[Senate Hearing 118-425]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                       S. Hrg. 118-425


                   REAUTHORIZATION OF THE NATIONAL FLOOD 
                    INSURANCE PROGRAM: IMPROVING COMMU-
                    NITY RESILIENCE

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                   BANKING,HOUSING,AND URBAN AFFAIRS
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                                   ON

          EXAMINING THE REAUTHORIZATION OF THE NATIONAL FLOOD 
                               INSURANCE PROGRAM

                               __________

                              MAY 2, 2023

                               __________

  Printed for the use of the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban 
                                Affairs
                                
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                Available at: https: //www.govinfo.gov /

                                __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
56-952 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------  

            COMMITTEE ON BANKING, HOUSING, AND URBAN AFFAIRS

                       SHERROD BROWN, Ohio, Chair

JACK REED, Rhode Island              TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey          MIKE CRAPO, Idaho
JON TESTER, Montana                  MIKE ROUNDS, South Dakota
MARK R. WARNER, Virginia             THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts      JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland           BILL HAGERTY, Tennessee
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada       CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming
TINA SMITH, Minnesota                J.D. VANCE, Ohio
KYRSTEN SINEMA, Arizona              KATIE BOYD BRITT, Alabama
RAPHAEL G. WARNOCK, Georgia          KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania         STEVE DAINES, Montana

                     Laura Swanson, Staff Director

               Lila Nieves-Lee, Republican Staff Director

                       Elisha Tuku, Chief Counsel

                  Amber Beck, Republican Chief Counsel

                      Cameron Ricker, Chief Clerk

                      Shelvin Simmons, IT Director

                       Pat Lally, Assistant Clerk



                                  (ii)

                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                          TUESDAY, MAY 2, 2023

                                                                   Page

Opening statement of Chair Brown.................................     1
        Prepared statement.......................................    27

Opening statements, comments, or prepared statements of:
    Senator Scott................................................     3
        Prepared statement.......................................    28

                               WITNESSES

Carolyn Kousky, Associate Vice President for Economics and 
  Policy, Environmental Defense Fund.............................     5
    Prepared statement...........................................    29
    Responses to written questions of:
        Chair Brown..............................................    43
        Senator Warnock..........................................    43
Roy E. Wright, President and CEO, Insurance Institute for 
  Business and Home Safety.......................................     7
    Prepared statement...........................................    36
Patty Hernandez, Executive Director, Headwaters Economics........     9
    Prepared statement...........................................    40
    Responses to written questions of:
        Chair Brown..............................................    44
        Senator Warnock..........................................    45

              Additional Material Supplied for the Record

Statement submitted by ICBA......................................    47
Letter submitted by CUNA.........................................    49
Letter submitted by NMHC and NAA.................................    51


                                 (iii)

 
  REAUTHORIZATION OF THE NATIONAL FLOOD INSURANCE PROGRAM: IMPROVING 
                          COMMUNITY RESILIENCE

                              ----------                              


                          TUESDAY, MAY 2, 2023

                                       U.S. Senate,
          Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met at 10 a.m., in room 538, Dirksen Senate 
Office Building, Hon. Sherrod Brown, Chair of the Committee, 
presiding.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIR SHERROD BROWN

    Chair Brown. The Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs 
Committee will come to order. Dr. Carolyn Kousky will join us 
virtually from, I believe, Philadelphia, perhaps, and Mr. 
Wright and Ms. Hernandez are here in person today.
    This hearing is a continuation of our efforts to enact a 
long-term reauthorization of the National Flood Insurance 
Program. The program has been extended 25 times since 2017. The 
latest extension will expire on September 30th of this year.
    We have heard from multiple groups representing the broad 
scope of stakeholders: realtors, public works officials, the 
business community, floodplain managers, mortgage lenders, FEMA 
officials across two Presidential administrations. They all 
delivered the same basic message: a long-term reauthorization 
is essential because flooding is the most common and most 
costly natural disaster facing families, businesses, and 
communities.
    Multiple factors are involved. Outdated flood maps, 
population growth in at-risk areas, land use patterns, and 
over-stretched infrastructure in many areas all play a role. 
And climate change is only making it worse. It is causing more 
frequent, extreme weather events, and it is making rainfall and 
snowfall less predictable.
    In recent weeks we have witnessed the highest river 
flooding in over 20 years in parts of the Upper Mississippi 
Valley. In California, unusually wet weather has resurrected a 
lake that has been dry since the 1980s, inundating productive 
cropland and threatening downstream communities. An extreme 
rainstorm overwhelmed Fort Lauderdale with over 2 feet of 
rainfall.
    According to NOAA, nearly half of the United States is at 
risk of flooding this spring. All of this, and hurricane season 
has not even started yet.
    Flooding is devastating to families, homes, businesses, and 
communities. And it is only getting worse.
    These disasters also often fall hardest on low-income 
families and communities that have fewer resources to prepare 
for and to respond to them. We will hear from one of our 
witnesses about the particular challenges faced by rural 
communities.
    We need to help our families and communities to adapt and 
become more resilient both to the flooding we face now, and to 
the increases we know are coming in the next several decades. 
And whenever possible, we want to help communities avoid 
extreme flooding altogether, through predisaster flood 
mitigation.
    The NFIP is critical to that effort. It provides nearly 
$1.3 trillion in coverage to over 4.7 million homes and 
businesses in over 22,000 communities.
    There are a number of things that separate the NFIP from 
the private insurance industry. Unlike a private insurance 
company, the NFIP does not just provide insurance. Its job is 
to prevent and minimize flood damage in the first place, not 
just help with recovery.
    The NFIP combats the overall threat of flooding through 
four related components: flood insurance, floodplain 
management, floodplain mapping, and mitigation.
    The Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill provided a downpayment 
on new opportunities for communities to help homeowners, by 
providing additional funding for grants to mitigate homes prior 
to disaster, or to expedite post-disaster buyouts for those who 
chose to move out of harm's way.
    We need to build on that investment.
    Because of continued denial of the breadth and scope of the 
climate crisis by some Members of Congress--unbelievably, a 
significant number in this Congress continue to deny the 
science of climate change when the cities in their States are 
at sea level or below and their forests are on fire--we know 
flooding will get worse and require even more resources and 
more aggressive action to prevent.
    We must reauthorize and strengthen the NFIP, and invest in 
flood mitigation and floodplain management before disasters 
happen in communities.
    Last Congress, we heard from stakeholders, including 
practitioners working with communities and families. We learned 
about barriers to underserved communities and families 
participating in flood mitigation programs; we learned about 
the benefits of expanding the Community Rating System to help 
communities reduce local flood risk; we learned about the 
importance of helping communities and property owners to 
understand their risk, both through improving mapping and other 
risk communications, and through disclosure of flood hazards to 
prospective owners and tenants; and we learned the importance 
of building State and local capacity to carry out our 
floodplain management and mitigation programs, especially for 
small and rural communities, places like in Montana.
    We also heard FEMA's recommendations for strengthening the 
program, including forgiving the overhang of debt from previous 
disasters and providing means-tested assistance to help more 
families afford insurance.
    I am interested in hearing our witnesses' recommendations 
for ways we can help strengthen the NFIP so that it can serve 
all communities, including rural, underserved, and Tribal 
communities, and how flood resilience is part of a holistic 
community policy.
    It is no secret that NFIP reauthorization has proven to be 
a challenge. It is a complex program, with multiple goals, with 
implications for many of the things people care about most--
their homes and their communities.
    However, I believe it is possible for us to come together 
to reauthorize and to improve this program.
    I look forward to working with Ranking Member Scott and the 
Members of this Committee to strengthen the NFIP and the 
country's comprehensive approach to mitigating flood risk 
through a long-term reauthorization bill this Congress.
    Senator Scott.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR TIM SCOTT

    Senator Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all 
for joining us. I appreciate both the witnesses and the one 
here with us virtually talking about such an important 
conversation. I will certainly say as a lifelong South 
Carolinian, I understand the real loss and impact that flooding 
has on our communities, because I have lived through them.
    In 2016, after Hurricane Matthew, I remember the 
devastation in the small town called Nichols, South Carolina, 
where the devastation of the storm was hard to watch. Even days 
after the storm was gone, the water was still above my knees as 
we looked for ways to help rebuild that community. Just 2 years 
later, Hurricane Florence came through the same town, washing 
away lives, homes, and businesses. Eight people were lost that 
year in South Carolina due to the storm.
    When I think about these experiences, the one word that 
does come to mind is the word ``resiliency.'' It is really 
important that our communities are resilient. And I will say 
without any question, the people of Nichols, South Carolina, 
and so many of the other hard-hit areas have proven to be 
resilient people. If the homes and the infrastructure built in 
these communities had the structural resilience to match the 
spiritual resilience of these residents, we would not see the 
same kind of devastation that we do in the wake of major storms 
like Matthew and Florence.
    Before coming to Washington, I spent a few years in the 
insurance business, about 23 of those years in the insurance 
business and more than half of that time with selling flood 
insurance. And I will say my experience goes back to Hurricane 
Hugo that devastated the Charleston area in a way that very few 
things ever has. And when you understand and appreciate the 
necessity of programs that work, you certainly do have an 
affinity and appreciation for the National Flood Insurance 
Program and its mission of helping out in some of the most 
challenging situations that we see. You couple that with FEMA, 
you understand as a community starts to rebuild the importance 
of having a Federal program that works.
    My concern is that when you look at the National Flood 
Insurance Program, the one thing we have to say is that it has 
not worked the way that it was intended to. If you look at the 
fact that in June 2017, we canceled $16 billion of its debt, 
and yet NFIP still owes more than $20 billion to the taxpayers.
    That, to me, is a problem. And I think we cannot just look 
through the prism of ``hopefully the Federal Government shows 
up when there is a need.''
    At the same time, we have to make sure that the Federal 
Government, the programs within the Government are as efficient 
and as effective as humanly possible to meet the broader needs 
of the people.
    One of the challenges I have often said is--I am trying to 
do some basic math here on the back of a piece of paper here, 
Mr. Chairman, as I was so eloquently speaking--three States--
Louisiana, South Carolina, and Florida--represent a 
disproportionate share of the premiums that flow into the 
National Flood Insurance Program. But when you look at the 
flood occurrences and incidents around the country, what you 
will come to conclude is that flooding is impacting communities 
in Ohio, devastating communities in Iowa, and yet 40 percent of 
the premium that funds the program comes from three specific 
States. That means that the formula that we are using to 
calculate who should be paying into the system is insufficient 
and certainly leaves the program underfunded.
    We have to reexamine the theory of, in my perspective, Mr. 
Chairman, not just flood insurance, but catastrophic 
occurrences that are happening more and more across the 
country, for us to understand and appreciate the necessity of 
what we are talking about. You cannot do it in a silo of just 
flood insurance. We have to have a broader conversation about 
catastrophic occurrences because taxpayers are subsidizing wind 
activities, tornadoes, and other challenges, as well as flood 
activity. So when you see it from a panoramic view, you come to 
a very different understanding and appreciation for the weight 
of catastrophic occurrences on the American people.
    Planning for that is something that we have just done 
poorly because we continue to see flood insurance and flood 
challenges, a National Flood Insurance Program as a coastal 
program, and the rest of the interior may not have to worry 
about it. But the truth of it is that we are seeing so many 
incredibly expensive incidents in the interior of our country, 
and not simply on our coasts.
    And that reinforces the importance of us having this 
conversation today and thinking about not only where they 
happen, but where the most vulnerable communities are least 
prepared to respond to the challenges.
    One of the areas where I think we could spend more time in 
disaster management is the area of prevention. That is why I am 
reintroducing my bipartisan legislation, the Repeatedly Flooded 
Communities Preparation Act. This legislation seeks to provide 
more resources to those areas of our Nation that face 
consistent and continuous flooding. Breaking the costly cycle 
of repeated flooding and rebuilding is an ounce of prevention, 
and it certainly is worth a pound of cure.
    Too often, both our conversations about flooding and the 
Federal spending meant to address it is focused on large cities 
on the coasts where the costs and disasters are high. But we 
cannot forget about the small towns and the rural communities 
far upriver, who oftentimes have even higher risks, as I just 
described a few minutes ago.
    Most of you are aware of my work on Opportunity Zones, 
where economic development incentives are targeted to 
communities who need it most. Recent changes to better target 
Federal mitigation efforts to underserved communities will have 
similar positive impacts.
    Without an actuarially sound insurance program--and that is 
the challenge of premium insufficiency, is it is not 
actuarially sound because we have not understood the risk as it 
is, as opposed to the way that we think it should be--this 
program will never be financially solid. Without better 
mitigation and mapping, costs for the insurance side of the 
program will continue to grow.
    That is why a comprehensive reform to the NFIP is 
essential, and doing so is the only way to ensure that flood 
insurance can remain affordable, accessible and most 
importantly, helpful to policyholders when they need it the 
most.
    Let me just finish on that one thought there. We look at 
the FEMA disaster recovery. I think the maximum amount is 
around $39,000 that people are able to be eligible for, whether 
you have flood insurance or not. We have to figure out how to 
make sure that Americans who need the coverage have the 
coverage, which I believe will reduce the burden that we are 
putting on the NFIP. We have to understand the risk as it is, 
and once again, not as we wish it was.
    Thank you.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Senator Scott.
    We are joined by stakeholders to share their ideas about 
ways to improve NFIP and better protect our communities. Dr. 
Carolyn Kousky serves as Associate Vice President for Economics 
and Policy at the Environmental Defense Fund. Before joining 
EDF, Dr. Kousky was Director of the Wharton Risk Management 
Decision Processing Center at the University of Pennsylvania.
    Mr. Roy Wright leads the Insurance Institute for Business 
and Home Safety. Prior to joining, he served as Chief Executive 
of the National Flood Insurance Program and testified before 
this Committee. Welcome in person, Mr. Wright.
    Ms. Patricia Hernandez serves as Executive Director for 
Headwaters Economics, located on Bozeman, Montana. She has 
practical experience working with rural and under-capacity 
communities and Tribes on flood mitigation grant projects, as 
well as research experience. Welcome Ms. Hernandez, in person.
    We will begin with Dr. Kousky, remote from Philadelphia. 
Dr. Kousky.

   STATEMENT OF CAROLYN KOUSKY, ASSOCIATE VICE PRESIDENT FOR 
              ECONOMICS AND POLICY, ENVIRONMENTAL
                          DEFENSE FUND

    Ms. Kousky. Good morning. I would like to thank Chairman 
Brown, Ranking Member Scott, and the esteemed Members of the 
Committee for the invitation to speak to you today, and I would 
also like to thank this Committee for their attention to this 
topic.
    I am the Associate Vice President for Economics and Policy 
at the Environmental Defense Fund and have been researching the 
NFIP for over 15 years, and that prior work informs my 
testimony today.
    I would like to start by stressing the important role that 
insurance plays in recovery from disasters. Severe floods 
impose enormous and variable costs on households, ranging from 
property damage to evacuation and temporary living expenses to 
cleaning up debris or buying fuel and generators. The list goes 
on and on. Most households have insufficient liquid savings to 
cover these expenses outright.
    Disaster loans are often a first line of defense, but for 
lower-income households additional debt could make their 
financial situation more precarious, and limited repayment 
ability often means they are locked out of access to credit 
altogether. And we know that Federal disaster aid is too 
limited or too delayed or too difficult to navigate. So with 
limited other options, insurance is essential for financial 
resilience.
    In ongoing research, for example, a colleague and I find 
that after hurricanes, households with insurance are less 
likely to report high financial burden and less likely to have 
unmet funding needs. We also find that widespread uptake of 
flood insurance improves local economic recovery by increasing 
visitations to local commercial establishments. This echoes 
other research findings that insurance improves recovery and 
the lack of flood insurance can actually widen inequality post-
disaster.
    For over 50 years, the NFIP has been providing this 
necessary coverage for millions of households, but, as you 
know, we still see far too many households at risk and not 
participating in this important financial protection. That is 
driven by many factors like lack of sufficient public 
information on flood risk and the cost of flood damages, as 
well as our own individual optimism that when the sun is 
shining, disasters will not happen to us.
    Another key driver is that far too often those who need 
insurance the most are simply unable to afford it, but without 
the resources to recover and obtain safe housing again, 
households might have to cover the recovery expenses in ways 
that can have negative impacts for their households or limit 
their ability to build wealth, like having to defer medical 
expenses or fall behind on bills, or drain retirement savings, 
and that is why equitable access to affordable insurance is so 
important.
    There is now increasing concern about affordability as 
prices rise to more closely align with risk at a property 
level. Risk Rating 2.0 made really important reforms to the way 
the NFIP prices policies, but it did not come with a means-
tested affordability program, which would require congressional 
action.
    Many researchers and agencies, including FEMA and the 
National Academy of Sciences, have long advocated for this 
approach. It should be supported through taxpayer dollars, be 
scaled so that the amount of support phases out as income 
increases, and be available to anyone, current or future 
policyholder, in or out of the FFHA.
    But I want to stress that the best way to address higher 
insurance prices is to lower the underlying risk. When risks 
are lower, insurance and disaster costs are less expensive. 
Prior investments in risk reduction by FEMA and the NFIP have 
paid dividends around the country, and right now, as mentioned, 
there is more mitigation grant funding available than ever 
before. But while this new funding is substantial, it is 
actually still far below demand, and as the risk of climate 
extremes continues to grow, so will the need.
    In the face of this, the NFIP can keep doing more to 
support risk reduction. A first step is providing better 
information on flood risk, today's risk and risk as the climate 
changes, and to households and communities. Before a community 
permits development or a family decides where to live, they 
should have an understanding of how the frequency of flooding 
might change, of the magnitude of those floods and their 
financial implications, of the full cost of insurance today, 
and potential increases in the future. But right now none of 
that information is easily available, creating information 
failures that can lead to risky decisions and information 
distortion in housing and mortgage markets.
    The NFIP can also provide greater financial support for 
risk reduction. This could include greater funding for post-
disaster resilient rebuilding, support for community 
mitigation, including nature-based approaches, a renewed focus 
on repetitive lost properties, speeding the time it takes to 
secure buyouts when owners want to relocate post flood, 
increasing capacity building and technical assistance to under-
resourced communities, and also supporting low-cost flood 
mitigation options as well.
    Finally, I want to note that insuring disasters is 
difficult. Their catastrophic nature opposes challenges to the 
private sector, and that is why we have so many public disaster 
insurance programs, from the NFIP to the California Earthquake 
Authority to State wind pools. But these public programs still 
have to figure out how to cover the cost of catastrophic loss 
years. The NFIP was never designed to do this, hence why it is 
now $20.5 billion in debt to the U.S. Treasury. This is a debt 
that all observers agree cannot be repaid by the program, and 
policyholders should not be shouldering the $1 million in 
interest the NFIP owes daily.
    I will close by noting that with a suite of reforms and a 
long-term reauthorization, the NFIP can be put on a sound path 
to providing financial resilience to households and communities 
as well as reducing long-term Federal disaster costs as we 
grapple as a Nation with growing climate extremes.
    Thank you so much for the opportunity to speak with you 
today, and I look forward to your questions.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Dr. Kousky.
    Mr. Wright, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

