[Senate Hearing 118-358]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 118-358
OVERSIGHT OF THE SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON RULES AND ADMINISTRATION
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
TUESDAY, JUNE 18, 2024
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Rules and Administration
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available on http://www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
56-072 WASHINGTON : 2024
COMMITTEE ON RULES AND ADMINISTRATION
SECOND SESSION
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota, Chairwoman
CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York DEB FISCHER, Nebraska
MARK R. WARNER, Virginia MITCH McCONNELL, Kentucky
JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon TED CRUZ, Texas
ALEX PADILLA, California SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West
JON OSSOFF, Georgia Virginia
MICHAEL F. BENNET, Colorado ROGER WICKER, Mississippi
PETER WELCH, Vermont CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
LAPHONZA R. BUTLER, California BILL HAGERTY, Tennessee
KATIE BOYD BRITT, Alabama
Elizabeth Farrar, Staff Director
Jackie Barber, Republican Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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Pages
Opening Statement of:
Hon. Amy Klobuchar, Chairwoman, a United States Senator from the
State of Minnesota............................................. 1
Hon. Deb Fischer, a United States Senator from the State of
Nebraska....................................................... 3
Lonnie G. Bunch III, Secretary, Smithsonian Institution,
Washington, DC................................................. 4
Prepared Statement of:
Lonnie G. Bunch III, Secretary, Smithsonian Institution,
Washington, DC................................................. 22
Questions Submitted for the Record:
Hon. Amy Klobuchar, Chairwoman, a United States Senator from the
State of Minnesota to Lonnie G. Bunch III, Secretary,
Smithsonian Institution, Washington, DC........................ 25
Hon. Deb Fischer, a United States Senator from the State of
Nebraska to Lonnie G. Bunch III, Secretary, Smithsonian
Institution, Washington, DC.................................... 27
OVERSIGHT OF THE SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION
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TUESDAY, JUNE 18, 2024
United States Senate
Committee on Rules and Administration
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:45 p.m., in
Room 301, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Amy Klobuchar,
Chairwoman of the Committee, presiding.
Present: Senators Klobuchar, Fischer, Warner, Butler, and
Britt.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HONORABLE AMY KLOBUCHAR,
CHAIRWOMAN, A UNITED STATES SENATOR FROM
THE STATE OF MINNESOTA
Chairwoman Klobuchar. Good afternoon. I call to order this
hearing of the Rules Committee on Oversight of the Smithsonian.
I would like to thank Ranking Member Fischer and our colleagues
for being here, as well as Secretary of the Smithsonian, Lonnie
Bunch.
I will note that I was saying to Deb that we actually got
bling from you guys. Like, we never get anything here from the
Rules Committee and this is very cool--your pocket guide to the
Smithsonian. We welcome you once again to the Committee,
Secretary. I know that you planned the announcement of the
return of the pandas to coincide with our hearing, so thank
you.
Today's hearing is an opportunity to discuss the ongoing
priorities and what is next for the Smithsonian as it works to
maintain and share with the public its vast collection of
treasures, including some that you have brought for us today,
including from a Minnesota perspective.
Everyone should go over and see these items when we are
done here. A comic book about Minnesota's own Hubert Humphrey.
These are just part of the institution's nearly 157 million
artifacts, in addition to the 2.25 million volumes in its 21
research libraries. Its collection is just part of what makes
the Smithsonian a global leader.
In fact, since its founding in 1846, the Smithsonian has
grown to become the world's largest museum, education, and
research complex, and its researchers are tackling cutting edge
questions at the frontiers of science.
Earlier this year, Deputy Secretary of the Smithsonian Park
testified in this Committee about the impact that AI is having
on the institution and the work researchers are doing to
harness its potential from astrophysics to conservation efforts
while guarding against risks.
Importantly the Smithsonian is reaching people in all 50
states and across the globe. In recent years, it has broadened
public access through its online resources, welcoming nearly
170 million visitors to its website last year. This has
expanded the Smithsonian's reach, building on the many millions
of in-person visits, 17.7 million last year, that it hosted in
its 21 museums and the National Zoo, sites that have remained
popular and in some cases far more popular than expected over
time.
To cite one example, the National Air and Space Museum was
originally designed for 2 million visitors annually, but it is
so popular that it has welcomed many more visitors, up to 7
million a year. We look forward to the completion of the Air
and Space Museum's needed renovations, and to it fully
reopening, and in time for the country's 250th anniversary in
July 2026, along with other cultural activities that Secretary
Bunch is planning to honor 250 years that will be taking place
on the National Mall.
I also look forward to hearing about the ongoing efforts
with the two new museums established with bipartisan support
after legislation passed this Committee unanimously in 2020,
the American Women's History Museum and the National Museum of
the American Latino.
Progress is well underway with fundraising for both new
museums at over $65 million each. That is $65 million each--
private money for the two museums.
There are two open sites on the National Mall that would
look even better with the new museums, as the Smithsonian Board
of Regents has determined, and the work to develop these
museums is ongoing. Dr. Elizabeth Babcock started work as
Director of the Women's Museum this month, joining Jorge
Zamanillo, founding Director of the Latino Museum, and staff
are working hard to build these collections.
These museums represent a critical opportunity to help
families visiting Washington to learn about the remarkable
contributions of Latino Americans and women to the fabric of
our country and our shared American story.
At the same time, we know that addressing the backlog
maintenance project at the institution must remain a priority.
I look forward to hearing about the Smithsonian's work to
assess its facilities and what else is needed to complete
ongoing maintenance and repair projects to protect collections
for future generations.
The Smithsonian will continue to play a critical role in
preserving and telling our country's history, and at the same
time, it will write new chapters through its groundbreaking
research.
I know I forever cherish my photo that is in a little black
and white polaroid from eighth grade when I made my first visit
to Washington and posed in what is now, I know, an antiquated
astronaut costume with my face in it that went right in my
scrapbook proudly displayed on the first page.
