[Senate Hearing 118-414]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                        S. Hrg. 118-414

                 AVOIDING, DETECTING AND CAPTURING 
                  METHANE EMISSIONS FROM LANDFILLS

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                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                            JANUARY 31, 2024

                               __________

  Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works
  
 [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 


        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
        
                                 __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
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               COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
                             SECOND SESSION

                  THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware, Chairman
          SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia, Ranking Member

BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland         PKEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont             CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island     MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma
JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon                 PETE RICKETTS, Nebraska
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts      JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan            ROGER WICKER, Mississippi
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska
ALEX PADILLA, California             LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina
JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania

               Courtney Taylor, Democratic Staff Director
               Adam Tomlinson, Republican Staff Director


                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

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                                                                   Page

                            JANUARY 31, 2024
                            
                           OPENING STATEMENTS

Carper, Hon. Thomas R., U.S. Senator from the State of Delaware..     1
Capito, Hon. Shelley Moore, U.S. Senator from the State of West 
  Virginia.......................................................     3

                               WITNESSES

Frankiewicz, Tom, Subject Matter Expert, Waste Methane, Rocky 
  Mountain Institute.............................................     6
    Responses to additional questions from:
        Senator Carper...........................................    26
        Senator Boozman..........................................    32
Scarpelli, Tia, Ph.D., Research Scientist and Waste Sector Lead 
  Carbon 
  Mapper.........................................................    33
    Responses to additional questions from:
        Senator Carper...........................................    47
        Senator Boozman..........................................    51
Germain, Anne, P.E., BCEE, Chief Operating Officer and SVP of 
  Regulatory Affairs, National Waste and Recycling Association...    52
    Responses to additional questions from:
        Senator Carper...........................................    61
        Senator Boozman..........................................    62

                          ADDITIONAL MATERIAL

Letter from American Biogas Council which outlines concerns and 
  implications with the Inflation Reduction Act's Section 48 
  expansion to include biogas as an eligible technology and the 
  exclusion of cleaning and conditioning equipment...............    66
Letter from Circular Economy Coalition to provide feedback on 
  methane emissions from landfills and how to mitigate their harm 
  to the environment.............................................    91
Elsevier Research Paper: Landfill Gas Collection Efficiency: 
  Categorization of Data From Existing In-Situ Measurements......    93
GHGSat statement for the record..................................   102

 
   AVOIDING, DETECTING AND CAPTURING METHANE EMISSIONS FROM LANDFILLS

                              ----------                              


                      WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 31, 2024

                                       U.S. Senate,
                 Committee on Environment and Public Works,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:03 a.m. in 
room 406, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Thomas R. Carper 
(chairman of the committee) presiding.
    Present: Senators Carper, Capito, Cardin, Whitehouse, 
Merkley, Markey, Kelly, Padilla, Ricketts, Sullivan.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS R. CARPER, 
            U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF DELAWARE

    Senator Carper. Good morning, everyone. We are pleased to 
call this hearing to order.
    Today, as you know, we are going to be discussing a topic 
that is a priority for many of us on the Environment and Public 
Works Committee, and that is reducing methane emissions from 
landfills and how we can do that through deploying new and 
innovative technologies while improving waste management and 
increasing the use of existing solutions, like composting. We 
will also explore how addressing methane emissions can create 
new jobs, a lot of them, and provide new revenue streams for 
landfill operators.
    Over the past couple of centuries, methane concentrations 
in the atmosphere have more than doubled. Methane, as many of 
you know, is roughly 80 times more potent as a greenhouse gas 
than carbon dioxide. As a result, this super-pollutant is 
responsible for roughly a third of the global warming our 
planet is currently experiencing. I am going to say that again: 
this super-pollutant is responsible for roughly a third of the 
global warming that our planet is currently experiencing, a 
third.
    This makes cleaning up methane emissions one of the fastest 
ways to mitigate global warming. In fact, according to the 
Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, strong, rapid, and 
sustained methane reductions are critical to limiting near-term 
warming.
    Two years ago, I traveled with some of our colleagues to 
Scotland for the United Nations (UN) Climate Change Conference 
(COP26), and also with members of our staff. That is when the 
United States and the European Union launched the Global 
Methane Pledge. This agreement represents a collective effort 
to reduce global methane emissions by at least 30 percent over 
the next 10 years.
    Today, more than 150 countries have signed onto that 
pledge. One hundred fifty countries have signed onto that 
pledge. More recently, I attended COP28 in Dubai with a 
bipartisan delegation of our colleagues led by Senator Cardin. 
There, governments and private industries renewed their 
commitments to reduce methane emissions.
    As an original signatory of the Global Methane Pledge and 
significant contributor to global methane emissions, the United 
States must continue to do its part, our part, to drive 
domestic methane reductions. In short, we need to provide what 
I call, and what you probably call, leadership by example.
    So, why should we focus on reducing methane emissions? To 
answer that question, let me begin by sharing the age-old story 
of Willie Sutton, whom as many of you will recall and members 
of our committee have heard me say more than they want to 
remember, I suspect, but he was a notorious bank robber during 
the Great Depressions. In fact, he robbed a lot of banks.
    Finally, he was caught and taken to trial. They stood 
before the judge, and the judge famously asked him, ``Mr. 
Sutton, why do you rob banks?'' He replied, famously, 
``Because, Your Honor, that is where the money is.'' We can 
apply the same logic to today's hearing. We have to go where 
the emissions are and then find ways to reduce them.
    The good news is that we are well on our way to doing just 
that. Thanks to the Methane Emissions Reductions Program in the 
Inflation Reduction Act, the United States is advancing 
technologies to detect and capture methane emissions from the 
oil and gas sector, as well.
    Not only will these investments help us reduce emissions, 
but they will also help us create jobs while recovering wasted 
energy, enough to power nearly seven million homes every year. 
Let me say that again: that is enough to power seven million 
homes every year. That is a win-win for our communities, and it 
is a win-win for our planet.
    For this hearing, though, we are going to focus on the next 
frontier of mitigating methane emissions, and that is 
landfills. In other words, we are going to, my staff wrote this 
out for me, they like this, we are going to talk trash. That is 
pretty good, isn't it?
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Carper. You may ask yourself, why are we concerned 
about methane emissions from landfills? Landfills and their 
emissions are largely out of sight and largely out of mind for 
most people. However, landfill methane emissions are the third, 
that is right, the third largest source of methane emissions in 
the United States and globally.
    So, where is the methane coming from? In the United States, 
we send more food waste to landfills than any other materials. 
When organic material, like food, breaks down in landfills, as 
you know, it creates methane. If a landfill is not equipped to 
capture that methane, it simply escapes into our atmosphere.
    As many of our colleagues know, I care deeply about finding 
meaningful ways to reduce our waste while promoting 
sustainability. To that end, I am working alongside Senator 
Boozman and Senator Capito to pass legislation that would 
strengthen our Nation's recycling and composting systems.
    While composting and waste diversion are important tools to 
reduce methane emissions from landfills, it is also important 
that our landfills are equipped with technology that is 
necessary to mitigate emissions for years to come.
    For example, in my home State of Delaware, where one of our 
witnesses has spent a little bit of time, a lot of time, 
actually, the Delaware Solid Waste Authority mitigates methane 
emissions from their landfills with collection systems. Local 
businesses then use the gas that is collected to power their 
operations. Many landfills across the Country use similar 
systems to capture what would otherwise be wasted energy.
    As members of our committee have oftentimes heard me say, 
we need to find out what works and do more of that. In this 
case, we also need to find ways to improve upon what is already 
working. Deploying innovative methods and technologies to limit 
methane leakage will go a long way toward reducing landfill 
emissions across the United States.
    Last, in order to fully address this problem, we must be 
able to identify where the largest releases of methane from 
landfills are occurring. In fact, over the last couple of 
years, new studies have begun to reveal the scale of that 
problem.
    Satellite monitoring, flyovers, and other enhanced 
emissions monitoring technologies are playing a growing role in 
identifying methane emissions from landfills. These newer 
detection technologies can help landfill operators quickly 
respond to large emission events. We will need diverse 
strategies to detect landfill emissions going forward, because 
traditional methods have been unable to produce accurate 
emissions data for landfills.
    Let me close by reminding everybody that if we take action 
to reduce landfill emissions, it would have an immediate 
positive impact on climate, on air quality, and on public 
health while also creating economic opportunity across our 
Country, especially in our rural areas.
    My hope is that today's hearing will help us further our 
committee's understanding of how we can better detect and 
capture methane emissions from landfills and what strategies 
can keep methane-generating organic waste out of landfills in 
the first place.
    Before we do that, I want to recognize our Ranking Member, 
Senator Capito, for her opening statement. Senator Capito, good 
morning.

        OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, 
          U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA

    Senator Capito. Good morning, and thank you, Mr. Chairman, 
and thanks for holding the hearing. Welcome to our panel of 
witnesses, and thanks for your willingness to testify.
    As organic materials decompose in landfills, they produce 
landfill gas containing methane, as the Chairman talked about, 
the main compound found in natural gas. Due to the natural 
generation of methane in landfill gas, landfills are now the 
third largest source, I believe you said that, of methane 
emissions in the U.S. This may be an environmental problem, but 
it is also an economic one, as methane lost to the atmosphere 
could be used for energy or manufacturing.
    While there is more work to be done, and improvements can 
be made, I want to acknowledge that the U.S. has made a lot of 
progress in reducing emissions from landfills. Through 
innovation thanks to the realization of its monetary value, the 
landfill sector has significantly improved its capacity to 
collect and manage landfill gas.
    Since 1990, U.S. landfills have reduced their greenhouse 
gas emissions by 38 percent. Recycling rates are increasing, 
and composting programs are taking off nationwide, meaning less 
methane-producing materials are ending up in the landfills. 
Also, the number of landfills are decreasing due to increases 
in operational efficiencies and improved land use.
    In considering solutions to address landfill methane that 
benefit the environment and economic development, it is 
essential that any regulations are achievable and that 
incentives are targeted. This is not what we have seen in the 
approach of this Administration, particularly from the Air 
Office at the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), which has 
pursued punitive regulations that are impossible to achieve, 
such as Clean Power Plan 2.0 and the misnamed Good Neighbor 
regulations.
    The Administration has also ladled our billions of funding 
for favored industries and causes which has been mired in red 
tape and have not delivered the promised results. We do not 
want to repeat those mistakes here, and it is important that 
Congress scrutinize proposed regulations coming out of the Air 
Office that deal with landfill methane.
    Natural gas derived from landfill methane can be used to 
generate reliable electricity or be used as transportation of 
industrial fuels, all of which promotes energy independence 
while reducing emissions. I am concerned that the landfill 
sector is facing the same approach that the Biden and the Obama 
administrations have taken with regard to fossil fuels, where 
the goal is to make then uneconomic, and then the EPA then 
works backward to achieve that with crushing regulations.
    For example, proposed changes to the Clean Air Act's New 
Source Review Program would create a burdensome regulatory 
landscape for landfills seeking to implement technology 
innovations to address fugitive methane emissions. Despite 
receiving increased enforcement scrutiny for methane emissions, 
landfills have not been able to access the emissions reductions 
tax credits by the so-called Inflation Reduction Act, and have 
been shut out from the EPA's implementation of the Renewable 
Fuel Standard.
    Did I say the Renewable Fuel Standard? This is an ongoing 
joke with Mr. Nebraska over here.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Capito. I am concerned this is the beginning and 
not the end of political targeting of an industry that is 
necessary for our economy, public health, and environmental 
risk management. Indeed, the EPA will be considering several 
burdensome rulemakings on landfills this year. The agency is 
currently evaluating multiple rules related to New Source 
Review to penalize fugitive emissions and require project 
emissions accounting in major permitting decisions.
    The waste sector already experiences needless permitting 
delays for deploying renewable energy projects that the 
Administration supports. These rulemakings will only exacerbate 
the sector's frequent permitting obstacles, we see this across 
industries, and aggravate the Biden Administration's stated 
goal of reducing methane emissions.
    The Administration will also need to review its New Source 
Performance Standards (NSPS) and Emission Guidelines for 
Municipal Solid Waste landfills under Section 111 of the Clean 
Air Act this year. Environmental groups are already petitioning 
the EPA to set more stringent air emissions standards on 
smaller municipal landfills.
    There are bipartisan solutions in front of us today. There 
is broad bipartisan agreement about the difficulties of 
monitoring and measuring methane emissions from landfills. 
Development of new technologies is underway and is essential to 
better detect and quantify emissions.
    Municipal landfills and local communities could benefit 
from additional support from the EPA to research and evaluate 
cutting edge technologies, but none of this will work if 
outdated regulations like New Source Review stymie those 
upgrades at existing facilities to recover methane and get it 
to the market.
    I urge my colleagues to continue to work with me on 
permitting reform and updating out-of-date environmental 
regulations, areas within this committee's jurisdiction, so we 
can ensure that emissions-reducing technologies can actually 
get out to the market and make a difference.
    Thank you again to the three witnesses here today. I look 
forward to our discussion.
    Senator Carper. Senator Capito, thanks for your statement.
    I want to thank both minority and majority staff for your 
work in putting this hearing together. It does not just happen 
by magic. This is going to be, I think, an especially valuable 
hearing, a timely hearing, and we are grateful for our 
witnesses, but also for our staff in helping to make it happen.
    Now, we are going to turn to our three witnesses. I am 
going to take a moment just to briefly introduce you. We are 
grateful, again, to all of you for helping us better understand 
and deal with what is an important challenge, but really a 
great opportunity as well.
    We are going to be hearing, in this order, from these three 
witnesses, leading off with Mr. Tom Frankiewicz. Tom is a 
Subject Matter Expert, I understand, on waste sector methane at 
the Rocky Mountain Institute, a research organization known as 
RMI. In this role, Tom leads RMI's work on methane emissions 
mitigation and waste management and coordinates the 
organization's work with the global methane hub.
    Before joining RMI, Mr. Frankiewicz worked in the Climate 
Change Division in the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency for 
over 16 years. He earned his M.B.A. from George Washington 
University School of Business, with a concentration in 
environmental and strategic management. Welcome.
    Our second witness is Tia Scarpelli, a Research Scientist 
and the Waste Sector Lead for Carbon Mapper, a nonprofit 
organization that uses remote sensing to detect and quantify 
methane emissions data. Dr. Scarpelli's research interests 
include investigating the characteristics of methane emissions 
at global landfills and dump sites and the role that satellite 
observation can play in informing the mitigation of waste 
sector emissions. She earned her Ph.D. in atmospheric chemistry 
at Harvard University, and she brings a wealth of knowledge of 
satellite observation and atmospheric modeling.
    Third, last but not least, we have Anne Germain, Chief 
Operating Officer and Senior Vice President of Regulatory 
Affairs for the National Waste and Recycling Association. She 
has worked in the field of resource conservation and materials 
management for more than 30 years and has been with the 
National Waste and Recycling Association since 2013. Prior to 
joining the National Waste and Recycling Association, Ms. 
Germain worked for the Delaware Solid Waste Authority for 19 
years, where she served as chief engineer.
    Where did you live, did you live in Delaware?
    Ms. Germain. I actually lived in Caroline County, Maryland 
while I was there.
    Senator Carper. Okay. She is a board-certified 
environmental engineer with a master's in civil engineering 
from the University of Delaware.
    I would just say to my colleagues, about a week ago, I 
happened to be visiting one of the Delaware solid waste 
facilities for environmental educational training for students. 
It is in Dover, and we have thousands of students that come 
every year. They learn about recycling, and actually, they 
learn about what we are talking about here today. It was just 
pure joy to be there. If your old colleagues had known that we 
were going to be with you today, I am sure they would all send 
their best.
    We thank you all again for appearing before our committee 
today. We will now begin with our witnesses' testimony. Mr. 
Frankiewicz, you are our lead-off hitter. Please proceed with 
your statement when you are ready. Thank you, and again, 
welcome to everybody.
    Welcome, especially, to Senator Markey. Please, go ahead.

  STATEMENT OF TOM FRANKIEWICZ, SUBJECT MATTER EXPERT, WASTE 
               METHANE, ROCKY MOUNTAIN INSTITUTE

    Mr. Frankiewicz. Thank you, Chairman Carper, Ranking Member 
Capito, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity 
to appear before you today.
    Senator Carper. Can you hold for just a second? We all 
serve on different committees. One of my committees, the 
Homeland Security Committee, is meeting right now. They are 
voting. They need me to come and join them, so I leave you all 
in good hands, right here. Thanks.
    Senator Capito.
    [Presiding.] I got it.
    Senator Carper. I will be back.
    Mr. Frankiewicz. Thank you. I have three key messages for 
you today: one, landfill methane pollution is a major threat to 
our climate and communities; we have viable solutions to cut 
emissions today; and three, implementing these solutions will 
bring local benefits.
    Landfills are a major source of methane. Methane has about 
80 times the planet heating power of carbon dioxide over a 20 
year time period. Thanks to its relatively short atmospheric 
life, cutting methane today offers an immediate opportunity to 
slow global warming and is essential to void the worst effects 
of climate change.
    Each year, we send over 140 million tons of municipal solid 
waste to roughly 1,200 open landfills across the Country. The 
majority of the waste is organic, think banana peels and yard 
clippings, generating methane as it decomposes in the 
landfills. Some landfills capture their gas, but lots of 
methane still escapes into the atmosphere.
    In 2021, the methane released from U.S. landfills had the 
same near-term warming impacts as driving 66 million cars for a 
year. The true total is likely higher, as recent aerial surveys 
suggest. We have viable solutions to address landfill methane: 
strengthen landfill emission controls and reduce organic waste 
disposal. It is time we modernized air emissions regulations 
for landfills, expanding gas collection, more comprehensive 
monitoring, and other common sense improvements can limit the 
release of methane to the atmosphere and protect communities 
from other harmful co-pollutants.
    At the same time, we must invest in infrastructure to keep 
organics out of landfills. Waste prevention programs, food 
rescue, and composting all help to avoid future landfill 
methane generation and bring other local benefits.
    On both fronts, we have seen State and local leadership. 
Strong landfill emissions standards in three States, organic 
recycling policies in nine, and curbside composting in hundreds 
of communities across the Country, and new commitments from the 
private sector, as well. Federal action is needed to ensure 
that methane reductions are achieved at scale. The EPA is 
statutorily required to revisit its Clean Air Act regulations 
for landfills this year. The agency should meet the challenge 
with Section 111 standards that reflect the latest best 
practices in methane monitoring and control while encouraging 
organics diversion.
    Congress can also provide funds to catalyze landfill 
methane reductions. Building on the success of the Bipartisan 
Infrastructure Law and the Inflation Reduction Act, additional 
grant programs could prioritize local waste prevention 
programs, organic recycling infrastructure, and landfill 
methane capture. The methane abatement potential here is 
significant.
    New EPA landfill standards can reduce emissions by amount 
one million metric tons of methane per year, or 80 million 
metric tons carbon dioxide equivalent. This is based on a 
preliminary analysis by the Environmental Integrity Project 
using EPA data. These efforts will help the U.S. meet its 
domestic climate goals while demonstrating global leadership.
    A more sustainable waste management system would bring 
local benefits. Landfills release toxic, smog-forming gases and 
odors that harm the health and well-being of nearby 
communities. More effective landfill methane controls would 
also address these co-pollutants, improving local air quality 
and life. Keeping organic waste out of landfills can bring 
further benefits, addressing food and security, creating job 
opportunities, and producing compost to improve soil health. 
For both stronger landfill emission controls and organics 
diversion programs, the cumulative benefits exceed the 
implementation costs.
    In closing, I would like to leave you these three points: 
landfills are a major source of methane pollution, but we have 
solutions to reduce these emissions today. By acting now, 
through stronger standards, we can limit near-term warming and 
bring real benefits to communities.
    Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Frankiewicz follows:]
   [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Capito. Thank you.
    Ms. Scarpelli.

STATEMENT OF TIA SCARPELLI, PH.D., RESEARCH SCIENTIST AND WASTE 
                   SECTOR LEAD, CARBON MAPPER

    Ms. Scarpelli. Good morning, Chairman Carper, Ranking 
Member Capito, and members of the committee. Thank you for the 
opportunity to speak before you today.
    My name is Dr. Tia Scarpelli, and I am a Research Scientist 
and the Waste Sector Lead at Carbon Mapper. Carbon Mapper is a 
nonprofit organization with a mission to deliver actionable and 
transparent methane and CO2 emissions data that can 
be used to inform and accelerate emissions mitigation.
    Our work to use remote sensing to detect and quantify 
localized methane emissions is grounded in over a decade of 
methane research conducted by National Aeronautics and Space 
Administration (NASA) Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), as well 
as published in science-based literature.
    I have three messages that I would like to express today. 
No. 1, that landfills are a major source of methane emissions; 
No. 2, monitoring technologies show persistent large emissions 
at landfills related to specific processes and facility 
infrastructure; and No. 3, advanced monitoring is a critical 
tool in our current toolbox to guide mitigation and verify 
emissions reductions.
    Landfills are an important contributor to U.S. methane 
emissions. Through aerial surveys conducted since 2016, we have 
surveyed 300 of over 1,200 open landfills. It identified large 
methane emissions sources at over 200 sites. Over a third of 
these landfills have been observed emitting more than 1,000 
kilograms of methane per hour, with high methane concentrations 
sometimes extending kilometers in length away from the 
landfill. Per year, the emissions from this handful of 
landfills account for one-quarter of the U.S.'s waste sector 
methane emissions in 2021.
    Many of these large methane emissions come from two main 
sources. One is the landfill's surface, and the other is 
landfill gas infrastructure. Both can be mitigated using 
available technologies. These large methane sources often 
persist for days, months, and even years.
    For both of these categories, advanced monitoring 
technologies are readily available to help operators more 
efficiently monitor methane while also supporting more cost 
effective emissions management. There is an opportunity for 
data-driven methane mitigation at landfills.
    Remote sensing is an advanced monitoring technique that 
generates high resolution images of methane gas. In many cases, 
we are able to precisely determine where the source is located 
on the landfill. We have identified some of the highest 
emitting sources at U.S. landfills, enabling prioritization for 
mitigation.
    Studies have also shown discrepancies between observed and 
reported emissions. This indicates that many of these large, 
persistent landfill emissions are not included or are 
misrepresented in traditional emissions accounting methods. 
Given the dynamic nature of landfills, a routine and 
comprehensive monitoring system is critical for assessing 
emissions and verifying mitigation. At the Sunshine Canyon 
Landfill in California, for example, airborne monitoring showed 
large emissions from surface cover.
    In collaboration with the operator and local agencies, our 
observations informed improvements to cover material and the 
gas capture system, and followup monitoring verified that 
emissions were reduced. There is no single monitoring 
technology that can see all of the methane at the granularity 
that is needed at landfills. We need a portfolio of solutions 
that includes ground-based, aerial, and satellite technologies.
    Currently, walking surveys are done quarterly at landfills 
using handheld methane detectors. These traditional surveys 
only cover a portion of the landfill and do not cover dangerous 
areas, like the landfill workface. This is the area where new 
waste is added, which means that large emissions sources may be 
missed during the survey.
    Emerging technologies are already being deployed at 
landfills, including the use of drones for leak detection and 
the use of airborne and satellite remote sensing to identify 
high emitters. With more wide-scale adoption across U.S. 
landfills, these technologies can enable significant methane 
reductions.
    Increased monitoring in itself is not enough. There is an 
additional need for voluntary action by operators or 
regulations to address methane leaks once they are identified.
    In closing, I offer these key takeaways: No. 1, remote 
sensing technologies are making methane emissions visible and 
can help the waste sector identify large emissions sources, 
improve emissions estimate and support cost effective emissions 
management to minimize methane loss in the first place. No. 2, 
landfills are complex systems. They need comprehensive 
monitoring the leverages all the tools in our 21st century 
toolbox while giving operators flexibility to choose cost-
effective methods that maximize mitigation potential or return 
on investment.
    I want to thank the committee for their work and the 
opportunity to share this research with you today. I look 
forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Scarpelli follows:]

