[Senate Hearing 118-746]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                                                        S. Hrg. 118-746

                    PERSPECTIVES ON NEW AND EXISTING
                      U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS
                    AUTHORITIES TO RESPOND TO WATER
                      MANAGEMENT ISSUES INCLUDING
                     DROUGHT AND WATER CONSERVATION

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               before the

           SUBCOMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE

                                 of the

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________


                              MAY 16, 2023

                               __________


  Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works






                 [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]






        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                               ______
                                 

                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

62-278                    WASHINGTON : 2025











               COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                  THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware, Chairman
          SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia, Ranking Member

BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland         KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont             CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island     MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma
JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon                 PETE RICKETTS, Nebraska
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts      JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan            ROGER WICKER, Mississippi
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska
ALEX PADILLA, California             LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina
JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania

               Courtney Taylor, Democratic Staff Director
               Adam Tomlinson, Republican Staff Director
               
                              ----------                              

           Subcommittee on Transportation and Infrastructure

                     MARK KELLY, Arizona, Chairman
               KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota, Ranking Member

BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland         CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont             MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma
JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon                 PETE RICKETTS, Nebraska
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts      JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan            ROGER WICKER, Mississippi
ALEX PADILLA, California             LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina
JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania         SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West 
THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware (ex           Virginia (ex officio)
    officio)








                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

                              MAY 16, 2023
                           OPENING STATEMENTS

Kelly, Hon. Mark, U.S. Senator from the State of Arizona.........     1
Cramer, Hon. Kevin, U.S. Senator from the State of North Dakota..     3

                               WITNESSES

Plumer, Christy, Chief Conservation Officer, Theodore Roosevelt 
  Conservation Partnership.......................................     6
    Prepared statement...........................................     9
Meyers, Leslie A., P.E., Chief Water Executive and Associate 
  General Manager of Water Resources, Salt River Project.........    15
    Prepared statement...........................................    17
Lewis, Hon. Stephen Roe, Governor, Gila River Indian Community...    24
    Prepared statement...........................................    26
Travnicek, Andrea, Director, North Dakota Department of Water 
  Resources......................................................    72
    Prepared statement...........................................    74
Verleger, Jennifer, Chair, Western States Water Council..........    89
    Prepared statement...........................................    91









 
                    PERSPECTIVES ON NEW AND EXISTING
                      U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS
                    AUTHORITIES TO RESPOND TO WATER
                      MANAGEMENT ISSUES INCLUDING
                     DROUGHT AND WATER CONSERVATION

                              ----------                              


                         TUESDAY, MAY 16, 2023

                               U.S. Senate,
         Committee on Environment and Public Works,
         Subcommittee on Transportation and Infrastructure,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:30 p.m. in room 
406, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Mark Kelly (chairman 
of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Present: Senators Kelly, Padilla, Cramer, Ricketts.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARK KELLY, 
             U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF ARIZONA

    Senator Kelly. The subcommittee will come to order.
    I want to welcome everyone to the first hearing of the 
Transportation and Infrastructure Subcommittee for the 118th 
Congress. This is my first hearing chairing this committee.
    I want to thank my colleague, who will be with us shortly, 
Senator Cramer, for his partnership and assistance leading up 
to this hearing. I look forward to our future work together.
    I also want to thank Senator Cramer's staff, I think they 
are here, and the EPW Committee staff, for their assistance in 
making today's hearing a reality.
    I had the opportunity to say this to each of them right 
before the hearing gaveled in but I also want to again say 
thank you to all of our witnesses for joining us today and 
taking part in this important discussion.
    The topic of today's hearing is an important one, 
understanding how the Army Corps of Engineers has been 
successful at responding to emerging water management 
challenges like drought risks in the western United States or 
increased flooding in the midwest, and how the Corps can be a 
better partner in responding to these challenges.
    For Arizona, the most prominent challenge that we face 
today, and one I talk about on this committee all the time, is 
drought. Arizona and the entire western United States is in the 
midst of a two decade-long drought. This has put incredible 
strain on watersheds throughout the West.
    In Arizona, this strain is seen most prominently along the 
Colorado River, but it is by no means the only impacted 
watershed. We had an unseasonably wet winter this year. We got 
great snow pack in the Rockies. This means we have better than 
usual runoff. All that is good news. It really is. We know from 
experience that wet winters are often followed by dry winters 
the next year.
    We need to continue to prepare for this. Congress has 
already acted to take emergency actions to respond to the 
drought in the west. I secured $4 billion in the Inflation 
Reduction Act for the Bureau of Reclamation to respond to 
drought conditions along the Colorado River. Already the Bureau 
of Reclamation has used that funding to conserve nearly 500,000 
acre-feet of water on the Colorado River through some short-
term water reduction agreements.
    I will also note that the Gila River Indian Community and 
Governor Lewis stepped up here and made one of the most 
significant contributions in this process, agreeing to leave 
125,000 acre-feet of water in Lake Mead. This helps us stop the 
bleeding.
    We know more is needed. The name of the game in the western 
United States is long-term system conservation and 
efficiencies. Those efficiencies will limit water loss and 
promote better conservation.
    The Bureau of Reclamation is making some investments to 
support these projects but this must be a whole-of-government 
effort. That includes the Army Corps of Engineers. That is why 
I worked hard in last year's WRDA to secure key provisions to 
help address these water supply challenges.
    This included a number of things like providing new 
authorities to the Army Corps to respond to drought risk, to 
reauthorizing the tribal partnership program for 10 years. It 
also included requiring the Corps to study ways to better 
support and manage aquifer recharge efforts, and examining how 
installing natural features at Federal reservoirs can improve 
storage capacity.
    I want to give Senator Cramer some credit for his work to 
establish a Western Water Cooperative Committee in WRDA which 
is going to foster more collaboration between States when 
addressing supply challenges in the western United States.
    I look forward to hearing more from our witnesses today 
about how these programs and provisions are being implemented. 
I also hope we can explore what more needs to be done. For 
example, do the flood control curves established by the Army 
Corps, which govern how much water can be retained in all 
Federal reservoirs for drinking water or flood control, does it 
make sense, given the changing hydrology in the western United 
States, do those curves still make sense or should we modify 
them?
    At a time when we do not have time or water, we do not have 
either to waste, is the Corps able to move quickly enough to 
support needed infrastructure investments in the western United 
States? What more can and should the Corps be doing to address 
invasive plant species in these rivers and in these watersheds?
    I look forward to discussing all of these questions and 
more with our witnesses today. I am going to start with some 
introductions. Depending on the timing, we will see where we go 
next because I would like to hear from Senator Cramer for his 
opening remarks and some further introductions.
    Let me first start with Governor Stephen Lewis. He is 
currently serving his third term as Governor of the Gila River 
Indian Community and previously served as the Community's 
Lieutenant Governor.
    Governor Lewis was born in Sacaton on the Gila River Indian 
Community. He graduated from Arizona State University like my 
younger daughter, Claire, and pursued graduate studies at the 
JFK School of Government at Harvard University.
    During his tenure leading the Community, Governor Lewis has 
developed a track record for bringing innovative solutions to 
water challenges on the Community. He spearheaded the 
development of the Community's Managed Aquifer Recharge Sites, 
which I have visited on multiple occasions. He restored the 
Community's riparian area. He has also been a key collaborative 
partner in the ongoing negotiations around Colorado River 
Conservation issues.
    Governor Lewis has also spearheaded education initiatives, 
collaborations with the Community's veteran population and 
advocated for protection of the Indian Child Welfare Act, both 
at home and nationally.
    Governor Lewis serves as Secretary for the National 
Congress of American Indians; he is the President of ASU's 
American Indian Policy Institute; he is on the Executive Board 
of the National Indian Gaming Association; and is on the Board 
of Trustees for the Heard Museum in Phoenix.
    Leslie Meyers is the Associate General Manager and Chief 
Water Resources Executive for the Salt River Project. Ms. 
Meyers joined SRP in 2022 and has more than 30 years of 
experience with water resources management in Arizona and the 
southwest.
    Prior to joining SRP, Ms. Meyers served as the Area Manager 
for the Phoenix Area Office with the Bureau of Reclamation. Ms. 
Meyers received her BS in Civil Engineering from Texas A&M 
University, and is a registered professional engineer.
    Christy Plumer is the Chief Conservation Officer for the 
Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, or TRCP. Ms. 
Plumer joined TRCP in 2016 before which she worked with Solar 
City, the Nature Conservancy, and the Conservation Fund on 
issues related to Federal land and renewable energy policy.
    For 7 years she worked on Capitol Hill working for former 
Senators John Chafee and Bob Smith, and was staff director for 
Senator Lincoln Chafee when was Chair of the Fisheries, 
Wildlife and Water Subcommittee of this committee.
    Ms. Plumer has a BA in Biology and Environmental Studies 
from the University of Pennsylvania and an MA in Environmental 
Studies from Brown University.
    With that, let me turn it over to it over to Senator 
Cramer. I said all these great things about you but you weren't 
here. I will turn it over to him for his opening statement and 
also to introduce our remaining two witnesses.
    Senator Cramer.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. KEVIN CRAMER, 
          U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF NORTH DAKOTA

