[Senate Hearing 118-348]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]




                                                        S. Hrg. 118-348

                            BUSINESS MEETING

=======================================================================

                                MEETING

                               before the

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________


                              MAY 31, 2023

                               __________


  Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works





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                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

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               COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
                             FIRST SESSION

                  THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware, Chairman
          SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia, Ranking Member

BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland         KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont             CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island     MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma
JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon                 PETE RICKETTS, Nebraska
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts      JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan            ROGER WICKER, Mississippi
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska
ALEX PADILLA, California             LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina
JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania

               Courtney Taylor, Democratic Staff Director
               Adam Tomlinson, Republican Staff Director











                            C O N T E N T S

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                                                                   Page

                              MAY 31, 2023
                           OPENING STATEMENTS

Carper, Hon. Thomas R., U.S. Senator from the State of Delaware..     1
Capito, Hon. Shelley Moore, U.S. Senator from the State of 
  Virginia.......................................................     2

                          ADDITIONAL MATERIAL

Letter of Support from more than 30 Labor-Environmental NGO's and 
  business groups for the Accelerating Development of Versitile, 
  Advanced Nuclear for Clean Energy (ADVANCE) Act of 2023........     5
Letter of Support from American Nuclear Insurance (ANI) for the 
  Accelerating Development of Versitile, Advanced Nuclear for 
  Clean Energy (ADVANCE) Act of 2023.............................     7

                              LEGISLATION

Senator Carper and Capito's Amendments to S.1111 Legislation in 
  the nature of a substitute.....................................    11
Senator Carper and Capito's Amendments to S.1111 Legislation.....    94









 
                            BUSINESS MEETING

                              ----------                              


                        WEDNESDAY, MAY 31, 2023

                                       U.S. Senate,
                 Committee on Environment and Public Works,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:47 a.m. in room 
406, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Thomas R. Carper 
(chairman of the committee) presiding.
    Present: Senators Carper, Capito, Cardin, Sanders, 
Whitehouse, Merkley, Markey, Stabenow, Kelly, Padilla, Cramer, 
Lummis, Boozman, Wicker, Mullin, Ricketts.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS R. CARPER, 
            U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF DELAWARE

    Senator Carper. Good morning, everyone. I call this 
business meeting to order.
    I want to thank everyone for joining us today as we 
consider the nomination of Jefferey Baran to serve as 
Commissioner of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. We will also 
consider Senator Capito's Accelerating Deployment of Versatile 
Advanced Nuclear for Clean Energy, or the ADVANCE Act. As soon 
as a voting quorum is present, we will proceed to a vote on 
Jeff Baran, President Biden's nominee to serve another term as 
Commissioner of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
    I want to pause for a moment to say a special thanks to you 
and to everybody who has worked to help shape the ADVANCE Act. 
We all know we need to provide, to meet our energy needs in 
this Country, we need to do it in a way that does not 
exacerbate the challenges that we face with respect to climate. 
Nuclear is a great compromise.
    I want to thank you very much for your work and members on 
both sides, and Sheldon, for your support as we have crafted 
this legislation.
    Senator Whitehouse. Happy to do it, Chairman.
    Senator Carper. Let me say a word or two if I can about 
Jeff Baran. Jeff Baran is a dedicated public servant who has 
served on the Nuclear Regulatory Commission since 2014. 
Throughout his time on the NRC, he has demonstrated his 
commitment to ensuring the safety and security of our Nation's 
use of nuclear energy and materials.
    Commissioner Baran has also advanced America's energy 
security and efforts to slow climate change through the 
Commission's work to establish the right regulatory framework 
for the safe licensing and operation of new carbon-free 
technologies. This includes the next generation of nuclear 
reactors and fusion energy systems.
    In addition, Commissioner Baran understands that his job is 
to serve the public, the people of this Country. He has focused 
on providing opportunities for engagement and input from all 
stakeholders, especially those in disadvantaged and underserved 
communities.
    Finally, maintaining a full slate of commissioners will 
help the NRC continue to carry out its responsibilities 
effectively and efficiently. With that in mind, I will vote yes 
on Jeff Baran's nomination. I urge my colleagues to do the 
same.
    With that said, Senator Capito, let me yield to you for 
anything you would like to share with us. Again, thank you for 
your leadership on this.

        OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, 
          U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA

    Senator Capito. Thank you, Chairman Carper. I want to begin 
by saying the news we got over the week is happy/sad for us, to 
know that you are going to be joining Senator Cardin into a 
better life, and that is life after the Senate.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Capito. I do want to pay tribute to your service, 
but I will do that as we move through the year, because you are 
not going anywhere.
    Senator Carper. Many people have been so kind in the last 
week. If I had known folks were going to be that nice, I might 
have recessed earlier.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Capito. The one thing I will say is we have a lot 
in common. We are both native West Virginians, as we both 
remark about our love for our State. Also through your entire 
service, you have served on this committee. That is the same 
with me, although my service is much shorter than yours.
    I will move to the issues at hand. Nuclear energy is 
critical to strengthening our energy and national security, 
providing for energy reliability and achieving our 
environmental goals. Our geostrategic rivals are offering long-
term nuclear energy deals to establish energy dependent 
relationships around the globe and dominate the nuclear energy 
landscape into the 21st century.
    America can and should lead in nuclear energy, and that is 
why I introduced the ADVANCE Act. The ADVANCE Act is 
bipartisan, with 16 cosponsors. The Chairman is on the bill, 
Senator Lummis, Senator Whitehouse, Senator Ricketts, Senator 
Cardin, Senator Graham and Senator Kelly, all members of this 
committee. It will assert America's global leadership in 
nuclear energy.
    The legislation will assist States like my home State of 
West Virginia to repurpose brownfields sites by deploying 
advanced nuclear reactors at previously developed facilities 
like decommissioned conventional power plants. The bill 
incentivizes nuclear innovators to rapidly develop new 
technologies.
    The bill requires the Nuclear Regulatory Commission to 
identify and resolve key regulatory issues like advanced 
manufacturing and construction techniques, advanced nuclear 
fuel licensing and non-electric uses of nuclear to enable 
greater use of technologies. It extends a key Federal policy to 
provide backstop insurance coverage to help deploy more nuclear 
energy. The bill reduces excess regulatory costs and cumbersome 
red tape.
    The Carper-Capito manager's amendment makes targeted 
improvements to the introduced bill based on the bipartisan 
feedback that we got from our colleagues. The amendment 
supports early licensing work to enable the deployment of 
advanced nuclear reactors at critical national security 
infrastructure sites. The amendment adds clarity to the NRC's 
new authority to hire and retain expert staff, to ensure 
licensing reviews are successfully completed.
    In short, the bipartisan ADVANCE Act will jumpstart the 
deployment of new, safe, and reliable nuclear technologies. As 
The ADVANCE Act moves forward, I hope we will continue to work 
together to incorporate additional bipartisan policies that 
arise to enable efficient, safe licensing reviews.
    The NRC is tasked with licensing and regulating nuclear 
material to ensure reasonable assurance of adequate protection 
of public health and safety, to promote the common defense and 
security, protect the environment, and improve the general 
welfare. Advancement of the NRC's important mission is why I so 
strongly support the aptly named ADVANCE Act, but why I oppose 
the other business item we are considering today, which is the 
renomination of Jeff Baran to serve as a commissioner.
    We stand at a pivotal moment, ready to accelerate the 
liftoff of new advanced reactors and renew American leadership 
in nuclear. Unfortunately, Commissioner Baran is not the right 
fit for this moment. NRC commissioners establish the standards 
and safety regulations to enable America's nuclear companies to 
fulfill our Nation's established nuclear energy policy goals.
    Since Commissioner Baran joined the Commission in 2014, he 
has pursued policies supporting his regulatory philosophy. That 
philosophy has frustrated, I believe, the mission of the NRC. 
He has called for unjustifiably increasing regulatory burdens 
and reducing regulatory predictability. His record supports 
ratcheting up regulations and associated compliance costs to 
really no useful end.
    During his renomination hearing, he tried to distance 
himself from that record, espousing priorities that are 180 
degrees removed from how he actually voted during his two terms 
as a commissioner.
    I am considering his renomination based on his record and 
continued service of Commissioner Baran on the Commission, in 
my view, would impede America's advancement toward a future of 
nuclear energy leadership to the benefit of Russia's and 
China's geostrategic plans, and would limit access to clean 
baseload generation at home and abroad.
    For these reasons, I cannot support and urge my colleagues 
to oppose Commissioner Baran's nomination. I thank the Chairman 
for scheduling this business meeting.
    Senator Carper. You bet. Happy to do it.
    Senator Capito. I would like unanimous consent to enter 
letters of support from more than 30 labor-environmental NGO's 
and business groups and a letter of support from American 
Nuclear Insurance.
    Senator Carper. Without objection, so ordered.
    [The referenced information follows:]


