[Senate Hearing 118-270]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
------
S.Hrg. 118-270
THE PRESIDENT'S BUDGET REQUEST FOR
THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
FOR FISCAL YEAR 2024
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
----------
MAY 2, 2023
----------
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
THE PRESIDENT'S BUDGET REQUEST FOR THE U.S.
DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR FOR FISCAL YEAR 2024
______
S. Hrg. 118-270
THE PRESIDENT'S BUDGET REQUEST FOR
THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
FOR FISCAL YEAR 2024
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
MAY 2, 2023
__________
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
_______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
55-519 WASHINGTON : 2024
COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia, Chairman
RON WYDEN, Oregon JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont MIKE LEE, Utah
MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico STEVE DAINES, Montana
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana
MARK KELLY, Arizona CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
Renae Black, Staff Director
Sam E. Fowler, Chief Counsel
David Brooks, General Counsel
Melanie Thornton, Professional Staff Member
Richard M. Russell, Republican Staff Director
Justin J. Memmott, Republican Chief Counsel
John Tanner, Republican Deputy Staff Director for Lands
C O N T E N T S
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OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Manchin III, Hon. Joe, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from West
Virginia....................................................... 1
Barrasso, Hon. John, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from
Wyoming........................................................ 3
WITNESS
Haaland, Hon. Deb, Secretary, U.S. Department of the Interior;
accompanied by Deputy Secretaty Tommy Beaudreau and DOI Budget
Director Denise Flanagan....................................... 5
ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
Bainbridge Island (WA) City Council:
Resolution No. 2022-11....................................... 63
Barrasso, Hon. John:
Opening Statement............................................ 3
Poster featuring assorted headlines related to mining in the
Democratic Republic of the Congo........................... 31
Chart entitled ``Average Time To Process Applications for
Permit To Drill''.......................................... 122
Letter from the Wyoming Congressional Delegation addressed to
Secretary Haaland, dated April 6, 2023..................... 124
Twin Metals Minnesota Project Environmental Review Support
Document from the Bureau of Land Management National NEPA
Register................................................... 213
BLM Idaho Resource Advisory Council, Lava Ridge Subcommittee:
Final report and findings regarding the proposed Lava Ridge
Wind Energy Project and Draft EIS.......................... 66
Cantwell, Hon. Maria:
Yakima Herald-Republic announcement of a gathering to be held
in Toppenish, WA, in honor of missing and murdered
indigenous women........................................... 116
Cassia County (ID) Board of Commissioners et al.:
Multi-County Resolution No. 2023-01.......................... 69
Friends of Minidoka et al.:
Statement for the Record with attached Exhibits 1 and 2...... 38
Haaland, Hon. Deb:
Opening Statement............................................ 5
Written Testimony............................................ 7
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 132
Hawley, Hon. Josh:
Bureau of Ocean Energy Management memorandum related to Lease
Sale 258................................................... 89
Idaho State Legislature:
House Concurrent Resolution 4................................ 60
Kitsap County (WA) Board of Commissioners:
Resolution No. 033-2022...................................... 58
Manchin III, Hon. Joe:
Opening Statement............................................ 1
Minidoka Pilgrimage Planning Committee:
Statement for the Record..................................... 50
Risch, Hon, James E.:
Rendering of the Minidoka National Historic Site with
superimposition of wind turbines........................... 36
Letters and resolutions related to the Lava Ridge Wind
Project.................................................... 38
Chart entitled ``Turbine Size Comparison''................... 76
Rosen, Hon. Jacky and Hon. Catherine Cortez Masto:
Letter addressed to Secretary Haaland, dated April 26, 2023.. 78
THE PRESIDENT'S BUDGET REQUEST FOR THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
FOR FISCAL YEAR 2024
----------
TUESDAY, MAY 2, 2023
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:30 a.m. in Room
SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Joe Manchin III,
Chairman of the Committee presiding.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOE MANCHIN III,
U.S. SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA
The Chairman. This morning, the Committee will be
discussing the President's proposed Fiscal Year 2024 budget for
the Department of the Interior and other items within its
purview. I would like to welcome Secretary Haaland and Deputy
Secretary Beaudreau back to the Committee as well as Interior
Budget Director Denise Flanagan. I want to thank you all for
joining us this morning.
To set the scene, I think it is important to note for
context that the Congress provided the Department an additional
$48.1 billion in the last 19 months, including $47.3 billion in
targeted investments through the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law
and Inflation Reduction Act, and a $779 million increase in
annual appropriations last year. But now, the Administration is
requesting another $18.9 billion for FY24 for the Department--a
$2 billion, or 12 percent increase over 2023 Fiscal Year
appropriations. So I really look forward to hearing the
justification for such large increases on top of historic
funding. I also look forward to a robust discussion on the
state of our leasing programs. I firmly believe that we and our
allies are going to need fossil fuels for the foreseeable
future and that robust and continued leasing by the Department
are a key part of that effort to maintain U.S. leadership in
energy security.
Unfortunately, the Administration's actions and the
President's own statements indicate a desire to tamp down on
oil and gas leasing. In fact, just last week, the White House
Press Secretary clearly said the Administration does not like
the provisions in the IRA that, I quote, ``don't have anything
to do with clean energy.'' I will repeat that again. He doesn't
like anything in the IRA that he says doesn't have anything to
do with clean energy. They all knew perfectly well that it was
a balanced energy security bill. I assume she is referring to
the mandated offshore oil and gas leases that I included as
well as the requirement that oil and gas leasing take place
before renewable leasing can. If that is the case, let me first
state for the record that American oil and gas is certainly
clean energy compared to what the Administration is considering
importing from Venezuela, and morally cleaner than lifting
sanctions on Iran. But I also have to assume she is referring
to these fossil provisions, because internal Interior documents
from the Alaska lease sale made clear that the Administration
has manipulated the law to discourage oil and gas interests. In
fact, they said in black and white that they chose a higher
royalty rate to discourage energy production at the expense of
Alaskan energy security.
That's simply unconscionable to me, especially as the
Administration is hypocritically happy to target producers for
not producing more while pursuing a regulatory environment and
efforts designed to kill the industry by a thousand cuts. The
truth is that we can produce cleaner energy than anywhere in
the world, and that production can help bring down our own
energy costs and support our friends and allies at the same
time. And this also provides needed revenue for both federal
and state governments. In fact, the most recent sale mandated
by the IRA set records for high bids and brought in $263
million. Let's be clear--we would not be setting bidding
records if there was no need for oil and gas well into the
future. I have been very vocal about how concerned I am that we
are still waiting for the next five-year offshore program of
oil and gas lease sales. And the Department has said that a
final program is not expected now until December. We have never
even had a gap between programs before. Never a gap, let alone
the year-and-a-half delay that we are expecting now. In fact,
we talked about this exact issue at this same hearing last
year. The lack of progress with this program, combined with a
lack of advanced preparation for 2024 sales, unfortunately
sends a signal that you have no intention of holding any
offshore lease sales in 2024 after the final mandatory sale in
September 2023.
I know this Administration has a big goal set for offshore
wind and onshore renewables--goals that are reliant on
continued oil and gas leasing. I don't know why we can't just
work together. I don't know why we can't agree that we need a
balanced approach. So let me remind you that those goals are
unattainable if you don't do your jobs. I will be watching
extremely closely to ensure you faithfully execute the law, as
required not only by the IRA, but also by the Mineral Leasing
Act, to ensure that onshore and offshore oil and gas leasing
continues and federal renewable development only occurs if
those requirements are met.
Getting back to the budget--while we are being asked to
fund new initiatives, we are still waiting on Interior to
comply with requirements in existing law. With agency
leadership lamenting the lack of staff, and agencies missing
statutory deadlines, you would think that the Department would
be putting its resources toward meeting existing statutory
requirements and deadlines. For example, two different
requirements for the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law are now six
months overdue--one to improve permitting of critical minerals
and the other to implement carbon sequestration on the Outer
Continental Shelf. Instead, the Department is prioritizing new
Administration-developed initiatives.
In my view, Interior's failures to comply with laws
Congress has passed is not a question of funding, it is a
question of misplaced priorities or perhaps a willingness to
ignore certain requirements. Madam Secretary, I raised this
issue with you at last year's budget hearing. Then, in
December, we talked about it with Mr. Beaudreau in our
Committee's infrastructure implementation hearing after
additional deadlines had been missed. So I am disappointed that
here we are again today and having the same conversation again,
and I am eager to hear from you about how you justify this 12
percent increase when the Department has not completed the
tasks at hand, but for which funding was provided. I also look
forward to talking about the Department's role in permitting,
and changes needed to the permitting process. I think we can
all agree that the five years or more it often takes major
energy or mining projects to get a permit in this country is
not acceptable.
Although let me note that I was very happy to see approval
for the Willow project after long last. This pace is clearly
too slow to achieve any of our goals, whether it be energy and
supply chain security, reducing emissions, or reinvesting in
communities impacted by the energy transition. I look forward
to hearing about how the DOI is deploying its existing
resources and current tools to help tackle this issue while
acknowledging that significant permitting reforms will have to
come from Congress.
Secretary Haaland, when it comes to these energy and
mineral programs that are so crucial to our energy and national
security, I must say, for the last few years, it has felt like
we are repeating the same conversations and having these same
talks over and over. I am tired, and I know the members of this
Committee are tired, of asking again and again when we will see
progress on the action required by law and being told ``soon''
and ``we are working on it.'' We need and deserve better
answers than that, especially given the importance of so much
of what the Department of the Interior is responsible to do. So
I am hoping that we can have a productive discussion today and
actually get some detailed answers.
And now, I am going to recognize Senator Barrasso for his
opening statement.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO,
U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING
Senator Barrasso. Well, thanks so much, Mr. Chairman.
Secretary, welcome back to the Committee.
In Wyoming, about half of our land is owned by the Federal
Government. About two-thirds of the minerals under the land are
owned by the Federal Government. The Secretary of Interior
controls access to these lands and to the minerals. And as a
result, the Secretary's decisions deeply affect the people of
Wyoming. I am sad to say that Secretary Haaland has failed the
people of Wyoming. Her assault on American energy has
contributed to soaring energy prices across the country. Her
efforts to block access to large swaths of the West have led to
lost economic opportunities, and her decisions often ignore the
law of the land.
The Secretary should be following the law. Instead of
holding quarterly oil and gas lease sales, the Secretary has
held only one lease sale in two years. Instead of approving oil
and gas permits on a timely basis, the Secretary has doubled
the length of the permitting process. Instead of setting
royalty rates at a level to boost oil and gas production, the
Secretary has raised rates to discourage production. Instead of
doing everything in her power to increase America's energy
security, the Secretary is jeopardizing our energy security,
and at the same time, our national security. The sad fact is
that the Secretary's policies undermine even President Biden's
energy goals. World demand for copper is expected to increase
by 300 percent by the year 2040. Nickel demand is expected to
increase by 1,900 percent. Cobalt demand is expected to
increase by 2,100 percent. But much of this demand will be
driven by President Biden's mandates and subsidies for electric
vehicles, for wind farms, for solar panels. Yet earlier this
year, the Secretary withdrew over 225,000 acres of federal land
from copper, nickel, and cobalt development in Minnesota. This
site contains 95 percent of our nation's nickel reserves, 88
percent of our cobalt reserves, and 34 percent of our nation's
copper reserves. Minerals from these projects could help
produce seven million electric vehicles. Yet the Secretary of
Interior is blocking projects that would produce the very
materials that are needed to support the Administration's
stated agenda.
