[Senate Hearing 118-584]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                        S. Hrg. 118-584

                    ENSURING AFFORDABLE & ACCESSIBLE
                   MEDICATIONS: EXAMINING COMPETITION
                    IN THE PRESCRIPTION DRUG MARKET

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE
                               
                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                              MAY 21, 2024

                               __________

                          Serial No. J-118-66

                               __________

         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
         
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                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                   RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois, Chair
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island     LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina, 
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota                 Ranking Member
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware       CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      JOHN CORNYN, Texas
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              MICHAEL S. LEE, Utah
CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey           TED CRUZ, Texas
ALEX PADILLA, California             JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
JON OSSOFF, Georgia                  TOM COTTON, Arkansas
PETER WELCH, Vermont                 JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
LAPHONZA BUTLER, California          THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
                                     MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee
             Joseph Zogby, Chief Counsel and Staff Director
      Katherine Nikas, Republican Chief Counsel and Staff Director
                           
                           
                           C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page

Durbin, Hon. Richard J...........................................     1
Graham, Hon. Lindsey O...........................................     3

                               WITNESSES

Feldman, William.................................................     7
    Prepared statement...........................................    42
    Responses to written questions...............................   128
Mitchell, David..................................................    11
    Prepared statement...........................................    54
    Responses to written questions...............................   132
Mossoff, Adam....................................................     6
    Prepared statement...........................................    72
    Responses to written questions...............................   135
Rai, Arti........................................................     4
    Prepared statement...........................................    94
    Responses to written questions...............................   151
Ulrich, Jocelyn..................................................     9
    Prepared statement...........................................   100
    Responses to written questions...............................   153

                                APPENDIX

Items submitted for the record...................................    41


 
                    ENSURING AFFORDABLE & ACCESSIBLE
                   MEDICATIONS: EXAMINING COMPETITION
                   IN THE PRESCRIPTION DRUG MARKET

                              ----------                              


                         TUESDAY, MAY 21, 2024

                              United States Senate,
                                Committee on the Judiciary,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in Room 
226, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Richard J. Durbin, 
Chair of the Committee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Durbin [presiding], Whitehouse, 
Klobuchar, Coons, Hirono, Booker, Ossoff, Welch, Butler, 
Graham, Grassley, Cornyn, Kennedy, and Tillis.

         OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD J. DURBIN, 
           A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

    Chair Durbin. This hearing of the Senate Judiciary 
Committee will come to order. Today the Committee will hear 
from a range of experts about the cost of prescription drugs in 
America. Americans pay the highest prescription drug prices in 
the world, nearly three times what people in other developed 
countries pay for common medications. Take the cancer drug 
Keytruda, which has helped extend former President Jimmy 
Carter's life. It has an annual list price of more than 
$190,000 in the United States. In Germany, the exact same drug, 
made by the same company, costs $89,000. Jardiance--we can all 
visualize--excuse me.
    Senator Graham. He's on a roll.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Grassley.
    Voice. Give 'em hell, Grassley.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Graham. I've had it, too--whatever he's saying.
    Chair Durbin. I'm with Grassley. Sorry. Jardiance--you can 
all visualize the dancing lady in the yellow dress ad--a 
medicine used to treat type 2 diabetes--retails for more than 
$700 in the United States; $150 in Canada. The exact same drug. 
Prices just keep going up. In 2022, drug manufacturers raised 
the prices of more than 1,200 medications by an average--
average--of 32 percent, 4 times the rate of inflation.
    The poster child for high drug prices is insulin. It was 
discovered 100 years ago by Canadian researchers who 
surrendered their patent rights for the sum total of $1 because 
they believed nobody should profit from this lifesaving drug. 
The same thing is true of Jonas Salk and the vaccine that we 
use for polio. I remember that as a kid. He surrendered his 
patent rights to that drug, too, because it was so important. 
When Eli Lilly launched its insulin product, Humalog, in 1999, 
a vial cost a modest $21. Over the next 20 years, Eli Lilly 
raised the price of Humalog more than 2 dozen times, with the 
cost ultimately reaching $330 for that same $21 vial. While the 
historic Inflation Reduction Act capped the price of insulin at 
$35 a month for Medicare, many patients are still paying 
inflated prices for a century-old drug.
    The pharmaceutical industry is going to tell you that high 
prescription drug prices are the cost of innovation and point 
to billions of dollars in research and development. In fact, a 
government agency financed by American taxpayers, the National 
Institutes of Health, plays an important role in innovation and 
research. NIH funding contributed to 99 percent of all new 
drugs approved by FDA between 2010-2019, with $187 billion in 
taxpayer-funded research benefiting 354 of 356 new drugs. NIH 
is part of the solution. And too often, the prices charged by 
Big Pharma do not reflect a scientific advancement. Rather, 
they're the result of skilled lawyers manipulating the patent 
system and skirting our Nation's competition laws.
    Take the blockbuster drug Humira, which AbbVie introduced 
in 2002. For more than 20 years, the company exploited 
intellectual property laws to build a thicket of 165 patents 
that allowed Humira to avoid competition. The result: $20.7 
billion in revenue to AbbVie in 2021 alone and over 200 billion 
in revenue over Humira's 20-plus years of exclusivity. These 
are massive profitable drugs. I asked Blue Cross Blue Shield in 
Chicago, why are premiums going up so fast? The number one 
cause: these high-priced prescription drugs. Humira is not 
unique. A recent study found that the top 10 bestselling drugs 
in 2021 had a combined 1,429 patent applications filed, 72 
percent of which were filed after the FDA approved the drug for 
sale.
    You know what's going on if you even have a beginner course 
in this business. The patent system is being manipulated and 
used by their attorneys to extend the patents' life to avoid 
competition, generics, and bringing down the cost. These 
blockbuster drugs were covered by an average of 42 active 
patents. The FTC recently highlighted another page in Big 
Pharma's anticompetitive playbook when it challenged more than 
400 patents as improperly listed in the FDA Orange Book. By 
listing these patents on inhalers, EpiPens, weight loss drugs, 
and more, their manufacturers delayed generic competition and 
padded profits.
    The Committee has taken leadership in addressing Big 
Pharma's abuses. Last year, we unanimously reported five 
bipartisan bills that address issues ranging from 
anticompetitive pay-for-delay agreements and sham citizen 
petitions to patent thickets and product problems. This 
includes my bill with Senators Tillis, Coons, and Grassley to 
improve information sharing between the FDA and the U.S. Patent 
Office. This hearing will try to make it clear that our work is 
not done. We have things to do. Ask the American people what 
they think about this issue. You know what you're going to 
hear.
    We see an average of nine ads a day for drugs on 
television. You cannot escape them. God only knows where else 
the advertising's going. How many countries in the world allow 
direct-to-consumer advertising for drugs? Two: the United 
States and New Zealand. New Zealand, for God's sake. The only 
two countries in the world that allow this kind of advertising. 
Why do we do it? So that we can spell Xarelto and go to a 
doctor's office and say, I think I need a Xarelto to get well 
again and to skip through fields of flowers. Many doctors, 
instead of taking the time to argue a reason for a generic drug 
or no drug, instead prescribe these drugs, and as a 
consequence, the cost of medicine and health care goes up and 
up and up, and the hard-to-justify profits continue.
    Before I turn to my Ranking Member, here, I want to 
acknowledge Senator Welch's interest in this hearing and this 
issue. When he first came to the Committee, we sat down and 
talked about his Subcommittee assignments, and he told me that 
this is one issue he wanted to focus on. So, at some point in 
the hearing this morning, I'll be surrendering the gavel to 
him, to continue this hearing. Thank you for being here, 
Senator. Senator Graham.

         OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, 
        A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA

    Senator Graham. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, we've acted in 
the past unanimously to--there seems to be two lanes here: 
patent abuse, changing the patent in a small way, to extend it, 
delaying generic entry into the market. Every day they can keep 
the patent going and keep the generic out of the drugstore is a 
good day for them. The other is countries like Canada, same 
drug, a lot lower in cost. There's two ways to deal with it, I 
guess. What I'd like to do is let countries know that most of 
these drugs are developed in the United States, and the drug 
company has a right to get its money back. If a foreign country 
is basically subsidizing a drug, putting a burden on the 
American consumer to have to pay a higher price, I think that's 
an unfair trade practice. So, I'd like to go down that road.
    The bottom line: This is social media all over again. We 
pass all these bills, we have a common view of the problem, and 
nothing ever happens. So, Wednesday, we're going to challenge 
the Senate to take up some of the social media reforms that we 
have reported out of this Committee unanimously. I'd like to 
put this in that same bucket. I mean, we're about as diverse a 
collected group of people you could find in the Senate, and 
count me in. Count me in for, like, challenging the patent 
system. Count me in for trying to find ways to help the 
American consumer versus people in other countries.
    I'm very open minded about stopping abuse. What I don't 
want to do is kill the goose that laid the golden egg. I don't 
want to create a system where we stop developing new drugs that 
enrich our lives. I think everybody who spends money like--you 
know, it's like drilling for oil. Sometimes you have a dry 
hole, and you just--you know, you write that off. The goal is 
to enhance medical science and deal with sheer greed, for lack 
of a better word. This has to stop. I don't mind you getting 
your money back. I want you to make a profit. But the idea of 
playing games with patents needs to stop.
    And I'm more open minded about the advertising than I've 
ever been, and, I mean, I see these ads; I don't know. Why do I 
need to know that? I mean, why can't I trust my doctor to--if a 
generic works, it works. So, let's work together, and when we 
pass something out of the Committee, let's go to the floor and 
challenge the Senate to let it go. So, this is a good hearing. 
I'm glad you're doing it.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks. Today we're going to welcome a 
consensus panel of five witnesses, who I'll introduce. Arti Rai 
is the Elvin Latty Distinguished Professor of Law and Co-
Director of Center for Innovation at Duke. She is an 
internationally recognized expert in intellectual property law, 
innovation policy, administrative law, and health law. Adam 
Mossoff is a professor of law at Antonin Scalia Law School, 
where his research focuses on the theoretical justification for 
and historical protection of patents and other intellectual 
property rights as private property rights secured to inventors 
and creators.
    Dr. Will Feldman is a pulmonologist, intensivist, and 
health services researcher at Harvard Medical School and 
Brigham and Women's Hospital. His research focuses on drug 
pricing, FDA regulation, pharmaceutical policy, and COPD 
outcomes. Joceyln Ulrich is the vice president of policy and 
research at PhRMA, Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of 
America. At PhRMA, she leads the team responsible for policy 
analysis and research. David Mitchell, president and founder of 
Patients for Affordable Drugs--a patient advocacy organization 
focused on making prescription drug prices affordable for every 
person. He is a patient with incurable but treatable blood 
cancer. He depends on drugs costing hundreds of thousands of 
dollars a year.
    So, I'd ask all the witnesses to please stand first for the 
administration of the oath. Please raise your right hand.
    [Witnesses are sworn in.]
    Chair Durbin. Let the record reflect that the witnesses did 
better than the administrator of the oath and answered in the 
affirmative. So, we'll start with Professor Rai.

 STATEMENT OF ARTI RAI, ELVIN R. LATTY DISTINGUISHED PROFESSOR 
            OF LAW, DUKE LAW, DURHAM, NORTH CAROLINA

    Professor Rai. Thank you, Chair Durbin, Ranking Member 
Graham, and Members of the Senate Judiciary Committee for the 
invitation to testify. I've worked on drug competition issues 
for many decades. My research is funded by nonprofit 
foundations and government agencies only. Today, I will discuss 
three aspects of the challenge, all of which relate to patents 
of dubious validity. Fortunately, dubious validity can be 
addressed through surgical responses. We need, first, greater 
coordination between the PTO and the FDA; second, limits on 
patent assertion when the patent is an obvious variant of a 
patent that has already been found obvious; and, third, to 
ensure the continued vitality of the Patent Trial and Appeals 
Board.
    Let's begin with greater interagency coordination. Many of 
you have rightly been concerned about applicant statements to 
the FDA that are highly relevant to patent validity but that 
are nonetheless never brought to the attention of the PTO. 
These submissions can take the form of comments made or 
statements made to the FDA that are flatly inconsistent with 
those made to the PTO. That was the scenario in Belcher v. 
Hospira, a 2021 case in which the behavior was so egregious 
that the Federal Circuit found a Federal--excuse me, found a 
Belcher executive guilty of inequitable conduct.
    But my research has shown that the problem of incomplete 
information flow to the PTO is much more systemic. For example, 
manufacturing process patents represent by far the largest 
category of patents asserted against would-be-biosimilar 
competitors. Nicholson Price and I have shown that over 70 
percent of these assertions involves patents with a priority 
filing date of more than 1 year after the originator product 
was marketed. For such late-filed patents, longstanding Supreme 
Court case law makes it clear that patent applicants should 
inform the PTO of commercial use that is related to or 
identical to the process that they seek to patent.
    That is true even if--or perhaps especially if--the use is 
secret. The reason is straightforward. A firm that relies on 
secrecy for commercial advantage should not subsequently be 
able to extend its exclusivity further by securing a patent. 
The patent system is supposed to be about information that is 
disclosed, not kept secret. Unfortunately, applicants do not 
routinely disclose prior commercial use to the PTO; however, 
the information is known to the FDA, and therefore it is part 
of the executive branch's set of information. It is simply 
siloed. We all know about agency siloing.
    One reason may be agencies' legitimate awareness of the 
need to maintain trade secrecy. This is very legitimate, but I 
think that the congressional push led by Senator Durbin is 
exactly what is needed to overcome agency reluctance. The 
Senate's Patent Agency--Interagency Coordination and 
Improvement Act--excuse me--sponsored by Chair Durbin 
recognizes that information flow from the FDA to the PTO is 
perfectly consistent with trade secrecy. The PTO can also help 
the FDA. Recently, the FTC has been active in calling out 
patents that are improperly listed on the Orange Book. But the 
FTC has to do its work very late in the day. Jorge Contreras 
and I have argued that the PTO could nip the problem in the bud 
by helping FDA ensure that irrelevant patents are never listed.
    Another problem relates to terminal disclaimers filed by 
patent applicants to overcome examination rejections for 
obviousness over a prior patent they hold. Simply put, a 
disclaimer filing shows that the patent applicant lacks 
confidence that its application is nonobvious relative to its 
prior patent. Disclaimer patent--terminal disclaimers, excuse 
me, are a big deal. A recent study by Dr. William Feldman and 
his co-authors found that 48 percent of patents asserted 
against biosimilar competitors contain terminal disclosures. 
The PTO has recently proposed a carefully crafted rule to 
address this issue; however, the agency's rulemaking authority 
in this area might be overly narrow, and I believe a very 
useful revision to the patent statute would calibrate PTO's 
rulemaking authority in this area and harmonize it with that 
given to the PTO over the PTAB.
    Speaking of the PTAB, there the answer is simple. Keep up 
the good work. My data show that the PTAB is doing an excellent 
job and it does not need to be interfered with. Thank you, and 
I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Professor Rai appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Professor Rai. Professor Mossoff.

