    [Senate Hearing 118-348]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                            S. Hrg. 118-348

                                BUSINESS MEETING

    =======================================================================

                                    MEETING

                                   before the

                                  COMMITTEE ON
                          ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                        ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

                                  MAY 31, 2023

                                   __________

      Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works

                     [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                                   ______

                     U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

    56-011                    WASHINGTON : 2025

                   COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                        ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
                                 FIRST SESSION

                      THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware, Chairman
              SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia, Ranking Member

    BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland         KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
    BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont             CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming
    SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island     MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma
    JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon                 PETE RICKETTS, Nebraska
    EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts      JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
    DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan            ROGER WICKER, Mississippi
    MARK KELLY, Arizona                  DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska
    ALEX PADILLA, California             LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina
    JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania

                   Courtney Taylor, Democratic Staff Director
                   Adam Tomlinson, Republican Staff Director

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------
                                                                       Page

                                  MAY 31, 2023
                               OPENING STATEMENTS

    Carper, Hon. Thomas R., U.S. Senator from the State of Delaware..     1
    Capito, Hon. Shelley Moore, U.S. Senator from the State of
      Virginia.......................................................     2

                              ADDITIONAL MATERIAL

    Letter of Support from more than 30 Labor-Environmental NGO's and
      business groups for the Accelerating Development of Versitile,
      Advanced Nuclear for Clean Energy (ADVANCE) Act of 2023........     5
    Letter of Support from American Nuclear Insurance (ANI) for the
      Accelerating Development of Versitile, Advanced Nuclear for
      Clean Energy (ADVANCE) Act of 2023.............................     7

                                  LEGISLATION

    Senator Carper and Capito's Amendments to S.1111 Legislation in
      the nature of a substitute.....................................    11
    Senator Carper and Capito's Amendments to S.1111 Legislation.....    94

                                BUSINESS MEETING

                                  ----------

                            WEDNESDAY, MAY 31, 2023

                                           U.S. Senate,
                     Committee on Environment and Public Works,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:47 a.m. in room
    406, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Thomas R. Carper
    (chairman of the committee) presiding.
        Present: Senators Carper, Capito, Cardin, Sanders,
    Whitehouse, Merkley, Markey, Stabenow, Kelly, Padilla, Cramer,
    Lummis, Boozman, Wicker, Mullin, Ricketts.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS R. CARPER,
                U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF DELAWARE

        Senator Carper. Good morning, everyone. I call this
    business meeting to order.
        I want to thank everyone for joining us today as we
    consider the nomination of Jefferey Baran to serve as
    Commissioner of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. We will also
    consider Senator Capito's Accelerating Deployment of Versatile
    Advanced Nuclear for Clean Energy, or the ADVANCE Act. As soon
    as a voting quorum is present, we will proceed to a vote on
    Jeff Baran, President Biden's nominee to serve another term as
    Commissioner of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
        I want to pause for a moment to say a special thanks to you
    and to everybody who has worked to help shape the ADVANCE Act.
    We all know we need to provide, to meet our energy needs in
    this Country, we need to do it in a way that does not
    exacerbate the challenges that we face with respect to climate.
    Nuclear is a great compromise.
        I want to thank you very much for your work and members on
    both sides, and Sheldon, for your support as we have crafted
    this legislation.
        Senator Whitehouse. Happy to do it, Chairman.
        Senator Carper. Let me say a word or two if I can about
    Jeff Baran. Jeff Baran is a dedicated public servant who has
    served on the Nuclear Regulatory Commission since 2014.
    Throughout his time on the NRC, he has demonstrated his
    commitment to ensuring the safety and security of our Nation's
    use of nuclear energy and materials.
        Commissioner Baran has also advanced America's energy
    security and efforts to slow climate change through the
    Commission's work to establish the right regulatory framework
    for the safe licensing and operation of new carbon-free
    technologies. This includes the next generation of nuclear
    reactors and fusion energy systems.
        In addition, Commissioner Baran understands that his job is
    to serve the public, the people of this Country. He has focused
    on providing opportunities for engagement and input from all
    stakeholders, especially those in disadvantaged and underserved
    communities.
        Finally, maintaining a full slate of commissioners will
    help the NRC continue to carry out its responsibilities
    effectively and efficiently. With that in mind, I will vote yes
    on Jeff Baran's nomination. I urge my colleagues to do the
    same.
        With that said, Senator Capito, let me yield to you for
    anything you would like to share with us. Again, thank you for
    your leadership on this.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO,
              U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA

