[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                   H.R. 231, H.R. 261, H.R. 331, AND
                     H.R. ____, ``WATERSMART ACCESS
                            FOR TRIBES ACT''

=======================================================================
 
                          LEGISLATIVE HEARING

                               before the

                   SUBCOMMITTEE ON WATER, WILDLIFE AND
                                FISHERIES

                                 of the

                     COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION
                               __________

                       Thursday, January 23, 2025
                               __________

                            Serial No. 119-2
                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Natural Resources





               [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]





        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
                                   or
          Committee address: http://naturalresources.house.gov
                                ______
                                
                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

58-472 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2025





























                     COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES

                     BRUCE WESTERMAN, AR, Chairman
                  ROBERT J. WITTMAN, VA, Vice Chairman
                   JARED HUFFMAN, CA, Ranking Member

Robert J. Wittman, VA                Raul M. Grijalva, AZ         
Tom McClintock, CA                   Joe Neguse, CO           
Paul Gosar, AZ                       Teresa Leger Fernandez, NM                      
Aumua Amata C. Radewagen, AS         Melanie A. Stansbury, NM                
Doug LaMalfa, CA                     Val T. Hoyle, OR                                       
Daniel Webster, FL                   Seth Magaziner, RI                   
Russ Fulcher, ID                     Jared Golden, ME                     
Pete Stauber, MN                     Dave Min, CA                               
Tom Tiffany, WI                      Maxine Dexter, OR                                 
Lauren Boebert, CO                   Pablo Jose Hernandez, PR                            
Cliff Bentz, OR                      Emily Randall, WA                                 
Jen Kiggans, VA                      Yassamin Ansari, AZ                           
Wesley P. Hunt, TX                   Sarah Elfreth, MD                            
Mike Collins, GA                     Adam Gray, CA                              
Harriet M. Hageman, WY               Luz Rivas, CA                                
Mark Amodei, NV                      Nydia M. Velazquez, NY                         
Tim Walberg, MI                      Debbie Dingell, MI                    
Mike Ezell, MS                       Darren Soto, FL                         
Celeste Maloy, UT                    Julia Brownley, CA                         
Addison McDowell, NC                                            
Jeff Crank, CO                                       
Nick Begich, AK
Jeff Hurd, CO
Mike Kennedy, UT                              

                    Vivian Moeglein, Staff Director
                  William David, Acting Chief Counsel
               Ana Unruh Cohen, Democratic Staff Director
                   http://naturalresources.house.gov
                   
                                 ------                                

             SUBCOMMITTEE ON WATER, WILDLIFE AND FISHERIES

                     HARRIET M. HAGEMAN, WY, Chair
                       MIKE EZELL, MS, Vice Chair
                    VAL T. HOYLE, OR, Ranking Member

Robert J. Wittman, VA                Seth Magaziner, RI
Tom McClintock, CA                   Debbie Dingell, MI
Aumua Amata C. Radewagen, AS         Melanie A. Stansbury, NM
Doug LaMalfa, CA                     Jared Golden, ME
Daniel Webster, FL                   Dave Min, CA
Lauren Boebert, CO                   Sarah Elfreth, MD
Cliff Bentz, OR                      Adam Gray, CA
Jen Kiggans, VA                      Luz Rivas, CA
Tim Walberg, MI                      Darren Soto, FL
Mike Ezell, MS                       Julia Brownley, CA
Celeste Maloy, UT                    Joe Neguse, CO
Addison McDowell, NC                 Jared Huffman, CA, ex officio
Jeff Crank, CO
Bruce Westerman, AR, ex officio

                                 ------
                                 



























                                 
                               CONTENTS

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

Hearing Memo.....................................................     v
Hearing held on Thursday, January 23, 2025.......................     1

Statement of Members:

    Hageman, Hon. Harriet M., a Representative in Congress from 
      the State of Wyoming.......................................     2
    Hoyle, Hon. Val T., a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Oregon............................................     3
    Huffman, Hon. Jared, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of California........................................     5
    Stansbury, Hon. Melanie A., a Representative in Congress from 
      the State of New Mexico....................................     7
    Carter, Hon. Buddy, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Georgia...........................................    12
    Fulcher, Hon. Russ, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Arizona, prepared statement of....................    45

Statement of Witnesses:

    Thayn, Nathan, Owner, Thayn Farms, Green River, Utah.........     9
        Prepared statement of....................................    10
    Toombs, Denise, Advisor, International Connectivity 
      Coalition, San Francisco, California.......................    14
        Prepared statement of....................................    15
    Witherspoon, Dwight, Water Rights Unit Attorney, Navajo 
      Nation Department of Justice, Window Rock, Arizona.........    21
        Prepared statement of....................................    22
    Hipke, Wesley, Water Projects Section Manager, Idaho 
      Department of Water Resources, Boise, Idaho................    23
        Prepared statement of....................................    25

Additional Materials Submitted for the Record:

    Submissions for the Record by Representative Hoyle

        San Francisco Chronicle, How Meta, Google and Amazon are 
          quietly damaging the Pacific sea floor.................    46
        U.S. Department of the Interior, Bureau of Land 
          Management, Right-of-Way Costs.........................    48
        National Park Service, Right-of-Way Permit...............    49
        Office of National Marine Sanctuaries, Special Use 
          Permits................................................    50
        Northern Chumash Tribal Council, Letter to the Committee.    52

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


To:        Committee on Natural Resources Republican Members

From:     Committee on Natural Resources staff: Annick Miller, x58331 
        ([email protected]), Doug Levine (doug.levine@mail. 
        house.gov), Kirby Struhar ([email protected]), and 
        Thomas Shipman ([email protected])

Date:     January 21, 2025

Subject:   Legislative Hearing on H.R. 231, H.R. 261, H.R. 331, and 
        H.R. ____ (Rep. Stansbury)
________________________________________________________________________
        _______

    The Subcommittee on Water, Wildlife and Fisheries will hold a 
legislative hearing on H.R. 231 (Rep. Hageman), ``Colorado River Basin 
System Conservation Extension Act''; H.R. 261 (Rep. Carter of GA), 
``Undersea Cable Protection Act''; H.R. 331 (Rep. Fulcher), To amend 
the Aquifer Recharge Flexibility Act to clarify a provision relating to 
conveyances for aquifer recharge purposes; and H.R. ____ (Rep. 
Stansbury) ``WaterSMART Access for Tribes Act'' on Thursday, January 
23, 2025, at 10 a.m. EST in 1324 Longworth House Office Building.

    Member offices are requested to notify Lindsay Walton (lindsay. 
[email protected]) by 4:30 p.m. on Wednesday, January 22, 2025, if 
their Member intends to participate in the hearing.

I. KEY MESSAGES

     House Republicans are holding a hearing on two bills that 
            combat the effects of long--standing drought in the 
            American West and another bill that prevents federal marine 
            sanctuary designations from negatively impacting the 
            undersea cable network in the United States.

     H.R. 231 would reauthorize the Colorado River Basin 
            Conservation Pilot Program through FY 2026.

     H.R. 331 amends the Aquifer Recharge Flexibility Act to 
            clarify and streamline the process for transporting water 
            for aquifer recharge projects across federal land.

     H.R. 261 would prevent the Secretary of Commerce from 
            requiring additional permitting for fiber optic cable 
            projects that have already been authorized by a Federal or 
            State agency, within a National Marine Sanctuary.

II. WITNESSES

Panel I

     Members of Congress TBD
Panel II

     Mr. Wesley Hipke, Water Projects Section Manager, Idaho 
            Department of Water Resources, Boise, ID [H.R. 331]

     Ms. Denise Toombs, Advisor, International Connectivity 
            Coalition, San Franscisco, CA [H.R. 261]

     Mr. Nathan Thayn, Owner, Thayn Farms, Green River, UT 
            [H.R. 231]

     The Hon. Buu Nygren, President, Navajo Nation, Window 
            Rock, AZ [H.R. ____ (Stansbury)]

III. BACKGROUND

H.R. 231 (Rep. Hageman, R-WY), ``Colorado River Basin System 
        Conservation Extension Act of 2025''

    The Colorado River Basin (Basin) covers seven states (Arizona, 
California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah, and Wyoming) and the 
Republic of Mexico (see Map 1). In the United States, the Basin 
provides water for the irrigation of nearly 4.5 million acres, 
municipal water supply to about 40 million people, and supports 
hydropower facilities that can generate more than 4,200 megawatts (MW) 
of electricity.\1\ Within the Basin, there are seven National Wildlife 
Refuges and 11 National Park Service units.\2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ U.S. Bureau of Reclamation, Colorado River Basin Report, March 
2021, https://www.usbr.gov/climate/secure/docs/2021secure/basinreports/
ColoradoBasin.pdf.
    \2\ Id.
    
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    The Colorado River is one of the most developed, regulated, and 
negotiated rivers in the United States. It has numerous diversions, 
several major dams, and reservoirs. It is managed through multiple 
compacts, laws, regulatory guidelines, contracts, court decisions, and 
decrees (collectively known as the ``Law of the River'').\3\ Since 
2000, the Basin has experienced historically dry conditions, and the 
combined storage in Lake Powell (the reservoir created by Glen Canyon 
Dam) and Lake Mead (the reservoir created by the Hoover Dam) reached 
the lowest levels since Lake Powell initially began filling in the 
1960s.\4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ U.S. Bureau of Reclamation, Law of the River, https://
www.usbr.gov/lc/region/pao/lawofrvr.html
    \4\ https://www.usbr.gov/dcp/docs/
DCP%20Basin%20States%20Transmittal%20Letter%20and %20attachments.pdf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In 2014, the Bureau of Reclamation (Reclamation), the Colorado 
River Basin States, and Colorado River water users explored ideas that 
could mitigate the impacts of the ongoing drought in the Colorado River 
Basin.\5\ One idea was the System Conservation Pilot Program (SCPP), a 
4-year pilot program designed to explore solutions to address declining 
water levels in Lake Mead and Lake Powell and the potential for long-
term drought in the Upper Colorado River Basin.\6\ The program 
implemented and tested on-the-ground voluntary water conservation 
opportunities that may help manage ongoing record drought conditions in 
the Colorado River Basin.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ U.S. Bureau of Reclamation, Pilot Projects to Increase Colorado 
River System Water in Lake Powell and Lake Mead, August 2021, https://
www.usbr.gov/lc/region/programs/LCBConservation&EfficiencyProgram/
report_to_congress W_appendices2021.pdf.
    \6\ Upper Colorado River Commission, SYSTEM CONSERVATION PILOT 
PROGRAM (2015-2018), http://www.ucrcommission.com/system-conservation-
pilot-program/.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The SCPP originally concluded in 2018. From 2015-2017, the Upper 
Basin SCPP funded 45 projects, for a consumptive use reduction of 
approximately 22,116 acre-feet at a total cost of $4.5 million.\7\ In 
2022, this program was authorized until September 30, 2024.\8\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \7\ Upper Colorado River Commission, Final Report Colorado River 
System Conservation Pilot Program in the Upper Colorado River Basin, 
February 2018. http://www.ucrcommission.com/RepDoc/SCPPDocuments/
2018_SCPP_FUBRD.pdf
    \8\ Pub. L. 117-328, div. CC, Sec. 102, Dec. 29, 2022, 136 Stat. 
5573.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    H.R. 231 would extend the program's funding authorization until 
September 30, 2026, and require the Secretary of the Interior 
(Secretary) to report to Congress on the continued effectiveness of the 
program by September 30, 2027.
    The SCPP allows the Secretary to provide grants 1) to public 
entities for water conservation pilot projects if the entity uses water 
from the Colorado River Basin for municipal purposes; and 2) for new 
water conservation agreements or for renewing or implementing water 
conservation agreements.\9\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \9\ 43 U.S.C. Sec. 620 note; Public Law 113-235.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
H.R. 261 (Rep. Carter, R-GA), ``Undersea Cable Protection Act''

    Undersea cables have been used for more than 170 years,\10\ and are 
largely responsible for the growth of international telecommunications 
systems in recent decades. The current undersea cable network connects 
every continent except Antarctica and ``carries about 95% of 
intercontinental global internet traffic, and 99% of transoceanic 
digital communications . . . including trillions in international 
financial transactions daily.'' \11\ In 2023, the global market for 
this technology was valued at $23 billion, and is projected to more 
than double to $53 billion by 2030.\12\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \10\ Congressional Research Service. Undersea Telecommunication 
Cables: Technology Overview and Issues for Congress. September 13, 
2022. https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R47237
    \11\ Id
    \12\ Global Industry Analysts. Submarine Optical Fiber Cables. July 
2024. https://www.marketresearch.com/Global-Industry-Analysts-v1039/
Submarine-Optical-Fiber-Cables-37720172/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) grants cable landing 
licenses for 25 years. However, like many other types of projects, the 
process to site, install, and approve these cables typically involves 
numerous agencies at the federal, state, and local levels. According to 
the North American Submarine Cable Association (NASCA), over the last 
20 years, ``no new cables have been constructed within any existing 
national marine sanctuary . . . due to regulatory uncertainty, outright 
opposition from particular sanctuary leadership in contravention of the 
National Marine Sanctuaries Act (``NMSA''), and excessive regulatory 
burdens and fees.'' \13\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \13\ Comments of the North American Submarine Cable Association. 
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Notice of Modification 
to the Special Use Permit (SUP) Category for the Continued Presence of 
Commercial Submarine Cables within the National Marine Sanctuary 
System. October 1, 2024. https://www.regulations.gov/comment/NOAA-NOS-
2024-0089-0007
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Under the NMSA, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric 
Administration's (NOAA) Office of National Marine Sanctuaries ``may 
designate any discrete area of the marine environment as a national 
marine sanctuary,'' \14\ if it is determined that the area is ``of 
special national significance'' \15\ or will ``ensure coordinated and 
comprehensive conservation and management of the area.'' \16\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \14\ National Marine Sanctuaries Act. As amended by P.L. 106-513, 
November 2000. https://nmssanctuaries.blob.core.windows.net/
sanctuaries-prod/media/archive/library/national/nmsa.pdf
    \15\ Id.
    \16\ Id.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In amendments to the NMSA that were enacted in 1998, Congress gave 
NOAA the authority to issue Special Use Permits (SUPs) for certain 
categories of activities within a national marine sanctuary, if it is 
determined that the activity is needed to establish access to its 
resources or ``promote public use and understanding of a sanctuary 
resource.'' \17\ To grant a SUP, the Secretary of Commerce must provide 
public notice of the activity and is only allowed to authorize the 
activity for a period of five years.\18\ These SUPs can often take 
years to acquire and can come with additional burdens and costs.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \17\ National Marine Sanctuaries Act. Section 310. Special Use 
Permits. https://nmssanctuaries.blob.core.windows.net/sanctuaries-prod/
media/archive/library/national/nmsa.pdf
    \18\ Id.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In 2002, NOAA created five categories of SUPs to comply with the 
NMSA amendments, one of which was ``the maintenance of submarine cables 
beneath or on the seabed.'' \19\ In 2006, this category was amended to 
include the ``continued presence'' of submarine cables and clarified 
that the SUP solely applies to ``commercial'' cables.\20\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \19\ National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Notice of 
Modification to the Special Use Permit (SUP) Category for the Continued 
Presence of Commercial Submarine Cables Within the National Marine 
Sanctuary System. Notice; Request for Comments. August 16, 2024. 
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2024/08/16/2024-18099/notice-
of-modification-to-the-special-use-permit-sup-category-for-the-
continued-presence-of
    \20\ Id.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    On August 16, 2024, NOAA issued a notice to modify the SUP category 
for undersea cables, stating that the category ``does not apply to 
commercial submarine cables in any new sanctuaries designated after 
August 16, 2024.'' \21\ Therefore, for that two-year period, ``NOAA 
will not require or issue SUPs for the continued presence of commercial 
submarine cables on or within the submerged lands of newly designated 
sanctuaries.'' \22\ This notice also applied to new cables in 
sanctuaries that are designated in the two-year period.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \21\ Id.
    \22\ Id.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    H.R. 261 would make permanent NOAA's decision to no longer require 
SUPs for telecommunications submarine cables in a marine sanctuary and 
would apply this decision and prohibit any other NOAA authorization for 
all existing and future cables within the boundaries of any marine 
sanctuary. The bill amends NMSA to prohibit NOAA from requiring ``any 
authorization for the installation, continued presence, operation, 
maintenance, repair, or recovery of undersea fiber optic cables in a 
national marine sanctuary'' if such activity is already permitted or 
approved by a Federal or state agency.\23\ The legislation effectively 
eliminates the SUP process and other redundant NOAA authorizations for 
submarine cables, relying on the existing, robust federal and state 
permitting processes to authorize these cables within national marine 
sanctuaries. This will provide more clarity and certainty for project 
developers and encourage investment in this infrastructure, which is 
critical for long-term economic security. It will also bolster our 
national security by promoting increased route diversity for cables 
while maintaining the existing protection of our marine resources.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \23\ The Undersea Cable Protection Act. https://
naturalresources.house.gov/uploadedfiles/cartga_003_xml1.pdf

H.R. 331 (Rep. Fulcher, R-ID), To amend the Aquifer Recharge 
        Flexibility Act to clarify a provision relating to conveyances 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        for aquifer recharge purposes.

    The Aquifer Recharge Flexibility Act (P.L. 116-260) was enacted in 
2020 to facilitate aquifer recharge using federal infrastructure. In 
many Reclamation states, aquifer recharge programs include using 
existing irrigation canals and ditches to seep and percolate water into 
an aquifer. Many existing irrigation canals and ditches cross lands 
owned by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM). The irrigation canal 
owners already have right-of-way (ROW) with the BLM for their 
irrigation canals. The Aquifer Recharge Flexibility Act streamlined the 
process for water managers to conduct aquifer recharge.
    H.R. 331 would amend the Aquifer Recharge Flexibility Act to allow 
the holder of a ROW grant approved by the BLM, acting on behalf of 
themselves or a third party, to use the existing ROW for the purposes 
of aquifer recharge without further authorization from the Secretary of 
the Interior. The bill further clarifies that this use shall not be 
considered an expansion or modification. This change would ensure that 
the intent of the current law can be fully implemented.

H.R. ____ (Rep. Stansbury, D-NM) ``WaterSMART Access for Tribes Act''

    The bill would allow the Secretary of the Interior to reduce or 
waive cost-share requirements for tribal governments under 
Reclamation's WaterSMART program. It is unclear what metrics 
Reclamation will use to determine ``that the Indian tribe does not have 
sufficient funds to pay such cost share'' as the bill requires.
    Reclamation provides funding opportunities through the WaterSMART 
program for projects and activities to increase water efficiency and 
conservation. This includes cost-shared grants for water management 
improvement projects such as canal lining and piping, watershed 
resilience projects, the Basin Study Program, and drought planning and 
implementation actions to address future water shortages.\24\ Most 
WaterSMART projects require at least 50 percent cost sharing to 
leverage non-federal financial resources.\25\ In the 116th Congress, 
WaterSMART was amended to allow Reclamation to contribute up to 75 
percent of the cost of certain projects that are focused on 
environmental benefits.\26\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \24\ U.S. Bureau of Reclamation, WaterSMART, https://www.usbr.gov/
watersmart/
    \25\ Id.
    \26\ P.L. 116-260, Division FF, Title XI--Western Water and Indian 
Affairs.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
IV. MAJOR PROVISIONS & ANALYSIS

H.R. 231 (Rep. Hageman, R-WY), ``Colorado River Basin System 
        Conservation Extension Act of 2025''

     Reauthorizes the Colorado River System Conservation Pilot 
            Program through Fiscal Year 2026.


H.R. 261 (Rep. Carter, R-GA), ``Undersea Cable Protection Act''

     Prevents NOAA from prohibiting or requiring any 
            authorization for the installation, continued presence, 
            operation, maintenance, repair, or recovery of undersea 
            fiber optic cables in a national marine sanctuary if such 
            activity is already permitted or approved by a Federal or 
            state agency.


H.R. 331 (Rep. Fulcher, R-ID), To amend the Aquifer Recharge 
        Flexibility Act to clarify a provision relating to conveyances 
        for aquifer recharge purposes.

     Amends the Aquifer Recharge Flexibility Act to clarify 
            that no additional permits or authorizations are needed to 
            transport water across BLM-managed lands for aquifer 
            recharge purposes. In addition, the bill introduces a 30-
            day notice requirement on local entities planning to use 
            BLM infrastructure for aquifer recharge.


