[Senate Hearing 118-629]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 118-629
DREAM DEFERRED: THE URGENT NEED
TO PROTECT IMMIGRANT YOUTH
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
MAY 8, 2024
__________
Serial No. J-118-65
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
www.judiciary.senate.gov
www.govinfo.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
60-168 WASHINGTON : 2026
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois, Chair
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina,
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota Ranking Member
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut JOHN CORNYN, Texas
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii MICHAEL S. LEE, Utah
CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey TED CRUZ, Texas
ALEX PADILLA, California JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
JON OSSOFF, Georgia TOM COTTON, Arkansas
PETER WELCH, Vermont JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
LAPHONZA BUTLER, California THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee
Joseph Zogby, Majority Staff Director
Kolan L. Davis, Minority Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
----------
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Durbin, Hon. Richard J........................................... 1
Graham, Hon. Lindsey O........................................... 3
Padilla, Hon. Alex............................................... 4
Cornyn, Hon. John................................................ 6
WITNESSES
Nobles, Tammy.................................................... 15
Prepared statement........................................... 48
Pacheco, Maria Gabriela.......................................... 16
Prepared statement........................................... 50
Soto-Rodrigueze, Mitchell........................................ 10
Prepared statement........................................... 54
Vaughan, Jessica M............................................... 12
Prepared statement........................................... 56
Wong, Tom K...................................................... 13
Prepared statement........................................... 66
APPENDIX
Items submitted for the record................................... 47
DREAM DEFERRED: THE URGENT NEED
TO PROTECT IMMIGRANT YOUTH
----------
WEDNESDAY, MAY 8, 2024
United States Senate,
Committee on the Judiciary,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:04 a.m., in
Room 106, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Richard J.
Durbin, Chair of the Committee, presiding.
Present: Senators Durbin [presiding], Whitehouse,
Klobuchar, Coons, Blumenthal, Hirono, Booker, Padilla, Ossoff,
Welch, Butler, Graham, Grassley, Cornyn, Hawley, Kennedy,
Tillis, and Blackburn.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD J. DURBIN,
A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS
Chair Durbin. This hearing of the Senate Judiciary
Committee will come to order. Today, the Senate Judiciary
Committee will discuss the contributions of Dreamers to their
communities and our country and the need for Congress to
finally, finally take action to protect them.
Twenty-four years ago, I met a young woman in Chicago named
Tereza Lee. She had the opportunity to go to the Manhattan
Conservatory of Music, but she learned when she started to fill
out her application--for the first time learned that she was
undocumented, even though she had been brought to the United
States and had lived here since she was 2 years old. She was
confused, afraid, and searching for options to pursue her
dreams in the only country she ever called home.
I checked into it. The laws were brutal. It required her to
leave the United States for 10 years and apply to return. I was
frustrated by the lack of options in our immigration system for
these young people who were brought here as children and
infants by their parents. Tereza inspired me to introduce the
DREAM Act. I started to speak in Illinois and on the Senate
floor about the challenges these young Americans faced. Their
stories stay with us because we see ourselves reflected in
them.
Many Dreamers would approach and whisper to me, sometimes
with great fear, obvious fear, Senator, I'm one of those
children you're talking about. More than two decades later,
Dreamers are not whispering anymore. I'm proud to see them,
like some of our witnesses today, become fierce advocates for
America to live up to its promise of equal justice. I want to
share a short video in which several Dreamers tell their
stories in their own words.
[Video is shown.]
Chair Durbin. Well, it was 23 years ago when I first
introduced the DREAM Act, with the late Senate--late
Republican--retired Republican Senator Orrin Hatch, to provide
relief for these young Americans. We actually had a debate
between Senator Hatch and myself as to who would be the lead
sponsor. The first 2 years, he won the debate, and he was the
lead sponsor on our bill. Unfortunately, he didn't continue to
support it over the years, but I'm happy that my colleague and
partner across the aisle, Ranking Member Lindsey Graham, here,
has joined me as the lead co-sponsor for this legislation for
the past several Congresses. I genuinely thank you for your
support.
While a bipartisan majority of Senators has supported the
DREAM Act on numerous occasions, unfortunately it has been
filibustered when it comes to the floor. Because of Congress's
inaction, at the urging of myself and the late Republican
Senator Richard Lugar, President Obama announced Deferred
Action for Childhood Arrivals, better known as DACA, in 2012.
More than 830,000 Dreamers have been protected by DACA since
2012. For the record, DACA requires reapplication every 2 years
and a thorough background check for everyone who qualifies for
DACA.
Thanks to DACA, many young people have been able to pursue
higher education, start businesses, buy homes, and raise
families. DACA allows Dreamers to match their talents to labor
market needs, increase their wages, and contribute to the
American economy. Researchers estimate that in 2022, DACA
recipients earned $27.9 billion and contributed nearly $2.1
billion to Social Security and Medicare. This program has
helped so many young Americans come out of the shadows and into
the light. I have shared many of their stories over the years,
over 140 times on the floor of the Senate. I look forward to
hearing directly from some of them today.
Officer Mitchell Soto-Rodriguez today is one of these
people. Ongoing litigation brought by Republican attorneys
general threaten everything that DACA recipients have built in
this country. Even if the courts find, as they should, that
DACA is lawful, a future administration can try to end the
program. We saw this when the former President attempted to
eliminate DACA, and clearly he would try again if he's given a
chance.
Sadly, many Dreamers cannot access the DACA program today.
Almost 100,000 Dreamers have had their applications and lives
placed on hold by court battles, and many other Dreamers are
ineligible for DACA because they arrived too late to qualify.
DACA was always intended to be a temporary, stopgap program
until Congress acts on a permanent solution. The time is long
past due for Congress to do our part and provide a path to
citizenship to Dreamers. Poll after poll shows that the vast
majority of Americans agree. Both sides of the aisle. And when
we establish this path to citizenship, all Americans realize
we'll reap benefits from that experience.
Let me add that Congress should act also to secure our
border. These are not mutually exclusive goals at all.
Unfortunately, one would-be Presidential candidate stopped a
bipartisan effort on the floor, just weeks ago, to try to deal
with border security. I hope that they will relent and the
Republicans will join the Democrats in a bipartisan effort.
James Lankford, a conservative Republican from Oklahoma, led
the effort, and we should honor him by passing this bill. I now
recognize Senator Graham for opening statements.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LINDSEY O. GRAHAM,
A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA
Senator Graham. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I've enjoyed
working with you on the Dreamer issue. It is a very sympathetic
group of people that came here as young people, without being
asked to be brought, and spent a lot of time in America, with
generally no place to go. And I understand that, very much so.
Unfortunately, since we started this discussion, the last 3
years have been a complete, utter disaster for American
immigration policy. I'll start with the numbers here.
When you and I first started talking about comprehensive
immigration reform, we were talking about what to do about the
11 million. We thought there were about 11 million people here
illegally. If you were a felon, you had to leave. You had to
take an English exam. You had to, you know, not be a criminal,
pay a fine, get in line. That sort of all made sense. Eleven
million people is a lot of folks, but we were trying to manage
that population.
Since President Biden's taken office, 7.7 have come in.
Some people believe it's closer to ten. So, the last 3 years
have been a complete, utter disaster. The American people have
suffered, particularly the border communities and States. The
policies of this administration have proven to us, as
Republicans over here, that there really is no serious effort
to control this. Senator Lankford--I appreciate his efforts.
The folks, not just President Trump himself but Chad Wolf and
others, thought that the bill was inadequate to the task in
terms of border security.
So, the bottom line now for us is, if you legalize anybody
in this environment, whatever problems you have get
exponentially worse. So, I don't ever see anything on the DREAM
Act coming anytime soon until we stop the abuse of parole and
some underlying problems. And right now, my concern is
different than yours. You're concerned about the DACA
population. I think we should all be concerned. I'm most
concerned about a border completely open and the FBI director
saying that wherever he looks, he sees blinking lights.
So, fixing DACA is not my concern right now. My concern is
regaining control over our sovereignty that's been lost, trying
to deal with the rise of terrorism throughout the world, and
make sure another 9/11 doesn't happen to America. I've never
seen more threats to the country, writ large, than I do now. A
broken border is a lethal cocktail, rising threats overseas and
a broken border here. Fentanyl poisoning is a higher priority
for me right now. It's not that I don't care about the
Dreamers. I do. But you got more Americans dying, from 18 to
35, from fentanyl poisoning than any other cause.
So, that's my concern--is to try to get China to stop
poisoning America, to do something with the drug cartels that
are making billions of dollars sending drugs and human
trafficking, to go after them. So, right now, you're going to
find, at least on our side of the aisle, the biggest concerns
are the crime associated with illegal immigration, the National
security threats associated with illegal immigration, the
poisoning of America associated with illegal immigration. To
try to get control over chaos. That's my biggest concern, and
until those concerns are addressed, nothing else is going to
happen on legalization.
Chair Durbin. I respect you very much. And we disagree on
issues and agree on others. I'm glad for that. I cannot imagine
how we can hold these young people accountable for what you're
concerned with. They came here as children and infants. All
they wanted to do is be part of the country that they pledged
allegiance to in the flag in the classroom every single day.
They go through extensive background checks to make sure that
they have nothing in their background that raises any serious
question. They work hard, under conditions which no other
American faces. No financial assistance to go to college except
by private means and an exceptional situation where they could
be literally deported at any moment. I concur with you that the
issues at the border are critical and important, and that's why
I supported Lankford's bill. I think we need to return to that.
Senator Graham. If I may, just very briefly--and I don't
want to prolong the hearing, here. Number one, if we did start
legalizing people now, I think you're sending a signal to keep
coming. The DREAM Act population that exists today--I've tried
to work with you to get a resolution. There've been seven to
ten million people come in. What do we do about the young
people in the last 3 years, brought here, no fault of their
own? They've been here 3 years. I don't see--what do we do
about them? I mean, are we going to have another round of DREAM
Act with twice the number of people?
Is there any end to this, where people come, brought by
their parents, and you wind up staying and becoming a citizen?
If that's the model to get to be a citizen, it's never going to
stop. I don't mind dealing with the DREAM Act population, but I
don't want to incentivize endless waves of immigration. And
that's what we would be doing.
Chair Durbin. I've been asked by the Chairman and Ranking
Member of the Immigration Subcommittee if they could make
statements. It's a little unusual, but I think it's appropriate
today. Senator Padilla, you're first.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. ALEX PADILLA,
A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for
being here today, and I want to thank both the Chairman and our
Ranking Member, Senator Graham, for committing to this hearing
on the urgent need to protect Dreamers in America. This is a
matter that historically has enjoyed bipartisan support,
including from Ranking Member Graham, who currently co-leads
the DREAM Act with Senator Durbin.
Now, as we all know, Dreamers are a group of young people
that, until earlier this year, actually, had been included in
every immigration negotiation for nearly a quarter of a
century. So, today I hope that we can join together to have an
honest, focused conversation about how Congress can act to help
the millions of Dreamers living in the United States who have
been in limbo for far too long. Now, colleagues, earlier this
year you'll recall that in the annual State of the Union,
President Biden himself recognized and recommitted to providing
a pathway to citizenship for Dreamers.
Sitting in the gallery that night was my guest for the
State of the Union, Dr. Denisse Rojas-Marquez, a DACA recipient
from California. After growing up and seeing family members
lack access to basic health coverage, she dreamt of serving her
community as a physician. Now, graduating from college and
medical school and becoming a doctor is tough enough for
anybody, but--additional barriers for those who aren't
documented. But despite that, she went on to earn her medical
degree and serve on the front lines during the COVID-19
pandemic.
This is not irrelevant, folks. Do you guys remember just a
couple of years ago? Every night on the news, at four, people
banged pots and pans out the window to show our appreciation
for front-line workers, for essential workers during the COVID-
19 pandemic. Those workers included millions of long-term
undocumented Americans, including doctors working in emergency
rooms, like Dr. Rojas-Marquez. She's the embodiment of the
American dream and the life-changing power of the DACA program.
But because of Congress's failure to act, even today, her
dream and so many others are under constant threat. As we've
heard today in the opening remarks from the Chairman, there are
over 500,000 DACA recipients in the United States, and there's
more than two million Dreamers. Now, everybody in this room is
paying close attention. We can appreciate the distinctions
between DACA and Dreamers, but for a lot of the general public,
not so much.
Let's be clear about who we're talking about. When we say
there's more than two million Dreamers, that's people who are
eligible for DACA but may not be part of the program today, for
a variety of reasons. Maybe they were, once upon a time, and
aren't anymore, and that's part of the problem, because unlike
DACA participants, current DACA participants, Dreamers that
aren't in the program have no work authorization, and they
enjoy no sort of even temporary protection from deportation.
Now, in the year 2024, we know the impact that millions of
Dreamers can have and do have on our country. They're not just
students. They don't just serve in the military. They're also
consumers, contributing billions of dollars to the economy
every single year, benefiting the Federal tax base, benefiting
State tax revenues and the community services that those tax
revenues provide. And yet DACA recipients are forced to plan
their lives between court decisions and renewal applications, 2
years at a time, fearful of what the future might hold in the
event of a bad court ruling.
Now, Dreamers who have lived in this country for years,
since they arrived as children, live in uncertainty, in
constant fear of deportation from the only home they've ever
known. Whether you're a Democrat or a Republican, I think we
can all agree that it is long past time to modernize our
outdated immigration system. And as our Republican colleagues
have begun to remind us today, that--yes, we also need to make
sure that the border is secure, is orderly, and, I'll remind
us, should also be humane, but we ought to be able to work to
address the challenges at the border. Right?
It's a very different population. Those individuals, those
families who are just now coming, trying to enter the United
States, in many cases to seek asylum. It's a very different
population than Dreamers and others who have been in the United
States already for years and years, in some cases decades,
working, contributing to the economy--the resilience of
communities raising families. We've got to be able to walk and
chew gum at the same time. We can't let one issue hold us up
from making progress on another issue that both Democrats and
Republicans are on the record, have publicly stated they're in
support of.
So, we can and must work toward immigration reform that can
provide certainty for these long-term immigrants we call
Dreamers. And I'll end, Mr. Chairman, with just this. I'm
hopeful, despite the exercise of the bipartisan negotiations
from several months ago that left Dreamers out. It's wrong.
That's not the new starting point for negotiations. Dreamers
and others must be on the table in future proposals and votes.
I think we ought to bring it to the floor for a vote. Mr.
Chairman, Ranking Member, your names are on the DREAM Act
today. Join me in asking Senator Schumer, Leader Schumer, to
bring it for a vote and let the public know where each and
every Senator stands on the DREAM Act and on helping Dreamers
in every community in this country. Thank you very much.
Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Padilla. Senator Cornyn.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN CORNYN,
A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS
Senator Cornyn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for allowing me to
make a statement. Legal, orderly, and humane immigration policy
has been the lifeblood of America, but that's not what we're
talking about. In fact, the Biden administration has outsourced
our immigration policy to criminal cartels for at least the
last 3 years. The public record will demonstrate that I've been
very sympathetic, as we all are, to the plight of these
children who came here through no fault of their own and who've
been placed in litigation limbo for the last 12 years.
President Obama, who issued the executive memorandum, admitted
multiple times that he did not have the authority to do this,
but then he did it, resulting in the litigation that we've seen
over the last 10 years. I think it's tragic that, as a result
of this action by the Obama administration, these young people
have been led to believe that this somehow provided a firm
foundation for their integration into the great American
heartland.
But unfortunately the conversation we're having here today
needs to be placed in the proper context. Nine million illegal
entries into the United States since the Biden administration
took over; 108,000 dead Americans last year because of drugs
that came across the southwestern border. The criminal
organizations that move millions of people across know they're
overwhelming our capacity to deal with it, and so then that's
when they--then when the border patrol is off the front lines,
that's when the drugs come across, including they'll--the
fentanyl that killed 71,000 Americans last year alone.
And then there's the 400,000 unaccompanied minors that have
been placed with sponsors in the United States, and the Biden
administration says, it's not our responsibility. We don't know
what's happening to them. We don't know whether they're being
trafficked for sex, being forced into labor, or what. I was in
the Oval Office when President Obama said he was contemplating
issuing an executive memorandum on the DREAM Act. We asked
him--I was among those who asked him, please give us a chance
to pass legislation. And we know that he declined to do that,
and here we are today.
This is the Committee of Jurisdiction that deals with
immigration policy, but we haven't had a single hearing on
fixing the broken system. Maybe components of it, like looking
through a soda straw while ignoring the fire that's occurring
all around us. Well, Senator Graham did a good job of
explaining the numbers of where we are today, but it's become
increasingly difficult for the Biden administration to sweep
this problem under the rug. They have the tools available to
them, the same laws that were in effect during the Trump
administration, to deal with much of this problem, but they
simply refuse to do so.
And then there's the pull factors that Senator Graham
alluded to. For example, last month the city of Denver,
Colorado published a newcomers playbook, welcoming migrants
into their community. As a part of their intake process, they
suggest immediately offering migrants onward transportation to
another destination. Just this week, the mayor of Chicago had
to scrap a poorly conceived plan to relocate minors to a
neighborhood in South Chicago ahead of the Democratic National
Convention. And President Biden continues to poison the well to
good-faith, bipartisan attempts to address this problem. It's
impossible for us to pass legislation dealing with this larger
problem, when President Biden simply refuses to enforce the
law, creating a huge magnet to more and more immigration.
For example, authorities that were intended to be exercised
on a case-by-case basis, the so-called parole authority, has
been exploited by President Biden to stand up entirely new
programs that Congress has not agreed to. For example, the
Department of Homeland Security set up a program to grant
parole and work permits to 30,000 people a month, from Cuba,
Haiti, Nicaragua, and Venezuela. That's 360,000 people a year,
simply waved into the country, given a work permit, and there
you go. The President has also expanded eligibility under the
already unlawful Central American Minors Program to certain
adults. Last year, the administration extended Venezuela's
temporary protected status designation to cover nearly a half a
million Venezuelans who illegally immigrated to the United
States. The Biden administration knows, just as the Obama
administration did when it came to DACA, that these programs
are built on quicksand. Anyone enrolled in these programs is
likely--and has, in fact, experienced tremendous uncertainty,
not as a result of the policies we have in place today but the
policies they put in place before, as far back as 12 years ago.
Now, you've heard our colleagues say, well, we just need to
take care of the Dreamers and DACA recipients. But the fact is,
they don't seem to care about the rest of the problems,
including the 108,000 dead Americans as a result of the drugs
and 400,000 minor children placed with sponsors that they
simply have lost track of. So, unfortunately, Democrats,
through their unwillingness to address these manifold problems
and the President's continued abuse of authorities, have made
it impossible and foolish for us to take up a stand-alone DACA
bill at this time.
Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Cornyn. I'd like to
clarify two things. The Lankford bill was a bipartisan effort
to deal with the border. Senator Lankford is a conservative
Republican from Oklahoma whom I respect very much. When the
bill was called on the floor of the Senate, four Republicans
voted for the bipartisan bill. None of them serve on the Senate
Judiciary Committee. So, to fault this Committee for not moving
the issue forward when every Senator was given a chance to go
on the record on a bipartisan bill which everybody agreed was a
positive step--unfortunately, only four Republicans went
forward with it.
And, second, when it comes to the pull factor, I'd have to
just tell you, America is a pull factor. America is the
incentive for people wanting to come to this country. We should
respond with good laws that keep us safe, number one, but
number two, have an orderly process for immigration. I think
that goes without saying. But the notion that we're going to
somehow discourage America from being a magnet for people--it
has always been a magnet for people. We are a Nation of
immigrants. Let's do it in an orderly way, and for goodness
sakes, let's not hold those protected by DACA today responsible
for every problem in the immigration system.
Senator Cornyn. Mr. Chairman, if I can respond just
briefly, the problem is not passing new laws. The problem is
enforcing laws that are already on the books. I have zero
confidence that if we were to pass the bill that was negotiated
between Senator Murphy and Senator Lankford and others that the
Biden administration would suddenly have an epiphany and say,
hey, we better enforce the law. That's not going to happen.
Chair Durbin. Well, Senator----
Senator Cornyn. So, that's the main problem--is an
administration that refuses to enforce the law. We can pass all
the laws we want. If the administration refuses to enforce
them, we're going to be in the same place we're in now.
Chair Durbin. The Senator from Texas has never voted for a
bipartisan immigration bill. He has an approach to this which
is not going to end with solving the problems we're facing. I
hope he'll join the effort. I was prepared to stand behind
Senator Lankford, a Republican Senator, and the majority of
Democrats were, as well, even though there were provisions in
there which I didn't like at all. You have to be prepared to
make concessions, to make progress.
Senator Cornyn. Mr. Chairman, you know that's a----
Chair Durbin. Before we----
Senator Cornyn [continuing]. Low blow. I come from a border
State. This is ground zero for my State and my people, not
folks that live in Chicago, though you're experiencing some of
the consequences of that. But suggesting that I have been
unwilling to negotiate and engage in good-faith negotiations on
immigration policy is a lie, and you know it, because I've been
there at the table with you and Senator Graham and others for
many, many years, and I resent the fact that you decided to
impugn my integrity by suggesting I had no interest in a
solution. That is a false statement, and you know it.
Chair Durbin. The Lankford roll call will speak for itself.
Before we turn to our witnesses, let me lay out the mechanics
for the rest of today's hearing. After I swear in the
witnesses, they'll each have 5 minutes to testify. Then
there'll be a round of questions. Each Senator will have 5
minutes to speak. Please remain within your allotted time.
Today, we welcome five witnesses. I'll introduce the
majority witnesses, and Ranking Member Graham will introduce
the minority witnesses. Our first witness is Officer Mitchell
Soto-Rodriguez. She is a police officer from Blue Island,
Illinois. As I shared on the Senate floor in December, Officer
Soto-Rodriguez is a DACA recipient who's lived in the United
States since she was 9 years old. She graduated magna cum laude
from Governors State University in Illinois in December 2022.
Next week, the Committee will mark National Police Week, when
we honor our law enforcement officers, so it is fitting that
you are here today. Officer Soto-Rodriguez, thank you for
joining us.
Our second witness is Tom Wong, an associate professor of
political science and the founding director of the U.S.
Immigration Policy Center at University of California in San
Diego. He has fielded a national survey to analyze the
experience of DACA recipients in the past 9 years. And thank
you for being here, Professor.
Finally, we welcome back to the Committee Maria Gabriela
Pacheco, the president and chief executive officer of TheDream,
a nonprofit organization that provides scholarships to Dreamers
since they are ineligible for Federal student aid. Ms. Pacheco
is an immigration rights leader who first testified before
Congress in April 2013, 11 years ago, at a hearing on
comprehensive immigration reform. I first met Gaby more than 14
years ago, and in 2010 she led the Trail of Dreams, a 4-month
walk from Miami to Washington, DC--some walk--to highlight the
plight of Dreamers. Gaby put Dreamers on the National political
agenda and inspired me to ask President Obama to establish
DACA. She became a naturalized citizen last year.
Congratulations. Welcome back, and thanks for your leadership.
Ranking Member Graham, would you like to introduce your
witnesses?
Senator Graham. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have Tammy
Nobles. She is a realtor from Norfolk, Virginia. She volunteers
part-time as the president of the Down Syndrome Association of
Hampton Roads. She is the mother of Kayla Hamilton, and she'll
tell us about that story. And she joins us today to share her
story. And I know it's difficult, but thank you so much.
Chair Durbin. At this point, I'd ask the witnesses to stand
and be sworn, please. If you'd raise your----
Senator Graham. I'm sorry. Wait. Jessica Vaughan--sorry
about that, Jessica--is director of policy studies for the
Center for Immigration Studies. She's been at the Center since
1992. She is an expert on immigration policy, including
immigration enforcement, border security, visa programs,
benefits, public safety. She received her master's from
Georgetown and a bachelor's degree from Washington College in
Maryland. Thank you, Ms. Vaughan.
Chair Durbin. If the witnesses would please stand and raise
their right hand.
Do you affirm that the testimony you will give before the
Committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth so help you God?
[Witnesses are sworn in.]
Chair Durbin. Let the record reflect all the witnesses have
answered in the affirmative. Officer Soto-Rodriguez, you may
proceed with your opening statement. Make sure you have the
button engaged. I don't think your microphone's on yet. I don't
think your microphone's on yet.
Senator Graham. You might want to push it toward your--yes.
Is the light on?
Chair Durbin. Pull the microphone a little closer to you.
There you go. Not working.
[Technical issue.]
Chair Durbin. If you----
Senator Graham. Put a quarter in it.
Chair Durbin. If you could ask Ms. Vaughan to share her
microphone--is it possible to move it?
Senator Graham. It's broken.
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. All right.
Chair Durbin. There it is.
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. Thank you so much.
ChairDurbin. Thank you.
STATEMENT OF MITCHELL SOTO-RODRIGUEZ,
POLICE OFFICER, BLUE ISLAND POLICE
DEPARTMENT, BLUE ISLAND, ILLINOIS
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. Good morning. Thank you, Chair
Durbin, Ranking Member Graham, for the opportunity to testify
today. I am Officer Mitchell J. Soto-Rodriguez, and I am
grateful for the opportunity to share my journey as a DACA
recipient, now proudly as a police officer serving the city of
Blue Island, Illinois. When I was 9 years old, my parents made
a tough decision on my behalf to uproot our family from Mexico,
seeking a better future for us in the United States. I remember
the moment we joined my father in Blue Island, marking the
beginning of our new life. However, that transition was
challenging, from navigating language barriers to experiencing
the uncertainty of undocumented status.
Each obstacle shaped my path. My journey was not easy. I
have experienced incredible moments like buying our first
American home and expanding our family. I have also lived
through incredibly difficult times. I was denied my driver's
license because I didn't have papers, and I had to watch my
parents sleep in a car after my dad wasn't able to find a job.
My sophomore year of high school, my mom, little sister, and I
were struck by a car while driving. We were afraid because we
were undocumented, but the police officer who came to the scene
showed compassion. The moment inspired me to serve in law
enforcement. In pursuing my dream, I encountered a lot of
challenges along the way.
In 2012, when President Obama announced Deferred Action for
Childhood Arrivals, known as DACA, my life changed again. A
huge door opened to continue pursuing my goals. DACA was the
key for me to continue my education and get a job after high
school. I worked two jobs and continued my education. I
attended Moraine Valley Community College. I graduated with
associate's degrees in criminal justice and liberal arts. Based
on the degrees and the career I wanted, I got a scholarship and
attended Lewis University.
Despite working hard and getting good grades, I couldn't
pursue my dream because of my status. I wasn't eligible for
financial aid, so I had to leave Lewis University to help my
sister attend school. Even though I had a scholarship, I still
needed to pay $9,000 out of my pocket per semester. Having a
work permit was a blessing. At the same time, my status was
holding me back from getting into my dream job. For a long
time, I could not apply to be a police officer because of my
DACA status. I realized that I might not be able to work in law
enforcement, but I did not give up.
In 2019, I registered at Governors State University to
complete my bachelor's degree in criminal justice. While
attending school, I was working full time. I was able to manage
my time and do homework and attend classes. I got a job at a
high school, the same high school I attended to. Through that
job, I worked closely with the police department, and I met
Chief Farr and Commander Sepessy of the Blue Island Police
Department. In May 2022, I graduated magna cum laude. Chief
Farr asked me why I had not applied to be a police officer, and
I told him it was because I had DACA. He advocated for Blue
Island to change its rules and hire DACA recipients as police
officers.
Finally, in 2023, Mayor Fred Bilotto and the city council
changed the rules. Once I heard the news, I submitted the
application right away and got hired as a part-time police
officer. On February 14, 2023, I got sworn in and I started
training in the part-time academy. This year, I finally
completed my training, passed the test, and got hired as a
full-time police officer for Blue Island. Now, I know two other
DACA recipients who are training to be police officers, and now
that I am a police officer, I know how much we need them.
Having DACA allows us to become successful in life and to
make a difference in the country that has seen us grow up. For
many of us, the country that we come from is just in our
memories. The only country we know is here, where we stay. This
is our home, the country that many of us serve proudly. If DACA
recipients had a pathway to citizenship, it would be in favor
of the economy of the country, because we would still support
the country without fear. If DACA one day is going to get
removed, all of our lives will go back into limbo, and we will
not be able to continue with our current jobs or education.
The economic and social benefits of fully integrating
Dreamers into the communities will be a massive boost for our
families, communities, and country, who all have come to see
our contributions over the 12-plus years of DACA protections.
All we want is to pursue our dreams without fear of deportation
or discrimination. As a police officer, I understand the
importance of safety and security; however, even in uniform,
I'm reminded of the limitations imposed by DACA status. If DACA
were to end, my career in law enforcement will end, and I love
being a police officer. I would lose everything, my job and
probably even my home. I wouldn't be able to support my family
financially.
