[Senate Hearing 118-739]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                       S. Hrg. 118-739

                    COMMUNICATIONS NETWORKS SAFETY 
                              AND SECURITY

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE
                               
                 SUBCOMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS, MEDIA,
                             AND BROADBAND

                                 OF THE

                         COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE,
                      SCIENCE, AND TRANSPORTATION
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                           DECEMBER 11, 2024

                               __________

    Printed for the use of the Committee on Commerce, Science, and 
                             Transportation
                             
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]                             


                Available online: http://www.govinfo.gov
                
                
                                __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
61-952 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------     
                
                
       SENATE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE, SCIENCE, AND TRANSPORTATION

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                   MARIA CANTWELL, Washington, Chair
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota             TED CRUZ, Texas, Ranking
BRIAN SCHATZ, Hawaii                 JOHN THUNE, South Dakota
EDWARD MARKEY, Massachusetts         ROGER WICKER, Mississippi
GARY PETERS, Michigan                DEB FISCHER, Nebraska
TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin             JERRY MORAN, Kansas
TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois            DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska
JON TESTER, Montana                  MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee
KYRSTEN SINEMA, Arizona              TODD YOUNG, Indiana
JACKY ROSEN, Nevada                  TED BUDD, North Carolina
BEN RAY LUJAN, New Mexico            ERIC SCHMITT, Missouri
JOHN HICKENLOOPER, Colorado          J. D. VANCE, Ohio
RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia             SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West 
PETER WELCH, Vermont                     Virginia
                                     CYNTHIA LUMMIS, Wyoming
                   Lila Harper Helms, Staff Director
                 Melissa Porter, Deputy Staff Director
                     Jonathan Hale, General Counsel
                 Brad Grantz, Republican Staff Director
           Nicole Christus, Republican Deputy Staff Director
                     Liam McKenna, General Counsel
                                 ------                                

          SUBCOMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS, MEDIA, AND BROADBAND

BEN RAY LUJAN, New Mexico, Chair     JOHN THUNE, South Dakota, Ranking
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota             ROGER WICKER, Mississippi
BRIAN SCHATZ, Hawaii                 DEB FISCHER, Nebraska
EDWARD MARKEY, Massachusetts         JERRY MORAN, Kansas
GARY PETERS, Michigan                DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska
TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin             MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee
TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois            TODD YOUNG, Indiana
JON TESTER, Montana                  TED BUDD, North Carolina
KYRSTEN SINEMA, Arizona              ERIC SCHMITT, Missouri
JACKY ROSEN, Nevada                  J. D. VANCE, Ohio
JOHN HICKENLOOPER, Colorado          SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West 
RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia                 Virginia
PETER WELCH, Vermont                 CYNTHIA LUMMIS, Wyoming
                          
                          
                          C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page
Hearing held on December 11, 2024................................     1
Statement of Senator Lujan.......................................     1
    Article dated December 4, 2024 entitled, ``Enhanced 
      Visibility and Hardening Guidance for Communications 
      Infrastructure'' by the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure 
      Security Agency (CISA).....................................    66
    Blog dated November 27, 2024 entitled ``An Update on Recent 
      Cyberattacks Targeting the US Wireless Companies'' by Jeff 
      Simon, Chief Security Officer, T-Mobile....................    72
Statement of Senator Moran.......................................     2
Statement of Senator Cruz........................................    35
Statement of Senator Hickenlooper................................    42
Statement of Senator Peters......................................    46
Statement of Senator Budd........................................    48
Statement of Senator Welch.......................................    49
Statement of Senator Blackburn...................................    52
Statement of Senator Markey......................................    53
Statement of Senator Rosen.......................................    56
Statement of Senator Klobuchar...................................    58
Statement of Senator Sullivan....................................    60

                               Witnesses

James Andrew Lewis, Senior Vice President; Pritzker Chair; and 
  Director, Strategic Technologies Program, CSIS.................     4
    Prepared statement...........................................     5
Justin Sherman, Founder and CEO, Global Cyber Strategies; 
  Nonresident Senior Fellow, Cyber Statecraft Initiative, 
  Atlantic Council...............................................     8
    Prepared statement...........................................    10
Tim Donovan, President and CEO, Competitive Carriers Association.    24
    Prepared statement...........................................    26
James Mulvenon, Ph.D., Chief Intelligence Officer, Pamir 
  Consulting.....................................................    33
    Prepared statement...........................................    34

                                Appendix

Response to written questions submitted to James Andrew Lewis by:
    Hon. Ted Cruz................................................    77
    Hon. Marsha Blackburn........................................    78
    Hon. Eric Schmitt............................................    79
Response to written questions submitted to Justin Sherman by:
    Hon. Ted Cruz................................................    79
    Hon. Marsha Blackburn........................................    80
    Hon. Eric Schmitt............................................    82
Response to written questions submitted to Tim Donovan by:
    Hon. Ted Cruz................................................    83
    Hon. Marsha Blackburn........................................    84
    Hon. Eric Schmitt............................................    84

 
                    COMMUNICATIONS NETWORKS SAFETY 
                              AND SECURITY

                              ----------                              


                      WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 11, 2024

                               U.S. Senate,
        Subcommittee on Communications, Media, and 
                                         Broadband,
        Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:34 p.m., in 
room SR-253, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Ben Ray 
Lujan, Chairman of the Subcommittee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Lujan [presiding], Klobuchar, Markey, 
Peters, Rosen, Hickenlooper, Welch, Cruz, Moran, Sullivan, 
Blackburn, and Budd.

           OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BEN RAY LUJAN, 
                  U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW MEXICO

    Senator Lujan. This hearing of the Subcommittee on 
Communications, Media, and Broadband will now come to order. 
Today, the Subcommittee is convening a hearing on 
communications networks safety and security.
    I want to recognize our Ranking Member, Mr. Thune, and 
Senator Moran for filling in for him today, as well as Chair 
Cantwell and Ranking Member Cruz for working with me to 
schedule this hearing on such an important topic. I think every 
member of this committee can agree that there is nothing more 
important than keeping our communities safe.
    That is why I worked with my Commerce Committee colleagues 
to make our aviation system safer, to prevent roadway 
fatalities, and to protect consumers from fraud and scams. It 
is also our responsibility to keep our communication networks 
safe, to ensure that foreign threat actors like China cannot 
infiltrate our infrastructure or steal Americans' data.
    Currently, our communities, our schools, our hospitals, our 
libraries, our police departments, and emergency responders do 
not have the resources to defend themselves against foreign 
adversaries.
    The Salt Typhoon hacks that were discovered last month 
demonstrate that even the largest corporations in the United 
States are vulnerable. This attack likely represents the 
largest telecommunications hack in our Nation's history. There 
is a lot that we still don't know about the damage that was 
done by the Salt Typhoon hacks, but what we do know is that 
more must be done to prevent attacks like this in the future.
    There are outstanding recommendations from Federal agencies 
that must be fully implemented across our networks. This 
includes standards and best practices recommended by the FCC, 
Team Telecom, and other Federal partners. One obvious thing we 
can do today is get equipment manufactured by companies that 
collaborate with foreign adversaries out of our American 
networks.
    Congress passed the Secure and Trusted Communication 
Networks Act in 2020, making it clear that we understand the 
vital importance of removing Huawei and ZTE equipment from 
every network across the country. Unfortunately, the Rip and 
Replace program has remained partially unfunded for years, 
opening up our networks to unnecessary risks and preventable 
threats.
    I am hopeful that there is strong bipartisan agreement to 
fully fund this program through this year's National Defense 
Authorization Act and address one of the major known 
vulnerabilities facing our networks every day once and for all. 
We also need to protect our networks at every access point, 
from phones to cars, and even baby monitors.
    Critically, this includes the undersea cables that carry 
traffic across the entire world. As the pressure on our 
networks continues to increase, it is vital that Federal 
partners do everything in their power to keep the bad actors 
out at every point at the supply chain.
    We are fortunate to have an expert panel with us today who 
will speak to the vulnerabilities in our communication system 
and how we can address them to protect our constituents.
    James Lewis, Senior Vice President and Director of the 
Technology and Public Policy Program at the Center for 
Strategic and International Studies will speak to how foreign 
threat actors like China work to infiltrate global 
telecommunication infrastructure to further their intelligence 
goals.
    Justin Sherman, Founder and CEO of Global Cyber Strategies 
and Nonresident Senior Fellow for the Cyber Statecraft 
Initiative at the Atlantic Council, will speak to how companies 
and the Federal Government keep our networks safe, especially 
undersea cables.
    Tim Donovan, President and CEO of Competitive Carriers 
Association, will discuss how small carriers across the country 
navigate cybersecurity challenges, including the need to remove 
Chinese equipment from their networks.
    And finally, James Mulvenon--pronounce that for me, sir--
Mulvenon, Ph.D., Chief Intelligence Officer at Premier 
Consulting, who Senator Moran will introduce, is joining us 
today as well. I look forward to a productive conversation 
today, and I want to thank each of you for being here.
    With that, I want to turn this over to our Acting Ranking 
Member, Senator Moran, for his opening statement.

                STATEMENT OF HON. JERRY MORAN, 
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM KANSAS

    Senator Moran. Chairman Lujan, thank you very much. Thank 
you for suggesting and making certain that this important 
hearing took place. I have a goal of working more closely with 
you now and in the future, and this is a nice way to start.
    I am also pleased to be here because my introduction and 
understanding of this issue mostly comes from my service on the 
Senate Committee on Intelligence, where it seems to me we are 
handicapped in our ability to explain to the public and to make 
awareness of the necessities of making significant changes in 
the way that we do our business.
    So I am pleased that we are having an open hearing to 
discuss and provide information to our constituents. Chinese 
hackers have infiltrated our telecommunication system, invaded 
the privacy of millions of Americans, and compromised our 
national security, exposing glaring weaknesses in our 
communications infrastructure.
    We need to understand how this attack happened and what we 
need to do to bring it to an end. We also need to know how to 
establish effective deterrence that makes China think twice 
about future violations of American infrastructure.
    While it is important that we act quickly, we need to make 
certain that the policies that we implement work to solve the 
problem and don't have those things we often call unintended 
consequences. I am particularly concerned that rushed 
regulations could increase compliance costs for smaller telecom 
companies, thereby decreasing resources that are actually 
available for cybersecurity efforts.
    We must not only address this single event, but also 
investigate the path forward that ensures growth of secure 
networks for all Americans in all parts of the country. 
Securing our telecommunications network is not a new topic for 
this committee or for Congress as a whole.
    As Chairman Lujan indicated, I joined in 2019 my colleagues 
in sponsoring the Secure and Trusted Telecommunications Network 
Act, which established the commonly known Rip and Replace 
program.
    That program, which will reimburse eligible telephone 
companies for removing and replacing unsecure Chinese equipment 
in their networks, is currently facing a $3 billion shortfall 
in funding.
    There are companies in Kansas like United Wireless in Dodge 
City, Kansas that have been able to remove the problematic 
equipment while still providing their customers with the same 
level of service they have come to expect, but yet in the 
absence of the funding that Rip and Replace has been offered to 
provide.
    That is not the case for everyone, and I am pleased to see 
that the NDAA included a bipartisan provision to fill this 
funding gap. Rip and Replace program demonstrates that Congress 
can take bipartisan action to secure our networks, an approach 
that is urgently needed now as we take steps to confront the 
challenges posed by China.
    As a member of this committee and the Select Committee on 
Intelligence, I will continue to work with my colleagues and 
Federal agencies on a coordinated effort to secure our 
telecommunications network.
    But as I said earlier, I think one of the most important 
things is for the public to understand the challenges that they 
face and that we face. Mr. Chairman, thank you once again for 
calling this hearing. I look forward to hearing from our 
witnesses.
    Senator Lujan. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. To our 
colleagues, we are to move on to questions now, but we may have 
some opening remarks from the Chair and the Ranking Member of 
the full committee as well later in this. But let's get to 
questions and I will recognize myself right now for five 
minutes.
    The providers that Competitive Carriers Association 
represents are the smallest, most rural providers across the 
country. They not only serve thousands of Americans, but 
thousands of our most vital community institutions, schools, 
libraries, hospitals.
    Well, I apologize. I have just been corrected that I am 
just jumping straight to my questions with my interest in this 
hearing as opposed to hearing from our distinguished panel. So 
let me jump to that. I appreciate that.
    I appreciate that, Senator Moran. But with that being said, 
why don't we jump to Dr. Lewis for his opening statement. We 
will each recognize you for five minutes. And Dr. Lewis, you 
are up, sir.

                STATEMENT OF JAMES ANDREW LEWIS,

SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT; PRITZKER CHAIR; AND DIRECTOR, STRATEGIC 
                   TECHNOLOGIES PROGRAM, CSIS

    Mr. Lewis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Ranking 
Member Moran. I thought you would let us off the hook, so I am 
a little disappointed. But let me thank the Committee for the 
opportunity to testify on one of the most pressing strategic 
problems facing the U.S. The scale and audacity of Chinese 
espionage is unprecedented.
    Microsoft must have a machine that generates funny names 
because the Chinese don't call themselves Salt Typhoon. It 
appears they may be Unit 61938, an intelligence unit first 
indicted in 2014.
    If it is 61938, we know their names. We have their 
pictures. It has been 10 years, and they have been very busy. 
Our response has been to give them a stern lecture and send a 
few strongly worded notes. We even managed to convict a Chinese 
spy in 2022, but then we let him go. The signal this sends is 
that it is open season on the U.S. The conventional responses 
to espionage do not work with China.
    Also, a country can't lose two wars and expect the same 
level of respect. Every year the Chinese are less cautious. 
Chinese exploitation of telecommunications for spying began in 
the early 2000s and has continued across four Administrations. 
It is increasingly dangerous. All great powers use 
communications intelligence.
    The U.S. is no slacker in this regard, something the 
Chinese will happily point out to you if you discuss it with 
them. The Internet has made spying even easier. China has built 
a comprehensive system for global communications espionage.
    China targets space assets, undersea cables, and telecom 
infrastructures, all accompanied by extensive hacking. The 
Chinese have remarkable--have had remarkable successes against 
the U.S. and Salt Typhoon is only the latest. It should not be 
seen as an isolated incident, but as part of a larger Chinese 
campaign to systematically exploit global telecommunications 
networks.
    Salt Typhoon may have let China see some surveillance 
orders submitted to U.S. telecoms, FISA surveillance orders 
showing which of its agents had been compromised. And there are 
reports that China acquired metadata and content from numerous 
high value U.S. targets by accessing their phone calls and 
texts.
    Everyone on this committee is a target. The U.S. hopes it 
can improve its defenses to the point where a giant resourced--
well-resourced and hostile opponent will face insurmountable 
obstacles. This hasn't worked. Countering China requires two 
sets of actions. The first is a sustained and forceful effort 
to disincentivize Chinese espionage. So far, espionage has been 
penalty free for China.
    Second, we need an expanded effort to harden 
telecommunications networks. Rip and Replace is an important 
part of this. Hardening falls within the remit of the 
Committee. This committee can make clear that FCC is the agency 
in charge and that regulation is necessary. Using CALEA as a 
stopgap, the current Administration has taken steps to improve 
security, and the next Administration should continue them.
    This committee can perform a valuable service by making 
clear that securing telecommunications networks must be an 
immediate priority for the U.S. In preparing for this, someone 
asked me, why should your average consumer, why should your 
citizen care?
    Putting aside the larger issues of national security, 
having a foreign power, a hostile foreign power with the 
ability to turn off the lights, turn off your phones, is not a 
position that is very comfortable for your average American.
    And so I hope one thing we can get from this hearing is a 
better understanding of that. I thank you and will be happy to 
answer any questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Lewis follows:]

   Prepared Statement of James Andrew Lewis, Senior Vice President; 
   Pritzker Chair; and Director, Strategic Technologies Program, CSIS
    Chairman Lujan, Ranking Member Thune, distinguished Members of the 
Subcommittee, I'd like to thank the Committee for the opportunity to 
testify.
    Let me thank the Committee for the opportunity to testify on one of 
the most pressing strategic problems facing the United States, the 
security of the U.S. telecommunications system. This kind of problem is 
not new. In 1863 the Secretary of State warned the United States' 
representative in France that messages sent to Washington over 
telegraph networks were being read. In 1900 Britain's dominance of the 
first global networks gave it strategic advantage. In the 1980s, the 
Reagan Administration gave senior officials special ``white'' phones to 
protect against ubiquitous Soviet telecommunications surveillance. 
While China's actions are not new, the scale of our dependence on 
global networks and audacity of Chinese communications espionage is 
unprecedented.
    All great powers engage in communications espionage. The United 
States itself is no slouch in this regard, something the Chinese will 
happily point out if you discuss it with them. The Internet has made 
communications espionage even easier and for the last decade, the 
problem for major intelligence agencies became not just to acquire 
information but to find ways to store and analyze it, given the vast 
quantities involved.
    The global telecommunications network is comprised of satellites, 
undersea cables, terrestrial fiber optics, and wireless networks. This 
includes devices connected to the internet, cloud services, and the 
hardware and software that make up the telecommunications 
infrastructure. These are all interconnected and vulnerable, making 
this the golden age of communications intelligence. The mobile phone is 
a gift to spies. A wealthy and hostile nation like China can afford to 
exploit them all with programs that target space assets, undersea 
cables, and telecommunications infrastructures, all accompanied by 
extensive efforts at hacking internet-accessible assets.
    Chinese espionage began shortly after the opening of the Chinese 
economy to the West. Chinese cyber espionage began around 2003 when it 
built high-speed connections to the new internet. Suddenly, the poorly 
protected data and networks of U.S. companies, universities and 
government agencies became easily accessible to China's cyber spies.
    There are many examples of this. China leads the world in 
espionage-related hacking against the United States. Telecommunications 
has always been a part of this. Beginning more than two decades ago, 
large scale Chinese government support for Huawei provided both 
commercial and intelligence benefits, and embedded China in the 
telecommunications infrastructure of many strategically significant 
countries, giving it access and potentially control of vital networks. 
And several years ago, there were incidents involving China Telecom, 
when it diverted massive amounts of Internet traffic to pass thought 
China where it could be collected. The famous spy balloon incident was 
most likely an effort to collect mobile telephone communications (among 
other things). China is also active in other intelligence areas, such 
as the use of clandestine agents and satellites, but communications 
espionage is their centerpiece.
    The Chinese have had some remarkable successes against the United 
States, most recently with what some call `Salt Typhoon.' This is only 
the latest Chinese effort, affecting more than two dozen countries. 
Investigations into the scope and damage are still ongoing. It is 
premature to say the full effect has been understood or remedied or 
what, if anything, the Chinese may have left behind on the networks 
they penetrated. Salt Typhoon should not be seen as an isolated 
incident but as part of a larger Chinese campaign to systematically 
exploit global telecommunications networks.
    Judging from initial reporting on Salt typhoon, the operation would 
allow China to be able to see Foreign Intelligence Service Act (FISA) 
intercept orders submitted to U.S. telecommunications companies, 
showing which of its agents had been detected (as well as anyone else 
the United States was interested in surveilling). And while it is 
unclear what other data China obtained with Salt Typhoon, there are 
reports that it acquired metadata and content from numerous high value 
U.S. targets by accessing their telephone calls and texts messages. 
Everyone on this Committee is a target.
    It is also likely that Salt Typhoon has elements that go beyond 
espionage. An earlier incident named by some companies as ``Volt 
Typhoon'' saw China preposition malicious code on U.S. critical 
infrastructure networks. Salt Typhoon may have also been used in 
prepositioning malicious code on telecommunications networks. 
Prepositioning goes beyond espionage as it is a precursor to attack.
    To understand and counter China, we must consider the whole picture 
and not just a single aspect. China has constructed a broad global 
signals intelligence (SIGINT) surveillances system. China often 
``mirror images'' or copies what it thinks the United States is doing. 
The model China is copying here is sometimes called ``Echelon,'' which 
in the vivid imaginations of those hostile to the United States is a 
global system for intercepting all digital communications. This is 
inaccurate, but China tries to go one better than the United States and 
it has different tools, such as state control of telecommunications 
equipment manufacturers, which it is using to build a global 
communications espionage network where the United States is the primary 
target.
    From the outside it appears that China has a comprehensive strategy 
for cyber espionage and communications intelligence that began soon 
after China gained access to the Internet more than two decades ago. 
For years, the United States accepted this as the cost of doing 
business in China. China's initial focus was on commercial and 
technological espionage as well as conventional politico-military 
espionage. In the last decade it has expanded in both scale and scope 
to include preparing for disruptive actions against critical 
infrastructure including telecommunications networks, monitoring and 
coercing Chinese citizens who are resident in the United States, and 
collecting reams of personal data from American citizens. Access to the 
U.S. telecommunications network is vital to all these efforts.
    Huawei remains the exemplar of this effort. It first benefited from 
the theft of technology (although it no longer needs this as much). It 
still benefits from immense subsidies from the Chinese government, and 
these helped it drive Western competitors out of the telecommunications 
infrastructure business and left it as the major supplier of network 
infrastructure (in terms of deployed networks) around the world. It was 
a brilliant strategy that has made China dominant in global 
telecommunications networks in the way that Britian dominated them 120 
years ago. Huawei's success makes `rip and replace' even more important 
and its inclusion in the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for 
eventual passage is an important step for which the Committee is to be 
congratulated.
    Countering China requires two sets of actions. The first is to 
begin a sustained, direct, and more forceful effort to disincentivize 
Chinese espionage. The second is to accelerate and expand efforts to 
harden our own networks and, if possible, those of allies. The United 
States' response has been too restrained. Economics have outweighed 
security, something the Chinese count on to hobble the U.S. response. 
China faces no real penalty for espionage and the traditional remedies 
have been insufficient. One of the most serious drawbacks for U.S. 
strategy is a reluctance to actually engage directly and effectively 
with hostile actors. As our opponents become more brazen in their 
actions, a reliance on limited and reactive measures guarantees that 
hostile actions will only increase. This is the unpleasant reality in 
which the United States finds itself.
    None of the traditional counter-espionage remedies, which are 
intended to signal displeasure to an opponent and persuade them to 
reduce their actions, have worked. Expelling diplomats, arresting 
spies, even closing a Chinese consulate has not persuaded China to 
scale back. Until recently, the United States and its allies were 
largely supine in the face of Chinese espionage. The one exception to 
this was the 2015 intervention by President Obama after the OPM hack, 
but the effort was short-lived and reportedly even opposed by some of 
his staff.
    Finding an appropriate and effective response to aggressive Chinese 
espionage is one of the central diplomatic and foreign policy 
challenges facing the United States. Deterrence in cyberspace has been 
a complete failure. Developing a program of active defense with our 
allies is essential for changing China's behavior. What has been done 
so far, largely the occasional complaint, is insufficient. More 
assertive measures could include political campaigns to exert pressure 
on China's leaders, operations to interfere with opponent cyber 
capabilities, or more comprehensive and damaging sanctions (an approach 
that European allies would find more acceptable). When China complains 
about tariffs, it could be useful to remind them of the need to change 
their behavior.
    This is a complicated issue as there is some risk of increased 
conflict and the Chinese will respond vigorously, perhaps by 
threatening to use their market leverage. It comes at a time when 
bilateral relations will become even more difficult, but the damage 
from accepting Chinese espionage has grown to the point where it is a 
major security risk, if only because it suggests to the Chinese that 
the United States will fail to respond to other provocations matter how 
grave.
    Instead, the United States has focused on hardening its defenses. 
In themselves, these efforts are valuable although still insufficient. 
As we improve the security of U.S. telecommunications defense, some 
less sophisticated opponents will be unable to overcome these defenses. 
Unfortunately, China is not one of them. While our patchwork efforts to 
build resilience and security make the task of surveillance more 
difficult and expensive and is a necessary step, China has the 
resources and commitment to prevail.
    Interagency disputes hamper the hardening of networks, and it 
should be made clear that the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) 
is the regulatory agency in charge (and regulation is necessary since 
the alternative has been shown many times to be inadequate for 
cybersecurity). This may not require new legislation, but it will 
require Congressional oversight. The FCC has taken action, but more is 
needed.
    In 2022, the FCC banned new telecommunications equipment from 
Huawei, ZTE, and other Chinese firms, citing national security 
concerns. This was under the agency's ``Covered Equipment 
Authorization'' rules. In 2022 it also revoked authorizations for China 
Unicom Americas, China Telecom Americas, and Pacific Networks and its 
subsidiary ComNet to provide telecommunications services in the United 
States as these gave China a presence on U.S. telecommunications 
networks. In 2021, the FCC implemented rules requiring carriers to 
remove and replace existing equipment from these companies in what is 
known as the `rip and replace' program. Rip-and-replace by most 
accounts is 80 percent complete, making continued progress essential.
    The recent FCC effort to use CALEA (Communications Assistance for 
Law Enforcement Act) authorities to require telecommunications 
companies to meet cybersecurity requirements could, if carefully 
constructed, usefully improve defenses. CALEA calls on 
telecommunications carriers to protect intercept controls and data from 
unauthorized access, implement access controls and audit mechanisms, 
and ensure the secure transmission of intercept data to law 
enforcement.
    There is an easy comparison between the effort and resources banks 
put into cybersecurity versus the amount spent by telecommunications 
companies. Publicly available documents suggest that on average, major 
banks spend between 6-12 percent of their IT budgets on cybersecurity 
compared to 3-5 percent spent by major telecommunications companies. 
Major telecom firms do take cybersecurity seriously but may not fully 
match the depth and resourcing of efforts in the financial sector.
    Major U.S. telecommunications companies could strengthen 
cybersecurity through infrastructure modernization, use of zero-trust 
architectures, and increased network segmentation. Copying the 
financial sector practices, they could improve their threat detection 
by deploying advanced monitoring tools, AI-based anomaly detection, and 
automated incident response. Stronger access controls and robust 
identity management would help. Telecommunications companies could 
invest more in acquiring cybersecurity talent and expanding security 
teams. The challenge is balancing these improvements against 
operational requirements and costs.
    As the Committee knows, telecommunications modernization comes in 
regular cycles. We are now at the in the midst of the latest cycle to 
the next generation of telecommunications (5G) and the greater use of 
Open Radio Access Networks (ORAN). This transition offer an opportunity 
to remedy some of the technical vulnerabilities that China exploited 
for Salt Typhoon, but 5G and ORAN and their reliance on cloud services 
also increase the need for improved cybersecurity.
    There is always a cost to regulation and it would be best if 
decisions on regulation and best practices were informed through a 
consultative process led by the Office of the National Cyber Director 
(ONCD). ONCD should work with the telecommunications, cloud, and 
financial sector companies to identify additional steps and cooperative 
measures to improve the security and resilience of the national 
telecommunication infrastructures.
    Despite some good work, not enough has been done and the Committee 
can perform a valuable service by changing this. It can make clear that 
the FCC is the regulatory agency in charge (and judging from the 
financial sector experience, regulation is necessary). This 
Administration has taken several steps to improve cybersecurity and 
hopefully the next will continue them. Securing telecommunications 
networks must be a higher priority. A reliable, resilient 
telecommunications infrastructure is essential for security and 
economic strength, and this requires minimizes the opportunities for 
communications collection by adversaries and putting China on notices 
that its actions will no longer be tolerated without penalty.
    China had a comprehensive strategy (to exploit communications) and 
the United States does not have a comprehensive strategy to defend 
them. The advantage lies with our opponents and the work of this 
committee can help change that. Thank you for the opportunity to 
testify.

    Senator Lujan. Dr. Lewis, thank you very much. Mr. Sherman, 
Founder, CEO of Global Cyber Strategies; Nonresident Senior 
Fellow for the Cyber Statecraft Initiative at the Atlantic 
Council.

         STATEMENT OF JUSTIN SHERMAN, FOUNDER AND CEO,

          GLOBAL CYBER STRATEGIES; NONRESIDENT SENIOR

              FELLOW, CYBER STATECRAFT INITIATIVE,

                        ATLANTIC COUNCIL

    Mr. Sherman. Subcommittee Chair Lujan, Ranking Member 
Moran, and distinguished members of the Subcommittee, thank you 
for the opportunity to testify today. When most Americans go on 
the internet, they connect via Wi-Fi on their laptops or cell 
service on their smartphones.
    What often goes unnoticed is a critical piece of the 
infrastructure behind it, which carries 99 percent of the 
world's inter-continental Internet traffic, submarine cables. 
More than 500 submarine cables as thick as a garden hose--and 
we can thank staff. We have a little snippet of one here.
    These carry Internet data between cities, between 
continents. Dozens more of these cables are on the way. We will 
easily hit 600, 700 in the next few years. They enable 
worldwide information flows, commerce, scientific research, 
military communications, and much more.
    Private sector American companies have long played a 
pivotal role in the financing, construction, laying, and 
management of submarine cables connected to the United States 
and between other countries around the world.
    Historically, cable investment and ownership from the 
United States was led by firms such as AT&T and Verizon. Today, 
the dominant investors and owners of subsea cables are four 
companies: Alphabet, Amazon, Meta, and Microsoft. Submarine 
cables are expensive and complex, and frequently cross many 
borders.
    And so international collaboration is an important and 
necessary and a largely positive fact of maintaining this 
global network. It is likewise essential for U.S. companies to 
continue competitively innovating in this area and playing 
their part around the world. But, there are serious threats to 
the security and the safety and the resilience of submarine 
cables and to U.S. national security that require Government 
action.
    Submarine cables are damaged hundreds of times a year, most 
often by accident, such as from fishing boats that go close to 
shore, drag an anchor, and snap this very thin cable that we 
have here on the table.
    Most damage is not intentional, but at the same time, this 
doesn't fully capture, and industry often fails to appreciate 
the serious, persistent, and ongoing national security threats 
to cables across espionage, supply chain compromise, and even 
physical targeting, especially from the Chinese and Russian 
governments.
    Foreign actors can potentially tap into cables at numerous 
points along the route, including during repairs or by hacking 
into remote cable systems. Cutting one cable is thankfully not 
going to knock out our country's Internet or the world. But 
damaging a cable could disrupt data flows, could cause traffic 
to be diverted through points. For example, the Chinese 
government can intercept and much, much more.
    Beyond that, Chinese state owned telecoms are the major 
investors out of China in these cables. Chinese firms are 
heavily involved in subsea cable repair. And Russia, meanwhile, 
is accelerating development of military and intelligence 
capabilities to surveil and physically target, including cut 
subsea cables. Incidents in Hawaii, the Baltic Sea, most 
recently the Red Sea, numerous and growing incidents in the 
South China Sea and elsewhere underscore these national 
security threats.
    This is why for decades the U.S. has had Team Telecom, an 
interagency group advising the FCC on national security 
threats, including to submarine cables. It operated informally 
for decades, and President Trump formally established Team 
Telecom as a committee by Executive Order in 2020, which 
President Biden has kept in place.
    Team Telecom has struggled before with a lack of focus on 
China, with major operational transparency issues, but 
especially since President Trump's Executive Order and other 
actions, it has made huge progress in transparency and a focus 
in particular on the Chinese government's threat to this 
infrastructure.
    Given the risks particularly from Beijing and Moscow, 
Congress should consider at least four things. One is keep 
encouraging Team Telecom's transparency. The second is to 
statutorily authorize Team Telecom to make sure it has the 
appropriate authorities. The third is to commission a study on 
China's involvement in and thrust of subsea cables.
    And the fourth is to request a lessons learned report from 
Team Telecom to inform future action. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Sherman follows:]

  Prepared Statement of Justin Sherman, Founder and CEO, Global Cyber 
    Strategie; Nonresident Senior Fellow, Atlantic Council's Cyber 
                         Statecraft Initiative

 The Global Submarine Cable Network, Cybersecurity and Resilience, and 
                    Risks to U.S. National Security

    Subcommittee Chair Lujan, Ranking Member Thune, and distinguished 
members of the Subcommittee, I appreciate the opportunity to testify 
today about the global submarine cable network, cybersecurity and 
resilience, and protecting our national security from foreign threats.
    I am the founder and CEO of Global Cyber Strategies, a Washington, 
DC-based research and advisory firm, and a nonresident senior fellow at 
the Atlantic Council's Cyber Statecraft Initiative. I teach, consult, 
research, and write on cybersecurity, privacy, submarine cable 
resilience, geopolitical risk, and China and Russia--and am sanctioned 
by the Russian government. I'm also the author of the forthcoming book 
Technology and National Security Collide, on the history and future of 
U.S. national security regulations and review programs focused on 
technology.
    Hundreds of submarine cables globally carry 99 percent of Internet 
traffic between continents. This network's security and resilience are 
vital to worldwide information flows, commerce, scientific research, 
military communications, and U.S. national security. Private-sector 
companies' ability to competitively build and maintain this network is 
also vital: to economic security, national security, and the US' 
ability to differentiate its Internet approach from Beijing's model. 
Simultaneously, companies involved in subsea cables often have major 
national security blind spots, and foreign actors, particularly the 
Chinese and Russian governments, pose sophisticated, persistent threats 
to the global submarine cable network and the security of U.S. data 
flows. This makes the interagency ``Team Telecom'' committee critical 
to protecting U.S. national security, countering Chinese state efforts 
to compromise the cable supply chain, and helping companies to better 
understand the risks.
    Congress should keep encouraging Team Telecom's transparency; 
statutorily authorize Team Telecom to ensure it has appropriate 
authorities and funds; commission a study on Beijing's threats to 
submarine cables; and request a Team Telecom lessons-learned report to 
inform future action.
    In this written testimony, I describe how:

   Submarine cables globally carry 99 percent of Internet 
        traffic between continents. There are more than 500 submarine 
        cables ``in service'' worldwide, with dozens more underway.

   Private-sector American companies have long played a pivotal 
        role in the financing, construction, laying, and management of 
        submarine cables connected to the United States and between 
        other countries around the world. Historically, cable 
        investment and ownership from the United States was led by 
        firms such as AT&T and Verizon. Today, the dominant U.S. 
        investors in and owners of submarine cables are Alphabet 
        (Google), Amazon, Meta (Facebook), and Microsoft. They are 
        pouring money into these activities.

   Worldwide, a variety of entities--private-sector, 
        government, and both--are involved in financing, constructing, 
        laying, and managing submarine cables. Not every country has 
        what are typically considered large Internet companies driving 
        subsea cable investments.

   Submarine cable projects are highly expensive, resource 
        intensive, and logistically complex--and frequently cross many 
        borders. International collaboration on financing, 
        constructing, laying, managing, and repairing submarine cables 
        is therefore an important, necessary, and largely positive fact 
        of maintaining and expanding the global network.

