[Senate Hearing 118-609]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 118-609
A REVIEW OF DISASTER FUNDING NEEDS
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
SPECIAL HEARING
NOVEMBER 20, 2024--WASHINGTON, DC
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Appropriations
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
59-892 PDF WASHINGTON : 2025
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COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS
PATTY MURRAY, Washington, Chair
RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine, Vice
JACK REED, Rhode Island Chair
JON TESTER, Montana MITCH McCONNELL, Kentucky
JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon LINDSEY GRAHAM, South Carolina
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware JERRY MORAN, Kansas
BRIAN SCHATZ, Hawaii JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
CHRISTOPHER MURPHY, Connecticut SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West
JOE MANCHIN, III, West Virginia Virginia
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
GARY PETERS, Michigan BILL HAGERTY, Tennessee
KYRSTEN SINEMA, Arizona KATIE BRITT, Alabama
MARCO RUBIO, Florida
DEB FISCHER, Nebraska
Evan D. Schatz, Staff Director
Elizabeth McDonnell, Minority Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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Page
Opening Statement of Chair Patty Murray.......................... 1
Statement of Vice Chair Susan M. Collins......................... 3
Statement of Hon. Jon Ossoff, U.S. Senator, Georgia.............. 5
Prepared Statement........................................... 7
Statement of Hon. Thom Tillis, U.S. Senator, North Carolina...... 7
Prepared Statement........................................... 9
Statement of Hon. Pete Buttigieg, Secretary, U.S. Department of
Transportation................................................. 11
Prepared Statement........................................... 13
Statement of Hon. Isabel Guzman, Administrator, U.S. Small
Business Administration........................................ 14
Prepared Statement........................................... 16
Statement of Hon. Xochitl Torres Small, Deputy Secretary, U.S.
Department of Agriculture...................................... 17
Prepared Statement........................................... 18
Statement of Hon. Adrianne Todman, Deputy Secretary, U.S.
Department of Housing and Urban Development.................... 23
Prepared Statement........................................... 24
Statement of Hon. Deanne Criswell, Administrator, Federal
Emergency Management Agency.................................... 26
Prepared Statement........................................... 28
Implementation of Supplemental Funds for Market Losses........... 35
Disaster Supplemental Needs...................................... 42
Concerns From Lenders............................................ 44
Direct Assistance Program for Conventional Dairy................. 48
Livestock Indemnity Program Eligibility Criteria................. 49
Structuring Disaster Relief...................................... 49
Addressing Livestock Programs.................................... 51
Hermit Peak Disaster Recovery Team............................... 53
Farmer Economic Relief........................................... 54
Estimating Farm Losses........................................... 59
Universal Disaster Application................................... 65
Forest Service Disaster Estimates................................ 67
Additional Committee Questions................................... 69
Questions Submitted to Hon. Pete Buttigieg:
Questions Submitted by Senator Lisa Murkowski............ 69
Question Submitted to Hon. Xochitl Torres Small:
Question Submitted by Vice Chair Susan M. Collins........ 71
Questions Submitted to Hon. Adrianne Todman:
Questions Submitted by Senator Lisa Murkowski............ 72
Questions Submitted to Hon. Isabel Guzman:
Questions Submitted by:
Senator Tammy Baldwin................................ 73
Vice Chair Susan M. Collins.......................... 74
Questions Submitted to Hon. Deanne Criswell:
Questions Submitted by:
Senator Tammy Baldwin................................ 74
Senator Lisa Murkowski............................... 74
Senator Bill Hagerty................................. 75
Conclusion of Hearing............................................ 75
A REVIEW OF DISASTER FUNDING NEEDS
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WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 20, 2024
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Appropriations,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:03 a.m., in
room SD-106, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Patty Murray
(chair), presiding.
Present: Senators Murray, Reed, Tester, Shaheen, Merkley,
Coons, Schatz, Baldwin, Murphy, Manchin, Van Hollen, Heinrich,
Peters, Collins, Murkowski, Moran, Hoeven, Boozman, Capito,
Kennedy, Hyde-Smith, Britt, and Fischer.
opening statement of chair patty murray
Chair Murray. Good morning. This committee will come to
order. Today, we are holding a hearing to discuss urgent
Federal funding needs for communities that are harmed by the
recent natural disasters.
Before we get started, I do want to acknowledge briefly.
This is the first hearing we have had since the election. It is
clear some things will look different next year, but one thing
will not change, and it is my commitment to working with
Senator Collins to keep doing the important work of this
committee in a bipartisan manner, despite any disruptions
thrown our way.
There is too much at stake for families back home for any
of us to throw up our hands. We also still have to wrap up our
fiscal year '25 bills, so I remain committed to working
together to complete that process as quickly as possible in a
manner consistent with the Senate's bipartisan bills, which we
have all put so much effort into.
So back to the subject at hand, we will have two panels of
witnesses today. First, Senators Ossoff and Tillis will speak
about the challenges their States are facing. Then we will hear
from top Federal officials at the Department of Transportation,
the Small Business Administration (SBA), the Department of
Agriculture (USDA), the Department of Housing and Urban
Development (HUD), and the Federal Emergency Management Agency
(FEMA).
We also recently received an updated Emergency Supplemental
Request from the White House, which offers a helpful road map,
but it is just the start. We know it will take time to fully
assess the needs of our communities impacted by the hurricanes,
and other natural disasters, and the resources required to
recover.
So, I hope we can take what we hear today and act swiftly
in a bipartisan way to provide relief. After all, there is a
long history of Members coming together quickly in the wake of
tragedy. Every one of us knows our States have needed help
after disasters before, and we will certainly need help again.
When disaster strikes, it should never matter who is in the
White House, who is in the majority, which governor is asking
for support, or how anyone voted in an election or on a last
bill.
As I have said before, you do not argue over whether to put
out a fire, you do not debate how much water to use, or how
many people to save. You roll up your sleeves, you get to work,
and you get help out the door, as much as needed, as fast as
possible.
Right now, there are a lot of people in our country needing
help, and yet this is one of the longest times in my memory
that we have gone without Congress providing disaster funding.
That is unacceptable. It is well past time we get aid out to
the many people in need after the many disasters we have faced
over the past 2 years.
We have seen devastating wildfires, including in my home
State of Washington, and the utter destruction in Maui. We have
seen a typhoon hit Guam last year, which is still in recovery.
We have seen historic flooding in Vermont and deadly tornadoes
in several of our States. There is the ongoing effort to
rebuild after the Key Bridge collapse in Baltimore, and of
course, the two hurricanes that recently tore through the South
with catastrophic effect.
It is clear that Hurricane Milton and Hurricane Helene were
devastating, but the full extent of the damage is still coming
into focus. And while we can see the road to recovery more
clearly, we can also see that it is long one, and it will take
serious Federal support.
There are still communities without power and clean
drinking water. There are miles and miles of roads and bridges
that are still washed away. Families are wondering how they
will be able to return home if their house is gone; farmers are
wondering how they can recover from the loss of crops and
poultry; and more business owners are wondering how they will
ever reopen their doors; and more than that, how their entire
city or community will rebuild, especially those communities
that thrived on tourism.
People are desperate for answers, and help, and hope, and
they are looking to Congress for action. We cannot let them
down, not now, not ever.
That is why it is so important we come together to pass a
bipartisan supplemental that meets these challenges. We need to
replenish FEMA's Disaster Relief Fund (DRF). Right now, the
backbone of our disaster response is running on fumes. We need
more funding for the Department of Transportation's Emergency
Relief Program. In 2013, when Washington State had a bridge
collapse, that program was critical to our recovery, and it is
critical now for rebuilding and reopening the Key Bridge, not
to mention the roads that were washed out by Helene.
We also need funding for HUD's Community Development Block
Grant Disaster Recovery Program, which will help families get a
roof back over their heads. Some communities have been waiting
nearly 2 years to know whether any disaster--HUD disaster
funding is coming their way. The needs are piling up, and the
longer we wait to rebuild housing, the more rents will stay
high for everyone in those communities, whether you lost your
home or not.
We also need funding at the Department of Agriculture to
support our farmers who lost a season's crop. And of course, we
must replenish the Small Business Administration's Disaster
Loan Program. SBA loans make it possible for renters, and
homeowners, and businesses to get started on things like
rebuilding, reopening, and mold remediation.
President Biden and Members on both sides of the aisle have
worked tirelessly to get people the help they need, and this
committee is going to do everything it can to make sure we
fulfill our obligations to get money out the door and get
support to our communities. But funds are exhausted, and the
SBA backlog is growing, over 60,000 applications already. I
really appreciate the work of Senator Tillis and Senator Warner
to craft a bipartisan bill on this. It was incredibly
frustrating to see their bill blocked by a Senator last week,
but we are not giving up. We need to get this done. We need to
get it done soon.
I want to underscore that delay is not harmless; it carries
its own cost, one that families and communities will be forced
to bear for years. Businesses shuttered, jobs lost, family
farms bankrupt, houses overtaken by water damage and mold,
communities unable to return and rebuild and reopen, families
forced to abandon the houses and communities they love because
they cannot afford to stay, not to mention people forced by
desperation and necessity to take out predatory and high-
interest loans. Every day we do not act, the costs grow.
And in one final point; in times of crisis, it is actively
harmful when political leaders spread disinformation and
mistruths about relief efforts. The blatant lies we saw
repeated this past fall, particularly in the aftermath of
Hurricane Helene, do nothing to help. It undercuts trust in
FEMA, and importantly, it discourages people from getting the
help they are, otherwise, eligible for.
I know and trust that Members of this committee, Republican
and Democrat, are committed to getting accurate information out
there to help as many people as possible. So, I urge everyone
to listen closely to this discussion today and let the weight
of the work ahead really sink in. I hope that after this
discussion, we will be able to work together in a quick
bipartisan way to draft and pass a supplemental that truly
meets the challenges our communities are facing. Thank you.
Senator Collins.
statement of vice chair susan m. collins
Vice Chair Collins. Thank you, Chair Murray. I want to
begin my remarks this morning by commending Chair Murray for
her bipartisan leadership and hard work during the past 2
years. This hearing is a great example of her approach, it
demonstrates her effective commitment to carefully reviewing
budget requests, and it was scheduled very quickly so that we
could meet the needs of our Nation. And really, exemplifies the
bipartisan leadership that she has demonstrated. And I look
forward to continuing to work closely with her in the next 2
years.
I want to thank our witnesses today, particularly Senators
Tillis and Ossoff, for being with us. Senator Tillis and I have
had--I have lost count of the number of conversations that we
have had about his State's needs following the recent horrific
flooding in Western North Carolina. And I look forward to both
senators sharing their perspective with our committee.
From the wildfires in the West, flooding in the Northeast,
drought throughout the Plains, and hurricanes in the South, it
seems that no region of the country has been spared from
destruction caused by severe weather. Last winter, Maine's
coast was hit with a pair of ferocious storms that wiped out
portions of our State's iconic working waterfront. I toured
storm-battered sites in Harpswell and Bailey Island last
January, and heard from many fishermen, lobster men and women,
that it was the worst storm damage they had ever experienced.
In fact, the State of Maine estimates that it took out about 50
percent of our fishing infrastructure in our State.
When disaster strikes, the American people should have
faith in Federal efforts to help them. That goes for everyone,
regardless of political beliefs. Like many of my colleagues, I
was angered by recent reports that a FEMA supervisor had
directed relief workers to avoid Florida hurricane victims'
homes that displayed Trump signs. This outrageous act stands in
stark contrast to the very purpose of disaster relief, and the
trust that we have placed in the Agency.
There needs to be an Inspector General investigation to
help ensure that all those responsible for playing politics
with vulnerable people's lives and homes are held accountable.
We must make sure that this discrimination and indifference to
suffering can never happen again.
Turning now to the nearly $100 billion request we received
earlier this week, unsurprisingly, the largest request is for
FEMA's Disaster Relief Fund. This fund provides the necessary
resources to assist communities, individuals, and families
affected by disasters all across our Nation. Every State in the
Nation has had a disaster declared in recent years and has
relied on FEMA for response and recovery, including several
Maine communities affected by last year's winter storms.
The Disaster Relief Fund, as the Chair noted, is rapidly
nearing exhaustion, with less than $5 billion in the fund
today. The current balance is partly due to the catastrophic
impact of Hurricanes Helene and Milton, which have already cost
more than $7 billion in immediate response funding, even before
recovery work has begun in earnest. We must replenish the fund
so that FEMA can continue to respond to disasters affecting any
of our States.
While FEMA takes the lead for immediate disaster response,
the Small Business Administration and the Departments of
Transportation and Housing and Urban Development work to
rebuild critical infrastructure, assist small businesses, and
help communities address long-term recovery challenges. Today,
we will also discuss the multiple disasters facing our farmers
and rural communities.
In addition to battling severe weather events, many farmers
are facing an economic crisis. Net farm income has dropped,
many commodity prices have significantly decreased, and there
has been a major increase in input and operational costs due to
inflation. I have heard from farmers in Maine who are
struggling to stay afloat. They are doing all that they can to
stay in operation, but many are being forced to cease
operating.
Maine alone has seen more than 600 farms shut down in the
past decade. Once we lose these farms, most often, they are
gone forever. We must ensure that our farmers in rural
communities have the resources needed to produce and protect
our Nation's food supply.
While this hearing is focused on the need for disaster
response funding, I would be remiss if I did not point out that
one of the best ways we can help our States and communities is
to pass the full-year appropriations bills.
This year, our committee came together and passed 11 of the
12 appropriations bills with strong bipartisan support. In
fact, six of the bills were reported unanimously. These bills
include the base funding needed to help communities address
critical development and infrastructure needs, support our
farmers, and protect our Nation.
Unfortunately, our committee-reported bills have languished
on the Senate's calendar because of the majority leaders'
decisions. I hope that we can reverse this approach in the next
few weeks, and we will work with Members on both sides of the
aisle to try to make that happen.
In the next Congress, we must redouble our efforts to
restore regular order, to promote transparency, get bills
enacted prior to the start of the fiscal year, and give all
Members a voice in the enactment of appropriations bills. I
look forward to our discussion today.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Chair Murray. Thank you, Vice Chair Collins.
I will now introduce our first panel of witnesses and move
to testimony.
Today, we are going to be hearing from our colleagues,
Senator Jon Ossoff from the great State of Georgia; Senator
Thom Tillis from the great State of North Carolina. Both of
their States are reeling from the recent hurricanes, and we
really appreciate both of you coming to share what you have
seen and heard on the ground about the challenges and the needs
that our families are facing.
So, we will begin with your testimony. And Senator Ossoff,
we will begin with you first.
STATEMENT OF HON. JON OSSOFF, U.S. SENATOR, GEORGIA
Senator Ossoff. Chair Murray, Vice Chair Collins, thank you
for this opportunity to brief the committee on the dire
conditions faced by Georgia farmers in the aftermath of
Hurricane Helene.
Georgia farmers and farmers in neighboring States are
suffering deeply, and Congress must proceed urgently to pass
disaster relief by the end of the year. Georgia agriculture was
devastated by this hurricane, and I respectfully urge this
committee to swiftly send the full Senate a disaster relief
bill that includes vital assistance for Georgia farmers, who
are in acute distress, and who are the backbone of Georgia's
rural communities and our State's economy.
Hurricane-force winds and torrential rains destroyed fall
crops still in the field, knocked down pecan orchards that
growers spent decades cultivating, and damaged a million and a
half acres of timberland--a million and a half acres of
timberland. In addition, to the agricultural devastation,
Georgia suffered severe damage to the power grid, to
businesses, housing, roads, and other critical infrastructure.
Virtually every crop and commodity produced in Georgia has
been seriously damaged, including poultry, cotton, timber, beef
cattle, blueberries, pecans, peanuts, tobacco, vegetables,
citrus, soybeans, nursery crops, and dairy. The Georgia Pecan
Growers Association reports that 48,000 acres of pecan orchards
were damaged, with a loss of nearly 400,000 trees.
Pecan growers, like Scott Hudson, a fifth-generation family
farmer whose family also runs a cleaning and processing plant,
faces a 60- to 70-percent crop loss and 20- to 30-percent tree
loss for their older trees, which will take 10 to 20 years to
replace.
Taylor and Arren Moses in Uvalda estimate that they have
lost 85 percent of their 800 acres of trees. They will not be
able to save a single tree from the first orchard they planted
in 2007. The Georgia Poultry Federation reports that 495
poultry houses took significant damage, including 295 that were
completely lost.
Vann Wooten, a county commissioner in Jeff Davis County who
has raised chickens for 31 years, saw all 10 of his chicken
houses destroyed, many with birds still inside. Without our
help, he is not sure now whether he will be able to return to
raising chickens.
The University of Georgia estimates that Georgia vegetable
producers lost 25 to 30 percent of the fall crop. T.J. Moore's
grandfather started farming in 1964. Now he, his brother, and
their parents grow green beans, eggplant, bell peppers,
cucumbers, and more, and due to the storm, they expect this
fall to sell less than 30 percent of their normal crop.
In Clinch County, blueberries make up 35 percent of the
loan portfolio at the local bank, and in some of State Senator
Russ Goodman's fields, a full quarter of the plants are broken
off and blown over, which will also hurt next year's crop.
I emphasize again, 1.5 million acres of Georgia timberland
have been damaged, and we are projected to have lost 500 to
600,000 bales of cotton, or nearly one-third of our cotton
crop.
Colleagues, the numbers are staggering, but this is not
about numbers; it is about families and rural communities. And
without our help, the simple fact is that many of these family
farms will fold, and they may fold soon. They are staring at
devastated farmland and orchards, they are deep in the red, and
they are under immense stress. If they go under, our rural
communities go under. The local tax base, funding schools, and
infrastructure is destroyed, and the rural way of life in
Georgia risks disappearing altogether.
We know what we need to do, and the fact that my colleague,
Senator Tillis, and I are here before you, a Democrat and a
Republican, urging speed to achieve this essential goal, I
hope, is testimony to the urgency of bipartisan action before
the end of the year. We must refuse the temptation to delay or
to get dragged into politics. We must swiftly pass disaster
assistance by the end of the year.
My constituents and Americans in every State hit by this
terrible storm, and hit by natural disasters for the last
several years, are counting on all of us.
And that is why I am so grateful again, Chair Murray, and
Vice Chair Collins, and Members of the committee, for the
privilege of appearing before you today. Thank you.
[The statement follows:]
Prepared Statement of Hon. Jon Ossoff
Thank you, Chair Murray and Vice Chair Collins, for the opportunity
to brief the Committee on the dire conditions facing Georgia farmers in
the aftermath of Hurricane Helene and the urgency of passing this
disaster supplemental before year's end.
Let me be clear: Georgia agriculture was devastated by this storm,
and I respectfully urge the Committee and the Congress to swiftly pass
agricultural disaster assistance for these farmers, who are the
backbone of Georgia's rural communities and our State's economy.
Georgia's farmers and rural communities are reeling and cannot afford
delay.
As you know, Hurricane Helene made landfall in Florida as a
Category 4 hurricane and swiftly entered Georgia, where hurricane-force
winds and torrential rains destroyed fall crops still in the field,
blew over row crops, knocked down pecan orchards growers spent decades
cultivating, and damaged hundreds of thousands of acres of timberland.
Agriculture in South Carolina, North Carolina, Kentucky, and Tennessee
also suffered severe damage from this storm, and I know my colleague
from North Carolina, Senator Tillis, will testify to the uniquely
horrific damage suffered by his constituents in North Carolina. In
addition to agricultural devastation, Georgia suffered severe damage to
the power grid, businesses, housing, roads, and other critical
infrastructure.
As we sit here today, Georgia growers are considering heart-
wrenching decisions about whether they will be able to sustain multi-
generation family farms, whether they will be able to continue
providing Georgia-grown produce to our Nation and the world.
I would respectfully remind the Committee that food security is a
national security issue, and the collapse of our family farming economy
would have a devastating impact not just on Georgia's rural communities
but on our entire Nation's capacity to sustain itself.
Moreover, the losses I have described are only those attributable
to Hurricane Helene and do not include Tropical Storm Debby, Hurricane
Idalia, and other natural disasters including the March 2023 freeze
that devastated Georgia's flagship peach crop.
The Office of Management and Budget has requested that Congress
appropriate substantial agricultural assistance as part of our broader
disaster supplemental, and on behalf of my constituents, I respectfully
urge the Committee to appropriate no less than the full amount
requested by OMB to help Georgia growers and support Georgia farmers
and the rural Georgia communities who rely upon agriculture every
single day.
Chair Murray. Thank you very much, Senator Ossoff.
Senator Tillis.
STATEMENT OF HON. THOM TILLIS, U.S. SENATOR, NORTH
CAROLINA
Senator Tillis. Chair Murray, Vice Chair Collins, friends
and colleagues on the Appropriations Committee. I got up this
morning to review the prepared statement by my staff. I am
convinced I could not get through it without shedding a tear,
so I am going to have it submitted for the record.
One hundred and two lives lost; 151 homes destroyed;
500,000 businesses affected in disaster-declared areas; 5,000
miles of road--this is North Carolina's statistics, ladies and
gentlemen--5,000 miles of road, including almost 5 miles of I-
40 damaged and impassable for likely a couple of years; 1,300
public bridges and culverts damaged; 163 water and sewer
systems damaged; 20,000 farms in disaster-declared counties
with $3.4 billion in damage. This is a storm unlike any we have
ever seen in our Nation's history in the inland, 250 miles
inland with nearly hurricane--category 1 hurricane-force, after
several days of drenching rain just a few days before. We have
a disaster-declared area. If you eliminate some that were
technically declared disasters, if you only count the landmass
that has devastation like you have seen in Asheville, or Boone,
or Burnsville, or Big Creek, or Canton, or Clyde, I have
thousands of people in harm's way.
So, I am--I went to the floor last week just to try and fix
one problem. But let me back up, as I see Senator Schatz here.
Back in August, Senator Schatz--I believe it was August--
Senator Schatz came to me and said: Thom, I hope you will
support me on the supplemental for Maui. I said: Count me in,
Brian, because I have no doubt that before the end of this
season, I will probably have to come to you and ask your
support, and I am expecting you will be there, as he always is,
as most of you already are; actually, as 99 of you were last
week to get the Small Business Administration plus-up of $800
million. I had one objection.
Now folks, I do not think that my folks in North Carolina,
Georgia, where both of my children were raised, and a sister
who had a house damaged by the storm, or Florida, where I was
born, they do not need tears; they need action. And we not only
need action in the way that we normally respond to storms, we
need action in a very different way. I am not talking about--I
lived in New Orleans--I was born in Florida, raised in New
Orleans, lived in virtually every southern State. I have seen
storms in my life. I saw Camille hit Mississippi on my way to
move to New Orleans. I have seen these storms, and
interestingly enough, the topology of the coastal plains, you
pretty much know what you need to get fixed, pretty soon, and
within 2 years, you can probably get most of the infrastructure
done. People are recovering their lives for decades, if ever.
But that is not what we have in North Carolina. We have
several river basins that flooded entire towns. Asheville just
got drinkable water 2 days ago. The storm hit 54 days ago, and
there are some communities that will not have it. I have got a
community near the Virginia line that may be without power
until March. The media has moved on, but the damage, it is
impossible to conceive. Even with what I am saying today
without being there. And I would invite any of you to come
here--or come there and see it.
So, I am going to submit my formal testimony for the
record, Chair and Vice Chair, but we have got to do something
differently.
Let me give you an example of what people in Florida, my
home State, are doing right now. They are being told by FEMA
that Milton--you know, they have got parts of Florida got hit
by Milton, parts of Florida got hit by Helene, parts of Florida
got hit by Debbie. Can you imagine a municipal official right
now who is being told: You have got to distinguish between that
utility pole that was debris with Debbie, and debris with
Milton, or debris with Helene?
Now, the good news is they are not having to distinguish
between telephone poles that happened between Milton and
Helene, but because Debbie was a little bit outside of the
window, you have got to distinguish that trash if you want to
get reimbursed. Is that really what we are going to tell the
States and local governments, that is how we do disaster
recovering? Am I really going to say that I have to get all of
my needs done in 6 months to be able to have FEMA recovery?
There are communities we will not get to in 6 months.
So, I thank you all for taking on the appropriations task.
I intend to put another unanimous consent request together and
maybe have another discussion with the junior Senator from
Kentucky, but I am going to fight for the people who were
affected, not only in North Carolina, but in many States where
I have family, friends, and have lived in.
We have got to act. We have got to look at paycheck
protection program; we have got to take a look at employee tax
credits--programs at work. We should be instructed by COVID to
recognize this is a long-term recovery unlike any we have ever
seen. We can either learn from it and start talking about
creative ways now, or we can regret it later when some of my
western cities are going to dry up.
That policy is separate from your appropriations task. I
thank you for the work that you are doing. I fully support the
OMB (Office of Management and Budget) request for $100 billion,
but that is only the beginning. We have got to react
differently to storms. This may be the first, but it will not
be the last, like we have seen in North Carolina, and we owe it
to the American people to be ready to do better. Thank you.
[The statement follows:]
Prepared Statement of Hon. Thom Tillis
Chair Murray, Vice Chair Collins, and Members of the Committee:
Thank you for the opportunity to testify this morning to be a voice for
the people of Western North Carolina.
My state was permanently changed on September 27, 2024. Hurricane
Helene brought more than 30 inches of rainfall in some areas,
unleashing floodwaters and landslides the likes of which we have never
seen. Many areas experienced hurricane-force winds with speeds over 100
mph, despite being more than 250 miles inland. I am saddened to report
to the Committee that this is the worst storm in my state's history.
We are now 54 days past Helene's initial impact. Many in the
mainstream media and outside world may have moved on and returned to
business as usual, but for my constituents in Western North Carolina:
life is now measured in the time before and after Hurricane Helene. As
we sit here today, tens of thousands of North Carolinians are still
struggling to even begin putting their lives back together.
I have heard countless stories of tragedy and resiliency from
people who have lost everything. I would like to share just one of
those stories with the Committee today:
Fairview is a small community of around 2,500 people outside of
Asheville. As Helene brought devastating wind and rain to Fairview,
firefighter Tony Garrison and his nephew, Brandon Ruppe, responded to a
rescue call for 11 people trapped by a mudslide. As they selflessly
answered the call of duty, flooding triggered a second landslide that
tragically claimed the lives of all 13 people. This is just one of
countless stories of devastation and sacrifice from communities all
across Western North Carolina that will never be the same.
