[Senate Hearing 118-369]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                         S. Hrg. 118-369

                    HORTICULTURE TITLE: HOW THE FARM BILL 
                     WORKS FOR SPECIALTY CORP PRODUCERS

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                            SUBCOMMITTEE ON
                    FOOD AND NUTRITION, SPECIALTY CROPS, 
                           RGANICS, AND RESEARCH

                                 OF THE

                       COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE,
                        NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                              June 7, 2023

                               __________

                       Printed for the use of the
           Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry
           
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                  Available on http://www.govinfo.gov/
                  
                              __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
56-335 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2024                    
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------                      
              
           COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY


                 DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan, Chairwoman
SHERROD BROWN, Ohio                  JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota             MITCH McCONNELL, Kentucky
MICHAEL F. BENNET, Colorado          JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York      JONI ERNST, Iowa
TINA SMITH, Minnesota                CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois          ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas
CORY BOOKER, New Jersey              TOMMY TUBERVILLE, Alabama
BEN RAY LUJAN, New Mexico            MIKE BRAUN, Indiana
RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia             CHARLES GRASSLEY, Iowa
PETER WELCH, Vermont                 JOHN THUNE, South Dakota
JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania         DEB FISCHER, Nebraska

                 Erica Chabot, Majority Staff Director
                 Chu-Yuan Hwang, Majority Chief Counsel
                    Jessica L. Williams, Chief Clerk
               Fitzhugh Elder IV, Minority Staff Director
                 Jackie Barber, Minority Chief Counsel
                              
                              ----------                              

  Subcommittee on Food and Nutrition, Specialty Crops, Organics, and 
                                Research

                 JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania Chairman
SHERROD BROWN, Ohio                  MIKE BRAUN, Indiana
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota             MITCH McCONNELL, Kentucky
KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York      JONI ERNST, Iowa
CORY BOOKER, New Jersey              ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas
RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia             TOMMY TUBERVILLE, Alabama
                            
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                        Wednesday, June 7, 2023

                                                                   Page

Hearing:

Horticulture Title: How The Farm Bill Works For Specialty Corp 
  Producers......................................................     1

                              ----------                              

                    STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY SENATORS

Fetterman, Hon. John, U.S. Senator from the State of Pennsylvania     1
Braun, Hon. Mike, U.S. Senator from the State of Indiana.........     2

                               WITNESSES

Alonzo, Chris, Owner/Operator, Pietro Farms, Kennett Square, PA..     3
Carter, Nicholas, Owner, Mud Creek Farm; Co-Founder, Market 
  Wagon, Indianapolis, IN........................................     5
Wingard, Charles A., Vice President, Field Operations, Walter P. 
  Rawl and Sons, Pelion, SC......................................     7
Worthington, Margaret Leigh, Ph.D., Associate Professor, 
  Horticulture, University of Arkansas System Division of 
  Agriculture, Fayetteville, AR..................................     9
Kobus, Diana, Executive Director, PCO Certified Organic, Spring 
  Mills, PA......................................................    11
                              ----------                              

                                APPENDIX

Prepared Statements:
    Alonzo, Chris................................................    30
    Carter, Nicholas.............................................    31
    Wingard, Charles A...........................................    35
    Worthington, Margaret Leigh, Ph.D............................    40
    Kobus, Diana.................................................    46

Question and Answer:
Alonzo, Chris:
    Written response to questions from Hon. John Fetterman.......    52
Worthington, Margaret Leigh, Ph.D.:
    Written response to questions from Hon. Amy Klobuchar........    54
Kobus, Diana:
    Written response to questions from Hon. John Fetterman.......    56
    Written response to questions from Hon. Amy Klobuchar........    58

 
    HORTICULTURE TITLE: HOW THE FARM BILL WORKS FOR SPECIALTY CORP 
                               PRODUCERS

                              ----------                              


                        Wednesday, June 7, 2023

                                        U.S. Senate
    Subcommittee on Food and Nutrition, Specialty Crops, 
Organics, and Research
          Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in 
room 328A, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. John Fetterman, 
Chairman of the Subcommittee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Fetterman [presiding], Stabenow, Brown, 
Klobuchar, Booker, Warnock, Braun, Boozman, Marshall and 
Tuberville.
    Also Present: Senator Welch

 STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN FETTERMAN, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE 
                        OF PENNSYLVANIA

    Senator Fetterman. Good morning. I call this hearing of the 
U.S. Senate Subcommittee on Food and Nutrition and Specialty 
Crops, Organics, and Research to order.
    We need a farm bill that works for all of our farmers. That 
includes small farmers, and critically, farmers who grow crops 
like hemp, fruits, tree nuts, and vegetables. That is why we 
are holding this hearing today. The farm bill safety net 
programs have been vital for some producers, but as we consider 
this farm bill we must expand the support for specialty crops. 
This is an opportunity to decrease risk for our farmers, 
stabilize our food supply chain, increase accessibility to 
healthy fruits and vegetables, and support an important sector 
of this agriculture industry, and supporting specialty crop 
producers is crucial for my State, with a robust specialty crop 
industry.
    Particularly, Pennsylvania is known for its booming 
mushroom industry, in fact, it's known as the mushroom of the 
capital world. More than 60 percent of mushrooms produced in 
the United States is grown right in Kennett Square in 
Pennsylvania. Woo-hoo.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Fetterman. Mushroom farms are significant regional 
economic drivers. According to Penn State Extension, the 
industry employs nearly 9,500 people in the region and 
contributes an estimated $2.7 billion to our local economy. 
Currently mushroom producers are not covered under crop 
insurance. This exclusion could harm mushroom producers and the 
broader local economy. That is not just a mushroom problem. It 
is also not just a Pennsylvania problem, specialty crops are 
drivers of local economies across the country. The bottom line 
is that we can strengthen local economies, supporting these 
small farms.
    My colleagues and I have already been working ahead to 
support small farmers. I am proud to be a co-sponsor of Senator 
Brown's Local Farms and Food Act of 2023. This bill will invest 
in farmers by making it easier for them to grow their 
businesses, sell directly to their communities. This is a 
necessary investment in rural communities that will increase 
access to nutritious, locally grown crops. It will cut red tape 
and make it easier for farmers to bring their products to 
market. I am also excited to announce my bipartisan Protecting 
Mushroom Farmers Act. This will be directed at USDA to study 
crop insurance for mushroom production, to help these farmers. 
Finally, I look forward to working closely with my colleague, 
Senator Braun, to support farms impacted by the horticulture 
title.
    I am now pleased to turn this over to Senator Braun.

 STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE BRAUN, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF 
                            INDIANA

    Senator Braun. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is interesting 
here because we are talking about a small part of the farm 
bill, and the farm bill is at a record level in terms of 
spending. I am concerned about that larger picture of where we 
are at as a government in terms of how we are borrowing so much 
money, just routinely, year after year. Many things that we 
need to well here, this would be an example of it.
    This is a small percentage of the farm bill, but as the 
Chairman has talked about, this is that leading edge of where 
you are coming up with new ideas for agriculture. You are also 
addressing sustainability. We have got panelists here today 
that will help us out with that discussion.
    Indiana is a State where it is the second-biggest industry, 
and we are the largest State in the country on manufacturing 
per capita. Agriculture is right there behind it. We are known 
for a lot of specialty crops, including tomatoes for process 
experiment, peppermint, watermelons. I, back many years ago, 
started a turkey brooding and raising business that was right 
when they were coming from the range into confinement. That is 
how important agriculture is to our State.
    Just like with many things, you have got to be careful that 
you keep it entrepreneurial, you keep a good business 
environment. A lot of times with any legislation comes 
regulation that sometimes works across purposes. I want to make 
sure that we are aware of that.
    A couple of bills out there that we are sponsoring. The 
Plant Biostimulant Act. They have taken off in foreign markets. 
They are less known in the U.S. My bill would build on the USDA 
report from 2018 by codifying a definition of plant 
biostimulant and ensuring that these products have a clear 
pathway to market. Something new. We want to make sure it has 
got the proper amount of regulation. We do not want to stifle 
it along the way.
    Industrial Hemp Act. That is from the time I spent here, a 
big industry across at least 18 to 20 other countries, mostly 
for the fiber, not the oil or the seed stock in producing it. 
We need to get at that forefront, so we are a competitor in the 
world arena there. I have got a bill, along with Senator 
Tester, that I think is at the forefront of putting that proper 
mix of good context for the industry. Again, do not 
overregulate it.
    American Food for American Schools Act, another bill out 
there.
    I think, from this Committee, I am glad the Chairman is 
putting emphasis on small entities within agriculture, the 
things that are going to turn it around into being an industry 
maybe different from what it is today. This discussion right 
here today is where it starts. I am glad to be a part of it and 
am looking forward to hearing from our witnesses.
    Senator Fetterman. Thank you, Senator, and I am excited to 
hear from the expert witnesses joining us today, and who will 
introduce themselves shortly.
    We have Mr. Chris Alonzo, the President and Owner of Pietro 
Industries, Inc., and a third-generation mushroom farmer in 
Kennett Square.
    Mr. Charles Wingard, the Vice President of Field Operations 
at Walter Rawl and Sons, Inc., based in Pelion, South Carolina.
    Ms. Diana Kobus, the Executive Director for PCO Certified 
Organic.
    Now I turn this back over to my colleague, Senator Braun.
    Senator Braun. I have the pleasure of introducing Mr. Nick 
Carter from Indiana, a true entrepreneur. When we met earlier 
so many parallels. When I got started as an entrepreneur many, 
many years, you are doing it in an area I think that is so 
important. You are a farmer, entrepreneur, co-founder of Market 
Wagon, an online marketplace that connects food consumers 
directly with local farmers and artisans. Nick has co-founded 
or founded over half a dozen companies in technology and food 
sectors. He currently operates his own family farm called Mud 
Creek Farm. He is an active investor and advocate for food and 
agricultural businesses. From the day he got out of high 
school, he has been an entrepreneur and involved, and an 
amazing track record.
    He is an active member of the Indiana Farm Bureau and 
serves on the organization's Diversified Agriculture Policy 
Advisory Group. He is passionate about using innovation to 
reconnect agri and culture. He is also the author of ``More 
Than a Mile: What America Needs From Local Food.'' I look 
forward to hearing your thoughts.
    Senator Fetterman. Thank you.
    Mr. Alonzo, we will now start with your opening statement. 
You are now recognized for five minutes.

