[Senate Hearing 118-532]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]






                                                        S. Hrg. 118-532

                          S. 4370 AND S. 4505

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               before the

                      COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                             JULY 25, 2024

                               __________

         Printed for the use of the Committee on Indian Affairs







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                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 
                 
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                      COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS

                     BRIAN SCHATZ, Hawaii, Chairman
                 LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska, Vice Chairman
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington           JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
JON TESTER, Montana                  STEVE DAINES, Montana
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada       MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma
TINA SMITH, Minnesota                MIKE ROUNDS, South Dakota
BEN RAY LUJAN, New Mexico
       Jennifer Romero, Majority Staff Director and Chief Counsel
                  Amber Ebarb, Minority Staff Director 
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                            C O N T E N T S

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                                                                   Page
Hearing held on July 25, 2024....................................     1
Statement of Senator Heinrich....................................     3
Statement of Senator Lujan.......................................     4
Statement of Senator Murkowski...................................     2
Statement of Senator Schatz......................................     1

                               Witnesses

Crockett, John, Associate Deputy Chief for State, Private, and 
  Tribal Forestry, U.S. Department of Agriculture................    10
    Prepared statement...........................................    12
Goodluck, Tracy Canard, Senior Advisor to the Assistant 
  Secretary--Indian Affairs, U.S. Department of the Interior.....     5
    Prepared statement...........................................     6
Padilla, Hon. Thora, President, Mescalero Apache Tribe...........    18
    Prepared statement...........................................    20
Phillips, Jr., Hon. Larry M., Governor, Pueblo of Ohkay Owingeh..    14
    Prepared statement...........................................    16
Mallott, Benjamin, President-Elect, Alaska Federation of Natives.    24
    Prepared statement...........................................    25

                                Appendix

Climate and Wildfire Institute and The Stewardship Project, 
  prepared statement.............................................    35
Response to written questions submitted by Hon. Brian Schatz to:
    John Crockett................................................    36
    Tracy Canard Goodluck........................................    37
    Benjamin Mallott.............................................    39
    Hon. Thora Padilla...........................................    41
Trujillo, Tanya, New Mexico Deputy State Engineer, prepared 
  statement......................................................    35

 
                          S. 4370 AND S. 4505

                              ----------                              


                        THURSDAY, JULY 25, 2024


                                       U.S. Senate,
                               Committee on Indian Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:12 p.m. in room 
628, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Brian Schatz, 
Chairman of the Committee, presiding.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BRIAN SCHATZ, 
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM HAWAII

    The Chairman. Good afternoon. Today we will receive 
testimony on two bills: S. 4370, Tribal Forest Protection Act 
Amendments of 2024; and S. 4505, Ohkay Owingeh Rio Chama Water 
Rights Settlement Act of 2024.
    S. 4370, Vice Chair Murkowski's bill, would amend the 
Tribal Forest Protection Act of 2004 by expanding eligibility 
for tribes to take on certain forest protection and restoration 
activities on Federal public lands from the Forest Service and 
the BLM. It would allow tribes to use TFPA funding to conduct 
these activities on their own tribal land and authorize Alaska 
Native corporations to manage Federal public lands and lands 
they own pursuant to the same authorities.
    S. 4505, Senator Heinrich's bill, would resolve the claims 
of the Ohkay Owingeh Pueblo water rights in the Rio Chama 
Stream System in New Mexico. The bill establishes an interest-
bearing trust fund to implement the negotiated settlement 
between the Pueblo and the United States and other interested 
parties.
    S. 4505 is one of several Indian water rights settlement 
bills introduced and referred to the Committee over the last 
two weeks. Recognizing that our Committee plays a key role in 
enacting such settlements, each deserves our keen consideration 
and due diligence.
    Before I turn to the Vice Chair for her opening statement, 
I would like to extend my welcome and thanks to our witnesses 
for joining us today. I look forward to your testimony and our 
discussion.
    Vice Chair Murkowski.

               STATEMENT OF HON. LISA MURKOWSKI, 
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM ALASKA

    Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I want to focus my comments this afternoon on S. 4370, this 
is the Tribal Forest Protection Act Amendments of 2024. This 
would modify and improve the Tribal Forest Protection Act of 
2004 to promote greater indigenous stewardship of Federal and 
Indian forest lands and range lands.
    I have introduced this because tribal lands and resources 
have become increasingly vulnerable to wildfire, to insect 
infestatation, other natural hazards that originate on Federal 
lands. So our legislation is intended to put tribes in the lead 
by strengthening the role of Native communiteis in Federal land 
managememnt so they can reduce threats to their own resources.
    I believe this measure is timely, it is well warranted. 
Thanks to the 2018 Farm Bill, projects proposed under the TFPA 
may be carried out through ISDEA funding agreements. We are 
seeing more interest in this underutilized tool.
    TFPA empowers tribes to harness indigenous knowledge and 
western science when conducting forest management projects, 
which of course are proven to reduce wildfire severity and 
restore forest ecosystems.
    But in the 20 years since TFPA was first enacted, wildfires 
are burning faster, hotter, and longer. And it is compounded by 
chronic mismanagement of forest lands by the Fedreal 
Government.
    According to the Intertribal Timber Council, nearly half a 
million acres of tribal lands are now consumed by fire each 
year. Too often these fires ignite on remote Federal lands and 
spread to tribal lands, endangering Native people, property, 
infrastructure, and cultural resources.
    TFPA does not currently allow tribes to conduct forest 
management activities on Federal land unless those lands are 
immediately adjacent to Indian lands. That limitation 
effectively blocks tribes from managing larger forest 
landscapes that they have cared for, and been physically and 
spiritually connected to for generations.
    Obviously, fire doesn't follow borders drawn on a map or 
any other strictures of law. So my bill would give tribes the 
flexibility to plan and implement forest health and management 
projects on Federal lands beyond those lands immediately 
adjacent to the reservation boundary.
    The legislation also includes a critical fix to TFPA which 
currently omits lands owned by Alaska Native villages and 
regional corporations. Without this fix, Alaska's ANCs, which 
own more than 44 million acres of land, are practically 
excluded from participation under the TFPA statute. This is not 
acceptable. The forested lands owned by ANCs are in every 
aspect Indian forest land. We have a unique legal framework in 
Alaska that governs Alaska Native communities, the Alaska 
Native Claims Settlement Act. But we should not be 
disadvantaged by it.
    So if we enact this, S. 4370 would allow Native communities 
in Alaska to apply their indigenous knowledge and skills to 
Federal forest land and to the 44 million acres of ANCSA lands 
that are currently off limits to tribal management under TFPA.
    So I am looking forward to the testimony from our 
witnesses, including the Department of Interior, which has 
offered very positive words and outright support for it. I am 
also looking forward to welcoming my friend, Ben Mallott, who 
has traveled to be here from Alaska.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Vice Chair Murkowski.
    We will now turn to the witnesses. We are happy to have 
Tracy Canard Goodluck, the Senior Advisor to the Asistant 
Secretary for Indian Affars at the Department of Interior; Mr. 
John Crockett, Associate Deputy Chief for State, Private, and 
Tribal Forestry at the Department of Agriculture. Senator 
Heinrich, if you would like to introduce one of our witnesses 
and make any opening statement, you would be welcome to do so.

              STATEMENT OF HON. MARTIN HEINRICH, 
                  U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW MEXICO

    Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman Schatz, and Vice 
Chair Murkowski, for holding this hearing on the Ohkay Owingeh 
Rio Chama Water Rights Settlement Act. I also want to express 
my enthusiasm for the Vice Chair's Veterinary Servcies bill, 
and look forward to working with you on that.
    I am pleased today to iontroduce Larry Phillips, Jr., the 
Governor of Ohkay Owingeh Pueblo who is here to provide 
testimony today. Governor Phillips was born and raised in Ohkay 
Owingeh and has served his pueblo in a variety of roles over 
the last three decades. He has led the pueblo's effort in 
advancing their water settlement since 2012 when he became the 
director of Ohkay Owingeh's natural resource division. He has 
made this settlement a top priority since his term as governor 
began in 2022, and I look forward to continuing our partnership 
to get this water settlement over the finish line.
    I also want to say hello to Thora Padilla from Mescalero 
Apache, who is going to be joining you virtually today on the 
Forestry Bill. She knows her stuff, and she is all too familiar 
with recent wildfires like the Salt Fire.
    The Ohkay Owingeh Rio Chama Water Rights Settlement Act 
would settle the water rights of Ohkay Owingeh in the Rio Chama 
stream system and provide the resources necessary to restore 
the bosque or riparian forest on the pueblo's land.
    This legislation would implement the settlement agreement 
that has been carefully negotiated between Ohkay Owingeh, the 
State of New Mexico, neighboring water users and the United 
States. I want to thank all of the parties for their tireless 
work in reaching a settlement for this basin.
    For more than a century, the United States has failed to 
protect the water rights of Ohkay Owingeh and other tribes. As 
a result, the pueblo suffered from a lack of water for 
families, for farms, for businesses, and for their bosque. It 
is hard to bring jobs and economic development to any community 
if you can't have reliable, guaranteed water.
    Pueblo members' traditional ways of life have suffered as 
the bosque has dried and native plants, fish, and wildlife have 
declined. The failuare of the United Statse to ensure that 
Ohkay Owingeh could use the water that they have always owned 
has reverberated through generations. It has a direct impact on 
the wellbeing of pueblo members today and it is time we make 
this right.
    This legislation would fully settle the Ohkay Owingeh's 
claim to the Rio Chama Basin. It would provide resources for 
the pueblo to restore the Rio Chama Bosque, a critical 
ecosystem that not only protects the Rio Chama but also 
provides traditional food and medicinal resources.
    The settlement will provide critically needed funding for 
water infrastructure to develop and distribute new water to 
pueblo homes and businesses. It will make it possible for Ohkay 
Owingeh to finally use the water that they have owned for more 
than a century
    In recent decades Congress, working through this very 
Committee, has made real progress on making tribes whole for 
the water that has always been theirs. We have an opportunity 
to take yet another step forward on that by approving this 
settlement.
    Thank you to the Committee and all your members for your 
consideration today and I would yield back the remainder of my 
time, Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much, Senator Heinrich.
    Senator Lujan, would you like to introduce another New 
Mexico witness?

               STATEMENT OF HON. BEN RAY LUJAN, 
                  U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW MEXICO

    Senator Lujan. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, Vice 
Chair Murkowski as well, for holding this important legislative 
hearing today.
    Before I introduce President Padilla, I also want to 
recognize an incredible leader from New Mexico, Governor Larry 
Phillips, to you, to your team for being here today. As you 
share with us, Governor, on behalf of all of the people from 
Ohkay Owingeh and from the communities as well, our elders and 
ancestors, it is an honor to have you before us today. It is 
good to see you, sir.
    Today, Mr. Chairman, I have the honor of introducing 
President Thora Padilla of the Mescalero Apache as a witness 
for today's hearing. She has served as president since January 
12th, 2024. Now, President Padilla previously worked for the 
tribe as director for the Division of Resource Management and 
Protection, a program she helped establish and develop. She 
also previously worked at the Bureau of Indian Affairs 
Mescalero Agency as a timber sale forester for eight years.
    President Padilla graduated from New Mexico State 
University in 1985 with a Bachelor of Science in agriculture 
and a major in horticulture and minors in botany and fine art.
    In her short time as president, President Padilla has 
already demonstrated her leadership and dedication to the 
Mescalero Apache and the State of New Mexico. Last month, fires 
devastated areas of southeastern New Mexico, only to be 
followed by flood. These wildfires upended the lives of far too 
many New Mexicans, destroying thousands of homes and businesses 
and disrupting livelihoods.
    During these turbulent times in our communities, President 
Padilla was a leader in the Mescalero Apache, Riudoso, and 
Roswell communities. I am proud to work with her back home, and 
I am proud to have her here in Washington to make things better 
for our tribal communiteis, for our State and for our Country. 
I look forward to her testimony.
    I yield back.
    The Chairman. Vice Chair Murkowski, would you like to 
introduce your Alaska witness?
    Senator Murkowski. I would be honored to do so. It is a 
pleasure to be able to welcome back to the Committee my friend, 
Mr. Ben Mallott. Ben is the newly announced president-elect for 
the Alaska Federation of Natives, AFN. This Committee knows the 
good workings of AFN over the years, the oldest and largest 
statewide Native membership organization in our State.
    Ben has dedicated his life, really dedicated his life to 
the interests of Alaska, and to Alaska Natives. He is very 
familiar with these issues that are in front of us. He has 
worked in this building before, and I have had the oproutnity 
to work side by side with him before he returned back to the 
State.
    It is always good to see you, and I am truly honored today 
that you are here to provide input to the Committee, your 
expertise, but really delighted that you are going to be 
assuming this very significant role at AFN.
    Welcome back.
    The Chairman. Well, it is time for your testimony. I want 
to remind the witnesses that your full written testimony will 
be made part of the official hearing record. Please keep your 
statements to no more than five minutes, so that we have time 
for questions.
    Ms. Goodluck, please proceed.

   STATEMENT OF TRACY CANARD GOODLUCK, SENIOR ADVISOR TO THE 
           ASSISTANT SECRETARY--INDIAN AFFAIRS, U.S. 
                   DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

    Ms. Goodluck. Thank you. Shekoli, good afternoon, Chairman 
Schatz, Vice Chairman Murkowski, and members of the Committee. 
My name is Tracy Canard Goodluck. I am a member of the Oneida 
Nation of Wisconsin, and I am also Mvskoke Creek of 
Thlopthlocco Tribal Town.
    I serve as Senior Advisor to the Assistant Secretary for 
Indian Affairs at the Department of the Interior. Thank you for 
the opportunity to present the department's views on S. 4505 
and S. 4370. These bills highlight the United States' trust 
obligation to protect the continued existence of Indian tribes. 
This means ensuring that each tribe has a protected homeland 
where its citizens can maintain their tribal existence and way 
of life.
    The Department is also committed to improving the 
stewardship of our Nation's Federal forest lands and water by 
strengthening the role of tribal communities in Federal land 
management, honoring tribal sovereignty and supporting the 
priorities of tribal nations.
    With respect to tribal forestry, Congress declared in the 
National Indian Forest Resource Management Act that the United 
States has a trust responsibility toward Indian forest lands. 
The Tribal Forest Protection Act allows for tribes to manage 
Fedreal forest and range lands, to mitigate risks to tribal 
forest land resources. The TFPA and proposed amendments here 
are also in line with the joint Secretaries' order on co-
management.
    The Department supports S. 4370 as it aligns with important 
Administration priorities. S. 4370 would amend the TFPA to 
include ANCSA lands in the definition of tribal forests and 
range lands.
    S. 4370 would also remove the requirements that TFPA 
activities occur on land bordering or adjacent to tribal lands, 
and extend application of TFPA to activities occurring on 
Indian forests or range land. These changes would provide 
parity to Alaska Natives and allow for cross-jurisdictional 
work to protect the health of both Federal and tribal lands.
    We would like to work with the sponsor and Committee to 
clarify the role of the BIA with the proposed expansion of TFPA 
projects on tribal lands.
    The Department is also pleased to support S. 4505. S. 4505 
would approve and provide authorizations to carry out the 
settlement of all water rights claims of the Ohkay Owingeh in 
the Rio Chama River Basin. Since time immemorial, Ohkay Owingeh 
has made use of the water in the Rio Chama Basin.
    However, Rio Chama water supply available to Ohkay Owingeh 
has been reduced over time by diversions by neighboring non-
Indian water users. A portion of Ohkay Owingeh's lands like 
within the bosque, or forested habitat, along the Rio Chama and 
Rio Grande, which is of great historical and cultural 
significance to Ohkay Owingeh people.
    The bosque areas within Ohkay Owingeh's lands were altered 
as a result of the flood control and irrigation projects 
constructed by the United States in the mid-1900s. Recent 
effects of climate change are exacerbating these effects and 
surface water supplies are dwindling. Ohkay Owingeh seeks 
funding as part of the proposed settlement to remedy the 
damages to its lands within these bosque areas.
    They also plan to develop Ohkay Owingeh's water resources 
for various uses, including domestic and municipal purposes for 
current and future populations. S. 4505 is designed to meet 
Ohkay Owingeh's needs for water by providing a trust fund that 
will allow Ohkay Owingeh to make decisions regarding how, when, 
and where to develop those projects. And S. 4505 would also 
allow Ohkay Owingeh to restore and protect its culturally 
important bosque lands.
    This approach is consistent with tribal sovereignty and 
self-determination. It is also consistent with our trust 
responsibilities and will help to ensure that Ohkay Owingeh can 
maintain its way of life.
    Thank you for the opportunity to provide the department's 
views on these bills, and I look forward to answering any 
questions you may have.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Goodluck follows:]