   STATEMENT OF ROY E. WRIGHT, PRESIDENT AND CEO, INSURANCE 
             INSTITUTE FOR BUSINESS AND HOME SAFETY

    Mr. Wright. Good morning, Chairman Brown, Ranking Member 
Scott, and Senators of the Committee.
    Community resilient seems to be the raison d'etre of the 
disaster world, and it should be. A decade ago, community 
resilient was an aspiration. It was more of a talking point. 
With recent investments funded by Congress, the United States 
has put significant dollars into mitigation programs across the 
Federal Government. The question is no longer whether more 
Federal funding is needed. It is how we spend those funds most 
wisely.
    It is mentioned when urban communities experiencing coastal 
flooding make the news quite a bit, but the flooding is 
national. It is regional in this kind of space. Suburban and 
rural communities across the Nation experience that, yet many 
lack the expertise and the resources to address the risk or 
even to seek out the Federal aid. We can do better for them.
    The built environment should be constructed to withstand 
what we know about the natural perils, especially when we know 
how to build and mitigate in ways to withstand Mother Nature's 
fury.
    The science on flood mitigation is more straightforward 
than it is for the other perils. You build higher and stronger, 
you elevate, you get out of the way of the water, you relocate, 
or you redirect the water, drainage and other flood 
infrastructure projects. While the engineering piece of this is 
clear, the path to bring these solutions to flood-prone homes 
and communities is far less clear.
    Mitigating before an event is always the goal, yet too many 
homes file repeat flood claims. I commend FEMA for its Swift 
Current Initiative that incorporates repetitive loss home 
acquisitions into the disaster recovery timeframe. Yet there is 
still room to make Swift Current meet the mark as being swift. 
Make it happen in real time so that the point of insurance 
claim is the point of grant offer for these repetitive losses.
    That said, property level mitigation will never be an 
efficient means to tackle this problem. Parenthetically, I will 
say property level mitigation is the right answer for wildfire 
or for wind risk. A single-foot elevation or relocation project 
changes the experience for a single family, yet it does not 
bend down the overall risk curve. Neighborhood scale endeavors 
are best. Elevate a full block of homes and the entire 
neighborhood returns after the water recedes. Buy out a couple 
blocks of a subdivision to leave room for the water, and the 
first responders do not need to approach the area during the 
flood. The water can flow.
    Neighborhood scale and infrastructure flood mitigation 
investments do more. You consider New Orleans, during and after 
Hurricane Ida. While too many homeowners experienced 
devastating and preventable losses from Ida's wind, the flood 
systems worked, and homes in New Orleans were spared flood 
damage.
    Final note on investing in flood resilience. Using 
mitigation grants to reduce risk to existing structures and 
communities is inherently reactive. Grants help us address 
previously made choices both where and how we build our homes 
and communities, yet we need to become more proactive in our 
approach to flood resilience. We cannot keep putting structures 
in harm's way and then question why we have billion-dollar 
flood disasters. Unless we drive down tomorrow's risks today, 
we will stay trapped in a cycle of asking our children to pay 
for our short-sided choices.
    Flooding will always be with us, so we do need more tools 
in the toolbox. The 117th Congress gave us a formidable tool in 
the Community Disaster Resilience Zones Act, CDRZ. The CDRZ 
approach identifies the communities that are at most risk to 
disasters and at most need, and then facilitate a whole-of-
Government approach, and should Congress choose to expand CDRZ 
usage, it has the potential to catalyze private and 
philanthropic investment. When private capitals incentivize in 
these resilience zones we will be less reliant on the 
Government grant funding to be the sole basis to solve these 
problems. FEMA is passionate about the possibility for CDRZ. 
This passion needs to be translated into action.
    Finally, a footnote on reauthorization. I have been at this 
table a number of times on this topic. If the work of 
reauthorization was easy, Congress would have passed a simple, 
long-term reauthorization years ago. Twenty-five small 
reauthorizations over 7 years--the story is the same. Congress 
needs to pass a long-term reauthorization that provides the 
program and customers with stability.
    I look forward to your questions, Chairman.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Mr. Wright.
    Ms. Hernandez, welcome. You have 5 minutes, please.

 STATEMENT OF PATTY HERNANDEZ, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, HEADWATERS 
                           ECONOMICS

