[Senate Hearing 118-254]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                          S. Hrg. 118-254

                  ASSESSING THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE'S
                      STRATEGY FOR SECURITY IN THE
                            BLACK SEA REGION

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                       SUBCOMMITTEE ON EUROPE AND
                     REGIONAL SECURITY COOPERATION

                                 OF THE

                     COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN RELATIONS
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION
                               __________

                            OCTOBER 25, 2023

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Relations
       
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                  Available via http://www.govinfo.gov

                               __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

                 COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN RELATIONS        

             BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland, Chairman        
ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey            JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho
JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire          MARCO RUBIO, Florida
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware         MITT ROMNEY, Utah
CHRISTOPHER MURPHY, Connecticut        PETE RICKETTS, Nebraska
TIM KAINE, Virginia                    RAND PAUL, Kentucky
JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon                   TODD YOUNG, Indiana
CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey             JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming
BRIAN SCHATZ, Hawaii                   TED CRUZ, Texas
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland             BILL HAGERTY, Tennessee
TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois              TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
                Damian Murphy, Staff Director          
       Christopher M. Socha, Republican Staff Director          
                   John Dutton, Chief Clerk          




                   SUBCOMMITTEE ON EUROPE AND        
                 REGIONAL SECURITY COOPERATION        

            JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire, Chairman        
CHRISTOPHER MURPHY, Connecticut      PETE RICKETTS, Nebraska
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland           RAND PAUL, Kentucky
TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois            JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming
BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland         MARCO RUBIO, Florida

                              (ii)        

 
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

Shaheen, Hon. Jeanne, U.S. Senator From New Hampshire............     1

Ricketts, Hon. Pete, U.S. Senator From Nebraska..................     3

O'Brien, Hon. James, Assistant Secretary, European and Eurasian 
  Affairs, United States Department of State, Washington, DC.....     4
    Prepared Statement...........................................     6

              Additional Material Submitted for the Record

Responses of Mr. James O'Brien to Questions Submitted by Senator 
  Jeanne Shaheen.................................................    24

Responses of Mr. James O'Brien to Questions Submitted by Senator 
  Tammy Duckworth................................................    24

State Department's Black Sea Security Strategy Report to Congress    26

                                 (iii)

  

 
                  ASSESSING THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE'S
                      STRATEGY FOR SECURITY IN THE
                            BLACK SEA REGION

                              ----------                              


                      WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 25, 2023

                           U.S. Senate,    
        Subcommittee on Europe and Regional
                              Security Cooperation,
                            Committee on Foreign Relations,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:32 p.m., in 
room SD-419, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Jeanne 
Shaheen presiding.
    Present: Senators Shaheen [presiding], Van Hollen, 
Duckworth, Ricketts, and Barrasso.

           OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JEANNE SHAHEEN, 
                U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE

    Senator Shaheen. This meeting of the Senate Foreign 
Relations Europe Subcommittee will now come to order.
    I want to thank Ranking Member Senator Ricketts for 
agreeing to hold the hearing on this very important topic and I 
also want to recognize the ambassador to Romania and the 
Romanian embassy officials who are here in the audience, and I 
understand that the DCM for Georgia is also planning to join so 
hopefully she will be able to make it soon, and recognize 
Senator Duckworth who was just in Romania, so thank you.
    Almost 2 years ago to the day, I chaired a subcommittee 
hearing on the Black Sea region. This critical region has 
always been an area of interest and I first became familiar 
with it when I traveled to Georgia in 2012. Georgia, of course, 
was the first target of Putin's revanchist policies in the 
region, but sadly not his last.
    The Black Sea region has been a critical area of focus for 
Vladimir Putin as he pursues his aggressive agenda and 
revisionist history. This map which, hopefully, you can see 
behind me shows precisely why this hearing and our efforts to 
focus on the Black Sea region are so important.
    In 2008, Putin annexed South Ossetia and Abkhazia because 
Georgia was moving toward democracy. In 2014, he illegally 
annexed Crimea when Ukrainians made their voices clear in 
support of EU membership and in 2022, Putin further invaded 
Ukraine when he realized that his bullying tactics would not 
work.
    The Black Sea is critical because Putin sees it in his 
orbit. Some refer to it as his lake. He sees it historically 
and strategically as an important part of his empire, but the 
Black Sea is also home to three NATO nations and two aspirant 
countries. For them the Black Sea is a critical economic 
connector and when Russia's behavior goes unchecked, it has 
implications for their security and for their economies.
    I saw this firsthand during a visit to Romania and Georgia 
earlier this year, and as the Ukrainian Ambassador Oksana 
Markarova shared with me, what happens in the Black Sea does 
not stay in the Black Sea.
    By weaponizing the export of Ukrainian grain through the 
Black Sea, Putin has already shown his willingness to bring the 
world to the brink of a global food security crisis.
    Russia's actions affect not only the countries bordering 
the Black Sea, but also dozens of countries in Africa such as 
Somalia and Kenya, and Asia and other parts of the world, 
places whose food security depends on Russia's actions.
    It has also caused extreme volatility in grain prices over 
the past year and a half, which creates increased costs and 
uncertainty for U.S. consumers and farmers.
    He has upended the global energy market, contributing to 
rising costs in Europe and here at home, and most concerning, 
Russian attack drones have crash landed in Romania and Moldova, 
risking further escalation in Europe given that Romania is a 
NATO ally.
    President Biden has sent Congress an assistance package 
that includes more than $60 billion for Ukraine. I hope we can 
get this done and get Ukraine what it needs. Supporting Ukraine 
is crucial to America's security and prosperity by ensuring 
Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine remains a strategic 
failure.
    This is critical not just for the sake of Ukraine or the 
sake of the Black Sea region, but for the sake of the United 
States and our allies.
    I am pleased that Assistant Secretary O'Brien has agreed to 
testify on the State Department's Black Sea strategy, which the 
Department is required to produce pursuant to report language 
that was included in the fiscal year 2023 spending bill, and I 
would like to submit the State Department's Black Sea security 
strategy for the record at this time without objection.
    Thank you. So entered.

[Editor's note.--The information referred to above can be found 
in the ``Additional Material Submitted for the Record'' section 
at the end of this hearing.]

    Senator Shaheen. Assistant Secretary O'Brien, I look 
forward to hearing how this strategy will be implemented and 
part of support of an action plan. However, before I turn to 
Ranking Member Ricketts I would like to make one additional 
point.
    I strongly believe that we need a comprehensive interagency 
strategy toward the region. That is why the Senate NDAA bill 
this year includes a provision requiring just that, a 
comprehensive interagency strategy for the Black Sea.
    I do not believe the State Department can do this alone. 
The Departments of Defense and Commerce among others also have 
critical roles to play in supporting our allies and partners in 
the region.
    With that, I will turn to Ranking Member Ricketts for his 
remarks.

               STATEMENT OF HON. PETE RICKETTS, 
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM NEBRASKA

