[Senate Hearing 118-626]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                                                        S. Hrg. 118-626

                    A THREAT TO JUSTICE EVERYWHERE:
                       STEMMING THE TIDE OF HATE
                           CRIMES IN AMERICA

=======================================================================





                                HEARING

                               before the

                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               ----------                              

                           SEPTEMBER 17, 2024

                               ----------                              

                          Serial No. J-118-78

                               ----------                              

         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary





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                        www.judiciary.senate.gov
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                    A THREAT TO JUSTICE EVERYWHERE:
              STEMMING THE TIDE OF HATE CRIMES IN AMERICA





























                                                        S. Hrg. 118-626

                    A THREAT TO JUSTICE EVERYWHERE:
                       STEMMING THE TIDE OF HATE
                           CRIMES IN AMERICA

=======================================================================





                                HEARING

                               before the

                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION
                               __________

                           SEPTEMBER 17, 2024
                               __________

                          Serial No. J-118-78
                               __________

         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary





                [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]





                        www.judiciary.senate.gov
                            www.govinfo.gov                           
                                ______
                                
                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

60-121                     WASHINGTON : 2025                            
                            
                            































                            
                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                   RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois, Chair
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island     LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina, 
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota               Ranking Member
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware       CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      JOHN CORNYN, Texas
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              MICHAEL S. LEE, Utah
CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey           TED CRUZ, Texas
ALEX PADILLA, California             JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
JON OSSOFF, Georgia                  TOM COTTON, Arkansas
PETER WELCH, Vermont                 JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
LAPHONZA BUTLER, California          THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
                                     MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee
                 Joseph Zogby, Majority Staff Director
                Kolan L. Davis, Minority Staff Director
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                

                
                
                
                
                
          
                            C O N T E N T S

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                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page

Durbin, Hon. Richard J...........................................     1
Graham, Hon. Lindsey O...........................................     3

                               WITNESSES

Berry, Maya......................................................     5
    Prepared statement...........................................    45
    Responses to written questions...............................    98

Goldfeder, Mark..................................................     7
    Prepared statement...........................................    66
    Responses to written questions...............................   107

Stern, Kenneth S.................................................     9
    Prepared statement...........................................    74
    Responses to written questions...............................   115

                                APPENDIX

Items submitted for the record...................................    43

 
                    A THREAT TO JUSTICE EVERYWHERE:
                  STEMMING THE TIDE OF HATE CRIMES IN
                                AMERICA

                              ----------                              

                      TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 17, 2024

                              ----------                              

                              United States Senate,
                                Committee on the Judiciary,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:15 a.m., in 
Room G50, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Richard J. 
Durbin, Chair of the Committee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Durbin [presiding], Whitehouse, 
Klobuchar, Blumenthal, Hirono, Padilla, Ossoff, Welch, Butler, 
Graham, Grassley, Cornyn, Lee, Cruz, Hawley, Cotton, Kennedy, 
and Blackburn.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD J. DURBIN,
           A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

    Chair Durbin. This meeting of the Senate Judiciary 
Committee will come to order. I first want to apologize to the 
witnesses and everyone present. Annually, the Judicial 
Conference of the United States meets in the Supreme Court and 
invites me and others to come and say a few words in the 
morning. That's where I was, so blame the Chief Justice. And I 
say that facetiously. I was honored to be invited.
    This hearing, A Threat to Justice Everywhere: Stemming the 
Tide of Hate Crimes in America, will come to order. At the 
outset, I want to acknowledge the possible attempted 
assassination of former President Trump. I'm relieved that no 
one was hurt, and I thank the Secret Service and their law 
enforcement partners for keeping the former President safe. My 
staff was briefed by the Secret Service over the weekend, and 
we were asked to keep--we asked them to keep us updated on the 
investigation. As we will discuss today, violence and threats 
of violence are always wrong, no matter the motive and no 
matter the target.
    I first held hearings on the growing threat of hate-
motivated violence in 2011; again in 2012, after a white 
supremacist murdered seven worshippers at the Sikh Gurdwara in 
Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Since I became Chair of this Committee, 
we've held several more hearings on the subject, including a 
hearing after the hostage crisis at the Colleyville, Texas 
synagogue, where we heard compelling testimony from 
Colleyville's rabbi, Charlie Cytron-Walker.
    The FBI's most recent National hate crimes statistics 
document 11,634 hate crimes, the highest number since the FBI 
began reporting data. And since the horrific October 7 Hamas 
attack on Israel, we have seen an increase in attacks on Jewish 
Americans, Palestinian Americans, Arab Americans, and Muslim 
Americans. I would like to play a video now to highlight two 
especially horrific incidents.
    [Video eis shown.]
    Chair Durbin. I'd like to acknowledge that my constituent, 
Hanaan Shahin, Wadea Al-Fayoume's mother, is in the audience. I 
was honored to join my colleagues Senator Tammy Duckworth and 
Congresswoman Delia Ramirez, introducing a resolution honoring 
Wadea. Mrs. Shahin, I'm so sorry for your devastating loss.
    We are also joined by Alan Mallinger; his wife, Lauren; and 
their daughter Amy Rose Mallinger. Alan's mother and Amy's 
grandmother was one of the 11 congregants murdered at the Tree 
of Life Synagogue, the deadliest attack on Jews in American 
history. I thank these survivors personally, and their families 
and friends, for joining us this morning.
    Since 2000, according to Federal law enforcement, white 
supremacists have been responsible for more homicides than any 
other domestic extremist group. White supremacists have been 
more responsible than any other domestic extremist group. And 
just this month, the Justice Department arrested and indicted 
the leaders of the Terrorgram Collective, a white supremacist 
terrorist group that allegedly solicits attacks against 
minority communities and the assassination of U.S. public 
officials, including a Jewish Senator.
    Free speech is sacred in America, but public officials on 
both sides of the aisle have a responsibility not to fan the 
flames of hatred. The former President and his Vice 
Presidential candidate have both spread the lie that Haitians 
in Springfield, Ohio are eating cats and dogs. Everyone in 
public life should condemn antisemitic and racist language and 
disassociate themselves from demagogues who traffic in it. This 
type of rhetoric can have deadly consequences. In recent days, 
there have been numerous bomb and shooting threats in 
Springfield, Ohio, and schools and other institutions have been 
forced to close.
    And look at the Tree of Life Synagogue shooting. On social 
media, the shooter claimed that Jewish Americans were 
conspiring to destroy the white race by encouraging non-white 
immigrants to invade our country. This antisemitic and racist 
Great Replacement conspiracy theory was also cited by the white 
supremacists who murdered 10 Black Americans at the Tops Market 
in Buffalo in 2022. In recent years, it has been echoed by the 
former President and other political figures. Political 
leaders, both Democrats and Republicans, must condemn hate 
wherever and whenever is it spewed and avoid rhetoric that 
could incite violence, because hate is inconsistent with who we 
are as Americans and the diversity that has always strengthened 
our Nation. With that, I'll turn to the Ranking Member, Senator 
Graham, for his opening statement.

              STATEMENT OF HON. LINDSEY O. GRAHAM,
        A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA

    Senator Graham. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Number one, as to 
the recent apparent attempt on President Trump's life, I do 
want to thank the Secret Service agents on the ground for 
acting quickly and responsibly, but when I heard the acting 
director say the system worked, I could not disagree more. It 
did not work. You can't have a man camped out by the golf 
course for 12 hours with an AK-47 and scope on it, and say the 
system worked. We're just very fortunate he stuck the barrel 
through the fence before the President got to the golf hole in 
question. I want to applaud the Secret Service agent who saw 
the barrel, but this could've been a completely different story 
if the man had just waited, saw President Trump, then acted.
    The system is just broken. I don't know if it's resources. 
I asked the acting director before. He said they're fine. I 
don't buy that. Agents tell me they're working tremendous 
hours. I'd like to have more agents, not less. I'd like to get 
the Secret Service back into Treasury, where they were more 
focused, but we'll talk about that another day. I'm just glad 
we didn't have a worse outcome, but I think the system is 
broken.
    As to our hearing today, on May the 2nd, 2024, all 
Republicans wrote a letter to Chairman Durbin: we implore you 
to promptly hold a Judiciary Committee hearing to confront the 
flagrant civil rights violations targeting Jewish students on 
college campuses across America and expose the radical Islamic 
ideology infiltrating our universities. The goal was to have a 
hearing about why it's so hard to go to school if you're 
Jewish.
    And it's really hard to go to these schools if you're 
Jewish. You're being knocked down; you're being spat on. It is 
just completely out of control. This is not the hearing we're 
getting, so, we'll work with what we've got. The House has had 
10 hearings focused on antisemitism on the rise like it was in 
the 30's, in my view. We're not talking about fringe elements 
within any one group or crazy people. They exist throughout 
society. What happened to the 6-year-old is just horrible. The 
man will get whatever comes his way, and to me it's not enough.
    I'm trying to focus on a systematic problem. America has a 
systematic problem on college campuses. It is being funded, the 
DNI says, not by Qatar, but by Iran. So, we have to deal with 
this. This Committee should act not just in general but 
specifically about what it's like to be Jewish in America in 
2024. And it is not a good story.
    So, I want to introduce into the record the original 
request, if I may, and also introduce into the record a letter 
I've got from the Union of Jewish Congregations of America, if 
I may introduce both letters, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Without objection.
    [The information appears as a submission for the record.]
    Senator Graham. Okay. Now, the problem is really unnerving. 
Two point 4 percent of Americans are Jewish. Sixty percent of 
all religious-based hate crimes have been directed against the 
Jewish people. There's something going on here that needs to be 
addressed and better dealt with, and people in charge of these 
universities need to be held more accountable.
    As to what I'm trying to do, I've been working since last 
April with the Biden administration to find a way to normalize 
between Saudi Arabia and the State of Israel. That, to me, is 
the answer to many problems that we face, Israel faces. And I'm 
a strong advocate for ending the Arab-Israeli conflict. And a 
beneficiary of that would be a Palestinian community better 
treated, not run by terrorists, with a more hopeful life and a 
secure Israel. Count me in for trying to end conflict. Count me 
in for trying to reconcile the Arab and Jewish communities in 
the Mideast and anywhere else.
    That's not what I'm talking about today. I'm talking about 
a rise throughout the world, but particularly here, against the 
Jewish people. Examples of what you face: Columbia University, 
intifada; Stanford University, somebody wearing a Hamas 
headband; Princeton University, the Hamas material; Union 
Station, July the 24th, Hamas is coming. This is all over the 
country right now.
    And let me just say this. Hamas is a homicidal terrorist 
group dedicated not to uplifting the Palestinian people but 
destroying the State of Israel. So, when you write Hamas, 
you're either one of two things: blatantly antisemitic or dumb 
as a rock. I'll let you pick. Hamas is a terrorist 
organization. Everybody should condemn Hamas, not use their 
name routinely and hold up their cause throughout college 
campuses in America. So, what I hope we can get started in this 
country is a conversation about what should be the result of 
attending a school and being picked upon simply because of your 
religion: in this case, being Jewish. The next one.
    One of our witnesses says calling for the genocide of the 
State of Israel should not get you disciplined. It should. It 
should. You know, when David Duke was on colleges' campuses in 
his time, handing out Nazi stuff, he should've been 
disciplined. I disagree with that. I believe in free speech, 
but I don't believe in advocating for the killing of an entire 
class of people. That's not free speech.
    So, what we have before us today as a Nation is a moment of 
choosing. We can choose to ignore this, lump it in with every 
other problem we've got in the country, or we can focus on it. 
I prefer to focus on it. I prefer to let the American Jewish 
community know, enough is enough. We're going to be there for 
you. We're going to have your back. And we're not rising to the 
occasion. I would urge my friends on the other side: let's have 
a hearing focused on this problem, not lumping this problem in 
with every other problem we have. This is unique to the time in 
which we live. It is getting out of control.
    As to rhetoric, yes, we can all do better. I get that. But 
this idea that one group is going to destroy America or one 
person's going to destroy America needs to come to an end. 
Nobody's going to destroy America. The Iranians would, if they 
could. So, Mr. Chairman, I hope we can follow-up with another 
hearing focused on our original request, which is combating 
antisemitism on college campuses making it really difficult, if 
you're a Jewish parent, to send your kid to college.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Graham, you and I agree on more than 
we disagree, and we certainly agree that hate crimes should be 
treated seriously, whatever their origin, whatever their 
purpose. They are unacceptable in this Nation of ours. 
Prioritizing which group is being discriminated against the 
worst I don't believe is a valid exercise of our authority 
here. What we are trying to do is to identify a problem in 
America that extends beyond the Jewish population to the Arab 
population to the Palestinian population. All of those hate 
crimes are unacceptable. All of them are unacceptable.
    The letter which you asked me to enter into the record 
calls on us to pass a bill that I know quite well, the Domestic 
Terrorism Prevention Act. That bill passed the House of 
Representatives. It was called by Senator Schumer in the 
Senate. It's a bill that I sponsored. It was stopped on the 
floor and filibustered by the Republican side. I don't want to 
draw a conclusion about their views on hatred and violence, but 
I think we all ought to acknowledge the fact that work needs to 
be done, and we shouldn't tie ourselves in knots but should 
work toward ending hate crimes in America.
    At this point, we're going to turn to the witnesses who 
appear before us. I'll introduce the majority witnesses. The 
Ranking Member will introduce the minority witness. Our first 
witness is Maya Berry, co-chair of the Hate Crimes Task Force 
at The Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights. She is 
also the executive director of the Arab American Institute. We 
are also joined by Ken Stern, director of the Bard Center for 
the Study of Hate. Mr. Stern previously served as director of 
the Division of Antisemitism and Extremism at the American 
Jewish Committee, where he worked for 25 years. Ranking Member 
Graham, would you like to introduce your witness?
    Senator Graham. Mr. Chairman, our witness is Rabbi Mark 
Goldfeder. He is CEO and director of the National Jewish 
Advocacy Center. He was appointed in 2021 to the United States 
Holocaust Memorial Museum Council. He handles cases involving 
antisemitism in its many manifestations and has worked with 
local, State, Federal legislatures on measures to support the 
Jewish community. He is also an attorney. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Graham. After I swear in 
the witnesses, each one will have 5 minutes to provide an 
opening statement. There will be rounds of questions. Each 
Senator will have 5 minutes, and please try to remain within 
your time. So, would each of the witnesses please stand to be 
sworn in?
    [Witnesses are sworn in.]
    Let the record reflect that both--that all witnesses have 
answered in the affirmative. Ms. Berry, you may proceed with 
your opening statement. Make sure your microphone is on.