   STATEMENT OF CHRIS ALONZO, OWNER/OPERATOR, PIETRO FARMS, 
                       KENNETT SQUARE, PA

    Mr. Alonzo. Senators Fetterman and Braun and members of the 
Subcommittee, thank you for having me here today. My name is 
Chris Alonzo, and as you heard, I am a third-generation 
mushroom farmer from Kennett Square, Pennsylvania, and I have 
been growing mushrooms my whole life. I saw it with my father 
and followed in his footsteps.
    While production in California, Oklahoma, Texas, Tennessee 
and other States are also strong with mushrooms, Pennsylvania 
produces two-thirds of all the mushrooms in the country. With 
this, we do this 365 days a year with agriculture. We employ 
over 10,000 people in mushrooms. However, we know that for 
every ag job there are five non-ag jobs. Really, it is over 
50,000 people, and that is what contributes to the economy in 
Pennsylvania and to the country.
    Our farm, Pietro Industries, Pietro means Peter in Italian, 
my grandfather's name, was founded in 1938. My grandfather was 
a founding member of the American Mushroom Institute, and so I 
am representing AMI today. In addition, I was on the board of 
the USDA-based Mushroom Council, so I come to you today humbly 
with a lot of experience talking about mushrooms, which I love.
    Mushrooms are a uniquely nutritious, fresh, and functional 
food. It is a great source of protein and disease-fighting 
properties. Researchers have identified cancer-inhibiting 
compounds in the grocery store mushroom. They found that just 
adding a little bit of mushrooms into your diet helps increase 
the intake of these micronutrients, like vitamin D.
    Mushrooms also have a great taste, great ``umami'' flavor, 
and they are healthy, they are hearty, they are filling. 
Whether you are a vegetarian or a meat-eater, they either make 
the main plate of the meal or they are a great addition to your 
meal. My son actually loves to go in, pick them off the beds, 
eat them straight whenever I give tours, and ask the other 
people on the tour to eat them fresh. Not everybody does.
    Mushrooms are also uniquely sustainable. They reuse water 
and grow on a small footprint. Just one acre of land can grow a 
million pounds of mushrooms a year. That is this controlled 
environment that we can have within mushrooms. That is also 
what makes us different and unique than some other crops, why 
we are here, why we are specialty crops.
    The mushroom compost, the food for the mushroom, is 
formulated using 30 different ag byproducts--corn, corn stove, 
hay, straw, poultry litter. We take all these byproducts from 
other farmers and make into our beneficial uses. We grow 
mushrooms and we also have the byproduct which is a great soil 
at the end. It is the food we eat, and this soil at the end, 
and taking these byproducts from other farmers, helps keep the 
watershed healthy with less runoff. Mushroom growers, 
therefore, not only produce mushrooms but a reusable, value-add 
soil amendment that sequesters carbon and regenerates soil.
    All of these nutrition and mushroom compost discoveries 
have come from investment in research. Yet, the mushroom 
industry lacks critical resources required to stay competitive 
when it comes to operations. In an increasingly fast-paced 
agricultural sector, mushrooms need a few things. We need 
research on integrated pest management to mitigate mushroom-
specific pests and pathogens. We need research on the 
beneficial uses of mushroom compost, which is not a fertilizer 
but actually sequesters carbon and regenerates our soil. We 
need research on harvesting mechanization for increased yield, 
quality, and employee retention. We also need research on the 
potential value to the industry of crop insurance.
    These mushrooms are too perishable to import or export 
overseas. Fresh mushrooms are actually a national commodity 
that should be treasured. We need your help. Mushroom farmers 
are truly feeding America, and your support of research through 
the Farm Bill will strengthen this agricultural legacy for 
years to come.
    Thank you.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Alonzo can be found on page 
30 in the appendix.]

    Senator Fetterman. Thank you. Now I acknowledge my 
colleague, Senator Boozman.
    Senator Boozman. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking 
Member Braun, for holding this hearing today and the great job 
that you have been doing with this Committee. This is such an 
important subject.
    I want to take a second to introduce Dr. Worthington, and 
it is very much my pleasure to introduce her this morning. She 
is joining us from my home State of Arkansas. We are very, very 
proud of her and her work.
    Dr. Worthington is an Associate Professor for Horticulture 
at the University of Arkansas. She holds a Ph.D. in crop 
science from North Carolina State University, and a master of 
science in horticulture and agronomy and international 
agriculture development from the University of California, 
Davis.
    Earlier this year, Dr. Worthington was part of a team of 26 
scientists from across the world that assembled the first 
complete sequence of the blackberry genome. This achievement 
will be a great help to fruit breeders striving to develop 
improved varieties that are more resistant to disease and 
tolerant of drought, as well as have greater nutrition and 
better taste.
    Dr. Worthington's cutting-edge work is a testament to the 
importance of modern breeding tools to our specialty crop 
sector, in particular. We are grateful for the expertise she 
will share with us today. I am also grateful she brought us a 
sample of some of the work that she was doing, freshly picked, 
as she came up yesterday.
    Thank you very much for being here. I thank all of the 
panel, and I love mushrooms, so I was glad to hear the mushroom 
story.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Fetterman. Mr. Carter, we are now recognizing you 
for five minutes.

    STATEMENT OF NICHOLAS CARTER, OWNER, MUD CREEK FARM; CO-
            FOUNDER, MARKET WAGON, INDIANAPOLIS, IN

    Mr. Carter. Thank you Chairman Fetterman, Ranking Member 
Braun, and members of the Subcommittee. Good morning. Thank you 
for the opportunity to be here today.
    My name is Nick Carter. I testify in front of you today as 
the owner of Mud Creek Farm, I am a farmer, co-founder of 
Market Wagon, and also as a member of Indiana Farm Bureau.
    Mud Creek Farm is, by all measures, a small farm. On just 
20 acres we have 400 laying hens, will finish about 20 head of 
lamb a year, and we do grow a couple of acres of specialty 
crops. That includes about an 800-square-foot greenhouse. Like 
I said, by all measures very small. All of our sales are direct 
to consumer. The majority of it is through an on-farm retail 
stand, and the rest goes through Market Wagon.
    While our farm is small, when 1,500 or more other small 
farms just like us come together in a marketplace like Market 
Wagon, then the real scope and impact of small farming comes 
into focus.
    Market Wagon is a marketplace that is comprise of small, 
diversified farms and food purveyors just like ours, in 15 
States. We delivered nearly a million orders to over 70,000 
customers and making real impact for small family farms all 
across the Midwest and South. I am proud of that work.
    The challenges that Mud Creek Farm and other farms like us 
face are many, but there are a few I wanted to highlight today. 
One is matching supply with demand. If we have extra crop as a 
small farmer, it is not at the scale that any institutional 
buyer could look at. Any supply glut is really ours to deal 
with. That means that we have to match the supply to the 
demand. We have to find a consumer for the crop as it is ready. 
To mitigate that risk, we diversify what we are growing and 
when we grow it--season extenders, high tunnels, things of that 
nature. We need, also, every possible market opportunity so 
that we can market the crop when it is available.
    The second one to highlight is just management of capital. 
When you diversify the farm like we have--and when I say that 
we do both crops and livestock, and that is a key integration 
of those two things in a biome there--there become innumerable 
small implements like transplanters, mulch layers, manure 
spreaders, that each one of them could create tremendous 
efficiencies. The challenge is knowing where to deploy that 
capital and how to prevent over-leveraging so that one bad year 
does not make the farm insolvent.
    Through Indiana Farm Bureau I have had the opportunity to 
advocate for specialty crop producers at the State level. A 
policy action group that I served on helps to craft policy that 
lowered the regulatory hurdles for small farms to sell their 
products to local consumers. Ultimately, that policy turned 
into a bill, and that bill was signed by Governor Eric Holcomb 
last year, and we are already seeing impact in our State, and I 
am proud of that work.
    However, resources for specialty crop growers cannot just 
be at the Statehouse. The farm bill is a perfect opportunity to 
show support for these producers.
    Senators Roger Marshall and Peter Welch recently introduced 
a bill that would allow new ways for small producers to sell 
products across State lines, the DIRECT Act. It is an 
important, long-overdue modernization of the FSIS code that 
gives diversified farms, just like ours, increased access to 
sell direct to consumers, which is very, very important to us. 
I would strongly encourage you to advance that bill this year.
    Programs such as the LFPP and Farm to School are great, but 
these grant programs need to become less onerous to apply for 
and manage in order for them to be accessible to small farmers.
    Schools are the largest institutions that are embedded in 
the very community where diversified farms exist and have 
Federal buying power. In Indiana, we passed legislation that 
would allows schools to buy from local FFA chapters. Congress 
should consider ways to give more flexibility and incentives to 
local schools to purchase locally grown fruits and vegetables 
right from their own community.
    I support a robust crop insurance program, but as 
implemented, the current crop insurance programs are not really 
feasible for diversified farms like ours. The requirement for 
yield history and cost justification just do not align with the 
realities of a small farm growing specialty crops. As I have 
already alluded to, insurance is just one form of risk 
mitigation. The diversification in production that we do at Mud 
Creek Farm, that is our greatest risk mitigation technique.
    As the Committee considers risk mitigation, I would 
encourage you to think beyond the scope of just insurance. The 
scope of solutions needs to include programs that enable 
capital deployment to accomplish diversification. The EQIP 
grant program, for example, can be leveraged to accomplish not 
only conservation goals but also diversification of farm 
activities.
    Capital resources that enable investments that diversify a 
farm's operations would help farms like ours to increase 
production without risk of loss.
    Again, thank you for the opportunity today to represent our 
farm and farms like us, and I look forward to the discussion.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Carter can be found on page 
31 in the appendix.]