Let's be clear: President Biden's agenda is not a
transition from dirty energy to clean energy. It is a
transition from American energy to foreign minerals. And
Secretary Haaland's policies will only expand our dependence on
our adversaries--will increase our dependence on China and on
Russia. The Secretary is also attacking multiple use of the
land. Multiple use is a decades-old, bedrock principle of
federal land management. In March, the Department of the
Interior released a proposed rule to allow entities to lease
federal lands for the purpose--not of use--but of non-use. In
other words, the Secretary wants to make ``non-use'' a use. She
is calling up ``down,'' day ``night,'' and black ``white,''
turning federal law on its head. The Secretary is giving
radicals a new tool to shut out the public. Remember,
environmental radicals don't want the public to have access to
public lands. Families and communities in Wyoming and
throughout the West depend on access to public lands for
grazing, for forest management, for recreation. The Secretary
of Interior is aggressively working to take that access away
from the public.
Finally, the Secretary is seeking to cut funding--in a
budget that has a lot more money for a lot of things--wants to
cut funding to the Bureau of Reclamation for the third year in
a row. The Bureau is responsible for delivering water to the
people of the West. In Wyoming, water sustains everything that
we do. Our ranchers and farmers produce food for all Americans.
They need to know that they are going to have enough water to
do their jobs. So in the midst of a historic drought, now is
not the time to cut the budget for the Bureau of Reclamation.
The people of Wyoming and all Americans deserve better.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Now we are going to turn to Secretary Haaland for her
opening statement.
STATEMENT OF HON. DEB HAALAND, SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF
THE INTERIOR; ACCOMPANIED BY DEPUTY SECRETARY TOMMY BEAUDREAU
AND DOI BUDGET DIRECTOR DENISE FLANAGAN
Secretary Haaland. Chairman Manchin, Ranking Member
Barrasso, and members of the Committee, thank you for the
opportunity to testify in support of Interior's FY24 budget
request. I am pleased to return to this Committee today,
accompanied by our Deputy Secretary, Tommy Beaudreau and the
Director of the Department's Budget Office, Denise Flanagan.
Our 2024 budget totals $18.9 billion in current authority, an
increase of $2 billion from the 2023 level. First, I want to
highlight several important proposals. These include
significant reforms to support the wildland fire workforce,
mandatory funding for future Indian water rights settlements,
expanding Good Neighbor and Stewardship Contracting authorities
to include the Fish and Wildlife Service and the National Park
Service, and $6.5 billion over 20 years from the Department of
State to fund economic assistance under the Compacts of Free
Association.
Let me begin with wildland fire. The 2024 budget honors
President Biden's commitment to address this issue and to
assist firefighters, supporting an additional 370 federal and
55 tribal fire personnel. Complementing the pay reforms, we
also include a $46.4 million increase for fuels management
activities above 2023. These investments are crucial, as
wildfires were noticeably higher in 2022 than the ten-year
average. Our budget's investments for Reclamation, in
combination with the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and the
Inflation Reduction Act, will ensure reliable water and power
to the American West. The Reclamation request is nearly $1.45
billion, which is anticipated to be augmented by over $2.4
billion in other funds. Priorities include WaterSMART funding
and dam safety. These funds will ensure we stay as nimble as
possible in the face of drought in a changing climate.
Stewardship of our natural resources is a core mission for
us. Interior manages about 20 percent of America's lands and is
responsible for protection and recovery of more than 2,300
endangered and threatened species. Our request covers $3.2
billion in annual funding for conservation efforts that support
key initiatives, such as wildlife corridors and youth corps
partnerships. The request also includes $140 million for fish
and wildlife service partnership programs that support
voluntary conservation on public and private lands.
At the Department, science is our foundation. The USGS
works with partners across the country to maintain 20,000
groundwater monitoring wells, 11,800 stream gages, and 3,800
earthquake sensors, and directly monitors 70 volcanoes. The
budget includes $128 million that supports nine regional USGS
Climate Adaptation Science Centers with university partners. We
are also looking forward to the Landsat Next mission, which
will take advantage of new technologies for global imaging
data.
When it comes to energy, we are excited to be on our way to
achieve the Administration's goals to deploy 30 gigawatts of
offshore wind capacity by 2030. As of last month, BOEM has
conducted 11 wind energy lease sales for areas in the Atlantic
and Pacific Oceans. That is more than 2.5 million acres of
commercial wind energy lease areas. The budget for BOEM's
Renewable Energy program includes a $12 million increase for
permitting. Onshore, BLM is also making progress to permit 25
gigawatts of renewable energy on public lands by 2025. BLM has
permitted more than 126 renewable energy projects, processed
many more, and is working to support much-needed transmission
lines. To meet these needs, we include $72 million for BLM's
renewable energy program. At the end of 2020, Interior staffing
was at a ten-year low of around 60,500. When fully enacted, the
budget would support an increase of 4,000 personnel to over
68,000. Staffing is not only important for public-facing
positions, like national parks and refuges, but also for
handling the full range of permitting matters before the
Department and meeting our trust and treaty obligations to our
country's Indian tribes.
Regarding infrastructure, our request includes more than $3
billion for operations and maintenance. In addition, there is
$1.6 billion in mandatory funding available each year through
2025 through the Legacy Restoration Fund. At the end of 2023,
our LRF program will have initiated 276 projects, touching all
50 states, Washington, DC, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin
Islands. Those projects will address $3.4 billion of our
deferred maintenance backlog, creating an average of 17,000
jobs each year.
Let me close with a few words about our Indian Affairs
budget request. This Administration has made a steadfast
commitment to strengthen government-to-government relationships
with Indian tribes. With a total request of $4.7 billion for
Indian Affairs programs, investments will address missing and
murdered indigenous peoples, the legacy of federal Indian
boarding schools, and Native language revitalization. In
response to concerns by tribal leaders for public safety in
their communities, the budget includes an increase of nearly
$86 million above 2023. We also request $1.6 billion for Indian
education programs. Notably, the 2024 request for BIE
construction will support seven school projects.
Overall, the President's budget for Interior invests in
programs to strengthen our nation for all Americans. We look
forward to doing this work together. Thank you, and we are
pleased to answer any questions.
[The prepared statement of Secretary Haaland follows:]
GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT
The Chairman. Thank you, Secretary Haaland.
I will start the questions, and my first question will be
to you. I think last year we asked you to commit that the
overdue five-year leasing program for offshore oil and gas will
actually contain lease sales. We still don't have the program
in place and we know that you don't plan to finalize the
program until December of this year at the earliest, which is
18 months late. Additionally, the Department has not started
the environmental review process for the 2024 sales, which
makes it very unlikely that you are going to do any leasing
next year in 2024 because the IRA ties wind leasing to oil and
gas. Failing to take an all-of-the-above approach to energy
security puts the Administration at risk of taking a none-of-
the-above approach. They will get nothing. That is how
important this is.
So maybe you can explain to me the time and why it is
taking so long and why your intentions are so far behind from
what we had asked for and what the law has said.
Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Chairman, for the question.
And first, I will say that the reason the five-year plan is
behind is because the previous Administration dropped the ball
and stopped working on the plan. Our staff picked it up. They
started working on it. We expect the final plan out in
September. Of course, we understand fully, we are mindful of
the provisions of the IRA, and we will follow the law with
respect to leasing. And I want to say that we are moving this
forward and we will be happy to keep you apprised of the
process.
The Chairman. My only comment on that would be that I think
the previous Administration still did leasing in a timely
fashion from what we understand, unless you have a different
calculation of that or a different review, unless you didn't
like what was done. I don't know.
Secretary Haaland. Senator, I was talking with respect to
the five-year plan. You asked why it was late.
The Chairman. Okay.
Permitting in the Department of the Interior is simply
taking too long, both for energy security goals and our
environmental goals. According to the Council on Environmental
Quality, from 2010 to 2018, DOI's environmental impact
statements averaged five years to get to a record decision--
five years. Furthermore, basic Fish and Wildlife Service
reviews that used to be completed within weeks are taking
months, while leaders from the BLM and other agencies are
blaming permitting delays on a lack of funding for staffing.
The IRA allocated $150 million to Interior, specifically
dedicated to permitting, on top of the $500 million in
conservation and resilience funding split between the National
Park Service and the Bureau of Land Management. The Department
and its agency are also able to access the IRA's $350 million
of transferrable funding from the Federal Permitting
Improvement Steering Council. Have you all spent all that
money? I mean, is it all gone and you are deficient now and
that is why you are not able to do it on time?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, thank you for the question and
of course, we understand that permitting does take a long time.
You can't just open a can and spill out a permit. It takes a
lot of research and work by the career staff, and they are
dedicated. You know that we have approved many, many permits
since the beginning of this Administration, since January 2021.
With respect to oil--to drilling permits, the applications to
drill were moved forward. There are nearly 7,000 currently
unused.
The Chairman. Do you all support, as an agency, the
permitting reforms that you are hearing on both sides of the
aisle, that Democrats and Republicans are both saying that we
need, and have you all been able to give us some ideas or some
support on how we can expedite this?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, I recognize that that is a
continuous issue and I can't speak to whether the
Administration supports or doesn't support, however, we will
continue to do our jobs and move all of those permits forward.
And we have done a tremendous amount of work, as I mentioned.
There are nearly 7,000 permits currently that are unused. They
kept processing permits since we came into office.
The Chairman. Are there any codes that we could clear up or
try to change to be helpful toward the permitting process and
expediting it? No matter what side of the fence you may be on,
an all-in energy policy means we have to do everything. And for
that, renewables are having the same challenges that fossil
fuels are, and what we are needing is a way forward if we are
going to do anything.
Secretary Haaland. Yes, thank you, Chairman. I appreciate
your willingness to help us with that issue, and of course, we
will be happy to stay in touch with your office and work
together to expedite things.
The Chairman. Senator Barrasso.
Senator Barrasso. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
Secretary Haaland, the Mineral Leasing Act requires the
Department to hold quarterly lease sales in each state with
federal oil and gas resources. That is one lease sale every
three months in each state with the resources. So in the nine
quarters since President Biden took office, the Department has
held a grand total of one lease sale in each of these states--a
single lease sale in over two years. Now, I am glad to see the
Department has now announced plans to hold lease sales in the
second and third quarters of this year. My question is, will
you commit to resuming oil and gas lease sales each and every
quarter going forward, as required by law?
Secretary Haaland. Thank you very much for the question,
Senator, and of course, we follow the law in everything we do.
We have had lease sales. We will continue to have lease sales.
I know that President Biden believes in energy independence and
we are working toward that goal.
Senator Barrasso. Well, let me just point out--you just
said we follow the law, but you have not followed the law.
Under oath during your confirmation hearings, you sat here and
you said I will absolutely follow the law, but yet, for nine
quarters since President Biden took office, the Department has
held only one lease sale. So I don't know how you consider that
following the law.
So the question again is, will you commit to resuming oil
and gas lease sales each and every quarter going forward as
required by law? Yes or no?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, we will always follow the law--
--
Senator Barrasso. You haven't been following the law. Yes
or no--please answer the question, yes or no--will you commit,
sitting here, to resuming oil and gas lease sales each and
every quarter going forward, as required by law?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, in 2022, we had lease sales in
Wyoming, Colorado, Montana, the Dakotas, Nevada, and New
Mexico----
Senator Barrasso. One lease sale, when the required law
required that you had nine quarters' worth of leases. So you
have not been following the law.