          STATEMENT OF MAYA BERRY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR,
            ARAB AMERICAN INSTITUTE; CO-CHAIR, HATE
          CRIMES TASK FORCE, THE LEADERSHIP CONFERENCE
                   ON CIVIL AND HUMAN RIGHTS

    Ms. Berry. Good morning, Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member 
Graham, and distinguished Members of this Committee. Thank you 
for convening this hearing today to address the crisis of hate 
crime in our country. I want to begin by offering my 
condolences and support to Im [phonetic] Wadea on the tragic 
loss of her son. I also want to acknowledge the members of the 
Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh, who are also here, and 
extend my condolences and the support to them, as well. I'm 
truly sorry for your immeasurable loss, and the commitment that 
we make to continue to focus on hate is rooted in the need to 
address the crisis your families in pain have endured.
    Understanding the nature of hate crime data, I would 
suggest this room includes other victims of hate crimes: some 
who have reported it, others who have not; some where the 
assailant was charged with a hate crime, and others where they 
were not. In all cases, it was an assault or a murder, arson or 
vandalism, or a threat to commit such a crime, and the 
motivation for committing the crime was based on an 
individual's action or perceived personal characteristics of 
the victim's identity. In all cases, it was a crime where the 
immediate victim was harmed as well as others who may be like 
them, their community. Hate crimes instill fear in communities, 
and because the safety of us all is linked--because we are, on 
a very basic level, all in one community with one another--hate 
crimes impact our entire country. As we attempt to address this 
hate crime crisis we are in, we are well served remembering 
that.
    Why do I say a hate crime crisis? Because our government's 
official hate crime statistics provide the data confirming this 
crisis. From 2015 to 2022, we have seen a 99 percent increase 
in hate crime: 99 percent increase from just under 6,000 
reported hate crimes in 2015 to 11,643 in 2022. The FBI's 2023 
data has not been released yet, but based on the state data AI 
has pulled in preparation for this hearing, it is likely we 
will see yet another consecutive-year increase. Every single 
year since the 2016 Presidential election, the trajectory has 
been a dangerous increase of hate crimes in our country.
    Anti-Black or African-American hate crimes continue to be a 
plurality of all hate crimes reported. There were 3,424 in 
2022. Anti-Asian or Pacific Islander hate crime saw a major 
spike in hate, the most acute stages during the COVID-19 
pandemic and its surrounding discourse by some elected 
officials. Anti-Muslim hate crimes were nearly 5 percent of all 
reported hate crimes during the 2016 Presidential election and 
the discussions of a Muslim ban. The only year with a higher 
record was 2001, in the post-9/11 backlash.
    Anti-Hispanic and Latino hate crimes have shown a 
persistent increase, with a record-breaking 738 hate crimes in 
2022. The annual number of reported hate crimes targeting the 
Latino community has increased in the last 7 years on a manner 
that has outpaced the overall increase of all reported hate, 
and while we've seen an increase--all of this while we've seen 
an increase in anti-immigrant rhetoric and xenophobia, 
particularly being experienced right now by the Haitian-
American community.
    LGBTQ and hate crime almost doubled from 2015 to 2022, with 
1,925 on record in 2022. And while the annual number of hate 
crimes based on sexual orientation now represents a smaller 
share of all the hate crimes reported each year, that is not 
the case with gender identity hate crimes, which have increased 
4 percent--all reported in 2022.
    With regard to Arab Americans and Jewish Americans, we took 
a deep dive into the data after October 7 by examining 
available State-level data from 27 States and the District of 
Columbia. And with all the necessary caveats about State-level 
versus Federal data, here, too, the data confirms what we know. 
Anti-Arab has increased from 104 in 2022 to 180 in 2023; anti-
Jewish from 1,311 to 2,073. Further, isolating our October-
December for the 21 States and DC where we could do that, it 
shows about half of all of the incidents reported in 2023 
occurred in the last 3 months: October, November, and December. 
That's a 54 percent increase for Arab Americans. I'm sorry. 
Yes, 54, and 49 for Jewish Americans.
    Wadea Al-Fayoume's murder in his home in Illinois; the 
attempted murder of Hisham Awartani, Kinnan Abdalhamid, and 
Tahseen Aliahmad in Vermont, while three college students were 
out for a walk, wearing their keffiyehs and speaking 
occasionally in Arabic, is another example, as is the unnamed 
25-year-old Brooklyn man attacked with a baseball bat after 
being defamed. The backlash effect is real for both 
communities, and the historic levels of hate crimes we're 
experiencing harm individuals, communities, and our country. We 
can and must respond more effectively. Thank you again for the 
opportunity to testify before you today, and I look forward to 
your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Berry appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Ms. Berry. Rabbi Goldfeder. Would 
you make sure your microphone is on? Thank you.

             STATEMENT OF MARK GOLDFEDER, DIRECTOR,
       NATIONAL JEWISH ADVOCACY CENTER, ATLANTA, GEORGIA

    Rabbi Goldfeder. Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member Graham, 
Members of the Committee, good morning. My name is Mark 
Goldfeder. I'm director of the National Jewish Advocacy Center, 
a nonprofit legal organization that combats antisemitism in all 
of its forms. It is an honor to appear before you to address 
this important topic, and I also extend my condolences to the 
families of the victims. May God comfort you.
    Senators, it is no secret that antisemitism has skyrocketed 
since Hamas's brutal October 7 massacre. On college campuses 
across the country, between hiding from mobs in libraries, 
avoiding dining halls because of death threats, and removing 
Nazi symbols from Chabad houses, Jewish students have been 
subjected to campaigns that employ classic antisemitism tropes 
and calls for them to be removed from campus if they dare 
identify as Zionists, which the vast majority of Jews do. In 
2023, antisemitism assault incidents increased by 45 percent, 
vandalism by 69 percent, and antisemitic harassment increased 
by 184 percent.
    Those aren't speech incidents. Those are hate crimes. Let 
me be clear. Hate speech, no matter how offensive, is protected 
by the First Amendment, but assault and battery, arson, 
trespassing, vandalism, breaking and entering, destruction of 
property, harassment, and true threats are all examples of 
unlawful antisemitic behavior and hate crimes that have 
happened in the last few months and that can and should be 
regulated, which brings me to the next point.
    In hearing about hate crimes, why am I focusing 
specifically on anti-Jewish hate crimes? Three reasons. First, 
there is an acute problem taking place right now, before our 
very eyes. The majority of religiously motivated hate crimes 
are committed against Jewish people, and the numbers are 
getting worse. We need to deal with that reality now, before 
more people get hurt. Second, it's not about Jewish 
exceptionalism. It's about equality. There's an equal 
protection problem here, and it's definitional, and it can be 
fixed.
    Third, it's important to address antisemitism in the 
context of the broader hate crimes conversation because what 
starts with the Jews never ends with the Jews. It did not take 
very long for the chants to morph from Death to Israel to Death 
to America, and from spray-painting Hillel houses and 
desecrating menorahs to disrupting Pride marches, defacing 
George Washington's statue, and vandalizing the Freedom Bell. 
Stopping antisemitic hate crimes is a matter of self-
preservation for all Americans, because even if you aren't 
Jewish, they are coming for you next. Just ask them. They 
aren't shy.
    And so, I'd like to talk about solutions. Here are three 
practical steps to stem the tide of unlawful hate directed 
against Jewish Americans, to the benefit of all Americans. 
First, please use your oversight powers to ensure that our laws 
are enforced as written. This includes, of course, Title VI of 
the Civil Rights Act, but also laws like the Immigration and 
Nationality Act, that deal with foreign students providing 
support to terrorist organizations. Student groups are openly 
working as agents of Hamas. They are handing out recruitment 
flyers on our campuses on a daily basis. My organization, NJAC, 
has brought five anti-terrorist suits since October 7, to go 
after some of these bad actors, but we should not have to do 
that.
    Second, Congress should clarify or ask the DOJ to clarify 
what should be obvious: the First Amendment is not a free pass 
to threaten, harass, intimidate, or otherwise violate the 
rights of others. And, finally, because Jewish identity is so 
multifaceted, without a standard definition for authorities to 
reference when they're analyzing the intent behind illegal, 
discriminatory actions--not speech--it is too easy for 
antisemites to hide behind this ambiguity and commit unlawful 
acts against Jews with impunity.
    The Antisemitism Awareness Act solves this problem by 
requiring the relevant authorities to consider, as contextual, 
rebuttable evidence, the International Holocaust Remembrance 
Alliance, IHRA, definition of antisemitism. And, no, the Act 
does not curb speech. It's not a he-said, she-said debate. You 
can go ahead and read the operative language yourself. Title VI 
violations, by definition, do not include speech.
    The definition also contains appropriate safeguards that 
take into account the importance of nuance and context in 
situations that involve allegations of discriminatory intent--
for example, the explicit caveat that all of the examples given 
are not dispositive but could, taking into account the overall 
context, be evidence of antisemitism. There are very few things 
that the Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden administrations have 
agreed on, but the IHRA definition is one of them, not to 
mention a supermajority of U.S. States that have embraced it 
and the vast majority of Jewish people across every ideological 
spectrum.
    Of course, Jews are not monolithic, and there is a small 
minority within the Jewish community that does not support it, 
but they do not represent the Jewish community, which has 
spoken in a loud and clear voice. Every major Jewish 
organization in this country, by estimates of membership over 
90 percent of American Jews, support this bill wholeheartedly. 
That is more than a consensus, Senators. That is a mandate. Nor 
is the bill merely symbolic. Of course, our current laws should 
capture antisemitism, but in practice, they don't. I'm general 
counsel to 24 Hillels in the State of Georgia. In one instance 
last October, a group of students surrounded a Jewish peer, 
threw him to the ground, said, we're going to kill you, your 
family, and all Israelis. The boy is not Israeli, just Jewish. 
Police decided it was not a hate crime because he said Israel, 
not Jew.
    I'll conclude by pointing out the obvious. Protecting 
Jewish people does not come at the expense of any other group. 
You can be vigorously pro-Palestinian without being 
antisemitism. You can even be virulently antisemitic without 
committing unlawful actions. But all too often, that is not 
what is happening. I stand ready to work with the Committee and 
any Member on this important matter and welcome your questions. 
Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Rabbi Goldfeder appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you very much, Rabbi. Mr. Stern.

            STATEMENT OF KENNETH S. STERN, DIRECTOR,
               BARD CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF HATE,
                       BROOKLYN, NEW YORK

