[Senate Hearing 118-610]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 118-610
OVERSIGHT OF THE
FEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONS
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
SEPTEMBER 13, 2023
__________
Serial No. J-118-31
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Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
www.judiciary.senate.gov
www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
59-995 WASHINGTON : 2025
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COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois, Chair
DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina,
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island Ranking Member
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware JOHN CORNYN, Texas
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut MICHAEL S. LEE, Utah
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii TED CRUZ, Texas
CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
ALEX PADILLA, California TOM COTTON, Arkansas
JON OSSOFF, Georgia JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
PETER WELCH, Vermont THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee
Joseph Zogby, Chief Counsel and Staff Director
Katherine Nikas, Republican Chief Counsel and Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Durbin, Hon. Richard J........................................... 1
Graham, Hon. Lindsey O........................................... 3
WITNESS
Peters, Colette S................................................ 4
Prepared statement........................................... 34
Responses to written questions............................... 45
APPENDIX
Item submitted for the record.................................... 33
OVERSIGHT OF THE
FEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONS
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WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 13, 2023
United States Senate,
Committee on the Judiciary,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:05 a.m., in
Room 216, Hart Senate Office Building, Hon. Richard J. Durbin,
Chair of the Committee, presiding.
Present: Senators Durbin [presiding], Whitehouse,
Klobuchar, Hirono, Booker, Ossoff, Welch, Graham, Grassley,
Lee, Cruz, Hawley, Cotton, Tillis, and Blackburn.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD J. DURBIN,
A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS
Chair Durbin. This hearing of the Senate Judiciary
Committee will come to order. Today, the Committee has the
annual hearing on ``Oversight of the Federal Bureau of
Prisons.''
Director Peters, you've now led the Bureau for a little
over a year, and we've seen some significant changes.
In February, you dissolved the Special Management Unit,
known as the SMU, at the United States Penitentiary, Thomson,
located in my home State of Illinois.
When you abolished the SMU, you recognized that the program
failed to meet the high standards that we should expect in our
Federal prisons. I applaud your decisive action. But let it be
clear, closing that unit should only be the beginning.
I was stunned to hear about the shackling of people in
custody in ways that left permanent scars on their bodies. It
became known within Thomson Penitentiary as the Thomson tattoo.
A former warden has reported that over 90 inmates were
documented with these Thomson tattoos--scars from excessively
tight and punitive use of restraints. And the Director, I
understand, personally observed some of this in your visit to
Thomson.
The former warden also advised us that Thomson was one of
the most violent and abusive cultures he had seen at a prison
in 30 years that he worked for the Bureau of Prisons.
This is stunning and it's sickening, and I take it
personally. I worked hard to open that prison. It sat idle for
10 years when the State built it and couldn't afford to open
it. We've made it part of the Federal system, and I wanted it
to certainly be a showcase in terms of creative and thoughtful
detention. Unfortunately, it has become notorious for other
things.
Recurring accounts of rampant racist, verbal abuse, and
extreme isolation at the facility are equally alarming.
Unfortunately, my staff continues to receive reports about
misconduct that are, to put it mildly, unacceptable.
Accountability at Thomson and across the Bureau is
absolutely necessary and overdue. You have stated, and I quote,
``Our job is not to make good inmates, it's to make good
neighbors.''
I know, and you do as well, that separation for safety is
unavoidable in extreme cases. But we both know that locking
someone in a cell for more than 22 hours per day will not make
them a good neighbor.
And yet, since our oversight hearing last September, we
have seen no decrease in the number of people in solitary
confinement in Federal prisons.
In fact, the percentage of people in Bureau of Prisons
restricted housing is higher than when I held my first hearing
on solitary confinement more than 10 years ago.
I understand you have partnered with the National Institute
of Justice to review and provide recommendations regarding your
practice of using restrictive housing. I would recommend to
you, and to anyone interested, a 2009 article in the New Yorker
entitled, ``Hellhole,'' by Dr. Atul Gawande.
Dr. Gawande is now a part of this administration in the
Department of State, but at the time, he wrote about the impact
of solitary confinement and restrictive housing on the inmate's
mind.
We both know that the majority of women and men in
incarceration today will be released at some point in the
future.
If damage is done to them mentally or physically, they will
carry those scars forward back into society, and the likelihood
of their success and avoiding recidivism is diminished many
times by the treatment that is accorded to these inmates while
they're in the prison.
I've said, and I don't know if my colleagues all joined me
in thinking along these same lines, but I believe every Member
of Congress every 2 years should be required to take a trip to
a foreign country and required to visit a Federal prison.
We talk casually about criminal sentencing here and what it
means to America. We ought to see it firsthand and have the
courage to face it--where it succeeds and where it fails.
I'm hoping that we remember statements that were made by
our friend and colleague, Senator John McCain, who endured
unspeakable torture and isolation as a prisoner of war. Two-
and-a-half years in a 15-foot-by-15-foot cell. What he said,
and I quote, ``It crushes your spirit.''
The same thing is happening today in our Bureau of Prisons
system with restrictive housing.
As I said, I know that in some cases it's unavoidable for
public safety. It has to happen. But we've got to take a hard
look at this. I hope that you will consider this one of your
priorities, and hope that you'll work with us to leave a legacy
that is much different than what we've seen over the last 10
years and before.
We shouldn't delay implementation of the Department of
Justice 2016 report and recommendations on restrictive housing.
This issue has been studied long enough. It's time for action.
Making good neighbors also requires full implementation of
the bipartisan First Step Act. Senator Grassley visited here
this morning to tell me he had a conflicting Budget hearing and
couldn't be at this hearing. I'm sorry he can't. He and I both
worked on the First Step Act, which was signed into law by
President Trump.
That has resulted in dramatically lower recidivism rates
for those who have been participants among the general BOP
population. Let's try something that works. The First Step Act
works. Programming to prepare people to successfully return to
their communities is critical to First Step Act's goal of
rehabilitation.
Unfortunately, there are significant wait lists for
programming and over-reliance on staff augmentation that have
made it more difficult for incarcerated people to access
programming if they're going to be incarcerated.
And we know that giving them something positive to do and
to improve themselves has a measurable impact on the positive
side. We have got to invest more. I need your thoughts on how
we do that.
My staff will be visiting BOP facilities this fall to see
it in action. It is my hope that we have your full cooperation
in these visits.
The Bureau's 140,000 employees have a great responsibility
of safely caring for adults in custody, but they cannot perform
their jobs if they're overworked and undertrained.
More than 2 years ago, Bureau of Prisons awarded a contract
to an independent consultant to assist the Bureau in making
informed staffing decisions. I want to hear about the results
of that review and your plans to address chronic understaffing.
With your leadership, the Bureau of Prisons is moving
toward a new course. You have shown you're adaptable to change
and confronted some of the BOP's most pervasive and persistent
issues. You've recognized there's much more to be done.
Our Federal Prison system must fulfill its fundamental
purpose: Provide safe and humane conditions of confinement, and
ensure the successful return of incarcerated individuals to
their community.
I now turn to Ranking Member Graham for his opening
remarks.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LINDSEY O. GRAHAM,
A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA
Senator Graham. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I'm--I'm
sympathetic to the idea that the prison population needs to be
treated humanely, consistent with our laws and our values, and
try to come out of prison ready to integrate in society. Those
are all worthy things to be talking about.
But preparing for this hearing, I am just astonished in how
the Mexican drug cartels are integrated into our State and
Federal prisons. That the El Paso FBI field director said that
cartels are actually recruiting people in prison to help their
networks.
In South Carolina, January of this year, you had 43 people
prosecuted in a State prison that were linked to Mexican drug
cartels, and this seems to be a very significant problem,
particularly with the issue of fentanyl. We had a prisoner
become positive for fentanyl in a Federal prison. Staff members
were exposed to it and needed treatment.
So, I'm hoping Mr. Chairman, that we can--this won't be the
last time we talk about how the prisons are being used by
Mexican drug cartels to advance their cause.
And another topic that will be discussed today, but I hope
we'll follow on through with, is the assignment of transgender
prisoners. Biological males wishing to transition and being
assigned to female prisons. I have a real concern with that
policy change by the Biden administration and I'll look forward
to talking about that.
But maybe this Committee can come up with a solution in a
bipartisan way, what can we do to combat drug cartels'
influence in Federal prisons?
Chair Durbin. I will join you in that inquiry. I think it's
very timely.
Let me lay out the mechanics. After I swear in Director
Peters, she'll have 5 minutes to make an opening statement. We
each have 5 minutes in rounds for each Senator. Director
Peters, would you please stand to be sworn in?
[Witness is sworn in.]
Chair Durbin. Let the record indicate that she answered in
the affirmative, and I give you the floor. It's all yours.
STATEMENT OF COLETTE S. PETERS, DIRECTOR,
FEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONS, WASHINGTON, DC
Director Peters. Good morning, Chairman Durbin, Ranking
Member Graham, and Members of the Committee. I am honored to
appear before you today to discuss the really impactful work
happening at the Federal Bureau of Prisons.
In the past year, I have visited more than 20 of our
correctional facilities, and those are my best days. It's a
privilege to meet our dedicated corrections professionals while
walking the halls of our institutions, many of whom have filled
the room here today. They are my inspiration, and I am very
grateful for their dedication.
