[Senate Hearing 118-642]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                                                        S. Hrg. 118-642

                NATIONAL SECURITY CHALLENGES: OUTPACING
                     CHINA IN EMERGING TECHNOLOGY

=======================================================================



                                HEARING

                               before the

                              COMMITTEE ON
                   BANKING,HOUSING,AND URBAN AFFAIRS
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                                   ON

         EXAMINING NATIONAL SECURITY CHALLENGES REGARDING CHINA 
                        AND EMERGING  TECHNOLOGY

                               __________

                            JANUARY 18, 2024

                               __________

  Printed for the use of the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs



                    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        
        
                   Available at: https: //www.govinfo.gov/





                                  ______
                                 
                     U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

60-365 PDF                   WASHINGTON : 2026









            COMMITTEE ON BANKING, HOUSING, AND URBAN AFFAIRS

                       SHERROD BROWN, Ohio, Chair

JACK REED, Rhode Island              TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey          MIKE CRAPO, Idaho
JON TESTER, Montana                  MIKE ROUNDS, South Dakota
MARK R. WARNER, Virginia             THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts      JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland           BILL HAGERTY, Tennessee
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada       CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming
TINA SMITH, Minnesota                J.D. VANCE, Ohio
RAPHAEL G. WARNOCK, Georgia          KATIE BOYD BRITT, Alabama
JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania         KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
LAPHONZA R. BUTLER, California       STEVE DAINES, Montana

                     Laura Swanson, Staff Director
               Lila Nieves-Lee, Republican Staff Director

                       Elisha Tuku, Chief Counsel

                  Amber Beck, Republican Chief Counsel

                      Cameron Ricker, Chief Clerk
                      Shelvin Simmons, IT Director
                       Pat Lally, Assistant Clerk



                                  (ii)









                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                       THURSDAY, JANUARY 18, 2024

                                                                   Page

Opening statement of Chair Brown.................................     1
        Prepared statement.......................................    42

Opening statements, comments, or prepared statements of:
    Senator Scott................................................     3
        Prepared statement.......................................    43

                               WITNESSES

Emily Kilcrease, Senior Fellow and Director of the Energy, 
  Economics, and Security Program, Center for a New American 
  Security.......................................................     5
    Prepared statement...........................................    45
    Responses to written questions of:
        Chair Brown..............................................    96
        Senator Cortez Masto.....................................    98
        Senator Van Hollen.......................................   100
        Senator Warnock..........................................   102
Jamil N. Jaffer, Founder and Executive Director, National 
  Security Institute and NSI Cyber and Tech Center, Antonin 
  Scalia Law School at George Mason University...................     6
    Prepared statement...........................................    67
    Responses to written questions of:
        Chair Brown..............................................   105
        Senator Cortez Masto.....................................   106
Lindsay Gorman, Senior Fellow for Emerging Technologies, The 
  Alliance for Securing Democracy at the German Marshall Fund of 
  the United States..............................................     8
    Prepared statement...........................................    85
    Responses to written questions of:
        Senator Cortez Masto.....................................   108
        Senator Van Hollen.......................................   108
        Senator Warnock..........................................   108


                                 (iii)
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
 
  NATIONAL SECURITY CHALLENGES: OUTPACING CHINA IN EMERGING TECHNOLOGY

                              ----------                              


                       THURSDAY, JANUARY 18, 2024

                                       U.S. Senate,
          Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met at 10 a.m., in room SD-538, Dirksen 
Senate Office Building, Hon. Sherrod Brown, Chair of the 
Committee, presiding.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIR SHERROD BROWN

    Chair Brown. The Committee will come to order.
    Last week, the Committee heard about the human toll that 
illicit fentanyl takes on our families, our friends, our 
neighbors. Witnesses stressed the need to come together to take 
action to stop the flow of illicit fentanyl from China and 
Mexico. This Committee, the entire Senate, did--just did that--
did just that last year when Senator Scott's and my bill 
included the FEND Off Fentanyl Act. We were successful together 
in making it a part of the annual defense authorization bill. 
It has not been--become law yet, even though it passed the 
Senate--the bill with our amendment in it passed the Senate, I 
believe, with 90 or 91 votes--because politicians in the 
House--extremists in the House have played politics and kept it 
out of the NDAA.
    The FEND Off Fentanyl Act was not the only Committee 
priority that the House blocked last year. They blocked two 
other important national security amendments in the NDAA, both 
of which received more than 90 votes in the Senate. Ninety-one 
senators voted in favor of an amendment offered by our 
colleagues, Senator Tester--thank you--and Senator Rounds, whom 
I saw earlier this morning, to prevent big investors in China 
from buying up American farmland and food businesses, clearly 
in our national security interest. We cannot allow foreign 
adversaries to buy up farmland in Ohio and around the country. 
It is a threat to our national security. It is a threat to 
rural economies and our way of life. Ninety-one senators also 
voted in favor of an amendment offered by Senators Casey and 
Cornyn, bipartisan amendment to allow us to better monitor U.S. 
companies' investments that fund Chinese--fund Chinese 
development of critical technology, including military 
technology.
    All three of these provisions have broad support, from 
Heritage Action to the Coalition for a Prosperous America. More 
importantly, they have the support--overwhelming support of the 
public. For far too long, our policy around China catered to 
multinational corporations and do not think the House and 
Senate were not part of that. They failed State--they failed--
that policy failed States like Ohio. In this Committee, we 
worked to change that. We found common ground. It is why all 
three of these bills remain top priorities in this Committee. I 
am committed to working with colleagues to make these 
provisions law.
    Of course, the threats posed by China are many and varied 
and growing. Our work to address national security risk posed 
by the Chinese Government should not end with those three 
provisions. We agree that China poses a real and growing threat 
to our national security. Perhaps nowhere is that risk more 
acute than with the development of advanced technology. China 
has used advanced technology, much of it stolen from the U.S., 
some of it sent there through corporate outsourcing, to ramp up 
its military modernization and build a mass surveillance State 
that commits deplorable human rights violations, including the 
detention of millions of Uyghurs and Xinjiang.
    Addressing these threats from the Chinese Government and 
improving our domestic capability to compete with China has 
been a top priority of this Committee. Five years ago, we 
updated the laws that govern our export control and inbound 
investment screening programs. Now we must assess whether our 
current authorities and the resources we commit to them match 
the threat we face. Export controls can be used to deny China 
and others access to U.S. technology that they could use to 
undermine our national security. We have made export controls a 
central feature of our national security and our foreign 
policy.
    In addition to assembling a global export control coalition 
in response to Russia's war against Ukraine, the Administration 
has added hundreds of China-based entities to the restricted 
trade list and imposed countrywide controls that restrict 
China's access to advanced semiconductors and tools and 
equipment needed to produce them. It ramped up enforcement 
efforts to safeguard our most sensitive technologies, but as 
Commerce Secretary Raimondo noted, the export control budget of 
the Bureau of Industry and Security is roughly the same as it 
was a decade ago, despite its ever-increasing workload.
    If we agree that export controls are critical to our 
national security, and I think we all do, then that is not good 
enough. We need a China policy for the world we live in today. 
We must prepare for what could come tomorrow. It means we must 
upgrade our economic security authorities and resources, 
accelerate efforts to persuade other countries to join us, and 
enhance our analytical capabilities so that we can better 
understand the effects that our economic security tools have on 
China, on U.S. companies, on companies and partner countries.
    Well, today--we will discuss today with our three witnesses 
how we should rethink and reorient how economic security 
programs are implemented to address the full range of risks 
posed by China. We will examine how we can strengthen these 
authorities and resources to build a stronger, more responsive 
economic security policy. Our country's policies regarding 
China have failed for too long. And they have been written, 
and, historically, we know this--they have been written, aided, 
and abetted by the Senate and the House and Presidents of both 
parties who sold out American workers, pure and simple, to 
increase the profits of multinational corporations, always, 
always, always looking for cheap labor, not to benefit national 
security, not to benefit American workers. This is on--this is 
on everyone that participated in this.
    We know that when companies outsource jobs, they outsource 
innovation. They outsource technological capabilities along 
with it. We live with the consequences. Look at the solar 
industry. Look at semiconductors. We cannot allow China to 
continue to use that technology. In many cases--say it--they 
stole it to enhance its military capabilities. We can agree 
that China is a real growing threat. Countering that threat and 
updating the failed policies of the past will continue to be a 
bipartisan focus of this Committee. I thank Senator Scott for 
that, and I know it will continue. Yeah.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR TIM SCOTT

    Senator Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning to the 
witnesses. Thank you for being here as well. Thank you, Mr. 
Chairman, for this opportunity to talk about such an important 
topic, but before turning to this hearing, I would like to take 
a moment and draw attention to the recent Iran-backed strikes 
in Iraq.
    Anytime American lives are put at risk, whether it is from 
Iran or their terror proxies like Hamas, we need to have a 
strong response, and that starts with this chamber passing my 
Revoke Iranian Funding Act. Every dollar that goes to Iran from 
this Administration's actions is a dollar that supports terror. 
Thank you.
    America is the land of opportunity and freedom, the 
opportunity to innovate, produce, and execute on individual 
ideas. These principles are what drives our strides in 
technological innovation and our emphasis on entrepreneurship. 
We have the strongest economy in the world, driven by its 
dynamic growth and evolution. We are the global gold standard 
that countries look on with envy. However, American 
exceptionalism is under attack from a country that does not 
want to play by the rules. That country is obviously China. To 
make sure our success does not become the victory of others, 
the U.S. Government must act strategically and with strength in 
protecting opportunities for growth at home and abroad.
    When we look at adversaries like the Chinese Communist 
Party, with their centrally planned economy that actively works 
to distort global markets for its own gain and continuously 
makes overt attempts to oust U.S. from our perch of leadership, 
we do not have to ask the question are they playing by the 
rules because we already know the answer to the question, and 
the answer is emphatically no. But China's approach, with their 
controlled markets, Government interventions, and intellectual 
property theft, is shackled to the openness of others, so we 
must act strategically to ensure that we are safeguarding 
America's treasure: our ability to innovate. We cannot let 
China continue its malign activities, especially in regards to 
using or even stealing American innovation and American 
technologies for nefarious purposes, like advancing its rapidly 
growing military.
    So as we consider American security and prosperity from the 
Banking Committee's jurisdiction, we should look first at our 
economic security tools. We need to examine the authorities 
provided to the executive branch, how they have been used, and 
how they can be improved for maximum effectiveness. However, an 
over application of these tools has the potential to push our 
adversaries closer together and damage the U.S.' and our 
industry's long-term abilities to innovate and generate jobs 
and to generate growth. Therefore, our use of these tools must 
be sharp but tailored.
    Thankfully, we can isolate bad actors through our sanctions 
policies, we can restrict malign investment through our CFIUS 
process, and we can curtail the export of critical goods and 
services to our enemies. These actions are stronger when we 
work together with our allies and stay focused on the true 
problem at hand, but, unfortunately, this Administration has 
yet again taken the wrong approach. This Administration has put 
politics over policy and in some ways, that is playing right 
into the hands of China.
    For example, the Department of Commerce's Bureau of 
Industry and Security, the steward of our export controls, is 
currently engaging in politically motivated attacks against the 
illegal firearms industry, a troubling trend. This 
Administration's regulators try to target lawful businesses 
through the regulatory process that do not fit their political 
narrative. This undercuts the Commerce Department's important 
mission of safeguarding U.S. technology, opening the door for 
distractions that will allow the CCP to take advantage.
    But the Commerce is not the only perpetrator. The 
Department of Treasury's primary focus appears to be on 
pursuing the limits of climate and green energy financing 
policy, and frankly, these objectives only advance China's 
solar and critical mineral energy positions in geopolitical 
affairs. Treasury's time, attention, and taxpayer-provided 
resources will be a much better spent working to ensure our 
sanctions policies on China remain up to date and promoting as 
well as protecting American industry abroad. We need an 
Administration that is focused on countering the real threat--
China--not one that is more interesting to politics.
    So while I am grateful that we have such an esteemed panel 
before U.S. today, I think it is imperative that we hear 
directly from the Administration as well. That said, I look 
forward to hearing from each of you and your expertise on the 
issues that will help strengthen our economy and strengthen our 
position against China and, importantly, to learning more from 
their perspectives on how we should act and respond to the 
threat.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Senator Scott. Emily Kilcrease is a 
senior fellow and direct--the director of the Energy, 
Economics, and Security program at the Center for a New 
American Security. Ms. Kilcrease, thank you for joining us. 
Jamil Jaffer is the founder and executive director of the 
National Security Institute and assistant professor of law at 
George Mason University. Welcome. Lindsay Gorman is senior 
fellow for emerging Technologies at the German Marshall Fund's 
Alliance for Security--Securing Democracy. Welcome, Ms. Gorman. 
Thank you all for being here. Ms. Kilcrease, please begin.

STATEMENT OF EMILY KILCREASE, SENIOR FELLOW AND DIRECTOR OF THE 
   ENERGY, ECONOMICS, AND SECURITY PROGRAM, CENTER FOR A NEW 
                       AMERICAN SECURITY

    Ms. Kilcrease. Good morning. Chairman Brown, Ranking Member 
Scott, Members of the Committee, it is an honor to be here 
speaking with you today. My comments draw from a large body of 
research that I have conducted on economic security issues at 
the Center for a New American Security, as well as my prior 
experience proudly serving in economic security roles in the 
U.S. Government, and please let me note, I am speaking today in 
my personal capacity.
    As Secretary of State Anthony Blinken has stated, China is 
the only country with both the intent to reshape the 
international order and, increasingly, the economic, 
diplomatic, military, and technological power to do it. The 
China challenge presents unique difficulties compared to prior 
eras of strategic competition given China's deep integration 
with the U.S. and global economies, which creates new types of 
national security risks arising from economic entanglement.
    Russia's brutal invasion of Ukraine and the increasingly 
authoritarian bent of China under Xi Jinping means that U.S. 
policy cannot rely on the deterrent effect of economic ties. It 
must instead focus on mitigating the national security risks 
arising from the economic relationship, prevent China from 
exploiting the open nature of the U.S. market, and anticipate 
future risks that may emerge due to the rapid global advance of 
critical technologies. These are formidable challenges and will 
require the Government to prioritize economic security 
programs, and as Congress considers ways to strengthen the 
capacity of U.S. economic security programs, key themes emerge 
across all of the programs related to strategy, evaluation, 
resources, and international partnerships.
    On strategy, the United States needs, but does not have, an 
economic security strategy, one that is integrated with our 
national security strategy and provides clear direction on how 
the United States will use all of its tools of economic 
statecraft in tandem to protect its economic and security 
interests with respect to China. A clear strategy will also 
facilitate conversations in alignment with key international 
partners. On evaluation, the United States is using economic 
security tools in greater and more clever ways than ever 
before, yet it does not have robust processes to assess whether 
these tools are actually working. It should, and it should 
include a clear-eyed look at the impact of these tools on U.S. 
competitiveness and U.S. alliances.
    On resources, implementing and enforcing a greater scope of 
economic security programs will require resources, and 
importantly, this means not just more money, but more money 
well spent, prioritizing those investments that can add 
efficiency and analytic rigor to the economic security 
programs. On international partnerships, a unilateral approach 
to economic security will not be a durable one as foreign firms 
rush to backfill U.S. technology exports and investments in 
China. China fears a united West, and it is critical that the 
United States leverage its advantage of alliances as it manages 
the strategic relationship with China.
    In addition to these cross-cutting themes, let me share 
brief thoughts on the set of economic security tools that we 
will be talking about today, and I will start with export 
controls. The United States is implementing new and more 
innovative types of export controls, including countrywide 
controls on commercial technologies in response to China's 
military civil fusion strategy and novel extraterritorial 
controls, including the foreign direct product rule.
    As export controls play a more central role in U.S. foreign 
policy, the capacity to enforce these rules while also 
evaluating their effectiveness, and, on top of that, assessing 
the need for additional controls, remains a bureaucratic 
challenge. Implementing new controls in emerging tech areas is 
particularly difficult as technology moves faster than 
Government can adopt policies in response. The budget for 
export controls has remained flat in real terms for over a 
decade. Additional resourcing, which Commerce Secretary 
Raimondo has called for, can enable much-needed investments, 
including related to export enforcement, regular review and 
updating of the Control List, and longer-term efforts to 
strengthen cooperation with international partners.
    Turning to CFIUS, first, I commend Congress for its keen 
focus on resources as part of the 2018 FIRRMA updates to the 
CFIUS process. This focus and attention has enabled CFIUS to 
effectively implement its expanded FIRRMA mandate. As Congress 
considers further updates, I encourage you to consider 
expanding the CFIUS definition of critical technologies to 
allow CFIUS a stronger ability to review transactions involving 
emerging tech areas, and CFIUS--oh, excuse me--Congress can 
also reduce mission creep by CFIUS by passing data security and 
data privacy legislation, issues that consume significant CFIUS 
resources simply because there are no other authorities to deal 
with those concerns.
    Finally, on outbound investment, Congress should establish 
new authorities to regulate U.S. investments in China. An 
outbound investment program should focus on those specific 
transactions that may convey nontechnical industrial know-how 
to China in critical technology sectors with relevance to U.S. 
national security interests. An effective design will include 
mandatory notifications, targeted prohibitions of investments 
in technologies that represent high national security risk, 
entity-based restrictions for particular bad actors, and end-
use restrictions.
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here today, and I look 
forward to your questions.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Ms. Kilcrease. Mr. Jaffer, welcome.