  Prepared Statement of Tracy Canard Goodluck, Senior Advisor to the 
  Assistant Secretary--Indian Affairs, U.S. Department of the Interior
    Chairman Schatz, Vice Chairman Murkowski, and Members of the 
Committee, thank you for the opportunity to present testimony on S. 
4370, Tribal Forest Protection Act Amendments Act, and S. 4505, the 
Ohkay Owingeh Rio Chama Water Rights Settlement Act of 2024.
S. 4370, Tribal Forest Protection Act Amendments Act
    The Tribal Forest Protection Act (TFPA) allows federally recognized 
Tribes to propose forest or rangeland projects to be conducted on lands 
managed by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and U.S. Department of 
Agriculture (USDA) Forest Service to reduce threats to adjacent Tribal 
lands, trust resources, and values. S. 4370 would amend the TFPA to 
provide for participation of Alaska Native Corporations (ANC), remove 
the requirement that projects to achieve land management goals occur on 
lands bordering or adjacent to Tribal lands, and extend application of 
TFPA to projects occurring on Indian forest land or rangeland.
    On November 15, 2021, Secretary of the Interior Haaland and 
Secretary of Agriculture Vilsack issued Secretary's Order 3403, Joint 
Secretarial Order on Fulfilling the Trust Responsibility to Indian 
Tribes in the Stewardship of Federal Lands and Waters (S.O. 3403, 
Order). At the Tribal Nations Summit on November 22, 2022, Secretary of 
Commerce Raimondo joined S.O. 3403.
    S.O. 3403 affirms the trust relationship between the United States 
and Tribes and acknowledges that the United States would benefit from 
the land management expertise and practices Tribal Nations have 
developed over centuries. The Order is also a commitment ``to ensure 
that Tribal governments play an integral role in decisionmaking related 
to the management of [F]ederal lands and waters through consultation, 
capacity building, and other means consistent with applicable 
authority.''
    The Department of the Interior (Department) recognizes that forest 
and ecosystem health does not stop at the border of Tribal lands. The 
Department is committed to improving the stewardship of our Nation's 
Federal forest lands by strengthening the role of Tribal communities in 
Federal land management, honoring Tribal sovereignty, and supporting 
the priorities of Tribal Nations. S. 4370 aligns with these important 
Administration priorities, and the Department supports the bill.
    The Department defers to the USDA regarding impacts to lands 
managed by the USDA Forest Service.
Background
    The TFPA authorizes the Department to enter into a contract or 
agreement with Tribes to carry out projects to protect Indian forest 
land or rangeland, including proposals to restore Federal land that 
borders on or is adjacent to Indian forest land or rangeland. The 
statute defines ``Indian forest land or rangeland'' as ``land that . . 
. is held in trust by, or with a restriction against alienation by, the 
United States for an Indian tribe or a member of an Indian tribe,'' and 
is ``forest land . . . ; or . . . has a cover of grasses, brush, or any 
similar vegetation; or . . . formerly had a forest cover or vegetative 
cover that is capable of restoration.'' Covered projects must meet 
certain criteria, including that the BLM-managed lands involved must be 
adjacent to the Tribe's trust or restricted fee lands; those lands must 
be under the jurisdiction of the Tribe; pose a fire, disease, or other 
threat to those trust lands or be in need of land restoration 
activities; and present or involve a feature or circumstance unique to 
that Tribe (including treaty rights or biological, archaeological, 
historical, or cultural circumstances). The TFPA requires that the 
Department respond to such projects within 120 days of receiving a 
proposal. If the Department denies a Tribe's request to enter into an 
agreement, the TFPA requires the agency to provide the Tribe with an 
explanation for its decision, and to propose consultation with the 
Tribe. Under the TFPA, Tribes and the Department have engaged in 
mutually beneficial work to improve forest and grassland conditions and 
protect Tribal lands and communities from risks.
    Projects proposed by a Tribe under the TFPA may be carried out 
through an Indian Self- Determination and Education Assistance Act 
(ISDEAA) funding agreement. Like the ISDEAA, the TFPA may extend to 
ANCs as well as federally recognized Tribes-although the reference to 
trust or restricted lands, and the requirement that the lands be under 
the jurisdiction of the Tribe, means that ANCs are practically excluded 
from participation under the statute.
Analysis
    S. 4370 would expand the definition of ``Indian forest land or 
rangeland'' to include land in the state of Alaska that is held by an 
ANC under the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act (43 U.S.C. 1601 et. 
seq.) or has ``a special geographic, historical, or cultural 
significance to the Indian tribe.'' The bill also removes the 
requirement that projects occur on Federal lands managed by the BLM or 
the USDA Forest Service that are adjacent to Tribal lands. Rather, S. 
4370 requires Federal lands present or involve a special geographic, 
historic, or cultural significance to the Tribe. Expanding the 
definition of ``Indian forest land or rangeland'' provides clarity for 
the use of TFPA by ANCs. Further, removing the requirement that 
projects occur on Federal lands bordering or adjacent to Tribal lands 
removes ambiguity pertaining to proximity. The BLM supports these 
amendments to reduce the threats to Tribal forest lands and rangeland, 
trust resources, and values.
    S. 4370 also expands the lands on which Tribes may carry out land 
management activities to include Indian forest land or rangeland; 
requires the Department to submit to Congress a report describing the 
Tribal requests received and agreements or contracts that have been 
entered into; and authorizes the appropriation of $15 million per year 
from 2025 through 2030 to carry out the Act. The TFPA has been 
successfully used to address management of lands administered by the 
BLM and USDA Forest Service that are a priority to Tribes due to their 
associated risks to Tribal forest land resources. The Department notes 
that without more specificity in the proposed bill's definition, there 
is a risk that expanding the TFPA to include Tribal lands could 
potentially result in duplicate efforts and the comingling of trustee 
obligations by the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA), USDA Forest Service, 
and the BLM, as the BIA administers programs including forest 
management and wildfire fuels reduction on lands held in trust for 
Tribes. However, in any format, this proposal would further Tribal 
ability to protect and restore forest lands across boundaries as 
threats to and the overall health of these lands do not stop at the 
boundaries of Tribal and Federal lands.
    S. 4370 could allow for a TFPA project to occur in part or in whole 
on trust lands managed under the authority of the Bureau of Indian 
Affairs (BIA). We would welcome the opportunity to work with the 
Sponsor and the Committee on revisions to clearly define the role of 
the BIA for such projects. Finally, the Department would welcome the 
opportunity to work with the Sponsor on revisions that clarify agency 
financial responsibility for cross-jurisdictional projects.
    The Department would welcome the opportunity to work with the 
Sponsor and the Committee to ensure that the expansion of the TFPA to 
apply to Tribal lands results in complementary, rather than 
duplicative, efforts.
S. 4505, A bill to approve the settlement of water rights claims of 
        Ohkay Owingeh in the Rio Chama Stream System, to restore the 
        Bosque on Pueblo Land in the State of New Mexico, and for other 
        purposes
I. Introduction
    At the core of the United States' trust and treaty obligations is 
our responsibility to ensure that Indian Tribes have the right to 
continue to exist in their homelands. Everyone should understand that 
water is essential to meet this obligation. Without access to water in 
their homelands, Tribes cannot remain in their homelands, and we cannot 
fulfill our most solemn obligation to American Indian and Alaska Native 
people.
    The Biden Administration recognizes that water is a sacred and 
valuable resource for Tribal Nations and that long-standing water 
crises continue to undermine public health and economic development in 
Indian Country. This Administration strongly supports the resolution of 
Indian water rights claims through negotiated settlements. Indian water 
settlements help to ensure that Tribal Nations have safe, reliable 
water supplies; improve environmental and health concerns on 
reservations; enable economic growth; promote Tribal sovereignty and 
self-sufficiency; and help advance the United States' trust 
relationship with Tribes. At the same time, water rights settlements 
have the potential to end decades of controversy and contention among 
Tribal Nations and neighboring communities and promote cooperation in 
the management of water resources.
    Indian water rights settlements play a pivotal role in this 
Administration's commitment to putting equity at the center of 
everything we do to improve the lives of everyday people-including 
Tribal Nations. We have a clear charge from President Biden and 
Secretary Haaland to improve water access and water quality on Tribal 
lands. Access to water is fundamental to human existence, economic 
development, and the future of communities-especially Tribal 
communities.
    To that end, the Biden Administration's policy on negotiated Indian 
water settlements continues to be based on the following principles: 
the United States will participate in settlements consistent with its 
legal and moral trust responsibilities to Tribal Nations; Tribes should 
receive equivalent benefits for rights, which they, and the United 
States as trustee, may release as part of the settlement; Tribes should 
realize value from confirmed water rights resulting from a settlement; 
and settlements should contain appropriate cost-sharing proportionate 
to the benefits received by all parties benefiting from the settlement. 
In addition, settlements should provide finality and certainty to all 
parties involved.
    Congressional enactment of these settlements should be considered 
within the context of all Tribal priorities and the availability of all 
resources. That is why the Administration encourages Congress to 
consider mandatory funding for this and other pending Indian water 
rights settlements, which was also requested in the 2025 President's 
Budget, included in the enacted Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, and 
already proposed in the bill we are discussing today.
    S. 4505 would approve and provide authorizations to carry out the 
settlement of all water rights claims of the Ohkay Owingeh in the Rio 
Chama basin in New Mexico.
II. Background
A. Historical Context
    Like other Pueblos in New Mexico, Ohkay Owingeh were agricultural 
people living in established villages when the Spanish explorers first 
came to New Mexico. Before Ohkay Owingeh's lands became part of the 
United States, they fell under the jurisdiction first of Spain, and 
later of Mexico, both of which recognized and protected the rights of 
the Pueblos to use water. When the United States asserted its 
sovereignty over Pueblo lands and what is now the State of New Mexico, 
it did so under the terms of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, which 
protected rights recognized by prior sovereigns, including Ohkay 
Owingeh's rights.
B. Ohkay Owingeh and the Rio Chama
    The Rio Chama, located in north-central New Mexico and to the 
northwest of Albuquerque, is a major tributary of the Rio Grande. The 
river originates in Colorado, just above the New Mexico border, and 
runs about 130 miles to its confluence with the Rio Grande. Ohkay 
Owingeh, located 28 miles north of Santa Fe, has approximately 13,244 
acres in the Rio Chama, Rio Grande, and Rio Santa Cruz basins. Ohkay 
Owingeh has approximately 2,880 enrolled members, of which about 2,205 
reside on Ohkay Owingeh lands.
    Ohkay Owingeh is located in an arid region of New Mexico, and 
drought is a common occurrence that has impacted, and continues to 
impact, Ohkay Owingeh lands. Since time immemorial, Ohkay Owingeh has 
made use of the water in the Rio Chama basin. However, the supply of 
water in the Rio Chama available to Ohkay Owingeh has been reduced over 
time by diversions by neighboring non-Indian water users. Consequently, 
Ohkay Owingeh is facing water shortages that impact its ability to 
provide sustainable water for its current and future water needs. 
Additionally, a portion of Ohkay Owingeh's lands lie within the 
``bosque,'' or forested habitat, along the Rio Chama and Rio Grande, 
which is of great historical and cultural significance to Ohkay 
Owingeh. The bosque areas within Ohkay Owingeh's lands were altered as 
a result of flood control and irrigation projects constructed by the 
United States on both the Rio Chama and Rio Grande in the mid-1900s. 
Recent effects of global warming and climate change are exacerbating 
these effects and surface water supplies are dwindling. Ohkay Owingeh 
seeks funding as part of the proposed settlement to remedy the damage 
to its lands that lie within these bosque areas and to also develop 
Ohkay Owingeh's water resources for various uses, including domestic 
and municipal purposes for current and future population.
    In the late 1940s, a general stream adjudication of the Rio Chama 
was initiated in New Mexico state court and was eventually removed to 
Federal District Court in 1969. Negotiations regarding potential 
settlement of Ohkay Owingeh's water rights claims have been ongoing 
since 2015, when the United States established a negotiation team.
III. Proposed Ohkay Owingeh Settlement Legislation
    S. 4505 would resolve all of Ohkay Owingeh's water rights claims in 
the Rio Chama basin in New Mexico; ratify and confirm the water rights 
settlement agreement signed in 2023 by Ohkay Owingeh, the State of New 
Mexico, and non-Indian water users; authorize the Secretary of the 
Interior to sign the settlement agreement; and provide funding to 
implement the settlement.
    S. 4505 would ratify and confirm Ohkay Owingeh's water rights to 
approximately 1,756 acrefeet per (AFY) from surface water and 
groundwater sources. These amounts include 771 AFY of future 
groundwater use for economic development and an important right to 250 
AFY of water to provide for bosque health and restoration on Ohkay 
Owingeh lands, as well as water to continue irrigated farming in the 
Rio Chama basin.
    S. 4505 would also protect non-Indian water users, as Ohkay Owingeh 
would not make priority calls for its senior rights against other 
settlement parties, owners of domestic wells and livestock rights, and 
any non-signatory water users who cooperate in shortage sharing. In 
addition, Ohkay Owingeh would promulgate a water code, which would 
govern permitting of uses of its water; provide processes for protests 
by parties affected by Ohkay Owingeh permitting decisions; and ensure 
that water use under an Ohkay Owingeh permit would not impair existing 
surface and groundwater rights.
    Finally, S. 4505 would establish a trust fund totaling $745 
million, to be indexed, that Ohkay Owingeh could use to develop water 
infrastructure as it determines necessary and on its own timeframe. 
Monies in the fund could be used for:

        1) Planning, permitting, designing, engineering, constructing, 
        reconstructing, replacing, rehabilitating, operating, or 
        repairing water production, treatment, or delivery 
        infrastructure, including for domestic and municipal supply or 
        wastewater infrastructure;

        2) Planning, permitting, designing, engineering, constructing, 
        reconstructing, replacing, rehabilitating, operating, or 
        repairing water production, treatment, or delivery 
        infrastructure, acquisition of water, or on-farm improvements 
        for irrigation, livestock, and support of agriculture;

        3) Planning, permitting, designing, engineering, constructing, 
        reconstructing, replacing, rehabilitating, operating, 
        monitoring, or other measures for watershed and endangered 
        species habitat protection, bosque restoration or improvement 
        (including any required cost shares for and allowable 
        contributions to a Federal project or program), land and water 
        rights acquisition, water-related Ohkay Owingeh community 
        welfare and economic development, and costs relating to 
        implementation of the settlement agreement;

        4) The management and administration of water rights; and

        5) Ensuring environmental compliance for projects developed 
        with settlement funds. The State of New Mexico would contribute 
        $131 million to provide for benefits to non-Indian water users, 
        including $500,000 for a fund to mitigate impairment to non-
        Indian domestic and livestock well users resulting from new or 
        changed water uses by Ohkay Owingeh.

IV. Department of the Interior Position on S. 4505
    The Department is pleased to support S. 4505. This bill is the 
result of multiple decades of litigation and nearly a decade of good-
faith negotiations to reach consensus on key issues. S. 4505 is 
designed to meet Ohkay Owingeh's current and long-term needs for water 
by providing a trust fund to be used by Ohkay Owingeh according to its 
needs and its own decisions. Rather than committing Ohkay Owingeh or 
the United States to construct specific water infrastructure projects, 
the bill would allow Ohkay Owingeh to make decisions regarding how, 
when, and where to develop water infrastructure. S. 4505 would also 
allow Ohkay Owingeh to restore and protect its culturally important 
bosque lands. This approach to settlement is consistent with Tribal 
sovereignty and self-determination, and with our trust 
responsibilities, and will help to ensure that Ohkay Owingeh can 
maintain its way of life.

    The Chairman. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Crockett, please proceed.