So many kids are having that same experience, maybe a
little more modernized. Thank you, Secretary, for being here. I
will now recognize Ranking Member Fischer for her opening
statement.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HONORABLE DEB FISCHER, A UNITED STATES
SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF NEBRASKA
Senator Fischer. Thank you, Chairwoman Klobuchar for
calling this oversight hearing today. I want to thank our
witness. Welcome, Secretary Bunch. As Secretary, you are
steward of 21 museums and research facilities, the National Zoo
and a growing collection of over 155 million objects and
specimens.
Speaking of the National Zoo, congratulations, Mr.
Secretary, to you and your team on the exciting news that the
zoo will welcome a new pair of pandas, Bao Li and Qing Bao. We
are grateful that you----
Chairwoman Klobuchar. I did not know you knew them
personally. That is impressive.
[Laughter.]
Senator Fischer. I get out. I get out. We are going to see
them at the end of the year is my understanding. It is a
national treasure, our Smithsonian, and we are grateful that
you are joining us today to tell us about the Smithsonian's
successes and also the challenges that it faces. Over the past
several Congresses, my colleagues and I have regularly heard
about the challenges faced by the Smithsonian, including its
deferred maintenance backlog.
I understand the deferred maintenance backlog has tripled
in the last several years, now totaling $3.3 billion. In
addition to the deferred maintenance on the public facing
museum, this amount includes deferred maintenance for the
700,000 square feet of space in aging storage facilities that
are inadequate to house these important institution's
collections.
The nation is so fortunate to have the Smithsonian's
collections, and the buildings to store and display them are
foundational to protecting them for future generations. I am
looking forward to seeing the paperweight that you brought from
William Jennings Bryan when he was Secretary of State under
Woodrow Wilson.
It is, I understand, a plowshare, which he had swords
turned into plowshares before the First World War. I find that
amazing, so I am looking forward to seeing that. As we look to
the needs that the Smithsonian has, it is especially crucial as
the museums and the Smithsonian continues to expand.
In 2020, Congress authorized two new museums, the National
Museum of the American Latino and the Smithsonian of American
Women's History Museum. I look forward to hearing about efforts
to address the deferred maintenance backlog while balancing the
addition of these two new museums.
Of course, the museum buildings in Washington, DC are not
the only way that Americans experience the Smithsonian. I have
heard wonderful things about the traveling exhibits of the
Smithsonian's Museum on Main Street. This partnership between
the Smithsonian's Travel Exhibitions Service and State
Humanities Councils brings the Smithsonian out of Washington.
I was pleased to see Nebraska included in this endeavor
over the last year. The Voices and Votes, Democracy in America
exhibit made stops in Howells, Kearney, Belvidere, Wahoo,
Gering, and Omaha, and I got to see it in Kearney. The
Waterways Exhibit at the Kearney Rails and Trails Museum opened
on March 2nd.
I was delighted to have the Smithsonian come to Nebraska,
and I want to congratulate the many Nebraskans who coordinated
with the Smithsonian to make this happen. Initiatives like
Museums on Main Street connect the Smithsonian to Nebraskans
and to all Americans nationwide who are unable to visit here in
Washington.
I hope to hear more about the ways the Smithsonian is
seeking to connect with Americans and increase that access to
its collections. Thank you again for being here, Secretary. It
is an excellent opportunity for Committee Members to learn more
about the challenges and the opportunities facing the
Smithsonian. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
Chairwoman Klobuchar. Thank you, Ranking Member Fischer. As
I noted, our witness today is Lonnie Bunch. He became the 14th
Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution in June of 2019.
Secretary Bunch previously served as a founding director of the
Smithsonian's National Museum of African American History and
Culture, which welcomed its 10 millionth visitor in September--
impressive.
Secretary Bunch is a published author and has held many
teaching positions. Earlier in his career, he worked for the
National Museum of American History and the Chicago Historical
Society. He received his undergraduate and graduate degrees
from American University. I will now swear in our witness.
Do you swear that the testimony you give before the
Committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Bunch. I do.
Chairwoman Klobuchar. Thank you. You can be seated, and we
will now proceed to your testimony and recognize you for five
minutes. Thank you.
OPENING STATEMENT OF LONNIE G. BUNCH III, SECRETARY,
SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION, WASHINGTON, DC
Mr. Bunch. Thank you. Good afternoon, Chairwoman Klobuchar,
Ranking Member Fischer, and Members of the Committee.
I want to thank you for this opportunity to testify before
you today, because it has been a couple of years since I last
met with you, and in that time, the Smithsonian has seen
approximately 34 million in-person visits to our museums,
education centers, and research facilities.
We have become an increasingly digital institution, seeking
out partners to implement technologies smartly and safely, so
we can bring the vast resource of the Smithsonian to people
around the country. With the help of Congress, some of our
renowned buildings like the Castle and the National Air and
Space Museum, have been undergoing substantially and needed
renovations.
This enduring institution has meant so much to the American
people and the citizens of the world for 178 years. It is
nearly impossible to adequately describe all that we do, from
protecting cultural heritage in war-torn nations, to helping
people explore their genealogy, to examining the surface of
Mars.
We engage with and educate people on important topics like
the essence of the American experience, the diversity of the
world's cultures, the sustainability of the planet, and the
nature of the universe. In some ways, we are at the center of
civic, educational, scientific, and artistic life of the nation,
and our international reach to more than 100 countries includes
robust research programs, partnerships, and knowledge
exchanges. Finally, we are responsible for the safety and
security of more than 6,500 employees, more than 3,800 on-site
volunteers, and millions of annual visitors to our museum.
My vision for the Smithsonian's future is to be a reservoir
of knowledge that anyone can dip into it anytime, anyplace. It
is embodied in the way that we have expanded our educational
research with a presence in every state in the Union and dozens
of countries worldwide. In the fiscal year 2023, more than
600,000 educators and students used the resources of our
learning lab, and nearly 3 million students used our
Smithsonian Science in the Classroom Curriculum.
We can see a glimpse of the Smithsonian's future in our two
new Congressionally authorized museums. These museums will not
only help us tell a more robust, expansive, and inclusive
version of America, but they will also be built as the first
digital-first museums. Their programing has already begun
reaching audiences well before concrete is poured.
