    [Senate Hearing 118-758]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                            S. Hrg. 118-758

                          WATER RESOURCES DEVELOPMENT
                      ACT 2024: USACE WATER INFRASTRUCTURE
                       PROJECTS, PROGRAMS AND PRIORITIES

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                                  COMMITTEE ON
                          ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                        ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION
                                   __________

                               FEBRUARY 28, 2024
                                   __________

      Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works

                   [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                                    ------

                      U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

    62-428                    WASHINGTON : 2026

                   COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                        ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
                                 SECOND SESSION

                      THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware, Chairman
              SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia, Ranking Member

    BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland         KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
    BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont             CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming
    SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island     MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma
    JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon                 PETE RICKETTS, Nebraska
    EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts      JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
    DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan            ROGER WICKER, Mississippi
    MARK KELLY, Arizona                  DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska
    ALEX PADILLA, California             LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina
    JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania

                   Courtney Taylor, Democratic Staff Director
                   Adam Tomlinson, Republican Staff Director

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------
                                                                       Page

                               FEBRUARY 28, 2024

                               OPENING STATEMENTS

    Carper, Hon. Thomas R., U.S. Senator from the State of Delaware..     1
    Capito, Hon. Shelley Moore, U.S. Senator from the State of West
      Virginia.......................................................     3

                                   WITNESSES

    Connor, Hon. Michael C., Assistant Secretary of the Army for
      Civil Works....................................................     6
        Prepared statement...........................................     9
        Responses to additional questions from:
            Senator Capito...........................................    19
            Senator Carper...........................................    21
            Senator Whitehouse.......................................    22
            Senator Fetterman........................................    22
            Senator Capito...........................................    22
            Senator Mullin...........................................    23
            Senator Sullivan.........................................    23
    Spellmon, Lieutenant General Scott A., 55th Chief of Engineers
      and Commanding General, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers...........    25
        Prepared statement...........................................    27
        Responses to additional questions from:
            Senator Carper...........................................    32
            Senator Ricketts.........................................    34
            Senator Graham...........................................    35

       WATER RESOURCES DEVELOPMENT ACT 2024: USACE WATER INFRASTRUCTURE
                       PROJECTS, PROGRAMS AND PRIORITIES

                                  ----------

                          WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 28, 2024

                                           U.S. Senate,
                     Committee on Environment and Public Works,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:02 a.m. in
    room 406, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Thomas R. Carper
    (chairman of the committee) presiding.
        Present: Senators Carper, Capito, Cardin, Whitehouse,
    Merkley, Markey, Stabenow, Kelly, Padilla, Fetterman, Cramer,
    Mullin, Ricketts, Boozman, Wicker, Sullivan.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS R. CARPER,
                U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF DELAWARE

        Senator Carper. Good morning, everyone. I am pleased to
    call today's hearing to order and to welcome our distinguished
    witnesses from the Army Corps of Engineers, Assistant Secretary
    Connor and General Spellmon. Navy salutes Army, welcome. Thank
    you for joining us, and thank you for your continued service to
    our Nation.
        For a decade, this committee has led the effort to pass
    biennial Water Resources Development Act legislation, known as
    WRDA, with overwhelming bipartisan support. Last Congress, the
    Senate passed WRDA 2022, as you recall, by a vote of 93 to 1.
    We do not see margins like that every day in the U.S. Senate.
    They never see things like that in the U.S. House.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Carper. I say that lovingly, as a former House
    member.
        Having said that, that is a pattern that we want to
    continue to replicate: timely bipartisan reauthorization,
    resulting in sound policies to address our Nation's critical
    water resource needs in the face of increasingly powerful
    storms, devastating floods and more intense and frequent
    droughts. I am proud of the work done by all of our EPW
    colleagues and by our staffs in making this goal a reality.
        I am especially grateful to Ranking Member Capito for the
    partnership we have forged with her and her talented team on
    all things WRDA. When it comes to this committee, WRDA is a
    shining example of the bipartisanship that is too often
    overlooked on Capitol Hill these days.
        This past fall, Senator Capito and I received, at our
    request, more than 1,200 requests from our colleagues in the
    Senate from north to south and east to west for consideration
    in WRDA 2024. I believe that might set a new record. Since
    then, we have been diligently reviewing these priorities with
    the Corps, and we have identified some consistent themes.
        First, communities are asking for Corps projects to be more
    affordable. Second, non-Federal sponsors are seeking more
    flexibility when working with the Corps. Third, communities are
    asking for Corps projects to do more to address extreme weather
    and climate change.
        To many of us, these are all too familiar topics. That is
    because in the past several reauthorizations, we have made
    historic changes to Corps policy to address these very issues.
    We have made cost shares more favorable for underserved and for
    tribal communities. We have given the Corps authority to review
    their contracting procedures. We have directed the Corps to
    consider the impacts of climate change in just about everything
    that you do.
        One might ask, why are we still seeing these WRDA requests
    in 2024, if we have already addressed these problems? Well,
    while the last three WRDA bills have been transformative,
    implementation of these laws is taking longer than expected, in
    some cases a good deal longer. We need to better understand how
    we can help the Corps implement these laws more expeditiously.
        As many on this committee have heard me say, probably too
    often, everything I do, I know I can do better. I think that is
    true of all of us, even the Navy, even the Army. That same
    principle applies here with respect to this legislation.
        To be fair, the Corps has begun to make some meaningful
    progress. Two weeks ago, I was pleased to learn that the Corps
    announced a regulatory proposal to revise its Principles,
    Requirements, and Guidelines. Historically, the Corps has
    relied too much on an oversimplified cost to benefit ratio in
    its decisionmaking process, which has sometimes undercut
    crucial community and ecosystem needs.
        This new regulatory proposal makes major strides to elevate
    the best-available science throughout the Corps' decisionmaking
    processes and it goes a long way toward building community
    resilience to climate change . I hope to see that rulemaking
    process move forward as swiftly as possible.
        I do recognize that implementation of Congress' recent WRDA
    bills, including the rulemaking for the Principles,
    Requirements, and Guidelines takes time. The clock is ticking.
    We are already feeling the acute impacts of climate change
    across our Nation, from the drought in the West, to sea level
    rise on the Gulf Coast, to floods from snowpack melt in the
    Midwest.
        Without intervention, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric
    Administration estimates that the threat of sea level rise is
    going to accelerate, not diminish, in the next 30 years.
    According to the U.S. Census Bureau, approximately 40 percent
    of the U.S. population lives within 100 miles of a coastline.
        That means more than 130 million people who live in coastal
    counties, including all of Delaware, much of Maryland,
    Virginia, the Carolinas, all the way down to Florida, and
    States to the north and south of us, frankly, just about
    everybody on this committee is included in those States, are
    included in the threats posed by rising sea levels.
        We need to continue working with partners like the Corps in
    addressing the impacts of climate change.
        While the slow progress we have seen from the Corps on this
    front is better than no progress, it is my hope that today's
    discussion will be an opportunity for us to learn more about
    what has caused the delays in WRDA implementation, and how we
    can make sure that these historic bills have the transformative
    impact that Congress intends. I think you want it as well.
        Senator Capito and I are in agreement that WRDA 2024 will
    focus on individual project solutions. I will say that again:
    Senator Capito and our teams are in agreement that WRDA 2024
    will focus on individual project solutions, giving the Corps
    the ability to dedicate more time and resources to fully
    implement the changes we have already made in past bills.
        General Spellmon and Secretary Connor, we look forward to
    hearing your testimony and insights today. We always look
    forward to hearing your testimony and to working with you and
    your team.
        Thank you for joining us. Thanks as well to the men and
    women you lead today. Some are in the room; most are not. They
    are spread out across the Country.
        Before your testimony, though, I want to turn it over to
    our Ranking Member, Senator Capito, for any comments she would
    like to make. Senator Capito, welcome.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO,
              U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA

        Senator Capito. Thank you, Chairman Carper, thanks for
    having the meeting. We are working well, I think, toward
    keeping the record of reauthorizing WRDA every 2 years.
        Secretary Connor and General Spellmon, wonderful to have
    you with us here today. You might recall the last time you both
    were before the Committee, we discussed a project that is
    incredibly exciting for my home State of West Virginia, and
    that is the Nucor steel plant in Mason County. Once the plant
    begins commercial operations it will employ hundreds of full-
    time employees in an area where jobs are desperately needed.
        I want to take a moment to thank you, your staffs, and the
    team at the Huntington District for your assistance and
    personal attention to this project. I am pleased to say that
    Nucor broke ground on the site last October. This would not
    have been possible without your support and hard work.
        I will say just for the audience listening and you all
    probably know this, at the groundbreaking a Guinness Book of
    World Records was broken. It was the largest groundbreaking
    ever, with 545 shovels. Look it up in your Guinness book. It
    was very exciting for the community. Every high school senior
    was there with a shovel.
        Since 2014, the committee has kept its biennial schedule of
    passing bipartisan legislation that authorizes water resources
    studies and projects. WRDA, as we know it, also sets national
    policies for our Civil Works Program at the U.S. Army Corps of
    Engineers. I look forward to continuing that track record, as I
    stated earlier.
        Last year, Chairman Carper and I, and he mentioned this in
    his opening statement, sent a letter to our Senate colleagues
    collecting their requests for WRDA 2024. I must say WRDA 2024
    is becoming very popular. I am pleased to say that we received
    a significant number of requests, many more than last time,
    which demonstrates the strong interest but also the necessity
    of this legislation.
        As the Chairman and I have both said repeatedly, WRDA 2024
    will not be a policy-heavy bill. Instead, the legislation will
    focus on authorizing new or modifying existing studies and
    projects, as well as making much-needed technical changes to
    prior provisions in order to better reflect the intent of
    Congress.
        This limited scope will enable the Corps to focus its
    energy and resources on fully implementing prior WRDA
    provisions, which will ensure that the agency continues to be
    responsive to water resource needs.
        As I have previously stated, it is important that any WRDA
    bill supports the timely and efficient delivery of water
    resources projects, while continuing to meet national
    priorities. Flexibility, we have heard this over and over
    again, is key to ensuring that the Corps can identify and carry
    out solutions that are tailored to needs of each individual
    community.
        We must also continue to preserve the role of non-Federal
    sponsors in this project and maintain the Corps' focus on its
    primary mission of navigation, flood and coastal storm risk
    management, and ecosystem restoration.
        I would like to extend my appreciation to the staff at the
    Corps, as the Chairman stated, some of them here and many of
    them all across the Country, for their engagement with the
    Committee as we oversee the implementation of WRDA 2022 and
    prior WRDAs.
        However, I am concerned about the Corps' fulfillment of
    some of these provisions. As Ranking Member, one of my two
    priorities across the committee's jurisdiction is improving the
    environmental review and permitting processes for all types of
    infrastructure projects, while not sacrificing important
    environmental provisions.
        These processes need to move forward in a timely and
    predictable manner so that communities can realize the benefits
    of these projects for a whole lot of reasons.
        I am proud that WRDA 2022 contained a provision that
    furthers this goal, which is NEP, National Environmental Policy
    Act, reporting. Unfortunately, more than a year after
    enactment, this important provision is still not implemented.
        Earlier this month, the Corps informed the Committee that
    it will need $3 million to set up the reporting system and
    another system which WRDA 2014, that is 10 years ago, also
    needs another $2.5 million a year to maintain these systems.
    Recent WRDAs have also included provisions designed to reduce
    the financial burden on non-Federal sponsors in economically
    disadvantaged communities. Much of my home State of West
    Virginia qualifies as economically disadvantaged and could
    benefit from these provisions.
        Regrettably, some of these provisions have not been fully
    implemented, or even begun, which means critical projects are
    not moving forward. It was clear from my Senate colleagues'
    requests that many of the provisions in prior WRDAs are also
    facing delays and obstacles.
        This hearing in part is part of the Committee's ongoing
    oversight of the Corps and the agency's efforts to carry out
    these laws. We will closely examine whether or not the Corps
    has made the implementation of certain provisions needlessly
    more complicated than Congress intended them to be. I look
    forward to discussing all of these issues in more detail with
    our witnesses.
        Today, we will also learn about the Corps' priorities for
    WRDA 2024. I will be particularly interested in which
    priorities require legislative language and which can be
    carried out through existing authorities.
        Secretary Connor and General Spellmon, again, thank you for
    your continued commitment to transparency and accountability,
    and accessibility, I need to add that, as well as your insights
    into these matters.
        I also want to acknowledge and thank the staff across the
    Corps enterprise for their efforts to provide the Committee
    with technical assistance on the various WRDA requests that we
    received from our Senate colleagues. The technical assistance
    is a vital part of our legislative process and we greatly
    appreciate the responses.
        The work of the Corps has and will continue to make a
    difference in communities all across the Country, and
    particularly in my State.
        I would like to take a moment of personal privilege here to
    acknowledge a sad thing for our committee, certainly for my
    side of the aisle, but also for the chairman's as well. One of
    my great staff members, Travis Cone, who is my deputy staff
    director, this is his last meeting, his last week. He is easily
    identifiable because he is the one with the red hair and red
    beard who is sitting right behind me.
        Travis has served on my staff for 7 years, and leads the
    environment team on the committee's Republican staff. He will
    be leaving the committee later this week. He will really be
    missed, not only as a great talent, but also as a good friend
    to so many. His expertise and dedication have contributed to a
    number of legislative successes, especially the committee's
    historic drinking water legislation.
        Travis, I want to thank you for your outstanding work for
    me. The only big negative about Travis, now, I am a Duke Blue
    Devil, and he is a Kentucky Wildcat. We have had a few problems
    with that.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Capito. I can declare which blue I think is
    superior, but we do not get into it much.
        I would like to have a round of applause for Travis.
        [Applause.]
        Senator Carper. I am Tom Carper, and I approve that
    message.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Carper. Travis, we are going to miss you, buddy.
    Good luck, fair winds and following seas.
        As some of you know, I go back and forth on the train. I
    live in Delaware and go back and forth on the train a lot.
    People are very kind to me, ever since I announced I wasn't
    going to run for re-election, people are so kind, and they ask
    me, how is your retirement going, and I say, well, I am not
    retired yet.
        I do not retire until high noon on January 3d, 2025. I am
    still in the saddle, and there is plenty to do. All the
    Senators who are here today and those who are not, we have a
    lot on our plates to work on to keep us busy until that date.
        It is easy to introduce legislation. It is easy to
    introduce bipartisan legislation. It is fairly easy to get, in
    this committee, and eventually to move from hearings to bring
    the legislation to the floor and maybe passing it in the Senate
    and maybe finding companion legislation in the House and
    finding a way to compromise, and the President to sign into
    law. That is regular order. We are pretty good at regular
    order; we are really good at it in this committee.
        Another big part of our job is implementation. Between now
    and high noon January 3d, 2025, we are going to be focused as
    well on implementation, and we should be. I look forward to
    doing that.
        Now, I think I mentioned, I will say this again, Senator
    Capito and our agreement that WRDA 2024 will focus on
    individual project solutions, giving the Corps the ability to
    dedicate more time and resources to fully implement the changes
    we have already made in past bills. Again to our witnesses
    today, we look forward to hearing your testimony and look
    forward to working with you toward that end.
        Now, let's turn to our witnesses. Assistant Secretary
    Connor has served in a variety of positions, I read this last
    night, and it is very impressive, a variety of positions in the
    Federal Government focusing on natural and water resources
    throughout much of your career. He was confirmed as the
    Assistant Secretary of the Army in 2021, in November as I
    recall. He advises the Secretary of the Army on all matters
    that pertain to the Army's Civil Works program.
        With that having been said, Secretary Connor, you are
    recognized for your statement. Welcome, and thank you.