H.R. ____ (Rep. Stansbury, D-NM) ``WaterSMART Access for Tribes Act''

     Gives the Department of the Interior the authority to 
            reduce or waive cost-share requirements for tribal 
            governments under Reclamation's WaterSMART program.

V. EFFECT ON CURRENT LAW

H.R. 231

https://naturalresources.house.gov/uploadedfiles/bill-to-
law_hagema_013_xml.pdf
H.R. 261

https://naturalresources.house.gov/uploadedfiles/bill-to-
law_cartga_003_xml1.pdf
H.R. 331

https://naturalresources.house.gov/uploadedfiles/ramseyer_-
_h.r._331.pdf
Rep. Stansbury Bill

https://naturalresources.house.gov/uploadedfiles/bill-to-
law_h.r.____stansbury.pdf
                                     

   LEGISLATIVE HEARING ON H.R. 231, TO AMEND THE ENERGY
    AND  WATER  DEVELOPMENT  AND  RELATED  AGENCIES AP-
    PROPRIATIONS   ACT,   2015,   TO   REAUTHORIZE  THE
    COLORADO  RIVER  SYSTEM   CONSERVATION  PILOT  PRO-
    GRAM,  ``COLORADO RIVER BASIN  SYSTEM  CONSERVATION
    EXTENSION ACT OF 2025''; H.R. 261, TO AMEND THE NA-
    TIONAL MARINE  SANCTUARIES  ACT TO PROHIBIT REQUIR-
    ING AN AUTHORIZATION FOR THE INSTALLATION,  CONTIN-
    UED PRESENCE,  OPERATION,  MAINTENANCE,  REPAIR, OR
    RECOVERY  OF  UNDERSEA  FIBER OPTIC CABLES IN A NA-
    TIONAL  MARINE  SANCTUARY  IF  SUCH ACTIVITIES HAVE
    PREVIOUSLY  BEEN  AUTHORIZED  BY A FEDERAL OR STATE
    AGENCY, ``UNDERSEA  CABLE PROTECTION ACT OF 2025''; 
    H.R. 331, TO AMEND THE AQUIFER RECHARGE FLEXIBILITY
    ACT TO CLARIFY A PROVISION  RELATING TO CONVEYANCES
    FOR AQUIFER RECHARGE PURPOSES;  AND  H.R. ____,  TO 
    AMEND THE  OMNIBUS PUBLIC  LAND  MANAGEMENT  ACT OF
    2009 TO INCREASE  TRIBAL ACCESS TO  WATER CONSERVA-
    TION  AND  EFFICIENCY GRANTS,  AND FOR  OTHER  PUR-
    POSES, ``WATERSMART ACCESS FOR TRIBES ACT''

                              ----------                              

                       Thursday, January 23, 2025

                     U.S. House of Representatives

             Subcommittee on Water, Wildlife and Fisheries

                     Committee on Natural Resources

                            Washington, D.C.

                              ----------                              

    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in 
Room 1324, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Harriet 
Hageman [Chair of the Subcommittee] presiding.

    Present: Representatives Hageman, Radewagen, Walberg, 
Ezell, Maloy, McDowell, Crank; Hoyle, Stansbury, Golden, Min, 
Elfreth, Gray, Rivas, and Huffman.
    Also present: Representative Carter.

    Ms. Hageman. The Subcommittee on Water, Wildlife and 
Fisheries will come to order.
    Good morning, everyone, and I want to welcome the Members, 
the witnesses, and our guests in the audience for today's 
hearing.
    Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a 
recess of the Subcommittee at any time.
    Under Committee Rule 4(f), any oral opening statements at 
hearings are limited to the Chair and the Ranking Member. I 
therefore ask unanimous consent that all other Members' opening 
statements be made part of the hearing record if they are 
submitted in accordance with Committee Rule 3(o).
    Without objection, so ordered.
    I also ask unanimous consent that the Congressman from 
Idaho, Mr. Fulcher, and the Congressman from Georgia, Mr. 
Carter, be allowed to participate in today's hearing.
    Without objection, so ordered.
    We are here today to consider four legislative measures: 
H.R. 231, the Colorado River Basin System Conservation 
Extension Act of 2025, sponsored by myself; H.R. 261, the 
Undersea Cable Protection Act of 2025, sponsored by 
Representative Carter of Georgia; H.R. 331, to amend the 
Aquifer Recharge Flexibility Act to clarify a provision 
relating to conveyances for aquifer recharge purposes, 
sponsored by Representative Fulcher of Idaho; and the 
WaterSMART Access for Tribes Act, sponsored by Representative 
Stansbury of New Mexico.
    I now recognize myself for a 5-minute opening statement.

      STATEMENT OF THE HON. HARRIET M. HAGEMAN, A REP-
       RESENTATIVE   IN   CONGRESS   FROM   THE  STATE
       OF WYOMING

    Ms. Hageman. Again, I want to welcome everyone to the 
Committee on Natural Resources' first legislative hearing of 
the 119th Congress.
    There are several new faces at the Subcommittee and, for 
those of you who don't know me, my name is Harriet Hageman and 
I represent the great State of Wyoming. I am a litigator by 
trade, and have spent my career challenging Federal overreach, 
protecting water and property rights, exposing Federal land and 
wildlife mismanagement, and fighting back against the 
unconstitutional and unlawful acts of unelected bureaucrats. I 
am very honored to serve as the Chair for the Subcommittee on 
Water, Wildlife and Fisheries.
    I also want to thank Congressman Bentz for his leadership 
of the Subcommittee during the past two Congresses.
    Today, the Subcommittee will consider four bills. Three of 
these center on the Bureau of Reclamation's work in the West.
    First we have H.R. 231, which I sponsored, and would 
reauthorize the Colorado River Basin System Conservation Pilot 
Program, or SCPP, through Fiscal Year 2026. The Colorado River 
basin is one of the most developed, regulated, and negotiated 
rivers in the United States and in our history. I know. I have 
done a lot of work in that basin. It has numerous diversions, 
several major dams, and is managed through multiple compacts, 
laws, regulatory guidelines, contracts, court decisions, and 
decrees. The basin is also experiencing long-term drought 
conditions.
    While many actions have been taken to address drought in 
the basin, my legislation seeks to reauthorize a program that 
has demonstrated that voluntary, compensated water conservation 
projects can conserve water for Colorado River system storage 
to help mitigate the impacts of the drought. To be clear, this 
program is not and should not be viewed as a permanent solution 
to addressing the drought conditions in the basin. However, at 
this time it is a tool that the upper basin States can use to 
reduce risk to test new innovative water management strategies.
    While we are not discussing broader Colorado River basin 
issues today, I do want to say that this Committee is committed 
to working with the Trump administration, the Tribes, the seven 
basin States, their congressional delegation, and stakeholders 
to find a post-2026 solution.
    Our second bill, H.R. 331, sponsored by Congressman 
Fulcher, clarifies the intent of the Aquifer Recharge 
Flexibility Act to ensure that the Bureau of Land Management 
understands that third parties such as the Idaho Water 
Resources Board, who is testifying before us today, can utilize 
a right-of-way to transport water for aquifer recharge 
purposes.
    Our third Reclamation bill is sponsored by Congresswoman 
Stansbury, and would allow the Secretary of the Interior to 
reduce or waive cost share requirements for tribal governments 
under Reclamation's WaterSMART program. This program, which is 
already over-subscribed, helps fund infrastructure improvement 
projects such as canal lining or piping to conserve and use 
water more efficiently.
    Our fourth bill, H.R. 261 sponsored by Congressman Buddy 
Carter, would prevent the Secretary of Commerce from requiring 
additional permitting for fiber optic cable projects that go 
through a national marine sanctuary if they have already been 
authorized by a Federal or State agency. Undersea networks are 
a major component of our global connectivity, enhancing the 
security of these cables and promoting, rather than deterring, 
their deployment and maintenance will protect our national and 
economic security and ensure that we are connected to the rest 
of the world.
    Again, I want to take the time to thank our witnesses for 
being here today, and I look forward to a robust conversation.
    I now recognize Ranking Member Hoyle for her opening 
statement.
    And I want to say that I look forward to working with you 
during the 119th Congress as we move forward on these important 
issues.

      STATEMENT OF THE HON. VAL T. HOYLE, A REPRESENTATIVE
             IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF OREGON

    Ms. Hoyle. Thank you, Chair Hageman.
    Good afternoon, everyone. Well, it is not afternoon, is it? 
It is morning. Good morning, everyone. I am excited to serve as 
Ranking Member of the Water, Wildlife and Fisheries 
Subcommittee, and I look forward to working with Chair Hageman 
on protecting America's natural resources.
    I also want to thank Chair Bentz for his service, and it 
just made sense that we would have another Oregonian in 
leadership on this Committee as water is so critically 
important in the Pacific Northwest and in this country.
    Now, I want to be clear. Climate change is having a 
profound impact on our natural world. We are seeing drought, 
weather changing from historic norms, leading to a strain on 
our on our environment, economy, and national security. The 
devastation in Los Angeles is just one example. Record-high 
temperatures, dry vegetation combined with intense winds is 
causing an inconceivable amount of harm.
    Because of what we are facing as we keep breaking global 
temperature records, one of the most important things this 
Committee can do is help local communities better manage and 
conserve their water resources. This is what the three water 
bills in this hearing today do.
    H.R. 231, the Colorado River Basin System Conservation Act, 
would reauthorize the System Conservation Pilot Program to 
support voluntary water conservation projects to address 
drought impacts in the upper basin through 2026.
    I am also really happy to see Representative Stansbury's 
WaterSMART Access for Tribes Act, which authorizes the 
Secretary of the Interior to reduce or waive the non-Federal 
cost share requirements for Tribes receiving WaterSMART grants, 
including on today's agenda. This legislation will help remove 
a financial barrier for Tribes to increase drought and climate 
change resiliency. I hope we can work together to quickly 
advance this legislation and tribal water settlements through 
the Committees to support Tribes' access to reliable water 
sources.
    H.R. 331, the Aquifer Recharge Flexibility Act amendments, 
would make it harder for communities and Tribes to have input 
on water management, while it allows third parties to use an 
existing Bureau of Land Management right-of-way, easement 
permit, or other authorization for aquifer recharge without 
further authorization from the Secretary. It also classifies 
this as not a major Federal action, all but guaranteeing these 
aquifer recharge projects are exempt from NEPA review. I hope 
the bill's sponsor will work with us to us to address this 
concern.
    The one bill that we feel needs major changes is H.R. 261, 
the Undersea Cable Protection Act. First and foremost, we need 
to make sure the purposes of the national marine sanctuaries 
and the natural, cultural, and historical resources are 
considered when permits are approved. These areas are some of 
our most cherished ecosystems and help thousands of small 
businesses nationwide, including the very robust and important 
commercial fishing industry in Oregon and the Pacific 
Northwest. National marine sanctuaries are our Nation's marine 
national parks.
    I recognize that fiber optic cables are less destructive 
than many other activities and necessary for our economy and 
national security, and I believe we can find a solution that we 
all agree on that balances the need for fiber optic cables and 
protecting and preserving our ocean ecosystems. We need to make 
the language less ambiguous and allow NOAA to continue to 
charge fair market rate and assess damages if necessary, and 
protect NOAA's authority to carry out the National Marine 
Sanctuary Act. If we get it right, it will help ensure the 
build-out of critical infrastructure in America and protect the 
sanctuary resources that local economies and small businesses 
depend on.
    I look forward to fighting for the health and 
sustainability of our water, wildlife, and fisheries, and thank 
you to the witnesses for participating in today's hearing. I 
look forward to hearing from each of you.
    With that, I yield back.

    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. I now recognize Ranking Member 
Huffman for his opening statement.

      STATEMENT OF THE HON. JARED HUFFMAN, A REPRESENTA-
        TIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

    Mr. Huffman. Thank you, Madam Chairman, and congratulations 
to you and to Ranking Member Hoyle.
    I know the majority was eager to get us started with this 
first Subcommittee hearing, and it is happening on a shorter 
timeline than is standard for regular order. Democrats agreed 
to this in the spirit of cooperation, but we do expect going 
forward that the majority will work with us on the traditional 
schedule, and the norms of the Committee will continue to be 
honored. The majority's haste of putting this hearing together 
also means that there are no Administration witnesses. None 
were invited, and that would have been non-negotiable for the 
majority over the past few years. I hope that, too, is not a 
new precedent.
    But with that, I am glad to see Representative Stansbury's 
WaterSMART for Tribes bill included today. This is a good bill. 
It is going to provide essential tools to help Tribes compete 
for grants that improve water conservation and resiliency.
    I have significant concerns about one bill, H.R. 261, the 
Undersea Cable Protection Act. We have to make sure that our 
national marine sanctuaries, which are some of America's most 
cherished places, continue to be protected, and this bill 
prohibits NOAA from requiring an authorization for the 
installation, maintenance, or recovery of fiber optic cables in 
any national marine sanctuary if such an activity was 
previously authorized by any Federal or State agency. That is 
really broad and sweeping.
    The National Marine Sanctuaries Act drives a collaborative 
process for developing and designating these sanctuaries that 
encompass protection for ocean resources that ocean users, 
local communities, and Tribes can all be proud of. They help 
support coastal economies in a big way, and I know because I 
have a couple of these marine sanctuaries in my district. They 
generate $8 billion annually to local economies and support 
tens of thousands of jobs and businesses, including fishing, 
diving, tourism, recreation, and scientific research sectors. 
And most of that activity is driven by small businesses.
    Activities in these sanctuaries have to be compatible with 
the purpose of the sanctuary. Small businesses such as dive 
boat operators, recreational fishing guides, whale watching 
tours, all of these must make sure that their activities comply 
with the rules. But in this bill House Republicans are making 
it clear that billion-dollar companies like Meta get a free 
pass from all the rules. This bill lets them ignore any 
assessment of the impacts of their activity on the marine 
sanctuary, such as whether the route will disturb its most 
vulnerable features like deep sea corals. And it allows them to 
escape any fees or liability if a disaster occurs.
    And disasters do occur. In 2020 a Facebook subsidiary 
bungled a fiber optic laying operation off the coast of Oregon, 
leaving their drilling pipes, fluids, and other construction 
materials on the sea floor and creating two sinkholes. Why 
would we give billion-dollar tech bros, donors, and pals that 
have been exalted a little too much lately a free pass, knowing 
that our small businesses are playing by the rules and will be 
the ones to take the hit if a construction disaster occurs?
    That said, I think there is nothing inherently incompatible 
between undersea cables and national marine sanctuaries. They 
exist in a bunch of existing sanctuaries, including the ones in 
my district. But they don't need special statutory giveaways. 
And if a bill is needed, we need to be thoughtful and careful 
and targeted about the way we do that.
    So finally, H.R. 331, which amends the Aquifer Recharge 
Flexibility Act to make it easier for third parties to use 
Federal rights-of-way for aquifer recharge projects, the 
sponsors of this legislation have made progress to ensure that 
the bill complies with the directives of the Federal Land 
Policy Management Act and other key environmental laws. But it 
still contains an unnecessary NEPA exemption, and that is bad. 
It is going to make it difficult for Tribes and affected 
communities to weigh in on projects that could significantly 
impact them. I hope the sponsors will work with us to fix that 
language, and make sure this legislation doesn't place 
additional burdens on these local communities. And if they can 
do that, I think that is a bill that should have broad 
bipartisan support.
    With that, I want to thank the witnesses, welcome everyone 
to Washington, and I look forward to discussing these bills 
further.
    I yield back.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. I will now introduce our first 
panel. And as is typical with legislative hearings, the bills' 
sponsors are recognized for 5 minutes each to discuss their 
bills. To testify on my own bill, I recognize myself for 5 
minutes.
    I think it is important to give a bit of background related 
to H.R. 231. The Colorado River basin covers seven States: 
Arizona, California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah, and 
Wyoming. In fact, Wyoming is the headwaters with the Green 
River. It also covers the Republic of Mexico. In the U.S. the 
basin provides water for irrigation of nearly 4.5 million acres 
of land, municipal water supply to about 40 million people, and 
it supports hydropower facilities that can generate more than 
4,200 megawatts of electricity. Within the basin there are 7 
national wildlife refuges and 11 National Park Service units.
    In 2014, the Bureau of Reclamation, the river basin States, 
and the river water users explored ideas that could mitigate 
the impacts of the ongoing drought in the basin. One idea was 
the System Conservation Pilot Program, or SCPP, a 4-year pilot 
program designed to explore solutions to address declining 
water levels in Lake Mead and Lake Powell, and the potential 
for long-term drought in the upper Colorado River basin. The 
program implemented and tested on-the-ground voluntary water 
conservation opportunities that may help manage ongoing record 
drought conditions in the basin.
    The SCPP originally concluded in 2018. From 2015 to 2017 
the Upper Basin SCPP funded 45 projects for a consumptive use 
reduction of approximately 22,000 acre-feet at a total cost of 
$4.5 million. In 2022 this program was reauthorized until 
September 30, 2024.
    H.R. 231 would extend the program's funding authorization 
until September 30, 2026, and require the Secretary of the 
Interior to report to Congress on the continued effectiveness 
of the program by September 30, 2027.
    The SCPP allows the Secretary to provide grants to public 
entities for water conservation pilot projects if the entity 
uses water from the Colorado River basin for municipal 
purposes, and for new water conservation agreements or for 
renewing or implementing water conservation agreements.
    This is a good bill, and I urge its passage.
    The Chair now recognizes Congresswoman Stansbury for 5 
minutes.

        STATEMENT OF THE HON. MELANIE STANSBURY, A REP-
         RESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF  NEW
         MEXICO

    Ms. Stansbury. All right. Well, good morning, everyone, and 
thank you, Madam Chairwoman and Madam Ranking Member. It is 
wonderful to be here with you today, and I am excited to serve 
on this Committee, having worked on water much of my life and 
my career, but also because we have great leadership. And I 
know, Madam Chairwoman, you have a long history working on land 
and water issues, as do you, Representative Hoyle, so thank you 
so much.
    I am delighted and honored to have the have the opportunity 
to present the bill that we have in front of you here today. It 
is called the WaterSMART Access for Tribes Act.
    I would like to welcome Mr. Witherspoon. Thank you so much 
for traveling all the way from Window Rock, Arizona, the Navajo 
Nation. And I know our other guests who are testifying who 
traveled from all over the West, thank you for being here 
today.
    As we say in New Mexico, water is life, water is sacred, 
water is essential to everything we do. And yet, for many 
tribal communities, access to water, infrastructure, and 
funding needed to maintain that infrastructure is out of reach. 
In fact, across the Navajo Nation it is estimated that 30 to 40 
percent of Dene homes do not have access to running water, 
piped water inside their homes. For example, in the To'hajiilee 
chapter, which used to be in my district but is a community 
near and dear to my heart, near to Albuquerque, the people of 
To'hajiilee have lived for many years without safe drinking 
water. Thankfully, the issues around water are finally being 
addressed.
    However, there are still many homes that have to haul water 
from miles away that is used in homes, public buildings, and 
even across public buildings. This is, sadly, a common story 
across many communities. We have pueblos across New Mexico that 
have long gone without sufficient funding to address water 
infrastructure needs not only for drinking water, but also for 
irrigation and other needs.
    As much of the West continues to face drought conditions 
and changes in water supply, it is unconscionable that we have 
not summoned the moral courage and the political will to 
address these issues. That is why this WaterSMART Access for 
Tribes Act is crucial. Years of under-investment in tribal 
water infrastructure have impacted the ability of our Tribes 
and pueblos to address water needs.
    It is estimated that, nationwide, almost half of tribal 
homes lack access to adequate water or sanitation. And tribal 
communities are 19 times more likely to not have access to 
clean water overall. Make no mistake, Tribes and pueblos have 
lived on these lands for countless generations since time 
immemorial, practicing both traditional cultural ways of life 
and resource stewardship, as well as economic activities. But 
as communities have grown, infrastructure has aged, drought and 
water security have intensified, the need to address water 
security has grown more acute.
    This WaterSMART Access for Tribes Act is one tool to unlock 
critically-needed resources to address tribal water security. 
For over a decade the Department of the Interior's WaterSMART 
program has provided hundreds of grants to communities across 
the West as one of the Nation's premier water conservation 
programs. Yet, Tribes have received fewer than 5 percent of 
these grants due to burdensome cost-sharing requirements which 
have acted as a significant barrier to accessing funds.
    This bill would authorize the Secretary of the Interior to 
remove those barriers, and would unlock millions of dollars in 
investment in tribal water programs and projects. This includes 
projects for addressing drought, water conservation, 
efficiency, reuse, and recycling.
    Water is fundamental to the social, economic, and cultural 
needs of Indigenous communities. This legislation will help to 
break down economic barriers to addressing those needs, and 
will help to unlock the funds to support tribal communities in 
building out infrastructure. The time to address these issues 
is now.
    And I thank the Chair and Ranking Member for including this 
bill in today's hearing, and I am happy to answer any 
questions. Thank you very much.

