[Senate Hearing 118-674]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]




                                                        S. Hrg. 118-674

                       OVERSIGHT OF THE COMMUNITY
                       ORIENTED POLICING SERVICES
                          (COPS) GRANT PROGRAM

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               before the

                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________


                             APRIL 10, 2024

                               __________


                          Serial No. J-118-61

                               __________


         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary






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                        www.judiciary.senate.gov
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                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

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                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                   RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois, Chair

SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island     LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina, 
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota                 Ranking Member
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware       CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      JOHN CORNYN, Texas
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              MICHAEL S. LEE, Utah
CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey           TED CRUZ, Texas
ALEX PADILLA, California             JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
JON OSSOFF, Georgia                  TOM COTTON, Arkansas
PETER WELCH, Vermont                 JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
LAPHONZA BUTLER, California          THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
                                     MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee

                 Joseph Zogby, Majority Staff Director
                Katherine Nikas, Minority Staff Director









                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page

Durbin, Hon. Richard J...........................................     1
Graham, Hon. Lindsey O...........................................     3

                               WITNESSES

Clements, Tony T.................................................     3
    Prepared statement...........................................    34
    Responses to written questions...............................    43

                                APPENDIX

Items submitted for the record...................................    33










 
                       OVERSIGHT OF THE COMMUNITY
                       ORIENTED POLICING SERVICES
                          (COPS) GRANT PROGRAM
                             GRANT PROGRAM

                              ----------                              


                       WEDNESDAY, APRIL 10, 2024

                              United States Senate,
                                Committee on the Judiciary,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice at 10 a.m., in Room 
G50, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Richard J. Durbin, 
Chair of the Committee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Durbin [presiding], Whitehouse, 
Klobuchar, Coons, Hirono, Booker, Padilla, Ossoff, Welch, 
Butler, Graham, Grassley, Tillis, and Blackburn.

         OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD J. DURBIN, 
           A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

    Chair Durbin. This meeting of the Senate Judiciary 
Committee will come to order. My colleague, Senator Graham is a 
few minutes late, but he's told me to go ahead and get started. 
He'll join us shortly.
    In 1994, President Bill Clinton and a Democratic-led 
Congress established a new grant program at the Department of 
Justice for Community Oriented Policing Services. Three decades 
later, the COPS Program has become a fixture of America's 
criminal justice system.
    According to the Department of Justice, Congress has 
appropriated over $20 billion for COP grants since the program 
was created in 1994. This is the first ever first ever full 
Committee Oversight hearing on the COPS Program.
    It's an example of our continued commitment to revitalizing 
this Committee's oversight role. The COPS Office was created to 
advance the vision of community policing, and build trust 
between law enforcement and the American people. By many 
metrics, the program is realizing its goal.
    As a result of COPS funding, over 135,000 police officers 
have been hired and placed on the beat at the State and local 
level. COPS funding for law enforcement training has improved 
the effectiveness of our police. The COPS Office PASS Grants 
have provided funds for scenario-based training to prepare 
officers to safely and effectively manage active shooter events 
and other violent threats.
    This year, the COPS Office will begin providing funding for 
de-escalation training for local law enforcement. This is 
thanks to the Law Enforcement De-escalation Training Act, a 
bipartisan legislation sponsored by Senators Cornyn and Coons, 
that this Committee approved and President Biden signed.
    We've also authorized the COPS Office to provide grants for 
mental health services for our officers, recognizing that law 
enforcement is indeed a very stressful job and takes its toll 
on many officers.
    Last year, this Committee advanced legislation to allow 
COPS Grants to be used to recruit and retain new officers, and 
to provide training for those who will serve in communities 
where they live.
    These bills passed the Senate unanimously, now awaiting 
passage in the House. I hope Speaker Johnson will move these 
bills quickly. Contrary to many claims, political claims that 
are not true, Democrats do not support defunding the police.
    The Senate has consistently supported the COPS Program with 
new appropriations, including over $600 million this fiscal 
year. There are countless examples of police officers who've 
acted heroically, risking their lives in some instances, giving 
their lives in response to an emergency, and they've saved the 
lives of many innocent people in the process.
    There are far too many examples of officers who've 
tragically lost their own lives in the process. We are grateful 
more than we can say in words for their service and sacrifice. 
We must also acknowledge the breakdown in trust between law 
officers and some of the communities they serve. That is a 
reality.
    I called last year for a national conversation about 
policing in a responsible, constitutional and humane way. I 
still believe that conversation is urgently needed. Our 
communities deserve real transparency in policing and real 
accountability for misconduct.
    Proposals for more comprehensive reforms to policing such 
as the George Floyd Justice and Policing Act have also been 
made. We need to pass these reforms to fully repair the 
relationship between law enforcement and the communities they 
serve,
    And we can do more to leverage the expertise and capacity 
of the COPS Office to advance community-oriented policing that 
serves and protects us. I look forward to hearing from the 
director of the COPS Office today about how we can support law 
enforcement in their quest to expand community-based policing.
    I'm going to recognize Senator Graham when he arrives, but 
let me introduce our witness that's joined us today. Hugh T. 
Clements, I welcome you. Mr. Clements serves as director of the 
COPS Office. He joined the office last year after nearly 40 
years of service as a police officer in Providence, Rhode 
Island. Mr. Clements started his career as a patrol officer, 
rose through the ranks to serve as chief of the department from 
2012 to 2023.
    He holds a bachelor of arts degree in sociology from the 
University of Rhode Island, a bachelor of science degree in 
administration of justice from Roger Williams University, and a 
Master's of Science degree in Criminal Justice from Boston 
University.
    Before I swear him in, I recognized my colleague, if you're 
ready, Senator Graham.

         OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, 
        A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA

    Senator Graham. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I look forward to 
the hearing today. The COPS Program, I think, it's been very 
valuable tool, and I look forward to receiving the information 
about how we can make it better.
    Crime is related to fentanyl and other type drugs that are 
sort of at an all-time high, and we need to make sure we're 
doing everything we can to help police officers and departments 
all over the country to deal with that. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Mr. Clements, if you could please stand up 
and raise your right hand.
    [Witness is sworn in.]
    Chair Durbin. Let the record reflect that you answered in 
the affirmative and now welcome any opening statement.
    Mr. Clements. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