 STATEMENT OF JAMIL N. JAFFER, FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, 
  NATIONAL SECURITY INSTITUTE AND NSI CYBER AND TECH CENTER, 
      ANTONIN SCALIA LAW SCHOOL AT GEORGE MASON UNIVERSITY

    Mr. Jaffer. Thank you, Chairman Brown, Ranking Member 
Scott, and Members of the Committee. I appreciate the 
opportunity to be here to talk about the very real threat, the 
very real national security threat that China poses to our 
country and the connection between that threat and our ability 
to innovate and emerging technologies here in this country. I 
want to thank the Chairman and the Ranking Member for their 
leadership on issues related to China, including your 
leadership on the critical issue of fentanyl crossing our 
Southern border from China that is killing thousands of 
Americans on a yearly basis.
    When it comes to China and emerging technology, the facts 
are this: China has built its economy on stealing American and 
allied intellectual property. Millions and billions of dollars 
in total of American research and development dollars walk out 
the back door to China every year. That research development 
money is critically important to our ability to ultimately 
succeed in the larger economic, political, and military 
conflict with China. We will not win on steel. We will not win 
on population. We will only win if we out innovate China and 
outwork China.
    We can and will and have done this in the past, and we can 
and will do it again, but it requires significant action. It 
requires preventing American companies from transferring 
significant amounts of American technology to China 
inadvertently, whether through theft, forced IP transfers, 
joint ventures, or the like. The Chinese know how to manipulate 
our desired access to their markets in order to get our 
intellectual property. They have done it before. They will do 
it again. We need to work tightly with industry to ensure that 
does not happen.
    At the same time, we need to build capability in this 
country. That means providing the kind of tax and economic 
incentives to our companies to build and innovate here and to 
keep that intellectual property here in this country. It also 
means doing no harm. It means avoiding overregulation. It means 
avoiding selective enforcement of existing laws or modifying 
existing law to target our key innovative--most innovative 
companies in this country. Seventy percent of research 
development dollars in this country are spent by the private 
sector. Seven of the top 10 R&D spenders in this country are 
technology companies, including every single one of the top 
five. Going after our technology companies in an environment of 
competition with China makes little to no sense.
    At the same time, we need to ensure that we are 
incentivizing Americans, American companies, American 
entrepreneurs and investors to invest here. That means ensuring 
that we have the right structures and regulatory procedures in 
place to ensure that investments are free, open, and fair. That 
also means that we need to work with our investors to ensure 
that they do the right thing as well. There is no good reason 
why American investors should be investing in our adversaries' 
technology. They should be investing in American technology. We 
can incentivize that, and they have a benefit, too.
    Our capital allocators in this economy benefit from living 
in a free and open society. They benefit from an economic tax 
system that is the one that this country built. As a result, 
they should already be incentivized to voluntarily work to 
invest in American technology, American defense technology, and 
not in that of the Chinese, the Russians, the Iranians, or the 
North Koreans.
    Ranking Member Scott mentioned what is going on today in 
the Red Sea with the Houthis. He mentioned the ongoing attacks 
by Iran against Americans in Iraq and Syria. We must realize 
that the war in Ukraine, the potential threats against Taiwan, 
and Iran's bad behavior in the Middle East are not unconnected. 
China is working directly with Russia on its war in Ukraine. It 
is working directly with Iran on the provision of missile 
technology. It is working with North Korea on its nuclear 
program. China is at the heart of all of this. As a result, it 
is imperative that in this country we work tightly, hand in 
glove, industry with Government, bringing the right incentives, 
the right opportunities, preventing overregulation, ensuring 
that we work collaboratively to move this country forward.
    One last note. It is critical that we build a STEM-capable 
workforce in this country. That means investing in education 
and basic science research. It also means fundamentally fixing 
our broken immigration system. The idea that we bring thousands 
of foreigners to this country every year, the most brilliant in 
the world, to be educated and receive Ph.D.s in our 
universities and then force them to return home to build their 
companies and invest abroad is ridiculous. The idea that we 
have a system based on a lottery is crazy. We should pick the 
best and the brightest in the world and incentivize them to 
stay here and become part of the American Dream. That is what 
America always has been. It is what we should be in the future. 
It is how we will ultimately beat China economically, 
militarily, and politically.
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here today. I look 
forward to your questions.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Mr. Jaffer. Ms. Gorman, welcome.

    STATEMENT OF LINDSAY GORMAN, SENIOR FELLOW FOR EMERGING 
TECHNOLOGIES, THE ALLIANCE FOR SECURING DEMOCRACY AT THE GERMAN 
               MARSHALL FUND OF THE UNITED STATES