 STATEMENT OF JOHN CROCKETT, ASSOCIATE DEPUTY CHIEF FOR STATE, 
              PRIVATE, AND TRIBAL FORESTRY, U.S. 
                   DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE

    Mr. Crockett. Good afternoon, Chair Schatz, Vice Chair 
Murkowski, and members of the Committee. Thank you for the 
opportunity to share the Forest Service's perspective on S. 
4370, the Tribal Forest Protection Act Amendmnets of 2024.
    My name is John Crockett, and I have been a career Forest 
Service employee for more than 26 years, and I currently serve 
as the Deputy Chief for State, Private, and Tribal Forestry. In 
this role, I oversee the agency's work to reach across 
boundaries of the Natoin's forests by providing financial and 
technical assistance to States, tribes, communities, and 
private landowners.
    The Forest Service works to strengthen the nation-to-nation 
relationship with tribes, fulfill our trust responsibility, 
honor treaty rights and enhance tribal co-stewardship of our 
Natoin's forests and grasslands that is fundamental to our 
mission. Recent accomplishments demonstrate our growth in 
tribal collaboration.
    Last February, we released a tribal action plan detailing 
actions that the Forest Service would take to meet our general 
trust responsibilities, honor treaty rights, and support tribal 
self-determination. One of our first actions was to add the 
word ``tribal'' to the name of our deputy area that I lead. It 
is now State, Private, and Tribal Forestry, to recognize the 
ongoing commitment of our work with tribes.
    In Fiscal Year 2023, we executed more than 120 co-
stewardship agreements with tribes, investing more than $68 
million. With the funding from the Bipartisan Infrastructure 
Law, the Inflation Reduction Act and our regular appropriation, 
our efforts have increased ongoing projects with tribes.
    Since Fiscal Year 2023, we have provided more than $130 
million to benefit tribes through programs like our Urban and 
Community Forestry Program, Wood Innovations, Community 
Wildfire Defense Grant, and our Landscape Scale Restoration 
Program.
    The Tribal Forest Protection Act of 2004 provides the 
Forest Service with the authority to enter into agreements or 
contracts with tribes to carry out projects on the national 
forest system that protecting bordering or adjacent tribal 
lands. This authority has been key in enabling our 
collaboration with tribes.
    The bill under discussion today, S. 4370, shares the goals 
similar to those laid out in Joint Secretarial Order 3403, 
Fulfilling the Trust Responsibility to Indian Tribes for the 
Stewardship of the Federal Lands and Water. S. 4370 would amend 
the Tribal Forest Protection Act to expand the definition of 
Indian forests and range lands to include lands held by Alaska 
Native Corporations, enabling four ANCs with lands proximate to 
the Tongass and Chugach National Forests to conduct work 
through TFPA.
    The Forest Service Supports the intent of this addition, 
which would amplify the agency's ongoing collaboration with 
tribes, such as our agreement bewten the Tongass National 
forest and the Tlingit and Haida Tribes that formalize our co-
stewaardship agreement with the Mendenhall Glacier National 
Recreation Area.
    Second, S. 4370 would strike the requirement that Indian 
lands border or be adjacent to Forest Service or Bureau of Land 
Management lands, instead requiring lands that have a special 
geographical, historical or cultural significance tribes. We 
agree that the removal of the bordering adjacency requirement 
is necessary to expand tribal participation and would like to 
work with the Committee and the bill's sponsors to discuss 
criteria for making this happen.
    Third, S. 4370 would expand the program eligibility to 
allow for work on Indain Forest range lands. The Forest Servcie 
would like to work with the Committee to discuss the legal and 
administrative impacts of changing TFPA scope in this way, 
including how much changes may benefit from clarifying the role 
of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, Forest Service, and the Bureau 
of Land Management regarding the work on tribal lands other 
than those that are the Alaska Native Corporation lands.
    In closing, we support the Committee's goal to expand TFPA 
and broaden the Forest Servcie's authorities to work with 
tribes. We look forward to continuing to work with the 
Committee on adaptations to TFPA as well as other opportunities 
to advance co-stewardship and foster stronger tribal relations.
    Chair Schatz, Vice Chair Murkowski and members of the 
Committee, this concludes my statement. I look forward to 
answering any questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Crockett follows:]

Prepared Statement of John Crockett, Associate Deputy Chief for State, 
      Private, and Tribal Forestry, U.S. Department of Agriculture
    Chairman Schatz, Vice Chairman Murkowski, and Members of the 
Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today 
to discuss the views of the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA).
    Federally recognized Indian Tribes are sovereign nations with long-
standing government-to- government relationships with the Federal 
Government. We acknowledge that many of the Federal lands and waters 
managed by the USDA and the Department of the Interior are the 
traditional territories of American Indians and Alaska Natives. These 
lands are home to sacred sites and burial sites, wildlife, and other 
sources of indigenous foods and medicines. Many of these lands are in 
areas where Tribes have reserved rights to hunt, fish, gather, and 
practice their traditional ceremonies pursuant to statutes and ratified 
treaties and agreements with the Federal Government.
    Forest Service policy honors the Federal trust relationship with 
Tribes, promotes protection of these ancestral lands and waters, and 
enhances co-stewardship opportunities with Tribes based on a suite of 
treaties, Federal laws and regulations, court decisions, executive 
orders and memorandums, interagency agreements, and agency-specific 
direction. These include but are not limited to the Tribal Forest 
Protection Act, Good Neighbor Authority, Stewardship Contracting 
Authority, Wyden Amendment, Service First, Executive Order 14096 on 
Revitalizing Our Nation's Commitment to Environmental Justice for All, 
and the Presidential Memorandum on Tribal Consultation and 
Strengthening Nation-to-Nation Relationships.
    The Forest Service's recent expansion of work is consistent with 
our general trust responsibility and honors Tribal sovereignty. It has 
taken many forms:

   Tribal co-stewardship agreements developed in response to 
        Joint Secretarial Order 3403 promote an approach to managing 
        national forests and grasslands that seeks to protect the 
        treaty, religious, subsistence and cultural interests of 
        federally recognized Indian Tribes. In Fiscal Year (FY) 2023, 
        the Forest Service and Tribes executed more than 120 
        agreements, representing a total investment of approximately 
        $68 million, more than triple the $19.8 million invested in FY 
        2022. These agreements implement vegetation management projects 
        to protect Tribal land and communities and reduce hazardous 
        fuels in critical and cultural landscapes while strengthening 
        our government-to-government relationships with Tribal nations.

   The 2018 Farm Bill also expanded the Good Neighbor Authority 
        (GNA) to Tribes. GNA allows the Forest Service to enter into 
        cooperative agreements and contracts with Indian Tribes, 
        States, and counties to perform forest, rangeland, and 
        watershed restoration services on the National Forest System. 
        Since FY 2018, Tribes have entered 30 GNA agreements, totaling 
        $7.3 million, to accomplish a variety of restoration work, 
        including addressing wildfires, pest control, climate change 
        vulnerability assessments, and cultural resource protection.

   In FY 2021, the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act 
        (IIJA) made additional funds available for Indian Tribes and 
        states to implement forest management and wildfire mitigation 
        projects on Federal lands pursuant to the GNA or the Tribal 
        Forest Protection Act (TFPA). The IIJA provided the Forest 
        Service with $5.5 billion to reduce wildfire risk and create 
        healthy and resilient ecosystems across Tribal, Federal, State, 
        and private lands. This included the first-ever Tribal program 
        appropriations for the Forest Service, increased eligibility 
        for Tribes, and opportunity for priority allocations for 
        Tribes.

    Several statutes and implementing regulations authorize the Forest 
Service to enter into agreements and contracts with and/or provide 
grants to Indian Tribes to protect Tribal land, communities, and 
resources. The Tribal Forest Protection Act of 2004 (TFPA) provides 
authority for the Forest Service to enter into agreements or contracts 
to carry out projects on the National Forest System that protect 
bordering or adjacent Indian forest land and rangeland from threats 
such as fire, insects, and disease while being informed by Tribal 
knowledge. Tribes may submit requests to the Secretary of Agriculture 
to enter into agreements or contracts. The 2018 Farm Bill provided 
additional opportunity, with a new Tribal forestry self-determination 
demonstration authority, for increased Tribal participation in the co-
stewardship of the National Forest System.
    TFPA has been a key authority available to the Forest Service to 
collaborate with Tribes to protect Tribal forest lands, rangelands, and 
communities from threats that originate from the National Forest System 
and to restore National Forest System lands that encompass treaty 
rights, traditional use, and other areas of Tribal significance. 
Notwithstanding the import of the TFPA in bringing Indigenous Knowledge 
and Tribal voices to Federal management of the National Forest System, 
some have observed that there are aspects of the authority that limit 
its application.

    Some have argued that TFPA's structure has limited the program's 
utilization and ability to meet Congress' intent of protecting and 
restoring Tribal lands. S. 4370, the Tribal Forest Protection Act 
Amendments Act of 2024, would amend existing law to:

    1. Expand the definition of ``Indian forest land or rangeland'' to 
include lands held by Alaska Native Corporations. Under the Alaska 
Native Claims Settlement Act (ANCSA), Congress did not place Native 
land in Alaska into trust or restricted status. Instead, land was 
conveyed to Alaska Native Corporations (ANCs) to manage for their 
shareholders. TFPA's current definition of ``Indian forest land and 
rangeland'' prevents nearly 44 million acres of ANCSA land and 
resources from being protected from threats from Federal lands under 
the jurisdiction of the Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management. 
In addition, the TFPA requires that the land be ``under the 
jurisdiction'' of a Tribe, which further prevents ANSCA lands from 
qualifying.

    There are four ANCs that hold lands pursuant to the Alaska Native 
Claims Settlement Act (43 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.) that border or are 
adjacent to the Chugach and Tongass National Forests and/or may be 
proximate to potential threats from those National Forests. Expansion 
of TFPA to those lands under ANC oversight would create opportunity for 
Sealaska and Chugach Alaska Corporations, and potentially Ahtna, Inc. 
and Cook Inlet Region, Inc. The Forest Service does not have a presence 
outside of southeast Alaska.

    2. Strike the requirement that Indian lands ``border on or be 
adjacent to Forest Service or Bureau of Land Management lands.'' The 
bill instead requires the Forest Service or Bureau of Land Management 
land to have a special geographic, historical, or cultural significance 
to an Indian Tribe. Tribes have sacred sites, cultural landscapes, and 
other resources on federal lands that they want to protect or restore, 
but the lands on which those resources exist are not always bordering 
on or adjacent to Indian lands.
    Some have observed that a limitation of TFPA is the requirement 
that the Indian forest land or rangeland border or be adjacent to lands 
in the National Forest System. This reduces participation for Tribes 
without an existing, or no, land base that meets these criteria.
    The TFPA currently includes the following Tribally-related factors 
in evaluating the proposal of the Indian Tribe:

   the status of the Indian Tribe as an Indian Tribe;

   the trust status of the Indian forest land or rangeland of 
        the Indian Tribe;

   the cultural, traditional, and historical affiliation of the 
        Indian Tribe with the land subject to the proposal;

   the treaty rights or other reserved rights of the Indian 
        Tribe relating to the land subject to the proposal;

   the Indigenous Knowledge and skills of members of the Indian 
        Tribe;

   the features of the landscape subject to the proposal, 
        including watersheds and vegetation types;

   the working relationships between the Indian Tribe and 
        Federal agencies in coordinating activities affecting the land 
        subject to the proposal; and the access by members of the 
        Indian tribe to the land subject to the proposal.

    Amending the bordering or adjacency criteria to include Indian 
forest land or rangeland and Tribal communities that are reasonably 
proximate to a threat from the National Forest System may be a more 
effective framework to expand eligibility and to implement, as it can 
include factors such as the type and extent of the risk to Tribal 
lands, resources, and communities. For example, wildland fire travels 
over many acres; disease can flow downstream over many miles; insects 
can pervade over great distances. Therefore, the scope of reasonable 
proximity to the threat will expand the range of eligible Indian forest 
land or rangelands so that more Tribes will be able to submit TFPA 
proposals for work on National Forest System land.
    Amending the bordering or adjacency requirement to instead allow 
for proximity, amending the definition of Indian forest land and 
rangeland to include ANCSA lands, and clarifying when Tribes must 
exercise jurisdiction over the lands, may achieve the desired goals of 
establishing Tribal relationships to the landscapes of interest and 
allow ANCs to participate. If the Committee would like to discuss 
additional/different criteria to establish ``special geographic, 
historical, and cultural relationships'' or other approaches to define 
the Tribal relationship to the lands within the National Forest System, 
the Forest Service would welcome that conversation.

    3. Expand program eligibility to allow for work on Indian forest 
land or rangelands. The current program only applies to work conducted 
on Federal lands under the jurisdiction of the Forest Service or Bureau 
of Land Management. The TFPA came into being after the fire season of 
2003 when 18 reservations were affected by wildfire from federal lands. 
To help reduce the threat of future tragedies, the Tribal Forest 
Protection Act of 2004 established a process to allow Tribes to perform 
hazardous fuels reduction operations and other forest health projects 
on U.S. Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management lands bordering or 
adjacent to their own.
    The Bureau of Indian Affairs has authority and responsibilities as 
trustee to manage Tribal forest lands pursuant to the National Indian 
Forest Resources Management Act (25 U.S.C. Chapter 33). Given this, the 
Forest Service would like to work with the Committee to discuss the 
legal and administrative impacts of changing the scope of the TFPA, 
including how such changes may benefit by clarifying the role for each 
of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, Forest Service, and Bureau of Land 
Management as agencies with the different missions, obligations, and 
equities regarding work on the same Tribal landscapes.

    4. Add/update reporting on the program. Although the TFPA is a 
process authority and not a program, the Forest Service takes no issue 
with instituting a reporting regime to monitor and assess the 
performance outcomes of work performed under the TFPA.

    5. Add a five-year authorization of appropriations of $15 million 
per year. The Forest Service received its first-ever TFPA 
appropriations in the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, of up to 
$8 million per year for TFPA (Division J) and $32 million per year 
(40804(b)(2)) for both States and Tribes to implement TFPA and Good 
Neighbor Authority. In FY 2024, more than $185 million was requested by 
Forest Service field units to execute these authorities with Tribes on 
the National Forest System.

    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Crockett.
    Governor Phillips, welcome.

 STATEMENT OF HON. LARRY M. PHILLIPS, JR., GOVERNOR, PUEBLO OF 
                         OHKAY OWINGEH

    Mr. Phillips. Good afternoon, Chairman Schatz, Vice Chair 
Murkowski, and honorable members of the Committee. I am Larry 
Phillips, Jr., Governor of Ohkay Owingeh. With me today is 
Councilman Anthony Moquino to show the support of the entire 
council for this settlement.
    I would like also to acknowledge the incredible support of 
our two Senators, Senator Lujan and Senator Heinrich. I would 
not be here today to discuss our settlement without their hard 
work and efforts on behalf of the Pueblo.
    Thank you for inviting us to this hearing. I have submitted 
written testimony for the record on behalf of Ohkay Owingeh.
    I ask for Congress to authorize S. 4505. My statements 
today will highlight several points of that testimony. I would 
like to talk about our bosque, and the water and the importance 
to Ohkay Owingeh.
    Two things are the bosque and the waters that protect and 
preserve our bosque, and our lands are the very essence of what 
it is to be Ohkay Owingeh. In our Tewa language, or [phrase in 
Native tongue], which means a river of prosperous lands, is a 
living forest among flood plains of our river. In our 
ceremonies, we color ourselves and immerse ourselves with the 
lands and the waters of the bosque to celebrate and give thanks 
for our emergence from Mother Earth. Our people have been 
deprived of this ceremony for 75 years because of actions of 
the United States.
    The bosque was taken from us by two separate actions of the 
United States. In 1955, the Bureau of Reclamation and Army 
Corps of Engineers channelized the Rio Grande in an effort to 
move water away from our section of the river to benefit junior 
water users farther downstream. Authorization in 1956 of the 
construction of Abiquiu Dam changed the flow of the Rio Chama. 
Both of these actions have resulted in a devastating effect to 
our bosque and our waters necessary for a proper functioning 
river.
    We entered into a settlement negotiations to preserve and 
restore our water resources in the bosque. This is the first 
tribal water settlement that I am aware of that settles a claim 
by an Indian tribe that the United States confiscated tribal 
lands and water in a river channelization project, as I have 
mentioned. The United States bulldozed those rivers, they 
largely destroyed our rivers and bosque. This needs to be 
fixed. This settlement gives us the tools for that.
    We seek Congressional approval and funding for a 
comprehensive water rights settlement, a settlement that will 
last for all time. This settlement encompasses more than Ohkay 
Owingeh's water rights. It is a regional agreement with 
regional benefits. Ohkay Owingeh, the State of New Mexico, City 
of Espanola and many small farmers in the Rio Chama Basin 
together crafted this agreement. The settlement improves water 
reliability to all water users in the Rio Chama Basin. In 
exchange for these benefits, we will give up time immemeorial 
priority to facilitate any equitable sharing of our waters 
during dry years. This settlement will increase supplies. We 
will work with our neighbors for additional water sources to 
store in available existing reservoirs.
    The settlement will provide us use of efficiency by 
authorizing and funding the delivery of infrastructure that 
will provide economic benefits in the form of new jobs. We seek 
$740 million in Federal funds to implement this agreement. New 
Mexico has committed to a local cost share of $131 million.
    Ohkay Owingeh will use the Federal funds for many purposes 
related to this settlement. These could include, for example, 
new grounwater wells, water treatment facilities, irrigation 
ditch improvements to conserve water, water delivery facilities 
for both farms and as a backup to serve the river and its 
adjacent vegetation.
    We understand that this settlement is fund-based and the 
Ohkay Owingeh will not be able to return for additional 
funding. If we underestimate the cost of this project we build, 
we accept that risk.
    This concludes my oral testimony. Thank you. I am ready for 
questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Phillips follows:]