    Senator Cramer.
    [Presiding.] Thank you, Chairman Kelly, for that and for 
the kind words you said earlier. I will verify them later.
    I like this committee a lot. I like this subcommittee a 
lot. I enjoyed my work on it previously. As the Ranking Member 
with Senator Cardin, we accomplished some big things. I look 
forward to even bigger things with Chairman Kelly who is going 
to do what I just did and that is to vote on the floor.
    Thank all of you witnesses for being here as well. As I 
said, this is a good committee. The whole committee is a good 
committee. This subcommittee especially, I think we have worked 
on some really important things together. I look forward to 
many more of those. I think today's hearing is a good place to 
start with that.
    We are focused today on gathering feedback and information 
from stakeholders regarding new and existing authorities that 
enable the Corps of Engineers to respond to challenges related 
to drought, floods and water supply. It is amazing all those 
things have happened at the same time in our great big Country 
for some years.
    Additionally, the hearing will provide an opportunity to 
discuss the Water Resources Development Act of 2022 and help 
inform future WRDA legislative action concerning water 
management issues.
    Before we turn to that, I want make a few comments about 
the doctrine of cooperative federalism and the States' well-
established rights regarding water management. I happen to 
think that the States' rights have been overlooked in lots of 
areas, not just water management, but it is probably as good a 
display of some of the imbalance that we should not see in 
cooperative federalism.
    Regarding the western States, Congress and the courts have 
given clear and consistent deference to States for water 
allocation through the 1944 Flood Control Act and the Water 
Supply Act of 1958. The history matters.
    Despite this, the Corps has pursued various regulatory 
actions over the years and decades, namely their proposed Water 
Supply Rule in 2016 threatening to erode western States' 
authority to manage water resources within their boundaries, 
the States' boundaries.
    Cognizant of this continued State and Federal conflict over 
water management, Congress established the Western Water 
Cooperative Committee through the Water Resources Development 
Act of 2022. It was harder to do than I thought it would be but 
the committee, through this, will provide a platform of dialog 
for western States to work out water appropriation and other 
issues with the Corps. I am hopeful this committee will help 
bring about a more cohesive State-Federal partnership relating 
to water management.
    This committee can serve as a first step toward improving 
the existing partnership to better account for States' rights 
and better resemble the model of cooperative federalism 
envisioned by Congress.
    One of the things about this committee that we are forming 
is it recognizes two important facts. One is that water belongs 
to each of us when it is in our State but it belongs to all of 
us collectively. It also recognizes while not every State is 
the same, the halves of our Country are very different. The 
west is different than the East. West Mississippi and West 
Missouri is different than east.
    I am anxious to see how well the committee works and if it 
is going to work as well as the members of it apply themselves.
    In addition, I want to also take a moment to briefly touch 
on the Snake Creek Embankment issue in my State. In 2007, the 
Corps realized they were experiencing some foundational 
problems with the embankment. The relief wells they put in 
place were not properly maintained over the years. Instead of 
physically fixing the problem to prevent embankment failure, 
the Corps decided to implement a water control plan that would 
limit the pool differential between Lake Sakakawea and Lake 
Audubon. Only people from North Dakota would know what I am 
saying when I do this. The State and others objected to this 
change as it would inhibit water supply to what is called the 
McClusky Canal, among other concerns.
    I worked hard to secure a provision in WRDA 2020 requiring 
the Corps to reevaluate structural and operational alternatives 
to reduce risk of an embankment failure and to properly account 
for the economic benefits provided by the embankment. Boy, 
aren't there economic benefits or economic consequences if 
there is adequate water or not adequate water. Water is pretty 
critical to economic opportunity.
    The Corps has since conducted a dam modification study and 
completed the associated draft environmental assessment earlier 
this year. The State and the Garrison Diversion Conservancy 
District have raised concerns with the Corps' recommended plan 
primarily as it fails to fully account for the economic impacts 
associated with the entire embankment. I look forward to 
getting into that a little bit today.
    I have since communicated with General Spellman and urged 
the Corps to take an all-encompassing perspective on the 
importance of the embankment, fully recognizing its integral 
role in ensuring water supply to roughly 50 percent of North 
Dakota's population and the billions of dollars' worth of 
development that are on the line due to the need for consistent 
water supply. This issue is simply too important for the future 
of the State to get it wrong.
    I look forward to speaking more with our witnesses and 
getting valuable feedback on a variety of water management 
issues. Thank you to all our witnesses for being here today. I 
know you all bring tremendous expertise and certainly a lot of 
local and regional understanding of the importance of this 
issue.
    Now I get to introduce my witnesses. I call them my 
witnesses. You are all of our witnesses and you are all 
wonderful.
    It is an important hearing and it is my honor to introduce 
as witnesses Andrea Travnicek, Director of the North Dakota 
Department of Water Resources and Jennifer Verleger, Chair, 
Western States Water Council. Thank you both for being here.
    Dr. Travnicek, we call her ``Trav.'' You all will 
eventually. It is easier to pronounce and spell. It is Dr. 
Andrea Travnicek.
    She was appointed by Governor Burgum in 2021 to serve in 
this role as the Director of the North Dakota Department of 
Water Resources. She has had lots of very important roles. She 
oversees the management of water resources for the State 
through water development, regulatory responsibilities, 
planning, education and safety.
    Previously, Dr. Travnicek was the Director of the North 
Dakota Parks and Recreation Department and also worked in 
various roles at the United States Department of the Interior, 
including serving in the Water and Science Hallway. She is 
intimately familiar with western water issues and the impacts 
Federal policy has on States.
    Further, Dr. Travnicek has a Ph.D. in Natural Resource 
Management Communication from North Dakota State University and 
was recently given the 2023 Horizon Award which honors NDSU 
graduates doing outstanding work and community service. 
Congratulations on that.
    She certainly keeps herself busy. She testified earlier 
this morning at the House Transportation and Infrastructure 
Committee. We are grateful to have you here today.
    Jennifer Verleger is testifying before this committee today 
as Chair of the Western States Water Council. However, she is 
also North Dakota's Assistant Attorney General and provides 
general counsel and litigation services to the North Dakota 
Department of Water Resources and State Water Commission, a lot 
of work.
    Ms. Verleger has represented the State on water issues in 
the U.S. Supreme Court, Federal appellate courts, the North 
Dakota Supreme Court, State and Federal district courts and 
Office of Administrative Hearings in several areas including 
interState rivers, federalism, water rights, water 
appropriation, drainage, and sovereign lands. It is hard to 
imagine a more important legal job than that one.
    Ms. Verleger sits on the National Water Supply Alliance 
Board and is a member of the Conference of Western Attorneys 
General. She has been an excellent resource to me and my staff. 
They talk about you a lot, Jennifer, as we have worked through 
water supply and water law conflicts with the court.
    Thank you both, Andrea and Jennifer, for being here today. 
I value this opportunity to gather input from all of you and 
your insights. I look forward to a meaningful discussion on 
water management in our western States and other issues 
pertaining to the Corps.
    Senator Cramer. I should have read slower. Maybe the 
Chairman could have gotten here. We will proceed without him 
and he will catch up.
    We are going to start with witness statements. You will 
each have 5 minutes. You can see the lights in front of you. It 
is just like driving. You know what red, yellow and green mean.
    We will start with Ms. Plumer. Thank you for being here.

