[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]





                                 ______


 
                       PART 2: COMMITTEE FUNDING
                         FOR THE 119TH CONGRESS

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               before the

                           COMMITTEE ON HOUSE
                             ADMINISTRATION

                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                           FEBRUARY 12, 2025

                               __________

      Printed for the use of the Committee on House Administration
      
      
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             U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 
 58-844            WASHINGTON : 2025                     
                           
                           
                           
                           
                   COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION

                    BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin, Chairman

LAUREL LEE, Florida, Vice Chair      JOSEPH MORELLE, New York,
BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia                 Ranking Member
H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, Virginia         TERRI A. SEWELL, Alabama
GREG MURPHY, North Carolina          NORMA TORRES, California
STEPHANIE BICE, Oklahoma             JULIE JOHNSON, Texas
MARY MILLER, Illinois
MIKE CAREY, Ohio

                      Mike Platt,  Staff Director 
                 Jamie Fleet,  Minority Staff Director 
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

                           Opening Statements

Chairman Bryan Steil, Representative from the State of Wisconsin.     1
The Honorable Glenn Thompson, Representative from the State of 
  Pennsylvania...................................................     1
    Prepared statement of Glenn Thompson.........................     4
The Honorable Angie Craig, Representative from the State of 
  Minnesota......................................................     5
    Prepared statement of Angie Craig............................     6
The Honorable Virginia Foxx, Representative from the State of 
  North Carolina.................................................    10
    Prepared statement of Virginia Foxx..........................    13
The Honorable James P. McGovern, Representative from the State of 
  Massachusetts..................................................    18
    Prepared statement of James P. McGovern......................    20
The Honorable Jodey C. Arrington, Representative from the State 
  of Texas.......................................................    26
The Honorable Brendan F. Boyle, Representative from the State of 
  Pennsylvania...................................................    27
The Honorable James Comer, Representative from the State of 
  Kentucky.......................................................    32
    Prepared statement of James Comer............................    34
The Honorable Gerald E. Connolly, Representative from the State 
  of Virginia....................................................    35
The Honorable Mike Bost, Representative from the State of 
  Illinois.......................................................    40
    Prepared statement of Mike Bost..............................    42
The Honorable Mark Takano, Representative from the State of 
  California.....................................................    45
The Honorable Brett Guthrie, Representative from the State of 
  Kentucky.......................................................    50
The Honorable Frank Pallone, Jr., Representative from the State 
  of New Jersey..................................................    51
The Honorable Jim Jordan, Representative from the State of Ohio..    57
The Honorable Jamie Raskin, Representative from the State of 
  Maryland.......................................................    57
The Honorable Mike Rogers, Representative from the State of 
  Alabama........................................................    62
The Honorable Adam Smith, Representative from the State of 
  Washington.....................................................    63


                       PART 2: COMMITTEE FUNDING



                         FOR THE 119TH CONGRESS

                              ----------                              


                           February 12, 2025

                 Committee on House Administration,
                                  House of Representatives,
                                                   Washington, D.C.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:02 a.m., in 
room 1310, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Bryan Steil 
[Chairman of the Committee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Steil, Loudermilk, Griffith, Bice, 
Lee, Miller, Morelle, and Torres.
    Staff present: Thomas March Bell, Deputy General Counsel; 
Annemarie Cake, Professional Staff/Deputy Clerk; Rachel 
Collins, Deputy General Counsel and Parliamentarian; Kristen 
Monterroso, Director of Operations and Legislative Clerk; 
Michael Platt, Staff Director; Janet Schwalb, Deputy Staff 
Director for Advice and Guidance; Jordan Wilson, Director of 
Member Services; Khalil Abboud, Minority Deputy Staff Director; 
Jamie Fleet, Minority Staff Director; and Owen Reilly, Minority 
Professional Staff.

    OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BRYAN STEIL, CHAIRMAN OF THE 
 COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM 
                           WISCONSIN

    Chairman Steil. The Committee on House Administration will 
come to order. I note that a quorum is present.
    Without objection, the chair may declare a recess at any 
time.
    I look forward to hearing from each of our Committees 
coming before us today. I would like to thank our colleagues 
for their full attention on day two of our 2-day Committee 
hearing.
    In consultation with the Ranking Member, I am going to go 
right into today's business. Today we will hear from the chair 
and Ranking Member of the eight Committees we did not hear from 
yesterday, beginning with the Committee on Agriculture. For 
each panel, we will recognize the chair and Ranking Member for 
5 minutes each, and then the majority and minority will have 5 
minutes total to ask questions. We will be yielding amongst our 
colleagues.
    I now welcome our first panel, witnesses Chairman Thompson 
and Ranking Member Craig of the Committee on Agriculture. I 
will recognize you, Chairman Thompson, for 5 minutes.

   STATEMENT OF THE HON. GLENN THOMPSON, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
            CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA

    Mr. Thompson. Well, good morning, Chairman, Ranking Member 
Morelle, and Members of the Committee. Thank you for inviting 
Ranking Member Craig and me to share the Committee on 
Agriculture's bipartisan proposed budget for the 119th 
Congress.
    Mr. Chairman, I commit to ensuring the Committee maintains 
its storied history as an effective and financially responsible 
body. We are here today to ask for what we need, not 
necessarily what we want, and to me that is important. That is 
the guiding factor in agriculture as well.
    During the 118th Congress, the Committee on Agriculture 
conducted an expansive oversight of farm bill programs through 
hearings in Washington, D.C., field listening sessions across 
the country, and countless stakeholder and Member engagements.
    This work culminated in the introduction and Committee 
passage of H.R. 8466, the Farm Food and National Security Act 
of 2024. The funding increases authorized by the Committee on 
Administration and adopted by the House for the 118th Congress 
were vital in supporting the substantial staff, travel, and 
administrative needs of the Committee in carrying out this 
work.
    Where Congress was unable to enact a comprehensive farm 
bill reauthorization during the last year, a 1-year extension 
was enacted in order for us to complete our work. Our Committee 
has planned an equally extensive workload to ensure a 5-year 
farm bill, one that meets the needs of our producers and our 
Nation's entire agricultural value chain is enacted.
    As many of you know, the farm bill has required a 
tremendous effort. Ongoing and evolving impacts related to 
supply chain, instability abroad, trade, and fluctuations in 
commodity prices and import costs further complicate our work.
    Highly qualified personnel are imperative to our 
preparation and execution of hearings, listening sessions, 
roundtables, program audits, and accounting, legislative 
drafting, and economic modeling and forecasting.
    As we have shown, the reauthorization process also requires 
extensive travel on a bipartisan basis, including farm bill 
listening sessions across the country, among other activities 
outside of the District of Columbia.
    Additionally, you know, there are multiple reauthorizations 
and legislative priorities outside of the farm bill, including 
but not limited to budget reconciliation instructions, 
Commodity Futures Trading Commission reauthorization, Grain 
Standards Act reauthorization, development of legislation 
related to digital assets, and oversight of USDA's delivery of 
over $30 billion in economic and disaster assistance.
    Each of these responsibilities require talented staff and 
extensive travel outside of Washington, D.C., to hear from the 
individuals impacted by every decision we make from farm to 
nutrition, research to rural development.
    As shared in the Committee's questionnaire, we are seeking 
a 5-percent increase for staff salaries and related activities. 
These additional resources will allow both the majority and the 
minority to attract, maintain, and reward staff, something of 
extreme importance to both of us. The institutional knowledge 
of the Committee and its Members relies heavily on the 
expertise, education, and diversity of the staff serving it.
    Despite recent increases, Committee budgets have not kept 
pace with our outsized inflation. This continues to plague our 
ability to attract and retain highly specialized employees.
    We certainly have a lofty agenda ahead and will work 
tirelessly to enact that agenda with tenacity and fiscal 
responsibility.
    We appreciate your consideration of this request, and I am 
happy to answer any questions.
    [The prepared statement of Representative Thompson 
follows:]

      PREPARED STATEMENT OF REPRESENTATIVE GLENN THOMPSON
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    Chairman Steil. Thank you very much, Chairman Thompson.
    Ranking Member Craig, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

STATEMENT OF THE HON. ANGIE CRAIG, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS 
                  FROM THE STATE OF MINNESOTA

    Ms. Craig. Thank you so much, Chairman Steil, Ranking 
Member Morelle, and Members of the House Administration 
Committee. I am grateful to be here to talk to you about the 
House Ag Committee's 119th Congress budget request.
    I look forward to working with Chairman Thompson on all of 
the work that we have ahead of us here in the Congress. As you 
all know and have heard from the Chairman this morning, we need 
to work together to pass a farm bill after a couple of 
extensions. We also expect work on reconciliation. As Chairman 
Thompson has expressed, work remains on the CFTC and 
legislation surrounding digital assets.
    As we all know, our staffs are key to our success in this 
institution. To that end, as we shared with the Committee, we 
request a 5-percent budget increase. These resources will allow 
us to attract and retain experienced and knowledgeable staff.
    I also appreciate the increase that the Committee received 
last Congress, but our work has not let up. We still need to 
pass a farm bill. We also expect some more farm bill listening 
sessions to adequately inform our work, and it is incredibly 
important to me that we do those on a bipartisan basis.
    I appreciate the longstanding history of the majority 
working with the minority on sharing resources for the minority 
to accommodate our priorities and hope that relationship 
continues in the 119th Congress.
    We appreciate your consideration of this request, and I 
look forward to any questions.
    With that, I yield the remainder of my time.
    [The prepared statement of Representative Craig follows:]

        PREPARED STATEMENT OF REPRESENTATIVE ANGIE CRAIG
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    Ms. Lee.
    [Presiding.] Thank you, Ranking Member Craig.
    At this time, we will go to questions. We will have 5 
minutes for the majority and then 5 minutes for the minority in 
total.
    I will start by recognizing myself. We are asking each 
Committee that comes before us the same question as it relates 
to cybersecurity.
    Mr. Chairman, will you and the Ranking Member commit to 
having your systems administrators meet with the House's CIO 
team in the first quarter to discuss cybersecurity issues?
    Mr. Thompson. Absolutely. My team is ready and willing to 
meet with the House's CIO team about cybersecurity.
    For the record, our IT team also participate in weekly 
meetings with CAO and other Committees to discuss technology 
updates and cybersecurity concerns. The IT team responds 
promptly to all alerts from House cybersecurity, ensuring 
issues are addressed without delay. Our Committee staff 
complete annual cybersecurity training to stay informed about 
the latest threats and reinforce the best practices in cyber 
defense.
    Ms. Lee. Thank you.
    Ranking Member Craig, will you also commit to that meeting 
with the CIO to discuss cybersecurity in the first quarter?
    Ms. Craig. Absolutely. We would be happy to meet in the 
first quarter. Our staff as well take cybersecurity incredibly 
important, and we also participate, obviously, in those weekly 
meetings today with the CI--CAO.
    Ms. Lee. Thank you.
    At this time I will recognize Representative Miller.
    Mrs. Miller. Thank you.
    I want to note the hard work that the Agriculture Committee 
does to support such a vital piece of our country's economy and 
well-being. Chairman Thompson, I appreciate that you call us 
essential America.
    In your budget request, you mention that additional funds 
are necessary to recruit and retain highly talented staff. This 
must be a challenge with the new administration and the FDA 
attracting staff. How do you plan on utilizing increased 
funding to recruit or retain these qualified and talented 
individuals?
    Mr. Thompson. Well, Congresswoman, I appreciate the 
question, and you are spot on with your observations. You know, 
when it comes to the talent of agriculture, I think the staff 
within both the majority and the minority are among the best in 
the Nation and so--with any administration coming in, highly 
recruited.
    The increase that we requested will allow us to fund raises 
for existing staff and fill our vacant slots. In several areas, 
we have senior staff that have already departed for the 
administration. This Nation will be well served by them having 
the administration but leaves a big vacuum within our Committee 
staff.
    To fill these slots with similar experience or 
institutional knowledge, this may require recruiting from the 
private sector at a senior level. This is not a time when we 
are losing senior staff, unfortunately.
    Given I think the timing and the necessity of getting this 
5-year farm bill and digital assets across the line and all of 
the things that we have before us, you know, it may require 
recruiting, again, a senior level.
    Mrs. Miller. Thank you.
    I noticed that you are requesting $438,500 for travel, 
which is over twice the amount the Committee spent on travel 
last Congress. With travel being a main priority for the 
Committee this Congress, what do you hope that you and other 
Members of your Committee will gain from these farm bill 
listening sessions?
    Mr. Thompson. Well, it is significant. Our farm bill is--to 
approach things in what I call a tripartisan way, we need to be 
working together, and I think our Ranking Member and myself and 
our teams collectively do a really good job at that.
    We also need to bring the voices or rural America, quite 
frankly, every American because of the nutrition perspective of 
the Agriculture Committee to the table. We need those 
perspectives in order to determine what American agriculture, 
what Americans, maybe not what they want but what they need.
    Our work, the farm bills in particular, are created from 
the voices of stakeholders outside the Beltway. Often we need 
to travel to places to see crop and livestock diversity, issues 
facing forest health and wildfire, visit research facilities 
and land grant institutions.
    We have 13 Members on our Committee collectively who are 
new to Congress and many others who may not be aware of 
regional differences and farm and resource production. It is 
important for them to ditch their dress shoes and put on their 
work boots and see firsthand the challenges in rural America, 
or, as you know, I like to call it essential America.
    We need continued engagement with rural America during all 
phases of the farm bill process: drafting, markup, floor 
consideration, and conference. Just as important, we need to 
engage stakeholders directly during implementation of the new 
farm bill. Lots of work ahead of us.
    Additionally, Members and staff will need continued 
engagement at conferences and meetings across the country. As 
noted, this goes well beyond the farm bill, as we have many 
other policy priorities, including digital assets legislation.
    Mrs. Miller. Thank you, Chairman.
    I yield back.
    Ms. Lee. The gentlelady yields back.
    At this time, I recognize Ranking Member Morelle for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Mr. Chairman, you cannot always get what you want, but if 
you try sometimes, well, you might find you get what you need. 
You have come to the right place. Welcome.
    To the Ranking Member, my good friend, Ms. Craig, thank you 
for being here.
    I want to start the tradition in the House has been the 
dividing of dollars two-thirds/one-third. Mr. Chair, will you 
continue to commit to making sure that Ms. Craig has access, 
independent access to the one-third budget that she is entitled 
to?
    Mr. Thompson. Yes, absolutely. Our Committee follows the 
two-third and one-third split for payroll budget, and the 
majority controls the operating budget, and we have never had 
an issue with obtaining supplies or equipment for either side.
    Mr. Morelle. Ms. Craig, are you comfortable with that?
    Ms. Craig. I am comfortable with it and can confirm that GT 
and I are off to a great staff, and the staffs work very well 
together, and we feel well supported.
    Mr. Morelle. Great. Thank you.
    I would say I know it is a surprise sometimes to people. I 
am not sure why this is the case, but New York State, the No. 1 
industry is still agriculture, and if you come from upstate New 
York, as I do, it is a very, very significant part of what we 
do.
    I appreciate you mentioning also the nutrition programs, 
which may not be on the top of minds as it relates to 
agriculture, but it is certainly a big part of what you do, as 
well as regulating the commodities markets and the financial 
aspects of those instruments that bear on your responsibility.
    You know, given--and I spoke to this yesterday, and I will 
not go into a long thing here, but, you know, it is really 
critically important for us to assert article I 
responsibilities here, oversight. We are the policymakers under 
the Supreme Court's rulings on the Chevron deference, which 
really puts greater responsibilities on the Congress to be much 
more detailed in policies as we pass them and not to--and give 
deference to the various agencies.
    Tell me how your requested budget provides you with the 
ability to make sure you are doing both policymaking in a 
detailed way in line with the Chevron decision, as well as 
article I responsibilities for oversight.
    Mr. Thompson. Well, Mr. Ranking Member, to me, when it 
comes to performing our duties and responsibilities under 
article I, I really do not care who is in the White House. I am 
very proud to be a part of Congress. Under article I, the 
checks and balances the great Nation has, you know, oversight 
is an incredibly important role, and we plan to maintain the 
robust oversight activities of the 118th Congress.
    As Chairman, I have given all of our Subcommittees the 
responsibility of overseeing the areas of their respective 
jurisdictions. To me, what better place to place oversight. 
These individuals, when they are placed on this Committee, as 
they prepare to perform their duties, they become the experts 
in these different areas of jurisdiction. I think they are in 
the best position to really have a meaningful oversight 
performance of their duties because of that.
    Instead of siloing oversight into one corner of the 
Committee, the responsibility is spread out to the issue area 
experts. Certainly, with the Chevron deference, you know, that 
is a part, as we go forward, to see what now becomes--any 
necessary changes or anything that has changed as a result of 
that Supreme Court ruling would be caught up in that oversight.
    With the additional funding to hire more staff, I will be 
adding to the oversight capacity of the Committee.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you.
    Ms. Craig, any thoughts that you have on this subject?
    Ms. Craig. Simply that I think we have to accomplish our 
goal of oversight of USDA, and that includes ensuring that 
congressionally appropriated funding is distributed by USDA, 
which, of course, there are some challenges right now with.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you.
    Just in closing, Mr. Chair, particularly in regards to Ms. 
Miller's question about field hearings and moving out around 
the country, as you have done it so far, have you been 
comfortable with the coordination with the United States 
Capitol Police and Sergeant at Arms? Because we are, obviously, 
both sides of the aisle, very concerned about the threat levels 
against Members and staff.
    Mr. Thompson. Absolutely. Our Members are not going to be 
able to perform their constitutional duties if they do not feel 
safe. Our Committee staff works with Capitol Police on all 
local security issues to ensure our meeting space is secure, 
properly prepared, you know, no blocked exits, all the 
considerations that, quite frankly, the Capitol Police and our 
Sergeant at Arms can guide us in and really to secure our 
meeting space, ensure our meeting space is secure and that we 
follow all suggested security protocols.
    We also work with them and the Sergeant at Arms' Office to 
ensure our Members and staff are safe at field hearings, 
listening sessions. They have done a great job coordinating 
with local law enforcement and pre-assessing our security 
circumstances but assessing also any security threats for our 
Members.
    Mr. Morelle. Well, before I yield, I am sure the chair and 
I would both like to be apprised if there are any challenges 
that you have in that regard. It is something we obviously have 
spent a lot of time talking about and thinking about here. 
Thanks so much.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Thompson. Thank you.
    Chairman Steil.
    [Presiding.] Thank you both for being here. In particular, 
I would just like to thank you for the coordinated work between 
the Agriculture Committee and the Financial Services Committee, 
in particular, in the digital asset space. Subcommittee 
Chairman Johnson and Ranking Member Davis have both been 
engaged in that and appreciate the cross-committee work.
    We appreciate you and your testimony today.
    We will pause while the witness panel exits and the new 
arrives.
    Mr. Thompson. All right. Thank you very much.
    Chairman Steil. We now welcome our next panel of witnesses, 
Chairwoman Foxx and Ranking Member McGovern from the Committee 
on Rules.
    We are giving 5 minutes to the chair and to the Ranking 
Member. Then we will do 5 minutes of questions total for the 
majority and minority, yielding amongst our colleagues.
    We will dive right in and recognize you, Chairwoman Foxx, 
for 5 minutes.