With their important work in mind, in the last year, we
engaged in strategic planning. We modernized our mission,
vision, and core values. And we are now guided by the
principles of normalcy and humanity and core values that
emphasize accountability, integrity, respect, and compassion.
We engaged in proactive outreach to Members of Congress,
members of the media, advocacy organizations, and justice-
involved individuals, while maintaining a collaborative strong
relationship with our national union. This strategic vision,
along with clear expectations, has put us on a course for
success.
As you know, the vast majority of our employees are
hardworking, ethical corrections professionals who expect those
who are engaging in misconduct to be held accountable.
We dedicated additional resources to our Office of Internal
Affairs.
We've collaborated with our law enforcement partners to
investigate criminal misconduct, and hold individuals
accountable up to and including termination and prosecution. I
have communicated clear expectations that misconduct and
reprisal will not be tolerated.
As you mentioned, Mr. Chair, in our Special Management Unit
at our Thomson, Illinois, facility, we uncovered abuse and
misconduct and swiftly shut the unit down. We are holding
people accountable, rebuilding the culture, and changed the
mission to a low security institution. Yet, as you mentioned,
we need to do more as it relates to restrictive housing.
Despite our efforts to address restrictive housing numbers,
we have seen them increase. We know restrictive housing, as you
said, is not an effective deterrent and can increase an
individual's future criminality.
So, we created a short-term plan and a long-term plan.
First, we formed a work group consistent of members of our
executive team to review best practices from correctional
systems across the country and around the globe.
Long-term, as you mentioned, we entered into a historic
partnership with the National Institute of Justice to bring an
external organization in to provide further recommendations.
As you well know, the work of corrections professionals is
complex and challenging, often resulting in negative health
outcomes for our employees.
So we are improving employee wellness, including better
access to resources, increased training, and solving our
retention and recruitment issues.
Compared to last year, we have a 60 percent increase in new
hires and a 20 percent reduction in separations. Yet we are
still not where we need to be, and until we solve this problem
in whole, we must continue relying on augmentation and
overtime.
Healthy facility structures are critical to our operations,
yet we have a $2 billion maintenance backlog, which only
accounts for the most serious repairs. So, we are contracting
with an external organization to assess the overall problem.
Then inside these structures, we are the de facto mental
health hospital, the largest provider of alcohol and drug
treatment, and we have nearly 160,000 patients, many of whom
come to us with complex medical issues and chronic disease.
So, with these complexities, we must ensure that we are
operating holistically as a healthcare organization. So, we are
seeking an external entity to come in and provide
recommendations on correctional health best practices, and
implementing the principles of normalcy and humanity.
Mr. Chair, we remain committed to First Step Act
implementation. More than 104,000 individuals have participated
in FSA programs and activities, and more than 23,000
individuals have been released.
As I have said many times, I believe in accountability,
oversight, and transparency, and I know we cannot do this work
alone.
Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member Graham, and Members of the
Committee, I am honored to speak with you today on behalf of
our dedicated employees across the country. This concludes my
opening statement, and I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Director Peters appears as a
submission for the record.]
Chair Durbin. Thank you very much, Director.
And so, the First Step Act was a brainchild of Jared
Kushner and Members of this Committee. We came together and put
together a bipartisan effort.
Among the Sponsors, over time, are myself, Senator
Whitehouse, Senator Grassley, and others. The notion was that
the prison experience should be more than punishment and
separation. It should be perhaps a new look at life, a life-
changing experience in a positive way.
And our measurement for that is quite simple: recidivism.
How many people leave our prison system and commit another
crime, another victim along the way. And that's very basic. And
I think the record, as I've read, and I hope it's the same that
you said, is pretty interesting.
We know that generally recidivism rate of the Bureau of
Prisons population stands at 43 percent--43 percent commit
another crime after release from prison in the Bureau of Prison
system.
However, if they've been through this program in the First
Step Act, only 12.4 percent recidivate and 87.6 percent don't.
That's dramatic. It means time well spent, resources well
invested, not to have a recidivism situation like this. So tell
me where we are in terms of providing the resources for more
participation and whether or not we need to do more.
Director Peters. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think we always
need to do more. As of the beginning of this month, we were
offering over 110 structured activities. About half of those
were evidence-based recidivism reduction programs, and the
other half were those productive activities.
And you're right, the data is very clear. I think that we
are at a great moment in time as we pivot out of the pandemic,
and we have institutions that are now thinking very creatively
about the programs that they can expand now that we don't have
institutions under lockdown.
Furthermore, as we continue to tackle this recruitment and
retention issue, you're going to see even more progress,
because we'll have fewer people engaged in overtime and
augmentation, freeing up individuals to engage in those
programs and those activities.
Chair Durbin. So, let me talk about Thomson for a minute,
and I mentioned it in the opening statement.
How did Thomson reach that point--such a low point that you
had to virtually close the mission of that institution? And
what happened to the people who were in that institution? Are
they gathering in another place? Were they sent to another
place? How do you know we're not going to have the same problem
wherever they're sent?
Director Peters. Thank you, Senator. I don't know how an
institution gets to that low, low point. As you said, the
warden reported he hadn't seen anything like that in his
career. I, too, hadn't seen anything like that in my 30-plus-
year career in corrections and law enforcement.
And so those individuals who have engaged in that behavior
have been referred for an investigation. Some have left the
organization. Some are pending criminal investigation. Others
pending administrative investigation.
For those that were moved out of the institution, we are
paying attention to them and their behavior. We also have
really increased training at that institution. When we were
able to shut that institution down, we really went back to
basics, went back to corrections basics, and rebooted our
training program there, so that we could change that culture.
Culture change takes time.
I think changing that institution's mission to a low
security mission will help in rebuilding that culture and
making that change. And we will be keeping a very close eye on
that facility.
Chair Durbin. How much do you attribute this to
understaffing and augmentation?
Director Peters. Senator, I think that accountability is
the most important thing. I don't believe that a lack of
staffing and augmentation leads people to treat other human
beings that poorly.
And so, for me, it was violations of policies, practices,
violations of best correctional practices. And so, I wouldn't
want overtime or augmentation to minimize the egregious choices
that these employees made in taking care--or rather, not taking
care of those in our care and custody.
Chair Durbin. I'm glad you took this job. It is historic
that you're in this capacity.
Certainly a first year, I felt, I don't know if others
shared it--I think they might have--that you were entitled to
the preliminary opportunity to assess the Bureau of Prisons and
to talk about change and maybe even initiate some change in
that first year. We expect much more in the second year. What
can you tell us?
Director Peters. So, I think we have great plans for the
second year.
So, the first year we really did an assessment, developed
our executive team, engaged in the strategic planning, as I
talked about in my opening comments, which I think is really
going to set us on course for some initiatives that are going
to improve employee wellness, really focus on restrictive
housing, and implementing these principles of normalcy and
humanity throughout the institutions.
We've opened our doors to Members of Congress and others to
come in and see what we are doing. We're collaborating very
closely with the Office of the Inspector General and the GAO so
that our doors are wide open to them in terms of oversight and
accountability.
So, I think in this next year, you will see the
advancements of our strategic planning, the change in our
mission, and a true focus on our new core values.
Chair Durbin. Thank you. Senator Graham.
Senator Graham. Thank you very much. Ms. Peters, I
appreciate your efforts on behalf of our country.
During preparation for this, my staff informed me that in
2022, a Federal prison facility in New Hampshire, Mexican
cartel inmates used contraband cell phones to help coordinate
large scale fentanyl deals in Connecticut. Is that accurate?
Director Peters. Senator, I'm not familiar with the
individual case that you're speaking to, but I can say that
contraband is something that we fight----
Senator Graham. Would you----
Director Peters [continuing]. Day in and day out.
Senator Graham. If I send it to you, would you look at it
and get back with me?
Director Peters. I'd be happy to, Senator.
Senator Graham. How would you evaluate the effect of
Mexican cartels or the relationship they have with inmates in
our Federal prisons? Is that a problem?
Director Peters. Our national gang unit and our
intelligence officers across the country are combating gangs
throughout the Federal Bureau of Prisons as it relates to
contraband, drugs, cell phones, drones. Those are--are very
difficult----
Senator Graham. But--my concern is apparently, according to
things that we found, the cartels are actually running
operations out of prisons using prisoners to coordinate drug
deals. And is that a concern? Is that real or is that just----
Director Peters. That's absolutely a concern. And that's
what our employees at the Federal Bureau of Prisons work to
combat every day through our national gang unit----
Senator Graham. So what's the biggest policy change----
Director Peters [continuing]. Our intel officers----
Senator Graham [continuing]. You've instituted to combat
this problem?
Director Peters. You know, we work every single day to----
Senator Graham. No, no, no, no----
Director Peters [continuing]. Leverage new technology,
like----
Senator Graham [continuing]. No, no, no, no, no. You say
it's a problem. I agree with you. What's the plan to combat the
problem? Do you have a plan called--entitled Mexican Cartel
Influencing Prisons?
Director Peters. No, Senator. I don't have a plan entitled
that.
Senator Graham. Could you come up with one?
Director Peters. What I can tell you is our national gang
unit and our intelligence officers across the country have a
plan----
Senator Graham. Well----
Director Peters [continuing]. They combat this every single
day.