    Ms. Hageman. Thank you, Ms. Stansbury, for your testimony 
today.
    We do have several Members who are also participating in 
other hearings on the Capitol today, so they will be coming in 
and out. And as the bills' sponsors arrive, we will have them 
make their statement at that time. But to move forward with 
this, and make sure that we are staying on time, we will go 
ahead and introduce the second panel that will be testifying 
today: Mr. Nathan Thayn, Owner of Thayn Farms in Green River, 
Utah; Ms. Denise Toombs, Advisor to the International 
Connectivity Coalition in San Francisco, California; Mr. Dwight 
Witherspoon, Water Rights Unit Attorney for the Navajo Nation 
in Window Rock, Arizona. I was just with your president a few 
days ago, it was wonderful to have an opportunity to meet him 
again; and Mr. Wesley Hipke, Water Projects Section Manager of 
the Idaho Department of Water Resources in Boise, Idaho.
    Let me remind the witnesses that under Committee rules they 
must limit their oral statements to Statements to 5 minutes, 
but their entire statement will appear in the hearing record.
    To begin your testimony, please press the button on the 
microphone.
    And we use timing lights. When you begin, the light will 
turn green. When you have 1 minute remaining, the light will 
turn yellow. And at the end of the 5 minutes, the light will 
turn red and I will ask you to please complete your statement.
    I will also allow all witnesses to testify before Member 
questioning.
    I now recognize Mr. Thayn for 5 minutes.

       STATEMENT OF NATHAN THAYN, OWNER, THAYN FARMS,
                     GREEN RIVER, UTAH

    Mr. Thayn. Thank you, Chair Hageman, and Ranking Member, 
and other members of the Committee. I appreciate the 
opportunity to present to you today.
    My name is Nathan Thayn. I am a fourth-generation farmer 
from Green River, Utah. My great-grandfather started farming in 
the 1880s. We lived along the Price River and moved in the late 
1970s to the Green River in central south Utah because there 
was a lot more water there. My father, who sits behind me, 85 
years old, hollowed out a corn barn to play pickleball. He is a 
very active part of our family operation. I also have two sons 
who are working with me on the farm and plan to continue our 
heritage of producing corn, alfalfa, and melons. I am here 
today to testify in favor of H.R. 231, legislation that would 
reauthorize the System Conservation Pilot Program.
    As Committee members know, the Upper Colorado River System 
Conservation, or SCPP, is an important opportunity for 
temporary, voluntary, and compensated reduction in consumptive 
use of agricultural water in the upper Colorado River basin. 
Projects typically involve full or partial season fallowing, 
where farmers forgo irrigation. It is also used for forbearing 
and the use of excess reservoir water shares. Participants are 
compensated per acre-foot of conserved water to replace income 
lost by not using their water for its typical purpose.
    Our family farm operates about 1,600 acres of river bottom 
and bench along the east side of the Green River, above the 
little town of Green River, Utah. Our best money crop is corn, 
followed by melons and alfalfa. We produce products. We end up 
putting milk, beef, and melons on the tables of American 
families throughout especially our region.
    Over the years we have spent a lot of money investing in 
infrastructure. We went from flood irrigation on that acreage 
to pivots and sprinkler irrigation to conserve and to use water 
more efficiently. We were introduced to the SCP program in 
1923, as we had fields that had some poor drainage. We used 
this as an opportunity to do projects to help those fields 
drain better. And then, in 2024, we did a much larger 
conservation project.
    If you know anything about farming, it is a lot like 
gambling. You spend a lot of money up front on seed and 
fertilizer and machinery and other things, and hope that you 
have a good market after you finished your crop with all the 
vulnerabilities that apply, weather and what not, and get your 
money back and turn a profit.
    The SCPP has introduced us to the idea that we can conserve 
water, leave it in the river, generate a better financial 
return by putting it on less productive ground and restore the 
productivity of fields where we have pulled water out to help 
with soil health, drainage issues, and nutrient management.
    We haven't traditionally used fallowing, as there is very 
little incentive to do so. You put a lot of money into having 
your fields in use and the water in use, the lose-it-or-use-it 
law is in addition to the economic hit that you take by not 
using your water. So this is kind of the first stab at thinking 
seriously about conservation and all the benefits that could be 
put with it.
    We are learning that our water can be viewed as another 
type of cash crop that would allow us to implement a type of 
rotational fallowing, which could be very beneficial to our 
operations. The SCP program has opened our eyes to the fact 
that water we are saving and leaving in the river is benefiting 
Utah, and also meeting our obligations there and allowing water 
to be put in Lake Powell, Lake Mead, downstream.
    And some of the uses of the SCCP, or excuse me, SCPP, 
appreciate your support of this program. It is working. It has 
changed our minds. It has changed some of the attitudes that we 
have towards conservation and the opportunities that it 
provides. And it is also helping our State and our downstream 
neighbors, and providing a little extra water for the fish and 
the environment. We have no interest in selling out. We love 
what we do. My kids go to classrooms where there are four kids 
that graduate, and they love it, and they want to come back. 
They like the rural area and the setting.
    I encourage the Committee to pass H.R. 231 quickly to 
ensure the program is reauthorized. The SCPP is an important 
tool for farmers. At the same time I would encourage the 
Committee to work with States and farmers like me to make ways 
of making even better, designing more flexible, long-term 
policies that would provide water users with the tools needed 
to conserve energy, as our farm alone has allowed over 2,000 
acre-feet of water to return to the reservoirs, and we look 
forward to working and striving to conserve even more.
    I thank the Chair and the other members of this Committee 
for this opportunity, and if there are any questions I would be 
glad to take a stab at them.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Thayn follows:]
    
                   Prepared Statement of Nathan Thayn

                              on H.R. 231

    Thank you, Chair Hageman and members of the Committee. I appreciate 
the opportunity to present to you today.
    My name is Nathan Thayne, I am a 4th generation farmer from Green 
River Utah. My great, great grandfather William Alvin Thayn put down 
roots in Wellington, Utah in the 1880's and started farming and raising 
cattle on land adjacent to the Price River. My father eventually moved 
to the Town of Green River Utah in the 1980's and purchased a large 
farm immediately adjacent to the Green River. I studied Agriculture 
Business at Utah State University and started full time farming with my 
father right after graduating college. My father is here today sitting 
in the gallery. I have two sons who are now working with me on the farm 
and plan on continuing our heritage of producing some of the best corn, 
watermelons and alfalfa in the West.
    I am here this morning to testify in favor of HR 231, legislation 
that would reauthorize the Upper Colorado River System Conservation 
Pilot Program.

SCPP Background

    As committee members know, the Upper Colorado River System 
Conservation Pilot Program, or SCPP, is an opportunity for temporary, 
voluntary, and compensated reduction in consumptive use of 
agricultural, municipal, or industrial water in the Upper Colorado 
River Basin. Projects typically involve full or partial season 
fallowing of fields, (where farmers forgo irrigation), changing to 
lower-water-use crops, or forbearing the use of excess reservoir water 
shares. Participants are compensated per acre-foot of conserved water 
to replace income lost by not using water for its typical purpose.
    SCPP is administered in Utah, Colorado, New Mexico and Wyoming by 
the Upper Colorado River Commission with support from local state 
agencies. SCPP is currently funded by Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 
allocations to the Bureau of Reclamation of up to $125 million. Just 
under $50 million has been spent on SCPP to-date.
    In 2022, SCPP was reauthorized for 2023 and 2024 as part of the 
Upper Colorado River Commission's 5-Point Plan responding to former 
Bureau of Reclamation Commissioner Touton's request for the Colorado 
River Basin States to reduce use by an additional 2-4 million acre-feet 
of water annually to protect critical elevations at Lake Powell and 
Lake Mead.
    In 2023, the SCPP program conserved about 38 thousand acre-feet at 
a cost of about $16 million across the four Upper Division States. The 
state of Utah contributed about 16 thousand acre-feet for about $5.5 
million in compensation. In 2024, SCPP featured a more focused scope of 
eligible projects that supported innovation and local resiliency in 
water conservation. In 2024, SCPP conserved about 64 thousand acre-feet 
at a cost of about $29 million across the four Upper Division States. 
Utah contributed about 22 thousand acre-feet for about $10 million in 
compensation.

My Experience with the SCPP Program

    As I mentioned previously, my family farms about 1600 acres of 
river bottom and bench land along the Green River. Our best money crop 
is feed corn followed closely by alfalfa. Green River is known 
nationwide for its melons and we love growing and eating those too! The 
products we produce end up putting milk, beef and melons on the tables 
of American families throughout the Nation.
    My family farm conserved about 357 acre-feet of water in SCPP in 
2023, and 1,981 acre-feet in 2024 by fallowing fields that usually grow 
alfalfa and corn.
    If you know anything about farming, it's a lot like gambling. We 
spend a lot of money up front on seed, equipment, fertilizer, and fuel 
in the hopes of growing a good crop and then having a good market to 
sell it in at the end of the year to make our money back and maybe turn 
a little profit.
    We have also spent a lot of money improving efficiency in our 
farming operations and in the use of our most precious resource, which 
is water. We were introduced to the SCPP program in 2023. We always try 
to maximize the use of our water. Occasionally, we have a need to pull 
a field out of production for one reason or another. We still use the 
water but it goes to more marginal ground and our financial returns go 
down. The SCPP has introduced us to the idea that we can conserve 
water, leave it in the river, generate a better financial return than 
putting it on less productive ground and restore the productivity of 
the fields we have pulled out of use by working on soil health, 
drainage issues and nutrients needed by the crops we grow.
    We haven't traditionally used fallowing as a tool in our farming 
operations, primarily because of the financial hit we took by taking 
the ground out of production. We are learning that our water can be 
viewed as another type of cash crop that would allow us to implement a 
type of rotational fallowing that would actually be very beneficial to 
our operations.
    The SCPP program has also opened our eyes to the fact that the 
water we are saving and leaving in the river is benefiting Utah by 
meeting our obligations to our downstream neighboring States as well as 
benefiting the river environment and the endangered fish found in the 
Green River.
    In summary, the users of the SCPP appreciate your support for this 
program. It is working. It is changing attitudes, making us better 
farmers, providing a little bit of certainty and security in our 
operations, and at the same time, helping our state and our downstream 
neighbors and providing a little extra water for the fish and 
environment. We have no interest in selling out to either developers or 
wall street. We want to keep farming in the family for at least another 
4 generations or longer.

    To wrap up, let me summarize two key takeaways:

1. PASS HR 231

    I encourage the Committee to pass HR 231 quickly to ensure this 
program is reauthorized

2. LONGER TERM SOLUTION NEEDED

    The SCPP is an important tool for farmers. At the same time, I 
would encourage the Committee to work with states and farmers like me 
to design a more flexible, longer-term policy that will provide water 
users with the tools needed to conserve water on the Colorado River in 
a transparent and effective fashion

    Thank you again, Chair Hageman, and members of the committee for 
this opportunity. I am happy to answer any questions you may have.

                                 ______
                                 

    Ms. Hageman. Mr. Thayn, thank you for your very helpful and 
informative testimony.
    I see that we have now been joined by Congressman Carter, 
and I am going to have him testify about his bill for 5 
minutes, and then we will come back to the panel.
    Mr. Carter?

       STATEMENT OF THE HON. BUDDY CARTER, A REPRESENTA-
          TIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF GEORGIA

    Mr. Carter. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for 
giving me this opportunity to speak about H.R. 261. H.R. 261 is 
the Undersea Cable Protection Act.
    The reason I introduced this bill was to address a 
redundant process that is impeding the deployment of sub-sea 
cables. The Department of Homeland Security has designated the 
cables as critical infrastructure. And when you think about it, 
they are. We rely on these cables more than any of us realize, 
because they are the backbone of the Internet, and are critical 
for intercontinental communication and transactions that are 
necessary to support the increased data loads that are a 
product of the growth in AI, super-computing, and everyday 
dependency on the Internet.
    If you don't hear anything else I say, listen to this. It 
is estimated that in the financial sector alone, undersea 
cables carry $10 trillion of financial transfers daily, $10 
trillion of financial transfers daily. Anybody who has read the 
news in the past 6 months knows our adversaries have been 
targeting these cables and cutting them in order to cripple the 
economic and national security of countries around the world. 
This underscores the importance of redundancy and resiliency on 
our own cables and the diversity of routes that are needed to 
ensure we limit our own vulnerability to such activity.
    The permitting process for sub-sea cables is robust, and 
goes above and beyond to protect the marine habitat that is 
particularly near and dear to the hearts of members like me who 
are from the coast. I represent the entire coast of Georgia, so 
it is important to me.
    The Army Corps of Engineers, NOAA, State coastal 
commissions, and local agencies are all involved in a process 
that requires route planning, coordination, multiple 
environmental reviews, and archeological assessments to ensure 
the seabed floor and surrounding habitats are preserved and 
protected. I understand the importance of this process, and my 
bill does absolutely nothing to change that. What I am looking 
to address is the additional Special Use Permit process that 
prompts the secondary NEPA request, additional environmental 
reviews, and the delays that come with such a bureaucratic 
process in the instances where a submarine cable is being laid 
in a marine sanctuary.
    In some instances the marine sanctuary came after the 
cables were laid, and they have to seek permission just to 
stay. The SUPs issued by NOAA are limited to 5 years, which is 
in stark contrast to the 25-year license they get from the FCC. 
It takes longer than 5 years to plan the laying of these 
cables. And as soon as you get your SUP, it is already time to 
start another environmental review. And we already know what 
the review will say, which is what they always say: sub-sea 
cables do not cause environmental harm.
    The investment to deploy these cables are significant, and 
certainly expect a greater return on that investment than 5 
years. And they deserve more regulatory certainty than this 
black box process. I am told by folks in the sub-sea cable 
industry that marine sanctuaries are de facto no-go zones 
because of this regulatory uncertainty.
    And these sanctuaries are not just as rare as you may 
think. Over 400 miles of the coast of California is designated 
as marine sanctuary. That is half the coast of the entire 
State, which also happens to be the most strategic place to lay 
sub-sea cables, given its position globally and its proximity 
to data centers.
    Limiting the ability to lay cables to less than half the 
coast of California and outside of sanctuaries throughout the 
United States limits the resiliency and the redundancy of these 
cables. This limitation increases the risk of external events 
like landslides, a ship dragging an anchor, fishing operations. 
These things do happen, intentionally or not, would damage 
multiple cables at the same time, and imperil our 
communications which is detrimental to our national and 
economic security.
    NOAA has said that they oppose any requirement for SUPs for 
these cables in marine sanctuaries for 2 years to determine a 
process going forward. However, the process will only address 
future marine sanctuaries, so the best-case scenario is a 
patchwork of inconsistent rules depending on the sanctuary and 
when it is designated.
    My bill would provide regulatory certainty, businesses need 
that regulatory certainty now, without jeopardizing any 
environmental concerns or responsibilities that have to be 
addressed before receiving a permit. This is a balanced 
approach to protect the marine environment while ensuring our 
national and economic security, as well as our global 
leadership and technology.
    Once again, I want to repeat what I said earlier because I 
think it is very, very important. It is estimated that in the 
financial sector alone, undersea cables carry $10 trillion 
worth of financial transfers daily. This is important.
    Thank you very much for considering this, Madam Chair, and 
thank you for giving me the opportunity to address, and I yield 
back.
    Thank you. Very interesting testimony. Very helpful.
    And I assume, Ms. Toombs, that you will be reiterating some 
of the information he has provided and providing more detail 
about the importance of this bill. So would you please go ahead 
and begin your testimony for 5 minutes?

       STATEMENT OF DENISE TOOMBS, ADVISOR, INTERNATIONAL
       CONNECTIVITY COALITION, SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

    Ms. Toombs. Thank you, and thank you for the opportunity to 
testify today on behalf of the International Connectivity 
Coalition, ICC, regarding H.R. 261, the Undersea Cable 
Protection Act of 2025.
    This timely legislation is needed to address sub-sea cable 
permitting and national marine sanctuaries to ensure 
environmental concerns are addressed with direct consultation 
with NOAA, while providing regulatory certainty for cable 
network investment and development in the national interest.
    I am Denise Toombs, Advisor to the ICC, with 25 years of 
experience permitting sub-sea cables in the U.S. and globally. 
The ICC represents companies that design and operate submarine 
fiber optic cable networks which are the backbone of global 
communications. These cables transmit 99 percent of 
intercontinental data, enabling essential global activities 
from commerce and financial transactions to secure government 
and military operations.
    A CSIS study estimates the sub-sea cable industry's 
substantial investment in these global networks contributes 
nearly $650 billion annually to the global economy and supports 
our national security. With exponential growth in global 
Internet traffic and the demand from technologies like AI and 
super-computing, the need for sub-sea cables continues to rise. 
In order for the U.S. to maintain global leadership in 
technology, investment and deployment in sub-sea cables needs 
regulatory certainty.
    The current framework for the permitting of sub-sea cables 
is already robust, requiring permits from multiple Federal, 
State, and local agencies. Required studies in general, this is 
not in marine sanctuaries, per se, include essential fish 
habitat assessments, biological assessments, cultural and 
archeological studies, and enforceable mitigation plans. 
Environmental impact studies and monitoring that are integral 
to these permitting processes and permit conditions continue to 
show that the environmental impact of cables is minimal and 
short term. Environmental protection is managed in part through 
intensive routing analyses and engagement with resource 
agencies and local marine users during the design phase, 
established industry guidance and best management practices 
during installation, and cooperation with resource agencies 
during and after installation. The current permitting process 
can take up to 3 years before moving on to installation.
    The legislation being considered does not change or limit 
any of these requirements. What the bill is looking to address 
is the additional permitting framework for commercial sub-sea 
cables in national marine sanctuaries. Special Use Permits 
administered by NOAA add another layer of permitting, and 
substantially increases the regulatory uncertainty for cable 
projects.
    NOAA's requirement for Special Use Permits is redundant to 
the existing robust permitting processes already overseen by 
Federal, State, and local authorities. Moreover, if an SUP is 
issued, it is only good for 5 years with uncertain prospects 
for renewal. A 5-year term is incompatible with critical 
infrastructure investment and expected operating life of these 
systems, and is in contrast with the 25-year license issued by 
the FCC for these cables and the 20 to 25-year terms of most 
State seabed leases.
    These restrictions discourage cable routes through 
sanctuaries, making them no-go zones, as mentioned. For 
example, approximately 400 of California's 800 miles of 
coastline is in areas designated as national marine 
sanctuaries. This matters because network resiliency and 
security require diverse cable routes. If networks are forced 
into more congested areas, they are more vulnerable to becoming 
a single point of failure during natural disasters or other 
events.
    The Undersea Cable Protection Act would streamline the 
permitting process by eliminating the extra requirement of 
NOAA's Special Use Permits, while retaining NOAA's oversight 
role through a consultation process. This would have no effect 
on the existing Federal, State, and local regulatory 
requirements for sub-sea cables. The change would retain both 
the protection of sanctuary resources and the continued 
development of this critical infrastructure.
    Sub-sea cables are essential to the U.S. economy and 
national security, and this legislation represents a balanced 
approach to safeguarding our marine environments while enabling 
investment in vital communications networks.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify. I look forward to 
your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Toombs follows:]
    
   Prepared Statement of Denise Toombs, Advisor to the International 
                         Connectivity Coalition
                         
                              on H.R. 261

    Distinguished members of the Committee, thank you for the 
opportunity to testify today on behalf of the International 
Connectivity Coalition in support of H.R. 261, the ``Undersea Cable 
Protection Act''. We appreciate Congressman Buddy Carter for 
introducing this legislation to address subsea cable permitting in 
national marine sanctuaries.
    I am Denise Toombs, Advisor to the ICC, and am appearing on behalf 
of the ICC to share my experience permitting subsea cables for nearly 
25 years. I am recognized as a leading expert in environmental 
permitting and licensing for marine capital projects, particularly 
subsea cable projects in the U.S. and globally. I understand the 
complexities of the local, state, and federal permitting regimes for 
these types of projects and have a deep knowledge in applying these 
regulations to subsea cable systems. The ICC is a group of companies 
with substantial investments in subsea fiber optic cable networks that 
enable people, companies, governments, and institutions to communicate 
and transact business across oceans and between continents in near real 
time.
    Subsea cables are essential to U.S. economic and national security. 
This is important legislation needed to address commercial subsea cable 
\1\ permitting in national marine sanctuaries and is a balanced 
approach to safeguarding our marine environments, while enabling 
investment in vital communications networks.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ This testimony is limited to commercial subsea cable 
permitting, not subsea cables for research or military use.