          STATEMENT OF ADAM MOSSOFF, PROFESSOR OF LAW,

ANTONIN SCALIA LAW SCHOOL, GEORGE MASON UNIVERSITY, ARLINGTON, 
                            VIRGINIA

    Professor Mossoff. Thank you. Chair Durbin, Ranking Member 
Graham, and Members of the Committee, thank you for this 
opportunity to speak with you today about how policy-driven 
arguments concerning patents have sown confusion and impeded 
evidence-based policymaking on drug prices. The causes of drug 
prices are complex and multidimensional, if only because the 
U.S. health care system is incredibly complex, itself. Yet, 
despite this, professors and policy activists have reduced this 
legal, institutional, and scientific complexity to a single 
cause: patents. They blame patents as the primary, if not the 
sole, cause of drug prices today. This is profoundly mistaken.
    It's impossible to comment on the incredible number of 
legal and policy activities in all three branches of government 
today affecting drug patents, and so for the sake of brevity, I 
will focus on the misinterpretation and misuse of two Federal 
laws by those seeking to impose price controls on innovative 
drugs and other health care inventions, in a misguided effort 
to lower drug prices. The first law is the Bayh-Dole Act, and 
the second is a law known as Section 1498. Now, neither the 
Bayh-Dole Act nor Section 1498 are price control laws. This is 
clear in their text, function, and in their past interpretation 
by courts and agencies.
    Congress enacted the Bayh-Dole Act in 1980 to promote 
commercialization of inventions that result from some upstream 
Federal funding. The law reaffirmed the fundamental principle 
in American patent law: All inventors should be secured in the 
fruits of their productive labors with a property right, a 
patent. Now, before the Bayh-Dole Act, the Federal Government 
actually ignored this fundamental principle and instead claimed 
ownership in inventions resulting from Federal funding. It 
offered nonexclusive licenses to any and all comers. As a 
result, there was no commercial development of these 
inventions.
    The Bayh-Dole Act, importantly, changed that policy. It 
reaffirmed that inventors can obtain patents and then assign or 
license them to marketplace actors regardless of who funds and 
how much funding is received in the initial research. The 
result has been an explosion in new products and services, from 
new cancer drugs to the Google search algorithm to the honey 
crisp apple and so many others. Today, the Biden administration 
proposes to turn the Bayh-Dole Act on its head. A proposed new 
regulatory guideline twists the Bayh-Dole Act into a price 
control law in which funding agencies can license any resulting 
patent to a private company simply to drive down prices. This 
returns the U.S. back to the pre-Bayh-Dole era of de facto 
government ownership and nonexclusive licensing.
    But the Bayh-Dole Act is not a price control law. It never 
states that price is a precondition for an inventor who obtains 
and then licenses or assigns a patented invention. In fact, the 
goal of the Bayh-Dole Act is commercialization, as such, not 
low prices. Now, this is really important, because Congress 
knows how to enact price control laws when it wishes to do so, 
and it has done so many times. One of my favorite examples. The 
Emergency Price Control Act of 1942. Very clear in what that 
law does. That is not the Bayh-Dole Act. In a shortsighted 
effort to drive down drug prices, these new regulatory 
guidelines will kill this golden goose of innovation and 
economic growth.
    The second law that is misconstrued today by those seeking 
to impose price controls on drug patents is Section 1498. Now, 
this doesn't have a name, because it's a century-old law that 
secures to patent owners the protections of the Takings Clause 
of the Fifth Amendment. It ensures a court can hear a claim for 
compensation when an official or government contractor uses a 
patent without authorization for a government use, such as the 
military or the Post Office. Today, price control advocates 
seek to turn this law on its head, as well. Now, in its text 
and function, Section 1498 secures the rights of patent owners 
against unauthorized uses of their property by the government, 
guaranteeing the same compensation as all other property 
owners. Now, some seek to turn Section 1498 into an 
unprecedented compulsory licensing regime in which the 
government promotes private companies to violate patent rights. 
Again, a law is being twisted to achieve shortsighted policy 
goals of lowering drug prices.
    Today, the U.S. is a global leader in health care 
innovation. The biotech revolution began in the United States 
in the 1980's. More than 50 percent of all new drugs are 
invented in the United States, to this very day. Diseases like 
cancer, diabetes, hepatitis are no longer death sentences but 
are now curable or at least manageable conditions. This was all 
made possible by the U.S. securing reliable and effective 
property rights in the fruits of the labors of the innovators 
working in the biopharmaceutical sector: securing patents. 
Countless lives have been saved, lifespans increased, and 
quality of daily life enhanced for everyone in the world. The 
patent system and laws like the Bayh-Dole Act and Section 1498 
made this possible. Thank you, and I look forward to your 
questions.
    [The prepared statement of Professor Mossoff appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Professor Mossoff. Dr. Feldman, 
please.

         STATEMENT OF WILLIAM FELDMAN, MD, DPhil, MPH,

         ASSOCIATE PHYSICIAN, DIVISION OF PULMONARY AND

 CRITICAL CARE MEDICINE, BRIGHAM AND WOMEN'S HOSPITAL, BOSTON, 
                         MASSACHUSETTS

    Dr. Feldman. Chair Durbin, Ranking Member Graham, and 
Members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to 
testify today. I became interested in pharmaceutical pricing 
during my medical training when I observed firsthand how 
patients were often unable to afford their medications, leading 
to decreased adherence and worse health outcomes. Much of my 
research today focuses on how pharmaceutical firms use patent 
thickets and product hops to delay generic competition and keep 
prices high. The U.S. Federal Government rewards pharmaceutical 
innovation by granting time-limited monopolies to sell 
prescription drugs free from generic competition. And the key 
here is time-limited. Once patent protection ends, generic 
firms can enter the market. Such competition is by far the most 
important tool for lowering prescription drug prices in the 
U.S.
    Unfortunately, many brand name firms now engage in 
strategies designed to game the system and extend periods of 
market exclusivity, to the detriment of patients and payers. 
Consider inhalers for asthma and COPD. Millions of Americans 
rely on these products to help them breathe. Last year, 
AstraZeneca brought a product to the market called Airsupra. 
This product contains albuterol, first approved in 1981, and 
budesonide, first approved in 1994. Airsupra has patents 
lasting into the 2030's, and the current list price is over 
$500. Even with substantial rebates, we're still talking about 
a couple of hundred dollars for a product with active 
ingredients that were approved 30 to 40 years ago, and there is 
no hard clinical evidence to suggest that this product is any 
better than another AstraZeneca inhaler that has been on the 
market for two decades.
    By no means is this criticism intended to single out one 
company. All of the other three major brand name inhaler 
manufacturers--GSK, Boehringer Ingelheim, and Teva--engage in 
similarly problematic strategies. For example, we have found in 
our research that more than half of all patents on inhalers are 
on the delivery devices of these products, and these patents 
have extended market exclusivity--these device patents--by a 
median of 5 years. Seventy-seven percent of these device 
patents fail to even mention, much less claim, the active 
pharmaceutical compounds in the products.
    According to recent FTC action, these patents should never 
have been listed in the Orange Book in the first place, yet 
these tactics have been lucrative for inhaler manufacturers. Of 
the $178 billion that inhaler manufacturers earned on these 
products just in the U.S. from 2000-2021, more than 110 billion 
accrued after patents on the active ingredients had expired. 
That's 68 percent of revenue after patents on the active 
ingredients had expired. I applaud the FTC's efforts to crack 
down on improperly listed patents and also those of the Senate 
Health Committee, which launched an investigation into inhaler 
manufacturers earlier this year. This work is extremely 
important.
    But inhalers are just one example of abusive patenting 
practices that have become rampant across the pharmaceutical 
system, and we need comprehensive reform. The Senate Judiciary 
Committee has recently moved four bipartisan bills out of 
Committee that, if enacted into law, could facilitate more 
timely generic competition. These bills focus on establishing 
better communication between the U.S. PTO and FDA, limiting 
product hops, punishing brand name firms for baseless citizens 
petitions, and preventing pay-for-delay settlements. I strongly 
support these bipartisan efforts.
    I would also urge you to consider five additional measures 
to further advance the important work you all are doing, to 
facilitate more timely generic competition. First, grant the 
FDA the authority and resources to evaluate all patents 
submitted for listing in the Orange Book, to determine 
eligibility for inclusion. Second, require that all patents 
submitted to the FDA for listing in the Orange Book are also 
concurrently submitted to the U.S. PTO for re-examination. 
Third, limit the number of patents that brand name 
manufacturers can assert to one patent per family when suing 
for infringement.
    Fourth, grant the FDA more authority to approve generic 
drug device combinations that differ slightly from brand name 
reference products while still containing the same active 
ingredients and require the FDA to ensure that post-marketing 
surveillance studies are conducted to confirm similar outcomes 
between those receiving generic and brand name versions. And, 
finally, I would encourage Congress to increase the 180-day 
exclusivity periods for the first generic firms to file 
paragraph IV certifications on complex products like drug 
device combinations and decrease the automatic 30-month stays 
awarded to brand name firms that sue for infringement.
    We should strive for a pharmaceutical system that rewards 
meaningful therapeutic breakthroughs--cures for hepatitis C, 
new MRNA vaccines--not small modifications to the plastic 
components of delivery devices or new tweaks to molecules that 
perform no better than existing therapies. Thank you for your 
time.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. Feldman appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Doctor. Ms. Ulrich.

         STATEMENT OF JOCELYN ULRICH, VICE PRESIDENT, 
            POLICY & RESEARCH, PhRMA, WASHINGTON, DC

    Ms. Ulrich. Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member Graham, and 
Members of the Committee, thank you for inviting me to 
participate in today's hearing. PhRMA appreciates the 
opportunity to discuss ways to improve the affordability and 
accessibility of lifesaving medicines for patients. It is no 
accident that the United States leads the world in the 
development of treatments and cures for patients. This is the 
direct result of our carefully designed ecosystem, built over 
many years through smart public policies that encourage risk-
taking and collaboration.
    At the core of this ecosystem are strong and reliable 
intellectual property protections that give companies the 
certainty they need to make the long-term investments required 
to bring new medicines to patients, as well as to improve them 
for additional patient benefit. In fact, the biopharmaceutical 
sector is one of the most research-intensive industries in the 
United States, spending more than 100 billion every year 
researching and developing new medicines for patients. This 
spending far outpaces the NIH's budget for drug R&D year over 
year.
    Our members are committed to tackling the hardest, most 
difficult-to-treat diseases, and they make significant 
investments, knowing that fewer than 12 percent of potential 
medicines that make it into clinical trials will eventually be 
FDA-approved medicines. By any measure, America's IP framework 
has been a resounding success. Despite the long odds, 
biopharmaceutical companies have launched more than 750 drugs 
since 2000, resulting in significant progress against some of 
the most costly and challenging diseases.
    For example, new CAR T therapies are curing children with 
advanced leukemia by training cells to fight the cancer, and as 
a result, since peaking in the early 1990's, cancer death rates 
have declined by 33 percent. Due to highly effective 
antiretroviral therapy, the HIV/AIDS death rate has declined by 
91 percent, allowing HIV patients to live close-to-normal 
lifespans, and patients with sickle cell disease can be treated 
with a genome-edited cell therapy that has the potential of a 
functional cure for their disease. These advances not only 
improve patient lives but they help avoid other, more expensive 
health care costs. For example, between 1999 and 2012, there 
was a significant reduction in Medicare spending growth for 
cardiovascular disease, one-quarter of which was due to the 
greater use of cardiovascular medicines.
    Importantly, our IP system not only incentivizes the 
development of new medicines, but it spurs competition that 
lowers health care costs. First, there is robust competition 
from other brand manufacturers. No company has a monopoly on 
treating a disease. Companies compete to develop the most 
effective treatment options for patients. For example, within a 
year of the first breakthrough treatment for hepatitis C, the 
availability of multiple competitors reduced the average price 
or the net cost of these medicines by nearly 80 percent.
    Data also show discounts and rebates are already lowering 
the net costs of treatment with GLP-1s by as much as 79 
percent, with more competition on the way, and eventually 
medicines face competition from generics and biosimilars, which 
drives down costs even more. On average, a drug is on the 
market only 13 years before facing competition from generic 
versions, much shorter than the patent life of 20 years, and 
typically drive down costs as much as 80 percent. This is what 
makes the marketplace for medicines unique. Similar cost 
containment mechanisms do not exist for any other part of the 
health care system.
    But there are real challenges for getting more affordable 
options to patients. Insurance companies and their pharmacy 
benefit managers determine what medicines are covered, what 
patients pay out of pocket, and what hoops they have to jump 
through to access the medicines their doctor prescribes. Today, 
three large PBMs now comprise nearly 80 percent of the market, 
and each is vertically integrated with health insurers, 
specialty and mail-order pharmacies, and provider groups to 
form large health care conglomerates. And they are 
significantly impacting whether patients are able to benefit 
from biopharmaceutical innovation.
    PBMs often stand in the way of patient access to lower-
priced versions of medicines, routinely denying or limiting 
coverage. And with growing scrutiny over rebates, PBMs have 
leveraged their vertical integration to create new sources of 
revenue. PBMs are also choosing to tie patient cost-sharing to 
the list prices rather than the discounted prices that they 
themselves pay.
    You'll likely hear today that the market is competitive and 
that abuses of the IP system and patents are the real problem. 
Instead, Congress should be focused on advancing policies where 
competition could be advanced without undermining the very 
foundation of the industry's ability to innovate. This includes 
addressing the misaligned incentives in the PBM market. Thank 
you for the opportunity to testify, and we look forward to 
working in a constructive way to ensure patient access to the 
medicines they need. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Ulrich appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Ms. Ulrich. Mr. Mitchell.