        Senator Capito. Thank you, Chairman Carper. I want to begin
    by saying the news we got over the week is happy/sad for us, to
    know that you are going to be joining Senator Cardin into a
    better life, and that is life after the Senate.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Capito. I do want to pay tribute to your service,
    but I will do that as we move through the year, because you are
    not going anywhere.
        Senator Carper. Many people have been so kind in the last
    week. If I had known folks were going to be that nice, I might
    have recessed earlier.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Capito. The one thing I will say is we have a lot
    in common. We are both native West Virginians, as we both
    remark about our love for our State. Also through your entire
    service, you have served on this committee. That is the same
    with me, although my service is much shorter than yours.
        I will move to the issues at hand. Nuclear energy is
    critical to strengthening our energy and national security,
    providing for energy reliability and achieving our
    environmental goals. Our geostrategic rivals are offering long-
    term nuclear energy deals to establish energy dependent
    relationships around the globe and dominate the nuclear energy
    landscape into the 21st century.
        America can and should lead in nuclear energy, and that is
    why I introduced the ADVANCE Act. The ADVANCE Act is
    bipartisan, with 16 cosponsors. The Chairman is on the bill,
    Senator Lummis, Senator Whitehouse, Senator Ricketts, Senator
    Cardin, Senator Graham and Senator Kelly, all members of this
    committee. It will assert America's global leadership in
    nuclear energy.
        The legislation will assist States like my home State of
    West Virginia to repurpose brownfields sites by deploying
    advanced nuclear reactors at previously developed facilities
    like decommissioned conventional power plants. The bill
    incentivizes nuclear innovators to rapidly develop new
    technologies.
        The bill requires the Nuclear Regulatory Commission to
    identify and resolve key regulatory issues like advanced
    manufacturing and construction techniques, advanced nuclear
    fuel licensing and non-electric uses of nuclear to enable
    greater use of technologies. It extends a key Federal policy to
    provide backstop insurance coverage to help deploy more nuclear
    energy. The bill reduces excess regulatory costs and cumbersome
    red tape.
        The Carper-Capito manager's amendment makes targeted
    improvements to the introduced bill based on the bipartisan
    feedback that we got from our colleagues. The amendment
    supports early licensing work to enable the deployment of
    advanced nuclear reactors at critical national security
    infrastructure sites. The amendment adds clarity to the NRC's
    new authority to hire and retain expert staff, to ensure
    licensing reviews are successfully completed.
        In short, the bipartisan ADVANCE Act will jumpstart the
    deployment of new, safe, and reliable nuclear technologies. As
    The ADVANCE Act moves forward, I hope we will continue to work
    together to incorporate additional bipartisan policies that
    arise to enable efficient, safe licensing reviews.
        The NRC is tasked with licensing and regulating nuclear
    material to ensure reasonable assurance of adequate protection
    of public health and safety, to promote the common defense and
    security, protect the environment, and improve the general
    welfare. Advancement of the NRC's important mission is why I so
    strongly support the aptly named ADVANCE Act, but why I oppose
    the other business item we are considering today, which is the
    renomination of Jeff Baran to serve as a commissioner.
        We stand at a pivotal moment, ready to accelerate the
    liftoff of new advanced reactors and renew American leadership
    in nuclear. Unfortunately, Commissioner Baran is not the right
    fit for this moment. NRC commissioners establish the standards
    and safety regulations to enable America's nuclear companies to
    fulfill our Nation's established nuclear energy policy goals.
        Since Commissioner Baran joined the Commission in 2014, he
    has pursued policies supporting his regulatory philosophy. That
    philosophy has frustrated, I believe, the mission of the NRC.
    He has called for unjustifiably increasing regulatory burdens
    and reducing regulatory predictability. His record supports
    ratcheting up regulations and associated compliance costs to
    really no useful end.