    Subsea Fiber-Optic Cables. Modern subsea cables use fiber-optic 
technology to facilitate the transmission of 99% of international data 
and communications across the world.\2\ These cables are laid on the 
seabed between and around continents. Subsea cables are critical 
infrastructure and are pivotal in the functioning of governments, 
economies, and societies worldwide.\3\ They underpin the digital 
economy, supporting everything from global trade and financial 
transactions to the daily operations of businesses across borders. The 
Center for Strategic and International Studies estimates that the 
contribution of subsea cables to the U.S. economy in 2019 was nearly 
649 billion, or approximately 3% of US GDP.\4\ Subsea cables also 
support our national security communications, including secure military 
and intelligence operations. Any disruption to these systems poses a 
significant risk to U.S. economic and national security.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ See https://www.subseacablemap.com/
    \3\ See Priorities for DHS Engagement on Subsea Security & 
Resilience; see also Securing Asia's Subsea Network: U.S. Interests and 
Strategic Options
    \4\ See Securing Asia's Subsea Network: U.S. Interests and 
Strategic Options
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    With the rise of digitalization, e-commerce, data-driven economies, 
and now artificial intelligence, the need for reliable, global internet 
connections continues to grow exponentially, and worldwide demand for 
bandwidth is now nearly doubling every two years.\5\ This, in turn, has 
resulted in a year-over-year increase in the number of subsea cables at 
a rate of 4 percent annually,\6\ making today's world of approximately 
575 active subsea cables \7\ starkly different than the world of 
approximately 100 cables that existed in 1999.\8\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ See id.
    \6\ See Rising Bandwidth Demand and the Impact on Subsea Cables, 
OCEANS & CABLES (Feb. 26, 2024), https://oceanscables.com/rising-
bandwidth-demand-and-the-impact-on-subsea-cables/.
    \7\ See id.
    \8\ See World Submarine Cables & International Bandwidth, 
STACKSCALE (July 7, 2022), available at https://www.stackscale.com/
blog/submarine-cables/.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Accommodating these essential lines of communication through 
geographically diverse ocean routes is necessary to ensure that 
disruption caused by an earthquake, maritime accident, or other 
incident does not cause widespread loss of connectivity for U.S. 
commerce, safety, and security interests. Subsea cable ``route 
diversity'' is one of the key considerations during the design of new 
cable systems to maintain resilience of digital communication 
infrastructure. Therefore, potential route diversity benefits from 
having fewer constraints during spatial planning. A principal policy 
goal set by DHS is to coordinate internationally to increase network 
resilience and route diversity.\9\ Given the vital role subsea cables 
play in our digital communication infrastructure across the globe, it 
is imperative that the United States promote, not delay, investment in 
their installation and operation. The proposed legislation will help 
ensure the United States remains a leader in strengthening the 
resilience of cable networks through route diversity.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \9\ See Priorities for DHS Engagement on Subsea Security & 
Resilience.

    Subsea Cables in the Marine Environment. Subsea fiber optic cable 
systems have minimal environmental impact. Subsea fiber optic cables 
are typically less than 2 inches in diameter or about the size of a 
garden hose. Throughout the design and installation process, extreme 
care is taken to minimize its environmental footprint. The industry 
practices early-stage engineering and leverages modern technology to 
avoid or minimize environmental impacts while at the same time 
maximizing societal, economic, and national security benefits.
    The industry also deploys intensive routing analyses and regularly 
engages with resource agencies and local marine users during the design 
phase. During installation, they follow well established industry 
guidance and best management practices and cooperate with resource 
agencies and stakeholders during and after installation.
    There is significant data which demonstrate that subsea fiber optic 
cable installation and operation, including maintenance and repair, 
have minimal environmental impact.10 For example, there are 
impact assessments, monitoring reports, and post-installation surveys 
prepared for U.S. subsea cable projects, including studies addressing 
cables in national marine sanctuaries that demonstrated, even for 
subsea cables within national marine sanctuaries, seafloor conditions 
return to pre-cable installation conditions following the cable lay 
activities, and biological communities along the cable route were found 
to be indistinguishable from those in control areas away from the 
cable.11,12 In addition, burial verification surveys 
conducted for permit compliance along the West Coast consistently show 
cables, once installed and buried, remain in place as recorded during 
installation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \11\ J. Lindholm, K. Roetcisoender, M. Seida, and T. Leggett, Final 
Report, Olympic Coast National Marine Sanctuary PCL Cable Seafloor 
Habitat Recovery at 10 (Mar. 2024). March 2024 report for seabed 
recovery survey completed involving telecommunications subsea cables 
installed in the Olympic Coast National Marine Sanctuary indicating 
that there was ``no evidence of the cable (either exposed cable or 
remnant trench from the cable installation)''; and that (2) ``there was 
no difference with respect to the density'' of either sessile 
macrofaunal invertebrates on the benthos or of demersal fishes 
``between either cable and their unimpacted reference sites.'' See also 
NOAA Office of National Marine Sanctuaries, ONMS-18-01, Submarine 
Cables in Olympic Coast National Marine Sanctuary: History, Impact, and 
Management Lessons (2018), at 42-43. Report found that ``[i]n general 
terms, the physical habitat within OCNMS had returned to pre-
installation conditions within five years of cable installation.'' In 
addition, the report concluded that in terms of ``impacts from undersea 
cables, benthic communities along the cable route in [OCNMS] were 
indistinguishable from those in control areas during the post-
installation surveys.''
    \12\ Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute, Potential Impacts of 
the Monterey Accelerated Research System (MARS) Cable on the Seabed and 
Benthic Faunal Assemblages (2020) at i-ii. available at https://
sanctuarysimon.org/regional_docs/monitoring_projects/100391_MBARI_MARS 
_2020_report.pdf. Summarized four ``comprehensive surveys'' performed 
in 2008, 2010, 2015 and 2020 (13 years after the MARS cable's 2007 
installation), on potential impacts on the Monterey Bay national Marine 
Sanctuary, finding (1) that ``the MARS cable has had little detectable 
impact on seabed geomorphology, sediment qualities, or biological 
assemblages; (2) in terms of potential seabed effects, that with 
respect to the ``cable trench'' associated with the cable's 
installation on the seafloor, sediment had filled the cable trench in 
deeper areas, ``which is now nearly imperceptible in most locations''; 
and (3) that there was virtually no detectable effects along the cable 
route with respect to benthic communities, including that (i) for the 
first three comprehensive surveys, ``local-scale variation in benthic 
megafaunal communities'' near the MARS cable ``was minor or 
undetectable'', and (ii) the 2020 survey actually found that ``the 
density of megafauna . . . was significantly greater along the cable 
route than the undisturbed area just 50 m away.''
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In addition, publicly available reports, such as the 2009 UNEP-WCMC 
Report ``Submarine Cables and the Oceans: Connecting the World'' 
(``UNEP-WCMC milestone report'') aimed to provide objective, factual 
descriptions of the subsea cable industry and the interaction of subsea 
telecommunications with the marine environment.\13\ Since the UNEP-WCMC 
milestone report, approximately 25 other peer reviewed university and 
research institution studies have been completed on various aspects of 
subsea cables in the marine environment, including leaching studies, 
seabed recovery studies, marine mammal and shark studies, and EMF.\14\ 
The cumulative result of these studies echoes the UNEP-WCMC Report that 
modern subsea fiber optic cables have short-term, minimal impacts on 
the marine environment.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \13\ See https://resources.unep-wcmc.org/products/WCMC_RT059.
    \14\ See https://www.un.org/depts/los/biodiversity/prepcom_files/
ICC_Submarine_Cables_&_BBNJ _August_2016.pdf.

    Robust Permitting Regime. The installation and operation of subsea 
cables in the US are subject to a robust permitting regime, requiring 
permits and consultations from multiple federal, state, or local 
agencies. The planning and permitting for a trans-oceanic subsea cable 
can take two to three years before installation.
    The resources in national marine sanctuary designations already 
receive protection under existing federal and state laws governing the 
installation, operation, maintenance, and ultimately, the retirement of 
subsea fiber optic cables. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) is 
typically the lead federal agency for subsea cable projects in the US. 
Most cable projects qualify for authorization under Nationwide Permit 
(NWP) 57 Electric Utility Line and Telecommunications Activities. NWP 
57 authorizes the installation of the cable and requires, at a minimum, 
federal consultations with the National Marine Fisheries Service (e.g., 
NOAA Fisheries), U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, and Tribes.
    US states and territories also have permitting authority for 
installation and operation of subsea cables. States have robust and 
well-developed regulatory regimes in place to protect marine 
environments and cultural resources that may be affected by the 
installation of subsea fiber optic cables. State authorizations include 
conditions that encompass installation and/or the life of the cable. 
Seabed leases in state waters generally have terms of 20 to 25 years, 
with options for renewal, aligning with the investment and lifecycle of 
a subsea cable.
    California provides a good case study of a robust state regulatory 
regime. The California agencies involved in reviewing a subsea cable 
rely on a robust environmental review under the California 
Environmental Quality Act (CEQA). The CEQA analysis addresses impacts 
for multiple resources. It is conducted as a public process and results 
in enforceable mitigations that are ultimately incorporated into permit 
and lease conditions by appropriate agencies, including the California 
State Lands Commission and the California Coastal Commission. The 
California State Lands Commission is typically the lead agency with the 
California Coastal Commission having a substantial role in the review 
and authorization of subsea cables off the California coast.
    The California State Lands Commission issues a submerged lands 
lease authorizing the placement, occupancy, maintenance, and retirement 
a subsea cable on state submerged lands incorporating mitigations 
developed during the CEQA review. The California Coastal Commission, in 
turn, issues a coastal development permit and certification under the 
federal Coastal Zone Management Act that assure consistency between 
federal actions and the California Coastal Management Program. The 
submerged lands lease and the coastal development permit are two good 
examples of state authorizations issued under existing state permitting 
regimes that prioritize the avoidance, minimization, and mitigation of 
impacts to resources, including resources of importance in national 
marine sanctuaries.
    California resource agencies have learned from the experience of 
past projects and have amended some permitting requirements after 
reviewing the body of information developed from earlier subsea cable 
projects. The subsea cable industry, in turn, is able to anticipate 
applicable requirements and incorporate them into project design. The 
outcome is a more predictable--but still rigorous--process. Other 
states have similar permitting regimes that ensure a predictable and 
rigorous state-level permitting process for subsea cables.

    Together, the existing federal and state subsea permitting regime 
and review process address potential adverse impacts to marine 
resources by requiring, at a minimum, the following:

     Biological Assessments for review and concurrence by NOAA 
            Protected Resources Division and the US Fish and Wildlife 
            Service for potential effects on species listed under the 
            Endangered Species Act and Marine Mammal Protection Act.

     Preparation of an Essential Fish Habitat Assessment for 
            NOAA Fisheries review and concurrence as required by the 
            Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act.

     Environmental assessments of all elements of the project, 
            including a full air quality and greenhouse gas assessment.

     Marine archaeological assessment required to identify and 
            avoid sensitive archaeological and cultural resources, 
            including consultations under the National Historic 
            Preservation Act with the state historic preservation 
            offices for potential impacts on historic and cultural 
            resources.

     State water quality standard certifications.

     Filing of ``as-built'' documentation with agencies for 
            inclusion on nautical charts, as well as providing pre-
            construction and installation plans, engineering design 
            drawings, and emergency and contingency plans.

     Provisions addressing notification and performance of 
            cable repairs and maintenance.

    In addition to the above, many states have additional information 
requirements as part of their review. For example, California requires 
marine habitat assessment to identify and avoid sensitive marine 
resources, such as hard bottom habitats, with required mitigation for 
crossing unavoidable hard bottom habitat. Oregon and California also 
impose mitigation requirements addressing cable burial, and a pre-
construction seafloor survey and post-installation survey (both which 
are standard industry practice independent of regulatory requirements 
in connection with construction and installation verifications). A 
burial verification survey may be required at five or six years 
following installation, and one year prior to the end of the lease 
term, or if there is an event likely causing cable to become unburied 
(such as a seismic event). Another evolving requirement we see (at a 
state level and by NOAA) is the development of a marine wildlife 
avoidance plan and requirement to have marine wildlife observers on 
board cable installation and survey vessels.

    Permitting Subsea Cables in National Marine Sanctuaries. Under 
NOAA's current regulatory framework within national marine sanctuaries, 
subsea cable operators are required to obtain a special use permit to 
install and operate subsea cable systems. A special use permit is 
limited to a five-year term, which can be renewed at NOAA's discretion. 
However, 5-year permit terms are unsuitable for an infrastructure 
investment that has a minimum 25-year useful life.
    In addition, the special use permit application process requires an 
applicant to undergo a separate federal environmental review by NOAA, 
in addition to the federal and state processes described above. NOAA's 
review requires a subsea operator to include an environmental 
assessment and alternatives analysis that describes routes that were 
considered and eliminated, the basis for elimination, and a site plan 
and description of each alternative.
    NOAA's current special use permit review process for subsea cables 
is generally untested, does not have predictable processing timeframes, 
and would result in permit terms too short to justify the enormous 
investment required. Unlike USACE and state agencies, NOAA historically 
has little experience permitting subsea cables and its special use 
permit regulations contain no requirements specific to subsea cable 
siting. Further, a special use permit for subsea cables requires a fair 
market value fee using a formula that is outdated and not based on 
actual, verifiable costs. It is not predictable or easy to apply. 
Simply put, given the extensive review and protections guaranteed by 
existing local, state and federal procedures, there seems no reasonable 
need for NOAA to continue regulating subsea fiber optic cables with 
special use permits and the fair market value formula, when considering 
the various equities NOAA needs to balance.
    It is evident that the existing NOAA regulations and permitting 
regime have created a de facto ``no-go area'' for subsea cables in 
national marine sanctuaries. According to NOAA's own data, only three 
commercial subsea cable systems have been installed in national marine 
sanctuaries, all between 1998 and 2000. Aside from these three cables, 
it appears no subsea cable have been installed in an existing national 
marine sanctuary since 2000. This is in comparison to, according to 
industry sources, some 50 or so new subsea cable systems installed in 
the United States since then (about 20 on the west coast and about 30 
on the east coast).
    The effect of NOAA's existing regulatory regime is clear. New 
sanctuary designations effectively prohibit new cables and could add 
new regulatory burden and significantly impact existing cables. This is 
illustrated in the attached map of California fiber optic subsea 
cables, overlaid by the boundaries of national marine sanctuaries off 
the coast of California. The map shows the extent to which commercial 
subsea cables landing in California and constructed since 2000, route 
around and avoid the national marine sanctuaries. This is a direct 
result of the special use permit process, and unrelated to market 
demand. In fact, the only commercial subsea cables installed in 
national marine sanctuaries in California were all installed prior to 
the sanctuary designation of the areas and have all since been 
retired.\15\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \15\ For the example, the cables, now retired, that land in Port 
Arena, CA and traverse what is now the northern portion of the Greater 
Farallones NMS, were installed prior to the 2016 expansion of the 
Greater Farallones NMS, which expanded the sanctuary footprint to cover 
the area traversed by the cables. Similarly, the cables, now retired, 
that traverse what is now the western Davidson Seamount expansion of 
the Monterey Bay NMS, were installed prior to the 2008 expansion of the 
sanctuary to Davidson Seamount, which expanded the sanctuary footprint 
to cover the area traversed by the cables.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The effect of these regulations is real and increases risk to the 
subsea cable industry and has a direct, adverse impact on route 
diversity and subsea cable resiliency. The industry avoids sanctuaries 
because of the special use permit process, the special permit term, and 
associated fair market value fees imposed by NOAA under its special use 
permit regime. This in turn, especially on the west coast, diminishes 
the number of potential cable landings and forces new cables into more 
congested locations, especially when other maritime uses and physical 
constraints drive routing decisions must be considered. This forced 
routing could result in potential single points of failure that could 
disrupt the timely exchange of data and information.\16\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \16\ See id.; Curtis Heinzl, Subway-Style Map Visualizes the Global 
Network of Submarine Cables, BLOOMBERG (July 17, 2024), https://
www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-07-17/subway-style-map-
visualizes-world-s-network-of-submarine-cables?srnd=homepage-uk.

    Streamlined Permitting for Subsea Cables. The proposed legislation 
would alleviate a significant regulatory burden on subsea cables by 
eliminating NOAA's duplicative environmental permitting for subsea 
cables and rely on existing, robust federal and state permitting 
regime. NOAA would retain an oversight role for any commercial subsea 
cable passing through a national marine sanctuary.
    For subsea cables that might be installed in a national marine 
sanctuary, which, as noted above, would require a permit from the 
USACE, NOAA has explicit consultation authority under Section 304(d) of 
the National Marine Sanctuary Act, which requires the USACE to consult 
with NOAA on likely adverse impacts on a sanctuary resource. This 
authority ensures NOAA's engagement in the USACE review process and 
allows NOAA to recommend conditions of approval and even alternative 
actions to protect sanctuary resources. The proposed legislation also 
contains an agency cooperation provision that further ensures that NOAA 
would have a continued consultative role on the installation of a new 
cables in a sanctuary that could have adverse impacts on sanctuary 
resources, similar to that of NOAA and other federal agencies, related 
to essential fish habitat, marine mammal protection and endangered 
species. For subsea cables that cannot rely on another federal or state 
authorization, under the proposed legislation, NOAA would retain 
permitting jurisdiction for subsea cables in national marine 
sanctuaries.
    NOAA itself is in the process of reconsidering its permitting 
regime for subsea cables in national marine sanctuaries. In August 
2024, NOAA issued Notice of Modification to the Special Use Permit 
Category for the Continued Presence of Commercial Submarine Cables 
within the National Marine Sanctuary System in Docket No. 2024-
18099.\17\ During the pause, NOAA is taking comments and considering 
revisions to the 2011 Final Policy and Permit Guidance for Submarine 
Cable Projects \18\ Members of the International Connectivity Coalition 
provided comments to NOAA and encourage NOAA to consider eliminating 
special use permit review in its entirety for subsea cables and instead 
rely on its authorization and consultation authorities instead.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \17\ https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2024/08/16/2024-
18099/notice-of-modification-to-the-special-use-permit-sup-category-
for-the-continued-presence-of
    \18\ See https://nmssanctuaries.blob.core.windows.net/sanctuaries-
prod/media/archive/library/pdfs/subcable_final_guidance_2011.pdf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Under the proposed legislation, NOAA will continue to have a role 
in reviewing subsea cables within national marine sanctuaries. With the 
proposed legislation, however, the review process will be more 
efficient, provide greater certainty to applicants, improve diversity 
of routes, and focus Sanctuary staff resources on the marine sciences 
and resource education at which they excel rather than diverting time 
to permit processing.
    In closing, I wanted to express the ICC's deep appreciation for the 
Committee to the attention it is giving to this critically important 
matter and for allowing me to share my testimony with you today.

                                 *****

                 ATTACHMENT 1--California Coastline Map

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                                 ------                                

    Ms. Hageman. Thank you, Mr. Toombs. I now recognize Mr. 
Witherspoon for 5 minutes.