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    Senator Carper. We are awaiting the arrival of Senator 
Fetterman. We will vote right away on the nomination of the NRC 
Commissioner.
    I want to take just a minute until Senator Fetterman 
arrives here just to mention a couple of other things on the 
ADVANCE Act. As our Nation's largest source of reliable, 
carbon-free electricity, nuclear energy is critical to meeting 
our climate goals and maintaining our energy security.
    This bipartisan legislation will help the United States 
remain a clean energy leader by providing the certainty needed 
to safely deploy the next generation of nuclear reactors and 
fuels. The bill will also aid tribal communities and 
communities facing economic challenges associated with retired 
nuclear plants and stranded waste.
    Additionally, the ADVANCE Act will help ensure that the 
Nuclear Regulatory Commission has the tools and work force to 
keep our current reactors safe and to efficiently review new 
nuclear technologies.
    Preserving and expanding our Nation's use of clean and 
reliable nuclear energy is also essential for our economic and 
for our national security interests. This bill will help 
strengthen the U.S. nuclear supply chain infrastructure and 
will support the export of American nuclear technologies, 
benefiting the domestic industrial base and filling a vacuum 
that would likely otherwise be filled by China and Russia.
    I thank Senator Capito and Senator Whitehouse again for 
their leadership and collaboration on this legislation. I want 
to thank everybody on this committee who has participated in 
crafting this bipartisan legislation. I urge our colleagues to 
join us in voting yes on this bill.
    We are still awaiting the arrival of Senator Fetterman. 
Senator Whitehouse, please.
    Senator Whitehouse. Let me just say some quick thanks to 
you, and to Ranking Member Capito. I think this is the fourth 
nuclear reform bill that I have worked on in a bipartisan 
fashion. I want to recognize Senator Barrasso and Senator 
Crapo, who have done good work in this space as well. Senator 
Capito has really been a terrific partner and I want to thank 
her for this.
    Chairman, your work has been really exemplary, not only 
supporting us in the design of the bill but also putting 
together the manager's amendment that will enhance smooth 
passage forward of the measure. Much appreciation to the both 
of you. Let's hope for a good day on the committee.
    Senator Carper. All right. Senator Sanders?
    Senator Sanders. Senator Carper, any way that we could 
start the vote?
    Senator Carper. Yes, we are going to start the vote on the 
ADVANCE Act, I think. Okay. I now call up S. 1111, the ADVANCE 
Act. In early April, I joined Senator Capito and Senator 
Whitehouse in co-leading the introduction of the bipartisan 
ADVANCE Act.
    Over the following weeks, Senator Capito and I worked to 
refine that legislation, with the help of a lot of you. Those 
refinements are embodied in an amendment in the nature of a 
substitute, which I circulated yesterday morning. This 
amendment represents non-controversial changes from the 
legislation as introduced. By unanimous consent, the Carper-
Capito amendment in the nature of a substitute is considered to 
be the base text for the purpose of today's markup.
    Is there any objection? Hearing none, so ordered.
    [The text of the amendment follows:]