          STATEMENT OF HON. MICHAEL C. CONNOR, ASSISTANT
              SECRETARY OF THE ARMY FOR CIVIL WORKS

        Mr. Connor. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, Ranking
    Member Capito, and distinguished members. I very much
    appreciate the opportunity to discuss the Army's priorities for
    WRDA 2024. I very much appreciate the concept of a policy-light
    WRDA 2024, because we do need to catch up and implement the
    very good provisions that you have enacted.
        My written statement has been submitted for the record, and
    identifies actions to implement the last two WRDAs, as well as
    priorities for the Army Corps of Engineers Civil Works Program.
    The testimony speaks for itself, so I will use my time to
    quickly describe a visit I made to Hawaii last week, which I
    think is relevant to a number of the issues we are going to
    discuss today.
        My trip included reviewing a range of Civil Works missions
    being carried out in Hawaii, including disaster response, flood
    risk management, beneficial use of dredged material, and
    aquatic ecosystem restoration, all of which involved
    economically disadvantaged communities.
        A few takeaways. Most significant, the Army Corps of
    Engineers continues to be at its best when called upon to work
    with FEMA and other agencies to respond to emergencies and
    disaster situations. In Maui, where the communities of Lahaina
    and Kula were devastated by wildfire, the Corps, using tools
    and new direction provided in recent WRDAs, worked hard to
    understand cultural sensitivities and is now gaining trust with
    the Native Hawaiian community to more effectively carry out its
    debris removal mission, which will set the stage for rebuilding
    on the 1,600-plus properties damaged or devastated by the
    wildfires.
        In addition, using local contractors and strong
    collaboration with local authorities, it moved quickly with
    remarkable focus and effort to carry out its responsibilities
    for critical infrastructure to construct, I have to tell you
    from a first-hand tour, a very impressive elementary school in
    95 days, completed just last week to allow the local school
    district in Lahaina to return elementary school age children in
    this impacted community to some semblance of normalcy with
    classes starting in the new facility on April 1st.
        Senator Carper. What grade levels did that include?
        Mr. Connor. It is an elementary school, so it is K through
    6.
        Senator Carper. All right, thanks.
        Mr. Connor. There are other response actions being carried
    out, and much more work to be done overall, but the bottom line
    is that the Corps continues to evolve and modernize how it
    works with different communities, which in Maui is resulting in
    our team becoming integrated within the community and may
    ultimately lead to a transition from response to rebuilding and
    thus improving the resilience of Maui, using a number of tools
    and authorities provided in recent WRDAs.
        Second, like elsewhere, the Corps is carrying out an
    increasing Civil Works workload in Hawaii, including a
    traditional large-scale flood risk project in Oahu. The Ala Wai
    project is as complicated as any flood risk management project
    in the Corps' portfolio, particularly where we are trying to
    retrofit modern flood risk management strategies into a highly
    developed area with little open and undeveloped land to work
    with.
        These large, complicated projects with significant public
    interest and involvement and complex hydrology do not
    necessarily lend themselves to a standard 3x3x3 feasibility
    study, and we appreciate the dialog with committee staff about
    how that process may need to evolve, particularly with new
    challenges and new tools such as Section 8106 of WRDA 2022.
        Finally, I would note that I toured and met with local
    sponsors involved in two smaller CAP projects and a beneficial
    use of dredged material pilot. These types of projects are of
    increasing importance as they represent a scale that can yield
    good results with affordable levels of investment for non-
    Federal sponsors. They also represent innovations for
    communities trying to maximize multiple benefits in each and
    every project no matter the size.
        Moreover, in each of those situations, the sponsors
    stressed the incredible need for these projects given the
    increasing risks from a more dynamic climate, creating larger
    precipitation events as well as stronger storm surge and sea
    level rise. While small, each of these projects have challenges
    that the Army Corps is working through as anticipated with
    pilots and new authorities that are critical to deliver on the
    need and the expectations of these respective communities.
        My overall point is that the work of this committee has
    been incredibly important in continuing to improve how the
    Corps can expand its reach to a broader set of communities,
    continue to innovate and develop unique new engineering
    solutions to new challenges. The Chief and I appreciate the
    ongoing opportunity to work closely with the committee in using
    these new authorities and the substantial resources now in hand
    through the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, disaster
    supplementals and annual appropriations to advance the
    President's Investing in America agenda and the vision for an
    increasingly responsive Army Civil Works Program.
        Looking forward, please know that we will continue to work
    closely with you and your staff in developing the next WRDA to
    ensure we have the tools, processes, and resources in place to
    one, better assess risks and innovate our approach to
    effectively address those risks, two, improve our processes to
    appropriately and equitably serve a broader set of communities,
    and three, develop projects for consideration by Congress that
    provide multiple benefits, have community acceptance, and
    include well-developed cost estimates.
        Thanks for the time, and I look forward to your questions.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Connor follows:]

        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Carper. Thank you, Secretary Connor.
        Now, to introduce General Spellmon, who has been here many
    times in the past. It is good to see you again.
        I understand you have been serving as the 55th Chief of
    Engineers and the Commanding General of the Army Corps of
    Engineers since September 2020. Is that right?
        General Spellmon. Yes, sir.
        Senator Carper. Before that, you served at the Deputy
    Commanding General for Civil and Emergency Operations. You are
    no stranger to us, and no stranger to the Corps Civil Works
    Program that is so important for this committee. We are
    grateful for your service and look forward to hearing from you
    today.
        Please begin your statement. Thank you.

     STATEMENT OF LIEUTENANT GENERAL SCOTT A. SPELLMON, 55TH CHIEF
        OF ENGINEERS AND COMMANDING GENERAL, U.S. ARMY CORPS OF
                               ENGINEERS

        General Spellmon. Chairman Carper, Ranking Member Capito,
    and distinguished members of the committee, I am honored to
    testify before you today and thank you for the opportunity to
    discuss current implementation of recent Water Resource
    Development Acts, as well as future water resource legislation.
        Before I do that, I do want to start out with a sincere
    thank-you. I have come before this committee several times over
    the past 6 years, and I have always shared that these are
    historic times for the Army Corps of Engineers. That is
    probably starting to sound rote to the committee members by
    now.
        I keep repeating that phrase because they seem to get more
    historic as every week and month goes by for us. The Secretary
    just mentioned Maui, and I appreciate his kind words there.
    That is very hard and rewarding work for the team.
        Our programs in disaster response, military construction
    for the Army and Air Force, the work we are doing for the
    Veterans Administration, the work we are doing for the
    combatant commanders in 110 countries around the globe, and
    some of our teams building the very difficult projects in
    combat zones today, and certainly the Civil Works Program here
    at home, we are seeing record levels of appropriation that we
    have not experienced in our 249-year history.
        It is that record level of investment that has brought new
    workload challenges to my agency, some that we have just not
    encountered previously. I know we are going to talk about some
    of those challenges today. They are challenges that we are
    committed to working through. An opening thank-you to the
    members of the committee and all the staff members sitting
    behind you who are helping us work our way through this massive
    workload.
        Back to WRDA. In WRDA 2022, Congress authorized 25 new
    construction projects, 94 new feasibility studies, and 131 new
    environmental infrastructure projects. This legislation
    continued a trend of advancing our mission by enabling critical
    policy transformations to address the changing needs of the
    Nation's water resource infrastructure.
        That legislation provided the Corps flexibility to design
    projects that respond to a wider suite of impacts associated
    with climate change, addressing the needs of our small, rural,
    and disadvantaged communities, as well as supporting our tribal
    partners with enhanced flexibilities.
        One of our priorities, the Secretary and I, has been to
    expand the breadth of our research and development
    capabilities. I want to thank this committee again for the
    authorization of a separate R&D account for the Corps in WRDA
    2022, an R&D account like many other Federal agencies enjoy.
        We have been working hard to enhance our knowledge in new
    and innovative technologies such as natural and nature-based
    solutions, crowd source bathymetry, achieving a better
    understanding of the sources and controls for challenges like
    sea level rise and harmful algal blooms, as well as many, many
    other initiatives. These R&D efforts bring new, powerful
    capabilities to the Corps and also enhance the Army's overall
    modernization efforts.
        I take very seriously our responsibility to regulate the
    development of Waters of the United States, including wetlands.
    Today in our regulatory program we employ 1,300 staff members.
    In Fiscal Year 2023, these professionals processed 43,235
    Section 404 and Section 10 permits. We rendered just over
    31,000 of those permits within our on-time standards, or 70
    percent.
        While that figure is significant, we know it is not good
    enough. We are on a slightly better track with the 15,000-plus
    permits that we have processed to date this fiscal year, and we
    know we have more work to do.
        We continue to seek ways to improve our timeliness with
    continued investments in our regulatory viewer, which is in the
    field now, and our regulatory request system which will go
    fully online at the end of March. These new tools are already
    helping our applicants better understand permitting
    requirements and assisting our regulators' analyses so they can
    make more timely and efficient decisions in the field.
        As mentioned, we remain laser-focused on executing record
    levels of regular and supplemental emergency funding that we
    have received over the past 5 years. In Fiscal Year 2023, the
    Corps obligated $40.7 billion, $18 billion in the Civil Works
    Program, and this is the second highest program delivery again
    in our 249-year history.
        This progress could not have happened without the tools and
    authorities given to us by this committee and by Congress. I
    believe we have good momentum in Fiscal Year 2024.
        I will conclude by saying we do not accomplish any of this
    on our own. Delivering successful Civil Works projects is a
    shared responsibility, it is a team sport. I look forward to
    continuing our great collaboration as we face the challenges of
    today and tomorrow.
        Thank you again, Chairman Carper, and Ranking Member
    Capito. We look forward to your questions.
        [The prepared statement of General Spellmon follows:]