    Mr. Stern. Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member Graham, and the 
other honorable Members of the Committee, my name is Kenneth 
Stern. I direct the Bard Center for the Study of Hate, and I 
also worked at the American Jewish Committee for 25 years, 
where I directed the Division on Antisemitism and Extremism.
    I want to share a framework to think about antisemitism and 
hate and hate crime and the campus and democracy. When people 
hate, whether they hate people of another race, religion, 
nationality, sexual orientation, or politics, they create 
simplicity and certainty. They are seduced by binary good-bad 
thinking and drawn to symbols. This is a human characteristic, 
rooted in how we divide the world into us and them. And people 
who want to combat hate--we're human, too, and not immune from 
the seductive illusion and comfort of simple answers to 
complicated questions.
    Antisemitism is, at heart, conspiracy theory that sees Jews 
as conspiring to harm humanity. It's offered as an explanation 
for what goes wrong in the world. It appears on the right and 
on the left. It's also the philosophical backbone of much white 
supremacy. But we tend to think about antisemitism as only what 
people say about Jews or Israel and not enough about how 
vilification of anyone among us can create a conveyor belt to 
antisemitism.
    As Senator Durbin mentioned, Alan, Lauren, and Amy 
Mallinger are in the audience today. Rose Mallinger, Alan's 
mother, Lauren's mother-in-law, Amy's grandmother, was murdered 
at the Tree of Life Synagogue. That shooting was clearly an act 
of antisemitism, but the background noise to the Tree of Life 
massacre was fear of immigrants. The synagogue was targeted 
because it had participated in a program supporting them. But 
you won't find, sitting here today, the relatives of the 23 
people killed when Mexicans and Mexican Americans were targeted 
at the Wal-Mart in El Paso. No one would call that an act of 
antisemitism. But the two shooters had nearly identical 
ideologies; they just chose different targets.
    To fight antisemitism and any form of hate requires a wide 
lens to understand these movements and what draws people to 
them, not simple filters that may be comforting. Strong 
democratic institutions, including the protection of free 
speech, are also important. That doesn't mean ignore hateful 
speech. It means we don't use levers of the state to chill or 
suppress speech we don't like, creating free-speech martyrs in 
the process.
    There have been antisemitic attacks on campus and, of 
course, as we know, hate directed at Palestinian, Arab, and 
Muslims, too. But there's a distinction being lost in much of 
this debate. No student should be the victim of bullying and 
harassment, intimidation, true threats, or discrimination, but 
there's an unfortunate expectation that a student should be 
protected from hearing things that cut them to their core. A 
university must be a place where students expect to be 
physically safe, not intellectually safe; where they're helped 
to ponder why that otherwise friendly student has views seen as 
ignorant at best, evil at worst.
    The questions we should be asking are, how do we improve 
the campus to encourage the intellectual imagination and 
emotional empathy? How do we use the tools from the academy to 
break down the us-versus-them problems outside the campus, too? 
There's an elephant in the room: the IHRA definition. And I'm 
happy to discuss why I believe codifying it will harm the fight 
against antisemitism, but let me conclude with things that I 
believe will help reduce antisemitism and other forms of hate.
    First, increase academic focus, both in teaching and 
research, on human hate and what to do about it. There are a 
number of hate study centers, but there should be more. Two, 
provide more funding to OCR and for the National strategy on 
antisemitism. Three, we need better data on hate crimes.
    Four, we also need data on the cost of hate crimes. Hate 
crimes don't only have a moral cost. They don't only traumatize 
families and communities. They cost each of us a veritable hate 
tax. My Bard colleague Mike Martell created an economic 
template to estimate the costs of hate crime, using the 2012 
murder at the Sikh temple in Wisconsin as a case study. And 
we're working with laypeople from the EDL in Phoenix to 
approximate the cost of hate crime there. Why isn't the 
government computing these costs?
    And, finally, the other day I was explaining a project 
we're developing with Boston University to help victims of hate 
crime find support, whether it be how to report a hate crime or 
counseling or other resources, using AI and social media to 
help them. We're in discussions with the Eradicate Hate Global 
Summit to see if they can incorporate some aspects of the 
planning into their work. The person asked, why isn't Congress 
figuring out creative ways to help more victims of hate crime, 
instead of you? It's a good question. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Stern appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you all for your testimony, and I'm 
sure there are some questions coming from my colleagues here. I 
guess one of the fundamental threshold questions is whether we 
can segregate--I hate to use that word--whether we can separate 
one type of hate crime and say, this is the worst; this is the 
priority; to the exclusion of the others, we're only going to 
deal with one. Ms. Berry.
    Ms. Berry. Thank you, Senator. My position is, I think not. 
We've worked collectively as a community to understand the 
nature of these hate crimes. As you said in your opening 
remarks, we have the highest number ever reported since the FBI 
started collecting the data in 1991. And the response has to be 
one that acknowledges all targeted communities are being 
impacted. So, our response has to be one that acknowledges that 
and, as a result, understands that singling out any one 
community doesn't actually get us all safer. I certainly agree 
that different communities are targeted at different times and 
perhaps for different reasons, but the underlying issue is one 
of hate and a crime, and we must respond accordingly.
    Chair Durbin. Rabbi, do you believe that language being 
used by politicians that dehumanize certain groups adds to this 
atmosphere of hate crime?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. Thank you, Senator, for the question. I 
think that all extreme political rhetoric is dangerous. Just 
look at the two recent attempts on President Trump's life. And 
I think that both sides should absolutely do their best to tone 
it down.
    Chair Durbin. And do you believe that, as politicians, if 
we set out to dehumanize groups like immigrants, does that have 
an impact on the conversation about hate crimes?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. Thank you, Senator. I think no group 
should ever be dehumanized, period.
    Chair Durbin. I couldn't agree with you more. Mr. Stern, 
you give the example of the El Paso Wal-Mart and the Pittsburgh 
synagogue and believe that, though the targets were different, 
the motivation was the same. Explain that.
    Mr. Stern. Well, and you had mentioned, Senator, the 
Buffalo shooting, too. If you look at the ideologies of the 
three shooters, they were a combination of seeing--hating 
immigrants, seeing people of color as a threat, and believing--
as my colleague Eric Ward, you know, articulated very well in 
an article called Skin in the Game, the white supremacy--the 
backbone of it is antisemitism. So, you can't really separate 
them all as saying, well, this is a problem only in one sense; 
this is a problem in another sense. They feed on each other.
    And I agree with the rabbi that, you know, antisemitism is 
a threat to democracy, a miner's canary, and so forth. But the 
flip side is also true: that vilifying anyone among us is a 
conveyor belt to antisemitism and helps people see the world 
as, why are we losing? Why were people at Charlottesville 
talking, Jews will not replace us? Because they saw that they 
were losing a place in society, they felt--and they thought 
that Jews were behind it. Again, antisemitism is Jews 
conspiring to harm humanity and giving an explanation for what 
goes wrong in the world. So, that's how I see these things as 
related.
    Chair Durbin. Ms. Berry, how do you draw the line--the 
conversation in a free society like America, when it comes to 
how far you can go? Can I disagree with Bibi Netanyahu and 
still stand up for Israel?
    Ms. Berry. That's entirely up to you, Senator, and I think 
the answer would certainly be yes. The issue is not the matter 
of speech, in terms of if it's objectionable or not, but why 
are you targeting an individual, and are you committing a crime 
in the process of targeting that individual? If you're 
targeting a person because of a protected category, that's a 
hate crime.
    And the importance of the point you're making about 
dehumanization and speech I think is absolutely critical, 
because, for example, I might say something, but that's 
entirely different than you would, Senator, the Chair of the 
Judiciary Committee saying something. Your standing in our 
society is such that you hold a certain importance as an 
elected official, and when our elected officials are engaging 
in dialog--again, not about policy disagreements, because you 
can have policy disagreements. It's when you target specific 
communities as the source of those problems; that's where we 
find ourselves in the place that we are, which is that we see 
spikes in hate against specific communities after comments are 
made.
    Our communities are targeted. We saw it during the 
pandemic. We see it now when we talk about immigrants the way 
that we do. We certainly see it across the board. I'm going to 
remind us again that anti-Black racism as an issue is the 
reason we continue to have a plurality of all hate crimes 
targeting the Black community.
    And the final point I would make is that since the hate 
crime data was collected, the anti-Jewish category in religion 
has always been the top category. There is undoubtedly a 
problem of antisemitism in this country. That goes without 
saying, and the data has verified that. It's, what are we doing 
to respond to it in the whole-of-society approach that is 
correctly focused on the actual problem?
    Chair Durbin. Thank you very much. Senator Graham.
    Senator Graham. To each witness--start with you, Ms. Berry. 
Do you believe it's very difficult right now for Jewish 
students to attend colleges in America?
    Ms. Berry. I think it can be for individual Jewish 
students.
    Senator Graham. No, I said, is it?
    Ms. Berry. It can--it depends on the individual students 
and----
    Senator Graham. Well, okay.
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. What they're encountering, yes.
    Senator Graham. Rabbi, do you think it is?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. Yes, almost impossible.
    Senator Graham. Mr. Stern.
    Mr. Stern. Senator, it depends on the campus. For many, 
absolutely so, but I would also add one other thing: that there 
are some Jewish students who are anti-Zionists, whose Judaism 
leads them to that position, and they are also getting----
    Senator Graham. Mr.----
    Mr. Stern [continuing]. Spat on.
    Senator Graham. I'm trying to establish a baseline. The 
reason we wrote the letter is so we see playing out before our 
eyes just an assault on Jewish students in colleges. I'm 
looking at systems, here. Does anybody--let me ask you. DNI 
said Iran--we have observed actors tied to Iran's government 
posing as activists online, seeking to encourage protests and 
even providing financial support to protesters. Does anybody 
doubt that? Okay. Mr. Stern, is it Hamas's goal to destroy the 
Jewish state?
    Mr. Stern. Absolutely. Hamas is----
    Senator Graham. Is it Hezbollah's goal to destroy the 
Jewish state?
    Mr. Stern. Absolutely.
    Senator Graham. Is it Iran's goal to destroy the Jewish 
state?
    Mr. Stern. Yes.
    Senator Graham. Okay. Ms. Berry, do you agree with that?
    Ms. Berry. I think these are complicated questions. I 
really don't want----
    Senator Graham. No, it's not. There's nothing----
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. To talk about foreign policy.
    Senator Graham [continuing]. Complicated about it. That's 
the most----
    Ms. Berry. Yes.
    Senator Graham [continuing]. Ridiculous testimony----
    Ms. Berry. Senator----
    Senator Graham [continuing]. Ever given in this Committee.
    Ms. Berry. Yes. So----
    Senator Graham. If you think it's----
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. All of those----
    Senator Graham [continuing]. Complicated to figure out that 
Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran wants to kill all the Jews----
    Ms. Berry. Yes.
    Senator Graham [continuing]. I should not listen to 
anything else you've got to say.
    Ms. Berry. Okay. May I----
    Senator Graham. And I won't.
    Ms. Berry. Senator----
    Senator Graham. Rabbi----
    Ms. Berry. If I may, Senator----
    Senator Graham. Rabbi--Rabbi----
    Ms. Berry. I think we started----
    Senator Graham [continuing]. Do you believe--do you believe 
that Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran are out to kill all the Jews 
and destroy Israel?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. I believe they're out to destroy the 
Jewish state and kill all the Jews----
    Senator Graham. Okay.
    Rabbi Goldfeder [continuing]. Both.
    Senator Graham. So, I do, too. And I believe Iran's behind 
this. And what I would like this Committee to do is deal with 
the systematic problems that exist regarding what's going on on 
American colleges today. What's going on on colleges today? 
There's an organized effort to intimidate, harass, and 
physically assault Jewish students. What's going on today is an 
effort on multiple fronts to wipe Israel off the map. This is 
not an academic discussion. As to what should happen, Mr. 
Stern, if a student on a college campus uses the N-word against 
African-American students, should they be expelled?
    Mr. Stern. I think if a student goes and harasses another 
student, says that to their face, that could be absolutely a 
matter for discipline.
    Senator Graham. Yes.
    Mr. Stern. However, I think if they're just standing up 
there with a sign or saying, this is what I think or a word I'm 
choosing, and not threatening somebody----
    Senator Graham. Yes.
    Mr. Stern [continuing]. And not harassing----
    Senator Graham. Yes.
    Mr. Stern [continuing]. Then that should be deplored----
    Senator Graham. But----
    Mr. Stern [continuing]. But it should not be the subject of 
discipline.
    Senator Graham. But do you agree with me it's--if African-
American students are being called the N-word and harassed and 
belittled by other students, those students should pay a price 
for that?
    Mr. Stern. I think if there's any type of harassment. 
Doesn't matter the word.
    Senator Graham. Yes.
    Mr. Stern. But if students are being harassed----
    Senator Graham. Well, the word does matter, if you're 
African American.
    Mr. Stern. Well----
    Senator Graham. Let----
    Mr. Stern [continuing]. What I'm saying is that no 
harassment should be tolerated----
    Senator Graham. Well, right. There you go. That's good. So, 
the idea that you could hold somebody accountable for using 
words makes sense to me, because free speech is a concept that 
we all hold near and dear, but words start wars. Words can 
incite violence. You can't yell fire in a theater. So, what I 
would say that's going on here is that we have to deal with the 
problem at its roots, first identifying it. America has many 
problems. There are people hateful to each other. That's been 
with us since there's been a country. We live in a unique 
moment in America, I think--and I'm trying to get us to focus 
on that moment--about not only a rise of antisemitism but an 
effort by agents of Iran and other powers to divide us here at 
home.
    What's so sad is that October the 7th was designed to 
destroy the reconciliation between Saudi Arabia and Israel. All 
the intel shows us that Iran struck Israel in such a vicious 
way to stop the reconciliation between Saudi Arabia and Israel. 
I believe that with all my heart. I don't want them to win. I 
want to normalize between Saudi Arabia and Israel. I want a 
better life for the Palestinian community. And it can never 
happen without Hamas being destroyed and never coming back. It 
can never happen without Hezbollah and Iran being contained. It 
can never happen without security for the state of Israel.
    So, what I would say without any hesitation--that what's 
going on in America on our campuses is worthy of a discussion 
all of its own. We need to get to the bottom of it and start 
holding people accountable who run these schools. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Whitehouse.
    Senator Whitehouse. Thanks very much, Chairman. Let me 
start by agreeing with Senator Graham that the peace framework 
that is being developed in the Middle East would be the very 
best outcome both for Israel and for the Palestinian people; 
that there are deliberate efforts out there to try to interfere 
with the conclusion of that piece, framework; and we're simply 
going to need to fight our way through those to achieve that 
goal. I would also concur with his statement that there are 
people hateful to each other in this country, but Ms. Berry, 
I'd like to ask you, in addition to people hateful to each 
other in this country, is there also strategically deployed 
misinformation and disinformation designed to accelerate and 
foment that hatefulness? And could you talk a little bit about 
that behind-the-scenes or backstage effort to make the 
hatefulness of some people worse and draw others into it?
    Ms. Berry. Thank you, Senator Whitehouse. You're absolutely 
right. And I regret that Senator Graham has left the room, 
because what I would've added was that the point he's making 
about foreign actors attempting to sow division in our country 
is quite real. Certainly, Iran was that. We saw a lot of it 
happening during the 2020 election, as well, where a particular 
line of potential division would then be inundated on the 
various social media platforms with fake--disinformation and 
misinformation targeting those communities, just literally to 
spread the hatred. So, an individual may or may not have taken 
that position at all, but rather all of a sudden inundated with 
these memes that are reinforcing this small potential idea I 
had, and I'm running with it. And it's----
    Senator Whitehouse. And our intelligence----
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. Highly problematic.
    Senator Whitehouse [continuing]. Services have pointed also 
to Russia as an agent of----
    Ms. Berry. That's correct.
    Senator Whitehouse [continuing]. Disinformation and 
misinformation intended to interfere with and disrupt our 
elections to the point where the Department of Justice has 
announced criminal allegations. So, what would your 
recommendations be for going directly at that problem of 
strategic and, particularly, foreign misinformation and 
disinformation designed to damage our democracy using hate as 
its tool of destruction?
    Ms. Berry. The good news is that the Department of Justice, 
I think, is taking this very seriously and has. The challenge 