    Ms. Hernandez. Thank you, Chairman Brown, Ranking Member 
Scott, and Senator Britt. I am the Executive Director of 
Headwaters Economics, an independent nonprofit based in 
Montana, and we work on community development primarily with 
Government partners. I am here today to share how mitigation 
efforts that start before disasters strike can reduce burden on 
Federal disaster programs and make communities safer and more 
prosperous.
    So at Headwaters Economics we run free technical assistance 
programs that help rural communities reduce flood and wildfire 
risks, and we have worked with over 100 communities across the 
country, so we have learned a lot about local needs and what 
successful disaster mitigation looks like. We are seeing proof 
that mitigation works. It yields cost savings for taxpayers and 
protects properties and livelihood.
    One of our partners is the rural town of Three Forks, 
Montana, and in 2021, their floodplains were remapped, showing 
that their risk of catastrophic flooding was much higher than 
they had previously understood. Much of Three Forks was mapped 
as floodway, which is essentially a no-build zone, and the 
residents, of course, were rightfully scared of what would 
happen to their property values and their insurance premiums, 
and it really did seem like the future of Three Forks was in 
jeopardy.
    So we partnered with the city of Three Forks, their staff, 
their local elected officials, State agencies in Montana, and 
local engineers, and found a solution that could eliminate 
nearly all of their flood risk. The project creates a grass-
lined channel that captures floodwaters and then directs them 
back into the Jefferson River, preserving the land for cattle 
grazing and protecting the town. And the cost of the project is 
$5 million, which is much less than the expected $60 million of 
damages that would happen if a flood, a single flood, were to 
occur in Three Forks, but still $5 million is still far out of 
reach for most rural communities.
    So after one failed attempt at a FEMA BRIC grant and then 
technical assistance from FEMA Region 8, the partnership 
successfully secured the largest FEMA flood mitigation 
assistance grant that has ever been awarded to a Montana 
community.
    So that project, it protects residents and businesses, it 
preserves workforce housing and agriculture, and it will help 
avoid future NFIP claims. It is a really exciting example of 
how investments and flood mitigation can reduce insurance 
burden on homeowners and taxpayers. But an important part of 
that story is what did not work so well and what we can do 
about it.
    Communities like Three Forks have a very hard time funding 
mitigation before disasters. Urban communities are more than 
twice as likely to win mitigation grants than their rural or 
Tribal counterparts. And this is, of course, because large 
cities, like New York City, have experienced staff available to 
coordinate partnerships and write grant proposals. It is also 
why Headwaters Economics developed the Rural Capacity Index, 
which is a national tool that measures whether communities have 
the resources and the local government staff, like planners and 
engineers, to secure funding. Our Rural Capacity Map shows that 
there are thousands of communities across America that lack the 
capacity required to access disaster mitigation funding.
    So what can we do? First, let us fix the huge gap in 
technical assistance, and I am talking about support to cover 
activities like helping rural communities identify mitigation 
solutions and compile grant proposals. Second, there is a lot 
we can do to streamline funding requirements, and at the top of 
the list is waiving local match requirements, which are very 
difficult for rural communities with a limited tax base.
    Third, we can encourage Federal agencies to prioritize 
funding for low-capacity communities. These strategies will 
yield large savings from avoided losses, they will alleviate 
pressure on programs like NFIP, and they are going to allow 
projects that protect communities from flooding to move 
forward.
    So thank you for your time and for elevating these issues.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Ms. Hernandez. Let me start 
questioning with you. I was intrigued by the Three Forks 
community, Jefferson River story that you told. What unique 
challenges, if you could expand on that, do small, rural, 
under-resourced communities face with floodplain management, 
especially mitigation efforts? What recommendations do you 
have, if you could be more specific coming out of that story, 
at the local level for carrying out these initiatives?
    Ms. Hernandez. Yes. So I have a great quote for you from 
the mayor of one of the communities where we work, in Glendive, 
Montana. She said, ``All these Federal agencies,''--this is 
Mayor Olson--``all these Federal agencies agree we have severe 
flood risk, but we can't afford to fix it ourselves.''
    So this is what we hear very commonly from rural 
communities. They need assistance with economic solutions to 
address flood risk. So understanding the feasibility of 
mitigation options, we can help with technical assistance, 
developing revenue strategies. That is something also that 
communities need help with even if they are not pursuing 
grants. If they are pursuing grants, they have local match 
requirements. If they are not, they need to locally fund flood 
mitigation.
    So, again, technical assistance is key, but beyond that, I 
think we can do a lot to invest in partnerships. Our approach 
at Headwaters Economics is partnerships between communities, 
rural and urban partnerships, but also across levels of 
Government. So when the local communities have a problem or 
want to advance a project, they know who to call at their 
State, at FEMA, et cetera.
    Chair Brown. Thank you. Mr. Wright, David Maurstad, 
Assistant Administrator at FEMA, testified last week in the 
House the debt interest payments in 2023 were about $1.5 
million a day, $600 million. That is not touching, of course, 
the principal of $20-plus billion. You have previously 
testified the debt is unlikely to be repaid. Do you agree with 
FEMA that the program's debt must be forgiven?
    Mr. Wright. Thank you, Chairman. I have had the opportunity 
to testify on behalf of both Republican and Democratic 
administrations on this topic. What I can tell you is that the 
debt that exists, the principal cannot be met. I also, 5 years 
removed from my time at FEMA, understand that you have got to 
find a politically feasible pathway forward.
    The real issue is the interest, and when I was leading the 
program, $250 million a year in interest servicing, that has 
gone up to about $500 million. It is going to keep going. 
Inside of the next 18 to 24 months, there is likely to be a 
point where the average interest rate is 5 or 6 percent. When I 
was there, it was 1.5 percent. It could mean that 33 cents out 
of every dollar is going to be going to this.
    So I think Congress needs to find a way to address the 
interest piece of this. How you want to deal with the budgetary 
pieces of what is forgiven or not, you have got to find a 
politically viable solution. What they cannot afford to do is 
to pay the interest.
    Chair Brown. I guess that is a yes, that the program's debt 
must be forgiven. Is there any other route to go there? I 
understand the political difficulty of that which you cite, 
but----
    Mr. Wright. So I know there have been conversations that I 
was a part of that says they would set aside and reassign the 
debt. Frankly, you just cannot make it go away. You can 
reassign it back to Treasury. You could direct the Treasury 
sell fund, the interest side of the equation. I just got into a 
point that says the other side, they cannot make those 
payments. I am with you on that. It likely is going to require 
a creative Washington-type solution to get to the finish line.
    Chair Brown. Yes, well, a Washington-type solution might be 
put it aside and ignore it, but that is not really a solution, 
and you know that from your----
    Mr. Wright. Seven years into----
    Chair Brown. Thank you. Dr. Kousky, in Philadelphia, lots 
of talk about the free market and the free market taking care 
of this, and I guess that means the free market would take care 
of flood maps and mitigation and insurance and clean-up and all 
the things that Ms. Hernandez mentioned, and that does not even 
seem in the realm of possibility, and those who argue for free 
markets for everything.
    Let me ask you this, Dr. Kousky, do you see the private 
industry taking most of the risk from the NFIP?
    Ms. Kousky. Good question. The most recent estimates from 
the National Association of Insurance Commissioners, which 
collect data on private flood insurance, are that less than 10 
percent of residential first-dollar policies are with the 
private sector. So the NFIP is ensuring over 90 percent of 
residential flood. And while advancements in data and modeling 
have led to this small increase in the private sector, which 
can be good for consumers with greater options and maybe lower 
cost, it is unlikely the private sector is ever going to be 
able to provide coverage for a substantial share of those at 
risk.
    We did a detailed assessment of the private market several 
years ago, and all the stakeholders we talked to found this to 
be the case, that there are just high-risk areas that the 
private sector is not going to be able to cover. And, in fact, 
when you look around the country right now where risks of other 
climate disasters are increasing--southern Louisiana, Florida, 
parts of Texas, parts of California--we are seeing insurers 
pulling back and limiting coverage and raising rates, not 
leaning into this risk.
    Chair Brown. Thank you. Senator Scott.
    Senator Scott. Thank you, sir. Mr. Wright, thank you for 
being such a proud South Carolinian and representing us so 
well. A couple of questions for you.
    I think it is fascinating that we spend a little time on 
$20 billion that we have in the flood insurance program and the 
debt that we have, taking the 1.5 percent interest rate to 5 
percent, one-third of the overall revenues that come and go out 
for interest payments and servicing the debt, that means that 
fewer dollars actually solve the problem of flood insurance.
    I thought what you were saying there and said, you know, 
what if you were a country that had $31 trillion of debt, and 
saying 1.5 percent goes to 5 or 6 percent interest. Multiply 
that by $31 trillion, and you come up with the single largest 
line item in all of your expenditures. It is not your military. 
It is not your domestic program. It is not the futures. It is 
literally servicing your debt and maybe without actually 
reducing a single penny of your debt. So if we have a crisis at 
$20 billion in the flood insurance program, and we do, there is 
no way to forgive $16 billion or $16 trillion of our national 
debt. That has to be paid back.
    So you think about the actual weight of the out-of-control, 
reckless spending of my friends on the other side of the aisle, 
and you come to the conclusion that sooner or later you have 
got to pay the piper. And the challenge that we are facing as a 
Nation is that we seem to be completely disconnected from 
reality, that somehow, some way, we can continue to have 
conversations around raising our debt ceiling without actually 
reducing our spending, ever. That seems to be some place that I 
have not been, an alternate universe does not exist.
    And for this concern, I am glad to hear that we are serious 
about figuring out how to deal with the $20 billion of debt 
that we have in the National Flood Insurance Program that is a 
crisis for the program. Thirty-one trillion dollars is a crisis 
for the American people, with $98,000, on average, being owed 
by every single American.
    So thinking about what we are trying to figure out here, 
more than 2 years after passage of the American Rescue Plan Act 
(ARPA), Democrats' reckless spending still has $150 billion 
sitting on balance sheets around the country. Of the funds that 
have been spent, there are far too many examples of waste, 
trying to figure out how to meet the obligations without 
wasting money, billions of Federal dollars spent on golf course 
irrigation, bids to host the World Cup, and other activities 
that are almost certainly not addressing the needs of 
vulnerable people.
    Additionally, programs specifically designed to mitigate 
floods saw substantial funding increases. FEMA's Building 
Resilient Infrastructure Communities, BRIC, or the FMA, the 
Flood Mitigation Assistance Program, or the STORM, as you know, 
all the acronyms of alphabet soup here, and numerous other 
programs at the Army Corps of Engineers and other agencies saw 
billions of new funding. My simple point is that sometimes 
excessive spending on programs does not always solve the 
problem.
    That leads to my question. Is now the time for more 
spending, and is now the time that we should ensure all this 
funding is spent in smart, targeted ways to mitigate risk?
    Mr. Wright. Thank you, Senator. I think where we currently 
sit today, the allocations that have been made are sufficient 
to address the near-term pieces of this risk. The biggest 
challenge, and you have highlighted this, is getting the money 
to the rural and non-urban context. The money is available. 
Now, let us go back through and spend it well.
    Senator Scott. How do we do that? Give me some examples. 
Some of the towns that we have, of course, as you look at the 
areas that are--I use air quotes to say ``prone to flooding,'' 
like Charleston, where I grew up, but you see so many of the 
challenges and the incidents in areas that have zero flood 
insurance. We had the other witness talk about the 90 percent 
of flooding will be paid for by the NFIP and not by private 
insurance. Well, the mapping that we are talking about, not 
only are we looking at the next iteration of the mapping, we 
need to rethink the definition of mapping to include the 
interior of this Nation, that it continues that flooding, and 
we have not done that.
    So expanding flood insurance, I think, is a good idea, but 
how do we get to the question on the table?
    Mr. Wright. Yeah. I think, as I mentioned, that Community 
Disaster Resilience Zones legislation that Congress passed last 
year is really pivotal. It says, go identify 100 places across 
the country where the need is great and the natural perils are 
going to collide, and make sure that they get the help they 
need and they get the priority that they need. I think that is 
a place where the funding and the authorities that Congress has 
already put in place need to be used by FEMA and the National 
Flood Insurance Program, so that, yes, we are helping 
Charleston, but we are also helping Georgetown, and we are 
helping Columbus, Ohio, and we are addressing the needs in 
Montgomery, Alabama. All of those need to be addressed, and I 
think the tools are there if the agency will choose to act.
    Senator Scott. Thank you, sir.
    Chair Brown. Thank you.
    Senator Menendez, of New Jersey, is recognized.
    Senator Menendez. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me first 
start off by thanking you and the Ranking Member for holding 
this hearing. I hope it marks the start of an effort by the 
Committee to provide a long-term reauthorization and reform of 
the National Flood Insurance Program, and I certainly look 
forward to working with the Chairman and the Ranking Member. 
Among other things, our NFIP RE Act is, I think, a good 
bipartisan piece of legislation to try to achieve that.
    Now, despite flooding being the most frequent and costly 
natural disaster, just 4 percent of Americans have a flood 
insurance policy. FEMA has long struggled to keep premiums 
affordable, and it appears that the NFIP's new rating 
methodology, Risk Rating 2.0, has only made flood insurance 
more out of the reach for working in middle-class families.
    In Patterson, New Jersey, where the median household income 
is $50,000 a year, 180 homeowners will see their premiums 
increase from an average of $1,500 a year to an average of 
$4,000 a year. In Keansburg, New Jersey, where the median 
household income is $76,000, 1,000 policyholders will go from 
an average of $1,300 to $3,500, and the list goes on and on.
    But insured or not, flooding is going to happen, and when 
it does, the Federal Government will be in the unfortunate 
position of providing less beneficial, more expensive disaster 
relief aid.
    So Ms. Kousky, you have stated previously that flood 
insurance should be available to any household in need. Should 
not Congress create an affordability program to help families 
cover the cost of flood insurance?
    Ms. Kousky. Yes. Thank you for this question. I agree that 
this is a really important policy priority for the program 
right now. We know, as you mentioned, that there are no good 
substitutes to insurance when it comes to having access to 
sufficient funds quickly to cover the financial shock of a 
severe flood or any other big disaster. And we also know for 
many households, flood insurance premiums are simply more than 
they can afford to pay. But without that financial safety net, 
these types of extreme disasters can create downward financial 
spirals for households where they might default on loans or 
accumulate debt or exhaust their savings.
    And so a means-tested affordability program would make sure 
that everyone had the financial protection that insurance 
provides, which improves not only their recovery but also 
provides positive spillover benefits to the community as people 
are able to get back on their feet faster.
    Senator Menendez. Thank you. Thank you. And after all, 
insurance is about spreading the risk. The broader the pool of 
those participating, the less likely that the premiums will be 
prohibitive. The smaller the pool, then the prices go up. So we 
should be wanting and trying to make the pool as big as 
possible.
    Far too often natural hazards significantly disrupt our 
economy, hurting the Nation's productivity and financial well-
being for families. When the private market fails to provide 
sufficient insurance to protect assets and property, the 
Federal Government has an imperative to step in. Ms. Hernandez, 
one example of this is the USDA's crop insurance program. Do 
you know how much it costs the Federal Government per year?
    Ms. Hernandez. Thank you for the question, Senator 
Menendez. The crop insurance program is not one that Headwaters 
Economics works with. From what I understand, the cost is 
something on the order of $7 to $10 billion annually. Of 
course, with an insurance program that is federally funded, 
whether NFIP or crop insurance, the preferred approach is to 
reduce risks so that you are reducing claims.
    Senator Menendez. Right. So it is $8 billion. The CBO 
projects it will cost $40 billion over the next 5 years. That 
funding is critical to keeping insurance affordable for the 
farming sector, which makes up 1 percent of our Nation's GDP. 
By the same token, coastal communities make up 30 percent of 
the Nation's GDP, but the premiums in the National Flood 
Insurance Program remain out of reach for many coastal 
communities. The NFIP does not receive any Government 
appropriations to incentivize participation. Like the crop 
insurance program, it is equally in our national economic 
interest to provide sufficient resources to ensure that flood 
insurance coverage is affordable and that we invest in 
mitigation to reduce future damage. And so I hope we will keep 
that in mind as we move toward that effort.
    One last question. One legislative proposal provided by 
FEMA is the idea of continuous coverage, which would allow 
policyholders to keep their NFIP discount if they leave the 
program to go to private flood insurance but later return to 
the NFIP. Ms. Kousky, do you know of any property and casualty 
company that offers continuous coverage for its policyholders?
    Ms. Kousky. No. That is not something the private sector 
would do.
    Senator Menendez. Yeah. I have never heard of that either, 
and this is just one of the ways in which we are having 
challenges with the NFIP program as it exists.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Senator Menendez.
    Senator Boyd Britt, of Alabama, is recognized.
    Senator Britt. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for 
being here today and your willingness to testify before this 
Committee.
    Mr. Wright, you have a strong background in working with 
families and communities that have suffered damage from 
flooding and severe weather. Since 2011, Alabama has led in 
building resiliencies into home construction. In Alabama, we 
have a State program that supports investments so that families 
can fortify their roofs against wind damage. That investment 
allows homeowners to get a discount on wind insurance.
    Yesterday May 1, 2023, Alabama celebrated 44,000 homes 
fortified. We certainly have seen success in our State. It is 
my understanding that you were able to join Commissioner Fowler 
and Deputy Commissioner Chapman to be able to see this 
firsthand. Can you speak to what you saw in the great State of 
Alabama, and any lessons we can learn and take into the topic 
we are discussing today?
    Mr. Wright. Absolutely. Thank you, Senator Britt. I was in 
Mobile and Dauphine Island last night before I made my way 
here. And what is striking about what has played out here is 
the lessons learned from Hurricane Ivan and others, and the 
destruction that played out said that those coastal communities 
knew they needed to do something.
    What Alabama did uniquely is find a way to make sure 
everyone knows what the risk is, to put incentives in place on 
the insurance place, to put building codes in place, and to put 
a grant program. The grant program in Alabama is fully funded 
by Alabama. They do not use Federal dollars in that space.
    But when Hurricane Sally came and approached and hit that 
direct line straight on, what we were able to see is that they 
withstood the wind. They were not getting water intrusion in 
those spaces. These homes had a combination of wind insurance 
as well as flood insurance in that space.
    And so I think it is an example, as we look at the broader 
flood elements that are here, we need to make sure that we are 
dealing with the entire ecosystem, have the right ways to make 
sure that we are not making the matter worse, because all new 
construction in southern Alabama meets those standards. We then 
nudge folks who have the ability to afford to do it because 
they get a price consideration, and for those who cannot afford 
it there is a Grant program to help them along the way.
    Senator Britt. Well, I appreciate you taking time to see 
the success firsthand. I certainly believe many of the lessons 
that we have learned in Alabama and the changes that we have 
made could be applied to this space as well.
    Mr. Wright. Agreed.
    Senator Britt. Given the scale and complexity of flood 
risk, it has been historically difficult to estimate and manage 
the damage and cost related to flooding. The level of damage we 
have seen from recent storms and related natural disasters have 
even further emphasized the need for FEMA to pursue a framework 
that more accurately reflects risk and effectively manages the 
cost of flooding under the National Flood Insurance Program. 
This not only includes managing costs following a natural 
disaster but also by promoting sound mitigation efforts in 
communities ahead of these events.
    What steps has FEMA taken, Mr. Wright, to help strengthen 
flood mitigation efforts in communities across our country, and 
protect homeowners and lower the national flood risk?
    Mr. Wright. Yes. I appreciate the elements that are there. 
So FEMA does a tremendous amount of work related to helping 
people understand the risk. The maps get criticized quite a 
bit, but I will tell you there is no other country on the 
planet that provides parcel-level risk analysis for a natural 
hazard like flood. It is the only place where it goes.
    And so we use that so that we can keep ourselves from 
repeating the problems and move the other side, and then 
address those that are not yet there.
    There has been talk here about Risk Rating 2.0, and while I 
am 5 years removed from making those decisions, I did launch 
that program because there were up to 25 percent of the 
policyholders who were paying too much. They need to have their 
price reduced, and others that had more risk.
    And so we have got to come to this place by which we do 
have insurance that is actuarily sound, that customers can 
count on that we make investments in a neighborhood scale to 
reduce that risk, and make sure that we do not make the problem 
worse.
    Senator Britt. Well, in your opinion, what more could FEMA 
be doing?
    Mr. Wright. So FEMA could be making--so I think that FEMA 
needs to accelerate the actions that they have in place.
    Senator Britt. OK.
    Mr. Wright. So I mentioned CDRZ. It is in place. I think 
they are talking about it more than doing. They put Swift 
Current in place. I know that staff on both sides of the aisle 
worked very closely with that over the last 7 or 8 years. It is 
the right thought. It is lagging.
    Senator Britt. It is lagging. So the effectiveness is not 
there yet.
    Mr. Wright. Correct.
    Senator Britt. OK. Thank you. My time has expired, but I 
really appreciate you all being here today.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Senator Boyd Britt.
    Senator Cortez Masto, of Nevada, is recognized.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to 
the panelists who are joining us today.
    This year, Nevada and other Western States have seen 
record-breaking amounts of precipitation, with the snowpack 
levels at 144 percent higher than average. In fact, the Sierra 
Nevada snowpack is currently the largest snowpack in the world.
    And President Biden declared a major disaster in Nevada. He 
ordered Federal funds to be available to eligible local 
governments in the counties of Douglas, Eureka, Lincoln, Lyon, 
Mineral, and Storey. These funds will repair or replace 
facilities damaged by the severe winter storms, flooding that 
comes from it, landslides, and mudslides.
    Mrs. Hernandez, let me ask you. The Nevada Department of 
Insurance earlier this year urged Nevadans to get flood 
insurance. Many lifelong Nevadans have never needed a policy, 
but now will need it due to the climate change. Thousands of 
homes in Nevada will be at risk of flooding over the coming 
years. How do we incent and educate homeowners in places not 
historically associated with flooding to get a policy? And I 
guess my question is, what has worked in Montana?
    Ms. Hernandez. Right. Well, first of all, thank you so much 
for that question, and it has themes that have come up in terms 
of letting folks know that there is risk. And we are also 
seeing floods from snowpack in other parts of the country, 
including Montana.
    The issues are, as Senator Scott mentioned, that there are 
places in the country that are flooding that it was not 
historically a problem. So we can definitely support FEMA in 
expanding and accelerating maps and education so that there is 
an accurate accounting of where the risk is. That would also 
help get folks enrolled in NFIP.
    The issue with that is if we are going to have education 
that allows people to know that there is flood risk, it has to 
be paired with resources to do something thing about it. And 
that is that, you know, the primary, what is being communicated 
to us on the ground when we work with community partners is, 
OK, we are getting our FEMA floodplain updated or mapped for 
the first time, but it not coming with any resources so that we 
can actually address the flood risk.
    And so I think that a pairing of those resources is really 
important, and it is going to help with the solvency of the 
program.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Let me touch on something 
because I agree with you that resources are necessary here, and 
that is part of the challenge.
    In President Biden's emergency declaration for Nevada, it 
notably left out one of our affected counties, which is 
Churchill County. The county did not trigger Federal assistance 
in part because they put preventative measures in themselves, 
right? They paid for it themselves. They put preventative 
measures in, and it is unlikely they will get reimbursed for 
those preventative measures.
    So how can Federal funds do a better job of encouraging 
prevention? I mean, isn't that what we really want on the front 
end, is to have them anticipate--we see the snowpack, we see 
what is going to happen, let's make sure the flood is not as 
bad as it potentially could be. We are going to put in 
preventative measures, but then the burden is all on them. How 
do we address that?
    Ms. Hernandez. Yes. Thank you again for the question and 
the opportunity to respond. I could not agree with you more. I 
think that there has been a pattern in this country of making 
mitigation funds available only following disasters. That is 
not the best use of taxpayer dollars, and we are seeing 
increasing risk in new places. And so absolutely, we should be 
encouraging the Federal agencies to offer mitigation resources 
prior to disasters, not only following disaster declarations, 
which not all communities managed to get.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Right. Any other panel members, 
comments?
    Mr. Wright. If I could, Senator, I do think that you hit a 
very pivotal thing, that I think as we look at natural 
disasters and FEMA's work over the next decade, given these 
growing costs, some fundamental changes need to be made so that 
when communities are making the investments, they are still 
meeting the partnership on the other side. At some point there 
is someone that says if I avoid acting, then the Federal 
Government will come pay the full bill for me. If I take 
action, then I do not get help. And we need to fix that, 
because that answer might have worked when the Stafford Act was 
put in place in the 1980s. It is not the right answer today.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Yes. Thank you. No, I appreciate 
that. Thank you so much.
    Chair Brown. Thank you.
    Senator Vance, of Ohio, is recognized.
    Senator Vance. Great. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to 
the two witnesses for being here with us this morning.
    So I want to ask a question just about geospatial analysis 
and how it determines what goes in the flood zones and what 
stays out of the flood zones.
    So most people assume that FEMA has been effective in 
determining low-lying areas in 100-year flood zones, but 
geospatial specialists seem to agree almost half of the 
structures in our country apparently should be considered flood 
zones, or those that should be considered flood zones are not 
and that obviously leaves out a huge number of American homes.
    Now why is that? Well, NFIP recently changed to using 
geospatial technology to assess premium rates, but they 
currently still use horizontal maps to identify flood areas. 
Now, if NFIP were to use the geospatial technology to replace 
their old maps with geospatially determined vertical-oriented 
flood maps, they could more accurately identify buildings with 
severe flood risk.
    So just one example, as I understand it, in the wake of 
Hurricane Ian, which hit Lee County in southwestern Florida 
particularly hard, my understanding is that only 25 percent of 
the homes had Federal flood insurance and that if geospatially 
based maps had been used, in fact, a much larger share of the 
homes in Lee County would have been covered.
    So without litigating the ins and outs of climate change, I 
guess one of the questions that I have is when we talk about 
areas that are hit with unexpected flooding and we attribute it 
to climate change, is at least part of what could be going on 
that we are not using accurate maps and that there are areas 
that clearly--and I am directing this question first to Mr. 
Wright, but I would love to get Ms. Hernandez's view as well--
are we actually not accurately identifying which homes are most 
susceptible to floods, and consequently, are we basically just 
ignoring a large area that has a high risk and instead 
attributing it to climate change when, in reality, we are just 
not accurately determining where the flood risks actually exist 
in this country?
    Mr. Wright. Yeah. Thank you, Senator. I think that as you 
look at it, FEMA is using the same root technology for the 
rating and for the maps. The key difference here, and this 
really ties back to something that you may want to look at in 
the reforms and reauthorization of the program, the mandatory 
purchase delineation is described, required by law and in the 
regulation, that is set at the 1 percent annual chance. And so 
the same inputs are going in, but there is a dynamic way to 
deal with the price that is now disconnected from what is a 
pretty old-school way, as you described, that says they draw a 
line. It says if you are inside the line, you must buy 
insurance. If you live just outside the line, you do not. I 
think we have got to change the education for folks to go if 
you live outside, no one prohibits you from getting insurance. 
In fact, it is cheaper.
    And so I think there is a change that has to happen in that 
space about where that limit and delineation, how people 
understand it.
    Senator Vance. Interesting. OK.
    Ms. Hernandez, I would love to get your views too.
    Ms. Hernandez. OK, so thank you, Senator, for the question. 
I certainly cannot speak to the engineering and modeling behind 
the flood mapping. What I can say is from the community 
experience, I have been on the ground in communities that are 
having their floodplain maps updated, and it is scary and, you 
know, a jarring experience because it is actually working in 
creating the incentive to mitigate the risk.
    There are, you know, there is new technology. Often what we 
are finding is that the flood risk is much higher than was 
previously understood. And whereas that is a very difficult 
experience for a community to go through, it is definitely 
working in creating an
incentive for mitigation. Then we have to help communities so 
that they know what to do about it.
    Senator Vance. Yeah. Can I just follow up, Mr. Wright, on 
something you said? You mentioned sort of the mandatory 
insurance within the line, the nonmandatory insurance outside 
the line. I mean, just in your experience, does that have a 
psychological effect on homeowners? I mean, if they are right 
outside the line and it is not mandatory, do they say, ``Well, 
you know, we are not in the floodplain zone so we are fine''?
    Mr. Wright. For the most part.
    Senator Vance. Interesting.
    Mr. Wright. I do think that there are places--we watched 
this in Hurricane Harvey--where something like a third of the 
claims that were paid were outside the line, but they were 
people in low-lying, flat areas, and they knew they were at 
risk, and so they did lean in and buy that insurance. I think 
for many of us, if we are told you do not have to spend money, 
you are less likely to spend it.
    Senator Vance. Yeah, yeah, got it. And my understanding is 
in terms of what falls in that 1 percent mandatory mapping, 
that is they are using the old horizontal technology, not 
geospatial technology. Is that right or do I have that wrong?
    Mr. Wright. I would say it is a bit more intricate than 
that. They are still using geospatial technologies. What you 
are seeing there is that difference that, generally speaking, 
there is a dynamic parcel-by-parcel way, is how we mapping 
across the country. And FEMA is still using a bright line--you 
are referring to as the horizontal line, but that equivalent 
side in that world.
    Senator Vance. Got it. OK. Thank you, both.
    Senator Cortez Masto [presiding]. Senator Warren.
    Senator Warren. Thank you, Acting Chairman.
    Over the last 25 years, 99 percent of U.S. counties 
experienced at least one flooding event. In other words, 
flooding events are nearly universal. But people of color get 
hit harder due to aging infrastructure, structurally unsound 
homes, and Federal policies like redlining that segregated 
communities of color and kept them closer to floodplains.
    Yet low-income neighborhoods and communities of color 
receive limited investments in flood protection. Reports show 
that FEMA disproportionately invests in protecting homes in 
White and wealthy communities from floods, reducing insurance 
costs and boosting property values for those homeowners.
    Last year, FEMA Associate Administrator for Resilience, 
David Maurstad, said that FEMA does not track the race or 
ethnicity of people who receive aid, saying, and I quote him 
here, ``because we don't collect it. We don't discriminate 
against individuals,'' end quote.
    But just because there is not intentional discrimination 
does not mean that aid is distributed equitably.
    Ms. Hernandez, you are an expert on community development 
data and equity. Can you just describe how the failure to 
collect key demographic data can exacerbate inequity in FEMA 
programs?
    Ms. Hernandez. Thank you, Senator Warren, for the question. 
So yes, absolutely, without accurate data, it is very hard to 
reach people with services and to direct those services to the 
people that need them most, so I could not agree more.
    I had a colleague yesterday just looking at some numbers 
for who lives in the highest flood risk places in this country, 
and she was just telling me that there is a much higher share 
of people in poverty, families in poverty, there is a higher 
share of people that are older than 65 living in the most high-
risk places in this country, and a higher share of people who 
self-identify as people of color and Hispanic. So certainly, 
there are a lot of folks counting on both disaster mitigation 
and response services in the high flood risk areas, and so 
absolutely, data is needed.
    I would say that that is true for FEMA and also for local 
governments and community leaders who are trying to make their 
case, and advocate for resources.
    Senator Warren. OK. All right. So we start out structurally 
that there are more people of color, there are more poor people 
in areas that are prone to flood, but we cannot track what is 
happening if we do not collect the data. Is that a fair 
sentence about it? OK.
    Ms. Hernandez. Yes.
    Senator Warren. So a year and a half ago, FEMA introduced 
Risk Rating 2.0, which is a new risk rating methodology for the 
National Flood Insurance Program, and the update include more 
variables, datasets, models on how the flood insurance program 
decides how much insurance for each individual house should 
cost, all with the aim of delivering more equitable pricing for 
policyholders, and I hope that FEMA delivers on these important 
goals.
    But we also need more far-reaching reforms, and that is why 
last year Congressman Benny Thompson and I introduced the FEMA 
Equity Act, to ensure greater equity in disaster assistance 
programs, including by improving data collection to measure 
disparate outcomes and participation barriers, and requiring 
equity criteria be applied to policies and programs.
    Now Ms. Hernandez, from your experience, would the 
provisions in our bill have helped make FEMA programs like the 
National Flood Insurance Program more equitable so they reach 
all communities that are in need of disaster assistance?
    Ms. Hernandez. Thank you, Senator, for the question. So I 
am not prepared to speak to any specific legislation, but 
provisions like those are absolutely helpful for encouraging 
and supporting FEMA in reaching the people who are most 
impacted by disasters and for advancing mitigation as well.
    Senator Warren. You know, for too long front-line 
communities have been disproportionately impacted by the 
devastating effects of natural disasters. We need to work to 
address that injustice and to ensure that Federal programs are 
actually fixing the disparity, not making it worse by forcing 
people to pay more than their fair share or by limiting relief 
to the people who need it most.
    The Biden administration has made important reforms to 
address inequities in Federal disaster management programs, but 
there is more to be done both to codify and to build on these 
changes, and I will continue to fight for that.
    Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Senator Kennedy.
    Senator Kennedy. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Wright and Ms. 
Hernandez, thank you both for being here.
    Mr. Wright, do you own a home?
    Mr. Wright. I do.
    Senator Kennedy. Do you have a mortgage?
    Mr. Wright. I do.
    Senator Kennedy. Does your mortgage company require you to 
carry homeowners insurance?
    Mr. Wright. It does.
    Senator Kennedy. OK. Suppose your homeowners insurer came 
to you and said, ``Look, Mr. Wright, I cannot tell you why but 
I am going to start raising your premium 18 percent a year, 
because we hired this group called Milliman, and they have come 
up with this magical algorithm that can take a look at your 
home, not your neighbors' homes, but your home, and predict, 
over the next 30 years, your risk, every single year, of 
whether you are going to have a fire. And so we are going to 
start raising your rates 18 percent a year. We cannot tell you 
how long we are going to stop raising those rates, and we 
cannot explain to you the Milliman algorithm because it is 
secret. If we showed it to you, we would have to kill you.'' 
What would you do?
    Mr. Wright. You know, I get increases in----
    Senator Kennedy. Would you try to find a new insurer?
    Mr. Wright. I would ask questions to seek to understand, 
and I may shop for another insurer.
    Senator Kennedy. What if you cannot shop? What if there are 
no other insurers and your mortgage company says, ``No, you 
have got to take this insurance''?
    Mr. Wright. Senator, I think that as we look at these 
dimensions, there are pieces of algorithms, as you speak to, 
that we should be clear and show folks what those pieces are 
and we have to understand----
    Senator Kennedy. Yeah, but, you see, FEMA does not. FEMA 
does not. And FEMA has rolled out this program. They will not 
share the algorithm. There are 500,000 Federal flood insurance 
policies in America. Ten percent of them are in my State. My 
people do not have million-dollar mansions on the Gulf. These 
are working people, and their mortgage company requires them to 
carry flood insurance, it is the only way they get it.
    For example, in Cameron Parish, the average new cost of 
flood insurance there is $4,454. The median household income is 
$48,000. And in Plaquemines Parish the new price for insurance 
is $5,431. The median household income is $65,000. In Saint 
Mary Parish, a new flood insurance policy costs $5,226, and the 
median household income is $40,218.
    Now, these people cannot afford flood insurance, but they 
will have to give up their home if they do not carry it. And if 
they go to FEMA and say, ``You raised my premiums 18 percent 
this year. How long are you going to keep doing it?'' They say, 
``We cannot tell you that.'' And these people say to FEMA, my 
people say to FEMA, ``Have you considered levees, the impact of 
levees?'' and FEMA says, ``We do not have to answer that.''
    And then my people go to FEMA and they say, ``Well, why are 
you doing this?'' ``Well, we have this new algorithm.'' And 
they say, ``Can we see the algorithm, to hire somebody to look 
at algorithm to see if you are considering levees?'' and they 
say, ``Oh no. If we show you the algorithm, we will have to 
kill you.''
    And then my people find out that in 2022, in a secret memo 
that FEMA did not want to come out, they are estimating--FEMA 
estimates that 900,000 policyholders, 20 percent of all the 
policyholders for flood insurance in the country, they figure 
they are going to drop their insurance.
    So what is the point of flood insurance if nobody can 
afford it, and what is the point of having a Federal agency, 
paid for with people's taxpayer dollars, if they will not 
explain to the people what they are doing?
    Mr. Wright. So Senator----
    Senator Kennedy. Are you still for Risk Rating 2.0?
    Mr. Wright. Senator, I am 5 years removed from making 
decisions in FEMA, and yes, I was the person who launched Risk 
Rating 2.0. And so we have had these conversations, and I am 
happy to continue to do so.
    Senator Kennedy. Well, you did not. You did not. No, this 
is not personal to you. I do not know what your involvement 
was. But the people that implemented this and rolled it out in 
this manner ought to hide their head in a bag.
    Mr. Wright. So I do think that FEMA should be transparent 
about what they are doing. I also know that these insurance 
calculations are more like calculus than they are arithmetic, 
but the risks are growing. The cost of wind insurance in 
southern Louisiana is just as high or higher. And so I think 
there is an affordability need, for sure, but we have got to 
look at this. Yes, FEMA should be showing the pieces. We need 
to make sure people understand it. I think people need to know 
which mitigation----
    Senator Kennedy. But they are not. They are not.
    Mr. Wright. And Senator----
    Senator Kennedy. Mr. Wright, you know that. Nor do the 
people at FEMA seem to care.
    Mr. Wright. All I can say to you is that there are 
increasing risks. Those costs, in some places--I was just in 
Cameron and Calcasieu Parish last month. I understand this. 
They are still recovering from Ida and Laura that came through.
    Senator Kennedy. I have got to wrap this up. If the IRS 
came to you and said--I do not know how much money you make; I 
do not want to know--if the IRS came to you and said, ``We are 
going to do your taxes for you this year, Mr. Wright. You owe 
$4 million in income taxes, but we cannot tell you how we came 
up with the figure.'' Do you think that would be fair?
    Mr. Wright. That would not be a fair action by the IRS.
    Senator Kennedy. No it would not, would it?
    Chairman Brown [presiding]. Thank you, Senator Kennedy.
    Senator Scott has a question, then I will do a question. I 
think Senator Fetterman is on the way.
    Senator Scott. Thank you, Senator Kennedy, for your 
thoughtful approach on getting questions answered. That would 
not be fair. Thank you.
    To flood mitigation and repetitive losses, my understanding 
is, according to FEMA--and Mr. Wright, the question for you, 
and I am happy for you to weigh in, Ms. Hernandez as well--1 
percent of the losses account for about 30 percent of the 
payouts. Said in numbers, it is about $12.5 billion of damages, 
averaging roughly $84,000 per property that has experienced a 
loss, after a loss, after a loss, after a loss, and sometimes a 
fifth loss.
    My legislation takes steps toward ending this cycle of 
flooding and rebuilding, and flooding and rebuilding, and 
flooding and rebuilding, followed by flooding and rebuilding. 
It requires local communities to think about better ways to 
mitigate the risk at these properties.
    Trusting flood risk is not simply about the property. When 
you have that many consistent floods, you typically have a 
significant loss of lives. Thoughts, quickly, since Senator 
Fetterman is here.
    Mr. Wright. Yes, thank you, and I think that this issue 
related to repetitive losses is a very unique one because FEMA, 
on the national flood insurance, is ostensibly the insurer of 
last resort for flood. Under the current statute, they have no 
choice but to offer flood insurance to anyone who seeks it.
    As I said in my testimony, we need to address the 
mitigation from two angles, one of them at the neighborhood 
scale. We have got to address that thing more broadly. The kind 
of projects that we talked about in Three Forks are cases in 
point, give the water a place to go.
    And I would go further because in the private market side 
of the equation, by the time you have filed that many claims, 
they tell you that you cannot have that insurance at that price 
any longer. And we began to call these the extreme repetitive 
losses when I was there, and I think you have got to find a way 
to, yes, lean on the community because I think your bill as 
proposed, outlines--you have got to do planning for this. But 
these most egregious ones that make the front page of the 
newspaper----
    Senator Scott. Yes.
    Mr. Wright. ----are often going to be structures that 
someone needs to walk in and say, ``Insure it yourself. Stop 
making someone else pay this bill.''
    Senator Scott. Thank you.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Senator Scott.
    Senator Fetterman, of Pennsylvania, is recognized.
    Senator Fetterman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Pennsylvanians have seen firsthand the awful impact of 
flooding on their homes and lives. During Hurricane Ida, 
residents in and around Philadelphia sheltered within the storm 
as the storm tore their homes apart. People shared their 
stories of swimming out of their homes. Part of the Vine Street 
X-Way was underwater, and there is roughly $3 billion in 
damage.
    As climate change makes storms even worse, flood waters are 
showing up outside of federally designated flood zones like 
Middletown, Pennsylvania, which flooded in 2017, despite being 
away from the Susquehanna River, and Swatara Creek, or your 
county where I grew up in. Some of the townships were impacted 
by a 2018 flood that is few--which has had only two policies.
    Ms. Hernandez, how does the National Flood Insurance 
Program in rural communities experience increased flood risks 
for the very first time?
    Ms. Hernandez. Thank you, Senator Fetterman, for that 
question. So interestingly, the last two comments have been, 
you know, about communities that have been flooded over and 
over and over again, from Senator Scott, and communities that 
are seeing flood risks and floods for the first time. And I 
would say that in all of these cases, rural communities need 
resources and help.
    In the case of repetitive floods, people are exhausted and 
local government staff have their time split between many 
responsibilities. In the case of communities that are seeing 
floods for the first time, there is not the know-how and the 
institutional knowledge to navigate the solutions that are 
needed. So this is a place where State agencies and Federal 
Governments can lend lot of help.
    Senator Fetterman. So how can we improve the education 
about flood risks before disasters and get resources to them 
faster after disaster?
    Ms. Hernandez. Thanks for the followup question, Senator 
Fetterman. Education and mapping are really critical first 
steps. Information for residents living in flood-prone 
communities, like real estate disclosures, are super important, 
but then there is the followup. It is after you know that you 
have flood risk, you need to have help understanding the 
solutions.
    And as Mr. Wright has called out several times, the most 
effective solutions, both in terms of safeguarding people's 
properties and the most responsible use of taxpayer dollars, is 
to do flood risk reduction projects at a neighborhood or 
community scale. That really involves your local government, 
who is responsible for those types of infrastructure decisions.
    Senator Fetterman. And doctor, no, please go ahead.
    Mr. Wright. I think the point there that is so important, 
and as we watch communities who have no recent memory of 
flooding, experience it for the very first time, it creates 
this reactive piece, and it is one thing to tell folks, which 
is true, if it rains there, it can flood, but the flip side is 
until it invades their community the first time, they are not 
taking action.
    Senator Fetterman. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Brown. Thank you, Senator Fetterman. Thank you all.
    Let me do one last question, and Dr. Kousky, to you in 
Philadelphia. With the difference in the speed and extent of 
recovery largely based on the family having insurance, how 
important is it to create an NFIP affordability program so that 
coverage is expanded?
    Ms. Kousky. Yes. As we have discussed, I think this is 
really necessary. Research shows how difficult people's 
recovery can be without the financial protection of insurance, 
and so expanding access to insurance for those who cannot 
afford it provides this protection for them, but it is also a 
necessary condition for other aspects of recovery. We see 
spillover positive benefits into emotional well-being, physical 
and mental health, educational attainment, the stability of 
families, which are all tied to being able to access the 
resources needed to make repairs and improvements and get their 
lives back together. So something to help folks with the cost 
of
disaster insurance would have these wider impacts on well-being 
as well.
    Chair Brown. Thank you. Thanks to the three witnesses for 
joining us. Thanks to colleagues who were here and asked 
questions.
    For Senators who wish to submit questions for the record, 
those questions are due 1 week from today, Tuesday, May 9th. To 
the witnesses, you have 45 days, please, to respond to these 
questions.
    Thank you again. With that, this hearing is adjourned. 
Thank you all.
    [Whereupon, at 11:25 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
    [Prepared statements, responses to written questions, and 
additional material supplied for the record follow:]
               PREPARED STATEMENT OF CHAIR SHERROD BROWN
    This hearing is a continuation of our efforts to enact a long-term 
reauthorization of the National Flood Insurance Program. The program 
has been extended 25 times since September of 2017. The latest 
extension will expire on September 30th of this year.
    We have heard from multiple groups representing the broad scope of 
stakeholders: realtors, public works officials, the business community, 
floodplain managers, mortgage lenders, and Federal Emergency Management 
Agency (FEMA) officials across two Presidential administrations.
    They all delivered the same basic message: a long-term 
reauthorization of the NFIP is essential because flooding is the most 
common and most costly natural disaster facing families, businesses, 
and communities across the country.
    Multiple factors are involved in the increase in flooding.
    Outdated flood maps, population growth in at-risk areas, land use 
patterns, and over-stretched infrastructure in many areas play a role.
    And climate change is only making it worse. It's causing more 
frequent extreme weather events, and it's making rainfall and snowfall 
less predictable.
    In recent weeks we have witnessed the highest river flooding in 
over 20 years in parts of the Upper Mississippi Valley.
    In California, unusually wet weather has resurrected a lake that's 
been dry since the 1980s, inundating productive cropland and 
threatening downstream communities.
    An extreme rainstorm overwhelmed Fort Lauderdale with over 2 feet 
of rainfall.
    According to NOAA, nearly half of the United States is at risk of 
flooding this spring.
    All of this, and hurricane season hasn't even started yet.
    Flooding is devastating to families, homes, businesses, and 
communities. And it is only getting worse.
    These disasters also often fall hardest on low-income families and 
communities that have fewer resources to prepare for and respond to 
them. We will hear from one of our witnesses about the particular 
challenges faced by rural communities.
    We need to help our families and communities to adapt and become 
more resilient both to the flooding we face now, and to the increases 
we know are coming in the next several decades.
    And whenever possible, we want to help communities avoid extreme 
flooding altogether, through predisaster flood mitigation.
    The NFIP is critical to that effort.
    It provides nearly $1.3 trillion in coverage to over 4.7 million 
homes and businesses in over 22,000 communities.
    There are a number of things that separate the NFIP from the 
private insurance industry.
    Unlike a private insurance company, the NFIP does not just provide 
insurance. Its job is to prevent and minimize flood damage in the first 
place, not just help with recovery.
    The NFIP combats the overall threat of flooding through four 
related components:

    Flood insurance;

    Floodplain management;

    Floodplain mapping; and

    Mitigation.

    The Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill provided a down payment on new 
opportunities for communities to help homeowners, by providing 
additional funding for grants to mitigate homes prior to disaster--or 
to expedite post-disaster buyouts for those who chose to move out of 
harm's way.
    We need to build on that investment.
    Because of continued denial of the breadth and scope of the climate 
crisis by some members of Congress--unbelievably, a significant number 
in this Congress continue to deny the science of climate change when 
the cities in their States are at sea level or below and their forests 
are on fire--we know flooding will get worse and require even more 
resources and more aggressive action to prevent.
    We must reauthorize and strengthen the NFIP, and invest in flood 
mitigation and floodplain management before disasters happen in 
communities.
    Last Congress, we heard from stakeholders, including practitioners 
working with communities and families. We learned about:

    Barriers to underserved communities and families 
        participating in flood mitigation programs,

    The benefits of expanding the Community Rating System to 
        help communities reduce local flood risk,

    The importance of helping communities and property owners 
        to understand their risk--both through improving mapping and 
        other risk communications, and through disclosure of flood 
        hazards to prospective owners and tenants, and

    The importance of building State and local capacity to 
        carry out our floodplain management and mitigation programs, 
        especially for small and rural communities.