        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Carper. Thank you both for your testimony. I am
    going to lead off then turn to Senator Capito.
        As I mentioned a few minutes ago, we need to consider the
    status of implementing past WRDA bills while the committee
    develops WRDA 2024. Unfortunately, implementation is taking
    longer, in some cases much longer than Congress expected,
    sometimes spanning multiple administrations.
        Of the more than 1,200 requests this committee received for
    the 2024 WRDA legislation, roughly half relate back to
    provisions from prior WRDAs that have not been fully
    implemented. There are multiple examples of provisions where
    implementation has not occurred, and that means congressional
    direction has been ignored. This includes Federal interest
    determination studies for small, rural, and disadvantaged
    communities, changes to the Harbor Maintenance Trust Fund to
    support expanded uses, and numerous provisions supporting the
    use of natural infrastructure to make projects more resilient
    to climate change, among others.
        A question, if I could. We will start, General Spellmon,
    with you, then with the Secretary. Both of you testified before
    this committee that WRDA implementation is a top priority. What
    is the current process for implementing WRDA legislation after
    passage? In your view, what is the cause for delays in
    implementing too many of the prior WRDA provisions? General?
        General Spellmon. Yes, sir, thank you for the question.
    First of all, I concur with you; there are delays. I would
    disagree with the characterization that these provisions are
    being ignored.
        The two primary causes for the delays, from my seat, first
    is one of timing. WRDA 2022 passed in December 2022. I had
    already turned in my budget recommendation for Fiscal Year 2024
    to the Secretary 90 days prior, in September of that year.
        When a WRDA bill passes in December, this next WRDA bill,
    it will be Fiscal Year 2026 before I can work those provisions
    into our budget.
        The second challenge is making it all fit within a budget
    top line. Things like investigations, environmental
    infrastructure, ecosystem restoration, a lot of great
    provisions, but making all of that fit into a budget top line
    has been incredibly challenging for us. People like me just
    have to make a better recommendation to the Secretary when we
    take our budget recommendations forward.
        I would tell you that we are using other sources of funds,
    where they are needed. I will give you a few examples: 8113,
    Columbia River Tribal Housing, we are moving out with funding
    that we received in great support from the three tribes out
    there, moving forward with that program. And 8116, Workforce
    Planning, not relying on Civil Works Funds. We received $9
    million in DOD to enable better retention and recruitment
    initiatives, and we are leading DOD in that effort.
        Sir, you helped me personally on 8125, the ability to sign
    warrant officers and NCOs to our Civil Works projects. The
    Secretary is going to give us implementation guidance, how we
    will fund that. Right now, we have the Army's agreement until
    they fund them out of OMA funds. We have our first three Civil
    Works warrant officers on hydroelectric plants out in the
    Pacific Northwest today.
        On 8141, the Harmful Algal Bloom Reporting, I sent my
    surgeon to Lake Okeechobee, Florida, that system is already in
    place. On 8303, we are moving our aggressively on FIRO for four
    projects out in California and Washington State. We are ready
    for more. Then 8351, another example of sturgeon habitat
    projects on the Missouri River, using existing funds to get
    those designs in. We want to get those in the river.
        Again, you said it, sir, we are not perfect. There is a lot
    of work we can continue to do to get better. We will keep
    pressing. We are committed to it.
        Senator Carper. Good. Before I ask the Secretary to also
    share some thoughts as to the cause for delays in implementing
    the prior WRDA provisions, I would note that some of the delays
    we are talking about do not just date back to WRDA 2022, they
    date back as far as 2007, which is just not acceptable.
        Secretary Connor, your thoughts, if you will, be fairly
    brief, but for the causes of delays in implementing prior WRDA
    provisions.
        Mr. Connor. Yes, Mr. Chairman, thanks for the opportunity.
    Notwithstanding the distance between us, I can assure you, I
    subscribe completely to his comments. We talk about this on a
    daily and weekly basis and work very closely together. I
    endorse everything General Spellmon just said.
        I have a couple of other quick thoughts for you. When we
    have control of our own destiny with respect to implementing
    guidance to move forward with WRDA provisions, we have done so
    and we try to do so expeditiously. Once again, we could
    improve, absolutely.
        I think we have done 31 of 35 from WRDA 2020, we have done
    6 of the 12 guidance needs with respect to WRDA 2022. It is
    when we kind of move outside that area and have to go through
    something that is deemed significant guidance, Federal world
    and the public too, to move forward and fully implement.
        A couple of examples from WRDA 2020. We defined
    economically disadvantaged communities, we had to go through
    significant guidance, notice and comment to do that. We
    completed that. Then we moved forward to try and use that
    definition to implement two pilot projects that you all
    authorized, which were 118, flood investigations at 100 percent
    Federal cost, and 165, CAP projects.
        We are moving forward with 165 and I hope can make
    announcements here in the next month or so. With 118, that was
    deemed significant guidance even after we already did
    significant guidance on the definition of economically
    disadvantaged communities.
        I am in a delay situation because of the processes that we
    set up. I didn't think that was significant. We argued against
    that; we lost. These are some of the processes we have to deal
    with, and we need to move more expeditiously through them.
        The other thing I would say is, quite frankly, we may have
    relied too much on work plans to provide us resources. In this
    era, we do not even know right now what 2024 looks like. We
    have no work plan, we have no sense of whether there will be an
    appropriations bill, whether we will have a continuing
    resolution. This impacts our ability to move forward.
        Then as General Spellmon noted, in our budget cycle, we are
    always going to be 18 months to 24 months behind any new
    authorizations appropriations. I probably went on a little too
    long, but thanks for the opportunity.
        Senator Carper. Thanks for going a little too long.
        Senator Capito?
        Senator Capito. Thank you. I would like to go right to the
    two provisions that I mentioned in my opening statement.
    Secretary Connor, WRDA 2022 contained a provision that requires
    the Corps to track and provide an annual report to Congress on
    the timelines for completing environmental reviews. It seems to
    me you would have that information anyway. You have come back
    now, estimated that a considerable amount of funding is going
    to be needed to implement this provision.
        My understanding is that Corps districts and divisions
    already utilize software that allows them to track and upward
    report key activities. What is the status of that, and can I
    have your commitment that your staff will work with mine to
    identify a path forward, so we can effectively implement this
    provision?
        Mr. Connor. You absolutely have my commitment to work
    through it. There is a quicker way that we can get the relevant
    information up and available for the public, even if we move
    forward through data bases. I am happy to do that and look for
    alternative means. We want to be transparent; we want to get
    that information out.
        The status of implementation, I do not know if the Chief
    has other information on this particular area.
        General Spellmon. Yes, ma'am, this is Section 8134 about
    NEPA reporting. I think there is a disconnect between our teams
    on what the requirements are. I think that just having a
    session on this, unfortunately, it has taken this long to get
    this conversation, we believe we are being asked to report on
    150 or so feasibility studies, and how they are working their
    way through 40 different environmental laws and regulations,
    and then have a public-facing website for that. If it is
    something less, that is a conversation we should have so we can
    get moving.
        Senator Capito. Are you suggesting a meeting between our
    teams and your teams, is that the teams we are talking about?
        General Spellmon. Yes, ma'am, our staffs, so we better
    understand the intent of that particular----
        Senator Capito. Well, this has been 2 years in the making
    here, so we probably should have had those called to our
    attention. Isn't this what you are asking for, another $3
    million to implement this particular provision? Correct?
        General Spellmon. Ma'am, if that is the requirement, to
    report on compliance with 40 environmental laws and regulations
    for those 150 studies and make it public facing, yes. We would
    need resources.
        Senator Capito. Okay, so let me just ask a simple question.
    I am sure you have in your work plans or districts or whatever,
    they have steps and implementation steps, certainly they have
    some sort of flow chart that shows where they are. Is it the
    public-facing part of it that is causing the delay?
        General Spellmon. I believe combining all that across 42
    districts into one central data base would be the requirement,
    as we understand it.
        Senator Capito. Okay. Let's go to the economically
    disadvantaged communities and the CAP. You mentioned the CAP
    projects that are delayed. These are projects that need
    feasibility studies, Federal interest determinations.
        I know that you have to use rulemaking. You kept referring
    to they, we, this, on the guidance thing. If someone is
    actually watching this and trying to figure out who is telling
    him what to do, who is that?
        Mr. Connor. I am going to be very judicious here.
        [Laughter.]
        Mr. Connor. Let's take 165. Fortunately, we were able to
    move forward and move through a notice and comment. We did go
    through an environmental assessment, we did make notice of
    funding available, and we took in applications from the public.
    Now we are in the last throes of evaluating that and moving
    forward. Once again, we are more in control.
        With respect to 118, the pilot projects for economically
    disadvantaged communities, first we had to go through the
    guidance process to define economically disadvantaged
    communities. That took like a year and a half.
        Senator Capito. Right.
        Mr. Connor. Then, when we go through the process, when we
    think it might be significant or fall into that, we make our
    case as to why it is or why we think it is not.
        Senator Capito. Who are you making your case to?
        Mr. Connor. That is initially to the Department of Defense,
    we have to get cleared, our proposed guidance cleared through
    DOD, then it goes to OIRA within the White House. There are two
    steps in that process which complicate things from the time
    perspective, and complicates things from people having
    different views than I do with respect to the significance of
    any particular action.
        Those are the specific steps.
        Senator Capito. Anybody listening says, that is bureaucracy
    with a capital B.
        Let me ask you, on the 165 projects, when do you think
    those will come out? You said shortly. What is shortly?
        Mr. Connor. I am proposing to make those decisions in the
    next couple of weeks, then we have to get that cleared to the
    Administration process. I am hoping, given the urgency, the
    need, and the fact that this is pretty straightforward stuff,
    that we can move out in end of March, end of April timeframe.
        Senator Capito. Okay. The Fiscal Responsibility Act
    contained various amendments to NEPA intended to improve the
    environmental process for all types of projects, including
    water resource projects. In prior WRDAs, Congress has provided
    the Corps with specific authorities to improve this process.
        Can you describe what actions the Corps has taken to ensure
    that the agency is compliant with these new statutory
    requirements? Have you identified any additions? I do not know
    who would be best to answer this question. General?
        General Spellmon. Yes, ma'am. We certainly have taken
    advantage of the $160 million in bill funding for our
    regulatory teams to help us with much of this environmental
    work. No one wants to get through NEPA within 2 years more than
    the Army Corps of Engineers.
        Unfortunately, this is very litigious on a number of
    projects. We are not given the easy ones, and we are asked for
    a lot of decimal points in our analysis: social cost of carbon,
    greenhouse gas emissions, multiple options in each one of
    these. That level of effort simply takes time.
        Senator Capito. Is the social cost of carbon a statutory
    part of NEPA?
        General Spellmon. Ma'am, we could pick up a pipeline, and a
    typical analysis would be, Okay, what is the social cost of
    carbon and greenhouse gas emissions for moving that product
    through a pipe. Then we will be asked to do the same, to
    compare that for the trucks that would haul those fossil fuels
    to market.
        Senator Capito. I guess what I am asking, is that a
    statutory part, or is that just what the Administration is
    telling you to do?
        General Spellmon. It is part of the NEPA regulations to do
    that.
        Senator Capito. The CEQ came back with, right?
        General Spellmon. Right.
        Senator Capito. Which just elongates the projects, makes
    them more expensive, and in some ways, they are not getting
    done.
        Mr. Connor. I understand your point, and it is complicated
    to figure out what lifecycle we are looking at with respect to
    greenhouse gases. We are working through that right now. Once
    we get that, then I think the social cost of carbon aspect of
    it is actually pretty straightforward to move forward.
        As General Spellmon, we are fully committed to working
    through NEPA to using EAs as much as we can as opposed to full
    EISs. The reality is when we get into certain projects, and
    Senator Cramer is very familiar with one and would like me to
    move much quicker, we get 200,000 comments, 30,000 substantive
    comments, these are incredibly complicated. I am talking about
    Dakota Access. We have to work through that to ensure that
    hopefully it is a longer process, and that is provided for with
    limited exceptions, even with the Debt Limitation Act. We have
    to do it to make sure we can survive any litigation, so we can
    make our decisions stick.
        Senator Capito. Thank you.
        Senator Carper. Thank you, Senator Capito. Senator Cramer?
        Senator Cramer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Ranking Member
    Capito. I am tempted to go right into DAPL, the Dakota Access
    Pipeline, but since this is a WRDA hearing, we will start
    there, and maybe we will get to DAPL.
        First of all, thank you to both of you. I do not know that
    we say it often enough. You are both generous with your time
    and your talent and you are always available to us
    collectively, and more impressively, Mr. Chairman, to each of
    us individually. We are grateful for that; I am grateful for
    that. Thank you.
        I might as well get to everybody's favorite topic in the
    world, General, and that would be the Snake Creek Embankment,
    of course. You and I have not talked for so long I feel like
    this is the first time I am getting caught up.
        As you know, from what I am hearing out of Omaha, the sort
    of dealing with the approach to fixing Snake Creek, I am
    getting a little concerned. They are committed to removing the
    43-foot difference at this time. What about the structure? What
    can you tell me about actually fixing the structural problems?
    That has me a little nervous.
        General Spellmon. Yes, sir, you are correct, the water
    control manual has been updated, and the 43-foot head
    differential has been removed. Just for everyone, this is an
    embankment that was designed to hold 54 feet of water. It holds
    less than that, 43. We are about 11 feet off.
        Sir, we are wrapping up the dam safety modification study.
    I want to take this out of the dam safety realm and put it into
    drought resiliency. I have directed the Omaha District to come
    back with two structural solutions, seepage berms and an
    embankment.
        If we receive a 2024 appropriation, we will take $500,000
    of dam safety wedge funds and we will do 30 percent designs on
    both of those structural solutions to restore the full
    capability of that embankment, and we will bring those to the
    Administration and to Congress for their consideration.
        Senator Cramer. Thank you very much for the update. Just
    for people's knowledge, what this does is it allows the moving
    of Missouri River water to over 50 percent of North Dakota's
    population. I always say we do not have a water problem in
    North Dakota, we have a water distribution problem.