        During his renomination hearing, he tried to distance
    himself from that record, espousing priorities that are 180
    degrees removed from how he actually voted during his two terms
    as a commissioner.
        I am considering his renomination based on his record and
    continued service of Commissioner Baran on the Commission, in
    my view, would impede America's advancement toward a future of
    nuclear energy leadership to the benefit of Russia's and
    China's geostrategic plans, and would limit access to clean
    baseload generation at home and abroad.
        For these reasons, I cannot support and urge my colleagues
    to oppose Commissioner Baran's nomination. I thank the Chairman
    for scheduling this business meeting.
        Senator Carper. You bet. Happy to do it.
        Senator Capito. I would like unanimous consent to enter
    letters of support from more than 30 labor-environmental NGO's
    and business groups and a letter of support from American
    Nuclear Insurance.
        Senator Carper. Without objection, so ordered.
        [The referenced information follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Carper. We are awaiting the arrival of Senator
    Fetterman. We will vote right away on the nomination of the NRC
    Commissioner.
        I want to take just a minute until Senator Fetterman
    arrives here just to mention a couple of other things on the
    ADVANCE Act. As our Nation's largest source of reliable,
    carbon-free electricity, nuclear energy is critical to meeting
    our climate goals and maintaining our energy security.
        This bipartisan legislation will help the United States
    remain a clean energy leader by providing the certainty needed
    to safely deploy the next generation of nuclear reactors and
    fuels. The bill will also aid tribal communities and
    communities facing economic challenges associated with retired
    nuclear plants and stranded waste.
        Additionally, the ADVANCE Act will help ensure that the
    Nuclear Regulatory Commission has the tools and work force to
    keep our current reactors safe and to efficiently review new
    nuclear technologies.
        Preserving and expanding our Nation's use of clean and
    reliable nuclear energy is also essential for our economic and
    for our national security interests. This bill will help
    strengthen the U.S. nuclear supply chain infrastructure and
    will support the export of American nuclear technologies,
    benefiting the domestic industrial base and filling a vacuum
    that would likely otherwise be filled by China and Russia.
        I thank Senator Capito and Senator Whitehouse again for
    their leadership and collaboration on this legislation. I want
    to thank everybody on this committee who has participated in
    crafting this bipartisan legislation. I urge our colleagues to
    join us in voting yes on this bill.
        We are still awaiting the arrival of Senator Fetterman.
    Senator Whitehouse, please.
        Senator Whitehouse. Let me just say some quick thanks to
    you, and to Ranking Member Capito. I think this is the fourth
    nuclear reform bill that I have worked on in a bipartisan
    fashion. I want to recognize Senator Barrasso and Senator
    Crapo, who have done good work in this space as well. Senator
    Capito has really been a terrific partner and I want to thank
    her for this.
        Chairman, your work has been really exemplary, not only
    supporting us in the design of the bill but also putting
    together the manager's amendment that will enhance smooth
    passage forward of the measure. Much appreciation to the both
    of you. Let's hope for a good day on the committee.
        Senator Carper. All right. Senator Sanders?
        Senator Sanders. Senator Carper, any way that we could
    start the vote?
        Senator Carper. Yes, we are going to start the vote on the
    ADVANCE Act, I think. Okay. I now call up S. 1111, the ADVANCE
    Act. In early April, I joined Senator Capito and Senator
    Whitehouse in co-leading the introduction of the bipartisan
    ADVANCE Act.
        Over the following weeks, Senator Capito and I worked to
    refine that legislation, with the help of a lot of you. Those
    refinements are embodied in an amendment in the nature of a
    substitute, which I circulated yesterday morning. This
    amendment represents non-controversial changes from the
    legislation as introduced. By unanimous consent, the Carper-
    Capito amendment in the nature of a substitute is considered to
    be the base text for the purpose of today's markup.
        Is there any objection? Hearing none, so ordered.
        [The text of the amendment follows:]

