    [Senate Hearing 118-674]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                            S. Hrg. 118-674

                           OVERSIGHT OF THE COMMUNITY
                           ORIENTED POLICING SERVICES
                              (COPS) GRANT PROGRAM

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   before the

                           COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                        ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION

                                   __________

                                 APRIL 10, 2024

                                   __________

                              Serial No. J-118-61

                                   __________

             Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary

                     [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                            www.judiciary.senate.gov
                                www.govinfo.gov

                                   ______

                     U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

    60-632                    WASHINGTON : 2025

                           COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                       RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois, Chair

    SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island     LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina,
    AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota                 Ranking Member
    CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware       CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa
    RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      JOHN CORNYN, Texas
    MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              MICHAEL S. LEE, Utah
    CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey           TED CRUZ, Texas
    ALEX PADILLA, California             JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
    JON OSSOFF, Georgia                  TOM COTTON, Arkansas
    PETER WELCH, Vermont                 JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
    LAPHONZA BUTLER, California          THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
                                         MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee

                     Joseph Zogby, Majority Staff Director
                    Katherine Nikas, Minority Staff Director

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                               OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                       Page

    Durbin, Hon. Richard J...........................................     1
    Graham, Hon. Lindsey O...........................................     3

                                   WITNESSES

    Clements, Tony T.................................................     3
        Prepared statement...........................................    34
        Responses to written questions...............................    43

                                    APPENDIX

    Items submitted for the record...................................    33

                           OVERSIGHT OF THE COMMUNITY
                           ORIENTED POLICING SERVICES
                              (COPS) GRANT PROGRAM
                                 GRANT PROGRAM

                                  ----------

                           WEDNESDAY, APRIL 10, 2024

                                  United States Senate,
                                    Committee on the Judiciary,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to notice at 10 a.m., in Room
    G50, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Richard J. Durbin,
    Chair of the Committee, presiding.
        Present: Senators Durbin [presiding], Whitehouse,
    Klobuchar, Coons, Hirono, Booker, Padilla, Ossoff, Welch,
    Butler, Graham, Grassley, Tillis, and Blackburn.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD J. DURBIN,
               A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

        Chair Durbin. This meeting of the Senate Judiciary
    Committee will come to order. My colleague, Senator Graham is a
    few minutes late, but he's told me to go ahead and get started.
    He'll join us shortly.
        In 1994, President Bill Clinton and a Democratic-led
    Congress established a new grant program at the Department of
    Justice for Community Oriented Policing Services. Three decades
    later, the COPS Program has become a fixture of America's
    criminal justice system.
        According to the Department of Justice, Congress has
    appropriated over $20 billion for COP grants since the program
    was created in 1994. This is the first ever first ever full
    Committee Oversight hearing on the COPS Program.
        It's an example of our continued commitment to revitalizing
    this Committee's oversight role. The COPS Office was created to
    advance the vision of community policing, and build trust
    between law enforcement and the American people. By many
    metrics, the program is realizing its goal.
        As a result of COPS funding, over 135,000 police officers
    have been hired and placed on the beat at the State and local
    level. COPS funding for law enforcement training has improved
    the effectiveness of our police. The COPS Office PASS Grants
    have provided funds for scenario-based training to prepare
    officers to safely and effectively manage active shooter events
    and other violent threats.
        This year, the COPS Office will begin providing funding for
    de-escalation training for local law enforcement. This is
    thanks to the Law Enforcement De-escalation Training Act, a
    bipartisan legislation sponsored by Senators Cornyn and Coons,
    that this Committee approved and President Biden signed.
        We've also authorized the COPS Office to provide grants for
    mental health services for our officers, recognizing that law
    enforcement is indeed a very stressful job and takes its toll
    on many officers.
        Last year, this Committee advanced legislation to allow
    COPS Grants to be used to recruit and retain new officers, and
    to provide training for those who will serve in communities
    where they live.
        These bills passed the Senate unanimously, now awaiting
    passage in the House. I hope Speaker Johnson will move these
    bills quickly. Contrary to many claims, political claims that
    are not true, Democrats do not support defunding the police.
        The Senate has consistently supported the COPS Program with
    new appropriations, including over $600 million this fiscal
    year. There are countless examples of police officers who've
    acted heroically, risking their lives in some instances, giving
    their lives in response to an emergency, and they've saved the
    lives of many innocent people in the process.
        There are far too many examples of officers who've
    tragically lost their own lives in the process. We are grateful
    more than we can say in words for their service and sacrifice.
    We must also acknowledge the breakdown in trust between law
    officers and some of the communities they serve. That is a
    reality.
        I called last year for a national conversation about
    policing in a responsible, constitutional and humane way. I
    still believe that conversation is urgently needed. Our
    communities deserve real transparency in policing and real
    accountability for misconduct.
        Proposals for more comprehensive reforms to policing such
    as the George Floyd Justice and Policing Act have also been
    made. We need to pass these reforms to fully repair the
    relationship between law enforcement and the communities they
    serve,
        And we can do more to leverage the expertise and capacity
    of the COPS Office to advance community-oriented policing that
    serves and protects us. I look forward to hearing from the
    director of the COPS Office today about how we can support law
    enforcement in their quest to expand community-based policing.
        I'm going to recognize Senator Graham when he arrives, but
    let me introduce our witness that's joined us today. Hugh T.
    Clements, I welcome you. Mr. Clements serves as director of the
    COPS Office. He joined the office last year after nearly 40
    years of service as a police officer in Providence, Rhode
    Island. Mr. Clements started his career as a patrol officer,
    rose through the ranks to serve as chief of the department from
    2012 to 2023.
        He holds a bachelor of arts degree in sociology from the
    University of Rhode Island, a bachelor of science degree in
    administration of justice from Roger Williams University, and a
    Master's of Science degree in Criminal Justice from Boston
    University.
        Before I swear him in, I recognized my colleague, if you're
    ready, Senator Graham.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LINDSEY O. GRAHAM,
            A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA

        Senator Graham. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I look forward to
    the hearing today. The COPS Program, I think, it's been very
    valuable tool, and I look forward to receiving the information
    about how we can make it better.
        Crime is related to fentanyl and other type drugs that are
    sort of at an all-time high, and we need to make sure we're
    doing everything we can to help police officers and departments
    all over the country to deal with that. Thank you.
        Chair Durbin. Mr. Clements, if you could please stand up
    and raise your right hand.
        [Witness is sworn in.]
        Chair Durbin. Let the record reflect that you answered in
    the affirmative and now welcome any opening statement.
        Mr. Clements. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