            STATEMENT OF HUGH T. CLEMENTS, DIRECTOR,

        OFFICE OF COMMUNITY ORIENTED POLICING SERVICES 
                 (COPS OFFICE), WASHINGTON, DC

    Mr. Clements. Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member Graham and 
Members of the Committee, thank you for this opportunity to 
discuss the oversight of the Office of Community Oriented 
Policing Services, better known as the COPS Office.
    My name is Hugh T. Clements Jr., and I'm the director of 
the COPS Office. I joined the office in January of last year 
after nearly 40 years with the Providence Rhode Island Police 
Department. I started as a night patrol officer with the 
Uniform Division. Worked in both special investigations and the 
detective bureau, served as deputy chief, and in 2012 was 
appointed chief and promoted to the rank of colonel.
    Over its nearly 30-year history, the COPS Office has 
received bipartisan support as it implements the priorities of 
the attorney general and Congress. Helping law enforcement 
advance community policing practices is at the core of 
everything we do. Our mission is and remains the advancement of 
public safety through community policing. To date, we have 
provided grants to more than 13,000 small, medium, and large 
State, local and tribal law enforcement agencies to reduce 
crime by advancing community policing. We're not only a grant-
making component, but we also provide resources and assistance 
to help law enforcement agencies in the communities they serve, 
no matter the size or location.
    During my testimony this morning, I want to talk about our 
grant funding, the technical assistance resources, and 
materials we have for law enforcement, and how we ensure the 
fidelity to the taxpayer dollar. COPS Office Community Policing 
Development funds are used to develop the capacity of law 
enforcement to implement community policing strategies by 
providing guidance on promising practices and supporting 
creative approaches to preventing crime and promoting safe 
communities.
    Topic areas include enhancing de-escalation training, 
advancing crisis intervention teams, expanding law enforcement 
accreditation, and providing microgrants to fund innovative 
community policing projects at the local level.
    The COPS Hiring Program, CHP, is the office's flagship 
program and is designed to reduce crime and advance public 
safety through community policing. CHP funding provides direct 
support to State, local, and tribal law enforcement agencies 
nationwide to hire career law enforcement officers, to increase 
in the agency's community policing capacity and crime 
prevention efforts. We monitor all COPS grants to ensure 
fidelity to the taxpayer.
    Each grant we award requires quarterly federal financial 
and semi-annual performance progress reports. We review these 
reports on an annual and ongoing basis. This allows the office 
a means of oversight and early detection to troubleshoot any 
potential compliance concerns.
    The COPS Office had approximately $1.34 billion in active 
awards in Fiscal Year 2023. We conduct routine monitoring of 
100 percent of our grant funding and conduct intensive 
monitoring on no less than 10 percent of the active award 
funding amount each fiscal year.
    In Fiscal Year 2023, COPS monitoring encompass grants 
totaling $139.2 million. While not every law enforcement agency 
will receive a grant from the COPS Office in any given year, 
every agency in the country has access to our knowledge 
resources, training, and technical assistance free of charge. 
The COPS training portal provides a no-cost means for entire 
law enforcement organizations, training academies in individual 
officers to access high quality and engaging community policing 
training materials. Thank you for this opportunity.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Clements appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Mr. Clements, I'm going to ask a few 
questions and the other Members will have that opportunity too. 
When I dial 911, if God forbid I'm in that position, I pray to 
God that the person who responds has been carefully recruited, 
had been carefully trained, and is ready to come to the aid of 
my family as quickly as possible. I'm counting on that, and I 
think every American is counting on that no matter where they 
live.
    And so, the question obviously is the COPS Program make 
that likelihood better or not? Are we investing our money in a 
way that makes a difference? You've been a real cop starting 
patrolling the beat and working your way up at chief of the 
department. Did you see any measurable impact of COP--Federal 
COP funds on your performance in your police department?
    Mr. Clements. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The funding from the 
Federal Government and the funding in particular from the COPS 
Office absolutely has been invaluable from where I came from. I 
will tell you that police officers have a tough assignment in 
our communities.
    Basically, the mission is the same in all municipalities to 
reduce crime, fear, and social disorder, protecting 
constitutional rights, protecting human rights. It's a 
complicated assignment, that police officers have. The value 
that the COPS Office has provided to me when I was boots on the 
ground prior to my elevation to leadership roles in the 
department. And then after my elevation to those roles, 
particularly as chief, has been very helpful in building 
community partnerships and driving at problem solving in the 
community.
    So, it's the connection in the community where the COPS 
Office has given guidance and valuable resources in the terms 
of grant funding, training and technical assistance, and as 
well throughout publications and resources.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you. Let me get down to the hard issues 
because I know that we're going to reach them and the 
questioning from Members. There's no question that the United 
States still struggles with the issue of race, still struggles 
with the issue of immigrants and how they're to be treated by 
our official agencies of Government and certainly how they're 
treated on the streets and neighborhoods of this country on a 
regular basis.
    We've seen some outrageous examples. George Floyd comes to 
mind immediately, and we've heard rhetoric from some political 
figures who are branding immigrants, as not even humans, but 
calling them animals. And that sort of rhetoric and that sort 
of conduct really puts special pressure on the police. Can you 
tell me if the COPS Program addresses this in any way?
    Mr. Clements. Thank you, Chairman. It certainly does in all 
of our programs, but specifically in the CHP, the COPS Hiring 
Program, the Flagship Program. There is extra consideration for 
agencies and law enforcement executives who have a strong 
implementation plan, hand in hand with their community members 
to drive our trust and legitimacy in their neighborhoods.
    Again, I think all of the work we do in policing around the 
country is stronger and more valuable and has real impact in 
communities around this country when conversations ignite ideas 
and the message police leaders are given from their community 
are community informed.
    And then the message that police leaders give to their rank 
and file and their partners--law enforcement partners are 
community driven.
    So, community informed and community driven approaches to 
the real problems in a community. You know, the--in essence, 
police officers around this country and police agencies are 
looking to improve the quality of life, and that is done 
through problem-solving techniques.
    Chair Durbin. Mr. Clements on four or five different 
occasions, I put up a notice at the Police Training Academy in 
Chicago that I'm going to be sitting in a classroom for an hour 
and invite any member of the police force from that community 
who wants to come in for an off the record, no holds barred 
conversation to come on down, and they show up.
    I'm amazed to see a politician, for goodness sakes, because 
they want to get something off their chest. They want to tell 
their side of the story, they want me to understand what it 
means to wear that shield and to risk your life out on the 
streets on a daily basis.
    And how you have to make momentary, you know, just a few 
seconds of judgment. It could be life or death judgment for 
yourself, for innocent people around you or for the victim. And 
how tough that is, and how they think it's unfair that 
sometimes there are clips taken from videos that don't tell the 
whole story and they want the whole story told. Do you deal 
with that--have you dealt with that in your capacity as a chief 
and with the COPS Program?
    Mr. Clements. So, throughout my career, going to roll 
calls, being the leader of a large organization, and now in my 
role as the director of the COPS Office, yes, absolutely, Mr. 
Chairman, and thank you for identifying that.
    It is an extremely challenging role to be a police officer 
in American streets today. I mean, it's oftentimes, you know, 
police officers are sent to a situation with little or 
ambiguous information. They never know what hat they're putting 
on as they arrive on a scene, whether it's a rescue hat or a 
tactical hat.
    And it's a complex profession, and I think the training 
that you referred to was critical to giving police the 
confidence to go out there and perform this very challenging 
tough assignment on American streets.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Mr. Clements. Senator Graham.
    Senator Graham. Yes. Thank you very much Mr. Clements. This 
program has not been reauthorized since 2009, it's been funded, 
but not reauthorized. Would reauthorization help you, believe 
it?
    Mr. Clements. It would help the Department of Justice. It 
would help agencies around the country. In my role in as 
director of the COPS Office, I'm very connected to the law 
enforcement community and communities around this country. I 
can tell you, we get visits routinely. It's almost like it----
    Senator Graham. It would help.
    Mr. Clements. Significantly.
    Senator Graham. Okay. What I'd like you to do is send to 
the Committee, me or the Chairman or both of us, what you would 
like to see changed in the program to make it more efficient if 
we did reauthorize it. You know, I'm sure a lot has changed 
since 2009. You are in charge of anti-heroin, anti-meth 
programs under the current construct. I would certainly like to 
put Fentanyl in that group. Does that make sense? Given the 
problems we have with Fentanyl.
    Mr. Clements. It's a critical issue in communities around 
this country. Small, rural large, mid-size. So yes, Mr. 
Senator, I promise members of my office will provide that 
information.
    Senator Graham. Okay. I appreciate it. Let's talk about 
billing on what Senator Durham said about being a police 
officer. During your time as a police officer, would you agree 
this is one of the more challenging periods for the men and 
women in blue?
    Mr. Clements. Without question.
    Senator Graham. Has recruitment been affected by some of 
these challenges?
    Mr. Clements. Recruitment and retention has reached crisis 
levels in agencies, small and large around the country.
    Senator Graham. Yes. So, let's just dig into that a little 
bit. Recruitment and retention has reached a crisis level 
throughout the--I couldn't agree with you more. One of the 
things about the COPS Program, maybe if we reauthorize it, we 
could focus on that a bit.
    So, we want to recruit and retain qualified people who wear 
the badge well. How you engage minority community is very 
important. We want to make sure that people feel like the cops 
are fair and on everybody's side.
    Do you hear much when you talk to police officers about 
sort of a catch and release mentality in some districts in this 
country, that you'll grab a guy or bad person and by sundown 
they back out on the street? Is that a problem you hear much 
about?
    Mr. Clements. So, Senator, yes. I travel around the country 
to major stakeholder groups in law enforcement, in the 
communities. And that's a local issue in our communities around 
this country. And from my vantage point and my bully pulpit as 
the director of the COPS Office, and we want to be able to give 
these local agencies the resources they need to combat those 
issues.
    Senator Graham. But, right, it only works if the person on 
the prosecution end actually follows through, right?
    Mr. Clements. Correct.
    Senator Graham. You can arrest all day. You just need 
somebody to take it to the next level.
    Mr. Clements. And again, we want to be able to give these 
agencies, police executives, and officers out there on the 
street doing the job, the resources, to get those--it's 
generally a small number of individuals in each community 
causing the vast amount of violent crime.
    Senator Graham. Yes. We found that to be true and so--I'm 