    Senator Fetterman. Thank you, Mr. Carter.
    Mr. Wingard, you are now recognized for five minutes.

    STATEMENT OF CHARLES A. WINGARD, VICE PRESIDENT, FIELD 
        OPERATIONS, WALTER P. RAWL AND SONS, PELION, SC

    Mr. Wingard. Thank you, Chairman Fetterman, Ranking Member 
Braun, and members of the Subcommittee.
    My name is Charles Wingard. I am Vice President of Field 
Operations at WP Rawl in Pelion, South Carolina. This is my 
family's fresh vegetable operation, and we specialize in 
southern leafy greens, green onions and leeks, leafy herbs such 
as cilantro and parsley, and sweet corn. We are based in South 
Carolina. We have a market footprint of about 30 States, and we 
have field operations in Florida, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. I 
am here speaking on behalf of myself and International Fresh 
Produce Association.
    Thank you for your support of specialty crops title in the 
farm bill. Our industry represents 44 percent of total U.S. 
farm crop income. However, our support in the current farm bill 
is only $2.1 billion, or another way of putting it is 3.5 
percent of the total crop expenditures in the farm bill. USDA 
says we should make half of our plate fruits and vegetables. 
The farm bill is woefully short in that.
    This Committee and Subcommittee showed great leadership 15 
years ago when this title was introduced. It was developed to 
support industry much more so than any direct payments to 
producers. This ensures that the American consumer is the 
ultimate beneficiary of good public policy, and to date, by 
nearly all accounts, this title has been very successful, due 
to Senator Stabenow and Senator Roberts' leadership in buying 
into this vision 15, 18 years ago.
    That was a great step forward then, but there is more that 
needs to be done now. First, we oppose any attempt to change 
the definition of specialty crops as outlined in the Specialty 
Crop Competitiveness Act of 2004. This definition includes 
fruits, vegetables, tree nuts, dried fruit, and nursery crops. 
Maintaining this definition is essential for consistency and to 
ensure that the unique needs of specialty crops are addressed.
    Second, as you well know, a large portion of the U.S. 
population is overweight and exhibit poor dietary habits. I 
encourage you to find ways to make fresh fruits and vegetables 
more available to SNAP recipients and to expand the fresh fruit 
and vegetable snack program offered to school children that 
need it the most.
    Third, I encourage you to expand the Specialty Crop Block 
Grant Program to at least $100 million annually. This program 
has been very effective at delivering research funding to the 
areas that need it the most, by the people who know it the 
best.
    The Specialty Crop Research Initiative is another very 
successful program for our industry. A great example is the 
Eastern Broccoli Research Project. It was led by Cornell 
University, and the goal was to develop a broccoli variety that 
was suitable to the Eastern U.S. climate. It was deemed 
necessary due to climate change in the Southwest U.S. and 
consumers' demands to buy fresh fruits and vegetables with less 
food miles. Both of these reasons are important to help 
mitigate climate change. Initial collaborators included 
researchers in Maine, New York, Georgia, South Carolina, 
Florida, Virginia, Tennessee, Oregon, along with the USDA and 
four seed companies and seven fresh vegetable operations. I am 
proud to say that I was one of the seven.
    The investment is about $10 million, and today a new 
variety with great promise is being released for commercial 
producers to trial in their operations. This promises to be a 
huge return on investment for the U.S. taxpayer.
    Currently, there are 26 Specialty Crop Research Initiatives 
underway at 14 land grant universities, another good example of 
good government by utilizing the existing infrastructure and 
supporting those researchers that know the issues well. For 
example, Michigan State is leading multi-State research in 
extension efforts to develop modern pollination decisionmaking 
tools for blueberry growers. Penn State is still working to 
slow the spread of the spotted lanternfly and to educate the 
public in that region about the detection of the lanternfly and 
looking for control measures and looking for natural predators. 
Back home, Clemson and N.C. State are developing tools to 
assist growers with identifying, preventing, and managing the 
guava root-knot nematode, a new invasive species to us.
    Very few, if any, of these 26 initiatives would have begun 
without public support through the Specialty Crops Research 
Initiatives. These issues are simply too small to attract any 
private research funding.
    On a personal note, I produce about 700 acres of green 
onions on sandy soils, and there is only one herbicide labeled 
for use at planting, and it is being deregistered as we speak. 
My operation has invested in fixed assets to increase 
production while losing the only tool for preemergent weed 
control that we have. I know that there are options that appear 
to be viable without compromising consumer safety, but none are 
labeled. Green onion production today is dominated by Mexican 
suppliers against whom we have a tremendous freight advantage 
on the East Coast.
    However, if this ongoing dispute between the EPA and the 
herbicide manufacturer continues, then more of our Nation's 
green onion supply will be pushed offshore. This is an example 
of how we need Title 10 to have the tools to be able to 
expedite research and decisions. In other words, we need to cut 
through the red tape.
    In closing, I want to thank you for the opportunity to 
share my thoughts and these recommendations that are crucial to 
the growth, sustainability, and competitiveness of the 
specialty crop industry and of my operation. I ask that you 
consider these priorities and allocate the necessary resources 
to support the diverse needs of our sector so that U.S. growers 
can prosper and share that health and prosperity with American 
consumers and the economy.
    Thank you.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Wingard can be found on page 
35 in the appendix.]

    Senator Fetterman. Thank you, Mr. Wingard.
    Dr. Worthington, you are now recognized for five minutes.

   STATEMENT OF MARGARET LEIGH WORTHINGTON, Ph.D., ASSOCIATE 
PROFESSOR, HORTICULTURE, UNIVERSITY OF ARKANSAS SYSTEM DIVISION 
                OF AGRICULTURE, FAYETTEVILLE, AR

    Dr. Worthington. Thank you. Good morning, Chairman 
Fetterman, Ranking Member Braun, Ranking Member Boozman, and 
members of the Subcommittee.
    I am Dr. Margaret Worthington. I am an Associate Professor 
of Horticulture and Director of the Fruit Breeding Program at 
the University of Arkansas System Division of Agriculture. 
Today I am speaking on behalf of the American Seed Trade 
Association.
    The U.S. has a long history and tradition of 
entrepreneurship, founded on successful systems of technology 
transfer from the public sector to the private sector. Public-
private partnerships are essential in deploying the strength of 
both sectors to develop better-improved varieties and bring 
them to the marketplace. This is especially true for low-
acreage, high-value specialty crops.
    Universities and companies are both using gene editing 
tools in research projects across plant species for a range of 
needed applications benefiting farmers, consumers, and the 
environment. These include disease resistance, drought 
tolerance, nutritional benefits, better taste, and food safety. 
Importantly, this research includes critical application in 
small acreage, high-value specialty crops. These crops face 
unique challenges, and in the past they have not been able to 
take advantage and benefit from modern breeding tools due to 
high costs and associated regulatory burdens.
    Many countries have recently put forth policies that exempt 
or exclude products produced through gene editing from 
additional regulations, with clear and efficient implementation 
of these policies. However, differences in key elements of 
these policies means that the overall utility for plant 
breeding innovation varies greatly across the world. For 
example, EPA's recent final rule on plant-incorporated 
protectants, which was published just less than two weeks ago, 
is causing a great deal of concern in the plant breeding 
community.
    EPA's updated policy is intended to address new and 
evolving breeding methods like gene editing. The goal is to 
establish new ``derived from sexually compatible plant''-based 
exemptions for certain plant incorporated protectants that are 
introduced using tools like gene editing and result in plant 
characteristics that have already been created using 
conventional breeding. However, contrary to the EPA's approach 
to similar products developed using conventional breeding, the 
rule adds bureaucratic layers of red tape for products 
developed using gene editing. This is true even though the 
agency views those products as having no additional safety 
risks compared to those used with conventional breeding.
    At the domestic level, the EPA rule runs counter to 
interagency alignment under the U.S.-coordinated framework. The 
rule is at odds with regulatory streamlining enabled and 
envisioned under USDA's recent revisions to Part 340 
regulations. Internationally, the rule is out of step with a 
growing list of international regulatory authorities that have 
used scienced-based rationale to streamline their policies and 
support commercialization of innovative products. Instead of 
being a leader in innovation, the U.S. is now at risk of losing 
out. Our farmers could lag behind in access to latest improved 
varieties compared to their counterparts in the rest of the 
world.
    These added and unnecessary regulatory burdens will 
increase the cost and time of getting new, improved varieties 
into the hands of our farmers. Especially I want to highlight 
many public sector breeders and small and medium-sized 
enterprises, and especially those working in most small acreage 
specialty crops, will not be able to afford the additional 
cost. All of this is going to force additional consolidation in 
the industry. Investment in future innovation, especially in 
gene editing, will be limited to a handful of very high-acreage 
crops and a handful of large companies.
    Now seed innovation is, of course, not limited to plant 
breeding. Modern tools like biostimulants also offer tremendous 
promise to help mitigate and reduce greenhouse gas emissions, 
conserve and replenish soil health, and improve water quality. 
To fully realize their value it is important that the farm bill 
sets a clear Federal definition as is called for in the Plant 
Biostimulant Act, which was recently introduced in the Senate 
and the House. Special thanks to Senator Braun for leading and 
to Senator Grassley for co-sponsoring that key legislation.
    Finally, when it comes to research, strong investments from 
discovery through development lead to better varieties, and 
this means better outcomes, both short-and long-term, for 
farmers, consumers, and the environment. Robust farm bill 
funding for primary USDA research is essential and desperately 
needed to continue supporting the work of programs like the 
National Plant Germplasm System, the National Clean Plant 
Network, and the Specialty Crops Research Initiative.
    Thanks again for the opportunity to provide testimony on 
behalf of the seed industry and the plant breeding community. 
We look forward to serving as a resource in important 
discussions related to the farm bill as they continue, and 
breeding and seed innovation, in general.
    I will be happy to answer any questions you have.

