[Senate Hearing 118-264]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                 S. Hrg. 118-264

                STRENGTHENING INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION
                TO STOP THE FLOW OF FENTANYL INTO THE 
                              UNITED STATES

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                            SUBCOMMITTEE ON
                EMERGING THREATS AND SPENDING OVERSIGHT

                                 OF THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
               HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS


                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                             MARCH 20, 2024

                               __________

        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                       Printed for the use of the
        Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs
        
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                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
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        COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS

                   GARY C. PETERS, Michigan, Chairman
THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware           RAND PAUL, Kentucky
MAGGIE HASSAN, New Hampshire         RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin
KYRSTEN SINEMA, Arizona              JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
JACKY ROSEN, Nevada                  MITT ROMNEY, Utah
JON OSSOFF, Georgia                  RICK SCOTT, Florida
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
LAPHONZA BUTLER, California          ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas

               David M. Weinberg, Majority Staff Director
           William E. Henderson III, Minority Staff Director
                     Laura W. Kilbride, Chief Clerk
                   Ashley A. Gonzalez, Hearing Clerk


        SUBCOMMITTEE ON EMERGING THREATS AND SPENDING OVERSIGHT

                 MAGGIE HASSAN, New Hampshire, Chairman
KYRSTEN SINEMA, Arizona              MITT ROMNEY, Utah
JACKY ROSEN, Nevada                  JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
JON OSSOFF, Georgia                  RICK SCOTT, Florida

               Jason M. Yanussi, Majority Staff Director
                Allison Tinsey, Majority Senior Counsel
           Scott Maclean Richardson, Minority Staff Director
            John Poulson, Minority Professional Staff Member
                Paul H.J. Hurton III, Subcommittee Clerk
                           
                           
                           C O N T E N T S

                                 ------                                
Opening statements:
                                                                   Page
    Senator Hassan...............................................     1
    Senator Romney...............................................     3
    Senator Rosen................................................    13
    Senator Lankford.............................................    16
    Senator Ossoff...............................................    18
Prepared statements:
    Senator Hassan...............................................    29

                               WITNESSES
                       WEDNESDAY, MARCH 20, 2024

Vanda Felbab-Brown, Director, Initiative on Nonstate Armed 
  Actors, The Brookings Institute................................     4
Celina Realuyo, Professor of Practice, William J. Perry Center 
  for Hemispheric Defense Studies, National Defense University...     6
Christopher Urben, Managing Director, Nardello & Co..............     8

                     Alphabetical List of Witnesses

Felbab-Brown, Vanda:
    Testimony....................................................     4
    Prepared statement...........................................    31
Realuyo, Celina:
    Testimony....................................................     6
    Prepared statement...........................................    65
Urben, Christopher:
    Testimony....................................................     8
    Prepared statement...........................................    81

 
                      STRENGTHENING INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION 
                TO STOP THE FLOW OF FENTANYL INTO THE UNITED STATES

                              ----------                              


                       WEDNESDAY, MARCH 20, 2024

                                     U.S. Senate,  
                       Subcommittee on Emerging Threats and
                                        Spending Oversight,
                    of the Committee on Homeland Security  
                                  and Governmental Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:30 p.m., in 
room SD-342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Margaret 
Hassan, presiding.
    Present: Senators Hassan [presiding], Rosen, Ossoff, 
Romney, Lankford, and Scott.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HASSAN\1\

    Senator Hassan. This hearing will now come to order. Good 
afternoon. Today's hearing will focus on the steps that United 
States agencies and foreign countries need to take to stop the 
flow of fentanyl into the United States.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ The prepared statement of Senator Hassan appears in the 
Appendix on page 29.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The vast majority of fentanyl and now other powerful 
synthetic opioids are not being produced in the United States. 
These drugs come from international drug cartels, and we know 
that these cartels have international supply chains. Mexican 
drug cartels, for instance, order precursor chemicals used to 
make fentanyl or other synthetic opioids from chemical 
manufacturers in China. Then the cartels synthesized the 
opioids in Mexico and smuggle the drugs across the Southwest 
border.
    United States and international authorities must work 
together to dismantle these transnational criminal 
organizations (TCO) and cutoff their supplies, their money, and 
illegal weapons. Today's hearing is an opportunity to look at 
the specific steps that Congress needs to take to disrupt the 
fentanyl supply chain and dismantle the deadly and violent 
criminal organizations that dominate this trade.
    We need to develop these strategies with the understanding 
that the cartels are nimble, constantly shifting their methods 
to circumvent the law. We also need to recognize that these 
cartels take advantage of our current crisis at the Southern 
Border, so we need, urgently, to strengthen our defenses there. 
We should provide more resources to border agencies, hire more 
personnel, and deploy more equipment that can detect drugs in 
all kinds of vehicles.
    However, as I noted, to have a lasting impact on the flow 
of fentanyl into our country, we need to work with our 
international partners to fully dismantle the drug cartels 
producing and supplying the drugs. When I participated in a 
bipartisan congressional delegation to China last fall, I 
pressed President Xi to do more to stop the manufacturing and 
exportation of fentanyl precursor chemicals.
    President Biden held a summit with President Xi a month 
later, and since then, the Chinese government has said that it 
would do more to crack down on drug trafficking and target the 
profits of illegal drug and precursor chemical exports.
    We have to hold China accountable and push them to 
implement reasonable common-sense controls to limit illegal 
chemical exports. Yet China continues to resist calls to 
implement. Know Your Customer (KYC) protocols for its chemical 
sector. These protocols would require that companies verify 
that their customers have a legitimate purpose for dual-use 
chemicals, and would make it much more difficult for drug 
cartels to purchase the chemicals that they need to make 
fentanyl.
    We must exert more diplomatic pressure to get this done, 
including working with other major Chinese trading partners to 
force changes. U.S. agencies should also take steps to improve 
coordination and information sharing with Mexican authorities. 
The drug cartels operating in Mexico are extremely powerful. 
Their dangerous influence has corrupted officials at all levels 
of government. In the face of these challenges, we have to find 
reliable partners to dismantle the drug cartels.
    One of the ways to dismantle and defeat the cartels is by 
depriving them of the money and illegal weapons that they 
smuggle across the Southern Border from the United States, 
something that Mexican officials have stressed to me in my two 
congressional trips there. Cartels use these weapons and money 
to seize control of Mexican communities, and bribe or kill 
officials.
    That is why I have worked with Senator Lankford to 
introduce the Enhancing Southbound Inspections to Combat 
Cartels Act. This bill requires that the Department of Homeland 
Security (DHS) increase its inspections of vehicles and 
pedestrians traveling into Mexico. These inspections will help 
us prevent the flow of illicit money and weapons. The bill also 
authorizes additional resources for the border and law 
enforcement agencies that are responsible for inspections and 
investigations. I hope that the Senate Homeland Security and 
Governmental Affairs Committee (HSGAC) will consider this 
legislation soon.
    No one law will address the fentanyl crisis alone. Fentanyl 
is inexpensive to make and transport, and it is in high demand. 
It will continue to take an all-hands-on deck approach to 
dismantle the cartels, crack down on the spread of illicit 
fentanyl, and protect our communities. That is why while we 
work to combat the cartels, we should also take steps to 
strengthen resources for people dealing with addiction to make 
sure that anyone who needs treatment and recovery services can 
access them.
    Today though, I look forward to discussing how we can 
disrupt fentanyl supplies and dismantle drug cartels with our 
three insightful witnesses. People in every corner of the 
country, including my home State of New Hampshire, have had 
their families and communities destroyed by the fentanyl 
crisis. We must do everything that we can to dismantle and 
defeat the cartels. We cannot relent in these efforts. We need 
to build a safer future for our country and for our children.
    Thank you, and I now recognize Ranking Member Romney for 
his opening remarks.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR ROMNEY

    Senator Romney. Thank you, Chair Hassan, for holding this 
hearing. I appreciate those of you who are here today to 
educate us and inform us as to what steps might be taken to 
reduce the tragedy of fentanyl in our country, and frankly 
globally. I do not have to recount to you the statistics. Even 
in my State of Utah, the numbers between 2019 and 2020 showed 
fentanyl-linked deaths increased by 128 percent. It continues 
to be a human tragedy across our country and across the world.
    The question is, what can we do? Is there any one place, 
any choke point we can focus on and say if we can just get this 
group here or this country here to take the following steps 
while then we are going to be able to dramatically reduce the 
tragedy of fentanyl?
    China has made commitments, as the chair indicated, and I 
do not believe they fully lived up to those commitments. Had 
there been the same kind of concern about fentanyl in China as 
there is here in the United States, my expectation is that 
there had been a much tougher approach taken there that has not 
happened, and I am interested in your perspective on whether 
there's prospect for that occurring in the future.
    Likewise, with regards to Mexico, we have not had as much 
support in fighting organized crime and the cartels in Mexico, 
as we might have hoped. A new administration suggests that we 
will have a better relationship and perhaps more ability to 
make a difference there, but I guess we are all recognizing 
what the problem is. We just do not know how to solve it.
    You have experience in this regard that we would consider 
highly valuable. That is why we decided to hold this hearing. 
We want to hear your perspectives and potentially see what you 
think as well about the legislation which Senator Lankford and 
Senator Hassan have proposed, and see if there are other steps 
that you think we might take to make it more likely that we 
will be able to restrict the scourge of fentanyl.
    With that Madam Chair.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you, Senator Romney. It is the 
practice of the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs 
Committee to swear in witnesses. If you will all please stand 
and raise your right hand.
    Do you swear that the testimony you give before this 
Subcommittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you, God?
    Dr. Felbab-Brown. I do.
    Mr. Urben. I do.
    Ms. Realuyo. I do.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you-all. Please be seated.
    Our first witness today is Dr. Vanda Felbab-Brown. Dr. 
Felbab-Brown is the Director of the Initiative on Nonstate 
Armed Actors at The Brookings Institute.
    She is an expert on international and internal conflicts, 
and non-traditional security threats, including insurgency, 
organized crime, urban violence, and illicit economies. Dr. 
Felbab-Brown has conducted extensive field work and research 
around the world, including throughout Latin America and South 
Asia.
    Welcome, Dr. Felbab-Brown. You are recognized for your 
opening statement.

