[Senate Hearing 118-758]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 118-758
WATER RESOURCES DEVELOPMENT
ACT 2024: USACE WATER INFRASTRUCTURE
PROJECTS, PROGRAMS AND PRIORITIES
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
FEBRUARY 28, 2024
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
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U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
62-428 WASHINGTON : 2026
COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware, Chairman
SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia, Ranking Member
BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma
JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon PETE RICKETTS, Nebraska
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan ROGER WICKER, Mississippi
MARK KELLY, Arizona DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska
ALEX PADILLA, California LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina
JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania
Courtney Taylor, Democratic Staff Director
Adam Tomlinson, Republican Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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Page
FEBRUARY 28, 2024
OPENING STATEMENTS
Carper, Hon. Thomas R., U.S. Senator from the State of Delaware.. 1
Capito, Hon. Shelley Moore, U.S. Senator from the State of West
Virginia....................................................... 3
WITNESSES
Connor, Hon. Michael C., Assistant Secretary of the Army for
Civil Works.................................................... 6
Prepared statement........................................... 9
Responses to additional questions from:
Senator Capito........................................... 19
Senator Carper........................................... 21
Senator Whitehouse....................................... 22
Senator Fetterman........................................ 22
Senator Capito........................................... 22
Senator Mullin........................................... 23
Senator Sullivan......................................... 23
Spellmon, Lieutenant General Scott A., 55th Chief of Engineers
and Commanding General, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers........... 25
Prepared statement........................................... 27
Responses to additional questions from:
Senator Carper........................................... 32
Senator Ricketts......................................... 34
Senator Graham........................................... 35
WATER RESOURCES DEVELOPMENT ACT 2024: USACE WATER INFRASTRUCTURE
PROJECTS, PROGRAMS AND PRIORITIES
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WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 28, 2024
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Environment and Public Works,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:02 a.m. in
room 406, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Thomas R. Carper
(chairman of the committee) presiding.
Present: Senators Carper, Capito, Cardin, Whitehouse,
Merkley, Markey, Stabenow, Kelly, Padilla, Fetterman, Cramer,
Mullin, Ricketts, Boozman, Wicker, Sullivan.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS R. CARPER,
U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF DELAWARE
Senator Carper. Good morning, everyone. I am pleased to
call today's hearing to order and to welcome our distinguished
witnesses from the Army Corps of Engineers, Assistant Secretary
Connor and General Spellmon. Navy salutes Army, welcome. Thank
you for joining us, and thank you for your continued service to
our Nation.
For a decade, this committee has led the effort to pass
biennial Water Resources Development Act legislation, known as
WRDA, with overwhelming bipartisan support. Last Congress, the
Senate passed WRDA 2022, as you recall, by a vote of 93 to 1.
We do not see margins like that every day in the U.S. Senate.
They never see things like that in the U.S. House.
[Laughter.]
Senator Carper. I say that lovingly, as a former House
member.
Having said that, that is a pattern that we want to
continue to replicate: timely bipartisan reauthorization,
resulting in sound policies to address our Nation's critical
water resource needs in the face of increasingly powerful
storms, devastating floods and more intense and frequent
droughts. I am proud of the work done by all of our EPW
colleagues and by our staffs in making this goal a reality.
I am especially grateful to Ranking Member Capito for the
partnership we have forged with her and her talented team on
all things WRDA. When it comes to this committee, WRDA is a
shining example of the bipartisanship that is too often
overlooked on Capitol Hill these days.
This past fall, Senator Capito and I received, at our
request, more than 1,200 requests from our colleagues in the
Senate from north to south and east to west for consideration
in WRDA 2024. I believe that might set a new record. Since
then, we have been diligently reviewing these priorities with
the Corps, and we have identified some consistent themes.
First, communities are asking for Corps projects to be more
affordable. Second, non-Federal sponsors are seeking more
flexibility when working with the Corps. Third, communities are
asking for Corps projects to do more to address extreme weather
and climate change.
To many of us, these are all too familiar topics. That is
because in the past several reauthorizations, we have made
historic changes to Corps policy to address these very issues.
We have made cost shares more favorable for underserved and for
tribal communities. We have given the Corps authority to review
their contracting procedures. We have directed the Corps to
consider the impacts of climate change in just about everything
that you do.
One might ask, why are we still seeing these WRDA requests
in 2024, if we have already addressed these problems? Well,
while the last three WRDA bills have been transformative,
implementation of these laws is taking longer than expected, in
some cases a good deal longer. We need to better understand how
we can help the Corps implement these laws more expeditiously.
As many on this committee have heard me say, probably too
often, everything I do, I know I can do better. I think that is
true of all of us, even the Navy, even the Army. That same
principle applies here with respect to this legislation.
To be fair, the Corps has begun to make some meaningful
progress. Two weeks ago, I was pleased to learn that the Corps
announced a regulatory proposal to revise its Principles,
Requirements, and Guidelines. Historically, the Corps has
relied too much on an oversimplified cost to benefit ratio in
its decisionmaking process, which has sometimes undercut
crucial community and ecosystem needs.
This new regulatory proposal makes major strides to elevate
the best-available science throughout the Corps' decisionmaking
processes and it goes a long way toward building community
resilience to climate change . I hope to see that rulemaking
process move forward as swiftly as possible.
I do recognize that implementation of Congress' recent WRDA
bills, including the rulemaking for the Principles,
Requirements, and Guidelines takes time. The clock is ticking.
We are already feeling the acute impacts of climate change
across our Nation, from the drought in the West, to sea level
rise on the Gulf Coast, to floods from snowpack melt in the
Midwest.
Without intervention, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric
Administration estimates that the threat of sea level rise is
going to accelerate, not diminish, in the next 30 years.
According to the U.S. Census Bureau, approximately 40 percent
of the U.S. population lives within 100 miles of a coastline.
That means more than 130 million people who live in coastal
counties, including all of Delaware, much of Maryland,
Virginia, the Carolinas, all the way down to Florida, and
States to the north and south of us, frankly, just about
everybody on this committee is included in those States, are
included in the threats posed by rising sea levels.
We need to continue working with partners like the Corps in
addressing the impacts of climate change.
While the slow progress we have seen from the Corps on this
front is better than no progress, it is my hope that today's
discussion will be an opportunity for us to learn more about
what has caused the delays in WRDA implementation, and how we
can make sure that these historic bills have the transformative
impact that Congress intends. I think you want it as well.
Senator Capito and I are in agreement that WRDA 2024 will
focus on individual project solutions. I will say that again:
Senator Capito and our teams are in agreement that WRDA 2024
will focus on individual project solutions, giving the Corps
the ability to dedicate more time and resources to fully
implement the changes we have already made in past bills.
General Spellmon and Secretary Connor, we look forward to
hearing your testimony and insights today. We always look
forward to hearing your testimony and to working with you and
your team.
Thank you for joining us. Thanks as well to the men and
women you lead today. Some are in the room; most are not. They
are spread out across the Country.
Before your testimony, though, I want to turn it over to
our Ranking Member, Senator Capito, for any comments she would
like to make. Senator Capito, welcome.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO,
U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA
Senator Capito. Thank you, Chairman Carper, thanks for
having the meeting. We are working well, I think, toward
keeping the record of reauthorizing WRDA every 2 years.
Secretary Connor and General Spellmon, wonderful to have
you with us here today. You might recall the last time you both
were before the Committee, we discussed a project that is
incredibly exciting for my home State of West Virginia, and
that is the Nucor steel plant in Mason County. Once the plant
begins commercial operations it will employ hundreds of full-
time employees in an area where jobs are desperately needed.
I want to take a moment to thank you, your staffs, and the
team at the Huntington District for your assistance and
personal attention to this project. I am pleased to say that
Nucor broke ground on the site last October. This would not
have been possible without your support and hard work.
I will say just for the audience listening and you all
probably know this, at the groundbreaking a Guinness Book of
World Records was broken. It was the largest groundbreaking
ever, with 545 shovels. Look it up in your Guinness book. It
was very exciting for the community. Every high school senior
was there with a shovel.
Since 2014, the committee has kept its biennial schedule of
passing bipartisan legislation that authorizes water resources
studies and projects. WRDA, as we know it, also sets national
policies for our Civil Works Program at the U.S. Army Corps of
Engineers. I look forward to continuing that track record, as I
stated earlier.
Last year, Chairman Carper and I, and he mentioned this in
his opening statement, sent a letter to our Senate colleagues
collecting their requests for WRDA 2024. I must say WRDA 2024
is becoming very popular. I am pleased to say that we received
a significant number of requests, many more than last time,
which demonstrates the strong interest but also the necessity
of this legislation.
As the Chairman and I have both said repeatedly, WRDA 2024
will not be a policy-heavy bill. Instead, the legislation will
focus on authorizing new or modifying existing studies and
projects, as well as making much-needed technical changes to
prior provisions in order to better reflect the intent of
Congress.
This limited scope will enable the Corps to focus its
energy and resources on fully implementing prior WRDA
provisions, which will ensure that the agency continues to be
responsive to water resource needs.
As I have previously stated, it is important that any WRDA
bill supports the timely and efficient delivery of water
resources projects, while continuing to meet national
priorities. Flexibility, we have heard this over and over
again, is key to ensuring that the Corps can identify and carry
out solutions that are tailored to needs of each individual
community.
We must also continue to preserve the role of non-Federal
sponsors in this project and maintain the Corps' focus on its
primary mission of navigation, flood and coastal storm risk
management, and ecosystem restoration.
I would like to extend my appreciation to the staff at the
Corps, as the Chairman stated, some of them here and many of
them all across the Country, for their engagement with the
Committee as we oversee the implementation of WRDA 2022 and
prior WRDAs.
However, I am concerned about the Corps' fulfillment of
some of these provisions. As Ranking Member, one of my two
priorities across the committee's jurisdiction is improving the
environmental review and permitting processes for all types of
infrastructure projects, while not sacrificing important
environmental provisions.
These processes need to move forward in a timely and
predictable manner so that communities can realize the benefits
of these projects for a whole lot of reasons.
I am proud that WRDA 2022 contained a provision that
furthers this goal, which is NEP, National Environmental Policy
Act, reporting. Unfortunately, more than a year after
enactment, this important provision is still not implemented.
Earlier this month, the Corps informed the Committee that
it will need $3 million to set up the reporting system and
another system which WRDA 2014, that is 10 years ago, also
needs another $2.5 million a year to maintain these systems.
Recent WRDAs have also included provisions designed to reduce
the financial burden on non-Federal sponsors in economically
disadvantaged communities. Much of my home State of West
Virginia qualifies as economically disadvantaged and could
benefit from these provisions.
Regrettably, some of these provisions have not been fully
implemented, or even begun, which means critical projects are
not moving forward. It was clear from my Senate colleagues'
requests that many of the provisions in prior WRDAs are also
facing delays and obstacles.
This hearing in part is part of the Committee's ongoing
oversight of the Corps and the agency's efforts to carry out
these laws. We will closely examine whether or not the Corps
has made the implementation of certain provisions needlessly
more complicated than Congress intended them to be. I look
forward to discussing all of these issues in more detail with
our witnesses.
Today, we will also learn about the Corps' priorities for
WRDA 2024. I will be particularly interested in which
priorities require legislative language and which can be
carried out through existing authorities.
Secretary Connor and General Spellmon, again, thank you for
your continued commitment to transparency and accountability,
and accessibility, I need to add that, as well as your insights
into these matters.
I also want to acknowledge and thank the staff across the
Corps enterprise for their efforts to provide the Committee
with technical assistance on the various WRDA requests that we
received from our Senate colleagues. The technical assistance
is a vital part of our legislative process and we greatly
appreciate the responses.
The work of the Corps has and will continue to make a
difference in communities all across the Country, and
particularly in my State.
I would like to take a moment of personal privilege here to
acknowledge a sad thing for our committee, certainly for my
side of the aisle, but also for the chairman's as well. One of
my great staff members, Travis Cone, who is my deputy staff
director, this is his last meeting, his last week. He is easily
identifiable because he is the one with the red hair and red
beard who is sitting right behind me.
Travis has served on my staff for 7 years, and leads the
environment team on the committee's Republican staff. He will
be leaving the committee later this week. He will really be
missed, not only as a great talent, but also as a good friend
to so many. His expertise and dedication have contributed to a
number of legislative successes, especially the committee's
historic drinking water legislation.
Travis, I want to thank you for your outstanding work for
me. The only big negative about Travis, now, I am a Duke Blue
Devil, and he is a Kentucky Wildcat. We have had a few problems
with that.
[Laughter.]
Senator Capito. I can declare which blue I think is
superior, but we do not get into it much.
I would like to have a round of applause for Travis.
[Applause.]
Senator Carper. I am Tom Carper, and I approve that
message.
[Laughter.]
Senator Carper. Travis, we are going to miss you, buddy.
Good luck, fair winds and following seas.
As some of you know, I go back and forth on the train. I
live in Delaware and go back and forth on the train a lot.