 STATEMENT OF DAVID MITCHELL, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, PATIENTS 
              FOR AFFORDABLE DRUGS, WASHINGTON, DC

    Mr. Mitchell. Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member Graham, 
Committee Members, thank you for inviting me. I'm David 
Mitchell. I'm the founder of Patients for Affordable Drugs. 
More importantly, I have an incurable blood cancer called 
multiple myeloma. Most patients with my diagnosis will die of 
it, but right now prescription drugs are keeping me alive. My 
doctors have me on a four-drug combination with a list price of 
more than $1 million a year. Just one of my oral drugs, a drug 
called Pomalyst, is priced at more than $22,000 for 21 capsules 
in this little bottle that I have to buy 13 times a year. And 
because Medicare beneficiaries like me pay our costs based on 
list price, I spent more than $16,500 out of pocket last year, 
just for Pomalyst.
    The Inflation Reduction Act changed that. This year, an 
out-of-pocket spending limit began to take effect, and my cost 
is $3,326. Next year, the limit will drop to $2,000, and no one 
on Part D will pay more than that. For me and other patients 
like me who have to take very expensive drugs to stay alive, it 
is life changing. The drugs are keeping my cancer at bay, but 
their efficacy is waning, and eventually I will need a new 
treatment--and one after that.
    So I care deeply about innovation and new drug development. 
Without it, I'm going to die sooner than I hope to. That's why 
this hearing is so important. Our patent system was put in 
place to incentivize and reward risk in investment in new 
treatments that can save my life and the lives of others. But 
too often, drug companies are instead investing in a legal 
strategy, using patents not to reward innovation but to block 
competition. In one recent 10-year period, 74 percent of new 
drug patents were issued for drugs already on the market. Of 
the roughly 100 bestselling drugs, nearly 80 percent obtained 
an additional patent to extend their monopoly. Partly as a 
result, we pay more than four times what other wealthy nations 
pay for the exact same brand name drugs. Thirty percent of 
Americans say they struggle to afford their medications.
    Let's look at another drug I take to prevent blood clots 
and stroke, Eliquis. In 2023, it was the most expensive drug 
for Medicare, at $12.6 billion. Its maker, Bristol Myers 
Squibb, has applied for 48 patents and been granted 27, 
blocking competition in this country. The list price for a 30-
day supply in the U.S. is about 600 bucks. In Canada, where 
there is a generic on the market, the price is about $75. We 
need to restore balance to our broken drug patent system so it 
does incentivize and reward true innovation instead of being 
used to block competition. The FTC is moving on this problem, 
as the chairman pointed out, challenging more than 300 junk 
patents, as many as 400, that are listed in the Orange Book. 
And Congress can act to help now. Bipartisan bills to address 
the principal abuses of our patent system by drug companies 
have cleared Committee and are ready for passage in the Senate. 
They deal with pay-for-delay, patent thicketing, and product 
hopping. There are two more bills to improve FDA practices that 
will speed generics to market. They stop the abusive citizen 
petitions and allow the FDA to share important information with 
generic manufacturers to help them get to market more quickly.
    Now, while the headwaters of our drug price problems are 
the list prices set by drug companies, as Ms. Ulrich pointed 
out, there are other reforms needed downstream in the supply 
chain. Pharmacy benefit managers are black boxes that cut 
secret, often mutually beneficial, deals with drug companies, 
and none of it is transparent. We need to increase transparency 
and curb anticompetitive practices by PBMs. There are 
bipartisan bills in both the House and Senate to accomplish 
these goals.
    I am here today to ask you all to pass all of these bills, 
which will allow competition and market forces to lower drug 
prices for millions of Americans, regardless of how they pay 
for their drugs. These bills also save money for taxpayers, and 
we're pushing, along with dozens of allies, for inclusion in 
any year-end health care package that may be negotiated. And in 
a city riven by political division, these bills are thoroughly 
and completely bipartisan. Together, you can pass them. Please 
don't let this opportunity to help millions of Americans slip 
away. I look forward to answering your question. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Mitchell appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Mr. Mitchell, thank you very much. There'll 
be rounds of questions from the Members, 5 minutes each. I'll 
start and then turn the gavel over to Senator Welch.
    Dr. Feldman, since you're the only medical doctor on the 
panel, I'm going to ask you an obvious question. The legal 
system in America basically says that in order to have a 
prescription drug, you need a doctor to write a prescription. 
So, a doctor's judgment is involved in that administration of 
that very basic principle. So, my question to you is this. We 
know the pharmaceutical industry spends $6 billion a year, the 
size of the entire FDA budget, to fill the airwaves with brand 
name drug ads. That way, patients cannot only pronounce 
Xarelto--maybe even spell it--but they can also tell their 
doctors that's the blood thinner they want.
    So, the pharmaceutical industry must believe that that's 
good enough, to inform the consumer of the benefits of this 
drug and some of the dangers of the drug, at one time, but to 
basically get them to the point where they go to the doctor and 
say, I want Xarelto. Then the doctor, in our system, has to 
make a professional judgment: Is that the right drug for this 
patient? Is there a better drug? Clearly, Pharma believes that 
the consumer suggestion is going to be pretty powerful in this 
equation. So, I don't want to say this in a negative fashion, 
but I'm going to. Are doctors complicit with Pharma in 
prescribing overpriced drugs because they don't have enough 
time or inclination to debate the issue?
    Dr. Feldman. Thank you. You know, I think doctors--you 
know, clearly, as you said, pharmaceutical companies are 
spending this money on advertising because they think it works 
and because, to some extent, it does work. I do think that some 
doctors--I know some doctors receive money from pharmaceutical 
companies for prescribing certain types of medications. And so 
I do worry that some physicians are complicit in this, to an 
extent.
    Chair Durbin. Well, they're gatekeepers in this process, 
and if they aren't there, I don't know who would police the 
ranks in terms of that. Ms. Ulrich, when you hear over and over 
and over and over again the fact that a basic drug being sold 
to Americans is at a price that is dramatically higher than 
you're selling the same drug in your industry in other 
countries, do you just shrug it off and say, that's just the 
luck of the draw? Or is it the fact that Americans are being 
asked to pay for the innovation and the costs and the profits, 
whereas other countries basically put their foot down and say, 
this is greed, and we're going to stop you?
    Ms. Ulrich. Thank you, Senator Durbin, for that question. I 
first would point out that, when we're looking at comparisons 
of U.S. funding, medicines are about the same share of overall 
health care spending as European countries. So, when you're 
looking at the actual relative contribution of spending on 
medicines, it's similar. In addition, I would point out that 
comparisons are often looking at list prices. And as I spoke 
about in my testimony, we know that there are significant 
amounts of rebates being paid to PBMs and others in the supply 
chain that are not accounted for when we're doing those cross-
country comparisons.
    Chair Durbin. Well, let me say this about your suggestion. 
If I put one hand over a flame on the stove and the other hand 
in a freezer, on the average I should be just fine. But life 
doesn't work that way. And say on the average other countries 
are just about as expensive as the United States; the list 
prices are dramatically different. One hundred percent 
different. Why would you do that to the American consumers, 
when you're American companies?
    Ms. Ulrich. Well, I would also point out that Americans get 
access to those medicines much faster than those countries, as 
well. Eighty-five percent of globally approved new medicines 
are available to patients in the U.S. versus about 40 percent 
in the EU countries. In cancer medications, European patients 
are getting access 2 years later, on average. So, patients are 
benefiting from that innovation, as well.
    Chair Durbin. Mr. Mitchell, what do you think?
    Mr. Mitchell. Oh, I think that drug companies file first 
here because we are the largest market in the world, with the 
highest prices in the world. And they come here because the FDA 
is pretty easy to work with, and it's a high quality drug 
approval agency. And so they come here. They apply first, to 
get access to the market, but also they can take a lot of their 
filing work and take it abroad. It's interesting to note--
because the IRA was raised earlier--that even after the IRA is 
fully implemented, we will still be the largest market in the 
world, with the highest prices in the world, and they are still 
going to file first here. And it's because it's in their 
business interest to do so.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Graham.
    Senator Graham. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, Mr. Mossoff, 
you said 50 percent of all the new drugs are made in America; 
is that right? Or developed here?
    Professor Mossoff. Yes. It's actually more than 50 percent.
    Senator Graham. Do you agree with that, Ms. Ulrich?
    Ms. Ulrich.
    [Nods in the affirmative.]
    Senator Graham. Okay. Why is that?
    Professor Mossoff. So, and very much--it's a great 
question, and thank----
    Senator Graham. Are we smarter, or what's the deal?
    Professor Mossoff. And very much I believe it has to do 
with the patent system, in the sense that the United States 
innovatively took the position, starting from the very 
beginning of the country, that they would secure next-
generation technologies and they would protect them as property 
rights.
    Senator Graham. So, patents are a good thing?
    Professor Mossoff. Patents are a driver of economic growth, 
of new----
    Senator Graham. Okay.
    Professor Mossoff [continuing]. Innovation. Yes.
    Senator Graham. Okay. I agree with that. Now, is patent 
abuse a problem when it comes to drugs?
    Professor Mossoff. So, there's a lot of rhetoric about, you 
know, whether their abuse exists.
    Senator Graham. I'm not talking about the words; the 
actions.
    Professor Mossoff. Yes. Yes. So, it's very difficult to 
sometimes find actual evidence. So, for instance, you see 
evidence of abuse. Are there some cases? Yes, because in every 
legal system and every area of life, there's going to be some 
bad actors.
    Senator Graham. So, Dr. Feldman, do you believe there's 
gaming of the patent system by pharmaceutical companies?
    Dr. Feldman. I think there's no question. You know----
    Senator Graham. See, I'm with you on this one.
    Dr. Feldman. You look at--I don't think it's sort of 
finding a needle in a haystack. Everywhere we----
    Senator Graham. Yes.
    Dr. Feldman [continuing]. Look; every study we do----
    Senator Graham. Yes.
    Dr. Feldman [continuing]. We find gaming. We look at----
    Senator Graham. Yes.
    Dr. Feldman [continuing]. Drug device combinations. I 
talked about inhalers. We see the same thing on GLP-1 receptor 
agonists like Ozempic and----
    Senator Graham. Yes. So, I'm with you on that. So, I want 
to keep, like, the patent system in place, because it's good. I 
just think the problem is real, in terms of patent abuse, the 
games that people play. Senator Grassley's, you know, pay-to-
delay, that kind of stuff. So, count me in on trying to fix 
that without killing the golden--the egg laid by the goose. Ms. 
Ulrich, you talked about PBMs. What percentage of costs do you 
think could be attributed to them?
    Ms. Ulrich. I'm sorry, I don't have a number, but I can 
tell you that, you know, with 80 percent being controlled by 3 
in the vertically integrated entities, that there's extreme 
market pressure being controlled by those 3 entities.
    Senator Graham. Okay. So, that'd be a good place for us to 
look, to create some competition, right?
    Ms. Ulrich. I agree.
    Senator Graham. Do you agree that there is patent abuse in 
your industry?
    Ms. Ulrich. You know, PhRMA is not in support of 
anticompetitive behaviors, and----
    Senator Graham. Well, that's not the question. Do you agree 
there's patent abuse in your industry?
    Ms. Ulrich. Well, I believe that there are controls in 
place to handle that, when there is----
    Senator Graham. So, you don't think there's a problem?
    Ms. Ulrich. I think that the courts and FTC has----
    Senator Graham. So, wait----
    Ms. Ulrich [continuing]. The authority to deal with it.
    Senator Graham [continuing]. A minute. Wait a minute. You 
don't think there's a problem with pharmaceutical companies 
playing games with patents to keep generics out of the market?
    Ms. Ulrich. I think that the system has the correct checks 
and balances in place to deal with it.
    Senator Graham. So, you think it's working?
    Ms. Ulrich. I think it's working.
    Senator Graham. Yes. Well, I don't. Mr. Mitchell, you're on 
the receiving end of all this. One, I hope the next drug comes 
along quickly----
    Mr. Mitchell. Thank you.
    Senator Graham [continuing]. Because there're a lot of 
people like you, in different areas of our society, depending 
on Ms. Ulrich--I mean, I'm not saying--I'm trying to say new 
drugs are good; gaming the system, bad. PBMs need to be better 
controlled. Is that a good summary?
    Mr. Mitchell. I'd say so.
    Senator Graham. Okay. Now, let's go to foreign countries. 
If a drug is a lot cheaper in a foreign country because of 
government action in that country to subsidize the drug, would 
you consider that an unfair trade practice, Professor Mossoff?
    Professor Mossoff. Potentially, yes. I mean, one of the 
problems with the cost of high drugs in this country is that 
other--all--this is the last country in the world, as far as 
I'm aware, that drug manufacturers and drug innovators can set 
the price in the marketplace at a price that they would seek to 
sell it at. All----
    Senator Graham. Yes. I think----
    Professor Mossoff [continuing]. Other systems have single-
payer systems.
    Senator Graham. Professor, do you consider that a potential 
unfair trade practice?
    Professor Rai. Thank you for the question. It could be, 
yes. I mean, I do think that it is the case--I'm not an 
international trade expert, but it is the case that----
    Senator Graham. So--Okay, so----
    Professor Rai. Yes.
    Senator Graham [continuing]. Here's what I'd like to do, as 
a Committee, here. Focus on the fact that some countries 
actually do lower the prices through government action that we 
prohibit here. For all the reasons you said, that makes our 
consumers have to absorb more of the R&D. That, to me, needs to 
be part of the conversation. To me, that is an unfair trade 
practice. Does that make sense to you, Mr. Mitchell?
    Mr. Mitchell. Respectfully, Senator, I disagree. I don't 
think their prices are too low. I think our prices are too 
high. And the reason their prices----
    Senator Graham. Well, but----