Senator Graham [continuing]. I mean, if you don't have a
plan, you're in charge of the prisons. So, I just suggest that
we come up with one. And if you could, in the coming weeks and
months, tell me what the plan is, if there's a plan at all.
Could you do that?
Director Peters. Senator, and I'm happy to talk about it
more, here today if you'd like, as well.
Senator Graham. Yes, but I, you know, I want to--we can't
talk about a plan that doesn't exist. So, let's like, do one,
then we'll talk about it. Because I think we need a plan--to
the American people, we need a plan to make sure that prisons
are not used by Mexican drug cartels to poison America.
On the transgender issue, in 2018 during the Trump years,
an inmate was assigned to a prison, male or female based on
their biological sex at birth. Is that policy still in place?
Director Peters. We have a policy at the Depart--at the
Federal Bureau of Prisons to rely on a community standard of
healthcare and make individualized decisions----
Senator Graham. So, that policy has changed?
Director Peters. So, we have--we treat individuals----
Senator Graham. Well, here's my question----
Director Peters [continuing]. Who present as transgender--
--
Senator Graham. Well here's my question. In 2018, during
the Trump years, the policy was to assign an inmate based on
their biological sex at birth. Has that policy changed? Do you
no longer do it that way?
Director Peters. That's correct, Senator. We rely on a
community standard of care to make individualized medical
decisions based on what is appropriate for that individual on a
case-by-case basis.
Senator Graham. So how many biological males who have
desired to transition are now in female prisons?
Director Peters. I don't have that number top of mind,
Senator, but we could get that for you.
Senator Graham. Is it a growing request?
Director Peters. It's a limited number of individuals.
Senator Graham. Is it over a thousand? Under a thousand?
Director Peters. Far under a thousand, Senator.
Senator Graham. Okay. I mean, how far under? Is it 10
people, 100 people?
Director Peters. Under a hundred people, but I wouldn't
want to guess beyond that.
Senator Graham. Okay. So, your testimony is, that under a
hundred people have been assigned to female prisons that came
into the system, or came into the world as biological males. Is
that correct?
Director Peters. Senator, again, I'd want to confirm that
number----
Senator Graham. Okay.
Director Peters [continuing]. And get back to you.
Senator Graham. Okay. When you go through the evaluation of
what prison to put a person in, do you consider the safety of
female prisoners?
Director Peters. Senator, safety and security, when we make
those housing assignments is----
Senator Graham. Is that in the manual----
Director Peters [continuing]. Top priority.
Senator Graham. Is that in the manual of how you determine
who goes where?
Director Peters. It is, Senator.
Senator Graham. Can you send that to me and show me what
section of the prison manual talks about assignment of
prisoners when it comes to the transgender issue, focuses on
safety of female prisoners?
Director Peters. We can.
Senator Graham. That's in the manual?
Director Peters. The safety of those in our care and
custody----
Senator Graham. No. It talks about the safety of the person
being--requesting retransition. It doesn't talk about the
safety of people in the jail where they will go. If I'm wrong,
please correct me.
Director Peters. Senator, I do--I do not have the language
of the manual memorized in order to recite it----
Senator Graham. I--I----
Director Peters [continuing]. Back to you----
Senator Graham [continuing]. I under----
Director Peters [continuing]. Here today----
Senator Graham. I understand that.
Director Peters [continuing]. But what I can tell you----
Senator Graham. You changed the policy. I just want to know
how it works, and I want to know what the numbers are. Thank
you.
Director Peters. Thank you, Senator.
Chair Durbin. Senator Hirono.
Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Peters, this
is not the first time that I will be mentioning the fact that
Hawaii does not have a reentry halfway house.
So, in 2019, the only residential reentry facility in
Hawaii, Mahoney Hale, closed its doors. And I don't need to
tell you how important reentry programs are for successful
reintegration into the community.
And in fact, a recent report by the National Institute of
Justice talked about the importance of how, how--of these
reentry programs, because having grown accustomed to the
stringent protocols in a prison, reentry can often become
overwhelming as a previously incarcerated person adjusts back
to society. And this definitely has a connection to recidivism.
So, you know, since we're very focused on lowering
recidivism, I think the importance of allowing a person to go
through the reentry program becomes ever more important.
So, in 2019--and I have been contacted by persons who have
pointed out the lack of a reentry program. And I just want to
mention, in 2019, a Hawaii resident incarcerated at the women's
Federal prison camp in Phoenix, Arizona, reached out to my
office and she expressed dismay that Mahoney Hale was closing
because it meant there would be nowhere for her to go when she
was ready to transition back to society.
And she asked, ``What is going to happen to all of us
prisoners from Hawaii and Guam? '' Four years later, we still
do not have an answer for her. In 2020, my office was contacted
by a woman whose husband was sentenced to a halfway house in
Oregon because there was nowhere for him to go in Hawaii.
I know that the Bureau of Prisons has issued a request for
proposals numerous times. And since you have not been getting
any responses to that, have you determined what is the reason
that you have not gotten any responses to your RFPs?
And could one of the reasons be that there's some sort of a
requirement that the program that is--the people running the
program have to own the facility? Is that a limiting--or is
that a factor in why you have not gotten any responses to your
numerous RFPs for a reentry facility in Hawaii?
Director Peters. Thank you, Senator. Well, this is very
important to me. I know that you mentioned this during the last
hearing a year ago, and this is something that we have been
working on.
In fact, I have a trip planned to visit your district to
meet with local law enforcement, meet with the judges, and meet
with the community, and your staff, in order to better
understand this issue.
We have received notice that the day reporting center, it
looks like that is going to be under contract. And so, we're
hoping that that is going to be a small step in the right
direction. But we need a residential reentry center on the
island.
And so our hope is that we are going to be able to work
together to solve this problem. Your comments are spot on.
Having that local residential reentry center for the citizens
of Hawaii is incredibly important.
Senator Hirono. Yes. At this point--Director Peters, it has
been 4 years. And so, at this point I'd like to get to what is
it that is resulting in a lack of a facility in Hawaii?
And I'm not blaming the Bureau of Prisons. Perhaps we need
to work with the State of Hawaii because the previous people
who were running the facility had leased the space from the
State.
And maybe we need to work with the State of Hawaii to
provide a--the property, something, some kind of a resolution
to this situation so that we can have a bit of response for the
people who have been contacting me.
I just want to also mention that regarding the treatment of
transgender prisoners, you do have a statutory mandate to
provide for the safekeeping and provide for the protection of
all people in BOP's custody.
And that also means that you do need to take into
consideration a transgender prisoner's views on his or her own
safety. And that weighs in the decision of how to provide for
the safety of that person. Is that not so?
Director Peters. That is absolutely correct, Senator. We
take into account their views as well as everyone's views on
where they think that they can be better served from a safety
security perspective or a programming and treatment
perspective. And we take safety and security of the assignment
of those individuals very seriously.
Senator Hirono. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chair Durbin. Senator Grassley.
Senator Grassley. Thank you and welcome to the Committee.
On December 2022 hearing on sexual abuse of inmates in Federal
prisons, you testified that, ``Contraband is beginning of
sexual assault.'' Those few words are a quote from you.
Inspector General Horowitz agreed and asked for increased
penalties for contraband smuggling. Do you agree with Inspector
General Horowitz's request for increased penalties?
Director Peters. He and I have discussed that. I think that
every tool needs to be considered in order to combat this
significant issue of contraband, and I think this would be an
additional tool in our toolbox.
Senator Grassley. Okay. In your professional opinion, could
giving design drawings for U.S.-based correctional facilities
to foreign officials who work for cartels threaten American
security?
Director Peters. Senator, we would want those floor plans
very secured. A release of anything like that would be a
serious security concern at the Federal Bureau of Prisons.
Senator Grassley. Okay. Last week I released a 76-page
report on foreign operations in Mexico, disclosing the Colorado
Department of Corrections in coordination with the State
Department, agreed to share drawings from Colorado State
Penitentiary 1 facilities with Mexico's Secretary of Public
Security.
We know now that certain Secretary of Public Security
leadership was working with the Sinaloa Cartel.
I'm asking if you could investigate what information the
United States gave the Mexican government about U.S.-based
correctional facilities and assess the impact on Bureau of
Prison Security?
Director Peters. Senator, I don't know that I would be the
appropriate component or entity to investigate what information
was exchanged. What I can tell you, as the Director of the
Federal Bureau of Prisons, we would be very careful of whom we
shared our blueprints and designs with as it relates to safety
and security.
Senator Grassley. I like the last half of your question. In
regard to the first half, you said you couldn't go to the State
Department and get that information?
Director Peters. I'm not saying I can't. I'm not sure I'm
the right entity to investigate that situation in Colorado.
Senator Grassley. Well, I think--I think you'd want to know
if our own Government would be involved in sharing information
on prisons, generally because they might be doing it for
prisons under your leadership.
Director Peters. I can certainly look into it, Senator, and
get back to you.
Senator Grassley. Okay. Well, if you look into it, I'd like
to know what you find out, and if you get the information that
I've been trying to get, I'd sure like to have it. So I hope
you'll share that with us.
But tell us one way or the other if you can get that
information, and if you can't get it, tell me why you can't get
it. Because I think it's very important that you know whether
our Government is sharing information on our prison layouts
with a foreign country.