People are very kind to me, ever since I announced I wasn't
going to run for re-election, people are so kind, and they ask
me, how is your retirement going, and I say, well, I am not
retired yet.
I do not retire until high noon on January 3d, 2025. I am
still in the saddle, and there is plenty to do. All the
Senators who are here today and those who are not, we have a
lot on our plates to work on to keep us busy until that date.
It is easy to introduce legislation. It is easy to
introduce bipartisan legislation. It is fairly easy to get, in
this committee, and eventually to move from hearings to bring
the legislation to the floor and maybe passing it in the Senate
and maybe finding companion legislation in the House and
finding a way to compromise, and the President to sign into
law. That is regular order. We are pretty good at regular
order; we are really good at it in this committee.
Another big part of our job is implementation. Between now
and high noon January 3d, 2025, we are going to be focused as
well on implementation, and we should be. I look forward to
doing that.
Now, I think I mentioned, I will say this again, Senator
Capito and our agreement that WRDA 2024 will focus on
individual project solutions, giving the Corps the ability to
dedicate more time and resources to fully implement the changes
we have already made in past bills. Again to our witnesses
today, we look forward to hearing your testimony and look
forward to working with you toward that end.
Now, let's turn to our witnesses. Assistant Secretary
Connor has served in a variety of positions, I read this last
night, and it is very impressive, a variety of positions in the
Federal Government focusing on natural and water resources
throughout much of your career. He was confirmed as the
Assistant Secretary of the Army in 2021, in November as I
recall. He advises the Secretary of the Army on all matters
that pertain to the Army's Civil Works program.
With that having been said, Secretary Connor, you are
recognized for your statement. Welcome, and thank you.
STATEMENT OF HON. MICHAEL C. CONNOR, ASSISTANT
SECRETARY OF THE ARMY FOR CIVIL WORKS
Mr. Connor. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, Ranking
Member Capito, and distinguished members. I very much
appreciate the opportunity to discuss the Army's priorities for
WRDA 2024. I very much appreciate the concept of a policy-light
WRDA 2024, because we do need to catch up and implement the
very good provisions that you have enacted.
My written statement has been submitted for the record, and
identifies actions to implement the last two WRDAs, as well as
priorities for the Army Corps of Engineers Civil Works Program.
The testimony speaks for itself, so I will use my time to
quickly describe a visit I made to Hawaii last week, which I
think is relevant to a number of the issues we are going to
discuss today.
My trip included reviewing a range of Civil Works missions
being carried out in Hawaii, including disaster response, flood
risk management, beneficial use of dredged material, and
aquatic ecosystem restoration, all of which involved
economically disadvantaged communities.
A few takeaways. Most significant, the Army Corps of
Engineers continues to be at its best when called upon to work
with FEMA and other agencies to respond to emergencies and
disaster situations. In Maui, where the communities of Lahaina
and Kula were devastated by wildfire, the Corps, using tools
and new direction provided in recent WRDAs, worked hard to
understand cultural sensitivities and is now gaining trust with
the Native Hawaiian community to more effectively carry out its
debris removal mission, which will set the stage for rebuilding
on the 1,600-plus properties damaged or devastated by the
wildfires.
In addition, using local contractors and strong
collaboration with local authorities, it moved quickly with
remarkable focus and effort to carry out its responsibilities
for critical infrastructure to construct, I have to tell you
from a first-hand tour, a very impressive elementary school in
95 days, completed just last week to allow the local school
district in Lahaina to return elementary school age children in
this impacted community to some semblance of normalcy with
classes starting in the new facility on April 1st.
Senator Carper. What grade levels did that include?
Mr. Connor. It is an elementary school, so it is K through
6.
Senator Carper. All right, thanks.
Mr. Connor. There are other response actions being carried
out, and much more work to be done overall, but the bottom line
is that the Corps continues to evolve and modernize how it
works with different communities, which in Maui is resulting in
our team becoming integrated within the community and may
ultimately lead to a transition from response to rebuilding and
thus improving the resilience of Maui, using a number of tools
and authorities provided in recent WRDAs.
Second, like elsewhere, the Corps is carrying out an
increasing Civil Works workload in Hawaii, including a
traditional large-scale flood risk project in Oahu. The Ala Wai
project is as complicated as any flood risk management project
in the Corps' portfolio, particularly where we are trying to
retrofit modern flood risk management strategies into a highly
developed area with little open and undeveloped land to work
with.
These large, complicated projects with significant public
interest and involvement and complex hydrology do not
necessarily lend themselves to a standard 3x3x3 feasibility
study, and we appreciate the dialog with committee staff about
how that process may need to evolve, particularly with new
challenges and new tools such as Section 8106 of WRDA 2022.
Finally, I would note that I toured and met with local
sponsors involved in two smaller CAP projects and a beneficial
use of dredged material pilot. These types of projects are of
increasing importance as they represent a scale that can yield
good results with affordable levels of investment for non-
Federal sponsors. They also represent innovations for
communities trying to maximize multiple benefits in each and
every project no matter the size.
Moreover, in each of those situations, the sponsors
stressed the incredible need for these projects given the
increasing risks from a more dynamic climate, creating larger
precipitation events as well as stronger storm surge and sea
level rise. While small, each of these projects have challenges
that the Army Corps is working through as anticipated with
pilots and new authorities that are critical to deliver on the
need and the expectations of these respective communities.
My overall point is that the work of this committee has
been incredibly important in continuing to improve how the
Corps can expand its reach to a broader set of communities,
continue to innovate and develop unique new engineering
solutions to new challenges. The Chief and I appreciate the
ongoing opportunity to work closely with the committee in using
these new authorities and the substantial resources now in hand
through the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, disaster
supplementals and annual appropriations to advance the
President's Investing in America agenda and the vision for an
increasingly responsive Army Civil Works Program.
Looking forward, please know that we will continue to work
closely with you and your staff in developing the next WRDA to
ensure we have the tools, processes, and resources in place to
one, better assess risks and innovate our approach to
effectively address those risks, two, improve our processes to
appropriately and equitably serve a broader set of communities,
and three, develop projects for consideration by Congress that
provide multiple benefits, have community acceptance, and
include well-developed cost estimates.
Thanks for the time, and I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Connor follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Carper. Thank you, Secretary Connor.
Now, to introduce General Spellmon, who has been here many
times in the past. It is good to see you again.
I understand you have been serving as the 55th Chief of
Engineers and the Commanding General of the Army Corps of
Engineers since September 2020. Is that right?
General Spellmon. Yes, sir.
Senator Carper. Before that, you served at the Deputy
Commanding General for Civil and Emergency Operations. You are
no stranger to us, and no stranger to the Corps Civil Works
Program that is so important for this committee. We are
grateful for your service and look forward to hearing from you
today.
Please begin your statement. Thank you.
STATEMENT OF LIEUTENANT GENERAL SCOTT A. SPELLMON, 55TH CHIEF
OF ENGINEERS AND COMMANDING GENERAL, U.S. ARMY CORPS OF
ENGINEERS
General Spellmon. Chairman Carper, Ranking Member Capito,
and distinguished members of the committee, I am honored to
testify before you today and thank you for the opportunity to
discuss current implementation of recent Water Resource
Development Acts, as well as future water resource legislation.
Before I do that, I do want to start out with a sincere
thank-you. I have come before this committee several times over
the past 6 years, and I have always shared that these are
historic times for the Army Corps of Engineers. That is
probably starting to sound rote to the committee members by
now.
I keep repeating that phrase because they seem to get more
historic as every week and month goes by for us. The Secretary
just mentioned Maui, and I appreciate his kind words there.
That is very hard and rewarding work for the team.
Our programs in disaster response, military construction
for the Army and Air Force, the work we are doing for the
Veterans Administration, the work we are doing for the
combatant commanders in 110 countries around the globe, and
some of our teams building the very difficult projects in
combat zones today, and certainly the Civil Works Program here
at home, we are seeing record levels of appropriation that we
have not experienced in our 249-year history.
It is that record level of investment that has brought new
workload challenges to my agency, some that we have just not
encountered previously. I know we are going to talk about some
of those challenges today. They are challenges that we are
committed to working through. An opening thank-you to the
members of the committee and all the staff members sitting
behind you who are helping us work our way through this massive
workload.
Back to WRDA. In WRDA 2022, Congress authorized 25 new
construction projects, 94 new feasibility studies, and 131 new
environmental infrastructure projects. This legislation
continued a trend of advancing our mission by enabling critical
policy transformations to address the changing needs of the
Nation's water resource infrastructure.
That legislation provided the Corps flexibility to design
projects that respond to a wider suite of impacts associated
with climate change, addressing the needs of our small, rural,
and disadvantaged communities, as well as supporting our tribal
partners with enhanced flexibilities.
One of our priorities, the Secretary and I, has been to
expand the breadth of our research and development
capabilities. I want to thank this committee again for the
authorization of a separate R&D account for the Corps in WRDA
2022, an R&D account like many other Federal agencies enjoy.
We have been working hard to enhance our knowledge in new
and innovative technologies such as natural and nature-based
solutions, crowd source bathymetry, achieving a better
understanding of the sources and controls for challenges like
sea level rise and harmful algal blooms, as well as many, many
other initiatives. These R&D efforts bring new, powerful
capabilities to the Corps and also enhance the Army's overall
modernization efforts.
I take very seriously our responsibility to regulate the
development of Waters of the United States, including wetlands.
Today in our regulatory program we employ 1,300 staff members.
In Fiscal Year 2023, these professionals processed 43,235
Section 404 and Section 10 permits. We rendered just over
31,000 of those permits within our on-time standards, or 70
percent.
While that figure is significant, we know it is not good
enough. We are on a slightly better track with the 15,000-plus
permits that we have processed to date this fiscal year, and we
know we have more work to do.
We continue to seek ways to improve our timeliness with
continued investments in our regulatory viewer, which is in the
field now, and our regulatory request system which will go
fully online at the end of March. These new tools are already
helping our applicants better understand permitting
requirements and assisting our regulators' analyses so they can
make more timely and efficient decisions in the field.
As mentioned, we remain laser-focused on executing record
levels of regular and supplemental emergency funding that we
have received over the past 5 years. In Fiscal Year 2023, the
Corps obligated $40.7 billion, $18 billion in the Civil Works
Program, and this is the second highest program delivery again
in our 249-year history.
This progress could not have happened without the tools and
authorities given to us by this committee and by Congress. I
believe we have good momentum in Fiscal Year 2024.
I will conclude by saying we do not accomplish any of this
on our own. Delivering successful Civil Works projects is a
shared responsibility, it is a team sport. I look forward to
continuing our great collaboration as we face the challenges of
today and tomorrow.
Thank you again, Chairman Carper, and Ranking Member
Capito. We look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of General Spellmon follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Carper. Thank you both for your testimony. I am
going to lead off then turn to Senator Capito.
As I mentioned a few minutes ago, we need to consider the
status of implementing past WRDA bills while the committee
develops WRDA 2024. Unfortunately, implementation is taking
longer, in some cases much longer than Congress expected,
sometimes spanning multiple administrations.
Of the more than 1,200 requests this committee received for
the 2024 WRDA legislation, roughly half relate back to
provisions from prior WRDAs that have not been fully
implemented. There are multiple examples of provisions where
implementation has not occurred, and that means congressional
direction has been ignored. This includes Federal interest
determination studies for small, rural, and disadvantaged
communities, changes to the Harbor Maintenance Trust Fund to
support expanded uses, and numerous provisions supporting the
use of natural infrastructure to make projects more resilient
to climate change, among others.
A question, if I could. We will start, General Spellmon,
with you, then with the Secretary. Both of you testified before
this committee that WRDA implementation is a top priority. What
is the current process for implementing WRDA legislation after
passage? In your view, what is the cause for delays in
implementing too many of the prior WRDA provisions? General?
General Spellmon. Yes, sir, thank you for the question.
First of all, I concur with you; there are delays. I would
disagree with the characterization that these provisions are
being ignored.
The two primary causes for the delays, from my seat, first
is one of timing. WRDA 2022 passed in December 2022. I had
already turned in my budget recommendation for Fiscal Year 2024
to the Secretary 90 days prior, in September of that year.
When a WRDA bill passes in December, this next WRDA bill,
it will be Fiscal Year 2026 before I can work those provisions
into our budget.
The second challenge is making it all fit within a budget
top line. Things like investigations, environmental
infrastructure, ecosystem restoration, a lot of great
provisions, but making all of that fit into a budget top line
has been incredibly challenging for us. People like me just
have to make a better recommendation to the Secretary when we
take our budget recommendations forward.
I would tell you that we are using other sources of funds,
where they are needed. I will give you a few examples: 8113,
Columbia River Tribal Housing, we are moving out with funding
that we received in great support from the three tribes out
there, moving forward with that program. And 8116, Workforce
Planning, not relying on Civil Works Funds. We received $9
million in DOD to enable better retention and recruitment
initiatives, and we are leading DOD in that effort.
