[Senate Hearing 118-445]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                        S. Hrg. 118-445

                   FIVE YEARS OF THE FIRST STEP ACT:
                       REIMAGINING REHABILITATION
                      AND PROTECTING PUBLIC SAFETY

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                            JANUARY 17, 2024

                               __________

                          Serial No. J-118-50

                               __________

         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
         
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                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                   RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois, Chair

SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island     LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina, 
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota                 Ranking Member
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware       CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      JOHN CORNYN, Texas
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              MICHAEL S. LEE, Utah
CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey           TED CRUZ, Texas
ALEX PADILLA, California             JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
JON OSSOFF, Georgia                  TOM COTTON, Arkansas
PETER WELCH, Vermont                 JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
LAPHONZA BUTLER, California          THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
                                     MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee

                 Joseph Zogby, Majority Staff Director
                Katherine Nikas, Minority Staff Director

                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page

Durbin, Hon. Richard J...........................................     1

Booker, Hon. Cory................................................     5

Cornyn, Hon. John................................................     3

                               WITNESSES

Charles, Matthew.................................................     8
    Prepared statement...........................................    38
    Responses to written questions...............................    56
Markle, Steve....................................................    13
    Prepared statement...........................................    42
Smith, Charlie...................................................    11
    Prepared statement...........................................    45
Smith, Ja'Ron....................................................    14
    Prepared statement...........................................    53
    Responses to written questions...............................    58

                                APPENDIX

Items submitted for the record...................................    37

 
                   FIVE YEARS OF THE FIRST STEP ACT:
                       REIMAGINING REHABILITATION
                      AND PROTECTING PUBLIC SAFETY
                      
                                  ----------                              


                      WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 17, 2024

                              United States Senate,
                                Committee on the Judiciary,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in Room 
G50, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Richard J. Durbin, 
Chair of the Committee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Durbin [presiding], Whitehouse, 
Klobuchar, Hirono, Booker, Padilla, Welch, Butler, Graham, 
Cornyn, Lee, Hawley, and Tillis.

         OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD J. DURBIN, 
           A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

    Chair Durbin. Hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committee 
will come to order. Senator Graham, the Ranking Member, is 
running a few minutes late. He told us to go ahead and start 
without him, he'll join us. I want to thank the witnesses that 
are here today, and members of the Sentencing Commission, I 
believe are also in attendance. Thank you for joining us.
    This hearing, ``Five Years of the First Step Act: 
Reimagining Rehabilitation and Protecting Public Safety,'' is 
long overdue. Today, the Committee will hear from four 
witnesses about the success of the First Step Act. It is the 
most significant criminal justice reform legislation in a 
generation. I want to thank Ranking Member Graham and his staff 
for working with us to select today's witnesses. It echoes the 
bipartisan spirit of cooperation that led to the enactment of 
this landmark legislation.
    I also want to thank everyone who has joined us today, 
including the U.S. Sentencing Commission Chair Judge Carlton 
Reeves and his colleagues, who've been hard at work updating 
the Federal sentencing guidelines to reflect the First Step's 
reform. Last month marked the fifth anniversary of Congress 
coming together and passing the First Step Act by an 
overwhelming bipartisan majority in both the House and the 
Senate. At the outset, I'll turn to a video about the passage 
and the impact it's had.
    [Video presentation.]
    Chair Durbin. I was proud to champion this landmark 
legislation, and I want to give special credit to Senator 
Grassley who couldn't be here today, he's not feeling well, but 
he was a real leader on this effort. It was signed into law by 
President Trump. It was truly bipartisan from the start. It 
included support with Senator Grassley, as I mentioned, Senator 
Booker, Senator Lee, Senator Whitehouse, and Senator Cornyn. I 
believe those two individuals are with us here this morning.
    It acknowledges the obvious. The vast majority of people 
who are incarcerated will one day be released, so we should 
help prepare them for successful reentry. In the last 5 years, 
this landmark legislation has reduced the population in our 
overcrowded Federal prisons, safely and effectively reuniting 
families and revitalizing communities.
    In addition to looking toward the future, the First Step 
Act helps to remedy the effects of the harsh and misguided drug 
sentencing laws from the 1980s. I remember that era very well. 
I was a Member of the House of Representatives. The arrival of 
crack cocaine scared the hell out of us. We decided to impose 
new sentencing guidelines, which would make it clear to the 
public once and for all that if you do crack cocaine, we're 
going to hit you and hit you hard. We sure as hell did. 100 to 
1 disparity in sentencing between powder cocaine and crack 
cocaine.
    The net result of it all, sadly, was not what we'd hoped 
for. The price of crack cocaine on the street went down instead 
of up. The number of users went up instead of down. And we had 
the largest Federal prison population in the history of the 
United States, predominantly African Americans who were 
convicted of those crimes. The sentences were astronomic. What 
used to be a matter of a handful of years turned into 10, 15, 
20, 25 and beyond. That was the reality of the situation that 
we faced when we started talking about reforming the situation.
    The First Step Act helps to remedy the effects of that, 
those sentencing laws in the 1980s. I authored legislation, the 
Fair Sentencing Act of 2010, that reduced the disparity of 100 
to 1 between crack and powder, to 18. It's a long story as to 
how we came up with that magic number, but that was the number 
we had to live with. The First Step Act makes Fair Sentencing 
Act retroactive, allowing those still serving sentences under 
the disparity to petition for re-sentencing.
    I'm thankful for the tireless efforts of many dedicated 
advocates and families who never gave up hope that this bill 
could become law. Since the First Step Act's passage, I've met 
so many Americans who've successfully returned home because of 
this historic legislation. Some would still be in prison today 
if Congress had not passed the First Step Act and President 
Trump had not signed it.
    Today, we will hear from one of them. One of our witnesses, 
Matthew Charles, I told him he was the star of the show after 
that video. I'm glad you're here, Mr. Charles. The First Step 
Act has been quite a success. Of almost 30,000 people released 
under its reforms through January 2023, only 12.4 percent have 
been arrested for new crimes. Compare that to Bureau of 
Prison's overall recidivism rate, more than three times that 
number, 43 percent.
    Even with this legislation's achievement in reducing 
recidivism, we must remember that it is indeed a first step in 
a long journey toward thinking about rethinking rehabilitation 
and reversing failed approaches in our criminal justice system. 
In order to make our system fair, we must continue to learn the 
proven successes, smart on crime policies like the First Step 
Act. We must provide more opportunities for those who were 
incarcerated to reenter society successfully, reunite with 
their families, and contribute to their communities.
    Now, make no mistake, as much as I believe in what we've 
done and would do it all over again, there've been some of 
these situations where people have been released and broken my 
heart. I thought we'd got them on the right path, but it didn't 
happen. We can't give up on so many who are going to be 
successful in reuniting with families and rehabilitating their 
lives because of those few, but I think of them as well.
    Five years ago we wrote the blueprint for Reimagining 
Rehabilitation and Protecting Public Safety, and we know by the 
numbers that it works. Today I'm looking forward to reflecting 
on what we can achieve moving forward. Senator Graham has not 
arrived yet. I'm going to recognize Senator Cornyn, will you 
give the opening statement, and thank you for your 
participation and help on this issue from the start.
    Senator Cornyn. You bet.

                 STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN CORNYN,
             A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS

    Senator Cornyn. Well, Mr. Chairman, thank you for giving us 
the opportunity to discuss the crime in America and the 
important role played by our justice system. As we know, as you 
noted, the First Step Act sailed through Congress 5 years ago 
with overwhelming support on both sides of the aisle. It passed 
a Republican-led Senate, 87 to 12. It passed a Republican-led 
House, 358 to 36. Those were the days, and President Trump 
signed it into law.
    When we debated the First Step Act, we talked about the 
revolving door of the criminal justice system. We aimed to 
reduce recidivism rates and prevent formerly incarcerated 
people from landing behind bars again, if possible. Portions of 
the law were aimed at slowing the revolving door, particularly 
those that focus on prison programming and evidence-based 
recidivism reduction training that have been successfully 
pioneered in many States, including my home State of Texas.
    This Congress, I've continued to work with on these 
priorities with many of my colleagues on both sides of the 
aisle. Senator Coons and I, for example, have a bill to improve 
supervised release. Senator Whitehouse and I are seeking to 
reintroduce our Stronger Act, which will help incarcerated 
persons battling substance use disorders and help educate law 
enforcement on best practices. That Bill passed the Senate 
unanimously last Congress and we're aiming to get it over the 
finish line this Congress.
    Rehabilitation, when possible, was and remains an important 
part of our criminal justice system. But in order for criminals 
to be rehabilitated, they first need to be held accountable. 
Unfortunately, this administration and many liberal DAs across 
the country have gone to great lengths to ensure that dangerous 
criminals never walk through the doors of the criminal justice 
system. Some of the most egregious examples have come straight 
from our Department of Justice, our Nation's lead law 
enforcement agency.
    In December 2022, the Attorney General upended a long-
standing DOJ policy to charge the most serious readily provable 
offense. Under this administration, prosecutors aren't to try 
to hold violent criminals and drug traffickers accountable to 
the fullest extent of the law. The Garland memo directs 
prosecutors to consider whether non-criminal alternatives like 
pretrial diversion would serve Federal law enforcement 
interests.
    Additionally, the Garland memo kneecaps prosecutors from 
using the tools that Congress has given Federal prosecutors 
like mandatory minimum sentences. If a violent criminal is 
behind bars, he will not harm further on innocent people. If a 
drug trafficker serves time behind bars, he will not continue 
to pour poison onto the streets. Sadly, the Biden 
administration and liberal prosecutors appear to be more 
sympathetic to the dangerous criminals than they do to the law-
abiding citizens they harm.
    Just look at the soft-on-crime policies of Rachael Rollins, 
who was nominated and confirmed to be the U.S. attorney for the 
District of Massachusetts. Every single person on this side of 
the aisle warned that she would not enforce the law. She was 
candid about it. I recall Senator Cruz spending 20 minutes 
walking through her top 15 list of crimes that she would not 
prosecute. These were serious crimes including resisting 
arrest, destruction of property, drug dealing, and shoplifting.
    Well, we know how it ended for her. She resigned under 
serious allegations and ongoing investigations related to 
corruption and abuse of authority. Yet this administration has 
continued to double down on soft-on-crime policies. It set up a 
task force to use Federal prosecution to take down Christians 
praying in front of abortion clinics. It labeled Catholics who 
attend mass in Latin as threats. It declined to bring any 1507 
prosecutions for ongoing threats and harassment of our Supreme 
Court Justices.
    Well, and then there was the famous Garland--or I should 
say, infamous school board memorandum that the Attorney General 
still hasn't rescinded, even though the main predicate was from 
a now-rescinded letter from the National School Board 
Association.
    That memo, which apparently still stands, and which is 
official Department of Justice policy, directs the Justice 
Department, the FBI, and the National Security Division, to 
inject itself in school board meetings across the country where 
parents have a constitutional right to peacefully assemble and 
make their voices heard.
    Well, I could go on about the failures of the Biden 
administration to simply enforce the law, and the dire 
consequences that ensue from that. But let me just conclude 
with the 108,000 Americans who lost their lives last year due 
to drugs, illegal drugs, primarily coming across the U.S. 
Mexico border. We've had repeated comments under oath by the 
Secretary of Homeland Security that the border is secure.
    Well, he finally fessed up last week and said that 85 
percent of the people who they encounter at the border are 
simply released into the interior of the United States. So, the 
border obviously is not secure as long as drugs like fentanyl, 
that took the lives of 71,000 Americans last year alone, 
continue to flow into the United States and into our 
communities, across our State and Nation. So the American 
people deserve to feel safe in their communities, but that 
simply will not happen until we get back to a simple law and 
order agenda.
    I believe rehabilitation should continue to be an 
aspiration of our criminal justice system, and certainly that 
was my reason for my support for the First Step Act. But the 
American people, I think, are questioning correctly whether our 
law enforcement agencies and whether our Department of Justice 
and liberal district attorneys in cities throughout the Nation 
are equally committed to public safety. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator. And fortunately we have a 
bipartisan effort underway to deal with border security. The 
sooner it reports the better. I want to thank those who are 
participating in that effort. I think we all understand that 
challenges at our border we've never seen before in terms of 
the volumes of people coming seeking asylum or refugee status. 
And that is not a good system. It is not an orderly system. It 
is one that needs to be changed, and I hope we can do it soon. 
In a matter of weeks at the most come up with a Senate 
bipartisan approach to it long overdue.
    I also want to recognize the Chair of the Crime 
Subcommittee, Senator Booker, who was an active participant in 
the formation and passage of the First Step Act, and if Senator 
Cotton, his Ranking Member is going to attend, I'll recognize 
him as well. Senator Booker.