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        Senator Carper. Does any Senator wish to offer an amendment
    to this legislation?
        Senator Lummis. Mr. Chairman?
        Senator Carper. Yes, please.
        Senator Lummis. I would like to call up Lummis Amendment
    No. 1. This amendment is simple. It clarifies that two Federal
    agencies should not be doing the exact same environmental
    analysis on a project. This is a classic example of government
    waste and duplicity.
        In my home State of Wyoming, we are having this TerraPower
    project that is planned to build a new advanced reactor called
    Natrium at a retired coal-fired power plant in Kemmerer,
    Wyoming. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission is already licensing
    this site and doing the NEPA analysis.
        Unfortunately, a totally new office at the Department of
    Energy, the Office of Clean Energy Development, established
    under the recent Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, stepped in and
    asserted that they needed to do their own environmental
    analysis of the project, rather than deferring to the NRC. This
    is duplicative. It is wasteful, and an unnecessary delay of a
    project that I believe both sides support.
        I will not be requesting a vote on this amendment, but I do
    hope to highlight exactly why permitting reform is necessary. I
    am proud to support the underlying bill as a cosponsor. I
    appreciate Ranking Member Capito and her staff as well as you,
    Mr. Chairman, for your work on this legislation.
        I withdraw my amendment.
        Senator Carper. Thank you so much.
        Other amendments, please? Hearing none, the Clerk will call
    the roll on the ADVANCE Act, please.
        The Clerk. Mr. Boozman?
        Senator Boozman. Yes.
        The Clerk. Ms. Capito?
        Senator Capito. Yes.
        The Clerk. Mr. Cardin?
        Senator Cardin. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Cramer?
        Senator Cramer. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Fetterman?
        Senator Carper. Aye by proxy.
        The Clerk. Mr. Graham?
        Senator Capito. Aye by proxy.
        The Clerk. Mr. Kelly?
        Senator Kelly. Aye.
        The Clerk. Ms. Lummis?
        Senator Lummis. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Markey?
        Senator Markey. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Merkley?
        Senator Merkley. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Mullin?
        Senator Mullin. Yes.
        The Clerk. Mr. Padilla?
        Senator Padilla. Yes.
        The Clerk. Mr. Ricketts?
        Senator Ricketts. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Sanders?
        Senator Carper. No, by proxy.
        The Clerk. Ms. Stabenow?
        Senator Stabenow. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Sullivan?
        Senator Capito. Aye by proxy.
        The Clerk. Mr. Whitehouse?
        Senator Whitehouse. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Wicker?
        Senator Wicker. Yes.
        The Clerk. Mr. Chairman?
        Senator Carper. Aye.
        The Clerk will report.
        The Clerk. Mr. Chairman, the yeas are 16, the nays are 3.
        Senator Carper. The legislation has been favorably
    reported. I am grateful to everyone who came and stayed. We
    still have some work ahead of us on the Nuclear Regulatory
    Commission nominee. Maybe we can take care of that off the
    floor today. We will see if that can be worked out. That would
    be good.
        I think we can probably let people go now. For anyone who
    wants to stay and make statements for the record, you are more
    than welcome. Anybody who wants to stay and share remarks, that
    will be fine. Senator Markey, I understand you may have
    something you would like to say. You are more than welcome to
    do that.
        Senator Markey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, very much. I
    understand, Mr. Chairman, that this legislation is important to
    many members of the committee. We should not give a boost to
    the nuclear industry without commensurately confronting the
    longstanding issues of how to deal with nuclear waste and
    nuclear decommissioning.
        Senator Carper. The hearing will be in order, please.
        Senator Markey. If we support new plants with reactors
    without addressing the needs of operating reactors and affected
    communities, we will be adding radioactive fuel to a fire and
    making our existing problems worse.
        The ADVANCE Act takes unprecedented steps to have the
    Nuclear Regulatory Commission promote nuclear exports, not
    simply nuclear safety, which is its core mission, all to prop
    up the ailing U.S. nuclear industry at home and abroad. I
    remain deeply concerned about this extension of the Nuclear
    Regulatory Commission's mission. It is supposed to be a
