[Senate Hearing 118-478]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                        S. Hrg. 118-478

               COMMODITY PROGRAMS, CREDIT, AND CROP IN-
                SURANCE_PART 1: PRODUCER PERSPECTIVES 
                ON THE FARM SAFETY NET

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                            SUBCOMMITTEE ON
                COMMODITIES, RISK MANAGEMENT, AND TRADE

                                 OF THE

                       COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE,
                        NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                              May 2, 2023

                               __________

                       Printed for the use of the
           Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry
           
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]           


                  Available on http://www.govinfo.gov/
                  
                                __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
55-132 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2024                    
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------                   
                  
           COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY


                 DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan, Chairwoman
                 
SHERROD BROWN, Ohio                  JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota             MITCH McCONNELL, Kentucky
MICHAEL F. BENNET, Colorado          JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York      JONI ERNST, Iowa
TINA SMITH, Minnesota                CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois          ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas
CORY BOOKER, New Jersey              TOMMY TUBERVILLE, Alabama
BEN RAY LUJAN, New Mexico            MIKE BRAUN, Indiana
RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia             CHARLES GRASSLEY, Iowa
PETER WELCH, Vermont                 JOHN THUNE, South Dakota
JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania         DEB FISCHER, Nebraska

                 Erica Chabot, Majority Staff Director
                 Chu-Yuan Hwang, Majority Chief Counsel
                    Jessica L. Williams, Chief Clerk
               Fitzhugh Elder IV, Minority Staff Director
                 Jackie Barber, Minority Chief Counsel
                              
                              ----------                              

        Subcommittee on Commodities, Risk Management, and Trade

                   TINA SMITH, Minnesota, Chairwoman
KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York      CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois          MITCH McCONNELL, Kentucky
CORY BOOKER, New Jersey              JONI ERNST, Iowa
RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia             TOMMY TUBERVILLE, Alabama
JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania         CHARLES GRASSLEY, Iowa
                           
                           C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                          Tuesday, May 2, 2023

                                                                   Page

Hearing:

Commodity Programs, Credit, and Crop Insurance--Part 1: Producer 
  Perspectives on the Farm Safety Net............................     1

                              ----------                              

                    STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY SENATORS

Smith, Hon. Tina, U.S. Senator from the State Minnesota..........     1
Hyde-Smith, Hon. Cindy, U.S. Senator from the State of 
  Mississippi....................................................     3

                               WITNESSES
                                Panel I

Duvall, Zippy, President, American Farm Bureau Federation, 
  Washington, DC.................................................     5
Larew, Rob, President, National Farmers Union, Washington, DC....     6

                                Panel II

Ackerman, Greg, Past Chair of The Michigan Bean Commission; 
  Delegate to the U.S. Dry Bean Council, Vassar, MI..............    25
Carson, Kody, Past Chairman, National Sorghum Producers, Lubbock, 
  TX.............................................................    27
Cheyne, Brent, President, National Association of Wheat Growers, 
  Klamath Falls, OR..............................................    29
Gendebien, Blake, Vice Chair, Agri-Mark Family Dairy Farm Co-Op, 
  Ogdensburg, NY, Testifying on Behalf of The National Milk 
  Producers Federation...........................................    31
Hillman, Rich, Farmer, Hillman Farms, Carlisle, AR, Testifying on 
  Behalf of The USA Rice Federation..............................    32
Johnson, Patrick, Producer and Director, National Cotton Council, 
  Tunica, MS.....................................................    34
Ragland, Caleb, Secretary, American Soybean Association, 
  Magnolia, KY...................................................    35
Rockstad, Neil, Vice President, American Sugarbeet Growers 
  Association, Hendrum, MN.......................................    37
Thompson, Karla Baker, Vice President, J.E.T. Farms And Georgia 
  Integrity Farmers, Camilla, GA Testifying on Behalf of The U.S. 
  Peanut Federation..............................................    39
Wolle, Harold, First Vice President, National Corn Growers 
  Association, Madelia, MN.......................................    40
                              ----------                              

                                APPENDIX

Prepared Statements:
    Duvall, Zippy................................................    58
    Larew, Rob...................................................    65
    Ackerman, Greg...............................................    77
    Carson, Kody.................................................    80
    Cheyne, Brent................................................    86
    Gendebien, Blake.............................................    98
    Hillman, Rich................................................   103
    Johnson, Patrick.............................................   109
    Ragland, Caleb...............................................   119
    Rockstad, Neil...............................................   143
    Thompson, Karla Baker........................................   152
    Wolle, Harold................................................   165

Document(s) Submitted for the Record:
Booker, Hon. Cory:
    Farm Action Reference Prices, letter for Record..............   178

Question and Answer:
Duvall, Zippy:
    Written response to questions from Hon. John Boozman.........   182
    Written response to questions from Hon. Charles Grassley.....   182
    Written response to questions from Hon. John Thune...........   184
Larew, Rob:
    Written response to questions from Hon. John Fetterman.......   185
    Written response to questions from Hon. Charles Grassley.....   186
    Written response to questions from Hon. John Thune...........   188
Ackerman, Greg:
    Written response to questions from Hon. John Boozman.........   189
    Written response to questions from Hon. Charles Grassley.....   189
Carson, Kody:
    Written response to questions from Hon. John Boozman.........   193
    Written response to questions from Hon. Charles Grassley.....   194
Cheyne, Brent:
    Written response to questions from Hon. John Boozman.........   196
    Written response to questions from Hon. Charles Grassley.....   197
Gendebien, Blake:
    Written response to questions from Hon. John Boozman.........   200
    Written response to questions from Hon. Charles Grassley.....   200
Hillman, Rich:
    Written response to questions from Hon. John Boozman.........   202
    Written response to questions from Hon. Charles Grassley.....   203
Johnson, Patrick:
    Written response to questions from Hon. John Boozman.........   206
    Written response to questions from Hon. Charles Grassley.....   208
Ragland, Caleb:
    Written response to questions from Hon. John Boozman.........   211
    Written response to questions from Hon. Charles Grassley.....   212
Rockstad, Neil:
    Written response to questions from Hon. John Boozman.........   215
    Written response to questions from Hon. Charles Grassley.....   216
Thompson, Karla Baker:
    Written response to questions from Hon. John Boozman.........   218
    Written response to questions from Hon. Charles Grassley.....   219
Wolle, Harold:
    Written response to questions from Hon. John Boozman.........   221
    Written response to questions from Hon. Charles Grassley.....   222

 
   COMMODITY PROGRAMS, CREDIT, AND CROP INSURANCE--PART 1: PRODUCER 
                  PERSPECTIVES ON THE FARM SAFETY NET

                              ----------                              


                          Tuesday, May 2, 2023

                                        U.S. Senate
    Subcommittee on Commodities, Risk Management, and Trade
         Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 9 a.m., in 
room 106, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Tina Smith, 
Chairwoman of the Subcommittee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Smith [presiding], Stabenow, Gillibrand, 
Booker, Warnock, Fetterman, Hyde-Smith, Boozman, Ernst, 
Tuberville, and Grassley.
    Also present: Senators Klobuchar, Welch, Hoeven, Thune, and 
Fischer.

 STATEMENT OF HON. TINA SMITH, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF 
                           MINNESOTA

    Senator Smith. Good morning. The Subcommittee on 
Commodities, Risk Management, and Trade will come to order. 
Welcome to all of our witnesses, and Senator Hyde-Smith, thank 
you so much to you and your staff for working together with us 
to organize this hearing today.
    Chair Stabenow, and I believe Ranking Member Boozman, will 
be with us shortly. I want to thank them for joining us, and 
many thanks to the full Committee staff for all of your help 
and support with this hearing and thank you to everyone for 
attending.
    This morning is going to be a two-part hearing. Today we 
will focus on Title I of the farm bill, the commodities title, 
and on Thursday we will take on Title X, the credit title, and 
Title XI, the crop insurance title.
    In February, the full Committee, the full Senate Ag 
Congress, heard from USDA officials on their views about 
commodity risk management and credit, and today we have the 
opportunity to hear directly from farmers and producers and 
stakeholder groups that work with farm safety net programs 
every day. Hearing from you is extremely important. As the 
people closest to the work, you know best what is working and 
what can be improved.
    We are especially grateful that you took time to be here 
with us at such a busy time of the year. In Minnesota, the 
weather is just starting to warm up and the fields are just 
starting to dry out. My colleague, Senator Klobuchar, is here, 
so we hear that it is actually spring in many parts of the 
country, and we are looking forward to welcome that to 
Minnesota as well.
    I know that all members of this Committee share the goal of 
passing a bipartisan farm bill reauthorization, a bill that 
meets the needs of American farmers, ranchers, and producers in 
every part of the country, and a bill that meets the moment. 
Farmers, ranchers, dairy farmers, poultry and livestock 
producers are at the center of our economy, our food system, 
and our national security, and there is nothing more important 
to our country than a stable, secure, healthy food supply. That 
means that we need stable, secure producers that have the tools 
that you need to weather the inevitable ups and downs of 
agriculture.
    My old friend, Dave Fredrickson, a farmer from Murdoch, 
Minnesota, former Minnesota Ag Commissioner and former head of 
the Minnesota Farmers Union, once told me that farmers are the 
most optimistic people in the world, and also, he added, the 
most in touch with the potential disaster lurking around the 
corner. You have to be. That is where these farm safety net 
programs come in. They are the tools to help farmers weather 
the inevitable ups and downs that will always be a part of your 
life and your life's work.
    Today, although commodity prices are good, the ag sector 
faces many challenges. Today too many producers are struggling 
to cover their operating costs, and this is especially true for 
small and medium-sized farms. According to the USDA, 50 percent 
of farms have negative farm income. The high level of 
concentration in the ag sector, combined with supply chain 
disruptions has driven up input costs, which are now outpacing 
commodity prices and putting farmers, especially small farmers, 
in a real bind. Climate change and extreme weather events are 
an increasing risk for farmers as they deal with droughts and 
floods, wind and hail, and increased pests. Global disruption, 
both wars and trade disputes, add to the uncertainty.
    Farmers are incredibly creative and adaptable. You are 
implementing smart climate practices. You are upgrading your 
infrastructure to improve resilience. You are developing new 
markets and deploying new technology. You need farm safety net 
programs that work for you, to help mitigate losses and even 
out those inevitable ups and downs.
    In Minnesota, in 2022, almost 40,000 producers participate 
in the Agriculture Risk Coverage (ARC) and the Price Loss 
Coverage (PLC) programs. Minnesota dairy farmers relied on the 
Dairy Margin Coverage Program (DMC), and Minnesota sugarbeet 
farmers depended on the Sugar Program. Thanks to this 
incredible public-private partnership, Minnesota's 67,000 farms 
and ranches created more than $16 billion in value, and every 
member of this Committee would have a similar story to tell 
about their own States--of challenges, yes, but also innovation 
and opportunity.
    Over the last year, my staff and I have held dozens of farm 
bill listening sessions around Minnesota, and what we have 
learned is that for many producers the farm safety net is 
working. It is definitely helping. We have also heard that 
there are gaps. Not all risk management and safety net programs 
are working for smaller operations, and especially crop 
farmers, especially produce farmers. Some programs are a little 
hard to use sometimes, and a tweak here or there could really 
help. Farmers of color, and Indigenous farmers in particular, 
struggle to find a safety net that works for them.
    That is what today's hearing is all about. It is an 
opportunity for this Subcommittee to hear directly from you 
about what is working, what is not working, and what needs to 
be improved.
    Now there are a few issues that I am particularly looking 
forward to hearing about. I am very interested in hearing from 
all of you in both panels, what are your top one or two 
priorities for farm bill safety net programs? What can we do to 
make these programs work for small and beginning farmers and 
nontraditional producers? How should the USDA support you? I 
hear constantly about staffing shortages at local FSA offices, 
and so I would like to hear about your experiences and what you 
think that we should do.How does the consolidation in 
agriculture, from everything from seed and fertilizer to 
processing, affect the risks that you face as you run your 
operations?
    I look forward very much to hearing from all of today's 
witnesses about these issues and more, and I look forward to a 
very productive discussion.
    Now I turn to Senator Hyde-Smith.

