was the willpower. In a few short
weeks, President Trump has proved what we all know to be true.
The Biden Administration could have stopped a crisis at any
moment, if only they had the courage to enforce the law.
Since President Trump assumed office, illegal entries at
the Southwest border have plummeted to a 94-percent drop in 1
month--94 percent. Under President Trump, the world knows that
there are consequences for unlawful entry into the United
States. The border crisis was not the result of climate change,
a lack of resources, or a failure to grant amnesty. It was the
result of the last Administration's deliberate choice.
President Biden enacted policy starting on the day he assumed
office to allow millions of unvetted, illegal aliens to pour
into the United States. Many of these illegal aliens have long
rap sheets that include violent crimes. President Trump has an
electoral mandate from the American people to deliver on his
promises to secure the border and enforce the immigration laws
of the United States, and he is delivering on this promise big
time.
The mayors here today each lead so-called sanctuary cities.
And let us be clear--these policies only create sanctuary for
criminals. Sanctuary policies violate Federal immigration law
by protecting criminal aliens at the expense of the American
people. Sanctuary cities and states refuse to cooperate with
Federal immigration enforcement efforts and harbor illegal
aliens. They often actively work to stand in the way of
President Trump's mission to protect the American people and
restore integrity to the American immigration system and the
rule of law. Sanctuary cities forbid their officials, including
those in law enforcement and public safety roles, from sharing
information about illegal aliens in their cities with the
Federal Government or turning over criminals in their custody
to ICE. As a result, sanctuary cities release criminal illegal
aliens back onto the streets where they often go on to commit
more crimes.
In Chicago, for example, an illegal alien who was recently
arrested for killing a 63-year-old man had previously been
arrested in Chicago for trying to lure a child. ICE lodged a
detainer against a criminal alien, but Chicago authorities
released him back onto the street because of the city's
reckless sanctuary policy, and now an innocent man is dead
because of Chicago's refusal to follow the law. These reckless
sanctuary policies also force Federal immigration officers to
go into local communities to apprehend criminal illegal aliens.
If sanctuary cities were to simply communicate and work
with Federal immigration authorities, then Federal agents could
arrest criminal illegal aliens in a secure environment, like a
state or local jail. Instead, they have to risk their own
safety and public safety by having to go into uncertain,
dangerous circumstances just to make arrests. Sanctuary cities
make us all less safe and are a public safety nightmare. That
is why I launched an investigation into sanctuary cities and
why these mayors are here today. We cannot let pro-criminal
alien policies and obstructionist sanctuary cities continue to
endanger American communities and the safety of Federal
immigration enforcement officers.
Today, Mayors Wu, Johnson, Johnston, and Adams will be
publicly accountable for their failure to follow the law and
protect the American people. President Trump and his
Administration are taking action against sanctuary cities, and
Congress must follow not by allowing a single penny of Federal
funding to go to cities and states that prioritize criminal
aliens over the American people.
I now yield to Ranking Member Connolly for his opening
statement.
Mr. Connolly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Every Member here
today, Democrats and Republicans alike, agrees that violent
criminals do not belong in our communities. We all want our
cities to be safe and have zero tolerance for violent crime,
irrespective of the status of the perpetrator. Where we
disagree is that my Republican colleagues prefer a selective
application of the law to shield the President of the United
States from accountability and this Administration from the
rule of law itself. In America, we uphold the rule of law,
independent from partisan politics without fear or favor.
Betraying those convictions, President Trump's Department
of Justice has tried to force the conditional dismissal of very
serious charges against one of our witnesses here today in
exchange for that witness' total and complete submission to the
radical immigration agenda being propounded by the
Administration. And the DOJ has done so over the objections of
a Republican acting U.S. Attorney whom President Trump
appointed. Rather than enabling a flagrant corruptive quid pro
quo, seven Federal prosecutors, seven, including Republicans,
resigned. One of them, a former clerk to Chief Justice John
Roberts of the Supreme Court, said that anyone in his position
``would know that our laws and traditions do not allow using
the prosecutorial power to influence other citizens, much less
elected officials in this way.'' History is calling on us now
to stand up for those laws and traditions. Doing so also
demands an affirmation of state and local sovereignty in
determining the most effective ways to keep residents safe in
compliance with Federal law. To deny this sovereignty is an
assault on the independence of every American city across the
country.
Today, Republicans have hauled before us the mayors of four
major American cities to frame them as lawless because those
cities have some limits in how intrusively and aggressively
their own officials can conduct Federal immigration operations
and responsibilities. Let us be clear: the state and local laws
that Republicans have issue with today are in full compliance
with Federal law. They do not obstruct ICE from carrying out
its duties, and they are backed by evidence demonstrating that
they keep people safe and safer in counties with laws that do
not honor extrajudicial civil detainers and had significantly
lower levels of violent crime than counties that have them.
Mayors, police chiefs, sheriffs, and local leaders have made
clear that the way to combat violent crime is allowing the
local police to do their local job of ensuring public safety in
their own communities as they account for it. Commandeering
them to spend limited time and resources as Federal agents is a
non-starter and can contribute to crime and non-cooperation in
immigrant communities throughout the country.
At this year's Conservative Political Action Conference,
Border Czar Tom Homan said he is ``bringing hell'' to the city
of Boston until it complies with his demands. I do not know
what that means. Boston is my hometown, and I am glad to
welcome our mayor, Mayor Wu, and her 1-month-old baby here
today, but I do not know that Boston welcomes Mr. Homan or
anyone else bringing hell to the city.
The Republican crusade against local independence does not
just undermine public safety in our communities. It is
blatantly cruel, and I say, inhumane and un-American. Kenia
Colindres, her husband, Wilson Rogelio Velasquez Cruz, and
their three children came to the United States in 2022 seeking
asylum, a legal category of immigration, after escaping
violence in Honduras. Wilson was granted a 5-year work permit
allowing him to work at a tire shop and to provide for his
family here in the United States. Kenia said that her husband
had never been in trouble and was ``a man of God.'' On January
26, the family of five was in church when Wilson was lured out
by an ICE agent waiting to arrest him. Despite having valid
work permits, the Trump Administration refused to hear his
appeal and is actively deporting him. Wilson was the sole
breadwinner for his family. Now Kenia has to worry about how
she is going to pay the bills and take care of her three
children, on top of the fears that she and her children might
be next.
Last week in El Monte, California, Xitlali, a woman who is
battling bone cancer, tearfully watched as her mother, Yolanda,
cried inconsolably as she was detained by ICE agents, who
refused to even present the detention order. Yolanda was
Xitlali's sole caretaker in her struggle against cancer and has
no criminal record, and now Xitlali is on her own.
ICE is also conducting massive raids in cities and towns
that have led to the wrongful detention of U.S. citizens,
including Native Americans and military veterans. One school
district sent a letter to parents warning that ICE may board
school buses and demand documents from children. Children are
going to be afraid to go to school. One reportedly wrote a
goodbye note to friends saying, ``If ICE takes me, do not
forget about me.'' ``If ICE takes me, do not forget about me,''
from a child. Is that the country we want?
America needs immigration policies to keep everyone safe
and make the country stronger, and allow us to grow and fill in
the skill sets we do not have. If President Trump was serious
about delivering those solutions, he would not be attacking the
Constitution's guarantee of citizenship to children born in the
United States. To see our country through this period of
darkness, we need leaders who will stand up for the rule of law
and will champion public safety at the local level, and
American families, whether they are immigrant families or
native-born families, deserve due process, deserve respect, and
deserve that Statue of Liberty that welcomes all comers. I
yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Ranking Member yields back. I request
unanimous consent that Representatives LaHood of Illinois,
LaLota of New York, Crank of Colorado, Malliotakis of New York,
Hurd of Colorado, Evans of Colorado, Van Duyne of Texas,
Ocasio-Cortez of New York, Gillen of New York, and Davis of
Illinois be waived onto today's hearing for the purpose of
asking questions.
Without objection, so ordered.
Before we introduce the witnesses, I recognize Mr. Higgins
from Louisiana for 20 seconds.
Mr. Higgins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I thank the
Ranking Member as well. Just to briefly respectfully recognize
the presence of the family of Wesley Haynes, a constituent. I
will speak to his case in my time, Mr. Chairman. His parents,
Patrick and Kathy, his wife Olivia, his little brother Brady,
are present today, and they have a hard exit soon. Their 4-
month-old daughter, Ann Marie, is waiting at home for Olivia to
care for her, and I just respectfully acknowledge their
presence, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Ranking Member. We will discuss
the details of their case. They tragically lost Wesley Haynes
last year.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for allowing me to recognize this
beautiful American family.
Chairman Comer. Thank you, Mr. Higgins. I am very pleased
today to welcome our outstanding witness panel, the mayors of
four major American cities.
First, we have Mayor Eric Adams, who is an outstanding
Mayor of New York City. He was sworn into office on January 1,
2022. We have Mayor Mike Johnston, who is the Mayor of the City
and County of Denver. He was sworn into office on July 17,
2023. I now recognize Representative Krishnamoorthi from
Illinois for 1 minute to introduce our next witness.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Mr. Chair, I am pleased to introduce
Brandon Johnson, Mayor of the greatest city in the world,
namely Chicago, a city that was built by generations of
immigrants, people like my parents and myself. Mayor Johnson
was raised in Elgin, Illinois, which I am proud to represent in
Congress. The Mayor was 1 of 10 children born to Andrew and
Wilma Jean Johnson. His parents inspired him to become a
teacher in the Chicago Public Schools and then later to run for
office. Mayor Johnson won his first race for Cook County
Commissioner in 2018 and later became Mayor of Chicago in 2023.
Mayor Johnson has dedicated his life to public service, and I
am pleased to welcome my fellow Illinoian to the U.S. House of
Representatives and to the Oversight Committee. Welcome, mayor.
Chairman Comer. I now recognize Representative Pressley
from Massachusetts for 1 minute to introduce our next witness.
Ms. Pressley. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am proud to introduce
Mayor Michelle Wu, a dedicated leader, committed to making
Boston a welcoming home for everyone and the first woman and
person of color to be elected Mayor in the city of Boston. For
over a decade, I have had the privilege of working alongside
Mayor Wu and witnessing her dedication to public service
firsthand. She leads with compassion. She is innovative and
inclusive. Under her leadership, Boston has become the safest
major city in America, a city that is welcoming to families
from all walks of life. Just weeks ago, she welcomed her newest
family member, Baby Mira, who is with us today, a beautiful
reminder of the future she is working to build. Madam Mayor, I
am grateful for your partnership, friendship, and leadership.
Thank you for being here.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady yields back. And finally, we
are also joined by Mr. David Bier, who is the Director of
Immigration Studies at the Cato Institute. Mr. Bier is the
minority witness here today. I want to thank you all again for
joining us, and I look forward to our discussion this
afternoon.
Pursuant to Committee Rule 9(g), the witnesses will please
stand and raise their right hand.
Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are
about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God?
[A chorus of ayes.]
Chairman Comer. Let the record show that the witnesses
answered in the affirmative. Thank you all. You may take a
seat. We again appreciate you being here today and look forward
to your testimony.
Now let me remind the witnesses that we have read your
written statement, and they will appear in full in the hearing
record. Please limit your oral statement to 5 minutes and we
are going to limit our questions to 5 minutes, and that is
going to be enforced today, and that is for both sides.
As a reminder, please press the button on the microphone in
front of you so that it is on, and the Members can hear you.
When you begin to speak, the light in front of you will turn
green. After 4 minutes, the light will turn yellow. When the
red light comes on, your 5 minutes have expired, and we would
ask that you please wrap up.
I now recognize Mayor Adams for his opening statement.
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE ERIC ADAMS
MAYOR
CITY OF NEW YORK
Mr. Adams. Well, good morning, Chairman Comer, Ranking
Member Connolly, and Members of the Committee. As Mayor of New
York City, and a former police officer for 22 years, keeping
New York as safe is my top priority and it has been our
administration's North Star. When I entered this role, my job
was to help our city recover from the negative effects of
COVID, most importantly, to bring down crime. As a result,
overall crime was down across New York City last year, and we
have now had 3 straight months of double-digit declines in
major crimes. I am here today to testify on how New York City
can continue to reduce crime even as a sanctuary city.
To be clear, a sanctuary city classification does not mean
our city will ever be a safe haven for violent criminals. It
also does not give New York City the authority to violate
Federal immigration laws. To the contrary, New York City will
always comply with city, state, and Federal laws as it does
now. Law-abiding immigrants in New York have an important role.
Immigrant New Yorkers, including those who are undocumented,
pay billions of dollars in taxes and contribute billions more
in spending power to our economy. Immigrants also play a vital
role in the functioning of the city. This was on full display
during the COVID-19 pandemic. The various immigrant residents
of our city worked to keep the city moving while many other New
Yorkers were able to shelter in place and work remotely.
Hospitals, the food industry, and many other businesses were
able to function because of the commitment of our immigrant
population.
As Mayor, I do not control who enters or remains in our
country, but I do have to manage the population that is within
our city. In order to carry out this function without having
long-term negative ramification, I must create an atmosphere
that allows every law-abiding resident, documented or not, to
access vital services without fear of being turned over to
Federal authorities. I cannot have a city where parents are
afraid to send their children to school or where children are
sleeping on the streets, creating the potential for child
exploitation and sex trafficking. If an undocumented person
refuses to seek medical care until they have a medical
emergency, our city's healthcare system will be strained. And
if an undocumented individual witnesses a crime but is afraid
to call 9-1-1 for fear of being turned over to Federal
authorities, criminals will roam free.
It reminds me of my early days as a police officer. I have
seen firsthand the damage that can be done when someone is too
afraid to seek out the police. Early in my career, I responded
to a man who was calling out for help. We caught the suspect,
but when it came to filling out the police report, the
individual, an undocumented man from China, said he did not
want to file a report and put a target on his back with Federal
immigration authorities.
Approximately 4 decades later, our country still is in
desperate need of comprehensive immigration reform. And as a
result, New York City was hit with the largest humanitarian
crisis in our city's history over the last 3 years. Federal law
did not allow me to stop buses from entering New York City.
State law requires me to provide all in our city with housing
and meals and to educate children. City law makes it unlawful
to collaborate with ICE for civil enforcement. We comply with
all of these legal requirements and still manage the
humanitarian crisis with care and compassion, while at the same
time bringing down crime, recovering our economy, and
preventing any child from being forced to sleep on the streets.
Comprehensive immigration reform is long overdue. While the
solution is not within my control as a mayor, I am committed to
working with Federal officials to go after violent gangs and
those who harm residents of our city. This is why we have over
330 NYPD officers assigned to different Federal joint task
forces, over 70 of which are assigned to task forces with
Homeland Security Investigation, the criminal investigation arm
of ICE. Those task forces focus on many different important
priorities, including going after violent gangs and child
exploitation.
I look forward to sharing New York City collaborations that
we do daily with our city, state, and Federal partners to keep
New York City to continue to be the safest big city in America.
Thank you.
Chairman Comer. Thank you. I now recognize Denver Mayor
Johnston for his opening statement.
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE MIKE JOHNSTON
MAYOR
CITY AND COUNTY OF DENVER
Mr. Johnston. Good morning, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for
inviting me to testify today.
This Committee convened this hearing on the critical topic
of immigration. I want to tell you Denver's story. When I
became Mayor 20 months ago, Denver was already receiving buses
of immigrants with little to no notice or coordination. At one
point, we were receiving 10 to 11 buses a day, dropping off as
many as 300 people, mostly women and children in 10-degree
weather with only sandals and a tee shirt, leaving them in
danger of freezing to death on our streets. All told, 42,000
people arrived in Denver over 18 months, the largest per capita
influx of any city in America.
We are each entitled to our own opinion about what should
happen at the border, but that was not the question facing
Denver. The question Denver faced was, what will you do with a
mom and two kids dropped on the streets of our city with no
warm clothes, no food, and no place to stay? As Mayor, I have
to protect the health and safety of everyone in our city. As a
man of faith, I have a moral obligation to care for those in
need. As Scripture says, ``For I was hungry and you gave me
something to eat. I was thirsty, you gave me something to
drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me in.'' So, that is
what we did.
In Denver, we believe our problems are solvable and we are
the ones to solve them, so we went to work. When we started, we
had the largest encampment in Denver history with more than 200
migrant families living in freezing temperatures, so we opened
eight different city shelters housing 5,000 people. City
employees volunteered to take extra shifts, and Denver
residents stepped up, making meals, donating clothes,
furniture, school supplies. Some even welcomed families into
their own homes. We helped 8,700 eligible individuals apply for
work authorization so they could put food on their own table,
pay their own rent, and reduce the strain on public resources.
As a result, a year later, there is not a single migrant
encampment left in the city. We have closed all of our
shelters. We have connected people to jobs and housing, and the
city's immigrant support budget has dropped by nearly 90
percent, and in the midst of this, migrants did not bring a
wave of crime to Denver. In fact, crime went down. Homicides
dropped 17 percent. Shooting victims dropped 24 percent. Auto
theft down 29 percent.
America is not just a place, it is a belief. Some people
are born into it. Some fight their whole life to get to it. It
is a belief that all are created equal. It is a belief that it
does not matter where you came from if you are willing to fight
hard enough. Julian Becerra's parents believed that, so they
brought him to this country from Mexico when he was 10. They
taught him respect, and they taught him to love and serve his
community. As an adult, he decided the most honorable way to
serve his community was in uniform, so he enlisted in the Air
Force. Then he served as a sheriff, then finally as a police
officer, where he served with distinction until 1 day he was
pursuing a criminal on a dangerous bridge and fell to his
death.
In the midst of the immigration crisis, I attended the
fallen officer's memorial as I watched officers hand Officer
Becerra's 10-year-old daughter a folded American flag. I
watched her cry as she wrapped her little arms around that flag
and holding it tight the way she wished she could hold her dad
but never will again. For the rest of her life, she will
cherish that flag, that American flag, because it is the
country that her dad loved. It is the country he chose. It is
the country he served. It is the country he gave his life for.
So, if we want to tell the story of what impact immigrants have
in America, we must tell the full story. That story must
acknowledge that this country is lucky to have people like
Julian Becerra, who love this country enough to risk their
lives, to keep us safe, to keep all of us safe.
When buses started showing up filled with migrants, some in
my city were afraid, just like I am sure some of your
constituents were afraid. They were afraid about crime and
homelessness, and worried about what these new people might
take away from them. I understand that fear, and the truth is,
people who are new to this country do good and bad just like
all of us, but there is another truth. When those buses kept on
coming, Denver made a choice as a city, not to hate each other,
but to help each other, not to turn on each other, but to turn
to each other and see if together we could solve a problem that
felt bigger than any one of us, and that is what we did. It was
not perfect and it required sacrifice from all of us, but in
the end, Denver came out stronger and closer than we were
before because Americans expect us to do more than point
fingers. They expect us to solve problems.
So, if Denver can find a way to put aside our ideological
differences long enough to manage a crisis we did not choose or
create, it seems only fair to ask that the body that is
actually charged with solving this national problem, this
Congress, can finally commit to do the same. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
Chairman Comer. Thank you. I now recognize Chicago Mayor
Johnson for his opening statement.
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE BRANDON JOHNSON
MAYOR
CITY OF CHICAGO
Mr. Johnson. Thank you, Chairman Comer. Thank you to the
Ranking Member Connolly and to Members of this Committee. I
have the great privilege and honor of serving as Mayor of the
city of Chicago, the third largest city in the Nation.
Established by a Black Haitian man and a Potawatomi woman,
Chicago is and always has been a proud city of immigrants.
Generations of new arrivals, including the descendants of the
enslaved during the Great Migration, created a vibrant city
where one in five residents is foreign born. Each day, I wake
up to serve every one of Chicago's 77 unique neighborhoods and
those who live in our great city.
As Mayor of Chicago, nothing is more important to me than
the safety and well-being of all residents, and since I was
elected, my administration has been laser focused on creating
and implementing public safety initiatives that protect all
Chicagoans. We launched the People's Plan for Community Safety,
which builds trust between communities and law enforcement by
prioritizing transparency and violence intervention. We
established a dedicated robbery task force that reduced
robberies by 25 percent citywide. We added over 200 detectives,
increasing the clearance rates on our cases, and we have
updated police equipment and technology so that our police
officers have the tools they need to effectively prevent and
fight crime.
Our efforts to improve public safety by building trust with
and investing in our communities are working. Violent crime is
down in Chicago. The city ended 2024 with its lowest homicide
rate in 5 years. The city is also safer because of our
Welcoming City Ordinance. That law makes sure that the city's
police resources are focused on our local priorities. In fact,
40 years of Chicago's leaders have recognized that our policies
toward civil immigration matters help to prevent and solve
crimes.
Put simply, any actions that amplify fears of deportations
make Chicago more dangerous. Those fears cause witnesses and
victims to avoid cooperating with police. The cooperation of
all people, regardless of their immigration status, is
essential to achieving the city's goals of reducing crime and
pursuing justice for victims. When there is trust between
cities' residents and the police, undocumented immigrants come
forward to report crimes to local law enforcement and provide
information that helps the police solve those crimes.
And now, I know there are myths about these laws, but we
must not let mischaracterizations and fearmongering obscure the
reality that Chicago's crime rates are trending down. We still
have a long way to go, but sensationalizing tragedy in the name
of political expediency is not governing. It is grandstanding.
Every violent crime is devastating, but scapegoating entire
communities is not only misleading, it is unjust and it is
beneath us. So, let me be clear. Chicago's Welcoming City
Ordinance and our other laws and policies do not lead to more
crime. They do not prevent cooperation with Federal law
enforcement on criminal matters, and we do not harbor
criminals. We arrest them, often because of laws that allow
residents to feel safe helping the police.
As Mayor, I am building a Chicago that embodies the dream
that my father had when he came from Sallis, Mississippi during
the Second Migration, a Chicago that invest in housing,
healthcare, jobs, and education. And that is why we have
increased safe and stable housing by adding almost 4,000 more
units, expanded access to healthcare by opening three mental
health centers, and focused on getting our young people well-
paying jobs with summer jobs increasing by 45 percent since I
have taken office.
Our local partnerships have built a solid foundation for a
better, stronger, and a much safer Chicago. We need this body
of support for these efforts. We are ready to partner with you
on the measures we know promote trust and create sustainable
public safety. And to the people of Chicago and all hardworking
people across this great Nation, these values are our North
Star, the drinking gourd we follow to a better future. We will
not live in fear. It is not our portion. We will not go back. I
do look forward to answering the questions of this Committee.
Thank you.
Chairman Comer. Thank you. I now recognize Boston Mayor Wu
for her opening statement.
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE MICHELLE WU
MAYOR
CITY OF BOSTON
Ms. Wu. Thank you. Chairman Comer, Ranking Member Connolly,
and Members of the Committee, my name is Michelle Wu. I am the
daughter of immigrants, and since November 2021, I have had the
honor of serving as Mayor of Boston. I am proud to be here on
behalf of our city--the police officers, first responders, city
workers, the faith leaders, teachers, parents, and neighbors,
who partner every day to make Boston the safest major city in
the Nation. And I am proud every day to work alongside the
greatest police commissioner in the Nation, Commissioner
Michael Cox.
Every year since I took office, we have set a new record
low for gun violence in Boston. Last year, Boston saw the
fewest homicides on record in the last 70 years. Those are the
facts, and behind these record lows are historic highs: the
most-ever young people working paid summer jobs, the most pre-K
seats at no cost to families, the most affordable housing built
in a generation. We have invested in the kinds of opportunities
that cultivate prosperity and eradicate crime, and the laws on
our books promote the kind of community trust that keeps all of
us safe.
In Boston, our police department resources and taxpayer
dollars go toward preventing and solving crimes, and when it
comes to criminal matters, the Boston police partner every day
with state and Federal law enforcement. But Massachusetts state
law and the Boston Trust Act make clear that immigration is
Federal law enforcement's responsibility. We are the safest
major city in the country because our gun laws are the
strongest in the Nation, because our officers have built
relationships over decades, and because all of our residents
can trust that when they call 9-1-1 in the event of an
emergency or to report a crime, help will come.
This Federal Administration's approach is undermining that
trust. In the past month, I have met with residents and faith
leaders in community centers and places of worship, asking my
constituents what they want Congress to know, and what I heard
over and over again was fear and frustration. I spoke with
pastors whose pews are half empty on Sundays, doctors whose
patients are missing appointments, teachers whose students are
not coming to class, neighbors afraid to report crimes in their
communities, and victims of violence who will not call the
police. This Federal administration is making hardworking, tax-
paying, God-fearing residents afraid to live their lives. A
city that is scared, is not a city that is safe. A land ruled
by fear is not the land of the free.
Next month, Boston will celebrate 250 years of our Nation's
freedom, and in every one of those years, Boston has welcomed
the world to our shores, from the English immigrants fleeing
religious persecution, to the Irish forced out by famine, to
the families from Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Cabo Verde,
Vietnam, and so many more who call Boston home today.
We are the safest major city in the Nation. We are home to
the greatest healthcare, the greatest colleges and
universities, the most advanced innovators, and the 2024 World
Champion Boston Celtics. We are the cradle of democracy and the
city of champions. We are all of these things, not in spite of
our immigrants, but because of them.
One in seven signers of the Declaration of Independence
were immigrants. On the last four Red Sox rosters to win a
World Series, one in five were immigrants. Of all the faculty
at Boston University to have earned a Nobel Prize, all but one
were immigrants. Today, one in four Boston residents were born
somewhere else. Most have jobs, many have kids, all of them
chose this country as their home because, like my mom and dad,
they believed that here, where you have been does not limit
where you are going, the strength of your character has nothing
to do with the color of your passport, and that how hard you
work matters more than where you were born. That wherever you
are from, if you pitch in, look out for your neighbors and
cheer for the home team, you can build a better future here for
the people you love.
So, to every one of my neighbors back in Boston, know this,
you belong here. This is your home. [Speaking foreign
language.] This is our city. We are the safest major city in
the Nation because we are safe for everyone. Thank you.
Chairman Comer. Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Bier for his
opening statement.
STATEMENT OF DAVID J. BIER
DIRECTOR OF IMMIGRATION STUDIES
THE CATO INSTITUTE
Mr. Bier. Chairman Comer, Ranking Member Connolly, and
distinguished Members of the Committee, thank you for the
opportunity to testify.
The Cato Institute's half-century of independent research
demonstrates that people of all races, religions, and
birthplaces can thrive in a free society. Liberty must be
protected, both from over-intrusive government and from private
violence. Unfortunately, the President's chaotic,
indiscriminate deportation plan does the opposite. It harms
public safety, threatens Americans' rights, and undermines the
successful integration of America's immigrants into its society
and economy.
The President's first action was to rescind the requirement
that ICE target public safety threats first. He has ordered
that millions of vetted immigrants be stripped of lawful status
and deported. He is even attempting to deport the U.S.-born
children of people without permanent status. This flagrantly
unconstitutional act effectively orders a series of crimes,
wrongful arrest, and imprisonment, civil rights violations, and
unlawful deprivation of voting rights. Never before in American
history has a President sought the power to strip potentially
tens of millions of Americans of their constitutional rights.
The President is also explicitly asserting the authority to
ignore any law passed by you, Congress, that provides due
process for people accused of being in the country illegally.
The Administration has repeatedly misled you and the public
about who it is targeting, stating it would focus on public
safety threats, that only the worst of the worst would be sent
to Guantanamo Bay, and that every person it had arrested had a
criminal record. We now know that most ICE arrests since the
inauguration have been people without a criminal record.
Indeed, he is arresting people who entered legally, never
violated any law, and sending them to Guantanamo Bay Prison.
It is no surprise in this lawless environment that many
people and many cities simply do not trust the Federal
Government on immigration. That is a problem, but under our
Constitution, states determine their policies. Congress cannot
force them. It must reestablish trust. Unfortunately, some
Members of Congress want to force an indiscriminate policy of
mass deportation on the entire country with no public safety
focus. If Congress wants more cooperation, it should address
the concerns of these cities. What Congress should do is
reestablish trust.
An indiscriminate mass deportation agenda is a far greater
threat to public safety than any city policy. A mountain of
empirical research shows that reasonable restrictions on ICE
cooperation do not increase crime rates and that immigrants
lower crime rates. Immigrants, including illegal immigrants,
commit crimes serious enough for them to be incarcerated at
half the rate of U.S.-born Americans. Data from Texas shows
that illegal immigrants are 36 percent less likely to commit
and be convicted of murder. At least before this current mass
deportation effort, immigrants were more likely to report
crimes than U.S.-born Americans. Do not jeopardize that.
Mass deportation is diverting law enforcement resources
away from obtaining justice for victims. Indeed, it even
targets the victims. Sabotaging local economies and
obliterating communities will not restore public safety. It
will make us poor while increasing the crime rate and
victimization rate for Americans. There is a better approach.
We do not need chaos and disorder of illegal immigration or of
mass deportation.
Why do people not come legally? Because Congress has
provided so few options for them to do so, not updating its
laws in the last 31/2 decades. Just 3 percent of those applying
for permanent legal status in 2024 received it. That is the
failed policy. Let peaceful immigrants pay to get vetted, work,
and contribute legally, and let law enforcement at all levels
focus on keeping Americans safe. Thank you.
Chairman Comer. Our witnesses have concluded their opening
statements. We are going to begin with questions from Members.
And I want to remind the Members, we have 60 Members today that
are going to ask questions, so I am going to strictly enforce
the 5 minutes. I will hit the gavel if anyone is still talking,
and we will allow the witnesses to answer the question. But let
us, please, be mindful we have a lot of questioners today for
this very important hearing, and, again, we thank the
witnesses.
I will recognize myself to begin questions for 5 minutes,
and I have limited time, so I want to start with a simple yes
or no question. And I am going to hold you all to that because
after the first question, then we will allow for a little more
time. But, Mayor Johnston, in 2017, Denver prohibited city
officials, including corrections officers, from assisting and
cooperating with any investigation, detention, or arrest
procedures related to Federal immigration laws. The city also
stated that Federal immigration authorities shall not be
granted access or allowed to use the secure areas of any city
or county jail. Mayor Johnston, is Denver a sanctuary city?
Mr. Johnston. A lot of folks use that term----
Chairman Comer. Yes or no.
Mr. Johnston. Sorry, Mr. Chairman. Folks use that term
differently. I can tell you what Denver does. We do not----
Chairman Comer. OK. I take that as a ``yes''. Yes or no. I
take that as a ``yes''. Mayor Johnson, on March 10, 2023, you
posted on X that Chicago must lead and live by the promise to
be a sanctuary city. Is Chicago a sanctuary city?
Mr. Johnson. A 40-year policy of being a welcoming city.
Chairman Comer. Yes.
Mr. Johnson. A 40-year policy----
Chairman Comer. I take that as a ``yes''.
Mr. Johnson [continuing]. Of being a welcoming city.
Chairman Comer. Mayor Wu, in November 2024, you gave an
interview noting that you served on the city council a decade
ago when the Boston Trust Act was first passed. You said in
that interview that in terms of Boston's policy, there is a
prohibition on resources and personnel going to enforce civil
immigration detainers, meaning Boston Police and other
departments cannot cooperate with ICE when it comes to
detaining on civil warrants. Mayor, is Boston a sanctuary city?
Ms. Wu. Boston is a safe city.
Chairman Comer. I take that as a ``yes''. And Mayor Adams,
on November 12, 2024, you said, ``This is a sanctuary city.''
But I must comment that you have--of the witnesses today of the
major cities--you have publicly stated that you were willing to
work with ICE on detaining the most criminal illegals, and I
want to publicly thank you for that. But my question to you,
sir, is New York City a sanctuary city?
Mr. Adams. Based on our classification, yes.
Chairman Comer. OK. Last year in a Boston suburb, an
illegal alien raped and impregnated his 14-year-old daughter
while living in a shelter for illegal aliens. Mayor Wu, under
Boston law, would you turn this criminal over to ICE on a
detainer?
Ms. Wu. Whenever there is a criminal warrant, Boston police
enforce that and hold people accountable.
Chairman Comer. So, would you turn that criminal over to
ICE?
Ms. Wu. This happened outside the city of Boston, but I can
tell you in the city, whenever someone commits a crime,
whenever there is a criminal warrant, we hold them accountable.
If ICE deems that they are dangerous enough to hold, obtain a
criminal warrant, and the Boston police will enforce it.
Chairman Comer. Will you turn that criminal over to ICE?
Ms. Wu. We follow the laws----
Chairman Comer. I take that as a no.
Ms. Wu [continuing]. And we make sure that everyone is
safe----
Chairman Comer. In Chicago, an illegal alien who is a
suspected member of a violent foreign gang, who was brought
into custody for his potential involvement in a murder. He was
released when Cook County declined to press charges. This
illegal alien is also facing charges for kidnapping and
sexually assaulting his former girlfriend last year. Now, he is
on the streets. Mayor Johnson, under Chicago law, would you
turn this criminal over to ICE on a detainer?
Mr. Johnson. Our local law enforcement works hard every day
to get criminals off the streets of Chicago, and----
Chairman Comer. Would you turn that criminal over to ICE?
That is the problem. That is one of the topics of this
conversation. That is one of the problems we have heard from
Tom Homan and from Homeland Security, is that in your cities,
when someone is apprehended for a crime, and ICE is now, with
this new Federal policy, wanting to come in and deport the
criminal alien, that you will not cooperate with ICE. Will you
turn that criminal over to ICE?