    Senator Ricketts. Great. Thank you Madam Chair, and thank 
you, Assistant Secretary and fellow Nebraskan Jim O'Brien, for 
being here with us today.
    The Black Sea is becoming a gravitational center for 
Europe's future and is yet another important theater in the 
great power competition between Russia, us, and the People's 
Republic of China.
    Putin's illegal war in Ukraine has put a spotlight on the 
region as part of the front lines in this battle against 
Russia's aggression. Putin would like nothing better than to 
turn the Black Sea into a Russian lake and its airspace into a 
no-fly zone.
    Encouragingly, recent Ukrainian attacks in Crimea and on 
the port of Sevastopol have put Russia's vaunted Black Sea 
fleet into retreat and its maritime dominance into question, so 
much so that it is now looking to separatist friends in 
Abkhazia for a new naval base.
    Georgia must be unequivocal in its rejection of this 
Russian power play into its sovereign territory. While Russia 
continues to weaponize the world's food supply after the 
withdrawal from the Black Sea grain initiative, Ukraine has 
once again proven to be resilient.
    By turning the western Black Sea into a no-go area for 
Russian warships, Ukraine, with the help of the Black Sea NATO 
allies, has successfully established a humanitarian corridor to 
thwart Russia's de facto blockade.
    Despite these recent successes we cannot allow ourselves to 
be lulled into complacency. While Russia has failed in its 
goals on the battlefield, it has also shown its ability to 
adapt.
    As Russia looks to disrupt this corridor with mines, the 
U.S. must find ways to enhance the naval capabilities of our 
Romanian and Bulgarian friends to deter Russia's destructive 
tactics.
    Turkey as a valued NATO ally and the gatekeeper of the 
Black Sea will also continue to play a pivotal role in 
constraining Russia, but Turkey, after playing both sides 
throughout this conflict, must make a choice if it truly wants 
to play a productive role in the region.
    Ultimately, the Black Sea's future hinges on Russia's clear 
defeat in Ukraine and as Ukraine continues its long-term plan 
to push Russia out of Crimea, it should do so with unwavering 
American support.
    The Biden administration's recent decision to send ATACMS 
was a welcome reversal after 18 months of pointlessly depriving 
Ukraine of weapons it needs to be successful.
    However, by only sending the limited range variant I fear 
the Administration is only paying lip service to its critics 
and sending another message of weakness to Putin. While Russia 
represents the greatest threat to peace and stability in the 
Black Sea, we must also not lose focus on the PRC's desire to 
spread its tentacles into the region.
    That means ensuring that the PRC plays no role in post-war 
reconstruction for Ukraine. The PRC would use its presence to 
collect intelligence on Ukrainian and foreign supplied military 
capabilities as well as steal the intellectual property of 
strategic Ukrainian companies, and its track record of 
spreading corruption and undermining the rule of law would 
serve only to hinder Ukraine's Euro-Atlantic trajectory.
    This should be prevented at all costs. The PRC's no limit 
partnership with Russia is proof that its efforts will never be 
in the best interest of the region. Our Black Sea allies and 
partners should send a clear message to Beijing that its 
predatory lending practices and malign influence have no place 
in the Black Sea.
    For too long the Black Sea region, even after Russia's 
initial invasion of Ukraine and illegal annexation of Crimea in 
2014, has remained a low priority theater for the U.S. and 
NATO.
    Recent events proved this must change. Neither direct NATO 
nor EU--neither NATO nor the EU has a specific strategy 
directed toward the Black Sea. American leadership is needed 
here to get the ball rolling.
    Assistant Secretary O'Brien, I look forward to hearing from 
you on ways that we can better coordinate with our allies and 
partners in the region to deter Russian and PRC malign 
influence and aggression both in the short-term and the long-
term.
    Finally, I want to commend Senator Shaheen for her 
leadership on this issue and I am proud to support her Black 
Sea Security Act.
    Madam Chair.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you very much, Senator Ricketts, and 
thank you to our witness for participating in-person in front 
of the committee today.
    Jim O'Brien is the Assistant Secretary of State for Europe 
and Eurasian affairs, a position he began after being confirmed 
earlier this month, so I do not think you have quite been on 
the job a month yet.
    Mr. O'Brien formerly was a career State Department officer. 
He served two previous administrations as a special 
presidential envoy, and notably Mr. O'Brien was the first 
presidential envoy for hostage affairs from 2015 to 2017.
    He helped establish the office and worked for the safe 
return of a hundred American citizens. Over the course of his 
career at the State Department he has led a large and 
successful sanctions program, advised on a range of issues 
including peace negotiations in Europe, scientific and 
environmental agreements and initiatives to investigate and 
prosecute persons responsible for war crimes.
    With that, Mr. O'Brien, I will turn it over to you and, 
again, thank you for joining us today.

   STATEMENT OF THE HON. JAMES O'BRIEN, ASSISTANT SECRETARY, 
  EUROPEAN AND EURASIAN AFFAIRS, UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF 
                     STATE, WASHINGTON, DC

    Mr. O'Brien. Thank you, Madam Chair, Ranking Member. It is 
a privilege to be here so I am very pleased you asked me. Thank 
you for legislating that we had to put this strategy together 
and for engaging with our partners and for being as involved in 
pushing us to develop a strategic approach to the region.
    I have an excellent written statement that others wrote for 
me and so I will submit that for the record, and I want to try 
to talk through where we are at this moment because I think you 
and Senator Ricketts both captured where we are.
    In the last few years I have been fortunate to both in 
government and out of, I visited Batumi, Poti, Chornomorsk, 
Yuzhne, Pivdenne, Galati in Romania and the Sulina Canal that 
connects the Danube to the Black Sea, the port of Costanta.
    That is a lot of water for a guy from Nebraska, but it 
shows us how important the Black Sea is and that this strategy 
was developing momentum and moving to the center of our foreign 
policy. To our Bulgarian friends, I know I have to get to Varna 
and I have been to Istanbul as well.
    Now I want to talk about what our strategy is and how we 
will implement it and how it relates to the current moment. 
What we are seeking is a Black Sea that is secure, prosperous, 
democratic, and globally connected to markets around the world.
    All of that requires freedom of navigation. The threat to 
this, as Senator Ricketts said, is Russia. It is trying to cut 
off Ukrainian access to the Black Sea and that turns the Black 
Sea, it hopes, into a contest for domination against several 
NATO allies, trying to choke off critical trade routes for the 
South Caucasus, for Georgia, and for Central Asia.
    That is what is at stake here. What is our strategy? We can 
all read about it, and I am glad you are putting the strategy 
in the record so that everyone can.
    Five parts. We have strong diplomatic engagement. I have 
been in Romania, our great and good allies and partners, twice 
in the last several months to try to build up cooperation on 
the Black Sea.
    We have engaged strongly in Georgia as well as with the 
other states around the Black Sea. We have security cooperation 
as the second element, put in almost $370 million in FMF 
financing for security cooperation with Romania and Bulgaria.
    We have a brigade combat team in Romania and we are working 
together against Russia's current threats by building up the 
surveillance capacities in Romania as Russia bombs on the 
border, but also supporting efforts by Turkey, Bulgaria, and 
Romania to remove the scourge of mines that threaten the 
freedom of navigation. There are other elements in our 
strategy, but that is just an illustration.
    The third element is resilience through regional 
cooperation and here the story is just remarkable. We just a 
month ago announced $300 million in support through the Three 
Seas initiative and the heart of that is to build the 
cooperation along the shores of the Black Sea.
    Fifty million dollars for a terminal in Poti, which brings 
grain and other commodities from Central Asia. We are working 
on energy security. We have started to create routes for non-
Russian gas to Bulgaria, Romania, Ukraine, and Moldova.
    We are working on nuclear fuel as an option as well as 
renewable fuels such as offshore wind, and, Senator Duckworth, 
I know you just visited some of those elements. Finally, the 
strategy looks to democratic resilience as the foundation for 
what we are looking to do.
    Now, I will talk about measures for success in a moment, 
but above all, right now how do we measure success? It is 
through success in Ukraine.
    Ukraine is where Putin has decided to launch his war of 
global revision, and you just listen to him. He says what he 
wants is a return to the sphere of influence he had at the end 
of World War II. He starts by eliminating Ukraine and then by 
separating Ukraine's government from its global partners, its 
global markets, and from its own people.
    The supplemental request the Administration has sent 
addresses all the dimensions of Putin's offensive and makes it 
clear that we will stand with the Ukrainian people as long as 
it takes until they beat back Putin.
    For America you beat a bully before he gathers steam and 
that is what we are doing now, and it is a very good bargain 
because Ukrainians are paying the bulk of the cost, they are 
putting their lives on the line, and they have destroyed half 
of Putin's army. This is a good deal for America and it is 
important as we look to build for the future.
    Now, I will touch on a few of the elements in which the 
Black Sea particularly is critical to getting Ukraine up and 
running so that its economy can pay its own way going forward, 
and its people can thrive as they look toward a future as part 
of Europe.
    I will just close with a note. Thirty years ago as a young 
State Department lawyer, I spent a lot of time in both Russia 
and Ukraine. We were designing the assistance programs and we 
offered the countries a simple choice. Come be a normal 
country. Make some rules. Let your people be free and 
prosperous.
    In the last 10 years, we have seen Ukraine has made the 
choice that Ronald Reagan wanted when he said tear down the 
wall. This is about their freedom.
    Putin made the opposite choice and he says he wants to go 
back to a world where Moscow decides what people from Stefen to 
Trieste get to do with their futures. That is what is at stake 
here and the Black Sea is the forefront.
    Senator Ricketts, you had it exactly right. Ukraine has won 
an amazing naval victory that has opened the possibility of its 
economy returning. Did that without a navy, which is pretty 
amazing. We have to follow through on that with a strong 
approach in the Black Sea.
    Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. O'Brien follows:]