The magnitude of Hurricane Helene's destruction to the people,
landscape, and communities of Western North Carolina is difficult to
quantify, but I will try my best:
--At least 102 lives were lost in North Carolina
--151,000 homes damaged
--500,000 small businesses in disaster-declared counties
--5,000 miles of roads, including 4.5 miles of I-40, damaged
--1,300+ public bridges and culverts damaged
--More than 80 miles of railroad destroyed
--163 water and sewer systems damaged
--400 hazardous waste facilities damaged
--20,000 farms in disaster-declared counties with $2.4 billion in
crop losses
--822,000 acres of damaged timberland
Western North Carolina is a place of unrivaled natural beauty. Many
of you have likely visited Great Smokies National Park, driven through
the Blue Ridge Parkway during the peak fall leaf season, or seen the
grandeur of the Biltmore Estate. Helene hit right at the start of
tourism season when businesses in Western North Carolina depend on
visitors to make ends meet each year. Local businesses typically make
enough money in October during peak fall leaf season to sustain them
until spring.
Now, after weathering the economic hardship of the pandemic and
rebuilding from Tropical Storm Fred in 2021, many businesses in the
region are on the brink of collapse. Without swift, comprehensive
economic relief from Congress, Western North Carolina runs the risk of
a second catastrophic storm--this time an economic one. These
businesses, like BearWaters Brewing in Canton, are the bedrock of
Western North Carolina's economy, and now they have been left holding
the bag for Congress to do its job since the Small Business
Administration ran out of money more than a month ago.
Similarly, the timing of Helene could not have been worse for the
many small family farms throughout the region. Due to the topography
and nature of agriculture in the region, only 5-10% of crop losses are
estimated to be insured. Even farmers with insurance and access to USDA
programs are struggling to get the resources they need. This comes on
the heels of an already tough growing season for farmers across North
Carolina, with 99 of our 100 counties having a federal disaster
declaration this year alone.
Earlier this month, I met with local leaders from each of the
impacted counties as well as stakeholders committed to Western North
Carolina's rebuilding. These local leaders shared challenges,
coordinated efforts, and advocated for much-needed resources to rebuild
their communities.
Like all attendees, I came away encouraged by Western North
Carolina's resiliency and further energized to advocate for their needs
here in Washington. The discussions that took place clearly identified
a number of immediate, intermediate, and long-term needs, including:
--Immediate Needs:
--Economic support for businesses and local governments facing
unprecedented revenue shortfalls.
--Direct housing assistance for the tens of thousands of displaced
residents.
--Repair and replacement of water and sewer systems
--Debris removal and disposal.
--Repair and replacement of the countless private roads and
bridges.
--Intermediate Needs:
--Statutory flexibilities and regulatory relief to ensure
continuity of government.
--Technical assistance and support to navigate federal disaster
programs.
--Repair and replacement of infrastructure and government
facilities.
--Extension of the deadline for State and Local Fiscal Recovery
Funds.
--Long-Term Needs
--Economic and workforce development assistance.
--Infrastructure investments to increase resiliency and redundancy.
--Housing repair and replacement.
--Mental health assistance for survivors.
Helene is by far the most significant natural disaster our state
has endured in my time as an elected leader. Many parts of Western
North Carolina will never be the same. The mountain folks of my state
have spent their entire lives working, paying taxes, and never asking
for anything from the federal government, but now it is time for their
government to step up and help these people in their time of greatest
need.
Thank you again for having this hearing and allowing me to be a
voice for Western North Carolina. I look forward to continuing to work
with the Members of this Committee to ensure that my constituents have
the resources they need to rebuild and plant the seeds of Western North
Carolina's long-term recovery.
Chair Murray. Thank you very much, Senator Tillis. Thank
you to both of you for being here today.
We will now have our second panel of witnesses come forward
and move to their testimony. And while they are coming forward,
let me introduce them.
We are joined today by Secretary of Transportation, Pete
Buttigieg; Small Business Administrator, Isabel Guzman; Deputy
Secretary of Agriculture, Xochitl Torres Small; Deputy
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, Adrianne Todman;
and FEMA Administrator, Deanne Criswell.
These agencies that are before us today are on the
frontlines of our Nation's disaster response efforts. We are
very grateful for all of you for joining to share your
perspective on the work and needs ahead. We will begin with
testimony from each of you and then move to our Senators for
questions.
Secretary Buttigieg, if you are ready, we will begin with
you.
STATEMENT OF HON. PETE BUTTIGIEG, SECRETARY, U.S.
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
Secretary Buttigieg. Good morning, and thank you, Chair
Murray, thank you, Vice Chair Collins, and thanks to all of the
Members of this committee for the opportunity to speak with you
today alongside my colleagues from the Biden-Harris
Administration.A month ago, I was in North Carolina and
Tennessee visiting some of the communities impacted by
Hurricane Helene. I saw entire lanes of I-40 demolished and
collapsed into the gorge below, washed out by heavy rainfall,
likely exacerbated by climate change. I spoke to families,
small business owners, and community leaders about how this
catastrophic storm impacted their lives and livelihoods, and
about what they need in the short term and for the long haul.
And I met with first responders who have been working
tirelessly to help the people in these communities as they
contend with the loss of homes, the loss of businesses, and the
loss of life.
In the weeks since, the Biden-Harris Administration has
continued to direct extensive, well-coordinated support to the
communities devastated by these storms. We are working
alongside State and local governments, nonprofit groups, and
volunteer organizations in the ongoing response and recovery
efforts.
We have been working to combat an increasingly common and
unequivocally harmful part of 21st-century life, the rapid
spread of falsehoods--that we have come to call misinformation
and disinformation--across digital media, which in this case
included the work of the Federal Aviation Administration, which
acts to facilitate response and recovery while keeping our
airspace safe.
As of today, the U.S. Department of Transportation (USDOT),
through our Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) Emergency
Relief, or ER, program, has delivered $187 million in funding
to communities in North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee,
and Virginia, as well as the Federal Land Management Agencies
in these States to support immediate needs. These funds are
being put to immediate use to get roads and bridges repaired
and reopened, and deal with disruptions in the meantime.
Already, we have seen how these funds are facilitating
recovery, helping open U.S. 276 near Caesars Head in Greenville
County, South Carolina, and continuing the ongoing work along
I-26 and I-40 between North Carolina and Tennessee to restore
access to those critical roadways.
As valuable as that work has been, the present reality is
that our Department will soon lack the funding to address
additional needs resulting from the recent hurricanes and other
prior disasters, as well as needs from future storms or other
disasters. And that is because the amount of FHWA Emergency
Relief funding being requested from numerous States far exceeds
the amount of money that is available.
Helene recovery alone will require extensive, ongoing
investment to permanently rebuild the roads and bridges
destroyed by the storm. Meanwhile, we continue to have unmet
needs for recovery in States like Alaska, Hawaii, Maryland, and
Nevada that qualify for FHWA funding to rebuild transportation
infrastructure after other recent disasters.
With each passing day, we are growing closer to a situation
where this Department will not be able to provide even partial
funding for eligible projects.
Consider communities in Arkansas, California, and Oklahoma
that have been impacted by floods, tornadoes, and wildfires, or
the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Maryland, or the Teton Pass in
Wyoming. We currently lack the funds to permanently rebuild the
infrastructure in these communities and many others across the
country, even though they are eligible.
President Biden has requested approximately $8.1 billion
for the ER program. These funds would cover the backlog of
projects waiting for funding, as well as the needs of States
from Hurricanes Helene and Milton.
I also want to note that in addition to funding for that
Federal Highway Administration program, President Biden has
also requested $57 million for the Federal Transit
Administration's Public Transportation Emergency Relief Program
to assist transit agencies that were impacted by, and supported
local response efforts during, Helene, Milton, and other
disasters.
There is an urgent need today for Congress to act to
provide supplemental funding to support communities across this
country grappling with disasters.
This would not be the first time Congress has risen to the
occasion. We saw it after Hurricanes Katrina, Rita, and Wilma
in 2005, and more recently in 2018 following Hurricanes Harvey,
Irma, and Maria. Now the American people--including the
communities in North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia,
Tennessee, Florida, and Georgia--are counting on Congress to
act.
As we gather today, we know that investing in resilient
infrastructure upfront can save lives and reduce the cost of
rebuilding. That is why USDOT prioritizes resilient
infrastructure in its discretionary grant programs--and through
the PROTECT (Promoting Resilient Operations for Transformative,
Efficient, and Cost-saving Transportation) program created
through the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, we are deploying the
first-ever formula and discretionary funds dedicated to making
our infrastructure more resilient.
We are seeing the reality of climate change in real time.
Weather events that were previously deemed once-in-a-century
are coming along every few years. It is not a fluke; it is not
a coincidence; and most importantly, it is not going to go
away. We need adequate and sustained funding to make sure our
communities have what they need to rebuild roads and bridges,
to make them more resilient in the face of extreme weather and
other disasters, and to help people return to normal life as
quickly as possible.
With your partnership, I know we can deliver the critical
support that is needed right now for our transportation
infrastructure, for farmers and ranchers dealing with crop
loss, and for families and small business owners who need to
rebuild their homes, and schools, and storefronts, and lives.
Thank you for welcoming me here today, and I look forward
to working alongside you as we help these communities recover
and build back stronger and more resilient for the future.
[The statement follows:]
Prepared Statement of Hon. Pete Buttigieg
Chair Murray, Vice Chairman Collins, and members of the committee--
thank you for this opportunity to speak with you today alongside my
colleagues in the Biden-Harris Administration.
A month ago, I was in North Carolina and Tennessee visiting
communities impacted by Hurricane Helene. I saw entire lanes of I-40
demolished and collapsed into the gorge below, washed out by heavy
rainfall made stronger and more destructive by climate change. I spoke
to families, small business owners, and community leaders about how
this catastrophic storm has impacted their lives and livelihoods and
what they need--in the short term and for the long haul. And I met with
the first responders who have been working tirelessly to help the
people in these communities as they contend with the loss of homes, the
loss of businesses, and the loss of life.
In the weeks since Hurricanes Helene and Milton, the Biden-Harris
Administration has continued to direct extensive, well-coordinated
support to the communities devastated by these storms. We're working
alongside state and local governments, non-profit groups, and volunteer
organizations in the ongoing response and recovery efforts. We've also
been working to combat an increasingly common and unequivocally harmful
part of life in the 21st century: the rapid spread of misinformation
and disinformation across social media--which in this case included the
work the Federal Aviation Administration does to facilitate response
and recovery while keeping our airspace safe and secure.
As of today, the US Department of Transportation (USDOT)--through
the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) Emergency Relief Program--has
delivered $187 million in funding to communities in North Carolina,
South Carolina, Tennessee, and Virginia, as well the Federal Land
Management Agencies in these states to support immediate needs.
These funds are being put to immediate use to get roads and bridges
repaired and reopened, and deal with disruptions in the meantime.
Already, we've seen how these funds are facilitating recovery efforts:
helping reopen US 276 near Caesars Head in Greenville County, South
Carolina, and continuing the ongoing work along I-26 and I-40 between
North Carolina and Tennessee to restore access to these critical roads.
As valuable as this work is, the present reality is that our
Department will soon lack the funding to address additional needs
resulting from the recent hurricanes and other prior disasters, as well
as needs from future storms or other disasters. That's because the
amount of FHWA emergency relief funding being requested from numerous
states far exceeds the amount of money that is available.
Hurricane Helene recovery alone will require extensive, ongoing
investment to permanently rebuild the roads and bridges that were
destroyed by the storm. Meanwhile, we continue to have unmet need for
recovery in states like Alaska, Hawaii, Maryland, and Nevada that
qualify for FHWA funding to rebuild transportation infrastructure after
other recent disasters. With each passing day, we're growing closer to
a situation where this Department will not be able to provide even
partial funding to eligible projects in the future.
Consider communities in Arkansas, California, and Oklahoma that
have been impacted by floods, tornadoes, and wildfires, or the Francis
Scott Key Bridge in Maryland, or the Teton Pass in Wyoming. We
currently lack the funds to permanently rebuild the infrastructure in
these communities and many others across the country, even though they
are eligible.
President Biden requested approximately $8.1 billion for the FHWA's
Emergency Relief Program. These funds would cover the backlog of
projects waiting for funding as well as the needs of states from Helene
and Milton. I would also like to note that in addition to funding for
the FHWA program, President Biden has also requested $57 million for
the Federal Transit Administration's (FTA) Public Transportation
Emergency Relief Program to assist transit agencies that were impacted
by, and supported local response efforts during, Helene, Milton, and
other disasters.
Today there is an urgent need for Congress to act to provide
supplemental funding to support communities across this country that
are grappling with disasters.
This would not be the first time Congress has risen to the occasion
to provide additional and necessary funding to support Americans
impacted by disasters. We saw it, for instance, after Hurricanes
Katrina, Rita, and Wilma in 2005 and more recently in 2018 following
Hurricanes Harvey, Irma, Maria. Now the American people--including the
communities in North Carolina and South Carolina, in Virginia and
Tennessee, in Florida and Georgia that are still reeling from the
hurricanes--need you to act.
As we gather today to discuss the federal response after a
catastrophic weather event, we also know that investing in resilient
infrastructure up front can save lives and reduce the cost of
rebuilding. That is why USDOT prioritizes resilient infrastructure in
all its discretionary grant programs--and through the PROTECT program,
created through the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, we are deploying the
first ever formula and discretionary funds dedicated to making our
infrastructure more resilient.
We're seeing the reality of climate change in real time. Weather
events that were previously deemed ``once in a century'' are coming
along every few years. This is not a fluke or coincidence, and most
importantly, this is not going to go away. We need adequate and
sustained funding to make sure our communities have what they need to
rebuild roads and bridges . . . to make them more resilient in the face
of extreme weather and other disasters . . . and to help people return
to normal life as quickly as possible.
With your partnership, I know we can deliver the critical support
that's needed right now: for our transportation infrastructure . . .
for farmers and ranchers dealing with crop losses . . . and for
families and small business owners who need to rebuild their homes, and
schools, and storefronts.
Thank you for welcoming me here today. I look forward to working
alongside you as we help these communities recover--and build back
stronger and more resilient for the future.
Chair Murray. Thank you very much.
Administrator Guzman.
STATEMENT OF HON. ISABEL GUZMAN, ADMINISTRATOR, U.S.
SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION
Ms. Guzman. Thank you so much, Chair Murray, Vice Chair
Collins, and the distinguished Members of the committee. Thank
you for the invitation to appear today to discuss the SBA's
disaster loan program and the pressing need for additional
funding.
For decades, SBA disaster loans have been proven to be an
important resource to help communities impacted by disaster to
recover and rebuild. SBA offers direct loans to homeowners,
renters, businesses, and private nonprofits to help communities
get back on their feet.
These affordable loans cover disaster losses not fully
covered by insurance or other sources and provide much-needed
flexibility with low-interest, long terms, and 1 year of
deferred payments and no interest accrual.
Harvard University research shows that early access to
disaster funding makes a difference in communities receiving
aid--and those communities receiving more SBA funding are more
likely to experience sustained growth versus lagging. In
coordination with FEMA, other Federal agencies, and State and
local entities, SBA helps small businesses prepare for, respond
to, recover from, and mitigate against disasters.
In fiscal year 2024 alone, SBA approved over 27,000
disaster loans totaling $1.7 billion, and 160 disaster
declarations across the 53 States and territories. Behind each
loan is a story of a resilient American seeking to rebuild and
recover. In Asheville, North Carolina, I met with the Biltmore
Village restaurant owners whose business remains closed while
they repaired physical damage after devastating flooding from
Hurricane Helene. In Tampa, Florida, I met with the owners of a
popular local restaurant who weathered Hurricane Milton but
lost power and inventory and were closed for several days.
Everywhere I met homeowners dismayed to find out they lacked
coverage for floods, and seeking to rebuild, clean up, and stay
in their communities.
SBA has a vital role to play in the Federal disaster
response, but the Agency's disaster loan program has been
unable to meet demand since October 15th. After a surge in
demand for disaster loans following Helene and Milton, SBA
exhausted all available subsidy funding for disaster lending.
Hours after the President issued disaster declarations for
Helene and Milton, SBA staff were on the ground ready to help
survivors. SBA has been working around the clock to provide up-
to-date, timely information to constituents and minimize the
confusion and delays. SBA has also continued to process these
loan applications, provide customer service support, and
communicate directly with survivors while we wait for Congress
to appropriate the funding to originate new loans and disperse
those funds to the more than 12,500 disaster victims who are
already in the queue.
SBA is currently supporting more than 400 total disaster
declarations across the Nation and managing a portfolio of 2.5
million loans valued at $285 billion. We have over 3,500
employees who have been deployed supporting loan operations and
field operations. On the ground, we have deployed hundreds of
staff across 18 different States to operate more than 175
disaster centers for face-to-face support.
However, a lack of SBA disaster funding has impacted
recovery across the Nation. SBA helps those uninsured or
underinsured disaster survivors, as I said, who cannot access
credit elsewhere. Homeowners, renters, and businesses are
either delaying action or resorting to higher costs of capital.
This means there are challenges and delays in rebuilding
neighborhoods and reopening small businesses. Homeowners have
been unable to access low-interest rate loans to remove debris
or eradicate mold so they can return to their homes.
Survivors who lost a car cannot purchase a new one to take
their children to school or get themselves to work. Small
businesses cannot replace damaged equipment, or inventory, or
cover economic injury from business disruption. Our disaster-
impacted communities need access to SBA loans, and we hope
Congress will work quickly to restore funding for this
important program. SBA strongly supports the Administration's
supplemental budget request for SBA's $2.24 billion in funding
for SBA's disaster loan program. The Administration's request
updates the SBA's disaster loan request the Administration has
been making since the Maui wildfires in 2023.
The new $2.24 billion includes vital funding to support
disaster lending as well as the administrative funds the Agency
needs to process these loans, review for fraud, service,
collect, and support disaster survivors on the ground.
This funding will allow SBA to immediately begin making
approximately $900 million in loan offers to those more than
12,500 approved borrowers waiting in the queue since funds were
exhausted. SBA will also continue to process the nearly 48,000
pending loan applications and continue to support new
applicants as they continue to come in the door.
SBA expects that lending for Hurricanes Helene and Milton
will reach significant disaster levels given the widespread
damage across multiple States, including in areas not
identified as flood zones where lack of insurance was
widespread. We have worked closely with the House and Senate
Appropriations Committees to provide timely updates about the
disaster lending account ever since our 2023 supplemental
request, in addition to publishing the statutorily required
monthly reports.
But the series of mega storms such as Helene and Milton
show how quickly disaster balances can change. Americans do not
know where the next disaster will occur, but helping our fellow
citizens recover from disaster is a responsibility we all
share. SBA looks forward to working with you to secure those
resources necessary to fortify SBA's critical disaster lending
program into the future.
And I look forward to your questions.
[The statement follows:]
Prepared Statement of Hon. Isabel Guzman
Chair Murray, Vice Chair Collins, and distinguished members of the
Committee, thank you for the invitation to appear today to discuss the
pressing need for additional funding for the Disaster Loan Program at
the U.S. Small Business Administration.
For decades, SBA disaster loans have been a proven and important
resource to help communities impacted by disaster rebuild and recover.
SBA offers direct loans to homeowners, renters, businesses, and private
nonprofits to help communities get back on their feet. These affordable
loans cover disaster losses not fully covered by insurance or other
sources, and provide much-needed flexibility with low interest, long
terms and one year of deferred payments and no interest accrual.
Harvard University research shows that early access to disaster
funding--including SBA's disaster loans--boost the economic impact by
20 percent.\1\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ Bounce Back Better: Four Keys to Disaster Resilience in U.S.
Communities The Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In coordination with the Federal Emergency Management Agency
(FEMA), other Federal agencies, and state and local entities, SBA helps
small businesses prepare for, respond to, recover from, and mitigate
against disasters. In FY 2024 alone, SBA approved over 27,000 disaster
loans totaling $1.7 billion in 160 disaster declarations across 53
states and territories.
Behind each loan is a story of a resilient American seeking to
rebuild and recover. In Asheville, North Carolina, I met with Biltmore
Village business owners whose businesses remain closed while they
repair physical damage after devasting flooding from Hurricane Helene.
In Tampa, Florida, I met with the business owners of a flan restaurant
who weathered Hurricane Milton, lost power and inventory, but were able
to reopen days later, and became known as ``hurricane heroes'' in their
city--a testament to the impact that small business owners have in
rebuilding their communities and making them economically resilient.
SBA has a vital role to play in the federal disaster response, but
the Agency's disaster loan program has been unable to meet demand since
October 15, 2024, after a surge in demand for disaster loans following
Hurricanes Helene and Milton led SBA to exhaust all available subsidy
funding for disaster lending.
Hours after the President issued disaster declarations for
Hurricanes Helene and Milton, SBA staff were on the ground ready to
help survivors. SBA has been working around the clock to provide up-to-
date, timely information to constituents and minimize confusion and
delays. Even in the absence of funding to make loans, SBA has continued
to process loan applications, provide customer service support, and
communicate directly with survivors while we wait for Congress to
appropriate the funding necessary to enable the agency to originate new
disaster loans and disburse funds to the many disaster victims in the
queue. SBA is currently supporting more than 400 total disaster
declarations across the Nation. We have deployed 430 SBA staff across
18 different states in 24 disaster declarations. Our team is operating
more than 175 disaster assistance centers.
A lack of SBA disaster loans has impacted recovery across the
Nation. Homeowners have been unable to access low-interest rate loans
to remove debris or eradicate mold so they can return to their homes.
Survivors who lost a car cannot purchase a new one to take their
children to school or get themselves to work. Small businesses cannot
replace damaged equipment or inventory, or cover economic injury from
business disruption.
SBA is the lender of last resort for many disaster borrowers who
cannot access credit elsewhere. Homeowners, renters, and businesses are
either delaying action or resorting to higher costs of capital. This
means reconstruction projects may have been placed on hold, or small
businesses may delay reopening without SBA disaster loans to expedite
recovery. Without SBA disaster lending, survivors may be forced to seek
higher-cost options in the private sector--if they can secure funding
at all.
Our communities need access to SBA loans and we hope Congress will
work quickly to restore funding for this important program. SBA
strongly supports the Administration's supplemental budget request for
$2.25 billion for the Disaster Loan Program. The Administration's
request updates the disaster loan requests the Administration has been
making since the Maui wildfires in 2023. The $2.25 billion includes
vital funding to support disaster lending as well as the administrative
funds the Agency needs to process these loans and provide customer
service to disaster survivors.
This funding will allow SBA to immediately begin making
approximately $900 million in loan offers to more than 12,000 approved
borrowers in the queue since funds were exhausted. SBA is continuing to
process over 60,000 loan applications while we work with Congress on
long-term funding to shore up SBA's disaster lending account.
SBA expects that lending for Hurricanes Helene and Milton could
approach record levels given the widespread damage across multiple
states--including in areas not identified as flood zones where lack of
insurance is widespread. In those storms alone, SBA estimates more than
$3 billion in lending activity.
We have worked closely with the House and Senate Appropriations
Committees to provide timely updates about the disaster lending account
in addition to publishing monthly reports as required by law, but a
series of mega-storms such as Helene and Milton show how quickly
disaster balances can change.
Americans do not know where the next disaster will occur, but
helping our fellow citizens recover from disaster is a responsibility
we all share. SBA looks forward to working with Congress to secure the
resources necessary to strengthen SBA's critical disaster lending
program for the future.
I look forward to your questions.
Chair Murray. Thank you.
Deputy Secretary Torres Small.
STATEMENT OF HON. XOCHITL TORRES SMALL, DEPUTY
SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
Ms. Torres Small. Thank you, Chair Murray; thank you, Vice
Chair Collins; and thank you, esteemed Members of the
Appropriations Committee for convening this crucial discussion
on how we show up for the American people in the wake of
disaster.
I ask that you refer to my written testimony for a more
complete account of the devastation that farmers, workers, and
rural communities have experienced in recent months, and the
work USDA has done, so far, to help them recover.
Every time I visit a disaster site, I am struck by how
close we all are to experiencing homelessness, going bankrupt,
or relying on a food bank for nourishment. Disasters hit
everyone in their path, and no one deserves the punishment of a
storm or a fire. Those impacts might include losing your home,
losing your business, and if you are a farmer, losing the
chance to pass your farm on for future generations.
And that is why people work together. In the government
across political lines, agencies, and levels to clear trees, to
deliver water and food, and to rebuild roads. We all agree that
disaster recovery is an essential role of the government. I
think we can also all agree that government can be cumbersome.
There are kinks in the system, and I want to talk about those
kinks because they slow down the resources that individual
families and whole communities need so desperately. Timeliness,
flexibility, and fairness must be the north stars of disaster
assistance.
For USDA, that comes down to doing all we can to keep
farmers farming and support people in rural communities as they
rebuild. So, I hope we can spend some time talking about
operations, how we get resources out the door most quickly, and
delivered to those who most need them, recognizing that the
smallest operators in our food supply chain are essential to
that chain and are also often the most at risk of going out of
business after a disaster.
When government delivers resources in a way that is both
timely and fair, we are able to be there for families, for
businesses, and for communities in their time of need. We are
able to build an economic bridge for farmers and producers so
they can continue to feed us all.
Whenever I think about the storms of 2024, I think about a
family-owned and operated pecan farm that I visited in South
Carolina this October. Hurricane Helene had destroyed about 75
percent of this farmer's crop, and about half of his trees will
never produce again. His sons had just invested in a processing
facility to support their harvest and the harvests of their
neighbors. The facility was going to cut transportation costs
and add value to the whole community of farmers, but now there
is not enough nuts to process.
What struck me most about their story is that while they
were waiting out the storm and worrying about the impact on
their own future, the farmer's sons put on their rain jackets
and went into the storm because they were also members of the
Volunteer Fire Department. They were first responders. They
were making sure, before anything else, that their neighbors
did not lose their lives.
That is how crucial community is to disaster response, and
USDA wants to be part of that community. USDA is part of those
communities. And disaster recovery and assistance work is work
that we are deeply honored to do. In agriculture, you cannot
plan for every possible impact, so getting money quickly out to
those pecan farmers and to growers and producers like them is
our solemn responsibility. Let us work on that together.
Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
[The statement follows:]
Prepared Statement of Hon. Xochitl Torres Small
Thank you, Chair Murray, Vice Chair Collins, and Members of the
Committee for the opportunity to come before you today to provide an
update on the impact of disasters on American farms, ranches, private
and public forest lands, and rural communities, and the work the U.S.
Department of Agriculture (USDA) and the Biden-Harris Administration
are doing to support producers, families, farmworkers, and businesses.
In the aftermath of the devastation wrought by Hurricanes Helene
and Milton, I want to share with you USDA's observations and findings
regarding the destruction experienced by agricultural producers and
rural communities affected by these disasters, and to emphasize that
the Department seeks to partner with you to support those affected by
these and other recent natural disasters.
As has been widely reported, farmers, ranchers, and private forest
landowners across a wide swath of the southeastern United States have
suffered catastrophic losses--both of the commodities they produce and
of the physical infrastructure and equipment that they rely on to
produce their crops and run their operations, and for some their homes
as well. To add insult to injury, many of these producers had just
completed, or were preparing to complete, the fall harvest of their
commodities as the storms hit. Now, instead of seeing the anticipated
revenue from the sale of those commodities, producers are confronting
ruined fields, downed trees, and a litany of other impacts that will
make for an exceedingly arduous recovery. I must also mention, that in
addition to the recent hurricanes that hit the Southeast, many these
same communities and other regions throughout the country have been
struggling with intense and often historic drought conditions this
year. Many farmers they have been hit with both disasters
simultaneously. Generational family farms, ranches, and forest
landowners are facing unthinkable decisions, and I am here today to
share those challenges.
USDA's response in the Southeast has been robust, with staff
working around the clock to support producers and rural communities. It
is important to note the sacrifices USDA employees have made as they
rose to meet this challenge. One quarter of the Farm Production and
Conservation (FPAC) mission area employees are located in counties
across the Southeast, and despite facing power outages and significant
impacts to their own operations, continued to show up each day to stay
on the job and serve producers. Rural Development employees immediately
showed up in their service areas to support rural communities as they
began to make plans to rebuild. Our United States Forest Service (USFS)
employees across the country uprooted their lives to deploy to the
region for weeks or months at a time to provide support to the Federal
Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) and provide capacity for emergency
response work. All of this work continues despite damage to their own
homes, farms, and workstations. I want to take a moment to thank these
employees for their service, dedication to mission, and invaluable
contributions to supporting American agriculture during an especially
hard time.
I also want to acknowledge that while we are here today to discuss
the immediate impacts of the hurricanes, this has been a difficult
wildfire year and communities across the country are working to rebuild
after facing their own devastating disasters.
Impact on Agriculture, Rural Communities, and Emergency Food Support
In my own travels, and those of Secretary Vilsack, USDA Under
Secretaries, and Administrators to the affected areas, we have
witnessed firsthand the magnitude of the destruction left behind by
Hurricane Helene and Hurricane Milton. During my visits in South
Carolina and Georgia in October, I saw the devastating impact the
storms had on communities. I witnessed damaged pecan trees--many that
will never produce a crop again, productive farmland ravaged by winds
at shocking speeds, and farm infrastructure and buildings in need of
massive repairs. We also had a chance to hear from farmers who are just
beginning to come to terms with the long road to recovery ahead of
them, including laborious requirements for assistance such as rejection
letters to comply with credit elsewhere restrictions, which would be
alleviated with our legislative proposal to remove the credit elsewhere
test for Emergency Farm Loans. Additional concerns included debt for
new processing infrastructure for crops that will now take years to re-
establish.
Recently, Secretary Vilsack visited Asheville, North Carolina and
had the chance to speak with a broad group of producers and community
leaders impacted by the flooding. They each had a different experience
and road to recovery, from a dairy farm that was essentially wiped out
and as a result decided to sell all their cows because all of their
infrastructure was completely gone, to an ornamental nursery that had
been under 40 feet of water, to specialty crop producers dealing with
the loss of soil, and Christmas tree producers dealing with
infrastructure and farmworker challenges. We have also heard from
farmworkers now suddenly out of work who may not be able to put food on
their families' table. Not to mention the local electric cooperative
and water processors worried about needed repairs and the technical
assistance required for the recovery.
While in Asheville, Secretary Vilsack also spoke with volunteers
and staff at the MANNA Food Bank, a member of the Feeding America
network. After their primary location was destroyed by flooding, they
quickly pivoted and stood up a new operation at a temporary warehouse.
Despite the unfortunate circumstances, disasters always impress on
me just how resilient communities are. In Augusta, Georgia, I visited
Golden Harvest Food Bank where I heard from a roundtable of
stakeholders who forfeited sleep and comfort to serve neighbors who had
lost their homes overnight. Only at the end of the conversation did I
learn that one of the participants had also lost his own home in the
hurricane. He spent his time advocating for other unhoused individuals
who needed ready-to-eat meals. At MANNA, Secretary Vilsack met a
volunteer who had just reached the 4,000 hours volunteering mark.
Others shared with him that ``MANNA was never just about a building,''
and emphasized that though the road to recovery is long, their
commitment is steadfast. We know that in an emergency situation, access
to safe and healthy food is critical. I appreciate the investment this
Committee continues to make in the Emergency Food Assistance Program
(TEFAP) so that USDA can support food banks like MANNA and Golden
Harvest in times of need.
USDA leaders have been in Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North
Carolina, Tennessee, and Virginia in the last month to meet with
impacted producers and community leaders, assess the extent of damage,
and gain an understanding of where gaps in existing USDA and other
federal programs and authorities may need to be filled.
USDA Disaster Assistance
As the People's Department, the USDA's work spans across every
community and landscape throughout our nation. We provide safety nets
for farmers, champion renewable energy, and support firefighters who
keep our communities safe. In times of disaster, USDA plays a crucial
role in supporting farmers, ranchers, and rural communities, giving
them the resources they need to persevere, rebuild, and regain their
livelihoods. In the past, Congress has responded on a bipartisan basis
to support the communities facing devastating crises by providing
additional resources to USDA programs. We urge Congress to work
together to quickly provide funding for needed relief to farmers,
ranchers, private forest landowners, and rural communities.
Our partnership with FEMA allows us to get critical response and
recovery resources to areas that need them the most. We at USDA had
more than 8,000 USDA federal employees on the ground, coordinating a
full-scale federal response to support hurricane recovery efforts.
Among them, over 260 responders were actively engaged in clearing
debris, removing downed trees, search and rescue efforts, and providing
critical support across North Carolina, Tennessee, and Georgia. Farm
Service Agency (FSA) employees immediately began to start registers for
programs that would open applications within several weeks, and since
those applications opened, staff in unaffected parts of each state have
been assisting in working through the interested persons to begin
Emergency Conservation Program (ECP) and Emergency Forest Restoration
Program (EFRP) applications. Our Natural Resources Conservation Service
(NRCS) employees have already visited dozens of potential sites for the
Emergency Watershed Program. These teams collaborated closely with
FEMA, performing daily assessments and logistical coordination.
In the days and weeks following these devastating storms, USDA
wasted no time in responding to these disasters with all the available
tools at our disposal. Immediately, the agencies across the department
implemented various flexibilities to get producers the help they need
as quickly as possible.
Farm Service Agency
For farmers and ranchers facing the devastation of disasters like
severe storms, wildfires, droughts, and floods, the FSA serves as their
frontline resource. Our local FSA offices provide tailored support and
access to recovery programs, including crop insurance support and
emergency farm loans offering crucial financial aid to cover operating
expenses, livestock purchases and essential supplies. FSA has also made
use of the Administrator's Physical Loss Notice to make certain
impacted counties are eligible for emergency loans.
FSA runs several standing disaster programs, such as the Livestock
Indemnity Program (LIP) which compensates livestock owners impacted by
natural disasters. In hurricane-affected states, FSA extended the date
for submission of the LIP notice of loss, and applications, for payment
until early 2025 for 2024 losses. While standing disaster programs are
a foundational component of assisting farmers and ranchers after
disasters, additional assistance in the amount of $21 billion can
ensure that farmers and ranchers are better positioned to recover from
catastrophe.
To expedite assistance through the ECP and EFRP, FSA extended the
sign up for the for states affected by Hurricanes Helene and Milton;
and waived the requirement for prior approval for practices involving
surface debris removal, fence restoration, hazard tree removal and non-
ground disturbing activities, and waived onsite inspection requirements
for non-engineering practices. Current ECP funds will not allow full
recovery, and we estimate an additional $617 million is needed and an
additional $366 million for EFRP.
In the wake of Hurricanes Helene and Milton, FSA is surging
additional staff, temporarily, to local and state offices to address
the increased demand for disaster assistance programs and the number of
concurrent disasters is placing significant stress on FSA staffing.
Over the longer term, FSA needs resources to establish a group of
trained and dedicated staff that can be deployed to disaster areas as
needed.
Risk Management Agency
The Risk Management Agency (RMA) is another essential partner in
disaster resilience. RMA works with Approved Insurance Providers
(AIPs), helping farmers file claims and access crop insurance coverage
when weather impacts their crops. In times of disaster, this insurance
is a lifeline, safeguarding farmers' investments and future harvests.
Following disasters in 2023, total indemnities paid out were $17.5
billion. While we don't yet have total claims processed for 2024, in
the days following the hurricanes, our team at RMA provided
flexibilities known as emergency procedures to streamline the loss
adjustment process for pecan trees, to expedite claims, and allow AIPs
to waive premium interest up to 60 days for those with spring crops
such as apples, corn, cotton, and peanuts. And the agency moved swiftly
to approve counties for the Hurricane Insurance Protection--Wind Index
(HIP-WI) endorsement and the Tropical Storm endorsement, within days of
the storm. To get payments to producers as quickly as possible, RMA
utilized NOAA's Climate Prediction Center data, International Best
Track Archive for Climate Stewardship (IBTrACS) data, and data from the
National Hurricane Center to publish the initial triggers for Hurricane
Helene.
Recently, I announced additional USDA assistance for producers
impacted by Hurricane Helene under our Hurricane Insurance Protection--
Wind Index (HIP-WI) program. As a result, Approved Insurance Providers
(AIPs) have already began issuing payments for over $233 million in
indemnities for hurricane-related losses across Alabama, Florida,
Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Virginia, and an
additional $143 million for Florida producers impacted by Hurricane
Milton. These payments will directly help farmers and rural communities
recover. In total, $937 million has been paid to producers who suffered
losses from hurricanes or tropical storms in 2024. Nearly $800 million
of that has been paid through HIP-WI, greatly speeding the payments of
indemnities to producers. We will see the total amount surpass $1
billion as underlying HIP-WI insurance policies are adjusted and
indemnities are paid.
Natural Resources Conservation Service
Our NRCS mission and work extends support beyond immediate relief,
focusing on long-term environmental resilience. Through programs like
the Environmental Quality Incentives Program (EQIP) and the Emergency
Watershed Protection Program, NRCS provides both technical and
financial assistance to protect soil and water quality, repair damaged
infrastructure, and restore habitats impacted by disasters. Our team at
NRCS worked quickly to provide support for poultry and livestock
producers in affected areas through EQIP. Due to the urgent need to
dispose of poultry and livestock quickly to mitigate environmental and
disease impacts, NRCS has used the flexibility of an early-start waiver
for producers once an initial application is submitted to expedite
recovery efforts. With respect to the Emergency Watershed Protection
(EWP) Program, NRCS works with local sponsors--typically county or
municipal governments--to address the recovery of streams, rivers,
floodplains and other areas damaged by flooding, erosion and other
severe impacts. While we are devoting all currently available EWP
resources to this effort, we expect needs will far exceed our funding
and have requested an additional $1.08 billion for EWP. Because these
projects require local input and matching funds, they can take
substantial time to complete but have proven very effective in
preventing future damage from floods. Earlier this week, we provided a
cost-share waiver for EWP requests we've received in North Carolina,
South Carolina, Virginia, Tennessee and Georgia for Hurricane Helene.
It is also worth noting two additional watershed programs that NRCS
oversees, the Watershed Protection and Flood Prevention Operations
(WFPO) Program and the Watershed Rehabilitation Program (REHAB), which
we are thankful Congress has provided important investments in recent
years. Both programs are critical in the long and short run as we hear
from communities that want to pursue these locally led projects to
protect and restore watersheds and to rehabilitate aging dams that are
reaching the end of their design life and/or no longer meet federal or
state safety criteria or performance standards.
Rural Development
For our rural communities hit by recent natural disasters, USDA's
Rural Development (RD) programs provide significant aid for housing
repairs, community facilities, water systems, and more. By engaging
with rural water system officials, we help secure funding and resources
to restore safe drinking water, leveraging Rural Utilities Service
(RUS) grants to support FEMA projects. RD also collaborates closely
with rural water system officials to connect them with funding and
resources for water system restoration, utilizing RUS grant funding for
FEMA repair projects. Within our limited budgetary constraints, RD is
able to support communities to repair and rebuild essential water
infrastructure through the Emergency Community Water Assistance Grants
(ECWAG). Our Business Programs within RD also offer financial support
to rural businesses impacted by storms, extending existing grants, and
working with local intermediaries to assess disaster impacts and adjust
funding strategies for immediate and sustained support. We also know
that many of these affected areas, like those in Rural Partners Network
communities, would benefit from technical assistance and capacity
building needed to apply for federal funding, and continue to work to
provide support for them.
In response to recent disasters, RD moved swiftly to use existing
programs to support affected communities to address pressing needs,
including housing assistance for tenants and homeowners, restoring
water infrastructure, and helping rural businesses stabilize and
prepare for the future. By activating these finite resources quickly,
RD ensures that even the most remote communities have a clear pathway
to recovery. However, while USDA has been able to act quickly, our
response success could be improved if funding were made available in
the Rural Disaster Assistance Fund, which provides the maximum
flexibilities for RD programs to respond accordingly to natural
disasters such as hurricanes and floods. While RD is responding to the
needs of these hurting communities, the fact remains that in order for
our broad array of RD programs to fully respond to these and other
recent disasters, it will require additional $375 million funding to be
provided for these critical programs, including the Rural Development
Disaster Assistance Fund and $10 million for community facilities to
assist these communities to full recovery.
Food and Nutrition Service
The Food and Nutrition Service (FNS) ensures food reaches those who
need it most. FNS has collaborated with each affected state and Tribe
as well as local voluntary organization partners on disaster response
and recovery efforts. FNS has provided a range of flexibilities
allowing states to replace lost benefits for SNAP participants, provide
meals to children when schools are closed, offer food packages in
devastated areas, and deliver emergency food aid through the Disaster
Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (D-SNAP) to households in all
six affected states who suffered losses from disasters. States also
provide USDA food supplies for emergency shelters and impacted families
through The Emergency Food Assistance Program (TEFAP).
This has been an all of USDA effort, but even with this level of
responsiveness, more needs to be done to address the needs on the
ground of farmers, workers, and people living in these affected
communities.
Other USDA Agencies
USDA agencies across the Department are also deeply engaged in
recovery efforts. The USDA's National Institute of Food and Agriculture
(NIFA) has been actively engaging in recovery by providing essential
technical assistance and disaster education. The Forest Service, in
addition to having teams on the ground clearing roads and removing
debris, is working with our local partners to assess the damage, remove
hazards, and make forests safe and accessible once again. Food safety,
of course, remains a priority, with the Food Safety Inspection Service
offering guidelines to those in Hurricane's path and areas hit by
flooding and power outages.
Through partnerships with local and regional organizations, we are
improving outreach, removing barriers in our assistance programs, and
finding new, innovative ways to deliver support where it is needed
most. This work is complex and demands a lot of time and effort, but
USDA's team is committed to helping every producer and community
navigate their recovery.
Looking Forward
USDA and the Biden-Harris Administration are executing on a
comprehensive, across-the-department and Administration response to
help agricultural producers, forest landowners, families, and rural
communities in the short and long term, using every option available to
respond to these hurricanes.
In disasters, our job is to be there for everyone, and to do all we
can to keep this from being the straw that breaks the back of
operations doing all they can to hold on. The ``get big or get out''
model of agriculture encouraged large farms to expand and consolidate,
often pushing many small and mid-sized operations out of the market.
Disasters exacerbate this trend. We have lost 155.6 million farming
acres and nearly 545,000 farms since 1981--a reality that is only
compounded by the increasing frequency of extreme weather events. It is
essential that our producers, no matter how small and what they
produce, have an equitable opportunity to secure resources they need to
rebuild and move forward.
Due to the level of devastation resulting not only from Hurricanes
Helene and Milton, but also from historic droughts, flooding, and
wildfires over the past several years, USDA needs additional tools and
flexibilities to comprehensively address the challenges being
experienced across the country. Without these additional tools,
agricultural producers and forest landowners who are already dealing
with incredible hardships will face even more uncertainty and it will
become even more likely that additional crop and livestock producers
are forced out of the industry. As you consider these tools and
resources, I urge you to consider policies that will support the many
and the most so that we can keep folks in production. Thank you for
your attention to the important issues outlined here today. USDA looks
forward to working with Congress to support American agriculture and
rural communities.
Chair Murray. Thank you.
Deputy Secretary Todman.
STATEMENT OF HON. ADRIANNE TODMAN, DEPUTY SECRETARY,
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN
DEVELOPMENT
Ms. Todman. Good morning, Chairperson Murray, Vice Chair
Collins, and Members of this august group.
It is important for HUD to be here at the table because
without the $12 billion that we have requested through the
President, simply said, the homes of thousands upon thousands
of Americans will never be rebuilt, and their communities will
have a housing shortage the likes of which they have never seen
before.
Since I joined the Department in 2021, I have traveled to
communities after a disaster to talk with people and to gauge
the work ahead. In Asheville, in the wake of Hurricane Helene,
I met with local leaders, hurricane survivors, and small
business owners to learn about what they needed. Similarly, I
went to Lee County, Florida, after Hurricane Ian, and saw the
damage there and heard from the people.
I visited Maui after the wildfires; Mayfield, Kentucky,
after the tornadoes, and time and time again, I heard the same
thing: How much they needed their national partners to help
them recover. And I am confident that through the concerted,
unified Federal efforts, we will mitigate the damage done to
communities and rebuild with resiliency.
With Congress' support, HUD has provided disaster recovery
funds to not only drive the long-term recovery of communities,
but also to make sure that those communities are better
prepared for when the next disaster strikes. We do this by
ensuring that rebuilding standards address the hazards that
these communities are likely to face in the future and by
providing necessary funds to these communities to make them
safer--make their future safer as well.
These funds can be spent making homes and other buildings,
like hospitals and schools, stronger, and implementing
community-wide mitigation projects, and engaging the people in
building out what those plans need to be.
For instance, in Lockport, Louisiana, $7 million of
disaster recovery funds were used to build a new apartment
building that could withstand very high winds. And that
building was 90 percent complete when Hurricane Ida hit in
August of 2021. It was practically unscathed by the storm, was
soon completed, and was the only rental units available for
some time after that event. In Lincoln City, Oregon, HUD
disaster recovery funds supported the construction of a 44-unit
apartment complex that housed wildfire survivors.
In Moore, Oklahoma, after a tornado devastated the Royal
Park Mobile Home Community, disaster recovery funds were used
to build back 220 homes to help not just the folks who were
survivors of the tornado, but other community members as well.
That is the work that these funds do, and it is so important
for this Congress to act with urgency. We must do better. We
have a moral obligation to protect people. It takes 4 years,
today, it takes 4 years from the point of an event for there to
be housing substantially built after a disaster. That is far,
far too long.
That is why in addition to having the $12 billion available
to HUD to help people rebuild, we also need our Disaster
Recovery Program to be codified and authorized so that it is
there for Americans over and over again, so that we can plan
shortly after an event. That local leaders and State leaders
can plan as they are in response mode what those long-term
recovery needs must be.
You know, it feels like it was just yesterday, Senators,
that I had to, on behalf of my family, pull together a care
package of batteries, clothing, and toiletries because their
home had been severely damaged. It would have been great to
share with them that there is a program there ready to make
sure that their home could be rebuilt and their neighbor's home
as well.
When I was in Asheville not too long ago, I met a Mr.
Wilson who had a business, and he came up to me. He was a
little nervous; he had a little piece of paper in his pocket.
He opened it up. And I do not know how he did the research, but
he did. Mr. Wilson said: You know, Ms. Todman, we need help. I
need your disaster recovery funds not just for my family and my
home, but for my business and to bring my employees back.
So, let me say, Mr. Wilson, if you are watching this one
day: I am here for you, we are here for you, and for every
other person who has been impacted by these disasters so you
can help rebuild your communities.
Thank you, Senators. That concludes my testimony.
[The statement follows:]
Prepared Statement of Hon. Adrianne Todman
Chairwoman Murray, Vice Chair Collins, and Members of the Senate
Appropriations Committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify
today to discuss disaster recovery alongside my colleagues.
In the last month, the Biden-Harris Administration has provided
robust and well-coordinated federal support for the ongoing response
and recovery efforts. During my recent visit to Asheville, North
Carolina, I met with local leaders, hurricane survivors, and small
business owners and heard firsthand how Hurricane Helene impacted the
community and what the most pressing needs were for them. Similarly, I
visited Fort Myers, Florida after Hurricane Ian. I saw the damage there
and heard from the people what they needed from their federal
government. I visited Maui after the wildfires and Mayfield, Kentucky
after the tornadoes. Time and again, I heard the same message: we
cannot fully and truly recover without our national partners.
Americans have witnessed an unprecedented rise in the frequency and
intensity of natural disasters in more recent years--whether it be
wildfires across the West, tornadoes ravaging entire communities,
floods in every corner of the country, and severe storms such as
Hurricanes Helene and Milton that left trails of destruction across the
Southeast and Appalachia. When these disasters occur, the federal
family shows up to meet the needs of businesses, communities, and
individual households impacted by disasters.
When the country faced previous natural disasters, including
Hurricanes Katrina and Sandy, Congress responded on a bipartisan basis
to support the communities facing devastating crises. Just as Congress
acted then, it is our sworn duty now to deliver the necessary resources
to ensure that everyone in communities reeling from Hurricanes Helene
and Milton--and those still recovering from previous disasters--have
the Federal resources they need and deserve.
The last time Congress passed a comprehensive disaster package was
in December 2022 as part of the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2023.
The Administration urges Congress to act with all appropriate speed to
provide more funding for communities to rebuild housing infrastructure,
to support farmers and ranchers with crop losses, to address impacted
schools, and to repair damaged highways. Our current request includes
approximately $12 billion for the Community Development Block Grant--
Disaster Recovery (CDBG-DR) program to address disaster relief, long-
term recovery, restoration of housing and infrastructure, economic
revitalization and mitigation in the most impacted and distressed areas
resulting from major disasters occurring in 2023 and 2024, including
Hurricanes Helene and Milton and related storms.
HUD's CDBG-DR Program offers flexible support for state, local,
tribal, or territorial governments to address unmet recovery needs that
remain after insurance and other Federal agency disaster assistance. It
provides mitigation assistance as well to reduce losses from future
disasters. With the support of CDBG-DR program funds, communities
across America can build the foundation for recovery from extreme
weather events by:
--Building back homes with resilience so homeowners and renters can
return quickly and with the confidence that their homes are
more protected from the next storm;
--Supporting local businesses to rebuild facilities, increasing
workforce training opportunities for residents to access
quality jobs and drive local economies;
--Rebuilding essential community buildings such as schools,
hospitals, and fire stations; and
--Enhancing the resilience of housing-related infrastructure, by
focusing on renewable energy sources, efficient water and sewer
systems, and other mitigation measures to reduce future
disaster risks.
For more than 30 years, Congress has appropriated supplemental
emergency funding for the CDBG-DR on an ad hoc basis. Permanent
authorization of CDBG-DR would improve the transparency and
predictability of CDBG-DR funds made available to impacted communities.
Under current practice, on average, funding is delayed for two years
after the disaster. The lack of permanent authorization of the CDBG-DR
Program requires HUD to establish new requirements via Federal Register
notice for each supplemental appropriation, which slows down the
recovery. Permanent authorization of CDBG-DR would allow HUD to
promulgate rules that establish the standard requirements for all CDBG-
DR grants going forward. This would remove the risks of tracking
multiple Federal Register notices, which can create complexity and
challenges for grantees, especially for those with lower capacity.
HUD has sought and received feedback from the public via two
requests for information (RFIs) to help inform permanent authorization.
Further, HUD OIG has noted in its reports that permanently authorizing
the CDBG-DR Program would improve the transparency and predictability
of CDBG-DR funds for impacted communities. Permanent authorization of
CDBG-DR that is consistent with the guiding principles included in the
2025 President's Budget would allow HUD to better fulfill its mission
to build strong, sustainable, inclusive communities.
Chairman Murray, Vice Chair Collins, and distinguished Members of
the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you
today to discuss CDBG-DR program in the context of the broader disaster
response efforts. We must stand with these communities through their
long road of recovery.
I look forward to working with you on the disaster supplemental
request for and permanent authorization of the CDBG-DR Program.
Chair Murray. Thank you.
Administrator Criswell.
STATEMENT OF HON. DEANNE CRISWELL, ADMINISTRATOR,
FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY
Ms. Criswell. Thank you. And good morning, Chairman Murray,
Vice Chair Collins, and esteemed Members of the committee,
thank you for the opportunity to testify today regarding FEMA's
supplemental funding request and the Disaster Relief Fund.
I would like to begin by expressing my deepest gratitude to
the dedicated leaders joining me at this table and to the
broader network of government agencies, the private sector,
nonprofits, and others who partner with FEMA every day.
Together, we work tirelessly to protect and assist Americans
during disasters. Emergency management is built on this
collaboration, and it is their partnership that is essential to
the daily efforts of FEMA's workforce.
Before continuing, I would like to address the recent issue
about the FEMA employee who had given instructions to her
disaster survivor assistance team that were completely at odds
with FEMA's mission. When my senior leadership team informed me
of the situation and provided me with the visual evidence that
this employee had issued instructions for her team to avoid
homes with a specific political affiliation, my leadership team
recommended, and I directed that we immediately terminate this
employee. And we did.
