[Senate Hearing 118-526]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 118-526
SMALL BUSINESS AND THE CLEAN ENERGY
ECONOMY: LOWERING COSTS AND
INCREASING RESILIENCE
=======================================================================
FIELD HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP
OF THE
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
SEPTEMBER 13, 2024
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Small Business and
Entrepreneurship
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
57-903 WASHINGTON : 2025
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COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
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JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire, Chair
JONI ERNST, Iowa, Ranking Member
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington MARCO RUBIO, Florida
BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts RAND PAUL, Kentucky
CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware TODD YOUNG, Indiana
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado TED BUDD, North Carolina
Sean Moore, Democratic Staff Director
Meredith West, Republican Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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SEPTEMBER 13, 2024
Page
WITNESSES
Ms. Sarah Waring, State Director, Vermont and New Hampshire USDA,
Rural Development, Montpelier, VT.............................. 4
Prepared Statement........................................... 7
Mr. Sam Evans-Brown, Executive Director, Clean Energy NH,
Concord, NH.................................................... 10
Prepared Statement........................................... 12
Mr. Dan Weeks, Vice President, Business Development, ReVision
Energy, Nashua, NH............................................. 19
Prepared Statement........................................... 22
Ms. Melissa Florio, President, Ambix Manufacturing, Freedom, NH.. 32
Prepared Statement........................................... 35
ADDITIONAL LETTERS/STATEMENTS FOR THE RECORD
Ranking Member Joni Ernst
Statement dated September 13, 2024........................... 47
Rebecca Perkins Kwoka, New Hampshire State Senator
Statement dated September 12, 2024........................... 49
SMALL BUSINESS AND THE CLEAN ENERGY ECONOMY: LOWERING COSTS AND
INCREASING RESILIENCE
----------
FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 13, 2024
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Small Business
and Entrepreneurship,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:36 a.m., in
University of New Hampshire at Manchester, Pandora Mill
Building, Room 201, 88 Commercial Street, Manchester, NH 03101,
Hon. Jeanne Shaheen, chairman of the committee, presiding.
Present: Senator Shaheen [presiding].
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR SHAHEEN
The Chairman. Good morning. I am Jeanne Shaheen. I am
currently the chair of the Small Business and Entrepreneurship
Committee in the Senate.
And I am so excited to be able to be doing this hearing in
New Hampshire with a number of our small business owners in New
Hampshire who have worked on energy issues, as well as with
some Government folks who are here to talk about what is
available for resources for small businesses.
So, thank you all for joining us. I will officially open
the hearing as soon as we hear from Dean Decelle who heads UNH
Manchester, and we are so delighted to have you host this
morning.
Mr. Decelle. Thank you, Senator.
[Technical problems.]
Mr. Decelle. For those of you who have not been here
before, this is the University of New Hampshire's urban campus.
We are home to about 1,000 graduate and undergraduate students
here on campus. We have been here in the Millyard, this
building in particular, since 2015. It is part of the
university's commitment to support of students that want to
attend their college education closer to home.
We are in general a commuter school that serves students
that have complicated life stories. They work, they have
families. And so we occupy, we think, a special space in the
higher education infrastructure here. We also consider
ourselves a gathering space. So we support K through 12 student
outreach programs. We also, at the other end of the spectrum,
deploy continuing education programs for adult learners. So we
have a New Hampshire extension office here.
We also have the Osher Lifelong Learning Institute. We
really see a spectrum of learners not limited to college
learners. So this kind of conversation is something that we
really are proud to support.
This conversation in particular holds a special spot for
me. Before being here in higher ed, I spent several years
running a renewable energy company down in Cambridge,
Massachusetts. So this--there's more. [Laughter.]
Mr. Decelle. So I hope you have a great conversation. I am
looking forward to listening in to it as well. And enjoy your
morning. Thanks. [Laughter.]
The Chairman. The Senate Committee on Small Business and
Entrepreneurship will come to order. It is really an honor to
be here today, and we very much appreciate Dean Decelle's
remarks and hosting us this morning.
I want to welcome our witnesses who I will introduce
officially in a few minutes, but I want to introduce some of
the folks who are making this hearing possible this morning.
And I think some of you have attended other small business
hearings that we have held in New Hampshire, but for those of
you who haven't, this is just like a hearing in Washington, DC.
We have the staff from the committee who have come up to
make sure that we take notes, that everything is conducted
properly. All of the testimony will go into the committee's
record and will be shared with the other members of the
committee. And so, anything that is done here will be done just
as if we were in Washington, DC.
So with that in mind, let me introduce some of the people
from the committee who are making this possible. And you will
see how many people it takes to do some of this. First, I want
to introduce Sean Moore, who is the staff director for the
committee. He works for the majority because we are divided
into majority and minority on the committee as we are on all
committees.
Sujin Kim, who is with the majority staff. Sebastian Rojas,
who is also with the majority staff. Kathryn Eden, who is the
chief clerk. Kathryn, there you are. And then from the minority
staff, we have Meredith West, who is the minority staff
director. Thanks for joining us. And Corey Cooke, who is also
with the minority staff, who actually went to UNH law, right?
So, it's nice to have all of you here.
Thank you, and particularly nice for them to be here in New
Hampshire at this time of year, right. I also want to introduce
some of the folks from my personal staff who it is important, I
think, for all of you to know. Tina Kasim works with small
business issues with the staff. She is in the back of the room.
Elizabeth McKenna, who is on my energy staff, is here.
Raise your hand so everybody knows how to find you at the end
of this hearing. Jen Hughes is doing communications, so she
will be taking pictures if you see her with the camera. John
Jarvis is the head of operations for our offices, in the back.
And Will Garrity Binger is here from Washington. He does
small business issues on the Washington staff. And Janelle
DiLuccia does energy issues on the Washington staff. She is
also here. And Robin Hwang, who I think is here someplace.
Where is he? Okay, good. He is signing people in.
So any of them, feel free if you have questions or there is
something that you think our office could help with, please
contact us and let us know. Now, to get back to the official
remarks. Today, we are going to discuss an issue that I think
is of real importance to small business. It is important to all
of us but small businesses because they are on the cutting edge
and often it is more of a concern for them.
We are going to talk about energy efficiency and reducing
energy costs for small businesses. It is an issue that I have
been very interested in since before I was Governor.
Particularly energy efficiency, because I think efficiency is
the cheapest, fastest way to deal with our energy needs.
And now, as the drivers of our economy, small businesses
feel the squeeze of increasing costs first. They are especially
vulnerable to market volatility. And as we saw after Russia
invaded Ukraine in 2022, it is a particular challenge.
In 2021, Congress passed what we call the bipartisan
infrastructure law that really invests in clean energy in a way
that we had not to the same extent in the past. It includes a
robust energy workforce and a cleaner, more reliable electric
grid.
And there are key provisions in that legislation that I
worked on with Rob Portman, who was then a Senator from Ohio.
He and I had worked on that legislation for a decade. When we
negotiated the bipartisan infrastructure law, we were able to
get many of the provisions in there to address energy
efficiency, to address electric vehicle infrastructure, to help
us revitalize brownfield sites, and ultimately, hopefully
create more good paying jobs in our communities.
