[Senate Hearing 118-394]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                      S. Hrg. 118-394

                          PENDING LEGISLATION

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                            SUBCOMMITTEE ON 
                   PUBLIC LANDS, FORESTS, AND MINING

                                 OF THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                                   on


			S. 2156      S. 3617     S. 4432
			S. 3123      S. 3790     S. 4449
			S. 3148      S. 3870     S. 4451
			S. 3322      S. 3985     S. 4454
			S. 3346      S. 4310     S. 4456
			S. 3593      S. 4424     S. 4457
			S. 3596      S. 4431



                               ----------                              

                             JUNE 12, 2024

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[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]                               


                       Printed for the use of the
               Committee on Energy and Natural Resources

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                                __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------     
 
               COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES

                JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia, Chairman
RON WYDEN, Oregon                    JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington           JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont             MIKE LEE, Utah
MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico          STEVE DAINES, Montana
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine            JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada       BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado       CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
ALEX PADILLA, California             JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
                                 ------                                

           Subcommittee on Public Lands, Forests, and Mining

                     CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Chair

RON WYDEN                            MIKE LEE
MARTIN HEINRICH                      JAMES E. RISCH
MAZIE K. HIRONO                      STEVE DAINES
ANGUS S. KING, JR.                   LISA MURKOWSKI
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER                 BILL CASSIDY
ALEX PADILLA                         JOSH HAWLEY

                      Renae Black, Staff Director
                      Sam E. Fowler, Chief Counsel
                     David Brooks, General Counsel
                   Katie Roberts, Research Assistant
              Justin J. Memmott, Republican Staff Director
           Patrick J. McCormick III, Republican Chief Counsel
        John Tanner, Republican Deputy Staff Director for Lands
                           
                           
                           C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
Cortez Masto, Hon. Catherine, Subcommittee Chair and a U.S. 
  Senator from Nevada............................................     1
Lee, Hon. Mike, Subcommittee Ranking Member a U.S. Senator from 
  Utah...........................................................     3
Murkowski, Hon. Lisa, a U.S. Senator from Alaska.................     4
Wyden, Hon. Ron, a U.S. Senator from Oregon......................     6

                               WITNESSES

Kelleher, Karen, Deputy Director, State Operations, Bureau of 
  Land Management, U.S. Department of the Interior...............     7
Heithecker, Troy, Associate Deputy Chief, National Forest System, 
  U.S. Forest Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture............    38
Davis, Tess, Assistant Attorney General, State of Utah...........    56

          ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

American Farm Bureau Federation:
    Letter for the Record........................................   100
American Rivers:
    Letter for the Record........................................   102
American Sportfishing Association:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   104
American Whitewater:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   106
Backcountry Hunters and Anglers:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   112
Barrasso, Hon. John:
    Photograph of Teton Pass highway collapse....................    65
    Wall Street Journal Article entitled ``Section of Wyoming's 
      Teton Pass Collapses'' by Ginger Adams Otis, published on 
      June 9, 2024...............................................    66
Brekhus, Jenny:
    Correspondence for the Record................................   115
Clark County (NV) Board of Commissioners:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   990
Colorado Department of Natural Resources:
    Letter for the Record........................................    76
Conservation Lands Foundation and Friends of Nevada Wilderness:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   116
Conservation Lands Foundation et al.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   120
Cortez Masto, Hon. Catherine:
    Opening Statement............................................     1
Davis, Tess:
    Opening Statement............................................    56
    Written Testimony............................................    58
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    71
Friends of Routt Backcountry:
    Letter for the Record........................................    91
Gallatin River Task Force:
    Letter for the Record........................................   123
Greater Yellowstone Coalition:
    Letter for the Record........................................   125
Great Old Broads for Wilderness, Northwest Colorado Chapter:
    Letter for the Record........................................    92
Hayden, CO (Town of):
    Letter for the Record........................................    94
Heithecker, Troy:
    Opening Statement............................................    38
    Written Testimony............................................    40
Hickenlooper, Hon. John W.:
    Statement for the Record.....................................    75
Horne, Devin:
    Correspondence for the Record................................   644
Incline Village General Improvement District:
    Letter for the Record........................................   645
Kelleher, Karen:
    Opening Statement............................................     7
    Written Testimony............................................     9
Kuhlman, Russell:
    Correspondence for the Record................................   647
Las Vegas Paiute Tribe:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   648
League to Save Lake Tahoe:
    Letter for the Record........................................   122
Lee, Hon. Mike:
    Opening Statement............................................     3
    Statements of support for S. 3148............................   127
Montanans for Healthy Rivers:
    Letter for the Record with 251 pages of attached supporting 
      materials..................................................   657
Montana Outfitters and Guides Association:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   651
    Letter for the Record........................................   653
Montana Wildlife Federation:
    Letter for the Record........................................   655
Murkowski, Hon. Lisa:
    Opening Statement............................................     4
NAIOP Nevada:
    Letter for the Record........................................   911
Nevada Builders Alliance:
    Letter for the Record........................................   913
Nevada Cattlemen's Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................   914
Nevada Farm Bureau Federation:
    Letter for the Record........................................   916
NV Energy:
    Letter for the Record on S. 4457.............................   919
    Letter for the Record on S. 3593.............................   921
Oak Creek, CO (Town of):
    Letter for the Record........................................    95
Oldenbrook, Brad:
    Correspondence for the Record................................   926
Oregon Wild et al.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   927
Outdoor Alliance:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   931
RCG Economics:
    Report entitled ``Northern Nevada Vacant Land Analysis: 
      Inventory and Implications for Economic Growth and 
      Development'' prepared for the Economic Development 
      Authority of Western Nevada, December 2021.................   940
Regional Transportation Commission:
    Letter for the Record........................................   988
Rocky Mountain Wild:
    Letter for the Record........................................    96
Roman, Siri:
    Statement for the Record with attachments....................    77
Rosen, Hon. Jacky:
    Letter for the Record........................................    73
Routt County, CO:
    Letter for the Record........................................    97
Sagebrush Habitat Conservation Fund:
    Letter for the Record........................................   989
Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance:
    Letter for the Record........................................  1000
Sparks, NV (city of):
    Letter for the Record........................................   649
Steamboat Springs, CO (City of):
    Letter for the Record........................................    99
Tahoe Regional Planning Agency:
    Letter for the Record........................................  1001
350 Montana et al.:
    Statement for the Record.....................................  1002
Truckee River Flood Management Authority:
    Letter for the Record........................................  1012
U.S. Department of the Interior, Office of Surface Mining 
  Reclamation and Enforcement:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   923
Washoe County (NV) Board of Commissioners:
    Statement for the Record.....................................  1013
Washoe Tribe of Nevada and California:
    Letter for the Record........................................  1015
Western Watersheds Project:
    Letter for the Record........................................  1016
Western Watersheds Project et al.:
    Statement for the Record.....................................  1017
Wild and Scenic Rivers Coalition:
    Letter for the Record........................................  1021
(The) Wilderness Society:
    Statement for the Record.....................................  1024
Wilderness Watch:
    Statement for the Record on S. 3593 and S. 4457..............  1030
    Statement for the Record on S. 4454..........................  1037
Wyden, Hon. Ron:
    Opening Statement............................................     6