   There are many threats to submarine cables: accidents, 
        natural weather events, and persistent, ongoing risks of 
        espionage, sabotage, disruption, and supply chain infiltration 
        from foreign actors, particularly from the Chinese and Russian 
        governments. These threats put at risk the cable network, its 
        cybersecurity and resilience, and U.S. national security.

   More than 80 percent of the hundreds of cable outages and 
        breaks each year are due to fishing and anchoring incidents, 
        and many of the remainder are due to natural weather events. 
        However, industry does not always capture or appreciate the 
        national security risks at play.

   Submarine cables are a potential surveillance goldmine. 
        Foreign actors can potentially tap into cables at multiple 
        points throughout the route, including by hacking into cable-
        adjacent, internet-connected systems. Malicious actors can also 
        physically damage cables, and while cutting one cable is not 
        going to knock out the world's internet, damaging or destroying 
        cables in certain regions can disrupt some data flows, have the 
        effect of encouraging traffic to flow via other means, force 
        repair ships to be sent out, and more.

   Recent cable cuts in the Baltic Sea by a Russia-departing 
        Chinese vessel, an attempted cyber operation against a cable-
        linked system in Hawaii, accidental cable cuts in the Red Sea 
        due to the Houthis sinking a ship, and suspicious Chinese 
        government and company activity near Asia-Pacific cables, among 
        others, speak to these security risks.

   Chinese state-owned telecoms China Mobile, China Telecom, 
        and China Unicom are also major Chinese investors in subsea 
        cables, and Russia's Main Directorate for Deep Sea Research is 
        accelerating development of undersea surveillance and targeting 
        capabilities.

   For decades, an informal interagency group, dubbed ``Team 
        Telecom,'' advised the Federal Communications Commission on the 
        national security risks to infrastructure like submarine 
        cables. President Trump formally established Team Telecom as an 
        Executive Branch committee with E.O. 13913 in 2020, which 
        President Biden kept in place. Today, Team Telecom plays a 
        vital role in advising the FCC on the national security risks 
        to cables.

   Recent Team Telecom decisions informed the FCC's effective 
        expulsion of China Telecom from the United States in 2021 and 
        mitigations for a proposed cable that would have had landing 
        stations in California and in Hong Kong. Team Telecom's 
        bipartisan-supported work must continue--and is even more 
        essential given threats from Beijing and Moscow.
The Global Submarine Cable Network
    Submarine cables globally carry 99 percent of Internet traffic 
between continents.\1\ These cables vary in thickness from about one 
centimeter to about 20 centimeters, about the thickness of a garden 
hose, and contain a hair-thin inner fiber than transmits Internet data 
across the cable, whether e-mails, videos, or sensitive documents.\2\ 
Fiber-optic cables are faster, cheaper, and generally more reliable 
than satellites.\3\ (In fact, while satellite communications have 
important uses and value-adds in specific, defined scenarios, it's on 
the whole not even close in speed, bandwidth, and reliability, among 
other metrics.) \4\ Companies and other entities build different 
components of these cables, assemble them, and lay them across the 
ocean floor to connect disparate masses, like South America and Europe. 
Every undersea cable has at least two ``landing points,'' or the 
locations where the cable meets the shoreline. Facilities at these 
landing points can provide multiple functions, including terminating an 
international cable, supplying power to the cable, and acting as a 
point of domestic and/or international connection.\5\ The owner of a 
submarine cable may not be the same entity as the owner of the landing 
station, just as a company or government agency that invests in a 
submarine cable's construction may not be the same entity managing its 
operation once live.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ This figure was broken down well by Alan Mauldin for 
TeleGeography: Alan Mauldin, ``Do Submarine Cables Account For Over 99 
percent of Intercontinental Data Traffic?'' TeleGeography.com, May 4, 
2023, https://blog.telegeography.com/2023-mythbusting-part-3.
    \2\ This and other portions of this testimony point to: Justin 
Sherman, Cyber Defense Across the Ocean Floor: The Geopolitics of 
Submarine Cable Security (Washington, D.C.: Atlantic Council, September 
2021), https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/in-depth-research-reports/
report/cyber-defense-across-the-ocean-floor-the-geopolitics-of-
submarine-cable-security/, 4. As noted in the report, on the page 
cited, thanks as well to experts such as Bill Woodcock for discussion 
of these points at the time of the 2021 report's authoring.
    \3\ For some good explainers, see, e.g., Jeff Fraleigh, ``Fiber vs. 
Satellite Internet: Why Fiber Optics Lead the Future of High-Speed 
Connectivity), ETI Software, April 24, 2024, https://etisoftware.com/
resources/blog/fiber-vs-satellite-why-fiber-optics-lead-the-future-of-
high-speed-connectivity/; Airband, ``Fibre optic vs. satellite: What's 
the difference?'' Airband.co.uk, accessed December 3, 2024, https://
www.airband.co.uk/fibre-optic-vs-satellite-difference/.
    \4\ Of course, other nuances exist too, such as how these means of 
communications transmission can interact.
    \5\ United Nations International Telecommunication Union, ``Cable 
Landing Stations: Building, Structuring, Negotiating and Risk,'' 2, 
2017, https://www.itu.int/en/ITU-D/Regional-Presence/
AsiaPacific/SiteAssets/Pages/Events/2017/Submarine%20Cable/submarine-
cables-for-Pacific-
Islands-Countries/Cable%20Landing%20Stations%20SNCC.pdf, 2.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    As of September 2024, according to TeleGeography, there are 532 
cable systems ``in service'' (actively operating) around the world--
with another 77 cable systems planned and on the way.\6\ This number is 
continually growing, due to companies' investments, and for some 
countries, governments' investments, in the infrastructure; increased 
digital connectivity; growing consumer and business use of online 
services with greater data demands; and new data center demands driven 
by the explosion of cloud service provider infrastructure and the 
explosion of companies and other organizations training and deploying 
artificial intelligence (AI) and machine learning (ML) applications, 
among others.\7\ Even systems like 5G telecommunications networks will 
likely increase submarine cable demands in some form or another, as the 
mobile telecom networks send more and more data to, and retrieve more 
and more data from, Internet data servers and cloud infrastructure 
located around the world. All to say, submarine cables are critical to 
global communication flows--and the modern Internet as we know it would 
not exist without this subsea cable network.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \6\ Lane Burdette, ``How Many Submarine Cables Are There, Anyway?'' 
TeleGeography.com, September 9, 2024, https://blog.telegeography.com/
how-many-submarine-cables-are-there-anyway.
    \7\ See, e.g., Ibid.; Emma Chervek, ``Ciena CTO talks subsea 
cables, data center efficiency vs. demand,'' SDXCentral.com, November 
2, 2023, https://www.sdxcentral.com/articles/interview/ciena-cto-talks-
subsea-cables-data-center-efficiency-vs-demand/2023/11/; Diana 
Goovaerts, ``Thanks to cloud, hyperscalers are changing the way subsea 
cables make landfall,'' Fierce-Network.com, September 26, 2023, https:/
/www.fierce-network.com/data-center/hyperscalers-are-changing-way-
subsea-cables-make-landfall.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Private-sector American companies have long played a pivotal role 
in the financing, construction, laying, and management of submarine 
cables connected to the United States and between other countries 
around the world.\8\ Historically, cable investment and ownership from 
the United States was led by firms such as AT&T and Verizon. Today, the 
dominant U.S. investors in and owners of submarine cables are Alphabet 
(Google), Amazon, Meta (Facebook), and Microsoft.\9\ These four 
companies have invested in and bought major capacity on dozens of 
subsea cables around the world in recent years,\10\ making clear that 
they do not just have outsized influence in areas such as cloud 
computing, social media, e-commerce, and search but physical Internet 
infrastructure under the ocean. Alphabet, Amazon, Meta, and Microsoft's 
investment ramp-up has been tremendous. In roughly a decade, the 
content providers (such as Meta and Alphabet) went from consuming 6.3 
percent of total international cable capacity to 69 percent of total 
international cable capacity, and these four companies went from 
investing in only one long-distance subsea cable to investing in dozens 
and dozens.\11\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \8\ For an excellent discussion and analysis of some of this 
history, see: Nicole Starosielski, The Undersea Network (Durham: Duke 
University Press, 2015).
    \9\ See, e.g., Global Data, ``Hyperscalers turning the tide in 
subsea cables,'' Yahoo! Finance, December 6, 2024, https://
finance.yahoo.com/news/hyperscalers-turning-tide-subsea-cables-15070
5832.html.
    \10\ Alan Mauldin, ``A (Refreshed) List of Content Providers' 
Submarine Cable Holdings,'' TeleGeography.com, June 27, 2024, https://
blog.telegeography.com/telegeography-content-providers-submarine-cable-
holdings-list-new.
    \11\ Andrew Blum and Carey Baraka, ``Sea change,'' Rest of World, 
May 10, 2022, https://restofworld.org/2022/google-meta-underwater-
cables/, citing TeleGeography data; Global Data, ``Hyperscalers turning 
the tide in subsea cables.''
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Looking forward, these four companies are going to spend even more 
money on subsea cables and increase their influence over the global 
infrastructure even further in the next decade. Just several days 
before this hearing, for instance, TechCrunch reported that Meta is 
planning to build a new subsea cable more than 40,000 kilometers 
(24,855 miles) long that could require more than $10 billion in 
investment--with Meta to be the cable's sole owner and user.\12\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \12\ Ingrid Lunden, ``Meta plans to build a $10B subsea cable 
spanning the world, sources say,'' TechCrunch, November 29, 2024, 
https://techcrunch.com/2024/11/29/meta-plans-to-build-a-10b-subsea-
cable-spanning-the-world-sources-say/.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Worldwide, a variety of entities are involved in financing, 
constructing, laying, and managing submarine cables. As of September 
2021, for example, 65 percent of submarine cables had a single owner 
and 33 percent had multiple owners (and 2 percent without readily 
accessible ownership data).\13\ Approximately 59 percent of cables had 
only private owners, 19 percent had all state owners, and 19 percent 
had both private and state owners (and 3 percent without readily 
accessible data).\14\ The organizations involved in different elements 
of the submarine cable supply chain, including financing, are wide-
ranging: from content providers such as Google; to large, traditional 
telecommunications companies like Vodafone, Airtel, and Algar Telecom; 
to investment firms like SoftBank; to subsea cable manufacturers like 
SubCom, Alcatel, and Huawei Marine; to state-owned entities such as 
Djibouti Telecom, Instituto Costarricense de Electricidad, and the 
Telecommunication Infrastructure Company of Iran; and many more. Not 
every country has what are typically considered large Internet and 
platform companies driving submarine cable investments.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \13\ Sherman, Cyber Defense Across the Ocean Floor, 7.
    \14\ Ibid., 9.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Submarine cable projects are highly expensive, resource intensive, 
and logistically complex. It is worth reemphasizing that it has been 
and will likely remain a largely positive--and necessary--fact that so 
many different organizations around the world are able to collaborate 
on continuing to build out the global submarine cable network to meet 
resiliency challenges and deliver speed, bandwidth, and so on. 
Likewise, the U.S. private sector has played a significant role in 
helping to build out the global subsea cable network, and it is 
essential for them to be able to continue doing so. At the same time, 
however, there are considerable risks to submarine cables--and, 
related, to national security--that demand policymaking and other 
involvement from the U.S. government.
Risks to Submarine Cables
    There are many threats and risks to the global submarine cable 
network. These threats span accidents (responsible for most damage to 
subsea cables each year), natural weather events, and persistent, 
ongoing risks of espionage, sabotage, disruption, and supply chain 
infiltration from foreign actors, particularly from the Chinese and 
Russian governments. Such threats, particularly from Beijing and 
Moscow, put at risk not just the global cable network and its 
cybersecurity and resilience--but U.S. national security.
    Most of the publicly documented instances of damage and disruption 
to submarine cables around the world are due to accidents, such as 
boats moving close to a shoreline, not properly checking their maps for 
cables in the area, and then accidentally ripping up or damaging a 
cable with a dragging anchor. Other incidents of damage and disruption, 
though far less frequent than accidents, are caused by natural weather 
events, such as underwater earthquakes, underwater volcanic eruptions, 
and abrasion and erosion that damage cables and require repairs.\15\ In 
May 2024, for example, the International Cable Protection Committee 
said that more than 80 percent of all cable outages and breaks are due 
to fishing and anchoring incidents.\16\ There are typically hundreds of 
incidents of damage to submarine cables reported every year (lately, 
around 150-200 annually),\17\ and most of those incidents--as with the 
vast majority of all damage to subsea cables since 1959--fall into the 
category of accidents caused in shallow water.\18\ It is important to 
recognize this data for at least two reasons: companies and governments 
need to keep ensuring robust, rapid repairs to maintain the global 
subsea cable network's resilience; and the U.S. government needs to 
ensure its understanding of the cable landscape incorporates this data 
and does not get distracted by occasional media stories on scenarios 
such as sharks attacking subsea cables.\19\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \15\ Mike Clare, Submarine Cable Protection and the Environment 
(Portsmouth: International Cable Protection Committee, March 2021), 
https://www.iscpc.org/publications/submarine-cable-protection-and-the-
environment/ICPC_Public_EU_March%202021.pdf, 4-5.
    \16\ Graham Evans, ``Report of the International Cable Protection 
Committee,'' Presentation for International Hydrographic Organization: 
Hydrographic Services and Standards Committee, May 27-31, 2024, https:/
/iho.int/uploads/user/Services%20and%20Standards/HSSC/HSSC
16/HSSC16_2024_07.10A_EN_ICPC%20activities%20 affecting%20HSSC.pdf, 5.
    \17\ International Telecommunication Union, ``Launch of 
international advisory body to support resilience of submarine telecom 
cables,'' ITU.int, November 29, 2024, https://www.itu.int/en/
mediacentre/Pages/PR-2024-11-29-advisory-body-submarine-cable-
resilience.aspx.
    \18\ Clare, Submarine Cable Protection and the Environment, 4-5.
    \19\ See, e.g., Peter H. Lewis, ``Phone Company Finds Sharks 
Cutting In,'' The New York Times, June 11, 1987, Section A, Page 1; Tim 
Starks, ``Sharks, earthquakes and cyberattacks: The threats to undersea 
cables,'' The Washington Post, June 28, 2023, https://www.washing
tonpost.com/politics/2023/06/28/sharks-earthquakes-cyberattacks-
threats-undersea-cables/. See also: ``Sharks are not the Nemesis of the 
Internet--ICPC Findings,'' International Cable Protection Committee, 
July 1, 2015.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    There are also routine risks to submarine cables that result from 
criminals and other malicious actors looking to exploit vulnerabilities 
in technological systems and take advantage of companies with 
insufficient investments in basic cybersecurity best-practices, such as 
comprehensive multifactor authentication, robust encryption, access 
controls, audits, continuous monitoring, supply chain security 
assessments, vendor and contractor controls, meaningful empowerment and 
resourcing of company decision-makers and staff focused on 
cybersecurity, and so on.
    At the same time, however, the data on ships accidentally dragging 
their anchors and telecoms getting hacked by criminals does not 
adequately capture another important risk set: risks from sophisticated 
foreign threat actors, particularly the Chinese and Russian 
governments.
    Espionage: Submarine cables are a potential surveillance goldmine. 
For well over a century, nations have used their access to cables to 
conduct espionage, such as when British intelligence, in the late 
nineteenth century, used an international hub of telegram cables in 
Porthcurno to gain eavesdropping advantage.\20\ Today's submarine 
cables carry enormous volumes of data--as mentioned, 99 percent of all 
intercontinental Internet traffic in the world. Foreign actors can 
potentially tap into these cables at multiple points throughout the 
cable route (e.g., as the cable is exposed above water when coming up 
on the shoreline, at landing stations, by putting a cable landing point 
in a place under state control) and in the cable supply chain (e.g., 
during installation, repairs), including by hacking into the remote, 
internet-connected software systems (and the other systems around them) 
that companies increasingly use to manage submarine cable networks.\21\ 
These latter systems can increase the cybersecurity attack surface for 
cable networks. The many actors involved in cable financing, 
construction, laying, management, and repair also create opportunities 
for governments and government-linked actors to exert influence over 
submarine cables and the broader submarine cable network, such as by 
legally requiring or extralegally coercing companies or individuals at 
those companies to assist with government surveillance operations.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \20\ Ben Buchanan, The Hacker and the State: Cyber Attacks and the 
New Normal of Geopolitics (Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 2020), 
16-17.
    \21\ See, e.g., DJ Pangburn, ``Wiretapping Undersea Fiber Optics Is 
Easy: It's Just a Matter of Money,'' VICE, July 22, 2013, https://
www.vice.com/en/article/undersea-cable-surveillance-is-easy-its-just-a-
matter-of-money/; Jonathan E. Hillman, Securing the Subsea Network: A 
Primer for Policymakers (Washington, D.C.: Center for Strategic & 
International Studies, March 2021), https://www.csis.org/analysis/
securing-subsea-network-primer-policymakers, 10; Sherman, Cyber Defense 
Across the Ocean Floor, 17.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Damage and Disruption: Malicious actors could also damage cables 
with the intent of disrupting traffic flows or blacking out subsea 
cable traffic to an area. To be clear, in most cases, chopping a subsea 
cable is not going to sever an entire country's internet. (There are 
some narrow cases where this is possible, such as when a devastating 
volcanic eruption in 2022 off the coast of Tonga damaged a submarine 
cable and knocked out the country's Internet connectivity.)\22\ Nor is 
one cable cut going to bring down the global Internet and knock the 
world's communications offline. But damaging or destroying cables in 
certain regions can disrupt some data flows, have the effect of 
encouraging traffic to flow via other means (e.g., through a new point 
from which traffic can be intercepted), force repair ships to be sent 
out, and much more. There is much discussion in the submarine cable 
space, and especially among academics and industry experts working at 
the United Nations and other bodies, of norms--including norms of what 
governments will and will not do to submarine cables. While these are 
important discussions, including insofar as they encourage dialogue 
between countries, it is impractical to think that in a wartime, armed 
conflict, or crisis scenario, a country with sophisticated military and 
intelligence capabilities would not be willing to violate what some 
consider a norm and attack submarine cable infrastructure. (Of course, 
some would hold this norm does not even exist now.) This is especially 
the case when considering the normative postures of governments in 
Beijing and Moscow.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \22\ Ian Ralby and Justin Sherman, ``Tonga's Devastating Volcanic 
Eruption Has Left the Island Without Internet,'' Slate, January 21, 
2022, https://slate.com/technology/2022/01/tonga-volcano-internet-
underseas-cables.html.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Strategic Network-Shaping: At a higher level, cable construction 
and maintenance can provide strategic value to governments. Many 
private-sector and government actors, frequently in collaboration, are 
involved in important submarine cable construction activities. Building 
more cables in and of itself, in a sense, arguably increases the 
resilience of the global Internet in absolutist terms: there are new 
routes over which data can travel in the event of failure. But choosing 
where, when, and how to build cables is also a way to shape where 
global Internet traffic is routed.\23\ Changes to traffic routing 
patterns generate profits for companies and can move new volumes of 
traffic through different countries' borders--which can enable data 
interception and the development of technological dependence.\24\ This 
is an important consideration as authoritarian governments increasingly 
work to reshape the internet's physical topology (structure) and 
digital behavior by exerting control over companies.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \23\ This is reflected in the fact that ``traffic that appears to 
be traveling via separate network paths could potentially be relying on 
the same physical resource.'' Zachary S. Bischof, Romain Fontugne, and 
Fabian E. Bustamante, ``Untangling the world-wide mesh of undersea 
cables,'' HotNets '18: Proceedings of the 17th ACM Workshop on Hot 
Topics in Networks (November 2018): 78-84, https://dl.acm.org/doi/abs/
10.1145/3286062.3286074, 81.
    \24\ Sherman, Cyber Defense Across the Ocean Floor, 10.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    For example, among other events that underscore national security 
risks to submarine cables:

   Cable Cuts in Baltic Sea: In November 2024, a Chinese bulk 
        carrier, the Yi Peng 3, dragged its anchor along the Baltic 
        Sea's seabed for over 100 miles and severed two undersea 
        cables: one between Sweden and Lithuania and another between 
        Finland and Germany.\25\ When the ship traveled through the 
        Baltic Sea, it also crossed over four gas and oil pipelines, a 
        power line, and another subsea cable under construction.\26\ As 
        others have already noted, it is extremely unlikely a ship 
        would accidentally have an anchor drag for 100 miles without 
        immediately noticing the impacts on speed. Germany's defense 
        minister has said the damage appears to be sabotage, but did 
        not yet specify any further evidence.\27\ Investigations are 
        reportedly still unfolding in Europe, and complicating the 
        situation further is that the ship originally departed from 
        Vistino, Russia.\28\ (As Lithuania's Foreign Minister 
        commented, this incident, to him suspiciously, follows a 
        Chinese-registered vessel damaging two subsea cables in the 
        Baltic Sea in October 2023.)\29\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \25\ Bojan Pancevski, ``Chinese Ship's Crew Suspected of 
Deliberately Dragging Anchor for 100 Miles to Cut Baltic Cables,'' The 
Wall Street Journal, November 29, 2024, https://www.wsj.com/world/
europe/chinese-ship-suspected-of-deliberately-dragging-anchor-for-100-
miles-to-cut-baltic-cables-395f65d1; Bojan Pancevski, ``Russia 
Suspected as Baltic Undersea Cables Cut in Apparent Sabotage,'' The 
Wall Street Journal, November 20, 2024, https://www.wsj.com/world/
europe/russia-suspected-as-baltic-undersea-cables-cut-in-apparent-
sabotage-801cb392. 
    \26\ Sophie Tanno, ``Sweden asks China to cooperate in Baltic Sea 
cable investigation,'' CNN, November 29, 2024, https://www.cnn.com/
2024/11/29/europe/sweden-china-baltic-sea-cable-intl/index.html.
    \27\ Shweta Sharma, ``Sweden formally asks China to cooperate with 
investigations into undersea cables damage,'' The Independent, November 
30, 2024, https://www.the-independent.com/asia/china/sweden-china-
cable-damage-baltic-sea-b2656390.html.
    \28\ Tanno, ``Sweden asks China to cooperate in Baltic Sea cable 
investigation.''
    \29\ Sophia Besch and Erik Brown, ``A Chinese-Fallged Ship Cut 
Baltic Sea Internet Cables. This Time, Europe Was More Prepared,'' 
Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, December 3, 2024, https://
carnegieendowment.org/emissary/2024/12/baltic-sea-internet-cable-cut-
europe-nato-security?lang=en.

   Attempted Cyber Attack or Intrusion in Hawaii: In 2022, 
        agents at the Department of Homeland Security's Homeland 
        Security Investigations arm said they disrupted what they 
        described as a cyber attack on a critical undersea cable 
        linking Hawaii and the Pacific.\30\ DHS said ``an international 
        hacking group'' had carried out a ``significant breach 
        involving a private company's servers associated with an 
        undersea cable'' and that ``HSI agents and international law 
        enforcement partners in several countries were able to make an 
        arrest'' \31\--suggesting a threat actor or actors based 
        outside of the United States.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \30\ ``Federal agents disrupted cyberattack targeting phone, 
Internet infrastructure on Oahu,'' Hawaii News Now, April 12, 2022, 
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/04/13/hsi-agents-honolulu-disrupted-
cyberattack-undersea-cable-critical-telecommunications/.
    \31\ AJ Vicens, ``DHS investigators say they foiled cyberattack on 
undersea Internet cable in Hawaii,'' CyberScoop, April 13, 2022, 
https://cyberscoop.com/undersea-cable-operator-hacked-hawaii/.

   Damages in South China Sea: Cables around Taiwan have been 
        cut over two dozen times in the last five years, typically due 
        to Chinese vessels, or vessels that are suspected to be from 
        China, severing the cables.\32\ Chinese sand dredgers have 
        reportedly accounted for at least 10 of these breaks.\33\ Some 
        experts, in response, have noted both the frequency of 
        accidental submarine cable damage around the world--and others 
        the strangeness of many similar, repeat incidents in a highly 
        monitored and contested zone of the world.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \32\ Huizhong Wu and Johnson Lai, ``Taiwan suspects Chinese ships 
cut islands' Internet cables,'' Associated Press, April 18, 2023, 
https://apnews.com/article/matsu-taiwan-internet-cables-cut-china-
65f10f5f73a346fa788436366d7a7c70.
    \33\ Rachel Cheung, `A Warning Sign': Chinese Ships Accused of 
Cutting Off Internet to a Taiwanese Island,'' VICE, March 17, 2023, 
https://www.vice.com/en/article/taiwan-internet-cables-matsu-china/.

   Chinese Coast Guard near Vietnam: The Washington Post 
        reported in October 2024 that, in April 2024, a Vietnamese 
        naval vessel was escorting a crew aboard a private subsea cable 
        ship within Vietnam's 200-mile exclusive economic zone, when a 
        Chinese coast guard vessel confronted the ships. (As noted in 
        the story, this is hundreds of miles from the Chinese 
        mainland.) Then, ``the Chinese vessel came within one mile of 
        the repair ship and demanded over radio to know the nature of 
        the ship's activities, according to executives at the cable 
        company as well as photos of the encounter between the two 
        vessels and text messages from the repair crew on the day of 
        the incident . . . After the Vietnamese naval ship withdrew 
        several miles away, the Chinese ship spent a day circling the 
        repair vessel, then left it, and the crew finished the job.'' 
        The company's head of maintenance said it was clearly a ``show 
        of strength'' by the Chinese coast guard ship.\34\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \34\ Rebecca Tan, ``Escalating contest over South China Sea 
disrupts international cable system,'' The Washington Post, October 3, 
2024, https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/10/03/south-china-sea-
underwater-cables/.

   Russia's GUGI: US officials told CNN in October 2024 that 
        Russia is building up its fleet of surface ships, submarines, 
        and naval drones through the General Staff Main Directorate for 
        Deep Sea Research (GUGI). One official expressed concern 
        ``about heightened Russian naval activity worldwide'' and that 
        ``Russia's decision calculus for damaging U.S. and allied 
        undersea critical infrastructure may be changing,'' which could 
        leverage the capabilities mainly being developed through 
        GUGI.\35\ The GUGI works independently from Russian naval 
        command and answers directly to the Ministry of Defense, as an 
        intelligence and special mission organization.\36\ It operates 
        specialized submarines that can operate in extreme depths 
        (i.e., able to reach undersea cables), surface vessels that 
        collect intelligence, and remotely operated and autonomous 
        underwater vehicles hosted on those surface vessels.\37\ For 
        instance, in November 2024, the Russian ship Yantar entered 
        Irish-controlled waters and moved around an area with critical 
        energy pipelines and submarine cables;\38\ Yantar is one of the 
        surface fleet ships, with intelligence-gathering capabilities, 
        operated by the GUGI.\39\ This is one of several such incidents 
        in recent years, as analysts of the Russian military warn about 
        Moscow's increased emphasis on its submarine fleet.\40\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \35\ Jim Sciutto, ``Exclusive: U.S. sees increasing risk of Russian 
`sabotage' of key undersea cables by secretive military unit,'' CNN, 
September 6, 2024, https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/06/politics/us-sees-
increasing-risk-of-russian-sabotage-undersea-cables/index.html.
    \36\ Michael Kofman, ``Fire aboard AS-31 Losharik: Brief 
Overview,'' RussianMilitary
Analysis.wordpress.com, July 3, 2019, https://
russianmilitaryanalysis.wordpress.com/2019/07/03/fire-aboard-as-31-
losharik-brief-overview/.
    \37\ Sidharth Kaushal, ``Stalking the Seabed: How Russia Targets 
Critical Undersea Infrastructure,'' Royal United Services Institute, 
May 25, 2023, https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/
commentary/stalking-seabed-how-russia-targets-critical-undersea-
infrastructure.
    \38\ Lisa O'Carroll, ``Russian spy ship escorted away from area 
with critical cables in Irish Sea,'' The Guardian, November 16, 2024, 
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/16/russian-spy-ship-
escorted-away-from-internet-cables-in-irish-sea.
    \39\ Kaushal, ``Stalking the Seabed''; H. I. Sutton, ``Russian Spy 
Ship Yantar Loitering Near Trans-Atlantic Internet Cables,'' Naval 
News, August 19, 2021, https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2021/08/
russian-spy-ship-yantar-loitering-near-trans-atlantic-internet-cables/.
    \40\ Andrii Ryzhenko, ``Russia Looks to Target Achilles' Heel of 
Western Economies on Ocean Floor,'' Jamestown, September 17, 2024, 
https://web.archive.org/web/20240918081949/ https://jamestown.org/
program/russia-looks-to-target-achilles-heel-of-western-economies-on-
ocean-floor/; Mark Galeotti, ``Bear underwater: Russia's undersea 
capabilities,'' Council on Geostrategy, June 26, 2023, https://
www.geostrategy.org.uk/britains-world/bear-underwater-russias-undersea-
capabilities/; Ellie Cook, ``NATO Has a Russian Submarine Problem,'' 
Newsweek, May 13, 2023, https://www.newsweek.com/nato-russia-
submarines-nuclear-deterrent-ukraine-arctic-pacific-fleet-kola-
peninsula-baltic-1798368.

   Cable Cuts Amid Houthi Red Sea Conflict: As conflict erupted 
        in the Red Sea in March 2024, three submarine cables were cut. 
        There was speculation at first that the Houthi rebels 
        deliberately sabotaged the cables,\41\ with the supposed means 
        unspecified, but the White House National Security Council 
        subsequently said that the three cables were likely severed 
        after the Houthis attacked a ship, it started sinking, and its 
        anchor caught the cables.\42\ The incident increased the risk 
        of installing new cables in the Red Sea and especially of ships 
        going out to repair the ones that were severed as the conflict 
        continued.\43\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \41\ Jon Gambrell, ``3 Red Sea data cables cut as Houthis launch 
more attacks in the vital waterway,'' Associated Press, March 4, 2024, 
https://apnews.com/article/red-sea-undersea-cables-yemen-houthi-rebels-
attacks-b53051f61a41bd6b357860bbf0b0860a.
    \42\ Eleanor Watson, ``Ship sunk by Houthis likely responsible for 
damaging 3 telecommunications cables under Red Sea,'' CBS News, March 
6, 2024, https://www.cbsnews.com/news/houthis-ship-cutting-red-sea-
telecommunications-cables/.
    \43\ Nadine Hawkins, ``The underwater digital super highway,'' 
CapacityMedia.com, March 11, 2024, https://www.capacitymedia.com/
article/ 2cxmm34wcyeqqxqoo54w0/big-interview/the-underwater-digtal-
super-highway; Tim Stronge, ``What We Know (And Don't) About Multiple 
Cable Faults in the Red Sea,'' TeleGeography, March 5, 2024, https://
blog.telegeography.com/what-we-know-and-dont-about-multiple-cable-
faults-in-the-red-sea.

   Huawei Repairing Subsea Cables: Huawei Marine Networks, part 
        of Chinese telecom Huawei, had by October 2020 built or 
        repaired (by one estimate) roughly 25 percent of the world's 
        submarine cables.\44\ After the Trump administration issued 
        sanctions on Huawei, many companies stopped working with Huawei 
        Marine.\45\ In 2020, the UK company Global Marine Group sold 
        its 30 percent stake in Huawei Marine to the Hengtong Group, 
        China's largest power and fiber optic cable manufacturer.\46\ 
        The Hengtong Group then changed Huawei Marine's name to HMN 
        Technologies Co., Ltd., or HMN Tech (ostensibly, HMN as an 
        abbreviation of Huawei Marine Networks),\47\ though it has 
        neither helped the brand nor boosted its economic position. 
        Today, Huawei Marine plays a seriously diminished role in 
        submarine cable repairs around the world compared to its market 
        stature just a few years ago.\48\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \44\ U.S. Federal Communications Commission. Process Reform for 
Executive Branch Review of Certain FCC Applications and Petitions 
Involving Foreign Ownership. FCC-20-133. Washington, D.C.: Federal 
Communications Commission, October 2020. https://www.fcc.gov/document/
fcc-improves-transparency-and-timeliness-foreign-ownership-review. 82.
    \45\ Anna Gross et al., ``How the U.S. is pushing China out of the 
internet's plumbing,'' Financial Times, June 13, 2023, https://
ig.ft.com/subsea-cables/.
    \46\ Global Marine Group's subsidiary Global Marine Systems Limited 
established Huawei Marine Networks as a joint venture with Huawei 
Technology in Tianjin, China, in 2008. Winston Qiu, ``Global Marine 
Group Fully Divests Stake in Huawei Marine Networks,'' Submarine
Networks.com, June 6, 2020, https://www.submarinenetworks.com/en/
?view=article&id=1334
:global-marine-.
    \47\ HMN Tech, ``Huawei Marine Networks Rebrands as HMN 
Technologies,'' HMNTech.com, November 3, 2020, https://www.hmntech.com/
enPressReleases/37764.jhtml.
    \48\ Conversations with submarine cable industry experts.

    These are just some examples of the reasons for national security 
concern. And analyzing the potential threats to the network, whether 
accidental or intentional, and the available risk mitigations and 
incident responses are still critical to submarine cable security in 
any case.
Zooming In: National Security Risks from China and Russia
    The Chinese government is highly active in the submarine cable 
arena through a variety of companies. Some of the top Chinese investors 
in and operators of submarine cables are China Mobile, China Telecom, 
and China Unicom. For example:

   The Asia Direct Cable (ADC) is expected to be ready for 
        service in Q4 2024. It has landing points in China, Japan, the 
        Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, and Vietnam. Its owners 
        include China Telecom and China Unicom.\49\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \49\ ``Asia Direct Cable (ADC),'' submarinecablemap.com, accessed 
December 4, 2024, https://www.submarinecablemap.com/submarine-cable/
asia-direct-cable-adc.

   The Asia Pacific Gateway (APG) is active and has landing 
        points in China, Japan, Malaysia, Singapore, South Korea, 
        Taiwan, Thailand, and Vietnam. Its owners include China Mobile, 
        China Telecom, and China Unicom.\50\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \50\ ``Asia Pacific Gateway (APG),'' submarinecablemap.com, 
accessed December 4, 2024, https://www.submarinecablemap.com/submarine-
cable/asia-pacific-gateway-apg.