   STATEMENT OF THE HON. VIRGINIA FOXX, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
           CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA

    Ms. Foxx. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member 
Morelle, and Members of the Committee. Thank you for inviting 
us to testify on Committee funding for the Rules Committee for 
the 119th Congress.
    I thank Ranking Member McGovern for the welcoming kind 
words afforded to me since our organizing. Even more, I thank 
him and the staff for the constructive, professional, and 
business-first approach that they have maintained during the 
transition.
    I am humbled and honored to serve as chairwoman of the 
Committee on Rules. I thank Speaker Johnson for placing his 
trust and faith in me to lead this esteemed Committee.
    As I said at the time of my appointment, the American 
people gave President Trump and congressional Republicans a 
mandate in November to turn our Republic around and move toward 
a brighter and more prosperous future. Our Republican majority 
in the people's House will achieve that end and will deliver 
upon Speaker Johnson's and President Trump's agenda with 
diligence and expediency, and we welcome our Democrat 
colleagues to join us.
    The Rules Committee on both sides has a long documented 
history of respect for the House and its traditions. We respect 
each other's Committee Members despite what one might see in 
the middle of a hearing. The foundation for this posture can be 
found in the very dynamics that we talk about in this hearing.
    In short, the Ranking Member and I together request a 2.5-
percent increase in funding for the Rules Committee this 
Congress. This comes on the heels of a flat funding request 
last Congress. To be crystal clear, this translates to an 
annual increase of just over $100,000.
    A couple of media outlets insinuated that we are seeking an 
$8 million increase. That figure is actually the total budget 
figure for the 119th Congress. It is simply a case of sloppy 
reporting.
    As you all know, the Committee on Rules retains one of the 
smallest budgets in the House of Representatives. This is the 
case despite the fact that, without the Rules Committee, the 
House of Representatives would be rendered inoperable; the 
business we conduct would be at a standstill.
    Indeed, everything from the creation of the Rules of the 
House to the creation of select committees to the week's 
legislative agenda to the granular decisions of minutes of 
debate on an amendment is all predicated on a fully functioning 
Rules Committee.
    While we may have a small scale in terms of budget 
manpower, our workflow is immense, and the timelines prove to 
be intense.
    As you all know, the agenda for the week can turn on a 
dime. A national emergency or an environmental catastrophe or a 
matter of national security may bring emergent measures to the 
floor with little notice. However, we cannot retain the 
flexibility or nimbleness required without capacity. Meaning 
capacity to keep staff and resources on hand for eventualities.
    Payroll continues to serve as the Committee's main factor 
reflected in our budgeting. In addition, to tackle the unique 
workflow, the Committee invested in a custom, automated system. 
Without the system, our ability to process the thousands of 
amendments we receive over the course of a Congress would grind 
to a halt.
    Much of this maintenance is billed hourly, and we are 
limited in our ability to predict maintenance cost for this 
workflow. To give you a picture of the needs of this workflow, 
this Committee processed over 1,390 amendments in the last 
Congress, the 118th. This is well over the nearly 8,700 
processed in the 117th Congress, a historic 62-percent 
increase.
    While the increase we are seeking might be modest, it is 
necessary. Our ability to deliver the House's business as well 
as the Republican Conference's commitment to maximum 
inclusiveness in the legislative process is fully at stake.
    Please understand that, as a notoriously frugal Member of 
Congress, this budget request came with the requisite diligence 
and thoughtfulness that you might expect from a Foxx 
Chairwomanship.
    Thank you for your time and consideration, and I am pleased 
to answer any questions you may have.
    Thank you. I yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Representative Foxx follows:]

       PREPARED STATEMENT OF REPRESENTATIVE VIRGINIA FOXX
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    Chairman Steil. You are notoriously frugal, but that is a 
good attribute, Chairwoman Foxx.
    Ranking Member McGovern, you are recognized.

 STATEMENT OF THE HON. JAMES P. MCGOVERN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
            CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS

    Mr. McGovern. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member 
Morelle, and Members of the Committee on House Administration. 
I am pleased to be joining Chairwoman Foxx today in presenting 
our request for funding for the Committee on Rules for the 
119th Congress. I cannot believe I am about to say this, but I 
agree with her.
    Our Committee is unique. Our primary mission is not to 
write laws nor conduct direct oversight but, rather, to 
facilitate the work of all other Committees and of the House 
itself. We take the responsibility of keeping this institution 
functioning very seriously, and I believe that we have 
succeeded in being a resource for all Members and staff serving 
here.
    A big part of that success has been our ability to hire and 
to retain our extraordinary staff on both sides of the aisle. 
We have also succeeded by keeping our disagreements where they 
belong, on matters of substance.
    When it comes to the logistics of running the Committee and 
working within the budget allocated to us, I look forward to 
continuing our long tradition of being good partners across the 
aisle. I am also grateful that Chairwoman Foxx is continuing 
our Committee's long tradition of providing the minority full 
control over one-third of our overall budget.
    I strongly support the request of this Committee from the 
Chairwoman that we be allocated 2.5 percent more funding for 
each of the next 2 years as we were provided in each of the 
last 3 years. These fundings are vital to allow us to continue 
supporting this institution, from its leadership to its 
Committees to the staffs of every single Member.
    While that may sound like a sizable increase, it really is 
not because of how small our budget is to start with. Our 
budget is less than half of the average Committee budget, and 
the Committee with the highest budget has a budget nearly four 
times ours.
    We requested and received flat funding for each of the past 
2 years because we crunched the numbers and did not actually 
need more to do our work, but now we do. Since we last received 
an increase, other Committees have had their budgets increased 
by an average of $925,000 each. We are now asking for about a 
tenth of the increase that other Committees have already 
received over the past 3 years.
    As Ranking Member Morelle and Congresswoman Torres know 
from personal experience, and as Representative Griffith will 
now get to see up close, our work does not run on a schedule 
limited by business hours. We know long days and late nights 
better than anyone else in these halls.
    Further, our workload has grown significantly in recent 
years and looks to continue growing. The Chairwoman mentioned 
that, in just one Congress, we saw a 62-percent increase in 
amendment submissions. What is even more striking to me is 
that, prior to that increase, the rate of submissions had 
already doubled since I first became Ranking Member.
    Our Committee has made major modernization and efficiency 
improvements over the past few years to be able to handle the 
incredible amendment volume on a clerical level, but we still 
need adequate professional staff to be able to actually review 
all of these ideas or make quality recommendations to our 
Members about how each should be treated.
    Last Congress, we used every dollar of our minority 
allotment. If we are flat funded, our inflation-adjusted budget 
will be 7 percent less than it was 3 years ago. We simply 
cannot recruit and retain the staff we need to support the 
legislative functions of the entire House at that level.
    With the vital functions we perform for the House and every 
other Committee depending on our fast and accurate work, this 
is a very modest and reasonable request and a necessary one.
    I thank each of you for your time and attention, and I am 
happy to answer any questions that you may have and defer any 
hard ones to the Chairwoman.
    [The prepared statement of Representative McGovern 
follows:]