Senators, I urge you to consider the human stories behind
the policy debates. Behind each statistic is a Dreamer with
hopes, dreams, and aspirations. We're not asking for handouts.
We're asking for recognition of our humanity and our
contribution to this Nation. Congress, I put my life on the
line for this country every day. I am ready to become a citizen
of this great Nation. Thank you for listening.
[The prepared statement of Officer Soto-Rodriguez appears
as a submission for the record.]
Chair Durbin. Thank you, Officer. Ms. Vaughan.
STATEMENT OF JESSICA M. VAUGHAN,
DIRECTOR OF POLICY STUDIES, CENTER
FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES, WASHINGTON, DC
Ms. Vaughan. Thank you. Last month, nearly 180,000 people
crossed our border illegally. More are on the way, on planes,
trains, boats, and on foot, and they keep coming because, under
Biden administration policies, the vast majority are being
released into the country with the opportunity to remain for
years, possibly even with a work permit. Another 45,000 got-
aways arrived after evading apprehension. Another 44,000
inadmissible aliens were allowed to enter in March under the
administration's unlawful parole programs, including via the
CBP One appointment system. Also in March, six illegal border
crossers were apprehended who were hits on the terror
watchlist. All told, nearly seven million illegal, inadmissible
aliens have been allowed to enter since the start of this
administration. This has created some serious, urgent problems
around the country.
In Massachusetts, for example, lawmakers are struggling to
find the money to cover the $915 million price tag for the
emergency shelter system, alone, for 1 year, because of the
influx of illegal migrants. This doesn't include the cost of
schooling, medical care, and other services they need. In
Montana, leaders of Tribal communities have defied death
threats from Mexican drug cartels to appear in the media and
before Congress to plead for help with the devastating influx
of cartel drug trafficking operations in Indian Country that
they say is due to the open-border policies, and they are
asking why the illegal migrants are getting more attention and
funding than their communities of First Americans.
Throughout the country, we've seen a new wave of disturbing
incidents of child labor trafficking and other abuse involving
thousands of unaccompanied minors who were smuggled here and
released to unvetted, nonparental sponsors, many to end up
working on car part assembly lines, poultry processing plants,
or in abusive domestic servitude or even sex trafficking. On
top of the mass catch-and-release policies at the border, the
Biden administration has dismantled interior immigration
enforcement to the point where even many criminal illegal
aliens are often protected from deportation and remain here,
free to prey on new victims.
Arrests and removals of criminal aliens are less than half
of what it was prior to 2021, and some of the worst-case
scenarios resulting from these policies have already happened,
which we'll hear a little bit more about today. Just a few
weeks ago, one of these released migrants was charged with
aggravated rape of a disabled 15-year-old girl at a Comfort Inn
in Rockland, Massachusetts that was being used as a shelter for
newly arrived migrants. He reportedly came directly from Haiti
in June 2023 under the unlawful CHNV parole program, supposedly
with a sponsor in New Jersey.
Less than a week ago, a citizen of Guatemala was arrested
in Lake Worth, Florida, accused of snatching an 11-year-old
girl off the street and raping her in his van. He crossed the
border illegally in January, was released, and went to Florida
with an immigration court date scheduled in 2027. In at least
four cases I know of, border patrol agents have released men
who were hits on the terror watch list. These are just a few
snapshots of the consequences of the current policies.
This is at the top of the minds of public safety officials,
State lawmakers, and municipal leaders that I speak with all
over the country. It's also the top issue for voters. According
to the most recent Gallup poll for the third consecutive month,
immigration is considered to be the most important problem
facing the United States, and that's the longest sustained
stretch for this to be the top problem issue in the last 24
years. The arguments for a DACA amnesty or any amnesty might be
more compelling if we had not just gone through 3 years of an
uncontrolled border and did not just have to absorb six or
seven million new illegal migrants.
The Immigration and Nationality Act, in its current form,
is sufficient to put an end to this crisis, if only it were
enforced and fully applied. The Biden administration is
choosing to wave in inadmissible aliens every day, instead of
preventing illegal entry; choosing to process benefits for
these migrants instead of for citizens and legal immigrant
applications; choosing to flood the immigration courts with
long-shot asylum cases; choosing to leave ICE detention beds
empty, rather than allow ICE to do its job; choosing to abandon
worksite enforcement. Reversing these choices would bring about
an end to the crisis and restore America's faith in our legal
immigration system. That also needs some reform, but we simply
don't have the ability to have a discussion about that until
this other crisis is solved.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Vaughan appears as a
submission for the record.]
Chair Durbin. Thank you, Ms. Vaughan. Professor Wong.
STATEMENT OF TOM K. WONG, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR
OF POLITICAL SCIENCE/DIRECTOR U.S. IMMIGRATION
POLICY CENTER, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA,
SAN DIEGO, SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA
Professor Wong. Thank you, Chair Durbin and Ranking Member
Graham, for the opportunity to testify today about the positive
impact that providing a pathway to citizenship for Dreamers can
have on American society and the economy. My name is Tom Wong,
and I'm an associate professor of political science and
founding director of the U.S. Immigration Policy Center at UC
San Diego. I'm an expert on immigration politics and policies
and have published multiple books and dozens of articles and
policy reports on these topics.
A pathway to citizenship for Dreamers will significantly
improve the American economy. Undocumented young people already
contribute to the economy by paying taxes. A pathway to
citizenship would allow undocumented young people to
participate more fully and more productively in the labor
force. More specifically, a pathway to citizenship would
increase employment among undocumented young people from an
estimated 40 percent to over 90 percent. These employment gains
would also be met with wage gains, which accrue to undocumented
young people as they are able to adjust their immigration
status. All together, these employment and wage gains suggest
that a pathway to citizenship for Dreamers would add $2.5
billion per year in additional State and local tax revenue.
This is a conservative estimate, as new research on DACA
recipients, including my own, shows that the economic impact of
DACA has outperformed most economic models. Another estimate
shows that a pathway to citizenship for undocumented young
people could lead to an estimated $799 billion increase in
gross domestic product over a decade. More generally, a recent
Congressional Budget Office estimate projects that immigrant
workers will add an additional seven trillion to the U.S.
economy over the next decade and an extra one trillion in
Federal tax revenue.
So, DACA shows us how providing permanent protections to
undocumented young people can benefit American society and the
economy more generally. DACA has been one of the most
successful immigrant integration policies that the U.S. has
ever seen. I have researched the impact of DACA since its
creation. Work authorization has allowed DACA recipients to
participate more fully and more productively in the labor
force.
For example, approximately 59 percent of the DACA
recipients that we recently surveyed reported moving to a job
with better pay because of DACA. Approximately 47 percent
reported moving to a job with better working conditions.
Approximately 48 percent reported moving to a job that, quote,
``better fits their education and training.'' Approximately 50
percent reported moving to a job that, quote, ``better fits
their long-term career goals.'' Approximately 20 percent
reported that they obtained professional licenses, and
approximately 10 percent reported that DACA allowed them to
start their own businesses.
Importantly, as the country grappled with the global
pandemic, an estimated 343,000 DACA recipients worked in jobs
that were deemed essential by the Department of Homeland
Security. Moreover, nearly a decade of surveying DACA
recipients has shown that DACA has had a significant and
positive effect on wages. Because of DACA, average hourly wages
have more than doubled, from $11.92 to $31.52 and 52 cents per
hour, an increase of 164 percent. Increased wages are
beneficial for recipients, their families, and the U.S.
economy. With higher earnings, DACA recipients pay more in
taxes and are able to spend more.
In 2022, DACA recipients earned an estimated $27.9 billion
in wages and contributed nearly $2.1 billion to Social Security
and Medicare. Moreover, in 2021, DACA recipients paid an
estimated $6.2 billion in Federal taxes and $3.3 billion in
State and local taxes. But the legal attacks on DACA mean that
the futures and the livelihoods of hundreds of thousands of
people are uncertain. Without DACA, approximately 58 percent of
the DACA recipients that we recently surveyed reported that
they would be less likely to continue their education, and
approximately 63 percent reported that they would be less
likely to pursue new educational opportunities.
Among DACA recipients who are parents, approximately 71
percent reported that they think about, quote, ``being
separated from their children because of deportation at least
once a day or more,'' and approximately 68 percent reported
thinking about, quote, ``not being able to see their children
grow up because of deportation at least once a day or more.''
All together, nine out of every ten DACA recipients reported
concerns about their or their families' physical safety,
ability to access health care or education, the risk of food
insecurity, or the risk of homelessness if they no longer had
DACA and were deported.
Dreamers need permanent protections so that their
integration success stories continue. Without permanent
protections, not only will their American dreams end, but
American society and the economy would be worse off if we
turned our backs on this cohort of young people who are
American in every sense of the word except on paper. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Professor Wong appears as a
submission for the record.]
Chair Durbin. Thank you, Professor Wong. Ms. Nobles.
STATEMENT OF TAMMY NOBLES, NORFOLK, VIRGINIA
Ms. Nobles. Thank you for having me here today. My name is
Tammy Nobles, and I am the mother of Kayla Hamilton. July 24,
2002 was one of the best days of my life. I gave birth to a
beautiful baby girl and named her Kayla Marie. She loved to
laugh and smile. She treasured her friends and family and never
forgot anyone. She was kind, caring, thoughtful, funny, and
human. She loved life and God. But, sadly, on July 27, 2022, I
received the worst news that a parent doesn't want to hear,
that my newly 20-year-old daughter, Kayla Hamilton, was
murdered in her own room and left on the floor like trash.
At the end of March 2022, Kayla's murderer was apprehended
at the--at the border, crossing illegally into the U.S. at the
southwest border in Rio Grande City, Texas. He was a 16-year-
old known gang member affiliated with MS-13 in El Salvador. He
entered the country as an unaccompanied alien child and told
Homeland Security that he was in fear of his life because of
the gang activity in El Salvador. Department of Homeland
Security did not check his body or make that one phone call to
El Salvador to check his background. Department of Health and
Human Services did not verify the sponsor before allowing him
into the U.S.
As a UAC, the murderer was allowed to go live with this
unverified sponsor who lived in Frederick, Maryland. There were
behavioral issues with him living with his sponsor, so he was
freely allowed to go live with his half brother, who lived in
the same neighborhood as Kayla and her boyfriend. A short time
later, behavioral issues started again, and the half brother
did not want him living there. The half brother called the
leasing office, who were also the owners of the many mobile
homes in the neighborhood--if she had any rooms for rent.
Sadly, she allowed this underage MS-13 gang member to rent a
room in the same mobile home as Kayla and her boyfriend, along
with another family.
Kayla's murderer was living there less than 5 days before
he viciously murdered my daughter. Kayla had autism, but she
was determined to live independently and make her way in this
world. And my baby paid the ultimate price. She'd just gotten
off work at the night shift. She kissed her boyfriend goodbye
that morning, and she went to sleep. The murderer broke into
Kayla's room, scaring her. Kayla grabbed her phone and called
her boyfriend, but it went to voicemail. The murderer grabbed
her iPod charger and wrapped it tightly around her throat and
face while strangling her to death. The voicemail of the
murderer strangling Kayla was 2 minutes and 30 seconds long.
The murderer then violently sexually assaulted Kayla and just
left her on the floor. After he committed the crime, he went to
lunch with his half brother like nothing happened.
Kayla's boyfriend came home and found her dead on the
floor. The charger cord was so tightly wrapped around her neck
and face he had to use his teeth to get it off. Local police
didn't have enough evidence to arrest him, so they called ICE
to ask if they could hold him until the DNA results came back,
because of the flight risk. ICE refused. So, the Aberdeen
Police Department had no choice but to call Child Protective
Services, and they have asked Child Protective Services to put
him in a secured location. It was later found out that Child
Protective Services put him in an unsecured location in a
children's home with other children, knowing of the violent
crime that he committed.
How many youths were let in that were just like Kayla's
murderer? With the failed and neglected vetting and background
checks, we have no idea who we are allowing in. Not all are
innocent children seeking the American dream. Some are
criminals and are here to destroy American lives. For me, this
is not a political issue. This is safety issues for everyone
living in the United States. This could have been anyone's
daughter. I don't want any other parent to live the nightmare
that I am living.
I am her voice now, and I'm going to fight with everything
I have to get her story told and to bring awareness of the
issues at the border. If we had stricter border policies, my
daughter would still be alive today. Nothing will bring back my
daughter nor fix the pain of not having her here, but I want to
prevent this from happening to someone else's child. This isn't
about immigration. This is about protecting everyone here in
the United States.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Nobles appears as a
submission for the record.]
Chair Durbin. Thank you, Ms. Nobles.
Ms. Nobles. Thank you.
Chair Durbin. I'm sorry for the loss of your daughter. Ms.
Pacheco.
STATEMENT OF MARIA GABRIELA ``GABY'' PACHECO,
CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, THEDREAM.US, MIAMI, FLORIDA
Ms. Pacheco. Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member Graham, and
esteemed Members of this Committee, the last time I stood
before this Committee was over a decade ago. A decade. Ten
years ago, I was undocumented and had just received DACA.
Today, I stand before you as a proud naturalized United States
citizen, representing not just my own journey but the hopes and
aspiration of millions like me. Dreamers who, despite the
challenges we face, continue to believe in the America's
promise. As a Dreamer who came to this country at the age of
eight, I never imagined I would've had the opportunity to stand
here as a citizen of the United States.
It was through perseverance, determination, and marrying my
college sweetheart that I was able to navigate the complex path
to citizenship, a 10-year journey marked by uncertainty but
also by hope and resilience. I will never forget the day of my
citizenship ceremony, standing alongside 60 immigrants from 21
countries, reciting the oath of allegiance with tears in my
eyes, knowing that I was finally recognized as a fellow
American. It was a moment of profound gratitude and humility, a
testament to the enduring spirit of justice and opportunity of
this Nation, yet amidst this appreciation was my humble
recognition of how lucky I was. For the vast majority of
Dreamers in America, they don't have a similar opportunity.
As the president and CEO of TheDream.US, the Nation's
largest college and career success scholarship program for
Dreamers, I've had the privilege of witnessing the
transformative power of education, helping over 10,000 of our
scholars access higher education. More than 4,000 of our
scholars are now college graduates, and 94 percent of those
with DACA and TPS are working. Two-thirds are in business,
health and medicine, and education. They are the embodiment of
the American dream. The average age of arrival among
TheDream.US scholars is just 4 years old. They did their entire
schooling here and graduated from our schools, and yet their
futures hang in the balance, their dreams deferred by political
gridlock and bureaucratic inertia.