                STATEMENT OF HUGH T. CLEMENTS, DIRECTOR,

            OFFICE OF COMMUNITY ORIENTED POLICING SERVICES
                     (COPS OFFICE), WASHINGTON, DC

        Mr. Clements. Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member Graham and
    Members of the Committee, thank you for this opportunity to
    discuss the oversight of the Office of Community Oriented
    Policing Services, better known as the COPS Office.
        My name is Hugh T. Clements Jr., and I'm the director of
    the COPS Office. I joined the office in January of last year
    after nearly 40 years with the Providence Rhode Island Police
    Department. I started as a night patrol officer with the
    Uniform Division. Worked in both special investigations and the
    detective bureau, served as deputy chief, and in 2012 was
    appointed chief and promoted to the rank of colonel.
        Over its nearly 30-year history, the COPS Office has
    received bipartisan support as it implements the priorities of
    the attorney general and Congress. Helping law enforcement
    advance community policing practices is at the core of
    everything we do. Our mission is and remains the advancement of
    public safety through community policing. To date, we have
    provided grants to more than 13,000 small, medium, and large
    State, local and tribal law enforcement agencies to reduce
    crime by advancing community policing. We're not only a grant-
    making component, but we also provide resources and assistance
    to help law enforcement agencies in the communities they serve,
    no matter the size or location.
        During my testimony this morning, I want to talk about our
    grant funding, the technical assistance resources, and
    materials we have for law enforcement, and how we ensure the
    fidelity to the taxpayer dollar. COPS Office Community Policing
    Development funds are used to develop the capacity of law
    enforcement to implement community policing strategies by
    providing guidance on promising practices and supporting
    creative approaches to preventing crime and promoting safe
    communities.
        Topic areas include enhancing de-escalation training,
    advancing crisis intervention teams, expanding law enforcement
    accreditation, and providing microgrants to fund innovative
    community policing projects at the local level.
        The COPS Hiring Program, CHP, is the office's flagship
    program and is designed to reduce crime and advance public
    safety through community policing. CHP funding provides direct
    support to State, local, and tribal law enforcement agencies
    nationwide to hire career law enforcement officers, to increase
    in the agency's community policing capacity and crime
    prevention efforts. We monitor all COPS grants to ensure
    fidelity to the taxpayer.
        Each grant we award requires quarterly federal financial
    and semi-annual performance progress reports. We review these
    reports on an annual and ongoing basis. This allows the office
    a means of oversight and early detection to troubleshoot any
    potential compliance concerns.
        The COPS Office had approximately $1.34 billion in active
    awards in Fiscal Year 2023. We conduct routine monitoring of
    100 percent of our grant funding and conduct intensive
    monitoring on no less than 10 percent of the active award
    funding amount each fiscal year.
        In Fiscal Year 2023, COPS monitoring encompass grants
    totaling $139.2 million. While not every law enforcement agency
    will receive a grant from the COPS Office in any given year,
    every agency in the country has access to our knowledge
    resources, training, and technical assistance free of charge.
    The COPS training portal provides a no-cost means for entire
    law enforcement organizations, training academies in individual
    officers to access high quality and engaging community policing
    training materials. Thank you for this opportunity.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Clements appears as a
    submission for the record.]
        Chair Durbin. Mr. Clements, I'm going to ask a few
    questions and the other Members will have that opportunity too.
    When I dial 911, if God forbid I'm in that position, I pray to
    God that the person who responds has been carefully recruited,
    had been carefully trained, and is ready to come to the aid of
    my family as quickly as possible. I'm counting on that, and I
    think every American is counting on that no matter where they
    live.
        And so, the question obviously is the COPS Program make
    that likelihood better or not? Are we investing our money in a
    way that makes a difference? You've been a real cop starting
    patrolling the beat and working your way up at chief of the
    department. Did you see any measurable impact of COP--Federal
    COP funds on your performance in your police department?
        Mr. Clements. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The funding from the
    Federal Government and the funding in particular from the COPS
    Office absolutely has been invaluable from where I came from. I
    will tell you that police officers have a tough assignment in
    our communities.
        Basically, the mission is the same in all municipalities to
    reduce crime, fear, and social disorder, protecting
    constitutional rights, protecting human rights. It's a
    complicated assignment, that police officers have. The value
    that the COPS Office has provided to me when I was boots on the
    ground prior to my elevation to leadership roles in the
    department. And then after my elevation to those roles,
    particularly as chief, has been very helpful in building
    community partnerships and driving at problem solving in the
    community.
        So, it's the connection in the community where the COPS
    Office has given guidance and valuable resources in the terms
    of grant funding, training and technical assistance, and as
    well throughout publications and resources.
        Chair Durbin. Thank you. Let me get down to the hard issues
    because I know that we're going to reach them and the
    questioning from Members. There's no question that the United
    States still struggles with the issue of race, still struggles
    with the issue of immigrants and how they're to be treated by
    our official agencies of Government and certainly how they're
    treated on the streets and neighborhoods of this country on a
    regular basis.
        We've seen some outrageous examples. George Floyd comes to
    mind immediately, and we've heard rhetoric from some political
    figures who are branding immigrants, as not even humans, but
    calling them animals. And that sort of rhetoric and that sort
    of conduct really puts special pressure on the police. Can you
    tell me if the COPS Program addresses this in any way?
        Mr. Clements. Thank you, Chairman. It certainly does in all
    of our programs, but specifically in the CHP, the COPS Hiring
    Program, the Flagship Program. There is extra consideration for
    agencies and law enforcement executives who have a strong
    implementation plan, hand in hand with their community members
    to drive our trust and legitimacy in their neighborhoods.
        Again, I think all of the work we do in policing around the
    country is stronger and more valuable and has real impact in
    communities around this country when conversations ignite ideas
    and the message police leaders are given from their community
    are community informed.
        And then the message that police leaders give to their rank
    and file and their partners--law enforcement partners are
    community driven.
        So, community informed and community driven approaches to
    the real problems in a community. You know, the--in essence,
    police officers around this country and police agencies are
    looking to improve the quality of life, and that is done
    through problem-solving techniques.
        Chair Durbin. Mr. Clements on four or five different
    occasions, I put up a notice at the Police Training Academy in
    Chicago that I'm going to be sitting in a classroom for an hour
    and invite any member of the police force from that community
    who wants to come in for an off the record, no holds barred
    conversation to come on down, and they show up.
        I'm amazed to see a politician, for goodness sakes, because
    they want to get something off their chest. They want to tell
    their side of the story, they want me to understand what it
    means to wear that shield and to risk your life out on the
    streets on a daily basis.
        And how you have to make momentary, you know, just a few
    seconds of judgment. It could be life or death judgment for
    yourself, for innocent people around you or for the victim. And
    how tough that is, and how they think it's unfair that
    sometimes there are clips taken from videos that don't tell the
    whole story and they want the whole story told. Do you deal
    with that--have you dealt with that in your capacity as a chief
    and with the COPS Program?
        Mr. Clements. So, throughout my career, going to roll
    calls, being the leader of a large organization, and now in my
    role as the director of the COPS Office, yes, absolutely, Mr.
    Chairman, and thank you for identifying that.
        It is an extremely challenging role to be a police officer
    in American streets today. I mean, it's oftentimes, you know,
    police officers are sent to a situation with little or
    ambiguous information. They never know what hat they're putting
    on as they arrive on a scene, whether it's a rescue hat or a
    tactical hat.
        And it's a complex profession, and I think the training
    that you referred to was critical to giving police the
    confidence to go out there and perform this very challenging
    tough assignment on American streets.
        Chair Durbin. Thank you, Mr. Clements. Senator Graham.
        Senator Graham. Yes. Thank you very much Mr. Clements. This
    program has not been reauthorized since 2009, it's been funded,
    but not reauthorized. Would reauthorization help you, believe
    it?
        Mr. Clements. It would help the Department of Justice. It
    would help agencies around the country. In my role in as
    director of the COPS Office, I'm very connected to the law
    enforcement community and communities around this country. I
    can tell you, we get visits routinely. It's almost like it----
        Senator Graham. It would help.
        Mr. Clements. Significantly.
        Senator Graham. Okay. What I'd like you to do is send to
    the Committee, me or the Chairman or both of us, what you would
    like to see changed in the program to make it more efficient if
    we did reauthorize it. You know, I'm sure a lot has changed
    since 2009. You are in charge of anti-heroin, anti-meth
    programs under the current construct. I would certainly like to
    put Fentanyl in that group. Does that make sense? Given the
    problems we have with Fentanyl.
        Mr. Clements. It's a critical issue in communities around
    this country. Small, rural large, mid-size. So yes, Mr.
    Senator, I promise members of my office will provide that
    information.
        Senator Graham. Okay. I appreciate it. Let's talk about
    billing on what Senator Durham said about being a police
    officer. During your time as a police officer, would you agree
    this is one of the more challenging periods for the men and
    women in blue?
        Mr. Clements. Without question.
        Senator Graham. Has recruitment been affected by some of
    these challenges?
        Mr. Clements. Recruitment and retention has reached crisis
    levels in agencies, small and large around the country.
        Senator Graham. Yes. So, let's just dig into that a little
    bit. Recruitment and retention has reached a crisis level
    throughout the--I couldn't agree with you more. One of the
    things about the COPS Program, maybe if we reauthorize it, we
    could focus on that a bit.
        So, we want to recruit and retain qualified people who wear
    the badge well. How you engage minority community is very
    important. We want to make sure that people feel like the cops
    are fair and on everybody's side.
        Do you hear much when you talk to police officers about
    sort of a catch and release mentality in some districts in this
    country, that you'll grab a guy or bad person and by sundown
    they back out on the street? Is that a problem you hear much
    about?
        Mr. Clements. So, Senator, yes. I travel around the country
    to major stakeholder groups in law enforcement, in the
    communities. And that's a local issue in our communities around
    this country. And from my vantage point and my bully pulpit as
    the director of the COPS Office, and we want to be able to give
    these local agencies the resources they need to combat those
    issues.
        Senator Graham. But, right, it only works if the person on
    the prosecution end actually follows through, right?
        Mr. Clements. Correct.
        Senator Graham. You can arrest all day. You just need
    somebody to take it to the next level.
        Mr. Clements. And again, we want to be able to give these
    agencies, police executives, and officers out there on the
    street doing the job, the resources, to get those--it's
    generally a small number of individuals in each community
    causing the vast amount of violent crime.
        Senator Graham. Yes. We found that to be true and so--I'm