    Ms. Gorman. Chairman Brown, Ranking Member Scott, and 
Members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to 
testify before you today. I come at this issue as a researcher 
leading a team focused on technology and geopolitics at the 
German Marshall Fund, as a former policy professional 
developing allied technology cooperation initiatives, and, in a 
past life, as a scientist in the lab conducting quantum physics 
experiments and building artificial intelligence systems. I 
speak here today in my personal capacity.
    The United States has spent decades investing in, 
inventing, and reinventing new modes of warfare, modernizing 
our military in response to new adversary capabilities and 
threats. In the 1950s, the Pentagon's first offset strategy 
emphasized building up the U.S. nuclear arsenal to offset 
perceived conventional force disadvantages vis-a-vis the Soviet 
Union. When the U.S.S.R. gained nuclear parity in the late 
1970s and early 80s, the second offset strategy bet on 
precision strike and stealth technologies. Recently, a third 
offset strategy sought to reestablish flagging U.S. military 
technological superiority.
    Today, the United States' strongest autocratic rival uses 
tactics in economic, technological, and societal realms that a 
defense-first national security apparatus was not designed to 
counter. In the PRC, we face a competitor who wields its own 
economic power to coerce Nations, businesses, and individuals 
to achieve its technology and national security objectives. 
This multisectoral competition has strained the post-cold war 
view of international relations, in which more economic 
engagement has implied greater political, even democratic 
proximity.
    Much as we have in the past, the United States today must 
reorient and invest in new capabilities and tools to meet this 
threat. A key element of this effort is building out a 
doctrine, toolkit, and alliances for techno-economic 
statecraft. Some of these tools already exist, but many were 
designed for a different era, when their remit was far simpler 
in terms of ensuring that technology items with dual-use 
capability--those that could be used for both military and 
particular weapons of mass destruction, and civilian uses--were 
used for the latter and not the former in countries of concern.
    These dual-use applications often had clear signatures--
uranium enrichment thresholds, for example--signifying use for 
civilian nuclear power or as weapons-grade nuclear fuel. These 
modes are outdated and unfit for our modern challenges for 
three reasons.
    First, straightforward distinctions and thresholds between 
military and civilian applications of emerging technologies 
rarely exist. The same quantum computer that could 
revolutionize scientific discovery could break the encryption 
that secures our communications with submarines. The same 
synthetic biology processes that could engineer novel cancer 
therapies could also engineer pandemic pathogens, and the same 
computing capacity that fuels large language models can fuel 
drone swarms and mass surveillance. Second, the PRC's strategy 
of civil-military fusion further blurs these lines, making it 
difficult to have any confidence that any civilian use will 
stay a civilian use. And third, many of today's national 
security technology risks simply fall outside the military 
domain, such as human rights abuses, the promotion of 
autocratic values and standards in emerging technologies, and 
strategic dependencies in critical supply chains.
    Outpacing China no longer simply means outrunning the PRC 
but also impeding its capabilities in key force multiplier 
technologies. This will require the United States and its 
allies to control capabilities, not only technologies. In my 
written testimony, I discuss the inputs and considerations for 
controls in AI, biotechnology, and quantum information and 
provide recommendations along three lines. First, significantly 
expand U.S. and allied analytical capacity, including by 
establishing a national technology competitiveness analysis 
center; second, leverage cutting-edge technologies to track and 
control--to track control evaluations and evasions and bolster 
enforcement, from knowledge graphs and link chart analyses to 
data bases of Chinese entities and partnerships; and third, 
build capacity among U.S. allies and partners on novel techno-
economic statecraft tools and approaches modeled off FIRRMA's 
CFIUS expansion.
    Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Ms. Gorman. I will start with just 
an observation before I turn to Ms. Kilcrease for a question. 
Mr. Jaffer said that, essentially, that we need to incent U.S. 
corporations not to invest in China. These are the same 
corporations that lobbied this Congress 25 and 30 years ago, 
very successfully, because many of my colleagues like to be at 
the beck and call of corporate interests, because labor was too 
expensive in the United States, even too expensive in the 
Southern--the non-union South, and lobbied for first most 
favored Nation status.
    They decided that did not sound very good, so then 
permanent normal trade relations with China. U.S. corporations 
moved jobs overseas, benefited from it. Their bottom line: 
their stockholders benefited. American workers in my State, 
especially in my part of the country, were left behind. Now 
those same companies, we need to incent them not to invest in 
China. I mean, I do not disagree with that, but it is really a 
pretty remarkable irony of history. I will stop there.
    Question for Ms. Kilcrease and Ms. Gorman: Secretary 
Raimondo recently said the export control budget at BIS is 
roughly the same as it was a decade ago--you each mentioned 
that--from responding to China's--with an increasing workload, 
responding to Russia's invasion of Ukraine to new countrywide 
controls and chip exports. Both of you, quickly, if you can, 
two questions. Can you each describe what resources--
technology, information, personnel--Congress should provide to 
BIS to meet its growing export control mission? What are the 
negative implications of not increasing funding? Start with 
you, Ms. Kilcrease, and you, Ms. Gorman.
    Ms. Kilcrease. Thank you for the question. It is an 
incredibly important one, and I will quickly go through what 
could be a long laundry list on that. But there is a range of 
needs in the Department of Commerce as well as the other export 
control agencies. It is not just Commerce that has 
responsibility for implementing these. The bread-and-butter 
functions of license applications and export control 
enforcement absolutely need additional funding, but one thing I 
talk a lot about in my written statement is that we need to be 
spending these new resources wisely. We need to be really 
investing in the evaluation and analytic capabilities so that 
the Department of Commerce is not just relying on industry 
input but has access to a wide range of unbiased information as 
it is building up its capacity to evaluate and assess whether 
controls are actually working in practice. We do not have that 
capacity. We need that capacity, and it needs to be an unbiased 
kind of independent analytic capability.
    We need to invest in the international engagement function 
so we are not implementing controls unilaterally and we can 
really put in the political elbow grease to make sure we get 
partners and allies on board, and we need to be examining new 
ways of doing technical export control enforcement. I will flag 
some work that my colleague, Tim Fist, has done looking at, for 
example, on chip governance. It is a way to do smarter 
enforcement, not just more enforcement.
    I fear if we do not make these sorts of investments, the 
export control system will continue to be outdated. It will 
continue to be stuck in a kind of a cold war mentality, and it 
will continue to fail to capture the emerging technologies that 
are really at the center of the U.S. China competition.
    Chair Brown. Thank you. Ms. Gorman.
    Ms. Gorman. Yes, I very much agree with Ms. Kilcrease's 
response and would add that on the analytical capacity, part of 
what we are talking about is we do not have the tools to 
understand the downstream economic impacts to United States 
businesses and to China's own capacity development if we 
restrict certain critical technologies today. We need to make--
be making these decisions based on red team/blue team analyses, 
forecasting projects 5, 10, 20 years into the future, so that 
it is not about just slapping a control on one tiny bit of 
technology but really trying to limit the capabilities of China 
into the future, and we are making smart investments in those 
controls.
    This is what this kind of analytical center should do. We 
should not be leaving it to companies, even to researchers, to 
Members of Congress. We need the best information available. 
That also includes robust data bases that can draw information 
from all sources--from Chinese financial sources, that can 
track when Chinese entities pop up that are subsidiaries. They 
have a strategy now. Once they get put on an Export Control 
List, we see five new companies of a similar name popping up 
doing similar things. We need to be better at automatically 
adding those entities into our Control List and creating data 
bases and leveraging tools, like AI and data science, to be 
tracking those networks of smuggling sanctions evasion and 
these creative ways that China can circumvent our export 
controls. And then last, on the multilateral cooperative----
    Chair Brown. Quickly.
    Ms. Gorman. Yes.
    Chair Brown. Got it. OK. All right. Thank you. The other 
question I want for you, Ms. Kilcrease, I wanted to ask you 
about the Casey-Cornyn issue of outbound investment. Describe 
the regulatory gap that outbound investment authority would 
fill, and, if you can, as quickly as possible, why is it 
important for Congress to enact outbound investment legislation 
if an Executive order already exists?
    Ms. Kilcrease. Yeah. So I do think that there is a growing 
body of evidence that certain U.S. investments in China do 
present national security risks, and there is a gap in the 
authorities to address these. You know, the most common tool 
that people will raise is that of export controls, which 
regulates the transfer of technologies to China and other 
destinations, but the problem is that only captures part of the 
risk. It does not capture nontechnical information or 
industrial know-how that is nonetheless critical for advancing 
a country's capability in a particular technology ecosystem.
    The example that I think is most helpful is to think about 
a semiconductor fab, where when you think about what it takes 
to churn out chips at scale efficiently and on cost-competitive 
terms, that requires complex supply chain management. It 
requires a skilled workforce, the recruiting and retention of 
that sort of skilled workforce. It includes commercial 
strategies that can survive in a cutthroat environment. None of 
that is suitable to be captured under export controls, but it 
is, again, nonetheless critical for how China will build its 
capacity. And it is this exact sort of know-how that flows 
along with an investment, and we do not have a tool to capture 
that currently.
    So clearly, there has been a lot of debate on this, 
including in Congress and in the Administration. Substantively, 
I think the Administration's Executive order is headed in the 
right direction, but, ultimately, it is far better for these 
sorts of programs to be codified by Congress, particularly 
because we have this great example in the FIRRMA process where 
Congress was really able to shape and guide and provide 
appropriate resources to provide a clear legal mandate for what 
they wanted the executive branch to do. So ultimately, I do 
think it is incumbent on Congress to act on this problem.
    Chair Brown. Senator Scott.
    Senator Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for my 10 minutes, 
and I will start today.
    Chair Brown. Five plus 2 equals 7.
    Senator Scott. Well, in Washington math, that is 10.
    Chair Brown. Oh. Do you write his jokes?
    Senator Scott. He agrees with my jokes. Thank you, Senator 
Tester. He is eating in way at my time, by the way, as well, so 
11 minutes.
    Chair Brown. ----before you----
    Senator Scott. Thank you, sir.
    Chair Brown. ----10 and it is 11.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Scott. OK. Sorry about that. One of the largest 
pillars in China's campaign of economic coercion is this 
systematic theft of our IP. We have seen it time and again, 
from the corporate world to computing to agriculture, and what 
I find deeply concerning is that we are now seeing it on our 
college campuses, university campuses. I have written several 
letters to the Biden administration on this subject, and, 
thankfully, my amendment on gifts and grants from Chinese 
military firms to our institutions of higher education was 
signed into law in the last year's NDAA. Thankfully, with this 
report now, the Departments of Treasury and Education will be 
required to provide a full accounting of the donations that the 
Chinese military firms are providing to U.S. educational 
institutions, an important first step in the right direction.
    Mr. Jaffer, you are an academic. You are on college 
campuses. Talk to me a little bit about the national security 
threat that China's influence presents on our college campuses.
    Mr. Jaffer. Thank you, Ranking Member Scott. The idea that 
we would allow Chinese influence operations to take place on 
our college campuses through Confucius institutes, through 
research collaborations and the like, is deeply concerning. We 
know that the Chinese Government is engaged in a concerted 
effort to steal intellectual property, not just through cyber 
means, although that is the predominant means by which they do 
it, not just through physical capabilities by putting people in 
American companies and stealing that innovation, but by 
stealing core R&D taking place, basic science research in our 
colleges and universities, and they are doing that through 
these research collaborations.
    Now, there are collaborations that make sense with allied 
Nations. There are collaborations across borders that make tons 
of sense, but collaborating with Chinese researchers who we 
know are influenced and pressured by the Chinese Government on 
a regular basis to steal intellectual property simply makes no 
sense. Taking cash money from Chinese companies who have 
ulterior motives simply makes no sense. No university should do 
it, and I applaud you, Senator Scott, for having outted this 
fact and for calling it out once and again.
    Senator Scott. How do we--if you--if you were in charge, 
how would you help U.S. stop or reduce the amount of activity 
on those college campuses? How much further can we go than just 
the amendment that was a part of the NDAA in spotting it, 
bringing light to it? In addition to that, we have 300,000 or 
so Chinese students on our college campuses. I am not sure how 
many report back to the CCP, but it is a concern to me. I would 
love to hear your thoughts on that as well.
    Mr. Jaffer. Well, look, we always have to be careful to 
not, you know, tar every Chinese student that is here in the 
United States with the brush that they are working with the 
Chinese Government, but we have to recognize the Chinese 
Government is engaged in an active effort to bring students 
here, to bring researchers here, to work with American 
academics here in this country, pay them to transfer 
technology. The Thousand Talents Program and the like are a few 
examples of those.
    Now, in order to ensure that this does not happen when we 
bring students in, bring Chinese nationals in, vetting them--
frankly, nationals from any country--vetting them well, 
ensuring they are not a national security risk is an important 
part of that immigration process, including for students and 
the like and researchers. At the same time, Federal--
universities obtain a tremendous amount of Federal grant money. 
They obtain a tremendous amount of Federal financial aid for 
their students. Making those pipelines hard to access if they 
continue to allow their research and development to walk out 
the backdoor to China is a very significant penalty you can 
leverage. Now, I am not saying we should do that. I am saying 
we need to think cautiously about that.
    At the same time, if our universities are allowing this to 
happen and they know it is happening and are not taking action 
to stop it, public and private alike, action can be taken to 
make their lives a lot more difficult.
    Senator Scott. It sounds like a carrot-and-stick approach, 
though. You put ourselves--you put the Nation and the 
universities in a strong position to speak clearly and make 
good decisions with consequences. Without those consequences, 
to me, it seems like there will be--we cannot reinforce good 
behavior if all we are saying is ``please.''
    Mr. Jaffer. That is exactly right, and, you know, it goes 
to universities, it goes to investors alike. All of us have an 
incentive to do the right thing, right, to invest in American 
technology, protect our intellectual property, and ensure 
innovation stays here, right? We should recognize that because 
we live in this system of governance, in this economic system, 
benefiting our adversaries is actually contrary to all of our 
interests, and as a result, universities already have the 
incentive to do the right thing. Investors have the incentive 
to do the right thing. Providing them more incentives, and 
ultimately only reaching for the regulatory stick when you 
absolutely have to is ultimately, I think, the right approach.
    Senator Scott. Thank you.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Senator Scott. Senator Menendez of 
New Jersey is recognized.
    Senator Menendez. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Last Congress, I 
introduced the Economic Statecraft for the Twenty-First Century 
Act, a bill that provides a comprehensive plan to confront the 
anticompetitive, predatory nature of China's international 
economic policies. The legislation would allow U.S. to lead to 
our values by strengthening our supply chains with reshoring, 
nearshoring strategies, by achieving our energy-related 
sustainability goals, by fostering cooperation in multilateral 
institutions, by building global resiliency, among other 
things. So my question, Ms. Kilcrease, what effective economic 
tools do we presently have to have the United States be able to 
deal with our China challenge, and what, if any, additional 
authorities do you believe would be beneficial for U.S. in 
terms of leading our economic diplomacy?
    Ms. Kilcrease. Thank you for the question and for your 
leadership in developing economic statecraft strategy. It is 
critically important that as we think about the specific tools, 
we are also thinking about how all of these tools work in 
tandem to achieve our goals, and particularly if we are talking 
about technology leadership, and leadership in particular 
sectors, assessing these tools and how they work together is so 
important.
    You know, I think we have a growing body of tools that are 
effective. Some of our export controls, our investment 
screening, these are mature processes where there is always 
room for improvement, but we have well-established frameworks. 
We also have robust industrial policy at this point in the 
U.S., where we are really trying to implement the run faster 
part of the agenda, trying to invest in our R&D capabilities 
and strengthen our STEM capabilities as well. Ultimately, these 
are all the sorts of efforts that need to move forward in 
tandem.
    But that does not mean that our work is done, of course, 
right? We are talking today about outbound investment as one of 
the key ways to protect our economic security interests. We 
should also be having a conversation around tariff 
restructuring and how that could potentially be used in some 
cases to protect against Chinese unfair trade practices. That 
requires deep analysis, economic analysis of downstream 
impacts, but it is one of the areas where we do have a gap, and 
we need to consider, again, whether that sort of approach would 
advance our interests.
    Senator Menendez. Thank you. I want to talk about our lack 
of outbound investment oversight in sensitive industries that 
has the potential to harm our national security and hamper the 
competitiveness of U.S. industry because of the technical 
prowess, capital, and the unique know-how that access to the 
U.S. capital markets provide. President Biden's Executive order 
in August is a good start, but I fear it may be too limited. 
Ms. Gorman, is the order broad enough to prevent U.S. capital 
and expertise from financing the wide range of critical sectors 
that undermine U.S. national security?
    Ms. Gorman. Thank you for the question. I think the order 
itself, which focuses on AI, semiconductors, and quantum 
information systems exclusively, I think, can be seen, as you 
rightly point out, as a good start. We may in the future want 
to look at similar outbound investments on other critical and 
emerging technology areas, but this depends on where we have 
strategic advantages and also can mirror our other approaches 
to controlling technology outflows. We should not be allowing 
investors to invest in entities that we have determined we 
should not be selling those critical technologies to.
    But I think the outbound order is taking actually somewhat 
of a targeted approach, though when it comes to AI, that is 
going to be one of the hardest issues to get right in terms of 
how broad do we think about what AI is, what is military use, 
what is civilian use. These are not easy questions, but I think 
it is a good start.
    Senator Menendez. Well, with intellectual property theft, 
which remains an acute challenge in our dealings with China, 
and the theft of intellectual property related to cutting-edge 
technologies that could seriously degrade our national security 
and economic competitiveness, I wonder what can we do to expand 
on the President's order and make outbound investment review a 
more effective tool for limiting theft of high-tech secrets 
that are critical to national security?
    Ms. Gorman. It is a good question. I think we can try to 
tie in some strings to our investments. I think expanding our 
enforcement capabilities. The DOJ has certainly prioritized the 
intellectual property theft from China challenge. We need--we 
need more aggressive enforcement there and to be sure that we 
are not giving away the crown jewels of our technology through 
investments, through that transfer of know-how. And I think 
there is a piece of this, too, that involves communicating to 
our investors what our priorities are, incentivizing them to 
make investments in allied partner Nations, not only China, and 
raising awareness from them on what we are really trying to 
guard against.
    Senator Menendez. Thank you. Mr. Jaffer, it is good to see 
you. Mr. Jaffer was the chief counsel for the Republicans on 
the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and good to see you 
here. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Jaffer. Thank you, Senator Menendez.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Senator Menendez. Senator Tillis is 
recognized from North Carolina.
    Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for 
being here. Mr. Jaffer, I am going to submit a couple of 
questions for the record, but I have tried to explain to 
people--as late as last night, I had a telephone town hall. 
People were concerned about China and Chinese investment in the 
United States, and I tried to explain that some of that is not 
bad. It is a matter of where they are investing, but what I 
also tried to explain is how investment in China, not all 
investment in China is bad. For example, my favorite photo is a 
little girl wearing a Wonder Woman outfit with a Captain 
America shield, and she is Chinese. She is at a Disney park in 
China. Boy, I want as much Chinese investment as we can to 
export our culture to China, to let the Chinese people see what 
is possible in the free world.
    So how do you--how do we strike that balance and not make 
it untenable for American businesses to see a market of middle-
class Chinese, which is probably shrinking, given some of the 
reducing in size, but it is still about twice our population. 
How do we strike the balance as a matter of public policy?
    Mr. Jaffer. Yeah, it is a great question, Senator Tillis, 
and, you know, it seems sort of obvious, but, you know, 
investing in a tee shirt factory in China is fundamentally 
different than investing in a semiconductor fab. Transferring 
technology for, you know, manufacturing that happens at scale 
of nontechnological capabilities is different than transferring 
manufacturing know-how for critical minerals or processing for 
critical minerals. And so there is a commonsense element to the 
way our investors and our investment community ought to think 
about investment and business in China. You know, we all made 
the mistake in the 90s thinking that China being brought into 
the world--into the--into the, you know----
    Senator Tillis. ----toward a democratic, free market 
framework----
    Mr. Jaffer. Right.
    Senator Tillis. ----that never occurred.
    Mr. Jaffer. We all bought into that, right----
    Senator Tillis. Yeah.
    Mr. Jaffer. ----from President Clinton to Republicans in 
Congress.
    Senator Tillis. I did, too.
    Mr. Jaffer. And we were wrong.
    Senator Tillis. Mm-hmm.
    Mr. Jaffer. China has exploited the--its incentive system. 
It has taken advantage of it. It is playing unfair ball, and 
now it is using that repression that it imposes upon its own 
people and using the free markets to export that repression 
abroad.
    Senator Tillis. And I am wondering, I think, more broadly, 
because what we are really talking about here is making sure 
that China is not successful being the military and economic 
superpower by 2050, and it seems like if we are really going to 
talk about that, obviously we have to incent research and 
development. We have to make sure that the United States 
remains the innovator that it is today. We have to protect our 
intellectual property. We have to do everything we can, but it 
seems like we need to fight on several different levels. It 
seems to me that the Belt and Road Initiative, you got some 
buyers' remorse there, but we really have no alternative.
    So to what extent are we going to Africa and South America, 
going to these countries and creating a different value 
proposition? We do not have to be the lowest cost provider 
because we know that an American investment, an American 
framework in these countries means something more, and all of 
these countries, these leaders get it. So give me an idea. If 
you could wave a wand and be President for the day, what would 
be your global strategy, the multilevel strategy to go after 
China and prevent them from succeeding over the next 25 years?
    Mr. Jaffer. Well, I think, Senator Tillis, the first step 
is we have to be the strongest ally to our friends and the 
fiercest adversary to our foes. Today, our adversaries are not 
afraid of us. They know we are afraid to take action in the 
world, and our allies are not sure we will be there with them.
    Senator Tillis. And so failure. Would you argue that 
failure in Ukraine is the one thing China hopes happens this 
year?
    Mr. Jaffer. Absolutely.
    Senator Tillis. Yeah.
    Mr. Jaffer. Continued attacks by Iran without an--without 
an effective U.S. response makes China happy. North Korea 
launching missiles without us doing anything about it makes 
China happy. These things are not unrelated. China has a hand 
in all of this. They are working collaboratively with all these 
Nations. They recognize that a weak U.S., that either appears 
weak or is actually weak, benefits them.
    Senator Tillis. And do you--I mean, it is topical because 
of discussions we are having here around the supplemental in 
Ukraine funding. Do you believe that Putin will be happy and Xi 
Jinping will be thrilled if we decommit from Ukraine, and then 
what likely will occur there? I mean, do you--do you think it 
is in that order, that China sees more to gain from our lack of 
funding than even Putin?
    Mr. Jaffer. Absolutely, and the way you know that is that 
we saw Xi Jinping stand with Vladimir Putin, and in an aside he 
knew was being captured by the cameras says to Vladimir Putin, 
there are changes of the likes of which the world has not seen 
in 3 decades, and we, Russia and China together, are making 
those changes happen.
    Senator Tillis. And the last thing--I could talk to you for 
more than a day--but the last thing there, the fact that China 
came to the United States, the fact that Xi Jinping came to the 
United States means that he and the economy and the CCP is on 
the ropes, right? And when they are on the ropes, you keep them 
there and you keep them in a corner, and one of the ways you do 
that is to step up and lead. And I think leadership means that 
we provide supplemental funding to Ukraine. Thank you.
    Mr. Jaffer. Totally agree.
    Chair Brown. Senator Tester of Montana is recognized.
    Senator Tester. I want to thank the Chairman and the 
Ranking Member for having this hearing, and I want to agree 
with Senator Tillis' line of questioning, and I appreciate your 
response, and I want to thank all three of you for your 
testimony.
    Leading is something that is really important. We had an 
opportunity to do some things in last year's NDAA. The Ranking 
Member and the Chairman both talked about this. The House 
blocked every damn thing we tried to do, whether it was a FEND 
Off Fentanyl bill that we had a hearing on last week that would 
have held Chinese entities accountable, passed this body by a 
number that we never get numbers like that, in the high--in the 
90s, or whether it was an amendment led by Senator Rounds and 
myself that would have stopped China and foreign adversaries, 
the ones you mentioned, Mr. Jaffer--North Korea, Iran, and 
Russia--from buying farmland, which was also blocked by the 
Republican leadership in the House. I am going to tell you 
obstruction, it does not take anybody with a brain to do 
obstruction, and so if obstructionism is the--is the rule of 
the day, the House is doing it, and they are doing it really 
well to the destruction of this country.
    I am a farmer. Most people understand that food security is 
national security. If you want to screw up a company, screw 
around a country, screw around with their food supply. 
Recently, we just got a word that a Chinese national bought 
200,000 acres of land in Oregon. We did not know about it. That 
means our system does not work. It means self-reporting does 
not work. These folks do not want to self-report, and so we 
have got some work to do here, but, doggonit, this should not 
be a Republican or Democrat or House or Senate. This is the 
United States of America. And so keeping our country safe, not 
allowing China to spy on us, is really, really important.
    There has been a lot of talk about exploiting American 
innovation here today and it is a fact, and we need to make 
sure that we stop that from happening. When the--when the spy 
balloon that went over the United States was shot down, there 
was some--there was some information that was delivered that 
they used some technology that was bought in this country. I 
could ask all three of you this, but I am going to ask Mr. 
Jaffer. Some of this stuff was pretty simple. Some of it was 
more complicated than simple. Is there any way to stop this 
kind of stuff from happening? Is there anything we could do? 
And after he gets done, if other two would like to respond, you 
can.
    Mr. Jaffer. Well, Senator Tester, you know, there is a spot 
of hope in the House. You have Chairman Gallagher and Ranking 
Member Krishnamoorthi, who have done a lot of great bipartisan 
work together on the China Select Committee to move initiatives 
forward. Now, there are challenges with leadership and 
challenges getting, you know, the bipartisan group there 
together in the House, but there are opportunities, I think, to 
work and to get some of this stuff done. I think the Nation is 
waking up to the China threat. You mentioned the sale of 
certain technologies that end up in Chinese equipment.
    Senator Tester. Yeah.
    Mr. Jaffer. You know, it is crazy that American parents buy 
Chinese drones for their children for Christmas, you know?
    Senator Tester. Right.
    Mr. Jaffer. We have got to work to ensure that the American 
people are well educated about this, and by the way, they are. 
You go--I was just in Iowa a few weeks ago, and Iowans are 
worried about what you talk about, the purchase of farmland by 
Chinese corporations.
    Senator Tester. Yep.
    Mr. Jaffer. They are deeply concerned about that, and you 
are exactly right. I think there are opportunities. The 
American people are there. It is now bringing our businesses, 
and our industry, our Government, together with where the 
American people are to say this is not an acceptable situation. 
We cannot function in a world in which American technology goes 
into Chinese spy balloons or Chinese corporations are allowed 
to buy American farmland, or, frankly, land around our 
airports, our military facilities, and the like. It is not 
acceptable. It has to stop.
    Senator Tester. Correct. Anybody else want to respond to 
that? OK.
    Ms. Gorman. Sure. I would--I would just add I think there 
is a reason for optimism, and public engagement can go a long 
way.
    Senator Tester. Yeah.
    Ms. Gorman. One issue that we have tracked extensively, as 
I know many here have as well, is the issue of information 
platforms, such as TikTok, operating in the United States. Four 
years ago, when we raised these concerns, I think we were 
laughed out of the room. What does--who cares about a meme app? 
Who cares about cat videos? This is not a national security 
threat. Today, the most recent Pew Research poll from last year 
found that now, about 6 out of 10 Americans now view TikTok as 
a national security threat. That is public education in action.
    Senator Tester. Yeah.
    Ms. Gorman. And so I think there is promise.
    Senator Tester. OK.
    Ms. Kilcrease. Yeah. I would just add we keep getting 
caught short by these sorts of examples----
    Senator Tester. Yeah.
    Ms. Kilcrease. ----whether it is the spy balloon or TikTok 
or BGI or whatever the specific Chinese company is, and that 
means we have got a blind spot in our analytic capabilities.
    Senator Tester. Yeah.
    Ms. Kilcrease. We do not understand what is happening in 
China's technology ecosystems at the level that we should. And 
so as we think about how to strengthen our tools, you know, 
that is an area we should be prioritizing. Do we have experts 
in the Government who have access to both classified 
information and a wide range of open-source information that 
really know exactly what is happening inside of China's tech 
ecosystem.
    Senator Tester. Really quickly, I am a farmer. Self-driving 
tractors have been around for about 15 years. I finally got to 
a point where I was going to buy a piece of equipment that 
would allow that tractor to drive with me sitting in the cab. 
Every company I called was Chinese, and the people I were 
talking to was in mainland China, and finally I found an 
American company, and you know what he told me? He said--I told 
him what I just told you guys, and he said, yeah, they stole 
our equipment and remanufactured it. We got to do something 
about this, and we got to remove the stupidity that is going on 
over at the House.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Senator Tester, for--always for 
your wisdom, born and being a real farmer, so thank you. 
Senator Hagerty from Tennessee is recognized.
    Senator Hagerty. Thank you, Chairman Brown. On December 20 
of last year, Gary Peters and I--Senator Gary Peters from 
Michigan and I introduced a bill to prohibit U.S. taxpayer 
dollars from going to companies like BGI that would use this 
funding to gain access to the U.S. market and, importantly, 
gain access to American citizens DNA--DNA data, I should say, 
their genetic data. I want to thank Senator Peters for working 
with me on this. He is prioritizing this bill for this month's 
Committee markup. I look forward to getting this passed to deal 
with this fast-moving threat.
    I think all of you know this, that BGI is the largest 
collector of genetic data in the world. BGI stores this data in 
China's National Gene bank, which is directly managed by BGI, 
and it is owned by the Chinese Government. BGI has analyzed 
some of this data that it has collected using supercomputers 
that are built and operated by the Chinese military. What 
concerns me here is not just the collection, the storage, and 
the analysis of this highly sensitive data. It is also China's 
ability to use this trove of biological data and other life 
sciences data to train advanced dual-use artificial 
intelligence models, perhaps for malign purposes.
    So, Ms. Gorman, I am going to start with you. The question 
has two parts. I have heard from many AI professionals 
regarding the risk of China having access to massive life 
science training data. What, in your opinion, is the greatest 
national security concern regarding BGI's access to this, and 
what could the Chinese Government do with troves of U.S. 
genomic and other life sciences data when you couple it with 
advanced AI models?
    Ms. Gorman. Senator, thank you for the question. Really, 