----------
The text for each of the bills addressed in this hearing can be found 
on the Committee's website at: https://www.energy.senate.gov/hearings/
2024/6/public-lands-forests-and-mining-subcommittee-hearing-to-receive-
testimony-on-pending-legislation

 
                          PENDING LEGISLATION

                              ----------                              


                        WEDNESDAY, JUNE 12, 2024

                               U.S. Senate,
 Subcommittee on Public Lands, Forests, and Mining,
                 Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:36 p.m. in 
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Catherine 
Cortez Masto, Chair of the Subcommittee, presiding.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, U.S. SENATOR 
                          FROM NEVADA

    Senator Cortez Masto. The Subcommittee hearing on Public 
Lands, Mining, and Forestry will come to order.
    We have a full agenda this afternoon, with 20 bills 
representing priorities of members on both sides of the aisle, 
including several members of this Committee. Most of the bills 
on today's agenda are state-specific. Many of the more 
comprehensive land bills are the product of years of on-the-
ground work to try and develop a local consensus on the 
appropriate balance of the many competing priorities for use of 
our public lands.
    After members of the Committee have an opportunity to 
provide opening statements, we will then hear from 
representatives of the Bureau of Land Management and Forest 
Service, who will provide the Administration's testimony on the 
bills, and from a witness invited by Ranking Member Lee, to 
comment on bills particular to his home state. Before 
concluding, I would like to make just a few remarks on the 
bills that I support and are of particular interest to 
constituents in my home State of Nevada.
    S. 4457 is the Southern Nevada Economic Development 
Conservation Act. I have sponsored it, and commonly referred to 
it as the Clark County Lands bill. It was crafted with input 
from the county, conservationists, city officials, business 
leaders, tribal leaders, and wildlife and recreation interests. 
Las Vegas is unique from other states and localities in that 
its urban core is encircled by federal land that inherently 
creates impediments to coordinated, sustainable growth and 
development, local conservation efforts, and local planning to 
promote economic diversification. In fact, 90 percent of all 
land in Clark County is administered by federal agencies. 
Federal legislative action is necessary to help support local 
and state economic diversification plans and conservation 
efforts and to allow for sustainable growth and climate action 
plans. This bill will facilitate more efficient land and water 
resource management, allowing for responsible growth in Clark 
County, providing the county and its municipalities with the 
resources and support necessary to create more affordable 
housing, provide a supportive environment for small business 
growth, combat climate change, and protect our outdoor 
recreation areas while also maintaining our responsibility to 
preserve our wildlife habitats and endangered species.
    Specifically, this bill facilitates orderly and predictable 
growth over the long term through a joint county-BLM nomination 
process to facilitate expected population growth and economic 
diversification needs. While making certain federal lands 
available for future residential and affordable housing and 
economic development priorities, my bill also meets several 
other local priorities. It conveys over 48,000 acres of land to 
the Moapa Band of Paiutes and Las Vegas Paiute Tribe to 
strengthen local tribal sovereignty and facilitate future 
economic opportunities. It designates over 120,000 acres 
specifically for off-highway vehicle recreation. It expands the 
popular Red Rock Canyon and Sloan Canyon National Conservation 
Areas by nearly 66,000 acres to further preserve the landscape 
and enhance outdoor recreation. It sets aside 359,000 acres 
specifically to preserve desert species habitat conservation. 
It conserves an additional 324,000 acres of new wilderness in 
Clark County and it designates 1.3 million acres of wilderness 
within the Desert National Wildlife Refuge. The bill is a well-
balanced approach that fulfills several priorities and land 
management needs across Southern Nevada.
    The next bill I would like to talk about is S. 3593. This 
is the Truckee Meadows Public Lands Management Act. It is of 
high importance to communities in Northern Nevada. I am 
thankful for my colleague, Senator Jacky Rosen, for her 
leadership on this bill. I am a co-sponsor of her bill. 
Beginning in 2016, the cities of Reno and Sparks expressed 
interest in developing public lands legislation to address the 
management of the land in Washoe County while promoting 
economic development and housing opportunities. After nearly 
eight years of negotiations with local stakeholders, S. 3593 is 
the result of those efforts. It conserves approximately 948,385 
acres total of public lands in Washoe County. It directs the 
land management agencies to dispose of approximately 15,860 
acres of federal land for economic development and affordable 
housing purposes.
    And then finally, the last bill I want to talk about is S. 
3870. This is the Slip-on Tanks for Tribes Act. This bill 
amends section 40803 of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law to 
clarify that Indian tribes are eligible for the Interior 
Department's grant program created by the law to provide 
financial assistance to local governments for the purchase of 
slip-on tanker units. Slip-on tanker units, if you don't know, 
are generally fitted to a pick-up truck, and can hold between 
50 to 500 gallons of water and cost significantly less than a 
traditional fire engine. Use of these slip-on tanks can help 
rural and remote communities quickly respond to wildfires 
before a larger response effort arrives or otherwise is needed.
    So with that, at this time, I would like to recognize 
Senator Lee for his opening statement.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE LEE, 
                     U.S. SENATOR FROM UTAH