                 STATEMENT OF HON. CORY BOOKER,
           A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY

    Senator Booker. Chairman, thank you very much. Truly one of 
the best experiences of my life was working on this 
legislation, rolling up sleeves, sitting at tables without 
cameras around and working with good faith people on both sides 
of the aisle to do something that was very remarkable. And the 
accomplishments you laid plain here, and I think it should be 
celebrated, the success we've made, Democrats and Republicans 
coming together--Republican administration, who I got to know 
very well during the process.
    I think we have this falsehood that often rhetorically is 
heard here in Washington, that somehow Americans are not 
equally concerned, whether you're a Republican or a Democrat or 
an Independent, about the safety of their communities. I come 
from being a mayor of a city which has Republicans, Democrats, 
Independents, where the number one issue was public safety. I'm 
not sure if anybody here in the Senate more so than me, perhaps 
equally, was on the ground in communities fighting for safer 
neighborhoods.
    I found out very quickly that the police leadership, from 
the FBI Director to my local beat cops, knew that the solutions 
to security were not solely law enforcement. That in fact they 
felt like they were treating symptoms of a larger problem. And 
it was a wave of using tools to create safety that clearly were 
not achieving it, because in the years before I was mayor of my 
city, we were the greatest incarceration capital, not only of 
the world, but in all of humanity.
    The United States of America locked up more people than any 
other Nation or past empire when it comes to just the total 
gross amount of humanity that was being put into jails and 
prisons. The United States of America had one out of every four 
incarcerated people on the planet Earth. It had one out of 
every three incarcerated women on the planet Earth. And yet 
during that same time, we saw the drug problem in America 
getting worse.
    And as a result of over-incarceration, hyper-incarceration, 
and doing things to people in prison, we saw remarkably high 
recidivism rates. When I became mayor of the city of Newark, I 
realized that just helping people coming out of prison, being 
that the recidivism rates were unconsciously high, could be one 
of the best strategies. And we started doing a whole bunch of 
other things to approach this problem.
    Now, it was particularly acute to me that this was driving 
racial disparities in our country, because incarceration rates 
amongst low income communities and Black and brown communities 
were incredibly higher than in other communities, even though 
rates of drug use or drug selling were no different between 
Blacks and whites. It led to the unconscionable reality to me 
that not only were we the incarceration Nation, but we 
incarcerated African Americans at such a high rate that there 
were more Blacks under criminal supervision than all the slaves 
in 1865.
    And to look around when I became mayor in 2006, you started 
seeing examples coming from Red States of people taking a 
different approach. Texas became a model for prison reform in 
2007 when the State allocated funds for drug treatment, mental 
health, and rehabilitation for incarcerated individuals. The 
Texas recidivism rate fell as did violent crime dramatically.
    By 2018, Texas had closed four prisons, saving Texans $3 
billion, and show that you can lower your prison population and 
lower crime by focusing on empowering people, creating more 
beloved communities, and dealing with the healthcare issues, 
and mental healthcare issues, and addiction issues. Red State 
after Red State were showing this.
    South Carolina passed major sentencing reform in 2010 and 
saw revocations for parole violations fall 33 percent, 
recidivism rates falling below to 13 percent, and the State's 
prison population went down 14 percent, saving taxpayers almost 
half a billion dollars, and again, crime went down.
    Georgia Republican Governor Nathan Deal signed prison 
reform legislation into law in 2012, and the State had one of 
the Nation's highest incarceration rates, costing over a 
billion dollars a year. But within three years of lowering 
their prison population, Georgia saw their crime dramatically 
fall, and Georgia also went on to enact juvenile justice reform 
and other criminal justice reforms that ultimately saw a 3.5 
percent in its overall prison population decline from 2016 to 
2012.
    And so it frustrates me when opportunistically we use 
issues of fear and understandable concerns about crime to drive 
wedges between our society, as opposed to looking at the 
practitioners out there in States and local levels who are 
actually showing a lot of success. As much as we'd like to 
think that ideas that were passed in the first step are somehow 
original, they're not. They came from Republicans and Democrats 
who just wanted to solve problems. And we didn't do everything 
that Georgia, South Carolina, and Texas did.
    We did not do all the innovations coming out of Red States. 
We did some of them, and that's why we called it the First Step 
Act. And so today we herald a celebration. You and I, Mr. 
Chairman, have met with a lot of the families that had their 
liberated people from prison reclaiming the ideals of our 
democracy because the most sacrosanct aspect of our democracy, 
if you read our founding documents, we were formed for our own 
safety and security for the common defense, and we were formed 
around the ideals of liberty.
    And so we could continue in this institution pointing 
fingers, damning and condemning, and adding to a culture of 
contempt, or we could get back to what ideas are working in 
States and cities, and how can we at the Federal Government do 
practical common sense things to give strength and support to 
that.
    I sat last night with Denver's mayor, who's set remarkable 
records for eradicating homeless populations in his community. 
And he openly talked about the Republican business leaders he 
worked with finding practical solutions that, hey, had the 
secondary effect of limiting crime that's caused often in these 
homelessness encampments.
    And so I just want to encourage us, one of the best 
experiences I've had in my decade in the Senate was around this 
bill. Working with people that our side vilifies, from Jared 
Kushner to Lindsey Graham, and they're working with people 
that, I'm sure I'm not a beloved person in the media circles in 
which my colleagues on the other side of the operate.
    But we just said, let's come together and do what is 
already working, what evidence-based shows it works, and have 
the byproduct of lowering crime, lowering recidivism, and doing 
what this country was called to do: to create more beloved 
communities. I've gone to the homes of people who were released 
by this bill. You want to talk about family values? Reunite 
someone who is over incarcerated with their children.
    You want to talk about stronger communities? People who are 
released by this bill are leading nonprofits in some of these 
communities dedicated to keeping other people out of prison. 
And so, every issue that we sometimes opportunistically use to 
beat the other side, I promise you, as I sat down with a mayor 
last night for dinner, local mayors don't care about left or 
right. As Fiorello LaGuardia said, there's no republican or 
democratic way to fix a pothole.
    We on this Committee could do more to get people access to 
treatment. We could do more to stop mental health people from 
committing crimes. We could do more to make our prisons places 
of empowerment and not compounding trauma. We could do more to 
help people who are hurting. We could do more in our country. 
Common sense, bipartisan work to solve problems as opposed to 
curse the darkness. And so this is a point of light. I 
celebrate it. But if this is the first step, let's do more. 
Let's do more. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Booker. It's time for the 
next step, and I think we all should be open to that 
possibility. I want to welcome our consensus witness panel. 
First witness will be Matthew Charles, a senior policy advisor 
with the criminal justice reform organization, FAMM, and one of 
the first people released from Federal prison under the First 
Step Act.
    We also are joined by J. Charles Smith, State's attorney 
for Frederick County, Maryland, and president of the National 
District Attorney's Association. We also welcome Ja'Ron Smith, 
who served as a Deputy Assistant to former President Trump on 
the White House Domestic Policy Council. And last but not 
least, we'll hear from Steve Markle, special education teacher 
with the Bureau of Prisons and the National Secretary Treasurer 
for the Council of Prison Locals.
    Let me lay out the mechanics. After swearing in the 
witnesses, they'll each have 5 minutes to make an opening 
statement. Members will then have 5 minutes each to ask 
questions of those members of the panel. So let me administer 
the oath and ask the panel to please rise. Raise your right 
hand please.
    [Witnesses are sworn in.]
    Chair Durbin. Let the record reflect that the witnesses 
thankfully have answered in the affirmative. And we're going to 
start with Mr. Charles and your opening statement. Please 
proceed.