    sure you watched the video of a group of people attacking two
    New York police officers who had been in the system many times
    and got out. Does that take a toll over time?
        Mr. Clements. It does, and it's, as you alluded to in the
    beginning, it's a pivotal moment in the profession. It
    absolutely takes a toll on retention. I think in going around
    the country, the larger organizations that I spoke to have more
    of a retention issue than a recruiting issue, it does take a
    toll, and----
        Senator Graham. You seem to be the right guy at the right
    time. And I'm a Republican, and, you know, our folks focus on
    the Laken Riley case, and, you know, a system is completely
    broken and allows folks to get in the country, unvetted, that
    should never have been here to begin with, but we got to fix
    it. We just can't complain about it.
        We have to empower people like you. I think I'd like to
    reauthorize the program to give you more tools. Life has
    changed since 2009. So, Mr. Chairman, let's see if this
    Committee can come up with a reauthorization bill that would
    give this gentleman more tools, more resources, reinvent the
    program in light of where we're at in 2024, that'd be a worthy
    endeavor. And count me.
        And I think most of my Republican colleagues support the
    COPS Program. We'd like to modernize it, and we'd like to make
    sure that the men and women in blue do not feel so let down.
    That needs to change. And I'd like to part of the process of
    changing that. Thank you.
        Chair Durbin. Senator Graham caught me in.
        Senator Graham. Great.
        Chair Durbin. I want to thank Senator Booker for coming
    early and positioning himself to be the next person recognized.
    Senator Booker.
        Senator Booker. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, this is long, as
    you said, overdue, years overdue hearing. The COPS Program was
    vital to my city when I was mayor of the city. I don't know how
    we would have survived in our mission without it. My police
    officers that I almost literally lived with during my days, are
    some of the most heroic people I have ever seen.
        I am proud that under the Biden administration, we have not
    just continued to fund the COPS Program, but have funded it at
    historic levels. I have some concerns. And the first one is
    sort of a stunning to me, sir. I've looked at your record. You
    are an extraordinary public safety official. Your record in
    your State and your leadership was incredible. But something
    happened, and I remind you we're under oath. But did you say
    that you would not show up to this hearing if we had another
    panel focused on the community?
        Mr. Clements. I never said that.
        Senator Booker. Again, and maybe we need to clarify. You're
    not aware of your office asking for us not to have a second
    panel dealing with community issues?
        Mr. Clements. I am not aware of that, Senator.
        Senator Booker. I find that surprising, given what I've
    heard, and frankly, the things I've heard from your office this
    last couple weeks have been extraordinarily frustrating. I'm
    trying not to take them personally. I'm just one Senator.
        From what I've heard, you don't give a damn what I think.
    But I will tell you this, the work and the obligations that you
    have are critical. And what does the C stand for in the COPS
    Program?
        Mr. Clements. Community.
        Senator Booker. Right. And, do you think under oath that it
    would be probably really important that this Committee have a
    panel hearing from community stakeholders about this program?
        Mr. Clements. I do. And I thought that was the case. And,
    and I couldn't agree more with you, Senator, that C is in the
    word COPS because community are part of policing and the word
    public is in public safety for that reason as well.
        Senator Booker. And, you know, from your experience, and
    again, everything I review we're an extraordinary public safety
    official with a career to be really proud of.
        Mr. Clements. Thank you, sir.
        Senator Booker. And, yet, right now, my concern is with a
    program I support that I want to see reauthorized, that I'm
    grateful to hear Lindsey Graham talk about modernizing the
    program. The frustrations I've had over the last week with your
    office is just understanding what metrics you keep.
        Now, you were a leader of police force. I lead a city. Data
    transparency, accountability, the sophistication of your
    metrics is vital for public safety, is it not?
        Mr. Clements. It is, and Senator, I want to stress the
    importance of you getting the information and data you need.
        Senator Booker. Sir, I'm glad you're saying this right now
    under oath. But, Democratic Republican Presidents, I haven't
    had the kind of frustrations and heard the things I've heard
    from agencies like I have over yours, the last couple of weeks.
    You talk about deconfliction grants. What data do you collect
    to see if those grants are effective?
        Mr. Clements. So there have been many researchers and
    studies done over the years. I came into this assignment in
    January 23, but I----
        Senator Booker. So in the last year and quarter in your
    organization is a guy who understands leadership. And I know
    this from looking at your record, the importance of collecting
    data and having public transparency.
        Does your office collect data when it comes to the deep
    confliction grants you have, about use of force, about civilian
    complaints, about incidents of misconduct? Do you look at the
    before and after of the grants that you're giving out, critical
    data that would help us understand if the millions of dollars
    we're putting--hundreds of millions of dollars putting into
    this program are actually effective?
        Mr. Clements. So, Senator, we do have quarterly and semi-
    annual financial progress reports--progress reports from these
    agencies that we review on a routine basis throughout that
    year, throughout the grant period. We are not an investigative
    agency.
        Senator Booker. No, you're not. But you're giving out
    grants that have specific ends, and you've given Congress no
    transparency, no data to understand whether the money we're
    investing is producing the results. The, the information I have
    been able to get, from your office of public information says
    that you barely do 10 percent of reviews of the grantees that
    get the resources.
        That you're barely collecting the kind of data on the
    various mission of your organization. That would give us some
    kind of clarification if we're making investments that are
    reaping results. I agree with Senator Graham, we need to
    modernize the collection of data, because in the last 2 weeks,
    I have been utterly frustrated to understand what your office
    is doing besides counting the numbers of police officers that
    are hired with the grants, which is vital and why I support
    this program, why I have voted for it's historic funding.
        But as two men who have been responsible for the safety of
    our communities and understand the urgency and importance of
    connections to community, of building trust between law
    enforcement and community. I know that transparency matters,
    and I know that accountability matters.
        Your not to manage these departments you give grants to,
    but you have an obligation for the taxpayer money that you're
    giving out to make sure it's making some progress toward its
    mission. This is to me, vital for the success of this program.
        And sir, it's vital for me because as great as my police
    department is, and as much as the change they've made, I still
    live in a Black and brown community where the number one issue
    in my community is public safety. Where I still--even as a
    result of the last year, have shootings in my community where
    my family lives. And so, I know what drives change, as do you,
    because I've read everything I can about your career.
        When you were in law enforcement, you demanded
    transparency, you demanded data, you demanded accountability,
    you demanded real methods to build community trust. Why now do
    we have an agency like yours that doesn't collect the most
    basic things that we would need to inform a reauthorization of
    this program? And I think Mr. Chairman, my time is up, but we
    need to put in this grant things that will modernize this
    program so we have more transparency and accountability for the
    money we're giving out. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chair Durbin. Senator Tillis.
        Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Clements,
    thank you for being here.
        Mr. Clements. Thank you, Senator.
        Senator Tillis. I do think it would be helpful to, if you
    parse through some of what Senator Booker said there--for the
    record, you could present information on how you're tracking
    the progress of the program. I think that would be helpful. My
    guess is that you would've, people in your organization that
    could provide satisfactory answers for a lot of the questions
    that were raised.
        [Poster is displayed.]
        I want to talk about an investment that I think we just--I
    never missed an opportunity to bring this up because it's still
    out there. I just did a search again on ActBlue. ActBlue is the
    aggregation engine for my colleagues on the Democratic--for the
    other side of the aisle. We have WinRed. So, we all have
    fundraising platforms to get low dollar donors.
        You know what bothers me about this one? In spite of the
    number of times that I've talked about this in this hearing,
    it's still up there. Black Lives Matter wants you to run 13.12
    miles. You know why? Because 1 3 1 2 translates into ACAB,
    which translates into all cops are bastards that is still on
    their website.
        We're coming in here questioning their motives. When we've
    got people out there raising money, telling people to run
    around police departments, run through those communities and
    treat police officers like they're the criminals, excuse me,
    versus the heroes that I think they are.
        So, my colleagues who use ActBlue to raise money, fine. I
    use WinRed, would you please tell them to get this garbage off
    their website and calling all cops bastards. Now, how's morale?
        Mr. Clements. Certainly, in traveling around the country to
    major stakeholder groups. In many agencies police officers do
    feel demoralized.
        Senator Tillis. How's recruiting?
        Mr. Clements. Recruiting is difficult, and----
        Senator Tillis. How are retirements?
        Mr. Clements. Our retention is an issue.
        Senator Tillis. Right. How many major police offices have a
    shortage of officers that are out on the beat today?
        Mr. Clements. Many.
        Senator Tillis. Yes. Is it getting better?
        Mr. Clements. It is getting better.
        Senator Tillis. Why?
        Mr. Clements. I mean we were asked--we were asked to run
    the--with the bully pulpit of this office, a convening session
    by the attorney general Merrick Allen, to give guidance and
    practical advice to agencies around the country, small, mid-
    size and large, about how they can enhance their opportunities
    to recruit and retain officers in the field.
        And that guidance is practical. It's very good advice. And
    I think we're starting to see a little bit the light at the end
    of the tunnel in that area.
        Senator Tillis. How can we be helpful?
        Mr. Clements. So, look, I mean, it's always about--the work
    we do is about community--criminal enforcement and community
    engagement. And this Committee can be helpful with continuing
    to fund the COPS Office.
        I can tell you, in traveling around the country, not only
    police groups--major police groups who are the tip of the spear
    in reform around this country, and we are too, that what we can
    do is continue to fund COPS Hiring Programs or continue to fund
    programs that drive at violent crime. Continue to fund programs
    that drive at building trust in legitimacy, in communities, and
    building relationships.
        Because the data all shows that advancing public safety
    through community policing absolutely drives to better
    statistics in relationships, number one and number two, in
    bringing crime down. And I lived it, I was a police officer 38
    years. And I can tell you in my time as chief, if you were to
    tell me prior to my arrival that if we cut arrest in half that
    we would have less crime. I may not have believed that in the
    beginning, but that's exactly what we did.
        Through community policing programs, we were able to cut
    arrests and to cut crime.
        Senator Tillis. I'm a big believer in it, and particularly
    in the more at-risk communities. I think that it's--you know
    Senator Booker was referring to Black and brown communities and
    in New Jersey, but I've actually seen very successful programs
    when police officers are embedded in community building trust
    in Black and brown communities.
        We need more of it. We need the resources to make sure that
    you can do that. I think it makes communities safer. It makes
    minorities more likely to trust police officers, engage with