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    Senator Carper. Does any Senator wish to offer an amendment 
to this legislation?
    Senator Lummis. Mr. Chairman?
    Senator Carper. Yes, please.
    Senator Lummis. I would like to call up Lummis Amendment 
No. 1. This amendment is simple. It clarifies that two Federal 
agencies should not be doing the exact same environmental 
analysis on a project. This is a classic example of government 
waste and duplicity.
    In my home State of Wyoming, we are having this TerraPower 
project that is planned to build a new advanced reactor called 
Natrium at a retired coal-fired power plant in Kemmerer, 
Wyoming. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission is already licensing 
this site and doing the NEPA analysis.
    Unfortunately, a totally new office at the Department of 
Energy, the Office of Clean Energy Development, established 
under the recent Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, stepped in and 
asserted that they needed to do their own environmental 
analysis of the project, rather than deferring to the NRC. This 
is duplicative. It is wasteful, and an unnecessary delay of a 
project that I believe both sides support.
    I will not be requesting a vote on this amendment, but I do 
hope to highlight exactly why permitting reform is necessary. I 
am proud to support the underlying bill as a cosponsor. I 
appreciate Ranking Member Capito and her staff as well as you, 
Mr. Chairman, for your work on this legislation.
    I withdraw my amendment.
    Senator Carper. Thank you so much.
    Other amendments, please? Hearing none, the Clerk will call 
the roll on the ADVANCE Act, please.
    The Clerk. Mr. Boozman?
    Senator Boozman. Yes.
    The Clerk. Ms. Capito?
    Senator Capito. Yes.
    The Clerk. Mr. Cardin?
    Senator Cardin. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Cramer?
    Senator Cramer. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Fetterman?
    Senator Carper. Aye by proxy.
    The Clerk. Mr. Graham?
    Senator Capito. Aye by proxy.
    The Clerk. Mr. Kelly?
    Senator Kelly. Aye.
    The Clerk. Ms. Lummis?
    Senator Lummis. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Markey?
    Senator Markey. No.
    The Clerk. Mr. Merkley?
    Senator Merkley. No.
    The Clerk. Mr. Mullin?
    Senator Mullin. Yes.
    The Clerk. Mr. Padilla?
    Senator Padilla. Yes.
    The Clerk. Mr. Ricketts?
    Senator Ricketts. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Sanders?
    Senator Carper. No, by proxy.
    The Clerk. Ms. Stabenow?
    Senator Stabenow. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Sullivan?
    Senator Capito. Aye by proxy.
    The Clerk. Mr. Whitehouse?
    Senator Whitehouse. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Wicker?
    Senator Wicker. Yes.
    The Clerk. Mr. Chairman?
    Senator Carper. Aye.
    The Clerk will report.
    The Clerk. Mr. Chairman, the yeas are 16, the nays are 3.
    Senator Carper. The legislation has been favorably 
reported. I am grateful to everyone who came and stayed. We 
still have some work ahead of us on the Nuclear Regulatory 
Commission nominee. Maybe we can take care of that off the 
floor today. We will see if that can be worked out. That would 
be good.
    I think we can probably let people go now. For anyone who 
wants to stay and make statements for the record, you are more 
than welcome. Anybody who wants to stay and share remarks, that 
will be fine. Senator Markey, I understand you may have 
something you would like to say. You are more than welcome to 
do that.
    Senator Markey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, very much. I 
understand, Mr. Chairman, that this legislation is important to 
many members of the committee. We should not give a boost to 
the nuclear industry without commensurately confronting the 
longstanding issues of how to deal with nuclear waste and 
nuclear decommissioning.
    Senator Carper. The hearing will be in order, please.
    Senator Markey. If we support new plants with reactors 
without addressing the needs of operating reactors and affected 
communities, we will be adding radioactive fuel to a fire and 
making our existing problems worse.
    The ADVANCE Act takes unprecedented steps to have the 
Nuclear Regulatory Commission promote nuclear exports, not 
simply nuclear safety, which is its core mission, all to prop 
up the ailing U.S. nuclear industry at home and abroad. I 
remain deeply concerned about this extension of the Nuclear 
Regulatory Commission's mission. It is supposed to be a 
regulator.
    Other agencies are supposed to be promoting American 