   STATEMENT OF MATTHEW CHARLES, FIRST STEP ACT BENEFICIARY, 
                      NASHVILLE, TENNESSEE

    Mr. Charles. Thank you, Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member 
Graham, and Members of the Committee. Good morning. My name is 
Matthew Charles and I'm happy to be here. Since I was released 
under the First Step Act 5 years ago, I've spoken on several 
occasions about my journey and that legislation. I've even 
spoken to some of you before in this very Chamber. I'm happy to 
be here today to mark the 5-year anniversary of this landmark 
legislation.
    I've been called a man of few words but many smiles. But 
today I've got both. I'm honored and pleased to be with you now 
to celebrate and reflect on the First Step Act and the 
difference it's made in my life and thousands of others. But 
before I talk to you about who I am today, you need to hear 
about who I used to be, because my story is a story of 
redemption.
    That's an empty word, unless change has happened, and I can 
assure you, change has definitely happened. I grew up in a 
dangerous public housing block in North Carolina. My days and 
nights were filled with fear. I was consumed with trying to get 
as far away as possible from my father's relentless abuse and 
frequent beatings. From the age I could talk and walk, these 
things had occurred in my life.
    Due to that environment and my father's influence, I soon 
found myself with these huge wells of anger and frustration and 
not much else. I began to act out as a way of coping. I got as 
mean and as tough as my father was, and I made a lot of very 
bad choices. Incidentally, I share all this not as an excuse, 
but to help you understand why I made the bad choices that 
resulted in my incarceration.
    When I turned 18, in an effort to break free from my home 
life and straighten out, I joined the Army. I still had so much 
anger in me because of my past though. And when my service was 
over, I turned to wayward living and selling drugs. This landed 
me in State prison for about 5 years. Then things got even 
worse. I was arrested in 1995 and convicted in 1996 for selling 
216 grams of crack cocaine to an informant and illegally 
possessing a gun.
    Because of my prior criminal activity, and because I sold 
crack cocaine instead of powder cocaine, I was given a 35-year 
sentence. I want to be clear, I believe that my incarceration 
was justified. I was far down the wrong path and my 
incarceration allowed me to slow down, look inwardly and began 
to heal and rehabilitate. However, I believe my 35-year prison 
sentence was excessive. If crack and powder cocaine were 
treated the same when I was sentenced, my sentence would've 
been 20 years and not 35 years, but the 100 to 1 disparity was 
in place at that time.
    I told you my story was about redemption. Well, here's 
where that begins, the good part. It was before sentencing in 
the county jail and I met a guy named Jesus Duran. We got to 
talking and when he was sentenced and transferring out, he left 
me all of his things. I think he felt sorry for me, but among 
those things was a Bible. I had never read the Bible before in 
my life, had no interest in reading it, but for some reason, 
sitting there in that jail cell, I cracked it open.
    And as I read those words, turning the pages slowly, I felt 
something deep inside of me change. All that anger and pain and 
bitterness that had controlled me up until that point, I gave 
it up. Just let go. I surrendered my heart and life over to the 
Lord Jesus Christ. From that moment on, my attitude toward 
people changed, right down to the officers that brought me my 
food trays at the jail.
    I thought about the hard journey ahead of me, 35 years, not 
with agony and fear, but now with determination to be better 
and not waste my life any further. I went to Federal prison and 
continued to live out the new life that I had accepted 
according to my faith. I worked as a GED tutor, a law library 
clerk, and as a mentor to younger people. I helped illiterate 
prisoners understand the letters they received from the courts 
and their own families. And I drafted filings for them.
    Over the next 21 years, I didn't receive a single 
disciplinary infraction. And every day when I woke up, I lived 
my life like someone who deserved a second chance, not like 
someone whose life will be defined by my worst actions. All my 
years in prisons, all of us inside together watch criminal 
justice reforms on the horizon. We cheered when they happened 
and were crushed when they went nowhere.
    Senators, we also watch you and we prayed that you would 
help us. When it seemed like the First Step Act might actually 
pass, we we're all glued to the television. We watched 
President Donald Trump as he was about to sign it, holding our 
breath. And when he finally did, we cheered and shouted, 
hallelujah. And I was released.
    Thanks to many of you, especially Senator Grassley and 
Chairman Durbin, I was spared from spending another decade 
behind bars. I left prison for good on January 3, 2019. Just 
two weeks after President Trump signed the bill into law. I 
became the first person to benefit from the retroactive 
provision in the First Step Act. I had a lot of amazing life 
moments since my release. I was the guest of President Trump at 
the 2019 State of the Union. I met Senators from across the 
country, including many on this Committee.
    But the most rewarding experience and the most important 
work I have done, has been advocating for those that I left 
behind. There are a lot of people still behind bars who, like I 
was, are committed to making changes and finding a new path, 
who do not need to spend decades in prison to learn about their 
lesson, or to learn their lessons. I've been working hard for a 
system that is fair and just and doesn't harm families and 
communities by keeping people incarcerated unnecessarily.
    Today as we reflect about the First Step Act, I am reminded 
of the powerful broad bipartisan support this bill enjoyed when 
it was signed into law by President Trump. I'm here today to 
encourage Congress to continue on that path of bipartisan 
criminal justice reform. Some people may fear that criminal 
justice reform will make our communities less safe. But I'm 
here to tell you, that your work on the First Step Act has 
proven that this line of thinking is incorrect.
    I've told you my story, but if I'm not special--and I'm 
not--I'm not unique. In my advocacy work, I've met many, many 
beneficiaries of the First Step Act who are out here in 
freedom, making their families stronger and their communities 
safer. They are living proof that reform does work. And 5 years 
of data bears us out as well. Because of the First Step Act, 
some of our country's most excessive and unfair sentencing 
practices, misguided sentencing laws meant to keep us safer, 
which in reality has had the opposite effect, have been 
reformed.
    This means that dangerous overcrowding in prisons is 
decreasing, rehabilitation rates are on the rise, and thousands 
of families like mine have been reunited and are stronger. As 
to the fear people released will go right back into a life of 
crime, of the nearly 30,000 people released under the First 
Step Act, only 12.4 percent have been arrested or returned to 
Federal custody, much lower than a general Federal recidivism 
rate of 43 percent, which we also watched in the video earlier.
    Between 2022 and 2023, participation in rehabilitative 
programming and productive activities in prison has jumped by 
more than a third because of the First Step Act. The vast 
majority of people in Federal prison will be released one day, 
over 90 percent of them will. Thanks to the First Step Act, 
they will be better prepared to return to their families and 
communities and be productive law-abiding members of society.
    Remember, I told you that mine was a story of redemption. I 
told you about that moment in my jail cell before I even got to 
prison, when I felt redeemed, the day that I accepted the Lord 
Jesus Christ. And I told you that my life in prison was one of 
positive productivity. But the main reason I'm here today is to 
tell you that my redemption meant nothing compared to what it 
means now.
    Now that the First Step Act has placed me out here in 
freedom, it's out here that I can really walk the walk, and 
make my family stronger, my community safer, and my country 
more just and fair. Thank you for the First Step Act, and thank 
you for this opportunity.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Charles appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Mr. Charles. Mr. Charles Smith is 
next.

   STATEMENT OF CHARLIE SMITH, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL DISTRICT 
           ATTORNEYS ASSOCIATION, FREDERICK, MARYLAND

    Mr. C. Smith. Thank you, Chairman Durbin, and Members of 
this Committee. My name's Charlie Smith. I'm the State's 
attorney for Frederick County, Maryland, just off 270. I'm also 
president of the National District Attorney's Association, 
which is the oldest and the largest national nonpartisan, 
nonprofit organization. We represent over 3,000 elected State's 
attorneys and district attorneys across the country, as well as 
over 40,000 assistant prosecutors.
    Part of our mission is to serve as the voice of America's 
prosecutor. We recognize the vital role that prosecutors play 
in the safety of local communities, including evaluating and 
making ongoing improvements to our criminal justice system that 
promote fairness, accountability, efficiency, and justice. And 
so I do appreciate this opportunity to talk about NDAA's effort 
toward realizing goals of the First Step Act.
    By way of background, we are and should be, as prosecutors, 
at the very forefront of continuously improving our criminal 
justice system. We must support public safety and enforcement 
of the law while promoting accountability, rehabilitation, and 
alternatives to incarceration. So we are tasked with a 
constitutional duty of protecting our communities. We serve 
justice each and every day in our courtrooms, balancing the 
needs of the victims of crime against protecting the innocent. 
And once again, we're acutely aware of the need to improve and 
reform our criminal justice system as we're doing it each and 
every day.
    So, the First Step Act was supported by NDAA. It was a 
bipartisan effort to address front-end sentencing change and 
back-end prison reform. And we felt it struck an appropriate 
balance between addressing the needs of the current prison 
population, while ensuring criminals are penalized 
appropriately. The FSA provided meaningful change where truly 
dangerous criminals are locked up for an appropriate period of 
time, and those with addiction or mental health issues have a 
chance for treatment and rehabilitation.
    In terms of the First Step Act implementation, one of the 
great things about the Act is its proven effectiveness for low-
risk non-violent offenders while ensuring the public is 
protected from high-risk violent offenders. So only one year 
after the First Step Act was signed into law, the Bureau of 
Prisons received a risk and needs assessment through the use of 
a tool known as PATTERN. And again, this tool was intended to 
calculate the risk of recidivism of inmates as required by the 
FSA.
    It also made adjustments to good time credit--allowed 
eligible inmates to earn good time credits for participating 
and completing assigned evidence-based recidivism reduction 
programs. So the BOP policies were updated to expand the use of 
home confinement for low risk individuals and pilot programs 
for the elderly and terminally ill inmates. And so the 
Department's drug treatment strategy has enrolled thousands of 
inmates in RDAP, which is the Residential Drug Abuse Program. 
And last, they also use Medication Assisted Treatment Program 
available to qualified inmates.
    What we'd like to emphasize is that the First Step Act is 
not just a feel-good act that sounds good in theory. It really 
is not. The data suggests that recidivism rates have dropped 
substantially, and we've heard those rates from the Chairman, 
from Mr. Charles to my right, that are substantially lower than 
the other rates. I mean, you're talking 12.4 percent versus 
46.2 percent. I mean, those are compelling statistics, and go 
to show that FSA was again, not just some kind of feel-good 
act, but something that really had proven results.
    In terms of the State impact, thanks to the reauthorization 
of the Second Chance Act originally passed by Congress in 2008 
under FSA, grant-funded initiatives and programs designed to 
continue to reduce recidivism and improve the reentry process 
remained intact. The Second Chance Act allowed nonprofit 
organizations to be eligible grant recipients for programs 
centered on career training and substance use disorder 
treatment. It also established partnerships between Federal 
prisons and faith-based and community-based organizations 
around recidivism reducing programming.
    From 2009 to 2022, BJA, the Bureau of Justice Assistance, 
awarded more than 1,100 Second Chance Act grants amounting to 
more than $600 million. Through Fiscal Year 2022, these grants 
have been administered in 845 State and local agencies across 
the United States and territories, with over 400,000 
participants served. In Senator Graham's home State of South 
Carolina, the Department of Parole, Probation, and Pardon 
services created a leadership academy in four counties to 
promote coordination and information sharing among supervisors 
and managers.
    Officers were trained on effective practices. Grant funds 
were dispersed toward community-based substance use treatment 
services to offset cost to participants, and risk and need 
assessment results were used to modify caseload and guide 
officers' decisions about interventions. As a result, 
revocations decreased from 34 percent to 19 percent in a 5-year 
period, from 2010 to 2015. Again, meaningful stats.
    The New Jersey Administrative Office of the Courts used 
grant funds toward risk-based supervision pilot programs in 
three counties. Again, they used a standardized risk assessment 
to evaluate the needs of people on probation, and modified 
supervision practices and services based on these findings. 
Probation officers' caseloads were adjusted to focus more 
resources on individuals assessed as a high risk, not low risk.
    Pilot participants were less likely to be arrested or to 
violate their parole conditions within 210 days of the start of 
the program. The rearrest rate was 11 percent compared to 18 
percent in the control group. And the frequency of violating 
parole conditions was 7 percent compared to 21 percent in the 
control group. The Santa Maria Hostel in Harris County, Texas, 
provides treatment for substance use disorders, supportive 
housing, and mentoring services to formerly incarcerated women.
    The Second Chance Act grant funds were used to hire 
recovery coaches to provide one-on-one support to women in its 
Path to Recovery program to assist with attaining their reentry 
goals, as well as connect women with housing, education, and 
employment services. And these few stories--there are many--
highlight that common-sense Federal legislation like the FSA 
improves our criminal justice system and inspires States to 
mirror these efforts at the local level.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Mr. Smith.
    Mr. C. Smith. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. C. Smith appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Appreciate it. Mr. Markle.