    them. I've seen that with illegally present people. Community
    policing lets them feel comfortable as they're being exploited.
    And these communities of color.
        You know, Mr. Chair, I don't often get angry, and I'm not
    going to go over time, but I have to say that this is a chance
    for my colleagues to put to bed this idea that even some--to
    say all cops are bastards is just really angering to me. And
    that's what they say.
        [Poster is displayed.]
        So please, before the next hearing that we have, please
    tell me that somebody on this Committee or in the Senate will
    go to ActBlue and say, this is not helpful. And as a matter of
    fact, this sort of activity, this sort of message, makes the
    very Black and brown communities that we want to make safer,
    less safe. Thank you, Mr. Clements.
        Chair Durbin. Mr. Clement, for the record does your agency
    have anything to do with ActBlue?
        Mr. Clements. No.
        Chair Durbin. No, I'm sorry. I didn't hear you.
        Mr. Clements. No. No, sir.
        Chair Durbin. I don't either. I know that the Senator's
    upset about this situation.
        Senator Tillis. Well, Mr. Chair, it's only--it's a matter
    of record. I could go through and provide for the purposes of
    the Committee, if we want to report back on fundraising efforts
    where ActBlue was used for Members of the Senate. I'd be happy
    to do that. I'm not trying to do that. I'm trying to end this
    objectionable practice by a platform that should exist. This
    should not be a part of you all's brand.
        Chair Durbin. I don't believe the COPS program is
    responsible for that. Senator Klobuchar.
        Senator Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Senator Durbin.
    Thank you very much Director Clements for being here. I have
    one focus today and that is to get this bill done. And I
    appreciate that Chair Durbin has called this hearing so we can
    talk about oversight. And I appreciate the information and the
    information that I know will be forthcoming in answer to some
    of the questions.
        But enough is enough. A year ago for COPS Week, we passed
    amendments to the program, and we still have not marked up this
    program. Despite having Ranking Member Graham supporting the
    bills, Senator Tillis, Senator Coons, many other have stated
    their support. It is long overdue.
        Yes, we get appropriations year after year. That's why
    you're in business when we'll give to your good work in what
    you are doing. But at some point, we have to actually
    reauthorize this program and make very clear where we stand.
    The communities in my State, listen, I am supportive of Senator
    Booker's efforts on reform. A number of pieces of legislation,
    as you know, have passed in States across the country and in
    cities and the like. And it's very important.
        I come from a State where George Floyd was murdered, but at
    the same time, what I am seeing right now is a lack of law
    enforcement in the very communities that we need to help the
    most. They want law enforcement. In my State, in the city of
    Minneapolis, they had a vote on defund. And it was the
    communities of color that opposed defunding the police because
    they understood that they needed the funding.
        This program that you oversee adds funding to help the
    police. I was reminded of how important this is at a funeral
    that I attended of Burnsville Police Officers, as you know, who
    were just murdered in cold blood, Paul Elmstrand, Matthew Ruge,
    as well as paramedic Adam Finseth.
        You know what they did? They were called to a scene in the
    middle of the night and they got seven kids out of a house in a
    horrible, chaotic situation. And then they were killed, and the
    paramedic was killed trying to rescue one of the police
    officers. They were heroes.
        So, I don't think for 1 minute we should forget the
    officers, every single day who go to work and put their own
    lives on the line. Reform. Yes. Accountability. Yes.
        But at some point, with the recruitment problems we're
    having, with the retention problems we're having, particularly
    in major cities in this country. We made on a bipartisan basis
    to stand with the program that does not involve increased
    criminal penalties. It has been a program for decades that had
    basically just said, we're going to help local communities to
    get some more police officers on the street and to bring down
    crime.
        Last year, nearly 400 different law enforcement officers
    relied on the COPS Grant Program to hire over 1,700 full-time
    law enforcement officers. And since its inception, the COPS
    Hiring Program has helped fund 138,000 law enforcement
    officers. So, my first question of you Director Clements, is
    can you speak of the severity of the ongoing recruitment and
    retention crisis nationally?
        Which, by the way, big time includes rural areas as people
    are poaching each other, they have no choice because less
    people are going into law enforcement. Could you talk about the
    ongoing recruitment retention crisis and how the COPS hiring
    grants are essential to keep these departments afloat?
        Mr. Clements. Thank you, Senator. And thank you for your
    continued support of the work that we do in the COPS Office.
    And this entire Committee, thank you for your support. It's
    invaluable to the field. And so, this convening session that we
    were tasked to run along with our colleagues on the OJP side,
    BJA, we ran that convening session that put out some very good
    practical guidance to municipal leaders and police leaders on
    how to beef up their recruitment efforts and how to sustain
    retaining officers who are in their communities.
        And we looked with a wide lens, from small and rural
    organizations to big, large cities like with tens of thousands
    of police officers. And, the guidance in that publication is
    invaluable. And I think it will lead to greater numbers going
    forward, including looking at it with a wide lens. Like looking
    at maybe take home cars for officers, maybe relocation costs,
    costs for the officers.
        Certainly, an issue is salary and benefits in updating
    their collective bargaining agreements in certain communities
    where, I mean, police officers want to work in a community
    where they're supported both by messaging and they want to work
    in an agency where they're supported by benefits and salaries
    for the difficult work they do in their communities.
        Senator Klobuchar. You speak to--there've been a number of
    studies that show having the police officers that are giving
    them tools and technology they need, the training, which we
    know based on some of these cases around the country is
    critical.
        Multiple studies demonstrate that investments in police
    department through the COPS Grant are associated with
    reductions in crime. Can you speak to how the evidence
    demonstrates that investing in law enforcement through COPS
    Grants reduces crime?
        Mr. Clements. So there have been several pieces of research
    and evaluations that have identified that. And I believe that,
    you know, and we certainly can forward all of them to this
    Committee--Members of this Committee and your staff. And I'll
    tell you, as far as the training we do in the COPS Office, it's
    a three-legged stool. It's grant so it's not only financial
    assistance to agencies around the country, but it's training
    and technical assistance.
        And probably most important are the publications and
    resources that we put out to agencies around the country. That
    has been a valuable tool, not only to police leaders, police
    agencies, but to communities.
        And at the end of providing all of these resources, we do
    surveys. And the data has been astounding, is to the value are
    received by police officers receiving that training and the
    feedback from communities has been strong.
        Senator Klobuchar. Very good. Senator Graham--now one last
    question here--Senator Graham asked you about fentanyl, and I
    have looked at this and I know that you have been able to use--
    without amending the program--that you've been able to use the
    Anti-Heroin Task Force--COPS Anti-Meth Program, toward
    investigations into fentanyl as well. Is that right?
        Mr. Clements. That is correct. So the anti-heroin, anti-
    methamphetamine, and it does include fentanyl as well, and it's
    harming to a significant degree communities around this
    country.
        Senator Klobuchar. Exactly. Okay. I want to thank you.
    Thanks, Senator Murkowski, for leading this bill with me, our
    Members who've been supportive. It's time to get it marked up.
        And I'll just end by, at that funeral service for those
    officers and that firefighter, the police chaplain spoke and he
    actually said, despite how difficult it is to be in policing
    right now, and given the solemn moment, we are at in this
    memorial service, it is still a career worth going into and
    asked young people to join the police force in the name of
    those three men.
        So that's what I carry with me, and that is what my mission
    is to get this bill done. Wall reform efforts continue to go on
    across the country. But all this bill is about is making sure
    these grants go out and getting the information from you, which
    I know that you have on the effect it has on reducing crime.
    The huge need right now we have for retention as well as any
    other information we need.
        I know you do a lot of collecting the information. I hope
    we can get it to the Members and we can go on and mark up this
    bill and just stop talking about it and stop saying how in
    supportive we are when we won't even vote for this basic
    federal program that has been working. So, let's stop amending
    it and start actually passing it.
        Chair Durbin. Senator Blackburn.
        Senator Blackburn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you
    so much for being with us today. I think each of us are
    concerned about the rise in violent crime we have seen in this
    country in the last few years, and here in DC, with the budget
    being cut, $15 million for the police force.
        And then you see this escalation rate we've all known of
    staffers and people that work on the hill that have had
    carjackings or muggings. Michael Gill who had worked for the
    Trump administration, was killed during a carjacking, and
    leaving his wife and his three children.
        So, I think you're probably with me and many of my
    colleagues that disagree with what has happened in defunding
    the police, and the causes that have been there and this rise
    in violent crime. And indeed, I'm from Tennessee, Memphis is a
    city that has seen a 42 percent increase in juvenile crime, and
    we are continuing to work with leaders there to address this
    issue.
        And Senator Cortez Masto and I have a bill, The AFTER
    SCHOOL Act, that would deal with that period of time from 3
    p.m. to 6 p.m., when localities need to have afterschool
    programs in high crime areas so that kids have somewhere to go,
    so they don't become associated with gangs.
        And we know that juvenile crime is plaguing a lot of our
    cities. So, I'd love to hear what you are doing to target that
    rise in juvenile crime?
        Mr. Clements. Thank you, Senator, for your support in
    identifying that. So, in communities around the country, there
    is concern with violent crime and it's localized. And I'll tell
    you that, that shows the value of the COPS Office. And hearing
    from chief executives of law enforcement after conversations
    with their communities--what is important in their communities.
        We know from the data recently released by the FBI from the
    2022 to 2023, which the violent crime is actually trending
    down. As well as a study done by the Major City Chiefs
    Association of the 69 cities that they represent. Violent crime
    is going down.
        But that means nothing to individuals in the community that
    are experiencing an increased level of carjackings, an
    increased level of violent crime. That is exactly where the
    value of the COPS Office is provided in listening to individual
    agencies is what is their biggest concern in how can the
    Federal Government, and how can the COPS Office be that force
    multiplier in assisting the local agency with not only funding
    grant dollars, but resources as well in the form of training
    and technical assistance.
        Senator Blackburn. Well, and dealing with these juvenile
    offenders and juvenile violent offenders is important. And I
    have done a bill Keep Violent Criminals Off The Street, that
    would deal with this cashless bail issue. I know in Memphis and
    Shelby County, one of the issues has been a soft on crime
    prosecutor, soft on crime judge and letting people go with no
    cash bail.
        And so, we have legislation that would keep them locked up
    and keep violent offenders, whether they're a juvenile or not
    off the streets. And I would love for you to talk for just a
    minute about this policy of cashless bail and the effect that
    is having on violent crime?
        Mr. Clements. So again, the mission of the COPS Office and
    the role that we play in the community is providing agencies,
    the resources they need to attack the criminal problems in