Yes or no going forward?
Secretary Haaland. We are planning 12 onshore lease sales
that are in the planning process for 2023. And we are currently
planning multiple sales in Wyoming beginning in June. Montana
and North Dakota, also beginning in June, with additional sales
in September and December. Utah, Nevada, and New Mexico,
which----
Senator Barrasso. We know what all the public land states
are. That's a good list. The question is, going forward, next
year, will you commit to following the law each and every
quarter as required by law?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, we will follow the law.
Senator Barrasso. You haven't been doing it so far.
Let me move on, Mr. Chairman.
Last month, the Bureau of Land Management proposed a
fundamental change in American land management policy. This
illegal proposal--and it is illegal and it does not follow the
law--would make non-use of lands a competing use. Your proposal
would give radical environmentalists a new tool to block
activities that are guaranteed in the law, such as grazing,
recreation, and mineral development. Please explain why you
think putting large swaths of federal lands off-limits upholds
the multiple-use mandate in the law?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, thank you very much for the
question, and the public lands rule is actually a proposed
draft rule currently in public comment period that would
essentially put conservation on equal footing with our multi-
use mandate. It would not foreclose other uses of our public
lands such as grazing or mining or energy development.
Senator Barrasso. Well, the so-called public lands rule
that you referred to is nothing more than a thinly veiled
attempt to eliminate economic activities on federal lands in
Wyoming and across the West, and I would strongly urge you to
withdraw this disastrous and illegal proposal.
Next, earlier this year, you blocked access to federal
minerals in an area that contains 88 percent of our nation's
known cobalt reserves. Cobalt is a critical mineral necessary
for electric vehicle batteries. Do you know where most of the
world's cobalt is mined today?
Secretary Haaland. I beg your pardon, sir?
Senator Barrasso. Do you know where most of the world's
cobalt is mined today?
Secretary Haaland. I am sure you will tell me, Senator.
Senator Barrasso. Well, it is the Democratic Republic of
the Congo. So in your view, does the Congo or the United States
have better environmental standards?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, the United States has better
environmental standards and better worker standards.
Senator Barrasso. So in your view, does the Congo or the
U.S. have better protection against child labor?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, with respect to the issue you
are speaking of, I assume that it is the Boundary Waters
watershed, and that was put to us as a copper mine, not as a
cobalt mine.
Senator Barrasso. So why are you blocking access, though,
to our nation's cobalt resources? You can't possibly be willing
to ignore what is taking place in the Congo. It has been all
over the news for years. Here are a couple of headlines in
terms of the mine that you blocked. National Public Radio,
``How `Modern-Day Slavery' in the Congo Powers the Rechargeable
Battery Economy.'' The Independent, `` `Here it is better not
to be born': Cobalt mining for Big Tech is driving child labor
and deaths in the Congo.'' The Guardian, `` `Like slave and
master': DRC miners toil for 30 pence an hour to fuel electric
cars.'' The New York Times, Newsweek, go after any of them.
Again, why are you blocking access to our nation's cobalt
resources, because that is what you have done?
[Poster with aforementioned headlines and quotes follows:]
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Secretary Haaland. Senator, near the Boundary Waters
watershed, it was put to us as a copper mine. Copper is not a
critical mineral in this country.
Senator Barrasso. This is a mineral that is needed to
fulfill the President's goal on electric vehicles. It's
straightforward. You can't get critical minerals without
mining. Mining in America is better for our economy. It's
better for the environment. It's better for the people of the
world. You need to stop blocking access to our nation's
resources.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Heinrich.
Senator Heinrich. Secretary, you mentioned the progress
that has been made in offshore wind leasing. When do you expect
the first utility-scale offshore wind projects to actually be
permitted?
Secretary Haaland. Thank you for the question, Senator. If
you could just give me one second.
Senator Heinrich. Sure.
Secretary Haaland. Well, I can tell you that the transition
to clean energy is a priority for this Administration. It is a
priority for us. We are working on all fronts to move all of
those forward. If it is anything in particular, of course, we
are happy to stay in touch with you, but we plan on meeting the
Administration's goal to deploy 30 gigawatts of offshore wind
energy by 2030.
Senator Heinrich. So to meet the 2030 guideline will
require a number of projects to actually make it through the
permitting pipeline. Are you on track to do that?
Secretary Haaland. We believe we are. It is--we believe we
are.
Senator Heinrich. Do you have a sense for what year the
first projects would be permitted?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, if it is okay, our staff will
get back with you.
Senator Heinrich. Okay.
Secretary Haaland. When we have a specific----
Senator Heinrich. I think there are a lot of steps in
between leasing and permitting, and I am concerned that the
progress and the economics have changed in ways that put a lot
of those projects potentially at risk. So I would love an
update on the specifics of making it through the permitting
process with respect to those leases.
Thanks to the STOP Act, which was signed into law in
December, it is finally illegal for people to export tribal
religious items for sale in foreign markets. And as you know
all too well, these items have been illegal to sell in the U.S.
for decades, but frankly, until December, sellers could take
them out of the country and put them in auction houses
overseas. Tell us about what the Department is doing to
implement the STOP Act.
Secretary Haaland. Thank you for the question and thank
you, Senator, for your hard work on this important issue. So
right now we are focused on the tribal consultation process and
the rulemaking mandated by the statute. We have five
consultation sessions starting in May through August to hear
from tribes. And as a result, we should have a detailed plan
regarding office and regulations by the end of the year.
Senator Heinrich. Thank you.
As you work to also implement the Great American Outdoors
Act, I am still concerned about bottlenecks that threaten some
of the conservation gains that we all expect from permanent
Land and Water Conservation Fund funding. And specifically, in
last year's spending bill, Congress directed the Department of
the Interior to evaluate a wide variety of potential
improvements to the appraisal process, including returning some
appraisal functions back to individual bureaus. Can you tell us
about the progress that you have made so far to improve the
appraisal process?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, thank you so much, and I
appreciate the question. Yes, there are difficult roadblocks
that we are tackling. We stood up the DOI-wide working group
that reports to the DOI leadership. We are identifying root
causes and changes with near-term results. We are also building
capacity. We have done some innovative recruiting and using
increased pay rate authority to help, you know, get a team
together. We have increased the number of appraisers. There are
105 on board. It is the highest since the Appraisal and
Valuation Services Office was created. And of course, there is
a focus on customer service to make sure that we are meeting
people where they are.
Senator Heinrich. Have you looked at returning some of
those appraisal functions back to individual bureaus?
Secretary Haaland. I couldn't answer that at the moment,
Senator, but we are moving forward and it is under review.
Senator Heinrich. Have you submitted the report on this
topic that was due to Congress in March?
Secretary Haaland. I--I beg your pardon. Sorry, we are
continually briefing the Committee, thank you. We have a whole
team here that does these things.
Senator Heinrich. Sure.
Secretary Haaland. We are continually briefing the
Committees and we are happy to stay in touch with you as soon
as it is done.
Senator Heinrich. That is different than--we asked for a
written report on this process. Has that been submitted to the
Congress?
Secretary Haaland. I could not give you a date at the
moment, Senator, but we are happy to follow up with your
office.
Senator Heinrich. But you expect to submit that?
Secretary Haaland. Yes, yes.
Senator Heinrich. Okay.
Thank you, Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Now we have Senator Risch.
Senator Risch. Well, thank you very much.
Secretary, thank you for coming. As you know, the Federal
Government owns two out of every three acres in Idaho--67
percent--so it is always interesting to meet with the person
who actually has more to say and more control over our lands
than Idahoans do. So thank you for coming.
I want to focus on one thing today--one thing and one thing
only--and that is the Lava Ridge Wind Project in Idaho. Have
you heard of it?
Secretary Haaland. Yes.
Senator Risch. Okay. You have heard of it because
Congressman Simpson, Congressman Fulcher, twice this year, have
raised it with you in hearings, is that right?
Secretary Haaland. Yes, I believe so.
Senator Risch. And they told me that at that time, you did
not know anything about it, but that you were going to look
into it. Is that a fair statement?
Secretary Haaland. Yes, I suppose.
Senator Risch. Okay. So what have you found out?
Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Senator. And----
Senator Risch. You don't need to thank me, just answer the
question.
Secretary Haaland. Well, thank you for the question.
Senator Risch. Well----
Secretary Haaland. The BLM has been engaged with
stakeholders, including the state, local counties, grazing
permittees, and other federal agencies early on in the process.
It is coordinated with the Idaho Resource Advisory Council and
the Lava Ridge Wind Project, our RAC subcommittee, and the BLM
has also coordinated with DOI's Collaborative Action and
Dispute Resolution staff to engage stakeholders with ties to
the Minidoka Historical Site.
Senator Risch. That's great.
What did you find out with all this coordination and
discussion and meetings?
Secretary Haaland. We are going to continue to engage.
Senator Risch. No, no, what did you find out?
Secretary Haaland. Well, I think the conversations are
ongoing, Senator.
Senator Risch. Well, what did you find out so far? Nothing?
Secretary Haaland. The conversations are ongoing. We are--
--
Senator Risch. What did you find out so far?
Secretary Haaland. I don't have a complete readout of all
the meetings.
Senator Risch. Give me an incomplete readout. What did you
find out so far?
Secretary Haaland. Well, I think they are gaining insight
into how the community feels and what they have to say.
Senator Risch. And what have you found out so far?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, I am happy to update you as
time goes on.
Senator Risch. Yes, all right. Let me help you out here--
try to get you some information on this. Do you know how many
acres are involved in this?
Secretary Haaland. I beg your pardon?
Senator Risch. Do you know how many acres are involved in
this?
Secretary Haaland. I don't have the number.
Senator Risch. It is 146,000 acres. Do you consider that a
fairly significant piece of real estate?
Secretary Haaland. I think 146,000 acres is a large
acreage, yes.
Senator Risch. It is. They are talking about 378 turbines.
The smallest ones are just slightly bigger than the Statue of
Liberty. The largest turbines are--have you ever been to
Seattle?
Secretary Haaland. Yes, sir.
Senator Risch. Have you seen the space tower--or excuse
me--the space needle?
Secretary Haaland. I don't think I have seen the space
needle----
Senator Risch. Well, the needle, whatever it is called, the
big, tall building there?
Secretary Haaland. No, I have not.
Senator Risch. Okay. Well, the largest turbines will be 100
feet taller than this structure in Seattle. Now, I know the
Administration is interested in renewable energy, and I think
everybody in Congress is also. This will turn out about 1,000
megawatts of power. Idaho already puts out 75 percent of its
energy generated using renewable power. It's a combination of a
number of things--falling water, nuclear, and other things.
It's stunning to us that you would think of 146,000 acres for
1,000 megawatts. And let me tell you why. We are, in the next
24 to 36 months, we are going to be turning on three small
modular reactors. Thirty-six acres. Thirty-six acres, and it
will put out about the same as this 146,000 acres. I know you
love the land. Everybody does. I want you to take a quick look
at this picture, a rendering of what the landscape out there
will look like.
Kayla, could you hand that to her for me, please?
[The rendering referred to follows:]
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Senator Risch. And I want you to look at this closely. Look
at the horizon where you can see these structures coming up and
tell me if that's your vision of what public lands should look
like. And by the way, that is a view from the Minidoka
Historical Site. Do you know what the Minidoka Historical Site
is?