                    Testimony of Dr. Tia Scarpelli,
            Research Scientist and Waste Lead, Carbon Mapper
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Senator Capito. Thank you, and I apologize; I left the 
Doctor part out of your first name of your address, so I 
apologize for that.
    Ms. Scarpelli. No problem.
    Senator Capito. Ms. Germain.

STATEMENT OF ANNE GERMAIN, P.E., BCEE, CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER 
AND SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT OF REGULATORY AFFAIRS, NATIONAL WASTE 
                   AND RECYCLING ASSOCIATION

    Ms. Germain. Thank you. Chairman Carper, Ranking Member 
Capito, members of the committee, thank you for allowing me to 
testify today on opportunities to avoid, detect, and reduce 
landfill methane emissions.
    My name is Anne Germain, and I serve as the Chief Operating 
Officer and Senior Vice President of Regulatory Affairs at the 
National Waste and Recycling Association. We are a trade 
association representing the private sector waste and recycling 
industry.
    Landfills protect the environment by responsibly managing 
society's waste. Our sector is subject to extensive Federal, 
State, and local requirements, including stringent design, 
operating, monitoring, closure, and post-closure standards 
established under the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act 
(RCRA) as well as landfill gas collection and control 
requirements under the Clean Air Act.
    Besides these regulatory obligations, we have made 
significant advancements in landfill gas capture and control 
systems that meet or exceed our regulatory requirements. We 
also closely monitor emissions from our landfills and engage in 
corrective actions swiftly and efficiently. We are actively 
deploying infrastructure that transforms yesterday's waste into 
renewable energy, which can power communities, fuel vehicles, 
and support progress in offsetting the impacts of climate 
change.
    Recently, a narrative has emerged that air emissions from 
landfills have increased. Based on data from the EPA, however, 
municipal solid waste landfills air emissions have declined by 
nearly 45 percent between 1990 and 2021. All the while, 
landfill waste volumes have increased by about five percent 
over that same period. We are proud of this progress, and we 
are not aware of any other industry that has achieved even 
remotely comparable improvements.
    However, we are committed to reducing climate impacts even 
further, consistent with the goals of the Global Methane Pledge 
and the Administration's commitment to reduce methane emissions 
from the waste sector by at least 15 percent by 2030. Achieving 
these goals necessitates the development of more accurate 
measurement and measurement methods to quantify emissions.
    Our members are actively assessing how various aerial and 
ground-based methane emission measurement methods developed for 
other sectors can be applied to landfills. Translating direct 
measurements to quantification of landfill methane is 
challenging because landfill emissions fluctuate frequently, 
sometimes even daily. It is influenced by the age and quantity 
of waste that is in place, the waste composition, the cover 
type, and location, landfill gas operations, waste placement 
activities, and even the weather. These dynamic conditions 
impact modelling assumptions and drive emissions estimates.
    Aerial emissions monitoring is gaining attention and 
encompasses a variety of technologies, including satellite 
imagery, aerial flights, and drones. Aerial emissions 
monitoring, however, has a limitation, as it is not continuous 
and only captures moments in time when emissions may be 
temporarily higher or lower than normal.
    One area where aerial monitoring and on-ground sampling can 
be used for immediate benefit is in identifying the location 
and concentration of any emissions. This enables site operators 
to take immediate action to investigate and correct suspected 
leaks. Further work will be necessary before these 
technologies, however, can be used to calculate landfill 
methane emissions accurately. We would all benefit from 
additional funding to support the acceleration and progress 
around emissions monitoring, calculations, and reporting.
    The oil and gas industry and agriculture industries have 
benefited from substantially greater levels of funding for 
their methane emissions reductions research and development in 
comparison to the solid waste sector, and we recommend that 
Congress recognize this disparity as EPA moves forward with 
rulemaking on landfills.
    We also wish to highlight certain policies that, if 
addressed, could incentivize landfills to capture greater 
amounts of landfill methane beyond mandated requirements. Of 
immediate consequence is the Department of the Treasury's 
proposed rule on the expanded investment tax credit for 
qualified biogas property under the Inflation Reduction Act.
    Our sector worked hard to advocate for this tax credit and 
has relied on its availability in planning multibillion-dollar 
investments in biogas processing infrastructure. We were 
surprised by Treasury's recent proposal to virtually eliminate 
landfill biogas processing facilities from credit eligibility, 
which would, in turn, disincentivize methane abatement 
solutions within our sector.
    We therefore ask your support in requesting that Treasury 
reverse course and return to Congress' initial goal of driving 
economy-wide investments consistent with the Administration's 
climate objectives.
    The landfill sector is also facing other threats to its 
plan to invest in technology and detect and capture landfill 
emissions. For example, although landfills are incentivized to 
capture methane emissions through EPA's Renewable Fuel Standard 
Program, the agency has received a petition to revisit the 
annual standards that it recently finalized. Granting the 
petition would disrupt the long-term stability needed for 
continued investment in landfill gas collection and renewable 
energy programs.
    Overcoming challenges such as this are among the most 
significant regulatory opportunities available to EPA to 
incentivize landfill operators to make capital investments in 
beneficial use infrastructure and capture greater levels of 
methane emissions, thereby supporting broader climate solutions 
and public policy objectives.
    We acknowledge that action to address climate crisis is 
necessary, and we look forward to working with Congress, the 
Administration, and other stakeholders in evaluating meaningful 
policy solutions to capture greater amounts of methane that 
result from our industry's provision of necessary and vital 
public services.
    I appreciate the opportunity to appear before this 
committee, and I look forward to any questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Germain follows:]
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    Senator Capito. Thank you. Thanks to all three of you. In 
the absence of our Chairman, I will take my license and begin 
to ask the questions.
    Ms. Germain, I addressed in my opening statement some of 
the concerns from small municipal landfills. Just give me a lay 
of the land here, what is the percentage, if you looked at the 
whole numbers of landfills, what numbers of those are 
municipal, percentagewise, approximately?
    Ms. Germain. It is about 50/50.
    Senator Capito. 50/50.
    Ms. Germain. Tom said that there are about 1,200 landfills 
in the Country. About half of them are publicly owned, and 
about half of them are privately owned. If you look at the 
volume of material going into the landfills, however, it 
switches; about two-thirds of the waste goes to privately owned 
landfills, and about a third goes to publicly owned landfills. 
That shows you, basically, that the publicly owned landfills 
are significantly smaller than privately owned.
    Senator Capito. Okay, so let us get into what kind of, and 
we have heard a lot about some of the development of 
technologies of capturing, not just capturing, but also 
measuring and monitoring. What kind of challenges would that 
bring to a small municipal landfill? Are they already doing it 
if they are complying with the EPA regulations, which I am sure 
they would want to do?
    Ms. Germain. Right. The New Source Performance Standards 
(NSPS) does have size limitations, so landfills below a certain 
size threshold are not subject to the new source performance 
standards, so many of the smaller landfills may not be subject 
to those rules at all. Changing the rules to focus on extending 
it to smaller landfills would, of course, subject them to 
control and capture requirements that they might not currently 
be doing.
    Senator Capito. Okay.
    Tom, let me ask you a question, back to my first question. 
Percentagewise, kind of the lay of the land, then if you looked 
at total emissions going out from what you said, 1,200 
landfills, are more of them going out from the private, are the 
emissions equivalent, do you see what I am trying to ask? Are 
the emissions more at the small and municipals, or because 
maybe they have not made the provisions? Can you clarify that a 
little bit?
    Mr. Frankiewicz. Yes. On that exact percentage, I would 
have to get back to you.
    Senator Capito. It does not have to be exact.
    Mr. Frankiewicz. No, I can not speak to which percent has 
higher emissions. I can, just following up on, in terms of the 
types of technology for controls, things like gas collection, 
improved cover, best practices for operations and maintenance, 
the types of things that are required between gas collection 
and monitoring for the NSPS are generally tried and true 
technologies. Those technologies for controlling emissions at a 
site are not new technology and are deployed both at municipal 
and private landfills.
    Senator Capito. Right. I mean, they are obviously all at a 
cost, and I think that is in a lot of different ways.
    Is there an economic, Anne, I will go back to you, is there 
an economic incentive in capturing and selling methane, and 
what are some of the regulatory obstacles to that?
    Ms. Germain. It is very much dependent on the type of 
facility. Right now, the Section 48 tax credits that I referred 
to in the Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS) do provide some 
incentives for capturing outside of the regulation, and then 
basically utilizing.
    Depending on the landfill's location, they might be able to 
utilize the gas in some way, but many of them do not have any 
access to be able to create some energy from the gas, so they 
would have to make it pipeline quality. Currently, the way the 
Section 48 tax credit regulations are written by Treasury, they 
would disqualify gas upgrading equipment necessary to make it 
pipeline quality.
    Senator Capito. Yes. Okay, Senator Ricketts?
    Senator Ricketts. Thank you, Madam Chair. First of all, I 
would like to ask for unanimous consent to enter a letter from 
the American Biogas Council, which outlines their concerns and 
implications with the Inflation Reduction Act's Section 48, 
just referenced here, expansion to include biogas as an 
eligible technology and the exclusion of cleaning and 
conditioning equipment.
    Senator Capito. Without objection, so ordered.
    [The referenced information follows:]
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Ricketts. Nebraska has tremendous examples of 
utilizing methane from landfills to generate renewable energy. 
For over 20 years, the Elk City Station in Douglas County has 
utilized methane from the local landfill. That is about a six 
megawatt project.
    In 2014, the city of Lincoln and Lincoln Electric System 
had partnered on a landfill gas to energy project to harness 
the methane gas produced in the city of Lincoln's Bluff Road 
Landfill, and that is about a 4.8 megawatt project. The city of 
Lincoln utilizes about 80 megawatts annually, and so this is a 
great way to diversify their energy generation.
    But landfills are not the only opportunity. Our livestock 
producers are increasingly working toward capturing methane 
from their facilities to use for energy generation. The Federal 
Government needs to continue to support voluntary emissions 
reductions technologies to make sense for communities and 
producers and not penalize our critical utilities.
    Now, we talked about, you mentioned Section 48, Ms. 
Germain. Section 48 of the IRS code now provides for an 
investment tax credit to turn raw biogas captured from 
landfills and, of high importance to my State, created from 
animal and crop waste at farms and feedlots and food processing 
facilities into useful fuel. In fact, Nebraska has three times 
as many cattle as it does people, so this is kind of a big deal 
for us. We are the Beef State.
    This new provision targets biogas that is sold or otherwise 
use productively and excludes disposing of the raw biogas by 
burning it. The new language also adds that cleaning and 
conditioning equipment is covered by the new investment tax 
credit.
    This addition is vital, since raw biogas created from a 
farm or a feedlot, anaerobic digester, or collected from a 
landfill without cleaning and conditioning, as already pointed 
out, cannot be used in commercial fuel, put in a pipeline, or 
stored. It essentially must be burned onsite, and, of course, 
that is the very outcome the new provision is trying to avoid.
    Foolishly, the Department of the Treasury last month issued 
proposed rules for biogas investment tax credits that 
inexplicably exclude the cleaning and conditioning equipment 