According to the Department of Justice's Inspector General
Report from this year, it found that inmate-on-staff's sexual
misconduct is widespread across the Bureau of Prison facilities
and primarily affects female employees.
The report also found that in 2021, there were 2,047
sustained allegations of inmate-on-staff sexual assaults based
on five categories of offenses.
Yet the Bureau of Prison only used two categories of
offenses in its First Step Act report and identified seven
sustained allegations. There is a significant difference.
So, Madam Director, please explain why the Bureau of
Prisons didn't use the same category of offenses as the
Inspector General, and what steps has the Bureau of Prison
taken to ensure its data is full and complete so that future
First Step Act reports offer Congress a full picture.
Director Peters. Thank you, Senator. I'll have to look at
the coding and get back to you on that discrepancy.
But what I can tell you is, sexual misconduct by the
individuals in our custody against our employees will not be
tolerated.
Not only are we working to hold them accountable, the
Deputy Attorney General and I have met with all of the U.S.
Attorneys on multiple occasions to ask for criminal prosecution
of these individuals in order to send a clear message that not
only are we going to hold them accountable administratively
through our Federal Bureau of Prison sanctions, but we want
them held accountable criminally, as well.
Senator Grassley. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chair Durbin. Thank you. Senator Welch.
Senator Welch. Thank you. Director Peters, thank you. And I
appreciated your visit that we had some months ago.
I wanted to talk about reentry centers. They're incredibly
important.
You know, most people who go to prison ultimately get out
of prison and it's--as my colleague from Hawaii was mentioning,
these--the reentry centers are extraordinarily helpful for
folks to not be repeat offenders.
We don't have one in Vermont. My understanding is that
we've been told that the Bureau has conducted a market study,
and, in fact, that study indicates Vermont needs a reentry
center. But nothing is available.
I certainly think we do need a reentry center. Do you
support establishing a reentry center in Vermont?
Director Peters. Thank you, Senator. And I, too,
appreciated our conversation in your office. So, thank you. And
I do support it.
And just, as of yesterday, hot off the press, I have good
news to report. We have issued an RFP for Burlington, Vermont,
to try and get a residential reentry center in your State.
Senator Welch. Well, thank you for that news. So, tell me
what that means specifically.
Director Peters. That means that we're asking for
individuals to come forward and respond to that request for
proposal and engage in a contract with us.
So, it's my hope that even discussing it today will
encourage people who are listening to apply for that RFP and be
willing to run a residential reentry center in Vermont.
Senator Welch. Okay. Thank you for that news.
The other point I want to focus on is the programming to
help reduce recidivism. And there's been many studies, as you
know, that show programs that offer the largest reduction in
recidivism are for secondary and post-secondary education.
It's hard, but it's helpful. And studies have shown also
that these are very cost effective. If you have less
recidivism, then that's less of a burden on the Bureau of
Prisons.
And as part of the First Step Act, as you know, again, the
Bureau of Prisons is required to introduce evidence-based
recidivism reductions for Federal inmates. My question is, what
percentage of programming has reopened since the height of the
COVID pandemic?
Director Peters. Thank you, Senator. I don't know the
percentage that has reopened post-COVID, but I can tell you as
of September 1st, we had over 110 evidence-based recidivism
reduction programs and productive activities.
And I know that when I visit our institutions, they're
reporting additional expansions and additional ideas. So, I
know that number will continue to grow.
Senator Welch. So, could you describe the steps that the
Bureau is taking to integrate GED, secondary, and post-
secondary education into the evidence-based recidivism
reduction program?
Director Peters. So, we're very proud of our GED program at
the Federal Bureau of Prisons. And as it relates to secondary
education, we're very excited for the expansion of Pell Grants,
which Congress approved and became effective in July.
So, we have been working with our local community
correction--excuse me, not community corrections--community
colleges to apply for that Pell Grant status so that they can
assist us in expanding our post-secondary efforts under the new
expanded Pell Grants.
Senator Welch. So, can you just explain how the process
works for an inmate? I'm an inmate and I am now in one of your
facilities. How is it that I get into or I'm encouraged to get
into an education program?
Director Peters. You know, their unit manager and their
counselor would work on their case plan, and what they're
capable of, and what their goals are.
And then they would hold their hand and walk them through
the application process and getting them involved in that GED
program or that secondary education program.
Senator Welch. Can you just describe what some of the
impediments are? Some may be because of the inmates, some may
be because of the resources, but what are the impediments to
participation in the program?
Director Peters. Readiness for the adults in custody to be
academically ready to get through the GED, and then
academically ready for secondary, post-secondary education.
The other impediments are having local resources available,
the community colleges to provide that secondary education. But
I believe that the expansion of the Pell Grants is going to
help us get over that hurdle, as well.
Senator Welch. Okay. Thank you very much. I yield back.
Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Welch. Senator Cotton.
Senator Cotton. Ms. Peters, it came to my attention that
Members of this Committee submitted written questions the last
time you appeared, and I don't think we've gotten responses
back. Are you aware of that?
Director Peters. I am, Senator.
Senator Cotton. Can we count on getting responses to those
questions soon?
Director Peters. We are working diligently to get those
responses back to you.
Senator Cotton. What's been the long delay?
Director Peters. You know, it's been a long process. We
always want to get these answers right. And there's a review
process going back and forth between the Federal Bureau of
Prisons and the Department to ensure that our answers are
consistent with----
Senator Cotton. Can----
Director Peters [continuing]. The Department's policies
impact.
Senator Cotton [continuing]. Can we get a date certain,
like maybe a month from today, October 13th?
Director Peters. Senator, I would love a date certain.
Unfortunately, I cannot provide that to you.
Senator Cotton. So, no. And I assume you won't provide a
date certain to any new questions we have then either. Right?
Director Peters. That's correct, Senator.
Senator Cotton. All right. You mentioned in your opening
statement you talked to stakeholders in something called
justice-involved individuals. What's a justice-involved
individual?
Director Peters. Someone who has been involved in the
criminal justice system.
Senator Cotton. So, criminal?
Director Peters. Criminal or victims. We had a listening
session----
Senator Cotton. Okay.
Director Peters [continuing]. Where victims also discussed
the impact of the criminal system----
Senator Cotton. Is there a reason we don't just call them
criminals and victims?
Director Peters. Pardon me?
Senator Cotton. Is there a reason why we don't just use
plain English and call them criminals and victims?
Director Peters. Justice-involved individuals is a term
that I use regularly.
Senator Cotton. Okay. You said that you'd been to 20
prisons in the last 12 months. That's about once every two and
a half weeks. On average, how many hours do you spend in a
correctional facility when you visit it?
Director Peters. Probably six or more hours when I'm
visiting.
Senator Cotton. Okay. So, close to a full working day when
you're there?
Director Peters. Yes.
Senator Cotton. How many of those hours do you spend on
average with your correctional officers?
Director Peters. Well, when I am there, I spend about an
hour with my executive team that's on the ground locally, and
then the rest of it is walking the halls of the institution.
And I try to stop and talk to every correctional officer that
I----
Senator Cotton. Any organized sit-downs with correctional
officers?
Director Peters. We had an organized sit-down with our
national union, but it's more walking and talking----
Senator Cotton. Okay.
Director Peters [continuing]. And meeting with them one-on-
one at their post. I prefer that, over pulling them off their
post to have a conversation.
Senator Cotton. Got it. Have you visited the Forrest City,
Arkansas, Institution?
Director Peters. No, I have not.
Senator Cotton. Would you like to join me on a visit there?
Director Peters. I'd be happy to join you on a visit.
Senator Cotton. Okay. Because you know the incoming union
chief who's taking over from Shane Fausey--Brandy White is an
officer at Forrest City.
Director Peters. We are----
Senator Cotton. I wish we would've had a second panel today
with them. We had one last year, but I guess the Chairman
didn't want to have a second panel with the union members
today.
I want to touch this augmentee issue. Last year we passed a
law that required your employees to spend 90 percent of their
time on their primary responsibility.
If you're a correctional officer, 90 percent on
corrections.
If you're an HVAC technician, 90 percent on HVAC.
What is the status today of the 90 percent requirement? Are
you meeting that requirement?
Director Peters. We are working hard to meet that
requirement----
Senator Cotton. That sounds like a no.
Director Peters [continuing]. And so we are continuing to
battle our recruitment and retention issues----
Senator Cotton. Eighty percent?
Director Peters. I don't have----
Senator Cotton. Seventy percent?
Director Peters. Yes, I don't have an overall number for
you, Senator.
Senator Cotton. How can you not have an overall number of
what your core officers are doing? Not research associates, not
administrative assistants, but these--like this, they perform
the mission of your organization and you don't know how much
time they're spending?
Director Peters. Senator, it changes every day and is
different at every single institution.
Senator Cotton. There's got to be an average, though.
Director Peters. I don't have an average, Senator.
Senator Cotton. I mean, hitters go over .400 in a day, but
they can still hit .350 in a season. There's got to be an
average. Right?
I'm disappointed you don't have an average.
This is not--it's not like some political hot potato. I'm
not asking you about men who claim to be women to go into
women's prisons. This is like a core responsibility of your
organization.
Let's turn to why you're not meeting that staffing numbers.
You said in your written testimony that you're at 88 percent
funded positions. How many correctional officer positions did
the President request, and Congress authorize and fund, for
2023?