STATEMENT OF HON. CINDY HYDE-SMITH, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE 
                         OF MISSISSIPPI

    Senator Hyde-Smith. Good morning, and thank you, Chairwoman 
Smith and fellow Committee members, and I thank all of you for 
being here today and the witnesses for being willing to testify 
and serve. This is truly appreciated.
    As the Ranking Member of the Commodities, Risk Management, 
and Trade Subcommittee I am pleased that we are holding this 
producer prospective on the farm safety net hearing. It is an 
honor to serve on this Committee, and since its work is so 
critical to America's hard-working farmers. I am also grateful 
for Chairwoman Stabenow and Ranking Member Boozman's commitment 
to these issues as well.
    Today we have the privilege to hear from general farming 
organizations and a wide array of producers who will provide 
insight into the challenges facing producers in Mississippi as 
well as across the country. As we discuss the farm safety net, 
it is critical that we hear from producers directly to better 
understand their unique perspective and their needs. Their 
views can help us ensure that our policies and programs are 
responsive and effective. I look forward to a productive 
discussion.
    As we all know, American agriculture is subject to a wide 
range of challenges and uncertainties, from unpredictable 
weather patterns to volatile market conditions to evolving 
trade policies and regulations. These challenges can have a 
significant impact on the viability of the American farmers, 
many of which operate on thin profit margins. This is why the 
farm safety net authorized in Titles I and XI of the farm bill 
is so critical. This Committee must get this right in the 2023 
Farm Bill. There is no room for error.
    The farm safety net is the backbone of our Nation's 
agricultural policy. It provides protection for producers who 
may face unforeseen losses and setbacks that are beyond our 
control. The farm safety net helps protect the long-term 
viability of our rural communities, whose foundation is 
agriculture. I want young Mississippians to view returning home 
to take care of the family farm as a possibility and an 
attractive option.
    Congress has the opportunity to help make this a reality by 
strengthening the farm safety net programs. When I visit with 
Mississippi producers, I always tell them, ``Your priorities 
are my priorities.'' Mississippi is home to many large and 
small farm families. As my friend, Ranking Member Boozman says, 
``This farm bill will not neglect the small nor punish the 
large.''
    Time after time, I hear from producers that the current 
safety net is inadequate, especially for seed cotton and rice. 
Statutory references price for the agricultural risk coverage, 
the ARC and the PLC Programs were calculated in the 2014 Farm 
Bill using data from 2012, more than a decade ago. We know that 
a lot has changed since then.
    The existing references prices do not reflect recent global 
events that have disrupted the American agriculture industry, 
including the China trade wars, the COVID pandemic, and the war 
in Ukraine. Increasing input costs, many of which are thanks to 
President Biden's war on American energy, have also contributed 
to the inadequacies of our reference prices.
    By listening to our producers and understanding their 
experiences and challenges, we can identify these areas where 
the safety net can be strengthened or improved to ensure that 
it remains effective and efficient in supporting our 
agricultural producers. This approach will help to ensure that 
our policies and programs are responsive and effective and 
ultimately support the long-term sustainability and prosperity 
of our Nation's agriculture industry, which I think is all of 
our goals.
    In this hearing I will look forward to having the 
opportunity to hear directly from Mr. Johnson of Mississippi, 
and our other guests to gain insights into the challenges and 
opportunities facing producers across the country. We will also 
explore ways to improve and strengthen the safety net to ensure 
that it is responsive to the needs of everyone.
    President Eisenhower once said, ``Farming looks mighty easy 
when your plow is a pencil, and you are 1,000 miles away from 
the cornfield.'' That is why this farm bill will be developed 
for producers, by producers. This hearing is critical as we 
continue to engage with farmers to understand their unique 
perspectives and needs and ensure that the safety net is 
tailored to meet those needs.
    I look forward to today's discussion. Thank you, Chairwoman 
Smith, and I yield back the remainder of my time.
    Senator Smith. Thank you so much, and welcome, Chair 
Stabenow. We are very glad to have you with us this morning.
    We are now going to begin our first panel. We have two 
witnesses on our first panel. President of the American Farm 
Bureau Federation, Zippy Duvall. Mr. Duvall, I know that 
Senator Warnock was hoping to come and introduce you, but he is 
not here yet, so I am going to plow forward.
    Zippy Duvall has served as President of the American Farm 
Bureau Federation since 2016. He is a third-generation farmer 
from Georgia. He and his son operate a beef cow herd, raise 
broiler chickens, and grow their own hay, all while continuing 
to restore the farmland that has been in the family for more 
than 90 years.
    Welcome to the Committee.
    I would also like to welcome President of the National 
Farmers Union, Rob Larew. Rob is President of the national 
Farmers Union, and prior to joining the National Farmers Union 
he worked for over 22 years in Congress in developing 
agriculture policy. Rob worked for both Representative Collin 
Peterson from Minnesota and the late Senator Paul Wellstone, 
whose seat I now hold. As President of the National Farmers 
Union, Rob is a national advocate on behalf of farmers and 
ranchers.
    President Duvall and President Larew, you will each have 
five minutes for your opening statement. You have a clock in 
front of you, I think. Your full written statement will be made 
part of the record.
    President Duvall, you are recognized for your opening 
statement.

  STATEMENT OF ZIPPY DUVALL, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN FARM BUREAU 
                  FEDERATION, WASHINGTON, D.C.

    Mr. Duvall. Thank you so much, Chairwoman Smith and Ranking 
Member Hyde-Smith. We really relish the opportunity to come and 
speak to you.
    One of the things you did not say in my bio is I spent 30 
years dairying in Georgia, as a child, and then 30 years as an 
adult, so I have a long history of continuing to farm there in 
Georgia.
    We want to thank you all for your work that you do for our 
farmers and ranchers across our country each and every day, and 
in your opening comments was almost ditto to my comments. You 
are right on target with what you are hearing across your 
region and the country.
    As I have said before, a country that cannot feed itself 
and its people is not secure, so a strong farm policy that 
supports a strong food supply truly is part of a smart national 
security strategy.
    USDA's most recent Farm Sector Income Forecast sees a 
decrease in net farm income in 2023 of 18 percent, when 
adjusted to inflation. The same report estimates farm and ranch 
production expenses, that you mentioned, Chairwoman, will 
continue to increase by $18 billion. This follows a record 
increase of $70 billion in 2022.
    The short-and long-term interest rates that are high and 
rising have doubled and tripled, in some cases, in the last few 
years. High interest rates, caused by both high inflation and 
the Fed's step to address inflation, led to the farm debt 
crisis in the 1980's. We need to make sure that the doubling 
and tripling of interest rates does not cause those similar 
pressures on our farms and ranches because we already have some 
mental health issue across the farm because of the stresses 
they are going through.
    Along with the challenges there are enormous opportunities 
in American agriculture. Innovation and research are helping us 
do more with less. Our advances in sustainability nothing short 
of very impressive. In order to seize the opportunities and 
continue the advancements we need strong farm policy. Much 
uncertainty remains related to the ability for farmers and 
ranchers to access affordable supplies and to manage volatile 
markets, and deal with the regulation and weather-related 
challenges.
    Our growers need to have access to comprehensive risk 
management options such as those in the commodity title of the 
farm bill through crop insurance. In particular, we need to see 
improvements in Title I that take into account the current 
challenges facing production agriculture.
    Farm Bureau supports the following principles to guide the 
development of the programs in the next farm bill: increasing 
the baseline funding commitments to farm programs. We already 
talked about the cost of production, and it needs to reflect 
what it costs us to produce these products.
    To maintain a unified bill that includes nutrition programs 
and farm programs together. Really and truly, the farm bill 
should be named the Food and Farm Bill.
    We need to prioritize funding for risk management tools, 
which include both crop insurance and Title I commodity 
programs.
    Of course, there are important investments throughout the 
farm bill, investments in critical research to fuel the 
incredible innovation that has helped farmers and ranchers do 
more with less. Investments in voluntary incentive-based 
conservation programs that have helped farmers achieve 
impressive sustainability gains and investments to ensure that 
those facing hunger have access to nutritious food that our 
farmers are dedicated to producing in more and more worthy 
programs in the farm bill.
    The 2023 Farm Bill presents an important opportunity for 
you, the lawmakers of our great country, to rise above 
partisanship. We urge you to work together, and again, to pass 
the legislation that protects food security and all Americans 
and ensure the future success of farmers and ranchers that will 
also keep our national security intact.
    Thank you for holding this hearing today. I look forward to 
the questions.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Duvall can be found on page 
58 in the appendix.]

    Senator Smith. Thank you very much, President Duvall.
    We now turn to President Larew.

  STATEMENT OF ROB LAREW, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL FARMERS UNION, 
                        WASHINGTON, D.C.