  TESTIMONY OF VANDA FELBAB-BROWN,\1\ DIRECTOR, INITIATIVE ON 
         NONSTATE ARMED ACTORS, THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTE

    Dr. Felbab-Brown. Thank you very much, Chair Hassan, 
Ranking Member Romney, distinguished Members of the 
Subcommittee. Thank you very much for this opportunity to 
testify today. My testimony represents solely my views.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ The prepared statement of Dr. Felbab-Brown appears in the 
Appendix on page 31.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    As you have said in your opening statements, the fentanyl 
crisis is a massive crisis. It is the most lethal drug epidemic 
ever in history. Even while it is confined to North America, it 
has significant potential to spread beyond North America. U.S. 
domestic evidence-based prevention, treatment, harm reduction, 
and law enforcement remain crucial and indispensable for 
addressing it. But supply measures also matter. They can save 
lives.
    Mexico and China are key actors whose collaboration is 
necessary for controlling supply. Yet, the United States has 
found it challenging and difficult to have meaningful 
cooperation with either country. China is the principal source 
of precursor chemicals today from which Mexican cartels are 
sensitizing fentanyl in Mexico, and then smuggling it to the 
United States.
    China subordinates its counter narcotics cooperation to its 
strategic calculus and to its bilateral relationships. Between 
August 2022 and November 2023, we had no meaningful cooperation 
from China. Thank you, Senator Hassan, for your role in 
engaging Beijing as well as Beijing's own calculus, that it 
wanted to stabilize the bilateral relationship, but the 
critical reasons why China agreed to resurrect cooperation.
    China has already taken some steps. It has sent out notices 
to Chinese pharmaceutical companies that it will start 
monitoring and likely enforcing the sales of precursors. We had 
the meetings in Beijing of the bilateral U.S.-China Working 
Group on Counter-Narcotics, in which China agreed to two 
important issues, collaboration on anti-money laundering (AML). 
This is the first time that China has agreed to do so in the 
bilateral relationship, and also acting against the sales of 
pill presses.
    But as you have said, there are many issues that are 
outstanding and the robustness of the cooperation is yet to be 
seen. China is already indicating that it might not be able to 
move to prosecutions and arrests because many of the precursors 
are dual-used and not scheduled yet. Certainly, when companies 
sell to Mexican criminal actors giving them recipes how to 
synthesize the opioids, there are opportunities to charge on 
fraud or conspiracy charges.
    Also, the extent of the anti-money laundering cooperation 
remains to be seen, but it is crucial as Chinese money 
launderers (CMLOs) have become the to-go-to actors for Mexican 
cartels and some of the world's leading ones, and use methods 
that are difficult for law enforcement to deal with.
    Know Your Customer laws, as you have also said, is 
absolutely crucial. We need to continue encouraging China to 
adopt and enforce them, and developing subgroup within the 
Global Coalition against the threat of synthetic drugs that the 
United States launched last summer is an opportunity to do so.
    The relationship with Mexico also remains deeply 
challenged. Mexico essentially acts sporadically, and often 
inconsistently, against Mexican cartels broadly and against the 
flows of fentanyl. Its cooperation is centered on occasional 
high value targeting, and as a result of U.S. prodding, and 
brave journalistic investigative work. The Mexican government 
did shut down some of the pharmacies in Mexico that sell 
fentanyl and meth-laced drugs, a very significant and dangerous 
vector of addiction and death.
    However, more broadly robust investigations and network 
dismantling are not taking place in Mexico. Investigative work 
by Reuters has repeatedly shown that the Mexican government 
systematically and grossly exaggerate the extent to which it 
bust labs.
    There is often little support from the Mexican government 
for journalists, honest Mexican government officials, brave 
civil society actors who are willing to stand up to the 
cartels. In fact, in a very troubling recent development, we 
have seen President Lopez Obrador releasing the personal 
information of New York Times bureau chief in Mexico City, with 
very dangerous consequences. The U.S. Government should take 
actions to make sure that such behavior is not repeated.
    Violence in Mexico remains high and brazen, and is 
spreading geographically affecting every life of people in 
Mexico. The current election season is likely the most violent 
one. Mexican criminal groups are taking over legal economies 
and public services. They are governing and expanding scope of 
territories, economies, and institutions, and people in Mexico, 
even as the Mexican government remains unwilling to tackle them 
in any systematic manner and take law enforcement action 
against them. These pernicious developments raise significant 
questions about nearshoring to Mexico as a strategy of the risk 
from China.
    In my written statement, I offer a detailed set of 
recommendation that I am glad to discuss with you subsequently. 
Let me just say at the end, that since Mexican cartels have 
greatly diversified their portfolio, they are involved in many 
illegal economies, they are increasingly paying for precursor 
chemicals in wildlife products, it is important to tackle all 
the economic activity of those actors, not simply fentanyl 
flows. It is imperative to also tackle all their connections to 
criminal actors elsewhere in China and their political patrons 
around the world. Thank you.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you very much for your testimony. Our 
next witness is Celina Realuyo. Ms. Realuyo is the Professor of 
Practice at the William J. Perry Center for Hemispheric Defense 
Studies at the National Defense University.
    She previously served in the State Department, including as 
a director of State's Counter-Terrorism Finance Program. Ms. 
Realuyo has over two decades of international experience in the 
public, private, and academic sectors.
    Welcome, you are recognized for your opening statement.

   TESTIMONY OF CELINA B. REALUYO,\1\ PROFESSOR OF PRACTICE, 
   WILLIAM J. PERRY CENTER FOR HEMISPHERIC DEFENSE STUDIES, 
                  NATIONAL DEFENSE UNIVERSITY