necessary to upgrade raw biogas so that it can be stored, 
transported, and used as renewable fuel. Treasury is proposing 
to deny this tax credit to biogas cleaning and conditioning 
equipment needed to take the raw biogas and turn it into 
pipeline quality bio methane.
    This equipment is typically the most expensive part of 
turning raw landfill gas or raw biogas created from farm 
digesters into useful, renewable product envisioned by the 
amendments to Section 48. Without this support, many projects 
to transform waste biogas into valuable renewable fuel would be 
uneconomical, especially at those small and rural landfills.
    I would also point out the Administration is constantly 
doing things that are counter to the goal of reducing the 
impact to the environment. For example, since you mentioned the 
Renewable Fuels Standard, they have set Renewable Volume 
Obligations (RVO), for example, for biodiesel and renewable 
diesel below the industry's ability to actually produce that, 
what we are currently producing right now, thus creating havoc 
in that marketplace.
    Also, flex fuel vehicles, which burn higher percentages of 
ethanol, reduce the impact on the environment. They do not get 
the same tax credits as EVs and so forth, so we are constantly 
seeing that.
    Anyway, Ms. Germain, do you agree that without incentives 
for biogas cleanup equipment, many landfills will have an 
economic challenge in investing into the necessary and 
expensive equipment needed to process raw landfill gas into a 
commercial renewable gas?
    Ms. Germain. Yes. We definitely agree with that. That is 
one of the reasons why we submitted a letter to Treasury about 
changing the definition of qualified biogas property.
    Senator Ricketts. Great. In other words, the 
Administration's strained interpretation of the new biogas 
provisions will, in fact, strand this valuable fuel because it 
cannot be moved offsite and to homes, business, and industry 
that would welcome and pay a premium for renewable, natural gas 
or advanced electrical technologies.
    Ms. Germain, do you agree that, to ensure these waste 
streams can contribute to the Nation's energy needs, anaerobic 
digesters must be coupled with biogas upgrading equipment to 
turn raw biogas into a useful commercial fuel?
    Ms. Germain. The viability of anaerobic digesters are 
dependent on being able to utilize credits. That will 
incentivize those facilities to be able to be developed. We 
need the infrastructure if we are going to be looking at 
increased biogas production from anaerobic digesters.
    Senator Ricketts. Since the Administration is denying the 
investment tax credit to the key equipment to allow digester 
systems to create a useful and lucrative energy product, do you 
agree that the Administration's position will result in fewer 
digesters being built and, therefore, more organic material 
ending up in landfills?
    Ms. Germain. Yes.
    Senator Ricketts. Great. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
    Senator Capito. Thank you.
    Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Carper.
    [Presiding.] Thanks. Thank you for chairing. How is it 
going? We all serve on different committees. Sometimes we are 
needed to be in two or three places at once. Thanks for bearing 
with me, and thank you, Senator Capito.
    I am going to ask a question of Dr. Scarpelli. This deals 
with uncovering landfill emissions. One of the reasons we know 
the scale of methane emissions from landfills is thanks to the 
extensive work that is done by researchers using NASA 
technology to detect and to quantify these emissions.
    For example, Dr. Scarpelli, your organization conducted, I 
am told, aerial surveys looking for methane sources in 
California and found that certain landfills were the largest 
observed emissions sources. Please describe for us how Carbon 
Mapper adapted this new technology for the purposes of 
detecting emissions, and talk with us, share with us some of 
the results of your studies that your organization and others 
have produced.
    Ms. Scarpelli. Thank you for the question, Senator. Thank 
you for the comments about the history of the technology. 
Carbon Mapper, the technology we use, was originally developed 
at NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory. We still interact with NASA 
Jet Propulsion Laboratory in a couple of different ways. As you 
mentioned, the aerial technology that we use includes the 
Airborne Visible Infrared Imaging Spectrometer--Next Generation 
(AVIRIS NG), which is an aircraft that was designed----
    Senator Carper. Say that again, the what?
    Ms. Scarpelli. It is AVIRIS NG. It is the name of the 
aircraft. It is a NASA JPL aircraft. That is what we fly.
    Senator Carper. JPL?
    Ms. Scarpelli. Jet Propulsion Laboratory. That is one of 
the aircraft that we fly. It has what we call an imaging 
spectrometer, that is the instrument on board, and that is also 
on the NASA Earth Surface Mineral Dust Source Investigation 
(EMIT) instrument on the International Space Station, it is 
also an imaging spectrometer. That is the technology that we 
use.
    When we go and fly on an aerial campaign, we work with the 
stakeholders as well, so that is where we are trying to extend, 
not just to develop the technology for research purposes, but 
also engage with the people that can use the data on the 
ground.
    Then, we are also part of a broader coalition of partners 
that includes NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory and our commercial 
partner, Planet Labs and other partners. This is part of a 
broader coalition to launch satellites.
    These satellites are actually developed, originally a new 
generation of these imaging spectrometers. The idea there is 
that eventually, we would have a satellite constellation that 
could do biweekly to daily revisits of sites globally across 
the world. Then, Carbon Mapper's goal is to get that data into 
the hands of people on the ground who can use it. We have had 
positive experiences, including in the State of California, 
where we have worked with stakeholders to get the information 
to the operators so they can take voluntary action to mitigate 
emissions.
    Senator Carper. I want you to go back on what you just 
said, and compress it into one paragraph, and just dumb it 
down. Just make it as clear as you can, please. Go ahead. 
Sometimes, I say, how would you explain this to your 
grandmother, or your grandfather? Go ahead.
    Ms. Scarpelli. Okay. The phrase we like to use is that you 
can not manage what you do not measure, for methane.
    Senator Carper. Yes, I have used that a few times, yes. 
That is a good one.
    Ms. Scarpelli. Yes. It is very accurate, I think, and it 
applies to landfills, as our goal is mitigation. At landfills, 
you can use it for beneficial use, as well. Anything that we 
can provide with these technologies to increase gas capture and 
to reduce leaks is what our goal is.
    Really, the key there is these technologies can provide 
technical assistance to operators. We just want to provide and 
get that into jurisdictions that maybe can not afford an aerial 
campaign on their own, so satellites, because they have this 
routine monitoring, provide that opportunity.
    Senator Carper. Let me followup with that. How do you 
validate the results of the satellite and the aerial surveys? 
In other words, how do we know whether the results accurately 
quantify the observed methane emissions?
    Ms. Scarpelli. We have participated with the technology in 
various what we call controlled release experiments. These are 
validation studies where you release a known amount of methane, 
and then different technologies can observe that release. Then 
you try to, you estimate it using your own processing steps. 
Then, you compare it to the known amount of methane that is 
being released and see if you can produce back that----
    Senator Carper. When you say ``you,'' who is ``you''?
    Ms. Scarpelli. Carbon Mapper would participate with an 
aircraft instrument, or you can also have different 
technologies all participate at the same time. Some of these 
are in the private sector. Some of these are academic 
institutions. The idea there is that we do not know the known 
release, and so we have seen that, in these experiments, we are 
able to reproduce the known release rates of methane.
    Senator Carper. Thank you.
    Senator Markey, welcome. Good to see you.
    Senator Markey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    In Massachusetts, we have a rule that any business or 
organization that generates more than half a ton of food waste 
a week can not put all that food in the garbage. The ban has 
not only reduced greenhouse gas emissions, but also saved space 
by keeping millions of pounds of food out of landfills. 
Thousands of Massachusetts businesses have begun donating 
unused food to shelters and to food banks across the State. Our 
State's food waste rule accomplished this win-win scenario 
while also creating over 500 jobs and generating $175 million 
in economic benefits during its first two years.
    Mr. Frankiewicz, can you elaborate on the community and 
economic benefits that organic waste prevention and organics 
recycling programs have had across the Country?
    Mr. Frankiewicz. Thank you, Senator Markey. Excellent 
question. We really look at organics diversion and landfill gas 
control as being a two-pronged approach. I know sometimes it 
might seem odd to talk about these two different things at one 
time, but you are basically working upstream and downstream to 
reduce landfill gas emissions.
    When it comes to organics diversion and food loss, food 
waste prevention, there are really, I think, several 
significant benefits. Of course, you have the climate benefit, 
which is global. Generally speaking, for every 6,000 tons of 
methane, there is 6,000 tons of methane that is avoided for 
every one million tons of food waste that is diverted.
    Senator Markey. Is Massachusetts' program a model?
    Mr. Frankiewicz. It is definitely a great example of a 
State----
    Senator Carper. That is a leading question. Strike that one 
from the record.
    Senator Markey. Your Honor, I am going to bring that up on 
appeal.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Frankiewicz. It is a great example of a State taking 
proactive action that both has global benefits with methane 
reductions, but most of those benefits are actually experienced 
locally. On average, Americans spend $1,300 a year for 
groceries that is just wasted. By avoiding that food loss, food 
waste, Americans are saving money on their monthly grocery 
bills.
    Senator Markey. Yes, absolutely. That is great. By the way, 
Delaware is the First State, but not in everything, Okay? 
Massachusetts can be first in something, maybe.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Markey. Mr. Frankiewicz, what role can the EPA play 
in scaling up similar organic waste prevention and recycling 
programs nationwide? What is the recommendation to the EPA that 
you have?
    Mr. Frankiewicz. As you know, or as you may know, EPA has 
done a lot of great work researching both the methane impacts 
from food loss, food waste, but also the community benefits. 
They currently have a strategy out right now that is out for 
comment, but EPA has shown great guidance in terms of 
researching best practices for this. This is something that is 
often implemented at the local level, at the community level, 
at the State level, there is a lot that can be done in terms of 
grant support and also technical capacity.
    There are grants out right now, the Society for Worldwide 
Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFR) grants that are 
supporting communities and implementing programs, but there is 
still a lot that can be done in terms of developing best 
practices and capacity building and technical assistance, 
because money is part of it.
    Senator Markey. We will work with the EPA on that.
    Mr. Frankiewicz. Yes.
    Senator Markey. That sounds like a great recommendation.
    Landfill operators in Massachusetts, like New Bedford's 
Landfill Gas-to-Energy Project, are showing that gas collection 
and monitoring systems are a cost effective way to reduce 
greenhouse gas emissions. LoCI Controls, a startup founded by 
two MIT alumni in Cambridge, has developed low cost lunchbox 
sized sensors that have reduced landfill emissions by four 
million tons of carbon dioxide equivalent in just a few years. 
These Massachusetts projects and technologies prove it is 
feasible to do better than the status quo.
    Mr. Frankiewicz, again, what are some of the simple 
strategies that all landfill operators could use to reduce 
their methane emissions today?
    Mr. Frankiewicz. Senator Markey, I am glad you brought this 
up.
    When you talk about the costs of different technologies, 
not only are many of these technologies tried and true, having 
gas collection operation practices for soil cover, improving 
working face, having a smaller, tighter working face, but when 
it comes to gas collection and the relationship to energy 
projects, that is what you call a win-win solution.
    Because generally, using this improved technology for 
automated well-tuning, where currently it is typically done 
manually, you generally see recovery improvements of 10 to 20 
percent. That increased recovery of methane is increased 
revenue for an energy project and often pays for the cost of 
that collection system in about a year.
    Senator Markey. It would also reduce odors, as well.
    Mr. Frankiewicz. Yes, that is something I think that, we 