A year later, Congress passed the most significant climate
legislation in history, which is designed to dramatically
reduce greenhouse gas emissions and invest in clean energy
generation. That act invests nearly $370 billion in clean
energy through expanded tax credits and funding for programs
like the Rural Energy for America Program.
And we have a number of folks here who we are going to talk
about a little later who can help put people in touch with some
of those resources that are available. But the programs are
aimed directly at small businesses and at farms in States like
New Hampshire, where we have a big rural part of our economy.
Clean and efficient energy benefits everyone across all
parts of New Hampshire, and for small businesses, it can slash
energy bills while keeping up profits and keeping our
communities vibrant. It also helps insulate small businesses
from increasing costs. And what we are seeing more and more is
severe weather from climate change. We see that here in New
Hampshire. We see it around the world.
They are beginning to affect energy prices everywhere. And
again, small businesses are the first to be affected by some of
those higher energy prices. That's why it is so important to
make sure that our small businesses can access the resources
that are available to help with affordable, clean energy.
There are a lot of tools and opportunities that are
available to our small businesses to cut costs and transition
to clean energy. And following today's hearing, we will have
representatives from several federally supported agencies and
State, we have a number of State organizations with us as well,
who we are going to talk about what is available to small
businesses.
They are here to try and answer your questions and to be
helpful. So, thank you again to our witnesses for joining us
and for your testimony today and for being part of this
discussion. And now I will begin and introduce each of our
witnesses. First, Sarah Waring, who is on the far right, is the
State Director for Vermont and New Hampshire at the United
States Department of Agriculture Rural Development, or USDA RD.
I am sure that all of you get very frustrated with some of
the acronyms, so I will try not to use them. But in her role,
Ms. Waring administers a number of key rural development
programs, including the highly successful Rural Energy for
America Program, or REA. We are so delighted that you are here
with us, Sarah, and looking forward to hearing your testimony.
Next to Sarah is Sam Evans-Brown, who is the Executive
Director at Clean Energy New Hampshire. It is an advocacy
organization that is working to move the State toward a cleaner
and more resilient energy future. Clean Energy New Hampshire
also provides technical assistance to small businesses on how
to transition to clean energy and lower their energy costs.
Mr. Evans-Brown grew up in the Lakes region of the Granite
State, and he spent over 10 years as a podcast host and radio
journalist with New Hampshire Public Radio before joining Clean
Energy New Hampshire. So you should be able to know how to get
the word out about this.
Next to Sam is Dan Weeks, who is Vice President of Business
Development at ReVision Energy. ReVision is an employee owned,
Certified B Corp solar installation company. They work directly
with small firms to help them secure funding for their clean
energy transition and complete their solar installations.
Mr. Weeks is a 12th generation Granite Stater. That has got
to be close to a record setting, Dan. And he has over seven
years of experience at ReVision, leading and working with
commercial and institutional partners to accelerate the clean
energy transition.
And finally is Melissa Florio, who is President of Ambix
Manufacturing. It is a small business in the White Mountains
who provides plastic engineering and custom contact injection
molding manufacturing. And I am sure she will explain it much
better than I when we get to her testimony.
She also serves on the Small Business Administration's
Office of the National Ombudsman Regulatory Fairness Board for
Region One, a very important role. So again, thank you all for
being here, and I will ask Sarah to begin.
STATEMENT OF SARAH WARING, STATE DIRECTOR, VERMONT AND NEW
HAMPSHIRE, USDA RURAL DEVELOPMENT, MONTPELIER, VERMONT
Ms. Waring. Chairwoman Shaheen, and for the entire Senate
Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship, it is an
honor to be here today and to provide testimony on this really
important issue for New Hampshire businesses and for rural
America, lowering energy costs and putting money back in the
pockets of our entrepreneurs. It is a crucial discussion, and I
am honored to be a part of the hearing.
My name is Sarah Waring. I am the Rural Development State
Director for New Hampshire, the Granite State, and Vermont, the
Green Mountain State. And first, I would like to offer my
heartfelt condolences to the communities in Grafton and Coos
County, who are still struggling to recover from flooding
events this summer, and for our farmers and producers who are
managing the impacts of last year's devastating May frost.
For as long as it takes, the Biden-Harris Administration
and USDA Rural Development and our sister agencies will deploy
every resource we have to be able to help rebuild and recover
in New Hampshire.
As I mentioned, our jurisdiction covers two States, and
both of those States are pretty rural. So 70 percent of New
Hampshire residents and 90 percent of Vermonters live in
communities with fewer than 5,000 people. Both States have
heavily weighted employment percentages towards educational
services, health care, and social services, which is why small
business development is so important in our region.
According to the SBA, there are over 130,000 small
businesses operating in New Hampshire as of last year, and that
employs about 49 percent of our State's workforce. Today, I
will focus on one of our flagship programs that lowers costs
for those small businesses, but I want to first take a moment
to tell you a little bit about how our agency injects money
directly into rural communities through housing, infrastructure
development, and business support.
We have over 70 grant and loan programs and products
available that we offer nationwide. Over the last five years,
we have invested roughly $1.3 billion in the Twin States, and
that translates to more than 3,400 families with safe housing,
570 businesses supported and lowering their costs, and 260
community institutions, from town halls and transfer stations
to high schools and hospitals that have been built or
modernized.
Today, my focus is on the rural Energy for America or REAP
program. The Biden-Harris Administration's historic and
bipartisan Inflation Reduction Act saw significant changes to
that program that has created an incredible response from our
customers. REAP offers two pathways to funding, one for
renewable energy projects and the others for energy efficiency
projects. Under the Inflation Reduction Act, these program
elements doubled.
The grant match went from just 25 percent of total project
cost to 50 percent, and the dollar amounts went from $250,000
for an energy efficiency project, to $500,000, or $500,000 to
$1 million for renewable energy projects. Since the beginning
of the Biden-Harris Administration, USDA Rural Development has
invested in 7,566 REAP projects in America for a total of $2.2
billion across the country.
And on average, the projects lower energy costs for
businesses and recipients by about $25,000 annually, and they
create enough clean energy to power 630,000 households each
year. I want to share just two stories from New Hampshire. A
Place to Grow is a nature based childcare, founded and
franchised in Brentwood by Jen Legere. In 2018, she applied for
two small REAP grants, one to weatherize her building and one
for installing solar.
With these combined projects, she saved her childcare
business around $6,000 a year. Another good example is the
Candia First Stoppe, which is a unique country store, gas
station, truck stop, restaurant, and event space where co-
owners Joe Sobol and Craig St. Peter jumped at the chance for
nearly $838,000 grant in late 2023, which will install a 561.6
kilowatt solar array. This system will translate to more than
$133,000 in annual savings for their business.
So whether the projects are large or small, they are
ultimately making a big difference on the bottom line for our
small businesses. I also want to celebrate our technical
assistance partners, the New Hampshire Community Development
Finance Authority, who is here today, Clean Energy New
Hampshire, who is here today, have worked alongside Rural
Development for years, supporting businesses and communities
alike to navigate Federal funding.
Now, the Energy Circuit Rider Program, which Sam will talk
more about, has been significantly expanded through Inflation
Reduction Act, REAP technical assistance grants, where they
work hand in hand with businesses to gain access to our
funding. However, our supply has not met the demand, and the
numbers tell the story.