Sir, you helped me personally on 8125, the ability to sign
warrant officers and NCOs to our Civil Works projects. The
Secretary is going to give us implementation guidance, how we
will fund that. Right now, we have the Army's agreement until
they fund them out of OMA funds. We have our first three Civil
Works warrant officers on hydroelectric plants out in the
Pacific Northwest today.
On 8141, the Harmful Algal Bloom Reporting, I sent my
surgeon to Lake Okeechobee, Florida, that system is already in
place. On 8303, we are moving our aggressively on FIRO for four
projects out in California and Washington State. We are ready
for more. Then 8351, another example of sturgeon habitat
projects on the Missouri River, using existing funds to get
those designs in. We want to get those in the river.
Again, you said it, sir, we are not perfect. There is a lot
of work we can continue to do to get better. We will keep
pressing. We are committed to it.
Senator Carper. Good. Before I ask the Secretary to also
share some thoughts as to the cause for delays in implementing
the prior WRDA provisions, I would note that some of the delays
we are talking about do not just date back to WRDA 2022, they
date back as far as 2007, which is just not acceptable.
Secretary Connor, your thoughts, if you will, be fairly
brief, but for the causes of delays in implementing prior WRDA
provisions.
Mr. Connor. Yes, Mr. Chairman, thanks for the opportunity.
Notwithstanding the distance between us, I can assure you, I
subscribe completely to his comments. We talk about this on a
daily and weekly basis and work very closely together. I
endorse everything General Spellmon just said.
I have a couple of other quick thoughts for you. When we
have control of our own destiny with respect to implementing
guidance to move forward with WRDA provisions, we have done so
and we try to do so expeditiously. Once again, we could
improve, absolutely.
I think we have done 31 of 35 from WRDA 2020, we have done
6 of the 12 guidance needs with respect to WRDA 2022. It is
when we kind of move outside that area and have to go through
something that is deemed significant guidance, Federal world
and the public too, to move forward and fully implement.
A couple of examples from WRDA 2020. We defined
economically disadvantaged communities, we had to go through
significant guidance, notice and comment to do that. We
completed that. Then we moved forward to try and use that
definition to implement two pilot projects that you all
authorized, which were 118, flood investigations at 100 percent
Federal cost, and 165, CAP projects.
We are moving forward with 165 and I hope can make
announcements here in the next month or so. With 118, that was
deemed significant guidance even after we already did
significant guidance on the definition of economically
disadvantaged communities.
I am in a delay situation because of the processes that we
set up. I didn't think that was significant. We argued against
that; we lost. These are some of the processes we have to deal
with, and we need to move more expeditiously through them.
The other thing I would say is, quite frankly, we may have
relied too much on work plans to provide us resources. In this
era, we do not even know right now what 2024 looks like. We
have no work plan, we have no sense of whether there will be an
appropriations bill, whether we will have a continuing
resolution. This impacts our ability to move forward.
Then as General Spellmon noted, in our budget cycle, we are
always going to be 18 months to 24 months behind any new
authorizations appropriations. I probably went on a little too
long, but thanks for the opportunity.
Senator Carper. Thanks for going a little too long.
Senator Capito?
Senator Capito. Thank you. I would like to go right to the
two provisions that I mentioned in my opening statement.
Secretary Connor, WRDA 2022 contained a provision that requires
the Corps to track and provide an annual report to Congress on
the timelines for completing environmental reviews. It seems to
me you would have that information anyway. You have come back
now, estimated that a considerable amount of funding is going
to be needed to implement this provision.
My understanding is that Corps districts and divisions
already utilize software that allows them to track and upward
report key activities. What is the status of that, and can I
have your commitment that your staff will work with mine to
identify a path forward, so we can effectively implement this
provision?
Mr. Connor. You absolutely have my commitment to work
through it. There is a quicker way that we can get the relevant
information up and available for the public, even if we move
forward through data bases. I am happy to do that and look for
alternative means. We want to be transparent; we want to get
that information out.
The status of implementation, I do not know if the Chief
has other information on this particular area.
General Spellmon. Yes, ma'am, this is Section 8134 about
NEPA reporting. I think there is a disconnect between our teams
on what the requirements are. I think that just having a
session on this, unfortunately, it has taken this long to get
this conversation, we believe we are being asked to report on
150 or so feasibility studies, and how they are working their
way through 40 different environmental laws and regulations,
and then have a public-facing website for that. If it is
something less, that is a conversation we should have so we can
get moving.
Senator Capito. Are you suggesting a meeting between our
teams and your teams, is that the teams we are talking about?
General Spellmon. Yes, ma'am, our staffs, so we better
understand the intent of that particular----
Senator Capito. Well, this has been 2 years in the making
here, so we probably should have had those called to our
attention. Isn't this what you are asking for, another $3
million to implement this particular provision? Correct?
General Spellmon. Ma'am, if that is the requirement, to
report on compliance with 40 environmental laws and regulations
for those 150 studies and make it public facing, yes. We would
need resources.
Senator Capito. Okay, so let me just ask a simple question.
I am sure you have in your work plans or districts or whatever,
they have steps and implementation steps, certainly they have
some sort of flow chart that shows where they are. Is it the
public-facing part of it that is causing the delay?
General Spellmon. I believe combining all that across 42
districts into one central data base would be the requirement,
as we understand it.
Senator Capito. Okay. Let's go to the economically
disadvantaged communities and the CAP. You mentioned the CAP
projects that are delayed. These are projects that need
feasibility studies, Federal interest determinations.
I know that you have to use rulemaking. You kept referring
to they, we, this, on the guidance thing. If someone is
actually watching this and trying to figure out who is telling
him what to do, who is that?
Mr. Connor. I am going to be very judicious here.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Connor. Let's take 165. Fortunately, we were able to
move forward and move through a notice and comment. We did go
through an environmental assessment, we did make notice of
funding available, and we took in applications from the public.
Now we are in the last throes of evaluating that and moving
forward. Once again, we are more in control.
With respect to 118, the pilot projects for economically
disadvantaged communities, first we had to go through the
guidance process to define economically disadvantaged
communities. That took like a year and a half.
Senator Capito. Right.
Mr. Connor. Then, when we go through the process, when we
think it might be significant or fall into that, we make our
case as to why it is or why we think it is not.
Senator Capito. Who are you making your case to?
Mr. Connor. That is initially to the Department of Defense,
we have to get cleared, our proposed guidance cleared through
DOD, then it goes to OIRA within the White House. There are two
steps in that process which complicate things from the time
perspective, and complicates things from people having
different views than I do with respect to the significance of
any particular action.
Those are the specific steps.
Senator Capito. Anybody listening says, that is bureaucracy
with a capital B.
Let me ask you, on the 165 projects, when do you think
those will come out? You said shortly. What is shortly?
Mr. Connor. I am proposing to make those decisions in the
next couple of weeks, then we have to get that cleared to the
Administration process. I am hoping, given the urgency, the
need, and the fact that this is pretty straightforward stuff,
that we can move out in end of March, end of April timeframe.
Senator Capito. Okay. The Fiscal Responsibility Act
contained various amendments to NEPA intended to improve the
environmental process for all types of projects, including
water resource projects. In prior WRDAs, Congress has provided
the Corps with specific authorities to improve this process.
Can you describe what actions the Corps has taken to ensure
that the agency is compliant with these new statutory
requirements? Have you identified any additions? I do not know
who would be best to answer this question. General?
General Spellmon. Yes, ma'am. We certainly have taken
advantage of the $160 million in bill funding for our
regulatory teams to help us with much of this environmental
work. No one wants to get through NEPA within 2 years more than
the Army Corps of Engineers.
Unfortunately, this is very litigious on a number of
projects. We are not given the easy ones, and we are asked for
a lot of decimal points in our analysis: social cost of carbon,
greenhouse gas emissions, multiple options in each one of
these. That level of effort simply takes time.
Senator Capito. Is the social cost of carbon a statutory
part of NEPA?
General Spellmon. Ma'am, we could pick up a pipeline, and a
typical analysis would be, Okay, what is the social cost of
carbon and greenhouse gas emissions for moving that product
through a pipe. Then we will be asked to do the same, to
compare that for the trucks that would haul those fossil fuels
to market.
Senator Capito. I guess what I am asking, is that a
statutory part, or is that just what the Administration is
telling you to do?
General Spellmon. It is part of the NEPA regulations to do
that.
Senator Capito. The CEQ came back with, right?
General Spellmon. Right.
Senator Capito. Which just elongates the projects, makes
them more expensive, and in some ways, they are not getting
done.
Mr. Connor. I understand your point, and it is complicated
to figure out what lifecycle we are looking at with respect to
greenhouse gases. We are working through that right now. Once
we get that, then I think the social cost of carbon aspect of
it is actually pretty straightforward to move forward.
As General Spellmon, we are fully committed to working
through NEPA to using EAs as much as we can as opposed to full
EISs. The reality is when we get into certain projects, and
Senator Cramer is very familiar with one and would like me to
move much quicker, we get 200,000 comments, 30,000 substantive
comments, these are incredibly complicated. I am talking about
Dakota Access. We have to work through that to ensure that
hopefully it is a longer process, and that is provided for with
limited exceptions, even with the Debt Limitation Act. We have
to do it to make sure we can survive any litigation, so we can
make our decisions stick.
Senator Capito. Thank you.
Senator Carper. Thank you, Senator Capito. Senator Cramer?
Senator Cramer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Ranking Member
Capito. I am tempted to go right into DAPL, the Dakota Access
Pipeline, but since this is a WRDA hearing, we will start
there, and maybe we will get to DAPL.
First of all, thank you to both of you. I do not know that
we say it often enough. You are both generous with your time
and your talent and you are always available to us
collectively, and more impressively, Mr. Chairman, to each of
us individually. We are grateful for that; I am grateful for
that. Thank you.
I might as well get to everybody's favorite topic in the
world, General, and that would be the Snake Creek Embankment,
of course. You and I have not talked for so long I feel like
this is the first time I am getting caught up.
As you know, from what I am hearing out of Omaha, the sort
of dealing with the approach to fixing Snake Creek, I am
getting a little concerned. They are committed to removing the
43-foot difference at this time. What about the structure? What
can you tell me about actually fixing the structural problems?
That has me a little nervous.
General Spellmon. Yes, sir, you are correct, the water
control manual has been updated, and the 43-foot head
differential has been removed. Just for everyone, this is an
embankment that was designed to hold 54 feet of water. It holds
less than that, 43. We are about 11 feet off.
Sir, we are wrapping up the dam safety modification study.
I want to take this out of the dam safety realm and put it into
drought resiliency. I have directed the Omaha District to come
back with two structural solutions, seepage berms and an
embankment.
If we receive a 2024 appropriation, we will take $500,000
of dam safety wedge funds and we will do 30 percent designs on
both of those structural solutions to restore the full
capability of that embankment, and we will bring those to the
Administration and to Congress for their consideration.
Senator Cramer. Thank you very much for the update. Just
for people's knowledge, what this does is it allows the moving
of Missouri River water to over 50 percent of North Dakota's
population. I always say we do not have a water problem in
North Dakota, we have a water distribution problem.
Anyway, this is an important part of that infrastructure.
Thank you for that update.
Assistant Secretary Connor, in WRDA 2022, we included some
language established in this Western Water Cooperative
Committee that allows the western States like North Dakota this
opportunity to bring issues directly to the Corps. I am
wondering what the status of establishing that is. I have been
hearing from some of the States, including mine, that there has
been a lot of activity.
Has it been established? DO you know what the status is of
establishing the committee?
Mr. Connor. The process for establishing that committee is
to get a Federal Advisory Committee Charter through the
Department of Defense. I believe that has been completed on
this one to designate a Federal officer, provide the correct
training. We have done that.
We have teed up the actions necessary to move forward with
the committee, and then we need appropriations, or budgeted
resources, one or the other, to move forward with the activity
because this one in particular is going to be fairly expensive.
We are paying for the travel, the logistics of getting folks
together with respect to that.
Once again, we are going to lag on any budget resources
with respect to post-WRDA authorization before, or we can use
work plan, neither one which we have had the opportunity to
move forward with. We are teed up, ready to go, but we do need
the resources to implement.
Senator Cramer. I hesitate to start this conversation
openly. Maybe you and I have talked about this before. Is there
no way for States to absorb some of that cost, since they are
the ones asking for this access? Near as I can tell, most
States in the west have a better financial standing than the
Federal Government does.
I know I am probably blowing everybody's mind here with
some of this. Isn't there a way to do that, to share some of
that cost burden with the States?
Mr. Connor. There probably is. When we have some resources
available to start this activity up, it likely will not be
sufficient to call everything that has been authorized with
respect to those actions. We can go to the States at that point
in time and say, we need some help here so that we can do the
core part of those activities, and you have to help with the
rest of it. I think that happens on every project that we do as
well as probably with respect to standing up the committee.
Senator Cramer. Since you brought up DAPL, and I was going
to anyway, just so you know. As you know, we are in week three
of the Federal Tort Claims trial in North Dakota, trying to get
some money from the Federal Government to pay for the damages
and the policing of the violent protests that the Corps
facilitated on Corps land. It is sort of top of mind right now
in North Dakota.