                   STATEMENT OF STEVE MARKLE,
                 NATIONAL SECRETARY-TREASURER,

          COUNCIL OF PRISON LOCALS, ROCKVILLE, INDIANA

    Mr. Markle. Good morning, Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member 
Graham, and Members of the Committee. I'm honored to represent 
the Council of Prison Locals and provide a statement on the 
implementation of the First Step Act within the Federal Bureau 
of Prisons. The Council of Prison Locals represents nearly 
30,000 Bureau of Prisons employees who work tirelessly inside 
America's prisons. These dedicated correctional professionals 
ensure the safety of inmates, staff, and the public even in the 
face of adversity posed by some of the world's most dangerous 
individuals.
    Having worked for the Federal Bureau of Prisons for over 20 
years as a special education teacher, I have firsthand 
experience witnessing the positive impact of the First Step 
Act. I can attest to the added desire for inmates to attend GED 
courses, which will allow them upon completion to enroll in 
vocational courses. We have seen the increase of inmates 
enrolling in apprenticeship courses and participation in adult 
continuing education classes.
    The dyslexia screening requirement of the First Step Act 
has assisted in identifying inmates with learning disabilities. 
Identifying disabilities has enhanced our staff's ability to 
assist these inmates. While the BOP is known and provided 
educational courses for years, this Act has highlighted the 
need to enhance what has been previously provided. An enormous 
amount of classes have been added since the implementation of 
the First Step Act.
    Over the years, we have collaborated with Chair Durbin's 
office and Senator Grassley's office in regards to the First 
Step Act and its effect on the Bureau. Our Council also 
continue to work with BOP representatives to develop policies 
for the successful implementation and management of the First 
Step Act. The Council remains committed to the First Step Act 
and the goal to reduce repeat offenses and to prepare inmates 
for release. Active participation in programs is crucial for 
successful preparation.
    Inmates now show more interest in programs that they may 
have previously ignored. They currently receive credit for 
being on waiting lists, trying to enroll into full programs. To 
ensure inmates receive the necessary skills and education, it's 
important to increase staffing, and also to increase 
programming spaces. The Council supports the FSA's motive and 
the ability to motivate inmates to stay engaged in programming, 
reducing idleness.
    I'm eager to discuss the First Step Act's effects on the 
dedicated staff members who carry out the Bureau's mission each 
day. Previous Directors of the Bureau of Prisons have lauded 
the positive impact to the First Step Act before this very 
Committee, and we acknowledge its importance as well. However, 
we believe that certain factors, if left unaddressed, will 
limit the Acts full potential.
    Our primary concern is the current staffing levels within 
the Bureau of Prisons. Since the signing of the First Step Act, 
the filled positions in the Bureau of Prisons have decreased 
from over 43,000 to the current amount of 34,000. This 
reduction of 8,708 staff members raises concerns about our 
ability to effectively carry out our responsibilities. The 
impact of these staffing cuts particularly evident among our 
correctional officers, who serve as our first line of security.
    At the end of 2023, we have approximately 12,300 
correctional officers, which are 8,000 below the appropriated 
number from Congress. When requested for staffing members, the 
Bureau often provides ratios and percentages to Members of 
Congress. We have only 60.1 percent of our appropriated 
correctional officers right now. The insufficiency leads to the 
overuse of a procedure known as augmentation and reassignment. 
This is where non-correctional officers are assigned to perform 
the duties of correctional officers.
    This not only compromises the safety by reducing the number 
of staff available to respond to emergencies, but also hinders 
the provision of programming in the First Step Act. To fully 
realize the Act's potential, it's crucial to address the 
critical staffing crisis within the Bureau of Prisons. The 
Council believes that staffing crisis can only be resolved by 
addressing a pay band issue. The current pay structure within 
the Bureau is significant lower than other Federal law 
enforcement agencies.
    Additionally, the Bureau's pay scale is non-competitive 
with also State and local law enforcement, or positions in the 
private sector. Without addressing this pay disparity, the 
Bureau will struggle to attract and retain employees, 
ultimately hindering the overall success of the First Step Act.
    In conclusion, Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member Graham, and 
Members of the Committee, the First Step Act has been very 
successful, however, it has yet to reach its full potential and 
will continue on this path until the critical staffing and pay 
crisis can be addressed. Thank you for the opportunity to share 
our concerns with the Committee, and we're happy to answer 
questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Markle appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Mr. Markle. Mr. Smith.

STATEMENT OF JA'RON SMITH, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT FOR DOMESTIC 
           POLICY FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP, WASHINGTON, DC