In New Hampshire, we received 26 applications in 2022, 54
applications in 2023, and as of today, 84 applications in 2024.
New Hampshire customers alone this year are requesting $21
million of energy improvements and renewable energy projects.
When we include our Vermont applications, the demand has jumped
100 percent in 2023 and now an additional 68 percent in '24.
Furthermore, REAP is one of dozens of other business,
housing, and utility programs that our agency offers that can
address energy costs and energy transition. Accommodating and
adapting to our increased portfolio, both in number of programs
as well as changes in those program funding levels, has been
incredibly difficult for our small staff.
In closing today, my key points are this, our programs are
effective in driving down costs for small businesses. Your
work, Senator, getting the Inflation Reduction Act passed has
been transformational, and the Biden-Harris Administration has
mobilized our agency to act on that transformation.
Our staff work incredibly well, but only as far as the
capacity we have to process applications. And our partners on
the ground offering technical assistance are crucial resources
for our small business owners and farmers.
I want to thank you for the time today and we look forward
to continuing to work with you and your staff for the State of
New Hampshire.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Waring follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you very much for your testimony. Sam.
STATEMENT OF SAM EVANS-BROWN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CLEAN ENERGY
NEW HAMPSHIRE, CONCORD, NEW HAMPSHIRE
Mr. Evans-Brown. Thank you, Chairwoman Shaheen, for
inviting me. It truly is an honor. I will confess, I don't
think I even realized how much of a big deal this was until I
arrived here today. So I really appreciate everyone for bearing
with me as this is certainly my first time sitting up in a
chair like this.
Clean Energy New Hampshire is, as you have just heard, a
recipient of the REAP technical assistance grant. If you have
not spoken to them already, Gabe and Katherine, Gabe Chelius
and Katherine Cusack are there on the right. They are the real
experts in this program, and I encourage anyone who is
interested to read the written testimony that they were
extremely helpful in preparing that has more details in terms
of what we have to say about the programs.
I think I will take a moment here just to talk about what
we think is needed to really move the needle towards a clean
energy future, which is an easy button. I think small
businesses, as well as regular folks, and municipal governments
need an easy button in order to figure out how to pursue these
types of projects and one simply does not exist.
If you have a fossil fuel fired boiler in your building and
it fails, the easy button is you call a contractor and that
contractor replaces a like with like on an emergency basis, and
that is overwhelmingly what happens out in the world.
And if you want to pursue one of the types of projects that
we assist communities and small businesses with, you are in for
a quite a journey. So when I started in 2021, we had Melissa
Elander, who was our first energy circuit writer.
She had been--her position had been created in a
partnership with the New Hampshire Charitable Foundation after
an extensive process where the question was asked, why is it
that communities do not pursue energy efficiency investments if
these investments pay for themselves? And the answer was, it is
complicated.
The funding landscape is confusing, and it is not easy to
figure this out. And so, Melissa's position was created in an
attempt to be the easy button for low income, rural communities
in Northern New Hampshire. I benefited from all of that work.
And when I started at Clean Energy New Hampshire,
overwhelmingly what I heard was we need more people like
Melissa out in communities, and that is what we are endeavoring
to do at Clean Energy New Hampshire.
The Energy Circuit Rider team now has seven employees. We
have four employees who are helping drive municipal projects,
and Gabe and Katherine who are helping with small businesses.
So we are attempting to build that easy button, and we do so in
partnership with all of our--all of the other actors in this
space.
So great companies like Provision Energy, like the Energy
Efficiency Contractors who are experts in the New Hampshire
Saves programs, like CDFA who know how to work on community
facilities, as well as many lenders and other providers of
services in this space. That said, it is still not easy.
What I have heard in talking to Gabe and Katherine that--
was that the problems can be as prosaic as sitting down next to
a small business owner and walking them through the same.gov
website as they try to get themselves a Federal funding code,
which is not a process that is as easy as you would like it to
be, and that by itself can be a barrier to pursuing a grant
that can make or break the economics of a project that you are
hoping to pursue.
And it is not the only hurdle. Each of these programs is
subject to their own somewhat arcane cost-benefits test and
understanding the types of measures that are likely to be
successful or to be funded through the various programs really
requires an expert in order to know in advance if you are going
to be successful.
And to drill down on that, I too consider myself an expert
in these programs, but it was not until crafting the written
testimony that I submitted that I really understood at a
slightly more granular level how complicated it really is, and
it was really Gabe and Katherine who have been doing this now
for a year with small businesses who informed me the types of
measures that are likely to be funded by the various funding
streams.
So New Hampshire Saves, good for refrigeration and lighting
and motors, not great for weatherization. REAP-TAG, sometimes
you struggle to have an efficiency project get funding through
REAP-TAG because of the way the payback period is calculated in
REAP-TAG.
REAP unfortunately does not take into account the actual
rate structure that small businesses pay where they are subject
to a demand charge. So any benefits in reducing a demand charge
are not considered in the payback period calculation. And all
of these are impediments to getting projects done that I think
that we need to think really hard about how we get over them.
That said, these funding sources are crucial. They are
absolutely crucial. And there are many businesses that would
not be considering pursuing any project other than replacing
like with like if it were not for these funding streams.
And so, I encourage the Senate to think really hard about
how to streamline the delivery of these funding streams, but
also how we defend them into--going forward into the future
until we find ourselves in a place where the market has
transformed to such a degree that the easy button is being
delivered by private services, which I think is where we all
hope we'll wind up. With that, I will cease.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Evans-Brown follows:]
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The Chairman. Thank you very much. Dan.
STATEMENT OF DAN WEEKS, VICE PRESIDENT, BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT,
REVISION ENERGY, NASHUA, NEW HAMPSHIRE
Mr. Weeks. Good morning. Thank you so much, Chairwoman
Shaheen. Dan Weeks with ReVision Energy and it is an honor to
be here. Also my first rodeo alongside Sarah, Sam, and Melissa.
I am one of the co-owners at ReVision Energy, and while I
enjoy--get to enjoy sitting here in a nice air conditioned
room, I definitely want to tip my hat to my co-owners who are
out on rooftops today.
It is a perfect fall day, although it I think it will reach
up into the 80s. Not our usual back when I was a kid at least
in September, and they are out there in all weather, all days
of the year installing the clean energy future that is core to
our mission, which is to make life better by building our just
and equitable electric future.
ReVision is honored to work with and the team that I lead
in our commercial business is honored to work with dozens at
any given time of small businesses and independent businesses
around New Hampshire, and we are proud ourselves to be a small,
independent, and employee owned business with offices just up
the highway in Brentwood, as well as in the Upper Valley.
As has been stated already, New Hampshire businesses do
face significant costs, both in terms of direct costs from
electricity and other energy needs, and increasingly as we are
coming to realize the indirect costs of climate damage.
I am glad that Sarah mentioned the floods that have been so
severe most recently in the North country, in New Hampshire,
where my family comes from, and driving those streets just this
past summer has been a stark reminder not just of the costs
that towns bear in terms of infrastructure damage as roads and
bridges wash out, but also businesses that are getting flooded
and having to deal with these ever rising energy inputs.