thank you for your leadership in raising awareness of these 
issues on genetic data and genomic data. I think there are a 
number of maybe doomsday scenarios that experts would point 
to--personalized bio-weapons, for example--that could be 
designed. What I am more concerned about are two things. One, 
that these--DNA information is some of our most sensitive 
information, and we already know that the PRC has an ethnic 
mission to remake its population in favor of its Han Chinese 
population and is committing massive human rights abuses on its 
ethnic Muslim populations, like the Uyghurs. DNA surveillance 
can put that on steroids.
    Senator Hagerty. Mm-hmm.
    Ms. Gorman. Second, there is a competitiveness worry here. 
These technologies are the future. Personalized medicine, 
individualized medicine combining biotechnology and artificial 
intelligence, these are where our future therapies are going to 
come from, and I do not want them to come exclusively from 
China.
    Senator Hagerty. Mm-hmm.
    Ms. Gorman. So I worry that they are amassing these data 
bases, and we--because we will not collect DNA on our own 
citizens, and nor should we, we might fall behind.
    Senator Hagerty. And this is to any of you that want to 
respond to this, but what do you think Congress should do to 
prevent China from gaining access to this type of life sciences 
data that could be used to train dual-use AI models?
    Ms. Kilcrease. You know, I think there are a range of tools 
that Congress could consider. It is worth just emphasizing a 
point that Ms. Gorman made. You know, genomic data is 
particularly sensitive. If somebody steals my password, I can 
change my password. I cannot change my genomics or my genes, 
you know.
    Senator Hagerty. Yeah.
    Ms. Kilcrease. And so we should be looking at a heightened 
level of sensitivity----
    Senator Hagerty. Mm-hmm.
    Ms. Kilcrease. ----and a heightened level of protection 
precisely because of the unique nature of this sort of data. So 
a range of things that we could think about, certainly U.S. 
taxpayer dollars should not be going to support the growth of 
Chinese national----
    Senator Hagerty. Agreed. Yeah.
    Ms. Kilcrease. ----champions in this space, of course. We 
should be thinking about their access to our U.S. domestic 
market. You know, a weak spot in our economic security toolkit 
is Chinese access to the U.S. domestic market. That comes up in 
the ICTS space. It certainly comes up in this space as well.
    Senator Hagerty. Senator Peters and I are trying to get at 
that, yeah.
    Ms. Kilcrease. Exactly. The last point I would add is there 
is a broader conversation about the bulk transfer of any sort 
of sensitive U.S. person's data overseas to foreign 
adversaries. We simply do not have a legal authority that 
allows us to prevent that, and that is a real national security 
risk.
    Senator Hagerty. I think we should take a hard look at 
that. I would like to stay with you, if I might, Ms. Kilcrease. 
I want to shift gears to talk with you about Nippon Steel's 
proposed acquisition of U.S. Steel. You have publicly stated 
that you would be shocked if the deal got blocked. You are a 
former senior staffer at the Committee on Foreign Investment in 
the U.S., CFIUS. Could you walk us through the foreign 
investment review process and explain why you believe the deal 
would be unlikely to be blocked for national security reasons?
    Ms. Kilcrease. Sure, and I will focus my comments really on 
the CFIUS legal framework and how CFIUS typically views risk 
assessments in these sorts of transactions.
    You know, CFIUS, under its mandate from Congress, is laser 
focused on national security risks, but its concept of national 
security can be flexible. It can include economic factors, and 
so for a transaction like this that involves a critical 
component for our defense industrial base, I would expect that 
they would be looking--certainly, first of all, they will--they 
will look at the deal, right? It is a big deal, it is a 
significant deal, so there is an interest to review the deal in 
the first instance.
    But as they are thinking about risk, they will be looking 
at how the transaction would affect domestic production and 
domestic availability of steel, particularly the sorts of steel 
that are important for our national security platforms. They 
may also be looking at the workforce available to support that 
continued production. If there is a problem there, CFIUS has a 
range of authorities it can use to impose mitigation terms on 
the deal. That is typically how CFIUS in past practice has 
addressed those sorts of economic related concerns, to the 
extent that they rise to the level of a national security risk.
    Senator Hagerty. Can you apply them to this instance then?
    Ms. Kilcrease. So with the caveat that I do not have access 
to all of the deal information, you know, my sense is that if 
they did think that the acquisition was likely to lead to these 
negative sorts of impacts on U.S. domestic steel production, 
that it is very possible that there would be a mitigation 
agreement that would be either negotiated with or imposed on 
the companies to address those and to make sure that those are 
not those negative impacts. You know, the comment that I made 
that you quoted that I would be shocked if the deal actually 
got blocked is simply because we typically--CFIUS typically 
does not block those sorts of deals or does not recommend that 
the President block those sorts of deals based on past 
practice. The fact that it is Japan and not China making the 
acquisition, I think, will be relevant in their consideration. 
I think there will be an incentive to, you know, consider the 
alliance aspect in their review as they move forward.
    Senator Hagerty. Thank you. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Senator Hagerty, for exploring 
that. Senator Warren--Warner from Virginia is recognized.
    Senator Warner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for 
having this hearing, and, Ms. Gorman, it is good to see you. I 
will quickly address one of the things you mentioned about 
TikTok. I do think it is a national security concern. I think 
we have--it is remarkable, though, what the power of money buys 
in this town. When we had broad-based bipartisan support on a 
comprehensive approach that would not only take on TikTok, but 
a framework for threatening technology from adversarial 
Nations, it was--almost looked like it was going to be too easy 
at first. We had 26 senators evenly divided, support from the 
Administration, support from lots of industry, to have this 
organized approach so it would not be a one-off. ByteDance then 
dropped $100 million on getting folks from the far left and the 
far right to come out against our approach. They literally 
bought up advertising. Every political tip sheet in D.C. was 
sponsored by--for weeks on end by TikTok. And I think this 
problem has not gone away, and we need to revisit it now more 
than ever as we see TikTok, and, unfortunately, I think the CCP 
play out their agenda using TikTok because it is a news 
delivery model.
    I want to talk a little bit, though, about another area on 
open source. Open source has played a huge role in things like 
software development for years. We have seen it play a role in 
semiconductor architecture, AI models, AI development models. 
It is one of the reasons why I have worked with Senator Kennedy 
on this Committee on a bill, Senate Bill 3554, the Financial 
Artificial Intelligence Risk Reduction Act, that goes after 
some of the challenges around AI in the financial markets where 
I think we have huge, huge vulnerabilities. I want to get the 
plug in on my bill, and I am come back to open source. Now, you 
know, there is a lot of value in open source, but I have been--
when we look at some of the projects, like the RISC-V 
initiative, how the PRC is using that in the semiconductor area 
to gain information.
    And maybe just go down the aisle, starting with you, Ms. 
Kilcrease. How do we--how do we do--you know, there is value in 
open source, there is a lot of good research going on in open 
source, but how do we better educate American companies that, 
many times through some of these open source projects, we are 
basically giving away the crown jewels for free. I can tell 
you, sitting from the--Chairman in the Intelligence Committee, 
we see China prey upon these open-source opportunities all the 
time. How do we do a better job of getting companies to 
understand that risk? And I will take of--each of you.
    Ms. Kilcrease. Thank you for the question. It is a really 
hot button issue in certainly the chip space and in the AI 
space right now about how to think about open source models. 
You know, it is important to recognize upfront that this is 
exactly the kind of tactic that China would use to circumvent 
ever-increasing levels of controls. If they cannot get the chip 
directly, if they cannot access controlled design technology, 
they will, of course, look for what is available on the open 
market through either licit or illicit means.
    Now, there are benefits to the open source approach, and 
certainly some of the safety researchers will tell you that 
there are some benefits to having the public being able to 
access and test these sorts of open source models. However, it 
really does depend on who is doing that, right? And as we think 
about trying to make these tradeoffs and these balances, I do 
think we need to have a more serious conversation on controls, 
on the release of some of these models, particularly the really 
powerful frontier AI models, where we do not even know what 
those things are capable of yet.
    Senator Warner. Mm-hmm.
    Ms. Kilcrease. And so whether that is putting parameters 
around AI models with a certain computing power, compute 
function, really just trying to put in place some commonsense 
guardrails that maintains a level of openness so we can get 
those innovation and public safety benefits while also making 
sure that those sorts of models do not go to adversary 
countries.
    Senator Warner. Mr. Jaffer.
    Mr. Jaffer. Thanks, Senator. Look, I think there is a 
challenge when you think about putting the kind of restrictions 
on that we are talking about, this idea of open source models 
that have a certain size or certain compute power. We do not 
know what those technologies can do, but we also do not know 
the benefits they can offer us. So I think artificially 
limiting those ahead of time could be a mistake. I think the 
right approach instead is to take a more comprehensive look 
across the board and realize that our system benefits from 
having both open source capabilities out there as well as 
private proprietary software, and that we work best in an 
environment where both operate in parallel, and there are open 
source capabilities that are out there.
    Those tend to be less powerful. You will find the 
proprietary models will likely be more powerful and more 
capable, and, ultimately, because they are able to make more 
money off those, will be able to sell those at higher rates. 
And so you will see more investors, I think, head toward 
proprietary capabilities, but shutting off the open source 
environment, I think, would be a mistake, just like putting 
artificial constraints on models based simply on their compute 
power and the like.
    Senator Warner. ----necessarily shutting off, but I am 
thinking we ought to be going eyes wide open.
    Mr. Jaffer. Absolutely.
    Senator Warner. And I fear sometimes some of the companies 
involved do not recognize that. Ms. Gorman.
    Ms. Gorman. Senator, it is great to see you, too, and I 
agree that heading into this historic election year with the 
TikTok election is disastrous. On the open source question, we 
have to take it back to what are our national security 
objectives, and here, I would actually put forward that we 
should look at the applications. We are going to see 
specialized models that are application-specific large language 
models. Processing text is just but one of these examples. We 
are going to see the large language models for our immune 
system, the large language models for manufacturing data. Which 
of those application areas have a national security sensitivity 
that we do not want that to be open source?
    And I would also add that there is an advantage of open 
source beyond just our innovation advantages, but there is 
actually a strategic advantage, which is that we benefit from 
the fact that GitHub and open-source platforms and software 
engineering, they are written in English. That English is the 
lingua franca of software development, and Chinese engineers 
publish in English. I do not think we should cede that 
advantage, as well, because China is also developing their own 
open-source models and open-source platforms and data bases, 
and that is actually an area for competition as well.
    Senator Warner. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Brown. Senator Vance from Ohio is recognized.
    Senator Vance. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to you and 
Ranking Member Scott for hosting the hearing, and thanks to the 
three of you for being here.
    I want to direct my questioning to Ms. Kilcrease. In 
particular, I want to ask you about a live situation, the 
Nippon Steel acquisition of U.S. Steel and something that I 
know a number of my colleagues from both sides of the aisle 
have expressed some concern about, and I have shared in those 
concerns. In fact, I wrote a letter months ago, worried that 
the U.S. Steel board would entertain foreign bids, even though 
I think it is a bad idea for a host of reasons we can get into. 
But, you know, but one of my concerns here is that the interest 
of foreign bidders in U.S. steel is not primarily about green 
fielding investment into the United States of America. They are 
not expanding steel production domestically, and they are not 
necessarily doing it because they have better access to 
capital. They are doing it primarily as a sort of tariff 
arbitrage. They are effectively buying access to the domestic 
markets in a tariff-free way.
    And, you know, I think that in a--in a world where, first 
of all, we are talking about one of the most protected 
industries, steel, in the world, pretty much every country that 
has a steel industry has significant protections placed on it. 
And we have learned the hard way over the last couple of years 
that America's capacity for manufacturing in some of the most 
critical weapons and other things is actually pretty 
lackluster, given our needs. I worry about what this means for 
our country, and I just want to ask, you know, this question. 
So am I right, Ms. Kilcrease, that the only real tool or the 
only real organization that could review this transaction would 
be CFIUS?
    Ms. Kilcrease. That is right. CFIUS is the one that would 
review this foreign investment consistent with its national 
security mandate.
    Senator Vance. Right.
    Ms. Kilcrease. There may be antitrust as well, but it is 
basically CFIUS----
    Senator Vance. And we are expecting a CFIUS review on this 
particular transaction, correct?
    Ms. Kilcrease. We are, and there have been public 
statements to that effect, yes.
    Senator Vance. Got it.
    Ms. Kilcrease. Yeah.
    Senator Vance. So here's my question.
    Ms. Kilcrease. Mm-hmm.
    Senator Vance. CFIUS is primarily or maybe exclusively a 
national security standard that it applies to reviewing these 
transactions. Can CFIUS consider public interest concerns as 
part of its review?
    Ms. Kilcrease. It cannot. So CFIUS is a national security 
test. It is a broad and flexible concept of national security, 
but if the concern, for example, is whether foreign investors 
are trying to get around tariff structures, it would be unusual 
for CFIUS to take action on that basis. And we probably do not 
want to encourage the bureaucracy to kind of get outside the 
four corners of the legal mandate it has been given by 
Congress.
    Senator Vance. Yeah, I agree with that. I guess part of my 
question is whether the--that we think that the four corners' 
legal mandate here is a little too narrow for what we are 
concerned about and what we are interested in.
    Ms. Kilcrease. Mm-hmm.
    Senator Vance. What do you think--I mean, if we wanted to 
empower our Government to, you know, ensure that we had things 
like sufficient native domestic production of steel, what do 
you think we might--maybe should do here? You know, if you were 
sort of, you know, legislator for a day and we wanted to 
further empower the Congress to protect, and I use that word 
intentionally, the domestic steel industry, what do you think 
we should be doing differently vis-a-vis transactions like this 
one?
    Ms. Kilcrease. So if there was a desire to have authorities 
on more of a public interest test for our foreign investment 
reviews, certainly that would require additional legislation. 
That is a gap. If the policy objective is to protect those 
sorts of domestic industries, apart from distinct national 
security concerns, we do not have a tool to do that today. So 
you would certainly want to consider whether there is a need 
for additional legal authorities as well as considering the 
impacts more broadly on downstream industries and broadly 
across the economy for that sort of proposal.
    Senator Vance. Great. I appreciate that, and, you know, 
maybe my office can follow up on some ideas on that front 
because I do think it is important. And I know just on this 
point, just to pontificate a little bit, there has been some 
concern, some pushback on my view that, you know, you should 
not be worried about Nippon Steel buying U.S. Steel because 
Japan is an ally, and Nippon Steel appears to be a very good 
company. I do not disagree with that. I think it is important 
to sort of point out that the Japanese are--you know, it is a 
great, great people, and they are an important ally.
    They also are fundamentally in the sphere of influence of 
China. You can imagine a scenario where domestic steel needs 
would fall by the wayside when you have an international 
company that owns those--that owns those rights and owns those 
production mandates. So just because they are an ally, I think, 
does not mean we should not be concerned about a foreign 
competitor buying up one of the most important industries, one 
of the most important companies for a very, very critical--not 
just national security, but full American interest company. So 
with that, I will yield, and thanks to the Chairman for giving 
me some time.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Senator Vance. Senator Cortez Masto 
from Nevada is recognized.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman, and I 
want to thank the Chairman and Ranking Member for another 
incredible hearing today on an important topic. All three of 
you, thank you, for giving us pause to question where we need 
to move forward and where the gaps are and what is working 
well.
    Let me--and let me, Mr. Jaffer, start with you because I 
could not agree more. We have got to start thinking, we bring 
those jobs back here, we bring the manufacturing, the 
processing back here. Here is an area that, for me, and I am 
from a mining State, the State of Nevada, and I have watched 
China as they have cornered the market on mining, and China 
currently controls about 90 percent of global rare earth 
mineral processing and rare earth magnet manufacturing, and 
that was not just by chance, right?
    Last month, China announced an export ban of rare earth 
extraction and separation technologies. Between this action and 
its recent export ban on other minerals, like graphite, 
gallium, germanium, it is clear China is threatening to 
weaponize areas where it has dominance over critical supply 
chains. For the benefit of the public if they are listening, 
there is not any rare earth mineral mining, except maybe one 
place, and that is Nevada and California. So that is why 
Senator Mullin and I have legislation to strengthen the 
domestic rare earth magnet supply chain and bring that 
extraction, the processing, manufacturing of these critical 
minerals, back here to the U.S. I hope my colleagues join us in 
this legislation.
    But my question to you is, how should the U.S. be thinking 
about our own export controls in light of these moves? We have 
had conversation. What else have we not talked about today?
    Mr. Jaffer. Well, you know, Senator Cortez Masto, I think 
it is critically important the issue you raised, this idea of 
critical minerals, strategic metals, rare earths. The fact that 
we do not have access to those here in the United States, the 
fact that we could get access to it, but our own environmental 
laws, our own--our own willingness to move our policies in the 
direction of making ourselves independent from China on those, 
is part of the problem, and it is not just the actual minerals 
themselves. Even when those minerals come from abroad, we 
cannot process them here because we do not have the 
capabilities. Our environmental laws and other laws make it 
hard for us to do that in the United States. We have got to 
incentivize businesses to engage in both mining extraction and 
processing here in the U.S. if we are going to free ourselves 
from this capability.
    And then going beyond that, I think that what we have to 
realize is that, to your point, this was not a mistake. This 
was not by accident that China ended up with a--with a huge 
portion of the world's capabilities in processing and obtaining 
and extracting minerals. They are making these moves in a range 
of other industries as well, whether it is semiconductors, 
access to data, artificial intelligence and the like, high-
performance computing, accelerated computing. We need to be--
recognize that China is strategic. They have a 2030, 2050, 
hundred-year view of the world. We operate, and what makes us 
so innovative is we operate on a every month, every year, every 
quarter view of the world, and that makes U.S. rapid and 
innovative.
    At the same time, we have to recognize that we are 
contending with an adversary that has a generational view of 
the problem. We need to take a generational approach. That 
means working closely with our allies. It is onshoring and ally 
shoring, and recognizing that our allies have a choice to make. 
If Europe is not with us, they do not succeed. They need to 
understand that Europe coming after American companies is a 
huge mistake. It does not benefit us, it does not benefit them, 
and it harms all of us in the long run against China.
    Senator Cortez Masto. And would you agree that China is 
taking advantage of the partisan bickering that is happening in 
Congress right now?
    Mr. Jaffer. One hundred percent. The partisan bickering 
happening in Congress and the partisan bickering happening in 
our country.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Yeah.
    Mr. Jaffer. The fact that we are divided as a Nation on 
issues like Ukraine, on issues like Israel, on issues like 
America's role in the world is a benefit to China. We need to 
get on the same page. It needs to be America leading the world, 
and it needs to happen as soon as possible.
    Senator Cortez Masto. I agree. This is--this is for the 
panel because there is another area, and I so appreciate this 
conversation. It is a challenge for us to, quite honestly, get 
anything done, right? There are some good things that we have 
talked about that we have done. There is more that needs to be 
done. Let me just bring one of them to you and get your 
thoughts on this. This is the idea of privacy.
    So the director of the White House's office of Science and 
Technology Policy said that Federal privacy legislation must 
work in harmonization with Congress' forthcoming legislation to 
create guardrails on artificial intelligent development. We are 
having this conversation about AI. I absolutely agree we need 
guardrails, we need to figure this out, but there is an idea 
that we also have to address privacy, privacy and security. 
Now, I have legislation that I have introduced 4 years ago. 
There is legislation out there my colleagues have introduced on 
privacy and security. Has not passed. We have not moved forward 
as we have watched some States do it. We have watched European 
Union.
    So I guess my question to all of you is, how important is 
it for us not just to address the AI and the challenges we are 
facing there, but also address this idea about privacy and 
privacy data and security? Would you agree that they need to be 
harmonized?
    Ms. Gorman. Yeah.
    Ms. Kilcrease. Absolutely. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.
    Ms. Gorman. No, go ahead.
    Ms. Kilcrease. It is such a huge national security risk. 
You know, as you think about the future that our children are 
growing up in and the lives that they are living online, and 
the fact that that is data that can be scooped up and sold to 
the highest bidder, it is terrifying. It is not in the public 
interest. It should be a high priority for Congress.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Mm-hmm.
    Mr. Jaffer. I think there is a real call to do something on 
privacy. I think the challenge is we need to avoid making the 
mistakes the Europeans made. They passed comprehensive privacy 
legislation. Everyone says we are behind Europe, but the 
reality is that our innovation system functions because we are 
not passing the kind of overweening, over regulatory laws that 
the Europeans are doing. In their privacy laws, they made it 
harder to achieve noble and novel cybersecurity initiatives as 
well. So we have got to make sure we act--we act, you know, 
cognizant of the implications some of these laws might have.
    It is a problem that we have various States doing this. We 
are going to need Federal comprehensive legislation. The 
question is, what does it look like and what does it need to 
do, and what national security interests do we need to account 
for in that, including our ability to collect foreign 
intelligence in the United States, you know, an issue which is 
now before the House and the Senate, expiring here in April, 
critical legislation that we need to pass and get back into 
law.
    Ms. Gorman. Yeah, privacy is a core democratic value. It is 
the bedrock of freedom of expression and assembly. It is a 
travesty that we do not have Federal privacy legislation, and 
it exposes us to other data security risks with some of these 
Chinese ICTS platforms that are exacerbated by our lack of a 
baseline protection of individual data. I would also add in the 
AI conversation, there are technologies that are in development 
that would actually allow us to help preserve some of that 
privacy. I am talking about privacy-preserving AI, privacy-
enhancing technologies, where with AI, the issue is that the 
best AI models are trained on massive, massive amounts of data, 
and that is inherently, when it is personal data, a potential 
privacy violation. But there are technologies in development 
that would allow us to train these models without compromising 
the privacy of individual data, and I think we need robust 
investment in the advancement of those capabilities as well.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Senator Cortez. Senator Britt of 
Alabama is recognized.
    Senator Britt. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to all of 
our witnesses for being here today. Mr. Jaffer, as a former 
staffer to a former staffer, welcome.
    We continue to be reminded of the national security and 
economic implications of the Chinese Communist Party and the 
threat that they pose both to our country and to our future. 
Time and time again, the CCP has shown that they are not 
willing to play by the rules that govern international 
commerce. They have aided and abetted Iran, evading U.S. 
sanctions, and they are actively stealing U.S. technology and 
intellectual property across whole sectors of our economy, from 
artificial intelligence to computing to robotics to biology and 
beyond. In fact, the FBI's economic espionage caseload related 
to China has increased approximately 1,300 percent over the 
last decade. Today, on average, a China-related 
counterintelligence investigation is opened every 10 hours.
    The stakes could not be higher, and we must ask now to 
mitigate the ongoing economic harm happening to hardworking 
American families, Main Street small businesses, budding 
entrepreneurs, and critical industries. To that point, we must 
stop the CCP from buying U.S. land. Not only is this impacting 
the availability of fertile farmland for our agriculture 
community, but the CCP has deliberately compromised national 
security by purchasing land near our military installations. So 
I am proud to have joined Senator Tom Cotton in introducing the 
Not One More Inch or Acre Act, and I continue to urge my 
colleagues to join this effort.
    The U.S. has also--looking at existing tools that protect 
our national security and safeguarding technology innovation 
happening on college campuses and research and development labs 
and facilities across the Nation. We have taken a look and we 
are looking at what the CCP is trying to do to undermine those 
things. The Committee on Foreign Investment in the United 
States, in addition to export controls, classifications and 
security clearances and sanctions, all contribute to the 
firewall protecting American innovation, American IP, and 
American research from the Chinese Communist Party and other 
nefarious actors.
    Mr. Jaffer, I would like to ask you, where are the gaps in 
our current toolbox, and how do we ensure that U.S. security 
capabilities are able to keep up with evolving tactics by--and 
technologies that are being deployed by the Chinese Communist 
Party to steal our cutting-edge, our groundbreaking technology, 
the research and innovation that is happening here in the U.S.?
    Mr. Jaffer. Yeah. Well, Senator Britt, I think there are a 
few things we could do to help staunch the flow of U.S. 
intellectual property out the back door. One, we have got to 
deter effectively the Chinese. That means taking the fight to 
them, right? We have allowed the NSA and our--and our Cyber 
Command to get more aggressive and to lean forward to defend 
forward into adversary networks. More needs to be done there. 
We need broader authorities to allow our Government to push 
back more aggressively. We need to take the policy decisions to 
actually push back against Chinese depredation and the--and the 
efforts that other Nation-State actors, like the Iranians and 
Russians, are doing on our networks as well.
    Second, we also need to ensure that we have the policies 
and procedures in place that allow us to effectively push back 
economically against the Chinese. Today, we use tools like the 
SDN List, the Enemies List. These are not tools that are 
designed for the kind of economic depredation they engage in. 
We have either a sledgehammer on one side or a scalpel on the 
other. Neither works. We need a butcher knife that requires 
action by Congress to give the Administration more tools, and 
then the Administration needs to use those tools and use them 
effectively. Simply designating a group like the Houthis as 
especially designated global terrorists and not using the FTO 
designation is a mistake.
    Senator Britt. Could not agree more.
    Mr. Jaffer. Exactly. And so--and so we need to be more 
aggressive, and it is not just in capabilities and tools. We 
have to use them more aggressively. We have gotten too used to 
only using economic tools. They are not as effective as they 
could be. We need to get more aggressive on that front as well.
    Senator Britt. Listen, while we are talking, I know I only 
have less than a minute. I want to talk a little bit, 
transition a little bit into BRICS. When I am looking at what I 
am--I am seeing, obviously, we have had four more countries. We 
saw four more countries join earlier this month. Over 40 
countries have expressed interest in joining BRICS, and 22 of 
them have formally requested membership. I think this is 
startling and concerning, and I think, America, we need to wake 
up, and I think we need to demand that people withdraw from 
BRICS. And my question to you is, in your opinion, has the U.S. 
adequately examined the consequences and economic concerns and 
potential national security implications of BRICS, and what 
more do we need to be doing to push back on this?
    Mr. Jaffer. We have not done nearly enough, and the reality 
is that we are in something of a cold war today with China, 
right? We have to view the Chinese effort to consolidate its 
influence and authority over Nations in our own hemisphere, as 
well as in Africa and around the globe, as a strategic threat 
to our ability to continue to lead the world. And that comes 
from us being a strong adversary to our foes and a strong ally 
to our friends. Nobody trusts the United States today. They do 
not trust that we are going to be there.
    They saw what we did to our allies with the Kurds under the 
prior Administration. They saw what we did to our allies in 
Afghanistan under the current Administration. They have seen it 
over and over again. They see our adversaries punch at us, with 
Iran, with China, with Russia, and they see U.S. take those 
punches and do little to confront them. Until we demonstrate 
that we are prepared to lead and be a good ally to our friends 
and a real adversary to our foes, nobody is going to come 
alongside us, BRICS will continue to grow, China will continue 
to gain influence, and countries in our own hemisphere will 
switch their recognition from Taiwan to China. It has happened 
twice in the last 6 months.
    Senator Britt. Yep. It is a huge strategic threat.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Britt. So thank you so much. I appreciate it.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Senator Britt. Senator Warren from 
Massachusetts is recognized.
    Senator Warren. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Every time you log 
onto a website, Big Tech companies collect extremely detailed 
data about your spending habits, your physical location, your 
health status, your political beliefs, your religious beliefs, 
and more, and every 30 seconds, Big Tech companies auction off 
that data to the highest bidders here and around the world. 
Now, Americans' data are broadcast in this way 107 trillion 
times--that is trillion with a ``T''--every year. This does not 
just pose a risk to Americans' privacy. It also poses a risk to 
our national security. Reports have found that some buyers of 
our data build huge dossiers of extremely personal information 
about U.S. Government officials and military service members. 
They then turn around and sell that information to companies in 
China and Russia, where the Chinese and Russian Governments can 
access it without our even knowing anything about it.
    Ms. Kilcrease, you have spent years in Government service 
working on issues like data security policy. So when China or 
another foreign Government gets their hands on our data, what 
can they do with it?
    Ms. Kilcrease. Well, nothing good comes out of that 
situation, Senator Warren, so thank you for the question. There 
are a range of national security risks that can arise from the 
unfettered transfer of that sort of information on U.S. 
citizens. To take one example, there has certainly been public 
reporting about Fitbits on U.S. soldiers being used to enable 
the movement of our troops. That is a clear national security 
concern.
    Senator Warren. Uh-huh.
    Ms. Kilcrease. And when you think about the types of 
personal information that is available online and can be 
collected and sold, as you note, you can think about enabling 
blackmail. You can think about enabling cyber exploits. It is 
just a massive counterintelligence concern, essentially, when 
that level of information is for sale on the open market about 
individuals who are in these sensitive positions.
    Senator Warren. But Big Tech tells us that it is helping us 
when they sell or store your data however they want, wherever 
they want, because it will improve your online shopping 
experience, or they claim it will help keep your data safe. In 
reality, the only winners are foreign Governments and the tech 
companies themselves. Harvesting more of your data means you 
get more targeted ads, and Big Tech gets more revenue from 
those ads. And as part of the bargain, foreign Governments, our 
adversaries, get access to compromising information about U.S. 
military and Government personnel and their families.
    Now, Congress and the Biden administration have plans to 
address those risks, and Big Tech companies know this. That is 
why they are hijacking our trade agreements to slip in 
provisions that would prevent policymakers from limiting Big 
Tech's ability to transfer our data wherever they want. Now, 
the Big Tech lobby likes to say, do not worry, Congress could 
still act to protect Americans' data under certain exceptions, 
like, if there is a, ``legitimate policy or national security 
need.''
    Ms. Kilcrease, in theory, the exceptions that Big Tech 
companies want us to rely on would give policymakers some 
ability to override the data provisions that Big Tech slips 
into trade deals, but of the 48 times that countries have 
invoked a public policy exception at the World Trade 
Organization to protect their domestic policies, how many times 
has it actually worked?
    Ms. Kilcrease. You know, I think when those sorts of public 
policy exceptions are raised in the WTO context, not speaking 
for when the U.S. Government raises it because, presumably, we 