In the statement I released the same day of this employee's
termination, I repeated to all FEMA employees and the American
people that this type of behavior and action will not be
tolerated at FEMA. We hold all employees accountable if they
violate our standards of conduct.
When a disaster strikes, it is collaboration that enables
us to respond swiftly and effectively. This spirit of
partnership has been especially crucial during the responses to
Hurricanes Helene and Milton, where FEMA has mobilized over
10,000 personnel and collaborated with more than 30 Federal
agencies to ensure critical services and life-sustaining
resources reach the hardest hit communities.
For example, through collaboration with our partners, FEMA
mobilized 24 urban search and rescue teams, that included 1,500
personnel, 110 canines, and 90 Swiftwater rescue resources to
conduct rescue efforts. We also prepositioned 9 million meals,
10 million liters of water, over 300 generators, and worked
closely with the Department of Health and Human Services to
deploy medical capabilities, including healthcare site
assessment teams and health and medical task forces. These
efforts represent the true spirit of FEMA's mission to serve
and protect every community.
However, we now face significant challenges due to
increased disaster demands. FEMA did receive $20.2 billion in
the continuing resolution, yet the DRF has been depleted to
less than $5 billion as of today due to the rising operational
needs. This shortfall underscores an urgent reality: The DRF
needs sufficient funding to handle the scale and intensity of
today's disasters, particularly as we face the aftermath of not
only Hurricanes Helene and Milton, but also the Maui wildfires
and other emergencies.
We have over 100 open major disasters and millions of
citizens relying on FEMA support, and our work remains vital to
communities in the ongoing recovery process. The surge in
demand following recent hurricanes has been unprecedented. In
just 1 month, we saw over 2.4 million households register for
assistance, breaking records set during previous catastrophic
storms.
FEMA has already provided more than $7.8 billion in Federal
assistance for Hurricanes Helene and Milton, and this amount
includes $3 billion for individual assistance, and $1.7 billion
for public assistance. But these needs have rapidly exhausted
our available funds, and without a supplemental, our ability to
respond to new disasters could be jeopardized.
Earlier this year, FEMA recognized we would need to take
steps to manage the limited resources by implementing Immediate
Needs Funding, or INF. This process allowed us to focus on
preserving necessary funding for essential, life-saving, and
life-sustaining activities but required us to pause over $8.8
billion in funding for critical recovery projects across the
country. This pause impacted communities across the country,
delaying repairs to vital infrastructure and leaving long-
lasting effects on communities' capabilities to build back
better and stronger.
And as the balance of the DRF decreases, we are again
assessing whether or not we need to reinitiate immediate needs
funding. Our resource needs, however, extend beyond the DRF.
Programs like the National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP) are
under tremendous strain, with nearly 74,000 claims filed
following Hurricanes Helene and Milton, amounting to $843
million.
I join the President and urge legislative action to
stabilize the NFIP. FEMA faces increased debt and rising
interest costs, which threaten the fund's long-term viability.
It is very clear that the stakes are high as our communities
face more frequent and devastating disasters, they increasingly
rely on FEMA and our Federal partners. This is why I strongly
encourage Congress to fund all agency requests, as they also
support FEMA's work of helping communities recover.
For instance, cuts to Housing and Urban Development's
Housing Assistance programs can leave survivors without access
to housing and increase sheltering costs, while reducing
funding for Small Business Administration disaster loans limits
our businesses' ability to rebuild. Such shortfalls not only
strain FEMA by increasing its workload but also create
coordination challenges among Federal agencies, resulting in
gaps and inefficiencies in disaster response.
Additionally, limited funding for mitigation efforts
reduces long-term resilience in affected areas, leaving them
more vulnerable to future disasters and intensifying FEMA's
burden in subsequent events. The Administration's supplemental
request is about ensuring that FEMA, along with our Federal
partners, can meet the demands and provide the assistance
needed.
Thank you again for the opportunity to testify. And I
welcome your questions.
[The statement follows:]
Prepared Statement of Hon. Deanne Criswell
Chairwoman Murray, Ranking Member Collins, and Members of the
Committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today to
discuss FEMA's Disaster Relief Fund (DRF) and our supplemental funding
request. At the outset, I would like to thank other leaders joining me
here today for their partnership in helping people before, during, and
after disasters. Collaboration is the lifeblood of emergency
management, and your role is vital in the work the FEMA workforce does
each and every day to respond to communities across this nation who are
recovering after a major disaster strikes. In response to Hurricanes
Helene and Milton, FEMA deployed more than 10,000 FEMA personnel across
the impacted states and used its authorities to mission assign more
than 30 federal agencies to execute various response and recovery
operations, including search and rescue; commodity distribution,
including water, meals, and generators; and power, water, and
communications restoration.
For example, in order to facilitate the delivery of food and water
to isolated homes and communities, the Department of Defense quickly
mobilized, and more than 1,500 active-duty troops delivered over 10.5
million pounds of commodities, 3.4 million liters of water, and over
30,000 meals. Getting these life sustaining supplies into the hands of
survivors in isolated communities became known as the Points of
Distribution (PODs). The National Guard, along with other Department of
Defense vehicles, delivered commodities to isolated communities
identified by the state, including right to the doorsteps of many
survivors. The delivery of these critical resources supplied by FEMA,
the state, voluntary partners, and other federal agencies to the
individuals who needed them most in a timely manner is one example of
how the federal family worked together to support survivors after these
devastating storms. FEMA fully leveraged its authorities and funding to
coordinate a truly whole of community effort by partnering with both
our federal partners as well as non-profits and private organizations.
The Biden Administration requested $22.4 billion for FEMA's DRF in
its budget request for Fiscal Year (FY) 2025, which was the maximum
allowable under the Disaster Cap Adjustment. FEMA carried forward $1.9
billion for the DRF into FY 2025, and the Continuing Resolution (CR)
provided another $20.3 billion, bringing the available balance of the
DRF to $22.2 billion on October 1, 2024. As of November 14, 2024, the
DRF balance is $5.4 billion, which falls short of providing sufficient
funding resources the agency needs in FY 2025 to provide the continued
lifesaving, life-sustaining resources our citizens deserve. I fully
support the Administration's supplemental request of $39 billion for
the DRF as well as the funding requested for our federal partners who
are critical to the long-term recovery from Hurricanes Helene and
Milton.
FEMA continues to support over 100 open major disasters, many of
which were declared in 2024. The agency's capacity to assist
communities recovering from disasters like Hurricanes Helene and
Milton, and other future emergencies, hinges on securing sufficient,
flexible funding to meet the escalating challenges of emergency
management. For FEMA to continue aiding communities across the nation
who are either recovering most recently from Hurricanes Helene and
Milton, the Maui wildfire that devastated most of the small town of
Lahaina, or another disaster, FEMA's DRF requires supplemental funds.
Whether it is a flood, hurricane, or wildfire, the DRF is integral
to FEMA's ability to meet its mission. Despite $16 billion in
supplemental appropriations, early in FY 2024 the agency recognized the
DRF would likely not have sufficient funding to support current ongoing
disaster response and recovery operations in addition to new disasters,
and we quickly began advocating for additional supplemental funds.
While we wait for those funds, we continue to closely manage the daily
DRF balance and work to recover excess funding where there were
opportunities to do so to ensure funding is available to handle the
most urgent disaster operations.
In early August, for the 10th time in its history and due to the
increasing need to manage the impacts of an unprecedented hurricane
season, FEMA implemented Immediate Needs Funding (INF) for the DRF to
ensure the agency could prioritize life-saving and life- sustaining
needs of disaster survivors and respond to any potential new
catastrophic event. Under INF, all DRF-funded programs not essential
for lifesaving and life-sustaining activities were paused. Those
activities included new obligations for permanent repair and
replacement work, as well as the DRF-funded Hazard Mitigation Grant
Program projects and Building Resilient Infrastructure and Communities
projects.
By the end of FY 2024, FEMA had paused obligation of over $8.8
billion for approximately 3,000 projects across the country due to INF.
FEMA having to pause billions of dollars in funding is felt across many
communities, both large and small. From money to repair roads in
Kentucky following a devastating severe storm in 2022, to more than 170
projects in Louisiana including an energy substation damaged during
Hurricane Laura in 2021, and over $20 million in funding for projects
in Vermont damaged by compounding and increasing flooding events across
the state, INF interrupts recovery and can have profound, long-term
effects on our communities as they rebuild. With receipt of $20.3
billion on October 1st from the FY 2025 CR, FEMA immediately lifted INF
and obligated over $8.8 billion previously paused. At the same time and
through October, FEMA obligated over $7.6 billion for Hurricanes Helene
and Milton, and nearly $2 billion for other disasters, dropping the DRF
balance to $4.8 billion as of November 18, 2024.
Communities affected by Hurricanes Helene and Milton require FEMA's
ongoing, uninterrupted support during their recovery phase. As charged
by law, FEMA is committed to standing by these communities as well as
those impacted by other disasters throughout their recovery process. In
meeting that charge, however, FEMA is once again rapidly exhausting the
DRF.
Within the first 30 days, the needs for Hurricane Helene alone have
outpaced all catastrophic storms over the last 20 years except for
Hurricanes Katrina (2005) and Maria (2017). Over 2.2 million people
registered for Individual Assistance in the month of October,
surpassing the previous record from 2017 after Hurricanes Harvey, Irma,
and Maria. Within the first 30 days, FEMA approved over $1.4 billion,
which includes $883 million in assistance for individuals and families
affected and over $524 million for debris removal and activities to
save lives, protect public health and safety, and prevent damage to
public and private property.
FEMA continues to closely monitor the balances in the DRF to
determine whether it will be necessary to institute INF again before
the end of this calendar year to ensure the agency is ready and
prepared to address lifesaving and life-sustaining needs and the
possibility of another future catastrophic event. Congress must act and
appropriate additional funding for the DRF through a supplemental so
FEMA can continue providing technical and financial assistance to
repair housing, rebuild public infrastructure like schools, utilities,
roads and bridges; and for hazard mitigation projects that will assist
communities in the Southeast and across the nation to build back better
and more resilient to sustain the impacts of future disasters.
Other federal agencies also heavily rely on mission assignment
funding from FEMA to execute their missions under the Stafford Act, and
most of them do not have dedicated funding mechanisms in place for
Stafford Act missions and would need to shift funding to meet these
response and recovery requirements. During the most recent INF, FEMA
was still able to issue all necessary mission assignments to meet
operational requirements and requests from impacted states. Any further
reduction in DRF funding may impact certain federal agencies' abilities
to meet necessary Stafford Act requirements if their only option is to
pay out of their own appropriation.
In addition to the DRF, there are other FEMA accounts and programs
that are facing critical funding levels, such as the National Flood
Insurance Fund (NFIF). I am requesting Congress to take legislative
action to sustain the National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP) because
of the high number of claims filed due to catastrophic flooding caused
by Hurricanes Helene and Milton and the need for the program to support
claims from previous disasters. As of November 6, 2024, NFIP
policyholders impacted by Hurricanes Helene and Milton have filed over
74,000 claims, and FEMA has paid approximately $843 million in claims
due to losses from these two hurricanes alone. The NFIP is already
$20.50 billion in debt. If Congress doesn't respond to cover these
costs, which could be as high as $10.5 billion, the NFIP would be
forced to incur additional debt, causing the NFIP annual interest
obligation to grow 70 percent from the current level of $619 million to
$1.3 billion. FEMA encourages Congress to cancel some or all of the
NFIP's debt to cover the costs of Helene and Milton, and to ensure a
viable program moving forward.
Federal interagency coordination is essential to support whole
community recovery post-disaster. FEMA accomplishes long-term
community-based recovery by funding and coordinating recovery
activities that are carried out by federal partner agencies that have
the appropriate subject matter expertise or relevant disaster recovery
programs. As such, FEMA's mission to support disaster response and
recovery can be severely affected by budget shortfalls faced by other
federal agencies.
For instance, cuts to HUD's housing assistance programs can leave
survivors without access to housing and increasing demands on FEMA
sheltering and housing programs. FEMA and HUD often struggle to assist
families who lived in HUD housing before a disaster by transitioning
them from FEMA temporary housing programs back to HUD housing in a
disaster's wake. In addition, FEMA's Direct Housing program has come to
routinely rely on HUD's CDBG-DR grant program as a mechanism to secure
permanent housing solutions for disaster-affected communities. As HUD
lacks the operational funding to properly support CDBG-DR grantees as
they implement CDBG-DR grants, many families wind up residing in FEMA
direct housing for far longer than intended.
Budget shortfalls to federal partner Recovery programs like SBA
disaster loan funds may also result in survivors staying in FEMA Direct
Housing longer as they may not have resources needed to return to a
permanent housing solution. Reduced funding for SBA disaster loans
limits businesses' ability to rebuild, resulting and gaps and
inefficiencies in disaster recovery efforts.
It is clear from recent events that our communities and citizens
continue to rely more on FEMA than ever before. FEMA's DRF supplemental
request will provide the necessary resources for us to meet our
mission.
Thank you for the opportunity to testify, and I look forward to
your questions.
Chair Murray. Thank you very much. We will now begin a
round a 5-minute question period for our witnesses, and I ask
all of our colleagues to please keep track of the clock and try
to stay within those 5 minutes.
Let me begin. We have heard from all of you, your
testimony, and the testimony as well of our colleagues, on how
bad the conditions are on the ground. I want to start by asking
about the impacts if Congress were to continue to delay in
providing this disaster funding.
And Secretary Buttigieg, I want to start with you. DOT has
provided $187 million in quick release for States hit by
Hurricane Helene to address some of the urgent repairs and
ensure the safety of the traveling public. That was a critical,
immediate step, and it is left, now I understand the Department
has less than $120 million remaining for that emergency relief
program. If we fail to act quickly, what happens if another
hurricane or winter storm hits?
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, in short, we would be unable to
say yes, either in full or in part, to those quick release
requests. We work to turn those around in a matter of hours,
when possible, and we have been able to say yes to 100 percent
of those quick release requests. I will also note that that
figure, $119.6 million, is not just for quick release but the
program balance. So in addition to those very quick answers,
twice a year we do the allocations for the overall fund,
whether that is for recent disasters or ones going back a few
years, where a community is still in recovery, those, too,
would be impacted because it is all the same funding. And so
very quickly, we would be simply unable to support any of these
disasters.
Chair Murray. Thank you. And Administrator Guzman, in 2024
and 2025, SBA received over 280,000 applications from disaster
survivors. That number, I understand, is expected to increase
in the coming weeks, and meanwhile, the SBA Disaster Loan
Program has been unable to originate new loans for more than 35
days, and 60,000 renters, homeowners, and businesses remain
stuck in the backlog now. Talk to us about the impact of this
lapse on disaster survivors, and explain why we need to provide
that funding now.
Ms. Guzman. SBA provides that support for those who do not
have insurance or are underinsured. In addition, these are
people who do not have credit elsewhere, and so these
constituents are faced with higher costs of capital, or no
capital access at all, to be able to rebuild their lives. And
so, with delays, this further impacts them. As I said, I have
nearly $1 billion in loan applications sitting there waiting to
deploy as soon as I get funding, plus the additional 48,000
applications that we are still processing; $30 million a day is
what we approved. So the longer this sustains, the longer these
constituents will not be able to access the program. And I
would say that, for the businesses, it is not just the
businesses; it is the homeowners, the renters, 70 percent of
our funding goes to homeowners and renters to get back in their
neighborhoods.
Chair Murray. Right. Once we do replenish this account, how
long will it take for that money to hit bank accounts once we
act?
Ms. Guzman. We would switch back our systems from the
technology perspective, and hope to get those awards within 24
to 48 hours. However, these are loans. We would need to
continue through the process and finalize those loans to
disperse dollars within as fast as 24 hours to up to 2 to 4
weeks.
Chair Murray. Okay. Thank you very much.
Administrator Criswell, the Disaster Relief Fund, as we all
know, plays a really major role in helping our communities
respond to these disasters. We provided access to over $20
billion in the DRF during the CR period, and the
Administration's latest request includes another $40 billion.
Can you explain how the disaster programs of other agencies
impact overall response and recovery efforts and how these
potential funding shortfalls for other disaster programs
actually affect FEMA's work?
Ms. Criswell. These disaster programs really work as a
holistic way to help communities recover from disasters. While
our programs support specific areas like individual assistance,
we can give homeowners who are underinsured or uninsured some
funding. Our programs are not designed to replace insurance or
make them whole, and that is where these other programs from
USDA, SBA, and CDBG-DR really come into play to have a holistic
approach to community recovery.
And without the supplemental disaster funding for all of
these agencies, it will slow down recovery in these communities
and really make it more difficult for the individuals,
homeowners, renters, small businesses, and the community in
general--to be able to move along quickly in their recovery
process.
Chair Murray. Thank you. And let me just address this
spread of misinformation and disinformation, just quickly, what
is the real-world harm if we see this misinformation and
disinformation in the communities?
Ms. Criswell. You know, one of the things that we have to
do is make sure people have faith in their government and that
they know that the programs that they are providing them are
going to be there to help them. And when we spread information
that is inaccurate about what we are going to do or how we
administer our programs, it creates fear, and people do not
want to apply for assistance. And these are people that have
lost everything, and we need them to be able to have confidence
that when they apply for assistance, they are going to get what
they need, what they deserve, and what they are eligible for.
Chair Murray. Well, thank you, and I know in the past we
have seen administrations attempt to withhold disaster funding
from States and communities that were affected by some of these
devastating disasters. I do think I speak for every Member of
this committee when I say the spread of disinformation, and any
efforts by anyone to withhold funds Congress has appropriated
for the purpose of assisting communities in their time of need,
will not be tolerated, whether it comes in the form of a
frontline worker or the highest levels of government.
Senator Collins.
Vice Chair Collins. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Secretary Todman, the funds that HUD provides the CDBG
disaster funds, are awarded to States, to entitlement
communities, and to Tribes. However, if you look at disasters,
they rarely align with those categories, and that raises a lot
of concerns for smaller communities who are not going to have
control over the funding. Usually, it is going to go through
the State, for example.
How does HUD's administration of the CDBG-DR funds take
into account the challenges of these smaller communities and
prevent them from getting delayed--to encountering delays as
they wait for the State to funnel the money to them?
Ms. Todman. Thank you, Senator. You know, we recognize that
that was an issue during this Administration, and it is one of
the reasons why, in addition to giving funding to States, we
also look to give funding to some of our grantees, our pre-
existing grantees, at the local level.
I think one of the things that we are challenged with is,
for some of those really small communities, they have never
done business with HUD before. They have never had to deal with
my Department, so we want to make sure that they are able to
execute and have the capacity.
That being said, we do rely on our State partners to do the
right thing and get that funding to where it needs to be. So I
do look forward to working with you, and this committee, and
your team on better ways that we can execute on that.
Vice Chair Collins. Thank you. Secretary Buttigieg, the
Administration's request includes more than $8 billion for
disaster assistance through your Department. The vast majority,
as you have explained, would be used to help clear the growing
backlog of unmet needs within the Federal Highway
Administration's Emergency Relief Program, and that backlog
includes costs incurred, such as, $100 million for typhoon
damage in Alaska, to more than $10 million for four severe
storm and flooding events in my State, and $7 million of
Maine's unmet need is from damage that occurred over a span of
just a few weeks in December of 2023 and January of this year.
The December storm left 400,000 Mainers without power. This is
in a State of only 1.3 million people, and it essentially left
the Western Town of Farmington completely flooded and isolated
for a time.
Could you give us a better sense of how the $8 billion was
calculated? I know you looked at the backlog, but is there also
funding for current, more recent storms, and upcoming
inevitable storms?
Secretary Buttigieg. So, the figure was calculated based on
the known backlog. In other words, if we only contemplated
those costs that we estimate are already eligible, the $8.1
billion would cover all of that. It does not speak to future
disasters which, in principle, would be covered through the
regular appropriations into this account. Although I would note
that level is set at $100 million, and it is not unusual for
the account to disperse more than a billion in a single year,
which is why we have often come to Congress for more funding.
In terms of the breakdown, $4.4 billion is for cost
estimates for Hurricanes Helene and Milton. Another $1.69
billion is for the Francis Scott Key bridge replacement. I
should note that is net of $350 million, which was removed from
that figure because that is going to be recovered via
insurance, and any other recoveries that could happen would
also reimburse the program and reduce the total. And then the
rest is the Emergency Relief backlog, $2.3 billion, covering
disasters in dozens of States, including several in Maine, as
you just mentioned.
Vice Chair Collins. Thank you. I am very glad that you
clarified the Francis Scott Key Bridge. We had discussed that
on the telephone that this is not 100 percent Federal; it will
be net of the insurance recoveries, and I think that is a
really important fact.
I have many other questions for SBA on how SBA can do a
better job in supporting our unique small businesses along the
coast, like our lobstermen and our working wild fronts. I will
submit those for the record.
Thank you.
Chair Murray. Senator Tester.
Senator Tester. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I want to thank
you and the Ranking Member for not only this hearing, but for
your great leadership, as your terms as Chairman and Ranking
Member of this committee.
I have a pressing issue to discuss. But I first want to say
a few things about the last 16 years that I have served on this
committee. I was recently reminded of a story about a 2013
Omnibus. During those negotiations, Congress decided to add a
provision to that Omnibus bill that would allow Monsanto to
continue selling GMO products, even though a Federal Court had
ruled that they no longer could do so. Folks referred to this
as the Monsanto Protection Act.
I was mad. I was upset, and I voted against that Omnibus in
2013 to show everybody how upset I was, even though I was an
appropriator. After all, we all know if you are a policymaker,
the easiest vote to make is a no vote on a bill that you know
is going to pass. The Appropriation Chair, who was a very
strong woman, came up to me at the time, and on the floor, in
fact, in the cloakroom, and said, ``I do not think you really
want to be an appropriator.'' And I said, ``Why is that?'' And
she said, ``Because you do not support the committee. We do the
hard work. We do what we need to do. We negotiate, and you vote
against it.'' I said, ``Well, I do want to remain on the
committee.'' The answer was yes then, and the answer is yes
now. Why? Because there is not a better committee in this body
when it comes to solving real problems, providing the oversight
that is necessary of our Federal agencies, and responsibly
allocating resources.
This committee has always been the best place to have
genuine policy debates on virtually any issue. Some of my
favorites over the years--and Senator Moran is not here right
now--was the National Bio And Agro Defense facility, keeping
white potatoes on the WIC list, dealing with the Wild Horse
population, fighting back against unnecessary trucking
regulations, and discussing the future of our sugar program. I
could go on. Hell, even one time we moved a USDA Agency to West
Virginia. But looking back, I do not regret that vote back in
2013, because I have feelings about what GMOs do to family farm
agriculture and to the consumer. And besides that, the
provision was unconstitutional, but I did learn a valuable
lesson about the beauty of the appropriations process.
You get some wins, you get some losses, but when this
committee is doing its job, you can count on real debates, on
real issues that are important to Americans. And once you have
won a few arguments, and once you have lost a few arguments,
you should vote for these bills in this committee, and we get
on the floor because this country is better off when Democrats
and Republicans in Congress, and particularly on this
committee, can compromise and do their work, and set a
bipartisan example for the rest of the Senate.
I think that is more important at this point in time than
it has ever been in this country's history, where division is
the biggest problem we have in this country, division among us,
when we all know we have much more in common than we have what
divides us. So I want to root this committee on into the
future. You have a lot of really, really important work to do.
The folks sitting around this rostrum can do good work, I have
seen it before, and I encourage you to do that.
Now, I want to speak briefly on a pressing disaster issue
in my State, and two items Congress must include in the
disaster package. The first is the Fort Belknap Indian Water
Rights Settlement Act, and I want to explain why. And the
second is an appropriation to continue repairs on the St.
Mary's Canal.
Right before the August recess, I spoke to this committee
about a catastrophic siphon failure on the St. Marys Canal,
which is a vital part of the Bureau of Reclamation's Milk River
Project, this catastrophic failure is devastating to the small
towns that rely on clean drinking water, and hundreds of
farmers and ranchers who rely on that project for irrigation.
Sadly, this failure is not a surprise. The Federal
Government constructed the Milk River Project well over 10
years ago. It is an engineering marvel, and despite solid
efforts of local residents to keep up with repairs, a system
which spans hundreds of miles fell into disrepair. In fact, the
siphons literally were held together with duct tape and baling
wire. And that is why there is no question that Congress needs
to step up and address this disaster and make the necessary
improvements to this system to ensure that the next failure
just is not around the corner.
The good news is I have got legislation that can accomplish
this. It is ready to go, the Fort Belknap Indian Community
Water Rights Settlement Act of 2024.
Years ago, Fort Belknap Indian Community recognized that
the Milk River Project was a ticking time bomb that threatened
access to clean water across the northern tier of Montana for
both Indians and non-Indians.
With this in mind, and through their strong leadership,
they decided as part of the settlement of their waterman claims
with the United States they would contribute significant funds
to the settlement to rebuilding the St. Mary's Canal.
As a result, a bipartisan bill has already been passed by
the Senate twice, this Congress. That is right, twice. The
Federal Legislation is over 2 decades in the making. In fact, I
think it has been more--vetted than any other bill that I have
worked on in the 18 years I have served in the Senate. It is
the right bill for this moment, and it is the right time to get
it signed into law, with an appropriation to continue repairs
on the St. Mary's Canal.
I do not have any questions today to the witnesses, but I
ask that as the disaster package is finalized, that folks in
this committee help address our irrigation disaster in Montana.
With that, tally-ho, friends. And thank you, Madam Chair.
Chair Murray. Thank you.
Senator Hyde-Smith.
[Applause.]
Chair Murray. Thank you, Senator Tester. You will be
missed.
Senator Hyde-Smith.
IMPLEMENTATION OF SUPPLEMENTAL FUNDS FOR MARKET LOSSES
Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you, Chair Murray, and Vice Chair
Collins, and I certainly want to thank everybody on the panel
that has come today. I certainly look forward to discussions on
many of these issues with Chairman Schatz, as we have worked
very well together. But today, however, I would like to focus
on the looming farm crisis in this country.
I am going to just start with the bottom line upfront,
because we do not have a Farm Bill. It is absolutely essential
that Congress provide emergency assistance for agricultural
producers before the end of this year. Even if we passed a Farm
Bill today, under the traditional Farm Bill structure,
assistance would not reach the farmers in time, and the
assistance needs to be robust, and it needs to be implemented
swiftly. And then, the third thing is we must address all types
of disasters.