    Mr. Larew. Thank you so much, Chair Smith, Ranking Member 
Hyde-Smith, and members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for the 
invitation to testify.
    National Farmers Union is the second-largest general farm 
organization, and we advocate for the economic prosperity of 
family farmers, ranchers, and their communities through 
education, cooperation, and legislation. We can all work 
together to ensure that the next farm bill is as strong as it 
can be through sound crop insurance and commodity programs. I 
also want to emphasize the importance of diversified income 
streams and opportunities as well as the need for fair and 
competitive markets.
    It has been an eventful five years since the 2018 Farm Bill 
became law. We have seen a trade dispute with China, 
increasingly frequent and severe weather disasters, rapid 
shifts in supply and demand from the pandemic, and Russia's 
invasion of Ukraine. USDA predicts, as Mr. Duvall mentioned, a 
21 percent decline in net farm income in 2023. Farmers and 
ranchers, on average, currently receive only 14.3 cents of 
every dollar that consumers spend on food. The farm safety net 
is being tested in new and unprecedented ways, and we are 
learning many lessons on how to be prepared for the next five 
years.
    With that in mind, Farmers Union members have identified 
the following priorities. We need a well-funded, permanent 
disaster program to protect against losses from market 
disruptions and extreme weather. Reference prices and loan 
rates should be increased to offset higher costs of production. 
Additional crop insurance options should be made accessible to 
specialty crop producers and those with diversified farms.
    We support farmers voluntarily removing marginal or 
sensitive land from production on an annual basis in exchange 
for crop insurance protections. We support a dual enrollment 
option for ARC/PLC to safeguard against dramatic losses. We 
support a voluntary update of base acres and want to find ways 
to issue advance payments from ARC/PLC.
    The Dairy Revitalization Plan should be enacted to better 
serve family dairy farmers and stabilize milk prices. We 
strongly support the Farm and Ranch Stress Assistance Network 
and want to make sure it receives additional resources. We also 
strongly support farm bill efforts that benefit beginning 
farmer, veteran, and socially disadvantaged farmers and 
ranchers.
    Farm bill investments in conservation, climate, renewable 
energy, and infrastructure can also help ensure the vitality of 
our communities. We seek tools and assistance to make our farms 
more resilient in the face of changing climate. We want to 
continue to be a part of the solution with practices that are 
voluntary, incentive-based, and rooted in science.
    That is why we have partnered with Farm Bureau, the 
National Council of Farmer Co-Ops, the Environmental Defense 
Fund, and dozens of other organizations to form the Food and 
Agriculture Climate Alliance. FACA issued policy 
recommendations to Congress for the farm bill, and with our 
input USDA is implementing the Partnerships for Climate-Smart 
Commodities initiative. This project will create new market 
opportunities for family farmers and ranchers through climate-
focused programs, and we are excited to see the effort get 
underway this year.
    The financial viability of our farms is dependent on a fair 
market, so any conversation about the farm safety net should 
also address competition. We must create fair and more 
competitive markets in order to drive innovation, increase 
choice, and decrease input costs and boost prices for crops and 
livestock.
    In this spirit, NFU launched the Fairness for Farmers 
campaign to shed light on the devastating impact that 
monopolies and near-monopolies have on family farmers, 
ranchers, and our communities. That is why we are calling for a 
competition title in the farm bill, to improve transparency and 
price discovery in cattle markets, strengthen the Packers and 
Stockyards Act, reinstatement mandatory country-of-origin 
labeling, and underscore the effects of consolidation in the 
food supply chain. By building fair and competitive markets we 
address the root causes of financial instability for family 
farmers.
    Finally, we know that farm bill coalition gets stronger by 
bringing in allies and supporters, and that a farm bill 
coalition becomes weaker when it is divided. I want to 
reiterate our willingness to work with other farmers and 
ranchers, with our rural and urban neighbors, and with groups 
who want to ensure that the farm bill includes strong policy 
not only on the farm safety net but also for nutrition, energy, 
forestry, research, and more.
    I look forward to working with you to address these issues, 
and thank you once again for the opportunity to testify.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Larew can be found on page 
65 in the appendix.]