    Senator Lee. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thanks to our 
witnesses for joining us today.
    Today we are considering several critical pieces of 
legislation, including two of my bills. First, I would like to 
highlight S. 3596, a bill that makes a technical correction in 
the Mineral Leasing Act by correcting the use of the term 
gilsonite to its official scientific name, asphaltite. I know 
that's an issue near and dear to most Americans. They want to 
make sure we are using the scientific term. The overlap between 
the generic name and the patented name causes some undue legal 
ambiguity, and in some circumstances, can be problematic. The 
situation can be compared a little bit to using the term 
Velcro, which is the name of a company's product, and is used 
as a general term, instead of hook-and-loop fasteners. Foreign 
companies, particularly in Iran, have tended to exploit this 
ambiguity by labeling their chemically inferior product as 
generic ``gilsonite'' and then undercutting the market for the 
patented product ``Gilsonite.'' Correcting the name in the 
Mineral Leasing Act protects against trademark infringement and 
helps ensure that the quality of the asphaltite in the United 
States maintains a consistently high standard. This is a good 
governance bill, one that will help us get it to the point 
where we can align the generic term asphaltite with the other 
generic mineral terms that are typically the ones used in the 
Mineral Leasing Act.
    Next, I would like to turn to S. 3148, the Historic 
Roadways Protection Act, a bill of profound importance to our 
western heritage and the communities that rely on these 
historic routes. Revised Statute 2477, commonly known as R.S. 
2477, was enacted as part of the Mining Act of 1866, and it 
granted ``the right-of-way for the construction of highways 
over public lands not reserved for public uses.'' For over a 
century, this law facilitated the development of thousands of 
roads providing vital connections across the West. My home 
State of Utah alone, just Utah, has nearly 13,000 roads that 
were established under R.S. 2477, weaving a network that 
supports not just transportation, but also all forms of 
economic activity, essential access, and exploration of our 
remarkable landscapes.
    The Federal Land Policy and Management Act, commonly known 
as FLPMA, repealed R.S. 2477 non-retroactively in 1976. I say 
non-retroactively because it preserved existing rights-of-way 
that were in existence as of the date of the repeal. However, 
FLPMA did not provide detailed procedures and mechanisms for 
proving and adjudicating or recording these rights, which led 
to prolonged litigation and challenges. This has been a lengthy 
and arduous process involving multiple lawsuits and significant 
delays, all while the integrity of these historic roadways 
continues to deteriorate. The Historic Roadways Protection Act, 
S. 3148, safeguards these essential pathways until their legal 
status can be definitively adjudicated. It ensures that current 
conditions are maintained, preventing further closures and 
degradation by federal agencies that could irreparably harm our 
ability to validate the routes.
    The legislation is not just about preserving our historic 
roadways. It is about that, but it is also about maintaining 
the lifelines that connect our communities, that support our 
rural economies, and grant access to the natural wonders of the 
West. I would like to acknowledge the overwhelming support this 
bill has received from the community. My office has received 
over 700 individual statements of support for the bill, 
demonstrating the broad and deep appreciation for the value 
these historic roadways provide. I also request that these 
statements be entered into the record.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Without objection.
    [The statements referred to appear in the appendix, on 
pages 127-643.]
    Senator Lee. I also want to take a moment to introduce and 
thank Tess Davis, the Assistant Attorney General for the State 
of Utah, who is here to testify in support of the bill. Ms. 
Davis has been instrumental in overseeing Utah's very 
substantial, complex, and very necessary R.S. 2477 litigation 
efforts, and she brings invaluable expertise to this hearing. 
So we are grateful for her dedication and her insights and look 
forward to hearing from her today.
    The Historic Roadways Protection Act is vital to ensuring 
that our heritage and our infrastructure will be preserved for 
future generations. I urge my colleagues to support this 
essential legislation, reinforcing our commitment to the 
communities and the landscapes that define the American West.
    Now, Senator Sullivan is unable to be here today to offer 
testimony, but he has asked that I convey his strong support 
for his legislation, S. 3790, the Alaska Native Vietnam Era 
Veterans Allotment Extension. I am sure that equates to a 
clever acronym. I haven't figured out what that is yet, but he 
can tell us about it and the program that the bill would 
extend.
    Thank you.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Senator Murkowski.

           OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LISA MURKOWSKI, 
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM ALASKA

    Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Madam Chair, and to the 
Ranking Member, I appreciate the Subcommittee taking up the 
bills on the agenda today. I would like to address three of 
them that I am sponsoring--co-sponsoring.
    The first is S. 4310, which is the Chugach Alaska Land 
Exchange and Oil Spill Recovery Act. As most will remember 
1989, one of the worst environmental disasters in history 
occurred with the Exxon Valdez oil spill, and that spill 
devastated the Chugach region on many levels, not just 
environmentally, but socially and economically. The government 
recovery efforts, though well-intentioned, also had negative 
impacts and did not always include the voices of the Alaska 
Native people who had stewarded these lands for millennia. The 
people of this region and the environment are still recovering 
35 years later.
    In 2019, I added a provision to the Dingell Act to require 
the Interior Department, in coordination with Forest Service 
and in consultation with Chugach, Alaska, the regional 
corporation, to analyze the impacts of the oil spills and the 
government recovery efforts in the region, and this included 
the Exxon Valdez Oil Spill Trustee Council, which spent nearly 
75 percent of a $900 million civil settlement fund to acquire 
650,000 acres of land as protected habitat, approximately 
241,000 acres of which were removed from native ownership. 
Placing these lands in federal ownership and then in restricted 
status for habitat protection and conservation effectively 
prohibits Chugach from taking steps to develop its subsurface 
interests under these same lands. These actions also 
significantly reduce native ownership and voices in the region, 
and thus, Chugach cannot fully realize the economic benefits of 
their entitlements under ANCSA. So my bill directs a fair land 
exchange between Chugach, Alaska and the Federal Government 
that addresses that report's findings, permanently conserves 
the oil spill program lands, and provides Chugach and its 
shareholders a fair resolution of their ANCSA claims.
    The next bill is S. 3617, the Cape Fox Land Entitlement 
Finalization Act. This bill waives an existing statutory 
requirement in ANCSA that restricted Cape Fox Corporation from 
making selections within six miles of the boundary of the city 
of Ketchikan to allow for the conveyance of the surface estate 
to a 180-acre tract in the Tongass National Forest. Conveyance 
of this tract would allow Cape Fox to consolidate its 
landholdings in the area and ultimately connect the Mahoney 
Lake hydropower site to the Beaver Falls power grid.
    And then the final bill is one which Senator Lee just 
mentioned, which Senator Sullivan is leading on. This is S. 
3790, the Alaska Native Vietnam Era Veterans Land Allotment 
Extension and Fulfillment Act, and I don't think there is an 
acronym, but we should probably come up with one. Senator 
Sullivan and I worked to include in the Dingell Act, in 2019, a 
new program to enable Alaska Native Vietnam Vets to finally 
select the land allotments they missed out on while serving 
their country. But unfortunately, we had partisan objections to 
making certain lands available for selection during our 2019 
process, and as a direct result of that, far, far too many of 
our veterans have been unable to select allotments in the 
region. So this bill would open up for selection Fish and 
Wildlife Refuge lands identified by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife 
Service and require the Forest Service to similarly identify 
lands for selection. I am disappointed that the Forest Service, 
as an agency, and others have pushed back on identifying Forest 
Service lands for selections, particularly in an Administration 
that claims to be on the side of native peoples. All I say is 
that this is your chance to prove it here.
    In Southeast Alaska alone, there are about 500 Alaska 
Native veterans who have not filed for allotments because there 
are no lands whatsoever where they live available for 
selection. If you live in Angoon, and I heard this just this 
weekend, you don't want your native allotment in Tok. This is 
hundreds of miles across the State of Alaska. It makes no 
sense, great personal expense, directly away from your 
ancestral homelands to lands that you don't know and you do not 
have any ties to. What we are asking for is that there be a 
reasonable solution here. These veterans want lands that they 
have hunted and fished on for millennia. They deserve it, and 
it would amount to a very small part of the overall land base. 
Lastly, the bill extends the existing program for another five 
years, as it has taken far too long to even identify the 
eligible veterans and get applications started. We are not on 
track to do right by them in time under the current program, so 
we need to extend it.
    All three of these bills right wrongs for Alaska Native 
peoples and are well supported. I am hopeful that we can move 
them quickly through the Committee and the Senate, and I thank 
the Chairman and the Ranking Member.
    Senator Cortez Masto. If there are no other opening 
statements by members of the Committee, we will get to the 
panel members. At this time, I would like to introduce our 
witness panel.
    Providing the Administration's testimony are Ms. Karen 
Kelleher, the Deputy Director for State Operations at the 
Bureau of Land Management; Mr. Troy Heithecker, the Associate 
Deputy Chief for the National Forest System at the U.S. Forest 
Service; and also testifying, as we have heard, is Miss Tess 
Davis, the Assistant Attorney General for the State of Utah.
    Before we start with the testimonies from our witness 
panel, I want to offer an opportunity for our good colleague 
here, Senator Wyden, to provide an opening statement.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RON WYDEN, 
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM OREGON