    [The prepared statement of Dr. Worthington can be found on 
page 40 in the appendix.]

    Senator Fetterman. Thank you, Dr. Worthington.
    Ms. Kobus, you are now recognized for five minutes.

  STATEMENT OF DIANA KOBUS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, PCO CERTIFIED 
                   ORGANIC, SPRING MILLS, PA

    Ms. Kobus. Thank you, Subcommittee Chair Senator Fetterman 
for the invitation, Ranking Member Senator Braun, distinguished 
Committee members, and the staff who make this time possible.
    It is an honor to report to you today on how the farm bill 
can better serve organic specialty crop producers, especially 
through the certification process. I am proud to represent 
Pennsylvania, a State that enjoys supporting for organic from 
the highest level. It is third in the Nation in organic sales 
and is the only State with our own farm bill. It is my deepest 
hope that this is the beginning of many conversations we will 
have about organic farming and the good these farmers are 
bringing to all of us.
    This dedicated group of specialty crop farmers and 
operations, and the research and infrastructure communities 
that serve them, bear a great regulatory burden for voluntarily 
choosing to utilize ecologically sound practices. Their work 
serves as a lesson for all of us. They function with, and as 
part, of nature. It is not an overstatement to say that their 
work is one of few things we can depend on to ensure the health 
and future of humanity, as we all continue to experience the 
increasing effects of excessive extraction from nature, for the 
economic benefits of a few.
    These farmers know that fundamentally, you cannot have 
unlimited growth in a system with finite resources without 
creating harm. Day in and day out they do the hard work it 
takes to have a food supply that supports healthy people, a 
healthy business, and a healthy community. To invest in their 
work and the cost of organic certification is to invest in all 
of our futures. They provide the solid foundation of a 
resilient supply chain, economic regrowth in support of 
community well-being, and services that can ease the many cost 
burdens of healthcare, energy, and environmental remediation. 
We get their feedback every day, and they need more support.
    The farm bill can better serve these organic producers 
through additional funding and making current programs 
permanently funded. A crucial step is to unify and streamline 
programs to help producers find, understand, and follow through 
with accessing them without redundant paperwork requirements.
    Requests for additional program support fall into three 
categories. One, health benefits. Organic practices bring many 
health benefits which are further detailed in the written 
testimony. Achieving them requires transition incentives for 
small farm certification, including direct payments to farmers; 
more funding for the National Organic Program to work with 
certifiers, making the certification process more uniform; and 
including automatic access to programs for farmers; more 
funding for research that will encourage land grant 
universities to take on this work and compete with funding from 
chemical and pharmaceutical companies; making funds for the top 
regional centers permanent, and coordinating the Organic 
Transition Initiative efforts with the newly announced Regional 
Food Centers, streamlining delivery of technical assistance, 
training, and market and work force development.
    Economic benefits. The Organic Hot Spot research from the 
Organic Trade Association and Penn State shows us that organic 
farming does not, as a rule, occur in wealthy communities, but 
it creates more wealth in communities. To support regrowth of 
these local strong communities, organic farmers need changes to 
crop insurance; equitable access to land for beginning and 
BIPOC farmers, and therefore production and distribution of 
food; new and better-connected infrastructure, including 
organic processing and distribution facilities, and coordinated 
market development.
    Three, ecosystem services. Again, more details are given in 
the written testimony, but we need recognition and compensation 
for ecosystem services that these producers are providing, 
including automatic qualification as certified organic 
operations for any climate-smart benefits. We should also make 
every possible effort to fund and connect the work of 
indigenous communities with our efforts, since theirs are the 
original climate-smart practices, and we have much to learn 
from them.
    In conclusion, the organic specialty crop community has an 
outsized regulatory burden for doing right by us all. They also 
have seemingly endless reserves of strength to accomplish the 
most sacred of tasks--figuring out how we can better nourish 
one another. Organic certification costs are only going to rise 
as this sector grows and the need for oversight increases with 
it. When we attempt to make organic food cheaper, we are 
approaching the problem from the wrong direction. We must 
recognize the true cost of healthy food production as well as 
the many externalized costs of conventional production 
practices and invest accordingly via the farm bill.
    Investing in organic research programs at the Agricultural 
Research Service and National Institute for Food and 
Agriculture will help farmers comply with organic regulations 
and thrive in the growing organic marketplace. This investment 
will result in healthier people, more resilient local 
economies, sustainable job creation, and stronger communities.
    I look forward to any opportunity to talk further with your 
offices on these issues. Thank you.

    [The prepared statement of Ms. Kobus can be found on page 
46 in the appendix.]