                Prepared Statement of Mr. James O'Brien

    Senator Shaheen, Ranking Member Ricketts, distinguished members of 
the Committee: Thank you for the invitation to speak with you today 
about the Administration's approach to the Black Sea region. I 
appreciate your leadership and engagement on this issue.
    The United States has long recognized the geostrategic importance 
of the Black Sea region. Not only does the Black Sea border three NATO 
Allies and several NATO partners, but it is also a vital corridor for 
the movement of goods--including Ukrainian grain and other products 
bound for world markets--and hosts significant untapped energy 
resources. The United States Government Black Sea Strategy, which the 
Department of State submitted to Congress in June, reflects our vision 
for the region and outlines our commitment to work with our allies and 
partners to increase cooperation. Our goal is a Black Sea region that 
is secure, prosperous, interconnected, and free from threats to 
territorial integrity and from economic coercion.
    Our strategy identifies five main areas where the United States can 
pursue that vision. First, we are committed to increasing our political 
and diplomatic engagement with the region--both bilaterally and in 
multilateral fora. To cite some recent examples, in September, I 
traveled to Romania to advance our efforts to ensure Ukrainian grain 
can continue to reach world markets. Secretary Blinken recently met in 
Washington with his Bulgarian counterpart to reaffirm our strong 
partnership. Special Presidential Envoy Kerry traveled to Bucharest in 
September for the Three Seas Initiative Ministerial meeting, where he 
met with PM Ciolacu of Romania. We will continue these engagements on a 
regular basis to demonstrate that the United States stands with our 
Black Sea partners.
    Second, we are strengthening our regional security cooperation by 
supporting a strong NATO presence in the region, investing in joint 
training and exercises, and ensuring our security assistance supports 
the region's defense modernization needs. We are also committed to 
defending freedom of navigation in the Black Sea. NATO has already 
shown great commitment to defending the territorial integrity of its 
members in the region by establishing four new multinational 
battlegroups in Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania, and Slovakia. The United 
States has provided FMF to Romania and Bulgaria in the last two fiscal 
years, established a new Brigade Combat Team in Romania, and more than 
tripled the number of U.S. troops there. We will continue to support a 
robust, visible NATO forward presence in the Black Sea region. All of 
this is in keeping with NATO's Strategic Concept updated at its Madrid 
Summit, in which it declared the Black Sea region's strategic 
importance for the Alliance.
    Russia demonstrated with its brutal war against Ukraine that it is 
the single greatest threat to a peaceful and secure Black Sea region. 
Not satisfied with unilaterally abandoning the Black Sea Grain 
Initiative--an effort designed to bring grain to some of the world's 
most food insecure nations--Russia has subsequently launched drone and 
missile attacks on Ukraine's maritime infrastructure, ports, and grain 
storage facilities. Russia has also threatened to target commercial 
vessels in the Black Sea. Russia's actions in the Black Sea are central 
to its efforts to destroy Ukraine's economy, displace Ukrainian grain 
with Russian exports, and otherwise terrorize the Ukrainian people. 
Russia's actions not only threaten Ukraine but impinge on the security 
of all littoral states, and on freedom of navigation in the Black Sea. 
However, we see the strategic momentum in the Black Sea beginning to 
shift in Ukraine's favor. We are working with Kyiv, as well as allies 
and partners, to capitalize on this opportunity by opening vital trade 
and shipping routes to thwart Putin's efforts to destroy Ukraine's 
economy.
    Third, we are supporting efforts to enhance regional economic 
cooperation to build resilience to Russian and PRC malign influence and 
promote a level playing field for business. This includes efforts to 
support strategic infrastructure investments, strengthen investment 
screening, and advocate for transparency in public procurement. We were 
proud to announce DFC's $300 million investment in the Three Seas 
Initiative Investment Fund in September, which will help build 
strategic infrastructure, and we are committed to coordinating with the 
EU, Romania, Moldova, and Ukraine to expand grain transit and ensure it 
reaches global markets. We will continue to rely on strong coordination 
with European partners, regional institutions like the Three Seas 
Initiative, and the private sector to achieve these goals.
    Fourth, we are promoting energy security and clean energy in the 
Black Sea region. Russia's war has made plain to all the importance of 
energy security, which requires diversification of sources, routes, and 
types of energy. We will increase our efforts to help diversify the 
region's suppliers, increase regional interconnections, and expand 
clean energy solutions like solar, wind, and conventional and small 
modular nuclear reactors in partnership with international financial 
institutions and the private sector. Next month, we will announce (?) 
Project Phoenix to increase the region's energy security. EXIM has 
announced more than $57 million to support feasibility studies for the 
expansion of Romania's existing nuclear power plant--a project that 
supports an estimated 200 new jobs in Texas and Illinois--and earlier 
this year, DFC and EXIM signed letters of interest totaling $4 billion 
to deploy a small modular reactor project in Romania. The supplemental 
funds requested last week will enable us to further this goal by 
helping Ukraine modernize its energy infrastructure and connect to 
Europe as quickly as possible.
    Fifth, we are working to foster democratic resilience, with a focus 
on combating corruption and countering disinformation. We are 
leveraging foreign assistance and raising the veil on the Kremlin's 
destabilizing efforts, including through the State Department's Global 
Engagement Center, to support freedom of the press, investigative 
journalism, and media literacy. We also use existing accountability 
tools to target corruption and its corrosive effects on democratic 
governments.
    Just last month, I was in Constanta, Romania's largest port city on 
the Black Sea coast. I was there alongside Romanian, Ukrainian, 
Moldovan, and European Union officials for technical meetings to 
reaffirm our commitment to accelerating Ukrainian grain exports. This 
was my second visit to Romania this year to discuss Black Sea grain 
exports, and I have been continually impressed by our partners' 
commitment to working together to find practical solutions to support 
Ukraine. This collaboration with our European partners in Constanta 
illustrates the region's resilience as well as what we can achieve 
through collective action. Our Black Sea strategy seeks to expand and 
build upon these opportunities for deepened regional cooperation.
    I'll close with a brief comment on the Black Sea and Ukraine's 
economy. President Zelensky has said the Ukrainian people will see a 
future if they see recovery. The Ukrainians are prioritizing efforts to 
expand revenue in the near-term, and opening the Black Sea ports is 
critical to this project. I was in Kyiv last week and can report that 
progress is underway. Ukraine recently established a humanitarian 
corridor that facilitates grain and steel shipments from its Black Sea 
ports. The route could be expanded with improved safety and insurance, 
and the supplemental funds requested by the Administration last week 
are essential to us helpingUkraine strengthen its Black Sea export 
infrastructure.Opening Ukraine's Black Sea routes can help unlock its 
broader economy and would advance our broader Black Sea Strategy.
    Thank you again for the opportunity to speak with you today. I look 
forward to your questions.

