[Senate Hearing 118-660]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                                                        S. Hrg. 118-660

                LONG-TERM ECONOMIC BENEFITS AND IMPACTS 
                  FROM FEDERAL INFRASTRUCTURE AND PUBLIC 
                  TRANSPORTATION INVESTMENT

=======================================================================



                                HEARING

                               before the

                              COMMITTEE ON
                   BANKING,HOUSING,AND URBAN AFFAIRS
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                                   ON

        EXAMINING THE LONG-TERM ECONOMIC BENEFITS AND IMPACTS 
          FROM FEDERAL INFRASTRUCTURE AND PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION 
          INVESTMENT
  
                               __________

                             JULY 31, 2024
                               __________




  Printed for the use of the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs
                                
                                
                                
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                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

60-421 PDF                WASHINGTON : 2026
                







            COMMITTEE ON BANKING, HOUSING, AND URBAN AFFAIRS

                       SHERROD BROWN, Ohio, Chair

JACK REED, Rhode Island              TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey          MIKE CRAPO, Idaho
JON TESTER, Montana                  MIKE ROUNDS, South Dakota
MARK R. WARNER, Virginia             THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts      JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland           BILL HAGERTY, Tennessee
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada       CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming
TINA SMITH, Minnesota                J.D. VANCE, Ohio
RAPHAEL G. WARNOCK, Georgia          KATIE BOYD BRITT, Alabama
JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania         KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
LAPHONZA R. BUTLER, California       STEVE DAINES, Montana

                     Laura Swanson, Staff Director
               Lila Nieves-Lee, Republican Staff Director

                       Elisha Tuku, Chief Counsel

                      Cameron Ricker, Chief Clerk
                      Shelvin Simmons, IT Director
                       Pat Lally, Assistant Clerk














                                  (ii)








                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                        WEDNESDAY, JULY 31, 2024

                                                                   Page

Opening statement of Chair Brown.................................     1
        Prepared statement.......................................    25

Opening statements, comments, or prepared statements of:
    Senator Scott................................................     3
        Prepared statement.......................................    26

                               WITNESSES

Christopher A. Coes, Acting Under Secretary of Transportation for 
  Policy, Department of Transportation...........................     6
    Prepared statement...........................................    28
    Responses to written questions of:
        Senator Scott............................................    36
        Senator Warnock..........................................    37
        Senator Fetterman........................................    38
Michael Knisley, Executive Secretary and Treasurer, Ohio State 
  Building and Construction Trades Council.......................     8
    Prepared statement...........................................    29
    Responses to written questions of:
        Senator Warnock..........................................    39
R. Richard Geddes, Founding Director, Cornell Program in 
  Infrastructure Policy..........................................    10
    Prepared statement...........................................    30
    Responses to written questions of:
        Senator Scott............................................    40















                                 (iii)

 
                LONG-TERM ECONOMIC BENEFITS AND IMPACTS 
                  FROM FEDERAL INFRASTRUCTURE AND PUBLIC 
                  TRANSPORTATION INVESTMENT

                              ----------                              


                        WEDNESDAY, JULY 31, 2024

                                       U.S. Senate,
          Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met at 10 a.m., via Webex and in room 538, 
Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Sherrod Brown, Chair of 
the Committee, presiding.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIR SHERROD BROWN

    Chair Brown. The Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban 
Affairs is called to order.
    Thank you all for joining us to our three witnesses, whom I 
will introduce in a moment.
    For too long, too many people in Ohio, too many people 
across the Nation, thought--for good reason--that their leaders 
had given up making our infrastructure, making our 
manufacturing base the best in the world. Congress' inaction 
and the empty promises of Presidents of both parties left 
Americans to fend for themselves, as they swerved to avoid even 
bigger potholes; as they bypassed dilapidated bridges; as they 
dodged chunks of concrete falling from decaying overpasses; as 
they waited longer and longer for buses that were getting older 
and older.
    Americans saw the consequences of years of congressional 
inaction and Presidents' broken promises, and they watched as 
other countries--our competitors and our adversaries alike--
added highspeed rail, built better roads, upgraded their water 
and sewer, and installed 5G networks.
    Our failing infrastructure was only compounded by misguided 
tax and trade policies that shuttered factories in places like 
Zanesville, places like my hometown of Mansfield, and places 
like Kathy and Mike Knisley's hometown of Lima and Chillicothe, 
and jobs shipped overseas.
    At last week's hearing, I talked about how our economy and 
national security interests are interconnected. Ensuring that 
the United States leads the world in producing semiconductor 
chips is critical to both our entire economy and our national 
security.
    Because of the work of many of the Senators on this 
Committee, we passed the bipartisan infrastructure law and the 
CHIPS and Science Act. But people don't really care that we 
passed a bill. That's sort of inside baseball. They care about 
results. Today, let's look at the results.
    Sixty-thousand infrastructure projects--60,000--already 
underway across the country because of the bipartisan 
infrastructure law. These projects are improving 165,000 miles 
of road. More than 9,400 bridges are getting repaired.
    Every State is benefiting. The Mobile River Bridge in 
Alabama is getting improvements. Rural and tribal communities 
in Minnesota, Idaho, and other States are getting new buses and 
vans. We are making bus and rail stations that were built 
before the Americans with Disabilities Act finally accessible 
in places like Philadelphia and Cleveland.
    Six years ago, Rob Portman and I introduced the Bridge 
Investment Act to replace or repair the hundreds of bridges in 
Ohio and thousands around the country that in many cases had 
not had serious repairs in literally decades.
    And now, because of the years of work we did that 
culminated in the bipartisan infrastructure law, we are 
finally--finally--building a new Brent Spence companion bridge 
over the Ohio River. We are replacing the 90-year-old Western 
Hills Viaduct, crucial to Cincinnati.
    Brent Spence, for example, a critical link in the supply 
chain network, transports 160,000 cars and trucks and $2 
billion in goods every single day. That's 3 percent--think of 
that, 3 percent--of the country's entire GDP. And it's part of 
the fabric of the city of Cincinnati, helping to create the 
vibrancy of one of America's great cities.
    But Ohioans know Brent Spence is as dated as it is 
dangerously crowded. We've heard from Ohioans who are concerned 
about concrete crumbling on the Western Hills Viaduct. We are 
fixing that and we're seeing new construction across Ohio--and 
it's not just huge projects like the Brent Spence and the Intel 
fabs in Licking County.
    We are seeing major upgrades to streets and bridges across 
my State, including Ohio's rural counties and Appalachia. We 
announced this month that the Market Street Bridge, which 
connects Steubenville with West Virginia, that will finally be 
replaced.
    We are also making critical investments to modernize public 
transit. Americans take 21 million trips--21 million trips--on 
transit every day. And when the buses and trains and all the 
infrastructure required to operate them are not up-to-date, 
service is slower; service is less reliable.
    Imagine driving--think about this--imagine driving the same 
car every day for 40 years. That's what operators on 
Cleveland's RTA and its 60 cars have been doing for years 
running. The newest of these 60 cars is 40 years old.
    In Cleveland, I met with workers whose job it is to 
maintain railcars that date back to the Reagan administration. 
At the railcar garage that I visited on the east side of 
Cleveland, you actually see these workers over in the corner 
machining replacement parts for cars that are so old, they 
can't find replacement parts. They have to machine the 
replacement parts to keep these trains running. It's the only 
way to get the parts because they don't make them anymore. Now, 
finally, because of the infrastructure law, Cleveland will get 
60 new railcars.
    We know the U.S. lacks a robust national passenger rail 
network that other major economic powers have. We are changing 
that. We're seeing construction of new facilities to improve 
transit and rail service, like Akron Metro, its public transit 
system, its new maintenance facility, and a new Amtrak station 
in Bryan, Ohio, a small town in the northwest corner of the 
State.
    We know how crucial manufacturing and innovation are to our 
economy. Modern infrastructure today is driven by information 
technology. The microchips that power our machines and 
computers are the products of American design and ingenuity, 
but we have become dependent on other countries for their 
production. Ninety percent of the chips we invented are now 
made overseas.
    Taiwan is dominant today. Alarmingly, China is trying to 
become dominant tomorrow. We wrote the CHIPS and Science Act to 
change that trajectory. It's allowing us to build a new 
generation of chip production facilities in Ohio and around the 
country.
    These investments are growing our economy. They're creating 
jobs and opportunity. In the past 3 years, we've added 670,000 
construction jobs--670,000 construction jobs--added to the U.S. 
economy. Think about that. This is only the start. Hiring is 
expected to pick up even more in the coming years. More and 
more projects will get underway.
    That doesn't even take into account the jobs throughout the 
manufacturing supply chain, because we made sure these laws--
again, first ever in the last few years--have the strongest Buy 
America rules ever.
    The steel, iron, pipes, and other construction materials 
are being made in Ohio and across the U.S. by American 
workers--not, as previously, imported from China. Pipefitters, 
bricklayers, ironworkers, steelworkers, carpenters, machinists 
are good, middle-class jobs with high wages and on-the-job 
training opportunities, where you can develop a craft and build 
a career.
    One of the highlights of the last few years for me was I 
saw Mike Knisley in Columbus. He's the Secretary and Treasurer 
of the Ohio State Building and Construction Trades. He 
represents the men and women who are doing the real work on 
these projects.
    I was at an event last summer with Mike in our State's 
capital: graduation for a training program that places workers, 
places workers directly into union apprenticeships in the 
trades--creating opportunity for so many people who haven't had 
that opportunity before. Every one of these graduates, mostly 
men and women in their twenties, had on T-shirts that said in 
big, black letters on the back, ``Direct Path to the Middle 
Class''--opportunities that most of these young people didn't 
dream of having.
    It's the jobs; we're creating a direct path to the middle 
class. It's how you build an economy that upholds the dignity 
of work.
    Senator Scott.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR TIM SCOTT

    Senator Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I thank the witnesses for being with us today, and thank 
you for the Committee Members who are here with us as well.
    One of the challenges I see on this conversation that we're 
having today is to realize that local problems need local 
solutions. It's really hard for folks in Washington, D.C., to 
understand the transit needs of folks in Charleston, South 
Carolina; Summerville, South Carolina; Columbus, Ohio, or 
Chicago, Illinois.
    The most effective thing that we can do is make sure that 
the resourcing goes without all the red tape and challenges 
that come from Washington, D.C. Getting that done seems to be 
too close to Peter walking on the water. Nearly a miraculous 
occurrence manifestation has to happen for us to just do the 
simple thing.
    I've spent half my career in politics on the local level, 
understanding infrastructure projects and what it takes to get 
those things done. When I first became a Senator, the one thing 
I did was I decided that, as a kid who grew up in a single-
parent household mired in poverty who understood the transit 
needs of the poorest Americans trying to get to the job, I 
wanted to make sure that I was sensitive to the current state 
of Americans trying to get to work. So, I decided I'd go back 
to the old bus routes and get on those bus routes and spend 
time talking to people waiting on the bus to come.
    I remember talking to a grandmother who worked at Walmart 
who wanted to spend more time with her grandkids on the 
weekends, but she would spend 80 to 90 minutes early in the 
morning waiting on the bus, 7 hours at work, and 80 or 90 
minutes to get back home. Three hours to work a 7-hour shift 
for slightly more than minimum wage to provide the resources 
necessary to help her grandkids have a better life and a better 
opportunity to experience and enjoy the American dream.
    Having the conversations with folks who were struggling to 
make ends meet, and thinking about how challenging it is, as a 
local official, to understand, and then, to decide the right 
transit routes, so that the folks who need public 
transportation have access to the right routes at the right 
times to get to the right job--you just can't do that from 
Washington.
    The one thing Washington has done poorly is to put more 
onerous burdens on local government and State government, 
because somehow 535 people in Washington seem to know 
everything about local needs. And yet, we seem to know nothing 
about getting the job done.
    As an example, my friends on the left are always looking 
for a ``new green steal.'' They call it the ``New Green Deal,'' 
but in the end it steals opportunity, innovation, creativity, 
and resources from the local folks to make good decisions about 
what they need.
    But it's not just transit; it's actually the infrastructure 
needs that are delayed time and time again. I was thinking 
about this recently. It takes about 7 years--seven years--for a 
project to turn the shovel on a new highway program. I was 
thinking about Highway 17 and this expansion in Mount Pleasant 
in South Carolina a number of years ago. The frustration I 
felt, as the Chairman of the County, waiting for all the red 
tape to be cut, so that we could simply turn shovel on a 
project that had been approved for years. And I sent some notes 
to my friends back on County Council just to make sure that I 
was right about the 7-year process.
    It could take up to 2 years for the planning and the 
programming just to meet Federal thresholds, so that projects 
can start. And then, after you do that, it can take up to 3 
years, whether it's NEPA or other environmental challenges. 
Throw the ``green new steal'' on top of all of that and you 
recognize that this onerous burden to start a road project 
takes 7 years.
    Now, here's the challenging part: when you get the price of 
a highway project--let's say in those days it was several 
hundred million dollars; $700 million, right?--it's not 
anticipated that 7 years later somehow someway, miraculously, 
that same road project is going to cost the same amount of 
money 7 years later. That's what we call in South Carolina 
ridiculous hogwash. It just doesn't work that way. But none of 
that is anticipated in the actual price that people pay waiting 
and waiting and waiting for the Federal Government just to do 
their jobs and get out of the way.
    But then, after you get through the environmental review 
and compliance, and it's 3 years later, then you go to the 
preliminary and final design--up to 2 more years on this 
process.
    And at the same time all this is happening, currently, 
under the Biden administration--everybody wants to celebrate 
the IIJA and the IRA, the most ridiculously named bill in maybe 
American history, the Inflation Reduction Act that actually 
increases inflation, and the CHIPS and Science Act--what 
happens? Well, the cost of construction explodes to the highest 
level ever. It costs more money to do the same thing than it 
has ever cost three or 4 years later.
    And so, when you take a 7-year delay on a road, and you 
take all the impact studies that it takes--we're not smart 
enough to do them all at the exact same time--we're going to 
wait for the first 2 years before we start the Environmental 
Impact Studies. If this was a business, we would just fire 
everybody. That's what I would do. That's what I did when I was 
in business.
    If it takes you 7 years to get something started, I want a 
new--I want somebody else in charge. Americans want someone 
else in charge because the $2 billion problem that they have in 
Maryland to rebuild a road that's going to the bridge, that's 
going to take 4 years. It's ridiculous, unnecessary. All you 
need is common sense and people ready to go to work.
    And unfortunately, every time well-intentioned politicians 
make the decision that we know better than the local community, 
it costs jobs; it costs prices, because they explode. I've got 
to tell you, 13 years at the local level is a really good 
education on what not to do.
    Let's not burden local government with the ``green new 
steal,'' that $7.5 billion in green funding that results in 
only eight EV charging stations; that takes all those dollars 
away from being able to have real progress on real roads for 
real people to get to their jobs.
    Mr. Chairman, I'm glad we're having the hearing today, but 
I've got to tell you, most Americans would say skip the 
hearing, block grant the money, and let a brother go to work. 
That's what they would say.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Senator Scott.
    I will introduce the three witnesses. We're pleased to 
welcome the Acting Under Secretary of Transportation for 
Policy, Christopher Coes. Mr. Coes was previously confirmed by 
the Senate as the Assistant Secretary for Transportation 
Policy. He worked for many years advocating for safe and 
reliable transportation that builds better communities. We look 
forward, Mr. Secretary, to hearing your input.
    Micheal Knisley served as the Executive Secretary and 
Treasurer of the State Building Instruction Trades Council 
since 2018. Prior to his current leadership role, Mr. Knisley 
served as President of the Lima, Ohio, Building and 
Construction Trades Council. He oversees the day-to-day 
operations of the State Council and supports its 14 individual 
local councils that comprise 137 trade unions and some 100,000 
members.
    I would like to welcome Mr. Knisley's family members 
visiting from Ohio today: his wife Kathy from Lima, his sister-
in-law and brother-in-law, Jennifer and Brad, from Columbus, 
and nephews Griffin and Grayson. It's great to have all of you 
here. It's the first time you've come to a hearing, I think. 
So, welcome.
    And, Mike, I look forward to hearing about the new jobs 
you're seeing and learning how we're bringing more workers.
    And I would add that, interestingly, I'm almost certain I 
will see Mike at the groundbreaking for the Brent Spence 
Bridge. It was announced by Senator Portman and me, the 
President of the United States, Senator McConnell, the 
Governors of the two States. It was announced in early January, 
right around the time Senator Portman left office, of 2023. The 
groundbreaking to build this bridge will be in less than 2 
years. So, thank you for that, and I assume I will see you at 
that.
    Dr. Richard Geddes is the Founding Director of the Cornell 
Program in Infrastructure Policy and a nonresident senior 
fellow with AEI. He previously served as Commissioner of the 
National Surface Transportation Policy and Revenue Study 
Commission. Thank you for being here.
    Mr. Secretary, would you begin?