        Anyway, this is an important part of that infrastructure.
    Thank you for that update.
        Assistant Secretary Connor, in WRDA 2022, we included some
    language established in this Western Water Cooperative
    Committee that allows the western States like North Dakota this
    opportunity to bring issues directly to the Corps. I am
    wondering what the status of establishing that is. I have been
    hearing from some of the States, including mine, that there has
    been a lot of activity.
        Has it been established? DO you know what the status is of
    establishing the committee?
        Mr. Connor. The process for establishing that committee is
    to get a Federal Advisory Committee Charter through the
    Department of Defense. I believe that has been completed on
    this one to designate a Federal officer, provide the correct
    training. We have done that.
        We have teed up the actions necessary to move forward with
    the committee, and then we need appropriations, or budgeted
    resources, one or the other, to move forward with the activity
    because this one in particular is going to be fairly expensive.
    We are paying for the travel, the logistics of getting folks
    together with respect to that.
        Once again, we are going to lag on any budget resources
    with respect to post-WRDA authorization before, or we can use
    work plan, neither one which we have had the opportunity to
    move forward with. We are teed up, ready to go, but we do need
    the resources to implement.
        Senator Cramer. I hesitate to start this conversation
    openly. Maybe you and I have talked about this before. Is there
    no way for States to absorb some of that cost, since they are
    the ones asking for this access? Near as I can tell, most
    States in the west have a better financial standing than the
    Federal Government does.
        I know I am probably blowing everybody's mind here with
    some of this. Isn't there a way to do that, to share some of
    that cost burden with the States?
        Mr. Connor. There probably is. When we have some resources
    available to start this activity up, it likely will not be
    sufficient to call everything that has been authorized with
    respect to those actions. We can go to the States at that point
    in time and say, we need some help here so that we can do the
    core part of those activities, and you have to help with the
    rest of it. I think that happens on every project that we do as
    well as probably with respect to standing up the committee.
        Senator Cramer. Since you brought up DAPL, and I was going
    to anyway, just so you know. As you know, we are in week three
    of the Federal Tort Claims trial in North Dakota, trying to get
    some money from the Federal Government to pay for the damages
    and the policing of the violent protests that the Corps
    facilitated on Corps land. It is sort of top of mind right now
    in North Dakota.
        That brings me to the EIS issue, because this is a pipeline
    that has been safely moving hundreds of thousands of barrels of
    oil a day to market for several years now, and we still do not
    have the EIS. It has been delayed multiple times.
        You spoke a little while ago about what I would call an
    enduring solution, something that is durable. What is the
    status of the final EIS?
        Mr. Connor. We issued the draft EIS last fall. I think we
    opened up with a 45-day comment period, extended it once. That
    is my reference to receiving 200,000 comments, 30,000 of which
    are unique and substantive that we have to refer to.
        We are still on track for moving forward as quickly as we
    can to be in a position to issue a final EIS this fall with a
    record of decision somewhere in the 30 to 60 day timeframe
    after that. We are proceeding.
        I understand the frustration with how long it has taken. It
    is an example, though, of when we try and take shortcuts, and
    we do an environmental assessment as opposed to an EIS and then
    we get litigation, and we get setbacks and the overall long-
    term structure is that.
        We are trying to think this through, do it right, respond,
    do correct tribal consultation, integrate their concerns and
    our responses into the process, and get this product done so it
    can stand the test of time.
        Senator Cramer. My wife often says haste makes waste to me,
    for whatever it is worth.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Carper. Thanks for those words of wisdom from your
    wife.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Carper. Our next colleague who is going to be
    recognized is Senator Padilla, and after that, Senator Wicker.
    Then we will see who else shows up. Senator Padilla, welcome.
        Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to
    begin by associating myself with Senator Cramer's remarks that
    yes, our wives are full of wisdom.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Padilla. Mr. Chairman, in the last 5 years, more
    than 100 million gallons of toxic sewage, garbage and other
    pollution have flowed over the United States-Mexico border,
    resulting in a public health and environmental crisis for
    southern California coastal communities.
        This is not a new problem, unfortunately. For decades, the
    underserved communities along San Diego's southern border,
    along with military personnel, Border Patrol agents, and the
    local environment and economy have all suffered impacts of
    waterborne and now increasingly airborne impacts of trans-
    boundary sewage floats. Our witnesses are very well aware of
    this situation.
        Rehabilitating and expanding the international wastewater
    treatment plants in San Diego is critical, again, for multiple
    reasons. I am talking about not just public health but national
    security, as well as environmental protection. Beyond more
    Federal funding, it is clear that Federal agencies need to act
    as one in order to comprehensively address this dire situation
    as soon as possible.
        Secretary Connor, I applaud the Administration's efforts to
    reprioritize projects in historically underserved and
    overlooked communities. General Spellmon, the Corps has been a
    great partner to the International Boundary and Water
    Commission in contracting and the procurement process for this
    project.
        I want to say, my colleagues I am working with our House
    colleagues also, to include new authorization in WRDA 2024 to
    leverage the Corps' environmental infrastructure and ecosystem
    expertise to mitigate pollution in the disadvantaged
    communities in the Tijuana River watershed.
        Question for both Secretary Connor and General Spellmon.
    What efforts have you made to date to leverage the engineering
    and contracting expertise to help the Commission make these
    critical infrastructure upgrades as soon as possible?
        Mr. Connor. Senator Padilla, I appreciate the question and
    the theme of it, which is Federal agencies need to act as one.
    When there are issues, it is an all hands on deck type of
    situation. We recognize that.
        Other than that, I am aware of our work with the
    International Boundary and Water Commission on the Rio Grande
    system and the work we do to support their dam safety efforts
    in other areas. I am not familiar with the specifics of what we
    may have done in the Tijuana River situation other than the
    fact that we have done similar work and I know in Mississippi
    and other places in evaluating drinking water systems,
    wastewater infrastructure needs. Engineering and consulting
    services that the Corps can do, I would think we would be able
    to find a way to do that there.
        General Spellmon. Senator, I would just add, I do have a
    general understanding of this issue, and our South Pacific
    Division had early dialog with the Boundary Water Commission.
    They wanted some advice on technical requirements for the
    solution as well as an acquisition approach. We shared all of
    that with them.
        The Boundary Commission self-performed on this contract,
    letting that in December 2023. I do not know the final scope of
    that work. Sir, that is where my knowledge ends, and we stand
    by to provide any additional technical support that they may
    require.
        Senator Padilla. Okay, then consider this question in this
    hearing as my putting it now on your radar and on your plate. I
    know I have spoken with Secretary Connor about the urgency of
    this situation. I can see how it may look from the point of
    view of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, and
    frankly across the Country, both sides of the aisle. Not too
    much sympathy for coastal communities around San Diego, we are
    talking about disadvantaged communities in so many ways along
    the border. We have this tricky jurisdictional concern.
        We do have a partner, with the government of Mexico putting
    forward their expertise and resources on their side of the
    border. With the impacts, it is not just more than a year and a
    half running of beach closures because of waste in the water,
    such as health impacts for surfers and tourists. We are talking
    Border Patrol personnel, military personnel that are in
    training that become significantly ill because of the condition
    of the water.
        It is something that we can absolutely do something about.
    It is within our jurisdiction. It is within resources. There
    has been additional funding requested by the President in the
    supplemental package that morphed into what the Senate passed
    last week. We know it is a priority of the White House. I am
    pleading with you all to work together, work with me, and work
    with others to address this situation as quickly as possible.
        Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Senator Carper. Thank you, Senator Padilla.
        Senator Wicker, and Senator Boozman has joined the on-deck
    circle.
        Senator Wicker. Thank you very much.
        Secretary Connor, thank you so much for visiting with me
    numerous times about a number of issues, including the
    Mississippi River and Tributaries System, specifically the dam
    at Arkabutla Reservoir that is threatened and how that might
    also affect Grenada, Enid and Sardis Reservoirs, the Pearl
    River flooding problem, the Mississippi Sound water intrusion
    along the Gulf Coast, and the Tennessee Tombigbee Waterway.
        I hardly know where to begin, but let's talk about the
    Mississippi Sound. As you know, the opening of the Bonnet Carro
    Spillway along the Mississippi River had extremely detrimental
    impacts on our marine ecosystem. It injected fresh water from
    the Mississippi River into the salt water of the Gulf Coast,
    devastating our shrimp and oyster industry.
        The Mississippi delegation sent a letter to Colonel Klein
    of the Vicksburg District requesting that members of the
    Mississippi Sound Coalition be included as stakeholders, the
    Mississippi Sound Coalition, and that the Mobile District be
    considered an equal participant.
        We have not received a response to that letter from the
    Mississippi congressional delegation. Help us on that, if you
    possibly can. Let's get that rectified quickly.
        The Mississippi Sound Coalition includes mayors, elected
    county supervisors, business leaders, and commercial fishers
    from the Mississippi Gulf Coast community. My colleague,
    Congressman Ezell from the Fourth District of Mississippi,
    during a House T&I hearing last year, asked you if you would
    ensure that these community leaders and business owners are
    included in conversations about this study. You answered in the
    affirmative.
        Somehow, the Mississippi Sound Coalition did not even
    receive notice about the most recent stakeholder meeting in
    January. Will you commit to formally recognizing the
    Mississippi Sound Coalition and will you commit to allowing the
    Mobile District to serve as an equal participant and support
    for the study?
        Mr. Connor. Senator, I am going to followup on the letter,
    I am going to followup on the issues. There is no reason why we
    can not include the Mississippi Sound folks in the Lower
    Mississippi River comprehensive study. The whole point is to
    rethink and to look at the system we have right now, the new
    challenges, the changes in operations such as the more frequent
    use of the Bonnet Carro Spillway, and think what else we need
    to be doing to protect all the interests.
        We want all the interested parties and affected communities
    to be part of that discussion.
        Senator Wicker. Do you have any idea why that fell through
    and why the Coalition was not notified?
        Mr. Connor. I do not, sir, and we will followup.
        Senator Wicker. I would simply add to this question the
    fact that a Federal judge has ruled in a very important case
    that this, the opening of this spillway was done contrary to
    law. I wanted to mention that.
        Let's talk about the Tennessee-Tombigbee Waterway. This is
    another instance where direction was given, this was in WRDA
    2020, direction to the Corps to expedite the completion of a
    feasibility study to deepen the Tennessee Tombigbee Waterway
    from 9 to 12 feet. Congress provided $3 million in
    congressionally directed spending to do this.
        We have now been told that as a matter of fact, they are
    going to concentrate first on the Black Warrior Tombigbee
    Waterway deepening, and that will take precedence over the
    study to deepen the Ten-Tom. The Ten-Tom Authority was informed
    that waiver from USACE headquarters is needed to continue the
    study.
        WRDA 2020 says the Secretary shall expedite the completion
    of a feasibility study for the Ten-Tom. When do you expect the
    Corps to complete this expedited study to deepen the Ten-Tom?
        General Spellmon. Sir, I will jump in first. I want to just
    make sure; we had our first public meeting on the Lower
    Mississippi in Bay St. Louis, Mississippi yesterday, and heard
    from the Coalition loud and clear. I was glad they were there
    and got all that great feedback from them.
        Senator Wicker. Mississippi Sound?
        General Spellmon. Mississippi Sound, yes, sir.
        Senator Wicker. Thank you, sir.
        General Spellmon. Sir, on the study, this hasn't gotten to
    Mr. Connor yet. It is on my desk. We are going to take to him
    next week a proposal to do both proposals. We are going to
    update him. We are going to look at both of these waterways and
    the deepening to 12 feet. I need some additional time and
    resources and I am going to outline that to Mr. Connor next
    week.
        Senator Wicker. Will you be looking at them simultaneously?
        General Spellmon. Yes, sir.
        Senator Wicker. All right. Now, on the Ten-Tom, it is
    pretty much shut down below Demopolis and Coffeeville in
    Alabama now, because the lock broke. This is a critical
    problem, and what it does is it requires shippers above these
    two locks and dams to ship all the way up to Paducah, go down
    the Ohio and then the Mississippi.
        What is our plan to expedite this and keep the Ten-Tom from
    being closed for some significant period of time?
        General Spellmon. Yes, sir, I just want to credit the teams
    in the field; they saved those upper pools, and within 4 days.
    We have a 40 foot by 10 foot gap in the upper basin sill on
    this project. We will pour concrete beginning next month. That
    work will wrap up in May and then we will get the system
    reopened.
        Senator Wicker. The system will be able to reopen in May?
        General Spellmon. We will have the sill repaired by May,
    yes, sir.
        Senator Wicker. All right. Well, thank you. There may be
    some more questions for the record, but I do appreciate it.
    Again, we couldn't do it without you. We just have so many
    problems that are grave and actually affecting the livelihood
    of people around in our area. Thank you very much.
        Senator Carper. Thank you. Senator Boozman, thanks for
    joining us. Thanks for your patience. You are recognized.
        Senator Boozman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, very much. Thank
    you all for being here. We appreciate the great work that you
    do. It is such an important area.
        Last year in front of this committee, I mentioned the Air
    Force selecting Ebbing Air Force Base in Fort Smith to serve as
    the home of the F-35 training mission. That is certainly
    important to our allies, but it is also so important to our own
    national security. As you know, the Corps Little Rock District
    is responsible for construction for this mission, and will be
    tasked to meet tight turnarounds. Again, the Colonel is doing a
    great job.
        I guess I just wanted to visit a little bit, can you
    provide us any updates regarding the execution of the project?
    Is everything going well with your relationship with the Air
    Force?
        General Spellmon. Yes, sir, that part is going fine. The
    CRs have an impact. I certainly want to acknowledge the
    importance of this program. To date, we are responsible for six
    projects in this what will be eventually a $485 million
    program. From the Air Force, we received $10 million of that
    $485 million to begin design. We are ready for the next
    installment of about $3 million to wrap and get going on those
    first contracts.
        Senator Boozman. Very good. Thank you very much.
        General Spellmon, Assistant Secretary Connor, as you know,
    we are in a situation where phase two of Three Rivers on the