    Mr. J. Smith. Thank you, Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member 
Graham, and Members of the Judiciary Committee. I am honored 
here today to commemorate the 5-year anniversary of the First 
Step Act. Growing up, I've witnessed firsthand the damage that 
a broken criminal justice system can reap on families and 
communities. So, when I got the chance to work on a landmark 
criminal justice reform bill during my time in the Trump 
Administration, I jumped on it.
    I worked with many people in this room on both sides of the 
aisle; right-of-center groups such as Right on Crime, Americans 
for Prosperity, the American Conservative Union, Tzedek 
Association, Prison Fellowship, the Deason Center, and many 
others supported the bill and continued to lead on criminal 
justice reform today. We worked hand-in-hand with Democratic 
leaders in the House and the Senate, and with left-of-center 
groups such as the ACLU, Cut 50 or Dream, and Families Against 
Mandatory Minimums.
    Together, we passed a bill that has had tremendous success. 
However, some critics of the law have cherry-picked rare cases 
of recidivism to claim the First Step Act contributed to the 
rise in crime during the pandemic. That is simply not true. 
According to Federal data, the recidivism rate for Federal 
prisoners is about 43 percent. For those released under the 
First Step Act, the rate is just 12 percent, and technical 
violations, not new crimes, account for a third of that number.
    We're now at a crossroads with a critical choice to make. 
We can either pursue policies that have proven to fail, or we 
can follow in the footsteps of the First Step Act and continue 
to adopt policies that are smart on crime. That is exactly what 
I've continued to work on since leaving the White House. I've 
partnered with right-of-center and law enforcement groups to 
continue pushing for reforms like the First Step Act that are 
smart on crime.
    We created a coalition called Public Safety Solutions for 
America that is guided by four common sense principles for 
reducing crime. First, support our police by properly funding 
them. We need to ensure that there are enough police on the 
streets and that departments have the amount of money they need 
to attract, train, and retain the best talent.
    Second, focus law enforcement's time and resources on 
preventing and solving the most serious crimes. Police are too 
often asked to play the role of social worker. Specialized 
community groups must take on a larger role in managing mental 
illness, drug use, homelessness, so police can focus more on 
preventing and solving violent crime.
    Third, implement evidence-based policies that have been 
proven to reduce violent crime. For example, Dallas Police 
Chief Eddie Garcia has used proven tactics such as focused 
deterrence, hotspot policing, and urban blight reduction. As a 
result, overall violent crime has decreased in the city for the 
third year in a row.
    Fourth, continue exploring, sharing, and enacting smart-on-
crime solutions that hold people accountable, increase public 
safety, and respect the dignity of all human beings. These 
types of smart-on-crime solutions resonate with conservatives. 
Pollings from the Adams Project indicates that 86 percent of 
Republican primary voters agree with the policies in the First 
Step Act.
    America deserves a more effective criminal justice system, 
one that supports our police, holds criminals accountable, and 
helps those who have earned a second chance successfully 
reenter society without wasting taxpayer dollars. The First 
Step Act was a bipartisan win that accomplished all of this. We 
should strive for more bipartisan solutions, because at the end 
of the day, safety for all Americans' should not be political.
    And I just want to say lastly that in my experience, and 
being blessed to be a part of this great piece of legislation, 
the experience has showed me that anything is possible in 
America. Even in the most partisan environments, our leaders 
can come together and focus on reform that changes Americans' 
lives and helps empower individuals.
    And so I encourage you to stay focused and committed to 
this effort and continue to do the hard work, staying up late 
and working through your differences. Because at the end of the 
day, it's all about our common goals as America to be a better 
country. Thank you for your time and thank you. Good day.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. J. Smith appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you very much, Mr. Smith. And let me 
personally thank you for your constructive suggestions of 
things that we might consider moving forward. Mr. Markle, thank 
you for identifying the reality on the ground of the number of 
corrections officers at risk every day, and some of the 
challenges which we've created in Congress because of our lack 
of funding appropriately in that field.
    But I'd like to really go back to a point I made earlier 
with Senator Booker. It's nice to feel good about what we've 
achieved with the First Step Act, and we should. There are a 
lot of great success stories. But what is the next step? What 
is the next step? If we look at the current situation with the 
law and its application, and the current situation facing us 
with incarceration, we still have many, many challenges.
    I'd like to invite you to give me any suggestions or ideas. 
If you want to reflect on it and get back to the Committee, 
that's fine too. But let me start with Mr. Charles. There was a 
moment when your life turned around. Was that all your 
decision, your experience? Was there something external that 
made a difference to you that you think could help someone else 
in the future?
    Mr. Charles. I think what actually took place in my life 
was, I was at a period to where I was in the county jail, my 
past, like I said, had been one of shame. And at that moment, I 
think the fact that I was arrested, in that county jail, and 
open to change, that it actually happened. But I don't want to 
get caught up on the fact that my story is unique in any 
capacity, because people actually change or become 
rehabilitated for various reasons.
    A lot of times it may be because they've now been separated 
from their family and their loved ones for a prolonged period 
of time. It may be due to the fact that they've aged since 
they've been incarcerated. And it may just be to the fact that 
they've waken up and realized because of what I've done, I 
don't have an opportunity to go anywhere. And that's kind of 
like what took place in my life. The change happened, but I 
wasn't released until 22 years later. Yes.
    Chair Durbin. Well, I will tell you that nobody is asking 
for the Durbin plan for shaping up Congress, but I'm going to 
give part of it to you anyway. I think that every Member of 
Congress in every two year term or every six year term, should 
visit a foreign country. I think it's important to come to 
understand that country even better and come to understand your 
home even more.
    And secondly, visit a prison. I've done that regularly 
throughout my congressional career. It's important that Members 
of Congress see this firsthand and meet the people in these 
prisons, those who are serving time and those who are watching 
them. It'll give you a better understanding of our system of 
justice. And you'll realize, as Mr. Markle indicated, that 
there is some danger associated with it for sure. There are 
people there who are dangerous people and will always be 
dangerous, and we have to acknowledge that reality.
    But there are also people like you, Mr. Charles, who has 
that one moment of Paul on the road to Tarsus, if I got that 
correct, and struck from his horse and changed his life, and 
you had that moment.
    Mr. Smith from the District Attorney's Association, what is 
your thought about what else we could be doing or should be 
doing from the First Step Act?
    Mr. C. Smith. Well, the First Step Act did a great job of 
differentiating between good people making bad decisions, and 
bad people making bad decisions. okay? The bad people who make 
bad decisions, they stay in jail because they should. They're a 
threat to public safety. The good people that made a bad 
decision that were convicted for it, went to jail for it, are 
getting rehabilitated and released earlier, as well they 
should.
    I think there's a narrative out there about mass 
incarceration. Well, without mass criminality, there would be 
no incarceration. So I think what we need to do is focus on why 
people are committing crime in the first place. We have a 
problem with crime in the United States of America, juvenile 
crime especially. On a recent call to the White House, I was 
told that car thefts among juveniles are almost a million car 
thefts across the United States of America.
    Chair Durbin. It's a terrible problem. Terrible challenge.
    Mr. C. Smith. It's a terrible problem. So, we're doing a 
great job of implementing reforms like the First Step Act. I 
think what we're not really doing a great job of, is figuring 
out why people are committing crime in the first place. I don't 
know whether it's a lack of opportunity, whether it's a lack of 
family, education, I'm not sure. But we need to definitely 
focus on why people are taking a first step toward committing 
crime and do something about that.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you. Senator Cornyn.
    Senator Cornyn. Thank you very much to each of the 
witnesses for your contribution toward this important 
legislation. And it is nice to be able to revisit something 
that happened 5 years ago and to see that we were able to work 
together on a bipartisan, bicameral basis and get something 
done that's significant in so many different ways.
    Mr. Smith, I want to just go over with you some of your 
comments because I think they're really important and bear 
emphasis. When we talk about over-incarceration, that's a 
general comment and, I guess, designed to apply to all people 
convicted of crimes. But you made the important point that--and 
I can't think of a better way to say it--differentiating 
between good people making bad decisions and bad people making 
bad decisions.
    In other words, you talked about the low risk nonviolent 
nature of the people who benefited primarily by the First Step 
Act and the role of the risk assessments--evidence-based risk 
assessments, to determine who is likely to commit further 
crimes if released and--and who would be unlikely to be.
    So, do you think that's an important point to emphasize in 
all this? It's not just saying we're going to open up the 
prison doors and release serial murderers or people that are 
likely to continue to commit serious crimes, but rather a 
smart, targeted way to reduce incarceration, where people will 
take advantage of the programs and deal with whether it's a 
substance abuse problem or mental health problem, and are 
likely to be successful like Mr. Charles has been able to be so 
far.
    Mr. C. Smith. Thank you, Senator. You used the word 
strategic, I believe. And that's what we need to do. We need to 
collect data. We're currently doing that through transparency 
projects, first and foremost. But one of the reasons why I, as 
an elected Republican prosecutor am in favor of data, is to 
disprove what I believe to be false narrative out there about 
who it is we prosecute and how long we seek prison sentences.
    Because without the data, it's just unfounded opinion. And 
so we need to be informed, and we need to realize what it is 
that we're doing. And so without data we can't do that. And I 
think one of the things that--that First Step did, was these 
tools. They said, ``Hey, look, we're going to take a look; 
we're going to drill down; we're going to see the data. This 
data is irrelevant for whether we need to release somebody. 
This data is relevant.'' So they got rid of some data points 
that just made no sense.
    And so I think if we continue to do that, we're going to 
have informed decision-making about who is violent and who is 
not, who needs to come back out into the community and who 
should not, because let's face it, we still have a lot of 
repeat violent offenders out there that are harming our 
communities, urban and suburban for that matter.
    Senator Cornyn. Let me ask you further about nonviolent 
offenders. There's some people who suggest that people who deal 
and distribute, sell illegal drugs, can be nonviolent 
offenders. Is that your experience, that drug dealers are 
nonviolent?
    Mr. C. Smith. That's a tricky question. So, there are some 
that are, and some that are not. Quite frankly, I grew up in 
East Baltimore, one of five kids in a row home. Two of my 
sisters were drug addicts. My one sister was a heroin addict 
for many years, and died in her thirties, largely in part to 
her addiction. So, she was a dealer user. So, she was 
nonviolent. She'd, you know, sell a little bit, use a little 
bit. There's plenty of those people out there.
    And then we have drug merchants who have guns, they have 
organizations, they are brutal in their tactics. And so, once 
again, let's take a look at the data. Let's see who we're 
dealing with here and treat each one appropriately.
    Senator Cornyn. Well, what I was thinking about, and 
appreciate the distinction that you drew, is the 108,000 
Americans who died as a result of drug overdoses and poisoning 
from fentanyl last year. And the way that that actually gets 
distributed in communities throughout the United States. Is it 
your experience that criminal street gangs and others in 
communities all around the Nation are the principle mode of 
distributing the drugs that come across the border and that 
make their way into our communities?
    Mr. C. Smith. I don't know if the criminal street gang 
would be the organization that brings it across the border, but 
they're definitely the organization that distributes it in our 
local communities back home. There's no doubt about that.
    Senator Cornyn. And they are the ones most likely to be 
associated with gun violence and other--other crimes in our 
communities, correct?
    Mr. C. Smith. It's not uncommon for guns to be used in that 
activity. That's correct.
    Senator Cornyn. Thank you very much.
    Mr. C. Smith. You're welcome.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Hirono.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to thank 
all the panelists, and it is very clear that the First Step Act 
has seen a lot of success, and it was done in a bipartisan way. 
And I thank the Chairman, the Ranking Member, as well as 
Senator Booker, who, for him, this is a very important issue.
    I do want to ask each of you with the diverse backgrounds 
that you have, as you talked about the successes under the 
First Step Act, for each of you--and we can start with Mr. 
Charles--what is the most effective next step that we can take 
to follow up on the First Step Act that we should consider 
pursuing in a bipartisan way? I know that the Chairman asked 
some of you this, but I just wanted to get a sense from the 
entire panel, what do you think is the most important next step 
that we should contemplate?
    Mr. Charles. Thank you, Senator. I would say in regards to 
that question, there are two things that immediately come to 
mind. I believe that there should be Second Look laws passed by 
this Congress for those Federal prisoners. And the reason being 
is because whenever I gave my testimony earlier, I spoke about 
me serving 22 years in prison, and I also spoke about my saving 
date, you know, that I accepted my savior in 1995, and I was 
sentenced in 1996 to 35 years.
    So, for over 20 something years, I was in Federal prison 
with not one disciplinary infraction. I was doing everything 
that you would want somebody incarcerated to do to show signs 
of rehabilitation. But nobody knew that except me, my family, 
and those that were formerly incarcerated around me, because 
the judge never knew that; he sentenced me, and I was gone.
    And the society never knew that. They just knew how I used 
to be when I was out in the street. So, Second Look laws will 
allow that person to petition the court, and then the court 
will be able to look at that person's record of incarceration 
and see have there been any, you know, substantial changes, 
also to see what type of vocational or educational courses or 
classes that they have achieved taken.
    And then he would be able to make a conscious decision, of 
course, with the district attorney also looking at that 
petition and filing whatever statement that he want to for or 
opposing it, and then be able to say, okay, this person has 
made a significant change in his life and no longer remains a 
threat or a public safety factor, and therefore could be safely 
released back into society.
    So I would say to create some Second Look laws is one, and 
the other is--one that I'm hoping this Congress will pass this 
year--is pass the Equal Act. And the reason being is because I 
was sentenced under 100 to 1. I stated earlier in my opening 
statement, how I was given a 35-year sentence as opposed to a 
20-year sentence because of that disparity between those two 
drugs.
    We understand today, we understood as early as 2000, 2010, 
when it was lowered to 18 to 1, Chairman Durbin stated how the 
18 to 1 ratio just, he didn't say came out of thin air, but it 
came up with something that was acceptable before this 
Congress. But there needs to be no disparity between those two 
drugs. And----
    Senator Hirono. Yes. Thank you. I'm really sorry to 