That brings me to the EIS issue, because this is a pipeline
that has been safely moving hundreds of thousands of barrels of
oil a day to market for several years now, and we still do not
have the EIS. It has been delayed multiple times.
You spoke a little while ago about what I would call an
enduring solution, something that is durable. What is the
status of the final EIS?
Mr. Connor. We issued the draft EIS last fall. I think we
opened up with a 45-day comment period, extended it once. That
is my reference to receiving 200,000 comments, 30,000 of which
are unique and substantive that we have to refer to.
We are still on track for moving forward as quickly as we
can to be in a position to issue a final EIS this fall with a
record of decision somewhere in the 30 to 60 day timeframe
after that. We are proceeding.
I understand the frustration with how long it has taken. It
is an example, though, of when we try and take shortcuts, and
we do an environmental assessment as opposed to an EIS and then
we get litigation, and we get setbacks and the overall long-
term structure is that.
We are trying to think this through, do it right, respond,
do correct tribal consultation, integrate their concerns and
our responses into the process, and get this product done so it
can stand the test of time.
Senator Cramer. My wife often says haste makes waste to me,
for whatever it is worth.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Carper. Thanks for those words of wisdom from your
wife.
[Laughter.]
Senator Carper. Our next colleague who is going to be
recognized is Senator Padilla, and after that, Senator Wicker.
Then we will see who else shows up. Senator Padilla, welcome.
Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to
begin by associating myself with Senator Cramer's remarks that
yes, our wives are full of wisdom.
[Laughter.]
Senator Padilla. Mr. Chairman, in the last 5 years, more
than 100 million gallons of toxic sewage, garbage and other
pollution have flowed over the United States-Mexico border,
resulting in a public health and environmental crisis for
southern California coastal communities.
This is not a new problem, unfortunately. For decades, the
underserved communities along San Diego's southern border,
along with military personnel, Border Patrol agents, and the
local environment and economy have all suffered impacts of
waterborne and now increasingly airborne impacts of trans-
boundary sewage floats. Our witnesses are very well aware of
this situation.
Rehabilitating and expanding the international wastewater
treatment plants in San Diego is critical, again, for multiple
reasons. I am talking about not just public health but national
security, as well as environmental protection. Beyond more
Federal funding, it is clear that Federal agencies need to act
as one in order to comprehensively address this dire situation
as soon as possible.
Secretary Connor, I applaud the Administration's efforts to
reprioritize projects in historically underserved and
overlooked communities. General Spellmon, the Corps has been a
great partner to the International Boundary and Water
Commission in contracting and the procurement process for this
project.
I want to say, my colleagues I am working with our House
colleagues also, to include new authorization in WRDA 2024 to
leverage the Corps' environmental infrastructure and ecosystem
expertise to mitigate pollution in the disadvantaged
communities in the Tijuana River watershed.
Question for both Secretary Connor and General Spellmon.
What efforts have you made to date to leverage the engineering
and contracting expertise to help the Commission make these
critical infrastructure upgrades as soon as possible?
Mr. Connor. Senator Padilla, I appreciate the question and
the theme of it, which is Federal agencies need to act as one.
When there are issues, it is an all hands on deck type of
situation. We recognize that.
Other than that, I am aware of our work with the
International Boundary and Water Commission on the Rio Grande
system and the work we do to support their dam safety efforts
in other areas. I am not familiar with the specifics of what we
may have done in the Tijuana River situation other than the
fact that we have done similar work and I know in Mississippi
and other places in evaluating drinking water systems,
wastewater infrastructure needs. Engineering and consulting
services that the Corps can do, I would think we would be able
to find a way to do that there.
General Spellmon. Senator, I would just add, I do have a
general understanding of this issue, and our South Pacific
Division had early dialog with the Boundary Water Commission.
They wanted some advice on technical requirements for the
solution as well as an acquisition approach. We shared all of
that with them.
The Boundary Commission self-performed on this contract,
letting that in December 2023. I do not know the final scope of
that work. Sir, that is where my knowledge ends, and we stand
by to provide any additional technical support that they may
require.
Senator Padilla. Okay, then consider this question in this
hearing as my putting it now on your radar and on your plate. I
know I have spoken with Secretary Connor about the urgency of
this situation. I can see how it may look from the point of
view of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, and
frankly across the Country, both sides of the aisle. Not too
much sympathy for coastal communities around San Diego, we are
talking about disadvantaged communities in so many ways along
the border. We have this tricky jurisdictional concern.
We do have a partner, with the government of Mexico putting
forward their expertise and resources on their side of the
border. With the impacts, it is not just more than a year and a
half running of beach closures because of waste in the water,
such as health impacts for surfers and tourists. We are talking
Border Patrol personnel, military personnel that are in
training that become significantly ill because of the condition
of the water.
It is something that we can absolutely do something about.
It is within our jurisdiction. It is within resources. There
has been additional funding requested by the President in the
supplemental package that morphed into what the Senate passed
last week. We know it is a priority of the White House. I am
pleading with you all to work together, work with me, and work
with others to address this situation as quickly as possible.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Senator Carper. Thank you, Senator Padilla.
Senator Wicker, and Senator Boozman has joined the on-deck
circle.
Senator Wicker. Thank you very much.
Secretary Connor, thank you so much for visiting with me
numerous times about a number of issues, including the
Mississippi River and Tributaries System, specifically the dam
at Arkabutla Reservoir that is threatened and how that might
also affect Grenada, Enid and Sardis Reservoirs, the Pearl
River flooding problem, the Mississippi Sound water intrusion
along the Gulf Coast, and the Tennessee Tombigbee Waterway.
I hardly know where to begin, but let's talk about the
Mississippi Sound. As you know, the opening of the Bonnet Carro
Spillway along the Mississippi River had extremely detrimental
impacts on our marine ecosystem. It injected fresh water from
the Mississippi River into the salt water of the Gulf Coast,
devastating our shrimp and oyster industry.
The Mississippi delegation sent a letter to Colonel Klein
of the Vicksburg District requesting that members of the
Mississippi Sound Coalition be included as stakeholders, the
Mississippi Sound Coalition, and that the Mobile District be
considered an equal participant.
We have not received a response to that letter from the
Mississippi congressional delegation. Help us on that, if you
possibly can. Let's get that rectified quickly.
The Mississippi Sound Coalition includes mayors, elected
county supervisors, business leaders, and commercial fishers
from the Mississippi Gulf Coast community. My colleague,
Congressman Ezell from the Fourth District of Mississippi,
during a House T&I hearing last year, asked you if you would
ensure that these community leaders and business owners are
included in conversations about this study. You answered in the
affirmative.
Somehow, the Mississippi Sound Coalition did not even
receive notice about the most recent stakeholder meeting in
January. Will you commit to formally recognizing the
Mississippi Sound Coalition and will you commit to allowing the
Mobile District to serve as an equal participant and support
for the study?
Mr. Connor. Senator, I am going to followup on the letter,
I am going to followup on the issues. There is no reason why we
can not include the Mississippi Sound folks in the Lower
Mississippi River comprehensive study. The whole point is to
rethink and to look at the system we have right now, the new
challenges, the changes in operations such as the more frequent
use of the Bonnet Carro Spillway, and think what else we need
to be doing to protect all the interests.
We want all the interested parties and affected communities
to be part of that discussion.
Senator Wicker. Do you have any idea why that fell through
and why the Coalition was not notified?
Mr. Connor. I do not, sir, and we will followup.
Senator Wicker. I would simply add to this question the
fact that a Federal judge has ruled in a very important case
that this, the opening of this spillway was done contrary to
law. I wanted to mention that.
Let's talk about the Tennessee-Tombigbee Waterway. This is
another instance where direction was given, this was in WRDA
2020, direction to the Corps to expedite the completion of a
feasibility study to deepen the Tennessee Tombigbee Waterway
from 9 to 12 feet. Congress provided $3 million in
congressionally directed spending to do this.
We have now been told that as a matter of fact, they are
going to concentrate first on the Black Warrior Tombigbee
Waterway deepening, and that will take precedence over the
study to deepen the Ten-Tom. The Ten-Tom Authority was informed
that waiver from USACE headquarters is needed to continue the
study.
WRDA 2020 says the Secretary shall expedite the completion
of a feasibility study for the Ten-Tom. When do you expect the
Corps to complete this expedited study to deepen the Ten-Tom?
General Spellmon. Sir, I will jump in first. I want to just
make sure; we had our first public meeting on the Lower
Mississippi in Bay St. Louis, Mississippi yesterday, and heard
from the Coalition loud and clear. I was glad they were there
and got all that great feedback from them.
Senator Wicker. Mississippi Sound?
General Spellmon. Mississippi Sound, yes, sir.
Senator Wicker. Thank you, sir.
General Spellmon. Sir, on the study, this hasn't gotten to
Mr. Connor yet. It is on my desk. We are going to take to him
next week a proposal to do both proposals. We are going to
update him. We are going to look at both of these waterways and
the deepening to 12 feet. I need some additional time and
resources and I am going to outline that to Mr. Connor next
week.
Senator Wicker. Will you be looking at them simultaneously?
General Spellmon. Yes, sir.
Senator Wicker. All right. Now, on the Ten-Tom, it is
pretty much shut down below Demopolis and Coffeeville in
Alabama now, because the lock broke. This is a critical
problem, and what it does is it requires shippers above these
two locks and dams to ship all the way up to Paducah, go down
the Ohio and then the Mississippi.
What is our plan to expedite this and keep the Ten-Tom from
being closed for some significant period of time?
General Spellmon. Yes, sir, I just want to credit the teams
in the field; they saved those upper pools, and within 4 days.
We have a 40 foot by 10 foot gap in the upper basin sill on
this project. We will pour concrete beginning next month. That
work will wrap up in May and then we will get the system
reopened.
Senator Wicker. The system will be able to reopen in May?
General Spellmon. We will have the sill repaired by May,
yes, sir.
Senator Wicker. All right. Well, thank you. There may be
some more questions for the record, but I do appreciate it.
Again, we couldn't do it without you. We just have so many
problems that are grave and actually affecting the livelihood
of people around in our area. Thank you very much.
Senator Carper. Thank you. Senator Boozman, thanks for
joining us. Thanks for your patience. You are recognized.
Senator Boozman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, very much. Thank
you all for being here. We appreciate the great work that you
do. It is such an important area.
Last year in front of this committee, I mentioned the Air
Force selecting Ebbing Air Force Base in Fort Smith to serve as
the home of the F-35 training mission. That is certainly
important to our allies, but it is also so important to our own
national security. As you know, the Corps Little Rock District
is responsible for construction for this mission, and will be
tasked to meet tight turnarounds. Again, the Colonel is doing a
great job.
I guess I just wanted to visit a little bit, can you
provide us any updates regarding the execution of the project?
Is everything going well with your relationship with the Air
Force?
General Spellmon. Yes, sir, that part is going fine. The
CRs have an impact. I certainly want to acknowledge the
importance of this program. To date, we are responsible for six
projects in this what will be eventually a $485 million
program. From the Air Force, we received $10 million of that
$485 million to begin design. We are ready for the next
installment of about $3 million to wrap and get going on those
first contracts.
Senator Boozman. Very good. Thank you very much.
General Spellmon, Assistant Secretary Connor, as you know,
we are in a situation where phase two of Three Rivers on the
MKARNS, McClellan-Kerr Arkansas River Navigation System, needs
to be completed and thereby avoid any further construction
delays and cost increases.
The MKARNS is a vital component of the economies of
Arkansas, Oklahoma, as well as Kansas, in fact, the Nation.
Losing navigation on the entire MKARNS would cost over 6,000
jobs and cost national GDP to decline by $723 million. Critical
failure on the system could result in it being shut down for
months, and even a temporary shutdown could put future use of
the system at risk.
It is my understanding that there is unanimous support from
industry and the delegation regarding the movement of 12-foot
deepening project funds transferred to complete phase two of
Three Rivers. If this is the case, can you tell us about the
reallocation, why it hasn't occurred, or your concerns about
that?
Mr. Connor. Senator, we have the opportunity to finish that
project, and we want to do that and ensure we do not have any
additional cost increases. As of today, we have reallocated
that money and made the necessary, informing Congress of the
reallocation of $83 million from the MKARNS 12-foot deepening
project that can not be used any time soon over to the project
that will allow us to initiate the contracting action to be
done by the end of this year to make sure, I think it is $113
million left to fully complete that project. We will find the
additional resources to do that. That action is effective as of
today.
Senator Boozman. Thank you very much.
General Spellmon. Senator, I would just add, we have all
the funding that we need this year to continue on with NEPA. We
have a lot of NEPA work to do, and then also preliminary
engineering and design for this deepening. We have the funds we
need right now to keep moving forward.
Senator Boozman. We appreciate it. You all have been so
helpful in that regard. Again, thank you very, very much.
Material, labor, supply chain costs are impacting everyone,
not just entities involved with construction. However, what we
see too often with the Corps still is full funding being
assigned to a project and then we find out that we are still
tens or hundreds of millions of dollars short of completion.