    MKARNS, McClellan-Kerr Arkansas River Navigation System, needs
    to be completed and thereby avoid any further construction
    delays and cost increases.
        The MKARNS is a vital component of the economies of
    Arkansas, Oklahoma, as well as Kansas, in fact, the Nation.
    Losing navigation on the entire MKARNS would cost over 6,000
    jobs and cost national GDP to decline by $723 million. Critical
    failure on the system could result in it being shut down for
    months, and even a temporary shutdown could put future use of
    the system at risk.
        It is my understanding that there is unanimous support from
    industry and the delegation regarding the movement of 12-foot
    deepening project funds transferred to complete phase two of
    Three Rivers. If this is the case, can you tell us about the
    reallocation, why it hasn't occurred, or your concerns about
    that?
        Mr. Connor. Senator, we have the opportunity to finish that
    project, and we want to do that and ensure we do not have any
    additional cost increases. As of today, we have reallocated
    that money and made the necessary, informing Congress of the
    reallocation of $83 million from the MKARNS 12-foot deepening
    project that can not be used any time soon over to the project
    that will allow us to initiate the contracting action to be
    done by the end of this year to make sure, I think it is $113
    million left to fully complete that project. We will find the
    additional resources to do that. That action is effective as of
    today.
        Senator Boozman. Thank you very much.
        General Spellmon. Senator, I would just add, we have all
    the funding that we need this year to continue on with NEPA. We
    have a lot of NEPA work to do, and then also preliminary
    engineering and design for this deepening. We have the funds we
    need right now to keep moving forward.
        Senator Boozman. We appreciate it. You all have been so
    helpful in that regard. Again, thank you very, very much.
        Material, labor, supply chain costs are impacting everyone,
    not just entities involved with construction. However, what we
    see too often with the Corps still is full funding being
    assigned to a project and then we find out that we are still
    tens or hundreds of millions of dollars short of completion.
        General Spellmon, Assistant Secretary Connor, how can we
    collectively do a better job of forecasting future costs so we
    execute more projects on time and budget? I am more than
    familiar in the sense that I have the military construction
    part of the appropriations with Senator Murray, and we run into
    these problems all the time. Do you have any suggestions for
    us?
        General Spellmon. Yes, sir. First, we are changing the way
    we report cost estimates, both to the Secretary and to
    Congress. You will see that in this next report of Chief's
    reports that come before you for WRDA 2024.
        In the past, we have done a design through the midpoint of
    construction, and we come back and tell Congress and Secretary
    Connor with three decimal points what we think it is going to
    cost. We are going to continue to do that. The law requires it.
    We are also going to give you a range of the potential costs
    and the assumptions that go into our cost estimates.
        Sir, we are doing a lot internally to the Corps to get
    after this. We are not the only construction agency dealing
    with this. You have our commitment to continue to work.
        Mr. Connor. Can I just add real quickly? I think one
    option, the Corps, as General Spellmon mentioned, is doing a
    lot of actions to improve the cost estimating process.
        One of the things we can do is improve design maturity.
    That means applying more resources early on to do some of the
    in-depth work and design that we need, so we can go with, in
    the 3x3x3 processes or the 5x3x3, where we can do more work
    early on, get to 20 percent, 25 percent design maturity as
    opposed to 15 percent. That will help solidify cost estimates.
        We have been having good discussions with committee staff
    about that. I think that is an important item.
        Senator Boozman. Let us know how we can help. I think that
    is something the entire committee agrees with, how we can be
    more effective. Thank you.
        Senator Carper. Senator Boozman, thanks.
        Senator Merkley, thanks for your patience and you are
    recognized. In the on-deck circle is Senator Mullin.
        Senator Merkley. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    Secretary Connor, and General Spellmon, it is great to see you
    both.
        Before I ask questions, I want to commend the work of the
    Corps in the Portland District Office in advancing the Portland
    Metro Levee System. It is a 27-mile levee system along the
    Columbia River.
        General Spellmon, you were the commanding general of the
    Northwest Division when the project got underway. It would be
    great to see that project come full circle by getting into the
    construction phase. I look forward to working with you to see
    that happen. Thank you.
        The Cole Rivers Hatchery, named for an individual, not for
    a river, the Cole Rivers Hatchery is on the Rogue River. It
    plays an absolutely critical role. Colonel Michael Helton, now
    retired, went down with me. When we came to the recognition of
    how many different Native fish populations and different rivers
    that it provide, and also rainbow trout for various lakes, and
    the hatchery is in great trouble because of the lack of clean
    water and disease that could shut down the hatchery, and just
    kind of 30 years of wear and tear.
        Restoring that hatchery to its full functionality is
    incredibly important. The Army Corps, to do so, needs to
    identify significant need capability for this project.
        Do you commit to working with the Portland District and my
    staff and with me in identifying as much capability as possible
    or restoring the Cole Rivers Hatchery?
        General Spellmon. Yes, sir.
        Senator Merkley. Thank you very much.
        I want to turn to tribal housing on the Columbia River.
    When the dams were built on the Columbia River, the town for
    Caucasians that was inundated was rebuilt, but the villages,
    the Native villages, were never rebuilt.
        We have been working intensely to try to create, well,
    right that wrong, from now three quarters of a century ago. The
    Army Corps released last month the implementation plan for the
    village development plans for the tribes.
        What timeline do you expect to reach the implementation
    phase of the plan and begin construction on housing?
        General Spellmon. Yes, sir. I would just start off my
    response by saying we are at a much better place than we were
    five or 6 years ago when we stopped off on this effort. We were
    trying to combine the tribes into one consolidated village.
        The direction we are going now are separate sites for each
    of the tribes. We are in the process now of identifying the
    needs and the potential locations, which bank, what site, so
    that we can get on with the village development plans.
        We are about 6 months into the real eState, culling down
    what the options are, and then we will be able to get into more
    meaningful discussions on the specifics of each one of those
    villages. Sir, we have the resources we need, and we are in a
    much better place with the impacted tribes than we have ever
    been in the past.
        Senator Merkley. I really appreciate that observation. All
    the easy-to-develop land has been developed along both sides of
    the north bank and the south bank of the river, which means it
    will never be easy to find these sites. They will be expensive;
    they will be difficult to provide infrastructure. It is so
    important that we address this situation, the legacy wrong that
    we need to right.
        By the way, the Confederated Tribes of the Warm Springs
    Reservation and the Confederated Tribes of the Umatilla
    Reservation have expressed optimism and appreciation for the
    level of engagement they have had with the Army Corps at this
    point. You are all really doing a great job. I am very much
    impressed by what you have done and I understand you are
    planning to continue regular engagement with the tribes.
        General Spellmon. Yes, sir, that is correct.
        Senator Merkley. Thank you. In particular, the tribes have
    noted the Corps is further along on the displacement
    assessments for the Bonneville and Dalles Dam pools. Will you
    also work to expedite the displacement assessment for the John
    Day and McNary pools?
        General Spellmon. Yes, sir.
        Senator Merkley. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr.
    Chairman.
        Senator Carper. I am struck by the range of issues that
    have been brought up here. I am glad you guys are doing your
    homework, and more questions to follow.
        Next is Senator Mullin, and in the on-deck circle, Senator
    Fetterman, my neighbor in Pennsylvania.
        Senator Mullin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Senator Boozman
    took most of my questions, talking about the MKARNS. It is both
    vitally important to our States. I just want to throw some fun
    facts out there. I get the MKARNS sometimes gets overlooked,
    because it is not a huge waterway, it is not as big as Ohio and
    Mississippi and people just honestly forget about it. When we
    tell people that we have an inland water port in Oklahoma, a
    few are like, what?
        When you really start talking about the facts, here you
    have a navigational channel that is 445 miles long, it is the
    largest and farthest inland water port in the United States.
    During the winter months, it contributes to over 50 percent of
    all ag products moving in and out of western States, Midwest.
    During the summer months, it operates over 50 percent of all
    the ag products leaving Kansas, Oklahoma, and 40 percent of
    Nebraska.
        Just in Oklahoma alone, it employs 11,000 people just on
    the navigational channel. It creates $1.6 billion of economic
    impact yearly. I say all this because we have 18 locks on that
    port, you heard Senator Boozman talk about the depth that we
    need increased, from 9 feet to 12 feet, which will be a 40
    percent increase.
        Right now we have so much barge traffic we can not increase
    it anymore. All the products that I just named would actually
    increase, if we just went from 9 feet to 12 feet, a 40 percent
    increase in products being brought up and down.
        At the same time, when I first got into office, we had a
    $60 million backlog of critical backlog needs. Today, sir, we
    are over $600 million of critical backlogs needs. Let me
    explain what critical backlog means. It means it has a 50-50
    chance of failing any time, any time it can shut down.
        We can lose those whole navigational channel, but
    priorities keep switching, and we keep getting farther and
    farther and farther behind. Every year, we are not catching up,
    we are getting behind.
        I just ask the question, what are we doing about the
    critical backlog need? General Spellmon. Sir, a great question,
    and those numbers are correct. Congress is helping us
    immensely. Of that $600 million backlog, we received $463
    million in 2022 and 2023 to get after longstanding O&M, and we
    are in the President's budget for another $112 million.
        Sir, I will just throw some additional numbers at you.
        Senator Mullin. That is across all your navigational
    channels.
        General Spellmon. No, sir.
        Senator Mullin. That is just for MKARNS?
        General Spellmon. That is for MKARNS. The numbers are,
    there are 18 locks and dams, but on those projects, sir, you
    have 225 miter gates that all need work, Tainter gates, 36
    miter gates and we are working through what we call 110-foot
    stoplog conversations. That is a lot of money, that is a lot of
    effort. We appreciate the investment and are working hard
    through the qualified labor to get these projects in the
    ground.
        Senator Mullin. Do you know how far behind we are on that,
    then? I mean, like, if we allotted the money, how long is it
    going to take you to get caught up?
        General Spellmon. Sir, I would like to get with both
    districts, and I can come back to you with an accurate
    response.
        Senator Mullin. Okay. I appreciate, I know we all have our
    own issues here, and I do appreciate that, I will say what the
    Chairman said, your depth of knowledge is quite remarkable, and
    the fact that you came that prepared really excites me.
        Anything that I can do to be helpful. Have you been at
    MKARNS?
        General Spellmon. Several times, yes, sir.
        Senator Mullin. Next time you go, make sure that I get the
    opportunity to visit with you, because I would love to take a
    ride down that navigation channel and maybe one of the locks.
    It is remarkable what they are doing with an old system and how
    they are keeping it going. Those guys that work on those locks
    are absolutely impressive.
        General Spellmon. Very innovative, yes, sir.
        Senator Mullin. Very much. Thank you. I yield back.
        Senator Carper. All right, thank you.
        Next is Senator Fetterman. Senator Fetterman, welcome. Good
    to see you. In the on-deck circle is Senator Sullivan.
        Senator Fetterman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Hello, welcome. There is no reason why you would know this,
    but I live in western Pennsylvania. One of the great things
    that your organization has done is the Braddock Locks and Dam.
    Perhaps you might be familiar with that.
        The work that the Army Corps has done on the Mon and Ohio
    Rivers has really put things in motion for another 100 years of
    commerce in western Pennsylvania. I take every opportunity to
    praise your organization's work. I am grateful, so thank you.
        Now I am excited to be working with Chair Carper and
    Ranking Member Capito to ensure that the WRDA bill includes
    priorities that are critical to Pennsylvania's infrastructure.
        The first priority I want to ask you today is about acid
    mine drainage. People may not know the term, but Pennsylvania
    sees that impact when their rivers might turn bright orange in
    a very shocking kind of shade. If often will be fish kills.
        One watershed in Pennsylvania, the Tioga River Watershed,
    has water acidic as vinegar. They will be needing the kind of
    investment of more than $60 million to clean the drainage and
    to bring back life to that ecosystem.
        This is not just in Pennsylvania's problem. There are other
    States as well that have these kinds of challenges.
        Sir, if you had a pre-dedicated program for acid mine
    drainage, how could the Corps assist communities that need
    technical and financial help with this problem?
        General Spellmon. Yes, sir, I will start. First, I want to
    acknowledge the water quality issues. Our teams are very
    familiar with that. In the past, we have been using public
    assistance to States or Section 206 in the CAP program. You run
    into some funding limits with each one of those, sir, so you
    are correct. I think a specific authority to actually get after
    this challenge would greatly enable the Corps to get after the
    scope of everything you have just described.
        Senator Fetterman. Would you peg that amount of $60
    million, is that too much, too low, kind of Goldilocks?
        General Spellmon. Sir, I do not know the value. I know the
    scope of the problem; I just can not monetize it.
        Senator Fetterman. All right, thank you.
        I am also working to ensure the commercial future of the
    Allegheny River. If we are going to make things happen in
    western Pennsylvania, we need the Allegheny River to be open
    for business.
        Right now, there is a risk for operational hours being
    reduced. Along with my colleague and friend, Senator Casey, I
    have proposed language to help us find a path forward for
    Allegheny County to keep lockage levels and service steady
    until we do.
        Lieutenant General Spellmon, you affirmed to my office that
    you would evaluate the economic impacts before considering a
    decrease on these service levels. Would that evaluation include
    the long-term to current commerce in the region if the lock
    hours were threatened or reduced?
        General Spellmon. Yes, sir, you are correct. This is in
    regard to the eight locks and dams that we have on the
    Allegheny River. The economic analysis that I mentioned in the
    previous hearing, that is based on a 3-year average of both
    commercial and recreation lockage that we do at each of those
    eight facilities. In other words, we let the commerce dictate
    the level of service that we have at each one of those locks,
    not vice versa.
        Today, Lock and Dam 2 and the C.W. Bill Young Lock and Dam,
    they are the busiest, and we have two 10-hour shifts per day
    passing that traffic. Lock and Dam 4 and 5, a little bit less
    traffic, so they have one 10-hour shift. Locks 6 through 9,
    those upper 4, much, much less commercial traffic, so we
    operate those by appointment only.
        Sir, we will increase that level of service. It is all
    based on the traffic that we are seeing.
        Senator Fetterman. Finally, is it fair to say that you are
    willing to commit to work with my office to increase
    utilization and maintenance of service?
        General Spellmon. Yes, sir.
        Senator Fetterman. All right, thank you. I cede the