are always acting with legitimate public policy and national 
security interests in mind.
    Senator Warren. Uh-huh.
    Ms. Kilcrease. But I understand that the number is fairly 
limited in terms of the ability----
    Senator Warren. Do you happen to know the actual number?
    Ms. Kilcrease. I believe it may be two, ma'am.
    Senator Warren. Two. So twice out of 48 times this 
exception has actually been worked. Just 2 times. I got to say, 
I do not like our chances on using this exception, and the 
national security exception is no more reliable. Trade law 
tribunals have consistently ruled against the U.S.' use of this 
exception. Unaccountable trade tribunals should not decide who 
gets access to information about American soldiers and about 
our national security, and Big Tech companies cannot be allowed 
to co-op trade policy for their own benefit, especially when 
that means continuing to allow the Chinese and Russian 
Governments easy access to personal data about U.S. Government 
officials in our military, putting our national security at 
risk. American data policy should be decided by the American 
people through their representatives right here in Congress, 
not by trade tribunals, not by trade negotiators, and certainly 
not by Big Tech. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Brown. Senator Warner, thanks. Senator Reed of Rhode 
island is recognized.
    Senator Reed. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I thank 
the panel for being here. Ms. Kilcrease, unlike other financial 
institutions, private equity funds and hedge funds are exempt 
from requirements to maintain anti-money laundering programs, 
verify the identities of their customers, and report suspicious 
transactions. Are you concerned that this opacity of the 
private market presents a national security threat?
    Ms. Kilcrease. Absolutely, and thank you for that question. 
I think it has been recognized for quite some time, including 
dating back to at least 2015, that there is a potential 
loophole in our ability to enforce sanctions when it comes to 
these particular pools of money. And as we are increasingly 
imposing larger levels of sanctions, including the historically 
large and unprecedented waves of sanctions that we have imposed 
against Russia in response to its invasion of Ukraine, those 
sorts of bad actors, those sanctioned actors, they are going to 
look for end runs. They are going to look for legal ways to 
continue to access their money. So I do think it is critically 
important that we take a hard look at these sorts of evasion 
routes and these sorts of loopholes to make sure that when we 
impose these sorts of sanctions, they are really biting the way 
we want them to.
    Senator Reed. Well, and there is another aspect, too, and 
that is, particularly when it comes to China and Russia, the 
ability through these private arrangements to conduct 
espionage, to get access to technology or secrets or plans 
because they are part of the enterprise. Is that a concern of 
yours also?
    Ms. Kilcrease. You know, it certainly could be. If they are 
having access to these sorts of investment funds and the funds 
are then investing in U.S. critical technology companies, I 
mean, that is the exact reason why we have CFIUS, is to make 
sure that those sorts of financial transactions cannot be used 
to access sensitive information that would be contrary to U.S. 
National security interests. But what you are raising, of 
course, is a really critical question around whether we have 
visibility into these sorts of transactions and the right 
ability to enforce, and I do think that is an area where we 
need to continue to have a really strong focus to make sure we 
are shutting down all those sorts of loopholes.
    Senator Reed. Speaking of CFIUS, Ms. Gorman, when the last 
reauthorization came about, I included a provision that 
directed the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United 
States, CFIUS, to establish a process to assist partners and 
allies with foreign investment review, basically to collaborate 
with foreign agencies and look closely at what was going on. 
And last May, Assistant Secretary Paul Rosen described how 
CFIUS is working now with more than 20 other countries to pool 
their investigations. Should Congress provide a similar 
statutory mandate to coordinate export control authorities, 
resources, and information sharing with partners and allies?
    Ms. Gorman. Thank you, Senator, for that provision and your 
leadership on that issue, and it has been inordinately 
successful. In the European Union, we have gone from 11 Nations 
having inbound investment screening regimes before the 
provision to now 21 after, and more and more Nations are 
working to set up their own investment screening mechanisms. So 
I think that, yes, that type of provision where Congress 
provides the authorities, the resources, and the coordination 
mechanisms, and, crucially, that--those authorities to share 
some of that sensitive information with our close allies and 
partners would be the next step that is needed in our export 
control frameworks because these controls will shoot us--shoot 
ourselves in the own foot if they are not done multilaterally. 
We have heard from U.S. industry that they want multilateral 
controls, and they have the effect of not actually preventing 
the technologies from getting into the hands of the PRC. So the 
best thing we can do is fully resource, create these 
longstanding mechanisms of collaboration, and I think the 
FIRRMA is a great one to use.
    Senator Reed. Finally, Ms. Kilcrease, we were all very 
excited after being shocked by the Russian invasion of Crimea--
not Crimea, but Ukraine--when it appeared that our export 
controls and other sanctions were having a tremendous effect on 
the Russian economy, but it appears they have been very 
successful evading those controls, and their economy now is not 
the critical issue. It is weakened, but it is not the critical 
issue. What more must we do to make sure our sanctions are 
effective?
    Ms. Kilcrease. Yeah, it is such an important question. 
Thank you for that. A lot of it comes down to enforcement. We 
just need to pour more resources into making sure that the 
inevitable efforts to get around our sanctions and invade our 
sanctions, that we have got export control officers who are 
robustly looking out for that, but also, we need to be putting 
a lot of diplomatic pressure onto some of these third-party 
countries that are key sources of transshipment. The trade data 
consistently shows that there is just a massive amount of 
particularly Western components going through countries like 
Turkey, like the -Stans through China and getting into Russia 
and ultimately ending up on the battlefield. That is an 
unacceptable outcome. We really need to be putting pressure 
diplomatically on these countries to take action in their own 
jurisdictions to align with the U.S. sanctions approach, or, 
ultimately, we are going to have to take enforcement actions on 
many more companies in those countries to really crack down on 
this sort of evasion.
    Senator Reed. Thank you very much.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Senator Reed. Senator Van Hollen of 
Maryland is recognized.
    Senator Van Hollen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank all of 
you for your testimony. It is an important conversation, and, 
of course, the title of the hearing is, ``The Challenge of 
Outpacing China in Emerging Technologies''. And I would say, 
first and foremost, we have got to invest here at home in 
making sure that we remain at the cutting edge. The CHIPS and 
Science act was a big part of that. The chips part of that was 
funded. The science part was authorized and remains unfunded. 
It seems we have really got to invest in those areas, 
everything from AI to quantum computing to other areas. Second, 
I do want to mark in terms of protecting U.S. intellectual 
property, Ben Sasse, former senator, and I teamed up. We 
introduced and we passed legislation entitled, Protecting 
American Intellectual Property Act, which does give the 
executive branch more tools to help companies who are victims 
of intellectual property theft by China or anybody else.
    Third, I want to pick up on the conversation we just had 
with Senator Reed but also to say I do think the Biden 
administration has taken the right approach overall. They 
recognize that we are not going to decouple from economic 
engagement with China, but they also recognize that we have to 
de-risk, and we have to make sure that we de-risk critical 
supply chains, and that we have to work with our partners in 
preventing very high-end technologies that can be used for 
military purposes from getting to China. And as you know, we 
have done that in the area of some very sophisticated chips, 
manufacturing equipment with this trilateral agreement we 
reached with the Netherlands and Japan, and we need to build on 
that. As the Administration says, small garden but tall walls. 
We want to protect sort of our crown jewels and technology, and 
we want to--but to have the tall wall, and I want to pick up on 
the conversation on multilateralism and having cooperation of 
our friends and allies and other advanced economies in this--in 
this effort, and especially with respect to where we are going 
on AI right now because I believe we need--we need a 
multilateral approach. We need an export regime with our 
allies, similar to the CFIUS process, which has grown and 
developed.
    When it comes to AI, Ms. Gorman, as you know, the Europeans 
have moved forward with some regulations. Do you see that--the 
fact that the United States and the European Community are not 
right now on the same page or the same place as creating 
openings for China in terms of trying to set standards for AI 
or to advance their own interests in that area?
    Ms. Gorman. Thank you for the question. I think yes and no. 
I have heard conversations from folks in the community who are 
talking about how China is regulating AI better than the U.S. 
is. I think that is totally wrong. China has staked out a 
position on AI regulation, but it is in its own national 
security interests, promoting its own core socialist values. So 
I think we should strive toward transatlantic alignment on AI 
regulation and AI use. I do not think that means we are going 
to be doing the same thing.
    I like the innovation-forward approach that we have taken 
so far, making smart investments in responsible AI development 
use, privacy protecting technologies in AI, and then agreeing 
on some of the common guardrails and baselines. For example, 
using AI for social scoring and mass surveillance, that is a 
clear no. The U.S. and the EU have both said that. Let us build 
that into our approaches. I am also really worried about the 
threats of AI to our electoral processes when it comes to 
disinformation and deepfakes. I think there are issues that we 
can really agree on and put forward multilateral, democracy-
forward regulations on AI without having to be completely in 
lockstep with the EU.
    Senator Van Hollen. Yeah. No, I am not suggesting that we 
adopt what the EU has done, but I--it is another area where 
more coordination, it seems to me, could be helpful. In terms 
of protecting high-end chips technology, there has been this 
new sort of open-source RISC-V technology. I do not know if any 
of you are following this story closely, but it is an open 
source, and there is increased reporting that China is actually 
drawing upon some of this open-source technology for their own 
semiconductor development purposes. I do not know if any of you 
can comment on that because as we talk about trying to, you 
know, coordinate among our allies and friends, obviously, if 
there is a back door through open source, that could create 
issues. Ms. Gorman.
    Ms. Gorman. Yeah. I would just say that we have to be smart 
about which initiatives and which technologies we want to 
really try to open source. There was a movement in electronic 
design automation software some years ago to try to create 
open-source repositories for creating these kinds of designs, 
but when we actually looked at the competitive analysis 
landscape, it turns out the U.S. has massive advantages in 
concentration of market share in these EDA software 
technologies. So this is why our lack of an analytical 
capability continues to harm us--because we cannot assess the 
effects of should we build out a robust open-source ecosystem 
in something, or is it going to sacrifice some of the critical 
chokepoints or advantages that we have? And without that 
capacity, I think we are flying blind in a number of these 
areas that are central to our future AI competitiveness.
    Senator Van Hollen. I appreciate that, and I see time is 
out, so I am going to submit a question to all of you for the 
record about how we--the best tools for trying to get more 
multilateral cooperation because, of course, the one tool we 
always have is secondary sanctions, but that is a very blunt 
instrument. So I am going to pose a question to all of you 
about how you--how you balance that, when you would use that 
particular tool.
    Thank you.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Senator Van Hollen. Senator Smith 
is recognized from her office.
    Senator Smith. Thank you, Chair Brown. Thank you so much to 
our panelists, and I am glad to be joining you from my office 
if not in person. So, Ms. Kilcrease, my question is going to be 
directed to you this morning.
    China's military civil fusion strategy, I think, creates 
some unique obstacles for how to craft and enforce export 
controls for these dual-use technologies because it is 
difficult to figure out the technologies intended end uses and 
end users, and, of course, the rapid pace of innovation and 
technology only makes this harder. So we need robust controls, 
export controls that is critical to our national security so 
that U.S. technologies do not go to unintentionally supporting 
China's military modernization and intelligence collection 
efforts. So could you give us your perspective on this? What 
challenges does China's military civil fusion strategy pose for 
our export control, and what more should we be doing to address 
this challenge?
    Ms. Kilcrease. Thank you for that question. You know, 
historically, our export controls try to make distinctions 
between technology exports that would be for civilian purposes 
and those that would be used for military purposes. I think we 
are increasingly realizing that you cannot make those sorts of 
clear distinctions, and you cannot enforce those distinctions 
when it comes to the Chinese economy based on the structure of 
their economy and their clearly stated military civil fusion 
policies. And so what you have seen in recent years, most 
notably in the October 7 export controls in 2022 released by 
the Biden administration, was a response to that, where instead 
of trying to make these sorts of distinctions, we instead drew 
a line in the sand, and we said technology that exceeds these 
technical thresholds is a de facto national security risk if it 
goes to China, regardless of whether the stated intent is for 
military purposes or for civilian purposes because we just 
cannot tell the difference anymore.
    And I think that is generally the direction of travel that 
we need to consider when it comes to technology exports to 
China. We should not rely on an ability to have full visibility 
into and be able to enforce in that very difficult context 
within the China market. I think that certainly applies for the 
export control conversation. It certainly applies when we are 
talking about the investment security tools as well. We just 
have to be very clear-eyed that we are going to have to take 
these countrywide approaches to imposing controls on these 
technologies that have such clear relevance for our national 
security interests.
    Senator Smith. And do you think that step is sufficient, or 
is there more--what more should we be looking at?
    Ms. Kilcrease. I think it is a good start, but that 
countrywide approach, really, it is limited right now to the 
controls that we implemented with respect to chips AI in 
supercomputing. There is a lot more that we can do. There are 
many more sectors where we should be looking at whether the 
Control Lists are fully adopting that sort of countrywide 
approach in some of the sectors that China itself has 
identified as a priority for them to develop and dominate in 
the global marketplace moving forward. So we really need to 
invest and have a keen focus on that continual process of 
updating the Control Lists, particularly in emerging technology 
areas, to make sure that they are not stuck in the cold war era 
but are really keeping peace today.
    And then, consistent with the themes we have all been 
talking about, do we have the analytic capability to understand 
as we roll out these new and innovative sorts of controls, are 
they working? Are they slowing Chinese indigenous capabilities 
in the way that we want them to?
    Senator Smith. Mm-hmm, and thank you for that, and 
following up on that, and also I think a bit on what Senator 
Van Hollen was asking about, in addition to sort of taking this 
approach with our export controls, what more should we be doing 
to encourage our allies around the world to sort of operate in 
the same way? I mean, if we, for example, bar a U.S. firm from 
exporting technology to China, but they can--you know, they can 
get the same thing from somebody else, we have not accomplished 
that much.
    Ms. Kilcrease. Exactly. It absolutely needs to be a 
multilateral approach, and there is a lot more the U.S. could 
be doing. We currently coordinate controls with key partners 
under the multilateral export control regime process, but there 
are some serious questions about whether that is sufficient or 
fit for purpose. We need to be thinking about how to enhance 
strategic alignment with our allies, who we do not always agree 
with, on how to address the China threat, so that is priority 
number one. Have we convinced them and have we provided the 
analytic and intelligence argument to our allies to convince 
them that they also need to be taking this sort of countrywide, 
broad approach to controls?
    And then from there, we need to be going to our partners 
and allies on a regular basis with a focus on the key producer 
Nations in these key technology areas and saying, this is what 
the U.S. thinks we ought to control. Will you come with us? 
Ultimately, I think ideally what we would like to see is a new 
export control regime that really allows for a focus on 
strategic trade controls and the strategic competition with 
China. There is a lot of skepticism in our key partner 
countries right now on that idea, so we also need to be 
thinking about interim steps that we can take to strengthen 
alignment, but, ultimately, that goal should be a new 
formalized regime process that really allows us to do this in 
lockstep with partners and allies on a regular basis.
    Senator Smith. That is great. OK. Thank you so much, Mr. 
Chair.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Senator Smith. Senator Warnock of 
Georgia is recognized.
    Senator Warnock. Thank you so much, Chair Brown, for this 
important hearing on our national security and outpacing China.
    Last year, the Congress passed the CHIPS and Science Act. 
It is a piece of legislation I was glad to support and 
champion. It spurs research in several critical technologies, 
including quantum computing, AI, cyber infrastructure, and more 
in our effort to make sure that we remain competitive with 
China and, in fact, have the competitive edge. Georgia, I am 
very proud to say, has been leading the country in our efforts 
to stay globally competitive, using research and development 
funding from the CHIPS and Science Act to pursue cutting-edge 
research in healthcare, agriculture, cybersecurity, and beyond.
    Chips are in everything, and for the fiscal year 2024, in 
spite of our passing this legislation in which the Chips and 
Science Act authorizes over $26 billion in domestic research 
investments, and one could make an argument that we should have 
done more. In fact, the draft appropriations bills only include 
about three-quarters of that amount. So there is a disconnect 
between the seriousness of this issue, the importance of us 
passing that legislation, and where we are right now in terms 
of appropriations.
    Ms. Gorman, as China continues to significantly expand its 
investments in research and development, do you agree that 
supporting domestic research is a matter of national security?
    Ms. Gorman. I do, 100 percent, and I think it is one of the 
top priorities that we should have. The CHIPS and Science Act, 
which was a historic, bipartisan win, reversed decades of 
underfunding in our research and development enterprises that 
have put the United States atop the world, a global leader in 
many of these exact areas you are talking about: AI, quantum 
information. We cannot risk having those advantages fall by the 
wayside, especially when the PRC is moving ahead and trying to 
become the global leader and outrun us.
    These investments are critical, and it should not just be a 
one-time deal. We have called for a process whereby every year, 
every 2 years, maybe every 4 years, we reevaluate what are the 
key technology areas we need to win in the competition, are we 
resourced for it, and how do we leverage the whole of the 
American population, all regions, through innovation hubs and 
tech hubs, toward those goals? This is, I think, almost no 
higher priority.
    Senator Warnock. Well, I agree, and the tech hubs is an 
important provision in that legislation that I have certainly 
supported. But we hear this argument, or this differentiation 
between defense and non-defense in terms of appropriations, and 
if I am hearing you correctly, you would--you would agree that 
investments in agencies, like the National Science Foundation 
and the Department of Energy, are critical to our national 
security, and that the distinction is worse than an academic 
distinction. It is terribly unhelpful.
    Ms. Gorman. Completely. They are--they are critical to our 
future competitiveness, which is at the heart of the strategic 
competition, which is a national security competition with the 
PRC. We can no longer think only in terms of hard power, 
especially when the PRC is playing on so many other playing 
fields. They are weaponizing their economy to coerce businesses 
to give them technology. They are coercing individuals to 
silence them on critical issues that the PRC does not want to 
hear about. This is a full society competition, and so limiting 
ourselves only to this traditional notion of military hard 
power misses a huge swath of the competition space.
    Senator Warnock. Sure. They do not respect these silos in 
terms of appropriations. Now, in addition to this, it seems to 
me that we also need researchers and students from all across 
the country to bring these scientific innovations to life. We 
need all of our brain power, and that is why I authored a 
provision in CHIPS and Science to increase research capacity at 
HBCUs--historically black colleges and universities--and also 
minority-serving institutions. Supporting these institutions is 
not simply about equity and diversity. It, too, I would argue, 
is about national security. If we are going to effectively 
compete with China, we must find and nurture the finest minds 
in our country, and as a proud HBCU graduate, I think I know 
where you can find some of those incredible young people and 
talent.
    Ms. Gorman, what else can Congress do to ensure we are 
identifying and supporting talent, whether that talent comes 
from Georgia Tech, Savannah State, or Spelman College?
    Ms. Gorman. I completely agree. We need--this is--this is a 
tough competition. We need the best and the brightest from 
everywhere across the country. I think what we--Congress can do 
going forward is replicate some of the initiatives that were in 
the CHIPS and Science Act for other critical technology areas, 
creating these types of innovation hubs, creating a focus on 
HBCUs. I saw the Air Force has also partnered with HBCUs in 
technology development and achievement initiatives like that 
across these other emerging technology areas, not just the 
chips manufacturing, which is incredibly important: 
biomanufacturing, quantum information, agriculture, clean 
energy technologies. There is so much more we can do, and all 
our communities are affected, and so we need all of our minds 
working on the problem.
    Senator Warnock. Thank you so much. We certainly need to 
strengthen the pipeline, tap into all of the brain power that 
we have, and I appreciate your perspective.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Senator Warnock. Senator Fetterman 
from Pennsylvania is recognized.
    Senator Fetterman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, 
Senator. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Hi. Thank you. It is great to 
always talk about the experts, and my first question is to 
anyone on the panel.
    You know, everyone recognizes the danger of IP theft, and 
China has a well-known history of stealing our intellectual 
property. Do we agree? Almost, you know, the one copy kind of 
county. We need to block China from stealing or using our IP to 
develop and weaponize artificial intelligence. Can anyone on 
the panel describe the gaps that allow China to steal IP, and 
how can we cover those gaps?
    Mr. Jaffer. Sure. Senator Fetterman, a couple of thoughts. 
One, you know, the Chinese have engaged in a decades-long 
effort to steal intellectual property out of American computer 
systems and the like, millions of dollars a year, billions of 
dollars in total. General Alexander, the former director of the 
NSA, called it the greatest transfer of wealth in human 
history, so we have got to push back. We have got to deter, 
both at a Government level and an industry level.
    Today, private industry is not capable of defending itself. 
It simply does not have the capacity or knowledge and know-how 
that the Government has, so we have got to partner tightly 
between industry and Government. And then second, we have got 
to really incentivize our cybersecurity defenders and our 
companies to really protect their own intellectual property. 
They have every incentive today. We can--we can put more money 
and more effort into that by giving them tax incentives and the 
like to better defend their systems.
    Senator Fetterman. Anyone else on that?
    Ms. Gorman. Yeah. I would--I would just add to that that 
the problem also exists in terms of forced technology 
transfers. The allure of the Chinese market remains a 
compelling factor for companies who want to do business and 
sell their products in China. Oftentimes it means they are 
forced to partner with Chinese firms that have an explicit goal 
of buying them out of the market, taking their technology, and 
eventually replacing them. I think the short-term capitalism 
that drives our system is a strategic vulnerability here. We 
are not necessarily looking to our long-term competitiveness 
when we are so focused on quarterly earnings and quarterly 
turnovers.
    Senator Fetterman. I mean, well, this is a hearing, you 
know, really the title is national security and our challenges 
in emerging technology. Would you agree with that, that AI 
would be the single largest, the biggest one, threat or no, or 
what do you think? Anyone.
    Ms. Kilcrease. You know, I think we need to have a holistic 
approach when we are thinking about the technology competition 
with China simply because they are as well, right? They are 
trying to prioritize investments and leadership and domination 
in a range of sectors. AI, of course, is a really important 
one. I am just as worried, candidly, about growing market share 
of China in legacy chip production. That raises a whole host of 
additional national security risks that we have not even 
scratched the surface on in terms of appropriate policy 
responses. So I do think we risk--if we overly focus in one 
area, we are going to have a blind spot in other areas. So it 
needs to be biotech, AI, quantum, chips, a whole host of other 
technologies where China is really making those investments, 
and we need to as well.
    Senator Fetterman. I like that. Any others? I really like 
this--where this is going. Any other----
    Ms. Gorman. Yeah. I would add it is not only the AI threats 
that were, I think--that are in the popular zeitgeist of these 
kind of doomsday scenarios and those AI risks. But I would like 
to see us focus more on, how is China applying AI to all these 
sectors that they have said that they want to lead in? Those 
are where we are going to see, I think, the biggest 
applications of artificial intelligence and the biggest 
industry and societal advancements. And China is very, very 
good at taking a technology developed elsewhere and 
commercializing it and applying it extremely well, and I worry 
that even though the U.S. has an edge on these frontier models, 
large language models, once they hit the Chinese market, that 
they may be able to apply them better than we can. So that is 
what I would be--one of the things on AI that I am quite 
worried about.
    Mr. Jaffer. I also worry, Senator Fetterman, that we not 
overregulate the space, right? If we want to maintain the 
innovation here in the United States and want to ensure that we 
continue to lead on frontier models, putting limitations on how 
those can be utilized and how they might be employed are going 
to be problematic for further investment and further 
development of those models. So the right way to approach it, I 
think, is to encourage and advocate within our industry to 
ensure that there is trust, safety, and security baked into our 
models, that we are auditing them, that we are thinking about 
how they are being utilized, that we are deploying them and 
testing them before we put them out in the world.
    At the same time, artificially limiting them by, you know, 
measuring how many--how many--how much computing power they use 
or how many--how many elements they process, I think, could be 
a mistake and allow China to get the edge. We do not want to 
allow that to happen. We want to make sure that investment and 
that capability stays here in the United States. And then we 
also need to be cognizant of how much data China is acquiring 
and how they use that data to empower their ability to repress 
their own people and to act against the United States.
    So when we look at capabilities like TikTok, people say, 
why worry about cat videos? Exactly. It is not just cat videos. 
It is data about average Americans. The idea that TikTok buys 
ads at DCA and is convincing Americans and American legislators 
through those ads is outrageous. The Metropolitan Washington 
Airport Authority ought to be embarrassed that they are--that 
they are having ads at Union Station and at DCA for TikTok, a 
Chinese Government influenced--media influence operation.
    Senator Fetterman. I wish I had an hour because you guys 
all touched on really critical kinds of issues and where this 
can go or what is possible, but I know we have--unfortunately, 
we have lost our time, but back to you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Fetterman. And thank you for the experts.
    Chair Brown. Senator Fetterman, thank you. I know you 
almost always go last, but thank you for always your thoughtful 
questions and response. Thank you to the three witnesses, a 
really, really good hearing, and thank you so much for that.
    For senators who wish to submit questions for the record, 
those questions are due 1 week from today, January 25, please. 
To the witnesses, you have 45 days, if you would, to respond to 
those questions. Thank you again. With that, the hearing is 
adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:05 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
    [Prepared statements and responses to written questions 
supplied for the record follow:]
               PREPARED STATEMENT OF CHAIR SHERROD BROWN
    Last week, this Committee heard about the human toll that illicit 
fentanyl takes on our families, our friends, our neighbors.
    The witnesses stressed the need to come together and taking action 
to stop the flow of illicit fentanyl from China and Mexico.
    This Committee and the entire Senate did just that last year when 
we included the FEND Off Fentanyl Act in the annual defense 
authorization bill. But this hasn't become law yet, because of 
politicians in the House playing politics.
    The FEND Off Fentanyl Act was not the only Committee priority that 
the House blocked last year.
    They also blocked two other important national security amendments 
in the Senate NDAA--both of which received 91 votes in the Senate.
    Ninety-one senators voted in favor of an amendment offered by our 
colleagues Senators Tester and Rounds to prevent big investors in China 
from buying up American farmland and food businesses. We can't allow 
foreign adversaries to buy up farmland in Ohio and around the country. 
It's a threat to our national security, and it's a threat to rural 
economies and our way of life.
    Ninety-one senators also voted in favor of an amendment offered by 
Senators Casey and Cornyn to allow us to better monitor U.S. companies' 
investments that fund Chinese development of critical technology, 
including military technology.
    All three of these provisions have broad support--from Heritage 
Action to the Coalition for a Prosperous America.
    And more importantly, they have the support of the public. For far 
too long, our policy around China catered to multinational 
corporations, and failed States like Ohio. On this Committee we are 
working to change that, and we have found common ground. It's why all 
three of these bills remain top priorities of this Committee.
    I am committed to working with my colleagues to find a path forward 
so that each of these provisions becomes law this year.
    Of course the threats posed by China are many, and varied, and 
growing. Our work to address national security risks posed by the 
Chinese Government cannot and will not end with those three provisions.
    We all agree that China poses a real and growing threat to our 
national security.
    Perhaps nowhere is that risk more acute than with the development 
of advanced technology.
    China has used advanced technology--much of it stolen from the 
U.S., some of it sent there through corporate outsourcing--to ramp up 
its military modernization and build a mass surveillance State that 
commits deplorable human rights violations, including the detention of 
millions of Uighurs in Xinjiang.
    Addressing these threats from the Chinese Government, and improving 
our domestic capability to compete with China, have been a top priority 
of this Committee.
    Five years ago, we updated the laws that govern our export control 
and inbound investment screening programs.
    Now we must assess whether our current authorities--and the 
resources we commit to them--match the threat we face.
    Export controls can be used to deny China and others access to U.S. 
technology that they could use against our national security and 
foreign policy interests.
    This Administration has made export controls a central feature of 
our national security policy.
    In addition to assembling a global export control coalition in 
response to Russia's war against Ukraine, this Administration has added 
hundreds of China-based entities to restricted trade lists. It imposed 
countrywide controls that restrict China's access to advanced 
semiconductors and tools and equipment needed to produce them. And it 
ramped up enforcement efforts to safeguard our most sensitive 
technologies.
    But, as Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo noted in December, the 
export control budget of the Bureau of Industry and Security is roughly 
the same as it was a decade ago, despite its increasing workload.
    If we agree that export controls are critical to our national 
security, and I think we do, then that isn't good enough.
    We need a China policy for the world we live in today, and we must 
prepare for what could come tomorrow.
    That means we must upgrade our economic security authorities and 
resources, accelerate efforts to persuade other countries to join us, 
and enhance our analytical capabilities, so that we can better 
understand the effects that our economic security tools have on China, 
on U.S. companies, and on companies in partner countries.
    Today we will discuss how we should rethink and reorient how 
economic security programs are implemented to address the full range of 
risks posed by China.
    And we will examine how we can strengthen these authorities and 
resources to build a stronger, more responsive economic security 
policy.
    Our country's policies regarding China have failed for too long. 
They've been written to increase the profits of multinational 
corporations looking for cheap labor--not to benefit our national 
security, and not to benefit American workers.
    And we know that when companies outsource jobs, they outsource 
innovation and technological capabilities along with them. We cannot 
allow China to continue to use that technology--in many cases, steal 
it--to enhance its military capabilities.
    We all agree that China is a real, growing threat.
    Countering that threat, and updating the failed policies of the 
past, will continue to be a bipartisan focus of this Committee.
                                 ______
                                 
