[Senate Hearing 118-533]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                     S. Hrg. 118-533

                  THE CLIMATE-DRIVEN INSURANCE CRISIS
                       IS HERE_AND GETTING WORSE

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                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                        COMMITTEE ON THE BUDGET
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

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                           December 18, 2024

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           Printed for the use of the Committee on the Budget
           
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                              www.govinfo.gov

                                __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
58-016                     WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
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                        COMMITTEE ON THE BUDGET

               SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island, Chairman
               
PATTY MURRAY, Washington             CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa
RON WYDEN, Oregon                    MIKE CRAPO, Idaho
DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan            LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont             RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin
MARK R. WARNER, Virginia             MITT ROMNEY, Utah
JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon                 ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas
TIM KAINE, Virginia                  MIKE BRAUN, Indiana
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland           JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
BEN RAY LUJAN, New Mexico            RICK SCOTT, Florida
ALEX PADILLA, California             MIKE LEE, Utah

                   Dan Dudis, Majority Staff Director
        Kolan Davis, Republican Staff Director and Chief Counsel
                   Mallory B. Nersesian, Chief Clerk 
                  Alexander C. Scioscia, Hearing Clerk
                           
                           C O N T E N T S

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                      WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 18, 2024
                OPENING STATEMENTS BY COMMITTEE MEMBERS

                                                                   Page
Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, Chairman.............................     1
    Prepared Statement...........................................    26
Senator Charles E. Grassley......................................     4
    Prepared Statement...........................................    28

                    STATEMENTS BY COMMITTEE MEMBERS

Senator Alex Padilla.............................................    15
Senator John Kennedy.............................................    17
Senator Tim Kaine................................................    19
Senator Ben Ray Lujan............................................    21

                               WITNESSES

Dr. Benjamin Keys, Professor of Real Estate and Finance, Wharton 
  School, University of Pennsylvania.............................     6
    Prepared Statement...........................................    31
Mr. Ernest Shaghalian Jr., CPCU, AAI, Independent Insurance 
  Agent, Butler & Messier Inc. Insurance, Pawtucket, RI..........     8
    Prepared Statement...........................................    33
Dr. Robert Hartwig, Clinical Associate Professor of Finance, 
  Darla Moor School of Business, University of South Carolina....    10
    Prepared Statement...........................................    35

                                APPENDIX

Responses to post-hearing questions for the Record
    Dr. Keys.....................................................    45
    Dr. Hartwig..................................................    47
Charts submitted for the Record by Chairman Whitehouse...........    52
Document submitted for the Record by Chairman Whitehouse.........    54
Document submitted for the Record by Senator Kennedy.............   138
Document submitted for the Record by Senator Padilla.............   163

 
                    NEXT TO FALL: THE CLIMATE-DRIVEN
                            INSURANCE CRISIS
                       IS HERE--AND GETTING WORSE

                              ----------                              


                      WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 18, 2024

                                           Committee on the Budget,
                                                       U.S. Senate,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The hearing was convened, pursuant to notice, at 10:00 
a.m., in the Dirksen Senate Office Building, Room SD-608, Hon. 
Sheldon Whitehouse, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Whitehouse, Kaine, Lujan, Padilla, 
Grassley, Braun, Kennedy, and R. Scott.
    Also present: Democratic Staff: Dan Dudis, Majority Staff 
Director; Jonathan Misk, Director of Oversight and Senior 
Counsel.
    Republican Staff: Chris Conlin, Deputy Staff Director; 
Krisann Pearce, General Counsel; Jordan Pakula, Professional 
Staff Member; James Layne, Investigative Counsel.
    Witnesses:
    Dr. Benjamin Keys, Professor of Real Estate and Finance, 
Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania
    Mr. Ernest Shaghalian, Jr., CPCU, AAI, Independent 
Insurance Agent, Butler & Messier Inc. Insurance, Pawtucket, 
Rhode Island
    Dr. Robert Hartwig, Clinical Associate Professor of 
Finance, Darla Moore School of Business, University of South 
Carolina

          OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN WHITEHOUSE \1\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    \1\ Prepared statement of Chairman Whitehouse appears in the 
appendix on page 26.
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    Chairman Whitehouse. Good morning, everyone. I call to 
order this hearing of the Senate Budget Committee. Today's 
hearing is entitled ``Next to Fall: The Climate-Driven 
Insurance Crisis is Here--and Getting Worse.'' I welcome all 
three witnesses who have come to share their expertise with us 
today. As far as process, we are familiar with it.
    Ranking Member Grassley and I will each have five minutes 
for opening remarks. Witnesses will then have up to five 
minutes each to deliver their oral testimony, and Senators will 
have five minutes each for questions. The complete testimony of 
each witness will be made a part of the record.
    This is our 42nd and final hearing of the Senate Committee 
on the Budget during this 118th Congress. It has been a 
pleasure and an honor to lead this Committee for the last two 
years. I am particularly proud of the work we have done to 
illuminate risks to the federal budget.
    In our first hearing in this Committee on February 15th, 
2023, I brought with me this binder. I have it again with me 
today. Nearly seven years ago, I sent a version of this binder 
to all of my Senate colleagues, in which I compiled some of the 
most compelling warnings about the economic risks associated 
with climate change. At the beginning of this Congress, I sent 
to the Committee this updated version of it.
    Today, this binder is even more relevant than ever, and I 
am continuing to update it with what we have learned over the 
past two years of hearings. Examining the economic risks and 
costs of climate change and the economic opportunities from 
investing in clean energy, we repeatedly heard about the 
central role that insurance affordability and availability play 
in our economic system.
    When insurance becomes unavailable, it can be impossible to 
get a mortgage. And when the pool of buyers is limited to those 
who can pay cash, that is lot fewer buyers and property values 
suffer. Multiple witnesses drew parallels to the 2008 financial 
crisis.
    So the Committee launched an investigation into homeowners 
insurance market conditions across the country, to better 
understand the troubles affecting the market. The Committee 
focused on non-renewal data, as insurance industry experts had 
indicating that spiking non-renewal rates, even if still low in 
absolute terms, are often an early warning sign of market 
destabilization. Higher non-renewal rates are also correlated 
with higher premium rates.
    Well, today we release that report with brand new 
information about the key questions of when and how bad this 
will get. The answers are now and very, and it is only getting 
worse. I would make one comment on the data that we relied on. 
I have a letter from the National Association of Insurance 
Commissioners (NAIC) suggesting that some of the data that we 
have might have unidentified inconsistencies and inaccuracies.
    I will put that letter into the record. We will continue to 
pursue with the NAIC what they mean by this letter, and if we 
need to make adjustments to the report we will correct the 
report accordingly. It is a bit of a mystery to me because they 
do not identify where those inconsistencies and inaccuracies 
are, what they might be, and we worked directly with 23 
insurance companies to get their data and not one of them 
indicated that they had any concerns about inconsistencies or 
inaccuracies in the data they were providing us.
    Around half of them submitted their data to us through the 
Milliman firm, which is perhaps the most respected and well-
regarded professional consulting and analytics firm in the 
insurance industry. And so that data was also compiled and 
combined together by Milliman, which also indicate--has not 
indicated that it has any concerns about inconsistencies or 
inaccuracies in the data.
    Now we have been at this for many months now, and this came 
in just at the last minute. So I have made the decision to just 
go ahead with the hearing, and I have confidence in the data. 
If it turns out that there are any inconsistencies or 
inaccuracies that we need to adjust for, we will then do so.
    This report is based on national, county level, non-renewal 
data from almost two dozen insurers, who together represent 
approximately two-thirds of the homeowners insurance market. So 
it is a big data set. Here are a few highlights:
    First, the data confirm that climate change is driving 
increasing non-renewal rates. The counties that are most 
exposed to climate-related risks, such as wildfires or 
hurricanes, are the counties seeing the highest non-renewal 
rates, especially counties in Florida, my friend Senator 
Kennedy's home state of Louisiana, and California.
    Second, the data reveal that those areas are not the only 
places experiencing spiking non-renewal rates and increasing 
premiums. Florida, as we would expect, has the highest average 
statewide non-renewal rate. But Texas, thought to be at 
significant risk, is not even in the top ten. Southern New 
England, the Carolinas, including inland North Carolina, 
Mississippi, New Mexico, counties in the northern Rockies, 
Oklahoma and Hawaii all suffer high non-renewal rates, 
demonstrating that the multiple climate-related effects, 
hurricanes, wildfires, severe convective storms, extreme 
precipitation and sea level rise are destabilizing widespread 
insurance markets.
    Third, the data confirms the correlation between rising 
non-renewal rates and rising premiums. This underscores our 
evidence that climate change has become a major cost of living 
issue for families across the country.
    Since this data was collected, climate change-driven 
extreme weather events have wreaked havoc across Florida and 
the southeastern United States, likely exacerbating the 
insurance crisis that is building across the country. But that 
data is not included in this set because it all happened since 
the set was closed.
    One thing is certain. Unless the United States and the 
world rapidly transitioned to clean energy, climate-related 
extreme weather events will become both more frequent and more 
violent, resulting in ever-scarcer insurance and ever higher 
premiums. This is predicted to cascade into plunging property 
values in communities where insurance becomes impossible to 
find or prohibitively expensive.
    A collapse in property values with the potential to trigger 
a full-scale financial crisis similar to what occurred in 2008, 
according to the Chief Economist of Freddie Mac. Only unlike in 
2008, these property values will likely never recover, because 
the risk is not going to go down, nor will the sea levels.
    Climate change is no longer just an environmental problem 
is our conclusion here. It is an economic threat, and it is an 
affordability issue that we should not ignore. I will close 
where I began around two years ago. My granddaughter Vera, who 
was then one year old is now nearly three.
    I said then that I was hopeful that by the end of our 
series of hearings, if we hear these expert witnesses, if we 
treat their testimony as our headlights, then our path would be 
clear. I hope that path has become more clear. I am not sure 
what I now have to say to my granddaughter, as climate-driven 
extreme weather events and the economic shocks that come with 
them continue to worsen.
    We really need to get this right for the sake of our 
planet's natural systems, for the sake of American families and 
their prosperity, and for the sake of future generations like 
Vera's.
    Let me conclude my remarks on this last of our hearings by 
turning the mic over to Ranking Member Grassley, and thank him 
for his many courtesies through these many hearings. He has not 
always agreed with the point of these hearings. His staff have 
often disagreed even more with the points of these hearings.
    But we have worked through a great number of issues, and 
Senator Grassley is one of the most courteous members of the 
Senate, and it has been a pleasure for me to have him as our 
Ranking Member through these two years. With that, over to you 
Chuck.
    Senator Grassley. I was hoping you wouldn't say that so I 
could say a few words, but I----
    Chairman Whitehouse. I get to go first for a while.
    Senator Grassley. I want to say that I associate myself 
with your remarks from the standpoint of Chuck Grassley 
appreciating a relationship, even though we have had some 
differences. But we serve on other committees together----
    Chairman Whitehouse. We do.
    Senator Grassley. And we do not have those same differences 
there. So I hope people will understand that even if we have 
approached this Committee with a little different approach, 
that we still get along and can work together.
    Chairman Whitehouse. And we have done good work across 
Judiciary, Finance and Budget Committees. So it is a pleasure. 
To you, sir.

           OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR GRASSLEY \2\
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    \2\ Prepared statement of Senator Grassley appears in the appendix 
on page 28.
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    Senator Grassley. So, repeating a little bit what I just 
said, our time at the helm of the Budget Committee is coming to 
an end. Disappointingly, it is ending in the same way it began, 
not focusing on our nation's unsustainable debt and deficits. 
Instead of prioritizing the Committee's core responsibilities, 
here we are holding the 21st hearing on climate change.
    I agree climate change is a serious issue meriting 
discussion, maybe on other committees as opposed to this 
Committee. But it is difficult for me to take seriously a 
report that the Chairman has talked about, that the Majority 
chooses not to share with all Members of the Committee before 
the Committee meeting.
    So today's hearing is not a discussion on the merits. I 
remain convinced that the Budget Committee should be focused on 
the immediate fiscal problems facing our country. The American 
people evidently feel the same way. The Majority invited left 
wing film producers, consultants, luxury fishing guides, snow 
skiers and other non-scientists to give us their opinion in the 
course of their 21 climate hearings.
    Their testimony used studies rooted in extreme climate 
change modeling that failed to convince anyone of an impending, 
climate doomsday. Fortunately, over these 21 hearings that we 
have had the last two years, minority witnesses, those that I 
choose to put at the table, had gave us actual scientific and 
economic expertise, testifying to debunk many of the underlying 
assertions of climate-driven fiscal collapse.
    Moreover, the Majority continues to ignore the nonpartisan 
Congressional Budget Office (CBO) analysis, finding that 
negative economic effects of climate change are dwarfed by 
those posed by our ballooning national debt. I understand why 
the Majority will not talk about our nation's fiscal 
trajectory.
    After all, that would require acknowledging the past four 
years of reckless spending, resulting in a 40 year high 
inflation, and that inflation continues to wreak havoc in the 
lives of middle class Americans.
    That negligent malpractice on the part of the Majority cost 
them the presidency and both houses of Congress. Instead of 
addressing the concerns of Americans head on, President Biden 
and his party attempted a strategy of deception and 
distraction.
    First, Democrats told the American people that inflation 
was transitory. I hope you remember that. That was in 2021, and 
that being transitory it was nothing to worry about. Once it 
became obvious this was not true, they took their far left 
spending agenda, which sparked inflation in the first place, 
and repackaged it as if it were some sort of a cure.
    Out of this, we got the ill-named Inflation Reduction Act, 
which even President Biden later admitted was less about 
fighting inflation than it was enacting their coveted Green New 
Deal. And of course CBO confirmed that bill actually increased 
inflation instead of reducing it.
    The Inflation Enhancement Act, as I prefer to call it, 
along with President Biden's expansive executive orders, 
flooded the economy with trillions of additional deficit 
spending, hardly a recipe for taming inflation and tamping down 
the rising cost of living.
    Bidenomics, as the President later rebranded it, was a 
colossal failure. Given this, there was little else to be done 
other than to change the topic to anything else. Whether that 
be abortion, trumped up legal charges against a political rival 
or the existential threat of climate change.
    Despite this very loud message, Americans sent in November, 
today's hearing is more of the same, rather than admitting 
inflation fueled by reckless spending caused insurance premiums 
to spike, climate change is used as the main scapegoat. Never 
mind that historic inflation caused the cost of building 
materials to rise nearly 40 percent since 2020.
    Given the impact of inflation on insurance costs, our time 
would be better spent exploring options to rein in $2 trillion 
annual deficits and a national debt that recently topped 36 
trillion. I had a good meeting with the Finance Minister of 
Sweden last week. Sweden's fiscally sustainable policies have 
near unanimous support across party lines and enjoy broad-based 
public support.
    Their fiscal framework establishes an annual deficit or 
surplus target, incorporates an anchor at 35 percent of Gross 
Domestic Product (GDP), and sets a reasonable expenditure 
limits. I would have liked to see this Committee spend more 
time this Congress exploring innovative approaches like this to 
address our fiscal mess. We barely spent any time.
    This Committee needs to move on to 2025 priorities, getting 
our fiscal house in order. Mr. Chairman, I wish you and your 
family a Merry Christmas and a Happy Holiday. Same to our 
witnesses all here today, and we will join in a new year 
working together on the Judiciary Committee.
    Chairman Whitehouse. I look forward to it, which you will 
be chairing. I look forward to it, and I guess time will tell 
who has been right about climate change. So there is no point 
having that argument here.
    Let me introduce our witnesses. Dr. Benjamin Keys is the 
Rowan Family Foundation Professor of Real Estate and Finance at 
the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School, and a faculty 
research fellow of the National Bureau of Economic Research. 
Among other things, Dr. Keys' research focuses on climate risk, 
housing, mortgage markets and the geography of household 
financial distress. Welcome, Dr. Keys. Good to see you back.
    Our second witness is Mr. Ernest Shaghalian, an insurance 
agent at Butler and Messier Insurance Agency in Pawtucket, 
Rhode Island, and a past president of the Rhode Island State 
Association of Independent Insurers. Mr. Shaghalian has been 
working in the insurance industry as an agent for 40 years, in 
both the Rhode Island and Massachusetts insurance markets. 
Ernie, it is wonderful to see you down here today in 
Washington.
    Finally, we have Dr. Robert Hartwig, Clinical Associate 
Professor of Finance and Director of the Risk and Uncertainty 
Management Center at the Darla Moore School of Business at the 
University of South Carolina. His research focuses on insurance 
markets and structures and risk management, among other things. 
Previously, he was president and economist for the Insurance 
Information Institute.
    I thank you all for being here today. You each have five 
minutes for your oral statement, and before I turn it over to 
Dr. Keys, I am just going to take a Rhode Island moment and go 
back--gosh, 30 years now, to when the Rhode Island Workers' 
Compensation system collapsed, which gave me some familiarity 
with insurance collapses. And I as a young staffer for the 
then-governor was handed the portfolio of fixing that mess.
    And Mr. Shaghalian was one of the leaders of the insurance 
industry, who helped us work us through to a resolution of that 
crisis. We basically rebuilt the workers' compensation system. 
Within the next five to ten years the cost per hour of payroll 
went down by 55.0 percent, and employees were extremely happy 
to not take benefit cuts.
    It took process improvements to make that happen, and to 
this day, the workers' compensation system is running smoothly 
in Rhode Island and other distressed workers' compensation 
systems around the country turn to us for lessons still. And so 
it's a particular delight to have Ernest Shaghalian here with 
us. Dr. Keys, to you.