    Senator Shaheen. Well, thank you very much and let me just 
say we will go into a round of questions. I am hopeful that we 
can have several rounds, depending on time, and I would ask 
that people try and stick to the 5 minutes for each question 
session.
    Now, since you mentioned the navy and also Ukraine's work 
that has really had a significant impact in destroying some of 
Russia's navy, I want to start with that because in the 
strategy the State Department acknowledges that a visible U.S. 
and NATO naval presence in the Black Sea contributes to 
European and global security, and prior to the 2022 invasion of 
Ukraine, the United States and allied nations routinely 
conducted naval exercises and port calls in the Black Sea.
    These helped to secure freedom of navigation in this 
waterway. They provided a measure of deterrence against 
Russia's navy.
    The question is should we seek further U.S. or NATO 
military presence in the Black Sea and how do you envision that 
that might happen?
    Mr. O'Brien. Thank you for that, Madam Chair. This is a 
constant topic of discussion with our Turkish allies.
    Turkey controls access to the Black Sea for warships. It 
made the decision upon Russia's further invasion not to allow 
warships of Russia and other countries into the Black Sea as a 
way of reducing threats to shipping and that has been very 
important as a contribution to Ukraine's security.
    We talk constantly about whether the balance is correct and 
whether we have the right set of forces and the Turks look at 
this constantly. We will keep working at it.
    I will note two additional points. One is the importance of 
the local naval assets. Turkey, Bulgaria, and Romania are 
working together, I mentioned, on a demining program. They are 
also working to secure the safety of shipping in the 
territorial waters of their countries. That is very welcome and 
we support this in a variety of ways.
    The other thing is there are other assets that matter at 
sea. We have seen Ukraine drive off Russia's Black Sea fleet 
with use of drones and other new tactics. Much of what we are 
providing to Ukraine does go to providing real security in the 
Black Sea region, but we will keep looking at whether the mix 
we have is correct.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you. I appreciate that. You cannot--
sadly, the graphics are not big enough, I fear, but this map 
gives us some idea of the naval capacity that the countries 
bordering the Black Sea have, and as we can see Turkey and 
Russia are the only ones with submarines that are listed there 
and Ukraine, despite only having 13 ships, has been able to 
really undermine Russia's navy with five surface combatants, 32 
principal ships, and six submarines there that were in the 
Black Sea at Sevastopol. Really an impressive effort.
    You mentioned the anti-mining efforts and we heard that 
last week when Senator Ricketts and I met with the ambassadors 
from the Black Sea region, the importance of those anti-mining 
efforts, particularly given what the Russians have done in the 
Black Sea.
    Can you tell us what additional congressional authorization 
might be needed for that to move forward and how soon that is 
going to begin?
    Mr. O'Brien. I do not know what additional congressional 
authorization we need. I know we are providing support and then 
maybe through some of the FMF programs there will be some--I do 
not want to speculate. Let me get back to you in writing on 
this.
    I think the strong support for the programs is incredibly 
helpful, but I am not sure we need a specific action at the 
moment.
    Senator Shaheen. Okay, but funding--are we helping to 
provide some resources for the program?
    Mr. O'Brien. We have made some resources available. Whether 
they are going to that specific initiative or to some of the 
support initiatives such as identifying where the activity 
should take place and that kind of work I think we can give you 
a briefing on.
    Senator Shaheen. Great. Thank you.
    Senator Ricketts.
    Senator Ricketts. Great. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
    As we discussed, Russia was part of the Black Sea grain 
initiative up until July when they pulled out. Up until that 
point it delivered 33 million metric tons of grain and then 
since Russia has pulled out they attacked port facilities and 
ships, damaging civilian vessels.
    Three hundred thousand metric tons of grain was destroyed 
and, as the chair said, really using food as a weapon and 
threatening not just Ukraine, but other countries who rely on 
that food supply.
    However, as we also mentioned, Ukrainians have been very 
successful in driving off the Black Sea fleet out of Sevastopol 
and they have had to retreat to the eastern part of the Black 
Sea and that opened up that corridor, which now the Russians 
are trying to mine to be able to interfere with that.
    This humanitarian corridor have been opened and at one 
point, Secretary O'Brien, you suggested that the success of the 
corridor along with insurers raising their rates and Moscow's 
costs going up might change Russia's calculation on that Black 
Sea grain initiative.
    Do you believe that Russia is considering joining the 
Black--rejoining that and would it only be under lifting the 
sanctions that they have already demanded these--all these 
sanctions be lifted on? What is kind of your take on where 
Russia is standing right now?
    Mr. O'Brien. Yes, it is a great question. I will try to 
answer in two senses.
    First, I do not speculate on Russian intent. It is clear 
they will do what they can to demonstrate their dominance when 
they have it and I think what they have been surprised by since 
July, Ukraine has managed to continue its exports and has 
driven back Russian ability to restrict its exports.
    At the same time, the threat to Russian ships affects 
Russian prices so everybody's insurance rates went up. Big 
ships were reluctant to go to the Russian ports, which meant 
Russia had to buy its own ships to manage its shipping. All the 
costs went up.
    This has not been the great moment of victory that I think 
President Putin was briefed that it would be.
    They are now in a world of considering a different 
approach. Whether that leads them back to the Black Sea 
initiative or it leads them to simply say let us have an 
arrangement where all shipments of grain or all commercial 
shipping are off limits that is something they will have to 
calculate.
    There is a lot of diplomatic activity to try to get them to 
make such a commitment, but I think what they decide to say 
will be known only once they feel forced to take a position.
    Senator Ricketts. To that end then it is fair to say or 
would you agree that if we were able to keep that corridor 
open, for example, helping out with the demining efforts, that 
that would put more pressure on Russia to come to the table 
with regard to that Black Sea grain initiative?
    Mr. O'Brien. Yes. Absolutely, and that is what we are 
working on. There are actually three things we are working on 
with Ukraine and its partners: one, our land routes, some of 
which go into Poland, Slovakia, and Hungary and on to Italy. 
Those handle about--let us do this.
    Ukraine used to export about 6 million tons of grain a 
month and that was vitally important for world markets. They 
were 40, 50 percent of the World Food Programme grain every 
year. About one to one and a half million tons can go out 
through those normal routes. It is a bit expensive, but it is 
certainly possible and we will get that up and running again 
soon.
    The other land routes go down through Romania ultimately 
and so the meetings I have been in with Romania and Moldova are 
about opening up to nine border crossing points and building 
the infrastructure that will let grain flow down through land 
and ultimately into the deep sea ports in Costanta.
    The third route is along the coast and this is now showing 
real signs of success. It is allowing large ships to move and 
with that, Ukraine--we have made a commitment that by the end 
of this month we think Ukraine will be about 4 million tons of 
grain through those routes and I think it can go much higher 
soon. We will be almost back at pre-war levels. Then the 
challenge is getting the costs down and we are working on that 
as well.
    Senator Ricketts. Let me ask you another question along 
those lines as far as demining. If we were to loan or sell 
minesweepers, which are purely defensive, to Romania or 
Bulgaria, one of the vessels that was--hit a mine. One of the 
three cargo vessels was a Turkish flagged vessel off the coast 
of Romania. Perhaps Turkey would have an interest.
    Do you think they would still--Turkey would still use its 
Montreux authority to stop a--if we loaned or sold a 
minesweeper to Bulgaria or Romania, would they stop that from 
coming through the strait?
    Mr. O'Brien. I have raised that with Turkish officials. I 
think they would look at it very carefully. The restriction in 
Montreux I believe is only for combat vessels and, as you say, 
a minesweeper is arguably just a defensive item.
    I would say two things. They are testing how effective the 
local assets are at managing this issue and I am not sure that 
one ship actually hit a mine. I thought there was some question 
it was an engine problem. These are older ships very often.
    We would have a very strong discussion. Turkey has allowed 
NATO minesweepers into the Black Sea since the start of 
Russia's further invasion. There is some precedent that they 
would allow it if it--but I think they would decide based on 
the situation at the time. It is certainly a viable 
conversation to have.
    Senator Ricketts. Great. Thank you very much.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you, Senator Ricketts.
    Senator Duckworth.
    Senator Duckworth. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, 
Secretary O'Brien, for being here today.
    As noted previously, I did just return from an official 
visit to Romania where I had excellent conversations with our 
allies about our mutual support for Ukraine as well as our 
shared security priorities.
    During my discussions with Romanian parliamentarians and 
cabinet ministers, I was struck by the central role that 
Romania has played in countering Putin's aggression. While 
Romania does not publicize many of these specific actions, they 
are in fact an excellent, even indispensable partner.
    As one example, Romania is providing energy to its 
neighbors Ukraine and Moldova when necessary as well as buying 
power from Ukraine when available in order to bolster the 
Ukrainian economy.
    When I thanked Romanian leaders during my trip, they 
expressed steadfast resolve to maintain this essential service 
for their neighbors.
    Secretary O'Brien, can you elaborate on the portion of the 
Black Sea security strategy that covers promoting regional 
energy security and speak to additional opportunities to 
counter Putin's aggression in the energy sector?
    Mr. O'Brien. Yes. Thank you for your visit and especially 
for highlighting the role that Romania is playing.
    I have been there twice, as I said, and I think we could 
not ask for a better ally and partner. The willingness to stand 
up in support of Ukraine has been really a pillar of the global 
coalition fighting Russia. Romania has the deep sea port and 
the capacity to help Ukraine get its economy running very 
quickly and I will get back to your specific question, but just 
to note, I was in Ukraine last week with Secretary Pritzker, 
who is the President's envoy for economic recovery of Ukraine, 
and President Zelensky talked about how important it is for his 
people to see some sign of economic life returning.
    It is already happening. It is amazing, those of you who 
have visited Kyiv and some of the other major cities. If we are 
able to provide air defense, which we are asking for more help 
to do, and support for their electricity grid, their metals and 
grain industries will start to return to life very quickly and 
by one estimate, which we have to check, if they could double 
their exports through the Black Sea, it could provide an 
additional $25 billion or more to their GDP and about $5 
billion to $6 billion immediately in tax revenue for Ukraine.
    If we want a path by which Ukraine begins to pay for more 
of its costs itself, the way forward is through the 
supplemental request, but also through the Black Sea because 
that is how Ukraine's economy moves forward and Romania is a 
critical partner in having that happen.
    Now, to energy I would say there are a couple of parts to 