    Senator Wyden. Well, I thank my colleague, and I am looking 
across to Senator Murkowski--at one time she and I were Chair 
and Ranking Minority Member, and wonderful memories of working 
in a bipartisan way like that. And I thank you, Senator Cortez 
Masto. I am going to be very brief and just touch on two bills.
    The first deals with prescribed burns. And we, as 
Westerners, really understand what's at stake here. These fires 
today are not your grandfather's fires. They are bigger. They 
are hotter. They are more powerful. In our part of the world--
in Nevada and Oregon and all over the West--you have a 
lightning strike, and all of a sudden, you have got an inferno 
on your hands. And so, when it's hot and dry, as it has been 
the last few years, it's a prescription for trouble. And my 
feeling has been over the years that if you can get there in 
the cold weather season and work with scientists and work with 
people on the ground and industry folks and environmental folks 
and the like, you can do a lot to reduce the fire risk in the 
summer.
    And I have again introduced my Prescribed Fire Act, the 
National Prescribed Fire Act, for which I have gotten support 
from a number of Westerners and members from around the 
country, and it would essentially respond directly to more than 
40 of the Wildfire Commission's recommendations. In other 
words, we didn't just pull it out of nowhere. We try to follow 
the Cortez Masto approach, which is to--heaven forbid you try 
to do your homework and find out something that makes sense. 
That's number one.
    And Madam Chair, the other bill that I feel very strongly 
about is the River Democracy Act and it getting another hearing 
this Congress, because what we have sought to do, you know, in 
Oregon, is operate under the assumption that, you know, folks 
in the West, we are essentially, most of us, 3,000 miles from 
Washington, DC. And for a lot of our constituents, DC might as 
well be Mars for all the kind of connection it has with their 
lives. I see Senator Lee, both of my colleagues nodding because 
we all know that, you know, this is the part of the country 
that is just removed from the Beltway. And so, for the River 
Democracy Act, what we did is, we set aside a big chunk of time 
to go out and get as many recommendations, whether they were 
students, or industry, or environmentalists, or communities 
large and small--get their ideas for trying to preserve our 
special places, our rivers. And that's the point of this 
legislation, and we got something like 15,000 nominations, and 
it will be great to be able to have the recommendations of our 
panel members, and for Troy, if we could, because I am juggling 
a couple Finance things right now, if we could submit these to 
you in writing and, say, within ten days or so, get us back 
your recommendations. We want to work with the Chair and the 
Ranking Member so that we can move ahead.
    Thank you all. I apologize for the bad manners. I thank my 
colleague for letting me barge in, just as you were getting 
ready to testify, and I look forward to working with you and 
our colleague, Senator Lee, and members of the Committee in a 
bipartisan way.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Senator Wyden.
    Now I invite the panelists to all provide testimony. I am 
going to ask that you limit your oral statement to no more than 
five minutes. After everyone on the panel has had an 
opportunity to provide their statement, we will turn to a round 
of questions from the Committee members.
    We will begin with Ms. Kelleher's statement.
    Welcome.

STATEMENT OF KAREN KELLEHER, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, STATE OPERATIONS, 
   BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

    Ms. Kelleher. Chair Cortez Masto, Ranking Member Lee, and 
members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to 
provide testimony for today's hearing. I am Karen Kelleher, 
Deputy Director for State Operations at the Bureau of Land 
Management. Prior to this role, I served in a variety of 
leadership positions for the BLM in several western states.
    The BLM manages approximately 245 million surface acres 
located primarily in 12 western states, as well as 700 million 
acres of subsurface minerals, and is committed to our multiple-
use and sustained-yield mandate. The BLM supports the goals of 
nearly all the bills on today's agenda and the provisions that 
further the Administration's priorities. I will briefly discuss 
each of the bills affecting the BLM.
    The BLM supports the goals of the two Nevada bills on the 
agenda, which would provide direction for future management of 
various federal lands in Washoe and Clark Counties. Both bills 
have wilderness and other conservation designations, direct 
federal land to be taken into trust for the benefit of local 
tribes, and would provide for conveyance of federal lands to 
local government entities for public purposes, among other 
provisions. We would like to work with the sponsor to address 
various aspects of the bills, including ensuring the 
legislative maps clearly depict the proposed land actions.
    We support the four recreation-related bills on the agenda, 
as the Department is committed to providing high-quality 
experiences to visitors recreating on federal lands and 
ensuring that access to those experiences is equitable and 
inclusive. S. 3123, the MAPWaters Act, would consolidate, 
standardize, and simplify information related to outdoor 
recreation on public waters. S. 3346 would add approximately 
376 miles of rivers and streams in Montana as wild, scenic, and 
recreational rivers under the Wild and Scenic Rivers Act. And 
S. 4449 adds nearly 3,200 miles of rivers and streams in Oregon 
to the National Wild and Scenic Rivers System. S. 4451 would 
direct the Secretary to enter into an agreement with the 
National Academy of Sciences to study reservation systems for 
recreation on federal land.
    Two of the bills would provide assistance to our wildland 
firefighting efforts. The Department supports S. 3870, which 
would allow tribes to receive financial assistance to buy slip-
on tanks, and we support the goals of S. 4424, which would 
establish a prescribed fire account to fund coordination with 
state, local, and tribal governments, additional prescribed 
fire work, and training opportunities. We would like to 
continue working with the sponsor on improvements to the 
legislation.
    Next, S. 3148 would prohibit finalizing 11 travel 
management plans in Utah required under a 2017 settlement 
agreement until 22 individual R.S. 2477 lawsuits have been 
adjudicated by federal courts. The Department opposes this 
bill, as it would undermine the BLM's ability to provide 
recreation opportunities, minimize user conflicts, and protect 
sensitive resources.
    We appreciate the sponsor's effort on the three Alaska-
related bills on the agenda. S. 3617 would waive the core 
township requirements for land selection under ANCSA for the 
Cape Fox Corporation. The Department supports fulfilling Cape 
Fox's remaining entitlement.
    The Department generally supports S. 3790, which would 
extend the Alaska Native Vietnam Era Veterans Land Allotment 
program through late 2030 and would make additional lands 
available for selection by eligible veterans.
    S. 4310 directs an exchange of federal lands with the 
Chugach Alaska Corporation. The Department generally supports 
the goals of the bill that are aligned with the recommendations 
of the Chugach Region Land Study.
    We look forward to working with the sponsor on technical 
modifications to these three bills.
    Additionally, the Department supports the goals of two of 
the bills that aim to improve federal grazing management, 
including S. 3322, which would require the streamlining of 
minor range improvements, and S. 4454, which is focused on 
enhancing long-term ecological land health by increasing 
grazing operation flexibility based on emerging landscape 
conditions. We welcome the opportunity to work further with the 
sponsors on these bills.
    Finally, the Office of Surface Mining Reclamation and 
Enforcement has submitted a statement for the record on S. 4431 
and S. 4432.
    Thank you again for the opportunity to testify on these 
bills, and I look forward to your questions. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Kelleher follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Ms. Kelleher.
    Mr. Heithecker.