    Senator Smith. Thank you very much to both of you. We will 
now begin a round five-minute questions from members of the 
Subcommittee. Let me start by asking both of you, folks on this 
panel and on the Senate Ag Committee understand that the farm 
bill touches nearly every part of life in America. As we have 
all said, it is essential to our national security and to the 
health and vitality of producers everywhere in the country.
    Understanding that this is not exactly a fair question, I 
am going to ask it anyway, if each of you could just briefly 
talk about, just highlight the maybe two priorities that you 
think this Subcommittee should keep in our minds as we move 
toward reauthorizing the farm bill in 2023.
    Mr. Duvall. I would have to say, as I travel, and I travel 
a lot--I spend half my time here and half my time on the road, 
speaking to our grassroots, and then on the weekends on the 
farm, trying to catch up--but the first things you hear about 
is we have got to make sure that crop insurance stays intact, 
and we need to broaden it for those specialty crops that do not 
have opportunity to use it.
    The second thing is they talk about the cost of inputs, and 
the Title I reference prices do not match up with the cost of 
that production. It is really not a true safety net.
    We do not like to use the word ``safety net.'' It assures 
our American people that they are going to have their pantries 
available, food to fill their pantries, at a reasonable cost, 
and that is what the farm bill does for us. It assures that our 
farmers can survive any disaster and get to the next year, and 
that is why those updates need to be made.
    Senator Smith. Thank you.
    Mr. Larew. I predict that you are going to hear some themes 
that are common among a lot of the groups represented here. 
Certainly crop insurance is something that is always mentioned 
as front and center, to make sure that it remains very strong, 
but to build on the strength of that private and public 
partnership and make it more available to perhaps specialty 
crop growers who face very different markets, maybe much 
thinner markets, and different marketing arrangements, looking 
for ways to grow the success of those risk management tools to 
a number of different diversified types of farms.
    Beyond that, the rest of the safety net in Title I does 
need to reflect the changing conditions out there. We need to 
make sure that whether it is the reference prices in there or 
other triggers that reflect today's circumstance, we need to 
make sure that that is accommodated as well.
    More broadly it is making sure that the farm bill 
recognizes the dramatic shifts and changes and challenges that 
we have had over the last five years and how to build more 
resilience in that, whether that is also looking at permanent 
disaster, et cetera.
    Senator Smith. Thank you very much. A related question. We 
know that the average age of farmers in this country is going 
up, not down. In Minnesota I think it is about 60 years. Now I 
am 65, so I am not----
    I am very interested in hearing from both of you, as we 
think about risk management strategies and the particular 
challenges that beginning farmers, veteran farmers, socially 
disadvantaged farmers have as they are getting into agriculture 
and wanting to stay there, what particularly should we have in 
our minds for risk management, crop insurance, and other 
programs to support them. Mr. Larew?
    Mr. Larew. First I would say certainly efforts that are 
currently in place to help beginning farmers and those who are 
traditionally, historically underserved need to be maintained 
and even strengthened.
    I think it goes beyond even the risk management tools that 
we have. We need to make sure that we are developing markets 
and that we are developing a marketplace that creates that 
future for beginning farmers. There are a lot of new, potential 
opportunities, and USDA is currently looking at building out 
local and regional markets. I think that in addition to making 
sure that we have risk management tools that meet the needs of 
these emerging farmers and that next generation, that at the 
same time that we are creating a marketplace that creates 
option and potential and competition for their future.
    Senator Smith. President Duvall.
    Mr. Duvall. Yes. I would say the biggest challenge young 
people have getting into agriculture is availability of land 
and availability of credit. Of course, those risk management 
tools are going to be a part of the piece of their business 
plan, to be able to get the credit, to be able to get into 
business and plant a crop. Making those programs more available 
to young people, beginning farmers, socially underserved 
farmers would be a huge help.
    Young people ask me all the time, ``Where do I start?'' and 
``What programs are in USDA that I can take advantage of?'' A 
lot of those programs, like the microloans that young people 
start with are capped, and they are capped at a level that none 
of us could get in agriculture with, or even make enough money 
with that investment to be able to justify doing that.
    At the end of the day, we have brilliant young people, from 
all backgrounds, coming out of our land grant colleges and 
colleges all across this country, that want to be in 
agriculture, but the financial sustainability of farming is not 
there. Why would they want to come back to the farm and not 
know that they would be able to provide a living their family? 
We have got to find some way to make sure that we can draw 
young people back to this industry, because you are exactly 
right. I am 67, so I am over the age of the average farmer, and 
I am very blessed to have a son and another young man working 
with me. They have to have other jobs to be able to work with 
me.
    Senator Smith. Thank you. Thanks so much.
    Senator Hyde-Smith.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Mr. Duvall, you and I know that the 
farm bill commodity and crop insurance programs have a 
significant return on investment, and they do keep our food 
supply abundant and affordable. Please tell us more about why 
any proposal to decrease farm safety net resources are 
misguided and would not result in saving taxpayer dollars in 
the long run.
    Mr. Duvall. Well, if you take those programs away it brings 
more uncertainty to the markets. Those programs, we have 
already mentioned that it is a public-private investment in 
agriculture, which keeps food at a more reasonable cost to all 
the consumers across the country, and it also keeps farmers 
opportunity to continue to farm after major disasters or 
drought, whatever it might be they may be faced with.
    For the interest of the whole country and all the consumers 
and national security and everything, we need to make sure that 
we have a farm bill that supports not only farmers but also the 
people that are in a part of their life where they need a hand 
up and a helping hand through the nutrition programs.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you. Mr. Larew, as your testimony 
indicates, you have an interest in preserving the long-term 
viability of rural America, and I do too. Please expand on how 
Congress should strengthen Title I and Title XI farm bill 
programs to help preserve the long-term viability for rural 
America.
    Mr. Larew. Absolutely. I appreciate the question because it 
is really at the heart of what a farm bill hopefully can 
accomplish in rural America. This farm safety net, as has 
already been mentioned, is really as much as anything centered 
around providing reliability and certainty in the face of 
really uncertain times--when we have trade wars, when we have 
weather events--and farmers are used to trying to weather a lot 
of those kind of market-and weather-related challenges. We need 
a safety net in place to be that reliable underpin to make sure 
that those farms cannot just farm this year but have the 
opportunity to put a crop in the ground the next year and stay 
on that land. That keeps, as everyone on this Committee 
probably appreciates, that kind of effort also feeds into the 
local communities, into the local schools, it makes our small 
communities much more viable in the long run.
    Whatever we can do to build on those successes in Title I, 
making sure that we update the price triggers, the reference 
prices, making sure that we broaden and strengthen and grow on 
the success of crop insurance, I think we will go a long way 
toward providing that certainty.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. You also note in your testimony that 
the latest farm income projections predict a 20.7 percent 
decline in net farm income for 2023, when compared to 2022. 
What should this mean for how this Committee crafts Titles I 
and XI of the farm bill?
    Mr. Larew. We cannot go backward. We have to go forwards, 
and we have to build a bill that is reflective of the current 
conditions and for the next five years. In that sense we need 
to strengthen.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
    Senator Smith. Thank you so much, Senator Hyde-Smith. Now I 
will turn to the Chair of the Ag Committee. We are so glad to 
have Senator Stabenow here and also welcome, Senator Boozman. 
Thanks for coming to our Subcommittee.
    Senator Stabenow, you have the floor. As the Chair of the 
Committee, I think that you should feel free to take the time 
that you need.
    Senator Stabenow. Thank you. That is dangerous.
    Senator Smith. The same courtesy will be offered to Senator 
Boozman, to be fair.
    Senator Stabenow. Thank you very much, and I am so glad, 
Chairwoman Smith, that you are chairing this Subcommittee and 
that you have a partner in Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you so 
much to both of you for your leadership, and, of course, my 
partner right next to you there, Senator Boozman, good morning. 
Good to see you.
    I do appreciate a moment to just share a few thoughts and 
then ask a couple of questions to my good friends. It is good 
to see you, Mr. Duvall and Mr. Larew. Always good to see you, 
and to everyone that is here today.
    Let me just state the obvious. Farmers and ranchers across 
the country have experienced a lot of difficult challenges in 
the last few years, that is for sure, from the trade wars and 
the pandemic to the droughts, to the floods, disasters because 
of climate. I mean, everything has been coming at our farmers 
and ranchers, and rural communities.
    As we have talked about in other hearings, there has been 
about $90 billion in ad hoc spending to respond to a variety of 
events, in addition to the farm bill, as we look at this. A lot 
of this emergency deficit spending, which weighs in on what you 
are even talking about, even though we are not saying it, in 
terms of resources or support that has been there.
    I also want to say, though, that at this moment in the 
discussions, literally right now here, I have serious concerns 
about the potential of default that is hanging over our heads, 
for all of us who care about this farm bill and agriculture. 
Because I was here in 2011, first chairing the Agriculture 
Committee, when there were calls to cut spending in exchange 
for avoiding default, and ultimately that ended up in across-
the-board cuts to a variety of mandatory programs, including 
ARC and PLC, which continues today, and will continue for 
another eight years, regardless of the current debate, a 5.7 
percent cut every year, right now.
    I worry about the folks who have never done a farm bill. We 
have 240 people, between the House and the Senate--most in the 
House, as we know--who have never written a farm bill, never 
voted on a farm bill, who do not understand what this means to 
rural America and agriculture.
    In fact, one of the ways to get more assistance to farmers 
would be to repeal that 5.7 percent yearly cut, which I would 
be happy to do. I would be very happy to do.
    I know that all of you are calling for additional 
resources. We want to do the best we can. We know the 
importance of addressing the challenges. Ranking Member 
Boozman, earlier this spring, asked the Budget Committee for 
budget flexibility so we can adequately address the needs of 
our producers. If we do not have additional funding in the 
baseline we are going to need to focus on our top priorities, 
and need your best thinking on how we do this together, to be 
able to target this.
    This leads me to my first question, which is crop 
insurance, of which I am a strong supporter. Both of you have 
talked about this. It is a core part of risk management, and 
crop insurance has worked incredibly well for many producers to 
respond to weather disasters, declines in revenue, new products 
and options, and so on, we need to develop to make sure that 
that continues.
    I wonder if you each might speak more specifically. You 
have talked about specialty crops, which, of course, is near 
and dear to my heart in Michigan. I am glad we were able to get 
coverage for specialty crops, but I know there is more that 
needs to be done. I wonder if each of you would respond just to 
more specific enhancements you would suggest in crop insurance, 
in general or in specialty crops. Any additional thoughts on 
that. Mr. Duvall?
    Mr. Duvall. Well, of course the first thing at hand is to 
make sure that it is funded correctly, and we also need to make 
sure that we protect it to make sure that it does not dilute it 
down to where it is not effective to everyone. To make it 
better is to be able to make it easier for people to use. If 
you talked about specialty crop people, I hear a lot of 
specialty crop farmers say, ``You know, it is just too 
difficult for me. I do not really understand it.'' Smaller 
farmers, ``I do not really understand how to participate in 
those programs.'' The difficulty, especially in small and 
medium-sized farms, is a challenge to them.
    You know, a lot of people look at American Farm Bureau. We 
have got six million members across the country, and they look 
at us as representing the large farmer, which is absolutely not 
true. We surveyed our national committees, our voting 
delegates, and actually, the majority of the people that 
participate in our organization are small and medium-sized 
farmers. We hear what I just told you all the time, that it is 
difficult, hard to take advantage of, and sometimes cost 
prohibitive, depending on what commodity they grow.
    Senator Stabenow. Thank you. Mr. Larew?
    Mr. Larew. Yes, a couple of things. No. 1, making sure that 
we are taking full advantage of the 508(h) provision there to 
be creative, whether that is tying in climate-smart ag 
practices, looking at ways to incentivize some of those kinds 
of practices. I think also looking at some of the programs that 
Congress has put in place such as Whole Farm Revenue, intended 
to try to address some of that diversified, multi-crop farm 
risk management, and yet has struggled to really gain a lot of 
traction out there because of certainly a perception that the 
paperwork and the kind of cumbersome process of having that 
coverage is ultimately not worth the effort in many farmers' 
possibilities.
    Then for specialty crops, the challenges are immense, 
right? For some of these crops that are so thinly traded, or 
are traded with direct contracts, how do we find ways to either 
better market existing products that folks may not even be 
aware of, and then certainly encourage the development of 
additional products out there?
    I would also just underscore all of this with making sure 
that, first and foremost, we are not weakening that private-
public partnership.
    Senator Stabenow. Thank you. One more question. We know 
that the commodity title is essential. Crop insurance is 
essential. We also know other parts of the farm bill are 
incredibly important for our growers. We need all of it to make 
this happen.
    Since we have both of you, even though we are talking about 
commodities and crop insurance I want to just ask each of you, 
as national leaders, more broadly when we look at all the 
components, whether it is research or infrastructure, 
developing diversified income streams through exports or the 
bioeconomy, I wonder if you might just speak about how all of 
this fits together. Because it is all important, right? I mean, 
we have got to make sure we have got all the pieces there. 
Farmers want markets. You want to sell. At the same time, we 
want to create more options, whether it is through more climate 
practices, whether it is through the bioeconomy. All of this is 
what will make our producers successful.
    Mr. Larew, would you just speak more broadly, because I 
assume it is all of it together.
    Mr. Larew. Yes, absolutely. Farm bill coalitions are broad 
and attract a broad range of support, for very good reasons, 
because the farm bill is this tremendous asset to the entire 
U.S. economy, whether it is even supporting hunger programs and 
SNAP, which as farmers we recognize also create markets for us 
and are also helping to feed our neighbors and even family 
farmers when needed.
    We also want to make sure that--I referenced competition-
related items--making sure that the markets that farmers do 
have access to are truly fair and competitive out there, 
building out local and regional market opportunities so that 
there are diversified income streams there. You mentioned the 
bioeconomy, looking at ways to incentivize, whether through 
energy programs or elsewhere in the farm bill, ways to 
encourage adaptation of new systems but also ways to generate 
income from those efforts.
    I think, broadly, it is about building out market space in 
addition to a farm safety net, and creating opportunities for 
farmers in the future.
    Senator Stabenow. Thank you. Mr. Duvall?
    Mr. Duvall. Two of the other areas that I harp on a lot is 
research and development dollars. We are being outspent by 
other countries, especially China, 3 to 1 in research and 
development dollars, the statistics tell me, and research and 
development is what keeps us on the cutting edge, it keeps us 
more competitive across the world, it keeps us more 
sustainable, it makes us more friendly to the environment, and 
it makes our businesses more efficient in having that new 
research coming down the pipe.
    The other area is conservation and climate discussion. For 
years, as I farm, the list of people is long of people waiting 
to get funded for EQIP and many other programs that are offered 
through conservation programs. Proper funding--and I understand 
the funding that was recently added to that, and farmers very 
much appreciate that.
    What people do not really realize is if this market is 
voluntary and science-based, farmers will step up and take 
advantage of it and do all the right things because it is a 
partnership. To the tune of 140 million acres across America, 
farmers have stepped up in conservation programs. They will 
continue to do that in conservation and in climate as long as 
it is voluntary market based.
    Those are two areas that we need to focus on so that those 
research and development projects also blend in to climate and 
conservation. You are exactly right--it all works together to 
make for a secure food system for our country.
    Senator Stabenow. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Senator Smith. Thank you, Senator Stabenow.
    We now turn to Senator Boozman. Welcome, Senator Boozman.
    Senator Boozman. Thank you, Senator Smith, and Senator 
Hyde-Smith, for holding this very, very important hearing.
    I have had the opportunity to go around the country and 
visit with folks, as has the Chairwoman, and again, I want to 
compliment you all. I hear from your members. You all are very, 
very well represented throughout the United States and always 
bring so much to whatever gathering we have, whatever listening 
session. Again, you do a very, very good job, so we appreciate 
that.
    Mr. Duvall, you mentioned Congress must protect agriculture 
and production practices from undue burden and respect farmers' 
ability to innovate and solve problems. Can you talk more about 
the current farm safety net programs, how they afford producers 
this flexibility, and any proposals that you have heard that 
would jeopardize this?
    Mr. Duvall. Risk management tools, just like us protecting 
our homes and our cars and our lives with insurance policies, 
and our farmers go to those risk management products to be able 
to protect their farm for enough revenue to be able to get to 
the next crop in the wake of a disaster, whatever that disaster 
might look like.
    It is absolutely crucial because we see the difficulty of 
people trying to get into agriculture. It is availability, 
land, and credit. It takes a lot of money to become a farmer 
and stay in business a long time. It is necessary to have those 
risk management tools there, to make sure.
    The threat is what might be tied to that, required of a 
farmer to be able to take advantage of those programs. Those 
are real threats. We need not dilute the program. We need to 
make it better, not more challenging. We need to make it 
easier, not more challenging.
    For example, we should never take and say to a farmer, 
``You have got to do this to be able to get crop insurance.'' 
Crop insurance is a tool, and it is a risk management tool, and 
it protects that crop and that farm. It should not be limited 
by other factors that might be attached to it.
    Senator Boozman. No, we appreciate that, and I agree. To 
me, the farm bill, you know, one of the underlying themes, if 
maybe not the underlying theme for the agriculture part are the 
risk management tools, especially now in the very difficult 
times that we are in regarding input costs, high interest 
rates--the lists just go on and on. The uncertainty, even with 
our banking community now, as things get tighter there.
    I was going to ask you that, you and Mr. Duvall, about 
tying using specific climate or conservation practices in order 
to access the various risk management tools, what impact would 
that have on these programs for farmers?
    The other thing that I have learned in traveling across the 
country is how different not only regions of the country are 
but regions of farms. It cannot be a one-size-fits-all.
    The other concern that I have, and this is something that 
we can do that would not cost money--it would save money and 
make us much more effective--is the paperwork and all that you 
have to go through in order to participate. Mr. Larew?
    Mr. Larew. Yes, no, you are absolutely right. I mean, with 
this kind of diversity of not only type of farm, commodities 
grown, but then you add on top of that parts of the country and 
the climate conditions, you know, that is something that we 
cannot just put blanket requirements over.
    One of the aspects of the Food and Agriculture Climate 
Alliance that I am particularly proud of is the fact that all 
of the recommendations that FACA made were with the impediment 
that they be voluntary, incentive-based, market-driven, and 
also based on very sound science. That is why, as part of those 
FACA recommendations related to risk management, making sure 
that we study fully the impact that climate-smart practices 
have on things like crop insurance so that decisions made to 
either incentivize or to better manage risk on our operations 
are based on the best available data and information. Then 
also, as I mentioned earlier, encouraging the use of the 508(h) 
authority within crop insurance to also kind of look at those 
potential opportunities.
    Also in risk management we want to make sure that the RMA 
is not putting restrictions in place that limit farmers from 
adopting climate practices that will also help better manage. I 
think in a little way it goes both and forth, but very good 
points about not tying the hands of farmers.
    Senator Boozman. Good. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Senator Smith. Thank you, Senator Boozman.
    We now turn to Senator Booker.
    Senator Booker. Thank you, Madam Chairman and the Ranker as 
well, thank you both.
    There is a lot of talk today about strengthening the Title 
I safety net for commodity crop growers, but we really have a 
crisis with specialty crop folks. There is really no such 
program for them. A lot of beginning farmers really do not have 
an option and do not have any Federal safety net at all.
    In the farm bill, we should be moving toward trying to 
create a comparable safety net instead of incentives for 
specialty crops. This is nutritionally what we say the majority 
of our diet should be made up of.
    Mr. Larew, can you please speak to me about the gaps in the 
safety net for specialty crop farmers and what Congress can do 
to provide more support for specialty crop farmers.
    Mr. Larew. I appreciate the question because it really does 
go to the heart of one of the things that Farmers Union is 
pushing and that is making sure that we are building on the 
success, as you made mention, of the risk management tools that 
are currently there for many farmers, but we do have many 
farmers who cannot access those, for a variety of reasons. Some 
of the tools that I referenced earlier, whether it is Whole-
Farm Revenue coverage and so forth, which was intended to try 
to capture some of that more diversified farming, specialty 
crop growers who maybe brought in a range of different crops. 
Unfortunately, it is not working, and we are not providing the 
right incentives.
    Looking for additional ways and flexibility, which may 
require more direct input from RMA, if products are either not 
being market properly and folks are not taking advantage of 
them or may not know about them, or otherwise are an impediment 
because the premiums are too costly.
    I think that there are a number of ways there, but it 
should be at the heart of what we work toward in this farm 
bill, is to build out that opportunity for diversified farms 
and specialty crop growers.
    Senator Booker. Thanks, Mr. Larew. I also want to thank you 
and folks from the NFU for their support of the OFF Act. I am 
leading it Senator Mike Lee, which would reform our Federal 
checkoff programs. You know this, that farmers are required to 
pay into these checkoff programs, but ultimately too often they 
see their own dollars being used in ways that really could hurt 
them.
    I just want to ask you a yes-or-no question. Do you agree 
that it is important for Congress to include this checkoff 
reform in the farm bill?
    Mr. Larew. Very simply, yes. I would also just add that, 
you know, we see a lot of success and a lot of good work being 
done by checkoffs, and that is great, and we need to build on 
that success. We also need to make sure, in any checkoff, that 
farmers are center in that, and that is where I think there has 
been a disconnect. Farmers Union, for a very long time, has 
sought to improve checkoffs, and I think that there is lots of 
room to do that, and we are happy to support.
    Senator Booker. I really appreciate that, and transparency 
as well.
    Mr. Larew, finally, there has been a lot of focus on 
Capitol Hill about the foreign ownership of farmland, which I 
think is concerning. I also want to talk about what, in some 
ways, in the immediate now, is a bigger threat, which is the 
corporate ownership of farmland, the buying up of our farms by 
big Wall Street hedge funds and pension funds.