the strategy and we can do a deeper briefing at some point when 
you are back.
    One part is to make sure that the states have access to 
electricity, but also to gas from non-Russian sources. Here, 
Greece has been a critical partner. Bulgaria now is arranging 
to import I think it is a third this year and more next year of 
its gas from--through Greece into Bulgaria and they are working 
interconnectors back up into Moldova, Romania, and Ukraine as 
well.
    Romania has been providing equipment and support to Moldova 
as an energy provider. That kind of resilience is very 
important. The second pillar is to work and as--also gas from 
the South Caucasus and Caspian that will begin to flow.
    The other piece is to build local supplies of energy 
generation. Very often those are renewable sources. You saw we 
have given money for offshore wind power in Romania. We are 
also working on nuclear power--a small modular reactor in 
Romania.
    A British company is doing the same in Bulgaria. We are 
creating these alternatives and what is significant is that 
those replace generations-long entanglements with Rosatom, the 
Russian company that breeds corruption wherever it goes.
    The strategy is to provide local generation where we can 
and connectivity to bridge the gap, and we are putting money 
into both of them and we are starting to see double digit 
changes lowering dependence on Russia. I think that is one of 
the measures of success for me.
    Senator Duckworth. Thank you. When I was there I met with 
SNN, Romania's state nuclear authority, and had excellent, 
excellent meetings with them. My own home state in Illinois is 
a national leader on nuclear technology. I am running out of 
time, but perhaps you can----
    Mr. O'Brien. That is my fault. I apologize.
    Senator Duckworth. That is all right. Perhaps you can 
respond in a written format, if you could just discuss how the 
U.S. can build on current efforts to promote the development of 
SMRs to speed broader use of this technology responsibly----
    Mr. O'Brien. Yes.
    Senator Duckworth. --and in a way that leverages the 
expertise we have in states like mine, Illinois, and elsewhere 
in the U.S. and how can Congress help with that in partnership 
with a country like Romania that is really pioneering this 
effort?
    Mr. O'Brien. I know we have put, I think, $57 million into 
some feasibility studies on the energy sector including a bit 
of the SMR work and I know that is 200 jobs in Illinois and 
Texas. It is--we are directly supporting jobs in the U.S. that 
go to supporting energy independence in the Black Sea.
    Senator Duckworth. Thank you.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you, Senator Duckworth.
    Senator Barrasso.
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you very much, Madam Chairman. 
Thanks for being here and joining us today. We appreciate it.
    Just a couple of quick questions. In terms of the Black Sea 
maritime patrol, as you know, NATO created a very successful 
Baltic air policing mission to safeguard the integrity of the 
NATO alliance members' airspace. The mission could serve as a 
model, I think, for efforts to maintain a robust NATO presence 
in the Black Sea.
    What are your views on NATO establishing a Black Sea 
maritime patrol mission?
    Mr. O'Brien. We have a fairly robust presence that we are 
working in Romania particularly because Russia flies right 
along the border when it attacks the Ukrainian facilities, and 
I know we have beefed up that element.
    Something dedicated and called the maritime mission, it is 
an interesting idea and I have not thought about it. I would 
have to talk with my Pentagon colleagues and come up with an 
answer, but certainly the capability is a really important one.
    Senator Barrasso. That was the capacity and the capability, 
and then the commitment to do it as well. Thank you.
    Mr. O'Brien. Yes.
    Senator Barrasso. In terms of the Russia-Turkey gas hub, 
there has been discussion about a gas hub. Russia has indicated 
its strong interest in creating this gas hub in Turkey.
    There are reports that negotiations between Russia and 
Turkey are at a standstill due to disagreements regarding who 
should oversee it. Russia will use the hub as a workaround, I 
think, to sell to countries who are not willing to buy directly 
from them.
    It is also possible for Russia to use the hub as a means to 
mask exports that are sanctioned. Russia continues to find any 
way it can. What do you think the implications would be if this 
deal went through between Russia and Turkey?
    Mr. O'Brien. Well, I would say in both gas and nuclear 
power, we have been encouraging our Turkish partners to avoid 
long-term entanglements with Russia.
    They have been doing this for hundreds of years with Russia 
in different sectors and they are aware of the need to keep 
them close, but more than arm's length away.
    They think that they can negotiate an arrangement that will 
allow them control. I think we are skeptical of that and 
advising them to look to other places for their gas and, 
frankly, the nuclear power as well and we are taking what 
measures we can to make that more likely.
    Senator Barrasso. I want to just get next to NATO strategy. 
The security and stability of the Black Sea is critically 
important to the security interests of the United States as 
well as the security interest, certainly, in NATO.
    Earlier this month the NATO Parliamentary Assembly 
announced that they are set to adopt recommendations supporting 
strengthening defenses around the Black Sea.
    What are the elements that are essential to any NATO 
strategy to address the security in the Black Sea and what 
strategy should NATO use, do you think, to build some 
resilience to the malign influence in the region?
    Mr. O'Brien. Well, in our strategy we talk about--as the 
State Department we are talking about diplomatic strategy, 
building strong democracies, security cooperation to build up 
the local capabilities in this as well as resilience. Things 
like shared energy infrastructure that avoid the coercive power 
that Russia likes to use and then economic support so that they 
are more prosperous.
    Those are the kind of core elements. In terms of a military 
capability, you touched on it. You need to be on sea, maybe 
undersea, able to control the air and control from the 
coastline the ability to threaten naval assets and the port 
facilities that are important to commerce.
    Now, how we--what weapons array and who plays what role 
that will be something that NATO will dig in on.
    Senator Barrasso. Could you just talk a little bit about 
Russia's current military strengths and weaknesses in the Black 
Sea region and what the status is of their naval forces in the 
Black Sea?
    Mr. O'Brien. They have redeployed away from Crimea over 
toward their major port--the military side of the port. This 
reduces their ability to restrict others' seafaring activities 
and has been a really important change.
    There are indications that they are trying to mine or 
otherwise disrupt the shipping and that is something we are 
watching very carefully. It so far has been more by way of 
feint than reality, but we know they will try and they are 
using air assets to try to control or intimidate shippers, 
again, as a difficulty.
    That is why, again, in the supplemental we are looking for 
the way to build up air defense because that is the answer to 
Russia using aircraft to lay mines in the Black Sea.
    All of this works together as we try to build, going 
forward.
    Senator Barrasso. Senator Duckworth talked about her recent 
trip to Romania. I have been there in the military base a 
number of years ago. How can we continue to support 
modernization and interoperability of Romanians' armed forces?
    Mr. O'Brien. Yes. Well, as I mentioned, we have provided a 
substantial grant of foreign military financing so that the--
building more, as you say, interoperability. We have a combat 
brigade.
    I think we have--I will have to check the numbers--trebled 
the number of U.S. forces in Romania and they are a fantastic 
partner on the Black Sea region and, frankly, elsewhere as 
well. We will keep integrating as close as we can.
    Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you, Senator Barrasso.
    Senator Van Hollen.
    Senator Van Hollen. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair and 
welcome, Mr. Assistant Secretary.
    I know we have covered a lot of areas that I plan to focus 
on--the demining of the Black Sea, I think looking for 
alternative routes for Ukrainian wheat through Romania. I would 
like to turn to the issue of cybersecurity because I know that 
part of the Black Sea's security strategy involves addressing 
the malign cyber activities in the region.
    My state of Maryland is home to Cyber Command, DISA, and 
other agencies that are very focused on these challenges and so 
I just wanted to ask you what we are doing to try to help our 
friends in the area address cyber attacks from Russia.
    Mr. O'Brien. Yes. Senator, I will get you a written 
briefing in full about specifically the cyber activities.
    Certainly, Russia's attempt to control the information 
space are very damaging politically. As part of our program to 
support the democratic resilience of the seven states we are 
discussing today, we put a great deal of emphasis on countering 
the kind of, say, artificial efforts to influence the public 
sphere.
    On cybersecurity itself we work with each of our partners 
on hardening their systems. The critical infrastructure and the 
key government functions are protected from Russian attack. I 
think the specifics, frankly, I would rather give you in 
another forum.
    Senator Van Hollen. I appreciate that, but you can assure 
us that we are very engaged on that front?
    Mr. O'Brien. Yes. Yes.
    Senator Van Hollen. I would like to pick up on a question I 
think Senator Duckworth raised regarding diversifying energy 
supplies--gas supplies away from Russia. I think she mentioned 
Romania. President Sandu of Moldova just recently said that 
that was a priority of theirs.
    Could you address what we can do to help Moldova, but more 
broadly what we are doing in the aftermath of much of Europe 
waking up at the time of the Russian invasion to say, oh, my 
God, we just became over-dependent on Russian energy.
    Mr. O'Brien. This has been a remarkable defeat for Putin. 
He thought that the gas would give him the ability to control 
Europe's response to his further invasion of Ukraine, that 
either the prospect of cheap gas would induce people to allow 
him or the fear of losing all gas would cause them to cave and 
that has not happened.
    The result is he has lost his own most lucrative markets 
and it has turned a great deal of their long built-up gas 
infrastructure into a white elephant, some of it lying under 
the sea, but even above ground.
    The Ukrainians report that the last gas pipeline that is 
carrying some gas to Europe is carrying much less than half the 
contracted amounts and they think that number will go down.
    We are looking at a country that has sacrificed one of its 
main sources of income and a long-held dearly prized asset. How 
is that happening? We have seen all the states of Europe both 
take some serious economic pain to make the change. Germany 
says that its GDP suffered a fair bit from making the change, 
but they are buying a considerable amount of U.S. LNG and they 
are looking to other sources for gas and then to new sources of 
energy as well.
    That is also true of the states on the Black Sea. I 
mentioned earlier the Greek port of Alexandroupolis is a very 
important source of LNG. I think it is almost oversubscribed.
    Several Turkish ports have LNG terminals that are making 
capacity available so that gas can be provided to the States. I 
was with President Radev in Bulgaria last--states of the 
region. I was with President Radev when he was completing the 
deal that would allow Bulgaria to begin--I think by next year 
it will be two-thirds of their gas will be purchased from non-
Russian sources.
    That is quite a remarkable transition just for that one 
state, but especially when you are looking at an entire 
continent looking a different way for its gas supplies. This is 
moving very quickly and it will be very hard to turn it back 
the other way.
    Senator Van Hollen. I appreciate that and we have been 
following closely the impact of the oil price cap as well that 
was placed on Russia, which seems to have had some--a pretty 
significant bite, although, obviously, sale of energy and gas 
is still their primary source of revenue.