    their community. The funding that we have goes to the police
    leader, to the police agencies that has to have a plan, a
    comprehensive plan, an innovative plan.
        I will tell you that the needs far outpace the funding.
    There are many agencies that put in for the COPS grant. We just
    cannot support all of the agencies that apply. So, whether the
    local agency has an issue with their prosecution doesn't fall
    into play. What comes into play, is how they're going to
    address their particular crime problem, whether it's
    carjackings, an increase in retail theft, an increase in
    whatever violent crime.
        Senator Blackburn. Right. Yes. I realize that. But I think
    the overriding point is this, if you have movements like Defund
    the Police, if you have this rhetoric that is going on about
    disrespect the police. If you have officers retiring because of
    that. If you have officers that are frustrated, because they
    have prosecutors and judges that will not keep criminals locked
    up.
        Then that has the effect of producing results that the COPS
    Program then issues grants to try to deal with and, to address
    these problems that arise in these communities. I'm over time.
    Thank you for being here. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Clements. Thank you, Senator.
        Chair Durbin. Senator Coons.
        Senator Coons. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you
    Director Clements. Let me just start by making sure I heard you
    correctly. Violent crime across the country is down. Is that
    accurate? Is that based on FBI statistics?
        [Points at witness.]
        Mr. Clements. It's trending down, correct.
        Senator Coons. And it's been trending down over the last
    several years?
        Mr. Clements. No, just in--I'm not sure the exact--I
    believe it was 2022 to 2023. There was a huge uptick 2020 and
    2021.
        Senator Coons. The single largest federal investment in
    public safety and law enforcement was the American Rescue Plan.
    Is that correct?
        Mr. Clements. Correct.
        Senator Coons. And President Biden signed in the law of the
    Bipartisan Safer Communities Act, which was the most important
    gun safety bill in 30 years. I just--at the outset, one of the
    things I have a hard time with is a continued drumbeat that
    suggests that this administration is somehow for defunding the
    police, when in fact they have advanced funding proposals that
    are among the most significant in American history for the
    recruitment, the retaining, the retention, the training, and
    the deployment of police.
        I was a county executive in Newcastle County, Delaware. My
    predecessor in this seat now, our president was a co-author of
    the bill that created the COPS Program. And over three decades,
    it's deployed 20 billion in grants and helped hire 130,000
    officers in my county. Cops Grants were critical to our being
    able to keep, retain and train officers and get them on the
    street.
        And COPS grants have helped provide mental health services
    to officers, up-to-date training for how to deconflict, and how
    to reduce conflict, keeping kids in school safe and keeping
    small agencies fully staffed.
        Ahead of this hearing, I asked law enforcement officials in
    my State what COPS has meant to them. One police chief raved
    about the program saying he was only able to keep his force at
    strength and to meet the crime needs in his community because
    of this program.
        Another said that these are objectively difference making
    grants in our community. Despite some of the successes of this
    program, there are real challenges in recruitment and retention
    across the country. There are real challenges in public service
    of all kinds, at all levels, but in policing in particular.
        My Recruit and Retain Act, which I'm leading with Senator
    Fischer and which passed the Senate unanimously, would allow
    COPS Grants to support partnerships between law enforcement and
    schools to help create a stronger--a career pipeline, a hiring
    pipeline for students potentially interested in policing. And
    would allow COPS Grant funds to go to the overhead costs that
    come with administering and fully complying with COPS Grant
    Programs. In your experience, what are the strategies that have
    worked to create sustainable diverse recruitment pipelines for
    officers?
        Mr. Clements. So, the strategies that have worked on that
    front as the local community policing executives working with
    their community are using guidance from the federal level--I
    couldn't agree more. The Safer American Plan has dedicated a
    ton of necessary funding to this office to push out to agencies
    around the country. This year alone, we look to push out $1.3
    billion in awards with our colleagues and partners over in BJA
    on the Office of Justice program side.
        Important critical funding that you've identified from
    police leaders in your own State and again--so we need to be
    creative in how we recruit going forward, and maybe look at
    non-traditional type candidates. I think many agencies are
    going toward a testing format that identifies those particular
    individuals to make sure.
        And we did it, where I came from, to really diversify the
    force to ensure that we had a force that truly reflects the
    community. And one academy that we had graduated--a large
    academy--that spoke 14 different languages in a very diverse
    community. And its paid dividends, and it built capital in the
    community.
        Senator Coons. I'm familiar with Providence. My dad lived
    in Rhode Island for a number of years. It is a tough town. It's
    an incredible, great diverse town. And having a diverse police
    force that actually represents the communities being policed is
    critical to improving community police relations. Last
    question. Sometimes it's the smallest departments that most
    needs COPS grants, but most struggle to sustain them. The
    paperwork, the oversight, the compliance, and the sustainment.
    What can we do to balance that to help smaller departments
    navigate the recruitment opportunities that a COPS grant brings
    but also fully comply with the obligations of oversight and
    making sure that the commitment to auditing and to monitoring
    is fully met?
        Mr. Clements. Great question, Senator. And it has been a
    focus and commitment of this office over the years to move in
    that direction. There is on the COPS hiring side the COPS
    Hiring Grant, there is a stipulation mandated that 50 percent
    of the funding goes through agencies with a population of less
    than 150,000.
        And we've been very conscious on our side when awarding
    grants to ensure that we're spreading out the grants by States,
    and by type and variation of an agency. As we know, most of the
    police agencies in this country have less than 50 officers and
    a huge percentage has less than 20 officers.
        And they are oftentimes communities that are least
    financially able to add one officer in a department that has a
    composition of 8 or 10 is a huge lift. And we've been very
    conscious of that. And I think if you look at the data from our
    side, you'll see that we've done well in that arena and
    spreading it out to the small and rural.
        Senator Coons. Thank you, director. I look forward to
    finding a path forward. I'm a co-sponsor of this bill. I think
    we should reauthorize the COPS Program. I think we need to make
    sure that it is being put to positive public purposes, that it
    is transparent and accountable.
        But frankly, I've had personal experience with the
    difference it's made in my State, in agencies large and small.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Coons. Senator Grassley.
        Senator Grassley.
        [Audio malfunction occurs.]
        Director Clements, I was at Budget Committee responses or
    opening comments, I'm sorry. The COPS Office has thoroughly
    vetted vetting measures for grantees. All grantees must provide
    quarterly financial reports and semi-annual performance reports
    to your office. This is done--this is--was something wrong. I'm
    sorry. I'll start over again then. Can I have my full 5
    minutes? Okay.
        The COPS Office is thoroughly vetting measures for
    grantees. All grantees must provide quarterly financial reports
    and semi-annual performance reports to the COPS Office. This is
    done so any problem may be caught and addressed early, and if a
    grantee is not complying, their funding will be terminated.
        But some of these reporting requirements have proven
    burdensome for small and rural law enforcement offices that
    can't afford to have a full-time grant writer on staff to apply
    and comply with the grants. What steps have you taken to make
    sure that smaller and rural law enforcement can comply with the
    requirements of the COPS Grant Program?
        Mr. Clements. Thank you, Senator. And an important
    question, and I'll tell you that members of the COPS Office on
    the grant application side work very closely with members of
    these smaller agencies. We've made a focus and a commitment to
    attract these type of agencies for dollars that are sometimes
    the most needed in these smaller type agencies.
        You no longer have to have a professional grant writer to
    attain a grant from the COPS Office. In fact, we have members
    of our team that walk an agency or agency's leaders through the
    process. Certainly not without giving them an edge, but walking
    them through a process where they don't need a grant writer to
    effectively apply for and be awarded a grant. In fact, there
    are many agencies that do not have a grant writer who have been
    awarded COPS Office grants from small communities.
        Senator Grassley. To you, again, the Government
    Accountability Office found that COPS Office Hiring Program,
    the grant application and monitoring process could be improved.
    GAO made two recommendations, both of which the COPS Office
    have implemented. So then, as a followup to those
    implementations, what improvements has the COPS Office made
    under your leadership to the COPS Hiring Program, application,
    and monitoring process?
        Mr. Clements. So, of course, you know, in the work I did
    previous and now in the work in leading this office, compliance
    and oversight is important. And we need to look at that data
    and that information and that critique in a way that's going to
    improve the level of services that we're providing to the
    field.
        It's important for us to be prudent with the taxpayer
    dollar and respect the fidelity of the funding and thankfully
    given by the Administration and Congress, and we appreciate
    that.
        So, the information and critique we get from the auditing
    agencies that overlook the COPS Office is important, and we
    agreed on that particular audit that you're referring to with
    all four recommendations, and are moving in a positive
    direction to rectify each one of them.
        And that's always going to be the case. I mean, it's
    important to have another set of eyes. We do the quarterly and
    semi-annual progress report review and an ongoing review
    throughout the entire year. But then as well, we have another
    set of eyes look at the auditing of the grants. And that's done
    by another agency on the OJP side. And that's--we've done that.
    The federal mandate is 10 percent, each year, the COPS Office--
    even prior to my arrival--has exceeded that 10 percent required
    number mandated by Congress.
        Senator Grassley. The COPS Office publishes something
    entitled Law Enforcement Officers Shot in the Line of Duty.
    That's a report. This is part of legislation that I led with
    Senator Cardin and other Members of this Committee. The latest
    report shows that a total of 331 law enforcement officers were
    shot in the line of duty during calendar year 2022, nearly 60,
    more than in 1,919 before the Defund Police Program.
        While I'm pleased to hear some of my colleagues recognize
    that a main cause of this violence against police is a
    demonization and disrespect shown to the profession, it's not
    enough.
        So, Director Clements, I led a bipartisan effort improving
    Law Enforcement Officers Safety and Wellness through Data Act.
    My bills on existing reporting requirements and fills gaps to
    increase our understanding of circumstances precipitating and
    involving ambush style attacks against law enforcers.
        So, to you, how important is it to better understand the
    factors contributing to increase in ambush attacks against
    police, so we can stomp stomp out this scourge on our society?
        Mr. Clements. Thank you for your support and eventual
    passage of that bill. It is critical to the field in this
    inherently dangerous job performed in the field. And we through
    our provider on that National Blue Alert Program the FOP, we
    recently released the 23 numbers--2023 numbers.
        And disappointingly, they're higher than 331. They went up
    to 378. And of those 378 police officers who were shot 115 were
    by ambush style. And in those 115 episodes, there were 136
    police officers who were shot. I can't say thankfully, but--and
    I shouldn't use the word only--but of that 115 episodes, and