 STATEMENT OF DR. BENJAMIN KEYS, PROFESSOR OF REAL ESTATE AND 
    FINANCE, WHARTON SCHOOL, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA \3\
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    \3\ Prepared statement of Dr. Keys appears in the appendix on page 
31.
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    Dr. Keys. Chairman Whitehouse, Ranking Member Grassley and 
Members of the Committee. Thank you for inviting me back to 
address the turmoil in insurance markets, its connection to 
climate change, and its effect on housing, mortgages and 
household well-being.
    My name is Ben Keys and I am a Professor of Real Estate and 
Finance at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School. My 
research agenda examines how households interact with the 
financial system, and how the financial system manages risk.
    I first testified before this Committee in March 2023.
    In the last year and a half the situation in the homeowners 
insurance market has gone from bad to worse. Both affordability 
and accessibility issues have reached a crisis point in many 
communities around the country.
    In terms of affordability, my new research with Professor 
Philip Mulder uses mortgage escrow data to build a dataset of 
47 million homeowners insurance premiums from 2014 to 2023. Our 
dataset shows rapidly increasing premiums across the country, 
but especially in the highest climate risk areas.
    We attribute this increase to a combination of inflation 
and financial frictions associated with the pass-through of 
rising reinsurance costs to homeowners policies. Insurers are 
responding to larger realized disaster losses, better data and 
risk models, and growing reinsurance costs. While raising 
premiums is one margin of adjustment, insurers also change 
where they are willing to write policies.
    Some of the largest insurance companies have exited 
markets, deciding that they cannot charge premiums that 
adequately reflect this growing risk. While many of these high 
profile departures have been publicly announced, all insurers 
continually reassess their risks and adjust their portfolios of 
policies in force.
    Turning to the issue of accessibility, the data collected 
by this Committee provide an unprecedented look at insurers' 
decisions to not renew an annual policy. To my knowledge there 
are no available granular data on non-renewal behavior beyond 
the data collected by this Committee.
    This new data covers 249 million policies from 2018 to 
2023, and yields a number of striking findings. First, since 
2020, the average non-renewal rate has almost exactly doubled. 
These rates and their increases are highest in those areas with 
the greatest risk of climate-related disasters.
    Next, while Florida and California are seeing the highest 
rates of non-renewals, they are also prevalent in high-risk 
coastal areas like the Carolinas and along the New England 
waterfront. Heightened non-renewal rates are also found 
elsewhere in the country, such as in areas affected by 
tornadoes and hail.
    Finally, while rate regulation may play a role in insurers' 
reluctance to do business in some markets, the most striking 
pattern from the data is that both premiums and non-renewal 
rates are higher in markets with more disaster risk. In other 
words, accessibility and affordability issues go hand in hand.
    To briefly characterize the accessibility issues, the data 
show that 1.9 million policies were non-renewed between 2018 
and 2023. That amount represents 1.9 million times that a 
household had to quickly find a new insurer, very likely at a 
higher premium, while juggling many other expenses and 
commitments on their time.
    If non-renewal rates had stayed at their 2020 level, there 
would have been 423,000 fewer non-renewals. The cornerstone of 
the private homeowners insurance market in the United States is 
healthy and robust competition. When fewer insurers do business 
in a market, as we see now, this reduces the options available 
to homeowners and their ability to shop for the best rate.
    In the most extreme case where a homeowner cannot find any 
private insurer, these risks fall on state-backed insurers of 
last resort, and potentially on taxpayers themselves. The 
rising cost of coverage and the departure of insurers from 
property markets has serious implications for home values, the 
dominant store of wealth for the average household.
    It also threatens communities that rely heavily on property 
taxes to provide basic services and defend against further 
climate-related damage. In addition, the insurance crisis 
raises concerns for mortgage giants Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and 
the Federal Housing Administration (FHA), especially as the 
number of outstanding flood insurance policies backed by the 
National Flood Insurance Program have fallen by 16 percent 
since 2009.
    There is an enormous imbalance between the rich data and 
sophisticated models that insurers have at their fingertips and 
the information available to the average American household or 
city mayor. Without adequate data, households and policymakers 
cannot develop meaningful solutions to mitigate growing 
climate-induced disaster risk. A starting point would be a 
coordinated federal effort to collect and distribute relevant 
data on insurance costs, physical risks and resiliency 
investment options. I commend this Committee for taking 
unprecedented steps to measure accessibility issues, and look 
forward to further coordinated efforts to provide timely data 
to decisionmakers.
    Property insurance is facing a crisis on two pressing 
fronts, affordability and accessibility. While the Rolling 
Stones might say ``you can't always get what you want,'' in 
insurance markets now households cannot even get what they 
need. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify.
    Chairman Whitehouse. Thanks very much. For the record, that 
may be the first Rolling Stones reference in the history of the 
Budget Committee. Mr. Shaghalian, welcome. Please proceed with 
your statement.

  STATEMENT OF ERNEST SHAGHALIAN, JR., CPCU, AAI INDEPENDENT 
INSURANCE AGENT, BUTLER AND MESSIER, INC. INSURANCE, PAWTUCKET, 
                        RHODE ISLAND \4\
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    \4\ Prepared statement of Mr. Shaghalian appears in the appendix on 
page 33.
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    Mr. Shaghalian. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member----
    Chairman Whitehouse. Microphone on?
    Mr. Shaghalian. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Grassley and 
Members of the Committee, my name is Ernest Shaghalian. I am an 
insurance agent at Butler and Messier Insurance Agency in 
Pawtucket, Rhode Island. We are members of the Independent 
Insurance Agents of Rhode Island, and I am a past president of 
the state association.
    Independent insurance agents represent many different 
insurance companies at once, but are not employees of any 
insurer. Our customers are your constituents. I am here to 
testify that the insurance marketplace in Rhode Island, is the 
worst I have ever seen it in my 40 years as an agent, and 
getting worse each year.
    The increased frequency and severity of weather events has 
created havoc in the cost and availability of home, business 
and even auto insurance. During recent years, Rhode Island's 
coastal communities, which are high wind risk areas, have seen 
a 562 percent increase in non-renewals.
    Two insurers left the Rhode Island market during the last 
two years. One of them came to Rhode Island about 12 years ago, 
specializing in homeowners policies for coastal communities at 
reasonable rates. They are now in receivership, cancelling 
thousands of policies midterm. A third insurer announced that 
in 2025 they will be non-renewing all their home and auto 
policies in Rhode Island and all the other states where they 
operate.
    If I had a professional Christmas wish list, at the top of 
it would be that states required insurance companies to give 
more advanced notice before allowing to withdraw from 
territories, unless they demonstrated actual financial 
distress. When there are non-renewals, it creates a big problem 
for consumers because most standard insurers will not accept 
new customers in coastal communities.
    This has increased the population in the Rhode Island Joint 
Reinsurance Association, the residual market risk pool, 
whatever you want to call it, by 30 percent during the last two 
years. Consumers pay between 35 and 50 percent more in the risk 
pool for a basic homeowners policy that does not offer optional 
coverages like jewelry riders.
    Other consumers have no alternative than buying coverage 
through the unregulated surplus lines market. Insurers have had 
large, multi-year premium increases, contributing to the 
affordability problem for first-time homebuyers and putting a 
major strain on the budget of existing homeowners. Thousands of 
Rhode Island consumers have a five percent hurricane damage 
deductible. A homeowner with a $500,000 house would have a 
$25,000 hurricane damage deductible, more than most people 
could afford to fix their house.
    Massachusetts coastal communities have also had a spike in 
policy non-renewals. Just in Barnstable County, Cape Cod, there 
are 51,184 homeowners insured through the Massachusetts 
Property Insurance Underwriting Association, their residual 
market or risk pool, unable to get adequate dwelling property 
limits on large homes.
    Businesses that own property in coastal communities have no 
alternative but to get coverage in the unregulated surplus 
lines market at a much higher cost. These insurers require non-
standard exclusions that would eliminate coverage for 
potentially devastating property and liability losses.
    In recent years, we have seen more frequent incidents of 
sudden street flooding, causing total losses on dozens of cars 
each time, adding to the cost of auto insurance. Our highway 
infrastructure can no longer handle the increased amounts of 
rain in short time spans. Homes and businesses that are not in 
flood zones are getting flooded.
    It is not just the big, well-publicized hurricane claims, 
but more frequent and severe local storms. In Rhode Island 
since 2018, we have had six tornado strikes. Prior to that, it 
took 32 years for six tornado strikes. We have new weather 
hazards like atmospheric rivers, which cause floods to wide 
sections of the country, and we are seeing wildfires in places 
that never had them.
    When insurance companies do not accept millions of dollars 
of premiums, even at today's much higher prices, that tells me 
they think things are going the wrong way. Thank you for the 
opportunity to testify, and relay the complaints that we get 
from our customers every single day. The crisis is not with 
insurance companies; the crisis is with consumers. Thank you.
    Chairman Whitehouse. Thanks very much, Mr. Shaghalian. Dr. 
Hartwig. Over to you.