STATEMENT OF TROY HEITHECKER, ASSOCIATE DEPUTY CHIEF, NATIONAL 
    FOREST SYSTEM, U.S. FOREST SERVICE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF 
                          AGRICULTURE

    Mr. Heithecker. Thank you.
    Good afternoon, Chair Cortez Masto, Ranking Member Lee, and 
members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to 
share the USDA Forest Service's perspective on the 15 public 
lands bills with the Forest Service equities under 
consideration today. It is an honor to be here with you. My 
name is Troy Heithecker, and I currently serve as Associate 
Deputy Chief of the National Forest System. I have been a 
career employee with the Forest Service for 25 years. I have 
worked from Alaska to Arkansas, with a stop in Utah, and now 
here in DC, and in a couple of weeks, back out to Colorado. In 
my current position, I am responsible for policy, management, 
and oversight of 193 million acres of National Forest System 
lands spanning from Puerto Rico to Alaska.
    The Forest Service manages these lands for many purposes, 
including timber, grazing, clean drinking water, and 
recreational opportunities for the American public. The wide-
ranging nature of the bills we are discussing today 
demonstrates the breadth of the agency's mandate. It is my hope 
that our opportunity for dialogue today will allow me to 
highlight the depth and breadth of the Forest Service's ongoing 
work while addressing our feedback on the 15 specific bills. I 
will provide a brief overview of the bills on today's agenda 
and submit my full statement for the record. While our 
positions and specific interests vary to some extent from bill 
to bill, our testimony generally expresses a willingness to 
work with the bill sponsors and Committee staff to look for 
opportunities where our interests align and we can support or 
improve existing management practices. I hope that today's 
hearing can be a stepping stone for those continued 
conversations.
    Five of the bills on today's agenda relate to efforts to 
enhance recreational opportunities for the American public. S. 
4449, the River Democracy Act and S. 3346, the Montana 
Headwaters Legacy Act, would add river segments in Oregon and 
Montana to the National Wild and Scenic River System. S. 3985, 
the Sarvis Creek Wilderness Completion Act, would add 7,000 
acres to Colorado's Sarvis Creek Wilderness. And S. 3123, the 
Modernizing Access to our Public Waters Act, seeks to enhance 
public recreational access to federal waterways by 
standardizing data management across federal land and water 
management agencies. S. 4451, the RESERVE Federal Land Act, 
would require the National Academy of Sciences to conduct a 
review of reservation systems used by Federal agencies, 
including Recreation.gov.
    An additional three bills under consideration pertain to 
the Forest Service's Alaska region: S. 3790, the Alaska Native 
Vietnam Era Veterans Land Allotment Extension and Fulfillment 
Act, would extend an existing land allotment program by five 
years and make certain National Forest System lands available 
for selection through that program. S. 3617, the Cape Fox Land 
Entitlement Finalization Act, would allow the Cape Fox 
Corporation to obtain its remaining land entitlement under the 
Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act while ensuring continued 
access to federal lands. And S. 4310, the Chugach Alaska Land 
Exchange Oil Spill Recovery Act, would direct a land exchange 
between the Federal Government, including the Chugach National 
Forest and the Chugach Alaska Corporation. With regard to all 
of these bills, but especially the Chugach Alaska Land Exchange 
Oil Recovery Act, we recognize these are complex and sensitive 
issues and would appreciate the opportunity to have further 
conversations with the bill sponsors and Committee about the 
legislation.
    One of the bills under discussion today, S. 4424, the 
National Prescribed Fire Act, is focused on substantially 
increasing the number of acres of prescribed fire burning 
across all lands, especially in the western states. The bill 
proposes a broad range of actions and incentives that would 
promote and increase the use of prescribed fire on federal, 
state, and private lands. By increasing the use of prescribed 
fire, we may foster critical forest ecosystem restoration and 
curtail some of the devastation to communities and natural 
resources from extreme wildfire behavior. We appreciate 
Congress's interest in this topic and would like to work with 
the Subcommittee and bill sponsors, as many sections of the 
bill build upon existing USDA Forest Service programs.
    Two bills, S. 3593, the Truckee Meadows Public Lands 
Management Act and S. 4457, the Southern Nevada Economic 
Development and Conservation Act, relate to land issues in 
Nevada.
    And finally, four of the bills reflect the range and 
diversity of activities and uses managed by the Forest Service, 
namely water access, ranching, mineral leasing, and housing. S. 
2156, the Bolts Ditch Act, would require the issuance of a 
special use authorization to a water district for water 
diversion use. S. 3322, the Ranching Without Red Tape Act of 
2023, would establish certain requirements around the Forest 
Service's processes for permitting and approving range 
improvements. S. 4456 would amend the Granger-Thye Act to 
modify the maximum term for certain special use permits for 
housing. S. 3596 would amend the Mineral Leasing Act to replace 
the term ``gilsonite,'' which is identified as a leasable 
material with ``asphaltite,'' which is not. The bill would not 
change the Forest Service's role in the Administration of this 
commodity.
    Chair Cortez Masto, Ranking Member Lee, this concludes my 
statement. I look forward to answering any questions you or 
other members may have.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Heithecker follows:]
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    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
    Ms. Davis.

