[Senate Hearing 118-272]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                        S. Hrg. 118-272

                     THE PRESIDENT'S BUDGET REQUEST
                     FOR THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE
                          FOR FISCAL YEAR 2024

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                            SUBCOMMITTEE ON 
                             NATIONAL PARKS

                                 OF THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                              MAY 10, 2023

                               __________
                               
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                              __________

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               COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES

                JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia, Chairman
RON WYDEN, Oregon                    JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington           JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont             MIKE LEE, Utah
MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico          STEVE DAINES, Montana
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine            JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada       BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado       JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
                                 ------                                

                     Subcommittee on National Parks

                      ANGUS S. KING, JR., Chairman

BERNARD SANDERS                      STEVE DAINES
MARTIN HEINRICH                      MIKE LEE
MAZIE K. HIRONO                      LISA MURKOWSKI
MARK KELLY                           CINDY HYDE-SMITH

                      Renae Black, Staff Director
                      Sam E. Fowler, Chief Counsel
                     David Brooks, General Counsel
             Richard M. Russell, Republican Staff Director
              Justin J. Memmott, Republican Chief Counsel
        John Tanner, Republican Deputy Staff Director for Lands
                                
                                
                                CONTENTS

                              ----------                              

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
King, Jr., Hon. Angus S., Subcommittee Chairman and a U.S. 
  Senator from Maine.............................................     1
Daines, Hon. Steve, Subcommittee Ranking Member and a U.S. 
  Senator from Montana...........................................     4

                                WITNESS

Sams III, Hon. Charles F., Director, National Park Service; 
  accompanied by Jessica Bowron, Comptroller, National Park 
  Service........................................................     6

          ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

Cantwell, Hon. Maria:
    Photographs of the Hurricane Ridge Visitor Center before and 
      after the May 2023 fire....................................    23
Coalition to Protect America's National Parks:
    Statement for the Record.....................................    36
Daines, Hon. Steve:
    Opening Statement............................................     4
King, Jr., Hon. Angus S.:
    Opening Statement............................................     1
    Chart depicting NPS staffing and visitation from 2010-2022...     2
Sams III, Hon. Charles F.:
    Opening Statement............................................     6
    Written Testimony............................................     8
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    30
Spiller, Judy and Chuck Ott:
    Letter for the Record........................................    40

 
THE PRESIDENT'S BUDGET REQUEST FOR THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE FOR FISCAL 
                               YEAR 2024

                              ----------                              


                        WEDNESDAY, MAY 10, 2023

                               U.S. Senate,
                    Subcommittee on National Parks,
                 Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:02 a.m., in 
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Angus S. 
King, Jr., Chairman of the Subcommittee, presiding.

         OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. ANGUS S. KING, JR., 
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM MAINE

    Senator King. The National Parks Subcommittee of the Senate 
Energy and Natural Resources Committee will come to order.
    Good morning. Welcome to the first hearing of the National 
Parks Subcommittee for the 118th Congress. Looking forward to 
today's hearing, we will be focusing on the National Park 
Service's Fiscal Year 2024 budget request. We welcome Director 
Chuck Sams to the Subcommittee. I am looking forward to our 
discussion. Joining Director Sams is Comptroller Jessica 
Bowron. Again, welcome to you both, and thanks for your time.
    I am pleased to see that the President requested an overall 
increase of $289 million for a total of $3.8 billion for the 
Park Service. However, fixed costs for the Park Service 
increased by $120 million, which would leave an additional $169 
million for increased impact, for those of you that are 
following the math. Part of that increase--the budget outlines 
an increase of 1,369 employees, which would bring staffing up 
to 20,759. This is an important step toward the 23,000 
employees that Senator Daines and I have been advocating for. 
It also shows that the Park Service is wisely using the $500 
million Congress recently provided for long-term staffing 
purposes in the Inflation Reduction Act. It is my hope this 
trend continues until we get to our workforce goal.
    The chart that I have brought, that my staff prepared, 
indicates that the blue lines are visitation. The orange line 
is staffing. And as you can see, a dramatic increase year by 
year in visitation, and a decline in staffing.
    [The chart referred to follows:]
    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator King. Now, the good news is it is on the upswing, 
and as you can see, it is coming up and projected to come up 
again this year. And for that, we congratulate you, but the 
point I want to make is, we are still not where we should be, 
just going back to the staffing ratio to visitation of 2010. So 
we are moving in the right direction, but we want to maintain 
that momentum. And I think it is very important because this is 
a fundamental part of the experience of people visiting the 
national parks. If there is inadequate staffing, they don't 
have the experience and the full ability to enjoy the parks 
that they should.
    In addition to staffing, one of the challenges facing the 
Park Service is maintenance, both routine and deferred. On 
routine maintenance, I am concerned we are not investing to 
meet the challenges the system faces. The total facility 
maintenance line-item request is an increase of $93 million. 
However, both the repair and rehabilitation and the cyclical 
maintenance are kept flat at the same levels they have been for 
the last two years. I hope to better understand why that is and 
if these subaccounts should receive greater priority. On the 
deferred side of the maintenance ledger, there is some good 
news and some bad news, and Congress will need to make some 
hard decisions.
    I want to pause here for a moment. The Congress, through a 
bipartisan--Senator Daines and I were prime sponsors of the 
Great American Outdoors Act to address deferred maintenance. My 
concern is that we are still deferring maintenance. That 
instead of digging out of the hole--we are helping--the Great 
American Outdoors Act, unquestionably has been a significant 
step forward, but at the same time, there is still more 
deferred maintenance, so we are still digging the hole. And I 
think that is something that we really need to be discussing. 
As I mentioned, Vice Chair Daines and I were part of a 
bipartisan group of Senators that negotiated the passage of the 
Great American Outdoors Act. It was monumental, and its biggest 
impact on the National Park Service was establishing the five-
year Legacy Restoration Fund. The fund provided the Park 
Service with $6 billion to repair and recapitalize assets that 
had significant deferred maintenance. These are repairs that 
should have been made long ago, but because of budget 
constraints were deferred, and now require bigger investments 
than they might have had, had they been fixed in the first 
place.
    At the time we passed the bill--we thought, we debated--the 
total deferred maintenance backlog was $12 billion. Remember 
that figure? That was the figure we were using. We hoped that 
would be able to cut that backlog in half. Unfortunately, we 
now know, at the end of Fiscal Year 2022, the total deferred 
maintenance backlog is more like $22 billion. There are a 
couple of explanations for that large change, and I think we 
need some reminders. The increase came about because the Park 
Service updated how it tracks and catalogs the maintenance 
backlog. Now the Service looks at what it will take to get the 
assets back to working condition instead of simply adding up 
work orders, which were focused on short-term, band-aid fixes. 
This has resulted in what appears on the surface to be a huge 
increase in the maintenance backlog, but a more accurate 
assessment, in my view. I don't blame the Park Service for this 
change. We need to use the most accurate data available, even 
when it tells us what we don't want to hear, though I must say, 
it is somewhat disheartening. So I want to hear about how we 
define success now that our baseline has changed so markedly.
    As we are approaching the end of the Legacy Restoration 
Fund, this Subcommittee needs to think about what comes next 
and how we will define that success. If we are going to even 
think about extending the restoration fund, I want to be sure I 
understand the current state of the deferred maintenance 
backlog, what the Park Service is doing to most effectively and 
efficiently use that funding and making sure they are not 
relying too heavily on the Great American Outdoors Act funding 
to supplant annual appropriations that should also be going 
toward routine maintenance and repairs. You can't depend upon 
being bailed out by a Great American Outdoors Act every five 
years. Maintenance has to be done on an ongoing basis. Even if 
there was not a routine maintenance gap and the deferred 
maintenance backlog vanished, we would still have challenges 
recapitalizing assets when they reach the end of their useful 
life. So perhaps there is a role for a permanent 
recapitalization fund.
    On a final note, I also want to say that I am very pleased 
by how the Park Service has been moving toward the selection of 
projects for funding under the Great American Outdoors Act. 
Deferred maintenance is not evenly spread across the country, 
but I know the Service has been diligent in making sure 
projects of varying sizes across a variety of park unit types 
have benefited from the funding. The FY24 list of projects 
would spend $1.33 billion and retire $1.25 billion in deferred 
maintenance. That is a pretty good ratio. I look forward to 
actually seeing that reduction in the coming years.
    Now I will turn to Vice Chair Daines for his opening 
statement and then to Director Sams for his opening statement 
and we will get to questions.
    Senator Daines.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. STEVE DAINES, 
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM MONTANA