   The SeaMeWe-5 is active and has landing points in 
        Bangladesh, Djibouti, Egypt, France, Indonesia, Italy, 
        Malaysia, Myanmar, Oman, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Sri 
        Lanka, Turkey, the UAE, and Yemen. Its owners include China 
        Mobile, China Telecom, and China Unicom.\51\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \51\ ``SeaMeWe-5,'' submarinecablemap.com, accessed December 4, 
2024, https://www.subma
rinecablemap.com/submarine-cable/seamewe-5.

   The New Cross Pacific (NCP) cable system is active and has 
        landing points in China, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and the 
        United States. Its owners include China Mobile, China Telecom, 
        and China Unicom.\52\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \52\ ``New Cross Pacific (NCP) Cable System,'' 
submarinecablemap.com, accessed December 6, 2024, https://
www.submarinecablemap.com/submarine-cable/new-cross-pacific-ncp-cable-
system.

    China Mobile, China Telecom, and China Unicom are all state-owned 
telecommunications companies. They began significantly increasing their 
investments in submarine cables in 2021.\53\ This is a potential 
national security risk, as they are directly owned by the Chinese 
government and therefore subject to Chinese government decisions about 
cable projects--including the possibility of legal and extralegal 
demands and pressures to assist with government objectives, such as 
supply chain compromise or espionage. (The FCC, underscoring these 
risks, denied a China Mobile telecommunication services license 
application in 2019,\54\ revoked China Telecom Americas' Section 214 
authority in 2021,\55\ revoked China Unicom Americas' telecom services 
authority in 2022,\56\ and added China Telecom Americas and China 
Mobile to the covered list in 2022.)\57\ In fact, many Chinese 
investors in submarine cables globally are state-owned or state-
controlled, widening the same national security risk. For example, 
these firms include:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \53\ Sherman, Cyber Defense Across the Ocean Floor, 13.
    \54\ U.S. Federal Communications Commission. FCC Denies China 
Mobile Telecom Services Application. FCC-19-38. Washington, D.C.: 
Federal Communications Commission, May 2019. https://www.fcc.gov/
document/fcc-denies-china-mobile-telecom-services-application-0.
    \55\ U.S. Federal Communications Commission. China Telecom Americas 
Order on Revocation and Termination. FCC-21-114. Washington, D.C.: 
Federal Communications Commission, November 2021. https://www.fcc.gov/
document/china-telecom-americas-order-revocation-and-termination.
    \56\ U.S. Federal Communications Commission. China Unicom Americas 
Order on Revocation. FCC-22-9. Washington, D.C.: Federal Communications 
Commission, February 2022. https://www.fcc.gov/document/china-unicom-
americas-order-revocation.
    \57\ U.S. Federal Communications Commission. Announcement of 
Additions to the Covered List. DA-22-320. Washington, D.C.: Federal 
Communications Commission, March 2022. https://www.fcc.gov/document/
announcement-additions-covered-list.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
               Entity                 Relationship to Chinese Government
------------------------------------------------------------------------
China Mobile                         State-owned
China Telecom                        State-owned
China Unicom                         State-owned
CITIC Telecom International          State-controlled
CTM                                  State-controlled
------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It is additionally possible that the Chinese government legally 
compels or extralegally coerces a privately owned Chinese company to 
assist in these activities--though the risk assessment in those 
scenarios can be complex and depend on a variety of case-specific 
factors and insights. And it is also possible that organizations that 
do not appear to be operating out of China, such as certain consortium 
groups, are in fact subject to Chinese government control. This is not 
to feed conspiracy theories, but to point out cases such as the 
National Grid Corporation of the Philippines: nominally, it is only 
partly owned by a Chinese state-owned electrical company, but CNN 
reported in 2019 on an internal Filipino government report stating that 
the Corporation was in fact ``under the full control'' of the Chinese 
government and vulnerable to disruption.\58\ The National Grid 
Corporation of the Philippines is the sole owner of an undersea cable 
connecting two parts of the country--a cable that is also supplied by 
HMN Tech, previously known as Huawei Marine.\59\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \58\ James Griffiths, ``China can shut off the Philippines' power 
grid at any time, leaked report warns,'' CNN, November 26, 2019, 
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/25/asia/philippines-china-power-grid-
intl-hnk/index.html; CNN Philippines Staff, ``Carpio: Chinese `control' 
of national power grid a cause for concern,'' CNN, November 26, 2019, 
https://www.cnnphilippines.com/news/2019/11/26/Antonio-Carpio-Chinese-
control-NGCP.html.
    \59\ ``Sorsogon-Samar Submarine Fiber Optical Interconnection 
Project (SSSFOIP),'' submarinecablemap.com, accessed December 7, 2024, 
https://www.submarinecablemap.com/submarine-cable/sorsogon-samar-
submarine-fiber-optical-interconnection-project-sssfoip.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Beyond financing, construction, and management, China's involvement 
in submarine cable repairs is also a national security concern. 
Enormous volumes of data traverse submarine cables every day. It is 
difficult to imagine a scenario in which the Chinese government, with 
its legal and extralegal ability to coerce technology companies, would 
not consider placing specific pressure on submarine cable repair 
companies--or even an individual or individuals at those companies--to 
assist with tapping into or otherwise compromising that infrastructure 
for its own advantage.
    The U.S. has, in many ways, at least one success story in 
mitigating this national security risk: the case of Huawei Marine, aka 
HMN Tech. Huawei Marine went, in just a few years, from repairing or 
building roughly 25 percent of the world's subsea cables to a 
significantly diminished role in the global network. However, Huawei 
Marine aka HMN Tech does not stand alone. Other Chinese firms such as 
S.B. Submarine Systems (SBSS) are active in submarine cable repair. 
SBSS has repaired cables whose owners have included U.S. companies, and 
its vessels have reportedly, and highly unusually, turned off their 
transponders at sea and hidden their locations from radio and satellite 
tracking services, including when traveling and making stops around 
Singapore, Hong Kong, the Yellow Sea, and even Taiwan.\60\ Chinese 
cable repair ship companies such as SBSS present serious national 
security risks that need to be assessed and considered, including by 
companies and partners operating in the Asia-Pacific region.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \60\ Dustin Volz et al., ``U.S. Fears Undersea Cables Are 
Vulnerable to Espionage From Chinese Repair Ships,'' The Wall Street 
Journal, May 19, 2024, https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/
china-internet-cables-repair-ships-93fd6320. See also a comment in: 
Daniel F. Runde, Erin L. Murphy, and Thomas Bryja, Safeguarding Subsea 
Cables: Protecting Cyber Infrastructure amid Great Power Competition 
(Washington, D.C.: Center for Strategic and International Studies, 
August 2024), https://www.csis.org/analysis/safeguarding-subsea-cables-
protecting-cyber-infrastructure-amid-great-power-competition.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Russian government, for its part, is not as active as the 
Chinese government in financing and constructing submarine cables 
globally. But the Russian government has clearly demonstrated a pattern 
of thinking about how to physically target and seize control of 
Internet and technological infrastructure to further control over a 
population (e.g., as it does at home) and to advance its security 
objectives. Even compared to the views held by the Russian security 
services in the 1990s and early 2000s, and to the conspiratorialism and 
concern that cemented in the Kremlin in the late 2000s and early 2010s, 
the Kremlin has an increasingly paranoid, securitized view of the 
global Internet and of technology.\61\ This, coupled with Moscow's 
aforementioned investments in GUGI, suggests a troubling possibility of 
Russian government willingness to target submarine cable and other 
undersea infrastructure for intelligence or military purposes. In that 
vein, the U.S. intelligence community said in its annual 2024 threat 
assessment that ``Russia maintains its ability to target critical 
infrastructure, including underwater cables and industrial control 
systems, in the United States as well as in allied and partner 
countries.'' \62\ Its annual threat assessment from the year prior 
noted Russia not just maintains these capabilities but ``is 
particularly focused on improving its ability'' to use them, ``because 
compromising such infrastructure improves and demonstrates its ability 
to damage infrastructure during a crisis.'' \63\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \61\ Justin Sherman, Russia's Digital Tech Isolation: Domestic 
Innovation, Digital Fragmentation, and the Kremlin's Push to Replace 
Western Digital Technology (Washington, D.C.: Atlantic Council, July 
2024), https://dfrlab.org/2024/07/29/russias-digital-tech-isolationism/
; Andrei Soldatov and Irina Borogan, The Red Web: The Struggle Between 
Russia's Digital Dictators and the New Online Revolutionaries (New 
York: PublicAffairs, 2015).
    \62\ U.S. Office of the Director of National Intelligence. Annual 
Threat Assessment of the U.S. Intelligence Community. Washington, D.C.: 
Office of the Director of National Intelligence, February 2024. https:/
/www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/ATA-2024-Unclassified-
Report.pdf. 16.
    \63\ U.S. Office of the Director of National Intelligence. Annual 
Threat Assessment of the U.S. Intelligence Community. Washington, D.C.: 
Office of the Director of National Intelligence, February 2023. https:/
/www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/ATA-2023-Unclassified-
Report.pdf. 15.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    It is worth again emphasizing two points, which are not mutually 
exclusive:

   To avoid threat inflation and ensure an accurate picture of 
        the cable network landscape, it is important for U.S. 
        policymakers and the national security community to recognize 
        the current reality, based on publicly available data, where 
        the majority of damage and disruption to subsea cables is 
        accidental (e.g., a ship dragging an anchor close to a 
        shoreline), as well as caused by natural weather events (e.g., 
        underwater earthquakes), as industry has routinely and 
        repeatedly stressed.

   There are real national security risks facing submarine 
        cables, especially from the Chinese and Russian governments, 
        which may not be accounted for in that data, which often go 
        unconsidered or unprioritized by industry, and which require 
        tailored risk assessment, risk mitigation, and scenario 
        planning--such as for wartime or armed conflict possibilities.
The Vital Role of ``Team Telecom''
    When submarine cable companies speak publicly and privately about 
``security,'' and conceptualize their own approaches to submarine cable 
network ``security,'' they are typically speaking about--and thinking 
about--security in the sense of resilience.\64\ This focuses on how 
submarine cable companies and related organizations, such as 
governments supporting cable repairs, can ensure cables are quickly and 
reliably repaired in the event of damage or disruption. And this is an 
important function, including one performed by the U.S. private sector. 
Companies may also talk about cybersecurity measures for their systems, 
such as encryption, and physical access control measures for their 
facilities, such as fences and cameras around landing stations.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \64\ I have had numerous conversations with submarine cable 
companies in the United States and around the world about these issues, 
from technical specialists to executives, as well as other involved 
organizations.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    However, this approach to submarine cable ``security'' fails to 
capture the wide range of threats posed by foreign actors, including 
espionage, sabotage, disruption, supply chain infiltration, and the 
strategic shaping of the global submarine cable network counter to 
democratic interests. The frequent industry paradigm for subsea cable 
security also fails to appreciate and factor in the sophistication and 
persistence of the United States' foreign adversaries, particularly the 
Chinese and Russian governments, to a degree that far exceeds risks 
posed by accidental insider behavior and even criminals. Moreover, it 
does not consider how routine and important functions such as repairing 
a damaged cable may be difficult already in deep, rough waters, but 
another scenario entirely when--akin to the Houthi case--rockets or 
bullets are flying overhead. And this paradigm especially does not 
account for how a foreign actor may cast typical norms and practices 
(to the extent norms even exist) out the window in a wartime, armed 
conflict, or other crisis scenario.
    This is precisely why the U.S. government has an Executive Branch 
committee, with decades of bipartisan-supported work under its belt, to 
review submarine cable license applications in the United States and 
screen them for national security risks. The committee is ``Team 
Telecom.'' \65\ It does not handle every possible risk, such as the 
risk of a foreign military destroying or damaging a submarine cable in 
wartime, but it plays an important and necessary role in strategically 
mitigating national security risks of espionage and supply chain 
compromise--and in building a base of Executive Branch expertise about 
the national security risks facing telecom infrastructure.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \65\ As I describe in a report for the Hoover Institution, many 
U.S. government organizations are involved in submarine cable security, 
though for today's purposes I will focus on Team Telecom's role. See: 
Justin Sherman, Cybersecurity Under the Ocean: Submarine Cables and 
U.S. National Security (Stanford: Hoover Institution, January 2023), 
https://www.hoover.org/research/cybersecurity-under-ocean-submarine-
cables-and-us-national-security.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In 1995, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) issued a 
Report and Order stating that it would consider in foreign carrier 
applications ``any national security, law enforcement, foreign policy, 
and trade concerns raised by the Executive Branch.'' \66\ The FCC 
cemented this practice in 1997 with a Report and Order reiterating its 
interest in soliciting Executive Branch agencies' views on national 
security, law enforcement, foreign policy, and trade considerations\67\ 
vis-a-vis the FCC's Section 214 authority (certificates for foreign 
carriers),\68\ licenses for submarine cable landing stations, and 
petitions for declaratory rulings under the FCC's Section 310(b) 
authority (limiting foreign government and certain foreign ownership of 
telecom licenses).\69\ So, for more than 20 subsequent years, the FCC 
turned to an informal group of Executive Branch agencies--including the 
Departments of Defense, Homeland Security, State, and Justice, the U.S. 
Trade Representative, and the Commerce Department's National 
Telecommunications & Information Administration (NTIA)--to provide 
input, including national security input, on its application 
reviews.\70\ This included input on submarine cable license 
applications as well as proposed assignments or transfers of control of 
a license for a submarine cable landing.\71\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \66\ U.S. Federal Communications Commission. Market Entry and 
Regulation of Foreign-Affiliated Entities. FCC-95-475. Washington, 
D.C.: Federal Communications Commission, November 1995. https://
www.fcc.gov/document/market-entry-and-regulation-foreign-affiliated-
entities-0. 3897.
    \67\ U.S. Federal Communications Commission. Rules and Policies on 
Foreign Participation in the U.S. Telecommunications Market. FCC-97-
398. Washington, D.C.: Federal Communications Commission, November 
1997. https://www.fcc.gov/document/rules-and-policies-foreign-
participation-us-telecommunications. 29.
    \68\ 47 U.S. Code Sec. 214. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/
text/47/214.
    \69\ 47 U.S. Code Sec. 310. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/
text/47/310. See also: U.S. Federal Communications Commission, 
``Foreign Ownership Rules and Policies for Common Carrier, Aeronautical 
En Route and Aeronautical Fixed Radio Station Licensees,'' FCC.gov, 
accessed December 3, 2024, https://www.fcc.gov/general/foreign-
ownership-rules-and-policies-common-carrier-aeronautical-en-route-and-
aeronautical.
    \70\ U.S. Federal Communications Commission. Process Reform for 
Executive Branch Review of Certain FCC Applications and Petitions 
Involving Foreign Ownership. FCC-20-133. 2-3.
    \71\ Ibid.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In 2020, President Trump signed Executive Order 13913 that turned 
the ad hoc, informal group of agencies advising the FCC into a formal 
committee.\72\ Its new title became the Committee for the Assessment of 
Foreign Participation in the United States Telecommunications Services 
Sector--though it still is known by its prior name, Team Telecom. The 
Department of Justice chairs the committee, through its National 
Security Division, with committee members from the Department of 
Defense, Department of Homeland Security, and any other agency or 
department, or Assistant to the President, that the President 
designates. The E.O. also specified several committee advisors, from 
the Secretaries of State, Treasury, and Commerce to the Director of 
National Intelligence and the President's national security 
advisor.\73\ President Biden kept E.O. 13913 in place when he entered 
into office, underscoring consensus on this issue set of U.S. 
telecommunications cybersecurity and resilience, U.S. national 
security, and foreign adversaries such as Beijing.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \72\ Executive Order 13913. Establishing the Committee for the 
Assessment of Foreign Participation in the United States 
Telecommunications Services Sector. April 4, 2020. https://
www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/04/08/2020-07530/establishing-
the-committee-for-the-assessment-of-foreign-participation-in-the-
united-states.
    \73\ The full list of committee advisors as specified in E.O. 
13913: the Secretary of State; the Secretary of the Treasury; the 
Secretary of Commerce; the Director of the Office of Management and 
Budget; the United States Trade Representative; the Director of 
National Intelligence; the Administrator of General Services; the 
Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs; the Assistant 
to the President for Economic Policy; the Director of the Office of 
Science and Technology Policy; the Chair of the Council of Economic 
Advisers; and any other Assistant to the President, as the President 
determines appropriate.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From 2013 to 2019, the FCC referred an average of 15 percent of all 
international Section 214 and submarine cable applications to Team 
Telecom for review.\74\ Compared to other national security review 
programs, like the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States 
(CFIUS), this program has a relatively narrow, focused purview on a 
sector of activity with tremendous implications for U.S. economic and 
national security--and an area of tremendous interest to actors like 
the Chinese and Russian governments.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \74\ U.S. Federal Communications Commission. Process Reform for 
Executive Branch Review. FCC-20-133. 5.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Public Team Telecom actions, and recent demonstrations of its 
mitigation of potential national security risks, include:

   China Telecom: The FCC's aforementioned, 2021 revocation of 
        China Telecom's Section 214 authority was based on a Team 
        Telecom recommendation, unanimous from the committee's members. 
        Team Telecom found China Telecom to be a national security risk 
        because of the Chinese government's control over China Telecom, 
        the state-owned enterprise's inaccurate public representations 
        of its cybersecurity practices, the nature of China Telecom's 
        U.S. operations, and evolving technological threats from 
        Beijing.\75\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \75\ U.S. Department of Justice, ``Executive Branch Agencies 
Recommend the FCC Revoke and Terminate China Telecom's Authorizations 
to Provide International Telecommunications Services in the United 
States,'' Justice.gov, April 9, 2020, https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/
executive-branch-agencies-recommend-fcc-revoke-and-terminate-china-
telecom-s-authorizations.

   Pacific Light Cable Network (PLCN): Team Telecom recommended 
        in June 2020 that the FCC refuse to approve cable licensing for 
        the PLCN--a submarine cable involving Google, Facebook, a New 
        Jersey-based telecom, and a Hong Kong-based telecom owned by a 
        Chinese firm--because its routing of U.S. data through Hong 
        Kong allegedly posed a national security risk. One of Team 
        Telecom's specific concerns was that Beijing would compel the 
        Chinese owner of the Hong Kong subsidiary to access data on 
        U.S. persons, and other sensitive data and traffic, traversing 
        the cable. It cited the ``current national security 
        environment, including the PRC government's sustained efforts 
        to acquire the sensitive data of millions of U.S. persons'' as 
        well as the cable project's ``connections to PRC state-owned 
        carrier China Unicom'' as reasons for blocking the cable's 
        development.\76\ Google and Meta's subsidiaries then withdrew 
        their original FCC application and filed a new one with Hong 
        Kong removed--leaving the landing stations in the United 
        States, Taiwan, and Philippines--which Team Telecom recommended 
        the FCC approve, conditional on the companies' compliance with 
        national security agreements with the committee.\77\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \76\ U.S. Department of Justice, ``Team Telecom Recommends that the 
FCC Deny Pacific Light Cable Network System's Hong Kong Undersea Cable 
Connection to the United States,'' Justice.gov, June 17, 2020, https://
www.justice.gov/opa/pr/team-telecom-recommends-fcc-deny-pacific-light-
cable-network-system-s-hong-kong-undersea.
    \77\ U.S. Department of Justice, ``Team Telecom Recommends FCC 
Grant Google and Meta Licenses for Undersea Cable,'' Justice.gov, 
December 17, 2021, https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/team-telecom-
recommends-fcc-grant-google-and-meta-licenses-undersea-cable.

   ARCOS-1 Cable System: Team Telecom recommended in June 2022 
        that the FCC deny an application by ARCOS-1 USA Inc. and 
        A.Surnet Inc. to modify the ARCOS-1 Cable System--at the time, 
        between the United States, Mexico, Belize, Guatemala, Honduras, 
        Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama, Colombia, Venezuela, Curazao, 
        Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, Turks and Caicos Islands, 
        and the Bahamas\78\--to add a landing station in Cuba. It cited 
        three factors (non-exhaustive): that Cuba ``has long 
        represented a significant counterintelligence threat to the 
        United States,'' where its direct access to a landing station 
        could be leveraged to further that threat; the risk that 
        traffic not intended for Cuba could be misrouted by a provider 
        to send the traffic over the cable and to Cuba; and ``the Cuban 
        government's relationships with other foreign adversaries, 
        including the People's Republic of China and the Russian 
        Federation,'' which could enable information-sharing with those 
        governments.\79\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \78\ ``ARCOS,'' submarinecablemap.com, accessed December 5, 2024, 
https://www.subma
rinecablemap.com/submarine-cable/arcos; ``ARCOS-1,'' 
submarinenetworks.com, accessed December 5, 2024, https://
www.submarinenetworks.com/en/systems/brazil-us/arcos-1.
    \79\ U.S. Department of Justice, ``Team Telecom Recommends the FCC 
Deny Application to Directly Connect the United States to Cuba Through 
Subsea Cable,'' Justice.gov, November 30, 2022, https://
www.justice.gov/opa/pr/team-telecom-recommends-fcc-deny-application-
directly-connect-united-states-cuba-through.

    Team Telecom's work has consistently identified national security 
risks facing the United States through the submarine cable network, 
particularly vis-a-vis foreign ownership, foreign partnership, landing 
station, and supply chain risks from the Chinese government, Chinese 
state-owned telecommunications companies, and other Chinese government-
controlled entities. It has also done so in a sector where the 
traditional industry calculus around ``security'' and risk does not put 
U.S. national security at the center--and thinks about ``security'' in 
resilience-oriented ways, rather than additionally appreciating the 
nature of sophisticated foreign threat actors. Team Telecom has also 
built up a base of expertise within the U.S. government on this problem 
set and can provide those recommendations to companies, such as through 
national security agreements, on how to best approach and, if possible, 
mitigate national security risks that manifest through issues such as 
company cybersecurity practices, cable network routes, and foreign 
influence.
    The committee's work is also continually evolving. For example, the 
FCC issued a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking in November 2024, 
undertaking a major comprehensive review of its submarine cable rules 
in light of, among others, the ``significant'' evolution in the 
national security threat environment in the last two decades.\80\ These 
are welcome and strategically important efforts from the FCC to update 
national security review processes and regulations to ensure U.S. 
private-sector companies can keep playing an innovative, competitive 
role in the global telecommunications system--while simultaneously 
implementing national security reviews and safeguards to protect 
against fast-changing threats from foreign governments, especially 
Beijing and Moscow. Russia's full-on war against Ukraine, concerns 
about the Chinese government's potential invasion of Taiwan, other 
escalating security concerns with Beijing's technology activities, and 
a fast-evolving global threat environment make Team Telecom's work an 
essential part of identifying and mitigating national security risks in 
the coming years.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \80\ U.S. Federal Communications Commission. Noticed of Proposed 
Rulemaking. FCC-24-119. Washington, D.C.: Federal Communications 
Commission, November 2024. https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/FCC-
24-119A1.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steps Congress Can Take Now
    There are four steps Congress should consider taking now and into 
the next year.

  1.  Congress should consider encouraging Team Telecom to continue 
        efforts to increase transparency around the committee and its 
        activities. Team Telecom has been repeatedly criticized over 
        the years for a lack of transparency into its review 
        processes.\81\ As I detail in my forthcoming book, there are 
        plenty of reasons for U.S. national security regulations and 
        review programs such as Team Telecom to limit the information 
        shared about their activities, in ways industry sometimes does 
        not recognize--including due to classification issues and the 
        dynamic nature of the geopolitical and cyber threat 
        environment--but it is also important for these review 
        processes to not operate as ``black boxes'' with opaque 
        criteria that are overly difficult for U.S. companies to 
        navigate. Transparency is important in a democracy. It is 
        important for the U.S. government to be able to simultaneously 
        achieve the objectives of protecting national security and 
        minimizing unnecessary costs to industry. And it is also 
        important for the U.S. government to be able to communicate 
        publicly about risks (such as from Beijing) and earn the trust 
        of private-sector companies, civil society groups, and 
        international partners on these risk mitigations. Team Telecom 
        has made significant progress in increasing the transparency 
        around its processes in the last several years and since 
        President Trump's executive order, including Team Telecom 
        providing public justifications for some of its recent license 
        recommendations and the FCC adopting a set of publicly 
        accessible ``Standard Questions'' in August 2024 \82\ that 
        companies must submit in Section 214, submarine cable license, 
        and Section 310(b) filings.\83\ These are all important steps. 
        Congress should consider how it can continue to support the 
        committee's efforts at transparency, including by publicly 
        explaining and highlighting the national security risks facing 
        submarine cables, such as from the Chinese government.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \81\ See, e.g., U.S. Federal Communications Commission. Statement 
of Commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel Re: Process Reform for Executive 
Branch Review of Certain FCC Applications and Petitions Involving 
Foreign Ownership. Washington, D.C.: Federal Communications Commission, 
August 2024. https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/FCC-20-133A5.pdf.
    \82\ U.S. Federal Communications Commission. Executive Branch 
Review Rules/Standard Questions Effective August 23, 2024. Washington, 
D.C.: Federal Communications Commission, August 2024. https://
www.fcc.gov/document/executive-br-review-rulesstandard-questions-
effective-aug-23-2024.
    \83\ See the list of questions: U.S. Federal Communications 
Commission, ``Requirements for Applications and Petitions Subject to 
Executive Branch Review,'' FCC.gov, accessed December 4, 2024, https://
www.fcc.gov/international-affairs/requirements-applications-and-
petitions-subject-executive-branch-review.

  2.  Congress should consider statutorily authorizing Team Telecom to 
        ensure it has the appropriate authorities, on an ongoing and 
        codified basis, to mitigate national security risks to subsea 
        cables. The statutory authorization of CFIUS in 2007 \84\ was 
        recognized to be an important moment in cementing the 
        committee's role in screening certain foreign investments in 
        the United States for national security risks. In 2020, a 
        Senate report that reviewed Team Telecom's activities found 
        that the sharing of staff between CFIUS and Team Telecom was 
        counterproductive because some agencies would dual-assign their 
        staffers to both CFIUS and Team Telecom--and the former would 
        receive most of the attention.\85\ While they are different 
        review programs with different authorities, scopes, and volumes 
        of reviewed transactions and activities, the finding still 
        underscores how statutory authorization from a procedural 
        standpoint can ensure an organization like Team Telecom is 
        effectively staffed. It could ensure it has the authority and 
        Congressional mandate to engage more publicly, including with 
        industry, to the extent possible, on the risks. And it would 
        also be a way to address previously identified, critical 
        national security gaps: Congress could require Team Telecom to 
        periodically reassess foreign carriers, allow Team Telecom to 
        inspect foreign carriers with which it has no existing security 
        agreement, and include a specific requirement for Team Telecom 
        to proactively identify risks associated with changes in 
        ownership throughout the entities involved in the cable supply 
        chain. Congress should consider how statutory authorization of 
        Team Telecom--which could be coupled with an increase in 
        funding and personnel resources--is an appropriate measure to 
        achieve these objectives and continue enabling the committee to 
        confront national security threats, especially from the Chinese 
        and Russian governments.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \84\ This was with the Foreign Investment and National Security Act 
of 2007 (P.L. 110-49).
    \85\ U.S. Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Government 
Affairs: Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations. Threats to U.S. 
Networks: Oversight of Chinese Government-Owned Carriers. Washington, 
D.C.: Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs, 
June 2020. https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/imo/media/
doc/2020-06-09%20
PSI%20Staff520Report%20-
%20Threats%20to%20U.S.%20Communications%20Networks.pdf.

  3.  Congress should consider commissioning an open-source study on 
        Chinese government involvement in and risks to the global 
        submarine cable supply chain. There is significant open-source 
        information and data available on the global submarine cable 
        network that can be gathered, coded, and analyzed into a study 
        that is shareable with members of Congress and the public in an 
        open setting. Congress, such as via the Subcommittee, should 
        consider commissioning such a study to give a perspective 
        independent of the submarine cable industry and of the 
        Executive Branch on the global infrastructure and the national 
        security risks facing the infrastructure; to provide insights 
        of practical use to the Subcommittee and other Members on 
        Chinese government involvement in all aspects of the submarine 
        cable supply chain, including via investments and repairs; to 
        help get a better grasp on Subcommittee and relevant Member-
        specific questions that are not yet clearly answered; and to 
        better evaluate the national security risks facing subsea cable 
        infrastructure from a geopolitical threat and United States 
        policymaking vantage point. This open-source study could be 
        complemented with public briefings to raise awareness on the 
        issue as well as private briefings for more sensitive open-
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        source findings.

  4.  Congress should consider requesting a report from the Department 
        of Justice (Team Telecom chair) in conjunction with the 
        Department of Defense on ``lessons learned'' from Team Telecom 
        in its three decades-long history and since President Trump 
        formalized it into an interagency committee in 2020. Team 
        Telecom has faced significant challenges in its now-decades-
        long history, ranging from strategic problems (e.g., an 
        insufficient focus on Chinese government activity) to 
        operational roadblocks, due to the nature of Team Telecom's 
        setup (e.g., staff dual-assigned to Team Telecom and programs 
        like CFIUS, the latter of which often ended up receiving more 
        time and attention).\86\ Yet, Team Telecom has also, in many 
        ways, made significant progress in tackling these challenges in 
        recent years and since President Trump signed E.O. 13913 in 
        2020. It has seemingly spent more time focused on threats to 
        submarine cables from the Chinese government, issued more 
        public and plain-language justifications for its 
        recommendations to the FCC on submarine cables, and worked with 
        the FCC to develop new mechanisms to make the program more 
        transparent to industry (e.g., the new Standard Questions). The 
        Senate's bipartisan staff report in 2020 digging into Team 
        Telecom--and, at the time, particularly its failings--was a 
        useful exercise to provide Congress with more information about 
        the committee and to unearth problems and opportunities, but 
        policies and practices have changed. To inform effective 
        oversight, communication to the public about Team Telecom's 
        role and the national security risks to submarine cables, and 
        any future legislative action, Congress should formally request 
        that the Justice Department (as Team Telecom chair), in 
        conjunction with the Defense Department and in consultation 
        with the FCC, author and provide a publicly shareable, 
        unclassified report to Congress on major lessons learned in the 
        design, administration, and threat analysis of its program 
        since the Executive Order in 2020--and describing priority 
        areas and national security risks for the next decade.\87\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \86\ Ibid., 13.
    \87\ This report could, of course, be accompanied by a non-public 
annex and/or a classified annex provided solely to the appropriate 
Members.

    The security and resilience of this network are critical to 
worldwide information flows, commerce, scientific research, military 
communications, and U.S. national security. Private-sector companies 
have long played a pivotal role in building and operating this network, 
and U.S. firms' ability to do so is vital to economic security, 
national security, and the US' ability to differentiate its Internet 
model from that of Beijing. Simultaneously, foreign actors, 
particularly the Chinese and Russian governments, pose serious threats 
to the global submarine cable network and the security of U.S. data 
flows--making Federal government entities like ``Team Telecom'' 
essential to protecting our national security, countering Chinese 
efforts to surveil U.S. subsea cables, and ensuring there is a 
specialized national security voice in discussions about this global 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet infrastructure.

    Senator Lujan. Next, we will hear from Tim Donovan, 
President and CEO of the Competitive Carriers Association.

   STATEMENT OF TIM DONOVAN, PRESIDENT AND CEO, COMPETITIVE 
                      CARRIERS ASSOCIATION

    Mr. Donovan. Chairman Lujan, Senator Moran, Ranking Member 
Cruz, members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the 
opportunity to testify about the importance of providing safe 
and secure connectivity for all Americans.
    CCA represents communications providers ranging from small 
and rural, to regional and nationwide, as well as vendors and 
suppliers. Our members are often the only provider for portions 
of their service area, delivering lifesaving connectivity 
across rural America for their subscribers, as well as millions 
of Americans that roam onto their networks.
    This hearing is timely as new details of compromised 
networks fill headlines daily. While work continues to analyze 
and secure networks, it is important to look at broader threat 
landscape and for Congress and Federal Government to take steps 
to promote safe and secure networks.
    This includes fully funding the $3.8 billion shortfall 
needed to complete the Rip and Replace program, promoting work 
between communications providers and Federal partners with 
clear and unambiguous cybersecurity guidance, and beginning 
work now to take steps in the 119th Congress to preserve and 
expand connectivity with a focus on security.
    CCA thanks this committee for passing the legislation that 
created the reimbursement program. The program should have been 
completed this past July under the initial timeline, but 
significant amounts of covered equipment and services remain in 
place today because of insufficient funding.
    The situation is dire. Rural providers are being forced to 
decide where to remove equipment but not replace it. Cutting 
off service, including for 911. These decommissioning decisions 
are permanent choices that are detrimental to service 
availability and even entire businesses.
    These decisions are agonizing for our members because they 
live in the communities they serve, and impacts go beyond their 
customers. For example, five program participants that 
collectively serve fewer than 200,000 subscribers connected 
over 60 million Americans last year who roamed on to their 
networks because no other service was available. This equipment 
remains in service right now, including near military bases, 
airports, and other areas of strategic importance.
    Further, because the equipment cannot be properly 
maintained or upgraded, every day that passes increases the 
risk of catastrophic network failures. Because it is illegal to 
procure new equipment and services from untrusted vendors, 
carriers with this equipment cannot properly patch and upgrade 
software to defend against emerging threats or even perform 
basic maintenance.
    They cannot work with the manufacturers to identify 
problems or resolve issues. The Salt Typhoon can hack major 
operators, and there is a flashing red light for rip and 
replace networks that do not have the same resources. The 
national security risk also goes beyond the reimbursement 
program participants.
    Because of the fundamentally interconnected nature of 
networks, a threat to one network is a threat to all. This is 
not a partisan issue, and it impacts Americans in red and blue 
states alike. Funding has bipartisan support in Congress and at 
the FCC.
    I am encouraged by and deeply appreciative of recent 
legislative developments toward meeting this critical moment 
and providing the desperately needed funding in the pending 
NDAA. I want to thank new Senators, representatives, and staff, 
especially on this committee, for the steadfast work to arrive 
at this point.
    CCA urges Congress to swiftly pass this important 
legislation and send it to the President for enactment. Beyond 
Rip and Replace, there are other ways Congress can bolster 
national security and remove barriers and uncertainty.
    Our carriers truly need Federal partners in the fight with 
us, and they need access to information and resources required 
to stay ahead of the seemingly never-ending game of security 
whack-a-mole. Information sharing should facilitate 
collaboration not only between Federal partners and carriers, 
but also among carriers.
    Policymakers must also take steps to ensure security 
requirements are clear and consistent across the Federal 
Government. Today, there are many different standards and 
requirements that carriers must consider with new layers 
constantly being added. We need centralized authority and 
guidance. Small carriers face specific challenges.
    Beyond having smaller teams with a potential lack of 
security clearances, many smaller carriers rely on their vendor 
partners for aspects of security hygiene, monitoring, and 
response. These carriers do not have the buying power to demand 
specific security procedures and rely on broader economies of 
scale and industry investment to support these efforts.
    Finally, Federal policymakers should continue to encourage 
and invest in new solutions, including research, development, 
and growth of Open RAN technologies and continued support for 
trusted vendors.
    There are other key policy issues Congress should prepare 
for consideration in the upcoming Congress that are necessary 
to preserve and expand connectivity, each with aspects impacted 
by security issues, including defending and reforming the 
Universal Service Fund, supporting permitting reform, and 
restoring FCC auction authority.
    CCA is committed to working with all stakeholders to 
accomplish the challenging task of securing U.S. networks while 
maintaining communications services for millions in rural 
America. Thank you for the opportunity to testify, and I 
welcome any questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Donovan follows:]

         Prepared Statement of Tim Donovan, President and CEO, 
                    Competitive Carriers Association
    Chairman Lujan, Ranking Member Thune, and Members of the 
Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify about the 
importance of providing safe and secure connectivity for all Americans.
    Competitive Carriers Association (CCA) represents communications 
providers ranging from small, rural providers, serving fewer than 5,000 
customers, to regional and nationwide providers serving millions, as 
well as vendors and suppliers throughout the communications ecosystem. 
Our members are often the only provider for hundreds or even thousands 
of square miles of their service areas, providing life-saving 
connectivity across large swaths of rural America--including in your 
home states of New Mexico and South Dakota--for their subscribers, as 
well as millions of Americans who roam onto their networks.
    CCA and its members thank this Committee for its continued focus on 
security and expanding connectivity to all Americans. This hearing is 
timely as new details of compromised networks fill headlines daily. 
While work must continue to analyze and to secure networks related to 
the Salt Typhoon breach, it is important to look at the broader threat 
landscape and for Congress and the Federal government to take steps to 
promote safe and secure networks. This includes fully funding the $3.08 
billion shortfall needed to complete the Secure and Trusted 
Communications Networks Reimbursement Program (STCNRP or Reimbursement 
Program)--often referred to as Rip & Replace--at the Federal 
Communications Commission (FCC), promoting work between communications 
providers and Federal partners with clear and unambiguous guidance, and 
beginning work now to take steps in the 119th Congress to preserve and 
expand connectivity with a focus on security.
       I. CONGRESS MUST FULLY FUND THE ``RIP & REPLACE'' PROGRAM.
    CCA thanks this Committee for passing the Secure and Trusted 
Communications Networks Act (STCNA), which, among other provisions, 
created the STCNRP. This important program is part of a yearslong 
effort to address concerns related to communications equipment and 
services deemed by Federal agencies, including the FCC, to pose a 
``national security threat to the integrity of communications networks 
or the communications supply chain,'' including the following benchmark 
steps:

   August 13, 2018: 2019 NDAA Section 889 enacted, limiting use 
        of Federal funds for untrusted telecommunications equipment.