talk about odors, we talk about methane, we talk about toxics. 
Landfill gas is a stew of different carbon dioxide and water, 
hydrogen sulfide, a smog-forming compounds. When you reduce 
methane, you are reducing all of those other things, as well.
    Senator Markey. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Frankiewicz, and 
thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Carper. Thanks for those questions.
    Senator Cardin, welcome. Good to see you.
    Senator Cardin. Thank you.
    Before Senator Markey leaves, let me just quote from 
Maryland Code Environmental Article 9, Section 1724.1, our 
Maryland law: any person or business or cafeteria that produces 
more than two tons of food residual in a given week must ensure 
organic waste is separate and diverted from landfills.
    I just want you to know, Maryland is very much in the 
forefront here. Senator Carper joined me in a visit to the 
organic recycling facilities that we have in the State of 
Maryland that operate efficiently in reducing energy and 
producing safe fertilizer materials from organic waste.
    So I just wanted to underscore the point that Senator 
Markey has made. Landfills produce a lot of methane emissions, 
and we can do a better job of keeping things out of landfills, 
so thank you for your leadership on that issue in 
Massachusetts. We want you to know that Maryland and 
Massachusetts have more in common than just the first letter of 
our names.
    Let me also just point out the fact, which is pretty 
obvious, and that is, in my State of Maryland, landfills 
represent 40 percent of our methane emissions. That is a large 
amount.
    The other issue here, Mr. Chairman, that I think is very 
important, and I want to compliment our Chairman and Ranking 
Member, we have done a lot on methane emissions reductions. 
Thank you for what you have done, and the leadership on this 
committee was very instrumental in the Bipartisan 
Infrastructure Package and the other bills that we have been 
able to pass, including the Inflation Reduction Act, that have 
dealt with methane reductions. I think we have a proud record 
in this committee.
    But this is also a matter of environmental justice. I know 
where landfills are located. These are traditionally 
underserved communities. They pay a heavier price because of 
the location of the landfill. Anything we can do to mitigate 
the damages caused by landfills or reduce the amount of 
material that needs to go into landfills helps communities that 
have traditionally been underserved.
    In my State, we have taken major steps. We have a strong 
regulatory system in regard to landfills. We do covering 
issues. We do a lot to mitigate the impact of landfills.
    I guess my question is, to the panel, we see States are 
doing good things. Is there a way that we can have stronger 
Federal policies that partner with the States, giving them the 
incentives they need in order to take more aggressive action to 
prevent the negative impacts of landfills as it relates not 
only to methane emissions, but to the other concerns that are 
raised? Why do not we just go right down the line?
    Mr. Frankiewicz. Sure. Senator Cardin, I want to commend 
Maryland on their efforts to lead, both on one thing, with 
Maryland and Washington State both, they have taken this dual-
pronged approach of increasing stringency of landfill gas 
regulations while encouraging organics diversion, and that is 
really the best way to do these things.
    You mentioned landfills as an environmental justice issue. 
I think that is an important point. More than half of landfills 
are located within a mile of disadvantaged communities. I think 
that is also a reason, while some States have shown leadership 
in moving forward on these programs, not all have, and that is 
where you really need strong Federal standards, both for 
increased landfill gas control. As I mentioned, when you reduce 
landfill gas emissions, you are also reducing toxins, smog-
forming pollution, and odor.
    Also, there is more that the Federal Government could do to 
support organics diversion and treatment. That is really where 
you see some of the greatest community benefits, as well, both 
in terms of avoided food loss and waste that impacts people's 
budgets, but also composting and composting facilities, 
generally speaking, create six jobs for every two and one job 
that is created for landfilling and incineration, respectively.
    Senator Cardin. Dr. Scarpelli.
    Ms. Scarpelli. Thank you for the question, Senator. We have 
heard here today that reducing methane emissions can help with 
community benefits, both in terms of odor and community health, 
because there is often the pollutants co-emitted with the 
methane. Speaking from a monitoring perspective, we have seen 
that these monitoring technologies can help find leaks and 
mitigate them quicker.
    In terms of Federal programs, I think the key here is we 
need to scale up the use of these technologies. Having public 
funded grants that are competitive for the technologies to be 
scaled up, and providing jurisdictions with access to those 
technologies and that technical assistance in jurisdictions 
where they would not necessarily be able to get that on their 
own. I think that, from a monitoring perspective, would really 
be key.
    Senator Cardin. I have a very generous Chairman. I am sure 
he would give me an extra few minutes, Ms. Germain, if you 
would like to make a response.
    Senator Carper. The Senator's time has expired. Not really. 
Go ahead.
    [Laughter.]
    Ms. Germain. Sure. One of the things to recognize when we 
are looking at some of these food waste diversions is to 
understand that we currently, the infrastructure that is in 
place for composting and anaerobic digestion facilities, there 
is just not enough of them to be able to take all the 
potentially diverted materials. We need to focus on what we can 
do to improve that infrastructure, and also to focus on the 
quality of the materials.
    One of the things some of our members own and operate are 
anaerobic digestion and composting facilities, and just like 
you are probably already aware with recycling, we are dealing 
with a lot of contamination in our composting and our anaerobic 
digestion facilities. We want to make a viable product that can 
be utilized as a soil amendment. In order to do that, we need 
to ensure that we have high quality material that is not 
contaminated with material that does not belong in there.
    We know that a lot of manufacturers are trying to take food 
contact packaging and claim that it compostable, but yet, a lot 
of this so-called compostable packaging really does not compost 
in our systems. It requires extra steps and a lot of effort to 
try and remove it and make a clean-looking product.
    We are recommending to EPA as part of our comments to their 
organic strategy that they really require not just lab 
standards, but field testing of any packaging that claims 
compostability, and that there should be some standardization 
on labeling before people can claim that their products and 
packaging can be composted.
    Senator Cardin. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. 
Chairman.
    Senator Carper. Thank you, Senator Cardin. Thanks for your 
faithful attendance here and for helping to lead a good fight.
    I see a couple of other Senators, I think, are on their way 
trying to get here from other assignments. One of them is 
Senator Merkley. Before he gets here, I am going to ask another 
question or two, and when he shows up, we will recognize him.
    With that, Mr. Frankiewicz, I know you have talked about 
the interplay between efforts at the State and the Federal 
levels to reduce methane emissions from landfills. You 
mentioned in your testimony that EPA is required to revisit the 
Clean Air Act's Section 111 standards for municipal solid waste 
landfills in August of this year. Is it August of this year? I 
think it is. That is a question. Yes, take my word for it; it 
is August of this year.
    Mr. Frankiewicz. I believe it is August, but I might have 
to get back to you on that.
    Senator Carper. There you go.
    Let me ask a couple of questions that I think followup on 
your conversation with Senator Markey. Would you please expand 
on how both organic waste diversion and EPA's methane emission 
regulations work together to reduce the methane emissions 
associated with landfills?
    Mr. Frankiewicz. Yes, sure. Thank you, Senator Carper. That 
is an excellent question.
    As I mentioned earlier, I think Dr. Scarpelli and I have 
both mentioned this two-pronged approach, and that is because 
the methane comes from the organic matter that decomposes in 
the landfill. Once it is there, the way to control it is with 
gas collection systems, systems of wells and blowers that suck 
up the landfill gas and typically burn it then in a flare. The 
best way to control landfill gas emissions, ultimately, is to 
keep those organics out of the landfill. Once they are in 
there, they can decompose, creating methane for up to 50 years.
    It is not really a matter of doing one or the other. You 
really have to do both. That is why States that have kind of 
taken a two-pronged approach is a really practical way to do 
this, but implementation has been uneven. Really the best way 
to have a comprehensive approach is for EPA to take on both 
revisiting its landfill gas standards, the Section 111 
standards that you mentioned, this summer, but also really 
leaning into organics diversion in parallel.
    Senator Carper. Okay. We have been joined not by Senator 
Merkley, but by Senator Whitehouse. We are happy to turn it 
over to you. I have asked questions and Senator Capito has 
asked her questions, and if you are ready, Senator Whitehouse, 
you are recognized. Glad you are here.
    Senator Whitehouse. Thank you very kindly. I crossed 
Senator Merkley; he was in my Budget hearing. Everybody has a 
lot going on today, but I am grateful for this hearing, and I 
appreciate the witnesses being here.
    Dr. Scarpelli, let me ask you particularly about the 
methane tracking and spotting technology that is out there now 
that we have satellites that can detect methane leaks and 
geolocate with great precision the sources of those leaks. Is 
there anything about a landfill that makes it harder to detect 
by satellite than say, a gas pipeline leak?
    Ms. Scarpelli. Thank you for the question, Senator. 
Landfills are complex engineered systems, and so one of the 
main differences in terms of detecting leaks is that it is a 
large area and there are many potential points that leaks could 
be coming from, whereas in an oil and gas well, there is 
specific infrastructure that are the leak points.
    So that is why it is really key to have comprehensive 
monitoring. You want to be able to see across the facility and 
also there are gas facilities that are maybe capturing the gas 
and sending it to pipeline. You can have leaks across different 
surfaces of the landfill, the actual wells collecting it on the 
landfill. There are all of these potential sources across a 
large area, so it is really important to map that whole area 
for potential leaks.
    Senator Whitehouse. You can at least identify that the leak 
is happening, and then turn to more ground-based detectors to 
figure out which kind of a leak it is if you are looking at a 
leaking landfill?
    Ms. Scarpelli. Yes, and that is why I think it is key to 
have a combination of technologies. Some are better at that 
really high accuracy, where is the leak coming from, versus the 
remote sensing technology, the key there is that we are seeing 
the large sources, and so in terms of prioritizing, we want to 
get the biggest ones first to get the most return on our 
investment and mitigation, and so it really helps prioritize 
and lets us get those big ones first, and then we will move on 
to the smaller leaks.
    Senator Whitehouse. Yes. Do you know what the current 
status is with the EPA folks about having regular and reliable 
access to satellite methane leak data?
    Ms. Scarpelli. I can not speak to EPA regulations. I know 
there has been, there are these fundings to looking into these 
different technologies, and the way that we can best combine 
them to get the most comprehensive view of the sites. We have 
seen that these technologies work, that we can identify leaks, 
and it helps operators mitigate. That has been our experience.
    Senator Whitehouse. Yes. Well, here is what I think is 
happening, and that is that EPA has systematically undercounted 
methane leaks for a very long time. Environmental Defense Fund 
(EDF) has done a far better job of tracking methane leakage, a 
private organization, and EDF thinks that its numbers are 
actually low, because there are some technical issues with 
trying to do really complete tracking. With the advent of 
better satellite methane leak imaging, that can all be 
resolved.
    But EPA having done this poorly for a very, very long time, 
it is my understanding, it has no direct contractual 
relationship with any satellite-providing entity so that it can 
deploy its efforts when a large methane leak appears, which is, 
to me, a little bit like the fire department not tracking where 
smoke is pouring out of buildings and going to respond to the 
problem.
    I just do not know why that has not happened yet. It seems 
like it is an incredibly obvious thing, when the technology is 
out there to access the technology. I understand that NASA has 
acquired a good deal of technology, and that some entities make 
it available for free, but maybe not for free and immediately 