    Senator Daines. Chairman King, thank you.
    As I have said many times, our parks actually bring this 
city of Washington together, more often than not, and our 
country together as well. Over the years, Congress has worked 
together to support and enhance our national parks as truly one 
of the great gifts to the people of our great nation. In 2020, 
the President signed the Great American Outdoors Act. Many said 
it was the greatest conservation win in perhaps up to 50 years. 
It was a historic investment in our parks, and I could not 
agree more with Chairman King's comments that the Great 
American Outdoors Act was a very important, monumental 
achievement here in Washington, but it was not meant to replace 
the need to continually fund backlog and take care of the 
backlog maintenance issue in terms of ongoing appropriations. 
It was meant to be kind of a jump-start to it, to get out of 
the hole, but not a means to replace what needs to be taken 
care of, which is the maintenance of our parks.
    It is debt. Chairman King has said that before. We have to 
think about maintenance backlog as debt that is held by our 
parks. It is crumbling housing for park employees. It is 
outdated and overloaded wastewater systems. It is inaccessible 
trails and parking areas littered with potholes. And that is 
why we came together and passed the Great American Outdoors 
Act. And while we have seen great work done with that funding, 
we have also seen the maintenance backlog continue to grow. It 
is simply unsustainable. And grow, I think, is probably an 
understatement. I mean, massively--virtually doubling. I look 
forward to discussing how the Park Service has implemented this 
important law and how we can improve the process to reduce the 
National Parks maintenance backlog.
    The Committee also came together to introduce the Gateway 
Community and Recreation Enhancement Act. This bill, sponsored 
by the Chairman and myself, supports our gateway communities. 
It spreads visitation to lesser-known recreation areas. It 
improves visitation data, creates a digital park pass, and all 
these, I think, are important tangible steps in supporting 
parks and local communities. This issue is even more important 
after the devastating flood that occurred in Yellowstone 
National Park last year. We are just about coming up on the 
one-year anniversary. Ensuring quick recovery for both the park 
and gateway communities is extremely important.
    I want to applaud the Park Service, and as we chatted as 
well, Mr. Sams, the work that Superintendent Sholly did. The 
hard work--he was tireless and his team there where they 
continued to--I mean, it was a 24/7 operation there. And it is 
remarkable what they accomplished in the relatively short 
construction season we have in places like Yellowstone Park. 
And we want to look more at digging deeper in the recovery 
efforts here today.
    Finally, I think it's important this Committee continue to 
look at the housing solutions. As Chairman King put that 
staffing chart on the board there, when both of us engage with 
our respective superintendents at our great parks, both 
sometimes in our backyards, literally, and around the country, 
we hear there is a connection between staffing and housing. As 
we have seen more Americans want to move closer to beautiful 
parts of our country where our national parks are located, it 
is causing big spikes in housing costs, and we have to find a 
way here to provide that housing for employees. I think the 
increase in housing construction that I saw in the Park 
Service's budget is a good start, but I do think we have to 
look more holistically at the problem. Both the employees and 
the teachers, restaurant workers, and families that serve our 
gateway communities are struggling with access to housing. The 
problem is most acute in places like Montana, where the 
surrounding federal lands make it nearly impossible to even 
expand additional housing or services. I look forward to 
working with the Chairman and my colleagues to try to find more 
solutions to this growing problem.
    With that, Mr. Chairman, I want to turn it back to you. I 
look forward to a robust discussion and the testimony from 
witnesses.
    Senator King. Director Sams, welcome to the Committee.