   STATEMENT OF CHRISTY PLUMER, CHIEF CONSERVATION OFFICER, 
          THEODORE ROOSEVELT CONSERVATION PARTNERSHIP

    Ms. Plumer. Thank you, Senator Cramer. Thank you to 
Chairman Kelly and other members of the subcommittee for the 
opportunity to testify today.
    I am Christy Plumer, Chief Conservation Officer of the 
Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, a coalition of 63 
hunting, fishing, outdoor recreation, landowner, and scientific 
associations that was founded in 2002. At the TRCP, we are 
dedicated to ensuring the places Americans love to hunt and 
fish are conserved and the species upon which we depend as 
hunters and anglers are managed at sustainable levels.
    Water conservation and Federal and State authorities 
related to water quantity and quality are therefore core to our 
mission and we work closely with Federal, State, tribal and 
regional partners to accelerate the pace and scale of aquatic 
restoration.
    As a part of this effort, we host working groups through 
the TRCP Policy Council that bring together our organizational 
partners to develop, respond to, and advance water and natural 
infrastructure policy, and we engage with Congress on the 
biennial Water Resources Development Act and with the U.S. Army 
Corps of Engineers to implement aquatic restoration programs 
and authorities.
    Today, I will touch on the growing water management 
challenges, particularly in the west, and the opportunity for 
the Corps and this committee to advance nature-based solutions.
    The Corps plays an important but often-overlooked in the 
West providing water to meet the needs of around 101 million 
people and supporting agricultural irrigation from 24 projects. 
Corps-owned facilities also provide abundant hunting, fishing 
and outdoor recreation opportunities in the west and across the 
country. Drought and wildfire, aging infrastructure and 
increasing levels of water demand, along with climate change, 
are growing challenges for the Corps.
    Addressing these challenges, we believe, will require rapid 
deployment of nature-based solutions and natural infrastructure 
such as restoring wetlands and improving watershed health. The 
Corps has several existing tools and authorities at their 
disposal to scale natural infrastructure investments. One 
example is the Sustainable Rivers Program, a partnership with 
the Nature Conservancy that funds local efforts to integrate 
environmental flow and natural infrastructure objectives into 
existing Corps operations.
    In southern Arizona, this program supports a partnership to 
design releases from the Alamo Dam on the Bill Williams River 
to enhance riparian areas and reduce flood risk. Another 
example is the Continuing Authorities Program, specifically the 
Section 206 Aquatic Ecosystem Restoration Authority, which 
provides a streamlined process for the Corps to design and 
implement natural infrastructure projects.
    The Water Resources Development Act of 2022 includes new 
authorities and direction for the Corps to address drought with 
provisions on managed aquifer recharge, updating water control 
manuals in response to drought, and facilitating dialog on 
western water management.
    We specifically appreciate Section 8208 of WRDA 2022 which 
directs the Corps to assess opportunities to use natural 
infrastructure to reduce drought and wildfire risk to Corps 
infrastructure in the southwest United States. This study will 
provide information on how natural infrastructure may be 
integrated into existing agency risk management and operational 
guidance. We encourage Congress to fully fund the study.
    Looking ahead, this Congress has numerous opportunities to 
continue to build on existing programs and authorities to 
tackle drought. First, Congress should invest in the existing 
Drought Resilience Program to meet the outsized demand in the 
west, including the Sustainable Rivers Program, the Continuing 
Authorities Program authorities and WRDA 2022 drought-focused 
provisions.
    Second, Congress should strengthen technical assistance. 
The Silver Jackets Program is one successful model for flood 
risk management and should be expanded to address drought.
    Third, Congress should encourage the Corps to enhance 
cross-boundary partnerships with Federal land management 
agencies and non-Federal partners.
    Fourth, Congress should consider directing the Corps to 
update their benefit cost analysis process to account for the 
multiple benefits of natural and nature-based infrastructure.
    Finally, on the topic of hunting and fishing access, 
Congress should enable the Corps to invest in recreational 
infrastructure through the bipartisan LAKES Act, spearheaded by 
Senator Cramer, thank you, and Senators Heinrich and Padilla.
    In closing, we stand ready to work with this subcommittee 
and the full committee, Congress and the Corps to advance these 
fish and wildlife-focused solutions. Once again, thank you, 
Chairman Kelly and Ranking Member Cramer, for holding this 
important hearing today. I look forward to answering your 
questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Plumer follows:]

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
               
               
    Senator Kelly.
    [Presiding.] Thank you, Ms. Plumer.
    Ms. Meyers.

STATEMENT OF LESLIE A. MEYERS, P.E., CHIEF WATER EXECUTIVE, AND 
   ASSOCIATE GENERAL MANAGER OF WATER RESOURCES, SALT RIVER 
                            PROJECT

    Ms. Meyers. Thank you, Chairman Kelly. Good afternoon 
Ranking Member Cramer.
    I am Leslie Meyers, Associate General Manager for Water 
Resources at the Salt River Project. Thank you for inviting me 
today to provide testimony on how we can improve our ability to 
respond to water management challenges using existing and 
potential new authorities. It is a privilege to share my 
insight and observations with you.
    SRP has been serving Arizona since 1903, almost 10 years 
before Arizona became the 48th State. We are the third largest 
not-for-profit community-based public power entity in the 
country providing sustainable, reliable and affordable 
electricity to nearly 3 million people.
    SRP is also the largest supplier of raw water in the 
Phoenix Metropolitan area, delivering about 800,000-acre-feet 
annually from the Salt and Verde Rivers to municipal, 
industrial and agricultural customers.
    SRP manages and operates seven dams and reservoirs that can 
store approximately 2.3 million-acre-feet of water as well as 
1,300 miles of canals, lateral stitches, and pipelines.
    Roosevelt Dam was authorized as one of the first projects 
in the 1902 Reclamation Act. In 1905, Reclamation began 
construction on Roosevelt Dam 40 miles northeast of Phoenix, 
which it completed in 1911. SRP has operated and managed the 
dam for over 100 years.
    The U.S. constructed Roosevelt Dam as a water storage and 
power generation facility and it remains a critical source of 
stored water and hydroelectric power generation today. 
Reclamation undertook several significant modifications to the 
dam in the 1990's raising it 77 feet in elevation, adding 
550,000 acre-feet of dedicated flood control space, 1.2 million 
acre-feet of safety of dam surcharge capacity, and increasing 
water conservation storage capacity by about 280,000 acre-feet.
    The flood control space is under the jurisdiction of the 
Corps of Engineers under Section 7 of the Flood Control Act of 
1944. The Corps of Engineers, Reclamation and SRP developed a 
flood control plan in 1997 that requires that SRP evacuate 
water within 20 days of it first entering the flood control 
space.
    While the Flood Control Manual ensures that SRP can operate 
the dam safely under the most extreme flood events, it also 
requires SRP to evacuate water during small and moderate flood 
events, something we are working with the Corps of Engineers 
and Reclamation to revise.
    The 2006 and 2020 Water Resources Development Acts included 
provisions authorizing the Corps of Engineers to accept funds 
from non-Federal entities to review flood operating plans at 
Reclamation facilities with dedicated flood control space like 
Roosevelt Dam. Since Congress enacted these provisions, SRP, 
along with 14 tribal, agricultural, industrial, and municipal 
partners, were funding a coordinated effort with the Corps and 
Reclamation to review the flood control plan. This review 
resulted in our proposal to temporarily extend the release 
period in the bottom 20 percent of the flood control space from 
20 to 120 days in certain years. Engineers from both the Corps 
of Engineers and Reclamation concluded that the proposal was 
safe or risk neutral.
    This type of cross-sectional public-private partnership is 
a great example of what it will take to maintain resilient 
water supplies in the future. The Federal and non-Federal 
partners work together to improve water management while 
maintaining the safety and integrity of our critical dam 
infrastructure.
    If approved, this proposal could make up to 109,000-acre 
feet of flood water annually available for use in three of the 
next 5 years. Put in perspective, this amount of water can 
support the annual needs of roughly 330,000 households in the 
Phoenix metropolitan area.
    The Salt and Verde Rivers are highly variable river systems 
and we anticipate that the changing climate will produce 
increasingly variable annual flows. Projections predict a 
hotter, drier climate that has higher variability in river 
flows, including wetter wet periods and sharper, deeper drought 
periods.
    The Salt and Verde River systems experienced significant 
runoff this season and water rose 6 feet into the flood control 
space. If the proposed changes to the flood control plan were 
in place, SRP would have been able to reduce the flood releases 
by 109,000 acre-feet.
    Thank you, Chairman Kelly and Ranking Member Cramer for 
this opportunity to testify today. I look forward to answering 
your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Meyers follows:]

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Ms. Meyers.
    Governor Lewis.