Mr. Johnson. And we do not harbor criminals. Our local
police department works hard every single day to ensure that
the city of Chicago is safe.
Chairman Comer. Yes or no. Will you turn the criminal over
to ICE?
Mr. Johnson. With a criminal warrant from the Federal
Government, our local law enforcement repeatedly collaborates
with Federal agents.
Chairman Comer. So, you are saying publicly today, you will
turn that alien over to ICE in a safe place, like a jail, and
not turn them out on the street and say, here you go, ICE, good
luck. You will turn that criminal over to ICE?
Mr. Johnson. With a criminal warrant, as we have done for
40 years----
Chairman Comer. Should that criminal be turned over to ICE,
sir?
Mr. Johnson. With a criminal warrant, they are subject to
the Federal laws, and that includes deportation.
Chairman Comer. My time has expired. But again, the point
that we have got to iron out today, is that we have to have
cooperation. It is Federal law to turn over those illegal
criminals to ICE, and we have heard reports and many of you
have said publicly that you are going to obstruct that. That is
against the law and we are going to hear more about that today.
Now I recognize the Ranking Member Connolly for his 5 minutes.
Mr. Connolly. Thank you. Mayor Wu, I quoted Tom Homan, the
so-called border czar, saying that he was bringing hell to the
city of Boston. What did you understand him to mean by that?
Ms. Wu. Let us talk about Tom Homan. Shame on him for lying
about my city, for having the nerve to insult our Police
Commissioner, who has overseen the safest Boston has been in
anyone's lifetime. Bring him here under oath and let us ask him
some questions. I am here to make sure that the city of Boston
is safe. Others may want to bring hell. We are here to bring
peace to cities everywhere.
Mr. Connolly. Mayor Johnston of Denver, what would your
reaction be if Tom Homan wants to bring hell to your city,
Denver?
Mr. Johnston. We think that we have folks in Denver who are
working hard, playing by the rules, paying taxes. There is no
one that is seeking hell to come to Denver. What people are
looking for is opportunity and hope, which is why we are
available----
Mr. Connolly. And for the record, he can do whatever he
wants to do, I guess, but the fact of the matter is you
absorbed, on a per capita basis, the largest immigration a year
or two ago, and you indicated that your crime rate actually
fell. It did not increase. Is that correct?
Mr. Johnston. That is correct. Crime is down in Denver. We
have homicides down 17 percent. Violent shootings are down 24
percent----
Mr. Connolly. I am sorry. I have got limited time. Mayor
Wu, same thing in Boston. The Boston crime rate has been
falling, correct?
Ms. Wu. We had 24 homicides last year, 24, too many, but
that represented a tremendous reduction, one of the biggest
drops anywhere in the country.
Mr. Connolly. Thank you. So, the correlation between
immigration and crime is false, as you point out, Mr. Bier.
Perhaps you can elaborate that. I find it ironic that you
characterized correctly, in my view, President Trump and Tom
Homan's approach to immigration as lawless when they are
invoking law and order and crime as the rationale for their
lawlessness. Could you expand on the lawlessness and the irony
of the fact that, as you point out in your testimony, the crime
rate among immigrants is half that of the native population?
Mr. Bier. That is right. I have a table in my written
testimony. You can look at top 20 cities for immigration court
filings over the last 4 years. Nineteen of those cities saw a
decline in their homicide rate. If you look at all of the major
cities, there is a negative correlation between increasing
numbers of immigrants and the homicide rate, so that means more
immigrants, lower homicide rates that holds true across the
United States. So, I think the correlation that is trying to be
made is more immigrants, more illegal immigrants, more chaos,
more crime, that does not hold.
What we do see under this Administration is increasing
willingness to ignore the laws. He has, as I mentioned, signed
an executive order that says he can ignore due process rights
for people who are accused of being in the country illegally.
This is an incredibly dangerous assertion of authority and
should be investigated by Congress.
Mr. Connolly. And is it a reasonable proposition for our
local leader? I know I was Chairman of my county, which is like
being mayor of a large county, and, you know, we focused on
local law enforcement. You know, we tried to help the Feds when
we could. We were cooperative where we could be. But our job
was local law enforcement, and there is a clash when ICE
behaves this way, and I described some horrible incidents. It
instills fear in the immigrant community, and it fosters non-
cooperation rather than cooperation, which is the mandate of
each of these leaders, is it not?
Mr. Bier. Absolutely. We want cooperation. Many of these
cities are the reason why immigrants are more likely to
cooperate and report crimes to the police than the U.S.-born
population is. So, there are good reasons to limit this mass
deportation of people in their communities.
Mr. Connolly. I would just argue that the premise of this
hearing is false. We have local law enforcement cooperating
with the local political leadership, and it is working. It is
bringing down crime rates, and the proposition that immigrants
cause crime is false, in fact, patently false as your
testimony, I think would demonstrate, Mr. Bier, and the idea
that these are sanctuary cities that need to be punished is
simply a war on urban America. And I am proud of the mayors who
are in front of us here today, and I thank them for their
testimony, and I thank them for their service to their local
communities. I relate to it, and I think it is a noble calling.
I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. The Chair
recognizes Ms. Boebert from Colorado.
Ms. Boebert. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mayor Mike Johnston,
I hope we can start off on a level-field of agreement here. So,
in your testimony, you said that locals were asking Denver what
will you do when they saw 10 to 11 buses coming in a day and
42,000 illegal aliens entering their city. Denver, what will
you do? And in a Fox31 interview in January, you blamed state
law for not allowing the city of Denver to coordinate with ICE,
resulting in Denver being a sanctuary city, saying, ``The whole
state is bound by our state law in this, which is pretty
consistent in some of these practices. Like, everywhere in the
state, we do not honor ICE detainers.'' I have demanded
Governor Jared Polis and the Colorado State Legislature to
repeal them. Douglas County has led on a lawsuit to get those
laws repealed. So, Mr. Mayor, would you join me today in
calling and demanding that these sanctuary policies, these
Colorado state laws be repealed?
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, Congresswoman. Let me say----
Ms. Boebert. Yes or no, Mr. Mayor.
Mr. Johnston. Pardon?
Ms. Boebert. Yes or no, will you join me?
Mr. Johnston. I do not believe the detainer law needs to be
changed. I can tell you what Denver does right now----
Ms. Boebert. OK. So, you do not want them to coordinate
with ICE, but yet you are blaming the state of Colorado for
those policies. It is a statewide law, it is not a Denver law,
and you are blaming the state of Colorado for the law, yet you
will not call for that law to be repealed, correct? Yes or no.
Mr. Johnston. We do coordinate with ICE presently. I am
happy to tell you what we do on this. We have honored detainer
requests more than 1,226 times over the last few years.
Ms. Boebert. What about before a warrant? There are many
issues before a warrant.
Mr. Johnston. What happens is if ICE sends us a detainer
request, we would call a----
Ms. Boebert. Well, you have local law enforcement officers,
Mr. Mayor, who are unable to coordinate with ICE to even get
the initial warrant. They are not allowed to tell them that
they are illegal aliens, and unfortunately, you will not join
me in asking for this law demanding that this law be repealed.
So, let us keep going.
In 2017, Denver passed an ordinance that ensured any city
employee who spoke with Federal immigration authorities would
be fired, among other policies that have led to local and
national media outlets to call Denver a sanctuary city. So now
let me ask you, would a city employee be fired for
communicating with anyone from the EPA?
Mr. Johnston. Right now, Congresswoman, our policies, we do
not ask people's status right when they contact any----
Ms. Boebert. Would any city employee be fired for
communicating and coordinating, talking with, an agent from the
EPA, a Federal employee?
Mr. Johnston. Not to my knowledge, Congresswoman.
Ms. Boebert. What about Health and Human Services? Would
they get fired for talking with someone from Health and Human
Services?
Mr. Johnston. Not to my knowledge, Congresswoman.
Ms. Boebert. So, they would only be fired for talking to
Federal law enforcement officers?
Mr. Johnston. No, that is incorrect, Congresswoman. Our----
Ms. Boebert. This is an ordinance----
Mr. Johnston [continuing]. City employees do, in fact----
Ms. Boebert [continuing]. Denver passed in 2017, Mr. Mayor.
Mr. Johnston. Our city employees do, in fact, communicate
with ICE. We do coordinate on multiple things with ICE. For
instance, if there is a violent criminal warrant in the city,
we pursue that matter together.
Ms. Boebert. No, we are talking before the warrants, Mr.
Mayor. There are issues happening before warrants are issued
and local law enforcement officers are unable to coordinate
because there is no warrant, and your ordinance says that a
city employee would be fired for communicating with Federal law
enforcement. So, you have been Mayor for 600 days. Have you
ever called for that ordinance to be repealed?
Mr. Johnston. We are not unable to coordinate with ICE
right now. We are in communication with ICE right now.
Ms. Boebert. Only if there is a warrant, but I am talking
prior to the warrant.
Mr. Johnston. We would not have a reason to coordinate
prior to the warrant.
Ms. Boebert. Because you do not know if they are illegal
because you are unable to coordinate until there is a warrant,
so that is why this ordinance needs to be repealed. So now, in
600 days, there has been no time to ask for this to be
repealed. You did have a Newcomers Playbook, 25 pages. You had
time to put that together, and you had time to agree with the
city council to authorize up to $2 million to pay Joe Biden's
former lawyer, his law firm, to help cover your ass for
Denver's sanctuary city policies for this hearing, correct?
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, Congresswoman. We have counsel to
support----
Ms. Boebert. Did you authorize that spending?
Mr. Johnston. We have counsel to support this Committee's
investigation into any documents you may have. That is a year-
long contract for the 13,000 city employees----
Ms. Boebert. And your budget is----
Mr. Johnston. You may request documents from them.
Ms. Boebert [continuing]. Seriously declining. Denver
Magazine reported that Denver has spent $7.5 million on
shipping illegal aliens to other destinations. Mayor Adams?
Mr. Adams. Yes.
Ms. Boebert. Did Mayor Johnston ever coordinate with you
and tell you that he was shipping illegal aliens to your city?
Mr. Adams. We coordinated in communication around the
entire asylum seeker issue in our cities.
Ms. Boebert. So, I have heard that Denver crime went down.
Well, Aurora's crime went up because you were also shipping
them to Aurora, and we have documentation that I do not have
time to discuss here in this hearing that proves you were
shipping illegal aliens to Aurora. Their crime was increasing
while you were hiding under laws that you will not demand be
repealed--ordinance from your city----
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady's time has expired.
Ms. Boebert [continuing]. And then crime was going up from
Tren de Aragua gangs vandalizing department owners.
Chairman Comer. Time is up. The gentlelady's----
Ms. Boebert. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I hope that we
can get this resolved for Colorado.
Mr. Connolly. We have a 5-minute rule, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady's time has expired. The
Chair recognizes Ms. Norton from Washington, DC.
Ms. Norton. There has been a lot of talk today about these
cities and their, in my view, principled decision not to
respond to extrajudicial ICE detainers. But I would like to
back up and talk about these detainers, what these detainers
really are: requests from ICE to unconstitutionally hold
someone without due process or probable cause. Enforcing ICE
detainers is also expensive, often results in mistakenly
holding U.S. citizens, and undermines public safety. It diverts
resources from protecting the local community to carry out the
Federal Government's job of immigrant enforcement.
Mayor Johnston, what challenges do ICE detainers represent
to your law enforcement and city resources?
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, Congresswoman. I think that was to
me, right? Sometimes we get confused.
Mr. Johnson. That is correct.
Mr. Johnston. OK. Thank you, Congresswoman. I think it is
important to describe what Denver currently does in terms of
what coordination looks like and what it does not, which is if
we get a detainer request, if we have someone in our custody
that ICE would like to get access to, what we do is we provide
them a notification of release. And so, if that person will be
released from our custody, we notify them of the time and the
date when they will be released, so ICE, if they choose to,
could pick that person up. We have done that 1,226 times over
the last 7 years, and that has enabled ICE, when they choose
to, to be able to bring someone into custody.
What we do not do is hold someone beyond their release date
because there are multiple courts who have found that to be
unconstitutional. If someone is serving a sentence and that
sentence expires this Friday, we cannot hold them another 7
days without an additional charge. And so that is what state
law does and sheriffs around the state would say it is a strain
on local resources to hold them for a civil issue that is not
linked to a criminal charge that we have in our city or another
jurisdiction. That is why we do not honor those types of
detainers.
Ms. Norton. Mayor Johnson, how about for Chicago?
Mr. Johnson. So, thank you for that question. And for
Chicago, again, our top priority with the Welcoming City
Ordinance is to ensure maximum safety. The type of coordination
that happens between our local law enforcement and our
communities is paramount to building trust in keeping our
community safe. The ordinance as well as the state law, the
Illinois Trust Act, which was passed with bipartisan support
and signed by the Republican Governor, Bruce Rauner, we do not
permit our local law enforcement from engaging in any Federal
matters. With a criminal warrant, our city and our state will
cooperate with the Federal Government, but without criminal
warrant, our local law enforcement focuses in on local issues
to keep the people of Chicago safe.
Ms. Norton. Mayor Wu, how would fulfilling ICE detainers
detract from public safety in your city?
Ms. Wu. Thank you, Congresswoman, for hosting us, first of
all, in your district. We hear every day from Boston residents,
a city that is 28 percent people who are born in another
country, that the trust and feeling that they know they can
call 9-1-1 when they need help or if they have information to
solve a crime and police need that help, that they feel
comfortable in doing so. And so, our policy in Boston is that
regardless of your background or immigration status, you have
access to our libraries. We want you to take your kids to
school. We want you to be part of our community. And also,
regardless of immigration status, if you commit a crime, if you
do harm in the community, you will be held accountable.
Ms. Norton. It is critical to the safety of Americans that
cities have the ability to decide what is in the best interest
of their people. Mayors and local enforcement know their cities
best. I would yield any time remaining to the Ranking Member.
Mr. Connolly. I just want to underscore what the gentlelady
has said. Local government knows best how local law enforcement
works. And coordinating with ICE is part of that, but they
cannot be a substitute for ICE doing its own job, which is a
Federal responsibility. Thank you for yielding.
Chairman Comer. Before I recognize Mr. Jordan, I believe
Ms. Boebert has a unanimous consent.
Ms. Boebert. Yes, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask
unanimous consent to submit to the record multiple local news
articles referencing Denver's sanctuary policies, including the
``Newcomers Playbook,'' written by Mayor Adams, and the budget,
which shows millions and millions of dollars of the Denver City
budget cut.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
The Chair now recognizes Mr. Jordan from Ohio.
Mr. Jordan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mayor Johnston, who is
Abraham Gonzalez?
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, Congressman. He is an individual
that was released from the county jail on Friday in the City
and County of Denver.
Mr. Jordan. That is all you know about him?
Mr. Johnston. I do know that he was facing charges that
the----
Mr. Jordan. Venezuelan gang member arrested by Border
Patrol on September 20, 2023, released into the country by the
Biden Administration. A few months later, he is arrested in
your city, charged with aggravated assault. On March 11, 2024,
he is charged with motor vehicle theft--stole a car--and then
on March 20, 2024, Mr. Gonzalez is charged with felony
menacing. Six days after that last charge, ICE sends you a
detainer, which includes an administrative warrant. Basically,
it says if you are going to release this bad guy, this gang
member who allegedly stole a car, menaced people and assaulted
people, give us a 48-hour heads up. Is that right? Does that
refresh your memory?
Mr. Johnston. I do know about the detainer request. I do
know that we provided a notification of release.
Mr. Jordan. What kind of notice did you give ICE when you
released him?
Mr. Johnston. We gave him notification. I am not sure how
long advance it was.
Mr. Jordan. One hour.
Mr. Johnston. I do know that----
Mr. Jordan. One hour.
Mr. Johnston. I do know that there was----
Mr. Jordan. One-hour notice, and you released him 5 days
ago, right? Why not give him more heads up? Actually, let us
put the slide up. Let us see what it says here. But let us put
the slide up.
[Slide]
Mr. Jordan. Kind of hard to see, so I will read. It says,
``Denver Sheriff Department, ICE notification being released to
the streets.'' ICE simply said just release him to us. You
released him to the streets. Why not release him to ICE?
Mr. Johnston. Thank you. What we have done, and we do this
regularly--we have done 1,226 of these--is we notify ICE----
Mr. Jordan. I am asking about one. I am not asking about
the 1,200.
Mr. Johnston. I understand.
Mr. Jordan. I am asking about Mr. Abraham Gonzalez, who is
a gang member from Venezuela, stole a car, assaulted someone.
You had him in your custody for how long?
Mr. Johnston. I know that we released him----
Mr. Jordan. Three-hundred-and-forty-five days you had him
in custody, and ICE said, hey, can you give us 48 hours heads
up.
Mr. Johnston. I do not know that
Mr. Jordan. You gave them 1-hour notice.
Mr. Johnston. Mr. Congressman, we notified them of release.
There were six ICE agents present when he was released, so they
had enough time to respond and to be present.
Mr. Jordan. Respond where?
Mr. Johnston. To the jail where we released him from. So,
we notified them of the release time. When we notify them of
release, they come to the jail facility to pick them up. They
are still on----
Mr. Jordan. That is not what you said. You said you
released him to the streets. Did you release him to the streets
or did you release him to ICE?
Mr. Johnston. What we do, sir, is we released him from our
county jail, and we coordinate with ICE on that release time
and release date so that ICE can come and pick them up from
that location. They were----
Mr. Jordan. Pick them up where, in the parking lot?
Mr. Johnston. Yes, sir. They were on the facility
property----
Mr. Jordan. That is what happened in the parking lot.
Mr. Johnston. I know, sir. I have reviewed the video. So, I
looked at it. I have talked to the sheriff last night. I have
already----
Mr. Jordan. One of the ICE officers got assaulted, didn't
he?
Mr. Johnston. I have reviewed the video, sir.
Mr. Jordan. Had to tase the guy, didn't they?
Mr. Johnston. Would you like me to answer, sir?
Mr. Jordan. No, I would like you to answer, did they tase
him?
Mr. Johnston. I know that there were six officers that had
multiple tasers. I saw that on video.
Mr. Jordan. If you keep him in the facility and they come
in the facility and get him, does it take six officers?
Probably takes two, doesn't it?
Mr. Johnston. So, we have been doing these, as I mentioned,
1,226 times. This is the first time I have been made aware of
there has been an incident like this. So, I reached out to ICE
after I saw the video. I have coordinated with their team and
offered to sit down and see if there are procedures we can
change----
Mr. Jordan. It is a simple question.
Mr. Johnston [continuing]. And make sure this works
smoothly.
Mr. Jordan. It is a simple question. You can release him in
the parking lot, give ICE 1-hour notice, and they got to send
six officers to arrest this guy, or you can say, hey, here is
what we are going to do. We are going to hold him, you come in
and bring two officers in, and you turn him over there. Why not
do it that way?
Mr. Johnston. We have a city ordinance----
Mr. Jordan. You know why you do not do it that way?
Mr. Johnston. We have a city ordinance that covers----
Mr. Jordan. Because you are a sanctuary city. This is the
whole point.
Mr. Johnston. No, sir. I disagree with you.
Mr. Jordan. Oh, OK.
Mr. Johnston. Because I will tell you why. If you talk
about sanctuary as a definition of shielding people from law
enforcement, we do not do that. What we do do is provide
services. In this context, what we did is we coordinated the
release----
Mr. Jordan. An officer got assaulted because your policy,
which says we are going to release him to, in your words, not
mine, to the streets. They have to arrest him in the parking
lot. They bring six officers when they could have had one or
two just come in your facility in the jail and take the guy
there, but you will not do it that way.
Mr. Johnston. I have seen the video. I have reached out to
ICE.
Mr. Jordan. I do not care if you have seen the video. I
know the facts, too.
Mr. Johnston. I have offered to sit down and coordinate on
strategies. If we need to make adjustments to what we do on
releases, we will do that. This is the first time in the 1,226
releases and I------
Mr. Jordan. I read your written------
Mr. Johnston [continuing]. Will take action.
Mr. Jordan [continuing]. Testimony last night. I read your
written testimony last night, 41/2 pages, and you used the
word, ``safe,'' ``safer,'' or ``safety'' 13 times, talking
about, ``My job is the safety of the people in Denver.'' ``We
are prioritizing making sure everyone in our community is
safe.'' That is a lie because it was not safer for the ICE
agents who are part of your community. No way was it safe. The
safest thing to do is to say ICE, we got him in custody. Come
here. We are releasing. We held him 345 days. We cannot hold
him a second longer. We cannot wait for you to come inside the
building. We got to let him go, so you have to arrest him in
the parking lot. That is how stupid sanctuary policies are and
what they mean to the community that you put at risk and to the
ICE officers who----
Mr. Connolly. Mr. Chairman, the 5-minutes is up.
Chairman Comer. Time has expired.
Mr. Jordan [continuing]. The ICE officer who was assaulted
and they had to use a taser. It is not good them.----
Ms. Pressley. Mr. Chairman, I have a unanimous consent
request.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired. The Chair
now recognizes Mr. Lynch from Massachusetts.
Mr. Lynch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member
Connolly. I want to thank the panelists for your willingness to
come before the Committee and help us with our work.
You know, I truly believe that if we had a rational and
comprehensive immigration policy in this country, if we
competently regulated the flow of immigration, if we knew the
purpose and circumstances of each immigrant's arrival here, and
if every immigrant knew what was expected of them when they
arrived, I honestly and truly believe that immigration could be
the greatest blessing for our country. Look at our world
rivals, China and Russia. No one is trying to sneak into China,
sneak into Russia. It is because of what we offer here as a
Nation.
There is a substantive issue that is at play here, and I
want to address that. So, under Article I, Section 8, Clause 4
of the Constitution, it provides Congress, and I will read the
section here, ``to establish a uniform rule of
naturalization.'' And Clause 18 further provides that
``Congress has the power to make all laws that shall be
necessary and proper to execute its enumerated powers,
including immigration.'' So, it appears that Congress has taken
up that responsibility in the Immigration and Nationality Act,
which they exercise under constitutional writ. On the other
hand, we have local so-called sanctuary city laws. So, those
sanctuary cities laws tend to address local cooperation with
Federal authorities in your jurisdictions, within your cities,
and sometimes it does appear that the sanctuary city laws are
defending against the congressional grant of authority to
operate in that area.
Now, you all, as mayors, and I ask this of the entire
panel, you deal with this every single day, and we have heard
some of it in your testimony eloquently. How do we, as
lawmakers, we are struggling with this right now. There is a
tension between that authority of Congress to act under Article
I of the Constitution and then your responsibility, nobly
taken, to provide a safe environment for the residents and
visitors to your cities. How do we reconcile, and I am asking
you for advice. You have a great perspective on this. How do
we, together, reconcile the tension between those two operating
systems, grants of power? And I would welcome any advice you
have on that because that is what we are struggling with up
here in terms of trying to come up with a comprehensive
immigration policy that addresses all of these concerns. Mayor
Johnston?
Mr. Johnston. Congressman, I am happy to start the
response. We obviously believe there is a Federal system that
has Federal obligations and state and local obligations. We
think, as Mayor Wu said, that our officers are uniquely
prepared, trained, and ready to enforce local law and to keep
our city safe. We want to focus on that. We do not have the
capacity for our law enforcement to be doing Federal
immigration enforcement, but we want to be partners in making
sure we are pulling violent criminals off the street. We do
that now. We have done in the past. We will keep doing it, but
we think the capacity for the Federal Government to focus on--
--
Mr. Lynch. But what I am trying to point at is this. So,
the current President of the United States, Donald Trump, rode
into office on this issue. On this issue. He put people in
fear. I am in a state that is 2,400 miles from the border. We
are going to spend $1.5 billion on providing services and
housing and everything to people who are in our state
unlawfully. He got into office on that issue, so the costs to
democracy are massive. It is now threatening our democracy
because we have mishandled this issue. So, we need to get
together on this and turn immigration, like I say, into the
greatest blessing that this country has and not something that
people are afraid of. That is the challenge.
Mr. Johnston. I agree.
Ms. Wu. May I, Congressman?
Mr. Johnston. Please.
Ms. Wu. This may be the last blue----
Mr. Lynch. Oh, my friend.
Ms. Wu. This may be the last blue dress I am wearing this
month. It is going to be green from here on now as we celebrate
Irish American Heritage back at home. Please pass comprehensive
immigration law that is consistent and compassionate that will
make our jobs possible, and we would so appreciate that
partnership.
Mr. Lynch. I hear you. Thank you. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. The Chair
recognizes----
Ms. Pressley. Mr. Chair, I have a unanimous consent
request.
Chairman Comer. I am sorry?
Ms. Pressley. I have unanimous consent request.
Chairman Comer. Go ahead. Proceed.
Ms. Pressley. OK. I would like to seek unanimous consent to
enter into the record, ``Thousands of DHS Agents Shift to
Deportation Instead of Drugs, Weapons, and Human Trafficking.''
That is February 2025, USA Today.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Pressley. Also, ``Parents Pull Kids from Childcare as
Immigration Fears Hit U.S. Youngest.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Pressley. Finally, ``An 11-Year-Old Girl in Texas Died
by Suicide After She Was Bullied About Her Family's Immigration
Status, Her Mother Says.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
The Chair recognizes Dr. Gosar from Arizona.
Mr. Gosar. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mayor Wu, I will be
showing up at your house tomorrow with my bags at 5. Leave your
doors unlocked, please. What are you making for dinner because
I expect a new warm meal and a balanced diet. Now, I am going
to need a car, and please leave me some cash because I am going
to need to go to my doctor's appointment on Friday. That would
be to Mayor Johnson. Now, I do not want to sleep on the couch,
so put me up at a luxury hotel. Another to Mayor Johnson.
Obviously, you would not like this because you do not know me,
right? You know nothing about me. You might not like that.
Sanctuary cities offer this kind of hope, this false hope to
illegal aliens by saying that very thing. Stay with me. We do
not tell anybody that you break our laws. Now, thank you. You
have made the United States complicit and one of the largest
purveyors of human trafficking in the world. Thank you. You are
disgracing the legal immigration system and the immigrants that
came here the right way through Ellis Island at the time, now
going through a process.
And I want to talk about that process because I have always
been told, and it has never been really challenged, is that
good process builds good policy, builds good politics. I think
that works really, really good because you can always fall back
to the process. If the process is not good, you always get a
bad process. Now, you heard the word ``establishing trust,''
OK? How can you establish trust at the very beginning when you
have a false narrative here? You are defending folks who have
broken the law. The definition I have always looked at is trust
is a series of promises kept. What kind of trust you are
supporting here? What is the trust in an illegal alien? It is a
false hope. It is a false trust. Welcome, we are bringing you
in. It is a disorganized process.
Now, let me ask you a question, Mr. Adams. Did you support
SB 1070?
Mr. Adams. I am sorry, sir?
Mr. Gosar. Did you support the Arizona law called SB 1070?
Mr. Adams. I am not familiar with it, sir.
Mr. Gosar. Well, let me explain, OK?
Mr. Adams. Uh-huh.
Mr. Gosar. SB 1070 challenged the Federal Government and
its supremacy clause because we, in Arizona, the government was
not doing anything, so we thought we will do this. We cannot
allow them to break laws, and the Supreme Court ruled, struck
it down. Now, it seems contraindicating here that you would
have supported SB 1070, right, Mayor Adams, based on the
promise that you, or would you violate the supremacy clause in
regard to immigration?
Mr. Adams. Would I violate?
Mr. Gosar. Violate the supremacy clause?
Mr. Adams. This is well way over my head. I felt----
Mr. Gosar. That is OK. That is OK.
Mr. Adams. I am not understanding.
Mr. Gosar. Mayor Johnston, would you have supported SB
1070, allowing Arizona to follow their own laws because that is
what you are doing right here.
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, Congressman. We currently follow
all Federal law, all state law, and all local law, so we do not
have any supremacy clause challenges that we are pursuing or
maintaining.
Mr. Gosar. OK. Well, it seems like you are, but Mr.
Johnson, do you agree?
Mr. Johnson. The city of Chicago complies with all laws.
Mr. Gosar. OK. Mayor Wu?
Ms. Wu. I am not familiar with that law because I am
focused on the city of Boston, but we follow all state, city,
and Federal laws in Boston.
Mr. Gosar. What happens when you get in conflict with them?
Who do you support?
Ms. Wu. The Constitution, as I understand it, does not
require cities or police officers or anyone to follow Federal
laws in conflict with local laws or state laws.
Mr. Gosar. OK. In the Constitution, it says, explicit, that
the Federal Government has jurisdiction and supremacy over all
immigration laws, right? I mean, I have heard it a number of
times from my colleagues over here. We are the ones who can
define that. We just heard we want a comprehensive immigration
policy. How can you get a comprehensive immigration policy when
you are defying it from the very get-go? You are building it on
false premises and false tenants.
Ms. Wu. Respectfully, Congressman, you could pass
bipartisan legislation, and that would be comprehensive
immigration law.
Mr. Gosar. What would you have?
Ms. Wu. A false narrative is that immigrants, in general,
are criminals or immigrants, in general, cause all sorts of
danger and harm. That is actually what is undermining safety in
our communities. If you wanted to make us safe, pass gun
reforms, stop cutting Medicaid, stop cutting cancer research,
stop cutting funds for veterans. That is what will make our
city safe.
Mr. Gosar. Yes. Thank you. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Krishnamoorthi
from Illinois.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mayor Johnson,
there has been much talk about Chicago and its enforcement of
laws to rid our communities of criminals, so I want to give you
a chance to address some of these questions. First, Mayor
Johnson, the city of Chicago operates under four sets of laws:
Federal, state, county, and of course, Chicago's own laws,
right?
Mr. Johnson. That is correct.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And most of these laws are not within
Chicago's sole power to change. For example, the Illinois Trust
Act, a state law, was enacted in 2017 by then Republican
Governor, Bruce Rauner, and dictates interactions between ICE
and law enforcement, right?
Mr. Johnson. That is correct.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And under Chicago's own law--I have a
copy of it right here--Chicago is required to help ICE whenever
ICE presents a judicial criminal warrant for an arrest,
correct?
Mr. Johnson. Yes.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. In fact, Chicago has assisted ICE with
criminal warrants in the past, right?
Mr. Johnson. Yes.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. So, just to clear it up, anytime that
ICE does the work and goes to a court to get a criminal warrant
to arrest somebody, the city of Chicago not only is required
to, but does cooperate to remove that criminal from our
community, right?
Mr. Johnson. That is correct.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Let me turn to another topic. President
Trump has said many things about Chicago, including that it
is--I have this NBC news report--``worse than Afghanistan.''
Mayor, I would suggest that facts suggest otherwise. For
example, Conde Nast recently named Chicago the best big city in
America 8 years in a row?
Mr. Johnson. A friendly amendment, best freaking city in
the world, city of Chicago.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Chicago is the largest rail hub in
America?
Mr. Johnson. That is correct.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Chicago is a quantum technology hub in
this country?
Mr. Johnson. Twenty billion dollar new investment.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. The Chicago area is the home to the
second most number of Fortune 500 headquarters of any city in
America, right?
Mr. Johnson. Just voted again, the top relocator for
corporate headquarters for 13 consecutive years.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And it is home to O'Hare Airport, the
most interconnected airport on the continent. Is that right?
Mr. Johnson. That is correct.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. That does not sound like Afghanistan to
me, sir, does it?
Mr. Johnson. The city of Chicago is a beautiful place. We
also have 20 percent of the world's fresh water right in our
front yard. Our restaurants are amazing. In fact, everything
that is dope about America comes from Chicago.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. A Republican named Lincoln was
nominated for President in Chicago, and a Democrat named Obama
called Chicago home, too. It is the city of big shoulders, the
heart of the heartland, the home to the world's best pizza, and
we are not going to take any slander from Donald Trump or
anyone else lying down. Is that right?
Mr. Johnson. That is correct.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Sir, I want to turn your attention to
another topic. Mayor Johnson, you would agree with me that high
grocery prices are among the top concerns for the people of
Chicago, right?
Mr. Johnson. The economic conditions, unfortunately, that
are not being addressed by Washington has caused a great deal
of trepidation and anxiety.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Mayor Wu, according to USDA, the
wholesale cost of a dozen eggs has gone from $6.59 since
January 19 when Donald Trump took office to $8.39, a 27-percent
increase, and this has got to anger Bostonians, right?
Ms. Wu. People are doing their very best, trying their
hardest, working multiple jobs, and they need support.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Mayor Johnston, I suppose that people
in Denver are concerned as well, right?
Mr. Johnston. Very concerned. This is the most important
issue for us, is how we make sure that it is affordable to live
in the city.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Mayor Adams, the same is true for New
Yorkers?
Mr. Adams. Affordability is an issue that is impacting our
city, and that is why we are doing best we can to putting $30
billion back in the pockets of working-class people.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. President Trump, if you are watching
this hearing, I respectfully ask, when will egg cost be high
enough for you to issue one executive order on bird flu: $10 a
carton, $15 a carton? It will soon be cheaper to buy a magazine
for an AK-47 than to buy breakfast. This is flat-out wrong.
I will turn to my last topic. Interestingly, last night in
a record long address, the President did not mention the word
``Medicaid'' once, which is top of mind for everyone. Mayor
Johnson, you do not dispute that 1.6 million people in Cook
County are enrolled in Medicaid, right?