Prepared Statement of Hon. Larry M. Phillips, Jr., Governor, Pueblo of 
                             Ohkay Owingeh
Introduction
    I am Larry Phillips, Jr., Governor of Ohkay Owingeh, a federally 
recognized Tribe in Northern New Mexico. I thank you for convening this 
hearing and inviting me to testify. The welfare of the people of Ohkay 
Owingeh is one of my primary responsibilities as Governor. I submit 
this testimony on their behalf. We respectfully ask that Congress enact 
S. 4505, the Ohkay Owingeh Rio Chama Water Rights Settlement Act of 
2024.
    At the outset, I wish to acknowledge and respect a Pueblo ancestor, 
Po'Pay, who has been given the great honor of being recognized by the 
State of New Mexico with a statue in the United States Capitol. Born at 
Ohkay Owingeh in 1630, Po'pay lived with a desire to protect the lives 
and health of his people, along with other Native people, and to 
preserve culture and traditions so that my children and their children 
know and understand not just their heritage, but who they are.
    In 1680, Po'pay led a coordinated revolt by all Pueblos against 
Spanish invaders. The invaders had enslaved us, taken our homes for 
themselves, and suppressed with violence and executions our efforts to 
practice our culture and honor our history. Po'pay was whipped for 
having engaged in traditional Pueblo practices; the statue in the 
Capitol shows the scars on his back. Together with his neighbors, 
Po'pay drove the Spanish out of New Mexico and restored Pueblo 
authority. For a period of 12 years, the Pueblos enjoyed again the 
ability to govern themselves consistent with their traditions.
    Po'pay gave us the opportunity to restore and maintain our 
traditions in the face of outside challenges and enabled my ancestors 
to address the return of the Spanish with a renewed strength. Po'pay 
taught us how to both respect ourselves and our own culture and accept 
the new reality of a different culture living in our lands. In many 
respects, the water settlement you are considering is an extension of 
Po'pay and his teachings, as we have accepted and embraced the needs of 
our neighbors as part of this settlement, both politically and 
culturally. This water settlement reflects our sacred promise to our 
future generations to protect our lands and waters for their benefit.
Background of the Water Rights Settlement and Damage to the Bosque
    This bill implements an agreement that settles a water rights 
lawsuit filed by New Mexico to establish rights to the waters of the 
Rio Chama Stream System. The State sought to quantify the Pueblo's 
water rights. After many years of litigation, we negotiated the 
quantifications that are established in the settlement agreement, which 
will provide adequate water for our needs now and into the future from 
the Rio Chama source on our lands. Because of the cultural importance 
we place on water, however, this settlement is much broader in scope, 
and more important than just those numbers, more important than simply 
assigning limits to our water uses.
    This same agreement also settles a second lawsuit, one that we 
filed in the U.S. Court of Federal Claims seeking to restore the damage 
to our cultural resources caused by the United States and the damage to 
our people from being deprived the right to fully exercise their 
religious beliefs and practices. By destroying the bosque on our lands, 
the United States violated the constitutional principle that property 
shall not be taken without due process and adequate compensation. Our 
bosque is at the center of our cultural and religious practices. It is 
a sacred place. By taking our bosque and preventing our tribal members 
from being able to fully exercise their religious practices, the United 
States violated its duty to protect the resources of the Pueblo.
    In the 1950s and 1960s, the Bureau of Reclamation and Army Corps of 
Engineers channelized that portion of the Rio Grande that flows through 
Ohkay Owingeh's homeland. With bulldozers and other heavy machinery, 
the U.S. agencies destroyed the ancient meandering ribbons of the Rio 
Grande and transformed the river into something very different than 
what the Creator gave us. The river became narrow and bounded on both 
sides by levees. The U.S. intended to speed the flow and increase the 
amount of water to be delivered through our lands to benefit the junior 
water users in southern New Mexico. The U.S. succeeded in achieving its 
goals. Not surprisingly, the side channels, wetlands, robust plant- and 
tree-life, and the animals of the bosque, all gradually began to 
disappear. The groundwater table dropped. Over the last 70 years, this 
bosque has withered and begun its path to complete destruction.
    To compound the problem, in the 1960s the Army Corps constructed a 
dam on the Rio Chama. The dam succeeded in its purposes of regulating 
Rio Chama flows and storing water for release to farmers south of us. 
The loss of flood flows in the Chama, which farmers had demanded, and 
the decrease of water in the river led to the same disaster as occurred 
on the Rio Grande: the slow death of the bosque.
    The intentional destruction of the bosque is consequential not just 
because the U.S. destroyed a large swath of two healthy and vibrant 
rivers. This bosque is fundamental to Ohkay Owingeh traditional and 
cultural practices. The Ohkay Owingeh national symbol contains images 
of materials from the bosque. Our ceremonies are built upon, and our 
regalia is made up of materials from the bosque. Our world revolves 
around the bosque. The harm to our people from the loss of our land, 
our plants and animals, and our ability to fully practice and exercise 
our religion is nearly immeasurable.
    Ohkay Owingeh people cannot sit by while our critical resources 
wither and die. We must hold the U.S. to its responsibility to address 
the damages it has caused. Although the full extent of the harm 
suffered by Ohkay Owingeh people is incalculable, this settlement will 
provide funding to allow us to mitigate those damages.
    The bosque restoration project is supported by the State of New 
Mexico, City of Espanola, and the many parciantes on the acequias (the 
small farmers) in the Rio Chama. They support the bosque restoration 
project because they understand its importance to Ohkay Owingeh. But 
they also support bosque restoration because they know that a healthy, 
restored, and fully functioning bosque has benefits for all of New 
Mexico, including improved water quality, groundwater recharge, habitat 
for birds, fish, and plants, including species listed on the Endangered 
Species Act. Bosque restoration and the benefits that brings to the 
entire region is just one more way through this settlement that we take 
care of our needs and at the same time, ensure benefits to our 
neighbors and our State.
    Separate and apart from our settlement, the Corps of Engineers, 
through the Espanola Project authorized in Water Resources Development 
Act of 2018, Public Law 115-270, 132 Stat. 3830, Section 1401(4), has 
undertaken a bosque restoration project that includes a small part of 
our lands. This initial authorization will restore a small portion of 
our bosque. The authorization contained in this bill, S. 4505, will 
provide the means to finish the job.
    This settlement is created by the people who live in that region. 
We will share our water resources. We will protect and conserve our 
water. We will respond together to the crises that will inevitably 
come. We will celebrate together our successes as small farmers. Ohkay 
Owingeh's neighbors, the signatories to this agreement, have agreed to 
work with the Pueblo to enable us to restore the health of the bosque, 
most precious of our cultural resources. This agreement is a product of 
all of us: our thinking, our work, our preparation for an increasingly 
uncertain future. Now we ask Congress to partner with these citizens of 
the United States and support us in managing our water resources 
fairly, for the benefit of all in the region.
Specific Provisions of S. 4505
    As authorized by S. 4505, the Pueblo agrees to limitations on its 
current and future water uses; we waive our rights to a senior priority 
to permit sharing our water resource with our neighbors during dry 
periods; the Pueblo retains its ability to acquire water rights and 
lands in the future from willing sellers. We are asking Congress to 
approve the agreement and to appropriate $745 million for Pueblo 
development of water infrastructure and restoration of the bosque. The 
Legislation reflects an agreement by the State of New Mexico for its 
cost share: $98.5 million for irrigation improvements, $32 million for 
the City of Espanola water infrastructure, and $500,000 for mitigation 
of well impairments. The legislation in Section 5 confirms and 
establishes as Ohkay Owingeh's federal water rights. The provisions of 
the agreement are summarized here:

   Irrigation--the Pueblo will have sufficient surface water to 
        irrigate our farmlands of 310.45 acres. The agreement 
        authorizes irrigation of an additional 1,562 acres formerly 
        owned and irrigated by the Pueblo; these lands and water rights 
        must be reacquired by the Pueblo from willing sellers.

   The Pueblo will have sufficient water for livestock.

   The Pueblo will have a right to the use of 981-acre feet per 
        year (afy) from groundwater wells for current and future 
        domestic, commercial, and municipal purposes; most of that 
        water use is subject to offsets (the Pueblo must replace the 
        water it depletes from the system) to protect downstream users 
        and to ensure state compliance with the Rio Grande Compact.

   The Pueblo will have the right to restore the Rio Chama 
        bosque by diverting water from the river during high-flow 
        events under specified water conditions. The Pueblo in addition 
        may apply 250 afy to the bosque at any time by diversions from 
        the Rio Chama, or the use of groundwater or irrigation return 
        flows. The Pueblo expects high flow events to allow significant 
        improvements to the bosque, and the yearly use of 250 af to be 
        sufficient to maintain the health of the bosque in between 
        flood events.

   As mentioned previously, the Pueblo will waive its senior 
        priority right to water and the parties will fairly allocate 
        among themselves water available during times of shortage. The 
        shortage sharing schedule will be in the form of an annual 
        agreement, binding on all parties, and enforceable by the New 
        Mexico State Engineer.

   The parties have agreed to pursue water storage in existing 
        reservoirs as a joint effort.

   Ohkay Owingeh and the City of Espanola have agreed to avoid 
        interference with each other's groundwater wells.

   The State and Pueblo will exercise their respective 
        sovereign authorities over management of water resources. The 
        Pueblo, pursuant to its laws, will administer water within the 
        Pueblo Grant. The State, pursuant to its laws, will administer 
        water outside the Grant. The administration of water rights 
        will be conducted by both governments in a public manner with 
        full timely disclosure to the public. The State has agreed to 
        provide a fund to mitigate impairment to domestic and livestock 
        wells that might arise from Pueblo water use.

   Proposed federal funding for the Pueblo may be used to 
        acquire water rights, plan for, and develop water-related 
        infrastructure, administration of water rights, and bosque 
        restoration.

    The second part of the agreement provides funding for restoration 
of the Rio Chama and Rio Grande bosque within the Pueblo Grant. The 
damage to the rivers' riparian areas caused by the Bureau of 
Reclamation and Army Corps of Engineers is significant, continuing, and 
increasingly devastating to our cultural practices. The U.S. was 
focused on getting water to farmers through the dam at Abiquiu and the 
channelization of the Rio Grande and acted with disregard to the vast 
damage to people of Ohkay Owingeh.
    Ohkay Owingeh fully understands that S. 4505 authorizes a fund-
based settlement, which means that we are prepared to bear the risk of 
underestimating the cost of constructing the water infrastructure and 
restoring the bosque.
    Ohkay Owingeh people were farmers and hunters a thousand years ago. 
We still are. We were people who learned from our ancestors, followed 
our traditional ways; we still do. We speak Tewa, our language. We hold 
our ceremonies. We also build industrial parks, establish businesses 
with operations throughout the country, build houses, run a government, 
educate our children in our schools, and provide our community with 
health care, public services, and jobs. Ours is a complex world. Our 
ancestors are part of our daily lives. Yet we live in the 21st century.
    On behalf of my people, our ancestors who were stewards of the 
natural resources of northern New Mexico, and our children and 
grandchildren, we urge this Committee to endorse our carefully crafted 
plan to restore and maintain our primary cultural resource, the bosque. 
River restoration is in the broad public interest. Restoration will 
return to the people of New Mexico an environmental paradise. And 
restoration will assure Ohkay Owingeh that its traditional practices 
will continue.
    Thank you.

    The Chairman. Thank you very much, Governor.
    Now we will welcome virtually President Padilla for her 
testimony.

 STATEMENT OF HON. THORA PADILLA, PRESIDENT, MESCALERO APACHE 
                             TRIBE

    Ms. Padilla. Good afternoon, Chairman Schatz, Vice Chair 
Murkowski, and members of the Committee. And a special hello to 
Senator Lujan and Senator Heinrich.
    My name is Thora Padilla, and I am honored to serve as 
President of the Mescalero Apache Tribe. Thank you for this 
opportunity to testify about S. 4370, proposed amendments to 
the the Tribal Forest Protection Act.
    For Mescalero Apache people, forestry is a part of our way 
of life. The forest protects our watershed and provides food 
and shelter to our people. We played a role in setting national 
tribal forestry policies for decades. Mescalero was among the 
first tribes to extend support for the Tribal Forest Protction 
Act of 2004, and one of the first to engage in a stewardship 
contract under the TFPA.
    Treatments conducted under the Six Springs Stewardship 
Contract, as well as fuel treatments conducted on tribal lands 
at Eagle Creek, were key to limiting damage to our reservation 
and the village of Riudoso from the Little Bear fire of 2012. 
The TFPA has proven itself for 20 years now, and it is time to 
expand the reach of projects and tribal participation in this 
program.
    For this reason, the Mescalero Apache Tribe extends our 
full support for S. 4370. The bill eliminates the requirement 
that Federal land must border or be adjacent to Indian land. 
Forest fires, disease and insect infestation do not respect 
boundaries. Removing this barrier will permit tribes to conduct 
landscape scale management projects throughout Federal lands 
where the tribe has historical or cultural connections to the 
land.
    The Lincoln National Forest and other nearby Fedreal lands 
are part of the Mescalero Apache Tribe's ancestral homelands. 
S. 4370 holds potential to give the Mescalero Apache a greater 
voice in the development of forest management strategies that 
will protect our reservation, our investments in the forest, 
and our nearby communities.
    S. 4370 also expands TFPA projects to include treatments on 
Indian lands which will help offset the significant and 
longstanding funding shorfalls for tribal forest management. As 
the latest FMAT report shows, tribal forestry programs receive 
one-third to oen-tenth of the Federal funding delivered to our 
State and Federal counterparts.
    Finally, the bill adds a funding provision to the TFPA 
which will further improve implementation and help the Act 
reach its true potential.
    In addition to the improvements proposed in S. 4370, we ask 
the Committee to expand on the 2018 Farm Bill's TFPA 638 
Forestry Program. Mescalero testified before this Committee in 
2018 in support of this program. However, last summer, when I 
reached out to work with the Lincoln National Forest on a 638 
forestry contract, I was told that the project did not meet the 
TFPA requirements and even if it did, there was no funding to 
support the proposed 638 contract.
    To address these barriers, we urge the Committee to support 
existing proposals included in both the House and Senate Farm 
Bills to remove the demonstration designation from this program 
and make it permanent. We also ask the Committee to address 
other needed improvements to the TFPA 638 Forestry program. We 
ask that you add a funding mechanism to the program that will 
also cover contract support costs.
    These additional improvements to the TFPA will enable 
tribes to consistently enter into contracts and compacts with 
the Forest Service and BLM. Once this takes place, tribes and 
tribal priorities will become part of the agency decision-
making process, and will have positive impacts on the exercise 
of tribal treaty rights, protection of Native sacred places and 
protection of tribal investments on Federal lands.
    In closing, I want to again thank you for this opportunity 
to testify today in support of S. 4370 and its proposed changes 
to the Tribal Forest Protection Act that will help the law 
reach its full potential. I am now prepared to answer any 
questions that the Committee may have.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Padilla follows:]