  STATEMENT OF CHRISTOPHER A. COES, ACTING UNDER SECRETARY OF 
    TRANSPORTATION FOR POLICY, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

    Mr. Coes. Good morning.
    Chairman Brown, Ranking Member Scott, and Members of the 
Committee, thank you for this opportunity to testify today and 
for your leadership and partnership, as we work to deliver 
projects to build a stronger, safer transportation system that 
connects American people to jobs, to housing, and to one 
another.
    DOT has been working tirelessly executing the vision of the 
Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act. Because of this 
generational investment, the Biden-Harris administration has 
announced $461 billion of awards, funding over 60,000 specific 
projects in all 50 States, the District of Columbia, 
territories, and for tribes.
    As I've travelled across the country, I can tell you these 
headlines don't come close to telling the full story about 
IIJA's significance. Nationally, 47 percent of the U.S. 
population spends more than 15 percent of their annual income 
on transportation. IIJA isn't just an investment in 
infrastructure; it's an investment in our economy, in our 
workforce, and in our Nation's household budgets.
    IIJA is allowing us right now to invest over $91 billion 
into restoring and upgrading our Nation's transit service--
creating thousands of new jobs and expanding affordable access 
to even more. Bringing transportation, jobs, and housing closer 
together improves access, while also supporting local and 
regional economic development.
    In April, FTA announced the award of nearly $18 million to 
20 projects in 16 States in transit-oriented development funds 
to support local economic development efforts to improve access 
and increase affordable housing production near transit.
    It's also critical that transit is available to everyone, 
regardless of their ability. That's why the All Stations 
Accessibility Program is so important, allowing us to upgrade 
and modernize legacy transit stations built before the 
Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990.
    Last month, we saw the groundbreaking for the first project 
to reach construction under this program, an upgrade to six 
transit stations in Philadelphia that will make them fully 
accessible and provide greater access to everyday destinations.
    We're also investing in projects to reconnect communities, 
including through the Reconnect Communities and Neighborhoods 
Program. For example, in Columbus, Ohio, we're funding the 
development of a bus rapid transit corridor along the West 
Broad Street, which currently divides disadvantaged communities 
and is one of the most dangerous roadways in Ohio. Once 
completed, we expect that the availability of this BRT system 
will result in more affordable transit station options, fewer 
pedestrian deaths, and greater private investment along that 
corridor.
    This project is just one example of how transit investments 
are helping transform disadvantaged communities into thriving 
ones. More broadly, we are exceeding our Justice40-covered 
programs goal with 55 percent of our benefits going to 
disadvantaged communities, particularly rural and tribal.
    For example, at the border of Montana and Idaho, we're 
funding the rehabilitation of a critical segment of Interstate 
90 to enable it to better withstand increased harsh weather 
events and make it safer and more reliable for travelers and 
vulnerable populations nearby.
    We're also replacing rural bridges in South Carolina that 
are disrupting vital farm-to-market and commercial freight 
routes with existing load restrictions due to their age and 
condition.
    In March, we experienced a painful reminder of the 
criticality of our Nation's bridges to our daily lives and to 
our economy when the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore 
collapsed after being struck by a container ship. We all worked 
rapidly with multiple partners to reopen the Federal channel 
and the Port of Baltimore in less than 100 days, and we 
continue to work with them to rebuild the Key Bridge.
    But even before that incident, we've been working with 
communities across the country to rehab and replace aging 
critical bridges. And that is why, earlier this month, DOT 
awarded over $5 billion to 13 large bridges, including $250 
million for the I-95 bridge over Lake Marion in South Carolina; 
$550 million for the I-10 Mobile River Project in Alabama; $251 
million to repair a cluster of bridges on I-95 in Rhode Island.
    These projects will join so many projects already underway. 
For instance, we expect construction to begin soon on the Brent 
Spence Bridge, which carries over $400 billion in freight each 
year over the Ohio River.
    We are excited to see some of the earliest IIJA investments 
to break ground and begin construction and start to deliver 
benefits. We are doing everything on our part to accelerate 
projects, including standing up a new Project Delivery Center 
of Excellence, streamlining our NOFOs, and providing technical 
assistance to rural and tribal communities.
    On behalf of Secretary Buttigieg and the entire Department, 
we appreciate the partnership and the shared commitment on 
delivering a world-class transportation system for the American 
people.
    Thank you and I look forward to your questions.
    Chair Brown. Thank you.
    Mr. Knisley, welcome.

     STATEMENT OF MICHAEL KNISLEY, EXECUTIVE SECRETARY AND 
 TREASURER, OHIO STATE BUILDING AND CONSTRUCTION TRADES COUNCIL

    Mr. Knisley. Good morning, Chairman Brown, Ranking Member 
Scott, and Members of the Committee.
    Thank you for your leadership on building a resilient 
economy for American workers and the communities through 
Federal investment.
    My name is Mike Knisley. I'm here to testify on the impact 
that Federal investments are having on the 100,000 men and 
women that I represent as Executive Secretary/Treasurer of the 
Ohio State Building and Construction Trades Council.
    In our nearly 60 years as a building trades council, 
there's never been a brighter future for tradespeople who build 
Ohio. Ohio owes this bright future to smart public-private 
investment, led by strong bipartisan leadership in Congress.
    And we're building big in Ohio. Over the next decade, we're 
looking at over $200 billion in construction projects that will 
create generational careers that provide prevailing wages with 
health care and retirement benefits, as well as tuition-free, 
paid apprenticeship training, for both present and future 
tradespeople.
    The bipartisan Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act means 
that thousands of tradespeople in southern Ohio and northern 
Kentucky will build the Brent Spence Bridge. This bridge, 
which, besides being long overdue, is a vital transportation 
corridor for our region and will be built by a diverse 
generation of construction workers, including tradeswomen like 
Saria Gwin-Maye of Ironworkers Local 44.
    The CHIPS and Science Act means that nearly 10,000 
construction tradespeople will build Intel's new semiconductor 
fabs in Columbus, Ohio. This project is creating family 
sustaining construction jobs across the Central Ohio region, 
but also in Ohio's Appalachian communities, where the residents 
can see opportunity on the horizon again.
    There's excitement in the air in places like IBW 1105's 
Electrical Training Center, where a whole new generation of 
tradespeople will begin their apprenticeships on the Intel 
project, including having the potential to work their entire 
career at that facility upgrading and maintaining the fabs. 
Imagine that--lifelong family sustaining construction careers 
within commuting distance of Ohio's counties. This type of 
investment has the potential to deliver lasting recovery in 
Ohio's struggling towns.
    Statewide, the Ohio building trades have scaled-up their 
workforce development to meet the demand driven by these 
investments. Across Ohio, our 80 privately funded 
apprenticeship centers are taking in their largest classes 
ever.
    The buildings trade model is the gold standard in workforce 
development, where they train over 80 percent of all 
construction apprentices in Ohio--and I must put on this--with 
zero tax dollars.
    The continued high-road investment in construction projects 
generate the steady demand of apprentices needed for the next 
generation of local tradespeople.
    Underinvestment in our Nation's infrastructure over the 
past 30 years has hurt economic growth in the communities where 
our members live and work. But now, with the new infrastructure 
investment in places like my hometown of Lima, Ohio, good-
paying construction jobs are on the rise--creating an 
environment where young people do not have to leave the Buckeye 
State to support their families.
    The Ohio Building Trades believes that the rising tide of 
economic opportunity must be within reach for all Ohioans, 
including women, people of color, and veterans. Thanks to our 
partners in industry and at every level of Government whose 
commitment to responsible contracting and sustainable jobs 
means that Ohio's rising economic tide reaches working families 
in Ohio. Our commitment to our partners is this: we will get 
the job done.
    We ask that you match our commitment by ensuring that 
federally funded construction jobs go to American tradespeople. 
These jobs must provide benefits to working families in our 
communities. And despite the heavy workforce demand in certain 
regions across our State, there are still depressed areas that 
have local tradespeople being displaced by companies that hire 
workers without the proper documentation to work well below the 
required prevailing wage and without any benefits.
    Properly executed, each new project built through Federal 
investment strengthens Ohio's construction workforce by growing 
our communities through local wages and benefits for working 
families. And you can take the building trades' commitment to 
equal economic opportunity to the bank. Our journey people and 
apprentices are protected by collective bargaining agreements. 
CBAs are the great equalizing in wages, health care, and 
retirement equity on every jobsite, and they guarantee that 
each worker, regardless of race or gender, earns dollar-for-
dollar the same pay and benefits as everyone else.
    When Ohio's building trades people are bringing home a 
steady paycheck from major projects, their entire communities 
feel the economic benefits of those earnings. And thanks to 
Federal investment, these are the working Ohioans who someday 
will drive past factories like Intel or across the Brent Spence 
Bridge and say to their children and grandchildren, ``I built 
that.''
    Thank you for allowing me to voice the economic stability 
and hope for the future of thousands of Ohio building 
tradespeople and a new generation of Ohio construction 
apprentices that we have, thanks to these Federal investments 
in American workers.
    And I'm going to end with my final comment. Good 
infrastructure and investment policies that come out of 
Washington create great outcomes in your local communities.
    Thank you, Chairman Brown and Ranking Member Scott.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Mr. Knisley.
    Almost every day I drive over Interstate 480 through 
Cleveland. And, you know, bridges and buildings are often named 
after politicians. Well, this bridge is called the Union 
Workers Bridge, as it should be.
    And as you know, building trades workers often--a few lose 
their lives on these projects, these dangerous projects that 
matter so much for our country.
    Dr. Geddes, thank you. Welcome.