    Do you agree that this is a problem, and can you please 
talk about the harm that this large-scale purchasing of 
farmland by corporate investors is causing?
    Mr. Larew. Oh, I think any time that farmland is out of 
control of farmers we are headed in a very wrong path. Anything 
that we can be doing to disincentive that and keep farmers 
farming the land.
    I would also add that in addition to corporate ownership, 
or even foreign corporate ownership of land, that you also have 
a growing trend, in some cases, where food companies and others 
further down the chain acquiring land, renting it out to 
farmers to then basically be a contract grower for that 
particular land, using certain practices. This is a trend that, 
again, takes farmers out of the center of farming, and Farmers 
Union will be fighting that every step of the way.
    Senator Booker. Yes. I mean, I have been stunned. I have 
traveled from North Carolina to Alabama to the Midwest and then 
across New Jersey, and some of the greatest Americans, 
inspiring folk, who have been on land for generations, the math 
is not working for them anymore because of these new kinds of 
corporate ownerships, who often benefit from some of these 
programs in ways that are intended to help farmers out. This, 
to me, is a crisis in our country and one of the reasons why 
farmers are getting less and less in terms of the percentage of 
the consumer dollars.
    Finding ways to recenter farmers and farm families that 
have been on these farms for so long has got to be the key 
spirit of the work that we do on the farm bill. Would you 
agree?
    Mr. Larew. Absolutely. It is one of the reasons why we are 
pushing for our competition title, to make sure that fair and 
competitive markets are there, because that is another piece of 
this. When farmers have fair and competitive markets it allows 
them to stay on the land much more easily and be able to be 
farming into the future.
    Senator Booker. Thank you very much. Thank you.
    Senator Smith. Thank you, Senator Booker. Senator Ernst.
    Senator Ernst. Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair and Ranking 
Member, and thanks to all of our witnesses for being here today 
and for your testimony.
    While I travel across Iowa I visit all 99 counties every 
single year in Iowa, and as I am out on that county tour, and 
we have done a number of farm bill roundtables with various 
stakeholders, our farmers, our ranchers, and what I am hearing 
is that those farmers are really excited about the future. They 
are consistently sharing with me about new science, technology, 
innovations, and that is all great. They also tell me about the 
challenges and uncertainty that farmers are facing with supply 
chain disruptions. There is a lot of high input costs and 
market volatility.
    It is clear, and they mention this over and over again, 
that risk management is their top priority for those farmers, 
and we must continue to strengthen our farm safety net.
    During the last farm bill I introduced legislation to 
improve the ARC County Program, and we were successful in 
passing several enhancements, including the use of crop 
insurance yield data instead of NASS and making payments for 
the physical location of the farm.
    Mr. Duvall, we will start with you. How has ARC functioned 
with those changes in place, and what suggestions do you and 
your Farm Bureau members have to improve on that program?
    Mr. Duvall. To ditto what you said, it is a very important 
piece of the risk management tool that our farmers use, and I 
have not found very many complaints on how it is operating. I 
think our last farm bill has operated very well. We took a 
change in how we developed the programs, and I think it has 
worked very well.
    Senator Ernst. Good. I appreciate that feedback because we 
always want to make sure that if there is room for improvement 
we are improving those programs, and we are glad that what we 
were able to work on in the last farm bill is proving 
successful.
    Mr. Duvall, there are a lot of disasters that we see 
happening across the United States that is impacting a lot of 
our farmers and ranchers. In Iowa, for example, we had a 
derecho just a couple of years ago that destroyed many Iowa 
farms.
    Can you explain your farmer members' experience with the 
current ARC maximum payment rate and how it has limited 
assistance?
    Mr. Duvall. I am not sure I can speak to that.
    Senator Ernst. Okay. Do you have any thoughts on that, Mr. 
Larew?
    Mr. Larew. I think that those maximums in there very simply 
just limit the ability that those programs have to be helpful 
when they are called upon to be the safety net. Without getting 
any deeper than that, we certainly want to see those changed.
    Senator Ernst. Yes. You would both also state, though, that 
because of some of the weather events it is extremely important 
to have these protections in place. Correct?
    Mr. Larew. Yes.
    Mr. Duvall. Very much, and crop insurance reacts a lot 
faster than ad hoc. When farmers participate in that risk 
management tool, the claims are made, and they get return on 
their investment a lot quicker than they would through ad hoc.
    Senator Ernst. Yes, absolutely. I appreciate that. I know 
how important that crop insurance is, and again, hear that so 
much from our farmers. That is one thing that I stress to 
people that are not in ag country, because for some reason they 
think the entirety of the farm bill is crop insurance. I always 
have to make the point that it is such an insignificant--not 
insignificant--but small amount within the farm bill is 
actually crop insurance, and the vast majority of the farm bill 
is actually the food bill. I really appreciate your comments 
this morning, and I appreciate the folks on this Committee that 
are working very hard to make sure that crop insurance stays 
available to those who need it.
    Thank you very much.
    Senator Smith. Thank you. Senator Hoeven.
    Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thanks for 
holding this hearing, and thanks to both of the witnesses for 
coming today.
    My first question to both of you just picks up on something 
that Senator Ernst just mentioned. Since less than 20 percent 
of the farm bill now actually supports our producers, is it not 
vitally important that we make sure that it is adequate to 
support those producers that produce the highest quality, 
lowest cost food supply, which not only benefits all the folks 
that are on Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Payments but 
everybody in America. Would you agree with that? It is very 
important that we get the 20 percent that goes to farmers 
right, and that it is adequately resourced. Would you agree 
with that, each of you?
    Mr. Duvall. We would.
    Mr. Larew. Yes.
    Senator Hoeven. Good. Along those lines, producers over and 
over tell me, and I think others, that crop insurance is their 
No. 1 risk management tool. Would you agree with that, and does 
that not mean that we need to make sure that it is adequately 
updated and resourced for them? Would you both agree with that?
    Mr. Duvall. Yes.
    Mr. Larew. Yes.
    Senator Hoeven. How about the countercyclical safety net? 
Right now we have ARC and PLC. Do you both believe it needs to 
be updated, both ARC and PLC, so that it provides the necessary 
support now? Would you both agree with that? Any 
recommendations you would have to doing that, unless you do not 
agree. Then I do not want to hear your recommendations.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Larew. I certainly agree, and we do think it is time to 
increase the reference prices and those price triggers in both 
programs, and certainly we would also advocate and encourage 
the Committee to consider a dual enrollment option also of ARC 
and PLC.
    Senator Hoeven. The flexibility is important.
    Mr. Larew. Absolutely.
    Senator Hoeven. Mr. Duvall?
    Mr. Duvall. I would agree. Also, it is vitally important 
that we recognize what it really costs to grow a crop. On my 
farm this year I paid 300 percent more for nitrogen than I did 
last year, 300 percent. Who can absorb that in their budget and 
continue to operate? No one can.
    Senator Hoeven. Right. Both fuel and fertilizer inputs are, 
yes, much higher for our producers.
    Then along those lines, wouldn't you both agree that if we 
get this right, that reduces the need for ad hoc disaster 
assistance in the out years. Would you both agree with that?
    Mr. Duvall. Yes.
    Mr. Larew. We hope.
    Senator Hoeven. Well, I understand. If we need it, I am 
going to be there working with you. Getting this right should 
help mitigate that need, should it not?
    Mr. Larew. Absolutely.
    Senator Hoeven. You both agree with that.
    For our livestock producers, obviously we have got to work 
on markets, on competition, on transparency. Would you both 
agree with that?
    Mr. Larew. Yes.
    Mr. Duvall. Yes.
    Senator Hoeven. Then also talk to me about both Livestock 
Indemnity Program (LIP), and Emergency Livestock Assistance 
Program (ELAP). Shouldn't we do more with those two programs so 
that, for our livestock producers, they have some of that same 
type of risk management that our farmers do, and do you have 
recommendations on those livestock programs, specifically, LIP, 
ELAP, or others? Mr. Duvall.
    Mr. Duvall. I do not have the recommendations to give to 
you today, but we can do that through staff. Yes, I think it is 
just as important to make sure that our livestock producers 
have the same risk management tools that we would in row crop 
areas.
    Senator Hoeven. Thank you. Mr. Larew?
    Mr. Larew. Absolutely. The need is there. We ought to work 
to address it.
    Senator Hoeven. Okay. Let us talk about conservation 
programs, I know programs that are very important to our 
Chairman. In terms of these programs, it seems to me that for 
these programs to work they need to be farmer friendly. They 
need to be farmer friendly so that hit actually helps the 
producer out there. They are the landowner, right? In terms of 
these programs, I think it is very important that they are 
voluntary, and it is not a one-size-fits-all.
    Starting with you, Mr. Duvall, would you comment in regard 
to those points?
    Mr. Duvall. You know, we mentioned earlier that all regions 
across the country are different, so conservation programs are 
different from one region to the other. Climate projects are 
different from one region to the other. One size does not fit 
all. We have to have the research and development dollars being 
spent to give us the right practices that we need to be in, in 
conservation, and then we need to make sure that the moneys are 
there, available.
    I mentioned earlier that the list for EQIP, all my working 
years have been long, long, long, and a lot of times I would 
get into it, and a lot of times I would not get into it.
    Senator Hoeven. Right. It is a big, diverse world out there 
in agriculture, so voluntary and not one-size-fit-all is 
vitally important for the success of these programs.
    Mr. Duvall. That is exactly right.
    Senator Hoeven. Mr. Larew?
    Mr. Larew. Yes. I would just echo that I think the success 
of that particular model of being voluntary and having that 
flexibility in there is proven out by the fact that many of 
these programs have historically been oversubscribed and 
underfunded. Making sure that we have the resources in there to 
serve as many as possible is really important.
    Senator Hoeven. Thanks to both of you. Thank you, Madam 
Chair.
    Senator Smith. Thank you, Senator Hoeven. Senator Grassley.
    Senator Grassley. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
    First, I want to say my that long-held belief is that farm 
policy should be a limited safety net that helps farmers 
weather the storm of natural disasters and any unpredictable 
thing that affects commodity markets, and there are plenty of 
things like embargos and things like that, that can do great 
damage.
    Anyway, there is a lot of talk about the need to increase 
reference prices because of falling farm income. According to 
USDA data, we will see net farm income drop slightly this year, 
but we will have to remember that in 2022, the United States 
set a record in farm income. Farm safety is there to help 
mitigate losses, not just increase producers' bottom lines, 
during times of relatively high commodity prices.
    As Ranking Member of the Budget Committee, I care about how 
we are saddling future generations with our debt. The 
fundamental problem that we have in the Federal budget is not 
one of under-taxation but of overspending.
    Mr. Duvall, I continue to hear that we need to improve and 
strengthen the farm safety net. Do you have any idea of ways of 
doing that without spending more money?
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Duvall. I wish I did. I would get the prize of the day. 
By the way, it is good to see you here and looking so healthy.
    Senator Grassley. Thank you. Thank you.
    Mr. Duvall. That is a tough question. How do you do it and 
not spend more money. I think we have just got to make sure 
that we determine what is going to keep our safety net strong 
and determine what it is going to take to keep our farmers 
strong, so that we can keep our national security strong. To 
determine what that is, the amount of money it is going to take 
to do that, is really up to Congress to do that. We are here to 
help you in any way, to give you the information you need to do 
that. To do it without any more money, I do not have any 
suggestions in that area.
    Senator Grassley. Well, let me suggestion to you, and you 
come from southern agriculture that does like Grassley's idea 
of limitation on what one farm can get out of the farm program.
    For you and Mr. Larew I have this question, but before I 
ask the question, rules that you must be actively engaged in 
farming to be eligible for commodity price support programs 
were intended by Congress to make sure that the farm subsidies 
made it directly to the hands of our country's hardworking 
farmers. However, in 2020, the USDA rules exempt all family 
farms from the requirement, which we know that USDA defines as 
98 percent of all farms.
    To you two, is it fair to the taxpayer and smaller farms 
that do not qualify that extended family members, including 
siblings, cousins, nephews, nieces, can all receive the 
$250,000 annual from the Federal Government, even though they 
have not done a tick of farm work over the last year? In your 
opinion, how many hours would be needed for someone to be 
actively engaged in farming? Remember, this question comes from 
the fact that 10 percent of the biggest farmers get 70 percent 
of the benefits of the farm program.
    Mr. Larew.
    Mr. Larew. National Farmers Union strongly supports 
actively engaged provisions that limit payments to those who 
are truly invested in management and labor and provisions. We 
certainly would be willing to work to look for ways to ensure 
that those rules are being met, as intended by Congress.
    Mr. Duvall. I would agree with that, but we need to make 
sure that we understand that farm operations, family farm 
operations do not look the same as they did 30, 40 years ago. 
Just for the sake of efficiencies, we have family farm 
operations that are made up of cousins and second cousins and 
sisters and brothers, all farming together, using the same 
equipment, overlapping work responsibilities, and we need to 
make sure that those people that are actively working are able 
to be able to participate in those programs.
    Senator Grassley. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
    Senator Smith. Thank you, Senator Grassley.
    Senator Thune, I believe you are next.
    Senator Thune. Well, I am not officially on this 
Subcommittee, Madam Chair, but thank you for the opportunity to 
be here to ask some questions. Thank you to our panelists here 
today.
    Obviously, agriculture is the No. 1 industry in South 
Dakota, incredibly important to our State, and so the farm bill 
is always an important conversation, and I hope as we move 
forward we can enact policy that will be good for the 
prosperity of agriculture and our rural economy in this 
country. I would like to, just if I might, ask a couple of 
questions with regard to Title I of the farm bill, the 
commodity title, and what thoughts or suggestions you all might 
have. I assume maybe you covered this already, but if you could 
at least reiterate your thoughts about what we do with ARC and 
PLC.
    We know crop insurance is the cornerstone in terms of the 
farm safety net, but those programs complement that, and a lot 
has changed since we lived the last farm bill in 2018, with 
respect to reference prices. Could you give us perhaps your 
thoughts about what we might do to shore up that aspect of our 
farm policy?
    Mr. Larew. I appreciate the question because in terms of 
the safety net, and ARC and PLC in particular, we think that 
they are basically strong provisions providing support that we 
feel needs to be updated to reflect kind of additional costs 
out there. Raising reference prices is really critical in that.
    I would also just highlight that in spite of the land grant 
economist models of what farmers potentially should choose 
between ARC and PLC, for many producers it still a little bit 
of a guessing game out there about what is that year going to 
look like, which program is going to provide the better support 
for my operation. While the yearly kind of election is 
important, Farmers Union would like the Committee to explore a 
dual enrollment of ARC and PLC as one of the additional 
operations that would be part of the suite.
    Mr. Duvall. Mr. Larew has represented it very well, and I 
would just reiterate the biggest change we have seen is in the 
cost of production, the cost of us producing those products. To 
make sure that that safety net is accurate it needs to be 
updated as to what the real cost of production is.
    Senator Thune. You continue to support annual election of 
PLC and ARC?
    Mr. Duvall. Yes, sir.
    Senator Thune. Farmers Union is dual, basically, as opposed 
to--okay. All right. Well, that was a provision that we had 
included, that I worked to get included in the 2018 Farm Bill, 
and it is available, of course, in 2022 and 2023, as well.
    Mr. Larew, in your testimony you discussed the Soil Health 
and Income Protection Program, which I authored for the 2018 
Farm Bill. SHIP has provided producers in the Prairie Pothole 
States with a short-term option to conserve their least-
productive land, which unlike the CRP program requires a 
commitment of only three to five years.
    Could you maybe describe how a SHIP reauthorization and 
expansion could help producers enhance their operations?
    Mr. Larew. Absolutely. First of all, we would just thank 
you for the leadership and the vision in this provision. It has 
enabled producers to have a great deal of flexibility in that 
Prairie Pothole region for land that is marginal and should not 
be in production. Providing the shorter-term contracts in 
exchange for partial rental payment there has really enabled 
producers to have that flexibility of production in a given 
year or series of year.
    We would certainly support authorization of that, and 
possibly looking at expanding that model to allow that same 
sort of flexibility of taking marginal land out of production 
on a shorter-term basis to larger parts of the country.
    Senator Thune. Mr. Duvall, you, I think, would acknowledge, 
and I think most would, as I said earlier, that crop insurance 
is a critically important tool to mitigate risks associated 
with production agriculture, and maybe you could just briefly 
describe the Farm Bureau's ideas to improve that program in the 
next farm bill.
    Mr. Duvall. Crop insurance?
    Senator Thune. Yes.
    Mr. Duvall. Well, like we said earlier, we need to make 
sure we have the funding and support for it. We need to broaden 
it and improve it, and by broaden it I mean making sure that 
all commodities have access to affordable crop insurance. It 
has to be funded at a level that it does not dilute it down to 
where it is not an effective risk management tool.
    Senator Thune. Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank for your 
indulgence. My time has expired, but I would, to perhaps get 
you both on the record, if I can, with regard to some of the 
CRP changes that we are proposing, I, along with Senator 
Klobuchar, are proposing to make in this bill, to make it a 
more effective working lands-oriented program in our farm 
policy. If I could get you--I have got a couple of questions 
for the record that I will submit.
    Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Senator Smith. Thank you very much.
    Seeing no further members joining the Committee for this 
first panel, we will close down the first panel and welcome the 
second panel to the table here.
    Thank you very much, President Larew and President Duvall. 
We greatly appreciated your testimony and you answering our 
questions so ably.
    [Pause.]
    Senator Smith. Well, good morning, and welcome to our 
second panel. We will start with witness introductions, and we 
will begin with Mr. Ackerman, and Senator Stabenow is 
introducing Mr. Ackerman today.
    Senator Stabenow. Well, thank you so much. It is great to 
see you, and thank you again, Chairwoman, for the opportunity 
to introduce my constituent, Greg Ackerman. Mr. Ackerman, who 
hails from Vassar, Michigan, has farmed for 38 years and grows 
dry beans, wheat, sugarbeets, corn, and soybeans. Today he is 
testifying in his capacity as the Past Chairman of the Michigan 
Bean Commission and as a Michigan Delegate to the U.S. Dry Bean 
Council.
    Thank you so much for being here. We look forward to 
hearing your testimony.
    Senator Smith. Thank you. Next, we would like to welcome 
Mr. Kody Carson, Past Chair of the National Sorghum Producers. 
Kody and his wife, Kimbra, operate the family farm in Lamb and 
Hale Counties, Texas, where they grow sorghum, cotton, wheat, 
and produce cattle. Kody currently serves as Past Chair of the 
National Sorghum Producers. Welcome.
    Then I would like to welcome Mr. Brent Cheyne--am I saying 
your name correctly? Thank you--President of the National 
Association of Wheat Growers. Mr. Cheyne serves as the National 
Association of Wheat Growers' president. He farms with his son 
near Klamath Falls, in southern Oregon, where he raises wheat, 
barley, oats, and alfalfa, and Angus cattle.
    Next, welcome to Mr. Blake Gendebien, Vice Chair of Agri-
Mark Family Dairy Farms Co-op. Blake and his family operate a 
500-cow dairy and farm 1,200 acres of alfalfa, corn, and 
soybeans in New York. Blake currently serves as Vice Chair of 
Agri-Mark, his dairy cooperative.
    Next we have Mr. Rich Hillman, of Hillman Farms, on behalf 
of USA Rice Federation, and Senator Boozman will introduce Mr. 
Hillman.
    Senator Boozman. Thank you, Madam Chair, and it is an honor 
to introduce Mr. Rich Hillman. Rich would tell you, with pride, 
that he is a sixth-generation farmer in Lonoke County, 
Arkansas, where he grows rice, soybeans, and corn, and that the 
main reason he could be here and testify today is because the 
seventh generation is back home running the farm. We are 
grateful that you could make it, Rich, because you are so well-
positioned to speak on issues affecting the broader needs of 
farmers in Arkansas.
    Rich serves on the USA Rice Farmers board of directors as 
Vice Chairman of the Board for Riceland and Foods and 
represents his State well as the President of the Arkansas Farm 
Bureau.
    I always tell people back in the State to grab me by the 
lapels and let me know what Congress needs to be doing better. 
Rich takes that literally, so we appreciate him very, very 
much. We are lucky to have him in Arkansas and grateful he took 
time away from the farm to be with us today.
    Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Senator Smith. Thank you so much.
    Next, we would like to welcome Mr. Patrick Johnson, who 
will be introduced by Senator Hyde-Smith.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and it is 
my pleasure to introduce Mr. Patrick Johnson, a cotton producer 
from Tunica, Mississippi. Mr. Johnson serves on the National 
Cotton Council board of directors and chairs the American 
Cotton Producers Farm Policy Task Force.
    Patrick wears a lot of hats. He is also currently a member 
of the EPA Pesticide Policy Dialogue Committee, a director for 
Tunica County Farm Bureau, and a Commissioner for the 
Mississippi Department of Environmental Quality. He has held 
previous roles in many other organizations, and recently 
completed a term as President of Delta Council, which you will 
be speaking at, Ranking Member Boozman, this year, an economic 
development and agricultural organization in the Mississippi 
Delta. We certainly appreciate Senator Boozman participating.
    He is a graduate of the University of Mississippi and 
joined his current farming operation in 1996. Mr. Johnson lives 
in Tunica with his wife Emily.
    Welcome, Mr. Johnson. I will certainly look forward to your 
testimony today.
    Senator Smith. Thank you so much.
    Next, we would like to welcome Mr. Caleb Ragland, who is 
Secretary of the American Soybean Association. Mr. Ragland is a 
farmer from Magnolia, Kentucky, where he farms 4,000 acres of 
soybeans, corn, and winter wheat. Welcome to the Committee.
    Mr. Neil Rockstad, welcome to the Committee. Mr. Rockstad 
is Vice President of the American Sugarbeet Growers 
Association, a fellow Minnesotan. Mr. Rockstad and his wife 
Elizabeth farm near Ada, Minnesota, where they raise wheat, 
soybeans, corn, and sugarbeets on land that was once farmed by 
three of their grandparents and three great-grandparents. Neil 
currently serves as President of the Red River Valley Sugarbeet 
Growers Association board of directors and serves as Vice 
President on the American Sugarbeet Growers Association board 
of directors. Welcome.
    Ms. Karla Baker Thompson, welcome to the Subcommittee. She 
is Vice President of J.E.T Farms and Georgia Integrity Farmers. 
She is a farmer living in Georgia and attorney by training. She 
previously practiced business and insurance law before moving 
to southwest Georgia to work with her husband Aaron on his 
family farm. Their farms are in Georgia and Florida, where they 
grow peanuts, sweet corn, green beans, blueberries, and 
sugarcane.
    Last but certainly not least, my friend and fellow 
Minnesotan, Mr. Harold Wolle, who is First Vice President of 
the National Corn Growers Association. Harold is from Madelina, 
Minnesota, where I have visited. He is transitioning his farm 
to his son, Matt, who rents the tillable land of his ground, 
which I think is about 1,700 acres. Mr. Wolle also has 200 
acres enrolled in the CRP program. As NCGA First Vice 
President, Harold serves as the First Vice President of the 
National Corn Growers Association Foundation and on the Finance 
Committee, and on the State level, Harold is a Past President 
of Minnesota Corn Growers. Welcome so much to the Committee.
    Now, you each have five minutes for your opening 
statements. There is a clock in front of you to help guide you 
through, and we will certainly take your full written statement 
to be made a part of the record.
    Mr. Ackerman, you are recognized for your opening 
statement.