       STATEMENT OF HON. CHARLES F. SAMS III, DIRECTOR, 
     NATIONAL PARK SERVICE; ACCOMPANIED BY JESSICA BOWRON, 
               COMPTROLLER, NATIONAL PARK SERVICE

    Mr. Sams. Chair King, Ranking Member Daines, and members of 
the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to appear 
before you on the Fiscal Year 2024 budget request for the 
National Park Service. I would like to summarize my testimony 
and submit my entire statement for the record. I would first 
like to thank the Subcommittee for your support of the National 
Park Service in Fiscal Year 2023. Over the past year, I have 
visited parks across the country and seen firsthand some of the 
challenges they are facing, like recovery from natural 
disasters, adapting to increased or changing visitation, and a 
need to expand the breadth of the stories that we are telling. 
I have also seen and heard from our employees about how much 
recent funding increases through FY23 appropriations--the 
Inflation Reduction Act, the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, and 
the Great American Outdoors Act--are making an impact. I thank 
you for your support and I am pleased to share with you how our 
FY24 budget will support continued progress.
    The discretionary budget request for the National Park 
Service is $3.8 billion, an increase of $289.2 million compared 
to FY23 enacted funding. I want to highlight a few components 
with you: conservation, racial justice, capacity, and housing. 
Our request proposes an additional $110.7 million in service-
wide investments to protect resources from 21st century 
threats. Fundamental to this effort is an $86.8 million 
increase in operational funding to enhance natural resource 
capacity, expand youth core programs, and support conservation 
and improve climate risk assessments and responses for our 
cultural resources. We also propose installing additional 
charging infrastructure to support the transition to zero-
emission vehicles, complete climate vulnerability assessments, 
and better position the agency to respond to natural disasters.
    The FY24 budget proposes $32.3 million in increased 
investments to advance racial justice and equity for 
underserved communities, including strengthening our nation-to-
nation relationship with tribes. The budget supports an 
additional $7.1 million for expanded tribal co-stewardship of 
park resources, $2.5 million to increase tourism and benefits 
to tribes, $2.5 million in dedicated funding for tribal 
heritage grants, and $1 million for management of subsistence 
uses of National Park lands and waters in Alaska. The 
initiative also supports funds to improve physical and 
programmatic accessibility and invests in new parks like New 
Philadelphia National Historic Park and Blackwell School 
National Historic Site.
    The FY24 request also invests in our employees. The 
National Park Service has lost almost 19 percent of its 
operations capacity since 2011, as Senator King has pointed 
out. Over the same period, over 30 units have been added to the 
National Park system and annual visitation has increased by 
more than 30 million visitors. To help meet the demand, the 
budget seeks $25.4 million to support an additional 170 FTEs, 
or full-time employees. This increase will address new and 
critical responsibilities across the parks and bolster the U.S. 
Park Police and special agents program.
    Lastly, the budget proposes an increase of $7 million to 
construct, improve, and modernize housing for National Park 
Service employees, which remains a critical issue at parks with 
insufficiently available or unaffordable housing. This will 
help tremendously.
    Finally, I am pleased to update you on our progress to 
implement the Great American Outdoors Act. Funding from the 
Legacy Restoration Fund has provided us almost $3.9 billion for 
deferred maintenance. We have obligated more than $1.4 billion, 
with over 70 projects underway and more starting this year. 
From the Land and Water Conservation Fund, the National Park 
Service has received nearly $300 million for land acquisition 
activities and over $1 billion for state grant programs matched 
by non-federal funds, for a total impact of at least $2 
billion.
    Chair King, Ranking Member Daines, this concludes my 
summary. Thank you for the opportunity to testify before you 
today and for your continued support of the National Park 
Service, and I am happy to answer any and all of your 
questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Sams follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator King. Thank you.
    And I take it you are here to answer questions. Do you have 
an opening statement?
    Ms. Bowron. No statement.
    Senator King. Thank you.
    Well, obviously, both the Vice Chair and I talked about 
deferred maintenance, and there is a rule of thumb, Mr. 
Director, in the private sector that you should be doing two to 
four percent of the value of your assets as an ongoing 
maintenance budget, otherwise, you are going in the hole. It is 
hard to get a fix on what the value overall of the assets is of 
the National Park Service, but it appears that we are below one 
percent now in terms of what we are doing in terms of 
maintenance. I guess I would start by saying defend that and 
reassure me about the future. You understand the concern here. 
It was not easy to get the Great American Outdoors Act through, 
and in this budgetary situation, I think it would be even more 
difficult, plus we don't have Rob Portman and Lamar Alexander 
with us.
    So let's talk about getting the maintenance budget right so 
that we are not digging the hole deeper in the hopes of a 
future Great American Outdoors Act.
    Mr. Sams. You know, we are doing better calculations of how 
we are doing the deferred maintenance. That is first and 
foremost. We were not really using industry standards. And when 
they looked back, in the travels across the United States, last 
year alone I visited over 60 parks. I have seen more water 
treatment plants than I have ever planned to see in my life, 
but that is a good thing because water is extremely important 
to all of our visitors, ensuring that it's cool, clean, and 
potable. That being said, we also know that over the last 30 or 
40 years, the maintenance cost that you had been seeing in 
deferred maintenance really was just the band-aid effect, 
meaning our on-the-ground maintenance staff were looking at it 
on what it would take just to keep it going, rather than 
looking at what it would take to do surgery on this particular 
matter.
    As we have calculated, it did, in fact, double in price, 
and that was also a surprise to me, but I now trust the data 
that actually is being inputted into the system to better 
manage this issue.
    Senator King. I think we should point out that suddenly 
there wasn't a lot more deferred maintenance, it was a 
different way of accounting for it and determining what the 
amount was.
    Mr. Sams. Absolutely, sir. And it was really looking at 
more of the surgical approach. What will it take to really 
repair this for sustainability for the next 50, 70, 80 years? 
And that is why that price increased.
    Senator King. But I am not--I want to focus on the boring 