  STATEMENT OF R. RICHARD GEDDES, FOUNDING DIRECTOR, CORNELL 
                PROGRAM IN INFRASTRUCTURE POLICY

    Mr. Geddes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you and Ranking 
Member Scott, and Members of the Committee. Thank you for the 
opportunity to testify.
    In addition to your kind introduction, I'm Rick Geddes, 
Academic Director and Founder of the Cornell Program in 
Infrastructure Policy, also a professor in the relatively new 
Jeb Brooks School of Public Policy at Cornell, as well as a 
professor economics at Cornell.
    So, I'll proceed with that. Thank you.
    Approximately 2 years ago, to take a step back, Congress 
passed the bipartisan infrastructure law, the CHIPS and Science 
Act, and the Inflation Reduction Act within the span of about 9 
months. Together, those Acts constitute the largest Federal 
action on infrastructure since the National Interstate and 
Defense Highways Act of 1956, which created our interstate 
highway system.
    Those legislative acts are important in strengthening our 
country's infrastructure and addressing endemic problems, such 
as a large backlog of deferred maintenance, as well as creating 
a lot of new important projects.
    The actual impact of the acts on U.S. infrastructure to 
date, however, has been a bit less than expected for several 
reasons.
    First, inflation has been persistent since the acts were 
passed, particularly in the materials and labor needed to 
deliver much infrastructure, as I detail in my written 
testimony.
    Second, to Senator Scott's point, environmental permitting 
under the National Environmental Policy Act of 1970, or NEPA, 
remains cumbersome. As I and coauthors report in a 2023 
article, a typical Environmental Impact Statement, or EIS, 
under NEPA now takes about 4\1/2\ years to complete and is over 
600 pages long. Some EISs take more than a decade to complete.
    In an economic sector where time really is money, long 
schedules can significantly increase project costs. Permitting 
reforms in place in several other countries can be instructive 
as excellent models for the U.S. to implement, as I detail in 
my testimony.
    Third, provisions of the Build America, Buy America Act, or 
BABA, are inhibiting project delivery. We understand the 
motivation behind it, but they contribute to confusion amongst 
contractors and project developers. With the tighter BABA 
requirements, even minor products must be produced by U.S. 
companies to qualify for available Federal incentives. Those 
items, however, are often not available or are more expensive 
than the imported versions--adding to costs and time delays. 
Ensuring crystal-clear guidance regarding waivers under BABA is 
a key step, or could be a key step, in facilitating more 
efficient project delivery.
    There are, however, solid reasons for optimism in the 
infrastructure outlook. I believe we now have an opportunity 
for the private sector to take a larger role in financing U.S. 
infrastructure beyond that currently provide by the Federal 
Government.
    The BIL Act took steps to encourage greater private 
participation by increasing the national limit on Private 
Activity Bonds, or PABs, for qualified projects from a $15 
billion cap to a $30 billion cap. So, the spirit of the law was 
there.
    But more can be done. These arrangements that encourage 
public and private cooperation can bring American 
infrastructure delivery up to global standards through better 
cooperation. The core of such cooperation is a long-term 
contract between the public and private sectors, broadly known 
as a public-private partnership, or PPP. Those contracts are 
helpful, particularly for addressing deferred maintenance, in 
that they, typically, bundle or wrap the design and 
construction of a major infrastructure facility together with 
the operation and maintenance, or O&M, over the long term, such 
as 25 or 30 years. And that can include provisions to ensure 
proper maintenance.
    A properly structured PPP contract puts more of the risk of 
the time and cost overruns on the private partner rather than 
on the taxpayer. Such contracts can also include future-
proofing. Future-proofing refers to the risk of not adopting 
available innovative technologies well into the future. A 
future-proofed contract places that risk on the private 
partner; thus, ensuring that private capital, incentives, and 
expertise are deployed to make U.S. infrastructure as resilient 
as possible for decades to come.
    I believe Congress can take further steps to facilitate 
greater PPP use in the United States, which is behind every 
other developed country I know, by the way, in PPPs.
    One is to encourage States and regions to utilize PPP 
units, which are quasi-Government entities that assist the 
public sector in undertaking PPPs. Such units are well-
established around the world, including Australia, Canada, 
China, Egypt, India, Israel, Japan, and the United Kingdom, 
among many other countries.
    I believe that, with several key policy changes that I've 
described here, infrastructure projects can deliver long-term 
benefits and returns for all parties.
    Thank you very much for the opportunity to testify and I 
look forward to your questions.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Dr. Geddes.
    Mr. Knisley, I'll start with you.
    For decades, we've corporations follow the business model 
that pursued growth by closing factories, shipping jobs south, 
and then, overseas--always in search of cheaper wages. It's 
devastated the hometowns of each of us, of Lima and Mansfield.
    We've passed a bipartisan infrastructure law, in part, to 
create the types of jobs that corporations can't outsource. The 
number of construction workers in Ohio is at a 24-year high and 
growing every week.
    You note that, when people bring home a steady paycheck, 
the entire community feels the benefit. I love what you say 
about generational careers. Talk about how these projects 
create the kind of construction jobs that lead to these 
generational careers.
    Mr. Knisley. So, let's, if we could, talk about the CHIPS 
Act. Can we talk about that, Senator?
    Chair Brown. Sure. Of course.
    Mr. Knisley. So, the Intel factory, I worked intimately 
with the company as soon as the announcement was made in 
Newark, Ohio, in late January of 2022. And my job here in Ohio 
is to keep our 100,000 members to work every day through 
policies, and some politics with this, but also by working with 
the owners on this.
    And so, in the span of 3 months, myself and a small 
delegation went to Phoenix, Arizona, to the Ocotillo campus for 
Intel; to Portland, Oregon, the Hillsboro campus, and also, to 
Albuquerque at the Rio Rancho campus. And we did tour the 
factory and we saw the scale of what this does for not only 
construction workers, but what it does for the American public, 
reducing inflation, and for our defense, making sure that these 
chips are done here in the United States.
    But one thing that I found interesting by talking to the 
local workers there--and some of them had worked their entire 
careers; that was in my statement earlier--because of the 
commitment from companies like Intel that are not only 
innovative, but they're also changing their technology to stay 
competitive in that ultra-competitive market. It made a 
generational career for the pipefitter or the electrician or 
the sheet metal worker that was in that local community, and 
some of them actually had three generations on that project, 
due to this generational change that we're going to see the 
same thing in Columbus, Ohio.
    And so, because of the CHIPS Act, that has now created that 
same dynamic in Columbus. We're building the project right now. 
But we know that, right after, they call it, phase 1, which is 
two fabs, the CHIPS and Science Act actually created the 
opportunity for three more phases, or another $80 billion in 
investment in the Central Ohio region. We know that that will 
now create that same model that we saw in the three other 
regions across the United States.
    Chair Brown. Thank you.
    And we have talked a number of times, Mr. Knisley, about 
the Federal Government helping to support workers, especially 
young people considering entering the trades. So, I may ask you 
another question on the record later about that in writing, 
just because of time.
    Mr. Coes, before we passed the bipartisan infrastructure 
law, big projects moved slowly or didn't move at all. We had 
seemingly forgotten how to build things in this country. You 
know, that's why Senator Portman and I bipartisanly worked on 
this so much in Ohio, because we knew that it would actually 
result in speeding things up and making things happen.
    I want to talk to you about, briefly, Cleveland. The city's 
next transformational project is connecting downtown Cleveland 
to Lake Erie. Because of a large freeway and railroad tracks, 
and we know what interstate construction did dividing 
communities--often communities of color--because of that large 
freeway, because of the railroad tracks, generations of 
Clevelanders have grown up near the lake, but unable to access 
the lake. This project will help change that.
    If DOT's current Competitive Grant Programs don't continue, 
what happens to the transformational projects, like in one of 
America's great cities, like Cleveland, that our cities, 
counties, and States are developing?
    Mr. Coes. The short answer is those projects sit on the 
shelf. These grants provide not only capacity to local 
governments to partner with private sector--I know that 
particular project is working with Bedrock and so many other 
private sector interests--to think about how to do transformer 
projects.
    In addition to that, that means less people able to get 
jobs through these programs. We have seen already through the 
bipartisan infrastructure law how discretionary grants are 
taking these mega-complex projects, like the Brent Spence 
Bridge, from actually vision to actually execution.
    We are really excited that we're about to break ground on 
the Brent Spence fairly soon. But more importantly, it 
demonstrates that, within the Department of Transportation, we 
have the capacity to take local ideas, even for big projects, 
and actually get them approved through our NEPA process in a 
timely fashion; at the same time, getting dollars to the ground 
to give more workers on those projects.
    Chair Brown. Thank you.
    Connie and I live maybe five or six miles from Lake Erie. 
Those not exposed, who aren't lucky enough to live nearby the 
greatest body of freshwater in the world--which the Great Lakes 
is--might not see how important access to that lake is. And for 
far too many families, there are train tracks; there are 
highways that keep them from having access to that lake--for 
recreation, for all kinds of opportunities. So, your continuing 
that is really important.
    I just want to make one statement in response to Dr. 
Geddes, and sorry, this won't be a question. But I just wanted 
to thank you again for your testimony. How important it is to 
strengthen and update our infrastructure.
    Your testimony pointed out concerns about expanded Buy 
America requirements. They must be clear, I agree with you 
about that. But Buy America policy represents a simple choice 
in the iron, steel, and materials used in Federal 
infrastructure projects. In Ohio and South Carolina: made there 
or made in China. And I think it's pretty clear what the 
Americans want. If we're spending taxpayer dollars on 
infrastructure, I think the steel and pipe we use needs to be 
made in the United States.
    So, thank you, all three of you.
    Senator Scott.
    Senator Scott. Thank you.
    You know, I was talking in my opening statement, opening 
comments, about the fact that the impact of inflation has 
driven the cost of construction to the highest levels we've 
seen in the shortest period of time.
    I think about the Inflation Reduction Act that some 
continue to celebrate as somehow mitigating the impact in our 
country on inflation. It's still to me a bit backwards.
    One program within that IRA is the Greenhouse Gas Fund that 
has to get $27 billion out the door by September the 30th. And 
the way I look at it--Dr. Geddes is an economist--you know, if 
you rush $30 billion, $27 billion, out of the door in an 
already hot, over-artificially stimulated economy, the chances 
of it having a negative impact within the construction industry 
I think is pretty high personally.
    I think the fact of the matter is that the COVID relief 
package, the first bill passed by the Democrats, $1.9 trillion; 
the Inflation Reduction Act; the IIJA; the CHIPS Act, those 
resources flooding into the economy--some of it, not all of it, 
immediately--only helped impact the inflation that the average 
American has been feeling.
    So, from the macroeconomy perspective, the loss of spending 
power of the average American is around $28,000 cumulative over 
the last 3 to 3\1/2\ years. Can you please speak, Dr. Geddes, 
to the inflationary impacts regarding infrastructure, 
specifically, and this development because of the inflationary 
environment that we find ourselves in today?
    Mr. Geddes. Yes, thank you, Senator. I think it's two ways 
of approaching that.
    One would be from the macroeconomic theory that you 
mentioned. And you're stimulating demand in a highly supply 
constrained environment. And the theory implies that this is 
going to be inflationary.
    On the sort of empirical or statistical side, it's 
difficult to tease out the effects of a particular program on 
the overall inflation rate.
    Senator Scott. Yes.
    Mr. Geddes. But I think it's worth noting--maybe 
emphasizing a part of my testimony--to your original statement 
about how inflation in this sector, in the heavy civil 
construction sector, is higher.
    There's a block quote, in my written testimony, that I have 
from The Economist in November 2023 that says, ``The problem is 
that inflation has been rampant in the construction sector, 
making delays that much more pernicious. The single biggest 
component of the infrastructure package was a 50 percent 
increase in funding for highways to $350 billion over 5 years. 
But highway construction costs soared by more than 50 percent 
from the end of 2020 to the start of 2023--in effect, wiping 
out that extra funding.''
    So, the purchasing power effects are being diminished or 
wiped out by the added spending--or added inflation.
    Senator Scott. Thank you.
    Mr. Geddes. I added some more up-to-date numbers----
    Senator Scott. Yes?
    Mr. Geddes. ----on concrete costs, and so forth. And it's 
still higher than the Consumer Price Index.
    Senator Scott. I want to ask you a question about NEPA. But 
before I go there, I want to, once again, highlight programs 
that the Government continues to provide resources for, but 
they never actually spend the resources that they provide.
    As an example, back in 2021, Congress approved $42 billion 
to help connect more Americans to the internet, basically. I'm 
looking at a tweet that I saw and found. At this point, it had 
been 987 days since the plan was enacted and zero Americans had 
been connected; zero shovels worth of dirt had been turned, 
even though there had been $42 billion set aside for programs 
to help connect Americans. The challenge, of course, the 
Government rewards itself based on its intentions, not based on 
the actions that follow those intentions.
    You mentioned the cumbersome process that NEPA creates for 
getting shovel-ready projects started.
    Mr. Geddes. Uh-hum.
    Senator Scott. Would you expound for the rest of my time 
that I have?
    Mr. Geddes. Sure. So, NEPA had, again, very good 
intentions, I believe, when it was passed in 1970. It's grown 
over time. It's sort of, you know, a whole lot of things going 
on.
    Senator Scott. A web of confusion.
    Mr. Geddes. NEPA, it's grown administratively, and it's now 
become an extremely serious barrier to rapid project delivery.
    We're seeing that kind of delay in green projects where 
there's environmental groups that would like those projects to 
get out quickly, but then, they sort of run head-long into this 
cumbersome NEPA process.
    And I think it's time for reform. I should probably 
highlight this study that I have here that came out in the past 
few weeks by one of my heroes, Bob Poole at the Reason 
Foundation, who surveyed other countries and how they do their 
NEPA processes.
    Just to highlight, I could go--we don't have time--but I 
could go on across countries. Australia has sort of a one-stop 
shop for its environmental review and permitting process called 
the Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and 
Water. And they have strict time limits on how quickly their 
reviews of environmental permitting processes have to go. Like 
20 days for the first stage; 30 for the second. So, it is 
really a time-constrained process that still respects the 
desire to preserve the environment----
    Senator Scott. Yes.
    Mr. Geddes. ----as Australians do, but it doesn't have to 
be as long as it is in the United States.
    And as we know, Senator, time really is money in 
infrastructure.
    Senator Scott. Absolutely.
    Mr. Geddes. If you delay a project, it always goes up in 
cost.
    Senator Scott. Thank you.
    The last point--and I'm running out of time here--I would 
love for us, I'll submit it for the record, questions about the 
public-private partnerships that actually reduce costs, extends 
long-term maintenance, and puts part of the onus on the private 
sector.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Geddes. Thank you.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Senator Scott.
    Senator Reed of Rhode Island is recognized.
    Senator Reed. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you, gentlemen, for your testimony.
    And Under Secretary Coes, we are seeing a lot of activity 
in Rhode Island. In fact, we recently had a call from Secretary 
Buttigieg informing us we received $251 million for a large 
bridge grant, which will address 15 high-need bridges along 
Route 95.
    And we're also seeing people working, and working at very, 
very good wages. So, this is, I think, a good program for 
middle-class American workers and, also, for overdue 
infrastructure. And our infrastructure needs were way overdue.
    Could you tell us how, generally, how this project is 
improving infrastructure all throughout the country?
    Mr. Coes. Thank you, Senator.
    You're absolutely right. We just this past month announced 
one of our big bridge improvement programs that is actually 
addressing some of the critical needs that we're seeing in 
bridges across the country that are in a state of good repair.
    We believe these investments would not have happened 
without the bipartisan infrastructure law. And these 
investments are not only allowing us to hire workers from 
neighborhoods, but also allowing us to ensure freight 
resiliency and, also, allowing everyday Americans to ensure 
that they can get home safely.
    We also are seeing that the private sector is also looking 
at other projects, working in tandem with local governments. 
For example, we are very close to doing a major groundbreaking 
with the Brightline West high-speed rail, which, again, would 
not have happened without the bipartisan infrastructure law.
    So, those are just two examples of how working in tandem, 
these investments are really being transformative in 
communities.
    Senator Reed. And all of this work makes transportation 
more efficient, I presume. And second, it also is matched many 
times by private development, either directly in the project or 
very near the project, since the highways are opened up and 
it's more flexibility and more opportunity. Is that accurate?
    Mr. Coes. That is absolutely true, as noted. In addition to 
the bipartisan infrastructure law, we're seeing major 
investments through the CHIPS program, where we're seeing major 
private sector investments for new chip manufacturing, as well 
as EV manufacturing, locating near these new, improved 
infrastructure assets.
    Senator Reed. And, Mr. Knisley, how is this helping workers 
in the industry?
    Mr. Knisley. Senator Reed, workers are benefiting from all 
the legislation over the past couple of years that has come out 
of Washington. When you look at infrastructure, that's a little 
bit longer-term maybe than what you would see with an EV plant 
or even the chips side.
    But what you're creating in a time where demographics are 
working against all of us, and including the construction 
industry, it's created generational change for generational 
careers for young people. And I don't think they've seen that 
type of optimism come out for quite some time.
    I can't overstate the fact--and it was in my final 
comments--that good policies come out D.C. and create great 
outcomes in every local community. It just does, whether you're 
putting, from the transportation side, new blacktop coming 
down, or for a long-term, 30-plus generational career at a 
chips manufacturing plant.
    We anticipate our growth in the State of Ohio, even 
factoring in attrition with the retirements and deaths, to move 
from 100,000 men and women that put a hard hat on and work in 
union construction every day in Ohio to somewhere between 
115,000 and 125,000 over the next generation for this.
    Senator Reed. Thank you.
    And, Secretary Coes, I could not leave here without 
mentioning the Washington Bridge, which I'm sure you've heard 
of, a section of 195 that goes between Providence and East 
Providence, essentially, the metropolitan area of Providence. 
The eastward-bound bridge had to be closed before it would 
collapse, and we are seeking support for efforts to repair it.
    But it brings up the question of the Mega Grant Program 
and, also, the Large Bridge Grant Program. And they have been 
helping States really in a significant way. We hope it will 
help Rhode Island eventually.
    But can you comment on the role these programs have played?
    Mr. Coes. Senator, first, I want to acknowledge, yes, we 
are aware of the application and will definitely give it due 
consideration. And again, we'll continue to provide technical 
assistance to the project sponsor as we go through this 
process.
    But you're absolutely right to call out that the Mega 
Program, specifically, as well as a number of our major 
discretionary grants, allows us to move major complex projects 
faster. If we did not have these resources, many of these 
projects would take more time, which means they would cost more 
money. But, more important, the benefits, whether it's reducing 
air pollution; greater accessibility; again, safety, whether 
it's from the freight corridors, but also to passengers, would 
not happen. That's why these investments are so critical today.
    Senator Reed. Thank you very much.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Brown. Thanks, Senator Reed.
    Senator Van Hollen of Maryland is recognized.
    Senator Van Hollen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank all of you for your testimony here today.
    Secretary Coes, I want to start with some thank you's to 
President Biden, Secretary Buttigieg, and yourself on the 
really great, fast Federal response to the collapse of the Key 
Bridge, a huge tragedy, of course, for Baltimore City, our 
State, and had national implications. We're grateful for the 
fact that we were quickly enrolled in the Emergency Relief 
Program, the $60 million for traffic mitigation, and, of 
course, other Federal agencies that helped clear the channel 
and open the port.
    But, obviously, now we want to move forward with the 
reconstruction and are really pleased to see the President's 
disaster supplemental that includes $3.2 billion for the 
Emergency Relief Program, and we look forward to working with 
you on that to try to make sure we get it through the Congress 
just as quickly as possible.
    I will say that, if that had also been a transit route over 
the bridge, it, obviously, would have been even a bigger 
catastrophe in terms of transportation. So, I do think we need 
to be looking in Congress at an Emergency Relief Program that 
applies not just to bridges and other transportation, sort of 
roads, but also to transit.
    And another thing I just wanted to flag is I've been 
working on the Moving Transit Forward Act with Senator 
Fetterman, which would address some of the operational sides of 
the expenses and costs for States.
    I know your budget, as you proposed it, allows metro 
systems around the country to use their funds for either 
operations or capital, and I think that's a good direction to 
go and we want to build on that.
    Thank you, also, for attending a gathering earlier last 
year, I think----
    Mr. Coes. Uh-hum.
    Senator Van Hollen. ----with Governor Moore, Senator 
Cardin, and myself, and Congressman Mfume on the Red Line.
    And obviously, the bipartisan infrastructure law has been 
mentioned a couple of times this morning, but I just want to 
remind you--and I know you're aware of it--that that bill has a 
provision in it, and I am quoting from that bill, ``The 
Secretary shall provide full and fair consideration to projects 
that seek an updated rating after a period of inactivity 
following an earlier rating and evaluation.'' End quote from 
the statute.
    So, would you agree that the previous work done by MDOT and 
FTA in support of the Baltimore Red Line Project should not be 
wasted, and that once submitted to FTA, the Red Line Project 
should be able to receive a rating more quickly, given all the 
previous work that had been done?
    Mr. Coes. Senator, I will just say, as I said previously 
when we were together in Baltimore, you have my commitment to 
working with the State and Baltimore to get this project across 
the finish line. And, yes, we do agree that the information and 
effort that had been previously done should be part of the 
process. And that's why I'm pleased to say that, even as of 
today, FTA is working closely with the State and the transit 
agency to do that, just that. So, we hope that in the near term 
we'll have something more positive to say.
    Senator Van Hollen. No, I appreciate that. Just for my 
colleague's benefit, our previous Governor pulled the plug on 
the Baltimore City Red Line after it had already gone through 
all the reviews and approval. Essentially, Maryland sent close 
to a billion dollars to the rest of the country. But, as part 
of the infrastructure bill, we included this language, and 
under the current Governor, Governor Moore, and the city, we're 
all moving together to get the Red Line on track, literally.
    I would just like to also ask you, Secretary Coes, about 
some of the transportation safety issues. We had included in 
the infrastructure modernization bill provisions from the bill 
that I had introduced that deal with transit safety, 
establishing the safety committees to identify safety risks. 
And I understand that the Department and the FTA are close to 
finalizing a general directive to transit agencies to address, 
specifically, assaults on transit workers. That's a piece of 
this overall safety plan.
    Action on these issues cannot come fast enough. Last year 
when we had this hearing, I actually had a witness from the 
Baltimore Transit Union and that morning he had been in the 
hospital with a transit work who had been assaulted, stabbed.
    So, what is the timeline for finalizing the general 
directive and additional rulemakings to protect workers and 
riders from assault?
    Mr. Coes. Senator, as you know, immediately after the 
enactment of bipartisan infrastructure law, the FTA sent out an 
immediate ``Dear Colleague'' letter to every transit agency 
letting them know that they needed to stand up their own safety 
committees.
    Since then, I can tell you 100 percent of the transit 
agencies are in compliance. In addition, as you mentioned, we 
have put out a draft, a general directive. We have now received 
those comments. We are hoping in the next couple of months that 
we will be able finalize those comments, and then, go out 
publicly with the final directive.
    Senator Van Hollen. I appreciate that. Thank you. And I may 
have some followup questions for the record.
    Mr. Coes. Absolutely.
    Senator Van Hollen. But thank you. Thank you all.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Senator Van Hollen.
    Senator Smith of Minnesota.
    Senator Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    And welcome to all of you. Thanks so much for joining us 
today.
    So, I want to focus my questions to you, Mr. Coes. And I'm 
going to focus for a minute on rural transit.
    So, I chair the Transit Subcommittee and I also represent a 
State with large communities, many communities of rural places 
and small towns. And I know that, mostly, when we talk about 
transit, as my good friend from Maryland has--you know, when we 
think about what goes on in big cities, we think about big 
buses and trains. But, of course, we know there's an incredibly 
important network of rural transit agencies across the country, 
including in Minnesota.
    And we also know that the bipartisan infrastructure law 
puts significant new resources into rural transit and increased 
funding for programs like bus grants and low and no grants that 
really benefit rural agencies as well.
    Minnesota has received two of these grants from the FTA for 
rural transit. One for SMART, which is based in Austin, 
Minnesota, to build two new transit facilities, and one for 
UCAP and Friendly Rider Transit to buy propane buses, and then, 
install the fueling infrastructure that they need.
    So, I think that one of the best things about the 
bipartisan Infrastructure and Jobs Act is that it is lifting up 
all of these communities, including rural communities, that 
often have many people who rely on transit to get around.
    So, could you just give us sort at a high level what your 
view is of how the Biden infrastructure law has really 
supported rural transit around the country?
    Mr. Coes. Senator, thank you for that question and, also, 
your leadership on this topic.
    As someone who grew up in rural southwest Georgia with a 
mother who was disabled, I know firsthand the importance of 
rural transit. Being able to get an elderly grandmother to a 
doctor's appointment, or just being able to take a father to a 
veterans' hospital without having a car, rural transit was a 
lifeline.
    So, I can tell you, because of the bipartisan 
infrastructure law, we've now seen historic resources going 
directly to rural transit through formula dollars, but also 
through our discretionary dollars. We have now over $11 billion 
of the bipartisan infrastructure law, which represents close to 
$35 billion of resources, going directly to meet the unique 
needs of rural communities. That would not have happened 
without the bipartisan infrastructure law.
    Senator Smith. Thank you.
    I think it just illustrates how this law has helped so many 
rural communities in so many ways. And I also know that rural 
transit authorities tend to be small; they're scrappy; they're 
very innovative, and they don't have a big grants department--
--
    Mr. Coes. That's correct.
    Senator Smith. ----that they can rely on to go and chase 
these Federal dollars.
    So, I know that you all have put a lot of time and energy 
into figuring out how to help rural transit authorities 
navigate through these different Federal grant opportunities 
and reporting requirements that also follow. Could you just 
tell us a little bit about that work? Because I think it's 
important for people to understand.
    Mr. Coes. Absolutely. We have stood up within the 
Department a number of rural-specific programs to provide 
direct technical assistance. We have a $20 million technical 
assistance program directly for rural and tribal communities to 
not only understand how to navigate the Federal process, but 
also how to deliver a project. Because sometimes that rural 
mayor or that transit department may be also the planner.
    Senator Smith. Right.
    Mr. Coes. They also might be doing five other jobs. And so, 
the Federal Government can't just be on the sidelines; we want 
to be a partner.
    In addition to that, we also know that we want to support 
rural communities as we prepare for the 21st century. We have a 
stood up a new rural EV toolkit that provides rural communities 
the step-by-step process to make sure that they're not left 
behind with the electrical vehicle revolution.
    But, also, we're seeing amazing innovation where rural 
communities, working with State DOTs, are partnering with 
private companies. For example, we awarded $9 million to the 
North Carolina DOT to partner with nine rural counties and Via 
to provide on-demand services for those residents. That's just 
an example of how we can meet the needs, but also prepare rural 
communities. And that's what the bipartisan infrastructure law 
allows us to do.
    Senator Smith. I really appreciate that. I also appreciate 
you highlighting the innovation that we see happening in these 
rural transit agencies that have to be creative----
    Mr. Coes. Uh-hum.
    Senator Smith. ----because the models that might work in a 
larger city are just not going to work there.
    Mr. Coes. Exactly.
    Senator Smith. And so, they are doing some pretty 
incredible work to make sure that people can get around and can 
be connected.
    Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
    Chair Brown. Thanks, Senator Smith. I thank you for your 
comments about transit.
    Senator Cramer is coming back. So, I'm going to go a bit of 
a second round until he does.
    And, Under Secretary Coes, I appreciate what you have said 
about transit-oriented development. One of the wonderful things 
about getting to chair this Committee, when I took it over, 
it's always been called Housing and Urban Development--I'm 
sorry--Banking, Housing, and Urban Development. It was really 
the Committee that took care of Wall Street until I became 
chair. And we have emphasized sometimes--and Senator Smith does 
that--sometimes calls it Housing and Banking.
    But one of the focuses of this Committee is public transit, 
and there isn't nearly enough interest in this town in public 
transit. It gets a whole lot of people, particularly moderate-
income people, to work.
    I remember a story. I was in Cincinnati one day and their 
public transit system was called SORTA. And I talked to the 
leader of the transit system who was struggling with keeping 
some additional routes that are there during the week, but 
routes that they don't have enough ridership for the weekend.
    And there was a young woman who worked at a moderate $10 or 
$12, $13-an-hour job, and the transit system--she had to work; 
she had to work on Saturday--the transit system didn't run on 
Saturday. So, she had to Uber to work on Saturday. She talked 
to her boss, and her boss said, ``You've got to come in on the 
weekend. That's the way it is if you want to keep this job.'' 
And she had to Uber to work on Saturday, which ate up most of 
her income. So, one of the things we were able to do is expand 
the service, the SORTA service.
    So, Senator Cramer just entered. I'll turn to him in a 
second.
    But I like what you said about the opportunity for new 
housing construction near transit developments. That's really 
important in all the big cities and the moderate-size cities in 
my State. And what DOT can do to support such transit-oriented 
development and transit-oriented development can bring 
opportunities to those communities, again, especially those 
communities that in the '60s, '70s, and '80s were, essentially, 
almost demolished for interstate highways.
    And I look to any of the major cities in my State, 
particularly Columbus, where the number of people living in a 
neighborhood on the east side of Columbus, mostly African 
American, shrunk by about two-thirds because the highway went 
through, disrupting, cutting, demolishing businesses, 
demolishing people's homes. They had to move elsewhere. The 
community's vitality was, essentially, sapped and wasn't able 
to rebuild. So, always thinking about those issues.
    So, thank you for that.
    Senator Cramer from North Dakota is recognized.
    Senator Cramer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And thank you to the witnesses for being here.
    Mr. Coes, I'm going to initiate a conversation with you 
that will play off a little bit, I think, on your conversation 
with Senator Van Hollen relating to formula fixes. I'm looking 
for some potential fixes.
    To a challenge I just learned about recently, I was at a 
groundbreaking ceremony for an expansion of the Hector 
International Airport in Fargo. And Fargo, of course, is our 
most populous city in North Dakota. And the mayor, Mayor Tim 
Mahoney, came up to me, and that's one of the great things 
about a small place, the mayor talks right to you. He's better 
than any lobbyist, just so you know, and I love my lobbyist 
friends.
    But he brought this to my attention, that Fargo had gone--
you know, they had one more baby or something and went from 
199,999 people to 200,000. So, you already know where I'm 
going. And he noticed this reduction in the formula funding, or 
at least in the amount that Fargo got.
    Now, it gets a little more nuanced than that, and I'm sure 
you're familiar with that. Because they went from an MPO to a 
TMA in the transit funding. And by the way, just so you know--
and I think this gets back to your previous discussion with 
Senator Van Hollen--the formula changes, of course, but not 
just the formula; you know, the flexibility for the community 
to use the money the way they were using it, which, in this 
case of Fargo, was for operational expenses.
    And not understanding all of the fungibility of cash and 
all the ways you maybe could do this, he was just asking for 
help. And so, as we dug into it a little more, we learned that 
there are, in fact, rules/laws that govern how you can 
distribute these funds, the transit funds, based on the size of 
a community.
    My concern is that there's a little bit of a perverse 
incentive in that formula that actually discourages growth. And 
we don't want that, I don't think, on the one hand. On the 
other hand, maybe there's a rational reason for it.
    My ask of you is just I describe this situation. I tell you 
this story, and then, maybe just see if you have some thoughts 
about it; ideas on how we could, either legislatively or 
through a budget process or, you know, whatever discretion the 
agency would have to sort of not punish communities like Fargo, 
and see if there's a better way to do this.
    Mr. Coes. Oh, Senator Cramer, thank you for bringing that 
issue here--not only to my attention, but I know this is one 
that is shared within our building.
    Senator Cramer. Sure.
    Mr. Coes. Communities need to be able to meet their needs. 
And we believe that, whether it's through the formula program 
or even from our discretionary grants, we should be able to 
give them as much flexibility to achieve those goals.
    We do believe, and as I was discussing with Senator Van 
Hollen, that transit agencies, particularly coming out of 
COVID, are recognizing that travel patterns are different.
    Senator Cramer. Sure.
    Mr. Coes. We're seeing that now developers want to build 
near transit and create more walkable communities. We need to 
give transit agencies their ability to leverage not only the 
pent-up demand that they're seeing in the private market, but 
also the unique needs of their residents, as we deal with these 
travel demands.
    So, we would love to work with you, as we said with Senator 
Van Hollen, to look at how we can make sure the formula 
programs, particularly on the transit side, particularly these 
larger systems, have the flexibility they need to meet the 
changing environment, which, again, comes back to people want 
to live in great quality neighborhoods.
    Senator Cramer. Sure. And I love that you refer to them as 
larger communities because we kind of consider Fargo to be 
larger than the small ones----
    Mr. Coes. Right.
    Senator Cramer. ----but smaller than the large ones.
    Mr. Coes. That's what they say about Thomasville, my 
hometown.
    Senator Cramer. Right.
    Mr. Coes. We're still a small town.
    Senator Cramer. Yes. That's the flexibility which I really 
appreciate. And quite honestly, and I know we've been talking--
obviously, we're talking about the bipartisan infrastructure 
law, which I not only supported and voted for, but championed. 
And the formula issues of all the distribution of funds is 
really important to small States, right? We can't sort of 
reserve 100 miles for gravel in the middle of an Interstate 
Highway System.
    But, similarly, for our communities, where you have 
populations that certainly depend on good transit systems, we 
just want it to be, to your point, be successful and we want 
the communities to be successful.
    So, to the degree there's legislative fixes that are 
necessary, maybe Chris and I could work together with you on 
some of that, right?
    Mr. Coes. Yes.
    Senator Cramer. And then, where there's flexibility within 
the agency, we would sure encourage that as well.
    Mr. Coes. Absolutely.
    Senator Cramer. And, Mr. Chairman, that's all I have. Thank 
you. Thank you.
    Chair Brown. Senator Cramer, thank you for the thoughtful 
questions and the followup. And it was worth stalling a little 
to wait for you to get back here.
    [Laughter.]
    So, thank you for making us all think about these important 
issues.
    Thanks to the three witnesses today. It shows we're making 
progress in long overdue investments in infrastructure and the 
men and women of the construction workforce leading the way.
    And I love thinking about that bridge I mentioned. We have 
much more to do in the years ahead. I'll keep working with U.S. 
DOT--thank you for that--and others at your department, on Ohio 
priorities like replacing more bridges, building big projects 
like the North Coast Connector in Cleveland. I'm going to keep 
reminding you of that.
    We'll continue working with the building trades to ensure 
that our transportation infrastructure and manufacturing 
sector, as you pointed out, Mr. Knisley, are making the 
Nation's economy stronger, more competitive, and delivers more 
of the generational jobs that you talked about.
    Thanks for the witnesses for testimony today.
    For Senators who wish to submit questions for the hearing 
record, those questions are due 1 week from today, Wednesday, 
August 7th, and witnesses have 45 days from that day to follow 
up with answers. So, best wishes. Thank you all.
    The Committee is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:14 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
    [Prepared statements and responses to written questions 
supplied for the record follow:]
               PREPARED STATEMENT OF CHAIR SHERROD BROWN
    For too long, too many people in Ohio and across the Nation 
thought, for good reason, that their leaders had given up making our 
infrastructure and manufacturing base the best in the world.
    Congress' inaction and the empty promises of Presidents of both 
parties left Americans to fend for themselves as they swerved to avoid 
ever bigger potholes, and as they bypassed dilapidated bridges, and as 
they dodged chunks of concrete falling from decaying overpasses, and as 
they waited longer and longer for buses that were getting older and 
older.
    Americans saw the consequences of years of inaction.
    And they watched as other countries--our competitors and our 
adversaries alike--added high speed rail, built better roads, upgraded 
their water and sewer, installed 5G networks.
    Our failing infrastructure was only compounded by a misguided tax 
and trade policy that shuttered factories in places like Zanesville, 
Mansfield, and Chillicothe and jobs shipped overseas.
    At last week's hearing, I talked about how our economy and national 
security interests are interconnected.
    Ensuring that the United States leads the world in producing 
semiconductor chips is critical to both our entire economy and our 
national security.
    Because of the work of many of the Senators on this Committee, we 
passed the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and the Chips and Science Act.
    But people don't really care that we passed a bill. They care about 
results. So today, let's look at the results:
    More than 60,000 infrastructure projects are already underway 
across the country, because of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.
    These projects are improving 165,000 miles of road. More than 9,400 
bridges are getting repaired.
    Every State is benefiting. The Mobile River Bridge in Alabama is 
getting improvements. Rural and Tribal communities in Minnesota, Idaho, 
and other States are getting new buses and vans. We are making bus and 
rail stations that were built before the Americans with Disabilities 
Act finally accessible in places like Philadelphia and Cleveland.
    Six years ago, Rob Portman and I introduced the Bridge Investment 
Act, to replace or repair the hundreds of bridges in Ohio and thousands 
around the country that in many cases had not had serious repairs in 
decades.
    And now, because of the years of work we did that culminated in the 
Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, we are finally, finally building a new 
Brent Spence companion bridge.
    And we are replacing the 90-year old Western Hills Viaduct, which 
is crucial to Cincinnati.
    Brent Spence is a critical link in the supply chain network, 
transporting 160,000 cars and trucks and $2 billion in goods every 
day--that's 3 percent of the country's entire GDP. And it's part of the 
fabric of the city in Cincinnati, helping to create the vibrancy of one 
of America's great cities.
    But Ohioans know the old Brent Spence is as dated as it is 
dangerously crowded, and we've heard from Ohioans who are concerned 
about concrete crumbling on the Western Hills Viaduct.
    We are fixing that, and we are seeing new construction across 
Ohio--and it's not just huge projects like the Brent Spence and the 
Intel Fabs in Licking County.
    We are seeing major upgrades to streets and bridges across Ohio, 
including Ohio's rural counties and Appalachia. We announced this month 
that the Market Street Bridge, which connects Steubenville with West 
Virginia, will finally be replaced.
    We are also making critical investments to modernize public 
transit.
    Americans take 21 million trips on transit every day. And when 
buses and trains and all the infrastructure required to operate them 
are not up to date, service is slower and less reliable.
    Imagine driving the same car every single day for 40 years. That's 
what operators on Cleveland's RTA have been doing for years.
    In Cleveland, I met with workers whose job it is to maintain rail 
cars that date back to the Reagan administration. At the rail car 
garage on the East Side of Cleveland, you actually see these workers 
machining replacement parts for cars that are so old, that's the only 
way to get the parts--they don't make them anymore.
    But now, finally, because of the Infrastructure law, Cleveland will 
get 60 new rail cars.
    And we all know the U.S. lacks a robust national passenger rail 
network that other major economic powers have. We are changing that.
    We're seeing construction of new facilities to improve transit and 
rail service, like Akron Metro's new maintenance facility and a new 
Amtrak station in Bryan, Ohio.
    We also know how crucial manufacturing and innovation are to our 
economy.
    Today, modern infrastructure is driven by information technology.
    The microchips that power our machines and computers are the 
product of American design and ingenuity--but we have become dependent 
on other countries for the production. 90 percent of the chips we 
invented are now made overseas.
    Taiwan is dominant today. Alarmingly, China is trying to become 
dominant tomorrow.
    We wrote the CHIPS and Science Act to change the trajectory.
    It's allowing us to build a new generation of chip production 
factories in Ohio and around the country.
    All of these investments are growing our economy and creating jobs 
and opportunity.
    In the past 3 years, we have added 670,000 construction jobs to the 
U.S. economy. This is only the start--hiring is expected to pick up 
even more in the coming years, as more and bigger projects get 
underway.
    And that doesn't even take into account the jobs throughout the 
manufacturing supply chain, because we made sure these laws have the 
strongest ``Buy America'' rules ever.
    The steel, iron, pipes and other construction materials used in 
these projects are being made in Ohio and across the U.S., by American 
workers--not imported from China.
    Whether they're pipefitters or bricklayers or ironworkers or 
steelworkers--these are good, middle class jobs with high wages and on-
the-job training opportunities, where you can develop a craft and build 
a career.
    Few understand that better than one of our witnesses today, Mike 
Knisley, Secretary and Treasurer of the Ohio State Building and 
Construction Trades Council.
    Mike represents the men and women who are doing the real work on 
these projects. I was at an event last summer with Mike in Columbus--it 
was a graduation for a training program that places workers directly 
into union apprenticeships in the Trades. It's creating opportunity for 
so many people who haven't had a lot of it before.
    Every one of those graduates had on T-shirts that said in big 
letters on the back, ``Direct Path to the Middle Class''.
    That is what the jobs are that we're creating--a direct path to the 
middle class. This is how you build an economy that upholds the dignity 
of work.
                                 ______
                                 