  STATEMENT OF GREG ACKERMAN, PAST CHAIR OF THE MICHIGAN BEAN 
 COMMISSION; DELEGATE TO THE U.S. DRY BEAN COUNCIL, VASSAR, MI

    Mr. Ackerman. Thank you for that introduction, Senator. 
First off, I would like to take this opportunity to thank you 
for being able to testify here today and to represent the dry 
bean growers across the U.S.
    As the Senator said, my name is Greg Ackerman, a farmer 
from Vassar, Michigan, past Chairman of the Michigan Bean 
Commission, and current Delegate to the U.S. Dry Bean Council. 
On our family farm we currently grow soybeans, corn, 
sugarbeets, wheat, and dry edible beans including navy beans, 
black beans, and small red beans.
    Dry bean production fits really well under our operation 
and has a unique sustainability story to tell. They are a 
short-season crop that does not need much water or fertilizer. 
Dry beans typically grow between 90 and 100 days from plant to 
harvest, meaning you can plant them the first of June and 
harvest them the first week of September. With that short of a 
season crop, it allows us to benefit by utilizing cover crops 
in our rotation, which builds soil health.
    In addition, we are proud to be producers of a very health, 
nutrient dense, plant-based superfood. Many studies have shown 
when dry beans are used in human diets it has proven to lower 
the risk of cancer, improve gut health, and lower the risk of 
obesity. I believe beans are part of the solution to solving 
world hunger and are also a piece of the solution to climate 
change.
    Some of the farm bill Federal policy priorities for our 
industry include, and what we talked quite a bit about already, 
was maintain funding for crop insurance. This is the sole farm 
safety net program for dry bean producers. This program should 
be maintained and expanded, where possible. Federal support for 
insurance premiums increases participation for coverage carried 
by growers. The more participation and coverage provided 
through crop insurance, the less need there is for ad hoc 
disaster assistance. The fact that dry beans are not part of 
the farm program authorized under Title I of the farm bill, 
this makes the Federal crop insurance even more vital for our 
growers.
    Increased funding for MAP and FMD, something you have not 
heard of yet here today. The U.S. Dry Bean Council, along with 
70 other agricultural organizations receive MAP and FMD funds. 
Both programs are authorized in the farm bill. The spending 
level for MAP and FMD have been flat for 20 years. 
Sequestration, inflation, administrative fees have all reduced 
the real funding available to these organizations.
    Continuation of the McGovern-Dole International Food for 
Education and Child Nutrition Program. This program supports 
education, child development, and food security in insecure 
countries. The program authorized under the farm bill provides 
for the donation of U.S. agriculture commodities, including dry 
beans, as well as financial and technical assistance to support 
school feeding and material and child nutrition programs.
    Continuation of the sclerotinia initiative. U.S. Dry Bean 
Council requests reauthorization of the National Sclerotinia 
Initiative under the farm bill. The goal of the NSI is to 
employ a coordinated research strategy to minimize the 
devastating effects of sclerotinia, better known as white mold, 
which causes serious economic loss by negatively impacting crop 
quality and yields that impact our growers' bottom lines. This 
also impacts the lines as a soybean producer as well.
    Finally, trade. Since this Subcommittee jurisdiction 
includes trade issues, we would like to take this opportunity 
to urge you to renew support for expanded trade and new trade 
agreements. With this competitive environment changing, 
particularly in the post-pandemic world, the U.S. dry bean 
industry needs competitive trade advantages around the world. 
We continue to suffer from lost markets in the EU and the U.K. 
as a result of years of retaliatory tariffs, also known as 232 
tariffs. Prior to the tariffs, the EU was a large importer of 
U.S. dry beans.
    This topic personally hits home to me. As a representative 
of the United States Dry Bean Council, I personally had the 
opportunity to attend back-to-back trade missions to the EU and 
the U.K., while the tariffs were in place. We met with 
government officials such as the U.K. Department of 
International Trade, USDA's Foreign Ag Service, Trade 
Ambassador to the U.S., and the Director General for Trade of 
the European Commission. We also met with many end users that 
typically use our products. A couple of the larger ones you may 
have heard of would be Kraft Heinz and Princess Foods.
    Unfortunately, dry beans were just a victim that stemmed 
from the retaliatory tariffs. When these tariffs were 
eventually removed in June 2022, our industry was thinking this 
region would be back in the U.S. market, but that has not been 
the case today. Once you lose these markets and lets others in, 
build those relationships and figure out how to compete, not 
only on the production side but on the quality side of the 
U.S., it is hard to earn those markets back.
    Please consider these priorities as you move through the 
complexities of this farm bill, and thank you again for the 
opportunity to testify here today.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Ackerman can be found on 
page 77 in the appendix.]