    Mr. Mitchell [continuing]. Are low--one reason is that 
we're the only nation in the world that permits drug companies 
to dictate prices to its citizens; the only nation on the 
planet. Every other country negotiates. We only began----
    Senator Graham. Yes.
    Mr. Mitchell [continuing]. To negotiate this year, and we 
will negotiate over a total of 60 drugs out of about 4,000. 
But----
    Senator Graham. I don't----
    Mr. Mitchell [continuing]. We should do more negotiating.
    Senator Graham. Yes. I understand, to a point. The question 
is, what role of the government here? And I'll let you go. I 
wish you well. What role should the government play in this is 
a very important decision to make. And when a country is having 
governmental policies that make our consumers pay more for the 
R&D we all need, I'm going to go after those countries. Thank 
you.
    Senator Welch, [presiding.] Senator Whitehouse.
    Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Chairman Welch. Good to be 
with all of you. I know we've talked a fair amount about drug 
ads. Obviously, like everybody else, I see a lot of them on my 
television. As best I can tell, they provide the public no 
health care value whatsoever. They provide sales and marketing 
value for the companies that are paying for the ads. And as 
best I can tell, what the marketing strategy is, is to convince 
everybody that all these drugs are a cure for loneliness.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Whitehouse. I don't know if you've noticed, but the 
person always starts off alone, and then they tell you about 
the drug, and then they're with friends or they're, instead of 
alone on the dock, out on the lake with their family in the 
canoe. And the mental communication, the message, is, this drug 
will make you less alone and lonely. And then, of course, you 
don't even listen to all the horrible things that the drug is 
going to do to you, in the rapid, fast-paced, legally driven 
script at the end. It's a very peculiar piece of propaganda 
art, and I would love to understand more about how it's made to 
work.
    But the ads that I really want to talk about are other ads, 
and that has to do with Big Pharma's role funding dark money 
political pressure and ads. Pharmaceutical and health product 
companies put over $372 million into lobbying Congress and 
Federal agencies in 2022--a third of a billion. They deployed 
over 1,600 lobbyists, 3 times the number of Members of 
Congress. Now, it's hard to keep track of dark money spending 
compared to lobbying, because that's the whole purpose of using 
dark money funding channels, but an investigation by Issue One 
showed Pharma contributed more than $34.5 million to the House 
GOP-aligned dark money group, American Action Network, since 
2010. Thirty-five million dollars is enough to get the 
attention of House Republican leadership, I think.
    In 2022 alone, Pharma gave a record 7.5 million to American 
Action Network, which spent millions on advertising in 2022 
opposing our drug pricing reform efforts and specifically the 
ones that made it into the IRA. Pharma donates to the Koch-and 
Trump-affiliated dark money organizations Americans for 
Prosperity, Americans for Tax Reform, and America First 
policies. A summary by The Washington Post in 2021 was pretty 
good: Congress Members who supported legislation to curb the 
cost of prescription drugs faced ``massive months-long 
advertising, lobbying, and political donation blitz undertaken 
by the pharmaceutical industry and its allies, to kill a 
Democratic proposal to lower the cost of prescription drugs by 
empowering the Federal Government to negotiate their prices.''
    And, obviously, particularly the political donation blitz 
and the advertising blitz have a lot to do with putting those 
political ads up on TV, which I think are disconcerting to 
folks in America, because when it's your TV, and there's a 
message coming in to you across your TV, and it's paid for by a 
group with a name like Americans for Peace and Puppies and 
Prosperity, and you know perfectly well that there is no such 
group that provides any real service or any real product--
they're just there to mask who's really trying to communication 
with you--it's creepy as hell.
    And I think we need to fix that, and I would like to 
encourage all of you to do whatever you can to encourage the 
pharmaceutical industry to at least be transparent in its 
spending. Don't use Americans for Prosperity or some of these 
other front groups as intermediaries. If you really think this 
opinion that you're offering into people's living rooms is 
worth it, own it. And I'll leave it at that. Actually, let me 
ask Mr. Mitchell, what do you think are the sort of red flags 
that we should be looking at, where anticompetitive use of the 
patent system is signaled as opposed to pro-innovation use of 
the patent system?
    Mr. Mitchell. Well, anytime you have a drug like Humira 
that, as the Chairman pointed out in his opening remarks, had 
165 patents on it--and I remember the day Senator Cornyn spoke 
to the chairman of Humira in a hearing and couldn't get a 
straight answer from him on how many patents there were on 
Humira--those patents, which began to expire in Europe in 2018, 
led to prices in Europe that were 15 percent of the prices that 
we paid in this country until the Humira competition finally 
hit the market last year. So, look for the number of patents. 
Look at what's happening abroad. Did they give away a little 
bit of the market in Europe in order to protect their market 
here from competitors? There are signs to look for.
    Senator Whitehouse. Thank you very much.
    Senator Welch. Senator Grassley.
    Senator Grassley. If you heard what Mr. Mitchell said, 
you're going to hear it again. So, I have this question about 
some bills that we've already passed out of this Committee that 
I think lead to anticompetitive practices in prescription 
drugs, as well as the availability of lower-priced generic 
alternatives. We focus on pay-for-delay deals, citizen 
petitions abuse, product hopping and evergreening and unfair 
PBM practices. And so these bills kind of come out with these 
names in this Committee: Prescription Pricing for the People 
Act, the Preserve Access to Affordable Generics and Biosimilars 
Act, Stop STALLING Act, the Affordable Prescriptions for 
Patients Act, and the Interagency Patent Coordination and 
Improvement Act.
    And it's frustrating that these bills move and become law--
why they have not, I don't know. I hope that we can break the 
logjam for the benefits. And, Mr. Mitchell, you made that very 
clear. So, I was going to ask you, as one of three people 
here--so I'm going to focus on Professor Rai and Dr. Feldman. 
Do you believe that these bills that I've mentioned will help 
promote competition and lower drug costs?
    Professor Rai. Thank you for the question. Yes, I do 
believe they will. I don't know that I would agree with the 
particulars of every single bill, but I've already endorsed 
heartily the Interagency Coordination Act, and I believe that 
the bills for product hopping, in particular, could be very 
useful, as well. There's also a bill on patent thickets that I 
think could prove very useful. So, yes, overall, absolutely.
    Dr. Feldman. I agree. I think every bill that we are 
talking about today--all these bipartisan bills--would help 
address the problem. To me, there is no silver bullet. I wish 
there was one solution that could solve all of our problems, 
but I really think the work this Committee is doing around all 
of these issues--around better communication with the U.S. PTO 
and FDA, around citizen petitions, pay-for-delay settlement--we 
really have to be going after every single issue, to make 
incremental progress on what think is a real problem for our 
health care system.
    Senator Grassley. Yes. Ms. Ulrich, you made very clear in 
your answer to a question that the 3 biggest PBMs have 80 
percent of the market, so I don't need to ask you to explain 
that further, but I'd like to zero in on a bill that Senator 
Cantwell and I have focused, called the Pharmacy Benefit 
Manager Transparency Act, to prevent unfair anticompetitive 
practices by PBMs and bring about greater transparency. 
Specifically, our bill would prohibit deceptive pricing schemes 
and arbitrary clawbacks of payments made to pharmacies. The 
bill would also require PBMs to report to the FTC how much 
money that they make through spread pricing and pharmacy fees. 
Do you believe that this bill would help address competition 
concerns and lower the price of drugs for patients?
    Ms. Ulrich. Yes, thank you, Senator Grassley. We believe 
in--we support the principles of that bill, but I would defer 
to my other colleagues who are more engaged on PBM policy more 
directly, to answer you fully. And we would be happy to engage 
with you further on that.
    Senator Grassley. Okay. Thank you very much. I would go to 
Ms. Ulrich and Professor Mossoff. I'd like you to answer 
questions about the Federal Government investing $50 billion in 
health care research in this Fiscal Year alone. On top of that, 
we know the pharmaceutical industry invests 80 to 90 annually 
on research and development. Universities, pharmaceutical 
entities, biotech startups, small inventors, and other 
stakeholders are all engaged in innovation to find cures and 
produce lifesaving drugs. So, Professor Mossoff, how do we 
build on this work so that we can find the next miracle drug 
without breaking patients' pocketbooks? What kind of incentives 
spur investment in R&D?
    Professor Mossoff. I think that, as a general principle, we 
should continue to retain the system that has made possible the 
biotech revolution and all of these incredible new drug 
treatments, which is reliable and effective patent rights that 
are secured to the innovators, that they can deploy in the 
marketplace. The data that I have on the funding shows that, at 
least as of 2018, you had private R&D funding of around 129 
billion, which, as Ms. Ulrich said, dwarfs, you know, the 40 
billion or so by NIH. So, it's not true, what many people 
believe, that the government funds all drug development or all 
drug discoveries.
    In fact, one study done in 2021 of just the grants by the 
NIH in the year 2000--there were 23,230 NIH grants in the year 
2000, and those were linked to only 18 FDA-approved medicines 
by 2020. So, what, you know, you have is a continuing process 
in which the NIH funds very far upstream initial research, 
right, the basic research, and then once the university 
researchers figure out that this is something that might be 
important, they get a patent; the university licenses it to a 
biotech company or they create a startup and get venture 
capital financing.
    And that's what accounts for the $2.6 billion, on average, 
that goes into drug development ultimately that leads to an 
FDA-approved therapeutic treatment in the marketplace. And we 
should continue to ensure that that can happen by ensuring that 
the Bayh-Dole Act is not changed and that it continues to 
function in the way that it has functioned very successfully in 
the past 30 or 40 years in this incredible R&D pipeline that's 
been developed--as I said, rooted in this system of property 
rights to innovators that we have had in this country for 200 
years.
    Senator Grassley. I'll submit questions for answer in 
writing. Thank you.
    Senator Welch. Thank you. Senator Hirono.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for 
testifying. I know that every time we compare pharmaceutical 
prices, we are told that Europeans pay far, far, less, but I do 
acknowledge, as you said, Professor Mossoff, that our health 
care system is very complicated. You're the only person on the 
panel who happened to mention that other nations have single-
payer systems. In our country, adding to the cost of health 
care is depending on how you get injured and what system is 
kicking in to take care of you. We have the VA, the largest 
health care program in the country; we have private insurance; 
we have Medicare; we have Medicaid. In Hawaii, depending on if 
you get hurt in an auto injury, then that's another system.
    So, I think that, you know, there is no single bullet, and 
for us to just--I realize that the patent system abuses is part 
of the problem, but for us to sit here and just point our 
fingers at the patent system is not going to resolve in the 
kind of non-silver bullet that we also acknowledge. And, in 
fact, Professor Mossoff, would you like to just very briefly go 
over why the payer system we have in our country--if you have 
any information on how much that adds to the cost of health 
care in our country, I would appreciate your thoughts.
    Professor Mossoff. Thank you for the question, Senator. I 
don't have any specific data on the total cost of all of the 
different complex institutions, public and private, that exist 
in our health care system, except for the fact that I know 
generally, as a scholar, it is incredibly complex, and it makes 
other systems look very simple and basic.
    Senator Hirono. Yes. And I think that if we really wanted 
to get control over the United States having the highest health 
care costs in the country, we should look at the payer systems 
that we have in place, but that's not what our focus is right 
now. It is clear that we do have abuses in the patent system, 
and I think it is important for us to very carefully target the 
abuses, as opposed to passing legislation that is going to be 
overbroad. Would you say that some of the bills that we have 
passed out of this Committee precisely target the abuses in the 
patent system? Anybody--wants to weigh in on this? I think 
you're familiar with some of the bills that have emerged from 
this Committee.
    Voice. So----
    Dr. Feldman. I think the bills are targeted effectively. 
The bills target citizen petitions. They target pay-for-delay 
settlements. There are very specific things that these bills go 
after, that I think would undoubtedly improve some of the 
patent gamesmanship that we've seen, but I don't think these 
bills go far enough. I think there are numerous other targeted 
solutions that are simple and would help improve things. For--
--
    Senator Hirono. Such as?
    Dr. Feldman. Such as, have the FDA review every patent that 
gets submitted to the Orange Book. The FDA currently serves in 
a purely ministerial role. It doesn't look at the patents. The 
companies can submit whatever they want. So, give the FDA the 
authority and the resources to review those patents. Force 
manufacturers, when they submit patents for listing in the 
Orange Book--submit them for re-examination to the U.S. PTO. 
Very simple, but making sure that these patents that are listed 
in the Orange Book aren't----
    Senator Hirono. Would the----
    Dr. Feldman [continuing]. Being listed----
    Senator Hirono. Excuse me.
    Dr. Feldman [continuing]. Improperly.
    Senator Hirono. Would the rest of you agree that those are 
some so-called simple changes, where there's more collaboration 
as well as the information sharing between PTO and FTC, for 
example?
    Professor Rai. FDA and----
    Senator Hirono. Oh, FDA.
    Professor Rai [continuing]. PTO. Yes. Absolutely. I think 
that--and also, Professor--Dr. Feldman's point about the FDA's 
ministerial--so-called ministerial role could be fixed really 
readily and inexpensively if the FDA and PTO collaborated on 
every patent that was listed on the Orange Book, to ensure that 
it's properly listed. This is a gap in the system that has 
existed for decades, and it's really unclear, to me, at least, 
why this gap has not been filled.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you for that suggestion. I have a 