    136 shot 46 died, succumb to their injuries.
        But that's only because of the great medical trauma
    improvements that have been made over the years. So, you know,
    that's a positive. But the real negative is these ambush style
    attacks on police officers, that National Blue Alert Program
    has been adopted by 38 States. It should be adopted by every
    single State.
        It works along the same lines as an Amber Alert, where if
    there's an inherently dangerous situation where a police
    officer has been injured, shot, killed, or there's an inherent
    danger to the police and the community, the information goes
    out to local law enforcement agencies in that State, like the
    Amber Alert, it goes to the media, it goes to the public, and
    it's a great program.
        And thank you for you know, the passage of that program.
    And it's going to good use, or the data is important. Data is
    always important. Unfortunately, it's going in the wrong
    direction.
        Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Grassley. Senator Hirono.
        Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Director Clements,
    to some extent, COPS grants can seem to us on the outside as a
    bit one size fits all. As one example, I believe the grants
    seem to cover salaries and benefits are fixed nationwide,
    despite radically higher costs of the living in Hawaii.
        As another example, some police departments have adopted
    modern use of force guidelines, while others have not. How does
    your office work to tailor COPS grants to the needs of local
    communities? And can we do anything legislatively to enable
    more precise local tailoring?
        Mr. Clements. Thank you, Senator. That absolutely is a
    concern on our side as we look to award agencies who have
    applied, and again, the needs far outpace the funding. And with
    that dollar amount of 125,000 per officer for the term of the
    grant, it's a different variation as you go from community to
    community where some of the mid or larger size agencies have a
    higher salary commitment. So, it's a burden to those agencies.
    And as well, I'm sorry, I forget the second portion of your----
        Senator Hirono. Well, it's basically about tailoring of--
    the second part had to do with the example I gave of some
    police departments have adopted modern use of force guidelines,
    but others have not.
        Mr. Clements. Yes.
        Senator Hirono. And the question is whether your office
    does something to pretty much you know, to encourage----
        Mr. Clements. Importantly.
        Senator Hirono [continuing]. Other departments who receive
    these grants to adopt those methods?
        Mr. Clements. So it's part of the metrics for the total
    number of agencies that apply for these grants. Again, it's
    very competitive. Those agencies who put forth the best plan,
    the most innovative plan with their communities, the community
    engagement they have, the community partnerships they have, but
    as well, their policy internally in the department, their
    policies as it pertains to use of force, as it pertains to de-
    escalation, training in their agencies, and in particular items
    like duty to intervene. And just providing the level of
    training that benefits the officers responding to these
    critical calls, number one.
        And but number two to enhance the relationships in the
    community and to build that trust and legitimacy that is ever
    important to building a community oriented policing agency.
        Senator Hirono. So, is it that your office does not require
    conformity regarding certain standards from the police, such as
    what is it duty to intervene in some of the other kinds of
    practices that your office does not require conformity?
        Mr. Clements. We do not----
        Senator Hirono. For the police departments?
        Mr. Clements. We do not require, however, there are 18,000
    police organizations in this country. We give priority
    consideration to those agencies that have that in their policy.
    And I will tell you with the volume of requests we get for
    grant funding, everyone gets training and technical assistance,
    and everybody has access to our 796 publications and resources.
        But on the grant side, the needs far outpace the funding.
    And I will tell you, in each of the buckets of grants that the
    COPS Office delivers, that those agencies that do not have
    those type of policies are not receiving the grants.
        There's so many priority considerations given for the
    priorities of the executive order and the administration that
    those are the agencies that are rising to the top.
        Senator Hirono. You said that there are about 18,000 police
    agencies and entities?
        Mr. Clements. Yes.
        Senator Hirono. Eighteen thousand. How many are receiving
    grants--COPS grants?
        Mr. Clements. Well, last year for the COPS Hiring Program,
    I think there were 654 applications, 394 were given the green
    light and awarded to the tune of 1,730 officers.
        Senator Hirono. So, when you say that the need for far
    outpaces, the resources, this is a very big need outpacing. So.
        [Laughter.]
        Mr. Clements. We funded about 1,100 agencies last year,
    last fiscal year, and there's 18,000 agencies. Correct.
        Senator Hirono. I think we need to take a look at providing
    more adequate funding. Hawaii's 988 service provides 247 free
    support services for crisis intervention, mental health
    support, and substance use treatment, that can serve as an
    alternative to calling the police to address the mental health
    crisis.
        So, are there sufficient authorities in place for the COPS
    Office? Do our grants to these types of community-based
    alternatives that allow communities to deploy police only where
    they're needed?
        Mr. Clements. So underneath the community policing
    development side of our grant opportunities are a very
    necessary and needed part of that crisis intervention teams.
        And they're great examples of crisis intervention teams
    around the country that were in place prior to 2020. However,
    since 2020, there are many agencies that lacked, and there was
    a gap. So, we do have--and we're thankful to Congress and the
    administration for the funding to increase the funding for
    agencies to adopt crisis intervention teams as it relates to
    the conversations with their community.
        Because quite frankly, many of the social ills have been
    placed squarely at the feet of police. And oftentimes, they're
    not the best trained, equipped or resourced to respond to those
    needs. Absolutely. We need additions in every police agency for
    clinicians and mental health workers.
        Senator Hirono. So, you don't need further authorities as
    much as you need resources. Thank you.
        Mr. Clements. Correct.
        Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Hirono. Senator Padilla.
        Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair, appreciate the
    dialog that this Committee has had today as we're looking at
    community-oriented policing, which Mr. Chairman, I think I may
    be not, if not the only one of the few Members of the Committee
    that have had experience with the COPS Program.
        Not just through federal oversight role, but in the past as
    a local government official. Drawing funding to the city of Los
    Angeles to help hire additional police officers. So, I
    appreciate the program for the multiple dimensions that it
    tries to serve.
        Most people focus just on the ability to hire more police
    officers, which is necessary. A lot of local jurisdictions
    struggling to have their budgets meet the need of the number of
    personnel they need to patrol and protect communities.
        But it is equally important in this conversation, in this
    program to focus on the community oriented policing policies
    and strategies that have been developed and evolved. Would you
    agree with that, Mr. Clements?
        Mr. Clements. 100 percent.
        Senator Padilla. Okay. Thank you for that. So, in that
    spirit one technical question, just to get out of the way, I
    knew that from the outset of this program, maintenance of
    effort by locals was imperative to receive this additional
    federal funding. It's meant to compliment not to supplant local
    dollars. Is that still a requirement?
        Mr. Clements. That is correct.
        Senator Padilla. Okay. And I think, not sure if the City of
    Newark, New Jersey was a recipient when Senator Booker was
    mayor, but he may appreciate that same dynamic as well.
        So, just two examples I wanted to share with the Committee
    of how recipients in California have advanced the thinking on
    community policing strategies. One being the city of Santa
    Rosa, where program funds helped create an outreach team
    dedicated to addressing homelessness and promoting positive
    community engagement.
        Another in the City of Hayward, California Police
    Department established a multi-agency safe housing program that
    addresses problem properties through holistic and community-
    based approaches.
        So, this is the kind of thinking--success stories that I
    think we need to elevate and share more of than just talking
    about the dollars and cents and how many more women and men we
    can put in uniform.
        So, Mr. Clements, can you share with the Committee how some
    of these initiatives and success stories are shared across
    jurisdictions?
        Mr. Clements. So, not a surprise that those agencies have
    been recipients of COPS awards because upfront they had a very
    comprehensive, innovative proposal put forward and realize
    grant awards. And then we're able to carry out that function in
    their community.
        But as well, it's not only about getting the grant and
    allowing that agency to succeed in their own jurisdiction, in
    their own State, it's important to lift up that community of
    practice. And we do this around the country. And, again I
    travel all over the country speaking to the larger stakeholder
    groups, International Association, Chiefs of Police, Noble, the
    union organizations, the Paternal Order Police----
        Senator Padilla. So, you're talking about attending other
    people's events. My specific question now is, are there any
    formal structural mechanisms in your office or in this program
    that facilitates that best practices or information sharing?
        Mr. Clements. Yes. Through our, you know, the third leg of
    the stool of the COPS Office, grants, training and technical
    assistance, so publications and resources. So, we lift that up
    through our resources, through the publications. To date, over
    the years there, 796 publications. They're extremely well done.
    They're accessible on, and as well, we have a podcast and a
    beat and a newsletter where we lift up those great examples.
        Senator Padilla. Can you point in any of those three legs
    of that stool, specific examples of how you and your office are
    working with law enforcement to build trust in every community?
    We know that fair policing is important. What are you actively
    doing through the office and any of the initiatives to address
    historic bias in some law enforcement agencies, and increasing
    police accountability?
        Mr. Clements. Senator, every single one of our programs,
    not only the grants, but if you look at our publications
    training, every single one of them touches upon the items that
    you just brought up, including de-escalation, including bias in
    the community, and building that trust and legitimacy.
        It's a requirement to be administered a grant. But not only
    that, if you look at our publications and the material we put
    out, it's integral to everything we do in the COPS Office, and
    that's why it's held in such high regard and of great value in
    the field.
        Senator Padilla. So, just in closing, appreciate you
    sharing that. I know this was part of your response to Senator
    Booker's line of questioning as well. I echo his requests for
    better data collection and gathering. And as he has, I sidebar
    for a minute, I was sharing with him my experience as a once
    upon a time member of the Los Angeles City Council, when we
    entered into a consent decree with the Department of Justice
    for what they had found--a pattern of practice, of excessive
    use of force within the LAPD after years of compliance came out
    of the consent decree.
        But I reference that only because, in a consent decree--
    that was the first of many across the country--there is
    required--federally required data collection. To the points
    that Senator Booker was making.
        So, I just encourage you, if we're looking at examples of
    what types of data to gather, how to analyze, how that can
    inform future policies, there's that minimum one source for
    your consideration. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Mr. Clements. Thank you, Senator.
        Senator Klobuchar [presiding]. Thank you, Senator Padilla
    and next up, Senator Ossoff.
        Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I'm happy to
    yield to and follow Senator Butler, who I think has been here
    for a while and may have an upcoming obligation, and that's----
        Senator Klobuchar That's correct. So, Senator Butler.