    Ms. Realuyo. Thank you, Chair Hassan, Ranking Member 
Romney, and Members of the Subcommittee on Emerging Threats and 
Spending Oversight (ETSO) of the Senate Committee on Homeland 
Security and Governmental Affairs, for this opportunity to 
testify on Strengthening International Cooperation to Stop the 
Flow of Fentanyl into The United States.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ The prepared statement of Ms. Realuyo appears in the Appendix 
on page 65.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    One year ago, I testified before the House Financial 
Services Committee on how China and the Mexican cartels are 
waging an asymmetrical war against the United States through 
the international illicit fentanyl trade. Unfortunately, the 
fentanyl crisis has just gotten worse since then.
    Over 112,000 U.S. overdose deaths in 2023 are mostly 
attributed to illicit fentanyl from the Mexican cartels that 
source the fentanyl precursor chemicals and pill presses from 
China. The cartels and the Chinese suppliers are exploiting 
America's weaknesses, namely, our appetite for illicit drugs 
and porous borders.
    In the last year, we have actually seen increased efforts 
to curb international fentanyl flows with this cooperation with 
China and Mexico. But we must trust but verify to see how deep 
that commitment is in order to tackle this deadly epidemic in 
the long run.
    On the Chinese front, we actually saw after a long period 
of suspended cooperation, Presidents Biden and Xi decided to 
resume bilateral narcotics enforcement when they met in San 
Francisco in November. Just before that meeting, the People's 
Republic of China (PRC) submitted 145 drug-related incidents to 
the International Narcotics Control Board database, and this is 
the first time that China had done so since 2017.
    Beijing has also warned domestic precursor producers of 
potential legal action if their chemicals are sent abroad. 
While these are positive development, it remains to be seen how 
the PRC can crack down on illicit fentanyl suppliers and the 
money launderers to have a true impact on the global supply 
chain.
    On the Mexican front, after a long period of strained 
relations since Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador (AMLO) AMLO took 
power in 2018, the United States and Mexico renewed cooperation 
through the Bicentennial Framework for Security, Public Health, 
and Safe Communities in October, 2021. It addresses the 
production, trafficking, consumption, and financing of illicit 
drugs and firearms. In January, 2023, at the North America 
Leaders' Summit, Mexican President, AMLO, acknowledged fentanyl 
production in Mexico and pledged to interdict precursor 
chemicals and destroy fentanyl labs.
    As fentanyl-related deaths due to domestic consumption in 
Mexico and cartel-related homicides are on the increase, we 
could expect the Mexican government to be more inclined to 
cooperate with the United States on the fentanyl issue.
    When we look forward, we have to think about how the United 
States, China, and Mexico must intensify domestic and 
international efforts against the illicit fentanyl trade by 
reducing drug demand and supply, increased narcotics detection 
and interdiction, and anti-money laundering measures. Here on 
the domestic front, we should assign more human, financial 
technology resources to disrupt fentanyl flows, and this would 
include more inspection scanners, forward operating labs, and 
the use of artificial intelligence (AI) on our borders.
    We also need to encourage U.S. law enforcement intelligence 
agencies to leverage signals, financial and digital 
intelligence to better understand how these traffickers are 
operating in what we call the cyber-physical realm, 
particularly on online markets.
    On the international front, we should set up specialized 
units that share specific law enforcement information with the 
PRC and Mexico to take down the Chinese and Mexican criminal 
networks engaged in the drug trade. The United States should 
hold the PRC accountable for the export illicit fentanyl 
precursor chemicals, and demand verifiable reports of actions 
that they have taken against these traffickers.
    If the PRC should decide not to demonstrate good faith, the 
United States should consider punitive measures like 
threatening the withdrawal of most favored nation status, 
imposing actual tariffs, and applying diplomatic pressure 
through the Global Coalition to Address Synthetic Drug Threats.
    On the financial front, which is an area that I have been 
studying for 20 years, we should really press the PRC to go 
after the money runners and ensure that they apply Know Your 
Customer to the suppliers, but also those who finance them.
    On the Mexican front, we need to deepen true cooperation in 
terms of the production, trafficking, and money laundering 
elements of the entire business cycle of the illicit fentanyl 
trade. If Mexico does not cooperate and show credible action, 
we should consider designating the Sinaloa and Jalisco Cartels 
as foreign terrorist organizations (FTOs). This would provide 
U.S. agencies with expanded powers to pursue and freeze assets 
of the cartels and their collaborators under the Material 
Support of Terrorism Statute.
    In conclusion, illicit fentanyl producers, traffickers, in 
their financiers are exploiting increased demand, porous 
borders, and cyberspace to further expand their operations 
around the world, well beyond just Canada and the United 
States. Therefore, with China and Mexico, we need to double 
down on cooperative measures to stem the flow of illicit 
fentanyl that is literally killing tens of thousands of 
Americans. Thank you for your attention.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you very much.
    Our third witness is Christopher Urben. Mr. Urben is 
managing director in Nardello & Company's Washington, DC 
office. Before his current role, Mr. Urben served for 25 years 
with the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), leading 
sophisticated international money laundering and threat finance 
investigations. This included overseas tours in Brussels and 
Copenhagen, and also time with the Special Operations Division 
(SOD) in the United States where he focused on international 
threats.
    Welcome, Mr. Urben. You are recognized for your opening 
statement.