The over 800 Dreamers who benefited from DACA wasted no
time in seizing the opportunity this program gave them. They
went to college, joined the military, and in 2020 became
essential workers in the front lines of our country's COVID-19
response. Unfortunately, for Dreamers with and without DACA,
their future remains uncertain. Those with DACA--their dreams
are overshadowed by the fear of the legal challenges to the
program, and those without DACA feel anguished by the inability
to even apply. This academic year, we welcome our largest ever
cohort of new Dream.US scholars. Three-fourths of them lack
DACA status.
This is not just a policy issue. This is a profound moral
test of whether we hold true to the ideals we so proudly
proclaim. It is about the kind of Nation we want to be. One
that empowers the best and the brightest within its Nation or
one that squanders potential in favor of inaction. A decade has
passed since I last stood here before this Committee, and yet
the urgency of this moment has only grown. Senator Durbin,
Senator Graham, bless you both for your unwavering commitment
to the bipartisan Dream solutions. Let us honor the legacy of
those who came before us--Senator Orrin Hatch, Senator John
McCain, Senator Richard Lugar, Senator Harry Reid, and so many
others--by finally passing bipartisan DREAM legislation.
As I once walked 1,500 miles from Miami to Washington, DC,
to demonstrate not just my dedication but the love I have for
this country, today I stand before you asking you to walk
alongside us in a journey toward fairness and recognition. Let
us not wait for history to judge our actions, but let us be the
leaders who pave the way for a brighter future. I urge you with
the utmost respect and urgency to pass legislation that aligns
with our American ideals, for teachers, nurses, police
officers, for all of them to fully contribute to the Nation we
all dearly love and to which we belong, not just with our taxes
and labor but as recognized, respected, and legal Americans.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Pacheco appears as a
submission for the record.]
Chair Durbin. Thank you, Ms. Pacheco. I thank the members
of the panel for holding to the 5-minute rule. I hope the
Senators will, as well. We'll now go to questions, and I'll
start. Ms. Soto-Rodriguez, you were brought to the United
States from Mexico by your parents at the age of nine?
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. That's correct.
Chair Durbin. I'm not sure that----
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. That's correct.
Chair Durbin. All right. Do you remember that decision by
your family?
Ms. Soto-Rodriguez. No. I was told by my family that's the
decision they made.
Chair Durbin. And when you went to college at Moraine
Valley, as well as--was it Governors State or Lewis?
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. I first attended Moraine Valley.
Then I got a scholarship for Lewis University. Then I had to
leave Lewis due to economical--and then I attended Governors
State.
Chair Durbin. And were you eligible for Pell grants or
Federal assistance in your education?
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. No.
Chair Durbin. How did you pay for it?
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. I had to work two jobs. As soon as
I left high school, I knew that I needed to help out to
continue my education, so I paid out of my pocket.
Chair Durbin. And when DACA was created, you applied right
from the start?
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. That's correct.
Chair Durbin. Tell me what kind of background check you
faced under DACA.
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. I had to go, do my fingerprints,
just like any other background check that they do. I had to
complete an application, pay the fees, and wait for my
appointment for my fingerprints.
Chair Durbin. And each year when you renew, or each 2 years
when you renew your DACA, are you checked again?
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. Yes.
Chair Durbin. And did you go through background checks to
be on the police department of Blue Island?
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. That's correct. Twice.
Chair Durbin. Twice. And so, let me ask you this, if you
can address it. Do we have any shortages of law enforcement
personnel in this country, that you know of?
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. That's correct.
Chair Durbin. What have you seen?
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. Not many people want to work in law
enforcement, but that's all I can tell you, yes, right now.
Chair Durbin. All right. Well, I've been told by police
departments across our State that they're struggling to get
recruits, and I think that's the case. And so, if some of the
witnesses who testify want to eliminate the DACA program,
what's going to happen to you?
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. I would lose my job, the job that I
have fought so much for. And also I would lose probably even my
home, and I won't be able to support my family financially.
Chair Durbin. Ms. Vaughan, I'd like to ask you a question.
Your seatmate, there, has told a pretty compelling story about
what she's done, the sacrifices she's made to be a law
enforcement official. Do you really think America would be a
better country if she were deported?
Ms. Vaughan. No, I don't.
Chair Durbin. Neither do I. Mr. Wong, Professor Wong, when
it comes to the economic impact of the DACA program, we know
that there are people eligible under the original program to
apply for DACA but have been unable to because of a court
decision. Are you aware of that?
Professor Wong. Yes.
Chair Durbin. Have you projected if all eligible DACA
individuals were part of the economy, how that would change
your numbers on the impact?
Professor Wong. Yes. So, currently we estimate that all
Dreamers--so, DACA recipients as well as those that were
excluded from DACA--contribute an estimated $45 billion each
year to the economy in their wages and a combined $13 billion
in taxes.
Chair Durbin. Do they make contributions to Social Security
and Medicare?
Professor Wong. Yes. A 2022 estimate suggests that at least
DACA recipients contributed over $2 billion to Social Security
and Medicare.
Chair Durbin. And that helps the program remain liquid and
keep its obligations to American citizens----
Professor Wong. Yes, sir.
Chair Durbin [continuing]. You believe? Yes, it's certainly
obvious. Ms. Pacheco, I remember when I first met you. You'd
just finished walking from Miami. That's hard to forget. You've
been through this struggle for many years and been through it
personally. Congratulations on being a new citizen of this
country.
Ms. Pacheco. Thank you.
Chair Durbin. What message would you give to those who
believe that the failures and crisis at the border should be
held against those who are eligible for DACA?
Ms. Pacheco. We cannot wait. We can do both things at once.
I was there in 2018. I was devastated when I heard President
Trump tell the Senators that we shouldn't do a border Dreamer
amendment. We have had this issue for 20-some years. We need to
do something now.
Chair Durbin. Thank you very much. Senator Graham.
Senator Graham. Thank you, Ms. Pacheco. I appreciate you
coming, and we'll keep pushing, here. Are you concerned that if
we pass DACA tomorrow it would incentivize more illegal
immigration?
Ms. Pacheco. I'm not. It did not happen in----
Senator Graham. That's----
Ms. Pacheco [continuing]. 2020.
Senator Graham. That's fair. Ms. Vaughan, are you?
Ms. Vaughan. Yes, I am, because we do know from experience
that when Congress is talking about enacting an amnesty, when
there's this general discussion about----
Senator Graham. It goes around the world.
Ms. Vaughan. It goes around the world. I mean, look how
many people know our policies.
Senator Graham. I got you. I got you. How many children 4
years old have come to the country in the last 3 years, Mr.
Wong, illegally, brought by their parents?
Professor Wong. There are approximately 600,000
undocumented young people under the age of 18, and a----
Senator Graham. In the last 3 years?
Professor Wong [continuing]. Small percentage--no, under
18, and a small percentage of those----
Senator Graham. No, I'm asking you how many people under 18
have been brought to the United States by their parents in the
least 3 years.
Professor Wong. Based on ACS projections, we can guess
approximately 60,000.
Senator Graham. Sixty thousand?
Professor Wong. Yes.
Senator Graham. Of the nine or ten million----
Professor Wong. No, 60,000.
Senator Graham [continuing]. Are minors?
Professor Wong. So, based on ACS data--so, this is
excluding those encounters.
Senator Graham. So, how many unaccompanied minors have we
had in this country in the last 3 years?
Professor Wong. I do not know.
Senator Graham. Was it 400,000, John? What was it?
Unaccompanied minors. Four hundred thousand. Ms. Nobles, the
man accused of killing your daughter--was he an unaccompanied
minor?
Ms. Nobles. Yes. He was.
Senator Graham. Would we all agree America would've been
better off if he had not been allowed to come here?
Ms. Nobles. Kayla would've----
Senator Graham. I just assume----
Ms. Nobles [continuing]. Been better off.
Senator Graham [continuing]. Everybody says yes. So, they
indicted this man today. He's innocent until proven guilty.
This is Mr. Ibarra. He was paroled into the country, along with
millions of other people, but he is paroled due to the
detention capacity at the central processing center in El Paso.
That's the man facing murder charges of Ms. Laken Riley. He was
just waved into the country. You went through a lot, Ms.
Rodriguez. You have a lot to be proud of. We check who you are,
and, you know, you've made a lot out of your life here. Nobody
even gave this guy the time of day.
So, now, Gaby, I admire you very much, but I am completely
convinced if we gave legalization to anybody, until we stop
this stuff, we're just going to be overrun. And, you know,
here's the dilemma. You have very bright, hardworking people
that I want to help, that have been here for years, but now
you've got tens of thousands of new three-, four-, 9-year-olds.
Are they going to get DACA, too? Mr. Wong? Anybody that's been
here for the last 3 years as a 4-year-old--they're seven now--
should they be allowed to be considered DACA of the future?
Professor Wong. DACA had residency requirements to
explicitly address that potential pull.
Senator Graham. So, would you recommend we tell them they
can't stay?
Professor Wong. So, that's what we have done, historically.
So, with DACA----
Senator Graham. Oh, so it's okay to----
Professor Wong [continuing]. We told recently----
Senator Graham [continuing]. Tell these four-and 9-year-
olds, you can't stay?
Professor Wong. Well, sir, I didn't make DACA, but DACA did
not allow individuals who recently----
Senator Graham. Yes. So----
Professor Wong [continuing]. Arrived to enroll in the
program.
Senator Graham [continuing]. I guess my point is, where
does it stop? There'll be a group, very sharp 9-year-old child
that's been here 3 years, and three will turn into five, and
five will turn into ten, and we'll have this all over again.
It's not that I don't want to help. I just don't want to do
anything that's going to throw gasoline on a fire.
We've had almost over two million people paroled. I just
want to let people know that if President Trump wins, I
predict--I'm not going to speak for him--but unless you really
truly have a unique benefit to the country or an unusual
humanitarian situation, you're going to be kicked out. There're
millions of people here who've just been waved into the
country. They don't--Ms. Vaughan, has the parole statute been
abused?
Ms. Vaughan. Yes, it has been.
Senator Graham. Yes. So, you're talking about trying to
help people that are deserving, and you just can't convince me
that it's not going to lead to a bigger run on the border. And
the biggest fear I have right now is that if we don't get
control over the parole system, the unaccompanied minor system,
the stories of Laken Riley and Ms. Nobles are just going to
grow and grow and grow. And, Mr. Chairman, I have been
sitting--we sit at a table, and I've been pushing back--and
I'll end. I never dreamed it would get this bad. And to expect
me or anybody else to engage in legalization in the middle of
complete chaos is just a bridge too far.
Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator. Senator Hirono.
Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We've had many
hearings relating to the need for comprehensive immigration
reform, and I want to acknowledge the work that--Senators
Graham and the Chairman of this Committee worked together in
2013, when we did deal with comprehensive immigration reform.
So, we all understand how complex--complex our immigration
system is and that it is broken. So, it is not just a matter
of, we need to help the DACA recipients, the Dreamers, and all
of the other issues that have been brought.
This morning, we acknowledged the need--I acknowledged the
need for comprehensive immigration reform. At the same time, we
have millions--literally over a million Dreamers. We had, at
one time, 800,000 DACA participants or recipients. We have
maybe about 500,000 of them now. And DACA has had impact in
every State in the country, including Hawaii. We have 320
active DACA recipients in Hawaii, and frankly, at a time when
just about every industry, every organization, including the
police departments across our country, are in need of workers,
it makes little sense to me that we are not going to enact
legislation that is going to enable the DACA recipients to stay
in our country and not get--and I would say most of them are
working and contributing to our economy, clearly, as Professor
Wong has pointed out. So, it makes little sense to me that we
are going to subject these hundreds of thousands of DACA
recipients and Dreamers to deportation.
Let me get back to Stephanie. Stephanie moved to the U.S.
when she was three and grew up in Lahaina, Maui. She graduated
from the University of Hawaii with an undergraduate degree, and
she went on to get a law degree from the University of Hawaii's
Richardson School of Law. She is now clerking for a Hawaii
First Circuit judge, and she hopes to work in immigration law
because she has seen the unfortunate reality of our Nation's
broken immigration system. Stephanie's story is inspiring but
not unique. Between 2013 and 2022, DACA recipients like
Stephanie paid $84 million in Federal taxes and $41 million in
State and local taxes. And if we give DACA or Dreamers a
pathway to citizenship, in Hawaii alone, they could earn $1.6
billion in wages while contributing hundreds of millions in
taxes in the next 10 years.
Clearly, they have a huge economic impact in our country.
They have paid their fair share, they have helped the economy
grow, and they have enriched our communities. And it's, of
course, past time that we, once again--as we did in 2013, when
so many of us--I certainly worked on the comprehensive
immigration reform bill in 2013, when so many of us worked on
supporting DACA participants, so it's time we did that.
I do have a question for Ms. Pacheco. Thank you very much
for your perseverance. Growing up as an immigrant--I too grew
up in a situation where I didn't have health insurance--my
greatest fear was my mother would get sick and therefore not go
to work--be able to go to work. And no work is--you know, you
don't have money to pay the rent or put food on the table. So,
having health insurance, I realized, is a critical part of
enabling all of us to have a stable life. So, the Biden
administration has a rule or is putting forth a rule that would
enable DACA recipients to be able to participate in obtaining
health insurance. Can you talk a little bit about how having
health insurance really was a hugely critical thing for you?
Ms. Pacheco. Sure. Thank you, Senator. When I was able to
get DACA, I got employed and was able to get health insurance.
And during a routine checkup, it actually was detected that I
had cancer. Unfortunately--fortunately, I was able to get
treatment. Unfortunately, the treatment left me with a lot of
complications today that--unfortunately I cannot get pregnant.
I believe that if I would have had health care beforehand and
we would've detected it earlier, I would be in a different
situation today.
Senator Hirono. Professor Wong, you have a lot of
statistics about the economic impact of DACA and enabling the
many Dreamers to participate in our economy. Would you agree
that providing these people health care is a critical part of
enabling them to stay in the workforce and to have stable
family and lives?
Professor Wong. Yes, absolutely.
Senator Hirono. So, of course, you would support the Biden
administration's rule that would enable them to participate in
health care?
Professor Wong. Yes. What we find is approximately one-
quarter of DACA recipients currently do not have any kind of
health insurance coverage, so coverage through the ACA would
significantly benefit DACA recipients.
Senator Hirono. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Chair Durbin. Senator Hirono. Senator Cornyn.
Senator Cornyn. Ms. Vaughan, can you help me confirm my
memory, which is that back when President Obama talked about
the Dreamers, that he acknowledged repeatedly that he did not
have the legal authority to do what he ultimately did? Is that
your recollection, as well?