I wanted to keep with the theme that Sam mentioned, and I
will let my more detailed testimony speak for itself, but to
draw a couple of key themes, and in particularly the challenges
to implementation of what are proven commercialized
technologies at this point, particularly when it comes to a
category of--and I will focus on solar technology, although we
also do energy storage, and EV charging, and thermal solutions.
But particularly in the case of solar energy when it comes
to shared community solar projects or off site projects, which
frankly are often the only way that small, very small
businesses, as well as families can benefit from the clean
energy transition because many of them, many of those 130,000
small businesses registered in the State of New Hampshire,
don't own their own facilities and don't have an opportunity to
install on-site. But first, a word on what is available to
small businesses today.
Thanks in large part to the Inflation Reduction Act and
other Federal incentives for small businesses that do own their
roof and have a solar suitable facility, because of the 43
percent decline in the cost of solar technology over the last
10 years, because of the continuation of Federal incentives,
which were supposed to be just a 10 percent tax credit here in
2024.
But thanks to the Inflation Reduction Act were returned to
their historic level of 30 percent with the opportunity for
bonus tax credits in certain cases, the combination of
increasing efficiency, lowering cost of the technology, and
continued and enhanced Federal incentives does mean that if a
small business in New Hampshire owns their roof, chances are
they can offset most or all of their energy needs and they can
do so at a very reasonable return on investment, typically
about a 10 year payback, sometimes as low as 7 years, with an
internal rate of return somewhere north of 10 percent very
often, which is better than the stock market most years.
And by doing so, as we already heard from Sarah, they can
save $16,000 a year or more, depending on what their current
energy spend is. It is a tremendous opportunity, and we have
been blessed to work with over 1,000 small businesses and other
commercial customers, along with nearly 20,000 residential
customers over the last 21 years.
So for onsite applications, the technology has proven the
permitting and interconnection are generally manageable, and
the savings are very real. However, as noted, most New
Hampshire small businesses just don't have the opportunity to
install on their own facility, and they look to, and we hear
from them very often wanting to find some way to participate in
the energy transition.
The natural solution, which our company by virtue of
operating in neighboring States as well as New Hampshire, has
been able to put in place over the last 10 plus years is
community or shared solar farms.
And I want to briefly mention three key challenges that I
think the Federal Government can help to overcome, although
they are in particular challenges we face at the local and
State level, that are unfortunately impeding the development of
offsite community solar farms in New Hampshire, even as other
States are many years ahead.
The first set of challenges relates to net metering, which
is a State level policy. But to put it in practical terms, the
retail cost of electricity, if you take the average rate over
the last three years, for small businesses in New Hampshire is
about $0.18 per kilowatt hour. If you are offsetting your power
needs on site, you are getting close to that for retail rate.
However, if you are getting your energy from a shared
community solar project by virtue of New Hampshire's net
metering statute, you are getting just 10.4 cents today. Not
only is that a little more than half of the total rate, the
retail rate, it is also about half of the empirical value of
solar, as New Hampshire's Department of Energy has determined
through value of distributed resources studies that they have
completed and is also about half of the rate in other States
where we are seeing community solar take off.
So net metering is a real challenge, and it is further made
more difficult by the fact that we have an arbitrary cap of 1
megawatt on the size of projects that can serve small
businesses or families or nonprofits in New Hampshire.
Economies of scale are terribly important in these projects.
A second hurdle is around permitting, and I mentioned
economies of scale because there are fixed costs that any
offsite project must bear. Typically at least $100,000 just in
obtaining State permits. For New Hampshire, the threshold for
requiring those permits is about 2 acres. In other States, it
is about 20 acres for that very high level of permitting
diligence that is required and that brings significant costs.
And then finally around interconnection, which I could
spend all day on, but historically, it has taken weeks or
months to obtain interconnection agreements, and those have
cost a few thousand dollars in initial studies.
Today, for especially offsite projects, it is taking
multiple years, and the cost of studies alone are generally
$25,000 to $50,000, with interconnection upgrades anywhere from
$100,000 to $1 million.
The Chairman. Dan, just explain very briefly what
interconnection--what you are talking about when you say
interconnection----
Mr. Weeks. Yes. Thank you, Senator.
The Chairman [continuing]. For those people who might not
know.
Mr. Weeks. So these projects are by default grid tied,
meaning that they are delivering their electrons directly to
the utility grid.
And the utilities, whose primary and very important job is
to maintain a reliable, resilient grid are often using that
opportunity, you might say, to contribute to other beneficial
upgrades.
So in New Hampshire, where we don't have any State
interconnection rules, they can require a number of upgrades
which are generally not required for comparable projects in
other States. Reclosers, other protective devices, which is
what brings the cost to $500,000, or $1 million, or more. So
those are three challenges.
And just to wrap up, as I noted, in spite of these
challenges, this is an exciting time in the renewable energy
industry in New Hampshire. About $180 million was invested in
just solar in New Hampshire last year. Our total installed
capacity, about 280 megawatts. Sam can correct me there.
Although that is--unfortunately pales in comparison to what
we see South of the border at over 5,000 megawatts of deployed
solar in more than 1,100 in Maine. So there is a lot of room to
grow. And the final note, I would say is while we have over
1,000 people working in the solar industry today in New
Hampshire, about 100 at ReVision, the potential to grow that is
enormous.
And one way in which ReVision has been focused on the
workforce challenge is about seven years ago, we established
the first in-house electrical apprenticeship program at a U.S.
solar company.
So far, we have graduated--in a couple of weeks we will
graduate I think our 60th or maybe 65th electricians here in
New Hampshire, which we are very proud of. And it is a program
that we are desperate to expand with support from Department of
Labor and others because we believe electricians will save the
world.
So, I will conclude in again tipping my hat to my
colleagues who are out on rooftops today getting the job done.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Weeks follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thanks very much, Dan. Melissa.
STATEMENT OF MELISSA FLORIO, PRESIDENT, AMBIX MANUFACTURING
FREEDOM, NEW HAMPSHIRE
Ms. Florio. Hello, everyone. Okay. So, first of all, thank
you, Madam Chairman, and all the members of the committee for
holding this hearing and allow me the opportunity to share with
you our journey to sustainability with regards to our reliance
on the electric grid.
I will try my best to explain plastics injection molding,
now that you have thrown that on me and please bear with me. I
have spent the last few days in D.C. As Senator Shaheen said,
one of my roles is as--Fairness Regulatory Board, and we just
had our annual meeting. It was only two days, but I felt like
two weeks.
We had so much squished into those two days. So Ambix
Manufacturing, we are one of the 33 million small businesses
here in the United States, and we were founded in 2008 up in
the White Mountains of New Hampshire. And we provide plastics
engineering and custom contract and plastics injection molding.
So if you imagine the olden days when you would play with
your Play-Doh and you would have your Play-Doh in your whatever
it might be, in your device and you would squeeze it and out
would come your shape, that is kind of in a nutshell what we
do. We would close loop injection molders that are all electric
machines, and we heat up our resin sometimes to 500 +F with a
lot of auxiliaries.
We color our resins on site and do all fancy things with
them. They get into a barrel through a feeder. They get--that
feeder screw barrel pushes them into our injection mold. The
water cools the mold, opens the mold, pops out the part. So
that is essentially what injection molding is for plastics and
there is all different types. There is extrusions. There is
ceramic. But we do plastic injection molding.