         PREPARED STATEMENT OF REPRESENTATIVE MCGOVERN 
GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT


    Chairman Steil. We thank you both for your testimony.
    I yield to myself for 5 minutes for questions. One question 
we have asked every chair and Ranking Member is, will you 
commit to having your systems administrator meet with the 
House's CIO team in the first quarter to discuss cybersecurity?
    Ms. Foxx. Absolutely, yes.
    Mr. McGovern. Yes.
    Chairman Steil. Thank you.
    I will yield to Mr. Griffith, also a Member of the Rules 
Committee, for questions.
    Mr. Griffith. Thank you very much.
    Madam Chair, you covered this in your statement, but I do 
think it is worth underlining. The Rules Committee's request 
for a 2.5-percent budget increase, can you tell us how much 
that is in real U.S. dollars?
    Ms. Foxx. It is just over $100,000. As I said, somehow or 
another the press has not reported accurately what our request 
is, and I would like to make sure that it is out there 
correctly.
    Mr. Griffith. All right.
    Now, the Rules' electronic database is crucial for 
submitting and processing amendments for consideration on the 
House floor, and you noted in your budget request that it could 
use some improvements. What potential updates to the electronic 
database could additional funds address?
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Griffith, and we are glad to have 
you on the Committee, and I think you will see this, as Mr. 
McGovern said.
    The Committee utilizes a very specific and unique database 
to assist in managing our workflow. The system is called 
Committee on Rules Electronic Database, or the CORE database. 
We refer to it simply as CORE. While CORE has proved very 
effective and extremely valuable, there is ample opportunity to 
improve it.
    The most acute change that the staff is exploring is 
allowing for multiple editors to work congruently and in real 
time. CORE lacks that functionality now, but gaining it would 
increase efficiency considerably.
    Additionally, the Committee will continue to look at ways 
to integrate CORE with the pipeline of technology products, 
like xPub, and seek to refine our database management 
capabilities to ensure the Committee can handle the massive 
increase in amendments we have experienced. Of course, that 
costs a little bit of money to do the upgrade. I think 
everybody understands that.
    Mr. Griffith. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Can you tell us, as you were putting the budget submission 
together, the process and what the main consideration was when 
you were preparing this request?
    Ms. Foxx. Well, again, we need to be able to process the 
amendments that are coming in. As Mr. McGovern says, we meet at 
many different times of the day and night, and the main thing 
is to serve the other Members as efficiently as we possibly 
can. Nobody likes having to be working late at night, and if we 
can use technology to make it better for everybody, that is 
what we are interested in doing.
    Mr. Griffith. Yes, ma'am. Of course, you want to keep the 
good staff that you have.
    Ms. Foxx. Absolutely.
    Mr. Griffith. I have to tell you, Mr. Chairman, I have been 
very impressed with minority staff. I make comments on the 
weekend, and they have got it ready for Rules meeting to, you 
know, push back.
    I just have to say I enjoy debating. It is not personal, 
but the Committee has some really good intellectual debates, 
and I appreciate that.
    With that, I will yield back to you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize the Ranking Member for 5 minutes of 
questions.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Chairwoman Foxx and Ranking Member 
McGovern, for being here. I am only sorry that Mr. Griffith and 
I did not get a chance to serve on the Rules Committee 
together. I hold out the 4 years I served on the Rules 
Committee as a joyous time to be in Congress. I enjoyed every 
minute under the leadership of then Chair McGovern and Ranking 
Member Cole.
    I mean this sincerely: It is an amazing opportunity, to 
your point, Mr. Griffith, just the give and take and not being 
limited to 5 minutes in the discussion. I think it is really an 
opportunity to learn a great deal about legislation before the 
House.
    I will say something--I do not have much in the way of 
questions because Mr. McGovern has already referenced one of 
the questions I asked, which is whether the minority will be 
given the independence to spend their third of the budget as 
they see fit. In many ways, the article I responsibilities of 
oversight and authorization does not really apply to Rules 
because you have a unique role in the House.
    I would say this, and I am probably unique, I think the 
Rules Committee probably needs a bigger budget. Now, maybe next 
year you will come with a bigger one. I think, given the number 
of amendments now being submitted--and I do not know; I would 
love to ask, and I do not know, Ms. Foxx, if you have the 
historical data. I think, even just my 4 years, the growth in 
the number of amendments submitted to the Rules Committee was 
growing I think exponentially.
    I do not know if you have--even as I recall, I think it was 
the NDAA in particular, if anybody has the number of amendments 
submitted, for instance, on the NDAA in the last several years, 
I would be just curious for the record if you know that, or if 
you just know it in total how many amendments have been 
submitted.
    Mr. McGovern. Well, I will just say, a few years ago, as I 
mentioned in my statement, the number of submissions doubled, 
and it has gone up like 67 percent since then. We can get you 
the exact numbers.
    20 years ago, it was about 100 amendments on average on the 
NDAA. Now it is over 1,000. Look, part of I think what we are 
both saying here is that we are blessed with incredible staff. 
Mr. Griffith acknowledged that on both the majority and the 
minority side. These people work unbelievably hard and long, 
long hours. We want to retain them.
    I mean, it is important to have people who have an 
institutional knowledge of the way this place works, and, you 
know, again, we want to keep them here. It is a value to all of 
us. You know, again, I would echo what the Chairwoman said. I 
mean, what we are asking for is very modest, but it is 
necessary.
    Ms. Foxx. I would like to express my agreement with Mr. 
McGovern today. You are getting us to agree again on the staff. 
We will get you, Mr. Morelle, the exact numbers, but I agree 
with what Mr. McGovern said. It has gone from a very small 
number, like around 100, to over 1,000, and we will get you the 
exact number of amendments.
    Mr. Morelle. Yes. I use it primarily just to make a point 
here, which is, you know, at a time when we are I think as 
Americans--and it does not matter which side of this debate you 
are on--but it is clear that the role of Congress vis-a-vis the 
executive--not just because of the current occupant of the 
White House but the Supreme Court in the Loper Bright decision, 
among other decisions last year, knocked out the Chevron 
deference, which means Congress is going to have to do more 
work. It is not only going to be able to send up--and I have to 
say--I am sorry. I am taking more time than I usually do, Mr. 
Chair, but I will just make a point because this is such an 
important Committee in my view.
    When I came from the State legislature to Congress, I was, 
frankly, surprised at how much detail we had worked on when I 
was at the State level in legislation. It was very specific, 
often giving powers to the commissioners, which is like the 
Secretaries here, but much more detailed.
    I was frankly surprised when I came to Congress how much 
latitude was given to agencies on rulemaking. I do not think 
that is one side or the other. That is just--and Chevron 
deference, the lack of it now means that burden will fall more 
to Congress than it ever has before.
    In order to do that, as Members who engage in the process 
need to make amendments on legislation, needs to be considered 
by you and, I agree, it is an amazing staff that I have high 
regard for, but institutionally--and I have no power to do 
this, so I am just using my 5 minutes to make a paid political 
advertisement--I do think, for our responsibilities as an 
institution, we need to equip people with more resources to be 
able to do their job adequately to protect the interest of the 
American people.
    Whichever side of it we are on, I just think this is really 
important. Hopefully, next year, we will be looking at--or 2 
years from now----
    Mr. McGovern. If I can just give you the numbers, in Fiscal 
Year 2020, on the NDAA, 683 amendments were submitted; in 
Fiscal Year 2024, it was 1,558.
    Mr. Morelle. It is astonishing in some way.
    Mr. McGovern. I want to echo what you just said. If you 
want to give us more, you can.
    Mr. Morelle. It is beyond my powers, my mere powers as a 
mortal, but I just think--it gave me a chance to make a speech, 
too, so I always appreciate that.
    With that, thank you both for being here.
    I yield back.
    Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
    We appreciate both of your testimony today. It helps guide 
us through the budget allocation process.
    The Committee will pause while the witness panel exits.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I really want to 
memorialize what Mr. Morelle said about the role of Congress 
and oversight of the executive branch. I think that has been--
we have had difficulty with that, and it is so wonderful, Mr. 
Morelle, to hear you express those comments.
    Mr. McGovern. I love all of this agreement.
    Chairman Steil. You are welcomed back to the Committee on 
House Administration any time.
    All right. We reconvene as we welcome our next panel of 
witnesses. Chairman Arrington, Ranking Member Boyle, we 
appreciate both of you being here today. I know it is a 
uniquely busy day on the Committee on Budget. Obviously, today 
we are talking about the allocation of funds to fund the 
Committee to do their work. Budget but in a different context.
    We are giving each of you 5 minutes for an opening 
statement. The minority and majority will then have 5 minutes 
in total to ask questions, yielding between our colleagues.
    We will get moving right away, and I will recognize 
Chairman Arrington for 5 minutes.

 STATEMENT OF THE HON. JODEY C. ARRINGTON, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
                CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS

    Mr. Arrington. I thank the Chairman and the Members of this 
Committee. I will keep this short and sweet, except for the 
fiscal State of affairs for our Nation and the people's 
Government is not sweet. It is bitter. It is extremely bitter 
by the way.
    We are robbing the private sector of $2 trillion now 
annually. That is the deficit. That is a massive drag on our 
growth potential, jobs, wages all affected by that. It is also 
massively upward pressure on inflation, which absolutely is the 
most regressive tax on working families.
    It also keeps interest rates high, long-term interest rates 
specifically. People are going to--that American dream of 
owning a home becomes more and more elusive. It is evaporating 
before our eyes because of the degeneration of our fiscal 
strength, which affects the economy.
    Then, last, let me be clear: If we do not change the 
current fiscal trajectory we are on, with wartime level 
deficits, pandemic levels of deficits at 7 percent GDP, 
surpassing World War II levels of indebtedness at over 120 
percent gross debt to GDP, and interest payments on the debt at 
almost a trillion dollars, which is more than we are paying out 
both to fund the Defense Department of the greatest military in 
the world and more than we are paying out for Medicare benefits 
to our blessed fellow Americans who happen to be seniors, we 
cannot sustain it. If we do not intervene now, then really bad 
things will happen. The biggest thing that I am concerned about 
is a sovereign debt crisis, where those who lend us that $2 
trillion annually that is now $36 trillion in debt, they will 
not lend us that money anymore to pay for all these programs 
and promises that we have made to the American people.
    Quite frankly, it affects the things that I care the most 
about, like we have to defend our country's interests. We have 
to provide for the common defense. Even my Democrat colleague 
has interesting programs that are in jeopardy because of our 
fragile fiscal situation. The time is now for us to begin 
turning the ship. We cannot dig out of a $36 trillion debt hole 
overnight.
    The biggest issue is not the dollars and cents that I am 
throwing at you right now. It is the moral question that our 
first President and father of this country commented on 
emphatically in his farewell address: Do not put on another 
generation of Americans a debt you are not willing to pay for.
    It is an issue, Mr. Chairman, of morality, and so, 
therefore, we have to lead by example. I think, the last few 
years, at least the last Congress, we have asked to keep our 
budgets flat, even though the activities have gone way up.
    We have passed more bills collectively with my friend and 
Ranking Member to fix the broken budget process than any Budget 
Committee since the 1974 Budget Act that created this 
Committee. We are doing good work together.
    We have certainly disagreements and some strong 
disagreements, but we are doing the people's work to make this 
process work so that the outcomes are more responsible, so that 
we are all more accountable to what we are doing to our 
children and what we are doing to our fellow Americans' country 
and their future.
    I request we keep this flat. We will keep the ratio that we 
have agreed to in the tradition of working together. That is my 
request, Mr. Chairman.
    Not so short of a testimony, but thank you for lending me 
your ear.
    Chairman Steil. Mr. Arrington yields back.
    Mr. Boyle is recognized.

  STATEMENT OF THE HON. BRENDAN F. BOYLE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
            CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA

    Mr. Boyle. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Ranking Member. I 
have to leave in literally 1 minute. By the way, that is a 
practice I would recommend to all of you for your future 
witnesses if you want to keep them short. Make sure they are 
scheduled when they have to be somewhere else in approximately 
a minute.
    I will just say this, because we are going to have--there 
is a lot that my good friend, Jodey, our Chairman, who I know 
is working very hard right now and is a passionate believer in 
those things in which he believes, there is a lot of what he 
said that I would like to respond to. I will not take that 
opportunity here because I think we are going to have plenty of 
time together, spend some quality time together tomorrow.
    I will say I am very proud of the friendship and the 
relationship that we have built. We came into the Committee 
with a preexisting friendship but have really gotten to know 
each other seemingly very well over the last 2 years, and we 
have vigorous disagreements. I think you will see that on 
display tomorrow.
    At the same time, even with that, I agree with the 
Chairman. We have more pieces of legislation passed in our 
Committee last term than I think in the history of the Budget 
Committee, which dates back exactly a half century. It is a 
credit to his leadership as chair, and I hope can take part of 
some of that credit as Ranking Member.
    I hope and believe and other Members have said that we have 
set a tone of seriousness and civility even while we both have 
passionately held views.
    I accept that, again, we will have a flatlined budget year 
over year. I am confident that we will be able to exercise our 
responsibilities as a Committee, a Committee that really has 
increased in terms of its activity relative to where it was at 
any time that I have been here.
    Finally, let me say this: I really want to thank my staff 
director, Greg Waring; the majority staff director, Gary 
Andres; Paige, Erica, and the entire Republican and Democratic 
staffs. They work very hard. I know they are working very hard 
right now and will be over the course of the next couple days. 
It is a pleasure to work with them.
    I think we have built a great camaraderie on this 
Committee, and I am very proud of the work that we have done.
    With that, I will yield back.
    Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
    I will recognize myself for 5 minutes for asking questions. 
I know the Ranking Member needs to step out.
    I have asked every chair and Ranking Member one question 
out of the gate, which is a simple yes-or-no question. Quick 
yes or no question for you and the Ranking Member. We will 
submit it to the Ranking Member. Whether or not you are willing 
to commit to having your systems administrator meet with the 
House's CIO team in the first quarter to discuss cybersecurity 
issues?
    Mr. Arrington. Absolutely and of course.
    Chairman Steil. In your budget, as noted, you are putting 
your money where your mouth is, zero-percent increase. The 
Ranking Member and I have had conversations about the 
importance of Chevron deference, about making sure that the 
House is doing its job.
    Uniquely in this Congress, where not only will you have the 
work of the traditional work of the Budget Committee but with a 
heightened attention with reconciliation coming forward, do you 
believe that you will then have the resources knowing the 
extensive expertise required amongst your staff without a 
budget increase?
    Mr. Arrington. I believe we have the resources from our 
Committee and our Committee operation. What I am not sure is if 
we have the political will yet, but I will report that out I 
think in another venue.
    Chairman Steil. Maybe to build on that, there is a handful 
of vacancies currently at the Committee. Do you anticipate 
filling those out?
    Mr. Arrington. Mr. Chairman, by the way, when I say 
``political,'' that is not from the staff. That is from the 
Members.
    Chairman Steil. Absolutely.
    I will follow up on the question. There is a handful of 
vacancies on the staff slots. There are two aspects of that, 
right? There is the staff slots and then actually whether or 
not those are filled, which, obviously, impacts the budget. Do 
you anticipate that those staff slots will be filled throughout 
this Congress? Are you facing any challenges?
    We see this with the administration picking people up, 
private sector. Often we find it difficult for Committees----
    Mr. Arrington. Yes, it is hard to keep good talent with 
what we pay versus the private sector. We have to have the 
resources like any operation, any organization to make sure 
that we are buttoned up, that the numbers are accurate, that we 
are executing, and that goes for the Ranking Member and myself.
    Look, when you commit to holding things flat for the last 
few years here--it would be 2 years and then going forward for 
another 4--by the way, if we held discretionary spending flat 
for 4 years, we would save $1.2 trillion over the next 10 
years. We hold the people's budget flat for 2 years, and it is 
half of that, over a half a trillion dollars.
    We want to lead by example, and if that means we have to 
make some difficult choices on staffing, we will do that, but 
you have got to have the teamwork to make the dream work, 
right, and you have to have the right talent.
    We will look at that among other ways to save money, but we 
will not do it at the expense of being able to execute on the 
activities that we have been entrusted with.
    Chairman Steil. Absolutely.
    I look to my colleagues, if either would like to ask a 
question. I will yield to Mr. Griffith.
    Mr. Griffith. I am going to go historical on you. You 
referenced Washington's comments. Do you think that he made 
those comments because the greatest crisis we ever had with our 
finances occurred under the Articles of Confederation when the 
Continental became worthless, and we had a hard time paying our 
debts? We did eventually get them paid.
    Washington would have witnessed all of that. Do you think 
that is part of why he made the comment you just referenced?
    Mr. Arrington. I am certain of it. In fact, he referenced 
that, when you are in times of war, you have to take on some 
debt to fight for your freedom and for the preservation of the 
Republic. He foresaw that that might happen again in the 
future, but he said, when that time has come and gone, you must 
quickly shed that debt, lest you put on the next generation a 
debt burden you are not willing to bear yourselves.
    I see $36 trillion in debt. I see $21 trillion added to 
that. That is the projections from CBO over the next 10 years. 
We are doing exactly what George Washington warned us against. 
The level of deficit to GDP is wartime, but we are in relative 
peace and prosperity.
    What if we have a shock to the system, another pandemic, a 
conflict, a major power conflict? I am very concerned.
    Now is the time to get us in a position of strength, not 
just for us and the generations today but those who are 
counting on us to pass this down better than we found it.
    Mr. Griffith. I thank the gentleman. I yield back.
    Chairman Steil. Mr. Griffith yields back.
    I yield back.
    I recognize the Ranking Member for 5 minutes of questions.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for being here. I am 
sorry Mr. Boyle had to leave. My first question was going to be 
I wonder how long it would take to wipe the smile off his face 
after the Eagles win, but I guess he is not here to answer 
that. We all just have to suffer.
    Mr. Arrington. I can only hope that that win will have good 
will carried over to our budget resolution markup.
    Mr. Morelle. Let us hope. Let us hope.
    I appreciate you being here. I had the great privilege of 
serving on the Budget Committee for my first 4 years here in 
Congress under Chairman Smith, and certainly wish you continued 
good luck and good fortune as we work through this.
    I did want to, just because it is brought up, and I 
appreciate your reference to general and then President 
Washington at a time when the world was very different. I think 
we would all acknowledge that. At the time, the U.S. dollar was 
clearly not international currency and the reserve currency 
that it now is. Some degree of issuing bonds to help finance 
world activities is critical.
    I share your real concerns about growing debt, the amount 
that we pay on debt annually, which, as you rightly point out, 
exceeds our defense budget. You know, the notion that we could 
spend a trillion dollars on other things instead of the debt or 
even a significant portion of that, hundreds of billions we 
could do to uplift people in this country. I share with you 
your concern.
    You know, for those who are not concerned about it, I think 
it is important to know, when interest rates rise, as we have 
seen. That means we pay more on that debt. War and natural 
disasters are harder to fund when you have already stretched 
your ability to do it. I think there are real concerns.
    I will say this: As you are dealing with this, since you 
are here, you know, I think any reasonable person would 
recognize that, if the U.S. Government is spending $5, $6, $7 
trillion a year, pick a number, and it is roughly $6 trillion, 
I think, outlays last year, that, even as a rounding error, 
there are things that we could do which saves significant 
amount of dollars in the course of doing that.
    I will just editorialize. I think the slash and burn that 
is going on right now by Mr. Musk and some of his cohorts is 
not the way to do this, but I think there is clearly a place 
where we can all agree that there would be savings.
    I also think that a reasonable person would conclude in a 
time of enormous debt and real pressures that, even as we are 
reducing the increase in expenditures or even get to flat 
funding potentially, if we could weed out things that, perhaps, 
are not essential, that cutting the rate of revenues at the 
same time could lead to disaster as well.
    I think in my mind--and I am not in charge of anything 
here, so I will just make an observation--that a coming 
together of both sides in a real way to look at the long-term 
interests of this country, which include a real discussion 
about both revenues and expenditures, so that we get to a point 
where, as measured against GDP, which is really the best way to 
measure, and you have raised that--we are now at roughly 122 
percent I think of GDP--that you need to look at both elements 
of it. What is in the interest of the American public, and how 
do we move forward?
    Just thank you for your comments. I am wildly off topic 
because that is not my job here today, but since you are here 
and since you raised it.
    I do want to ask whether or not, given the role--and I 
think the Chairman referenced it, and we have been talking 
about Chevron deference and the fact that it is gone now, and 
in light of that decision, it really requires more of Congress 
rather than less, and we are going to have to do more.
    Do you feel you have adequate resources as it relates to 
your role in making sure that we are able to fulfill those 
obligations in light of the Loper Bright decision to remove 
Chevron deference?
    Mr. Arrington. Thank you, Mr. Ranking Member.
    We have the resources. The issue, like many in Washington, 
I think you might agree with this, is not do we have the 
resources or do we have the solutions, the policy reforms, but 
do we have the political will to restore article I by leading 
and being responsible for our oversight, for the powers of the 
purse, and acting responsibly.
    I cannot write that in the legislation. The American people 
have to hold us accountable to that. In terms of financial 
resources, I agree.
    Let me, if I may, just to respond to your comment earlier. 
The long-term unfunded liabilities--think about this--the long-
term, 30-year unfunded liabilities on top of the highest level 
of indebtedness today, $36 trillion, is $125 trillion. We will 
never make that if we do not intervene.
    Most of the big things that we have to do to resolve these 
matters and to return to a sustainable level of debt to GDP we 
are going to need to do together with Republicans and 
Democrats, kind of like Ronald Reagan did with Tip O'Neill. 
That was the last big deal that was done to put us on that 
sustainable path.
    Know this, we cannot have 1.8 percent growth rates and get 
there either. To take the pressure off the reduction in 
spending, we have got to get back to 2.5, 3 percent growth 
rates. One percent of growth over 10 years from where we are at 
1.8 is $3 trillion in additional revenue or savings toward the 
deficit. We also need to work together on that.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you. I appreciate that.
    Mr. Arrington. Thank you, Ranking Member.
    Mr. Morelle. Yes. I yield back.
    Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
    Chairman Arrington, we appreciate you being here on what is 
an incredibly busy day and busy week for you.
    The Committee will pause while the witness panel exits.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Arrington. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Steil. I now welcome our next panel of witnesses, 
Chairman Comer, Ranking Member Connolly from the Committee on 
Oversight and Government Reform.
    We are using this Committee to have a conversation about 
every Committee's budget as we go through the allocation 
process. We have had a lot of conversations about the ending of 
Chevron deference, about how we make sure our Committees are 
robustly staffed to make sure that we are providing proper 
oversight. No Committee more important on the oversight side 
than this Committee.
    We will recognize each of you for 5 minutes for opening 
statements. We will have 5 minutes for questions total on the 
minority and the majority side yielding amongst our colleagues.
    We will dive right in. I will recognize you, Chairman 
Comer, for 5 minutes.