    That is a good news story you are painting and I agree the 
rate at which--the pace at which people have been trying to 
wean themselves off of Russian gas has been impressive. More 
work to do, but as you say it has happened relatively quickly. 
Thank you.
    Mr. O'Brien. Thank you, sir.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you, Senator Van Hollen.
    I think we have time for another round. Assuming that 
Senator Ricketts and I are both on board, let us do that.
    Most of our conversation has been around NATO and what NATO 
might do in the region, but a number of the Black Sea countries 
are also EU aspirants in different stages of that, of course, 
but how important is it, do you think, for the EU to think 
about how to include some of these states as they are looking 
at EU enlargement and why is that important for not just 
countries in the Black Sea region, but for other countries that 
are looking towards the West and the transatlantic alliance?
    Mr. O'Brien. Sometimes we do talk about this with a 
alphabet stew of organizations and I think this is pretty 
simple. The European Union is based on four freedoms: the right 
of people to move, move their goods, send capital, sell their 
services, and to do it not just in their neighborhood, but 
across the entire union.
    When a state says we want to join that, they are saying we 
want to be open just in the way that a U.S. state says, we are 
open for interstate commerce. That allows an incredible growth 
of prosperity and we see it in places like Romania, which I 
think the average income has close to doubled over recent years 
or up 70 percent. Do I have that right? Sorry. I am phoning a 
friend.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. O'Brien. We see that as an incredible allure, plus it 
brings with it guarantees that relate to the rule of law and 
freedom from autocratic government. That is what is at stake.
    Now, the other piece, what I care about as an American 
policymaker, is that I want our friends to keep getting 
stronger because we are facing a sort of global challenge here.
    China wants to set the rules of the global economy in the 
next century. Russia kind of wants to help out a bit, but China 
is 1.4 billion people. Having some economic difficulties, but 
it is very active in trying to shape the rules. If we are 
working with our friends, we are--depending how you count it, 
Europe is about 600 million people.
    We are almost 350 million people. Japan, Korea--all of a 
sudden, we are getting close to the same size and we are very 
wealthy societies. We are used to writing rules.
    That becomes a place where we are in very good position to 
control what happens as the rules get made for artificial 
intelligence, biomedical engineering, all the things that will 
drive productivity over the next couple generations.
    That is what is at stake. Ukraine is 35 million people, we 
will say, highly educated, very developed IT sectors. I am kind 
of jealous that they are going to join the European Union 
because that is a really strong addition to the team that wants 
to write the rules and live in an open society based on the 
rule of law. That is what we are fighting for now.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you. I agree and I hope that the EU 
is going to look at the opportunities and provide a real 
expedited path for some of the countries, recognizing that 
there are reforms that still have to be done.
    One of those countries that we have not talked much about 
yet is Georgia, and Georgia is really under a significant 
amount of pressure from Russia. They share a very long border 
with Russia.
    How are we working to secure--help secure Georgia's 
democracy? They have elections next year. What are we thinking 
about in terms of those elections?
    Mr. O'Brien. Thank you for your attention to Georgia. I 
think it is very important in part--Senator Ricketts, as you 
noted 20 percent of its territory is occupied by Russia and 
Russia now is making noises about trying to use that territory 
as a base for military projection. That is something we watch 
very closely.
    On Georgia, as you know well, 85, 90 percent of the 
Georgian people want to be a part of this rule-abiding 
community. They want to join the EU. They want to be very close 
to the U.S.
    The question is whether a small group of businesses and 
others who do have some political influence prefer being in a 
gray area sort of between Russia and the West.
    Our challenge is to point out to the people each time there 
is an inflection point when a decision must be made. We have 
put forward some sanctions and some requirements for reform. We 
are working completely in-line with our EU friends.
    The EU will make a decision about whether to grant Georgia 
the status of a candidate, which opens up access to funding and 
technical assistance. We have said that there are a set of 
measures Georgia must take in order to qualify for the 
candidacy and we are using--we do not make that decision, but 
we are using our tools to try to back that.
    We have a great new ambassador in Georgia and she is 
evaluating kind of what the best course is on elections because 
you have been a really stalwart activist, and as you know I 
spent years working with an organization that helps to organize 
democratic elections. Thank you for that.
    We are waiting for the initial report of the U.N. election 
preparation office that will tell us what the design of a long-
term observation mission has to be and then we will work with 
the Georgian authorities to be sure that that election is as 
free and fair as we can make it using our very excellent 
partners, both international organizations, but more 
importantly the Georgian people because I think we talk to some 
of the same activists and their point to us is, this is our 
country, we are not leaving, and it is going to be a democracy 
until we are done. I think our job is to help them have a good 
election.
    Senator Shaheen. I certainly agree. I have some other 
questions on Georgia, but let me turn it over to Senator 
Ricketts because my time is up.
    Senator Ricketts. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Turkey certainly has no interest in the Black Sea becoming 
a Russian lake and we have been getting mixed messages out of 
Turkey with regard to this Ukrainian war. On the one hand they 
provide critical weaponry to Ukraine, but then Turkish 
companies help avoid the sanctions by doing business with 
Russia.
    They support Ukraine entering NATO, yet they hold up 
Sweden's ascension into NATO until just very recently when it 
was put to their legislative branch. They, on the one hand, 
have helped keep Russian warships out of the Black Sea, but 
also are preventing our ships from going into--our warships 
from going into the Black Sea.
    Of course, they have got the opportunity here, depending on 
how this war works out, when the war ends to be maybe the 
preeminent naval force in the Black Sea. The Black Sea grain 
initiative was also one of the things that President Erdogan 
championed. That obviously came to an end when Russia pulled 
out.
    Where do you see the relationship between Russia and Turkey 
right now? How do you assess that relationship? What is 
President Erdogan thinking of how the Russians are behaving?
    Mr. O'Brien. This is a chapter in centuries of competition, 
cooperation, between Turkey and Russia for control of Crimea, 
control of the Black Sea, control of Istanbul itself and 
President Erdogan is very aware that what he does not want to 
do is be alone with Russia.
    His presence in the alliance and the close cooperation with 
us on any number of issues around Turkey's borders, but also 
through, say, the Western Balkans is vitally important to 
Turkey.
    That allows us to get a lot of work done with Turkey, but 
it is also clear that they do listen to us when we are 
concerned that they are tilting too far in a way that will make 
them vulnerable to Russian pressure.
    We talked about energy earlier and what we would like to 
see is them working with us to bring Sweden into NATO very 
quickly. We are working and hoping this vote will happen in the 
next week or two. That will leave only Hungary that has not 
ratified and we believe that will happen quickly as well.
    The alliance will be strengthened and Turkey will have 
restated its commitment to working with us on the problems 
around its neighborhood and we do have a very good working 
relationship. Does this answer----
    Senator Ricketts. Did Russia pull out of the--pulling out 
of the grain deal harm that relationship or did President 
Erdogan not really care that much?
    Mr. O'Brien. I think--no, I believe--again, I will not 
characterize President Erdogan's emotions. He made a very 
strong effort to encourage Russia to stay in and to return. He 
traveled to Sochi to see President Putin and I think met a 
really blunt ``no, that could not have been welcome.'' I will 
not state what he felt about it.
    I think for Turkey having--I never got back to my answer on 
what is success about our strategy. Well, one measure is 
increased freedom of navigation around the Black Sea--more 
trade, more ships, lower costs.
    That is the core of Turkey's commercial interest and, in 
fact, it is almost existential for that whole long Turkish 
coastline along the Black Sea.
    I suspect what he would want is an arrangement that ensures 
all of the commercial shipping in the Black Sea, that it can 
move at as low cost as possible and that is only possible if 
Russia backs off the threats that it has made to shipping 
around--in that northwestern quadrant.
    Senator Ricketts. That is a great segue to one of the other 
questions I was going to ask is there is reports that Russia 
has created this ghost fleet of cargo ships that are----
    Mr. O'Brien. Yes.
    Senator Ricketts. --moving between the Black Sea and its 
bases in Syria to transport military items.
    Have there been discussions with Turkey about trying to 
intervene in some way because these are carrying weapons that--
if it is true carrying weapons that potentially create more of 
a danger in the Black Sea? Any discussions on that with Turkey?
    Mr. O'Brien. Yes, and I am going to make this a wider 
discussion maybe for a second.
    We spoke earlier--Senator Van Hollen asked about the oil 
price cap. The normal way that we use sanctions to enforce 
things like a price cap or limitations on who is allowed to buy 
and sell a commodity like oil is through service providers, 
insurance companies, crew facilities, maritime registers, on 
down the list.
    What Russia has tried to do with--and Iran has tried to do 
the same is create what they call a ghost fleet. They bought up 
old ships and they try to run them without ever touching the 
places where we enforce sanctions.
    Now, what that means is you have this unregulated maritime 
presence. It is 500-odd ships that we are aware of and that is 
dangerous for shipping, it is dangerous for all counterparties, 
and it is dangerous for the ports where these ships go.
    We published--as a first step we thought it was important 
to begin establishing what the parameters for regulating these 
ships would be, so we published a maritime advisory just a 
couple of weeks ago and already that is affecting, we will say, 
due diligence and the commercial practices. We will see how far 
that goes.
    We need to follow that up with some teeth so that the 
people who are engaging in business with these ships realize 
that they are jeopardizing their access to the dollar, the 
euro, and to the commercial operations of the West.
    We have already designated some of the port facilities or 
operators who have provided services to some ships, whether it 
was exactly munitions or other things, and that message we 
believe is starting to change practices including at some ports 
along the--on the Black Sea, and will continue work in this 
vein, so you will see more done.
    It is not simply a small number of ships carrying a 
specific kind of cargo. It is a Russian effort to build a 
system that is outside any of the post World War II regulatory 
mechanisms and that is dangerous.
    It is also very costly for Russia, so it is eating into the 
money that Putin has to run his war, but we cannot allow that 
kind of system to go unchecked.
    Senator Ricketts. Great. Thank you.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you, Senator Ricketts.
    I have just a couple more questions, but while we are on 
Turkey, let me just point out that the Turkish ambassador came 
to the meeting we had last week and his comments were very 
helpful.