at the same time. Obviously, if you are dealing with a leak, 
immediately is a pretty good value to be able to provide.
    We are hoping that the methane leak task force that has 
been set up will get access to that technology before too long 
so that we can treat a methane leak properly, not just score 
that it happened months later or react after it has been 
spilling for weeks and weeks. To have on-time information that 
causes environmental protection officials, or even local 
lawyers, or the mayor, I do not care whom, to know that there 
is a methane leak going on in real time, and in real time, 
respond and try to get it shut down.
    It just seems unbelievably sloppy to not have that system 
in place. We are counting on that methane task force to cure 
those disabilities, those self-imposed disabilities that have 
been bedeviling EPA.
    Thank you, Chairman.
    Senator Carper. Thank you. Thanks for your vigilance and 
continued involvement in this issue. I know it comes from the 
heart.
    Senator Whitehouse. It is their vigilance that is where the 
issue is.
    Senator Carper. Yes.
    Mr. Frankiewicz. Senator Carper, may I add to that? Is that 
possible?
    Senator Carper. Go ahead.
    Mr. Frankiewicz. Thank you.
    Senator Whitehouse, thank you for raising that point. There 
has been a lot of discussion on technology, and the satellites 
are pretty amazing. The technology does not make the data 
available, and that is something that is really up for both 
State, local, and Federal Government to do.
    Carbon Mapper is one of the few organizations that makes 
all their data available. For years now, companies have been 
availing themselves of private satellite data to better inform 
their operations, but there is no obligation to make that data 
available.
    So that is one thing that we would really like to see, both 
at a State and Federal level, that in addition to this advanced 
monitoring, making sure that it is available in a timely way, 
because emissions transparency is just as important as the 
technology.
    Senator Whitehouse. Just to be clear, I am told that the 
Federal Government is now in procurement mode with regards to 
acquiring access to real time leak detection services. January 
2024, now in procurement mode with respect to acquiring access 
to these services. That kind of speaks for itself.
    Senator Carper. We have been joined by Senator Padilla. 
Senator Padilla, good to see you. How are you? Welcome.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Something that, if I have spoken on it in committee before, 
it has been a while, Mr. Chairman, but I am not sure if you 
knew that when I grew up, we lived not too far from a landfill.
    Senator Carper. Where was that?
    Senator Padilla. In the city of Los Angeles, the northeast 
corner of the San Fernando Valley, the once-upon-a-time 
infamous Lopez Canyon Landfill, to be precise, owned and 
operated by the city of Los Angeles.
    I share that to establish that when I say that living near 
a landfill is beyond just an annoyance, I speak from real world 
experience. It is in many ways a threat to our health, public 
health, individual health.
    It also prompted, Mr. Chairman, my environmental activism, 
because my mom, along with a group of neighbors and community 
leaders, would bring kids out to protest for the closure of the 
landfill. This was back when I was in high school. We bore the 
brunt of what landfills mean in all of the communities in which 
they are located. Too often, it is soil contamination, water 
impacts, diesel trucks driving through your neighborhoods 
emitting toxic exhaust, and on and on and on.
    In California, this is where I want to talk about equity 
for a second, people of color are more than twice as likely to 
live within a mile of a landfill compared to the rest of the 
population.
    Mr. Frankiewicz, can you discuss the health impacts of 
landfill emissions on nearby communities?
    Mr. Frankiewicz. Thank you for raising that really 
important point, because as important as the climate challenge 
is, the impacts of air pollution are felt on a daily basis. I 
mentioned earlier that landfill gases are a mix of a number of 
gases, so it is methane, water, carbon dioxide. It is also a 
long list of hazardous air pollutants, and also smog-forming 
ozone pollution. Those are immediately felt by the local 
community.
    When we talk about controlling methane or even enhanced 
methane recovery, what we are really talking about is reducing 
the amount of air pollution that is affecting local 
communities. One thing I will add to that, some of the 
strategies to improve gas collection, like automated well 
tuning, better cover, leak detection, these are things that 
have a direct impact on safety as well.
    One of the things that can be caused by improperly 
controlled landfill gas collection systems is intrusion of 
oxygen, and that is one thing that causes landfill fires. When 
you operate better, recover more gas and operate a better 
landfill gas collection system, you are reducing pollution and 
drastically improving safety.
    Senator Padilla. We know, as far as we have come in the 
last generation or two, liners to protect soil, groundwater, 
and gas collection systems, to your own point, we still have a 
lot more work to do. Just yesterday, the Los Angeles Times 
reported ``rivers of odorous waste'' erupting like a geyser 
from the Chiquita Canyon Landfill in Southern California. 
Carcinogens like benzene were eight times higher than the 
State's health limit, but these results were not shared with 
the public for weeks.
    To your point, Mr. Frankiewicz, how can EPA provide closer 
to real time information on air quality to the public to 
protect public health?
    Mr. Frankiewicz. I think this, again, comes down to 
emissions transparency, because the technology on its own does 
not put the information in the hands of people for action. 
There are actions that EPA could take, both in terms of grants 
and also provide funding. This would likely be within Congress' 
power to provide funding for both the satellites but also 
making that data available.
    There is some lag time for processing that data, but I 
think of EPA's Air Now portal, because there has been a system 
of air monitors around the Country for years, but it was not 
until Air Now and the Air Quality Index that information became 
accessible to citizens. I think something of that nature would 
really empower local citizens.
    Senator Padilla. Great. I want to connect some dots between 
monitoring, mapping, and remote sensing. I am pleased to see a 
witness today with the Carbon Mapper Project, which partners 
with the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), based in California, 
a facility that I am particularly proud of. Their satellite 
will build off of JPL's EMIT instrument, which was launched in 
2022 and is currently operating on the International Space 
Station.
    Although EMIT, Mr. Chairman, was designed to measure dust, 
it is proven to also detect methane from landfills around the 
world at high spatial resolution.
    Dr. Scarpelli, can you elaborate on how Carbon Mapper's 
project builds on JPL technology for methane detection from 
space?
    Ms. Scarpelli. Thank you for that question, Senator.
    As you mentioned, these technologies are building off of 
each other. The NASA JPL has an airborne instrument as well, 
and they have the NASA EMIT instrument that you mentioned that 
is on the International Space Station.
    Our satellites will be the next generation. They have 
different capabilities, so the idea here is that we are seeing 
high emission sources, and we are getting the information into 
the hands of the operators on the ground who can take action to 
mitigate. We can provide the location of those sources, and so 
the operators know where to look on the ground.
    These are seeing, if we can see it, that means it is pretty 
big. Seeing it from space as well, that means it is pretty 
large. This ranges from 10 kilograms of methane per hour to 
hundreds to thousands of kilograms of methane per hour. As you 
mentioned, these can impact community health.
    We see methane plumes from the landfills that overlap 
surrounding communities. Being able to take that technology and 
get it into the hands of operators to achieve quick mitigation 
will really benefit the local communities.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you very much. My time is up. Thank 
you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Carper. Thanks so much for joining us.
    My colleague knows that my wife and I have a son who lives 
out in California, lives out in the Bay Area. Every now and 
then, when we are on a recess, I go out to California and visit 
technology companies to find folks that are doing things that 
are relevant to our jurisdiction as a committee.
    A year or two ago, or three years ago, I visited a company 
which was taking cow manure and food waste and anaerobic 
digesters and creating, if you will, a fuel for buses and 
trucks and all. If you fly into the San Francisco airport, you 
will notice, I think they do a better job on separating not 
just trash, stuff that is not recyclable, with recyclables, and 
with the food waste. They do a great job. You go throughout the 
SFO airport, and they have these three containers all 
throughout the airport facility. They do a good job.
    California has, as my colleague knows, a lot of cows, and 
they produce a lot of cow manure. In Delaware, we have some 
cows, but we really have a lot of chickens. For every person in 
Delaware, I think there are close to 300 chickens. We are sort 
of using the model that you have pioneered in California in 
DelMarVa, which includes Delaware and Maryland, Senator Cardin, 
have been using the same technology, a different source of 
fuel, not cows, but chickens, and it works pretty darn well.
    I like to say, one of the greatest compliments we can pay 
is copying what others are doing and hopefully making it at 
least as good, maybe better. We will see, but thank you very 
much.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Senator Carper. Senator Merkley is on his way. He is going 
to join us.
    While he is on his way, I am going to ask a couple more 
questions. The first one is to go back with Dr. Scarpelli and 
touch on something we talked about a little bit earlier, and 
then, Ms. Germain, I have a question or two for you.
    Dr. Scarpelli, how can deploying comprehensive monitoring 
provide benefits for both landfill operators and the local 
communities?
    Ms. Scarpelli. Thank you for the question, Senator. I think 
I will split that into operators, then communities. Speaking to 
local communities, we have mentioned that these large methane 
sources can have co-emitted pollutants along with them, so by 
addressing the methane sources quickly, we are also reducing 
that co-emission of the pollutant.
    In addition, we have seen in examples, like for the 
Sunshine Canyon Landfill in California, for example, where by 
mitigating the methane, we also see a reduction in the number 
of odor complaints from the surrounding community at the 
landfill.
    Then speaking to benefits to operators, the key here is we 
want to capture more methane. If they have beneficial use at 
the site, this means more return on investment for the 
operator.
    We see it as technical assistance that the operators can 
take advantage of to go out and find the leak and fix it as 
quickly as possible, because landfills are complex, so knowing 
where to look on the landfill, where the leak is, it is not an 
easy task. Sometimes mitigation, it is engineering design, and 
so verifying that once you have made a change, the emissions 
actually were reduced, is also incredibly important and useful 
to the operator.
    Senator Carper. Thank you.
    Ms. Germain, I will probably ask Mr. Frankiewicz to join 
you in answering this question, but I want to lead off with 
you, if we could.
    In addition to methane, landfill gas contains, as we have 
heard here today, hazardous air pollutants, odors, and other 
dangerous gases. They impact air quality, they impact health, 
and they impact our quality of life for neighboring 
communities, many of which are already vulnerable anyway.
    Ms. Germain, your organization is a national leader in 
landfill management policy and has a unique perspective in the 
community impacts related to this pollution. I oftentimes, and 
my colleagues would bear this out, but I oftentimes use the 
phrase, find out what works and do more of that. What we are 
trying to do is a little bit of that as we address this 
problem, this challenge, but I think it is an opportunity.
    Would you share an example or two of government or maybe 
corporate policies that are helping to reduce methane emissions 
from landfills through gas capture or organics diversion?
    Ms. Germain. Sure. One of the things that we have seen a 
lot of are, our members have made sustainability commitments. 
They have made them publicly, and so from a corporate 
initiative, looking at some of those corporate policies where 
they have made the sustainability commitments that encompasses 
methane reductions.
    So we collectively have been looking at a lot of the 
technologies that have been discussed already, not just 
satellite, but also aerial, drone, ground based. In fact, 
recently, collectively, we worked to, as an industry, to do a 
controlled release and tested out 14 different technologies.
    So there is a tremendous number of different technologies 
out there. Which one is the right one, which one is best, are 