    regulator.
        Other agencies are supposed to be promoting American
    commerce. That is not the job of the Nuclear Regulatory
    Commission. Its job is to promote safety, it is to ensure these
    plants are safe.
        That is what happened back in 1974, we broke the Nuclear
    Regulatory Commission off from the Atomic Energy Commission, so
    there would be separate missions, separate goals, separate
    responsibilities. Now to turn the Nuclear Regulatory Commission
    into an agency that is promoting a technology it is supposed to
    be regulating begins to blur this role, especially as we are
    talking about exports overseas.
        I am also concerned that in Section 103 of this legislation
    it could allow the NRC to skirt the critical non-proliferation
    safeguards in this bill, and unilaterally approve an export
    license for foreign countries to receive nuclear materials.
    That could present a significant non-proliferation risk and put
    a domestic nuclear safety agency in charge of important
    national security decisions.
        With all due respect to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission,
    the Commission was never meant to be in the business of
    deciding if Saudi Arabia gets nuclear materials. We are
    blurring the historic role that this agency plays. This
    legislation is not wise. We have to keep these lines strong.
        Moreover, I am concerned that Section 104 has an overly
    expansive definition of embarking civil nuclear nations. We
    need to be much more cautious when exporting such risky and
    dangerous technologies. While some of the bill's supporters
    argue we need new nuclear technologies to combat the climate
    crisis, I have an arched eyebrow as to why this bill focuses
    solely on nuclear energy and not on other zero-emissions
    technologies, such as wind and solar and geothermal, which is
    what our Country should be promoting around the rest of the
    world.
        It is also shortsighted to me to make such a Herculean
    effort to promote new nuclear technologies when we are yet to
    solve the longstanding problems resulting from our existing
    nuclear fleet. To this day, the Navajo Nation is dealing with a
    legacy of uranium contamination, including more than 500
    abandoned uranium mines, and homes and water sources polluted
    with elevated levels of radiation.
        While Section 405 of the ADVANCE Act acknowledges this
    ongoing concern, the funding authorized in this legislation
    will not address the full legacy of radioactive pollution.
    Providing a capped level of authorized funding for communities
    dealing with this radioactive legacy contrasts greatly with
    Section 202 of the bill, which allows for nuclear companies to
    receive an uncapped award for licensing costs.
        It is deeply disappointing to me that we are capping costs
    for cleanup, but not capping prizes for technologies that will
    likely rely on uranium, which caused this pollution in the
    first place.
        Additionally, while this bill provides some funding to
    assist communities impacted by the closure of impending nuclear
    power plants, it does not include legislative proposals that
    would fully address the concerns of communities struggling to
    overcome the social and economic burden of indefinitely hosting
    stranded nuclear waste, when there is no long-term storage
    solution in sight.
        Our communities have become de facto nuclear storage
    facilities, endangering them, their families, and the
    environment. These communities, including those in
    Massachusetts around the Pilgrim Nuclear Power Station, deserve
    more funding, a meaningful say in the decommissioning process,
    and a real pathway to consent-based, long-term storage for our
    Nation's spent nuclear fuel.
        That is why I have supported and introduced legislation in
    the past like the Nuclear Waste Task Force Act and the Dry
    Storage Act and Senator Sanders' Nuclear Plant Decommissioning
    Act.
        Chairman Carper, I want to work with you as we move forward
    between here the floor. I think that there are many problems
    with this legislation. There are real nuclear non-proliferation
    issues here. We know that there are countries around the world,
    including Saudi Arabia, that have potential instability and we
    do not want to wind up in a situation where nuclear power
    plants have been sold to North Korea, which then turn into
    nuclear bomb factories, or nuclear power plants that have been
    sold to Iraq, which then turn into nuclear bomb factories.
        Or in the instance of Iran, we were going to sell six
    nuclear plants to Iran in the late 1970's, and had already
    finished that deal before the Shah of Iran fell. Can you
    imagine if they had six nuclear power plants that had already
    been constructed with U.S. aid in the 1970's before the Shah