 STATEMENT OF DR. ROBERT HARTWIG, CLINICAL ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR 
OF FINANCE, DARLA MOORE SCHOOL OF BUSINESS, UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH 
                          CAROLINA \5\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    \5\ Prepared statement of Dr. Hartwig appears in the appendix on 
page 35.
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    Dr. Hartwig. Thank you, Senator Whitehouse, Ranking Member 
Grassley and Members of this Committee. Good morning. My name 
is Robert Hartwig, and I am a Clinical Associate Professor of 
Risk Management, Insurance and Finance at the University of 
South Carolina (USC). Prior to joining USC, I spent 23 years in 
the property casualty insurance and reinsurance industries, 
during which I had the opportunity to work on a wide variety of 
issues related to the industry's exposure to catastrophic loss.
    Let me get straight to the point. The insurance industry is 
not in the midst of a climate-driven crisis, nor is it about to 
fall. Strength and stability are the hallmarks of this 
industry.
    Indeed, a recent report from A.M. Best, the largest 
insurance rating agency in the U.S., found that the cumulative 
impairment rate of A.M. Best-rated insurers over any 15 year 
period from 2001 through 2023 was just 0.3 percent, down 
significantly from the 3.9 percent over the 1977 to 2001 
period.
    In other words, there is no evidence that the industry is 
on the precipice of collapse, despite material increases in 
insured losses arising from natural disasters over the past 
quarter century. There are also no insurers designated as 
systemically important financial institutions or SIFIs, and 
since 2017 the U.S. Treasury's Financial Stability Oversight 
Council, FSOC, have effectively ceased relying on non-bank 
Systemically Important Financial Institution (SIFI) 
designations for regulatory purposes.
    Examining the data collected by this Committee, which I 
received just yesterday on non-renewal rates for homeowners 
insurance reveal that a small increase in the non-renewal rate 
for the U.S. overall is largely driven by two states, Florida 
and California. The same pattern of increase is not observed in 
other large, disaster-prone states such as Texas and New York, 
suggesting that there are idiosyncratic issues that play a 
major role in determining insurance availability and 
affordability in both of those states.
    In the vast majority of states, 99 percent plus of 
homeowners are able to renew their policies each and every 
year. Climate risk is an important determinant in the cost of 
insurance, but there has been a tendency, however, to over-
attribute the impact of climate change when describing the 
state of insurance markets.
    The dynamics of insurance markets are far more complex than 
can be explained by climate change and isolation, with insured 
losses and ultimately the price and availability of coverage 
determined by a range of factors including rapid population 
growth and urbanization, inflation, litigation and fraud. To 
take population growth as an example, since 1970 the U.S. 
population has increased by 65 percent. In catastrophe-prone 
states, it has been far more than that.
    The population of hurricane-prone Florida, for example, is 
up 217 percent since 1970. In the Cape Coral-Fort Myers Metro 
Area, it's up 620 percent. Why do I bring that up? Because it 
is unsurprising that when Hurricane Ian made landfall in that 
area just two years ago, insured losses totaled some $55 
billion, making Ian the second most costly natural disaster in 
U.S. history.
    This example vividly illustrates the dominance of 
demographics over climate change as a driver of insured loss. 
Let me move to inflation. Inflation in the U.S. in recent years 
reached the highest level in 40 years. Inflation directly and 
immediately impacted the cost of repair and rebuilding 
structures damaged not only by natural disasters, but property 
claims of all sizes, by all major perils throughout the 
country.
    Inflation, as experienced by property insurers in recent 
years, is actually materially higher than that as measured by 
the Consumer Price Index (CPI). From January 2020 through June 
of this year, the cost of construction materials increased by 
41 percent, nearly double the 21 percent of the CPI over the 
same period of time. Whereas home insurance premiums rose by 
approximately 18 percent over that same period.
    So again, the economic impact of inflation on property 
insurance claim costs dominates any impact from climate.
    Let me move on to litigation and fraud. Litigiousness and 
fraud have also contributed to the upward trend in claim costs, 
driving premiums upward and reducing coverage options for some 
policyholders. According to the Florida Office of Insurance 
Regulation, that state accounted for 76 percent of all 
homeowners insurance-related litigation in 2021 nationwide, 
despite account for only seven percent of homeowners' claims 
that year.
    Excessive litigation contributed not only to higher 
premiums in Florida, but a more than doubling in the policy 
count at Florida Citizens, the state's insurer of last resort. 
The recent leveling off in the number of policies in Florida 
Citizens is early evidence that reform legislation passed in 
2021 and '22 is beginning to improve insurance availability in 
that state.
    So let me summarize by saying that insured losses from 
natural disasters across the United States continue to rise, 
and they will continue to rise for the foreseeable future. 
Climate change drive incremental system costs. But the dynamic 
of insurance markets are complex. Many factors have contributed 
to the record and near-record losses experienced in recent 
years, including demographics, inflation and litigation.
    Meaningful reforms, coupled with investments in mitigation 
are proven solutions that can help ensure the stability of 
insurance markets across the country. Thank you for the 
opportunity to testify before the Committee today. I will be 
happy to respond to any questions you may have.
    Chairman Whitehouse. Thank you very much. Dr. Keys, let me 
start with you. I want to show this graph from our report, 
which compares the non-renewal rates that we found across the 
country over time, and adjusts--breaks them out into the 
various climate risk quintiles.
    It appears that depending on your quintile, lowest climate 
risk, lowest non-renewal rate increase, higher climate risk, 
higher climate renewal increase, and all the way up into the 
top quintile, where the non-renewal rate really is growing 
explosively. That is the information that we gathered. How does 
that correlate with what your work shows?
    Dr. Keys. Well, thank you Senator. I think that this is the 
most striking chart in the report, and the data that has been 
shared with me very clearly show an extremely sharp and 
differential increase in those riskiest, most exposed counties. 
I think one of the other striking takeaways is how much 
variation there is within states. And so even in a state that 
might have the same regulatory regime across the entire state, 
you see very different patterns say along the Carolina coast.
    Chairman Whitehouse. Before you--before you to go that----
    Dr. Keys. Yes.
    Chairman Whitehouse. Let me just go back. More climate 
risk, higher non-renewal rates.
    Dr. Keys. Dramatically----
    Chairman Whitehouse. Is that correlation consistent with 
what you see through your own research?
    Dr. Keys. Yes. Much higher, much higher non-renewal rates 
here, much higher premiums in the----
    Chairman Whitehouse. Well, let's flip to your second point, 
which coincidentally I want to illustrate with a second graph. 
So we have graphs in the report that show the state level of 
non-renewables, and unsurprisingly, Florida and Southern 
California, where the wildfires are very significant.
    But once you actually drill down to the county levels, as 
you were beginning to describe I believe, which is why I wanted 
to put this graphic up, then you begin to see things break out 
that are a little unexpected. I mean obviously every county in 
Florida is in big trouble, with very high non-renewal rates. 
But if you look up for instance at New York, New York does not 
even appear in the top 30 states, I do not believe. It is not 
particularly troubled from a non-renewal point of view.
    But when you drill down to the counties, and you look at 
say a coastal county on Long Island, suddenly you see the same 
explosive growth in non-renewal rates and the same high non-
renewal rates that you see. Could you comment a little bit on 
what drilling down to the county level shows us about how this 
non-renewal crisis is developing?
    Dr. Keys. Yes, thank you. I think it reinforces this, this 
takeaway along the lines of the last figure you showed, which 