interrupt you, but yes, I know that we need to do more 
sentencing reform. I'm sorry that you spent so many years in 
prison, but I thank you for participating.
    Mr. Smith, what is the next important thing that we should 
pursue? And I have less than 2 minutes, so if you could just 
make it very brief.
    Mr. C. Smith. I think we need to be smarter about how 
inmates earn diminution credits and get out. So, as we said, we 
don't just want a second look. We want the prison population to 
understand this is what they need to do in order to get out 
earlier, as opposed to just coming before a parole board 
saying, ``Hey, I've been here and haven't done anything 
wrong.'' Let's focus on, ``I've been here and I've done a lot 
of things right, and therefore, I'm reformed, I'm 
rehabilitated, and I am less likely to reoffend when I get out 
of prison.''
    Senator Hirono. Mr. Markle.
    Mr. Markle. I would say implementation. We have been doing 
the best we can with what we have. We need more resources, we 
need better policies. Our agency we work for sometimes isn't 
the most transparent to Congress, but what we need to do is 
provide you all with the information you need to pass the laws, 
and then we need to have the resources we need on the ground to 
actually implement those.
    Senator Hirono. Mr. Smith
    Mr. J. Smith. Yes, I would agree with Mr. Markle, that 
certainly more funding to implement the First Step Act, and 
being able to stand that up is going to help with further 
reducing recidivism. But I also think focusing on community 
supervision. I know that Mr. Cornyn mentioned legislation that 
he sponsored to reform our supervision, that also will help 
with recidivism. As you can imagine, with the First Step Act, a 
number of the individuals that recidivated was from technical 
violations, which we would need to reform in the Act; the 
Community Supervision Act actually does that work. And so I 
think that would be a excellent second step.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you. Thank you very much. Just one 
more point. We do have halfway houses for people who are coming 
out of prison. Do all of you acknowledge that that is an 
important step in having a person come back into the community, 
to have these kinds of places for them to go to within their 
own communities? Does anybody disagree with the importance of 
these halfway houses? Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thank Senator Hirono.
    Senator Cornyn. Mr. Chairman, may I make a unanimous 
consent request?
    Chair Durbin. Sure.
    Senator Cornyn. I'd like to ask unanimous consent that a 
statement from the National Association of Assistant United 
States Attorneys be made part of the record.
    Chair Durbin. Without objection.
    [The information appears as a submission for the record.]
    Senator Cornyn. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Lee, you're next.
    Senator Lee. Thanks so much, Mr. Chairman. I feel a great 
sense of pride at the fact that we're now marking the 5-year 
mark from the passage of the First Step Act. This was a huge 
event. It was a big accomplishment within Congress, but far 
more importantly, this is a huge development to the men and 
women who have benefited from it ever since then. Especially 
for those who are now able to go on and live peaceful, law-
abiding, meaningful lives with their families and in their 
communities.
    And it's a real testament to the wisdom of this bill that 
we've got you, Mr. Charles, here with us. I've really enjoyed 
getting to know you. I got to know you shortly after you were 
released from prison as the first individual to be released 
onto the First Step Act.
    And Ja'Ron, it's great to see you as always. And your work 
in the last administration was absolutely essential to getting 
this across the finish line. And of course, we have here today 
a number of Members of this Committee who were very involved in 
this measure. And it was a pleasure to work with the Chairman, 
with Senator Booker, with Senator Cornyn, and so many others 
who were part of the effort.
    This, of course, was not the beginning or the end. It did 
represent a culmination of many years of work together on both 
sides of the aisle until this finally got passed and signed 
into law by President Trump. And there was a lot of hard work 
that went into this effort on this Committee on both sides of 
the aisle.
    It's absolutely essential as we celebrate this milestone, 
Mr. Chairman, that we differentiate between this legislation 
and the overwhelmingly positive effects that it's had; that we 
differentiate this measure and what we celebrate from it, from 
something that's totally different from it, which it's often 
confused and can sometimes be mistaken.
    The violent crime wave sweeping across our country has 
absolutely nothing to do with the First Step Act. That is a 
wave that's caused by a completely independent force. Something 
having to do with prosecutors across the country who were just 
deciding not to prosecute entire swaths of crime, including 
some significant categories of violent crime, some of the most 
egregious offenses.
    And it's alarming to see the complete disregard that some 
prosecutors show for public safety in their deluded effort to 
advance some other kind of interest other than the rule of law 
by just promising not to prosecute entire categories of crime.
    Now, some have criticized the First Step Act for today's 
crimes, but that's real wildly inaccurate. The First Step Act, 
of course, does absolutely nothing to change the sentences 
applicable for violent crimes, as Mr. Smith said--Mr. Ja'Ron 
Smith, the First Step Act, ``is about developing and 
implementing a system in which nonviolent prisoners are given 
the incentive to improve their behavior and ultimately improve 
themselves, gaining the education and tools they'll need to 
succeed when they eventually do leave prison.''
    I couldn't agree more. And blaming the First Step Act for 
problems that are caused by deliberate prosecutorial inaction, 
is about the same as getting your cavity filled by your dentist 
one day, and the next day when your basement floods blaming 
your dentist for the flooding. The results of the First Step 
Act itself have been overwhelmingly positive.
    In August 2023, the Council on Criminal Justice released a 
report showing that individuals released under the First Step 
Act had a recidivism rate 37 percent lower than those released 
prior to the FSA were similarly situated. And even with the 
10,000 prisoners released under the FSA, FSA beneficiaries 
accounted for a minuscule portion. We're talking about 0.02 
percent of national arrests, two one hundredths of 1 percent of 
all national arrests.
    I meet regularly with First Step Act beneficiaries like 
Matthew Charles here, and including last month when I met with 
a group of entrepreneurs, homeowners--men and women who are now 
able to live with their families in their communities and lead 
very productive lives. And some folks, like Weldon Angelos, 
were facing life sentences or effective life sentences for 
nonviolent drug offenses.
    Mr. Angelos, of course, was what first sparked my attention 
in criminal justice reform when, back in 2004, he was sentenced 
to 55 years in prison for selling three dime bags of marijuana 
to what turned out to be an undercover reporter--someone 
working with the police--an undercover agent, a confidential 
informant.
    And because of the fact that he was charged for each of 
those dime bags sold over a 72 hour period, and because he had 
a gun on his person at the time of those transactions totaling 
no more than $350--a gun that was neither brandished nor 
discharged in connection with the offense--he was subject to 
the 924(c) stacking problem, where those were each treated as 
individual predicate offenses under the three strikes law, 
leading the Federal judge who sentenced him no choice but to 
give him 55 years.
    Judge Paul Cassell himself, a former Federal prosecutor, 
hardly known as minimum Cassell, not somebody known as being 
soft on crime, made the unusual step of issuing an opinion 
disagreeing with the sentence he was about to impose. He said, 
``There are rapists, there are murderers, hijackers, terrorists 
who don't get this much time in prison. And yet, I, as a 
Federal district judge, have no choice but to send you away to 
prison for 55 years.'' And then he said something that would 
haunt me ever since then; he said, ``Only Congress can solve 
this problem.''
    And so that's what got me involved in this effort. And what 
got me originally working with Senator Durbin after I got to 
the Senate. I'm grateful to him and so many others who worked 
hard on this effort. But the work is not done. One of many 
problems that we've got with the 924(c) stacking problem, we 
fixed it prospectively in the First Step Act, still needs to be 
fixed retrospectively.
    Mr. Angelos is out of prison only because President Obama 
commuted his sentence, and President Trump later pardoned him. 
But there's a lot left to be done, and I look forward to doing 
that. Thank you very much.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Lee. And I thank you 
personally for working so assiduously on this problem, having 
seen it firsthand. Thank you very much. Senator Booker.
    Senator Booker. Thanks so much. First of all, thank you 
all, everybody in the panel for being here. It means a lot to 
me. Steve, can I start with you? Just because you have so much 
insight. I can't tell you how much benefit I get of visiting 
Federal prisons, State prisons, jails, and actually turning to 
the people that work there every day. And it's amazing the 
wisdom that they have about just commonsense solutions and 
ideas.
    One of the things that concerns me is the practical impact 
of the staffing shortages going on right now and what that 
means for incarcerated individuals as well as, frankly, the 
safety and well-being of the people that work. What can you 
give us in terms of insights about what we should be doing 
about that problem?
    Mr. Markle. Well, I appreciate that Senator. Our number one 
concern, and it has been for years, is not filling the 
correctional officer positions that we've been appropriated 
through Congress. I throw some numbers out there, and you know, 
right now we are 8,000 correctional officers short from what 
was appropriated from Congress. That's where it all starts.
    If we don't fill the correctional officer positions then we 
don't have the first line security in our institutions to 
protect inmates and staff. But it also affects the programming 
for First Step Act because we're constantly pulling teachers, 
recreation specialists, case managers, counselors, out of their 
primary jobs of actually, you know, working to reduce 
recidivism and First Step Act programming, and we're actually 
utilizing them to fill a correction officer spot.
    That's where it has to stop right there. If we can fix the 
staffing crisis we have, I think this program will just 
flourish in the future.
    Senator Booker. Yes. And that's frustrating to me that we 
have this wisdom. We know what's working, but we're not filling 
spots. Number one, I think is a safety issue for correctional 
officers as well as for inmates. But then the other thing is, 
it's failing. It's undermining the implementation of the First 
Step Act.
    Another thing I always do when I visit facilities is, I 
turn to both people that work there as correctional officers 
and wardens. I always ask them the question, ``Are there people 
in this institution that are wasting taxpayer dollars and 
really shouldn't be here?'' And even the toughest wardens or 
correctional officers look at me and say, ``Absolutely, yes.''
    And one of those populations is just the elderly, that 
folks that have been there for years, sometimes decades, and 
there's legislation that is talking about ways to get those 
folks who really have aged, who are costing taxpayers even more 
money because there's lots of costs associated with their age. 
Would you agree with that conclusion?
    Mr. Markle. I believe it's unique to the individuals that 
we're talking about. I believe that there's a certain percent 
of the populations that fall within that category. There's a 
certain percent, based on their sentencing that they've had 
before, that wouldn't.
    But I think if the empirical data would support it, then 
it's something that should be looked at. I can't say that the 
elderly population, they don't cause any of the issues we have 
in Federal prisons as far as discipline and other issues, but I 
would say it's probably lower than the rest of the prison 
population.
    Senator Booker. Right. And there's some pilot programs that 
are showing a lot of promise in this case. I think some work 
that we should do together. Real quick, there are a lot of 
actually interesting pilot programs going on in our Federal 
prisons, and in some State prisons, I know, you know, a lot of 
them from agricultural farming work to work with animals and 
care.
    If you could see some of the pilot programs that you know 
about off the top of your head and say, ``Gosh, if Congress 
would just expand this successful program, it would have such 
an impact on the working conditions of the people, of 
correctional officers, and the well-being and eventual success 
of incarcerated individuals.'' What are some things that come 
to mind when I ask that question?
    Mr. Markle. I think vocational programs through education 
are the most important. It's important to have more vocational 
because as people progress through GED and they graduate, they 
can move on to those. But those individuals that already have 
high school diplomas and may already have GEDs, they can take 
those immediately upon being incarcerated. I think those hands-
on experiences where you get firsthand knowledge on some sort 
of a trade that you can take with you later on, I think those 
are the most important.
    I work at FCC Terre Haute, and they just started a rescue 
dog program. And it's flourishing so far, they want to expand 
it. And I think that those are the type of programs that are 
very beneficial, not only to the inmates involved, but to 
communities around the prisons as well.
    Senator Booker. And all the data I've seen shows a dollar 
invested in just need simple education program--GED, BA, 
graduate degrees--returns to the taxpayers a lot in terms of 
dropping the recidivism rates. It's a smart investment of 
money. And for us, again, to ban people from getting Pell 
Grants, for example, it seems like a nonsensical waste of a 
taxpayer opportunity. You would agree?
    Mr. Markle. When I started, there was Pell Grants still, 
and I have nothing negative to say about that. I think the more 
benefits we give, and the more availability we have for inmates 
to provide any type of education or receive any type of 
education is important. As long as the Bureau of Prisons and 
the staff implement it, the resources are there on our side of 
the table too. That's the most important part.
    Senator Booker. Yes. I thank you. And again, to everybody 
sitting there, friends of mine now, just thank you all for the 
continued work and the testimony you given today. And I just 
think it underlines the question I was giving, just that 
there's still so much low hanging fruit in terms of things we 
should just get done, like chip shots, I would say foul shots. 
I just don't know, Chairman, whether you are good at that or 
not, but, so I'll say layups as well.
    Chair Durbin. Layups, yes.
    Senator Booker. Layups, okay.
    [Laughter.]
    Chair Durbin. Thanks a lot, Senator Booker. Senator Welch.
    Senator Welch. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I 
want to thank Senator Booker and Senator Lee for their great 
work on this. I was a public defender in Vermont, and so many 
of my clients had mental health issues, some were homeless. And 
it was as though, I mean, you've heard this before, but in 
frustration in our inability to address issues of mental 
health, a lot of those folks ended up in the prison system and 
then had a hard time getting out.
    I'll ask all of you, what do we do about that? I think the 
First Step Act has been incredibly helpful in acknowledging 
that there's some folks who really are good to be getting back 
out on the street. But talk to me about how we can have the 
criminal justice system not be the mental health system of last 
resort. I'll start with the prosecutor here.
    Mr. C. Smith. Thank you, Senator. We implemented in 
Frederick County a mental health court about three years ago. I 
think the specialty courts are critically important because you 
take a look at a segment of the population, the offending 
population, and again, you try to figure out, why are they 
offending? That it's crime fighting.
    What people don't realize is--they feel like mental health 
courts sort of soft-on-crime type of stuff, but it truly is 
crime fighting. You're preventing these people from re-
offending and therefore preventing crime from reoccurring. So I 
do believe that mental health courts, where you get people who 
are not lawyers but are mental health providers and clinicians 
in the process, so that they can determine what's best for this 
person. And again, once again, be strategic in terms of the 
offender and preventing further offense.
    Senator Welch. Well, thank you. You know, the one thing 
that's so frustrating about that is that if a person has like 
an addiction problem, that is tough for them to address, and 