for us is that we continue to be in this space with the social 
media platforms not, frankly, responding adequately to the 
spread of hate on their sites. So, until we have a better sense 
of how we can address that, one would argue actually that 
Twitter--X, formerly known as Twitter, has now taken us to a 
place where it's gotten considerably worse; where even the 
other social media platforms, for example, who had complete 
programs in place to address the 2020 election have not 
prepared those same programs to protect us from disinformation, 
because I think the landscape has changed dramatically.
    Senator Whitehouse. Would it be helpful to better 
understand the financing of these groups and to have better 
resources to trace back from the domestic attack----
    Ms. Berry. Yes.
    Senator Whitehouse [continuing]. On our democracy using 
hatred back to the foreign interests that finance this, likely 
through multiple intermediary shell organizations, to try to 
obscure their hand in that glove?
    Ms. Berry. I think that's exactly why the Department of 
Justice is such a critical player in this space: the need to 
address this. It's different than maligned actors who kind of 
put this information out. There's clearly an agenda in play 
here, and I would suggest part of the--excuse me, Senator, for 
this point, but part of the reason it was difficult to address 
the first question sort of correctly is what I was trying to 
say is that we have state actors that are attempting to 
influence our democracy in a very harmful way. To suggest that 
a national movement and a national organic student movement 
that's come together to support Palestinian human rights is the 
same thing is really highly problematic. And the final point I 
would--if I may, I would make--what I was saying was the part 
that's complicated----
    Senator Whitehouse. Well, my time's about to----
    Ms. Berry. I apologize.
    Senator Whitehouse [continuing]. Run out, so let me----
    Ms. Berry. Yes.
    Senator Whitehouse [continuing]. Just make my last point, 
which is that they call these covert operations for a reason, 
and I think we'd all be better off if there were much more 
visibility into the financial links behind these front groups 
that propagate this kind of poison, so that press, public, not 
just the technical money laundering experts at the Department 
of Justice, but more spotlights of American democracy can be 
put on these schemes. Thanks very----
    Ms. Berry. Thank you.
    Senator Whitehouse [continuing]. Much. My time is expired.
    Ms. Berry. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Grassley.
    Senator Grassley. Yes. Mr. Chairman, before I ask 
questions, I have two articles. One highlights actors with ties 
to Iran attempting to influence and finance anti-Israel 
protests in our country. This other article mentions that 
Russia is also trying to exploit divisions over the Israel-
Hamas conflict. Rabbi----
    Chair Durbin. Without objection, they'll be entered in the 
record. Proceed, Senator.
    [The information appears as a submission for the record.]
    Senator Grassley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Are some of the 
higher education institutions, either wittingly or unwittingly, 
shielding or even fostering antisemitism in the United States 
today, Rabbi?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. Thank you, Senator, for that question. 
Yes. I'll point you to a study done by the Institute for the 
Study of Global Antisemitism and Policy which found that at 
least 100 American colleges and universities illegally withheld 
information on approximately $13 billion in undocumented 
contributions from foreign governments, many of which are 
authoritarian. The study found higher levels of antisemitic 
incidents reported on those campuses from 2015 to 2020. 
Institutions that accepted money from Middle Eastern donors 
had, on average, 300 percent more antisemitic incidents on 
campus than institutions that did not. And campus-level 
antisemitic incidents, by the way, forward predict county-level 
antisemitic incidents, including hate crimes.
    Senator Grassley. Further question, Rabbi. Have the 
Department of Justice and Department of Education in this 
administration done enough to address epidemics of hate speech 
and antisemitism on the college campuses? And if the answer is 
yes or no, what more should the administration do, from your 
opinion?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. Unfortunately, they have done nowhere near 
enough. They should enforce the laws as written, including 
Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. If the words of Title 
VI mean anything, it talks about, you know, behavior that is 
severe and pervasive enough that it interferes with a person's 
education. They have to mean something. That has to include 
what's happening to Jewish students on campus right now. And we 
have seen zero universities lose their funding, even as these 
encampments literally force Jews out of parts of the school. 
So, no, they have not done more, and they should also enforce 
laws like the Nationality Act, which prohibit foreign students 
from providing material support to terrorism.
    Senator Grassley. Yes. You gave some evidence about the 
amount of money being spent by terrorist groups, but what have 
you discovered about Hamas's potential funding of college 
protests, and what evidence have you relied on to form your 
opinion?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. Well, it actually goes beyond funding, 
Senator. Going back to the Supreme Court case in Holder v. 
Humanitarian Law, in 2010, it's not just money that counts. 
It's services, as well. And unfortunately, these student groups 
on campus are literally acting as the PR agents of Hamas. Some 
countries spend up to $200 million a year on PR firms. Hamas 
can't, because they're an FTO, but immediately after October 7, 
some of these groups, like the National Students for Justice in 
Palestine, came out and said, we are not just in solidarity 
with this movement; we are part of this movement. They chanted, 
we are Hamas. And when a group tells you that they are trying 
to provide material support to terrorists, you should believe 
them. And so, it's not just an exchange of money. It's a 
coordination with Hamas that is a terrible problem.
    Senator Grassley. In the same vein as my question just 
asked, there've been media reports citing Iran, Russia, and 
other International actors as taking advantage and stoking 
civil right unrest here. What do you think--Rabbi, what do you 
think can be done to counter this malignant influence?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. I think in general, Senator, we need 
better tracking of the kind of donations that are coming from 
overseas, whether it's to 501(c)(3)'s that are, in theory, 
acting as charities but are actually, you know, as in the case 
of the Palestine Chronicle, for example, literally paying money 
to a terrorist that was holding four hostages in his house--
three hostages in his house. I think that it would behoove the 
U.S. Government to remove the tax status of any charity that 
provides material support to terrorists.
    Senator Grassley. Yes. And I think you've talked around 
this next question I have, but I'd like to ask it more 
directly, Rabbi. What has allowed for the recent rise of 
antisemitism and hate in our communities?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. Senator, that's a very hard question to 
answer. It is really difficult to talk about why antisemitism 
persists. It's the kind of thing that is a mutating virus. 
Different parts of society hate Jews for being whatever they 
don't like. So, Jews are at the same time too strong and too 
weak; they're parasitic and overpowering; they are superhuman, 
like in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, or they're 
subhuman, like in Nazi ideology. What has led to the problem 
and the infestation of antisemitism is the fact that we don't 
have clear definitions that authorities can use to rely on when 
they're trying to assess the intent behind antisemitic crime.
    So, for example, everyone here knows that if you attack a 
Chinese person because you think they have unfair trade 
policies, that is ethnic or national origin discrimination. If 
you attack a Russian person because you think Russia should not 
have invaded Ukraine, that is national origin or ethnic 
discrimination. But if you attack a Jewish person because you 
hate Israel, for some reason there's some confusion. We need 
clear definitions, and that will do the job.
    Senator Grassley. Thank you.
    Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Thank you very much, Senator 
Grassley. Thank you to our witnesses and to the Chair and 
Ranking Member for holding this important hearing. I'm a former 
prosecutor; enforced some of our State hate crimes laws put 
in--Andy Luger, our U.S. Attorney, who has been--enforced those 
laws on the Federal level, as well. And I think that's a big 
piece of this.
    Another piece of this--coming from a State that has a large 
Jewish population, the country's largest Somali population, 
second-largest Hmong population, and one of the largest 
Ethiopian populations, I believe that we also have to do 
everything that we can on the local level to stand above the 
hate that we're seeing on the internet and the hate that we're 
seeing across the world right now. And I always remember the 
story of when a threat was made, a serious threat, on our 
Jewish Community Center and all the kids had to run out, in 
their swimming suits in the middle of the winter, of the 
Center. When they got back to the Center, the first call, 
message for them, was from the neighboring Islamic center that 
offered them a place to go if they could not return to their 
own community center.
    So, I think a lot of this is going to be on all of us to 
stand above this, and I appreciate it very much, the discussion 
today. I guess I'd start, Ms. Berry--we have, I know, in our 
State, just last year, as many as 25 Jewish schools and 
religious facilities receiving bomb threats. We had a serious 
case of white supremacists bombing an Islamic center in 
Bloomington, Minnesota that was investigated and, in fact, 
prosecuted on the Federal level. We have seen on the national 
level all this has been discussed--388 percent rise in 
antisemitic incidences since this time last year and 216 
percent increase in requests for help and reported bias against 
Muslims since October 7.
    Your testimony goes into recent data on hate crimes. Can 
you talk more about the threats that we have seen since October 
7 and also if there's an actual underreporting of this; that 
the numbers might even be worse than what we're hearing?
    Ms. Berry. Thank you, Senator. I would start on your--what 
you concluded with. Without a doubt, there's a massive and 
chronic underreporting problem with regards to all hate crimes 
in our country. On--the highest on record was last year, with 
11,000-plus. Based on the Bureau of Justice Statistics at the 
Department of Justice, the estimate is that we capture about 1 
percent of actual hate crimes that occur. So, even that we went 
through and pulled the data for the 27 States plus the District 
of Columbia and have already arrived at higher numbers than--
the year is not complete--higher numbers than we saw the year 
prior, I would suggest that those are dramatically 
underreported.
    And you represent, as you said, a state of--a wonderful, 
diverse State that--actually, one of the top ten States in the 
country in terms of Arab Americans who live in your State, 
there. There are also different barriers that show up for 
reporting that I think we have to address. Specific communities 
sometimes have concerns that are related to law enforcement, 
the relationship with it, that may be a barrier. The issue of 
training of law enforcement is also critical. My fellow witness 
gave an example of someone being targeted and the idea that 
Israeli is the reason they weren't charged with a hate crime--
that, to me, strikes me as a deeply problematic training 
problem, if you--Israeli is national origin. If a person was 
targeted because of their national origin, that's a hate crime 
and should be treated as such.
    In terms of the post-October 7 situation, as our data has 
sort of demonstrated--is that we are seeing, without a doubt, 
an increase for both communities. And it continues to be one 
where, frankly, the challenge has been that we're not having 
the conversation about the hate crimes. We're having 
conversations about speech and how you define this; how do you 
do that--when the reality is, we're already seeing a dramatic 
increase. And students are being targeted. The FBI released a 
report that looked at the increase in hate crimes on college 
campuses recently, and it's one we ought to pay attention to. 
It's just needing to keep the focus on the hate crime issue.
    Senator Klobuchar. I just--thank you. Appreciate it. I want 
to get some other answers, but I also would add, as I was 
specifically focused on some of the religious institutions and 
what we're seeing, we have this program, bipartisan basis, that 
we put forward for these security grants for religious 
institutions that I know, in my State, five million alone, 
especially after some of the threats that we've seen, that I 
think have been helpful, and I hope that we will continue to 
fund this in this budget coming at the end of the year.
    One thing that we haven't talked about, Rabbi--and I 
appreciate your words on the laws and what we need to do; I 
truly do--is just online and what's been going on there. A 
number of us on this Committee have focused on these issues 
with putting some rules of the road in place on tech. Not going 
to go into that right now, but examples of how people have 
become arguably radicalized by what they've seen on the 
internet: attacks against the Jewish community in Colleyville, 
Texas; Black community at Emmanuel AME Church in Charleston; 
Hispanic community in the Wal-Mart in El Paso; LGBTQ community 
in Colorado Springs. So, you could just go through all of it. 
And do you believe that's been part of this? And how would you 
fix it? Because you have 1 minute, you know. I'm kidding. Go 
ahead.
    Rabbi Goldfeder. Thank you, Senator, for the question. 
Absolutely. It's an absolutely appalling and terrible problem. 
In the weeks after October 7, for instance, the phrase Hitler 
was right was trending on Twitter, which is an incredible, 
incredibly thing. Unfortunately, I think the best option here 
is education, and our kids aren't getting it. So, you know, for 
example, in the first month after October 7, I was dumbfounded, 
and I said, would these people online have actually supported 
Al Qaeda? And then a month later, it turns out, they would. And 
guess whose letter was trending? Bin Laden. We need better 
education about what they're posting, and it's not going to 
start online. It has to start way before that. It has to start 
in K through 12, at the university level, before they get 
online.
    Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Thank you very much. Do you want 
to add anything, Mr. Stern?
    Mr. Stern. Yes. To that I would add that I think there's 
lack of focus on the flip side of it, so the dangers of social 
media--how to use it more effectively against hate is something 
that I think should concern this Committee and it should 
support. On campus, for example, there's an AI program that 
someone named Simon Cullen, who's a professor at Carnegie 
Mellon, developed, called Sway. And it encourages students and 
anybody who has different points of view, whether it's 
abortion, Israel-Palestine, to moderate it, and it basically 
flags ad hominem attacks; it flags things that are hateful and 
says, would you want to rephrase it this way? It takes away the 
eye rolling; it takes away the anger and the steam. And it's 
sort of like John Stuart Mill, you know, on AI. And I think 
things like that will help in this process, too.
    Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you, 
Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Cornyn.
    Senator Cornyn. Rabbi, when we requested this hearing, we 
asked to focus on antisemitism, but I just want to ask you--if, 
in fact, antisemitic conduct and behavior is tolerated on 
college campuses or in our society in general, does that make 
it more likely that other religious or ethnic groups will also 
be treated in a similar abusive manner?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. Thank you, Senator, for the question. 
Absolutely. Again, Jews are often called the canary in the coal 
mine of intolerance. What starts with the Jews never ends with 
the Jews, and it hasn't taken long already for the public cries 
for Death to the Jews to become Death to America and burning 
flags on our campuses, as well.
    Senator Cornyn. So, if this sort of behavior is tolerated, 
it's a threat to all minority groups?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. It's a threat to our entire democracy, 
Senator.
    Senator Cornyn. Well, I want to talk specifically about the 
problems that some of the university presidents had in 
condemning antisemitism and enforcing their own rules against 
demonstrations on campus and the like. Harvard; University of 
California, Berkeley; Columbia; University of Pennsylvania; 
NYU; and Carnegie Mellon apparently all had difficulties 
drawing the line between permissible speech and impermissible 
conduct. But one university seems to stand out, and I'm proud 
of the fact the University of Texas, when this happened on 
campus--that a number of people not even affiliated with the 
university threatened to occupy the buildings at the campus and 
ignored officials' continued pleas for restraint, to 
immediately disperse--the university actually enforced its own 
rules. And is that the difference between what we saw in so 
many other places, that they simply tolerated this conduct, and 
the University of Texas did not, by enforcing its own rules?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. In short, yes, Senator. There has been a 
complete abdication of authority when it comes to the First 
Amendment. And university presidents and law school deans that 
unabashedly explain that the First Amendment is hard to 
understand and they can't possibly enforce its limits don't 
belong running universities or law schools. The First Amendment 
is not a free pass to threaten, harass, intimidate, or 
otherwise violate the rights of others. There are limits to 
what constitutes speech, and there are rules for when it 
crosses over into actionable conduct. And if you can see those 
rules when it applies to racist, sexist, homophobic, and 
misogynistic speech but not when it comes to antisemitism 
speech, your problem is not with that line. Your problem is 
with antisemitism.
    Senator Cornyn. So, normalizing this sort of antisemitism 
and the behavior that has been tolerated at so many of these 
universities is a threat to our society as a whole, 
specifically minorities, but if you see university leadership 
like that at the University of Texas actually enforcing its 
rules and taking action, that can help define what the 
community standards are and help protect all minorities. 
Correct?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. Absolutely.
    Senator Cornyn. So, I was intrigued by what you were 
discussing in terms of foreign countries contributing 