Mr. Johnson. I do not dispute that. In fact, in most of our
safety net hospitals, 70 percent of the individuals that are
being serviced, are being serviced through Medicaid.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. I recently received outreach from Lurie
Children's, a preeminent children's hospital located in
Chicago, and they said that ``slashing Medicaid will put access
to care for all children in our state at risk.'' You would
agree that is unacceptable, right?
Mr. Johnson. That is unacceptable.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. It does not matter where you are from.
If you are White, Black, Brown, poor or rich, massive cuts to
Medicaid will devastate our healthcare system. Thank you, and I
yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. The Chair now
recognizes Mr. Perry from Pennsylvania.
Mr. Perry. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Mayors, thanks for being
here, leaving your cities to come to Washington, DC. today. By
either definition or by claim, each of you, I think, could
justifiably say, represent what is considered a sanctuary city.
If you could describe it, sanctuary from what? Anybody? Mayor
Johnson? You want to start, Mayor Johnston? Yes.
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, Congressman. I welcome that
because I wanted to clarify. We do not shield people from
Federal law.
Mr. Perry. I just asked you what----
Mr. Johnston. We do not provide sanctuary----
Mr. Perry. So, you do not consider yourself a sanctuary
city?
Mr. Johnston. We provide services and support. We do not
provide----
Mr. Perry. Do you consider yourself a sanctuary city? That
is just----
Mr. Johnston. We do not, under that definition.
Mr. Perry. You do not use the definition. So, you are not a
sanctuary?
Mr. Johnston. We call ourselves a welcoming city. We----
Mr. Perry. OK. So, what are you welcoming, and who are you
not welcoming?
Mr. Johnston. Well, we are welcoming everybody.
Mr. Perry. OK.
Mr. Johnston. We do not keep folks----
Mr. Perry. So, you are welcoming criminals that you do not
have any idea what their crime background is, and you are good
with that?
Mr. Johnston. No, we aggressively pursue----
Mr. Perry. How you do that? No, no. How do you vet the
people that you welcome in your sanctuary city?
Mr. Johnston. Sir, we do not vet folks that arrive from
Illinois or California with a background check when they come
into the Denver airport any more than someone from another
local----
Mr. Perry. So, you are welcoming any illegal immigrant or
illegal alien to your city without question?
Mr. Johnston. Well, folks that make the decision to come to
Denver, they arrive and then we expect them to get----
Mr. Perry. You welcome them. You call them to your city and
say, if you come here, you will be safe from what?
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, sir. We do not call anyone to our
city. Folks that arrive in our city, we offer same access to
services they may need to be successful, and if they break the
law, we hold them accountable. We charge them. We prosecute
them.
Mr. Perry. What about if they have already broken the law?
Mr. Johnston. Well, if they have already broken the law and
there is another jurisdiction that has a warrant for that
person, they let us know, and we would cooperate to transfer
them to that jurisdiction.
Mr. Perry. I think we saw in Mr. Jordan's conversation with
you that you really do not do that. Mayor Johnson, how about
you? According to my records, you have welcomed 51,648 illegal
aliens to your sanctuary city, so I would ask you sanctuary
from what?
Mr. Johnson. If you are referring to the number of
individuals that were bused from Governor Abbott without any
coordination, the 52,000 individuals that were seeking asylum,
those individuals were bused to us. I passed a bus ordinance to
work to coordinate with the Governor of Texas. He refused to do
that, but that transfer of individuals was the result of the
Governor of Texas, not the result of a Welcoming City
Ordinance.
Mr. Perry. Welcoming City Ordinance. So, you are not
welcoming these people that came here illegally?
Mr. Johnson. The individuals that were bused to us were
bused to us from the border----
Mr. Perry. They were not welcomed to Chicago? You did not
welcome them? You did not provide them sanctuary?
Mr. Johnson. So, the Welcoming City Ordinance is pretty
straightforward. It allows for our local law enforcement to
focus on local policies, and that is why we are seeing a
decline in violence.
Mr. Perry. So, you do not care about Federal law
enforcement policies, only local policies?
Mr. Johnson. We comply with all laws. What I do care about
is this body, Washington, passing comprehensive immigration
law.
Mr. Perry. So, let me ask you this. Chicago residents
reported 28,443 violent crimes during 2024 alone, cases of
aggravated assault rising to the highest level in 2 decades.
Now also, state funds, $160 million, were issued for illegal
alien job assistance shelters in Chicago. You are the Mayor of
Chicago. Do you think that your residents or the residents of
your state should be paying for that more than they should be
paying for their own needs, their own roads, their own public
safety? I mean, who elected you, the people that came illegally
whether they were sent to you or not, or the people that reside
in Chicago? Who elected you and who do you serve?
Mr. Johnson. The people of Chicago elected me as the 57th
Mayor of the city of Chicago, and we serve all the residents of
the city of Chicago.
Mr. Perry. Illegal or not, criminal or not, how many of the
662,566 illegal aliens with criminal histories that ICE has
reported are now residing in Chicago?
Mr. Johnson. Someone will have to get back with you with
that number. I do not keep a count of----
Mr. Perry. Do you take immigration information from
criminals as they are arrested and processed? Do you take
immigration information?
Mr. Johnson. Our local law enforcement focuses on getting
all violent individuals off the streets of Chicago.
Mr. Perry. Do you determine whether they are here legally,
what their immigration status is as a function of criminal of
your justice system?
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired. Please
feel free to answer the question, Mayor.
Mr. Johnson. The Welcoming City Ordinance ensures that our
local residents communicate and trust local law enforcement to
ensure that criminals and crime is being addressed, and that is
why crime has gone down in the city of Chicago.
Mr. Perry. But that does not apply if you are illegal.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes----
Ms. Pressley. Mr. Chairman, I have a unanimous consent
request.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes----
Ms. Pressley. Mr. Chairman, I have a unanimous consent
request.
Chairman Comer. I am sorry, Ms. Pressley.
Ms. Pressley. I have unanimous consent request.
Chairman Comer. Go ahead.
Ms. Pressley. Thank you. I would like to seek unanimous
consent to enter into the record, ``Mass Deportations Would
Deliver a Catastrophic Blow to the U.S. Economy.''
Chairman Comer. What publication is that?
Ms. Pressley. This is from the Joint Economic Committee,
December 2024.
Chairman Comer. From where? What publication?
Ms. Pressley. The Joint Economic Committee, December 2024.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Pressley. I would like to seek unanimous consent to
enter into the record from the American Immigration Council,
October 2024, ``Mass Deportation: Devastating Cost to America,
Its Budget and Economy.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
The Chair recognizes Mr. Khanna from California.
Mr. Khanna. Mr. Chair----
Chairman Comer. Oh, wait. I am sorry, I am sorry. Mayor Wu
needs a short break to attend to her young child. Mayor----
Ms. Wu. Mr. Chairman, I got the note that the baby is OK
for now, so I will continue, but thank you. I believe from my
husband that the baby is OK, and----
Chairman Comer. OK.
Ms. Wu. And the arrangement, if it is OK, is everyone would
take a break so I would not have to go into a back room by
myself to nurse when it is time. Thank you.
Chairman Comer. OK. The Chair recognizes Mr. Khanna.
Mr. Khanna. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I find the
Republican position in this hearing quite ironic because the
Republicans are the party that are always touting local
government, state government, local control, and not having
Federal overreach. So, I want to explore actually one of your
favorite topics on the other side of the aisle, the infamous
mask mandates. I know how much you love them.
When CDC came out with a mask mandate order of January 29,
2021, they said that we needed to have fines of $1,500 for
anyone who did not wear a mask on a plane or in a public space,
and they said that they needed to be referred criminally to the
Transportation Authority if they violated it more than once.
Now, Governor Abbott said in Executive Order 38, we are not
going to have our cities enforce the mask mandate, and Governor
DeSantis said the same thing, we are not going to have our
local police enforce the mandate. I want to ask Mayor Adams and
Mayor Wu because you had slightly different views on the mask
mandate. But Mayor Adams, you were actually praised in New York
for saying we are going to take away some of these mask
mandates earlier so businesses can open and there can be a
revival in New York. Did you ever, and law enforcement, to your
knowledge, enforce the CDC mask mandate and ask your law
enforcement to fine people who did not wear a mask $1,500?
Mr. Adams. What we did was look at the science and looked
at how it will impact business, and after issuing warnings and
education----
Mr. Khanna. But I think it is fair to say, Mayor, right,
you never referred anyone to the Transportation Department for
prosecution, and you never had local police out there saying we
are going to fine people $1,500 with the CDC mandate?
Mr. Adams. The goal was to always ensure that people would
carry out the procedure, and we did several education and
warning in the process.
Mr. Khanna. Mayor Wu, you were a great advocate of masks
and looked at the science. Do you know if your city government
actually ever used police resources to carry out the CDC or
Transportation Department's mask mandate where they were fining
$1,500 or referring for criminal prosecution?
Ms. Wu. I am not aware of any incidents of someone in
Boston having been fined or prosecuted for any mask-related
issues. We certainly prioritized public health and saving
lives, and so our role as a city was to provide positive
communication, outreach, make sure there were signs and
different community organizations that could go and remind
people to stay safe and do their best to take care of each
other in their family.
Mr. Khanna. And as much of an advocate as you were for
masks and I was an advocate for masks, would you have been
hesitant to order your law enforcement, your local police to
say, if someone was violating those mask mandates that we need
to cooperate and turn them over to the Transportation
Department for prosecution? Would that have given you some
pause if the Federal Government were saying use your police
departments to fine people $1,500 and give us their records for
criminal prosecution?
Ms. Wu. Yes, it would have.
Mr. Khanna. And so, I guess I am trying to understand, you
know, if we set this precedent that we want cities to be
enforcing every Federal mandate, then what happens when there
is a new Democratic President that comes and says we want a
mask mandate that the Republicans may not want, and when there
are conservatives, like Governor DeSantis or Governor Abbott
saying we do not want our cities to enforce that. Do you see,
Mayor Wu, any difference between a Federal Government asking
you to enforce laws that ICE is doing versus a Federal
Government asking you to enforce a mask mandate or, frankly, to
enforce gun laws that may not be what your local city
department is focused on?
Ms. Wu. It does seem that local authority is part of our
democracy and part of our system of government.
Mr. Khanna. Isn't the real issue here not one of
immigration, but of federalism? I mean, everyone agrees that if
there is someone who is convicted of a crime, that ICE has the
right to enforce those laws. The question is just, are you
going to have local governments in this country be beholden to
every new President's directives and armed for enforcing that?
My view is that we ought to have local governments be able to
use their police officers for their priorities. That, in its
essence, is federalism, and it actually used to be the
conservative Republican position.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired. The Chair
recognizes Dr. Foxx from North Carolina.
Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mayor Johnson, in the
last 4 years, how much has Chicago spent on care for illegal
aliens?
Mr. Johnson. Thank you for that question, Congresswoman.
So, since 2022, since the Governor of Texas began shipping----
Ms. Foxx. Just tell me a number. I do not need a speech.
Just tell me a number.
Mr. Johnson. So, since 2022, since the Governor of Texas
was shipping individuals to cities across this country, the
city's budget, roughly 1 percent of the city's budget, over the
course of 4 years.
Ms. Foxx. Mayor Johnston, the same question, and I do not
need a speech, just a number.
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, Dr. Congresswoman. Thank you,
Congresswoman. It is $79 million over the last 21/2 years.
Ms. Foxx. Mayor Adams, same question. How much has New York
spent to care for illegal aliens?
Mr. Adams. Approximately, $6.9 billion went out of our
taxpayers' funds.
Ms. Foxx. Mayor Wu, same question. How much has Boston
spent to care for illegal aliens in the last 4 years?
Ms. Wu. We do not ask about immigration status in giving
city services and providing that access, so we do not have a
number.
Ms. Foxx. Taxpayers have been bearing the brunt of the
massive wave of illegal aliens who have entered the United
States. The Biden Administration seemingly declared taxpayers
and hardworking Americans collateral damage in the pursuit of
open borders. Again, Mayor Johnson, are NGOs providing services
to illegal aliens in Chicago?
Mr. Johnson. In accordance with the Welcoming City
Ordinance, our sister agencies, or city departments, we do not
seek the status of any individual that is seeking service.
Ms. Foxx. Mayor Johnston, are NGOs providing services to
illegal aliens in Denver?
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, ma'am. When folks arrive on the
streets without food or resources or shelter, we do provide
food or shelter regardless of where folks arrive from.
Ms. Foxx. Mayor Adams, same question.
Mr. Adams. Yes, in combination of city agencies and
nonprofits, we responded to the migrant asylum seekers
humanitarian crisis that hit our city.
Ms. Foxx. And, Mayor Wu, I assume you do not know their
status, but do you know are NGOs providing services to people
arriving in your city without any kind of documentation?
Ms. Wu. There are community organizations, many of them in
Boston, who seek to serve all of our Boston residents.
Ms. Foxx. Congress must provide oversight and ensure
accountability for taxpayer funds going to NGOs. Agents from
Customs and Border Protection have been outspoken in opposition
to allowing NGOs to assist illegal aliens in subversion of law
and order. When asked if NGOs are working at cross-purposes to
the mission of Border Patrol agents, the Chief of the National
Border Patrol Council said, ``Most definitely, and they should
not be allowed, but our government allows it.'' NGOs receiving
taxpayer funding through grants pay for everything from food,
shelter, and transportation to legal services that help the
migrants traverse Mexico.
That is why I introduced H.R. 245, the Grant Integrity and
Border Security Act. This bill would require all NGOs who apply
for a Federal grant to certify as part of their application
that they have not, will not, and are not engaging in acts that
violate Federal immigration law. If NGOs continue violating our
immigration laws, then my bill would ensure that no Federal
funds can ever go to the violators. It is time to pass this
bill, ensure accountability, and secure our cities and the
border. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady yields back. The Chair
recognizes Ms. Brown from Ohio.
Ms. Brown. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Today we have heard my
colleagues on the other side of the aisle demean and dehumanize
immigrants, choosing fearmongering and political theater over
real solutions. So, let us take a moment to set the record
straight.
The best chance for comprehensive immigration reform came
in 2013 when a bipartisan Senate majority passed a bill
strengthening border security and providing a path to
citizenship for longtime residents, but House Republicans
killed it. Fast forward a decade later to last year, the Senate
crafted another bipartisan deal, one that would have enhanced
border security and tackled the fentanyl crisis with better
technology and more agents, but Donald Trump torpedoed it,
preferring anti-immigration rhetoric to real solutions. So,
this is not about fixing the problem. It is about exploiting
it, and let us not forget the President was not complaining
about this when he was employing undocumented immigrants at his
resort.
We all remember President Trump's tired, old tactics from
his first term: the harmful Muslim ban, referring to Black and
Brown countries as ``shithole countries,'' and the cruel images
of kids in cages. This time around is no different. President
Trump signed multiple executive orders before even attempting
to work with Congress, mind you, a Republican-controlled
Congress. So, this is not about policy. It is about fear.
For the last decade, Trump has pushed menacing messages
portraying all immigrants as criminals, but it is not just
coming from Trump. It is being amplified by right-wing media. A
recent exit polls found that people who watch Fox News are
twice as likely to believe myths about immigration, including
the false idea that immigrants commit more crimes than native-
born Americans. This is objectively false, yet 2 in 3 Fox
viewers believe it is true. This serves a purpose: fueling
outrage, distracting from real solutions, and keeping the
conversation stuck in a cycle of fear instead of facts. And
Trump's latest immigration crackdown reinforces these
misperceptions: ICE raids choreographed for cameras,
deportation sweeps with photo ops, wardrobe changes, and tough
talk, the cruel, performative videos of immigrants in shackles;
$200 million in taxpayer money to air pro-Trump propaganda ads;
talk about waste, fraud, and abuse. All spectacle, no
substance. All performance, no plan.
On the campaign trail, J.D. Vance and Donald Trump promoted
vile and xenophobic lies about Haitian immigrants in my state
of Ohio, and now, the Trump Administration has moved to strip
protections from 500,000 Haitians. These are people who have
lived, worked, and contributed to this country for years, and
they came here the right way, the legal way. But instead of
recognizing their contributions, we are forcing them back to a
country plagued by violence, instability, and humanitarian
crisis, all so Trump can claim 500,000 more deportations. The
cruelty is not just the point. It is their pleasure.
So, let us be honest about what is really going on here.
Mayor Johnson of Chicago, what sort of an impact will the Trump
Administration's decision to allow arrests at sensitive
locations, like hospitals, preschools, churches, and courts
have on your city?
Mr. Johnson. Thank you for that question. As a welcoming
city space, it is important that the trust between the
community and law enforcement is strong. That is ultimately how
we have built a safer city. Just this year alone, violent crime
is down 20 percent. Any type of threat to the civility and to
the humanity of people is a threat to the evolution of our
democracy. And so, it is incumbent upon Washington to ensure
that we are funding our education system, that we are funding
our transportation system, our healthcare system, creating more
jobs. Just since I have been in office, we have increased youth
employment, summer jobs, by over 40 percent, making sure that
our young people see their purpose is the value of this
democracy. And so, I call on this body to continue to invest in
the city of Chicago that sends billions of dollars to
Washington.
Ms. Brown. Thank you. Fear and cruelty are not the
solution. It is distinctly un-American and a dangerous
distraction from the Congress's responsibility to actually
deliver progress on this challenging facing our country, and
with that, I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady yields back. The Chair
recognizes Mr. Grothman from Wisconsin.
Mr. Grothman. Yes, just a couple comments first. As far as
the idea who is committing crimes, we have no idea how many
illegal immigrants in this country are committing crimes
because nobody keeps track, OK? If I go to a prison or a jail
in Wisconsin with, I do not know, 1,500 inmates, and I ask how
many of these people are here illegally or how many are
citizens of another country, nobody will know the answer to
that question. So, that is why we do not have hard facts on how
many crimes people committed.
The other thing I would like to point out is every year in
this country, about 850,000 new people from other countries are
sworn in as American citizens. I do not know of Donald Trump
ever talking about reducing that number. Maybe he should reduce
that number, but I have never heard him talk about reducing
that number. Our concern here was illegal immigration, and I
would hope the vast majority of Americans think we ought to
have an immigration law that the 850,000 new citizens every
year go through. But if we are going to have an immigration
law, it means we have to do something with the people who try
to become permanent residents without going through the proper
structure.
Now, I think part of our problem here is we have a lot of
people who do not understand why we have an immigration law at
all. And I want to ask all four of you, as we go down the row
here, do you believe the United States should have an
immigration law, or do you believe that just anybody should be
able to show up and come in? And we will start with Mayor Adams
there.
Mr. Adams. I strongly believe we need to have an
immigration law. I strongly believe we need to secure our
borders. We witnessed a 90-percent decrease and we are seeing
that play out in our city, so we should have a strong
immigration law.
Mr. Grothman. And I will ask this question then. If you
believe we should have an immigration law, and then we will get
all four of you here, if you believe that, do you believe
people who ignore the law, whatever that law is, should be
allowed in the country?
Mr. Adams. I think that all of us must be held accountable
to the law, and if we secure our borders to make sure before
they come in, that is done correctly, it is not going to impact
cities to carry that burden, like I said, close to $7 billion
in tax dollars.
Mr. Grothman. Mr. Johnston, do you believe we ought to have
an immigration law in this country, or do you believe everybody
should just be able to walk in here and set up shop?
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, sir. I do believe we should have
an immigration law. I do believe we should have secure borders.
I do believe we should fix our asylum process. I do believe we
should let Dreamers get access to permanent citizenship----
Mr. Grothman. OK. Then the question is, if somebody ignores
that law and comes in this country, do you believe the whoever,
ICE or Border Patrol, or anybody should spin them around and
send them out, or can they just ignore the law and because they
crossed the Rio Grande, overstaying a visa, whatever, are here?
You do believe that we ought to do something to the people who
are ignoring the law?
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, sir. In the case of the folks we
are seeing, they are coming here because they are claiming
asylum. When they claim asylum, they then have a right to a day
in court to see if that asylum claim is valid.
Mr. Grothman. The question is, though, if I come in this
country and stay here, and I have not gone through any formal
process to become a citizen or to be a legal visa or whatever,
should we kick that person out?
Mr. Johnston. The folks that we are serving, sir, are
trying very hard to navigate that legal process. It is often a
7-year wait for a court date when they arrive at this country,
so part of it is the backlogged administrative deport----
Mr. Grothman. OK. Let me tell you this. Every month under
President Biden, at least the statistics I have, 30-to -40,000
people, what are called got-aways, came across the Southern
border, did not ask for asylum, did not ask for anything. Do
you believe that people who just come across that way should be
escorted out of the country, or do you believe just because
they ran between the designated checkpoints that they, as the
result, get to stay here forever?
Mr. Johnston. And sir, we are serving folks who are seeking
asylum or have temporary protective status----
Mr. Grothman. Of course you would not even know that.
Mr. Johnston. [continuing.] Through CBP One.
Mr. Grothman. OK. Next mayor, Mayor Johnson, I think from
Chicago, what do you think? Should we have any immigration law
in this country, or should anybody who comes here just be able
to stay here?
Mr. Johnson. I do support the bipartisan legislation that
was passed out of the Senate for comprehensive immigration
reform.
Mr. Grothman. Well, no, that is not answering the question.
Right now, people are breaking the law. Do you believe the
United States should have an immigration law? As far as I know,
every country in the world has an immigration law--maybe there
is one outlier or something--and we have laws in the United
States. Do you believe if people come here and break the law
that they should be escorted out, or do you believe they just
get to stay here forever?
Mr. Johnson. Our immigration system is broken. We have not
had a comprehensive immigration reform since 1986.
Mr. Grothman. Mayor Wu?
Ms. Wu. May I answer fully?
Chairman Comer. Yes. His time has expired, but feel free to
answer.
Ms. Wu. OK.
Chairman Comer. Do you want Mayor Wu to answer your
question or are you fair?
Mr. Grothman. Yes, she----
Chairman Comer. OK. Yes, yes. Go ahead.
Ms. Wu. Yes. Thank you, Congressman. Yes, cities everywhere
clearly need an immigration law that has secure borders,
comprehensive and consistent compassionate pathways to
residency and citizenship, resources to adjudicate the
complexities of the law, and at the same time, I do not support
mass deportation. That would be devastating for our economy,
and there are millions of people who are running our small
businesses, going to our schools----
Chairman Comer. OK. Thank you. The Chair recognizes, and I
must add, I do not think anyone is calling for mass
deportation, but the Chair recognizes Mr. Garcia from
California.
Mr. Garcia. Thank you. Well, thanks, Mr. Chairman. I want
to thank all of our witnesses for being here today.
Before I came to Congress, I was the Mayor of Long Beach,
California for 8 years. It is a diverse city of about half a
million people, so I appreciate the work that mayors do. As
Mayor, I signed the Long Beach Values Act to protect all of our
residents, including immigrants and undocumented residents. We
set up justice funds to support people that were facing
deportation, defending immigrants in court. These are policies
that are strongly supported by my residents back home because
they are good for all the community and make Long Beach safer.
Now, we also know that immigrants make our communities
vibrant and thriving places to live. The facts are that
sanctuary jurisdictions or jurisdictions that welcome
immigrants are overwhelmingly safer than non-sanctuary
jurisdictions. That is actually a fact. Immigrants, both
documented and undocumented, are also less likely to be
incarcerated or to commit crimes than native-born people. We
know this to be true. Again, these are facts, and mayors have
every right to pursue the policies that, you know, are best for
your residents.
Now, the Trump Administration has threatened to prosecute
some of the mayors on the panel today and force them to comply
with his extremist agenda, but, however, Mayor Adams, you are
in a different position. You, of course, are already facing
serious criminal charges, and, Mayor Adams, I assume that you
are not going to commit perjury today. And I do believe,
though, that you have an enormous amount of issues facing you
ahead of you, and it means your criminal charges are absolutely
relevant to us today: bribery, wire fraud, willfully and
knowingly conspiring to commit offenses against the United
States. Mayor Adams, you, of course, deny these corruption
charges against you. Is that correct?
Mr. Adams. Yes, Congressman.
Mr. Garcia. Thank you. Now, I understand that you are
proven innocent unless you are guilty, but you also have, sir,
a trust problem. Four of your deputy mayors have resigned. Now,
this is serious, and Republican prosecutors agree that the
evidence against you is ironclad, yet Trump's DOJ moved to drop
these charges.
[Poster.]
Mr. Garcia. Now, I want to be just really clear and show
this here. Now, look at how the Trump-appointed acting U.S.
Attorney who was prosecuting you described it: ``Because the
law does not support a dismissal and because I am confident
that Adams committed the crimes with which he is charged, I
cannot agree to seek a dismissal.'' Now, this is a conservative
Republican who resigned when Donald Trump pressured her to drop
the charges, and we know that the Trump Administration demanded
that the charges be dropped, and this is key. They will be able
to refile them against you, Mr. Mayor, at any time. I think,
personally, that is why you sat next to the architect of family
separation on Fox and Friends.
Now, Tom Homan sat next to you and said the following,
``Getting on Rikers Island is step one. We are working on some
other things that we do not really want to talk about on open
air because the city council will be putting roadblocks up on
us. The Mayor and me have a commitment to several other
things.'' Now, this was you, of course, and Mr. Homan, the
architect of family separation. This is also incredibly
concerning, Mr. Mayor. You sat next to him, you smiled, you
badmouthed your own city council. Now, Mr. Mayor, we have a
right to know if the Trump Administration has actually coerced
you into agreeing to anything, and, Mayor Adams, I also want to
be very clear, are you selling out New Yorkers to save yourself
from prosecution?
Mr. Adams. There is no deal, no quid pro quo, and I did
nothing wrong, and anything dealing with this case had a
deference to Judge Ho, who is now addressing it. I am going to
refer to his actions.
Mr. Garcia. Well, Mr. Mayor, it appears, to me at least,
that you are selling New Yorkers out. It appears that you are
working with Tom Homan, who is clearly focused on family
separation and deportations, and harming New Yorkers and others
across the country. Now, every other mayor on this panel is
pursuing legal and effective policies that benefit our
residents and their communities. Their policies actually uphold
public safety. Now, I personally agree with majority of New
Yorkers and think, Mr. Mayor, that you should resign. You
should do the right thing. You should step down and resign
today, and with that, I yield back.
Mr. Connolly. Would my friend yield?
Mr. Garcia. I yield.
Mr. Connolly. Mr. Mayor, I want to be really clear. Were
you pressured in exchange for the dropping and dismissal of
criminal charges in your indictment to cooperate with the Trump
Administration on all fronts with respect to immigration? Did
any such conversation take place?
Mr. Adams. I think I was extremely clear.
Mr. Connolly. I cannot hear you, sir.
Mr. Adams. I think I was extremely clear: no quid pro quo,
no agreement. I did nothing wrong, but serve the people of New
York City.
Mr. Connolly. I thank my friend for yielding.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Cloud from
Texas.
Mr. Cloud. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, witnesses for
being here.
You know, we are indeed a Nation of immigrants. I have to
look no further than my own children who are the inheritance of
both my ancestors who got here in the 1600s with William Penn
or my wife who got here when we got married. I think that is
really what this Nation is about, but you are not here today
because of legal immigration. You are here because of illegal
migrants who have been sent to our country. In your opening
statements, there was a deft linguistic shell game that you
played to try to conflate legal immigration with people who are
coming here illegally, and we are savvy to that.
You are here because each of you, with the exception Mr.
Adams, have said in some form or fashion that you will not
honor ICE detainers; in other words, that when you have people
in custody and ICE says we need to come arrest that person
because they are here illegally, that we will not honor that.
That is why you are here. No one is asking you to go round up
criminal aliens. We are asking you to take people who are
already in your custody and hand them over to legal Federal law
enforcement.
Now, what this does is it saves U.S. taxpayer money. It
keeps from a greater presence of ICE and Federal law
enforcement in your communities because if you are releasing
them, it takes more people, as Chairman Jordan mentioned, to go
in and to re-arrest that person and it puts the lives of law
enforcement in danger. This used to be a bipartisan issue. As a
matter of fact, groups like the Cato Institute called President
Obama the deporter-in-chief.
And Mr. Chairman, I would like to submit for the record a
Cato article. ``President Obama: Deporter-in-Chief,'' is the
title of it.
So why, we have to ask, is suddenly the left not embracing
policies that Obama supported. We can look to last night where
it seems to be Trump derangement syndrome, where the left could
not seem to applaud kids fighting cancer, a First Lady and
accomplished immigrant in her own rights, where traditionally
we have applauded and recognized and honored the families for
their sacrifice. This is the President's issue and they are
kind of along for the ride. It was odd, I thought, that they
applauded sending more money to the Ukraine, but not peace for
Ukraine. And so, it brings us back to why we are here, and why
this is a partisan issue all of a sudden, it boggles the mind.
Now, Mayor Johnson, you seem to want to talk about Texas.
So, I am from Texas. Let us talk about Texas. First of all,
have you been to the Southern border?
Mr. Johnson. I have been to Texas, but I have not been
exactly to the Southern border.
Mr. Cloud. OK. You seem to talk about Governor Abbott and
sending buses to your city. Now, I can understand the concern
with that, but I will also let you know that Texas did not ask
for the Biden Administration to open the borders and send in
exponential amount of people that have affected your city into
our state, and you should know that no one forced them to go to
your city. The reason they selected your city is because you
have said it is a sanctuary city. Everyone was asked where they
wanted to go before they got on the bus. No one asked them or
told them or forced them to get on the bus. They did it of
their own free will, and they were sent to your city because of
your stated claim to be a sanctuary city.
Now, one thing I could tell you, having toured the
facilities, is that I have been to those facilities under the
Biden Administration where there was a map on the wall, and you
could see the migrants kind of pointing out which city they
wanted to go to. And I can also tell you from having been
through the immigration process with my wife, there is a
difference between people coming here legally--I have been at
the ceremony where the people are crying with tears as they
take the oath of citizenship to come to this country. It is far
different than people coming across our border, waving the
flags, not trying to assimilate into the United States'
culture, and sometimes bringing crime into our communities.
This is an issue.
Now, each mayor, I want to ask you, one of the issues
recently is how much FEMA dollars have gone to support migrants
in hotel rooms in your communities. Mayor Adams, do you know
how many FEMA dollars is spent in your city?
Mr. Adams. Eighty million dollars, and I have been to the
border, and I saw those maps pointed to New York.
Mr. Cloud. Thank you. Mayor Johnston?
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, Congressman. I know we do have
some Federal dollars. I have to get back to you on the exact
amount. It seems----
Mr. Cloud. It is roughly $32 million, Mayor, $38 million.
Mayor Johnson?
Mr. Johnson. I do not have the exact numbers.
Mr. Cloud. It is $32 million. Mayor?
Ms. Wu. I do not have the number either. I would love to
know.
Mr. Cloud. Twenty-nine million dollars. So understandably,
citizens are concerned about their taxpayer dollars that are
supposed to be going to disaster relief for them and their
communities going to illegal aliens. Do you agree, each of
you--yes or no question; I only have a couple seconds--do you
recognize that it is against the law to harbor criminal aliens?
Chairman Comer. The gentlemen's time has expired, but
please, please answer the question. Mayor Adams?
Mr. Adams. Yes, meaning Federal law, correct.
Mr. Johnston. I do recognize that, and we do not do that.
Mr. Johnson. The city of Chicago does not harbor criminals.
Ms. Wu. Yes, we follow the laws.
Mr. Connolly. Mr. Chairman, I have a unanimous consent
request.
Chairman Comer. Proceed.
Mr. Connolly. I would ask to enter into the record two
articles, one talking about President Trump putting mass
deportations to the heart of his campaign during the campaign,
and just last night, ``Trump Vows to Use U.S. Military for Mass
Deportations.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so order.
Mr. Connolly. I thank the Chair.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Frost from
Florida.
Mr. Frost. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, the year is 1969. My
abuela, Zenaida, my grandma, Yeya, gets a call, and her, my
mother; Maritza, my aunt; Sandra, and my grandpa, Pepe; have to
go to a plane within 24 hours because they have been approved
to come to the United States. They came here as refugees in
1969 during the freedom flights from Cuba for their new life in
accordance with the promise of this Nation. ICE arrested
hundreds of U.S. citizens during Trump's first term. Again, in
the last few weeks, ICE has detained Native Americans, a
teenage girl from Nicaragua, Puerto Ricans, a Puerto Rican
military veteran, all legal residents, but all who fit the
description. I bet someone like my grandma would have fit the
description, too, maybe even myself.
Trump's border czar went on TV and raged about Americans
studying up on their constitutional rights during interactions
with ICE agents. It was one of the most despicable things I
have seen, and the question is, why is he so upset that people
know their constitutional rights to the point where this
Administration has moved to try to intimidate Members of
Congress for trying to educate their constituents to know their
rights? Why don't they want people to know their rights? Well,
because if we know what our rights are, we will also know when
Trump tries to take them away.
Mr. Bier, why are such outbursts from this Administration
alarming as threats to our rights and liberties?
Mr. Bier. Well, you think about what we have heard about
detainer requests. I have documented over 155 U.S. citizens who
have been targeted by detainer requests, and they want to say
we are going to just take the discretion away from state and
local governments over detainer requests, even in the case
where someone is clearly a U.S. citizen, here is my birth
certificate. Does not matter, they are going to disregard it,
and so, yes, I am well aware of the threat this Administration
poses to constitutional rights.
Mr. Frost. So, from what we saw the last few weeks, should
American citizens, should people with legal permanent residence
in this country be also scared of this mass deportation
campaign for themselves and their own children?