                PREPARED STATEMENT OF SENATOR TIM SCOTT
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning to the witnesses, thank you 
for being here as well. Thank you Mr. Chairman for this opportunity to 
talk about such an important topic.
    But before turning to this hearing, I'd like to take a moment and 
draw attention to the recent Iran-backed strikes in Iraq.
    Any time American lives are put at risk, whether it's from Iran or 
their terror proxies like Hamas, we need to have a strong response. And 
that starts with this chamber passing my Revoke Iranian Funding Act.
    Every dollar that goes to Iran from this Administration's actions, 
is a dollar that supports terror. Thank you.
    America is the land of opportunity and freedom, the opportunity to 
innovate, produce, and execute on individual ideas.
    These principles are what drives our strides in technological 
innovation, and our emphasis on entrepreneurship.
    We have the strongest economy in the world, driven by its dynamic 
growth and evolution. We are the global gold standard that countries 
look on with envy.
    However, American exceptionalism is under attack from a country 
that doesn't want to play by the rules--that country is obviously 
China.
    To make sure our success does not become the victory of others, the 
United States Government must act strategically and with strength, in 
protecting opportunities for growth at home and abroad.
    When we look at adversaries like the Chinese Communist Party with 
their centrally planned economy that actively works to distort global 
markets for its own gain and continuously makes overt attempts to oust 
us from our perch of leadership.
    We don't' have to ask the question--are they playing by the rules?
    Because we already know the answer to the question, and the answer 
is emphatically no.
    But China's approach--with their controlled markets, Government 
interventions, and intellectual property theft--is shackled to the 
openness of others.
    So, we must act strategically to ensure that we are safeguarding 
America's treasure--our ability to innovate.
    We cannot let China continue its malign activities, especially in 
regards to using, or even stealing, American innovation and American 
technologies for nefarious purposes, like advancing its rapidly growing 
military.
    So, as we consider American security and prosperity from the 
Banking Committee's jurisdiction, we should look first at our economic 
security tools.
    We need to examine the authorities provided to the executive 
branch, how they have been used, and how they can be improved for 
maximize effectiveness.
    However, an over-application of these tools has the potential to 
push our adversaries closer together and damage the U.S. and our 
industries' long-term abilities to innovate and generate jobs and to 
generate growth.
    Therefore, our use of these tools must be sharp but tailored.
    Thankfully, we can isolate bad actors through our sanctions 
policies, we can restrict malign investment through our CFIUS process, 
and we can curtail the export of critical goods and services to our 
enemies.
    These actions are stronger when we work together with our allies 
and stay focused on the true problem at hand.
    But unfortunately, this Administration is yet again, taking the 
wrong approach.
    This Administration has put politics over policy, and in some ways, 
that is playing right into the hands of China.
    For example, the Department of Commerce's Bureau of Industry and 
Security, the steward of our export controls, is currently engaging in 
politically motivated attacks against the legal firearms industry.
    A troubling trend by this Administration's regulators to try to 
target lawful businesses through the regulatory process that don't fit 
their political narrative.
    This undercuts the Commerce Department's important mission of 
safeguarding U.S. technology, opening the door for distractions that 
will allow the CCP to take advantage.
    But Commerce isn't the only perpetrator.
    The Department of Treasury's primary focus appears to be on 
pursuing the limits of climate and green energy financing policy.
    And frankly, these objectives only advance China's solar and 
critical mineral energy positions in geopolitical affairs.
    Treasury's time, attention, and taxpayer-provided resources would 
be much better spent working to ensure our sanctions policies on China 
remain up to date and promoting as well as protecting American industry 
abroad.
    We need an Administration that is focused on countering the real 
threat--China--not one that is more interesting to politics.
    So, while I am grateful that we have such an esteemed panel before 
us today, I think it is imperative we hear directly from the 
Administration as well.
    That said, I look forward to hearing from each of you, and your 
expertise on the issues that will help strengthen our economy, and 
strengthen our position against China.
    And, importantly, to learning more from their perspectives on how 
we should act and respond to the threat.