So we are an ISO 9000 certified company. We have
responsibility to stakeholders as ISO 9000 certified company.
We have to consider risks to Federal, State, local governments,
residents of our town, our customers, our employees, and ensure
that we are--always are providing, you know, a quality part and
continuing operations. So for every potential new job at Ambix,
we go through an assessment process.
Do we have the capabilities to do the job or are they
looking for extrusion? Are they looking for injection molding?
Do we have the capacity? Can we provide a quality product? And
most importantly, can we compete on cost? It is always costs.
We know the Ambix team can provide a high quality product.
Our Ambix team has been with us for years, some decades.
That is not our problem. It is the wildcard is always cost. And
in establishing Ambix, we were able to rely upon years of
manufacturing and engineering experience consulting around the
globe to take learned best practices and build our
manufacturing floor to the most efficient leading manufacturer
that we could be, minimizing waste.
However, you know, we can't eliminate all waste, and there
are some costs, but we were able to get ourselves at a level
where we could compete with domestic manufacturers. But as you
know, Ambix and other small businesses aren't competing just
with domestic manufacturers. We are competing on an
international level with manufacturers who are in countries
that are subsidized by their home country that allows them to
undercut us on our price points.
So over the years, we have picked off the low lying fruit,
as anyone would. We have brought in, you know--so let me just
kind of back up. So there are three main issues that we have is
labor, raw resin, and of course electricity because we run all
electric machines. And so in doing so, we added automation and
reduced that labor cost, right.
As far as our resin cost prices, we were able to reduce
only to a certain extent because we aren't that large domestic
manufacturers, so we don't have railcars of resin coming into
our backyard and going into silos. So there is not so much room
on the cost of resin that we have wiggle room, but there is
wiggle room with electricity.
So we did work with local, State, Federal programs, brought
people in, ask for recommendations on what we could do to
improve our facilities, and we implemented all of those,
whether it be energy efficient lighting or upgrading our HVAC
and machinery auxiliaries. So in doing so, however, we kept
coming against the fact that no matter what we did, that
electricity was always going to be a high aspect to our
production costs that we provide on a piece part price.
So we went and we actually researched numerous times with
ReVision Energy and looked at the possibility of what can we do
to offset those costs, and it was just never affordable for us.
It just was never going to be feasible. We don't sit on this
huge pile of cash. You know, I would love to--I would love to
sit on a huge pile of cash. We don't.
And when we do have any type of wiggle room, we usually
invest in our buildings, our machines, and our employees. So
every time we would do the analysis, we just would never make
that break-even point, if we had the cash flow, in order to
make it happen.
In 2022, around August, we--that all changed when our
electricity provider notified us that our electric rates were
going to be increasing 52 percent. And like I said, so our
three components, that third prong of electricity that was just
going to cripple us. We couldn't pass those costs on to our
customer. And so, we were really facing, how do we do this? How
do we--you know, we are going to go out of business.
And that wasn't an option for us because it wasn't just our
families that we, you know, are worried about at night. I stay
up at night worrying about my employees' families and their
lives. So I reached out to our local economic council, asked
them what we could do, and they got us in touch with USDA and
Tracy.
And we learned through Tracy for about, I don't even know
how many hours he was on the phone with us, he was wonderful,
about the REAP grant and the funding that was possible for us.
And so, with that, we began the work. We applied for the grant.
And the old adage that it takes a village is really true.
As a small business, all the people in this room right now
are here to support us and it is hard as a small business to
ask for that help. You just kind of think, I am going to put my
head down and I am going to make it work and it is going to
happen.
But when you are going up against a 52 percent increase in
electricity, that wasn't a reality that we could face alone. So
the Government programs and their support were integral to our
success.
So many people held our hands through the process, from the
USDA to the CDFA, to our Economic Council. And as a result, in
December 2022 we received the REAP grant and we immediately
contacted ReVision Energy and said, let's go and began the
process of constructing our system, which we do own our own
building, so.
The system consists currently, they just finished this past
June, of 142 solar panels. We produce up to 100 kilowatts of
power. It just went live this summer and one of our engineers
is like totally geeking out on it. He has got the app, and he
runs around showing how many machines do we have running at
this moment, how much power are we making.
And on days like, for example, the weekend, we don't run
unless it is--unless there has been a climate change impact and
we need to supply for the electric grid, ironically, then we
are able to push energy back into our grid.
So honestly, it is a good feeling being sustainable at this
point. We all know there are climate change incidents happening
constantly, even in the White Mountains, and to be able to be
sustainable and be able--a steward to our environment for the
future generations.
The system allows us to minimize climate change and the
risks on our operations from the electric grid, and most
importantly, allows us to remain competitive and continue our
operations and provide a domestic choice to businesses still--
by still being a viable injection molder.
And when the envelope shows up, it is a nice feeling
because one just showed up last week and, you know, when we
done the numbers, it would probably come up to a 42 percent
increase of cost of electricity, and we can rest assured that
thanks to the REAP grant and those solar panels on our roof,
that that is not going to impact our ability to provide that
high quality, low cost product.
So in closing, I would just like to thank you again for
holding this hearing today, for listening to Ambix's journey to
achieving renewable energy at our property in Albany, New
Hampshire.
And it is just--Congress supporting us with these
lifesaving programs. It is really--it has been--we wouldn't be
sitting here today as Ambix Manufacturing without them. I mean,
we save approximately $75,000 a year for electricity.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Florio follows.]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Well, thank you very much, Melissa. And thank
you to all of our panelists for your testimony. I know that
everybody in the audience would really like to ask them a lot
of questions, but sadly, under our hearing format, you are not
allowed to do that. [Laughter.]
The Chairman. I am the only one who gets to ask questions.
We should have had people running around the audience asking
you to write down any questions so I could do that. But we do
have a number of questions. And Melissa, I want to start with
you because how much--are you now producing all of the energy
that it takes to run your operation?
Ms. Florio. It is a depends answer. So if we are running
all our machines and auxiliaries, we can--we are about 65
percent that we are able to just run on the renewable energies.
If we are only running, you know, half of them, we are--all of
this is under that umbrella.
And like I said, so one of our engineers does run around
and he is like, it is a little cloudy out today, you know. But
for the most part, it is seeming to be, like I said, you know,
because we have only been live for about a month since that
resource finally changed over the meter. But what we can tell,
we are--it is going to be very beneficial to us to reduce our
costs.
The Chairman. That is great. So as a company that is
actually not in the energy business, what would you say to
other small businesses who are looking at their energy costs,
who may not know a lot about how to save money on energy, and
what do you think is the impediment and how would you suggest
we encourage them to look at finding some ways to lower their
costs?
Ms. Florio. You know, honestly, it is getting them into
events such as this, other small businesses, where the
resources are around the room to explain what is available. You
know, that is how we learned years ago even about, you know,
the energy efficient analysis that that can be done on your
plant.
You know, so we, you guys--oh gosh, you age yourself, but
maybe 12 years ago we had installed, you know, motion detector
lights. So, you know, all that kind of stuff, those low lying
fruits like I had said. So, you know, you could start there on
those low things where you can implement them.
But to look at something big, and if they don't have their
own roofs, that is a problem. Or, you know, if they are leasing
and someone will--is willing to do that. You know, knowing
that--ReVision Energy, they are clean energy, the USDA is
there, and they will take the time to explain the programs to
you.