Building new museums is something I know, and it requires a
massive outlay of money, as do other needs inherent in
buildings in such a vast institution like the Smithsonian. From
addressing deferred maintenance, to meeting increased salary
requirements, we increased our reach and impact by
collaborating with other agencies, organizations, and
governments whose goals align with us. We rely heavily on the
generosity of donors and the public who value all the work that
we do. We are grateful candidly that for the past three years
have been the most record-breaking philanthropy the
Smithsonian's ever had. Of course, the United States Congress
remains our most valuable partner. We take our fiscal
responsibility seriously and look to spend taxpayers' dollars
conscientiously in a way that maximizes our reach and our
impact.
Our strategic plan lays out bold goals for the
Smithsonian's future. Our actions over the past few years
reflect those goals. To be more digital and ways to reach more
Americans. To be nimbler and more effective in our operations.
To elevate our scientific endeavors. To expand our educational
efforts, and to really be a more trusted source. This will be
foundational to my goal of reaching every home and being in
every classroom across the nation.
The nation's 250th anniversary in 2026 will be a pivotal
moment for us to unveil just how much progress we have made. It
will serve as a celebration of what we have been, but also give
a glimpse of what we can be. We plan to activate the National
Mall with a vibrant cultural festival, and the renovated
National Air and Space Museum should be fully open to the
public in time for the commemoration. I have asked my
colleagues as well to work towards opening, at least
temporarily, the Castle for the public for that celebration as
well.
To coincide with those milestones, we have programing that
both celebrates and contemplates who we are as a nation and the
Smithsonian's place in it. We will invite Americans to explore
all corners of our complex histories and find ways to have
honest conversations that transcend our differences and connect
our shared humanity. It will be an opportunity for us to showcase
the myriad ways in which the Smithsonian has become nimbler,
more relevant, and more effective. Our institution is
undergoing a transformation.
Like any moment, it is filled with challenges, but I would
argue more than anything, it is a moment of opportunity to
truly fulfill the vision of our founder, James Smithson.
Decades before it was built, he foresaw this institution as a
gift to the American people. Recently, a couple of
announcements highlighted the Smithsonian's global reach.
The first, of course, we were able to secure giant pandas
to the National Zoo. I have always felt the key was never to be
the Secretary who lost to pandas, and I am so pleased to say
that as a result of the hard work, we will have the pandas by
the end of the year.
But also, a team led by the Smithsonian, the National
Oceanic Atmospheric Administration, created the National Ocean
Biodiversity Strategy. It is a vital plan for ocean
conservation, and it is a first nationwide strategy to improve
scientists' ability to serve and to gather knowledge on
critical biodiversity.
Both speak to our ability to work collaboratively, to think
creatively, to act decisively, to help find solutions to the
world's biggest challenge. I am more confident than ever that
the Smithsonian is uniquely positioned to do this.
Thank you for this hearing, and most importantly, for your
ongoing support and your commitment to work with us. I am happy
to answer any questions you have.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Bunch was submitted for the
record.]
Chairwoman Klobuchar. Very good. Well, that is exciting. I
had not focused on the 250th anniversary. We tend to focus on
right now, today, in this place. I think that is really
exciting. Two hundred and fifty years since the signing of the
Declaration of Independence and such an opportunity to reflect
on our great nation. How long has it been since the Castle was
opened?
Mr. Bunch. The Castle just closed about a year ago.
Chairwoman Klobuchar. Okay. Then you are going to reopen
parts of it?
Mr. Bunch. Right. The goal is that the amount of work that
has to be done in the Castle--the initial plan was for the
Castle basically to have the Mall torn up during the 250th. I
said, we cannot do that.
What we are going to do is do interior work so that we can
have the Castle open for the 250th, and then after the 250th,
we will do all the earthquake work that is going to tear the--
that is going to really help make it difficult for people to
visit the Castle.
Chairwoman Klobuchar. Okay. You know, since the pandemic, I
was just seeing that your average visitors up in Air and Space,
before you closed down for the work I assume, 7 million. But
you know, what has it been like? Because a lot of people were
worried we would not bounce back.
Mr. Bunch. I think the numbers have been really good. We
are now at pre-pandemic levels throughout the entire
Smithsonian.
Then couple that with all the digital work we are doing, we are
reaching more people than ever before.
Chairwoman Klobuchar. Can you talk about that, what you
have done to make it more accessible, the museum, virtually,
for people maybe in a little town in Nebraska, farmers that are
not going to be able to leave and--or, you know, because they
have got their crop coming in. Talk about how you have made
this accessible.
Mr. Bunch. What I realized is that the Smithsonian needed
to have people who really could help us lead the digital
transformation.
I created a unit to do just that. We are really looking at
how to really be in every home and in every classroom. Part of
what we are doing is making sure that we find the right
partners that we can collaborate with. Because I have realized
that the Smithsonian, no matter how creative it is, does not
have broad enough shoulders to do everything.
We are working with a variety of entities to make sure that
we can digitally share the information we want to do, but also
we are partnering with people like the 4-H clubs and looking at
different organizations that have never worked with the
Smithsonian to allow us to reach these many communities.
I think what I have really said to everybody is the 250th
is our opportunity to demonstrate all of that change. I am
using that as the marker to say, we are going to do everything
so that by the 250th you can see a new Smithsonian.
Chairwoman Klobuchar. Very good. Let's talk about the two
new museums. When you last appeared before the Committee, we
talked about the ongoing efforts to establish the museum. Since
then, as I noted, they both hired founding directors. We have
got that over $65 million for each museum, private money.
The efforts are going forward to build the collections.
There is a lot of excitement, bipartisan excitement in both
Houses for moving forward. While it is not at this point a
funding issue as much as the location, could you--and we have
been able to establish now with the agreement of both groups
two locations that I have seen.
I think they are really a good idea. What can you tell us
briefly about that progress? What is being done to talk to the
public about this? Well answer that first.
Mr. Bunch. Well, I think that first of all, things are
going very well with these museums. The $65 million that was
raised is really important.