is that there is differential risk and that especially exposed 
counties are seeing much sharper changes in the availability of 
insurance. We are also seeing that that is related to the price 
of insurance as well.
    So certainly related and very much concentrated in the 
highest climate risk areas, especially along the coasts. But 
also in areas, as you mentioned at the outset, like in Oklahoma 
and parts of New Mexico.
    Chairman Whitehouse. Which would suggest that insurers are 
making highly localized risk-based decisions when they are 
deciding to non-renew, and not just writing off all of New York 
or something like that. They are really drilling down and 
looking closely at individual properties and property owners. 
Mr. Shaghalian, is that what you are seeing in Rhode Island? Do 
you think the insurers are paying--can differentiate between 
coastal properties, for instance, and others?
    Mr. Shaghalian. So what I see in Rhode Island----
    Chairman Whitehouse. If your microphone is not on, please 
turn it on.
    Mr. Shaghalian. It is on, I guess.
    Chairman Whitehouse. Okay, good.
    Mr. Shaghalian. Yeah. So what I see in Rhode Island is most 
insurers have like a mileage, you know. If you are within three 
miles of the coast, then you have got problems. In Rhode Island 
as you know, you know, if you are in Foster, Rhode Island or 
you are in ten miles, 12 miles inland, it is not that much of a 
problem. So it is predominantly the coastal communities.
    Chairman Whitehouse. And I understood, Dr. Hartwig's 
testimony to be basically insurance is sound, insurance is 
stable, nothing to see here folks, not a problem. How does 
correlate with your experience with your clients in Rhode 
Island? Are they seeing that everything's fine and there are no 
problems?
    Mr. Shaghalian. So there is no problem with the insurance 
companies. The problem is with the consumers that are being 
forced into risk pools, being forced into the surplus lines 
markets, being forced to pay more money for the insurance and 
having, you know, less availability of optional coverages.
    Chairman Whitehouse. My time is up. Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Grassley. Thank you, thank you. Dr. Hartwig, is 
there any evidence that over the past quarter century, 
insurance companies have had an increased failure rate because 
of climate change?
    Dr. Hartwig. Thank you, Senator. In fact, there is no 
evidence that over the past quarter century, that there has 
been any increase in the failure rate, the rate of 
insolvencies, the rate of impairment as we typically refer to 
it with respect to property casualty insurance or reinsurance 
companies as a result of climate change or quite frankly, for 
any other manner.
    The data I cited earlier from A.M. Best, the premier rating 
organization of insurers in the United States, is quite clear 
on this, that in fact the insolvency rate, the impairment rate 
of insurers has actually fallen dramatically over the past 
quarter century.
    So what this shows is that insurers have done a good job of 
managing this risk. What insurers are doing is try to make 
insurance available everywhere that they can, but they can only 
do if they can earn a fair rate of return. Going back to the 
figures that Professor Keys just showed, as he acknowledged in 
his testimony that the numbers overall are very, very heavily 
influenced by Florida and California, okay.
    And when we look at those two states, those two states have 
structural issues. I will take Florida for an example. 
Absolutely rampant legal abuse in the system that drove up 
system costs, and was in fact the principle factor associated 
with the impairment of a number of insurance companies in that 
state, okay, leading to an explosive growth in the state's 
market of last resort.
    Very fortunately, we have had a series of reforms in recent 
years, and in fact Chart 2, Exhibit 2 in my testimony, what you 
see is that the non-renewal rate in Florida in fact seems to 
have peaked at around three percent, even went down slightly in 
2023. Those reforms took place in 2022, at the very end of 
2022, so are really bearing fruit just this year.
    So I expect to see in fact the non-renewal rates in states 
like Florida fall. California has been a bit slower. They have 
been slow to come around to the realization of reform. They 
finally signed onto that. Some of those reforms will go into 
place in 2025. Some of them went into place this year.
    We would expect to see a turnaround there and in both 
states, we are seeing insurers signal that they are coming back 
into the marketplace, as a result of the reforms. They are not 
talking about climate. They are talking about the obstacles to 
writing coverage in these states are related to the legal 
environment associated with those states.
    Obviously, there is the explosive population growth, and 
then of course the pressures associated with the inflation.
    Senator Grassley. I think you have answered this question, 
but I am going to ask it anyway and I want you to decide if you 
have answered it. Are fraud and litigation major drivers of the 
insurance prices and what can state governments do to limit the 
effect of these factors have on insurance costs?
    Dr. Hartwig. Right. So, yes. In my response to the last 
question, I think I discussed quite a few of these things. But 
when we think about--let me give you an example in Florida, to 
be very concrete. And Florida's problem, which again is often 
ascribed to climate and not to say that climate is not a driver 
of loss.
    But Florida's problems and California's problems are 
largely man-made disasters. In the state of Florida, for 
instance, an issue called assignment of benefits, which I did 
not see reported at all in the report that we received 
yesterday, not discussed at all.
    This is a situation which, to my knowledge, is relatively 
unique in the country, where a policyholder can say to a 
roofing company hey, guess what? I am going to turn my policy 
effectively over to you. You deal with the insurance company. 
Well, what do you think is going to happen when you have a 
bunch of roofers that are now in charge of millions of people's 
insurance policies?
    They are going to knock on everyone's door and get every 
roof in the entire state to try to be replaced, even when it 
does not need to be replaced. This results in immense amounts 
of litigation, for which insurers had not priced into the 
policies. Their only thing that they could do at that point is 
essentially impose moratoria on writing new policies until the 
situation was solved from a regulatory perspective.
    And that is exactly what happened in 2022, when Governor 
DeSantis called two special sessions of the legislature.
    Senator Grassley. Dr. Hartwig, my last question. Democrats 
intentionally withheld their new staff report on the effect of 
climate change on insurance. As a result, my staff did not have 
an opportunity to fully review their findings prior to the 
hearing.
    However, they did provide raw data concerning non-renewals. 
What stuck out to you in your review of this data?
    Dr. Hartwig. Right. So I was in the same boat of course, 
not receiving the--I received a spreadsheet with absolutely no 
detail as to actually what it was yesterday. But looking at it 
quickly, so as I mentioned, the U.S. non-renewal rate is 
greatly influenced by two states, California and Florida.
    If you back those out, and in fact in Exhibit 2 in my 
analysis, in my testimony, I show a column, the right-most 
column. It is called ``Median State.'' The variation in median 
state from 2018 non-renewal rate to 2023 goes from .79 percent 
to .86 percent, very little variation.
    So across the country, when you look at the individual 
state experience, again this is why I say 99 percent plus of 
policyholders across the country are able to renew their 
policies with--in virtually every year without a problem. I see 
that Florida's non-renewal rate has leveled off, and I would 
expect California within a year or two to see the same pattern.
    But again, the fact that large disaster-prone states like 
Texas and New York do not mirror the pattern we are seeing in 
states like California and Florida suggests that something else 
is at work, and that something else is not more climate change-
related pressures in Florida than there are in Texas.
    Lord knows, we have had a huge number of disasters in 
Texas. But Texas went through its cathartic moments in terms of 
problematic regulation of the insurance industry 15 or so years 
ago. They understand now that they need to create a market that 
attracts capital, capital in a place that is always going to be 
risky, and so far so good.
    Chairman Whitehouse. We have Senator Padilla, then Senator 
Kennedy, then Senator Kaine, then Senator Braun.
    Senator Padilla.