General Spellmon, Assistant Secretary Connor, how can we
collectively do a better job of forecasting future costs so we
execute more projects on time and budget? I am more than
familiar in the sense that I have the military construction
part of the appropriations with Senator Murray, and we run into
these problems all the time. Do you have any suggestions for
us?
General Spellmon. Yes, sir. First, we are changing the way
we report cost estimates, both to the Secretary and to
Congress. You will see that in this next report of Chief's
reports that come before you for WRDA 2024.
In the past, we have done a design through the midpoint of
construction, and we come back and tell Congress and Secretary
Connor with three decimal points what we think it is going to
cost. We are going to continue to do that. The law requires it.
We are also going to give you a range of the potential costs
and the assumptions that go into our cost estimates.
Sir, we are doing a lot internally to the Corps to get
after this. We are not the only construction agency dealing
with this. You have our commitment to continue to work.
Mr. Connor. Can I just add real quickly? I think one
option, the Corps, as General Spellmon mentioned, is doing a
lot of actions to improve the cost estimating process.
One of the things we can do is improve design maturity.
That means applying more resources early on to do some of the
in-depth work and design that we need, so we can go with, in
the 3x3x3 processes or the 5x3x3, where we can do more work
early on, get to 20 percent, 25 percent design maturity as
opposed to 15 percent. That will help solidify cost estimates.
We have been having good discussions with committee staff
about that. I think that is an important item.
Senator Boozman. Let us know how we can help. I think that
is something the entire committee agrees with, how we can be
more effective. Thank you.
Senator Carper. Senator Boozman, thanks.
Senator Merkley, thanks for your patience and you are
recognized. In the on-deck circle is Senator Mullin.
Senator Merkley. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Secretary Connor, and General Spellmon, it is great to see you
both.
Before I ask questions, I want to commend the work of the
Corps in the Portland District Office in advancing the Portland
Metro Levee System. It is a 27-mile levee system along the
Columbia River.
General Spellmon, you were the commanding general of the
Northwest Division when the project got underway. It would be
great to see that project come full circle by getting into the
construction phase. I look forward to working with you to see
that happen. Thank you.
The Cole Rivers Hatchery, named for an individual, not for
a river, the Cole Rivers Hatchery is on the Rogue River. It
plays an absolutely critical role. Colonel Michael Helton, now
retired, went down with me. When we came to the recognition of
how many different Native fish populations and different rivers
that it provide, and also rainbow trout for various lakes, and
the hatchery is in great trouble because of the lack of clean
water and disease that could shut down the hatchery, and just
kind of 30 years of wear and tear.
Restoring that hatchery to its full functionality is
incredibly important. The Army Corps, to do so, needs to
identify significant need capability for this project.
Do you commit to working with the Portland District and my
staff and with me in identifying as much capability as possible
or restoring the Cole Rivers Hatchery?
General Spellmon. Yes, sir.
Senator Merkley. Thank you very much.
I want to turn to tribal housing on the Columbia River.
When the dams were built on the Columbia River, the town for
Caucasians that was inundated was rebuilt, but the villages,
the Native villages, were never rebuilt.
We have been working intensely to try to create, well,
right that wrong, from now three quarters of a century ago. The
Army Corps released last month the implementation plan for the
village development plans for the tribes.
What timeline do you expect to reach the implementation
phase of the plan and begin construction on housing?
General Spellmon. Yes, sir. I would just start off my
response by saying we are at a much better place than we were
five or 6 years ago when we stopped off on this effort. We were
trying to combine the tribes into one consolidated village.
The direction we are going now are separate sites for each
of the tribes. We are in the process now of identifying the
needs and the potential locations, which bank, what site, so
that we can get on with the village development plans.
We are about 6 months into the real eState, culling down
what the options are, and then we will be able to get into more
meaningful discussions on the specifics of each one of those
villages. Sir, we have the resources we need, and we are in a
much better place with the impacted tribes than we have ever
been in the past.
Senator Merkley. I really appreciate that observation. All
the easy-to-develop land has been developed along both sides of
the north bank and the south bank of the river, which means it
will never be easy to find these sites. They will be expensive;
they will be difficult to provide infrastructure. It is so
important that we address this situation, the legacy wrong that
we need to right.
By the way, the Confederated Tribes of the Warm Springs
Reservation and the Confederated Tribes of the Umatilla
Reservation have expressed optimism and appreciation for the
level of engagement they have had with the Army Corps at this
point. You are all really doing a great job. I am very much
impressed by what you have done and I understand you are
planning to continue regular engagement with the tribes.
General Spellmon. Yes, sir, that is correct.
Senator Merkley. Thank you. In particular, the tribes have
noted the Corps is further along on the displacement
assessments for the Bonneville and Dalles Dam pools. Will you
also work to expedite the displacement assessment for the John
Day and McNary pools?
General Spellmon. Yes, sir.
Senator Merkley. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
Senator Carper. I am struck by the range of issues that
have been brought up here. I am glad you guys are doing your
homework, and more questions to follow.
Next is Senator Mullin, and in the on-deck circle, Senator
Fetterman, my neighbor in Pennsylvania.
Senator Mullin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Senator Boozman
took most of my questions, talking about the MKARNS. It is both
vitally important to our States. I just want to throw some fun
facts out there. I get the MKARNS sometimes gets overlooked,
because it is not a huge waterway, it is not as big as Ohio and
Mississippi and people just honestly forget about it. When we
tell people that we have an inland water port in Oklahoma, a
few are like, what?
When you really start talking about the facts, here you
have a navigational channel that is 445 miles long, it is the
largest and farthest inland water port in the United States.
During the winter months, it contributes to over 50 percent of
all ag products moving in and out of western States, Midwest.
During the summer months, it operates over 50 percent of all
the ag products leaving Kansas, Oklahoma, and 40 percent of
Nebraska.
Just in Oklahoma alone, it employs 11,000 people just on
the navigational channel. It creates $1.6 billion of economic
impact yearly. I say all this because we have 18 locks on that
port, you heard Senator Boozman talk about the depth that we
need increased, from 9 feet to 12 feet, which will be a 40
percent increase.
Right now we have so much barge traffic we can not increase
it anymore. All the products that I just named would actually
increase, if we just went from 9 feet to 12 feet, a 40 percent
increase in products being brought up and down.
At the same time, when I first got into office, we had a
$60 million backlog of critical backlog needs. Today, sir, we
are over $600 million of critical backlogs needs. Let me
explain what critical backlog means. It means it has a 50-50
chance of failing any time, any time it can shut down.
We can lose those whole navigational channel, but
priorities keep switching, and we keep getting farther and
farther and farther behind. Every year, we are not catching up,
we are getting behind.
I just ask the question, what are we doing about the
critical backlog need? General Spellmon. Sir, a great question,
and those numbers are correct. Congress is helping us
immensely. Of that $600 million backlog, we received $463
million in 2022 and 2023 to get after longstanding O&M, and we
are in the President's budget for another $112 million.
Sir, I will just throw some additional numbers at you.
Senator Mullin. That is across all your navigational
channels.
General Spellmon. No, sir.
Senator Mullin. That is just for MKARNS?
General Spellmon. That is for MKARNS. The numbers are,
there are 18 locks and dams, but on those projects, sir, you
have 225 miter gates that all need work, Tainter gates, 36
miter gates and we are working through what we call 110-foot
stoplog conversations. That is a lot of money, that is a lot of
effort. We appreciate the investment and are working hard
through the qualified labor to get these projects in the
ground.
Senator Mullin. Do you know how far behind we are on that,
then? I mean, like, if we allotted the money, how long is it
going to take you to get caught up?
General Spellmon. Sir, I would like to get with both
districts, and I can come back to you with an accurate
response.
Senator Mullin. Okay. I appreciate, I know we all have our
own issues here, and I do appreciate that, I will say what the
Chairman said, your depth of knowledge is quite remarkable, and
the fact that you came that prepared really excites me.
Anything that I can do to be helpful. Have you been at
MKARNS?
General Spellmon. Several times, yes, sir.
Senator Mullin. Next time you go, make sure that I get the
opportunity to visit with you, because I would love to take a
ride down that navigation channel and maybe one of the locks.
It is remarkable what they are doing with an old system and how
they are keeping it going. Those guys that work on those locks
are absolutely impressive.
General Spellmon. Very innovative, yes, sir.
Senator Mullin. Very much. Thank you. I yield back.
Senator Carper. All right, thank you.
Next is Senator Fetterman. Senator Fetterman, welcome. Good
to see you. In the on-deck circle is Senator Sullivan.
Senator Fetterman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Hello, welcome. There is no reason why you would know this,
but I live in western Pennsylvania. One of the great things
that your organization has done is the Braddock Locks and Dam.
Perhaps you might be familiar with that.
The work that the Army Corps has done on the Mon and Ohio
Rivers has really put things in motion for another 100 years of
commerce in western Pennsylvania. I take every opportunity to
praise your organization's work. I am grateful, so thank you.
Now I am excited to be working with Chair Carper and
Ranking Member Capito to ensure that the WRDA bill includes
priorities that are critical to Pennsylvania's infrastructure.
The first priority I want to ask you today is about acid
mine drainage. People may not know the term, but Pennsylvania
sees that impact when their rivers might turn bright orange in
a very shocking kind of shade. If often will be fish kills.
One watershed in Pennsylvania, the Tioga River Watershed,
has water acidic as vinegar. They will be needing the kind of
investment of more than $60 million to clean the drainage and
to bring back life to that ecosystem.
This is not just in Pennsylvania's problem. There are other
States as well that have these kinds of challenges.
Sir, if you had a pre-dedicated program for acid mine
drainage, how could the Corps assist communities that need
technical and financial help with this problem?
General Spellmon. Yes, sir, I will start. First, I want to
acknowledge the water quality issues. Our teams are very
familiar with that. In the past, we have been using public
assistance to States or Section 206 in the CAP program. You run
into some funding limits with each one of those, sir, so you
are correct. I think a specific authority to actually get after
this challenge would greatly enable the Corps to get after the
scope of everything you have just described.
Senator Fetterman. Would you peg that amount of $60
million, is that too much, too low, kind of Goldilocks?
General Spellmon. Sir, I do not know the value. I know the
scope of the problem; I just can not monetize it.
Senator Fetterman. All right, thank you.
I am also working to ensure the commercial future of the
Allegheny River. If we are going to make things happen in
western Pennsylvania, we need the Allegheny River to be open
for business.
Right now, there is a risk for operational hours being
reduced. Along with my colleague and friend, Senator Casey, I
have proposed language to help us find a path forward for
Allegheny County to keep lockage levels and service steady
until we do.
Lieutenant General Spellmon, you affirmed to my office that
you would evaluate the economic impacts before considering a
decrease on these service levels. Would that evaluation include
the long-term to current commerce in the region if the lock
hours were threatened or reduced?
General Spellmon. Yes, sir, you are correct. This is in
regard to the eight locks and dams that we have on the
Allegheny River. The economic analysis that I mentioned in the
previous hearing, that is based on a 3-year average of both
commercial and recreation lockage that we do at each of those
eight facilities. In other words, we let the commerce dictate
the level of service that we have at each one of those locks,
not vice versa.
Today, Lock and Dam 2 and the C.W. Bill Young Lock and Dam,
they are the busiest, and we have two 10-hour shifts per day
passing that traffic. Lock and Dam 4 and 5, a little bit less
traffic, so they have one 10-hour shift. Locks 6 through 9,
those upper 4, much, much less commercial traffic, so we
operate those by appointment only.
Sir, we will increase that level of service. It is all
based on the traffic that we are seeing.
Senator Fetterman. Finally, is it fair to say that you are
willing to commit to work with my office to increase
utilization and maintenance of service?
General Spellmon. Yes, sir.
Senator Fetterman. All right, thank you. I cede the
remaining time back to the Chair.
Senator Carper. Thanks, Senator Fetterman.
Senator Sullivan, I said you were in the on-deck circle,
but we have two colleagues who got here earlier today and had
to leave. Under the rules I need to recognize them first. Bear
with us, please.
Senator Kelly, you are recognized first.
Senator Kelly. Mr. Chairman, I did not check in.
Senator Carper. Senator Ricketts, you are recognized.
Pardon me.
Senator Ricketts. Thank you, Chairman Carper, and thank
you, Ranking Member Capito, for holding today's hearing. I want
to thank Lieutenant General Spellmon and Mr. Connor for joining
us here as well.
I am grateful for the improving partnership between my
State and the Corps, and am hopeful of projects that we can
complete moving forward to be able to serve Nebraskans. This
March marks the 5-years since the blizzard and flooding that
was the most widespread natural disaster in our State's
history. As Governor at the time, I saw first-hand how this
once in a 500-year flood claimed lives and caused billions of
dollars in damages across my State.
That is why for me the No. 1 priority with the Army Corps
is flood prevention. Last year 10 months ago, you were here and
we were discussing the permitting timelines and the outliers. I
want to make sure that Nebraskans impacted by mistakes in the
past get answers and that we do not make the same mistakes
again.