question for Dr. Feldman. Last year, insulin prices were cut 
dramatically after surpassing the rate of inflation year after 
year. In a paper last year, you catalog ``The Rise and Fall of 
the Insulin Pricing Bubble.'' I'm not talking about the 
situation where the legislation capped the insulin costs for 
Medicare. This has to do with insulin's cost for everybody 
else. Can you give us some insight into why prices rose so 
high, why they fell so dramatically, and whether that 
experience points the way toward possible policy solutions we 
can use for other high or overpriced pharmaceuticals?
    Dr. Feldman. Thank you for the question, Senator. The 
reason why the prices of insulin rose so dramatically is 
because the three large insulin manufacturers obtained numerous 
patents to limit competition. They raised prices year after 
year, many, many, many times the original prices of these 
products. And the reason why prices came down so suddenly is 
that a rule in Medicaid lifted the cap on rebates, on penalties 
that these companies were going to have to pay. So, previously 
it was capped at 100 percent, where, if a patient used one of 
these old insulin products in Medicaid, because they had raised 
prices faster than the rate of inflation, year after year, they 
had to pay these very large penalties that were capped at 100 
percent. They are no longer capped at 100 percent, and so 
insulin manufacturers responded by dropping their list prices.
    Senator Hirono. So, there are other ways that we can lower 
drug prices by, for example, impacting what PBMs are getting. 
Is that part of the approach that we should consider?
    Dr. Feldman. I think we absolutely should consider 
legislation that addresses PBMs. I think some of the things 
we've talked about here today, like spread pricing, the lack of 
transparency--all of these contribute to higher prices in the 
system. But I would say just on this question about insulin 
prices and why they came down so dramatically, it's a rule that 
forced manufacturers to pay penalties for raising list prices 
greater than the rate of inflation. And so I think with the IRA 
we will see similar types of penalties, moving forward. And, 
you know, I think, again, we need action on--with the 
pharmaceutical companies, and we also need action with PBMs.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Welch. Senator Kennedy.
    Senator Kennedy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With me today, 
Mr. Chairman, are two interns in my office, Ms. Anna Kate Luke 
and Quinn Eisenfeld, and I wanted to recognize them today. 
They're sitting behind me.
    Mr. Mitchell, I'm sorry about your health challenges. You 
made a very impassioned plea for us to consider the various 
bills that have come out of this Committee. Why do you think 
the full Senate hasn't taken them up?
    Mr. Mitchell. I think you've been busy with some other 
things.
    Senator Kennedy. You really think that's the reason?
    Mr. Mitchell. Part of the reason, I think, yes, is that the 
Senate has been busy with many other things. I do think that 
there is an appetite on both sides of the aisle to----
    Senator Kennedy. Well----
    Mr. Mitchell [continuing]. Advance these bills, maybe in 
the lame duck session.
    Senator Kennedy. Respectfully, I think you're wrong.
    Mr. Mitchell. Tell me.
    Senator Kennedy. Okay. The majority leader controls the 
floor of the U.S. Senate. Whether that majority leader is a 
Republican or a Democrat, one person controls what the entire 
United States Senate can consider. And I don't mean to pick on 
Senator Schumer. He's my friend. He is exercising the power 
that we have ceded to him. If Republicans were in the majority, 
I feel pretty confident in saying that our majority leader, 
Senator McConnell, would exercise the same power.
    Do you think the Senate ought to establish a new rule that 
all Senators are equal, and some aren't more equal than others, 
and that if a Senator can demonstrate that he or she has 60 
votes to pass a bill--perhaps through the number of co-
sponsors, though that wouldn't be the only way--that that 
Senator should have the right to bring the bill to the floor of 
the United States Senate and allow Senators, in front of God 
and country and their constituents, to vote on it?
    Mr. Mitchell. Senator, you're way over my pay grade.
    Senator Kennedy. Okay. You don't have an opinion on that?
    Mr. Mitchell. No.
    Senator Kennedy. Professor, you're an attorney. Do you have 
an opinion? You don't want to make Senator Schumer mad. Does 
that concern you?
    Professor Rai. That's an excellent question. It does seem 
to me that that level of control could be not optimal, the 
level of control exercised by one person as----
    Senator Kennedy. You're a professor, right?
    Professor Rai. I am a professor.
    Senator Kennedy. Not optimal?
    Professor Rai. Correct.
    Senator Kennedy. Yes. In the real world, we say it sucks.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Kennedy. I came here today to learn, and I have 
learned a lot. But here's what I'm trying to understand. 
Professor, is your contention that, because of the patent 
abuse--your words, not mine--that pharmaceutical drug companies 
are making obscene profits in the United States?
    Professor Rai. Thank you for the question, sir. I don't 
think it's obscene. I think that, as many people have pointed 
out, in the United States we do fund research and development 
for the whole world, and that's a very, very knotty problem, so 
that's a challenge that I think we all need to take on. I do 
think that patent abuse contributes to lack of innovation, 
which might seem counterintuitive, but I'll tell you why.
    Senator Kennedy. Okay.
    Professor Rai. Because if you----
    Senator Kennedy. Let me stop you for a second, because I'm 
going to run out of time. You use the term, patent abuse. 
You're obviously using it in a pejorative sense. Is this patent 
abuse illegal?
    Professor Rai. It is not currently illegal, but there are 
mechanisms that we could readily employ to curtail it.
    Senator Kennedy. If we passed a bill?
    Professor Rai. If we passed bills. There's also a lot that 
agencies can do right now, using their current powers.
    Senator Kennedy. So, why don't they?
    Professor Rai. They don't because I think that Congress 
doesn't adequately push them to do it. So, you need to hold 
oversight hearings, hauling up the FDA and the PTO, asking them 
why they don't cooperate more, including on the sort of thing 
that they can already do, which is exchange information, 
including trade secret information----
    Senator Kennedy. So, you think the problem----
    Professor Rai [continuing]. Protected by trade secrecy law.
    Senator Kennedy. You think the problem is in part within 
our administrative agencies, like the FTC or----
    Professor Rai. The FTC is, I think, doing a cleanup job on 
the back end, but the FTC can only work on the back end. Recall 
that the FTC's jurisdiction is antitrust. That's after all the 
bad stuff has already happened. They try to clean up on the 
back end. We need to nip the problem in the bud, on the----
    Senator Kennedy. What about----
    Professor Rai [continuing]. Front end.
    Senator Kennedy [continuing]. The FDA?
    Professor Rai. FDA can help, and the PTO can help.
    Senator Kennedy. Is the FDA doing a bad job with 
controlling patent abuse?
    Professor Rai. The FDA considers its role ministerial. I 
think----
    Senator Kennedy. But are they doing a bad job, in your 
opinion? Come on----
    Professor Rai. I think they could----
    Senator Kennedy [continuing]. Professor, we're trying to 
find solutions here. Don't dance around on me. Tell me what you 
think.
    Professor Rai. I think they could do more.
    Senator Kennedy. Okay. I'm gone way over. Thanks for your 
indulgence, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Welch. Thank you. I want to thank my colleagues for 
the work that you've done, and I do hope, Senator Kennedy, that 
we get those bills on the floor and have a chance to vote on 
them. You've done a lot of work on that, Senator Cornyn, and 
I'm very supportive of what you've done.
    Senator Kennedy. Well, I've suggested a way, Mr. Chairman, 
that we can get them on the floor, that--I'm not trying to step 
on----
    Senator Welch. Talk to your friend, the majority leader.
    Senator Kennedy. I'm not trying to step on Senator 
Schumer's toes, by any stretch. The door----
    Senator Welch. Let's go back to the issue here.
    Senator Kennedy [continuing]. Swings both ways.
    Senator Welch. Thank you. You know, the bottom line here is 
the cost of health care in this country is killing folks. It is 
such a brutal, punitive burden on everyone, and that's for 
citizens in all of our States, folks who are having trouble 
paying the rent or they're having trouble paying for groceries. 
They can't afford--they can't even dream about owning a house. 
And when I was visiting with some employers in Vermont this 
week, they told me that the cost of a family plan for an 
employee is $40,000. That's 20 bucks an hour. All right? And 
the biggest driver in health care costs are Pharma costs, 
prescription drugs. And whether you want to call it abuse or 
gaming, the fact is, people can't afford it, and it is not 
sustainable.
    And the reality, too, is that Pharma's got a pretty sweet 
deal. It's got a guaranteed market, with Medicare, with 
Medicaid, with the VA. It's got employer-sponsored health care, 
and our employers in Vermont and around the country--they 
really care about having good health care for their employees. 
That's important to them. And then they've got the taxpayer-
funded research, which is often the hardest, most risky 
research, that the NIH does, that elemental research, as 
opposed to the--about marketing and what devices and how to 
package it. And then, of course, you've got the patent system 
that we're talking about today, where there needs to be reform. 
And there's been a lot of bipartisan effort here on this 
Committee to do it.
    Let me just ask a few questions. Dr. Feldman, let's talk 
about Ozempic--yes. Am I pronouncing that right?
    Dr. Feldman. Yes.
    Senator Welch. Yes. What I understand is that you have done 
research, a lot, on this particular drug, and that you--as we 
know, it costs 936 bucks a month in the U.S., only 147 in 
Canada, and $83 in France. That's a huge expense for our 
employers and for our taxpayers. And last year Novo Nordisk 
made 13.9 billion in sales from Ozempic, 60 percent coming from 
the U.S. So, we're just paying an enormous amount. But on the 
patents--and you have researched this, I understand--there's 25 
patents, and only 4 are for an active ingredient. Can you just 
explain what that means?
    Dr. Feldman. Yes. That's exactly right. So, over the years, 
Novo Nordisk has obtained and listed in the Orange Book 25 
patents on this drug.
    Senator Welch. And how many for the active ingredients?
    Dr. Feldman. And so 21 are on the delivery device. On the 
delivery device: the injector pen technology that is used for 
patients to self-administer the medication. The other four 
patents are non-device patents: two on the active ingredients 
and then two on methods of use or formulations. And so I think 
it's a perfect illustration of the problem. You have 25 
patents; 21 on these delivery devices. The FTC has said, these 
patents should never have been listed in the Orange Book in the 
first place, and, you know, the brand name firms already are 
suing for infringement. They're litigating these brands.
    Senator Welch. Okay. So, I have a bill that I introduced 
with Senator Klobuchar and Senator Braun to streamline the drug 
patent litigation by limiting the number of terminally 
disclaimed patents a drug company can assert. And the U.S. 
Patent Office, as you mentioned, Professor Rai, instituted a 
rule. But that legislation that would essentially limit that 
thicket--can you comment on your view on that legislation and 
how it would be helpful or not?
    Dr. Feldman. Yes. I think it's a great piece of 
legislation. The idea is that currently the Patent Office is 
required to reject patents that are obvious follow-ons from 
other patents, but companies can use these terminal 
disclaimers, which say, okay, the patent will expire at the 
same time as other patents.
    Senator Welch. Right. Thank you.
    Dr. Feldman. And I think by limiting litigation on these 
patents to one per family, I think it could promote----
    Senator Welch. Thank you.
    Dr. Feldman [continuing]. Timely competition.
    Senator Welch. And, Professor Ulrich, you know, I listened 
carefully to your testimony, and it's the same testimony I've 
been listening to for over a decade, and that is, the sky is 
falling if we do anything that will interfere with the magic of 
Pharma. But do you know how much the top 15 biggest drug 
companies reported in revenue in the first quarter of 2024? 
There's 173 billion? Does that sound about right?
    Ms. Ulrich. I'm sorry, I don't have that figure in front of 
me.
    Senator Welch. Well, it's 173 billion. And of that, about 
14 percent--25 billion--was spent on research. By the way, that 
isn't specified as to whether it's for a new molecule or a 
combination of an active ingredient or marketing. Novo brought 
in 9.5 billion in the first quarter and spent only 1.2 billion 
on R&D. Do you know how much Novo spent on shareholder 
dividends and buybacks? Yes. Four and a half billion dollars. 
So, there is a question here, with the advertising 
expenditures, with the shareholder buybacks and the dividends. 
Is there room for companies to consider maybe giving the 
consumers and the taxpayers a fairer price?
    Professor Rai, a recent study at the University of Texas 
focused on improving the patent approval process found that if 
the patent examiners were given more time to examine the 
secondary patent applications, it could save consumers up to $5 
billion. Could you comment on that?
    Professor Rai. Absolutely. That study was conducted by a 
PhD scientist and a PhD economist, one of whom is at Duke. And 
it is an impeccable study. I think that it's bulletproof, and 
examiners need to be given more time. What that means, however, 
is that the Patent Office will have to raise fees, because it 
is entirely fee funded. I think that's a very wise use of the 
patent agency's fee-setting authority.
    Senator Welch. Thank you. Senator Cornyn.
    Senator Cornyn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Listening to the 
testimony today reminded me of a quote from H.L. Mencken, who 
said that for every complex problem, there's a solution that's 
simple, neat, and wrong. So, that may be why I find myself 
agreeing with all of you, bits and pieces of what you say, but 
also disagree with all of you in other respects. But let me see 
if I can find some common ground here.
    So, I'm a big believer in our patent system, and I believe 
the exclusivity that is provided to people who discover new 
lifesaving drugs ought to be protected. But at the same time, 
I'm angry when I look at the abuse of the patent system by 
filing as many as 165 patents for something like Humira. And, 
Dr. Feldman, when you mentioned that some of these patents have 
nothing to do with the active ingredients in the drug but 
rather the delivery devices--in other words, you take a pill as 
opposed to some aerosol you inhale or whatever--that this then 
prevents these incredible lifesaving drugs from being more 
readily available and affordable to Americans.
    But at the same time, I recognize that if there wasn't the 
promise of a big financial payoff for the people that do this 
research--and I think somebody mentioned 12 percent--Ms. 