                  STATEMENT OF SENATOR PADILLA

    Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair. As you have led 
discussion in this Committee in the past, we, I think, 
acknowledge that the federal government needs to step up to 
increase coordination between states and insurance providers, 
help equip stakeholders with mitigation tools and help identify 
potential solutions to the clear insurance crisis.
    Now California has invested billions of dollars in wildfire 
risk reduction and implemented a number of programs designed to 
incentivize homeowners and businesses to make safety 
improvements. The federal support for such risk mitigation 
measures, infrastructure and home hardening, and community-wide 
resilience could better equip states to get creative on how to 
manage insurance, the insurance markets and affordability 
challenges.
    Dr. Keys, would you agree or disagree that there is space 
for the federal government to constructively engage on this 
issue, to help communities, to help states, to help industry 
better navigate the climate-led changes to the home insurance 
market?
    Dr. Keys. Thank you, Senator. I completely agree. I think 
that when we look at the landscape of property insurance, it is 
a market that is regulated at a state level. And so you have a 
lot of inconsistencies in terms of--in terms of what data is 
provided to consumers, what the regulatory landscape looks like 
for the insurers.
    We are operating in almost total darkness when it comes to 
data in this market, and it is really through the efforts of 
this Committee to get a glimpse into--into non-renewals. But if 
you think about all the other margins along which insurers are 
collecting sophisticated data and acting on that data, there is 
really no coordinated effort to understand their actions.
    So I think there is a very clear role for the federal--at 
the federal level to coordinate these efforts in terms of 
collecting data, better communicating risks to communities, and 
then to your point about mitigation, developing best principles 
for acting on that data and reducing risk.
    I think the risk is really not in the insurance industry 
per se. The risk is really about managing risk for households 
and communities.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you. That is actually very helpful. 
Now as we make progress on the data points that you just made 
and other tools and solutions, how would you address the 
concerns of skeptics who would say how is this actually going 
to translate into lower insurance premiums for families, as 
opposed to just increasing profits for insurers?
    Dr. Keys. I think this is one of the challenges right now, 
is understanding a bit more about how pricing works in this 
space and how much of that is really trying to meet the costs 
that insurers are facing, versus to your point, towards the 
profitability of issuing these policies.
    What we are seeing in many markets where, you know, the 
insurers are stepping back is we are seeing now an increased 
dependence on these state-run entities. They are going to have 
the data on how much it costs to insure these properties.
    And so I think there is a another layer of information that 
can be communicated there. And then I think just risk 
mitigation more broadly is actually a win-win, and that it is 
good for the insurers because they have to pay out less. And it 
is good for the households and it is also good for the mortgage 
market.
    And so we have to remember the chain here, which is that 
without good insurance, you cannot get a mortgage. Without a 
mortgage you cannot buy a house, and the mortgage market is one 
of the direct beneficiaries of this insurance landscape. And so 
I think we should think about them as well when we are thinking 
about who should bear some of the costs going forward to put 
together better information for--for households to make these 
kinds of mitigation choices.
    Senator Padilla. Okay. Thank you very much, and Mr. 
Chairman, Nevada County in California was highlighted in the 
Budget Committee's report, and I do have a letter I would like 
to submit into the record from Nevada County Supervisor Heidi 
Hall, addressing the local impacts of the climate-driven 
insurance crisis.\6\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \6\ Statement submitted by Senator Padilla appears in the appendix 
on page 163.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I think it would be--it is helpful perspective to add to 
this hearing and our----
    Chairman Whitehouse. Without objection.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Chairman Whitehouse. I should note that Senator Dawn Euer 
from Rhode Island is here. She represents Newport County, which 
is the county that our data shows has the highest non-renewal 
rate, highest non-renewal increase rate in Rhode island, 
consistent with the observations of Mr. Shaghalian, that the 
insurers are withdrawing from or raising rates dramatically, 
and/or forcing people into the assigned risk pool along the 
coastal high risk climate areas.
    And that will take us to Senator Kennedy of Louisiana.

                  STATEMENT OF SENATOR KENNEDY

    Senator Kennedy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dr. Keys, 
Professor Keys, are you clairvoyant?
    Dr. Keys. Thanks for the question, Senator. No, I am not.
    Senator Kennedy. I am not either. So when you make 
predictions, these are my words, not yours, when you make 
predictions that climate change is going to destroy home 
ownership and the insurance market and otherwise cause the 
earth to spin off its axis, those predictions are made on the 
basis of climate models, is that right?
    Dr. Keys. The forward-looking forecasts are based on 
models. My discussion was retrospective and focused on the data 
we have collected over the last five years.
    Senator Kennedy. If those models are wrong, then your 
predictions would be impacted, would they not?
    Dr. Keys. Senator, I would say that the famous quote is 
that ``All models are wrong, but some are useful,'' and in this 
case there is a preponderance of evidence that suggests the 
direction----
    Senator Kennedy. What is meant by methanethiol?
    Dr. Keys. I am not aware of that term, Senator.
    Senator Kennedy. I am surprised. I have read a lot of your 
writings. You seem to fancy yourself as a climate expert.
    Dr. Keys. Senator, I am an expert on housing markets, 
mortgage markets and insurance markets. I am not a climate 
scientist.
    Senator Kennedy. If I told you that methanethiol is a--is a 
sulfur-based aerosol gas, kind of smells like rotten cabbage 
that is produced by microscopic plankton in all of our oceans, 
which covers 75 percent of the earth's surface, would you have 
reason to disagree with me?
    Dr. Keys. I certainly would not, Senator. I am here to talk 
about insurance.
    Senator Kennedy. If I told you that this methanethiol, it 
is an aerosol which escapes into our environment. It oxidizes 
and produces particles that substantially reflect the sun's 
radiation and heat, and prevents climate change. Would you have 
a reason to disagree with me?
    Dr. Keys. I would not, Senator. I am here to talk about the 
insurance crisis.
    Senator Kennedy. I know you do not want to talk about 
things that undermine your confident assertions, but this is 
important. The Institute of Marine Sciences and the Cabrera 
Institute of Physical Chemistry just a few days ago published a 
startling study that's being widely reported, and it--and it 
found that while scientists in these climate change models on 
which you rely have always known about methanethiol, that now 
science has discovered ways to better measure it, and that it 
appears--not appears, it demonstrates that there is 25 percent 
more methanethiol being released into our atmosphere than any 
scientist ever thought.
    And that is going to have a huge impact on cooling the 
earth, and we are going to have to--to recalibrate all of our 
climate change models. I suggest you read it, Doc. I mean I see 
this essay that you wrote in the New York Times appropriate, 
New York Times, ``Climate Change Should Make You Rethink Home 
Ownership.'' Did you write that?
    Dr. Keys. Yes I did, Senator.
    Senator Kennedy. That is pretty bold. Do you own a home?
    Dr. Keys. I do, in a flood zone.
    Senator Kennedy. Have you sold it?
    Dr. Keys. Have I sold my home? I live in my home, sir.
    Senator Kennedy. Well, you are telling everybody else to 
sell theirs. You are a climate extremist, are not you 
Professor?
    Dr. Keys. Certainly not, Senator.
    Senator Kennedy. You are a political extremist, are you 
not?
    Dr. Keys. Certainly not, Senator.
    Senator Kennedy. On July 9th of 2024, did you tweet the 
following: ``Honestly, the biggest long-term political problem 
the Democrats have is that they do not know how to talk to low 
information morons''?
    Dr. Keys. I do not believe those are my words, Senator. I 
would have to be able to see them if you would share that with 
me.
    Senator Kennedy. Yeah. Here it is, big as Dallas.
    Dr. Keys. I do not believe those are my words, Senator.
    Senator Kennedy. You tweeted them.
    Dr. Keys. I do not believe that I did.
    Senator Kennedy. Yes, you did.
    Dr. Keys. I may have, liked someone else's tweet or 
retweeted someone else's tweet?
    Senator Kennedy. Oh. Do you often tweets you do not agree 
with?
    Dr. Keys. Those are not my words, Senator.
    Senator Kennedy. Yeah. But you tweeted them in approval, 
did you not?
    Dr. Keys. Those are not----
    Senator Kennedy. You can't make this cat walk backwards, 
Professor.
    Dr. Keys. Those are not my--those are not my words, 
Senator.
    Senator Kennedy. On July 16, 2024, did you tweet the 
following: ``A big part of modern right wing culture is this 
frisson of the illicit. The reading of this or that writer or 
account that are outre in whatever ways, fascists, race IQ 
[Intelligence Quotient] obsessives, Holocaust denial-adjacent, 
people with very weird sexual fixations and pathologies. They 
turn into their own philosophy, etcetera.''
    ``A lot of them, and I think this is true of Vance, and 
definitely true of the creepy Silicon Valley MAGA [Make America 
Great Again] weirdos have simply pickled their brains.''
    Dr. Keys. Again Senator, those are not my words and I did 
not----
    Senator Kennedy. You tweeted them, Professor.
    Dr. Keys. I did not tweet that, sir. Those are not my 
words.
    Chairman Whitehouse. Senator Kennedy, you are----
    Senator Kennedy. Let me make this last point.
    Chairman Whitehouse. You are more than two minutes over 
your time. We have other Senators waiting.
    Senator Kennedy. You have got a lot of nerve, Professor.
    Chairman Whitehouse. You always go over your time, so I 
have to call it for you.
    Senator Kennedy [continuing]. In lecturing us about 
Holocaust denial being from the University of Pennsylvania.
    Chairman Whitehouse. But really, you have other Senators 
who are waiting for their time, and you're well, well over 
yours.
    Senator Kennedy. Thank you for your indulgence, Mr. 
Chairman.
    Chairman Whitehouse. Senator Kaine.