        Senator Butler. Thank you, Senator Ossoff. Oh the
    generosity of my colleagues. Thank you, Senator Ossoff, I
    really appreciate it.
        Thank you, Director Clements, for your time and service at
    the COPS Office. And I think informed by your time and service
    in the uniform. And I think it is important that in these
    hearings and at every opportunity, we recognize the service and
    sacrifice commitment of our law enforcement officers, and we do
    everything that we can to support them and to make sure that
    they are working with the community to get to the level of
    public safety that we all deserve.
        I guess what I appreciated about your remarks were how you
    described the three-legged stool. There's the grants and, you
    know, there's been a lot of conversation about the grants.
    There's the research and technical assistance, and then the
    publications.
        I wanted to apply my sort of line of questioning maybe
    across all three, because ultimately just to not bury the lead,
    I want to try to understand what it is as a new Member of this
    Committee that I--how it is that I, and this Committee can
    actually help to ensure that you have the tools that you need
    to get to the kind of analysis and true support that I think
    those 18,000 agencies across the country really need from you.
        And so, what, like, just a topical question. So, do you
    have the capacity--you said that when there are applications
    that are submitted there's got to be a comprehensive,
    innovative plan that is a part of those, those application and
    grant processes. Are there requirements in the application
    process for post action reporting?
        Mr. Clements. So, yes, there is, and again, so there's
    ongoing review but post action as well.
        Senator Butler. And then do you think that you have in your
    agencies, the tools, program staff to make sure that there is
    timely--timely being the operative point--timely analysis of
    the hundreds, if not thousands of grants that you and your
    agency award on a given year.
        The analysis of the training and technical assistance, the
    overall impact, do you have in your department, the resources
    to do that timely analysis and then therefore timely
    communication about those best practices that are happening
    across the country?
        Mr. Clements. So, yes for the most part by the requirements
    mandated by Congress, which is to monitor an enhanced level,
    the 10 percent are in a very deep dive into what we're
    realizing as an agency in the field. So, you know, we have that
    quarterly, semi-annual progress report, the routine monitoring
    as the cost of the grant moves on, and then as mandated by
    Congress that 10 percent, which we exceed, and we did $139.2
    million last year, which was more than the 1.34 billion, more
    than the 10 percent that we had in the field.
        Senator Butler. So less--I'm asking the question less about
    like the dollars and cents kind of question, but more outcomes
    impact kind of question. If you have 600 agencies, I think was
    a, a roundabout number that, that were awarded last year. And
    200 of them were funded through, up to focus on community
    intervention teams. Do you have the timely--the resources to
    say, okay, of those 200 grants that were awarded focused on
    community intervention teams, here were the themed bucket
    lessons that were learned, here's the best practices, here's
    what worked. Here were the outcomes that were focused. We were
    able to hire, you know, 200 more women, we were able to enhance
    language capability of X number of communities.
        Do you have the ability to--in your office understand in a
    timely way and a in a relevant way for those agencies that are
    depending on this--these kinds of, of services and grants to
    actually communicate how best they can achieve those similar
    outcomes of those agencies? Just sort of a little bit of
    testing, modeling analysis. And I assume that is the purpose of
    the kinds of research and publications that you want to offer.
        Mr. Clements. So, I appreciate the question, and I don't
    want to dodge the answer, so I want to give you a real answer
    that, look, we get a review at the tail end, and it depends on
    the specific metrics that would be looked for from the field,
    so we do that to the mandate of Congress that 10 percent.
        But as far as a deep dive--on in that one particular
    event--we gave out 1,100 grants last year on all 1,100, no,
    only the 10 percent.
        Senator Butler. I appreciate you not dodging my question
    and being direct in the response again, I really want to make
    sure that we have the resources--your team, have the resources
    to really support the outcomes that our officers on the ground
    are truly putting their lives on the line to achieve.
        I don't want to put words in your mouth. But I think in the
    selection of the words that you offered back to me, there might
    be more room to--for Congress to ask for more accountability
    and to equip you with the tools to actually be able to share
    more of the learnings across the agencies through all of the
    legs of the stool that we as Congress have asked you to support
    those agencies.
        And so, I hear that as a takeaway. I appreciate you for
    engaging in the conversation, and again, for your service and
    commitment to the officers across the country. Thank you, Madam
    Chair.
        Chair Durbin [presiding]. Thank you, Senator Butler. And--
    --
        Senator Butler. Sorry, sir.
        Chair Durbin [continuing]. Just as a lesson that the Good
    Samaritan never goes unpunished. Senator Ossoff, who could now
    recognize Senator Whitehouse.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Whitehouse. Sorry, Jon. Let me just say, first of
    all, how very happy I am to see Colonel Clements here. I've
    known him since he was a sergeant, I believe, on the Providence
    Police Department. He brings the perspective of having led the
    police union of the Providence Police Department and led the
    Providence Police Department.
        And having left both of those roles, both unscathed and
    with enormous affection and respect from the union membership,
    from the members of the police department and from the
    community where he was instrumental in maintaining solid, good
    trusting relations between the Providence Police Department and
    the various Providence communities that it serves.
        So, it's a real treat to see you here, my friend. And I
    wanted to ask two quick things. One, the COPS Hiring Program
    and the grants that go out always got a lot of attention. But
    what are some of the best ways that the COPS Office works to
    build trust between communities and law enforcement that you
    were so instrumental in doing a great job with in Providence?
        Mr. Clements. So, first off, always great to see you,
    Senator. Maybe not so much in this type of forum.
        Senator Whitehouse. We've had more fun, right?
        Mr. Clements. Thank you for your words, though. But look
    the COPS Hiring Program is the flagship program, and I know it
    was integral to the work that we did in Providence. And I see
    now in this role, the importance of looking at the
    applications, once again, the needs far outpace the funding.
        So, we get 654 applications for COPS Hiring Grants, and
    only award just under 400. Those other 200 agencies or so--250
    we're needy of the COPS hiring. Only those applications with
    the greatest or the strongest plan of community engagement,
    community involvement, and what I saw from where I came from
    was, partnerships and building relationships across the board,
    across the community.
        And we always include that as part of our application
    process. And I'm seeing now there are many, like agencies doing
    similar things. It's true, the word community is in the COPS
    Office for a particular reason. It is community policing. The
    word public is in public safety for a reason. It's, you know--
    it will always be that strong criminal enforcement, because
    people want to be safe. People want a community to live and
    thrive in, but they want it to be safe. So, it will be those
    conversations with the community--community informed
    conversations that drive the agency.
        Senator Whitehouse. And let's just be a little bit more
    specific in particular relation to the bill that Senator Cornyn
    and I worked on regarding de-escalation, and crisis
    intervention and strategic alternatives to the use of force.
    When we did that, we chose the COPS Program to be the
    implementer to work with and train agencies. How is that going?
        Mr. Clements. It's going great. I can tell you the value in
    the field is well regarded. The interest is overwhelming. And I
    stood with you, I think it was in 2019 in the Providence Public
    Safety Headquarters, when you announced a portion of that,
    supporting and treating officers in crisis. The STOIC Act of
    2019. I believe it's coming up maybe the end of this year or
    next year.
        But it, it's integral to the work that we do in the field
    with having a co-response of trained clinicians working hand in
    glove with the police department to provide those services. The
    police officers oftentimes aren't the best trained, aren't the
    best equipped, but in that De-escalation Training Act, it
    imposed some very important terms like alternatives to use of
    force.
        The training is integral, duty to intervene is important,
    and now incorporated in as part of training in most
    organizations, or, but there are still some that are lacking.
    That's why the funding for this type of award are so important
    to agencies around the country. I'm finding out not that every
    agency is doing it to the same degree of efficiency.
        Senator Whitehouse. Good work, getting back to the need for
    funding.
        Mr. Clements. Thank you, sir.
        Senator Whitehouse. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.
    Colonel Clements, thank you. Good to see you, sir.
        Mr. Clements. Good to see you, sir. And Senator Ossoff, my
    appreciation for jumping in ahead.
        Chair Durbin. Senator from Georgia.
        Senator Ossoff. I considered yielding to Senator Welch, but
    I'm sorry, Peter. It's--I have limits.
        Chair Durbin. Too much to ask.
        Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Director Clements for your
    service and your testimony today. Communities across Georgia
    rely upon and appreciate the daily sacrifice of officers and
    deputies in our State, who put their lives on the line, who
    make tremendous sacrifices and take risks. And their families
    make tremendous sacrifices as well to defend innocent people
    and to protect public safety.
        And, you know, Mr. Chairman, I think we need to consider
    significant increases to this authorization, given the scope of
    need, given the violent crime that afflicts communities in my
    State and across the country.
        This program is a vital part of our national effort to
    resource public safety and law enforcement, and to resource the
    kind of innovative programs that you've testified, you
    prioritize to build trust between communities and law
    enforcement. And so, I'm grateful to you for leading this
    program, just as I'm grateful to the officers and deputies in
    Georgia who keep us safe every day. I'd like to ask you,
    Director Clements, how do you measure success?
        Mr. Clements. It's perception, I mean, it's not all about
    data. I mean, we can speak about violent crime being down
    whatever percent and shootings and homicides being down,
    whatever percent. And I lived it, when our numbers were
    increasingly descending downwards. Many in the community would
    say, but in this particular community, I don't feel safe
    because last week, so I think we measure fear of crime----
        Senator Ossoff. Well, forgive me Director Clements, I
    clarify the question. I mean, how do you measure the success of
    a specific grant?
        Mr. Clements. We have--there's been all sorts of research
    and evaluations that have identified programs that we have put
    out in measured in fact that as one example, that an increase
    in arrest doesn't necessarily lead to an increase or a decrease
    in crime.
        Senator Ossoff. Forgive me if I'm not being clear, but if
    you make an award to a particular local agency, how do you
    measure whether the grant was successful?
        Mr. Clements. So, they had their progress reports. We had
    the end of year report from that agency, and we forward all
    that information to our partners and OJP who have a more
    critical eye in reviewing--exactly to your question. And we put
    out publications with the research in what that information
    tells us.
        Senator Ossoff. Do those progress reports include as a
    requirement, metrics with respect to use of force, with respect
    to officer involved shootings, with respect to allegations of
    potential racial bias?
        Mr. Clements. No. We are not an investigative agency with
    our grants and awards that we put out. There are investigative
    bodies within the department Office of Criminal Rights and
    Civil Rights.
        Senator Ossoff. And then one of the purposes of the program