 Prepared Statement of Hon. Thora Padilla, President, Mescalero Apache 
                                 Tribe
    Good afternoon Chairman Schatz, Vice Chair Murkowski, and Members 
of the Committee. My name is Thora Padilla and I am honored to serve as 
President of the Mescalero Apache Tribe (``Mescalero'' or ``Tribe''). 
Thank you for this opportunity to testify about S.4370, the Tribal 
Forest Protection Act Amendments Act of 2024.
    The Tribal Forest Protection Act of 2004 (TFPA) has proven itself 
for two decades now. We fully support the proposed changes to the TFPA 
included in S. 4370. In addition, we urge the Committee to support 
proposals to make the TFPA 638 Forestry program permanent and to extend 
a funding mechanism to that program. We also support proposals to 
expand TFPA to authorize Tribal Governments to conduct prescribed burn 
and other projects. And finally, we urge the Committee to examine and 
support passage of proposals to bring parity to the Small Tracts Act.
Background: the Mescalero Apache Tribe
    The Mescalero, Lipan and Chiricahua Apache, make up the Mescalero 
Apache Tribe. Long before the first European settlers came to this 
land, our Apache ancestors roamed the Southwestern region, from Texas 
to central Arizona and from as far south as Mexico to the peaks of 
Colorado. We were protected by our four sacred mountains: White 
Mountain/Sierra Blanca, Guadalupe Mountains, Tres Hermanas/Three 
Sisters Mountains, and Oscura Peak. We traveled the rough Apacheria 
through mountains and deserts but always returned to our sacred White 
Mountain.
    As Europeans began to encroach on our lands, the Apaches entered 
into a treaty with the United States on July 1, 1852. The Treaty with 
the Apaches promised the Tribe a permanent homeland in our aboriginal 
territory. The Mescalero Apache Reservation (``Reservation''), located 
in the White and Sacramento Mountains of rural south-central New 
Mexico, was established through a succession of Executive Orders in the 
1870's and 1880's. The Reservation spans approximately 720 square miles 
(460,405 acres). Our Reservation is home to 5,500 tribal citizens and 
approximately 200 non-Indian residents.
    The original Reservation boundaries and our ancestral homelands 
encompass lands that are currently held in federal ownership, including 
the Lincoln National Forest (LNF) and Bureau of Land Management (BLM) 
lands surrounding the Fort Stanton State Monument. These federal lands 
were carved out of our ancestral homelands. Evidence of our connections 
to LNF is found throughout the Forest, from rock art to mescal pits to 
the Apache Trail, which was a prime route for water in the Sacramento 
Mountains. These Mountains are home to the Mountain Spirit Dancers--
holy beings that ensure our well-being. The Mescalero Apache people 
have maintained strong cultural ties to these lands. To this day, we 
continue to gather plants important to our traditions and conduct 
ceremonies on these federal lands. To strengthen our ties to these 
lands and to have input into their management, the Tribe has entered 
into Memoranda of Understanding (MOUs) with the U.S. military and LNF. 
In addition, the Tribe has invested significant resources in Ski 
Apache, a resort owned and operated by the Tribe pursuant to a special 
use permit. Ski Apache is located on LNF lands bordering our 
Reservation.
Mescalero Apache Forest Management
    We are the people of the Mountain Forests. The Mescalero Apache 
have managed our forests holistically for centuries. Sustainable forest 
management is part of our way of life. In addition to promoting the 
health of our forests, our forest management practices promote the 
growth of food and medicinal plants, healthy wildlife, and historically 
served to protect our lands from invaders.
    This tradition of forestry was put into formal practice when the 
Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) Mescalero Agency opened its Branch of 
Forestry in 1910. Mescalero's first major commercial timber sale was in 
1919. With the opening of the tribally owned Mescalero Forest Products' 
(MFP) sawmill in 1987, the Tribe entered a new era of forest 
management. Today, the Mescalero forest remains one of the best-
managed, healthiest forests in the Southwest.
    For more than a century, the BIA Mescalero Agency and the Tribe 
worked to develop a premier forestry program on the Reservation. During 
the 1990's and early 2000's, the BIA Branch of Forestry employed three 
professional foresters and two forestry technicians in the Timber Sale 
section. This small staff was responsible for preparing and offering 
for sale lumber at 16.8 million board feet annually and completing all 
sale planning, environmental compliance work, timber sale layout and 
administration. Due to the amount of timber harvested, the BIA 
identifies the Reservation as a Category 1-Major Forested Reservation. 
Additionally, the Fire Management and Fuels Management Programs are 
each rated as High Complexity. These ratings describe not only the 
intricacy of addressing fire concerns across a large landscape but also 
the need for coordinated efforts among programs and agencies.
    Operating on a shoestring budget, the Tribe's Division of Resource 
Management and Protection has been able to provide high quality 
forestry services on the Reservation, assisting the BIA in timber sales 
and performing fuels management projects. The strong working 
relationship with BIA Forestry and the implementation of contracts 
under the Indian Self-Determination and Education Assistance Act (P.L. 
93-638) helped the Tribe build a strong forest management system.
    Before the Tribal sawmill, Mescalero Forest Products (MFP), closed 
in 2012, the Tribe treated one full rotation of the commercial forest, 
totaling 183,876 out of a total Reservation land base of 460,405 acres. 
All 183,876 acres were considered for logging. Areas that were not 
treated contained arch sites, threatened and endangered species, or 
homesites.
    Despite the importance of this mission, the Mescalero BIA Branch of 
Forestry experienced a 43 percent reduction in staffing levels since 
2016. As a result, in FY 2022 the Tribal Council passed a Resolution to 
contract for and take over the BIA Branch of Forestry and Branch of 
Natural Resources activities through Public Law 93-638 Self-
Determination contracts. This has allowed us to focus on Tribal 
priorities and objectives to manage our forest. Through 638 contracts, 
the Tribe has taken on silvicultural evaluations and prescriptions; 
timber sale planning and harvest; forest development thinning and 
planting; woodland management; forest protection from insect, disease, 
and trespass; and fuels management. However, the Mescalero Apache Tribe 
views the federal government's most fundamental treaty and trust 
obligations to provide for public and fire safety on Indian lands as 
non-negotiable. For that reason, our community relies on the BIA's 
Mescalero Agency (the ``Agency'') to provide direct services for the 
critical public safety functions of law enforcement and firefighting 
services on our Reservation.
    When the Tribe first began commercially harvesting timber, many 
opposed the concept. This resistance to proactive forest management 
began to dissipate in 1996 when the Tribe experienced its first large 
fire in recent history, the Chino Well Fire. This fire began on a windy 
spring day in April. Within one day, the fire threatened 42 homes, 
forcing evacuations, and burning a seven-mile strip of forest of more 
than 8,000 acres. Due to the rapid-fire response of Tribal fire crews, 
no homes were damaged. Soon after the fire, homeowners wanted to learn 
how they could protect their homes from future wildfires.
    With the advent of the National Fire Plan in the late 1990's, the 
BIA Branch of Forestry worked with the Tribe to develop strategic 
ridgetop fuel breaks and implemented wildland urban interface 
treatments around residential and recreational areas across the 
Reservation. Through this program, the Tribe has treated an additional 
63,968 acres through hazardous fuels reduction projects. These projects 
were coordinated with harvest operations, recognizing that understory 
thinning alone would not reduce the potential for destructive crown 
fires. As a result of implementing wildfire mitigation measures to 
reduce fire danger, the Tribe earned Firewise Communities/USA 
recognition in 2003--the first tribe in New Mexico to earn such 
recognition.
    Hazardous fuel reduction projects are vital to our forest 
management practices. Forests are living organisms. With reductions in 
density, trees and ground cover are better able to thrive. Southwestern 
forests grow with very little precipitation. On the Reservation and in 
LNF, 26 inches of annual precipitation is considered a ``wet'' year. By 
reducing tree densities to ensure the crowns are not touching, we 
greatly enhance the available water, light and nutrients each 
individual tree receives. With open forest conditions, pine seedlings 
have a better environment to germinate, resulting in increased forest 
regeneration.
    In addition to our hazardous fuels management program, the Tribe 
used to operate the MFP sawmill. However, the decline in the lumber 
market, combined with process inefficiencies and a lack of by-product 
markets, resulted in the closure of MFP twice, once in December 2008 
and again in July 2012. The closure of the sawmill resulted in the loss 
of 55 jobs for mill workers and 150 supporting staff (including 
marking, harvesting, hauling, and administrative staff). The Tribe was 
also forced to close a second mill that it owned in Alamogordo, which 
employed 82 workers.
    The MFP sawmill was a vital first-line forest management tool that 
enabled the Tribe to treat the larger trees of the forest overstory 
through selective harvests that were followed up with hazardous fuels 
reduction projects in the smaller size classes. Closure of these 
sawmills has significantly limited our ability to manage our forest and 
assist in the management of LNF.
    In addition, congressional funding cuts, implemented over the past 
two decades, have further strained our forestry practices. Prior to 
these cuts, the Tribe was able to manage our forest better than the LNF 
on a fraction of the federal agency's budget. Failure to restore this 
modest funding threatens the future success of our program.
Need to Expand the Tribal Forest Protection Act
    Congress enacted the Tribal Forest Protection Act of 2004 in 
response to devastating wildfires that crossed onto tribal land from 
federal lands in the summer of 2003. TFPA has provided a tool for 
Tribes to propose work and enter into stewardship contracts and other 
agreements with the Forest Service or Bureau of Land Management (BLM) 
to reduce threats on federal lands adjacent to Indian lands. The Forest 
Service alone shares approximately 2,100 miles of contiguous boundaries 
with Indian tribes. The TFPA authorizes the Secretaries of Agriculture 
and Interior to give special consideration to tribally-proposed 
projects on federal land bordering Indian trust land.
    The Act was largely underutilized for years. From 2004-2008, only 
10 TFPA contracts and agreements were awarded. These contracts and 
agreements covered 23,230 acres and 51.5 miles of boundary. USFS-tribal 
TFPA stewardship contracts have been limited in scope, focusing on 
hazardous fuels reduction and invasive species treatment. This 
disappointingly slow implementation of the TFPA continues to thwart the 
Act's potential, leaving tribal forests more vulnerable to catastrophic 
wildfire, disease and infestation from adjacent federal public lands. 
TFPA partnerships should be aggressively expanded.
    A case in point of the positive but limited impact of the TFPA is 
the stewardship contract that the Mescalero Apache Tribe entered into 
with the LNF. Through the ``Sixteen Springs Stewardship Contract'' in 
2006 with LNF, the Tribe conducted fuels reduction, urban interface, 
and ecosystem restoration projects that covered more than 6,300 acres 
and 3.4 miles of roads along the shared boundary between our 
Reservation and LNF.
    These treatments greatly improved the health of adjacent LNF lands. 
Added benefits of the stewardship contract included strengthening 
connections with our ancestral homelands, the resulting improved 
relationship between Mescalero forest personnel and LNF staff and 
gaining a better understanding of the management constraints placed on 
the LNF.
    However, the stewardship contract ended far too early. Many 
thousands of additional acres of dense forest within LNF remain 
untreated and continue to threaten the lives and property of Tribal 
members and the public.
Lessons Learned from the Little Bear Fire
    Mescalero leadership had longstanding concerns about the dense 
forest conditions in LNF. We have seen the escalation of insect 
populations, including bark beetles and other defoliators on the 
Reservation, and have watched as large swaths of USFS lands die around 
us.
    Nature provided a preview of what will happen if the Mescalero 
forestry program is allowed to fail. The Little Bear Fire started 
modestly on Monday, June 4, 2012. The initial small fire was caused by 
lightning in the White Mountain wilderness in LNF. Over the first five 
days, LNF deployed relatively few assets to contain what it thought was 
a non-threatening forest fire. Firefighters worked only on day shifts, 
air tanker resources were not utilized, and helicopter water drops were 
minimal. On the fifth day, the fire jumped the fire line and high winds 
turned the fire into a devastating inferno. By that night, the fire had 
blazed through the Tribal ski area, Ski Apache Resort (``Ski Apache''), 
and crossed onto Tribal lands. Within two weeks, the Little Bear Fire 
burned 35,339 acres in LNF, 8,522 acres of private land, 112 acres of 
state land and 357 acres of the Reservation. The fire also destroyed 
more than 255 buildings and homes in the region and burned 44,500 acres 
of prime watershed. The overall estimated cost of the fire, including 
suppression and damages, exceeded $100 million. This number includes 
more than $1.5 million to tribal assets at Ski Apache. \1\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Since 1960, the Tribe has leased approximately 860 acres of LNF 
lands under two special use permits to establish, manage, and operate 
Ski Apache. Ski Apache is located on the northern border of the 
Reservation. The land is part of the Tribe's aboriginal homelands and 
is located within the Sierra Blanca Mountain Range, which is sacred to 
the Mescalero Apache people. Over the past 64 years, the Tribe has made 
significant improvements to the Resort. In 2012, the Tribe invested $15 
million to triple the ski lift capacity at Ski Apache. In addition, the 
Tribe invested $2.6 million for non-ski/year-round recreation at Ski 
Apache. Ski Apache employs 350 people during the ski season and 
contributes millions of dollars to the local economy. Under the current 
arrangement, the USFS administers these lands, and LNF has the legal 
responsibility to respond to emergencies, such as the June 2012 Little 
Bear Fire. However, it has been the Tribe that has acted as the primary 
first responder in emergency situations. If the Tribe had not taken the 
initiative, our assets at Ski Apache would have been lost in the Little 
Bear Fire.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Little Bear Fire crossed the Reservation line at a key 
topographic area. There are two major canyons, Upper Canyon and the 
Eagle Creek area, that start on the Reservation and then lead off the 
Reservation. Both areas are heavily populated off-Reservation. Because 
of the volume of trees that were burnt, there was a real danger that 
resulting flooding would have destroyed buildings, access roads, and 
existing ski runs. However, due to additional investments and hazardous 
fuels projects conducted by the Tribe, major flooding was avoided. In 
2008, the Tribe completed an important, cost-effective hazardous fuels 
reduction project on a portion of the Reservation called Eagle Creek. 
As the Little Bear Fire moved across the landscape, the previously 
treated Eagle Creek project area was used as a defensible space to turn 
the Little Bear Fire away from the steep, densely forested terrain of 
the North Fork of the Rio Ruidoso and prevented complete devastation of 
the Village of Ruidoso and its source waters.
    The Little Bear Fire is proof positive that hazardous fuels 
reduction projects and the TFPA work. The fire's impacts provided a 
clear contrast between the healthy Mescalero forest and dense LNF and a 
clear justification to increase funding for TFPA projects and for the 
Tribal Forestry Management program.
S. 4370, TFPA Amendments Act of 2024
    As noted above, the Mescalero Apache fully supports S. 4370, the 
Tribal Forest Protection Act Amendments Act of 2024. The bill expands 
the definition of Indian lands to include lands held by Alaska Native 
Corporations. Importantly, S. 4370 eliminates the requirement that 
federal land is ``bordering or adjacent to'' Indian land. Removing this 
barrier will permit Tribal Governments to conduct landscape-scale 
management projects throughout federal lands where the Tribe has 
historic or cultural connections to the land.
    The LNF and other nearby federal lands are part of our ancestral 
homelands. S. 4370 will enable our Tribe to offer meaningful input into 
the management of these lands that goes before and beyond NEPA. It 
holds potential to give the Mescalero Apache Tribe a greater voice in 
the development of forest management strategies on our former homelands 
that will serve to protect our Reservation and nearby communities.
    S. 4370 also expands TFPA projects to include treatments on Indian 
lands, which will help offset the significant and longstanding funding 
shortfalls for tribal forest management. And finally, the bill adds a 
funding provision to the TFPA, which will provide a steady funding 
stream for TFPA implementation will help the Act reach its true 
potential.
    In addition to the improvements to the TFPA proposed in S. 4370, we 
ask the Committee to expand on the 2018 Farm Bill's establishment of 
the 638 Forestry program. Mescalero testified before this Committee in 
support of the 638 Forestry program. However, last summer, when I 
reached out to work with the Lincoln on a 638 Forestry contract, I was 
told that the project didn't meet the TFPA requirements, and even if it 
did there was no funding to support the proposed 638 contract. The 
Committee should address these and other barriers to full 
implementation of the TFPA 638 Forestry program.
    First, we urge the Committee to support existing proposals to 
remove the ``demonstration'' designation from this program and make it 
permanent. To ensure implementation of the program, we ask that you add 
a funding mechanism to the 638 Forestry program that also covers 
contract support costs. We ask that you amend the program to limit an 
agency's ability to reject valid tribal requests to engage in 638 
forestry contracts or compacts. And finally, we ask that you extend 
Federal Tort Claims Act protection to the tribe and tribal employees 
engaged in TFPA 638 Forestry contracts.
    These additional improvements to the TFPA will enable Tribes to 
consistently enter into contracts and compacts with the Forest Service 
and BLM. Once this takes place, Tribes and Tribal priorities will 
become part of the agency decisionmaking process, making positive 
impacts on the exercise of tribal treaty rights, protection of Native 
sacred places, and protection of tribal investments on federal lands.
    Finally, federal land management laws, like the Small Tracts Act, 
16 U.S.C.   521c-521i, authorize USDA to transfer federal lands to 
state and local governments, but fail to permit similar administrative 
transfers to Tribal governments. To achieve parity and respect for the 
governmental status of Indian Tribes, we urge the Committee to examine 
and advance proposals to amend the Small Tracts Act to provide the 
Forest Service with legal authority to administratively transfer 
federally managed forest lands back to Tribal governments in situations 
where such lands are former reservations or encompass ancestral lands.
Conclusion
    The Tribal Forest Protection Act holds great potential to protect 
Indian lands, improve the health of federal lands, and limit the 
impacts of wildfires. S.4370, the Tribal Forest Protection Act 
Amendments Act, proposes significant improvements to the TFPA. We urge 
the Committee to advance this bill and consider advancing other needed 
improvements to the TFPA that will help reach the Act's full potential.

    The Chairman. Thank you very much.
    President Mallott, please proceed with your testimony.

    STATEMENT OF BENJAMIN MALLOTT, PRESIDENT-ELECT, ALASKA 
                     FEDERATION OF NATIVES

    Mr. Mallott. Thank you, and good afternoon, Chairman 
Schatz, Vice Chair Murkowski and members of the Committee.
    My name is Ben Mallott. I have the honor of serving as the 
Vice President of External Affairs and also as the President of 
AFN. AFN today is the largest statewide Native organization in 
Alaska. Our membership includes 177 Alaska Native tribes, 154 
village Native corporations and 9 of our 12 regional tribal 
consortiums.
    I am here to talk in support of Sennate Bill 4370, the 
Tribal Forest Protection Act. I want to thank Senator Murkowski 
for her leadership on this bill.
    The importance of forest management for Alaska Native 
communities cannot be overstated. Our forests play a critical 
role in the lives of our Native communities, provide a source 
of subsistence and cultural practices and provide economic 
opportunities in our communities that are challenged by their 
remoteness and high cost of living. Effective forest management 
is essential to preserve Native forest lands for future 
generations.
    The Tribal Forest Protection Act, or TFPA, is an important 
tool that allows Native communities to participate in the 
stewardship of Federal forest lands and also adjacent to Native 
lands. But it has faced several challenges that have limited 
its work in our communities. The original TFPA, while well-
intended, did not fully account for the ownership of our Alaska 
Native communities.
    As Senator Murkowski mentioned, ANCSA transferred more than 
44 million areas into Alaska Native corporations and their 
communities. The crucial language was left out of the original 
TFPA. This exclusion really limits Alaska Native communities 
and our landowners to fully engage in stewardship of our 
management, especially across management boundaries.
    As you all know, wildfires and other natural disturbances 
don't care about boundaries. That is why we need to remove the 
obstacles to allow us and our communities to work across these 
boundaries to preserve our forests. Unfortunately, the 
definition the TFPA limits this ability.
    As mentioned, the TFPA as enacted undermines our ability, 
even in the Nation's largest forest, the Tongass, to protect 
and manage the forest for wildfire threats, pests, and other 
forest issues; it has been a challenge. Over 2 million acres of 
forest land in Alaska has been affected by spruce beetle 
outbreak. The U.S. Forest Service recommends range management 
to help reduce this damage from forest fires.
    Currently, the TFPA does not allow ANCs to engage with the 
Forest Service on these issues, or with the BLM. AFN supports 
Senate Bill 4370 because of this growing risk of wildfires and 
other invasive pests in our forests.
    As I mentioned, the Tongass National Forest is type of 
rainforest. I grew up in Juneau. We are getting more dry 
weather and more unusual weather. The ability for ANCs and our 
tribes to manage our lands is critical especially going 
forward.
    Alaska Native Corporations, such as SeaAlaska Corporation, 
maintain silviculture programs. The crews are well equipped to 
assist in this process and also nearby Federal lands. As 
mentioned, this bill would enable our ANCs like SeaAlaska to 
hire more forest partnership crews in our communities to manage 
our own forests alongside our Federal partners.
    There is also a close working relationship with the Forest 
Service and BLM. As such, AFN supports S. 4370's forest 
definition of ANCs in forest range land and forest lands. The 
bill also allows for non-adjacent land use as well. As you 
know, ANCSA is kind of, we have patches of land throughout. As 
I mentioned, wildfires don't always start next to our lands. 
Our work with the Forest Service to protect our lands, even 
though they may be far away, is crucial for the management of 
our forests.
    I also want to mention, if we have time, Senate Bill 4370 
also aligns with Joint Secretarial Order 3403 on fulfilling the 
trust responsibilities on Indian tribes as outlined by USDA and 
DOI.
    In closing, S. 4370 is a much-needed update to the TFPA. It 
addresses unique challenges of Native communities to partner 
with the Federal Government. It provides tools and resources 
necessary for effective management to benefit our Native 
communities.
    On behalf of AFN, I urge this Committee to advance this 
legislation to protect our Native forests.
    Gunalcheesh, Haw'aa, Baasee. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Mallott follows:]