    I especially appreciate that they are now taking up the 
ratification of Sweden's accession to NATO, but I have to say 
and I was very disappointed to see President Erdogan's comments 
in support of Hamas after the violence in the Middle East.
    You do not need to comment on that. I just think it is 
important to point out that as we are looking at the civilized 
world versus terrorist groups and those who would base their 
operations on destruction as we are seeing with Putin in 
Ukraine, it is disappointing to see those kinds of comments.
    Mr. O'Brien. Thank you for both those comments, Senator.
    Senator Shaheen. To go back to Georgia, one of the issues 
that we heard the last time we were in Georgia was the Chinese 
effort to develop the port in Anaklia and that was concerning.
    Can you talk about how we plan to support Georgia as they 
are looking to remain resilient to Chinese efforts to develop 
that port and invest in other ways in the country?
    Mr. O'Brien. We have made clear that critical 
infrastructure should not belong to states that will steal or 
suborn the countries in which they operate and that includes 
port facilities like the one at Anaklia.
    There are two finalists, I believe, for this tender. The 
project is many years from completion. There is a joint 
Singaporean-Chinese consortium as well as a Western consortium.
    We have backed--and some of this was in my prior life so I 
hope I am allowed to speak to it--but the U.S. DFC has provided 
a very large loan to a facility in the Poti port that handles 
bulk cargo--I mentioned that earlier--and we are working to 
develop these other facilities in Georgia so that they are able 
to manage a great deal more traffic.
    Part of it is making sure that there is competition, but 
also that Anaklia is controlled by a firm that is open to 
working in accordance with the rule of law and will continue to 
insist on that.
    Senator Shaheen. One of the other things we heard that I 
thought was very positive is the effort for this new East-West 
energy corridor that would go under the Black Sea and provide 
an alternative for energy coming out of Central Asia into 
Europe.
    Can you talk about why this would be helpful? Also, one of 
the things we heard was the real interest on the part of the 
Georgian officials we met with and having a development finance 
office in Georgia.
    I know it is a new agency and they are still trying to 
decide where they are going to go, but the Black Sea region 
seems to me to be ripe for having that kind of DFC office. That 
would be really helpful in the long term.
    Mr. O'Brien. I will confine myself here to say that I think 
the DFC is incredibly valuable and I think its ability to be 
onsite helps identify and even create investment opportunities 
often rather than just sifting through the opportunities that 
make it to it, and where it chooses to locate permanently or 
not, it is not my decision, but I agree the Black Sea is 
incredibly exciting.
    Senator, you took down your map, but the states of Central 
Asia largely have been--no, that is okay--they have largely 
been dependent on routes that run through Russia or now through 
China. They want another way.
    That is for oil and gas. Oil currently runs through a 
Russian-based pipeline, but it is also for grain, fertilizers, 
and other items. Those have to come down to ports on the 
Caspian.
    One point where it will be helpful to have legislative 
support is these ports--it is the Caspian where a couple of the 
littoral states are Iran and Russia. We have to be very careful 
that we are not benefiting those states, but that we are 
creating opportunities for the other states and understanding 
the choices we are making will be very helpful.
    Once it crosses the Caspian it ends up in Azerbaijan, 
whatever the good is, and then the choice is either it goes to 
Georgia and across the Black Sea or it has to go through 
Armenia, so we need an agreement with those two states, and 
then to Turkey, so Turkey has to open its border with Armenia, 
and then out again to the Black Sea.
    Whatever path we take leads us to the Black Sea and that is 
why there is so much momentum behind the strategy that you have 
legislated to have us put in place.
    Senator Shaheen. Well, thank you. I agree. I think it makes 
a lot of sense to have--to recognize how important that is as 
we are doing the strategy.
    Just because I am out of time, but my final comment is to 
go back to Ukraine because in your opening remarks you talked 
about measuring success in the Black Sea by what happens in 
Ukraine.
    Can you talk about why funding for Ukraine in the 
supplemental is going to be so important?
    Mr. O'Brien. I would just say the measure of success we 
have touched on. I think there are certain stable measurements.
    I mentioned more freedom of navigation. I would say more 
states, part of the Black Sea trading region so bringing 
Central Asia along is a real marker, and then I think it is the 
democratic stability of the states around the Black Sea because 
that is the foundation for security, NATO membership, et 
cetera.
    Those things are there, but then the success of Ukraine. 
Why Ukraine? This is the freedom that at least my whole 
lifetime we wanted to see extend across Europe. Putin wants to 
eliminate Ukraine and move from there.
    His officials talk about the Baltics as a historical 
Russian place. They remind Poland that its territory used to at 
one point be part of Russia. They--and then they look at 
Bulgaria, parts of Turkey and other places as points that 
Russia has been striving to control for hundreds of years. He 
wants that influence. That is what he is fighting for.
    I look at Ukrainians, and when I was with President 
Zelensky last week--and he talks about his people. They are 
fighting and dying for this freedom. It is right for us to 
stand with them.
    We talk sometimes carelessly about burden sharing, but we 
are here with the greatest coalition the world has seen, at 
least since World War II, but I think maybe ever. It is more 
than 50 countries have supported Ukraine.
    In terms of pure money, about 45-50 percent more has gone 
to Ukraine from other countries than from the United States. We 
are there with a coalition. I think we are indispensable to 
shaping what it does and how it does it.
    We are building as part of that then a rule-abiding 
community that will stand for the next several generations. 
That is something I want to leave to my kids rather than just 
holding on to the remnants of a 1940s settlement. We have the 
chance to do that now and that is the moment--this is the 
moment to do it.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you.
    Senator Ricketts.
    Senator Ricketts. Great. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
    I want to return to Ukraine, as well. As China is part of 
the no-limits partnership with Russia, but they have also tried 
to position themselves to be a part of a peace settlement and 
then therefore be a part of the reconstruction of Ukraine.
    As I mentioned in my opening comments, having the People's 
Republic of China have influence on post-war Ukraine really 
goes against all of our interests. PRC companies owner operate 
terminals in nearly a hundred commercial ports around the world 
and then that creates a platform for the People's Liberation 
Army. It creates a platform for them to collect intelligence.
    This critical infrastructure they are involved in really 
puts us at a disadvantage in many areas. They already have a 
history with Ukraine before the war when in 2017 they upgraded 
Ukraine's port of Odessa and, of course, through this war 
countless Ukrainian port infrastructure facilities have been 
damaged by Russia and especially since we have seen this since 
the--they have pulled out from the grain initiative, and it is 
going to obviously be very costly to repair and rebuild 
Ukraine.
    What threats does PRC involvement in Ukrainian construction 
do you see and what does it pose to Black Sea security and our 
U.S. interests and what are we doing to really try to check 
that before it becomes an issue for us?
    Mr. O'Brien. I think it is a great question. Russia has not 
shown any favoritism to assets that were owned by the Chinese. 
The major facilities have been closed since the further 
invasion and damaged.
    The important point here is what is the future of Ukraine. 
It is for the people of Ukraine to decide and they have decided 
they want to be part of a Western community, and as a piece of 
that, our work with our European partners to discuss a way 
forward with regard to China has been incredibly important and 
we see, I would say, a convergence of views about the risks 
that are posed by China.
    As Ukraine decides, it is not about who it wants investing 
and holding what assets. It is not 2017 anymore. Ukraine will 
be emerging from this war with the opportunity to set in place 
ownership that will be compatible with the rules of a new 
European Union, one that is cognizant of the risks that China 
poses, one where we are in active conversation about the threat 
that is posed by having what often are usurious debt 
arrangements and kind of opaque and onerous ownership 
arrangements, control of data, et cetera.
    All these things will be a part of the decision-making and 
I feel pretty confident that we will be in place to have 
Ukraine firmly in a camp where we will be comfortable.
    Now, it will be their choice, but a major way that we shape 
that discussion with them is to, frankly, stay in the game from 
a financial standpoint. That is why we have asked for more than 
$60 billion to provide support so that Ukraine can get itself 
back on its feet, but back on its feet headed the direction we 
want and that is the way we address the threat from China.
    Senator Ricketts. Would you agree that if China were to get 
involved in the reconstruction that would be a problem for our 
anti-corruption efforts and bringing about Western institutions 
to develop fully in Ukraine?
    Mr. O'Brien. Yes.
    Senator Ricketts. What more can we as the United States do 
to really prevent that from happening? Then if we agree this is 
a really bad thing, is there more--you mentioned it is the 
Ukrainians' choice, which obviously that is true.
    What can we do? Obviously, continued investment. Is there 
anything else we can be doing to be able to prevent the PRC 
from taking a bigger role in post construction?
    Mr. O'Brien. You sound like you are hoping I will say 
something in particular, but I think the main thing is it is 
difficult to be----
    Senator Ricketts. No, I am looking for ideas actually.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. O'Brien. Oh, okay. No, I think it is hard to beat 
something with nothing and we are being--we are very clear with 
Ukraine, the primary message of last week's visit was it is 
time to complete the reform agenda so that Ukraine builds in 
the transparency that we want and avoids the kind of opaque 
arrangements that allow autocratic regimes to flourish.
    The commitments are very good. Ukraine has taken some 
remarkable steps. It has two active independent anti-corruption 
bodies that are investigating powerful political figures.
    It has one of the most robust civil societies focused on 
anti-corruption that I have ever seen and within the 
Administration there are many people deeply committed to seeing 
Ukraine build a modern, decentralized, open economic 
architecture.
    Working with them and then being able to provide the 
resources that let them succeed now so that they do not have to 
go grasping at straws.
    Senator Ricketts. Would you say then that just even the 
anti-corruption efforts we are doing right now that help create 
that open transparent society is actually a barrier to China 
coming in and doing these deals?
    Mr. O'Brien. Yes.
    Senator Ricketts. Because it is the opposite of what the 
People's Republic China want to see?
    Mr. O'Brien. Yes.
    Senator Ricketts. Great. Thank you.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you, Senator Ricketts. We are being 
summoned to go vote.
    I want to thank Assistant Secretary O'Brien again for your 
testimony today. Thank you for your partnership on this issue, 
Senator Ricketts, and for the information of everyone, the 
record will stay open for questions until close of business on 
Thursday.
    Mr. O'Brien. Thank you both very much.
    Senator Shaheen. At this time I close the hearing.
    [Whereupon, at 3:44 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
                              ----------                              