   TESTIMONY OF CHRISTOPHER J. URBEN,\1\ MANAGING DIRECTOR, 
                         NARDELLO & CO

    Mr. Urben. Chair Hassan, and Ranking Member Romney, and 
distinguished Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for the 
opportunity to address you today on the importance of 
international cooperation in combating the international trade 
of fentanyl.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ The prepared statement of Mr. Urben appears in the Appendix on 
page 81.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This growing trade has killed hundreds of thousands of 
Americans, destabilized Mexico, and adversely the affected our 
nation's communities and its financial integrity. International 
cooperation, particularly with Mexico and China, can help stop 
the flow of fentanyl into the United States and the flow of 
narcotics proceeds through our financial system.
    I saw firsthand the damage done by the international trade 
of narcotics, including fentanyl during my 24-year career as an 
agent executive with the DEA. I started off on the front lines 
targeting leaders of transnational organized criminal 
organizations who were trafficking drugs into the United States 
and laundering crime proceeds to our institutions. I also spent 
time abroad at U.S. embassies in Brussels and Copenhagen, 
working with our partners to increase collaboration against 
transnational organized crime.
    In 2018, I was assigned to DEA Special Operations Division 
where I supervised a team that focused on a new and evolving 
threat, Chinese money launderers, and other elements of Chinese 
organized crime globally. Over the course of my career with 
DEA, I observed the transformative potential of international 
cooperation in achieving our mission and increasing global 
stability. One example of this potential is Plan Colombia, the 
United States and Colombian initiative launched in 2000.
    At the time Plan Colombia was started, the country was 
struggling with cartel-initiated violence, and battling 
insurgencies from the Autodefensas Unidas de Colombia (AUC) and 
the Fuerzas Armadas Revolucionarias de Colombia (FARC). As a 
result of decades of hand-in-hand partnership with the United 
States and Colombian authorities, which included extensive work 
with the DEA and entrusted Colombian counterparts, and 
intensive investigative techniques by both, and the extradition 
of high-level narcotics traffickers to the United States to 
face justice, a very important component to that, the country 
has been transformed into a solid long-term partner of the 
United States in combating the global narcotics trade.
    During my work in Brussels and Copenhagen, I collaborated 
extensively with European counterparts, some of which were 
young democracies that had been under the control of the Soviet 
Union, and I collaborated on significant criminal and national 
security issues. When I returned to the United States and SOD 
after my time abroad, I saw the profound negative effect and 
the of the lack of effective international cooperation, and the 
dramatic increase of fentanyl into the country, and also the 
increased moneys being laundered by CMLOs.
    Lack of international cooperation with China on counter-
narcotics issues has enabled fentanyl precursor chemicals 
manufactured in that country to be transported to Mexico, where 
they have been transformed into drugs that are killing hundreds 
of thousands of Americans. Lack of collaboration with China on 
anti-money laundering issues has contributed to the rise of 
CMLOs as the primary vehicle for which Mexican drug cartels are 
laundering their money.
    The CMLO model is a dramatic improvement for the Mexican 
cartels. Several aspects of the CMLO threat could be addressed 
much more effectively if United States and Chinese law 
enforcement and financial regulators were able to work 
together. For example, CMLO utilize technology to their 
advantage. WeChat transmissions are resistant to surveillance 
by U.S. law enforcement. They cannot be used to disrupt the 
CMLOs or bring their organized crime leadership to justice.
    However, Chinese authorities who have access to WeChat and 
other Chinese communication tools could share information on 
the CMLO activity with U.S. law enforcement if the two 
countries were collaborating effectively.
    Our relationship with Mexico and these issues is stronger, 
but there is a tremendous need for improvement and a reset. In 
2021, the governments of Mexico and United States announced the 
new framework and cooperation plan, the Bicentennial Framework. 
This agreement seeks to reopen and improve bilateral channels 
to address drug trafficking, organized crime, facilitate 
extraditions, and stem the flow of fentanyl into the United 
States.
    But the key is a dramatic improvement in joint operations 
between Mexican and U.S. law enforcement, and that Mexican 
honor all U.S. extradition requests in a timely manner. That 
would be a game changer.
    The private sector can also help. At Nardello & Co., the 
global investigative firm that I joined in 2022, we are working 
on ways to help financial institutions to identify and address 
the CMLO activity by shutting down accounts and reporting 
suspicious activity to the authorities. If done on a global 
scale, CMLOs and other money launderers, it would be much more 
difficult for them to move the money.
    Finally, the United States we could do more to combat the 
flow of fentanyl into this country through new laws and 
additional resources.
    Thank you to the Subcommittee for calling attention to this 
important issue. I look forward to answering your questions.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you very much for your testimony. I 
am going to go ahead with my set of questions, then I will turn 
it over to the Ranking Member, and other Members, I think, are 
going to come in and out as they can.
    Mr. Urben, I want to start with a question to you. Last 
year, when I traveled to China and met with President Xi, I 
pushed him to crack down on the export of fentanyl precursor 
chemicals that drug cartels order from Chinese businesses. 
Following up on that meeting, President Biden and President Xi 
agreed to more extensive cooperation to stop the tracking 
trafficking of fentanyl and fentanyl precursor chemicals from 
China to Mexico.
    Now we need to ensure that China keeps its commitment to 
work with us. What tangible steps should the United States 
require from China in, let's say, the next six months and in 
the next two years?
    Mr. Urben. When the government as China has acted in the 
past, we have seen results that have been favorable in terms of 
the traffic patterns of actual fentanyl that was coming in in 
2018 and 1919. In terms of the precursors coming from Chinese 
multinational companies and supplying the cartels, I would 
ensure through meetings with U.S. law enforcement, U.S. 
officials, and Chinese officials with those chemical companies, 
that they are enhancing their KYC to western standards. We 
should ensure that these meetings take place to see that it is 
actually happening.
    The other components to that is we attack the precursor 
network and the flow of those chemicals. We should see 
obviously a decrease. The other aspect of this is the Mexican 
cartels, if the Chinese are stopping the precursors coming from 
China, will have to seek other sources of supply. They will 
have to go elsewhere. That is what would be a dramatic step. 
That would be a hopeful step.
    The other part of this that I want to see within the United 
States is our capability to act ourselves. It is an opportunity 
to work with the Chinese to see this happen, but if they do 
not, we should place these chemical companies on what I call 
the pre-sanction list, and have a discussion with these Chinese 
authorities, and give them the opportunity to act. If they do 
not, then sanction the chemical company and do it ourselves.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you. Dr. Felbab-Brown. In the last 
few years, Chinese criminal organizations have taken over the 
vast majority of money laundering for drug cartels. This 
criminal activity is driven by huge demand in China to 
illegally convert Chinese currency into U.S. dollars due to 
strict capital controls put in place by the Chinese government. 
How can the United States best combat the money laundering by 
Chinese organizations that enable the drug cartels?
    Dr. Felbab-Brown. There is no simple answer. The 
underground banking system that you are referring to is only 
one of the methods that Chinese money launderers are using. 
They are also using trade-based methods, increasingly even in 
the United States, real estate, and cashier's check.
    Detection sting operations are all important elements of 
identifying the tools they are resorting to. Obviously, Know 
Your Customer laws also have benefits in providing intelligence 
on dismantling the money laundering networks. Insisting on 
better monitoring within the Chinese banking sector is another 
important step. One of the positive things that happened in 
Beijing at the U.S. China Counter Narcotics Working Group 
meeting was that for the first time, representatives from 
Chinese banks, including the Bank of China, were part of side 
meetings.
    There are many opportunities to act, many challenges in the 
way that the Chinese money launderers are laundering money. 
Many of those are merit transactions in the three countries, 
China, Mexico, United States, where the money never crosses no 
international wires. That limits the opportunities. But the 
less cooperation we have from China, the less we are able to 
act. But I agree that we can continue strengthening on our own 
money laundering efforts.
    A lot of the focus has been on bulk cash moving across the 
U.S.-Mexico border. Frankly, that's an outdated method of money 
laundering. Other channels are far more potent and carrying far 
greater flows today.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you. Another question for you, 
Doctor. In negotiations with the United States, China has 
frequently claimed that they cannot disrupt the trade of 
fentanyl precursors since they cannot distinguish illegal 
shipments from normal commerce.
    Know Your Customer laws where sellers are required to 
confirm the legitimacy of their buyers would help identify 
illegal trade, but China has so far refused to adopt these 
protocols. How can the United States further pressure China to 
implement these requirements?
    Dr. Felbab-Brown. I think there are multiple steps that the 
United States could take. Know Your Customer laws are common 
practice around the world, way outside of simply the 
pharmaceutical industry. If China continues to insist that they 
are too expensive to adopt, China should feel the economic 
consequences of not adopting them.
    This would include preventing market access by Chinese 
companies, sanctioning some Chinese companies, placing them on 
either sanctions or pre-sanctions list, as my fellow witness 
stated, or taking other measures, developing portfolios of 
leverage, visa denial on key industry operatives, key industry 
officials, for example.
    Shaming China. China is responsive to shaming. It is a 
country that prides itself as being the world's toughest drug 
cop. The coalition against the threat of synthetic drugs that 
the United States launched, and that's China abstained from was 
a powerful tool that are opportunities to build more leverage 
more effects within the coalition so China becomes responsive.
    Senator Hassan. OK. I am going to follow-up on that just a 
second. Then turn to Senator Romney. How would the United 
States benefit from creating a more global approach to 
disrupting the fentanyl supply chain, more specifically, with 
the cooperation of Australian authorities and other Southeast 
Asian nations force China to take more concrete actions?
    Dr. Felbab-Brown. I think it is important to expand the 
work of the coalition on synthetic threats broadly, and this is 
indeed how the coalition has been constructed because in Asia 
and the Asia Pacific region, so far, we are not seeing 
significant fentanyl threat, but there is an immense 
methamphetamine threat that is linked to China.
    Chinese criminal networks are the principal vectors, 
traffickers of methamphetamine. China is very responsive to 
countries in Southeast Asia including in terms of law 
enforcement cooperation. It also uses law enforcement 
cooperation for its influence. Enhancing specifically that sub-
coalition that you refer to, Southeast Asian countries, 
Australia, New Zealand, is in my view, a very effective tool to 
motivate further action and consistent action from China.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you very much, Senator Romney.
    Senator Romney. Thank you. I am going to step back because 
I am not an expert in this topic at all, and I have not spoken 
with Chairman Xi about it, nor even Mexican authorities about 
it. So, I am going to ask very simply, and I am going to ask 
each of you where you think our focus ought to be most directed 
or whether we can have a focus.
    It strikes me that there are various elements where we have 
pressure or capacity to constrain. There's the demand side, 
which is trying to influence demand for narcotics and fentanyl 
in the United States. That strikes me as a very difficult task 
to take on, finding a way to reduce demand in the United 
States. But that's one possibility.
    The next is the border, which is to make a very aggressive 
effort to secure the border electronically, with monitoring 
systems, to evaluate what's coming across the border. The 
reason I think it's difficult is because it can come, of 
course, by people carrying the product over. It is not a very 
heavy product. It is small. It can come in a through the mail, 
it can come by aircraft, it could come by ships. The border 
strikes me as a very difficult one to substantially restrict 
the flow.
    Then there are the cartels. Going after the cartels. Ending 
organized crime is something we have been trying to do since 
the 1930s or probably before that, and so I wonder whether we 
are going to be able to stop organized crime in Mexico.
    The next one is precursors. Going after the precursors that 
are coming from China. I do not know how easy it is to make the 
precursor, how effective China might be in cutting off the 
development of precursor.
    Then we go on to money laundering and the financial systems 
to try and cutoff financial systems. It would seem to me, as a 
novice in this area, that if someone's willing to pay you money 
and someone's willing to get paid that money, they are going to 
find a way to launder it. We can try and stop all sort of 
vehicles to make it easy, but ultimately, buyers and sellers 
are going to be able to complete a transaction.
    As I look at those, I wonder which are the ones we should 
focus on? What's the one or two that is going to be most 
effective in being able to reduce the scourge of fentanyl in 
our country? I will start in the center here with Ms. Realuyo--
all right. I got close to that. What is the origin of that 
name?
    Ms. Realuyo. Filipino.
    Senator Romney. Filipino. All right. Excellent. Please, do 
you have a thought on that?
    Ms. Realuyo. Sure. You have actually taken a look at the 
entire business cycle as we were taught at Harvard Business 
School. We got to figure out how your efficiencies are. One of 
the greatest challenges is the actual effectiveness in terms of 
addiction of the pill, as well as the profit margin.
    One of the estimates now is that it costs $0.30 in a 
Mexican lab to produce a fentanyl-laced pill that is being sold 
in Navy Yard, right in front of the Nats Stadium at $10 to $15, 
$15 to $20 here in the DC area. That is a reason to now switch 
to synthetic drugs if you are a trafficker, and then also, it 
is harder to detect, and our DEA colleagues know this as 
opposed to other plant-based drugs that have scents like 
heroin, marijuana, or cocaine.
    But I still think we need to come back to, which is not 
really the topic of, it is the demand. We are about to enter in 
prom season here in the United States, and there are tremendous 
campaigns like One Pill Can Kill, which is done by the DEA. 
Every one of us as members of our community need to impress 
upon our youth, and then more importantly, how deadly these 
things that you are ordering online.
    I have been looking at the digitalization of illicit 
networks and more importantly, in the cyber/physical domain. 
All these things that we talk about that are criminal networks, 
they now have a parallel market on the Internet. A lot of it 
has to do with these social media platforms where they 
literally have--young people exchange with a trafficker. 
There's no words, it's just the use of emojis, and amounts, and 
numbers. It is their own language.
    But more importantly, we as parents and as educators are 
not watching what our kids are doing online. Then, the drug 
gets sent or gets actually physically exchanged at the parking 
lot or the McDonald's next to the high school.
    We still need to go to the demand piece. I think raising 
awareness, and looking at the prevention part, and treatment 
part are very important. Obviously, our hearing today is 
looking at the supply piece where I also think, having been a 
former banker at Goldman Sachs, plucked out by General Powell 
to come and fight the war on terror financially, we can use the 
exact same toolkit to actually constrain.
    My colleagues have talked about the developments of the 
Chinese money laundering organizations. They really rely on 
this technology platform like WeChat, just as we all transfer 
money on Zelle, PayPal, or Venmo. They have Venmo for all these 
types of illicit activity.
    The other thing we did not talk about was the use of 
cryptocurrencies. We are starting to see the Jalisco cartel 
very sophisticated out of the Guadalajara area, starting to use 
what are called virtual wallets. They will pay young people to 
set up a wallet to load dollars here in the United States in 
Bitcoin, or Ethereum, or some form of--and then they take the 
pesos out in automated teller machines (ATMs) in Mexico. This 
is an area where we can impart on our foreign counterparts, 
methods and means of imposing more controls and what I call the 
cyber-physical world of how these groups are circumventing, 
what I call, traditional law enforcement and regulatory kind of 
policies in order to go after the money, but also the demand.
    Senator Romney. Thank you. Madam Chair.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you. Senator Rosen.

               OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR ROSEN

    Senator Rosen. Thank you Chair Hassan, Ranking Member 
Romney. This is a really important hearing, and thank you for 
graciously allowing me to ask the first set of questions. This 
is a critically important topic, and the fentanyl crisis, like 
you all say, we all know this, it is devastating.
    In my home State of Nevada, communities all across Nevada, 
the Southern Nevada Health District reported in February of 
this year, that between 2020 and 2023, the number of fentanyl 
overdoses among residents of Clark County, our largest county 
in Nevada, is increased by 97 percent.
    It is one of the reasons why earlier this year, I returned 
to the Southern Border to meet with Border Patrol and U.S. 
Customs and Border Protection (CBP) to find out really what 
those law enforcement officers need to help stop the flow of 
fentanyl into the United States. Since returning, I am really 
proud to have passed bipartisan legislation to address the 
fentanyl crisis, voting for increased investments in 
technologies that help and intercept drugs. But as to what you 
have alluded to, much more work needs to be done.
    I am going to talk a little bit about sea. We know we have 
the border, but we have the sea. Last week at an Armed Services 
Committee hearing, U.S. Southern Command (SOUTHCOM) Commander 
Richardson, the general, he discussed our armed services 
ability to detect and seize maritime drug shipments. They are 
coming in that way too. She said that even with intelligence 
cooperation with partner nations, they are only able to seize 
about 10 percent of drug shipments coming in by sea.
    Ms. Realuyo, what steps can we use or to better equip our 
service members and DHS personnel to stop the flow of fentanyl, 
and also, how can we leverage our international partners to 
prevent that from coming here like we need to do with defense?
    Ms. Realuyo. Particularly in terms of maritime routes, we 
can use a lot of what we call actionable intelligence. My 
colleague, Christopher Urben, talked about Plan Colombia. We 
have developed over 20 years of real knowledge on how to 
interdict and more importantly, intercept through international 
trafficking routes. That really is dependent on international 
cooperation, which is the topic of today's piece.
    How do we build those trusted networks is a bigger 
challenge. I think, it is not a secret that we have had a lot 
of challenges working with Mexico on counter-narcotics due to 
corruption to the extent that we actually arrested the top 
general who was implicated for just a couple weeks.
    The bigger question is how do we educate also our own law 
enforcement, military, and intelligence officers to understand 
those patterns very well. With Homeland Security, there are 
trade transparency units that work against trade-based money 
laundering. The question is how can we create--we have a system 
out of SOUTHCOM that General Richardson oversees, which is the 
Joint Interagency Task Force South, looking at now all illicit 
trafficking, not just cocaine, which had traditionally been 
looking at it. It is also looking at all types of things, 
contraband, people, money.
    The question then is how do we build that to be a broader 
kind of model to go after all the ports of entry (POE), whether 
they be by land, sea, or now air, because I think you have 
heard about the drones; now that are crossing and dropping 
payloads. These are the things that we need to really impress 
upon how we can keep abreast of all this emerging technology.
    I look at emerging technology from the dark side of 
globalization. How is AI, for example, or how our drones are 
being abused, and then more importantly, exploited for the bad 
as opposed to the good. We have seen the Mexican cartels very 
adroit at incorporating new technologies like crypto payments, 
like drones to surveil, figuring out where are the kind of 
weaknesses on our border, Nevada, Arizona. They are quite smart 
in the way they apply it.
    But the bigger thing is how could we keep abreast, and that 
has to do a lot with resources. Keeping our analysts really up-
to-date with how new technology is being applied by the 
criminal cartels.
    Senator Rosen. I appreciate you thinking about all of that 
because they are going to try to stay one step ahead of us, and 
our job is to try to maybe out thank them, and to try to get 
one step ahead of them.
    But you talked about educating, and we do need to educate 
our law enforcement so that fentanyl guidance for law 
enforcement. Of course, this week the President signed into law 
the END FENTANYL Act, a bipartisan legislation I co-led with 
Senator Scott and Chair Hassan. This new law is going to help 
crack down on drug smuggling requiring CBP to update its 
outdated guidance more frequently so that CBP officers have 
more information on how to better handle this. As you said, 
they are constantly coming up with new ways to get these drugs 
in.
    Again, how can we be sure that other nations are up-to-
date? Are they up-to-date on their fentanyl guidance documents 
for their law enforcement personnel? Then to Mr. Urben, are 
drug enforcement personnel in Mexico, China, and other 
countries, are they receiving that proper training?
    Ms. Realuyo. I work actually at the Perry Center where we 
are an arm of the Defense Department. Through education and 
academic engagements, we try to share and more importantly, 
export our best practices. I just finished a course for 46 mid-
level to senior law enforcement, and policy, and military 
officers from 16 countries. Now, they were taught what the 
fentanyl threat that's coming to their countries. I think, that 
they found fentanyl now in Guatemala, Panama, Colombia, and 
Costa Rica. It is not just the United States and Canada facing 
this.
    The big question is how do you build that trust with your 
partner? I also work with U.S. Northern Command and Army North, 
and we are doing a lot of what we call confidence building 
exercises where we actually show techniques and you would be 
pleased to hear that the U.S. military and law enforcement are 
actually teaching the Mexican counterparts how to handle 
fentanyl.
    I do not know if you realize also we are not using canine 
units to the extent possible because the drug is so powerful on 
a human being. It actually overwhelms the canines who are quite 
valuable in terms of these things. But for example, maybe the 
Mexicans did not know that until they attended the training. 
These are the types of ways that day by day at the tactical and 
operational level, they are actually quite good relations.
    The bigger question is how do we get to the political will 
at the strategic level to see eye to eye and understand that 
the threat of fentanyl is killing not just Americans, but 
Mexicans as well. That is coming around, I hope.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you. Mr. Urben, do you want to talk 
about the international cooperation, make sure they are 
receiving some of this training?
    Mr. Urben. Sure. Like I mentioned earlier, I was overseas 
for 10 years. With DEA, whether it's DEA, Homeland Security 
Investigations (HSI), Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), we 
develop relationships with our counterparts. Certainly, over 
the last few years, that intelligence, that training, that 
information has certainly been pushed out to the field where we 
have trained our foreign counterparts.
    For example, I was in Vietnam and talked about this very 
issue with my foreign counterparts. We are very good at in DEA 
is certainly pushing out the international training component. 
I am very confident that that has happened over the last few 
years in terms of building capacity and their awareness of how 
dangerous fentanyl is and being trained on how to handle it.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you. Senator Lankford.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LANKFORD