significant sums of money to colleges and universities and 
perhaps that having some influence on their policies. We have 
something called the Foreign Agents Registration Act, which 
Senator Grassley and others of us have been trying to reform, 
because we know that foreign countries actively hire lobbyists 
here in Washington, DC to lobby Members of Congress on 
legislation, without Members of Congress's knowledge that they 
are actually not--they're functioning on the part of foreign 
governments and not on behalf of their constituents, the 
American people.
    Could you explain a little bit more about the nature of 
that challenge? And do you support legislation that would 
tighten the disclosure requirements, in particular, so that we 
could know that foreign governments are actually the prime 
actors and funders of this activity, as opposed to some 
American?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. I absolutely support such legislation, and 
I will tell you that the problem actually goes further. You 
see, on campuses across the country--I don't know if any 
Senators have spent time inside any of these encampments or 
protests. I have. And if you walk to the center, you'll notice 
something fascinating, which is that, charitably, 20 percent of 
the people there know what river and what sea. Most of them are 
there for the pizza or because they have been genuinely misled 
into thinking that they are on the right side of history. And 
that is important because not only do they not know what 
they're doing; they don't know that they're actually in bed 
with terrorists.
    And that's why, again, our group, along with our partners 
at Greenberg Traurig, Holtzman Vogel, and others, brought the 
lawsuit against National Students for Justice in Palestine, to 
try and help draw the line, because maybe, maybe, if we could 
expose that, maybe the 80 percent would walk away from the 20 
percent of extremists, and we'd save 80 percent of our 
citizens, of our future Congressmen, Senators, and Presidents. 
And so, it's a deeply problematic issue that sometimes even the 
unfortunate useful idiots are not aware of.
    Senator Cornyn. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you. Senator Blumenthal.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thanks very much, Mr. Chairman, and 
thank you for having this hearing, and thank you to our 
witnesses. I think we're all repulsed by the skyrocketing hate 
crimes that have occurred across the country. Connecticut is no 
different. There have been a number of very concerning hate 
crimes against both Muslim Americans and Jewish Americans in 
Connecticut over the past few years. In fact, we've seen 158 
anti-Muslim hate crimes reported in 2022, up from 2021, and 
according to the Anti-Defamation League, there's been a huge 
increase in antisemitic incidents within Connecticut, 
specifically since 2020. At the University of Connecticut 
alone, this past year, 76 bias complaints were filed by both 
Jewish and Muslim students, detailing incidents of 
discrimination and hate speech since the conflict in Gaza began 
on October 7, 2023.
    The numbers reflect only a small part of the problem, 
because there has also been a failure or a lapse in reporting 
hate crimes. And I know that our witnesses have called 
attention to that problem. There is a real need for more robust 
data in reporting hate crimes, and the reality is that the 
government's--it's really failed to give us a full picture. 
With your invaluable help, Ms. Berry, we've begun to make 
progress on this problem since 2021, and the Jabara-Heyer NO 
HATE Act--I led that effort in the Senate with Senator Moran.
    Key provisions of that act provide for grant programs, as 
you know, to incentivize State and local law enforcement 
agencies to better adopt hate-crimes reporting measures that 
align with best practices. And yet, despite these efforts, we 
still see insufficient data related to hate crimes on campuses 
as well as in the community in general. So, my question to you, 
with my thanks for your cooperation and your help on these 
measures--what can we do to support law enforcement's effort on 
reporting and build on the work that we started with the NO 
HATE Act?
    Ms. Berry. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal, for the 
incredible work that you and your staff did on securing passage 
of the COVID-19 and Jabara-Heyer NO HATE Act.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you.
    Ms. Berry. As you said, it made a significant improvement. 
Three years later, we are seeing additional community-based 
grants being issued by the Department of Justice that are 
attempting to address the problem of underreporting. Grants 
that are going to law enforcement agencies--100,000 or more--
have you reported hate crimes? Have you not? It's the issue of 
addressing affirmative zero. It's hard to believe the number of 
municipalities and States in our country where they report that 
not a single hate crime has occurred.
    So, all of that, I think, has been tremendous progress, but 
you are correct in noting we're nowhere near where we need to 
be. And I think one of the most important things that we can 
do--and this is actually a change since we originally did the 
Jabara-Heyer NO HATE Act, to where we are now--is that there's 
an increase in supporting the measures of getting to mandatory 
reporting. How do we get to meaningful mandatory reporting? Can 
we tie it to funds that are already received by local law 
enforcement, so that we can make sure participation in this is 
possible?
    The second part of this is we've also had a transition in 
the way that we report hate crime. And I--I can't stress enough 
the importance of NIBRS, our new National Incident-Based 
Reporting System. It really does allow a local agency to go in, 
having reported a hate crime and perhaps missed it, to then 
upload it and be able to include it in that. So, the importance 
of that is tremendous. The issue there is, are we getting all 
of the agencies to participate? And, regrettably, we continue 
to see not enough agencies having fully transitioned to that.
    Senator Blumenthal. Do any of the other witnesses have any 
thoughts or perspectives on reporting?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. Thank you, Senator, for that question. 
Yes. I think one challenging aspect to reporting involves the 
lack of clear definitions. A recent study found, for example, 
that almost half of adult Americans don't know what the word 
antisemitism means, and those are the people willing to admit 
that in a survey. So, I think the importance of clear 
definitions would only help with reporting.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you.
    Mr. Stern. Yes. And, Senator----
    Senator Blumenthal. My----
    Mr. Stern. Oh, oh.
    Senator Blumenthal. Go ahead.
    Mr. Stern. Yes. I just think also it needs to--online and 
other ways to make it so that people understand not necessarily 
the road of definitions but the tools, the support, the--you 
know, Meta is one of the people working with us on this 
Eradicate Hate potential project, the clearinghouse idea, that 
people can find information from social media if they say, oh, 
I've been a victim of a hate crime, to get the resources. And I 
think the easier we make it for people to get the resources 
they need, the more reporting we'll see.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. My time has expired. This 
topic is hugely important and complex and challenging, and I 
want to thank all of you for being here. Again, my thanks to 
Ms. Berry in particular for your tremendous work on this issue. 
Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal. Senator Lee.
    Senator Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks to all of you 
for being here and for participating in this hearing. It's 
significant that, at least until today, no Senate hearing has 
been held regarding the unprecedented rise of antisemitism on 
college campuses throughout America, especially since the 
October 7 Hamas attacks on Israel. It's also significant--I'm 
very glad that we're holding this hearing, and it's significant 
that the major overwhelming focus of it is antisemitism, but 
it's odd that the title of the hearing doesn't even reflect 
that focus.
    And I think it's unfortunate that we're not having a 
hearing that is overtly, by name, focused on this specific 
topic, because we've got a problem here. We've got these once 
respected academic institutions of--you know, institutions of 
higher education that have suddenly found themselves 
transformed into these seething hotbeds--hotbeds of 
antisemitism. We see universities sitting sometimes idly by, or 
at least passively by, as Jewish students are threatened, are 
assaulted, are intimidated from attending class or just 
accessing facilities at the university, prevented from doing 
the very things that a college or university student is 
supposed to do while attending school.
    Even cases of students being stalked or assaulted simply 
for wearing symbols associated with their faith have been 
astoundingly common. And then, just yesterday, I read a report 
of a student just outside the University of Michigan who was 
approached by a group of men and asked whether the student was 
Jewish. And when the student responded in the affirmative, they 
beat him up, and he ended up having to go to the hospital. This 
is really significant, and it's becoming stunningly common.
    So, look, I understand the First Amendment protects the 
freedom of speech. It also protects the right of the people 
peaceably to assemble. It does not protect acts of violence. It 
does not protect people in their efforts to stop a Jewish 
student from attending class or approaching his or her 
dormitory or anything else on a university campus or elsewhere. 
That's not what the First Amendment is about.
    Now, one of the things that's so troubling is that there 
are tools that are ready and available, both within 
universities and from the standpoint of the Federal Government, 
to step in and stop this nonsense. And yet we've seen little 
intervention to protect students. The executive branch of the 
Federal Government has the authority to enforce Title VI of the 
Civil Rights Act to protect Jewish students and ensure that 
universities do the same, to make sure that they have 
consequences when they don't do it. And yet little action has 
been taken by the executive branch to make sure that this 
happens.
    One of the things that's so galling about this is that 
students and parents and those who are supporting these 
students are sending perfectly good money to these 
universities, specifically so that students can get an 
education, so that they can attend class, live in the 
dormitories, go to the bookstore, the library, anywhere else 
that they need to go. And yet these same universities can't 
even be bothered to use the vast resources at their disposal on 
their university, whether it's through their university police 
or otherwise, to make sure that students aren't inhibited in 
their ability to walk from one side of the campus to the other, 
to do something as simple as go to class or go back to their 
dorm or go to their library.
    Keep in mind, simply as a matter of contract law, before we 
even get to all of our civil rights protections that we have in 
law--protections that are not being enforced by this 
administration--before we even get to that, these people have a 
basic contractual right and a legitimate expectation that they 
will be able to access what they paid to be able to access. 
They didn't pay the university these ridiculously large sums of 
money simply so that they can wear a shirt with the logo of 
that university on their shirt. No. They paid for access to an 
education, an education that they're being denied, in many, 
countless cases, simply because they are Jewish.
    Look, this is unacceptable. And it is stunning to me that 
many of the universities that have been most brazenly unwilling 
to protect Jewish students are some of the same universities 
who are charging the most money. We can do better. These 
universities can do better. And if they don't, they're going to 
face some very unpleasant consequences, and we will make sure 
of that. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Lee. Senator Hirono.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for 
coming to testify. I would ask that our testifiers speak 
directly into the mic. I'm having a little trouble hearing you.
    As we sit here listening to your testimony and the 
questions being asked--perhaps this is for Mr. Stern and Ms. 
Berry--is the kind of hate that we're talking about today, 
whether it's anti-Jewish hate, sexual orientation hate crimes, 
anti-Hispanic, anti-Black, anti-Muslim, anti-Asian American, 
Native Hawaiian, Pacific Islander, anti-Haitians--is this kind 
of hate learned? Mr. Stern.
    Mr. Stern. Yes. Yes, and--but it also is not just that 
people are being polluted. Part of the challenge is that, as 
human beings, we're sort of ordained--our brains function to 
see who's us and who's them. And sometimes the dehumanization 
and demonization of that becomes, you know, problematic in 
terms of particular groups. It can lead to genocide. It could 
lead to the types of hate crimes we're seeing. So, you know, I 
think that the more that we focus on that this is a normal 
human reaction, whether it's on politics, too--the better able 
we're going to be able to handle situations like this.
    And to just, you know, piggyback on one thing that I agree 
and disagree with my friend there, the Rabbi--I don't think on 
the campus we're going to, you know, totally dispel this with 
discipline. There are certainly places where there--you need to 
have, you know, things--the police come in and so forth, but 
that should be at the last--the education should be the 
response to it. And one person I would suggest this Committee 
hear from at some point is Michael Roth--he's Jewish, at 
Wesleyan--who basically said, look, as long as you're not 
harassing, you're not intimidating, you know, you're going to 
be okay. You want a tent? Pitch a tent. And we're going to 
bring people in there to have conversations. To me, that's a 
much better approach in the long term.
    Senator Hirono. I agree with you. And to the extent that 
this kind of attitude--and, yes, there's a human nature aspect 
to it, that maybe we're never going to be able to eliminate all 
forms of racism and those kinds of attitudes, but it seems to 
me that education plays a role, and one must start young at 
making--at teaching against the kind of hatred that we see 
around us. And as we sit here listening to anti-Jewish hate--it 
was not very long ago that we were actually watching videos of 
AAPI communities being attacked and even murdered, which led to 
the COVID-19 hate crimes legislation, which was a bill that I 
sponsored, and Senator Blumenthal's NO HATE Act was included, 
which led to much better reporting, albeit it still--the lack 
of adequate reporting of all manner of hate crimes is 
recognized, and we can do better. And I'd like to--do you 
agree, Mr. Stern, that we can do better in terms of educating 
at a much younger age about the impact of hateful rhetoric and 
to do something more at an early age, to address the learning 
of hate?
    Mr. Stern. You know--yes, I think we could do lots of 
things at the early age. I think also--one of the things I put 
in my written testimony is the idea of bringing people, 
basically when they graduated from high school, from different 
backgrounds together and sending them out to do a project for 
somebody else. There's some social psychology that suggests 
that that may reduce bigotry. And on the campus itself, let me 
tell you, at Bard I had a colleague who saw people spitting out 
words in a very hostile manner about Zionism, genocide, ethnic 
cleansing, antisemitism--she said, you know, we're in a 
college. Why don't we teach about it? And she put together a 
course that helped students not only understand what these 
terms mean but why people hear them differently.
    Senator Hirono. So, are colleges creating such courses to 
enhance the dialog and discussion?
    Mr. Stern. That's the thing that distressed me most over 
the summer. I saw a lot of reporting on what the new policies 
are going to be. And I get it; administrations don't want to 
get things out of control. But I would've loved to have seen, 
what are the 20 new courses we're offering? What are the new 
hate studies programs that we're putting together? So, why--
when I do workshops with students and faculty and others, and 
they understand some of the brain science and social psychology 
about how we get into these, you know, heated us-versus-them 
buckets and you intellectually understand that, you're better 
able to then negotiate these issues.
    Senator Hirono. In the little bit of time that I have 
left--I agree with you, and I hope that college administrators 
and leaders are listening to you. And even as we speak, in 
Springfield, Ohio, the Haitian community there is being 
targeted, and the town has been targeted by hate-fueled attacks 
and bomb threats, et cetera. In your studies, have you seen 
minority communities being targeted like this, and can we 
expect that there will be further escalation of hatred against 
the Haitians in Springfield, Ohio and maybe will spread to 
other communities? Can you briefly respond?
    Mr. Stern. Yes. I am deeply concerned about anybody 
targeting a whole community, let alone with rumors, but you 
pick one----
    Senator Hirono. Lies.
    Mr. Stern. Yes, lies. Right. And, you know, what Mark was 
saying before, too--you go and you stigmatize one entire group 
because of somebody--you know, somebody that's perceived as 
part of that group, and bring hate. The problem, to me--and 
this I don't have a solution for--is that hate has always 
worked in politics. Otherwise, politicians wouldn't use it. And 
I think that the more that we stand up together and say we're 
going to call it out, especially when it's from people on our 
side, the less likely we'll be able to see this type of 
rhetoric expand.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you.
    Ms. Berry. If I may----
    Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm over my time.
    [Applause.]
    Chair Durbin. Senator Cruz.
    Senator Cruz. Antisemitism is a unique historic form of 
evil. And over millennia, it has manifested in violence, mass 
murder, and genocide. October 7 was one of the darkest days in 
human history, when terrorists murdered over 1,200 Israelis and 
took 251 hostages. Women and girls were raped. It was the 
single largest mass murder of Jews in a day since the 
Holocaust. In the wake of October 7, we have seen antisemitism 
explode across the United States and across the world, but 
especially on college campuses. As the ADL has illustrated, 
from 2022 to 2023, the number of antisemitic incidents more 
than doubled in the United States.
    But college campuses, in particular, have become vile 
incubators of hatred of Jews. At Cornell University, in the 
aftermath of October 7, one student made vile threats, 
including statements such as, if I see a pig male Jew, I will 
stab you and slit your throat. If I see another pig female Jew, 
I will drag you away and rape you and throw you off a cliff. A 
student organization at California State University, Long Beach 
circulated a flyer calling for a, quote, ``day of resistance in 