It is just getting over the hurdle of the small business
owner asking for help and knowing that, well then--like I was
shocked, like there is help out there when we made that call,
and it was a relief. It was a relief.
The Chairman. Yes. Great. Thank you. So, Sam, can you
follow up on that and talk about how you start helping a
business get started in the process. So you hear from Ambix.
What do you do to start the process?
Mr. Evans-Brown. Yes. So because I am not the person who
directly provides that assistance, I will encourage anyone who
is curious to go talk to Gabe and Katherine because they can
get you on the journey.
But the long and short of it is we put you through an
intake, that we have an intake form on our website that asks
some very basic questions. And then, the first step is really
to start gathering together your energy bills.
Because larger businesses--and I am sure Ambix is a small
business, but we are really talking about businesses that are
even smaller, that are generally speaking, you know, often sole
operators or just have a few staff. Those are the folks that
often wind up in our circle.
So it is--so it really is, we are just talking about
getting a year's worth of your electric bills together so we
can get a sense of how much can be saved and that is where the
journey really starts. Depending on the type of project that
they are pursuing, often the next step is to get an energy
audit done and there are--CDFA does have funding that can cover
75 percent of that cost.
And so, connecting them with those programs and sort of
holding their hand to get that accomplished. Then you get your
scope of work that says here is, you know, here is your target
list of the lowest hanging fruit and let's go find, you know,
match make with the various funding streams that are available
and determine the best path forward for you.
And that actually is, I think, the thing that we are--that
we pride ourselves at Clean Energy New Hampshire in being able
to do is we try to be funding stream agnostic. Obviously we are
the technical assistance grant recipients at Clean Energy New
Hampshire, and so any time that we are spending helping a
business with REAP is as time well spent for us.
But that said, if REAP is not going to be a good fit for
the project that the business is looking for, we try to hand
them off to whoever the right service provider is, and then if
needed, give a little pokes and kicks along the way to make
sure that that project keeps on the track. So it is a lot of
one on one and it is a lot of handholding.
The Chairman. And Dan, just to follow up as somebody who is
actually there, comes in probably after Sam and Clean Energy
have done that evaluation of what can be done. How do you help
those small businesses?
Mr. Weeks. Thank you, Senator. There are a lot of small
businesses out there, as we have heard. And so very often we
will be the first call that a business makes. And we have
learned over the years that to the extent we can replicate some
of the great technical assistance that organizations like Clean
Energy New Hampshire and the agencies provide, that helps our
customers, it helps us make projects happen.
So at this point, I am leading our commercial business
unit. I get to work with a team of now very experienced
commercial designers, consultants who are well versed in the
different technologies. Obviously I have focused on solar, but
there is energy storage and EV charging and thermal solutions
for heating and cooling.
So that consultant will do that site visit, often just
taking that initial query. We will walk through the facility.
We will inspect the roof. We will check the structural, check
the roof age, or maybe there is adjacent land.
We will get into the electric panel, determine the
capacity. We will review the electric bills, and we will be
able to provide then a roadmap of options, solar being the most
common, but oftentimes businesses are looking for a broader
electrification set of solutions and then proceed step by step.
We are always thrilled when we can work with Clean Energy
New Hampshire and the USDA. Megan on my team I know is in very
common touch with your office there at USDA. And so, we have
also been honored to complete REAP applications for dozens of
projects, maybe up to 100 at this point over the years.
But it is--as Sam said, it is sitting down, understanding
their needs, trying to--because they are busy running the
business. They are expert in that. If we can lessen the load a
bit and be expert in the energy part of their challenge, that
makes their life easier, and it helps us because we are a
construction company at the end of the day, actually build
projects.
The Chairman. So is the biggest impediment knowing what is
out there, having the capital to invest to go forward, the
paperwork? What--each of you, what do you think is the biggest
challenge and how could we move the ball?
Ms. Florio. All of the above. It would be knowing it was
out there. And then once we did--I mean, we are a small
business. We do have our accountants that we have to provide
all that information, so we had it all in hand, but we didn't
know what was needed until we did speak to USDA and Tracy.
And then with ReVision Energy, they walked us through
everything. You know, they handheld us through the whole
process of, give us your electric bills. And, you know, and so
we would pdf them off to them. Give us your--okay, here you go.
Give us your--and so, if we didn't have that, we would have
gave up because there would have been a machine down, there
would have been something, and we just would have--we would
have--we just would have gave up.
You know, just because the paperwork is definitely an
impediment. Like understanding the process is definitely an
impediment. And I consider myself an intelligent person but--I
have some common sense to figure things out, but yeah, I would
definitely say.
The Chairman. So Sarah, what can we do to make that easier?
Ms. Waring. Yes. Thank you, Senator. I would add that not
only is the capacity of the small business--often it is not
their expertise to walk through this sector. This is an entire
sector, right, with technologies that are underused or
underutilized, and we have experts in the sector in an industry
that, as Dan has said, is trying to build its own workforce,
right.
And is trying to build behind folks like them the workforce
that will come in and be able to do this on behalf of all of us
so that it is not just, as Sam sometimes says, it is not just
affordable, it is automatic, right.
So capacity for small businesses is one challenge. Capacity
within an agency is another challenge. I want to thank you and
the delegation from Vermont and New Hampshire for recognizing
that staffing at Federal agencies is one of those issues that
helps us to loosen the pipeline and get more projects over
those final hurdles of paperwork and environmental processing
and so on.
But I also want to share that time is sometimes an issue.
We have always had a delay between an application and the start
of construction, and that time period, particularly as you have
heard the number, the raw numbers of increases of applications,
that time delay sometimes puts businesses out an entire season
or a half a year from where they expected to start recouping
those energy costs and savings.
There are a few other challenges that I think are important
to mention for the particular program that we run, and I am
really pleased that our other Federal agencies are here today
and can speak to businesses about their programs.
Our Rural Energy for America Program does not serve
nonprofits because it is a business, for profit business
specific program. Similarly, leasehold improvements, as Dan
mentioned. When a small business does not own its own asset
that we can build on, we have to really just think about their
equipment that we can help with, right.
We have to really narrow that window for how we can support
those small businesses that are leasing. And then the other
challenge with many Federal programs is that for small
businesses that do not have cash flow, these are reimbursement
based grants.
So the work needs to be done upfront, and the Federal cash
comes in later. And that is because we are stewarding taxpayer
dollars to make sure that the project is completed as planned
and that all of the metrics are met. That being said, it is
often difficult for our smallest businesses to front the cash,
and that's a challenge.
The Chairman. And--do you want to add to that, Dan?
Mr. Weeks. Just briefly, thank you. I did want to
underscore the financing side of this. We are very concerned
that REAP grants are now timed out where in the last couple of
weeks of applications that I know your team will be very busily
processing.
But that has been a game changer for especially small farms
and really small rural businesses that while the tax credit is
great, you can carry it back three years thanks to IRA and
forward up to 20, a lot of businesses just don't have the
profitability and therefore the tax liability to be able to
take the tax credit or only very slowly over time and value of
money, that is obviously diluted, therefore.