    remaining time back to the Chair.
        Senator Carper. Thanks, Senator Fetterman.
        Senator Sullivan, I said you were in the on-deck circle,
    but we have two colleagues who got here earlier today and had
    to leave. Under the rules I need to recognize them first. Bear
    with us, please.
        Senator Kelly, you are recognized first.
        Senator Kelly. Mr. Chairman, I did not check in.
        Senator Carper. Senator Ricketts, you are recognized.
    Pardon me.
        Senator Ricketts. Thank you, Chairman Carper, and thank
    you, Ranking Member Capito, for holding today's hearing. I want
    to thank Lieutenant General Spellmon and Mr. Connor for joining
    us here as well.
        I am grateful for the improving partnership between my
    State and the Corps, and am hopeful of projects that we can
    complete moving forward to be able to serve Nebraskans. This
    March marks the 5-years since the blizzard and flooding that
    was the most widespread natural disaster in our State's
    history. As Governor at the time, I saw first-hand how this
    once in a 500-year flood claimed lives and caused billions of
    dollars in damages across my State.
        That is why for me the No. 1 priority with the Army Corps
    is flood prevention. Last year 10 months ago, you were here and
    we were discussing the permitting timelines and the outliers. I
    want to make sure that Nebraskans impacted by mistakes in the
    past get answers and that we do not make the same mistakes
    again.
        I know the permitting delay which led to the flooding at
    Offutt Air Force Base involved many circumstances, and I
    appreciate your office getting back to us with some of the
    information around that, and certainly demonstrated there was
    plenty of opportunity all around to be able to improve that. I
    think the Army Corps itself admitted that this was an outlier
    project.
        When we spoke last year, you pointed to the fact that Corps
    districts are given discretion to expedite reviews where
    appropriate.
        General Spellmon, what steps have you taken to prioritize
    and ensure the completion of some of these outlier projects?
    The one I just referenced, Offutt Air Force Base, took 6 years
    to get the permit. What steps have you taken to be able to
    address some of those outlier projects?
        General Spellmon. Sir, I think, if I can come back to that,
    outlier. I do not believe that one was an outlier. I would
    disagree with that characterization of it.
        We are, and I mentioned earlier in the hearing that we are
    taking advantage of funding that you in Congress have given us,
    particularly in the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. We have
    hired an additional 160 regulators for our districts, and we
    are on our way to 200.
        Sir, we have new tools in place, a regulatory viewer system
    that allows our regulators to make more efficient decisions in
    the field, when they are out there with their partners walking
    the ground on these respective projects. As I said, we have
    done 15,000 Section 404 and Section 10 permits to date this
    fiscal year. We are up to about 78 percent on time. That is a
    slight increase from last year, but we will take that, and we
    are going to continue to push on this very important program.
        Senator Ricketts. I am curious, you said you disagree with
    the notion that it was an outlier project. My recollection is
    you said that most of your permits get down to like 18 months,
    isn't that right?
        General Spellmon. No, sir. This was a Section 408 request.
    We typically turn those around within 90 days. The project you
    mentioned, I am sorry, we do tens of thousands of these each
    year, so I do not have them all committed to memory. This one
    started in 2010.
        The applicant brought in an engineering firm; we didn't
    actually have an application until 2013 in the Omaha District.
    We received the application; it had a number of technical
    shortcomings. We received it in May, and we gave it back to the
    applicant in August. Senator, we didn't hear from that
    applicant again for 2 years. Then when we got it back, we were
    able to get it----
        Senator Ricketts. Well, that is kind of my point, is that
    it is an outlier, because it is one that took longer than your
    normal process. Is that not accurate?
        General Spellmon. An outlier because 5 years of the 6-years
    you described were with the applicant, not with the Corps.
        Senator Ricketts. Right, but Okay, so isn't that an
    opportunity to be able to get back to the applicant and say,
    hey, what is taking so long to close this out? That is why I
    say this took an extraordinarily long time. Like I said, there
    is an opportunity on everybody to be able to improve.
        I think one of the areas that Army Corps could improve is
    by saying, hey, 2 years is a long time. Are you guys going to
    respond back to us or not so we can close this case?
        General Spellmon. No, sir, you gave it wrong. We were
    waiting on the applicant to get back to us on the technical
    questions.
        Senator Ricketts. That is what I am saying, getting back to
    the applicant and saying, why have not you responded back to
    us? You asked for this permit, do you want it done or not?
        General Spellmon. We did. We got it in May. We returned it
    around August. They did hear back from us, and then they went
    dry for 2 years.
        Senator Ricketts. That is my point. When you have somebody
    who is in your process, flagging that they have not responded
    back for 2 years and maybe circling back.
        General Spellmon. Sure. We can potentially look at that,
    Senator. Absolutely.
        Senator Ricketts. That would be one, or shutting down the
    process and saying, hey, we are actually not going forward,
    then you can actually take it off your books. That would help
    you out as well, right?
        General Spellmon. Absolutely.
        Senator Ricketts. All right, well, let me shift views on
    you just a moment. Following the issue of the final WOTUS Rule,
    did your headquarters give an internal guidance to Corps
    districts in September 2023 on implementing the rule, which
    includes issues on assessing whether certain features like arid
    west drainages are relatively permanent?
        General Spellmon. Sir, there has been a series of guidance
    that has gone out to the field following the 8 September 2023
    rule from Sackett.
        Senator Ricketts. Is this one where you instructed them not
    to make that guidance public?
        General Spellmon. I am not familiar with not making things
    public, sir. We are working hard to be open and transparent,
    Senator.
        Mr. Connor. That is more on my office.
        Senator Ricketts. Can you enlighten me on this one?
        Mr. Connor. Yes, absolutely. The guidance we provided in
    September post the Sackett decisions was merely to represent
    how we were going to work through processes of making
    jurisdictional determinations with our counterparts at EPA.
    That is an elevation memo to describe the process, because we
    knew there would be questions coming down.
        We have not issued any guidance specifically in more
    detailed interpretation than what we did in the conforming rule
    that got published on September 8th.
        Senator Ricketts. Help me understand this. You issued this
    as internal guidance, is that accurate?
        Mr. Connor. Internal guidance, but it is out there, it is
    available for anybody to see. It is published.
        Senator Ricketts. You have published this? It is public,
    you have published it?
        Mr. Connor. That is correct.
        Senator Ricketts. Applicants would have access to this
    guidance from September 2023 with regard to their application?
        Mr. Connor. It is procedural guidance, but we are happy to
    share it with anybody. I believe it is on the websites.
        Senator Ricketts. Great. Thank you very much. Thank you,
    Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Carper. Senator Capito has to leave, and she has
    asked to ask another question. Go right ahead, please.
        Senator Capito. One question, apologies to those I am
    jumping in front of.
        General Spellmon, you mentioned the challenges posed by the
    social cost of carbon to project development. Has the
    interagency working group consulted you in the development of
    those figures? Have you had any input or conversations with
    them about this?
        General Spellmon. Ma'am, I could followup specifically, at
    what level in the field where we are doing many of these
    pipeline EISs, to what level we are engaging with that group. I
    have not had any personal interaction.
        Senator Capito. Okay. We have been trying to find out how
    these costs are calculated and what the cost is. While you are
    looking at that, could you find out what figures you are using?
    Are they the same ones that the EPA is using in these
    regulations? Have you committed to the interagency working
    group that the social cost of carbon is hindering your ability
    to meet your statutory guidelines under the NEPA process that
    we put into effect?
        General Spellmon. I think I understand the question, ma'am.
    All of our calculations are in the draft EISs and all the
    regulatory products that we produce when we go through the NEPA
    process. It is all there for the public to see.
        Senator Capito. Okay, so you have a cost assigned there? Do
    you know what dollar figure they are using as a social cost of
    carbon? There is a dollar figure associated with this, right?
        Mr. Connor. There is a dollar figure.
        Senator Capito. What is that? Do you know?
        Mr. Connor. I do not have that. I would be happy to respond
    about our interactions with the interagency group as well as
    the specifics.
        Senator Capito. Okay. Then last thing, questions for the
    record, I want to submit a question on the hold and save
    clause. Thank you both.
        Senator Carper. Without objection.
        Senator Carper. All right, Senator Stabenow was here at the
    beginning of the hearing, and she has come back. I am going to
    let her go ahead of you, Senator Sullivan, if you will bear
    with us. You will get to go ahead of Senator Kelly. It is kind
    of interesting, we have a Marine over here, just retired as a
    full colonel, great career, and we have a Navy captain over
    here and one there and the Army out here. Any Air Force out
    there? The services are represented.
        Senator Stabenow, you are recognized. Thanks for coming
    back.
        Senator Stabenow. Thank you, Mr. Chair. As we all do, I am
    attempting to be in two hearings at the same time this morning.
    Checking into both, and I am glad to be back. I appreciate it
    so much, and appreciate our witnesses today. Good morning. It
    is good to see you.
        Not surprising, the issues I want to talk about. I
    appreciate so much partnering with you.
        Let me start with the big ongoing issue, Mr. Connor and
    Lieutenant General Spellmon, that we have been working on
    together, which is the Soo Locks. As you know, in the last
    WRDA, we secured the authorization necessary to complete the
    Soo Locks project.
        Let me just say to my colleagues, this is a major
    infrastructure project that is key to moving raw materials,
    agriculture products, finished goods through the St. Lawrence
    Seaway into the Great Lakes and throughout our Country. It is a
    critical, critical infrastructure project.
        We know from the Department of Homeland Security economic
    impact statement that a 6-month unscheduled shutdown of the
    locks, heaven forbid, we have one lock that is working, would
    cost 11 million jobs, 11 million jobs and reduce our GDP by
    $1.1 trillion. This is a big project.
        We got the authorization, but we have to have the funding,
    which is what we have been working on, to match it. We worked
    together last year, we programmed our Army Corps dollars to
    ensure that we had the funding necessary for the next steps. I
    am so incredibly grateful for your partnership on this, because
    we have kept it going, now the stakes are even higher. Keeping
    the project on track starts with the President's budget, meet
    the Soo's full 2025 funding capability.
        To both of you, Mr. Connor, General Spellmon, can I count
    on you continued support to get this over the finish line,
    starting with the President's 2025 budget request?
        Mr. Connor. Senator, thank you very much. For all the
    reasons you just mentioned, it is a high priority, as you know,
    as we went through the process to ensure in a continuing
    resolution that we could still make a contract option so that
    we can keep the project moving forward and try and minimize
    additional cost increases, we are fully committed to moving
    forward.
        The good news is on discussions about Soo Locks, we engage
    everybody at the highest level of this government, not just in
    the Army Civil Works Program, but at the White House and OMB.
    We are committed to working through all these issues and
    continue to support the project.
        Senator Stabenow. Terrific.
        General Spellmon. You have our commitment. This is a
    project of national significance, for everything Mr. Connor
    just said. We have great momentum, and we have $235 million in
    the President's budget. We are looking forward to getting that
    so we can keep that momentum going.
        Senator Stabenow. That is music to my ears. It is so
    important to be able to get that done.
        Let me also ask, on another topic, Mr. Connor, you and I
    talk about a lot, which is Brandon Road. There is this thing
    called invasive carp that wants to get into our Great Lakes,
    Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Carper. One of my relatives.
        Senator Stabenow. Yes, right, invasive Tom Carp.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Stabenow. We have these fish that we have been
    looking for every way possible technically to hold these fish
    out of the Great Lakes who are destroying the fishing
    ecosystems and basically the economy in many ways, and have
    found technically how to do that.
        Now it is taking years to get to the point, how do you
    allow barges up the river without the fish coming up the river?
    Here we are right now in a situation where we are at a critical
    point, as you know. We have the technology, we have actually
    got the funding, but we are in a step-by-step, day-to-day step
    right now because of a project partnership agreement that has
    not been signed.
        I am asking you this, even though I know that our friends
    in Illinois, the State of Illinois needs to do this, and the
    State of Michigan is working with them now to get this now.
        Do I have your commitment to do everything in your power to
    make sure that we can get this PPA signed as soon as possible
    to get the construction going?
        Mr. Connor. Senator, you absolutely have my commitment.
    Everything within our power to try and move this forward, to
    accommodate the issues raised by the State of Illinois, we are
    willing to do. If I thought going to Springfield and sitting in
    the office and working through issues would be helpful, I would
    do that, because the project is as important as you reference.
        There are issues that have been raised, and of course,
    those discussions that are outside of our authority. Congress
    has already adjusted cost share. We can not unilaterally go any
    further than what Congress has already gone.
        I appreciate the need to move forward. I do also appreciate
    that. It is my understanding the State of Michigan is now
    actively working with the State of Illinois.
        Senator Stabenow. Yes.
        Mr. Connor. Anything I can do or the Chief can do to
    facilitate those discussions and get us to a PPA so that we can
    use the $250 million that we have available to start that
    project, we are willing to do.
        Senator Stabenow. Terrific. Let me just say that cost
    shares and the issue, I know Senator Duckworth, a great member
    of this committee, and I are both interested in the next WRDA
    bill to be addressing that for the States.
        Quickly, I know I am out of time, Mr. Chairman, but one
    idea that the State partners raised that I just wanted to get a
    quick response on was expediting the project timeline by our
    allowing that remediation work be carried out at the same time
    of construction.
        What makes sense to me for remediating something in terms
    of, we think there are going to be some issues on some land,
    doing that while we are doing construction, if it saves money,
    if it saves time, does that makes sense for us to make sure you
    can do that?
        General Spellmon. Senator, it makes absolute sense. We run
    into this on many Civil Works projects. We believe there is
    some potential legislation that could help us, even in this
    upcoming WRDA, to help us get after that.
        Senator Stabenow. I think it is really important, Mr.
    Chairman. I hope we can do that. Thank you.
        Senator Carper. Good. Thank you, Senator Stabenow.
        Senator Sullivan, thank you for your patience. You are
    recognized.
        Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        I want to compliment both the witnesses today, Mr.
    Secretary, General. I think you guys are doing a great job. I
    think your responsiveness and understanding of all the
    different questions here has been very impressive. Thanks very
    much.