                   STATEMENT OF TESS DAVIS, 
           ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, STATE OF UTAH

    Ms. Davis. Chair Cortez Masto, Ranking Member Lee, and 
members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to 
speak on behalf of S. 3148, the Historic Roadways Protection 
Act. My name is Tess Davis, and I am an Assistant Attorney 
General for the State of Utah. I have been representing Utah's 
Public Lands Policy Coordinating Office for seven years, and I 
have overseen the state's R.S. 2477 litigation efforts for the 
last three.
    As Senator Lee mentioned, R.S. 2477 was a provision of the 
Mining Act of 1866. Meant to encourage the settlement of the 
West, it stated simply that ``the right-of-way for the 
construction of highways over public lands, not reserved for 
public uses, is hereby granted.'' And so people moved West, 
building roads across unreserved federal public land for over 
100 years. In Utah alone, nearly 13,000 roads were built 
pursuant to the right-of-way grant contained in R.S. 2477. R.S. 
2477 roads enable Utah's rural counties, some of which contain 
over 95 percent federal public lands, to sustain their 
economies and the livelihoods of the families who live and work 
there. These roads are not just lines on a map. They connect 
communities, enhance economic opportunity through access to our 
natural resources, and allow people of all types, ages, and 
abilities to visit and enjoy some of the most incredible 
natural wonders our state has to offer.
    R.S. 2477 was repealed by the Federal Land Policy and 
Management Act on October 21, 1976. But Congress specifically 
preserved all R.S. 2477 rights-of-way existing as of the date 
of FLPMA's passage. And while the preservation of these rights 
was important and necessary, FLPMA provided no clarification as 
to how these rights were to be proven. Despite this lack of 
clarity, Utah and its public lands counties have worked 
steadfastly for decades to resolve their R.S. 2477 claims, 
pursuing numerous avenues for resolution. The federal courts 
have ultimately held that R.S. 2477 claims must be adjudicated 
under the federal Quiet Title Act (QTA), and the U.S. District 
Court for the District of Utah has borrowed from state law to 
require proof of continuous public use of these roads for at 
least ten years prior to 1976. On this basis, the State of Utah 
and 22 of its counties have been litigating these claims under 
the QTA since at least 2012.
    This litigation has been lengthy, difficult, and costly. I 
have been in my current position for seven years and have been 
working on these cases, literally, since day one. And this long 
and drawn-out process has been highly disruptive to our rural 
transportation systems. A few of Utah's R.S. 2477 claims have 
been individually adjudicated but both Utah and the United 
States recognize that trying these claims on a road-by-road 
basis is a practical impossibility. A bellwether trial was held 
in the U.S. District Court for the District of Utah in February 
2020 in which 15 roads in Kane County, Utah were chosen as 
representative of the remaining legal issues to be resolved 
with respect to processing R.S. 2477 claims. That case has been 
fully briefed and is awaiting a decision, but discovery is 
still ongoing in all 22 lawsuits.
    To prove ten years of continuous public use, the state's 
discovery process relies heavily on the testimony of witnesses 
who are familiar with R.S. 2477 roads and who have traveled 
them since before the passage of FLPMA in 1976. By necessity, 
our witnesses tend to be elderly. The case management order 
requires that they be at least 60 years of age, but many are 
much older, and their age is often accompanied by various 
physical limitations. In preparing for R.S. 2477 depositions, 
counsel for the state arranges to travel these roads by vehicle 
with each witness. This process not only helps to refresh the 
witnesses' recollection but also allows the state to verify the 
accuracy of its maps and GIS data. In its travel management 
planning process, however, the BLM is closing or proposing to 
close many miles of R.S. 2477 roads. These closures not only 
impede the state's established discovery process, but they also 
lead to degradation of the roads themselves as they become 
overgrown by vegetation and fall into disrepair. If these roads 
are allowed to remain closed, the state and its counties suffer 
permanent harm, not just to their roads, but also to their 
ability to establish the validity of their R.S. 2477 rights-of-
way.
    S. 3148, the Historic Roadways Protection Act, is vital to 
safeguarding the status quo until Utah's R.S. 2477 claims can 
be adjudicated, and it will allow people of all ages and 
abilities ongoing access to our public lands. The State of Utah 
strongly supports this legislation. We are grateful to Senator 
Lee for introducing the bill and to the Subcommittee for the 
opportunity to testify on its behalf. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Davis follows:]
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Ms. Davis.
    Now we will begin the questioning from the Committee 
members. I will start.
    Let me ask both Ms. Kelleher and Mr. Heithecker--the 
National Prescribed Fire Act, sponsored by Senator Wyden, as 
you have heard, would authorize up to $300 million for a new, 
dedicated account for prescribed fire. Describe for me, if you 
can, how that new account might interact with the existing 
accounts at your agencies, such as the Hazardous Fuels account 
at the Forest Service, and the Fuels Management account at DOI?
    And Ms. Kelleher, we will start with you.
    Ms. Kelleher. Thank you, Senator.
    Yes, so, as you know, we use our hazardous fuels existing 
accounts as well as funding, right now, from the Bipartisan 
Infrastructure Law, to do a lot of fuels treatments, and that 
is balanced between all the different tools, whether some of 
that is prescribed fire, it's also mechanical, it's spraying 
invasive plants, those kinds of things. So this would be a 
second account that would be focused particularly on prescribed 
fire, which would allow us to increase our prescribed fire use, 
but I will defer to my Forest Service counterpart on that, but 
certainly for BLM, we have a somewhat limited land base that is 
conducive for prescribed fire, so we are interested in working 
with the sponsor to make sure that those other tools remain 
available----
    Senator Cortez Masto. Right.
    Ms. Kelleher [continuing]. In the toolbox going forward so 
that we can treat everything out there that we'd like to be 
able to treat. So thank you.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
    Mr. Heithecker.
    Mr. Heithecker. Yes, thank you for the question.
    We certainly agree that we need to get prescribed fire on 
the land, as Senator Wyden highlighted, and the importance of 
that and ultimately the goals of our Wildfire Crisis Strategy 
are to get the forests to a place where they are resilient 
enough that we can have natural fire on the landscape. 
Prescribed fire is one of those tools to do that.
    Generally speaking, along the lines of what Ms. Kelleher 
said, flexibility in funding is good. We have the same general 
funding scheme. We have hazardous fuels. We have vegetation 
wildlife. We have veg management, timber, all of those things 
that are a part of that portfolio. As with any other 
authorization, if there is not an appropriation that 
accompanies it, we will make trade-offs, and we do not know 
what those are without seeing a little bit more, but again, we 
are committed and interested in working with the Subcommittee 
on it.
    Senator Cortez Masto. And this legislation would help you 
not have to make those trade-offs, correct?
    Mr. Heithecker. If there is appropriated funding associated 
with it, yes.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Right. Thank you.
    Ms. Kelleher, let me also say, I appreciate your 
Department's support of one of my bills, the Slip-on Tanks for 
Tribes Act. Thank you so much. As it clarifies, the tribes are 
now eligible to receive financial assistance for that grant 