    STATEMENT OF DWIGHT WITHERSPOON, WATER RIGHTS UNIT
     ATTORNEY,  NAVAJO  NATION  DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE,
     WINDOW ROCK, ARIZONA

    Mr. Witherspoon. [Speaking Native language] Chairman 
Hageman, Ranking Member, members of the Subcommittee. Thank you 
for this opportunity to testify on the WaterSMART Access for 
Tribes Act. My name is Dwight Witherspoon, and I serve as an 
attorney for the Navajo Department of Justice. Today, I am here 
on behalf of Navajo Nation President, Dr. Buu Nygren, to 
express our strong support for this legislation which will make 
the WaterSMART grant program more accessible to Tribes by 
allowing the flexibility with the non-Federal cost share 
requirements.
    While this bill does not address the full scope of the 
Navajo Nation's water needs, it provides a useful tool to help 
the nation and other Tribes address water infrastructure 
challenges and move towards a more sustainable future.
    The Navajo Nation water needs are immense and urgent. Our 
nation spans over 27,000 square miles across Arizona, New 
Mexico, and Utah, and many of our citizens live in remote areas 
without access to clean drinking water. At a rate that is more 
than 60, roughly 30 percent of our Navajo households lack 
clean, reliable drinking water, a rate that is 67 times more 
than the national average. This stark statistic is not just a 
number. It represents thousands of families who are forced to 
haul water for drinking, cooking, and bathing.
    The lack of access to clean water has led to a cascade of 
public health challenges, including higher rates of waterborne 
illnesses and other preventable diseases. It also places an 
undue burden on women, children, and elders, who are often 
asked to be able to haul the water for long distances.
    Unlike States and municipalities, the Navajo Nation does 
not have a traditional tax base. Since tribal lands are held in 
trust, it restricts our ability to generate revenue through 
property taxes, and our community's remoteness limits other 
economic development opportunities. As a result, we must rely 
on Federal funding to build and maintain critical 
infrastructure. Programs like the WaterSMART are helpful, but 
the current and cost share requirements often put these funds 
out of reach for tribal nations who need them the most.
    The WaterSMART program has an opportunity to fund impactful 
projects for the Navajo Nation. For example, the nation could 
apply for drinking funding, water system efficiency upgrades at 
the Alamo Chapter, a satellite reservation in central New 
Mexico. The nation in the past has struggled to successfully 
apply for these funds simply because they cannot meet the non-
Federal matching requirements. The WaterSMART access for Tribes 
would address this hardship by allowing the Secretary of the 
Interior to waive the non-Federal cost share requirements, 
increasing the likelihood that Tribes like the Navajo Nation 
will be able to access the critical funding.
    It is crucial to understand that, while this water 
WaterSMART Access for Tribes Act is a step forward, other 
larger investments in drinking water infrastructure are needed 
in Indian Country. For instance, the nation continues to 
advance several water rights settlements before Congress. This 
would resolve the nation's outstanding water claims in Arizona 
and a majority of the claims in New Mexico, as well as address 
the massive infrastructure needs on the Navajo reservation.
    Access to water is not just a matter of infrastructure, it 
is a matter of health and economic opportunity. It impacts our 
children. Our schools struggle with inadequate water supplies. 
It affects our ability to attract business, create jobs. It 
perpetuate cycles of poverty. And it undermines our efforts to 
build a sustainable future for the Navajo people.
    We urge this WaterSMART Access for Tribes Act recognizes 
these realities and offers a practical and immediate solution 
to help address the barriers Tribes face in accessing Federal 
resources. By waiving and reducing the cost share requirements, 
this legislation would empower tribal nations to undertake 
projects to conserve water, improve efficiency, and enhance 
water delivery systems.
    We urge the Subcommittee and Congress to support the 
WaterSMART Access for Tribes Act, who will--while continuing to 
prioritize tribal water rights settlements. Together with these 
efforts, we can help turn the tide of water insecurity in 
Indian Country while honoring the Federal Government's trust 
responsibility for tribal nations.
    In closing, we want to thank the Subcommittee for its 
attention to our tribal needs. We look forward to you advancing 
this legislation. We thank you for the opportunity to testify, 
and happy to answer questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Witherspoon follows:]
    
    Prepared Statement of Mr. Dwight Witherspoon, Water Rights Unit 
             Attorney, Navajo Nation Department of Justice
             
           on H.R. ____, the WaterSMART Access for Tribes Act

    Ya'at'eeh Chairman Hageman, Ranking Member, and Members of the 
Subcommittee:
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify on the WaterSMART Access 
for Tribes Act. My name is Dwight Witherspoon, and I serve as an 
attorney for the Navajo Nation Department of Justice in the Water 
Rights Unit. Today, I am here on behalf of Navajo Nation President Dr. 
Buu Nygren to express our strong support for this legislation, which 
will make the WaterSMART grant program more accessible to Tribes by 
allowing flexibility with the non-federal cost-share requirements. 
While this bill does not address the full scope of the Navajo Nation's 
water needs, it provides a useful tool to help the Nation and other 
tribes address water infrastructure challenges and move toward a more 
sustainable future.
    The Navajo Nation's water needs are immense and urgent. Our Nation 
spans over 27,000 square miles across Arizona, New Mexico, and Utah, 
and many of our citizens live in remote areas without access to running 
water or reliable infrastructure. Roughly 30% of Navajo households lack 
access to clean drinking water--a rate that is more than 67 times the 
national average. This stark statistic is not just a number; it 
represents thousands of families who are forced to haul water for 
drinking, cooking, and bathing. The lack of access to clean water has 
led to a cascade of public health challenges, including higher rates of 
waterborne illnesses and other preventable diseases. It also places an 
undue burden on women, children, and elders, who are often the ones 
tasked with hauling water over long distances.
    These challenges are compounded by the unique legal and economic 
realities faced by Tribal Nations. Unlike states and municipalities, 
the Navajo Nation does not have a traditional tax base. Federal law 
restricts our ability to generate revenue through property taxes, and 
the remoteness of our communities limits other opportunities for 
economic development. As a result, we must rely heavily on federal 
funding to build and maintain critical infrastructure. Programs like 
WaterSMART are helpful, but the current cost-share requirements often 
put these funds out of reach for Tribal Nations that need them most.
    The WaterSMART program has the opportunity to fund impactful 
projects for the Navajo Nation. For example, the Nation could apply to 
fund drinking water system efficiency upgrades at the Alamo Chapter, a 
satellite reservation in rural central New Mexico, through the 
WaterSMART program if funding is available. The Nation in the past has 
struggled to successfully apply for these funds simply because we 
cannot meet the non-federal matching requirements. The WaterSMART 
Access for Tribes Act would address this hardship by allowing the 
Secretary of the Interior to reduce or waive the non-federal cost-share 
requirement, increasing the likelihood that Tribes like the Navajo 
Nation will be able to access this critical funding.
    It is crucial to understand that while the WaterSMART Access for 
Tribes Act is a step forward, other larger investments in drinking 
water infrastructure in Indian Country are needed. For instance, the 
Nation continues to advance several water rights settlements before 
Congress, which would resolve the Nation's outstanding water claims in 
Arizona and the majority of its claims in New Mexico as well as address 
the massive water infrastructure needs on the Navajo Reservation.
    Access to water is not just a matter of infrastructure; it is a 
matter of health, and economic opportunity. The inability to provide 
clean, reliable water to all of our citizens limits our ability to 
thrive as a Nation. It impacts our children's education, as schools 
struggle with inadequate water supplies. It affects our ability to 
attract businesses and create jobs, perpetuating cycles of poverty. And 
it undermines our efforts to build a sustainable future for the Navajo 
people.
    The WaterSMART Access for Tribes Act recognizes these realities and 
offers a practical, immediate solution to help address the barriers 
that Tribes face in accessing federal resources. By waiving or reducing 
the cost-share requirements, this legislation would empower Tribal 
Nations to undertake projects that conserve water, improve efficiency, 
and enhance water delivery systems.
    We urge this Subcommittee and Congress to support the WaterSMART 
Access for Tribes Act while continuing to prioritize the resolution of 
Tribal water rights settlements. Together, these efforts can help us 
turn the tide on water insecurity in Indian Country and honor the 
federal government's trust responsibility to Tribal Nations.
    In closing, I want to thank this Subcommittee for its attention to 
the water needs of Tribal Nations. The Navajo Nation looks forward to 
working with you to advance this legislation, the Nation's water rights 
settlements, and other measures that support sustainable water access 
for Native communities. Your leadership and commitment to addressing 
these challenges will make a tangible difference in the lives of the 
Navajo people and all Native Americans.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify. I am happy to answer any 
questions you may have.

                                 ______
                                 

    Ms. Hageman. Thank you, Mr. Witherspoon. The Chair now 
recognizes Mr. Hipke for 5 minutes.

      STATEMENT OF WESLEY HIPKE, WATER PROJECTS SECTION
       MANAGER,  IDAHO  DEPARTMENT  OF WATER RESOURCES,
       BOISE, IDAHO

    Mr. Hipke. My name is Wesley Hipke, and I am the Water 
Projects Section Manager for the Idaho Department of Water 
Resources. I am here today testifying on behalf of the Idaho 
Water Resource Board.
    The board is charged with formulating a comprehensive State 
water plan for conservation, development, management, and 
optimum use of Idaho's water resources, along with undertaking 
and financing projects and programs to help meet those needs.
    Idaho is a headwater State with significant water 
resources, but also includes vast, semi-arid and arid regions 
where water supplies vary significantly from year to year. As 
with other Western States, water supply shortages and water use 
conflicts occur across the State. Most notably is the eastern 
Snake River plain in the southern portion of the State, home of 
one-third of Idaho's population.
    This plain is underlain by the Eastern Snake Plain Aquifer, 
or ESPA. This aquifer covers an area roughly the size of Lake 
Erie, and supports about one million acres of irrigated 
farmland, municipal water supplies, and thousands of domestic 
wells for drinking water. The ESPA discharges spring flows into 
the Snake River, supplying water to an additional 600,000 of 
irrigated acres, many municipalities, hydropower generation, 
and a multitude of other uses. The value of goods and services 
produced by the ESPA region exceeds $10 billion annually.
    With the strong support of Governor Brad Little and the 
Idaho legislature, Idaho has made significant investments in 
water management, drought resiliency, expanding water supplies, 
and repairing and improving critical water resource 
infrastructure. Since 2019, more than $500 million has been 
appropriated by the legislature to the board for these water 
management improvements.
    The water levels in the ESPA are declining at an 
unsustainable rate. The Idaho Water Resource Board was tasked 
with the development of the ESPA Comprehensive Aquifer 
Management Plan to stabilize and recover this crucial aquifer. 
A key component of the plan is the development of a State-
sponsored aquifer recharge program. This program diverts excess 
surface water, including flood flows, in wet years to stabilize 
and recover this aquifer. To date, Idaho has invested 
approximately $60 million on recharge infrastructure. This does 
not include program operations or expenditures made by private 
parties.
    Development of the aquifer recharge program includes the 
use of existing irrigation canals for the transportation and 
percolation of the water into the aquifer. A significant number 
of the irrigation canals cross lands owned by the U.S. Bureau 
of Land Management. These canals have existing right-of-ways 
with the BLM. Using this existing infrastructure is hugely 
beneficial for Idaho to reach its goals and stabilizing the 
aquifer.
    To ensure flexibility in managing aquifer recharge over 
Federal lands, the 116th Congress enacted section 1105 of the 
Aquifer Recharge Flexibility Act. In part, the Act states the 
holder of a right-of-way, easement, permit, or other 
authorization to transport water across public land 
administered by the Bureau of Land Management may transport 
water for aquifer recharge purposes without requiring 
additional authorization from the Secretary where the use does 
not expand or modify the operation of the right-of-way, 
easement, permit, or other authorization across public land.
    The Act was intended to allow the board to move and 
infiltrate water for recharge through existing irrigation 
canals that crossed BLM lands without obtaining additional 
right-of-ways. Despite the plain wording of the Act, the BLM 
has taken the position that the Act does not apply to third 
parties, only to the right-of-way owners of record. The 
interpretation requires the board to obtain new right-of-ways 
to conduct recharge in canals that already have existing right-
of-ways.
    The BLM right-of-way process can be onerous and will add 
significant time to the development of recharge projects. This 
could severely delay the board's ability to reach the goals of 
recovering and stabilizing the ESPA. The BLM's insistence that 
the board obtain new right-of-ways to utilize existing 
irrigation canals for aquifer recharge is in contravention of 
the plain language of the Act, and we believe is contrary to 
the intent of Congress in passing the Act.
    The amendments to the Act being sought in the legislature 
would address BLM's erroneous interpretation that the Act does 
not apply to third parties. The amendment will enable the board 
to more efficiently implement its managed aquifer recharge 
activities and reach its goals for the benefit of the citizens 
of the State of Idaho.
    In conclusion, I want to thank this Subcommittee for 
considering this amendment to the Aquifer Recharge Flexibility 
Act, and for this opportunity to provide testimony. I would be 
happy to answer any questions the Subcommittee may have.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Hipke follows:]
    
Prepared Statement of Mr. Wesley Hipke, Water Projects Section Manager, 
                  Idaho Department of Water Resources
                  
                              on H.R. 331

    My name is Wesley Hipke, and I am the Water Projects Section 
Manager for the Idaho Department of Water Resources. I am also here 
today testifying on behalf of the Idaho Water Resources Board (Board). 
The Board consists of eight governor-appointed members, knowledgeable 
in the field of water resources from across the State of Idaho and is 
required by law to be politically balanced. The Board was established 
by Idaho Constitution Article 15, Section 7, and is charged with 
formulating a comprehensive state water plan for conservation, 
development, management, and optimum use of Idaho's water resources, 
and undertaking and financing projects and programs to help meet those 
needs.
    Idaho is a headwaters state with significant water resources, but 
also includes vast semi-arid and arid regions. Like all arid Western 
states, Idaho depends on snowpack for its water supplies, which varies 
from year to year. Water resource administration and management are 
therefore of critical interest to the State of Idaho and its residents.
    As with other Western states, water supply shortages and water use 
conflicts occur across the various regions of the state. Idaho has an 
exceptional program to adjudicate water rights within the state, 
including the Snake River Basin Adjudication which was completed in 
2014. The Northern Idaho Adjudications and the Bear River Basin 
Adjudication are currently underway. These adjudications, when 
completed, will allow the Idaho Department of Water Resources to 
administer water rights on a priority basis in times of shortage.
    About one-third of Idaho's population resides on the Eastern Snake 
River Plain. The Eastern Snake River Plain is underlain by the Eastern 
Snake Plain Aquifer (``ESPA''), which is roughly the size of Lake Erie. 
The ESPA is a 10,000 square-mile aquifer that underlies much of 
southern and eastern Idaho, supports about 1 million acres of irrigated 
farmland, municipal water supplies for 18 cities, and thousands of 
individual domestic wells for drinking water. The aquifer discharges 
spring flows to the Snake River, supplying water to an additional 
600,000 acres of downstream irrigated land, many municipalities, and 
flows for hydropower generation. The ESPA is the sole source of 
drinking water for both cities and most rural residents in eastern 
Idaho. The value of goods and services produced by the ESPA region 
exceeds $10 billion annually.
    Idaho has been very proactive in its responses to drought and water 
supply shortages for all water uses, including drinking water, 
irrigation, hydropower, fish, wildlife, environmental needs, and 
others. With the strong support of Governor Brad Little and the Idaho 
Legislature, Idaho has made significant investments in water 
management, building drought resiliency, expanding water supplies, and 
repairing and improving critical water resource infrastructure to 
benefit water availability into the future. Since 2019, more than $500 
million has been appropriated by the legislature to the Board for these 
water management improvement purposes.
    The water levels in the ESPA are declining at an unsustainable 
rate. Because of its importance for the citizens of Idaho, the Idaho 
Legislature tasked the Idaho Water Resource Board with developing a 
plan to stabilize and recover the ESPA. In response, the Board 
developed the Eastern Snake Plain Comprehensive Aquifer Management Plan 
(ESPA CAMP) which was adopted as part of the State Water Plan in 2009. 
The ESPA CAMP sets forth a suite of measures, the most prominent of 
which is the development of a state-sponsored aquifer recharge program. 
The aquifer recharge program diverts excess surface water (including 
flood flows) in wet years to stabilize and recover the declining 
aquifer.
    Development of the managed aquifer recharge program includes the 
use of existing irrigation canals and ditches as the mechanism for 
seeping and percolating water into the aquifer. A significant number of 
the existing irrigation canals and ditches cross lands owned by the 
U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM). The irrigation canal owners 
already have existing rights of way with the BLM for their irrigation 
canals. Using existing irrigation infrastructure to divert, seep, and 
deliver managed aquifer recharge water is hugely beneficial in reaching 
Idaho's aquifer recharge goals. The program also includes other 
measures undertaken by water users, municipalities, and other partners 
in the effort. To date, Idaho has invested approximately $60 million on 
aquifer recharge infrastructure in addition to program operations and 
maintenance costs, not including the expenditures made by private 
parties.
    To ensure flexibility in managing aquifer recharge over federal 
lands, the 116th Congress enacted Section 1105 of P.L. 116-260, the 
Aquifer Recharge Flexibility Act (introduced as S. 1570/H.R. 2871 in 
the 116th Congress). Section 1105 facilitates the use of existing 
irrigation canals for aquifer recharge purposes by allowing the canals 
to be used for the conveyance of aquifer recharge water without the 
need to seek additional authorization from the federal government. In 
part, the Act states:

        Conveyance for Aquifer Recharge Purposes --The holder of a 
        right-of-way, easement, permit, or other authorization to 
        transport water across public land administered by the Bureau 
        of Land Management may transport water for aquifer recharge 
        purposes without requiring additional authorization from the 
        Secretary where the use does not expand or modify the operation 
        of the right-of-way, easement, permit or other authorization 
        across public land.

    The Act was intended to allow the Board to move and infiltrate 
managed recharge water through existing irrigation canals that cross 
BLM lands without having to obtain additional rights of way from the 
BLM. Despite the plain wording of the Act, the BLM has taken the 
position that the Act does not apply to third parties, only to the 
right of way owners of record. This interpretation has led the BLM to 
deny the Board's use of those existing irrigation canals without first 
obtaining a new right of way. The BLM right of way process can be 
onerous and will add significant time to the development of recharge 
projects. Utilizing the right of way process may severely delay the 
Board's ability to reach its goal of recovering and stabilizing the 
ESPA.
    The BLM's insistence that the Board obtains new rights of way to 
run aquifer recharge water through existing irrigation canals is in 
contravention of the plain language of the Act and we believe is 
contrary to the intent of Congress in passing the Act. The amendments 
to the Act being sought in the legislation would address BLM's 
erroneous interpretation that the Act does not apply to third parties. 
The amendment will enable the Board to more efficiently implement its 
managed aquifer recharge activities and reach its goal of recovering 
the ESPA for the benefit of the citizens of the State of Idaho.
    In conclusion, I want to thank this subcommittee for considering 
this amendment to the Aquifer Recharge Flexibility Act and for this 
opportunity to provide testimony. I would be happy to answer any 
questions the Subcommittee may have.