    Senator Lankford. Thank you. Thanks to all of you for 
expertise that you are bringing. Can I ask just a broad 
question? What other nations are dealing with the fentanyl use 
like we are? It is such an incredibly inexpensive drug to be 
able to produce. Obviously, it is killing a hundred thousand 
Americans now we are seeing. What other nations are dealing 
with the drug addiction issues that we are dealing with right 
now, for fentanyl, specifically?
    Dr. Felbab-Brown. Currently Mexico, even though Mexican 
President Lopez Obrador continues to deny that fentanyl is used 
in Mexico and Canada, which has some of the same death rates as 
the United States. Fentanyl is also used in parts of Europe, 
Estonia, where there has been a long-established market and 
various fentanyl amounts have popped up around other parts of 
Europe, like Northern Nordic countries.
    The bigger issue in Europe currently is other type of 
synthetic opioids, so-called nitazenes. Fentanyl has been 
seized in various other parts of the world. But part of the 
challenge of answering your question, Senator Lankford, is that 
very many countries do not in fact monitor either the flows or 
the use of fentanyl. There might be much more than is known.
    Senator Lankford. Right. For the countries that have been 
successful in trying to be able to deter fentanyl use in their 
country, what have they found to be successful?
    Dr. Felbab-Brown. I think the sole case of success are the 
Nordic countries about a decade and a half ago where fentanyl 
was showing up in Norway, in Finland around 2005, 2006, and 
2007. This was before fentanyl became a mainstream drug, and 
because the ease of production was significantly simplified.
    At the time, the Nordic countries were able to very rapidly 
dismantle fentanyl supplying networks, how they did 
investigations and arrested the entire network that was 
bringing it in. But those networks were small, marginal, they 
were not networks with the power, the extent of Mexican cartels 
that are robustly establishing operations around Europe these 
days, or the diversification and scale of Chinese criminal 
networks. It was very different days than they are right now.
    Senator Lankford. Obviously, thank you, the technology's 
increased for detection of fentanyl, but we are still not there 
to have a visual spectral analysis to be able to pick it up, to 
be able to evaluate that.
    As far as the movement of technology, Senator Hassan and I 
have continued to be able to work on outbound inspection to try 
to pick up guns and drugs heading south, or guns and cash, I 
guess heading south, and then also the inbound.
    It is my understanding we have about $300 million worth of 
non-intrusive inspection (NII) equipment sitting in a warehouse 
waiting for Congress to be able to finish out the allocation of 
the dollars to actually install it. I am sure that will make a 
difference for us.
    But as far as inspection equipment and locations for that, 
or new types of technology for detecting it, what are we seeing 
at this point? Both handheld, that can be used by local law 
enforcement or at a border. We seeing anything?
    Mr. Urben. There has been a dramatic improvement in terms 
of detection, in terms of handheld, and at the border. It just 
needs to be deployed, but deployed on both sides of the border 
to detect the fentanyl coming in. Right?
    There is another component of Mexico where we need to 
buildup capacity there, but within the United States, there has 
been an improvement in terms of technology just needs to be 
purchased, trained, and, and delivered to the field. Every 
field officer or investigator that has to deal with this issue 
on a narcotics unit should have a handheld detector so they 
know what they are dealing with.
    But in terms of Mexico itself, if I could digress, there 
needs to be a dramatic improvement in terms of resources down 
there, and you could push those resources out there as well to 
impact the fentanyl trade.
    Senator Lankford. Resources are one thing, the personnel to 
actually run it and that are trusted partners to be able to do 
that in those areas, that's something very different.
    Mr. Urben. It's something very different. From my 
perspective, and Senator Romney brought this up, in terms of 
organized crime, it needs to be the goal of the United States 
to take down the Mexican cartels. The reason I say that is the 
only way we are going to actually win this battle against 
fentanyl is to go after the Mexican cartels.
    There is an opportunity with new leadership coming in 
Mexico. We need to go back to Plan Colombia and what has 
demonstrated success. It is not going to be easy, but the 
things that I would suggest are one vetted units. We need to 
buildup the capacity of Mexico and our joint operations within 
the United States to go after the cartels. There should be a 
collaborative relationship. They are an ally of ours. We share 
a border with them. We have tremendous trade with them. We 
should commit to this relationship.
    There are new things we do, not just with vetted units in 
Mexico, but things called joint investigative teams where we 
work collaboratively, in the United States, with officials from 
other countries. They do this in Europe a lot. Again, we should 
fully commit to that.
    The second part is extraditions. We can do this tomorrow 
and this would have a dramatic impact on Mexican cartel 
members. We have a treaty with Mexico, they should honor our 
extradition requests, and that would have a dramatic impact. I 
could go on and on to different ideas, but building up that 
capacity and committing to it would make a big difference.
    Senator Lankford. There has been some push for additional 
authority to be able to sanction individuals in these cartels. 
You are also talking about extradition. We need the additional 
authorities to be able to pass for the sanction authorities, 
but what authorities already exist that are not currently being 
used?
    Mr. Urben. The last sanction order, the Executive Order 
(EO) that the Biden administration came out with, it is a low 
threshold to sanction individuals and companies that are 
facilitators of the fentanyl trade. That is what I talked about 
earlier in terms of standing up a sanctions platform whether to 
go after Chinese chemical companies or any facilitator in 
Mexico. If we cannot impact them with arrest and extradition, 
just frankly sanction them, it is a good use of time and money.
    Senator Lankford. OK. Criminal consequences here for those 
that are trafficking in fentanyl, is there a need to be able to 
increase consequences, obviously, on the Federal level for 
trafficking across the border, or to be able to hold people to 
greater account if there is a death from fentanyl, to be able 
to trace that back to everyone in the chain of distribution?
    Mr. Urben. Absolutely. Everyone should be prosecuted to the 
fullest extent of the law from the death back to the source of 
supply. We should be using the racketeering laws that we had 
that we went after Italian organized crime. We should be going 
after Chinese organized crime that's operating in this 
country----
    Senator Lankford. Is that happening right now?
    Mr. Urben. No. We should have that.
    Senator Lankford. That is one of the concerns that I have, 
is that those are authorities that currently exist right now. 
That if you have the death of a 25-year-old based on a fentanyl 
use of something they thought was an OxyContin, was actually 
had fentanyl laced in it, that individual being able to track 
back all the distribution to the beginning.
    Mr. Urben. There have been prosecutions on exactly what you 
are saying. There needs to be more because every death that is 
a result of drugs trafficked from the Mexican cartel should 
result in one of those prosecutions.
    Senator Lankford. Thank you.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR OSSOFF