Director Peters. Senator, I don't have that number in front
of me, but we can certainly get back to you.
Senator Cotton. Twenty thousand, four hundred forty-six. Do
you know what it was last year?
Director Peters. No, Senator.
Senator Cotton. Twenty thousand, four hundred forty-six.
How many correctional officers are currently employed?
Director Peters. We, like you just mentioned, we--the
percentage is 88 percent of the funded----
Senator Cotton. No--correctional officers, not total slots.
Correctional officers----
Director Peters. I don't have that----
Senator Cotton [continuing]. How many do you have?
Director Peters [continuing]. I don't have that number in
front of me, but I can get it and get back to you, Senator.
Senator Cotton. Ms. Peters, again, these are your primary
employees. These are the meat eaters, not the leaf eaters that
do all the other jobs. And you don't know how many you have
employed?
Do you think it's--if you have 20,446 authorized, do you
think it's 18,000?
Director Peters. Senator, I know that the number is 88
percent of those funded positions.
Senator Cotton. No, no, that's your total positions.
Director Peters. Yes.
Senator Cotton. Do you think you have--do you think it's
closer to 8,000 or 18,000 correctional officers?
Director Peters. I think it's closer to 18,000, but we----
Senator Cotton. That's----
Director Peters [continuing]. Can get that number and get
back to you, sir.
Senator Cotton [continuing]. Kind of right in the middle,
maybe a little on the--verging toward 8,000. It's 12,731, which
say 60 percent that you had authorized for last year and this
year. Yet you're boasting of an 88 percent total employment
rate.
And then you're complaining that you don't have enough
officers to meet the 90 percent requirement that we mandated--
that President Biden signed into law.
It sounds to me like you need to spend a lot more time and
money focused on hiring the people who are performing your
organization's chief responsibility and less support personnel.
Why is your organization at 88 percent total, but your core
job only at 60 percent?
Director Peters. So, Senator, I don't know what that number
is, so I'm not going to say on the record that it's 60 percent,
but we'll get that number and get back to you.
But I will tell you, all of--the majority of our
recruitment efforts over the last year has been for those
correctional officers.
Senator Cotton. But--but you're not meeting it. You're at
88 percent for overall employees, which includes all those leaf
eaters I mentioned. You're at barely 60 percent for your meat
eaters, the people who are doing the main mission of your job.
It seems--my time's up here--but it seems to me like the
BOP needs to do a much better job recruiting and hiring
corrections officers since that is what you actually do is
corrections, and much less time hiring all these other support
personnel and headquarters personnel.
I look forward to seeing you in Forrest City.
Chair Durbin. Senator Ossoff.
Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And Director
Peters, good to see you, again.
Director Peters. Thank you, Senator. Good to see you.
Senator Ossoff. You entered this post with a reputation as
a reformer. When you took this job, you expressed to this
Committee, to the Permanent Subcommittee of Investigations, and
to the public, your commitment to reform. And I said to you, at
that time, that the question is whether or not you would
deliver.
You've now been in the post for about a year, and Congress
expects results.
I want to begin by talking about the sexual assault of
female inmates in BOP custody. Investigation I led at the
Permanent Subcommittee of Investigations last year found that
in two thirds of BOP institutions that housed female inmates,
female inmates had been sexually assaulted by members of staff.
What specific steps have you taken in the last year to end
the sexual assault of BOP inmates?
Director Peters. A whole host of things, Senator. So, we
have engaged in cultural assessments at all of our female
facilities. We've brought in external consultants to help us
engage in trauma-informed care and gender responsivity.
The most important thing that we've done is work to hold
those who have engaged in that abuse accountable.
The Deputy Attorney General herself has visited our
facilities and launched a SAFER teams review of our female
facilities across this country, and brought forth
recommendations that we are also implementing.
We continue to work with law enforcement and U.S. Attorneys
to hold those individuals accountable, and continue to increase
our training so that when we hire the right people on the front
end, they are then trained to do their job.
Senator Ossoff. Okay. Let's talk about two specific
deficiencies that we had identified in the PSI report.
One, the efficacy of PREA audits. At institutions that had
passed their PREA audits, there was nevertheless widespread
sexual assault.
At one institution that had passed its PREA audit, the
warden and the chaplain were later found to have raped inmates.
What steps have you taken to ensure that the PREA audits
identify indicators of sexual assault in prisons?
Director Peters. So, the PREA audit is based on the
standards put forth across the country for all correctional
facilities. And they did great things. They did things like
ensure that reporting structures were in place. That oversight
was in place. That individuals were given information around
their right to be safe.
Unfortunately, PREA doesn't predict future behavior. And so
our--our work is in hiring the right people, training the right
people. And when they do act in this egregious criminal way, to
hold them accountable.
Senator Ossoff. Have any changes been made to the process
by which BOP contracts for these PREA audits reviews these PREA
audits?
Director Peters. No, Senator.
Senator Ossoff. Okay. Are you personally reviewing incident
reports from BOP facilities?
Director Peters. So, I sit down with the head of the Office
of Internal Affairs and HR every month and go through the list
of allegations across the country, and they highlight the most
egregious ones. They highlight the numbers. We talk about
length of stay as it relates to the investigation.
Senator Ossoff. Are you personally reviewing fatality
reports?
Director Peters. I am. I am reviewing the Suicide
Reconstruction Reports.
Senator Ossoff. Are you reading Suicide Reconstruction
Reports in full?
Director Peters. I am.
Senator Ossoff. In addition to the shortcomings of the PREA
audits--and I don't think it's fair to say that they were doing
great things when at institutions where leadership was engaged
in sexual assault, the audits came back clean.
But putting that aside--putting that aside, another key
issue that we identified were the shortcomings in the Office of
Internal Affairs, and, in particular, the multi-thousand case
backlog of investigations.
What steps have been taken to clear that backlog and how
much progress has been made?
Director Peters. And if I might, just for a second, PREA
did----
Senator Ossoff. Well, my time is very limited.
Director Peters. PREA did great things 20 years ago. That
was the point I was trying to make.
Senator Ossoff. Okay.
Director Peters. As it relates to the Office of Internal
Affairs, that backlog was something that has been there for a
while. We added more than 50 positions to the Office of
Internal Affairs. They have now been hired and trained, and we
will start seeing that backlog and the timeliness of
investigations improve.
Senator Ossoff. What is the state of the backlog today?
Director Peters. I don't have those numbers in front of me,
but I can get those for you sent.
Senator Ossoff. Okay. Yes. By the end of the week, could
you please send the Committee the total number of backlog cases
and your targets for its improvement over the next year?
Director Peters. I can't guarantee you that it'll be by the
end of the week, but we will work diligently to get that
response back to you.
Senator Ossoff. Okay. Well, we'll hope for it quickly. Mr.
Chairman, with your indulgence, I know there are a couple of
Members waiting, but I want to ask you about U.S. Penitentiary,
Atlanta.
And Senator Cotton was discussing the staffing issues, the
difficulty meeting the presidentially requested and
congressionally authorized staffing number.
More than 20,000 correctional officers who are meant to be
employed by BOP--under 13,000 who are currently on staff,
significant issues with the use of augmentation, the inability
of personnel to engage in augmentation, for example, over
weekends leading to lockdowns, deficiencies, and conditions and
service for inmates, staff being put at risk.
What specific steps are you taking to ensure that
correctional officers can be recruited and hired at competitive
salaries and retained?
Director Peters. So, we have rolled out retention and
incentive--recruitment incentives across the country at certain
facilities that are really struggling.
We've really worked hard to work with an outside consultant
to change how we're branding ourselves and marketing ourselves
so that we get that solid corrections professional to come into
the front door. And we have--that--this has been a top priority
for us over the last year.
Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chair Durbin. Senator Tillis.
Senator Tillis: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Director Peters,
thank you for being here, and thank you for the time that we
shared in my office getting an update.
Going back to some of Chair Durbin's opening statements. We
talked about the work that you're doing in reform, but we have
to understand we all play a role in that.
I mean, there are $2 billion in maintenance backlog. That's
just actually trying to get facilities like Butner to a point
to where the employees have a safe working facility. That
doesn't get to any kind of transformational reform. That just
basically gets us to where we should have been to begin with.
So, we need to make sure, as we start asking for reform,
what role we're going to play to actually bring it about versus
having it discussed every year, and really not a lot of
progress.
I do have to do a little bit of case work. You and I talked
about Butner. I've had 50 complaints from my office, from
employees at Butner. We all know the conditions--the roof, the
other--the other challenges that we have there.
I just need to get an update and see positive trending
there. You gave me some hope. But I know that which is not
measured seldom gets achieved, and we've got to start tracking
this pretty closely.
So I just want to make sure I've got your commitment.
When I have these constituent inquiries, 50 of them, I can
share with you the nature of the complaints--there's about four
or five key areas--that I have to get a timely response for the
purposes, not of your employees, but my constituents. They're
playing a dual role there. Do I have your commitment to make
sure that you can do that in an expeditious manner?
Director Peters. Senator, we're happy to respond to those
requests.
Senator Tillis. I also think that we need to solve what we
know, and I could even see by the reaction in this audience.
We've got different people here viewing--particularly noted,
Senator Cotton's questions, which I tend to agree with.
But we've got a disconnect between management and the
people in the facility. We have to see people getting to a
table and resolving that disconnect.