   March 12, 2020: The Secure and Trusted Communications 
        Networks Act of 2019 is signed into law after passing Congress 
        with broad bipartisan support.

   December 27, 2020: Congress appropriates $1.9 billion to the 
        FCC for the Secure and Trusted Communications Networks 
        Reimbursement Program in the FY2021 Consolidated Appropriations 
        Act with a priority for companies with under 2 million 
        subscribers.

   October 29, 2021: FCC opens the filing window for applicants 
        seeking support from the Reimbursement Program.

   February 4, 2022: FCC notifies Congress that they have 
        received 181 original applications from 96 applicants 
        requesting $5.6 billion and that current appropriations would 
        not be sufficient to fully fund all approved applications.

     STCNA requires the FCC to approve or deny applications 
            within 90 days of submission but allows the FCC to extend 
            that deadline by up to 45 days if additional time is needed 
            to review. Exercising that option, the FCC extended the 
            review deadline to June 15, 2022.

   June 1, 2022: FCC Chairwoman Rosenworcel informs Congress 
        the FCC determined the gross cost estimate demand for the 
        program was reduced to $5.3 billion and anticipated further 
        reduction, but that appropriated funds will remain less than 
        the demand from applicants. She notes three contributing 
        factors:

     The expansion of entities eligible for participation 
            in the Program by the FY2021 Consolidated Appropriations 
            Act;

     Preliminary cost estimates of the Program did not 
            consider the full range of costs that were ultimately 
            reimbursable under law;

     Providers reported increased costs since the program 
            was funded due to supply chain issues, inflation, and 
            project completion requirements by law.

   June 15, 2022: FCC Chairwoman Rosenworcel updates Congress 
        on the FCC's progress reviewing ``materially deficient'' 
        applications and allowing applicants to cure their submissions. 
        She also announces that absent additional appropriations, the 
        FCC will apply the prioritization scheme specified by Congress 
        for allocation funding on a pro-rata basis.

   July 15, 2022: FCC Chairwoman Rosenworcel informs Congress 
        that the FCC has completed its review of applications to the 
        Reimbursement Program, and announces in a Public Notice the 
        granted applications for reimbursement, the approved cost 
        estimates, and the approved prorated allocations.

     FCC Chairwoman Rosenworcel notes a shortfall of $3.08 
            billion to fully fund approved cost estimates.

     Chairwoman Rosenworcel announces the Commission will 
            prorate reimbursement funds equally to each eligible 
            applicant that have 2 million customers or less. The pro-
            rata factor is approximately 39.5 percent.

   July 17, 2023: Applicants approved for funding support are 
        required to have submitted at least one reimbursement claim, 
        and are required to complete the permanent removal, replacement 
        and disposal of Huawei/ZTE communications equipment and 
        services from their networks within a year of initial 
        distribution of reimbursement funds.

    Since 2023, the FCC has continued to update Congress on the status 
of the program, yet it cannot be completed without sufficient funding. 
As Chairwoman Rosenworcel noted in her most recent update to Congress, 
``[t]he consequences of the continued lack of full funding for the 
Reimbursement Program are significant for our national security and 
rural communities.''\1\ To be clear, while the program should have been 
completed this past July under Congress's initial timeline from the 
STCNA, significant amounts of covered equipment and services remain in 
place today because of insufficient funding. The FCC has had to use 
authority provided by Congress to grant 139 extensions of time, 
including 118 ``based in whole or in part on the funding shortfall.'' 
While necessary, these extensions mean that the process is prolonged 
with increasingly disruptive impacts on the participating carriers and 
customers they serve.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Letter from Jessica Rosenworcel, Chair, Fed. Commc'ns Comm'n, 
to Hon. Steny H. Hoyer, Ranking Member, H. Comm. on Approps., Subcomm. 
on Fin. Servs. And Gen. Gov't (Nov. 26, 2024), https://docs.fcc.gov/
public/attachments/DOC-407870A1.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
A. Without full funding, many of your states will lose coverage; 
        including for 9-1-1 and emergency services.
    The situation is dire: rural telecommunications providers, 
especially in Western states, are being forced to decide where to 
remove equipment but not replace it, eliminating service both to their 
own subscribers as well as the tens of millions of Americans who roam 
onto their networks for connectivity, including for 9-1-1 and emergency 
services. For example, though five Reimbursement Program participants 
collectively serve under 200,000 subscribers, they connected over 60 
million Americans last year who roamed onto their networks because no 
other service was available. These decommissioning decisions are 
permanent choices that are detrimental to service availability and even 
the feasibility of entire businesses. These decisions are agonizing for 
our Rip & Replace members because they live in the communities they 
serve. They know that if their network cannot carry a 9-1-1 call, it 
could be their neighbor, or someone from their own families, who is 
unable to access lifesaving services. Eliminating service in an area 
does not only affect that carriers' customers, but anyone who would 
roam onto their network, as they are often the only wireless provider 
serving much of their market. Millions of Americans, particularly in 
rural areas and on Tribal Lands, could lose basic connectivity.
    Without Congressional action, the lack of STCNRP funding is forcing 
rural carriers to go out of business. This is not hypothetical. Without 
more funding, in the coming months, you will see companies go out of 
business--disconnecting service and eliminating jobs in your home 
states. To further underscore the impacts across large swaths of the 
country, the following are examples of impacts from CCA members 
participating in the STCNRP:

   A Reimbursement Program participant will be forced to reduce 
        its coverage area by over 67 percent (over 31,000 square miles) 
        in Arizona and nearly 64 percent (over 26,000 square miles) in 
        Nevada.

   That same carrier would have a nearly 90 percent reduction 
        in service in Utah, and the impacted areas include key military 
        and national security installations.

   A Reimbursement Program participant in New Mexico will lose 
        70.2 percent of its current coverage area (over 19,000 square 
        miles) leaving customers unserved.

   A Reimbursement Program participant in Colorado will be 
        forced to reduce its coverage area by 73.8 percent (13,766 
        square miles).

   A Reimbursement Program participant in Wyoming will be 
        forced to reduce its coverage by over 80 percent (nearly 4,000 
        square miles).

   A Reimbursement Program participant in Montana will be 
        forced to reduce its service by over 62 percent (over 1,500 
        square miles).

   A Reimbursement Program participant that serves the Navajo 
        Nation will likely reduce coverage in that area by 20-40 
        percent.

   A Reimbursement Program participant covering 122,000 square 
        miles in the Rocky Mountains is deciding what portions of its 
        network to decommission because of the funding failure. Its 
        coverage area will need to be reduced by over 70,000 square 
        miles, eliminating the only coverage roamers have available. 
        This coverage area includes 40 military installations, 32 of 
        which are in areas that will not retain service without full 
        funding, including a strategic missile base. Further, only 91 
        healthcare facilities out of 456 will remain covered, and only 
        415 schools or other educational facilities out of 1,897 will 
        be able to retain coverage. Over half of this provider's 
        approximately 40,000 subscribers will be affected, as well as 
        the 13-14 million roamers that use the network each year.

   A Reimbursement Program participant in Western states that 
        connects approximately 20 million annual roaming customers, in 
        addition to its own customers, would see service degraded or 
        lost.

   A Reimbursement Program participant serving a large rural 
        area in the Upper Plains cannot transition to 5G because it 
        does not have full funding to remove untrusted equipment. The 
        network, and the communities it serves, will degrade over time 
        and the area will go from served to unserved.

   A Reimbursement Program participant in the South faces 
        financial obligations beyond its prorated funding and faces 
        dire implications in the absence of full funding even if they 
        do not rip and replace.
B. Without full funding, untrusted equipment remains in place, 
        including in locations near military bases and other areas of 
        strategic importance.
    This funding shortfall not only threatens the success of the 
Reimbursement Program and connectivity in rural America, but it also 
seriously compromises national security. As stated above, untrusted 
equipment remains in service right now, including some near military 
bases, airports, and other areas of strategic importance. Further, 
because this equipment cannot be properly maintained or upgraded, every 
day that passes increases the risk of catastrophic network failures. 
Because it is illegal to procure new equipment and services from 
untrusted vendors, carriers with this equipment cannot properly patch 
and upgrade software to defend against emerging threats or even perform 
basic maintenance. They cannot work with the equipment manufacturers to 
identify problems or resolve issues. If Salt Typhoon can hack major 
operator networks, then there is a flashing red light for Rip & Replace 
networks that do not have those resources.
    The national security risk also goes beyond the Reimbursement 
Program participants. Because of the fundamentally interconnected 
nature of networks, a threat to one network is a threat to all. This 
impacts not only network interconnections, peering, and traffic 
exchange between networks, but also consumer access. For example, a 
customer who roams onto a network with covered equipment or services, 
because no other connectivity is available, could have their device 
compromised. It has been over six years since Section 889 was enacted, 
and the status quo is critically unsustainable.
    The inability of Reimbursement Program participants to complete 
their projects in our own backyards also undermines America's strength 
and leadership internationally. The United States has led the world in 
raising concerns regarding use of insecure communications equipment and 
services and has strongly urged Allies and other nations to remove 
covered equipment currently in use and prohibit future deployments. We 
must complete this process at home to maintain connectivity in many 
rural areas while addressing a national security mandate and 
demonstrating global leadership.
C. There are no other options for Rip & Replace carriers. Congress must 
        provide $3.08 billion.
    While FCC extensions of time have been necessary, there is little 
else the agency can do to support the STCNRP without additional 
funding. Additional time alone cannot provide the resources for work to 
continue. Indeed, 72 percent of the status updates filed on October 7, 
2024 indicated that the lack of full funding continues to be an 
obstacle to completing the permanent removal, replacement, and disposal 
of the covered communications equipment and services in recipients' 
networks.\2\ Fifty percent of the participants reported that they 
cannot complete the work required because of the funding shortfall.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ Letter from Jessica Rosenworcel, Chair, Fed. Commc'ns Comm'n, 
to Hon. Steny H. Hoyer, Ranking Member, H. Comm. on Approps., Subcomm. 
on Fin. Servs. And Gen. Gov't (Nov. 26, 2024), https://docs.fcc.gov/
public/attachments/DOC-407870A1.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This is not a partisan issue. It impacts Americans in red and blue 
states alike. Funding has bipartisan support in Congress and at the 
FCC. In addition to Chairwoman Rosenworcel's calls for necessary 
funding, Commissioner Carr has strongly called for Congress to close 
the funding gap, including in testimony earlier this year noting that:
    As a government, we have taken the smart step of ordering the 
removal of this insecure and high-risk Equipment--gear that 
proliferated in rural networks near some of our military's most 
sensitive facilities--and we have said that we would compensate covered 
providers for the costs of removing and replacing that gear. We need to 
make good on that promise.\3\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ Budget Hearing--Fiscal Year 2025 Request for the Federal 
Communications Commission Before the H. Comm. on Approps. Subcomm. on 
Fin. Servs. And Gen. Gov't (May 16, 2024) (testimony of Brendan Carr, 
Comm'ner, Fed. Commc'ns Comm'n).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
D. Congress has an immediate opportunity to address this issue in the 
        FY2025 NDAA.
    I am encouraged by, and deeply appreciative of, recent legislative 
developments towards meeting this critical moment and providing the 
desperately needed funding. The Senate Amendment to H.R. 5009--WILD Act 
[Servicemember Quality of Life Improvement and National Defense 
Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2025] (NDAA) includes provisions to 
increase the STCNRP authorization to the level needed to complete the 
program and allow the FCC to immediately access the funding necessary. 
I thank the Senators, Representatives, and staff--including members, 
leadership, and staff on this Committee--for their steadfast work to 
arrive at this point. CCA supports this effort and urges Congress to 
swiftly pass this important legislation and send it to the President 
for enactment.
II. FEDERAL POLICYMAKERS SHOULD TAKE STEPS TO SUPPORT INDUSTRY SECURITY 
                                EFFORTS.
    Congress should support efforts to increase collaboration between 
Federal agencies and carriers to bolster network security and to remove 
barriers and uncertainty. This includes updates to information sharing, 
clear and consistent security requirements, and a recognition of the 
unique challenges faced by smaller carriers, including limited 
resources.
    All carriers must have clear and unambiguous guidance and 
information from the Federal government on network security. Obtaining 
this information can be particularly challenging for smaller and rural 
carriers, with limited resources and staff, that are unlikely to have 
in-house personnel, let alone teams of professionals, with appropriate 
and often necessary security clearances sitting alongside Federal 
partners on a day-to-day basis. Without better channels for information 
sharing, there can be times that, even when Federal partners want to 
help, assistance is minimal because the lack of clearances prohibits 
sharing anything other than unclassified/public information. For 
example, in the ongoing efforts surrounding Salt Typhoon, without 
sharing of intelligence, many carriers have late or limited indicators 
of compromise to go hunting for or understanding of how hackers got in, 
hampering the ability to respond and further secure their networks.
    While lists of trusted or untrusted vendors for equipment and 
services are helpful, efforts must go further. These lists have 
primarily focused on network equipment and vendors, yet carriers may 
not have visibility deeper into supply chains to avoid chipsets, 
modules, or other devices that could create vulnerabilities. 
Information sharing efforts targeting small and rural carriers like the 
Communications Supply Chain Risk Information Partnership (C-SCRIP) at 
the National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) 
are helpful and should be expanded, including with appropriate 
resources to assist all carriers. Most small and rural carriers do not 
have the resources to participate in ongoing public/private initiatives 
on security such as the Department of Homeland Security's Cybersecurity 
& Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) Communications Sector 
Coordinating Council. Our carriers truly need Federal partners in the 
fight with us, and they need access to the information and resources 
required for staying ahead of the seemingly never-ending game of 
security whack-a-mole.
    Information sharing should facilitate collaboration not only 
between Federal partners and carriers, but also among carriers. This 
can create difficulties because our members report that they do not 
know which other carriers have had cybersecurity issues in part 
because, as one said:

        We aren't allowed to talk to others, even if we know something, 
        we probably can't share it. This hinders communications and 
        makes things really complicated. We don't know who we can talk 
        to, or what we can talk about with carriers. Somehow, we all 
        need to be brought up to the same level, all brought under the 
        same tent, and be allowed to have open and honest discussions 
        with the other carriers. We need to learn from each other. 
        Right now, we can't do that. By doing things the way the 
        government has, in some ways they have made things worse.

    In addition to real-time information sharing, policymakers must 
take steps to ensure security requirements are clear and consistent 
across the Federal government. Today, there are many different 
standards and requirements that carriers must consider, with new layers 
constantly being added. These range from industry standards, for 
example, those from 3GPP and other international standards 
organizations, as well as various requirements or recommendations from 
the FCC, CISA, and the Department of Commerce's National Institute of 
Standards and Technology (NIST). Even if well-intended, the lack of 
coordination is a significant challenge to the implementation of 
successful cybersecurity plans. There can be major differences between 
requirements from CISA and what is required by an agency as part of 
specific programs administered by the FCC, NTIA, or the Treasury or 
Agriculture Departments. At least in terms of the Federal government, 
minimizing the agencies involved and synchronizing security-related 
requirements would foster clarity and consistency and also reduce the 
associated regulatory burdens so providers with limited resources can 
use those resource to actually improve their network security.
    As breaches occur, it is important to balance alerting consumers 
and national security authorities with understanding and resolving 
threats, especially for carriers with limited staff and resources. Our 
members report significant problems with overly burdensome data breach 
reporting requirements. For example, the FCC's Data Breach Order 
undermines Congress's connectivity goals by unnecessarily and 
unlawfully imposing significant compliance costs on smaller carriers, 
most of which are small businesses that lack dedicated privacy teams 
and in-house attorneys to navigate the requirements that the FCC has 
stacked atop existing state and Federal data breach notification laws. 
In addition, the FCC proposed requiring broadband providers to develop 
and implement detailed risk management plans for Border Gateway 
Protocol (BGP) security. These requirements should account for the 
cumulative regulatory burdens on carriers. The same team or individual 
may be struggle with these requirements as well as other cybersecurity 
proposals related to Wireless Emergency Alerts (WEA), the 5G Fund, and 
CISA's upcoming Cyber Incident Reporting for Critical Infrastructures 
Act (CIRCIA) reporting framework because of lack of human and financial 
resources to keep up.
    It would be helpful to have one set of centralized authority and 
directive on cyber hygiene. For example, CCA encouraged the FCC to 
coordinate with CISA and industry-driven efforts instead of 
independently regulating. CCA also encouraged CISA to synchronize its 
CIRCIA reporting with the FCC's reporting requirements as encouraged by 
Congress. Congress should ensure needed flexibility with government 
standards with capacity building for carriers, especially smaller ones. 
Using existing programs can also reduce costs and encourage broader 
participation.
    Federal policymakers should also be aware of specific challenges 
faced by smaller carriers. Beyond having smaller teams with a potential 
lack of security clearances, many smaller carriers rely on their vendor 
partners for aspects of security hygiene, monitoring, and response. 
Smaller carriers do not have the buying power or scale to demand 
specific security procedures. They rely on broader economies of scale 
and industry investment to support these efforts instead of costly 
bespoke equipment and services.
    Finally, Federal policymakers should continue to encourage and 
invest in new solutions, including research, development, and growth of 
Open RAN technologies and continued support for trusted vendors. This 
investment will not only support network security domestically but will 
also have international impacts that advance American leadership. 
Today, a large portion of the world's communications networks rely on 
equipment from untrusted vendors, raising significant security 
concerns. CCA believes that continued growth of Open RAN can provide an 
important alternative by enabling a multi-vendor ecosystem that 
decreases the dependence on untrusted vendors while promoting 
competition and innovation. However, policymakers should not mandate 
technologies--if new technologies deliver on their promise, they will 
compete and succeed in the marketplace. CCA also supports continued 
partnerships like that between CCA member Cape and the U.S. Government 
to support strategic communications services to address concerns around 
security vulnerabilities.
    III. IMPORTANT CONSIDERATIONS FOR THE 119TH CONGRESS.
    There are several key policy issues Congress should prepare for 
consideration in the upcoming 119th Congress that are necessary to 
preserve and expand connectivity, each with aspects impacted by 
security issues.
A. Universal Service Fund (USF) Reform and Litigation.
    I commend you; your staffs; those of Sens. Klobuchar, Peters, 
Moran, and Capito; and their House Energy & Commerce Committee 
counterparts for your diligent efforts to create a bipartisan working 
group for reforming the USF. All CCA members have an interest in 
ensuring that all Americans have access to the latest broadband 
services, especially those in rural and high-cost areas. CCA 
appreciates Congress's support for bipartisan policies that foster 
sufficient and predictable USF support and that advance the universal 
service goals of Section 254 of the Communications Act, as amended.
    The job of universal service is not complete--there are still areas 
where coverage will continue to need to be filled in and deployed to 
meet the overall objectives of ubiquitous voice and broadband services. 
Even where deployments have occurred, ongoing support for operating 
expenses--including maintaining an appropriate security posture--demand 
support from USF to continue to provide service. Most rural carriers 
operate on extraordinarily thin margins, so threats to USF hurt their 
ability to upgrade their cybersecurity infrastructure. Failure to 
update and direct USF programs to preserve and to expand ubiquitous 
connectivity will lead to continued consolidation of smaller carriers 
and carriers serving rural America, reducing coverage in areas 
uneconomical to serve absent support.
    Especially considering the subject of today's hearing, Congress 
should ensure that resources are available to promote secure networks, 
especially for smaller carriers serving rural areas. USF reform could 
be an opportunity to promote cybersecurity best practices. In addition 
to considering USF eligibility for more carriers and areas, funding for 
cybersecurity compliance could be part of an operational expenditure 
fund or part of an existing fund.
    Further, recognizing the importance of security, the FCC should 
consider alternatives to awarding USF support through reverse auctions. 
These create a race-to-the-bottom where cuts to security may be 
necessary to access support. Indeed, a previous reverse auction for the 
Mobility Fund Phase I drove the deployment of significant amounts of 
equipment now subject to the STCNRP, because those vendors made their 
equipment and services available at the lowest cost.
    The USF is also under threat in the courts. The Supreme Court 
granted certiorari in a case that could destroy the USF. The litigation 
questions the fundamental delegation of authority for the USF from 
Congress to the FCC, and from the FCC to the Universal Service 
Administrative Company (USAC). The FCC and CCA, among others, are 
fighting to protect the USF from these attacks. We appreciate the 
leadership from several Members of Congress, including on this 
Committee, in previously supporting USF in court against litigation 
threats by submitting an amicus brief, on bicameral, bipartisan basis, 
supporting the FCC's defense of the USF in the Fifth Circuit. If the 
USF is undermined by this litigation, it could have disastrous impacts 
on broadband deployment in the United States. Although CCA maintains 
that Section 254 provides more than enough authority for the FCC to 
administer the USF, Congress could provide additional clarity to 
protect the USF from future, spurious litigation attempts and should be 
prepared to act quickly if a court decision undermines the USF.
B. Permitting Reform.
    The ability to site, build, and upgrade network equipment is also 
important for reinforcing network security. CCA members often face 
unique environmental and geographic challenges that complicate 
infrastructure work, and increased costs associated with permitting can 
take up resources that could otherwise be dedicated to enhancing 
security. Siting reform is critical to overcome major potential 
barriers to broadband deployment. In the next Congress, CCA encourages 
common-sense historic and environmental preservation reforms, improved 
siting standards, and greater CCA member access to Federal lands. CCA 
also strongly believes that meaningful broadband infrastructure reform 
need not pit carriers against Federal agencies, states and 
municipalities. Congress should consider programs and legislation that 
incentivize state and local governments to facilitate deployment, 
including through appropriately staffing review offices.
C. Spectrum Auction Reauthorization.
    Access to additional spectrum allows carriers to continue to 
improve coverage, capacity, and upgrade to the latest--and often most 
secure--equipment and technologies. I echo calls from many on this 
Committee to reinstate the FCC's general spectrum auction authority. 
Congress should also facilitate, improve, and maximize public/private 
collaboration and interagency cooperation in Federal spectrum 
management and continue to support providing carriers of all sizes with 
meaningful opportunities to bid on and win spectrum at auction.
                               * * * * *
    Strengthening our communications networks to ensure that all 
consumers have access to the latest fixed and mobile broadband services 
is critical to our national security, disaster preparedness and 
response, and economic growth. To that end, Congress must immediately 
fill the $3.08 billion funding gap for the Rip & Replace Program. CCA 
is committed to working with all stakeholders to accomplish the 
challenging task of securing U.S. networks while maintaining 
communications services for millions of consumers in rural America. 
Thank you for the opportunity to testify at this important hearing, and 
I welcome any questions.

    Senator Lujan. Thank you. Senator Moran, you are recognized 
for our next introduction.
    Senator Moran. Mr. Chairman, I would like to welcome and 
thank Dr. James Mulvenon for joining us today at this hearing. 
Mister--Dr. Mulvenon is an international expert on Chinese 
cyber warfare, on espionage, and military issues.
    A Chinese linguist by training, he holds a B.A. from the 
Chinese Studies from the University of Michigan and a Ph.D. in 
political science from UCLA. I appreciate his willingness to 
share his insights and expertise with the Committee. Thank you.
    Senator Lujan. Dr. Mulvenon, you are recognized, sir.

STATEMENT OF JAMES MULVENON, Ph.D., CHIEF INTELLIGENCE OFFICER, 
                        PAMIR CONSULTING

    Mr. Mulvenon. Subcommittee Chairman Lujan, Ranking Member 
Moran, and Ranking Member Cruz, thank you for inviting me here 
today. As Senator Moran said in his introduction, I am a 
Chinese linguist.
    I always start with that because it was so damn hard, and 
it took so long, and it destroyed my eyesight. But I have spent 
the last 30 years here in D.C. building teams of cleared 
linguists analysts supporting the Department of Defense, and 
the Intelligence Community, and Federal law enforcement.
    And the through line through all of that has been a focus 
on Chinese cyber and technology issues, which we have been 
looking at since the mid 1990s. Having looked at all of those 
attacks over the years, I will say that the Salt Typhoon 
intrusions are the most serious intrusion against a U.S. 
telecommunications networks that I have seen in my career and 
raises a number of troubling strategic and operational and 
legal issues that I think fall under the purview of this 
committee to consider.
    I would like to make three quick points. The first is the 
United States clearly is still in a very deep cyber deterrence 
hole with respect to China, and the whole appears to only be 
getting deeper.
    It is clear from recent events that China, and frankly for 
that measure Moscow and Tehran, don't feel like they have found 
America's pain point yet when it comes to cyber, in terms of an 
expected imposed cost or expected actions on the part of the 
U.S. Government. According to people in this field, deterrence 
basically comes in two forms, deterrence through denial and 
deterrence through punishment.
    The problem with cyber warfare and with networks is 
deterrence through denial is almost impossible because of the 
nature of the network itself. The offense only has to find one 
way to get in. The defender has to find every way to keep them 
out.
    That really only leaves deterrence through punishment, 
which is through response. Whether in the cyber realm or in 
other elements of U.S. national power, responding to the 
intrusion or the attack in a way that changes the attacker's 
calculus about doing it again.
    I will say in the first Trump Administration, the 
promulgation of NSPN 13 went a long way to lowering the 
thresholds for authorization of offensive action and also a 
bias toward action. And I expect that in the incoming 
Administration, we are likely to see a similar new bias toward 
offense as a way of pushing back.
    The second concern has to do with the operational 
implications for Federal wiretapping and collection by Salt 
Typhoon. According to public reports, the Chinese gained access 
to the systems used by the carriers to comply with CALEA and 
with FISA Section 702 for wiretapping.
    And as the Committee is familiar, Section 105 of CALEA 
maintains that the carriers have to and maintain the security 
and integrity of those collection requests, which have clearly 
been violated in this case. It is important historically to 
note that this is not the first time that we have had this 
concern about China.
    In fact, in 2009, the so-called Google Aurora Campaign by 
Chinese hackers also breached a number of these wiretapping 
compliance databases. So while this isn't the first time that 
this has happened, it is certainly a pattern.
    And they certainly, again, from a deterrence failure 
perspective, don't see any prohibition against doing this 
because of the lack of reaction the first time. Public reports 
also suggested the Chinese intruders used a vulnerability in 
the existing infrastructure hardware that cannot be remediated 
and would require a generational upgrade of equipment, costing 
billions of dollars.
    I think that CALEA, as well as these infrastructure upgrade 
concerns, should be a primary focus of the Committee's 
oversight and regulatory activity. And I would only point out 
that the FCC's recent announcement of their draft declaratory 
ruling that would require communications service providers to 
submit an annual certification to the FCC attesting that they 
have created, updated, and implemented a cybersecurity risk 
management plan does not seem to me to be proactive enough 
given the seriousness of the intrusion.
    And then finally, I would go against my Irish heritage and 
try and find something optimistic to talk about within this 
context, which is that the Rip and Replace of the vulnerable 
hardware exposed by Salt Typhoon could in fact be a huge boon 
for U.S. telecommunications equipment manufacturers that 
frankly have struggled over the last decade because of Huawei 
and ZTE, and that this massive overhaul would, in fact be 
exactly the kind of reshoring and kind of U.S. industrial 
planning and modernization that frankly we have been trying to 
achieve over the last five or six years in our rebalanced 
relationship with the Chinese economy. Thank you. I look 
forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Mulvenon follows:]

    Prepared Statement of James Mulvenon, Ph.D., Chief Intelligence 
                       Officer, Pamir Consulting
Introduction and Main Points
    Chairman Cantwell, Ranking Member Cruz, and distinguished members, 
thank you for inviting me to testify today.
    I have been researching Chinese cyber operations since the mid 
1990s. The SALT TYPHOON cyber campaign by PRC state actors is the most 
serious telecommunications compromise I have seen in my career, raising 
a range of strategic and operational issues that fall under the 
jurisdiction of this Committee.
    The Strategic Cyber Deterrence ``Hole'' is Getting Deeper

   The United States is currently in a deep deterrence ``hole'' 
        with respect to China.

   Neither Beijing (nor Moscow or Tehran for that matter) 
        believe that they have found America's ``pain point'' regarding 
        cyber intrusions or attacks, further emboldening them to 
        conduct deeper and more dangerous penetrations.

   Much as we would like, we can't simply declare today that we 
        have a credible cyber deterrent; it must be recognized by 
        others as credible.

   Deterrence comes in at least two distinct forms, deterrence 
        by punishment and deterrence by denial.

   Cyber deterrence through denial is primarily based on 
        computer network defense, but it is cost-prohibitive, as cyber 
        offense, which only needs to find one way in, is demonstrably 
        cheaper than cyber defense, which must prevent every avenue of 
        entry. Given the nature of the network, deterrence through 
        denial therefore seems to be extremely difficult.

   Deterrence through punishment, by contrast, is primarily an 
        offensive game, based on the threat of credible and painful 
        retaliation for adversary attacks; in other words, imposing 
        costs. In the cyber realm, deterrence by punishment 
        theoretically offers better chances of success, especially 
        against adversaries that have well-developed cyber 
        infrastructure.

   Some progress was made in the first Trump Administration, 
        particularly its promulgation of NSPM-13 ``United States Cyber 
        Operations Policy,'' which clearly articulated a ``bias for 
        action'' and for the first time lowered the threshold for 
        authorization of offensive cyber operations by delegating 
        ``well-defined authorities to the Secretary of Defense to 
        conduct time-sensitive military operations in cyberspace.''

   The current dynamic with China in cyberspace will not change 
        unless a similar, and hopefully even more forward-leaning 
        policy like NSPM-13 is enacted in the new administration.

    The Operational Concerns about Federal Wiretapping and Collection 
are Gravely Serious

   According to public reports, the Chinese intruders gained 
        access to the systems used by the carriers to comply with 
        wiretapping and FISA Section 702 requirements, potentially 
        exposing the targets of U.S. law enforcement and intelligence 
        collection and undermining related counterintelligence 
        operations.

   This is not the first time Chinese intruders have penetrated 
        these types of systems. Public reports asserted that China's 
        Operation Aurora campaign in 2009 against Google also breached 
        their FISA Section 702 systems.

   Public reports suggest that the Chinese intruders used a 
        vulnerability in the existing infrastructure hardware that 
        cannot be remediated and would require a generational upgrade 
        of equipment costing billions of dollars.

   The CALEA (Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement 
        Act) law, especially Section 105 ``Systems Security and 
        Integrity,'' provides ample basis for the Committee to mandate 
        the carriers provide a detailed remediation plan for the 
        vulnerability.

   The recent FCC announcement citing Section 105 as the basis 
        for a Declaratory Ruling that ``would require communications 
        service providers to submit an annual certification to the FCC 
        attesting that they have created, updated, and implemented a 
        cybersecurity risk management plan'' is not nearly proactive 
        enough.

    The ``Rip and Replace'' of the Vulnerable Hardware Could Be a Huge 
Boon for Domestic Telecommunications Equipment Manufacturing

   American telecommunications equipment manufacturers like 
        Cisco and Juniper have struggled for decades to meet the 
        challenge from unfairly subsidized competitors like Huawei and 
        ZTE.

   A massive overhaul of the U.S. core infrastructure, 
        restricted to trusted Western equipment manufacturers, would be 
        a huge boost to domestic manufacturing.

    Senator Lujan. Appreciate that very much. Ranking Member 
Cruz--Senator Cruz will be recognized for his opening 
statement.