So having reaped grants has truly been a game changer,
especially at that elevated 50 percent level. And we very much
hope there is a way to bring--to continue that program after
September. We are also eagerly awaiting the results of debt
vehicles, reduced interest rates, etcetera under the Greenhouse
Gas Reduction Fund. Right now, the cost of capital, Wall
Street--prime rate is 7.5 percent. That is difficult to make
projects----
The Chairman. We are waiting for that, too. [Laughter.]
Mr. Weeks. So hopefully those interest rates are also
coming down as I think they are. But with these last couple of
years, these historically high rates, it has been difficult to
finance, and getting access to cheaper capital can make all the
difference.
The Chairman. So I know that the SBA just announced a
program to try and focus more on financing for businesses that
are interested in doing energy savings or green energy
projects. Has that--have you talked to anybody who is aware
that that has happened? And is there more that needs to be done
to let people know about that initiative? Yeah, Sam.
Mr. Evans-Brown. Well, I mean, I would simply ask, you
know, if you are at the owner of an ice cream shop in
Bethlehem, you know, how do you learn about a notice of Federal
funding opportunity, right.
So it is--I think the answer to that is yes. And really, it
comes down to, in my opinion, just needing more boots on the
ground that are aware of and understand the funding landscape
and that doesn't just have to be, you know, technical
assistance providing nonprofits like mine. I think what you
have heard is that--and really how I envision that this will
all work in the future is that it will actually be the
businesses like ReVision and, you know, construction companies
that understand this landscape and are doing that handholding.
So I think ReVision really is a model for how this--how the
energy transition is going to happen. That they will become the
easy button for their clients. But really what that requires,
it requires all the service providers to want to get out of bed
and do things differently than they were doing the day before
and really lean into these new technologies.
The Chairman. And what is your experience in the private
sector in terms of financing? Have you--I know that it has been
challenging to get community banks and other private sector
financing to take a look at the benefits that may come with
energy savings projects. I don't know, Sarah, you want to
respond to that?
Ms. Waring. Yes. Senator, thank you for that question. I
mentioned in my testimony that there are a number of other
programs that Rural Development in particular has that can
provide a part of that capital stack.
One of the ones that I am most excited about is one that I
hope that very soon New Hampshire will have a pot of capital to
be able to play with. It is called the Rural Energy Savings
Program.
The Rural Energy Savings Program is under our Rural
Utilities Service, and it is a re-lending program where we lend
capital to a utility, a green bank, or an eligible applicant
through our de-lending programs, and they then re-lend that
capital into the community at 5 percent or below.
So always below market rate. It could be matched then with
our REAP grants. So what could happen is a small business could
get some of that low interest capital to support those startup
costs and those initial costs--could get the grant
reimbursement for 50 percent of their project. That capital
investment and that injection into our lending community is
something that can then revolve and revolve and revolve and
stay here.
And so, what I am really excited about is that there are
other utility programs, there are other lending programs that
allow the Federal money not just to be invested once, but to be
invested again and again through a lender intermediary.
We are hopeful that we will be able to see some of that
coming to New Hampshire in the coming months. And I am really
proud of the fact that in addition to the REAP program, the
RESP program and some of the others, we were able to just
announce around $7 billion in two of the electric programs
nationwide.
And those are the largest investment in electrification
since President Roosevelt, right--in rural electrification. So
the agency is really trying to move that Inflation Reduction
Act funding on the front end of the time period that we have as
much as possible.
The Chairman. That is great. Let me just--I know Dan wants
to weigh in here, but let me also point out that SBDC, in
addition to the Community Development Finance Authority, are
here. I don't know if--I thought somebody from SBA was--is here
too. Yes, thank you. I was looking right at you.
So they also can talk about some of these new financing
mechanisms that SBA is looking at to try and help small
businesses. Dan, you wanted to weigh in.
Mr. Weeks. Thank you, Senator. Just one final comment on
the financing side. These federal, lower cost financing options
can be game changing, and they can be very difficult to
navigate.
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Weeks. And we have--unfortunately, there is sometimes a
bit of a collective groan that goes across our team when we
have an opportunity to help a client obtain Federal funds. The
compliance requirements, especially around procurement--which
is getting better. Starting in early 2025, we will be meeting
domestic content requirements for many if not all of our solar
projects, which unlocks an additional 10 percent tax credit,
which is terrific.
The Chairman. Yes. Explain that so that everybody knows.
Mr. Weeks. Yes. Under the Inflation Reduction Act, it
returned the standard ITC investment tax credit to 30 percent
instead of 10 percent or 0 for residential, and it also created
bonus tax credit opportunities, a 10 percent additional tax
credit if domestic content starts at 45 percent.
The Chairman. And domestic content means?
Mr. Weeks. Sorry, domestically manufactured. All of the
manufactured goods, the solar panels, inverters, etcetera, need
to be domestically manufactured. The full supply chain is
coming onshore, which is tremendous, and all of the raw
materials, the steel for racking, etcetera, need to be 100
percent domestic.
So we will start meeting that next year and that will ease
some of the challenges. But I am thinking of a project down in
Keene. We have been waiting a year to get a waiver to unlock
Federal funds that are crucial to allow that project to go
forward and we just can't get the status of that waiver.
The Chairman. And you need the waiver because there is not
enough domestic content?
Mr. Weeks. Because today's components aren't quite at----
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Weeks. And there are at least three different domestic
procurement thresholds. This is the Buy America Act.
The Chairman. Right. Right.
Mr. Weeks. Buy America, Build America, BABA. So navigating
some of this has been a real pain point and it has
unfortunately discouraged some projects from going forward. I
think it will get better, but I would be remiss if I didn't say
from an implementation standpoint, any time we can simplify,
standardize, it will result in projects getting built.
The Chairman. Yes. No, I appreciate that and the challenge.
I can remember the debate that we had over the whole domestic
content, the Buy America provisions, and everybody wants those
jobs here in the United States.
But sometimes that creates other impediments that business
has to deal with. And so, the waiver provision was designed to
try and help address that. But as you point, it doesn't always
work, so.
Mr. Weeks. Thank you.
The Chairman. Let me, I want to go back to the Circuit
Rider issue, Sam, that you talked about, because as I think you
are aware, one of the things we tried to do was to make the
Circuit Riders a national initiative, because it has been so
successful in New Hampshire, and it provides such assistance.
And it is something we have heard as we have traveled
around the State from small businesses and from communities,
actually. And so, we had language that we had hoped to get into
the farm bill, which has been stalled in Congress, but our
language didn't actually get in. But talk a little bit about
what you think the ability to have that be more widespread
would do for businesses and for communities across the country.
Mr. Evans-Brown. Yes. I love getting to talk about the
Circuit Rider program, so happy to happy to take some time to
do so.
We at Clean Energy New Hampshire have focused on municipal
projects because we think that community projects have the
potential to be transformative beyond just the energy savings
that accrue to the taxpayers in that community, but also
because they are so high profile.
And generally speaking, so first of all, not only when you
put solar on the roof of a library or weatherize a fire
department, not only is there is that--a bigger facility that
likely is going to get more bang for the buck than going after,
you know, a residential project.
But it is a public investment that in New Hampshire in
particular you then go to town meeting and there is a warrant
article that is going to have a fiscal note and every voter in
that town is going to be confronted with the beneficial
economics of the clean energy transition when they make that
vote.