When I say that, I am referring to natural disasters as
well as market-related disasters. I am the former Ag
(Agriculture) Commissioner of my State. I am the former
chairman of the Senate Ag Committee in my State, and serve on
Ag now, I have never had farm credit lenders, and bankers look
at me and say: We are not going to be able to finance these
farmers. I have never had that happen until now.
Senators Ossoff and Tillis, they did a great job explaining
the hardships facing farmers due to natural disasters, but we
also need to focus on market disasters as well, which does not
seem to be getting the proper attention. The devastation of
Hurricane Helene is clear, and my heart goes out to those
farmers. I have been to North Carolina. I have talked to those
people. It is devastating.
It is more difficult, however, to discern market-related
challenges facing our farm country right now, and I am talking
about a very real crisis, rooted in high input costs, rising
interest rates, and low commodity prices. The USDA's recent
2024 cost of production reports best illustrates this market
disaster.
Here is an example of the farm data from the report: It
costs an average of $895 to produce one acre of cotton in 2024.
However, the average revenue generated from that same acre is
$569. That is a $326 per acre shortfall loss between expenses
and revenues, and we all know that revenues must exceed
expenses to make a profit. Losses like this can add up so
quickly. If a farmer planted 3,000 acres of cotton this year
that would result in a total net loss income, a loss of almost
$1 million, $978,000 is what that farmer would lose. Obviously,
nobody can exist under this. You just cannot recover from that.
These types of scenarios are playing out across the country
for all major food crops. These high input and depressed prices
are hurting everyone. I mean, we are talking potato farmers,
apple farmers, dairy farmers, catfish farmers, you name it. But
this year, producers in Mississippi and across the country are
reporting some of the best yields ever. That is what is so hard
about this. They did everything right, yet they will go out of
business if they are unable to secure financing to farm next
year.
The high cost, the high interest rates, and the low prices;
is definitely the perfect storm. You may be hard-pressed to
find a lender able to finance a farmer who is that deep in the
hole, and we understand that. Just like the weather-related
disasters, adverse market conditions are completely out of the
farmer's control.
We have examples of the market loss assistance from the
past. Ad hoc assistance for farmers is often misconstrued as
Congress just responding to damages caused by natural
disasters.
While natural disasters are a common justification for ad
hoc assistance, Congress also approved market loss assistance
because of damaging economic effects. We most recently provided
economic assistance to farmers in the CARES (Coronavirus Aid,
Relief, and Economic Security) Act to offset economic
disruptions caused by COVID-19, and there are many more
examples of Congress doing so during times when crop prices
were low. If they do not have a safety net, we do not have a
Farm Bill.
The Omnibus Appropriations Act of '99 provided more than $3
billion in market loss payments to farmers due to low commodity
prices. The fiscal year 2000 Ag Appropriations Bill provided
$5.5 billion to compensate growers for the low market prices.
The Agricultural Risk Protection Act of 2000 provided money
also. So today, the American farmers and ranchers are
experiencing, literally, unprecedented market conditions.
So my question is--I am running out of time here--is to
USDA Secretary, Torres Small. I so much appreciate the work you
have done. Secretary, I was pleased that OMB requested the $24
billion, but should Congress provide supplemental funding for
market losses, will you work to ensure the Department
implements those funds in a swift and effective measure?
Ms. Torres Small. Senator Hyde-Smith, thank you for your
question. And whatever Congress establishes, it is our
responsibility to deliver. I also recognize that I have spoken
with farmers as well who are struggling, particularly when it
comes to input costs. As Congress identifies and makes the hard
choices about disaster funding, as well as other economic
assistance in the wake of fiscal conservatism, we know that we
have got to look deep into which farmers are struggling.
And so that same report you referenced does also
acknowledge that in the last 4 years, total average net farm
income has been up, above the 20-year average, including one
banner year, and the rest of the years are all above 2014, are
all as high as they have been since 2014. So that means we have
really got to dive into those details about what are--who are
the farmers who are struggling, and how do we support them,
both this time and tracking a future where we are taking on
challenges like domestic fertilization production and increased
market opportunities.
Senator Hyde-Smith. Yeah. With the high cost and the
interest rates, I mean, we are expecting to lose 20 percent of
good producers. So I do think this is a true emergency and a
crisis for our farmers.
Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Chair Murray. Thank you.
Senator Coons.
Senator Coons. Thank you, Chair Murray, thank you, Ranking
Member Collins, and to each of the Administration officials who
have testified today, thank you for your heart, your time, your
effort. We heard from each of you the stories of individuals
you have connected with and where you have gone and visited,
and from the folks in your agencies who are doing the very hard
work of helping the people, of course, of Georgia and North
Carolina, but so many other States across our country recover
from disasters. This is one thing that really should bring all
of us together, and I am grateful for the work of this
committee and of your agencies.
I have two things I wanted to mention. Senator Tillis, in a
compelling opening statement said, ``We have to deliver aid
differently in response to disasters.'' Senator Murkowski and I
have a bipartisan bill that is both bipartisan and bicameral,
has a wide number of co-sponsors that would compel a Federal
resiliency strategy. More than a dozen states around the
country, my home State of Delaware, her home State of Alaska,
as well as the States of North Carolina, Florida, Mississippi,
and Michigan have State resiliency officers or state resiliency
commissions.
And Administrator of FEMA says that every dollar we invest
in resiliency before disaster strikes saves $6 in post-disaster
recovery. Could you just briefly speak to whether it is worth
our having a national resiliency strategy, a chief resiliency
officer, and what our country might gain in terms of reducing
the damage of disasters as the frequency and intensity of them
seems to continue to steadily rise?
Ms. Criswell. Senator Coons, we have seen an increase in
the number of severe weather events, but not just the number,
the complexity and the impacts that they are costing, and it is
making the recovery harder. But I have also seen, as I have
traveled across the United States, where we have invested in
resiliency, and we have seen minimal damage, proof that that
investment makes a big difference in how the communities are--
--
Senator Coons. So what would the value be of having a
national strategy and a single coordinating office or officer?
Ms. Criswell. I think what we need is more communities to
understand this better, and if we can have a coordinated effort
through a national strategy, it would help communities develop
this type of resilience plan.
Senator Coons. Let me raise one other thing, if I could. We
are celebrating the 30th anniversary of AmeriCorps this year,
and in response to disasters, AmeriCorps members from all over
the country redeploy to help with response assistance. In North
Carolina and in Florida, nearly 500 AmeriCorps members have
been on the ground in communities. Our former colleague Senator
Blunt was really struck by how in Joplin, Missouri, when they
were hit by a horrific tornado, it was weeks and months later
that AmeriCorps members who remained on the ground helping with
rebuilding housing, with responding to the community, and
delivering services.
The AmeriCorps members who are serving in North Carolina
and Florida have embedded with FEMA, have worked with local
faith organizations, civic and community organizations, helping
deliver everything from wellness checks to folks who are
isolated due to a lack of transportation, or power access, or
who simply need grocery gift cards or access to clean water.
The supplemental requests $80 million for AmeriCorps. It is a
tiny amount out of this very large bill.
But I just wanted to take a minute and ask if I could,
Administrator, if you see value in having these AmeriCorps
members continue to be a part of your disaster response teams,
helping fix up damaged schools, and homes, and helping clear
debris, and whether you think this is an urgent and important
piece of this supplemental?
Ms. Criswell. Senator, I talked in my opening about how
this is about partnerships, and AmeriCorps is one of our best
partners. The AmeriCorps teams go in the field and they do
things like staff call centers, like you said, they muck and
gut homes. We mission-assign them and bring them in to help us
in communities. In fact, we have mission-assigned them seven
times in 2024, and they are such a critical partner to helping
these communities, helping these homeowners, with things that
they cannot do on their own.
I mean, we also partner with them to create the FEMA Corps
program, where we have hundreds of FEMA Corps members that
actually supplement our workforce in times of need. They go out
into communities and help us deliver our programs. These
programs are critical for the holistic approach to delivering
disaster.
Senator Coons. Each of your agencies has an articulated
relationship, either like FEMA, or directly or indirectly
through grantees, and I would urge you to look at ways that
AmeriCorps members can help expand the reach and impact.
If I could, Mr. Secretary, just one last question; the Key
Bridge was a critical artery, not just for Baltimore but the
whole East Coast. It impacted the Port of Wilmington as well as
our community. We worked alongside the folks who have been
engaged in that urgent recovery. Why should the Federal
Government pay some portion of the reconstruction of this
bridge?
There is at least one Member of the Senate who seems to
press back on the idea of having the Federal Government cover
the cost of reconstructing the Key Bridge. Are there other
examples of the Federal Government doing this, and is it
critical to the timely and complete recovery of the
infrastructure of the Mid-Atlantic?
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, certainly, we regard this as the
sort of disaster that is why we have an emergency relief
program. Some of them are natural disasters, others are
disasters like the destruction of the Key Bridge, something
that is of not just local or regional, but national
significance, when you consider its impact on supply chains.
And of course, this is something that happened through no fault
of the communities that were directly impacted.
I should take the opportunity to clarify the numbers I
stated earlier to Vice Chair Collins. I realized the $1.69
billion figure is before we netted out the $350 million, so the
correct answer would be $1.69 billion less $350 million is what
is contemplated in the request. But again, that principle is,
we will recover some funding through things like the insurance,
but the rest of it, the President has committed to provide,
because again, this is what we do for any community that is
hurting--and certainly when there is an asset of national
significance like the Francis Scott Key Bridge.
Senator Coons. For better or worse, all of us at some point
will be asking for urgent disaster response funding. And I
think that is a key part of this committee and our work
together, and I also recommend to all of my colleagues the
bipartisan bill that Senator Murkowski and I have to invest
more in resilience.
Thank you very much.
Chair Murray. Thank you, Senator Coons.
Senator Fischer.
Senator Fischer. Thank you to the Chair and Ranking Member
for having this hearing today. And thank you to all the members
of the panel for coming.
Director Criswell, as you know, Nebraska saw five separate
major disasters declared in 2024, and I have heard from
communities across the State that have faced lengthy delays due
to FEMA processing and the red tape that takes place and
bureaucracies. Many of these communities are still in the
process of recovering from the 2019 flooding along the Missouri
River.
One example that I have recently was in the City of
Plattsmouth, which backs up against the Missouri. The city has
waited nearly all of this calendar year on a very minor scope
of work change request, and these are small rural communities
with limited resources, and they are really doing the best they
can to support their residents.
I can appreciate you and your best that you are doing your
best with the resources, and the staff that you have, but the
issues I am talking about here are not ones of manpower; it is
not one of logistics, it is paperwork, it is red tape. Will you
commit to working with my office and the Nebraska Emergency
Management Agency to ensure that these impacted communities can
receive timely responses and are not subject to these really,
really long delays, which we all know add costs to the project
in the long term?
Ms. Criswell. Senator Fischer, I have been a local
emergency manager and I understand what they are going through.
You definitely have my commitment, and we are looking always
for ways to reduce the bureaucracy, like recently changing the
small project threshold to $1 million to reduce some of that
paperwork burden for these smaller communities. We will
continue to work with you, and if you have the specific case, I
will look into it personally.
Senator Fischer. Okay, great. We will be in touch, and
Plattsmouth will be happy to hear that. Hopefully, we will get
some of that red tape cut for them soon.
Secretary Buttigieg, it is nice to see you. I have heard
from State DOTs that there is a lack of consistent guidance
from the USDOT regarding the requirements needed for states to
justify building back better after a disaster. The ability for
State DOTs to efficiently use Federal funds to prevent future
infrastructure damage is imperative. How is USDOT ensuring that
clear and consistent guidance is being provided to our State
DOTs on the resilience eligibility for reimbursement after a
disaster?
Secretary Buttigieg. I think your question captures the
fact that in many cases, it does not make sense to replace
something in the exact form or fashion that it was designed 30,
50, or 100 years ago, especially in the face of increasingly
severe and frequent extreme weather. Our programs do
contemplate the ability to do that, and we work to make sure,
not only is there a categorical exclusion designed to cut the
red tape for projects that simply are about replacement, but
that there is support for enhancing and increasing the
resiliency of what is designed, including knowing sometimes a
significant design change is appropriate given what might have
just been learned.
The statute does constrain us in some ways, but often it is
possible within the framework of statute to justify those
improvements or betterments by showing that if you consider the
reduced risk, there really is a cost-benefit to those
improvements. I would be happy to work with you or your team or
any other States that you have spoken with on any specific
cases where they are trying to get the right flexibility. We
will do whatever we can to support them.
Senator Fischer. I would be interested in hearing any
suggestions you may have. I know we are on a short-timeframe,
but I would be happy to hear any suggestions you may have when
you reference the existing statutes that we have to work with
now, what can we do in a new Congress, most likely, when we are
looking at another transportation bill, to be able to use our
resources in a responsible manner, but also to move projects
quicker? If you have specific changes, I would really be
interested in hearing some of those.
Secretary Buttigieg. I would welcome a chance to work with
you on that. Should I preview them now, or just----
Senator Fischer. No. No.
Secretary Buttigieg. All right, we will get back to you on
that. Thanks very much.
Senator Fischer. I have another question for you, while I
have you here. Within days of that 2019 major flooding event
that hit Nebraska, NDOT requested quick-response emergency
funding from FHWA. However, it took the Agency over 3 years to
release the quick-release funds that were there. These funds
are to be used for priority emergency repair work on Federal-
aid routes. So why is not FHWA able to reimburse for emergency
repairs in a more reasonable amount of time? And again, do you
have any ideas on how to make that process go more quickly in
the future? I would really like to see that happen.
Secretary Buttigieg. I am not familiar with what took place
in 2019 before we arrived, but what I will say is that our goal
and generally our practice in recent disasters has been to turn
around a quick release request the same day. And now, that does
involve working closely with the Department of Transportation
involved to identify those dollars that are really going to be
needed right away and can be put to use first, versus those
that are more appropriate for a semiannual allocation. But in
both instances, whether we are talking about a foreseeable
longer-term expenditure, or something where we are talking
about slope stabilization or rerouting traffic--something you
need right away--that funding is no barrier to those on the
ground trying to get that problem solved. And we want to
continue to engage on any refinements to the program that would
help with that.
I will note the Federal Highway Administration is in the
process of a full overhaul and revision of the ER manual that
lays out a lot of those procedures, and I am hopeful that that
will bring additional clarity and refinement to the process
that, might have helped in the situation you are describing.
Senator Fischer. Thank you very much.
Chair Murray. Thank you.
Senator Schatz.
Senator Schatz. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Vice Chair. I
want to thank all of the appointed officials who have done an
extraordinary job in helping us to recover, from the Maui
wildfires. I think everybody knows the story: a very small,
discreet, compact town was 100 percent leveled, incinerated, in
a matter of hours, and more than 100 people died, and we are
dealing with the consequences going forward.
But I want to deal in facts now, because as Senator Tillis
said, the media has moved on from the spectacular and
terrifying suffering, and yet people are still suffering. So
let me start with Secretary Todman. How many structures were
destroyed in the Lahaina fire?
Ms. Todman. My team advised me that there are about 4,000
residential units that were destroyed.
Senator Schatz. 4,000 housing units, 90 percent of the
impacted area, 2,200 structures. And about how many people does
that represent?
Ms. Todman. Probably two and a half times that number, sir.
Senator Schatz. Yeah. So it is about 12,000. So one of the
things you need to know about Lahaina and Hawaii generally is,
you have a lot of multi-generational families, so the number of
people per household is way higher. So you have about 12,000
people without a home. And I want everyone to listen to this
one: How many homes have been rebuilt?
Ms. Todman. We took a look at the Maui County Recovery
Dashboard. It appears that there is just one, sir.
Senator Schatz. One home rebuilt, 116 permits issued, over
the last 15 months, 16 percent of the survivors who are housed
but not in their own home--sorry--not 16, 60 percent of the
survivors have moved at least three times, 20 percent of the
survivors have moved five times. The problem is housing. The
Federal Emergency Management Agency did a good job with the
Army Corps of clearing the debris and making it safe to walk
around. The soil is safe, the infrastructure is coming back
online. The problem is housing, and the way to rebuild a
community is CDBG-DR.
And I want to make two points about CDBG-DR. The first is
the practical impact of a lack of an authorization. We are
currently digging a trench for temporary infrastructure with
FEMA money in partnership with the county, and it is--I mean,
it is expensive to do anywhere, I get it, but it is really
expensive to dig a trench on Maui, more than Oahu, by the way.
It is already expensive in Hawaii generally. We just picked the
most difficult, most time-consuming, most expensive place to
try to dig a trench.
And as soon as we get that DR money, they are going to have
to dig it back up. So if anybody thinks a lack of an
authorization for this program, which we annually put money
toward, is not as if you are being a fiscal conservative by not
authorizing this program, you are just ensuring it is done in
the maximally stupid way. We have a Bipartisan Bill that could
fix this pretty narrow problem. It would not cause a penny of
additional Federal resources to be spent.
It would just ensure that when the two secretaries get
together and think about disaster response and disaster
recovery, they could do it together, and act like smart public
administrators who do not want to waste money. They are being
forced to waste money because of the lack of an authorization.
And so Secretary Todman, I am sorry, I was supposed to ask
more questions, but I got a little wound up. Secretary Todman,
I want you to just walk us through what the human impact will
be, set the DR authorization aside, if we do not fund CDBG-DR
for Maui, what will happen to these Maui families?
Ms. Todman. Well, I think that at some point, there is
going to be a need to shut down some of the temporary housing
arrangements that families have, and notwithstanding, I am
sure, what will be great attempts by the Governor, and the Maui
County Mayor, and yourself, some of those people will leave
Maui. Some of those folks, if they do not find a home, may be
rendered homeless, which of course is not something any of us
want.
But inevitably, not having those homes rebuilt means that
Maui will continue to have an acute housing crisis, which it
had even prior to the wildfires. So I think it will impact not
just the victims and the survivors, but everybody who lives on
the island.
Senator Schatz. Thank you, Secretary. And thank you to all
of you. We are about to, hopefully, spend some number of tens
of billions of dollars on disasters across the country, but as
Senator Tillis said, and Senator Fischer said, and I am trying
to emphasize, we do not have to do it unintelligently. And so
as we--I know we are appropriators and not authorizers, but we
are all members of the United States Senate who have influence
and who sit on authorizing committees, there is no reason we
should spend this amount of money in a way that is so clunky
that the aid does not get to the people, or that we spend more
money than we ought. Thank you very much.
Chair Murray. Thank you.
Senator Boozman.
DISASTER SUPPLEMENTAL NEEDS
Senator Boozman. Thank all of you all for being here. We do
appreciate your hard work.
Secretary Torres Small, we appreciate you very much. I have
enjoyed working with you the last several years, and I know you
have been out about as much as anybody. I think about you being
in Arkansas at one of our smaller communities, and then a
person from an even smaller community being there, and talking
about our water problems, and as a result of your leadership.
And everyone working together, I think we were able to put
together a project that was really the last biggest group of
people that did not have water. I think it was 500 families,
and now have water as a result of that. So you know, those are
good things, and I know you have worked really hard to do that.
I am a little bit concerned about USAID (United States
Agency for International Development) and their response to
what is going on right now, though, in the sense, you know, you
mentioned that agriculture is at the 20-year average. The 20-
year average does not mean anything right now, there is no
person working in America that wants to be at the 20-year
average.
Boeing is striking, has struck, you know, all of these
different areas that we see, they are not asking for a 20-year
average, or whatever. They are wanting 20, 30, 40 percent
increases. And so I agree with Senator Hyde-Smith, it is really
dire in farm country right now. So the other thing that I think
is unfair is that when you talk about agriculture at the 20-
year average, if you are growing--if you are producing cattle,
things like that, it is very, very good. If you are growing
something in the ground right now, it is very, very bad.
And so I have never--I have not been around here forever,
but I have been around here for a while, and I have never been
in a situation where the bankers are coming in saying: If you
do not do something, we are not going to be able to, because of
our bank examiners, we are not going to be able to--going to be
able to provide the credit that our farmers need. You know,
that is not--that is not the 20-year average. It is not a rosy
picture. It is a very dire picture.
So I would agree with her from being out in the field, and
many of you on the committee, as they were home campaigning,
being among rural America, were texting me, you know: What
about the Farm Bill? You know, what are we doing? You know how
is it coming? Because they were hearing from their producers,
but, this is really a critical situation. And so I would really
like for you to talk a little bit more about that. And again,
you are out and about as much as anyone. Can rural America--can
rural America endure this without significant help?
Ms. Torres Small. Just yesterday, I was talking with rice
farmers from Arkansas and also Mississippi, and they showed me
a graph where, you know, the real--really are challenges,
because although we continue to work to drive down the cost of
food, and we have also seen that reflected in terms of
international commodity prices, we have not necessarily been
able to--we have been able to stem inflation, but there is
still high prices for things like fertilizer.
There is a real challenge to retain and pay farm workers,
and there continue to be challenges with interest rates. So I
have certainly talked with farmers who are struggling, and I
know they are very eager, I think we are pleased to see both
versions of the Farm Bill. They are very eager to see movement
on that, particularly with the dairy cliff coming in December.
And I am also eager to have a conversation about how we support
farmers, recognizing that there is a climate of fiscal
responsibility, and diving into those details about who really
is hurting will benefit both the short-term as well as the
long-term.
How do we build back so that we are both supporting
existing farmers but investing in future opportunities for
future farmers.
CONCERNS FROM LENDERS
Senator Boozman. Have you talked to lenders?
Ms. Torres Small. I have, absolutely.
Senator Boozman. What are they saying?
Ms. Torres Small. Recognize there are concerns about
lending in several markets, both in terms of commodities but
also in terms of specialty crops, as well as biofuels and
biodiesel. And we, as lenders ourselves, are still seeing
strong repayment. So we do know that at the same time, there
are opportunities for farmers out there, and we continue to
work to make sure our loans are as accessible as possible.
Senator Boozman. All right. Secretary Buttigieg, thank you
for being here. One of the things that we are concerned about
is, as we have these disasters, and this and that, and we have
destruction, and then rebuild back, are we doing it in such a
way to, to make it such that we are going to be more resilient
to future situations that occur? Do you feel comfortable in
that regard, or are there more resources or more research that
we need to be doing in regard to that?
Secretary Buttigieg. The good news is we are taking steps
that were not possible before the Bipartisan Infrastructure
Law. The PROTECT Program, in particular, largely through
formula going to States, as well as discretionary awards, is
the first-ever dedicated, Federal program--and it is north of
$7 billion--to help with resilience projects. But I believe the
need for resilient construction and reconstruction is only
going to grow, and as Congress contemplates the next--whatever
the successor to IIJA is--I think it will be important to take
on board the data points, both in terms of the early successes
we have seen with PROTECT, and the mounting need, and the
likelihood that it will only be more acute in the years to
come.
Senator Boozman. Good.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Senator Shaheen [presiding]. Thank you, Senator Boozman.
Senator Reed.
Senator Reed. Thank you very much, Madam Chairman. Let me
begin by thanking, Secretary Buttigieg for the tremendous
assistance with our Washington Bridge problem. We had a major
bridge system that connects essentially the East and West sides
of the Providence metropolitan area. One side had to be shut
and demolished. The Secretary has been very, very helpful in
providing grant money of about $221 million. Thank you, Mr.
Secretary, we really appreciate it. And your personal
appearance up there, and you are--I hope you enjoyed lunch in
East Providence, but thank you very much.
There is another issue that I would like to raise. That is,
I have tried to incorporate in the, disaster loan
supplementals, and that is LIHEAP. Senator Collins and I have
been leading the way on LIHEAP for many, many years, and for
people who cannot keep their home warm in the winter or cool
enough in the summer, that is something of a disaster.
President Biden requested $1.6 billion last year. It was
not granted, and we are already behind, I think, in terms of
preparing for that. But having those issues aside, let me
address Administrator Guzman, again related to the, Washington
Bridge disaster. There were a lot of small businesses affected,
and I thank you and your team for distributing about $47
million in EIDL loans.
However, I have heard from many of the local and small
businesses that it was very slow, very timely, very difficult
to understand, so how can Congress help the SBA to provide a
smooth EIDL application process?
Ms. Guzman. Well, thank you for that, Senator. And yes, we
are proud to be able to support over 600 loans to those
affected by the Washington Bridge collapse. SBA this year has
transformed its lending program, under the Disaster Loan
Program. We have relaunched a new platform that is now
available. It takes about 14 minutes to apply for an SBA loan
now. We have cut down processing from 100 days to 50 days with
the investments that we put into streamlining and simplifying
our system as much as possible.
So we are on the right track to continue to improve the
systems, and improve the experience for disaster survivors
across the country. I will say that, as we move towards helping
as many of those individuals as possible, recognizing that
there are some declines. This is a loan, and we are
aggressively focusing on the reconsideration process, and
making sure that a no is not just a final no, that we are able
to provide assistance to redirect, reconsider, as well as
support them on the ground with the full suite of SBA
resources; our Small Business Development Centers, our Women's
Business Centers, et cetera.
As we continue to try to make these improvements into the
future, our on-the-ground presence, the administrative funding
that we need to support disasters, is really critical. That
includes foot soldiers on the ground helping those who have
difficulties, helping them through that process as swiftly as
possible. I will say as well, we are trying to implement a
policy with an administrative authority to simplify our loan
granting with a 12-month deferment on payment and interest,
but, also simplifying unsecured financing.
Senator Reed. Thank you very much. Administrator Criswell,
one of the best ways to avoid a disaster is pre-disaster
mitigation. I know your Agency has several programs that does
that, and last spring we discussed my concerns about the
difficulty of accessing these programs. Many of my communities
will have plans, will go forward, but they often get the answer
``no''. So what can we do to get these pre-disaster mitigation
programs in place to avoid the cost and the difficulties of
disasters?
Ms. Criswell. Yes, Senator, I appreciate that conversation,
because pre-disaster mitigation is so critical, and it is going
to continue to be more critical with the increase in disasters.
We have made some changes to our program by reducing the
discount rate to be able to make it more competitive, also
being able to give additional points through the scoring system
on our competitive grants, for those that have never received a
grant before or those that lived in the areas, or live in areas
where they do not have the resources that major urban areas may
have.