  STATEMENT OF STEPHEN ROE LEWIS, GOVERNOR, GILA RIVER INDIAN 
                           COMMUNITY

    Governor Lewis. Chairman Kelly and Ranking Member Cramer, 
thank you for the opportunity to testify today on behalf of the 
Gila River Indian Community.
    The subcommittee's focus on the role of the Corps of 
Engineers highlights the need for an efficient, all-of-
government approach to the drought crisis on the Colorado 
River. The Corps is a key partner in addressing water 
management, conservation and infrastructure related to drought 
and is already engaged in new infrastructure investments, 
operational improvements at existing facilities, ecosystem 
resilience and planning assistance.
    The Corps has also taken positive steps to ensure that 
tribal governments, especially those tribes with significant 
water supplies, are at the table as strategic governmental 
partners.
    I do want to acknowledge that the relationship between the 
Corps and tribal Nations has not always been a positive one. 
Historically, decisions around flood control, pipelines and 
other projects have, at times, pitted the Corps against tribal 
governments.
    There is an important role for the Corps to play in drought 
mitigation. We have been encouraged by the more recent focus of 
the Corps, through its current leadership and tribal 
partnership program, to look for innovative ways to partner 
with tribes and support those innovative projects that bring 
long-term solutions to the ongoing drought crisis that we find 
ourselves in.
    In November 2022, the Corps issued new interim tribal 
partnership guidelines and guidance to expand the types of 
partnerships through which the Corps can engage with tribal 
governments. A critical component of the revised guidance is 
the stated commitment to tribal sovereignty and an 
acknowledgment of tribal capacity that, in many cases, either 
meets or exceeds the capacity of the Corps to carry out 
projects on trial lands.
    Following this guidance, the Community sought to partner 
with the Corps on a project that was already well underway when 
the guidance was issued, a pilot project to install solar 
panels over a stretch of one of the Community's irrigation 
canals. The Community's concept is that solar over canals would 
generate renewable energy for operating our system and reduce 
water evaporation. This concept has been considered but never 
tested in the United States.
    Using the Community's own resources, we commissioned a 
study that showed that our design would indeed increase system 
efficiency, conserve water, and generate energy. Although Phase 
1 of the pilot project will only cover about 1,000 feet of 
canal, our study shows real potential for this concept.
    To give you an idea of how significant this technology 
might be, there are approximately 150 miles of canals through 
the reservation that would be suitable for this installation. 
If fully developed, we could generate over 750 megawatts of 
power and conserve over 6,000 acre-feet of water from 
evaporation loss each year.
    This project will have long-lasting water conservation 
impacts and will serve as a model that can be used by other 
tribes and local governments. This is the type of project 
innovation that Congress intended when you included $25 million 
for similar pilot projects for solar over canal in the 
Inflation Reduction Act.
    When you are the first to bring a new concept to a large, 
bureaucratic agency, such as the Corps, the process can be 
cumbersome. Unfortunately, current Corps policy required that 
the Corps do its own validation study, which essentially 
duplicated the work we have already done to study the project 
and its potential and slowed the project down.
    The Corps timeline for construction is also much slower 
than ours. Their project budget exceeds what the cost would 
have been if the Corps could contract directly from the 
community to complete the work under the Indian Self----
    Determination and Education Assistance Act. Although the 
project could already be well underway and heading toward 
completion, the Corps' inability to contract directly with 
tribes has slowed the process, exactly what you do not need 
when you are responding to the drought crisis we are all 
facing.
    While there have been some issues and delay, I want to 
State that I do think the Corps is moving in the right 
direction under Assistant Secretary Connor's leadership. In the 
past few days, we have had major movement from the Corps on our 
project. The Corps' validation study was approved late last 
week and the conclusions matched those of the Community's 
validation study. Both the Community and the Corps are 
confident that we will be signing an historic partnership 
agreement for construction of the Solar Over Canal Project 
within the next 3 weeks.
    Based on the Community's experience, my one recommendation 
for the committee along with the need for continued and 
expanded funding for the Corps' Tribal Partnership Program, 
would be to consider statutory language to allow for tribal 
self-determination programs to be implemented at the Corps 
because the drought crisis and other complex infrastructure 
issues can not be solved without tribal governments being at 
the table as true partners, Senators.
    Thank you, Senator Kelly, for inviting the Gila Indian 
Community to participate in this hearing and for your 
leadership within the State and the basin on drought issues.
    [The prepared statement of Governor Lewis follows:]

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    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Governor Lewis.
    Ms. Travnicek.

     STATEMENT OF ANDREA TRAVNICEK, DIRECTOR, NORTH DAKOTA 
                 DEPARTMENT OF WATER RESOURCES

    Ms. Travnicek. Good afternoon, Chairman Kelly, Ranking 
Member Cramer, and members of the Committee. Thank you for your 
invitation to testify today on the importance of jointly 
managed water infrastructure in the State of North Dakota.
    My name is Andrea Travnicek and I am the Director of the 
North Dakota Department of Water Resources.
    The Department of Water Resources has trust 
responsibilities for managing and developing North Dakota's 
waters. We strive to sustainably manage and develop North 
Dakota's water resources for the health, safety and prosperity 
of its people, businesses, agriculture, energy, industry, 
recreation, and natural resources. We know that sound 
infrastructure must be maintained and modernized to meet 
multiple objectives.
    The Garrison Dam, completed in 1956, forms Lake Sakakawea 
and was authorized by the Rivers and Harbors Act of 1935 and 
the Flood Control Act of 1944. The dam is part of a project 
planning effort known as the Garrison Diversion Unit authorized 
by Congress in 1965. The Garrison Diversion Unit, associated 
with the Bureau of Reclamation, diverts water from Lake 
Sakakawea to provide water for irrigation and water supply.
    As part of the Pick-Sloan Plan, irrigation of over 1 
million acres and other water development opportunities in 
central and eastern North Dakota were authorized by the Federal 
Government. The Snake Creek Embankment impounds Lake Audubon, a 
sub-impoundment of Lake Sakakawea. Lake Audubon's elevation is 
cooperatively managed by Reclamation, the North Dakota Game and 
Fish Department, and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service by 
pumping water from Lake Sakakawea across the Embankment to Lake 
Audubon, where it is then diverted eastward for its federally 
authorized uses through the McClusky Canal.
    The Embankment is authorized to provide relocation routes 
for a highway, railroad, and utilities inundated by the 
creation of Lake Sakakawea and to serve as a sub-impoundment 
dam for the diversion of Missouri River water to eastern North 
Dakota as part of the Garrison Diversion Unit.
    The diverted water is then used to support the State's 
largest industry, agriculture, by providing water to the 
McClusky Canal. The diverted water also supports municipal, 
rural, and industrial water supplies; fish and wildlife; 
recreation; and other project purposes in accordance with 
Federal reclamation laws.
    The Embankment's original design included relief walls 
specifically designed to maintain structural integrity during a 
high-water differential, ensuring obligations for water and 
recreational users on Lake Audubon are met even during drought.
    In 2007, a post-drought seepage analysis determined there 
is a potential for adverse under-seepage that could lead to 
Embankment failure when pool differentials exceed 43 feet 
between Lake Sakakawea and Lake Audubon and further identified 
performance issues due to a lack of relief well maintenance.
    In 2019, the Embankment Interim Risk Reduction Measures 
Project identified a selected alternative to modify the Water 
Control Manual to incorporate an operating restriction that 
limits the pool differential between Lakes Sakakawea and 
Audubon to 43 feet during times of extreme drought. This means 
a partial drawdown of Lake Audubon could occur, which could 
impact regional water supply projects and irrigation, 
especially during times of drought when supply is most needed.
    In response to concerns, Senator Cramer included a 
provision in the 2020 Water Resource Development Act directing 
the Corps to reevaluate structural and operational alternatives 
to reduce the risk of an Embankment failure; coordinate on the 
alternatives with State and local entities whose water 
obligations would be impacted by a drawdown; and to properly 
account for the economic benefits provided by the Embankment.
    In 2021, the Corps initiated a Dam Safety Modification 
Report for the Embankment to identify and recommend a Risk 
Management Plan. The recommended plan is an operational 
alternative to remodify the 2019 Water Control Manual to 
include risk-informed language, update the dam monitoring and 
surveillance plan, and remove the formal reference to the 43-
foot differential constraint.
    While removing the differential is progress, the Corps is 
not addressing the overall concern of the project in not 
meeting all authorized purposes that are associated with the 
Snake Creek Embankment Lake Audubon Project. The draft report 
and recommended plan are only based on the perspective of 
potential dam failure that could result in a low-potential loss 
of life, rather than the breadth of economic and ecosystem 
impacts associated with the entire Garrison Diversion Unit and 
Snake Creek Embankment Lake Audubon Project.
    The other authorized purposes associated with the project 
are not fully credited in this study and are therefore 
minimized when determining the recommended plan and the final 
benefit-cost ratio. The lack of consideration of the other 
authorized purposes and the low benefit-cost ratio developed as 
a result of diminishing the value of these services have led to 
a decision by the Corps to have an operational fix versus a 
sound structural fix. This decision leaves current and future 
projects in jeopardy.
    Sound, reliable, infrastructure is a top priority for the 
State and local project sponsors. As of May 2023, Federal, 
State, and local partners have already committed over $500 
million to projects dependent on the Embankment's stability to 
put Missouri River system water to beneficial use. It is 
imperative that the Corps look at water management from a 
holistic approach, especially as it relates to all project 
purposes and directives that have been authorized by Congress.
    Furthermore, State and local investments and dependence on 
reliable water sources that may be impacted by a compromised 
Embankment must be fully considered for the citizens of our 
State who are looking to the Federal Government to keep the 
promises that have been made.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Travnicek follows:]

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    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Ms. Travnicek.
    Ms. Verleger.