STATEMENT OF THE HON. JAMES COMER, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS 
                   FROM THE STATE OF KENTUCKY

    Mr. Comer. Well, thank you, Chairman Steil and Ranking 
Member Morelle, for holding this Committee funding hearing 
today.
    Ranking Member Connolly and I are pleased to submit the 
House Oversight and Government Reform Committee's budget 
request for the 119th Congress.
    Our budget request seeks an appropriate amount to 
facilitate the Oversight Committee's important mission of 
rooting out waste, fraud, and abuse in Federal Government 
programs. The Committee also has key legislative jurisdiction 
over items such as the Federal civil service.
    If accepted, our request is only for a modest increase of 
less than 10 percent, not adjusting for inflation, compared to 
the budget of the 118th Congress.
    This budget will operate the full Committee and its seven 
Subcommittees, including the recently formed Subcommittee on 
Delivering on Government Efficiency. Ranking Member Connolly 
and the minority will receive 33 percent of the budget and 
staff positions to use at his discretion.
    As I mentioned earlier, our Committee's purpose is to 
protect taxpayer dollars from fraud, waste, abuse, and 
mismanagement, and to ensure the efficiency, effectiveness, and 
accountability of the Federal Government. This budget request 
is an investment in oversight. It is an investment in skilled 
staff and a commitment to travel as needed to conduct oversight 
and follow investigative leads.
    To conduct fulsome oversight and meaningful, credible 
investigations, the Committee needs skilled and experienced 
staff. The Committee has recruited and continues to recruit 
staff with oversight expertise and diverse skill sets.
    Our proposed budget will allow the Committee to not only 
recruit but retain experienced legal and investigative staff to 
do our important oversight work.
    Our budget request anticipates 133 total staff positions 
for the Committee, both majority and minority, which maintains 
the total staff slots from 118th Congress.
    In addition to a robust hearing schedule, working with 
whistleblowers and conducting investigations out of our 
congressional offices here in D.C., the Committee plans to hold 
field hearings, perform site visits, and conduct investigative 
work in our States.
    To understand Americans' needs, priorities, and concerns, 
we must hear directly from them. Oversight travel is a 
necessary expense and will allow us to conduct robust oversight 
on behalf of the American people.
    In closing, Ranking Member Connolly and I appreciate your 
consideration of our budget request. We also appreciate your 
commitment to our Committee's oversight mission. We are looking 
forward to fulfilling this important mission during the 119th 
Congress.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Representative Comer follows:]

           PREPARED STATEMENT OF REPRESENTATIVE COMER
GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT


    Chairman Steil. Thank you, Chairman Comer.
    Ranking Member Connolly, you are now recognized for 5 
minutes.

 STATEMENT OF THE HON. GERALD E. CONNOLLY, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
              CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF VIRGINIA

    Mr. Connolly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member 
Morelle. Great to be with you today. I want to thank the 
Chairman, Chairman Comer, for the collaborative approach with 
which he and his staff have approached this budget.
    Our request for a combined budget of $32,864,613 to operate 
our Committee is a modest increase from the previous funding 
allocation and recognition that our Committee will take on what 
I hope will be robust oversight in the 119th Congress.
    Importantly, our bipartisan request maintains the allocated 
Committee staff slots from the 118th Congress, as Chairman 
Comer has indicated, which is 133 staff slots.
    As the principal investigative body of the House of 
Representatives, our Committee holds a unique and consequential 
role. It has authority to investigate the subjects within our 
Committee's legislative jurisdiction as well as any matter--any 
matter--within the jurisdiction of the other standing House 
Committees.
    Our legislative jurisdiction includes many timely issues, 
such as the Federal workforce, District of Columbia, the United 
States Postal Service, the National Archives, Government 
procurement, Federal IT, just to name a few.
    To meet the demands of this expansive oversight mandate, 
our Committee currently has seven Subcommittees, up from five 
in the previous Congress.
    To faithfully carry out our mission for the American 
people, we must rely on smart, talented, and experienced staff 
who work long hours and make personal sacrifices in order to 
service our Nation and this institution, the U.S. Congress. 
They bring technical and investigative experience that our 
Members and the American people rely on and benefit from.
    Moreover, the nature of our work often extends beyond the 
Halls of Congress. It takes us into communities impacted by 
crisis and policy decisions. From the devastation we have 
witnessed in places like North Carolina and Los Angeles, we 
have seen firsthand the necessity of field hearings, site 
visits, and fact-finding missions.
    These efforts bring Government closer to the people, 
ensuring that those most affected by Federal policies have a 
voice in the oversight of the process.
    Our constituents and the American people need a Government 
to work for them. This Committee is tasked with delivering 
that. I believe that the budget request allows us to try to 
fulfill that mission in its completion.
    I thank my colleague, Mr. Comer, for his bipartisanship, 
and I thank you all for your attention today.
    I yield back.
    Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
    I appreciate both of you being here today, in particular 
Chairman Comer, where our Committees overlap as it relates to 
election integrity, in particular as it relates to your 
oversight of the Nation's Capital here in Washington, D.C., 
which has had some pretty poor practices as relates to election 
integrity.
    Let me jump in. A question I have asked both chair and 
Ranking Member of every Committee is: Will you commit to having 
your system administrator meet with the House's CIO as it 
relates to cybersecurity in the first quarter of this year? 
Yes?
    Mr. Comer. Absolutely. We try to make sure that our systems 
are secure, but we will continue to meet regularly, yes.
    Chairman Steil. Thank you.
    Mr. Connolly. Absolutely.
    Chairman Steil. Thank you. Thank you very much.
    Chairman Comer, you created a new Subcommittee this year. A 
real focus in the first quarter of this year after President 
Trump was elected I think in a really positive way is oversight 
over Government efficiency across the board. It is obviously 
front and center for the Trump administration. It is front and 
center for Congress. You created the DOGE Subcommittee on 
Oversight.
    Could you provide us a little color on that, and then the 
funding request that is associated with it?
    Mr. Comer. Absolutely. Of course, this is dominating the 
airwaves. You see it is probably--DOGE is probably mentioned 
more by both parties in the House of Representatives than 
anything right now.
    We have created a Subcommittee to focus exclusively on the 
mission of DOGE, and that is to identify waste, fraud, abuse, 
and mismanagement in the Federal Government.
    The Chairwoman, Ms. Green, is in communication with Musk, 
regular communication, and his people. We are having a 
Committee hearing now. I just left that Committee hearing. Lots 
of interest from the American people. I believe it was covered 
live on CNN and Fox.
    What we are trying to do is be transparent with what DOGE 
is doing. We are working hand in hand. A lot of the stuff they 
identify and their objectives we are having hearings to not 
only amplify but also to figure out solutions.
    When you identify the waste, it is one thing, but you have 
got to make sure that the problem gets solved. I think that has 
been a problem with oversight in the past. We have done a good 
job identifying waste, just no one is ever held accountable, 
and the wasteful spending does not stop.
    DOGE is going to work very closely with the Musk team to 
ensure that the goals are met from a legislative standpoint.
    Chairman Steil. Terrific.
    I look to my colleagues if they would like me to yield, but 
otherwise I have another question I can go to.
    Let me build on what you were just speaking about. Your 
Committee uniquely requires a wide array of expertise because 
the oversight jurisdiction that you have is very broad.
    Mr. Comer. Right.
    Chairman Steil. As you look at the competition you are 
feeling at the private sector against, in particular, this 
administration probably looking for some of the talent that you 
developed over the past handful of years, do you feel you have 
the resources you need to be able to compete, or is there 
anything that this Committee should be looking at?
    Mr. Comer. I think with our request we will be able to do 
that. We need lawyers, accountants. We need the most skilled of 
all Government employees because there is a lot of auditing. 
There are a lot of specific scenarios where we are meeting with 
whistleblowers and we are trying to comply with whistleblower 
protection laws and things like that.
    It is not just Washington, D.C., the Federal Government 
waste. We took some trips to the border to meet with Border 
Patrol. We actually deposed some Border Patrol members at the 
border to make it easier for them.
    We do a lot of depositions. That obviously requires legal 
expertise. Now we are really looking at improper payments. 
There is a need for auditing expertise on the Committee as 
well.
    Chairman Steil. You do a series of investigative trips. You 
referenced the border. Is that both staff and Members that you 
are often taking there? That is actually an efficiency to do 
that----
    Mr. Comer. Yes.
    Chairman Steil [continuing]. because you can bring the team 
down there and depose the people.
    Mr. Comer. It is cheaper to go down there than fly them up 
here and put them in a hotel room. It is easier because people 
always come up with excuses, ``Well, I cannot this day, I 
cannot that day.''
    When we need information, we will go to them. We have a lot 
of people that have concerns that we have to meet with. You 
could call them whistleblowers. I call a whistleblower a 
Federal employee that actually takes the whistleblower 
designation. We have lots of people that call with concerns.
    Some of these concerns pan out. Some of them do not. It 
just takes a lot of staff time, a lot of staff expertise to be 
able to navigate all the complaints and expressions of concern 
that we receive from the American people.
    Chairman Steil. Well, I appreciate you being here. You have 
got a lot of very important work ahead of you this Congress.
    I will yield back. I will now recognize the Ranking Member 
for 5 minutes for the purpose of asking questions.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for being here.
    Ranking Member Connolly, thank you for being here as well.
    I apologize if you have said this or if the chair asked 
this question while I stepped out of the room. The traditional 
two-third/one-third split in funding for the Committee, I just 
want to make sure, Mr. Chair, that you will continue to respect 
the minority's one-third----
    Mr. Comer. Absolutely.
    Mr. Morelle [continuing]. and allow them the independence 
to spend the money as they see fit.
    Mr. Comer. Absolutely. We are excited that Mr. Connolly is 
the Ranking Member, and my staff has enjoyed working with his 
staff thus far.
    Mr. Morelle. Great. Thank you.
    I think this was touched on, and I think the chair 
referenced the Loper Bright decision last year by the Supreme 
Court which eliminated Chevron deference.
    One of the challenges for Congress moving forward, I think, 
no matter where you are, on which side of the aisle, the role 
that Congress will play in policymaking is going to become much 
more detailed.
    The requirements are going to put much greater pressure on 
congressional committees in the House and Senate to be far more 
specific than we have been, which is going to put a greater 
burden on your Committee because it will also mean more 
oversight of the things that Congress has authorized.
    Given that, I would like to hear from both of you as to 
whether or not you feel you have the resources to carry out 
those article I responsibilities, particularly in light of the 
removal of Chevron deference.
    Mr. Comer. You want you or me?
    Mr. Connolly. Well, the question is: Do we have the 
resources? Obviously, on our side of the aisle, we would prefer 
the resources Mr. Comer has. I think we have approached the 
budget in a professional way and a bipartisan way.
    On the Democratic side of the aisle, we do feel there has 
been a fair distribution of resources and we can meet the task 
with the resources we have.
    Mr. Comer. I agree with Mr. Connolly. The staff spent a lot 
of time preparing the budget, and I think we can live with 
that, and we commit to working with the minority on what their 
percentage is supposed to be.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you both for that.
    I will just reiterate something I have said to a number of 
different Committees that have come in front of us.
    Given what is happening now with the new administration, 
again, without regard to how you feel about the actions in 
terms of substantively, the process is chaotic.
    The need to do executive order instead of legislation when 
you control both Houses of Congress seems to me is wildly 
wrong, misdirected. Most of these things, including empowering 
DOGE and doing the other things that the administration 
apparently wants to do, should be done legislatively instead of 
in a regulatory way or by fiat or executive order.
    I hope--and this is just my personal view--I just hope that 
you will use the dollars that are being appropriated to you in 
a way that allows you to continue to carry that mission out, 
because much of this is precedent setting, and setting 
precedent means that not only is Congress' role vis-a-vis this 
administration but Congress' role vis-a-vis any administration 
in the future.
    Many of us will likely continue to serve in Congress beyond 
this administration. We would do well to be mindful of those 
responsibilities and the fact that the Founders set out 
legislative responsibilities and the power of the purse with 
the Congress.
    We talked about President Washington in the earlier panel, 
but we still hold true that that is the way that the Founders 
and the public should want this to be done. I know you have 
grave responsibility in that regard, and I just mention that as 
we are looking at budgets.
    The final thing I just want to say, as you are doing 
hearings, particularly field hearings, one of the things that 
the chair and I deeply are concerned about is the welfare of 
Members and staff as we travel from a security perspective.
    If you have any comments on how this has been dealt with in 
the past, I would love to hear them. If not, simply an 
invitation for you and your staff to make sure that we are 
coordinating the U.S. Capitol Police, with the Sergeant at 
Arms, with local law enforcement wherever you go. We want to 
make sure that Members and staff remain safe particularly in an 
increased threat environment.
    Mr. Comer. Absolutely. I think you would see with the 
makeup of the Committee, the Committee roster on both sides, we 
have a lot of Members on both sides that are high profile, that 
receive a lot of death threats. We take security very seriously 
when we do the field hearings.
    Mr. Morelle. OK. Thank you.
    With that, I yield back.
    Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
    We appreciate the chair and Ranking Member's testimony here 
today. It is very helpful to us as we go through the Committee 
allocation process.
    The Committee will pause while the witness panel exits and 
the new panel arrives.
    Thank you very much, Chairman Comer.
    Mr. Comer. Thank you all. Thank you.
    Chairman Steil. We welcome our next panel, the Committee on 
Agriculture, Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano.
    Great to have you both with us here today.
    We have been having a robust conversation about the 
Committee funding allocation process. Your testimony will be 
helpful in that. We will give each of you 5 minutes for the 
purpose of offering an opening statement. We will take 5 
minutes on each side between the majority and minority to ask 
questions, yielding between our colleagues.
    Did I not say the Committee on Veterans' Affairs?
    Mr. Bost. You said the Committee on Agriculture, but that 
is OK.
    Chairman Steil. As I look at you and I see you from 
Illinois, Mr. Bost, I jump immediately to the cornfields south 
of the State of Wisconsin. I apologize. As I came zipping in 
the room, I should have taken a moment to pause and reflect.
    Important work on the Committee on Veterans' Affairs. I 
will yield to you, Mr. Bost, for 5 minutes to share your 
proposal.