I am committed to continuing to work with you and
understand the barriers that these communities are facing,
especially those that have the highest risk. And part of our
process is now using our Community Disaster Resilience Zone
Identification to better identify the communities that need
additional assistance to help them be competitive and be able
to get this critical funding to help them become more
resilient.
Senator Reed. Thank you very much, ma'am.
Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Senator Shaheen. Thank you, Senator Reed.
Senator Moran.
Senator Moran. Chairwoman, thank you very much. Vice
Chairwoman, thank you. I have so many questions and so little
time. And I want to use some of my time to make a few comments.
But let me start with indicating my--sharing concerns with
my colleagues who spoke previously, the Senator from
Mississippi, and the Senator from Alabama, and what I expect
the Senator from North Dakota to say. Drought is a damning,
circumstance in many places across the country, and especially
at home in Kansas. 79 percent of the acres in Kansas have been
under some form of drought, most of it severe for the year. We
have reduced 79 percent of our wheat crop. We have not had a
wheat crop this small since 1961 because we cannot grow a crop.
You add that to all the other features of high input costs,
low commodity prices, high interest rates, and the damage is
real. Drought is a--no disaster is anything easy to experience,
and we have our share of other kinds of disasters in Kansas,
most notably tornadoes. But drought is something that is so
discouraging, so depressing, we have a tremendous increase in
the number of mental health indications in regard to our
farming population.
I know how it must feel to be a farmer whose great-
grandfather succeeded in keeping the farm together, their
grandfather, their father, and now it becomes the time, and I
should say grandmother and mother, keeping this farm together,
but today's farm family, they have this sense that if they did
it, why can't I? I am a failure.
And drought is this depressing thing that weighs on a
farmer every day. Even I, from here, look at the weather, the
radar every day to see if there is any hope. And I want to
stress to my colleagues on the committee the importance of
agriculture disaster. I do not want to say how many years I
have been in Congress, but I would say that I have been on the
Ag Committee, or the Ag Appropriation Subcommittee all of my
time here, and this is as dire a circumstance that I can see in
my time in trying to address the saving of rural America.
So this is not something that we ought to consider
unimportant. It is hugely important. I would tell you,
Secretary Small, that I do think that this committee, the
Congress ought to be prescribing and giving the Department of
Agriculture specific directions about how Ag disaster funds
should be spent without--some, but also with some level of
flexibility to take care of the things that we may have missed.
But I also want to--why I have mentioned you, Secretary
Small, you said something that I would highlight for you is
important. Well, seem out of--off point, I suppose. But we are
battling OSHA with new rules in regard to safety for
firefighters. Almost 90-plus percent of our firefighters in
Kansas are volunteers, and the OSHA rules and regulations that
they are proposing will eliminate the capability of small town
Kansas and small town America.
We have a noon whistle in my hometown that sounds, it
sounds at noon, but it sounds when there is a fire. And as you
said, when you saw the volunteers that run to the rescue of
people that were--others have testified to people who have lost
their own homes, but come to the rescue of their neighbors,
those are volunteer firefighters across Kansas. And I would
encourage the Department of Agriculture to express the
importance of that, the role of firefighters as OSHA makes its
final determination about these rules.
Then, Ms. Guzman, Secretary, or Administrator, we have SBA
loans that come from the days of the pandemic, EIDL and,
paycheck protection. Our Wichita regional office is working
closely with us, but what has--what happened in too many
instances was people who claimed to be somebody else and got
those loans, and now, now the people who are paying the price
for that fraud are the people who the SBA and the Treasury
Department are pursuing for repayment of loans they never made,
never applied for, and never received.
And I just would encourage you to again reach out and find
a way to put the misery that these individuals are going
through, through no fault of their own, the circumstances they
find themselves in.
And then, finally, to a more, germane, perhaps, topic.
Again, what I think I said is important in all ways of how we
fight disasters, and how comprehensive the problem is at home.
But I also would add, nothing is included in this
Appropriations bill at this point in regard to NASA. And
Senator Shaheen and I are responsible in some ways, many ways,
for the appropriations for NASA, and the disasters that they
have experienced over a long period of time, including in Guam,
as well as Kennedy, Johnson, and Stennis, are dramatic, and
huge, and damaging to the capability of NASA to fulfill its
mission.
Finally, what I want to make certain is, I want to express
my disgust, dissatisfaction; I sound bold when I say
``disgust'', then I feel uncomfortable being that way, and I
change the word to dissatisfaction, excuse me, disgust and
dissatisfaction about our inability to do an appropriation bill
for 2025 in this committee, in this session, before the end of
the year. And it seems, one more time, we are going to fail to
have that opportunity because of decisions made elsewhere.
I use that to say that, in my view, this committee--the
discussions we had in the reorganization of the Republican
Conference this year, revolved around how to get the Senate to
work again, and for us to have meaningful work to do. And the
answer every time is, let the committees do their work, and I
am fearful that, in this instance of this disaster program,
that once again this will be shuffled off to somebody else, not
the Appropriations Committee, to complete the details.
And I would urge the leadership of this committee and all
of us to lobby our leaders to remind us--to remind them that
this is the committee that should have jurisdiction over what
we are talking about today. And this should not be a one-shot
hearing with the administrators of the various Agencies and
Departments that are affected by this. This ought to be our
work from now to the end of the year. We claim, and I believe
it is true, we have the time to complete the full fiscal year
'25 Appropriation bill, and if we are not going to do that, we
certainly have the time to be the committee that is responsible
for the work that is before us today.
Thank you.
Senator Shaheen. Well, amen, Senator Moran. I, and I would
bet the entire committee, support your disgust.
Senator Baldwin.
DIRECT ASSISTANCE PROGRAM FOR CONVENTIONAL DAIRY
Senator Baldwin. Thank you. And I will associate myself
with those comments also.
I want to thank the Chair and Vice Chair for hosting this
vital hearing today to discuss the Administration's request for
response to recent natural disasters. I will add that the
Administration's request includes $4 billion--just about $4
billion in supplemental funding within the jurisdiction of the
Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education Subcommittee.
And this funding is such that has routinely been included in
prior disaster supplementals.
It is intended to address critical needs in areas affected
by natural disasters related to health care, mental health
care, child welfare, aging and disability services, child care,
and education, among others. And so I hope to ensure that in
any supplemental that communities have access to those
necessities also.
I want to associate myself with Senator Moran's, comments,
global comments, but also about the impact of disasters on
rural America and, in my State, in particular, to the dairy
industry. Ms. Torres Small, I wrote to the Department of
Agriculture this summer to sound the alarm on challenges that
Wisconsin dairy farmers were facing due to no fault of their
own. These are things like extreme weather events, drought, as
was mentioned by Mr. Moran, highly pathogenic avian influenza,
and the high input costs of fuel and fertilizer. They have
shared their concerns with me as they strive to recover from
these challenges.
However, they have found that existing resources, and risk
management tools at the USDA do not meet their needs. Last
Congress, as then chair of the Agricultural Appropriations
Subcommittee, I made the request of the Agency to establish a
direct assistance program for organic dairy farms facing
similar challenges.
Your Agency responded by creating the Organic Dairy
Marketing Assistance Program, and it has been a resounding
success, providing multiple rounds of direct assistance to the
organic dairy sector. Given the success of that program in
addressing challenges faced by the organic sector, do you think
a comparable direct financing assistance program for
conventional dairy would help mitigate the loss of family farms
in a state like Wisconsin?
Ms. Torres Small. Thank you very much, Senator Baldwin, for
your advocacy for our dairy farmers and our dairy industry. It
is crucial to all of us, that we have the national milk supply,
and we maintain the national milk herd. We worked incredibly
hard on the organic program, the CCC (Commodity Credit
Corporation) program, and part of the reason we focused on that
is because it was an opportunity to also add value for dairy
farmers, particularly smaller dairy farmers that might
struggle, solely as price takers when it comes to milk as a
commodity.
But we recognize that there is lots of ways that we need to
support milk and dairy farmers. So other things that we are
working on, of course, we also used funding from the CCC to
provide support for not only dairy farmers that had experienced
H5N1 on their dairies, but also to support them to keep them
from getting it in the future, funding robust testing, as well
as plans for bio security and also opportunities for PPE
(personal protective equipment) for farm workers.
So we continue to work very hard to work with dairy farmers
to fight potential H5N1 circumstances. And of course, we would
do anything, implement any program that Congress were to create
to address farm stress and challenges.
LIVESTOCK INDEMNITY PROGRAM ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA
Senator Baldwin. I do want to get a couple more questions
in. I also want to draw to your attention the Livestock
Indemnity Program, which was designed to provide relief for
farmers suffering livestock losses due to severe weather
events. MacFarlane Pheasants in Wisconsin is the largest
pheasant producer in the country. They were denied assistance
despite losing over 50,000 birds due to an E2 tornado in this
past summer.
After my office conducted casework on the farmer-owner's
behalf, we learned that USDA denies these claims and
discourages farmers from applying, because USDA interprets the
statute as excluding game birds, and I do not agree, and I want
to see this change. Given the increasing frequency of severe
weather events and the critical financial impact of them on
farmers, is the USDA prepared to reconsider its interpretation
of the Livestock Indemnity Program eligibility criteria?
Ms. Torres Small. We will continue to have--to discuss with
you that interpretation. As you know, the statutory language
allows for poultry for commercial use, and since 2009, USDA has
had this regulation that did not allow coverage for birds that
are used for hunting, and so we would love to follow up with
you. Know that also as the Farm Bill is being discussed, it
might be an opportunity to clarify Congressional intent.
Senator Shaheen. Thank you, Senator Baldwin.
Senator Hoeven.
STRUCTURING DISASTER RELIEF
Senator Hoeven. Thanks, Madam Chair. So I am going to
follow up on comments by both Senator Boozman and Senator
Moran. And Secretary Torres Small, good to see you again, and
thanks for being in our State, and for a lot of the good work
that that you do. Appreciate having you here today.
Senator Boozman talked about 20-year average income. Now,
just think about that for a minute. That probably put you 50
percent below your actual costs. If you were getting your--you
know, figuring out your pay for the last 20 years, and you are
getting the average, the 20-year average, and then figure out
what your expenses are today, you know, fuel, fertilizer, and
everything else--you are way below cost.
So number one, across the country, that is what our farmers
are seeing, right? And just to really pound home what that
means. Second, for the point that Senator Moran made, he talked
about drought. Forty-eight States have reported drought this
year. Last I checked, there is only 50; 48 States reported
drought. So you can see the kind of stress that our--our farm--
now, everybody knows about the hurricanes and the disasters,
and all that, you see it on television and everything else, but
that is the rest of the story that has really put our farmers
and ranchers up against it.
So, the key here is that we not only provide these disaster
systems, but that you work with us--that USDA works with us so
that we structure it right, not only in terms of making it
effective to meet the need, but to help us get this Farm Bill
done so that when our producers go in--and I think it was
Senator Boozman talking about it or maybe one of the others--
that they can get a plan and get credit to farm next year.
We are losing farms at a high rate, and the farms we are
going to lose as a result of these disasters, and the drought,
and everything else are the ones that are on the edge. Those
are the ones that get hit the hardest, right?
So you know, I ask for your assurances that you will work
with--because we--and we have worked with WHIP+ (Wildfire and
Hurricane Indemnity Program Plus), we worked with the ERP
(Emergency Relief Program), which is what, Secretary Vilsack
modified the program to be, and sometimes it has worked, and
sometimes it has not. But will you commit to work with this
committee to structure this, not only for best advantage in the
disaster package, but to help us get this Farm Bill done?
Ms. Torres Small. Thank you, Senator Hoeven, for your
collaboration. It is a joy to get to work with you.
When it comes to, I do want to briefly address the net farm
income because, when we talk about net farm income, what I
mentioned is the last 4 years. One has been a banner year,
setting record numbers; the other three have all been within
the 20-year national average, but also higher than they have
been since 2014. So there was a real lull in between 2014 and
these last 4 years where we saw even lower net farm income.
That being said, I have talked with farmers who are
struggling. I know that we need to work to make sure that
farmers both are able to, make ends meet now and in the future,
and we are committed to working with you in any technical
assistance that is needed.
Senator Hoeven. And I know you pretty well, and I know you
understand the problem. I understand you have a job to, you
know, defend some of the statistics that USDA is putting out
there, but average expenses are way above that average income.
That is a problem. Agreed?
Ms. Torres Small. We will continue to work together to
drive down input costs, but net income includes costs.
Senator Hoeven. But more importantly, how we structure--let
us get to the real--the heart of the question: Is your
willingness to work with us now on structuring this the right
way? I am pretty sure the answer is yes.
Ms. Torres Small. Yes, sir.
Senator Hoeven. But I want to hear it.
Ms. Torres Small. Yes, sir.
ADDRESSING LIVESTOCK PROGRAMS
Senator Hoeven. All right. Thank you. The second thing is
what--and you have been to our State, and you have been good
about coming. We had not only drought but wildfires, and I do
not know if you are aware of that, but our livestock producers,
as well as livestock producers across the country are going to
get help. And so again, your commitment--I know you have
knowledge in that area, but your commitment in terms of making
sure that those livestock programs are addressed as well?
Ms. Torres Small. Yes. So we will continue to work to look
at EQIP (Environmental Quality Incentives Program) and ELAP
(Emergency Assistance for Livestock, Honey Bees, and Farm-
raised Fish), and what we can do for water hauling as well as
transportation of cattle in the face of a disaster.
Senator Hoeven. Okay. Thank you. And again, on behalf of
the Full Approps Committee, the Ag Approps Committee, and the
Ag Authorizing Committee, we want to work closely with you on
this. And so we appreciate you being here today, and again,
your willingness to work with us.
Director Criswell, how can we be sure that, by the way, you
were in North Dakota in 2011 when we had drought--a flood out
there, and more than 4,000 homes in a relatively small
community were flooded out, completely. So you know, I know you
know firsthand what it is like to work on the ground with
people that have been hard-hit.
How can we be assured that FEMA will fairly and impartially
address every single person that is affected by any kind of
disaster, given what happened earlier, after those hurricanes
in the Southeast? How can we be sure that you are on top of
that and that kind of incident will not happen, and that people
will not be unfairly treated?
Ms. Criswell. Senator Hoeven, yes, I spent 7 months in your
lovely State with that disaster, and I know firsthand how
people are impacted. Our goal as an Agency is always to treat
everybody fairly and equally and ensure that they have access
to our programs. The incident that happened in Florida is
simply unacceptable, and I have instituted an investigation. I
have reached out to the IG and asked for an independent
investigation of this incident, I have sent an email out to our
workforce, and we have provided refresher training to all of
our staff in the field to ensure that this type of behavior
never happens again. People are at their worst day. They
deserve their government to be able to help them, and you have
my commitment to make sure that if we find any other instances,
we will take appropriate disciplinary action.
Senator Hoeven. Yeah, it is critically important that
people understand that, and that it is transparent so that they
can have confidence in FEMA.
Ms. Criswell. Yes.
Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Chair Murray [presiding]. Senator Heinrich.
Senator Heinrich. Administrator Criswell, as I have
expressed to you, I am extremely disappointed that so many New
Mexicans continue to wait for relief and compensation that they
are owed through the Hermit Peak, Calf Canyon Claims Office.
And so I want to ask you: What can FEMA do differently so that
the folks who literally lost everything in the fire are not the
last to get their compensation?
Ms. Criswell. Yeah. Senator Heinrich, I appreciate your
continued work with my Department, my Agency, the staff that
are in the field, to make sure that everybody in New Mexico
that was impacted by these horrific fires gets the compensation
they need. We have increased our staffing significantly
throughout the year, and we have increased the number of claims
that are being paid out as a result of that.
To date, we have over $1.5 billion that has gone into the
hands of people, but we know we have more work to do. We
continue to bring in our staffing and ensure that we have the
right amount of people, the right amount of resources to have
that----
Senator Heinrich. It seems like the people who were hit the
hardest, though, are at the tail end of getting compensated.
The simple claims have moved, and the more complicated but also
more devastating claims are often the ones that are not getting
done in a timely way.
Ms. Criswell. We are working with each person individually,
Senator, as they each have their own unique experience. And the
more complicated ones require additional information. And that
is why we want to have the appropriate amount of staff,
increase our staffing, so we can work with each family, each
individual, to understand their specific needs, get that
documentation, and get them the reimbursement that they are
eligible for.
Senator Heinrich. The President's supplemental budget
request includes transfer authority for an additional $1.5
billion to compensate those victims. What would be the impact
on my constituents if that funding is not approved?
Ms. Criswell. The current authorization was for $4 billion,
and we had an independent actuarial report recently that shows
that this is not going to be sufficient. And we expect it to be
somewhere over $5 billion and it may even go higher. Without
that ability to transfer that funding, we can meet claims
today, the claims that we have had submitted, but I will not be
able to meet----
Senator Heinrich. Down the road, that would not be the
case.
Ms. Criswell [continuing]. I will not be able to meet the
claims down the road, based on what I believe is an accurate
report from this independent actuary.
Senator Heinrich. Administrator Guzman, SBA loans, as we
have heard repeatedly from my colleagues today, are literally a
lifeline for families and businesses and nonprofits that are
recovering from flooding from New Mexico to North Carolina. We
have had severe floods in Roswell and Chaves County in New
Mexico in recent weeks. Last week, I joined Senators Tillis,
and Budd, and Warner, and others in pushing a stop-gap bill to
restart those SBA loans immediately.
If Congress passes the President's request, will the people
needing loans at SBA, in Roswell, and other communities across
the country be able to get the low-interest loans that they
need to rebuild?
Ms. Guzman. Yes, SBA is prepared to act swiftly to continue
processing all the loans that are pending our review as well as
those that are already in queue. That is nearly $1 billion in
lending. We will be able to immediately inform them within 24
to 48 hours and get all the finalized closing documents to move
as quickly as possible.
Senator Heinrich. Secretary Todman, HUD still, still has
not approved the State of New Mexico's action plan for recovery
from the floods and fire disasters of 2022. That is an
impediment to recovery efforts. Do I have your commitment to
approve New Mexico's plan before the end of the year, when we
will see an administration change?
Ms. Todman. You know, my team did brief me on some of the
technical difficulties the grantee has been experiencing, and
we are going to provide technical assistance so we can try to
get that across the line before the end of the year.
Senator Heinrich. We need to get that--I mean, we will
start from ground zero with a brand new administration, with
all the turnover. Like, we need to get that done by the end of
the year.
Ms. Todman. You have my commitment.
HERMIT PEAK DISASTER RECOVERY TEAM
Senator Heinrich. Deputy Secretary Torres Small, the Santa
Fe National Forest has been struggling for months to hire
disaster recovery team members for Hermit Peak, Calf Canyon,
for the burn scar. And as you know, President Biden made a
commitment to these communities. It is really critical that we
get those hires done. Do you have an update on when those
positions will be filled?
Ms. Torres Small. We have been working exceptionally hard,
recognizing that we are doing so in a very challenging fiscal
environment. As you know, it takes people to both fight fires
but also manage a forest better in the future. We have been
able to rebuild through the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, but
now we are facing some real budget constraints. And so
initially, we had to impose a hiring pause, a hiring freeze all
across the Forest Service as a result, because we are preparing
for, as you mentioned, changes when it comes to appropriations
dollars.
That being said, there is an exceptions process, and
recognizing the commitment that we have made in terms of
recovery for Hermit Peak, Calf Canyon fire, we have considered
that exceptions process, and the Chief, the Forest Service
Chief has reviewed four positions and approved four positions
for hiring.
Senator Heinrich. I think my time has expired. Thank you,
Madam Chair.
Chair Murray. Senator Britt.
Senator Britt. Thank you, Madam Chairman. First, thank each
and every one of you for being here today. Secretary Buttigieg,
thank you for making time to come to Alabama, and not only be
there but explore a little bit in Mobile. People really, really
appreciated that, and appreciate all of you being here and the
work that you are doing.
I do want to talk first to my colleagues. On January 12th,
2023, Selma, Alabama, was hit and devastated by an EF2 tornado,
and this piece of legislation has some important funding for
DRA, $10 million, to help with those communities that were
affected by storms in 2023.
Number one, I want to make sure that that money actually
goes to these communities that were affected and need it, like
Selma, to help them rebuild and create resiliency. But two, I
want us to make sure we are looking at actual needs, and that
the needs are taken care of in this bill. I know for Selma this
is a start, but certainly will not meet that, and I think we
all know that Selma, and the community, and the significant
history that occurred there, and the preservation of that is
not just important for the State of Alabama, it is important
for the Nation, and it is important for the globe.
And so I urge my colleagues to help me in this and make
sure that the community of Selma has what it needs. And thank
you to Senator Coons for the work he has done with me,
alongside me on this.
FARMER ECONOMIC RELIEF
Deputy Secretary Torres Small, I want to associate myself
with every comment made by my distinguished colleague from
Mississippi, Senator Hyde-Smith. She is spot-on, along with so
many of my other colleagues on both sides of the aisle that
have discussed agriculture issues. But I want to talk
specifically about Alabama.
Alabama agriculture producers are experiencing the same
economic disasters as countless others are in the Southeast and
across the Nation. Year-over-year inflation and debilitating
domestic energy policies have led to soaring input costs,
tanking commodity prices, you are looking at higher interest
rates on capital needed to plant and cultivate farms and fields
producing food for our Nation's family. These variables,
amongst others, are forcing Alabama farmers to make tough
decisions about the future of their operations. It is hard to
find a farmer in the entire State of Alabama who is not
hurting.
According to the report released on September 5th of this
year, overall net cash farm income in Alabama declined more
than $1 billion between 2022 and 2023. This represents a
staggering 33 percent loss in overall net cash farm income in
just 1 year, much higher than the Nation's decline of 19.5
percent. The main cause of this loss is out of the control of
these farm families. They are doing everything that they are
supposed to, they are taking a look at their input costs, and
things just do not work.
According to the 2022 USDA Census of Agriculture, Alabama
farmers experienced a 39.5 percent increase in the cost of
production from 2017 to 2022, ranking second amongst all
Southern States. So make no mistake, this is a crisis, and as
Congress considers the disaster needs, we must also consider
how to ensure that our agriculture producers receive quick and
robust economic relief to ensure that our hard-working family
farmers can enter the next planting season with certainty, and
allow our farm creditors to lend with confidence.
So Mrs. Small--Mrs. Torres Small, I want to make it clear
that this is an immediate need for our farmers in Alabama and
across the nation and I look forward to working with you to
provide this relief quickly so that our farmers can get seeds
in the ground next spring. Thank you.
I want to go ahead and move on to Administrator Criswell. I
want to turn to the recent reports about FEMA, the supervisor,
obviously, that we have all heard about that you terminated. We
continue to see more and more things come out. I actually sent
you a letter regarding this incident, and while I received the
response four days late, kudos to your team for getting it to
me at 10:30 last night before today's hearing.
Madam Chairman, I would like to ask you about a couple of
the responses that I received in that letter. So in regards to
my question about, you know, if you were going to discuss the
fact that the investigations were underway, you immediately
said that you had requested an investigation by DHS Office of
Inspector General, in that you said a couple of other things.
And I think I just want to clarify that you are not--this
investigation will not just be about one incident. You are
going to allow this investigation to be across the footprint in
all the states that FEMA operates?
Ms. Criswell. Correct, ma'am.
Senator Britt. Okay, thank you. And then, additionally, and
I heard you say it again today, you said you would take
appropriate disciplinary and corrective actions if you found
someone else to be complicit in this in that way, I want to
make sure that that means that they will be terminated, like
Miss Washington was.
Ms. Criswell. Up to termination, depending on what the
action was, yes.
Senator Britt. But if the action was similar to hers, it
will be termination.
Ms. Criswell. Correct.
Senator Britt. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you
so much for your time.
Chair Murray. Senator Manchin.
Senator Manchin. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Thank you all
for being here, and I appreciate very much your service.
West Virginia is the--this is for all--West Virginia is the
only State that lies completely within the Appalachian Mountain
region. Despite this, the U.S. Department of Agriculture's
definition of rural excludes some of the most geographically
isolated and unpopulated areas of my State of West Virginia.
Fayette County is one example. It is the largest city, has
just under 8,000 residents, the largest city in the county. Its
landscape is mountainous, with secondary roads that make travel
difficult. I know that Secretary Buttigieg has been there
before. Over the last several years, it has been hit with
devastating floods. However, many programs across the Federal
Government classify the county as urban, urban, preventing it
from accessing the resources they need.
At my urging, the United States Department of Agriculture
Economic Research Services recognized the unique topography of
our State in their recent report on rugged terrain. The report
found that almost 81 percent of West Virginia lives in a rugged
area. That is compared to just 11.7 percent of the entire
United States population. Well, that is why they call us
``Mount Mama.'' Several agencies have proposed ways to
incorporate ``ruggedness'' into their definition of ``rural'',
to ensure the critical resources are reaching those areas in
most need.
Many disaster programs that your agencies oversee direct
specific resources to rural areas, but do not adequately
recognize the Appalachian as rural. This means that West
Virginians that are impacted by disasters are not really
getting the help and the support that they need.
So I do not know. I just would hope that all of you would
be cognizant of this ``ruggedness'' definition, because it is
unbelievable. You know, sometimes in our State, you only see
the sun from 11:00 to 2:00. Anyway, they are beautiful people,
but they just need the same assistance as everyone else.
This is to my friend, Secretary Buttigieg. The Appalachian
Development Highway establishment--Highway System--was
established in 1965 to connect I-81 in Virginia to I-79 in West
Virginia, and over 55 years later, we are still working on it.
We are getting better. In a State as rugged and, again,
mountainous as mine, natural disasters can quickly cut West
Virginia off from help.
This is a lifeline coming from east to west, west to east,
connecting this population base of the D.C. Metro area into the
interior of West Virginia would be a game changer for our
State, both logistically and economically, and allow us to
better prepare for natural disaster. We only have about 15
miles left as far as when we are on route to get everything in
West Virginia done. Our trouble is basically coming at
Wardensville, West Virginia, going into connecting I-81. It
starts right now. The Corridor H comes to--it comes to
Wardensville, and it stops, and we see no movement whatsoever
to connect to I-81.