celebration of October 7.'' You will note, on the flyer is an 
image of a person parachuting with a fan attached, a direct 
reference to and a glorification of Hamas terrorists that used 
gliders to descend upon a music festival and murder 260 
innocent people and take many more hostages.
    At Columbia University, the situation got so bad that the 
Orthodox rabbi on campus, Rabbi Elie Buechler, had to make this 
public statement: ``Columbia University's Public Safety cannot 
guarantee Jewish students' safety in the face of extreme 
antisemitism and anarchy. It deeply pains me to say that I 
would strongly recommend you return home''--this was directed 
to Jewish students--``as soon as possible and remain home . . 
.'' The rabbi had every reason to be concerned. At Columbia's 
campus, individuals yelled, we love Hamas. We're all Hamas. 
Long live Hamas.
    At the University of Washington, the granddaughter of 
Holocaust survivors was told that--she was called names. She 
was spit at. She was laughed at. She said she no longer felt 
safe on campus, and she was told to go back to the gas 
chambers. This is sick and horrific.
    At Columbia, when Jewish students were engaged in 
displaying the American flag and the Israeli flag, another 
student wearing a mask--because these protesters are oh, so 
brave, they almost always cover their face--held up a 
handwritten sign saying, Al-Qassam's next target. Al-Qassam is 
the military arm of Hamas. According to social media, this 
particular student is a wealthy student from Georgia. She's not 
Palestinian. But she has been taught lies and hatred, and she 
feels perfectly comfortable advocating the murder of her fellow 
students at Columbia. At MIT, students have reported they feel 
unsafe to go to class, and the MIT president has said that she 
would not discipline the students making those threats, because 
if she did, they risk losing their visas and being deported.
    Throughout all of this, the Biden-Harris administration has 
been utterly absent. Does anyone doubt if the Klan were on 
college campuses, terrorizing African-American students, 
threatening African-American students, that we would see the 
FBI there; that we would see prosecutors there; that we would 
see Federal funding cutoff to universities? Of course, we 
would, and we should. But when it comes to antisemitism, the 
Democrats have a problem. I would note, this is occurring in 
blue States with blue Governors, because the Democrat party is 
terrified of the pro-Hamas wing of their party.
    In States like Texas and Florida, we don't allow this. At 
the University of Texas, when violent protesters threatened 
Jewish students, police officers arrived and arrested them. 
That's what happened when you enforced the law. Every 
Republican Member of this Committee asked the Chairman to hold 
a hearing on antisemitism in February, and yet we don't get a 
hearing on antisemitism. We get a hearing generically on hate--
--
    [Audience disruption.]
    Senator Cruz [continuing]. Because this administration--and 
this is the kind of anger and hate that is encouraged. You're 
now seeing the hate, manifesting right here. Interestingly 
enough, what----
    [Audience disruption.]
    Chair Durbin. Please. The Committee will come to order. The 
Senator is recognized to finish his remarks.
    [Audience disruption.]
    Senator Cruz. So, we now have a demonstration of 
antisemitism. We have a demonstration of the hate. Rabbi 
Goldfeder, let me ask you, has the Biden administration cutoff 
the funding of any of the colleges that have allowed this hate? 
Have they indicted anyone for funding these violent protested--
protests? Have they indicted the people paying for the matching 
tents? Or have they sat there silently, and have the 
universities sat there silently while their students are 
terrified to go to class?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. They have not indicted anyone.
    Senator Cruz. They have not indicted anyone. Has any 
university had their funding cutoff for allowing this sort of 
violent intimidation?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. Not a single university.
    Senator Cruz. I can tell you this. Next year, if there is 
a----
    Chair Durbin. Senator, your time is expired.
    Senator Cruz [continuing]. Republican majority on this 
Committee, you will see real leadership. And next year, if 
there's a Republican administration, you will see people 
prosecuted for this sort of violence. This is being tolerated 
with the looking away, the blind eye being turned from this 
administration and this Department of Justice. And it is 
utterly disgraceful. And under Title VI, any university that 
allows this should have their funding cutoff.
    Chair Durbin. The Senator's time is expired. I would make a 
note for the record. This hearing is about hate. It includes 
antisemitism, as well as hatred toward other people. I would 
also point out that the previous Chair of the Committee from 
the other side of the table didn't hold a single hearing on 
antisemitism or hate crimes. I've held multiple hearings 
addressing this subject since becoming Chair, including a 
hearing shortly after the January 15, 2022 synagogue hostage 
crisis in Colleyville, Texas, which featured testimony from the 
synagogue's rabbi. Senator Welch.
    Senator Welch. Thank you. Thank you for holding this 
hearing. The Senator from Texas, I was with you in your 
indictment of all those horrendous antisemitic things that 
happened. You lost me when it seemed like you veered into a 
blame game. I think every single one of us here is horrified 
about hatred and violence toward a person because of what they 
believe or who they are.
    Now, in Vermont, we're pretty proud of being a tolerant 
State, but we have suffered significantly with antisemitic 
activity. It's horrifying. One of the things that's really 
terrifying to me is that when folks want to go to their 
synagogue, they have to have police security. You know, when I 
grew up going to Holy Name grammar school, we didn't know what 
that was. We just went to church.
    And in Vermont, we had three young Palestinian men who were 
home, visiting a grandmother, for Thanksgiving. They were out 
walking. They were speaking Arabic. They had on a keffiyeh. 
They got shot. They got shot. I'm horrified at what has 
happened to them. I am horrified at the antisemitism escalation 
toward wonderful Vermonters who are Jews and what they have to 
endure and the insecurity that they feel.
    So, my view here is that let's acknowledge every single one 
of us is horrified about the expression of hatred toward the 
Jews, toward a Muslim, toward an Arab, and try to figure out 
how best we can act. And that does include enforcement, but I 
have observed that any issue out there that can become a 
partisan issue often does. My view--that's not a solution.
    You know, I speak to some Vermonters from the Jewish 
community, so horrified, as we all are, about what happened, 
what Hamas did on October 7. We have a teacher who had a 
student and was killed on October 7, and she posted about it 
and suffered enormous online harassment. But when we had these 
three college boys who were just home for Thanksgiving, and 
they got shot, I mean, all of us are absolutely horrified by 
that. And people who commit crimes, particularly hate crimes--
they should be punished, but that should be whether it's on 
campus, whether it's on the streets of Burlington, whether it's 
at a synagogue. We all have that obligation, because that 
hatred is so corrosive to all of us and to our society. And if 
we, as a society, can't accept the collective responsibility 
that we each have for the well-being of one another, then it's 
not going to work.
    So, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the hearing, and I want to 
thank the witnesses, because you're struggling with the day-by-
day. You're trying to help us find a way forward. But it's not 
going to be just a law that we pass. It's not just an 
indictment that we prosecute. And those things should be done, 
but it's going to be much more a collective responsibility that 
we have as citizens to one another. And let me just ask each of 
you what you think, what advice you have for us.
    Ms. Berry. Thank you so much for that, Senator, because I 
do think it's the collective responsibility piece, and it's 
something that Senator Hirono mentioned when she said, are 
people taught this? Part of it, we have to understand, is the 
process of dehumanization is central to people committing a 
hate crime. I may have a biased view, but moving me to the 
point of an actual crime, violence or the targeting of someone 
or their institution, is entirely different. And part of that 
requires that I don't see this person as human.
    Senator Welch. Right.
    Ms. Berry. So, when you talk about the cases of the 
students in Vermont or we talk about what's been happening on 
college campuses, part of what we have to understand is 
labeling them agents of Hamas is part of dehumanizing them. You 
can disagree or not agree with their speech. What I attempted 
to say with the Ranking Member was that he posited a 
complicated foreign policy question that I don't think belongs 
at a hate crime hearing. Hamas or Hezbollah or Iran--not only 
do they have views on Israel; they have views on the great 
State--which is the United States.
    We can have that conversation in a foreign policy context. 
I just don't think that's the reason that people are marching, 
Nazis are marching, saying, Jews will not replace us, and they 
blame the American Jewish community for the Great Replacement 
theory; therefore, they target the Tree of Life. It's not why 
Nazis are marching in Disneyland. We have a very real problem, 
and the center of it is understanding why people hate and what 
we can do to respond.
    So, the Office of Civil Rights has a budget to respond to 
the increase in college campus hate that we're seeing. 
Regrettably, that is not supported in a bipartisan way. So, if 
we intend to actually take this seriously, it's not a 
conversation about Israel and foreign policy; it's what are we 
doing to understand that we must improve this response? And 
that includes no longer dehumanizing Palestinians.
    Senator Welch. Thank you.
    [Applause.]
    Chair Durbin. Senator Welch, you may conclude.
    Senator Welch. I have concluded. I was going to offer an 
opportunity but at the will of the Chairman--I am out of time.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you very much. Senator Hawley.
    Senator Hawley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Berry, let me 
just start with you. You said in response to a question from, I 
think it was Senator Graham, you praise the protests going on 
on campuses--I just want to make sure I got this right, so you 
correct me now--as a National Organic Human Rights movement. 
What did you mean by that?
    Ms. Berry. The mass movement in support of Palestinian 
human rights is happening on college campuses across the 
country after students are learning more about the history of 
the Palestinian-Israeli conflict and the specific targeting of 
Palestinian human rights. Yes.
    Senator Hawley. Okay. I just want to be clear about what 
we're--what you're praising and not praising.
    Ms. Berry. Well, praising----
    Senator Hawley. Let's have a look here. So----
    Ms. Berry. Yes.
    Senator Hawley [continuing]. This--long live the intifada.
    Ms. Berry. Yes.
    Senator Hawley. Is this an example of the--what did you 
say--National Organic Human Rights movement, that you mean? 
This is a human rights movement?
    Ms. Berry. I'm not sure that using the term intifada, which 
literally just means to, like, shake off or get rid of, is 
effective, as most Americans don't actually associate it with a 
human rights issue, so I don't think that's effective. No, 
Senator.
    Senator Hawley. Wait a minute. You don't think it's 
effective, but you would agree that this is calling for the 
destruction of the State of Israel? This is after the----
    Ms. Berry. No, Senator.
    Senator Hawley. Oh, it's not?
    Ms. Berry. I----
    Senator Hawley. This isn't calling for the killing of Jews?
    Ms. Berry. I don't know that person, and I don't know that 
sign, so I don't----
    Senator Hawley. Oh, you don't----
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. Know what that's calling for.
    Senator Hawley [continuing]. Know what this means?
    Ms. Berry. I don't think----
    Senator Hawley. You haven't seen this before? Did you see 
these protests on--Rabbi, do you know what this means?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. Yes. It's a call for the destruction of 
the State of Israel and probably the killing of Jews 
everywhere.
    [Audience disruption.]
    Ms. Berry. I do not agree with that, Senator.
    Senator Hawley. You----
    Ms. Berry. I've----
    Senator Hawley. You don't think that this--you don't think 
that's hate speech, right here?
    Ms. Berry. Long live the intifada can mean different--as 
I--see, the problem----
    Senator Hawley. It can----
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. With this, Senator----
    Senator Hawley [continuing]. Mean different things? Wait a 
minute. These are----
    Ms. Berry. Yes.
    Senator Hawley [continuing]. Protests, violent protests on 
campuses that targeted Jewish students, attacked them 
personally, prevented them from going to camp--to class, put 
them in fear of their safety after the October 7 attacks on the 
State of Israel that murdered more Jews than at any time since 
the Holocaust, and you're saying you think that this is an 
ambiguous message?
    Ms. Berry. I'm saying that any student targeted on campus, 
Jewish student----
    Senator Hawley. Will you condemn this, right here? Right 
here. Long----
    Ms. Berry. I----
    Senator Hawley [continuing]. Live the intifada. Will----
    Ms. Berry. I'm condemning----
    Senator Hawley [continuing]. You condemn that?
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. Jewish students on targeted--on 
campuses being targeted, and the Office of Civil Rights should 
successfully be given funding in order to----
    Senator Hawley. Will you----
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. Support them.
    Senator Hawley [continuing]. Condemn this as hate speech?
    Ms. Berry. I think that can be hate speech, but I don't 
think it's automatically hate speech. The problem is that 
there's nuance, I'm trying to introduce to this conversation.
    Senator Hawley. What's the nuance, when these people are 
marching----
    Ms. Berry. Because long live----
    Senator Hawley [continuing]. And calling for----
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. The intifada----
    Senator Hawley [continuing]. Jews to be killed?
    Ms. Berry. Sir--sir, because intifada also means uprising, 
for Palestinians. The way to get rid of----
    Senator Hawley. Oh, so it's ambiguous, so it's hard to say. 
Well, my gosh. Okay. Let's try another one. What about this?
    [Audience disruption.]
    Chair Durbin. Please. Audience will please----
    Senator Hawley. Oh, yes, I--I mean, I--that's fine. We know 
what you think. Right, exactly. I mean, I think you've made it 
clear, those who were cheering earlier, when Senator Cruz was 
asking about the attempts to destroy and kill Jews. Let's just 
be clear about what's going on here, because here's what's 
happening at this hearing. We can't talk about antisemitism 
without also talking about something else. The message that's 
being sent today at this hearing today is, antisemitism isn't 
enough. The attempts to kill Jews on campuses--that's not a 
conversation worthy of discussion. You've got to add something 
else to it. So, if you want to kill Jews, oh, well, we can't 
talk about that unless we also talk about 15 other things, and 
now we have a witness sitting here----
    Ms. Berry. Yes.
    Senator Hawley [continuing]. Who will not condemn the 
attempts on these campuses that are blatantly antisemitic 
tropes, Nazi tropes, to try and kill Jews. What about this one? 
There's only one solution. Is that a National Organic Human 
Rights movement?
    Ms. Berry. No, sir. I trust that's in reference to the 
Holocaust, and that's----
    Senator Hawley. I would think----
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. Utterly reprehensible.
    Senator Hawley [continuing]. The final solution.
    Ms. Berry. Utterly reprehensible.
    Senator Hawley. Okay, what about this? What about this?
    Ms. Berry. But----
    Senator Hawley. Glory to our martyrs.
    Ms. Berry. Again, I don't understand the point of messaging 
like that. I don't know what that means. All my----
    Senator Hawley. Would you condemn this as antisemitic? This 
was projected here in Washington, DC, on the campus, in front 
of Jewish students, following the October 7 massacre.
    Ms. Berry. I think that that is not appropriate speech at a 
time----
    Senator Hawley. This is hate speech, in the context, don't 
you think?
    Ms. Berry. Sure, but I----
    Senator Hawley. Okay.
    Ms. Berry. The point is, I would prefer to focus on the 
issue of hate crime. That's the reason I'm saying that----
    Senator Hawley. This is a hate crime--when you threaten to 
kill Jews----
    Ms. Berry. That's a hate crime.
    Senator Hawley [continuing]. And destroy the State of 
Israel----
    Ms. Berry. No----
    Senator Hawley [continuing]. That's hate speech.
    Ms. Berry. No. Threatening to kill----
    Senator Hawley. That's a hate crime.
    Ms. Berry. Threatening to kill anyone, including Jews, is 
a--is----
    Senator Hawley. Yes, let's----
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. A hate crime that's prosecutable.
    Senator Hawley. And let's not pretend that it's ambivalent 
or ambiguous or we're not sure. How about this one? Free 
Palestine----
    Ms. Berry. I----
    Senator Hawley [continuing]. From the river to the sea.
    Ms. Berry. That's not hate speech, sir.
    Senator Hawley. You don't think that this is a call for the 
destruction of the State of Israel?
    Ms. Berry. Again, I can speak to what I think, which is 
amazing, because I'd love to talk about what I think, but I 
really think the focus of our hearing----
    Senator Hawley. You don't think that----
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. Should be the growing problem of 
hate crime.
    Senator Hawley [continuing]. After the October 7 attacks, 
when this was projected in front of a group of Jewish students 
right here in the District of Columbia--you don't think that's 
an attempt to intimidate them and call for the destruction of 
the State of Israel?
    Ms. Berry. Focusing on hate crime, I would say if that 
were----
    Senator Hawley. Just yes or no.
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. Displayed on a synagogue, then it's 
a hate crime. If it was displayed on a Hillel, then it's a hate 
crime. If it's displayed elsewhere, I trust it's----
    Senator Hawley. Wow.
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. Speech.
    Senator Hawley. Boy, and then we wonder why our students 
are confused. Rabbi, let me just ask you, are you confused 
about this message?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. I'm not confused, and I'll add that even 
if it was ambiguous and could mean different things to 
different people--Senator, can you imagine if there was a 
phrase that also meant kill all the Black people--would we be 
okay with projecting it because it might also mean something 