Mr. Bier. Oh, absolutely. The birthright citizenship order
is the most egregious, but that does not stop there. They want
to take away people's citizenship and people's rights
regardless whether they are citizens or not.
Mr. Frost. Thank you. Mayor Wu, Boston has been named the
ninth best city for quality of life in the entire country.
Congratulations.
Ms. Wu. I would not argue with that.
Mr. Frost. OK. If Trump succeeds in forcing you to redirect
your city's budget and personnel to help with ICE raids and
this mass deportation campaign, how would that affect quality
of life for your people?
Ms. Wu. First, that is against the laws in Boston and in
Massachusetts, but I have heard from so many community members,
including residents who are immigrants who are citizens, that
they are terrified. And that means when people do not feel
comfortable reaching out to call 9-1-1 when they need help,
when survivors of domestic violence do not feel comfortable
reporting or giving information, it makes all of us less safe,
even those who are not immigrants.
Mr. Frost. This culture of fear is bad for the safety of
our people. Donald Trump's immigration raids are also
traumatizing and destabilizing, of course all Americans, but
especially children and kids. Being a kid in America is hard
enough--making good grades, going through more school shooter
drills and fire drills--and now Trump wants to send armed ICE
agents into their classrooms to rip children from the school
desk as they are trying to learn. Mayor Johnston, my colleagues
are laughing about that. I do not find that funny. What would a
school day be like for a kid in your city when ICE suddenly
bangs down on the door and abruptly grabs their teacher or one
of their friends?
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, sir. I was a teacher and I was a
school principal before I did this job, so I knew that our
school was often the safest place that kids came, and they
knew, there, they could learn, they could get support, they get
access to services. And many of our kids come from mixed-status
families. They do not know their status. They do not know their
mom's status or their dad's status. So, I have had families
before who have pulled their kids out of school, kids who were
citizens because they were worried that somehow their kids were
in danger because they did not know who was being taken. And
so, for us, the fastest way to make a city unsafe is to have
kids not feel safe in their own schools.
Mr. Frost. See, they want everybody to live in fear of
undocumented people. That is what they want to do. But I will
tell you, when I am in my district and I do roundtables, I have
done them with kids in elementary school, and I ask them what
they want us to do. They want us to ban assault weapons. They
say what they are actually scared of is being shot to death and
dying in their schools. And because of actions that the
Democratic administration took, the Biden Administration, with
Congress, gun violence has gone down in Denver 24 percent, 25
percent in Chicago, 40 percent down, homicides, in Boston. Gun
violence went up 45 percent under Trump. So, when they are in
charge, more people die. When they are in charge, we are
actually less safe. And I think that is an important thing that
we all have to keep in mind as they try to scare us in terms of
immigrants who are living in this country. Thank you, and I
yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Palmer from
Alabama.
Mr. Palmer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the witnesses
for being here. I just want to respond about crimes committed
by people here illegally. Every crime committed by someone in
the United States illegally is a crime that would not have been
committed. Laken Riley, Ruby Garcia, Rachel Morin, Jocelyn
Nungaray, the woman set on fire in the New York subway--these
are all assaults, rapes, murders, and other crimes that would
not have taken the lives of these people if those people were
not here illegally. They were given safe harbor.
Now, I want to ask you something. You all took an oath of
office. Mr. Adams, did you swear to uphold the Constitution of
the United States?
Mr. Adams. Yes, I do.
Mr. Palmer. How about you, Mayor Johnson?
Mr. Johnston. Yes, sir, I did.
Mr. Palmer. How about you, Mayor? The other Mayor Johnston.
Mr. Johnson. Yes, the Constitution of the United States as
well as the Constitution of Illinois.
Mr. Palmer. OK. And, Mayor, you did?
Ms. Wu. Yes.
Mr. Palmer. Are you familiar with the Supremacy Clause, any
of you?
Mr. Johnston. Yes, sir, I am.
Mr. Palmer. OK. Then under the Supremacy Clause, you
understand that the laws of the United States take precedent
over the laws of Colorado, over the laws of Illinois, over the
laws of Massachusetts, and your cities. Do you understand that?
Mr. Johnston. Yes, sir, I do.
Mr. Palmer. But when you declared your cities sanctuary
cities, you did so illegally. Do you understand that?
Mr. Johnston. Respectfully, sir, I would disagree with
that. We follow every single law.
Mr. Palmer. You are disagreeing with the law. It is against
the law to give sanctuary to people who have committed
felonies, and it is a felony to cross the border illegally.
Mr. Johnston. There is no----
Mr. Palmer. You gave sanctuary to people who are here
illegally. You violated your oath to uphold the Constitution.
Because of the Supremacy Clause, the laws of the United States
take preference, but you did not do that.
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, sir. There is no part of our city
law that violates Federal law, no part of the practices or
services we provided that violate Federal law.
Mr. Palmer. Did you personally violate the law then by
giving sanctuary? Somebody gave these people sanctuary. The
city of Boston was declared a sanctuary city by you, Mayor.
Ms. Wu. Being a sanctuary city, as you describe it, or
being a city, as we describe it, that is home for everyone, it
means that if you commit a crime, you are held accountable,
regardless of immigration status.
Mr. Palmer. When you give safe harbor to people who are
here illegally, and when you interfere with the officers of the
law who are there to even remove people that you know have
committed crimes, you have violated your oath of office. You
have committed a crime.
Mr. Chairman, I do not understand why we have not been
discussing obstruction of justice. I mean, get real about this.
We have a problem in the country with the people who have come
here illegally, and I just gave you a few names of people who
have been raped and murdered. There are numerous others. There
is a whole organization established called Remembrance to
remember the people who have been assaulted, raped, murdered in
this country because certain cities, certain officials decided
to give sanctuary to people who came here illegally and
committed these crimes. It goes all the way back to Kate
Steinle, San Francisco, shot by someone who was here illegally.
She would still be alive today. She died in the arms of her
father. So, again, I want to know if you understand the
supremacy clause, that the laws of the United States are
supreme over whatever your opinions might be of what the laws
are.
Mr. Johnston. Sir, I do recognize that. We do follow that.
I want to clarify that we actively, aggressively pursue any
known criminal in the city, and we actually partner with
Federal Government to do that. If there is someone with a
criminal warrant, we are searching for them. We have Federal
task forces we are partners of to break up gang activity. We do
that for drug trafficking, we do that on armed robberies, so we
are in partnership with the Federal Government on many issues
around the city.
Mr. Palmer. Mayor Adams is being attacked because he has
agreed to cooperate with Federal officials to uphold the laws
of the United States. I have not heard any of you in defense of
that.
Mr. Johnston. We are absolutely upholding the laws of the
United States. We do it every day, and we will continue to do
it.
Mr. Palmer. I just think we need to do a deeper dive into
this, Mr. Chairman. If it were up to me, I mean, I would be
considering referring charges. I think we have got a problem
here when we decide that there are some laws that we will obey
and some laws that we will not. I do not care who it is,
Republican, Democrat. I do not care what office you hold, we
need to abide by the laws passed by the United States.
Ms. Crockett. Will the gentleman yield?
Mr. Palmer. No, I will not yield. Mr. Chairman, I thank you
for the time. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. We are going to
have two more questioners, then we are going to have to take a
break at the request of the witnesses, a 15-minute break, maybe
20 if we need that. But the Chair recognizes Mr. Casar, and
after him, then Mr. Higgins, and we will proceed with the
break, but the Chair recognizes Mr. Casar.
Mr. Casar. Good morning.
Mr. Adams. Good morning.
Ms. Wu. Good morning.
Mr. Johnston. Good morning.
Mr. Casar. Mayor Wu, can you tell us a little bit, just
maybe 20 seconds, about how your administration has helped
address unemployment, especially amongst youth in your city
which we know is a risk when we have high levels of young
people unemployed.
Ms. Wu. We made a commitment, our mayor's guarantee, that
any young person in the Boston Public Schools who wanted a paid
summer job would get one, and we fulfilled that with the
partnership of businesses and companies and organizations
throughout the city. Record numbers participating.
Mr. Casar. Thank you, Mayor Wu. Mayor Johnson, can you tell
us a little bit about measures your office has implemented to
address the root causes of violence in Chicago?
Mr. Johnson. Thank you for that question, yes. So, first of
all, it is great to report that violence is down in the city of
Chicago, and it has gone down since I have been in office as a
result of a couple of measures. One, we have reopened three
mental health clinics because we are in a very severe mental
health crisis. We have also increased the number of youth
employment. We have hired almost 28,000 young people for last
summer. This year, we have an opportunity to hire up to 29,000
young people. We have also built more homes. Just last year, we
have appropriated $11 billion, 37,000 construction jobs, in the
works for almost 10,000 more affordable units. And we have
promoted and hired 200 detectives to increase trust between
community and law enforcement to solve the crimes that do occur
in our city.
Mr. Casar. Thank you so much. Mayors, I want to thank you
for the hard work you are doing every single day. Just in 40
seconds you have described building tens of thousands of homes
for people that need them, hiring detectives to solve cold
cases, building community trust to reduce violence, hiring
people to do incredible mental health work, and reducing the
youth unemployment rate. That is so much more than what the
Republican Majority can ever describe having ideas about, and
that is why they have dragged you before us today. They want to
point the finger at you because they have no plan on how to
address housing, no plan on how to reduce costs, no plan on how
to actually reduce violence in our communities. In fact, maybe
some of the only plans they have would be to make those issues
worse.
And I know that you all as mayors are doing one of the
hardest jobs in this country every single day. You are serving
your communities honorably, and they do not want the American
people to hear about how Boston has drastically dropped your
unemployment rate. They do not want the American people to hear
about how Chicago is dropping the rate of violence in the city.
But our job is to make sure the American people actually hear
the truth, and the truth is that you are pairing a law
enforcement response along with a mental health response and a
housing response and a jobs response to what is going on in
your cities, and that is so critical.
Republicans, on the other hand here, are going back to the
same old tactic, which is to say, find a vulnerable group of
people and let us blame them for everything that we can.
Anything bad that happens, let us go try to point the finger at
our political opponents, or at a vulnerable person, or at a
person of color from a faraway place, and that does not
actually solve real issues for the American people. Republicans
and their big boss donors blame immigrants for low wages
because they do not want the American people to see the
Republican plan to dismantle the NLRB to dismantle unions and
to never pass a bill raising wages for American workers.
They blame immigrants for housing costs because the
Republicans are dismantling the Department of Housing and Urban
Development and stripping affordable housing funding from this
country. They want to distract from the $8 million a day that
people like Elon Musk get in Federal contracts while they
attack hardworking immigrants, and while they attack officials
that are actually just trying to do their jobs.
Mayor Johnson, you have a limited number, I suppose, of
jail cells in Cook County and a limited number of law
enforcement resources. Is that correct?
Mr. Johnson. That is correct, and I do not have
jurisdiction over Cook County jails.
Mr. Casar. And you want to make sure that when somebody in
the city of Chicago calls 9-1-1, that they get an appropriate
response. Is that correct?
Mr. Johnson. That is correct.
Mr. Casar. And so, what I have been hearing all morning
from my Republican colleagues is they want the Federal
Government to go tell the city of Denver or the city of Boston
or the city of Chicago, they want the Federal Government to be
able to call you and take over your police resources or take
over your county's jail resources, and you do not even
represent the county, for whatever case they might come up
with, whether the person is dangerous or not. Instead of having
cities determine if somebody is dangerous and needs to be held,
instead of having cities say we want to make sure if you have
an emergency that we get somebody to you and do not just send
out our police to a call that may not be a priority just
because somebody in the Federal Government wants to go after
somebody with no criminal background and that is not a threat.
And so, with that, Mr. Chairman, right before I yield back,
I just want to thank people that are involved in local
government, city council members, neighborhood associations,
mayors, the people who keep our cities running. You deserve our
support in making your cities more safe. You deserve our
support----
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Casar [continuing]. Addressing housing instead of
hearings like this. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Higgins from
Louisiana.
Mr. Higgins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let us clarify for
America. Mayor Adams, Mayor Johnson, Mayor Johnston, and Mayor
Wu, are you here today under the advice of counsel, and do you
have counsel present? Yes or no.
Mr. Adams. I want to understand the question. Are we----
Mr. Higgins. Are you here today under the advice of
counsel, and do you have counsel present?
Mr. Adams. Do I have counsel present? I am here because we
were requested to appear.
Mr. Higgins. Did you have counsel prior to your appearance?
Mr. Adams. Yes, we did.
Mr. Higgins. Thank you. This is not a trap question. We
just want to clarify.
Mr. Adams. OK.
Mr. Higgins. You are here under the advice of counsel. Do
you have counsel present?
Mr. Johnson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Johnston. Counsel present. Here because I was invited.
Mr. Higgins. Did you get counsel before your trip here?
Mr. Johnston. We do have counsel. I was here----
Mr. Higgins. You get advice from your counsel?
Mr. Johnston. Yes.
Mr. Higgins. OK. Then you are under the advice of counsel.
Mayor Wu?
Ms. Wu. Yes.
Mr. Higgins. Thank you. I just want to clarify for
America--these mayors are all sanctuary city mayors, but the
narrative is no longer comfortable because 3 months ago we were
at the tail end of 4 years of millions and millions of illegals
coming into our country. It was out of control. The only thing
that has happened since then is we had an election in November.
And now we are not pulling the curtain back. We have ripped the
curtain from the rods. We have revealed to America just how
fast we could have secured our border if you had an executive
that was willing to enforce the law.
So, now we are paying attention to our municipalities, and
every one of them is lawyered up. They have changed their
narrative. We got example after example. The Mayor of Chicago,
``we must lead with and live by the promise of a sanctuary
city.'' The Mayor of Denver willing to go to jail in defense of
sanctuary city policy. The list goes on. But the policies of
these mayors and our previous President have consequences--
real-life consequences.
I have a family here today, Mr. Chairman, who lost their
beautiful loved one. This young man was killed by an illegal
immigrant in Texas that never should have been in our country.
He will never be here to raise his daughter, Ann Marie, to love
and cherish and honor and uphold his beautiful wife, Olivia.
And you mayors have responsibility not just to your communities
and the citizens you swore to serve, but, by extension, to the
entire republic.
Let me clarify. I was a cop for a long time. To honor the
jurisdictional authority of another law enforcement agency, you
do it every day in your city, guaranteed every one of you. If
you have an inmate in your city on city charges and that inmate
has a felony warrant from a neighboring county or another
county in your state, and that county contacts your city while
you have that inmate in detention and ask you to hold them for
them to come pick it up upon release, guaranteed you release
that inmate to the county over or to your state police. But you
are not doing it for ICE, and ICE is responsible to remove
millions of criminal, hard-edged criminal, illegals from our
country, and we have had enough. America is fed up with this
betrayal of oath, and you will be held accountable. One of you
said you are willing to go to jail. We might give you that
opportunity, good mayor.
One of my colleagues mentioned the children. I always want
to talk of the children, separation of children, and at any
given time in America, there are 750,000 to 850,000 American
citizen parents of minor children incarcerated in our country.
If you commit a felony in America, you get arrested and
prosecuted and convicted and incarcerated, you can expect to be
separated from your children. But let me say there is a sunset
to that separation because when you do your time, you will be
released. You can return to your family. This young man will
never return to his family, and he should have never been
removed from his family if we had a President and heads of our
municipalities that were willing to uphold the Federal law that
exists. America is moving into a new era of enforcement of our
own laws. Welcome to it. Mr. Chairman, I yield.
Chairman Comer. Very good.
Ms. Crockett. Mr. Chair, I have a unanimous consent.
Chairman Comer. All right.
Ms. Crockett. This is an article from Wired. It is February
18, 2025: ``U.S. funding cuts are helping criminals get away
with child abuse and human trafficking. Services supporting
victims of online child exploitation and trafficking''----
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Crockett. Thank you so much.
Chairman Comer. At the request of the witnesses, the
Committee will take a 20-minute break. Pursuant to the previous
order, the Chair declares the Committee in recess for 20
minutes.
[Recess.]
Chairman Comer. The Committee will come back to order.
The Chair recognizes Ms. Lee from Pennsylvania for 5
minutes.
Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, we have heard a lot of
accusations and sensationalism thrown around here today, which
is not new for this Committee, but I do think we need to be
clear about what we are really talking about today and what the
so-called sanctuary city policies actually mean. What
Republicans are calling sanctuary cities simply means that a
city or a state is not going to do the job of ICE for them.
That is it.
Republicans are acting like there is like a mythical
barrier that keeps ICE completely out of cities. If you are
listening to Fox News, they make it seem like there are police
at the borders of Chicago keeping ICE agents out, and that is
simply not the case. Republicans want every town, city, state
to dedicate their limited resources to entering what is called
a 287(g) agreement with ICE to either do their enforcement work
on the ground or hold people in custody for an additional 48
hours on detainers. That is 48 hours beyond the lawful
detention.
To be clear, that is illegal. In more than 700 counties in
at least nine states, there are policies or court decisions
limiting these ICE detainers as it is such a blatant violation
of the Fourth Amendment. And when people's Fourth Amendment
rights are violated, it is the cities, not ICE, who face civil
lawsuits. As a reminder to Republicans, the Fourth Amendment is
the one against unlawful searches and seizures. Just last year,
New York City's Department of Corrections had to pay $92.5
million in a settlement to those they unlawfully detained for
ICE. Republicans are putting these mayors between a rock and a
hard place, and the reason that they are doing this is because
Trump is trying to get them to do illegal things. If they work
for ICE, they risk violating their own residents'
constitutional rights and opening themselves up to costly
litigation, but if they do not do Trump's bidding, they are
being threatened with losing Federal funding.
Today's hearing is nothing more than a shakedown against
the mayors of some of our Nation's biggest cities and a part of
Trump's ongoing anti-city crusade. In Trump's America, if you
disagree with his priorities, then you lose Federal dollars.
Just last week, Donald Trump actually called city leaders who
oppose his cruel policies sick politicians. Just a few days
before that, his border czar, Tom Homan threatened that he
would be bringing hell on the city of Boston. Mayor Wu, what do
you think about these threats against Boston and their attempts
to force you to enact policies that are against the very things
your constituents voted for?
Ms. Wu. The laws are most important, and the safety of our
residents are most important. And what I hear from all of our
residents across every one of our neighborhoods is that, in
fact, undermining the trust is what would make our city less
safe. And so, we need everyone to feel secure in their
communities. Like, they can reach out, they can call 9-1-1 when
they need help, and in our city, those laws actually help
Boston police solve crimes.
Ms. Lee. Thank you. Mr. Bier, question for you. I had
always thought that my Republican colleagues were strong
supporters of state and local sovereignty and were against
intrusion from the Federal Government. Do you think this
lawsuit seems consistent with that position?
Mr. Bier. Oh, absolutely not. If you look at the Supreme
Court precedent on this, it came from a gun control law that
said that state and local governments had to cooperate with the
Federal Government on gun control. The Supreme Court said that
is unconstitutional. Not a single Member on this side, I
believe, would be against that Supreme Court decision.
Ms. Lee. There is nothing illegal about protecting people's
constitutional rights and due process education and equal
treatment under the law, but it is illegal for the Federal
Government to withhold Federal dollars that these cities'
taxpayer dollars have gone toward. Mayor Johnson, Chicago ranks
as one of the largest cities in the U.S. and has the third
largest metropolitan economy, boasting a GDP of $860 million.
This makes it one of the most economically diverse cities in
the Nation, correct?
Mr. Johnson. That is correct.
Ms. Lee. Would it be fair to say that your city generates
billions in taxpayer revenue and that the average taxpayer in
Chicago and Illinois contributes more than around $20,000 in
Federal income taxes, which is more than $1,310 above the
national average?
Mr. Johnson. That is absolutely correct.
Ms. Lee. But can we conclude that Chicago residents pay
significantly more in taxes than they receive in return,
contributing at least $5 in taxes for every $1 they get back in
Federal support?
Mr. Johnson. More than our fair share.
Ms. Lee. Thank you. Only nine states have taxpayers that
contribute more to the Federal Government than they receive.
All four of our mayors are from states on that list, yet
Republicans are saying that they should lose that money because
they do not agree with their dear leader. Trump and Republicans
are attempting to take money from blue cities and blue states
and give them to their red states. Republicans too often
demonize blue areas and cities that are the very areas that are
keeping the economy going. The attacks we have heard on mayors
today are not only shameful, they are dangerous capitulations
to the impulses of this President, who is trying to expand
executive power in nearly every direction.
I would like to thank our Mayors Wu, Johnson, and Johnston,
for coming in today, having the strength of courage to stand up
to this Administration. Thank you. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from
Arizona, Mr. Biggs.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, Mayor Adams--sorry,
over here--you have agreed today that New York City is a
sanctuary city. Is that right?
Mr. Adams. Based on the definitions, and, Congressman,
there is no uniform definition of that, but yes.
Mr. Biggs. Right, but that is what you have proclaimed.
Mayor Johnston, you have previously also declared that you are
a sanctuary city. Mayor Johnson, you said that Chicago must
lead with and live by the promise to be a sanctuary city. Mayor
Wu, you said Boston police and other departments cannot
cooperate with ICE when it comes to detaining on civil
warrants. Of course, I do not know what Mayor Johnston would
define it, but I do know that the Honorable Mayor Johnston from
Chicago, they call theirs a Welcoming City ordinance, and we
have got Ms. Wu, Mayor Wu, who has referred to hers as a safe
city. That is really interesting to me.
So, when you are a sanctuary city, you put limits on how
much you are willing to cooperate with Federal agencies'
efforts to remove illegal aliens, and your policies then
contravene Federal law. You just do. Under Title 8 of the U.S.
Code, it says, ``A Federal, state, or local government entity
or official may not prohibit or in any way restrict any
government entity or official from sending to or receiving from
the Immigration Naturalization Service any information
regarding citizenship or immigration status of any
individual.''
So, when I look at your guys' ordinances, and I got them
all up here, and they are really interesting stuff, in Denver,
I think you testified previously that you rely on the statutory
section--am I right--of the state statute, so let us just
review this. There is a distinction, and some of you have made
that. Mayor Johnston of Chicago made this repeatedly, and Mayor
Wu of Boston did. There is a distinction between criminal
warrant, and you say we cooperate on criminal warrant, but
there are two levels of cooperation at least. There is a
communication level, and there is a passing the person off.
That is one level of the criminal, but the civil, the civil
level, this is what I want to talk about for a second because
all of these ordinances proscribe communication and transfer of
someone where there is a civil warrant.
Now, I know that all of you understand that a removal order
is a civil order, and that means none of you and none of your
agencies within your municipalities are communicating or
passing over someone where there is an ICE removal detainer.
So, I do not care how many times, 1,226 or whatever it was in 7
years, I do not care how many times you do it, but if you are
not doing it for civil orders, then you are allowing people who
have a removal order, who had due process because that is how
you get it, that is how you get a removal order, you are
allowing them to stay in the country. You are in violation of
this law right here. You are. You are in violation of that law
right there, and you have got to start realizing what your
criminal culpability is on that, and that is really what we are
talking about here.
So, you do not think that is harboring, perhaps, but let us
take a look at that next statute, please, that next Federal
statute: ``In conducting investigations and hearings,
immigration officers and administrative law judges shall have
reasonable access to examine evidence of any person or entity
being investigated.'' If you are holding someone back, even if
it is under a civil warrant because that is what you said you
are not going to participate in, and you are preventing access
to that person or evidence, you are in violation of this. You
have criminal culpability under this, and you will notice there
is no mens rea requirement here. This is it. Every one of you
is exposed to criminal culpability here. That is the reality of
it.
Let us do the next one: ``Any person who, knowing that a
person is an alien, knowing or in reckless disregard,''--now
you got a culpable mens rea here--``of the fact that an alien
has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in
violation of law, conceals, harbors, or shields from detection,
or attempts to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection such
alien in any place.'' You will notice it does not make
distinction that all of you all want to make of criminal
warrants versus civil. You are all in violation of all three of
these statutes. You got criminal culpability. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. The Chair
recognizes Ms. Randall from Washington State.
Ms. Randall. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our
witnesses for taking the time to be here today. You know, I
represent the Northwest corner of the country, though I did
happily live in Boston for 10 years, safely, and Washington
State is proudly home to more than 1 million immigrants. We
know in Washington that our communities, like yours, are
stronger because of immigrants. We are fed because of
immigrants. We are able to take public transportation because
of the work of immigrants. We are able to work on building the
affordable housing that we need because of immigrants. We
receive quality healthcare because of immigrants. But this
Administration, as we see over and over and over, is more
concerned with deporting families than supporting families.
Their actions are rooted in hatred and fear and deliberate
misunderstanding. They say they want to lower costs, but what
their actions show us is the opposite.
Immigrants drive our economy, and this Administration's
mass deportations have disrupted small businesses, wreaked
havoc on our communities, all while families see their grocery
bills continue to rise and worry about their health care being
ripped away. My constituents are scared. They are writing to us
that they are afraid to go out in public, send their kids to
school, go to the grocery store without two other members of
their family or their neighbors with them. There are dozens of
families making emergency plans to make sure someone is legally
designated to take care of their children if they are detained
or deported, and in fact, our Governor had to create additional
policy to ensure that kids are not left alone when their
parents disappear.
We have heard from beet farmers and wheat growers and
florists, Christmas tree farms, grocers, and salal harvesters
that their businesses cannot continue without the support of
immigrants. We know that there is a huge economic impact to our
families and our communities. And Mayor Adams, per your
testimony in 2021 on immigrant New Yorkers, you stated that
including those who are undocumented, immigrants in New York
paid billions of dollars in taxes and contributed billions more
in spending power to the New York economy. Is that true?
Mr. Adams. Yes.
Ms. Randall. Yes. Thank you. So, one can imagine if this
Administration continues its mass deportation plans in cities
across the country, including New York, it would have a
significant impact on all our economies. Mr. Bier, can you
speak to what the economic impacts of mass deportation would
mean for the U.S. economy?
Mr. Bier. Absolutely. It would be devastating. You are
looking at an instant recession. If it was, you know, some
magic wand you could wave to get rid of all these people like
they want, that would be about a seven-percent drop in GDP.
That is well into the trillions of dollars in lost production
of goods and services that benefit Americans. And when you
really think about it, when it comes to the cities, right, it
is not equally distributed across the country. It is really
these cities and some others that are going to be
overwhelmingly impacted. So, those neighborhoods, you are
looking at a death spiral of economic activity when you remove
so much of the population. And of course, we talk about just
the people who are undocumented, but their children, their
spouses, all those people are going to be affected by mass
deportation.
Ms. Randall. Thank you so much. And, Mr. Chair, with
unanimous consent, I would like to enter this New York Times
article, ``Frustration Grows Inside the White House Over Pace
of Deportations.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Randall. Thank you so much. And, you know, this
Committee has been very interested in uncovering waste, fraud,
and abuse, and I would like to draw our attention to the ASMR
deportation flight that the Administration touted on their
official social media channels. While previous deportation
flights cost for about 101/2 hours, $47,000, this military
flight that was commandeered from its mission of national
security to take folks, who were in detention centers already,
to a stopover in Guantanamo cost us $299,250 for the same
flight. Folks in my community who are stationed at Joint Base
Lewis-McChord are being diverted from their essential missions
to go to Guantanamo to be layover stewardesses for this plan
that is just for clicks. It is just to continue to stir up
media. It is just to deliver on a promise that the President
made and that he is worried that he will be accused of letting
his base down if he does not carry out. Thank you.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Ms. Mace from South
Carolina.
Ms. Mace. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. All of the mayors here
today are actively working to harm the American people you
represent. You all have blood on your hands. I am going to ask
a series of yes or no questions today, and I would like to
remind all of you, you are under oath. I only want a yes or no
to my questions.
My first question, do you acknowledge breaking into our
country as a crime? Mayor Adams, yes or no, do you acknowledge
breaking into our country as a crime?
Mr. Adams. I acknowledge----
Ms. Mace. Yes or no?
Mr. Adams. I acknowledge----
Ms. Mace. OK, Honorable Johnston. He is not going to answer
the question. Yes or no, is breaking into our country against
the law? Yes or no.
Mr. Johnston. It depends on how you cross the border.
Ms. Mace. OK.
Mr. Johnston. Some----
Ms. Mace. Mayor Johnson, yes or no?
Mr. Johnston. Comprehensive immigration----
Ms. Mace. OK, that is not an answer. Mayor Wu?
Mr. Johnston [continuing]. Reform policies are what is
necessary in this moment.
Ms. Mace. Mayor Wu, do you have a better answer than these
gentlemen before you? Yes or no.
Ms. Wu. Yes.
Ms. Mace. OK. Do you believe it is acceptable for illegals
who commit heinous crimes be released back into the public
instead of being detained and deported? Mayor Adams, yes or no.
Mr. Adams. Anyone who breaks a crime should be detained----
Ms. Mace. Yes or no? This is not hard. Yes or no.
Mr. Adams. Anyone that break a crime should be detained.
Ms. Mace. OK. Mayor, yes or no.
Mr. Johnston. They should be deported.
Ms. Mace. OK. Mayor?
Mr. Johnson. Any individual that----
Ms. Mace. Yes or no.
Mr. Johnson [continuing]. Causes harm----
Ms. Mace. Yes or no.
Mr. Johnson [continuing]. And breaks the law----
Ms. Mace. OK. Mayor Wu?
Mr. Johnson [continuing]. Should be held accountable.
Ms. Mace. This is why you have a six-percent approval
rating because you suck at answering questions. Mayor Wu, yes
or no.
Ms. Wu. Anyone who is a public safety threat should be
prosecuted.
Ms. Mace. All right. I have my next question. When an
illegal alien rapes a woman, do you believe you are on the
right side of history? Mayor Adams, yes or no.
Mr. Adams. Say that question again.
Ms. Mace. OK. Mayor Johnston, when an illegal alien rapes a
woman, do you believe you are on the right side of history? Yes
or no.
Mr. Johnston. I will charge and prosecute them.
Ms. Mace. Yes or no. OK. You said you would go to jail,
didn't you?
Mr. Johnston. I will charge and prosecute everyone who is--
--
Ms. Mace. For harboring illegal aliens or something. Mayor
Johnson?
Mr. Johnson. Could you repeat your question, please?
Ms. Mace. When an illegal alien rapes a woman, do you
believe you are on the right side of history?
Mr. Johnson. Could you clarify that question?
Ms. Mace. OK. Mayor Wu, yes or no.
Ms. Wu. No. Rape is obviously horrible.
Ms. Mace. Then why are you letting rapists back out onto
the streets of Boston?
Ms. Wu. That is not true.
Ms. Mace. OK.
Ms. Wu. That is not what is happening in Boston.
Ms. Mace. When an illegal alien molests a kid, molests an
underage kid, do you pat yourself on the back for being
compassionate? Mayor Adams?
Mr. Adams. It is despicable, and he should be arrested.
Ms. Mace. Mayor Johnston?
Mr. Johnston. I prosecute folks that commit crimes like
that.
Ms. Mace. You guys let them out on the streets. Mayor
Johnson?
Mr. Johnson. We arrest violent criminals in the city of
Chicago.
Ms. Mace. Mayor Wu?
Ms. Wu. We investigate, arrest, and prosecute.
Ms. Mace. You guys do not sound very confident today. Would
your city honor an ICE detainer on an illegal alien who rapes
kids if one was issued today? Mayor Adams, yes or no.
Mr. Adams. In conformance with law, we will honor
detainers.
Ms. Mace. Mayor Johnston?
Mr. Johnston. If there is a criminal warrant, we will help
them pick them up. If there is no criminal warrant, we will
honor a notification request.
Ms. Mace. Mayor Johnson?
Mr. Johnson. Criminal warrants, we always cooperate with
Federal agents with a criminal warrant.
Ms. Mace. Mayor Wu?
Ms. Wu. Get a criminal warrant, we will enforce.
Ms. Mace. A criminal warrant. I am talking about an ICE
detainer on an individual who is here illegal who rapes kids.
Do you all hate Donald Trump more than you love your country?
Mayor Adams?
Mr. Adams. I respect my President. I respect my country.
Ms. Mace. Yes or no?
Mr. Adams. And I respect------
Ms. Mace. You are having the hardest time today. Mayor
Johnston?
Mr. Johnston. I love my country.
Ms. Mace. Yes or no?
Mr. Johnston. I love my country.
Ms. Mace. OK. Mayor Johnson?
Mr. Johnson. As a son of a pastor, I love everyone and this
country.
Ms. Mace. Mayor Wu?
Ms. Wu. I love my country and my city.
Ms. Mace. Are you all willing to go to jail for violating
Federal law? Mayor Adams?
Mr. Adams. I am not going to violate Federal law, so I do
not have to worry about that.
Ms. Mace. Mayor Johnston?
Mr. Johnston. We do not violate Federal law either.
Ms. Mace. You do not violate Federal law?
Mr. Johnston. We do not violate Federal law.
Ms. Mace. Is it violating Federal law if you do not honor
detainer requests from ICE?
Mr. Johnston. Absolutely not. In fact, the statute
Congressman Biggs shared, we explicitly follow. The statute
says you cannot prohibit city employees from sharing
information about someone's status with the government. We do
not prohibit that.
Ms. Mace. Do you love illegal aliens more than you love
your fellow countrymen?
Mr. Johnston. I love all the residents of the city and
county.
Ms. Mace. Mayor Johnson, are you willing to go to jail for
violating Federal law?