                PREPARED STATEMENT OF SENATOR TIM SCOTT
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to the witnesses for being with 
us today. Thank you for the Committee Members who are here with us as 
well.
    One of the challenges I see on this conversation that we're having 
today is to realize that local problems need local solutions. It's 
really hard for folks in Washington, DC, to understand the transit 
needs of folks in Charleston, South Carolina, Summerville, South 
Carolina, Columbus, Ohio, or Chicago, Illinois.
    The most effective thing that we can do is make sure that the 
resourcing goes without all the red tape and challenges that comes from 
Washington, DC. Getting that done seems to be too close to Peter 
walking on the water. Nearly a miraculous occurrence and manifestation 
has to happen for us to just do the simple thing.
    I spent half my career in politics on the local level, 
understanding and appreciating transit systems, infrastructure 
projects, and what it takes to get those things done.
    When I first became a senator, the one thing I did was, I decided 
that as a kid who grew up in a single parent household mired in 
poverty, who understood the transit needs of the poorest Americans 
trying to get to the job, I wanted to make sure that I was sensitive to 
the current state of Americans trying to get to work, so I decided I'd 
go back to the old bus routes and get on those bus routes and spend 
time talking to people waiting on the bus to come.
    I remember talking to a grandmother who worked at Walmart, who 
wanted to spend more time with her grandkids on the weekends, but she 
would spend 80 to 90 minutes early in the morning waiting on the bus, 
seven hours at work, and 80 or 90 minutes to get back home. Three hours 
to work a 7-hour shift for slightly more than minimum wage to provide 
the resources necessary to help our grandkids have a better life and a 
better opportunity to experience and enjoy the American Dream. Having 
the conversations with folks who are struggling to make ends meet, 
thinking about how challenging it is as a local official to understand 
and then to decide the right transit routes, so that the folks who need 
public transportation have access to the right routes at the right 
times to get to the right job. You just can't do that from Washington.
    The one thing Washington has done poorly is to put on more onerous 
burdens on local government and State government, because somehow 535 
people in Washington seem to know everything about local needs, and yet 
we seem to know nothing about getting the job done.
    As an example, my friends on the left are always looking for a 
``new green steal.'' They call it the New Green Deal, but in the end it 
steals opportunity and innovation, creativity, and resources from local 
folks to make good decisions about what they need. But it's not just 
transit--it's actually the infrastructure needs that are delayed time 
and time again.
    I was thinking about this recently and it takes about 7 years--
seven years--for a project to turn the shovel on a new highway program.
    I think about Highway 17 and its expansion in Mount Pleasant in 
South Carolina a number of years ago. The frustration I felt as the 
chairman of the county, waiting for all the red tape to be cut so that 
we could simply turn a shovel on a project that had been approved for 
years. And I sent some notes to my friends back on county council just 
to make sure that I was right about the 7-year process.
    It could take up to 2 years for the planning and the programing 
just to meet Federal threshold so that projects can start. And then 
after you do that, it can take up to 3 years, whether it's NEPA or 
other environmental challenges through the Green New Steel. On top of 
all of that, you recognize that this onerous burden to start a road 
project takes 7 years.
    Now, here's the challenging part. When you get the price of a 
highway project, let's say those days, it was several hundred million 
dollars, $700 million. It's not anticipated that 7 years later, 
somehow, someway, miraculously, that same road project is going to cost 
the same amount of money 7 years later. That's what we call in South 
Carolina--ridiculous, hogwash. It just doesn't work that way.
    But none of that is anticipated in the actual price that people 
pay. Waiting and waiting and waiting for the Federal Government just to 
do their jobs and get out the way. But then after you get through the 
environmental review and compliance, which 3 years later, then you go 
to the preliminary final design--up to 2 more years on this process.
    And at the same time of this is happening, currently under the 
Biden administration, everybody wants to celebrate the IJA and the 
I.R.A., the most ridiculously named bill in maybe American history, the 
Inflation Reduction Act--that actually increases inflation--and the 
Chips and Science Act.
    What happens? Well, the cost of construction explodes to the 
highest level ever. It costs more money to do the same thing than it 
has ever cost--three or 4 years later.
    And so when you take a 7-year delay on a road, you take all of the 
impacts studies that is that it takes. We're not smart enough to do 
them all at the exact same time. We're going to wait for the first 2 
years before we start the environmental impact studies, before we start 
the. if this was a business we would just fire everybody.
    That's what I would do. That's what I did when I was in business. 
If you can't, if it takes you 7 years to get something started, I want 
a new--I want somebody else in charge. Americans want someone else in 
charge because the $2 billion problem that they have in Maryland to 
rebuild a road--a bridge--that's going to take 4 years is ridiculous. 
Unnecessary.
    All you need is common sense and people ready to go to work. And 
unfortunately, every time well-intentioned politicians made the 
decision that we know better than the local community, it costs jobs. 
It costs prices because they explode. I gotta tell you, 13 years on the 
local level is a really good education on what not to do.
    Let's not burden local government with the Green New Steal--that 
$7.5 billion in green funding that resolves to only eight EV charging 
stations--that takes all those dollars away from being able to have 
real progress on real roads for real people to get to their jobs.
    Mr. Chairman, I'm glad we're having the hearing today. But I got to 
tell you, most Americans would say, skip the hearing block, block grant 
the money, and let a brother go to work.
    That's what they would say.
                                 ______
                                 