When I was building the African American Museum, it took me
four years to get to $65 million, so there is already a great
deal of excitement about these new museums. But also, what I
have said is that these new museums, even though they are not--
they do not have a building, they have got to share content.
They have got to do things digitally.
We are doing programs, education programs around the
country through the lens of each of these museums to build
excitement, to let people know about it. Candidly, the hiring
of Elizabeth Babcock as the new director, that is a way to sort
of get more attention because she is new, there is a lot of
articles about her.
Basically, the goal here is to begin to do work to say the
history of women, the history of Latinos, cannot wait for a
decade. It has got to be done now. We are looking at different
ways to do that. How do we make sure that we are doing programs
around the country now to build that support? I think that from
a vantage point of where we are, we are in a good place.
The challenge, candidly, is finalizing the sites because
fundraising will pick up even more when you are able to
finalize a site. Two, you cannot plan on what the museums will
be without those sites. Therefore, it is really hard to sort of
keep people excited as you are saying, eventually we can tell
you what is going to be there.
Chairwoman Klobuchar. I mean, it is kind of extraordinary.
All these funds have been raised without the sites. But before
Senator Fischer was the Ranking, Senator Blunt and I went out
and looked at the sites.
Could you talk about those sites and how they fit in with
the vision of the--I know the Board of Regents has approved
these sites? Architects, historians, preservations are
consistent with this area of the Mall in our Nation's Capitol.
Mr. Bunch. Well, I looked at 26 sites around Washington. We
looked at sites that were vacant. We looked at sites that were
historic buildings. After looking at all these sites, we
realized that what was essential was to have these museums as
close to the Mall as possible. That the Mall is where the world
comes to understand what it means to be an American, and to be
able to have women's history and Latino history on the Mall was
crucially important.
We looked at these sites, one that we call the South
Monument site, which is across from the National Museum of
African American History and Culture, which is this really sort
of gem like site that is going to be the spot for the Women's
History Museum. Then we have another site that is behind the
Holocaust Museum that would be the site of the Latino Museum.
What is important is that these sites allow several things.
One, there is great excitement in the various communities that
they are going to be able to build these museums on the Mall.
Two, it allows these museums to craft architectural vision. To
be able to say, we want a building that reflects our culture,
much like we did with the National Museum of African American
History and Culture.
There is great excitement about the potential of new
buildings on new sites. Candidly, while there is always a
question of how do you preserve green space, what I love is the
building of the African American Museum has enriched the Mall.
It has not encountered--it has not hurt the Mall at all. I
think these new museums will do the same thing.
Chairwoman Klobuchar. Okay. Very good. Thank you. I will
turn it over to Ranking Member Fischer.
Senator Fischer. Thank you, Chairwoman Klobuchar. Secretary
Bunch, in February, Nebraska's Winnebago tribal chairwoman and
council members visited the National Museum of the American
Indians Cultural Resources Center, and they viewed some of
their cultural artifacts at that time.
They told me that it was a very powerful experience for
them, and that your staff there was extremely helpful. Thank
you very much. While they have not yet made an official
repatriation request for the artifacts, if they do, what does
that process look like? What does it entail for them?
Mr. Bunch. We have a very robust sense of repatriation.
They will put a request in, the Smithsonian Museum of American
History will look--Museum of American Indian will look at it.
Will then sort of assess their basic questions.
Is it a federally sponsored tribe, etcetera. Once those
questions are answered, then what we do is bring people back to
Washington to look at the particular artifacts they are
interested in and then make some final determination.
It is a process, but it is something that is fair and has
worked very well with other tribes.
Senator Fischer. Do you--and I assume your answer will be
yes. Do you work with the tribes in looking at the facilities
that need to be in place where these artifacts are going to be
stored to make sure that they are going to be preserved in a
manner that has to be adhered to? Then, do you help with
funding for that? Do they need to handle that on their own?
Where do we go on that?
Mr. Bunch. What we do is we want to make sure that both the
tribe is satisfied, but that the artifacts are preserved.
Therefore, we look to see what facilities they have, what
capability they have. There are times that we will give
direction that would be very helpful to do this.
We unfortunately do not have the resources to actually help
them. But I think the most important thing is to recognize that
we want to be able to return what the communities really want,
and that is really part of our goal.
Senator Fischer. Right. I know the chairwoman and the
council members, of course, they want to make sure that they
are looking not just at the needs of their current generation
of the tribe, but of the generations that these artifacts
belong to.
To make sure that they adhere to their beliefs and
principles, and then, of course, meet the conditions that you
would put on them as well.
Mr. Secretary, I also understand that on March 24th, there
was a food truck parked at 12th Street and Constitution Avenue
in between the Smithsonian American History and the Natural
History Museums. It caught fire. It was fully engulfed in
flames when the firefighters arrived.
The photos that I have seen from that incident were very
alarming, to say the least. Are these food trucks a regular
safety concern for you?
Mr. Bunch. You know, I understand the convenience of the
food trucks. I understand how it is important within the City
of Washington, DC for the business that these food trucks
create.
But candidly, they really cause a problem for us because
there are two levels of food trucks. There are those that have
the permits, which really are in the right spots. Then those
that just sort of take whatever spot they can.
It has become a problem on several levels. First of all,
there is a problem of it really has impact on my staff if there
are trash issues, they are taking care of the rodents issues.
But also, the way that these trucks are parked is people then
sort of take advantage of the green space and there is a lot of
damage to the property of the Smithsonian.
We are working with the City of Washington, DC, the
National Park Service, and others. But I want to be candid, we
have not resolved that yet. Luckily, the truck that burst on
fire did not catch--did not affect any other trucks. The person
was not severely hurt. But to me, it is a warning.
It is a warning that says that we want to be as fair as we
can, but we have really got to protect the public and protect
the Smithsonian.
Senator Fischer. Well, let us know if we can do anything on
that. I think it is a big problem. Your team recently completed
70 percent of the Smithsonian's Facilities Conditions
Assessment Program using a new methodology designed to provide
a more comprehensive assessment. What have you learned from
that so far? What is the significance of the new data that has
been compiled from it, please?