Secretary Haaland. I have not been there, Senator.
Senator Risch. Do you know what it is?
Secretary Haaland. It is a historical site.
Senator Risch. Well, let me tell you what it's a historical
site for. It was one of the detention sites during World War II
for Japanese people, of which we have a significant population
in Idaho. This land means a lot to them. This is what it looks
like from there. Tell me. Look at the horizon and tell me, is
that your vision for what public lands should look like?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, did you say this is a
rendering?
Senator Risch. It is.
Secretary Haaland. So they put--so they superimposed those
on?
Senator Risch. Exactly. By looking at that you can stand at
the historical site and look to the horizon and see what your,
mine, our public lands, will look like with--on this 146,000
acres. Is that your vision of what public lands should look
like?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, I think there are a lot of
visions for public lands across----
Senator Risch. Nah, nah, no, no, no. Don't give me that. Is
that your vision for what public lands should look like in
America?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, we have millions of acres of
public lands all over the country and they all look different.
Senator Risch. Do you like that?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, I understand what you are
saying and I want you to know that we care deeply about the--we
listen to people. We get their input.
Senator Risch. I am glad you are listening to people
because let me tell you who you should be listening to. First
of all, you have a Resource Advisory Council, a RAC Committee
there, do you not?
Secretary Haaland. Yes.
Senator Risch. Do you know what they've said about this?
Your council, do you know what they said, unanimously, about
this?
Secretary Haaland. Please tell me, Senator.
Senator Risch. Don't do it. We have a legislature in Idaho.
Republicans and Democrats. They passed a resolution in both the
House and the Senate, unanimously, bipartisan. You know what
they said?
Secretary Haaland. Don't do it?
Senator Risch. You got it. That's exactly what they said.
There is a resolution by the seven Idaho counties that are
involved in this. All seven of them passed a unanimous
resolution. You know what they said? Don't do it.
There have been letters signed, unanimously, by the Friends
of Minidoka and the large Japanese American community, inside
and outside of Idaho, and you know what they said? Don't do it.
You received a letter from myself, the Governor, the rest
of our delegation and we have said the same thing--don't do it.
[Letters, resolutions, and other items related to the Lava
Ridge Wind Project follow:]
GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT
Senator Risch. So let me close with this--don't do it.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator, appreciate it.
Senator Hirono.
Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Secretary Haaland, I first want to thank you for the
Department's financial support to help save Hawaii's remaining
native forest birds. I am hopeful that the strong partnership
with federal, state, and non-profit partners will advance key
actions to prevent the extinction of these culturally and
ecologically significant birds. In the last few months, there
have been many hearings in the state legislature relating to
the efforts to save our endangered birds, and this engagement
of our local youth and native Hawaiians in particular has been
very important. It has been very moving because these are young
people who are passionate about their desire to save these
remaining native birds. So as DOI looks to FY 2024, can you
talk briefly about the Department's plans and resources needed
to continue supporting these efforts?
Secretary Haaland. Thank you very much, Senator. And of
course, we recognize the importance of Hawaii's birds to the
ecology and what they bring to the forests and to the culture
of the Hawaiian Islands. The bill funding has been critical for
this effort to prevent the extinction of birds imperiled by
avian malaria, and so, you know, further support of the work we
are doing will allow us to move forward with a multi-agency
strategy to address this disease, and coordination among
federal agencies and with the Native Hawaiian community, the
State of Hawaii, and other partners is critical to finish this
job.
Senator Hirono. Thank you. So what I am hearing is that you
will pay continued attention and provide support----
Secretary Haaland. Absolutely.
Senator Hirono. For saving our endangered birds.
Secretary Haaland. Yes.
Senator Hirono. I am working with my colleagues to ensure
that the Compacts of Free Association for the Marshall Islands,
the Republic of Palau, and the Federated States of Micronesia
are in place before financial support begins to expire at the
end of this fiscal year, and I note that your testimony
mentions the importance of this financial support. I would like
to point out though, we also need to restore in the Compacts
the ability of the Compact citizens who are living in our
country, throughout our states, not just Hawaii, but in
Arkansas and in other states throughout our country, that we
need to restore access to federal benefits for these COFA
citizens, and I would like to have that restoration language
put in the Compact. So this is not just funding the Compacts to
the countries themselves, but also to enable the citizens
living in our country the kind of support that they should be
entitled to.
So I would like to work with you on making sure that this
language is included in the Compacts, which, by the way, is
critical to our national defense, and DOD is well aware of how
important the Compacts are to our own national security. This
is a situation in which there are three agencies that are
involved--that is Interior, because it is our Committee that
approves these Compacts; then we have the DOD, which is the
major beneficiary, not to mention our country--beneficiary of
the national security provided under these Compacts; and then,
the State Department. And that is why all three administrative
agencies need to come together to restore the eligibility for
the social services programs that are so important.
So I would like to be able to work with you to talk with
you about how we can go forward.
I also wanted to thank you for your commitment to engaging
with the indigenous communities, including the Native Hawaiian
communities, and in particular, the recent announcement from
the Department's Office of Native Hawaiian Relations that
another $1 million will be available for Native Hawaiian
organizations to utilize through the Heritage Opportunities in
Hawaii Grant Program. And this program is designed to enhance
the tourism industry with the vibrant aspects of the Native
Hawaiian community in a sustainable and equitable way.
I know that you know how important tourism is to Hawaii's
economy, but I also know that so many of the tourists who come
to Hawaii very much appreciate their ability to experience the
Native Hawaiian culture, and so, while we need to work to
enhance our support for tourism, this has to be done through a
lot of sensitivity to the interests of the Native Hawaiian
community and also our environment. I would like to ask you to
continue to make sure that those aspects are very much paid
attention to as we go forward.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Daines.
Senator Daines. Chairman, thank you.
Grizzly bears have now exceeded--exceeded--recovery targets
in both the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem and the Northern
Continental Divide Ecosystems and bear numbers well over the
objectives set by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Grizzlies
are ranging farther off the Rocky Mountain front into Central
Montana, where they haven't been seen for over a century. It is
past time to celebrate this recovery, delist the bears, and
return the management back to the states. Fish and Wildlife
Service scientists have twice found that the Greater
Yellowstone Ecosystem bears have recovered and delisted them,
but courts have prevented delisting from going into effect.
Secretary Haaland, I am confident that the career
scientists will find yet for a third time in just the past 17
years that the Greater Yellowstone bears have recovered. When
that happens, will you support legislation to codify the Fish
and Wildlife Service's delisting to prevent legal uncertainty?
Secretary Haaland. Thank you for the question, Senator. And
as you said, the courts require us to look at the species
population as a whole, and even though they have recovered in
some areas, it is not true for every area----
Senator Daines. So the question, specifically, was the
Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem.
Secretary Haaland. Well, it is good news that yes, the
grizzly bear is recovering, as I said, in some areas.
Senator Daines. Wait a minute. I want to say--recovering--
have the grizzly bears exceeded the target in the Greater
Yellowstone Ecosystem in population?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, yes, as I mentioned, the
grizzly bears are recovering in some areas. In other areas,
they are not. It requires us to look at the grizzly bear
population as a whole.
Senator Daines. I understand. But you are not answering my
question. The specific question is the Greater Yellowstone
Ecosystem, and you said they have recovered. So given that we
agree that they have recovered, will you support legislation to
codify Fish and Wildlife Service delisting to prevent this
legal uncertainty?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, we will follow the science and
the law. I know Director Williams and her staff take this role
very seriously. Also, the Endangered Species Act has been a
lifesaver for many species. We will continue to follow the
science and the law with respect to grizzly bears.
Senator Daines. Well, I am glad we agree that the grizzlies
have recovered in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, and
additionally, would you commit to keeping the Fish and Wildlife
Service to that 12-month review timeline?
Secretary Haaland. I will be happy to update you on any
reviews that the Fish and Wildlife Service are responsible for.
They work very hard.
Senator Daines. The question was, will you commit to the
12-month timeline--would you commit to working together to get
that done in 12 months?
Secretary Haaland. I know they work very hard to meet their
obligations.
Senator Daines. That is not an answer. Will you commit to
the 12-month timeline that has been laid out by statute?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, we work very hard to meet our
timeline. We will commit to the science and the law.
Senator Daines. That is not an answer. Secretary Haaland, I
am saying, will you commit to that, just to work together to
meet the 12-month statutory timeline?
Secretary Haaland. Thank you. We will do our best, Senator.
Senator Daines. That is not an answer, but thank you.
On March 31, the Bureau of Land Management published the
text for a proposed rule that fundamentally alters the Agency's
management of public lands under the Federal Land Management
Policy Act. I have significant concerns with that proposed
rule. You would hurt Montanans by threatening multiple uses,
such as ranching, mining, logging, and outdoor recreation that
are all a part of our Montana way of life. Conservation is
vital, but this proposal hinders conservation by rushing
forward with ill-conceived, vague, and rather opaque plans. My
question is this--grazing on federal lands provides billions of
dollars each year in ecosystem services, wildlife habitat,
recreational opportunities, clean air, clean water, things that
certainly can be quantified. I am concerned that your
Department feels the need to attempt to separate these multiple
uses from any ``conservation value.'' In your opinion, does
grazing provide conservation benefit?
Secretary Haaland. The proposed public lands rule would not
foreclose any other uses of public lands, such as grazing.
Senator Daines. Do you think that grazing has a
conservation benefit?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, I want you to know that the
public lands rule that you are so concerned about will not
foreclose any other uses. All it does is put conservation on an
equal footing with the multi-use mandate that we have.
Senator Daines. In closing, Secretary Haaland, I know your
team, by the way, is working with the Fort Belknap Tribe to
finalize language in their water rights settlement. This has
been a battle we have had in Montana for many, many years, and
I am very glad to see we are making progress moving forward. I
would urge you to quickly wrap up discussion so that we can
introduce--I am going to introduce that bill and finally get
that settlement signed into law. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
I have a request to introduce into the record some
literature concerning the turbine size comparison.
Any objections?
Without objection.
[The turbine size comparison chart follows:]
[ GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT
The Chairman. And now, we have Senator Cortez Masto.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Madam Secretary, it is good to see you. Thank you for being
here. And thank you for working with me and other members of
the Nevada delegation on the designation of the Avi Kwa Ame
National Monument in Southern Nevada. It was great to see you
and your team there. As you know, this is very important to
local tribes for its cultural significance. Likewise, one of my
top priorities in Congress, as both a member of this Committee
and as a member of the Senate Indian Affairs Committee, has
been to engage with tribal nations to help address their needs,
but also to advance their priorities around protection of
places of cultural and historic importance.
Last week, on April 26th, I sent you a letter along with my
fellow Nevada Senator, Jacky Rosen, in support of the proposed
Bahsahwahbee, or Swamp Cedars National Monument.
[The letter referred to follows:]
GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT
Senator Cortez Masto. For years, this area for our tribes
has been a site of extreme significance, where nearly 1,000 of
their ancestors were killed during the 19th century massacres
that took place during religious gatherings. It is also home to
the sacred and ecologically unique grove of juniper trees in
our state. I support creating this monument, but I will note
there are existing land-use conflicts that will require
engagement with all of the impacted stakeholders, including
those with interest in renewable energy development,
transmission, grazing, water rights, and others. My question to
you, Madam Secretary, is, will you join me in supporting this
monument, and will you work with me and my constituents in
determining how best to preserve and commemorate this sacred
place?