                  STATEMENT OF HON. TED CRUZ, 
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM TEXAS

    Senator Cruz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for convening this 
hearing. And thank you for the witnesses for being here today. 
Cyber attacks from state sponsored hackers represent a grave 
threat. These attacks strike at the health of our economy, 
undermine the functioning of our Government and security, and 
cost our Nation billions of dollars.
    State-backed hackers, especially those from the People's 
Republic of China, Russia, and Iran, are well-funded, highly 
sophisticated, and relentless in their exploits. No company 
could hold such a state aggressor at bay indefinitely once it 
is determined to attack. These attacks have become all too 
frequent.
    The latest one, the so-called Salt Typhoon, was a group of 
hackers reportedly linked to China's Ministry of State 
security, who embedded in our telecommunications infrastructure 
and remained undetected, monitoring America's communications 
networks.
    Based on public information, these Chinese hackers 
reportedly used backdoor channels to access sensitive 
government information about the integrity of their Chinese spy 
network operating in the United States.
    These hackers also accessed American citizens' unencrypted 
texts, audio calls, and potentially e-mails from around the 
country, and specifically targeted our Nation's leaders, 
including President-Elect Trump and Vice President-Elect Vance. 
There is still much unknown about the Salt Typhoon attack and 
details continue to emerge.
    What is clear is that it was a significant cybersecurity 
breach with far reaching implications for both the U.S. 
Government and the public. This incident underscores the 
persistent and malicious interference by the Chinese Communist 
Party, a belligerent state actor with a long history of 
exploiting cyber and telecom avenues to harm U.S. interests.
    This attack from a state actor against our Nation's 
infrastructure will not be the last. We must plug any 
vulnerabilities in communications networks. We already have in 
place a regime of cybersecurity authorities across multiple 
Government agencies.
    Now is the time to review and align these so they work 
robustly and efficiently to ensure that our Nation's 
cybersecurity is as strong as it can be. This, however, is only 
a start. For too long, the Biden-Harris Administration has 
tolerated cyberattacks from the People's Republic of China and 
others, while using these as a pretext to expand inefficient 
and redundant Government regulations of, at best, dubious 
efficacy.
    In the wake of this attack, we may hear more Pavlovian 
advocacy in this vein today. In fact, just last week, the Biden 
FCC announced a declaratory ruling and proposed rulemaking to 
impose ``a modern framework to help companies.''
    The press release is quite short on details, but this seems 
to be a bandaid at best and a concealment of a serious blind 
spot at worst. I have my doubts over whether an annual 
certification is the right solution, as well as questions about 
the FCC's technical expertise and legal authority on this 
matter.
    The FCC should not be using the waning days of this 
Administration to rush into regulatory expansion. Rather, the 
agency should be assisting cyber and national security experts 
of the Executive Branch to gather and disseminate the 
information in the public that the public and policymakers will 
need to fully address the issue in the next Administration.
    As I have noted before, the Federal Government has a poor 
track record of protecting against cyber attacks, and we should 
be cautious about placing too much faith in more regulation and 
reporting requirements to protect us. Redundant regulations and 
reporting requirements stifle investment and can weaken 
incentives to promote secure communications networks and to 
cooperate with Federal authorities.
    In addition to plugging any holes, we should look at 
coordinating the cybersecurity tools we already have in place 
at DHS, at the Department of Justice, and elsewhere. Where 
these conflict or overlap, I believe we should streamline and 
remove any chinks in the armor. But rather than finger pointing 
and punishment, we should be working constructively in asking 
what incentive structures could be implemented to make our 
cybersecurity defenses as strong as possible.
    Finally, the Biden-Harris Administration's lack of an 
effective response to the PRC's brazenness only emboldens our 
adversaries to push the boundaries further. One of my Senate 
colleagues called this ``the worst telecom hack in our Nation's 
history.'' If we continue the current Administration's approach 
of weakness and dubious knee jerk self-regulation, we may have 
to reply to that colleague, yes, until the next one. Thank you.
    Senator Lujan. Thank you, Senator. I will now recognize 
myself for five minutes for questions. Now, the providers that 
the Competitive Carriers Association represents are the 
smallest, most rural providers across the country.
    Thousands of Americans, but thousands of the most vital 
community institutions. As I stated earlier, schools, library, 
hospitals, community centers, even our 9-1-1 systems. Mr. 
Donovan, when there is a vulnerability at one place in one 
provider's network, how does that affect the rest of the 
network and the customers that rely on it?
    Mr. Donovan. Thank you for the question. Because the 
interconnected nature, a vulnerability of one truly is a 
vulnerability for all. If the network is breached, they can use 
that position to look at interconnection points, to monitor 
traffic patterns, to test out different attacks, and to use 
that as a launching point to attack other networks.
    It is a major problem there. It also includes data roaming 
where customers may roam on to another network and then back on 
to their home network. These are some significant problems, and 
so we do need to remove the vulnerability threats for all 
carriers.
    Senator Lujan. I appreciate that. Mr. Sherman, can you put 
the map displayed behind me into context. How do weak security 
standards in the construction of an undersea cable out in San 
Francisco or New York can impact institutions in New Mexico and 
the data that they protect?
    Mr. Sherman. Well, first you hit the nail on the head, 
right. We have these cables taking all kinds of data into and 
out of the country. So whether you are in Texas, or in New 
York, or New Mexico, or anywhere else, right, these cables are 
really central. I think the key two words are supply chain, 
right.
    Because we could worry about, for example, Huawei supplying 
the actual physical component, right, of the cable. We could 
worry about a bad actor repairing a cable and messing with it 
right when it's pulled up from the bottom of the ocean.
    And so the key is to make sure that across each part of the 
supply chain, we have the right standards in place, companies 
are following best practices, and we have groups like Team 
Telecom saying here are the extra national security risks we 
have to watch.
    Senator Lujan. Well, I want to thank you both for those 
responses. Now, our networks are highly interconnected, and I 
appreciate the emphasis that both you placed on that. A 
vulnerability at any point impacts all of us, and that is why 
it is important that we use tools at our disposal to fight 
attempts by foreign threat actors to find ways into our 
network.
    Now, as I said in my opening statement, I am very concerned 
by the Salt Typhoon hacks and am dedicated to getting to the 
bottom of how it happened and preventing an intrusion of this 
magnitude from ever happening again.
    On December 3, the FBI, CISA, and international partners 
released a guide on what cybersecurity practices 
telecommunication companies should have in place to resist 
attacks like Salt Typhoon.
    Mr. Sherman, reviewing this list, is this brand new 
information? And are these novel recommendations that the 
largest companies would have--would not have heard before the 
U.S. national security agencies?
    Mr. Sherman. Certainly not. And as my fellow witness noted, 
maybe that is different, right, for a smaller carrier or a 
medium-sized business. But nothing in there like use 
encryption, use multi-factor, you know, don't do a weak 
password, right, that is not news to a large carrier, right.
    That is not news to a large company. So I think the real 
problem and underscores, as you are saying, is that this 
guidance is not new, yet companies are still not implementing 
these basics to try and raise the floor of cybersecurity 
practices.
    Senator Lujan. So just to make sure that I understand, Mr. 
Sherman, most of the practices that the FBI and CISA are 
recommending are the things that large companies would know 
that they should already be doing?
    Mr. Sherman. That is my interpretation, yes.
    Senator Lujan. Doctor Mulvenon, yes or no, are there things 
companies could do today to strengthen their networks and 
resist cyber attacks in the future?
    Mr. Mulvenon. Yes, there are, Senator. I would only point 
out that the CISA guidance that you are citing, if you read 
between the lines, if you have read a lot of these, do more 
monitoring, you know, review your best practices list.
    It doesn't have any specific remediations that you have 
seen and other guidance where there is--where you can actually 
fix the vulnerability. Previous guidance from the Five Eyes 
partners and the FBI and NSA have actually provided the 
specific patches that would allow you to fix the vulnerability.
    The fact that they only call for monitoring and for better 
encryption and better multi-factor, actually if you read 
between those lines now you understand that the vulnerability 
is not fixable. That it is a hardware vulnerability that 
requires a generational equipment shift. And so, I think that 
that was one of the most important things that could be 
revealed here. Now, defense is, of course, always very good.
    But 15 years ago, the Department of Defense finally came to 
the conclusion that said simply concentrating on perimeter 
defense, buying a better firewall, you know, using VPNs and 
things along those lines was actually not going to be effective 
because of the advantage that the offense has in cyber warfare 
and in cyber espionage.
    Again, as I said before, they only have to find one way to 
get in. You have to find every way to stop them. As a result, 
the Department of Defense began implementing what they called 
defense in depth, which began with a very wise assumption, 
which is we should assume that all of the hardware and software 
in our infrastructure is either compromised or potentially 
compromised, but we need to nonetheless operate.
    And they began using a lot of very sophisticated techniques 
like VPNs and secure virtual machines and other things. So it 
didn't matter if the physical box in the rack was compromised 
because you could nonetheless operate securely within the 
machine. But again, it was based on the assumption that in this 
modern day, you can't ever believe that you don't have 
compromised hardware and software.
    So my only point is there is a limit to defense, and that 
is why deterrence through punishment really is the only thing 
that we have left to us because we cannot do deterrence through 
denial, to deny them access to the target that they are going 
after.
    Senator Lujan. I appreciate your answer. So should 
companies save money and not do any cyber security?
    Mr. Mulvenon. No, sir. In fact----
    Senator Lujan. Well just so that I am clear.
    Mr. Mulvenon. No, no, no. I understand----
    Senator Lujan. I am going to move on because I don't want 
us to lose track that these investments are critically 
important.
    Mr. Mulvenon. Yes.
    Senator Lujan. And they should not be ignored. I very much 
understand using multiple tools.
    Mr. Mulvenon. Right.
    Senator Lujan. But having a hardened system for water, 
electricity, for someone that you purchase a package from, and 
it delivers at the point, you know, from A to B, are absolutely 
necessary. I just don't want to lose sight of that.
    Now, Dr. Lewis, you noted in your testimony that while 
major banks spend 6 to 12 percent of their IT budgets on 
cybersecurity, major telecommunication company providers spend 
only 3 to 5 percent.
    What do you believe is the reason for the discrepancy and 
how do these companies need to--where do these companies--and 
how should these companies be investing more?
    Mr. Lewis. Thank you. The first answer, of course, is that 
banks have more money and so they can spend more. Second answer 
is the telecom companies are in one of those generational 
changes as they move to 5G. They are spending a lot on new 
infrastructure, and they have a different market.
    I mean, if your cell phone doesn't work, you switch 
carriers. So the margin for error is much smaller. So the 
telcos try hard, but they are just in a worse competitive 
position than the banks when it comes to this. I should note I 
talked to a senior executive at one of the big banks, and he 
said, look, there is really no difference.
    We are an Internet company now. So what the banks could do, 
the telcos could do. And perhaps to Senator Cruz's point, one 
of the reasons people believe the banks do better is they are 
more closely regulated by the financial authorities.
    Senator Lujan. Appreciate that, sir. Senator Moran, you are 
recognized for your questions.
    Senator Moran. I will yield to----
    Senator Lujan. Senator Cruz, you are recognized.
    Senator Cruz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Senator 
Moran. Dr. Mulvenon, let's start with you. You state in your 
testimony that, ``the United States is currently in a deep 
deterrence hole with respect to China.''
    Based on what you know about Salt Typhoon, as well as your 
extended knowledge of other state-based attacks on U.S. 
networks more broadly, is the problem we are facing one of 
insufficient regulation of domestic companies, or are there 
broader issues at play?
    Mr. Mulvenon. I really do believe, Senator, that it has to 
do with the strategic dynamic between Washington and Beijing, 
and that the carriers are really collateral damage in the 
discussion. It really has to do with a basic breakdown of 
deterrence stability that we have with the Chinese on a whole 
range of strategic topics, including space, nuclear weapons, 
and cyber.
    And it really has to do with the issue that the Chinese, at 
least in cyber, don't actually believe that they found our pain 
point yet because they haven't elicited a response from us that 
would suggest that they found our pain point.
    Senator Cruz. So what would provide meaningful deterrence?
    Mr. Mulvenon. Well, meaningful deterrence can really only 
be achieved through imposing costs rather than simply building 
better defenses, which as I have tried to point out, is more 
difficult.
    To Senator Lujan's comment, however, I would say that the 
most powerful weapon in the U.S. Government's arsenal is not 
the Trident D5 nuclear missile on the Ohio class submarine. It 
is actually the Federal acquisition regulations.
    Because to the extent to which the Federal acquisition 
regulations combine with better NIST standards for telecoms 
security, the U.S. Government is one of the largest consumers 
of telecommunications equipment in the United States, and 
through the Federal acquisition regulation, could simply raise 
the floor on the cybersecurity quality of the hardware going 
into the infrastructure.
    Senator Cruz. So should the Federal Government do that? And 
what precisely would that look like?
    Mr. Mulvenon. It has been going on for the last couple of 
years but going on very slowly. NIST has been very slowly 
raising the standard. And I would only highlight as a defense 
contractor that the defense industrial base is held to a much 
higher standard than non-defense contractors in the United 
States.
    And we actually have to adhere to a much higher level of 
cybersecurity standard for our networks. And the way that the 
U.S. Government, in fact, enforces that higher level of 
standard is through the Defense Federal Acquisition 
Regulations. In other words, if we want to stay in business, we 
have got to fix the cybersecurity.
    But in terms of our dynamic with Beijing, that is really 
beyond the purview of the companies for the same reason you 
said in your opening statement, which is no commercial company 
is able to withstand the dedicated activity of a state cyber 
actor.
    And that is really cyber deterrence comes down to a 
response policy by Cyber Command and the other elements of the 
U.S. Government in terms of imposing costs on the Chinese side 
such that it changes their calculus of the expected value of 
future attacks and intrusions.
    Senator Cruz. So, Dr. Lewis, you state in your testimony 
that countering China requires, quote, ``a sustained, direct, 
and more forceful effort to disincentivize the Chinese.'' In 
your judgment, what can a future Trump Administration do to 
curb the incentives of the Chinese to engage in these types of 
deeply troubling behaviors?
    Mr. Lewis. Thank you, Senator. I am hopeful that the 
incoming Administration will do this, but you need a two part 
strategy. First, you need to engage with the Chinese regularly 
the way we had arms control talks with the Soviets on nuclear 
weapons. You need to start by telling the Chinese, this is 
unacceptable. You have gone too far. And if you don't stop, we 
are going to take action.
    Now, they aren't going to stop, right. That is just--why 
would they believe us? So the next step is to actually do 
something. And this would be where Cyber Command or NSA 
probably needs to develop a menu of responses.
    Not the top end, but something a little lower down, 
probably going after their attack infrastructure in cyberspace 
and then go back to the Chinese and say, we weren't kidding. 
Now, do you want to talk?
    The Chinese aren't that interested in making a deal with 
us. I was there in September, and they basically said, you are 
on a downhill path. Why should we deal with you now? So I think 
the first step is to engage, warn them, and then take action.
    Senator Cruz. Dr. Mulvenon, you also state in your 
testimony that the FCC's recent announcement of plans to 
require communication providers to submit certification that 
they have implemented a cybersecurity risk management plan is 
``not nearly proactive enough.'' Are you concerned that the FCC 
might be so focused on doing something that it risks creating 
policies that merely appear effective without addressing the 
core of the problem?
    Mr. Mulvenon. Well, to be fair, it could have been worse. 
They could have called for a blue ribbon commission. But the 
FCC has direct regulatory oversight particularly over CALEA 
compliance. And in the past, when CALEA was expanded to include 
broadband and VoIP, those were led by orders from FCC.
    So what I expected to see in their press release was a 
specific discussion of CALEA compliance, and wiretapping 
compliance, and certification from the carriers that they were 
engaged in fixing the problem right now.
    Not some airy, fairy sort of annual certification, but that 
they were actually going to submit something within 90 days 
that actually described how they were going to actually 
remediate the specific vulnerability that caused Salt Typhoon 
in the first place, and I was surprised to not see it.
    Senator Cruz. So a final question to anyone on the panel 
who wishes to answer it. What should the American people know 
about Salt Typhoon, about what happened, and about the security 
of their communications?
    Mr. Donovan. Senator, I will share that Americans should 
know that we--our communications network has been attacked. 
That carriers are doing their best to provide service. There 
are things that consumers can do.
    RCS, Rich Communication Services for text messages that is 
encrypted end to end. If you use those services, then there is 
ways that even if somebody is watching the network, they cannot 
see what the traffic is.
    There are steps that consumers can also take to increase 
their security, and our carriers are trying to work to educate 
them on those while we are also working to kick the attackers 
out of the networks.
    Mr. Lewis. Thank you, Senator. I guess the first thing I 
would say is that they should know that we are losing, right. 
That we are not on the winning side of the scoreboard here in 
the telecommunications and cyber espionage battle.
    The second thing they need to know is their services that 
they depend on, whether it is delivery from company, or the 
phone, or the electricity are all at risk and are all 
potentially being held hostage by a hostile foreign power. That 
makes me nervous.
    Senator Cruz. Thank you.
    Senator Lujan. Thank you very much, Senator Cruz. Senator 
Hickenlooper, you are recognized.

             STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN HICKENLOOPER, 
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM COLORADO

    Senator Hickenlooper. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to 
you for coming here. We know how busy you are as well. This 
hearing today is obviously very timely. Salt Typhoon, as we 
have been discussing, pretty much everyone, is one of the most 
devastating cyber attacks in the country's history.
    It is a sobering reminder for all of us of how critical it 
is to make sure that our infrastructure is resilient to all 
types of threats from all types of adversaries. Certain threats 
like relying on equipment manufactured in China like Huawei or 
ZTE, it has been known for years. This technology leaves 
Americans vulnerable to spying.
    The data being stolen, marketed. When it was first created 
in 2019, the FCC's Rip and Replace program was designed to 
remove suspect Chinese network equipment from wide swaths of 
the U.S. networks.
    But the program is currently impacted by a $3 billion 
shortfall, leaving wireless networks vulnerable to espionage, 
disruption, forms of terrorism. There are thousands of wireless 
towers, often in rural areas, with dangerous equipment still 
hanging from them to this day.
    And behind me, you are going to see the--just how 
devastating Rip and Replace program's lack of funding is to 
Colorado, Nebraska, Wyoming, and to a lesser extent to many 
other states. Many of these are rural carriers, small 
businesses that have not been reimbursed for the costs of 
replacing this equipment for multiple years.
    We are delighted that the bipartisan fiscal bill of 2025 
National Defense Authorization Act will finally include a 
solution to fully fund the Rip and Replace program. The success 
of Rip and Replace will ensure wireless communications across 
rural America can continue without disruption or interruption.
    I am grateful to both Republicans and Democrats in this 
bipartisan effort, and the FCC who worked with us, to achieve 
this goal to protect the impacted communities. Let me now--let 
me ask a couple of questions.
    Mr. Lewis, when NTIA hosted the inaugural International 
Open RAN symposium this year in Golden, Colorado, I am forced 
to mention--it is a short drive from the NTIA's Institute for 
Telecommunication Sciences in Boulder.
    The symposium brought together experts from over 20 
countries to advance security and reliability, to make sure we 
have the successful adoption of Open RAN technology. Mr. Lewis, 
how would you open--and how would open and interoperable 
technologies like Open RAN help enhance the supply chain and 
address security concerns that have impacted the traditional 
networks?
    Mr. Lewis. Thank you, Senator. One of the things that 
happened over the last 20 years is that all of the American 
telecom companies were driven out of business, largely because 
of Huawei's advantages from the mothership. Open RAN has the 
opportunity to change that, and that is a real plus. It will 
not immediately guarantee better security. It will change the 
security problem.
    Open RAN is more like the Internet than the traditional 
telecom stack. That means it will have the same cybersecurity 
problems we know the Internet faces, which are different. But 
on the whole by getting China out of our supply chain, by 
finding ways to create new technologies, I think we will be 
better off. So that is the promise of Open RAN. Just a final 
thing.
    I used to--I meet with a lot of phone companies, and I used 
to ask them, what do you think of Open RAN? And until this 
year, all of them said, we are not going to use it. It is not 
reliable. That started to change.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Good. Mr. Sherman, the Office of 
National Cyber Director published a request for information 
last year to continue harmonizing the various cybersecurity 
regulations across the entire Federal Government.
    Their stakeholders, including telecom companies, they heard 
that regulations should be flexible and voluntary so that 
companies can innovate and respond to evolving, sophisticated 
threats. In addition to innovating, we should be doing more to 
improve our cyber basics, including adopting well-known best 
practices, you know, patching devices, making sure that we 
have--improving the access controls.
    Had these been in place across our critical infrastructure, 
we could have prevented many recent cyber attacks that 
compromised both our customers and our national security. Mr. 
Chairman, to continue improving our cyber defenses, how should 
we determine the right scope of mandatory cyber security?
    And where should the Federal Government stick to the 
flexible, voluntary compliance? What they obviously prefer but 
it is not always in the best interest of the country.
    Mr. Sherman. Yes, I think two things, right. One, as you 
said, is scoping which systems are we talking about, right. And 
for years we have identified what those critical infrastructure 
systems are, water treatment, energy.
    Obviously, today we are talking about telecommunications, 
subsea cables. So I think, as you are saying, the first part is 
which are the sectors, everything could be attacked, but where 
are the sectors where attacks, breaches, compromises are the 
most damaging for the American people and for national 
security.
    The second piece, as you said, is what are those basics? So 
certainly telling a small carrier, I am sure, to do 7,000 
things is not useful or productive, right. But large companies 
that still don't have multi-factor authentication, that is a 
terrible security practice, right. So we need to identify what 
are those basics.
    You mentioned some of them, encryption and others. Make 
sure that for those critical infrastructure sectors, 
organizations, right, they are aware of what to do and they are 
actually doing it.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Yes. And that is the required part. I 
agree. All right. I yield back. Thank you. Thank you.
    Senator Lujan. Senator Moran, you are recognized for your 
questions.
    Senator Moran. Chairman, thank you. Maybe this is to Dr. 
Lewis. Let me start there. So the information that China 
gathers from this most recent episode and the information they 
can continue to gather, what is its value to China?
    Mr. Lewis. Thank you, Senator. That is a great question. It 
is worth bearing in mind that the Chinese government is 
paranoid and composed entirely of control freaks. So some of 
the information they steal, it is not clear why they take it.
    The intellectual property that lets them design new 
products, like in the telecom sector, that makes sense. 
Traditional political, military espionage, you know what our 
war plans are, what our capabilities are, that makes sense.
    But some of the personal data they take really doesn't make 
sense. Now they do it at home because they are afraid of their 
own population, but they do it us too. The downside to this is 
we don't want to wake up one day and find out that the Chinese 
have figured out how to use the personal data they have been 
collecting on Americans. Heavens knows they are trying to 
figure out what the benefit could be.
    Senator Moran. Is there a benefit just of distraction, 
expense? United States is taking its eye off other balls while 
we address this issue?
    Mr. Lewis. I don't think so. I think it is a crucial part 
and I think my--all my fellows would agree with me. It is a 
crucial part of China's plan to overcome the United States.
    Senator Moran. That is useful for Americans to hear too, 
what you just said. And our unwillingness to respond in 
deterrence, looking the other way in a sense, is it expensive, 
lack of will?
    It seems to me that we have learned in other cold wars that 
you respond to your adversary's actions, and you respond in a 
way that diminishes those actions in the future.
    I appreciated your suggestion that there be negotiations or 
conversations that precede that, but if we are going to have 
any chance of success in combating these continual attacks, it 
has got to be a dramatic and real consequence to China, right?
    Mr. Lewis. No, that is absolutely correct. The Chinese--
part of it, and I think my colleagues would agree, part of 
deterrence is you have to be credible. You have to make 
credible threats. And since probably about 2010, other 
countries have concluded that our threats aren't credible.
    Senator Moran. And are there other countries where the 
threat is responded to or the actions are responded to, and 
there is a consequence unless--who else besides the United 
States is in the crosshairs of China?
    Mr. Lewis. All NATO members, Japan, Korea, Singapore, the 
Philippines.
    Senator Moran. Do all of them do it better than we do?
    Mr. Lewis. They are in the crosshairs of the Chinese. None 
of them do it in part because they are looking to us for a 
signal. They are looking for us to lead.
    Senator Moran. Mr. Mulvenon, something you want to say--add 
to that?
    Mr. Mulvenon. No. What I would say is that historically, 
when I have spoken with previous Administrations about response 
options, the caution has always been the situation is 
asymmetrical, the domain is asymmetrical. The United States is 
asymmetrically vulnerable because we are a more digital wired 
society, therefore we have more to lose. Therefore, we 
shouldn't respond.
    My response to that has always been, but over time, the 
Chinese economy, the Chinese population, key elements of the 
Chinese digital infrastructure have, in fact, become much more 
modernized. And I would argue that we have achieved a relative 
level of symmetry where that asymmetry argument really doesn't 
hold any water for me anymore.
    To be honest, I have over the years burned my own hole in 
the ozone layer driving up to central Maryland trying to talk 
to people about ranges of response options, even when we had 
very clear understanding of who had done it and why, and even 
with a discussion about the whole range of U.S. national power, 
not simply tit for tat in cyber.
    And as I pointed out, during the first Trump 
Administration, the lowering of the authorization threshold 
under NSPN 13 actually resulted in greater activity, response 
activity. And one thing I would highlight, for instance, as a 
success was the attack against the Internet Research Agency in 
St. Petersburg, which we knew had been responsible for some 
level of election interference.
    And there is a school of thought that said there was less 
election interference originating from that type of 
organization in the subsequent election because we hit imposed 
cost on the Internet Research Agency.
    Senator Moran. Do we have the capability of responding?
    Mr. Mulvenon. We do have the capability of responding 
across a whole variety of measures, including cyber. And so it 
isn't a capabilities discussion. It is absolutely a political 
will and national command authority decisionmaking discussion.
    Senator Moran. And finally, would we know if we responded? 
I have often wondered if we have responded to Chinese attacks, 
cyber attacks on the United States, and China would never 
report that we had responded to those attacks.
    Mr. Mulvenon. Well, to be honest, sir, I don't think that 
that's the metric of success. In many ways, if we wanted--if we 
want the Chinese to de-escalate, something that they see and 
understand the consequences of but doesn't create a public 
situation where they feel reputational shame where they then 
have to respond again, probably is the best outcome.
    Senator Moran. You are right. You took that differently 
than I had intended. My point was that I would feel better if 
we are responding as compared to waiting, but we just didn't 
know that we had responded because the Chinese never made an 
issue of it. I just wanted to make sure that there is not a 
fact out there that I don't know or that we don't know about 
something we are doing.
    Mr. Mulvenon. Yes. I would turn the logic upside down and 
say deductively, again in an open hearing, deductively you 
could conclude from the increasing severity of the Chinese 
intrusions and attacks that we have not in fact previously 
imposed costs on them that has changed their cost benefit 
calculations.
    Senator Moran. Thank you for reminding a member of the U.S. 
Senate about logic.
    Mr. Mulvenon. No, sir.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Lujan. Senator Peters, you are recognized.

                STATEMENT OF HON. GARY PETERS, 
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM MICHIGAN

    Senator Peters. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I want to 
thank all of our witnesses for being here. You know, each of 
your testimonies touched on the threat posed by our--to our 
national security and to our rural broadband by the Chinese 
telecommunication firms Huawei and ZTE.
    And that is why I was proud to have joined many others in 
successfully fighting for funding to close the Rip and Replace 
shortfall in this year's National Defense Authorization Act, 
which we expect to become law in just a matter of a few weeks 
here. As I have said before, we shouldn't make rural 
communities choose between being fully connected and having 
their connections compromised by our adversaries.
    This is actually particularly big news back in Michigan, 
and specifically for Northern Michigan University, which 
provides Internet to 7,400 students and over 16,000 families in 
the Upper Peninsula. And for the first time in years, they are 
going to now be able to upgrade and expand their service.
    So, Mr. Donovan, my question is for you, sir. How 
significant is this funding for a provider like Northern 
Michigan University? And how do networks like theirs in the 
Upper Peninsula, a very rural area, work to drive more activity 
around rural broadband that otherwise would probably simply not 
even be feasible?
    Mr. Donovan. Thank you, Senator. And thank you for your 
support and push to get this program funded over the years.
    And I join you in my optimism that it will get across the 
goal line in the coming weeks and just really appreciate all 
your efforts on that. It is absolutely essential for these 
companies. They have been frozen for the last five years, 
unable to patch, unable to upgrade, unable to buy spare parts.
    This allows them to complete the Rip and Replace build and 
then move forward. The effect is life changing in communities 
like the areas that they serve because simply no one else is 
going to go there. The economy is being what they are of the 
sparse populations and the terrain that they serve, it is 
incredibly hard to make a business case to build it out. They 
are doing it because it is part of their mission to connect 
their community.
    And I want to make clear also that let's not confuse small 
operators with being unsophisticated. These are operating 
state-of-the-art networks that are doing this. The biggest 
challenge is the information asymmetry that they have where you 
get a guidance of, you know, update your passwords, have these 
right things in place, but it is not actionable.
    We need a little bit more of look here, go do this. Give 
the carriers something so that when the intelligence community 
is aware of threats, that the small carriers and all carriers 
can take the steps that are necessary with clear guidance.
    Senator Peters. Yes. Very good. Mr. Lewis, one of my top 
priorities as a member of this committee, as well as Chair of 
Homeland Security and Government Affairs, is protecting 
American consumers and companies from the national security and 
economic threat posed by Chinese connected vehicles on our 
roads.
    That is why I pushed the Commerce Department to publish its 
proposed rule to block the import and sale of Chinese 
controlled connected vehicles here in the United States. And 
even if they were manufactured in companies--in countries like 
Mexico. Mr. Lewis, you have raised concerns in the past about 
the Chinese government's goal of using dominance in connected 
and automated vehicle technology to exploit the national 
security of our country.
    So, sir, could you please discuss the national security 
risk associated with Chinese infiltration and control of the 
data sharing infrastructure modern vehicles operate, and the 
importance of U.S. leadership in innovation in this space if we 
hope to prevent these vulnerabilities from occurring?
    Mr. Lewis. Thank you, Senator. And thanks for your work on 
this, because it is an issue that is often ignored. But we all 
know, or we all should know that by now your car is a rolling 
computer, and that most cars, certainly those built in the last 
few years, connect to the telecommunications network through a 
module.
    The biggest makers of those modules are Chinese. It is a 
worrisome problem for the carmakers because if you stop buying 
from those Chinese companies, you won't be able to have a 
connected car. And I have talked with both European and 
American car manufacturers about the dilemmas of moving this 
out and what can they do. Well, first of all, they know where 
you are, right. The car is transmitting a signal. It gives away 
your location. You can think of scenarios where that location 
data would be useful.
    Second, it gives you the ability to perhaps interfere with 
the performance of the car. We don't want to go all Hollywood 
and have people turning cars off in mid-flight or whatever, but 
it is a risk that your performance could be interfered with in 
a crisis, for example. Again, you can think of scenarios. So we 
have found ourselves in a situation not just in this but with 
others where we went for the lowest cost supplier.
    We thought the Chinese were going to be friends. They are 
embedded throughout our infrastructure, and it will be hard to 
get them out. Cars are a leading example of this, though, 
because the modules that come from China, the updates, the 
patching, all of that creates opportunity for mischief.
    Senator Peters. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Lujan. Senator Budd, you are recognized for your 
questions.

                  STATEMENT OF HON. TED BUDD, 
                U.S. SENATOR FROM NORTH CAROLINA

    Senator Budd. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate you 
holding this hearing. And I thank the panel. This is truly 
fascinating. You know, public reporting around the Salt Typhoon 
hack is deeply concerning and speaks to the massive scale of 
Chinese efforts to infiltrate America's telecommunications 
infrastructure.
    Today's testimony referenced the mismatch between the scope 
of the threat and the ability to harden networks, incredibly 
deter malign state actors like China from trying again. China's 
heavy subsidies and commercial espionage for Huawei and ZTE 
have helped make them global leaders in deployed networks.
    I am pleased to see that the National Defense Authorization 
Act, which my colleague mentioned just a moment ago, that 
included funding to finally rip--complete the Rip and Replace 
of this compromised technology in U.S. networks. So, Dr. 
Mulvenon, what else could the U.S. be doing to combat the 
global dominance of Chinese hardware providers?
    Mr. Mulvenon. So the thing is, as we discussed Open RAN 
earlier, there are a number of interesting dynamics, 
particularly in 5G. When we decided to adopt a plurilateral 
strategy where we decided to work with our OECD allies in 
Europe and Japan and South Korea, we confronted a number of 
dilemmas.
    One is that even if we don't buy Huawei equipment, that 
because of the--Huawei's involvement in the standard setting 
for 5G, that they actually get 40 percent of the royalties for 
the patents from 5G.
    So even companies--even non-Huawei companies that sell 5G 
equipment, Huawei is still financially benefiting under the 
3GPP standard setting process. Open RAM gave us an opportunity 
to get out of that trap and in fact be the basis for 
cooperation among OECD partners in an open source way that 
would not get bogged down in particular royalties and 
particular patents.
    It was also important in that case to break down any 
antitrust barriers that might exist between, for instance, 
Nokia and Ericsson in Europe, and Juniper and Cisco in the 
United States that would prevent them from working together to 
actually build a coherent end-to-end handset to base station to 
servers offering of an alternative to 5G for--as an alternative 
to Huawei and ZTE for the global South, for Africa, for South 
America, for Southeast Asia. Because for a long time there was 
no Western company that actually offered an end-to-end offering 
that could compete with Huawei's.
    And so the things that we were doing in Open RAN, the 
things we were doing in those plurilateral frameworks, I think 
strengthened our ability to not only push back against Huawei's 
global dominance, which had national security implications, but 
it also allowed us to strengthen our own companies to be able 
to compete on a relatively level playing field.
    Senator Budd. You know, 5G has been talked about for years 
from here to the dinner table but we are only recently hearing, 
at least in these settings, about Open RAN. Why the disconnect 
there?
    Mr. Mulvenon. Well, I mean, the carriers were right for a 
number of years that Open RAN wasn't as robust to be able to 
handle tier one level traffic as the current standards were. 
But that is why we invested so much money in Open RAN was to 
help it catch up so that in fact the carriers wouldn't resist 
that by saying it is actually going to reduce our performance 
in terms of providing telecommunication service.
    So Open RAN had a lot of work to do, but I would argue and 
agreeing with Dr. Lewis that in fact Open RAN is much more 
mature and robust right now and is a credible alternative for 
the carriers. There are a lot of benefits to going to open 
source, by the way, as opposed to a closed source patent and 
royalty environment in which clearly Huawei is financially 
benefiting.
    Senator Budd. Thank you. Mr. Donovan, I wanted to briefly 
ask you, you mentioned that it is difficult for smaller 
providers to navigate these complex cybersecurity requirements 
from all these different agencies that sometimes they overlap, 
sometimes they don't align with each other. Should this 
committee look at addressing streamlined cybersecurity 
requirements, and how could we encourage private sector 
investment in cybersecurity?
    Mr. Donovan. Yes, sir. That certainly would help by having 
some coordinated response and making sure that you are taking 
information collection regulations requirements that are 
already in place and using those as much to build on them into 
the cyber instead of creating new frameworks that make it even 
more challenging for smaller operators in particular to 
navigate.
    Senator Budd. Much appreciated. Thank you.
    Senator Lujan. Senator Welch, you are recognized for your 
questions.