    We also heard FEMA's recommendations for strengthening the program, 
including forgiving the overhang of debt from previous disasters and 
providing means-tested assistance to help more families afford 
insurance.
    I am interested in hearing our witnesses' recommendations for ways 
we can help strengthen the NFIP so that it can serve all communities, 
including rural, underserved, and Tribal communities, and how flood 
resilience is part of a holistic community policy.
    It is no secret that NFIP reauthorization has proven to be a 
challenge.
    It's a complex program, with multiple goals, with implications for 
many of the things people care about most--their homes and their 
communities.
    However, I believe it is possible for us to come together to 
reauthorize and improve this program.
    I look forward to working with Ranking Member Scott and the Members 
of the Committee to strengthen the NFIP and the country's comprehensive 
approach to mitigating flood risk through a long-term reauthorization 
bill this Congress.
                                 ______
                                 
                PREPARED STATEMENT OF SENATOR TIM SCOTT
    Thank you all for joining us, I appreciate both the witnesses and 
the one here with us virtually talking about such an important 
conversation. I'll certainly say as a lifelong South Carolinian, I 
understand the real loss and impact that flooding has on our 
communities, because I've lived through them.
    In 2016, after Hurricane Matthew, I remember the devastation in the 
small town called Nichols, South Carolina, where the devastation of the 
storm was hard to watch. Even days after the storm was gone, the water 
was still above my knees as we looked for ways to help rebuild that 
community. Just 2 years later, Hurricane Florence came through the same 
town, washing away lives, homes, and businesses. Eight people were lost 
that year in South Carolina due to the storm.
    When I think about these experiences, the one word that does come 
to mind is the word ``resiliency.'' It's really important that our 
communities are resilient. And I will say without any question, the 
people of Nichols, South Carolina, and so many of the other hard hit 
areas have proven to be resilient people. If the homes and the 
infrastructure built in these communities had the structural resilience 
to match the spiritual resilience of these residents, we wouldn't see 
the same kind of devastation that we do in the wake of major storms 
like Matthew and Florence.
    Before coming to Washington, I spent a few years in the insurance 
business--about 23 of those years in the insurance business and more 
than half of that time with selling flood insurance. And I will say my 
experience goes back to Hurricane Hugo that devastated the Charleston 
area in a way that very few things ever [have]. And when you understand 
and appreciate the necessity of programs that work, you certainly do 
have an affinity and appreciation for the National Flood Insurance 
Program and its mission of helping out in some of the most challenging 
situations that we see.
    You couple that with FEMA, you understand as a community starts to 
rebuild, the importance of having a Federal program that works. My 
concern is that when you look at the National Flood Insurance Program, 
the one thing we have to say is that it hasn't worked the way that it 
was intended to. If you look at the fact that in June 2017, we canceled 
$16 billion of its debt, and yet NFIP still owes more than $20 billion 
to the taxpayers.
    That, to me, is a problem. And I think we can't just look through 
the prism of ``hopefully the Federal Government shows up when there is 
a need.'' At the same time, we have to make sure that the Federal 
Government, the programs within the Government are as efficient and as 
effective as humanly possible to meet the broader needs of the people.
    One of the challenges I've often said is three States: Louisiana, 
South Carolina, and Florida, represent a disproportionate share of the 
premiums that flow into the National Flood Insurance Program. But when 
you look at the flood occurrences and incidents around the country, 
what you'll come to conclude is that flooding is
impacting communities in Ohio, devastating communities in Iowa, and yet 
40 percent of the premium that funds the program comes from three 
specific States. That means that the formula that we're using to 
calculate who should be paying into the system is insufficient and 
certainly leaves the program underfunded.
    We have to reexamine the theory of--in my perspective, Mr. 
Chairman--not just flood insurance, but catastrophic occurrences that 
are happening more and more across the country, for us to understand 
and appreciate the necessity of what we're talking about. You can't do 
it in a silo of just flood insurance. We have to have a broader 
conversation about catastrophic occurrences because taxpayers are 
subsidizing wind activities, tornadoes, and other challenges, as well 
as flood activity. So when you see it from a panoramic view, you come 
to a very different understanding and appreciation for the weight of 
catastrophic occurrences on the American people.
    Planning for that is something that we have just done poorly 
because we continue to see flood insurance and flood challenges, a 
National Flood Insurance Program as a coastal program, and the rest of 
the interior may not have to worry about it. But the truth of it is 
that we're seeing so many incredibly expensive incidents in the 
interior of our country, and not simply on our coast[s].
    And that reinforces the importance of us having this conversation 
today and thinking about not only where they happen, but where the most 
vulnerable communities are least prepared to respond to the challenges. 
One of the areas where I think we could spend more time in disaster 
management is the area of prevention. That's why I'm reintroducing my 
bipartisan legislation, the Repeatedly Flooded Communities Preparation 
Act. This legislation seeks to provide more resources to those areas of 
our Nation that face consistent and continuous flooding, breaking the 
costly cycle of repeated flooding and rebuilding is an ounce of 
prevention, and it certainly is worth a pound of cure.
    Too often, both our conversations about flooding and the Federal 
spending meant to address [it] is focused on large cities on the 
coast[s] where the costs and disasters are high. But we can't forget 
about the small towns and the rural communities far upriver [that] 
oftentimes have even higher risks, as I just described a few minutes 
ago. Most of you are aware of my work on Opportunity Zones, where 
economic development incentives are targeted to communities who need it 
most. Recent changes to better target Federal mitigation efforts to 
underserved communities will have similar positive impacts.
    Without an actuarially sound insurance program--and that's the 
challenge of premium insufficiency, is it's not actuarially sound 
because we have not understood the risk as it is, as opposed to the way 
that we think it should be--this program will never be financially 
solid. Without better mitigation and mapping costs for the insurance 
side of the program will continue to grow.
    That is why a comprehensive reform to the NFIP is essential, and 
doing so is the only way to ensure that flood insurance can remain 
affordable, accessible and most importantly, helpful to policyholders 
when they need it the most. Let me just finish on that one thought 
there. We look at the FEMA disaster recovery, I think the maximum 
amount is around $39,000 that people are able to be eligible for, 
whether you have flood insurance or not. We have to figure out how to 
make sure that Americans who need the coverage have the coverage, which 
I believe will reduce the burden that we're putting on the NFIP. We 
have to understand the risk as it is, and once again, not as we wish it 
was.
                                 ______
                                 