old operations budget and how much is in there for maintenance 
ongoing, not deferred maintenance, but just maintenance so that 
we are not deferring. My worry is that in this budget there is 
not enough for ongoing, sustained maintenance, which is only 
going to make a deferred maintenance problem get bigger in the 
future.
    Mr. Sams. Yes, our cyclic maintenance is an issue we are 
looking at. We are going to delve more deeply into how we can 
ensure that there.
    Senator King. And that number is flat for the last three 
years.
    Mr. Sams. Yes, sir. And we have 75,000 different assets, 60 
percent are very unique--you know, monuments, memorials, such 
as the Statue of Liberty and others, and looking at how we do 
that cyclic maintenance, we need to dig deeper in that and 
figure out what those true costs are so that we can more 
accurately come back to you and talk to you about that.
    Senator King. Well, this budget has already been submitted. 
It is going to be worked through the appropriations process, 
but I sincerely urge you, in the next budget, we should see a 
growth in annual maintenance in order to prevent the 
development of further deferred maintenance in the future.
    Mr. Sams. Yes, sir.
    Senator King. Thank you.
    Changing the subject, on staffing, how are you doing on 
recruiting? Every business I talk to is having difficulty 
recruiting. Are you able to fill these new positions that we 
have authorized?
    Mr. Sams. Thank you for the question, Senator.
    You know, that is one of the issues that is a challenge for 
us. We are using every tool available in our tool chest to be 
able to recruit and bring in the best and brightest and the 
most diverse workforce that really reflect who America is in 
our National Park System. That being said, we do have some 
impediments. The market has been very tight for all employers. 
We are trying to figure out our best ways to entice folks to 
come into the Service. To that end, with the great support of 
the Inflation Reduction Act and the $500 million, we are 
bringing in over 30 recruiters to go out and meet people where 
they are at--in colleges, in trade schools--to be able to start 
recruiting those folks to come in, and we are looking again at 
exactly what tools we might need enhancement on and plan on 
coming back and talking with you directly about that.
    Senator King. I also serve on the Armed Services Committee, 
and the military is having exactly the same problem, although, 
interestingly, except for the Space Force. They are 
oversubscribed. That does not apply, but perhaps it does in a 
sense. One of the things that they are talking about is that 
mission is an important part of recruitment. It isn't just 
about money or benefits. And it seems to me, you are not 
defending the country, but the mission of the National Parks is 
something that should be attractive to young people as a 
career. Is that emphasized in your recruiting efforts?
    Mr. Sams. Absolutely. I think our best recruiters are folks 
in uniform in the green and gray. They show and demonstrate the 
passion that they have for the Organic Act and our mission as a 
Service, and that does attract a lot of folks. I would say the 
folks that we have recruited over the last year and the new 
staff that I have met out in the field, they talk about being 
mission-driven and the work that we have done since 1916 and 
will continue to do. And I think that has been a very 
attractive way of recruiting new members.
    Senator King. My final area of concern is housing--
recruiting and housing relate, I know. In Acadia, we just 
passed a land change that will allow additional housing to be 
developed. I take it that this is a problem across the country 
as you visit these parks?
    Mr. Sams. Absolutely. The issue is really a factor of both 
quantity of housing units as well as our quality. And we have 
projects planned that will address rebuilding existing housing 
facilities where units are in disrepair and obsolete and not 
currently suitable for employees. For example, in Chaco Culture 
National Historic Park, we have existing housing units that are 
unlivable. A proposed line-item construction project will 
demolish the existing structure and build a new multiplex unit 
with a bed-for-bed replacement. At Mesa Verde National Park, a 
project will rehab and stabilize existing foundations and 
building envelopes of historic residences. While we address 
these projects, we are also evaluating the quantity necessary 
for the workforce. The housing market, as we all are very much 
aware, has been a challenge for many of us in recent years, 
especially due to COVID and natural disasters, and affected in 
other ways of where we are at.
    And so, with the increase of the $7 million, which would 
bring over $15 million to allow us to do additional leasing and 
upgrades in building, we are investing also nearly $100 million 
in the FY24 proposed budget on the housing issue.
    Senator King. You mentioned those parks, Mesa Verde and 
Chaco, 20 years ago, right now, my family and I were on a 
round-the-country RV trip for five and a half months, and we 
visited, I think, 17 national parks, and I thought my kids were 
sort of bored, but then when we went into Yellowstone and a 
herd a buffalo crossed the road, they just came alive. That was 
one of the highlights of the trip. So thank you for the work 
that you are doing, Director Sams, and we will come back and 
have a few more questions in a second round.
    Senator Daines.
    Senator Daines. Thanks, Chairman King.
    As I mentioned earlier, last year, Yellowstone Park 
suffered from flooding, which destroyed roads, bridges, 
wastewater systems, and we were very fortunate to have 
Superintendent Cam Sholly leading the park, because under his 
leadership, a quick action plan was created, recovery began 
immediately, and they got back on their feet faster than many 
anticipated.
    Director Sams, what actions still need to be taken at the 
park for recovery, and how does your budget reflect the needs 
of the park and the community to restore and prevent further 
damage?
    Mr. Sams. Well, first and foremost, I want to thank you all 
for the $60 million in emergency relief available from the 
Department of Transportation through the Bipartisan 
Infrastructure Law. Yellowstone was able to reconnect access 
between Gardiner and Mammoth and Cooke City to Tower-Roosevelt 
within months after the flood rather than years. That was 
critical to that, and Cam and his team being able to implement 
that--work closely with Transportation, work closely with those 
gateway communities, you know, really opened up access so that 
we continue to be able to be support back and forth between our 
gateway communities.
    The interim roads will continue to see work through this 
summer, of course. Another major ongoing investment in process 
is addressing temporary wastewater treatment needs at Mammoth, 
particularly. In addition, with the disaster supplemental 
provided by the Subcommittee for FY23, Yellowstone can begin to 
work on permanent repairs needed for the roads and other 
infrastructure. This is currently still estimated at $916 
million. NPS is working now to develop options and more 