Mr. Johnson. The city of Chicago complies with all laws.
Ms. Mace. Oh, I highly doubt that. Mayor Wu?
Ms. Wu. We are not violating Federal law.
Ms. Mace. Mayor Wu, I have a last couple of questions for
you. Do you believe that ICE arresting a child rapist
``threatens everyone's safety?'' Yes or no.
Ms. Wu. No.
Ms. Mace. Does ICE arresting a murderous MS-13 gang member
threaten everyone's safety? Yes or no.
Ms. Wu. No.
[Poster]
Ms. Mace. I would like to hold up this quote of you where
you say, ``ICE's efforts actually threaten the safety of
everyone.'' Boston Mayor Michelle Wu. You are a hypocrite.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Subramanyam.
Ms. Pressley. Mr. Chairman, I have a unanimous consent
request. Mr. Chairman, I have a unanimous consent request.
Chairman Comer. Proceed.
Ms. Pressley. I would like to seek unanimous consent to
enter into the record this article, and I will do this as a
survivor of sexual violence myself. This is from Courts, March
2018----
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Pressley [continuing]. Data from Texas shows that U.S.-
born----
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered. We have put
it in the record.
Ms. Pressley. But I have not entered it.
Chairman Comer. You have what?
Ms. Pressley. Mr. Chair, I have several articles, I need to
enter them. Let me just go ahead with what the articles are,
what they speak to.
Chairman Comer. What is the next article?
Ms. Pressley. Let me proceed. Data from Texas shows that
U.S. born Americans----
Chairman Comer. No, no, that is not----
Ms. Pressley [continuing]. Commit more rape----
Chairman Comer. Ms. Pressley, I----
Ms. Pressley [continuing]. And murder than immigrants.
Chairman Comer. Listen, this trend of----
Ms. Pressley. Data from Texas shows that U.S.-born
Americans commit more rape----
Chairman Comer [continuing]. You all trying to get thrown
out of committees so you can get on MSNBC is going to end. We
are not going to put up with it. The Chair recognizes Mr.
Subramanyam.
Ms. Pressley. This is my procedural right as a Member of
this Committee----
Chairman Comer. You can go----
Ms. Pressley [continuing]. To enter documents into the
record.
Chairman Comer. You can go with Mr. Frost and Mr. Green.
Ms. Pressley. I am reclaiming my time.
Chairman Comer. That is what you want.
Ms. Pressley. You do not get to----
Chairman Comer. No, no. Ms. Pressley.
Ms. Pressley [continuing]. How I recite the articles for
the record.
Chairman Comer. Ms. Pressley, I have been very
accommodating to you. Mr. Subramanyam. Start the clock. Start
the clock. No, I do not----
Ms. Pressley. And I take particular umbrage as a survivor
of sexual violence. I will enter into the record.
Chairman Comer. Order, order.
Ms. Pressley. This is my right. Thank you.
Chairman Comer. No, no. It is Mr. Subramanyam's time.
Ms. Pressley. Mr. Chair.
Chairman Comer. No, you know the process of unanimous
consent. You are not recognized.
Ms. Pressley. I have several articles to enter into the
record.
Chairman Comer. Mr. Subramanyam, if you do not go, we are
going to recognize Mr. Timmons.
Mr. Subramanyam. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to
bring up a bill that is going to be before the Floor, H.R. 32,
a bill that would basically take away Federal grants if the
Administration thinks you are a ``sanctuary city,'' which, by
the way, is not even very well defined. I am not even sure from
reading the bill whether your cities are even sanctuary cities
to begin with. I think that is why that question may have been
difficult for you to answer.
But I think what is been very interesting to hear is how
well you have been able to integrate and welcome immigrants
into your communities, into your city's economies, and making
the best out of a difficult situation. I find that very
impressive. But I wonder, to the mayors here, you know, Mr.
Johnston, if you took away Federal grants, how would that
affect public safety of your city? Would that make your city
more safe or less safe, if we took away Federal grants from
your city?
Mr. Johnston. It would dramatically weaken public safety. I
mean, we would not be able to repair bridges that are falling
apart. It means we would not be able to put kids in preschool
or give veterans medical care. It would be catastrophic.
Mr. Subramanyam. Thank you. Mayor Johnson, the same
question.
Mr. Johnson. It would certainly undermine all of the
investments that we have made thus far. Since I have been
mayor, we have, you know----
Mr. Subramanyam. Public safety.
Mr. Johnson [continuing]. Provided $20 billion of new
investments that contribute to the overall safety of the city
of Chicago.
Mr. Subramanyam. Yes. Mayor Wu, same question. Would this
make your city of Boston more safe or less safe?
Ms. Wu. Withdrawing Federal funds would make us less safe.
Education makes us more safe, housing makes us more safe, and
we rely on those funds.
Mr. Subramanyam. Let us take Mayor Johnston. How did many
of the immigrants come to your city? You mentioned they came
from Texas. Is that right?
Mr. Johnston. That is correct, Congressman. They came on
buses sent from Texas, mostly from El Paso.
Mr. Subramanyam. I feel like we have the wrong people in
the room today. We have mayors of cities that are trying to do
their best with the situation that they have, and then we have
Governors in Texas and Florida who are busing folks up to your
cities. And so, you are trying to make the best out of this
situation, but somehow, they are trying to make our immigration
system worse, in essence, because they are taking the folks
that come over to their states and they are spreading them
across the country, and you are just trying to deal with that
situation. Would you characterize it as that, Mayor Johnston?
Mr. Johnston. Yes, sir. We are just trying to manage the
crisis in front of us, which is families being dropped off on
our city streets in the winter with no clothes. Our calling is
to make sure they are safe.
Mr. Subramanyam. And how would the Trump Administration's
funding freezes and cuts, would they undermine public safety in
your city, Mayor Johnston?
Mr. Johnston. They could dramatically undermine public
safety in our city, everything----
Mr. Subramanyam. Mayor Johnson, same question.
Mr. Johnson. It certainly will undermine community safety
if----
Mr. Subramanyam. Mayor Wu, same question.
Mr. Johnson [continuing]. The Federal Government undermines
the investments in people of Chicago.
Ms. Wu. It would undermine our safety, too.
Mr. Subramanyam. So, we are trying to make your cities more
safe, but there is a bill here in the name of making your
cities more safe actually makes your cities less safe. Would
you agree with that, Mayor Johnston?
Mr. Johnston. Yes, sir, I would.
Mr. Subramanyam. Mayor Johnson, same question.
Mr. Johnson. Yes.
Mr. Subramanyam. Mayor Wu, same question.
Ms. Wu. Yes.
Mr. Subramanyam. And I think this bill is actually, in a
way, extortion because you are basically trying to take away
funding from a city if they do not do what the Administration
wants you to do, but, you know, let us talk about extortion for
a minute. Mayor Adams, I think everyone's a little bit
concerned about the timeline of events that has led to your
case being dropped, and so Mayor Adams, did you meet with Tom
Homan on December 12 of last year?
Mr. Adams. Yes, I did.
Mr. Subramanyam. Did President Trump say publicly that he
considered pardoning you 4 days after that meeting? Yes or no.
Mr. Adams. I do not recall what the President said in
regard to that meeting.
Mr. Subramanyam. Well, he did. In January, did you meet
with President Trump at Mar-a-Lago? Yes or no.
Mr. Adams. Yes, I did.
Mr. Subramanyam. In this meeting, did you talk about
immigration enforcement with the President?
Mr. Adams. We talked about immigration in general.
Mr. Subramanyam. What did you talk about when it comes to
immigration?
Mr. Adams. Just how important it is to secure the border,
and they were able to do so. We saw a 90-percent decrease, and
I see that on my streets every day.
Mr. Subramanyam. Did you talk about your pending case with
the DOJ?
Mr. Adams. No, I did not.
Mr. Subramanyam. So, the case did not come up. Have you
ever talked about your case with the DOJ with the President?
Mr. Adams. No more than what you heard him on the trail say
that he thought it was important.
Mr. Subramanyam. I have not heard much. Tell me, have you
ever talked about your case in the DOJ with the President?
Mr. Adams. As I indicated previously, I am going to say it
again, this case is in front of Judge Ho, and out of deference
to him, he is a----
Mr. Subramanyam. Have you ever talked about your case with
anyone in the Trump Administration?
Mr. Adams. I am going to say this again. This case is in
front of Judge Ho, and out of deference to Judge Ho, he is
going to determine the outcome of this case.
Mr. Subramanyam. That is not answering the question. I am
going to ask you one more time. Have you ever talked about this
case with anyone in the Trump Administration?
Mr. Adams. This case is in front of Judge Ho, and out of
deference to Judge Ho, Judge Ho is going to decide the outcome
of this case.
Mr. Subramanyam. I think Mayor Adams is not answering the
question because he probably has, and I think there is a pretty
clear timeline here that indicates that a case is being dropped
in the name of trying to appease the President, who seems to be
OK with what is going on. Look, we can talk about the policy,
but I think there is a bigger problem here of public extortion
and almost an endorsement of this extortion, and it is becoming
the norm for this Administration. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. Chair recognizes Mr. Timmons from South
Carolina.
Ms. Stansbury. Mr. Chairman, before you do, I have a
unanimous consent request, please.
Chairman Comer. Ms. Stansbury, you are recognized.
Ms. Stansbury. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have four
articles I would like to enter into the record, titled: ``The
Mythical Tie Between Immigration and Crime,'' ``Undocumented
Immigrants Half as Likely to Be Arrested for Violent Crimes,''
Immigrants Significantly Less Likely to Commit Crimes,'' and
one titled, ``Showing Data About U.S.-Born Citizens More Likely
to Commit Murder.'' And, Mr. Chairman, I do ask that you do
respect my colleagues' on this side of the aisle parliamentary
rights with regard to UCs.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Your unanimous consents are put into the record, and only
titles are required, and once you start filibustering, you
become out of order.
Ms. Stansbury. I am not filibustering.
Chairman Comer. I am just saying the last----
Ms. Stansbury. I am asking that you----
Chairman Comer [continuing]. Member on your side was
filibustering.
Ms. Stansbury. She was not. She has more articles to enter.
Chairman Comer. Yes, she was.
Mr. Timmons. And now you are filibustering.
Ms. Stansbury. Mr. Chairman? Mr. Chairman?
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Timmons from South
Carolina.
Mr. Timmons. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to speak
directly to all four of the mayors. You all did the best you
could with bad situations. You did. The former President let
in--I do not even know what number to use--some places use 8
million, some people use 16, 20, whatever the number is. And
so, each of you had an influx of illegal immigrants into your
cities, and you have Federal, state, and local statutes that
you have to deal with and an untenable situation was created. I
want to go one by one. Mayor Adams, how many illegal immigrants
were present in New York City in the last 4 years? How many
people did you have to deal with?
Mr. Adams. Two hundred thirty thousand.
Mr. Timmons. All right. And that is 230,000 people that
were using your limited resources that American citizens are
entitled to, but you were actually required, under local
ordinance or under state law, to provide services to them. They
are not supposed to be here. They are not supposed to be here
because we have borders. Borders are supposed to matter. Mayor
Johnston, how many illegal immigrants did you have to deal with
over the last 4 years?
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, sir. We had 42,000 newcomers
arrive over the last----
Mr. Timmons. Forty-two thousand? Mayor Johnson, how many
illegal immigrants did you have to deal with over the last 4
years?
Mr. Johnson. Over the last 4 years, there were roughly
50,000 asylum seekers bussed from the state of Texas to the
city of Chicago.
Mr. Timmons. And you know why that Texas did that? Because
10, 12, 15 million people were in Texas and they had to deal
with the same problem you did, and they thought it was
appropriate that everyone should have to share this burden.
Mayor Wu, how many did Boston have over the last 4 years?
Ms. Wu. We do not ask about immigration status in giving
state services----
Mr. Timmons. How many people----
Ms. Wu [continuing]. So, I do not have that number.
Mr. Timmons. OK. Well, we will say at least tens of
thousands. So, all of you have limited resources, limited tax
dollars to spend to serve your community, and there are people
that have a disproportionate need, and you have obligations to
serve them more if they are struggling, if they do not have
income, if they are jobless. So, you have limited resources,
and all of you had this problem. And we have been saying for
the last 4 years that this is all because Joe Biden and his
policies were allowing lawlessness at our Southern border,
which allowed millions of people into this country. Mayor
Johnston, did you say anything to the Biden Administration? Did
you say we are struggling, we cannot make ends meet, we cannot
serve our citizens because of your open Southern border. Did
you, Mayor Johnston?
Mr. Johnston. Yes, Congressman. I did reach out to the
Biden Administration about that.
Mr. Timmons. Did you publicly address this? Did you ever
challenge them and say this is ridiculous, secure the Southern
border?
Mr. Johnston. What we focused on, sir, was the biggest
challenge we were facing was folks needed the right to work.
They came to our city----
Mr. Timmons. I could not find anything where you told the
Biden Administration they are wrong for their border policy.
Mayor Johnson, did you publicly attack President Biden in the
last 4 years because he let millions of people into this
country and it hurt your constituents? Did you publicly attack
him for his policies?
Mr. Johnson. So, I publicly called for----
Mr. Timmons. Did you say secure the damn border? No, you
did not.
Mr. Johnson. I publicly called for Congress to pass
comprehensive immigration reform.
Mr. Timmons. OK. We will get to that in a second.
Mr. Johnson. And that did not happen.
Mr. Timmons. Did you ever publicly attack the open-border
policies of the previous Administration?
Ms. Wu. Congressman, in fact, we hosted the former
Secretary of DHS in Boston so that he could see the impact----
Mr. Timmons. To talk about how we need legislation, I am
sure. Mayor Adams, did you ever publicly attack President Biden
for his open border policy?
Mr. Adams. Yes, in addition to having $7 billion out of our
taxpayers.
Mr. Timmons. Did you see what his Administration did to
political opponents? Did you see what they did to President
Trump? I mean, I guess you are standing up for your people. I
admire that. For the last 4 years, I heard how Congress needed
to spend tens of billions of dollars to secure the Southern
border. We had to change policies. We had to do all this
nonsense. We did not need to do any of that. We just needed a
new President. Last month we had the lowest number of border
crossings in decades, and I can promise you this, that is going
to continue because our President has always had the ability to
stop this, and the only one of you that stood up to the
previous Administration was under investigation shortly
thereafter. Weird how that happens.
We are turning the page here. Going forward, each of you
need to cooperate, to the fullest extent of your ability, with
President Trump, with ICE, with all Federal laws to make sure
that you can secure your people and stop spending billions of
taxpayer dollars on people that do not deserve it. Your
constituents deserve those resources, not the people that enter
this country illegally. With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. The Chair
recognizes Ms. Ansari from Arizona.
Ms. Ansari. Thank you, Mr. Chair. President Trump has
talked a big game about how he wants to allegedly make our
cities and communities safer. He says he wants to get violent
criminals off the streets, and he thinks that mass deportations
are the way to do it. He sent ICE and Border Patrol agents
after our Native-American communities, parents and children and
law-abiding American citizens who are targeted simply because
of the color of their skin or the language that they are
speaking. The chaos and the fear that this has instilled pits
neighbor against neighbor, creates more distrust in law
enforcement, and puts us all in danger. Mayor Wu, first of all,
congratulations on your baby. What have you been hearing from
communities in Boston? Are people fearful of engaging with law
enforcement?
Ms. Wu. In Boston, because our laws are what they are, we
have very strong relationships with our community, and that is
why we have been able to continue making progress on being the
safest major city in the Nation. But we do hear that people are
afraid of the Federal Government, and it is including people
who are immigrants, but also U.S. citizens. That fear is
widespread.
Ms. Ansari. Thank you. Perhaps most disturbing, President
Trump has diverted critical Homeland Security Investigation
agents to work on immigration enforcement. That means they are
no longer investigating violent crimes like human trafficking,
child pornography, and the flow of fentanyl in our communities,
putting our entire country at greater risk. That means fewer
violent criminals, pedophiles, and drug runners being
apprehended, not more. Once again, Republicans are making life
easier for criminals at the expense of victims, actually making
our communities less safe. Mr. Bier, question for you, what
effect do you think that assigning DHS agents to deportations
is going to have on public safety?
Mr. Bier. Well, it has an extremely negative effect, and it
is not just limited to DHS. He is pulling in FBI, ATF, DEA.
They are all being diverted off their primary missions to crack
down on criminal gangs and criminal organizations in the United
States, so it is not just DHS. It is every criminal agency in
the U.S. Government is being diverted to mass deportation right
now.
Ms. Ansari. The Phoenix police chief has stated, ``We work
with our Federal partners all the time to work on criminal
issues, not civil immigration issues. That will continue to be
the stance of the Phoenix Police Department.'' I can tell you,
during my time on the Phoenix City Council, I served on the
Public Safety and Justice Subcommittee. I heard constantly from
our police force that they are understaffed and need to focus
their resources on violent crime. But President Trump has also
tried to force municipalities to divert their law enforcement
personnel to aid the mass deportations. Diverting city police
to deportations would mean that our officers are spending less
time investigating murders, rapes, and robberies.
Now I want to shift to the economy. Mayor Wu, would you
agree that local leaders and public safety officials who hear
directly from constituents about public safety know better what
your city needs to focus on than the White House does? And
also, are you worried about ICE raids and the impact that it
will have for businesses and economic prosperity?
Ms. Wu. Yes, our local community knows best, and we can
tell you, in Boston, over our history, it has not been the word
of Presidents or kings or Presidents who think they are kings
that set what happens. It is our residents.
Ms. Ansari. And, Mr. Bier, can you tell us more on what the
economic impacts, like food prices and housing costs, of mass
deportations would be and how this could affect a city like
Phoenix?
Mr. Bier. About half the cost of the fruits and vegetables
in your grocery store is coming from the labor of immigrants
and other workers at our farms, so it is an extremely important
component of our agricultural production in the United States.
If you look at where these people have gone, they have gone
into the sectors where there is no work visa. There is no legal
immigration option for employers to hire in these sectors. That
is why we had so many people come because of the labor needs of
the United States.
Ms. Ansari. Thank you so much. I truly want to thank the
mayors for being here and taking on these ridiculous attacks on
our local officials. You know what is best for your communities
and the people that you represent. You know better than Donald
Trump. You know better than Tom Homan. You know better than
Stephen Miller. So, thank you so much.
And finally, I would like to request unanimous consent to
enter into the record, first, a report published by the
American Immigration Council titled, ``Mass Deportation:
Devastating Costs to America, Its Budget and Economy;'' and
second, a Center for American Progress report titled, ``Trump's
Rash Immigration Actions Place Cruelty and Spectacle Above
Security.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Ansari. Thank you. I yield back to the Ranking Member.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Donalds from
Florida.
Mr. Donalds. Thank you, Chairman. This is my third term on
the Oversight Committee. We have been talking about illegal
immigration and oversight the entire time. I remember we had a
group of this Committee that went down to the El Paso section
of the border. This was back in February-March 2021. And during
that time period, we were at one of the holding centers, and
there were these busses that were coming to the detention
facility, and they were picking up 30 kids, 50 kids, at random,
walking out of the facility. And when I went over to question
the bus driver that was transporting these kids, border agents
told me, as a Member of Congress, that you are not allowed to
question the bus driver, and of course, people knowing me, I
did not take no for an answer, and I repeated the question, and
I was told that this bus of children was leaving El Paso and
going to San Diego.
And so, what was occurring under the Biden Administration
is that they were bussing unaccompanied minors all across the
United States for one reason and one reason only, and that was
because they did not want the press to see the pictures of kids
in cages. They did not want to see our borders being overrun.
They wanted to disperse that problem all through the United
States. That is the reckless history of illegal immigration
under Joe Biden and the Democrat Party. Mayor Johnston of
Denver.
Mr. Johnston. Yes, sir.
Mr. Donalds. You lamented earlier that there were 10 to 11
busses coming per day to your city. Did you ever talk to Joe
Biden about why this was happening to your community?
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, Congressman. I both reached out to
Governor Abbott from Texas. He did not respond, and I did----
Mr. Donalds. Why would you reach out to Governor Abbott of
Texas when it is Joe Biden, the former Commander in Chief, that
opened up our borders? Why did you not talk to him?
Mr. Johnston. Well, our busses directly were being sent
from Governor Abbott in Texas, so that was why we reached out
to say we are happy to collaborate on a coordinated entry
system. We understand no one state or no one city should bear
the entire brunt of this, but let us collaborate. But I did----
Mr. Donalds. So, I am glad you said that because that
brings me to my next point. Governor Abbott and Governor
DeSantis, when they started moving illegal aliens out of their
states, who were bearing the brunt of what Joe Biden and Kamala
Harris were doing, and they had sent them to Denver, they sent
them to Chicago, they sent them to New York, they sent them to
Martha's Vineyard, the reason why they did that is because you
four could hide behind the realities of illegal immigration on
border towns all through our country and on cities and states
who did not want to see illegal immigration, but did not have
the political representation to go to the White House. And only
when it showed up on your doorstep, did you get upset.
Mayor Johnston, coming back to you. How much did your city
spend on illegal immigration? Do you have a round number?
Mr. Johnston. Over the last couple years on all newcomers,
whatever their status was, it is around $79 million since 2022.
Mr. Donalds. Seventy-nine million dollars. Mayor Johnson,
Chicago, how much has the city of Chicago spent on illegal
immigration?
Mr. Johnson. If you are referring to the 2022 up to 2024 of
the busses coming from Texas, roughly the same percentage of
the state of Texas, about 1 percent of our overall budget.
Mr. Donalds. What is that, because we do not have the
city's budget in front of me. Numbers?
Mr. Johnson. It is one percent, and if you want the actual
calculation, we can make sure someone----
Mr. Donalds. You are the mayor. You do not have the math in
front of you?
Mr. Johnson. It is one percent of the overall budget over
the last year 4 years----
Mr. Donalds. All right. That is why you are failing, Mayor.
Mr. Johnson [continuing]. Which is the same number that was
sent from us from the state of Texas.
Mr. Donalds. Mayor Adams, how much did the city of New York
actually spend on legal immigration? Mayor Johnson, I already
asked you. You do not have a hard number, and if you do not
have a hard number, you are not running your city well. Mayor
Adams, how much did the city of New York actually spend on
illegal immigration?
Mr. Adams. Six-point-nine billion dollars of taxpayers'
dollars.
Mr. Donalds. Six-point-nine billion dollars of taxpayer
money on a problem that was fostered on the American people.
Mayor Wu, in the city of Boston, how much did you spend?
Ms. Wu. We do not ask about immigration status in
delivering citizens services, so we do not have that number.
Mr. Donalds. You do not ask about how much money the city
of Boston has spent on illegal immigration? Are you out of your
mind?
Ms. Wu. We do not distinguish between immigration status--
--
Mr. Donalds. Do you manage your budget or not, Mayor Wu?
Ms. Wu [continuing]. As part of our city policies. That is
how we keep our city safe.
Mr. Donalds. Mayor Wu, do you manage your budget or not?
Ms. Wu. We have the numbers to prove it. I manage my
budget. I have a AAA bond rating dating back 10 years, city of
Boston budget.
Mr. Donalds. So, to the city of Boston, just understand
that your mayor does not care how much of your resources she
has spent on people who are not citizens of the city of Boston.
Ms. Wu. The city of Boston is sick of having people outside
Boston telling us----
Mr. Donald. I am reclaiming my time. Mr. Bier, I have a
question for you because I understand Cato's perspective when
it comes to illegal immigration. I understand that the Cato
Institute for a long time has had a standard of actually having
open immigration into the United States, generally speaking. I
do not want to get into specifics.
Mr. Bier. We support legal immigration. We want immigration
to be legal.
Mr. Donald. So, let me ask you this question because one of
the great libertarians of the modern era, Milton Friedman,
famously said, ``You can either have open borders or a welfare
state, but you have to choose''. Mr. Bier, what do you choose?
Mr. Bier. Milton Friedman said he wanted to allow illegal
immigration to continue. I disagree with Milton Friedman's
position on that. We should have legal immigration and build a
wall around the welfare state, not around the country. That is
in the best interest of taxpayers.
Mr. Donalds. And I would argue that under the current
system where you have sanctuary cities popping up, it is not
possible to build that wall, so America has to choose.
Mr. Bier. You can. Absolutely, we can.
Mr. Donalds. Mr. Bier, you are done. America has to choose
between securing our Nation or protecting the taxpayer. I
choose secure the Nation. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. The Chair
recognizes Mr. Bell from Missouri.
Mr. Bell. Thank you, Mr. Chair. In the 1980s, there was the
war on drugs that did not go so well. We essentially created
classes of criminals for people, citizens who just needed help,
and I will not recount that entire history, but I do not think
that we realize the error of our ways until it impacted more
affluent communities, particularly with the opioid epidemic.
And so now, Republicans have begun a new campaign, a war on
immigrants. And while Republicans and Democrats both recognize
the need to strengthen our borders instead of sitting down and
actually fixing the border situation, as has been alluded to,
or actually we did that, but then after supporting it,
Republicans voted against it after their boss told them not to,
which really would have been a win for the American people.
So, as a former prosecutor, I recognize policing and
community relationships go hand-in-hand. You have to have them
in order to be effective with law enforcement and to get bad
people off the streets who are not going to commit a crime in
front of a police officer. Oftentimes, it is our people in our
communities who can help get those people off the street by
sharing and cooperating with law enforcement, but that starts
with trust. And understanding, as a former prosecutor, limited
resources, we have to be considerate of how we utilize those
resources. And so, my first question, Mr. Bier, and I am going
to go quick because I want to try to get to you all, why will
requiring a local police department to honor extrajudicial ICE
detainers or risk losing Federal funding make our cities less
safe?
Mr. Bier. Well, you are taking resources away from whatever
the higher priority is. So, if you are talking about carrying
out mass deportation and having state and local police detain
people who are not public safety threats, then you are talking
about in New York City, they are spending $1,500 a day on a
bed. So, that is $1,500 taken away from other public safety
priorities.
Mr. Bell. And, Mayor Wu, and congratulations again as well.
Ms. Wu. Thank you.
Mr. Bell. And first, you are welcome, for St. Louis, born
and bred, Jayson Tatum, you are welcome.
Ms. Wu. Thank you. Thank you.
Mr. Bell. Why is it in Boston's best interest to make sure
people who are experiencing domestic violence or victims of
violent crime feel comfortable coming forward to law
enforcement with the knowledge that local police are not
reporting them to ICE?
Ms. Wu. We need those who have information, we need those
who are victims and survivors of crime to know that they can
come forward and get the help that they need, and when that
happens, we keep everyone safer.
Mr. Bell. Absolutely. And many law enforcement agencies
have articulated that their primary responsibility is to keep
communities safe by focusing on violent crime and public safety
threats. However, deputizing requires officers to take on
Federal immigration duties, diverting resources and personnel
from their core mission. So, when cities use their discretion,
and, Mr. Bier, this is a quick question for you, do you believe
that this additional burden makes communities safer, or does it
risk overextending local departments at the expense of
addressing serious crimes?
Mr. Bier. I think states are best positioned to answer that
question. It certainly can, if you are imposing a mandate that
is distracting from their public safety mission. And it is
interesting to note that the Majority's bill on this, H.R. 32,
has an exception written in there for witnesses and victims of
crimes, if you do not report them, it is OK under that bill,
except no one is walking around with a victim or witness badge
on them.
Mr. Bell. And I have got a----
Mr. Bier. So, when a police shows up and responds to a
call, they do not know who is a witness or victim. So, the idea
that, you know, you can just cordon that off and put that to
the side, does not hold up.
Mr. Bell. I appreciate that. I am just short on time. And,
Mayor Johnson, I have two quick questions for you, and you can
give them the weight that you decide to give them. First, who
has more World Championships, the Cardinals or the Clubs? Mayor
Adams, I do not want you in on that one. Can you tell us about
the ways in which Chicago cooperates with Federal law
enforcement?
Mr. Johnson. Yes. Thank you for that question. Violent
crime in the city of Chicago is down. It continues to go down
on my leadership because of our investments, having trust
between community and police. Local police has attributed to
that, and our local police department allies and cooperates
with Federal agents around human trafficking, drug trafficking,
getting guns off the street, getting gangs off the streets of
the city of Chicago, and it has worked. And the first Black
First Lady in the history of Chicago is a Cardinals' fan. Shout
out to Hazelwood East.
Mr. Bell. Hey, that is my school. Thank you. I yield back
to the Ranking Member.
Mr. Adams. And it is the Yankees.
Mr. Bell. No questions for you, Mr. Adams.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mrs. Luna from
Florida.
Mrs. Luna. Mayor Wu, does the Boston Trust Act restrict
communication with Federal immigration authorities regarding
individuals' immigration status. Yes or no.
Ms. Wu. We do not collect immigration status in law
enforcement.
Mrs. Luna. I just like to point out, and, Mr. Chairman, if
I could enter the Boston Trust Act into the record. Mr.
Chairman?
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mrs. Luna. Thank you. Let us see, Section 4(A)(a), ``A law
enforcement official and employment of the city department,
agency, or commission shall not,'' and then, ``(a) inquire of
an individual on his or her immigration status.'' Under Title 8
U.S. Code, Subsection 1373 stipulates that local governments
cannot prohibit or restrict communication with Federal
immigration authorities regarding individuals' immigration
status. So, your enforcement of this act is in direct violation
of that statute. Can you please confirm?
Ms. Wu. That is not the truth.
Mrs. Luna. Thank you, ma'am. That is the U.S. Code. I do
not know about you, but U.S. Code does not lie. Mayor
Johnston----
Ms. Wu. We do not ask about immigration status, and that is
what makes us the safest city.
Mrs. Luna. I am not talking to you anymore. Next question,
Mayor Johnston, you said in your testimony that the first step
you took after illegal aliens arrived was to provide them with
housing. Is that correct? Yes or no.
Mr. Johnston. Folks that were on the streets freezing to
death, we gave access to shelter? Yes, we did.
Mrs. Luna. Thank you. Not to be rude here, but you have a
good understanding of what the definition of ``harboring'' is,
correct?
Mr. Johnston. I do.
Mrs. Luna. OK. For those that might not, ``harboring''
means to knowingly or recklessly provide shelter or place to
stay for an illegal alien, and according to Title 8 of U.S.
Code, Subsection 1324, that is also a Federal crime. Just to be
clear, did you also say that you would be willing to go to jail
to stop deportation efforts?
Mr. Johnston. I did say that I would be willing to stand up
for all of our residents, and the context was that was the
point at which the Administration was threatening to deploy the
U.S. military to streets of our cities to pull kids out of
schools and churches.
Mrs. Luna. OK. Thank you.
Mr. Johnston. So, we were worried about that.
Mrs. Luna. Thank you, Mr. Johnston. Mr. Chairman, I would
like to enter into the record an article from CBS.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mrs. Luna. Thank you. In this it says, ``Johnston said
earlier this week that he is willing to use civil disobedience,
and if necessary, going to jail to stop deportations.'' My
final question would be for you, Mayor Johnson, do you believe
that Chicago's Welcoming City ordinance encourages illegal
aliens to enter the United States, specifically into Chicago.
Yes or no.
Mr. Johnson. No.
Mrs. Luna. OK. So, you do not believe that banning the
transfer of individuals into ICE custody for the purpose of
civil immigration enforcement encourages illegal immigration
into Chicago, or how about agencies--sorry, 1 second--or agents
not being able to stop, arrest, or detain individuals based
solely on their immigration status or administrative warrants?
Mr. Johnson. So, we comply with all laws, local, state and
Federal.
Mrs. Luna. To me, after this line of questioning, it is
very clear that these policies that you have all implicated are
active and alive and well in your cities, are in direct
violation with U.S. Title 8 Code Subsection 1324 and is a
Federal offense. You all speak about a broken immigration
system, and yet here you guys are aiding and abetting in that
entire process. I want to be very clear about something. Open
border policies, which is something that you guys are talking
about, hurts people on both sides, meaning the people that are
coming here illegally and then American citizens as well. I do
not think you guys are bad people, but I think that you are
ideologically misled, which is why, unfortunately, based on
your responses, I am all going to be criminally referring you
to the Department of Justice for investigation. And as soon as
I leave here, these will be going over to Pam Bondi.
I am not doing that to an effort to bully you guys, but I
do believe that your policies are hurting the American people,
and you can make that known with the evidence that you can
present the Department of Justice. But if you guys continue
doing what you are doing, you are not going to help anyone. You
are going to hurt more people, and that is exactly why I am
tired of it, the American people are tired of it, and,
Chairman, I yield my time.
Chairman Comer. Would you yield your last minute?
Mrs. Luna. Yes, sir.
Chairman Comer. Mayor Adams, you were one of the first
mayors in what the media refers to as a Blue City, typically,
that came out and raised concerns about the influx of illegals
pouring into the city of New York. Could you answer the
question what that did to New York City from a from a budgetary
standpoint? Let us not even talk about crime or anything. Let
us just talk about the burden on the citizens of New York City.
Mr. Adams. As I indicated, Mr. Chairman, we spent $6.9
billion, and the long-term impact of that is extremely
significant. After COVID, we had a large number of children who
was chronically absent. We could have taken $200 million of
that and dealt with that. We have a real mental health crisis
in our city. We could have spent hundreds of millions of
dollars on that. And so, the long-term impact of spending $6.9
billion is going to have serious ramification on the future of
New York City, so it is more than just what happened last year
or this year. It is what is going to impact us long-term.