                 PREPARED STATEMENT OF EMILY KILCREASE
   Senior Fellow and Director of the Energy, Economics, and Security 
              Program, Center for a New American Security
                            January 18, 2024
                            
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


                 PREPARED STATEMENT OF JAMIL N. JAFFER
  Founder and Executive Director, National Security Institute and NSI 
   Cyber and Tech Center, Antonin Scalia Law School at George Mason 
                               University
                            January 18, 2024
                            
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


                  PREPARED STATEMENT OF LINDSAY GORMAN
  Senior Fellow for Emerging Technologies, The Alliance for Securing 
       Democracy at the German Marshall Fund of the United States
                            January 18, 2024
                            
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

         RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF CHAIR BROWN
                      FROM EMILY KILCREASE

Q.1. Establishing U.S. supply chains for solar and other 
technologies is essential for American energy security. For 
instance, Chinese-headquartered companies now make up 99 
percent of the world's solar wafer and 80 percent of the 
world's polysilicon production--two core components that make 
up half the value of the solar panel.
    What recommendations do you have to make sure the U.S. is 
taking a whole-of-Government approach to securing clean energy 
supply chains, like solar? How can and should the U.S. 
Government support domestic manufacturing growth to meet our 
energy security and clean energy goals?

A.1. As \1\ the U.S. Government takes action to address climate 
change, it must do so in a way that strengthens U.S. energy 
security and the resiliency of U.S. energy supply chains. The 
urgent need to address climate change must be balanced with the 
risk of creating a new dependency on China, which is the 
dominant global producer of clean energy technologies. An 
effective U.S. clean energy strategy will spur U.S. clean 
energy innovation and manufacturing, while addressing the 
economic, national security, and human rights concerns 
associated with imports of Chinese clean energy products. The 
United States should:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \1\ These responses reflect the personal views of the author 
alone. As a research and policy institution committed to the highest 
standards of organizational, intellectual, and personal integrity, the 
Center for a New American Security (CNAS) maintains strict intellectual 
independence and sole editorial direction and control over its ideas, 
projects, publications, events, and other research activities. CNAS 
does not take institutional positions on policy issues and the content 
of CNAS publications reflects the views of their authors alone. In 
keeping with its mission and values, CNAS does not engage in lobbying 
activity and complies fully with all applicable Federal, State, and 
local laws. CNAS will not engage in any representational activities or 
advocacy on behalf of any entities or interests and, to the extent that 
the Center accepts funding from non-U.S. sources, its activities will 
be limited to bona fide scholastic, academic, and research-related 
activities, consistent with applicable Federal law. The Center publicly 
acknowledges on its website annually all donors who contribute.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Invest in innovation and capacity throughout the clean 
energy technology life cycle: The United States has 
historically had a good track record in funding early-stage 
research and development in clean energy technologies, as well 
as using regulatory or other incentives to increase demand for 
clean energy products. \2\ The United States has been less 
successful in strengthening domestic manufacturing capacity, 
leading to a perverse consequence in which U.S. demand for 
clean energy technologies (including demand that is supported 
by U.S. Government policies) can create a surge in imports, 
notably from China. \3\ The Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) 
provides an effective response to this challenge, by creating a 
sustainable foundation for cost-competitive manufacturing of 
critical clean energy technologies domestically. The U.S. 
Government should support strong implementation of the IRA's 
clean energy provisions, while also investing in the skilled 
workforce needed to build a durable clean energy manufacturing 
base in the United States.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \2\ Jonas Nahm, ``Reimagine: Clean Energy Technology and U.S. 
Industrial Policy'' (Washington, DC: Center for a New American 
Security, September 7, 2022), https://s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/
files.cnas.org/documents/CNAS-Report-Reimagine-Clean-Energy-Tech-final-
v2.pdf.
     \3\ Nahm, ``Reimagine: Clean Energy Technology and U.S. Industrial 
Policy''.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Establish innovative financing mechanisms: In addition to 
the incentives provided by the IRA, the U.S. Government should 
create additional innovative financing mechanisms to support 
clean energy production domestically, such as the Industrial 
Finance Corporation of the United States (IFCUS). The IFCUS, or 
similar entity, would be a Government-owned corporation, 
governed by an independent board, that would provide debt and 
equity financing to U.S. clean energy companies to support 
domestic manufacturing. Such an entity could focus on 
technologies that are critical to future U.S. energy security 
but that private markets are not incentivized to support. In 
contrast to the IRA, which is built on tax incentives, an IFCUS 
mechanism could ultimately return money to the U.S. Treasury as 
its investments generate a return. \4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \4\ Emily Kilcrease and Emily Jin, ``Rebuild: Toolkit for a New 
American Industrial Policy'', (Washington, DC: Center for a New 
American Security, September 2022), https://s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/
files.cnas.org/documents/Rebuild-OCEA-2022-Final.pdf; Nahm, 
``Reimagine: Clean Energy Technology and U.S. Industrial Policy''.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Build alternative sources of critical minerals supply with 
close partners: Critical minerals are essential to clean energy 
supply chains, and the United States does not currently have 
reliable, diversified supply of these minerals. According to 
the U.S. Department of Energy, over 80 percent of U.S. critical 
minerals supply comes from foreign sources. \5\ Where possible, 
the United States should invest in the responsible extraction 
and processing of critical minerals domestically, including 
through the use of Defense Production Act authorities. \6\ 
However, recognizing that domestic supply is unlikely to fully 
meet domestic needs, the United States must also work with 
international partners to bolster supply that can meet their 
collective needs. Congress should support initiatives such as 
the Minerals Security Partnership, in which the United States 
works with close partners (Australia, Canada, Finland, France, 
Germany, Japan, the Republic of Korea, Sweden, the United 
Kingdom, and the European Union) to coordinate efforts to 
strengthen critical mineral supply chains. \7\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \5\ ``Developing a Domestic Supply of Critical Minerals and 
Materials'', U.S. Department of Energy, Office of Fossil Energy and 
Carbon Management, February 6, 2024, https://www.energy.gov/fecm/
articles/developing-domestic-supply-critical-minerals-and-materials#.
     \6\ Joshua Busby, Emily Holland, Morgan Bazilian, and Paul Orszag, 
``The Defense Production Act's Role in the Clean Energy Transition'', 
Lawfare, July 17, 2023, https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/the-
defense-production-act-s-role-in-the-clean-energy.
     \7\ ``Minerals Security Partnership'', U.S. Department of State, 
accessed March 11, 2024, https://www.state.gov/minerals-security-
partnership/.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Adopt a risk-based approach to deployment of Chinese clean 
energy technologies in the United States: Given China's 
dominant role in global clean energy supply chains, the United 
States cannot entirely avoid the use of Chinese technologies if 
it wants to make progress on climate objectives. At the same 
time, not all deployments of Chinese technologies present 
similar risks. U.S. policies should restrict the deployment of 
Chinese technologies in applications that would involve direct 
interconnection with the U.S. grid or otherwise present 
unacceptable risks to the cybersecurity of U.S. critical 
infrastructure. In less sensitive applications, the United 
States must maintain a diverse source of supply, either through 
increased domestic production or through friendshoring 
policies, to avoid creating a dependency on China that would 
present energy security and national security risks.
                                ------                                


               RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF
           SENATOR CORTEZ MASTO FROM EMILY KILCREASE

Q.1. In your opinion, how effective are the current dual-use 
export controls and foreign investment screening mechanisms in 
addressing the possibility of U.S. innovation enhancing PLA 
capabilities?

A.1. The U.S. system for screening foreign investment in the 
United States, as implemented by the Committee on Foreign 
Investment in the United States (CFIUS), is largely effective 
in mitigating the risk that U.S. innovation, transferred via an 
investment, can enhance PLA capabilities. As one indicator, 
Chinese foreign direct investment (FDI) in the United States 
has plummeted in recent years, and unlike FDI from other 
countries, has not rebounded from pandemic-era lows. \1\ CFIUS 
must remain vigilant to ensure the efficacy of its work, and 
certain updates (noted in the answer to the next question) can 
support its efforts to remain ahead of evolving threat 
environments.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \1\ Bureau of Economic Analysis International Economic Accounts 
Factsheets, (International Trade and Investment Country Facts--China; 
accessed September 10, 2023), https://apps.bea.gov/international/
factsheet/factsheet.html#650.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The U.S. Government is using dual-use export controls to 
address an increasing array of national security and foreign 
policy concerns. While dual-use export controls were previously 
a more limited mechanism to prevent destabilizing accumulations 
of conventional weapons, they are now being used as a leading 
tool to manage the strategic competition with China, degrade 
Russian military capabilities, and address human rights abuses, 
among other issues. While export controls can be used 
effectively in this broader context, doing so requires a 
significant investment in Government capacity.
    The budget for the Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS), 
the lead agency for administering dual-use export controls, has 
remained flat in real terms for over a decade. Congress should 
increase funding, with a focus on building analytic 
capabilities within BIS, establishing an office charged with 
evaluating the effectiveness of dual-use export controls, 
strengthening international outreach, and bolstering 
enforcement. Additional details are provided in my written 
testimony. \2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \2\ ``U.S. Economic Security Strategy, Authorities, and 
Bureaucratic Capacity'': Hearing Before the U.S. Senate Committee on 
Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, 118th Cong. (2024) (statement of 
Emily Kilcrease, Senior Fellow and Director, Energy, Economics, and 
Security Program, CNAS), https://www.banking.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/
kilcrease-testimony-1-18-24.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    It is worth emphasizing the importance of international 
coordination in enhancing the effectiveness of U.S. dual-use 
export controls. The effectiveness of unilateral controls 
erodes over time, as firms from other countries backfill U.S. 
technology. Most worrisome, over time U.S. technology may be 
designed out of international supply chains, harming long-term 
U.S. technology competitiveness. \3\ In addition to considering 
new multilateral regimes (as noted in the answer to a separate 
question from Senator Van Hollen), the United States must have 
robust international outreach functions to coordinate policies 
with key partners and provide technical assistance and 
intelligence support. While U.S. efforts to coordinate with 
Dutch and Japanese counterparts on recent controls on 
semiconductor manufacturing equipment is encouraging, much more 
regular and far-reaching coordination is needed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \3\ Sarah Bauerle Danzman and Emily Kilcrease, ``The Illusion of 
Controls: Unilateral Attempts To Contain China's Technology Ambitions 
Will Fail'', Foreign Affairs, December 30, 2022, https://
www.foreignaffairs.com/united-states/illusion-controls.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Finally, dual-use export controls can be made more 
effective by establishing a set of complementary controls on 
outbound U.S. investment in China. Certain U.S. investments may 
advance indigenous Chinese capabilities in sensitive 
technologies and erode the effectiveness of export controls. 
Congress can act to address this risk by passing legislation to 
establish a targeted set of outbound investment controls 
designed to work in tandem with dual-use export controls to 
protect U.S. innovation and technology leadership in national 
security technologies. \4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \4\ ``Principles and Policy Options for Designing Better 
Investment Barriers'': Hearing Before the U.S. House of Representatives 
Subcommittee on National Security, Illicit Finance, and International 
Financial Institutions of the Committee on Financial Services, 118th 
Cong. (2024), (statement of Emily Kilcrease, Senior Fellow and 
Director, Energy, Economics, and Security Program, CNAS), https://
docs.house.gov/meetings/BA/BA10/20240130/116767/HHRG-118-BA10-Wstate-
KilcreaseE-20240130.pdf.

Q.2. Given your role in drafting CFIUS reform regulations, can 
you elaborate on any specific improvements or gaps in the 
current foreign investment screening process, especially 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
concerning critical technology and sensitive personal data?

A.2. CFIUS would benefit from an expanded definition of 
``critical technology.'' Currently, critical technology is 
defined by reference to export control authorities and CFIUS 
does not have the authority to define its own lists of critical 
technology. This approach generally makes sense, as it promotes 
coherence between the two sets of authorities and leverages the 
technical expertise resident in the export control agencies. 
However, in certain instances, CFIUS has a national security 
interest in reviewing foreign investments in U.S. businesses 
that do not make export-controlled technology. One example is 
in the artificial intelligence (AI) space, where the level of 
export controls is relatively low but the potential for 
national security risk, particularly associated with frontier 
AI systems, is growing exponentially. Congress should consider 
providing CFIUS with a limited new authority to define a set of 
``technologies controlled for investment purposes'' that would 
be an additional category within the definition of ``critical 
technologies'' to address these concerns. Additional technical 
detail is provided in my written testimony. \5\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \5\ Kilcrease, ``U.S. Economic Security Strategy, Authorities, and 
Bureaucratic Capacity''.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The single most important thing that Congress can do to 
improve CFIUS's work related to sensitive personal data is pass 
comprehensive data security and data privacy legislation. CFIUS 
has a well-established practice of addressing national security 
risks associated with sensitive personal data, as these risks 
arise in the context of a foreign investment. Too often, CFIUS 
must take action to address these risks simply because it is 
the only authority able to do so. This is a drain on CFIUS 
bandwidth and leads to a patchwork approach to data security 
and data privacy. The administration's recent Executive order 
on data security is an important first step in remedying this, 
but Congress must act to address the broader systemic issues 
related to data security and data privacy. \6\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \6\ Exec. Order No. 14,117, 89 FR 15421, (February 28, 2024), 
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2024/03/01/2024-04573/
preventing-access-to-americans-bulk-sensitive-personal-data-and-united-
states-government-related.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                ------                                


               RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF
            SENATOR VAN HOLLEN FROM EMILY KILCREASE

Q.1. Ms. Gorman and Ms. Kilcrease, you both testified to the 
importance of collaboration to help strengthen our competition 
strategy, calling for better coordination among Federal 
agencies and for improved multilateral cooperation with our 
partners and allies.
    In what specific ways should we better organize and 
leverage the tools at our disposal to promote multilateral 
cooperation to more effectively advance our competition 
strategy?

A.1. U.S. competition strategy must involve both defensive and 
proactive components. On the defensive elements, the United 
States should deepen cooperation with key partners on economic 
security policy tools, such as export controls, inbound 
investment screening, outbound investment controls, and data 
security. The guiding principle should be that the United 
States and its partners treat similar commercial transactions 
involving similar national security risks in a similar manner. 
This will strengthen the collective posture of U.S. and partner 
countries relative to strategic competitors, while also 
avoiding the negative impacts on U.S. competitiveness that can 
arise if U.S. partners have more permissive policies.
    Ultimately, the United States should strive towards a 
multilateral regime that aligns U.S. policy on economic 
security tools with that of its partners. Such a mechanism 
would primarily serve as an information-sharing and 
coordination mechanism, with countries responsible for 
implementing agreements in their domestic processes. The 
objectives of the new regime would be to:

    ``Promote international security and common 
        security of the member Nations;

    Prevent the destabilizing accumulations of 
        conventional or emerging weapons globally and prevent 
        the transfer of dual-use technologies for such weapons 
        to countries of concern;

    Promote the technological leadership in science, 
        technology, engineering, and manufacturing sectors, 
        including in foundational and emerging technology 
        areas, that are material to national security and 
        foreign policy of the member States; and

    Support the protection of human rights and 
        democratic institutions.'' \1\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \1\ ``Challenging China's Trade Practices: Promoting Interests of 
U.S. Workers, Farmers, Producers, and Innovators'': Hearing Before the 
U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission, 117th Cong. (2022), 
(statement of Emily Kilcrease, Senior Fellow and Director, Energy, 
Economics, and Security Program, CNAS), https://s3.us-east-
1.amazonaws.com/files.cnas.org/backgrounds/documents/CNAS-Emily-
Kilcrease-USCC-Testimony-04.14.2022-Hearing.pdf.

    In support of these broader objectives, participating 
countries could seek to advance a shared assessment of the 
threat presented by China and other strategic competitors, 
identify technologies that are important to the national 
security of the participating members and that should be 
subject to joint controls (including in the export control or 
investment control context), and align institutional processes 
and policies in each country. It is unlikely that the United 
States or other countries would agree to binding rules on 
issues related to national security, but the coordination, 
information-sharing, and norm-setting functions of a regime as 
outlined here would substantially enhance alignment between the 
United States and key partners on economic security issues.
    U.S. competition policy cannot be only defensive, however. 
The United States must proactively seek to advance U.S. 
competitiveness in global markets. As the United States 
proceeds with a necessary derisking of economic ties with 
China, it must compensate for lost economic opportunity by 
building markets elsewhere. It must do so in a manner that 
reflects new priorities for U.S. trade policy, such as supply 
chain resiliency, economic security, and labor and environment 
protections. The United States should pursue economic security 
agreements to enhance resiliency and integration with key 
partners in critical sectors. \2\ Such agreements could focus 
on aligning economic security and industrial policies, 
enhancing competition and innovation in critical technology 
areas, and strengthening labor, environment, and digital trade 
standards in trading partner countries.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \2\ Emily Kilcrease, ``No Winners in This Game: Assessing the U.S. 
Playbook for Sanctioning China'' (Washington, DC:, Center for a New 
American Security, December 1, 2023), 66, https://s3.us-east-
1.amazonaws.com/files.cnas.org/documents/EES-No-Winners-Final-1.pdf.

Q.2. While it is preferable to secure multilateral cooperation 
through voluntary participation, under what circumstances 
should the United States use secondary sanctions to achieve our 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
goals?

A.2. Secondary sanctions are a powerful tool, as they extend 
the reach of U.S. sanctions extraterritorially and cover even 
those transactions that do not involve a U.S. person. \3\ They 
can be an important enforcement tool to address sanctions 
evasion or transshipment through third party countries. For 
example, the threat of secondary sanctions appears anecdotally 
to have had a chilling effect on banks in third party countries 
(e.g., Turkey) that may have been financing shipments of 
critical goods to Russia. \4\ While secondary sanctions are 
largely a U.S. tool, the authorization of these secondary 
sanctions appears to have been well coordinated with the 
coalition of countries imposing sanctions on Russia, enhancing 
the legitimacy and effectiveness of the sanctions effort.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \3\ Jason Bartlett and Megan Ophel, ``Sanctions by the Numbers: 
U.S. Secondary Sanctions'' (Washington, DC: Center for a New American 
Security, August 26, 2021), https://www.cnas.org/publications/reports/
sanctions-by-the-numbers-u-s-secondary-sanctions.
     \4\ Beril Akman, Asli Kandemir, and Firat Kozok, ``Turkish Banks 
Tighten Screws on Russia Over Fear of U.S. Sanctions'', Bloomberg, 
January 17, 2024, https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-17/
turkish-banks-tighten-screws-on-russia-over-fear-of-us-sanctions.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The United States should exercise caution when considering 
secondary sanctions on close allies. The threat of secondary 
sanctions was politically damaging to the U.S.-European 
relationship, for example, after the United States pulled out 
of the Iran nuclear deal and sought to prevent European 
companies from engaging with Iranian counterparts. \5\ Fears of 
such action were part of the motivation for Europe to develop a 
blocking statute to protect their companies from exposure to 
U.S. sanctions. In future sanctions scenarios involving China, 
secondary sanctions could lead to a divisive wedge between the 
United States and allies at a moment when signaling unity is a 
political imperative. It would also put the United States in an 
uncomfortable enforcement position, as it would need to be 
willing to enforce the secondary sanctions by punishing 
companies from allied countries.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \5\ Bartlett and Ophel, ``Sanctions by the Numbers: U.S. Secondary 
Sanctions''.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                ------                                


       RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR WARNOCK
                      FROM EMILY KILCREASE

Q.1. You have noted that the United States has been relatively 
restrained in levying sanctions on the People's Republic of 
China, specifically stating, ``To date, the United States has 
exercised restraint in using financial sanctions against 
Chinese targets, with notable exceptions related to human 
rights or support for Iran.'' \1\ You also point out that 
``sanctioning China represents a challenge more complex than 
any other in the modern era of sanctions.'' \2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \1\ Emily Kilcrease, ``No Winners in This Game, Center for New 
American Security'' (Dec. 2023), https://s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/
files.cnas.org/documents/EES-No-Winners-Final-1.pdf at 33.
     \2\ Id.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    As China continues to posture itself on the side of 
America's adversaries, like Iran and Russia, how can we best 
ensure that our sanctions have the intended effect and deter 
bad behavior?