                STATEMENT OF HON. PETER WELCH, 
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM VERMONT

    Senator Welch. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I want to 
thank all the witnesses. It is very helpful. You know, there 
are a couple of things that come to mind as I am listening. 
Obviously, if China infiltrates, there are national security 
risks, there is an infrastructure risk, there is company 
security risk, and then potentially individuals.
    Mr. Lewis, you said that there is not any--you don't know 
why, or China doesn't even know why they might try to get 
individual consumer information or citizen information. Are 
they--is there evidence that they are absolutely--they are 
trying to do that specifically?
    Mr. Lewis. Yes. Thank you, Senator. Unfortunately, there 
is.
    Senator Welch. So why would they want somebody's 
information in Norwich, Vermont, let's say? And what 
information is it that they would be going after?
    Mr. Lewis. Well, you could improve their intelligence 
analysis. You could better identify targets for some sort of 
covert action.
    Senator Welch. I don't get that. I mean, that sounds like 
it is specific. I mean, if you randomly get somebody like you 
throw a dart at the old phone book and you get a name, you come 
up with some information, how is that going to help you do 
anything?
    Mr. Lewis. Because the technology allows it. Because the 
same way that Amazon or Google can track tens of millions of 
people and say this is what they want for Christmas, this is 
what they want for, you know, in their stocking. That is 
something that the Chinese are able to do. So they are looking 
for political benefit. They are looking for----
    Senator Welch. All right. So, I mean, so how do we deal 
with this? There is always going to be an effort to infiltrate, 
right, by adversaries. And China is very aggressive, and you 
have talked about that. But what is the best way to deal with 
that and who bears the burden? I mean, the big telecom 
companies are the ones that have the systems in place.
    Mr. Lewis. Thank you----
    Senator Welch. As opposed to a small individual consumer.
    Mr. Lewis. I think one of the things that we have all said 
is that this requires a national response to change Chinese 
behavior. A phone company going to China and saying, please 
stop. They will just laugh.
    Senator Welch. Well, that is the deny and deterrence that 
you were talking about. I get that. So there would be a 
national response if we are going to try to punish China or 
another adversary by infecting their systems. But what is the 
deterrence--what's the deny? I mean, who is responsible to set 
up a denial system?
    Mr. Lewis. Well, there are a couple of things you could do. 
And this Administration has made some progress, and it is 
probable that the next Administration will continue it. Here is 
a good example.
    When this last transition occurred, there was a company 
called SolarWinds that was hacked. One of the targets now is go 
for the server--the third party service providers, because you 
hack once, and you get hundreds of targets. SolarWinds had a 
password for their updater. It was SolarWinds 1, 2, 3, right.
    That is not going to stifle, I mean, the Chinese or the 
Russians for very long. You had the OPM hack where 17 million 
Americans, including I think some of us on this panel, had our 
information----
    Senator Welch. Let me go to Mr. Sherman. I was going to--
yes, you and then Mr. Mulvenon.
    Mr. Sherman. Yes, I think it is two things, right. As we 
are saying, we have to identify where a company is not 
following best practices. How do we require to raise the floor?
    Again, I don't think we should be writing 8,000, you know, 
bullet points down and putting it in a law that doesn't change, 
but we can't keep doing this voluntary business anymore where 
companies don't have any requirements in critical 
infrastructure sectors. And some they do, right. But where they 
don't, we can't do this voluntary thing anymore.
    Senator Welch. So how do we hold them accountable and how 
do we impose that obligation?
    Mr. Sherman. Yes. Well, as one of my fellow witnesses 
mentioned, the Federal contracting is a huge way of getting 
that language in. You can do ongoing audits in ways that are--
right, there are tons of technology now, innovative stuff from 
the private sector to do ongoing auditing anyway.
    Lots of companies do this. So it is not like you are adding 
on some massive cost necessarily to go in as the Government or 
somebody and take a look at what those metrics are looking 
like.
    Senator Welch. But the burden would be on those companies 
to do that?
    Mr. Sherman. To improve the baseline, absolutely.
    Senator Welch. Mr. Mulvenon, you were going to--looked like 
you wanted to answer this too, but before you do, one of the 
huge concerns I have is the things that Mr. Donovan is talking 
about. I am from Vermont.
    Rural carrier--you know, it is small and there is no way 
our small companies can bear the regulatory burdens that might 
be associated with best practices for national security. They 
just can't do it. And the bottom line then is that people who 
need access to the Internet won't have it. So, and maybe you 
can address that Mr. Mulvenon.
    Mr. Mulvenon. I agree with you, Senator. In fact, what we 
have said from the beginning is even the large carriers, even 
the tier ones, are not technically capable of withstanding the 
determined efforts of a state-based cyber actor. And so that 
shouldn't be the standard.
    I would push back a little bit on the idea of why the 
Chinese are gathering this information. The OPM hack, which 
stole the personal information of everyone in the U.S. 
Government at the time who had a security clearance, combined 
with the CareFirst Blue Cross, Blue Shield hack, the Anthem 
hack, the Experian financial data hack, based on what I do for 
a living, if I had that information about an adversary, I would 
have a highly precise and detailed understanding that would 
allow me to do a range of targeting of those individuals.
    The amount of data that Americans have out in the wild that 
could then be put together in ways that could be used for 
recruitment, for disruption of what they are doing. And so if 
you have all of that data to begin with and then you have a 
Salt Typhoon, we are knowing already all of the personal 
information necessary to then drill into the tier one providers 
customer records to be able to identify who then you want to--
you want to actually listen to the phone calls of and be able 
to listen to the voice-mails of, that is exactly the 
intelligence sequence that you would need----
    Senator Welch. To be able to do that. So basically, it adds 
up.
    Mr. Mulvenon. Absolutely.
    Senator Welch. I yield back. Thank you.
    Mr. Lewis. Can I add one thing, Senator?
    Senator Welch. Sure.
    Mr. Lewis. One of the reasons I think we are all frustrated 
is that we actually know what to do now. And so between NSA, 
Australian Signals Directorate, other partners, we have 
identified the minimal number of steps that will reduce the 
effectiveness of most cyber attacks by 80 to 90 percent. There 
is something called known Exploitable Vulnerabilities Program 
that some of the private companies do. We know how to lower the 
threat considerably; we just aren't doing it.
    Senator Lujan. Thank you, Senator. Senator Blackburn, 
Senator Blackburn, you are recognized for your questions.

              STATEMENT OF HON. MARSHA BLACKBURN, 
                  U.S. SENATOR FROM TENNESSEE

    Senator Blackburn. Thank you so much. And thank you all for 
being here for the hearing. I appreciate it. Mr. Mulvenon, I 
want to come to you. And let's talk a little bit about what you 
refer to as the deterrence hole regarding China, noting that 
deterrence can involve denial and hardening networks or it can 
involve punishment, which really relies on that retaliation 
from credible threats.
    So have you talked about deterrence by punishment may be 
being more effective, but we are looking at an increase in 
these threats and attacks, and you all just touched on that 
with Senator Welch. So as we look at a new Administration 
coming in, talk to me a little bit about lessons learned.
    And you are just saying we know how to do this and that is 
why it is frustrating. So drill down on that. What can we look 
at with a cyber deterrence posture? What opportunities would be 
there for cyber diplomacy and offensive capabilities, and 
things that would actually discourage our adversaries from 
trying to carry out the attacks in the first place?
    Mr. Mulvenon. Thank you, Senator. I want to be clear that 
obviously we should do everything we can on the defensive side 
to bolster deterrence through denial by not making it easy for 
the adversary to get in the network.
    The key issue that I often run into when talking to people 
about this is a belief that there is a silver bullet out there, 
there is a technology, there is a U.S. vendor that has a piece 
of hardware or a piece of software that is the answer and 
therefore there are going to be no more intrusions.
    But unfortunately, the nature of the cyber domain is such 
that the offense is always outpacing the defense. So my point 
is, deterrence through denial is impossible to be the only 
solution. It has to be paired with deterrence through 
punishment. We have done a lot of deterrence through denial, 
through equipment upgrades and software upgrades.
    Deterrence through punishment into the case of China is not 
something that we have pursued. We have done it on a limited 
basis with the Russians. We have done it with lesser powers. We 
have seen real impact from it. But it is, as you suggest, 
Senator, a range of things. First and foremost is a declaratory 
policy, a declaratory policy that draws a line that you can 
defend.
    Now, often our declaratory policy in cyber is something 
pretty anodyne along the lines of the U.S. Government reserves 
the right at a time and place of its own choosing to respond to 
a cyber attack against a U.S. target with the full measure of 
U.S. national power. It is not that we haven't said it out loud 
that is the problem.
    It is that we haven't backed it up. And what that means is 
when we have attacks like the attack against Sony, the attack 
against GitHub, the attack, you know, Volt, Flax, and Salt 
Typhoon, the world is awaiting understanding what our response 
is going to be and whether we are going to impose costs in any 
potential realm.
    What we know doesn't work is naming and shaming. We know 
that, you know, blasting the operators and putting them out on 
an Interpol red notice does not do anything. We know that 
talking to them about it alone doesn't do anything.
    One area where we did have some--frankly, some very 
positive results was when the Obama Administration put out an 
Executive Order ascribing cyber sanctions to Chinese state-
owned enterprise executives and others that financially 
benefited from Chinese commercial cyber espionage. Because we 
were touching people that were actually directly connected to 
the leadership.
    Senator Blackburn. Right.
    Mr. Mulvenon. I am a big follow the money guy in that 
sense. But at the end of the day, there are things we can do in 
this symmetrical domain where we can actually signal to the 
Chinese in cyber that we are holding capabilities that they 
have at risk.
    We can do it in a gray way that is not publicly visible so 
that they don't feel that international reputational shame, 
feel like they have to respond in order to defend national 
dignity. But they nonetheless will get the message that, in 
fact, there will be costs in the future if they do something 
like that again.
    Senator Blackburn. Right. Thank you. Mr. Sherman, I have a 
question for you dealing with the undersea cables and the way 
the U.S. is relying on foreign repair ships to go in. And of 
course, we are concerned about the Chinese vessels that are 
dragging anchors to cut these cables.
    And I want--and I will let you submit this since I am 
running out of time, but I would like to get what you think 
about investing in a subsea cable repair, and what we should be 
doing there in order to make certain that we are protecting the 
undersea cables? But since I am out of time, let's submit that 
one for the record. Thank you all.
    Senator Lujan. Thank you, Senator Blackburn. Senator 
Markey, you are recognized for questions.

               STATEMENT OF HON. EDWARD MARKEY, 
                U.S. SENATOR FROM MASSACHUSETTS

    Senator Markey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you so 
much for having this incredibly important hearing. In 1994, 
when the House debated the Communications Assistance for Law 
Enforcement Act, or CALEA, I was the Chairman of 
Telecommunications in the House of Representatives.
    I think Mr. Donovan remembers that. And I took to the House 
floor to discuss the importance of safeguarding the 
constitutional and privacy rights of the public in that debate 
on the House floor. I also pushed on the House floor for clear, 
comprehensive cybersecurity standards, recognizing that a back 
door into our telecom networks would create an enticing target 
for hackers, domestically and internationally.
    30 years later, those privacy risks have become abundantly 
clear with the Salt Typhoon hack, which Chinese hackers 
reportedly exploited that back door to spy on Americans' phone 
calls. This hack appears to be the most disastrous and 
impactful telecommunications hack in our Nation's history.
    As our witnesses and my colleagues have said today, we 
urgently need to enhance our cybersecurity defenses to ensure a 
hack of this nature never happens again. Mr. Lewis, you talk in 
your written testimony about how the FCC should use Section 105 
of CALEA to secure our telecommunication systems. Can you 
elaborate on what the Commission should do under this 
authority?
    Mr. Lewis. Thank you, Senator. As you well know from 
chairing the Committee that drafted CALEA, it had cybersecurity 
provisions in it, and perhaps they haven't been lived up to as 
much as we would like.
    Senator Markey. And I would have been the one putting those 
provisions in at that time. So they have not been used, is that 
what you are saying?
    Mr. Lewis. They are being used incompletely, partially. We 
could do a better job. That is a good starting point. FCC and 
other parts of the new Administration will need to figure out 
what to do next on supply chain, on Federal acquisition 
regulations. But CALEA is a good place to start for the FCC.
    Senator Markey. And why do you think they never acted, the 
FCC, over the years?
    Mr. Lewis. Well, some of it is there is a presumption that 
the companies are doing the right thing. And in many cases, 
they were. What we have is a very dynamic, well-resourced 
opponent.
    Senator Markey. The opponent is?
    Mr. Lewis. China.
    Senator Markey. Right. But we also have a well-resourced 
telecommunications industry.
    Mr. Lewis. Not in comparison, unfortunately, Senator. The 
Chinese are willing to spend money that the telcos could only 
dream of to get into their systems. So it is a dynamic battle 
and what might have worked five years ago doesn't work now.
    Senator Markey. And, well, obviously what the Chinese had 
five years ago wasn't the same as what the Chinese have today. 
So it is a constant game of spy versus spy. It is like Mad 
magazine, right. And if one side stops spending and the other 
side gains the advantage. So there obviously has to be some 
additional spending, which, you know, takes place and if it is 
not the companies----
    Mr. Lewis. Well, the oversight part is important too, 
because if you look at the rules in CALEA, written so many 
years ago, they are actually adequate, right. They are written 
in a way that they could be implemented. Who is making sure 
that someone is following them? And that is where some of the 
things that the FCC has proposed now for annual reporting 
probably is useful.
    Senator Markey. No, I appreciate that. You know, 
interestingly, four years ago, as soon as Trump came in, the 
telecom companies wanted to have a Congressional Repeal Act, 
repeal of the privacy laws that had just been passed by the 
Federal Communications Commission and all of the Republicans 
came out and voted to repeal all the privacy laws that were on 
the books at the behest of the telecommunications companies, 
which passed. We have nothing right now.
    And so I think it is more complex, to be honest with you. I 
think the telecom companies could have done a lot more, but 
they don't want to do anything on children's privacy or on--or 
even these security upgrades.
    You just have to spend the money. You are in that business. 
You just have to accept that that is your--that is part of 
network reliability. So I think the hack does deserve 
attention, immediate action, and I am glad the Commission has 
begun the process to require telecom providers to secure their 
networks and urge the Agency to use the full scope of its 
authority to protect our communications system.
    It is not just a vulnerability that comes from the Chinese, 
but it can come from any other place in the world as well. And 
ultimately, the private sector just has to have a 
responsibility to upgrade to protect. That is the cost of doing 
business. It is just the way it is. And the same thing is true, 
by the way for network climate resilience.
    You know, we just really need to improve the resilience of 
against climate of our telecommunications system. So just if 
you could yes or no to each of our witnesses, do you agree that 
we must invest additional resources to protect our 
communications networks against climate change and natural 
disasters, yes or no?
    Mr. Lewis. It is sort of a no brainer, but I will say yes.
    Senator Markey. OK, good. Mr. Sherman.
    Mr. Sherman. Yes.
    Mr. Donovan. Yes.
    Mr. Mulvenon. Yes.
    Senator Markey. No, thank you. It is coming and there is 
nothing that is going to stop it. You know, climate deniers are 
not dealing with the reality of this right. And it can hit 
North Carolina. It can cause--unbelievable. You know the number 
in--from the two storms, Milton and Helene, total damage to the 
United States, $300 billion in two weeks--$300 billion. And 
that is just a preview of coming atrocities.
    And it can wipe out telecommunication systems. It can wipe 
out anything in its path. And it is just kind of--these are 
baby storms compared to what is going to happen in five or ten 
more years if we don't deal with climate change. Our whole 
defense budget is $800 billion. That was $300 billion in two 
weeks. And anything and everything in its path just got 
completely and totally wiped out.
    So, Mr. Chairman, I can't tell you how grateful I am for 
this hearing. And you are saying, Dr. Lewis, they are going to 
use that inherent authority that we built into the 1994 law to 
finally, you know. So I am very grateful for that. And you want 
to add something, Mr. Donovan? I am being indulged by the 
Chairman right now. Yes.
    Mr. Donovan. I would just add that part of that--of the 
funding necessary in other another program that you know well, 
with Universal Service Fund, that is simply put, we are under 
attack on USF in the courts right now, and that creates 
uncertainty that could strip away the funding that allows these 
companies to even exist, let alone invest in their 
cybersecurity.
    Senator Markey. No, I get it. Thank you. I appreciate it. 
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Lujan. Thank you, Senator. Senator Rosen, you are 
recognized for your questions.

                STATEMENT OF HON. JACKY ROSEN, 
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM NEVADA

    Senator Rosen. Well, thank you, Chairman Lujan and Ranking 
Member Moran. This hearing, like everyone said, it is so 
incredibly important. This is an issue that is fundamental to 
our national security. And I want to thank all of our witnesses 
for your work, for being here. And as everyone has been so 
worried or worried about zero trust right, because many 
cybersecurity practices, they span over sectors.
    Implementing multi-factor authentication, mandatory 
training on recognizing threats and not just once a year for a 
half hour, really trying to reinforce cyber hygiene, data 
minimization. It is really important, being sure that we talk 
about that zero trust architecture where verification is 
required at every major point of access. And historically, our 
telephone networks were built assuming that only those with 
authorized access would be able to get into certain pieces of 
the network.
    But of course, we know it is no longer the case. So, Mr. 
Donovan, I am going to ask you a little bit of a two part 
question. What dynamics have prevented the telecom industry, 
especially small providers, from building networks with zero 
trust approach?
    And what could Congress and Federal agencies do to ensure 
providers, big and small, are empowered to prioritize security 
in their network? And I am going to ask Mr. Sherman if you have 
anything to add.
    Mr. Donovan. Well, thank you for the question. You know, 
there is a couple of different buckets. One for the carriers 
that are going through the Rip and Replace process. There has 
been the lack of funding to complete that and to remove this 
untrusted equipment from their networks.
    But for all carriers and to continue what I was mentioning 
a little bit before that it has been the lack of the Universal 
Service Fund to maintain, to continue, to allow operating 
expenses to include cyber.
    The margins are extraordinarily tight, and we need to have 
that support to maintain telecommunications service in rural 
America. Just like why the program was created. To the latter 
point, it really is--it is full on information sharing so that 
we have an all Government approach to help carriers respond to 
some of these attacks and get ahead of them. Cyber is a scale 
game and so we need everyone working together on this.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you. Mr. Sherman, do you have anything 
to add?
    Mr. Sherman. Just two things. One, as we have heard, right, 
we are not going to stop hacking. That is not going to go away. 
But we should not be making it easy for people to get into 
systems.
    So those baselines, again, are important, and making some 
of them mandatory are important. The second piece, as we have 
also been talking about, I think is know your vendor, know your 
supplier. It is way too easy, right. These systems are far too 
interconnected, whether it is subsea cables, mobile telecom 
networks, health care, whatever, right.
    It is way too interconnected with too many companies, too 
many parts made in too many different places that if you are 
not aware of where those parts are made, have they been tested, 
who owns it, that is a huge vulnerability space. So, you know, 
again, we have analogies in other sectors for KYC and banking 
and other areas. We should be taking those principles and 
frameworks and applying them to these technology issues.
    Senator Rosen. Yes, I couldn't agree more. I actually wrote 
a little software system--many years ago, and so I know a 
little bit about this.
    But I want to talk about the funding piece because this is 
so important to all of us, and you talked about the Universal 
Service Fund and others, but we think about the E-Rate program 
and how do we allow schools and libraries to use funding for 
cybersecurity. And we know that they have received $5 billion 
in requests over the first year.
    We think about how we expand some of those things on the E-
Rate program. So to all of the witnesses, I know I am moving on 
to something a little different. Are there other Federal 
telecom programs that we could expand eligible expenses to 
cyber security? Is it worth establishing a specific program for 
telecom cyber security?
    Because in my opinion, if simply adding cybersecurity 
requirements, is that really enough? So, Mr. Donovan, we will 
start with you. Should we expand or should we try to create an 
overarching system that everyone can use?
    Mr. Donovan. Senator, I think you touched on a really 
important piece of this, that it is one thing to tell an 
industry, you need to do more, you need to do this, you need to 
provide us reports.
    But if there isn't--aren't the resources available for 
those carriers, no matter the best of their intentions, they 
simply cannot do that. As Senator Welch touched on before, you 
will drive these companies out of business. We need to make 
sure that we are resourcing them to address these threats.
    Senator Rosen. Anyone else have anything to add in my last 
few seconds, thinking about maybe setting some templates that 
certainly some of our smaller carriers can use that would make 
them less vulnerable to----
    Mr. Lewis. There is something we could add, Senator, and it 
is a good question. We talked about it a little earlier before 
you joined us, but the Federal Government is actually the 
largest single consumer of IT products and services in the 
United States and one of the biggest in the world.
    So changing the Federal acquisition regulations to require 
more secure hardware, more secure software, more secure 
services would benefit everyone, including some of these 
smaller institutions that we have been talking about.
    It is nice because you don't have to choose to sell to the 
Government, but we think that it would create incentives for 
people to improve their products without adding to the budget 
woes.
    Senator Rosen. Well, thank you. And Mr. Chairman, this 
hearing overall has been so incredibly helpful. I appreciate it 
and thank you again.
    Senator Lujan. Senator Rosen, thank you very much. Senator 
Klobuchar, you are recognized for your questions.

               STATEMENT OF HON. AMY KLOBUCHAR, 
                  U.S. SENATOR FROM MINNESOTA

    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and 
thank you for this hearing. I am sorry, I had the Capitol 
Police Chief before us today in the Rules Committee or I would 
be there in person.
    I am the Co-Chair of the Next Generation 9-1-1 Caucus, and 
our focus is on ensuring that our emergency communications are 
secure. Ransomware attacks have taken down 9-1-1 systems. As 
the witnesses know, in August, a cyber attack caused outages to 
the 9-1-1 system in Austin, Texas.
    And in 2018, Baltimore's 9-1-1 dispatch system had to be 
shut down because of hackers. And of course, many, many other 
things have been warded off because of good work at the 
Federal, state, and local levels.
    Mr. Donovan, in your view, what can Congress do to ensure 
the resiliency of our emergency response systems in the face of 
a cyber threat, especially in rural areas?
    Mr. Donovan. Thank you for the question, Senator. I think 
this is a continuation that these networks are interconnected. 
The telecommunications services help power emergency services, 
9-1-1.
    As we talked about earlier in the hearing, even--our 
automobiles going on. And so, it is shoring up those 
vulnerabilities across the entire ecosystem will earn benefits 
on an emergency services and 9-1-1.
    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you. Mr. Lewis, I believe the 
public and private sector have to work together whenever 
possible on this. We know oftentimes the private sector are on 
the first line of defense. They pick things up as like the 
Chinese--recent Chinese hack with Microsoft.
    Can you speak to the importance of the Federal Government 
and private sector working together to improve cybersecurity, 
especially for small businesses that have fewer resources than 
the big ones? We can't have a situation where small businesses 
get pushed out, shoved away because you don't have the 
cybersecurity to protect things.
    And so, we are going to need a combined effort on this 
front. Your testimony notes telecom companies could be 
investing more in acquiring cybersecurity talent and expanding 
security teams. Could you talk about this?
    Mr. Lewis. Certainly. Thank you, Senator. One of the 
changes in the last decade or so has been the shift for 
spending on research and development, on creating new 
technology on innovation from the Government agencies to the 
private sector, to some of the big tech companies, to some of 
the startups.
    So the private sector is where the action is on this. And 
one way to take advantage of that for smaller companies and for 
smaller institutions is to think about where they can use what 
are called cloud services. Cloud services is basically you 
access the resource over the internet, but somebody else is 
responsible for managing it, for updating it, for making sure 
it is secure.
    So for a lot of things, I think moving to greater use of 
the cloud would be the answer, something the Federal Government 
has been sort of slow at doing. But I think the emphasis of the 
private sector in R&D, the use of private sector cloud 
providers, the benefits of the Federal acquisition regulations, 
emphasizing cybersecurity, that is a good way to partner with 
the private sector.
    Senator Klobuchar. Very good. Mr. Sherman, AI has great 
potential to improve our infrastructure, but as we all know, it 
also has new risks. And we have to make sure that our 
infrastructure is staying ahead of foreign adversaries. And 
that means we have to have our AI protections in place.
    I have worked on this extensively on the democracy front, 
but I have also worked on it extensively as the member of this 
committee, the Commerce Committee, with Senator Thune. Senator 
Thune and I have introduced legislation that passed through the 
Committee to set up guardrails for the riskiest non-defense 
applications of AI.
    Our bill would ensure AI systems used to manage our 
critical infrastructure undergo rigorous testing and scrutiny 
before it gets deployed in the real world. Mr. Sherman, do you 
agree that transparency in how we train commercially available 
models can lead to safer, more secure, and more reliable AI 
systems?
    And for instance, if a power grid wants to use AI to 
improve efficiency, under our bill, a vendor providing the AI 
system would have to comply with rigorous testing and 
evaluation before offering the product to, say, utility 
companies. Since that is clearly a high risk area. We have seen 
attempts before AI on our power grids. So please comment on 
this area. Thanks.
    Mr. Sherman. Yes, I think that is essential. And as you 
noted, there are several components to this, including every 
piece that goes into an AI application, right, the training 
data, testing data, the model weights, the cloud systems that 
are used to deploy it, right. It is essential to ensure all of 
that secure.
    And as you are getting at from a computer science 
perspective, a lot of these systems are still black boxes, 
right. We put in A, we get B out, and we can't tell you what 
happened in the middle.
    So as much transparency as possible is good for safety 
reasons. It is good for ethical reasons. It is also good for 
security reasons because, you know, if you are trying to fix 
it, right, you need to understand it first.
    Senator Klobuchar. Very good. All right. Well, thank you, 
everyone. And thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Senator Lujan. Senator Klobuchar, thank you very much. 
Senator Sullivan, you are recognized for questions.

                STATEMENT OF HON. DAN SULLIVAN, 
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM ALASKA

    Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I appreciate 
the witnesses' testimony today. It is a really important topic. 
And let me give you a little bit of my kind of thinking. And I 
know we have already talked about deterrence, but I really 
think we need to go into that a lot more. Mister, or Dr. 
Mulvenon I hopefully I am pronouncing that right. Was I close? 
OK.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Sullivan. I got A for--B plus for trying. You have 
a lot of really good background on China. So I am going to ask 
this question of you first, but then I will open up to really 
any of the witnesses, and it goes to this issue of deterrence. 
And let me just give you a little background without revealing 
any, you know, classified information.
    But like pretty much every Senator here, right before the 
elections, when we had a top secret briefing with the DNI and 
the NSA and everything--it was all about the election 
interference that our adversaries were undertaking, China, 
Russia, Iran primarily. So really trying to screw with our 
elections.
    Now, I would like to say the Chinese say, you think 
Taiwan's a core interest of yours? You are going after American 
democracy by coming in when your dictators would never have the 
guts to stand for election. Like this is a core interest of 
ours. There is nothing more important than American elections 
and democracies.
    And yet these countries feel very free to go after, try to 
disrupt our elections when they again, would never have the 
guts to do it. Then we got this Salt Typhoon briefing. 
Breathtaking, I would say. Not in a good way but shocking just 
how exposed we are and still are.
    Think that is not saying anything that is classified. But 
here is the thing, in all these briefings I was kind of like, 
you know, we have our NSA and everybody else doing all their 
good work and these are great Americans, but it is all about 
defense. Here is how we prevent the Chinese and Russians from 
going after election interference. We play defense. And then on 
the Salt Typhoon, it is pure defense.
    Here is what we are doing on defense. So a number of us, 
myself included, this is Democrats, Republicans, we are like, 
well, what about offense? What about offense? Like, what the 
hell, what about deterrence? So I have a bill I am getting 
ready to introduce with Senator Warren--you want to talk about 
how bipartisan that is. She's a liberal Democrat and I am not.
    But after the election interference briefing, our bill is 
essentially saying, hey, if you are an authoritarian regime and 
you are undertaking major efforts to undermine American 
elections, we are going to come at you. These--the U.S. 
Government, all of it, intel agencies, you name it, we are 
going to come, and we are going to present to your people not 
misinformation, but just information.
    I mean, let's face it, half the Chinese Communist Party 
leadership is corrupt as hell. Xi Jinping's sister is a 
billionaire. I wonder how that happened. Putin is the richest 
guy in the world. OK, when their people get to know that they 
are going to get very upset. Now, they can't know that now 
because of the Chinese firewall, the great Chinese firewall.
    You know, we have ways to get around that. We are 
confident. So what I want to ask you guys all about, especially 
you, Dr. M, why aren't we going on offense? And doesn't that 
help? And don't you think if we go quietly, covertly, overtly 
to the Chinese leadership and say, man, we have got so much--
not misinformation like you are doing in our elections.
    We got the real scoop on how all you guys are rich, you rip 
off your people, you steal from your government. Xi Jinping's 
sister is a billionaire. We are going to let everything--we are 
going to let 1.3 billion Chinese know that. And we are going to 
do the same thing to you, Putin. I think he is worth $90 
billion, all stolen.
    We probably even know where the Swiss bank accounts are 
where he steals his money. Let's let the Russian people know 
about that. I think that will be a deterrence. I think the 
Chinese and the Russians are so scared of their own people. But 
why are we doing that?
    And by the way, every U.S. Senator in these classified 
briefings is asking our top people, why aren't we doing that? 
Come on, we are a very powerful nation. We can go on offense 
here and bring some real deterrence.
    So I want to do that, but you are a Chinese expert. What do 
you think the Chinese will think if we are publishing how rich 
all the Communist Party leaders are and how much they have 
stolen from their people?
    Mr. Mulvenon. Senator, you and I are kindred spirits. If I 
had a nickel for every time in a U.S. Government meeting I 
raised this point and proposed a set of nefarious actions, we 
would be having this meeting on my private Caribbean island. 
And we would have those----
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Sullivan. They don't need to be----
    Mr. Mulvenon. We would cut the top of the pineapple off 
an----
    Senator Sullivan. I always say like it doesn't need to be 
misinfo--for the Chinese and Russian, they put stuff in our 
elections. It is all baloney. You should see the stuff that we 
are briefed on that they were doing about candidates, 
Democrats--how bad--it is all lies. We are not going to lie at 
all.
    We are just going to let them know, your leaders are 
ripping you off and here are the Swiss bank accounts, and we 
will let them know. And let the Chinese and Russian people know 
that. Maybe we will get regime change out of that. Who the hell 
knows, but it will--I think they will be scared to death. And 
we can do that, and we never do it. Why don't we do that?
    Mr. Mulvenon. Senator, there are two things you have raised 
that that I--you know, Amen from the chorus. One is the United 
States does have a pretty spotty record of trying to engage in 
deception and lying. Our open society, our free press militate 
against us telling lies abroad. The most powerful thing----
    Senator Sullivan. Again, I am not talking about----
    Mr. Mulvenon. No, no, I understand. The most powerful thing 
I have ever seen in our information operations is when we 
simply tell the truth.
    Senator Sullivan. Yes.
    Mr. Mulvenon. And the power of that. And I would only 
highlight this data point. The two pieces of information that 
caused the Chinese Politburo Standing Committee to leap higher 
and be angrier and exact more revenge than any other were the 
articles by David Barboza and Mike Forsyth in Bloomberg and the 
New York Times about the personal billions of Politburo 
Standing Committee members and their families. Nothing has 
caused a reaction within Zhongnanhai like the publishing of 
those two articles.
    Senator Sullivan. And why is that?
    Mr. Mulvenon. That is because they are absolutely concerned 
about the visible hypocrisy of carrying out an anti-corruption 
campaign and claiming that the party is the source of all truth 
and wisdom and that there is a purity to the party when in fact 
their own relatives are enriching themselves using their 
personal connections.
    Senator Sullivan. Yes. So why don't we go to them overtly 
or covertly and say, look, you are messing with our elections.
    Mr. Mulvenon. Yes.
    Senator Sullivan. Our elections, right. Again, you think 
Taiwan is a core interest? You are messing with American 
elections. You keep doing this, we are going to let every one 
of your 1.3 billion citizens know how corrupt and rich all of 
you are.
    Mr. Mulvenon. Yes.
    Senator Sullivan. Why don't we do that? And what do you 
think they would do if we did that?
    Mr. Mulvenon. It would cause a tremendous amount of 
instability within the leadership, which frankly is not as a 
predicate to regime change.
    Even as a predicate to the Chinese people making different 
choices about who they want to rule them and the system in 
which that ruling is happening, this is the most powerful 
informational weapon we have, is to simply hold up a mirror and 
say this is exactly what we know is going on in your system.
    And oh, by the way, almost all of that information is 
knowable through open sources and does not run into some sort 
of intelligence equities, issue related to sources and methods.
    Senator Sullivan. And you think it would have--start to 
have a deterrent effect? Maybe next time they think about 
messing with our elections, you think they would think twice 
like, I am not sure I want every Chinese person to know how 
rich Xi Jinping's family is.
    Mr. Mulvenon. I have long argued that this is one of the 
most interesting and potentially effective wedge things we 
could do, yes.
    Senator Sullivan. Good. OK. Anyone else have a view in 
terms of letting--like I will give you another example. You saw 
Navalny, who Putin ended up killing. They put that video out on 
Putin's, you know, rich mansions on the Black Sea, I think, or 
the Baltic. And, you know, had like a hundred million views and 
got Putin's attention. He's very nervous about that.
    Mr. Lewis. So in 2016, I was advising parts of the Federal 
Government on how to respond to Russian election interference. 
And at the time, they said, here is a menu of things we are 
going to do.
    Number one on the list was we would like Vladimir Putin's 
Botox injections schedule. And I said, this is the best we can 
do? We are gun shy, so it needs support from the Senate and 
from others to make us be less gun shy. The leaking the money, 
you don't have to do covert ops. You don't have to do anything. 
Just tell. That has been wildly effective. But we have to be a 
little less gun shy.
    Senator Sullivan. Anyone else have a view on this? 
Deterrence, deterrence. We are a big country. We can go to 
people and say, hey, you want to keep doing this, we are going 
to bring you a lot of pain.
    Mr. Sherman. Yes. And being much more of a Russia 
specialist. Of course, you mentioned, you know, Putin. Fair 
amount of corruption there, right. Funny how, you know, amateur 
judo wrestlers become billionaires when they happen to tussle 
with----
    Senator Sullivan. One of the richest guys in the world.
    Mr. Sherman.--when they are teenagers. But I think, as you 
are saying and others have mentioned, that's an example where 
we can also take action to interrupt operations, right. And 
folks mentioned, OK, we have this nine to five, you know, troll 
farm where people come in and clock in and clock out and post 
lies, as you said about Americans and members of both parties.
    OK, there has been all this reporting, right, about, you 
know, the U.S. We went in and we shut down some of those farms 
and we knocked some of those servers offline. And did that stop 
them from getting back up? Definitely not. But like you said--
--
    Senator Sullivan. I mean, I think that is good, but it is 
all defense. I mean, that is all defense, you knock out the 
troll farms.
    Mr. Donovan. Yes. Right, defensive but more of that 
proactive action of saying, OK, if you are going to set up this 
infrastructure in this building to run these campaigns, can we 
actually get in there and shut that down?
    Senator Sullivan. Yes. Anyone else--any other thoughts?
    Mr. Lewis. Senator, it is also internationally around the 
world, efforts are already underway on shutting down the 
influence and power of Huawei and ZTE. But that is why it is 
also so important that we finish the job here in our backyard, 
that we have that credibility on the world stage.
    Senator Sullivan. 100 percent. I agree with that. Well, Mr. 
Chairman, thank you. I do think there is a lot of bipartisan 
agreement in the Senate that we need to be a little bit more 
offensive-minded and that we up to deterrence levels with these 
authoritarian regimes who are scared to death of their own 
people.
    And if we just let their people know, boy, look at how your 
leading Politburo Chinese members who talk about corruption, 
they are all as rich as can be. I wonder how they got that? 
They stole it from their people. Let's let the Chinese know 
that and then tell them, quit messing with us or we will keep 
doing this, and your people will be rioting in the streets 
before you know it. Thank you.
    Senator Lujan. Thank you, Senator Sullivan. Mr. Sherman, we 
didn't get a chance to talk about Team Telecom, and I wanted to 
ask you a question about existing structures that the Federal 
Government established to help ensure companies make 
investments to keep their network safe.
    We heard from Dr. Lewis about the list that everyone knows 
that people should be doing, but others are not. You 
recommended in your testimony that Congress consider 
statutorily authorizing Team Telecom, which is currently 
operating on the authority of Executive Order 13913, which 
President Trump signed in 2020. Can you talk to us a little bit 
about that and explain about Team Telecom here?
    Mr. Sherman. Certainly, Senator. So in the mid 90s, right, 
the FCC said, OK, we have a complex national security threat 
environment. Obviously, telecoms are a core target. We need to 
have a group of experts and other agencies talking to the 
Commission about what those threats are.
    So informally, for years it was known as Team Telecom. This 
is NTIA. This is the Defense Department. This is DOJ advising 
the FCC on critical national security issues, including to 
subsea cables. So for years, this operated informally, 
bipartisan supported. It was renewed every Administration. And 
in 2020, as you noted, President Trump formally made it an 
interagency committee.
    President Biden has kept that in place. So also say it 
plays a central role, and I am happy to talk more about that, 
in identifying equipment that needs to be taken out of networks 
from China. In looking at subsea cable plans to connect the 
U.S. to China and elsewhere. But I think the core analogy is 
that we have other areas where we have these national security 
programs, right.
    We have CFIUS, the Committee on Foreign Investment in the 
U.S. Same thing. It was Executive Order, Executive authority. 
Once Congress put that into law, that was meaningful for 
authorities, for budget, for transparency. Still getting there 
with CFIUS, but that was a core moment in cementing that in the 
Government.
    So I think statutorily authorizing Team Telecom would 
enable that oversight, would enable those proper authorities.
    Senator Lujan. I appreciate that. And Mr. Sherman, one 
thing that I think it is important to note for those that are 
not as familiar with the acronym soup that we often speak with 
when it comes to telecom policy, that Team Telecom, they get to 
work when it touches a foreign entity as opposed to domestic.
    And it is my understanding that outside of the FCC or 
others with these authorities, there is not a domestic facing 
group that gets kicked into gear like Team Telecom, which is 
all these Federal agencies, including the Department of 
Justice, to get to work. Is that correct?
    Mr. Sherman. Well, right. So one, as you rightly noted, 
Team Telecom is restricted to three main areas, right, 
including things like is this a foreign carrier or is this a 
subsea cable that would connect to, as some companies tried to 
do a few years ago that got blocked, to Hong Kong.
    But the second piece, as you said, I am not--others maybe 
can speak to this. I am not familiar with a similar committee 
interagency set up to kind of look at security risk to the 
domestic infrastructure, but part of that is just a function of 
Team Telecom, right.
    The focus is and in some ways should remain on China, on 
Russia, on Iran, North Korea, and not--you know, they don't go 
into domestic companies that don't have that international 
touch point.
    Senator Lujan. Appreciate that. And you know, one thing, 
Dr. Mulvenon, that I appreciate is that clarification that both 
tools are needed. I certainly agree with that as well. And I 
appreciate that it feels like every one of the experts today 
expressed that in one form or another.
    So I just want to recognize and thank you all. I also agree 
with the lack of direction that could have been included from 
the FCC, which was published after there was a briefing to 
Members of Congress. It should have come before. And I think 
there is so much more that could be done in partnership with 
these entities.
    And as we work in a bipartisan way, which I believe we 
will, there is a lot of interest in this space, given that 
President Trump is the person that signed that Executive Order 
associating with Team Telecom and looking at what tools could 
be strengthened in America. Contracting, simple agreements.
    If you want to do business with the U.S. Government, these 
are the kind of safety tools that you need to be including to 
limit, to reduce the threats that exist. I have been concerned 
about the lack of trusted foundries that the United States now 
holds. This is a vulnerability that we have, not in the 
jurisdiction necessarily of this committee, but we should be 
having this conversation robustly across tools.
    You know, when families have to worry about the baby 
monitor that they purchased to keep an eye on a loved one or 
who might be jumping into that to only do ill will, the threats 
that exist to the most vulnerable amongst us. It is not always 
someone that is barreling down the door of your home anymore 
that is going to take all of your financial holdings.
    It is someone that sneaks in through a text, or through an 
e-mail, or through some other way that gets access to 
everything and then, poof, it is gone. I say all of that 
because I don't believe that this burden that we have been 
talking about today with this hack should fall on the backs of 
the American people.
    The education that is being put forward to the American 
people as to what they could be doing to keep themselves a 
little safer, it is acronym soup. You know, we started telling 
them to do this or do that or use this tool or that tool. Well, 
if most people knew how to do it, I think they would be. I 
often describe it--it is the same thing as what we had to 
remind all of ourselves during COVID to wash our hands.
    Simple hygiene during COVID to keep ourselves healthy and 
strong. Simple hygiene when it comes to using the Internet, all 
of these tools. Not clicking on things we don't know about, all 
the rest. But, you know, encryption, you go out and talk to 
folks on the street about encryption and two factor 
authentication and ask them who is doing it and what is going 
on. Where do get some responses? There is also going to be a 
lot of folks that want to know how to use these things.
    So I hope that in the way that Senator Kennedy of Louisiana 
often reminds us, we need to speak to each other in a way that 
we can understand. And we can pretend to understand what all 
these acronyms are. A lot of folks don't, including those that 
are experts in these fields.
    I still remember when I became a public utility 
commissioner, the book that was given to me on telecom 
acronyms. It was heavy and the print was very small. My eyes 
worked back then, and I still needed reading glasses to be able 
to get through that dictionary, if you will. So I hope that we 
can work together in these spaces to be able to get this work 
done. I think this was an excellent conversation.
    I appreciate what was shared by all of our colleagues 
today. Maybe my final question to the final--to the panel as I 
close this hearing is yes or no, is there more that needs to be 
done to protect our networks? Dr. Lewis.
    Mr. Lewis. That is not a fair question because it is so 
obviously yes.
    Senator Lujan. Appreciate that, sir.
    Mr. Sherman. He can answer for the group. Yes.
    Mr. Donovan. Yes. And since you went on the acronyms, make 
it so that all companies of all sizes can understand it. We 
need--that the paint by numbers approach for what we have to do 
to operate this. Don't just assume general guidance is going to 
be good enough. But yes.
    Senator Lujan. Mr. Donovan, I want to repeat what you just 
said. Make it so that the companies doing the work can 
understand it. I am talking about people on the street, my mom, 
my neighbors, nephews and nieces.
    So let's talk about the importance of putting this together 
in a way that we can understand it and that those that are 
responsible can implement it. I appreciate that very much. I 
would just like to put that exclamation point on that. Dr. 
Mulvenon.
    Mr. Mulvenon. Yes. And Volt, Flax, and Salt Typhoon are 
just the latest harbinger of the consequences of not doing what 
you are saying.
    Senator Lujan. What an important reminder. I appreciate 
that as well. Now, in my closing remarks, as we wrap up today, 
I just want to enter a few items into the record.
    The report published by the FBI, CISA, and other Federal 
partners titled, ``Enhanced Visibility and Hardening Guidance 
for Communication Infrastructure, Laying Out Best Practices to 
Defend Our Communication Systems.''
    And a blog post from T-Mobile providing an update to their 
customers in light of the Salt Typhoon attacks. Without 
objection.
    [The information referred to follows:]

     Enhanced Visibility and Hardening Guidance for Communications 
                             Infrastructure

                    Publish Date: December 04, 2024

 Related topics: Cybersecurity Best Practices, Critical Infrastructure 
         Security and Resilience, Cyber Threats and Advisories

Introduction
    The Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA), 
National Security Agency (NSA), Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), 
Australian Signals Directorate's (ASD's) Australian Cyber Security 
Centre (ACSC), Canadian Cyber Security Centre (CCCS), and New Zealand's 
National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC-NZ) warn that People's Republic of 
China (PRC)-affiliated threat actors compromised networks of major 
global telecommunications providers to conduct a broad and significant 
cyber espionage campaign. The authoring agencies are releasing this 
guide to highlight this threat and provide network engineers and 
defenders of communications infrastructure with best practices to 
strengthen their visibility and harden their network devices against 
successful exploitation carried out by PRC-affiliated and other 
malicious cyber actors. Although tailored to network defenders and 
engineers of communications infrastructure, this guide may also apply 
to organizations with on-premises enterprise equipment. The authoring 
agencies encourage telecommunications and other critical infrastructure 
organizations to apply the best practices in this guide.
    As of this release date, identified exploitations or compromises 
associated with these threat actors' activity align with existing 
weaknesses associated with victim infrastructure; no novel activity has 
been observed. Patching vulnerable devices and services, as well as 
generally securing environments, will reduce opportunities for 
intrusion and mitigate the actors' activity.
Strengthening Visibility
    In the context of this guide, visibility refers to organizations' 
abilities to monitor, detect, and understand activity within their 
networks. High visibility means having detailed insight into network 
traffic, user activity, and data flow, allowing network defenders to 
quickly identify threats, anomalous behavior, and vulnerabilities. 
Visibility is critical for network engineers and defenders, 
particularly when identifying and responding to incidents.
Monitoring
Network Engineers
   Closely scrutinize and investigate any configuration 
        modifications or alterations to network devices such as 
        switches, routers, and firewalls outside of the change 
        management process. Implement comprehensive alerting mechanisms 
        to detect unauthorized changes to the network, including 
        unusual route updates, enabled weak protocols, and 
        configuration changes (i.e., changes to users and Access 
        Control Lists [ACLs]).

     Store configurations centrally and push to devices. Do 
            not allow devices to be the trusted source of truth for 
            their configuration. Monitor configuration and, if 
            feasible, test and override on a frequent basis.

   Implement a strong network flow monitoring solution. This 
        solution should allow for network flow data exporters and the 
        associated collectors to be strategically centered around key 
        ingress and egress locations that provide visibility into 
        inter-customer traffic.

   If feasible, limit exposure of management traffic to the 
        Internet. Only allow management via a limited and enforced 
        network path, ideally only directly from dedicated 
        administrative workstations.

   Monitor user and service account logins for anomalies that 
        could indicate potential malicious activity. Validate all 
        accounts and disable inactive accounts to reduce the attack 
        surface. Monitor logins occurring internally and externally 
        from the management environment.

   Implement secure, centralized logging with the ability to 
        analyze and correlate large amounts of data from different 
        sources. Encrypt any logging traffic destined for a remote 
        destination via IPsec, TLS, or any other available encrypted 
        transport options. Additionally, store copies of logs off-site 
        to ensure they cannot be modified or deleted. Enable logging 
        and auditing on devices and ensure logs can be offloaded from 
        the device.

     If possible, implement a Security Information and 
            Event Management (SIEM) tool to analyze and correlate logs 
            and alerts from the routers for rapid identification of 
            security incidents.

     Ensure logging takes place at all levels of the 
            environment, network operating system, application, and 
            software levels, as it pertains to network devices.

     Establish a baseline of normal network behavior and 
            define rules on security appliances to alert on abnormal 
            behavior.

   Ensure the inventory of devices and firmware in the 
        environment are up to date to enable effective visibility and 
        monitoring.
Network Defenders
   Implement a monitoring and network management capability 
        that, at a minimum, enforces configuration management, 
        automates routine administrative functions, and alerts on 
        changes detected within the environment, such as connections 
        and user and account activity.

     Establish understanding of the architecture of 
            infrastructure and production enclaves, as well as where 
            the two environments meet or are segregated. Map and 
            understand boundary and ingress/egress points of the 
            network management enclave.

     Understand which assets should be forward facing and 
            remove those that should not be forward facing. Closely 
            monitor all devices that accept external connections from 
            outside the corporate network and investigate any 
            configurations that do not comply with known good 
            configurations, such as open ports, services, or unexpected 
            Generic Routing Encapsulation (GRE) or IPsec tunnel usage. 
            Threat actors have been observed taking advantage of 
            external-facing vulnerable services and features; 
            therefore, proper visibility of network and security 
            operations is vital.

     If appropriate, implement a packet capture capability 
            as part of the broader visibility effort for the 
            enterprise. Determine capture location(s) and retention 
            policies based on organizational demands.
Hardening Systems and Devices
    Hardening device and network architecture is a defense-in-depth 
strategy. Reducing vulnerabilities, improving secure configuration 
habits, and following best practices limit potential entry points for 
PRC-affiliated and other cyber threats.
Protocols and Management Processes
Network Engineers
   Use an out-of-band management network that is physically 
        separate from the operational data flow network. Ensure that 
        management of network infrastructure devices can only come from 
        the out-of-band management network. In addition, confirm that 
        the out-of-band management network does not allow lateral 
        management connections between devices to prevent lateral 
        movement in the case that one device becomes compromised. 
        Ensure device management is physically isolated from the 
        customer and production networks. When properly implemented, 
        out-of-band management can mitigate many threat actor tactics, 
        techniques, and procedures (TTPs).

   Implement a strict, default-deny ACL strategy to control 
        inbound and egressing traffic. Ensure all denied traffic is 
        logged. For maximum depth, implement on separate devices from 
        those implementing other security controls.

   Employ strong network segmentation via the use of router 
        ACLs, stateful packet inspection, firewall capabilities, and 
        demilitarized zone (DMZ) constructs. Separation via virtual 
        local area networks (VLANs) and, if possible, private VLANs 
        (PVLAN) will provide additional granular logical separation. 
        This should be done as part of a broader defense-in-depth 
        approach that protects and isolates different device groups.

     Place externally facing services, such as Domain Name 
            System (DNS), web servers, and mail servers, in a DMZ to 
            provide segmentation from the internal LAN and backend 
            resources.

     Additionally, as a general strategy, put devices with 
            similar purposes in the same VLAN. For example, place all 
            user workstations from a certain team in one VLAN, while 
            putting another team with different functions in a separate 
            VLAN.

     Do not manage devices from the internet. Only allow 
            device management from trusted devices on trusted networks. 
            Use dedicated administrative workstations (DAWs) connected 
            to dedicated management zones.

   Harden and secure virtual private network (VPN) gateways by 
        limiting external exposure, if possible, and limiting the port 
        exposure to what is minimally required (for example udp/500, 
        udp/4500 and protocol type 50 (ESP)). Ensure all VPNs are 
        configured to only use strong cryptography for key exchange, 
        authentication, and encryption. [1]

     Disable unused VPN features and cryptographic 
            algorithms to prevent exploitable weaknesses.

   Ensure that traffic is end-to-end encrypted to the maximum 
        extent possible.

   As a management policy, control access to device Virtual 
        Teletype (VTY) lines with an ACL to restrict inbound lateral 
        movement connections.

     Additionally, disable outbound connections to mitigate 
            against lateral movement. Monitor for changes as 
            adversaries can modify this configuration on compromised 
            devices to allow outbound connections.

   Ensure all authentication, authorization, and accounting 
        (AAA) logging is securely sent to a centralized logging server 
        with modern confidentiality, integrity, and authentication 
        (CIA) protections.

   If using Simple Network Management Protocol (SNMP), ensure 
        only SNMP v3 with encryption and authentication is used, along 
        with ACL protections against unnecessary public exposure. 
        Ensure configuration with the most secure cryptographic options 
        supported by the hardware.

   Disable all unnecessary discovery protocols, such as Cisco 
        Discovery Protocol (CDP) or Link Layer Discovery Protocol 
        (LLDP). If they are required, only enable on the necessary 
        interfaces.

   Ensure Transport Layer Security (TLS) v1.3 is used on any 
        TLS-capable protocols to secure data in transit over a network. 
        [2] Ensure TLS is configured to only use strong cryptographic 
        cipher suites. [3]

     Use Public Key Infrastructure (PKI)-based certificates 
            instead of self-signed certificates.

     Implement a robust process to renew certificates 
            before they expire.

   Disable Internet Protocol (IP) source routing.

   Disable Secure Shell (SSH) version 1. Ensure only SSH 
        version 2.0 is used with the following cryptographic 
        considerations [2]. For more information on acceptable 
        algorithms, see NSA's Network Infrastructure Security Guide.

     Configure with minimally a 3072-bit RSA key.

     Configure with minimally a 4096 Diffie-Hellman key 
            size (group 16).

   When possible, apply secure authentication to protocols and 
        services which allow it, such as Network Time Protocol (NTP), 
        Terminal Access Controller Access-Control System (TACACS+), 
        Open Shortest Path First (OSPF), Border Gateway Protocol (BGP), 
        and Hot Standby Router Protocol (HSRP). Similarly, disable any 
        unauthenticated management protocols or functions, such as 
        Cisco Smart Install.

   Use secure cryptographic building blocks when building VPNs 
        such as [3]:

     Key Exchange:

                   Diffie-Hellman Group 15 with 3072-bit 
                Modular Exponential (MODP)

                   Diffie-Hellman Group 16 with 4096-bit 
                Modular Exponential (MODP)

                   Diffie-Hellman Group 20 with 384-bit 
                Elliptic Curve Group (ECP)

     Encryption: AES-256

     Hashing: SHA-384 or SHA-512

   Ensure that no default passwords are used.

     Change all default passwords on first use.

     Ensure no passwords are reset back to the default.

   Confirm the integrity of the software image in use by using 
        a trusted hashing calculation utility, if available.

     If a utility is unavailable, calculate a hash of the 
            software image on a trusted administration workstation and 
            compare against the vendor's published hashes on an 
            authenticated site as a trusted source of truth. This may 
            require engaging the device's maintenance contract to 
            access source of truth hash values. For additional 
            security, copy the image to a forensic workstation and 
            calculate the hash value to compare against the vendor's 
            published hashes.
Network Defenders
   Disable any unnecessary, unused, exploitable, or plaintext 
        services and protocols, such as Telnet, File Transfer Protocol 
        (FTP), Trivial FTP (TFTP), SSH v1, Hypertext Transfer Protocol 
        (HTTP) servers, and SNMP v1/v2c. Ensure any required internet-
        exposed services are adequately protected by ACLs and are fully 
        patched.

   Conduct port-scanning and scanning of known internet-facing 
        infrastructure to ensure no additional services are accessible 
        across the network or from the internet. Remove unnecessary 
        internet-facing infrastructure, monitor necessary internet-
        facing infrastructure, and continuously validate the 
        architecture.

     Routers with an active shell environment--even if they 
            have not been tampered with--have significantly more 
            listeners running at the operating system (OS) level 
            compared to the software level.

    Network defenders and network engineers should ensure close 
collaboration and open communication to accomplish the following:

   Ensure all networking configurations are stored, tracked, 
        and regularly audited for compliance with security policies and 
        best practices.

     Whenever networking configurations are transmitted for 
            storage, tracking, and troubleshooting, confirm that they 
            are sent using encrypted protocols. Additionally, be sure 
            they are not attached to plaintext e-mails or sent via FTP 
            or TFTP.

   Monitor for vendor end-of-life (EOL) announcements for 
        hardware devices, operating system versions, and software, and 
        upgrade as soon as possible.

   Implement a change management system that anticipates both 
        routine and emergency patching. Continuously monitor for vendor 
        vulnerability and patch announcements and ensure patches are 
        applied in a timely manner. Ensure use of vendor recommended 
        version of the operating system for the features and 
        capabilities required.

     Test and validate patches as part of the change and 
            patch management processes.

   As part of a broader password policy, store passwords with 
        secure hashing algorithms. Passwords should meet complexity 
        requirements and should be stored using one-way hashing 
        algorithms or, if available, unique keys. Follow National 
        Institute of Standards and Technologies guidelines when 
        creating password policies.

   Require phishing-resistant multi-factor authentication (MFA) 
        for all accounts that access company systems, networks, and 
        applications, including sensitive administrative access to 
        routers. MFA should use a combination of credentials and a 
        phishing-resistant secondary verification method, such as 
        hardware-based PKI or FIDO authentication, to ensure secure 
        access and prevent unauthorized entry.

   As part of a broader identity and access management policy, 
        use local accounts only for emergencies and change the 
        passwords after each use. Verify that each use was authorized 
        and expected. For everyday management of network 
        infrastructure, use a centralized AAA server that supports 
        multi-factor authentication requirements; however, ensure the 
        AAA server is not linked to the primary corporate identity 
        store.

   Limit session token durations and require users to 
        reauthenticate when the session expires. Conduct audits to 
        determine the standard session duration for each role to 
        implement session expirations.

   Implement a Role-Based Access Control (RBAC) strategy that 
        assigns users to a specific role with defined and inherited 
        permissions to better control and manage what users can do.

   Remove any unnecessary accounts and periodically review 
        accounts to verify that they continue to be needed. Apply the 
        principle of least privilege to make sure accounts only have 
        the minimum permissions necessary to complete their tasks. 
        Additionally, continuously monitor accounts in use.
Cisco-Specific Guidance
    Organizations in the communications sector should be aware that the 
authoring agencies have observed Cisco-specific features often being 
targeted by, and associated with, these PRC cyber threat actors' 
activity. To address the risk of exploitation by these specific threat 
actors, the authoring agencies urge organizations to apply the 
following hardening best practices to all Cisco operating systems. For 
additional information, see Cisco's IOS XE Hardening Guide and Guide to 
Securing NX-OS Software Devices.

   Disable Cisco's Smart Install service using no vstack.

   If not required, disable the guestshell access using 
        guestshell disable for those versions which support the 
        guestshell service.

   Disable all non-encrypted web management capabilities. If 
        web management is required, configure servers in compliance 
        with vendor recommended security settings and software images.

     Always disable the underlying non-encrypted web server 
            using no ip http server. If web management is not required, 
            disable all of the underlying web servers using no ip http 
            server and no ip http secure-server.

   Disable telnet and ensure it is not available on any of the 
        VTY lines by configuring all VTY stanzas with transport input 
        ssh and transport output none.

   To securely store passwords on Cisco devices, organizations 
        should:

     Use Type-8 passwords when possible.

     Avoid use of deprecated hashing or password types when 
            storing passwords, such as Type-5 or Type-7.

     If supported, secure the TACACS+ key as a Type-6 
            encrypted password.
Incident Reporting
   U.S. organizations: If suspicious activity is identified, 
        contact your local FBI field office or the FBI's Internet Crime 
        Complaint Center (IC3). Cyber incidents can also be reported to 
        CISA by calling 1-844-Say-CISA (1-844-729-2472), e-mailing 
        [email protected], or reporting online at cisa.gov/report. 
        For NSA client requirements or general cybersecurity inquiries, 
        contact [email protected].

   Australian organizations: Visit cyber.gov.au or call 1300 
        292 371 (1300 CYBER 1) to report cybersecurity incidents and 
        access alerts and advisories.

   Canadian organizations: Report incidents by e-mailing CCCS 
        at contact
        @cyber.gc.ca.

   New Zealand organizations: Report cyber security incidents 
        to incidents
        @ncsc.govt.nz or call 04 498 7654.
Secure by Design
    The authoring agencies urge software manufacturers to incorporate 
secure by design principles into their software development lifecycle 
to strengthen the security posture of their customers. Software 
manufacturers should prioritize secure by design configurations to 
eliminate the need for customer implementation of hardening guidelines. 
Additionally, customers should demand that the software they purchase 
is secure by design. For more information on secure by design, see 
CISA's Secure by Design webpage. Customers should refer to CISA's 
Secure by Demand guidance for additional product security 
considerations.
Resources
   CISA: Cross-Sector Cybersecurity Performance Goals

   Joint Guide: Best Practices for Event Logging and Threat 
        Detection

   NSA: Network Infrastructure Security Guide

   NSA, CISA, and FBI: People's Republic of China State-
        Sponsored Cyber Actors Exploit Network Providers and Devices

   NSA: Hardening Network Devices

   NSA: Performing Out-of-Band Network Management

   NSA: Cisco Password Types: Best Practices

   NSA: Cisco Smart Install Protocol Misuse

   CCCS: Cryptographic Algorithms for UNCLASSIFIED, PROTECED A, 
        and PROTECTED B Information--ITSP.40.111

   NIST: Special Publication 800-52: Guidelines for the 
        Selection, Configuration, and Use of Transport Layer Security 
        (TLS) Implementations

   NIST: Special Publication 800-77: Guide to IPsec VPNs
References
  1.  CCCS: Guidance on Securely Configuring Network Protocols
  2.  NSA: Network Infrastructure Security Guide
  3.  CNSS: Committee on National Security Systems Policy (CNSSP)-15
Disclaimer
    The authoring agencies do not endorse any commercial entity, 
product, company, or service, including any entities, products, or 
services linked within this document. Any reference to specific 
commercial entities, products, processes, or services by service mark, 
trademark, manufacturer, or otherwise, does not constitute or imply 
endorsement, recommendation, or favoring by the authoring agencies. 
Additionally, the information in this document is provided ``as-is'' 
and without warranties or representations of any kind. The users of 
this information shall have no recourse against the authoring parties 
for any loss, liability, damage or cost that may be suffered or 
incurred at any time arising from the use of information in this 
document, including but not limited to loss of data or interruption of 
business.
Acknowledgements
    Cisco and Google Cloud Security contributed to this guidance.
Version History
    December 3, 2024: Initial version.
                                 ______
                                 

 An Update on Recent Cyberattacks Targeting the U.S. Wireless Companies

        By Jeff Simon, Chief Security Officer, November 27, 2024

    Like the entire telecommunications industry, T-Mobile has been 
closely monitoring ongoing reports about a series of highly coordinated 
cyberattacks by bad actors known as ``Salt Typhoon'' that are reported 
to be linked to Chinese state-sponsored operations. Many reports claim 
these bad actors have gained access to some providers' customer 
information over an extended period of time--phone calls, text 
messages, and other sensitive information, particularly from government 
officials. This is not the case at T-Mobile. To clear up some 
misleading media reports, here is what we're currently seeing, much of 
which we believe is different from what is being seen by other 
providers.

   Within the last few weeks, we detected attempts to 
        infiltrate our systems by bad actors. This originated from a 
        wireline provider's network that was connected to ours.

   We see no instances of prior attempts like this.

   Our defenses protected our sensitive customer information, 
        prevented any disruption of our services, and stopped the 
        attack from advancing. Bad actors had no access to sensitive 
        customer data (including calls, voice-mails or texts).

   We quickly severed connectivity to the provider's network as 
        we believe it was--and may still be--compromised.

   We do not see these or other attackers in our systems at 
        this time.

   We cannot definitively identify the attacker's identity, 
        whether Salt Typhoon or another similar group, but we have 
        reported our findings to the government for assessment.

    Simply put, our defenses worked as designed--from our layered 
network design to robust monitoring and partnerships with third-party 
cyber security experts and a prompt response--to prevent the attackers 
from advancing and, importantly, stopped them from accessing sensitive 
customer information. Other providers may be seeing different outcomes.
    We have shared what we've learned with industry and government 
leaders as we collectively work to combat these large-scale, 
sophisticated national threats. Last week, I had the opportunity to 
join a meeting at the White House with other leaders to discuss how 
we're mitigating these threats. As we all have a mutual goal to protect 
American consumers, we felt it was important to communicate more about 
what we've seen with providers who may still be fighting these 
adversaries.
Prevention of Cyber Attacks
    No system is immune to cybersecurity attacks. Technology companies 
and wireless providers like ours experience hundreds and sometimes 
thousands of attempted attacks of various degrees every day, so my team 
and I must stay vigilant. We work each day to stay ahead of what's to 
come, constantly adjusting our approach as bad actors adjust theirs.
    Following some incidents we experienced a few years back, we set 
out to undertake a cybersecurity major transformation, making a massive 
investment in our program and focusing on enhancing four key areas:

   Layered defenses that more effectively deter attacks, 
        essentially a series of gates that are increasingly difficult 
        to pass

   Proactive and more robust monitoring to detect unusual 
        activity

   Rapid response capabilities to quickly shut down activity 
        and mitigate impact

   Constant vigilance to stay ahead of evolving threats, 
        promptly detect suspicious activity, and rapidly respond

    As we know that attackers will not stop and neither will we, so 
we've gone even further, investing in new enhancements and bolstering 
measures we already had in place such as:

   MFA or multi-factor authentication for our entire workforce; 
        requiring FIDO2 (external devices that enable passwordless 
        logins) where possible. MFA requires users to provide multiple 
        forms of verification to access an account, helping prevent 
        unauthorized access through phishing.

   Separation of our systems and networks to hinder a bad 
        actor's ability to move beyond the initial system that they may 
        have compromised.

   Comprehensive logging and monitoring to rapidly alarm on and 
        track unauthorized activity.

   Accelerated patching and hardening of systems to address any 
        security vulnerabilities.

   More security tools to ensure laptops, servers, and network 
        devices are connecting to approved trusted sources

   Constant testing of our systems and advanced attacker 
        simulations to identify security weaknesses, and offering 
        rewards for finding potential security vulnerabilities in our 
        systems

    Also, it's important to mention that T-Mobile's modern and advanced 
telecommunications infrastructure provides additional security 
advantages. Our wireless network built on standalone 5G technology 
offers advanced device authentication, enhanced encryption, and 
improved privacy protections. It tends to be newer and has more 
security capabilities versus older 4G systems. (You can check out more 
on the benefits of 5G standalone technology here.) Additionally, T-
Mobile has minimal operations in wireline networks (e.g., cable, 
copper, or bulk fiber) and provides service almost exclusively within 
the U.S. This simplifies the management and security of our systems. 
Our consumer fiber offerings are also separate isolated networks from 
our wireless network infrastructure.
    These are just a few examples of what we're building and supporting 
but our work is never done. Cybersecurity is a journey not a 
destination.
Our Commitment
    As an industry and country, we are now seeing activity from the 
most sophisticated cyber criminals we've ever faced, and as such, we 
can't make any promises with absolute certainty. But I can tell you 
that our commitment to our customers is clear: T-Mobile will work 
tirelessly to keep customer information secure, safeguarding our 
network, responding swiftly to threats, and investing in security. We 
are humbled by the trust our customers place in us, and we do not take 
this responsibility lightly.