 STATEMENT OF THE HON. MIKE BOST, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS 
                   FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

    Mr. Bost. Thank you, Chairman and Ranking Member Morelle, 
for the opportunity to discuss the Committee on Veterans' 
Affairs' budget request for the 119th Congress. I am pleased to 
have Ranking Member Mark Takano join me.
    We have submitted our funding request forms for the 119th 
Congress per your Committee's guidance. As you know, the 
Committee has oversight over the entire VA and the Department 
of Veterans Affairs, various programs serving veterans at the 
Departments of Labor and Defense, Arlington National Cemetery, 
our overseas cemeteries, as well as other veterans-related 
matters--all to ensure that VA is meeting their mission for the 
over 9 million veterans and their families and their survivors 
they serve every single day.
    Now, VA is the second-largest Federal agency and the 
largest Federal integrated healthcare system in the country and 
in the world, now employing over 377,000 people with a budget 
approaching $400 billion.
    Since 2015, VA has seen budgetary growth of over 140 
percent. Ensuring proper oversight of taxpayer dollars is 
essential for the delivery of care and services to our 
veterans--and a waste of those dollars is unacceptable.
    We owe it to our veterans and taxpayers to ensure VA is 
making marked progress regarding veterans' access to 
healthcare, wait times in hospitals and clinics, proper use of 
the MISSION Act, the backlog of disability claims, the 
implementation of the electronic health record, and more 
recently, the implementation of the Dole Act, as well as the 
PACT Act that is also out there we are trying to implement.
    Before I speak about our request for the 119th Congress, I 
want to say a thank you to the Members of the Committee. With 
your support and the bipartisan work of the Members of the 
Committee in the 118th Congress, we were able to conduct over 
90 oversight hearings with over 100 VA officials, connecting 
with over 10,000 veterans and their families nationwide through 
in-person and telephone town halls, and sent 160 oversight 
letters to the VA.
    We conducted this work while our funding request was 
relatively flat, with only a modest increase of 4 percent in 
the 118th Congress compared to the 117th Congress.
    To continue our work, though, to accomplish the mission, 
the Committee needs essential, talented staff expertise. 
Accordingly, we have requested a 12-percent increase in the 
Committee's annual budget for the 119th Congress.
    As Chairman, I believe that this additional funding will 
continue to conduct oversight across the country on behalf of 
every veteran, and the new funds would also allow us to hire 
three additional employees. Two of these employees on the 
majority staff side would be health investigators who will go 
out into the field to conduct oversight for VA's vast 
healthcare system.
    Now, my goal would be to hire clinicians or very 
experienced healthcare professionals for this role. I believe 
they would be an asset to the work Congress does every day. In 
this case, we would need additional funds to competitively hire 
these individuals.
    We all know that inflation has impacted the economy, and 
our request takes this into account. We are asking for funding 
to prevent our experienced and highly technical staff, on both 
sides of the aisle, from leaving the Committee.
    Mr. Chairman, unlike many other Committees, we have a deep 
bench. The staff understand the complexity of the VA and they 
do not simply grow on trees.
    Despite being one of the smallest Committees in the House, 
we punch way above our weight level. To put it into 
perspective, for every one of our Committee staff, there are 
over 8,000 VA employees that we have to give oversight to.
    Let me say this again: Mr. Takano and I have just 43 staff 
to oversee an agency that has 377,000 employees. This is why it 
is critical that we have the funds to attract the best and the 
brightest and equip them with the tools they need to provide 
oversight over the VA.
    Mr. Chairman, you have my assurance that we will continue 
to account for and stretch every dollar afforded us as we meet 
and exceed the expectations placed upon us.
    My humble request for you, the Ranking Member, and the 
Members of this Committee is that we build on the oversight 
success that we have made over the last Congress and fully fund 
this request.
    In closing, I want to thank the Chairman and Members of the 
staff of the Committee on House Administration. The work we 
continue to do to modernize the House and make things easier 
for Members and staff to serve the American people has been 
extraordinary.
    I want to thank you for the opportunity to be before you 
today, and I would be glad to answer any questions.
    I now yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Representative Bost follows:]

         PREPARED STATEMENT OF REPRESENTATIVE MIKE BOST
GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT


    Chairman Steil. Thank you very much, Chairman Bost.
    The Ranking Member of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs, 
Mr. Takano, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

STATEMENT OF THE HON. MARK TAKANO, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS 
                  FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

    Mr. Takano. Thanks, Chairman Steil, Ranking Member Morelle, 
and Members of the Committee. Thank you for the opportunity to 
join Chairman Bost in presenting the budget request for the 
House Committee on Veterans' Affairs in the 119th Congress.
    Our Committee remains one of the most active in Congress, 
playing a crucial role in shaping policies that directly impact 
millions of veterans and their families.
    Throughout the 118th Congress, we maintained a bipartisan 
commitment to ensuring that those who have served receive the 
care, benefits, and opportunities that they have earned. We 
advanced significant legislation, conducted rigorous oversight, 
and worked collaboratively to address key challenges facing 
veterans today.
    We continue to oversee the implementation of the PACT Act, 
ensuring that toxic-exposed veterans receive long-overdue 
benefits and healthcare.
    Additionally, we have made critical progress in addressing 
veteran suicide, homelessness, and economic well-being, while 
working to improve access to benefits for historically 
underserved veteran populations.
    Despite these successes, there is still much work to be 
done. The Department of Veterans Affairs is the second-largest 
Federal agency, and it has experienced extraordinary growth, 
with its budget increasing over 140 percent in the past decade 
and its workforce surpassing 377,000 employees. Meanwhile, the 
staffing and resources for our Committee have largely remained 
stagnant, the same.
    Without proper resources, our ability to conduct oversight 
and ensure veterans receive the care and benefits they deserve 
is compromised. We must have the necessary funding to keep pace 
with the increasing complexity and size of VA.
    That is why we are requesting a 12-percent increase in our 
budget for the 119th Congress. This increase is essential for 
several reasons, and I will outline three of them.
    First, staff retention and competitive compensation.
    As the Chairman mentioned, the Committee's work requires 
highly skilled professionals with expertise in VA healthcare, 
benefits, and administration. These staff members are often 
recruited by private sector organizations that can offer 
significantly higher salaries.
    We must ensure that our budget allows us to attract, 
retain, and fairly compensate the experts we need to provide 
effective oversight of VA, which administers the Nation's 
largest integrated healthcare system.
    With the increasing cost of living, inflation, and 
maintaining a robust and knowledgeable team, it is critical to 
our ability to oversee the Nation's largest integrated 
healthcare system and the expansive benefits programs VA 
administers.
    The minority will use its added funds for annual salary 
step increases, filling an unfunded slot from the last 
Congress, and hiring an additional staffer if the Speaker's 
Office approves the extra billets requested by the Chairman.
    Second, we need to have robust oversight of VA.
    During the 118th Congress, the Committee held over 90 
oversight hearings with more than 100 VA officials, connected 
with over 10,000 veterans and their families through town 
halls, and sent 160 oversight letters to VA.
    With an increased budget, we can strengthen our ability to 
hold VA accountable, ensuring that taxpayer dollars are spent 
effectively and veterans receive the care that they deserve.
    Third, field oversight travel.
    The VA operates over 12,000 sites of care across the United 
States, its territories, and the Philippines. To conduct proper 
oversight, our staff and Members must travel to VA facilities 
to assess operations firsthand.
    This funding request will allow us to support travel 
necessary to examine VA healthcare delivery, benefits 
processing, and infrastructure investments.
    As in previous Congresses, the Committee's funding will be 
allocated two-thirds to the majority and one-third to the 
minority. The remaining funds are shared for travel, equipment, 
and other necessary expenses.
    Historically, our Committee has operated with a spirit of 
mutual respect in budgeting decisions, ensuring that both 
majority and minority staff have the resources needed to 
fulfill their responsibilities. We do anticipate maintaining 
that approach and attitude in the 119th Congress.
    Congress' funding decisions should reflect our values, and 
adequately funding our Committee is a direct investment in 
those who have served our country.
    Our mandate is clear: to conduct rigorous oversight of the 
VA and ensure that veterans receive the benefits and services 
they have earned. To meet this responsibility, we must have the 
resources to recruit and retain expert staff, conduct thorough 
oversight, and engage directly with the veteran community.
    I do appreciate your consideration of our funding request 
and look forward to your support in ensuring that we have the 
resources necessary to fulfill our mission. I welcome any 
questions you may have.
    Chairman Steil. Thank you very much, Ranking Member Takano.
    I will recognize myself for 5 minutes to ask questions.
    Your Committee has a great history of a lot of nonpartisan 
work, making sure our veterans receive the benefits they earned 
while serving our country in uniform.
    You referenced, Chairman Bost, the scale and size of the 
VA--377,000 people, a $400 billion budget. It is all about 
making sure our veterans are receiving the benefits. It is not 
only the input, what we spend. It is the output, what are they 
getting. That is where your oversight role is absolutely 
essential.
    When we look at your increase in staff, two healthcare 
investigators, maybe two on the majority, one on the minority, 
it sounds like, could you put a little color on that? Is that 
sufficient in understanding the scale of the VA and the 
importance of making sure that----
    Mr. Bost. Well, if we could figure out a way to do it in 
this climate where we are trying to spend money as wisely as we 
can, but we could use about four times that many staff. I am 
going to tell you that what we have done over the last 2 years 
and even before that of oversight has been appropriate.
    We shift the budget where need be as far as travel and 
everything like that to make sure that we go to those sites 
where we get word from whistleblowers that something is not 
going right or in our investigation team as far as the auditor 
generals and everything like that. Then we can respond.
    This is the level of staff that we think is sensible to ask 
for. We will continue to bat way above our weight, like I said, 
because by having that quality staff and being able to make 
that investment, yes, I think we can do it with what we are 
asking for.
    Chairman Steil. I am looking at my colleagues, if they 
would like me to yield. Otherwise, I will jump to my next 
question.
    One question I have asked every chair and Ranking Member 
out of the gates--I will make it my second question for you, 
though--is will you commit to having your systems administrator 
meet with the House's chief information officer in the first 
quarter of this year to discuss cybersecurity? Yes?
    Mr. Bost. You bet you, yes.
    Mr. Takano. Absolutely.
    Chairman Steil. I appreciate that.
    Let me dive in a little bit on the travel side of the 
budget.
    Mr. Bost. OK.
    Chairman Steil. You noticed that the additional staff slots 
would be for people that would be in the field. Could you just 
walk through the impact on your budget of making sure that your 
investigators are in the field at VA locations around the 
country?
    Mr. Bost. Well, last year we did not ask for an increase in 
it, and we went over a little last year, but we were able to do 
that with the staffing funds that we had and were able to shift 
that. The same thing as that. That is why we have not asked for 
that.
    We cannot predict, but we would love to be able to say 
that, ``Hey, we know that L.A. is going to have a problem and 
we are going to have to be there this many days,'' or something 
as big as the fact, ``Hey, Guam has a problem.'' Now you are 
talking a lot of travel.
    I would like to be able to predict that. We believe, based 
on our past history, things that have come up that we are 
holding with our travel budget, and if it gets to the point 
like it did last year, we can shift that over.
    Chairman Steil. By definition you have to be reactive----
    Mr. Bost. We have to.
    Chairman Steil [continuing]. because if you knew a problem 
was coming you would prevent----
    Mr. Bost. Yes. Oversight. Many of our Committees that come 
before you, their main job is to pass laws dealing with that. 
We have that. Our oversight is some of the most important 
things we do through the Committee. If you believe there is not 
a problem somewhere in VA, as big as it is, wait 5 minutes, you 
will find one.
    Chairman Steil. Any entity that is $400 billion, 377,000 
people, despite the overwhelming majority of them doing great 
work for the right reasons to serve our veterans, does not mean 
that there is not someone making a mistake, making an error, 
and doing the wrong thing.
    Mr. Bost. That is correct. One thing that we do have, and 
not that the previous administration did not work with us to 
make sure we went into the issues, let me tell you that because 
of the friendship I have with the new Secretary, he and I 
served--well, so did many of you serve with Doug Collins--we 
are going to be working to make sure that those dollars are 
going to what they are supposed to do, providing for the 
healthcare and veterans' benefits that they are supposed to do, 
not to a heavy level of bureaucracy; or if any fraud or abuse 
is occurring, we will look into that very closely, and we have 
to have the oversight staff to do that.
    Chairman Steil. Thank you both for being here, Chairman 
Bost, Ranking Member Takano.
    I will yield back.
    I will recognize Ranking Member Morelle for 5 minutes for 
asking questions.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you, Chairman Bost----
    Mr. Bost. Thank you, Mr. Morelle.
    Mr. Morelle [continuing]. and Ranking Member Takano, for 
being here. Thanks for all you do.
    I want to just begin just a quick check. Tradition has it 
in the House that the minority has one-third of the staff 
budget.
    I want to just get from you, Mr. Chair, your commitment 
that the one-third budget will be at the direction of Mr. 
Takano and he will----
    Mr. Bost. Right. What we have is one-third and two-thirds 
on the staffing level. The other is shared. We have never had a 
problem with that. Matter of fact, the staffer who is behind me 
that has handled the budget over the last 24 years actually 
worked for Republican and Democrat alike.
    That has been our policy, and it has always been. There has 
never been a question if there is an ask--I mean, we still do 
the oversight of saying, ``OK, is this travel necessary?'' 
Whether it is minority or majority, we know what our job is, 
and we work together to make sure that happens.
    Mr. Morelle. Mr. Takano, you are confident in your 
relationship that that has been the case and will continue?
    Mr. Takano. We have a good working relationship with each 
other, and we respect each other's turf, and we respect the 
precedents of the Committee, yes.
    Mr. Morelle. Very good.
    I will just make this observation, which I have made to 
other chairs and other Ranking Members who have come before us.
    We have made considerable mention in the last 2 days around 
the Loper Bright decision which eliminated Chevron deference, 
which puts a great deal more pressure, it seems to me, on 
Congress, both houses, to make sure there is some real 
specificity in the bills that we pass, not simply giving the 
right to, in this case, the Administrator or the VA or other 
parts of your significant responsibility.
    Do you feel you have the resources necessary to make sure 
as you are doing authorizing legislation that you give that 
specificity and that you have the resources to be able to do 
that effectively?
    Mr. Bost. Let me tell you, I believe we do, and we believe 
it is our job.
    From my standpoint, I came from 20 years in a State 
legislature where we actually directed the agencies. I think 
that we should do a little bit more of that, and maybe that 
court case will give us that authority to where we take back 
our power as Members of Congress to do exactly that.
    Mr. Morelle. I appreciate that. I served a similar period 
of time in the New York State Legislature. I think I have said 
this earlier today, was somewhat surprised when I came to 
Congress at, frankly, the lack of detail or specificity.
    To your point, at the State legislature we would be much 
more involved. I had some rules relative to giving too much 
power to commissioners just generally when I drafted 
legislation as a Committee Chair.
    I have been surprised, and perhaps this is a way to--
without regard to how you feel about the decision, and I am 
sure people have wildly different opinions, but the net result 
is it requires us now to have a level of specificity which we 
have lacked for some time.
    Mr. Takano, do you have a comment on that?
    Mr. Takano. Well, Mr. Ranking Member, this came up in an 
oversight--there was much discussion about it in a Committee 
hearing. I do believe that the decision does imply that 
Congress does need to staff up further, and we need to consider 
that.
    I have always been worried about the level of scientific 
expertise available to all Members of Congress. We are all 
limited to, like, maybe three or four LAs. For us to keep up 
with crypto, to keep up with AI, AI certainly has applications 
to VA and how we administer medicine or health, health policy.
    I would also say the Chairman and I have shared, I think, 
we have shared an interest in oversight over the implementation 
of the electronic medical records, which is a year's long, 
billions of dollars being spent. That requires very, very 
strong expertise, and that expertise does not come cheaply, and 
I do not think we have enough. This is going to be helpful, but 
to keep a handle on $15 billion reaching $30 billion of trying 
to get this records system up is going to be difficult.
    Mr. Morelle. Yes. One of my responsibilities is to--just to 
make an additional comment, and then I am happy to yield. I 
served in the State legislature as Chairman of the Insurance 
Committee. You have a large essentially healthcare system to 
run, and it does take expertise, and it is a real job that you 
have.
    I will just make my completely unsolicited advice that I 
think long term our Committee, all of us collectively, are 
going to need to invest a great deal more in Congress, in 
resources for Congress, to be able to do the job that we have 
been asked to do effectively.
    Thanks for all of your time.
    Mr. Takano. I appreciate that. Thank you, Ranking Member.
    Mr. Morelle. I yield back.
    Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
    Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, we appreciate both of 
you coming before us. It is very helpful as we work to finalize 
the Committee budgets.
    The Committee will pause while the witness panels exit. 
Appreciate you being here.
    Mr. Bost. Thank you.
    Chairman Steil. We now welcome our next panel of witnesses.
    Chairman Guthrie, congratulations on your Chairmanship, 
Ranking Member Pallone, thank you both for joining us today.
    We have been engaged in a long series of panels of Chairmen 
and Ranking Members that have come before us. It is a real 
opportunity to make sure that you have the resources you need, 
that we are being good stewards of taxpayer dollars.
    There has been a lot of conversation about the end of 
Chevron deference. When we think about Energy and Commerce, 
that has a big impact on the work that you do.
    We will give each of you 5 minutes for an opening 
statement. Then we will take 5 minutes in total each for the 
majority and minority for questions, yielding amongst the 
Members.
    I will now recognize you, Chairman Guthrie, for 5 minutes.