We know there is a lot of politics involved, but we think
that has all been passed through. If you could look at that,
sir, that would be the last major connection. It would truly,
truly set us up in a much better situation. I do not know if
you were made aware of that.
Secretary Buttigieg. Thank you. Yes, we are very aware of
the importance of the Corridor H vision to you and to the
people of West Virginia. I do know that West Virginia intends
to use their National Highway Freight Program formula funds for
Corridor H, and that that will amount to a portion of what I
believe is $203 million of Formula Funding coming their way. I
know that there have also been applications for discretionary
programs, and we are aware of a set-aside that is complicating
these programs.
Senator Manchin. You have all been great, you all----
Secretary Buttigieg. So we will keep working with the other
agencies on that.
Senator Manchin. You have all been great, Secretary. If you
can just check on the Virginia side, my dear friends in
Virginia.
Secretary Buttigieg. Will do----
Senator Manchin. We all love very much, and I want you to
know we did not break away from Virginia. They left us.
[Laughter.]
Secretary Buttigieg. I will make sure to ask them about
that, Senator.
[Laughter.]
Senator Manchin. This is to Administrator Guzman. The Small
Business Administration's Disaster Loan Program is a vital
lifeline for communities recovering from major disasters such
as hurricanes Helene and Milton. These large-scale events
require significant resources. My colleagues have rightfully
acknowledged SBA's efforts in providing critical support. At
the same time, I think it is important to recognize SBA's role
in addressing smaller-scale disasters year-round.
Earlier this year, my State of West Virginia was a great
example when the SBA made economic injury disaster loans
available to small businesses, and agricultural crops impacted
by severe drought conditions in West Virginia. Thank you. Thank
you. Thank you.
These types of losses often do not qualify for FEMA or CDBG
funding, so I appreciate you taking the initiative, Secretary,
working with us in those as well. So what I can ask is, could
you speak to how SBA balances the needs of larger-scale
disasters with the smaller, localized ones that are left
behind?
Ms. Guzman. Happy to do that. Yes. I mean, at any given
time, we have, of course, the presidential declarations, but
also our own set of SBA disasters that we are coordinating with
the governors to ensure that we can support, as well as through
USDA, on any of those crop disruptions. And so, currently, I
have about 220 crop disruptions, as well as 11 SBA-only
declarations.
Senator Manchin. Yeah.
Ms. Guzman. We deploy our teams for those physical as well
as economic injury disaster loans, and we work through our
partners on the ground to ensure that there is awareness. The
disaster administrative dollars that we get, to make sure we
can deploy as extensively as possible, are very critical for us
to ensure people are aware of these resources that are
available on the ground. And we will always continue to try to
do a better job working in partnership with locals to ensure
that there is awareness of these great resources.
Senator Manchin. Thank you so much. I will just wrap up.
The ruggedness situation is important to myself and Senator
Capito. We are very concerned because we have a beautiful,
rugged State. Corridor H is important to connect us to the
metropolitan areas to finish that up. And on helping the small
businesses that do not qualify for FEMA and that they cannot
make it without a little bit of assistance.
Thank you all. I appreciate your service. Thank you very
much.
Chair Murray. Senator Murkowski.
Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to
those of you who are here today.
You know, just listening to each of our colleagues from
around the country talk about the various disasters that have
impacted them, whether it is droughts, or floods, landslides,
our reality is that what we are seeing is accelerating in terms
of not only the types of disasters that we are seeing, but the
economic impact, the security impact, and of course, the loss
of life.
I was out in Guam a few weeks ago with Senator Manchin, we
are looking to Guam to be this platform for defense for the
country, but they are digging out of a typhoon from 2 years--or
Mawar--2 years ago now, I believe it is.
Secretary Buttigieg, I appreciate the fact that the Alaska
$107 million in the emergency response account addresses
Typhoon Merbok. But again, you know, that is a disaster 2 years
ago. I think we recognize that we are dealing now, okay, we are
talking about Milton, we are talking about Helene, but we still
have, on the books, all of these other disasters that we can--
that we can name, that we can relate to.
And so we have got a system that is not, it is not keeping
up, it does not have the nimbleness, it does not have the
reflexes that we need. When Senator Coons talks about
resilience, and do we need a resilience strategy, I think we
need more than that.
When we are tasked with: Well, okay, here is the funding,
here is the response, but there is strings attached to it, and
so instead of building back better, it is building back
substantially similar. And if you are being threatened by
coastal erosion, where you know the disaster next year is just
going to be worse than what you had last year, it does not make
anybody feel secure in their homes.
Today, is the 1-year anniversary of a landslide in one of
my hometowns, Wrangell, Alaska, where six lives were lost, a
family of five, when a landslide came down in a part of the
community that nobody anticipated, thought was going to break
loose. But it was intense rains combined with winds, and our
reality is our lack of preparedness, our lack of being able to
monitor, our lack of censoring, our lack of truly understanding
our ability to track our weather systems.
In all of Southeast, an area that is the size of the State
of Florida, I am told that we have one radar; so it is no
wonder that we are not able to anticipate what is coming at us
and to better protect our communities. The hometown--the town
that I was born in, in Ketchikan, experienced a deadly
landslide just some months ago, a few months ago.
We are talking about small-scale, big-scale, but whatever
it is that is hitting us, your agencies are struggling, your
agencies are overwhelmed, whether you or FEMA, or whether it is
any one of you. One of the agencies that is not represented at
the table today is someone from Commerce. I wanted to ask about
why we do not have anybody to talk about the fact that there is
no assistance, no disaster assistance for the ongoing fisheries
disasters that we are seeing in my part of the country, and
Senator Shaheen's, and Senator Murray's here.
We are told: Well, maybe there is going to be another
supplemental. But in the meantime, our fishermen, our fishing
communities--our coastal communities that rely on them are
being devastated, just literally taken out at the knees. There
are no funds in the fisheries resource disaster assistance
account. There are no funds. And so how we deal with these
disasters is very real and very personal to each and every one
of us.
Let me ask a question, because I have talked more than I
need to here, but I am--we have people that are not going to
wait for you all to come and help them. Kotzebue just
experienced a major flooding. They need to get things secure
before winter really, really hits, which it already is. Ice is
coming. They are locked in. They have got to spend the money.
They cannot wait. They cannot wait to have Department of
Transportation--again, Secretary, I appreciate that we have got
$107 million in that account, the unmet needs account, but how
do we cut through the tape to ensure that the aid is not
delayed because of this backend accounting requirement about
which the costs are attributable to the agencies?
This is a challenge for people. They need to move forward,
but they are afraid they are not going to be able to get the
reimbursement. Is there some way to embrace something like an
advanced construction concept for disaster response? I think
these are the types of things that we need to be thinking
about.
My time is out. But if you have a quick answer, answer it;
in the meantime, we have all got to be thinking about how we
can address what I think is a disaster response system that is
not meeting the current state of affairs.
Secretary Buttigieg. Very briefly. You have my commitment
to work within--to do everything as flexibly and swiftly as we
can within the statute that we have, and for technical advice
on anything that could help create some flexibilities, like you
mentioned. Things like advance work have helped on regular
construction to not have to wait for all of the obligation
machinery to move. I would welcome exploring ways to bring that
to bear in Alaska.
And having visited Kotzebue last year when I went to
Alaska, at your invitation, I have some sense of what they are
up against. Our field staff on the ground in Alaska will be
ready to assist any way they can.
Senator Murkowski. And I would, would hope that the rest of
you on the panel would also agree.
Ms. Todman. Senator, I would add to that?
Senator Murkowski. You may.
Ms. Todman. If our disaster recovery funds are approved, it
will be available for your fisheries.
Senator Murkowski. Yay. Best news of the day. Thank you.
Chair Murray. Senator Shaheen.
ESTIMATING FARM LOSSES
Senator Shaheen. Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you to
each of you for being here, and for the hard work that so many
members of--that everyone in your agencies are doing to help
those people affected by these terrible emergencies.
Deputy Secretary Torres Small, you had a chance to come to
New Hampshire and to talk with some of our farmers. I was
interested in Senator Ossoff talking about some of the farmers
in Georgia who lost 20- to 30 percent of their crops. Well, we
had fruit growers in New Hampshire, as you know, who lost 80 to
100 percent of their stonecrops, all--everything they lost in
2023 because of the freeze and late frost that really
devastated so many of our growers.
And because we have small farms, and about 90 percent of
our growers do not participate in Federal crop insurance
programs because the crop insurance programs have not really
been designed to help farmers like we have in New Hampshire,
Senator Collins talked about the same challenges in Maine.
So how does the Agency estimate accurate losses for states
with high rates of small and diversified farms that have
limited engagement with the Federal programs?
Ms. Torres Small. This is an issue that is especially
important in New Hampshire, and in my visit and conversations
with fruit farmers in New Hampshire, certainly saw that the
insurance payments--insurance programs do not fully recognize
the need, particularly when it comes to specialty crops. So our
estimate of the 2023 losses of $10.7 million was based on the
known and estimated insurance, as well as NAP (Noninsured Crop
Disaster Assistance Program), NAP indemnity payments. And so
recognizing that that may not be the full and complete picture,
we know that there was a cooperative extension estimate that
was $26 million.
Senator Shaheen. Right.
Ms. Torres Small. So in addition--addition to continuing to
work with your team, we also know that we need to expand those
insurance programs. NAP is a fundamental way of doing that
because it helps build the case for, actual insurance programs
in the future. We also just recently announced to the CCC
specialty crop program, that it will be $2 billion to provide
marketing support and assistance for specialty crops.
Senator Shaheen. So does the estimate that has been sent to
this committee for covering losses, farm losses, would it allow
for a number that is greater than the $10.7 million that you
have determined?
Ms. Torres Small. So the first amount is based on the
indemnity payments and information that we have there. We also
plan, if asked to do, to administer an ERP, there is a second
track for revenue losses, and certainly could consider that
there.
Senator Shaheen. Because clearly those numbers do not
reflect the real losses that we are experiencing in a state
like New Hampshire.
Administrator Criswell, I would like to add my concerns to
what we have heard from a number of members here about the
length of time that so many of our small communities are
waiting. And I appreciate that there have been so many
disasters that it is hard to keep up, but we have communities
in New Hampshire going from the Canadian border in the north to
the Massachusetts border in the south, every place from
Pittsburgh to Acworth that have not yet received
reimbursements, and they have been waiting for about 2 years.
So what can we do to try and move those checks along? As
everyone has said, these are small communities, they have been
hit hard, they do not have the capacity to cover those kinds of
rebuilding costs. And they really need to be reimbursed at
the--once they have filled out their paperwork they need to see
those dollars coming in.
Ms. Criswell. Yes, Senator. We understand that these cash
flow issues are critical for these small communities, and
again, every community has their own specific needs,
requirements, and paperwork that we have to have submitted, and
if you have somebody specific, I am happy to look into
individual cases to see if there is something that we can do to
move it along. Part of our changes recently, with increasing
the dollar threshold on small projects, helps to simplify that
procedure.
But we also have other mechanisms that we can put in place
to do advanced payments so they do not have to wait for the
entire project to be done. If that is something that would
benefit, I would be happy to look into that for your particular
communities. But we want to continue to work with you on how we
can make this simpler as we continue to see more disasters
happening across the United States.
Senator Shaheen. And I think that is very important. These
are communities that, to my understanding, have already
submitted their paperwork, and are in compliance. They are just
waiting for their checks. It includes Dalton, Acworth, Hampton,
Gorham, Newton, Ashby, Littleton, Pittsburgh, and Monroe, so it
is across the State. And you know, once they have submitted the
paperwork it seems to me that they ought to be able to get the
reimbursements.
Ms. Criswell. If they have submitted all of the paperwork,
they should have been reimbursed. So I will look into those
personally and see what we can find out.
Senator Shaheen. Thank you. I appreciate that. And since I
chair the Small Business Committee, I would just like to add
for Administrator Guzman, thank you for all of the work that
you are doing. Small businesses, as we know, are the heart of
our economy throughout this country, particularly in New
Hampshire, and we have, as you pointed out, more than 10,000
homeowners and small business owners with approved loans who
are just waiting on our appropriation from this committee and
this Congress to get to work rebuilding. So thank you.
Chair Murray. Senator Shelley Moore Capito.
Senator Capito. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank all of you
for being here. I know it has been a long morning, but it is a
critically important.
Just as a statement, I will tell you, I hail from West
Virginia. Senator Manchin does as well. I think all of us, here
in--and I do not want to speak for everybody--but certainly for
me, I know if the disaster is not occurring in West Virginia,
it is occurring somewhere else, and it is going to occur in
West Virginia. So I have always been very supportive of making
sure that all of our communities across the country are able to
get the disaster relief and as quickly as possible. So put me
in that category of somebody who knows if not--if not for me,
it will be me, and it will be us.
Administrator Criswell, I would like to thank you for, in
your opening statement, you mentioned that nobody should be
discriminated against for their political affiliations, or
anything else, and so thank you for reinforcing that policy. It
is important. I would say if that particular FEMA employee had
come to West Virginia, we would not have gotten much help
because we had a lot of Trump signs, all throughout our State.
So thank you for that.
I was going to kind of call you into question on some of
the environmental review processes that have been going on. We
had a town in West Virginia that has been going over 2 years
trying to get this environmental review for something as simple
as a generator, a static security camera, or you know, basic
pre-disaster mitigation equipment, just the bureaucracies of
this. But I was just informed that they got their okay today.
So thank you for that. You can take credit for that.
On to drought--oh, well, let me go--let me stay with, with
you for a moment because I was the ranking member and the chair
at some point of the Homeland Security Subcommittee on
Appropriations. This is a perennial problem in terms, but how
many--can we help you and help FEMA as an organization take
some of these older disasters off of the books? Maybe figure
out a process where we work with our States and our localities,
obviously, there is going to be a funding issue there, that
causes you, so you do not have these backlogs and lags of
disasters that are still ongoing while you are trying to face
what you see in front of you. What kind of measures do you
think would help you do that, and would that be useful?
Ms. Criswell. Senator, I think, you know, we have seen a
number of disasters that have been ongoing for many years.
Senator Capito. Yeah.
Ms. Criswell. I mean, we still have some back to Hurricane
Katrina. One of the things that we have started doing is a
program that we are calling ``Validate As You Go'', part of the
delay in closing out some of these projects sometimes is after
they go through years of gathering the paperwork, doing the
rebuild, we do all of the closeout at the very end of the
project, and that can be time-consuming to go look at every
receipt, and every action that was taken along the way.
We have started to do that periodically and audit it along
the way so that way it speeds up the process at the end. And we
are starting to see real success with implementing this new way
of approaching disaster closeout, which we have just started
doing over the last few years.
Senator Capito. So you are closing out portions of the
disaster as you are moving it along?
Ms. Criswell. Yeah.
Senator Capito. Because there is no more----
Ms. Criswell. We are auditing it as we go along, and if we
find that they are meeting everything, then we do not have to
review every single submission, every receipt, at the closeout
phase of a project.
Senator Capito. Well, it seems to me you could enlist your
state and local partners, too, to be able to help you with some
of that work rather than diverting your workforce, who has the
immediate needs in these larger disasters. But we want to work
to make that process easier so you can close the books, and you
can--and can move forward. So anything we can do to help in
that would be appreciated.
I am going to talk about the drought just briefly, because
West Virginia really has been, we do not have a huge Ag
community, but it is very--but just some of the statistics are
quite startling: 90 percent of our soybean crop condition is in
poor or very poor condition, 100 percent of our hay crop is in
poor and very poor categories, and 97 percent of our soybean
crop is in--well, I already said that 97 percent of our soybean
is in poor or, or near-poor conditions. So you all, at Ag, have
been helping us as an office to reach out to our Ag community.
So I appreciate that.
The last question I have is: Apparently NOAA has an
Artificial Intelligence Mapping system, where they map on the
coastlines, what could be tracking impervious surfaces of
roadway, water runoff, and how, inundation modeling can help
save lives. But a lot of the country's been left out of this AI
modeling. I understand the coastal issues, but describing, as
Senator Manchin did, our terrain, we are very prone to
flooding.
So I do not know, Secretary Buttigieg, are you using
similar technology for mapping pre-disaster and water runoff so
that you can more accurately see where your vulnerabilities
are?
Secretary Buttigieg. I am not familiar with that particular
program, but we do have a number of partnerships with sister
agencies to try to get an understanding of any weather or
climate issues that we need to handle. I would segregate that
into two very separate types of operations: things like FAA
that need immediate real-time information, versus what we are
doing for the longer term with the infrastructure development
or response.
Senator Capito. Right.
Secretary Buttigieg. But happy to follow up and see what we
can do there.
Senator Capito. Well, this is a NOAA program. I do not know
if I mentioned that when I began, the descriptions of it.
And what about, Administrator Criswell; are you all
familiar with that AI model that is being used to map?
Ms. Criswell. Yeah. There is a number of models out there.
NASA has one, there is a, you know, several private sector
agencies that also have different models. All of these are
really important, because as we consider the impacts that these
communities are facing, what we want to be able to do is help
them understand what their future risk is going to be.
Senator Capito. Right.
Ms. Criswell. Because we obviously can see that we cannot
base it on historical risk. And so all of these different types
of technologies, and we are trying to incorporate some of our
own, but I think as we bring all of this together from the
private sector, from NASA, from NOAA, all of those different
technologies are going to really help us communicate, and help
communities understand and know their risk so they can make the
appropriate preparatory actions and plans to help protect their
citizens.
Senator Capito. Well, I appreciate that. And I will say
that we just signed a letter into requesting a disaster
declaration for West Virginia from Helene, it did not--you
know, did not get the news, and it did not--but that storm and
that water really affected all of Appalachia, even into the
areas of West Virginia. So I appreciate your attention on that.
Thank you all very much.
Chair Murray. Senator Van Hollen.
Senator Van Hollen. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I want to
take this opportunity to thank President Biden and his entire
team assembled here at the table. A special thanks to Secretary
Buttigieg for all your help immediately on the scene after that
disaster. Administrator Guzman, thank you and the SBA for
providing loans to businesses that were impacted.
We lost six good people that day on the bridge, and I think
everybody remembers the scenes of the Dali, the ship crashing
into the Key Bridge and its collapse, and of course it
collapsed right into the Patapsco River, which is the channel
to the Port of Baltimore.
So I do want to start by thanking the Unified Command,
Secretary Buttigieg, the Army Corps of Engineers, and everybody
from the Federal level who immediately helped, starting to
clear that channel to reopen the port so that thousands of
workers could get back to work, and small businesses that had
been terribly impacted by the closure of the port would have
the relief they needed. And we were able to get that port--
channel reopened in a very short period of time, relatively
speaking. So I want to thank everybody for their role on that.
And Secretary Buttigieg, thank you also for mentioning the
Key Bridge replacement. Right, so we have got the port open,
now we have got to replace the Key Bridge. And I am really
pleased at the President's proposal, $100 billion includes 100
percent funding for the Key Bridge. Yes, I heard Senator
Collins mention that any insurance or other proceeds that come
to the State of Maryland will be deducted from that. Yes, we
get that. We understand that. We support that.
But it is very important that we get this bridge rebuilt.
35,000 vehicles cross this bridge every day, so you can imagine
the congestion and loss of economic opportunity that has been
caused, and ongoing, because this bridge is no longer there.
I will say, and I heard Senator Capito talk about how West
Virginia had often been hit by natural disasters; Maryland has
too, of course, and we have always supported the rest of the
country. This has been ``all for one and one for all'', that
has been the motto of the State of Maryland. And so we are very
much hoping and we expect our colleagues from around the
country to support us in this hour of need.
I would point out that when the Minneapolis Bridge
collapsed back in 2007, it took only 5 days for Congress to
pass and for the President to sign legislation assuring that
they would be reimbursed 100 percent in terms of the cost of
replacing the bridge. The House, the Senate, the President,
within 5 days.
We are very grateful that we are already enrolled in the
Emergency Relief Program that covers 90 percent. But Mr.
Secretary, I have two questions for you. One is: I know the
proposal submitted by the President was not in Legislative Bill
form, but in order for Maryland to secure the 100 percent
change, we are going to need an authorization to do that. And
just want to hear from you again that the President supports
that. And if you could just talk about how important it is for
the entire country to increase the funding for the emergency
relief program.
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, thank you. And yes, to be clear,
the President, the Administration, completely support the 100
percent cost share, which would require legislation, in
addition to the funding that is part of the funding that we are
asking for today. The total event cost we estimate to be $1.75
billion. The first $60 million went against that in the quick
release funding that we turned around right away. That leaves
$1.69 billion, less the $350 million that we already know is
being recovered from insurance. That leaves $1.34 billion,
which is what is included in the supplemental.
More broadly, I think that while unique, catastrophic, and
we hope something of that type is never to be repeated again,
it is a reminder that a single disaster can have a greater than
$1 billion price tag. Right now, we have $119.6 million in the
entire account, which means we are very much one disaster away
from being completely out of funding. And it is why this
funding request covers the entire backlog from Helene and
Milton, to the Francis Scott Key Bridge replacement, to dozens
of other disasters that we are still paying for in dozens of
other States.
Senator Van Hollen. Thank you. And I want to thank my
colleague and partner, Senator Cardin, and our entire Maryland
delegation on a bipartisan basis, Senate and House has
introduced the Bridge Act to ensure that full 100 percent
ultimately. And I thank you, and of course, the President for
your support.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Chair Murray. Thank you.
Senator Peters.
Senator Peters. Thank you, Madam Chair. Before I get into
my questions for the witnesses, I want to highlight the
importance of funding the Rip and Replace Program to protect
broadband and telecommunication networks that are being damaged
by storms, and flooding, and other disasters. Right now,
broadband companies that are waiting on these dollars must rely
on Chinese equipment that poses a threat to our national
security, and their hands are tied from procuring new equipment
when the network goes down due to damage as a result of storms
or disasters.
And that is why I believe funding the Rip and Replace
shortfall, a bipartisan priority affecting rural broadband in
states all across the country, should be a priority as part of
this disaster relief package.
My first question, though, is for Administrator Criswell.
Ma'am, good to see you, Administrator, we worked together a lot
through my work on Homeland Security. And this year, FEMA
announced the second round of awards for the Safeguarding
Tomorrow's Revolving Loan Fund, which I created through a law
entitled Safeguarding Tomorrow through Ongoing Risk Mitigation
Act, the STORM Act, aptly named. And it allows FEMA to help
States and tribal governments set up low-cost revolving loan
funds that local governments can get to mitigate their risk.
So my question for you, Administrator, is can you discuss
why having this tool in our resilience funding toolbox is so
important; particularly in light of the disasters that we are
seeing across our country now and the increasing frequency?
UNIVERSAL DISASTER APPLICATION
Ms. Criswell. Yes, Senator Peters, I really appreciate your
leadership in this bill and helping to get this across the
finish line, because resilience and building resilience in our
communities has never been more important. But what we see is
some communities cannot come up with the cost share for FEMA
mitigation programs or other programs, or if they are using
their own funding to seed a project. The STORM Act gives them a
revolving loan fund to help start that project or meet a cost
share from a mitigation project so they can get this critical
work done.
These mitigation projects are not inexpensive, and so being
able to give them additional resources to help them envision
and get these projects off the ground are going to help them in
their ability to become stronger and withstand and reduce the
impacts from future storms.
Senator Peters. Great. Well, thank you. This next question
is for all of our witnesses. One of the most persistent
complaints about our disaster relief system that I hear is its
complexity and its fragmentation, and it makes it very
difficult for disaster survivors to navigate and receive the
aid that they so desperately need. They are faced, when they
are the survivor of a tragedy, with a house, needing housing,
and food, and all sorts of assistance, and yet they need to
fill out multiple applications.
Every agency has their own application, and you are telling
someone who is in a pretty desperate shape: Here are the six
different applications you need to fill out to deal with the
six different agencies. So I have authored a bill that has
gotten through the Senate, the Simplification Act that says
that if you are a victim of this type of disaster, you should
just fill out one form. This is pretty common sense. Fill out
one form and immediately have all of the folks who can be
helpful to you understand the extent of the problem for you,
the help that you need, and to be able to deliver that.
So basically, it would create a universal disaster
application, and I think it is in the best interest of disaster
survivors. I will tell you, when I talk about this, how this is
popular with the folks, when I talk about this in a public
meeting, I usually get applause. A lot of stuff I introduce, I
do not get applauses for, but this is just common sense, and we
need to pass this.
And I would like to have each of you just tell me if you
believe that creating a universal disaster application is
indeed in the best interest of survivors and will facilitate
them getting the help that they need. And I know each of you
are very anxious to provide, but how do we do it in a more
efficient way? We will start with you, Administrator, and work
down the dais.
Ms. Criswell. Thank you, Senator. I think anything we can
do to remove the barriers that people are facing to receive
assistance helps them on their road to recovery. And so it also
gives them the opportunity to apply for the recovery. We find
that if they have barriers, like applying multiple times, then
they will just stop. They will just give up. And so this type
of an effort really helps ease that burden and helps them get
into all of the programs that they are eligible for.
Senator Peters. I appreciate that, thank you.
Ms. Todman. Senator, if HUD's Disaster Recovery program is
finally authorized, then yes, we will be able to work very
closely with our colleagues to make sure it is a seamless
experience.
Senator Peters. Great; with a universal application, great.
Ms. Torres Small. Senator, thank you for talking about
flexibilities. It is one of the most important things about
disaster response, and I know that USDA has submitted multiple
suggestions for how we can increase flexibilities with the
authorities we have now. I also appreciate your effort to
create more authorities for us to expand those authorities and
make it so that, on the hardest day of someone's life they are
not having to navigate multiple forms.
We would like to work with you as we address also the
backend of that, which is all the computer systems that
currently work with our existing applications, because that
becomes a whole other side of implementation.
Senator Peters. Great.
Ms. Guzman. Senator, the SBA completely supports this
concept of ``no wrong door''. I will say that the great news is
that earlier this year, in March, FEMA and SBA cooperated
together, and FEMA took leadership in passing an individual
assistance change, which was transformative, which does get
applauses, and that is no longer will you be required to fill
out SBA's application to get assistance from FEMA.
That was traumatic for people who were forced to come to us
first, get denied, and then go to FEMA, which caused most of
the friction you are referencing. So we are pleased that that
no longer is the case.