    Senator Ossoff [presiding.] I am briefly assuming the 
duties of the chair while Chair Hassan votes. Professor 
Realuyo, Chair Hassan and I helped to lead a bipartisan 
delegation to Beijing last fall, and our bipartisan delegation 
unanimously and with force raised directly with President Xi, 
our insistence that China takes stronger action to end the 
export of fentanyl precursor chemicals from China's chemical 
manufacturing sector onward, much of it to Mexico where it is 
synthesized and the fentanyl winds up on the streets of the 
United States.
    What is your assessment of progress or a lack of progress 
that has been made on China living up to its commitment, which 
were reinforced at a bilateral meeting between Presidents Biden 
and Xi to crack down on fentanyl precursor exports?
    Ms. Realuyo. I welcomed your delegation's visit. We are 
excited to see the fact that you were there to provide some 
more pressure, and the San Francisco summit between Presidents 
Biden and Xi. There are some small incremental steps, but we 
have yet to see what is going to come of it. I am in the trust, 
but verify camp, and more importantly, nothing happens in China 
without the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) knowing.
    There are some arguments that, they cannot control the big 
pharmaceuticals or the big chemical companies are known. It is 
more the smaller ones that are very hard to control there's 
always going to be an excuse as to why they are not enforcing. 
This is where I think that we need to hold them accountable 
with regular verifiable reports on law enforcement actions that 
they have taken. Or more importantly, also for them to share 
with us their intel on which of the illicit fentanyl and 
precursor chemical companies they are looking at and then what 
actions they are taking against them.
    Then we also spoke earlier in the hearing about the Chinese 
money laundering organizations. China makes money on both 
sides. It makes money through the precursor chemicals and the 
fentanyl sales to the Mexican cartels and others, but then 
also, they are making one to two percent on the money that they 
are laundering, which are U.S. dollars that are very precious 
to the Chinese who have very limited access to hard currency.
    There is not really this interest. Perhaps there is a 
diplomatic interest because they have been shamed into a corner 
to make it look like they are playing ball with us. But I think 
we have to hold them to account much more. It's only been one, 
the first meeting was in late January of the new joint kind of 
working group on fentanyl, but whether it is quarterly or every 
month even to see what actions they have taken, that is the 
question I have as to how true the commitment is. Not by word, 
but by action.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Professor. Mr. Urben, on a 
bipartisan basis here in the Senate and in the administration, 
there is a strong will to sustain that pressure on the PRC to 
end the export of fentanyl precursor chemicals to our 
hemisphere and anywhere in the world.
    Were China to live up to its obligations to end that export 
business, from what other sources in the world do you expect 
the gap in the market might be filled?
    Mr. Urben. Sure. If the Chinese chemical companies were no 
longer a source of supply for the Mexican cartels, I think the 
first place they would go is India. I think they would source 
India as a possible place for their chemicals. If the Chinese 
lived up to this agreement, I think as the Mexican cartels had 
to adapt to a different source of supply, whether it be India, 
Eastern Europe, or another Asian country, it would present 
investigative opportunities because these are other places 
where we have joint relationships and work with those other 
countries like India on ongoing investigative matters. That 
would be the first place I would look for the Mexican cartels 
to go to.
    Senator Ossoff. I will ask my office to place an inquiry 
with DHS and DOJ to ascertain whether current law enforcement 
cooperation relationships are postured to begin those 
investigations or augment what investigations are already 
underway. Now to what extent are we seeing supply entering the 
market from sources other than China at this moment?
    Mr. Urben. To my knowledge, there are not any. The Chinese 
are still the primary precursors, chemical suppliers to the 
Mexican cartels. That has not changed yet. There is not 
intelligence that certainly I am aware of that indicates that 
the Mexican cartels are seeking other sources of supply, 
significant other sources of supply for those chemicals.
    Senator Ossoff. Professor, can please characterize rest of 
world demand and consumption.
    Ms. Realuyo. Of fentanyl itself, the United States and 
Canada are still the primary consumers of illicit fentanyl, and 
that is why the rate of deaths are so dramatic in our two 
countries. We are starting to see there- is two ways we look at 
fentanyl. There is legitimate fentanyl that is diverted. These 
are the ones that you have heard about stolen from hospitals or 
someone who actually takes it from the supply chain that is 
legitimate. Then the one that we are looking at in our hearing 
today is illicit fentanyl.
    I spend a lot of time working in Latin America, so it is 
obviously in Mexico, but we were starting to see reports of 
fentanyl being intercepted in Guatemala, Costa Rica, Panama was 
a diversion case, and Colombia. I work a lot in Colombia where 
we are starting to see fentanyl-laced and other synthetic drugs 
start to appear.
    Post-Covid, all the discotheques and bars have reopened, 
which is a point of sale for a lot of these kind of drugs. We 
have actually seen the Colombians start to ask for increased 
awareness and training on how to handle synthetic drugs. Also, 
that Colombia still continues to be the top producer of cocaine 
that also need precursor chemicals that also come from China. 
These are the things that we are looking at.
    The other day, on Friday, Secretary Blinken was at the 
United Nations (UN) in Vienna on a global meeting basically 
warning that this fentanyl crisis is coming your way. A lot of 
this it is because there is underreporting, and then more 
point, people do not recognize what a fentanyl overdose looks 
like.
    Here in the United States we actually have access to Narcan 
and there are ways that we're measure the numbers are so high 
because we are tracking the numbers. Other countries do not 
necessarily commit a death to an autopsy. That is why other 
countries that might be experiencing fentanyl-related deaths 
are not recording them. The numbers are lower in Canada, I 
understand, because they do not test for cause of death as much 
as we do in the United States.
    But it is concerning as it grows bigger and better. Also, 
the Europeans are expecting fentanyl to arrive for their summer 
season of the party goers in places like Spain and Greece.
    Senator Ossoff. That was my next question, is given how 
addictive and lucrative this trade is, why hasn't it penetrated 
Europe?
    Ms. Realuyo. It is starting now and the bigger thing is 
perhaps they are not detecting it. It is kind of hard to detect 
because it is usually in capsule or pill format that does not 
emit the odor that the canine units that our colleagues at DEA 
use can detect heroin, cocaine, and marijuana that have an odor 
and that the dogs are trained for.
    I was in Spain like three weeks ago where they had the 
first death of an adolescent, 14 years old, with what is called 
pink cocaine, which is actually a synthetic drug. Now the 
Spanish are trying to figure out who are the traffickers that 
brought it there. We do know that the Mexican cartels are 
trafficking, not just in cocaine, but maybe starting to bring 
those fentanyl-laced pills as well to the European market.
    As I mentioned earlier, it costs about $0.30 cents for 
these pills to be produced in a lab in Mexico. It is being sold 
on the streets here in front of Nat Stadium at $15 to $20 for 
that same pill, extremely lucrative.
    Senator Ossoff. What is the flow from precursor production, 
to fentanyl production, to trafficking and sale in Europe? Can 
you map that for us please?
    Ms. Realuyo. It is a little bit different. The synthetics 
that they have in Europe are actually different drugs than what 
we have. Fentanyl's probably the last to enter the market. The 
bigger thing is because synthetics produce a much more 
effective high, and a little bit more addictive, and are easy 
to take because it is basically a pill. It is kind of an easier 
way to be introduced to drugs.
    This is a part that I am was trying to understand is how 
could you educate our partner nations about the fear that 
adolescents and younger people are going to be consuming the 
way that we do in the United States. But we probably can expect 
that the same exact routes that are maritime routes that are 
being used to push cocaine, that here in the United States we 
do not consume compared to before, are being shipped to Europe, 
are probably the same exact maritime routes that are going to 
be used in order to piggyback with these synthetic drugs, 
including fentanyl.
    Senator Ossoff. Dr. Felbab-Brown, your take please on the 
rest of world market and trends in production, trafficking, 
sale, use, and overdose outside of the United States.
    Dr. Felbab-Brown. You have said why hasn't it not arrived 
to Europe? I would phrase it, why hasn't it not yet arrived to 
Europe? The reality is that there are all the significant gaps 
in drug markets. Essentially, they are a function of 
traffickers being interested to building a new market.
    In the 1980's when the United States started experiencing 
the cocaine epidemic, there was plenty of coca cultivated in 
the Andes, and plenty of cocaine produced to supply Europe. 
Yet, traffickers were not interested in developing those roots 
for another decade and a half.
    As I have mentioned earlier, Mexican cartels are bringing 
up significant networks around Europe. They are both partnering 
with Bulgarian, Turkish, and Albanian actors. They are also 
starting to develop methamphetamine production in Europe in 
places like the Netherlands, Belgian, and Spain. Some of that 
meth is going for sales abroad, including to Asia Pacific.
    But those actors are primary possibilities for shipping 
cocaine and more for shipping fentanyl and more importantly for 
manufacturing fentanyl in Europe. It is also very possible that 
Chinese actors will be selling either finished fentanyl, or 
other synthetic opioids, or their precursors to actors within 
Europe.
    In my view, it is a matter of time before it does hit in 
Europe, and in a matter of time where traffickers will seek to 
penetrate highly valuable markets in Australia, New Zealand, 
and Japan.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you. Madam Chair, I was just getting 
started. But one more question, if I might, which is the 
bipartisan border security measure co-authored by a Member of 
the Subcommittee, Senator Lankford, included some provisions to 
substantially augment our capacity to detect, interdict, and 
stop fentanyl flows into the us.
    The story of that legislation is well known. Congressional 
Republicans stopped it in its tracks at the cynical and 
politically motivated request of the former President. I 
introduced some legislation last week as a potential stop gap 
measure to surge fentanyl detection equipment and technology to 
the Southern Border.
    I know, Mr. Urben, that you have touched on the importance 
of detection technology, technical advances in detection 
technology during your testimony today. But can you just 
comment for a moment on what more you think can be achieved if 
we field sufficient and more sophisticated detection technology 
at ports of entry?
    Mr. Urben. Ports of entry, obviously, we want to detect the 
fentanyl before it comes in and it is dispersed throughout the 
United States for sale. The more resources you can surge at the 
border and ports of entry in order to detect with more 
sophisticated equipment that is needed, it will benefit 
everyone in law enforcement.
    The second part of this is in terms of equipment that you 
would push out to the field within the United States. Your 
investigator in narcotics unit needs those detectors so we can 
efficiently identify the fentanyl to protect the officer, to 
protect the public.
    The more equipment that is being pushed out is a benefit to 
everybody in terms of efficiently moving forward in 
investigations and protecting officers as they deal with the 
threat.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Urben. Thank you, Madam 
Chair.
    Senator Hassan [presiding.] Thank you, Senator Ossoff, and 
thank you all. I have a few more questions, and because I had 
to leave to go vote, there may be a little bit of overlap. I 
apologize if you have covered it in my absence.
    But let me start. This is a question really to all of you. 
In recent years, there has been an increase in the number of 
Mexican youth dying from fentanyl overdoses, and you have 
mentioned that. The new domestic impact of the fentanyl crisis 
may increase the willingness of Mexican leaders to cooperate 
with U.S. law enforcement in our efforts to stop fentanyl 
trafficking.
    What steps can Congress take now to ensure that our Federal 
law enforcement has the tools and authorities that it needs so 
that it is ready to cooperate, perhaps with a newly cooperative 
Mexican government in combating fentanyl? We will start with 
you, Dr. Felbab-Brown.
    Dr. Felbab-Brown. Thank you, Madam Chair. I think the most 
important issue is really to work on will of the Mexican 
government to cooperate. There are plenty of opportunities for 
cooperation if that will is resurrected. Currently, it is very 
weak how we get to resurrecting the will.
    Certainly, improving non-intrusive board inspection is an 
important element, but I would advocate also improving or 
strengthening even intrusive border inspections. That is 
economically painful, but 100,000 Americans dying, it is far 
more painful. The cost of the fentanyl crisis is well over $2 