    Senator Smith. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Carson.

   STATEMENT OF KODY CARSON, PAST CHAIRMAN, NATIONAL SORGHUM 
                     PRODUCERS, LUBBOCK, TX

    Mr. Carson. Well, good morning. Thank you, Chairwoman Smith 
and Ranking Member Hyde-Smith, for the opportunity to be with 
the Committee today.
    As previously stated, my name is Kody Carson, and I farm 
with my wife Kimber in Lamb and Hale Counties of Texas. I 
served as the immediate Past Chairman of the National Sorghum 
Producers Board of Directors, and I think that with the 
exception of dairy and rice, I either grow or have grown every 
crop that is represented here today. Very few of us farmers are 
monocultures. I appreciate my colleagues being here.
    It is an honor to be here today, and I hope that my 
testimony on behalf of the National Sorghum Producers, but more 
importantly as a farmer, will be helpful to you.
    I would like to begin by giving a brief state of where the 
sorghum industry currently is. Sorghum farmers across the 
Plains States are facing an exceptional drought, and we have 
been for several years now. Farmers in these States have been 
hammered with intense drought conditions heading into the 
harvests of last summer, and those conditions remain as we head 
into this year's planting season. Out of the hundreds of 
sorghum acres I planted last year, I literally harvested one 
field. The national average sorghum yield was the lowest our 
industry has seen since the 1960's.
    In addition to historic drought impacting our operations, 
market volatility, inflationary pressures, and higher expenses, 
coupled with lower projections for crops cash receipts, are 
only adding to the stress and uncertainty we face in 
agricultural production today.
    We are fortunate to have tools that can help sorghum 
producers through these extreme events that are beyond our 
control and in order to stay in business. Items such as Title 
I, crop insurance, and congressionally authorized ad hoc 
assistance programs have been invaluable in these stressful 
times. Due to the increasing severity of these challenges we 
face, we believe farmers and ranchers need a stronger farm 
safety net to provide predictability and certainty for 
producers and lenders.
    It is also clear that more resources will be necessary to 
enact a strong farm bill this year, as there is simply a major 
shortfall in the safety net funding compared to our historic 
levels. My cost of production has also increased, most on the 
order of 50 percent, some 100. As Mr. Duvall stated, some 
inputs are up to 300 percent higher.
    While the changes in the 2018 Farm Bill have been helpful, 
given the level and speed at which these costs have increased 
statutory PLC reference prices are now far too low to provide 
an effective support, in light of the many risk factors we are 
currently facing. The same is true of marketing loans, which 
remain an important cash-flow tool for farmers, but now they 
are also low relative to our current risk.
    Sorghum producers are grateful for the wisdom of this 
Committee typing the reference price to the market with an 
escalator in the 2018 Farm Bill, as it will create some 
improvement to the level of certainty and confidence of sorghum 
farmers. However, given spiraling input costs, there is room 
for improvement in that as well.
    Crop insurance is vital for sorghum producers, and the 
tools has been critical in helping us manage the ongoing 
drought conditions that are decimating the Sorghum Belt. 
Availability of products and insurance ratings, however, can 
have a very real, local impact on plantings, and we believe the 
Committee can take measures to improve in this area.
    Due to sorghum's ability to withstand short periods of 
drought and heat better than most other crops, farmers do tend 
to deploy sorghum more aggressively when our production outlook 
is bleak. This fact exposes the crop to extra environmental 
stress and high-risk situations, and as a result, sorghum 
transitional yields suffer as do our insurance product ratings 
and cost to participate, compared to some other crops.
    Fortunately, RMA announced a new crop insurance option last 
year for irrigated sorghum farmers that is now available in the 
2023 growing season. This option benchmarks sorghum to corn for 
a higher guarantee for less money, and will be available as a 
pilot program to farmers in certain counties in Kansas, 
Oklahoma, and Texas.
    We continue to work closely with RMA and look forward to 
working with this Committee to buildupon these efforts to 
provide meaningful solutions to sorghum farmers. As we back out 
to look at a bigger picture, sorghum is always competing for 
acreage to supply our growing market. Most of that competition 
is with soybeans and corn in the northern portion of the 
Sorghum Belt, where their insurance rates are simply better 
than those I just described. With respect to cotton in the 
south, they have options of higher levels of coverage at higher 
levels of premium cost share that we do not have, and we would 
just ask for parity.
    Sorghum needs the ability to buy insurance products at 
similar high levels to compete for acres. We believe this will 
serve all farmers and foster a better use of resources over 
time to help address our parity and our acreage competition 
concerns.
    We appreciate what this Committee is looking at and ways to 
address our weather disasters through improvements, and we 
believe that a cost-share policy for sorghum is a worthwhile 
pursuit. We look forward to working with this Committee and our 
fellow commodity organizations.
    I would like to personally thank this full Committee for 
the letter that was sent on to the Budget Committee. It had 
some very valuable information, and I appreciate all the 
thought process that was sent into that.
    With that, Madam Chairman, I just want to say thank you, as 
a farmer member, and look forward to National Sorghum Producers 
being able to assist you in any way we can.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Carson can be found on page 
80 in the appendix.]