    Senator Fetterman. Thank you all now. We will now begin our 
five-minute rounds of questions for each member, and I am going 
to begin and start for myself. To everyone that I am going to 
be asking the questions, please recognize that I only have five 
minutes and I would like to get to three different questions, 
so here we go.
    Mr. Alonzo, as Pennsylvania's lieutenant Governor I became 
very familiar with the commonwealth's robust mushroom industry. 
Of course, it is called the ``Mushroom Capital of the World,'' 
right?
    Mr. Alonzo. Yes.
    Senator Fetterman. Yes. It is remarkable when you realize 
that it is about 60 percent comes from that part in 
Pennsylvania. I know there are very specific, in particular, 
challenges that you face. As we consider this year's farm bill 
an insurance for specialty crops, what would you like us to 
know about unique risks that are associated with mushroom 
production?
    Mr. Alonzo. We grow indoors, although most of the process 
starts outdoors. We have all of our byproducts. The compost we 
make is great nutrition for the mushrooms, but that means other 
funguses, other pathogens want to get to that food as well. We 
are unique in that we need some attention for that crop where 
we could have a huge disaster by being so specific in what we 
do. We are unique to any other crop because mushrooms do not 
need sunlight. That, along with, you know, the fact that other 
pathogens really want to get in there.
    Senator Fetterman. Yes. I am going to ask a question that 
is kind of like a little off it. I have been an advocate of 
psychedelics in terms of the magic mushrooms for PTSD and for 
veterans, especially. I always thought it could be--and maybe I 
am wrong--an amazing economic kind of boom for the mushroom, 
for the producer now, and I think it could be a revolution in 
mental health. Are you open to thinking of that, or this 
something that would be like, no, no, no?
    Mr. Alonzo. We are absolutely open. We are entrepreneurs. 
More importantly, we are trying to create healthy food for the 
community, for the U.S. When we look at it, mushroom mycelium 
goes into products like furniture and soaking up oil. The 
nutrition side of mushrooms, we got to research through USDA 
with the Mushroom Council. Anything that ties in--health 
benefits, medical benefits--we are open to looking at. 
Obviously, you have to do it within parameters of being secure, 
safe, and responsible, but we are open to it.
    Senator Fetterman. I think we should have more research and 
microdosing and other issues, I think, is essential, but thank 
you for that.
    Moving over to Ms. Kobus, you know, certifying agents are 
leaders in implementing the USDA organic standards, and I know 
how crucial it is that standards are for certified organic 
producers. How can the USDA be more ensuring that the organic 
regulations are uniformly and consistently applied?
    Ms. Kobus. The USDA can take ownership of developing a 
program and certifying all organic inspectors under a standard 
such as ISO 17024, very similar to the program for food safety 
auditors and the need that arose in that industry. Organic is 
an industry that has really grown up now, and we need to 
professionalize some of these careers in order to maintain and 
grow the industry.
    Senator Fetterman. Thank you. Dr. Worthington, I am 
interested in your research as it relates to a specific issue 
in Pennsylvania, the spotted lanternfly. I relish stomping on 
them, personally. They have a satisfying crunch when they go. 
Anecdotally, they seem like they really are starting to spread 
even more and more in Pennsylvania. A couple of years ago I 
never would have seen one in western Pennsylvania, and now I 
see them much more so, just a few years later.
    Do you have any technologies that you discussed in your 
opening statement protecting crops from this and other pests? 
Do you have any more advice, any kinds of things about it?
    Dr. Worthington. Well, I, in Arkansas, have not had the 
opportunity to crunch a spotted lanternfly yet because we do 
not have them yet in our State. I am aware that they are a 
major problem, especially in the Northeast U.S., and they are 
growing in their range, and they affect a wide range of 
specialty crops, many of which I work on, including grapes and 
peaches. It is something that I have got my eye on, for sure.
    I think any approach to managing spotted lanternfly is 
going to be really interdisciplinary. I imagine you will see 
proposals coming through the Specialty Crops Research 
Initiative to tackle this pest.
    I am not aware of any specific insect resistant genes that 
could be deployed right now for resistance to spotted 
lanternfly. However, I think it is important to make it 
possible to create these technologies in a fast way. You know, 
if we found it in a wild relative now, an insect-resistant gene 
for spotted lanternfly, it could take us 20 to 80 years to get 
it into a leaf plant material, and it could be done much, much 
faster using precise tools like gene editing.
    I encourage the Committee to consider making science-based 
regulations that would enable us to tackle these problems 
quickly.
    Senator Fetterman. Thank you. I now recognize Senator 
Braun.
    Senator Braun. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. By the way, I share 
your passion for mushrooms. I, along with maybe Senator 
Heinrich----
    Senator Boozman. The psychedelic type?
    Senator Braun. Maybe not the psychedelic type. I pursue 
morels, chanterelles, oyster shell mushrooms, hen of the woods, 
chicken of the woods. The variety of mushrooms that are out in 
the wild is amazing.
    Real quick question. Has there been any attempt to 
cultivate them? Because I know they go for about $50 a pound.
    Mr. Alonzo. We have tried to cultivate every single 
variety, and the ones you see in the grocery store are the ones 
we have been successful at. That does not come from a lack of 
effort. We have been able to do truffle, for example, but not 
in a way that we can actually stay in business. We keep trying, 
and research will help.
    Senator Braun. Well, the amazing figure of how many pounds 
you can do per acre, and when I know what they go for in the 
marketplace----
    Mr. Alonzo. We would flood the market.
    Senator Braun [continuing]. it sounds like it would take 
farming to the next level.
    A question is going to be for Dr. Worthington and Mr. 
Carter. I introduce the Plant Biostimulant Act with Senator--
and it is bicameral and bipartisan as well. This bill would 
build on a USDA report from 2018 to help bring biostimulants to 
the marketplace. The products have several potential benefits 
including increased tolerance of abiotic stress, decreased 
nutrient runoff, improved quality and yield. It just looks like 
a host of benefits.
    Mr. Carter, would you weigh in on how, as a specialty crop 
producer, they would benefit maybe you and others that are in 
your particular business?
    Mr. Carter. Absolutely. Thank you for your work on that. 
Biostimulants, as you said, would have a large impact for 
specialty crop producers. I can give you one example. We grow a 
lot of sweet corn. It is a huge consumer of nitrogen. The 
availability of nitrogen in the soil does not always translate 
to the amount that can be taken out because of the biomes going 
on in the soil and some of the chemistry taking place there, 
which I will let Dr. Worthington explain more because she 
probably is more qualified.
    I know Mud Creek Farm is so named because we are bordered 
by Mud Creek, which is an important watershed in our community, 
so nitrogen runoff is something that we have to take very 
seriously. Similarly, specialty crop producers, tomatoes are 
continually seeing more and more impact of something called the 
blossom end rot, which has to do with calcium uptake.
    Increasing the soil biome is key. We handle that on our 
farm. We shovel a lot of stimulant out of the chicken barn, and 
that has increased the soil biome quite a bit. I support the 
work for biostimulants as well.
    Senator Braun. Thank you. Dr. Worthington, about a minute. 
Weigh in on the scientific side.
    Dr. Worthington. Well, I do not work on plant biostimulants 
directly, but my understanding is they could be anything from 
microbial agents like mycorrhiza bacteria, algal extracts, 
organic acids, amino acids, or purified molecules like chitin. 
It is really important to regulate them and have a clear 
definition to be able to make sensible regulations. I know a 
lot of countries around the world have come up with clear 
definitions and have had new regulations passed that have 
enabled more research and development and commercialization of 
these products, making sure that they are effective and helpful 
for consumers.
    Senator Braun. Thank you. Mr. Carter, you have been at the 
leading edge of specialty crops, being an entrepreneur out of 
the gate. I think that is always an interesting combination 
when you are so passionate about something you parlay it into 
something where you can grow a business. You have been at it. 
You have talked to other farmers. What are the three or four 
issues, because when we look at sustainability in agriculture, 
and we talk about what you can do with mushrooms on one acre, 
it is many times less resource intensive, a lot more income per 
acre? What are the three or four issues you hear most that keep 
this niche from becoming larger and more impactful?
    Mr. Carter. Thank you. One of the first ones that comes to 
mind has been regulatory hurdles for small producers to find 
market access. That is one thing I mentioned earlier in the 
work that we did in Indiana. One of the things I am engaged in 
quite a bit in Indiana happens to be interfacing between local 
health departments. The people that are responsible at the 
ground level of enforcing regulation often do not have the 
training, understanding, legal mindset that went into writing 
it. They overreach, and they create more burden than even as in 
the code itself.
    Second is access to processing. We lack a lot of value-
added processing in Indiana on the meat side as well as on the 
produce side, which could create more market access. When we 
think about funding, we think about incentives, we should look 
at bringing processing back into some of the local communities.
    Senator Braun. Thank you.
    Senator Fetterman. I now recognize Senator Booker.
    Senator Booker. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I just 
have to jump in on the mushroom bandwagon here, of all 
different types of mushrooms, I agree, but the data on 
psychedelics is extraordinary in terms of helping our veterans 
with PTSD, the ongoing research done at Hopkins and Columbia. I 
think it is something that we, as a Nation, need to start 
looking at, especially if we are trying to help a lot of folks 
who are coming home, hurt and harmed. I think it is a great 
specialty crop perhaps, and opportunity. I will jump off of 
that before my staff gets mad at me that I am off script.
    Look, the title of the hearing is how the farm bill works 
for specialty crop producers. Unfortunately, it does not work 
well. It really does not. We are a nation, that you so rightly 
said, that our Federal dietary requirements say 50 percent of 
our diet should be specialty crops, but less than 10 percent of 
the farm ag subsidies go to farmers who grow fruits and 
vegetables. It is a stunning reality. If you are a small farmer 
growing specialty crops, the farm bill does even less to really 
help you. It is a stunning reality.
    In fact, 93 percent of small farmers do not get crop 
insurance. Only seven percent take advantage of it. This is 
really stunning, especially when the majority of our farmers in 
America are small farmers. What they do for our local food 
systems, what they do for rural communities, the added benefit 
that our small family farmers are doing in America are 
incredible. We are a government that has really established 
help and support for large commodity crops and making it very 
hard for the food that we eat, as a country, to be produced.
    Really quickly, Ms. Kobus, as you know, many organic 
farmers operate these small acreage farms. Yesterday I 
introduced a bill to establish an Office of Small Farms at 
USDA, which would directly serve small farmers with microgrants 
and technical assistance and would do a review of all USDA 
programs to make sure that they are accessible and beneficial 
to these small farmers. Can you explain really quickly the 
impact this type of USDA office would have for the farmers that 