they all good? We are not sure. We have not had the opportunity 
to really explore that. EPA has not had the funding to be able 
to conduct some of this research, so the industry collectively 
conducted some of this research back in November. We just got 
the results in earlier this year, and we anticipate presenting 
it at a conference at the end of February. This will give us 
additional information on which of the technologies will be 
most useful so that we can utilize that going forward in our 
efforts to use best practices in reducing our methane emission 
from our sites.
    Senator Carper. Good. I do not know if either of our other 
witnesses would like to add to that or add their thoughts on 
that last question, but the question I was asking Ms. Germain 
was to share an example or two of corporate policies that are 
helping to reduce methane emissions from landfills through gas 
capture or organics diversion. Would either of you want to add 
to that?
    Ms. Scarpelli. I would like to add something to that. I 
just want to reiterate the importance of doing these controlled 
release experiments. This really does help technologies both 
determine and improve their own methodologies and validate the 
technology.
    One of the important things is that I know it is not easy 
to do a controlled release. We are seeing these very large 
emission sources from some landfills. Being able to release an 
accurate amount of methane that reflects that, so that the 
technologies can really be tested on those large releases is 
really important.
    Senator Carper. Yes, ma'am. Ms. Germain, go ahead.
    Ms. Germain. Yes. As we, and thanks, Tia, for saying that, 
because we think it is really important to continue on with 
these controlled release studies.
    We did have to conduct this controlled release study in 
Canada because the length of time for us to be able to get 
authorization to do it in the U.S., due to the length of time 
for us to get the permitting, was going to be very time 
consuming. We also have received interest from the Canadian 
government to help support ongoing research in this area, and 
we would certainly appreciate some of those similar efforts in 
the U.S.
    Senator Carper. Good. Let me come back to Mr. Frankiewicz, 
if I could, but would you, Mr. Frankiewicz, please provide for 
us some examples of the additional benefits that promote the 
health and well-being of nearby communities with the kind of 
technology we are talking about here today?
    Mr. Frankiewicz. Thank you, Senator, I am happy to. There 
are really a multitude of benefits.
    When you are talking about landfill gas control, as I have 
mentioned a couple times now, you are controlling gases across 
the board, and so there is immediate air quality benefits. Also 
something that is not mentioned often, but is a significant 
issue, is odor. Not all landfills cause odors. A well-managed 
gas system certainly prevents it, but odor is probably the No. 
1 issue that local communities will complain of. Things that 
you do to improve gas collection, reduce leaks, have bio-
covers, all reduce odors and hazardous air pollutants that 
impact communities.
    I will give the example of Wake County in North Carolina. 
They were under an enforcement action for odor problems, and 
the way that they remedied it was through a combination of 
monitoring, finding and fixing leaks, and improving cover, 
intermediate cover and daily cover for their site. It had an 
immediate impact.
    Then, also, the other part of this two-pronged approach we 
keep talking about, when it comes to organics diversion, and 
not just diversion, but avoiding food loss and food waste, that 
is a food security issue. There are plenty of families that are 
food insecure, yet at the same time, we are throwing away food 
each year. Things to reduce food loss, food waste, getting that 
food into food banks improves food security.
    Last, we all talk about the benefits of composting. I think 
there is pretty strong support for that, but one of the things 
that I think is not mentioned often enough, one of the key 
reasons for composting organic waste is that you are able to 
actually recover those nutrients that are in soil. All those 
nutrients that go into growing food, when that organic waste 
goes into a landfill, it is locked there. When you actually 
compost the food waste, that compost and those nutrients go 
back to the farms.
    So people always talk about, without farms, there is no 
food. Well, without healthy soil, there is no farms, and so it 
is really important to close that loop.
    Senator Carper. One of my friends likes to say that 
composting is the gift that keeps on giving, and there is 
actually a lot of truth to that.
    I have maybe one more question for Ms. Germain and for Mr. 
Frankiewicz. My colleagues hear me say some things over and 
over again that I think bear repeating. I have often said that 
recycling is a win-win solution. That is because diverting 
waste is not only good for our environment; it is also good for 
the economy; it is good for job creation. I am always looking 
for win-wins.
    There is so much that we are doing to protect our 
environment, to address climate change, that actually does 
create a lot of jobs. Jeff, welcome.
    Would each of you just take a moment while Senator Merkley 
is settling in, would each of you, Ms. Germain and Mr. 
Frankiewicz, share some more information, with us, if you will, 
on how organics waste diversion can increase employment rates 
and contribute to economic growth? Do you want to lead us off 
on that?
    Ms. Germain. With respect to organics, obviously, as Tom 
already said, there are a lot of benefits to organics 
composting or anaerobic digestion. You have soil amendment. 
With anaerobic digestion, you have the opportunity to gain 
energy from that.
    The issue right now is that we do not have adequate 
infrastructure, so we would need to ensure that we buildup the 
infrastructure. We definitely, I will go back to, I know I am 
repeating myself, but I will go back to the labeling issue, 
where we really need to focus on ensuring that the product that 
we create is usable as an end product.
    So we really need to focus on the contamination issues 
related to that, because everybody wants to be able to claim 
that their packaging is compostable, and it is just not the 
case with a lot of it. We really need to be thoughtful and 
mindful as we move forward with diverting materials.
    As far as the comment about reducing our food waste, 
certainly, I agree. We want to ensure that the hierarchy that 
EPA has established, we want to feed hungry people, we want to 
feed hungry animals first, but recognize that a lot of our food 
waste, if it is a banana peel, that is not going to be feeding 
anybody. We are going to want to end up managing that in a 
different way, and so that is going to end up in the waste 
system.
    Senator Carper. I might add, my colleagues, Senator Capito 
and our colleague from Arkansas as well, Senator Boozman, are 
very much involved in the Recycling Caucus, leading it. One of 
the things we have done here, I believe in leadership by 
example, and one of the things we have done here on Capitol 
Hill, in our office, and I hope in every Senate office and 
hopefully in every House office, right in our offices is the 
opportunity for our employees to recycle plastics, metal, 
aluminum metal, whatever, glass. We have composting capability, 
as well.
    We are a pretty faithful, pretty good at it. I am very 
proud. We can always do better, but I am proud.
    Mr. Frankiewicz, I want to come back to you with the same 
question, and then I am going to kick it over to Senator 
Merkley. Again, what are some specific jobs associated with 
organics recycling and waste diversion? And then Senator 
Merkley.
    Mr. Frankiewicz. Ms. Germain talked about the importance of 
moving up the waste hierarchy. One of the things you see in 
moving up the waste hierarchy is, the farther up you go, the 
more jobs that are created. Roughly speaking, for every $10 
million invested in waste management, there are 21.4 full time 
jobs created in composting, while landfilling supports 8.4 to 
incineration's 1.6. Certainly, money invested in waste 
management creates jobs, but the farther up you go up the waste 
hierarchy, the more jobs that are created.
    Senator Carper. Good.
    Senator Merkley, welcome. Good to see you again, twice in 
one day. We showed up for work together, and here we are, 
together again.
    Senator Merkley. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you all for bringing your expertise to the hearing 
today. I wanted to understand a little bit more about the 
monitoring of methane emissions. Mr. Frankiewicz, the 
traditional monitoring approach is, whether it is modeling 
based on assumptions or ground-based monitoring, and I think 
that is primarily done through an infrared technology, but 
perhaps you can clarify. Are those adequate to inform our 
approaches to methane emissions?
    Mr. Frankiewicz. I am sorry, I did not quite hear the last 
part.
    Senator Merkley. Are the traditional approaches, either 
just modeling based on preexisting assumptions, or kind of 
ground-based monitoring sufficient to understand really the 
amount of methane that is emerging from different settings?
    Mr. Frankiewicz. They are not adequate, and we see two ways 
that technology can improve those estimates. Generally 
speaking, the kind of landscape of the technology that you 
have, some of it overlaps, but generally speaking, you have 
technology that is maybe more focused on emissions 
quantification and others that are better at detection.
    When it comes to quantification, the observations that are 
done through a network of satellites can both ground truth and 
improve the modeling methodology. It is not in a place to 
replace it, but it could certainly improve the measurements 
that are used for both modeling and inventory purposes.
    When it comes to detection, the current methodology is 
highly subjective. There are technologies that are drone-
assisted, but still operated by people that drastically improve 
the chances of detecting and fixing those leaks.
    Senator Merkley. As we have brought these technologies to 
bear, satellite monitoring, drone monitoring, have we found 
that our original estimates of methane were on target, or were 
they significantly lower than what we are discovering?
    Mr. Frankiewicz. They found that they are significantly 
lower, and in fact, EPA came out with a report recently on its 
Greenhouse Gas Reporting Program that generally found that the 
inventory underreported based on current modeling-based 
methodology.
    Senator Merkley. Let me turn specifically to landfills. Do 
we spot super emitters like landfills better in terms of using 
satellite or drone technology? Is it helping us understand the 
large scope of the problem?
    Mr. Frankiewicz. They are, and I will certainly defer to 
Dr. Scarpelli on this specific technology. One of the things 
that EMIT and other technology has shown is that you can detect 
these from space. When it comes to pinpointing those leaks, 
that is where it is helpful to use kind of a matrix approach to 
pinpoint these leaks, but you absolutely can see these super 
plumes from space.
    Senator Merkley. Dr. Scarpelli, do you want to amplify on 
that?
    Ms. Scarpelli. Yes, I agree with Mr. Frankiewicz's 
comments. We can use these technologies to see these large 
emissions sources. One of the benefits of remote sensing, and 
we have seen this in practice working with State governments, 
is that you get a view across the facility. You do not 
necessarily need to know where the leak is coming from to see 
it, because we are seeing all the full facility, and we can 
quickly survey multiple sites.
    These satellites are circling the Earth, so it can see 
across the U.S. It is not just one drone at one facility, and 
so having a combination of these different scaled technologies 
is really important for identifying those high emitters.
    Senator Merkley. I have heard that the EPA has kind of 
dragged its feet on contracting for satellite based methane 
contracting. What is that all about?
    Ms. Scarpelli. I can not speak to EPA's contracting. I 
would say there is a need to have Federal support to help scale 
up these technologies and provide access to the data quickly. 
The feedback we have gotten from operators is that it is really 
important to get the data quickly and have the data be 
transparent so that they can quickly fix leaks. That is one of 
the roles that the Federal Government can play.
    Senator Merkley. Mr. Chairman, this is something that 
perhaps we can followup on, because if we have this high value 
satellite technology that EPA has been funded to contract for 
but has not contracted for, then maybe we can help accelerate 
that process to try to help tackle this challenge.
    Once we identify the particularly significant sites, and I 
was surprised to come to understand how significant landfills 
are, do we have, really, the affordable technologies to be able 
to capture that methane out of landfills? Do we have the 
funding to tackle that challenge? It is going to take more 
Federal help?
    Ms. Scarpelli. I can speak to the monitoring perspective on 
that. We do have monitoring technologies that can help find 
these leaks, and these are being deployed at landfills. Really, 
the key here is we just need to scale up the use of these 
technologies. I defer to others in terms of the availability of 
actual design changes that can be made to achieve the 
mitigation.