    Senator Lujan. Now, it is clear that when we talk about 
these threat actors infiltrating our networks and accessing 
sensitive data through our national security, we are not 
talking about something that is theoretical. It is happening. 
This is before us. We are talking about the current state of 
affairs across all of these networks.
    And it is also clear that there are things we can do today 
to make our systems safer. Rip and Replace, I am optimistic 
that there is now support and language in the House version of 
the National Defense Authorization Act.
    We need to keep that in place. The telecommunication 
companies that were affected by Salt Typhoon must do full 
accounting of their network security practices to ensure they 
are taking every single box that the FBI, CISA, and others, as 
Dr. Lewis shared with us today--I mean, every one of you 
pointed out what we could be doing better.
    Get that done before you come back and talk to us. I know 
they are listening today. We have someone taking notes from 
this hearing. Get that done because at least this member is 
going to ask you if you have done it.
    And we might do it in a hearing. We might do it in private. 
We will probably do it in both. It is vital that companies are 
making the investments necessary to provide the support against 
these latest attacks. Last, Federal authorities must do more to 
keep our networks safe.
    Going forward, I look forward to working with my colleagues 
in this room and everyone that has expertise in this space that 
cares about keeping the American people safe. Last, as my last 
hearing in this Congress, as the Chair of this subcommittee, I 
just want to say thank you to all of the staff that provided 
support, all the journalists, some that are still here covering 
this today, that are sharing this information with the American 
people.
    It makes a big difference when we are talking about 
something so complex, but that is part of our daily lives. 
Together, we passed the single largest investment in broadband 
infrastructure in our Nation's history and stood up a 
successful broadband affordability program.
    I am pleased to see that there's support for Rip and 
Replace. We still have work to do when it comes to the 
Affordable Connectivity Program. 90 million people across 
America not being able to afford the internet, when they have a 
hard connection, is a problem. The promise of AI being able to 
provide a tutor to every young person in America that needs one 
is only as good if they can get that connectivity.
    We have got to get this one done. To Ranking Member Thune, 
I also wanted to thank him and his team for being such a strong 
partner. His availability and willingness to work together to 
be able to work in a bipartisan fashion is something so very 
much appreciated.
    I congratulate him with his new leadership responsibilities 
and look forward to working with him in that space as well. And 
then last, the Universal Service Fund. What a strong working 
group, bicameral, bipartisan.
    Came up with strong reforms and ideas. I certainly hope 
that that work is something that we will see more in the 
future, that product that actually gets to the President for 
signature because this is desperately needed.
    A program that whose contribution factor from people that 
still have, here is another acronym, POTS, plain old telephone 
service. That is the old phone that you have in your house that 
is dependent on a copper connection that still runs to, you 
know, some little piece of equipment you see when you are 
driving out of your driveway or on the road, that old service.
    Some people still use that to make long distance phone 
calls, even though everyone that has a mobile phone can do it 
for no additional cost. If you are making those long distance 
calls from your plain old telephone, 30 percent cost factor is 
contributing to the United Service Universal Service Fund.
    It is just not sustainable. We have to modernize. We have 
to be smart about this. We have to make sure it works or this 
next generation of tools that we have. I also want to thank 
Chair Cantwell, Maria, for her leadership in this committee as 
the Chair of the full committee and for always making these 
priorities her priorities as well.
    To Ranking Member Cruz, I look forward to working with him 
in the next Congress to move the needle forward on this and so 
many other areas. And to the members of the Committee who I 
really got a chance to learn from, find commonality with 
challenges that exist in my state and in their states with 
where and how we can work together.
    I also want to recognize Betsy, who is we still with us 
here today, learning from her and getting a chance to work with 
her in this incredible role. Thank you for your expertise and 
be willing to work here. Eric, I want to thank you.
    I want to thank Matthew. There is a few staff that are no 
longer on the Committee, but John, Shawn, Christie, Mary, and 
Harsha. I also want to recognize Ariel, who was and is part of 
Senator Cruz's team for the work that she has done.
    Alex, on Senator Thune's, he has been incredible. His 
willingness to work together, plan together, find commonalities 
where we can. Agreeably disagree where we must. That is 
appreciated as well.
    Stephanie and Jeff, thank you for keeping this place 
running and informing us who is next by making sure you keep 
this place running the way that it should. They are clerks on 
the Committee.
    And then my staff, Jeff, Hakon, Shelby, Sophia, who is here 
with me as well, DeeDee, Carla, and Sarah for their expertise. 
It is--this comes with so many responsibilities and you need 
experts to help you through this.
    Now, with that, I will close this hearing. Should members 
have additional questions for the witnesses for the record, I 
ask that they submit them to the Committee by December 20, and 
witnesses will have until January 13 to respond. Thank you, 
everyone, so very much.
    [Whereupon, at 4:45 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

                            A P P E N D I X

      Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Ted Cruz to 
                           James Andrew Lewis
Cybersecurity and the Regulatory State
    The long history of state-backed cyberattacks, particularly from 
the People's Republic of China, will surely not be the last. 
Cybersecurity is of critical importance. However, the Federal 
government has a poor track record of protecting against cyberattacks, 
and we should be cautious about placing too much faith in more 
regulation or reporting requirements.

    Question 1. Are there ways to incentivize the adoption of better 
cybersecurity in the telecommunications sectors rather than reaching 
for the regulatory stick? For example, could we use regulatory or 
liability protections to align incentives and get companies to better 
protect their systems?
    Answer. More than a decade ago, Senators McCain, Leiberman and 
Collins held hearings on cyber security legislation. Ultimately, after 
interventions by business groups, the Senate rejected a regulatory 
approach in favor of a voluntary approach. At that time (2010), not 
rushing into regulation was the right decision since the U.S. could not 
define what regulations were necessary to reduce the risk of being 
hacked or which agency should be responsible (there was universal 
agreement that DHS was not capable of this). Faith that regulation 
could be avoided without degrading security was misplaced, however, and 
the result has been years of damaging hacks by opponent using the most 
basic techniques because of failures to take rudimentary precautions. 
The sector-specific approach adopted in 2012 and the work on defining 
basic cyber hygiene since then have changed this
    Regulation is essential and well regulated sectors do better at 
cybersecurity than unregulated sectors or, in the case of the FCC, 
sectors that are weakly regulated. The counter to this is the Eureopan 
Union, where over-regulation has killed economic growth and digital 
innovation. Too much regulation or badly designed regulation creates 
economic damage; the absence of regulation harms national security. The 
issue whether Congress and the Federal government can design 
regulations that balance national security and economic growth and 
there are examples of success, such as TSA's work on cybersecurity 
after the Colonial Pipelines hack.
    Overregulation is a serious risk, but this risk can be managed by 
relying on self-certification, accompanied by proof of the assertion of 
compliance that is then made public. This approach reduces the 
compliance burden without compromising performance and creates 
incentives for companies to improve their cybersecurity posture.

    Question 2. What are the risks of overregulating the telecom sector 
in response to cyber incidents like ``Salt Typhoon''?
    Answer. Badly designed regulation imposes costs without providing 
security benefits. The chief risk facing the telecom sector is that 
their need for capital to build out 5G networks means they will need to 
choose between modernization and expending the financial resources to 
pay for better cybersecurity. One precedent could come from the 
Universal Service Fund. Another could be creating tax incentives for 
more spending cybersecurity. Both of these actions require 
Congressional action. Funding needs to be provided on a recurring 
basis.

    Question 3. How can Congress support knowledge and threat-sharing 
across sectors to improve collective resilience against cyber threats?
    Answer. Knowledge sharing by itself is worthless. Companies, 
especially small-and medium sized companies, lack the resources and 
incentives to act on the information. Confining Federal action to 
telling someone that their shop is in a bad neighborhood and they 
should watch out for criminals is an abdication of responsibility. 
Information sharing has to be tied to a regulatory structure that 
includes promulgation of best practices, oversight and monitoring, and 
penalties for non-compliance.
Deterring Nation-state attacks
    During the hearing there was much discussion about the persistent 
nature of state-backed cyberattacks and the apparent increase in the 
brazenness of these attacks. Indeed, one witness called this latest 
attack, ``the most serious intrusion against U.S. telecommunications 
networks that I have seen.'' A recurring theme throughout the hearing 
was the lack of effective deterrence against nation-backed 
cyberattacks.

    Question 1. How can we most effectively deter nation-state attacks 
in the cyber domain?
    Answer. Deterrence has failed entirely in cyberspace and the 
pursuit of deterrence has had a crippling effect on U.S. strategy and 
performance in international security. It condemns the U.S. to a 
reactive and passive posture which opponents easily exploit. U.S. 
deterrent threats are not credible. To restore credibility requires 
first abandoning the idea that opponents can be deterred and replacing 
it was the idea that the imposition of consequences on opponents that 
go beyond complaints or feeble sanctions will chance their calculations 
of the benefit of continued intrusions.
    The steps needed for this are to first define a menu of effective 
consequences, communicate this to opponents (who will not believe the 
U.S. will take action) saying the U.S. will take action if they 
continue to hack, act, and then offer dialogue with opponents on what 
changes in their behavior we would like to see. This will take several 
cycles of warning, response, and negotiation and does not come without 
risk, but the alternative is to continue to be a victim.
                                 ______
                                 
  Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Marsha Blackburn to 
                           James Andrew Lewis
    Question 1. You've suggested that the U.S. response to Chinese 
cyber espionage has been overly restrained and advocate for measures 
such as targeting China's leadership, disrupting their cyber 
operations, or imposing harsher sanctions. What concrete actions could 
the U.S. prioritize to deter further cyber aggression from China?
    Answer. Changing China's behavior will be difficult. The first 
steps are to engage them, warn them, and after they ignore the first 
warning (almost inevitable, after years of U.S. inactivity), take 
action that creates tangible effect. We will need to repeat this cycle 
for some period of time as the Chinese do not believe the U.S. will 
respond seriously. Tangible effects could include actions like leaking 
information on the covert wealth of the leadership (in the past, this 
has prompted a major reaction from the Chinese), disrupting the support 
infrastructure of Chinese hackers in China and outside, and taking more 
vigorous counter-intellignce actions (such as arrests or expulsions) in 
partnership with allies. An overly legalistic approach used by the U.S. 
is regarded by the Chinese (and other opponents) as a symptom of 
timidity. The goal is not deterrence but engagement to change behavior.

    Question 2. How should Congress approach harmonizing cybersecurity 
regulations to ensure clarity, reduce compliance burdens, and enhance 
overall effectiveness? Are there specific frameworks or models you 
would recommend?
    Answer. Regulatory harmonization is a task for the next National 
Cyber Director, since only the White House has the ability to direct 
multiple agencies to take action. DHS/CISA cannot do this as it lacks 
authority over other agencies. Congress should task the new Director to 
review all existing regulations to harmonize them and eliminate 
overlap. This is not a one-time exercise but something that Congress 
should mandate as an annual review. A good place to start is with the 
Director's confirmation hearing

    Question 3. What broader structural or policy changes should be 
considered to enhance the Federal government's ability to respond to 
large-scale cyber threats effectively?
    Answer. A broad approach would have the U.S. engage in a sustained, 
senior-level dialogue with China to change their behavior (and this 
will entail undertaking measures of ``active defense''), develop 
regulatory standards to ensure minimum best practices are being 
observed (currently they are not in many companies), and build a common 
approach with other countries based on the multinational Counter 
Ransomware Initiative as a foundation
    Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Eric Schmitt to 
                           James Andrew Lewis
    Dr. James Lewis, Senior Vice President, Pritzker Chair, and 
Director of the Strategic Technologies Program, Center for Strategic 
and International Studies, Alexandria, VA

    Question 1. Subsea cables are essential to global connectivity and 
cooperating with international allies is vital to ensuring their 
security. For example, Japan is a key partner in securing subsea cable 
infrastructure, especially given the strategic security challenges in 
the Indo-Pacific region and its role as a trusted supplier and ally. 
Australia has also been supportive of these trusted network 
initiatives. How do you view the importance of U.S. collaborations with 
allies like Japan and Australia in addressing these security risks, and 
what key areas should we prioritize to protect subsea cable 
infrastructure, especially in the event of a kinetic war with an 
adversary in the Indo-Pacific region?
    Answer. Undersea cables are inherently indefensible, but several 
steps could reduce vulnerability. A first step would be to ensure a 
minimal degree of redundancy for vital communications. by building a 
more robust undersea cable infrastructure based on multiple cable 
systems and using satellites (which are inherently limited in capacity 
but much less vulnerable). Another steps is to increase repair 
capacity. A third step is to take legal action against ship owners and 
by intercepting and detaining ships suspected of disrupting undersea 
cables. This will require an increased degree of monitoring. If current 
laws are interpreted to preclude such actions, the laws should be 
changed.
    The chief dilemma here is that undersea cable resilience requires 
doing more than the market alone would justify for both capacity and 
repair. The additional effort may require either incentives (possibly 
using tax breaks) or additional government spending to build a degree 
of redundancy. The additional cost is unfortunate, but required by the 
current international situation.
                                 ______
                                 
      Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Ted Cruz to 
                             Justin Sherman
Cybersecurity and the Regulatory State
    The long history of state-backed cyberattacks, particularly from 
the People's Republic of China, will surely not be the last. 
Cybersecurity is of critical importance. However, the Federal 
government has a poor track record of protecting against cyberattacks, 
and we should be cautious about placing too much faith in more 
regulation or reporting requirements.

    Question 1. Are there ways to incentivize the adoption of better 
cybersecurity in the telecommunications sectors rather than reaching 
for the regulatory stick? For example, could we use regulatory or 
liability protections to align incentives and get companies to better 
protect their systems?
    Answer. There is a considerable, ongoing debate about software 
cybersecurity liability and whether it would be an effective mechanism 
to ensure that companies with adequate investments in reasonable 
security can keep doing business, enhancing their security continually 
over time, while companies that fail to invest in reasonably adequate 
cybersecurity practices are penalized for their failures--and 
incentivized to do better going forward. Congress should consider this 
debate and the various proposals at hand. In areas that are 
particularly sensitive for public safety and national security, 
however, it is of the utmost importance for the United States to defend 
against serious, persistent threats--such as from the Chinese 
government--without expecting that all companies will make the adequate 
security investments themselves (e.g., to protect Americans' data, to 
protect their own supply chains, to defend against Chinese state 
efforts to steal U.S. technology, etc.) without regulatory requirements 
or incentives.

    Question 2. What are the risks of overregulating the telecom sector 
in response to cyber incidents like ``Salt Typhoon''?
    Answer. The challenge with cybersecurity--as with many other issues 
that are about risk--is finding balance. Because is impossible to 
prevent all incidents, one of the central questions for Congress right 
now should be identifying that right balance between not erroneously 
expecting all companies to be able to prevent all incidents all the 
time (and regulating against that) and recognizing that company under-
investments in security and highly sophisticated threats (including 
from Beijing and Moscow) require the United States to raise the 
cybersecurity floor.

    Question 3. How can Congress support knowledge and threat-sharing 
across sectors to improve collective resilience against cyber threats?
    Answer. Congress should continue to work to ensure that companies 
sharing threat data with others in their sectors are able to do so 
quickly, effectively, and without undue fear of negative consequences 
from sharing that threat data, including with competitors. An ongoing 
challenge, on which I am happy to speak with your office further, is 
navigating public-private cyber threat-sharing in light of the sheer 
scale and scope of China's efforts to hack into American systems. The 
U.S. government sharing threat information with a small group of 
targeted companies is one thing, but it's another issue entirely when 
the number of potential companies, nonprofits, universities, 
individuals, and others targeted by a sophisticated threat actor such 
as the Chinese government is potentially endless (from the gaming and 
entertainment sectors to defense, tech, health, and more).
Deterring Nation-state attacks
    During the hearing there was much discussion about the persistent 
nature of state-backed cyberattacks and the apparent increase in the 
brazenness of these attacks. Indeed, one witness called this latest 
attack, ``the most serious intrusion against [] U.S. telecommunications 
networks that I have seen.'' A recurring theme throughout the hearing 
was the lack of effective deterrence against nation-backed 
cyberattacks.

    Question 1. How can we most effectively deter nation-state attacks 
in the cyber domain?
    Answer. As fellow witnesses noted in the hearing, there is a view 
that the United States can pursue deterrence by denial (such as by 
trying to deny a foreign adversary the ability to get into a particular 
network) or deterrence by punishment (such as by imposing economic 
costs on specific individuals and companies perpetrating cyber 
operations against the United States). In the former case, we should 
work to raise the cybersecurity floor as much as possible. While no 
company can guarantee that a foreign nation-state will never get into 
their networks, there are plenty of companies that could certainly make 
those intrusions less easy for the foreign nation-state--such as by 
implementing basic cybersecurity best-practices such as multi-factor 
authentication, robust encryption, strong access controls, continuous 
monitoring, supply chain due diligence, and other measures that are 
implemented by the companies with top security programs. In the latter 
case, it is probably long overdue to recognize that indictments of 
foreign nation-state hackers (while perhaps useful to document attacks, 
show an ability to attribute operations, etc.) is by and large not a 
serious cost, not going to result in their arrests, and not going to 
deter a persistent foreign threat actor such as the Chinese or Russian 
governments from continuing business-as-usual the next day. As was 
covered in the hearing, Congress could therefore consider what other 
measures--from sanctions to disruptive attacks like what was reported 
with U.S. Cyber Command and Russian operatives in 2018\1\--could 
disrupt and degrade ongoing nation-state operations against the United 
States. Additionally, it would help in future Congressional hearings, 
inquiries, and other efforts to continue to identify areas where 
foreign nation-states, such as Beijing, can easily infiltrate global 
tech supply chains and U.S. tech supply chains--and what can 
proactively be done about it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Ellen Nakashima, ``U.S. Cyber Command operation disrupted 
Internet access of Russian troll factory on day of 2018 midterms,'' The 
Washington Post, February 27, 2019, https://www
.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-cyber-command-operation-
disrupted-internet-access-of-russian-troll-factory-on-day-of-2018-
midterms/2019/02/26/1827fc9e-36d6-11e9-af5b-b51b7ff322e9_story.html.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                 ______
                                 
  Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Marsha Blackburn to 
                             Justin Sherman
    Question 1. Your testimony highlights the strategic importance and 
vulnerabilities of undersea cables, including the risks of espionage or 
sabotage. For example, there have been reports of Chinese vessels 
allegedly dragging anchors to sever cables. Given that the U.S. relies 
heavily on foreign repair ships, what are the national security 
implications of this dependency? Should the U.S. invest in enhancing 
its own subsea cable repair capabilities, and if so, how?
    Answer. It is critical that the United States, as a country, has 
the capacity to repair submarine cables even if other countries' repair 
ships are occupied by different incidents or priorities. The same goes 
for U.S. allies and partners. There is a risk that cables in critical 
areas could be intentionally damaged, and if this happens in a way that 
adversely impacts the United States, we need ships at the ready to 
respond without delay and to full effect. Even if damage is 
unintentional, cables could still need to be repaired quickly and in 
dangerous conditions (e.g., what happened in the Red Sea with the 
Houthis), likewise necessitating the capacity to repair ships. Congress 
did important work in this area a couple of years ago in standing up 
and funding the Cable Ship Security Program. It may be important, in 
light of growing risks from China and Russia in particular, to 
reevaluate that program and if more funding or additional structures 
may be needed.

    Question 2. When it comes to deterring cyber aggression by Russia, 
what strategies would you recommend to strengthen the U.S. posture and 
prevent future incidents?
    Answer. Nobody is going to stop Russia (or China) from attempting 
to break into U.S. networks. But, as you note Senator, the United 
States can work to strengthen its cybersecurity posture and consider 
more options to potentially disrupt operations and shape how foreign 
threat actors design and execute their operations and attacks. In the 
former case, many companies still lack basic cybersecurity best-
practices (like multi-factor authentication or strong access controls), 
and this remains a serious national security problem with critical 
infrastructure like our water treatment facilities and our electrical 
grids. As we have seen over and over, the nature of supply chains today 
means the weakest link in the chain can make the whole chain 
vulnerable. In the SolarWinds espionage campaign, for example, Russian 
government hackers targeted one weak company in the supply chain to get 
into a considerable range of other targets that otherwise had much 
higher security--but the weak link in the chain got them in.\2\ So, 
ensuring cybersecurity best-practices across all industries and 
bolstering supply chain security is paramount. In the latter case, 
other witnesses noted in the hearing already that the United States and 
its allies and partners can have conversations about ways to better 
impose costs on foreign adversaries such as Russia--and ensuring that 
the United States is doing everything it can to shape Russia's cyber 
behavior. I have written at length on Russia's cyber ecosystem 
specifically and am happy to follow up further on this subject.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ See, e.g., Saheed Oladimeji and Sean Michael Kerner, 
``SolarWinds hack explained: Everything you need to know,'' Tech 
Target, November 3, 2023, https://www.techtarget.com/whatis/feature/
SolarWinds-hack-explained-Everything-you-need-to-know.

    Question 3. What broader structural or policy changes should be 
considered to enhance the Federal government's ability to respond to 
large-scale cyber threats effectively?
    Answer. Many new U.S. laws and regulations contain cybersecurity 
incident reporting requirements--which are important for notifying 
victims, alerting companies to potential compromise somewhere along 
their supply chain, creating data about incidents over time, informing 
the U.S. government of relevant problems, and more. But incident 
reporting in and of itself does not stop incidents in the first place, 
if those insights are not used in actionable ways--and if there are 
inadequate investments in overall security. Congress should consider 
requiring (in some ways) and heavily incentivizing (in other ways) 
stronger cybersecurity baselines for critical infrastructure sectors. 
It should similarly consider robust security requirements for all 
companies handling personal data (like Americans' geolocation data and 
genetic data, of high interest to actors like the Chinese government) 
as well as companies with proprietary information (like semiconductor 
designs, cybersecurity threat data, or source code for critical 
systems).

    Question 4. How should Congress approach harmonizing cybersecurity 
regulations to ensure clarity, reduce compliance burdens, and enhance 
overall effectiveness? Are there specific frameworks or models you 
would recommend?
    Answer. While some companies may advocate for a single Federal law 
over many state laws so they can push for a weaker overall baseline, it 
is also true that it's untenable for many companies--especially small-
and medium-sized businesses that may be sophisticated but deal with 
smaller budgets and talent pools--to comply with highly complicated 
patchworks of overlapping laws, which are most navigable with large 
budgets and countless attorneys on hand. Simultaneously, as noted 
repeatedly in the hearing, considerable gaps remain in the U.S. 
cybersecurity regulatory landscape. I fully agree this is a serious 
policy issue. To better harmonize laws and regulations, Congress should 
start by looking at which areas of patchwork regulations are creating 
the highest costs to businesses and are creating the highest risk to 
the public and the country. These two categories may or may not 
overlap, but they will begin to give a better sense of which 
cybersecurity regulatory patchwork problems are highest-priority to 
address first.
                                 ______
                                 
    Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Eric Schmitt to 
                             Justin Sherman
    Mr. Justin Sherman, Founder and CEO, Global Cyber Strategies, and 
Nonresident Senior Fellow, Atlantic Council, Washington, DC

    Question 1. Can you talk about the value the CCP sees in 
controlling the global subsea cable architecture? And why is it 
important we work with our international partnerships as an avenue to 
shut out HMN Tech (Huawei Marine Networks)?
    Answer. Submarine cables carry 99 percent of the world's 
intercontinental Internet traffic, are a potential surveillance 
goldmine, and play an even more important role in global 
telecommunications and Internet networks with the explosive growth of 
cloud services and AI/ML applications. There are many reasons for the 
Chinese government to want to have a role in shaping that network, from 
potentially compromising specific access points to spy on Internet 
traffic moving around the world, to viewing the construction of cables 
as a component of its Belt and Road Initiative and efforts to build 
infrastructure in countries around the world. Thankfully, U.S. efforts 
on HMN Tech are mostly a success story; the company has lost a large 
amount of market share in recent years. The problem is--to underscore 
your point, Senator, and as I noted in my oral and written testimony--
that HMN Tech is hardly the only problematic Chinese company involved 
in the subsea cable supply chain. Others already present reason for 
concern and demand attention from Congress. I am happy to follow up 
further with your office on this subject.

    Question 2. In terms of ensuring trusted vendors are laying these 
subsea cables and not China, are there immediate things the U.S. can 
do, potentially through permitting or procurement practices, that 
lighten the burden for trusted vendors to get their projects built from 
America to other parts of the world?
    Answer. Yes. There is an important role for U.S. capacity-building 
in making sure that communications networks around the world are built 
in secure and resilient ways, whether the threats in question be a ship 
dragging an anchor and necessitating a repair, or a Russian government 
ship capable of going underwater and deliberately sabotaging a subsea 
cable. Working with allies and partners will further help promote 
awareness about the risks of using Chinese suppliers. The U.S. 
government should also be clear in its messaging about trusted vendors 
for the cable supply chain that its focus is on national security--such 
as encouraging other countries to avoid Chinese government repair ships 
that may be involved in espionage or supply chain compromise--and not 
engage in messaging that easily creates a perception overseas that the 
United States is attempting to use that security justification for 
purely economic reasons.

    Question 3. President Trump, during his first administration, 
issued a critically important Executive Order formalizing the Team 
Telecom process. The President recognized the need to assess 
applications in a timely manner given the significant importance of 
subsea cables. During the Biden Administration, I'm told the timeline 
for processing applications has increased from 90 days to up to an 
unfathomable 3 years. This is unacceptable at a time when we are 
experiencing a significant need for increased capacity on our networks 
in light of AI and IoT--and perhaps more important is the global 
competition we are in to defeat China. While our applications wait for 
approval, China and Huawei are deploying cables at lightning speed and 
we are ceding the field. What can we do to restore timeliness to the 
process as President Trump envisioned?
    Answer. This was indeed a critical executive order that recognized 
an essential program for U.S. national security. While I am not 
specifically familiar with the latest numbers on Team Telecom's 
application processing times, it is certainly important that programs 
like Team Telecom have the right processes, talent, and resources to be 
able to process applications on reasonably quick, fairly consistent, 
and transparent timelines. This is important for industry to have some 
level of transparency into, and to be able to expect some level of 
consistency from, such processes. It is also important for the U.S. 
government to be able to keep pace with Internet infrastructure 
development and with national security threats from foreign actors, 
such as the Chinese government. In my oral and written testimony, I 
noted that the Senate's 2020 bipartisan report on Team Telecom was 
viewed as an important and illuminating effort that informed thinking 
around President Trump's executive order as well as subsequent 
Congressional oversight and governing efforts. For what we can do now 
on the problem set, I would reiterate my recommendation that Congress 
initiate a lessons-learned report from Team Telecom to provide Congress 
and the public with major lessons learned in the design, 
administration, and threat analysis of its program since the 2020 
E.O.--and describing priority areas and national security risks for the 
next decade.
                                 ______
                                 
      Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Ted Cruz to 
                              Tim Donovan
Cybersecurity and the Regulatory State
    The long history of state-backed cyberattacks, particularly from 
the People's Republic of China, will surely not be the last. 
Cybersecurity is of critical importance. However, the Federal 
government has a poor track record of protecting against cyberattacks, 
and we should be cautious about placing too much faith in more 
regulation or reporting requirements.

    Question 1. Are there ways to incentivize the adoption of better 
cybersecurity in the telecommunications sectors rather than reaching 
for the regulatory stick? For example, could we use regulatory or 
liability protections to align incentives and get companies to better 
protect their systems?
    Answer. CCA supports incentives, especially for smaller carriers 
and companies working to protect against cyberattacks, as opposed to 
additional regulations and potentially punitive enforcement actions. 
Additional regulation and regulatory penalties can take resources away 
from actually improving cybersecurity. CCA encourages policymakers to 
consider additional capacity building initiatives, flexible safe 
harbors, and Federal support mechanisms for smaller telecommunications 
providers to help them bolster cybersecurity where it is needed most.

    Question 2. What are the risks of overregulating the telecom sector 
in response to cyber incidents like ``Salt Typhoon''?
    Answer. The burden smaller carriers face seeking to comply with the 
evolving security regulations from multiple Federal agencies, however 
well-intended, can quickly become overwhelmingly burdensome and 
potentially ineffective while diverting resources away from effectively 
responding to or avoiding cyber incidents. Minimizing the Federal 
agencies involved and synchronizing security-related requirements can 
reduce the associated regulatory burdens so providers with limited 
resources can use those resources to actually improve their network 
security.

    Question 3. How can Congress support knowledge and threat-sharing 
across sectors to improve collective resilience against cyber threats?
    Answer. For smaller and rural companies with fewer resources, 
security clearances, and technical expertise than larger, nationwide 
companies, the timely sharing of critical information and making sure 
it is actionable is critically important. Congressional efforts to 
lower the bar to participating in public/private information sharing 
activities, both within sectors and among sectors of the economy, could 
be helpful. This could include actions such as facilitating as-needed 
discussions for providers without security clearances, including one-
day read-ins, increasing capacity building efforts, and more 
effectively centralizing Federal jurisdiction over cybersecurity 
issues. For the telecommunications sector, information sharing efforts 
targeting small and rural carriers like the Communications Supply Chain 
Risk Information Partnership (C-SCRIP) at the National 
Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) are helpful 
and should be expanded, including appropriate resources to assist all 
carriers. Most small and rural carriers do not have the resources to 
participate in ongoing public/private initiatives on security such as 
the Department of Homeland Security's Cybersecurity & Infrastructure 
Security Agency (CISA) Communications Sector Coordinating Council. 
These carriers truly need engaged Federal partners, and they need 
access to the information and resources required for staying ahead of 
the seemingly never-ending game of security whack-a-mole.
Deterring Nation-state attacks
    During the hearing there was much discussion about the persistent 
nature of state-backed cyberattacks and the apparent increase in the 
brazenness of these attacks. Indeed, one witness called this latest 
attack, ``the most serious intrusion against [] U.S. telecommunications 
networks that I have seen.'' A recurring theme throughout the hearing 
was the lack of effective deterrence against nation-backed 
cyberattacks.

    Question 1. How can we most effectively deter nation-state attacks 
in the cyber domain?
    Answer. As network operators, CCA members play an important role of 
network defense as part of our Nation's cybersecurity policies, but 
cannot replace the overall strategy, posture, and roles of various 
Federal agencies. Carriers must have the resources and guidance from 
Federal partners to effectively secure their networks and continually 
upgrade, update, and patch their networks to support deterrence.
                                 ______
                                 
  Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Marsha Blackburn to 
                              Tim Donovan
    Question 1. What unique challenges do small carriers face in 
meeting existing cybersecurity requirements, and how can policymakers 
address these issues without compromising security?
    Answer. Smaller carriers often face challenges accessing actionable 
cybersecurity threat information from Federal partners and limited 
resources compared to nationwide carriers. For example, threat and 
incident information sharing from Federal agencies does not always 
incorporate smaller carriers at a level where they can either be 
proactive or mitigate a response with necessary precision. Further, 
smaller carriers generally lack staff with sufficient security 
clearances to participate meaningfully in cybersecurity-related 
information sharing. Smaller carriers also face challenges in terms of 
human and financial resources needed to ensure cybersecurity. Finally, 
smaller carriers face challenges in successfully balancing reporting 
requirements and resolving security issues given scarce resources. As 
breaches occur, it is important to balance alerting consumers and 
national security authorities with understanding and resolving threats. 
Policymakers can help address these issues through increased 
information sharing and providing additional resources and capacity 
building to smaller carriers to help bolster cybersecurity across the 
Nation.

    Question 2. What broader structural or policy changes should be 
considered to enhance the Federal government's ability to respond to 
large-scale cyber threats effectively?
    Answer. Policymakers could enhance the Federal government's ability 
to response to cyber threats by emphasizing the use of one centralized 
authority for cybersecurity in the United States. This would help focus 
attention and response activities, would facilitate clear and 
unambiguous guidance, and would also be more efficient in terms of 
resources. For example, CCA has encouraged the FCC to coordinate with 
CISA and industry-driven efforts instead of independently regulating. 
CCA has also encouraged CISA to synchronize its Cyber Incident 
Reporting for Critical Infrastructure Act (CIRCIA) reporting with the 
FCC's reporting requirements as encouraged by Congress.

    Question 3. How should Congress approach harmonizing cybersecurity 
regulations to ensure clarity, reduce compliance burdens, and enhance 
overall effectiveness? Are there specific frameworks or models you 
would recommend?
    Answer. In addition to the recommendations above, CCA encourages 
Congress to support efforts to increase collaboration between Federal 
agencies and industry to bolster network security and to remove 
barriers and uncertainty. This includes updates to information sharing, 
clear and consistent security requirements, increased participation in 
information-sharing by smaller companies, and a recognition of the 
unique challenges faced by smaller carriers, including limited 
resources.
                                 ______
                                 
    Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Eric Schmitt to 
                              Tim Donovan
    Question 1. I have sent letters to DHS and DoD regarding their 
efforts to identify and address the root issues that led to this 
extensive cyberattack. If China can penetrate our telecommunications 
networks for espionage, do you think their access could allow them to 
shut down cellular service for affected carriers? Could you discuss 
China's interest in exploiting vulnerabilities discovered by Salt 
Typhoon to launch an offensive cyber operation? Is this something we 
should be concerned about?
    Answer. CCA members are very concerned about cyberattack 
capabilities that could potentially disrupt communications, including 
cellular services. CCA members rely on Federal partners to secure 
networks, including to address potential geopolitical motivations for 
exploitation. These attacks are not unique to telecommunications 
networks and policies to address concerns should take into 
consideration the myriad industries and services potentially vulnerable 
to attacks.

    Question 2. Others at the hearing spoke about different network 
architectures that best protect against acts like Salt Typhoon. Let me 
ask you a hypothetical--If we are starting over and it is day one, how 
would you construct a secure network or what technology would you put 
in place to build the best network?
    Answer. All carriers seek to have the resources and capabilities to 
source the most advanced equipment, updates, and services from the 
trusted vendors, as well as human and financial resources to implement 
cutting-edge best practices, continually monitor cybersecurity issues, 
and participate in public/private information sharing activities. This 
is not reality, however, and any network can become increasingly 
vulnerable to attack as hackers test systems for potential intrusions 
like Salt Typhoon. One way to support secure networks and technologies 
going forward is to ensure predictable and sufficient support through 
the Universal Service Fund to preserve and expand connectivity with a 
focus on security.

    Question 3. In my most recent letter to DoD,\1\ I called on the 
Pentagon to establish stronger minimum cybersecurity requirements for 
contracted carriers. Do you believe enhanced minimum cybersecurity 
requirements would help mitigate attacks like Salt Typhoon? Are there 
any recommendations you can provide regarding ways to verify that 
enhanced minimum cybersecurity requirements are being upheld by 
contracted carriers?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ https://www.schmitt.senate.gov/media/press-releases/following-
devastating-salt-typhoon-hack-schmitt-and-wyden-call-on-pentagon-to-
aggressively-prioritize-telecom-security-in-wake-of-historic-salt-
typhoon-attack/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Answer. Due to the interconnected nature of networks, a 
vulnerability anywhere in our Nation's networks is a potential 
vulnerability for all carriers. Security requirements should be 
actionable for all carriers, and Federal programs and contracts must 
ensure sufficient resources are available to prioritize security.

    Question 4 a). Throughout your testimony and your exchange with my 
colleagues during the hearing, you stated that the challenges of 
defending against cyberattacks are insurmountable because defense 
requires protecting every part of the network. In contrast, an 
offensive cyberattack only needs to exploit a single vulnerability to 
gain access. You suggested that, no matter how much we spend or 
regulate, we may never fully protect ourselves from state actors like 
Salt Typhoon. In your professional opinion, what could effective 
deterrence in cyberspace look like?
    Answer. All CCA members work diligently every day to ensure that 
their networks are safe for their customers, using the best information 
available. Defending networks is a critical part of deterrence and 
should be prioritized with support and guidance for carriers from 
Federal partners as part of our Nation's overall deterrence strategies.

    Question 4 b). You also mentioned that Russia, China, and Iran may 
not have reached America's ``pain point'' in cyberattacks, largely 
because the Biden Administration's expected response has not been clear 
to our adversaries. In cyber strategy, there are only two options to 
protect your networks: deterrence through denial--an issue I have 
raised with the DoD--and deterrence through punishment. What does a 
well-balanced deterrence strategy based on both punishment and denial 
look like? How far off are we currently on the appropriate mix of 
denial and punishment? Additionally, what responses do you believe 
would be adequate for an incident like Salt Typhoon where the PRC 
targeted civilian infrastructure?
    Answer. As network operators, CCA members play an important role of 
network defense as part of our Nation's cybersecurity policies, but 
cannot replace the overall strategy, posture, and roles of the 
Department of Defense and other Federal agencies.

                                  [all]