sure you watched the video of a group of people attacking two 
New York police officers who had been in the system many times 
and got out. Does that take a toll over time?
    Mr. Clements. It does, and it's, as you alluded to in the 
beginning, it's a pivotal moment in the profession. It 
absolutely takes a toll on retention. I think in going around 
the country, the larger organizations that I spoke to have more 
of a retention issue than a recruiting issue, it does take a 
toll, and----
    Senator Graham. You seem to be the right guy at the right 
time. And I'm a Republican, and, you know, our folks focus on 
the Laken Riley case, and, you know, a system is completely 
broken and allows folks to get in the country, unvetted, that 
should never have been here to begin with, but we got to fix 
it. We just can't complain about it.
    We have to empower people like you. I think I'd like to 
reauthorize the program to give you more tools. Life has 
changed since 2009. So, Mr. Chairman, let's see if this 
Committee can come up with a reauthorization bill that would 
give this gentleman more tools, more resources, reinvent the 
program in light of where we're at in 2024, that'd be a worthy 
endeavor. And count me.
    And I think most of my Republican colleagues support the 
COPS Program. We'd like to modernize it, and we'd like to make 
sure that the men and women in blue do not feel so let down. 
That needs to change. And I'd like to part of the process of 
changing that. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Graham caught me in.
    Senator Graham. Great.
    Chair Durbin. I want to thank Senator Booker for coming 
early and positioning himself to be the next person recognized. 
Senator Booker.
    Senator Booker. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, this is long, as 
you said, overdue, years overdue hearing. The COPS Program was 
vital to my city when I was mayor of the city. I don't know how 
we would have survived in our mission without it. My police 
officers that I almost literally lived with during my days, are 
some of the most heroic people I have ever seen.
    I am proud that under the Biden administration, we have not 
just continued to fund the COPS Program, but have funded it at 
historic levels. I have some concerns. And the first one is 
sort of a stunning to me, sir. I've looked at your record. You 
are an extraordinary public safety official. Your record in 
your State and your leadership was incredible. But something 
happened, and I remind you we're under oath. But did you say 
that you would not show up to this hearing if we had another 
panel focused on the community?
    Mr. Clements. I never said that.
    Senator Booker. Again, and maybe we need to clarify. You're 
not aware of your office asking for us not to have a second 
panel dealing with community issues?
    Mr. Clements. I am not aware of that, Senator.
    Senator Booker. I find that surprising, given what I've 
heard, and frankly, the things I've heard from your office this 
last couple weeks have been extraordinarily frustrating. I'm 
trying not to take them personally. I'm just one Senator.
    From what I've heard, you don't give a damn what I think. 
But I will tell you this, the work and the obligations that you 
have are critical. And what does the C stand for in the COPS 
Program?
    Mr. Clements. Community.
    Senator Booker. Right. And, do you think under oath that it 
would be probably really important that this Committee have a 
panel hearing from community stakeholders about this program?
    Mr. Clements. I do. And I thought that was the case. And, 
and I couldn't agree more with you, Senator, that C is in the 
word COPS because community are part of policing and the word 
public is in public safety for that reason as well.
    Senator Booker. And, you know, from your experience, and 
again, everything I review we're an extraordinary public safety 
official with a career to be really proud of.
    Mr. Clements. Thank you, sir.
    Senator Booker. And, yet, right now, my concern is with a 
program I support that I want to see reauthorized, that I'm 
grateful to hear Lindsey Graham talk about modernizing the 
program. The frustrations I've had over the last week with your 
office is just understanding what metrics you keep.
    Now, you were a leader of police force. I lead a city. Data 
transparency, accountability, the sophistication of your 
metrics is vital for public safety, is it not?
    Mr. Clements. It is, and Senator, I want to stress the 
importance of you getting the information and data you need.
    Senator Booker. Sir, I'm glad you're saying this right now 
under oath. But, Democratic Republican Presidents, I haven't 
had the kind of frustrations and heard the things I've heard 
from agencies like I have over yours, the last couple of weeks. 
You talk about deconfliction grants. What data do you collect 
to see if those grants are effective?
    Mr. Clements. So there have been many researchers and 
studies done over the years. I came into this assignment in 
January 23, but I----
    Senator Booker. So in the last year and quarter in your 
organization is a guy who understands leadership. And I know 
this from looking at your record, the importance of collecting 
data and having public transparency.
    Does your office collect data when it comes to the deep 
confliction grants you have, about use of force, about civilian 
complaints, about incidents of misconduct? Do you look at the 
before and after of the grants that you're giving out, critical 
data that would help us understand if the millions of dollars 
we're putting--hundreds of millions of dollars putting into 
this program are actually effective?
    Mr. Clements. So, Senator, we do have quarterly and semi-
annual financial progress reports--progress reports from these 
agencies that we review on a routine basis throughout that 
year, throughout the grant period. We are not an investigative 
agency.
    Senator Booker. No, you're not. But you're giving out 
grants that have specific ends, and you've given Congress no 
transparency, no data to understand whether the money we're 
investing is producing the results. The, the information I have 
been able to get, from your office of public information says 
that you barely do 10 percent of reviews of the grantees that 
get the resources.
    That you're barely collecting the kind of data on the 
various mission of your organization. That would give us some 
kind of clarification if we're making investments that are 
reaping results. I agree with Senator Graham, we need to 
modernize the collection of data, because in the last 2 weeks, 
I have been utterly frustrated to understand what your office 
is doing besides counting the numbers of police officers that 
are hired with the grants, which is vital and why I support 
this program, why I have voted for it's historic funding.
    But as two men who have been responsible for the safety of 
our communities and understand the urgency and importance of 
connections to community, of building trust between law 
enforcement and community. I know that transparency matters, 
and I know that accountability matters.
    Your not to manage these departments you give grants to, 
but you have an obligation for the taxpayer money that you're 
giving out to make sure it's making some progress toward its 
mission. This is to me, vital for the success of this program.
    And sir, it's vital for me because as great as my police 
department is, and as much as the change they've made, I still 
live in a Black and brown community where the number one issue 
in my community is public safety. Where I still--even as a 
result of the last year, have shootings in my community where 
my family lives. And so, I know what drives change, as do you, 
because I've read everything I can about your career.
    When you were in law enforcement, you demanded 
transparency, you demanded data, you demanded accountability, 
you demanded real methods to build community trust. Why now do 
we have an agency like yours that doesn't collect the most 
basic things that we would need to inform a reauthorization of 
this program? And I think Mr. Chairman, my time is up, but we 
need to put in this grant things that will modernize this 
program so we have more transparency and accountability for the 
money we're giving out. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Tillis.
    Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Clements, 
thank you for being here.
    Mr. Clements. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Tillis. I do think it would be helpful to, if you 
parse through some of what Senator Booker said there--for the 
record, you could present information on how you're tracking 
the progress of the program. I think that would be helpful. My 
guess is that you would've, people in your organization that 
could provide satisfactory answers for a lot of the questions 
that were raised.
    [Poster is displayed.]
    I want to talk about an investment that I think we just--I 
never missed an opportunity to bring this up because it's still 
out there. I just did a search again on ActBlue. ActBlue is the 
aggregation engine for my colleagues on the Democratic--for the 
other side of the aisle. We have WinRed. So, we all have 
fundraising platforms to get low dollar donors.
    You know what bothers me about this one? In spite of the 
number of times that I've talked about this in this hearing, 
it's still up there. Black Lives Matter wants you to run 13.12 
miles. You know why? Because 1 3 1 2 translates into ACAB, 
which translates into all cops are bastards that is still on 
their website.
    We're coming in here questioning their motives. When we've 
got people out there raising money, telling people to run 
around police departments, run through those communities and 
treat police officers like they're the criminals, excuse me, 
versus the heroes that I think they are.
    So, my colleagues who use ActBlue to raise money, fine. I 
use WinRed, would you please tell them to get this garbage off 
their website and calling all cops bastards. Now, how's morale?
    Mr. Clements. Certainly, in traveling around the country to 
major stakeholder groups. In many agencies police officers do 
feel demoralized.
    Senator Tillis. How's recruiting?
    Mr. Clements. Recruiting is difficult, and----
    Senator Tillis. How are retirements?
    Mr. Clements. Our retention is an issue.
    Senator Tillis. Right. How many major police offices have a 
shortage of officers that are out on the beat today?
    Mr. Clements. Many.
    Senator Tillis. Yes. Is it getting better?
    Mr. Clements. It is getting better.
    Senator Tillis. Why?
    Mr. Clements. I mean we were asked--we were asked to run 
the--with the bully pulpit of this office, a convening session 
by the attorney general Merrick Allen, to give guidance and 
practical advice to agencies around the country, small, mid-
size and large, about how they can enhance their opportunities 
to recruit and retain officers in the field.
    And that guidance is practical. It's very good advice. And 
I think we're starting to see a little bit the light at the end 
of the tunnel in that area.
    Senator Tillis. How can we be helpful?
    Mr. Clements. So, look, I mean, it's always about--the work 
we do is about community--criminal enforcement and community 
engagement. And this Committee can be helpful with continuing 
to fund the COPS Office.
    I can tell you, in traveling around the country, not only 
police groups--major police groups who are the tip of the spear 
in reform around this country, and we are too, that what we can 
do is continue to fund COPS Hiring Programs or continue to fund 
programs that drive at violent crime. Continue to fund programs 
that drive at building trust in legitimacy, in communities, and 
building relationships.
    Because the data all shows that advancing public safety 
through community policing absolutely drives to better 
statistics in relationships, number one and number two, in 
bringing crime down. And I lived it, I was a police officer 38 
years. And I can tell you in my time as chief, if you were to 
tell me prior to my arrival that if we cut arrest in half that 
we would have less crime. I may not have believed that in the 
beginning, but that's exactly what we did.
    Through community policing programs, we were able to cut 
arrests and to cut crime.
    Senator Tillis. I'm a big believer in it, and particularly 
in the more at-risk communities. I think that it's--you know 
Senator Booker was referring to Black and brown communities and 
in New Jersey, but I've actually seen very successful programs 
when police officers are embedded in community building trust 
in Black and brown communities.
    We need more of it. We need the resources to make sure that 
you can do that. I think it makes communities safer. It makes 
minorities more likely to trust police officers, engage with 