Secretary Haaland. Thank you very much, Senator, for your
support of Indian Country in Nevada. And yes, we are going to
give this our close attention. Thank you for the letter. And we
will learn more as time goes on, but certainly, as you know
with Avi Kwa Ame, the best conservation is community-led
conservation. And so we are going to have all those
conversations and make sure that we pay close attention.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. I appreciate that. And
thank you again. Listen, we are not going to always agree on
everything. Of all of the western states, over 80 percent of
the land is owned by the Federal Government. We have to work
together, and I think there is an opportunity for us to work
together, but I am also going to challenge you when I disagree
with the BLM.
Secretary Haaland. Absolutely.
Senator Cortez Masto. But I think we can be civil and do so
without being condescending or badgering. I also think that for
the purposes that you are dealing with right now, it must be
challenging, all right, I would say you have whiplash, because
I hear from my Republican colleagues about the importance of
Biden's clean energy economy when they did not support the
legislation in the first place. So I appreciate what you are
trying to do.
I am going to hold you accountable where I see that you
should be. One of those areas is where Senator Daines just
talked about, which is the conservation lease rule on grazing.
As you know, there is a lot of grazing in Nevada. The proposed
rule includes three management changes. The ranching/grazing
community in my state has expressed concern that this could be
a way to limit grazing. They are also upset they were not
consulted prior to the proposed rule's release. And so, my
question to you is, the BLM recently released a proposed rule
to elevate the conservation to be on the same footing. You have
talked about this. But how will you be working with the
ranching community to preserve their ability to continue to use
the land when you have not sought their input?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, as you know, it is a proposed
and a draft rule currently. It is under public comment, and so
we expect all of, you know, everyone to comment, if they would
like to. It is not a final rule by any means. And as I
mentioned earlier, it would not foreclose other uses of the
multi-use mandate for public lands, and grazing is one of
those.
Senator Cortez Masto. Well, I am going to be watching and
holding you accountable to that.
Secretary Haaland. Absolutely.
Senator Cortez Masto. Because it is such an important issue
in my state and across the West, as you have heard, and we have
to make sure our cattle ranchers and our ranchers and farmers,
their voices are heard and their businesses are not going to be
limited in any way, whatsoever.
Secretary Haaland. Yes. And Senator, if I could say, of
course, the work that they do is contingent on a healthy
ecosystem. They need healthy grass to grow if they want to move
their businesses forward and we recognize that as well.
Senator Cortez Masto. And thank you, because I know, of the
ranchers and farmers in my state, they are environmentalists,
for the very reason that you just said. They know the land
better than anyone because they live off the land and have for
generations. So thank you.
One other area I want to talk about is, in the past, the
Interior Department has wasted a considerable amount of time
and resources on oil and gas leases that generate little
returns for American taxpayers. I know the Department has
issued guidance on how BLM plans to implement reforms to the
oil and gas leasing systems from the IRA, some of which are
expected to cut down on wasteful leasing practices. Yet, as the
current system still stands, 90 percent of the federal lands
and minerals that BLM manages across the West are open to oil
and gas leasing, and yet a vast majority of those lands have
little to no potential for oil and gas development. This is a
conversation that I constantly have with BLM. They are wasting
their time on some of these claims that there is oil and gas
when we know there is not, when the resources could be put
somewhere else.
So as DOI moves forward with the proposed rulemaking, how
do you plan to address the availability of land with low
development potential for leasing?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, thank you for the question. And
of course, this is an important issue. We are implementing the
provisions in the Inflation Reduction Act, like fees on
expressions of interest. So if you charge people for an
expression of their interest, they are going to think twice
about, you know, having it all. So we feel that that will help
to reduce the speculative leasing that is happening.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Hoeven.
Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Secretary, I would like to pick up on a question that
Senator Cortez Masto just asked you. She asked, you know, why
spend time on land--BLM land--with federal lands that have low
potential for leasing for energy development. So I am going to
ask you the other side of that--the converse. Why are you
blocking development on land that has high potential for energy
development? Right now, you have issued a draft resource
management plan that affects my State of North Dakota. It will
block 45 percent of the potential federal oil and gas acreage
and 95 percent of the federal coal acreage. So you know, she
asked the question, well, why would you waste your time on
lands that are not going to be leased for energy, but why are
you blocking the development on lands that can produce energy
at a time when gasoline prices are higher and we need more
electricity and more baseload dependability for our grid, and
you are blocking the federal leases that we need to produce
that energy? Why is that?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, I would say that there is a
process that we go through when we think about the lease sales
that we have to have. It is not so much blocking as it is
assessing what lands are available and which lands should be up
for lease.
Senator Hoeven. But you are not putting them up for lease.
You not only are blocking development, you have raised royalty
rates, and as a result, energy prices are higher. Why wouldn't
you allow our energy producers to produce more energy here at
home to bring prices down at the pump, to reduce prices for
hardworking consumers across America?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, oil production is at an all-
time high on federal public lands here in our country. There is
a lot that goes into determining the price of gas. If it were
just supply, then prices would be low right now because we are
doing our jobs, and that is the truth. There is more oil that
is being produced currently than there ever has been in our
country.
Senator Hoeven. No, no, no.
What you like to refer to is because New Mexico had a lot
of leases that were leased out prior to your Administration and
they are now being developed. There is a spike in New Mexico on
federal development, but states like mine are down. My state is
down a half a million barrels. We have gone from 1.5 million
barrels a day and we are down to about a million to 1.1 million
day, and overall, the production in the United States is down
under this Administration, not up. So I know you want to do
that selectively to try to make your case, but it doesn't work.
Prices are higher.
We had Secretary Granholm in front of us and she agreed
with me that more supply helps bring prices down. So prices are
higher. So tell me, do you think more supply brings prices down
or not? Would you agree with that or not?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, in 2022, oil production on
federal lands in North Dakota was higher than in 2020.
Senator Hoeven. But our total production is down half a
million barrels because we are blocked from producing more on
the federal lands, which you are now blocking us from doing.
And remember, there is a lag between when you lease, when you
get the drilling permit, and when you get the production. Okay,
so by your logic then, by raising royalty rates and blocking
production, which, again, you add more regulations to keep
blocking us. You are saying that produces more supply. That is
your argument. By blocking production on federal lands and
increasing royalty rates, your argument is that is producing
more energy?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, there is a process, of course
to----
Senator Hoeven. No, just, if you would just answer my
question, please.
Secretary Haaland. Oil production is up. Oil production on
federal lands is at an all time----
Senator Hoeven. Okay. So when you provide a lease, the very
same day the production starts. Is that your argument?
Secretary Haaland. No, Senator, obviously----
Senator Hoeven. So if there is a whole lag process here and
you are utilizing that to make an argument, you are also
select--again, back to my question. So your policies to
restrict development--the Chairman, his opening question to you
was when are you going to allow production offshore?
My whole question to you is, by blocking production and
raising royalty rates, which is your policy, do you feel that
produces more supply and lower energy prices? And the
corollary--and actually, this time if you would please answer
the question, and also, would you rather get that energy here
at home where we have the best environmental standards or would
you rather continue blocking it here at home and get it from
places like Venezuela and other adversaries like OPEC?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, as I mentioned earlier, there
are nearly 7,000 permits across the country that are not being
used. Companies have nearly 400 approved permits to drill on
federal lands and Indian land in North Dakota that they have
not used. There are 226 approved permits on federal land and
166 approved permits on Indian land in North Dakota. So I am
happy to----
Senator Hoeven. Many of which are blocked by your
regulation or the courts where they have to litigate. You don't
get a lease and produce it the next day, Madam Secretary. Would
you agree with that at least?
Secretary Haaland. Well, of course, and that is why, when
the applications for permits to drill come into the Department,
our staff works very hard to move those forward and they have
done that since January 2021. They have moved those
applications forward, and that is the reason why there are
nearly 7,000 unused permits in our country.
Senator Hoeven. Then why are energy prices higher at the
pump?
Secretary Haaland. I think there is a lot that goes into
determine the cost of gasoline, Senator. I think you know that
as well.
Senator Hoeven. The consumer still pulls up to that pump
and pays a lot more, and we need more supply.
Secretary Haaland. And I understand. I raised my child as a
single mom. I know what it is like to not have enough money to
either pay your rent or pay your student loans or buy
groceries. I get that. And that is why we are working hard at
the Department to move our goals forward, to move these issues
forward. There are 226 approved permits on federal land in
North Dakota.
Senator Hoeven. Mr. Chairman, one final question.
A federal district judge has now ordered that you continue
lease sales on a quarterly basis. Are you going to do it? He
has ordered you to continue the quarterly lease auctions that
you are holding up. Will you comply with the court order?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, we will follow the law to the
best of our ability. Thank you.
Senator Hoeven. Thank you.
The Chairman. Senator King.
Senator King. Thank you.
Madam Secretary, first I want to compliment the guy who is
sitting to your right, Deputy Beaudreau, who was in Maine over
the weekend, and through the implementation of the Great
American Outdoors Act, to celebrate the building of a
maintenance shed at Acadia National Park, which was desperately
needed. A maintenance building, I should say, much more than a
shed, but the point being that maintenance is important. And
one thing that worries me about the National Park budget--as
you know, we passed the Great American Outdoors Act and it was
an incredible accomplishment to buy down the deferred
maintenance in the National Park System. My concern is that
although the budget seems to be moving slowly in the right
direction, we are still way under where we should be in terms
of maintenance funding. The rule of thumb in industry is you
should be setting aside for maintenance two to four percent of
your asset value. I think the National Park Service is at one
percent, maybe. So I just commend to you for future budget
consideration, we can't pass a Great American Outdoors Act
every four or five years. And we can't keep digging the
maintenance hole deeper. I hope that you will join me in being
committed to that, to maintaining our public facilities rather
than hoping to bail them out every so often.
Secretary Haaland. Yes, of course. Having a handle on the
backlog is certainly important to us. It is critically
important. In fact, I am happy that Tommy was there. He
actually stayed a little bit longer than he anticipated because
of the plane situation.
Senator King. Well, that is because he saw what a
spectacular place Acadia National Park is.
Secretary Haaland. But yes, the deferred maintenance
backlog for last year was approximately $30 billion, and that
is a decrease of $778 million from the year before. We know it
is still significant, but we are working on it.
Senator King. Well, my suggestion is, stop digging the hole
by adequately funding maintenance on an ongoing basis. That is
important.
The second issue, and I think the Chairman may have touched
on this, is permitting reform. We are not going to achieve our
clean energy goals without permit reform. The Inflation
Reduction Act cannot be implemented as long as environmentally
sound projects are being in an endless cycle of permitting
hell. I hope that the Administration will join us, as many of
us are working on permitting reform, not to lower the
environmental standards, but to develop practical, realistic
processes to accelerate the process, and deadlines--meaningful
deadlines--shortened and having one agency in charge. Are you
committed and will you join us in an effort to achieve
environmentally sound permitting reform in order to achieve
long-term environmental goals?
Secretary Haaland. Absolutely, Senator. Thank you. We are
really working to do things in the right way, and of course,
comply with our obligations at the same time, and we do that by
making sure that folks are at the table from the beginning so
that we don't have to go back and correct something.