    fell? That is what we are talking about here.
        I just want to make sure we understand that as we are going
    to become nuclear Johnny Appleseeds and encouraging the Nuclear
    Regulatory Commission to be promoting this nuclear technology
    around the world, with lower safeguards in terms of what the
    protections are, then yes, in the short term, the nuclear
    industry will reap the financial benefits of it. Inevitably,
    inexorably, the world will reap the whirlwind, and the next
    ayatollah or equivalent somewhere in the world would then have
    access to the nuclear materials that could hold the whole world
    hostage.
        From my perspective, I just think a lot more thought has to
    go into this legislation. Safeguards have to be included. I
    just want to have an opportunity to be able to work with you,
    Mr. Chairman, and the Ranking Member, to build in those
    safeguards.
        Senator Carper. Thank you, Senator Markey.
        Let me say, while I do not fully agree with your
    characterization of the legislation, I hear your concerns. Your
    staff has shared those with us as well, and shared those
    concerns with Senator Capito's staff. We look forward to
    finding, if we can, ways to address our Nation's growing
    nuclear spent fuel and ways to ensure that we have an effective
    and efficient decommissioning process that helps us safely when
    needed to close a nuclear site. I commit to working with you on
    those issues.
        Senator Merkley.
        Senator Merkley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think my
    colleague from Massachusetts has laid out and summarized more
    eloquently than I can concerns that I do have. I do want to
    emphasize that blurring the distinction between export
    promotion and nuclear safety is a huge mistake.
        We have nations that very much want nuclear technology, and
    my colleagues has mentioned Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia does not
    want the gold standard, they do not want international
    supervision. We have to remember that there is a Shi'ite force,
    major force, in the Islamic world, and there is a Sunni force.
    Those two countries, Iran and Saudi Arabia, are in competition
    with each other.
        Here we are, putting extraordinary restrictions on Iran,
    which I have supported, although I would have liked to have
    seen the deal that really dismantled their operations
    sustained, a massive mistake that increased risks in the world,
    for the Trump Administration to exit that agreement.
        We seem to feel like there is some massive difference with
    Saudi Arabia. We should remember that there is no way Iran is
    not going to pursue a weapon if Saudi Arabia is pursuing a
    weapon. Saudi Arabia is much more on that track than Iran is,
    ironically. They are also developing the missiles to deliver
    it.
        We should be very careful about taking a safety
    organization that has integrity, that has responsibility, that
    has clarity on safety and say that they should promote the
    export of nuclear technology. There are far more complicated
    issues in the world. We should not blur that distinction.
        Saudi Arabia is not on the banned list here, and there is
    no condition about the gold standard that we have previously
    promoted if we were to export, so that we would not end up
    essentially putting them on the track that we are saying that
    Iran, that we do not want Iran to go down.
        I have supported the development of small nuclear reactors,
    knowing that we have solved neither the nuclear weapon nor the
    dirty bomb problem, simply because I felt like the research on
    an ultimate safe reactor was extremely important in a world in
    which we are facing climate change. How and when these are
    deployed, when they could create risks in international affairs
    that include dirty bomb risks and nuclear bomb risks, should
    never be confused with the issue of safety done by the nuclear
    agency, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
        I share a lot of my colleague's concerns.
        Senator Carper. I thank you both for your thoughtful
    comments. I yield to the author of the legislation, Senator
    Capito.
        Senator Capito. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I take the
    gentleman's concerns into consideration. We had a very
    overwhelming vote in committee, 16 to 3. I think that shows the
    desire of the members of the committee to move forward on this
    technology and to move forward on the development of the
    technologies. I mentioned in my statement that we will be
    hopefully working this bill further, as hopefully we can get to
    the floor, and we will have conversations with your staffs.
        I would say the mission of the Nuclear Regulatory
    Commission is safety. That is No. 1. Any time they are before