Mr. Bunch. Well, it is part of my strategic sense of how we
should address the deferred maintenance. Part of the issue for
me was that we wanted to no longer look at deferred maintenance
and capital as two different things.
To really think about strategically, how we put together
those two entities so that, for example, when we did the
National Air and Space Museum, we also took care of a lot of
the backlog. Then the question was, do we have realistic
numbers? We put together a new process that said to us, here
are ways to look at valuation. Here are ways to understand and
calculate inflation.
The numbers are now high, but it is not the fact that there
are new problems. It really is that the numbers allow us have a
more realistic way of doing it. Now what that allows me to do
is to figure out where we should put our priorities based on
what is the greatest need, and what is the greatest need that
allows us to continue to serve the public as effectively as we
can.
This has really been part of an overarching strategy that
allows us to really sort of focus our resources, make the
changes we want, and begin to deal with deferred maintenance.
The reality is, for having buildings that have, you know, 29
million people that go through them for 364 days a year,
deferred maintenance is probably one of the biggest challenges
we face.
Senator Fischer. Thank you.
Chairwoman Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Senator Fischer.
We are joined by Senator Warner, who is very eagerly awaiting
the return of pandas to the Zoo from the great State of
Virginia, right nearby.
Senator Warner. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. What you do
not know, and Madam Ranking Member----
Chairwoman Klobuchar. Is that you are responsible for
bringing back the pandas?
Senator Warner. That is classified. I cannot share. That is
classified.
[Laughter.]
Senator Warner. But, you know, when I was--one of my
mentors in the Senate was Chris Dodd. He said, ``you know, one
of the committees to get on is Rules, because not everybody
knows that Rules Committee actually has jurisdiction over the
Smithsonian, which is obviously terribly important for the DMV.''
We are very proud of the fact that we have got a number of
Smithsonian Institution's kind of back office operations across
the Commonwealth of Virginia. I am leaving an extraordinarily
classified hearing, which I was chairing, to make sure I could
come and do three things.
One, I want to commend you, Secretary Bunch, for--I think
you are doing a great job. I am--you know, your history of the
African American Museum. Now as overall Secretary of the
Smithsonian. I have watched how you have, you know, taken on
this challenge, worked with the community across the region, as
well as across the country.
You know, we spent a lot of time here, up here criticizing
folks, but I think, I wanted to come and say kudos and
congratulations for, I think, a job well done and hopefully one
that you will consider--continue for a long time, even though
since I know most of your board and some of them are very
difficult people to deal with. I will not get into names on
that.
But I have a couple of questions. You know, fastest growing
population in Virginia is first generation African diaspora. I
think it may even be the same in Minnesota. While the African
American Museum, you know, it is magnificent, it is mostly the
story of descendants of slaves.
You know, as you think about the Smithsonian's mission, you
know, we have got 128,000, you know, extraordinary
entrepreneurial--how do we build the ongoing stories of new
diasporas that come, you know and my particular interest in
this question is the African diaspora and how that is weaved
into the Smithsonian's story of America.
Mr. Bunch. The African diaspora is so important, and it is
really being addressed in three different parts of the
Smithsonian.
The National Museum of African Art has really been taking
the lead and working with these communities to sort of one,
bring them into the fold, to be able to sort of look at the
cultures of those communities and whether or not that is the
kind of culture that gets collected in that museum.
The National Museum of African American History and Culture
has actually now brought in two curators who just work on that
area of the diaspora. They are reaching out, doing new kinds of
exhibitions, online exhibitions that begin to build those
relations.
Then the Museum of American History is really looking at
how do we collect the local African diaspora community, so
those collections are there. As you know, the key to the
success of a museum is not necessarily what it is doing today,
but what it plans for, for tomorrow.
I want to make sure that while we are doing programs with
the community today, that we have the kind of collections that
allow that story to be told in the future.
Senator Warner. Did we tip you off on that question? That
was a pretty good answer. I thought I was going to come at you
and kind of like--kind of semi stump you.
[Laughter.]
Senator Warner. Did you tip him off? Well, I----
[Laughter.]
Senator Warner. Sound like a little--thought I was going
to, got you----
Chairwoman Klobuchar. This is not an Intel hearing.
[Laughter.]
Senator Warner. Yes, this is a--I stand by my earlier
statement. You are doing a good job because that is a pretty
darn comprehensive answer. But I do think you have this--the
constant remaking of the American story. I really hope, you
know, make sure you were not thrown off. What are you doing on
the on the South Asian diaspora?
Mr. Bunch. Well, I think that again, we are seeing some
attempt to do a better job of that. I think what I have asked
is that through our educational committee community, to reach
out, to begin to bring more involvement with these various
communities.
I have to be honest, the National Museum of Asian Art is
really spectacular in terms of being able to deal with local
communities. They had a recent exhibition that looked at
Southeast Asian art, and there was a variety of people coming
from different communities.
Senator Warner. Although I am chair of the India Caucus, I
do think there is a unique contribution from South Asia
separately, but I want to get my----
Mr. Bunch. Right.
Senator Warner. You know, I am glad you did not come back
and say, I have got four points on that one the way that, you
know. You know, and I do not think this issue has been raised,
but I do--would like to get your thoughts. I mean, one of
things we are all grappling with is AI.
You know, artificial intelligence as we--has enormous
ability to enhance, but we can also embed biases. We also have
to, I think, you know, think through, you know, do we actually
have the notion of some kind of, in a better sense, walled
garden around all of the intellectual property and images and
parts of our history the Smithsonian protects.
Because, you know, just as deepfakes can manipulate our
political process, you know, you could see AI tools at scale
and speed manipulate our history and cultural in ways that
could be frankly devastating. Talk to me about that.
Mr. Bunch. You know, there is real challenges with AI. I
mean, obviously, we want to make sure that we use it as an
effective tool. But the biggest concern we have is the
Smithsonian is a trusted source. That people know they can
count on the Smithsonian.
Trying to really sort of do more than dip our toe, but
understand how we can use AI and not lose that trusted source.
Part of what we are doing as we move toward the 250th is we are
taking some opportunities to test, to see, you know, if we can
we make AI work for us.