    Prepared Statement of Benjamin Mallott, President-Elect, Alaska 
                         Federation of Natives
    Good afternoon, Chair Schatz, Vice Chair Murkowski, and 
distinguished members of the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs. My 
name is Benjamin Mallott. I have the honor of being the President-Elect 
of the Alaska Federation of Natives (AFN). I am writing to express our 
strong support for S. 4370, the Tribal Forest Protection Act Amendments 
Act of 2024, introduced by Senator Lisa Murkowski.
    AFN was formed to achieve a fair and just settlement of Alaska 
Native aboriginal land claims, and today, AFN is the oldest and largest 
statewide Native membership organization in Alaska. Our membership 
includes 177 Alaska Native tribes, 154 village Native corporations and 
nine regional Native corporations established pursuant to the Alaska 
Native Claims Settlement Act (ANCSA), and nine regional nonprofit 
tribal consortia that contract and compact to administer federal 
programs under the Indian Self-Determination and Education Assistance 
Act. The mission of AFN, among other things, is to advance and enhance 
the political voice of Alaska Natives on issues of mutual concern.
    The importance of forest management for Alaska Native communities 
cannot be overstated. Our forests play a critical role in the lives of 
Alaska Native communities, providing a source of subsistence and 
cultural practices and providing economic opportunities in communities 
challenged by their remoteness and high cost of living. Effective 
forest management is essential to preserve these Native-owned 
forestlands for future generations.
    The Tribal Forest Protection Act (TFPA) is an important tool that 
allows Native communities to participate in the stewardship of federal 
forest lands adjacent to Native lands, but it has faced several 
challenges that have limited its effectiveness, particularly for Alaska 
Native communities.
    The original TFPA, while well-intentioned, did not fully account 
for the unique conditions and needs of Alaska Native communities. As 
you know, ANCSA transferred more than 44 million areas into Alaska 
Native ownership, with the land to be held by Alaska Native 
Corporations for their communities. The forestland owned by Alaska 
Native Corporations is in every respect ``Indian forestland,'' but 
Congress neglected to include these Alaska Native lands within the 
scope of the TFPA's definition of this term.
    In 2023, in testimony before the Senate Committee on Agriculture, 
Nutrition and Forestry, Angela Coleman, Associate Chief of the U.S. 
Forest Service, stated that ``[c]limate change, wildfire, and other 
natural disturbances do not respect land management boundaries; 
therefore, we need policies and management approaches . . . that remove 
barriers and allow for shared stewardship and cross-boundary 
management.'' Unfortunately, in Alaska, the lack of clear definitions 
that incorporate Alaska's model of self-determination and land 
ownership has hindered our Native communities' ability to engage in 
shared-stewardship activities to support ``shared stewardship and 
cross-boundary management'' of our forests.
    Our inability to work with the Federal Government to support shared 
stewardship of our forests does not stem from a lack of interest on the 
part of Alaska Native landowners or the U.S. Forest Service. In fact, 
the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Natural Resources Conservation 
Service acknowledges that, ``[a]s the largest private landowners in the 
state, Alaska Natives play a critical role in implementing USDA 
conservation programs on the ground. . . . This share success is built 
on a foundation of locally-led partnerships.''
    The TFPA as originally enacted undermines the ability of Alaska 
Native landowners to partner with the Federal Government--even in the 
Nation's largest National Forest, the Tongass--to protect and manage 
forestland from wildfire threats, pest infestations, and other forest 
health issues. I would call to your attention the fact that well over 2 
million acres of forestland in Alaska has been affected by a spruce 
beetle outbreak that was initially detected in 2016. While the U.S. 
Forest Service recommends a range of management measures to reduce 
beetle damage--such as removing windthrown trees or thinning or pruning 
trees--our Alaska Native landowners are powerless to work within the 
framework of the TFPA to address this outbreak.
    Forests in Alaska are increasingly at risk from wildfires. Even the 
Tongass National Forest, a temperate rainforest, is experiencing more 
dry weather. Alaska Native Corporations, such as Sealaska Corporation, 
maintain silviculture programs, and their crews are well-equipped to 
assist with fuel treatment projects on nearby federal lands. S. 4370 
could enable Alaska Native Corporations, like Sealaska, to hire more 
forest partnership crews, thereby increasing internal capacity. This 
would facilitate closer collaboration with USFS silviculturists to 
rethink cedar stand prescriptions for the growth of future cultural use 
wood. Moreover, having a larger pool of work would help promote the 
development of local crews, which has historically been a challenge.
    S. 4370 addresses these critical issues and represents a 
significant step toward ensuring that all Native communities, including 
those in Alaska, can fully utilize the TFPA to protect and manage their 
forest resources. Specifically, S. 4370 includes the following key 
provisions:

        1. S. 4370 expands the definition of ``Indian forest land or 
        rangeland'' to include lands held by Alaska Native 
        Corporations. This change is crucial, ensuring that ANCSA lands 
        will be better protected from threats originating from federal 
        lands.

        2. S. 4370 strikes the requirement that Indian lands must 
        border or be adjacent to U.S. Forest Service or Bureau of Land 
        Management lands, allowing for greater flexibility in 
        protecting and managing tribal resources.

        3. S. 4370 authorizes projects not just on federal lands, but 
        also on Indian forest land or rangeland. Among other benefits, 
        this change supports management efforts that both protect 
        tribal resources from threats that may originate on federal 
        lands while also protecting federal land from threats that may 
        originate on Native lands.

        4. Additionally, S. 4370 authorizes the funding necessary for 
        the implementation of these projects.

    I would also like to highlight that S. 4370 aligns with President 
Biden's Executive Order on Reforming Federal Funding and Support for 
Tribal Nations to Better Embrace Our Trust Responsibilities and Promote 
the Next Era of Tribal Self-Determination, issued on December 6, 2023. 
This Executive Order underscores the Federal Government's commitment to 
improving the funding mechanisms and support structures for Tribal 
Nations, recognizing the importance of self-determination and effective 
stewardship of natural resources.
    By providing clear funding for forest management, S. 4370 directly 
supports the goals of the Executive Order. This alignment demonstrates 
a comprehensive approach to fulfilling the federal trust responsibility 
and promoting Native self-determination.
    S. 4370 also aligns with the Joint Secretarial Order No. 3403 on 
Fulfilling the Trust Responsibility to Indian Tribes. Secretarial Order 
No. 3403, issued by the Secretaries of Agriculture and the Interior, 
emphasizes the federal commitment to co-stewardship of federal lands 
and waters with tribes. This Secretarial Order directs federal agencies 
to incorporate tribal expertise and Indigenous knowledge into federal 
land and resource management decisions, ensuring that tribal interests 
are safeguarded and their contributions are valued in stewardship 
activities.
    The co-stewardship principles outlined in the Secretarial Order are 
enhanced through S. 4370 by promoting collaborative management of 
federal lands and by ensuring that Native communities have a role in 
land and resource management.
    In conclusion, S. 4370 is a much-needed update to the TFPA and 
addresses unique challenges faced by Native communities through 
partnerships with the Federal Government. S. 4370 also provides the 
tools and resources necessary for effective forest management, which 
will benefit our tribal communities and ultimately benefit all 
Americans. On behalf of the Alaska Federation of Natives, I urge this 
Committee to support and advance this legislation. Thank you for the 
opportunity to testify today, and I am happy to answer any questions 
you may have.
    Quyana, Gunalcheesh, Haw'aa, Baasee, Taikuu, Thank you.

    The Chairman. Thank you very much for all of your 
testimony.
    I will start with Ms. Goodluck. How does DOI currently 
manage Indian forests or range lands under TFPA?
    Ms. Goodluck. As currently enacted, BLM does not have the 
authority to manage Indian forest lands or range lands. That 
would change with the amendments. The S. 4370 amendments would 
then open up tribal trust lands for BLM to be able to either 
manage co-jointly with their lands and tribal lands or 
sometimes there might be a situation where it would just be 
tribal lands.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Crockett, what impacts would expanding TFPA lands to 
include any Federal lands with special geographic, historical, 
or cultural significance to a tribe have on existing BLM 
practices?
    Mr. Crockett. Thank you for the question, Chair Schatz.
    The removal of the adjacency requirement would enable more 
tribes to have access to TFPA projects. We think that is a 
benefit for sure.
    Tribes that don't have access to lands would be able to 
have more tribal input. We support the intent to enable tribes 
to do more work with the new language around special cultural 
and geographic responsibilities.
    We would like to discuss the criteria on what it would take 
to get to success when it comes to the authority that the BLM 
or the BIA has for the jurisdiction over tribal authorities, 
and then clarify those roles.
    The Chairman. What do you mean by that?
    Mr. Crockett. So as it stands now, the BIA has jurisdiction 
authority over tribal trust lands. We want to work with BIA and 
not overstep our bounds over jurisdictional authorities.
    The Chairman. Is this something that you guys need to work 
out? Let's assume we enact this. Do we have to clarify this in 
statutory language, or is this something that you think agency 
to agency can be worked out?
    Mr. Crockett. Probably agency to agency on the special 
geographic, historical and cultural significance.
    The Chairman. But let's be in touch as this piece of 
legislation moves. Because if you have a framework, it is 
probably smart for us to at least clarify legislative intent, 
if not in the plain language of the text, then through our 
report or any other way to indicate what we have in mind. I 
would sure hate for us to pass this and then you are kind of 
stuck in a negotiation or a kind of wrangling situation.
    So the more of this we can clarify in statute, the better.
    Mr. Crockett. Yes.
    Let me add one piece. I think the important role, as we 
engage with tribes, consultation would be an important piece. 
Because what we don't want to have is have the Forest Service 
be the arbiter between tribes, multiple tribes that have a 
claim to the geographic authorities. So we would like to work 
that out through consultation with tribes.
    The Chairman. Yes, you don't want to purchase that problem 
for your own agency. I understand.
    Vice Chair Murkowski?
    Senator Murkowski. Mr. Chairman, thank you for that.
    I want to do a follow-up here with Mr. Crockett. I think, 
as I listened to our witness from the Department of Interior, I 
hear pretty strong support for S. 4370. You clearly stated, Ms. 
Goodluck, that DOI supports the bill.
    But it is not very clear what the USDA Forest Service 
position is on it. Quite honestly, I am really disappointed. 
Being here today we have had so many years of discussion, I 
have, my staff, tribal ANC leaders across the State. We have 
talked about co-management of Federal forest lands.
    So I too want to make sure that we are not setting 
something up here where we have divergent views or opinions as 
to how this is all going to work.
    I want to ask you a couple of questions and point out what 
I think is first of all just plain old factual error in your 
testimony. You go on to say that Forest Service only has a 
presence in southeast Alaska, and therefore the TFPA issues are 
confined to the Tongass. But you and I both know that that is 
not accurate. We have two national forests in the State of 
Alaska. The Chugach is located in south central, spans 5.4 
million acres, neighbors the Chugach and the Cook Inlet 
Regional Corporation.
    So I am pretty certain you agree with that, and that was 
just an oversight. So it is not that the Forest Service only 
has a presence in southeast Alaska.
    Mr. Crockett. That is accurate. I am not sure how that got 
misconstrued, but yes.
    Senator Murkowski. Correcting the geography here.
    To more important things, and I want to talk about the 
change to the definition of Indian forest or range land again 
to include land held by an ANC. This is important because it 
does provide that clarity that the TFPA can be used by ANCs 
which we have all acknowledged controls over 44 million acres 
of land in Alaska.
    So I just want to make clear that these forest lands owned 
by ANCs are in every respect Indian forest lands and I want to 
know whether USDA agrees with that.
    Mr. Crockett. Yes, let me help clear up any uncertainty 
between either my written testimony or my oral statement. The 
Forest Service supports ANCs having access to the Tribal Forest 
Protection Act. Clear statement.
    We also support removing the adjacency requirement.
    Senator Murkowski. I am going to get to adjacency in just 
one second here. Let me ask one more question on ANCs. Does the 
USDA Forest Service support including ANCs and ANCSA lands 
specifically in the definition of ANCSA lands, so that the ANCs 
can use TFPA to do the forest management work both on Federal 
lands and on their own ANCSA lands?
    Mr. Crockett. Yes.
    Senator Murkowski. Great. So let me then ask about, because 
this is where, to the Chairman's point here, I want to make 
sure that we don't have any ambiguity. Our bill removes the 
requirement that projects occur on Federal lands bordering or 
adjacent to tribal lands. What your testimony suggests to me, 
and this is where I would like your clarification, it suggests 
to me that you want to replace adjacency or bordering with what 
you are calling reasonable proximity.
    So I want to ask if that is a correct assumption, because 
where I am trying to go with this is to remove ambiguity 
pertaining to proximity and recognize that you have resources 
and values on Federal land that the tribes want to manage.
    So I think Interior gets it on this. The question, Mr. 
Crockett, is whether or not USDA Forest Service supports 
removing the border and adjacency requirement for TFPA projects 
on Federal lands?
    Mr. Crockett. We support removing it and replacing it with 
special geographic, cultural, and historic significance. Then 
we would want to work with the Committee on the criteria to get 
to success with that.
    Senator Murkowski. Again, criteria to get to success, I 
don't want Forest Service to have different criteria than 
Interior. Because it sounds to me, and maybe I shouldn't assume 
this, but Ms. Canard Goodluck, are you guys okay with where the 
language is now in the bill? Does that give you the process or 
the necessary information that you need to operate? Or do you 
need additional criteria?
    Ms. Goodluck. I don't know if criteria is the right word. I 
think we are comfortable with where the amendment lies right 
now. I think what I said in my testimony about clarifying the 
BIA's role is that BIA currently manages trust lands. This 
would allow BLM and USDA.
    So I think that as Chairman Schatz mentioned, this is a 
conversation that can be interagency that we can have, and if 
we wanted to clarify intent, I think I am happy to have our 
team help arrange a conversation with your staff and other 
Committee members to clarify the intent. But I think we are 
comfortable with the language as it is now.
    Senator Murkowski. Well, what I did hear you say, Mr. 
Crockett, is that Forest Service does support removing the 
bordering or adjacency requirement for the TFPA projects on 
Federal lands. You said yes to that.
    Mr. Crockett. Yes. That is correct.
    Senator Murkowski. So I think that is important to get on 
the record.
    So Mr. Chairman, I am out of time. I am going to want to 
come back and ask Mr. Mallott a question after our colleagues 
have gone.
    The Chairman. Senator Lujan?
    Senator Lujan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know everyone 
listening today who is paying attention to this important 
hearing, there should be no question of the broad support that 
Vice Chair Murkowski has on this legislation. I very much 
appreciate her questioning to get these details correct, and 
the Chairman. We want to get there. So I certainly hope that 
everyone involved works to do that, and works to do that in a 
timely fashion, so that this legislation can be ready to be 
sent, passed to the House and get to the President for 
signature as well because of all the challenges that exist in 
our communities.
    So I want to thank the Vice Chair again for this.
    Governor Phillips, thank you again for being here. I very 
much appreciate in your testimony your acknowledgement of those 
who came before us. The decades that you have spent on this 
important issue, but the wisdom that we have all benefited from 
as well, from those who came before us. I have been very proud 
to work with you, with the council, with Senator Heinrich to 
support and advance this legislation. I want to thank my 
colleagues as well and the Chairman and the Vice Chair for 
noticing this today as well.
    Governor, would you share with us what a bosque is, and why 
restoration of the bosque is vital to the pueblo?
    Mr. Phillips. Thank you, Senator. Mr. Chairman, Vice Chair, 
and Committee members. Bosque is a term that is used for a 
riparian area. For Ohkay Owingeh, it is [phrase in Native 
tongue], which is the prosperous life, it is the connection 
with which the pueblos I united with the river, and its 
overbanking. There are a lot of activities, cultural activities 
that are connected.
    What is happening with our bosque is that the river's bed, 
as it was bulldozed and managed now by a dam, has driven a lot 
of those species and those deities that are in there that we 
celebrate and that we often carry into our ceremonies, that is 
what it is. It is a connection to our actual lives. This water 
is what we are made of, and our relationship to Mother Earth.
    That connectivity that often go to to celebrate and live 
individual lives and become people of our culture, that is what 
bosque means to us.
    Senator Lujan. I appreciate that very much, Governor. What 
is clear to me is that there are provisions included in this 
legislation that support the restoration of the Rio Chama and 
the bosque, which I appreciate and I applaud.
    Ms. Goodluck, thank you for coming today as well. In your 
testimony, you state that ``The bosque areas within Ohkay 
Owingeh's lands were altered as a result of flood control and 
irrigation projects constructed by the United States.:'' Ms. 
Goodluck, as you heard in the testimony from Governor Phillips 
today, the bosques on the Rio Chama and Rio Grande are 
essential to the pueblo's way of life.
    Would this legislation allow Ohkay Owingeh to, as part of 
its water rights, begin the restoration of the Rio Chama bosque 
in addition to expanding irrigation and drinking water access?
    Ms. Goodluck. Yes, it would.
    Senator Lujan. I appreciate that very much.
    After this legislation become law, which I hope will happen 
during this Congress, I look forward to working with you in the 
years to come to restore the health of the river and the bosque 
for the pueblo and all others in that community as well.
    Mr. Crockett, I want to thank you as well for highlighting 
the importance of tribal co-stewardship in your testimony, and 
some of the challenges that we are seeing today. Fires don't 
care what lines exist or what fences is there. We have seen the 
devastation from them. If you have traveled to these 
communities, you have seen it.
    The hardship that you see in families' eyes when you are 
talking to them, what you feel from them when they have lost 
everything, think about that one precious photo that you may 
have of a grandma or grandpa that you don't have it digitally 
maybe, it is the only thing you have, but it tells a story, 
something that was passed on to us, it is gone.
    Investments in the health and resilience of our forests not 
only reduces the risk of severe wildfires, it promotes the 
important bonds that many tribes have to the land and to 
cultural resources.
    President Padilla, why is it important to expand the TFPA 
authority to allow tribes to protect and restore their own 
forests and range lands, and not just those on Federal lands to 
protect against wildfires.
    Ms. Padilla. I think it is important to cross the boundary 
as we are doing it. Yes, it is important; we do want to do work 
on the Forest Service lands that are near our reservation. But 
is helpful to do these as landscape scale treatments, so work 
on our side that is complementary to our work as we are going 
across the border, I think that is really important. That is 
the whole point, is to create defensible space.
    Sometimes it crosses the boundaries, just as everybody has 
mentioned here. It is important to do treatments on both sides 
to really armor up those boundaries.
    Senator Lujan. I appreciate that.
    In addition to that, Madam President and Vice Chair 
Murkowski, I am very appreciate of the kinds of local, small 
businesses that might launch and may get to go and manage more. 
Certainty for a small business, for someone that maybe owns a 
chainsaw and an old pickup right now, maybe they are going to 
be able to buy two or three, hire a few people, modernize that 
truck and get a trailer, be able to clear a little bit more and 
share and expand. I just see the immense upside of this as 
well.
    I thank all the panelists for their time. I thank the Chair 
and Vice Chair again for today's hearing. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Vice Chair Murkowski.
    Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I thank the 
Senator for that comment.
    I want to direct this to you, Mr. Mallott. You are 
intimately familiar with the TFPA and forest management, you 
have been working on it for many, many years at AFN to ensure 
that the Native communities in Alaska and elsewhere can utilize 
the TFPA.
    I think what Senator Lujan has said is worth noting, the 
economic opportunities that can be made available, the social 
and economic benefits if ANCSA lands are made eligible under 
TFPA. Can you just speak a little bit more to that, what you 
might anticipate as well perhaps some of the environmental 
benefits to Federal forest lands in Alaska? You mentioned what 
we are seeing with invasive species, the spruce bark beetle, 
some of that, and how that is impacting maybe not so much in 
the Tongass but certainly up in the Chugach.
    So if you can just speak to not only the socioeconomic 
benefits, but the environmental benefits of being able to do 
what we are proposing under this legislation?
    Mr. Mallot. Gunalcheesh, Senator Murkowski, for that 
question. I also want to echo Senator Lujan's statement that 
this bill does have opportunities for economic and also for 
expansion of our own capacity within our communities.
    As I mentioned, SeaAlaska has a really large silviculture 
program. For them and for us as Tlingit people, cedar is a 
valuable tree for us. So if we could help co-manage or enter 
into agreements with the Forest Service to help manage our 
cedar groves and expand that resource for us for both our 
cultural and also economic, in our communities. Because you 
know, if you look a Junea, with all the new totem poles going 
up, that is a cultural benefit for us. And of course, we 
protect the cedar trees.
    I also want to recognize that as we look at our 
communities, the economic ability and jobs in our communities 
are tough. So if our ANCs or landowners could enter into an 
agreement with the Forest Service, even BLM, they could build 
on those, they don't have a lot of BLM lands up there. Our 
communities want to manage their lands, and if we could enter 
into agreements with our ANCs and our tribes to manage adjacent 
Federal lands, it would give them an opportunity for 
communities to help to engage in that.
    So you could have local participation from a community that 
is engaged with a fire boundary through adjacent BLM or Forest 
Service, Chugach lands. As you know, Senator Murkowski, you 
could drive through hundreds of acres of lands and see spruce 
bark beetle kill everywhere. That is something that I think we 
need to address.
    A couple of years ago, my mom's home town, Rampart, was 
very close to being evacuated for a forest fire. And that is 
very, very stressful to watch that, and hear family go through 
that. So the ability for our communities to engage in 
mitigation for that, hire local help for that, goes a long way.
    Senator Murkowski. Thank you.
    Mr. Chairman, I think you can hear, whether it is from 
Alaska and our lands up north to the lands as far south as New 
Mexico and Arizona, this is an issue that I think there is 
clearly common ground. We would like to work with our agencies 
to make sure that this partnership really is meaningful to 
achieve not only the environmental benefits that we are 
seeking, but also the social and economic benefits.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much.
    If there are no further questions for our witnesses, 
members may also submit follow-up questions for the record. The 
hearing record will be open for two weeks. I want to thank all 
our witnesses for their time and their testimony today.
    Senator Murkowski. Mr. Chairman, just before we close, I 
want to acknowledge my Committee intern, Nyche Andrew. She is 
going to be completing her internship with us. She is Inupiaq, 
she is Yup'ik, she is from Anchorage. She is attending college 
at Yale. She has been a great addition to us here on the 
Committee. We want to thank her for her work and for her 
participation.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much. We appreciate her work 
as well.
    I want to thank everybody for being here. This hearing is 
adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 3:09 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