    our committee, any time we have talked with them, that is their
    No. 1 mission. They espouse it, not just espouse it, practice
    it, and verbalize that every single time they are in front of
    our committee. I am sure with the ADVANCE Act that would be
    front and center as well.
        I do think that if we as a country can become the chief
    technologist, the chief developer, the chief innovator of these
    smaller, modular reactors, we can lead the world. We can put
    safeguards in, if that is what the desire of the committee
    would be.
        I appreciate your concern. I know the waste is a concern. I
    do think, and remember where I am from, I am from a State that
    generates a lot of natural gas and coal and has for 100 years
    at least. Every day I hear how everything needs to be cleaner
    and greener. This technology would lead us to that, and provide
    us with a baseload energy source and could recommission areas
    in my State and other States, thereby helping us with job loss
    and other things that are connected with it as we are moving
    forward.
        Let's just keep working on it together. I appreciate your
    staying later and giving us your thoughts. Thank you.
        Senator Carper. Senator Markey.
        Senator Markey. The problem is this. There is a dual
    identity to nuclear energy. In the hands of some, it has this
    incredible ability to generate electricity. It has this
    unfortunate side product of uranium and plutonium.
        In the eyes of others, it has this incredible ability to
    give access to plutonium and uranium, but it has a wonderful
    side benefit of electricity as well. That is what those
    countries, those individuals, will be trying to focus on.
        We have to be very careful, because of its dual identity.
    We have not solved the nuclear waste problem in our own
    country. We do not want uranium and plutonium in other
    countries in the world without full scope safeguards. If we are
    going to be exporting and we are going to be promoting these
    technologies, then we have to promote the gold standard. We
    have to promote full scope safeguards.
        That is where we need the leadership. We are not going to
    be the leader on the technology, but we can be the leader on
    the values that we attach to the technology, the standards that
    we attach to the technologies, the goals that we have for our
    planet and our society for these technologies. That is what is
    missing here.
        I just want to make sure that as we are going forward that
    we have a full discussion about that. We have to be speaking
    with a loud, clear voice about what our expectations are, not
    just for ourselves but for the rest of the world as they
    compete with us. We can not have them continually lowering
    their standard, and we are going to lower ours as well in terms
    of those safeguards, because then we just become nuclear
    merchants out on the road hawking our wares.
        Ultimately, at some point, maybe not 5 years from now or 10
    or 15 or 20, there will be unfortunately a compromise of this
    technology. Then that generation will have to deal with the
    fact that we didn't build in the safeguards up front.
        I am looking forward to working with you.
        Senator Carper. Both Senator Capito and I and our staffs
    are looking forward to working with you. I want to thank both
    you and Senator Merkley for your thoughtful comments.
        In closing, I would say achieving our economy-wide
    decarbonization goals requires a diverse set of solutions, as
    we know. Nuclear energy has an important role to play in that
    regard.
        The ADVANCE Act builds on the actions we have taken through
    the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and the Inflation Reduction
    Act to preserve and expand our Nation's use of nuclear energy.
    This bill is, I believe, an exciting step forward. I thank
    Senator Capito and her team very much for their leadership and
    collaboration on this important piece with Senator Whitehouse,
    my staff, and myself. I look forward to working with our Senate
    colleagues to pass this legislation, make it better if we can,
    and send it to the President's desk.
        Finally, I would like to ask unanimous consent to submit
    additional materials relating to the morning's votes into the
    record, including letters of support for the ADVANCE Act of
    2023.
        [The referenced material was not submitted in time for
    print.]
        Senator Carper. I also ask unanimous consent that the staff
    has the authority to make the technical and conforming changes
    to each of the matters approved today.
        Is there objection? Hearing none, with that, this business
    meeting is adjourned. Thank you all.
        [Whereupon, at 10:20 a.m., the business meeting was
    adjourned.]

                                 [all]