Chairman Comer. And I think that is one of the purposes of
this hearing, to talk about the consequences from cities that
have huge illegal alien populations. The Chair now recognizes
Ms. Pressley from Massachusetts.
Ms. Pressley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mayor Wu, I am
grateful for our longstanding partnership in public service. I
am grateful to be your Congresswoman as well as your
constituent.
Mr. Connolly. Is your mic on?
Ms. Pressley. Can I get that time back? All right.
Again, grateful for our longstanding partnership in public
service, grateful to be your Congresswoman, and grateful to be
your constituent. It is clear my colleagues across the aisle
did not do their homework because the fears and division they
are trying to project on to Boston are really the stuff of Fox
News Fever Dreams. Our city is vibrant. Our city is diverse.
Our city is beautiful. Mayor Wu, immigration is central to the
economic success of Boston, is it not?
Ms. Wu. Absolutely. All of our key industries, whether it
is healthcare, life sciences, higher education, financial
services, everything that we do depends on immigrant residents
and the contributions that they make.
Ms. Pressley. Thank you, Mayor. Well, immigration defines
Boston. You know, for generations our city has been shaped by
people who have endured incredible hardships to arrive at our
shores seeking a better life. They drove taxis, opened
restaurants, studied at our schools, built homes, repaired our
roads and bridges, cared for patients, cleaned offices, built
businesses, provided essential early education and childcare
for our babies. There is no doubt immigration is essential to
the success of Boston, but there is, in fact, a dark threat
looming over this great city. That threat is the racist and
xenophobic anti-immigrant policies coming from this Trump White
House.
Mr. Chair, I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record
this Boston Globe article titled, ``They are Going to Deport
us: Trump's Immigration Policies Prompt Some Children to Skip
School.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Pressley. Mayor Wu, I have been speaking to principals
and educators in Boston at various roundtables and town halls
that I have convened, and the stories are heartbreaking.
Elementary school children are crying in their teachers' arms,
fearful that they are going to lose their parents to cruel and
unjust deportation raids.
Mayor Wu, last week I met with an esteemed doctor from a
local Boston hospital who reported that follow-up appointments
in her clinic have seen a 200 percent spike in no-shows and
cancellations. Her assessment? Her patients are missing
critical care, like dialysis, prenatal care and chemotherapy,
because of a fear of immigration raids in our hospitals and
healthcare settings. Mayor Wu, do you agree with this
healthcare provider?
Ms. Wu. Absolutely. We hear it from our shared
constituents. People are afraid, and that is having huge impact
on their daily lives when they are just trying to do right and
be a good example for their kids as they pursue the American
Dream.
Ms. Pressley. Mr. Chair, I ask unanimous consent to enter
into the record this article titled, ``Fearful Amid ICE
Crackdowns, Some Immigrants are Skipping Healthcare.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Pressley. So, here we have a man who thinks he is king,
screaming anti-immigrant slurs from the Oval Office, and what
has it done to make Boston safer? Nothing. Not a thing. But it
has traumatized our kids, cost our elders their dialysis,
delayed cancer patients' chemotherapy, and struck fear into the
heart of hardworking people who not only contribute immensely
to our city and our community, but whose labor and
contributions are also essential to the very functions of daily
life in our great city.
The Members of this Committee would be well served by
learning from our esteemed Mayor, but a teach-in is not the
charge of this Committee. I would remind my colleagues this
Committee's purpose is oversight. The only person who has
something to answer for is Donald Trump. He is singlehandedly
decimating decades of economic progress, vilifying our
immigrant neighbors, and disregarding the Constitution and
basic decency daily. This man points to our most vulnerable,
scapegoats them for every hardship, while he himself is
actually the source of the hardship that the American people
are experiencing.
My colleagues do not really care about criminality. If you
really cared about criminality, you would do something about
Elon Musk's power grab stealing our data. You would do
something about efforts to defund the National Institutes of
Health cancer research. If you really cared about criminality,
you would do something about people that want to rob our babies
of food. Make it make sense. My Republican colleagues across
the aisle believe a 6-year-old from El Salvador who wants to go
to school and a mom who fled violence in Haiti are the reason
that the cost of eggs are too damn high. And your housing and
gas will follow suit, surely because of these Donald Trump
tariffs. The shameful Republican rip-off, slashing away basic
government services to line the pockets of Donald Trump's
buddies so they can buy toy yachts and rocket ships. It is a
shame and a sham. America has a problem, and it is Donald
Trump. If my colleagues really cared about criminality, they
would do something about him.
I am grateful that the people of Boston and my Mayor stand
with their neighbors from every walk of life. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Gill from Texas.
Mr. Gill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this hearing
on such an important topic. Mayor Johnson, I want to start with
you. One of your first actions as Mayor was establishing a
Deputy Mayor for immigrant, migrant and refugee rights. I want
to ask you a series of questions. If you could answer with a
yes or no answer, that would be great. First of all, do you
support allowing illegal aliens to obtain driver's licenses?
Just yes or no.
Mr. Johnson. So, the city of Chicago has been a welcoming
city for over 40 years as a policy.
Mr. Gill. I will take that as a ``yes''. Next question, do
you----
Mr. Johnson. And that is the policy that we will hold to.
Mr. Gill. Do you support tax dollars subsidizing or paying
for the healthcare of illegal aliens?
Mr. Johnson. I support investments in all residents and the
people of Chicago, and that is what I do.
Mr. Gill. That is yes as well. Do you support free or
reduced college for illegal aliens?
Mr. Johnson. Again, I support the investments of all
residents and the people of Chicago.
Mr. Gill. I will take that is a ``yes''. Next question, do
you support allowing noncitizens to vote in local elections?
Mr. Johnson. I am not over the jurisdiction of that type of
law, but, again, I am committed to investing in all residents
and the people of Chicago.
Mr. Gill. I will take that as a ``yes''. I have got an
article from the Chicago Sun-Times, ``Johnson proposed, among
other things, that all residents, regardless of citizenship
status, be able to vote for Chicago Board of Education
members.'' Next question, your website states, and this is your
campaign website, ``I will not stop fighting until abortion
access is completely secure for people all over the country.''
Yes or no, do you support taxpayer-funded abortions for illegal
aliens?
Mr. Johnson. I support the reproductive rights of all
people, all women.
Mr. Gill. I will take that as a ``yes'' as well. Your
mayoral transition website mentions support for creating a
Chicago Board of Education Non-Citizen Advisory Board. Again,
yes or no, do you support appointing non-citizens to government
advisory boards?
Mr. Johnson. I was invited here today to discuss a
Welcoming City.
Mr. Gill. It is a yes or no.
Mr. Johnson. I was invited here to discuss Welcoming City.
Mr. Gill. This is a yes or no question.
Mr. Johnson. If you are interested in asking me questions
about the Welcoming City----
Mr. Gill. You are not going to talk about that. I will take
that as a ``yes.''
Mr. Johnson [continuing]. I am happy to answer those
questions.
Mr. Gill. No, we are going to move on. As you know,
President Trump, unlike the previous administration, has taken
serious action to bring foreign criminal gangs to justice, to
take our border back, and to restore public safety in our
communities. He designated eight transnational criminal
organizations and cartels as foreign terrorist organizations.
These are groups like Tren de Aragua, MS-13, Sinaloa, some of
the most grotesque and ruthless and brutal organizations in the
world. You, as Mayor of a sanctuary city, have been virtually
giving favors to illegal aliens. Apparently, you support an
enormous amount of taxpayer resources going to them as well,
but you yourself have also received a lot of gifts. And for
those of you who do not know, Mayor Johnson has a secret gift
room that is not given access to the public or for access to
the Office of Inspector General. I would like to ask you a
couple questions about that. Do you know everyone who has given
you a gift since you became Mayor?
Mr. Johnson. The city of Chicago has had a policy for 40
years----
Mr. Gill. That is a yes or no question.
Mr. Johnson [continuing]. Where there are individuals that
would like to give gifts to the city of Chicago.
Mr. Gill. No, I am reclaiming my time. I am going to take
that as a ``no.''
Mr. Johnson. And we do not accept those gifts. We receive
them on behalf----
Mr. Gill. When did you become Mayor? No, I am going to
reclaim my time here.
Mr. Johnson [continuing]. Of the city of Chicago.
Mr. Gill. You are not going to filibuster here. When did
you become Mayor?
Mr. Johnson. I was elected Mayor of the city of Chicago in
April 2023, and I was sworn in----
Mr. Gill. Got it. On June 12----
Mr. Johnson [continuing]. May 15 of 2023.
Mr. Gill. On June 12, 2023, you received Hugo Boss
cufflinks and a personalized Mont Blanc pen. Do you know who
gave you those?
Mr. Johnson. So, I did not receive those personally. The
city of Chicago received them----
Mr. Gill. You received those on behalf of----
Mr. Johnson. That is right, on behalf of the city of
Chicago. As every mayor----
Mr. Gill. No, I understand the difference.
Mr. Johnson [continuing]. In the history of----
Mr. Gill. Do you know who----
Mr. Johnson [continuing]. Chicago who has been provided
gifts
Mr. Gill. Do you know who gave those to the city of
Chicago?
Mr. Johnson [continuing]. To the city of Chicago.
Mr. Gill. Do you know who gave those to the city of
Chicago?
Mr. Johnson. So, again, on behalf of the city of Chicago,
there are gifts----
Mr. Gill. It is a yes or no question.
Mr. Johnson. But I do not accept. Those are not my personal
gifts.
Mr. Gill. So, you do not know?
Mr. Johnson. Those are the gifts of the city of Chicago.
Mr. Gill. On March 18, 2024----
Mr. Johnson. And that is why you are aware that they exist
because they are within the law.
Mr. Gill. I am reclaiming my time here, sir. On March 18,
2024, you received a Gucci tote bag. Do you know who gave the
city of Chicago that?
Mr. Johnson. Again, I was here and I was invited to
respond----
Mr. Gill. I will also take that as a ``no.''
Mr. Johnson [continuing]. To the questions around----
Mr. Gill. On March 19, 2024----
Mr. Johnson [continuing]. Welcoming City. I am happy to
answer any of those questions.
Mr. Gill [continuing]. The city of Chicago received a
Givenchy bag, a Kate Spade purse, and Carrucci shoes. Do you
know who gave the city of Chicago those?
Mr. Johnson. Again, I was brought here----
Mr. Gill. I will take that as ``no.'' I am reclaiming my
time. Yes, sir, I am reclaiming my time.
Mr. Johnson [continuing]. To respond on behalf of the city
of Chicago on what a Welcoming City experience is.
Mr. Gill. This raises serious ethical concerns. You are
providing an enormous amount of aid to illegal aliens, aiding
and abetting criminals who have come into our country
illegally, and you, yourself, are receiving an enormous amount
of gifts, and you will not even tell us who they are coming
from.
Mr. Connolly. Mr. Chairman, time is up.
Mr. Gill. That raises serious ethical concern.
Mr. Connolly. We have a 5-minute rule.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has----
Mr. Gill. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask for unanimous
consent to enter into the record the city of Chicago Office of
Inspector General Advisory Concerning Gifts Accepted on Behalf
of the City.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Gill. Thank you.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Ms. Tlaib for 5
minutes.
Ms. Tlaib. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mayor Adams, since we are
on this conversation around oversight and some mis-claims here
about corruption, I mean, do you agree, Mr. Mayor Adams?
Mr. Adams. Yes, I hear you, Congresswoman.
Ms. Tlaib. Oh, OK. You were not looking at me. That is why.
It is OK. I will speak louder if you want. Did you agree to a
quid pro quo deal to enforce the Trump Administration's cruel
immigration policy in exchange for protection from the Federal
corruption charges against you? And you are under oath, just as
a reminder.
Mr. Adams. Congresswoman, there was no agreement, there was
no quid pro quo, and I have done nothing wrong.
Ms. Tlaib. So, help me out here, though. So, the Trump
official, Tom Homan, we all know who he is. He said, quote,--I
am quoting him--``If he does not come through, I will be in his
office up his butt.'' Sorry, Chairman. ``Saying, `Where the
hell is the agreement we came to?' '' You are accusing the
Trump Administration for lying? Did they lie? They are lying
then.
Mr. Adams. Mr. Homan and I both agreed we will fight
dangerous criminals, and we never had any conversation about my
case.
Ms. Tlaib. OK. So, Mayor Johnson and Johnston and--I am
sorry, I cannot get the----
Mr. Johnston. You can just call us Chicago and Denver.
Ms. Tlaib. There you go. This is really important. You
know, as a child of immigrants, and I think many of my
colleagues on that side of the aisle have beautiful, diverse
communities as well. And one of the things that I know happens
when we try to have local law enforcement and local city
officials, I mean, they even want folks that work for our city
treasury asking people for immigration status. That is what
they would prefer. You know, is that racial profiling? I mean,
what do you do? Like, you wait for somebody to come, they have
an accent, maybe they wear a hijab, maybe they look a certain
way. That is what they want you to do.
That is what they are asking you to do, by the way. They
want you all to basically do the job of what the Federal
Government should be doing in regard to passing really
comprehensive immigration reform so families are not separated
because right now, all they want to do is continue to talk
about enforcement. Guess what? In the last 20 years, it did not
work, did it? It is not working. So, one by one, if you can
talk about that because I know my mother, who has been here for
over 50 years, is carrying her U.S. passport for the first time
in her life, and she is not traveling nowhere out of the
country. But she is carrying it because she knows her beautiful
accent--it is beautiful, I love it--and just so fearful of
being stopped and being asked her immigration status. She knows
she will be racially profiled, and she already feels unsafe in
a community she lived in for over 50 years.
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, Congresswoman. I would just agree.
We do not think it is relevant to know someone's status when
they come into a public library to check out a book, or if they
come to the hospital for service, or if they come to register
their child for school. The Constitution says you are entitled
to an education. Our job is to provide it. So, we think that is
unnecessary and it just scares people away.
Mr. Tlaib. Yes. Mayor?
Mr. Johnson. Yes. Allowing local law enforcement in the
city of Chicago to focus on city priorities as well as making
sure that there is trust between our immigrant communities and
all of our communities that----
Ms. Tlaib. Yes. I have worked on different violence cases
as a former immigration attorney.
Mr. Johnson. Absolutely.
Ms. Tlaib. I am telling you this is deadly for women being
abused. Deadly.
Mr. Johnson. It certainly engenders trust, and that is how
we have----
Ms. Tlaib. Absolutely.
Mr. Johnson [continuing]. Driven crime down in the city of
Chicago because of that trust.
Ms. Tlaib. Mayor Wu?
Ms. Wu. Thank you, Congresswoman. Boston is proud to be the
safest major city in the country, and we do not ask about
immigration status when providing city services. We also are
clear to all our residents that we do not care about
immigration status when we hold people accountable for doing
harm in the community as well.
Ms. Tlaib. Yes, because when I hear ``sanctuary city,'' I
hear ``anti-racial profiling.'' I really do. I hear, like, OK,
we are not here in the business of trying to enforce broken
immigration laws that are inhumane, completely immoral right
now. That is what I hear. And as a former immigration attorney,
when I hear the story in Denver, and trust me, ICE is there
waiting to pick them up. They sent six of them. Six of them
could not take this guy that they are supposed to pick up does
not make any sense to me because they are there. They are
pretending they do not know that as a fact.
But one of the things that bothers me about all of this is
the executive order of rescinding the sensitive locations. Why
this is important? They basically want to do immigration
enforcement and racial profiling and immigration enforcement
that is race based. I am at the Canadian border in Detroit. Do
you know the majority of people coming down undocumented is
Canadian? But guess what? It still is the Brown folks that are
overwhelming--ACLU did a study--is overwhelmingly the ones
being targeted, detained, and deported.
And so, for me, the sensitive locations is hospitals,
schools, funerals. This was all a policy in place to protect us
from having our communities overpoliced and militarized. Can
you talk about the impact of that? And I have 22 more seconds
because he went over----
Mr. Fallon. No, because his time was----
Ms. Tlaib. He went over 22 more seconds.
Mr. Fallon. He spoke over him. That was not true.
Ms. Tlaib. No, I did not. Chairman, I never spoke over him.
Mr. Fallon. No, not you. The Mayor spoke over Brandon.
Ms. Tlaib. It does not matter. He went over 22 seconds.
Chairman Comer. Go ahead and ask your question.
Ms. Tlaib. I did want them to answer the question about the
sensitive locations because this is something we all should be
scared of, because pastors are calling me because they are
talking about churches possibly having ICE agents show up at
churches.
Mr. Johnston. I can just say, Congresswoman, our fastest-
growing church in Denver went from 700 folks in the parishion
to 5 after that announcement.
Chairman Comer. All right. Very good.
Ms. Tlaib. Thank you. Thank you.
Chairman Comer. Yes. The Chair recognizes Mr. Fallon from
Texas.
Mr. Fallon. All right. Forty-three seconds. That is a deal.
All right. Mr. Chairman, thank you. Coming into this very
important hearing, I suspected that Democrats would claim
illegal immigrants pose no danger and would frame them as a
sympathetic victim class and completely glaze over the
tremendous financial burden that mass unlawful migration places
on the shoulders of the American taxpayers. And furthermore,
they would completely ignore the grave dangers that violent
criminal illegals pose to all Americans, the Democrats would
use spin and deflection and woke, wonderment, and delusion, and
some would even blatantly lie, and as they so often do, the
left did not disappoint.
The first claim that we heard was there were ICE agents
ripping adorable children off adorable school busses. It was a
myth and it never happened. And what was the source of this
Democratic claim? One letter written by one superintendent in a
country of 13,000 school districts, and that letter said that
this may happen. Well, I may start a business with flying
monkeys delivering new fruit salads. I may. But it never
happened. In the case in point, it was Alice ISD. And Mr.
Chairman, there was another letter that Alice ISD sent, and I
am going to quote it. It said, ``We have not had any Customs
and Border Patrol enter or board busses, nor do we have any
knowledge of it happening here or in any other school
district.'' It was a spin, it was deflection, and it was a lie.
Now, the most important thing that any elected official
should focus on is to keep our citizens safe. There is no
greater calling. Mayor Johnson, is Chicago a safe city?
Mr. Johnson. We are a safer city since I have been in
office. Crime is down----
Mr. Fallon. A safer city. OK. Sir----
Mr. Johnson. Crime is down----
Mr. Fallon. Sir, do you know that----
Mr. Johnson [continuing]. Over 20 percent just this year
alone.
Mr. Fallon. Sir, no. Mr. Chairman, I reclaim my time. You
are not going to overtalk me. Brandon, he was very nice and he
is a freshman. I am not going to do that. I find it interesting
that you say Chicago is safe. You have a higher murder rate
than Haiti, and the Biden Administration put up a travel
advisory saying to Americans do not go to Haiti. I hope that
the Trump Administration puts up a travel advisory saying do
not go to Chicago. In fact, Haiti has a murder rate of 18.02
percent. Chicago has a murder rate of 18.26 percent. I can see
why, sir, you have a 14-percent approval rating. Mayor Wu, you
are a Democrat, yes?
Ms. Wu. Yes.
Mr. Fallon. OK. You supported the Biden-Harris
Administration politically?
Ms. Wu. I did.
Mr. Fallon. Yes. OK. Do you think that they took border
security seriously?
Ms. Wu. I think Washington failed on immigration and
continues to do so.
Mr. Fallon. Let me ask that again. Did you think the Biden
Administration took border security seriously?
Ms. Wu. I think Washington failed----
Mr. Fallon. It is a yes or no. It is not a trick question,
mayor.
Ms. Wu. I think there is responsibility across this
entire----
Mr. Fallon. Come on. We need to get out of here. Yes or no,
did Biden-Harris do a good job? You were supporting Kamala
Harris, so apparently, you must have thought she was OK on it.
Ms. Wu. Washington has failed.
Mr. Fallon. OK. So, you are not going to answer.
Ms. Wu. And we are cleaning up the pieces at city----
Mr. Fallon. Well, here is the thing. We can deal with
delusion--no, Mayor, I am going to reclaim my time. We can deal
with delusion or we can deal with data, so let us talk about
some data. I find this interesting. Under the 12 years that
Barack Obama and Donald Trump were President, there were
460,000 illegal encounters annually on average. Under Joe
Biden, it was 2,641,000. It was 600-percent worse. Mayor Wu,
you would agree with me, I hope, on this, that Vladimir Putin
is a bad hombre and he rules over an authoritarian regime, yes?
Ms. Wu. Yes.
Mr. Fallon. Bipartisan agreement. Wonderful. Under
President Trump's first Administration, 98 Russian nationals
were apprehended on the Southern border entering the country
illegally. Under Joe Biden, it was 127,415, 130,000-percent
worse. Terror Watch List went from 11 under President Trump to
382.
[Phone audible.]
Mr. Fallon. That might be one of them calling right now.
February 2024, 190,000 illegal immigrants were apprehended.
This past month, it was only 8,000, a 96-percent reduction.
Now, the common theme that we heard from a lot of Oversight
Democrats is a bold-faced lie that illegal immigrants, or I
should say, immigrants are less likely to commit crimes. What
they are doing is they are infusing legal immigrants with
illegal. When you bifurcate, when you separate them, yes, legal
immigrants are less likely to commit crimes, but illegal
immigrants are more likely to. Non-U.S. citizens account for 7
percent of the U.S. population, yet account for 15 percent of
the Federal arrests and prosecutions according to the Justice
Department.
The Federation for American Immigration Reform found that
if you are an illegal immigrant, you were two times more likely
to be incarcerated in California, in New York, and five times
more likely in Arizona. And in my home state, in June 2011 to
January 2024, Mr. Chairman, there were 428,000 criminal aliens
booked in Texas jails. Two hundred ninety-nine thousand of them
were illegal immigrants charged with murder, rape, sexual
assault, kidnapping, assault, et al., 187,000 convictions. So,
it is an outrageous claim to say----
Mr. Connolly. Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Fallon [continuing]. That when we secured the----
Mr. Connolly. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Fallon. No. Mr. Chairman, 42 seconds left.
Mr. Connolly. No, you do not.
Mr. Fallon. Yes, I do because she went over 42 seconds.
Spare me.
Mr. Connolly. Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Fallon. Mr. Chairman, I got 20 seconds left, and I will
wrap it, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Comer. He is wrapping his question up.
Mr. Fallon. It is an outrageous claim to say that securing
the border and enforcing our immigration laws does not make
Americans safer because it does. And if you do not agree with
that, I would encourage you to talk to Laken Riley's family or
Jocelyn Nungaray's family. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Comer. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Ms.
Stansbury from New Mexico.
Ms. Stansbury. All right. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I
always think that we should sage this room after these hearings
because we hear a lot of crazy stuff in here, but let me start
out by saying, mayors, welcome to our Committee. Thank you for
serving your cities and your people. I have to say, as also an
elected official, you have the hardest job in America. There is
no job harder than being a mayor of a major city, so thank you
for serving your constituents.
And I want to take this opportunity to especially
acknowledge Mayor Wu because not only are you the first woman
to ever serve the city of Boston, if you all have not been
watching, she is also the mother of a newborn who is here with
her. She has a 7-week-old baby, and she showed up to testify
and be yelled at by our colleagues for 4 hours. So, I say to
you, Mayor Wu, may your daughter grow up to be a fierce leader
like you.
Ms. Wu. Thank you.
Ms. Stansbury. Now, I want to reject the fundamental
premise of this hearing because what this entire effort is
about is intimidating state and local officials, attacking law-
abiding immigrant families, and spending millions of dollars of
taxpayer dollars both in the Administration and in Congress to
make ads that are complete smoke and mirrors trying to say that
Donald Trump has somehow secured America's safety.
What they are doing is not making America safer. In fact,
it is a total and complete lie because Donald Trump has failed
to actually even secure the border. He has failed to stop
illicit drugs, like fentanyl, from crossing the border. He has
failed to secure sufficient staffing and technology to stop
human trafficking and illicit drugs from crossing the border.
He has failed to support local law enforcement and behavioral
health programs to address the issues that are affecting our
communities. And he has failed to even execute on the most
basic thing that he said he would do, which was to pass
immigration reform when he got into office.
Here we are, Donald Trump. Where is your immigration bill?
Oh, wait, you do not have one. That is right, because none of
this is actually about making America safer. In fact, all of
this is making America weaker. He is dismantling our Federal
law enforcements that would actually go after cartels and drug
traffickers. Over the last 6 weeks, Donald Trump has taken out
the most senior FBI officials and the officials in our U.S.
Attorney's offices that were actually prosecuting the cases
against the drug cartels. Donald Trump took out the law
enforcement that were prosecuting those cases.
So, let us be real about that. He froze Federal law
enforcement funds all across the country. I have tribes in my
district that still have not had their DOJ grants reinstated.
Let us be real about what is going on here. He has frozen funds
to refugee resettlement and other immigrant groups,
permanently, who have outstanding receipts. There are refugees
and asylees that had waited decades to get to this country from
war-torn parts of the world, and they literally had their
flights canceled the last 2 weeks, while Donald Trump is
sitting in the Oval Office and offering millionaire oligarchs a
free ride into America with his gold visa program.
Is this really about making America safe again? Is that
really what he is about, is that really what my colleagues
across the aisle are about, because what I can tell you, as a
representative from a great city, the city of Albuquerque, a
border state, is that we know what makes our community safer.
It means we stop drugs from coming into our country and our
communities. It means that we support and we fund our law
enforcement. It means that we fund our behavioral health
system. It means that we support our mayors, our tribal
leaders, and our state officials. It means that we invest in
them. It does not mean that we drag them in front of Congress
for 4 hours, we yell at them, we tell them we are going to give
them criminal referrals.
The DOJ is intimidating our mayors, and my colleagues
across the aisle are producing TV ads to try to pretend that
they are making this country safe again. It is total bullshit,
absolute bullshit. They are not making America safer again, and
what they are doing is terrorizing immigrant families. That is
what they are doing--parents who are afraid to send their kids
to school, parents who are afraid that they will not come home
again, kids who are afraid to leave their houses, refugees who
have waited for years to come into this country. And our mayors
are sitting here enduring this ridiculous, ridiculous hearing
as they have been threatened in front of the American people.
And so, I will say in the words of my sister in the front
row who brought forward the words of one of our faith leaders
just a few days ago on the House Floor, I hope that my
colleagues across the aisle, who I can tell most of whom come
from immigrant stock, will have the same mercy that our
ancestors had shown to them by this country so that you could
sit here and be a Congress person.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady's time has expired. We are
going to----
Ms. Crockett. Mr. Chairman, I would ask unanimous consent.
Chairman Comer. Ms. Crockett?
Ms. Crockett. From The Economist, ``How Boston Became the
Safest Big City in America. Murder is Declining Across the
Country, but Boston Has Led the Way.'' And then I have one more
UC request. It is from InsightCrime.org: Gang violence in Haiti
continued to surge in 2024 following a trend that began after
the assassination of president in 2021. The country reported a
record number of homicides in 2024 with over 7,000 murders for
a rate of 62 percent, up from 40.9 percent in 2023.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
At the request of the witnesses, we are going to do one
more questioner. It will be Mr. Sessions from Texas, then the
Committee will take a 15-minute break. Last question before the
break, at the request of the witnesses, will be Mr. Sessions
from Texas.
Mr. Sessions. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. To the
panelists, thank you for taking time to be here. I hasten to
say that I am probably not going to yell at you. I will not
live up to the things that we have been accused of today, but I
will say that I want to defend some actions that are being
taken.
I remember a few years ago when Boston had two illegal
aliens. They were known as criminal aliens, but they were known
as on the Watch List. They created a bomb that went off at the
Boston Marathon, only killed a couple of people, but caused
huge disruption. And it brought to light that the
administration at the time and prior administration had allowed
people who were on watch lists that we understood were
terrorism, criminal, and we were allowing them in the country.
We marched forward as we moved about the rule of law being
ignored.
The United States of America allows 1 million people to go
through our process, the largest amount anywhere in the world--
1 million people--and they go through a process. And I spoke at
one of these ceremonies, naturalization ceremonies, last May,
and I spoke to the people that were there, and they all
unequivocally stated thank you to the United States of America.
But they learned what they were entering, what they were
expected to do, that their customs from where they came from,
some could be kept, but the things which did not correspond to
American law now needed to be followed. That they were going to
become American citizens, not where they came from, but they
wanted to be Americans, and they had to follow those rules and
regulations or laws. That we were very open to them being here
and that they could legally perform the duties that they
wanted.
What has caused this mismatch is more than just the Boston
bomber or people being killed, but, rather, the public interest
in looking at the charade that it caused all across this
country, in particular, in larger cities, Chicago, yes, New
York City, yes, other cities around the United States where
people felt not only threatened, but it was activity that was
seen as unbecoming to people who should be where they were and
giving respect and thanks to a group of people who were
allowing them to be here, i.e., a city that was not going to
arrest them.
But you see, what we really understood is, if you were here
illegally, they were not going to arrest you even for a crime.
They might have arrested someone who was a citizen and put them
behind bars, but unless they really created a heinous
circumstance, they were not going to be arrested, and so this
created an aura around the United States that the American
people understood. And that is one of the reasons why you saw
the American people not only vote with their hands, but vote
with their emotions about the need to bring back not just law
and order, not just rule of law, but the ability that we had as
American people to rethink the entire issue.
And I do understand you think that this is all broken in
Washington, DC. because you disagree with it. But what we have
been allowing is the next President, whether it be Barack
Obama, whether it be George W. Bush, whether it be Donald
Trump, whether it be Joe Biden, to insist upon their own way
instead of the law. The laws have been misguided, they have
been misused, and they are taken advantage of. I think what we
are trying to do today is to hear from you, not as ``we are
accused,'' but rather thoughtful people to hear you talk about
your cities, the things which you encounter, and the things
which you think are right.
And by and large--and I have been in and out of this
Committee today--but we, by and large, heard it is not less
safe, it is more safe because of what we do, and yet, it comes
at a cost and a price, and it creates circumstances. So, I want
to thank you for being here. I want you to remember that not
everybody yelled and screamed at you. Some people actually
showed up to listen, and that is what I did today. And I want
to thank each of you because your modeling that you have been
doing is something that we do need to pay attention to. Mr.
Chairman, I yield back my time.
Chairman Comer. Very good. The Committee will take a 20-
minute break. Pursuant to the previous order, the Chair
declares the Committee in recess for 20 minutes.
[Recess.]
Chairman Comer. The Committee will come back to order.
The Chair recognizes Ms. Crockett from Texas.
Ms. Crockett. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair, and thank you
so much to our mayors that are here. And I really quickly want
to touch on something because I know that many of you prepared
for today's hearing by making sure that you got a little bit of
information about immigrants and crime in your cities. Let me
ask each of the mayors, just yes or no, have any of you been
made aware of any immigrant that has had 34 felony convictions
that is still been able to roam around in your cities? Anyone?
Mr. Johnston. No, ma'am.
Ms. Crockett. Thirty four felony convictions----
Ms. Wu. No, Congresswoman.
Ms. Crockett [continuing]. From the immigrants. Anybody?
Mr. Adams. I am not aware.
Ms. Crockett. Oh, OK. OK. I am just curious because we are
so concerned about crime, and I know that my Republican
colleagues would never want anybody with 34 felony convictions
roaming around because that could be a danger to the community,
but I will move on.
The Republicans put more effort into producing their little
propaganda trailer for this hearing than they have into
reforming America's immigration system, and that is why we are
here today. In fact, Republicans are beating up on the vast
majority of you about what you are doing for your citizens, but
the last time I checked, you are actually showing up. You may
or may not be aware, but the NRCC just instructed Republicans
to stop their town hall meetings because their constituents
were showing up and telling them to ``do your jobs.''
If I had to sum up some of what you have said thus far
today, I would sum it up as you have been trying to tell them
as politely as you can to do their jobs. In fact, we know that
they have not done their jobs, and so they are trying to force
you to do it for them by turning your local law enforcement
officers into ICE agents. They have this fake outrage about how
immigrants are stealing resources and jobs from Americans when
residents of Boston, Chicago, New York City, and Denver are
subsidizing public services in their districts and their states
because the Republicans refuse to ensure that their
constituents earn a livable wage. Look, they do not have a plan
to fix immigration in America because they do not want to. Mass
deportation is not a plan, arresting kids in schools or
worshipers in church is not a plan, but there are important
points to discuss as it relates to immigration in America.
So, Mr. Bier, in January, you testified before the
Judiciary Subcommittee on Immigration, Integrity, Security, and
Enforcement. During that hearing, we played a little game
called rhetoric or reality. Do you remember that?
Mr. Bier. I remember, yes.
Ms. Crockett. OK. Well, let us go ahead for round two, why
don't we? Rhetoric or reality: immigrants are a burden to the
American taxpayers because they deplete our Federal resources?
Mr. Bier. That would be rhetoric.
Ms. Crockett. Correct. In fact, the Congressional Budget
Office estimates that immigrants will lower U.S. deficits by a
cumulative $1 trillion and increase the U.S. economy size by
nearly $9 trillion over 10 years. Is that correct?
Mr. Bier. That is correct.
Ms. Crockett. In 2023, 47 million immigrants paid nearly
$652 billion in taxes, $58.1 billion in taxes alone in Texas.
Rhetoric or reality: during his first Administration, Trump
improved enforcement of U.S. immigration laws?
Mr. Bier. He did not.
Ms. Crockett. In fact, President Trump closed almost all
immigration courts for removal proceedings, cut prosecutions
for unauthorized entry by 87 percent, cut ICE removals to the
lowest level in the history of the Agency, and released 9,000
people with violent crime convictions back into our
communities. Is that correct?