              Additional Material Submitted for the Record


              Responses of Mr. James O'Brien to Questions 
                  Submitted by Senator Jeanne Shaheen

    Question. It is positive that Turkiye, Romania and Bulgaria plan to 
work together on anti-mining efforts in the Black Sea. How does the 
Administration plan to support this effort, and what additional 
Congressional authorization or appropriations does State need to move 
forward?

    Answer. The United States strongly supports regional efforts to 
address the threat to commercial and naval traffic posed by mines in 
the Black Sea. We understand the trilateral anti-mine initiative is in 
the planning stage and that governments will share more information as 
those plans develop. While they have not requested international 
support, the United States has provided FMF to both Romania and 
Bulgaria to help backfill for donations they provided to Ukraine. 
Additional FMF for countries affected by the war in Ukraine, including 
Bulgaria and Romania, would advance our Allies' modernization efforts, 
increase their capacity to ensure security in the Black Sea region, and 
allow them to provide additional capabilities to help Ukraine win. NATO 
has also increased surveillance over the Black Sea, including with 
patrol aircraft and reconnaissance drones. These measures strengthen 
our Allies' response to threats, including maritime threats, in the 
Black Sea.
                                 ______
                                 

              Responses of Mr. James O'Brien to Questions 
                  Submitted by Senator Tammy Duckworth

    Question. Assistant Secretary O'Brien, can you discuss how the U.S. 
can build on current efforts to promote the development of SMRs to 
speed broader use of this technology responsibly and in a way that 
leverages the expertise we have in Illinois and elsewhere in the U.S.? 
How can Congress help?

    Answer. From his first day in office, President Biden made clear 
that addressing the climate crisis is at the center of U.S. foreign 
policy and that nuclear energy is a critical climate solution. 
Advancing civil nuclear cooperation is a national security priority and 
we have taken significant steps to help countries build their capacity 
and access financing through public-private partnerships, foreign 
assistance, and U.S. Government financing tools. The SMR project in 
Romania is a great example of public-private partnership, with 
contributions from private industry spurring letters of interest from 
the United States (EXIM and DFC) and other countries. The State 
Department was a major financial contributor to the Front-End 
Engineering and Design (FEED) study grants for U.S. reactor projects 
both in Poland and Romania. At the Three Seas Initiative Summit in 
Bucharest, Special Presidential Envoy for Climate John Kerry announced 
a new program to provide SMR advisory services to countries in Europe 
and Eurasia. We have also launched Project Phoenix, which supports 
coal-to-SMR conversions to accelerate the rapid and responsible clean 
energy transition in Europe. We are committed to working with our 
Allies and partners to leverage U.S. nuclear expertise to support 
energy security and the global clean energy transition.

    Question. In addition to strongly supporting NATO, I also believe 
that smart investments in time, troop presence, multi-lateral exercises 
and more in the European theater can yield results in allied capability 
and capacity that can ultimately free the U.S. to focus more in the 
Indo-Pacific.
    Secretary O'Brien, strengthening regional security cooperation is a 
core part of the Black Sea Strategy. This includes bolstering NATO's 
presence in the region, such as the increased force posture at MK 
Airbase in Romania. Can you discuss where you think the U.S. should 
focus its security cooperation efforts in the Black Sea region? What 
opportunities do you see with key allies and partners, and how are you 
working with DoD to pursue these opportunities?

    Answer. We seek a Black Sea open to commercial navigation and 
secure for the countries that depend on it. Since Russia's full-scale 
invasion of Ukraine, NATO and the United States have deployed more 
forces to the Black Sea region. The United States established a new 
Brigade Combat Team in Romania, nearly tripling the number of U.S. 
troops in country, and NATO established new multinational battlegroups 
in Bulgaria and Romania. We have provided additional FMF financing to 
help backfill and enable future donations to Ukraine and advance 
military modernization of likeminded Black Sea littoral states--
including over $430 million for Romania and Bulgaria. Three NATO 
Allies--Bulgaria, Romania, and Turkiye--have naval bases on the Black 
Sea and the United States continues to partner with these NATO 
countries on land and maritime exercises in the Black Sea region. In 
coordination with our DoD colleagues, we are enhancing our Allies' 
capacity to work together to improve maritime domain awareness and 
strengthen regional security.
    As I said in my testimony, the focus of our immediate efforts is 
ensuring Ukraine wins this war and emerges whole, free, and at peace. 
We will continue to focus our security cooperation efforts on 
strengthening the capabilities of our Allies and partners and 
encouraging all possible support for Ukraine.

                 State Department's Black Sea Security 
                      Strategy Report to Congress

                                Submitted by Senator Jeanne Shaheen
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


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