detailed cost estimates to address the extent of the actual 
infrastructure damages within the park. We don't have an 
updated cost estimate at this time, though we do expect the 
work to take place over the next three to five years to fully 
complete it, and that will be reflected, of course, in our 
operational budget for the park.
    Senator Daines. Thank you. I remember shortly after the 
flood I had a chance to get a helicopter tour and, in fact, I 
was taking videos with my phone here and sending them to 
Chairman King so he could see the damage, certainly, of the 
road with that little small canyon in the Gardner River between 
Gardiner and Mammoth. I mean, it's not lost on any of us, they 
literally rerouted that road and went up a hillside, which took 
extraordinary, first of all, quick thinking, collaboration, 
building consensus on, you know, one of the iconic entryways 
into Yellowstone National Park. And they pulled it off, which 
is a great credit to Cam Sholly and his team and to the Park 
Service for supporting.
    As we have mentioned, the gateway communities were heavily 
impacted by flooding. It was Gardiner. It was Cooke City. Both 
were hit hard. Still recovering. I mean, we came off the COVID 
pandemic through, you know, lost sales and so forth of our 
hotel and our recreation industry. We were all geared up, 
staffed back up, ready to go and then got hit by this flood. 
Just a devastating gut punch to so many of our business there 
in those gateway communities.
    The question is, what actions is the Park Service taking to 
work with gateway communities on flood recovery, and can you 
talk any more specifically about the Mammoth to Gardiner 
wastewater system?
    Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator.
    Cam and his team immediately, once the flood subsided, 
started engaging our gateway communities, and we continue to. 
As a matter of fact, early on when we were just trying to 
figure out how to bring folks in once we were able to open up 
the roads, it was actually a community member who came up with 
the idea of using the odd and even numbers of license plates. 
So you know, that generation of ideas is extremely important to 
us in our partnerships with the gateway communities. We 
continue to have discussions with them around that because they 
are going to help us in looking at how we can make those 
roadways more resilient as they come in and out of parks.
    When we look at the issues at Mammoth, that actually was 
fortuitous in a strange way. We had an old wastewater treatment 
system that we were able to bring back online because we had 
old parts around. But we need to update, of course, and bring 
in a modern system. But the old system was able to hold us over 
until now as we are sending out the bids to bring in a new 
wastewater treatment system.
    Senator Daines. Thanks.
    One of the communities that got a little less attention, 
but was greatly impacted, was West Yellowstone. The roads in 
and out of West stayed open, a little different drainage, 
certainly, from where the Yellowstone and where the water 
really hit there, coming out of the Beartooths and more in the 
Yellowstone Park area. But they got hit hard because of the 
decrease in attendance of the parks. I know they are also 
working on wastewater improvements at West Yellowstone. So 
while they aren't maybe getting as much attention, I just 
encourage you to reach out and also work with that very 
important gateway community there in West Yellowstone, if you 
want to flag that here today.
    I want to go back to the Great American Outdoors Act and 
what is happening here on maintenance backlog. As Chairman King 
mentioned, the fact that maintenance spending has remained flat 
for the last three years in terms of the normal appropriations 
process, it is very concerning, I know, to both of us.
    Senator King. Flat and at a low level.
    Senator Daines. Low to begin with and flat, which only digs 
the hole deeper for maintenance backlog. In fact, one would 
argue that with inflation, certainly, we have actually lost 
more ground. And when you are holding numbers basically flat on 
a dollars basis, and that just concerns us, and I know there 
are a lot of competing priorities as it relates to where to 
invest dollars, but I just would urge you, as you look at your 
budgets, to rethink the investment in maintenance and make sure 
that we are getting that. We have to be moving that number up. 
And as the Chairman eloquently stated, we can't rely on 
Congress to every so often bail out the parks with another big 
bill here addressing, I mean, we are expecting you all to get 
back to more--we talk a lot about sustainability. We need 
sustainability right now in terms of our assets in our parks 
and maintenance.
    What actions would Congress and the Park Service need to do 
to see results in reducing that growing--like doubling--backlog 
number?
    Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator.
    First, I want to say that, you know, the $1.3 billion that 
we will receive from GAOA funding to help us with the deferred 
maintenance, we are also, as far as cyclic maintenance and 
others, we are investing over $970 million in the FY24 budget 
to continue to tackle that so we are not continuing to see this 
growth. Of course, as we bring new systems online and new parks 
online, we will end up with some forms of cyclic and deferred 
maintenance. But looking at it long-term, figuring that out and 
coming back and having further, more robust discussions with 
you all, I think, is important. We have to demonstrate, though, 
to you, how we are making those investments in those most 
critical areas.
    Senator Daines. I can guarantee you, and I think the 
Chairman has been very clear on this and I am too: if we keep 
seeing flat to--with inflation, really, declining investments 
in maintenance, it is going to be a recurring discussion here 
in this Committee. So I just urge you to go back and look at 
that.
    Senator King. And not a very pleasant one.
    Senator Daines. It may get less pleasant, as the Chairman 
says. So I think we really urge you to take a look at that, and 
we can't fund everything, so this becomes a priority question. 
And I think the concern we have is to continue to make this a 
high priority.
    Chairman.
    Senator King. Senator Cantwell is trying to get here. She 
has an urgent problem, as you know, and it's in Olympic 
National Park, and she will be here shortly.
    A couple of other questions.
    Last year, Congress created two new wild and scenic river 
designations, one for the York River in Maine, the other at the 
Housatonic, and also, we had two--we had a national heritage 
area defined in Maine, the Downeast National Heritage Area. 
Unfortunately, apparently the wild and scenic designations for 
all those that came before were at a certain level, and the new 
ones are at a lower level. The same for the national heritage 
area. So I hope you will look at that and that there will be an 
equalization at some point so that the newer designees are not 
treated less robustly, less strongly than existing ones. Is 
that something you can look into, Mr. Director?
    Mr. Sams. Senator King, absolutely, Mr. Chairman. We have 