commerce. That is not the job of the Nuclear Regulatory 
Commission. Its job is to promote safety, it is to ensure these 
plants are safe.
    That is what happened back in 1974, we broke the Nuclear 
Regulatory Commission off from the Atomic Energy Commission, so 
there would be separate missions, separate goals, separate 
responsibilities. Now to turn the Nuclear Regulatory Commission 
into an agency that is promoting a technology it is supposed to 
be regulating begins to blur this role, especially as we are 
talking about exports overseas.
    I am also concerned that in Section 103 of this legislation 
it could allow the NRC to skirt the critical non-proliferation 
safeguards in this bill, and unilaterally approve an export 
license for foreign countries to receive nuclear materials. 
That could present a significant non-proliferation risk and put 
a domestic nuclear safety agency in charge of important 
national security decisions.
    With all due respect to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, 
the Commission was never meant to be in the business of 
deciding if Saudi Arabia gets nuclear materials. We are 
blurring the historic role that this agency plays. This 
legislation is not wise. We have to keep these lines strong.
    Moreover, I am concerned that Section 104 has an overly 
expansive definition of embarking civil nuclear nations. We 
need to be much more cautious when exporting such risky and 
dangerous technologies. While some of the bill's supporters 
argue we need new nuclear technologies to combat the climate 
crisis, I have an arched eyebrow as to why this bill focuses 
solely on nuclear energy and not on other zero-emissions 
technologies, such as wind and solar and geothermal, which is 
what our Country should be promoting around the rest of the 
world.
    It is also shortsighted to me to make such a Herculean 
effort to promote new nuclear technologies when we are yet to 
solve the longstanding problems resulting from our existing 
nuclear fleet. To this day, the Navajo Nation is dealing with a 
legacy of uranium contamination, including more than 500 
abandoned uranium mines, and homes and water sources polluted 
with elevated levels of radiation.
    While Section 405 of the ADVANCE Act acknowledges this 
ongoing concern, the funding authorized in this legislation 
will not address the full legacy of radioactive pollution. 
Providing a capped level of authorized funding for communities 
dealing with this radioactive legacy contrasts greatly with 
Section 202 of the bill, which allows for nuclear companies to 
receive an uncapped award for licensing costs.
    It is deeply disappointing to me that we are capping costs 
for cleanup, but not capping prizes for technologies that will 
likely rely on uranium, which caused this pollution in the 
first place.
    Additionally, while this bill provides some funding to 
assist communities impacted by the closure of impending nuclear 
power plants, it does not include legislative proposals that 
would fully address the concerns of communities struggling to 
overcome the social and economic burden of indefinitely hosting 
stranded nuclear waste, when there is no long-term storage 
solution in sight.
    Our communities have become de facto nuclear storage 
facilities, endangering them, their families, and the 
environment. These communities, including those in 
Massachusetts around the Pilgrim Nuclear Power Station, deserve 
more funding, a meaningful say in the decommissioning process, 
and a real pathway to consent-based, long-term storage for our 
Nation's spent nuclear fuel.
    That is why I have supported and introduced legislation in 
the past like the Nuclear Waste Task Force Act and the Dry 
Storage Act and Senator Sanders' Nuclear Plant Decommissioning 
Act.
    Chairman Carper, I want to work with you as we move forward 
between here the floor. I think that there are many problems 
with this legislation. There are real nuclear non-proliferation 
issues here. We know that there are countries around the world, 
including Saudi Arabia, that have potential instability and we 
do not want to wind up in a situation where nuclear power 
plants have been sold to North Korea, which then turn into 
nuclear bomb factories, or nuclear power plants that have been 
sold to Iraq, which then turn into nuclear bomb factories.
    Or in the instance of Iran, we were going to sell six 
nuclear plants to Iran in the late 1970's, and had already 
finished that deal before the Shah of Iran fell. Can you 
imagine if they had six nuclear power plants that had already 
been constructed with U.S. aid in the 1970's before the Shah 
fell? That is what we are talking about here.