                   STATEMENT OF SENATOR KAINE

    Senator Kaine. Thank you, Mr. Chair. You noted that one of 
the witnesses used a Rolling Stone lyric, so I am going to use 
one. ``Oh a storm is threatening my very life today. If I don't 
get some shelter, I'm going to fade away.'' So I am going to 
ask one question about shelter and one question about storms.
    So on the shelter question, I would sort of like address 
Professor Keys and Mr. Shaghalian. I am not thinking about 
climate models in this hearing. I have certainly thought about 
them in other hearings. I am just thinking about the experience 
of Virginians who are trying to get homeowners insurance or 
flood insurance, and what I hear from them.
    And I think that is the data that this hearing really is 
digging into. Let us talk a little bit about what that means if 
somebody's home is uninsurable. For most Americans, middle 
class Americans, their home is their principal source of 
wealth. It is their most significant asset.
    It is the asset whose appreciation in value also is often 
the beginning of a family being able to, over generations, 
amass more and more wealth. So let us--let us focus on that. If 
you live in an area where suddenly you cannot get insurance or 
when you are trying to sell your home and realize that wealth, 
purchasers are reticent to purchase, because they have a hard 
time getting insurance.
    What does that do to families in these areas, and we have 
them in Virginia too, Portsmouth and the Hampton Roads area. 
Mr. Shaghalian, if you could go first?
    Mr. Shaghalian. Yeah. So, yes. Especially with flood 
insurance, what you are saying is true, that if you go to sell 
your house and the buyer finds out that the flood insurance 
sometimes is 15, 20, 30 thousand dollars for flood insurance 
that can, you know, it can almost be that you cannot sell the 
house.
    And in the flood insurance, I mean you know, the federal 
government, you know, they make the rules and basically set the 
prices, and even though there is some private insurance out 
there now, the private insurance markets can decline people.
    So you know, that can be another problem. It is not a 
relief valve for everybody.
    Senator Kaine. So you either--you might not be able to sell 
your house, or you may have to sell it at a really significant 
discount because of the flood insurance.
    Mr. Shaghalian. Right. The buyer, you know, is not going to 
be willing to pay the same price if they know they are going to 
pay, you know, a lot of money for flood insurance?
    Senator Kaine. There are neighborhoods in the Hampton Roads 
area of Virginia, Portsmouth, for example, beautiful, historic 
neighborhoods where flooding used to be very rare and it is now 
quite common. And it is very, very difficult for people to sell 
their homes for example, what they purchased the homes for.
    And so we see this again and again, and then Dr. Keys, talk 
a little bit about what effect that has then on a family's 
ability to use this principal asset to have--have wealth?
    Dr. Keys. Well thank you, Senator. That is right. This is a 
challenge where you are going to be facing rising costs year 
over year. I think a lot of people think of home ownership as a 
way to lock in their housing costs. You take out a fixed rate 
mortgage. You have a predictable payment that you are going to 
be able to deal with each year, and changes in homeowners 
insurance is undermining that predictability.
    And so now you have this additional uncertainty into what 
your actual outlays are going to be to live in that home, and 
that is going to be really challenging.
    Senator Kaine. So there is an additional--there is an 
additional cost in the short term, and then a probable decline 
in the wealth and the value you get out of the asset in the 
long term. Let me switch to asking about storms. We are working 
on a supplemental bill today, to deal with natural emergencies.
    Actually, the bill is now what I would call a real disaster 
supplemental. A lot of it is about the natural disaster, 
Hurricane Helene and others. But some of it is about a 
predicted man-made disaster, namely if tariffs are put in 
place, people will get hit so badly that we have had to put 
money into the disaster bill to compensate for the predictable 
man-made disaster of a Trump tariff policy, which I think is 
interesting.
    So this disaster bill has grown in scope to encompass both 
natural and man-made disasters. But look. Hurricane Helene in 
particular hit southwest Virginia, Appalachian Virginia very 
hard. And I have been there to see the damage to homes, to 
businesses, to national parks and forests which kind of drive 
economic activity, to infrastructure like roads washed out.
    And what we are seeing in Appalachia, I just looked at some 
of the data Mr. Chair, is we are seeing some of the highest 
non-renewal rates. We certainly see them in coastal Virginia. 
We are starting to also see them in Appalachian Virginia, 
because even if annualized rainfall is not changing that much, 
we are seeing rainfall and storms come much more episodically 
and unpredictably.
    And the infrastructure that has been built based on kind of 
norms and averages in these hollows, whether they be roads or 
schools or homes, they are not an infrastructure that can 
withstand abnormal weather patterns. And so we are seeing 
significant effects, and then that is also, at least there 
appears to be some correlation.
    I do not know that I know enough about the report yet to 
talk about causation, but we are starting to see non-renewal 
rates tick up in Appalachia as well. So I appreciate the work 
that the Committee has done to surface this non-renewal issue. 
I do think this is an area where we are seeing it. Sure, we are 
seeing it in Florida and California, and I recognize that they 
have had some challenges that are severe on the climate side.
    We are starting to see it in Rhode Island, we are starting 
to see it in Virginia, including in places in Virginia where we 
would not have predicted ten years ago. I appreciate the 
Committee for holding this hearing.
    Chairman Whitehouse. Thanks, Senator Kaine. Senator Lujan.