been discussing it in my office, how we are doing that, 
especially wild and scenic and national heritage areas. I am a 
huge proponent of those national heritage areas. I think that 
it is a great public-private partnership, where the National 
Park Service is just providing, you know, technical support and 
a little bit of funding, but the amazing work that is done at 
the community level on the national heritage areas is extremely 
impressive. And I have visited several of them over the past 
year.
    Senator King. Yes, we are not talking about a great deal of 
money, but there is an inequality now that I think it would be 
helpful to address.
    Mr. Sams. Yes, sir.
    Senator King. Second area, one of the major challenges 
facing the parks as we come out of the pandemic, of course, is 
overcrowding, is visitation, particularly at certain parks. Two 
areas that I have been interested in, one is the Park Service 
to publicize the less well-known parks to try to divert some 
visitation. Not to say, ``don't go to Yellowstone or don't go 
to Acadia or don't go to Yosemite,'' but, ``here are some great 
places that perhaps you don't know about.'' You can paraphrase 
Ken Burns: America's Best Idea--and some of America's best kept 
secrets. So publicizing some of these lesser-known parks just 
to spread the visitation somewhat.
    The other is technology. Many of us use an app called 
Waze--W-A-Z-E--that tells us when there is congestion ahead. I 
have always thought a Waze for National Parks would be an 
important contribution because if somebody could look on their 
phone and say, ``well, there is a line to get into Glacier 
today, so perhaps we will divert and go to another park or 
another state park in the area.'' I encourage you--and I do 
compliment the Park Service, which is now implementing online 
app-based admission passes--but think about a way of alerting 
people to congestion. That is a technology that is out there. 
If they can tell you there is a truck turned over five miles 
away, they can also tell you there is a long line to get up 
Cadillac Mountain.
    Mr. Sams. Yes, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the efforts of 
both you and Senator Daines in helping us tackle that issue. I 
also want to thank the National Park Foundation, who has also 
been helping us with funding and looking at how we can improve 
our app so that we can have more of that instream data so 
people can make an informed decision, and also, how we 
highlight those lesser-known parks, or the parks that haven't 
been seen. We remain committed to collaborating with, of 
course, local communities and tribal governments and partners 
to find solutions to improve the quality and diversity of the 
visitor experience. Planning and design efforts, social 
science, partnerships, and pilot strategies are targeted to 
support the changing visitation and desired experiences, 
protecting resources, and of course, better connect visitors to 
parks, including historically underrepresented and excluded 
communities. We have completed approximately 30 visitor-use 
management planning projects with 45 more that are ongoing.
    In relation to how we are working more with electronic 
passes, the National Park Service currently offers site-
specific electronic passes at 81 park sites, including Acadia, 
Everglades, Glacier, and Grand Canyon National Parks. Visitors 
may also purchase passes online, and passes may either be 
printed or reside on a visitor's mobile device. The Park 
Service plans to expand the electronic passes to all 110 
entrances--by the end of this calendar year. We improved our 
capability for verifying passes without system connectivity, 
installing cell signal boosters at some sites to improve 
connectivity. We are deploying USB scanners at some sites and 
working with contracted service providers to integrate scanning 
and validation functions with point-of-sale equipment and 
network computers.
    The Park Service is preparing to issue an RFI on state-of-
the-art solutions to improve the interagency pass program by 
creating an electronic interagency pass, streamlining 
operations, improving access, and enhancing the customer 
visitor experience for a diverse set of populations.
    Senator King. If you could achieve interagency operability, 
you will have achieved a great deal. But think about this 
congestion mitigation app, if you will, because I believe that 
is something that, again, it addresses this overcrowding issue, 
not by telling people not to go, but saying, ``okay, if you 
take a side trip here for a couple days, it will be a more 
satisfying experience.''
    Senator Daines.
    Senator Daines. A couple more questions.
    I want to get into this issue of Park Service housing. It 
ties back to that chart that the Chairman had in terms of 
staffing levels and so forth, and one of the important ways to 
recruit and then retain staff is to ensure they have adequate 
housing. Your budget proposes $15 million to improve and expand 
Park Service housing. What is the action plan for this $15 
million, and do you believe it is enough to fix the shortage of 
housing and the repairs needed to make some of these homes 
livable? $15 million just to service--and I grew up in the 
construction business, home construction in Southwest Montana--
it just seems like a pretty low number, especially when you 
think about the importance right now of trying to solve this 
staffing problem.
    Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator.
    The FY24 budget proposes actually over $100 million to 
address employee housing in parks. This includes an increase of 
the $7 million we are talking about for a total of $14.9 
million for new construction or rehabilitation of existing 
employee housing where local market data shows limited 
availability of affordable housing for purchase or even rent. 
This funding will replace obsolete and deteriorated housing or 
add housing capacity at parks, including Mammoth Cave National 
Park, Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Park, and Rocky 
Mountain National Park.
    As part of the overall strategic approach to the issue, the 
Park Service budget also proposes $32.7 million in the line-
item construction and Legacy Restoration Fund programs to 
rehabilitate housing at Mesa Verde, Chaco Culture, and Great 
Sand Dunes National Park and Preserve. Additional funds from 
repair, rehab, cyclic maintenance, and quarters revenue will 
also support housing that is O&M. This strategic approach 
includes $2 million to support private-sector leasing for 
seasonal housing in local communities first enacted in the FY23 
budget. As of February 2023, parks are hoping to add more than 
100 beds with this funding. And at Acadia, we will leverage the 
$5 million in donations from the partners to match the 
Centennial Challenge funds for construction of new seasonal 
employee housing.
    The Park Service is also pursuing administrative solutions 
such as strengthening current policies and procedures, seeking 
opportunities for public-private partnerships, and consulting 
with the private sector and forming a working group of park 
managers to make recommendations that we plan on coming back to 
you about some additional authorities we may need in order to 