you work with?
    Ms. Kobus. Absolutely. It would have huge impact. I support 
that idea 100 percent. It would give them a voice and get them 
a short way to reach help and reach assistance with the 
programs that are out there. A lot of the programs are not 
being taken advantage of because when you run a small farm, you 
know, farmers want to farm. They do not want to do paperwork, 
not to mention redundant paperwork. It would be huge in giving 
them the support they need to walk through what actually can 
help their farm and get it moving.
    Senator Booker. Yes. The bureaucracy that a small farmer 
has to go through, who is not equipped to do it, is stunning. 
One of the things, when I visited with farmers, organic farmers 
around New Jersey, I just did not know the whole crop insurance 
system is not built for small farmers. The people who do this 
get commissions that are based on the size of the insurance 
policy premium. It is kind of a warped, in my opinion, 
incentive. These incentives focus agents on writing policies 
with the big farms and disincentivize them from helping the 
majority of the farmers in America who are small farmers.
    I believe in this farm bill we need to change this 
structure so crop insurance agents' commissions are based on 
the complexity of the policy, not the policy size, which would 
incentivize the agents to write a lot more crop insurance 
policies for small specialty crops.
    Would this type of change be beneficial to the organic 
farmers that you work with?
    Ms. Kobus. Yes, absolutely. Additionally, technical 
assistance to educate those insurance agents would be 
additionally helpful, and data collection about the value of 
these specialty crops, if we could get the land grant 
institutions compiling research on the value it would 
definitely help with the crop insurance issue.
    Senator Booker. I really appreciate that. Then just last, 
Mr. Carter, you state in your testimony that USDA should use 
its purchasing power within the fresh fruits and vegetables 
program to buy locally grown fruits and vegetables. We have 
incredible power within the Federal Government, but we are not 
using it to help to sustain, again, the food that America eats, 
not the ones that we put into the larger global commodities 
market or put into feed. This is folks who are growing the 
foods, that are keeping America healthy at a time that, again, 
Mr. Wingard, you pointed out. We are a nation that is exploding 
in diet-related diseases caused by these hyper-processed foods. 
It is stunning to me the cost taxpayers are paying right now. 
About 1 out of every 3 dollars that our Federal Government 
spends is being spent on health care. The overall majority of 
that is for preventable diet-related diseases.
    Can you just talk about the impact it would have on local 
food systems, on local communities, on rural communities, on 
farms like yours if the USDA substantially scaled up local 
procurement?
    Mr. Carter. Yes. Thank you. Like I said, the schools are 
embedded in the communities where the food is grown, and like I 
mentioned, it is highly seasonal. We could scale up our 
production if we knew that there was an access to sell surplus. 
I would put substantially more tomatoes in, cucumbers, and the 
like if I knew that as I had surplus, as I had more supply than 
my own small retail stand could move, that there was an 
institutional buyer ready, and incentivized, to take that crop.
    Senator Booker. Mr. Wingard, last--and I know I said two 
``lastlys''--but the programs like SNAP you mentioned, I have 
seen the incredible success of the GusNIP program, for example, 
drawing people toward local farming systems. It is an 
incredible purchasing power that we are using. Unfortunately, 
what I see often SNAP dollars used for without those incentives 
is the very foods that often lead us to explosions of diabetes, 
explosions of diet-related diseases.
    Is that a way by trying to do incentives within our 
existing programs like GusNIP to get more of that governmental 
purchasing power toward supporting those who produce healthy 
foods?
    Mr. Wingard. Yes, sir, and you have got to realize, people 
that are on SNAP are the people who need it, and they do not 
have a lot of purchasing power when they go into the grocery 
story. Our crops a lot of times are the more expensive crop or 
the more expensive products in the store, so they are going to 
feed more mouths with less money by buying those items than 
buying our items.
    Any kind of way we can get those SNAP recipients 
incentivized to buy fresh fruits and vegetables will be good 
because it will start that transition in their lives to a 
healthier diet, to a healthier lifestyle, and less medical 
costs down the road. The fresh fruit and vegetable SNAP program 
is a great, great example of this.
    Senator Booker. Mr. Wingard, you are a kind, gentle man. I 
am going to be your anger translator here for a second. It is 
not only the free market that is making organic foods more 
expensive. When my kids walk into a bodega, they are paying 
less for a Twinkie product than an apple because we subsidize 
everything in the Twinkie and not the fresh fruits or 
vegetables. It is not like you are working in a free market. 
You are working in a market that is stacked against the crop 
commodities and the crops you are growing.
    I will be your anger translator any time you want, sir.
    Mr. Wingard. Based on what you just said, and I heard the 
argument awhile back, we have subsidized obesity.
    Senator Booker. Yes, we have, and not just obesity. We pay 
twice. We subsidize the things that make us obese, and then we 
subsidize the Medicaid and Medicare that treats everybody. We 
are a government that is digging a deeper and deeper hole, that 
is not only racking up costs--if you look at the Medicare and 
Medicaid costs over 20 years projected, we will not be able to 
afford anything in government. We are not only digging a deeper 
and deeper hole, but we are also adding to sickness and misery 
in our society. It is ridiculous.
    All right. Mr. Chairman, thank you.
    Senator Fetterman. Quite reasonable, Senator Booker. And 
now I am pleased to introduce our Chairwoman, Senator Stabenow.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Well, thank you. I think Senator 
Boozman was up next. I do not want to--Senator Boozman, were 
you up next?
    Senator Boozman. I think it was Senator Tuberville.
    Senator Tuberville. Well, I am learning a lot about 
mushrooms--
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Oh, good.
    [Laughter.]
    Chairwoman Stabenow. This is good. We grow those too. Well, 
and I apologize for coming in late. Thank you.
    Senator Fetterman. You should go next.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Yes. Thank you. I just actually came 
from the Senate Budget Committee that was also focused on 
agriculture and the costs of the climate crisis, and we had 
really great farmers there testifying about crop insurance, the 
importance of crop insurance, and the importance of 
conservation and the efforts that they feel are helping them 
mitigate the risk. It was a very interesting panel.
    I want to thank you and Senator Braun for holding this 
meeting, and we are an incredibly diverse State in Michigan in 
terms of agriculturally. We are second only to California in 
the number of different kinds of crops that we grow. Even 
though dairy is No. 1, the bulk of what we do is specialty 
crops. I appreciate all of your apples and asparagus and 
blueberries, and our world-famous tart cherries. You name it, 
farmers in Michigan grow it.
    Supporting specialty crop growers has been a priority of 
mine since, frankly--I was in the U.S. House, working on the 
Agriculture Committee, and then was able to get the first-ever 
horticulture title to the 2008 Farm Bill. Mr. Chairman, at the 
time they said, ``You do not add new titles to the farm bill. 
That is not possible.'' Because of an awful lot of hard work of 
a lot of people, we defied the odds, and we now have a title 
for specialty crops, which are almost half the cash receipts 
from the country. It is so important, as Senator Booker was 
talking about, in multiple ways, and certainly starting with 
our health and well-being. So 15 years later, here we are, 
continuing the benefit and more that we can do together, for 
sure.
    Mr. Wingard, I wanted to start with you. First of all, I 
understand that you are now operating in Michigan, so good 
choice, before coming before the Committee. This was very good. 
Welcome to Michigan. I wondered if you could speak more--you 
know, one of the things that we did when we put the 
horticulture title in place was to look, with all the diversity 
of specialty crops, rather than our row crops and so on, and 
the way we were handling support for them, we set up to the 
Specialty Crop Block Grant Program. All these years later, the 
program has invested about $1 billion in specialty crops. We 
certainly have seen this in Michigan, the different grower 
groups that have been applying.
    How have these sustained investments from Congress directly 
benefited specialty crop growers, in your mind, and I welcome 
any other thoughts on what else we should be doing.
    Mr. Wingard. Well, I am very familiar with the Specialty 
Crop Block Grant Program, and I do love Michigan. I am going to 
harvest, in one week, my first harvest in Michigan.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Wonderful.
    Mr. Wingard. I am in the Athens area, and it has been a 
very pleasant experience thus far. Everything looks really good 
up there. It looks so good, I am scared of what is coming 
around the corner. I am very familiar with the Specialty Crop 
Block Grant Program. It is used in all States, South Carolina 
for sure. What it does--and I have got some examples here--we 
had a leaf blight on mustard and turnip greens about 15, 20 
years ago, and a lot of funding came through Specialty Crop 
Block Grant Program to work on new varieties for that. Clemson 
was the only public university to work on that, and along with 
USDA, a tremendous collaboration between those two 
organizations. Now we have two varieties of turnip greens.
    They started with 1,000 different species of mustard and 
turnip greens, collected from around the world. They came to my 
farm and planted 750 of them, maybe 10-foot-long rows on about 
two acres. It looked like a bunch of weeds to me. They found 1 
species out of 1,000 that had resistance. Through traditional 
breeding methods it took them about 12, 15 years to get that 
resistance into a turnip green and a mustard green that had 
desirable qualities for the market. We have two now, Charleston 
Southern and Carolina Southern, I think.
    A lot of that funding came through the Specialty Crop Block 
Grant Program. The overarching thing there is what that block 
grant program does is it sends the money from Washington to 
State capitals and then lets the State capitals divvy up the 
money to the research where it needs to go, because the people 
in the State Departments of Agriculture know what the needs 
are. They are much closer to the problems, much closer to the 
researchers, and the money is better spent doing it that way 
than trying to be directed out of Washington to go here, there, 
and yonder.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you very much. I agree.
    Mr. Carter, I want to talk a little bit about local food 
systems. I am a very strong supporter of local food systems. 
Your startup, Market Wagon, is working in communities like 
Detroit and Grand Rapids to connect Michiganders to local 
vendors--I am very excited about that--including many who are 
selling, of course, fresh fruits and vegetables.
    The COVID-19 pandemic really shook the ag supply chains, as 
we all know. How did the pandemic affect demand for locally 
produced foods across your network, and how do thriving local 
markets like those in Grand Rapids and Detroit help expand 
business opportunity for small and diversified farmers?
    Mr. Carter. Thank you, Senator. Yes, you are right. The 
pandemic had a big impact on our operation, mainly because we 
are e-commerce with delivery, so obviously everybody needs to 
stay home and take delivery of food. There was a large spike on 
the demand side of that marketplace.
    On the supply side, which is what we are here to talk 
about, the producers, suddenly their restaurants that they sell 
to, farmers markets, most of the markets that small producers 
can sell in were shut down. The resilience of small, 