                  PREPARED STATEMENT OF CAROLYN KOUSKY
    Associate Vice President for Economics and Policy, Environmental
                              Defense Fund
                              May 2, 2023
    Good morning. I would like to thank Chairman Brown, Ranking Member 
Scott, and the esteemed Members of the Committee for the invitation to 
speak to you today. I would also like to thank this Committee for its 
support and attention to the National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP) 
and their focus on increasing the resilience of our communities. I am 
pleased to have the opportunity to testify today and share my 
perspectives on policy priorities for the program.
    I am the Associate Vice President for Economics and Policy at the 
Environmental Defense Fund. I have been researching the NFIP for over 
15 years. This has included studies on the mandatory purchase 
requirement, drivers of demand, design of increased cost of compliance 
coverage, adverse selection in the program, pricing, and the private 
flood insurance market. I am also the author of the book Understanding 
Disaster Insurance: New Tools for a More Resilient Future. My research 
on this program, and that of the broader research community, informs my 
testimony today.
The Important Role of Flood Insurance in Recovery
    Severe floods, like other natural disasters, impose enormous and 
wide-ranging costs on households. These include repairing property 
damage to homes, possessions, and vehicles, as well as the cost of 
emergency and preparedness supplies, evacuation expenses, temporary 
living expenses if people have to leave their homes, higher food 
expenses if families need to eat out more, potential health impacts or 
additional care for vulnerable family members, and the costs of 
cleaning up debris generated from the disaster. If power is lost, 
people may need to purchase generators and fuel; if the transportation 
network is down, they may incur higher commuting costs; and if 
businesses are impacted, they may lose income at the same time they 
face an increase in expenditures.
    How do households cover these disaster-related costs? Most 
households have insufficient liquid savings to cover expenses outright. 
This is more severe for people with lower incomes and people of color; 
research has shown these populations have lower levels of emergency 
savings, due to systemic inequalities and limited access to resources. 
\1\ Disaster loans are often a first line of defense provided to those 
impacted by disaster, but for lower-income households, additional debt 
is more likely to make their financial situation more precarious and 
limited repayment ability will mean many lower-income households will 
be completely locked out of access to credit altogether. Federal 
disaster aid is too limited or too delayed or creates unnecessary 
burdens for households. \2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \1\ Ratcliffe, C., B. Middlewood, M. Knoll, M. Davies, and G. 
Guillory (2022). ``Emergency Savings and Financial Security: Insights 
From the Making Ends Meet Survey and Consumer Credit Panel''. 
Washington, DC: Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.
     \2\ May, R. (2020). ``Accessing Disaster Recovery Assistance 
Requires a Map and a Compass''. Wharton Risk Management and Decision 
Processes Center, University of Pennsylvania. Online at: https://
riskcenter.wharton.upenn.edu/labs/recoveryassistancerequiresamap/.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    With limited other options, insurance plays a critical role in 
getting households financial resources they need to rebuild their homes 
and replace damaged possessions. This is why insurance is a necessary 
component of securing financial resilience to disasters. In ongoing 
research, for example, a colleague and I find that after a hurricane, 
households with insurance are less likely to report high financial 
burdens both three months and a year after the disaster and are less 
likely to report having unmet funding needs. \3\ In the same paper, we 
find that widespread take-up of flood insurance improves local economic 
recovery by increasing visitations to local commercial establishments. 
This echoes other research by colleagues, which have similar findings 
that insurance improves recovery \4\ and that lack of flood insurance 
can widen inequality post-disaster. \5\
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     \3\ You, X. and Kousky, C. (2023). ``Improving Household and 
Community Disaster Recovery: Evidence on the Role of Insurance''. EDF 
Economics Discussion Paper 23-01. Available at SSRN: https://ssrn.com/
abstract=4365715 or http://dx.doi.org/10.2139/ssrn.4365715.
     \4\ For example: Turnham, J., K. Burnett, C. Martin, T. McCall, R. 
Juras, and J. Spader (2011). ``Housing Recovery on the Gulf Coast, 
Phase II: Results of Property Owner Survey in Louisiana, Mississippi, 
and Texas''. Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Housing and Urban 
Development, Office of Policy Development and Research. More studies 
reviewed in: Kousky, C. (2019). ``The Role of Natural Disaster 
Insurance in Recovery and Risk Reduction''. Annual Review of Resource 
Economics 11(3).
     \5\ Rhodes, A., and M. Besbris (2022). ``Soaking the Middle Class: 
Suburban Inequality and Recovery from Disaster''. New York: Russell 
Sage Foundation.
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    For over 50 years, the National Flood Insurance Program has been 
providing this necessary coverage for millions of households and 
businesses around the country. That said, we still face the challenge 
that many at-risk households are uninsured against flooding. FEMA 
estimates that on average nationwide, only about 35 percent of 
households in Special Flood Hazard Areas have flood insurance, while 
less than 2 percent of those outside this area have flood insurance. 
\6\ There is, however, high regional variation, with take-up rates much 
higher in communities along the Gulf and Atlantic coasts. \7\ But, as 
flood after flood reminds us, far too many Americans at risk do not 
have the necessary flood insurance coverage. This is driven by many 
factors, such as lack of public and accessible information on flood 
risk and the potential damages flooding can cause. In addition, those 
who need insurance the most are often simply unable to afford it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \6\ Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). 2018. ``An 
Affordability Framework for the National Flood Insurance Program''. 
Washington, DC, April 17.
     \7\ Kousky, C. (2018). ``Financing Flood Losses: A Discussion of 
the National Flood Insurance Program''. Risk Management and Insurance 
Review. 21(1): 11-32.
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    Those least able to afford insurance have greater need of financial 
protection since they have little access to other sources of recovery 
dollars. Without the resources to recover and obtain safe housing 
again, households must often cover recovery expenses in ways that have 
negative long-term impacts or limit their ability to build wealth, such 
as deferring medical expenses, falling behind on bills, or draining 
retirement savings. Research finds that after suffering flood or 
disaster damage, credit score declines, mortgage delinquencies, and 
bankruptcies are more likely for households that are financially 
constrained as well as those who live in a community of color. \8\ The 
need for more inclusive insurance is an important policy topic for 
other disaster and property insurance beyond flooding, as well. \9\
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     \8\ Ratcliffe, C., W. Congdon, T. Teles, A. Stanczyk, and C. 
Martin (2020). ``From Bad to Worse: Natural Disasters and Financial 
Health''. Journal of Housing Research 29 (sup1): S25-S53; Billings, 
S.B., E.A. Gallagher, and L. Ricketts (2022). ``Let the Rich Be 
Flooded: The Distribution of Financial Aid and Distress After Hurricane 
Harvey''. Journal of Financial Economics 146 (2): 797-819.
     \9\ Kousky, C., and K. French (2023). ``Inclusive Insurance for 
Climate-Related Disasters: A Roadmap for the United States''. Boston, 
Ceres: January.
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The Need To Lower Risk
    Insurance and risk reduction need to be viewed as complements. When 
the underlying risk is lowered, insurance becomes more affordable. Over 
its long history, FEMA and the NFIP have invested in efforts to lower 
flood risk and these efforts have paid dividends around the country. 
The NFIP minimum floodplain regulations provide communities baseline 
requirements to support less risky development, but updates to these 
requirements are now needed to reflect modern best practices and the 
realities of changing conditions. Grants to mitigate impacts to 
individual properties have reduced damages in many communities. And the 
Community Rating System, a program designed to reward communities that 
take actions to better manage flood risk, has led to lower flood claims 
and lower overall losses in participating communities, \10\ although 
some improvements could make it more widely accessible and help 
communities focus on the most impactful interventions.
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     \10\ Gourevitch, J.D., and N. Pinter (2023). ``Federal Incentives 
for Community-Level Climate Adaptation: An Evaluation of FEMA's 
Community Rating System''. Environmental Research Letters 18(3): 
034037; Highfield, W.E., and S.D. Brody (2017). ``Determining the 
Effects of the FEMA Community Rating System Program on Flood Losses in 
the United States''. International Journal of Disaster Risk Reduction 
21: 396-404; Kousky, C. and E. Michel-Kerjan (2015). ``Examining Flood 
Insurance Claims in the United States''. Journal of Risk and Insurance 
84(3): 819-850.
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    Beyond the NFIP, at this moment, there are more Federal dollars for 
reducing the losses from extreme climate events than have ever been 
previously available. This includes $3.5 billion to the Flood 
Mitigation Assistance Program from the Infrastructure Investment and 
Jobs Act, $2.3 billion in FY22 for the new Building Resilient 
Infrastructure in Communities (BRIC) grant program, $0.5 billion to the 
new State revolving loan funds (Safeguarding Tomorrow through Ongoing 
Risk Mitigation Act), as well as the $3.5 billion to the Hazard 
Mitigation Grant Program, due to the 4 percent set aside from the 
COVID-19 declarations. In addition, funding from the Community 
Development Block Grant-Disaster Relief (and CDBG-Mitigation) program, 
when authorized, can provide substantial funds for risk reduction. \11\ 
These dollars are creating important opportunities for States and local 
governments to invest in flood mitigation that will improve household 
and community resilience.
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     \11\ For more on this program see the testimony of Carlos E. 
Martin before the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, 
United States Senate, on December 15, 2021.
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    With such funds available, attention now needs to turn to helping 
communities access these funds, along with providing support for 
developing cost-effective, impactful, and equitable resilience 
projects. This is especially true for communities with fewer resources 
to navigate the sometimes challenging process of securing Federal grant 
funds.
    While this new funding is substantial, it is still far below 
demand. For instance, in 2022, FEMA received requests for the BRIC 
funding that were four times greater than the amount available to 
allocate, despite a record amount of funds to award. As the risk of 
climate extremes continues to grow, so will the need. There is, 
therefore, still more to do to help lower flood risk and the NFIP 
should play a key role, as it has throughout its long history, in those 
efforts. There are multiple places where the program could do more to 
support flood risk reduction.
    Several mitigation options for properties are quite expensive and 
policyholders simply do not have the necessary funds for such changes. 
When a property is damaged by a flood, it should be seen as an 
opportunity to build back in a way that lowers future damages. To 
support this, the NFIP could make greater funding available at the time 
of rebuilding to pay for investments in risk reduction and couple this, 
perhaps in partnership with local organizations, with action-oriented 
advice for policyholders.
    Currently, NFIP policies have Increased Cost of Compliance (ICC) 
coverage, which provides up to $30,000 when a property is substantially 
or repetitively damaged to bring it into compliance with current 
floodplain regulations (although subject to the overall cap on NFIP 
coverage of $250,000 for residential policies). \12\ While important, 
this program is underutilized by policyholders and does not go far 
enough in supporting investments in risk reduction at the time of 
rebuilding. \13\ The mitigation measures it supports include elevation, 
relocation, demolition, and floodproofing for nonresidential buildings. 
All of these are very expensive changes and ICC is typically 
insufficient. Higher ICC payouts could help cover the costs of these 
more expensive mitigation investments, but this requires a 
determination as to how to pay for these higher ICC payouts: should it 
remain an insurance coverage or be treated as a grant coupled to an 
NFIP policy? If the former, the NFIP would have to charge a higher 
premium for ICC coverage than it does today in order to cover the cost 
of higher payouts. In the latter case, the extra premium could be paid 
for with Federal funds, treating ICC more like a grant, and sparing 
policyholders the higher premium costs necessary to access greater 
post-flood dollars for resilient rebuilding.
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     \12\ Residential policies can only be insured up to $250,000 
through the NFIP. ICC payouts are also currently subject to that cap 
(so if someone received a claims payout, for example, of $240,000, they 
would only be eligible for $10,000 in ICC).
     \13\ Kousky, C., and B. Lingle (2017). ``The NFIP's Increased Cost 
of Compliance Coverage''. Wharton Risk Center Issue Brief. University 
of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia: Summer.
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    Second, the NFIP continues to have a group of highly risky 
properties that have seen repeated flooding--aptly named repetitive 
loss properties. They make up only a small share of policies, but a 
larger, and disproportionate, share of claims. From 1978 to 2015, just 
160,000 repetitive loss properties (about 3 percent of all policies) 
received $9 billion, or roughly 25 percent of all claims payments. \14\ 
Many observers of the program have argued for more aggressive 
mitigation of these properties. FEMA has suggested that Congress allow 
the program to stop insuring them altogether after a certain number of 
losses. Certainly, a private firm would never continue paying to 
rebuild a home that was destroyed time and time again. FEMA's proposal 
to stop insuring repetitive loss properties should be coupled to 
dedicated grant funds for mitigation of these properties to enable them 
to qualify for continued coverage or buyout funds for those homeowners 
ready to relocate somewhere safer.
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     \14\ See: NFIP (2017). ``Developing a Repetitive Loss Area 
Analysis for Credit under Activity 510 (Floodplain Management Planning) 
of the Community Rating System'', online at: https://crsresources.org/
files/500/rlaa-guide-2017.pdf.
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    Since the costs of continued occupancy are greater than the costs 
of relocation for these properties, they are often targeted for buyouts 
through certain mitigation grant programs. These programs provide 
Federal grant dollars for State and local governments to purchase risky 
properties and return them to open space in perpetuity. Unfortunately, 
these programs are too often missing important opportunities and 
wasting financial resources. Federal buyout dollars can take too long 
to reach homeowners ready to move after a damaging flood. \15\ 
Households--especially those of limited means--cannot wait for years 
for the buyout process to be undertaken. Floodplain managers have 
observed that at times, households may begin the rebuilding process to 
make their home safe for habitation, often using partial or full flood 
insurance payouts, since they need a safe place to live immediately, 
only to have the home demolished later in a buyout.
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     \15\ Wiley, H.J.P., and C. Kousky (2020). ``Speeding Up Post-
Disaster Housing Buyouts''. Solutions 11(3).
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    A critical reform would make some Federal buyout dollars available 
immediately after a flood or allow for local reimbursement of 
floodplain buyouts for repetitive loss properties. But the Federal 
delay is only one contributing factor to the often long timeframes for 
buyouts. Another source of delay comes from the administrative tasks 
required for local implementation of buyouts. These can be reduced 
through predisaster evaluation and prioritization of where buyouts will 
occur, which properties are eligible, and conducting the necessary 
appraisals and approvals. To encourage local communities with high-risk 
areas to complete this necessary predisaster work, the expedited or 
reimbursed Federal buyout funds could be tied to demonstration of a 
predisaster buyout planning process, perhaps piloted in repetitive loss 
areas. In addition, support could be made available for restoration of 
these properties to provide environmental benefits, including natural 
flood protection.
    While reforms such as these are needed across all communities, the 
Committee should also consider greater efforts, building on FEMA's 
current priority to support greater equity in its programs, to direct 
resources for both household and community level investments in flood 
mitigation to lower-income communities at high risk of floods. This 
will also require increases in technical support and easing the process 
for under-resourced communities to access Federal dollars. As noted 
earlier, this could help lower overall risk and thus also bring down 
the costs of insurance for those struggling to afford coverage.
    Finally, the program could provide greater incentives and 
information to support investments in low-cost mitigation options, 
since many homeowners simply do not have the funds to pay for high-cost 
mitigation, such as elevation, or the desire, funds, or ability to 
relocate. This includes actions such as improving grading around the 
home; using flood-resistant materials in basements or lower floors; 
elevating mechanicals, utilities, and appliances; reducing impervious 
surfaces around the home; installing flood vents or sump pumps; and 
sealing foundation and basement walls. \16\ According to FEMA, 
elevating machinery and equipment will now be given credit in premiums 
under Risk Rating 2.0. The only other two mitigation efforts receiving 
a premium credit are installing flood openings and elevation. While 
this is a good start, the ICC coverage could also be revised to allow 
the funds to be used for less costly mitigation, such as those just 
listed, even if unrelated to current building codes.
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     \16\ For more information, see: https://www.fema.gov/sites/
default/files/documents/fema_protect-your-home-from-flooding-
brochure_2020.pdf.
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Improving the Fiscal Soundness of the Program
    Insurance is predicated on the idea of risk pooling. When 
independent losses are grouped together, the aggregate loss is stable 
and well-predicted. Natural disasters, however, present a challenge. 
Losses from disasters are correlated--entire communities are hit 
simultaneously--and events themselves can be very severe. This 
possibility for extreme losses creates annual losses that are very 
spiky and can fluctuate wildly from one year to the next. To stay 
solvent, insurers must have access to enormous sums of capital to cover 
high loss years.
    The NFIP was originally designed to borrow from the U.S. Treasury 
when it faced losses that exceeded retained funds and premium revenues. 
This worked when the losses were never catastrophic. Hurricane Katrina 
and the 2005 hurricane season, however, disrupted this model and 
plunged the program into massive debt. Hurricanes in subsequent years 
only further added to the debt, including Hurricane Harvey, after which 
Congress forgave $16 billion. Still, with such severe losses and 
inadequate financing, the debt today stands at $20.5 billion.
    Debt is not a typical part of private insurance operations. 
Insurance companies collect most of their revenue in advance, before 
having to pay claims and expenses. While the NFIP is a public sector 
program, and thus financed quite differently, this large debt is 
unsustainable. FEMA now pays almost $1 million in interest daily; the 
program has paid over $5.7 billion in interest since 2005. \17\ The 
Union of Concerned Scientists notes that the program pays more in 
interest than it does for flood mapping and that interest payments are 
the third largest NFIP activity by cost. \18\ This is paid for entirely 
out of premium revenue, placing an unnecessary burden on policyholders 
and the program itself.
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     \17\ https://www.fema.gov/case-study/rising-interest-expenses
     \18\ Udvardy, S. (2021). ``Three Reasons the House Reconciliation 
Bill Is Good News for Flood Resilience and Communities''. The Union of 
Concerned Scientists: September 20.
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    All observers, including FEMA, \19\ the GAO, \20\ and others, have 
stressed that the NFIP will never be able to repay this debt. The 
program was simply never designed to be able to handle the catastrophic 
loss years it has faced. And the percentage of NFIP revenue that is 
consumed by debt services could increase from higher interest rates. 
There is not a path forward to repay this debt based on premiums 
without imposing untenable financial burdens on policyholders and 
undermining the ability of the program to pay claims. As such, all 
analysts of the program believe this debt must be forgiven. As David 
Maurstad, the Assistant Administrator for the Federal Insurance 
Directorate and Senior Executive of the NFIP said in a hearing last 
Friday: ``as currently structured, the program is burdened with 
interest expense and unable to pay this debt back in full.''
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     \19\ https://www.fema.gov/case-study/rising-interest-expenses
     \20\ GAO (2017). ``Comprehensive Reform Could Improve Solvency and 
Enhance Resilience''. U.S. Government Accountability Office, 
Washington, DC: April 27.
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    Forgiving the debt would allow the program to begin fresh with a 
new approach to fiscal soundness. FEMA has suggested additional reforms 
to contribute to this broader goal. One has already been undertaken, 
which is aligning prices with risk. GAO \21\ and other stakeholders 
have repeatedly raised concerns, especially in the years after 
Hurricane Karina, that the NFIP's approach to rate-setting failed to 
reflect risk at the property level, instead including multiple cross-
subsidies and discounts that led to perverse incentives. In response, 
over many years, FEMA modernized its approach to pricing, the result of 
which is Risk Rating 2.0. This new approach reduces cross-subsidies 
across flood zones and eliminates price ``cliffs,'' where, in the past, 
two properties at similar risk could have faced substantially different 
premiums if a flood zone boundary crossed between them. It also has 
undone a regressive cross-subsidy where higher values homes were paying 
too little and lower value homes paying too much.
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     \21\ GAO (2008). ``FEMA's Rate-Setting Process Warrants 
Attention''. U.S. Government Accountability Office, Washington, DC: 
December 1.
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    Risk Rating 2.0, however, did not include any type of means-tested 
assistance program, which is needed, but would require congressional 
authorization. Disaster insurance, including flood insurance, when 
risk-based, can be very expensive. \22\ Even with the NFIP only 
managing to a one-in-twenty year event, far lower than a private sector 
firm, prices in areas at high risk of flooding are going to be 
expensive, reflecting that risk. At the launch of Risk Rating 2.0, FEMA 
noted that just under a quarter of existing policyholders would see 
rate decreases and two-thirds would see premium increases of less than 
$10 per month. \23\ These numbers, however, were not full-risk rates, 
which are being phased in over time, but only the immediate premium 
changes. The program has not made information available on property-
level full-risk rates, but did last week release aggregate information 
on the average full-risk premiums for ZIP Codes, counties, and States. 
For a little more than a quarter of U.S. counties, the average full-
risk premium is greater than the average current cost of insurance by 
100 percent or more. Properties that have maintained insurance are on a 
glidepath to paying these higher rates, so they will not see the full 
cost for years to come, following a congressional cap on rate increases 
of 18 percent per year. But many households already cannot afford the 
current cost of flood insurance and the number struggling with flood 
insurance costs will continue to grow as the rates rise. For those not 
mandated to purchase flood coverage, many will drop their flood 
coverage.
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     \22\ Kousky, C. (2022). Understanding Disaster Insurance: New 
Tools for a More Resilient Future. Washington, DC: Island Press.
     \23\ https://www.fema.gov/flood-insurance/risk-rating
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    As has been noted by FEMA, \24\ the National Academy of Sciences, 
\25\ RAND, \26\ researchers, \27\ and many other stakeholders for at 
least a decade, Congress should authorize a means-tested assistance 
program to help low- and moderate-income households with the costs of 
flood insurance. Assistant Administrator Maurstad also stressed this 
again in his testimony last week. There has been substantial 
investigation into how to design such a program from the aforementioned 
groups. It is time to use that combined research to adopt and implement 
such a program. It should be supported, not by cross-subsidies within 
the program, but through taxpayer dollars. This is an important safety 
net, akin to other Federal safety net programs for those most in need. 
In addition, the affordability program should be scaled, so that the 
amount of support phases out as income increases. And it should be 
available to anyone--current or future policyholder--who wishes to 
purchase flood insurance.
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     \24\ FEMA. (2018). ``An Affordability Framework for the National 
Flood Insurance Program''. Department of Homeland Security, Federal 
Emergency Management Agency.
     \25\ National Research Council. (2015). Affordability of National 
Flood Insurance Premiums: Report 1. National Academies Press.
     \26\ Dixon, L., Clancy, N., et al. (2017). ``The Cost and 
Affordability of Flood Insurance in New York City: Economic Impacts of 
Rising Premiums and Policy Options for One- to Four-Family Homes''. 
RAND Corporation.
     \27\ Kousky, C. and H. Kunreuther (2014). ``Addressing 
Affordability in the National Flood Insurance Program''. Journal of 
Extreme Events (1)1: Article ID 1450001; Miller, B., Dixon, L. and N. 
Clancy (2019). ``Reasonable and Risk-Based? Replacing NFIP Generally 
Subsidized Rates with a Means-Tested Subsidy''. Southern Economics 
Journal 85(4): 1180-1195.
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Private Vs. Public Flood Insurance
    As everyone on this Committee knows, the NFIP was established over 
50-years ago in response to a lack of available flood coverage in the 
private sector. Floods are not the only peril for which the public 
sector has had to step in with support. Every State exposed to 
hurricanes has a so-called wind pool or beach plan for those who cannot 
find or afford wind coverage in the private market. California has the 
California Earthquake Authority, as well as their FAIR (Fair Access to 
Insurance Requirements) program, which is now writing increasing 
numbers of wildfire insurance policies. Federally, we have the 
Terrorism Risk and Insurance Program to backstop commercial terrorism 
coverage.
    These programs were typically put into place when a severe event 
made clear that there was insufficient availability or affordability 
from the private sector. The fact that losses can be so severe, and 
impact so many people simultaneously, means that some of the underlying 
principles of risk pooling, on which insurance is based, fail to hold 
for catastrophic risks. This makes disaster insurance fundamentally 
more expensive than nondisaster insurance. At times, there may not be 
any price at which insurance companies can profitably offer disaster 
coverage that consumers are able or willing to pay. These breakdowns in 
insurance markets, often witnessed after disasters, have led to the 
creation of many of the public sector programs just mentioned. This is 
also true internationally, where there is even greater variation in how 
such programs are designed.
    In the case of flooding, these difficult insurance dynamics for the 
private market, coupled with lack of information and understanding of 
flood risk on the part of both consumers and insurers, as well as 
ongoing concerns about adverse selection, led the NFIP to be the 
dominant source of flood insurance in the United States for decades. 
More recently, advances in data and modeling have improved 
understanding of the flood hazard and some private insurers have 
started to offer flood policies. According to data from the end of 2021 
from the National Association of Insurance Commissioners, \28\ at that 
time, about 9.4 percent of residential, first-dollar flood policies 
(those not written exclusive in excess of the NFIP coverage cap) were 
with the private sector.
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     \28\ Data online at: https://tableau.naic.org/views/
PFloodDataCall_16057353537510/
PurposeandExplanation?%3Aembed=y&%3AisGuestRedirectFromVizportal=y.
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    While private flood policies can provide consumers with more 
options, which could include better prices or more expansive coverage, 
it is unlikely the private sector will ever be able to provide flood 
insurance for a large share of those at risk. This is due to the 
difficulty just discussed with insuring catastrophic risks at a price 
point people can afford to pay. This will only be exacerbated as 
climate change and continued development increase flood risk in many 
places around the country. This could make private flood insurance 
simply unaffordable to many households at risk. And since flood losses 
can be catastrophic and threaten insurer solvency, many insurers simply 
do not want to take the risk onto their books at any feasible price 
point. Indeed, we are seeing private insurers pull back from all 
climate perils that are now increasing, such as insurers in Louisiana 
and Florida reducing their willingness to offer homeowner's insurance 
and some in California pulling back in the high wildfire risk areas of 
the State. As such, the NFIP will continue to play a dominant role in 
providing full indemnity flood insurance for the foreseeable future.
    That said, all of the various public disaster insurance programs--
here and around the world--struggle with the basic question of who 
should pay for disaster losses. Some other countries take a 
``solidarity'' approach to pricing disaster insurance, charging one 
flat fee to all residents (perhaps varying by property type or coverage 
limit). They make disaster insurance universal and compulsory. The 
United States has shied away from embracing a solidarity approach to 
pricing, but some stakeholders also eschew a fully market-based 
approach of pricing each property according to its individualized risk 
level, as this can be quite high in flood-prone locations. Some 
stakeholders advocate that pricing only on risk levels could encourage 
safer building and better decisions about where to build. And there are 
those who believe that if someone chooses to live in a risky area, it 
is their responsibility to shoulder the costs of that decision. But we 
also have households trapped in risky locations, in need of support to 
secure risk reduction and financial protection against disaster losses. 
In practice, most of the disaster insurance programs in the United 
States have cross-subsides (if sometimes implicit or hidden) that keep 
costs lower for those in high-risk areas. This is true for several of 
the State wind pools and was also historically true for the NFIP. None 
of our programs yet, however, provide assistance with premiums based on 
ability-to-pay.
Addressing Climate Change
    Flooding is the costliest natural disaster, and the risk is 
escalating in many places due to the combined effects of climate 
change, development, and land use decisions. Sea level rise has already 
led to an increased probability of coastal flooding, which will 
continue, and is projected to cause higher flood damages in the coming 
years. \29\ Climate-induced intensification of rainfall is also 
projected to increase flooding in certain parts of the United States 
and this, in turn, could escalate flood damages. \30\ It is not climate 
change alone, however, that is driving up flood risk. Our land use and 
development decisions have also, at times, increased flood risk. 
Decisions such as reducing impervious surface area, eliminating natural 
systems, such as wetlands, that can store floodwaters, continuing to 
build in areas known to be at high flood-risk, and failing to build in 
a way that is mindful of escalating risk, all worsen flooding.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \29\ Sweet, W.V., and J. Park (2014). ``From the Extreme to the 
Mean: Acceleration and Tipping Points of Coastal Inundation From Sea 
Level Rise''. Earth's Future 2(12): 579-600; Neumann, J.E., K. Emanuel, 
S. Ravela, L. Ludwig, P. Kirshen, K. Bosma, and J. Martinich (2015). 
``Joint Effects of Storm Surge and Sea-level Rise on U.S. Coasts: New 
Economic Estimates of Impacts, Adaptation, and Benefits of Mitigation 
Policy''. Climatic Change 129 (1-2): 337-349; Garner, A.J., M.E. Mann, 
K.A. Emanuel, R.E. Kopp, N. Lin, R.B. Alley, B.P. Horton, R.M. DeConto, 
J.P. Donnelly, and D. Pollard (2017). ``Impact of Climate Change on New 
York City's Coastal Flood Hazard: Increasing Flood Heights From the 
Preindustrial to 2300 CE''. Proceedings of the National Academy of 
Sciences 114(45): 11861-11866.
     \30\ Wobus, C., M. Lawson, R. Jones, J. Smith, and J. Martinich 
(2013). ``Estimating Monetary Damages From Flooding in the United 
States Under a Changing Climate''. Journal of Flood Risk Management 
7(3): 217-229; Mallakpour, I., and G. Villarini (2015). ``The Changing 
Nature of Flooding Across the Central United States''. Nature Climate 
Change 5(March): 250-254; Prein, A.F., C. Liu, K. Ikeda, S.B. Trier, 
R.M. Rasmussen, G.J. Holland and M.P. Clark (2017). ``Increased 
Rainfall Volume From Future Convective Storms in the U.S.''. Nature 
Climate Change 7(12): 880-884.
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    As climate change continues to intensify flood risk around the 
country, the costs of insurance will necessarily need to increase as 
well, absent subsidies to cover the growing risk. When many 
policyholders still are not paying rates adequate to today's risk--and 
many unable to afford the rates required for today's risk--this will 
create a growing challenge for the program.
    As noted earlier, the best way to address growing risk is to reduce 
it--not simply transfer it. This requires changing our land use and 
building practices in areas of increasing flood risk. As discussed 
previously, Congress has appropriated increased funds for such efforts, 
but more is needed to support climate adaptation. This should begin 
with a better understanding of future risks. The NFIP could provide 
information on future flood risks to communities around the country. 
The current flood risk maps are inadequate tools of risk communication. 
While the Special Flood Hazard Area (SFHA) boundary is necessary for 
enforcement of building codes and the mandatory purchase requirement, 
this should not be the basis for our risk communication and our risk 
disclosure laws.
    We have the tools and data now to provide graduated risk 
information at a property level across the country for today's risk, as 
well as the risk in the future under different climate scenarios. 
Before a community permits development or a family decides where to 
live, they should have an understanding of how the frequency of 
flooding might change, of the magnitude of those floods and their 
financial implications, and of the full cost of insurance today, 
including how it may change in the future. Right now, none of that 
information is easily available, creating information failures that can 
lead to poor decisions and information distortions in housing and 
mortgage markets.
    Of course, there is concern that for current homeowners in very 
risky areas, this important information transparency could cause 
economic harm by lowering the value of their home. Instead of 
sacrificing transparency about risks, we need to make it easier for 
current occupants of very high-risk properties to either mitigate their 
risk to preserve property values or to accept a floodplain buyout and 
maintain their financial position as risks escalate. This is true 
across income levels, but financially and climate-vulnerable 
communities will need additional help.
Conclusion
    Flood insurance has a critical role to play in promoting resilience 
by protecting households and businesses against negative financial 
shocks, speeding disaster recovery, and lowering risks before a 
disaster through financial incentives and after a disaster through 
greater resources for resilient rebuilding. All households need access 
to these benefits of insurance. This can be guaranteed by adoption of a 
means-tested assistance program to help lower-income households with 
the cost of flood insurance. In addition, as flood risk grows in the 
coming years, risk reduction is going to become more important as a key 
complement to insurance.
                                 ______
                                 