SBA, of course, is in a unique situation in that I support
over 231 declarations, in addition to the 21 presidential that
I coordinate with these agencies with, and so while I support
``no wrong door'', I do not support a control where one Agency
controls that universal platform. I would prefer a platform
that would exist, that there is a backend solution across our
agencies to ensure a seamless experience for that disaster
survivor.
And so we are working closely with FEMA right now to try to
simplify the data sharing so that we can achieve that, and we
would be happy to provide technical assistance to make sure
that that language in the bill does not force us to work
through one Agency on a universal application, where we would
have no control to make minor changes and have quick
flexibility to best meet the needs of our businesses in
particular, but of course, all the homeowners that we support
as well. So we are happy to work with you on this to try to see
that through.
Senator Peters. Good, look forward to it.
Mr. Secretary.
Secretary Buttigieg. We are passionate about reducing the
number of pages and the number of steps in any of our
processes. It is why we have done things like the combined
notices of funding opportunity in some of our grant programs.
So without knowing all the details of this proposal, we would
certainly welcome a chance to work on anything that would help
simplify the process at the front end.
Senator Peters. Very good. Well, thank you.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Chair Murray. Thank you.
Senator Merkley, last but not least. Thank you for your
patience.
FOREST SERVICE DISASTER ESTIMATES
Senator Merkley. And thank you to the patience of our
witnesses. And my question is really to you, Deputy Secretary
Torres Small. The estimates that we have received for the
damage to infrastructure in the Forest Service is about $6.9
billion and an additional $3.1 billion for the National Parks,
the Fish and Wildlife Service, BLM (Bureau of Land Management).
Is that estimate about in the ballpark of what you have been
hearing?
Ms. Torres Small. The current submission that we provided
to OMB is $5.6 billion for the Forest Service, so ballpark, but
we should circle back on those numbers.
Senator Merkley. I think $5.6 was just Hurricane Helene.
There is an additional amount in those numbers, about $1.3 for
other damage?
Ms. Torres Small. Correct.
Senator Merkley. Okay. Thank you. So my estimates are about
right.
Ms. Torres Small. Correct.
Senator Merkley. So of that roughly $10 billion, and by the
way, that is 6-point--what you just referred to, that was just
the Forest Service, but then we have the damage to the
infrastructure in these other areas, National Park Service,
Fish and Wildlife, BLM; thus we end up with about $10 billion
of damage. How many billion dollars are in this bill to address
all that infrastructure damage on public lands?
Ms. Torres Small. So the current request does not include
that damage. It acknowledges that there is this outstanding
amount and commits to continuing to assess and provide the----
Senator Merkley. So the current request is zero? Okay, zero
out of $10 billion; that is really the point I wanted to drive
home. I really think it is completely unacceptable, and
possibly you might say to me, or others might say to me: Well,
there is this mirage on the horizon of a second supplemental.
Does anyone really think that that is going to happen? If we
have the political will to address these issues, it is going to
be addressed in this supplemental, and so I am encouraging
every possible effort.
In 2020, Oregon had really horrific damage from
catastrophic wildfires. My colleague was describing what
happened to Hawaii--Senator Schatz was--and Senator Padilla
could tell you what happened in Paradise, California, and other
fires in California. In 2020, we had six towns burned to the
ground, another six deeply damaged. I traveled 600 miles north
to south, south to north, never got out of the smoke. The ruins
were something like out of a war zone.
And the fiscal year '22 supplemental helped us. It helped
us with the roads and bridges. It helps us remove hazardous
fuels. It helped to revegetate burn areas. It helped restore
water systems. It set the foundation for restoring communities.
So thank you to all my colleagues who supported those funds in
fiscal year '22.
But today, the request we have before us ignores the
infrastructure on our public lands, and these disasters--
hurricanes, and wildfires, and flash floods, and landslides--
they do enormous damage, and we need to restore that damage.
Hurricane Helene destroyed or damaged 900 miles of roads
and bridges in North Carolina's National Forest, which the
community depends on for day-to-day transportation,
emergencies, evacuations, it caused dozens of landslides or
rockslides on the Blue Ridge Parkway, gravely damaging the
park. It wiped out or damaged more than 40 trestle bridges on
the Rails to Trails Virginia Creeper Trail, a major economic
driver in the southwest part of the State. Dozens of other
national parks, wildlife refuges, and national forests suffered
damages from the disasters over the last 2 years, damage in
Yosemite, and Sequoia, and Kings Canyon, Acadia, Death Valley,
Okefenokee Wildlife Refuge.
We have a long history of caring for our public lands, it
is carried in the heart of every American, but this bill fails
to honor that responsibility. Now, I was thinking back how in
fiscal year '22 the supplemental, we immediately addressed the
almost $1 billion of damage in Yellowstone. People will
remember the videos of houses falling into the river, and
floating down, and kind of key access, and we did the right
thing. We helped address the road system, the water system.
That is what we need to be doing now on this. If folks do
not have a picture of what I am talking about, I am talking
about buildings, roads, trestles, bridges, the communication
systems, the water systems, the recreation sites, the research
sites, and the trails. We must not say that it is okay to have
that devastation sit there unaddressed.
Thank you.
Chair Murray. Thank you. That will conclude our hearing for
today. And I want to thank everyone for joining us for this
really critical discussion. As is clear, people are hurting,
and it is crucial that we get them the help they need by
passing a bipartisan disaster supplemental. I will continue to
work with Vice Chair Collins and my colleagues on both sides of
the aisle to get that done and to wrap up our fiscal year '25
spending bills in a bipartisan way, consistent with our Senate
bills.
ADDITIONAL COMMITTEE QUESTIONS
Chair Murray. So for any Senators who wish to ask
additional questions, questions for the record will be due in 7
days, Wednesday, November 27th, by 5:00 p.m.
[The following questions were not asked at the hearing, but
were submitted to the Departments for response subsequent to
the hearing:]
Questions Submitted to Hon. Pete Buttigieg
Questions Submitted by Senator Lisa Murkowski
Question. Irrespective of Congressional action or inaction, how can
we improve DOT's collection of disaster impact needs in rural areas and
remote regions, like Western Alaska, which is not connected by roads
and has a very short construction season?
In places like Alaska, to address dire disaster impacts, agencies
like the Alaska Department of Transportation respond first to save
human life and property and figure out how to pay for it later. That is
the reality of operating in Alaska.
Answer. The Department recognizes that rural areas and remote
regions, like Western Alaska, may experience unique challenges in
responding to disaster impacts. Consistent with applicable statutes and
regulations, FHWA is flexible in its response and management of the
Emergency Relief (ER) program, owing to the many variables within ER,
such as the type of event, magnitude of damage, and capability of
agencies to respond.
Prior to the enactment of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law (BIL,
Public Law 117-58, enacted as the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs
Act), 23 U.S.C. 120(e)(1) provided that emergency repairs were eligible
for 100 percent Federal share when accomplished within 180 days of an
emergency event. Section 11107 of BIL amended 23 U.S.C. 120(e)(1) so
that emergency repairs are now eligible for 100 percent Federal funding
when accomplished within 270 days of an emergency event. Under 23
U.S.C. 120(e)(3), the 270-day period may be extended only due to the
inability of the applicant to access damaged facilities to evaluate the
damage and costs of repairs. Access restrictions can include, but are
not limited to:
--Roadways and bridges are impassable for an extended period;
--Another emergency event occurred preventing access; or
--The site is unsafe to access.
FHWA will continue to work to ensure that recipients of ER funding
are aware of disaster assessment and reporting timelines, and will
provide information to ER applicants about the possibilities to extend
timelines due to inability to access damaged facilities.
Question. How can we cut through red tape to ensure that aid is not
delayed because of backend accounting requirements about which costs
are attributable to which agency like we saw with Typhoon Merbok?
Answer. DOT agreed with a recommendation in a 2022 Government
Accountability Office (GAO) audit report \1\ calling for DOT to, ``in
consultation with the Recovery Support Function Leadership Group,
identify and take steps to better manage fragmentation between its
disaster recovery programs and other Federal programs.'' DOT currently
participates in the Recovery Support Function Leadership Group and
coordinates with FEMA and other Federal agencies, such as the US Army
Corps of Engineers. Recently, the FHWA Office of Infrastructure and the
FEMA Recovery Directorate initiated informal coordination efforts with
a goal of improving and harmonizing support for communities whose roads
and bridges are affected by disasters.
After Hurricane Helene, representatives from FEMA's Public
Assistance Program held an in- person meeting with FHWA personnel to
discuss how to better align FEMA's program for permanent repairs to
roadways with FHWA's Emergency Relief program. In addition, following
an FHWA request, FEMA is providing access to post-Helene aerial imagery
to better evaluate damages in remote areas for reimbursement through
FHWA's ER Program.
Question. Is there anything the agency can do administratively to
embrace something like ``advance construction'' concept for disaster
response, wherein an entity like our State DOT may address immediate
costs and have the flexibility to seek reimbursement for costs after
the fact?
Answer. The ER program provides limited initial ER funds for large
disasters quickly via ``quick release.'' Quick Release funds are
intended as a ``down payment'' to immediately provide funds for
emergency operations. Additionally, a State may use statutory authority
for ``advance construction'' in 23 U.S.C. 115 to initiate a project
that would otherwise be eligible under the ER program using non-Federal
funds while preserving eligibility for future Federal-aid funds. The
State may then convert the project to an ER project for reimbursement
with ER funds as those funds become available, assuming all ER program
requirements are met.
Question. I understand the focus on ``Build Back Better'', but as
we are seeing in Alaska, our projects are required to build back
substantially similar. How can DOT improve their process and policies
to allow our communities to actually better protect their
infrastructure against increasing extreme weather challenges when using
Federal funds from programs like PROTECT?
Answer. BIL amended the statutory authority for the ER program at
23 U.S.C. 125 to emphasize eligibility under ER of economically
justifiable improvements that mitigate the risk of recurring damage
from extreme weather, flooding, and other natural disasters.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ GAO, Disaster Recovery: Actions Needed to Improve the Federal
Approach, GAO-23-104956 (Nov. 15, 2022).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In November 2024, FHWA issued a memo entitled ``INFORMATION:
Incorporating Resilience Betterments into ER-Funded Projects.'' \2\ As
stated in that memo, within the ER program, improvements to damaged
facilities are often accomplished through betterments. Betterments are
``[a]dded protective features, such as rebuilding of roadways at a
higher elevation or the lengthening of bridges, or changes which modify
the function or character of a highway facility from what existed prior
to the disaster or catastrophic failure, such as additional lanes or
added access control.'' \3\ A resilience betterment is one intended to
help mitigate the risk of recurring damage from future hazard events,
such as replacing a culvert with a bridge to protect against flooding.
Under the ER program, betterments are eligible for ER funding only
where there is clear economic justification that the betterment will
prevent future recurring damage. An economic justification must weigh
the cost of the betterment against the risk of eligible recurring
damage and the cost of future repair. Only costs and benefits to the ER
program are considered in the analysis. In some cases, resilience may
be improved by building to current standards; for purposes of the ER
program this is not considered a betterment and does not require an
economic justification. If a betterment is not economically justified
for ER funding, the applicant instead may fund the improvement from
regular apportioned Federal-aid highway funds, such as National Highway
Performance Program, Surface Transportation Block Grant Program, or
Promoting Resilient Operations for Transformative, Efficient, and Cost-
saving Transportation (PROTECT) Formula funds. The applicant may also
apply for PROTECT Discretionary Grant funds. While some types of
PROTECT grants require an economic justification, FHWA may consider
additional benefits in the economic analysis.
The BIL established the PROTECT Program to help make surface
transportation more resilient to natural hazards, including sea level
rise, flooding, extreme weather events, and other natural disasters.
The PROTECT Formula Program is designed to provide flexibility to
States in deciding how to use the funding to best meet their needs,
whether it is for planning activities or construction projects to
improve the resilience of transportation infrastructure that will
ultimately strengthen communities. The PROTECT Discretionary Grant
Program funds projects that improve the resilience of the surface
transportation system, including highways, public transportation,
ports, and intercity passenger rail. For the PROTECT Discretionary
Grant Program, like the PROTECT Formula Program, funds can only be used
for activities that are primarily for the purpose of resilience or
inherently resilience related. A vast range of projects can be eligible
under the PROTECT Program--including highway and transit projects,
bicycle and pedestrian facilities, and port facilities, including
facilities that connect to other modes and improve evacuations or
disaster relief.
The Department will continue to work to ensure all communities
nationwide are aware of the programs and tools available to them to
make their infrastructure more resilient against increasing extreme
weather challenges.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\2\ https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/specialfunding/er/241113.pdf
\3\ 23 CFR 668.103.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
______
Question Submitted to Hon. Xochitl Torres Small
Question Submitted by Vice Chair Susan M. Collins
Question. Deputy Secretary Torres Small, there is no better
reminder of the ever-growing fire season, than wildfires in New York
and New Jersey--more than halfway into November. These wildfires,
coupled with ongoing drought conditions, are making our forests even
more vulnerable to invasive species.
In the 1970s-80s, during the last major outbreak of the spruce
budworm, forests in Maine and eastern Canada saw nearly 136 million
acres of spruce and fir decimated by these insects.
Spruce budworm outbreaks typically occur in 30 to 60 year cycles,
and for the past several years, Maine has been encroached by millions
of acres of defoliation in neighboring Canada caused by the spruce
budworm.
(a) How are the department and the Forest Service working to get
ahead of a potential spruce budworm outbreak?
Answer. The Forest Service will continue to assist Maine in
addressing their forest health concerns through our technical and
financial assistance programs. The Forest Service has provided
financial support to the Spruce Budworm Lab at the University of Maine
which supports population monitoring, risk assessment, and spruce
budworm management strategies for landowners. Additionally, the Forest
Health Protection Director and National Entomologist have met with the
principals of National Alliance of Forest Owners and its member from
Pingree Industries, and the Maine State Forester, current President of
the National Association of State Foresters at the end of October to
discuss the status and trends of the outbreak, possible steps forward,
and our authorities to work with and through the State of Maine.
______
Questions Submitted to Hon. Adrianne Todman
Questions Submitted by Senator Lisa Murkowski
Question. In 2022, Typhoon Merbok impacted a large portion of
Western Alaska damaging infrastructure in 47 communities. Since then,
many communities have been hit again by additional devastating storms
and weather, adding to the list of impacted infrastructure and homes.
In Alaska, building costs increase overnight and many of our
communities do not have the capacity to quickly recover. While FEMA is
a great initial response, they're not able to rebuild homes and cover
all losses. HUD's Community Development Block Grant--Disaster Relief
(CDBG-DR) can help with rebuilding and recovery with Presidentially
declared disasters. However, many of the disasters that hit our rural
communities are too small-scale to receive a Presidential declaration.
(a) How can FEMA and HUD work closer with rural communities
throughout Alaska who are reeling from small-scale disasters caused by
floods, fires, and storms who do not have access to CDBG-DR funding?
(b) What additional Federal disaster resources can be utilized to
assist rural communities in Alaska?
Answer. Currently, HUD works closely with FEMA and the US
Department of Agriculture (USDA) to identify existing Federal resources
that can used in rural communities across the country. For example, HUD
and USDA provides data to FEMA about existing housing options within
the HUD and USDA -assisted housing stock. HUD and USDA also work to
ensure that residents of HUD and USDA assisted housing units have safe
and viable housing options after large- and small-scale disasters.
Alaska may reallocate existing annually allocated HUD funding from
Community Development Block Grant and Home Investment Partnerships
funding. Additionally, ICDBG-Imminent Threat (ICDBG-IT) funds are
available for Indian Tribes and Alaskan Native villages, specifically
targeted to areas that are not Presidentially declared, though HUD
acknowledges the limits of ICDBG-IT.
FEMA Response: FEMA coordinates all Recovery Support Functions
(RSF) after a Presidentially declared disaster and is the lead agency
for the Community Assistance (CA) RSF. Post disaster the CA RSF aids
local and Tribal governments in building their capabilities to
effectively plan for and manage recovery and engage the whole community
in the recovery planning process. The CA RSF does this by providing
Just-in-Time Recovery Management Training, Recovery Planning Technical
Assistance, and by working directly with community leaders to
developing local partnerships, community engagement strategies, and to
develop local recovery management capacity. The CA RSF works closely
with the Housing RSF to share data, align outreach, and identify
additional resources for impacts communities across all impacted
sectors. If an Alaskan community does not receive a Presidential
disaster declaration FEMA can provide coordination, advisement, and
resource identification support via the Region X Interagency
Coordination Branch.
FEMA's Individual Assistance (IA) programs offer critical support
to disaster-affected communities, including in rural Alaska. The
attached IA Programs Fact Sheet outlines the resources available,
including assistance for housing, personal property, and other
disaster-related needs. These programs are designed to work in
coordination with state, Tribal, and local efforts, as well as other
Federal resources, to ensure rural communities have the support they
need to recovery and build resilience.
Question. The Indian Community Development Block Grant (ICDBG)
imminent threat program, which is a subset of the broader CDBG program,
has the potential to assist rural communities in Alaska who need to
rebuild their communities after small scale disasters. These small-
scale disasters can devastate our small communities in rural Alaska,
but do not receive a Presidential disaster declaration and are
therefore ineligible for the CDBG-DR program. Unfortunately, these
incidents happen frequently in rural Alaska. From a fire last spring in
Kivalina which destroyed two community buildings, to a fire destroying
the school in the village of Stebbins last summer, these incidents
leave remote communities in Alaska reeling and in need of immediate
assistance.
(a) While these communities would be eligible to receive support
through the ICDBG-IT program, unfortunately, the program has a cap of
$450,000 per grant. This funding is not enough to complete construction
on one home burnt down in rural Alaska, let alone respond to the needs
of a of a whole community. I've been told that this cap is not in
statute or regulation, but a policy decision made by HUD. Do you commit
to looking at this barrier and others which are preventing Alaska
Native communities from ICDBG-IT grants?
Answer. We commit to looking into these barriers and have already
begun to do so. The ICDBG-IT program is a critical resource for Tribal
communities impacted by disasters and other emergencies. The program is
often the main source of disaster recovery for smaller remote Native
Alaskan communities impacted by disasters that do not receive a
Presidential disaster declaration.
To that end, HUD conducted Tribal consultation on this very issue
recently. Tribal commenters uniformly recommended that HUD increase the
current grant caps. Accordingly, we are now exploring revisions to the
guidance and are considering how updates to these caps might enhance
grantmaking to small communities impacted by disasters and facing other
imminent threats to public safety.
HUD also conducted Tribal consultation on the larger ICDBG program
in 2024 and is in the process of developing a proposed rule that will
modernize and streamline program requirements. We are considering
making improvements to the ICDBG-IT program as part of this planned
rulemaking. We look forward to working with you to ensure that the
ICDBG program continues to have a positive impact on Tribal
communities.
Question. During the hearing, Deputy Secretary Todman noted that
Alaska fisheries would have access to disaster relief through the CDBG-
DR grant. However, fishery disaster declarations are made by the
Secretary of Commerce under the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation
and Management Act and/or Interjurisdictional Fisheries Act, not the
President under the Stafford Act. How can Alaska fishermen access the
CDBG-DR or additional relief from HUD as suggested by the Deputy
Secretary?
Answer. Deputy Secretary Todman's comment addressed Alaska's
ability to use CDBG-DR funds, once appropriated by Congress and
allocated by HUD, to address unmet needs in the recovery of fisheries
infrastructure and assistance to fishers. CDBG-DR funds have been used
for similar purposes by other States when determined by those States to
support a critical recovery need.
______
[The following questions were submitted to the Agencies,
but the questions were not answered by press time.]
Questions Submitted to Hon. Isabel Guzman
Questions Submitted by Senator Tammy Baldwin
Question. Small businesses that rely on snow had a tough time
during last year's mild winter. Some were forced to close or cut staff
due to the lack of visitors who are usually drawn in by seasonal
recreation, such as snowmobiling, cross-country skiing, snowshoeing,
and ice fishing. And yet, under the Small Business Act, warm winters
that produce low to no snow accumulation are not included in the
definition of disaster. Along with Senators Klobuchar, Stabenow and
Peters, I introduced the Winter Recreation Small Business Recovery Act
to update the Small Business Act and make small businesses eligible for
this lifeline during mild winters with below average snowfall of snow
cover.
The Senate Appropriations Committee recognizes this problem and
included report language in the FY25 FSGG Appropriations bill noting
that there are small businesses that are experiencing warm winters and
low to no snow but are not qualifying for EIDL or are being declined
because the declarations authorize assistance for small business
concerns affected by drought but not for small businesses affected by
low snow accumulation.
(a) What is SBA is already doing to assist small businesses that
rely on snow during mild winters? Please describe any executive or
legislative recommendations you have for SBA and Congress to consider.
Question. Earlier this year, Governor Evers and I worked with SBA
to expand eligibility and extend the application deadlines for
Wisconsin businesses to the EIDL program if they suffered losses due to
our unusually mild winter, which lacked Wisconsin's typical snowfall in
many areas of the state. Eligibility was extended to small businesses
under open drought disasters declared by the Secretary of Agriculture.
(a) How many small businesses in Wisconsin applied for EIDL loans
under this expanded eligibility, and how many loans were approved? How
many small businesses total, including in other States, applied for and
were approved for EIDL loans under this expanded eligibility?
Please provide total local volume, average loan amount and subsidy
cost, as well as any information about administrative costs to support
lending for small businesses that received a loan under this expanded
eligibility related to drought disasters.
______
Question Submitted by Vice Chair Susan M. Collins
Question. Last winter, Maine was hit by a series of devastating
storms that left severe damage to our State's coastline and working
waterfronts, which are home to Maine's iconic lobster industry.
Harpswell Harbormaster Paul Plummer described the damage as some of the
worst he had ever seen.
(a) How can the Small Business Administration better support unique
small businesses like lobstermen and the working waterfronts that
support them after a disaster?
______
Questions Submitted to Hon. Deanne Criswell
Question Submitted by Senator Tammy Baldwin
Question. The Building Resilient Infrastructure and Communities
(BRIC) program has not yet ensured that all States, communities, and
Tribes, particularly inland States, are able to compete for mitigation
funds in order to take the steps needed to protect their communities
from future severe weather events like flooding. While the program's
goals to strengthen the resiliency of States, territories, Tribes, and
communities are commendable, inland States like Wisconsin continue to
have concerns that FEMA's technical criteria takes a narrow approach to
recognizing resilience efforts.
The current criteria recognize certain mitigation practices,
particularly those within States, territories, and Tribes that have
adopted recent versions of the International Building Code (IBC) and
the International Residential Code (IRC), while ignoring other
categories like state floodplain management practices that go above
Federal minimums established in the National Flood Insurance Program
(NFIP), participation in the Community Rating System (CRS), and other
important aspects of comprehensive state mitigation programs.
Although FEMA made some changes to its technical criteria in its
latest notice of funding opportunity, and the most recent round of
awards did contain more inland States than in previous rounds, inland
communities and floodplain managers remain concerned about being at a
disadvantage to compete.
(a) What is FEMA doing to address the geographic concerns of inland
States for the next round of BRIC awards? Please describe any
limitations in the program's criteria or recommendations you have to
ensure inland communities are competitive for future rounds.
______
Questions Submitted by Senator Lisa Murkowski
Question. Administrator Criswell, I have the same type of question
for you. We are happy to see the funds unmet need articulated but I'm
eager to see how we can institute a more dynamic response.
(a) How can we expedite the collection of impact surveys and damage
assessments in remote regions like Alaska?
(b) Does FEMA have the authority to delegate the collection of this
data to a State or Tribal entity that is first on the scene in order to
expedite the process?
Following a disaster, many factors are at play as local, State, and
Federal recovery begins. We're seeing this most recently in Alaska
following a fall storm and flooding that hit Kotzebue and our Western
communities in late October. While the City of Kotzebue and the state
have declared disasters, FEMA can't be on the ground until after
Thanksgiving to assess damage and the need for a Federal disaster
declaration. All the while, snow is falling on Kotzebue, communities in
the region are freezing over, the borough and local entities have moved
forward with debris removal and cleanup, and outstanding questions of
where reimbursement for these activities comes from remain. How can we
ensure communities have their worries about funding needs put to ease
and encourage them to move forward with recovery projects and
activities, with the understanding that potential reimbursement is
coming down the road?
______
Questions Submitted by Senator Bill Hagerty
On September 27, 2024, my home state was severely impacted by
Hurricane Helene. Historic levels of rainfall and life-threatening
flash flooding caused by this natural disaster was a once-a-millennium
level event in Northeast Tennessee. Preliminary estimates from the
Tennessee Emergency Management Agency suggest that, in the State of
Tennessee alone, rebuilding will cost billions-without factoring in the
amount of economic loss, thousands of jobs impacted, and most
importantly, the 17 Tennesseans that tragically lost their lives.
As Tennesseans continue the long road to recovery, it is imperative
that Congress provide the resources necessary for a swift recovery.
Question. On October 25, 2024, Tennessee Governor Bill Lee sent
President Biden and FEMA a letter requesting additional resources,
which would bring Tennessee in line with what has already been approved
for other States impacted by Hurricane Helene. The letter in reference
is attached to this document for your review.
(a) Administrator Criswell, will you review this letter and commit
to responding to Governor Lee's requests? If so, when can Governor Lee
expect a response?
(b) Governor Lee submitted this request nearly a month ago, is
there a reasonable explanation as to why it's taking Tennessee longer
than expected to be approved for this request?
Question. As you are aware, FEMA's Shelter and Service Program
(SSP) provides financial support for general services and resettlement
to noncitizen migrants following their release.
(a) How many FEMA full-time employees and contractors are currently
utilized to administer SSP?
(b) Since 2022, over $1 billion has been appropriated to FEMA's
SSP. Given the severity of Hurricane Helene and Milton, would you agree
that SSP staff resources, funding, and time should have been re-
prioritized for disaster relief and disaster mitigation for American
citizens? If not, please explain your reasoning.
(c) Do you believe that FEMA's SSP program, which provides free
food, housing, and transportation to illegal aliens, encourages more
illegal immigration? Why or why not?
CONCLUSION OF HEARING
Chair Murray. The committee stands adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 1:09 p.m., Wednesday, November 20, the
hearing was concluded, and the committee was recessed, to
reconvene subject to the call of the Chair.]
[all]