               PREPARED STATEMENT OF CHRISTOPHER A. COES
  Acting Under Secretary of Transportation for Policy, Department of 
                             Transportation
                             July 31, 2024
    Chairman Brown, Ranking Member Scott, and Members of the Committee, 
thank you for the opportunity to testify today and for your leadership 
and partnership as we work to deliver projects to build a stronger, 
safer transportation system that connects the American people to jobs, 
to housing, to educational opportunities, and to one another.
    DOT has been working tirelessly executing the vision of the 
Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (IIJA). Because of this 
generational investment, the Biden-Harris administration has announced 
$461 billion of awards, funding over 60,000 specific projects in all 50 
States, D.C., the territories, and for Tribes. As I travel across the 
country, these headlines don't come close to telling the full story 
about IIJA's significance.
    Nationally, 47 percent of the U.S. population spend more than 15 
percent of their annual income on transportation. IIJA isn't just an 
investment in infrastructure, it's an investment in our economy and 
workforce, in housing, and in our Nation's families. IIJA has allowed 
us to invest over $91 billion into restoring and upgrading our Nation's 
transit service, creating thousands of jobs, and expanding access to 
even more. Bringing transportation, jobs, and housing together improves 
access to transportation while supporting local and regional economic 
development. In April, FTA announced the award of nearly $18 million to 
20 projects in 16 States in Transit Oriented Development discretionary 
funds to support community efforts to improve access and increase 
affordable housing near transit.
    It's also critical that transit is available to everyone, 
regardless of ability. That's why the All Stations Accessibility 
Program (ASAP) is so important, allowing us to upgrade and modernize 
legacy transit stations built before the Americans with Disabilities 
Act of 1990 so they are accessible to people with disabilities. Last 
month, we saw the groundbreaking for the first project to reach 
construction under this program--an upgrade to six transit stations in 
Philadelphia to make them fully accessible and provide access to 
everyday destinations.
    We're also investing in projects to reconnect communities, 
including through the Reconnecting Communities and Neighborhoods (RCN) 
Program. For example, in Columbus, Ohio, we're funding the development 
of a bus rapid transit (BRT) corridor along West Broad Street, which 
currently divides disadvantaged communities and is one of the most 
dangerous roadways in Ohio. Once completed, we expect that the 
availability of a reliable BRT system will result in more affordable 
mobility options, fewer pedestrian deaths, and greater private 
investment along the corridor. This project is just one example of how 
the transit investments are helping transform disadvantaged communities 
into thriving ones.
    More broadly, we're exceeding our Justice40-covered programs goal, 
with 55 percent of the benefits from awards going to disadvantaged 
communities, particularly rural and Tribal. For example, at the border 
of Montana and Idaho, we're funding the rehabilitation of a critical 
segment of Interstate 90 to enable it to better withstand increased 
harsh weather events and make it safer and more reliable for travelers 
and vulnerable populations nearby. We're also replacing rural bridges 
in South Carolina that are disrupting vital farm-to-market and 
commercial freight routes with existing load restrictions due to their 
age and condition.
    In March, we experienced a painful reminder of the criticality of 
our Nation's bridges to our daily lives and to our economy when the 
Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore collapsed after being struck by a 
container ship. We worked rapidly with multiple partners to reopen the 
Federal channel and Port of Baltimore in less than 100 days and 
continue to work with them on rebuilding the Key Bridge. Even before 
that incident, we have been working with communities across the country 
to rehabilitate and replace aging critical bridges. Earlier this month, 
DOT awarded more than $5 billion to support 13 large bridge 
construction projects, including $251 million for the I-95 Bridge over 
Lake Marion in South Carolina, $550 million for the I-10 Mobile River 
Bridge in Alabama, and $251 million to repair a cluster of bridges on 
I-95 in Rhode Island, to name a few. These will join significant 
projects that are already underway. For instance, we expect 
construction to begin soon on upgrades to the Brent Spence Bridge at 
the border between Ohio and Kentucky, which carries $400 billion in 
freight across the Ohio River each year.
    I'm excited to see some of the earliest IIJA investments break 
ground, begin construction, and start to deliver benefits for the 
communities that they serve. We are doing our part to accelerate 
projects, including establishing a new Project Delivery Center of 
Excellence, streamlining processes by simplifying and combining 
complementary notices of funding opportunity (NOFOs), and providing 
extensive technical assistance, especially for rural and Tribal 
communities. On behalf of Secretary Buttigieg and the entire 
Department, we appreciate your ongoing partnership and shared 
commitment to delivering a world-class transportation system for the 
American people.
    Thank you and I look forward to your questions.
                                 ______
                                 
                 PREPARED STATEMENT OF MICHAEL KNISLEY
Executive Secretary and Treasurer, Ohio State Building and Construction 
                             Trades Council
                             July 31, 2024
    Good morning, Chairman Brown, Ranking Member Scott, and Members of 
the Committee. Thank you for your leadership on building a resilient 
economy for American workers and their communities through Federal 
investment.
    My name is Mike Knisley. I'm here to testify on the impact that 
Federal investments are having on the 100,000 men and women that I 
represent as Executive Secretary-Treasurer of the Ohio State Building 
and Construction Trades Council.
    In our nearly 60 years as a Building Trades Council: There's never 
been a brighter future for the Tradespeople who build Ohio. Ohio owes 
this bright future to smart public-private investment--led by strong 
bipartisan leadership in Congress.
    We're building BIG in Ohio. Over the next decade, we're looking at 
over $200 Billion dollars in construction projects that will create 
generational careers that provide prevailing wages with health care and 
retirement benefits; as well as tuition-free Apprenticeship training 
for both present and future tradespeople.
    The Bipartisan Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act means that 
thousands of tradespeople in Southern Ohio and Northern Kentucky will 
build the Brent Spence Bridge. This bridge which besides being long 
overdue is a vital transportation corridor for our region and will be 
built by a diverse generation of construction workers--including 
tradeswomen like Saria Gwin-Maye of Ironworkers Local 44.
    The CHIPS and Science Act means that nearly ten-thousand 
construction tradespeople will build Intel's newest semiconductor fabs 
in Columbus, Ohio. This project is creating family-sustaining 
construction jobs across the Central Ohio Region--but also in Ohio's 
Appalachian communities where the residents can see opportunity on the 
horizon again.
    There's excitement in the air at places like IBEW 1105's Electrical 
Training Center, where a whole new generation of tradespeople will 
begin their Apprenticeships on the Intel project including having the 
potential to work their entire career at that facility, upgrading and 
maintaining the fabs.
    Imagine that--lifelong, family-sustaining construction careers 
within commuting distance of Ohio's counties. This type of investment 
has the potential to deliver lasting economic recovery in Ohio's 
struggling towns.
    Statewide the Ohio Building Trades have scaled-up their workforce 
development to meet the demand driven by these investments. Across 
Ohio, our 80 privately funded apprenticeship training centers are 
taking in their largest classes ever. The Building Trades training 
model is the gold-standard in workforce development where they train 
over 80 percent of all construction apprentices in Ohio--with zero tax 
dollars.
    The continued high-road investment in construction projects 
generate the steady demand of apprentices needed for the next 
generation of local tradespeople.
    Underinvestment in our Nation's infrastructure over the past 30 
years has hurt economic growth in the communities where our members 
live and work. Now, with new infrastructure investment in places like 
my hometown of Lima, Ohio, good paying construction jobs are on the 
rise creating an environment where young people do not have to leave 
the Buckeye State to support their families.
    The Ohio Building Trades believe that the rising tide of economic 
opportunity MUST BE WITHIN REACH FOR ALL Ohioans--including women, 
people of color, and veterans.
    Thanks to our partners in industry and at every level of Government 
whose commitment to responsible contracting and sustainable jobs means 
that Ohio's rising economic tide reaches working families in Ohio.
    Our commitment to our partners, is this: We will get the job done.
    We ask you to match our commitment by ensuring that federally 
funded construction jobs go to American tradespeople. These jobs must 
provide benefits to working families in our communities. Despite the 
heavy workforce demand in certain regions of our State, there is still 
depressed areas that have local tradespeople being displaced by 
companies who hire workers without proper documentation to work well 
below the required prevailing wage and without any benefits.
    Properly executed, each new project built through Federal 
investment strengthens Ohio's construction workforce by growing our 
communities through local wages and benefits for working families.
    And you can take the Building Trades' commitment to equal economic 
opportunity to the bank:
    Our journey people and apprentices are protected by Collective 
Bargaining Agreements. CBAs are the great equalizer in wages, health 
care and retirement equity on every jobsite. They guarantee that each 
worker--regardless of race or gender--earns, dollar-for-dollar, the 
same pay as everyone else.
    When Ohio's Building Tradespeople are bringing home a steady 
paycheck from major projects, their entire communities feel the 
economic benefits of those earnings. And thanks to Federal investment, 
these are the working Ohioans who will someday drive past Intel's 
factories or across the Brent Spence Bridge and say to their children 
and grandchildren: ``I built that.''
    Thank you for allowing me to voice the economic stability and hope 
for the future that thousands of Ohio Building Tradespeople and a new 
generation of Ohio Construction Apprentices have thanks to these 
Federal investments in American workers.
    I will end with my final comment: ``Good infrastructure and 
investment policies that comes out of Washington create great outcomes 
in our local communities''.
                                 ______
                                 