                  PREPARED STATEMENT OF ROY E. WRIGHT
  President and CEO, Insurance Institute for Business and Home Safety
                              May 2, 2023
    Members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to speak 
with you today about flooding, mitigation, and resilience. My name is 
Roy Wright, and I am President and CEO of the Insurance Institute for 
Business and Home Safety (IBHS). IBHS is a 501(c)(3) organization, 
enabled by the property insurance industry's investment, to conduct 
building safety research that leads to real-world solutions for home 
and business owners, helping to create more resilient communities.
    Before joining IBHS, I served at the Federal Emergency Management 
Agency (FEMA), where I was the Federal Insurance Administrator, the 
chief executive of the National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP). 
Complementing these insurance responsibilities, I led the agency's 
Federal Insurance and Mitigation Administration and directed the 
resilience programs addressing earthquake, fire, flood, and wind risks.
    Severe weather disrupts lives, displaces families, and drives 
financial loss. IBHS delivers top-tier science and translates it into 
action so we can prevent avoidable suffering, strengthen our homes and 
businesses, inform the insurance industry, and support thriving 
communities. The perils we study at IBHS are part of the natural world 
in which we live, but social and economic disasters occur when these 
perils meet human populations that live or work in harm's way. To break 
the cycle of destruction, it is essential to address all aspects of the 
building performance chain: where you build, how you design and 
construct, and how well you maintain and repair. As a building science 
institute, IBHS focuses on the ways that weather behaves, what makes 
homes and businesses vulnerable, and how our buildings can be more 
resilient. We exist to help ensure that the places where people live, 
learn, work, worship, and gather are safe, stable, and as strong as the 
best science can equip them to be.
    As noted, IBHS is enabled by the investment of our Members, 
property insurers and reinsurers. The core perils studied at the IBHS 
Research Center in Richburg, SC, are wind, wind-driven rain, hail, and 
wildfire. A set of IBHS member companies also provide critical services 
to the NFIP by writing and servicing NFIP flood insurance policies as 
part of the Write Your Own program. IBHS Members that participate in 
the Write Your Own program are proud to help bring flood insurance to 
millions of Americans.
    Today, drawing in part from my experiences at FEMA, I would like to 
speak with you about flood. With generational investments from the 
Inflation Reduction Act and the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act 
putting significant funds into mitigation programs across the Federal 
Government, the question is not whether more Federal funding is 
needed--it is how we can spend those funds most wisely. Urban 
communities experiencing coastal flooding make the news, but flooding 
is a national--not regional--problem. Suburban and rural communities 
across the Nation experience flooding, and many lack the expertise and 
resources to address the risk or even seek out Federal aid. We can do 
better by them. We can do better for them.
    When we direct meaningful resources to the right projects in the 
right communities, we can reduce flood risk and reduce the price of 
flood insurance. To this end, I will speak to the role of mitigation in 
FEMA's current approach to rating, Risk Rating 2.0; the most cost-
effective type of mitigation in the flood context; and the critical 
role that the Community Disaster Resilience Zones Act can play in 
guiding and prioritizing investments in flood mitigation.
    First, however, let me address squarely the one before you now: 
reauthorization. Nearly 1 year ago, on May 25, 2022, I testified the 
following before the House Committee on Financial Services' 
Subcommittee on Housing, Community Development, and Insurance: ``If the 
work of reauthorization was easy, Congress would have passed a simple, 
long-term re-authorization years ago.''
    What was true 1 year ago is, sadly, still true today. Congress will 
be wrapping up 7 years of reauthorization this fall. Unfortunately for 
flood insurance consumers and those responsible for leading the 
program, Congress has delivered those 7 years of reauthorization in 25 
small chunks. A reasonable, multiyear reauthorization would be best for 
the NFIP, best for the Write Your Own insurers that help make the 
program function, and, most importantly, best for the consumers that 
depend on the NFIP for flood insurance. As I asserted 1 year ago, 
Congress must pass long-term reauthorization that provides the program 
with political stability.
Risk Rating 2.0
    Risk Rating 2.0 aimed to make the NFIP's approach to setting flood 
insurance premiums more closely resemble the methodologies used for 
underwriting property risk across the covered perils insured in the 
United States. We are now more than a year into the implementation of 
Risk Rating 2.0, and this objective is being accomplished. The price of 
flood insurance is being tied to the risk of the properties being 
insured--just like other perils and other lines of insurance. (It is 
good and right when a Government-run program follows the business and 
actuarial practices used across the private-sector property insurance 
industry.)
There Is No Greater Risk Communication Tool Than a Pricing Signal
    Insurance is founded on the principle that price is driven by 
risk--whether it is due to the higher replacement cost of the 
structure, the escalated value of the home, or a more precise 
understanding of the flood risk on a given parcel. Rates must be 
grounded in sound actuarial practices. For some households, this means 
reductions in the price of flood insurance. For others, those who live 
in high-risk areas, policyholders are seeing rising prices that reflect 
that risk. In a time when so many point to the effects of climate 
change and its growing effect on severe weather's impact on our homes, 
we cannot say that the flood risk is growing and then expect the price 
of that risk to be cheaper. That does not compute.
    Indeed, one of the intended goals of Risk Rating 2.0 is 
transparency and communication--for FEMA to better communicate flood 
risk realities. While the price of flood insurance is sending the 
intended signal about rising flood risk across the Nation, more should 
be done to help understand that risk--to peel back the veils and 
identify what is driving risk and, crucially, how to mitigate it in 
meaningful ways.

    Floodplain managers, mitigation professionals, mitigation 
        service providers, and consumers need to understand what 
        specific factors are driving risk rate and how to bend that 
        risk curve down;

    Builders, developers, and property owners with financial 
        resources must understand why they should invest in flood 
        resilience on the front end, so taxpayers do not have to foot 
        the bill on the back end; and

    Policymakers, particularly at the local level, need to know 
        how to best direct limited resources that will make a 
        difference for their communities.

    As with any major program update, the levers in the system likely 
require adjustment during implementation. Within the individual home 
and community mitigation domains, decision makers require more insight. 
I encourage FEMA to provide tools so these stakeholders can understand 
the most significant drivers of flood risk for specific properties and 
communities, and how different mitigation actions, at the property or 
community level, would lower the dial of risk and lead to reduced 
pricing.
Cost-Effective Mitigation Investments
    The built environment should be constructed to withstand the 
natural perils we know to exist. Federal dollars spent on housing and 
other structures should only be spent once--especially when we know how 
to build in ways that withstand Mother Nature's fury. And make no 
mistake: the solutions to make our homes, schools, businesses, and 
other structures stronger, safer, and more resilient to severe weather 
are not just knowable, they are known. Particularly at a time when 
generational investments are making our housing and other 
infrastructure greener, we must couple that with actions that will 
ensure our new energy and water efficient structures are sufficiently 
resilient to withstand all knowable risks.
    IBHS is in the business of conducting building science research 
that cannot be done elsewhere, identifying vulnerabilities in our homes 
and businesses that are susceptible to severe weather. We have 
identified solutions that make roofs stronger and homes better able to 
withstand hurricanes, tornadoes, and severe convective storms. We have 
developed a suite of mitigation actions that, when undertaken 
collectively, meaningfully drives down risk of wildfire ignition. The 
science on flood mitigation is more straightforward than the other 
natural perils:

    build higher and stronger (elevate),

    get out of the way of the water (relocate), or

    redirect the water (drainage and flood infrastructure 
        projects).

    While the science is clear, the path to bring these solutions to 
flood-prone homes and communities is far less clear.
    Both elevation and buy-outs are expensive. Two recent initiatives 
will help. First, the Safeguarding Tomorrow through Ongoing Risk 
Mitigation (STORM) Act creates a mechanism by which States can create 
revolving loan funds to help communities pay for expensive mitigation 
actions. Second, FEMA's Swift Current Initiative explores incorporating 
repetitive loss home acquisition programs (buyouts) into the disaster 
recovery timeframe. This would be a hugely constructive step. FEMA buy-
outs of repetitive loss properties have historically taken years--often 
culminating 5 years after the event, during which time there could be 
multiple floods, multiple claims, and multiple disruptions to the 
homeowner's life. It is neither good financial policy nor good people 
policy. I am hopeful Swift Current will break this cycle of wasted 
resources and disrupted lives.
    While these advances are welcome, it remains the case that there is 
no way to efficiently tackle meaningful flood mitigation actions at a 
property-level. (Property-level mitigation actions are the first order 
projects for wind and wildfire risk.) A single flood elevation or 
relocation project changes the experiences for a single family, yet it 
does not bend down the risk curve. Neighborhood-scale endeavors are 
best. Elevate a full block of homes and the entire neighborhood returns 
after the water recedes. Buy-out a couple blocks of a subdivision to 
leave room for the water and the first responders don't need to 
approach the area during the flood--there will be no one requiring 
rescue.
    Neighborhood-scale and infrastructure flood mitigation investments 
work. When the punishing winds and associated storm surge of Hurricane 
Ida barreled toward New Orleans, we held our collective breaths and 
wondered: would the billions in flood infrastructure hold back the 
water? The answer, thankfully, was yes. While too many homeowners 
experienced devastating and preventable losses from Ida's winds, the 
flood systems worked and homes in New Orleans were spared flood damage.
    A final note on investing in flood resilience. Using mitigation 
grants to reduce risk to existing structures and communities is 
inherently reactive. Grants help us address previously made choices--
both where and how we built our homes and communities. We need to 
become more proactive in our approach to flood resilience--this means 
more and better planning, mapping, floodplain management standards, and 
building codes.
    We cannot keep putting structures in harm's way, and then question 
why we keep having billion-dollar floods. Unless we drive down 
tomorrow's risks today, we will stay trapped in a cycle of asking our 
children to pay for our short-sighted choices.
Directing Resources Where They Are Most Needed
    Even with the increased efficiencies of mitigation flood risk at a 
community scale, there is still more need--more risk--than even the 
generational investment of recent legislation can address. Hard choices 
must be made.
    Fortunately, we have a new tool to identify the communities that 
have the highest risk and the highest need. I commend the 117th 
Congress for passing the Community Disaster Resilience Zones (CDRZ) 
Act, which established a statutory structure to identify and designate 
those communities that are both most in need and at risk to natural 
hazards including riverine and coastal flooding. It also authorizes the 
President to provide CDRZ-designated communities with assistance and 
funding for predisaster mitigation planning and projects to increase 
resilience against the identified hazards.
    According to sociological research, disabled, elderly, low income, 
and other vulnerable people are less likely to prepare for disasters, 
evacuate safely, avoid physical or psychological trauma, or recover 
quickly and fully. Low-income residents account for a meaningful 
percentage of the population in many coastal communities and other 
areas that face flood risk, often living in the most vulnerable types 
of housing. CDRZ will help to identify the communities that need 
investment in community-scale mitigation actions the most, and help to 
direct resources toward those communities.
    To repeat a point I made earlier, there will never be enough 
taxpayer money to pay for the flood mitigation we need in this country. 
The power of the CDRZ approach is that it can facilitate a whole-of-
Government approach, bringing together the entire Federal family of 
departments and agencies; State, local, Tribal, and territorial 
entities; and--critically--the philanthropic and private sectors. In 
implementing CDRZ, FEMA should bring together these partners to build 
coalitions of stakeholders that will help the communities that need it 
most, including rural and suburban communities that are too often left 
behind when it comes to Federal mitigation grants.
    CDRZ holds even more potential should Congress expand its usage to 
encourage investment by the private sector. When private investment is 
incentivized in these resilience zones, we will be less reliant on 
Government grant funding to solve these problems.
    In closing, I will return to insurance--the basis of today's 
hearing. Informed deployment of community-scale mitigation investments 
will do more than reduce the damage, disruption, and dislocation that 
too often accompanies significant flooding. Just as low-income 
households are least able to withstand the physical dangers of natural 
disasters, they are likewise least able to withstand the associated 
financial burdens--including the cost of flood insurance. Under Risk 
Rating 2.0, flood mitigation investments made in communities should 
drive down both flood risk and the cost of flood insurance. Together 
with means-tested subsidies that provide financial assistance without 
masking the real risk, community-scale flood investments can help 
lessen the financial burden of flood insurance.
    I thank you for the recognizing the importance of both physical and 
financial resilience as Americans continue to contend with devastating 
floods across our country. I appreciate the opportunity to share some 
of our ideas with you today.
                                 ______
                                 
                 PREPARED STATEMENT OF PATTY HERNANDEZ
                Executive Director, Headwaters Economics
                              May 2, 2023
    Thank you, Chairman Brown, Ranking Member Scott, and Members of the 
Committee.
    I'm the Executive Director of Headwaters Economics, an independent 
nonprofit organization based in Montana. \1\ We work on community 
development, primarily with Government partners at the local, State, 
and Federal levels.
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     \1\ Headwaters Economics is an independent, nonprofit research 
group whose mission is to improve community development and land 
management decisions. https://headwatersecono
mics.org/
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    I'm here today to share how mitigation efforts that start before 
disasters strike can reduce burdens on Federal disaster programs and 
make communities safer and more prosperous.
    At Headwaters Economics, we run free technical assistance programs 
that help rural communities reduce their flood \2\ and wildfire risks. 
\3\ We've worked with more than 100 communities across the country, and 
we've learned a lot about local needs and what successful disaster 
mitigation looks like. We're seeing proof that mitigation works. It 
yields cost savings for taxpayers and protects property and 
livelihoods.
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     \2\ FloodWise Community Assistance: https://
floodwise.headwaterseconomics.org/.
     \3\ Community Planning Assistance for Wildfire: https://
cpaw.headwaterseconomics.org/.
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    One of our partners is the rural community of Three Forks, Montana. 
In 2021, new floodplain maps showed that its risk of catastrophic 
flooding was much higher than previously understood. Most of Three 
Forks was mapped as having high risk with a large part as floodway--
essentially a no-build zone. This community offers some of the last 
remaining options for affordable housing in southwest Montana, and the 
implications of the new flood maps were dire. Kelly Smith, the city 
clerk and floodplain administrator, told me she was so devastated she 
nearly left her job. The residents were rightfully scared of what would 
happen to their insurance premiums and their property values. The 
future of Three Forks--a strong rural community--was in jeopardy.
    We partnered with Three Forks city staff and local elected 
officials, Montana State agencies, and local engineers to find an 
innovative infrastructure solution that could eliminate nearly all the 
flood risk. The project creates a grass-lined channel that captures 
flood waters and directs it back into the Jefferson River, preserving 
the land for cattle grazing and protecting the town.
    The cost of this project is $5 million--which is much less than the 
expected $60 million in losses if a flood were to occur in Three Forks, 
but still far out of reach for a rural community. After one failed 
attempt at a FEMA BRIC grant, \4\ followed by technical assistance from 
FEMA Region 8 staff, in 2022 the partnership successfully secured the 
largest FEMA Flood Mitigation Assistance grant ever awarded to a 
Montana community. \5\
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     \4\ Flavelle C. 2021. ``Infrastructure Bill Makes First Major U.S. 
Investment in Climate Resilience''. New York Times. https://
www.nytimes.com/2021/11/06/climate/infrastructure-bill-climate.html
     \5\ FEMA. 2022. ``Montana: Mitigation Affordability, Climate 
Resiliency and Economic Vitality for a Small Community Confluence 
Project''. https://www.fema.gov/case-study/three-forks-city-montana
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    This project will protect residents and businesses, preserve 
workforce housing and agricultural land, and will help avoid future 
NFIP claims. It's an excellent example of how flood mitigation 
investments can reduce insurance burdens on homeowners and taxpayers.
    But an important part of this story is what didn't work so well and 
what we can do about it.
    Communities like Three Forks have a hard time funding mitigation 
before a disaster. Federal agencies have importantly directed more 
resources to vulnerable communities recently, but rural and low-
capacity communities are at risk of being left behind. Affluent urban 
communities are more than twice as likely to win mitigation grants than 
their rural and Tribal counterparts. This is because large cities like 
New York have experienced staff available to coordinate partnerships, 
write grant proposals, and secure financial resources.
    To better understand the challenges faced by rural communities, 
Headwaters Economics developed the Rural Capacity Index, which measures 
whether communities have the local government staff--like planners and 
engineers--and other resources necessary to secure resources. \6\ Our 
Rural Capacity Map shows that thousands of communities across America 
lack the capacity required to access disaster mitigation funding. In 
Montana alone, we found that 65 percent of communities don't have 
adequate capacity to access Federal resilience funding. More than 
three-quarters of communities in the Midwest have low capacity, and 
more than half of communities in the Gulf, Southeast, and West have low 
capacity.
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     \6\ Headwaters Economics. 2022. ``A Rural Capacity Map''. https://
headwaterseconomics.org/equity/rural-capacity-map/
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    Low-capacity communities may miss out on other important benefits 
that come with mitigation, such as housing affordability. For example, 
22 million Americans live in mobile and manufactured homes. These homes 
are the largest source of unsubsidized affordable housing in the United 
States. \7\ We found that one-in-seven mobile homes across the country 
is in an area with high flood risk. \8\ When a disaster hits these 
communities, as we are seeing more and more often, it can dramatically 
erode the local housing supply, rents go up, homelessness increases, 
and the disruption can last for years. \9\ Better access to mitigation 
resources would allow communities to invest in more durable housing. 
Mitigation can be a win for homeowners and renters alike, as well as 
the builders and construction workers who make these projects a 
reality.
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     \7\ Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. 2021. ``Manufactured 
Housing Finance: New Insights From the Home Mortgage Disclosure Act 
Data''. https://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/documents/cfpb-
manufactured-housing-finance-new-insights-hmda-report-2021-05.pdf
     \8\ Headwaters Economics. 2022. ``Mobile Home Residents Face 
Higher Flood Risk''. https://headwaterseconomics.org/natural-hazards/
mobile-home-flood-risk/
     \9\ Rumbach, A., Sullivan, E., and Makarewicz, C. 2020. ``Mobile 
Home Parks and Disasters: Understanding Risk to the Third Housing Type 
in the United States''. Natural Hazards Review, 21(2).
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    But there are still thousands of communities that don't have the 
capacity to even get started.
    So what can we do? I'll share our top solutions.
    First, let's fix the huge gap in technical assistance. Local 
governments typically bear most of the responsibility in planning and 
implementing mitigation projects, yet a lack of resources, technical 
expertise, and staff too often create enormous barriers. \10\ Programs 
administered by State or Federal agencies or by nonprofit partners can 
support project identification, design, and implementation, as well as 
assistance in compiling grant proposals.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \10\ Tyler, J., Sadiq, A.A., and Noonan, D.S. (2019). ``A Review 
of the Community Flood Risk Management Literature in the USA: Lessons 
for Improving Community Resilience to Floods''. Natural Hazards, 96, 
1223-1248.
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    Second, there's much we can do to streamline how communities access 
mitigation funding. Several strategies can be deployed:

    Make Federal disaster mitigation programs more predictable 
        and consistent for communities. Programs like HUD's Community 
        Development Block Grant Disaster Recovery (CDBG-DR) program has 
        been only renewed on an ad hoc basis. The ad hoc renewal 
        doesn't give communities or agencies the predictability they 
        need to make effective plans. It also results in a significant 
        lag between when a qualifying disaster occurs and when the 
        funding gets on the ground. \11\ Authorization could help get 
        needed funding to communities sooner and more efficiently. It 
        would decrease administrative burdens for the agency and for 
        communities by streamlining rules in the Federal Register.
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     \11\ Martin, C., Teles, D., and DuBois, N. 2022. Understanding the 
Pace of HUD's Disaster Housing Recovery Efforts. Housing Policy Debate, 
32(1), 102-127.

    Reduce local match requirements. Surveys have found that 
        rural local governments have higher levels of fiscal stress 
        than their urban counterparts. \12\ Local match requirements on 
        grants compound these difficulties. More than 60 percent of 
        resilience funding in the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law 
        requires a local match. \13\ Some funding programs even score 
        applicants higher if they can provide more than the minimum 
        local match, making it more difficult for smaller communities 
        to compete. \14\ Match requirements could be eliminated or 
        reduced, and the definition of what qualifies for ``match'' 
        could be expanded to include long-term maintenance costs.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \12\ Lobao, L., and Kelly, P. ``Local Governments Across Rural 
America: Status, Challenges and Positioning for the Future''. Investing 
in Rural Prosperity, Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, 81-92.
     \13\ Headwaters Economics. 2023. ``Match Requirements Prevent 
Rural and Low-Capacity Communities From Accessing Climate Resilience 
Funding''. https://headwaterseconomics.org/equity/match-requirements/
     \14\ Clancy, N. 2022. ``The Building Resilient Infrastructure and 
Communities Mitigation Grant Program: Incorporating Hazard Risk and 
Social Equity Into Decisionmaking Processes''. RAND Corporation. 
https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RRA1258-1.html

    Refine scoring criteria to prioritize equity and safety. 
        Application requirements and scoring criteria disadvantage 
        certain geographies, particularly rural areas, places with 
        lower incomes, and Tribal communities. Federal agencies should 
        prioritize equity and public safety, such as by eliminating or 
        de-emphasizing benefit-cost formulas in the application 
        process. Benefit-cost analyses are technical reports that are 
        expensive and highly specialized, typically requiring that 
        communities hire expensive external consultants. Additionally, 
        benefit-cost analyses often undervalue the benefits of projects 
        in lower-capacity and lower-income communities, prioritizing 
        property values over people. \15\ Recent changes proposed by 
        the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs \16\ are a 
        step in the right direction, but more is needed to address the 
        equity challenges of benefit-cost analyses.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \15\ Headwaters Economics. 2021. Improving benefit-cost analyses 
for rural areas. https://headwaterseconomics.org/equity/improving-
benefit-cost-analyses/
     \16\ The White House. 2023. Strengthening our Regulatory System 
for the 21st Century. https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/briefing-room/
2023/04/06/strengthening-our-regulatory-system-for-the-21st-century/

    Shift money into direct allocations. For low-capacity 
        communities with high risk of flooding or other disasters, 
        direct funding could be the most efficient way to avoid the 
        cost of disasters. Shifting more money into block grants and 
        direct allocations, as opposed to competitive grants, can help 
        ease some of the unique burdens faced by rural communities and 
        increase the geographic distribution of funds. For instance, 
        increasing the State allocation and Tribal set-aside pools in 
        FEMA's BRIC program could help more States access funding and 
        encourage smaller, high-impact projects that create 
        communitywide benefits. Competitive national programs can also 
        be stratified to ensure more funding reaches rural communities 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        and interior States.

    Increase rural community capacity to compete for funding. 
        Federal support for local government capacity and economic 
        diversification would dramatically improve the ability of rural 
        communities to access funds. For example, Federal programs 
        could leverage non-Federal partnerships to scale up technical 
        assistance for grant writing, project scoping and plan 
        development, and coordination among stakeholders. Funding 
        regional projects that leverage urban-rural partnerships can 
        also benefit low-capacity communities. \17\ Investing in 
        regional institutions and organizations that can help 
        coordinate resources and prioritize projects may also be 
        necessary. Finally, Federal funding programs can prioritize 
        projects that result in economic diversification in order to 
        help communities generate predictable local revenue needed for 
        disaster mitigation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \17\ Dabson, B. 2019. ``Regional Solutions for Rural and Urban 
Challenges''. State and Local Government Review, 51(4), 283-291.

    Overall, we can encourage Federal agencies to prioritize mitigation 
funding for low-capacity communities. The existing strategies for 
reaching disadvantaged communities are failing to reach rural parts of 
this country. This is partly reflected in the $5.6 billion in funding 
requests for FEMA resilience funding this year, far exceeding the $3.1 
billion available. \18\ But imagine how many communities simply didn't 
have the resources or expertise to even apply.
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     \18\ FEMA. 2023. Hazard Mitigation Assistance (HMA) FY 2022 BRIC 
and FMA subapplication status. https://www.fema.gov/fact-sheet/hazard-
mitigation-assistance-hma-fy-2022-bric-and-fma-subapplications-
submissions
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    All of these strategies will yield large savings from avoided 
losses. These strategies will alleviate pressure on post-disaster 
programs like NFIP and allow projects to move forward--projects that 
will reduce risk, protect homes and businesses, and make communities 
safer and more attractive places to live.
    Thank you for your time and for bringing attention to these issues.
         RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF CHAIR BROWN
                      FROM CAROLYN KOUSKY

Q.1. The National Flood Insurance Program is carrying a debt of 
$20.5 billion due to catastrophic events dating to Hurricane 
Katrina in 2005. FEMA has been making interest payments of 
approximately $1 million per day, with expectations that 
payments will increase due to rising interest rates. Is it your 
understanding that the program's revenues from policy premiums 
will never pay back the debt to the Treasury, and that Congress 
must forgive the debt?

A.1. Yes, that is my understanding. FEMA, the GAO, and others, 
have all stressed that the NFIP will never be able to repay 
this debt. It is now burdening policyholders and should be 
forgiven.

Q.2. I worked in a bipartisan manner to include additional 
investments in FEMA's Flood Mitigation Assistance program in 
the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act. This legislation 
also reduced barriers for lower-income homeowners and 
communities in accessing the funds. Is this funding sufficient 
to meet the demand for mitigation actions?

A.2. The additional funding and the improvements in access for 
lower-income homeowners and communities are incredibly 
important investments in lowering the risk of disasters and I 
commend Congress for these changes. In addition, infusions of 
grant funds to the Hazard Mitigation Grant Program from the 4 
percent COVID-19 set-aside and appropriations to the FEMA 
Building Resilient Infrastructure and Communities (BRIC) 
program mean that combined, there is now an unprecedented 
amount of mitigation funding available. While demand does still 
outpace supply (for instance, BRIC has been oversubscribed), I 
believe the priority now is to ensure that these funds are used 
to support cost-effective, impactful, and equitable resilience 
projects.

Q.3. The Committee had a hearing in December 2021 on 
authorizing the Community Development Block Grant-Disaster 
Recovery program. Recognizing that the NFIP and CDBG-DR are 
complementary to community resilience, is it your opinion that 
authorization of the program would improve the program's 
consistency and predictability?

A.3. Yes. Existing policy analysis suggests that permanent 
authorization of CDBG-DR would improve consistency, provide 
applicants with planning certainty, and speed the process of 
obtaining and using funds.
                                ------                                


       RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR WARNOCK
                      FROM CAROLYN KOUSKY

Q.1. As you noted in your testimony, the reauthorization of the 
National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP) presents an opportunity 
to make important policy changes, such as updating flood maps, 
improving risk assessment and mitigation efforts, and promoting 
more sustainable development in flood-prone areas. These 
changes could help to reduce the financial and human costs of 
flooding in the United States.
    What specific changes can be made to the risk rating 
methodology used by the NFIP to ensure that premiums accurately 
reflect flood risk? How, if at all, does the current 
methodology limit NFIP's ability to accurately price risk and, 
in turn, adequately protect policy holders?

A.1. Risk Rating 2.0 now allows FEMA to harness modern data and 
modeling to better reflect rates at a property level. That 
said, insurance prices in high-risk areas can be expensive. 
This new, risk-based approach to pricing was adopted without a 
means-tested assistance program, which is needed to ensure that 
all households can access the financial protection of flood 
insurance.

Q.2. What measures would help increase the uptake of flood 
insurance among homeowners and businesses, particularly in 
high-risk areas where coverage is most urgently needed?

A.2. Two approaches are needed to help increase uptake of flood 
insurance. The first is the adoption of a means-tested 
assistance program to help those who could not otherwise afford 
the costs of flood insurance. Many studies have been undertaken 
on how to structure this type of program, such as those by 
FEMA, the National Academy of Sciences, and RAND. The program 
should be supported, not by cross-subsidies, but through 
taxpayer dollars. This is an important safety net, akin to 
other Federal safety net programs for those most in need. In 
addition, the affordability program should be scaled, so that 
the amount of support phases out as income increases. And it 
should be available to anyone--current or future policyholder--
who wishes to purchase flood insurance.
    Second, we need to improve communication of flood risk. The 
current FEMA maps are too simplistic, often out-of-date, fail 
to include rainfall flooding, and do not show areas where risk 
is increasing. Flood risk varies considerably across the 
landscape and the current approach to flood risk communication 
of being ``in'' or ``out'' of the Special Flood Hazard Area 
(SFHA) designation on NFIP maps is misleading. We also need to 
provide better information on the cost of flood insurance 
earlier in the home buying process. The risk-based premiums 
should be easily accessible at any time by anyone and not kept 
hidden from potential consumers. This is needed to make sure 
people locate in areas where the risk is at a level they can 
afford.
                                ------                                


          RESPONSE TO WRITTEN QUESTION OF CHAIR BROWN
                      FROM PATTY HERNANDEZ

Q.1. The Committee had a hearing in the last Congress on 
authorizing the Community Development Block Grant-Disaster 
Recovery program. Do you believe that authorization of CDBG-DR, 
versus the current ad hoc nature, would deliver much needed 
funding to communities sooner? Would this correspond with 
improving community resilience?

A.1. Authorizing HUD's Community Development Block Grant 
Disaster Recovery (CDBG-DR) could improve the program's 
consistency and predictability. The current ad hoc nature of 
CDBG-DR does not give communities or agencies the 
predictability they need to make effective plans. It also 
results in a significant lag between when a qualifying disaster 
occurs and when the funding gets on the ground. \1\ 
Authorization could help get needed funding to communities 
sooner and more efficiently, helping strengthen community 
resilience. It would also decrease administrative burdens for 
the agency and for communities by streamlining rules in the 
Federal Register.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \1\ Martin, C., Teles, D., and DuBois, N. 2022. ``Understanding 
the Pace of HUD's Disaster Housing Recovery Efforts''. Housing Policy 
Debate, 32(1), 102-127.
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                                ------                                


       RESPONSES TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR WARNOCK
                      FROM PATTY HERNANDEZ

Q.1. By investing in measures to prevent or minimize damage 
from floods, such as building levees, elevating homes, or 
creating green infrastructure, communities can reduce the 
likelihood and severity of future flood events. This, in turn, 
can lower the risk of flood insurance claims and payouts and 
help keep the National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP) 
financially solvent.
    How effective are the existing mitigation incentives in 
promoting homeowners to undertake flood risk reduction 
measures? What additional measures would help encourage such 
efforts? Please provide any information on the efficacy of 
these measures.

A.1. Insurance-related incentives, including access to 
federally backed mortgages and insurance premium reductions 
achieved through community participation in the NFIP Community 
Rating System, can encourage homeowners to pursue risk 
reduction.
    However, homeowner incentives alone have not accomplished 
adequate levels of flood risk reduction. Two types of 
additional measures are needed. First, FEMA flood risk map 
updates and the associated equitable application of premiums 
are needed to encourage broader participation in NFIP. Second, 
Federal investment is needed to fund communitywide flood 
infrastructure and watershed scale flood risk-reduction 
solutions.
    Communitywide solutions, including projects such as 
conveyance channels, detention basins, and wetland restoration, 
are often the most cost-effective methods for reducing flood 
risk. Importantly, Federal programs that fund communitywide 
flood risk-reduction projects, such as FEMA's Building 
Resilience Infrastructure and Communities (BRIC) do not have 
sufficient funding to meet demand. In FY 2022, demand for BRIC 
funding exceeded available revenue by more than half, a $2 
billion gap. Continued support from Congress is needed to 
ensure that BRIC and other Federal resilience programs can help 
communities avoid future flood disasters.

Q.2. What are the legal and regulatory barriers to implementing 
mitigation strategies? What steps can Congress take to address 
these barriers?

A.2. In order to address legal and regulatory barriers to 
implementing flood mitigation strategies, Congress can:

    Encourage more efficient and coordinated 
        administrative processes in Federal agencies. The 
        number of months--sometimes years--required to navigate 
        FEMA, Army Corps of Engineers, and other Federal agency 
        processes discourages communities from pursuing and 
        achieving successful flood mitigation.

    Ensure there is sufficient capacity in Federal 
        agencies. FEMA mitigation programs lack the staff and 
        financial resources to deploy technical assistance to 
        communities at a scale that meets demands. \2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \2\ U.S. Government Accountability Office. 2023. ``FEMA Disaster 
Workforce: Actions Needed To Improve Hiring Data and Address Staffing 
Gaps''. May 2, 2023. https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-23-105663

    Reform policies that inadvertently discourage 
        communities from pursuing flood mitigation. Burdensome 
        grant application processes and local match 
        requirements discourage rural and low-capacity 
        communities from applying for Federal resilience 
        grants. Despite this, more than 60 percent of 
        resilience funding in the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law 
        requires a local match. \3\ Some funding programs even 
        score applicants higher if they can provide more than 
        the minimum local match, making it more difficult for 
        smaller communities to compete. \4\ Match requirements 
        could be eliminated or reduced, and the definition of 
        what qualifies for ``match'' could be expanded to 
        include long-term maintenance costs. Additionally, the 
        benefit-cost analysis (BCA) required in many 
        applications can inadvertently disqualify projects in 
        disadvantaged communities due to low property values, 
        leading to inequitable distributions in Federal 
        mitigation funding. BCA criteria should be revised and 
        broadened beyond property values to accommodate social 
        and environmental benefits.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     \3\ Headwaters Economics. 2023. ``Match Requirements Prevent Rural 
and Low-Capacity Communities From Accessing Climate Resilience 
Funding''. https://headwaterseconomics.org/equity/match-requirements/
     \4\ Clancy, N. 2022. ``The Building Resilient Infrastructure and 
Communities Mitigation Grant Program: Incorporating Hazard Risk and 
Social Equity Into Decision-Making Processes''. RAND Corporation. 
https://www.rand.org/pubs/research-reports/RRA1258-1.html

Q.3. How can technology be leveraged to improve flood risk 
modeling and inform mitigation efforts and do these 
capabilities exist or are capable of existing under the NFIP's 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
current structure?

A.3. Data and technology should be used to modernize flood risk 
maps. Every community in the United States needs access to 
accurate flood risk maps that represent current levels of risk. 
However, hydrologic maps of flood risk alone do not paint a 
full picture of the need for solutions. Hydrologic maps need to 
be paired with data about socioeconomic vulnerabilities to 
inform flood policies and practices, including the 
establishment of NFIP rates and the ability of Federal agencies 
to deploy technical assistance in communities that are 
suffering disproportionate impacts from flood events.
    Additionally, Federal agencies working to support flood 
mitigation can do a better job making their data actionable. 
Community leaders need uncomplicated tools, including online 
data visualizations, to prioritize flood mitigation and secure 
funding. Good examples of actionable data tools that support 
disaster mitigation include Wildfire Risk to Communities 
(https://wildfirerisk.org/) and the associated Community 
Wildfire Defense Grants application tool (https://
wildfirerisk.org/cwdg-tool/). Similar tools could be developed 
and supported by the NFIP program.
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