program created under the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law that 
you just referenced.
    I am curious, what kind of interest has the Department 
received from tribal communities for this program?
    Ms. Kelleher. Thank you, Senator. Yes, we did receive 
interest from the tribes in applying for those grants in the 
first round, and unfortunately, they were not covered by the 
BIL, so this will be really helpful to be able to add them 
because we need them to have this access because they are 
partners with us on public lands firefighting. And we will all 
be more effective if all of our partners have the tools they 
need to fight fire effectively. So we are very supportive of 
moving this forward. Thank you.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
    Senator Lee.
    Senator Lee. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Kelleher, in your opening statement you made some 
comments regarding my bill, the Historic Roadways Protection 
Act, saying that this bill would ``minimize recreational 
opportunities.'' What do you mean by this?
    Ms. Kelleher. Well, part of what we are trying to do when 
we do travel management planning in general is to consider the 
recreation activities that people want to do out there, whether 
that's full-sized vehicles, ATVs, UTVs, dirt bikes, bicycles, 
e-bikes, horses, hiking, all those uses.
    Senator Lee. I get it.
    Ms. Kelleher. So the TMP is really important for us to 
figure out where those uses should go, where we may want to add 
access, where access may conflict with existing resources, 
where there are user conflicts that we might need to separate, 
and the TMP is the tool we use to do all of those things.
    Senator Lee. I understand that. I understand that, but we 
have got a state that owns 13,000 R.S. 2477 rights-of-way. When 
we are shut out as a result of those TMPs, that's a problem. 
Now, I have gotten 800 comments, most of which are from 
recreators. They all would beg to differ with your suggestion 
there that it would minimize recreational opportunities. It is 
quite to the contrary. And I would just like to use this as an 
opportunity to register my complaint. This is part of the 
frustration that we, as Utahns, feel when 67 percent of our 
state is owned by the Federal Government. The largest chunk of 
that is managed by the Bureau of Land Management. We have 
become subjects. We have become pawns to the Bureau of Land 
Management as it decides what is and isn't going to happen. 
Ingress and egress become impossible. Access to recreational 
opportunities, sometimes to a workplace or a home site, becomes 
difficult or impossible as a result of that. And to hear you 
come in today and say that it would minimize recreational 
opportunities, to do something that is itself necessary, 
absolutely essential to maintaining recreational opportunities, 
is difficult for me. That is difficult for me to hear.
    Ms. Davis, let's turn to you. I appreciate your testimony 
today. Can you tell us what you think about whether it would 
minimize recreational opportunities?
    Ms. Davis. I think a good example would be the recent 
closure of the roads in the Labyrinth Gemini Bridges TMP. Many 
of these roads closed in that process were exceptionally well 
used by the motorized recreation community, and----
    Senator Lee. But you would share my frustration with Ms. 
Kelleher's statement?
    Ms. Davis. I absolutely would, yes.
    Senator Lee. Okay.
    Now, can you explain the historical significance of R.S. 
2477 and the impact that these roads have throughout Utah's 
history, the impact that they have had and continue to have 
today on the development and the connectivity, especially 
within our rural communities?
    Ms. Davis. Sure. Our tourism, agricultural, mining, and 
recreation economies exist because of the road network made 
possible by R.S. 2477. Throughout the early 20th century, 
Utahns eked out a meager living homesteading, prospecting, and 
grazing livestock, building roads along the way. And many of 
their descendants have continued these customs and lifestyle, 
but today they are joined by people from all over the world who 
come to Utah and use these same roads to experience these 
wonderful landscapes. The importance of these roads to our 
culture and economy can't be overstated.
    Senator Lee. Right.
    And without them, our state could never have been settled 
the way that it was. The roads would never have been built, but 
for the promise that if they built them, there would be 
ownership on the part of those involved in it. And they are 
jointly owned by the counties and by the state.
    Ms. Davis. That is correct.
    Senator Lee. And so, without those, we become this 
landlocked mess.
    Now, in your testimony you mentioned that nearly 13,000 
R.S. 2477 roads were established in Utah. How do these roads 
currently serve Utah's communities, and what would be the 
consequences if they were closed without proper adjudication?
    Ms. Davis. These roads serve our communities and economies 
in a lot of different ways. Some of them are on people's daily 
commutes. Some of them are on rural school bus routes. Many of 
them provide hunting, fishing, and other recreational access.
    Senator Lee. And yet, because of the fact that we don't 
have a clear path, there is nothing in FLPMA or in the original 
R.S. 2477 that provides for an effective means by which we can 
adjudicate them and have them, you know, have these settled. 
Tell us a little bit about the legal and practical challenges 
that we face litigating the R.S. 2477 claims.
    Ms. Davis. Cost is a major one. This is arguably the most 
expansive and expensive litigation in our state. Maintaining 22 
complex lawsuits for 12-plus years is immense. And the time and 
delays are an issue for us too because our witnesses are aging. 
We have had many potential witnesses pass away prior to our 
ability to take their testimony on these roads.
    Senator Lee. Right.
    I sometimes wonder whether that's part of the plan, whether 
that's a part of--perhaps a feature, not a bug. It really is 
distressing. Look--a lot of our states in the Midwest were once 
mostly owned by the Federal Government, and actually those 
lands were sold, but in every state to the west of Colorado, we 
didn't have a large-scale disposal of those lands. I think 
that's a problem, and it's a problem for economic development 
and everything, but even if we change nothing else, if they 
take away these lands, we can't even use what's ours. We can't 
even access what's ours, and you can't do your job as an 
Assistant Attorney General for the State of Utah.
    Ms. Davis. It makes it exceedingly difficult, yes.
    Senator Lee. We need to get this thing passed. Thank you.
    Ms. Davis. Thank you.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Senator Daines.
    Senator Daines. Madam Chairman, thank you.
    Over the last couple of weeks, I have introduced three 
pieces of legislation to ensure the continued operation of the 
Bull Mountains Mine, south of Roundup, Montana because it will 
support the local communities there and South-Central Montana 
and Central Montana as a whole. Two of these bills are on the 
agenda for today's hearing--Senate bill 4431, to fully 
reinstate the record of decision for the Bull Mountains Mine, 
and Senate bill 4432, to allow for the continued production of 
coal in federal section 22. I have also introduced Senate bill 
4444, the Crow Revenue Act, which would bring in much-needed 
revenue for the Crow Tribe, protecting jobs and ensuring the 
continued operation of that mine. The Crow Revenue Act is a 
win-win truly for the local community, the State of Montana, 
and the Crow Tribe. The bill was sent to the Senate Committee 
on Indian Affairs, but I would like to explore the importance 
of all three bills at today's hearing.
    Unfortunately, the Department of the Interior has slow-
walked the completion of an updated record of decision for the 
Bull Mountains Mine, so much so that the mine will run out of 
permitted coal and have to shut down long before the Department 
finishes their review. I don't believe that's a coincidence 