   STATEMENT OF THE HON. BRETT GUTHRIE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
              CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF KENTUCKY

    Mr. Guthrie. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman Steil, thank 
you, Ranking Member Morelle, for holding this Committee funding 
hearing.
    Ranking Member Pallone and I are pleased to submit to the 
House the Committee on Energy and Commerce's budget request for 
the 119th Congress.
    The Committee on Energy and Commerce has expansive 
jurisdiction which vests us with the opportunity and 
responsibility to address issues affecting Americans every day.
    The Committee has already started tackling many of our 
priorities for the 119th Congress. For example, we have held 
hearings examining ways to unleash American energy; consider 
reforms to the Frank R. Lautenberg Chemical Safety for the 21st 
Century Act, your former colleague from New Jersey; explore 
America's spectrum management; and consider legislation to keep 
fentanyl out of our communities. Today we are holding a hearing 
on manufacturing the next generation of American technology.
    The American people are counting on us to focus on these 
issues and many more to deliver results that improve their 
lives.
    To further the Committee's ambitious legislative agenda, 
our budget request seeks $32.3 million. Ranking Member Pallone 
and the minority will receive 37 percent of the budget.
    The Energy and Commerce Committee has 54 Members, two more 
than last Congress, to help carry out our agenda. Therefore, a 
significant part of our budget would go to attracting, hiring, 
and retaining staff with experience and expertise to help these 
Members in their work to pass significant legislation.
    Our budget request includes keeping 130 staff positions for 
the Committee, consistent with last Congress. The minority will 
receive an additional slot, with 85 slots for the majority and 
45 for the minority.
    The budget request also factors in Committee field work. To 
better inform the Committee's oversight and legislative work, 
Energy and Commerce Committee Members will need to travel for 
field hearings and site visits to hear directly from the 
American people, small businesses, and industries, especially 
those who are unable to travel to Washington, D.C.
    For example, the Committee is planning field hearings and 
site visits in North Dakota, Texas, Iowa, Michigan, and 
California to look at energy healthcare supply chains and 
artificial intelligence issues. Collecting testimony, data, and 
firsthand experiences will help us craft quality and responsive 
legislation.
    Ranking Member Pallone and I appreciate your consideration 
for our budget request. We also appreciate your commitment to 
our Committee's mission.
    From healthcare and energy to telecommunications and 
consumer protection policy, the Committee on Energy and 
Commerce has a lot to accomplish. We are looking forward to 
fulfilling this important mission during the 119th Congress.
    Thank you. I yield back.
    Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
    Ranking Member Pallone, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

 STATEMENT OF THE HON. FRANK PALLONE, JR., A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
             CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY

    Mr. Pallone. Thank you, Chairman Steil, Ranking Member 
Morelle, and the Members of the Committee, and thank you for 
the opportunity to testify on the proposed budget for the 
Energy and Commerce Committee for the 119th Congress. I am 
pleased to join Committee Chair Guthrie here today and thank 
him for seeking me and my staff's input on the preparation of 
the proposed budget request.
    As you know, I am not going to repeat the Committee's 
jurisdiction, but it has the broadest jurisdiction of any 
authorizing Committee in the House. Over the last several 
Congresses, our Committee has been extremely productive in 
legislating. Even with the challenges of the 118th Congress, we 
were able to advance a lot of bipartisan bills out of the 
Committee.
    Some of those bills made it into the end-of-the-year 
bipartisan, bicameral agreement that was, unfortunately, 
stripped from the Committee resolution at the very last minute. 
That package banned, just as an example, abusive pricing 
practices by pharmacy benefit managers, increased funding for 
community health centers, and cracked down on junk fees.
    It also reauthorized both the SUPPORT Act to build upon our 
efforts to combat the drug overdose epidemic and the Pandemic 
and All-Hazards Preparedness Act to fund pandemic response.
    I just use that as an example of the types of things that 
we deal with. While we were not able to get these bipartisan 
provisions signed into law last Congress, I know we are all 
committed to getting them done this Congress.
    Our proposed budget, which requests a 17.8-percent increase 
in funding for the Committee above the 118th Congress levels, 
will greatly assist us in fulfilling our legislative oversight 
and the investigative duties over the expansive areas within 
our jurisdiction.
    The Energy and Commerce Committee has a long and proud 
history of bipartisan collaboration in the spirit of serving 
all Americans. To see directly how the laws we pass here in 
Washington impact the communities we serve, we plan to travel 
to Committee Members' districts to listen to firsthand 
experiences from people in these districts.
    In order to advance the Committee's goal, it is also 
critical that we retain a strong and experienced staff. Over 
the last several Congresses, the institution has taken 
tremendous steps to increase staff pay across the board, 
instituting minimum annual pay, and recently boosting the 
maximum pay for senior staffers to $225,100. I commend Speaker 
Johnson and this Committee for making those staff salary 
increases a reality.
    These pay increases are essential to attract and retain a 
diverse workforce that remains on Capitol Hill, but in order to 
continue to boost staff salaries, we need larger overall 
Committee budgets. Right now I have nine open full-time 
employee slots that I cannot fill because we do not have the 
overall budget for the salaries for those potential candidates. 
I also do not have the resources in the minority to give any 
current staff raises.
    We have to continue to boost staff salaries to be 
competitive with Federal agencies and the private sector. 
Otherwise, the legislative branch is at a distinct 
disadvantage, and we simply cannot allow that to happen, in my 
opinion.
    Longtime Committee staff who intricately know and 
understand the legislative history of the laws that previous 
Congresses have passed are critical to ensuring that the 
legislative intent of those laws is known over time. Staffers 
with investigative experience are also critical to our 
oversight of the administration and our investigative efforts 
of industries within our jurisdiction.
    We also have to ensure that the Committee staff have the 
tools they need to do their job, and this includes access to 
essential technical support and subscriptions to informational 
sources, current affairs, policy. This budget increase takes 
into account the chief administrative officer's directive that 
Committee and congressional offices regularly update 
information technology infrastructure.
    The Committee will also be modernizing our Subcommittee 
room in Rayburn which will force the Democratic senior staff to 
move from an office space that includes offices to one that 
must be updated with another modular furniture in offices, and 
we have been told that the Committee will have to pay for these 
necessary updates.
    Chair Guthrie and I will also continue to work together to 
control and reduce our costs wherever possible--I pledge that--
and as proactively as we can while also promoting a Committee 
culture of accountability and respect for the American 
taxpayer, Mr. Chairman.
    The Committee has a lot of work to do over the next 2 
years, and I firmly believe this request will provide us the 
resources we need to get the job done. I join Chair Guthrie in 
voicing my strong support for this budget request.
    Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Steil. Thank you, Ranking Member Pallone, thank 
you, Chairman Guthrie, both for your testimony.
    I recognize myself for 5 minutes for the purpose of asking 
questions.
    I will ask one question I have asked every chair and 
Ranking Member, and then I will yield to my colleagues with 
more expertise on Energy and Commerce.
    Will you both commit to having your systems administrator 
meet with the House's chief information officer to discuss 
cybersecurity in the first quarter of this year?
    Mr. Guthrie. I will.
    Mr. Pallone. I will as well.
    Chairman Steil. Terrific.
    I will yield to Representative Lee.
    Ms. Lee. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member 
Pallone, for being with us here today.
    I am proud to serve on the Energy and Commerce Committee, 
which as we have heard today has one of the broadest 
jurisdictions of any authorizing Committee and covers issues 
that have a profound impact on the daily lives of Americans, 
including energy, technology, telecommunications, and 
healthcare.
    We know that in the 118th Congress alone more than 4,000 
bills were referred to the Committee, and it also has a leading 
role in the reconciliation process.
    For the 119th Congress, E&C is requesting a 17.8-percent 
increase in their budget.
    Chairman Guthrie, would you please describe the process for 
putting your budget submission together? What were the big 
factors that you took into consideration in developing your 
budget request?
    Mr. Guthrie. Thank you very much for that.
    When we were working together, we were looking at the 
Committee now has two more Members. They were awarded two more 
Members after the last Steering Committee process. What we want 
to do is increase involvement with shared staff, so each 
Subcommittee Chairman will have somebody from their personal 
office that is also shared staff with the Committee.
    That links--that was a few years back--and we think that 
actually connects the personal office with the Committee and 
gives more ability to maneuver for the Chairman.
    We purchased party line software that lets us keep up with 
Members' commitments and their achievements and 
accomplishments. We are building a press studio so we can 
better communicate. It will be used for both sides.
    I think the most important thing that I have learned from 
other Committees as I was looking at what to do is the 
Committee travel. You are new to the Committee, and I know my 
friend from Virginia would say we did not do a lot of field 
hearings and those types of issues I think that are vitally 
important. In even one particular area, when we had fire in one 
area and it was in our jurisdiction to go investigate, and we 
did not have--we did not do that. I think that is very, very 
important.
    We are going to do a heavy legislative lift this Congress, 
and we think it is important to do that. That was all factored 
in.
    Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Chairman Steil. The gentlewoman yields back.
    Mr. Griffith is recognized.
    Mr. Griffith. Yes, let me amplify on that and ask about 
that.
    We are going to use some of this money to go out and see 
things. It was disappointing as formerly the Chair of Oversight 
and Investigations for Energy and Commerce that we did the 
groundbreaking work. I thought we had a great hearing. It was 
bipartisan. We were fact-finding on the Maui fire. The 
Subcommittee and I had worked together to try to figure out how 
we could get out there because there were issues that not only 
related to the--the electricity was the No. 1 issue, the 
electric department.
    Then there were also some collateral issues with invasive 
plants and some other things that burned hotter than the 
regular plants.
    You cannot learn that kind of thing, you cannot really get 
a good feel for it unless you go and see it.
    Because it was a nicer location and I did not want folks to 
think we were doing some kind of a junket, I said schedule us 
something so that we are not there except for the time to do 
our field hearing and that 1 day. We had that all lined up, but 
for whatever reasons we never got around to doing it.
    Then I have looked at the Committee this year, Mr. Chairman 
and Ranking Member, I would ask you all as well, we have 
probably--and you all have both served longer than I--but an 
unprecedented number of new Members.
    Whether you are for or against using Yucca Mountain, most 
of our Members have never been to Yucca. They have never been 
to Hanford. They have never been to the CDC headquarters. I 
mean, we have not done that since I have been on the 
Committee--it is 14 years--been down to the CDC headquarters in 
Atlanta who we oversee.
    Even a simple field trip visitation to learn stuff at NIH. 
I have been there on my own. I have learned a lot of what they 
do. We have not done those things in the past.
    I have to tell you, I am glad that you all put that into 
your budget to take a look at it. Every one of them, not every 
Member goes to these field hearings, but in the few we have had 
and that I have been to, I have learned a tremendous amount.
    Any comments that you all want to add because I talked most 
of my time away?
    Mr. Guthrie. Thanks.
    Well, I agree with you. We are looking at the automotive 
industry in Detroit, tech industry in San Francisco, Silicon 
Valley, the biotech industry that is going on in Boston. Those 
things we all need to see.
    Also on the other side, I think you are planning meetings, 
if not hearings but field sites, in every Ranking Member's 
district, so like Tampa for Kathy Castor, for example. I can go 
through the list.
    Mr. Griffith. Well, with TSCA being up for renewal and 
Brownfields, et cetera, I mean, I think we ought to go see what 
we are talking about when we are talking about that. I think 
that is important for all the Committee Members, both majority 
and minority.
    I yield back.
    Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back. I yield back.
    The Ranking Member is recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you both very much for being here.
    Congratulations to you, Mr. Chairman, on your new 
responsibilities which have been described, I think, very well 
by my colleagues in terms of the breadth of what your Committee 
does. Always great to see the Ranking Member.
    I want to just start first, relative to the split in 
dollars, Mr. Chair, whether you will continue to commit to 
allowing independence to the Ranking Member for the dollars 
that have been appropriated for use by the Democrats.
    Mr. Guthrie. Yes. That has been a tradition of the 
Committee, and I plan to do as well.
    Mr. Morelle. Great.
    Mr. Pallone, you are comfortable, Mr. Pallone?
    Mr. Pallone. Yes. I mean, I am lucky in that the Committee 
over the past 4 years has moved away from the two-thirds/one-
third split. It started when I was the chair in 2021. The 
minority budget has been somewhere between 37 and 40 percent 
over the past few years, and I am hopeful that Chair Guthrie 
will continue that tradition.
    In fact, I think you are seeing a lot of Committees move in 
that direction. No party has a supermajority anymore, and the 
ratios of the Committees are much tighter than two-thirds/ one-
third, obviously.
    I think it is only fair to give more resources to the 
minority, especially when we know how easily the House can 
continue to flip in the years to come.
    Mr. Guthrie. We are committed to that 37, and we even 
discussed, we are new to this, so we are learning how we 
operate our budgets. If there is more flexibility, we are going 
to do more.
    Mr. Morelle. Great. Thank you.
    I want to just measure, particularly given the breadth of 
this Committee's authorization responsibilities, we have talked 
a lot here with previous chairs and Ranking Members about the 
Supreme Court decision last year in Loper Bright relative to 
removing the Chevron deference, the importance of our article I 
responsibilities, both as authorizers and as providing 
oversight.
    Frankly, without regard to how you view the current 
situation, given the need for Congress to be more specific as 
it writes laws and gives authorization to the various agencies 
and the need to assert our role under the Constitution, do you 
feel you have adequate resources to carry out all those article 
I responsibilities with this budget?
    I will start with you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Guthrie. We do think this request, if it is met, meets 
our resources. If you remember, as we are looking, all of us 
are trying to get the staff in place. On our side of the aisle, 
you are competing with the Senate, and you are also competing 
with the administration. We are trying to attract very talented 
people and keep talented people. It is important for us so we 
can do the deference and write the laws that we need to write.
    Mr. Morelle. I do not know, Mr. Pallone, if you had any 
comment?
    Mr. Pallone. Well, I am never going to say that we have 
enough money to do oversight. You know, I have been here a long 
time, and I remember when John Dingell was the chair. Most of 
the time when he was the chair, you had Democratic Presidents, 
right. He just did an incredible amount of oversight. The staff 
traveled all over the country, you know, visiting the 
communities and agencies and industries.
    You are never going to have enough. We cannot get back to 
those days, I do not think, but I think that with the budget 
that we have put together on a bipartisan basis definitely will 
increase our ability to do the oversight that is required.
    Mr. Morelle. I think it is essential, just as an 
institution and not just as it relates to this administration 
but future administrations, and it is the role that we have 
been asked to play. The public may not always appreciate or 
understand it, but that is what the Founders described and 
articulated in the Constitution, and it is still our 
responsibility.
    As it relates to hearings, I will just use my last minute, 
I agree that going around holding field hearings, et cetera, is 
critical. You get a much different sense from talking to people 
around the country than you might if you do all of your 
hearings here in Washington.
    The chair and I have placed a particular emphasis on Member 
security and staff security, seeing threat assessments go up a 
great deal in the last few years. I know you are new in this 
role, Mr. Chair, so you may not have an opinion on it right 
now, but I would invite you, as you are preparing, to make sure 
that you do everything you can to coordinate with the Capitol 
Police, the Sergeant at Arms, and local law enforcement.
    To the degree that the chair and I and the Members here can 
be helpful in our responsibilities as it relates to oversight 
of the Capitol Police and our ongoing communication, we just 
want to make sure everyone is safe, that everyone is protected, 
both Members and staff. I would just offer that invitation to 
you.
    Mr. Guthrie. Thank you. I appreciate that.
    Mr. Pallone. Thank you.
    Mr. Morelle. With that, I will yield back, Mr. Chair.
    Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
    We appreciate both of your testimony today. It is helpful 
as we go through the Committee funding allocation process. You 
have really important work ahead of you over the next few 
years. Thank you.
    The Committee will pause while the panel exits.
    We now welcome our next panel, Chairman Jordan, Ranking 
Member Raskin, to the Committee. We appreciate you being here.
    We have been going through a robust panel of witnesses over 
the past 2 days analyzing budget funding. A lot of conversation 
about the end of Chevron deference and the need to make sure 
that all Committees have the resources they need, about 
oversight. Your testimony will help guide us as we formulate 
Committee budgets.
    We will recognize each of you for 5 minutes for an opening 
statement. We will then have 5 minutes each in total between 
the majority and minority. We will yield amongst our colleagues 
for questions.
    We will dive right in. I recognize you, Chairman Jordan, 
for 5 minutes.

STATEMENT OF THE HON. JIM JORDAN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS 
                     FROM THE STATE OF OHIO

    Mr. Jordan. Thank you, Chairman and Ranking Member, and to 
Members of the Committee. I just have a brief statement.
    We thank you for the invitation to testify today about the 
Judiciary Committee's budget request for the 119th Congress. 
The fundamental mission of the Judiciary Committee is to 
protect the freedoms and liberties of the American people. In 
fact, we are the one Committee uniquely tasked with protecting 
the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the liberties that we 
enjoy in the greatest country ever.
    We greatly appreciate your support in the 118th Congress to 
ensure that we had the resources and tools to carry out our 
mission. Last Congress, with your support, we exposed and 
stopped the Biden administration's censorship of Americans 
online. In fact, we just came from a hearing where that was the 
subject, the censorship industrial complex.
    We tackled the Biden administration's weaponization of the 
Federal law enforcement against American citizens, and we 
highlighted the problems in past legislation to address the 
Biden border crisis.
    Our work remains unfinished. This Congress we intend to 
continue our aggressive legislative and oversight agenda. We 
also assume additional responsibilities with the new select 
Subcommittee established by the Speaker.
    To carry out our mission, we respectfully ask for the 
$15.857 million for each session of the 119th Congress. This 
funding level matches the level at which the House authorized 
the Judiciary Committee last year following your generous 
allocation from the reserve fund.
    We also respectfully request that our staff slot allocation 
remain at 110 for the 119th Congress. I am pleased that Ranking 
Member Raskin and I have had discussions, and this request has 
bipartisan support.
    Thank you again for your consideration and for the good 
work that you and this Committee does for the Congress.
    Chairman Steil. Thank you very much, Chairman Jordan.
    Ranking Member Raskin, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

    STATEMENT OF THE HON. JAMIE RASKIN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
              CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MARYLAND

    Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chairman and Mr. Morelle, what a pleasure 
it is to be back here with you and with Members of this great 
Committee. I feel great fondness and nostalgia about my time 
served on this Committee.
    The Judiciary Committee, as our good Chairman has just 
said, has broad jurisdiction over the matters that are 
fundamental to justice in America. The Constitution, the Bill 
of Rights, civil rights, civil liberties of the people.
    Our legislative jurisdiction is wide-ranging, addressing 
criminal and civil penalties, as well as Government 
surveillance, antitrust, bankruptcy, immigration and 
naturalization, copyright and trademark, terrorism, espionage, 
interstate compacts, and more. We have a charge to ensure that 
the courts of the country, our administrative bodies, our law 
enforcement agencies are working efficiently for the people.
    In order to fulfill the mission, we need to recruit and to 
retain experienced staff with a diverse set of skills and 
expertise. Accordingly, we are seeking a combined $31,714,000 
for the Judiciary Committee in the 119th Congress. The budget 
we propose and our agreed upon allocation of funding between 
the majority and the minority will enable us to conduct the 
essential work in the 119th.
    I want to thank Chairman Jordan for including us in this 
process, and thank you for your time and consideration.
    I am ready to answer any questions you might have for me. 
Thanks.
    Chairman Steil. Thank you both.
    I will recognize myself for 5 minutes to ask questions. I 
will ask one question that I have asked every chair and Ranking 
Member, which is will you commit to having your systems 
administrator meet with the House's Chief Information Officer 
to discuss cybersecurity in the first quarter?
    Mr. Jordan. Yes, sir.
    Chairman Steil. Thank you very much.
    I am now going to yield to a Member of the Judiciary 
Committee, Laura Lee.
    Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member Raskin, 
for being here with us today and for your testimony.
    Mr. Chairman, I would like to start with you. In my 
experience on the Committee, firsthand experience outside of 
the Beltway to help us better understand issues is essential to 
the functioning of the Committee.
    I see that you requested a slight increase in your travel 
budget for the 119th Congress, including funding for some field 
hearings and roundtables. Would you please shine some light on 
the goals of the Committee in conducting these field hearings 
and roundtables and why you find them important?
    Mr. Jordan. Well, the Ranking Member mentioned this and I 
think I did in my opening statement, too. We have this broad 
jurisdiction relative to immigration law. Some of that is going 
to be border related. That is what we did last Congress. We had 
field hearings in Yuma, and we were in Texas down on the border 
to deal with that crisis situation that was there in the 
previous administration.
    Then we went to some of the big cities. We were in New York 
City. I know the gentlelady was at these hearings as well. The 
hearing in New York, unbelievable about these district 
attorneys who were not prosecuting the really bad guys. We 
heard from victims, family members. We think that is important 
for our mission, and so we appreciate that, and that is why we 
are doing it.
    We are also concerned about what is happening in Europe 
with the attack on free speech. That is one of the subjects we 
are discussing in the hearing that is going on right now. We 
appreciate the consideration for that part of the budget as 
well for travel.
    Ms. Lee. You also mentioned in your questionnaire that the 
Judiciary Committee relied heavily on the E-Discovery Program 
that was implemented last Congress through the modernization 
Subcommittee here. How did being able to utilize this program 
assist the Committee in conducting its essential and important 
work?
    Mr. Jordan. Well, I mean, I talked to our staff about this, 
and they were like--they were just all thumbs up about it. 
Because, you know, as you all know, we do lots of 
investigations, probably more investigations out of our 
Committee last Congress than maybe the rest of the Committees 
combined. I do not know. We did a lot. I think we did 107 
different subpoenas, 154 investigations.
    Keeping all the documents that come in and everything else, 
it was critical. I think they gave me a number. We have 
received 4.8 million pages of documents.
    The system is so helpful to our staff. I do not understand 
the system but that is why we have smart staff that do. They 
tell me that we should thank all of you. I know I talked to the 
gentlelady from Oklahoma about this the other day. It has been 
very, very helpful, and we appreciate that.
    Ms. Lee. Well, and speaking of that smart staff, we 
appreciate all of the excellent work of the Judiciary Committee 
conducting oversight hearings and investigations, and we 
understand that this must require highly experienced and 
skilled staff.
    You have requested the Committee maintain its 2024 level of 
staff and funding. Could you provide some details on how the 
funding and staff slots will allow you to pursue your 
legislative and investigative agenda?
    Mr. Jordan. Yes. Thank you for that, too.
    As the gentlelady knows, we have an experienced staff, and 
we have some young, good, young, sharp lawyers who have come in 
and done great work for us as well. I mean, our general counsel 
has been here like 20-something years. Mr. Hixon has been 
around forever as well, Mr. Brewer. Just great Members or, 
excuse me, great staff members who do good work, and we want to 
keep them.
    We want to keep that great staff who put together the 
numerous--did the numerous investigations, numerous reports we 
did.
    I appreciate the Ranking Member with the budget, with the 
staff, and saying let us stick with--we are not asking for 
more. We just want to stick with where we are at because we 
think it is a good team, and we would like to keep all of them 
together.
    Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Chairman Steil. The gentlewoman yields back.
    I yield back.
    I recognize the Ranking Member for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you, Chairman Jordan and Ranking Member Raskin, for 
being here and for all the work that you are doing.
    Let me just begin with a question I have asked a number of 
the chairs and rankers, whether or not you are in conformity 
about the degree to which the minority will be able to use 
their allocation to make independent decisions with the amount 
that they have got appropriated to them.
    Mr. Chair?
    Mr. Jordan. I believe so. I know we did not--unlike some 
Committees, our organizational hearing was 30 minutes versus 
some of the 3-hour ones, and we have kept the rules the same. I 
believe we are--I think we are fine on all that.
    Mr. Morelle. OK. You are committed to allowing them 
independence?
    Mr. Jordan. Oh, yes.
    Mr. Morelle. Mr. Raskin, are you comfortable with the 
arrangement as it is playing out?
    Mr. Raskin. Yes. It has been working out fine. In reality, 
you know, I was Ranking Member of the Oversight Committee where 
we had two-thirds/one-third split on the whole budget. I think, 
on Judiciary, we do a two-third/one-third split on the payroll, 
and then we do go to ask them for their indulgence for 
particular expenditures.
    So far, they have been very paternalistic and respectful of 
our needs. I think it is all right. I mean, you know, if I were 
starting it from scratch, I would probably say just do it the 
oversight way, but it seems to be working fine.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you.
    Just a comment. We have talked a lot, and I think the chair 
made reference to the decision by the Supreme Court last year 
to do away with Chevron deference and the requirement that we 
will have to do much more in terms of specificity when we are 
doing authorizing language, that we will not be able to give 
the Secretaries greater flexibility than the law allows, which 
will require more of us.
    I think, particularly for me, one of the areas that is 
under your jurisdiction is artificial intelligence and 
generative AI. I am very concerned about the fact that we have 
no civil nor criminal sanctions against deepfake pornography, 
particularly, when it is used almost exclusively against women, 
and whether or not you feel you have the resources in this 
budget to adequately look at some of those issues and make sure 
that we are protecting the American public.
    I would ask each of you to just comment on that if you 
might.
    Mr. Jordan. Yes, we do, and we have a number of our Members 
who--I mean, we all share that concern, but we have some of our 
Members who brought forward legislation to address people who 
have been abused. Ms. Lee has carried some legislation that 
became law through the Committee last Congress on areas related 
to protecting kids, protecting women, protecting others.
    Yes, we certainly have the resources to dig into those 
areas.
    Mr. Morelle. Mr. Raskin?
    Mr. Raskin. Yes. My sense is that we have got the resources 
to deal with at least this generation of issues, the things 
like deepfakes and revenge porn. I have begun to dabble 
somewhat in the artificial intelligence literature, and there 
is a whole new generation of problems and issues coming. That 
would be without prejudice to perhaps our asking for budget 
adjustments in the future to deal with all these things.
    Mr. Morelle. Because certainly AI technology is miraculous 
in what it can do to advance many things, but it has a dark 
potential if misused, and obviously a lot of that will fall to 
your Committee.
    One thing I did want to ask and have asked other Members, 
or at least as much of an invitation as much as asking you for 
your opinion, but an invitation that, as you conduct field 
hearings, one of the things that we are very concerned about, 
the chair and I and the Members, is the threat against Members 
and the increased threats over the last several years we have 
seen.
    We want to make sure that, as you are conducting field 
hearings, you are coordinating with Capitol Police, local law 
enforcement, Sergeant at Arms. I do not know what your 
experience has been or whether you want to comment on it, but 
certainly an invitation to make sure we are doing everything we 
can to assist you to make sure Members and staff are safe as 
you are traveling around the country.
    Mr. Jordan. We take that very seriously. I mean, you all 
maybe have had to do the same thing we have. We have had to 
put--I do not normally talk about it, but we have had to put 
all kinds of security at our home back in Ohio. We just take 
that very, very seriously with our Members and when we are 
traveling and our staff.
    We have had protests. We had protests in New York and 
different things, but Capitol Police do a great job, and we 
work very closely with them.
    I will pledge to definitely work with the Ranking Member. 
We want everyone to be safe.
    Mr. Raskin. I would echo the Chairman on that. We greatly 
appreciate the hard work, the devotion, the valor of Capitol 
Police and the people in the Sergeant at Arms office. We know 
that the threat level has gone up. I have had to get peace 
orders in court, which is a tremendous investment of time, 
unfortunately, to go and do that.
    You know, I am glad that we have got this bipartisan 
consensus that the security of our Members is essential, and it 
is a huge distraction from people's work to have to deal with 
this. We appreciate the investments that you are making in the 
Capitol Police and the Sergeant at Arms to take care of all of 
us.
    Mr. Morelle. Well, dissent is protected by the First 
Amendment. Violence is not. I appreciate that, and please 
continue to inform us of your needs there.
    With that, I yield back.
    Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
    We appreciate both of your testimony. Very helpful as we 
compile the Committee budgets.
    The Committee will stand in pause while the witness panel 
exits.
    Thank you both.
    We welcome our next and for us last panel of a 2-day 
hearing as we examine Committee budgets. We have had a robust 
conversation of Chevron doctrine oversight.
    We are excited to have HASC before us to today. We will 
give each of you 5 minutes, Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member 
Smith, 5 minutes for an opening statement. Then we will have 5 
minutes total in the majority and in the minority for 
questions, yielding amongst ourselves.
    We will jump right in and recognize you, Chairman Rogers, 
for 5 minutes.