Mr. Bier. That is right. Yes.
Ms. Crockett. So, rhetoric or reality: President Trump's
immigration policies make American communities safer?
Mr. Bier. No, they do not make communities safer.
Ms. Crockett. In fact, nearly a hundred thousand
unauthorized immigrants have obtained legal status through
their cooperation with law enforcement. And local law
enforcement agencies have more than 300,000 pending requests
for immigrants seeking legal status based upon their
cooperation with law enforcement according to the Department of
Homeland Security. Is that correct?
Mr. Bier. That is right. Immigrants work with law
enforcement to stop and solve crimes.
Ms. Crockett. Thank you. That was one of my rhetoric or
reality questions. Sorry. The question was, immigrants without
legal status can help stop crime. That is correct, right?
Mr. Bier. Yes, that is correct.
Ms. Crockett. All right. And, Mr. Bier, isn't it true that
Republicans are threatening to illegally strip cities of law
enforcement grants intended for local policing and public
safety if they do not go along with Trump's immigration agenda?
Mr. Bier. That is right. They want to redistribute the
fiscal burden onto the Democratic cities and away from the
Republican ones.
Ms. Crockett. Which brings me to my next point. Mayor
Adams, do you believe that President Trump is weaponizing the
Department of Justice against local governments like New York
City?
Mr. Adams. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman, and
as I indicated previously, this case is in front of Judge Ho,
and I am going to allow the judicial process to go forward.
Ms. Crockett. Well, let me ask it a different way. There
was a quote from Mr.----
Chairman Comer. Uh----
Ms. Crockett. Well, he had to get advice. So, can I just
get a----
Chairman Comer. What is that?
Ms. Crockett. He was getting advice, so can I get a little
bit of time? I did not interrupt why he was getting advice.
Chairman Comer. Go ahead.
Ms. Crockett. OK. This is the last one. There was a quote
from Mr. Homan, I believe, where he said he will be in your
office and up your butt if there was a problem with whatever
agreement. We do not know what it was. My question to you--I
know you have been asked about it a couple of times today--is
was he lying when he said that you made an agreement that would
cause him to beat up your butt if you fail to uphold your end
of it?
Chairman Comer. And the gentlelady's time has expired, but
if the Mayor will try to, he can.
Mr. Adams. Congresswoman, I answered that question, and it
appears as though we are asking the same questions over and
over and over again. My comments are not going to change. No
quid pro quo. No agreement. I did nothing wrong.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Langworthy from
New York.
Mr. Langworthy. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank
you, Mayors, for being here. You all represent cities that
should be beacons of opportunities for young professionals,
entrepreneurs, and hardworking Americans that want to make it
in this world, not the laughingstocks that they have become in
many ways. New York was once hailed as the capital of the
world, Boston was admired for its founding role in America,
Chicago was the gateway to the West and the icon of the Great
Lakes, and Denver was admired for its natural beauty. Now all
these cities are seen as a place where illegal immigrants,
violent criminals, and gang members thrive, breaking our laws
and spreading fear throughout our communities.
Let us be clear. Sanctuary policies have not just failed.
They have made our cities less safe and less welcoming to those
who truly want to contribute to our communities. Here is a
perfect example. Laken Riley's murderer was arrested in New
York City on charges of detaining a minor. He was released due
to New York State's sanctuary status. He was then allowed to go
on to Georgia, where he murdered Laken in cold blood. Last
night, in my district, 400 miles from New York City, two
members of Tren de Aragua gang were arrested for an ATM
jackpotting scheme that stole more than $100,000. The suspects
were also wanted for similar crimes throughout the state of New
York and in your states, Mayor Johnson and Mayor Wu, for
hundreds of thousands of dollars. Now, God only knows what else
these dangerous gang members are responsible for. Buffalo ICE
recently arrested an illegal from Peru who had murdered 23
people and had the victims faces tattooed on his body. He was
allowed to evade law enforcement for a long time due to New
York State green light law that protected him and shielded DMV
data from Federal law enforcement officials.
There is no such thing as a victimless crime. Every crime
has a victim, and these victims, they do not have a sanctuary.
They have to live with the pain and the trauma of something
being taken from them--their safety, their security, their
property--and to add insult to injury, the witnesses before us
have protected the perpetrators.
Mayor Wu, the other day, you stunningly expressed sympathy
for the man responsible for the knife attack, not the brave
officer who stopped him. Where is the sympathy for the men and
women in law enforcement trying to keep us safe?
Ms. Wu. Congressman, check your facts.
Mr. Langworthy. It is my time.
Ms. Wu. Check your facts. Watch the video.
Mr. Langworthy. It is my time.
Ms. Wu. I did not express sympathy for that individual, but
for their family.
Mr. Langworthy. Where is the sympathy for the victims?
Ms. Wu. And any individual whose life is lost----
Mr. Langworthy. I have not asked you a question.
Ms. Wu [continuing]. Is a tragic----
Mr. Langworthy. It is appalling to me that we even have to
ask for sympathy for victims instead of violent criminals, but
here we are, and to all the mayors before us, hindsight being
20/20 is a blessing and a curse. You cannot go back in time,
but it should give you clarity for the future. Laken's
murderer, Jose Ibarra, had demonstrated he was a danger to
society. He should have been detained by ICE. I want to ask
each of you, yes or no, do you agree that someone who
demonstrates a willingness to harm society should be detained
by immigration officials? Mayor Adams, yes or no?
Mr. Adams. Within the confine and restrictions of the law,
yes, I do.
Mr. Langworthy. OK. Mayor Johnston?
Mr. Johnston. If someone has committed a crime, yes, they
should be detained, and we would help them.
Mr. Johnson. Every violent criminal should be held
accountable, and that is why crime is down in the city of
Chicago because we are doing just that.
Mr. Langworthy. Mayor Wu?
Ms. Wu. If you commit crimes against the people of Boston,
you will be prosecuted.
Mr. Langworthy. Another yes or no question: has anything
that has happened in this country in the last 3 years given you
reason to consider removing sanctuary city status from your
communities? Mayor Adams?
Mr. Adams. I am clear that what we do is prevent some of
these crimes from taking place.
Mr. Langworthy. Mayor Johnson?
Mr. Johnston. We think the system that we have works, and
we will keep it.
Mr. Johnson. Violent crime is down in Chicago because of
Welcoming City ordinance.
Mr. Langworthy. Have you considered removing sanctuary city
status?
Mr. Johnson. Well, violent crime is down in the city of
Chicago under my leadership, and we are going to continue to do
what we have to do to ensure that that continues.
Mr. Langworthy. Mayor Wu?
Ms. Wu. We are the safest major city in the country in part
because people trust that they can call 9-1-1 and help police
solve crimes.
Mr. Langworthy. Have you considered removing sanctuary city
status?
Ms. Wu. We are going to continue to keep our policies in
place that have been working for the people of Boston.
Mr. Langworthy. I think you have answered the question. The
American people are fed up with the policies that protect
criminals, waste taxpayer dollars, and prioritize illegal
immigrants over the safety and well-being of hardworking
citizens. Your cities, once shining beacons of opportunity,
have now become a symbol of failure and leadership. The time
for excuses is over, and the American people demand that you
take responsibility, abandon these reckless policies, and start
putting the safety of your constituents first. And with that, I
yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back.
Ms. Crockett. Mr. Chair, I have a unanimous consent. From
USAFacts.org----
Chairman Comer. Who said that?
Ms. Crockett. ``Which states rely the most on Federal
aid?'' The No. 3 highest proportion of Federal funding that a
state relies upon is the state of Kentucky, your state, Mr.
Chair.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
The Chair recognizes Ms. Simon from California.
Ms. Simon. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Ranking
Member. Mayors, it is really a pleasure to hear from you today,
and Ms. Wu, I was able to meet your sleeping daughter outside,
and as a mother myself, I know the care that you are taking not
only for your own family, but for our communities. But to all
of you, thank you for being here today for so many hours.
Just quickly. You know, when I came to Congress, I was
under the impression that both Members of Congress and folks
who are in the Federal Government take heed to the history of
this country. I would love for Members of Congress and on this
Committee to contact the Congressional Research Service and
look at the ordinances and the authors who created ordinances
of sundown towns. That animus is almost mirrored with the
conversations today about our immigrant communities. So, when
you get in your Uber and when you talk to your nurse and when
you go home, I want you to look in the face of the folks that
you are disrespecting today.
The real crisis, to me and many who study this issue for a
career, it is a broken asylum system. Right now, 3.7 million
folks are in this country waiting, and they have waited years.
These folks fleeing violence for years are waiting for an
immigration system that works. That is not the duty of these
mayors. It is our job. It is the Federal Government's job to
create an asylum system that honestly purports what we say on
the base of the Statue of Liberty, and let us get that work
done. Do not blame our mayors who are supporting young people
and elders and bringing in Federal dollars for health care. I
want to yield my time to the gentlelady from New York, Ms.
Cortez.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. I thank the Congresswoman. I would like
to start with some questions prior to my recognized questions.
Mayor Adams, on January 31 of 2025, your attorneys met with
Federal prosecutors regarding the charges of bribery, campaign
finance fraud, and conspiracy against you. Were you aware of
this meeting prior to its occurrence?
Mr. Adams. Congresswoman----
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Microphone, please.
Mr. Adams. I am sorry. As I stated to your colleagues, and
I am going to continue to state because we are asking the same
question over and over again----
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. This is not a question----
Mr. Adams [continuing]. This case is in front of Judge Ho,
and out of deference to our criminal justice----
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. I understand. Mayor Adams----
Mr. Adams [continuing]. Process, I am going to defer this--
--
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Mayor Adams, as your counsel, I am sure,
will inform you, the only permissible way to refuse to answer a
question during a congressional proceeding such as this is by
pleading the Fifth Amendment. Deference to the judge is not a
permissible excuse for not answering questions during a
congressional hearing, or is it your intention to plead the
Fifth today?
Mr. Adams. Councilwoman [sic], you said the only way that
you cannot answer a question is to plead the Fifth. I am
answering your question. I am answering your question directly
that------
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. You are not, Mayor Adams.
Mr. Adams. OK. I believe I am.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. I will ask it again. Were you aware of
the meeting between your attorneys and Federal prosecutors on
January 31? Answering this question is a yes or no.
Mr. Adams. And I am going to answer it again. Out of
deference to Judge Ho with this case in court now----
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. That is not an answer, Mayor Adams.
Mr. Adams [continuing]. He is going to deal with the
outcome of the case.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Mayor Adams, is it your intention to not
comply with these questions?
Mr. Adams. As I stated, I am answering your questions. And
what you are doing, let us be clear on, you are asking me about
communications between my attorney and I, and I do not think--
--
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. OK. I will move on to the next question.
If it is about----
Mr. Adams [continuing]. That it is inappropriate to be
asking a question between the attorney and I because we are in
a country of law and order.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. I understand. So, Mayor Adams----
Mr. Adams. And your relationship, the communications with
your attorney should be respected.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Who is your attorney?
Mr. Adams. Alex Spiro.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Alex Spiro. Thank you. Now, Mayor Adams,
have your attorneys ever met with city officials? You know, I
am not asking about your conversations with your attorneys.
Have your attorneys met with New York city officials?
Mr. Adams. Any communication or activity between my
attorney and I is between my attorney and I.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. It is a yes or no. Have your personal
attorneys----
Mr. Adams. You can reach out to----
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez [continuing]. Met with New York city
officials?
Mr. Adams [continuing]. Alex Spiro, my attorney, to deal
with those communications.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Mayor Adams, in this meeting, did anyone
representing you, including perhaps Mr. Spiro, agree or allude
to any arrangement with the Trump Administration that would
involve changing city policies in exchange to reconsideration
of the charges brought against you?
Mr. Adams. You say in this meeting? Can you be clear on
what meeting?
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. In the January 31 meeting.
Mr. Adams. Again, there was never any agreement, never any
quid pro quo----
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. That is not what I am asking.
Mr. Adams [continuing]. And I did nothing wrong. Never any
agreement, never any quid pro quo----
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Was there an allusion to----
Mr. Adams [continuing]. And nothing that I have done wrong.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez [continuing]. A shift in New York City
policy?
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady's time has expired, and I
just want to remind everybody Mayor Adams is here voluntarily,
and we appreciate that. The topic of the hearing is about our
illegal alien problem and the drain on the cities and what the
solution is. So, the Chair now recognizes Mr. McGuire from
Virginia.
Mr. McGuire. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for convening this
important hearing, and the American people deserve answers on
the disastrous policies of sanctuary cities. As a veteran, as a
Navy SEAL, I hope what I am about to say is commonsense. If
somebody saved your life on the battlefield, you would not care
if they were pink or blue or male or female or Democrat,
Republican, or independent. We are all people. This is not a
race, religion, or creed thing. Our American people, we, the
people, are being robbed, raped, and killed by these criminals
that are coming across our border. My first question is just a
yes or no. Do you believe someone who breaks the law is a
criminal? Mayor Adams?
Mr. Adams. Yes, I do.
Mr. McGuire. Next?
Mr. Johnston. If you have broken criminal law, yes.
Mr. McGuire. Just a simple yes or no.
Mr. Johnson. Did you answer?
Mr. Johnston. Yes.
Mr. Johnson. OK. Could you repeat your question again?
Mr. McGuire. If you commit a crime, are you a criminal? Yes
or no?
Mr. Johnson. If you commit a crime, you should be held
accountable, absolutely.
Ms. Wu. I do not use that label. Depending on what it is,
like a speeding ticket, for example.
Mr. McGuire. I understand. Well, I got to tell you guys,
thank God we have President Trump in the White House; thank God
we have the border czar, Tom Homan; thank God we have Mike
Johnson as a Speaker; thank God we have leader Thune in the
Senate; and thank God we have Hegseth, Rubio, and everyone
else. Over the last 4 years, the American people have been
robbed, raped, and killed, and the left does not talk about
that. They want to say that people might be scared in their
homes. Well, what about the families whose members have been
killed and persecuted? The border has been cleaned up in just a
matter of weeks. Border crossings are down 97 percent in just a
matter of weeks, and over the last 4 years, we have been
getting lip service like we want to secure the border. Eighty
percent of Americans believe we should secure the Southern
border.
We are all elected leaders, and I assume you all sought
these positions to help your citizens improve the quality of
life in your city. It appears to me that left-wing activists
want to create wedges in our society and cause the mayors of
our great cities to ignore their oath of office and to support
rule of law. Each of you took an oath that included an oath to
support the Constitution of the United States, correct?
Mr. Johnson. Yes.
Mr. Adams. Yes.
Ms. Wu. Yes.
Mr. McGuire. Are you aware that------
Mr. Johnston. Correct.
Mr. McGuire [continuing]. Article VI, Section 2 makes laws
of the United States supreme? Notice the Supremacy Clause. Is
everybody aware of this?
Mr. Johnston. Yes.
Mr. Adams. Yes.
Mr. McGuire. I am shocked that you all as elected leaders
flaunt violating Federal laws as if you are running a political
campaign. We are a Nation of laws. We lose credibility as a
Nation when we disregard or ignore the law and the people die.
As of July 24, there are more than 660,000 illegal aliens from
criminal backgrounds roaming the United States. It is estimated
that the total added cost of illegal aliens nationwide is $150
billion per year. Since the start of 2023, the Federal
Government has spent more than $1.45 billion reimbursing local
jurisdictions and non-governmental organizations that provide
travel, shelter, and other service to illegal aliens.
What about homeless veterans that are living on the street?
What about Hurricane Helene victims that are still suffering in
North Carolina? What about those folks that are suffering from
the forest fires in Los Angeles? Chicago has spent over $639
million. Denver spent over $365 million. Boston is spending
potentially, well, about $1 billion annually, and New York City
estimates it could potentially spend $12 billion on illegal
aliens from 2022 through Fiscal Year 2025. If you were the
President and you found that your cities were spending billions
of dollars against the interest of your citizens in violation
of the Supremacy Clause, don't you think you would have cause
to consider withholding Federal funding, yes or no? No answer?
Mr. Johnston. No, because we have not violated any Federal
law.
Mr. McGuire. Yes, you are making the taxpayers of this
Nation foot your bill for your potential whims that you do not
agree with is wrong, and that is getting people killed. Mayor
Wu, in the Boston area alone, Tom Homan said there are at least
nine accused child rapists----
Ms. Wu. That is inaccurate.
Mr. McGuire [continuing]. Who local authorities----
Ms. Wu. That is false.
Mr. McGuire. It is my time.
Ms. Wu. That is false. I would like to see the facts on
that.
Mr. McGuire. Who local authorities refuse to turn over to
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
Ms. Wu. Again, put him under oath and ask the question
here.
Mr. McGuire. How could you do that to your citizens? It
sounds like you care more about your politics than the safety
of your citizens. Imagine the parents of those children abused
by someone you all released into society.
Ms. Wu. Congressman, our safety statistics----
Mr. McGuire. It could have been prevented.
Ms. Wu [continuing]. Are the lowest in the country, lower
than your district.
Mr. McGuire. In my district, a little girl aged 14 was
raped by an illegal alien. He was released from jail four times
because you guys on the left, you believe that criminals are
good, police are bad, and no one cares about the victims. This
horrific crime was avoidable, but it was sanctuary policies
like yours that allowed the offender to travel to the U.S. and
end up in my district, and with that, I yield.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields. The Chair recognizes
Mr. Min from California.
Mr. Min. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to take a moment just
to note that, once again, this Committee is failing to do its
job and actually exercise oversight in the way it should. My
phones are ringing off the hook with people who are angry as
hell about what they see as the rampant corruption of this
Administration, the illegal activities of Elon Musk and DOGE,
and the massive cuts to Medicaid that Republicans voted for
last week. Literally, not one person has called to ask about
the immigration enforcement priorities of the cities I
represent, let alone Boston or Chicago. This hearing is an
attempt to distract from the actual waste, fraud, corruption,
and abuse that is happening at unprecedented levels in this
country right now.
So, thank you to the witnesses. I want to start off with a
few simple yes/no questions for you all. First, please raise
your hand, for the mayors, if you are aware of any laws or
policies that prevent Federal authorities from enforcing
immigration in your city.
[No response.]
Mr. Min. OK. No hands are raised. Please raise your hand if
you are aware of any cities or states in America that have laws
or policies that prevent Federal authorities from enforcing
immigration law. Any cities or states?
[No response.]
Mr. Min. OK. I just want to note for the record again there
are no hands up, and as your answers make clear, this whole
sanctuary city ``debate'' is a sham. There is no place in
America, not one, that actually provides sanctuary from Federal
law, period. The real issue here is whether state and local
governments should spend scarce taxpayer dollars to help the
Federal Government enforce its immigration priorities, whether
local police should spend their time focused on their actual
jobs keeping our streets safe, apprehending violent criminals,
solving crimes, or whether they should be deputized to help
enforce Federal immigration laws. And a lot of cities and
states, including my state of California, have made the very
reasonable decision to say, hey, we want our teachers, nurses,
doctors, cops, firefighters to focus on their actual jobs and
not be dragged into this Republican war on immigrants. And let
us be clear. The Republican immigration policies being pushed
forward right now are counterproductive and will make us far
less safe, something several of our mayors pointed out in their
testimony.
Look, I support a 100 percent ban on all illegal border
crossings, but the reality is we already have over 10 million
people here in this country without proper immigration status,
many of whom have been here for decades. And if you have ICE
agents patrolling our courthouses, police stations, and
hospitals, that means that those undocumented immigrants are
not going to go anywhere, but they are going to stop reporting
crimes or seeking medical care, and this makes us all less safe
from the rapists and murderers out there.
Now, recently, my Orange County Sheriff, Don Barnes, a
staunch conservative, issued a statement outlining his position
on immigration enforcement, and here is what he stated, ``The
Orange County Sheriff's Department does not enforce Federal
immigration law. It is not part of our primary mission, and we
remain focused on violations of state and local laws. The
department will provide for your safety and respond to your
calls for service regardless of your immigration status. We do
not and never will ask the immigration status of victims,
witnesses, suspects, or those who call to report crimes. We
enforce state and local laws equally without bias and without
concern for your citizenship.''
Now, I actually think this is a pretty good summary of what
each of you are describing happens in your cities, a situation
where the Federal Government enforces immigration law while
states and local authorities enforce state and local laws, and
it makes a lot of sense. I do not know what my colleagues on
the other side think, but I do not want my police focused on
immigration status and asking people about that. I want them
focused on preventing violent crimes.
But with that, I want to shift gears to address Mayor Eric
Adams. Mayor, as has been well discussed in this Committee, you
are the first sitting mayor in modern New York City history to
be indicted while in office. Last year, of course, you were
charged with numerous felony counts for soliciting and
accepting bribes for nearly a decade from foreign nationals,
businessmen, and others, including illegal campaign
contributions and luxury travel. On February 10 of this year,
the Trump Justice Department instructed Federal prosecutors to
drop charges against you. This decision caused seven Federal
prosecutors, including a Trump appointee, to resign because
they believed this was such an enormous miscarriage of the rule
of law and law enforcement.
Now, as some of my colleagues have pointed out, this was
widely reported as a quid pro quo. I know you have denied that.
I know you are probably limited in what you can say. But a lot
of people out there, including a lot of people in New York City
that I know, believe that these charges were dropped in
exchange for a quid pro quo for your agreement to help the
Trump Administration enforce its immigration policies. So, my
question for you, Mayor Adams, is actually a very simple one.
It is clear that whatever your intentions, whatever actions you
take whether on immigration or anything else, you do not enjoy
the trust and confidence of the people of New York City. And my
question is, why haven't you not resigned yet, and do you plan
to resign today or anytime soon?
Mr. Adams. I am really surprised after you laid out your
strong belief in the country----
Mr. Min. It is a yes/no question.
Mr. Adams [continuing]. And what we stand for, that you are
asking to take----
Mr. Min. Why have you not resigned yet, Mayor Adams?
Mr. Adams [continuing]. Away the power of the people.
Mr. Min. Why have you not resigned yet?
Mr. Adams. The people of the city elected me to be the
Mayor.
Mr. Min. It is not a question against your lawyers. Why
have you not resigned yet? Please answer the question.
Mr. Adams. And you should not be hypocrite and ask the
people of the city's power to be usurped for them.
Mr. Min. Why have you not resigned yet, and do you intend
to resign anytime soon?
Mr. Adams. I was elected by the people of the city, and you
do not----
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired. The
gentleman's time has expired. The Chair recognizes Mr. Jack
from Georgia.
Mr. Jack. Mr. Chairman, thank you for convening this
hearing, and I would like to begin by offering some thoughts
about our colleague from Texas, Congressman Sylvester Turner,
who sadly just passed away.
As some of you may know, Congressman Turner was a former
two-term Mayor of Houston, and as our witnesses can no doubt
attest, being the Mayor of a big city is not easy. Congressman
Turner was a member of our freshman class, and his office is
right next to mine in the Longworth House Office Building. And
as such, I had an opportunity to walk with him to and from
votes, found him to be an incredible gentleman with respect and
courtesy. My colleagues across the aisle, particularly the
freshmen, knew Congressman Turner better than I, so I certainly
yield to them on this topic, but I wanted to at least mention
my own thoughts for the record.
Now to the topic of today's hearing. I prepared for today's
hearing by chatting with some of the mayors from my district,
from those who represent just a few hundred to those who
represent a few thousand, and I found a common theme of
frustration. They, along with me and many other constituents I
proudly represent in Georgia's 3rd Congressional District, want
to know why policies are in place that benefit citizens of
other countries at the expense of citizens of our own country.
So, if I could, Mayor Johnston, I would like to start with
you, from Denver. I know Chairman Comer in his opening line of
questioning discussed an ordinance passed by the Denver City
Council in 2017, and I recognize you had just left the State
Senate by then, but this ordinance prohibits city and county
employees from assisting the enforcement of Federal laws or
inquiring about a person's immigration status. So, I just have
to ask, do you see a benefit in learning whether or not someone
charged with a crime is a citizen of another country?
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, Congressman. I do just want to say
Mayor Turner hosted me in Houston when I first became Mayor, so
that is a powerful statement for me. Thank you for
acknowledging it. Thank you, sir. We do not ask someone's
status when we first contact them because it is not relevant
for whatever charges we may be pursuing. They may list their
country of origin on a document that we ask for. It does not
indicate their immigration status. They could have legal status
but be from another country.
Mr. Jack. Thanks. Mayor Johnson of Chicago, do you see a
benefit in asking someone charged with a crime whether or not
they are a citizen of our country?
Mr. Johnson. The benefit of community safety is trust
between local residents and law enforcement, and that
relationship is critical to driving violence down. Under my
leadership, violence has gone down in the city of Chicago.
Mr. Jack. And, Mayor Johnson, if I can ask, have you ever
disciplined, fired, or arrested law enforcement officers or
correction officers if they notified ICE or other Federal
immigration officers of an illegal criminal alien in lock up
reports in violation of your sanctuary city policies? Have you
ever disciplined, fired, or arrested a law enforcement officer
that worked with ICE?
Mr. Johnson. I do not believe that is under the
jurisdiction of the Mayor. I do not arrest people or----
Mr. Jack. Are there issued memos in which you direct
Chicago officers from not assisting with enforcement and
immigration law or, you know, helping ICE identify folks who
may not be here legally?
Mr. Johnson. We do have documentation around making sure
that the residents of the city of Chicago know their rights.
That is important because it builds trust between law
enforcement and community. By having that confidence and trust,
people are more likely to come forward to report violent crime
regardless of their immigration status.
Mr. Jack. Well, I have to submit to the record, Mr.
Chairman, an article from NewsNationNow, January 21, 2025, in
which it says, ``Chicago Police Reminded They Cannot Cooperate
with Deportations,'' and if I may ask, Mayor, are there any
memos----
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Jack. Thank you. Are there any memos that direct
Chicago police ``do not cooperate with President Trump's
deportation plans?''
Mr. Johnson. We are not Federal agents, so local law
enforcement in the city of Chicago, they do not dub as Federal
agents.
Mr. Jack. But that having been said, from your mayoral
office, have you ever issued memos to the police department
instructing them not to cooperate with President Trump?
Mr. Johnson. We remind people of what the Welcoming City
ordinance entails.
Mr. Jack. Would you submit to the Committee any written
documentation to the Chicago Police Department as it relates to
this?
Mr. Johnson. For the Welcoming City ordinance, we are happy
to make sure that this body has that ordinance, and that policy
has been around for 40 years.
Mr. Jack. Thank you very much.
Mayor Wu, back to my line of questioning with Mayor
Johnston and Johnson, do you believe that if you are asking
someone who has been charged with a crime whether or not they
are here in our country legally, is that a proper and a
beneficial thing to do?
Ms. Wu. The laws of Massachusetts and the Boston Trust Act
help Boston police solve crimes. We do not ask for immigration
status because it allows for people to trust that when they
call 9-1-1, when they have information that might help bring
justice to another family, that they feel comfortable sharing
that.
Mr. Jack. Thank you. And Mayor Adams, in closing
-obviously, you know police very well--do you see a benefit
in asking folks who have been charged with a crime whether or
not they are a legal citizen?
Mr. Adams. Yes, I do.
Mr. Jack. With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. The Chair
recognizes Ms. Gillen.
Ms. Gillen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think one thing
everybody seems to agree on here is that our immigration system
is broken and desperately needs to be fixed. And I ask my
colleagues on the other side of the aisle to work together with
us to fix our broken immigration system, to fix our broken
asylum system, which is not fixed by firing the top immigration
judges who can actually help us fix this problem, but my focus
here today is the effect on my constituents on Long Island.
Every day my constituents are dealing with the effects of
the failure to secure our border and the influx of more than
670,000 migrants who have come into the state and New York City
putting a strain on our schools, on public safety and law
enforcement, and local governments. Mayor Adams, you said your
top priority is to keep New Yorkers safe, but under your watch,
the exact opposite has happened. Instead of effectively
governing our city, your policies have compounded this crisis.
New York has housed migrants in the Roosevelt Hotel for
nearly 2 years, not only giving them food and shelter, but also
debit cards. In New York, taxpayers have paid about, as you
acknowledge, $7 billion to respond to this crisis. That figure
is outrageous. And now, instead of stopping the bleeding, you
are going back and asking the taxpayers of New York to spend
another billion dollars on this crisis. While you focused on
your own personal problems, crime has skyrocketed in New York,
increasing 20 percent since you took office in 2021.
An AP poll has said that the majority of Americans agree
that undocumented people who commit violent crimes should be
deported, including 79 percent of Democrats, but what have you
done? I was astounded to hear that ICE was prevented, even if
they knew there were gang members in the Roosevelt Hotel, from
actually doing anything to get those gang members out of there.
Mayor Adams, what have you done, and what is your answer to the
taxpayers of New York for the money that has been spent on this
crisis?
Mr. Adams. You raise several things, and there is a level
of inaccuracy in some of the stuff you raise, and you look at
our crime numbers. I am not sure where you got those from, but
we could give you an accurate account of our crime numbers.
Crime has continued to drop since I have been the Mayor of the
city. We have moved over 20,000 illegal guns off our street,
and although we had 230,000 migrants and asylum seekers that
came to our door, 189,000 were able to go on to the next step
of their journey.
We managed a crisis. Congress makes our immigration
policies, not mayors. I managed a crisis that was dropped at my
door, and I continue to do that every day, and I am proud of
what my team did coming out of COVID and managing this crisis
as well. Our city has more private sector jobs in the history
of the city, our bond rate has increased and stabilized, our
city is functioning, and we are going to continue to do the job
that I was elected to do.
Ms. Gillen. So, spending $8 billion is a good job? Mayor
Adams, what you said today has given me no confidence in your
ability to continue to serve and lead our city.
Mr. Adams. But you do not live in New York City.
Ms. Gillen. You have proven that you are unfit--to serve
as----
Mr. Adams. You live on Long Island. You do not vote for me.
Ms. Gillen [continuing]. Mayor, and you should resign, and
I said that before you made your deal with Donald Trump.
Mr. Adams. Thank God you do not live in New York City. You
live on Long Island. People of the city elect----
Ms. Gillen. But the problems of New York City affect my
constituents who work----
Mr. Adams. People of New York City elect----
Ms. Gillen [continuing]. In Manhattan, whose kids live in
Manhattan, who go to the doctor in Manhattan. Everything that
happens in Manhattan affects my constituents, Mayor. I yield
back.
Mr. Connolly. Would the gentlelady yield to me, please? I
thank the gentlelady. My question, Mr. Bier, we have heard a
lot about crime. So, the overwhelming majority of crime in the
United States is committed by undocumented individuals whose
immigration status is dubious. Is that correct?
Mr. Bier. No, that is not correct at all. The overwhelming
majority of crime is committed by U.S.-born Americans.
Mr. Connolly. So, if I wanted to demonize naturally born
Americans, I could cherry pick crime rates from that
population, and demonize them and dramatize that and use it to
smear an entire subgroup in the population, in this case, a
majority group. Is that correct?
Mr. Bier. Oh, absolutely. You could look at people with
driver's licenses and say, man, they are committing a lot of
crime. We should stop issuing driver's licenses to people.
Mr. Connolly. Right. I think that is really the sham and
the shame of what people are doing in terms of political
exploitation of a population this country needs if we are going
to grow and protect the social safety net for the future. Thank
you.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Ms. Greene from
Georgia.
Ms. Greene. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for coming
before our Committee today.
In the past 4 years, our Nation has been invaded by
millions and millions of people who have crossed our border.
There are also millions of what is called known got-aways.
These are people that our government has no idea where they
came from, who they are, what they are going to do in our
country. And many of these known got-aways could be criminals.
They could be part of the narco cartels. They could be
terrorists. We do not know who they are, and there are millions
of them here. This country has also been the victim of
fentanyl. This is a dangerous chemical that comes from China,
is made into pressed pills in Mexico and Canada, and illegally
distributed into our country by the cartels. On average, 200 to
300 Americans die every single day from fentanyl. Not die, they
are murdered. They are murdered.
Americans have also been victims of all types of illegal
alien crimes. One family in particular, Laken Riley's family, I
know them personally, and her death was absolutely horrific.
Jose Ibarra entered the United States illegally on September 8,
2022, near El Paso, Texas, with his wife and son. He was
detained by the U.S. Border Patrol but soon released due to
overcrowding at detention facilities. After his release, he was
transported to New York City, arriving around September 15,
2022. The following summer, he was arrested by New York Police
Department and charged with acting in a manner to injure a
child--injure a child--and a driver's license violation. Before
an immigration detainer could be issued, NYPD released Ibarra.
According to ICE, he later, after this release, moved to
Athens, Georgia, where he was cited for a misdemeanor for
shoplifting in 2023. This guy got arrested multiple times, he
was stopped at the border, but he was continually released.
Just a few months later, he brutally murdered Laken Riley.
Mayor Adams, do you agree that Laken Riley would still be
alive today if New York Police Department had not released Jose
Ibarra after they arrested him?
Mr. Adams. A despicable crime, and as a former law
enforcement officer, I respond to these crimes as the Mayor as
well, and I believe people like that should be held
accountable. And I have advocated to stop this revolving door
criminal justice systems like him to come out and hurt innocent
people. I wish we would have had the power to prevent that from
happening.
Ms. Greene. Mayor Adams, will you continue sanctuary city
policies in your city?
Mr. Adams. That policy is by law. I do not make the law. I
must operate within the confines of the Constitution and the
law.