    is in fact in the title of the program, is to promote community
    oriented policing. How do you measure, for example, whether a
    grant has successfully reduced negative interactions between
    the public and the local agency?
        Mr. Clements. We have not done that on every single grant
    that we put out to answer your question directly. However, we
    measure that by their progress reports and by the evaluations
    we do with the community as well.
        Senator Ossoff. And when you say their progress reports,
    and you mentioned earlier, you get the review, are those
    progress reports generated by your staff or by the grantee?
        Mr. Clements. By the grantee and reviewed by our staff. And
    we modify gaps that we see along the way where they're not
    complying with what they put forth in their original plan that
    they were going to do in their community. And those are
    measured by, you know, how many partnerships and what type of
    groups are they partnering with in their community. And, you
    know, there are many conversations after a grant is put out by
    our agency with community members.
        Senator Ossoff. Are the semi-annual performance progress
    reports made public?
        Mr. Clements. No.
        Senator Ossoff. Why not?
        Mr. Clements. I can take that back. There are some--with
    grants--with funding being put out by a federal agency, there
    are some stipulations with sensitive information from
    particular agencies.
        Senator Ossoff. You can redact the sensitive information.
        Mr. Clements. It's a legal question that I can take back,
    but no, they are not public.
        Senator Ossoff. Okay. Will you followup with my team and
    the Committee about that, please?
        Mr. Clements. Absolutely sir.
        Senator Ossoff. And the enhanced monitoring reviews are
    those results made public?
        Mr. Clements. Same answer. No.
        Senator Ossoff. Okay. And you'll followup on whether and
    how and why not and what's in those reviews that might be?
        Mr. Clements. I will Senator.
        Senator Ossoff. So just to make sure I'm clear, it doesn't
    sound like there is a clear set of metrics that are universally
    applied to measure the success of the grant. It sounds like
    it's a subjective evaluation based upon reporting produced by
    the grantee. Is that accurate?
        Mr. Clements. No. There are clear sets of metrics that are
    reviewed by our staff, at the end, but they--maybe not every
    single metric that you or other agencies are looking for.
        Senator Ossoff. Yes. If you're trying to--and you have a
    mandate from Congress through this program to promote
    community-oriented policing and build trust between communities
    and law enforcement, why would you not collect, for example,
    use of force data?
        Mr. Clements. We're not an investigative body, and I think
    that's been a challenge.
        Senator Ossoff. It could be self-reported by the grantee,
    couldn't it?
        Mr. Clements. And we encourage that. And those type
    agencies are more likely to receive a grant and funding--
    they're all accessible for the free training, technical
    assistance and publications. But those agencies that do report,
    as I did in the agency I came from, we reported all of that
    data to the FBI and we're more likely to receive a grant than
    others who maybe don't.
        Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Director Clements.
        Mr. Clements. We encourage that.
        Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Director Clements.
        Chair Durbin. Senator from Vermont.
        Senator Welch. Thank you very much. You seem pretty
    friendly with Senator Whitehouse, and you may want to keep that
    on the down low. All right.
        [Laughter.]
        Mr. Clements. Thank you, Senator.
        Senator Welch. You know, this is an incredibly popular
    program. And I think that's one of the reasons there's really
    never been a review of it. Every single one of our communities
    across the country really reveres our local police departments
    and in the public safety function that they perform. Even as
    there's challenges obviously from department to department.
        And I know in Vermont we're enormously grateful. The grants
    that we've received have essentially gone into technology and
    have allowed for a much more robust communication system,
    which, as you well know, is really essential to the
    coordination of public safety responses.
        So, we're there on that. The questions that are coming up
    and I share is not so much a skepticism about the program
    because we're all, I think, supportive of (a) the program and
    perhaps, (b) increasing funding for it. But the basic
    proposition that any program, whether it's food stamps or the
    Pentagon or public safety we ought to take--kick the tires and
    make sure that we're getting the taxpayers value. That's
    really, I think, the point of this.
        So, I totally support scrutiny across the board when it
    comes to taxpayer dollars. And the question that seems to be
    coming up is your limited in what you do. You get applications,
    you review them, they have to check certain boxes to make
    certain that it fits within the category. But you're not an
    investigative body, as you said.
        Yet, on the other hand there's a real relationship with the
    Department of Justice that can be an investigative body. And,
    you know, we do have in examples of departments like in
    Memphis, the Scorpion Program, where there was a lot of money
    that came from COPS. And whether that was directly related to
    Scorpion or not, we don't know to a San Bernardino when a poor
    hostage got shot.
        And there's a number of instances where there's legitimate
    questions, about what were the practices. So, I guess the
    question I have is whether it makes sense and it may require
    some additional authorization here, or coordination with other
    elements of the Department of Justice for the COPS Program to
    have a capacity to look back.
        Did this department that where something significant
    happened, like in Memphis or San Bernardino, is there something
    we should look at that was facilitated by the COPS Program
    where action should be taken? Or should we look ahead?
        You know, there's been an emphasis on community policing
    which takes an enormous amount of effort and engagement with
    the police departments. But should that be part of a
    consideration that is in the application.
        And then finally there's best policing practices. Those are
    always evolving. You've been in law enforcement for a long
    time, and I'm sure things are different today than when you
    first started. So bottom line here does it make sense for the
    benefit of public safety to have your office have the capacity
    or in coordination with elements of the Department of Justice
    to look back, to look ahead, and also to promote through the
    grant process best practices within our police departments
    across the country?
        Mr. Clements. Thank you, Senator. And first and foremost,
    as a foundation, I want to say that, you know, the men and
    women who work in the COPS Office, they are passionate,
    compassionate about the work they deliver to communities and
    law enforcement agencies, but probably more importantly, to
    communities.
        We want to be the best fiscal stewards of the taxpayer
    dollar. And I'll say that. And another thing I'll say is look,
    going around the country, including in Vermont, I know many
    from my previous employee and know even more now, there are
    some tremendous law enforcement executives, who--in where I
    came from, has been part of my pedigree--it's about
    transparency. It's about are we achieving the mission that we
    really want to in the community?
        So, I understand again, there are other agencies that
    perform that investigative type work. The mandate that we've
    had from Congress, we have complied with, with that 10 percent.
    We've exceeded that number each and every year. In my time
    here, it's only--I've only been here 1 year. We certainly
    exceeded that, and we'll continue to, but I understand and we
    want to be the best fiscal stewards of the taxpayer dollar that
    we can.
        Senator Welch. But elaborate a little bit on the part of
    being the best steward, is not just to make sure that the
    dollars were properly spent, it's about best practices. It's
    about improving the quality of our public safety situation. So
    that's where I'm asking about look back, look forward best
    practices?
        Mr. Clements. Agreed. And I think, you know, we try
    consciously to put that out around the country because there
    is--there are some great practices around the country. There is
    a community of practice on a particular issue that we try to
    lift up in both future training and in our publications,
    because there are like problems depending on the variations of
    departments we have around the country, small, mid-size or
    large. But we want to be able to give guidance and those best
    practices to agencies around the country on a particular area,
    whether it's de-escalation, crisis intervention, recruitment,
    retention. It's important.
        I will be the forever eternal optimist that this profession
    gets to a strong point in lifting up exactly what you are
    talking about, these best practices around the country. And I
    think in my time here, that's my commitment to use that to our
    advantage.
        Senator Welch. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you.
        Mr. Clements. Thank you.
        Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator. And thank you Mr.
    Clements. Let me just--I'd like to make two observations and
    the first is to thank you. You have been candid and direct in
    responding to the questions. You've been honest.
        You've been you've said things so honestly that I think
    it's kind of stunned the Members of the Committee that you gave
    a straight answer on a lot of things. It speaks well of you and
    your operation at the COPS Program.
        I can remember--and this program was created under
    President Clinton and the popularity of the program, I think a
    fellow by the name of Biden was in the Senate at the time and
    took great pride, great pride in this program and still does,
    I'm sure.
        So, thank you for continuing that tradition. Now, what I'm
    about to say has nothing to do with the COPS agency, but it
    does have something to do with questions and statements that
    we've heard this morning.
        This notion of politicians being soft on crime. I would
    like to put into the record the event of January 6, 2021, when
    an insurrectionist mob left a White House rally to come to
    Capitol Hill. And they proceeded to break laws, break windows,
    break doors down, and engage in conduct, which was disgusting.
        I was here, most of us saw it firsthand. It's been my good
    fortune in my adult life to spend most of my time on this
    Capital Complex. And I love this Capital Complex and this
    building. I think it speaks to our Nation and what we stand
    for. It was desecrated on January 6, and as a result of that,
    there was a criminal investigation.
        And more than a thousand individuals were charged with
    crimes as a result of that insurrectionist effort. What was
    even worse was that five policemen gave their lives in the
    process of it. And 140 were seriously injured. We're not making
    that up because we see the video. We saw what happened.
        And now to have members of the political party that
    inspired that insurrectionist mob through the White House tell
    us that these individuals are somehow patriots, hostages,
    should be released from jail for what they did. I'm sorry, I
    don't see it that way. That is soft on crime to the extreme, to
    ignore what they did to our Capital building and endanger the
    lives of policemen and individuals who were here doing their
    job.
        I just want to make that for the record. They selectively
    pick areas that were soft on crime, but they ignore what
    happened January 6 and the reaction of a candidate for
    President to that event.
        Having said that, I thank you for your statement today and
    appearance before the Committee. We're going to have statements
    entered into the record without objection by the Fraternal
    Order of Police, National Association of Police Officers, and
    AFSCME.
        There's no further business to come before the Senate. The
    Senate Judiciary Committee stands adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 11:47 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
        [Additional material submitted for the record follows.]

                                A P P E N D I X

    Submitted by Chair Durbin:

     American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees
        (AFSCME), COPS Oversight, letter..............................   141

     National Association of Police Organizations, Inc. (NAPO),
        Supports Fully Funding the COPS Program, letter...............   142

     National Fraternal Order of Police (FOP), Strong Support of the
        COPS Program, letter..........................................   144

     Rausch, David, COPS Program Reauthorization Act, statement.......   145

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