                                 ______
                                 

    Ms. Hageman. Thank you, Mr. Hipke. I thank the witnesses 
for their testimony, and I will now recognize Members for 5 
minutes each for questions, and I am going to begin with 
myself.
    Mr. Thayn, in your testimony you talk about your own 
experience with the Upper Colorado River System Conservation 
Pilot Program. Given the current water challenges on that river 
and in that system, if this program were not to be 
reauthorized, how challenging would it be to access other 
Federal opportunities?
    Mr. Thayn. Well, I don't know that I can speak to exactly 
what it would, it is challenging in the economic terms of being 
able to conserve water. The infrastructure you have is, we 
spend a lot of money to put down to utilize the water and 
efficiently do it. But as far as conservation, it is difficult 
to see much incentive to do so.
    I don't know that I can speak to how it would affect 
others. Certainly, others that are used for conservation seems 
kind of counter to me to what we are trying to do to conserve 
water sometimes, although using water efficiently is definitely 
what we need to do. Utilizing it and want to utilize it is the 
goal with the idea of they will find somebody else for it, or 
the scarcity, they will give it to somebody else who they feel 
is more, so I don't know that I can speak to how it would 
affect others' programs, but certainly conservation won't be as 
much on the table or any incentive to do it.
    Ms. Hageman. Well, this is definitely a program that has 
helped your operation.
    Mr. Thayn. Oh, definitely. And there is a benefit to 
fallowing anyway, and that was known. But just the economic 
cost of following those conservation plans when there is such 
scarcity and such demand for it had little interest.
    Ms. Hageman. So at the end of your written testimony you 
discuss the idea of Congress working on a more long-term 
solution to eventually replace the pilot program. Can you 
expound upon what that program would look like, and how 
building more flexibility into a long-term solution would 
benefit farmers like you?
    Mr. Thayn. Well, I think one thing that we are tied to is 
the State, each has the Colorado compact, how much they get. 
And having the States be able to show conservation and allow 
them to have that demand management protects their water share. 
I think this program allows you to hold that in place at the 
same time conserve water for downstream.
    The second part of your question?
    Ms. Hageman. So what I was curious about is whether you had 
any other ideas of how to build flexibility into the system for 
a long-term solution to benefit our farmers.
    Mr. Thayn. Yes, as long as it is measurable and 
accountable, and the water that we are using is efficient, I 
think it is going to be important that that is recognized in 
conjunction with the conservation efforts. I think everybody is 
worried they are going to take their water.
    Ms. Hageman. Right.
    Mr. Thayn. I think there is a big concern that that is 
going to happen. So as long as farmers are doing their part, 
that they are offered protection and the flexibility to do it 
in a rotational program where you can see the benefits of it 
without the worry of the loss or the lack of access to it.
    Ms. Hageman. Well, thank you for that information.
    And Ms. Toombs, in your testimony you mentioned that 
commercial undersea cables are important to national security. 
Could you please expand on how important these technologies 
are, both domestically and globally?
    Ms. Toombs. Yes, certainly. As was mentioned----
    Ms. Hageman. Please turn on your microphone.
    Ms. Toombs. I apologize for that. Yes, certainly. As was 
mentioned earlier, and I will just reiterate it, sub-marine 
cables really provide the backbone of the Internet. I find that 
when I talk to people they are surprised that that is actually 
where the Internet comes from, if you want to call it that. 
They think it is satellite communications and it really isn't. 
This is a sub-marine cable, or a piece of a sub-marine cable, 
and they are just hiding in plain sight. And they do provide us 
with secure and fast communications domestically, 
intercontinentally, and globally.
    Ms. Hageman. So I am going to go on to Mr. Hipke real 
quickly here.
    You state in your testimony that the BLM's implementation 
of the Aquifer Recharge Flexibility Act has made it harder to 
implement and manage aquifer activities in your area. How would 
Congressman Fulcher's legislation clarify existing law, and how 
would it help the Idaho Water Resources Board more effectively 
manage its resources?
    Mr. Hipke. Thank you, Madam Chairman, members of the 
Committee.
    To give you an idea, to get an easement in the past it has 
taken me approximately 2 years to do that. And for those that 
don't know, if you happened to see the news last summer, the 
ESPA went through a potential curtailment last spring, which 
was obviously a really big deal, that would have, if we had to 
move forward with that, would have curtailed a large portion of 
farmland.
    And the reason I bring that up is the recharge program is 
working, we just need to do more. And so every year that we 
don't have the capacity to do excess water, the aquifer is 
losing approximately to get it in balance we need to put in 
about 600,000 acre-feet. And so currently the program is only 
doing about 250. On a really dry year we can only do less than 
half of that. So we have to be prepared on those wet years to 
be able to put that water in the ground, and we don't know when 
those are going to happen. So every year we don't have that in 
place presents a problem.
    Ms. Hageman. OK. Thank you for your testimony. The Chair 
now recognizes Mr. Huffman for his 5 minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Huffman. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I would like to 
start with Mr. Witherspoon.
    Mr. Witherspoon, thank you for your testimony. And you 
explained what I think is the heart of the question with Ms. 
Stansbury's bill, how the cost share requirements that we ask 
of State and local governments and other applicants may make a 
lot of sense in those contexts, but they are different for 
Tribes. It is a significant burden, and I appreciate you 
explaining that.
    If we can get those cost share requirements waived so you 
can participate in the WaterSMART program, what are some of the 
specific things that you would be able to do? And I am 
interested in the way that it might help you enhance drought 
resiliency planning and improve water management for 
communities that really are struggling.
    Mr. Witherspoon. Thank you for the question.
    The Navajo Nation has 110 communities, and each of those 
communities has water projects. And being able to approach the 
Navajo Nation Council as just one chapter to try to match the 
dollars needed to participate in the program is sometimes a 
very challenging obstacle because you have all the other 109 
chapters that also have projects. So the limited amount of 
resources the nation receives each year through its generation 
of revenue, its trust fund, and the interest earned is 
generally directed a good portion of that every year. And so 
there is a limited amount that can be directed towards roads or 
water or power or sewer.
    And so it is difficult to be able to do projects. The 
United States has 50 States, each State has water projects and 
would like to benefit from such. The Navajo Nation also has 110 
chapters. And so just at $1 million, that is $110 million to 
come up with for water projects. And each chapter has water 
projects, so it is difficult to get funds from council to try 
to make use of these programs. Thank you.
    Mr. Huffman. And I know that that is going to be the same 
experience for a lot of the Tribes in my district, so I 
appreciate your testimony there.
    I want to turn to you, Ms. Toombs, for your testimony, and 
I would like to better understand the goals of your coalition, 
the ICC, as you call it, with this legislation. And I certainly 
don't think that there is anything incompatible, as I said, 
with undersea telecommunication cables and national marine 
sanctuaries, but I do want to understand the context for this 
discussion.
    And so do you know how many cables are present right now in 
national marine sanctuaries? NOAA tells me there are about 55. 
Does that sound about right to you?
    Ms. Toombs. Thank you for your question, by the way.
    Mr. Huffman. Is that about----
    Ms. Toombs. Fifty-five cables presently in the national 
marine sanctuaries?
    Mr. Huffman. Fifty-five cables, including many 
telecommunication fiber optic cables. But 55 total cables in 
national marine sanctuaries is what NOAA says. Does that sound 
about right?
    Ms. Toombs. That sounds like more cables than I am aware 
of.
    Mr. Huffman. Well, that would probably be good for you and 
me both to know, but that is what NOAA----
    Ms. Toombs. Yes.
    Mr. Huffman [continuing]. That is what NOAA confirms.
    Ms. Toombs. Yes.
    Mr. Huffman. Do you know how many Special Use Permit 
applications for fiber optic cables, including renewals, NOAA 
has denied in the past 25 years?
    Ms. Toombs. I do not know. I don't think there would be 
many, if any.
    Mr. Huffman. So few that it is zero.
    Ms. Toombs. Yes.
    Mr. Huffman. According to NOAA.
    Ms. Toombs. That sounds about right.
    Mr. Huffman. So no permit application has been denied by 
NOAA, and we are talking about something that is being called a 
no-go zone where there are 55 existing undersea cables, 
including many of these telecommunication cables.
    So it seems that the act of obtaining a permit may not be 
the only issue at play here. Companies are apparently OK with 
going through all of the other State and Federal permit 
processes. You have to get permits from the Corps of 
Engineers----
    Ms. Toombs. Absolutely.
    Mr. Huffman [continuing]. And the State of California and 
so forth, which brings me to what I think may be the underlying 
issue here, or objective, and that is fees and rent.
    Would you agree that this legislation blocks NOAA from 
collecting a fair market return for the use of these publicly-
owned resources?
    Ms. Toombs. Before I comment on that----
    Mr. Huffman. Well, I would just ask you to, it is a yes-or-
no question. Do you agree that that is what the bill does?
    Ms. Toombs. One result would be to remove the fair market 
value requirement.
    Mr. Huffman. Right. And in fact, on----
    Ms. Toombs. Associated with the----
    Mr. Huffman. And on page 10 of your presentation to this 
Committee dated January of this month, you state that that is 
one of your objectives, to avoid the imposition of annual fair 
market fees for a Special Use Permit in national marine 
sanctuaries, correct? That is one of your objectives.
    Ms. Toombs. That would be one of the----
    Mr. Huffman. And yet you pay those fees for National Park 
Service rights-of-way and for BLM rights-of-way, right?
    Ms. Hageman. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Mr. Huffman. I yield back.
    Ms. Hageman. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Walberg for 5 
minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Walberg. I thank Madam Chair, and thanks to the panel 
for being here, and I will restrict myself from regaling you 
all with fly fishing opportunities on the Snake and the Green. 
When you bring that up, all of a sudden my fly fishing hand 
starts to shake.
    And then you mentioned Lake Erie, which is in my district. 
We could talk about walleye fishing, as well, but I won't do 
that. I want to focus. I want to focus my questions on the 
Undersea Cable Protection Act, introduced by my good friend 
from Georgia, Mr. Carter.
    I think we all agree that it is important for us to balance 
the environmental interests and national security and economic 
equities and our leadership technology when considering the 
permitting of these cables. And so, Ms. Toombs, as we have 
discussed today, you have had a lot of experience working on 
the permitting process. And that is the key issue, the 
permitting process and siting process, lengthy siting process, 
for these undersea cables.
    One specific example in your home State of California is 
the Grover Beach Cable Landing Station. Can you share any 
background on this project and how it relates to the issues we 
are discussing today related to undersea cables?
    Ms. Toombs. Thank you for your question. Yes, at the Grover 
Beach Landing, I have actually permitted four cables, three in 
2000, this was an earlier stage, and then one last year again, 
all at Grover Beach.
    And I believe your question was just what is entailed in 
that, or how----
    Mr. Walberg. What has been your experience? Yes.
    Ms. Toombs. My experience was that it is a very rigorous 
process, and the first round of cables, because this was early 
on, was a bit more arduous than the later one. And the reason 
for that was that it was new, it was an unfamiliar type of 
project to agencies. So, we did a lot of studies, resulted in a 
lot of mitigations that have been carried through over the 
years.
    And I would say the experience more currently or more 
recently has been that industry has learned a lot over that 
time. The agencies have learned a lot over that time. And so 
now it has become a more predictable process. And so it 
actually was a process that was a little easier than it was the 
first time. But now those cables are in a newly designated 
sanctuary, and perhaps that is what you were getting at, so 
they were permitted before the sanctuary was designated.
    Mr. Walberg. Yes, I guess in these studies have you seen 
any indication of sub-sea cables being harmful to the 
environment the way they are established?
    Ms. Toombs. No, again, I have permitted cables, many in the 
United States, globally and we take a lot of care to put them 
in places that will not harm the environment. And there is a 
lot of monitoring and rigorous oversight. And we have not 
found, despite many, many follow-up surveys, many follow-up 
studies, that the sub-marine cables have caused any harm to the 
environment.
    Mr. Walberg. Who at NOAA or otherwise in the permitting 
process is ensuring the national security and economic 
interests and that technology needs are also considered when 
permitting cables? Who at NOAA does this?
    Ms. Toombs. Pardon me?
    Mr. Walberg. Who at NOAA does this?
    Ms. Toombs. In my interactions with NOAA for permitting, 
that is really not part of the permitting process to consider 
those factors. We really focus on environmental protection and 
the environment.
    Mr. Walberg. Which are important factors.
    Ms. Toombs. They are.
    Mr. Walberg. And I think that the sponsor of the bill 
pointed that out, so it seems that there ought to be some 
consideration taken for that.
    I guess my final question to you, Ms. Toombs, can you talk 
about the national security implications of route 
diversification rather than effectively funneling the cables 
through one location?
    Ms. Toombs. Yes, I can. And one of the important factors 
about having diverse routes is so we don't have all the cables 
going into one location or congested into a location because of 
damage that could be caused, that could really make our global 
networks susceptible to or being vulnerable to losing our 
communications with the rest of the world, with financial----
    Mr. Walberg. Sabotage.
    Ms. Toombs. Sabotage could be one, but there--it could be 
intentional, it could be unintentional. So yes.
    Mr. Walberg. Unintentional, yes.
    Ms. Toombs. Either way, it is damaging to our security.
    Mr. Walberg. I appreciate it. I see my time has expired, 
and I thank the Chair and yield back.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Ms. 
Stansbury for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Ms. Stansbury. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
    Mr. Witherspoon, thank you again for being here. I think 
one of the benefits of hearings like this is to help bring more 
information to us in Washington, D.C. and to those that may not 
be familiar with the context on the ground.
    And I was born in San Juan County and grew up partly in 
Farmington, New Mexico, and my mother worked for the Navajo 
Nation for a while, and drove and helped. She worked for 
services for the blind and helped people in very rural 
communities go shopping and things like that.
    And I think that one thing that is really difficult for 
people who are not familiar with places like the rural areas 
and communities of the Navajo Nation is to understand that in 
the United States in the year 2025 there are communities across 
the largest tribal nation in the United States, 27,000 square 
miles, it is the size of Massachusetts, Vermont, and New 
Hampshire combined, that still do not have electricity and 
running water, and that there are thousands of families, as you 
said, Mr. Witherspoon, that don't have piped water into their 
homes and they have to haul water.
    And I wonder if you could share for us here today, because 
I think it would be helpful for people to understand what that 
looks like. What does it look like to have to haul water?
    Mr. Witherspoon. Thank you for the question.
    I have been able to do a number of presentations with my 
colleague and our chapters, as well as in a number of college 
institutions, and one of the pictures that we display is two 
elders that are using a wheelbarrow, and they have to go about 
a mile and a half, and they have jugs in their wheelbarrow to 
be able to haul water for themselves. And so for them to do 
that and certainly, they both have white hair, and it is 
certainly a challenge for them. I think it is Jean and Larry.
    But there is also cost for those that use vehicles. I think 
the cost for municipalities for 100 gallons of water is 20 to 
$0.40, but it is about $13.30 for those that have to haul 
water. And so there is certainly an economic burden on 
certainly using the vehicles, and travel, and that type of 
cost. Thank you.
    Ms. Stansbury. And I think that it is not just the economic 
cost. It is a psychological cost. It is a physical cost. When 
you talk to families that have to haul water, and there are 
families even, like I was mentioning To'hajiilee, the people 
have to drive 20, 30, sometimes 100 miles to go fill up water 
tanks just to cook food, just to take a shower, just to have 
clean drinking water.
    Like, this is the year 2025 and there are thousands of 
families in the Navajo Nation that don't have piped water in 
their homes. And to the extent that the Navajo Nation is 
willing to have members of this Committee visit, I think it 
would be very impactful, especially as we are working to try to 
get the water settlement that you all recently approved across 
the finish line.
    So I want to just make sure that when Mr. Witherspoon says 
that the needs of the Navajo Nation are immense and urgent, 
like, these are fundamental human rights issues.
    The fact that we have elderly members of these communities 
living in very rural areas that don't have piped water in their 
homes, it should not be a condition of modern life in the 
United States at the Navajo Nation. The WaterSMART program, as 
you mentioned, Mr. Witherspoon, is just one small tool, but it 
is an important tool in the arsenal of addressing the immense 
water infrastructure needs of our tribal communities. And I am 
hopeful that not only this particular bill, which will waive 
cost sharing requirements for specific projects where there are 
high economic needs of communities, will pass, but that we can 
also advance the Navajo Nation's water settlement through 
Congress this year, as well as the other pueblo settlements 
that we are trying to get across the finish line because I 
think that, if the American people at large really understood 
what it looks like and what the psychological, spiritual, 
physical and just life stress it is to not have adequate water 
infrastructure, I think that people would really be shocked.
    And so I am grateful that you traveled here today to share 
your testimony, and grateful that the Navajo Nation is 
supporting this bill. And I want to thank you and the president 
and also the staff who are behind you for being here today. 
Thank you.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Ezell 
for his 5 minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Ezell. Thank you, Madam Chairman, and I am very excited 
to be here on the Committee, and working under your leadership, 
and being with everybody on the 119th Congress.
    H.R. 261, the Undersea Cable Protection Act, is a crucially 
necessary bill. Our current undersea cable network connects 
every continent except Antarctica. These cables are imperative 
to maintaining our national security.
    While I believe in protecting our marine environments, 
finding the balance of doing so and protecting our national 
interest is paramount. This is especially true since we know 
these regulations already exist at our State and local levels. 
Unfortunately, Special Use Permits and other burdensome 
requirements that are imposed on these cables have disrupted 
progress, which can ultimately lead to national security 
vulnerabilities. NOAA realized this and issued a notice to 
relieve some of these duplicative and costly regulations for 2 
years.
    H.R. 261 would make permanent NOAA's decision to no longer 
require Special Use Permits for telecommunications sub-marine 
cables in a marine sanctuary. It would also prohibit any other 
NOAA authorization for all existing and future cables within 
the boundaries of any marine sanctuary.
    Ms. Toombs, in your testimony you note that the commercial 
undersea cables are subject to a robust permitting process. 
Could you expand on the number of agencies and permits at both 
the Federal and State level that are involved in permitting 
process for undersea cables?
    Ms. Toombs. Thank you for your question. Yes, I can.
    In terms of the types of permits we need to obtain and how 
many, and again, I am speaking of the U.S. at the Federal level 
there would be probably a minimum of six Federal agencies that 
would need to be part of that process, whether through permits 
or through consultations. At the State level, of course, that 
will vary from State to State. But I would say probably, at a 
minimum, four different resource agencies or land agencies 
would be involved in permitting these.
    And because it is not all underwater, there would be local 
agencies, as well, the local communities or planning 
departments would get involved, and that could be a handful of 
agencies or more, depending on the complexity of the landing.
    And if I may make a follow-up point to one of the earlier 
questions about NOAA not denying any SUPs, the reason for that 
is there probably haven't been any applications. And I can 
speak from experience that during the early phases of route 
development, site development for new projects, we have often 
advised that that pathway is too risky from a project 
standpoint or from a development standpoint. And so one of the 
reasons there haven't been any permit applications denied is 
that we haven't submitted any, based on the risk----
    Mr. Ezell. And roughly how long does this take?
    Ms. Toombs. It is unclear. We don't really know because we 
haven't actually gone through the process in several years. The 
point was made earlier that there haven't been any new cables 
permitted in the marine sanctuary for about 20 years.
    Mr. Ezell. OK. What----
    Ms. Toombs. So we don't honestly know how long----
    Mr. Ezell. So we really don't know.
    One criticism we might hear about H.R. 261 is that it 
somehow circumvents or undermines the existing permitting 
process. But you and I both know that this legislation simply 
removes one step, the Special Use Permit, in a process that 
involves several layers of review.
    Can you talk about the difficulty the industry has faced in 
trying to navigate the Special Use Permit process?
    And how would this legislation improve the permitting 
process for these projects?
    Mr. Ezell. Yes. And as I mentioned, because we haven't been 
applying for Special Use Permits, it is hard to say how we 
would navigate it. That has been one of the reasons that we 
have avoided doing that, because it is an uncertain path. It 
adds uncertainty.
    And I am sorry, the second half of your question?
    Mr. Ezell. No, that is all right. Let's move on just a 
minute.
    These projects can often be decades long and require 
extensive levels of investment. Would that be correct to say 
that?
    Ms. Toombs. Yes, that would be correct.
    Mr. Ezell. Thank you.
    Madam Chairman, I yield back.
    Ms. Hageman. The Chair now recognizes Ms. Hoyle for 5 
minutes of questioning.
    Ms. Hoyle. Thank you.
    First of all, I want to thank Mr. Thayn and your father for 
coming all the way out here. It really, really matters. I am 
sure, as a farmer, you have a lot of things to do at home. 
Coming to D.C. is quite a sacrifice, but it is important to 
hear about stewardship and conservation from people that are 
utilizing these practices on the ground, as opposed to people 
who hear about it or read about it from somewhere else. So I 
just wanted to thank you so much for being here.
    Secondly, I want to thank all the witnesses.
    And Mr. Witherspoon, for you, would you care to share any 
about the barriers the Navajo Nation has encountered when 
accessing or participating in WaterSMART programs, and how 
these challenges has impacted your water management efforts?
    Mr. Witherspoon. One of the challenges that the nation 
faces is capacity. In the Department of Water Resources, we 
have four individuals, hydrologists, and we have 110 
communities that each have water projects. And so being able to 
apply sometimes for the Federal water grant programs is a great 
undertaking. And so a lot of times they will look at large, 
regional projects to be able to address their time and 
capacity.
    There are chapters. And certainly chapters at a particular 
level, they have difficulty getting the expertise, certainly, 
to apply, and then certainly trying to get that matching fund 
from the Navajo Nation Government.
    So those are some of the challenges that are faced to be 
able to make access to these grant programs. Thank you.
    Ms. Hoyle. Thank you. I think it is important that Congress 
take steps to address these challenges so that Tribes can fully 
access these programs as they were intended.
    With that, Ms. Toombs, I want to thank you for your 
testimony, and then I would like you to address incidents where 
sub-sea fiber optic cable installations went poorly and did 
result in environmental harm.
    Ms. Toombs. Thank you for your question.
    I have been involved in many projects, as I mentioned in my 
testimony, and I have not had any projects where I would say it 
resulted in environmental harm.
    Ms. Hoyle. OK. So clearly, you were not involved with the 
Facebook undersea fiber optic cable off the coast of Oregon, 
just north of my district, which----
    Ms. Toombs. That is correct.
    Ms. Hoyle. Yes. The Facebook subsidiary created a mess off 
the Oregon coast when a drill bit broke and left 1,100 feet of 
6-inch steel pipe and 11-inch diameter drill tip, and 6,500 
gallons of drilling fluid in the ocean. Two sinkholes later 
formed along the cables pathway, and then Facebook just left, 
did not tell anyone about it. It was found and now we are 
working on addressing that issue.
    And so my question is, isn't it reasonable to ensure that 
companies continue to purchase general liability insurance, and 
if a disaster occurs, which again, did occur just a couple of 
years ago off the Oregon coast, that they pay for natural 
resource damages and cleanup? And this is the current policy of 
the Office of National Marine Sanctuaries. What is your 
position on that?
    My concern is that this bill would remove that liability 
protection, and that is very concerning.
    Ms. Toombs. Again, thank you for this question.
    Ms. Hoyle. Sure.
    Ms. Toombs. And I do understand your concern. I should also 
mention that the technique used is in itself considered a 
mitigation. It is a requirement to use that technique in 
Oregon, as well as California, because it is considered to be 
more environmentally safe.
    Ms. Hoyle. So, sorry, Ms. Toombs, there is such a short 
time. But specifically to the----
    Ms. Toombs. Oh, the liability----
    Ms. Hoyle. Protection and responsibility----
    Ms. Toombs. My understanding is that the National Marine 
Sanctuary Act still would retain the component or the section 
that has to do with liability for damages. My understanding is 
that is not part of the SUP.
    Ms. Hoyle. OK. Thank you so much, and we will just need to 
clarify that with----
    Ms. Toombs. I am happy to clarify it.
    Ms. Hoyle [continuing]. And follow up.
    Ms. Toombs. Yes.
    Ms. Hoyle. Thank you so much.
    Ms. Toombs. Of course.
    Ms. Hoyle. I yield.
    Ms. Hageman. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Crank for 5 
minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Crank. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    I am very fortunate. I represent Colorado Springs, the home 
of United States Space Command. I also happen to serve on the 
House Armed Services Committee. And I will tell you I had a 
briefing the other day from the commander of U.S. Space 
Command, and pretty much all we talked about was how China is 
looking at ways, particularly in space, to disrupt the U.S. 
economy, that they see that as economic warfare, that they 
could literally shut this country down by using their assets in 
space against U.S. assets. And I think this is a similar 
situation here with the cables. As the sponsor of the bill 
noted, $10 trillion daily go through those cables.
    I got to tell you, I think sometimes the Chinese Communist 
Party laughs at the debates probably that we have here, that we 
would not streamline a process here to make sure that our 
assets, our military assets particularly, or our economic 
assets aren't protected. This is a false choice that some 
people present, that it is either to protect our marine 
preserves or have national security. You don't have to choose 
between those two. We do both. We do it every single day. And I 
think that we will rue the day someday, looking back, if we 
ever do have the Chinese or another one of our adversaries use 
this against the United States. So I would suggest that.
    Ms. Toombs, do you think that the current permitting 
timeline for undersea cables puts the U.S. in a vulnerable 
position?
    Ms. Toombs. Thank you for your question. I would say it is 
less the permitting timeline itself, but rather the uncertainty 
of it.
    Mr. Crank. Yes.
    Ms. Toombs. It is not predictable. And especially, as I 
mentioned and has been mentioned here, for critical 
infrastructure, a 5-year term on a permission is really not 
long enough for that type of investment. And so I would say 
that is really one of the deal killers on it. Not just the 
timeline, but not knowing whether you can proceed on that 
timeline and have any assurance that you will get a permit at 
the end.
    Mr. Crank. Is it so difficult right now that these marine 
preserves are there that if somebody is going to put cable, 
they don't bother going through them so they go around them, 
therefore creating this pipeline where we have a have a 
vulnerability because they are all close together?
    Ms. Toombs. Yes, that has been one of the consequences of 
it is that, again, because of the uncertainty, it is difficult 
to commit to any sort of an investment or capital project, 
infrastructure project for that duration of time. So to de-risk 
that you go elsewhere.
    Mr. Crank. Right.
    Ms. Toombs. Yes.
    Mr. Crank. Thank you.
    And Madam Chair, I was happy to see that Western water 
remains a priority for this Subcommittee. I knew it would be 
with your leadership in the authorization and oversight plan. 
It is no secret that Western States have been facing a historic 
drought that has affected the water availability in the 
Colorado River. Programs have been introduced at the Federal, 
State, and local levels to address these historic droughts and 
improve water conservation. And the Colorado River System 
Conservation Pilot Program, or SCPP, has funded numerous 
projects in Colorado to encourage voluntary water conservation. 
And I would just thank you, Madam Chair, for your continued 
focus on this. Thank you. I yield back.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. And the Chair now recognizes Ms. 
Elfreth for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Ms. Elfreth. Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thank 
you to our panelists for being here today.
    I think we can all appreciate the importance of, certainly, 
national security and our 21st century economy when it comes to 
these underwater cables. At the same time, government has gone 
through the trouble of designating these national marine 
sanctuaries for a number of reasons, including their fragility, 
their importance and impact on the broader ecosystem that 
surrounds them. Certainly, that is true in my home State of 
Maryland. And so I think this is a balance that we need to get 
right, and that is what I would like to hone in on today.
    It is also my understanding that groups such as kayak 
outfitters and stand-up paddle board companies, when they are 
going into a national marine sanctuary now, certainly in 
Mallows Bay in my State, in Maryland, they have to apply for a 
Special Use Permit, and they have to pay a fee, recognizing the 
potential human impact on these sensitive and fragile areas.
    And so I would like to hone in on where Ranking Member 
Huffman began, which is by circumventing the Special Use Permit 
this bill also circumvents the fee that goes to the direct 
management of these national marine sanctuaries. So can you 
tell me, Ms. Toombs, how much money the companies you represent 
would be saving by circumventing that fee process?
    Ms. Toombs. Thank you for your question.
    Really, the FMV, or the fair market value fee, is not part 
of what I do as part of this permitting process. And as I 
mentioned, we really haven't undertaken that. So I am not in a 
position to say how much that would be.
    Ms. Elfreth. OK. It is my understanding that, given a 20-
mile route through a sanctuary, the fair market fee would be 
anywhere between $2.8 million and $7 million, again, that fee 
going back to the management of that marine sanctuary because 
of its designated importance this government has established.
    My second question is around the text of the bill as 
written. I have concerns about some ambiguity here, 
particularly the legislation, as written. Let's again take my 
home State of Maryland. I represent the coastline of the 
Chesapeake Bay. Pardon me. The bill, as written--I am concerned 
where it says any State or Federal agency--say if a company in 
North Carolina wanted to have an interest in--my goodness.
    You are reminding me to have some water.
    [Laughter.]
    Ms. Elfreth. Had an interest in undersea cables that went 
into Federal waters off the coast of Maryland.
    Ms. Hageman. If you would like to take a few minutes, we 
can go to someone else and----
    Ms. Elfreth. I will get there, I promise. One more 
question.
    Say a North Carolina company has interest in undersea 
cables in Federal waters off the coast of Maryland through a 
national marine sanctuary. Could a State agency in North 
Carolina circumvent the regulatory powers of a State agency in 
Maryland if we had concerns under this bill in the text as 
written?
    Ms. Toombs. No, I don't see a way for that to affect any 
State regulations.
    Ms. Elfreth. OK. I would like to see if we can find some 
clarity on that, Madam Chair, just the ambiguity of that 
particular line is concerning to me. To make sure that we 
respect States----
    Ms. Toombs. And if I can--if it would be useful to have 
follow-up information I can provide you, I would be happy to do 
so.
    Ms. Elfreth. I would greatly appreciate working with you on 
that, just to make sure that the language is as tight as 
possible and, again, that we are balancing here----
    Ms. Toombs. Yes.
    Ms. Elfreth [continuing]. National security interests, 
economic interests, but the interests----
    Ms. Toombs. Right.
    Ms. Elfreth [continuing]. Of protecting these national 
marine sanctuaries.
    Ms. Toombs. Yes, and on a personal note, if I may, I 
wouldn't have agreed to be here if I felt that this bill would 
in any way erode the protections we have on the environment, 
and particularly on the marine environment.
    Ms. Elfreth. And with my remaining time, and on that note, 
would you agree that there is an interest, if this bill were to 
pass, the Special Use Permit would not be needed, but still 
that fair market fee piece of this for the management of those 
national marines. Is it still important that the companies that 
you represent would still be paying their fair share towards 
the management of these sensitive areas?
    Ms. Toombs. Again, I really can't speak to how the funding 
works at the sanctuaries, so I would prefer not to speculate on 
that.
    Ms. Elfreth. OK, thank you very much.
    And Madam Chair, I yield my time.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. And there will be an opportunity to 
submit a written question if you have one, and then there is a 
procedure to provide responses. So you will have an opportunity 
to follow-up.
    The Chair now recognizes Mrs. Radewagen for 5 minutes of 
questioning.
    Mrs. Radewagen. Thank you, Chairwoman Hageman and Ranking 
Member Hoyle for holding this hearing today. I also want to 
thank Representative Carter for his introduction of H.R. 261.
    The territories are already very isolated, and we rely 
heavily on undersea cables to remain connected to the rest of 
the country and the outside world. I believe both sides of the 
aisle can agree we need to protect our marine environment, and 
I can proudly say that the United States has some of the 
highest standards in the world when it comes to environmental 
protections. Unfortunately, we sometimes prioritize preserving 
the bureaucratic machine over the actual communities who are 
supposed to benefit from these protections. My question is for 
you, Ms. Toombs.
    In your testimony you mentioned the robust planning and 
permitting required to lay undersea cable in the first place, 
even outside of any plans to pass through a marine sanctuary. 
Can you please provide some more information on what is 
required and how safe the process is regarding protecting ocean 
life?
    If H.R. 261 were to pass, do you believe the existing 
safeguards are enough to ensure that the local ecology of the 
sanctuaries won't be negatively impacted by any hypothetical 
future cables?
    Ms. Toombs. Thank you for your question and for mentioning 
the territories, as well. I have permanent cables in Puerto 
Rico and islands like Hawaii, and resource protection there is 
very, very important, and the current regimes there are also 
very robust, even though there aren't national marine 
sanctuaries there.
    I lost my train of thought. Repeat the last part of the 
question, please, I apologize.
    Mrs. Radewagen. If H.R. 261 would pass, do you believe the 
existing safeguards are enough to assure that the local 
ecologies----
    Ms. Toombs. Ah, yes. OK, I understand the question. Thank 
you.
    Yes, I would agree that there would not be, again, an 
erosion of protections or circumventing NOAA.
    I would say that what this would do is help integrate NOAA, 
the sanctuary component of NOAA, into the overall permitting 
process because they would be essential to the consultation. 
They have specialized marine science or specialized expertise 
on their staff and with the sanctuary, so their input into the 
permitting process and assessing impacts would be essential.
    Mrs. Radewagen. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I yield back 
the balance of my time.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes 
Congresswoman Maloy for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Ms. Maloy. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Mr. Thayn, thanks for being here and thanks for bringing 
your parents. That is the most Utah thing I have seen all day.
    [Laughter.]
    Ms. Maloy. I have spent a little bit of time in your part 
of the State doing conservation work back when I was a soil 
conservationist with the NRCS, and I know how seriously the 
farmers in eastern Utah take their obligation to the Colorado 
River. And I know that a lot of times agriculture gets a bad 
rap when we talk about conservation, and people like to point 
the finger at you. But I know that agriculture has been part of 
the solution for a long time. The population of Utah has grown 
a lot in the last 200 years. Our water hasn't increased much, 
so thank you for being part of the solution.
    Thank you for traveling all the way here. I did this once. 
I was in your seat once, and I was really disappointed when I 
saw how few people were sitting up here listening. So just know 
that we do appreciate you being here. We are usually double-
booked.
    Most of the things I wanted to ask you have already been 
asked, but I just want to put a fine point on it. What is the 
water year looking like this year for you?
    Mr. Thayn. Well, south, where we are, is awful dusty, and 
around us is, I think the northern parts are doing a little 
better. Certainly, central-southern Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, 
obviously California. But it is not looking so good at the 
moment.
    Ms. Maloy. And if I asked any of your neighbors what the 
water year is looking like, they would all know. And that is 
because your livelihood is really tied to water. And so you 
have a high incentive to try to conserve, to try to be a good 
steward of the resources, and to make sure that your farm lasts 
for another generation. And I just want to make sure that you 
know we see that and we appreciate it, and that everybody here 
recognizes that.
    Mr. Witherspoon, really quickly, I just want to say 
WaterSMART is a good program, and I would like to see Tribes 
taking advantage of it. So I am going to have my team reach out 
to you and Ms. Stansbury and see if we can find a place where 
we can all get to some agreement on that. I don't have a 
question. I just wanted you to know that.
    Mr. Hipke, you look a little lonely and neglected over 
here, so I want to ask you a question, actually, you and Ms. 
Toombs the same question, because I want to use my time really 
efficiently. But both of you are here talking about permitting 
processes that are longer and more onerous than they need to 
be, and so my question for both of you is, do you have 
confidence that we can make permitting decisions that were good 
for the environment, good for Idahoans, good for the ocean in 
less time and less expensively than we are doing it now?
    Mr. Hipke. I will go ahead and start off. Yes, I do.
    Thank you for the question, and I will be brief about it. 
One of the things is my understanding, I am kind of the boots-
on-the-ground type of person, but as far as with when we 
crafted this legislation it was actually BLM that asked for the 
NEPA waiver, which makes sense given there is already an 
easement there, we are not really doing anything new.
    So yes, I think there is a way. The people who have worked 
in the field with these agencies have been fantastic, but they 
get somewhat tied around the legislation that is in place.
    Ms. Maloy. Thank you. I agree. I think sometimes our 
processes become an end unto themselves and we forget the 
purpose of them.
    Ms. Toombs?
    Ms. Toombs. Yes, I would agree. I do think there is a way 
that we can balance environmental protection and resource 
protection with a predictable and reliable permitting process 
that could be, again, shortened, more clarified. And, yes, I 
believe it is possible.
    Ms. Maloy. And you were asked earlier how many applications 
have been denied. But I want to know if you can tell us how 
many applications have been delayed and made unnecessarily more 
expensive.
    Ms. Toombs. That is a good question. We are not privy to 
who may have submitted applications and withdrew them.
    What I can say is it is more the opportunities lost, 
applications that were never submitted because the process was 
really too unclear and unpredictable. And that is a hard--there 
is not a number for that, but it is lost opportunity.
    Ms. Maloy. Thank you. I just appreciate all of you being 
here. I know it is a sacrifice to come here and testify, but it 
really does help us come up with better outcomes.
    Mr. Thayn, last question for you. Is it colder in 
Washington, D.C. right now or in Green River, Utah?
    Mr. Thayn. It is about the same. I think it is a little bit 
more humid here, though. We have a drier cold.
    Ms. Maloy. It is definitely more humid here, and the cold 
goes through your clothes in a way it doesn't in Utah. I 
apologize for that. We will get you home soon.
    [Laughter.]
    Ms. Maloy. Madam Chair, I yield back.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you. I think the way to put it is 
oftentimes the process is the punishment. And that is what we 
need to change. As Representative Maloy so accurately stated, 
we sometimes lose sight of what the very purpose of these 
processes and permitting requirements are for, and they are 
actually to have an end. There is an end goal, and we need to 
make sure that this is working correctly.
    The Chair now recognizes Representative Carter for 5 
minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Carter. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you all for 
being here today.
    Ms. Toombs, I want to speak to you. I spoke about H.R. 261, 
as you did. And it is looking to essentially omit the 
additional step of acquiring a Special Use Permit in a national 
marine sanctuary. But I think there are some concerns from 
people that it is going to cut NOAA out of the permitting 
process. Do you think that is the case, that by eliminating the 
SUP process we eliminate NOAA from the permitting process 
altogether?
    Ms. Toombs. Thank you for your question, and also thank you 
for bringing the legislation here.
    No, the intent is not to cut NOAA out of the process. In 
fact, the process already has two different consultations with 
NOAA for any sub-marine cable project, one under the Endangered 
Species Act, the Marine Mammal Protection Act, and the other 
under Magnuson-Stevens for essential fish habitat.
    NOAA, for sanctuaries, would be consulted. So it would 
offer another opportunity for NOAA to have an input in that 
process. And really, it is useful for the project to get that 
expertise early on.
    Mr. Carter. Good, good. I just want to make sure everybody 
understands we are not trying to eliminate them. We value their 
input, and we would still have their input.
    We have talked about the environmental studies that are 
required in the permitting of a sub-sea cable, regardless of 
where they are being deployed. Can you explain very briefly the 
purpose of the environmental reviews?
    Ms. Toombs. Yes. The purpose of the environmental reviews 
is to help inform the agencies with permitting authority to 
make their decisions. So they can't make a decision until they 
have undergone these processes so they understand what the 
consequences of their decision might be. And so that is why we 
conduct multiple studies, because they go to different agencies 
for different decisions and different recommendations.
    Mr. Carter. So that is the additional information that is 
gained by doing the environmental reviews?
    Ms. Toombs. Yes.
    Mr. Carter. Yes. So what is the purpose of SUP?
    Ms. Toombs. The purpose of SUP? I mean, I did not write it, 
but the purpose of the SUP, I don't know.
    [Laughter.]
    Ms. Toombs. Well, I am----
    Mr. Carter. OK, thank you. No, no----
    Ms. Toombs. I didn't mean that facetiously.
    Mr. Carter [continuing]. Great answer, great answer.
    Ms. Toombs. OK.
    Mr. Carter. Do you believe that the existing permitting 
process outside of a sanctuary provides adequate protection for 
marine habitats?
    Ms. Toombs. Yes, I do. As I explained, we have a number of 
studies, and all of them factor into decisions that the 
permitting agencies make.
    Mr. Carter. OK. Bear with me on this one, OK? In August 
2024 NOAA issued a notice to modify the Special Use Permit, or 
the SUP, for commercial undersea cables, which includes a 2-
year pause on the need for these projects to obtain a special 
use permit. While some may say that this solves this challenge 
in the permitting process, we have heard concerns in our office 
that the process doesn't fully solve the challenge.
    Do you think NOAA's announcement last August fully solves 
this problem, or is additional action needed?
    Ms. Toombs. Again, thank you for that.
    Referring to the pause, what it does, and the ICC, I must 
say, appreciates NOAA's review or consideration of the 
regulations. But it also, my mantra has been uncertainty. So 
during that 2-year pause there is still some uncertainty as to 
what the outcome would be.
    Mr. Carter. Right.
    Ms. Toombs. Yes.
    Mr. Carter. OK. All right. Well, thank you very much for 
your input and your expertise.
    And Madam Chair, again, thank you for allowing me to waive 
on, and I yield back.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you, Mr. Carter. And our final 
questioner today is Mr. McDowell.
    I recognize you for 5 minutes.
    Mr. McDowell. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the 
witnesses for being here today to testify before our Committee.
    Ms. Toombs, one theme that members of this Committee have 
talked about a lot is the multiple use and stewardship of our 
Nation's natural resources. And given your extensive 
involvement in permitting and licensing of undersea cable 
projects, could you talk about how these cables interact with 
the marine environment?
    Ms. Toombs. Thank you for your question.
    The interaction with the marine environment is really 
mostly during the installation phase, when the cables are being 
installed. But when we have done our job right, and I think we 
do it right because we have done this a lot, there really isn't 
interaction with the marine environment because most of these 
cables are buried for the purpose of not interacting with the 
marine environment or with marine users like commercial 
fishing.
    Mr. McDowell. Got you. You mentioned in your testimony that 
new technology has helped these cables avoid environmental 
impacts. Can you expand on the technological advancements or 
other best practices that have allowed for these cables to 
exist in a way that respects and protects our marine resources?
    Ms. Toombs. Yes. Some of the practices and technological 
changes come at different points of the cable's lifetime. 
Probably some of the most important parts are right in the 
beginning, some of the analyses and surveys and data collection 
that take place so that we can put cables in places on the 
seabed that will be the least harmful and most protective to 
the cables, least harmful to the environment and most 
protective to the cables at the same time.
    Some of this is pretty technical. It is really beyond me 
how some of the route engineers analyze data and come up with 
some of the routing that they do, but our input into it is the 
environmental piece of it. During installation the installation 
process has become better about being more precise, I guess 
about how the cables are installed, and what their conditions 
are as they are installed.
    But then also more to the community level, we have a lot of 
best management practices that are undertaken during the 
installation process, especially at the shore and near shore 
having to do with public safety, and making sure that we try to 
disrupt beach use and beach goers and ocean recreation as 
little as possible.
    So there are a lot of notifications and engagement with 
local communities, with commercial fishermen, of course, and 
the agencies to make sure that the installation goes as quickly 
as possible and as according to plan as possible.
    Mr. McDowell. Sure. Well, Mr. Thayn, I do just want to say 
that I think it is pretty neat that you have your dad here 
today. And your two sons are not here, is that correct?
    Mr. Thayn. Correct.
    Mr. McDowell. Are they back home working on the farm?
    Mr. Thayn. Yes. We left them home.
    Mr. McDowell. Well, I don't know what camera is on, but you 
all get back to work.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Thayn. Ma'am, I yield back.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you, and I thank the witnesses for your 
valuable testimony and the members for all of your questions.
    A very thoughtful discussion today, and I think helpful in 
terms of assessing the four bills that we are considering, and 
providing background, additional background information for us 
that will help us be better and do better at our jobs.
    The members of the Committee may have some additional 
questions for the witnesses, and we will ask you to respond to 
those in writing if they are, in fact, received. Under 
Committee Rule 3, members of the Committee must submit 
questions to the Subcommittee Clerk by 5 p.m. Eastern Time on 
Tuesday, January 28, and the hearing record will be held open 
for 10 business days for such responses.
    Without objection, the Subcommittee stands adjourned.