                            A P P E N D I X

   Prepared Statement of the Climate and Wildfire Institute and The 
                          Stewardship Project
    The Climate and Wildfire Institute (CWI) and The Stewardship 
Project, a project supported by CWI, wish to express strong support for 
S. 4370, the Tribal Forest Protection Act Amendments Act of 2024. 
Through its amendment of the Tribal Forest Protection Act (TFPA), this 
legislation would promote greater Indigenous stewardship of Federal and 
Tribal forest and rangelands.
    The TFPA is a critical tool for fostering collaboration between 
Tribes and federal agencies to protect and enhance forested lands. By 
allowing Tribes to take the lead in proposing and implementing forest 
management projects, the TFPA not only helps safeguard Tribal lands but 
also contributes to the overall health and sustainability of the 
nation's forests. However, several aspects of the statute could be 
amended to improve how projects are implemented and to further promote 
Tribal sovereignty.
    The TFPA's adjacency requirement states that in order for a project 
to be eligible, the lands where the project will take place must 
border, or be adjacent to, federal lands managed by the U.S. Forest 
Service or the Bureau of Land Management (BLM). However, many Tribes 
have an interest in protecting and restoring sacred sites and cultural 
landscapes that are located on federal lands that do not border Tribal 
lands, in part because of the dispossession of Tribal people from their 
ancestral territories. By removing the adjacency requirement, this 
legislation would provide Tribes with more autonomy to protect their 
culturally significant resources.
    The bill would also expand program eligibility to allow work on 
Indigenous forest lands or rangelands. Currently, the TFPA only allows 
projects on federal lands. This limitation not only hinders the 
effectiveness of the Tribal projects, but indirectly disincentivizes 
the stewardship of Tribal lands. We strongly support the expansion of 
TFPA to include Indigenous forests and rangelands.
    Finally, this legislation expands the definition of ``Indian forest 
land or rangeland'' land to include lands held by Alaska Native 
Corporations (ANCs). Under the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act 
(ANCSA), Native land in Alaska was conveyed to Alaska Native 
Corporations to manage for their shareholders rather than being placed 
into trust or restricted status. The TFPA's current definition of 
``Indian forest land or rangeland'' prevents approximately 44 million 
acres of land in Alaska from protection. Like federally recognized 
tribes, ANCs have deep historical and cultural connections to their 
lands. The forests and natural resources on these lands are integral to 
the cultural, spiritual, and economic well-being of Alaska Native 
communities.
    The Tribal Forest Protection Act Amendments Act of 2024 makes 
commonsense reforms to the TFPA that improve Tribal sovereignty and 
enhance stewardship of federal and tribal lands. We thank Senator 
Murkowski for introducing this critical legislation and urge its 
passage.
                                 ______
                                 
 Prepared Statement of Tanya Trujillo, New Mexico Deputy State Engineer
    Mr. Chairman Bentz, Vice Chair Kiggans, Congressman Lujan, and 
members of the Committee, I am Tanya Trujillo, New Mexico Deputy State 
Engineer. My agency, the Office of the State Engineer, is responsible 
for the administration of water rights in New Mexico. The State 
Engineer has authority over the supervision, measurement, 
appropriation, and distribution of all surface and groundwater in New 
Mexico, including all interstate streams and rivers. I appreciate the 
opportunity to submit this testimony to you today and provide comments 
on behalf of the State of New Mexico in support of Senate Bill 4505, 
the Ohkay Owingeh Rio Chama Water Rights Settlement Act of 2024.
    S. 4505 will resolve Ohkay Owingeh's water rights claims in the Rio 
Chama Stream System by authorizing, ratifying, and confirming a 
comprehensive agreement among the State, Ohkay Owingeh, the City of 
Espanola, the Asociacion de Acequias Nortenas de Rio Arriba, the Rio de 
Chama Acequias Association, La Asociacion de las Acequias del Rio 
Vallecitos, Tusas, y Ojo Caliente, El Rito Ditch Association, 
representing 80 acequias and community ditches. This legislation offers 
a historic opportunity to authorize funding for Ohkay Owingeh to secure 
and develop water sufficient to support the Pueblo's needs, while also 
protecting scarce water supplies, existing water uses, and acequia 
culture in the heart of northern New Mexico.
    For centuries, Ohkay Owingeh irrigated along the banks and fertile 
lands along the river near the confluence of the Rio Chama and Rio 
Grande. Over the last century, the construction of large reservoirs, 
the channelization of the river, increased upstream uses, and climate 
change have greatly reduced the Rio Chama water supply.
    There are more than 80 acequias in the Rio Chama Stream System. The 
three oldest acequias in New Mexico divert from the Rio Chama just 
outside Ohkay Owingeh's grant boundary, but Ohkay Owingeh has time 
immemorial water rights, making it the most senior water user in the 
basin. The Acequias and the Pueblo are all suffering from diminished 
surface water supply and Ohkay Owingeh often struggles to receive 
enough water to farm their land at the bottom of the Stream System.
    Litigation over the Rio Chama water rights of Ohkay Owingeh has 
been ongoing for nearly thirty years. The federal court adjudication 
was filed in 1969 (State of New Mexico, ex rel. State Engineer v. 
Aragon, 69-cv-07941 (D.N.M.)). Recognizing the need for cooperation 
among the water users in the Stream System and the limited water 
resources available, the parties structured this settlement to protect 
existing uses and scarce resources.
    The Pueblo, the State, and the Acequias developed an administrative 
agreement to share and curtail water in times of shortage in order to 
increase wet water supply and extend the irrigation season. The Pueblo 
has agreed to give up its right to make a priority call on junior non-
Pueblo water users, providing security to all water rights holders in 
the region. Additionally, the legislation will provide Ohkay Owingeh 
with crucial funding for projects that will restore the culturally 
significant Rio Chama Bosque, which will support the health of the 
river and the ecosystem as a whole.
    As a fund based settlement, Ohkay Owingeh is seeking federal 
funding in the amount of $818.3 million for purposes related to 
restoring and maintaining the Rio Chama and Rio Grande bosques, 
developing water supply and wastewater infrastructure, acquiring water 
rights or water supplies, and managing and administering Pueblo Water 
Rights. Importantly, authorizing this fund-based settlement provides 
the Pueblo flexibility to determine the scope and design of future 
projects and infrastructure.
    The State of New Mexico has committed to seek State funding in the 
amount of $98.5 million to the Acequias for projects and infrastructure 
needs, and $32 million to the City of Espanola for the development of 
safe drinking water production wells.
    Mr. Chairman Schatz, Vice Chair Murkowski, and members of the 
Committee, the State of New Mexico asks you to support S. 4505. If 
approved, this legislation will create a mechanism for cooperation and 
coordination among Ohkay Owingeh and the State regarding water rights 
administration, thereby avoiding jurisdictional conflicts and allowing 
for comprehensive administration across the stream system. The funding 
authorized by the Settlement Act will contribute to Ohkay Owingeh's 
water security and provide significant economic benefits and employment 
opportunities to the Pueblo and surrounding communities. There will 
also be broader statewide economic benefits because the scope of these 
projects will create demand for additional labor, construction, and 
technical expertise from New Mexico contractors. The State of New 
Mexico enthusiastically supports this legislation and believes S. 4505 
is a key tool in addressing critical water needs of Ohkay Owingeh and 
protecting the way of life in northern Mexico for generations to come.
    I thank you for your consideration of this issue and stand ready to 
provide any support necessary to encourage the passage of this critical 
legislation.
                                 ______
                                 
    Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Brian Schatz to 
                             John Crockett
    Question. S. 4370 would amend the Tribal Forest Protection Act 
strike the ``adjacency'' requirement for National Forest System lands, 
replacing it with ``special geographic, historical, or cultural 
significance'' to an Indian tribe. While your written testimony 
acknowledges that the existing adjacency requirement limits 
participation for Tribes, it did not endorse the proposed framework and 
instead proposed a ``proximity'' requirement. Please elaborate on how 
proximity, and not ``special geographic, historical and cultural 
relationships,'' could achieve the bill's goals, and include specific 
examples of how this alternative framework could work in practice.
    Answer. The Tribal Forest Protection Act (TFPA) currently limits a 
Tribe's ability to perform risk reduction and restoration work on 
Bureau of land Management (BLM) and Forest Service land to those Indian 
forestlands or rangelands under the jurisdiction of the Tribe that 
border on or are adjacent to the public land. Although there are legal 
and operational reasons for this requirement, the Forest Service 
recognizes that it limits the number of eligible Indian forest lands 
and rangelands. The bill proposes to replace the ``borders on or 
adjacent to'' requirement with the criteria that the BLM or Forest 
Service land have a ``special geographic, historical, or cultural 
significance'' to an Indian Tribe. Although we understand and recognize 
that this language is contained in Title IV of the Indian Self-
Determination and Education Assistance Act, that authority differs in 
important ways from the Tribal Forest Protection Act. To clarify what 
was said orally, there are legal and implementation considerations with 
this language in the TFPA because the conjunction ``or'' means there is 
no temporal Tribal sovereign nexus requirement between the Indian 
forest land or rangeland and the public land. Additionally, there are 
likely competing Tribal interests and equities over the same landscape, 
particularly when there are no clear criteria for defining what point 
in history or what type of evidence suffices for meeting the cultural 
significance requirement. The bill also expands eligibility to include 
Alaska Native Corporations (ANCs) lands, which the Forest Service 
supports. There are likely similar competing interests and equities 
between ANCs, Native Village Corporations, and Alaska Native Villages 
over the same landscape under the proposed bill language. As an 
alternative, the Forest Service respectfully offered two alternatives 
for consideration: (1) replace the conjunction ``or'' with ``and''; or 
(2) change the language to ``reasonable proximity.'' Both alternatives 
graft a temporal Tribal sovereign nexus requirement to the BLM or 
Forest Service land, thus decreasing the legal vulnerability and 
limiting the competing Tribal interests over the same landscapes. The 
Forest Service welcomes the opportunity to work with the Committee on 
this or other language to help achieve the bill's goals.
                                 ______
                                 
    Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Brian Schatz to 
                         Tracy Canard Goodluck
    Question 1. Please describe how DOI interprets the proposed 
criteria of ``special geographic, historical, or cultural significance 
to the Indian tribe'' in Section 2(3)(B)(l) of S. 4370 to apply to 
Alaska Native Corporations.
    Answer. The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) could interpret the 
criteria based on Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act (ANCSA) regional 
boundaries when interpreting that section of the bill and on ANCSA 
Section 11 withdrawal areas for villages, combined with Tribal 
consultation.