                   STATEMENT OF SENATOR LUJAN

    Senator Lujan. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much and thank 
you for holding this important hearing. Mr. Chairman, I also 
want to thank you for the work that this Committee has done 
throughout this Congress, which has been abundantly clear, 
about the concern that families all across the country are 
faced with.
    And as we have seen with these most recent natural 
disasters, our brothers and sisters throughout the United 
States that live in some of the most rural areas, folks that 
still do not have running water. It is actually devastating 
that we are seeing as a result of higher temperatures, drier 
conditions in the Mountain West, the West with these wildfires, 
the intensity of hurricanes.
    In the end, this is all impacting the cost of living for 
people all across America, which brings me to this hearing, Mr. 
Chairman. The climate risks like natural disasters have created 
a homeowners insurance crisis as well, and with it, real pain 
and anxiety for communities and states like mine.
    We know that the climate crisis is driving higher insurance 
premiums and non-renewal rates, leaving entire regions 
vulnerable when another disaster strikes. And based on data 
collected during this Committee's investigation, it is the 
communities that are most vulnerable to these risks that need 
protective insurance policies the most.
    What we are seeing in New Mexico and most parts of the 
country is rural areas experiencing the highest increases in 
premiums and non-renewals.
    In New Mexico, more extreme and frequent wildfires push 
insurers to refuse renewing or approving policies in aeras at 
high fire risk. It happened after the Hermit's Peak/Calf Canyon 
fires in 2022, a fire by the way that was started by the 
federal government, a prescribed burn that was never put out, 
that resulted in the state's largest fire in our history.
    It happened after the South Fork and Salt fires in Ruidoso 
earlier this year, and I am fearful that it will happen again. 
So Dr. Keys, yes or no, does refusing to renew home insurance 
plans after a natural disaster add to the challenges of the 
recovery process?
    Dr. Keys. Yes, and if insurers are exiting the market in 
the aftermath of the disaster, that is going to leave fewer 
options for homeowners as they seek to rebuild and reestablish 
the community.
    Senator Lujan. The Ruidoso fires this year destroyed or 
badly damaged more than 1,100 homes, but only around ten 
percent had adequate insurances according to estimates. As 
climate impacts worsen, that number will fall even further. For 
those that want to rebuild their lost homes, the question now 
is where? What options do families have if companies refuse to 
insure their property or choose to cancel their insurance plans 
years later? The questions that my colleague from Virgina, Mr. 
Kaine was asking clearly articulate that.
    Now to many in my state, picking up and moving elsewhere is 
not just financially difficult, these are families that have 
been there for generations, lands that have been held in the 
family for centuries. And because someone somewhere with some 
methodology, some actuarial says no, cannot build there. We are 
not going to insure you there.
    I have a real problem with this. This is a pocketbook 
issue. Now Dr. Keys, yes or no, for those homeowners lucky 
enough to have their insurance policies renewed, does 
skyrocketing home insurance premiums make it more difficult to 
families to recover from natural disasters?
    Dr. Keys. Thank you, Senator. It makes it much more 
difficult to recovery from a household budget standpoint if 
they are now spending a significantly larger amount of their 
annual income towards homeowners insurance.
    Senator Lujan. I appreciate that response, and Mr. 
Chairman, I appreciate all the conversations in the hearing 
today, but you have clearly demonstrated is this is a 
pocketbook issue. This is something we should all be talking 
about more. This should not be partisan.
    Families in states that are represented by Republican 
members of this body or Democratic members of this body that 
voted for the incoming President or the current President, 
everyone is getting hit with this. And I cannot thank you 
enough for having this conversation, and especially what the 
people that I am fortunate to represent have been going through 
back home.
    This is not right. So whether it is through this body or 
state by state with Superintendents of Insurance, someone has 
got to do better. And we have got to make sure that we keep 
families at the center of all of these decisions, and 
understanding what is happening to them when they get kicked in 
the face with these pocketbook issues that are just getting 
worse and worse.
    So thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate all of 
you experts for being here today.
    Chairman Whitehouse. I believe Senator Merkley is trying to 
get here. So I will take just a moment of Chairman time.
    I can recall driving along the Gulf coast on some of my 
climate travels to red states, and as Mr. Shaghalian will know, 
when a property is up for sale, there is a sign out front that 
hangs the name of the real estate company that is selling the 
property, and then underneath that there is another little sign 
that gives you the name of the individual realtor in the real 
estate company who is the person to contact if you are 
interested in buying the home.
    And what I saw over and over again was that underneath that 
plaque with the individual realtor's name, was another little 
plaque that said what the height above sea level was of the 
property.
    That was such important information along that Gulf coast 
that they were literally hanging it off the real estate sign of 
the properties that were for sale, because if it is a--if it is 
low, then that means the flood risk is huge and the person 
driving by is just going to keep on driving. But if it has got 
enough altitude above sea level well, maybe they will be 
interested.
    The other thing that I wanted to say in response to the 
testimony about the litigation problem. I am not an expert like 
the panel, but I am not a rookie either. I ran the Rhode Island 
Attorney General's Office Regulatory Unit, which included 
insurance rate cases.
    I was the insurance regulator for the state of Rhode 
Island. I came back as attorney general and oversaw the 
insurance rate work of the Attorney General's Office. I helped 
lead our rebuild from an epic insurance failure, the Rhode 
Island Share and Deposit Indemnity Corporation (RISDIC) 
failure, a deposit insurance failure, which Mr. Shaghalian will 
remember, and I was the architect, I guess I would say, 
orchestrator of the workers' comp insurance reform that we had, 
which has worked after we had a workers' comp failure, in which 
every single insurer left the state, announced their departure.
    So what is happening in Florida has some resonance for me. 
But I have also been around this conversation in which the 
insurance industry blames things on litigation, and I just want 
to offer my own experience in this regard. Which is that 
litigation goes up when insureds are getting screwed. If you do 
not want a lot of litigation, pay claims fully and promptly, 
and that really helps solve the problem.
    If you look at Florida, we are seeing Citizens Property 
Insurance reporting 70 percent claims denial for individual 
storms. 70 percent of claims filed with that insurer are just 
denied. You have got a hell of a fraud epidemic if you are 
telling me that 70 percent of Floridians are fraudsters, and 
that their claims should be summarily denied.
    When your claim is just auto-denied, and by the way there 
is some logic to this. When claims are denied, it puts people 
under more and more pressure. They may not be able to stay in 
their houses if they are not livable.
    They may move someplace else, to a cousin out of state, and 
at that point fighting with the insurance company really does 
not make any sense any longer. You just wash your hands. You do 
not pursue the claim.
    Dr. Hartwig. Can I just say something----
    Chairman Whitehouse. No, you may not interrupt me, and the 
problem defaults to the bank that owns the mortgage. They now 
own the ruined property.
    So there is some real logic, unfortunate logic but real 
logic to running up your claims denial rates. We have also seen 
long delays in payment, you know. Ultimately, you may get paid, 
but if you cannot live in the house, if you cannot fix it in 
time, if mold grows, we saw it in Katrina. People moved to 
Texas to get away from the disaster, and they got resettled. 
They found a new job. They did not want to come back and the 
claims just languished.
    We saw 60 Minutes go through the insurance adjusters of 
Florida, relating stories about how they would go--they are 
independent insurance adjusters. They would go to the insured's 
home. They would look around and they would say ``Okay, here is 
the damage. Here is how much it should cost,'' and then the 
insurance company would rewrite the adjuster's report and just 
remove stuff.
    Well, if you are the insured and it is your home and you 
know from your adjuster what he told the insurance company, 
then the insurance company comes back and says, you know, you 
get 20,000 on a $200,000 adjuster. What are you going to get? 
You are going to get litigation.
    So there are two sides to this story. I have been hearing 
this for as long as I have been around insurance.
    The insurance industry loves to blame litigation, but a 
great deal of the litigation has to do with the way the 
insurance industry treats its customers.
    And that is the experience that I have had. Mr. Hartwig has 
expertise in this area. He has the view that he expressed, that 
it is actually the litigation that is driving the insurance 
costs.
    I just wanted to offer back my experience, having been 
through this argument for decades now, that there is a very 
strong counter-narrative about that, which is that if you want 
less litigation, pay the damn claims. Be solvent, pay the 
claims, pay them quickly, pay them fully and then the 
litigation abates. So that is my experience. You wanted to say 
something, Mr. Hartwig?
    Dr. Hartwig. Yes. Thank you very much. So I would say that 
Florida did have a hell of a fraud problem----
    Chairman Whitehouse. 70 percent? 70 percent of Floridians 
are fraudsters? Is that what you are telling us?
    Dr. Hartwig. I do not think anybody is saying that. But 
what we are saying----
    Chairman Whitehouse. Well, it is the thing you deduce if 
you look at a 70 percent claims denial rate for a storm, is it 
not?
    (Simultaneous discussion.)
    Chairman Whitehouse. You are saying that they are 
fraudsters.
    Dr. Hartwig. There is three percent. Three percent is the 
non-renewal rate in that state, and so--and let me speak to 
some of these other things. And so for instance in a prior 
role, when I ran the Insurance Information Institute, and was 
its chief economist, in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, 1.75 
million claims, largest ever and even to this day it is a 
record.
    We did do a study at six months and one year, and found 
that approximately one percent of those claims were in dispute. 
By that, I mean they were not fully settled within about six 
months, and it was about a half of one percent after one year. 
This is after the largest claiming event ever in United States 
history. So my experience is that, and even my personal 
experience, having my first ever homeowners insurance claim 
with Helene a couple of months ago, is that the claims are 
settled fairly and expeditiously, and there are fair claims 
handling in all 50 states----
    (Simultaneous discussion.)
    Chairman Whitehouse. I am not disputing that from time to 
time, the insurance industry--in fact perhaps even most of the 
time, they pay their claims expeditiously. Rhode Island is the 
home of Amica. They're legendary for their good payments and 
quick behavior.
    But where litigation is the issue, I contend that there is 
a case to be made that very often, the litigation is the 
product of the behavior of the insurers, and when you have got 
70 percent claim rates, when you have got documented cases of 
adjuster's reports being whittled away by the insurance 
company, I mean that is what you then get.
    You create a litigation environment that you can then blame 
for your problems. So we are going to disagree. I am going to 
call this hearing to an end. I wanted to make sure that both 
sides were reflected. You have made your statement, I have made 
mine. People can make their own determinations about it.
    I want to thank all of you for appearing before the 
Committee today. Each of your full written statements will be 
included in the record. If there are questions for the record, 
please get them into us by noon tomorrow, any Members who are 
interested in that, and we will ask the witnesses if you do get 
questions for the record, to respond within seven days of when 
we get them to you.
    And I will make a final statement, which is that 42 
hearings in the Budget Committee is quite a lot. 21 of them 
took on or 22 of them I guess now, took on a really challenging 
issue that required a lot of work and required bringing in 
really renowned expert witnesses.
    And I particularly just want to thank my staff director and 
his team for the enormous amount of work that went into 
building that body of evidence, which I think has helped people 
understand that the climate crisis that is coming our way is 
not just about polar bears and it is not just about green jobs.
    It actually is coming through your mail slot in the form of 
insurance cancellations, insurance non-renewals and dramatic 
increases in insurance costs, sometimes tripling or 
quadrupling.
    So with much appreciation to the team that helped this 
happen, again my thanks to the witness and particularly to Mr. 
Shaghalian for his trip down from Rhode Island. He is a leader 
in our Rhode Island community, and a wonderful guy. So glad to 
have you here, sir. And with that, for the last time we are 
adjourned. (Whereupon, at 11:22 a.m., Wednesday, December 18, 
2024, the hearing was adjourned.)

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