For example, while we are already doing a lot with it, we
are doing a lot in our astrophysical work, we are also using it
to help us scrub all of our documents to understand if we are
missing the history of women, for example, in a lot of the
scientific discoveries.
But I think that we are really trying to figure out how not
to be at the tip of the spear. We do not want to be at the end.
We arereally trying to figure out how to make this work for us. I
think we have to be involved. There have been--we have already
been approached about, do you want to use Smithsonian content
for machine learning and the like.
We are looking at a variety of opportunities. But the most
important thing is I do not ever want to lose the trusted
source. Right now, you cannot trust everything that happens
with AI.
Senator Warner. Thank you. While I have great, you know,
respect for California, Minnesota, Nebraska, remember the 250th
in many ways was--and regardless what those folks in Boston
say, it is more Williamsburg. It is, you know, across the
Commonwealth of Virginia and extraordinarily important. I will
go back----
Chairwoman Klobuchar. If you look at the artifacts over
there, which include Nebraska----
Senator Warner. I have got to go back to my classified
hearing.
Chairwoman Klobuchar. Are you aware of the virtual
expansion of the Smithsonian?
Senator Warner. I think it is wonderful. But if you want to
see the real stuff, come to Virginia.
[Laughter.]
Senator Warner. Thank you, Mr. Secretary.
Chairwoman Klobuchar. All right. Very good. Next up, we
have several new Members of the Committee. Senator Britt, who
was here earlier. Senator Laphonza Butler who is here for 14
months, so she asks your questions really fast.
No, not really--because she has to get a lot done quickly.
With that, I turn it over to Senator Butler of the State of
California.
Senator Butler. Thank you, Chairwoman Klobuchar, Ranking
Member Fischer. Secretary, thank you so much for coming. There
are so many accolades, I am sure, that have been lauded onto
you deservingly about your work here in Washington. But for an
Angeleno, it all starts at camp.
Mr. Bunch. Yes.
Senator Butler. Your contribution to generations of
Angelenos teaching us about the history of our city, in the
place that we belong, I think was just remarkable. All of the
platitudes earned, but I want to make sure that even
Washington, DC knows that California was where this started.
Hopefully--and they are continuing to see your leadership
from Los Angeles. Thank you for your work and service and for
being here. I do sort of move a little bit rapidly, so I am
going to try to move around a couple of big topics pretty
quickly in my time. The Chair has allotted us five minutes for
questions, but you have said that there are, in your strategic
plan, sort of five focus points.
You noted in your response to Senator Warner, the asset of
the Smithsonian as a trusted source for the American people,
and indeed, travelers around the world who want to understand
the history of our country. You talk specifically about this
trusted source as it relates to complex topics like social
justice, like climate.
Here are two quick questions. Can you say a little bit
about how you are working to ensure that Americans who are
unable to visit DC can understand the Smithsonian as a trusted
source?
I think some of what you are talking about relative to
virtual exhibits could be responsive to that. But also, how you
and your teamare telling the tough stories that are the truth
around these complex issues in the story of our country.
Mr. Bunch. Well, I think, first of all, what is really
important for us is to use all the Smithsonian assets to make
sure the country reaps the benefit of the Smithsonian. While a
lot of is virtual, also it is our traveling exhibitions.
The other thing we do is we do a lot of programs with
students that we bring students in from wherever they are into
Washington. We basically really have, as in our DNA, the
recognition that we are more about outside of Washington then
we are inside of Washington. Now, the second question is this
real issue of the difficult issues.
I have really felt that that is really the Smithsonian's
job. That at a time when you need clarity, at a time when there
is a debate, you want the Smithsonian to sort of bring its
scholarship, bring its perspective to help people grapple with
these issues.
When I built the African American Museum, the real key was
to make sure that I was not trying to sort of point fingers or
guilt. What I was trying to do is say, here is a way we
understand ourselves by looking at this complexity.
I would argue whether it is climate change, whether it is
issues of social justice, that the Smithsonian, because it has
art, history, culture, science can really bring our expertise
to bear. But what we also do is want to recognize that we do
not want to sort of get into controversy for controversy sake.
But we also recognize that if you are going to tell history
or science, controversy is there, so we will not run away from
it. All I ask from my colleagues is, let's think very carefully
about what we do.
Let's make sure it is always about driven by scholarship,
and then let's make sure it is always about the greater good.
To make sure that this is about how the Smithsonian is this
reservoir of understanding and a reservoir of hope. If we can
continue to do that, we can help the country move forward.
Senator Butler. I love that reservoir of hope. My last
question, just in the spirit of time, I know you talked a good
deal already about the two new museums and the waiver that is
necessary from Congress. Talk to us about the consequences of
that waiver not being granted.
Mr. Bunch. In some ways, if the waiver is granted but it is
two years down the road, what it really means is that you are
15 or 20 years away from an actual museum being built. Right
now there is attention focused on these museums.
There is fundraising. But if people feel that it is
stalled, there is going to be less sort of attention and
excitement to it. Now, candidly, if the waiver is not granted,
then the question is I am not sure.
Because we have looked at so many sites, and there are
sites that just say to you, knock down a building and move a
whole department of x. I do not know if--I do not think you can
do that. Right now I am committed and focused to working with
people like Senator Klobuchar to make sure that we can get a
waiver.
Chairwoman Klobuchar. One other thing I would add is doing
it sooner rather than later means that you are still the
Secretary for when we get started on this. Then we will require
you to stay 15 years.
But I think that would be helpful to have a seasoned leader
there when we get--at least to get this off the ground, as you
did with the African American Museum. You went a lot further
with that, as we know, with the 10 millionth visitor just
having visited there. That is another appealing thing, which I
think you have a lot of support on both sides of the aisle to
move this forward in a good way and the trust of the Regents.
I was going to--the question I was asked--I want to just
air for maybe my constituents next to the pandas, they would
like to know about the Air and Space Museum and what you are
doing there. Could you give us some details on that. What is
happening with that renovation?
Mr. Bunch. Well, you know, as somebody who started at the
Air and Space Museum in my career, it is what I really care a
lot about. What I am pleased is, is to say, look at how the Air
and Space has changed already.