them. I've seen that with illegally present people. Community 
policing lets them feel comfortable as they're being exploited. 
And these communities of color.
    You know, Mr. Chair, I don't often get angry, and I'm not 
going to go over time, but I have to say that this is a chance 
for my colleagues to put to bed this idea that even some--to 
say all cops are bastards is just really angering to me. And 
that's what they say.
    [Poster is displayed.]
    So please, before the next hearing that we have, please 
tell me that somebody on this Committee or in the Senate will 
go to ActBlue and say, this is not helpful. And as a matter of 
fact, this sort of activity, this sort of message, makes the 
very Black and brown communities that we want to make safer, 
less safe. Thank you, Mr. Clements.
    Chair Durbin. Mr. Clement, for the record does your agency 
have anything to do with ActBlue?
    Mr. Clements. No.
    Chair Durbin. No, I'm sorry. I didn't hear you.
    Mr. Clements. No. No, sir.
    Chair Durbin. I don't either. I know that the Senator's 
upset about this situation.
    Senator Tillis. Well, Mr. Chair, it's only--it's a matter 
of record. I could go through and provide for the purposes of 
the Committee, if we want to report back on fundraising efforts 
where ActBlue was used for Members of the Senate. I'd be happy 
to do that. I'm not trying to do that. I'm trying to end this 
objectionable practice by a platform that should exist. This 
should not be a part of you all's brand.
    Chair Durbin. I don't believe the COPS program is 
responsible for that. Senator Klobuchar.
    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Senator Durbin. 
Thank you very much Director Clements for being here. I have 
one focus today and that is to get this bill done. And I 
appreciate that Chair Durbin has called this hearing so we can 
talk about oversight. And I appreciate the information and the 
information that I know will be forthcoming in answer to some 
of the questions.
    But enough is enough. A year ago for COPS Week, we passed 
amendments to the program, and we still have not marked up this 
program. Despite having Ranking Member Graham supporting the 
bills, Senator Tillis, Senator Coons, many other have stated 
their support. It is long overdue.
    Yes, we get appropriations year after year. That's why 
you're in business when we'll give to your good work in what 
you are doing. But at some point, we have to actually 
reauthorize this program and make very clear where we stand. 
The communities in my State, listen, I am supportive of Senator 
Booker's efforts on reform. A number of pieces of legislation, 
as you know, have passed in States across the country and in 
cities and the like. And it's very important.
    I come from a State where George Floyd was murdered, but at 
the same time, what I am seeing right now is a lack of law 
enforcement in the very communities that we need to help the 
most. They want law enforcement. In my State, in the city of 
Minneapolis, they had a vote on defund. And it was the 
communities of color that opposed defunding the police because 
they understood that they needed the funding.
    This program that you oversee adds funding to help the 
police. I was reminded of how important this is at a funeral 
that I attended of Burnsville Police Officers, as you know, who 
were just murdered in cold blood, Paul Elmstrand, Matthew Ruge, 
as well as paramedic Adam Finseth.
    You know what they did? They were called to a scene in the 
middle of the night and they got seven kids out of a house in a 
horrible, chaotic situation. And then they were killed, and the 
paramedic was killed trying to rescue one of the police 
officers. They were heroes.
    So, I don't think for 1 minute we should forget the 
officers, every single day who go to work and put their own 
lives on the line. Reform. Yes. Accountability. Yes.
    But at some point, with the recruitment problems we're 
having, with the retention problems we're having, particularly 
in major cities in this country. We made on a bipartisan basis 
to stand with the program that does not involve increased 
criminal penalties. It has been a program for decades that had 
basically just said, we're going to help local communities to 
get some more police officers on the street and to bring down 
crime.
    Last year, nearly 400 different law enforcement officers 
relied on the COPS Grant Program to hire over 1,700 full-time 
law enforcement officers. And since its inception, the COPS 
Hiring Program has helped fund 138,000 law enforcement 
officers. So, my first question of you Director Clements, is 
can you speak of the severity of the ongoing recruitment and 
retention crisis nationally?
    Which, by the way, big time includes rural areas as people 
are poaching each other, they have no choice because less 
people are going into law enforcement. Could you talk about the 
ongoing recruitment retention crisis and how the COPS hiring 
grants are essential to keep these departments afloat?
    Mr. Clements. Thank you, Senator. And thank you for your 
continued support of the work that we do in the COPS Office. 
And this entire Committee, thank you for your support. It's 
invaluable to the field. And so, this convening session that we 
were tasked to run along with our colleagues on the OJP side, 
BJA, we ran that convening session that put out some very good 
practical guidance to municipal leaders and police leaders on 
how to beef up their recruitment efforts and how to sustain 
retaining officers who are in their communities.
    And we looked with a wide lens, from small and rural 
organizations to big, large cities like with tens of thousands 
of police officers. And, the guidance in that publication is 
invaluable. And I think it will lead to greater numbers going 
forward, including looking at it with a wide lens. Like looking 
at maybe take home cars for officers, maybe relocation costs, 
costs for the officers.
    Certainly, an issue is salary and benefits in updating 
their collective bargaining agreements in certain communities 
where, I mean, police officers want to work in a community 
where they're supported both by messaging and they want to work 
in an agency where they're supported by benefits and salaries 
for the difficult work they do in their communities.
    Senator Klobuchar. You speak to--there've been a number of 
studies that show having the police officers that are giving 
them tools and technology they need, the training, which we 
know based on some of these cases around the country is 
critical.
    Multiple studies demonstrate that investments in police 
department through the COPS Grant are associated with 
reductions in crime. Can you speak to how the evidence 
demonstrates that investing in law enforcement through COPS 
Grants reduces crime?
    Mr. Clements. So there have been several pieces of research 
and evaluations that have identified that. And I believe that, 
you know, and we certainly can forward all of them to this 
Committee--Members of this Committee and your staff. And I'll 
tell you, as far as the training we do in the COPS Office, it's 
a three-legged stool. It's grant so it's not only financial 
assistance to agencies around the country, but it's training 
and technical assistance.
    And probably most important are the publications and 
resources that we put out to agencies around the country. That 
has been a valuable tool, not only to police leaders, police 
agencies, but to communities.
    And at the end of providing all of these resources, we do 
surveys. And the data has been astounding, is to the value are 
received by police officers receiving that training and the 
feedback from communities has been strong.
    Senator Klobuchar. Very good. Senator Graham--now one last 
question here--Senator Graham asked you about fentanyl, and I 
have looked at this and I know that you have been able to use--
without amending the program--that you've been able to use the 
Anti-Heroin Task Force--COPS Anti-Meth Program, toward 
investigations into fentanyl as well. Is that right?
    Mr. Clements. That is correct. So the anti-heroin, anti-
methamphetamine, and it does include fentanyl as well, and it's 
harming to a significant degree communities around this 
country.
    Senator Klobuchar. Exactly. Okay. I want to thank you. 
Thanks, Senator Murkowski, for leading this bill with me, our 
Members who've been supportive. It's time to get it marked up.
    And I'll just end by, at that funeral service for those 
officers and that firefighter, the police chaplain spoke and he 
actually said, despite how difficult it is to be in policing 
right now, and given the solemn moment, we are at in this 
memorial service, it is still a career worth going into and 
asked young people to join the police force in the name of 
those three men.
    So that's what I carry with me, and that is what my mission 
is to get this bill done. Wall reform efforts continue to go on 
across the country. But all this bill is about is making sure 
these grants go out and getting the information from you, which 
I know that you have on the effect it has on reducing crime. 
The huge need right now we have for retention as well as any 
other information we need.
    I know you do a lot of collecting the information. I hope 
we can get it to the Members and we can go on and mark up this 
bill and just stop talking about it and stop saying how in 
supportive we are when we won't even vote for this basic 
federal program that has been working. So, let's stop amending 
it and start actually passing it.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Blackburn.
    Senator Blackburn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you 
so much for being with us today. I think each of us are 
concerned about the rise in violent crime we have seen in this 
country in the last few years, and here in DC, with the budget 
being cut, $15 million for the police force.
    And then you see this escalation rate we've all known of 
staffers and people that work on the hill that have had 
carjackings or muggings. Michael Gill who had worked for the 
Trump administration, was killed during a carjacking, and 
leaving his wife and his three children.
    So, I think you're probably with me and many of my 
colleagues that disagree with what has happened in defunding 
the police, and the causes that have been there and this rise 
in violent crime. And indeed, I'm from Tennessee, Memphis is a 
city that has seen a 42 percent increase in juvenile crime, and 
we are continuing to work with leaders there to address this 
issue.
    And Senator Cortez Masto and I have a bill, The AFTER 
SCHOOL Act, that would deal with that period of time from 3 
p.m. to 6 p.m., when localities need to have afterschool 
programs in high crime areas so that kids have somewhere to go, 
so they don't become associated with gangs.
    And we know that juvenile crime is plaguing a lot of our 
cities. So, I'd love to hear what you are doing to target that 
rise in juvenile crime?
    Mr. Clements. Thank you, Senator, for your support in 
identifying that. So, in communities around the country, there 
is concern with violent crime and it's localized. And I'll tell 
you that, that shows the value of the COPS Office. And hearing 
from chief executives of law enforcement after conversations 
with their communities--what is important in their communities.
    We know from the data recently released by the FBI from the 
2022 to 2023, which the violent crime is actually trending 
down. As well as a study done by the Major City Chiefs 
Association of the 69 cities that they represent. Violent crime 
is going down.
    But that means nothing to individuals in the community that 
are experiencing an increased level of carjackings, an 
increased level of violent crime. That is exactly where the 
value of the COPS Office is provided in listening to individual 
agencies is what is their biggest concern in how can the 
Federal Government, and how can the COPS Office be that force 
multiplier in assisting the local agency with not only funding 
grant dollars, but resources as well in the form of training 
and technical assistance.
    Senator Blackburn. Well, and dealing with these juvenile 
offenders and juvenile violent offenders is important. And I 
have done a bill Keep Violent Criminals Off The Street, that 
would deal with this cashless bail issue. I know in Memphis and 
Shelby County, one of the issues has been a soft on crime 
prosecutor, soft on crime judge and letting people go with no 
cash bail.
    And so, we have legislation that would keep them locked up 
and keep violent offenders, whether they're a juvenile or not 
off the streets. And I would love for you to talk for just a 
minute about this policy of cashless bail and the effect that 
is having on violent crime?
    Mr. Clements. So again, the mission of the COPS Office and 
the role that we play in the community is providing agencies, 