Ms. Vaughan. Yes, it is. And--yes.
Senator Cornyn. And so, now we find that Federal judges,
both in Houston and the Fifth Circuit, have agreed with
President Obama that he did not have the authority to provide
this deferred action on childhood arrivals, correct?
Ms. Vaughan. That's right, and a Federal judge in Dallas,
as well, even before those cases.
Senator Cornyn. And so here we are, 12 years after the
fact, when President Obama said he didn't have the authority to
do this, and now these Federal judges have said, yes, you're
right, you didn't have that authority. And we are--these young
people, who admittedly came here as children, through no fault
of their own find themselves in legal limbo, correct?
Ms. Vaughan. Correct.
Senator Cornyn. So, just to correct the record, also--
Senator Durbin said that I've never voted for any bill that
provided for relief for Dreamers--I would point him to the
Secure and Succeed Act, which I voted for in 2018. It was in
the context of a much larger, comprehensive immigration reform
bill. But we find the situation much different today, with the
border on fire.
I want to follow-up a little more with you, Ms. Vaughan,
about what the--the border patrol has always told me that the
thing you need to keep in mind is that there are push factors
and pull factors, or I should say push factors and pull
factors. So, Senator Durbin said the fact that we're America--
that's a pull factor. And I would agree with him. Everybody
wants to come to the United States. Who wouldn't? But the only
way we've been able to deal with this on a legal, orderly, and
humane system is through a legal immigration system, correct?
Ms. Vaughan. Correct. Yes.
Senator Cornyn. But the people who look to exploit our
vulnerabilities when it comes to the border and our immigration
system, like the criminal organizations that basically fly
people from all around the world, for money, to show up at our
border and claim asylum or parole--they see the policies of the
current administration as an enormous opportunity to make a lot
of money, and the migrants who take advantage of that are
seeing an enormous pull factor or magnet to come to the United
States, correct?
Ms. Vaughan. That's right. A lot of the migrants themselves
refer to it as Biden's invitation.
Senator Cornyn. So, what's the effect of--if Congress were
today--didn't do anything else but pass the Durbin bill
relating to Dreamers, we didn't do anything else, would that be
an additional pull factor?
Ms. Vaughan. Most definitely. People would be inspired to
turn themselves over to criminal smuggling organizations to try
to get here to benefit from that.
Senator Cornyn. And, Ms. Pacheco, congratulations on
navigating the maze of our immigration laws and getting--
becoming a naturalized citizen. That's what we should want for
everybody, to----
Ms. Pacheco. Yes.
Senator Cornyn [continuing]. Come through legal means. But
Senator Durbin's bill, his DREAM Act bill--it draws a line at
people who came after or more recently than 4 years. In other
words, it addresses people more than 4 years before enactment.
So, what do we do with those who've come more recently?
Ms. Pacheco. Senator, we work on the DREAM Act and then
work on a comprehensive immigration reform that brings our
antiquated, broken immigration system into existence that we
don't have today.
Senator Cornyn. Well, you know as well as I know that we've
been--we have never failed to fail when it comes to
comprehensive immigration reform. The whole time I've been here
in the Senate, we've talked about it. It's like a unicorn.
People claim it exists, but nobody's ever seen it. And that is
a tragedy for everybody involved and for the rest of the
country, too. But if we leave out some of the people who would
otherwise qualify because of Senator Durbin's bill, that's okay
with you? Or not?
Ms. Pacheco. I believe in this body, and I believe that
this body will be fair and will be able to find the laws and
the right policies to include as many people as possible.
Senator Cornyn. Thank you. My time's up.
Chair Durbin. Senator Klobuchar.
Senator Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Senator Durbin. And
I wanted to clarify, I guess, with you, Professor Wong, one
more thing. When we're talking about Dreamers and people with
temporary status, TPS, and deferred forced departure, are we
talking about people seeking asylum at the southern border
right now? The bills----
Professor Wong. No, we are not.
Senator Klobuchar. Okay. And what, in fact, are we talking
about?
Professor Wong. We are talking about people who are
currently in the country who have grown up in this country who
have known nothing but this country. The DREAM Act population
is distinct from the flows that we're seeing at the southern
border.
Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Thank you. I guess I would start
with you, Ms. Pacheco. Thank you so much for your testimony. I
just want to use one example from my State, Carlos. He was
brought to the U.S. when he was 7 months old, and he discovered
when he was 11 that he was undocumented. And in high school, he
received numerous awards for academic excellence. He was
captain of the varsity soccer team. He earned a scholarship. He
attended Carleton College in Minnesota. He was granted DACA
status, and today he works at a law firm. And stories like his
are why I support a pathway to citizenship for Dreamers. They
know no other country. Can you talk about why this pathway is
so critical?
Ms. Pacheco. Well, it's critical not just for the DACA
recipients and those that are fully undocumented, for the
Dreamers, but it's also critical for our country. Today, we
have teachers, nurses, doctors, you name it, working and
supporting in our economy. What would it be if we were to lose
DACA in the middle of a school year, and an elementary school
teacher has to leave her classroom? That would be a detriment
not only to her but her children and the whole entire community
that depends on her to educate those kids.
Senator Klobuchar. Okay. And then I guess one example,
since you brought up police officers--Officer, I want to thank
you for your service. You've been here for 20 years. Next week
is Police Week, when we honor you and others who serve in
uniform. You testified that if DACA were to end, your career in
law enforcement would end. I'm well aware, carrying the COPS
bill, how much of a shortage we have right now in officers.
Beyond your service, there's just a shortage in retaining and
in getting officers and keeping them in the field. What has it
been like to live with this uncertainty, professionally? And
talk about why you chose law enforcement when you could choose
many other careers.
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. Like I mentioned in my story,
everything happened that day of the car accident, when my mom--
when I was with my mom and my little sister, that another
vehicle struck us where we were driving. The way the officer
explained to us everything and he talked to us--he could just
be like, I'm not going to help you, and just don't explain
anything. And by the fact that he knew that my mother did not
speak English and my English wasn't very well, he decided to
start speaking Spanish to us. So, by seeing that, that's what
encouraged me to be like, I want to be able to do the same. I
want to be able to help my community that I grew up with and
help the rest of the people here. So, that's why I chose to
become a police officer.
Senator Klobuchar. Did you ever meet that officer again and
tell him that he was your inspiration?
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. I have not seen him, but hopefully
one day I'll get to see him again, and I can let him know.
Senator Klobuchar. Okay.
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. Yes.
Senator Klobuchar. Professor Wong, in your testimony you
talked about the economic impact of Dreamers. One estimate--
Dreamers contribute an estimated $45 billion to the U.S.
economy through their wages and pay $13 billion annually in
taxes. You testified that, with a pathway to citizenship,
Dreamers would add $2.5 billion per year in additional State
and local tax revenue. Explain that and what these economic
consequences are.
Professor Wong. Yes. That $2.5 billion number is actually a
conservative estimate, so it assumes an 8.5 percent increase in
wages post-legalization. So, when we're thinking about
projecting economic benefits, we are thinking about what life
is like economically for an undocumented person versus somebody
who has legal status and can fully participate in the economy.
So, that $2.5 billion additional revenue per year is a
conservative estimate, because that 8.5 percent is on the very
low end of what we've seen DACA recipients produce. We actually
see that DACA recipients have increased wages up to 164
percent, so that means that the projected increase in revenue
could be significantly higher than existing economic
projections.
Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Thank you. And, Ms. Nobles, I'm so
sorry for your loss, and I'm a strong supporter of more
security at the border and hoping we can merge some of these
issues and get this done. Thank you.
Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Klobuchar. I'd like to
clarify one thing that is raised by Senator Cornyn about the
effective date of those--arrival in this country and
eligibility. I introduced the original DREAM Act, along with
Senator Hatch. We've changed the date of eligibility in various
versions of the bill, over the years. It never stated the same
starting dates. So, it's subject to change if it is considered,
and I hope it will be, by this Committee and by the Senate and
House of Representatives.
But today we're also discussing DACA, and I want to make a
point on the record. DACA applies only to immigrants who
entered before their 16th birthdays and who lived in the
country continuously since at least June 15, 2007. 2007. More
than a decade ago. No one entering now or any entered in the
last decade would be eligible for DACA, as we're talking about
it. So, if we extend and legalize DACA, that's the standard
that's being used at this point. Senator Kennedy, you're next.
Senator Kennedy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks to all
members of our panel for being here today. Ms. Nobles, I'm
sorry. I don't have a daughter. I have a son. If what happened
to your daughter happened to my son, I don't know if I could
ever recover. I don't know why bad things happen to good
people. If I make it to heaven, I'm going to ask. I'm sorry.
Ms. Nobles. Thank you.
Senator Kennedy. I don't know anybody in the U.S. Senate
who has worked harder to implement and control--well, let me
amend that--to implement an immigration policy that looks like
somebody designed it on purpose than Senator John Cornyn. The
problem we've had in the last 3 years is that, except until
recently, when it became a political issue, President Biden
just didn't care. And sometimes when a person acts like he
doesn't care, it's not an act. And that's why we have way more,
Professor Wong, than 60,000 minors, many of whom are being--are
being trafficked, sexually trafficked, today in our country.
And I suspect you know that. Professor Wong, you're a professor
from California. Is that right?
Professor Wong. Yes.
Senator Kennedy. And you were invited here as an expert
today by our Democratic colleagues?
Professor Wong. Yes.
Senator Kennedy. Okay. You're on the board of directors of
the California Immigrant Policy Center. Is that right?
Professor Wong. Yes, it is.
Senator Kennedy. And I'm looking at your website. You and
the Center believe--I want to quote, if that's okay. According
to you and the Center, quote, ``the immigration enforcement
system is built on white supremacy, economic exploitation, and
criminalization and must be dismantled,'' end quote. Is that
correct?
Professor Wong. I'm not aware of that statement.
Senator Kennedy. Here it is, right from your website, and
you're on the board of directors. Do you believe that our
immigration system is built on white supremacy?
Professor Wong. No, sir.
Senator Kennedy. Well, you said it, Professor. Now, did you
lie here, or are you lying to us today?
Professor Wong. No, I did not write that statement. I'm on
the board of directors of an organization called the California
Immigrant Policy Center that advocates for legislation changes
in the State of California, to improve the lives of immigrants.
I'm not aware of that statement.
Senator Kennedy. Well, you ought to go look at your
website.
Professor Wong. But are you talking about my personal
website?
Senator Kennedy. I'm talking about the California Immigrant
Policy Center----
Professor Wong. Yes. I'm not aware of that statement----
Senator Kennedy [continuing]. On whose board you sit.
Professor Wong [continuing]. On the California Immigrant
Policy Center's website.
Senator Kennedy. You say that the immigration enforcement
system in America today is, quote, ``built on white
supremacy.''
Professor Wong. That's not my statement.
Senator Kennedy. Yes, it is. It's your----
Professor Wong. That's not my statement.
Senator Kennedy. You're on the board. It's built on
economic exploitation, and it's built on criminalization, and
it must be dismantled. You also say, you and the Center, that
you want to, quote, ``strategically push ICE out of our
communities across California,'' end quote. Wow.
Professor Wong. So, an extensive body of research shows
that interior immigration enforcement, to the extent that ICE
partners with local police, has chilling effects across
immigrant communities and their families.
Senator Kennedy. Did you--did you listen to Ms. Nobles'
testimony?
Professor Wong. Yes, I did, with great concern.
Senator Kennedy. Yes. You think getting rid of ICE is going
to help young women not be raped and murdered by MS-13 gang
members? Is that your answer to----
Professor Wong. No, that's not----
Senator Kennedy [continuing]. Bringing justice to Mrs.
Nobles' daughter----
Professor Wong. No.
Senator Kennedy [continuing]. Is to call her a white
supremacist and say that she believes in economically
exploiting people?
Professor Wong. No, that's not--you are attributing a
statement to me that I did not make.
Senator Kennedy. Yes, sir, you did. It's on your website.
Chair Durbin. Time has expired, Senator. I think it's
inappropriate to call people liars in this hearing. I hope that
we'll be very careful. The witnesses are under oath, and to say
that they are lying is to accuse them of something close to a
crime, and I think that term should be carefully used.
Senator Kennedy. Well, can I respond to that, Mr. Chairman?
Chair Durbin. When you get your--I'm going to recognize
Senator Blackburn, because I should've recognized her before
you, and she has to go, and we have several others waiting.
Senator Blackburn.
Senator Blackburn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I do have
an honor flight of veterans from Tennessee that are waiting for
us at the memorial. Thank you for the hearing today and to each
of you for being here. Thank you for your time and your
testimony. And, Ms. Nobles, we're so grateful that you would be
here. I know this is painful, and I appreciate that you are
here.
Mr. Chairman, I do wish that, since H.R. 2, the border
security bill from the House, has been over here now right at a
year, and we have not taken that bill up, I do wish that we
would take that bill up so that we could stem the flow of
illegal immigration coming into this country and then address
some of these issues. I know that Senator Cornyn--and Senator
Graham, some--talked a little bit about things that have been
offered before. I know that President Trump--and recall that he
had tried to get Speaker Pelosi, at that time, to work with him
on a way to permanent residency for DACA enrollees, and that
offer was rejected.
But securing that border's important, and I was concerned
about President Biden's announcement that he was going to offer
Obamacare to everybody that is in the DACA program. Now, at
this point, we have 85,000 illegal migrant children that HHS
and the Office of Refugee Resettlement cannot find. They do not
know where they are. They don't know if they are dead or alive.
They don't know what has happened to these children. I've
constantly asked Secretary Becerra about this, Secretary
Mayorkas. They cannot find these children. They're not putting
energy into that. But they think the right thing to do is go
say, oh, let's give free health care and then leave the border
open, not secure the border, and ask the American taxpayer to
pay for this, when unemployment is at a 2-year high, foreign-
born workers are coming into the workforce, taxpayers are
struggling to make ends meet, but you want to talk about
raising taxes and paying for a new program when you cannot
manage what is in front of you.
And fixing this issue with the southern border should be
what we are talking about and what we commit to doing. Nearly
10 million, in 3 years, that have illegally crossed the border.
Ms. Vaughan, let me come to you. When we talk about this new
rule that would give health care and we look at what is
happening at the southern border, would the implementation of
this new rule of free health care to all DACA enrollees--would
that serve as a message that incentivizes illegal crossings
into this country? How do you read that?
Ms. Vaughan. Well, I think, my understanding of the rule is
that it allows people who qualify--people with DACA who qualify
based on incomes to access the subsidies of Obamacare. And
extending benefits like this, taxpayer-funded benefits to this,
sends a signal that the United States is not serious about
enforcing its immigration laws, that if people can just get
here and----
Senator Blackburn. And get a benefit.