Ms. Greene. Mayor Adams, will you advocate to get rid of
sanctuary city policies in the city of New York?
Mr. Adams. I have made it clear on a portion of the
sanctuary city policies that I believe we need to alter to
prevent crimes like this from taking place.
Ms. Greene. Federal law under 8 U.S.C. 1324 makes it a
crime to knowingly harbor and shield illegal aliens from
detection, but your cities refuse to work with ICE detainers to
help them find these criminals. I will go one at a time. Mayor
Adams, will you work with ICE in New York City? Yes or no.
Mr. Adams. ICE is part of our criminal justice apparatus,
and I will work with my city, state and Federal agencies to
keep our city safe no matter who they are.
Ms. Greene. Mayor Johnston, will you work with ICE to
protect your city?
Mr. Johnston. We do work with ICE right now, Congresswoman.
When they send us information about someone they would like
access to, we send them notice when and where we will release
them, and they can pick them up. We have done that 1,226 times.
We will keep doing it.
Ms. Greene. Will you end sanctuary city policies?
Mr. Johnston. We think the policies that we have right now
allow us to work with ICE and to stop crime, and we will keep
doing that.
Ms. Greene. Mayor Johnson, will you work with ICE?
Mr. Johnson. Our local law enforcement, Chicago Police
Department, we work with Federal agents on a variety of issues,
drug trafficking, sex trafficking, getting guns off the street,
and we will continue to work with Federal agencies.
Ms. Greene. Will you stop harboring illegal aliens? Will
you end sanctuary city policies?
Mr. Johnson. So, the city of Chicago, we do not harbor
criminals. We do not harbor undocumented individuals. We comply
with all laws.
Ms. Greene. Mayor Wu, will you work with ICE to protect
Americans, legal Americans, in your city and end sanctuary
policies?
Ms. Wu. The Boston police work with ICE and Federal
agencies every single day on criminal matters and hold people
who are committing crimes accountable.
Ms. Greene. Chairman, if I may, I would like to enter for
the record, according to the U.S. Constitution, giving aid and
comfort to the enemies of the United States is an act of
treason, and those that violate that should be held
accountable.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Greene. Thank you.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Ms. Ocasio-Cortez.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you, Chairman. Now, Mayor Adams,
are you aware that the former acting U.S. Attorney, Danielle
Sassoon, was present at the January 31 meeting between your
lawyers and Federal prosecutors?
Mr. Adams. As I stated, and Congresswoman, you appear to
want to ask the question over and over again. I could only give
you----
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. No, these are very different questions.
Mr. Adams [continuing]. The appropriate question over and
over and over again that----
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. OK. I understand.
Mr. Adams [continuing]. This case is under Judge Ho----
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Mayor Adams, you are not answering this
question because you believe you will incriminate yourself?
Mr. Adams [continuing]. And Judge Ho will be able to
respond to the movement of this case.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. I understand.
Mr. Adams. In deference to him, I would like to have him
handle it.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Mr. Chairman, I would like submit to the
Congressional Record Danielle Sassoon's resignation letter from
the U.S. Attorney.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you so much. In her letter, the
former acting U.S. Attorney, a registered Republican, a former
clerk for Antonin Scalia, who was appointed by President Trump
to serve as acting U.S. Attorney, was present at the January 31
meeting between Mayor Adams' attorneys and Federal prosecutors.
After that meeting with attorneys, the acting U.S. Attorney
resigned rather than dismiss the charges against Mr. Adams. In
her letter, which I have just submitted to the Congressional
Record, Ms. Sassoon stated that during that January 31 meeting,
Mayor Adams's attorneys ``repeatedly urged what amounted to a
quid pro quo,'' describing it as an ``improper offer of
immigration enforcement assistance in exchange for a dismissal
of his case.'' The former acting U.S. Attorney has submitted a
letter, and, Mayor Adams, do you know how many Federal
prosecutors, total, resigned rather than file the motion to
drop the charges?
Mr. Adams. It was reported that seven?
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Seven, correct. Mr. Chair, I would like
to submit another letter from Hagan Scotten, his resignation
letter.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Mr. Scott was an assistant U.S. Attorney
who also attended the January 31 meeting between your attorneys
and Federal prosecutors. He also resigned rather than drop the
charges. In his resignation letter, he stated, ``Our laws and
traditions do not allow using the prosecutorial power to
influence other citizens, much less elected officials.'' Seven
Federal prosecutors, the acting U.S. Attorney, the assistant
U.S. Attorney, all gave up their entire careers, Republicans
included, than drop these charges because of what they saw
transpire in that January 31 meeting. This is important not
just for the city of New York, but for the people of the United
States of America because what is being alleged is genuinely
not just about what may or may not have occurred from the
Mayor's office and with the Mayor, but what is happening at the
Department of Justice, and that is what I want everyone to
understand.
These are not Democratic U.S. Attorneys. These are
Republican U.S. Attorneys that have trained under Republican-
appointed Supreme Court justices, who have stated and suggested
as well that the prosecutorial power at the Department of
Justice may be influencing what is occurring, and instead of
carrying that out and carrying out the erosion at the
Department of Justice, they would have preferred to give up
their entire careers. Seven lifelong public servants involved
in law enforcement, mind you.
And to that, and when it comes to the fact that this may or
may not have anything to do with this hearing, respectfully,
Mr. Chairman, this is about specifically immigration
enforcement in terms of that. And this right here is the four-
alarm fire that everyone must be paying attention to because if
it is not just in the Mayor's Office of New York City, what
other city, what other individual, what other municipality
leader can be next? For a party that talks about states' rights
and municipal rights, we must defend, yes, the rule of law,
including in the Department of Justice, and with that, I yield
back.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady yields back. The Chair
recognizes Mr. LaHood from Illinois.
Mr. LaHood. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for
allowing me the opportunity to waive on to this important
Committee hearing today. I want to thank the witnesses.
I represent a district right outside of Chicago, the
outskirts of Chicago, representing Rockford, Bloomington/
Normal, Peoria. And I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman, for
having this hearing. It is past time that individuals like the
mayors we have before us come before us and explain to the
American people why you continue to fail to enforce the laws of
our country and allow illegal immigrants to flood into our
communities. And it is clear to me that sanctuary city policies
have significantly harmed our once great cities, which is very,
very unfortunate. During my time as an elected official, I have
strongly condemned the policy around sanctuary cities and the
impact it has had on the state of Illinois. And I believe every
sensible resident in Illinois knows these policies have further
harmed the economy in Illinois, increased crime throughout our
state, and endangered hardworking, law abiding Illinois
citizens.
I want to turn my attention to you, Mayor Brandon Johnson
of Chicago. As I have watched you over the last 2 years that
you have been Mayor, I have been amazed at how tone deaf you
have been and how oblivious you have been to the decline of
Chicago. And I say that looking objectively at a number of
things, out-of-control crime in Chicago, people scared
throughout neighborhoods on the West Side, South Side, North
Side. Morale has never been lower with law enforcement and CPD,
a record number of police officers leaving the force. We have
been hemorrhaging people out of the city of Chicago to the
suburbs and elsewhere where they feel safe, a record number of
businesses fleeing the city of Chicago.
You couple that with record deficits, $2 billion dollar
deficit line of credit that you just had to take out this week,
but you have spent $300 million of taxpayer money on illegal
immigrants. And when I think about all of those things and I
look at the strategy you continue to take, I mean, you are
putting the interest of illegal immigrants above the interest
of taxpayers in Chicago. But you continue to go down this path,
and for the life of me, I cannot understand it. So, Mayor, tell
me why you continue to put the interest of illegal immigrants
above taxpayers in Chicago?
Mr. Johnson. Thank you for your representation. Violent
crime is down in Chicago.
Mr. LaHood. Well, let me reclaim my time. So, I have a
statistic here. Last year, Chicago had 573 murders.
Mr. Johnson. Down.
Mr. LaHood. OK. But I want to compare that to the city of
New York that is almost two-thirds the size of Chicago, 337
murders. So, you had 573 murders in the city of Chicago and you
are one-third the size.
Mr. Johnson. That is the lowest amount in 5 years under my
leadership.
Mr. LaHood. OK. And you look at the level of violent
criminals, sexual offenses, and drug dealers----
Mr. Johnson. All violent crime is down in Chicago. In fact,
just this year alone, Congressman, respectfully, there is a 20-
percent decrease in violent crime in the city of Chicago under
my----
Mr. LaHood. I do not agree with your statistics. Now----
Mr. Johnson. Well, it is not a matter of whether or not you
agree with it. It is a matter of whether it is correct.
Mr. LaHood. Let me reclaim my time because I thought you
might do this, and when I hear your answer, no one in this room
should be surprised that your approval rating is 6.6 percent.
Now, that is not just me saying this. Newsweek article, the
least popular politician in America is Brandon Johnson. So, ``a
recent poll M3 Strategies conducted this February 20 to 21
showed that Mayor Johnson has a 6.6 percent approval rating,
the worst showing of any political figure in the country's
history.'' So, I know you are talking about crime is down and
things are great and, you know, the city is flush with money.
None of that is backed up by the people in the city of Chicago.
And so, I am wondering why you continue to go down this path of
failed policies, destruction to the city of Chicago, people
fleeing, law enforcement at an all-time low. And I am wondering
if you have any remorse for that here today, and can tell us
why you continue to double down on these failed policies.
Mr. Johnson. We have invested $1.25 billion for housing and
economic development, particularly for Black Chicago. It is the
largest investment in the history of Chicago, 45-percent
increase in youth employment, particularly for Black and Brown
children. I will not apologize for my investments in the people
of Chicago. We have one of the most diverse economies, the top
universities. As violence continues to go down and investments
continue to go up, that is what is most important. We have
opened up three mental health clinics, the first Black mayor in
the history of Chicago to actually invest in----
Mr. LaHood. Mr. Major, I am going to reclaim my time.
Mr. Johnson [continuing]. Public health, and I will
continue make those investments.
Mr. LaHood. Your approval rating speaks volumes, 6.6
percent.
Mr. Johnson. Well, the people approve of my investments,
and I will continue to make those investments. Thank you very
much.
Mr. LaHood. You are going the wrong direction. You need to
reverse your policies on sanctuary cities. That is what the
election results were last year. Crime and immigration----
Mr. Johnson. Is down in Chicago.
Mr. LaHood [continuing]. Were the No. 1 issue in the
election from Republicans, Democrats----
Mr. Connolly. Chairman, the gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Johnson. We could use your help to actually help us
continue to invest in these programs that continue to drive
violence down in the city of Chicago, and I am willing to work
with you. And I am glad I had a chance to finally meet you for
the first time.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired. The Chair
recognizes Mr. Davis from Illinois.
Mr. Davis. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and I
also want to thank you and Ranking Member Connolly.
Mr. Connolly. If the gentleman could speak into the
microphone so we can hear him.
Mr. Davis. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I also want
to thank you and Ranking Member Connolly for letting me
participate in today's hearing. I also want to thank all of the
witnesses. I served sometime as a city councilman, so I know
what it looks like to be mayor and what happens. Thank you for
your service. As a proud Chicagoan, I stand in support of our
city's locally elected leaders, namely Mayor Brandon Johnson,
who could be back home serving the residents of Chicago but
instead is here before us today preserving and protecting the
sovereignty of the city of Chicago as a welcoming and humane
city.
At a time when immigrants are being blanketly labeled as
criminals and targeted haphazardly to field the Trump-Musk
Administration's PR-orientated deportation stunt, I am proud
that since the enactment of the Illinois Trust Act in 2017, the
state of Illinois, Cook County, and the city of Chicago have
maintained an ongoing commitment to welcoming those in need,
including those that have endured persecution abroad and
pressed their way across borders looking and longing for a
better life for themselves and their families. I think we all
agree that immigration has long played an integral role in the
development of American society, culture, and its economy. In
recognition of such, the city of Chicago is holding true to its
values. As Mayor Johnson has stated on several occasions that
Chicago ``will remain a welcoming city'' despite recent and
repeated threats and attempts of coercion from the current
Administration to do otherwise.
Likewise, H.R. 32, the supposed No Bailout for Sanctuary
Cities Act that undergirds today's hearing, is drafted in the
same threatening, intrusive, and non-constructive manner, as
the measure unfairly calls for welcoming jurisdictions to be
stripped of Federal funding that we just heard often goes
toward supporting critical public safety initiatives and local
programming needs. In fact, I would contend that the bill, as
drafted, infringes on the constitutional balance of power
between states and the Federal Government and will cause more
harm than help if enacted.
So, Mr. Mayor Johnson of Chicago, the Windy City, the city
of the Big Shoulders, would you share with this Committee what
principles and concepts guide your thoughts and actions as you
go about your task of being Mayor for all of these people in
Chicago?
Mr. Johnson. Thank you very much, Congressman Davis, for
your leadership, and it is good to see my neighbor here today.
You know, look, the city of Chicago, we reflect and we
represent the best part of America. It is a diverse city,
again, a city that was established by a Black Haitian immigrant
and a Potawatomi woman, a city that has invited immigrants from
around the world, a city that was built by the formerly
enslaved, my ancestors. And it is a very proud moment to not
only represent the city of Chicago, but it is my honor.
What we have experienced over the last 20 months since I
have been in office, first of all, the city of Chicago is
safer. Violent crime has gone down in the city of Chicago by
over 20 percent just this year alone. We have invested in
housing. We have invested in mental health care. We have
invested in youth employment. We have invested in our overall
community safety plan, 200 more detectives to solve crime. We
are headed in the right direction, and I am grateful for your
leadership, and I will look for this body to continue to
support these efforts for all of our cities. Thank you.
Mr. Davis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
Chairman Comer. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Mr. Evans
from Colorado.
Mr. Evans. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Ranking Member for
allowing me to waive on to this Committee. And of course, thank
you to the witnesses for taking the time to come and have this
conversation.
So, Denver Mayor Johnston, I am a Colorado native, grew up
in and around the Denver Metro area, also Latino, grandson of
an immigrant from Mexico, and I also served for 12 years in the
U.S. Army, Colorado Army National Guard, and in the Denver
Metro area for another 10 years as a police officer. And
unfortunately, as a Denver Metro area police officer, I have
seen firsthand how public safety in Colorado and in Denver is
plummeting. When I started my law enforcement career, Colorado
was ranked 31st in the Nation for our crime rate. We were
ranked 3rd in the Nation last year. Denver, 6 years ago, in
2019, they did not even make the top 50 most dangerous cities
in the country list. This year, in 2024, 2025, U.S. News &
World Report ranks Denver as the 10th most dangerous city in
the country.
Denver has twice the homicide rate as San Francisco. We
have lost more than 7,000 Coloradans to illegal drug overdose
deaths since 2020, with a significant percentage of that coming
from illegal drugs like fentanyl. And we know from criminal
intelligence that in the Denver, Colorado area, almost all of
that fentanyl is being trafficked by illegal transnational
criminal organizations, the Jalisco Cartel and the Sinaloa
Cartel. We have seen a massive increase. This is just a recent
headline. We have seen an increase in tusi, which is the drug
of choice of Tren de Aragua in the Denver Metro area. And we
have seen headlines that show that overdose deaths in the
Denver Metro area remain stubbornly flat, despite falling in
pretty much everywhere around the country. In terms of violent
crimes, Denver has had over 6,400 violent crimes, so that is
including things like 689 sexual assaults, over 1,200
robberies, over 4,400 aggravated assaults, and, again,
depending on which data base you look at, anywhere from 65 to
71 homicides, again, double the homicide rate of San Francisco.
So, the first question to you is, for those homicides, do
you know how many of those were committed by people illegally
present in the country?
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, Congressman, and happy to answer
that because I think you may have some bad facts. I am happy to
clarify them for you. In terms of what is happening in Denver
right now, as we know, crime is down in Denver from last year
to this----
Mr. Evans. Reclaiming my time, Mayor. Do you know----
Mr. Johnston. I do want to answer the question you phrased.
Mr. Evans. Reclaiming my time. Do you know how many of
those 65 to 71 homicides were committed by people illegally
present in the country? And I am happy to show all of the
sources for my facts.
Mr. Johnston. We do not ask anyone's status at point of
arrest. We do not know someone's status, and when they charge,
when we arrest them----
[Posters]
Mr. Evans. Thank you. Thank you for the answer, Mr. Mayor.
And I am glad you have brought that up because as you can see
displayed here, we actually have a training bulletin to the
Denver Police Department, dated January of this year, which
pretty much says what you just said, which is that Denver
Police Department is prohibited from asking for any information
about the national origin, immigration, or citizenship status
of any individual. And that is a problem because of the second
item that we are going to display here, which is the standard
FBI fingerprint card, something that I filled out for over a
decade when I was a police officer, which has those items as
mandatory fields, location of birth and then the citizenship.
And so, I have heard, being a cop in the Denver Metro area,
that police officers in Denver are being told not to fill out
those mandatory fields in the FBI fingerprint card, which could
potentially indicate why you are unsure of how many of these
crimes are being committed by illegal immigrants in your city.
So, the second question is, will you allow Denver police
officers to fill out all of the information on an FBI
fingerprint card to including asking for and recording the
citizenship status?
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, Congressman. Right now, under city
ordinance, we do not ask someone's status at point of contact,
and that does not prejudice in any way our prosecution. We
believe it does not matter where someone is from, which crime
they have committed.
Mr. Evans. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
Mr. Johnston. We are going to charge them aggressively
regardless.
Mr. Evans. So, you are not filling out the FBI fingerprint
card as required.
Mr. Johnston. Right now, we are filling out information
when folks arrive, and none of that information prevents us
from prosecuting them to the full extent of the law, which is
what we do.
Mr. Evans. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, not filling out the
FBI fingerprint card, which would directly contradict your
statement that you want people who are illegally present in the
country and committing crimes to be held to account for those
crimes. And I think that the statistics that we have gone
through in the space of crime show why Denver is specifically
cratering in their public safety statistics as compared to
major cities around the country.
Mr. Johnston. It is actually false.
Mr. Evans. I can show you my statistics. And as a police
officer, I am here to make sure that we are uplifting the
voices of the victims of these crimes who are being taken
advantage of in communities that provide sanctuary to
dangerous, illegal criminal gangs like Tren de Aragua, which
your jail released just last week, we talked about, somebody
back into the community. We must take care of our victims. I
brought legislation the UPLIFT Act to focus on this. We are
here to protect the victims, and, Mayor, I would ask you to
join me in that.
Mr. Johnston. We have already done that.
Mr. Evans. I yield back.
Mr. Johnston. And we will keep doing that. Thank you. I am
happy to answer.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Crank from
Colorado.
Mr. Connolly. Mr. Chairman?
Chairman Comer. One moment.
Mr. Connolly. Just a quick UC. I would ask unanimous
consent to enter in the record an NPR article, entitled,
``Criminal Records of January 6 Rioters Pardoned by Trump
Include Rape, Domestic Violence,'' and I would also ask the
correspondence between a number of us and the new Attorney
General, Pamela Bondi, be entered into the record at this
point.
Chairman Comer. Without objection so ordered.
Mr. Connolly. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Chairman Comer. Now, the Chair recognizes Mr. Crank from
Colorado.
Mr. Crank. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for allowing
me to waive on. This is a very important issue to the state of
Colorado, and Mayor Johnston, thanks for being here. I know,
for all of you, it has been a long day. Appreciate you being
here.
Mayor Mike Johnston, Denver has an ordinance that prohibits
city and county employees from assisting in the enforcement of
Federal immigration laws or inquiring about a person's
immigration status. We have just talked about that. The city of
Denver also has a legal defense fund to support individuals
facing deportation. Denver has received more than 41,000
illegal aliens over the past 2 years, and due to its sanctuary
status, has become a popular destination for illegal aliens. It
is estimated that Denver spends more than $180 million a year
supporting illegal immigrants, and in rare cases where ICE is
able to apprehend an illegal immigrant in Denver jails, Denver
forbids that transfer from taking place in the jail.
Now, I just did a ride along with El Paso County sheriffs.
That is my home county, Colorado Springs, just an hour away. I
just did a ride along with them. For the safety of their
officers, and the ICE officials, the community, and the
detainee, do transfers in the jail with El Paso County officers
present and with the handcuffs on. Now, that El Paso County
method has never, ever resulted in the injury of an officer
during the transfer. However, in Denver, you require that
Denver Police Department release Tren de Aragua gang members to
the ``streets'' uncuffed and hope that ICE agents are not able
to apprehend them on their own. That is the hope.
Let us just be honest. With no Denver Police Department
officer there to assist if the situation turns violent, that is
irresponsible, and to be clear, there is no Federal law that
forces you to do it this way, Mr. Mayor. This policy and the
danger that it creates is wholly a result of your policy as the
City and County of Denver. Just last week, it resulted in an
illegal Tren de Aragua member assaulting and biting an ICE
agent because he was uncuffed and he was released by Denver to
a parking lot. Now, you are putting police officers who you are
sworn to help protect, as their mayor, at risk to score
political points, and I think it is outrageous. It is
unbecoming to your office, and it is a danger to the people of
Colorado and the citizens of Denver.
Now, we have this case, and I know you have talked about it
today, Abraham Gonzalez, suspected TdA gang member, released
from Denver County Jail, as I mentioned. Due to Colorado
sanctuary policies--this is a post by ICE--was forced to arrest
him in public. ICE was forced to arrest him in public, where he
assaulted officers. Sanctuary policies endanger communities and
law enforcement. That is their post.
I would ask that this be entered into the record, Mr.
Chairman.
Chairman Comer. Without objection so ordered.
Mr. Crank. Mr. Mayor, yes or no, would you feel safe if you
were alone in a parking lot with a Tren de Aragua gang member?
Mr. Johnston. We did not put a situation where someone
would----
Mr. Crank. Just yes or no, would you feel safe if you were
in a parking lot alone with a Tren de Aragua member like you
make your police officers do or like you make an ICE agent do?
Yes or no.
Mr. Johnston. There were six ICE agents on the scene when
he was released----
Mr. Crank. Could you answer my question? Would you feel
safe?
Mr. Johnston [continuing]. Without any weapons----
Mr. Crank. Would you feel safe?
Mr. Johnston [continuing]. In a secure location.
Mr. Crank. Reclaiming my time. Thank you. Reclaiming my
time, Mr. Mayor. You are not going to answer the question.
Would Coloradans be safer if ICE had full cooperation from
Denver to remove Tren de Aragua gang members, yes or no?
Mr. Johnston. We currently honor those notification
requests. We have done it 1,226 times. This is the first time I
have ever been aware of there being an incident, which is why I
reached out to ICE yesterday.
Mr. Crank. Full cooperation would be allowing them to come
into the jail and doing it in the jail, not in the parking lot.
Will you change that? For the safety of your officers and those
ICE agents, would you change that?
Mr. Johnston. I reached out to the ICE officers as soon as
I heard about this. I have a meeting with them in the coming
weeks to talk about the procedure. We have two jails. Ninety
percent of the pickups are from the other jail, where we have
never had an occurrence like this.
Mr. Crank. Would you change it?
Mr. Johnston. And so, I am going to sit down with the ICE
officers and see if they are----
Mr. Crank. It is just common sense. You do not do a
transfer in the middle of a parking lot when you can do it in a
jail. It is common sense. It is common sense.
Mr. Johnston. And common sense, 1,226 times it has worked,
and so we are going to figure out what happened.
Mr. Crank. Mr. Mayor, is your highest priority as the
Mayor, the citizens? The safety of the citizens of Denver?
Mr. Johnston. My priority as Mayor is to protect public
safety for all of my residents.
Mr. Crank. OK. Last question: have you apologized to the
Federal law enforcement agent who was assaulted by a Tren de
Aragua gang member because of your failed leadership? Yes or
no?
Mr. Johnston. I reached out to the ICE officers yesterday,
and I have asked to sit down with them to talk about this
procedure and how we can align systems to make sure no other
officers get injured.
Mr. Crank. Thank you.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Burlison from
Missouri.
Mr. Burlison. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. From what I gathered
from this hearing, the term ``sanctuary cities'' seems to mean
a sanctuary only for criminals. Throughout this hearing, we
have heard countless examples of illegal immigrants with
criminal histories being allowed to roam free in these cities
and continue to commit crimes and violence against American
citizens that should never have happened.
The bottom line is that sanctuary policies are a violation
of Federal immigration laws. The states, when they enacted the
Constitution in Article I, Section 8, Clause 4, made it very
clear that it is in the purview of the Federal Government, not
the states, to determine these policies. States should not be
flaunting our laws that they gave us the sole responsibility to
implement. And yet, Chicago, Denver, New York City, and Boston
are aiding and abetting in the furtherance of laws and policies
that are in direct defiance of the immigration laws that are
passed by Congress. This hearing is important for us, as
Congress, to determine ways in which we can use our
constitutional powers, such as the power of the purse, to force
these and other sanctuary cities into compliance.
My first question, I want to ask Mr. Bier. You have not had
a lot of questions today, right?
Mr. Bier. I had enough.
Mr. Burlison. I want to ask, OK, so are you aware of how
much it costs the American taxpayer per illegal immigrant in
the United States, roughly?
Mr. Bier. Not on a per capita basis, no.
Mr. Burlison. OK. The Budget Committee has determined it is
almost about $9,000 in net loss per illegal immigrant.
Mr. Bier. That is definitely not correct.
Mr. Burlison. OK. You can question, but that is the group
that did the research, so let me ask you this. Does Cato
support creating taxpayer programs to subsidize other people's
healthcare benefits?
Mr. Bier. No, we do not.
Mr. Burlison. OK. Does Cato support using taxpayer dollars
to support people staying in hotels?
Mr. Bier. Definitely not.
Mr. Burlison. OK. Just wanted to get that cleared up
because I was worried where Cato stood.
Mr. Adams, you stated that the migrant crisis--first, I
want to ask this question from everybody on the panel. If there
is a difference between the ICE detainer and a criminal
warrant, which one would you honor?
Mr. Adams. I am not quite sure I understand the question.
You said there is a difference between an ICE detainer and a
criminal warrant?
Mr. Burlison. Yes.
Mr. Adams. We would always honor an ICE detainer that comes
with a judicial warrant. That is what the law calls for in the
city.
Mr. Burlison. OK. And do you concur? Is that what you would
do?
Mr. Johnston. We always support our criminal warrants with
ICE requests, yes.
Mr. Burlison. OK. Mr. Johnson?
Mr. Johnson. With a criminal warrant, we do. Our local
police department with a criminal warrant will collaborate and
cooperate with Federal agents.
Mr. Burlison. And Ms. Wu?
Ms. Wu. Whenever there is a criminal warrant from any
agency, Boston police enforce it.
Mr. Burlison. OK. Mr. Johnson, I am concerned about what is
happening, obviously, in my neighboring state of Illinois. Let
us see. You said that you oppose proposals to eliminate
sanctuary protections for illegal immigrants that are convicted
of serious crimes. Why do you think it is important to protect
even violent criminals?
Mr. Johnson. We do not. We do not protect violent
criminals. In fact, my top priority is to make sure that the
people of Chicago are safe. Our local law enforcement work hard
every single day to ensure that. That is why I invested in more
detectives so that we can actually solve crime, and as a result
of the work that I have done and my leadership, crime has gone
down since I have been Mayor.
Mr. Burlison. Ms. Wu, you have said multiple times, you
made it very clear that you are a welcoming city, knowing that
there is a cost to the taxpayer. What is the acceptable number?
Is there any acceptable or reasonable limit that you would
consider before your city is overrun?
Ms. Wu. We are a city that is the safest in the country
because everyone feels connected to city services. Everyone can
call 9-1-1.
Mr. Burlison. So, you have no answer. There is no capacity
that is too much.
Ms. Wu. Congressman, respectfully, I am the Mayor of
Boston. I do not get to decide who comes into our country and
where they go after that. Our job is to keep people fed and
healthy and safe when they arrive in our city, and we do that
in order to make sure that everyone across our community is
safe. Resources are strained, but I would ask you to please do
your job and be part of passing bipartisan legislation that
would allow us to do what we want to do.
Mr. Burlison. We did. We passed H.R. 2. Well, what has been
made very clear is that we do not need to pass laws. All we
need is a new President. My time has expired.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired. They have
called for votes, but we have one last questioner--Mr. Hurd
from Colorado.
Mr. Hurd. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Good
afternoon. Mayor Johnston, it is nice to see you. Thanks for
coming.
Mr. Johnston. Good to see you.
Mr. Hurd. I have a question about Denver's policies that I
fear made it a magnet for migrants and have drawn tens of
thousands to Denver in a short amount of time. Given the strain
that is being placed on city resources, is there a limit? And
this might be similar to a question that was just asked before.
If another wave of arrivals begins, does Denver have a
contingency plan, or is the commitment to being a sanctuary
city truly open ended no matter how many come?
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, Congressman, and we have adjusted
our policies when we were facing some of the fiscal crisis
around this. We were hoping for the Senate bipartisan
immigration bill to pass, which would have provided some
resources to the interior cities. That did not, we had to make
adjustments. And so, what we have done now is we have really
focused on connecting people to work. So, those folks that
arrive, we think the most important thing is for them to be
able to work and support themselves, pay their own taxes, pay
their own rent. And so, we have run work authorization clinics
to help people get legal work authorization. If this body could
help us accelerate the rate of work authorization, we would not
need to spend any public resources at all because folks want
jobs, they could support themselves, so that has been our real
focus. The more folks we work authorized, we have been able to
then need to provide fewer resources around housing, shelter,
food, et cetera.
Mr. Hurd. Are you concerned that Denver could be reaching a
breaking point soon?
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, Congressman. We actually are
seeing dramatic drops in the arrivals since June 2024, so we
are not in a moment of crisis right now. We do not have migrant
encampments. We have closed all of our shelters. We have
actually dropped our spending on migrant supports by 90 percent
from 2024 to 2025, so our expenditures are down dramatically,
and we would love to see it stay that way.
Mr. Hurd. How about my concern about incentivizing certain
actions? Do you have any concrete evidence that sanctuary
policies have not made Denver more vulnerable to crime?
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, Congressman. We do have concrete
evidence that even as 42,000 newcomers have arrived in the city
over the last 18 months, our crime has gone down in Denver. And
so, shootings are down 24 percent. Homicide is down 17 percent.
Auto theft is down almost 30 percent. So, we have seen all of
those major drivers go down at the same time we have had new
folks arrive.
Mr. Hurd. And that is because of the sanctuary policies or
in spite of them, or what would those numbers be absent the
policies in Denver that incentivize these behaviors?
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, Congressman. We see them as
unrelated. We are continuing to make a strong stand on public
safety, we are continuing to find ways to integrate folks who
have arrived on our city in the middle of the winter with no
clothes or support, and we have been able to do both. We have
also made historic reductions in homelessness at the same time
that we were facing this. I declared an emergency on
homelessness because that was our top priority, and we have
become the largest big city in America to end the cycle of
street homelessness for veterans. So, that has been equal part
of our focus at the same time.
Mr. Hurd. So, just so I am clear on your testimony, you do
not believe that there is any evidence that the city of
Denver's policies have made Denver more vulnerable to crime?
Mr. Johnston. No, sir. I do not see any evidence that it
has.
Mr. Hurd. OK. If violent criminals are exploiting these
protections, are you willing to reconsider aspects of the
city's policies to prioritize public safety?
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, sir. We are very aggressively
pursuing violent criminals right now. In fact, we are doing it
in collaboration with many Federal agencies. We have a
R.A.V.E.N Task Force we launched, which has been focused on
disrupting gang activity. That is why we have been so
successful in managing and reducing the presence of TdA in the
city. It is how we helped reduce the presence of MS-13. So, we
have aggressive actions going, we are partnering with Federal
agents, and that is working.
Mr. Hurd. One of the concerns that I have heard, Mayor
Johnston, in Western Colorado and Colorado's 3d Congressional
District, and also in Southern Colorado, is that there are
illegal immigrants here that are coming to or that are in
Denver that are then relocating to Western and Southern
Colorado. Are you aware or can you confirm that the illegal
migrants that are in Denver, that were in Denver, have stayed
in your city and not traveled to other parts of the state?
Mr. Johnston. Thank you, sir. Obviously, as you know, when
folks arrive to Denver, whether they come from Carbondale or
Grand Junction or Chicago, we do not track where they go. It is
a free country. If they choose to move to Lakewood or to move
to Pueblo, we would not know. We just provide the emergency
services to make sure they are not freezing on the streets, and
so that is our focus. But we do not track anyone's long-term
trajectory, whether they are a native born or an immigrant.
Mr. Hurd. Would it surprise you if there were individuals
that were leaving Denver that were relocating to other parts of
Colorado?
Mr. Johnston. It would not surprise me that folks were
moving, in the same way it does not surprise us that folks are
constantly relocating to Denver from other parts of the country
as well.
Mr. Hurd. OK. Thank you very much, Mr. Johnston. Mr.
Chairman, I see my time has almost expired, and I yield the
remainder back.
Chairman Comer. Well, thank you very much. And that is it.
In closing, I want to thank our witnesses for being here today.
And believe it or not, this is the best behaved this Committee
has been all Congress, so I want to compliment my Ranking
Member, Mr. Connolly. And again, thank you for your testimony
today. I look forward to further discussion.
Now, with that and without objection, all Members have 5
legislative days within which to submit materials and
additional written questions for the witnesses, which will be
forwarded to the witnesses.
If there is no further business, without objection, the
Committee stands adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 4:06 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]