STATEMENT OF THE HON. MIKE ROGERS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS 
                   FROM THE STATE OF ALABAMA

    Mr. Rogers. Thank you, Chairman Steil and Ranking Member 
Morelle, for the opportunity to present the HASC funding 
request for the 119th Congress.
    I want to start by thanking you for all your tremendous 
support that we have had during the 118th Congress. The 
resources you provided enabled us to enact two NDAAs and expand 
our oversight of the Department of Defense at a very 
challenging time for our national security.
    I am here today with my friend, the Ranking Member, and my 
partner in leading the Armed Services Committee to respectfully 
request a modest increase in our budget for the 119th Congress. 
The budget we are requesting will enable us to accomplish three 
important goals for this Congress.
    First, it will allow us to hire new and retain existing 
staff. We are lucky to have a very experienced and talented 
staff. Most are former servicemembers with firsthand knowledge 
of the programs and platforms we authorize. Others are 
dedicated lawyers and staff with decades of experience in the 
House. This caliber of staff is critical to our ability to 
conduct rigorous oversight of the largest and most complex 
department of the Federal Government.
    Keeping and recruiting staff with talent is getting more 
and more difficult. We often lose good staff to the private 
sector. Being able to pay staff what they are worth is 
important to us. Your support of our budget request will enable 
us to do just that.
    Second, our request will enable us to expand the number of 
field hearings we can conduct. Thanks to your support last 
Congress, we were able to hold our very first field hearing in 
more than a decade. It was a huge success that enabled us to 
hear unique perspectives that we do not get here in D.C. We are 
looking to build on that success in the 119th Congress.
    Finally, our request will enable us to enhance the 
technology we rely on for our Committee operations and Member 
outreach. Each year we receive over 1,300 requests from Members 
for the provisions in the NDAA. At markup, we process over a 
thousand amendments. When we get to conference, we resolve 
differences on hundreds of legislative provisions and thousands 
of budget items.
    We rely on specialized software to track these Member 
priorities, process them, and turn them into an NDAA. We 
appreciate your support as we continue to update and maintain 
the system. We take the expenditure of taxpayer dollars 
seriously. We will always ensure the budget allocated to our 
Committee will be spent judiciously and prudently.
    Thank you for the consideration of our budget request.
    I yield back my time.
    Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
    Ranking Member Smith is recognized for 5 minutes.

STATEMENT OF THE HON. ADAM SMITH, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS 
                  FROM THE STATE OF WASHINGTON

    Mr. Smith of Washington. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I 
will be brief.
    I agree completely with everything that Chairman Rogers 
just said, and I just want to emphasize the first point he made 
and say thank you. This Committee was very generous to us last 
session. It made a huge difference because the staff needs that 
Chairman Rogers outlined are incredibly important to the 
oversight. It is enormously important to the largest 
bureaucracy in the world.
    We are working toward getting a full audit for the 
Pentagon, making sure that they are efficient and effective. 
The need is enormous right now given the challenges that we 
face in the world, the most complex threat environment that we 
have faced probably since the end of World War II.
    Your support for our Committee's ability to do its 
oversight is going to be crucial to our national security. I 
appreciate that support. The Chairman laid out what it goes to, 
and I just echo his remarks and ask you to support the modest 
increase that we are requesting.
    Thank you. I yield back.
    Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
    I recognize myself for 5 minutes.
    Thanks for the work that you do. I think you are accurate 
in describing the threat, the dangerous world that we live in. 
Uniquely now, your oversight role in the Department of Defense 
is essential.
    Before I get into my full questions, one question that I 
have just asked every chair and Ranking Member is, will you 
commit to having your systems administrator meet with the 
House's Chief Information Officer to discuss cybersecurity in 
the first quarter?
    Mr. Rogers. Yes.
    Mr. Smith of Washington. Absolutely.
    Chairman Steil. Thank you very much for that.
    In your report, you noted that you had a couple vacancies 
that were not filled due to an office space constraint. We have 
opened up space in Cannon. I want to make sure that you do not 
have constraints from us preventing you from hiring staff and 
particularly at a period of time when oversight of the 
Department of Defense is going to be absolutely essential.
    Has that been resolved, or is that an outstanding issue?
    Mr. Rogers. It is revolving itself very soon. We did have 
those constraints spacewise last Congress. We will not have 
them this Congress. We hope to be able to get up to our full 
authorization of staff.
    Chairman Steil. OK.
    As you look to fill out staff positions, obviously unique 
expertise is required in your staff. You are competing not only 
against the private sector but also from the majority side in 
particular with the administration making hires.
    Do you have any unique concerns in being able to fill those 
positions?
    Mr. Rogers. No. No, we will be able to get after it if we 
have the funding to pay them well. I mean, we are completing 
with a private sector that is robust.
    Chairman Steil. All right. I will yield to Mrs. Bice.
    Mrs. Bice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you, Chairman Rogers and Ranking Member Smith, for 
being with us this afternoon.
    You mentioned in your budget request that you will need an 
increase to update the technology used to build the NDAA and to 
cover the increases in the cost to support services. Could you 
elaborate a little bit on how essential this technology is to 
your Committee to manage the very large number of amendments 
that are submitted by Members?
    Mr. Rogers. Fortunately, our staff has been able to take a 
state-of-the-art software system and use it to process this 
huge volume, and they are leading the effort for authorizing 
Committees in the Congress on that. The problem is it is very 
expensive, and it has to be upgraded, and we are going to have 
to have the money to do that if we want to stay ahead of this 
volume.
    The good news is, is that we take care of our Members 
because we have the capability with the software. If we do not 
keep up with it, it is going to be hard to take Members' 
requests and turn them into law.
    Mr. Smith of Washington. I mean, you know the process of 
the Committee. By the time you add them all up, it is a couple 
thousand different requests just on the Committee, on the 
amendment process, you know, because there is the original 
idea, and then the idea will frequently splinter out into five 
different versions of the amendment. Members of the Committee 
do that.
    Then, of course, when we go to the floor, it opens up to 
everybody and the Rules Committee has to deal with that, but we 
have to deal with it as well to work with them. It is an 
incredibly high volume. Being able to process that quickly with 
the best technology helps us serve the Members of the House.
    Mrs. Bice. I want to say thank you both for your commitment 
to making sure that we are doing everything that we can to 
promote and support our military branches and our servicemen 
and women across the world. I miss being on HASC but now, an 
appropriator, can do my part to support you as well.
    Thank you for being with us this afternoon.
    Mr. Chairman. I yield.
    Chairman Steil. The gentlelady yields back.
    I would just echo the comments. We appreciate the work that 
you do. There is robust oversight needed at the Department of 
Defense, and you have the opportunity to provide that for us.
    I will yield back.
    I recognize the Ranking Member for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you both very much for being here. I had 
the great privilege, like Mrs. Bice, of serving on House Armed 
Services for, unfortunately, only for a couple of years but now 
get to serve on the Appropriations Defense Subcommittee.
    I appreciate very much your work and your work in a 
bipartisan fashion on behalf of the American public. I have no 
reason to doubt that that will continue, but I am very, very 
grateful for it, particularly in an environment that seems far 
too partisan I think to many of us.
    I just want to get some confirmation. My understanding is 
that the Ranking Member has the independence in terms of his 
part of the budget. I want to make sure that continues. I 
assume that has always been the case. I would hope it would 
continue.
    Mr. Rogers. Absolutely.
    Mr. Smith of Washington. Now, we do have a substantial 
portion of our budget that is joint, which I think we are the 
only Committee that does that, and that I would say is 
essential to our work. As the majorities have bounced back and 
forth, we have the consistency of the staff. Many of the 
Members who worked for me when I was the Chairman, you know, 
worked for Mike, and that institutional knowledge is crucial.
    Then we do have portions of our budget, and as the member 
of the minority now going on my third year with Mr. Rogers as 
Chairman, it has been a great working relationship. I have no 
complaints.
    Mr. Morelle. I frankly always appreciated that the NDAA has 
largely been bipartisan. I hope that certainly continues.
    We talked a lot here about our oversight responsibilities 
and asked the chairs of the various authorizing Committees and 
Ranking Members about whether their resources that they are 
requesting are adequate to fulfill article I responsibilities, 
particularly given both the threats that we face around the 
world and, frankly, given some of the changes in the 
administration's posture on how America engages around the 
world.
    Are you confident you have what you need in terms of your 
request to fulfill those article I oversight responsibilities?
    Mr. Rogers. Well, with regard to our oversight 
responsibilities, with this 5-percent increase, we do feel 
confident we will be able to do that. Although, you will hear 
us throughout this Congress talking about the need for 
dramatically increased defense spending in the Department of 
Defense.
    The 5 percent we are asking for here today will be 
sufficient.
    Mr. Morelle. Are you comfortable as well, to the Ranking 
Member?
    Mr. Smith of Washington. Yes, absolutely, in terms of the 
Committee. I mean, the Chairman is sensitive to that sort of 
question because there is a lot of focus on what the actual 
size the defense budget should be. As you know, the debate 
through the reconciliation process, we are still trying to get 
Fiscal Year 2025 done. I think the variables between where it 
could be are about as wide as I have ever seen here.
    The Chairman wants to make that point, to not lose track of 
the overarching needs, but that is not your direct problem. 
That is working on the Committee side.
    Mr. Morelle. Last thing I would ask, I do not know how much 
you are doing in terms of field hearings or hearings outside 
Washington, but just curious if you feel you are receiving the 
necessary security support from the Capitol Police, Sergeant at 
Arms, and in coordination with local law enforcement when you 
venture outside of the Washington?
    Mr. Rogers. Absolutely.
    Mr. Morelle. Well, I would invite you--before I yield, the 
chair and I remain very, very concerned about the threat 
environment against Members and staff. Just invite you to make 
sure that you keep us informed of any challenges you have or 
any concerns that you have in that regard. We want to make 
sure, whether we are at Washington or we are elsewhere, that we 
have all the resources necessary to protect people and staff 
when they travel about.
    I invite you to share your concerns with us over time.
    With that, I thank you again both for your leadership and 
all your service.
    Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
    We thank the chair and Ranking Member for your testimony 
today. Very helpful as we work to fulfill our commitment to 
finalize the budget for the Committees of the House.
    This is the last hearing. I thank our Members as well for 
their participation over 2 days.
    Without objection, each Member, including our witnesses, 
will have 5 legislative days to insert additional materials 
into the record or to revise and extend their remarks.
    If there is no further business, I thank the Members for 
their participation.
    Without objection, the Committee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:37 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]