Ms. Vaughan [continuing]. Stay long enough, they will
eventually be offered these----
Senator Blackburn. Benefits.
Ms. Vaughan [continuing]. Kind of benefits.
Senator Blackburn. Yes. Let me ask you about the parole
program. You touched on that briefly. And I know that under
President Obama and President Trump, they each paroled about
5,600 individuals per year into the country, but in 2022,
President Biden paroled 800,000 people into the country. And
then in 2023, he paroled 1.2 million people. I mean, look at
the orders of magnitude of the actions that Biden has had and
has selected this niche program of parole status. So, in my
mind, this is abusing that parole program. I'd like for you to
touch on that and how that affects the southern border.
Ms. Vaughan. Well, it makes a mockery of this discretionary
authority that Congress gave the President with the intent that
it would be used for specific purposes, for inadmissible
aliens--people who would not otherwise be allowed to come in--
for either significant public benefit or an urgent humanitarian
need, and with the understanding that the numbers would be very
small and it would not be used in a categorical way or, you
know, casually, as it has been.
In some of the historical cases, it was used in situations
where Congress was about to validate these grants of benefits,
and that is certainly not the case with people coming here
illegally. And we know from talking to the migrants themselves
that they understand that if they can make it to the border, if
they can make a down payment in their--on their smuggling fee,
that it's very likely that they will be allowed to stay here
indefinitely without any fear of enforcement within the
country, whether they show up for their immigration proceedings
or not, and potentially have access to the same kind of
benefits that are given to long-term people who have been here
legally.
Senator Blackburn. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chair Durbin. I want to clarify something. The health
benefits offered by the Biden administration is to DACA. In
other words, to be eligible, you have to have lived
continuously in the United States since June 2007, 17 years of
residence. This notion of people perched at the border, jumping
across because they just heard about the health care benefits
bears no relation to the reality of the law that was enacted or
the order that was issued by the President. Senator Coons.
Senator Coons. Thank you very much, Chairman Durbin and
Ranking Member Graham. And, Chair Durbin, if I could, just
before I proceed--you are a good and decent man, and one of the
strongest impressions I've had of you is when I first came here
14 years ago and was presiding and got to hear you deliver a
speech about Dreamers on the floor. It's one of the first
things that happened after I got elected. And your passion,
your engagement, your determination to find a way forward here
has inspired me and has challenged all of us, and your
bipartisan work with Senator Graham, Senator Hatch, and others
is a monument to persistence in the pursuit of justice. Thank
you.
And I'd like to thank our witnesses today for appearing
before us and for testifying. To Officer Soto-Rodriguez, thank
you for your service and your willingness to share your story
today. And to Ms. Nobles, I'm a parent, too, and I cannot
imagine the depths of your suffering and agony, and I just
wanted to convey my sympathies for your unspeakable loss.
And I think it's important today, when we talk about
security and the border and law enforcement and Dreamers and
DACA and the path forward, that we have in our minds examples
that are positive as well as a clear-eyed look at the record. I
wanted to lift up today a Delawarean, Maria Cervantes Garcia. I
first met Maria at Delaware State University. I've recently
interacted with her because she's a chemist. I trained as a
chemist, I wasn't a very good one. She trained as a chemist,
she's a very good one. She today works for a company, Chemours,
as an analytical chemist.
And I think--yes, there's a wonderful photo behind me of
Maria at graduation. With a scholarship from TheDream.US, Maria
was able to channel her natural aptitude for math and science
at Delaware State University to a degree in chemistry. And she
loves volunteering at ASPIRA Academy. She's been a coach and
STEM Ambassador for the Science Olympiad. Like every other
Dreamer, she is so much more than her immigration status. And
so, while we have this conversation about the DREAM Act that
the Chairman has introduced every Congress since 2001, it's
important to also remind people what we're talking about is
folks who are neighbors and friends, who have real lives, like
Maria. She is someone who likes going for a walk in Glasgow
Park, has friends, is a member of our community, is
contributing to our society in a very positive way.
There's long been bipartisan recognition that we should act
to address the status situation of people like Maria. We do
need to address security at our border, which is why I
supported the bipartisan border security agreement. But we
can't forget about people whose status hangs in the balance and
who are participating in the DACA program. I also briefly, if I
might, Mr. Chairman, wanted to recognize the bipartisan
introduction, in the House, of the Dignity Act by
Representatives Salazar and Escobar that recognizes the need to
address both of these issues. Physical security at the border
and a path forward that provides for dignity.
Let me ask two questions, if I might. Officer Soto-
Rodriguez, I'm interested in your perspectives as a DACA
recipient and a member of law enforcement. What's your reaction
to those who talk about the border and public safety as a
reason not to provide a pathway to citizenship for Dreamers
such as yourself?
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. Do you mind rephrasing the
question, more--shorter, like----
Senator Coons. I'll put it differently. I'd like to
believe--you testified that you're a law enforcement officer
because of an interaction you had with a kind officer.
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. Correct.
Senator Coons. Are you hopeful that your presence on the
force will help inspire others to join law enforcement?
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. Correct.
Senator Coons. And, is it your view that the issues at the
border of safety and security and the issues of whether or not
people who were brought here as children, decades ago, are
different issues?
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. Correct.
Senator Coons. Thank you. That was the simple point I
wanted to make. Mr. Wong, if I might, in Delaware and in States
across the country, we're dealing with big labor shortages. Can
you just speak briefly to how fortifying DACA and passing the
DREAM Act can help address significant labor shortages in the
United States?
Professor Wong. Yes. The DREAM Act would bring hundreds of
thousands of undocumented young people out of the shadows and
into the labor force. Legal status will allow them to work more
fully and more productively. Importantly, legal status will
allow individuals to work in jobs that are commensurate with
their education and training. And so, when we think about
undocumented young people, many who don't have DACA are stuck
in jobs that are far below what their ceiling is. And so,
providing a path to citizenship and legal status would allow
these undocumented young people to meet their full potential,
thereby addressing labor needs across the workforce.
Senator Coons. Thank you. Professor, one of the reasons I
lifted up Maria--again, I want to express my gratitude to
TheDream.US for making it possible for her to graduate from
Delaware State University. She's an example of what is
possible, but we are currently missing out the skills and the
opportunities of many who are here in this country who could
and should be on a pathway to citizenship and fully
contributing to our society. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Coons. Senator Hawley and
Tillis, I want you to know, I made a mistake, earlier, and
didn't recognize Senator Blackburn in the proper order. So, I
recognized Senator Kennedy and Blackburn. Now I'm going to
recognize one more Democrat, and then we'll come back over. Is
that okay? Thank you very much. Senator Padilla.
Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Professor Wong, you
testified today that providing a pathway to citizenship for
Dreamers would significantly improve the American economy,
right? A lot of us spend a lot of time in trying to do morally
the right thing when it comes to Dreamers and their families,
but you're making an economic argument that doing so could
potentially bring in billions of dollars in additional State
and local tax revenue, create new jobs, and lead to a nearly
$800 billion increase in our GDP. From those figures alone, the
economic argument in favor of legalization, I think, is not
just clear but very compelling.
However, as you may know, former President Trump has said
that, should he be elected to a second term, he would target
millions of undocumented immigrants in a massive deportation
campaign that, if successful, I can tell you would not just
terrorize communities and lead to separation of families,
ripping countless people from the only homes they've ever
known--but do you have the expertise to talk about what an
economic impact such a massive deportation campaign would have
on regional economies and our Nation's economy? Can you talk a
little bit about that?
Professor Wong. Yes. Thank you for the question. So,
Dreamers currently contribute an estimated $45 billion per year
in gross domestic product. If we no longer had DACA and
subjected Dreamers to that massive deportation force that you
mentioned, then we would lose out on that economic benefit. But
more to the point, DACA recipients and Dreamers more generally
aren't just economic units. They are people who are embedded in
our communities. And so, in our most recent survey of DACA
recipients, what we did was conduct a survey experiment to
figure out what life without DACA would be like for DACA
recipients.
And so, as I mentioned earlier, approximately 58 percent
would be less likely to pursue education without DACA.
Approximately 63 percent would be less likely to pursue new
educational opportunities. Importantly, 43 percent say they
would be less likely to look for new jobs, and 42 percent would
be less likely to report wage theft by their employers. And so,
not only would we lose the economic benefits that Dreamers
currently bring to the economy, but we would put Dreamers
further into the shadows to the point where, even if they were
being abused by their employers, they wouldn't report it.
Senator Padilla. Thank you. And just to underscore the
significance of your response, I want to remind us all of the
distinction, again, because our colleagues on the other side of
the aisle keep muddling the issue. I'm not talking about people
who may be on their way to the southern border to seek asylum
or anything else. I'm talking--we're talking about long-term
current residents of the United States and their work and their
contributions to the success of communities in our country.
Now, as we've heard today, it's been more than two decades
since the DREAM Act was first introduced. It was in 2001 that
our Chairman, Chairman Durbin, and the late Senator Orrin Hatch
introduced the DREAM Act the first time. It's been bipartisan
since day one. The Chair's been fighting for it ever since, and
during all this time, Dreamers have grown up. They've graduated
high school. They've graduated from college, many from graduate
school. They've started families. And those lucky enough to
have the protections that come with DACA have established
careers. They've become doctors and nurses and teachers and
police officers like Officer Soto-Rodriguez, who's here with us
today.
But in all that time, Dreamers have also lived with the
uncertainty and fear because of their status and Congress's
failure, year after to year, to deliver for them. I'd like to
ask Ms. Pacheco, who--you said in your testimony that you're
here representing not only your own journey, which is a
powerful and inspiring one in and of itself, but you also
represent the hopes and aspirations of millions like you who
have lived through the ups and downs of this fight for many,
many years. Can you please tell us what these past few decades
have been like for you and others who have been waiting and
waiting and waiting far too long for protections and certainty?
Ms. Pacheco. Yes. Thank you, Senator. Well, it's been four
administrations, Republicans and Democrats, in the last 20
years that we have seen this. And for me, the biggest
devastation is seeing that today the average age of a DACA
recipient is actually 29. They actually now have families. One
in ten of our scholars have a U.S. citizen child. They say that
about 300,000 U.S. citizen children have a parent that has
DACA. And for me, the thing that really hurts the most is
seeing all the potential that the young people, many of them
sitting in this room today, have and the desire to be able to
contribute even more than they already are contributing to this
country, if they were to be allowed to be U.S. citizens.
Senator Padilla. Thank you. I'd have additional questions,
but my time is up. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Chair Durbin. Senator Tillis.
Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you all for
being here. I've been in the Senate since 2015. I've been on
Judiciary Committee since the beginning of that. I've sat
through a hearing at least every Congress, and it's much of the
same. We haven't done a damned thing. And a lot of that is
because it is thorny, and people only want to listen to one
side of the argument and not both sides of the argument.
I have co-sponsored and supported efforts to have a pathway
to citizenship for the DACA population. I also felt very
strongly that we have to secure the border first. This
administration--just a quick question. Anybody just raise your
hands if you agree. Do you believe that--there're nine million,
roughly nine million encounters at the border since President
Biden's been in office. Some number less than that are people
who've ultimately made their way to this country. Do they
deserve a path to citizenship, the--let's call it seven million
who've crossed the border illegally since Biden came into
office? Does anybody here think they deserve a path to
citizenship? Okay, we have one in the audience.
Do we believe that people that crossed the border illegally
during the Trump administration deserve a path to citizenship?
Okay. Do we believe that--I think even the DACA legislation--I
think the number is 2012. Do we believe that anybody who's
crossed the border since 2012 deserves a path to citizenship?
Well, I have to--there's a difference here, because I'm
assuming because y'all didn't raise your hand that we're back
to the traditional definition of DACA or Dreamer population.
But guess what? If we don't have an answer for the
unmanaged border, there is no earthly way that we're going to
get a path to citizenship for a population that I've supported.
I've taken all the hits for supporting path to citizenship. I
support it for the reasons some of my colleagues across the
aisle have. But I do believe, I think, that the Chair commented
on--there is a huge pull factor. We're the United States of
America. We're one of the greatest countries that's ever
existed. Thanks for actually being willing to risk your life
and risk the lives of your children for coming to this country.
On the one hand, it's a great compliment. On the other
hand, for somebody like me who's trying to get a path to
citizenship and secure the border, stop it, because every
single person who crosses that border illegally puts me further
away from getting a path to citizenship to the very people
that--those of you who are on the panel who support it--want to
have it. Stop it. Now, we don't even have an administration--do
you know why the James Lankford bill imploded? Lot of good
policy in it. Zero trust in the Biden administration for
securing the border.
Zero trust. And there's a good reason why. When you've got
Democrat mayors saying, we cannot handle the load that's coming
on us, because we're moving people off the border into New York
and Chicago--when they have to experience the pain that Texas
and some of the border States experience, guess what? They've
been doing it for years. So, we've created a problem that isn't
going to get fixed until people who support a path to
citizenship can finish the sentence by saying, and secure the
border and stop the illegal crossings.
And the people who say that we don't need foreign workers,
that we don't need more people--I, for one, think we probably
need about a half million more people a year, to solve our
demographic problem, to avoid what's happened in Japan and
western Nations. But it's the people who say, there's nothing
to see here at the border; it's not a crisis--it's on you,
because until you recognize it is a problem, it is a crisis,
you have to come here in an orderly fashion, you have to
respect our laws--don't let your first encounter with the
United States of America be avoiding and ignoring our laws
about legal immigration. Get frustrated. Advocate for more
people coming across. But understand that's a problem, folks.
Help me help you. If you want the Dreamers to have
certainty and have a path to citizenship, if you want the DACA
population--as I do--to want certainty and have a path to
citizenship, then stop trying to have it both ways, because
that is partisan, it's ideologically driven, and it will result
in making these poor people that I am trying to get a path to
citizenship further away from ever getting it. So, stop talking
past each other. Stop only liking one side of the equation, and
stop pretending you like bipartisanship if, in fact, you won't
support both sides of the equation. That is strong border
policy, respect our laws, come here on an orderly basis, and
then count me in for trying to get about a half million more
into this country legally and doing something right for the
DACA and Dreamer population. Thank you.
Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Tillis. Senator Ossoff.
Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for
convening this hearing. Thank you to our panel. Just want to
remind everybody in the room and everyone tuned in that we're
talking about folks who were brought here as children and have
been part of our society for 20 years, in many cases--children
who were brought to the United States through no fault of their
own and who are actively contributing and law abiding and, in
many cases, law enforcement officers themselves, neighbors and
community members. And in Georgia, we host and are proud to be
the home of more than 17,000 active DACA recipients, folks who
were brought here as children through no fault of their own and
have participated in this program established with bipartisan
support.