trillion at this point. So intrusive inspection is something 
that the Mexican government will start paying attention to.
    Indictment portfolios of Mexican government officials who 
collaborate with cartels or who subvert law enforcement efforts 
to jointly collaborate are also very important. There might be 
a time where considering the foreign terrorist organization 
designation against the cartels might become appropriate as 
well.
    I would also say though, that on the United States side, we 
should be expanding both intelligence collections on Mexican 
cartels, prioritize them higher in the collections priorities 
list, as well as expand the frequency, the extent of organized 
crime drug task forces. They are very powerful, very effective, 
and they need to look at all aspects of the cartels' 
activities, not simply fentanyl because their expansion into 
legal economies, their expansion into wildlife trafficking, 
their expansion into water distribution, all feed their 
economic power, their smuggling networks, and their political 
power within Mexico.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you. Ms. Realuyo.
    Ms. Realuyo. Just to compliment what Vanda has said. There 
is an anticipation. As you know, there is going to be a new 
president of Mexico in the next coming months, and we hope that 
person would be a female for the first time is more pragmatic, 
but it also is an opportunity in their first 100 days for the 
United States to exert pressure and actually exact from them 
collaboration and cooperation on the counter-narcotics front.
    That could be partnered with, as I mentioned, if they do 
not play ball, we should actually think about imposing tariffs 
because we are their greatest trading partner. And ways that 
you can actually put together the instruments of national power 
beyond the law enforcement and military aspect, but include 
those economic and trade pieces with United States-Mexico-
Canada Agreement (USMCA).
    The other piece we need to take a look at is how we can get 
them to collaborate. There's a National Security Act that was 
passed under AMLO that is extremely cumbersome for American law 
enforcement officials to work with actionable intelligence with 
their counterparts. Through diplomatic means, there should be a 
way to reverse that and more importantly, get more boots on the 
ground in order to go after the cartels we know where the labs 
are, we know who the heads are, and more importantly, it is 
just a question of action and political will on the Mexican 
side.
    The change of government could be an opportune moment, but 
we would have to encourage policymakers to act quickly to show 
what the carrots and sticks are in terms of getting movement to 
dismantle the Mexican cartels.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you. Mr. Urben.
    Mr. Urben. It is a real opportunity as the national 
security law that my fellow panelists just mentioned really set 
back law enforcement engagement with United States and Mexico 
decades. We need a complete reset.
    The opportunities exist with vetted units. We need to 
establish this relationship through law enforcement, judicial 
process, because as I said before, Mexico is our neighbor. They 
are an ally. We have tremendous trade. We need to establish a 
relationship that goes forward well into the future with this 
collaborative relationship to go after transnational organized 
crime.
    So reestablishing vetted units. We went from 120 to less 
than 20 vetted unit members after this national security law. 
We need to get back to 200. Extraditions; extraditions we have 
a treaty, they should be done tomorrow. As soon as we ask for 
an extradition, that should be done in a timely manner, and the 
same thing will happen in Mexico that when we did in Plan 
Colombia when we brought AUC and the FARC to justice. They 
essentially capitulated, and that is how, essentially, Plan 
Colombia was a success.
    We need to establish joint investigative teams. That is a 
concept that happened in Europe, where we put together Mexican 
liaison officers with U.S. law enforcement. Again, we are going 
to collaborate well into the future. It is not going to change.
    Last, a sanctions task force. I have to bring up Federal 
agents in Mexico do not have diplomatic immunity. That is 
absolutely absurd, and to move forward, they need to be 
established with diplomatic immunity. No doubt within the 
United States, you need to increase funding. You need to have a 
legislation that allows Federal law enforcement to wiretap 
encrypted applications. Data targeting is another component 
that you could really leverage against the Mexican cartels and 
Chinese money launderers. There's funding that's specifically 
needed for that.
    Senator Hassan. OK. Thank you. That is very helpful. I want 
to follow up a little on that to make sure that the Federal 
Government is focused on targeting and dismantling the criminal 
organizations that manufacture and transport fentanyl as well 
as those who support these groups through money laundering.
    How would prioritizing cartels and transnational criminal 
organizations as a target for our intelligence community (IC) 
improve our Federal law enforcement's capacity to disrupt these 
entities? Mr. Urben.
    Mr. Urben. The intelligence community has tremendous 
resources and insight and data tanks. We should be using all of 
that collaboratively with U.S. law enforcement to target these 
organizations. It is an untapped resource, and it should be 
used much more robustly as we go after the Mexican cartels and 
then Chinese money launderers.
    Senator Hassan. OK. Thank you. To Ms. Realuyo, U.S. law 
enforcement is seeing an uptick in fentanyl precursor shipments 
that originate in India. How will transnational criminal 
organizations adapt and change their practices if us Chinese 
and Mexican officials begin cracking down on illicit 
trafficking in their own countries more aggressively?
    Ms. Realuyo. That was brought up by Senator Ossoff. We were 
looking at how it is like a balloon effect, right? If we 
actually stop and lower the access to Chinese precursors, it is 
going to go to India. But India's a much more reliable partner. 
I know that there are already talks about the kind of morphing 
of the supply chain with our Indian counterparts. That is 
actually a promising area where we would be able to more easily 
set up joint investigative task forces with a more willing 
partner than necessarily with Mexico or with China.
    But remember, these groups are so agile and so innovative. 
There have been talks about they are producing their own 
chemicals in Mexico as well, which we should kind of put in 
there as an option. But they have a great thing going now, and 
it is very hard to stop this flow that is coming from China. 
The business is so lucrative, it is very hard for anyone to 
turn away from some product that has tremendous profit margin, 
more lucrative than any other product right now in the world.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you. Dr. Felbab-Brown, in 2021, 
President Biden created the Council on Transnational Organized 
Crime to centralize resources from across the Federal 
Government that are dedicated to countering transnational 
criminal organizations. What has the council accomplished so 
far, if anything?
    Dr. Felbab-Brown. I think establishing the council was a 
great idea, but to my knowledge, the council has not had even 
one meeting.
    Senator Hassan. OK. Could the United States better leverage 
existing organizations such as the Financial Crimes Enforcement 
Network (FCEN) to disrupt these sophisticated criminal groups?
    Dr. Felbab-Brown. Yes, absolutely. Elevating financial 
intelligence, both for the purpose of seizing money, but also 
for the purpose of building network picture and being able to 
mount arrests and prosecution is crucial.
    I think there are great opportunities to break down, still, 
very strong existing stove piping among law enforcement 
agencies, bring in more departments, think about utilizing 
wildlife crime investigators because both Chinese and Mexican 
criminal networks are often deeply implicated in wildlife 
trafficking. The level of hiding, the level of obstruction they 
put for law enforcement in the domain is often far weaker than 
in other domains. Focusing on that element will have 
potentially high payoffs in terms of detecting other parts of 
the network.
    I think there are very significant opportunities to truly 
move to a whole-of-government approach on the United States 
side, and not simply against fentanyl flows, right, but against 
the networks that smuggle fentanyl, including their political 
and government protectors.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you. I want to thank all three of you 
for joining us today in this discussion. Before the hearing 
ends, I want to give each of you a chance to highlight any 
areas of international counter fentanyl efforts that we did not 
cover today. If you think we have covered everything you wanted 
to say, just say so, but I always like to give people the 
opportunity. We will start with you, Mr. Urben.
    Mr. Urben. I think we have certainly covered Mexico and 
China. I do think there is two components. One is international 
cooperation with countries in Asia that do not have a fentanyl 
problem, but have a Chinese organized crime problem. They could 
be allies with us in this fight. You have Vietnam, Thailand, 
Laos, Australia. All those countries, we could increase 
resources in terms of our collaboration with law enforcement 
and it would benefit us in terms of attacking Chinese organized 
crime.
    The second one, we did not talk a lot about what we can do 
within the United States, but I do think going after Chinese 
money launderers using the racketeering laws, diminishing the 
ability of the use of WeChat for Chinese money launderers would 
be a dramatic improvement.
    The last part is data targeting that we have talked about 
here in terms of bringing all the data together to go after the 
cartels with target packages.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you. Ms. Realuyo.
    Ms. Realuyo. Just to compliment my co-witnesses, I think 
the real issue still goes back to demand. We did not cover it 
as much in the United States, but why does this market exist? 
Because of the demand. We have to educate. We are one of the 
most educated populations in the world. It is a shame that we 
have so many young people dying from the scourge of fentanyl 
poisonings. So how do we do that?
    Then more importantly, we did not really talk about it, the 
social media platforms are the means by which this addiction, 
and more importantly, the euphoria, and the attraction of 
synthetic drugs, including fentanyl and these drugs are 
creating the market.
    Also, that is how they basically push the product. I think 
in collaboration across all the agencies, we have to do a 
better collection of data of how these networks are 
interrelated, and then more importantly, use all the force of 
the U.S. Government in terms of our law enforcement 
intelligence agencies to break down the networks.
    There is specific nodes, and I still go back to it is all 
about the money. The Sinaloa Cartel, we have all the Chapitos, 
the sons of El Chapo, and El Chapo, under indictment, or 
imprisoned, and extradited, but we have still never captured 
the financier. It is very difficult to basically replace a 
financier compared to all the other ones who are running the 
different networks.
    So still going after the money, but also try to deal with 
that demand side. Then the enablers, which are literally the 
social media platforms that are seducing our young into 
becoming, sadly, users of such a deadly drug.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you, and Dr. Felbab-Brown.
    Dr. Felbab-Brown. Among the issues that we touched on is 
India. I think that it is important to continue building 
cooperation. The Biden administration has been doing so, but we 
have to realize that law enforcement in India, particularly 
counter-narcotics law enforcement, is very weak. The 
pharmaceutical industry is very powerful, yet subject to 
minimal regulations and their enforcement.
    India is already a significant supplier of synthetic drugs 
globally. So important opportunity to build those, this 
relationship, but a very long road as to what needs to happen.
    There are also significant opportunities to be engaging 
with our European partners on synthetic drugs broadly, and 
fentanyl and synthetic opioids, specifically. They tend to be 
some of the most trusted partners with whom we have the most 
robust relationships, and they are very useful as Mexican 
cartels are expanding their operations significantly in Europe 
and in other parts of the world.
    Synthetic drugs, specifically, synthetic opioids, fentanyl, 
nitazenes, are very different than other drugs because of the 
price-potency ratio, but also because they are driven by 
supply. This is not what customers are asking for, at least, 
not in the initial stages. It is not that one day users in the 
United States started asking for fentanyl. It is not that one 
day users in Britain have started asking for nitazenes, it is 
because it is driven by supply. Hence the importance of holding 
hearings like you just did, Chair Hassan, and focusing on 
expanding cooperation against supply.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you, all three of you, for spending 
so much time and care with us this afternoon. To Dr. Felbab-
Brown, Ms. Realuyo, and Mr. Urben, your testimony today has 
made a real difference, and it is a real contribution to our 
nation's security. I thought this was a fruitful discussion. We 
have a lot of new ideas that you have all identified, and some 
new problems to solve.
    This hearing record will remain open for 15 days until 5 
p.m. on April 4th for submissions of statements and questions 
for the record. With that, this hearing is adjourned. Thank 
you.
    [Whereupon, at 3:52 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

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