Do I have your commitment to be one of the people that's
going to be moving toward having the right discussion with the
executive staff at Butner, the union officials, employees, and
other stakeholders to make progress on this challenge?
Director Peters. Senator, we continue our conversations
with our national union. I do rely on the local warden and the
re--and the--our regional director to have those conversations
locally.
But with the incoming president, we plan and have already
discussed to continue the same conversations we had with Shane
Fausey on his----
Senator Tillis. Well, it's sort of like Congress. If you're
not talking, you're not making progress. And we need to make
sure that there are good faith discussions going on to make
progress.
I also want to thank everybody that works in the facility
at Butner and across the system, particularly the corrections
officers for the work you're doing. That's why I wore the flag
today. You're a part of the blue, and I ``Back the Blue.''
I also want to talk about something that relates to Senator
Graham's questions and I think loosely that Senator Cotton's,
and it has to do on the biological gender versus a gender that
requires you to make a decision.
I think it's very important to get the information that
Senator Graham asked for--just how many, I want to know. And I
want to know, in either direction--whether it's a biological
male who is being considered transferred to a female facility
or any biological female who's requested being transferred to a
male facility.
I also wanted to know if that--you said the community
standard of care. Is that something that is overseen by the BOP
Transgender Executive Council?
Director Peters. That would be part of their deliberations,
that community standard of care, as they determine what is
medically necessary.
Senator Tillis. Okay. So, I'm curious about, I think it was
the first of its kind. If it's not, correct me, but I think it
was inmate Langan--a neo-Nazi who helped found the Aryan
Republican Army, convicted of bank robbery in 1997--in
September 2021, I think, sought approval and in January of 2023
received gender reassignment medical procedure.
And I guess has subsequently dropped the case because he
felt like the BOP--she felt like the BOP did not properly
execute facial hair removal.
Has that been--has that been resolved? Is that the only
case of its kind or are there other cases like this in the BOP?
Director Peters. Senator, I'm not familiar with this
individual patient, but we would be happy to look into it and
get back to you.
Senator Tillis. Yes, well, I, I'm just curious if it's a
first of a kind or if it's something--it made me think to ask
this question because we were also--we're trying to get the
data from, that Senator Graham asked, but is this something
that we're going to see more of? Has it become systematized and
could we potentially see more of it?
And, you know, quite honestly, you're going to be hard
pressed for me to find someone who is convicted of a serious
crime to then receive taxpayer dollars to allow this transition
when we've heard about all the limited resources for the
hardworking people in the Bureau of Prisons.
So, I'd like to know whether or not we actually have people
in Bureau of Prisons who think that prioritizing the
expenditure of dollars for convicted felons should take
priority in a world of scarce resources over all the things
we're dealing with at Butner and across the system.
I'll follow up with questions for the record. Thank you,
again, for your time.
Director Peters. Thank you, Senator.
Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Tillis.
And I might say to the Director, why don't we--I'd like to
complete the list of things related to this topic, particularly
which medical services are being provided pursuant to court
order. I believe that is a fact, and the situation.
And it also--the incidents of abuse against those who are
transgender women who remain in male prisons. We want safety
for all, and that would include them, as well.
Director Peters. Thank you, Senator.
Chair Durbin. Thank you.
Director Peters. Thank you.
Chair Durbin. Senator Klobuchar.
Senator Klobuchar. Thank you, thank you, Chairman.
Director, last year we talked about my bipartisan bill,
Senator Cornyn and I put forward, to ensure that women in
custody receive access to the prenatal and postpartum care that
they need.
The bill would establish care standards for how Federal
facilities treat pregnant and postpartum women in custody while
ensuring they have access to critical healthcare and
nutritional services.
Could you--did you have a chance to look at that and do you
agree that we should ensure that pregnant women in custody
receive healthcare? Could you just give me a status report on
what's happening there?
Director Peters. I can, Senator. So, yes, I did read the
bill following the last hearing and read it again in prep for
this one. So, thank you.
In February of 2022, the Federal Bureau of Prisons issued
the management of pregnant and postpartum offenders with
technical guidance in there that I think speaks parallel to
your bill.
Some of the things I'll just mention is, we are careful not
to restrain pregnant or postpartum women. Women have the
opportunity to bond with their children. We offer them what we
call the MINT Program--the Mothers and Infants Together
Program--at 5 community-based facilities.
In the event that the women can't leave the Federal Bureau
of Prisons and bond with their child in that community setting,
we do have an inter-government agreement with the State of
Washington, who does have a residential parenting program.
And then we also offer women who remain in the institution
an opportunity to engage in prenatal and postpartum parenting,
programming to assist them in raising those children from
inside.
Senator Klobuchar. Okay. I know one of the things in the
bill is requiring BOP to transfer inmates experiencing high-
risk pregnancies to a facility that can provide them adequate
care. Is that part of the standards that you have?
Director Peters. It is Senator, yes. We have a facility
specifically for women who are at high risk.
Senator Klobuchar. Okay. I have heard from constituents
about staffing shortages at--and I'm sure you've seen this
around the country, various other industries and entities are,
as well, but specifically at Bureau of Prisons facilities in
Minnesota.
These reports have been corroborated by an OIG report
released this May that found significant staffing shortages at
the Federal Correctional Institution in Waseca, Minnesota.
These staffing shortages have resulted in officers working
large amounts of overtime and non-correctional officer
employees, including cooks, and teachers, and nurses being
forced to fill in under that process, I believe, called
augmentation.
And, you know, I'm a big believer in doing a lot more on
workforce outside of the prisons, and it's everything from
workforce training to doing more on work permits and
immigration reform. But could you talk about what steps you are
doing to ensure that augmentation is used appropriately?
Director Peters. Thank you. So, you know, our employees,
and many of them are in the room, could speak to this, we were
exhausted before the pandemic, and then the labor market got
worse and views of law enforcement changed. And so recruitment
and retention has been an issue. It's been a top priority of
ours.
We consulted with two external organizations to help us
understand our staffing issue and change how we market and
brand ourselves to bring additional people in.
We've seen improvement. We had a 60 percent increase in
those that applied to the organization in the last year, and a
20 percent decrease in separations. So we are not where we need
to be to end augmentation and overtime, but we are making
progress.
Senator Klobuchar. What steps can Congress take to help
States that want to address the issue of understaffing at BOP
facilities?
Director Peters. You know, I believe that there are two
categories. One, help us sell who we are and what we're about.
And that the Federal Bureau of Prisons is an amazing place to
work, because I believe it is.
There are heroes behind me who do amazing work every single
day. And any help with the labor market, I mean, that is, as
you mentioned, everyone is struggling right now----
Senator Klobuchar. Mm-hmm.
Director Peters [continuing]. And it's just compounded in
law enforcement and correction.
Senator Klobuchar. Yes, I actually visited this facility
once that I referred to, and I left with that feeling in terms
of the work the employees were doing.
But also the inmates, the skills they were learning and
just the energy in terms of what they could do with those
skills when they got out, which we have to be thinking about,
as well, in terms of our workforce--that, obviously with
exception of very violent offenders and people who are in for
life, as they should be.
There are a number of people that are going to get out that
are in there for different kinds of offenses that we want to
make sure are learning, learning these skills.
One last question. What is the Bureau of Prisons doing to
mitigate the negative effects that some of this understaffing
has on the mental health of BOP employees?
Director Peters. Yes, these are very complex and difficult
jobs, and then when you're engaged in overtime and
augmentation, that mental health and that physical struggle
gets even greater.
So, in the last year, we've changed and modified some of
our employee wellness policies to increase resources to our
employees, to ensure that our crisis teams have more
availability and access to our employees, and assist them at
following an incident.
We've also changed our practice so that retirees can access
these resources, and that's just the beginning. We will
continue to work on employee wellness, both physical and mental
health.
Senator Klobuchar. Thank you.
Director Peters. Thank you, Senator.
Chair Durbin. Senator Blackburn.
Senator Blackburn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Director,
thank you so much for being here with us today.
Director Peters. Thank you
Senator Blackburn. I do appreciate it.
As you would expect, I want to talk about Memphis and our
concerns we have there. There are so many structural problems.
And yesterday the Memphis staff met with my team and we heard
about the facility there.
You and I have discussed this previously, the leaking roof,
and I know you have said you're going to have a trip to Memphis
in October. But I would hope following our meeting and
following the way the employees at Memphis have highlighted
with you these problems, that you've got a timeline for
addressing these problems, and that that has not lingered.
And I would be hopeful that you are not waiting on the trip
to Memphis to decide to address these. And we've got the
Memphis employees here with us today, and I'm pleased that they
are here. So, talk to me about a timeline for addressing these
issues.
And we also found out that the SHU, the special housing
unit, yesterday is basically a condemned building. So, what is
your timeline for addressing that? What's the plan of action
that these employees can return to Memphis and say, ``Help is
on the way'' ?
Director Peters. Senator, thank you. And we've talked about
this in your office. I don't have the timeline in front of me,
but I know we discussed it in your office, and I know they're
making progress. I know, and I know the employees that are
here, I'm sure they're convinced progress is not fast enough.
We are constantly reprioritizing which structures need to
be fixed, but I know that we have plans in place at Memphis. I
assure you, we are not waiting to fix the facility structure
for my visit. Those plans will continue on the cadence that
they are supposed to be on----
Senator Blackburn. Okay.