        I want to dig into some of the big projects in the great
    State of Alaska. As I like to say, we are a resource rich but
    infrastructure poor State. Alaska has less road miles than
    Connecticut, and we are almost 120 times bigger than
    Connecticut. Mr. Chairman, just for your information, we have
    about twice as many roads than Delaware has, but we are 264
    times bigger than Delaware.
        We have a lot of catching up to do.
        Senator Carper. I would like to say we are still growing,
    but actually, as sea level rises, it is not looking good.
        Senator Sullivan. The first one will not surprise either of
    you. Mr. Secretary, you have been great on this. This is the
    Donlin 404 permits. I just literally had a great meeting in
    D.C. with the leaders from the Calista Native Corporation, what
    we call the YK Delta region, Yukon Kuskokwim region. By the
    way, this is one of the poorest regions in the world, I am
    sorry, in America. Great Americans there, of course, our Alaska
    Native people principally.
        As usual, we have what our Native people, what we refer to
    as the eco-colonialists. These are Lower 48 environmental
    groups that do not give a damn about the Native people. They
    come up, they file lawsuits trying to tell the Native people
    what is good for them. Eco-colonialists. We have a lot of eco-
    colonialists coming trying to hurt these communities.
        As you know, this one is now fronted by Earth Justice, the
    latest eco-colonialists trying to harm Native people in Alaska.
    They have worked on this, going after this 404 permit that is
    now almost 6 years old that you guys have provided. I just want
    to once again get your commitment, of course you have to meet
    with these eco-colonialists, I understand, but not to reopen
    the Donlin 404 permit, and if there is litigation, to defend
    it. Six years, coming back and trying to reopen something after
    6 years, to me does not, that is not the rule of law. That
    turns us into like a banana republic, like Venezuela or
    something like that.
        Can I get both of your commitments? Mr. Secretary, you have
    given me this commitment a million times, I literally was asked
    by the great people of the region, when they heard I had this
    hearing tomorrow, to ask once again. I said I will.
        By the way, the EPA Administrator has been great on this,
    too. He said we are not reopening it. Can I get your commitment
    once again?
        Mr. Connor. Senator, I always appreciate the opportunity to
    have a conversation with you to reiterate my commitment. I know
    there are Alaska Natives on both sides of the issue.
        Senator Sullivan. Not many on the other side, trust me. I
    represent them. This has been driven by the eco-colonialists. I
    represent the Alaska Native people; the vast majority are
    supportive.
        Mr. Connor. We have no basis to revisit that permit right
    now.
        Senator Sullivan. General?
        General Spellmon. Sir, General Gibbs and Colonel Palazzini
    talked to all of these groups. There is no intention to revisit
    any of the permits that have been made.
        Senator Sullivan. Thank you. Let me just go to two other
    projects, big ones, that you guys have just done a great job
    on. We had this district partnership, project partnership
    agreement that I actually went to the signing of, the North
    Slope Borough for the Barrow, now called Utqiavik Coastal
    Erosion Project.
        Then the project partnership agreement for the Port of
    Nome, Nome Expansion Project. These are funded, significantly,
    thanks to all of you and the Congress. They are still going to
    likely need continued funding.
        Can I get both of your commitments to not just, to make
    sure that once we get two-thirds of the way through, that we
    continue to get that funding? We will work on it. They are both
    very strategic. The Port of Nome, as you know, General, is
    really strategic. I was just down in an Armed Services hearing,
    you had this joint Russian-Chinese Naval Task Force off the
    coast of Alaska again this summer, 12 ships, probing our
    territory, America's territory. We need a place where we can
    put Navy ships, ice breakers, in the Arctic, and the Port of
    Nome is going to be able to do that.
        Can I get your commitment on both of those? They are good
    projects coming along well. The partnership, the project
    partnership agreements that you guys have signed with the North
    Slope Borough, with the community of Nome, have just been
    great. I want to compliment you both again.
        Mr. Connor. Senator, you are correct, they are good
    projects. I think it is instructive that we know so much about
    where The Rock is in Alaska, to try and manage the cost of
    these projects. Yes, you have our commitment.
        Senator Sullivan. The Rock, as you know, could be local.
    That is going to reduce the cost.
        General?
        General Spellmon. Yes, sir. I have been to both of these
    projects, and you have our commitment. These are important and
    we want to finish what we start.
        Senator Sullivan. Great. Let me ask, Mr. Chairman, real
    quick, it actually relates to Senator Kelly, since I know he is
    next. Senator Kelly and I are going to be introducing
    legislation soon, our staffs are working together, on this
    issue of contaminated lands for Native Americans.
        It is a little bit different in Arizona than it is in
    Alaska, but as both of you know, the Alaska Native Claims
    Settlement Act, the Federal Government gave Congress, or
    Congress provided 44 million acres of land to the Native
    people, set up our regional corporations. Biggest indigenous
    peoples settlement probably in the history of the world,
    certainly in the history of America. Mr. Chairman, you have
    been a great champion of this.
        A lot of that land was contaminated. The Federal Government
    was like, here you go, Alaska Natives, here is your land. Oh,
    by the way, it is all polluted. Pretty bad. The Chairman was
    great on a bill of mine a couple of years ago where we said,
    hey, at a minimum, CERCLA, Comprehensive Environmental
    Response, Compensation, and Liability Act, does not require,
    you know, you can not sue these Native corporations under the
    Federal Government. The Federal Government actually gave them
    polluted land. We fixed that idea and liability, which of
    course made sense.
        We are working on some innovative cleanup ideas. I just
    want to continue to work with your offices on the technical
    assistance that we need to bring our bill forward, hopefully
    get it into the WRDA bill, that would provide remediation
    efforts outside of the usual wetlands mitigation bank idea.
        This would be the idea of hey, go to clean up Alaska Native
    or Arizona tribal lands as part of a mitigation effort that is
    innovative. Look, in terms of the pollution in Alaska, the
    Federal Government is unlikely to be able to clean all that up.
    It is literally in the billions.
        We are trying to find innovative solutions. This committee
    has done a really good job on addressing this in a bipartisan
    way. Senator Kelly and I, like I said, are working on it.
        Can I get your commitment to continue to work with my
    office, Senator Kelly's office, on some of these innovative
    solutions, to do what we all want, which is cleanup the lands
    of our first peoples in this Country? By the way, great
    patriotic Americans. They serve at higher rates in the military
    than any other ethnic group in the Country.
        Mr. Connor. Absolutely, you have my commitment. We need
    innovative ideas, and when we can restore the environment and
    take care of Native American issues, all the better.
        General Spellmon. Senator, we do a lot of cleanup, 1950
    Area Atomic Energy Commission Nuclear Waste Cleanup across the
    Country, a lot of work on formerly utilized defense sites. A
    lot of experienced staff in this area, and we are looking
    forward to working with you on the text.
        Senator Sullivan. Great. Thank you. Thank you, Mr.
    Chairman.
        Senator Carper. You are welcome.
        Senator Kelly?
        Senator Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, thank you, Senator
    Sullivan. To expand a little bit on that, in Alaska and
    Arizona, clearly different, we have a lot of the same issues,
    though. Ours happen to be like arsenic in the water. I had a
    Hopi tribal member in my office just this morning, and he was
    talking specifically about the water he has access to has
    arsenic in it.
        We have over 500 abandoned uranium mines on the Navajo
    Nation. The Havasupai Tribe's water is under threat of being
    contaminated. We have multiple issues, and this legislation can
    go a long way to helping solve those.
        On a separate topic, I want to talk to you about managed
    aquifer recharge. I do not easily get frustrated. More than a
    year after WRDA 2022 was signed into law, the Corps still
    hasn't issued guidance to explain how non-Federal sponsors can
    partner with the Corps to carry out managed aquifer recharge
    projects. This was authorized under Section 8108 of WRDA 2022.
        As both of you may recall, this provision authorized three
    things. One, it required that the Corps carry out a national
    assessment on how to carry out aquifer recharge projects. No.
    2, it required the Corps to establish a working group on
    managed aquifer recharge best practices. Three, it authorized
    the Corps to carry out managed aquifer recharge projects with
    non-Federal sponsors.
        Now, as somebody who has championed these provisions, I
    want to note that all three of these are important, but the
    provisions are not intended to be implemented independently.
    Mr. Connor, I noted you said in your testimony that the working
    group would take longer to stand up because it will be
    considered an advisory committee.
        That does not explain why the Corps hasn't issued
    implementation guidance explaining how Army Corps districts can
    partner with local sponsors to carry out managed aquifer
    recharge projects as required in WRDA.
        This delay is having real consequences. In Arizona, the
    city of Tucson reached out to the L.A. District nearly 6 months
    ago. They have identified a project that would be a perfect
    match for this program. It would construct new groundwater
    recharge facilities and expand riparian habitat protection at
    the base of what is called A Mountain in the city of Tucson.
        Once constructed, this project could help the city of
    Tucson save 4,000 acre-feet of water a year. Look, time is of
    the essence here for Arizona. We are in a drought that has gone
    on for 20 years, it is the worst drought in 1,200 years. We had
    a good snow pack on the Colorado River last winter, so we had a
    wet winter. It has been wet in Tucson. Last winter, it was
    looking pretty good this winter.
        If we stand up groundwater recharge facilities quickly, we
    can build more resilience in what will certainly be a dry year
    next year or the year after. It is critical to get this
    guidance and begin work on these groundwater recharge projects,
    especially in drought-stricken cities.
        Mr. Connor, when do you expect implementation guidance will
    be issued for the feasibility study portion of the Managed
    Aquifer Recharge Program, which is Section 8108(b)? Why is this
    taking so long?
        Mr. Connor. Senator, two quick points. The implementation
    guidance is still being drafted at this point in time. I will
    commit to you to go and personally see what I can do to move it
    as quickly as possible, so that we can move forward with that
    project. I agree with you, we want to be assisting these
    communities with respect to managed aquifer recharge.
        The second point I would make is we are not waiting,
    though, to look for opportunities to support managed aquifer
    recharge. We are funding it through EI programs, Kyrene in your
    State, southern California, we are doing the same thing. We are
    also managing facilities differently such as Prado Dam in
    southern California, where we are making releases differently
    of floodwater so it can be picked up by the local water
    district and put into their managed aquifer recharge system.
        Any opportunities, and I think we are doing the same thing
    at Lake Roosevelt now, trying to finish an EA to work with your
    water program in your State. We want to move forward,
    notwithstanding the guidance. I understand the guidance is
    important. I will personally go back and see how quickly we can
    get that.
        Senator Kelly. I appreciate your doing that. When you say,
    as soon as possible, what do you think that means? When can we
    get that implementation guidance? Or maybe, General, you could
    add to that.
        General Spellmon. Sir, we are not waiting on implementation
    guidance. We are already implementing this in the field. I will
    followup on the projects in Arizona.
        We need three things. At the Corps project, we need a water
    supply or water conservation authority. Our non-Federal
    sponsors typically will conduct a retention basin below the
    dam. The most important thing we need is the water.
        The first time we saw this in California, it was early
    2023, and we were able to make this use. We can move out with
    the guidance that we have, and I will followup with my team on
    the projects you mentioned in Arizona.
        Senator Kelly. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Carper. Thank you, Senator Kelly.
        Senator Markey, welcome back. We are glad you are here.
        Senator Markey. Full attendance today at this committee, so
    you can see how this seniority system works. You have to get in
    line.
        Our flood management policy has historically failed to
    protect Black, Brown and low-income communities. Instead, we
    have prioritized communities with the most expensive real
    eState and the highest incomes. This injustice is particularly
    worrisome at this moment with climate change increasing, the
    risks of extreme storms and flooding, in the very communities
    that have been ignored and unprotected over the past century.
        Many communities in my home State of Massachusetts are
    facing these very same risks today. Leominster, for example,
    experienced weeks' worth of rain in just a few hours last
    September. Along the coast, communities like Dorchester,
    Chelsea, East Boston, and Revere have high annual flood risks
    that are increasing each and every year.
        In the Merrimack Valley, extreme rain events have increased
    the likelihood of combined sewer overflows, which sends
    untreated stormwater and wastewater through gateway cities like
    Lowell, Lawrence, and Haverhill into the Merrimack River.
        In other words, the communities that are already most
    vulnerable will see a sea at their doorstep first. Secretary
    Connor, by the way, thank you for your great work, thank you,
    sir, for your great work as well. Do you agree that the Army
    Corps must ensure that Black, Brown and low-income communities
    receive equitable investment from the Corps?
        Mr. Connor. Senator, great question. Yes, I absolutely
    agree, and we are taking a number of actions that I can
    articulate if you would like me to.
        Senator Markey. If you can in maybe a minute, give us the
    highlights.
        Mr. Connor. Highlights, as the Chairman just mentioned, we
    are moving forward with the rulemaking to implement the
    principles, requirements and guidelines. This is going to
    significantly change the Corps' planning process so that we
    look at maximizing benefits, public benefits, and we look at
    not just financial, but economic and social benefits, and treat
    communities more fairly and equitably. This will benefit rural
    communities, inner-city communities, as well as tribal
    communities.
        We need to broaden the reach of the Corps. It is God-awful
    to say agency-specific procedures to implement PRNGs, but it is
    probably the most important institutionalizing approach that we
    will take here in the near term.
        There is also a number of pilot projects for economically
    disadvantaged communities to move forward to flood studies and
    100 percent Federal cost share to do smaller CAP, continuing
    authorities projects, for economically disadvantaged
    communities.
        Senator Markey. Thank you. I just want to highlight here
    that you have an environmental justice policy that you issued
    in March 2022. I want to congratulate you on that. Thank you
    for continuing that great work.
        In 2023, it was a devastating year for flooding along the
    Connecticut River in Massachusetts. Flooding impacted some of
    the poorest communities, gateway cities, many vulnerable
    farmers who keep us all fed, inspiring coalition of towns along
    the Connecticut River banding together to find a regional
    solution to this threat. They would greatly benefit from
    Federal support.
        In this upcoming Water Resources Development Act, which the
    Chairman and the Ranking Member are putting together, I am
    working to advance several Army Corps Connecticut River flood
    mitigation projects in communities like East Hampton and North
    Hampton, as well as a broader flood mitigation strategy for all
    the communities impacted by the flooding.
        General Spellmon, do you agree the Army Corps has an
    important role to play here to mitigate this regional flood
    risk posed by the Connecticut River?
        General Spellmon. Senator, yes. I would just acknowledge