The new exhibitions that we opened in 2022, the public
cannot get enough of them. They are really--what is powerful is
while they are rife with stories of aviation, they are also
rife with technology and rife with education.
They are really accessible. Then I think that what is also
happening is that--Udvar-Hazy out in Dulles is really getting
more and more visitors because of the large numbers of
airplanes and the work we are doing out there.
But I think what excites me in some ways about Air and
Space is that we also have this new Bezos Learning Center that
is going to be a part of it. What that really is, it gives the
Smithsonian opportunity to really do STEM and STEAM.
Yes, about aviation, but it is about the Smithsonian writ
large. It allows us to serve more students from around the
country to come to Washington. The Air and Space Museum and
where we are is, thanks to your support, the federal
transformation is now done.
Now, over the next two years, we will use private money to
build, rebuild, and open the new exhibitions. That, as I said,
by the time we get to 2026, the whole Air and Space Museum will
be open, and Udvar-Hazy will then be the place that even the
larger parts of aviation history.
Chairwoman Klobuchar. Very good. Just one of the things you
mentioned. I know, previously, the Smithsonian's effort to
protect collections most vulnerable to deterioration and
damage. We have certainly seen other parts of the country when
they are not protected or they are not in a safe place,
including preparing staff to rescue collections in an
emergency. Could you talk about what is going on with the
management of those vulnerable collections?
Mr. Bunch. Preserving the collections of the Smithsonian is
one of the key priorities of any Secretary. Those 155 million
artifacts are really not artifacts of nostalgia, but artifacts
of scholarship, artifacts of understanding, artifacts of
effective use.
What we have done is we have actually had a major look over
the last three or four years at how do we sort of improve our
collection storage. How do we also make sure that vulnerable
collections are protected?
For example, when we built the National Museum of African
American History and Culture, the goal was to really build
everything in there to handle flooding and climate change
issues. Now, we are looking to make sure we do that at the
American History Museum. We are looking at where we are most
vulnerable, how to make those changes.
In our fiscal year 2025 budget request, we request
resources that would allow us to bring, you know, slurry walls
and dams and pumps to the air into the American History Museum.
Basically, what we have done is we realized that we have to do
this on several levels.
One is address climate change and the possibility of the
flooding. We are looking at that. Two, training staff. We have
staff who are trained just to handle any kind of emergency. We
have already moved the most vulnerable collections away from
the lower levels so that as we are doing everything we can to
make sure that we are prepared when the inevitable happens.
That as we can continue then to put the resources into
addressing the challenge of climate change, we can protect the
institute, the museums we need to. The good thing, for example,
about the space is where we are looking for the new museums,
they are not in spaces of where they are at risk.
While we may do things to make sure that they can handle
the water, it is really the museums that are on the
Constitution Avenue side that are really most at risk, and that
is what we are focusing on.
Chairwoman Klobuchar. Okay. One last question. My favorite
museum to visit is the Portrait Gallery. Maybe because it is
not all portraits, but my favorite exhibit ever was, People Who
Remained Cool Through Time, which included two Minnesotans, Bob
Dylan and Prince. Just how is that museum doing?
Mr. Bunch. The Portrait Gallery was the first Smithsonian
Museum I ever visited when I came here to go to college. It is
something that is really important because, as you have said,
it is portraiture, but it is more than that.
It is rich history. It is popular culture. They are doing
very well. Kim Sajet, the Director, has really sort of
redefined notions of portraiture and have really brought in
people from around the country to give it the kind of financial
resources it needs to do wonderful things.
The Portrait Gallery, and its sister institution, the
Smithsonian American Art Museum are doing very well. They have
become a destination for many younger Americans who come to
Washington because they are one of the few Smithsonian that is
open late.
Chairwoman Klobuchar. Very interesting. With that, any
other questions, Senator Fischer?
Senator Fischer. Yes. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Just a
couple here. I am a cattle rancher, and I also sit on the AG
Committee, along with the Chairwoman of Rules, and I was
encouraged to see the Smithsonian partner with 4-H last summer
as part of the Rural Initiative.
Can you tell us a little bit about the Rural Initiative,
but also then how has the 4-H partnership gone so far?
Mr. Bunch. I really felt that the Smithsonian does a lot of
work in urban communities, but that it is rural and smaller
communities that need our attention. I wanted to build on work
we have done, the Museum on Main Street model of bringing the
Smithsonian to small towns, to shopping malls, to where--is
really brilliant.
But what I wanted was to be more systematic and strategic.
What I did with the Rural Initiative is that we have actually
had people going around the country to find out what the needs
are, and to find out how it is less about the Smithsonian
coming to rural America and more about a partnership that
allows the Smithsonian to be made better by understanding what
are the issues that rural communities need.
For us, it is--the 4-H club has been really powerful
because the 4-H clubs have, as you know, deep relationships
around the country and they have got amazing programs that we
are able to leverage.
The notion of being able to create dialogs around
democracy, to use the 4-H clubs to really help young Americans
not just look at the history of democracy, but understand their
obligation, their responsibility to sort of protect the
democracy has been really very moving.
Last summer we brought 700 students through the 4-H clubs
to the Smithsonian. They spent time at each of the museums.
They worked with curators. What I realized is that this is what
the Smithsonian does well, to give people a way to sort of find
wonder, to find new ways to think about their future, and new
ways to think about their community.
With the 4-H clubs, while we are doing, I think, important
work, I think we are also changing the Smithsonian.
Senator Fischer. Thank you. One last question. As we look
at leadership for the new museums, what is the process for
candidate selection, and how does the Smithsonian work with a
search firm, for example, to find and select a candidate?
Mr. Bunch. Running a cultural institution is hard work.
Running a conservatorship in the Smithsonian is unbelievably
challenging. Part of what we do is we look at this through
several lenses.
One, we try to hire important consulting firms that can
help tease out candidates, but also we reach out. I reached out
very directly around the Women's History Museum to people that
I thought were the kind of either the leaders or the next
generation of leaders that would sort of help the Smithsonian
move forward.