                PREPARED STATEMENT OF R. RICHARD GEDDES
      Founding Director, Cornell Program in Infrastructure Policy
                             July 31, 2024
    Chairman Brown, Ranking Member Scott, and Members of the Committee, 
thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today on the 
important topic of the ``Long-term Economic Benefits & Impacts from 
Federal Infrastructure and Public Transportation Investment''. I'm Rick 
Geddes and I serve as the Academic Director and Founder of Cornell 
University's Program in Infrastructure Policy, or CPIP. I am also a 
Professor in Cornell's Jeb E. Brooks School of Public Policy, Professor 
of Economics at Cornell, and a Nonresident Senior Scholar at the 
American Enterprise Institute.
    I am pleased today to discuss infrastructure policy. Civil 
infrastructure is indeed the backbone of any modern society. It 
encompasses the fundamental facilities and systems that support daily 
life, economic activities, and overall well-being. Its importance can 
be understood through several key aspects:
Infrastructure's Impact on the Economy
    Infrastructure supports economic development. Well-developed 
infrastructure such as roads, bridges, ports, rail, and airports 
facilitate trade, reduce transportation costs, and enhance 
connectivity, driving economic growth. It supports industries by 
providing efficient logistics and supply chains. Infrastructure such as 
water supply systems, sewage treatment plants, and waste management 
facilities are crucial for public health. They ensure access to clean 
water, proper sanitation, and the effective disposal of waste, reducing 
the risk of disease outbreaks. Civil infrastructure also impacts the 
quality of life by providing essential energy services including 
electricity, heating, and cooling. Robust infrastructure is essential 
for disaster preparedness and the ability to respond to potential and 
real disasters. Well-designed and maintained infrastructure can 
withstand natural disasters such as earthquakes, floods, and 
hurricanes, minimizing damage and aiding in recovery.
    Moreover, advances in infrastructure, such as smart grids and 
digital connectivity, drive technological innovation and improve 
efficiency across various sectors, including transportation, 
communication, and energy management. Overall, sound civil 
infrastructure is foundational to the functioning and advancement of 
society. It impacts every aspect of daily life, from economic stability 
and health to quality of life and environmental sustainability. 
Investing in and maintaining infrastructure is crucial for building 
resilient, prosperous, and equitable communities.
    The Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (IIJA), also known as 
the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law (BIL), was signed into law by 
President Biden on November 15, 2021. The most recent major 
infrastructure-related act passed by Congress was the Inflation 
Reduction Act, which was signed into law on August 16, 2022. Given that 
almost 2 years have passed since the IRA was signed, it is now 
appropriate to assess the effects of both of these acts.
Inflationary Impact
    Although those acts are important for addressing pervasive 
infrastructure problems, such as deferred maintenance, their impact has 
been more muted than anticipated, for several reasons. First, there has 
been significant inflation in the cost of the materials and labor 
necessary to deliver many projects over the past 2 years. As The 
Economist warned in November of 2023:

        The problem is that inflation has been rampant in the 
        construction sector, making delays that much more pernicious. 
        The single biggest component of the infrastructure package was 
        a 50 percent increase in funding for highways to $350bn over 5 
        years. But highway construction costs soared by more than 50 
        percent from the end of 2020 to the start of 2023, in effect 
        wiping out the extra funding. \1\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \1\ See: https://www.economist.com/united-states/2023/11/22/
spending-on-infrastructure-has-fallen-in-real-terms-in-america 
(accessed July 28, 2024).

    Those cost increases have continued since November 2023. Although 
Covid-related cost increases (such as disruptions in supply chains) 
appear to be moderating, inflation in key construction materials has 
been stubbornly persistent and is likely to continue. As recently 
reported by Statista, the percentage change on previous year of the 
Producer Price Index (PPI) for June 2024 for cement was 6.9 percent. It 
was 6.8 percent for concrete block and brick. It was 6.5 percent for 
ready-mix concrete. For brick and structural clay tile it was 4.8 
percent, and so on. \2\ Those rates are routinely higher than increases 
in the consumer price index, weakening the purchasing power of Federal 
infrastructure dollars. Moreover, these costs do not include the labor 
necessary to utilize these products.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \2\ See: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1046602/inflation-
construction-materials-us/ (accessed July 28, 2024).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Permitting Process
    Second, America's cumbersome permitting process under the National 
Environmental Policy Act of 1970, or NEPA, continues to delay projects. 
That is particularly disconcerting in an inflationary environment. As 
Robert Poole, Jr., (Director of Transportation Policy at the Reason 
Foundation and an MIT-trained engineer) states in a new June 2024 
report,

        The United States has an infrastructure permitting problem. 
        Proposed projects spend years in the Federal environmental 
        review process, delaying their eventual construction and the 
        resulting benefits to their users. Project costs grow, 
        sometimes dramatically, due to inflation during the years-long 
        review process but also due to mitigation measures that are 
        imposed on the project as a condition for going forward. And 
        some projects end up not being built. Bipartisan infrastructure 
        experts view the legal infrastructure that has evolved for 
        implementing the requirements embodied in the 1970 National 
        Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) as a significant factor. \3\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \3\ Robert W. Poole, Jr. ``Reforming Environmental Litigation'', 
Reason Foundation, June 2024, p. 1.

    NEPA-induced project delays, as well as compliance costs, can be 
significant. As Michael Bennon, Daniel De La Hormaza and I reported in 
a 2023 article published in the Journal of Regulatory Economics, a 
typical Environmental Impact Statement (or EIS) under NEPA now takes 
about 4\1/2\ years and is over 600 pages long. Some EISs take over a 
decade to complete. \4\ In an economic sector where ``time really is 
money,'' such long timelines often significantly increase project cost.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \4\ See Michael Bennon, Daniel De La Hormaza, and R. Richard 
Geddes, 2023. ``A Hazard Analysis of Federal Permitting Under the 
National Environmental Policy Act of 1970'', Journal of Regulatory 
Economics, pp. 1-30.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Although there are several avenues for NEPA reform, Australia 
offers an appealing approach. In Australia, the primary environmental 
legislation is the Environmental Protection and Biodiversity 
Conservation (EPBC) Act of 1999. Any action or project that is likely 
to have a significant impact on the national environment requires 
authorization under that act. A 2012 amendment to the EPBC includes an 
assessment of environmental impacts, as well as proposed offsets/
mitigations. The Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment, 
and Water (DCCEEW) reviews nationally significant projects. Project 
developers must submit a preliminary application to DCCEEW, with strict 
timelines regarding how quickly the agency must respond. The agency 
must typically respond within 20 days to decide if the project needs an 
assessment, and which of five alternative assessments is most 
appropriate. \5\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \5\ See Robert W. Poole, Jr. ``Reforming Environmental 
Litigation'', Reason Foundation, June 2024, p. 20.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
BABA Impacts
    Third, provisions of the Build America, Buy America Act (BABA), 
although well-intentioned, appear to be inhibiting project delivery. 
BABA was enacted on November 15, 2021, as part of the BIL. The act 
requires Federal agencies to prioritize the use of American-made goods 
and services in infrastructure projects. That includes requiring that 
all iron, steel, manufactured products, and construction materials used 
in federally funded projects be produced in the United States. The act 
applies to all Federal financial assistance for infrastructure projects 
obligated after May 14, 2022.
    On June 11, 2024, POLITICOPRO reported that, with the tighter BABA 
requirements, even minor products must be produced by U.S. companies in 
order to qualify for the available Federal infrastructure incentives. 
However, those items often are not available or are far more expensive 
than the imported versions, adding to cost and increasing delays. \6\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \6\ See James Bikales, ``Biden's Infrastructure Push Crashes Into 
His Buy America Agenda'', PoliticoPro, June 11, 2024.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Compliance with BABA has thus become confusing for many contractors 
and project developers. The BABA waiver process, in which the newly 
created Made in American Office (or MIAO, which is part of the Office 
of Management and Budget) plays a central role, is rife with 
inconsistencies. What qualifies as a waiver under BABA is unclear to 
many market participants, which greatly slows project delivery. \7\ 
This has become a major source of concern and delay in project 
delivery.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \7\ See, e.g., Tim Duit, ``Examining the U.S. Department of 
Transportation's Regulatory and Administrative Agenda'', Testimony 
Presented to the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, 
Subcommittee on Highways and Transit, July 24, 2024.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    It appears that, in the laws' zeal to assist U.S. domestic 
manufacturing, it has created conflicting policy objectives and 
significant confusion among providers. The goal of supporting U.S. 
domestic manufacturing is conflicting with accelerating delivery of 
infrastructure while ensuring wise use of taxpayer dollars. Ensuring 
crystal-clear guidance from MIAO regarding BABA waivers would be an 
important first step in facilitating efficient project delivery.
Public-Private Partnerships Can Support Higher Infrastructure Needs
    The BIL authorizes $1.2 trillion in spending for roads, bridges, 
rail, water, the power grid, and high-speed internet. In addition, 
aspects of the BIL encourage greater private-sector participation in 
U.S. infrastructure delivery. Section 80403, for example, increases the 
national limit on Private Activity Bonds (or PABs) for qualified 
highway or surface freight transportation facilities from $15 billion 
to $30 billion.
    More can be done, however, to encourage greater private involvement 
in U.S. infrastructure delivery, which would help address several 
stubborn problems we face today. Indeed, the present moment presents an 
opportunity for the private sector to take on a larger role in 
providing infrastructure financing beyond what can be provided by the 
Federal Government.
    There are many cases that support the success of public-private 
partnerships in building, operating, and maintaining various types of 
infrastructure. For example, rebuilding the Francis Scott Key Bridge in 
Baltimore offers the chance to bring American infrastructure delivery 
up to rest-of-world standards through better cooperation between the 
public and private sectors. The core of such cooperation is a long-term 
contract between the public and private sectors known broadly as a 
``public-private partnership,'' or PPP.
    The central aspect of a PPP is that it bundles or ``wraps'' the 
design and construction of a piece of infrastructure together with its 
operation and maintenance over the long term, such as 25 or 30 years. 
Such a PPP might also include private-sector financing to cover the new 
bridge's substantial design and construction costs. Because the Key 
Bridge featured all-electronic tolling, a user-fee funding source 
already exists to help pay for the new bridge (especially for 
maintenance) over time.
    Although the Federal Government has committed some funding to 
reconstruct the Key Bridge, it will likely require more than this 
initial commitment. A PPP for the Key Bridge that combines design and 
construction with future operation and maintenance, for example, 
usually includes provisions to ensure that the infrastructure is 
properly maintained. This reduces the likelihood of deferred 
maintenance, one of the main problems plaguing U.S. infrastructure 
today. Indeed, maintenance has been deferred on so many roads and 
bridges that it is difficult to bring them all up to a state of good 
repair. \8\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \8\ See, e.g., the American Society of Civil Engineers quadrennial 
infrastructure ``Report Card'' at https://infrastructurereportcard.org/ 
(accessed July 28, 2024).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Rather than simply ``bouncing back'' from this bridge disaster, 
which disrupted supply chains across many industries, a long-term PPP 
provides the opportunity to ``bounce forward.'' A quiet but vast 
technological revolution has occurred in infrastructure since 1977, the 
year the Key Bridge went into service. Improvements in materials (such 
as concrete and asphalt), sensors, designs, and more are readily 
available. Such improvements can be incorporated into the new bridge's 
design and construction, as well as its operation and maintenance by 
``future proofing'' contracts with the private sector.
    Today many roads and bridges that were built in the 1960s and 1970s 
could benefit from technology and innovations that did not exist in 
those decades. Because PPP contracts include operation and maintenance 
over the long term, there is a risk of locking in outdated technologies 
if there is not a forward-looking perspective included in the process. 
Future proofing refers to the risk of not adopting available innovative 
technology and design standards well into the future. A future-proofed 
contract places that risk on the private partner, thus ensuring that 
private capital, incentives, and expertise are deployed to make U.S. 
infrastructure as resilient as possible for decades to come.
    The other pitfall with any large construction project is time 
delays. Many U.S. infrastructure projects notoriously run over time and 
over budget. When completed, Phase 1 of New York's Second Avenue 
Subway, for example, cost about $2.5 billion per mile. That is 8 to 12 
times more expensive than similar subway projects in Sweden, Italy, 
Paris, Berlin, and Istanbul.
    A properly structured PPP contract puts the risk of time and cost 
overruns on the private partner rather than the taxpayer. The private 
partner can be incentivized to deliver the project on time via 
financial penalties for late delivery and rewards for delivery ahead of 
schedule. Evidence suggests that projects led by private entities often 
come in either on time or ahead of schedule. \9\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \9\ See, e.g., Stefan Verweij, Ingmar van Meerkerk, and Carter B. 
Casady, ``Assessing the Performance Advantage of Public-Private 
Partnerships: A Comparative Perspective'', London: Edward Elgar, 2022).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Finally, PPPs allow projects to cut through much of the bureaucracy 
that often slows U.S. projects. America has typically used a design-
bid-build (DBB) approach, where a Government entity first bids out the 
bridge's design and then bids out the chosen design. Combining and 
integrating the design and construction into a single project results 
in quicker delivery and more synergies between design and construction 
firms. New York's widely acclaimed new Tappan Zee Bridge was built 
using such a contract.
    The Key Bridge disaster reinforced the importance of risk 
assessment, and assessing all situations that could happen in the 
supply-chain process. Evaluating all processes and planning for every 
``what if'' situation will help both the public and private sectors to 
handle such a tragedy.
    Congress can take steps in the future to facilitate greater use of 
PPPs in the United States. One is to encourage States and regions to 
utilize ``PPP units.'' PPP units are quasi-Governmental entities that 
assist the public sector with pre-project screening, project 
prioritization, education, and expert advice. PPP units have been 
established in Australia, Canada, China, Israel, Japan, Egypt, the 
United Kingdom, and India, among many other countries. They strive to 
ensure that infrastructure projects attract private participation while 
promoting the public interest. Despite their global popularity, PPP 
units remain relatively underused in the United States. PPP units have 
effectively supported private participation in infrastructure around 
the world. Because the U.S. lags other developed countries in PPP use, 
the benefits of such units would likely be large if implemented here. 
\10\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \10\ See R. Richard Geddes and Carter B. Casady, ``Private 
Participation in U.S. Infrastructure: The Role of PPP Units'', 
Washington, DC: American Enterprise Institute, October 26, 2016.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Interestingly, one side effect of the BIL is that more States and 
local governments are working together to coordinate their 
infrastructure efforts. This may lay the groundwork for future 
cooperation under the auspices of regional PPP units. As The Economist 
states:

        Some also think that the infrastructure law may pay other 
        dividends. To manage all the grant applications and the 
        funding, the Federal Government asked States to establish 
        infrastructure coordinators, leading to more joined-up planning 
        for water, roads, energy and more. ``It goes against a hundred 
        years of how States have worked,'' says Mr. Ferrer. ``It's been 
        hard and awkward for them. But it is a better way to do 
        things.'' \11\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \11\ See: https://www.economist.com/united-states/2023/11/22/
spending-on-infrastructure-has-fallen-in-real-terms-in-america 
(accessed July 28, 2024).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Permitting Processes Can Facilitate Projects
    As noted above, with the significant progress of Federal 
infrastructure funding to support the need for new and updated 
infrastructure, one of the stumbling blocks is the permitting process. 
Large projects often cross many jurisdictions, including Federal, 
State, and local jurisdictions. The permitting process can take years 
to coordinate and can add to the cost and timetable of a project.
    Uncertainty around permit schedules can be costly and creates 
significant variability for organizations that want to take advantage 
of the new infrastructure funding. With much funding only available 
until 2026, inefficiency and permitting delays can derail a project. 
Complex processes, poor data governance, and resource constraints are 
some of the primary factors underlying today's permitting challenges.
    A White House study in 2020 found that the NEPA permitting process, 
which most major infrastructure projects must go through to receive a 
Federal permit, takes between 3.5 and 6 years to complete, on average. 
\12\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \12\ ``Environmental Impact Statement Timelines'', Executive 
Office of the President Council on environmental Quality, June 12, 
2020.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Permitting agencies that can assume a leadership role for managing 
the process and for communicating with all entities can play a 
significant role in facilitating progress and getting projects in place 
more quickly. It is imperative that Governments at all levels support 
permitting reforms to speed critically needed infrastructure 
improvements. A central permitting office can support the introduction 
of integrated permitting capabilities at the State and local levels. A 
KPMG study offers insight into the cycle time, project application 
status, and suggests streamlining the process by which infrastructure 
funding is directed to projects and communities that need it.
    Although many States have resources assigned to permitting-related 
issues, only some have dedicated offices sufficiently resourced and 
empowered to address the known issues. Today's permitting challenges 
are exacerbated by the upcoming accelerated pace of infrastructure 
investment. There is an urgency to establish clear guidance, enabling 
clear communication and providing access to consistent information. 
\13\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \13\ Dr. Christian Robert and Suzie Heap, ``Permitting: 
Streamlining Delivery of Today's Infrastructure Opportunity'', KPMG, 
March 2023.