the resources they need to attack the criminal problems in 
their community. The funding that we have goes to the police 
leader, to the police agencies that has to have a plan, a 
comprehensive plan, an innovative plan.
    I will tell you that the needs far outpace the funding. 
There are many agencies that put in for the COPS grant. We just 
cannot support all of the agencies that apply. So, whether the 
local agency has an issue with their prosecution doesn't fall 
into play. What comes into play, is how they're going to 
address their particular crime problem, whether it's 
carjackings, an increase in retail theft, an increase in 
whatever violent crime.
    Senator Blackburn. Right. Yes. I realize that. But I think 
the overriding point is this, if you have movements like Defund 
the Police, if you have this rhetoric that is going on about 
disrespect the police. If you have officers retiring because of 
that. If you have officers that are frustrated, because they 
have prosecutors and judges that will not keep criminals locked 
up.
    Then that has the effect of producing results that the COPS 
Program then issues grants to try to deal with and, to address 
these problems that arise in these communities. I'm over time. 
Thank you for being here. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Clements. Thank you, Senator.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Coons.
    Senator Coons. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you 
Director Clements. Let me just start by making sure I heard you 
correctly. Violent crime across the country is down. Is that 
accurate? Is that based on FBI statistics?
    [Points at witness.]
    Mr. Clements. It's trending down, correct.
    Senator Coons. And it's been trending down over the last 
several years?
    Mr. Clements. No, just in--I'm not sure the exact--I 
believe it was 2022 to 2023. There was a huge uptick 2020 and 
2021.
    Senator Coons. The single largest federal investment in 
public safety and law enforcement was the American Rescue Plan. 
Is that correct?
    Mr. Clements. Correct.
    Senator Coons. And President Biden signed in the law of the 
Bipartisan Safer Communities Act, which was the most important 
gun safety bill in 30 years. I just--at the outset, one of the 
things I have a hard time with is a continued drumbeat that 
suggests that this administration is somehow for defunding the 
police, when in fact they have advanced funding proposals that 
are among the most significant in American history for the 
recruitment, the retaining, the retention, the training, and 
the deployment of police.
    I was a county executive in Newcastle County, Delaware. My 
predecessor in this seat now, our president was a co-author of 
the bill that created the COPS Program. And over three decades, 
it's deployed 20 billion in grants and helped hire 130,000 
officers in my county. Cops Grants were critical to our being 
able to keep, retain and train officers and get them on the 
street.
    And COPS grants have helped provide mental health services 
to officers, up-to-date training for how to deconflict, and how 
to reduce conflict, keeping kids in school safe and keeping 
small agencies fully staffed.
    Ahead of this hearing, I asked law enforcement officials in 
my State what COPS has meant to them. One police chief raved 
about the program saying he was only able to keep his force at 
strength and to meet the crime needs in his community because 
of this program.
    Another said that these are objectively difference making 
grants in our community. Despite some of the successes of this 
program, there are real challenges in recruitment and retention 
across the country. There are real challenges in public service 
of all kinds, at all levels, but in policing in particular.
    My Recruit and Retain Act, which I'm leading with Senator 
Fischer and which passed the Senate unanimously, would allow 
COPS Grants to support partnerships between law enforcement and 
schools to help create a stronger--a career pipeline, a hiring 
pipeline for students potentially interested in policing. And 
would allow COPS Grant funds to go to the overhead costs that 
come with administering and fully complying with COPS Grant 
Programs. In your experience, what are the strategies that have 
worked to create sustainable diverse recruitment pipelines for 
officers?
    Mr. Clements. So, the strategies that have worked on that 
front as the local community policing executives working with 
their community are using guidance from the federal level--I 
couldn't agree more. The Safer American Plan has dedicated a 
ton of necessary funding to this office to push out to agencies 
around the country. This year alone, we look to push out $1.3 
billion in awards with our colleagues and partners over in BJA 
on the Office of Justice program side.
    Important critical funding that you've identified from 
police leaders in your own State and again--so we need to be 
creative in how we recruit going forward, and maybe look at 
non-traditional type candidates. I think many agencies are 
going toward a testing format that identifies those particular 
individuals to make sure.
    And we did it, where I came from, to really diversify the 
force to ensure that we had a force that truly reflects the 
community. And one academy that we had graduated--a large 
academy--that spoke 14 different languages in a very diverse 
community. And its paid dividends, and it built capital in the 
community.
    Senator Coons. I'm familiar with Providence. My dad lived 
in Rhode Island for a number of years. It is a tough town. It's 
an incredible, great diverse town. And having a diverse police 
force that actually represents the communities being policed is 
critical to improving community police relations. Last 
question. Sometimes it's the smallest departments that most 
needs COPS grants, but most struggle to sustain them. The 
paperwork, the oversight, the compliance, and the sustainment. 
What can we do to balance that to help smaller departments 
navigate the recruitment opportunities that a COPS grant brings 
but also fully comply with the obligations of oversight and 
making sure that the commitment to auditing and to monitoring 
is fully met?
    Mr. Clements. Great question, Senator. And it has been a 
focus and commitment of this office over the years to move in 
that direction. There is on the COPS hiring side the COPS 
Hiring Grant, there is a stipulation mandated that 50 percent 
of the funding goes through agencies with a population of less 
than 150,000.
    And we've been very conscious on our side when awarding 
grants to ensure that we're spreading out the grants by States, 
and by type and variation of an agency. As we know, most of the 
police agencies in this country have less than 50 officers and 
a huge percentage has less than 20 officers.
    And they are oftentimes communities that are least 
financially able to add one officer in a department that has a 
composition of 8 or 10 is a huge lift. And we've been very 
conscious of that. And I think if you look at the data from our 
side, you'll see that we've done well in that arena and 
spreading it out to the small and rural.
    Senator Coons. Thank you, director. I look forward to 
finding a path forward. I'm a co-sponsor of this bill. I think 
we should reauthorize the COPS Program. I think we need to make 
sure that it is being put to positive public purposes, that it 
is transparent and accountable.
    But frankly, I've had personal experience with the 
difference it's made in my State, in agencies large and small. 
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Coons. Senator Grassley.
    Senator Grassley.
    [Audio malfunction occurs.]
    Director Clements, I was at Budget Committee responses or 
opening comments, I'm sorry. The COPS Office has thoroughly 
vetted vetting measures for grantees. All grantees must provide 
quarterly financial reports and semi-annual performance reports 
to your office. This is done--this is--was something wrong. I'm 
sorry. I'll start over again then. Can I have my full 5 
minutes? Okay.
    The COPS Office is thoroughly vetting measures for 
grantees. All grantees must provide quarterly financial reports 
and semi-annual performance reports to the COPS Office. This is 
done so any problem may be caught and addressed early, and if a 
grantee is not complying, their funding will be terminated.
    But some of these reporting requirements have proven 
burdensome for small and rural law enforcement offices that 
can't afford to have a full-time grant writer on staff to apply 
and comply with the grants. What steps have you taken to make 
sure that smaller and rural law enforcement can comply with the 
requirements of the COPS Grant Program?
    Mr. Clements. Thank you, Senator. And an important 
question, and I'll tell you that members of the COPS Office on 
the grant application side work very closely with members of 
these smaller agencies. We've made a focus and a commitment to 
attract these type of agencies for dollars that are sometimes 
the most needed in these smaller type agencies.
    You no longer have to have a professional grant writer to 
attain a grant from the COPS Office. In fact, we have members 
of our team that walk an agency or agency's leaders through the 
process. Certainly not without giving them an edge, but walking 
them through a process where they don't need a grant writer to 
effectively apply for and be awarded a grant. In fact, there 
are many agencies that do not have a grant writer who have been 
awarded COPS Office grants from small communities.
    Senator Grassley. To you, again, the Government 
Accountability Office found that COPS Office Hiring Program, 
the grant application and monitoring process could be improved. 
GAO made two recommendations, both of which the COPS Office 
have implemented. So then, as a followup to those 
implementations, what improvements has the COPS Office made 
under your leadership to the COPS Hiring Program, application, 
and monitoring process?
    Mr. Clements. So, of course, you know, in the work I did 
previous and now in the work in leading this office, compliance 
and oversight is important. And we need to look at that data 
and that information and that critique in a way that's going to 
improve the level of services that we're providing to the 
field.
    It's important for us to be prudent with the taxpayer 
dollar and respect the fidelity of the funding and thankfully 
given by the Administration and Congress, and we appreciate 
that.
    So, the information and critique we get from the auditing 
agencies that overlook the COPS Office is important, and we 
agreed on that particular audit that you're referring to with 
all four recommendations, and are moving in a positive 
direction to rectify each one of them.
    And that's always going to be the case. I mean, it's 
important to have another set of eyes. We do the quarterly and 
semi-annual progress report review and an ongoing review 
throughout the entire year. But then as well, we have another 
set of eyes look at the auditing of the grants. And that's done 
by another agency on the OJP side. And that's--we've done that. 
The federal mandate is 10 percent, each year, the COPS Office--
even prior to my arrival--has exceeded that 10 percent required 
number mandated by Congress.
    Senator Grassley. The COPS Office publishes something 
entitled Law Enforcement Officers Shot in the Line of Duty. 
That's a report. This is part of legislation that I led with 
Senator Cardin and other Members of this Committee. The latest 
report shows that a total of 331 law enforcement officers were 
shot in the line of duty during calendar year 2022, nearly 60, 
more than in 1,919 before the Defund Police Program.
    While I'm pleased to hear some of my colleagues recognize 
that a main cause of this violence against police is a 
demonization and disrespect shown to the profession, it's not 
enough.
    So, Director Clements, I led a bipartisan effort improving 
Law Enforcement Officers Safety and Wellness through Data Act. 
My bills on existing reporting requirements and fills gaps to 
increase our understanding of circumstances precipitating and 
involving ambush style attacks against law enforcers.
    So, to you, how important is it to better understand the 
factors contributing to increase in ambush attacks against 
police, so we can stomp stomp out this scourge on our society?
    Mr. Clements. Thank you for your support and eventual 
passage of that bill. It is critical to the field in this 
inherently dangerous job performed in the field. And we through 
our provider on that National Blue Alert Program the FOP, we 
recently released the 23 numbers--2023 numbers.
    And disappointingly, they're higher than 331. They went up 
to 378. And of those 378 police officers who were shot 115 were 
by ambush style. And in those 115 episodes, there were 136 
police officers who were shot. I can't say thankfully, but--and 