    I just want to make sure we understand that as we are going 
to become nuclear Johnny Appleseeds and encouraging the Nuclear 
Regulatory Commission to be promoting this nuclear technology 
around the world, with lower safeguards in terms of what the 
protections are, then yes, in the short term, the nuclear 
industry will reap the financial benefits of it. Inevitably, 
inexorably, the world will reap the whirlwind, and the next 
ayatollah or equivalent somewhere in the world would then have 
access to the nuclear materials that could hold the whole world 
hostage.
    From my perspective, I just think a lot more thought has to 
go into this legislation. Safeguards have to be included. I 
just want to have an opportunity to be able to work with you, 
Mr. Chairman, and the Ranking Member, to build in those 
safeguards.
    Senator Carper. Thank you, Senator Markey.
    Let me say, while I do not fully agree with your 
characterization of the legislation, I hear your concerns. Your 
staff has shared those with us as well, and shared those 
concerns with Senator Capito's staff. We look forward to 
finding, if we can, ways to address our Nation's growing 
nuclear spent fuel and ways to ensure that we have an effective 
and efficient decommissioning process that helps us safely when 
needed to close a nuclear site. I commit to working with you on 
those issues.
    Senator Merkley.
    Senator Merkley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think my 
colleague from Massachusetts has laid out and summarized more 
eloquently than I can concerns that I do have. I do want to 
emphasize that blurring the distinction between export 
promotion and nuclear safety is a huge mistake.
    We have nations that very much want nuclear technology, and 
my colleagues has mentioned Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia does not 
want the gold standard, they do not want international 
supervision. We have to remember that there is a Shi'ite force, 
major force, in the Islamic world, and there is a Sunni force. 
Those two countries, Iran and Saudi Arabia, are in competition 
with each other.
    Here we are, putting extraordinary restrictions on Iran, 
which I have supported, although I would have liked to have 
seen the deal that really dismantled their operations 
sustained, a massive mistake that increased risks in the world, 
for the Trump Administration to exit that agreement.
    We seem to feel like there is some massive difference with 
Saudi Arabia. We should remember that there is no way Iran is 
not going to pursue a weapon if Saudi Arabia is pursuing a 
weapon. Saudi Arabia is much more on that track than Iran is, 
ironically. They are also developing the missiles to deliver 
it.
    We should be very careful about taking a safety 
organization that has integrity, that has responsibility, that 
has clarity on safety and say that they should promote the 
export of nuclear technology. There are far more complicated 
issues in the world. We should not blur that distinction.
    Saudi Arabia is not on the banned list here, and there is 
no condition about the gold standard that we have previously 
promoted if we were to export, so that we would not end up 
essentially putting them on the track that we are saying that 
Iran, that we do not want Iran to go down.
    I have supported the development of small nuclear reactors, 
knowing that we have solved neither the nuclear weapon nor the 
dirty bomb problem, simply because I felt like the research on 
an ultimate safe reactor was extremely important in a world in 
which we are facing climate change. How and when these are 
deployed, when they could create risks in international affairs 
that include dirty bomb risks and nuclear bomb risks, should 
never be confused with the issue of safety done by the nuclear 
agency, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
    I share a lot of my colleague's concerns.
    Senator Carper. I thank you both for your thoughtful 
comments. I yield to the author of the legislation, Senator 
Capito.
    Senator Capito. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I take the 
gentleman's concerns into consideration. We had a very 
overwhelming vote in committee, 16 to 3. I think that shows the 
desire of the members of the committee to move forward on this 
technology and to move forward on the development of the 
technologies. I mentioned in my statement that we will be 
hopefully working this bill further, as hopefully we can get to 
the floor, and we will have conversations with your staffs.
    I would say the mission of the Nuclear Regulatory 
Commission is safety. That is No. 1. Any time they are before 