diversified farms is that they are agile, so they were able to 
immediately--and by immediately I mean in a matter of a week--
divert inventory, divert production from what was going into 
food service and to farmers markets or other retail to Market 
Wagon. We grew 600 percent in four weeks. It was a matter of 
scale that can almost break a company. It is only because we 
were able to match the supply with the demand as that was 
growing, growing broader just in terms of what a marketplace 
like this and local foods mean.
    You know, the average age of a farmer has gone up by a year 
almost every year. If you are a statistician, that is not good 
for new people coming into the industry. I am a fourth-
generation farmer, and I would have left the farm. I would have 
been a part of that statistic. I was 18. There was no future in 
the small farm at that time.
    What we are seeing now, through creating market access--
Market Wagon and other similar enterprises--is the ability for 
someone in my generation or younger to say, ``Dad's got 2,000 
acres of corn and soy,'' or whatever, large-scale ag, ``and 
there is not enough income there for me to join that 
enterprise. I can take these three over here and I can make 
specialty crops and make a living on it.'' And that is amazing.
    We are seeing first-generation farmers, we are seeing next-
generation farmers, and we are bringing people into this 
industry, creating jobs, creating entrepreneurship, and I am 
really excited about that.
    Chairwoman Stabenow. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I just wanted to underscore what you just said, because 
when we think of markets in the Agriculture Committee, 
traditionally over the years we have thought of trade, and 
certainly we feed the world, American farmers, and trade is 
really important. There are more markets now that we are 
talking about, and we have farmers, a lot of younger farmers, 
that are making a good living out of local and regional markets 
right here. It is exciting because we have got more opportunity 
to have money go back to rural towns and be able to strengthen 
rural communities by having different kinds of markets, which I 
think bodes well.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Fetterman. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes 
Senator Tuberville.
    Senator Tuberville. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    You know, being a former college football coach I learn a 
lot in these hearings--mushrooms, spotted lanternflies--but 
hey, turnip greens are right up my alley, Mr. Wingard, and 
collards. You did not bring that up, and I am kind of 
disappointed, but that is all right.
    You know, in Alabama, my home State, we have 3,500 
specialty crop farms and 60,000 acres, and growing, and 
hopefully we will continue to grow. Mr. Carter, my concern is 
we are losing our generations of farmers. We are selling out 
because we cannot make any money. Some can and some cannot. I 
think specialty crops are going to be a boon for us, and we 
talked about the SNAP program and farmers markets and all those 
things, where people can actually make money with what they do.
    In this farm bill we have got to prioritize what we are 
doing. Safeguards, you know, for the small farmer, not just the 
big farmer. We have got to have competitive markets.
    Mr. Wingard, I want to ask you about this. In Alabama, we 
have 200 farms that utilize H-2A programs, temporary and 
seasonal workers, and if we did not have that, they could not 
survive. Now we have started this Adverse Effect Wage Rate 
program that determines wages for the H-2A, and we are going 
up, what, 14 percent this year, and I think it is going to cost 
us $8 to $10 million to our farmers. Give me your thoughts on 
that.
    Mr. Wingard. Okay. Well, first of all it is going to cost 
you more than $8 or $10 million.
    Senator Tuberville. I am just talking about for our State.
    Mr. Wingard. I am talking about for your State too. It will 
be a higher cost than that.
    Senator Tuberville. Do not hurt my feelings now.
    Mr. Wingard. Well, you should know, first of all----
    Senator Tuberville. Our farmers listening to this, by the 
way.
    Mr. Wingard. Collards is my biggest crop. I did not mention 
that. I am a Tiger letterman. My blood runs orange. I was on 
the football team at Clemson.
    Senator Tuberville. Oh, okay.
    Mr. Wingard. I was just a water boy.
    Senator Tuberville. Well, you took everything from us at 
Auburn, you know, the mascot and everything. But go ahead.
    Mr. Wingard. Yes, sir. Anyway, the H-2A is a serious 
concern to us. It is literally an obstacle. One of the 
regulatory burdens you have heard about here today, our H-2A 
wage rate in South Carolina is right at $15 an hour. We got the 
14 percent pay raise too, and Pennsylvania, I think, is $17, 
and Michigan is $17, $18.
    We do not know, as producers, how it is set. We do not know 
what it is until about maybe the 5th or 10th of December, and 
it goes into effect January 1st. If we bring workers in on 
November 1st for 10 months, and we sign a contract, everybody 
agrees to the contract, and then on January 1st, the wage goes 
up, so the contract really does not apply to the wages. It is 
becoming a disincentive for farmers to try to do it the right 
way as it speaks to labor.
    My business model, in my business, labor is about 30, 35 
percent of our total expenses, so that 15 percent wage rate we 
took in December, 5 percent fell straight to the bottom line. 
When you have long-term contracts such as larger growers do, 
buyers do not really care about what our wages did or what our 
costs did. We agreed to the contract, and they expect us to 
deliver at that price. Now we have to cut costs somewhere else.
    Senator Tuberville. What is the answer?
    Mr. Wingard. The answer is fixing the labor program, fixing 
the H-2A, having some serious reforms in the H-2A program.
    Senator Tuberville. Has anybody else got a thought on that, 
the H-2A? Anybody? Nobody. All right. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Carter, the adjusted gross income and other forms of 
means testing disproportionately impact specialty crop 
producers from participating in certain USDA disaster programs, 
like the Noninsured Crop Disaster Assistance, Tree Assistance 
Program (TAP). However, the Emergency Relief Program does not 
have a cap on AGI, allowing specialty crop producers 
opportunities for large payments to compensate for their 
losses.
    What are your thoughts on instituting a waiver of the AGI 
means test for the NAP and the TAP disaster programs which 
operations derive at least 75 percent of their income from 
farming and forestry? What impact would that have on family 
farms and specialty crop growers?
    Mr. Carter. Generally, I think that having the AGI limits 
on any of these benefits seems counterproductive. I am not 
personally knowledgeable. I do not have any direct experience 
in that situation, but it seems that taking the most 
profitable, which typically, in a free market enterprise, means 
the most successful and the best at what they do, and telling 
them that they are not eligible to have risk mitigation does 
not stand to reason to me.
    Senator Tuberville. Does anybody want to comment? Anybody 
else?
    Mr. Wingard. I agree with your thoughts, and I think that 
the AGI means testing is punishing those who did the best, 
those who took the risk, grew, reinvested in their company. I 
think the AGI means testing punishes them.
    Senator Tuberville. I have got one more question. Mr. 
Wingard or Mr. Carter, or anybody, our Southeast fruit and 
vegetable growers are impacted by cheap imports from countries 
that do not adhere to our Nation's environmental and labor 
laws. Neither the USMCA or the International Trade Commission 
has resolved these issues. Growers continue to seek Mexican and 
South American imports hit grocery stores at the same time as 
U.S. harvest, decreasing the price our farmers receive for 
their products. Should this be addressed in the farm bill, and 
any recommendations? Anybody?
    Mr. Wingard. So, Coach, the U.S. domestic producers have 
high costs to produce our food because of regulations and high 
standards, and those costs are what we invest in our people, 
our process, and our facilities, in order to achieve those 
standards and to meet the regulations. If the farm bill wants 
to address that, and I think that is fine to do, then we need 
tools like market development, we need money for research and 
technology, we need access to better crop enhancement materials 
so we can spend $25 an acre on weed control with an effective 
herbicide instead of $225 or $325 an acre using hand-pulling, 
we call that pulling.
    You know, we need access to robotics. We need research on 
robotics, robotic weed control, robotic weeders, robotic 
transplanters, which is what we are looking at, and we need 
varieties that are improved varieties that have better disease 
resistance, drought resistance, pest resistance, and other ways 
that can help us offset the cost of our production.
    Senator Tuberville. Basically, you need the tools to be 
able to compete.
    Mr. Wingard. We need more tools in the toolbox, yes, sir, 
more plays in the playbook.
    Ms. Kobus. The organic demand right now in the United 
States far exceeds the supply we are able to put into it 
domestically, so we would love to get those farmers a higher 
premium for the crops that they are growing by transitioning 
them to organic, and that could be a huge boost to those local 
communities, and it is a sustainable way to build those 
communities. The demand is definitely there.
    Senator Tuberville. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Fetterman. The Chair now recognizes Senator 
Boozman.
    Senator Boozman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We are not used 
to witnesses and Senators trash talking each other during the 
hearing.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Boozman. Dr. Worthington, thank you for your 
testimony and thank you for the work that you are doing on 
agriculture biotechnology. Regulatory certainty is of paramount 
importance. For decades now, the Federal Government at large 
has attempted to harmonize and modernize its biotechnology 
approval process which would pull this regulatory system into 
the 21st century and provide the transparency and 
predictability developers, farmers, and consumers need. These 
principles are also a key to American innovation to U.S. 
agricultural production and to addressing global environmental 
challenges. The list goes on and on. The Department of 
Agriculture made great progress in this endeavor and should be 
commended.
    Unfortunately, last week the EPA released a final rule on 
plant-incorporated protectants, commonly known as PIPs, that 
does the opposite. This rule will frustrate U.S. innovation, 
drive companies to export their staff, investments, and 
technologies to our international competitors and create market 
barriers that only the largest multinational corporations can 
overcome. In short, EPA's PIP rule puts American farmers and 
consumers last. More significant, it removes another tool from 
the toolbox that specialty crop producers, all producers, so 
desperately need.
    Dr. Worthington, you work in the field every day. What 
impact will EPA's rule on have on U.S. agriculture and U.S. 
innovation?
    Dr. Worthington. Yes. I think it is going to disincentivize 
innovation, and I think it is going to have a disproportionate 
impact on specialty crops and on small and medium-sized 
enterprises and public sector investment. You know, there has 
been so much investment through farm bill-sponsored programs, 
in research, and in plant breeding. You know, we find all these 
disease resistance genes. We do all this work. What this is 
going to do is make it more difficult to commercialize those 
products.
    I think that ultimately you are going to see more 
consolidation in the industry with this regulation, and the 
innovation will be on a few large crops, by a few very large 
companies, like you have seen with older transgenic 
technologies, despite the fact that we are dealing with a very, 
very different technology here, with, you know, traits, genes 
that are from sexually compatible species that have already 
been produced using conventional plant breeding.
    I would just advocate for a more product-rather than 
process-based regulatory framework. I want to highlight that 
the new EPA rule is a setback for interagency alignment. It is 
in direct conflict with the USDA's recent revisions to its Part 