have stronger public-private ventures in housing.
    Senator Daines. Yes, that is another part of the solution, 
certainly that partnership, no doubt.
    I noticed in the budget as well, on the same line as 
housing construction, you have included $4 million for climate 
change studies. I understand the lay of the land is very 
important, but I know if we went and tallied up all the climate 
change studies going on right now across all the federal 
budgets, it is a massive number. I mean, the military is doing 
climate change studies. Now you have it in the Park Service 
budget as well. I just think it is important, as you think 
about priorities and limited resources, that providing housing 
for employees and fixing this very real and living present 
situation for many Montanans would be a high priority versus 
yet another study, of which, I am sure if we inventoried all 
the climate change studies that are proposed right now in the 
federal budget, it is a long, long list. So we can't do 
everything at once. I just continue to ask you to reevaluate 
priorities and think that through as we go forward.
    One final question on LWCF appraisals. We have heard 
concerns about the length of time that land appraisals can take 
at the Department of the Interior's Appraisal and Valuation 
Services Office. It is a really important part of implementing 
the Land and Water Conservation Fund as we work with willing 
and able landowners that seek to participate. And as we know, 
the biological clocks tick, and sometimes, you know, the senior 
members of the family have this vision, but we get hung up in 
the appraisal process and sometimes we miss windows of 
opportunity to get something done. Could you comment on the 
impact this has had from National Parks Land and Water 
Conservation Fund work?
    Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator.
    We continue to work closely with the AVSO. The Department 
overall is addressing many of our concerns and we continue to 
raise those concerns with them. The Department has stood up a 
DOI working group that reports to DOI leadership, identifying 
root causes and changes with near-term results. I will say that 
building capacity, innovative recruiting, and using increased 
pay rate authority is allowing us to increase the number of 
appraisers. We currently have 105 on board, the highest since 
the Appraisal and Valuation Services Office was created. And we 
have to focus on customer service, partnering with bureaus up 
front, and accelerating that process, including my bureau, 
making sure that we are an active partner in that decision-
making process.
    We are seeing results. In FY22, time for completed 
appraisals was 169 days, below the standard of 180 days. We 
completed more than 3,500 appraisals valued at over $2 billion, 
but obviously, there is much more work to be done. I think we 
are off to a good start.
    Senator Daines. Yes.
    Mr. Sams. I also want to see that, having come from 
previously, where my previous work as a conservationist with 
the Trust----
    Senator Daines. Right.
    Mr. Sams. I know how important the AVSO Office is.
    Senator Daines. No, I am glad you know that and I am glad 
you are scoreboarding it as well. As they say, you get what you 
inspect, not what you expect. And scoreboarding is very 
important in terms of laying out the numbers and keeping that 
at 169. Let's drive that down further. Again, I grew up in that 
business, in construction and real estate, and we need to drive 
these appraisals--I know it has been a difficult time with 
COVID with the backlog of appraisals, but that isn't the answer 
on why we have had, you know, delays. And I think the third-
party contracting could help speed the process up. Anything 
else besides, you know, whether it is third party contracting, 
anything else to speed that process up, because we need to 
drive it down further.
    Mr. Sams. Third-party contracting is still part of our 
policy and we will continue to use that. As we continue to 
evaluate, I am happy to have those discussions with you again, 
and look forward to having those discussions. AVSO is an issue. 
We are going to tackle it. It is important to us in the Park 
Service.
    Senator Daines. Yes.
    Mr. Sams. As you said, before things start going up, we 
want to be able to act quickly.
    Senator Daines. Director Sams, calling it an issue is a 
very kind word. So I will leave it at that. Thank you.
    Senator King. Director, I meant to say this at the very 
beginning. I hope you will convey to your staff and to the 
thousands of people that work for the Park Service the 
compliments of this Committee for the yeoman service that they 
provide to the country, to their visitors. I also want to 
compliment you on your emphasis on tribal efforts that you 
outlined in your opening statement, working with the tribes 
across the country and the relationship with the Park Service, 
I think, is very important.
    The Inflation Reduction Act, which you mentioned several 
times, had $500 million for additional staffing. However, it is 
limited to ten years, and I hope that the Park Service begins 
now to think about how to sustain that funding, whether to fold 
it into the ongoing budget or what the strategy will be because 
limited funding--the deadline has a way of coming. So I hope 
that this is some of your planning for dealing with the ongoing 
staffing needs that are being met by that law but which has a 
limited duration.
    Mr. Sams. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    You know, sitting to my left, I call my Comptroller my 
dream maker or my dream killer, and she has been very 
thoughtful in how we are implementing this money up into the 
year 2030. We are looking at strategically placing folks in 
parks with the money and we are figuring out how we will absorb 
those and their base operations and make those requests 
annually because you are absolutely right, we don't want to get 
to the end and we don't want to be at a clip where we are 
finally making the capacity where American people want to see 
our rangers in the parks, and then all of a sudden, they are 
not there anymore. I want to say Jessica and her team have 
worked very closely with the operations staff, my 
administrative staff, to develop our proposal and strategic way 
of how we are going to move that forward.
    Senator King. Thank you.
    Senator Cantwell wanted to be here this morning, but has 
another commitment, so I am going to follow up with a question 
that she would want to be addressed this morning. As you know, 
Washingtonians, recreationalists, people in the region of 
Olympic National Park, are mourning the burning of the visitor 
center, which burned to the ground on Sunday. It is a historic 
lodge--300,000 travelers visit that landmark every year. Just 
last year, Olympic National Park received $11 million of Great 
American Outdoors Act funding to renovate the historic 
Hurricane Ridge Visitor Center. There it is. I visited myself 
some years ago. Unfortunately, it was a foggy day, so I 
understand there is a great view, but I did not see it.
    [Photographs of the Hurricane Ridge Visitor Center follow:]
    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5521.007
    