    [Whereupon, at 11:49 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

            [ADDITIONAL MATERIALS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD]

   Prepared Statement of the Hon. Russ Fulcher, a Representative in 
                    Congress from the State of Idaho

    Mr. Chairman, thank you for the opportunity to talk about my bill--
H.R. 331. Mr. Hipke, good to see you, thank you for coming all this way 
from Idaho!
    This legislation amends the Aquifer Recharge Flexibility Act, which 
was enacted into law in 2020, to ensure states, local governments, 
Tribes, and public entities can use existing Bureau of Land Management 
rights-of-way, easements, and permits for aquifer recharge without 
unnecessary federal delays.
    The Eastern Snake Plain Aquifer is essential to Idaho's 
agricultural economy and the communities that rely on it. From ranchers 
in Owyhee County to orchardists in the Payette River Basin and dairy 
operations in the Treasure Valley, countless Idahoans depend on this 
resource to support their livelihoods. Towns like Emmett, Weiser, and 
Caldwell are just a few examples of communities sustained by its 
availability.
    Unfortunately, misinterpretation of the original law by the BLM has 
created confusion and stalled critical recharge projects in Idaho. H.R. 
331 provides a clear, efficient path forward, ensuring these projects 
can proceed without redundant bureaucracy.
    This bill supports Idaho's agricultural future by ensuring 
stability for the families, farms, and businesses central to the 
state's economy. I urge my colleagues to support this important piece 
of legislation. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.