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

Cyberthreats
    Rising geopolitical tensions are injecting national security 
concerns into what were previously viewed as core civilian activities. 
Growing cyberthreats to America's electrical grid, as stressed by FBI 
Director Christopher Wray in recent testimony, serves as a case in 
point. Although geopolitical events are inherently unpredictable, this 
is likely to drive further investment in energy and advanced and 
defense-related manufacturing, again an example of how the private 
entities can support Government.
Technology and Innovation Factors
    The rapid pace of technological change in infrastructure is 
unprecedented. New types of concrete, energy storage and generating 
sources, including hydrogen and a new generation of nuclear reactors, 
are appearing regularly, often due to the investments that companies 
are making in technology to drive greater and faster innovation. 
Although welcome, the ultimate impact of this technological wave on the 
infrastructure landscape is quite challenging to predict.
Increasing Private Investment in Infrastructure
    Greater use of PPPs offers investors new opportunities to 
participate in U.S. infrastructure as an asset class. Importantly, many 
investors in infrastructure via PPPs and other avenues are large 
institutions. Those institutional investors include public and private 
pension funds, insurance companies, sovereign wealth funds, and 
university endowments, among others. This demonstrates how private 
investment can be a ``triple win'' for public infrastructure owners, 
for the public using that improved and maintained infrastructure, and 
for institutional investors who place their retirement savings in 
infrastructure assets and receive appealing returns.
    The global investment community has recognized that both civil and 
social infrastructure is an important asset class and a growing 
opportunity. Despite institutions' under-allocation to infrastructure, 
2023 was the most challenging year for private infrastructure 
fundraising since 2015, according to the second annual Institutional 
Infrastructure Allocations Monitor released on June 18, 2024, by Hodes 
Weill & Associates and Cornell University's Program in Infrastructure 
Policy. However, considering growing target allocations to 
infrastructure and positive investor sentiment, the pace of annual 
investments is expected to accelerate over the medium-term. \14\ 
Infrastructure portfolios continue to demonstrate resilient revenues 
and offer investors strong risk-adjusted returns, despite general 
market volatility.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \14\ https://www.hodesweill.com/single-post/2024-institutional-
infrastructure-allocations-monitor, June 20, 2024.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The primary conclusion of the 2024 Infrastructure Allocations 
Monitor is that institutions are poised to allocate significant capital 
to infrastructure investments as global transaction activity rebounds. 
The weight of this capital can be expected to have broad implications 
for the industry with respect to fundraising, lending activity, and 
asset valuations. Although some third-party research suggests 
infrastructure markets may be overvalued, the combination of abundant 
capital and liquidity, global Government support, and anticipated rate 
cuts, along with the benefit of the asset class' ``inflation 
participation,'' can be expected to sustain current valuation and 
financing metrics, including discount rates. This perspective does not 
downplay the risks of prolonged high interest rates or slow economic 
growth, but rather highlights a crucial consideration for industry 
participants.
Conclusion
    These legislative acts are to be applauded given the needs of our 
country to strengthen and update our infrastructure. The funding 
commitments through the BIL, the CHIPS and Science Act, and the 
Inflation Reduction Act, are expected to achieve those goals and 
contribute to future proofing the resilience of our various 
infrastructure networks. I believe that with some changes in permitting 
policies, the incorporation of new technologies and innovative 
products, and the integration of public-private partnerships, the 
various levels of Government can leverage this funding to benefit 
future generations for decades to come.
        RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR SCOTT
                    FROM CHRISTOPHER A. COES

Q.1. Mr. Coes, we did not have the chance to exchange questions 
during the hearing, nor did I have the chance to address my 
concerns with the Department of Transportation's (DOT's) 
administration and implementation of the discretionary grant 
programs included in the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act 
(IIJA). I am not alone in these concerns. In fact, the 
Government Accountability Office (GAO) conducted multiple 
reports, finding DOT's and the Federal Transit Administration's 
(FTA'S) administration of discretionary grant programs to be 
inconsistent and unreliable. \1\ These shortcomings stem from 
DOT's failure to consistently provide documentation on its 
evaluation processes and for failing to fully align with 
Federal regulations and DOT guidance. \2\ Please detail the 
steps you are taking to fix the problems cited by GAO.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \1\ U.S. Gov't Accountability Office, GAO-23-106378, 
``Discretionary Transportation Grants: DOT Should Improve Transparency 
in the Infrastructure for Rebuilding America Program'' (2024).
     \2\ U.S. Gov't Accountability Office, GAO-24-106280, 
``Discretionary Grants: DOT Should Improve Clarity and Transparency of 
Program Management'' (2024).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
A.1. Response not received in time for publication.

Q.2. In 2020, GAO recommended the FTA Administrator should take 
steps to provide information to Congress and project recipients 
to better clarify how FTA applies the methods and factors it 
considers when performing its review of recipient's, or 
sponsor's, projects. Four years later, neither the DOT nor FTA 
anticipate acting on this suggestion. \3\ Why are you ignoring 
this recommendation?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \3\ U.S. Gov't Accountability Office, GAO-20-512, ``Capital 
Investments Grants Program: FTA Should Improve the Effectiveness and 
Transparency of Its Reviews'' (2020).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
A.2. Response not received in time for publication.

Q.3. In the same report, GAO recommended that FTA take 
additional steps to ensure its staff communicates the reasons 
why a project is not advancing to sponsors in a timely manner 
and in writing upon request. Again, neither DOT nor FTA concur 
with this recommendation, instead claiming they are already 
performing these kinds of measures. Your standards do not seem 
to be working if GAO remains concerned with the lack of 
transparency within your agency.
    Why are DOT and FTA unable to abide by this commonsense 
recommendation?
    You claim to be practicing these suggestions, why have you 
not taken simple steps to update them per GAO's recommendation?

A.3. Response not received in time for publication.

Q.4. The IIJA carved out $7.5 billion from Fiscal Year 2022 to 
2026 to build 500,000 public charging stations for electric 
vehicles across the country. The National Electric Vehicle 
Infrastructure (NEVI) program and the Charging and Fueling 
Infrastructure (CFI) program were authorized by Congress 3 
years ago, yet there are only 8 active charging stations 
completed in six U.S. States. \4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \4\ Joe Lancaster, ``$7.5 Billion in Government Cash Only Built 8 
E.V. Charges in 2.5 years'', Reason (August 7, 2024), (reason.com).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Why have only 8 of the 500,000 required charging stations 
been completed?
    What is the reason for the delay?
    How many NEVI/CFI funded charging stations can we expect to 
be completed in the next 6 months? One year? Two years?
    Please provide a detailed breakdown of the total costs for 
each completed charging station using NEVI/CFI grants.
    Do you expect the remaining charging stations to entail the 
same costs?

A.4. Response not received in time for publication.
                                ------                                


       RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR WARNOCK
                    FROM CHRISTOPHER A. COES

Q.1. As you discuss in your testimony, investments in our 
Nation's infrastructure can be measured by how they transform 
and uplift communities. The historic investment in our Nation's 
infrastructure through the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law will 
undoubtably help uplift communities by reconnecting those 
divided by legacy infrastructure, creating new mobility options 
through investments in transit and passenger rail, and much 
more. But the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law also has the 
potential to uplift communities by creating new wealth and 
opportunity by supporting the next generation of small and 
minority contractors. Having a more diverse pool of contractors 
in the bidding process for infrastructure projects can promote 
innovation, bring down project costs, and ensure that Federal 
funding is distributed more equitably throughout communities.
    Why is it important for small and minority contractors to 
be a part of the rebuilding of the Nation's infrastructure?

A.1. Response not received in time for publication.

Q.2. What more can Congress do to support small and minority 
contractors' access to this historic infrastructure funding?

A.2. Response not received in time for publication.

Q.3. Without reliable access to transportation, many 
communities, especially low-income and rural areas with limited 
mobility options, can face limited opportunities for economic 
growth. \1\ The Department of Transportation's Areas of 
Persistent Poverty Program helps tackle this problem by 
supporting both urban and rural recipients in Areas of 
Persistent Poverty or Historically Disadvantaged Communities 
for activities including the planning, engineering, or 
development of technical or financing plans for improved 
transit services, new transit routes, and engineering for 
transit facilities and improvements to existing facilities. \2\ 
Georgia has already received $880,000 under this program to 
support service in Augusta and Savannah and to develop a 
regional transit plan in rural South Georgia. \3\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \1\ Paul P. Skoutelas, ``Neglecting Aging Public Transportation 
Hurts Our Economy'', Politico (Accessed August 5, 2024, https://
www.politico.com/sponsor-content/2018/06/when-public-transit#.
     \2\ ``Areas of Persistent Poverty Program'', United States 
Department of Transportation (Accessed August 5, 2024), https://
www.transit.dot.gov/grant-programs/areas-persistent-poverty-program.
     \3\ ``Areas of Persistent Poverty Program FY 2021 Selected 
Projects'', United States Department of Transportation (September 7, 
2023), https://www.transit.dot.gov/funding/grants/grant-programs/areas-
persistent-poverty-program-fy2021-selected-projects; ``Fiscal Year 2023 
Areas of Persistent Poverty (AoPP) Project Selections'', United States 
Department of Transportation (July 20, 2023), https://
www.transit.dot.gov/funding/grants/grant-programs/fiscal-year-2023-
areas-persistent-poverty-aopp-project-selections.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    How do investments in planning, engineering, or the 
development of technical or financing plans for projects 
eligible under Chapter 53 of Title 49 help support new or 
existing transit service in rural communities?

A.3. Response not received in time for publication.

Q.4. The Metropolitan Atlanta Transit Authority (MARTA) has 
submitted an application for Multimodal Project Discretionary 
Grant (MPDG) funding to support its Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) 
project along GA400. According to MARTA, this project 
incorporates transit-oriented-development (TOD) planning at 
each stop along this busy workforce corridor. In a city like 
Atlanta that is simultaneously dense and sprawling, TOD 
presents a unique opportunity to reduce housing and 
transportation costs for low-income communities, reduce 
emissions, spark economic development, and help create that 
all-important sense of community.
    As the Department of Transportation reviews applications 
for MPDG funding, will you commit to giving full and fair 
consideration to MARTA's GA400 BRT project, including its TOD 
components?

A.4. Response not received in time for publication.
                                ------                                


               RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF
           SENATOR FETTERMAN FROM CHRISTOPHER A. COES

Q.1. The President's Budget included language regarding 
flexibility for transit agencies to use Federal dollars for 
operating costs. Many agencies across Pennsylvania are facing a 
``fiscal cliff'' or will hit one in the next few years, which 
will lead to service reductions that will make travel more 
difficult for Pennsylvanians. How could Federal operating 
funding prevent near-term cuts to service and improve long-term 
outcomes for transit employees, riders, and the broader 
communities these agencies serve?
    What are the economic impacts of widespread service cuts to 
transit service? How will those cuts affect rural communities 
and those served by smaller agencies?

A.1. Response not received in time for publication.

Q.2. What is the average wait time for Federal Transit 
Administration (FTA) Emergency Relief dollars to be disbursed 
after a disaster? What has been the longest period between 
disaster and delivery of FTA ER funding?
    How does this compare to the delivery timeline for FHWA ER 
funding?

A.2. Response not received in time for publication.

Q.3. PennDOT is studying a number of possible alternatives to 
improve safety on the Roosevelt Boulevard corridor, including a 
Roosevelt Boulevard Subway Line (an extension of SEPTA's Broad 
Street Line). If a transit proposal for the Boulevard is 
submitted for funding through the Capital Investments Grants 
program, would FTA incorporate transit-oriented development or 
land use potential into considerations used to evaluate 
potential ridership?

A.3. Response not received in time for publication.

Q.4. What guidance has DOT provided for participants in the 
Corridor ID program regarding Federal opportunities for 
transit-oriented development or other investments in the 
neighborhoods around potential station sites?

A.4. Response not received in time for publication.

Q.5. I was very glad to see the Department recognize the 
importance of the Schuylkill River Passenger Rail Authority 
(SRPRA) project for the Reading-Philadelphia-New York Corridor 
by selecting it for the Corridor Identification and Development 
Program at the Federal Railroad Administration. Two years ago, 
SRPRA was formed by Berks, Chester, and Montgomery counties to 
help restore vital rail service for Pennsylvanians who were 
left behind commuter rail line closures in the 1980s. Please 
provide an update on the status of this project, including 
anticipated timelines for preparation and completion of the 
Service Development Plan.

A.5. Response not received in time for publication.
                                ------                                


       RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR WARNOCK
                      FROM MICHAEL KNISLEY

Q.1. As you discuss in your testimony, investments in our 
Nation's infrastructure can be measured by how they transform 
and uplift communities. \1\ The historic investment in our 
Nation's infrastructure through the Bipartisan Infrastructure 
Law will undoubtably help uplift communities by reconnecting 
those divided by legacy infrastructure, creating new mobility 
options through investments in transit and passenger rail, and 
much more. But the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law also has the 
potential to uplift communities by creating new wealth and 
opportunity by supporting the next generation of small and 
minority contractors. Having a more diverse pool of contractors 
in the bidding process for infrastructure projects can promote 
innovation, bring down project costs, and ensure that Federal 
funding is distributed more equitably throughout communities. 
\2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \1\ Statement of Mr. Michael Knisley, Executive Secretary-
Treasurer, Ohio State Building and Construction Trades Council, https:/
/www.banking.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/kinsley-testimony-7-31-24.pdf at 
p. 1 (``Imagine that--lifelong, family-sustaining construction careers 
within commuting distance of Ohio's counties. This type of investment 
has the potential to deliver lasting economic recovery in Ohio's 
struggling towns.'')
     \2\ ``Opportunities To Increase Inclusion of Small Businesses in 
Government Contracting'', United States Small Business Administration 
(Accessed August 6, 2024), https://files.hudexchange.info/resources/
documents/Small-Contractors-Initiative-Increasing-Inclusion-of-Small-
Businesses.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Why is it important for small and minority contractors to 
be a part of the rebuilding of the Nation's infrastructure?

A.1. It is critical for small as well as minority contractors 
to participate in the rebuilding of the Nations infrastructure 
as many times these contractors are at a distinct disadvantage 
due to their relatively smaller size to execute the larger 
infrastructure projects. The disadvantages also include the 
requirements of performance, surety and fringe benefit bonds 
that are typical on any construction project but can be 
difficult to obtain due to the sheer size of scope for the 
project itself.
    Contractors that make up this demographic group are the 
backbone of the construction industry and unfortunately due to 
the scale of most Federal projects as well as the historic 
nature of mammoth general contractors that dominate this space 
it makes it almost impossible for smaller and/or minority 
contractors to work in this environment.