  STATEMENT OF JENNIFER VERLEGER, CHAIR, WESTERN STATES WATER 
                            COUNCIL

    Ms. Verleger. Chairman Kelly, Ranking Member Cramer, and 
members of the committee, thank you for holding this hearing 
and your efforts to achieve a balance between Federal policies 
and programs and the role of the States in our Federalist 
system.
    My name is Jennifer Verleger. I am here today as the Chair 
of the Western States Water Council. I am also an Assistant 
Attorney General for the State of North Dakota, where I 
represent the State Water Commission and the Department of 
Water Resources. In that capacity, I am also a delegate to the 
Conference of Western Attorneys General. Additionally, I sit on 
the board of the National Water Supply Alliance which focuses 
on Corps water supply issues.
    Over the decades, western States and the Corps of Engineers 
have butted heads when State water law has conflicted with 
Federal programs and priorities, particularly when it comes to 
water supply. The problem can be illustrated with an analogy. 
Think of a typical kitchen sink. There are usually two sides to 
the sink, with a divider in the center and a faucet that swings 
between each side.
    On one side, the drain is plugged. This is the Corps' 
storage reservoir. On the other side, there is no plug, which 
is the flowing river. The running faucet is the upstream river 
and surface runoff, which is controlled by Mother Nature.
    The Corps controls which side of the sink the faucet is 
running into by opening and closing the outflow of its 
reservoirs. Once the plugged side of the sink is full, the 
Corps must drain some of the water, or move the faucet to the 
uncontrolled, free-flowing side.
    The Corps takes the position that all of the water in the 
sink is in storage and subject to their control and the fees 
they charge. The States take the position that the sink is in 
their own house, and that even though the Corps gets to control 
which side of the sink is filling, it only gets to enter a 
water supply agreement or charge users when they take water 
from the plugged side of the sink. Water that is coming out of 
the faucet, before it gets to the sink, for example when you 
fill a glass, and water that flows into the open portion of the 
sink is the States' to appropriate.
    After several years of the States' unsuccessful attempts to 
resolve their differences with the Corps over this issue, a 
provision was included in WRDA 2014 prohibiting the Corps from 
charging surplus water fees in the Upper Missouri River Basin 
for 10 years.
    However, undeterred, in 2016, the Corps published its 
Proposed Water Supply Rule. The States had several issues with 
the proposed rule. Despite the Corps' insistence that it sells 
``storage,'' the rule never defined that term. As a result, the 
Corps continues to assert that all the water in the reservoir 
is its to manage. In other words, the entire kitchen sink.
    In the rule, the Corps specifically stated that it was 
aware of North Dakota and other States' position that ``users 
should not be required to pay for benefits they do not 
receive,'' but stated that the law ``does not require the Corps 
to undertake such an analysis.''
    Not only did the proposed rule require States to pay for 
benefits they do not receive, it usurped the States' rights and 
authority to control and allocate their own water resources. It 
ignored multiple declarations from Congress that States have 
the primary responsibility for water supply and water 
management.
    Congress and the courts have unequivocally established and 
repeatedly affirmed the doctrine of cooperative federalism 
regarding water management issues. There was bipartisan 
opposition to the proposed rule from the Western States Water 
Council, Conference of Western Attorneys General, and Western 
Governors Association. There was bipartisan opposition to the 
rule from 19 Senators, including Senators Cramer and Merkley.
    Ultimately, the Proposed Water Supply Rule was withdrawn in 
2020. Most recently, Senator Cramer successfully incorporated 
into WRDA 2022 a permanent ban on the Corps from charging 
surplus water fees from the Upper Missouri River Basin. While 
this resolves the issue for some States regarding fees, it 
still leaves the fee issue open for other States as well as 
leaving unresolved, for all States, the issue regarding control 
over the water allocation.
    As such, WRDA 2022 established the Western States 
Cooperative Committee, which requires the Corps to annually 
meet with delegates from the Western States to develop and make 
recommendations to avoid or minimize conflicts between Corps 
projects and water rights and water laws of the western States. 
The committee must provide a report to Congress.
    The Western States Water Council and the Conference of 
Western Attorneys General are working diligently with their 
memberships to make their committee appointments. In fact, I 
believe we have sent a letter that went out yesterday making 
some of those appointments.
    While there is no expectation the committee will be the 
end-all solution to States' conflicts with the Corps, there is 
hope that with this additional congressional oversight, the 
Corps will take the cooperative portion of its cooperative 
federalism responsibilities more seriously.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify and I stand for 
any questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Verleger follows:]