    the incredible precipitation that your State has been
    receiving. Section 216, Review of Completed Civil Works
    Projects, would be the appropriate authority here. This system
    is 80 years old. It deserves a re-look. We have a provision
    already, 8156 in WRDA 2022, that allows us to move out on the
    Federal interest determination, Federal expense for the first
    $200,000, and we will seek those funds when we receive an
    appropriation in 2024, sir.
        Senator Markey. General, you know our rains have been
    biblical, just absolutely unbelievable.
        Secretary Connor, thank you for all your work on the Cape
    Cod bridges. I want to note that in the hearing. Much
    appreciated.
        Mr. Connor. Thank you for your leadership, sir.
        Senator Connor. Thank you, sir.
        Finally, quickly, I would also like to highlight an
    important project in North Adams, Massachusetts. In the 2022
    Water Resources Development Act, we successfully authorized a
    study to improve flood management of the Hoosic River. The
    river cuts through the center of this small city, North Adams,
    and endangers both lives and property. I would just encourage
    the Army Corps to dedicate the necessary funding to complete
    it.
        That is a request that I make to both of you. Thank you
    both. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Carper. Thanks for coming back and joining us, and
    for your persistence.
        Senator Cardin is recognized, and in the on-deck circle
    right now is Senator Whitehouse. Welcome. He is I think the
    16th member of our committee to be here. This might be a high
    water mark.
        Senator Cardin. This is one of our favorite hearings, I
    want you to know that. We all look forward to this. I
    apologize; I chair the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and
    we had to deal with Iran. I much prefer to deal with the Army
    Corps issues than Iran. Thank you for this hearing going on as
    long as it has gone on.
        This is really an opportunity for us to deal with some of
    the important issues. First, thank you. Mid-Bay is well
    underway as you all know, following up on Poplar Island, the
    environmental restoration. It is incredible how Poplar Island
    has been received, not just in our region, but around, I think
    literally the world, as a successful environmental restoration
    of a previously habitable island in the Chesapeake Bay that now
    has been restored, and the use of dredged materials. It is a
    beneficial use.
        The next is Mid-Bay. The good news is Mid-Bay, last year we
    got the funding to get it started. Thank you very much for the
    strong support that we had. Now we need to make sure that we
    followup with the construction dollars, because it is a multi-
    year effort.
        I thank again the Army Corps for all of its work in making
    this a reality. It is one of the great legacies of Senator
    Sarbanes in establishing this program. It is now being copied.
    Thank you very much.
        I want to go to one that we do need WRDA authorization on,
    and that is the Seagirt Loop Channel. That is critically
    important. I have watched as vessels try to maneuver getting in
    and out of the piers, and they are getting larger. It is a
    safety issue; it is a time issue.
        General Spellmon, could you just comment on the importance
    of the Seagirt Loop Channel to the commerce of our Port of
    Baltimore?
        General Spellmon. Yes, sir, it is incredibly important. We
    signed the Chief's report and it is up for Congress'
    consideration in WRDA 2024. This is a 50-foot deepening. What
    that is going to allow us to do is avoid these three-point
    turns that these large, post-Panamax vessels have to do, very
    risky to do.
        It is a very important project. In fact, we went there to
    roll out our 2023 budget. Secretary Connor and I go to
    different projects that are important to the Nation. We rolled
    out our 2023 budget from Seagirt. We look forward to getting
    into construction on that one, sir.
        Senator Cardin. Secretary Connor, welcome back any time. We
    will make sure if we get the loop fixed, we will be able to get
    our vessels in faster and we will be able to show you more
    action. Please come back and visit us.
        Thank you for that. I appreciate that very much.
        Mr. Connor. Absolutely, Senator. I look forward to that. I
    really want to get out to Poplar and the mid-Chesapeake.
        Senator Cardin. It is becoming somewhat of a tourist
    attraction. I understand it is incredible for bird watching. It
    is a popular spot now.
        I want to mention one other issue. In WRDA 2022, we got an
    authorization for environmental infrastructure projects for the
    State of Maryland. There is now a lot of interest in moving
    forward on that. I am going to ask your cooperation as we try
    to develop a strategy to implement that authorization in a way
    consistent with congressional authority and appropriations, but
    in a meaningful way to carry out WRDA 2022. Will you all help
    us doing that?
        General Spellmon. Yes, sir, absolutely. Colonel Pinchasin,
    as you know, has been going to the Association of Counties
    meeting for the 24 counties, and there is a lot of interest. I
    believe we have letters of intent on about $53 million worth of
    work. It is just one of those cases where there is absolutely
    more need than space in the budget. That is something we have
    to work on.
        Mr. Connor. Absolutely committed to the program. As you
    know, the appropriations process is going to be key, as it has
    been with all environmental infrastructure. We are taxing the
    limits of that program now. This is really good work that has
    been done.
        Senator Cardin. Let me put in a good word for Colonel
    Pinchasin. She does a fabulous job on behalf of the Army Corps,
    and she is so engaged with the community, which makes our jobs
    as members of the Senate a lot easier. Thank you very much for
    all your service.
        Senator Carper. Senator Cardin, thanks for getting over
    here and joining us.
        Senator Whitehouse, for our witnesses, we have 19 members
    who serve on this committee. Sixteen have arrived here and
    asked questions and participated.
        Senator Cardin. For the ones who didn't show up, can we
    have their money?
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Carper. You can not have their money, but you can
    have their time.
        Sheldon, welcome.
        Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you both for
    being here. I think I will take my time to go through a punch
    list of Rhode Island related projects that I would like to keep
    focus on, from very small to very, very large.
        The small one is industrial-era pilings around India Point,
    along the Providence and East Providence shore, which we have
    been trying to clear out for many, many years. A few have been
    pulled out in relation to a small, defunct bridge removal that
    took place. We would like to get the rest of it going. There is
    one.
        The second is, there is a sunken tugboat not far south from
    where those pilings are, and the Department of Environmental
    Management has been requesting information from the Corps for
    several months now about the permit to remove that sunken
    tugboat. I would like to get attention to that, so that they
    have an answer and can plan accordingly.
        Providence, our capital city, sits in a sort of shallow
    declivity, and is extremely vulnerable to flooding,
    particularly as we face increasing threats of sea level rise. I
    think we are a trillion tons off of the Greenland ice sheet,
    which has consequences. At the moment, you all are looking at
    the Fox Point hurricane barrier to, among other things, see if
    it is adequate to meet the new risks that climate change and
    global warming and fossil fuel emissions have caused.
        Stacked right behind that in terms of our Rhode Island
    needs is the prospect of potentially having to move south
    further to the Fields Point area to construct a larger, more
    survivable hurricane barrier there. We are going to need to
    have some pretty serious thinking. It would be an enormous
    public works project, not on the scale of protecting Boston by
    having to build an entire dike around the area through the
    islands and the harbor and all. We are narrower, you can kind
    of put a barrier across.
        It is going to be a complicated project, and it has to
    allow for, it has to be able to move a little bit, because
    there is flow back and forth, tidal flow and river flow, and
    flow of sea creatures and all of that. We really need to move
    that along. It is pretty important.
        While the Fox Point thing is important to get done, the
    really important one is probably going to be the Fields Point
    Barrier, because it looks like the sea level rise projections
    are going to make the Fox Point barrier have a fairly short
    effective further period of life, even if it is improved.
        That is another important project to us in Rhode Island,
    because we do not want our capital city flooded, and we
    certainly do not want it flooded because the Army Corps of
    Engineers didn't prepare in time to have the studies in place
    so that we could do the work to get the protection built.
        The last thing is, I have been badgering the Army Corps for
    a long time about the discrepancy between what the coastal and
    inland flooding accounts spend on coastal versus inland
    flooding. In a good year, it is 20 times on inland flooding
    what it is on coastal funding. In a bad year for us coastal
    States, it is 100 times on inland flooding than what it spends
    on coastal flooding. When you look again at sea level rise and
    what is happening, the idea that 100 to 1 or 20 to 1
    discrepancy persists I think completely misses the risk profile
    of our oceans and coasts.
        I would urge your eager, willing, and forthcoming
    cooperation with the GAO study that is trying to quantify all
    of that.
        There is my punch list. I have 12 seconds left.
        General Spellmon. Sir, I will be really quick. On the
    first, India Point Bridge, we will complete work on the pilings
    by the end of next month.
        Senator Whitehouse. I am not saying that is a narrow little
    set of pilings compared to the work that we want to accomplish.
    Those are only the ones in the immediate vicinity of the turn-
    down bridge.
        General Spellmon. Sir, that is correct, and that is where
    we believe the authority takes us.
        The second one, the sunken tugboat, I am not familiar with.
    I will followup with Colonel Pabis right after this meeting.
        Sir, the coast, the Rhode Island Coastline Study, that is a
    Chief's report. I signed that in September; it is ready for
    Congress' consideration in this WRDA bill. That will work to
    get after some of the challenges that you mentioned. We want to
    incorporate natural and nature-based features but also the hard
    concrete and steel that you mentioned at Fox Point, the
    hurricane barrier, which I have been to. I have not been to
    Fields Point Barrier.
        Senator Whitehouse. There isn't one yet. That is where we
    need to go, and we still need to do the bathymetric surveys and
    make sure we know the geology that is down below, so when we
    start to plan, we are planning off of a known physical
    geography.
        General Spellmon. Yes, sir. This last answer will not be
    sufficient, it will not satisfy you, we do have 60 coastal
    storm risk management projects ongoing in the Corps right now
    that you have funded, Congress has funded to the tune of about
    just under $8 billion. We are looking forward to getting that
    work in the ground. I know that is just a start.
        Senator Whitehouse. Great. We have a very good relationship
    with your local office. We will keep banging away to get these
    things done. I wanted to take the opportunity while I have you
    both here to put a pin on each one of those, so that you are
    aware of their importance to my State and to me.
        Thank you.
        Senator Carper. Senator Whitehouse, thanks for joining us.
        We have 19 members of our committee in all, we are just
    about equally divided, Democrats and Republicans. They have
    shown up in numbers. A number of them lead major committees,
    including Senator Whitehouse and Senator Cardin. They found
    time to come here.
        I must say, I am as always impressed by the depth of their
    knowledge of the needs of their respective States that fall
    under the purview of the Army Corps of Engineers. It is pretty
    amazing, given the breadth of the issues that we are charged
    with staying on top of here in the Senate.
        The other thing that really impresses me is the depth of
    your knowledge and the whole range of issues that have been
    asked from east to west, north to south, all the way up to
    Alaska. All very encouraging and frankly impressive.
        I thank you for that.
        I am going to ask a question for the record. We have a vote
    underway and they want me to come and vote on the floor. I had
    better go, or they will take away my membership. Maybe not.
    Maybe on January 5th they will take it away or something like
    that.
        Anyway, I am going to ask a question for the record. The
    question is, we would appreciate hearing both of your
    perspectives on the Corps' priorities for WRDA 2024. I would
    like to have that in writing rather than verbally.
        Any last words you would like to include? We do not always
    give our witnesses a closing statement, but just something
    fairly brief, both of you, please. General?
        General Spellmon. Sir, on the WRDA priorities, first of
    all, I want to say thanks for all the tools that you have given
    us. You have our commitment to work hard to get those more
    efficiently in the ground and be applied in the field.
        Sir, I would just offer, too, for this next WRDA, that I
    think would help us immensely, I think Section 1001 of WRDA
    2014 that brought us 3x3, and a lot of that has done a lot of
    good for my agency, I would just respectfully ask Congress to
    reconsider the $3 million aspect of that. The buying power is
    not the same as it was a decade ago.
        Sir, the second one, some of it came up today, on Brandon
    Road, but there are other projects. I think all of us would
    benefit, and the ability for the Army Corps of Engineers to
    assist our non-Federal sponsors with HGRW cleanup. This happens
    in many, many Civil Works projects.
        We would like to do that in a way that does not incur
    Federal liability on these projects as we do that work. There
    are just many applications out there that I think would help
    delivery of some pretty complicated projects.
        Senator Carper. All right, thank you.
        Mr. Secretary?
        Mr. Connor. Mr. Chairman, I will respond for the record
    with those priorities. I am happy to have a discussion with
    your staff any time.
        Mostly, I want to say thank you very much for your
    leadership and your service here in charge of this committee
    and everything you have done in the Bipartisan Infrastructure
    Law to the ability to work and magically get WRDA authorization
    legislation through in a timely manner. It is incredibly
    important.
        We try and identify impediments as General Spellmon just
    did with respect to being successful in implementing projects.
    Every 2 years getting those provisions, which helps us cleanup
    and move forward because of lessons learned is incredibly
    important. Thank you very much to you, Ranking Member Capito
    and the staff on both sides of the aisle. We are available any
    time for your needs.
        Senator Carper. Thank you for that. I think they are
    calling me to come ASAP to vote. There is a saying, all
    politics is local. That was, I think, Tip O'Neill. Another is
    all politics is personal. That is from Joe Biden. Both of them
    are all right.
        Again, the breadth of the issues here and the kind of focus
    on a lot of important points, but some that are rather obscure,
    and to hear how knowledgeable my colleagues are and frankly,
    the both of you, your teams, is quite impressive.
        In closing, I want to thank our witnesses for joining us
    today for what I think is really important work the Army Corps
    of Engineers is doing in conjunction with us and the
    Administration. We deeply appreciate your insights and
    testimony this morning.
        WRDA 2024 will continue to advance the Army Corps' critical
    work. As we continue to develop this legislation, we also look
    forward to continuing the conversation about improving
    implementation of past WRDAs.
        With that, some final housekeeping to close our hearing.
    Senators will be allowed to submit questions for the record
    through the close of business on Wednesday, March 13. We will
    compile those question and send them on to our witnesses, and
    ask for our witnesses to reply by Wednesday, March 27th.
        In closing, I would be remiss if I didn't say a special
    thanks and shout-out to our teams, the folks who sit behind us,
    the folks who are part of the majority and the minority on the
    Environment and Public Works Committee. We couldn't do this
    without the great support that you are providing us.
        With that, this hearing is adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 12:13 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

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