    Question 2. We are aware that USDA has concerns about application 
of the above-cited criteria, specifically that it may lead to conflict 
among Tribes with competing claims over lands with such significance. 
At the hearing, you indicated that DOI has an administrative process 
that could potentially be used by USDA to address potential conflict. 
Please elaborate.
    Answer. If S. 4370 is enacted, the BLM would adapt the current 
administrative process as needed to address potential Tribal conflict 
over the same landscape. Currently, the BLM's administrative process 
for evaluating a Tribal Forest Protection Act (TFPA) project is 
officially initiated when an Indian Tribe requests in writing for the 
BLM to enter into an agreement or contract to carry out a project on 
BLM-managed lands to protect Indian forest land or rangeland. Under 
this process, the BLM evaluates whether TFPA project proposals meet the 
following criteria: (1) the Indian forest land or rangeland is held in 
trust or is in restricted status by the United States for the Tribe 
submitting the proposal; (2) the Indian forest land or rangeland 
borders on or is adjacent to the BLM-managed land; (3) the BLM-managed 
land poses a risk of fire, disease, or other threat to the Indian 
forest land, rangeland, or community, or is in need of land restoration 
activities; and (4) the BLM-managed lands that will be treated involve 
a feature or circumstance unique to that Indian Tribe (including treaty 
rights or biological, archaeological, historical, or cultural 
circumstances).
    The BLM must respond to the Indian Tribe's request within 120 days 
and indicate the steps that will be taken, including initiation of any 
necessary review under the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) or 
of the potential of entering into an agreement or contract to implement 
the project. If the BLM denies a request, the Bureau must issue a 
notice of denial to the Indian Tribe that: (1) identifies the specific 
facts that caused the denial and the reasons that support the denial; 
(2) identifies potential courses of action to address specific issues 
that led to the denial; and (3) includes an invitation for consultation 
to develop a strategy for protecting the Indian forest land or 
rangeland. If a project proposal does not meet the specific TFPA 
criteria, BLM policy directs the applicable field manager to work with 
the Tribal liaison to explore other opportunities to address fire, 
disease, or other threats.

    Question 3. Please describe how S. 4370 would impact the Bureau of 
Land Management's existing practices under the Tribal Forest Protection 
Act.
    Answer. S. 4370 creates the potential for the BLM to receive 
proposals from ANCSA corporations in Alaska, whose lands are not 
eligible under the current statute. The BLM has not denied any TFPA 
proposals due to failure to satisfy the bordering or adjacency 
requirement, but the removal of that requirement should broaden 
eligibility in evaluating whether proposals qualify under TFPA. S. 
4370's expansion of TFPA authority to include BLM awarding contracts or 
agreements for treatments on Indian forest and rangelands would be a 
new responsibility for the BLM that is currently conducted and managed 
by the BIA as trustee.

    Question 4. Please describe whether and how the Bureau of Indian 
Affairs' administration of Tribal forest lands under the National 
Indian Forest Resources Management Act would be impacted if S. 4370 
were enacted, and if so, how administration of the same Tribal 
landscapes by multiple federal agencies could be addressed in practice. 
For example, what responsibilities or practices would S. 4370 create 
for the BIA, and how would they align with the current 
responsibilities/practices of Forest Service and BLM?
    Answer. The TFPA has a 120-day deadline in which the BLM must 
respond to a Tribe's proposal to treat a forest or rangeland condition 
on BLM-managed land that poses a risk to the Tribe's forestland or 
rangeland or Tribal community. The TFPA provides for the Tribe to 
conduct the treatment on BLM-managed land through a contract or 
agreement. The TFPA does not provide for unique or additional forest 
management authority for Indian lands administered under the National 
Indian Forest Resources Management Act; however, for BLM funded 
projects on Tribal forest lands, the BIA would be consulted to ensure 
the project is aligned with the Tribe's forest management plan under 
the National Indian Forest Resources Management Act (NIFRMA). It is 
unclear whether S. 4370 would create any additional responsibilities or 
practices for the BIA because it manages Indian forest land as trustee 
under NIFRMA and because the TFPA activities will affect trust forest 
or rangelands assets.

    Question 5. How does the water sharing schedule described in S. 
4505 ensure equitable water security in times of shortage? In addition, 
please describe how enacting S. 4505 could protect against priority 
calls and help users in the basin.
    Answer. S. 4505 would ratify and confirm the Ohkay Owingeh Rio 
Chama Water Rights Settlement Agreement. Article 8.1 of the Agreement 
spells out the standards and procedures for sharing water during times 
of shortage between Ohkay Owingeh and 89 non-Indian acequias 
(irrigation ditches), and among the acequias themselves.
    Shortage sharing consists of four principal components: (1) Ohkay 
Owingeh agrees not to assert its acknowledged senior water rights in 
the Rio Chama Basin; (2) acequias agree not to assert priorities of use 
among themselves; (3) water rights will not be administered according 
to priorities of use, but rather according to an annual, enforceable 
negotiated water sharing schedule, so called Alternative 
Administration; and (4) the water sharing schedule will be based on 
equitable considerations, taking into account the fact that Ohkay 
Owingeh and three acequias on the Ohkay Owingeh Grant lands have senior 
water rights. Alternative Administration means there will be no 
priority calls by any party to the settlement agreement and there are 
enforcement mechanisms in place to ensure violations cannot occur with 
impunity. The goal is to ensure the available water supply in the Rio 
Chama Basin benefits the greatest number of users during the key months 
of irrigation and is based on practices that have been in place and 
have worked well for several years already.
    Water users who do not sign the settlement agreement may 
nonetheless benefit from shortage sharing by participating in the 
process as cooperating diverters. Also, acequias that sign the 
agreement but whose curtailment of diversion would be futile because 
their source of supply does not contribute beneficially to the flows of 
the Rio Chama at the time the shortage sharing schedule goes into 
effect, as determined by the Water Master, in consultation with Ohkay 
Owingeh, the Rio Chama Acequias Association, Acequias Nortenas, are 
excluded from the schedule and curtailment of water use.
    The shortage sharing provisions were negotiated under the guiding 
principle embraced by Ohkay Owingeh that working with neighbors to find 
equitable ways to share, manage and enhance water supplies now and for 
the future will benefit not only the Pueblo but and all water users in 
the Rio Chama Basin. As water supplies shrink, it is critically 
important to have good working relationships in place now to avoid 
disagreements in the future about how to allocate water.
                                 ______
                                 
    Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Brian Schatz to 
                            Benjamin Mallott
    Question 1. Please describe how including Alaska Native Corporation 
lands in the definition of ``Indian forest land or rangeland'' in S. 
4370 is a necessary modification of existing law under the Tribal 
Forest Protection Act. Specifically, please include in your response 
how such a change will benefit federally-recognized Tribes in Alaska, 
and describe the types of forest management activities ANCs would 
potentially undertake for their benefit.
    Answer. Including Alaska Native Corporation lands in the definition 
of ``Indian forest land or rangeland'' in S. 4370 will enable both 
Alaska Native Corporations and the Federal Government to pursue shared-
stewardship of forest resources throughout the State of Alaska, as well 
as collaborative approaches to land management issues and emergencies 
that may arise. We have been seeking inclusion in the Act since prior 
to enactment of the original law, so this amendment is long overdue. S. 
4370 ensures that Alaska Native owned lands in Alaska are not excluded 
from opportunities provided today to Tribally-owned lands in the Lower-
48 states and only minimally in Alaska.
    As you know, the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act of 1971 
(ANCSA) transferred more than 44 million acres of federal land to 
Alaska Native Corporations to support the economic, social, and 
cultural well-being of the Alaska Native people. Unfortunately, the 
Tribal Forest Protection Act (TFPA), as originally enacted, excludes 
ANCSA lands, hindering the ability of Alaska Native Corporations to 
engage in shared-stewardship activities with their primary neighbor, 
the Federal Government. This does a disservice to Alaska's Native 
communities, to our federal neighbors, and to other forest stakeholders 
who rely on our Alaska Native Corporations as land managers within a 
unique and important forest environment.
    During the hearing on S. 4370, I noted that Angela Coleman, 
Associate Chief of the U.S. Forest Service, testified last year (in a 
hearing held by the Senate Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition and 
Forestry) that ``[c]limate change, wildfire, and other natural 
disturbances do not respect land management boundaries; therefore, we 
need policies and management approaches . . . that remove barriers and 
allow for shared stewardship and cross-boundary management.'' In my 
testimony, I called attention to the fact that well over 2 million 
acres of forestland in Alaska has been affected by a spruce beetle 
outbreak alone. Forestland throughout the state is increasingly 
impacted by wildfires. If S. 4370 is enacted, an Alaska Native 
Corporation would be able to enter into an agreement with its federal 
neighbor--the U.S. Forest Service (USFS) or the Bureau of Land 
Management (BLM)--to help manage spruce beetle outbreaks or to reduce 
fuel loads on the federal lands bordering ANCSA lands.
    Additionally, land management in Alaska--as in other Western 
states--is complicated by land ownership patterns that are 
``checkerboarded''--with federal and Native-owned lands in some cases 
quite literally alternating in a checkerboard pattern across the map. 
Occasionally, federal land is isolated within Native-owned lands. 
Although the Federal Government can access that land, from an 
operational perspective, and for the sake of efficiency, it may make 
sense for an Alaska Native Corporation to address pest or fuel load 
issues on federal lands that are surrounded by Native-owned land, 
particularly if the Alaska Native Corporation is planning to engage in 
such activities already on their own lands. BLM and USFS should have 
the ability to utilize the TFPA to achieve these goals with Alaska 
Native Corporations.
    You also ask specifically ``how including Alaska Native Corporation 
lands in the definition of `Indian forest land or rangeland' . . . will 
benefit federally-recognized Tribes in Alaska'' and to provide examples 
of the types of projects Alaska Native Corporations might ``undertake 
for the[] benefit'' of the Tribes.
    First and foremost, I want to emphasize that S. 4370 will serve to 
protect the lives of Tribal citizens. When the Tribal Forest Protection 
Act was enacted in 2004, Congress recognized that fires in the summer 
of 2003 had burned from federal lands onto several Indian reservations, 
resulting in property damage and killing 10 people. The House Committee 
on Resources observed at the time that ``this was not a first-time 
occurrence.'' Congress therefore sought to enact legislation that would 
``help reduce the threat of future tragedies'' by setting up a process 
that allowed Indian Tribes to perform hazardous fuels reduction 
operations and other forest health projects on neighboring USFS and BLM 
lands. H. Rept. 108-509 (May 20, 2004).
    Under ANCSA, Congress directed Alaska Native Corporations to select 
land around each of more than 200 Alaska Native villages in Alaska. As 
a result, with few exceptions, Alaska Native Corporations today quite 
literally own the land surrounding Alaska Native villages throughout 
the state. Most, if not all, of these Native Villages are home to 
federally-recognized Tribes and Tribal citizens. Congress enacted the 
TFPA to empower Indian Tribes to protect Tribal communities on Tribal 
lands. The Alaska Native community at the time implored Congress to 
include ANCSA lands in that legislation. Congress elected not to do so, 
and in making that decision, Congress chose to deny access to a program 
intended to save lives to the more than 200 Native communities in 
Alaska.
    An Alaska Native Corporation might undertake a project for the 
specific benefit of a Tribal Government for a variety of reasons. For 
example, an Alaska Native Corporation could agree to undertake a 
project to achieve priorities shared by the Alaska Native Corporation 
and the local Tribe or Tribes. At the request of a Tribe, an Alaska 
Native Corporation could undertake a project that would help to achieve 
priorities identified by the Tribe in consultation with the BLM or USFS 
and other forest stakeholders, particularly if the Native Corporation 
has the capacity to undertake the project but the Tribe does not.
    However, I would expect that most projects will be undertaken for 
the benefit not of the Tribe, per se, but for the benefit of the Alaska 
Native village, or to protect the forest itself. This protection will 
benefit the Tribe and Tribal members who are residents of the village 
or who otherwise depend on the protection of the forest. For example, 
in ANCSA, Congress sought to convey land to Alaska Native Corporations 
to protect the continuation of Alaska Native subsistence uses on the 
land conveyed. A TFPA project that protects Alaska Native forestland 
from disease or fire will ensure that Tribal members can continue to 
rely on that land to support their families. Congress also directed 
Alaska Native Regional Corporations to identify cemeteries and 
historical sites (many of which are ``sacred'' sites) to protect that 
land for the Alaska Native community. Regional Corporations applied for 
roughly 2,300 of these sites under ANCSA. These sites are typically 
remote and, in most cases, are surrounded by or adjacent to BLM or USFS 
land. A TFPA project that protects such a site from the threat of 
wildfire might avoid a loss of incalculable cultural and historical 
value to Tribal members.
    Ultimately, S. 4370 will benefit a wide range of forest 
stakeholders, including the federal government, the non-Native 
residents of our villages, Alaska Native shareholders and Tribal 
citizens, recreational users who share our resources, and the fish and 
wildlife that depend on sound forest management.

    Question 2. What is AFN's understanding of how the proposed 
criteria of ``special geographic, historical, or cultural significance 
to the Indian tribe'' in S. 4370 will be applied to Alaska Native 
Corporations?
    Answer. The TFPA includes Alaska Native Corporations as ``Indian 
Tribes'' within its original definitions. S. 4370 merely expands the 
definition of ``Indian forest land or rangeland'' to include ANCSA 
lands. Accordingly, the proposed extension of the TFPA's scope to lands 
of ``special geographic, historical, or cultural significance to the 
Indian tribe'' will apply both to federally-recognized Indian Tribes 
and to Alaska Native Corporations.
    Your question asks specifically how the proposal to expand the TFPA 
to ``special geographic, historical, or cultural significance to the 
Indian tribe'' will apply to Alaska Native Corporations. I think the 
answer to this question largely depends on the circumstances of 
individual Alaska Native Corporations and their responsibilities as 
land managers. I can imagine, for example, that an Alaska Native 
Corporation might be actively engaged in mitigating wildfire threats to 
isolated ``cemetery and historical sites'' within its ownership. In 
doing so, it may find itself well-positioned to partner with the BLM or 
USFS to address threats to related, federally-managed sites within the 
same geographic area. Taking this shared-stewardship approach to the 
preservation of sites of ``special geographical, historical, or 
cultural significance'' might be compared, broadly, to the approach 
utilized in the Tribal Heritage Grant program, which assists Indian 
Tribes, Alaskan Native Corporations, and Native Hawaiian Organizations 
with efforts to protect and promote their cultural heritage and 
traditions, ``whether on or off the reservation.'' Arbitrary land 
management boundaries should not stand in the way of federal programs 
that might otherwise support a holistic approach to the preservation of 
our cultural heritage.
    Thank you for holding a hearing on S. 4370, and thank you for the 
opportunity to address your questions and to provide additional 
information to the Committee. I hope this response is helpful to you, 
and I welcome any other questions you may have about this important 
legislation.
                                 ______
                                 
    Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Brian Schatz to 
                           Hon. Thora Padilla
    Question. The 2018 Farm Bill authorized the U.S. Forest Service to 
enter into 638 agreements with Tribes for Tribal Forest Protection Act 
activities. Should Congress consider expanding this authority, and if 
so, how would 638 expansion complement S. 4370 in practice?
    Answer. Yes, the Mescalero Apache Tribe fully supports expansion of 
the 2018 Farm Bill's 638 Tribal Forestry program by removing the 
``Demonstration'' program designation to make the program permanent and 
by adding a funding mechanism. Mescalero was one of the first Tribal 
Governments to testify in support of the 638 Tribal Forestry provision 
during the 115th Congress. We supported moving the Tribal Forest 
Protection Act (TFPA) from stewardship contracting authority, which 
treats Tribes as vendors--to the 638 model, which acknowledges the 
distinct governmental status of Indian Tribes and respects tribal 
sovereignty.
    The current 638 Tribal Forestry program authorizes the Forest 
Service and BLM to enter into self-determination contracts with Tribes 
for forestry-related projects on federal lands that are adjacent to 
Indian lands. The proposals included in S. 4370 would be a natural 
complement to these existing authorities by permitting Tribes to work 
on projects with these same land management agencies--on Indian lands 
(which would help offset the significant and longstanding funding 
shortfalls for tribal forest management) and throughout federal lands, 
which would enable Tribes to impact landscape scale management of 
federal lands to which a Tribe has a close connection.
    The 638 Tribal Forestry program holds this great potential but 
needs added improvements. As noted in my written testimony, in the 
summer of 2023, when I reached out to work with the Lincoln National 
Forest on a 638 Forestry contract, I was told that the project didn't 
meet the TFPA requirements, and even if it did there was no funding to 
support the proposed 638 contract.
    To improve both the existing 638 Tribal Forestry program and the 
proposed provisions in S.4370, we ask the Committee to remove the 
``demonstration'' designation from the 638 Tribal Forestry program and 
make it permanent. To ensure implementation of the program, we ask that 
you add a funding mechanism to the 638 Forestry program that also 
covers contract support costs. We ask that you amend the program to 
limit an agency's ability to reject valid tribal requests to engage in 
638 forestry contracts or compacts. And finally, we ask that you extend 
Federal Tort Claims Act protection to the tribe and tribal employees 
engaged in TFPA 638 Forestry contracts.
    These additional improvements to the 638 Tribal Forestry program 
will enable Tribes to consistently enter into contracts and compacts 
with the Forest Service and BLM. Once this takes place, Tribes and 
Tribal priorities will become part of the agency decisionmaking 
process, making positive impacts on the exercise of tribal treaty 
rights, protection of Native sacred places, and protection of tribal 
investments on federal lands.

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