I know the permitting delay which led to the flooding at
Offutt Air Force Base involved many circumstances, and I
appreciate your office getting back to us with some of the
information around that, and certainly demonstrated there was
plenty of opportunity all around to be able to improve that. I
think the Army Corps itself admitted that this was an outlier
project.
When we spoke last year, you pointed to the fact that Corps
districts are given discretion to expedite reviews where
appropriate.
General Spellmon, what steps have you taken to prioritize
and ensure the completion of some of these outlier projects?
The one I just referenced, Offutt Air Force Base, took 6 years
to get the permit. What steps have you taken to be able to
address some of those outlier projects?
General Spellmon. Sir, I think, if I can come back to that,
outlier. I do not believe that one was an outlier. I would
disagree with that characterization of it.
We are, and I mentioned earlier in the hearing that we are
taking advantage of funding that you in Congress have given us,
particularly in the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. We have
hired an additional 160 regulators for our districts, and we
are on our way to 200.
Sir, we have new tools in place, a regulatory viewer system
that allows our regulators to make more efficient decisions in
the field, when they are out there with their partners walking
the ground on these respective projects. As I said, we have
done 15,000 Section 404 and Section 10 permits to date this
fiscal year. We are up to about 78 percent on time. That is a
slight increase from last year, but we will take that, and we
are going to continue to push on this very important program.
Senator Ricketts. I am curious, you said you disagree with
the notion that it was an outlier project. My recollection is
you said that most of your permits get down to like 18 months,
isn't that right?
General Spellmon. No, sir. This was a Section 408 request.
We typically turn those around within 90 days. The project you
mentioned, I am sorry, we do tens of thousands of these each
year, so I do not have them all committed to memory. This one
started in 2010.
The applicant brought in an engineering firm; we didn't
actually have an application until 2013 in the Omaha District.
We received the application; it had a number of technical
shortcomings. We received it in May, and we gave it back to the
applicant in August. Senator, we didn't hear from that
applicant again for 2 years. Then when we got it back, we were
able to get it----
Senator Ricketts. Well, that is kind of my point, is that
it is an outlier, because it is one that took longer than your
normal process. Is that not accurate?
General Spellmon. An outlier because 5 years of the 6-years
you described were with the applicant, not with the Corps.
Senator Ricketts. Right, but Okay, so isn't that an
opportunity to be able to get back to the applicant and say,
hey, what is taking so long to close this out? That is why I
say this took an extraordinarily long time. Like I said, there
is an opportunity on everybody to be able to improve.
I think one of the areas that Army Corps could improve is
by saying, hey, 2 years is a long time. Are you guys going to
respond back to us or not so we can close this case?
General Spellmon. No, sir, you gave it wrong. We were
waiting on the applicant to get back to us on the technical
questions.
Senator Ricketts. That is what I am saying, getting back to
the applicant and saying, why have not you responded back to
us? You asked for this permit, do you want it done or not?
General Spellmon. We did. We got it in May. We returned it
around August. They did hear back from us, and then they went
dry for 2 years.
Senator Ricketts. That is my point. When you have somebody
who is in your process, flagging that they have not responded
back for 2 years and maybe circling back.
General Spellmon. Sure. We can potentially look at that,
Senator. Absolutely.
Senator Ricketts. That would be one, or shutting down the
process and saying, hey, we are actually not going forward,
then you can actually take it off your books. That would help
you out as well, right?
General Spellmon. Absolutely.
Senator Ricketts. All right, well, let me shift views on
you just a moment. Following the issue of the final WOTUS Rule,
did your headquarters give an internal guidance to Corps
districts in September 2023 on implementing the rule, which
includes issues on assessing whether certain features like arid
west drainages are relatively permanent?
General Spellmon. Sir, there has been a series of guidance
that has gone out to the field following the 8 September 2023
rule from Sackett.
Senator Ricketts. Is this one where you instructed them not
to make that guidance public?
General Spellmon. I am not familiar with not making things
public, sir. We are working hard to be open and transparent,
Senator.
Mr. Connor. That is more on my office.
Senator Ricketts. Can you enlighten me on this one?
Mr. Connor. Yes, absolutely. The guidance we provided in
September post the Sackett decisions was merely to represent
how we were going to work through processes of making
jurisdictional determinations with our counterparts at EPA.
That is an elevation memo to describe the process, because we
knew there would be questions coming down.
We have not issued any guidance specifically in more
detailed interpretation than what we did in the conforming rule
that got published on September 8th.
Senator Ricketts. Help me understand this. You issued this
as internal guidance, is that accurate?
Mr. Connor. Internal guidance, but it is out there, it is
available for anybody to see. It is published.
Senator Ricketts. You have published this? It is public,
you have published it?
Mr. Connor. That is correct.
Senator Ricketts. Applicants would have access to this
guidance from September 2023 with regard to their application?
Mr. Connor. It is procedural guidance, but we are happy to
share it with anybody. I believe it is on the websites.
Senator Ricketts. Great. Thank you very much. Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
Senator Carper. Senator Capito has to leave, and she has
asked to ask another question. Go right ahead, please.
Senator Capito. One question, apologies to those I am
jumping in front of.
General Spellmon, you mentioned the challenges posed by the
social cost of carbon to project development. Has the
interagency working group consulted you in the development of
those figures? Have you had any input or conversations with
them about this?
General Spellmon. Ma'am, I could followup specifically, at
what level in the field where we are doing many of these
pipeline EISs, to what level we are engaging with that group. I
have not had any personal interaction.
Senator Capito. Okay. We have been trying to find out how
these costs are calculated and what the cost is. While you are
looking at that, could you find out what figures you are using?
Are they the same ones that the EPA is using in these
regulations? Have you committed to the interagency working
group that the social cost of carbon is hindering your ability
to meet your statutory guidelines under the NEPA process that
we put into effect?
General Spellmon. I think I understand the question, ma'am.
All of our calculations are in the draft EISs and all the
regulatory products that we produce when we go through the NEPA
process. It is all there for the public to see.
Senator Capito. Okay, so you have a cost assigned there? Do
you know what dollar figure they are using as a social cost of
carbon? There is a dollar figure associated with this, right?
Mr. Connor. There is a dollar figure.
Senator Capito. What is that? Do you know?
Mr. Connor. I do not have that. I would be happy to respond
about our interactions with the interagency group as well as
the specifics.
Senator Capito. Okay. Then last thing, questions for the
record, I want to submit a question on the hold and save
clause. Thank you both.
Senator Carper. Without objection.
Senator Carper. All right, Senator Stabenow was here at the
beginning of the hearing, and she has come back. I am going to
let her go ahead of you, Senator Sullivan, if you will bear
with us. You will get to go ahead of Senator Kelly. It is kind
of interesting, we have a Marine over here, just retired as a
full colonel, great career, and we have a Navy captain over
here and one there and the Army out here. Any Air Force out
there? The services are represented.
Senator Stabenow, you are recognized. Thanks for coming
back.
Senator Stabenow. Thank you, Mr. Chair. As we all do, I am
attempting to be in two hearings at the same time this morning.
Checking into both, and I am glad to be back. I appreciate it
so much, and appreciate our witnesses today. Good morning. It
is good to see you.
Not surprising, the issues I want to talk about. I
appreciate so much partnering with you.
Let me start with the big ongoing issue, Mr. Connor and
Lieutenant General Spellmon, that we have been working on
together, which is the Soo Locks. As you know, in the last
WRDA, we secured the authorization necessary to complete the
Soo Locks project.
Let me just say to my colleagues, this is a major
infrastructure project that is key to moving raw materials,
agriculture products, finished goods through the St. Lawrence
Seaway into the Great Lakes and throughout our Country. It is a
critical, critical infrastructure project.
We know from the Department of Homeland Security economic
impact statement that a 6-month unscheduled shutdown of the
locks, heaven forbid, we have one lock that is working, would
cost 11 million jobs, 11 million jobs and reduce our GDP by
$1.1 trillion. This is a big project.
We got the authorization, but we have to have the funding,
which is what we have been working on, to match it. We worked
together last year, we programmed our Army Corps dollars to
ensure that we had the funding necessary for the next steps. I
am so incredibly grateful for your partnership on this, because
we have kept it going, now the stakes are even higher. Keeping
the project on track starts with the President's budget, meet
the Soo's full 2025 funding capability.
To both of you, Mr. Connor, General Spellmon, can I count
on you continued support to get this over the finish line,
starting with the President's 2025 budget request?
Mr. Connor. Senator, thank you very much. For all the
reasons you just mentioned, it is a high priority, as you know,
as we went through the process to ensure in a continuing
resolution that we could still make a contract option so that
we can keep the project moving forward and try and minimize
additional cost increases, we are fully committed to moving
forward.
The good news is on discussions about Soo Locks, we engage
everybody at the highest level of this government, not just in
the Army Civil Works Program, but at the White House and OMB.
We are committed to working through all these issues and
continue to support the project.
Senator Stabenow. Terrific.
General Spellmon. You have our commitment. This is a
project of national significance, for everything Mr. Connor
just said. We have great momentum, and we have $235 million in
the President's budget. We are looking forward to getting that
so we can keep that momentum going.
Senator Stabenow. That is music to my ears. It is so
important to be able to get that done.
Let me also ask, on another topic, Mr. Connor, you and I
talk about a lot, which is Brandon Road. There is this thing
called invasive carp that wants to get into our Great Lakes,
Mr. Chairman.
Senator Carper. One of my relatives.
Senator Stabenow. Yes, right, invasive Tom Carp.
[Laughter.]
Senator Stabenow. We have these fish that we have been
looking for every way possible technically to hold these fish
out of the Great Lakes who are destroying the fishing
ecosystems and basically the economy in many ways, and have
found technically how to do that.
Now it is taking years to get to the point, how do you
allow barges up the river without the fish coming up the river?
Here we are right now in a situation where we are at a critical
point, as you know. We have the technology, we have actually
got the funding, but we are in a step-by-step, day-to-day step
right now because of a project partnership agreement that has
not been signed.
I am asking you this, even though I know that our friends
in Illinois, the State of Illinois needs to do this, and the
State of Michigan is working with them now to get this now.
Do I have your commitment to do everything in your power to
make sure that we can get this PPA signed as soon as possible
to get the construction going?
Mr. Connor. Senator, you absolutely have my commitment.
Everything within our power to try and move this forward, to
accommodate the issues raised by the State of Illinois, we are
willing to do. If I thought going to Springfield and sitting in
the office and working through issues would be helpful, I would
do that, because the project is as important as you reference.
There are issues that have been raised, and of course,
those discussions that are outside of our authority. Congress
has already adjusted cost share. We can not unilaterally go any
further than what Congress has already gone.
I appreciate the need to move forward. I do also appreciate
that. It is my understanding the State of Michigan is now
actively working with the State of Illinois.
Senator Stabenow. Yes.
Mr. Connor. Anything I can do or the Chief can do to
facilitate those discussions and get us to a PPA so that we can
use the $250 million that we have available to start that
project, we are willing to do.
Senator Stabenow. Terrific. Let me just say that cost
shares and the issue, I know Senator Duckworth, a great member
of this committee, and I are both interested in the next WRDA
bill to be addressing that for the States.
Quickly, I know I am out of time, Mr. Chairman, but one
idea that the State partners raised that I just wanted to get a
quick response on was expediting the project timeline by our
allowing that remediation work be carried out at the same time
of construction.
What makes sense to me for remediating something in terms
of, we think there are going to be some issues on some land,
doing that while we are doing construction, if it saves money,
if it saves time, does that makes sense for us to make sure you
can do that?
General Spellmon. Senator, it makes absolute sense. We run
into this on many Civil Works projects. We believe there is
some potential legislation that could help us, even in this
upcoming WRDA, to help us get after that.
Senator Stabenow. I think it is really important, Mr.
Chairman. I hope we can do that. Thank you.
Senator Carper. Good. Thank you, Senator Stabenow.
Senator Sullivan, thank you for your patience. You are
recognized.
Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I want to compliment both the witnesses today, Mr.
Secretary, General. I think you guys are doing a great job. I
think your responsiveness and understanding of all the
different questions here has been very impressive. Thanks very
much.
I want to dig into some of the big projects in the great
State of Alaska. As I like to say, we are a resource rich but
infrastructure poor State. Alaska has less road miles than
Connecticut, and we are almost 120 times bigger than
Connecticut. Mr. Chairman, just for your information, we have
about twice as many roads than Delaware has, but we are 264
times bigger than Delaware.
We have a lot of catching up to do.
Senator Carper. I would like to say we are still growing,
but actually, as sea level rises, it is not looking good.
Senator Sullivan. The first one will not surprise either of
you. Mr. Secretary, you have been great on this. This is the
Donlin 404 permits. I just literally had a great meeting in
D.C. with the leaders from the Calista Native Corporation, what
we call the YK Delta region, Yukon Kuskokwim region. By the
way, this is one of the poorest regions in the world, I am
sorry, in America. Great Americans there, of course, our Alaska
Native people principally.