else to someone else?
    Senator Hawley. No. I mean, well said. Well said. I just 
have--I'm almost done, Mr. Chairman, but let me just ask, since 
the witness talked about a National Human Rights movement--let 
me just ask about a couple others. The University of North 
Carolina chapter of Students for Justice in Palestine claim, it 
is our moral obligation to be in solidarity with the 
dispossessed, no matter the pathway to liberation they choose 
to take. This includes violence. Would you condemn that?
    Ms. Berry. I'm sorry. Was that for me?
    Senator Hawley. Yes. It is our moral obligation to be in 
solidarity with the dispossessed, no matter the pathway to 
liberation they choose to take. This includes violence. Would 
you condemn that?
    Ms. Berry. I certainly condemn violence.
    Senator Hawley. Good. You condemn that statement?
    Ms. Berry. I condemn violence. I have no interest in 
engaging in this back-and-forth about individual statements of 
students. I'm saying----
    Senator Hawley. Oh, I--you know what? I do have an interest 
in it, and here's why. The----
    Chair Durbin. Senator, your time----
    Senator Hawley. What I just----
    Chair Durbin [continuing]. has expired.
    Senator Hawley [continuing]. Read to you--the U.S. Senate 
unanimously condemned this rhetoric. And unless we take a stand 
now on this rhetoric, now, on this specific rhetoric out of the 
mouths of these students that you have called National Organic 
Human Rights movement protesters, we are going to send the 
message that trying to kill Jews on campus, trying to prevent 
Jews from going to class on campus, is just okay. It's just 
another viewpoint.
    Chair Durbin. Senator, your----
    Senator Hawley. It's not just----
    Ms. Berry. It's never okay.
    Chair Durbin [continuing]. Time has expired.
    Senator Hawley [continuing]. Another viewpoint.
    Ms. Berry. Never okay.
    Senator Hawley. And, frankly, what you're trying to do here 
today----
    Chair Durbin. No, no, no. Your time----
    Senator Hawley [continuing]. I think is wrong.
    Chair Durbin [continuing]. Has expired.
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. Deeply wrong, sir.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Kennedy.
    Senator Kennedy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Rabbi, do you 
believe there are substantial number of people at Harvard 
University who believe in diversity, equity, inclusion, and the 
right to harass Jews?
    Mabbi Goldfeder. I do.
    Senator Kennedy. That's a yes?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. Yes.
    Senator Kennedy. And do you believe those people have acted 
on their self-anointed right to harass Jews?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. Yes.
    Senator Kennedy. And has the administration at Harvard 
University allowed that to happen?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. Yes.
    Senator Kennedy. Is that true at University of California 
at Berkeley?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. Yes.
    Senator Kennedy. How about UCLA?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. Yes.
    Senator Kennedy. How about NYU?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. Yes.
    Senator Kennedy. Lot of other universities, too. Isn't that 
the case?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. That is correct.
    Senator Kennedy. Now, Title VI says that if you receive 
Federal money, you can't harass Jews. Isn't that true?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. That is correct.
    Senator Kennedy. Has the Biden-Harris administration taken 
away the money of Harvard?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. No.
    Senator Kennedy. How about Berkeley?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. Nope.
    Senator Kennedy. How about UCLA?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. No, sir.
    Senator Kennedy. How about NYU?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. No.
    Senator Kennedy. They've just talked, haven't they?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. That is correct.
    Senator Kennedy. Okay. Do you think this condoned behavior 
at these universities, this--these condoned belief at these 
universities--and let me state it again. They believe in 
diversity, equity, inclusion, and the right to harass Jews. 
It's what they believe. What you do is what you believe. 
Everything else is just cottage cheese. Do you think that is 
consistent with their mission as universities?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. Absolutely not.
    Senator Kennedy. Okay. So, above and beyond the question of 
money, it is the morality, the purpose of higher education in 
America, is it not?
    Rabbi Goldfeder. That is correct.
    Senator Kennedy. Ms. Berry, you are the executive director 
of the Arab American Institute. Is that correct?
    Rabbi Berry. Correct, sir.
    Senator Kennedy. Okay. And according to your website, 
you're also, I'm going to quote here, ``a longtime Democratic 
party activist who served as a member of the 2016 Democratic 
National Convention's Platform Standing Committee,'' close 
quote. Is that correct?
    Rabbi Berry. That's correct.
    Senator Kennedy. Okay. You support Hamas, do you not?
    [Audience disruption.]
    Ms. Berry. Senator, oddly enough, I'm going to say thank 
you for that question, because it demonstrates the purpose of 
our hearing today in a very----
    Senator Kennedy. Let's start----
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. Effective way.
    Senator Kennedy [continuing]. First with a yes or no.
    Ms. Berry. Hamas is a foreign terrorist organization that I 
do not support. But you asking the executive director of the 
Arab American Institute that question very much puts the focus 
on the issue of hate----
    Senator Kennedy. Okay.
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. In our country.
    Senator Kennedy. Well, I----
    [Applause.]
    Senator Kennedy. I got your answer, and I appreciate it.
    [Applause.]
    Senator Kennedy. What is the--you support Hezbollah, too, 
don't you?
    [Audience disruption.]
    Ms. Berry. Again, I find this line of questioning 
extraordinarily disappointing, Senator.
    Senator Kennedy. Is that a no?
    Ms. Berry. That--you have----
    Senator Kennedy. Or a yes?
    Ms. Berry. You have Arab-American constituents that you 
represent----
    Senator Kennedy. But is that a----
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. In your great State.
    Senator Kennedy. Yes, ma'am, I understand that. But is--my 
time's limited, and I apologize, but is that a yes or a no?
    Ms. Berry. Yes-or-no question to--do I support Hezbollah? 
The answer is, I don't support violence, whether it's 
Hezbollah, Hamas, or any other entity that invokes it. So, no, 
sir.
    Senator Kennedy. You can't bring yourself to say no, can 
you?
    Ms. Berry. No, I can say no. I can yes. What I----
    Senator Kennedy. But you haven't.
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. Can say is----
    Senator Kennedy. You just can't----
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. Your line of questioning----
    Senator Kennedy [continuing]. Make yourself do it.
    [Audience disruption.]
    Senator Kennedy. Do you----
    Ms. Berry. Senator----
    Senator Kennedy [continuing]. Support or oppose Iran and 
their hatred of Jews?
    Ms. Berry. Again, I'm going to emphasize, Iran, Hezbollah, 
Hamas--none of them is going to----
    Senator Kennedy. You can't bring----
    Ms. Berry. This discussion----
    Senator Kennedy [continuing]. Yourself to say no, can you?
    Ms. Berry. Sir, I don't support----
    Senator Kennedy. It's real simple.
    Ms. Berry. Excuse me. I'm going to----
    Senator Kennedy. And----
    Ms. Berry. If I may----
    Senator Kennedy. No, no----
    Ms. Berry. As a Muslim----
    Senator Kennedy [continuing]. No.
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. Woman--as a Muslim woman, sir, I'm 
going to tell you, I do not----
    Senator Kennedy. I----
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. Support Iran. But what I will tell 
you is that----
    Senator Kennedy. You----
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. This conversation----
    Senator Kennedy. I'm running out of time. I'm sorry.
    Ms. Berry. Okay.
    Senator Kennedy. You----
    [Audience disruption.]
    Senator Kennedy. You called our decision----
    [Audience disruption.]
    Chair Durbin. Please.
    Senator Kennedy [continuing]. To cut funding----
    [Audience disruption.]
    Senator Kennedy. You called our decision to cut--well, 
first, what's the United Nations Relief and Works Agency?
    Ms. Berry. It's UNRWA, which is----
    Senator Kennedy. Yes.
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. The institution that exists to 
provide services and aid to the nearly six million Palestinian 
refugees.
    Senator Kennedy. And you called our decision to cut funding 
for them, quote, ``an incredible moral failure,'' close quote.
    Ms. Berry. That is absolutely correct. But again, I would 
suggest that conversation is about----
    Senator Kennedy. And we did----
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. Foreign policy.
    Senator Kennedy. We did that because nine UNRWA staff 
members were fired for actually helping Hamas on October 7.
    [Audience disruption.]
    Senator Kennedy. Isn't that the case?
    [Audience disruption.]
    Ms. Berry. I don't believe that that's correct, in terms 
of----
    Senator Kennedy. Let me----
    Chair Durbin. The audience will please----
    Senator Kennedy [continuing]. Ask you one more time. You 
support Hamas, don't you?
    [Audience disruption.]
    Ms. Berry. Sir----
    Senator Kennedy. You support UNWRA and Hamas, don't you?
    Ms. Berry. Sir----
    [Audience disruption.]
    Chair Durbin. Please.
    Ms. Berry. I think it's exceptionally disappointing that 
you're looking at an Arab-American witness before you and 
saying, you support Hamas.
    Senator Kennedy. You know what's disappointing to me?
    Ms. Berry. I do not support----
    Senator Kennedy. You can't----
    Ms. Berry [continuing]. Hamas.
    Senator Kennedy [continuing]. Bring yourself to say----
    Ms. Berry. I do not support Hamas or any----
    Senator Kennedy [continuing]. You don't support UNWRA, you 
don't support Hamas, you don't support----
    Ms. Berry. I was very clear on my support for UNWRA.
    Senator Kennedy [continuing]. Hezbollah, and you don't----
    Ms. Berry. I oppose----
    Senator Kennedy [continuing]. Support Iran. You should hide 
your head in a bag.
    [Audience disruption.]
    Chair Durbin. Your time is expired. Please----
    [Audience disruption.]
    Chair Durbin. Please, please. Ms. Berry, I'm going to allow 
you to respond to any one or all of those questions, at this 
point.
    Ms. Berry. Senator Durbin, thank you very much for holding 
this hearing and for elevating the issue of hate crime. It's 
regrettable that I, as I sit here, have experienced the very 
issue that we're attempting to deal with today.
    [Applause.]
    The introduction of foreign policy is not how we keep Arab 
Americans or Jewish Americans or Muslim Americans or Black 
people or Asian Americans--anybody--safe. This has been, 
regrettably, a real disappointment but very much an indication 
of the danger to our democratic institutions that we're in now. 
And I deeply regret that, and I do hope that my testimony today 
has been helpful to understanding the need to respond to hate.
    [Applause.]
    Chair Durbin. Over the weekend, I went to a synagogue in my 
hometown of Springfield. There was a bar mitzvah for a dear 
friend of mine. I couldn't help but notice the security guards 
that were posted for this bar mitzvah. In addition, I went to 
the meeting where a dear friend of mine, a Jewish friend of 
mine in Chicago--she's been my friend and worked for me for 40 
years--was almost in tears over the antisemitism that she has 
witnessed. She was wearing a Star of David around her neck, and 
she said, I do that because I won't give up. I won't give up.
    I thought about it for this hearing, but I also thought 
about Wadea, a 6-year-old boy. I have a 5-year-old 
granddaughter. I love her like life itself. I cannot imagine 
this poor little boy answering the door and losing his life 
because he's Palestinian. My God, we can't say this, things 
that I've just said in the same sentence, without some people 
saying, oh, you've just chosen sides. I'm not choosing sides 
here except for the side of, I hope, common decency and 
democracy. We've got to have this conversation, and we've got 
to do it in a civilized manner. I regret some of the things 
that were said today at this hearing, but we are a free Nation, 
and that's what happens in a democracy. As sad and as 
disquieting as it may be, that is part of it.
    The title of today's hearing was inspired by Dr. King's--
oh, I'm sorry. I didn't see Senator Blackburn. I was just 
concluding. Senator, you're recognized.
    Senator Blackburn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I had a feeling 
you were trying to conclude and didn't realize that I was here. 
But thank you very much.
    Rabbi, I want to come to you, if I may. You cited a Gallup 
poll that found that 60 percent of American Jews are afraid to 
share their religious affiliation. And thank you for getting 
that testimony in early. And that was just astounding to me. 
And having friends that have felt so impacted after October 7--
and, Mr. Chairman, I wish we had had this hearing earlier. This 
is the first Senate hearing that we have had dealing with 
antisemitism----
    Chair Durbin. No, it is not.
    Senator Blackburn [continuing]. Since the----
    Chair Durbin. No, it is not.
    Senator Blackburn [continuing]. October 7----
    Chair Durbin. Senator----
    Senator Blackburn [continuing]. Attack.
    Chair Durbin. Senator, I'm going to clarify the record once 
and for all. I gave the date of the hearing that I had on----
    Senator Blackburn. Okay.
    Chair Durbin [continuing]. Antisemitism. You should've been 
there.
    Senator Blackburn. I'm sure I was.
    Chair Durbin. Then you should----
    Senator Blackburn. I make them all.
    Chair Durbin [continuing]. Remember.
    Senator Blackburn. I make them all. But, Rabbi, I want to 
come to you. I want you to speak for just a moment about how 
the protests that have carried out on the college campuses and 
what we've been witnessing--how that not only is affecting the 
students but how it is also affecting the Jewish people in 
your--in your synagogue, in your community. If you'll just 
drill down on that for a moment, for me.
    Rabbi Goldfeder. Sure. Thank you, Senator, for that 
question. The statistics are clear that on-campus incidents 
lead to county-wide incidents and hate crimes. When you attack 
a community because of who they are, it sends a message to that 
entire community. In 2023, our synagogues became fortresses. In 
2024, our children still go to school under armed guard, 
because what starts at the universities spills out into the 
streets, and when it's left unchecked, unfortunately a lot of 
these bad actors see kindness as weakness and as a message that 
they can do even worse and go even harder.
    Senator Blackburn. You know, when you talk about the 
schools, there are a couple in Tennessee, Vanderbilt and 
University of Tennessee, that have really retained a policy of 
institutional neutrality. And I know people have appreciated 
that. So, talk a little bit about why it is important for 
university leadership to support every student, instead of 
catering to pro-Hamas activists.
    Rabbi Goldfeder. Well, first of all, I think it's important 
to clarify the record. We're not calling them pro-Hamas 
activists. They're calling themselves pro-Hamas activists.
    Senator Blackburn. That's right.
    Rabbi Goldfeder. And they're handing out Hamas recruitment 
materials. I brought some that I've already introduced for the 
record. Happy to share more later. So, when people tell you 
that they are working for Hamas, you should believe them.
    Senator Blackburn. Right. Thank you for that. Ms. Berry, I 
do want to go back to the issue of UNWRA. And I know that you 
made a comment--pardon me--regarding Congress's decision to 
prohibit funding for UNWRA, and I supported--pardon me--us 
eliminating that funding for UNWRA, and I think Congress was 
right to do that, because we were fully aware that some of 
those UNWRA funds were ending up in the hands of terrorists and 
UNWRA teachers and educational materials that had called for 
the murder of the Jews. And yet you called that decision to 
defund UNWRA and I will use your quote, ``an incredible moral 
failure.'' And do you really believe that cutting off taxpayer 
funds from UNWRA, when we knew that that money was--much of it 
was ending up in the hands of terrorists--do you still believe 
that's a moral failure?
    Ms. Berry. Yes, Senator, unequivocally. And I apologize in 
that, again, it's another foreign policy question, but I'll 
take the opportunity to explain our position. The United 
States, as well as the world, has obligations to the 
Palestinian people after the creation of the State of Israel in 
1948. UNWRA is part of that effort, and we support UNWRA 
through our funding because it supports refugees in multiple 
camps, as well as different services.
    The part about the particular moral failure is that we 
cutoff aid in the middle of Palestinians actually starving 
within Gaza, so you had a situation where the heightened need 
existed, and yet we made a move to cut the funding. And, 
additionally, all the other governments that did that have 
restored their funding, because it's been demonstrated that 
those charges, regrettably--well, apologies, not regret; those 
charges were false. So, yes, we need to be funding UNWRA.
    [Applause.]
    Senator Blackburn. Well, I will tell you that I think the 
real moral failure is that Jewish students are not safe to walk 
to and from class here in the United States. I think that that 
is a travesty. I think anything that we can do to protect them, 
we should be doing. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator. As I was saying, the 
title of today's hearing was inspired by Dr. King's famous 
letter from the Birmingham jail. Dr. King famously wrote, 
injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are 
caught in an inescapable network of mutuality tied in a single 
garment of destiny. The notion of separating out statements 
that are made about Palestinians, Arabs, Jews, immigrants, 
Haitians--doesn't succeed in dealing with the problem directly.
    [Audience disruption.]
    When we lose our sense of shared humanity, it becomes--
please. When we lose our sense of shared humanity, it becomes 
easier to dehumanize our fellow Americans and others and commit 
horrible acts of violence. I agree with Mr. Stern that hate, at 
its core, is about dividing us into groups of us and them. We 
have to resist that ideology of hate. I hope this hearing has 
highlighted that to all Americans. Yes, it was boisterous; yes, 
it was emotional. Yes, it was democracy. The hearing record 
will remain open for the week, for the submission of materials 
for the record.
    Chair Durbin. With that, the hearing stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:16 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
    [Additional material submitted for the record follows.]