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    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Ms. Verleger.
    I am going to recognize myself for 5 minutes. Then we will 
go to Senator Cramer. With the four of us here, if it remains 
that, I think we will get a couple opportunities.
    I want to start with Governor Lewis. Thank you for your 
opening statement. That is exactly what I want to talk about, 
which is aligning of these canals. Some of the stuff you went 
through pretty quickly so I want to kind of drill down. First, 
let me say thank you for everything the Gila River Indian 
Community is doing in trying to mitigate for this horrific 
drought we have been experiencing for 20 years. It really is 
going to take all of us. The Community stepping up the way you 
have is much appreciated by the State of Arizona, myself, and 
my office.
    The advantage we get from this is we are going to save some 
water and also generate some electricity. You went through some 
of this already but I want to make sure we get this correct for 
the record. My understanding is initially it is going to be 
1,000 feet, lineal feet, of solar panels covering these canals. 
For that 1,000 feet, what is the anticipated water savings per 
year in acre-feet?
    Governor Lewis. Thank you, Chairman. The Community expects 
that the project will conserve water, of course, that is lost 
to evaporation and thermo-electric energy usage. It is expected 
to conserve roughly 8 acre-feet of water annually. That is 
combined to 5.4 from evaporation and 2.58 acre-feet from 
thermo-electric energy usage.
    Senator Kelly. How many total megawatts would that lining 
of the 1,000 lineal feet of canal generate?
    Governor Lewis. It would equate to 1,000 feet would produce 
1 megawatt of energy.
    Senator Kelly. One megawatt of energy. What is the total 
cost of the project? What is the Federal versus non-Federal? 
Can you go into a bit more detail, I think in your opening 
statement you said if the Army Corps was to do this on their 
own, it would take longer and cost more? Could you give us an 
estimate of how much more it would cost?
    Governor Lewis. The traditional cost share percentage is a 
65 percent to 35 percent breakdown. That is for agricultural 
water supply. In accordance with 33 USC, Subsection 22.13(c), 
this would include credits for LERRDs, which stands for lands, 
easements, rights-of-way, relocations and disposal.
    However, associated implementation guidance modifies the 
cost sharing agreement for tribes by applying a waiver of 
$665,000 to the non-Federal share. This will reduce the 
Community's cost share to 25 percent of the regular 35 percent 
share. This reduction results in an estimated non-Federal cost 
share of roughly 6 percent of the estimated total project cost 
of $423,850. The adjusted Federal costs are around $6,320,000.
    Senator Kelly. What are the opportunities? How many miles 
of canals did you say there were?
    Governor Lewis. That is suitable for this project, 150 
miles.
    Senator Kelly. One hundred and fifty miles. Six thousand 
feet or so in a mile, so you could expand this by well over a 
couple orders of magnitude, potentially. Obviously, the cost 
would be in proportion. My point is I think there is an 
opportunity to save significant amounts of water and generate 
significant electricity.
    Governor Lewis. Yes, Chairman. This is a goal that as a 
tribal leader I set for our Community to be one of the first 
net-zero communities especially in Arizona to potentially be a 
significant energy producer as well through this project. We 
might be in competition with my good friend to the right of me 
from the Salt River Project.
    Senator Kelly. You said there was a recommendation of a 
change to statutory language. I am going to go over here by 
about 30 seconds. Could you go over that again and be a bit 
more specific?
    Governor Lewis. We are realizing that the Corps lacks, 
Chairman, that essential statutory authority to treat tribes as 
respective sovereign partners. We are respectfully looking for 
Congress to potentially significantly enhance the Corps' 
ability to execute the TTP, Chairman, by granting the agency 
the ability to enter into those self-governance contracts with 
tribes thereby respecting tribes' inherent sovereign nature.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Governor Lewis.
    Senator Cramer?
    Senator Cramer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    For all of you, I am quite sure there is going to be plenty 
of demand for both. There is going to be more demand than there 
is electricity. Keep them all going as long as you can.
    I will start with you, Ms. Verleger. All of you are great. 
At least for nerds like us, it was fascinating to listen to all 
your stories and anecdotes.
    Ms. Verleger, your insight has been really helpful to my 
team, as I mentioned earlier. I thank you for that, and I see 
why you are so valuable to them.
    You provided some very instructive background. I loved the 
illustration of the sink and the two sides. With regard to that 
water supply rule, from a legal standpoint, again, you talked 
about Congress, but could you dig down just a little more for 
me on the legal objections to the supply rule in the first 
place? I think history is instructive. I am glad we had it 
withdrawn and wanted to ultimately make it permanent for 
everyone. Maybe give a legal analysis of why it was so 
objectionable.
    Ms. Verleger. Thank you for the question.
    Basically, by the Corps trying to usurp control over all of 
that water in the entire kitchen sink, that takes away the 
States' ability to allocate the water in accordance with their 
State laws. Every State allocates their water somewhat 
differently. Arizona is a little bit different than North 
Dakota. Generally we all use the prior appropriation system in 
the west. There are already mechanisms already set up in place 
to allocate water between users, especially in times of 
shortage. When the Corps comes in and tries to take control of 
the whole sink, that really takes away the States' ability to 
do any sort of regulation. That is contrary to State law.
    Senator Cramer. Maybe even the Constitution.
    Ms. Verleger. And the Constitution.
    Senator Cramer. I was going to ask you about the Western 
Water Cooperative Committee, which again, the Corps wasn't 
crazy about our doing. Their sense was we can with attorneys 
general and Governors in individual States.
    Tell me how you see the new committee working and why it 
might work better in getting better cooperation with the Corps.
    Ms. Verleger. I see it working as, the committee appoints, 
there is one person appointed by the Governor and one appointed 
by the attorney general from each of the States. Those are 
supposed to be people who actually have technical expertise. 
These are not meant to be political appointments but people who 
are actually going to be able to dig down into the weeds with 
the Corps of Engineers' staffers, discuss the problems, and try 
to find solutions.
    Also, they are required to report to Congress every year 
after we have the meeting about whatever it is that the 
committee talks about. I expect it to be focused a lot on water 
supply issues, but there is no language in the bill that says 
it has to focus on water supply issues. I think we can maybe 
broaden out from that and see where there is conflict.
    Senator Cramer. I appreciate that. I am looking forward to 
being in the middle of that quite honestly, so thank you for 
your work on that.
    Dr. Travnicek, thank you for your work on the Snake Creek 
Embankment and for understanding my illustration. Dig down a 
bit more for me on what an EA should include in terms of 
information. Unfortunately, General Spellmon lifted the time, 
provided more time for comment. It is kind of fun, this is how 
it works in North Dakota. I text the Governor, the Governor 
calls Andrea, and pretty soon we are getting more information. 
Fortunately, what they ignored first go round, they are now 
asking for in the second go round.
    Tell us a little bit about that additional information. 
That is, by the way, it is their charter, right?
    Ms. Travnicek. Right. Senator Cramer, thank you for that 
question.
    Yes, as we are looking at the Snake Creek Embankment and 
the economic analysis that goes with it, right now the Corps is 
looking at the economic analysis just from the dam safety 
perspective, so the loss of life.
    I mentioned in the testimony that there are multiple 
purposes associated with this embankment. Looking at it from 
that water supply, recreation, fish and wildlife perspectives, 
that is why we have the concerns. That is why we reached out to 
you and the Governor's office looking for that extension.
    We had requested seeing the data that was associated with 
the economic analysis and what that looked like. We did have to 
sign an NDA associated with the extra information. My team was 
able to dive in, working with Garrison Diversion Conservancy 
District as well, on what those numbers are.
    We feel that if there was an opportunity to make sure we 
are looking at this from a multiple purpose perspective versus 
just the dam safety, loss of life perspective, we would be 
above that 1.0 that is needed for the benefit cost ratio to 
move forward with a structural fix versus an operational fix.
    Senator Cramer. Thanks for that. I think in the next round 
I may come back to that and drill down a little more on things 
like loss of economic opportunity if you do not have the water.
    Thank you.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you.
    Senator Padilla.
    Senator Padilla. Mr. Chairman, thank you for holding this 
hearing. As you and I together, the Senators representing 
California and Arizona during this 1,200 year mega-drought, we 
know all too well the Federal response to drought and water 
management requires a whole-of-government approach based on 
science and data.
    Governor Lewis, I particularly want to thank you for being 
here today. Thank you for your work on behalf of the Gila River 
Indian Community to elevate tribal voices within the Colorado 
River discussion and for being so proactive in finding 
solutions to the crisis. I look forward to working together to 
ensure the sustainability of the Colorado River for many 
generations to come.
    In California, the Army Corps works closely with State and 
local agencies to improve, among other things, the forecasting 
of atmospheric rivers which are often described as rivers in 
the sky, rivers that can carry as much water as 15 Mississippi 
Rivers. They produce most of the rain and snow that the West 
depends upon each and every year.
    The research conducted through the Forecast Informed 
Reservoir Operations program by the Corps, in partnership with 
State and local agencies, has enabled water managers to retain 
water that otherwise would be needlessly released, resulting in 
not just cost savings, but more importantly, a more reliable 
water supply while also preventing and enhancing flood control 
capabilities.
    My first question is for Ms. Verleger. As you stated in 
your testimony, western States experience great variability in 
precipitation which has serious impacts and consequences for 
the management of water projects. How critical is FIRO for 
effectively managing drought and flood operations across the 
West?
    Ms. Verleger. Thank you for the question. I would say it is 
very critical for States in the West. I understand that NOAA 
has submitted a report to Congress recommending a pilot project 