As usual, we have what our Native people, what we refer to
as the eco-colonialists. These are Lower 48 environmental
groups that do not give a damn about the Native people. They
come up, they file lawsuits trying to tell the Native people
what is good for them. Eco-colonialists. We have a lot of eco-
colonialists coming trying to hurt these communities.
As you know, this one is now fronted by Earth Justice, the
latest eco-colonialists trying to harm Native people in Alaska.
They have worked on this, going after this 404 permit that is
now almost 6 years old that you guys have provided. I just want
to once again get your commitment, of course you have to meet
with these eco-colonialists, I understand, but not to reopen
the Donlin 404 permit, and if there is litigation, to defend
it. Six years, coming back and trying to reopen something after
6 years, to me does not, that is not the rule of law. That
turns us into like a banana republic, like Venezuela or
something like that.
Can I get both of your commitments? Mr. Secretary, you have
given me this commitment a million times, I literally was asked
by the great people of the region, when they heard I had this
hearing tomorrow, to ask once again. I said I will.
By the way, the EPA Administrator has been great on this,
too. He said we are not reopening it. Can I get your commitment
once again?
Mr. Connor. Senator, I always appreciate the opportunity to
have a conversation with you to reiterate my commitment. I know
there are Alaska Natives on both sides of the issue.
Senator Sullivan. Not many on the other side, trust me. I
represent them. This has been driven by the eco-colonialists. I
represent the Alaska Native people; the vast majority are
supportive.
Mr. Connor. We have no basis to revisit that permit right
now.
Senator Sullivan. General?
General Spellmon. Sir, General Gibbs and Colonel Palazzini
talked to all of these groups. There is no intention to revisit
any of the permits that have been made.
Senator Sullivan. Thank you. Let me just go to two other
projects, big ones, that you guys have just done a great job
on. We had this district partnership, project partnership
agreement that I actually went to the signing of, the North
Slope Borough for the Barrow, now called Utqiavik Coastal
Erosion Project.
Then the project partnership agreement for the Port of
Nome, Nome Expansion Project. These are funded, significantly,
thanks to all of you and the Congress. They are still going to
likely need continued funding.
Can I get both of your commitments to not just, to make
sure that once we get two-thirds of the way through, that we
continue to get that funding? We will work on it. They are both
very strategic. The Port of Nome, as you know, General, is
really strategic. I was just down in an Armed Services hearing,
you had this joint Russian-Chinese Naval Task Force off the
coast of Alaska again this summer, 12 ships, probing our
territory, America's territory. We need a place where we can
put Navy ships, ice breakers, in the Arctic, and the Port of
Nome is going to be able to do that.
Can I get your commitment on both of those? They are good
projects coming along well. The partnership, the project
partnership agreements that you guys have signed with the North
Slope Borough, with the community of Nome, have just been
great. I want to compliment you both again.
Mr. Connor. Senator, you are correct, they are good
projects. I think it is instructive that we know so much about
where The Rock is in Alaska, to try and manage the cost of
these projects. Yes, you have our commitment.
Senator Sullivan. The Rock, as you know, could be local.
That is going to reduce the cost.
General?
General Spellmon. Yes, sir. I have been to both of these
projects, and you have our commitment. These are important and
we want to finish what we start.
Senator Sullivan. Great. Let me ask, Mr. Chairman, real
quick, it actually relates to Senator Kelly, since I know he is
next. Senator Kelly and I are going to be introducing
legislation soon, our staffs are working together, on this
issue of contaminated lands for Native Americans.
It is a little bit different in Arizona than it is in
Alaska, but as both of you know, the Alaska Native Claims
Settlement Act, the Federal Government gave Congress, or
Congress provided 44 million acres of land to the Native
people, set up our regional corporations. Biggest indigenous
peoples settlement probably in the history of the world,
certainly in the history of America. Mr. Chairman, you have
been a great champion of this.
A lot of that land was contaminated. The Federal Government
was like, here you go, Alaska Natives, here is your land. Oh,
by the way, it is all polluted. Pretty bad. The Chairman was
great on a bill of mine a couple of years ago where we said,
hey, at a minimum, CERCLA, Comprehensive Environmental
Response, Compensation, and Liability Act, does not require,
you know, you can not sue these Native corporations under the
Federal Government. The Federal Government actually gave them
polluted land. We fixed that idea and liability, which of
course made sense.
We are working on some innovative cleanup ideas. I just
want to continue to work with your offices on the technical
assistance that we need to bring our bill forward, hopefully
get it into the WRDA bill, that would provide remediation
efforts outside of the usual wetlands mitigation bank idea.
This would be the idea of hey, go to clean up Alaska Native
or Arizona tribal lands as part of a mitigation effort that is
innovative. Look, in terms of the pollution in Alaska, the
Federal Government is unlikely to be able to clean all that up.
It is literally in the billions.
We are trying to find innovative solutions. This committee
has done a really good job on addressing this in a bipartisan
way. Senator Kelly and I, like I said, are working on it.
Can I get your commitment to continue to work with my
office, Senator Kelly's office, on some of these innovative
solutions, to do what we all want, which is cleanup the lands
of our first peoples in this Country? By the way, great
patriotic Americans. They serve at higher rates in the military
than any other ethnic group in the Country.
Mr. Connor. Absolutely, you have my commitment. We need
innovative ideas, and when we can restore the environment and
take care of Native American issues, all the better.
General Spellmon. Senator, we do a lot of cleanup, 1950
Area Atomic Energy Commission Nuclear Waste Cleanup across the
Country, a lot of work on formerly utilized defense sites. A
lot of experienced staff in this area, and we are looking
forward to working with you on the text.
Senator Sullivan. Great. Thank you. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
Senator Carper. You are welcome.
Senator Kelly?
Senator Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, thank you, Senator
Sullivan. To expand a little bit on that, in Alaska and
Arizona, clearly different, we have a lot of the same issues,
though. Ours happen to be like arsenic in the water. I had a
Hopi tribal member in my office just this morning, and he was
talking specifically about the water he has access to has
arsenic in it.
We have over 500 abandoned uranium mines on the Navajo
Nation. The Havasupai Tribe's water is under threat of being
contaminated. We have multiple issues, and this legislation can
go a long way to helping solve those.
On a separate topic, I want to talk to you about managed
aquifer recharge. I do not easily get frustrated. More than a
year after WRDA 2022 was signed into law, the Corps still
hasn't issued guidance to explain how non-Federal sponsors can
partner with the Corps to carry out managed aquifer recharge
projects. This was authorized under Section 8108 of WRDA 2022.
As both of you may recall, this provision authorized three
things. One, it required that the Corps carry out a national
assessment on how to carry out aquifer recharge projects. No.
2, it required the Corps to establish a working group on
managed aquifer recharge best practices. Three, it authorized
the Corps to carry out managed aquifer recharge projects with
non-Federal sponsors.
Now, as somebody who has championed these provisions, I
want to note that all three of these are important, but the
provisions are not intended to be implemented independently.
Mr. Connor, I noted you said in your testimony that the working
group would take longer to stand up because it will be
considered an advisory committee.
That does not explain why the Corps hasn't issued
implementation guidance explaining how Army Corps districts can
partner with local sponsors to carry out managed aquifer
recharge projects as required in WRDA.
This delay is having real consequences. In Arizona, the
city of Tucson reached out to the L.A. District nearly 6 months
ago. They have identified a project that would be a perfect
match for this program. It would construct new groundwater
recharge facilities and expand riparian habitat protection at
the base of what is called A Mountain in the city of Tucson.
Once constructed, this project could help the city of
Tucson save 4,000 acre-feet of water a year. Look, time is of
the essence here for Arizona. We are in a drought that has gone
on for 20 years, it is the worst drought in 1,200 years. We had
a good snow pack on the Colorado River last winter, so we had a
wet winter. It has been wet in Tucson. Last winter, it was
looking pretty good this winter.
If we stand up groundwater recharge facilities quickly, we
can build more resilience in what will certainly be a dry year
next year or the year after. It is critical to get this
guidance and begin work on these groundwater recharge projects,
especially in drought-stricken cities.
Mr. Connor, when do you expect implementation guidance will
be issued for the feasibility study portion of the Managed
Aquifer Recharge Program, which is Section 8108(b)? Why is this
taking so long?
Mr. Connor. Senator, two quick points. The implementation
guidance is still being drafted at this point in time. I will
commit to you to go and personally see what I can do to move it
as quickly as possible, so that we can move forward with that
project. I agree with you, we want to be assisting these
communities with respect to managed aquifer recharge.
The second point I would make is we are not waiting,
though, to look for opportunities to support managed aquifer
recharge. We are funding it through EI programs, Kyrene in your
State, southern California, we are doing the same thing. We are
also managing facilities differently such as Prado Dam in
southern California, where we are making releases differently
of floodwater so it can be picked up by the local water
district and put into their managed aquifer recharge system.
Any opportunities, and I think we are doing the same thing
at Lake Roosevelt now, trying to finish an EA to work with your
water program in your State. We want to move forward,
notwithstanding the guidance. I understand the guidance is
important. I will personally go back and see how quickly we can
get that.
Senator Kelly. I appreciate your doing that. When you say,
as soon as possible, what do you think that means? When can we
get that implementation guidance? Or maybe, General, you could
add to that.
General Spellmon. Sir, we are not waiting on implementation
guidance. We are already implementing this in the field. I will
followup on the projects in Arizona.
We need three things. At the Corps project, we need a water
supply or water conservation authority. Our non-Federal
sponsors typically will conduct a retention basin below the
dam. The most important thing we need is the water.
The first time we saw this in California, it was early
2023, and we were able to make this use. We can move out with
the guidance that we have, and I will followup with my team on
the projects you mentioned in Arizona.
Senator Kelly. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Carper. Thank you, Senator Kelly.
Senator Markey, welcome back. We are glad you are here.
Senator Markey. Full attendance today at this committee, so
you can see how this seniority system works. You have to get in
line.
Our flood management policy has historically failed to
protect Black, Brown and low-income communities. Instead, we
have prioritized communities with the most expensive real
eState and the highest incomes. This injustice is particularly
worrisome at this moment with climate change increasing, the
risks of extreme storms and flooding, in the very communities
that have been ignored and unprotected over the past century.
Many communities in my home State of Massachusetts are
facing these very same risks today. Leominster, for example,
experienced weeks' worth of rain in just a few hours last
September. Along the coast, communities like Dorchester,
Chelsea, East Boston, and Revere have high annual flood risks
that are increasing each and every year.
In the Merrimack Valley, extreme rain events have increased
the likelihood of combined sewer overflows, which sends
untreated stormwater and wastewater through gateway cities like
Lowell, Lawrence, and Haverhill into the Merrimack River.
In other words, the communities that are already most
vulnerable will see a sea at their doorstep first. Secretary
Connor, by the way, thank you for your great work, thank you,
sir, for your great work as well. Do you agree that the Army
Corps must ensure that Black, Brown and low-income communities
receive equitable investment from the Corps?
Mr. Connor. Senator, great question. Yes, I absolutely
agree, and we are taking a number of actions that I can
articulate if you would like me to.
Senator Markey. If you can in maybe a minute, give us the
highlights.
Mr. Connor. Highlights, as the Chairman just mentioned, we
are moving forward with the rulemaking to implement the
principles, requirements and guidelines. This is going to
significantly change the Corps' planning process so that we
look at maximizing benefits, public benefits, and we look at
not just financial, but economic and social benefits, and treat
communities more fairly and equitably. This will benefit rural
communities, inner-city communities, as well as tribal
communities.
We need to broaden the reach of the Corps. It is God-awful
to say agency-specific procedures to implement PRNGs, but it is
probably the most important institutionalizing approach that we
will take here in the near term.
There is also a number of pilot projects for economically
disadvantaged communities to move forward to flood studies and
100 percent Federal cost share to do smaller CAP, continuing
authorities projects, for economically disadvantaged
communities.
Senator Markey. Thank you. I just want to highlight here
that you have an environmental justice policy that you issued
in March 2022. I want to congratulate you on that. Thank you
for continuing that great work.
In 2023, it was a devastating year for flooding along the
Connecticut River in Massachusetts. Flooding impacted some of
the poorest communities, gateway cities, many vulnerable
farmers who keep us all fed, inspiring coalition of towns along
the Connecticut River banding together to find a regional
solution to this threat. They would greatly benefit from
Federal support.
In this upcoming Water Resources Development Act, which the
Chairman and the Ranking Member are putting together, I am
working to advance several Army Corps Connecticut River flood
mitigation projects in communities like East Hampton and North
Hampton, as well as a broader flood mitigation strategy for all
the communities impacted by the flooding.
General Spellmon, do you agree the Army Corps has an
important role to play here to mitigate this regional flood
risk posed by the Connecticut River?
General Spellmon. Senator, yes. I would just acknowledge
the incredible precipitation that your State has been
receiving. Section 216, Review of Completed Civil Works
Projects, would be the appropriate authority here. This system
is 80 years old. It deserves a re-look. We have a provision
already, 8156 in WRDA 2022, that allows us to move out on the
Federal interest determination, Federal expense for the first
$200,000, and we will seek those funds when we receive an
appropriation in 2024, sir.