Senator King. That has been my experience. If people are at
the table early and you can resolve these issues, then the
process can continue in some kind of rational time. We are in a
race with climate change and we can't afford 10 or 15 years to
permit a transmission line or a pumped storage project or other
environmental projects. What worries me is that we are viewing
permitting over here in a kind of traditional way without being
cognizant of the fact that in order to get where we want to get
environmentally, we have to build things, and that is not the
mindset that has been held, historically. So I hope you will
work with us on this. I think it is critically important,
again, to get to a clean energy future.
One quick question. The RISEE Act, which talked about the
allocation of offshore revenues, passed out of this Committee
last year, and I hope the Department can support that bill as
reported by the Committee. I know you had reservations as it
was originally introduced, but I want to inquire about the
position of the Administration on the bill as reported.
Secretary Haaland. Senator, thank you so much for the
question. Of course, we understand that this is an important
issue for coastal states, and we certainly do want to support
coastal states. I know the support of it requires more
conversations with the Administration, and we are willing to
have those conversations, and I look forward to working with
you and the Committee.
Senator King. Well, I want to point out that we are not
only talking about oil and gas, we are now talking about
offshore wind.
Secretary Haaland. Indeed.
Senator King. Which could be a significant resource for the
coastal states, and so we will look forward to working with you
on that. But I would specifically--you can take this for the
record--like to get the Administration's position on the RISEE
Act as reported last year. I believe it is something you can
and should support, but I would like to have that on the
record.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
And now, we have Senator Murkowski.
Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Madam Secretary, welcome back. You are not going to be
surprised with the focus of my questions--all Alaska all the
time, and let's start with King Cove. I do appreciate the
engagement that your team had. The Deputy Secretary and--going
out there, having the conversations. So recognizing that there
has been some time that has elapsed now on these discussions,
and your previous commitment directly to me and to Deputy
Secretary Beaudreau's commitment that you will work to help the
people of King Cove achieve a land exchange as well as this
life-saving road that we have been talking about to Cold Bay.
Can you give me any update on when you expect a
supplemental EIS by the Department on this?
Secretary Haaland. Thank you, Senator. And the notice of
intent for the draft supplemental environmental impact
statement will be published very soon. I know that doesn't give
you a specific date, but they are working on it and I believe
it is in draft form at the moment.
Senator Murkowski. Okay. I think we have all recognized
that the schedule that we have discussed is a very aggressive
one, and so the priority in advancing and meeting these
benchmarks--timeline benchmarks, if you will--is
extraordinarily important. And so I would just ask again that
there be an imperative on moving quickly and efficiently, but
also thoroughly.
Secretary Haaland. Yes. Yes, Senator.
Senator Murkowski. Thank you.
Let me turn then to another request for information on
deadlines, and this relates to the Ambler Access Project. A
couple months ago, I asked the BLM State Director for a
concrete timeline to complete the additional analysis that was
requested in that voluntary remand. Do you have a timeline for
me that you can provide this morning?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, what I can say is that the next
court filing is expected later this month, and any update will
be provided to you then. We are happy to keep you informed.
Senator Murkowski. So would you anticipate that BLM should
have a record of decision (ROD) signed by the end of this year
as has been promised previously in this Committee?
Secretary Haaland. Yes, that continues to be the--yes, the
ROD by the end of 2023. That continues to be the plan.
Senator Murkowski. Good. Okay. That is the plan. We would,
again, like to hear your commitment that you will seek to
remain firm with this commitment because, again, I think most
people would acknowledge that a timeline to study and permit a
gravel road project in Alaska does not need to extend past
seven years, and that is where we have been on this project.
Another issue that is, of course, very, very familiar to
you is the BLM/BIA conveyance and our Alaska Native veteran
allotments issue. We had a chance to speak about this in
Interior Appropriations, but I continue to remain concerned
that the agencies don't have the capacity to meet the task of
getting these allotment applications completed before the
program expires in the end of December 2025. I want to make
sure that they have the resources that they need. We got $4.9
million in Interior last year. I am glad that the budget
request continues that, but given the resources that you now
have, what's the timeline for ensuring that all these
applicants will have their applications processed within the
deadline that we established under the Dingell Act?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, thank you very much for the
question, and of course, you know this is a priority for us. We
appreciate your support on the $5 million so that BLM can
continue its work. I mean, we are making progress, and I have
to believe that as we move forward that, like the first few,
yes, they took a long time, but we should get a process down,
and it will move more quickly. The Department of Veterans
Affairs is helping us to locate veterans that we have not yet
had a chance to locate because their contact information is not
correct. And so currently, they are in process. A total of 266
applications have been received. There are 95 in the survey
process currently. We have issued eight certificates already
and we are working with Veterans Affairs to get the contact
information for 371 eligible veterans.
Senator Murkowski. Well, there are some 2,900 veterans that
we are focused on. I think you recognize that the number that
is out there versus the number that have actually received
their full allotments, it just doesn't measure up. And as we
all know, our veterans are aging and passing. And so making
sure that, again, there is an imperative to this, and my voice
is calm, but you know, I hope you feel it in your heart that
this is one where we have failed our veterans. And it is not
just this Administration that has made multiple promises, it is
other Administrations before. And we have failed our veterans
in being able to keep this commitment to them.
And so every day is important. Every dollar that we send
this direction to get these agencies moving on this is
important. And so I keep asking it. We keep pressing it as a
delegation. We keep hearing commitments, but we need to get
these veterans their due.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you.
And now we have Senator Hickenlooper.
Senator Hickenlooper. Just in a nick of time. Thank you,
Mr. Chair.
The Chairman. Barely.
Senator Hickenlooper. Secretary, thank you, again, for
being here and thank you for all your work. As you know too
well, the Colorado River Basin is experiencing what some people
call a 22-year drought. I think some of the sedimentary records
from the Grand Canyon demonstrate that we have seen less rain,
less precipitation accumulation in the last 22 years than we
have seen in almost 1,200 years. So it's more than just a
drought. We appreciate the attention that your entire team has
given. Even with the great snowpack we have had this year, I
think we still can't take our foot off the pedal. We need to
tackle this head-on and try to make sure we adjust this
imbalance between supply and demand.
Your Department recently released a draft document
overviewing options on how to manage the water shortages
through 2026, and I want to commend Camille Touton and her
entire team in Reclamation. They have really been remarkable
and have been everywhere, all over the Southwest. Deputy
Secretary Beaudreau, framing these options as bookends, which I
thought was excellent, that set the stage for the dialogue
between the Basin states. I think to negotiate a settlement
where we can get to a seven-state solution is critical to make
sure we avoid what would become endless litigation. So how are
those discussions going? I realize that you have a million
different things going on at once, but I think within a broad-
brush effort, I wanted to have you bring us up to date.
Secretary Haaland. Senator, thank you very much. As you
know, we are committed to pursuing a collaborative and
consensus-based approach. That has been our process so far. If
it's okay with you, because Deputy Secretary Beaudreau has
worked on this issue--I charged him with it--if it's okay if he
answers the question, I would be happy for him to.
Senator Hickenlooper. Absolutely.
Mr. Beaudreau. Yes, thank you, Secretary Haaland. Thank
you, Senator Hickenlooper.
You put it exactly right. The supplemental EIS has a number
of purposes, including providing context and impetus for those
negotiations, which I am encouraged by. The talks continue. I
am flying out, along with Commissioner Touton, to Phoenix
tomorrow to continue those discussions with the Lower Basin
commissioners. And so there is a lot of work to do. These are
difficult issues, as everyone knows, but I am optimistic that
we can get to consensus.
Senator Hickenlooper. I have been delighted to see you
being able to keep everyone at the table and everyone with a
positive attitude, and I think that is a key.
Now, I have two questions. Hard to pick which one I am
going to go with, because I have wasted too much of my time.
Let me go to our iconic landscapes in the West--well, across
this nation, but certainly in Colorado we draw in
recreationalists from across our state and our nation and the
world, and your Department plays such a critical role in this.
We obviously want to promote access to Colorado's beautiful
lands. We also want to ensure that those access points are
properly staffed and maintained. We know the National Park
Service has faced serious staffing challenges in recent years.
And for the staff that you have, finding housing is often a
real challenge.
What are you doing to ensure you have the workforce in
place to properly manage these vital lands?
Secretary Haaland. Thank you for recognizing that, Senator.
And as you know, since COVID, the number of visitors on our
national parks and public lands has really exponentially
increased. So yes, having the proper staff is important. We are
working on that, and of course, that is the importance of our
budget to hire more staff across the Department and certainly
in our national parks. We also--let's see, the budget includes
$117.8 million across multiple initiatives to support more than
600 additional full-time equivalents, including more than 400
to build park capacity for natural resource stewardship,
address new and critical responsibilities at parks, and support
the U.S. Park Police operations, which is incredibly important
to all of our national parks. So we have a plan.
Senator Hickenlooper. Great. I appreciate the able support
on short notice. That is what I call great staffing.
I have a couple more questions on wind, which I will submit
for the record, and you can answer in the future.
Secretary Haaland. Thank you.
Senator Hickenlooper. Thank you very much.
The Chairman. Senator Hawley.
Senator Hawley. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thanks
to the witnesses for being here.
Secretary Haaland, if I could just start with you. I want
to ask you about this memo from the Bureau of Ocean Energy
Management that leaked a few weeks ago that suggests that your
Department--I am looking at the memo now--it suggests that your
Department has been prioritizing a climate change agenda over
energy security in this country.
[The memo referred to follows:]
GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT
Senator Hawley. I just want to get to the bottom of this
and see if this is true. The memo concerns Lease Sale 258 in
Alaska, the Cook Inlet project. And I just want to quote from
the memo, which I have in front of me -- ``If the Cook Inlet
prospect would be developed, there would be additional
government revenues and greater energy security for the State
of Alaska . . .'' -- the memo goes on -- ``nevertheless'' --
that is quite a transition -- ``nevertheless, because of the
serious challenges facing the nation from climate change . . .
BOEM is not recommending this option.'' And what the memo says
is, is that the government ought to charge 18.75 percent in
royalties, the maximum take allowed under the law instead of a
lower rate that would actually lead to more development.
Now, did you agree with this analysis?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, thank you for the question, and
of course, royalty rates are such that, because our public
lands belong to every single American, that Americans should
get a fair return on the land that is used for this purpose.
Senator Hawley. But did you agree with charging the highest
possible rate in order to discourage bids on the project
because of climate change?
Secretary Haaland. There is--the royalty rates are, I mean,
that is not a surprise. That royalty rate is evident in other
parts of the country. And I will say that with respect to our
Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary, that is her department,
that is her bureau, and I honestly--she takes care of that. She
took care of that issue.
Senator Hawley. Well, but you are the Secretary. So
presumably you understand what's going on in your Department.
This is an extraordinary memo, and I just want to make sure
that I understand what your position is. The memo says that a
lower rate--the 16.67 percent rate, to be precise--would have
offered greater energy security. That is a quote from the memo.
I have it. This is public. Anybody can read this. That would
have offered greater energy security, but your Department
recommended a significantly higher rate that you thought would
likely lead, perhaps to not developing, not moving forward with
the project for the purpose of climate change. You didn't want
this to go forward. You didn't want Alaska to have greater
energy security because you said ``climate change.'' I am just
trying to understand. Do you agree with that analysis? And you
did indeed impose the higher rate. In fact, the sale, Lease
Sale 258 earned just one bid. So it looked like the strategy
worked. I just want to know, do you agree with that, that we
should trade off energy security for this country in favor of a
climate change agenda?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, what I can tell you is that the
royalty rate for the leases was the most reasonable balance of
environmental and economic factors for the public and was
consistent with the IRA requirements. Additionally, of course,
yes, we are in the midst of a terrible climate crisis and it is
our job to balance those things, to create a balance on our
public lands because our public lands belong to every single
American.