And what we have seen is that these projects pass,
typically pass by overwhelming margins in their community. And
then you have got solar on the roof of your town hall and there
is very--there is now a robust academic literature on how the
seeing that in your community every time you drive by has the
effect of those individuals in the community then wanting to
consider that--making that choice for their own residence.
So, we think that municipal projects are transformative,
which is why we have focused on the municipal space to begin.
But, you know, going back to my initial comment, what I have
experienced in my own personal life is that there is--this is
needed at absolutely every level.
And I am someone who I have spent my entire adult life
studying these issues and wanting to pursue sustainability in
my own life. And I will tell you that even as someone who is,
you know, certifiably obsessed with this stuff, it is not easy
to do.
I remember getting in an argument with an electrician who
was telling me I was installing the wrong plug standard for my
electric car charger and having to Google, sitting there in the
garage to show him that, yes, I want an Ima 1450, not the 630
as--you know, as I ordered.
So, and just imagine if you are a regular person, an
electrician tells you are installing the wrong plug, they are
just going to say, okay. So, I think the, the, the world I am
hoping we get to is one where you don't have to have that
argument because we truly are driving towards a transformed
market where people don't have to figure this out. We can
figure it out for them.
The Chairman. Yes. And I know that we are getting close to
the deadline that we gave to people for when we would stop the
official testifying, testimony, and open to the resource fair.
But I wanted to go back, Dan, to your testimony because you
talked about three key challenges.
Net metering, which has been a challenge since back when I
was in the State Senate, which has been in the 90s, so a long
time ago. This is a challenge that the Legislature and I, and I
know we have some Legislators in the room, so thank you for
joining us. But this is a challenge that the Legislature has
been dealing with session after session.
And I appreciate, I think we have representation from some
of the utilities in New Hampshire here, some of whom have been
more supportive of net metering, expanding net metering than
others.
But I just wanted to make sure that folks understand that
this is an issue that as we look at how we expand the
localization of energy, it is going to be more and more
important. And to the extent that we haven't addressed it in
ways that encourage our uses of a variety of energy sources, it
gives us a disadvantage.
And several of you have talked about how we compare to some
of the other New England States on some of these issues. And
so, I think it is important to point out that some of these
challenges, we have got to--all of these challenges we have to
work on together, but that is one that is really a threshold
issue as we think about how to expand the ability of small
business to increase their use of energy saving technologies.
So, I don't know if you want to add to that.
Mr. Weeks. Thank you so much for lifting that up, Senator.
I joined the ConVal solar car team in the 90s. It has been a
passion of mine for a while as well. And as I track New
Hampshire's progress, I have to say that our net metering
policy is the single biggest factor that explains why in New
Hampshire today, a little over 1 percent of our electricity
comes from the sun.
South of the border, it is 24 percent. Maine used to be the
laggard at half of 1 percent five years ago. They are now at 11
percent. It is State policy that are determining that and that
are causing us to unfortunately forego the thousands of good
paying jobs, the billions of dollars in private investment
supported by Federal tax credits that New Hampshire can realize
if we can get this right, as well as some of the related
challenges around, you know, permitting and interconnection.
Just I think it was on Tuesday this week got the
frustrating news that one of our projects that is actually
going to support, intended to support low income communities
not too far from here was blocked on the permitting front
because there were some local objections to how it looked.
And we are increasingly seeing that as solar farm is
treated as stringently, sometimes even more than a shopping
mall in terms of deemed 100 percent impervious surface,
required to go through a level of local and State and sometimes
Federal permitting review that just arguably isn't appropriate
to that type, mindful of the actual environmental impact and
benefits.
So we are still at the very beginning of the energy
transition in New Hampshire, and working is a company that
spans other States, it is painfully apparent just how much of
our own investment in new jobs are going across State lines. I
really want to build our team here more and more.
So, the final comment I would make is I do think while net
metering is a State policy issue, I do think there is a
significant positive role the Federal Government could play.
The Chairman. Good. Talk about that a little more.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Weeks. Thank you. We are already seeing billions of
dollars on the related issue of interconnection flow into
making substation upgrades, it is happening in Massachusetts
and other States, that will enable that State to go from 24
percent to its eventual goals of 100 percent, of which a
significant part will be solar. Not all, but a significant
part.
Right now in New Hampshire, as I mentioned briefly,
projects can wait multiple years to commence studies, which
then cost $50,000 to $75,000 just to know if it will cost you a
quarter of a million, or a million or more dollars to
interconnect.
The Federal Government can significantly reduce those costs
to help transition our grid from a 20th, even 19th century
electric grid, to a 21st century grid that is designed and
capable of integrating these distributed resources. That would
be a game changer.
And likewise, I think perhaps, you know, incentivizing
conditioning Federal funds on State streamlining permitting
processes and perhaps even interconnection procedures. We see
other places where the cost of solar is a bulk a watt.
Australia is a great example. In the U.S., it is three
bucks a watt. It is small scale and most of that is soft costs.
We have got a lot of room to improve there.
The Chairman. We do. Clearly, as you all point out, we have
a lot to do in order to take advantage of the opportunities
that exist, and from paperwork to policies, and making sure
that people understand what is out there to help them.
But I very much appreciate your willingness to be here
today, your contribution to this conversation, and it will go
on because there is clearly a lot that we have to do. And I
want to officially point out that the record will remain open
for two weeks for additional questions and statements from the
committee.
And I want to--I guess I have to--Sean, I need to close
this out, do I, before we do the resource fair? Okay. So thank
you all very much for joining us. I will now officially declare
this hearing closed.
So but before you go, one of the exciting things about this
morning is that we have so many staff from so many agencies,
both federal, State, and nonprofit who are here to be able to
provide some assistance. And we did a similar kind of hearing
early--back in the spring on trade, and we had a resource fair
at the end of that.
And one of the things that struck me the most, I wasn't
able to stay for the resource discussion, but was how much of
it was people in the different organizations talking to each
other. Because it is not something that you all get to do on a
regular basis sometimes. And so, I think that is a real
benefit, to have everybody in the same room to know who the
players are, and to be able to access the information from
them.
So let me really share with all of you how much I
appreciate your taking time this morning to be here. The--it is
one of the advantages that we have in New Hampshire, that we do
have the ability to work closely together. And let me just
recognize a number of the organizations who are here. We have,
along with Sarah, we have USDA's Rural Development staff. The
EPA is here to talk about tools like Energy Star for small
businesses.
Clean Energy New Hampshire with Sam is here. We have the
Small Business Administration and the SBDCs who are here. They
assist not just on energy issues, but a whole range of small
business issues. We have the Department of Energy's Onsite
Energy Technical Assistance Partnership here.
And the IRS is here, which as I said to them when I came
in, I really appreciate your being here because it is one of
the top constituent concerns, calls we get in our office.
We have the Community Development Finance Authority here,
as we talked about earlier. And I think you just--you told me
we have two other people who signed in at the last minute. Yes,
DES and New Hampshire Saves.
So, thank you so much to all of our resource partners for
being here today, for sharing with the people in the audience.
And anything that we can do to be helpful in getting the word
out, I hope you will let us know. And as I introduced all of my
staff who are in the room, let them know we will do everything
we can to get the word out.
So, again, thank you all so much for being here.
[Applause.]
[Whereupon, at 11:54 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
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