for improving the western S2S, which is subseasonal to seasonal 
forecasting, to support water management.
    The Council would recommend that the Corps should enter an 
agreement with NOAA to partner on that project and tailor it to 
ensure it supports the FIRO, Forecast Informed Reservoir 
Operations.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you for that. I am looking forward 
to following up with you on those items.
    In addition, there is a strong and growing interest across 
not just California, but beyond, in understanding the broad 
benefits of flood-managed aquifer recharge or flood-more 
projects. Flood-more projects use flood water from rainfall or 
snowmelt for managed aquifer recharge on agricultural lands and 
working landscapes, including refuges and floodplains. Flood-
more projects demonstrate how natural infrastructure can make 
flood impacts, maximize water retention and provide habitat 
benefits for fish and wildlife.
    This question is for you, Ms. Plumer. Can you speak to how 
water conservation and drought provisions included in the 2022 
WRDA will help stakeholders across the west implement 
watershed-scale, multi-benefit projects to mitigate climate 
impacts?
    Ms. Plumer. Thank you, Senator Padilla, for that question.
    Exactly in line with the testimony we provided, tremendous 
built-up authorities over multiple WRDAs in support of these 
levels of projects. We are strongly supportive of the vast 
range of authorities across the Continuing Authorities Program 
such as Section 206 that I mentioned in my testimony, aquatic 
ecosystem restoration, to provide the tools for non-Federal 
partners to do things like wet meadow restoration, flood plain 
restoration and really look at these abilities for natural 
features that exist in the landscapes today to be restored and 
do more long term water storage, water conservation that takes 
some of these fluctuations out of the water that we are seeing 
right now, of the vast changes happening between atmospheric 
conditions, such as facing California and these mass flooding 
events that are happening.
    Really holding, storing, and slowing the water over long 
periods of time and really tapping into the large expanse of 
authorities that the Corps, this committee and other efforts 
that Congress that has pushed the Corps on to think again about 
these natural features and nature-based solutions to these 
types of conservation objectives for our systems in the west.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you. With the few seconds I have 
left, I am going to squeeze in one more question. I will not 
stick around for a second round.
    To followup, Ms. Plumer, as we speak, the Corps is managing 
the flows of four reservoirs to minimize flood risk by low-
lying Central Valley communities in California facing 
potentially catastrophic spring snowmelt.
    How can managed aquifer recharge near Corps facilities such 
as those in California help mitigate flood risks for these 
types of communities?
    Ms. Plumer. Thank you again, Senator.
    Again, I think it is very much about slowing the water 
down, storing it, and utilizing the features we have on the 
landscape to store that water for future use, so, thinking 
about geologic storage, combined with things like wet meadow 
storage.
    Also, we are very focused on ensuring wildfire resilience 
and that our forest systems are able to store the water and 
snowmelt and that there is a slower pace in terms of hitting 
the reservoirs. Sedimentation, for our interests, in terms of 
recreation and how sedimentation impacts reservoirs and the 
health of hunting and fishing on our systems is another area of 
focus. Putting in these natural features blended with the 
structural features is a win-win in terms of reservoir health 
and storage.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you very much.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Kelly. Senator Ricketts.
    Senator Ricketts. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very 
much for holding this, and Ranking Member Cramer, as well, for 
this important talk about water resources. It is something that 
is certainly very important to Nebraska.
    Nebraska has a long history of managing our water in a 
responsible way. In fact, the Daugherty Water for Food 
Institute has looked at our farmers' crop water productivity 
which is how much water our farmers are basically using to be 
able to grow corn and soybeans. From 1990 to 2014, it has 
increased by 75 percent which means we are being more 
productive and growing more crops with less water.
    Nebraska has had a system of water management in place 
through 20 local natural resource districts for over 50 years 
that has helped us manage our overall aquifer to keep it within 
1 foot of where it was in the 1950's, where States like 
Colorado have drained their aquifer down by nearly 14 feet.
    We have worked with surrounding States like Wyoming and 
Kansas to create compacts. In fact, we have a compact with 
Colorado that goes back 100 years that entitles us to water on 
the South Platte River which comes from the Rockies through 
Colorado into Nebraska.
    Actually, in years like the past couple years, we have had 
drought. At one point on the South Platte River, I saw there 
was no water coming across that, even though Colorado is 
supposed to be giving us 120 cubic feet a second during the 
summer. We can get even more in the non-irrigation season if we 
have built a canal which we are undertaking to do.
    In fact, the compact from 100 years ago gives us the 
ability to build a canal in Colorado to Nebraska to a reservoir 
system. We started funding for it when I was Governor. This 
legislature has significantly increased backing for that 
project so we can continue to make sure we get the water for 
our State. That is going to impact drinking water all the way 
to Lincoln and Omaha as well.
    We are talking about water and Nebraska. I know it is all 
about you, Senator Cramer, but North Dakota. I am going to get 
there.
    Ms. Travnicek, you talked about the Army Corps and I think 
the Snake Creek Embankment and the uncertainty they were 
creating by not appropriately looking at the types of ROI. What 
can Congress do and this committee do to make sure that we are 
properly enforcing the Water Resources Development Act? Are 
there more things we could be doing to be proactive here in 
this committee or in Congress?
    Ms. Travnicek. Senator, thank you for the questions.
    I think what would be beneficial is just making sure it is 
fully clarified. Clearly with the last Water Resource 
Development Act for 2022, there was discussion, I think Senator 
Cramer included, related to the economic analysis. They decided 
to take it at a smaller lens just looking at one authority 
versus the multiple authorities.
    I think trying to figure out the appropriate authorization 
and can that be expanded to multiple purposes. I think that is 
where that would be helpful, making really crystal clear, if 
you have these projects that have multiple purposes, why are we 
not looking at it as a whole.
    Senator Ricketts. What has been your response in working 
with the Army Corps of Engineers? What have they been saying?
    Ms. Travnicek. Senator, the last discussion we had last 
week in regard to the economic analysis, where they really did 
just focus on the one element, the dam safety, loss of life for 
the economic analysis. That is where we, as a State, continue 
to impress on looking at all the other authorized purposes that 
are associated with it, especially the water quantity side of 
things.
    Senator Ricketts. They have not acknowledged yet the other 
purposes? They have still only acknowledged the one?
    Ms. Travnicek. Senator, they talk about the multiple 
purposes, but they do not include it in the economic analysis.
    Senator Ricketts. What do we need to do in WRDA to be able 
to make sure they are recognizing those other purposes?
    Ms. Travnicek. Senator, I think making it crystal clear to 
make sure they are looking at the multiple purposes.
    Senator Ricketts. Write it into the language when we update 
it. Got it.
    Ms. Travnicek. Yes.
    Senator Ricketts. Ms. Verleger, can you talk a bit about 
what your experience with the Army Corps of Engineers has been 
like when you have had your conversations with them?
    Ms. Verleger. Thank you for the question. I think it 
depends on who has been in charge and where we have been in the 
process. The problems we have been having over water supply in 
North Dakota have dated back at least to the time I have been 
there, which is about 14 years. I know we have gone through 
this same round of things back in the 1980's. I wasn't there, 
but I have all the documents and history.
    A lot of the problem seems to be, we talk to the staff 
level. They tell us, well, that is not our decision; that is a 
headquarters decision. Then we talk to headquarters and they 
send us back. There is a lot of bouncing around back and forth 
trying to even get to the right person who can help us.
    That has been a problem. I am hopeful the Western 
Cooperative Committee will help solve that problem, because 
those are the people who are supposed to be in charge and 
helping us.
    Senator Ricketts. Do you agree with Dr. Travnicek's 
assessment, though, that more clarification in WRDA will be 
helpful to that?
    Ms. Verleger. I do agree with that assessment, yes.
    Senator Ricketts. Great. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you.
    Ms. Meyers, you discussed in your opening remarks work that 
SRP has done with the Corps to update flood control manuals. I 
want to get into that a bit more.
    Across all your reservoirs at SRP, how much storage 
capacity do you have to keep available for flood control 
management? Then can you explain how the Army Corps Flood 
Control Manuals impact the river operations?
    Ms. Meyers. Thank you, Chairman Kelly.
    Of our seven reservoirs we operate, only one has dedicated 
flood control space. That is Theodore Roosevelt Dam. There are 
550,000 acre-feet of flood control space in Theodore Roosevelt 
Dam. That is operated pursuant to our Water Control Manual with 
the Corps of Engineers and the Bureau of Reclamation.
    Senator Kelly. Beyond the Army Corps telling you through 
these flood control curves how much storage capacity you have 
to have for flood control, is there anything more that affects 
your operations or is just having that number based on the 
existing curve?
    Ms. Meyers. Today, we operate that, the Flood Control 
Manual dictates that we evacuate the space in Roosevelt Dam, 
which is the highest upstream dam on the Salt River, in 20 
days. Our Flood Control Manual does allow for temporary 
deviations, as do many other flood control manuals. We have 
been working with the Corps of Engineers and the Bureau of 
Reclamation to solidify that proposal. Our proposal is to use 
the bottom 20 percent of that space and extend that release 
period from 20 days to 120 days. In Arizona, especially for our 
spring runoff which is what we had this year, some really 
intense spring storms, if we could extend the release period 
for 120 days until the summer, we could meet some real critical 
demand with that water supply.
    Senator Kelly. How much water would that be?
    Ms. Meyers. About 109,000 acre-feet annually.
    Senator Kelly. You mentioned that in your opening remarks.
    When was the last time the Army Corps did an update for one 
of its manuals?
    Ms. Meyers. I can only speak for our manual but I know that 