Ulrich, maybe that was you--actual success rate--so, that means 
that 78 or--excuse me, 88 percent of the drugs investigated 
actually fail, which is one reason why Pharma spends so much 
money on R&D, hoping to hit gold, I guess, for that 12 percent. 
So, I find myself sort of torn, back and forth, and maybe 
that's the reason why we are where we are.
    But I do agree with Senator Kennedy. Senator Schumer could 
put these bills on the floor today, if he wanted to. And, Mr. 
Mitchell, you're being way too kind in terms of how busy you 
think we are here. We're working about two and a half days a 
week and hardly breaking a sweat, so we have a lot more room to 
grow and capacity to deal with important problems like this. 
And taking up and passing bipartisan bills would be pretty 
remarkable. And in addition to the ones we've talked about 
here, the Finance Committee has done a lot of work, Ms. Ulrich, 
on the pharmacy benefit managers that you addressed.
    The 20-year patent system does not--there's a problem, I 
think--and you tell me if it's a problem, Ms. Ulrich. So, you 
get 20 years' exclusivity, but you may not have a full 20 years 
of exclusivity because you can't actually sell the drug until 
the FDA approves it. So, there's a lag time, frequently. And I 
think you said effectively the 20 years is 13 years; is that 
correct?
    Ms. Ulrich. Yes, for small molecule drugs it's around 13 
years on average.
    Senator Cornyn. I know that Hatch-Waxman, many years ago, 
tried to sort of figure out how to deal with that, but it 
strikes me as that may be some area where we ought to be able 
to give patentholders the effective use of their patents 
longer, by making sure that the period of the exclusivity ran 
from the time that it actually was available to be sold, as 
opposed to when it's patented. But that maybe is another 
discussion for another day.
    Mr. Mitchell, do you--let me just say I, too, wish you 
well. I'm glad we live in a country where you can get access to 
lifesaving drugs. What I've always been told, though, is that 
the way that some of these countries, like in Europe, for 
example, that have national health care systems, deal with this 
is they restrict the formulary--that is, the drugs that are 
actually available. Do you know whether the drugs that you 
take, that are saving your life, would be available to you if 
you lived, for example, in Europe? My understanding is----
    Mr. Mitchell. Most----
    Senator Cornyn [continuing]. The EU only has about 40 
percent----
    Mr. Mitchell. I'd have to check country by country, but for 
the most part, the principal medications for myeloma are 
available abroad. I do think there's an important issue that 
you're touching on, and Professor Rai started to talk about it, 
and that is very important to me, as someone who needs 
innovation. Patent abuse inhibits innovation. If drug companies 
can raise prices on old drugs that should have competition but 
don't, and they can raise them at will, then they have much 
less incentive to invest in the risky innovative work that can 
produce new drugs that can extend life.
    Senator Cornyn. You and I are of one mind on that.
    Mr. Mitchell. And so I don't want to just----
    Senator Cornyn. The Chairman's going to cut me off because 
my time is up. Let me ask one last question. Does the fact 
that, according to the most recent figures I've seen, that 40 
percent of the active ingredients in the drugs that Americans 
consume in this country come from China--does that concern you? 
After COVID, we became very concerned about supply chain 
vulnerability, and it strikes me that's a vulnerability. Is 
that not a problem, or is that a problem? Anybody have a view 
on that?
    Professor Rai. It is a problem. Yes.
    Senator Cornyn. It seems like it.
    Professor Rai. Yes.
    Senator Cornyn. I would think so. And----
    Professor Rai. Indeed, it is.
    Senator Cornyn [continuing]. Maybe there'd be a way for us 
to do more of that producing----
    Professor Rai. Well, the FDA needs more resources.
    Senator Cornyn [continuing]. More of those active 
ingredients here in America. I'm sure it's a financial 
decision.
    Professor Rai. The FDA needs more resources.
    Senator Cornyn. Okay. Thank you.
    Senator Welch. Senator Coons.
    Senator Coons. Thank you, Chairman Welch. And I am sorry 
that I had two other Committee hearings at the same moment. I 
know this has been an important and robust conversation about a 
matter of great significance to all of us. I agree with my 
colleagues that we have to do more to reduce the very high 
price of prescription drugs in the United States. They remain 
too high for my own constituents. In fact, it's often the first 
thing I hear from in town halls, and I do think the Inflation 
Reduction Act has made dramatic process in this direction. 
There's more yet to be done, and I'm hoping we can still get 
more done in this Congress.
    I do believe that there are other factors than patents at 
work, in terms of high prescription drug prices, and as we've 
discussed, my core concern is that the patent system applies to 
a very wide range of products and goods, not just 
pharmaceuticals. And so what reforms or changes are made in 
order to pursue reduction in drug prices I hope do not harm the 
foundation of the patent system, that protects everything from 
roof shingles to batteries to electric vehicles to paint 
coatings--I mean, thousands and thousands of innovative 
products and services.
    So, let me, if I might, first just ask a question. 
Professor Mossoff, as I was leaving to the other hearing, you 
were talking about Bayh-Dole march-in rights, and I don't get 
the sense that you've come back to that at all. The core issue 
I had with the direction that NIST went in allowing pricing for 
Bayh-Dole march-in rights is it doesn't just apply to 
prescription drugs. It applies to everything. So, any company 
who invents or any researcher who invents anything is now 
potentially open to the Federal Government saying, I want that, 
and I don't agree with the price you're setting for it. Is that 
accurate?
    Professor Mossoff. Yes. It's entirely accurate.
    Senator Coons. And are there breakthroughs in other sectors 
unrelated to pharmaceutical or therapeutics or vaccines where 
you think having a price-based march-in right regime would put 
innovation at risk?
    Professor Mossoff. Oh, certainly. I think, you know, every 
sector of the innovation economy, from high tech to even areas 
of the manufacturing base, are threatened by this. It 
completely destabilizes patents as property rights, when you 
cannot rely on this with certainty, going forward, that the 
government won't step in at any particular point in time, 
decide arbitrarily you're charging too high of a price, and 
therefore interfere with your ability to contract in the 
market----
    Senator Coons. Is there----
    Professor Mossoff [continuing]. Your product.
    Senator Coons [continuing]. Compelling evidence that the 
highest priced prescription drugs or majority prescription 
drugs would actually have their prices brought down by having 
march-in rights available to the Federal Government?
    Professor Mossoff. Thank you for that question, because 
that's an excellent question. And the actual studies show that 
actually very few percentage of prescription drugs are actually 
covered by the Bayh-Dole Act. It's around approximately 1 
percent is the last number that I saw. And so you would not see 
any effect in prescription drug prices with the adoption of 
this radical systemic change to the patent system, where you 
would have the ability of any government agency to march in and 
to dictate prices in the private market on any product or 
service.
    Senator Coons. One of the five bipartisan bills I think 
that is ready for action is one related to PBMs, Senator 
Grassley's Prescription Pricing for the People Act, which would 
provide transparency about anticompetitive practices by PBMs. 
I'd be interested in whether I missed a compelling conversation 
about PBMs and their role in the marketplace. Dr. Feldman, if 
you would, do the existing PBM structures make any sense, in 
your view? And what role, if any, do they play in keeping 
prices unnaturally high for U.S. consumers?
    Dr. Feldman. Thank you for the question, Senator. The short 
answer to your question is, they make no sense. I think that 
the current PBM structures make no sense. We have a system that 
rewards these high rebates--so, high list prices, high rebates 
that ultimately affect out-of-pocket costs for patients, that--
for folks who don't have insurance, they don't have access to 
these rebates. You have spread pricing, where PBMs are 
collecting more than they're actually charging the pharmacies; 
keeping the difference. So, I think there are a lot of problems 
with PBMs.
    There's fundamentally a lack of transparency that makes it 
very hard for researchers, like several of us up here, to do 
our work, because we don't know what the actual prices of these 
drugs cost. So, I think the bill out of your Committee--there 
are several bills that address bad behavior from PBMs; are 
important. I will say PBMs are negotiating discounts, and so 
whatever legislation you all pursue, you don't want it to 
undermine the ability to get discounts, but I'm in full 
agreement--to go back to--the very simple answer is, it is not 
a functioning system.
    Senator Coons. It's a very complex, multistep system, where 
the numbers of steps between innovation and manufacturing and 
price at the prescription counter has a whole series of steps. 
Last, I'm a co-sponsor of Senator Durbin's Interagency Patent 
Coordination and Improvement Act and could not agree more that 
better communication between FDA and PTO can help improve a 
patent examiner's finding of prior art.
    I agree with you, Professor. PTO needs to raise its fees in 
order to give examiners more time to do a more thorough job. 
Patent quality is something I would hope we all agree on. I'd 
just be interested in whether you think there's either other 
agencies the PTO director ought to be coordinating with or 
there's more we could do to improve collaboration between the 
PTO and the FDA. And I recognize I'm over my time.
    Professor Rai. So, yes to everything you're saying, and 
there's a laundry list of other agencies that the PTO could 
collaborate with, but since we're focused on drug pricing, I 
think FDA is the most important one.
    Senator Coons. Thank you. Thank you for this hearing.
    Senator Welch. Thank you.
    Senator Coons. I look forward to following up with you.
    Senator Welch. Thank you very much. Senator Ossoff.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to 
our panelists for joining us today. And, Professor Mossoff, we 
should perhaps determine whether we're distant cousins.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Ossoff. I am grateful to you all for your 
expertise. Dr. Feldman, I want to discuss with you the prices 
that Georgians are paying for inhalers: children on Medicaid, 
seniors on Medicare, and everybody in between. First, I just 
want to note generally the prices that Georgians are paying for 
prescriptions are outrageous.
    The stories that come to me in my office are shocking, from 
a constituent who, right now, is having difficulty making ends 
meet and affording cancer treatment, who watched their own 
friend die from being unable to afford cancer treatment; a 
veteran in Georgia who right now is having to scrape together 
thousands of dollars per month in order to afford leukemia 
treatment; kids and seniors with asthma or COPD who are having 
to pay exorbitant prices for inhalers; medical devices across 
the board. And the tremendous lobbying power of the 
pharmaceutical industry is a major driver of the outrageous 
prices that Americans pay. And of course there's a balance that 
we have to strike between making sure that research and 
development and innovation are rewarded and the interests of 
patients and consumers, but this country is not getting the 
balance right.
    We made big progress, capping the cost of insulin for 
seniors on Medicare Part D at $35 a month, finally empowering 
Medicare to undertake some negotiation with Pharma over prices, 
but we have a long way to go. And let's talk for a moment, Dr. 
Feldman, about inhalers. And I know that some voluntary caps 
are now in place, but Medicare, Medicaid--still not 
participating in that. You've seen countless patients--you're a 
pulmonologist, correct?
    Dr. Feldman. That's right.
    Senator Ossoff. And so you've seen countless patients 
dealing with serious life-threatening asthma and COPD. Is that 
right?
    Dr. Feldman. That's correct.
    Senator Ossoff. How long have inhalers been on the market?
    Dr. Feldman. The first metered-dose inhaler was approved by 
the FDA in 1956.
    Senator Ossoff. 1956. In the last few decades, have the 
active ingredients in these devices substantially changed?
    Dr. Feldman. No. Since 1986, there have been no inhalers 
for asthma or COPD with a new mechanism of action. That means, 
of the dozens upon dozens of brand name inhalers that've been 
approved, not a single one has an active ingredient that is 
fundamentally different from other active ingredients in the 
same class.
    Senator Ossoff. For three and a half decades, you're 
saying, the active ingredients have been basically the same?
    Dr. Feldman. That's right. Some tweaks to the molecules 
where you get new active ingredients in--but in the same class, 
and so fundamentally no major breakthroughs in terms of 
managing these diseases, from inhalers.
    Senator Ossoff. So, why are so many Georgians and so many 
Americans still paying hundreds of dollars for these devices?
    Dr. Feldman. I think it comes back to really what we're 
focused on in this hearing today, which is these problematic 
patenting practices, product hops, where companies are taking 
decades-old active ingredients, getting patent protection for 
the delivery devices, for other aspects of the products, and it 
allows them to keep prices high by limiting generic 
competition.
    Senator Ossoff. So, product hopping or device hopping--just 
for the folks tuned in from Georgia, define that in a nutshell.
    Dr. Feldman. That's where you take the same ingredient or 
set of ingredients and put them from an old delivery device 
into a new delivery device that may be no better than the 
earlier one, but it does have new patents. So, it allows you to 
move people from an old device to a new device, if you're a 
brand name company, earn a lot more revenue by doing so but to 
no benefit for patients.
    Senator Ossoff. And so that patent, based upon no 
innovation of the underlying medicine, some nominal innovation 
of a device, then boxes out competitors, generics, and helps 
keep prices high, right?
    Dr. Feldman. That's exactly right.
    Senator Ossoff. Now, I do want to note some manufacturers 
have agreed to cap out-of-pocket costs for inhalers. Does that 
apply to Medicaid or Medicare?
    Dr. Feldman. It does not. Those caps do not apply to 
Medicare and Medicaid.
    Senator Ossoff. So, for a kid on PeachCare in Georgia; for 
a senior--and I think, according to my notes here, one in nine 
Medicare beneficiaries have COPD--those caps don't apply?
    Dr. Feldman. That's correct.
    Senator Ossoff. Where else do we see this practice of 
device hopping or product hopping?
    Dr. Feldman. We see it, really, for all drug device 
combinations. What are drug device combinations? Those include 
products like insulin pens, inhalers, EpiPens, GLP-1 receptor 
agonists, that Senator Welch was asking about. So, it seems 
like kind of a niche set of products, but in fact, if you look 