Something that's surprised me about the way this hearing
has gone so far, Mr. Chairman, is, this has for so long been a
commonsense, bipartisan question of basic fairness. And I hope
that we can return to that spirit as we approach this issue,
because it is urgent, in my view, that we pass bipartisan
legislation that establishes a path to citizenship for these
Americans who were brought here as children and who otherwise
follow the law.
So, I want to ask you, please, Ms. Soto-Rodriguez. In
Georgia, in recent months, many DACA recipients have seen
substantially increased delays in the processing time for
renewals, and my office has received calls from DACA recipients
as well as their employers. Work permits depend upon the
renewal of DACA authorization. So, from your perspective, what
are the most profound impacts on the daily lives of DACA
recipients when they're unable to timely renew their status?
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. I can tell you from my experience,
because I just went through it just this past renewal. I did my
renewal with the time, the date I chose to do it. I was about
to lose my job because my work permit was about to expire
within a day. When the expiration came in, my driver's license
was already expired, so I had no driving license, and I had to
talk to my chief from the police department to let him know
what was the issue. So, it affected me. All these delays--it's
affected me and also affecting all the DACAs, as well.
Senator Ossoff. And how old were you when you were brought
to the United States?
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. Nine years old.
Senator Ossoff. Nine years old. And you're now a patrol
officer?
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. Correct.
Senator Ossoff. Which department?
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. Blue Island Police Department.
Senator Ossoff. And so, the Blue Island Police Department,
at a time when law enforcement organizations across the country
are having a tough time hiring and retaining officers and
deputies, stood potentially to lose a member of the force if
your DACA renewal was not processed on time?
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. I mean, they were following just
the rules, but they were able to help me, too, because they
were--they knew that I was--I was doing the right thing----
Senator Ossoff. Sure. It's----
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. [continuing]. By renewing my
permit. It was just not my fault that my permit wasn't coming
on time.
Senator Ossoff. Ms. Soto-Rodriguez, what would be your--you
know, there's been some theatrics at this hearing, and welcome
to the U.S. Senate, but----
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. Thanks.
Senator Ossoff [continuing]. As you've heard all of the
partisan speeches today, all the usual political talking points
that people associate with Congress and see on TV, as someone
who has lived the journey you have and who has achieved amazing
things, and you're defending your community, you're enforcing
the law with the Blue Island Police Department--what would be
your message to Senators up here who have been talking about
this, the importance of establishing some stability, some
permanency about a path to citizenship for folks who were
brought here as children, have been here for 20 years, have
participated in the DACA program? What's your message to these
politicians today?
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. Just like I mentioned in my story
at the beginning, most of us come here because of our parents,
and many of us are doing great things for the country, and
especially because we don't see this country just as a country.
Like, for me, this is my home. This is who I give my life for.
So, I wouldn't pick any other country. I know I'm Mexican. I
know I wasn't born here. But this is my home. This is the only
place I know, since I was brought here.
Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Ms. Soto-Rodriguez. Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
Officer Soto-Rodriguez. You're welcome.
Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator. Senator Hawley.
Senator Hawley. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thanks
to all of the witnesses for being here. Ms. Pacheco, if I could
just start with you. Your organization, TheDream.US--you
provide support for undocumented young people for college and
career success. Is that broadly right? Am I getting it right?
Ms. Pacheco. That's correct.
Senator Hawley. And among the things you do is you provide
scholarships to these undocumented students. Have I got that
correct?
Ms. Pacheco. That's right.
Senator Hawley. And so--college scholarships, just to be
clear?
Ms. Pacheco. Correct.
Senator Hawley. Okay. Got you. Can you tell me--maybe you
know the answer to this, maybe you don't. Any of the students--
do you know if any of the students to whom your organization
has provided a college scholarship are currently part of the
encampments on any of these college campuses, like the picture
you see behind me? I'm sure we've all seen these videos.
Ms. Pacheco. No, Senator.
Senator Hawley. Nobody to whom you provide scholarships are
part of the encampments?
Ms. Pacheco. I do not know.
Senator Hawley. Oh, you don't know. What if--do you know if
any of the students to whom you provided scholarships have
threatened, physically threatened Jewish students on campus?
Ms. Pacheco. I do not know.
Senator Hawley. Here's why I'm asking. NBC News just
reported--and I'm just going to quote now from the article--
quote, ``a Columbia''--this is Columbia University--``a
Columbia undergraduate who provided only her initials because
she is an undocumented immigrant and fears deportation said
last week she spent hours a day in the encampment''--this would
be the illegal encampment that's in violation of the law as
well as student policy--as well as campus policy--``spent hours
a day in the encampment, I'm quoting now, ``before university
officials threatened to suspend those students.'' The article
goes on, ``She joined this''--this student--``joined a supplies
platoon. That's a subgroup formed by pro-Palestinian campus
organizers,'' end quote.
Let me just review some of the things that these students--
these in the encampments, that is--are saying. And, of course,
we often don't know who these students are. They're concealing
their identities. This is--I'm going to read to you now, and I
just warn folks, this is not pleasant stuff, but these are the
facts, and we have to tell the truth. This is just from last
night at George Washington University. That's here in this
town.
They projected--the students in the encampment there
projected onto various buildings images of the United States
flag being burned, with the graphics, ``Gaza lights the spark
that will set the empire ablaze.'' They projected the
following, ``Long live the student intifada. Down with the
settler State.'' That would be the State of Israel, I suppose.
``Glory to the martyrs of Palestine.'' It's a jihadist slogan.
``Stained with the blood of 44,000 Palestinians.'' That's last
night at GW.
Also at GW, they're now calling for beheading--the student
encampment--beheading--beheading of individuals who support the
State of Israel, including holding a people's tribunal where
they're putting on ``trial,'' quote, unquote, various members
of their own board of trustees and calling for a guillotine.
Here's Columbia University students on April 20, 2024. This is
all public record. I'm reading this now, this is on--I guess
it's X. Columbia University students yelling at Jewish
students, and I quote, ``Never forget October 7th. It will not
happen--I'm sorry--it will happen not one more time, not five
more times, not 10, not 100, not 1,000, but 10,000 times. The
7th of October is going to be every day for you. The 7th of
October''--this is to Jewish students--``is going to be every
day for you,'' end quote.
I guess my question is, Ms. Pacheco, and for anybody else
on the panel, too. Shouldn't we be deporting these students, if
we have undocumented students who are here unlawfully in the
country who are violating the law? Let's just be clear, here,
now. This is a violation of the law. And if they're also
deliberately inciting persecution of a person on account of
their race, which surely calling for the murder of Jews does
that--shouldn't we be deporting them? Does anybody think we
shouldn't be? Shouldn't we be deporting these students who are
here unlawfully? Ms. Pacheco?
Ms. Pacheco. Senator, we expect a lot from our scholars,
and the scholars and the students that I know love this
country, respect this country, and want to--enrich not only the
campuses but also this country.
Senator Hawley. That's fantastic, and I hope and bet that
none of the people that you sponsor are part of this. And I
certainly hope that's the case. But I just wondered, is there
anybody on the panel who thinks that we should not deport
students who are here unlawfully who are engaging in this
activity, who are calling for the death of Jewish students, who
are violating the laws of the United States? I mean, shouldn't
we be deporting these people? Does anybody want to defend it
and say, no, we shouldn't, they should absolutely be here? Yes,
I think it's indefensible. Let the record reflect just total
silence from the panel.
You know, I also think we ought to cancel the student
visas, and I've called for this, for those who are here from
other countries with a visa. I think if they're part of this,
we ought to be canceling their visas. We ought to send a clear
message. Actually, Ms. Pacheco, I think it was you, in your
opening statement, put it really beautifully about how part of
what we're talking here today represents the character of the
country. I think that's very appropriate.
And we need to send a message about this activity, not just
about the trespassing and the destruction of buildings. That's
bad. That's unlawful. But the threats of violence and in some
cases the outright acts of violence against Jewish students--we
should send a moral message that if you do that, and you are
here unlawfully, you should be deported. If you are here on a
student visa, you ought to have your visa canceled. This is the
United States of America, and we are not going to stand for it.
And I would just hope we could speak with one moral voice on
this issue. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chair Durbin. Senator Whitehouse.
Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Chairman. I'd like to return
to the topic of the hearing and just tell a Rhode Island story,
if I may, about a woman named Mariela Lucaj, who came to the
U.S. from Albania when she was 4 years old. Four years old. I
don't know if anybody has a lot of memories from before they
were 4 years old, but pretty much all of Mariela's memories are
from growing up in Rhode Island.
Her parents opened a small business. Mariela earned high
honors in high school. She attended Rhode Island Community
College and the University of Rhode Island, where she studied
to become a nurse. Not a police officer, but a nurse. Pretty
good, right? She then earned her master's in business
administration from Northeastern University. When she was in
college, Mariela was student government president, and she
served as the student representative on the Rhode Island Board
of Education for 2 years. She also served as a board member on
our Commission on Higher Education & Employability.
She spent 5 years working as a registered nurse at Rhode
Island Hospital in the neurology inpatient unit. At the onset
of the COVID pandemic, she became a crisis relief nurse,
working where she was most needed, in critical areas all around
the country. And as many of you will remember, in the early
days of the COVID epidemic, it was not known how dangerous that
pandemic would be. It was not known the extent of the risk that
practitioners, police officers, EMTs, nurses, and doctors were
putting themselves at by going about their jobs and their
duties. They did, and she did. She now works as a quality
performance analyst at Athena Health, and Rhode Island
Community College is proud enough of her that they have asked
her to serve on the board of trustees of the college, and she
is now on the Rhode Island Community College board.
Those are the kind of people we're talking about here. And
I just want to make sure we're focusing on that. This Committee
has been the place where some very significant bipartisan
immigration reforms began. Chairman Durbin was instrumental,
along with then-Chairman Leahy and then Ranking Member Graham,
in working on a very robust immigration reform that got 70-plus
votes on the Senate floor. I want to say 78, but it got a big
bipartisan vote on the Senate floor. It was sent over to the
Republican-controlled House, where nobody would give it a
hearing, nobody would give it a vote, nobody would allow it in
Committee, nobody would allow it on the floor. It was just
squelched, even though there was such a significant bipartisan
vote for it in the Senate. So, at the hands of the Republican
speaker, all that good Senate work went to waste.
Recently, we've seen months of work take place on
immigration reform. We stopped supporting our ally in Ukraine
while we tried to hash through that. After all that work, after
being presented with the most comprehensive immigration bill in
40 years, a bipartisan bill with the lead negotiator on the
Republican side, the deeply conservative James Lankford--a bill
that would have added resources to the border, added agents,
added judges, added detention space. That would've upped our
fentanyl detection capability dramatically, that would've
tightened up standards in various programs, particularly the
asylum program. That had the support of the U.S. Chamber of
Commerce and The Wall Street Journal editorial page, who don't
exactly love Democrat initiatives--after all of that, again,
one Republican took it down.
In this case it wasn't the speaker refusing to take it up.
It was the soon-to-be-nominee of the Republican party, the
leader of the Republican party, who said, don't do this. Don't
do this. I want the issue. I want a mess. I want to run on
this. And, obediently, our colleagues took it down, wouldn't
vote for it, pulled it apart. And that was the end of that.
We're still ready to go. And I hope that, after those two
unpleasant experiences, this Committee is not so disappointed
that we can't go forward. I do know that Chairman Durbin has
many, many years of extremely sincere and diligent pursuit of
this. Senator Graham has been involved in bipartisan
immigration efforts for a very long time. It may take a moment
for things to cool down enough to reboot, but this Committee
will be a good place for that, and I salute the Chairman.
Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator. And your summary of the
current status of legislation could not be more accurate.
Senator Booker.
Senator Booker. Mr. Chairman, I want to pick off just where
Senator Whitehouse left off. I came to the Senate, as you know,
in 2013, right after a bipartisan group of Senators
courageously met in the middle and wrote an extraordinary bill
that would've addressed many of the issues and concerns
opportunistically being politicized right now. And that bill
failed because House Republicans blocked it.
And so, from my time entering the Senate to when I watched
with disbelief--I didn't think this place could shock me
anymore--but to see someone, who I consider such an honorable
person, being willing--and Senator Lankford--to join in good-
faith negotiations, to work for months and months, to have our
caucus of Democrats move further than many of our caucus wanted
us to move and meet in the middle on a bill that would provide
billions of dollars to secure our border, would invest in
significant technology that would help us to stop fentanyl from
coming through, that would put billions of dollars in better
processes to adjudicate people so that the nightmares that the
Nobles family has endured would stop, that would create new
laws and new abilities that were applauded by the very people
who, every day, stand on our border, the officers' union, and
to have that bipartisan bill--objected to by people, of course,
on both sides of the political spectrum but that had enough
votes in this body to pass--and then to have President Trump
demonize this bipartisan bill that his own Senate party members
were saying, we would not get a better deal under a Trump
presidency--it astonished me.
Immigration should not be a problem. It should be an
opportunity. We should secure our southern border. Democrats
have voted time and time again to put more resources into doing
just that, but the political opportunism, the playing into the
tribalism, the manufactured outrage is so hurting this Nation,
wounding us not just in our own safety and security but in our
own economic opportunity. We are losing billions of dollars to
our economy because we have such broken immigration laws. There
are people that are graduating from our finest institutions
with degrees in things that half of Congress can't spell, and
we're kicking them out of our country.
When I meet with agricultural leaders, they say, time and
time again, that we should be ashamed of our laws. And when I
hear testimony from people who contribute billions of dollars
to our country's economy, who are our first responders, who
teach our children--Dreamers--and we put their lives--every
single day they live with fear and anxiety. I can't imagine
what it's like to have that kind of cortisol pumping in your
brain every single day, afraid that one small thing that could
happen could have you deported from the country, the only
country you've ever known. And so, God bless this panel.
But as Ms. Pacheco said, this is not her first testimony. I
mean, we should be embarrassed in this place that we've had for
the entire career of my Senate, from a bipartisan bill to a
bipartisan bill, all the time in the middle, we've gone through
this exercise of rehashing the same thing, of having people
come before Congress, telling their painful, emotional, hurtful
stories, and to what end? To have it destroyed by opportunism.
And this isn't a both-sides thing. The bill before I came in
here was stopped by House Republicans, and the bill that just
got done--by Lankford, who's had his career on the line, a
right-wing conservative Senator has had his career on the line
because he was bold enough to say, we can meet in the middle on
this issue.