I shouldn't use the word only--but of that 115 episodes, and 
136 shot 46 died, succumb to their injuries.
    But that's only because of the great medical trauma 
improvements that have been made over the years. So, you know, 
that's a positive. But the real negative is these ambush style 
attacks on police officers, that National Blue Alert Program 
has been adopted by 38 States. It should be adopted by every 
single State.
    It works along the same lines as an Amber Alert, where if 
there's an inherently dangerous situation where a police 
officer has been injured, shot, killed, or there's an inherent 
danger to the police and the community, the information goes 
out to local law enforcement agencies in that State, like the 
Amber Alert, it goes to the media, it goes to the public, and 
it's a great program.
    And thank you for you know, the passage of that program. 
And it's going to good use, or the data is important. Data is 
always important. Unfortunately, it's going in the wrong 
direction.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Grassley. Senator Hirono.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Director Clements, 
to some extent, COPS grants can seem to us on the outside as a 
bit one size fits all. As one example, I believe the grants 
seem to cover salaries and benefits are fixed nationwide, 
despite radically higher costs of the living in Hawaii.
    As another example, some police departments have adopted 
modern use of force guidelines, while others have not. How does 
your office work to tailor COPS grants to the needs of local 
communities? And can we do anything legislatively to enable 
more precise local tailoring?
    Mr. Clements. Thank you, Senator. That absolutely is a 
concern on our side as we look to award agencies who have 
applied, and again, the needs far outpace the funding. And with 
that dollar amount of 125,000 per officer for the term of the 
grant, it's a different variation as you go from community to 
community where some of the mid or larger size agencies have a 
higher salary commitment. So, it's a burden to those agencies. 
And as well, I'm sorry, I forget the second portion of your----
    Senator Hirono. Well, it's basically about tailoring of--
the second part had to do with the example I gave of some 
police departments have adopted modern use of force guidelines, 
but others have not.
    Mr. Clements. Yes.
    Senator Hirono. And the question is whether your office 
does something to pretty much you know, to encourage----
    Mr. Clements. Importantly.
    Senator Hirono [continuing]. Other departments who receive 
these grants to adopt those methods?
    Mr. Clements. So it's part of the metrics for the total 
number of agencies that apply for these grants. Again, it's 
very competitive. Those agencies who put forth the best plan, 
the most innovative plan with their communities, the community 
engagement they have, the community partnerships they have, but 
as well, their policy internally in the department, their 
policies as it pertains to use of force, as it pertains to de-
escalation, training in their agencies, and in particular items 
like duty to intervene. And just providing the level of 
training that benefits the officers responding to these 
critical calls, number one.
    And but number two to enhance the relationships in the 
community and to build that trust and legitimacy that is ever 
important to building a community oriented policing agency.
    Senator Hirono. So, is it that your office does not require 
conformity regarding certain standards from the police, such as 
what is it duty to intervene in some of the other kinds of 
practices that your office does not require conformity?
    Mr. Clements. We do not----
    Senator Hirono. For the police departments?
    Mr. Clements. We do not require, however, there are 18,000 
police organizations in this country. We give priority 
consideration to those agencies that have that in their policy. 
And I will tell you with the volume of requests we get for 
grant funding, everyone gets training and technical assistance, 
and everybody has access to our 796 publications and resources.
    But on the grant side, the needs far outpace the funding. 
And I will tell you, in each of the buckets of grants that the 
COPS Office delivers, that those agencies that do not have 
those type of policies are not receiving the grants.
    There's so many priority considerations given for the 
priorities of the executive order and the administration that 
those are the agencies that are rising to the top.
    Senator Hirono. You said that there are about 18,000 police 
agencies and entities?
    Mr. Clements. Yes.
    Senator Hirono. Eighteen thousand. How many are receiving 
grants--COPS grants?
    Mr. Clements. Well, last year for the COPS Hiring Program, 
I think there were 654 applications, 394 were given the green 
light and awarded to the tune of 1,730 officers.
    Senator Hirono. So, when you say that the need for far 
outpaces, the resources, this is a very big need outpacing. So.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Clements. We funded about 1,100 agencies last year, 
last fiscal year, and there's 18,000 agencies. Correct.
    Senator Hirono. I think we need to take a look at providing 
more adequate funding. Hawaii's 988 service provides 247 free 
support services for crisis intervention, mental health 
support, and substance use treatment, that can serve as an 
alternative to calling the police to address the mental health 
crisis.
    So, are there sufficient authorities in place for the COPS 
Office? Do our grants to these types of community-based 
alternatives that allow communities to deploy police only where 
they're needed?
    Mr. Clements. So underneath the community policing 
development side of our grant opportunities are a very 
necessary and needed part of that crisis intervention teams.
    And they're great examples of crisis intervention teams 
around the country that were in place prior to 2020. However, 
since 2020, there are many agencies that lacked, and there was 
a gap. So, we do have--and we're thankful to Congress and the 
administration for the funding to increase the funding for 
agencies to adopt crisis intervention teams as it relates to 
the conversations with their community.
    Because quite frankly, many of the social ills have been 
placed squarely at the feet of police. And oftentimes, they're 
not the best trained, equipped or resourced to respond to those 
needs. Absolutely. We need additions in every police agency for 
clinicians and mental health workers.
    Senator Hirono. So, you don't need further authorities as 
much as you need resources. Thank you.
    Mr. Clements. Correct.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Hirono. Senator Padilla.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair, appreciate the 
dialog that this Committee has had today as we're looking at 
community-oriented policing, which Mr. Chairman, I think I may 
be not, if not the only one of the few Members of the Committee 
that have had experience with the COPS Program.
    Not just through federal oversight role, but in the past as 
a local government official. Drawing funding to the city of Los 
Angeles to help hire additional police officers. So, I 
appreciate the program for the multiple dimensions that it 
tries to serve.
    Most people focus just on the ability to hire more police 
officers, which is necessary. A lot of local jurisdictions 
struggling to have their budgets meet the need of the number of 
personnel they need to patrol and protect communities.
    But it is equally important in this conversation, in this 
program to focus on the community oriented policing policies 
and strategies that have been developed and evolved. Would you 
agree with that, Mr. Clements?
    Mr. Clements. 100 percent.
    Senator Padilla. Okay. Thank you for that. So, in that 
spirit one technical question, just to get out of the way, I 
knew that from the outset of this program, maintenance of 
effort by locals was imperative to receive this additional 
federal funding. It's meant to compliment not to supplant local 
dollars. Is that still a requirement?
    Mr. Clements. That is correct.
    Senator Padilla. Okay. And I think, not sure if the City of 
Newark, New Jersey was a recipient when Senator Booker was 
mayor, but he may appreciate that same dynamic as well.
    So, just two examples I wanted to share with the Committee 
of how recipients in California have advanced the thinking on 
community policing strategies. One being the city of Santa 
Rosa, where program funds helped create an outreach team 
dedicated to addressing homelessness and promoting positive 
community engagement.
    Another in the City of Hayward, California Police 
Department established a multi-agency safe housing program that 
addresses problem properties through holistic and community-
based approaches.
    So, this is the kind of thinking--success stories that I 
think we need to elevate and share more of than just talking 
about the dollars and cents and how many more women and men we 
can put in uniform.
    So, Mr. Clements, can you share with the Committee how some 
of these initiatives and success stories are shared across 
jurisdictions?
    Mr. Clements. So, not a surprise that those agencies have 
been recipients of COPS awards because upfront they had a very 
comprehensive, innovative proposal put forward and realize 
grant awards. And then we're able to carry out that function in 
their community.
    But as well, it's not only about getting the grant and 
allowing that agency to succeed in their own jurisdiction, in 
their own State, it's important to lift up that community of 
practice. And we do this around the country. And, again I 
travel all over the country speaking to the larger stakeholder 
groups, International Association, Chiefs of Police, Noble, the 
union organizations, the Paternal Order Police----
    Senator Padilla. So, you're talking about attending other 
people's events. My specific question now is, are there any 
formal structural mechanisms in your office or in this program 
that facilitates that best practices or information sharing?
    Mr. Clements. Yes. Through our, you know, the third leg of 
the stool of the COPS Office, grants, training and technical 
assistance, so publications and resources. So, we lift that up 
through our resources, through the publications. To date, over 
the years there, 796 publications. They're extremely well done. 
They're accessible on, and as well, we have a podcast and a 
beat and a newsletter where we lift up those great examples.
    Senator Padilla. Can you point in any of those three legs 
of that stool, specific examples of how you and your office are 
working with law enforcement to build trust in every community? 
We know that fair policing is important. What are you actively 
doing through the office and any of the initiatives to address 
historic bias in some law enforcement agencies, and increasing 
police accountability?
    Mr. Clements. Senator, every single one of our programs, 
not only the grants, but if you look at our publications 
training, every single one of them touches upon the items that 
you just brought up, including de-escalation, including bias in 
the community, and building that trust and legitimacy.
    It's a requirement to be administered a grant. But not only 
that, if you look at our publications and the material we put 
out, it's integral to everything we do in the COPS Office, and 
that's why it's held in such high regard and of great value in 
the field.
    Senator Padilla. So, just in closing, appreciate you 
sharing that. I know this was part of your response to Senator 
Booker's line of questioning as well. I echo his requests for 
better data collection and gathering. And as he has, I sidebar 
for a minute, I was sharing with him my experience as a once 
upon a time member of the Los Angeles City Council, when we 
entered into a consent decree with the Department of Justice 
for what they had found--a pattern of practice, of excessive 
use of force within the LAPD after years of compliance came out 
of the consent decree.
    But I reference that only because, in a consent decree--
that was the first of many across the country--there is 
required--federally required data collection. To the points 
that Senator Booker was making.
    So, I just encourage you, if we're looking at examples of 
what types of data to gather, how to analyze, how that can 
inform future policies, there's that minimum one source for 
your consideration. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Clements. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Klobuchar [presiding]. Thank you, Senator Padilla 
and next up, Senator Ossoff.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I'm happy to 
yield to and follow Senator Butler, who I think has been here 
for a while and may have an upcoming obligation, and that's----