The process then is, you know, once we get a pool, we make
sure that they spend time not just with sort of senior
leadership, but with other museum directors, so they can
understand the challenge of the Smithsonian. Because, quite
candidly, when you run a museum that is not the Smithsonian,
you really are the CEO.
At the Smithsonian, you run a museum, you are a mid-level
manager, right. You have got other people on top of you.
Basically, we want people to understand the challenge of being
a director at the Smithsonian.
But then what we do is after they go through the process, I
get to speak to the final two candidates and really ask them
questions to guide my sense that they can embrace the ambiguity
of leadership, especially if you are building new museums. If
they understand the challenge of bureaucracy, and if they have a
vision.
Because basically, to build a new museum, you have got to
have a vision that you believe in that can carry you for a
decade.
Senator Fischer. I know there was a situation in the past
on a director for a new museum--and I hope this new process, or
a more complete process can be followed in the future.
Mr. Bunch. We wanted to make sure that instead of just
counting on a search firm to vet a candidate, we also have our
own private way of doing that.
We make sure that even after a search firm may say this is
a strong candidate, we have a process that allows us to sort of
vet it even further and to make sure that there are no
surprises, because I hate being surprised.
Senator Fischer. Me too. Thank you, Secretary.
Chairwoman Klobuchar. Did you have any additional
questions, Senator Butler?
Senator Butler. I am happy to ask if I am given extra time,
Chairwoman.
Chairwoman Klobuchar. Yes, yes.
Senator Butler. Thank you so much, I appreciate it.
Secretary, what are you--there is a lot of sort of criticism,
conjecture, sort of being laid upon this--the sort of newer
generations of Millennials, Gen Zs, call them Gen Y, call them
whatever you want.
I am curious about your ability, the institution's ability
to analyze data, relative to who are the participants in--
across all the platforms of the Smithsonian, in person,
virtual, traveling exhibits, partnerships and what do--if you
have the capacity to examine and analyze that data, what are
the trends that we are seeing relative to future generations
being interested in the story of this country?
What are you doing about those trends? There is a lot of
ifs, but I have some great curiosities as to how do we continue
the legacy and tradition of this trusted source----
Chairwoman Klobuchar. Says the mother of a nine-year old.
Senator Butler. Says the mother of a nine-year old who
cannot get her daughter to finish the African American Museum.
We have been three times.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Bunch. I think, first of all, it is crucial that the
Smithsonian has data. We really sort of look at who comes, who
participates in programs, who we are looking at virtually. In
some ways, the technology has allowed us to capture something
we could not capture in the past. We now have a much stronger
idea.
But also, what we find is that we have shaped programs to
different parts of our community, Gen X, Gen Z, to make sure
that we are asking the questions they want to ask. What I find
fascinating has been that when we are often building a museum,
people say, well, you know, these younger generations, they
want the virtual.
What they want is to realize that they have never seen the
actual and that we use the virtual to get them into the actual,
and that really works. We have many, many more people that are
grappling with it. I think the other thing that is so important
that the
Smithsonian is trying to do with these different generations is
really shape the educational community.
We are doing a lot of work. I created Under Secretary for
Education for the first time. We are doing a lot of work in
different communities to make sure that younger Americans
understand the power of history, the importance of science, the
joy of the creativity of art, so we see sort of millions of
young Americans engaging in the Smithsonian besides that trip
in eighth grade.
Senator Butler. That is super helpful. That is one of the
things really what I was trying to get at. Senator Klobuchar
really noted the point that I view most of, if not everything,
through a lens of one, urgency because of my short time in the
Senate, but also through the lens of being a parent.
You know, as I offer the story in jest in terms of my
daughter and the African American Museum, but does the data, do
the learnings offer you anything relative to footprint of new
museums?
One of the things that my nine-year old says, take it for
what it is worth, the science that it is worth, ``it is too
big, mama.'' I just want to do this little part. Does the data
give you any insight or any learnings across the industry and
field, give you any insight relative to what is the right
footprint for as we think about new museums, particularly as we
are grappling with the complexity of space and climate and all
of those things, as well as the attention of a nine-year old?
Mr. Bunch. I think what we found through the data is that
the museum needs to be compartmentalized. That regardless of
the footprint, you really want to be able to sort of not have
people try to do the entire experience.
Really trying to do pieces of it. I think that is something
that will shape as we are building the new museum. I think the
other thing is that to really--we are actually using a lot of
child psychologists and others to help us think about, all
right, what is the best level to engage?
Because as you know, in a museum, you are engaging a whole
array of people. We are looking at, do we use technology even
differently. Do we really craft opportunities that this really
works for sixth graders, this technology, this--and so, we are
looking at what are all the possibilities.
Chairwoman Klobuchar. Very good. Good questions. Thank you
very much, Senator Butler. I was thinking you will have to come
to Minnesota, Secretary Bunch, and see the country's biggest
state fair for your own cultural experience.
Mr. Bunch. Absolutely.
Chairwoman Klobuchar. We do not count Texas because they
are open 30 days. It is--there is a huge 4-H presence. I was
thinking about that since you have worked with them. Then you
could see the butter carving and think of it, of the Princess
Kay and the Milky Way out of huge butter bus that go in a
revolving refrigerator, and you could think of that as a future
exhibit.
Mr. Bunch. You are broadening my cultural horizons.
Chairwoman Klobuchar. Yes, exactly. That would be a lot of
fun. We have some great museums there, as you well know. I want
to thank Senator Fischer and the Members of the Committee for a
productive hearing.
As well as you, Secretary, for your testimony on the
ongoing work of the Smithsonian. Your vision for the future,
both for the existing collection and then all the exciting new
work going on with the two museums. I meant what I said, this
is our moment, near the end of the year, to allow you to get
these things launched. I look forward to continuing my work
with my colleagues to support the important work of the
Smithsonian.
The hearing record will remain open for a week. Do you want
to add anything, Senator Fischer? Okay, good. We are adjourned.
We are going to look at those artifacts. Thank you.
Mr. Bunch. Thank you.
[Whereupon, at 3:53 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
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