340 regulations, and it is also out of step with a lot of other 
countries, including our No. 1 seed-trading partner, Canada, 
which has a very progressive, science-based policy on 
regulation of these plant-incorporated protectants that are 
existing within sexually compatible species.
    Senator Boozman. Good. Thank you very much.
    It is interesting, Madam Chair, one of the things that we 
have discussed at length, because it has come up through these 
subcommittee hearings as we talk to producers, and again, both 
of us are out and about the country doing listening sessions, 
is the amount of paperwork that you have to endure. It impacts 
specialty crops much more than the other commodities, in the 
sense that they are used to doing it. You know, they have just 
kind of grown up in this.
    The other problem is that for conservation programs and 
things like that it is easier to get a larger grant than it is 
a small grant, you know, where the small grant can make every 
bit as much difference in what you are trying to achieve.
    You know, the way you can help us is put that at the top of 
your list. It is interesting--Several of the witnesses talked 
about that already, you know, brought that forward, but this is 
something that is not going to cost money. This is going to 
save money. This is going to make you so much more productive. 
It will level the playing field, okay. If you have a decent 
education you ought to be able to fill the form out.
    Then the other problem that we have got is not getting it 
done in a timely fashion. That is the other problem is us 
having to wait on these things.
    Thank you for mentioning it, and let's really be unified in 
that. That is something that I just do not think there is any 
excuse for. You know, those are things that we can fix. We 
appreciate your testimony, and we are going to work really hard 
to see how we can be helpful in the next farm bill. Like I say, 
thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for holding the hearing.
    Senator Fetterman. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes 
Senator Warnock.
    Senator Warnock. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think all might be 
aware that Georgia is known as the Peach State, but climate 
change is threatening to put our State fruit at serious risk. 
This year, Georgia experienced a very mild winter, and then we 
got a late freeze, and this combination, kind of a one-two 
punch, wreaked havoc on our peaches. Experts from the 
University of Georgia estimate that 90 percent of Georgia's 
peach crop failed, 90 percent.
    Mr. Wingard, I know that South Carolina and some of the 
other Southeastern States where you work grow a lot of peaches 
and other specialty crops similar to Georgia. Can you describe 
how the changing climate has affected production in the 
Southeastern United States?
    Mr. Wingard. Thank you, Senator. I do not do any peaches. I 
am a leafy greens guy. I will tell you what I know, and it is 
not much. They are struggling with climate change. They are 
struggling with different patterns of weather, and we too have 
seen a significant decrease in peaches. I think our number is 
in the 60, 70 percent decrease or loss.
    I think that can be addressed a little bit through some 
research. It is a long process to fix because peach trees are 
about three or four years old before you ever pick a peach. 
There is a lot of research going on, on peaches. Dr. 
Worthington and I were discussing it before the hearing. I 
think peaches, and other crops that are affected by climate 
change, can be bred to adapt to a new climate.
    I spoke earlier in my oral comments about the East Coast 
Broccoli Initiative, and that is essentially what that was 
about, is to get broccoli varieties bred that are adapted to 
the climate in the Eastern U.S. as opposed to the Southwestern 
U.S. I think research is the answer to that.
    Senator Warnock. We will only see continued climate change. 
That is not going away, sadly. It will continue to cause 
uncertainty for growers, so research is important. Also as we 
get the research we have got to be nimble in our policy 
approach, because the research is not going to help us much if 
we are not able to apply it to our practices.
    In 2021, Georgia produced 130 million pounds of peaches 
valued at $85 million. When these crops fail at this large of a 
scale that affects the producer, but we need to remember that 
the local economy also takes a hit. As we reauthorize the farm 
bill, do you or anyone else on the panel that would like to 
speak to this, do you agree that our crop insurance programs 
need to be updated to better reflect the realities of climate 
change and avoid ad hoc disaster programs?
    Ms. Kobus. Yes. I think it is really important to recognize 
that if we are not talking about the root causes of climate 
change, and industrial agriculture being second as the root 
cause of climate change, we are doing a disservice to the 
discussion here today. Technology is going to help us continue 
to adapt, but we can only adapt so far. You know, there is a 
thin layer of the atmosphere and a thin layer of the soil that 
provides life to us humans on the planet, and we really need to 
engage in the practices to mitigate the effects of industrial 
agriculture and really transform the food system for all of our 
benefit.
    Senator Warnock. We need to give our growers the tools in 
order to manage the actual risks that they are facing, which 
has implications not only for them but for our economy.
    When I meet with Georgia growers, one of the issues they 
consistently bring up are the lack of options they have for 
managing risk, and one program they have come to rely on is the 
Tree Assistance Program. TAP allows producers to replant 
bushes, trees, or vines that produce an annual crop loss due to 
natural disasters. Currently the program does not allow 
producers to replace their damaged plants with improved 
varieties that are more resilient to disease or environmental 
changes and may even provide higher yields.
    Mr. Wingard, can you describe the challenges that this 
creates for producers, and is this something you think we 
should address in the farm bill, or anyone on the panel?
    Mr. Wingard. Well, I am not a peach farmer and I do not do 
any trees, but I do think it makes sense that if you have trees 
or vines or bushes that are damaged and you have more suitable 
or improved varieties to replace them with, yes, it makes sense 
to replace them, and it makes sense----
    Senator Warnock. And not being forced to replant the trees 
that you know are not going to work.
    Mr. Wingard. That is correct. In my opinion, you should do 
it a little bit along the way, so you do not have to wait and 
do a large part of it at one time.
    Senator Warnock. Thank you. I am out of time, but I look 
forward to exploring ways we can make these kinds of technical 
changes in the farm bill that will improve the prospects of 
growers and our economy. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
    Senator Fetterman. The Chair now recognizes the 
distinguished gentleman from Vermont.
    Senator Welch. I thank the distinguished Chairman from 
Pennsylvania and thank our witnesses. We love this Agriculture 
Committee. We all want to do the best we can, and you are 
really being helpful, and I appreciate it.
    Just one observation. I kind of wonder why we use the term 
``specialty crops'' when we are really talking about pretty 
healthy food, and healthy food is really important. I just want 
to thank all of you for that. Mr. Chairman, at some point I 
think we might want to consider a new name for ``specialty,'' 
because this is tremendous.
    One of the things that I think we are struggling with here 
on this Committee is to actually put more of an emphasis on the 
nutritional benefits of this healthy food. In the farm bill in 
2018, we authorized $61.5 billion for the commodity crops, and 
they are important. When you compare that to $2 million for the 
horticultural crops, it would suggest that one element is 
getting pretty generous treatment and another element is being 
ignored, when, in fact, the contradiction is that all of these 
healthy foods are so good for us. I am for having a much 
greater emphasis on trying to get these programs more fully 
supported.
    I will start with you, Ms. Kobus. Just outline what the 
benefits of local--I am going to continue using the term 
``specialty crops'' but I do not like it, okay--what do they 
provide to our communities?
    Ms. Kobus. Oh gosh, well, so many things in addition to 
that local, sustainable economy, and the healthier food, less 
food miles that food is traveling. You know, the bigger a farm 
is, the more challenges we face. To transition more small 
specialty crop growers to organic, there are definitely 
challenges in doing that, but on the other side the health 
benefits. We know that it produces healthier food. We know it 
produces healthier soil.
    Senator Welch. You know, let me go on that point. One of 
the extraordinary contributions agriculture has to our 
communities is that the farmers are the custodians of the open 
landscape. One of the barriers to entry is it is so expensive. 
My sense is that for younger farmers, for folks in 
underrepresented communities, these smaller farms are an access 
point of entry if we can find ways that they can get the 
research that should back them up, the markets that they need, 
and that they are local.
    I introduced the Opportunities in Organic Act that would, 
among other things, increase the cost-share payments for some 
of our underrepresented groups trying to get into farming. I 
will ask you again. Given your experience with the organic 
certification process, what do you see as the greatest barriers 
of entry to our small and mid-sized agricultural producers to 
transition to organic?
    Ms. Kobus. Yes. Definitely access to land is a big one, and 
those initial costs of certifying land that has not yet been 
certified. There are big challenges in that three-year period 
where you take an acre from convention land to certified 
organic. That act, in particular. It builds on a lot of the 
Transition to Organic Partnership Program work that we are 
starting out here in the organic community, but it really fills 
in the holes for a lot of the practical challenges.
    Senator Welch. Thank you. I am going to ask Dr. 
Worthington, too, to maybe comment on that. I do want to ask 
you about this, but I want to followup at some later time about 
your comment about the regulatory process in Canada versus the 
U.S. I came in at the tail end of that.
    Just the question I asked Ms. Kobus, could you address 
that?
    Dr. Worthington. Well, I have had a little bit of 
experience with the organic industry. I was funded by the 
Organic Research and Extension Initiative for my Ph.D. research 
that got me here today, I guess. I think her comments are much 
better than mine about the barriers to entry for organic 
growers. I have not worked in the certification sphere before.
    Senator Welch. All right. Okay, thank you. I see that my 
time is up, but I want to thank each of you for doing such 
important work on behalf of agriculture and the specialty 
crops. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Fetterman. Thank you. Sincerely, thank you for 
coming and doing all the traveling from a long distance to 
share your experiences and expertise today. I sincerely can say 
that I learned from you today. The input from experts like you 
at these hearings are crucial to the work that we do as we 
write the bill. We want to remind that this farm bill is really 
all about farmers, all farmers.
    We heard a lot today from witnesses of the need to support 
specialty crop producers and certified organic produce. As the 
farm bill takes shape over the coming weeks and months I will 
be working closely with colleagues on both sides of this office 
to do just that.
    Also thank you again to our witnesses and my colleagues for 
being here. I look forward to making this bill work for all 
farmers, and you have really enriched the farm bill for coming 
today.
    The record will remain open for five business days, and now 
this hearing is adjourned.

    [Whereupon, at 11:32 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

      
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                              June 7, 2023

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                              June 7, 2023

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