Senator Hawley. Okay. That sounds like a yes to me. So you
are telling me that yes, you think that charging more and
trading off energy security, sacrificing energy security in
favor of the climate change agenda is the right trade-off.
Secretary Haaland. Senator, this royalty rate was
consistent with the IRA requirement.
Senator Hawley. Well, yes, it's the highest. It's
consistent in the sense that you couldn't charge more than
that. I mean, the memo lays this out. You selected the highest
possible tax, essentially, in order to discourage development,
and you succeeded in it. What's amazing is the memo--and now,
listen, kudos to the person who wrote the memo because they are
very honest. They say we could have energy security or we could
have the climate change agenda. Energy security needs to be
sacrificed, so let's go with climate change. And you are
telling me that you agree with that.
I just have to say, I think that is a disastrous trade-off,
and I can't improve upon the comments offered by one Senator
who said, ``I am appalled by the contents of this memo, which
made crystal clear that this Administration is literally
putting their radical climate change agenda ahead of the needs
of the people of Alaska and the United States.'' That was the
Chairman. He was absolutely right about that. Well said, Mr.
Chairman.
And I just want to register that I think that this decision
to sacrifice our energy independence and energy security in
favor of an agenda that is making us dependent on China, that
is making us dependent on OPEC, that is making us dependent on
every dictator around the world, is a disastrous choice for the
working people of this country.
My time has expired. I have some more questions, but I will
submit them for the record.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Senator Cantwell.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to you
and the Ranking Member for this hearing. Madam Secretary, great
to see you. Thank you so much for coming to the Pacific
Northwest, visiting Mt. Rainier, the meeting with the Tulalip
Tribe, and I really appreciate you visiting the Northwest. I am
glad that we have someone at the Department of the Interior who
believes in stewardship. I am not sure everybody gets
stewardship, but it is about leaving the place better for the
next generation, and my colleague Senator Collins and I had
asked the GAO how much was climate change costing the U.S.
Government, and it is in the billions of dollars. We have asked
them to update that. I am pretty sure they are going to come
back and tell us it is costing us trillions of dollars. So I am
glad we are doing something about it.
I wanted to ask you, though, about your work in the budget
about Native American women who are experiencing violence and
going missing. This week is the National Week of Action for
Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women. This Friday is the
National Day of Awareness. In my state, an organization did the
report that showed how many women really are affected in the
United States of America over this. This was several years ago.
It really helped us move forward. Our attorney general has
identified at least 113 unsolved cases in my state, of
indigenous victims, and the Seattle Indian Health Board, which
I mentioned, who issued that report on 71 urban cities found
that Seattle and Tacoma have some of the highest cases of
missing and murdered native women and girls in the country. So
I know we have started to make change to address this crisis,
but we need to do more. You helped create an initiative at the
Department of the Interior, which I appreciate, and a task
force, but we need to make sure that the resources are there.
Some of these communities are immense and without much
resource. One tribe in my state told me that they have only two
law enforcement officers on duty to patrol a reservation of
over one million acres.
[Poster of Yakima Herald-Republic announcement of a
gathering to be held Toppenish, WA in honor of missing and
murdered indigenous women follows:]
GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT
Senator Cantwell. So I want to make sure that these cold
cases don't go unanswered. I want to make sure that we are
putting the resources together with this task force. So would
tribal members in Washington State be better served if we were
able to have federal resources in-state devoted to missing and
murdered indigenous people in these cold cases?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, thank you so much for your work
on this and for highlighting it. It is incredibly important and
a priority for us, and that is why we--that is why I started
the Missing and Murdered unit of the Department. And so far,
since its creation in 2021, it has investigated 681 missing and
murdered persons cases, solved or closed 204 missing persons
cases, and solved seven murder cases. We have 32 of 63 of those
positions filled. There are Missing and Murdered Units across
the country. I believe there are a dozen of them across the
country.
And so that is a good start, and of course, we would love
to continue the staffing on that and make sure that they have
the resources they need to solve these cases.
Senator Cantwell. What about a unit in the State of
Washington, given it is such a high----
Secretary Haaland. Thank you so much. Yes, and we
understand that area has some of the highest missing rates, and
certainly in small communities you can imagine if a dozen
people went missing at one time. We are so happy to work with
you on this, and we will take a look at what we have in the
Pacific Northwest, but certainly, you raise an important issue
and we are more than happy to continue to work with you.
Senator Cantwell. Do you think we need more resources?
Secretary Haaland. Absolutely. As I mentioned, we have 32
of 63 positions now filled. They are planning to hire a
supervisory agent in Washington State soon to add to the agent
already on the ground. There is one agent there in the MMU.
Sure, we could use more.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you. I think that is the answer I
was looking for because clearly, we don't have enough resources
here. We are a target. You know, we know that there is a lot of
trafficking of women. We know that I-5 and vast amounts of land
can lead to lots of different issues. So we need more
resources. We need everybody working together to try to tackle
this issue. So thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Barrasso [presiding]. Senator Kelly.
Senator Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Secretary Haaland, I wanted to just take a moment here to
discuss the Administration's budget priorities and how they
relate to the Department's management of the Colorado River.
Snowpack in the Colorado River Basin is--I think it's about 154
percent above average. I think runoff is a little bit better
than that. But that does not mean this drought is over--the
worst drought in over 1,000 years, as far as we can tell. And
one good year of snowmelt is not going to reverse 20 years of
prolonged drought. It has left Lake Powell and Lake Mead at
historically low levels. This is a long-term problem. This is
why Congress has provided significant resources to the
Department in the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and in the
Inflation Reduction Act.
Can you provide an update on how the Bipartisan
Infrastructure Law and the Inflation Reduction Act dollars are
being spent and how much is left of that money? How much is
left to address drought across the West both through
infrastructure and efficiency upgrades through conservation?
Secretary Haaland. Thank you very much for the question,
Senator. Of the $8.3 billion in bill funding through FY 2026,
Reclamation has allocated about $1.8 billion to projects across
the West for water conservation and recycling, more storage,
rehabilitation of infrastructure, and so forth. This also
includes last month's announcement of an additional $140
million to fund 84 projects conserving over 230,000 acre-feet
of water. We are also working quickly to use the $4 billion in
funding provided within the Inflation Reduction Act, $150
million for the Gila River Indian community. That saves about
125,000 acre-feet of water, and about similar in `24 and `25.
In the Upper Basin, $125 million out of a $500 million
commitment is available for the System Conservation Pilot
Program. And in the Lower Basin, we have committed $250 million
to the Salton Sea.
We are happy to get this all on a sheet for you and forward
that to you with all the numbers, if that----
Senator Kelly. That would be great.
So there is about $6.5 billion left in the Bipartisan
Infrastructure Law to still be spent on western water
infrastructure, is that correct?
Secretary Haaland. You are better at math than I am,
Senator. That sounds about right though.
Senator Kelly. All right. Well, you know, this issue is not
going away, and having one good year shouldn't make anyone feel
like we have more time. We don't have more time.
Secretary Haaland. We recognize that.
Senator Kelly. Thank you.
Secretary Beaudreau, you know, one action we took in the
Bipartisan Infrastructure Law was to substantially boost
funding for WaterSMART grants, by $400 million. That is ten
times what we normally do in an annual appropriation for that
specific program. And these grants are important because they
help farmers increase the efficiency of their irrigation
systems. And I want to thank the Administration for proposing
to increase these grants to $62.4 million. It is the highest
proposed increase in this program since 2017.
Unfortunately, these grants don't always make it to the
communities who need them the most. For example, farmers in
Pinal County have benefited very little from the WaterSMART
program. Last January, they lost their entire Colorado River
allocation. All the water they got from the river--gone. Now,
that is a major agricultural community in Arizona so it is
important not only for Arizonans, it is important for the
country. And by some estimates, they have had to fallow about
half of their farmland. So Secretary Beaudreau, as the
Department advocates for this increase in WaterSMART grants, I
would like you to look into what actions the Department or
Congress could take to increase accessibility for Pinal County,
specifically.
Could you give me a commitment to work on this?
Mr. Beaudreau. Yes, absolutely, Senator Kelly. And you put
your finger on an important issue. We look at all the different
programs and funding streams we have to meet a community's
needs as well as get conservation deployed. And some of those
tools don't match up with the needs of communities. And so, you
absolutely have our commitment to continue to work to figure
out how to get WaterSMART resources into the communities that
need them.
Senator Kelly. Yes, Pinal County was just hit really hard
and early by the Drought Contingency Plan, as levels dropped
below, you know, into Tier 2 of the Drought Contingency. So
thank you.
The Chairman [presiding]. I have just a couple questions,
very quickly, for a second round.
Just for the record, and this can be yes or no, but do you
agree, Madam Secretary, under the IRA, the Department cannot
move forward with offshore wind without holding offshore oil
and gas lease sales? Do you understand they are tied?
Secretary Haaland. Yes. Yes, Chairman.
The Chairman. Okay.
Secretary Haaland. Of course, we are going to comply with
the IRA as written. We understand that it is tied to oil and
gas development and renewable development, both onshore and
offshore and we are----
The Chairman. So both on and off, you understand? I just
want to make sure.
Secretary Haaland. Absolutely, yes, and we will do what it
requires.
The Chairman. You know, I am having just a little bit of a
problem with the way they are interpreting some of this
legislation. I am not blaming you all, but it's how it's handed
down, but the law is the law and we are going to make sure you
enforce the law, okay?
Secretary Haaland. We will follow the law. Thank you,
Chairman.
The Chairman. Okay.
The Compacts of Free Association--we talked about that
briefly--are a crucial component to outcompete China and
strengthen our alliances in the Indo-Pacific region, if you
will. Congress must renew these Compacts. You talked about
those briefly. They are set to expire on September 30 of this
year. We have the Marshall Islands, Micronesia, and Palau.
Marshall Islands has not been signed. We are going to probably
proceed on the other two, is that your understanding?
Secretary Haaland. Yes, Chairman, and I know that Carmen--
Assistant Secretary Cantor came to brief you last week.
The Chairman. Yes.
Secretary Haaland. And we are happy with the work that she
and Ambassador Yun are doing on this and----
The Chairman. Well, we are understanding--and you all can
check this out--we are understanding there is $7.1 billion over
the next 20 years, and every 20 years we have to ratify that.
And that was the deal that was made. Micronesia gets $3.3
billion at 140,000 people. You have the Marshall Islands--we
thought we had an agreement at $2.2 billion for the 50,000
people, and Palau has $760 million for 25,000. And also, on top
of that, we have for the postal service, the U.S. Postal
Service, with $634 million. I just think it is imperative we
get this done as quickly as possible, but we shouldn't have to
be held hostage by the Marshall Islands if they are playing for
another angle, because I think they are disproportionately--
right now, with 50,000 inhabitants, they are getting $2.2
billion, which has been agreed upon, but they don't think
that's enough and they haven't accepted it. If you could keep
us posted on that, where you are and what things need to be
done.
And if you wanted to just briefly say why you think this is
so important. I mean, I think all of us understand the
strategic and geographical, and with the geopolitical
challenges that we are having in the Pacific, that seems to be
our greatest desire--to get this accomplished.