                            A P P E N D I X

Submitted by Chair Durbin:

 Arab American Bar Association of Illinois........................   135

 Asian Americans Advancing Justice (AAJC).........................   139

 Assi, Lina, Written Statement....................................   121

 American Middle East Voters Alliance, Inc. (AMVOTE-PAC*).........   145

 Anti-Defamation League (ADL).....................................   240

 Anti-Palestinian Racism Survey Preliminary Report 2024...........   146

 B'nai B'rith International.......................................   160

 Bedrock Safety and Belonging For All.............................   155

 Bend the Arc, Jewish Action......................................   158

 Bennett, James L., Testimony.....................................   363

 Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR).....................   162

 Deol, Raghuvinder Singh, Letter..................................   294

 EMGAGE Action....................................................   348

 Fatal, The Resurgence of Anti-Muslim Hate........................   308

 Garcia, Sonny, Letter............................................   338

 GLAAD, Statement.................................................   231

 Glckman, Audrey N., testimony....................................   360

 Hassan, Khalid, Statement........................................   253

 Hindu American Foundation (HAF)..................................   233

 Hindus for Human Rights (HfHR)...................................   329

 Institute for Social Policy and Understanding (ISPU).............   318

 Institute for the Understanding of Anti-Palestinian Racism.......   251

 Interfaith America...............................................   247

 Khalid Jabara Foundation (KJF)...................................   254

 Laird, Lucille, female Muslima...................................   266

 Levin, Emeritus Brian, Statement.................................   172

 Life After Hate..................................................   258

 Masters, Michael, Statement......................................   339

 Muhammad, Abdul Akbar, Letter....................................   137

 Muslim Advocates.................................................   356

 Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC).............................   279

 Muslims for Just Futures (MJF)...................................   268

 NAPABA...........................................................   334

 National Council of Jewish Women (NCJW)..........................   282

 National Urban League............................................   132

 Parker, Channyn Lynne, Testimonial...............................   170

 Polarization & Extremism Research & Innovation Lab (PERIL).......   287

 Rahman, Amina, Testimony.........................................   144

 Saba, Katrina, Letter............................................   252

 Saini, Harpreet Singh, Letter....................................   238

 Shoulder to Soulder..............................................   124

 Sikh American Legal Defense and Education Fund (SALDEF)..........   126

 SIKH Coalition...................................................   342

 Singh, Lakhwant, Letter..........................................   264

 Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC)...............................   213

 Stand Against All Hate, Honoring Wadee Alfayoumi.................   300

 Tazamal, Mobashra, Fannine the Flames............................   304

 Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America................   296

 Zayed, Watfae....................................................   365

Submitted by Ranking Member Graham:

 Civil Rights of Jewish Students..................................   370

 Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America................   366

Submitted by Senator Grassley:

 Codifying Antisemitism, Abstract, Mark Goldfeder.................   508

 Codifying Antisemitism, Mark Goldfeder...........................   379

 Defining Antisemeitism, Mark Goldfeder...........................   429

 Russia is trying to exploit America's divisions over the war in 
    Gaza, NBC News................................................   375

 The Hill.........................................................   373

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