it is not unusual for the Corps to go for many decades if there 
is no substantive changes to the reservoir system and not 
update their manuals. Our manual was established in 1997. This 
is our first relook at that.
    Senator Kelly. It has been over 25 years since that has 
been updated. With that 550,000 acre-feet of available storage 
for flood control, meaning if you could, if you need to, you 
could flow that amount of water and it is not going to flood, 
how often maybe have you exceeded that?
    Ms. Meyers. This year actually the elevation rose to about 
6 feet in the flood control space. The total is 24 feet. That 
is the highest elevation we have been in the flood control 
space in Roosevelt Dam.
    Senator Kelly. That is 25 percent, essentially, if you are 
just thinking about linear feet?
    Ms. Meyers. Yes.
    Senator Kelly. About 25 percent of what you have available 
for flood control, you actually used going back how far?
    Ms. Meyers. To the 1990's when it was modified.
    Senator Kelly. Since the 1990's.
    Ms. Meyers. The fifth largest city in the Country is just 
downstream of this dam, so there are significant benefits from 
the flood control space.
    Senator Kelly. Do you now feel you can modify that to be 
more favorable toward water storage as opposed to flood 
control?
    Ms. Meyers. We certainly feel that this bottom 20 percent, 
the lowest 5 feet, is a good place to start. Our proposal is to 
do a 5-year plan and we can enter into flood control space up 
to three times during that. We will get some really good data 
and information from that. If it is successful, we will move 
forward with a long-term modification to the Water Control 
Manual.
    Senator Kelly. Was that enabled by what we did in the 2020 
WRDA?
    Ms. Meyers. Yes, sir, it was. That did allow us, the Salt 
River Project, to work more closely with the Corps and the 
Bureau of Reclamation on the reevaluation.
    Senator Kelly. Do you feel like we are moving in the right 
direction on this?
    Ms. Meyers. Yes, I do.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Ms. Meyers.
    Senator Cramer?
    Senator Cramer. Thank you again, Mr. Chairman.
    Dr. Travnicek, I wanted to talk a little more about the 
other factors that should be in the economic analysis. Your 
discussion with Governor Ricketts reminded me there is nothing 
more feared by the Corps of Engineers than a Governor who 
becomes a Senator and gets on the EPW Committee.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Cramer. Governors always have all this experience 
and pent-up frustration they want to take out.
    However, I thought the discussion was great because I think 
both Jennifer and Andrea gave the answer, but the Corps still 
didn't seem to be hearing our voice in the mandate, you know, 
you have to consider these other things.
    However, this is where hope lies, in my view. The Western 
Water Cooperative Committee, where Governors and attorneys 
general appoint these people, the reason the Corps leadership 
did not want to do it is because they like talking to each 
Governor one at a time, or staff level discussions one at a 
time.
    As a group, the West, together, strong bipartisan as we 
notice in this room, while aren't identical, we have similar 
concerns. That is why we created this committee that will 
answer to both the Corps and then to Congress so we will be 
able to be kept up to date on how they are responding so that 
we hopefully can make crystal clear, Dr. Travnicek, what they 
are either meeting or nor meeting.
    Now, I am going to be hopeful because I am a hopeful 
person. I agree with several of the witnesses that say right w 
have right now pretty good leadership. I think we do at the 
Corps. I have great respect for General Spellmon, I have great 
respect for Secretary Mike Connor.
    I am really hopeful. Secretary Connor having been involved 
in other agencies, Interior and understanding the role of 
States and the Federal Government, and natural resource 
management, I am going to be hopeful, but will reserve the 
tough ones for you, Governor.
    Maybe, Dr. Travnicek, just expand a bit more. Having been 
an economic development director, in the role of water, 
obviously irrigation is critical. Obviously municipal use is a 
really big deal. Both are big economic drivers that should be 
considered as part of any analysis.
    Beyond that, there is the whole role of industrial 
development. It is hard to measure what would have been 
possible had we had the water where we needed the water, for 
example. I think of all the projects that probably have gone by 
the wayside because we did not have adequate water.
    Can that be a part of the analysis? I want to have 
integrity. Can that be a part of it, if you could document 
projects that are either in the docket or the queue or lost 
opportunities if there was just a better supply? Ms. Travnicek. 
Thanks for the question.
    That would be our hope. We are hopeful as well. Some of the 
discussions related to that, knowing that the water supply 
projects that we have been working on, knowing we have had 
authorization from 1965, in order to use the McCluskey Canal, 
in order to get water out east to the Farber region, to the 
Grand Forks region, so trying to get water out east is for 50 
percent of the population of North Dakota. We have been trying 
to move those projects forward.
    It has been in the works a long time. We hope they would 
take that into account for the economic analysis.
    Senator Cramer. Is there anything you would add to that, 
Jennifer? Are we hopeful about the leadership of the Corps 
right now and maybe they are going to listen a little better?
    Ms. Verleger. Yes, Senator, I am always hopeful that 
leadership at the Corps will be helpful to us. I would echo 
your comments about General Spellmon. He has been very good to 
work with, and has been helpful in listening to the State's 
prerogative.
    Senator Cramer. My observation, and of course again, I look 
to Governor Ricketts because he has so much experience with the 
Omaha office. I think over the generations of leadership, we 
can always get along with Omaha. It is when it gets to Oregon 
or Washington that it gets more complicated.
    That is enough for me. I am grateful to all of you. I think 
your testimony has been great. I am ending on a note of 
optimism.
    Senator Kelly. I will recognize Governor Ricketts.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Ricketts. Senator now, but I would agree with 
Senator Cramer's statement about when you have a little bit of 
knowledge, from personal experience, it certainly gives you a 
background in it.
    That is actually one of the areas I want to hit upon. I 
will say that in the last few months, we have seen a big change 
in the Corps in Nebraska with regard to more timely responses 
to getting things done.
    I do echo your point about some of the leadership there is 
maybe a bit more responsive. I can tell you, for example, in 
the past, we had a permit that took 6 years to issue that was 
for just raising the levees around Offutt Air Force Base. The 
Corps did not give that permit in a timely manner, we had 
floods in 2019 that did $1 billion in damage. It cost the 
taxpayers $1 billion because they were not timely with that.
    One of the challenges I think we have, and Dr. Travnicek 
you referenced the Flood Control Act of 1944, where it directs 
the Corps to protect against flooding, protecting life and 
property. Of course, one of the other functions of the Corps is 
navigation.
    There was also a court case in Minnesota that directed the 
Corps to also take into account the Endangered Species Act. I 
think this is an area where we, in Congress, have to be 
thinking about how we may be hampering the Corps in its 
mission. Congress has never dedicated which of those is a 
priority, flood control, navigation, or endangered species. The 
Corps has to juggle all those without direction from Congress. 
That is an opportunity for perhaps this committee to think 
about that.
    In your experience in North Dakota, can you think of 
projects that were delayed because of the Corps having to 
juggle flood control, navigation, and endangered species?
    Ms. Travnicek. Senator, as we look at those types of 
projects, and we do have the authorized purposes associated 
with the Main Stem Dam, Lake Sakakawea within North Dakota that 
has all those different purposes, fish and wildlife, 
navigation, and flood control. We have been able to, in working 
with the Corps, they are the ones that operate that system. As 
we look at other projects that could be delayed for permits, 
for instance, for Northwest Area Water Supply, in regard to 
getting a 408 permit in order to move forward with that 
project, that has taken over 2 years to get the permit that is 
needed.
    It kind of depends on the situation and on the project, 
definitely recognizing they do have a lot of authorized 
purposes they have to be looking at, but also trying to make 
sure we are not delaying things in the process.
    Senator Ricketts. Ms. Verleger, do you have any experience 
with regard to the Corps and having to juggle flood control, 
navigation and endangered species and whether there are 
projects you can think of that were delayed because of that?
    Ms. Verleger. Thank you for the question.
    I cannot think of a specific project but we have had in 
North Dakota, we have had some issues with the Corps, 
disagreement, I would say, over endangered species, the 
Endangered Species Act. The Corps has a responsibility to meet 
the Endangered Species Act and those provisions. We do, of 
course, have threatened and endangered species on the Missouri 
River.
    There is some disagreement about how much control that 
gives the Corps over certain activities they can do, projects, 
how they operate things. I think there is some disagreement 
there because I think the Endangered Species Act is somewhat 
used to further whatever purpose it is that the Corps is trying 
to further without looking at the holistic picture.
    Senator Ricketts. Some of the experiences I had as Governor 
of Nebraska were that without that clear direction from 
Congress with regard to what is the priority, you are really 
kind of left to the judgment of the Corps and they have 
multiple masters to serve here. It is, in fairness, difficult 
for them.
    That also can drive projects, at least I have seen along 
the Missouri River and along the Nebraska/Iowa border where it 
is driving projects that lead to additional flooding. That is 
one of the things I think, again, this committee and this 
Congress can do, look at how we can prioritize that to 
prioritize protecting people and property overall. I do not 
know if you would have any further comment on that, either one 
of you. All right, great. I will turn it back to you, Mr. 
Chairman. Thank you.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Senator.
    Ms. Plumer, I am going to have some questions for you for 
the record. We have to go to an all-Senators briefing.
    I want to thank all of our witnesses for being here and 
sharing your perspectives on what the Army Corps can be doing 
with their water management approach.
    Before we adjourn, we have some housekeeping for Senators 
Ricketts and Cramer. We can submit written questions for the 
record by 4 p.m. on Tuesday, May 30, which is 2 weeks from 
today.
    With that, this hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 3:52 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
  

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