Q.2. What more can Congress do to support small and minority 
contractors' access to this historic infrastructure funding?

A.2. A number of things could be done to give the smaller/
minority contractor an opportunity to participate in the larger 
infrastructure projects as follows:
    A. Split up the project itself into smaller scope that 
would allow the contractor to participate at the current 
business level they are currently operating at.
    B. Codify in the project bid scope that the General 
Contractor will utilize smaller/minority contractors for the 
smaller codified scope of work.
    C. Have the Federal Government create or coordinate a 
national pool of financial institutions that would specialize 
in offering business loans at a slightly smaller discount rate 
to smaller and/or minority contractors for specific line items 
like bonding, insurance and other construction specific related 
items that typically hold back these contractors.
    D. Encourage the surety/bonding institutions to offer a 
slightly smaller discount on the respective bonds required. 
There might be some value in for the Federal Government to 
absorb some of the risk associated with these programs.
                                ------                                


        RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR SCOTT
                     FROM R. RICHARD GEDDES

Q.1. Dr. Geddes, thank you for your testimony before the Senate 
Banking Committee. As promised, I am following up on Public-
Private Partnerships (P3s). P3s are crucial for infrastructure 
development as they have been proven to reduce Government 
spending, extend long-term maintenance, and put a portion of 
the risk assessment on the private sector.
    Please explain in detail the benefits P3s can have on 
infrastructure projects.

A.1. As explained in my written testimony, P3s can generate 
numerous benefits for infrastructure projects. Those benefits 
can be grouped into several categories.
    Better life-cycle asset maintenance. The core element of a 
P3 is the bundling together of key project elements, 
particularly design and construction (design-build) combined 
with operation and maintenance (O&M) over the project's 
operational life. This includes design-build-operate (DBO) 
contracts, design-build-operate-maintain (DBOM) contracts, and 
design-build-finance-operate-maintain (DBFOM) contracts, among 
others. The bundling aspect of P3 ensures that public-sector 
asset owners are contractually bound to maintain the asset in a 
state of good repair during its projected life cycle. This 
aspect of P3 will help the United States address one of its 
most pressing infrastructure policy problems, which is a 
massive backlog of deferred maintenance. Indeed, bundled P3s 
are one of the only reliable policy solutions to the endemic 
problem of deferred maintenance. Although P3 projects may have 
larger up-front costs, the bundling aspect of P3 often results 
in lower life-cycle costs for the project because it avoids the 
large, costly renovations that generally result from deferred 
maintenance.
    Risk transfer to private investors. In general, P3s do not 
reduce the overall amount of risk in delivering an 
infrastructure project. When done properly, however, P3s can 
have important riskmanagement benefits because they transfer 
some risks to private partners who are often better positioned 
to manage them. Although private partners will ``charge'' 
public asset owners for the service of bearing project risk, 
the overall social cost of risk bearing will be lower if it is 
better managed by the private partner. This results in long-
term operational efficiency.
    Faster project delivery and improved service quality. 
Because P3s can place the risk of both poor project quality and 
slow delivery on the private partner, they often include 
incentives to deliver projects both on time and of high 
quality. There is strong empirical evidence for this 
conclusion. In some cases, there are bonus incentives for 
delivering the project ahead of schedule. As a summary of a 
recent book on P3 (Verweij, S., van Meerkerk, I., and Casady, 
C. (Eds.). (2022). `Assessing the Performance Advantage of 
Public-Private Partnerships''. Cheltenham, U.K.: Edward Elgar 
Publishing. Retrieved Aug 30, 2024, https://
www.elgaronline.com/edcollbook/book/9781800889200/
9781800889200.xm) states, ``This comprehensive assessment 
produces several conclusions, but ultimately determines that 
evidence for a cost performance advantage remains mixed, while 
PPPs are proven to clearly outperform traditional alternatives 
in terms of time and service quality.''
    Bringing innovation to infrastructure projects. Civil 
infrastructure construction and maintenance is notable for its 
lack of productivity improvement in recent decades relative to 
many other major economic sectors. One reason for this is slow 
adoption of new technologies. P3s can help address this 
problem. As explained in my written testimony, a P3 contract 
that is ``future proofed'' is one that places the risk of not 
adopting the latest technologies on the private partner, rather 
than on the public asset owner. This contractual provision puts 
both parties ``on the lookout'' for the latest technological 
advances that may improve the quality of project delivery.
    Impact on the economy and on quality of life. 
Infrastructure supports economic development. Robust 
infrastructure is essential for disaster preparedness and the 
ability to respond to potential and real disasters. Well-
designed and maintained infrastructure can withstand natural 
disasters, such as earthquakes, floods and hurricanes, 
minimizing damage and aiding in recovery.

Q.2. Given your extensive work in this area, what solutions can 
Congress take to support the use of P3s?

A.2. There are several important steps that Congress can take 
to support the use of P3s in the United States. I describe a 
few below.
    Eliminate the cap on private activity bonds (PABs). PABs 
are a way of leveling the ``cost-of-capital playing field'' 
between tax-exempt municipal bonds and the privately issued 
debt often used to finance infrastructure projects. They are a 
type of low-cost financing that allows the issuance of tax-free 
municipal bonds by private entities such as the special-purpose 
vehicles that deliver major infrastructure projects. They are 
used for a variety of transportation projects, including 
highways, passenger rail, surface freight transfer facilities, 
high-speed commuter and passenger rail lines, urban transit, 
new express/managed lanes, and bridge replacements.
    PABs were originally viewed as experimental. The 
Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (IIJA) of 2021 increased 
the cap on PABs for qualified highway and surface freight 
transfer facility projects from $15 billion to $30 billion. 
Recognizing that there is no cap on the total amount of tax-
exempt municipal bond issuance, and that no other country has 
this type of tax structure that favors publicly issued debt, it 
is now appropriate for Congress to not only raise, but to 
eliminate the cap on the issuance of PABs. This would greatly 
facilitate the market for P3s in the United States, send a 
signal that private investment is welcome, and would contribute 
to economic development and job creation.
    Improve public-sector P3 contracting capacity. Because P3s 
are still somewhat new in the United State compared to many 
other developed countries, public-sector asset owners are often 
not experienced with this project-delivery method. P3s can be 
vastly different from the traditional delivery that many 
public-sector officials are used to. Public-sector officials 
often need to become more sophisticated to do P3s properly. 
They can do this by paying for excellent legal and financial 
advice as they move forward with a P3, which is often costly. 
They can also do this by creating in-house P3 expertise through 
the establishment of a ``P3 unit,'' like the State of 
Virginia's Office of Public-Private Partnerships. A Public-
Private Partnership (PPP) unit is an organization that is 
responsible for the promotion, facilitation, and assessment of 
PPPs in a given area. PPP units can be Government agencies or 
semi-independent organizations that are supported by the 
Government, either fully or partially. Congress can facilitate 
use of P3s in the United States through the encouragement of 
both paying for high-quality outside expertise and the creation 
of P3 units.
    For more information on PPP Units, see, Private 
Participation in U.S. Infrastructure: The Role of PPP Units, by 
R. Richard Geddes and Carter B. Casady (American Enterprise 
Institute) October 26, 2016, https://www.aei.org/.
    Facilitate the creation of more facility-specific revenue 
sources. Importantly, P3s can be done on infrastructure 
facilities that do not have a dedicated user-fee revenue 
source. The main way of doing so is via an ``availability 
payment'' approach where the private partner is paid either on 
the basis of performance or on the basis of measured facility 
use. P3s work better, however, in cases where there is a user-
fee sources of revenue which goes directly to the private 
partner. \1\ Therefore, one of the main ways that Congress 
could facilitate greater use of P3 in the United States is to 
help create facility-specific dedicated revenue sources.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \1\ For an analysis of the differences between availability 
payment P3s versus real-toll P3s, see Robert Poole, Availability 
Payment or Revenue-Risk P3 Concessions? Pros and Cons for Highway 
Infrastructure, Reason Foundation Policy Study No. 458 (November 2017), 
available at: https://reason.org/wp-content/uploads/files/
infrastructure-availability-payment-revenue-risk-concessions.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    One major example of potential user-fee revenue is tolling 
the existing Interstate highway system instead of relying on 
fossil-fuel taxes. Revenue from fossil fuel taxes is 
unsustainable and declining, primarily due to the increasing 
number of electric vehicles and more fuel-efficient cars on the 
road, which means people are buying less gas, thus generating 
less tax revenue from gas purchases. Moreover, taxes on 
gasoline and diesel fuel are not indexed to inflation. An 
obvious solution is per-mile tolling of Interstate highway use, 
since toll revenue is independent of the fuel used to power the 
vehicle.
    Congress moved in this direction in the TEA-21 Act of 1998, 
which created a pilot program under which a State may collect 
tolls on one Interstate highway for the purpose of 
reconstructing or rehabilitating a highway that could not 
otherwise be adequately maintained or functionally improved 
without the collection of tolls. However, only three States 
were allowed to be included in the pilot program. Although that 
was 26 years ago, both tolling technology and the understanding 
of tolling's effectiveness have improved greatly. By clearing 
the way for expanded use of tolling on existing interstate 
highways, Congress could greatly increase P3 use in the United 
States. This should be included in any future highway 
reauthorization bill.

Q.3. Are you aware of any shortcomings related to P3s?
    If yes, please explain whether these shortcomings can be 
addressed through legislation.

A.3. Rather than ``shortcomings'' I would say that P3s have 
certain costs. One important cost of the P3 method is the so-
called ``transaction costs.'' These are the costs associated 
with procuring an infrastructure facility via P3 versus a more 
traditional method, such as design-bid-build combined with tax-
exempt municipal bond financing. P3s are usually more complex 
and thus more costly to procure. There is also the risk that 
public-sector owners are not familiar with P3s and thus agree 
to unfavorable terms. As noted previously, those issues can be 
addressed through the retention of top-notch expertise, as well 
as by the creation of PPP Units. Congress can help address this 
by supporting both avenues for improved public-sector capacity.
    Second, due to their often-higher transaction and 
contracting costs, P3s may not be appropriate for smaller 
projects. That is, it does not make sense to incur the higher 
transaction costs associated with P3s if the total size of the 
project is small. Congress can however help address this 
problem by encouraging public-sector asset owners to combine or 
``bundle'' many smaller projects into one large P3. This will 
not only spread out the (fixed) P3 transaction costs over a 
larger project but is also likely to attract more U.S. and 
international bidders, which makes procurement more 
competitive.
    An example of this type of bundling is the Pennsylvania 
Rapid Bridge Replacement Program. That Project is a P3 that 
replaced 558 structurally deficient bridges in Pennsylvania. 
The project is the largest roadway project in the State's 
history and the first of its kind in the United States to 
bundle the replacement of hundreds of bridges in a single P3 
agreement. Congress can explore tools to encourage States to 
undertake more similar bundling projects.

Q.4. P3s are used by the Federal Government to finance 
infrastructure projects as well as to manage real property. \2\ 
Are you aware of other positive uses of P3s across other 
Government sectors? If so, are there lessons we can learn and 
apply from other types of P3s as well?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \2\ Jefreda Brown; Melody Kazel, ``Public-Private Partnerships 
(PPPs) Definition, How They Work, and Examples, Investopedia'', (August 
7 2024), https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/public-private-
partnerships.asp.

A.4. To provide a broad answer, P3s have been used in such 
diverse activities as funding and building transportation 
infrastructure like toll roads, operating public facilities 
like airports through private concessions, developing new 
technologies through research collaborations with private 
companies, and utilizing private companies to manage certain 
aspects of health care delivery, particularly in underserved 
areas. More specific examples include leasing out highway 
operations to private companies in exchange for toll revenue, 
as was done on the Indiana Toll Road P3. In energy there are 
examples of partnering with private companies to develop 
renewable energy sources or improve energy grid infrastructure. 
In health care there are examples of collaborating with private 
health care providers to deliver services in rural areas or 
manage specific health care programs. There are also examples 
in research and development (R&D) of funding research projects 
in collaboration with private companies to develop new 
technologies, such as in the pharmaceutical or biotechnology 
sectors. In community development there are examples of P3s 
that use private investment to revitalize urban areas through 
projects like housing development or infrastructure 
improvements. P3s in public-service accommodations include 
school buildings, prisons, student dormitories, community 
centers, and entertainment or sports facilities.
    Although P3 use is more extensive in other countries, there 
are important specific examples in the United States. Regarding 
school districts, there is a recent project by Miami-Dade 
County Public Schools (MDCPS), a project in Lee County, 
Florida, and another school P3 in Maryland. These projects 
illustrate how P3s can be used to deliver new educational 
facilities.
    P3 have also been used in the water sector in the United 
States. For example, the city of Rialto, California, contracted 
with Veolia to provide operation and maintenance services to 
the city's wastewater treatment plant and collection system. 
Similarly, Wilmington, Delaware, used a P3 to help that city 
provide more than $1.5 million in annual operating savings at 
its wastewater treatment plant.
    Regarding general lessons that can be learned and applied 
from other P3s, the main lessons are ensuring that the public-
sector project sponsor has adequate expertise and knowledge to 
properly execute and monitor a P3. This includes having the 
capacity to enforce the P3 contract over its entire life cycle. 
The second lesson is that the relatively high transaction costs 
of using the P3 approach is only appropriate where the expected 
benefits exceed those costs. This is more likely to be true for 
larger projects or where a number of smaller projects are 
bundled together.

Q.5. During the hearing, we had the opportunity to discuss the 
unduly burdensome Federal regulations, and the cumbersome red 
tape experienced by many due to the implementation of the 
National Environmental Protection Act (NEPA) of 1970. More than 
50 years after its enactment, NEPA regulations have made little 
progress to efficiently take environmental concerns into 
consideration when developing infrastructure, and instead have 
delayed projects from breaking ground, keeping local 
communities at a standstill. What is even more concerning, is 
that the burdensome process has been recognized--and rectified 
for some, but not for all through streamlined permitting 
processes for large-scale infrastructure projects.
    How do programs that prioritize ``green'' projects over 
traditional infrastructure projects, impact State and local 
communities?

A.5. Compared to other countries, the United States is 
notorious for slow and costly project delivery. One well-
recognized cause is the cumbersome environmental process as 
required under the National Environmental Policy Act of 1970, 
or NEPA. In a recent paper with two coauthors, I show that a 
typical environmental impact statement (or EIS) under NEPA now 
takes about 4\1/2\ years and is over 600 pages long. \3\ Some 
EISs take over a decade to complete. These cumbersome processes 
often discourage potential private partners from bidding on 
projects. A White House study in 2020 found that the NEPA 
permitting process takes between 3.5 and 6 years to complete, 
on average.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \3\ See Michael Bennon, Daniel Hormaza, and R. Richard Geddes, 
2024. ``A Hazard Analysis of Federal Permitting Under the National 
Environmental Policy Act of 1970'', Journal of Regulatory Economics, 
Springer, vol. 65(1), pp. 154-183, June.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Although a detailed discussion of NEPA reform is outside 
the scope of this document, two recent studies point the way 
for important reforms. Those studies are Robert Poole, Jr. 
``Reforming Environmental Litigation'', Reason Foundation, June 
26, 2024 (available at https://reason.org/policy-brief/
reforming-environmental-litigation/) and Nikki Chiappa, 
``Understanding NEPA Litigation: A Systematic Review of Recent 
NEPA-Related Appellate Court Cases'', (Washington, DC: 
Breakthrough Institute), July 11, 2024 (available at: https://
thebreakthrough.org/issues/energy/understanding-nepa-
litigation).
    Although many States have resources assigned to permitting-
related issues, only some have dedicated offices sufficiently 
resourced and empowered to address the known issues. Today's 
permitting challenges will be exacerbated by the accelerated 
pace of infrastructure investment over the next decade. Now, 
more than ever, there is an urgency to establish clear 
guidance, enabling clear communication and providing access to 
consistent information.

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