    Mr. Frankiewicz. Yes, the control technology is proven. It 
is gas collection, soil cover, finding and fixing leaks, these 
are things that landfills have been doing for a long time. With 
advanced monitoring and doing it in tandem, they are actually 
able to design these systems better and operate them better.
    Ms. Germain. I just wanted to clarify that as we talk about 
finding the leaks, and certainly, that is one of the things we 
are really interested in deploying these technologies for, is 
to be able to find the leaks and repair them as quickly as 
possible, the subtext seems to be that all the landfills have 
leaks. A lot of the measurements have been non-detects, so most 
landfills have no detectable leaks, and I do not know that is 
coming across during this conversation. As some of these 
flyovers and detections are occurring, most of the landfills do 
not have any leaks, but the landfills that do can have 
significant leaks that, if they are told about quickly, can be 
immediately repaired.
    Senator Merkley. I know I have run over my time, so you can 
interrupt me, Mr. Chairman. My impression has been that when 
you have landfills that have been filled with gravel or soil, 
it is one thing, but when you have garbage and other things 
that are decomposing, it is quite another that is the place 
where you have landfills with really high methane emissions.
    Why do some landfills have, as you pointed out, little 
methane, but are significant emitters?
    Ms. Germain. It is usually a function of the collection 
system, so even the municipal solid waste landfills that take 
all the organic matter, they have those landfills that have 
shown to have no leaks.
    Senator Merkley. It is attributed to the effectiveness of 
the technology?
    Ms. Germain. Right, and so, as we have been talking about, 
if you can go rapidly, fix the leak, correct it, then it can be 
confirmed on the next flyover. They can confirm that there is 
no more leak from that facility.
    Senator Merkley. Doctor?
    Ms. Scarpelli. It is true that we do, speaking to how many 
emitters we see, we have surveyed about 300 landfills in the 
U.S., and we have seen 200 of those landfills have high 
emissions. It is not necessarily that the biggest ones are the 
ones with the biggest emissions, and the emissions do vary by 
site.
    We find that the landfill workface is a major source of 
emissions, and then the landfill gas capture system is also, 
and this can be if the wells are flooded, they potentially 
would have methane leak out of those wells.
    We have seen it with the flare stacks. If the flare is down 
for a period of time, you can have methane leaking out of that. 
We have seen these varied emissions sources across the 
landfill. We have had examples, as well, where we have 
identified the methane leak from surface cover, for example, 
and then the operator has gone in, made adjustments to the 
cover, we have flown it again, and we have seen the leaks have 
actually been reduced. We have used the technology to verify 
that.
    Senator Merkley. Well, that is very effective.
    To the degree that there is organic matter in the landfill, 
do we see cities going, we will reduce the methane leak by 
having separate organic digesters to essentially produce 
methane and maybe put it into the fossil gas system, or in 
other words, keep it out of the landfill to begin with?
    Mr. Frankiewicz. Keeping it out of the landfill is 
definitely the right approach. That will, in the long term, 
reduce overall methane emissions from landfills, but because 
you mentioned the waste in place, right, that decomposes for 
upwards of 50 years. Unfortunately, you do have to do both at 
the same time.
    Just to put a finer point on Dr. Scarpelli's point about 
detecting leaks from space, I think some of these large super 
emitters, you can see from space, and for sure, that should be 
an area of focus. That should not be the rule of thumb, right, 
only control what you see from space, and that is where near 
aerial observations and drone based observations are important, 
because then you could look at, and we advocate for lowering 
the detection threshold from 500 ppm to something closer to 200 
ppm. Just because you can not see it from space does not mean 
you might not have a large, diffuse area of source emissions 
across the cover. That is where things like using bio-covers 
and autotuning of wells to better control your gas can reduce 
those leaks that you may not see.
    Senator Merkley. Thank you all very much, again. Thank you, 
Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Carper. Thanks very much for joining us, Senator 
Merkley, and for your consistent and excellent leadership.
    We have a vote underway. I need to run and vote before time 
runs out.
    Before that, I am going to telegraph my pitch. In baseball, 
you want to pitch in a way that we can see how the pitcher 
holds the ball before he releases the ball to the plate, figure 
out if they are going to throw a spitball or a screwball, a 
hanging curveball, you can tell by the way they telegraph their 
pitch. I am going to telegraph my pitch.
    I am going to telegraph and say that I am going to tell a 
quick story, and then I am going to come back to each of you 
and ask you to take maybe a minute and just tell us where you 
think there is really important common ground that we have 
heard here in this hearing. It has been an excellent hearing, 
and we are grateful for that, but just be thinking about that. 
Now, I will tell you a story.
    I have been a naval flight officer in the Vietnam War and 
spent half my time in Southeast Asia with my squadron and half 
of our time flying out of Moffett Field Naval Air Station, 
which is right on Route 101, across from Mountain View, 
California, about halfway between San Jose and San Francisco. I 
mentioned earlier some of the things that I have learned by 
going back to that part of the world and about, among other 
things, anaerobic digestion. The first time I ever learned 
about it was back out there to see one of our sons.
    When I left California and moved to Delaware to get an MBA, 
I continued to fly with the Navy in the Reserves for another 
almost 20 years, but my first week or two in Delaware, I met, I 
got instated in an MBA program.
    We had to find, one of our assignments in this one course 
was to find a company in Delaware that was always in the news 
for getting in trouble with the Delaware Department of Natural 
Resources or with EPA, and then do a study of that and report 
back.
    I found out that I did not know much about Delaware, but I 
found that they had an oil refinery called Getty Refinery, as 
in J. Paul Getty, right at the Delaware River in Delaware City. 
I decided I was going to do my research project on that 
refinery, which was one of the worst polluters on the East 
Coast. I found out that the person I should talk to about their 
violations was actually a Deputy Attorney General down in 
Dover, Delaware, and that if I could track him or her down, I 
could really get a lot of help on my assignment.
    I drove in my Volkswagen Karmann Ghia with a rebuilt engine 
from Newark, Delaware, where the university was, to Dover, 
Delaware. I found Dover, Delaware. I found the Department of 
Natural Resources and Environmental Control. I found the 
building where the Deputy Attorney General for that agency was 
working, and I found him on the second floor of that building.
    His name was Mike Parkowski. He could not have been more 
helpful. He welcomed me warmly. I had been in Delaware a couple 
weeks. He welcomed me warmly, provided access, he had filing 
cabinet after filing cabinet of violations from the Getty 
Refinery. He gave me access to that, a desk to work in.
    I worked, and I would come back week after week and do my 
research and all. His wife offered to type my research paper 
for me. I did not need any help, but I certainly appreciated 
all the help that he provided.
    Mike Parkowski has a son, and I think you might know the 
son, Anne. His name is also Mike Parkowski. What does he do 
today? Can you turn on your mic and tell us what he does?
    Ms. Germain. Mike is responsible for a lot of the outreach 
and government affairs and policy work for the Delaware Solid 
Waste Authority.
    Senator Carper. Just last week, my staff and I visited the 
educational facility that they have in Dover, Delaware, where 
thousands, probably tens of thousands of students come every 
year and learn about recycling and our planet and so forth, and 
he does a great job. It is nice to see that one generation 
follows another.
    I am going to ask, again, each of you to take just a moment 
now and just share with us the common ground that I mentioned 
earlier. Tom, if you want to lead off, that would be great. 
Just briefly.
    Mr. Frankiewicz. Thank you, Senator Carper, for that story.
    Senator Carper. Isn't that a great story? I just made it 
up, so.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Carper. Not really.
    Mr. Frankiewicz. Well, I appreciate the time. It allowed me 
to get my thoughts together.
    Senator Carper. There you go. That was the idea.
    Mr. Frankiewicz. I think, hopefully, what you can see here 
by the different points we are making, they do not differ very 
much. I think we agree on more than we disagree on.
    Since 2016, the last update of the NSPS standards for 
landfill gas, the technology has advanced rapidly. There is 
technology that we could use to better find and fix leaks, 
identify super emitters, and better inform models and 
inventory.
    We are already collaborating with the waste industry in 
identifying some of these solutions. We would like to continue 
that, and we would like to see EPA join us in this effort by 
incorporating these advances into stronger Section 111 
standards.
    Senator Carper. Great. Thanks.
    Dr. Scarpelli?
    Ms. Scarpelli. Yes, just to second that, and we have seen 
here today that landfills are large methane emitters. Not all 
landfills are large emitters, and there is huge potential for 
mitigation. The role of advanced monitoring is to guide 
mitigation practices to identify the leaks, help the operator 
go through, and also verify that once the mitigation has taken 
place, that emissions are actually reduced.
    There is also a role for accounting for emissions, and this 
will play a role for climate policy, that we need to know, our 
models need to be accurate. Using the data as well to help 
inform models and inventories will also be important.
    Senator Carper. Thank you. Ms. Germain?
    Ms. Germain. We have made tremendous progress over the last 
30 years, as I stated in my opening remarks. We have reduced 
our methane emissions by about 45 percent since 1990. However, 
that still means that we have a long way to go, and we 
recognize that. We are committed to meeting the global methane 
pledge made by the Administration of reducing our methane 
emissions by another 15 percent by 2030. We are committed to 
using technology to help support those efforts.
    Senator Carper. Great. Thank you.
    I am going to wrap it up here, but in wrapping it up, I 
just want to thank each of our witnesses for your preparation 
and for taking the time to join us today. I want to thank you 
for what you do with your lives.
    There are a lot of important issues that we consider in the 
Senate and in this room, but I do not think anything is more 
important than what we have discussed here today. As we have 
heard, we have the tools at our disposal to really, I will 
notsay quickly, but expeditiously reduce methane emissions from 
landfills. We are doing it, we can, as we said earlier, we can 
always do better.
    New technologies to detect and quantify emissions, when 
combined with techniques to avoid and capture methane 
emissions, not only drastically or dramatically reduce 
emissions, but can also create new jobs, new jobs 
opportunities. I am always about, how do we do good things for 
our planet and create jobs at the same time, and they actually 
can work together.
    Implementing these tools effectively can improve the health 
of our communities and slow the progression of climate change, 
a true win-win situation. I look forward to working with my 
colleagues, Democrat and Republican, on this committee, and in 
the full Senate to continue this conversation, and make real 
progress in reducing landfill methane emissions.
    Before we adjourn, just a little bit of housekeeping. 
Senators may submit questions for the record until the close of 
business on Wednesday, February 14th. When is Valentine's Day? 
Is that Valentine's Day? What a day to remember. We will 
compile those questions and send them to our witnesses. We will 
ask our witnesses to reply by Wednesday, February 28th.
    Before I adjourn, I just want to say to our staff members 
on both the Republican and Democratic sides, majority and 
minority, how much we appreciate, on behalf of my colleagues 
and Senator Capito, how much we appreciate the work that went 
into making this hearing occur. It has been a great hearing 
and, I think, an encouraging hearing.
    In the world that we live in, there is a lot to be worried 
about, concerned about, and this is one, certainly climate 
change is a big one, but there is good work that is being done, 
important work that is being done, and we have heard about how 
we can do that even better going forward.
    With that, it is a wrap. This hearing is adjourned. Thank 
you all very, very much.
    [Whereupon, at 11:56 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
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