Director Peters [continuing]. And I look forward to
visiting the facility.
Senator Blackburn. Could you get in writing that timeline
to me so that these employees know when that help is going to
be arriving--they know when to expect it, and that they know
that you all are indeed going to follow through on this?
Director Peters. Yes, Senator.
Senator Blackburn. Okay. If I could get that within the
week, that would be very helpful.
Director Peters. Senator, we'll work diligently to get that
to you.
Senator Blackburn. Great. Let's also talk about the drones,
because I know Memphis is understaffed. You and I had discussed
the drones and you said there was one drone that had been
apprehended. I think that when we talk about drugs in our
facilities, and there's been conversation in the questions here
today about that, this creates a problem for the staff.
And if these drones are flying in at night and we are
understaffed at night, but we know it--that it is--they're
bringing in illicit drugs, what is your plan specifically on
handling, addressing the drones?
Director Peters. Thank you, Senator. So, we are working
on--we are utilizing managed access systems, which capture all
cellular signals within the confines of a prison. We are
utilizing micro jamming systems to jam all cellular signals. We
are deploying and looking at cellular communications as defined
by a geospatial area.
So, that's a lot of technical language to say we're
leveraging the latest technology to ensure that we can handle
what you described, very accurately, as a very serious
situation with the drones. And it's--there's--the technology is
constantly changing, and we're just trying to stay ahead of
that changing technology.
Senator Blackburn. It's a hard thing to do.
Director Peters. Mm-hmm.
Senator Blackburn. I also want to ask you about home
confinement and those that--Federal prisoners that were put
into home confinement during the CARES Act. And, of course, the
COVID pandemic is over, but you decided to go ahead and leave
these individuals in home confinement rather than have them
returned to the facilities.
These are convicted criminals. They are serving their
sentence. So, where did you get the authority to decide to
leave them on home confinement? And why did you choose not to
return these? What was your decision matrix on that?
Director Peters. So, I used data to make that decision in
collaboration with the Department. So, we released over 13,000
individuals under the CARES Act, with less than half of a
percent of them returning to prison.
And so they were successful in the community, and so we
made the decision to keep what I think today's date are about
3,300 individuals in the community, hoping that they would be
better served in that situation than returning to prison.
Senator Blackburn. Well, I find it interesting that DOJ
thought they had the authority to give you the authority to do
that and to make that decision to allow them, even though the
emergency has ended. It is over. And it seems that these
prisoners should go back to prison to serve the balance of that
sentence. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator. Senator Whitehouse.
Senator Whitehouse. Thanks for being here, Director Peters,
and thanks for the meeting that we had. I appreciate that.
Director Peters. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Whitehouse. As you know, I was very involved in
establishing the time credits under the First Step Act to help
people prepare for successful release into the community by
participating in programs that create that good effect prior to
their release, including programs like addiction treatment, and
job training, and family reconciliation.
You have moved from manually calculating those credits,
which was kind of a mess, to an automatic system. How's the
transition from manual to automatic going? Can we put those
issues behind us, or do you still have concerns about the
automatic system?
Director Peters. Thank you, Senator. So, it didn't roll out
as smoothly as we had hoped. We had some technical glitches as
we rolled it out. We also intend to front load the earned time
credits so that those in our custody understand if they
continue to engage in programming and treatment, kind of, what
the carrot is out there for them.
And we found recently that we're having technical
difficulties with the front loading of those earned time
credits, as well. So, it has gotten better. It's not smooth and
it's not perfect yet, but we'll get there.
Senator Whitehouse. Okay. If you could expand on that a bit
in a written answer to me, just to fill in some additional
details, I'd appreciate that.
It appears that the program has been generally successful.
I think the latest data that is available to us is as of
January--the end of January of this year that 13,500
individuals had been released from residential reentry centers,
home confinement, and secure facilities with First Step Act
earned time credits.
And that, compared to a 43 percent recidivation rate for
the overall BOP population, they had that recidivation rate for
the First Step population was only 12.4 percent.
That suggests that the program is generally successful, but
as you know, the First Step Act contemplates a multiplicity of
potential programs. Are there preliminary results or are you
looking at which programs seem to be producing the best results
within the suite of eligible programs? And what can you tell us
about where the most successful areas are?
Director Peters. Thank you, Senator. So, from January to
August of this year, we had almost 23,000 individuals leave
through FSA, so that number's a little bit bigger because we
were able to capture that August data, and the recidivism
numbers that you present are accurate.
So, we do know this works. We have over 110 evidence-based
reduction programs and productive activities, and we are going
to continue to grow that number.
And our research department is looking at studying which
ones are more effective than others. We'd--I don't have that
data in front of me today, but we certainly can get back to
you.
Senator Whitehouse. Yes, I'd appreciate that. I think, you
know, there's a certain amount of time that it makes sense to
take, to make sure you have a sufficiently robust data pool----
Director Peters. That's right.
Senator Whitehouse [continuing]. So that you can draw those
correct conclusions. But I really would appreciate it if you
would keep in touch with me on that process. And I guess the
best way to do that is to get an update as to where you feel we
are right now as a question for the record in this hearing. So,
thank you.
Director Peters. Thank you, Senator.
Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Whitehouse. Senator Lee.
Senator Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Ms. Peters
for being here and for your service.
Director Peters. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Lee. Nearly 1 year ago, we held a hearing, I think
we're 2 weeks shy of being 1 year from that hearing.
Immediately following that hearing, I submitted a short
list of questions to you and have not yet received a response.
It was during that hearing that a couple of my colleagues asked
you about timely responses to questions from this Committee,
and you acknowledged that it was important to do that.
Can you tell me why you haven't responded to my questions
yet? These are not difficult questions, and most of our
nominees respond within a week or so of getting them.
Director Peters. Thank you, Senator. So, I, too, am
disappointed that those questions for the record have not yet
been answered.
We have been working on them diligently over the last year.
It has been a lot of back and forth with the Department. I was
hoping that they would be cleared this week. They're not yet.
That being said, we have done other things. We've increased
the number of employees in our legislative affairs, so the
individual requests that we have received----
Senator Lee. Two----
Director Peters [continuing]. Over the last year, have been
more timely----
Senator Lee. Can you tell me when I can receive a response
to those questions?
Director Peters. I don't--I don't have a specific date----
Senator Lee. Okay----
Director Peters [continuing]. For you, Senator, but I know
we're working on them.
Senator Lee. Okay. I'd appreciate it if you could get back
to me by the end of this month. That would be 1 year from the
date of the hearing, and I don't think that's too much to ask.
One of the reasons I'm asking about this, and I hate to
pester you on that, it's just, we do need answers to those
questions. They're important.
Among the questions that have been asked of you relate to
how we separate out male and female prisoners. We do this for
good reasons, reasons that relate to human biology, differences
between the sexes. And there are a lot of questions that we
have about how we do this.
It's quite concerning that the number of female inmates who
have become pregnant during the course of their confinement in
BOP custody is not zero.
And it's even more concerning that a substantial number of
those pregnancies are the result of the BOP forcing female
prisoners to share their facilities with biologically male
prisoners. It's really concerning.
Now, in January of 2022, the Bureau of Prisons adopted
definitions that have an impact in the area that I'm asking
about. Definitions for words like ``gender,'' ``gender
nonconforming,'' ``gender-affirming,'' and ``cisgender.''
For example, the Bureau of Prisons must now look at gender
as, quote, ``a construct used to classify a person as male,
female, both, or neither. Gender encompasses aspects of social
identity, psychological identity, and human behavior,'' closed
quote.
Now, I understand there are lots of feelings, lots of
different beliefs about those things. What I find most alarming
about this is that, notably absent from that list are things
that you might expect to see. That you might think should at
least be taken into account. Things like biological sex, like
reproductive organs, the presence of a Y chromosome, or
something as simple as a 5 o'clock shadow or an Adam's apple.
Is biology now a verboten subject when you determine which
prison you're going to send a prisoner to be incarcerated in?
Is that--is that now off limits?
Director Peters. No, Senator. In fact, I would present to
you today that the majority of those in our care and custody
are housed in facilities based on their chromosomal
distinctions.
Senator Lee. The majority of them, as we've always done,
and as any sane prison system always would. The majority of
them, it's good to know. But why not all of them? Why would you
ever subject female inmates, in particular, who face a series
of biological disadvantages relative to male prisoners--face a
number of vulnerabilities that male prisoners don't face. Why
would you ever subject female inmates to being incarcerated
against their will with biologically male prisoners? Can you
tell me one that's ever justified?
Director Peters. So, we also recognize, as do many experts,
that a person may identify as a different gender than their
biological one. And we recognize that at the Federal Bureau of
Prisons.
Senator Lee. Okay. But a prisoner, as I understand it, need
only convince a single Bureau of Prison's psychologist to sign
a form to have their identity considered for a transfer. Just
one person. And the request then has to be approved, but that's
really all that has to happen. It's almost a turnkey situation.
They convince one psychologist and the whole process is set in
motion.
And yet it's my understanding that BOP doesn't publish
statistics on the number of inmates who are assigned to a
prison that doesn't conform with their biological sex. Why is
that?