A.1. An effective sanctions posture vis-a-vis China will 
require a nuanced mix of strategic restraint paired with 
deliberate efforts to build credibility of the U.S. sanctions 
threat. The United States has few good options when it comes to 
sanctioning China, given the intermingled nature of U.S. and 
Chinese supply chains and the role that China plays as a major 
trading partner with most of the globe. The one area of clear 
sanctions power is in the financial sector, where the United 
States can leverage the essential role of the U.S. dollar in 
global finance to place broad pressure across the Chinese 
economy and to target specific entities. The United States 
should preserve this leverage for times of genuine crisis or 
conflict, as premature efforts to weaponize the U.S. dollar 
would erode the potency of U.S. financial sanctions. \3\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \3\ Emily Kilcrease and John Hughes, ``It's Not Time To Hit China 
With Financial Sanctions--Yet'', The Hill, January 16, 2024, https://
thehill.com/opinion/international/4411407-its-not-time-to-hit-china-
with-financial-sanctions-yet/.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    At the same time, the United States must clearly signal its 
ability and willingness to escalate sanctions, including in the 
financial sector, should China cross certain geopolitical 
redlines. Ideally, such signaling would occur in partnership 
with the G7 or other close U.S. partners to demonstrate a 
united resolve to use sanctions tools to deter or respond to 
PRC actions that are against U.S. interests. U.S. credibility 
today is uncertain, as the PRC could assess that the United 
States is unwilling to accept the costs of harsh sanctions or 
that it would be unable to secure support from other 
international partners. These dynamics dangerously undercut the 
deterrent effect that sanctions can have.
    One way to enhance the credibility of the sanctions threat 
is to strengthen the strategic planning process for the use of 
sanctions and other economic tools. While such planning is 
routine in the military community, sanctions policy is too 
often developed in an ad hoc or reactive manner. The economic 
agencies, with support from Congress, should institutionalize a 
sanctions strategic planning process, which can prepare for a 
range of potential future crisis or conflict scenarios and game 
out the geopolitical impact and economic consequences of using 
different sanctions strategies. This work should be done with 
an eye to integrating planning efforts with the military 
community and with international partners. The Government must 
also be constantly assessing the effectiveness of its sanctions 
tools, particularly as new and innovative tools continue to be 
rolled out (e.g., oil price cap, foreign direct product rules). 
While Treasury has an office tasked with assessing the impact 
of financial sanctions, Commerce does not have a comparable 
office for export controls, which are increasingly being used 
to deal with a range of foreign policy and national security 
problems.
    Sanctions credibility also requires strong enforcement of 
those sanctions already in place. The Government has an acute 
need for expanded enforcement resources. As is clear in the 
Russia context, sanctioned States show a remarkable ability to 
adapt and develop sanctions evasion schemes, requiring 
sustained U.S. enforcement actions to maintain the pressure of 
sanctions throughout a protracted conflict.
    Ultimately, the most effective sanctions posture will be 
one that recognizes the clear limits of U.S. sanctions and 
considers sanctions as just one tool that, in tandem with other 
instruments of national power, can be used to advance U.S. 
foreign policy interests. The limits of sanctions heighten the 
need for a more integrated planning process that appropriately 
places sanctions alongside all instruments of national power in 
building integrated deterrence strategies for China.

Q.2. How can we better target sanctions to maximize their 
impact on decision makers, while minimizing their impact on 
poor communities who have little say over the activities of 
those in power?

A.2. ``Smart sanctions'' are intended to target specific actors 
within a political system, rather than placing broad, damaging 
pressure across an entire economy. The smarts sanctions 
approach was developed in recognition of the negative effects 
that sanctions can have throughout a country, including on 
those communities with no connection to political elites. In 
theory, a smart sanctions approach would target sanctions to 
those individuals, Government entities, or organizations 
directly in involved in the problematic behavior. In certain 
sanctions contexts, this approach can mitigate unintended 
consequences for the broader population.
    In practice, however, impacts are difficult to contain once 
sanctions reach higher levels of escalation and cover broader 
swathes of the economy. Established financial institutions are 
likely to exit the market in order to avoid exposure to 
sanctions, and sanctions can also result in broad macroeconomic 
effects, such as rampant inflation. \4\ The Department of the 
Treasury has taken an important step to address humanitarian 
concern by establishing an office dedicated to assessing the 
impact of sanctions. Analytic efforts, such as those carried 
out by this office, are important to project potential 
humanitarian impacts, as well as to monitor unanticipated 
effects of the sanctions. Congress should support efforts at 
Treasury and elsewhere in the U.S. Government to anticipate and 
monitor potential humanitarian impacts.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \4\ Rice, Tara, and von Peter, Goetz, and Boar, Codruta, ``On the 
Global Retreat of Correspondent Banks'' (BIS Quarterly Review, March 
01, 2020), https://www.bis.org/publ/qtrpdf/r-qt2003g.htm; Esfandyar 
Batmanghelidj and Erica Moret, ``The Hidden Toll of Sanctions: Why 
Washington Must Reckon With the Devastating Inflation Its Policies 
Cause'', Foreign Affairs, January 17, 2022, https://
www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/world/2022-01-17/hidden-toll-sanctions.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Additionally, engagement with the humanitarian community is 
key to understanding and addressing the impact of sanctions on 
marginalized communities. Humanitarian groups regularly report 
that it is difficult to provide humanitarian support within a 
heavily sanctioned jurisdiction. General licenses that 
explicitly permit the provision of humanitarian aid, as well as 
food and medicine, can address part of this problem. For 
example, the United States exempted food and medicine from its 
sanctions and export controls in the Russia case. Policymakers 
must remain in dialogue with humanitarian groups to understand 
the practical constraints that sanctions place on their 
operations as well as humanitarian conditions on the ground.

Q.3. Given that the People's Republic of China is heavily 
subsidizing its domestic solar manufacturing industry and 
flooding the market with solar panels at lower prices than 
American competitors can offer, \5\ what steps can Congress and 
the Administration take to maximize investment in affordable 
clean energy and incentivize domestic production?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \5\ Ana Swanson and Kim Tankersley, ``Flush With Investment, New 
U.S. Factories Face a Familiar Challenge'', The New York Times, January 
15, 2024, https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/15/business/economy/china-
electric-cars-chips-solar.html.

A.3. Investments in domestic manufacturing capacity are 
critical to ensure that the United States has a balanced clean 
energy policy that creates demand for clean energy technologies 
while also ensuring that the supply of these technologies is 
secure and reliable. Incentivizing domestic production can take 
a range of forms, such as the tax incentives included in the 
Inflation Reduction Act (IRA), funding for clean energy supply 
chains provided under Defense Production Act (DPA) authorities, 
or establishment of new financing mechanisms (e.g., the 
Industrial Finance Corporation) to fund projects that are 
under-valued by the private sector. The United States may wish 
to consider trade remedies, such as anti-dumping or 
countervailing duties, to address the nonmarket practices and 
unfair subsidies of the People's Republic of China (PRC). 
However, these remedies have traditionally been slow to deliver 
relief and can result in unintended consequences, such as 
commercial harm to U.S. installers of solar energy who rely on 
lower cost goods from China. \6\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \6\ Nichola Groom, ``U.S. Places Tariffs on Some Big Solar 
Companies for Dodging China Duties'', Reuters, August 18, 2023, https:/
/www.reuters.com/sustainability/us-slaps-tariffs-some-big-solar-
companies-dodging-china-duties-2023-08-18/.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The United States must also ensure that the domestic market 
can support clean energy investments. The United States must 
make investments in a clean energy workforce, building the 
skills necessary for a clean energy economy while ensuring that 
workers benefit from a transition to clean energy technologies. 
\7\ As the climate transition shifts the composition of jobs in 
the economy, the U.S. Government must focus on reskilling and 
retraining workers who may be negatively impacted (e.g., 
workers at factories making internal combustion engine cars). 
In the electric vehicle space, investments in technology must 
be paired with supporting infrastructure. Early efforts to 
develop national electric vehicle charging infrastructure have 
been slow, which may have negative repercussions for adoption 
and consumer demand. \8\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \7\ Jack Ewing, ``Battle Over Electric Vehicles Is Central to Auto 
Strike'', The New York Times, September 16, 2023, https://
www.nytimes.com/2023/09/16/business/electric-vehicles-uaw-gm-ford-
stellantis.html.
     \8\ James Bikales, ``Congress Provided $7.5B for Electric Vehicle 
Chargers. Built So Far: Zero''. Politico, December 5, 2023, https://
www.politico.com/news/2023/12/05/congress-ev-chargers-billions-
00129996.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                ------                                


         RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF CHAIR BROWN
                      FROM JAMIL N. JAFFER

Q.1. In previous testimony to the House of Representatives, you 
cited the Export-Import Bank's China and Transformational 
Exports Program as an example of how Federal financing for 
American industry can help ``fill the gap that Chinese economic 
coercion creates.'' Congress directed EXIM to use the CTEP 
program to prioritize financing for American exports in ten 
critical areas, such as artificial intelligence, renewable 
energy and energy storage, wireless communications, and 
semiconductors.
    We have heard that EXIM's ability to provide financing to 
emerging industries is partially constrained because of the 
rules established by Congress for the Bank's default rate. 
While EXIM can provide financing for American exporters in 
emerging industries, the Bank has to be more conservative in 
its lending practices to ensure stability in its default rate. 
If the Bank's traditionally low default rate increases too 
much, the Bank essentially loses the ability to provide any new 
financing--not only making it harder for us to compete with 
China but also limiting our ability to support U.S. exporters, 
including small businesses looking to grow their global market 
share.
    Should our Committee look at how Congress could help EXIM 
provide more financing to American companies that face Chinese 
competition in key sectors?

A.1. There is no question that there is significant value in 
the Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs 
looking at how the Committee--and Congress at large--might be 
able to help the Export-Import Bank of the United States (EXIM) 
provide more financing to American companies that are competing 
with Chinese companies in key sectors, including the ten 
transformational sectors identified in the China and 
Transformational Exports Program (CTEP). Such support is vital 
to allowing U.S. companies to be fully competitive in areas 
such as artificial intelligence, biotechnology, biomedical 
capabilities, wireless communications, renewable energy, 
semiconductors, financial technology, water treatment and 
sanitation, and high-performance computing, as well as 
underlying capabilities like critical minerals mining and 
processing. Ensuring that American companies are not only 
competitive but win these opportunities abroad in in the 
economic and national security interest of our Nation.
    As you know, in September 2023, the EXIM Office of 
Inspector General issued a report which found that ``EXIM's 2 
percent default rate cap, a statutory requirement, is unique 
among OECD [Export Credit Agencies] and discourages staff from 
taking risks and meeting other Congressional Mandates.'' \1\ 
Given the critical importance of CTEP, at a minimum, Congress 
ought fully exclude CTEP transactions from the statutory 
default rate calculation where such transactions are approved 
by the EXIM Board of Directors.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \1\ See EXIM Office of the Inspector General, ``Comparative 
Analysis of U.S. and OECD Arrangement Export Credit Agencies'', OIG-EV-
23-04, at 24 (Sept. 29, 2023), available online at https://
www.oversight.gov/sites/default/files/oig-reports/EIB/EXIM-OIGECA-
EvaluationOIG-EV-23-04FINAL.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In addition, as you may recall in 2021, the EXIM Advisory 
Committee Chairman, former Congressman Stevan Pearce (R-NM), 
sent EXIM's 2020 Report to the U.S. Congress on Global Export 
Competition to Congress and recommended, with respect to CTEP, 
that ``Congress fully resource this significant new mandate 
which also has national security components'' and that 
``Congress consider expanding EXIM's authority to support 
defense articles and services and review how foreign ECAs 
support such exports.'' \2\ I support these recommendations. In 
addition, the Committee might review CTEP's current staffing 
and budget and take action to provide the full resources 
necessary to fulfill the CTEP mandate provided by Congress in 
its 2019 reauthorization of EXIM.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \2\ See Export-Import Bank of the United States, ``2020 Report to 
the U.S. Congress on Global Export Competition'', at 8-9 (July 2021), 
available online at https://img.exim.gov/s3fs-public/reports/
competitiveness-reports/2020/EXIM-2020-CompetitivenessReport-Web-Ready-
Single%20pages.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                ------                                


               RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF
           SENATOR CORTEZ MASTO FROM JAMIL N. JAFFER

Q.1. This week the International Monetary Fund (IMF) released a 
new analysis that examines the potential impacts of AI on the 
global labor market and says that AI will affect almost 40 
percent of global jobs. Do you generally agree with this 
analysis, and if so, how do you think the productivity gains 
from AI compared to the jobs losses from the technology will 
impact the specific competition between the U.S. and China?

A.1. There is no question that the advent and widescale 
adoption of artificial intelligence will have a significant 
impact on jobs globally, however it remains unclear whether 
this will result in a net gain or loss of jobs and whether the 
productivity gains will outstrip any net loss should there be 
one. \1\ The IMF's analysis itself notes that ``AI will expand 
economies' production frontiers and will lead to reallocations 
between labor and capital while triggering potentially profound 
changes in many jobs and sectors'' and that ``AI [also] offers 
unprecedented opportunities for solving complex problems and 
improving the accuracy of predictions, enhancing decision-
making, boosting economic growth, and improving lives.'' \2\ At 
the same time, the IMF notes that ``precisely because of its 
vast and flexible applicability in numerous domains, the 
implications for economies and societies are uncertain.'' \3\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \1\ See Mauro Cazzinga, et al., ``Gen-AI: Artificial Intelligence 
and the Future of Work'', at 2, International Monetary Fund (Jan. 14, 
2024), available online at https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/Staff-
Discussion-Notes/Issues/2024/01/14/Gen-AI-Artificial-Intelligence-and-
the-Future-of-Work-542379?cid=bl-com-SDNEA2024001 (``Artificial 
intelligence (AI) is set to profoundly change the global economy, with 
some commentators seeing it as akin to a new industrial revolution. Its 
consequences for economies and societies remain hard to foresee. This 
is especially evident in the context of labor markets, where AI 
promises to increase productivity while threatening to replace humans 
in some jobs and to complement them in others.'')
     \2\ See id. at 3.
     \3\ Id.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Overall, however, the IMG assesses that ``[o]wing to 
capital deepening and a productivity surge, AI adoption is 
expected to boost total income'' and that ``[i]f AI strongly 
complements human labor in certain occupations and the 
productivity gains are sufficiently large, higher growth and 
labor demand could more than compensate for the partial 
replacement of labor tasks by AI, and incomes could increase 
along most of the income distribution.'' \4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \4\ Id. at 2.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    There is strong evidence from prior revolutions that 
significant advances in technology, systems, and processes 
result in long-term economic gains in societies that are able 
to adopt the new technologies and take advantage of them. \5\ 
Given this, there is little doubt in my mind that the United 
States will be net advantaged by the advent of artificial 
intelligence if we are able to maintain or expand our current 
technology lead with respect to China.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \5\ See, e.g., Diego Comin and Bart Hobijn, ``An Exploration of 
Technology Diffusion'', at 4, 21-25, Harvard Business School Working 
Paper No. 08-093 (Apr. 2008), available online at https://www.hbs.edu/
ris/Publication%20Files/08-093--097fb722-e6dd-466d-aa1a-
29733fa92757.pdf (``The remarkable development records of Japan in the 
second half of the Nineteenth Century and the first half of the 
Twentieth Century and of the, so-called, East Asian Tigers in the 
second half of the Twentieth Century all coincided with a catch-up in 
the range of technologies used with respect to industrialized 
countries. All these development miracles involved a substantial 
reduction of the technology adoption lags in these countries relative 
to those in (other) OECD countries.''); see, also, Darrell M. West, 
``Technology and the Innovation Economy'', at 1, Center for Technology 
Innovation, Brookings Institution (Oct. 19, 2011), available online at 
https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/1019-technology-
innovation-west.pdf (noting that ``[i]nnovation and entrepreneurship 
are crucial for long-term economic development'' and that 
``[r]esearchers have found a link between technology innovation and 
national economic prosperity''); Noshua Watson, ``How Technology 
Spreads'', The Digest, National Bureau of Economic Research (July 
2001), available online at https://www.nber.org/digest/jul01/how-
technology-spreads (``The adoption of new technology is essential to 
long-term macroeconomic growth.'').

Q.2. How do you envision each country's approach to AI 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
expansion may account for different labor market results?

A.2. It is hard to assess at this time the impact of each 
country's approach to AI expansion on the labor markets. \6\ 
The IMF's analysis indicates that ``[t]he impact of AI is also 
likely to differ significantly across countries at different 
levels of development or with different economic structures.'' 
\7\ Specifically, the IMF notes that ``[a]dvanced economies, 
with their mature industries and service-driven economies, 
typically have a higher concentration of jobs in sectors that 
require complex cognitive tasks . . . [and] therefore [are] 
both more susceptible to, yet better positioned to benefit 
from, AI innovations.'' \8\ At the same time, the IMF also 
notes that ``emerging market and developing economies, often 
still reliant on manual labor and traditional industries, may 
initially face fewer AI-induced disruptions . . . [but] these 
economies may also miss out on early AI-driven productivity 
gains, given their lack of infrastructure and a skilled 
workforce.'' \9\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \6\ Id.
     \7\ See Cazzinga, et al., ``Gen-AI'', supra n. 3, at 4.
     \8\ Id.
     \9\ Id.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Regardless, if one accepts the assessment above that the 
U.S. will be net advantaged by broad adoption of AI 
capabilities if it maintains or expands the technological edge 
it currently enjoys, based on the historic productive gains as 
a result of rapid technology adoption, then accelerating AI 
expansion at home is in the economic and national security 
interests of the United States.
                                ------                                


               RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF
            SENATOR CORTEZ MASTO FROM LINDSAY GORMAN

Q.1. This week the International Monetary Fund (IMF) released a 
new analysis that examines the potential impacts of AI on the 
global labor market and says that AI will affect almost 40 
percent of global jobs. Do you generally agree with this 
analysis, and if so, how do you think the productivity gains 
from AI compared to the jobs losses from the technology will 
impact the specific competition between the U.S. and China?

A.1. Response not received in time for publication.

Q.2. How do you envision each country's approach to AI 
expansion may account for different labor market results?

A.2. Response not received in time for publication.
                                ------                                


               RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF
             SENATOR VAN HOLLEN FROM LINDSAY GORMAN

Q.1. You testified to the importance of collaboration to help 
strengthen our competition strategy, calling for better 
coordination among Federal agencies and for improved 
multilateral cooperation with our partners and allies.
    In what specific ways should we better organize and 
leverage the tools at our disposal to promote multilateral 
cooperation to more effectively advance our competition 
strategy?

A.1. Response not received in time for publication.

Q.2. While it is preferable to secure multilateral cooperation 
through voluntary participation, under what circumstances 
should the United States use secondary sanctions to achieve our 
goals?

A.2. Response not received in time for publication.
                                ------                                


       RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR WARNOCK
                      FROM LINDSAY GORMAN

Q.1. You have previously noted that the CHIPS and Science Act 
(Pub. L. 117-167) is ``an excellent start in reversing the 
chronic public underfunding of U.S. research and development.'' 
\1\ How can the United States leverage our strengths and build 
upon the successes of the CHIPS and Science Act to better 
counter China's current technology investment strategy?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \1\ ``Commanding Heights: Ensuring U.S. Leadership in the Critical 
and Emerging Technologies of the 21st Century'', The House Select 
Committee on the Chinese Communist Party (July 26, 2023), Prepared 
Testimony from Lindsay Gorman, https://
selectcommitteeontheccp.house.gov/committee-activity/hearings/hearing-
notice-commanding-heights-ensuring-us-leadership-critical-and.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
A.1. Response not received in time for publication.

Q.2. The People's Republic of China has spent hundreds of 
billions of dollars building up its solar industry and today, 
it controls more than 80 percent of the share in all the 
manufacturing stages of solar panels. \2\ Given that China is 
heavily subsidizing its domestic solar manufacturing industry 
and flooding the market with solar panels at lower prices than 
American competitors can offer, \3\ what steps can Congress and 
the Administration take to maximize investment in affordable 
clean energy and incentivize domestic production?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \2\ Special Report on Solar PV Global Supply Chains, International 
Energy Agency (2022), https://www.iea.org/reports/solar-pv-global-
supply-chains.
     \3\ Id.

A.2. Response not received in time for publication.