our committee, any time we have talked with them, that is their 
No. 1 mission. They espouse it, not just espouse it, practice 
it, and verbalize that every single time they are in front of 
our committee. I am sure with the ADVANCE Act that would be 
front and center as well.
    I do think that if we as a country can become the chief 
technologist, the chief developer, the chief innovator of these 
smaller, modular reactors, we can lead the world. We can put 
safeguards in, if that is what the desire of the committee 
would be.
    I appreciate your concern. I know the waste is a concern. I 
do think, and remember where I am from, I am from a State that 
generates a lot of natural gas and coal and has for 100 years 
at least. Every day I hear how everything needs to be cleaner 
and greener. This technology would lead us to that, and provide 
us with a baseload energy source and could recommission areas 
in my State and other States, thereby helping us with job loss 
and other things that are connected with it as we are moving 
forward.
    Let's just keep working on it together. I appreciate your 
staying later and giving us your thoughts. Thank you.
    Senator Carper. Senator Markey.
    Senator Markey. The problem is this. There is a dual 
identity to nuclear energy. In the hands of some, it has this 
incredible ability to generate electricity. It has this 
unfortunate side product of uranium and plutonium.
    In the eyes of others, it has this incredible ability to 
give access to plutonium and uranium, but it has a wonderful 
side benefit of electricity as well. That is what those 
countries, those individuals, will be trying to focus on.
    We have to be very careful, because of its dual identity. 
We have not solved the nuclear waste problem in our own 
country. We do not want uranium and plutonium in other 
countries in the world without full scope safeguards. If we are 
going to be exporting and we are going to be promoting these 
technologies, then we have to promote the gold standard. We 
have to promote full scope safeguards.
    That is where we need the leadership. We are not going to 
be the leader on the technology, but we can be the leader on 
the values that we attach to the technology, the standards that 
we attach to the technologies, the goals that we have for our 
planet and our society for these technologies. That is what is 
missing here.
    I just want to make sure that as we are going forward that 
we have a full discussion about that. We have to be speaking 
with a loud, clear voice about what our expectations are, not 
just for ourselves but for the rest of the world as they 
compete with us. We can not have them continually lowering 
their standard, and we are going to lower ours as well in terms 
of those safeguards, because then we just become nuclear 
merchants out on the road hawking our wares.
    Ultimately, at some point, maybe not 5 years from now or 10 
or 15 or 20, there will be unfortunately a compromise of this 
technology. Then that generation will have to deal with the 
fact that we didn't build in the safeguards up front.
    I am looking forward to working with you.
    Senator Carper. Both Senator Capito and I and our staffs 
are looking forward to working with you. I want to thank both 
you and Senator Merkley for your thoughtful comments.
    In closing, I would say achieving our economy-wide 
decarbonization goals requires a diverse set of solutions, as 
we know. Nuclear energy has an important role to play in that 
regard.
    The ADVANCE Act builds on the actions we have taken through 
the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and the Inflation Reduction 
Act to preserve and expand our Nation's use of nuclear energy. 
This bill is, I believe, an exciting step forward. I thank 
Senator Capito and her team very much for their leadership and 
collaboration on this important piece with Senator Whitehouse, 
my staff, and myself. I look forward to working with our Senate 
colleagues to pass this legislation, make it better if we can, 
and send it to the President's desk.
    Finally, I would like to ask unanimous consent to submit 
additional materials relating to the morning's votes into the 
record, including letters of support for the ADVANCE Act of 
2023.
    [The referenced material was not submitted in time for 
print.]
    Senator Carper. I also ask unanimous consent that the staff 
has the authority to make the technical and conforming changes 
to each of the matters approved today.
    Is there objection? Hearing none, with that, this business 
meeting is adjourned. Thank you all.
    [Whereupon, at 10:20 a.m., the business meeting was 
adjourned.]

                             [all]