Director Peters. So, Senator, while that frontline
counselor starts the process, the process is very complex. It's
a multidisciplinary team that includes experts from psychology
and health services, and corrections that make that final
determination around----
Senator Lee. So why doesn't it publish the statistics?
Director Peters. Senator, I don't know why we don't publish
the statistics, but I can look into that and get back to you.
Senator Lee. Okay. That that'd be great. If you would
publish that, I would appreciate it.
Now, some have estimated that the number is around 1,300 as
of January 2022. To the extent that that estimate was even in
the ballpark, it's undoubtedly higher now, the longer that this
stays intact.
That is not an insubstantial number, especially when you
consider the fact that most prisoners in America are not in BOP
custody. That is, most prisoners are serving as sentence issued
by a State court for an offense under State law, not Federal.
It's a really large number.
And it's very concerning considering the number of
pregnancies that take place, the number of heinous
circumstances that can result from this, and in fact have
resulted from them.
I see my time has expired. I've got other questions to ask
you on this and other topics, including implementation of the
First Step Act. I will submit those in writing. Thank you.
Director Peters. Thank you, Senator.
Chair Durbin. Senator Cruz.
Senator Cruz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Peters, one of
President Biden's first acts after taking office was to issue
Executive Order 14006, mandating the contracts with privately
owned detention facilities not be renewed.
The order is intended, quote, ``To decrease incarceration
levels by reducing profit-based incentives to incarcerate by
phasing out the Federal Government's reliance on privately
operated criminal detention facilities.''
This order has created many unintended consequences,
including the closing of the Willacy County Regional Detention
Facility in Raymondville, Texas. The decision has had
tremendous negative consequences with little to no obvious
upside: forcing inmates to travel hundreds of miles round trip
for court appearances, impacting the accessibility of legal
counsel, and making family visits significantly more difficult.
It has also caused administration issues for the prison
system and harmed the local economy by eliminating these jobs.
Literally, every stakeholder that has a role to play in these
cases is opposed to this Biden policy. That includes the
Defense bar, the Federal Public Defender, the U.S. Attorney,
even the Federal bench, all have publicly asked for this policy
to be rescinded.
Unfortunately, as with the open borders under Joe Biden,
the Biden administration doesn't give a damn about how their
woke policies actually affect South Texas or the lives of
regular people.
Ms. Peters, how has Executive Order 14006 impacted the
Bureau of Prison's ability to house inmates and has it been a
negative impact or a positive impact?
Director Peters. Thank you, Senator. So, we were able to
come into compliance with the Executive order last--the end of
last November, and bring in those individuals from those
facilities that were closed and we were able to safely absorb
them into our current population.
Senator Cruz. Okay, that, that--you didn't answer my
question. How has it impacted the BOP and has it been positive
or negative?
Director Peters. I--Senator, I don't know that I can put it
in a positive or negative category. What I can----
Senator Cruz. So is----
Director Peters [continuing]. Say is----
Senator Cruz [continuing]. Is the Defense bar----
Director Peters [continuing]. We have safely absorbed----
Senator Cruz [continuing]. And the U.S. Attorney, and the
Federal bench, are they all wrong?
Director Peters. I'm not familiar with their opinions and
their reasons for opposing----
Senator Cruz. Okay. Unfortunately, you're illustrating that
the Biden administration doesn't care about South Texas if you
don't even know the impact it's having on all the stakeholders.
All right, let's shift to the topic Senator Lee was just
asking you about. Because I have to say, I found your answers
to him thoroughly unacceptable.
The 2022 Transgender Offender Manual, issued by the Bureau
of Prisons through your predecessors, reverted back to the
Obama Administration's initial designation and housing
programming assignments. Notably, biological sex at birth is no
longer the controlling determinant.
Right now today, how many biological males are housed in
female prisons under BOP?
Director Peters. Senator, I don't have those numbers in
front of me today, but----
Senator Cruz. Why don't you?
Director Peters. We could look at them and get back to you.
Senator Cruz. Why don't you? Did you----
Director Peters. I just don't have them top of mind.
Senator Cruz. Did you know you were going to be asked that
today?
Director Peters. No, Senator.
Senator Cruz. You didn't? Have you been asked that before?
Director Peters. On the record, Senator?
Senator Cruz. Yes.
Director Peters. I don't recall.
Senator Cruz. You were asked a year ago in writing and you
failed to answer it in writing. You knew damn well you were
going to be asked it today, but you don't want to answer it.
Senator Lee asked, ``Why don't you report the numbers? ''
You don't report the numbers, because you don't want people to
know the numbers. So, the fact that you sit there and say, ``I
don't know''--he said 1,300. Is that number in the ballpark?
Director Peters. Thirteen hundred as it relates to which
category Senator?
Senator Cruz. Biological males housed in female prisons?
Director Peters. No, that would be a much larger number.
Senator Cruz. Which is a larger number?
Director Peters. So, the number of individuals who even
identify as transgender at the Federal Bureau of Prisons is
around 1,700. And the number of individuals that are housed in
institutions not conforming with their biological sex are very
low.
Senator Cruz. Very low. Are we talking 100? Are we talking
10? Are we----
Director Peters. I think--we will look at the numbers.
We're talking less than 10.
Senator Cruz. So, your testimony here--I just want to
understand. Your testimony here today, is there are fewer than
10 biological males, human beings that were born male who are
housed in female prisons. Is that your testimony?
Director Peters. That is my understanding. And I will
confirm that and get back to you.
Senator Cruz. Okay. Of the 1700 prisoners you referenced,
how many of them are convicted sex offenders?
Director Peters. I do not know the answer to that, Senator.
Senator Cruz. Are you aware that Great Britain's numbers
according to a January 2022 report, is the proportion of male
born transgender offenders who are sex offenders in the UK
prison system, is roughly 60 percent? Significantly higher than
the 18 percent of the general population.
Are those numbers consistent with the American numbers?
Director Peters. I haven't--I'm not familiar with Great
Britain's numbers.
Senator Cruz. So, let me ask you this. How many female
inmates have been sexually assaulted by biological males who
BOP has housed in female prisons?
Director Peters. Senator, I would have to look into that
and get back to you.
Senator Cruz. Do you have an obligation to protect those
female prisoners?
Director Peters. Absolutely.
Senator Cruz. And so, have you examined how many women have
been sexually assaulted by biological males that BOP has placed
in the prison with those women?
Director Peters. I have not, Senator, but I will tell you
that safety and security in the placement of every individual
in our custody is top of mind and the most important.
Senator Cruz. So, if it's top of mind, why haven't you
examined how many have been sexually assaulted? This is an
obvious question.
If you put a man with male genitals with a male body in a
female prison who's a convicted sex offender, it's not rocket
science that there's a real risk those women are going to be
victims of sexual assault.
How is it possible that you haven't even asked the
question, ``How many women are getting sexually assaulted
because of the policies of the Biden administration? ''
Director Peters. Senator, I assure you that safety and
security of these individuals are top of mind. And if there----
Senator Cruz. So, you haven't asked the question?
Director Peters [continuing]. If there was misconduct,
those individuals would be held accountable.
Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Cruz.
As you probably have noted, this is the Senate Judiciary
Committee with a subspecialty in transgender politics. It seems
that every time we have a hearing, we are talking about
transgender.
I know it's a topic of great concern to my colleagues and
they're welcome to ask their questions.
We estimate that one half of 1 percent of the population of
the United States is transgender. You would think it were a lot
larger, in light of some of the attention being paid to the
issue.
But having said that, I want to go back to the point that
was made by Senator Graham. We're talking about the safety of
all prisoners--all prisoners, regardless of their cisgender or
their--whether they're going through transition or any other
circumstances.
We also understand that we are dealing with the possibility
of those who identify as transgender being victimized. I'd like
to ask the Director, has that been an issue?
Director Peters. Senator, it has not been an issue that has
risen to my level.
Chair Durbin. Well, what we have been told is that
transgender women held in male facilities are uniquely
vulnerable. And according to the Justice Department, are abused
at higher rates than other population.
Pursuant to PREA, U.S. prisons already housed many women
who are transgender in women's facilities where they are
safest. Safety of the prisoners is the highest priority
regardless of their--I see you nodding in agreement. You have
said that earlier.
Director Peters. I agree.
Chair Durbin. So, if you would clarify some of the
questions that were asked earlier, I would appreciate that very
much.
I want to address a couple other issues that came up here.
One of the Senators suggested we needed a second panel this
year. I tried that last year and I won't name names, but some
of the Senators did not return for the second panel.
I am meeting with the national union this afternoon, and I
keep in touch with them on a regular basis, and will continue
to.
I also note that we seem to have bipartisan agreement,
which I want to make sure is headlined, that the BOP needs
significantly more funding for staffing, building maintenance
and repairs, and other critical needs. Let's see if that
translates into a bipartisan request for appropriations to
match with that.
You have an important job. You've been told a lot of
different things today.
I would tell you that Senators really take it personally
when you don't answer their questions. It's more than almost
any other thing.
And I would recommend that you make that a high priority.
It will lead to more comfortable circumstances in our next
meeting if you can do that. And I thank you for your service.
And with no further questions to come before the Committee,
we stand adjourned.
Director Peters. Thank you, sir.
[Whereupon, at 11:36 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
[Additional material submitted for the record follows.]
A P P E N D I X
Submitted by Chair Durbin:
Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW),
statement..................................................... 116
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