    Senator Klobuchar That's correct. So, Senator Butler.
    Senator Butler. Thank you, Senator Ossoff. Oh the 
generosity of my colleagues. Thank you, Senator Ossoff, I 
really appreciate it.
    Thank you, Director Clements, for your time and service at 
the COPS Office. And I think informed by your time and service 
in the uniform. And I think it is important that in these 
hearings and at every opportunity, we recognize the service and 
sacrifice commitment of our law enforcement officers, and we do 
everything that we can to support them and to make sure that 
they are working with the community to get to the level of 
public safety that we all deserve.
    I guess what I appreciated about your remarks were how you 
described the three-legged stool. There's the grants and, you 
know, there's been a lot of conversation about the grants. 
There's the research and technical assistance, and then the 
publications.
    I wanted to apply my sort of line of questioning maybe 
across all three, because ultimately just to not bury the lead, 
I want to try to understand what it is as a new Member of this 
Committee that I--how it is that I, and this Committee can 
actually help to ensure that you have the tools that you need 
to get to the kind of analysis and true support that I think 
those 18,000 agencies across the country really need from you.
    And so, what, like, just a topical question. So, do you 
have the capacity--you said that when there are applications 
that are submitted there's got to be a comprehensive, 
innovative plan that is a part of those, those application and 
grant processes. Are there requirements in the application 
process for post action reporting?
    Mr. Clements. So, yes, there is, and again, so there's 
ongoing review but post action as well.
    Senator Butler. And then do you think that you have in your 
agencies, the tools, program staff to make sure that there is 
timely--timely being the operative point--timely analysis of 
the hundreds, if not thousands of grants that you and your 
agency award on a given year.
    The analysis of the training and technical assistance, the 
overall impact, do you have in your department, the resources 
to do that timely analysis and then therefore timely 
communication about those best practices that are happening 
across the country?
    Mr. Clements. So, yes for the most part by the requirements 
mandated by Congress, which is to monitor an enhanced level, 
the 10 percent are in a very deep dive into what we're 
realizing as an agency in the field. So, you know, we have that 
quarterly, semi-annual progress report, the routine monitoring 
as the cost of the grant moves on, and then as mandated by 
Congress that 10 percent, which we exceed, and we did $139.2 
million last year, which was more than the 1.34 billion, more 
than the 10 percent that we had in the field.
    Senator Butler. So less--I'm asking the question less about 
like the dollars and cents kind of question, but more outcomes 
impact kind of question. If you have 600 agencies, I think was 
a, a roundabout number that, that were awarded last year. And 
200 of them were funded through, up to focus on community 
intervention teams. Do you have the timely--the resources to 
say, okay, of those 200 grants that were awarded focused on 
community intervention teams, here were the themed bucket 
lessons that were learned, here's the best practices, here's 
what worked. Here were the outcomes that were focused. We were 
able to hire, you know, 200 more women, we were able to enhance 
language capability of X number of communities.
    Do you have the ability to--in your office understand in a 
timely way and a in a relevant way for those agencies that are 
depending on this--these kinds of, of services and grants to 
actually communicate how best they can achieve those similar 
outcomes of those agencies? Just sort of a little bit of 
testing, modeling analysis. And I assume that is the purpose of 
the kinds of research and publications that you want to offer.
    Mr. Clements. So, I appreciate the question, and I don't 
want to dodge the answer, so I want to give you a real answer 
that, look, we get a review at the tail end, and it depends on 
the specific metrics that would be looked for from the field, 
so we do that to the mandate of Congress that 10 percent.
    But as far as a deep dive--on in that one particular 
event--we gave out 1,100 grants last year on all 1,100, no, 
only the 10 percent.
    Senator Butler. I appreciate you not dodging my question 
and being direct in the response again, I really want to make 
sure that we have the resources--your team, have the resources 
to really support the outcomes that our officers on the ground 
are truly putting their lives on the line to achieve.
    I don't want to put words in your mouth. But I think in the 
selection of the words that you offered back to me, there might 
be more room to--for Congress to ask for more accountability 
and to equip you with the tools to actually be able to share 
more of the learnings across the agencies through all of the 
legs of the stool that we as Congress have asked you to support 
those agencies.
    And so, I hear that as a takeaway. I appreciate you for 
engaging in the conversation, and again, for your service and 
commitment to the officers across the country. Thank you, Madam 
Chair.
    Chair Durbin [presiding]. Thank you, Senator Butler. And--
--
    Senator Butler. Sorry, sir.
    Chair Durbin [continuing]. Just as a lesson that the Good 
Samaritan never goes unpunished. Senator Ossoff, who could now 
recognize Senator Whitehouse.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Whitehouse. Sorry, Jon. Let me just say, first of 
all, how very happy I am to see Colonel Clements here. I've 
known him since he was a sergeant, I believe, on the Providence 
Police Department. He brings the perspective of having led the 
police union of the Providence Police Department and led the 
Providence Police Department.
    And having left both of those roles, both unscathed and 
with enormous affection and respect from the union membership, 
from the members of the police department and from the 
community where he was instrumental in maintaining solid, good 
trusting relations between the Providence Police Department and 
the various Providence communities that it serves.
    So, it's a real treat to see you here, my friend. And I 
wanted to ask two quick things. One, the COPS Hiring Program 
and the grants that go out always got a lot of attention. But 
what are some of the best ways that the COPS Office works to 
build trust between communities and law enforcement that you 
were so instrumental in doing a great job with in Providence?
    Mr. Clements. So, first off, always great to see you, 
Senator. Maybe not so much in this type of forum.
    Senator Whitehouse. We've had more fun, right?
    Mr. Clements. Thank you for your words, though. But look 
the COPS Hiring Program is the flagship program, and I know it 
was integral to the work that we did in Providence. And I see 
now in this role, the importance of looking at the 
applications, once again, the needs far outpace the funding.
    So, we get 654 applications for COPS Hiring Grants, and 
only award just under 400. Those other 200 agencies or so--250 
we're needy of the COPS hiring. Only those applications with 
the greatest or the strongest plan of community engagement, 
community involvement, and what I saw from where I came from 
was, partnerships and building relationships across the board, 
across the community.
    And we always include that as part of our application 
process. And I'm seeing now there are many, like agencies doing 
similar things. It's true, the word community is in the COPS 
Office for a particular reason. It is community policing. The 
word public is in public safety for a reason. It's, you know--
it will always be that strong criminal enforcement, because 
people want to be safe. People want a community to live and 
thrive in, but they want it to be safe. So, it will be those 
conversations with the community--community informed 
conversations that drive the agency.
    Senator Whitehouse. And let's just be a little bit more 
specific in particular relation to the bill that Senator Cornyn 
and I worked on regarding de-escalation, and crisis 
intervention and strategic alternatives to the use of force. 
When we did that, we chose the COPS Program to be the 
implementer to work with and train agencies. How is that going?
    Mr. Clements. It's going great. I can tell you the value in 
the field is well regarded. The interest is overwhelming. And I 
stood with you, I think it was in 2019 in the Providence Public 
Safety Headquarters, when you announced a portion of that, 
supporting and treating officers in crisis. The STOIC Act of 
2019. I believe it's coming up maybe the end of this year or 
next year.
    But it, it's integral to the work that we do in the field 
with having a co-response of trained clinicians working hand in 
glove with the police department to provide those services. The 
police officers oftentimes aren't the best trained, aren't the 
best equipped, but in that De-escalation Training Act, it 
imposed some very important terms like alternatives to use of 
force.
    The training is integral, duty to intervene is important, 
and now incorporated in as part of training in most 
organizations, or, but there are still some that are lacking. 
That's why the funding for this type of award are so important 
to agencies around the country. I'm finding out not that every 
agency is doing it to the same degree of efficiency.
    Senator Whitehouse. Good work, getting back to the need for 
funding.
    Mr. Clements. Thank you, sir.
    Senator Whitehouse. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. 
Colonel Clements, thank you. Good to see you, sir.
    Mr. Clements. Good to see you, sir. And Senator Ossoff, my 
appreciation for jumping in ahead.
    Chair Durbin. Senator from Georgia.
    Senator Ossoff. I considered yielding to Senator Welch, but 
I'm sorry, Peter. It's--I have limits.
    Chair Durbin. Too much to ask.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Director Clements for your 
service and your testimony today. Communities across Georgia 
rely upon and appreciate the daily sacrifice of officers and 
deputies in our State, who put their lives on the line, who 
make tremendous sacrifices and take risks. And their families 
make tremendous sacrifices as well to defend innocent people 
and to protect public safety.
    And, you know, Mr. Chairman, I think we need to consider 
significant increases to this authorization, given the scope of 
need, given the violent crime that afflicts communities in my 
State and across the country.
    This program is a vital part of our national effort to 
resource public safety and law enforcement, and to resource the 
kind of innovative programs that you've testified, you 
prioritize to build trust between communities and law 
enforcement. And so, I'm grateful to you for leading this 
program, just as I'm grateful to the officers and deputies in 
Georgia who keep us safe every day. I'd like to ask you, 
Director Clements, how do you measure success?
    Mr. Clements. It's perception, I mean, it's not all about 
data. I mean, we can speak about violent crime being down 
whatever percent and shootings and homicides being down, 
whatever percent. And I lived it, when our numbers were 
increasingly descending downwards. Many in the community would 
say, but in this particular community, I don't feel safe 
because last week, so I think we measure fear of crime----
    Senator Ossoff. Well, forgive me Director Clements, I 
clarify the question. I mean, how do you measure the success of 
a specific grant?
    Mr. Clements. We have--there's been all sorts of research 
and evaluations that have identified programs that we have put 
out in measured in fact that as one example, that an increase 
in arrest doesn't necessarily lead to an increase or a decrease 
in crime.
    Senator Ossoff. Forgive me if I'm not being clear, but if 
you make an award to a particular local agency, how do you 
measure whether the grant was successful?
    Mr. Clements. So, they had their progress reports. We had 
the end of year report from that agency, and we forward all 
that information to our partners and OJP who have a more 
critical eye in reviewing--exactly to your question. And we put 
out publications with the research in what that information 
tells us.
    Senator Ossoff. Do those progress reports include as a 
requirement, metrics with respect to use of force, with respect 
to officer involved shootings, with respect to allegations of 
potential racial bias?
    Mr. Clements. No. We are not an investigative agency with 
our grants and awards that we put out. There are investigative 
bodies within the department Office of Criminal Rights and 
Civil Rights.
    Senator Ossoff. And then one of the purposes of the program 