it's not as though a lecture's going to do it and they're going 
to elapse and relapse. But we still seem in this country, much 
more than any other countries, to rely on the prison system to 
be the place in the criminal justice system, be the place where 
we somehow quote, ``address those issues.''
    I'll ask Mr. Charles your thoughts on that since you have 
some incredible experience of being on the losing side of that.
    Mr. Charles. I agree with Mr. Smith. There needs to be more 
mental health courts, and----
    Senator Welch. Can you put your microphone a little closer? 
I can't quite hear you.
    Mr. Charles. Thank you. I said, I agree with Mr. Smith. 
There needs to be more mental health courts, and we do know 
that addiction and mental health sometimes play hand in hand. 
And oftentimes, because what we call the justice system is 
punitive in nature, it doesn't distinguish between a person 
that has an addiction or mental illness. All it sees is the 
crime that actually committed.
    Senator Welch. Thank you.
    Mr. Charles. And I've been in prison for 22 years, and I 
can clearly say that no mental health treatment behind bars is 
sufficient for some of these people that have addictions and 
mental illness problems. So I think that, of course I believe 
that people should be held accountable for the crimes they 
commit, but they need to receive treatment along with the 
sentence or treatment as opposed to the sentence and that's it.
    Senator Welch. Thank you.
    Mr. Charles. Because behind bars, they only get worse, not 
better.
    Senator Welch. And that gets us back to Senator Booker's 
concern about the staffing in order to be able to provide 
treatment or vocational training that we addressed.
    Mr. Smith, I want to thank you for the good work you did in 
your previous position in the last administration. One of the 
things that happened during the pandemic, as you know, is that 
there was a significant increase in the use of home 
confinement. That's become very controversial. And to some 
extent it's controversial because there is understandable 
apprehension as to whether certain offenders can be trusted and 
the public can be safe.
    To some extent, it's a view that people want more punitive 
action than, quote, ``home confinement.'' But my understanding 
is that home confinement, by and large was quite successful. 
What are your thoughts on that?
    Mr. J. Smith. Well, I think you may be alluding to the 
Cares Act----
    Senator Welch. That's right.
    Mr. J. Smith [continuing]. Which allowed a number of 
Federal individuals to spend time at home confinement. And it 
has been very successful. Former Attorney General Barr set 
great criteria of who qualified for that home confinement, and 
the recidivism rate for those individuals is less than 1 
percent. It's extremely low. And we've saved a lot of money for 
the Federal prisons, which we can use those dollars to invest 
in the current infrastructure and implementation of the First 
Step Act.
    And so I think we should certainly continue down that road. 
And I also want to mention on the mental health piece, you 
know, I'm working with organization called Care Solace. I think 
it's a critical thing as a country that we need to invest into 
mental health infrastructure. That is a crime prevention piece 
because a lot of people who end up in the prison system is 
because of trauma backgrounds and lack of mental health and 
drug abuse. And our ability to kind of set up that 
infrastructure is critically important. So, working with local 
mayors to do that would be helpful.
    Senator Welch. Thank you very much. Thank you. I yield 
back, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Welch. Are you ready or--
Senator Butler? Senator Butler.
    Senator Butler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you to 
my senior Senator for allowing me to engage the panel. Thank 
you all so much for the work that you have done. You did it 
before I arrived. And to be here to listen to the 
implementation on the success of the hard work of my colleagues 
is really inspiring for a new Senator like me who's excited and 
urgent about continuing the important work that has preceded 
me.
    Mr. Charles, if it's okay, I'd love to start with you. 
Thank you for sharing your story. And you received a lot of 
attention, and your case received a lot of attention from my 
famous constituents, Ms. Kardashian and others who helped raise 
the awareness of the country of not just your story as you've 
spoken, but to the stories of many others who have been in your 
shoes.
    After your release, you could have chosen to have a quiet 
life and none of us would've faulted you for that. Instead, 
you've decided that you're going to channel your experiences to 
speak out in support of criminal justice reform, and we all owe 
you a deep debt of gratitude for doing that.
    I noticed that you have joined local lawmakers and criminal 
justice reform advocates in Tennessee to discuss legislation 
that would automatically restore voting rights for people with 
felony convictions. And as we think about and are listening in 
this panel, both in recognition but also soliciting ideas for 
what is next, can you talk with us about the importance of 
restoring voting rights and what you have seen and heard, and 
why this is a place where you have invested your activism?
    Mr. Charles. I would say that whenever it comes to 
restoring voting rights, there's so many different collateral 
consequences due to incarceration, and one of them shouldn't be 
to lose your right to vote. I believe that right should be for 
everybody, especially those that are no longer in prison or on 
any type of supervision.
    But to turn around and say that this person is ineligible 
to be able to vote is to say that he can't be effective in his 
community, although he's trying to do everything that he 
positively can to be a part of the community. So I think, and 
also, you know, just restoring the dignity of an individual who 
has shown that he has substantially made changes in his own 
life, and he'd like to be part of the elected process.
    And there are representatives that have those same goals 
and interests that he share, but sometimes he's not able to 
vote for those individuals, just like in the State of 
Tennessee, and you talked about it in the restoration of the 
voting rights. There are some problems in regards to that 
because it's so complex.
    It makes a person jump through so many hurdles that even 
trying to get your voting rights restored starts like a task 
too complex for an individual, especially with limited 
knowledge of government, or how to achieve such a purpose to go 
through, you know, continue on and try to get their voting 
rights restored.
    So, I think that it needs to be simply, if you served your 
time, especially if you're not on any type of supervision 
anymore, and you are now contributing to society, then you need 
to be able to also vote on whatever elected official, whether 
local or national.
    Senator Butler. Thank you so much, and again, thank you for 
your activism and your continued commitment to this work. Mr. 
Smith--at the other Mr. Smith, I'd love to direct this my last 
question because of time to you. Thank you so much for being a 
part of today's conversation. You're showing so many young 
people who may believe that bipartisan work is impossible that, 
indeed, when we find common cause and we pursue it vigorously, 
that this is a model of government, and our democracy can truly 
work. And so your presence alone is so meaningful. Let me ask 
my question.
    You, on a recent panel, talked about the most ingredient 
being, quote, unquote, ``creating trust,'' and I think that 
that is so essential. You went on to say that, ``It's hard to 
navigate the contours of politics and people's differences, but 
it's even harder if there's no trust there to have a difficult 
conversation on what good looks like and what's a real win.'' 
Such a powerful comment.
    You did a lot of work, as been acknowledged by many of my 
colleagues, on helping to pass this incredibly important 
legislation. Let me ask you, how can trust, in your opinion, be 
restored to get to the next version of this great legislation?
    Mr. J. Smith. Sure. So I think the biggest thing is you 
have to, one, be very intentional of not letting the perfect be 
the enemy of the good. You have to understand that like--there 
are areas of common ground, and in achieving those areas of 
common ground, having the openness of discussion with people 
who may have differences of opinion.
    And so being intentional about trying to figure out where 
that bridge is, is a very important point. But then once you're 
trying to create that bridge is also being in a position to 
have a conversation of good faith, and that's why that trust 
piece is so important. You know, in many cases, even 
negotiating the First Step Act with a number of the Senators 
that are on this Committee, you know, the trust wasn't there on 
the front end.
    But the fact that we had something in common like a North 
Star that we all wanted to achieve, that allowed for us to have 
that conversation on good faith, and that good faith 
conversation allowed us to be very honest about the issue. And 
then figuring out how we can get to yes on both sides by 
learning about what we may have differences about, what are the 
red lines.
    And so it's extremely important. But it takes time and 
focus in order for us to get there and leadership, you know, 
having all the Senators' leadership, the President's 
leadership, allowed to facilitate that type of conversation.
    Senator Padilla [presiding]. Thank you. Senator Hawley.
    Senator Hawley. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thanks 
to all of the witnesses for being here. I've been enjoying 
listening to your testimony as I've been back and forth to 
other hearings. But thank you, thank you all for being here. 
I'm going to be a bit of a dissenting voice today. I'll be 
honest with you, the passage of the First Step Act predates me 
in the Senate. This happened before I came, so I wasn't 
involved in any of the negotiations, and I didn't get to vote 
for it one way or another, and I certainly thank you for all 
the hard work, those of you who are involved with it that did.
    But I have to tell you, I've got major concerns with--with 
how it is playing out, and particularly when it comes to 
fentanyl. You know, my State, like I think every other State, 
sadly in the country, is in the midst of a major fentanyl 
epidemic. I mean, just a major fentanyl epidemic. It is the 
number one cause of death in the State of Missouri for young 
people who are over the age of 18--between 18 and 30-32, by 
some margin.
    And it's just getting worse. If you go and talk to any law 
enforcement official in the State of Missouri--and I had the 
privilege of working with them all over the State when I was 
the State's attorney general--they will tell you that our 
communities in Missouri, all of them, rural, urban, doesn't 
matter, are just awash in drugs, and fentanyl in particular, 
worse and worse and worse.
    So I've got serious, serious concerns about how this law is 
playing out with respect to fentanyl in particular. And I just 
want to put a few things on the record. You know, number one is 
we've got 190 people a day in the United States who die of 
fentanyl overdose. Another Senate Committee just heard 
testimony on this last week. That is, as one witness said at 
that Committee hearing, that's like a 737 crashing every single 
day. And again, that is happening in my State.
    And what the First Step Act has done with regard to drug 
offenses, including fentanyl, is the following: It limited the 
application of enhanced penalties for serious drug offenses. It 
dramatically cut back on the use of mandatory minimums for 
serious drug offenses. Number three, it drastically scaled back 
punishments for repeat drug offenders.
    And the U.S. Sentencing Commission that tracks this data, 
has found now that enhanced sentences for repeat offenders has 
gone down by more than 33 percent since the First Step Act was 
implemented. And all of that combines to effectively decrease 
big time the penalties for fentanyl.
    And then when you add in the fact that the current 
President's Sentencing Commission has gone even further--the 
Sentencing Commission, now tracking again, sentences for 
fentanyl--found that the average fentanyl trafficking 
sentence--so not possession, not possession--trafficking, the 
average trafficking sentence has gone down by more than 12 
months over the last 5 years, the average sentence.
    And more than a third of fentanyl offenders receive a 
downward variance from their recommended sentence. Again, 
that's trafficking, that's not possession. So my concern is 
that, at a time when we've got record amounts of fentanyl 
coming over the border--27,000 pounds were seized last year; 
that's hundreds of millions of doses--the DEA estimates that 
20,000 pounds of fentanyl would be enough for 800 million 
lethal doses. That's 860 percent more seized last year than in 
2019.
    And that's just the amount that was interdicted. Who knows 
how much actually got through. At a time when we are just awash 
with this, the effect of the First Step Act, when it comes to 
fentanyl, has been to give traffickers and repeat offenders a 
pass. And I just think that that is a huge, huge problem. And I 
know in my State it is having hugely detrimental effects. So, 
you know, I know Mr. Smith--Charles Smith, you're a prosecutor. 
In fact, right now, you're the president of the National 
District Attorney's Association, I think. Is that correct?
    Mr. C. Smith. Yes, Senator. That is correct.
    Senator Hawley. Yes. Well, thank you for your tremendous 
work. And again, thank you all for being here. And thank you 
for your tremendous work in that connection. You're on the 
front lines, and believe me, I appreciate you. The people in 
Missouri appreciate our attorneys; we call them prosecutors, 
attorneys in Missouri. And just appreciate the tremendous work 
that you do and I salute your work, and I salute all of you on 
the panel.
    I just want to say for my part as a former prosecutor, I'm 
concerned by the position we're putting prosecutors in. I'm 
concerned, most of all though, by the position we're putting 
kids and families in by allowing repeat trafficking serious 
offenders to get lighter, lesser sentences. And I'm concerned 
about the effects this is having on safety in my State, on 
overdoses in my State. And I hope that there's something that 
we can do about this in the future. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Padilla. Senator Whitehouse.
    Senator Whitehouse. Thanks, Chairman. And thanks to the 
witnesses for being here. I put a lot of work into the First 
Step Act, and so I'm keenly interested in seeing too its proper 
implementation.
    If you don't mind, Mr. Markle, I'll begin with you. It's my 
understanding that the recidivism rate for incarcerated people 
who have been released through the First Step Act's reentry 
program, is considerably lower than the general population. The 
numbers I've seen is about 12.5 percent recidivism versus 43 
percent recidivism. So more than a three times reduction.
    And yet we've also heard that it's been hard for the Bureau 
of Prisons to implement this and to expand the programs as the 
bill expected because of staffing issues that have pulled 
people away from this particular work. Could you describe that 
situation to us so we've got it accurately from the BOP?
    Mr. Markle. Absolutely. And the Council of Prison Locals, 
we represent the correctional workers inside the facilities. 
And what ends up happening is we have our rosters in place 
every day that we need a certain percent or a certain number of 
correctional officers to safely run an institution. What 
happens is our staffing compliment has been reduced so far 
below what was appropriated by Congress. We're nearly 8,000 
correctional officers short from what was appropriated through 
Congress.
    So what happens on a daily basis is we still have to 
maintain safety and security first. So they pull people out of 
the programming area, such as education, psychology, 
recreation, and case managers, counselors, the people that are 
hands-on every day to do the First Step Act. They're pulled 
from their primary positions, and they're placed in a position 
to be a correctional officer because we have to maintain a safe 
and secure institution first.
    Senator Whitehouse. So they get pulled off so they can go 
stand post in the facilities.
    Mr. Markle. Absolutely. You're working the position as a 
correctional officer. So, if I go in as a teacher, I could be 
stopped on my way in and they say, you're not going to 
education today. You're going to go to a housing unit. You're 
going to be a correctional officer. Therefore, the programs are 
just shut down. The inmates are idle. And we're reducing the 
total number of staff that we have in the institution each day.
    Senator Whitehouse. Well, thank you for your work. I've 
worked for a long time with the Brotherhood of Corrections 
Officers in Rhode Island, who say, quite accurately, that they 
work the toughest beat in the State. And I appreciate the work 
that you all do, and thank you for explaining that for us.
    Mr. Smith, Rhode Island has had a lot of success 
encouraging participation in programs that reduce recidivism, 
primarily at our State incarcerated facility, the ACI. And now 