So, I'm--my entire Senate career--has been a source of deep
frustration on an issue that we should seize and seize an
opportunity and not this continued crisis that politicians are
taking advantage of every single day. Mr. Chairman, I have no
questions for this incredible group of leaders, many of whom I
know personally and have talked to for years. Thank you.
Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Booker. Senator Welch.
Senator Welch. I want to associate myself with the remarks
of Senator Booker, and I appreciate your advocacy over the
years. I feel the same way. You know, we all have a story, but
I was inspired by a young man named Juan Conde who came to
Vermont several years ago to go to medical school. And he came
from Mexico with his mom when he was 5 years old. And how does
somebody go from being a 5-year-old, crossing the border,
living in Texas for some time, and then getting up to Vermont?
His mom died of cancer, and that inspired him to go to medical
school and then to get a research degree. I mean, it's
astonishing how wonderful this person was. And he was my guest
at a State of the Union.
Senator Booker, you know, I was in the House for a while,
and we passed in the House the Dreamer Act, and there was such
excitement, because it just gave an opportunity to kids, now
adults, to be fully contributing members. And here we have a
police officer. We've had so many people in the military. So
many people have contributed so much. And, I think, there's
universal agreement that if you're a child who has no control
over where Mom or Dad takes you, that's different than showing
up at the border when you're an adult, for whatever reason that
may be. That's just different. It's a child who then found it
in himself or herself to become an extraordinary contributor to
our economy and bring a lot of love to a lot of people in this
country.
So, Senator Durbin, I just want to thank you for your
tireless advocacy on behalf of the Dreamers. I know you'll
never stop. You're a stubborn guy. So, we've got, like, a kind
of a persistent champion here, and it's really tremendous. We
do have to deal with the border. We have to have a secure
border. You know, Senator Tillis is right about that. And I was
so pleased that we had the opportunity to vote.
You know, Senator Lankford did take a long step, to reach a
practical way of securing the border, and Senator Murphy and
Senator Sinema did, as well. And I was ready to vote for that.
I was ready to vote for comprehensive immigration reform when
the Senate passed a bill. Senator Durbin, you were part of
that, and it came to the House. But then-Speaker Boehner
wouldn't even allow us to vote on it. Very, very frustrating.
So, I can only imagine what it's like for all of you and for
all of you and people in your situation. So, I just want to
express my respect for what you're doing.
You know, the other issue is, when there's a criminal act,
you know, this is heartbreaking, what we hear about. There's
got to be tough prosecution on that. You know, there's got to
be law and order. There has to be. But to conflate that with
the overall issue of, in my case, this young 5-year-old, you
know, Juan Conde being brought here, becoming a doctor, doing
medical research--they're two different things that get
conflated, and I think it does damage to us making progress.
So, since all the questions have been asked, I appreciate the
opportunity to make a statement in solidarity. And, again, I
want to end by thanking Senator Durbin for his tireless efforts
here. It's just in his heart and in his soul, and one day we're
going to get the relief that justice requires. Thank you. I
yield back.
Senator Booker. Mr. Chairman, I just want to say for the
record I find it offensive that the good Senator did not use
all of his time to grandstand in any way and yielded time back
to the Senator from California. That's so un-Senatorial of him.
And he's not a House Member anymore. He needs to reclaim all of
his time.
[Laughter.]
Chair Durbin. He has, in fact, violated Senate tradition.
[Laughter.]
Chair Durbin. But we'll give you extra time next round. The
most patient Member of the Committee, Senator Butler.
Senator Butler. Thank you, Chair Durbin. I am also going to
be un-Senatorial and violate all the rules, as well. All of the
questions--meaningful questions, in my opinion--have been
asked, and you all have answered with such passion and
commitment and patriotism. And so, I just appreciate all of you
for your participation and presence here. Ms. Nobles, I do have
a daughter. She's 9 years old. I think everybody in the Senate,
whether they are a Democrat or Republican, knows that I wake up
every single day and come here in the name of my own daughter.
I could not imagine your family's pain, and I just want to
offer my sincerest apologies to you and to your family.
And know that, there are those--while there are those who
would suggest that because we support this community finding a
pathway to citizenship, that we cannot stand with you in the
prosecution of criminals who took something away from your
family, I want to assure you that that is not the case. And all
of us--all of us--believe that the person who took your
daughter's life and caused your family's pain should be
prosecuted and held to the fullest extent of the law.
Chair Durbin, your decades-long commitment to this
community and to this issue is immeasurable and cannot be
repeated in any way. And I know that those of you who have
taken this journey with Chair Durbin for the last two decades
know that you have a never-ending, relentless champion. And
just know that there are others who stand with him. I represent
the State with the largest number of DACA recipients,
California, 185,000 DACA recipients. And I sat here patiently,
Chair Durbin, because they deserve voice. And as their
representative, temporary or permanent, I wanted to be here to
give them voice.
And so, Ms. Pacheco, I do have one question for you.
California is not only home to the largest number of DACA
recipients, it's also home to the largest number of Hispanic-
serving institutions, 172 of them. Your organization's work is
about scholarship and the pursuit of higher education. And so,
these Hispanic-serving institutions--many of them have created
what's come to be known as Dream Centers, supporting
undocumented students who are on campus as students in pursuit
of higher education and greater contribution to our State and
to our country.
Can you talk about the importance of these Dream Centers in
higher education? How do they actually enhance the academic
performance and experience of undocumented students, Dreamers,
who are seeking to find not only connection and belonging but
community, often in institutions that didn't necessary have
them in mind when these institutions were created?
Ms. Pacheco. Yes. Thank you, Senator. That's a really
important point. And at TheDream.US, while not all our
institutions have Centers, they do have a person called a
scholar advisor that is the linchpin. It's the person that is
there to support our students. In reality, as Senator Booker
talked about, our students go through a lot of anxiety, stress.
Their lives, any day--they listen on the news. They hear about
what's happening on the legal challenges. I'm sure that many of
them are watching this today. And they having a home, having
somebody that they can talk to, having somebody that can
provide them with the support that they need not only helps
them academically but also helps them with their stress and
managing their mental health.
Senator Butler. Thank you, Ms. Pacheco. Thank you, Mr.
Chair. Thank you to all of the students and activists,
advocates, patriots, who have chosen to utilize your time so
passionately on this issue. We couldn't get this far without
you, and we won't get all the way there without you, either.
So, thank you.
Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator. Senator Blumenthal.
Senator Blumenthal. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank
Senator Durbin for his passionate and constant advocacy. I've
been very proud to work with him over the years. And I know,
Ms. Pacheco, you testified in 2013, when we came very close to
a bill, and we have, since then, continued to work on it. So,
you should know--all of you should know that we're not going
away. We're not abandoning this effort, whatever the outcome of
this hearing. And I think you can tell from the tenor of some
of my colleagues that we're not unanimous in favor of the
Dreamers, but we are not giving up.
And we're not giving up, in part, because of you
individually and your stories, which are so inspiring to
Americans. And I find in Connecticut that the success stories
like yours are really powerful and compelling. One of those
stories is of a Connecticut Dreamer, Myagmarsuren Otgonbayar,
who arrived in the United States from Mongolia when she was 11
years old. She grew up in Fairfield, Connecticut. And she met
all the criteria for the DACA program, but she is still one of
the 100,000 applicants stuck in legal limbo during Texas'
lawsuit against the program.
And despite not being eligible for financial aid because of
her immigration status, she graduated from the University of
Connecticut in 2019 with a degree in biology. She was working
to fund her education, and she was taking care of her younger
brother at the same time that she was studying, and her parents
were working long hours to put food on the table and pay their
rent. She graduated. She hoped to attend medical school. She
wanted to gain experience by working in a biology lab, but the
jobs that she found required work authorization or permanent
residency. Without DACA or the DREAM Act, she had to put that
plan on hold.
She's continued to contribute to her community. In fact,
she's now operation manager for Connecticut Students for a
DREAM, which has done great work in our State. But this one
example, I think, speaks volumes, as do your stories about how
important this measure is, not just for the individuals but for
our communities and the contributions that people make. So, I
would like to ask you, Ms. Pacheco, about the feelings that
others may have, being in this kind of legal limbo. How it
affects their aspirations, their hopes, and their desire to
achieve the American Dream, which is simply to have an
opportunity to learn and earn and move forward.
Ms. Pacheco. Yes. Senator, in 2010, myself and three
friends decided to do a walk from Miami to Washington, DC. And
every single day, we were putting ourselves at threat of
deportation by sharing our story and being open. But every
single day, in the morning, I would put on my shoes, tie my
laces, and go out there, because I love this country. That is
what every single one of our scholars and Dreamers do. And
every single day is uncertain for them, but they believe that
one day America is going to recognize them, that they belong
here in this country.
For our scholars, during the pandemic one of our students
was a nurse. He says, every day I would put my gown on, and
even though I was putting my own life at risk, I was there to
ensure that my patients were well taken care of. And let me
assure you, Senator, that not one of those patients ever asked
our student, a nurse, if he had DACA, an immigration status, or
what. But he still did it, despite working 80 hours a week,
because this is his country. This is his home.
Senator Blumenthal. Thank you very much. Thanks, Mr.
Chairman.
Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Blumenthal. I thank all the
Members who were part of this, and I certainly thank our panel.
Ms. Nobles, I want to make a point very clear, because I think
about what you've gone through, and no one should ever
experience what you've experienced. And so, that you
understand, I accept Senator Tillis's challenge that, on a
bipartisan basis, we come together and do something, not just
about DACA and Dreamers but about the border, as well.
And I think we start with some basic premises. Number one
premise is we have to have an orderly process at the border.
People can't overwhelm the system and come in without any type
of verification. Second, we've got to make sure we let the
world know that we cannot take everyone. I understand, as the
son of an immigrant, the draw of the United States. And we
should have immigration. I support immigration, but it has to
be in an orderly way, and the numbers have to be manageable.
To your particular experience, we have got to make certain
that no one is ever knowingly allowed to come into the United
States who would be a danger to anyone else. That means being
careful, as careful as we can be. We owe it to everyone living
in the United States. We owe it to you and your experience, to
meet that goal. I think we can reach that common ground--I hope
we can--if political circumstances improve.
Dr. Wong, Professor Wong, we have this new thing in the
Committee. If you ever belonged to an organization, you are
automatically responsible for everything they've ever said and
done, whether you knew about it or didn't, whether you
participated in it, however you voted on it. I have to confess
I'm worried. For probably 6 years, I was a card-carrying,
uniformed member of the Boy Scouts of America.
[Laughter.]
Chair Durbin. I don't know what they did in the 1950's, but
someone on this panel may hold me responsible for it. So, it's
a new line of questioning, and most people understand it's an
unfair line of questioning. Let me just also say I want to
acknowledge all my staff for the work they do, but I want to
particularly acknowledge Joe Zogby. Raise your hand, Joe. He's
been with me from the start. When we introduced this bill, Joe
sat down at the table and came up with the bipartisan effort--
to name it the DREAM Act. So, he's been there from the start.
Anything we've achieved, I owe to Joe and my fine staff people
working with him. I just asked Joe a question, and I knew that
he would know the answer. What was the date of the Saturday
when we had a vote on the DREAM Act, years ago, and the
galleries were filled? Do you remember this, Gaby?
Ms. Pacheco. Yes.
Chair Durbin. The galleries were filled with young people
wearing caps and gowns. They were Dreamers who wanted to go to
school or wanted to finish school or wanted to brag about the
fact that they'd finished school. And they filled the galleries
of the Senate on a Saturday morning. And we fell short, just a
few votes, but we fell short of passing the DREAM Act. I went
to a church nearby, a----
Ms. Pacheco. Yes.
Chair Durbin [continuing]. Couple blocks away, and it was
one of the saddest meetings I've ever had. These people--young
people were so determined to finally break through and to get
recognition for what they had done with their lives and what
they wanted to do with their lives, and we fell short in the
Senate. We've passed it in other times, but never--I think
never as much of a build-up as it was that year. I said to them
then, and I say to you now, I'm not giving up on you. Don't
give up on us. We're going to fight this battle and continue to
fight it until we prevail. We have so many people stand behind
you, believe in you. Many of them are here today.
I want to move to enter into the record, a number of
statements from organizations, including The Immigration Hub,
Association of Catholic Colleges and Universities, and the
Evangelical Immigration Table. Without objection, these
statements will be included.
So, thank you for coming. To everyone at the panel, thank
you for being part of this hearing. This meeting of the Senate
Judiciary Committee stands adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:42 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
[Additional material submitted for the record follows]
A P P E N D I X
Submitted by Chair Durbin:
Advocates for Human Rights....................................... 86
American Bar Association (ABA)................................... 84
American Business Immigration Coalition (ABIC)................... 123
American Immigration Lawyers Association......................... 110
Arizona State University (ASU)................................... 119
Association of Jesuit Colleges & Universities (AJCU)............. 88
California State University (CSU)................................ 129
Carroll, Donna M., Testimony..................................... 107
Center American Resource Center (CARECEN)........................ 90
Center for Law and Social Policy (CLASP)......................... 97
Children at Risk................................................. 92
Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights (CHIRLA)................... 94
Coalition for the American Dream................................. 177
DACA, homeowners article......................................... 102
Dominican University............................................. 104
Egan, Marc, Director of Government Relations, National Education
Association................................................... 131
Evangelical Immigration Table.................................... 108
Farmingdale State College........................................ 74
Franciscan Action Network Statement.............................. 112
Hebbard, Dr. Matthew S., Testimony............................... 76
Hispanic Association of Colleges and Universities (HACU)......... 181
Hostos Community College......................................... 114
Immigrants Rising................................................ 136
Immigration Hub.................................................. 115
Justice and Advocacy Ministries of Disciples Home Missions....... 77
National Education Association (NEA)............................. 118
National Immigration Law Center (NILC)........................... 132
Nava, Gabriel, Statement......................................... 113
North Park University, Chicago................................... 106
Powderly, Timothy, Senior Director, Government Affairs, Americas,
Apple......................................................... 127
Presidents' Alliance, On Higher Education and Immigration........ 78
TheDream.US...................................................... 141
UNIDOS US........................................................ 171
Unitarian Universalists for Social Justice Statement............. 176
Wingate University............................................... 135
Submitted by Senator Hirono:
National Education Association................................... 183
Submitted by Senator Padilla:
Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights (CHIRLA)................... 184
National Education Association (NEA)............................. 187
Powderly, Timothy, Senior Director, Government Affairs, Americas,
Apple......................................................... 188
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