Senator Markey. General, you know our rains have been
biblical, just absolutely unbelievable.
Secretary Connor, thank you for all your work on the Cape
Cod bridges. I want to note that in the hearing. Much
appreciated.
Mr. Connor. Thank you for your leadership, sir.
Senator Connor. Thank you, sir.
Finally, quickly, I would also like to highlight an
important project in North Adams, Massachusetts. In the 2022
Water Resources Development Act, we successfully authorized a
study to improve flood management of the Hoosic River. The
river cuts through the center of this small city, North Adams,
and endangers both lives and property. I would just encourage
the Army Corps to dedicate the necessary funding to complete
it.
That is a request that I make to both of you. Thank you
both. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Carper. Thanks for coming back and joining us, and
for your persistence.
Senator Cardin is recognized, and in the on-deck circle
right now is Senator Whitehouse. Welcome. He is I think the
16th member of our committee to be here. This might be a high
water mark.
Senator Cardin. This is one of our favorite hearings, I
want you to know that. We all look forward to this. I
apologize; I chair the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and
we had to deal with Iran. I much prefer to deal with the Army
Corps issues than Iran. Thank you for this hearing going on as
long as it has gone on.
This is really an opportunity for us to deal with some of
the important issues. First, thank you. Mid-Bay is well
underway as you all know, following up on Poplar Island, the
environmental restoration. It is incredible how Poplar Island
has been received, not just in our region, but around, I think
literally the world, as a successful environmental restoration
of a previously habitable island in the Chesapeake Bay that now
has been restored, and the use of dredged materials. It is a
beneficial use.
The next is Mid-Bay. The good news is Mid-Bay, last year we
got the funding to get it started. Thank you very much for the
strong support that we had. Now we need to make sure that we
followup with the construction dollars, because it is a multi-
year effort.
I thank again the Army Corps for all of its work in making
this a reality. It is one of the great legacies of Senator
Sarbanes in establishing this program. It is now being copied.
Thank you very much.
I want to go to one that we do need WRDA authorization on,
and that is the Seagirt Loop Channel. That is critically
important. I have watched as vessels try to maneuver getting in
and out of the piers, and they are getting larger. It is a
safety issue; it is a time issue.
General Spellmon, could you just comment on the importance
of the Seagirt Loop Channel to the commerce of our Port of
Baltimore?
General Spellmon. Yes, sir, it is incredibly important. We
signed the Chief's report and it is up for Congress'
consideration in WRDA 2024. This is a 50-foot deepening. What
that is going to allow us to do is avoid these three-point
turns that these large, post-Panamax vessels have to do, very
risky to do.
It is a very important project. In fact, we went there to
roll out our 2023 budget. Secretary Connor and I go to
different projects that are important to the Nation. We rolled
out our 2023 budget from Seagirt. We look forward to getting
into construction on that one, sir.
Senator Cardin. Secretary Connor, welcome back any time. We
will make sure if we get the loop fixed, we will be able to get
our vessels in faster and we will be able to show you more
action. Please come back and visit us.
Thank you for that. I appreciate that very much.
Mr. Connor. Absolutely, Senator. I look forward to that. I
really want to get out to Poplar and the mid-Chesapeake.
Senator Cardin. It is becoming somewhat of a tourist
attraction. I understand it is incredible for bird watching. It
is a popular spot now.
I want to mention one other issue. In WRDA 2022, we got an
authorization for environmental infrastructure projects for the
State of Maryland. There is now a lot of interest in moving
forward on that. I am going to ask your cooperation as we try
to develop a strategy to implement that authorization in a way
consistent with congressional authority and appropriations, but
in a meaningful way to carry out WRDA 2022. Will you all help
us doing that?
General Spellmon. Yes, sir, absolutely. Colonel Pinchasin,
as you know, has been going to the Association of Counties
meeting for the 24 counties, and there is a lot of interest. I
believe we have letters of intent on about $53 million worth of
work. It is just one of those cases where there is absolutely
more need than space in the budget. That is something we have
to work on.
Mr. Connor. Absolutely committed to the program. As you
know, the appropriations process is going to be key, as it has
been with all environmental infrastructure. We are taxing the
limits of that program now. This is really good work that has
been done.
Senator Cardin. Let me put in a good word for Colonel
Pinchasin. She does a fabulous job on behalf of the Army Corps,
and she is so engaged with the community, which makes our jobs
as members of the Senate a lot easier. Thank you very much for
all your service.
Senator Carper. Senator Cardin, thanks for getting over
here and joining us.
Senator Whitehouse, for our witnesses, we have 19 members
who serve on this committee. Sixteen have arrived here and
asked questions and participated.
Senator Cardin. For the ones who didn't show up, can we
have their money?
[Laughter.]
Senator Carper. You can not have their money, but you can
have their time.
Sheldon, welcome.
Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you both for
being here. I think I will take my time to go through a punch
list of Rhode Island related projects that I would like to keep
focus on, from very small to very, very large.
The small one is industrial-era pilings around India Point,
along the Providence and East Providence shore, which we have
been trying to clear out for many, many years. A few have been
pulled out in relation to a small, defunct bridge removal that
took place. We would like to get the rest of it going. There is
one.
The second is, there is a sunken tugboat not far south from
where those pilings are, and the Department of Environmental
Management has been requesting information from the Corps for
several months now about the permit to remove that sunken
tugboat. I would like to get attention to that, so that they
have an answer and can plan accordingly.
Providence, our capital city, sits in a sort of shallow
declivity, and is extremely vulnerable to flooding,
particularly as we face increasing threats of sea level rise. I
think we are a trillion tons off of the Greenland ice sheet,
which has consequences. At the moment, you all are looking at
the Fox Point hurricane barrier to, among other things, see if
it is adequate to meet the new risks that climate change and
global warming and fossil fuel emissions have caused.
Stacked right behind that in terms of our Rhode Island
needs is the prospect of potentially having to move south
further to the Fields Point area to construct a larger, more
survivable hurricane barrier there. We are going to need to
have some pretty serious thinking. It would be an enormous
public works project, not on the scale of protecting Boston by
having to build an entire dike around the area through the
islands and the harbor and all. We are narrower, you can kind
of put a barrier across.
It is going to be a complicated project, and it has to
allow for, it has to be able to move a little bit, because
there is flow back and forth, tidal flow and river flow, and
flow of sea creatures and all of that. We really need to move
that along. It is pretty important.
While the Fox Point thing is important to get done, the
really important one is probably going to be the Fields Point
Barrier, because it looks like the sea level rise projections
are going to make the Fox Point barrier have a fairly short
effective further period of life, even if it is improved.
That is another important project to us in Rhode Island,
because we do not want our capital city flooded, and we
certainly do not want it flooded because the Army Corps of
Engineers didn't prepare in time to have the studies in place
so that we could do the work to get the protection built.
The last thing is, I have been badgering the Army Corps for
a long time about the discrepancy between what the coastal and
inland flooding accounts spend on coastal versus inland
flooding. In a good year, it is 20 times on inland flooding
what it is on coastal funding. In a bad year for us coastal
States, it is 100 times on inland flooding than what it spends
on coastal flooding. When you look again at sea level rise and
what is happening, the idea that 100 to 1 or 20 to 1
discrepancy persists I think completely misses the risk profile
of our oceans and coasts.
I would urge your eager, willing, and forthcoming
cooperation with the GAO study that is trying to quantify all
of that.
There is my punch list. I have 12 seconds left.
General Spellmon. Sir, I will be really quick. On the
first, India Point Bridge, we will complete work on the pilings
by the end of next month.
Senator Whitehouse. I am not saying that is a narrow little
set of pilings compared to the work that we want to accomplish.
Those are only the ones in the immediate vicinity of the turn-
down bridge.
General Spellmon. Sir, that is correct, and that is where
we believe the authority takes us.
The second one, the sunken tugboat, I am not familiar with.
I will followup with Colonel Pabis right after this meeting.
Sir, the coast, the Rhode Island Coastline Study, that is a
Chief's report. I signed that in September; it is ready for
Congress' consideration in this WRDA bill. That will work to
get after some of the challenges that you mentioned. We want to
incorporate natural and nature-based features but also the hard
concrete and steel that you mentioned at Fox Point, the
hurricane barrier, which I have been to. I have not been to
Fields Point Barrier.
Senator Whitehouse. There isn't one yet. That is where we
need to go, and we still need to do the bathymetric surveys and
make sure we know the geology that is down below, so when we
start to plan, we are planning off of a known physical
geography.
General Spellmon. Yes, sir. This last answer will not be
sufficient, it will not satisfy you, we do have 60 coastal
storm risk management projects ongoing in the Corps right now
that you have funded, Congress has funded to the tune of about
just under $8 billion. We are looking forward to getting that
work in the ground. I know that is just a start.
Senator Whitehouse. Great. We have a very good relationship
with your local office. We will keep banging away to get these
things done. I wanted to take the opportunity while I have you
both here to put a pin on each one of those, so that you are
aware of their importance to my State and to me.
Thank you.
Senator Carper. Senator Whitehouse, thanks for joining us.
We have 19 members of our committee in all, we are just
about equally divided, Democrats and Republicans. They have
shown up in numbers. A number of them lead major committees,
including Senator Whitehouse and Senator Cardin. They found
time to come here.
I must say, I am as always impressed by the depth of their
knowledge of the needs of their respective States that fall
under the purview of the Army Corps of Engineers. It is pretty
amazing, given the breadth of the issues that we are charged
with staying on top of here in the Senate.
The other thing that really impresses me is the depth of
your knowledge and the whole range of issues that have been
asked from east to west, north to south, all the way up to
Alaska. All very encouraging and frankly impressive.
I thank you for that.
I am going to ask a question for the record. We have a vote
underway and they want me to come and vote on the floor. I had
better go, or they will take away my membership. Maybe not.
Maybe on January 5th they will take it away or something like
that.
Anyway, I am going to ask a question for the record. The
question is, we would appreciate hearing both of your
perspectives on the Corps' priorities for WRDA 2024. I would
like to have that in writing rather than verbally.
Any last words you would like to include? We do not always
give our witnesses a closing statement, but just something
fairly brief, both of you, please. General?
General Spellmon. Sir, on the WRDA priorities, first of
all, I want to say thanks for all the tools that you have given
us. You have our commitment to work hard to get those more
efficiently in the ground and be applied in the field.
Sir, I would just offer, too, for this next WRDA, that I
think would help us immensely, I think Section 1001 of WRDA
2014 that brought us 3x3, and a lot of that has done a lot of
good for my agency, I would just respectfully ask Congress to
reconsider the $3 million aspect of that. The buying power is
not the same as it was a decade ago.
Sir, the second one, some of it came up today, on Brandon
Road, but there are other projects. I think all of us would
benefit, and the ability for the Army Corps of Engineers to
assist our non-Federal sponsors with HGRW cleanup. This happens
in many, many Civil Works projects.
We would like to do that in a way that does not incur
Federal liability on these projects as we do that work. There
are just many applications out there that I think would help
delivery of some pretty complicated projects.
Senator Carper. All right, thank you.
Mr. Secretary?
Mr. Connor. Mr. Chairman, I will respond for the record
with those priorities. I am happy to have a discussion with
your staff any time.
Mostly, I want to say thank you very much for your
leadership and your service here in charge of this committee
and everything you have done in the Bipartisan Infrastructure
Law to the ability to work and magically get WRDA authorization
legislation through in a timely manner. It is incredibly
important.
We try and identify impediments as General Spellmon just
did with respect to being successful in implementing projects.
Every 2 years getting those provisions, which helps us cleanup
and move forward because of lessons learned is incredibly
important. Thank you very much to you, Ranking Member Capito
and the staff on both sides of the aisle. We are available any
time for your needs.
Senator Carper. Thank you for that. I think they are
calling me to come ASAP to vote. There is a saying, all
politics is local. That was, I think, Tip O'Neill. Another is
all politics is personal. That is from Joe Biden. Both of them
are all right.
Again, the breadth of the issues here and the kind of focus
on a lot of important points, but some that are rather obscure,
and to hear how knowledgeable my colleagues are and frankly,
the both of you, your teams, is quite impressive.
In closing, I want to thank our witnesses for joining us
today for what I think is really important work the Army Corps
of Engineers is doing in conjunction with us and the
Administration. We deeply appreciate your insights and
testimony this morning.
WRDA 2024 will continue to advance the Army Corps' critical
work. As we continue to develop this legislation, we also look
forward to continuing the conversation about improving
implementation of past WRDAs.
With that, some final housekeeping to close our hearing.
Senators will be allowed to submit questions for the record
through the close of business on Wednesday, March 13. We will
compile those question and send them on to our witnesses, and
ask for our witnesses to reply by Wednesday, March 27th.
In closing, I would be remiss if I didn't say a special
thanks and shout-out to our teams, the folks who sit behind us,
the folks who are part of the majority and the minority on the
Environment and Public Works Committee. We couldn't do this
without the great support that you are providing us.
With that, this hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:13 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
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