with this program, we're seeing the Federal facilities 
beginning to catch up. At this point, more than 100,000 people 
have participated in these activities, and as I mentioned, the 
recidivism rate seems to be responding very powerfully.
    We got here because of a lot of support from law 
enforcement. And I want to take a moment to thank you for all 
of that and to ask you if there's anything that, from a 
prosecutor's perspective, you'd care to add. Is this working? 
Are there improvements? What would you like to see?
    Mr. C. Smith. Well, certainly it's working because the data 
says it's working. And that's what we as prosecutors try to do, 
is be strategic in our approach to public safety. We do it with 
the prosecution of crime. We determine which cases we're going 
to divert away from the criminal justice system. We have very 
vibrant diversion programs across the United States in our 
prosecutor offices, whether it's a juvenile diversion program, 
a drug diversion program, because once again, we're taking a 
look at the difference between good people making bad decisions 
and bad people making bad decisions.
    We're diverting the good people, which apparently is what 
you're doing in Rhode Island, and we're giving them 
opportunity. We're also identifying them for early release 
because they are rehabilitated and less likely to reoffend. And 
those people who are violent, who pose a threat to public 
safety and pose a threat to reoffend, we're keeping in jail for 
their full sentence.
    So, I would applaud Rhode Island. And I think Rhode Island 
is no different from the rest of the States in the United 
States and the prosecutors in that. We're just taking a look at 
how we can be better. A lot of people use the word reform. I 
just like improvement. I don't think we have to throw the baby 
out with the bath water. We're not trying to tear down 
everything that we've done. We're just trying to get better at 
it. And I applaud you, Senator, for your work on the First Step 
Act. And we're--at NDAA, we're more than happy to join forces 
with you and other law enforcement partners in the future.
    Senator Whitehouse. Much appreciated. I'll put another 
little Rhode Island flag in the ground here. Many, many years 
ago, we established a drug court quite early on that is now 
very established, very successful. We've also established a 
Veteran's Court, and we're working on a mental health court as 
well. And the last time I went to one of these was to visit the 
Veteran's Court.
    And I'll tell you, having been a prosecutor and having seen 
what it's like when an individual is marched out the back of 
the courtroom, shackled, and in the arms of the security folks, 
and the courtroom is quiet, but for the sounds of family 
members sobbing, it is a very different feeling than when you 
get to the Veteran's Court, graduations, they call them. And 
the families have come to cheer on the veteran, the veteran's 
community has come out enforced because there are really 
significant veteran's programs that can come to the aid of 
veterans and to get them on a really good path.
    There's a very impressive community of veterans who 
essentially staff the Veterans Court and interact with the 
individuals who've been charged and then sent to the Veteran's 
Court. And then there's very good tracking afterwards to make 
sure that they don't recidivate, they continue on the path that 
they've been shown through the Veteran's Court activities.
    And there's balloons sometimes, there's cake sometimes, 
their kids come dressed up, you know, girls in fancy dresses to 
come and see, like, dad graduate. And once you've seen that, it 
leaves an impression that's very hard to forget. We are doing 
good here, and I thank you.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you, Senator Whitehouse. I want to 
take a moment to also thank the witnesses for joining us today 
and for your testimony and participation. I think it's 
important for you to be here so we can highlight the successes 
of the First Step Act, which has made not just the public 
safer, but our criminal justice system more fair. And I 
appreciate Chairman Durbin scheduling this hearing for today.
    So, as we celebrate the achievement and the successes, it 
is also critical that we look forward to opportunities for 
continuing to improve the system as Mr. Smith referenced just a 
minute ago. And surely we do have plenty of work that remains 
to be done. Now, prior to the Step Act, only the Bureau of 
Prisons had the statutory authority to petition the court to 
resentence an offender. However, this authority was rarely 
used. From 2013 to 2017, the Bureau received 5,400 requests 
roughly for compassionate release and approved 6 percent.
    Under the First Step Act, incarcerated individuals may take 
it upon themselves in limited circumstances to petition for 
their own early release. My question is for Mr. Charles Smith: 
Can you describe the impact this policy change has had on 
incarcerated individuals, them knowing that they now have this 
option and opportunity?
    Mr. C. Smith. Once again we need to give incentive for 
people to change, to be rehabilitated. As Mr. Charles noted to 
my right, he was given a lot of those opportunities and took 
advantage of all those opportunities. So I keep saying we need 
to be strategic, but we do. We have to take a look at what 
policies promote someone to be rehabilitated and to not 
reoffend. And we need to get better at that. Under the old 
system, it was just, you know, ``Hey, I did my time. I'm coming 
up before the parole board. I didn't do anything wrong, so let 
me out.''
    And once again, I think the FSA went a long way towards 
giving--incentivizing a lack of re-offending. And so once 
again, I just wanted to applaud all the Senators that had a 
hand in enacting this and passing it. And I think that, again, 
we can fine tune it. I heard you know the good Senator talk 
about some provisions in it that perhaps he believes are being 
abused. But once again, every piece of legislation is not 
perfect. Sometimes we just have to fine-tune it after we've did 
the first step and maybe the second step, we'll fine-tune it, 
make it better.
    Senator Padilla. Exactly. And so in that spirit, when it 
comes to compassionate release, do you believe it's being 
adequately and equitably used today? Or any suggestions on how 
to improve upon it and make it better?
    Mr. C. Smith. You know, I do have a couple--we do see abuse 
of the Compassionate Release Program. It's not rampant, but 
there are people that are trying to take advantage of it, and 
that's just going to happen with any population, inside of a 
prison or outside for that matter. But I do believe that there 
are circumstances that we as prosecutors have consented to the 
compassionate release, especially with the elderly, especially 
with the ill.
    But I guess we, again--I would want to see the data points. 
What is it that's being looked at in terms of compassionate 
release to assure that that those people truly that should be 
getting it, are getting it.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you. My next question's going to be 
for Mr. Charles, but let me preface it with the following. You 
know, when we discuss these rehabilitation programs and 
government efforts to create more just sentencing laws, we 
often talk about individuals who will directly benefit from 
these programs, these reforms, these improvements, if you will.
    But there are also substantial benefits when communities 
see the criminal justice system committed to prioritizing 
safety and carrying out fair and equal justice. Mr. Charles how 
do you believe fair sentencing practices impact communities, 
not just the individual?
    Mr. Charles. Thank you, sir. I definitely do. The fact 
that--I'm just going to go back to the war against drugs, when 
there were receiving 100-to-1 sentences for crack cocaine 
versus powder cocaine. A lot of communities of color--I don't 
just want to say that that disparity is not justified, but it's 
also racially disparate, and a lot of communities of color that 
have been ravaged due to drug activity that have taken place in 
those communities, and their loved ones have been sentenced to 
sentences anywhere from 30 years to life, when people who sold 
the same drug, but not in other words, the type of drug, ended 
up receiving a lesser sentence than their loved ones.
    So a lot of times people see that and they be like, well, 
the justice system isn't fair. When I was sentenced, I didn't 
necessarily believe that the justice system was fair. I 
understood that I should be held accountable for breaking the 
law, and I was, and I received a 35-year sentence based on what 
the law was at that time.
    But as I review my sentence and reflect on the fact that 
someone that just sold powder cocaine would've received a 
sentence 15 years less than what I received, then that's not 
fair. And communities of color have seen this, and they have 
seen heavy police. Now, we believe in policing and preventing 
crime, but communities of color oftentimes are heavily policed.
    And whenever the law that they're being sentenced to is not 
necessarily favorable to people in these conditions or people 
of color, then that sets a stage for them to believe that the 
law isn't fair. So I would say anytime that we can reform laws 
that are not fair to make them more fair or repeal those laws, 
then it's always going to be better for the community. And 
community is going to be satisfied as far as their loved ones 
returning home and feel within themselves that the justice 
system is trying to be fairer.
    Senator Padilla. That does impact the fundamental public 
confidence in the justice system which is important. Welcome 
Senator Klobuchar, you're up next.
    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Senator Padilla. 
Thank you, all of you that you're here to talk about our 
progress after 5 years. I was honored to be here and support 
the First Step Act and work on some of the provisions. So, this 
is a really big deal, and I want to start with you, Mr. Smith.
    I was former member of the District Attorney's Association, 
as you know, and I also know that supportive prosecutors across 
the country, not every single one of them, but your association 
was really important in getting this done. And talk about why 
that was? As prosecutors, I think that kind of jars people 
sometimes, but one of the things I would always argue is, you 
know, we're not like a business in every way in a prosecutor's 
office, in that we don't want to see repeat customers.
    We want people to be able to go on with their lives like 
Mr. Charles has done. And could you just talk about the 
importance of the reduction of recidivism?
    Mr. C. Smith. Senator, I referenced before about crime 
fighting, and I think that the general public sometimes thinks 
these measures are soft on crime, and they're not. This is just 
a different form of crime fighting. Crime prevention is just as 
important to protecting the public, as taking the person who 
committed the crime off the street. And so we were in support 
of the First Step Act because it was common sense, it was 
practical stuff that targeted low risk offenders through proven 
data points, and the numbers bear out. You guys did a great 
job. I mean, look at the recidivism rate. 46 percent. I mean, 
that's incredible. There's no one that can argue with those 
numbers.
    Senator Klobuchar. Right. So you've got the--it was the 
Justice Department numbers that nearly 30,000 who were released 
under the First Step Act, only 12 percent recidivated compared 
to the overall Bureau of Prison recidivism rate, which is more 
than 46 percent. That's correct. Right?
    Mr. C. Smith. Yes, correct. So, once again, we as 
prosecutors take our oath to protect the public very seriously. 
But I think sometimes we just get a bad rap. I mean, it seems 
like half of the people think we're too tough on people, we're 
putting everybody in crime. Then you got the other half of the 
people that are saying, ``Oh, you know, you're too soft. You're 
letting people out too early.''
    But we thought at NDAA, the First Step Act struck a great 
balance. And it proofed out with the data.
    Senator Klobuchar. Yes. Mr. Charles thank you so much for 
being here and sharing your experience. For years, Senator 
Cornyn and I led the One Stop Shop Community Reentry Program 
Act to help former inmates reintegrate into their communities 
by creating resource centers that help them find jobs, housing, 
mental health services, substance abuse treatment.
    For years before I was a DA, I actually was involved in a 
volunteer program called Amicus and visited a woman at the 
women's prison for nearly 10 years. And I just saw this need 
when you're there every single month and get to know someone 
for what the plan is when they get out. So, could you talk 
about, as someone who works to get inmates ready to reintegrate 
into their communities, can you talk about the importance of 
ensuring that people continue to have access to recidivism 
reduction programs when they're released from custody?
    Mr. Charles. Thank you, Senator. And I also want to thank 
you for your work in reentry. Having reentry resources 
available once a person is released is vital to them being 
successful. I myself ran into hurdles when I was released. I 
couldn't find housing, and because I couldn't find housing, my 
stability was weakened. But thankfully I had a friend who 
allowed me to stay with them for about four months until I was 
able to get my footing.
    So, being able to have these reentry resources available 
for those that are returning to society allows them to have the 
support so that they can be productive, so that they can go on 
and be successful in their lives and in the lives of their 
family members. So, without those things, including the 
programs that are now placed in the prison because of the First 
Step Act, allows those people to be able to learn vocational 
educational skills and trades so that once they are released, 
they will be able to find employment.
    So, those hurdles that most people run into once they're 
released from incarceration is housing, is employment, is 
transportation. So if the resources are available or 
organizations that are available that provide those things, 
that person is less likely to recidivate.
    Senator Klobuchar. Exactly. Last question, Mr. Markle. You 
served special education teacher for the Bureau of Prisons--
thank you for that--for over 20 years. And talk about--I know 
there's some waitlists as we look at these numbers, which I 
just discussed with Mr. Smith that are so positive--but talk 
about how waitlists to access First Step Act educational 
programs could negatively impact the goals of the Act and what 
Congress can do to improve the implementation. I know you 
talked a little bit about these programs with Senator Booker, 
but if you could talk about specifically waitlists.
    Mr. Markle. Thank you, Senator. With the implementation of 
the First Step Act, obviously education and programming and 
everything that we do became very popular. So obviously inmates 
wanted to be involved in programs that sometimes had been 
forgotten. We've always done GED and Special Education, but 
it's now emphasized by the First Step Act. So we can fill what 
we can fill with the amount of teachers that we have, the 
amount of staff and resources we have, we fill the classes up.
    When we're able to be in the actual classrooms teaching and 
not being pulled to different assignments, we do our best to 
move through those. So inmates are on waiting lists. Some 
additions were made to where they are receiving credit for 
being on waitlist, but that's a problem too, because an inmate 
is not receiving the actual programming or the benefits from 
the First Step Act, but they're still earning the credits.
    So the biggest problem is it's just we need the resources 
and the staff to continue push forward to eliminate the 
waitlist and actually get people into classrooms so they can 
receive the benefits from the First Step Act.
    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you. And thank you as well, Mr. 
Smith, for your work. I have to head out, but I'll send you a 
question in writing. I'm sure it'll be very exciting. So thank 
you.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you. And that concludes questions 
from the Members of the Committee for today. On behalf of 
Chairman Durbin, I want to express again our appreciation for 
all the witnesses appearing before the Committee today.
    As we discussed, the landmark First Step Act reimagined 
rehabilitation and public safety in our criminal justice 
system.
    But there's more work to be done. Congress can and should 
take more steps to reduce recidivism and direct resources to 
address the root causes of criminality. I hope this hearing has 
highlighted what Congress can accomplish when we're willing to 
tackle difficult problems and work together to find solutions.
    The hearing record will remain open for 1 week for 
submission of materials for the record, including follow-up 
questions from Members of the Senate. We'd ask that you all 
reply as quickly as you can.
    Senator Padilla. And with that, our hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:02 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
    [Additional material submitted for the record follows.]

                            A P P E N D I X

Submitted by Senator Cornyn:

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