that a review scheduled to take less than two years is now 
taking over three years. Had the Department stuck to the 
original time frame, the mine would already have reissued 
permits, and then the community would not be facing the 
imminent closure of the mine. But the Department of the 
Interior continues to push the deadline further and further and 
further and further down the road. Unfortunately, this is not 
surprising, and this is consistent with the Biden 
Administration's radical actions to prohibit coal leasing in 
Montana and to shut down coal power plants.
    Ms. Kelleher, it is my understanding that the Department 
opposes Senate bill 4431 and Senate bill 4432. In light of the 
opposition to these bills and the BLM's prohibition of coal 
leasing in eastern Montana, do you believe it is the position 
of the Department to oppose coal production in Montana?
    Ms. Kelleher. Thank you, Senator.
    Under the proposed Mile City RMP amendments, we estimate 
that production from the existing federal and non-federal coal 
leases is forecasted to continue until 2035 at Spring Creek and 
2060 at Rosebud. So there will continue to be production for 
some period of time.
    Senator Daines. What about the Bull Mountains?
    Ms. Kelleher. I don't have at my fingertips the data for 
Bull Mountains, so I will need to take that back to OSMRE for 
the record.
    Senator Daines. Well, that's where the big pinch point is 
right now. If the Department does not reissue--let me just be 
clear, so whoever is watching at home on TV--if the Department 
does not reissue a record of decision for the Bull Mountains 
Mine--you talked about two different mines--or Congress does 
not pass one of my bills this year, the Bull Mountains Mine 
will shut down. Is that clear?
    Ms. Kelleher. Yes.
    Senator Daines. Understanding you are from BLM and not OSM, 
I understand that, will you commit to working with us and your 
colleagues at OSM to either finish the record of decision or 
support my bills before the end of the year?
    Ms. Kelleher. Thank you, Senator. I will definitely bring 
your request back to OSMRE and we will respond for the record 
to your request.
    Senator Daines. That was not a yes.
    Ms. Kelleher. I will ask OSMRE. I don't know the answer to 
the question myself.
    Senator Daines. Okay. All right.
    Ms. Kelleher. Thank you.
    Senator Daines. Thank you.
    The Crow Revenue Act is a win-win for tribal and rural 
communities. I wish we could have the Crow tribal leaders here 
to talk about the poverty they have. It is incredible. One of 
their hopes is the high-paying jobs they have right now from 
this mine and from this resource. Do you support Congress 
enacting legislation that increases energy revenue for tribes, 
supports energy jobs, and supports energy security?
    Ms. Kelleher. Thanks, Senator. We are certainly committed 
to honoring our nation-to-nation relationship with tribal 
nations and strengthening tribal sovereignty and self-
governance and upholding our trust responsibilities to them. We 
have not developed testimony yet specific to the Crow Act, but 
at the request of the Committee we can certainly do that and 
develop a position on that bill.
    Senator Daines. All right, thank you.
    Ms. Kelleher. Yes.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Senator Barrasso.
    Senator Barrasso. Thanks so very much, Madam Chairman.
    Mr. Heithecker, last Friday, a segment of the Teton Pass 
Highway in Wyoming collapsed in a landslide. The Wall Street 
Journal featured a photo of the landslide on page A2 in its 
Monday edition. Here's the original photo from the Wyoming 
Highway Patrol.
    [The photo and Wall Street Journal article follow:]
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Barrasso. You can kind of see the road, and then no 
road, and that's down the mountainside. The landslide has cut 
off a crucial transit route between Victor, Idaho and Jackson 
Hole, Wyoming, one state to the other. Well, thousands of 
people from all walks of life use this road every day to 
commute to work. They commute back and forth to and from 
Jackson Hole to Idaho. These are the workers who keep the 
community in Jackson Hole thriving. They include the healthcare 
workers at the hospital, schoolteachers, firefighters, 
rescuers, EMTs, paramedics, law enforcement officers, 
construction workers, restaurant and hotel staff, folks that 
are critical for the community. They also include employees of 
the U.S. Forest Service and Grand Teton National Park.
    You know, the landslide could not have happened at a worse 
time of the year, in terms of the summer tourism season being 
already underway. Now, I have been talking with the Wyoming 
Department of Transportation and our Governor and I know that 
the Department of Transportation is working with your Agency, 
with the Forest Service, and with the Federal Highway 
Administration to reopen the pass back up to traffic as quickly 
as possible. We need the road to be safe and make it open again 
as quickly as possible. So I was just asking if you could give 
us an update, tell us what your Agency is doing to expedite 
this process of reopening Teton Pass.
    Mr. Heithecker. Yes, thank you for question. And these 
landslides, I have seen numerous landslides that have cut off 
communities--working in Alaska, we have had one in Arkansas, 
and they are a huge impact to the communities, the people that 
work there, our own employees, and the people that use these 
lands. And it is a tragedy to see it. That is an amazingly 
terrible landslide.
    Senator Barrasso. Fortunately, no one was hurt.
    Mr. Heithecker. That is the grace behind that one is no one 
was hurt or injured.
    From the beginning, we have been engaged with Department of 
Transportation there and they have been really great to work 
with. Kudos to them. They are moving out extremely quick. We 
have helped them with some strategic planning, with some 
capacity efforts, engagement with local authorities, 
cooperation, damage assessments, and both districts, one on the 
Caribou-Targhee side over near Victor and the other in Jackson 
on the Bridger-Teton, are both working on expediting and doing 
what we can to be a part of the recovery in a bypass there.
    Senator Barrasso. Well, I appreciate that. We are working 
with the Governor, as you know, and he has declared an 
emergency.
    Mr. Heithecker. Yes.
    Senator Barrasso. They proposed a temporary bypass road on 
national forest land because it's going to take a while to try 
and get this thing back open again. Can you share with us what 
the Forest Service is doing to expedite the construction of 
this bypass road?
    Mr. Heithecker. Yes, to my understanding, the highway 
itself is a DOT right-of-way, the land next to it is Forest 
Service, and my understanding, after speaking with folks out 
there on the ground this week, is that we are working to create 
a bypass. DOT is moving out on it and we are doing everything 
we can to expedite those processes while, of course, staying in 
compliance.
    Senator Barrasso. So we will just thank you for all your 
help. I am grateful that you and the Forest Service have made 
reopening the Teton Pass a top priority. Thank you.
    Thank you, Madam Chairman.
    Senator Cortez Masto. I want to thank our witnesses today. 
I appreciate you coming to join us for the testimony, always, 
and your professionalism.
    Ms. Davis, welcome all the way from Utah. It was wonderful 
to have you here. Thank you.
    Ms. Davis. Thank you very much.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Absolutely.
    Members of the Committee may submit additional questions in 
writing. And if so, we will ask you to submit answers for the 
record. Committee members will have until 6:00 p.m. tomorrow to 
submit additional questions for the record.
    We will keep the hearing record open for two weeks to 
receive any additional comments.
    And with that said, the Subcommittee is adjourned. Thank 
you very much.
    [Whereupon, at 3:32 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

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