Secretary Haaland. Absolutely, Chairman. And I will just
say that we have a really experienced team that has been
working on this--Ambassador Yun and Assistant Secretary Cantor.
She was the Ambassador in that area prior to coming to the
Department of the Interior. She knows people on the ground
there. And I trust them to do the best job possible and I think
they are really moving forward in a good way.
The Chairman. Let me just finish up real quick, and
Secretary Beaudreau and Secretary Haaland, you can feel our
frustration on what is going on here, you know, and I am just
fighting it. It seems like we are fighting it every day of this
Administration, truly having the desire to follow the laws
because it requires permitting, it requires leasing, and the
permitting needs to be done and we are going to have a
permitting overhaul, but the leasing that needs to be done that
puts things in action is all tied--we tied that to the IRA. You
cannot, as we just said, you cannot do offshore wind, you
cannot do onshore wind or solar unless we are extracting the
resources the good Lord has given us, and we need it for a
balance for the ten years.
I would just encourage you all to do everything you can to
basically accelerate, do it in a timely fashion, the leasing
that you are supposed to do. It is going to help have the
balance of renewables being able to do what they want to do
also. We are just trying to find the balance. We are not trying
to give anyone--and you are not going to be able to get what
you want with renewables by delaying the leasing of our fossil.
We just don't understand why we are having that challenge right
now. I would encourage you to work with us, please, on time,
get them on time so we can get things moving. We are going to
be a year and a half late now. We don't see 2024 being very
productive at all. And that is just going to basically hold up
anything that renewables want to do offshore or onshore and
BLM.
Senator Barrasso, do you have----
Senator Barrasso. Yes, thanks, I do, Mr. Chairman.
So just following up with what Senator Manchin was just
talking about--leasing. I want to talk a little bit about
permits because two weeks ago you testified when you were
testifying in the House that your Department is, ``committed to
moving the applications for permits to drill, to move them
forward as expeditiously as possible.'' And you said, ``and we
have done that since I have been in this position.'' That was
your testimony. I want to just point to a chart here. According
to the Bureau of Land Management's official data--your
Department--the time it takes to get an oil and gas permit has
actually doubled under your leadership. In 2020, the average
time was 130 days. In 2022, the average wait has jumped--
doubled to 271 days.
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Senator Barrasso. So my question is, why are you slow-
walking permits and then intentionally misleading Congress and
the public when you are caught?
Secretary Haaland. Thank you for the question, Senator, and
of course, I see this graph in front of me and there are a lot
of factors that go into an application for a permit to drill. I
don't process, personally, those applications. There is career
staff who are dedicated public servants who do that. I think
that number depends largely on how many applications there are
at a time. Oftentimes, the career staff will contact the
applicant to get further information, and they don't respond in
a timely manner. There's any number of issues that happen,
because each application for a permit to drill is separate and
apart from the other ones. They look at each application
separately. They process them separately, and I can say that
they have told me that oftentimes they ask for further
information from the applicant. They don't get it in a timely
manner. That adds to the delay, Senator.
Senator Barrasso. Well, your budget has been increased, and
I don't think many people who are listening here believe that
it's the companies who need these permits who are slow-walking
the information back to you.
Mr. Beaudreau, may I ask you to comment on this as well?
Mr. Beaudreau. Yes, I think there are a number of factors
in addition to what the Secretary described. We cannot get
around the fact that litigation plays a role, and that is why
we are committed to a thorough and rigorous and defensible
process as we go through the leasing and permitting process
because, as you know, if you really want to throw something off
the rails, litigation is the way you do it.
Senator Barrasso. Well, let me go back to the Secretary.
Thank you, and I want to follow up on the litigation, but
with the Secretary, because last month I sent a letter to you,
along with Senator Lummis from Wyoming and Representative
Hageman, about a lawsuit, about litigation that has been filed
against oil and gas leases and permits in Wyoming, in my home
state. And I have a copy of the letter that I sent to you.
[The letter referred to follows:]
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Senator Barrasso. The lawsuit targets leases and permits
that were issued under your authority over the last two years.
Will you commit to fully defending your own Department's
decisions to issue these leases and permits in court? Will you
commit to fully defending these?
Secretary Haaland. Thank you very much for the question,
Senator.
Of course, our solicitor's department, they are the
lawyers. They look at these lawsuits. I am happy to get with
the solicitor's department to figure out where these are. I
could not tell you where they are at the moment, in their
review.
Senator Barrasso. Yes, these are leases that you have come
out with, and I would expect you and your Department to fully
defend the lawsuits, defending your own action here.
You know, in terms of coal leasing, last year a court
reimposed the Department's moratorium, going back to 2016, on
new thermal coal leasing, pending the completion of
environmental review of the coal leasing program. Last week,
your Department announced that it has started the environmental
review. Do you have any intention to ever resume coal leasing
on federal lands?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, I appreciate the question very
much. I know that last week the BLM initiated the remedial
environmental analysis of potential effects of maintaining the
coal leasing moratorium. That is a process that is ongoing and
of course, we are committed to working with all leasing
applicants, including folks who are in this industry, and I
believe that the moratorium does not apply to metallurgical
coal.
Senator Barrasso. There were a number of times today you
say your goal is to follow the law. The purpose of the Mineral
Leasing Act is to promote the mining of coal on the public
domain. Do you believe that an indefinite moratorium on coal
leasing is consistent with the federal law?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, I understand your concern, and
I am happy to look at this issue. I don't----
Senator Barrasso. And finally, and Mr. Chairman, I am going
to submit this for the record. In one of my earlier questions,
I was talking about specific rare-earth minerals--things that
are needed--all minerals for electric vehicles, and talked
about cobalt extensively. You had mentioned in your response
that you looked at a mine and it had to do more with copper. I
do have with me your Bureau of Land Management's National NEPA
Register and the issues related to that mine. And it is very
clearly stated that it was underground copper and nickel and
cobalt. All of which I mentioned as critical minerals needed
for electric vehicles that would be needed much, much more to
try to meet the Administration's goals, and for which, right
now, we are very dependent on international sources, some of
which are mined in ways that we would find very much against
the values of the United States.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[The Twin Metals Minnesota Project Environmental Review
Support Document from the BLM National NEPA Register referred
to above appears in the Appendix of this hearing document,
beginning on page 213.]
The Chairman. Thank you.
Senator Hawley.
Senator Hawley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I just want to come back, Madam Secretary, to this trade-
off between energy security and the radical climate change
agenda that you have endorsed, which is a less energy security
for America/radical climate change agenda. On the subject of
the sweeping mandates related to electric vehicles that the
Biden Administration has imposed, including now for our
military, the metals needed to make the lithium-ion batteries
in those vehicles are, of course, lithium, nickel, graphite,
and cobalt. Now, can you tell me what nation is the largest
producer of refined lithium in the world?
Secretary Haaland. No, I can't.
Senator Hawley. It's China.
Can you tell me which nation is the largest producer of
refined cobalt in the world?
Secretary Haaland. No, Senator.
Senator Hawley. It's China.
Do you know what nation is the largest exporter of natural
graphite to the United States, globally?
Secretary Haaland. No, Senator.
Senator Hawley. It's China.
Secretary Haaland. Okay.
Senator Hawley. So in all of these instances, these
mandates, your decision to trade off our energy security in
favor of a radical climate change agenda is making us more and
more dependent on China, and at the same time, you are denying
mining, blocking mining, blocking permits for mines in this
country that would allow us to develop nickel and copper and
cobalt. Why? Why block the development of these resources in
our own nation in favor of making us dependent on China?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, are you referring to the
Boundary Waters----
Senator Hawley. I am referring to the Twin Metals mine in
Minnesota that I think that Senator Barrasso was just asking
you about.
Secretary Haaland. Yes, near the Boundary Waters, which is
an iconic place, and of course, a very valuable ecological
system to many plants, animals, species----
Senator Hawley. But jobs--let me just say this though. Jobs
for blue collar workers in this nation are valuable resources.
The livelihood and well-being of American families are valuable
resources. The ability of America to have our own industry and
not be dependent on China is a valuable resource. Why should
those things for millions of Americans be sacrificed in favor
of your agenda for radical climate change?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, I know that there are like 1.9
jobs for every American in the country right now. So I know
there are a lot of jobs.
Senator Hawley. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a
minute, wait a minute--you are telling me--you are telling me
we have got too many jobs in the country?
Secretary Haaland. Well, I am saying that we don't have
enough people, that is why we are having a hard time finding
folks to work at our Department----
Senator Hawley. Oh, wait, you are telling me that we have
too many jobs for blue collar work? Have you seen the number of
jobs we have lost in this country to China in the last 20
years? Do you know where those jobs come from? Over three
million jobs have gone to China. Do you know where those jobs
have come from? They have come out of midwestern towns, like
the ones I represent. They are blue collar workers and you are
sitting here and telling me that we have too many jobs in this
country. Are you serious?
Secretary Haaland. Senator, we are working hard every
single day. There are--we have processed 20 mining
applications, 20 mines or mining modification permits since
January of 2021. We are moving forward. We are doing our jobs.
We are fulfilling our mission for the----
Senator Hawley. You are not moving forward. You are moving
backward. You are shutting down and denying permits for mines
in this country where we can develop our own resources. You are
shutting down oil and natural gas permits. You are approving
taxes and royalties that deliberately suppress American energy
development in favor of a climate change agenda, and now you
are sitting here and telling me we have got too many jobs in
this country, we have got gobs of jobs in this country, we
don't need any more jobs in this country.
I want to take the strongest possible exception to that
comment and to that entire mentality, which, I think, it is
very honest. I think it reflects the mentality of your
Administration, which is when it comes to blue collar workers
in this country, you are on your own. Good luck. Good luck to
you. We have got plenty, you know, just shut up and go get a
job at McDonald's, you know, whatever. No more--quit
complaining about the loss of American industry. I mean, good
lord. That is extraordinary. What an extraordinary response.
Secretary Haaland. May I say something, Senator?
Senator Hawley. Absolutely. The rest of the time is yours.
Secretary Haaland. Thank you.
Contrary to that, we have created a number of jobs. We have
an orphaned oil--orphaned gas program where we have capped
orphaned oil and gas wells, and an abandoned mine reclamation
project that has lifted whole communities up in reclaiming
their mine lands that have devastated their communities. These
folks have been out of jobs for years, and now, because of the
Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, because of the Inflation
Reduction Act, they found new ways to engage and not only have
jobs, but have a vision for what they want their communities to
look like. We have plugged orphaned gas wells in peoples'
backyards in Pennsylvania, and we are doing so in California
and in Texas. These are things--these are communities that rely
on this government to find a way forward for them. There is,
unfortunately, a dearth of legacy pollution in this country.
Those are jobs--good-paying, well-paying jobs with benefits
that Americans are having because of President Biden and his
policies. And we are proud to move those issues and those
programs forward for the American people.
Senator Hawley. My time is expired. I will just say in
conclusion, again, trading off American energy security in
favor of your radical climate change agenda, shutting down
good-paying, American jobs in our energy sector and then saying
the explanation is we have got plenty of jobs in this country,
I think, is the most potentially--and this quite a high bar I
might add--the most unbelievable statement I have heard from a
member of this Administration, maybe in my time in the Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you.
I want to thank all of you, again, for being here. I
appreciate it very much.
Members are going to have until the close of business
tomorrow to submit additional questions for the record.
The Committee is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 11:28 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
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