    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5521.008
    
    Senator King. This is an important investment that was made 
last year to address the park's $190 million in deferred 
maintenance and an investment in the surrounding community 
depending upon the rejuvenation of the visitor center to 
increase access and attract more visitors to the Olympic 
Peninsula region. Olympic National Park is one of the top 15 
most visited national parks in the country, creates 2,700 jobs, 
and visitors spend over $250 million in the Olympic Peninsula 
gateway communities. Much of this spending is during the summer 
tourism season, which is set to begin Memorial Day weekend at 
Hurricane Ridge, just a few weeks away. Washingtonians, 
particularly those living on the Olympic Peninsula, are worried 
and in need of some answers. The 17-mile paved road leading 
from Port Angeles to Hurricane Ridge has been closed to the 
public since March 27, and while the visitors center was closed 
for renovations, that stretch of road is very popular because 
it has many trailheads and scenic views. Prior to the fire that 
wiped out the visitor center, the road was expected to reopen 
by Memorial Day weekend, as I mentioned, just a few weeks away.
    The first question is, when can visitors expect the road to 
Hurricane Ridge to reopen, and what are the obstacles to 
reopening the road?
    Mr. Sams. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And to answer Senator Cantwell's question, I was also very 
disheartened. My family and I were coming from a camping trip 
on Sunday when we heard the news. I got word that the fire was 
taking place. It is still smoldering as we speak. We have stood 
up a small incident command team. We have investigators who 
will be showing up later today so that we can look at what has 
happened there and determine how the fire was started and the 
cause of the fire. We are committed to figuring out what those 
costs are going to be. The road will continue to remain closed 
because of the safety concerns until such time that my team 
there lets me know that it can reopen. We had hoped, of course, 
that it would have been opened by May 25, but with the result 
of this fire, it is going to take a little bit longer.
    Senator King. But you are intent on getting that road open 
as soon as possible, given that the road itself is an 
attractive asset.
    Mr. Sams. Yes.
    Senator King. And you have already testified nobody yet 
knows the cause of the fire?
    Mr. Sams. That is correct. The investigation team is on 
their way.
    Senator King. And is this an investigation team that is 
part of the Park Service?
    Mr. Sams. Yes, it is part of our investigation team, and I 
can't remember if we have outside or not.
    Ms. Bowron. ATF.
    Mr. Sams. Yes, we do have--who?
    Ms. Bowron. Alcohol, Tobacco----
    Mr. Sams. Oh, thank you. ATF is also going to be helping us 
with the investigation.
    Senator King. Thank you.
    Senator Cantwell understands this is an evolving situation. 
We are trying to get the fire out. It is still smoldering, as 
you suggest. I think her final question is, what are the plans 
for rebuilding? Will you commit to working with Senator 
Cantwell and the park in the efforts to rebuild the visitor 
center?
    Mr. Sams. We are committed. We know that it is a very 
popular and useful site. We are committed to rebuilding there 
and we will work very closely with the Senator and the park and 
the local community to figure out what we will replace it with.
    Senator King. Thank you.
    On behalf of Senator Cantwell, I know she will be reassured 
by those statements. Thank you, Mr. Director.
    Senator Lee.
    Senator Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Director Sams, it is great to see you again and good to 
have you in front of the Committee. I hope all is well. As you 
know, you have a large influence in my state, and we have 
beautiful parks under your jurisdiction and I thank you for 
taking care of them.
    As you are well aware, visitation at the parks in my state 
remains high. This is, of course, good news, but it does 
contribute to some of the challenges related to crowding at 
park entrances and at popular trails within those parks, 
especially at really popular parks like Zion. Stakeholders in 
Washington and Kane counties in the southwest corner of my 
state proactively developed a number of creative strategies to 
address the crowding issues at Zion, as these are the two 
counties in which Zion is found, in order to avoid the harmful 
economic impacts of a timed entry system. And this is a 
strategy that involves dispersing visitors to some of the 
lesser-known areas within the park as well as the other trails 
and attractions in the greater Zion system.
    In an ENR hearing in July 2021--so not quite two years 
ago--Deputy Director Mike Reynolds, who at the time was the 
Intermountain Regional Director, assured me that, ``The NPS is 
committed to collaborating with local communities, businesses, 
and non-profit partners to find solutions that address crowding 
and congestion in a thoughtful way.'' Do you agree with Deputy 
Director Reynolds?
    Mr. Sams. I absolutely do, sir.
    Senator Lee. And can you describe your vision for what 
local collaboration ought to look like in this context?
    Mr. Sams. I remain committed, and the Service remains 
committed in working with our gateway partners, our 
communities, state leadership, and county leadership on how we 
can best manage visitation within our most popular parks. And 
as you pointed out, highlighting some of the lesser-known parks 
so that we can get folks, but rotate them through. We are 
committed to looking at and figuring out how to bring 
technology to these parks and talking with our local folks on 
how we can bring in that technology to manage how the roads are 
currently used, how is traffic coming in and out of the park, 
so folks can actually make an informed decision on when it may 
be best for them to come at a later time or even a later date.
    Senator Lee. Thank you. I appreciate that and I would 
encourage you as you do that to just focus as much as you can 
on gauging the local governments, the locals, including and 
especially the local governments from the beginning, rather 
than just filling them in on the details after the fact, 
because they know the local patterns better than anybody else. 
Having lived there, most of them, for most or all of their 
lives, they know what will work and what won't. They have seen 
the ebb and flow of visitors over the years.
    On a different topic, Utah has had a great winter. As you 
know, we get most of our water from snowpack, and this year we 
have had a lot of snowfall and, in fact, we set records for 
snowfall and for the resulting snowpack. While this provides 
some great temporary relief, water level and continued 
recreation access at Glen Canyon remains a concern in the 
context of this ongoing drought we have had. Considering the 
changes in the hydrology at the lake this year, how will your 
recreation operations likely change relative to last year?
    Mr. Sams. Thank you, Senator Lee.
    We are working very closely with our partners at Glen 
Canyon, along with concessionaires and trying to--the impacts. 
We are very appreciative of the disaster relief money the 
Subcommittee supported last year to help us with that. We are 
going to bring those funds to bear to mitigate for some of 
those issues, but we are committed to making sure that the 
recreation is open because we understand the economic impact 
that has to our community as a whole and to the users who just 
wish to enjoy that particular and beautiful place.
    Senator Lee. You are talking about the $26 million----
    Mr. Sams. Yes.
    Senator Lee [continuing]. In disaster supplemental relief 
last year, which was, of course, prioritized for North Lake 
Powell access. I understand several designs have been in the 
works to improve and extend ramp access. Can you provide an 
update on how those funds are being used?
    Ms. Bowron. At Glen Canyon, there is an open solicitation 
for the Bullfrog Marina relocation. That should close later 
this month.
    Senator Lee. Great.
    Ms. Bowron. That will move that marina off the bay and onto 
the main channel of the Colorado, which will really guarantee 
access for years to come.
    Senator Lee. And it is deep right there so that you should 
be----
    Ms. Bowron. Once you are on the channel, yes.
    Senator Lee. And Mr. Chair, as my final seconds are ticking 
down, I have one more question, if that is okay.
    In 2021, the Park Service finalized a rule that enhanced 
access for off-road vehicles within the park by authorizing 
street-legal OHV use in the park on most paved and unpaved 
roads, permitting access to 14 accessible shorelines, including 
the Lone Rock Beach and Play Area. Preserving access to this is 
a priority for me and for lots and lots of recreators within 
the state. Now, I understand that the rule is being litigated 
in the D.C. Circuit. Are you defending the rule in that 
litigation?
    Mr. Sams. Senator, I will have to get back to you on that 
particular question.
    Senator Lee. Okay.
    Mr. Sams. But I want to say though that the off-roading 
vehicle community has been a great partner of ours and I want 
to continue to work with them and find those solutions. Most 
recently, for National Park Week, I was at Cape Cod, and the 
off-road vehicle folks brought over 70 people to help with the 
beach cleanup. I understand that they appreciate the resource 
and they are also good stewards of those resources.
    Senator Lee. They are. They are. You know, I think they 
are, generally, particularly those focused in this area, in the 
Glen Canyon area. They have been good stewards of the land, and 
this is how a lot of people access and recreate down there. And 
so, it would be shutting a lot of people off if we did not have 
that. So I look forward to your update on that.
    Thank you. Thank you both very much.
    Senator King. Director Sams, thank you so much for being 
with us.
    Madam Comptroller, thank you for being with us and thank 
you for your important work on behalf of one of the most 
important assets that this country has. It is a sacred mission 
and we are delighted that you have taken on its stewardship.
    Thank you again, and don't hesitate to be in touch with 
this Committee at any time. It doesn't have to be a formal 
hearing. If there are issues that come up as we are moving 
through the process, particularly the budget process, I hope 
that the Department will let us know if they encounter special 
needs, perhaps such as the rebuilding of the visitor center at 
Olympic National Park.
    Thank you again for your testimony. We will have a week for 
members of the Committee to submit additional questions. And we 
look forward to our next opportunity to discuss these issues 
with you.
    Thank you both for being with us. The hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:00 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

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