is in fact in the title of the program, is to promote community 
oriented policing. How do you measure, for example, whether a 
grant has successfully reduced negative interactions between 
the public and the local agency?
    Mr. Clements. We have not done that on every single grant 
that we put out to answer your question directly. However, we 
measure that by their progress reports and by the evaluations 
we do with the community as well.
    Senator Ossoff. And when you say their progress reports, 
and you mentioned earlier, you get the review, are those 
progress reports generated by your staff or by the grantee?
    Mr. Clements. By the grantee and reviewed by our staff. And 
we modify gaps that we see along the way where they're not 
complying with what they put forth in their original plan that 
they were going to do in their community. And those are 
measured by, you know, how many partnerships and what type of 
groups are they partnering with in their community. And, you 
know, there are many conversations after a grant is put out by 
our agency with community members.
    Senator Ossoff. Are the semi-annual performance progress 
reports made public?
    Mr. Clements. No.
    Senator Ossoff. Why not?
    Mr. Clements. I can take that back. There are some--with 
grants--with funding being put out by a federal agency, there 
are some stipulations with sensitive information from 
particular agencies.
    Senator Ossoff. You can redact the sensitive information.
    Mr. Clements. It's a legal question that I can take back, 
but no, they are not public.
    Senator Ossoff. Okay. Will you followup with my team and 
the Committee about that, please?
    Mr. Clements. Absolutely sir.
    Senator Ossoff. And the enhanced monitoring reviews are 
those results made public?
    Mr. Clements. Same answer. No.
    Senator Ossoff. Okay. And you'll followup on whether and 
how and why not and what's in those reviews that might be?
    Mr. Clements. I will Senator.
    Senator Ossoff. So just to make sure I'm clear, it doesn't 
sound like there is a clear set of metrics that are universally 
applied to measure the success of the grant. It sounds like 
it's a subjective evaluation based upon reporting produced by 
the grantee. Is that accurate?
    Mr. Clements. No. There are clear sets of metrics that are 
reviewed by our staff, at the end, but they--maybe not every 
single metric that you or other agencies are looking for.
    Senator Ossoff. Yes. If you're trying to--and you have a 
mandate from Congress through this program to promote 
community-oriented policing and build trust between communities 
and law enforcement, why would you not collect, for example, 
use of force data?
    Mr. Clements. We're not an investigative body, and I think 
that's been a challenge.
    Senator Ossoff. It could be self-reported by the grantee, 
couldn't it?
    Mr. Clements. And we encourage that. And those type 
agencies are more likely to receive a grant and funding--
they're all accessible for the free training, technical 
assistance and publications. But those agencies that do report, 
as I did in the agency I came from, we reported all of that 
data to the FBI and we're more likely to receive a grant than 
others who maybe don't.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Director Clements.
    Mr. Clements. We encourage that.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Director Clements.
    Chair Durbin. Senator from Vermont.
    Senator Welch. Thank you very much. You seem pretty 
friendly with Senator Whitehouse, and you may want to keep that 
on the down low. All right.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Clements. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Welch. You know, this is an incredibly popular 
program. And I think that's one of the reasons there's really 
never been a review of it. Every single one of our communities 
across the country really reveres our local police departments 
and in the public safety function that they perform. Even as 
there's challenges obviously from department to department.
    And I know in Vermont we're enormously grateful. The grants 
that we've received have essentially gone into technology and 
have allowed for a much more robust communication system, 
which, as you well know, is really essential to the 
coordination of public safety responses.
    So, we're there on that. The questions that are coming up 
and I share is not so much a skepticism about the program 
because we're all, I think, supportive of (a) the program and 
perhaps, (b) increasing funding for it. But the basic 
proposition that any program, whether it's food stamps or the 
Pentagon or public safety we ought to take--kick the tires and 
make sure that we're getting the taxpayers value. That's 
really, I think, the point of this.
    So, I totally support scrutiny across the board when it 
comes to taxpayer dollars. And the question that seems to be 
coming up is your limited in what you do. You get applications, 
you review them, they have to check certain boxes to make 
certain that it fits within the category. But you're not an 
investigative body, as you said.
    Yet, on the other hand there's a real relationship with the 
Department of Justice that can be an investigative body. And, 
you know, we do have in examples of departments like in 
Memphis, the Scorpion Program, where there was a lot of money 
that came from COPS. And whether that was directly related to 
Scorpion or not, we don't know to a San Bernardino when a poor 
hostage got shot.
    And there's a number of instances where there's legitimate 
questions, about what were the practices. So, I guess the 
question I have is whether it makes sense and it may require 
some additional authorization here, or coordination with other 
elements of the Department of Justice for the COPS Program to 
have a capacity to look back.
    Did this department that where something significant 
happened, like in Memphis or San Bernardino, is there something 
we should look at that was facilitated by the COPS Program 
where action should be taken? Or should we look ahead?
    You know, there's been an emphasis on community policing 
which takes an enormous amount of effort and engagement with 
the police departments. But should that be part of a 
consideration that is in the application.
    And then finally there's best policing practices. Those are 
always evolving. You've been in law enforcement for a long 
time, and I'm sure things are different today than when you 
first started. So bottom line here does it make sense for the 
benefit of public safety to have your office have the capacity 
or in coordination with elements of the Department of Justice 
to look back, to look ahead, and also to promote through the 
grant process best practices within our police departments 
across the country?
    Mr. Clements. Thank you, Senator. And first and foremost, 
as a foundation, I want to say that, you know, the men and 
women who work in the COPS Office, they are passionate, 
compassionate about the work they deliver to communities and 
law enforcement agencies, but probably more importantly, to 
communities.
    We want to be the best fiscal stewards of the taxpayer 
dollar. And I'll say that. And another thing I'll say is look, 
going around the country, including in Vermont, I know many 
from my previous employee and know even more now, there are 
some tremendous law enforcement executives, who--in where I 
came from, has been part of my pedigree--it's about 
transparency. It's about are we achieving the mission that we 
really want to in the community?
    So, I understand again, there are other agencies that 
perform that investigative type work. The mandate that we've 
had from Congress, we have complied with, with that 10 percent. 
We've exceeded that number each and every year. In my time 
here, it's only--I've only been here 1 year. We certainly 
exceeded that, and we'll continue to, but I understand and we 
want to be the best fiscal stewards of the taxpayer dollar that 
we can.
    Senator Welch. But elaborate a little bit on the part of 
being the best steward, is not just to make sure that the 
dollars were properly spent, it's about best practices. It's 
about improving the quality of our public safety situation. So 
that's where I'm asking about look back, look forward best 
practices?
    Mr. Clements. Agreed. And I think, you know, we try 
consciously to put that out around the country because there 
is--there are some great practices around the country. There is 
a community of practice on a particular issue that we try to 
lift up in both future training and in our publications, 
because there are like problems depending on the variations of 
departments we have around the country, small, mid-size or 
large. But we want to be able to give guidance and those best 
practices to agencies around the country on a particular area, 
whether it's de-escalation, crisis intervention, recruitment, 
retention. It's important.
    I will be the forever eternal optimist that this profession 
gets to a strong point in lifting up exactly what you are 
talking about, these best practices around the country. And I 
think in my time here, that's my commitment to use that to our 
advantage.
    Senator Welch. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you.
    Mr. Clements. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator. And thank you Mr. 
Clements. Let me just--I'd like to make two observations and 
the first is to thank you. You have been candid and direct in 
responding to the questions. You've been honest.
    You've been you've said things so honestly that I think 
it's kind of stunned the Members of the Committee that you gave 
a straight answer on a lot of things. It speaks well of you and 
your operation at the COPS Program.
    I can remember--and this program was created under 
President Clinton and the popularity of the program, I think a 
fellow by the name of Biden was in the Senate at the time and 
took great pride, great pride in this program and still does, 
I'm sure.
    So, thank you for continuing that tradition. Now, what I'm 
about to say has nothing to do with the COPS agency, but it 
does have something to do with questions and statements that 
we've heard this morning.
    This notion of politicians being soft on crime. I would 
like to put into the record the event of January 6, 2021, when 
an insurrectionist mob left a White House rally to come to 
Capitol Hill. And they proceeded to break laws, break windows, 
break doors down, and engage in conduct, which was disgusting.
    I was here, most of us saw it firsthand. It's been my good 
fortune in my adult life to spend most of my time on this 
Capital Complex. And I love this Capital Complex and this 
building. I think it speaks to our Nation and what we stand 
for. It was desecrated on January 6, and as a result of that, 
there was a criminal investigation.
    And more than a thousand individuals were charged with 
crimes as a result of that insurrectionist effort. What was 
even worse was that five policemen gave their lives in the 
process of it. And 140 were seriously injured. We're not making 
that up because we see the video. We saw what happened.
    And now to have members of the political party that 
inspired that insurrectionist mob through the White House tell 
us that these individuals are somehow patriots, hostages, 
should be released from jail for what they did. I'm sorry, I 
don't see it that way. That is soft on crime to the extreme, to 
ignore what they did to our Capital building and endanger the 
lives of policemen and individuals who were here doing their 
job.
    I just want to make that for the record. They selectively 
pick areas that were soft on crime, but they ignore what 
happened January 6 and the reaction of a candidate for 
President to that event.
    Having said that, I thank you for your statement today and 
appearance before the Committee. We're going to have statements 
entered into the record without objection by the Fraternal 
Order of Police, National Association of Police Officers, and 
AFSCME.
    There's no further business to come before the Senate. The 
Senate Judiciary Committee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:47 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
    [Additional material submitted for the record follows.]

                            A P P E N D I X

Submitted by Chair Durbin:

 American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees 
    (AFSCME), COPS Oversight, letter..............................   141

 National Association of Police Organizations, Inc. (NAPO), 
    Supports Fully Funding the COPS Program, letter...............   142

 National Fraternal Order of Police (FOP), Strong Support of the 
    COPS Program, letter..........................................   144

 Rausch, David, COPS Program Reauthorization Act, statement.......   145


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