                                 ______
                                 

Submissions for the Record by Rep. Hoyle

How Meta, Google and Amazon are quietly damaging the Pacific sea floor

San Francisco Chronicle, June 26, 2024 by Hayley Brazier

https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/fiber-optic-
cable-ocean-19532211.php

                                 *****

    In 2020, Edge Cable Holdings, a Facebook subsidiary, was burying a 
new fiber-optic cable into the seabed near Tierra Del Mar, Ore. Working 
beneath a rugged mixture of basalt rock mounds, unconsolidated sands 
and sandstone bedrock, the company's drilling operation went awry. 
Stalled out, the company ditched its metal pipes, drilling fluids and 
other construction materials in the ocean: Out of sight, out of mind.

    When Oregon's Department of State Lands learned of the abandonment, 
it ordered Edge Cable Holdings and Facebook (now Meta) to pay a fine. 
But the damage was done. Two sinkholes formed along the installation 
path and most of the materials will remain lodged in the seafloor 
forever. These items, and thousands of gallons of drilling fluid, pose 
a risk to the surrounding seafloor ecosystem. Despite public outrage, 
the company returned to complete the cable in 2021, with debris from 
the first attempt still lodged in the seabed.

    The cable was not the first to slither into Oregon's stretch of the 
Pacific Ocean, and it's by no means the last. Big technology 
companies--including Amazon, China Mobile, and Google--are flocking to 
Oregon's coastline to land transpacific fiber-optic cables. Most 
recently in August 2023, the Department of State Lands approved a 
9,500-mile fiber-optic cable connecting Singapore, Guam and the United 
States.

    What has transformed Oregon into an undersea cable hotspot, and how 
is the installation process affecting a vibrant ocean ecosystem? The 
explanation resides in tax breaks, swift permitting processes, cheap 
energy, vast amounts of open land for data centers and a historical 
carelessness for the environment shared by the state and tech 
companies.

    Fiber-optic cables transmit data with pulses of light through thin 
glass fibers. In 2022, they provided over 98% of the world's internet 
services and international phone calls. There are more than 745,000 
miles of submarine fiber-optic cables in operation around the world--
that's enough cable to wrap around the Earth's equator more than 29 
times. It's the work of cables, not satellites, that connect us on a 
global scale.

    The Pacific, a wider and deeper ocean basin and therefore more 
difficult to wire, received its first transoceanic cable in 1902. By 
the early 1900s, the global seafloor hosted around 200,000 miles of 
telegraph cables. By the 1950s, there were nearly 500,000 miles of 
telephone and telegraph cables, with fiber-optic cables joining the mix 
in the 1980s.

    Back then, many transpacific cables landed in California, 
Washington and British Columbia, where they could link up with 
transportation hubs and industrial centers on land. That began to 
change in 1991 when Oregon landed its first transpacific fiber-optic 
cable. Called the North Pacific Cable, the privately owned line 
connected Oregon to Alaska and Japan. In the three decades since, the 
state has welcomed a new fiber-optic cable every four or five years, in 
tandem with new data centers--large, high-security buildings that store 
rows of servers. These servers host the internet's millions of 
websites.

    There are significant onshore incentives for cable owners to land 
their lines in Oregon. The state's enterprise zones tax-exemption 
program allows individual towns to negotiate property tax breaks for 
big construction projects, saving companies millions of dollars each 
year. In exchange for the tax breaks, tech companies provide a small 
influx of jobs and tax revenue to small communities hurting from the 
decline of the timber industry. In 2015, Oregon lifted its cap on 
enterprise zones to attract even more data centers, just as more cables 
arrived along the shoreline.
    Consider Meta, which owns a 4.6 million square foot data center 
complex in rural Prineville. Although it's far from the ocean in a 
former timber town, this data center connects to a network of 
underground fiber-optic cables, including the controversial undersea 
cable installed near Tierra del Mar. In 2015, the Oregonian newspaper 
reported that the data center complex received $30 million in tax 
breaks during the previous two years.

    For Meta, as well as Amazon, Google and Apple, Oregon offers a win, 
win, win.

    So who exactly is losing?

    The coastal ecosystem. During installation, it's standard practice 
to bury cables multiple feet into the seabed to avoid snags by fishing 
vessels. The most common burial method is plowing, during which a 
remotely operated vehicle cuts a ditch into the seafloor and inserts 
the cable into the trough. Another method, jetting, uses high-pressure 
fluids to liquefy sediments on the seafloor, easily slicing a clean 
line into the seabed in which the cable can burrow. Companies also use 
directional drilling to bore diagonally into the seabed from the shore. 
All of these methods squish or displace any worms, crabs, sea stars, 
urchins, anemones, corals or sponges living within the trenching path.

    Once installed, submarine cables settle into the seafloor 
ecosystem. In search of a hard substrate to call home, marine life will 
colonize the cable's exterior. After a few decades of service, cable 
owners have historically abandoned their lines in the ocean, a decision 
that is cheaper for companies and often results in less disturbance for 
colonizing species. Inert but not biodegradable, most dead cables will 
sit in the ocean indefinitely, hidden from the public who is usually 
none the wiser.

    The 2020 Facebook/Edge Cable Holdings abandonment prompted Oregon 
to pass a law in 2021 that instituted firmer planning and 
decommissioning regulations for new undersea cable projects. Still, the 
increasing scrutiny doesn't appear to be slowing the big tech 
companies. As Amazon builds its recently approved line to Guam and 
Singapore, the tech giant is also building another data center in 
Umatilla, a small town on the Columbia River.

    Data centers are no better for terrestrial environments than 
submarine cables are for marine. The buildings suck significant amounts 
of power from the grid. Oregon's renewable energies, like hydroelectric 
dams on the Columbia River, can't cover data centers' growing energy 
demands, meaning utility providers must tap into fossil fuels and 
increase their greenhouse gas emissions. Despite Oregon's efforts to 
decrease the state's carbon footprint, some regions are moving backward 
in the fight against climate change. Big tech companies, and their big 
buildings, are spurring that reversal.

    Across Oregon, communities and ecosystems are confronting the 
physical impacts of a world that runs on the internet--impacts that our 
regulatory systems have yet to reckon with.

                                 ______
                                 
                    U.S. Department of the Interior
                    
                       BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT

Right-of-Way Costs

    There are three different fees associated with obtaining a ROW on 
BLM-managed public land. Processing fees, Monitoring fees and Rents are 
adjusted annually based on inflation.

    No processing fee, monitoring fee or rent is required for:

     state or local agencies or instrumentalities thereof 
            (except municipal utilities and cooperatives whose 
            principal source of revenue is customer charges) where the 
            land will be used for governmental proposes and the land 
            resources will continue to serve the public interest; or

     road use agreements or reciprocal road agreements.

    Other exemptions, waivers or reductions of fees and/or rent may 
apply and can be explained during the pre-application meeting.
Processing Fee
    Applicants are required to reimburse the United States in advance 
for the cost of processing an application. The fees are based on the 
amount of time the

    BLM estimates it will take to process your application and issue a 
decision to grant or deny the application. We will determine the 
appropriate once you have submitted your complete application, and will 
notify you in writing of this fee. You must submit the appropriate 
payment before we can begin processing your application.

    There are six Processing Fee categories. The Processing Fee 
Schedule is available at BLM offices. Categories 1 through 4 are one-
time, non-refundable fees based on the number of federal work hours 
involved to process an application. Category 5 is for Master 
Agreements, which are negotiated with a single applicant for processing 
and monitoring multiple applications covering facilities within a 
specific geographic area. Any application that requires more than 50 
hours to process is a Category 6, which requires the applicant to 
reimburse the BLM for the full cost of processing an application.
Monitoring Fee

    The Monitoring fee reimburses the BLM for monitoring the 
construction, operation, maintenance and termination of the project, 
including protection and rehabilitation of the public lands involved. 
The fee is based on the estimated number of work hours necessary to 
monitor your grant.

    The BLM will determine the category for your project and notify you 
in writing of the appropriate fee. You must pay the Monitoring fee 
before we issue you a ROW grant.
Rent

    Rents are charged on an annual basis. The Linear Rent Schedule is 
adjusted annually based on changes to the Implicit Price Deflator Index 
(an inflation index), The Communication Uses Rental Schedule is 
adjusted annually based on changes to the Consumer Price Index, All 
Urban Consumers (CPI-U). Rents for linear and communication site ROWs 
on public land are established via two separate administrative 
schedules, based on land values in the project area and, in some cases, 
an appraisal. We will notify you of the initial rent amount due. You 
must pay rent for the initial rent period before we issue you a ROW 
grant.

                                 ______
                                 
                         NATIONAL PARK SERVICE

                                About Us

Right-of-Way Permit

    A right of way (ROW) is a permit issued by the National Park 
Service (NPS) that allows a utility to pass over, under, or through NPS 
property. The permit may be issued only pursuant to specific statutory 
authority and generally if there is no practicable alternative to the 
use of NPS lands, regardless of whether the equipment is serving the 
NPS and its visitors or crossing the park to reach other communities. 
You need a ROW permit any time you want to build or install a utility 
on NPS lands. Projects could include electrical transmission lines, 
telephone lines, canals, and sewer lines. Broadband equipment, such as 
telecommunication sites, microwave, and fiber optic, requires a ROW 
permit as well.

    If your request is approved, you will be issued a ROW permit. The 
permit does not give you an estate in fee, limited estate, or any 
property interest or ownership in the land. Your permit is not 
exclusive, and the park reserves the right to allow visitor use of the 
land where appropriate.

    The authorities authorizing the use of NPS lands for rights of way 
are found at 54 USC 100902 and 36 CFR Parts 1 and 14. Note that the NPS 
does not have the general authority to issue permits for roads or oil 
or gas pipelines.

Costs

    Application and processing fees: These charges reimburse the NPS 
for the administrative and other costs incurred in processing your 
request. Your application must be accompanied by the initial 
application charge. At that time you may request an estimate of further 
costs and a payment schedule. The park may decide to have an 
independent contractor conduct necessary environmental and historic 
compliance analysis. In that case you will be required to make payments 
directly to the contractor. Charges may also include the cost of 
monitoring the construction or installation of your utility should your 
request for a ROW permit be approved. These fees are non-refundable, 
since they reimburse the NPS for work performed.

    Monitoring fee: If your request for a ROW permit is granted, you 
will be responsible for reimbursing the NPS for monitoring your 
compliance with the terms and conditions of the ROW permit. This fee is 
non-refundable and may be paid annually or as arranged with the park 
staff.

    Use and occupancy fee: This charge is an annual rental based on the 
market value of the rights authorized and is generally established by 
an appraisal. The rent may be paid annually or on a schedule as 
specified in the permit.

    Exemptions to the requirements to pay any of the above fees may 
apply and should be discussed with the park superintendent at the pre-
application meeting.

                                 ______
                                 
                 OFFICE OF NATIONAL MARINE SANCTUARIES

Special Use Permits

    Section 310 of the National Marine Sanctuaries Act (16 U.S.C. 
Sec. 1441; NMSA) allows the Secretary of Commerce, delegated to the 
Office of National Marine Sanctuaries) to issue special use permits to 
authorize the conduct of specific activities in a sanctuary if such 
authorization is necessary (1) to establish conditions of access to and 
use of any sanctuary resource or (2) to promote public use and 
understanding of a sanctuary resource. Special use permits are 
generally issued for concessionaire-type activities and other 
commercial activities that require access to the sanctuary to achieve a 
desired goal.

Public notice

    The NMSA requires, among other things, the ONMS to provide 
``appropriate public notice before identifying any category of activity 
subject to a special use permit'' (see section 310(b) of the NMSA). To 
comply with this directive from Congress, the ONMS has issued Federal 
Register notices to describe the types of activities for which it can 
require the issuance of a special use permit (78 FR 25957(May 3, 2013); 
82 FR 42298 (Sept.7, 2017); 89 FR 48272 (June 6, 2024)). To qualify for 
a special use permit, an activity must be among those listed in these 
notices. The notices list the following activities:

  1.  The placement and recovery of objects associated with public or 
            private events on non-living substrate of the submerged 
            lands of any national marine sanctuary.

  2.  The placement and recovery of objects related to commercial 
            filming.

  3.  The continued presence of commercial submarine cables on or 
            within the submerged lands of any national marine sanctuary 
            (Note, 89 FR 66689 (https://www.federalregister.gov/
            documents/2024/08/16/2024-18099/notice-of-modification-to-
            the-special-use-permit-sup-category-for-the-continued-
            presence-of) [August 16, 2024] modified this SUP category 
            so that, for a two-year period, this SUP category does not 
            apply to commercial submarine cables in any new sanctuaries 
            designated after August 16, 2024).

  4.  The disposal of cremated human remains within or into any 
            national marine sanctuary.

  5.  Recreational diving near the USS Monitor.

  6.  Fireworks displays.

  7.  The operation of aircraft below the minimum altitude in 
            restricted zones of national marine sanctuaries.

  8.  The continued presence of a pipeline transporting seawater to or 
            from a desalination facility (applies only to Monterey Bay 
            National Marine Sanctuary).

  9.  The operation of tethered underwater mobile systems at shipwreck 
            sites within Lake Ontario National Marine Sanctuary

    If a proposed activity does not fall within the description of one 
of the types of activities for which ONMS has provided public notice, 
ONMS would need to publish a new Federal Register notice and solicit 
public comments on the use of special use permits for the type of 
activity proposed prior to issuing a permit.

Terms of special use permits

    The NMSA requires special use permits to contain four specific 
conditions. The NMSA requires that special use permits:

     Shall authorize the conduct of an activity only if that 
            activity is compatible with the purposes for which the 
            sanctuary is designated and with protection of sanctuary 
            resources;

     Shall not authorize the conduct of any activity for a 
            period of more than 5 years unless renewed by the 
            Secretary;

     Shall require that activities carried out under the permit 
            be conducted in a manner that does not destroy, cause the 
            loss of, or injure sanctuary resources; and
     Shall require the permittee to purchase and maintain 
            comprehensive general liability insurance, or post an 
            equivalent bond, against claims arising out of activities 
            conducted under the permit and to agree to hold the United 
            States harmless against such claims.

    As is the case with general permits, in addition to these 
statutorily-mandated conditions, the ONMS can place additional 
conditions on special use permits specific to the activity being 
permitted.

Permit fees

    The NMSA allows the ONMS to assess and collect fees for the conduct 
of any activity under a special use permit. If it is assessed, the 
amount of the fee is calculated by adding all of the following.

     The costs incurred, or expected to be incurred, by the 
            Secretary in issuing the permit;

     The costs incurred, or expected to be incurred, by the 
            Secretary as a direct result of the conduct of the activity 
            for which the permit is issued, including costs of 
            monitoring the conduct of the activity; and

     An amount that represents the fair market value of the use 
            of the sanctuary resource.

Application requirements

    Unless otherwise instructed, applicants for special use permits 
should submit a regular permit application form and comply with the 
``Instructions for Submitting Applications for NMS Permits and 
Authorizations.'' In addition, the NMSA requires the following for 
special use permits:

     Comprehensive liability insurance: Applicants will be 
            required to purchase and maintain comprehensive general 
            liability insurance, or to post an equivalent bond, against 
            claims arising out of activities conducted under the permit 
            and to agree to hold the United States harmless against 
            such claims. Applicants should show proof of such insurance 
            with the rest of the application materials.

     Annual financial report: Most permits require some form of 
            reporting. Special use permit recipients are also required 
            to submit financial reports on or before December 31 of 
            each year the permit is valid. These reports should detail 
            the activities conducted under the permit during the 
            reporting year and any revenues derived from those 
            activities.

                                 ______
                                 

                    Northern Chumash Tribal Council
                              Los Osos, CA

                                               January 21, 2025    

Hon. Bruce Westerman, Chairman
Hon. Jared Huffman, Ranking Member
House Natural Resources Committee
1324 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515

    Dear Chairman Westerman and Ranking Member Huffman:

    We write to express our opposition to legislative efforts under 
consideration by the House Natural Resources Committee, to amend the 
National Marine Sanctuary Act to prohibit requiring an authorization 
for the installation, operation, maintenance, repair, or recovery of 
undersea fiber optic cables in a national marine sanctuary if such 
activities have previously been authorized by a Federal or State 
agency.
    The National Marine Sanctuary Act exists to protect marine 
resources and the extraordinary scenic beauty, biodiversity, cultural 
and historical connections, and economic productivity of our most 
precious underwater treasures. It grants authority to the NOAA's Office 
of National Marine Sanctuaries to fulfill its mandate.
    In waiving all NOAA requirements for undersea fiber optic cables, 
this bill would weaken the authority of the agency charged with 
protecting and conserving special areas of the ocean and Great Lakes 
through the management of a network of National Marine Sanctuaries--
areas considered to be of irreplaceable national significance--from the 
permitting process.
    The passage of this legislation would not only weaken the National 
Marine Sanctuary Act but also set a dangerous precedent to eliminate 
NOAA's role in evaluating the impact of an industrial activity within a 
National Marine Sanctuary, undermining the ability to ensure the proper 
care and management of sanctuary resources.
    Keeping this authority within the hands of NOAA could also help 
each sanctuary continue educating the public about the marine 
environment and promoting responsible stewardship of these underwater 
treasures while allowing for compatible recreational and commercial 
activities.
    In short, we believe NOAA's Office of National Marine Sanctuaries 
needs to maintain a role in authorizing industrial activities within 
the boundaries of a National Marine Sanctuary to ensure alignment with 
and maintenance of its conservation mission.
    We appreciate your consideration.

            Sincerely,

                                        Violet Sage Walker,
                                                         Chairwoman

                                 [all]