at the top 50 drugs by Medicare spending in 2022, by gross 
spending, 40 percent are actually drug device combinations.
    Senator Ossoff. Yes. Just about every family in Georgia has 
had to think, at some point, about--do I need to carry around 
an EpiPen for my child who has an allergy? Do I need to 
purchase an inhaler for my child with asthma or for a 
grandparent suffering from COPD? And yet these abusive 
practices, where there's not innovation on the underlying drug 
but there's some nominal change in the product, is boxing out 
competition and keeping prices high. And this is, Mr. Chairman, 
a place where I hope we can achieve some bipartisan consensus, 
to make progress for Georgians who are struggling for these 
basic medical products. Thank you, Dr. Feldman.
    Dr. Feldman. Thank you.
    Senator Welch. Senator Butler.
    Senator Butler. Thank you so much, Chairman, and thank you 
to all of you for coming. It's an incredibly important issue 
for Americans all over the country, particularly for folks 
living in my State, and so I appreciate all the work that you 
all are doing here. Couple questions, just really quickly.
    I think I want to direct this question, if it's okay, to 
you, Dr. Feldman. Across our country, many families are 
choosing now between putting food on the table and purchasing 
those lifesaving health care drugs and medication--all the 
things that we have been talking about throughout today's 
hearing--paying nearly three times as much on prescription 
drugs compared to families in peer countries. Dr. Feldman, as a 
physician, how have you seen high prescription drug costs not 
only impact patients but affect the livelihood and financial 
stability of the full family?
    Dr. Feldman. Thank you for that question. I have. You know, 
we often think about, as physicians, how these high out-of-
pocket costs affect that patient. Are they going to take the 
medication? You know, I spend a lot of my time--when I'm 
practicing, I work in the medical intensive care unit. We 
admitted a patient recently who had diabetes and was there with 
DKA, diabetic ketoacidosis, which can be a fatal complication 
of not taking your insulin. I asked her what happened, and she 
said, I just couldn't afford my insulin. And I think as 
physicians we're laser focused on the problems for the patient, 
but there is no question that every dollar that is spent on 
those high out-of-pocket costs for patients mean a dollar less 
that they can spend on getting food, clothing for their kids, 
for their loved ones. So, I think it's an important point that 
we probably don't think enough about.
    Senator Butler. I appreciate you acknowledging it. You're 
right; there's lots of conversation among practitioners about 
the patient complying with the medication orders and managing 
their health. And the unintended consequences that making those 
choices have across the full family then also potential lead to 
the, you know, young person not being able to sort of have the 
resources to meet their sort of full impact in life. So, I 
appreciate you talking about it. Are there particular 
populations that you think that are disproportionately touched 
by these kinds of financial burdens, just in the patient 
population that you've seen or experienced that we need to be 
thinking about specifically?
    Dr. Feldman. All of the issues that we're talking about 
today have disproportionate effects on the most disadvantaged 
members of our society. Where do we see the highest rates of 
asthma, of COPD, of diabetes? It's in already disadvantaged 
groups of patients. And I think a big motivation for my work is 
trying to address these problems, to resolve some of these 
disparities. You know, we've talked a lot about different 
proposals. It can feel very lofty, a lot of these conversations 
we're having about the patent system. At the end of the day, 
we're talking about expensive medications for people who can't 
afford them and it disproportionately hurting certain members 
of our society in ways that I think are problematic.
    Senator Butler. And this is a line of questioning that I 
wanted to get to, because I do think that there are a lot of--
there's a lot of complexity, as was noted in the first 
witness's offerings. There's a lot of complexity to the systems 
and the laws, as we're--and consequences, intentional and 
unintentional, around the bureaucracy, and so often we can lose 
sight of the people, as we try to navigate the morass of the 
process. And so I wanted to make sure that, for those who are 
taking, you know, an hour to watch C-SPAN, whose issue--but 
whose lives are very much impacted by the cost of medication--
that we give them an opportunity to remind ourselves that, at 
the end of the day, this is about the American people as 
opposed to the complexity of the process. And so if there was 
one patient that you could offer their story for consideration, 
I'd love to give you my last 10 seconds to talk about and offer 
that one story.
    Dr. Feldman. Yes. You know, I'm thinking about a patient 
that I saw when I was a fellow in pulmonary medicine. And, you 
know, it's hard to talk about costs with patients. A lot of 
patients are embarrassed. People don't want to talk about the 
fact that they can't afford their medications. But I remember 
talking with her, and rather than using inhalers, which are 
more convenient, which she could not afford, she was using--
cobbling together therapies via a nebulizer, which is not 
something we've talked about, but it's basically where the 
ingredients are sold separately. And they can work, but it 
just--her story sticks out in my mind because, Number one, it 
was hard for her to talk about; Number two, she couldn't use 
the medications that we prescribed. She had to use a medication 
that takes longer to administer; you have to do it at home.
    And, you know, it's exactly like I was saying before. The 
most disadvantaged members of society are the ones who are 
affected by these patent games. I think if we want to address 
racial disparities, socioeconomic disparities, we have a lot to 
do in this country, but everything we're talking about here 
today is a way of doing that.
    Senator Butler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Welch. Senator Klobuchar.
    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and 
thank you for the work that we've done together on the 
negotiation--Medicare prices. We're so pleased. I was hearing 
you talk, Mr. Mitchell, about Eliquis, one of the drugs, as you 
know, that's now being negotiated, of the ten blockbusters, 
with many more to come.
    I want to start, though, with one of the issues--a bill 
that still hasn't passed, that Senator Grassley and I have been 
working on for a really long time, which I know he mentioned, 
pay-for-delay. And as you know, Mr. Mitchell, anticompetitive 
pay-for-delay settlement, where a branded Pharma company pays 
off a generic or biosimilar company to delay the introduction 
of the competing drug product, is, sadly, a common practice. 
Our bill--it's called Preserve Access to Affordable Generics 
and Biosimilars Act--strikes a balance between targeting 
anticompetitive settlements while allowing procompetitive 
patent settlements to proceed and saving an estimated 1.6 
billion--1.6 billion--over 10 years. Mr. Mitchell, you 
mentioned the drug that you depend on, Revlimid, that was 
caught up in a pay-for-delay settlement, as I understand. How 
did that affect the cost of the drug for you personally? How do 
pay-for-delay deals keep the cost of prescription drugs high 
for patients, generally?
    Mr. Mitchell. I took Revlimid for five and a half years, 
and during the time I took the drug, both the price--underlying 
price--and my out-of-pocket rose dramatically. By the way, 
Revlimid was the second-most expensive drug for Medicare, until 
it began to have competition in the last year--to treat only 
39,000 patients: the second-most expensive drug for Medicare, 
at $5.4 billion.
    When the drug company that owns the patent decided to let 
competition come on the market, it limited the generics to a 
lower market share, 10 percent each for the first two 
competitors. If you have a limited market share as part of the 
deal, you will not lower your price because you cannot gain 
market share. What happens then is the brand drug company and 
the two generics, in the case of Revlimid, shared the monopoly, 
and the price didn't come down. This is a pay-for-delay deal. 
This is making an arrangement to say, we won't fight you in 
court; instead, we'll give you a market share limited deal, and 
you will make a whole lot of money for a few years while we 
delay real competition.
    Senator Klobuchar. Very good description. Thank you. 
Turning to another issue that has been discussed today--that's 
sham FDA petitions. Dr. Feldman, this practice risks delaying 
the approval of generic drugs and biosimilars and poses 
unnecessary burdens on FDA resources, to add to everything 
else, when they have so much to do. Senator Grassley, again, 
and I introduced a bill, the Stop STALLING Act, to give the FTC 
enhanced authority to crack down on abuses of this process, 
while allowing petitions submitted in good faith to raise 
legitimate health and safety concerns. CBO estimates that the 
bill would save taxpayers 400 million over 10 years. As you 
know, both of these bills have gone through this Committee on a 
voice vote. Which types of entities file the majority of 
citizen petitions challenging FDA approval of generic or 
biosimilars, Dr. Feldman?
    Dr. Feldman. Brand name drug companies.
    Senator Klobuchar. Okay. And can you elaborate on the harms 
to patients and competition caused when Pharma companies use a 
citizen petition process to delay entry of competing drugs?
    Dr. Feldman. Yes.
    Senator Klobuchar. I just find it ironic, indeed, when it's 
a citizen petition process, and the citizens are getting 
screwed by it, but continue on.
    Dr. Feldman. I have felt that same irony, myself. So, first 
of all, we should say that companies are doing this because 
every day of delay for some of these blockbuster drugs can be 
worth millions or tens of millions of dollars for the company. 
So, there's a strong incentive to do this. And basically what 
happens is the brand name pharmas will wait until the right 
moment to put a question to the FDA to request that they not 
approve a generic medication. And it slows things down. And 
every day that we slow things down is more revenue for the 
brand name manufacturers, but it's one less day that patients 
get access to generic drugs. And we know that generic drugs are 
the number one way to lower prices in this country. It is a way 
to bring down costs for patients. So, I think it's a good bill, 
and as you said, these are not citizen petitions. They are put 
out there by the companies for economic gain.
    Senator Klobuchar. Last, Professor Rai, the price of 25 
brand name medications that Medicare spends the most on--some 
of which are negotiated, of course, right now or in 
negotiations--have, on average, tripled in price since they hit 
the market. You have written that Medicare price negotiations 
will promote the entry of new drugs by reducing the incentives 
for brand drug companies to engage in anticompetitive patent 
strategies that can allow for these price increases.
    So, this is kind of where our Medicare negotiations, that 
is almost an outcome of all of this bad activity, sort of hits 
the road and combines with this patent problem. How will 
requiring drug companies to negotiate prices with Medicare--as 
I said, with more on the road--despite lawsuits going on right 
now all over the country to try to stop us, which seems 
unbelievable to me, given that Congress is the one that made 
the deal, and Congress can change a deal--how will requiring 
drug companies to negotiate prices with Medicare deter Pharma 
companies from playing patent life-cycle games to preserve high 
prices and facilitate entry of competitors and further reduce 
prices?
    Professor Rai. So, I think the Inflation Reduction Act is 
one of the most important patent reforms of the 21st Century, 
and the reason is this. It finally places a time limit, at 
least for Medicare, on how long you can extend an old drug, 
which means that you have to come up with new drugs, truly new 
drugs. And that is a game changer, it seems to me, and I wish 
it was only--more than ten drugs, and it is increasing, 
fortunately, but I think that's how it spurs innovation. And 
Dr. Feldman noted this, as well, or Mr. Mitchell noted this 
point, as well--that it spurs innovation, to prevent patent 
abuse.
    Senator Klobuchar. Very good. Thank you. I'll turn it back 
to the Chair.
    Senator Welch. Thank you. Thank you very much, Senator 
Klobuchar. Senator Tillis.
    Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I apologize 
for not being here sooner. I am under the weather. I have 
tested; I do not have COVID. But I wanted to make sure the room 
was cleared before I came in to speak, but this is clearly a 
hearing I needed to come to, based on the work that we do on 
the Intellectual Property Subcommittee. I have been watching 
the hearing. I want to associate myself with the comments from 
my Chair and colleague on the Intellectual Property 
Subcommittee, Senator Coons. I am a really boring person, 
because I really try to do my best to not be sensational, to be 
fact based, to drive my decisions. It's one of the reasons why 
I'm shocked that I've actually won the elections that I've run, 
because I tend to want to get into the nitty, gritty details.
    So, I'm only going to spend a few minutes, and then 
hopefully--do you need to get that? Kidding. He's my staff. I 
want to talk--Number one, the Inflation Reduction Act was 
heralded as a great thing. There're actually some good things 
in the Inflation Reduction Act. I don't necessarily hear a lot 
of people lauding the fact that we've had a double-digit 
reduction in small molecule research, and we've actually even 
had board meetings where investors have been told, we're de-
emphasizing this. Does anybody disagree that the Inflation 
Reduction Act--the decisions in there around drug pricing--does 
anybody think that there isn't a nexus between that and the 
reduction in small molecule research? And of course I'm going 
to first go to the person who's from North Carolina here. 
Professor?
    Professor Rai. So, thank you for that question. I'm so glad 
you followed-on from Senator Klobuchar on that question. I 
believe that small molecules need greater incentives, and the 
way to do that is to establish parity between small molecules--
--
    Senator Tillis. Okay. I understand that, but----
    Professor Rai [continuing]. And biologics.
    Senator Tillis [continuing]. I'm getting to the fundamental 
question: Do you agree or disagree that there appears to be a 
nexus between the well intentioned drug pricing policies in the 
Inflation Reduction Act and a reduction in investment in small 
molecule research?
    Professor Rai. So, I have no idea why the IRA----
    Senator Tillis. Yes.
    Professor Rai [continuing]. Limited small molecule----
    Senator Tillis. Mr. Mossoff, could----
    Professor Rai [continuing]. To 9 years----
    Senator Tillis [continuing]. You opine on that?
    Professor Rai [continuing]. Versus 13 years for biologics.
    Professor Mossoff. I think it makes complete sense that if 
you impose what is essentially effectively a price control 
system----
    Senator Tillis. Yes.
    Professor Mossoff [continuing]. On the sale of drugs, that 
price controls destroy and undermine----
    Senator Tillis. Yes.
    Professor Mossoff [continuing]. Markets. This is well 
established in economics.
    Senator Tillis. Could I ask a more--Ms. Ulrich, can--we saw 
drug prices listed here, and they're unacceptably high, but is 
that a drug price that was set by the pharmaceutical company, 
or is that what happens through the sausage meal value chain 
that starts with an investigational--a promising compound, an 
investigational new drug, clinical trial monitoring, 
manufacturing, pharmacy benefit managers, insurance companies, 
doctors, and a patient? Which one of those is true? A big, bad 
pharmaceutical company sets their price, or that whole sausage 
factory occurs before you know what the price is?
    Ms. Ulrich. Well, thank you, Senator Tillis. We would agree 
that there is a large sausage-making process, but largely----
    Senator Tillis. So, if you want----
    Ms. Ulrich [continuing]. It's composed by PBMs.
    Senator Tillis [continuing]. The sausage to taste 
differently, you've got to have all the components in the----
    Ms. Ulrich. That's right.
    Senator Tillis [continuing]. Value chain at the table, 
right?
    Ms. Ulrich. That's right.
    Senator Tillis. Right. So, how on earth can we give a pass 
to the pharmacy benefit managers, when we're taking a look at 
the end price of a drug and try to figure out why it costs what 
it costs? Right? Now, the other thing--and Mr. Mitchell, I wish 
you the very best. You've got a more aggressive disease, but I 
too have an incurable, potentially fatal disease that I don't 
have to manage with drugs now, but I understand a modicum of 
what you're going through, and I'm sure it must be challenging 
for you and your family.
    But I do believe that there was a point made here that's 
very important: The price of that drug, through your health 
care system, that's not available in a formulary in other 
countries, is zero, and the reason for that is because you 
can't get the drug. Now, I know your answer to that question--
that there are certain jurisdictions where you do have access 
to it, but there are some where you don't. Again, trying to get 
back to the facts, folks--we can't say we want to be just like 
fill-in-the-blank country, if fill-in-the-blank country doesn't 
give you that option through their single-payer health system.
    Mr. Mitchell. I think----
    Senator Tillis. Then you come here.
    Mr. Mitchell [continuing]. Senator Tillis--to remember that 
we use formularies in this country.
    Senator Tillis. Yes.
    Mr. Mitchell. Most employer-provided plans use formularies. 
The VA uses a formulary.
    Senator Tillis. I agree.
    Mr. Mitchell. And so it's----
    Senator Tillis. I'm getting more to the--I think we're 
being simplistic when we say we want to be just like fill-in-
the-blank. If we want to be just like fill-in-the-blank, then 
let's have our litigation systems just like other countries; 
let's have medical malpractice policies very similar. There are 
so many things that make us dissimilar that we've just got to 
be realistic about how far we're willing to go.
    But more importantly--I've been here for 10 years. The 
substance of this hearing is not materially different than the 
substance of hearings that I had in my first Congress here. So, 
why is it--you all make great points, and I agree with a lot of 
what you say. I agree, with qualifications, on other ones. I 
wanted to talk about the I-MAK, for example, Professor Mossoff. 
I'm not going to go too far over my time; I know I'm extending 
the hearing. But just getting data from the I-MAK, to a point--
I'm trying to get the U.S. PTO and the FDA just to take that 
information, distill it into something meaningful, because I 
believe today--and, Professor, I think we may disagree--that 
people are using it conveniently to build their case.
    But look, folks, I've been here for 10 years, now. We're 
not making progress. If anything, we've taken steps back 
because of well-intentioned provisions in the Inflation 
Reduction Act. We at least know that we are reducing incentives 
to invest and take risk. The majority of these projects, like--
I was in the tech space, so we knew that when we made a--well, 
I was in research and development. So, we knew that the 
majority of the ones that we're going forward with were going 
to be successful. It was just a technological change for, you 
know, products that we were going to make commercially 
available. Some of these things are billion-dollar investments 
that get put on ice after a while. I'm thinking about the much 
publicized Alzheimer's drug.
    I don't want to reduce innovation in this country, because 
people's lives are in the balance. Potentially a cure for the 
disease that you're going through; a cure for the disease that 
I'm challenged with--and so I feel very, very strongly that we 
need to stop talking past each other, finding one link in the 
value chain that we naively think is the way you solve this 
problem, and all agree that there are ways to increase 
availability and decrease the cost of prescription drugs--but 
it's not the simplistic approach to take in only one link in 
the chain at a time. And I would love, Mr. Chair, to find a 
damned drug that I could put up there that everybody is 
demonizing and start from the beginning, the entire investment, 
the whole history of the patent protection for that drug, the 
end user price, so that we could really start getting past 
these lovely discussions we have, once a Congress, maybe twice 
a Congress, and into something meaningful that helps the 
patient, who is the only person I care about: how we can save 
more of you, how we can do it on a more affordable basis.
    And we've got to start getting people to stop talking past 
each other, to get it done, or, Mr. Chair, I look forward to 
the next Congress having a hearing that's substantially the 
same information with substantially no progress. We've only 
taken steps back in the 10-years that I've been here. We 
haven't really made major leaps forward. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Senator Welch. Thank you. Senator Booker.
    Senator Booker. I want to thank the panelists for being 
here today. I really appreciated your testimony and the common-
sense input that you had. Mr. Mitchell, I was really moved by 
your testimony, frankly, because it's testimony I hear all the 
time, everywhere I go. About half of Americans take at least 
one prescription drug. For seniors, it's upwards of 80 percent 
of seniors are taking a prescription drug. And it is outrageous 
that about a quarter of Americans really have a difficult time 
affording those drugs, often for critical, lifesaving needs.
    I am stunned that we live in a world where the same drug 
can be sold, you know, two to four times higher. That means 
Americans are often paying four times as much. And it is 
stunning, when I hear people telling me what they do to cope. 
They delay refills. They ration their drugs. They are just 
forgoing taking the drugs. And what's fascinating to me is most 
people don't understand this often creates higher costs within 
our system.
    When a diabetic goes into diabetic shock, I know what 
that's like, because being a mayor, having a lot of my people 
end up in hospital emergency rooms because they were reducing 
their drug--they were rationing their insulin drug costs and 
ending up in a hospital emergency room, driving up the costs of 
our health care system. It is so outrageous to live in a nation 
that is the wealthiest nation on the planet Earth and have so 
many Americans suffering daily, making the most difficult 
decisions between paying rent, kids' tuition, food on the 
table, or taking their prescription drug.
    Now, I disagree with my colleague, because we've actually 
done some good things. The Biden administration has allowed 
Medicare to be able to negotiate prices for the first time. 
Insulin--I was just down in South Carolina, getting wild 
applause when we reminded people that the President and this 
Congress have capped insulin costs at $35 for people on 
Medicare. And for me, I was talking to a predominantly African-
American audience. Blacks are twice as likely than white 
Americans to forgo taking a prescription drug that they need. 
And next year, out-of-pocket costs for Medicare Part D will be 
capped at $2,000.
    So, I don't think we're wasting our time here, but I'm very 
frustrated to see how much lobbying money comes down here to 
try to stop us from doing things that are common sense. We can 
balance being the innovation capital of the world and having 
affordable prescription drugs for Americans. These are not 
counter. But right now I see games being played, gross profits 
being made because people are working the system. This is why 
I've introduced legislation that I've written, co-written; I've 
joined colleagues.
    We're about to reintroduce the Prescription Drug 
Affordability and Access Act in the coming months. Last 
Congress, I joined Senator Sanders and Senator Casey to 
introduce the Affordable and Safe Prescription Drug Importation 
Act. I'm proud to have joined my colleagues on this Committee, 
Senators Grassley and Klobuchar, on their Preserve Access to 
Affordable Generics and Biosimilars Act and the Stop STALLING 
Act. These are common-sense pieces of legislation that can make 
an extraordinarily big difference.
    I cannot tell you, Mr. Mitchell, how frustratingly common 
it is for me to be grabbed by somebody, when I'm out and about 
in multiple States, for them to tell me their stories. When I 
ran for President, I had people bring to me their bills, to 
show me what they were paying out of pocket. And then I'll 
never forget, in New Hampshire, the same person showing me 
their salary and explaining to me why they're putting their 
health in danger every single month because it does not add up.
    And so, Mr. Chairman, I know I'm spending more of my time 
speaking now, but when I read the testimonies and listened to 
some of the testimoneys today, there are just common-sense 
things that we could do to relieve this pressure, to save 
lives, to keep people out of emergency rooms, to keep families 
together and healthy. I just want to say, for the conclusion, 
the question Ms. Rai--and, Professor, I'm pronouncing that 
right? Rai?
    Professor Rai. No, Rai.
    Senator Booker. Rai. I thought I had it right.
    Professor Rai. You got it right. Yes.
    Senator Booker. Thank you. Ms. Rai. Like, I really think 
that President Biden is being an extraordinary actor in this 
space, and they're in the process, the Biden administration, of 
finalizing a proposed framework for exercising march-in rights 
on government-funded inventions, including prescription drugs 
that are priced out of reach for patients, despite having been 
invented at public universities, with public money, Federal 
grants, taxpayer dollars.
    And that's the thing that often frustrates me the most, 
because taxpayers are investing in these inventions, and then 
they're paying--they get no discount. They get no big--because 
of our country, but then they look at other nations, and these 
drugs that we invented, with our taxpayer dollars, are so much 
lower. So, I just want to hear your thoughts on this framework 
and on the prospect of the Biden administration using these 
rights to license generic competition on drugs that are priced 
two or three times, or more, than prices drug corporations 
charge in our peer nations.
    Professor Rai. So, I'm glad you asked that question. Thank 
you, Senator Booker. I think the NIST guidance is actually much 
more careful and modest than some of the critics would have it 
be. It's very carefully designed to target situations of price 
gouging, essentially, not the situations that have been 
discussed earlier, where, you know, for example, you need 
recoupment of your R&D costs for something legitimate, but 
rather situations of the sort where there is price gouging 
going on. And the NIST guidance is very careful to say price is 
a factor to consider. And agencies, just to be clear, have 
never used march-in rights. They've had march-in rights from 
the beginning. NIST has had march-in rights from the beginning; 
never been used. This is just a gentle nudge to suggest that 
sometimes, just sometimes, price could be a factor.
    Senator Booker. Thank you. And I'm just going to say, 
because there's an elephant in this room that we have not 
talked about, politicians--Senators and Congresspeople--should 
not be taking campaign contributions from industries that we 
regulate. It just shouldn't.
    I think I was the fourth Senator to say, no corporate PAC 
dollars; no Pharma C-suite money; no oil company money. I 
really think there's a problem in this institution with 
corporations coming here and throwing millions, if not hundreds 
of millions, of dollars into campaign war chests; and Citizens 
United, which allows dark money to be spent without any 
accountability or transparency--to not think that this is a 
major part of this problem and that we should pass laws to 
prevent that, or everyone should take a similar pledge--I 
really think that is an inhibitor to solving problems that have 
so frustrated Americans for so long and that seem to have 
such--as some of the commentary here--such obvious solutions, 
to drive down prices. Mr. Chairman, thank you for the latitude.
    Senator Welch. Thank you, Senator Booker. I want to thank 
the witnesses. You know, one of the extraordinary opportunities 
you have in this job is to hear from people like you, who have 
spent your careers studying things that are hard to learn 
about, and you shared that information with us, and hopefully 
it'll result in some action. But I just want to express my 
gratitude to each of you for the commitment you've made in your 
lives to, really, public service research and work.
    The hearing record will remain open for 1 week, for 
statements to be submitted to the record, and questions for the 
record may be submitted by Senators by 5 p.m. on Tuesday, May 
28.
    Senator Welch. Thank you all very much, and the hearing is 
adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:11 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
    [Additional material submitted for the record follows.]

                            A P P E N D I X

Submitted by Chair Durbin:

 Association for Accessible Medicines (AAM), Skinny Labeling, 
    statement.....................................................   165

 Bayh-Dole Coalition, Examining Competition in the Prescription 
    Drug Market...................................................   167

 Campaign for Sustainable Rx Pricing (CSRxP), statement...........   170

 Carrier, Michael A., Rutgers Law School, statement...............   176

 Conservatives for Property Rights (CPR), statement...............   179

 Council for Innovation Promotion (C4IP), Drug Prices.............   182

 Families USA, statement..........................................   186

 Generation Patient, statement....................................   191

 Incubate, statement..............................................   193

 National Association of Manufacturers (NAM), statement...........   195

 Tax Payer Protection Alliance (TPA), Prescription Drugs, 
    statement.....................................................   198

 Tu, S. Sean, West Virginia University College, statement.........   200


Submitted by Senator Coons:

 National Association of Manufacturers (NAM), statement...........   195

Submitted by Senator Tillis:

 Conservatives for Property Rights (CPR), statement...............   179

 Eagle Forum Education & Legal Defense Fund, statement............   202

 U.S. Startups and Inventors for Jobs (USIJ), Drug Pricing, 
    statement.....................................................   204

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