    Senator Smith. Thank you so much.
    Mr. Cheyne.

 STATEMENT OF BRENT CHEYNE, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF 
                WHEAT GROWERS, KLAMATH FALLS, OR

    Mr. Cheyne. I thank the Chair, Ranking Member, and members 
of the Subcommittee for the opportunity to testify and provide 
a wheat farmer perspective on the farm safety net. My name is 
Brent Cheyne, a farmer from Klamath Falls, Oregon, where I 
operated a certified Century Farm with my son. We pride 
ourselves in creating a quality product, and my son is 
committed to carrying on the family tradition and business of 
working hard and being a good steward of the land.
    I also currently serve as the President of the National 
Association of Wheat Growers (NAWG). NAWG is a federation of 
growers from 20 wheat States that represents wheat producers' 
needs and interests in Washington, DC. Our members feel it is 
essential to testify today.
    With rising input costs, decreasing net farm income, and 
the smallest winter wheat crop since the 1960's, it is very 
important that we take this opportunity to enhance the farming 
safety net. The commodity, crop insurance, and trade programs 
play an important role in preserving rural economies, keeping 
food supply stable, and keeping farmers on the family land.
    NAWG's No. 1 priority is protecting crop insurance. Cuts 
were made in previous farm bills in an effort to be more 
fiscally conservative. This directly led to increased ad hoc 
disaster programs as the farming safety net came up short. It 
is imperative that we avoid similar cuts in the future. Not 
only does crop insurance protect farmers, it protects the banks 
and small businesses that help supply them and make rural 
communities and economies thrive.
    My farm utilizes a yield protection policy with a coverage 
of 80 percent. We have a stake in the premiums, and it helps 
protect us in the case of disaster or yield loss. While we 
would like to insure the farm at a higher level, the policies 
are too expensive. Congress should take a hard look at this 
issue and make the program more affordable at higher levels of 
coverage. In short, NAWG asks that Congress make a good program 
better.
    The PLC reference price has never changed, and prices have 
risen to a point that it would take a 38 percent decrease 
before triggering a payment. Any industry that loses over a 
third of its price would struggle to survive. NAWG asks that 
this Committee significantly increase the wheat PLC reference 
price so that it better reflects the current state of the 
agriculture economy.
    Like everything else in the economy, funds for trade 
promotion programs like MAP and FMD have lost their 
effectiveness from inflation and sequestration. NAWG would like 
to see the funding double for these programs, and thanks the 
Senators here that sponsored the Expanding Agricultural Export 
Act. These programs have excellent return on investment and 
work to expand the markets for our products.
    In a time when our competitors are investing in expanding 
their markets, we need to be doing the same. While ad hoc 
programs were needed to fill gaps left by cuts in the farm 
safety net, these programs were after the fact and lacked long-
term certainty. Many times the programs led to stress at our 
USDA office, were complicated, and took a long time to reach 
the ones that needed it the most. Farmers cannot rely on these 
programs to mitigate the risks. It is imperative that Congress 
strengthen the farm safety net programs that are predictable 
and effective.
    NAWG knows that these requests require money. However, the 
farm bill has received spending cuts in the past. The farming 
safety net makes up only two-tenths of one percent of Federal 
spending. It is essential to keep food supplies stable and 
rural economies thriving. This is why we joined with over 400 
other agricultural organizations in a letter to the Budget 
Committees requesting more resources. It would be a waste of an 
opportunity to not make these investments in the farm bill.
    Wheat farmers across the country are experiencing high 
prices, but at extreme risk. My written testimony shows the 
impact that inflation, interest rates, and severe drought are 
already having on the farmer's bottom line. High prices are 
meaningless when there is nothing to harvest, which many 
farmers in winter wheat-producing areas of the country are 
experiencing this year. Congress must act now to enhance the 
farm safety net.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify at this hearing. I 
look forward to your questions, and I even more greatly look 
forward to the opportunity to work with you on the upcoming 
2023 Farm Bill.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Cheyne can be found on page 
86 in the appendix.]

    Senator Smith. Thank you so much.
    Next we have Mr. Gendebien.

  STATEMENT OF BLAKE GENDEBIEN, VICE CHAIR, AGRI-MARK FAMILY 
                DAIRY FARM CO-OP, OGDENSBURG, NY

TESTIFYING ON BEHALF OF NATIONAL MILK PRODUCERS FEDERATION
    Mr. Gendebien. Chair Smith, Ranking Member Hyde-Smith, 
thank you for the opportunity to testify today. My name is 
Blake Gendebien. My family and I own and operate Twin Mill 
Farms, a dairy in northern New York.
    I am proud to be Vice Chairman of Agri-Mark, a dairy 
cooperative owned by more than 500 dairy farm families in New 
York and New England. I am testifying today on behalf of the 
National Milk Producers Federation, of which Agri-Mark is a 
member.
    I am pleased to offer comments on dairy policy. When this 
Committee began its work on the last farm bill, dairy policy 
was much less effective than it is today. The previous Margin 
Protection Program, while well-intended, fell short of 
providing the protection required of a valuable farm safety 
net. Further, unlike row crop farmers, dairy farmers lacked 
access to the risk management options that can help meet their 
unique needs.
    Dairy farmers are grateful for the work this Committee did 
to reform the dairy safety net in both the 2018 Farm Bill and 
the Bipartisan Budget Act of 2018, and I am grateful to all of 
you for advocating for producers nationwide.
    The Dairy Margin Coverage Program is a major improvement 
over MPP and has performed as a strong safety net for dairy 
farmers during difficult times. Since the program was 
implemented in 2019, my farm has consistently purchased the 
maximum coverage.
    The next farm bill provides another opportunity to make 
improvements. DMC's underlying production history calculation 
is outdated. Dairy farmers need the opportunity to update their 
production history to reflect more current production levels. 
We are grateful to this Committee for enacting supplemental 
dairy margin coverage payments to compensate farmers for 
incremental increases as of 2019. It is critical that this 
adjustment be continued and enhanced in the farm bill.
    National Milk's Economic Policy Committee is reviewing 
other potential improvements to DMC. The program currently 
allows producers to pay lower premiums for the first five 
million pounds. I believe a modest increase to this threshold 
would benefit many family dairy farmers in the Northeast and 
nationwide.
    We are also grateful that dairy farmers now have access to 
crop insurance-like tools such as Dairy Revenue Protection 
(DRP) and Livestock Gross Margin Dairy. These programs give all 
farmers the ability to adapt their risk management to their 
needs. Further improvement would make these programs more 
affordable for all producers, and that would enhance 
participation as well.
    Beyond these programs, the Federal Milk Marketing Order 
system provides significant value and safeguards to dairy 
farmers, cooperatives, and processors. Federal Orders are 
designed to assure consumers an adequate supply of fluid milk 
and to promote orderly marketing conditions for farmers. 
However, the industry has changed significantly since the last 
major updates in 2000.
    To help the system reflect today's dairy sector, National 
Milk has worked extensively over the past year, through a 
comprehensive process to modernize the Federal Order system. 
After more than 150 meetings, including dairy farmers and 
cooperative experts, National Milk's board of directors gave 
unanimous approval in March to a comprehensive Federal Order 
proposal, and yesterday we submitted our petition to USDA for a 
national hearing.
    National Milk's proposal addresses numerous issues, 
including restoring the previous ``higher of'' Class I mover. 
The current mover enacted in the last farm bill was intended to 
be revenue-neutral but has cost dairy farmers nationwide more 
than $900 million due to market dynamics in both 2020 and 2022. 
We are grateful for the pandemic reimbursements USDA and 
Congress provided, but dairy farmers do not want to have policy 
in place that requires the government to spend hundreds of 
millions of dollars every time the current mover underperforms.
    Our petition also includes an essential update to make 
allowances, which have not changed since 2008, while 
manufacturing costs have increased clearly. Many dairy farmers 
like myself are members of cooperatives who own dairy 
processing plants, and therefore want to set the make allowance 
at the right level. In this context, we hope to work with this 
Committee in the next farm bill to require USDA to conduct 
mandatory plant cost studies every two years, and to report the 
results. This would provide us with the information needed to 
consider requesting future make allowance updates.
    My written testimony covers key issues beyond the dairy 
subtitle, including conservation, trade, nutrition, and near 
and dear to my heart, farm stress programs.
    Thank you again for the opportunity to testify. Thank you, 
my fellow farmers here, and I am happy to answer any questions 
you may have.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Gendebien can be found on 
page 98 in the appendix.]

    Senator Smith. Thank you so much.
    Next we will turn to Mr. Hillman.

 STATEMENT OF RICH HILLMAN, FARMER, HILLMAN FARMS, CARLISLE, AR

TESTIFYING ON BEHALF OF USA RICE FEDERATION
    Mr. Hillman. Good morning, Chairwoman Smith, Ranking Member 
Hyde-Smith, Chairwoman Stabenow, and Ranking Member Boozman, 
and members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity 
to testify here this morning. Senator Boozman, thank you for 
the warm introduction. I am honored to testify this morning on 
behalf of USA Rice, a national trade organization representing 
all rice farmers and segments of the rice industry.
    Rice is grown on about three million acres across the U.S. 
Half of that rice is consumed domestically while the other half 
is exported to more than 120 countries around the world. On 
average, each rice farmer contributes about $1 million to their 
local economy and employs six people. The broader $34 billion 
rice industry supports more than 125,000 jobs nationwide.
    Rice fields, the fields themselves, provide critical 
habitat for migratory waterfowl and other wildlife, and 
contribute substantially to biodiversity. More than 3.5 billion 
people worldwide depend on rice as a staple food--3.5 billion 
people. U.S. rice grown is accessible, affordable, and 
nutritious.
    Rice is not as fortunate as other commodities that saw a 
large run-up in the market prices during 2020 and 2021, all 
while contending with an unprecedented increase in costs of 
production.
    A Texas A&M University study in 2022, predicted two-thirds 
of rice farms would have negative net cash farm income in the 
2022 crop year. USDA also reports more than 30 percent increase 
in operating costs, which we talked about here this morning. On 
our farm, it was even higher.
    Thank you all, and in particular Senator Boozman, for 
providing vital assistance to rice farmers in 2022 crop year in 
the 2023 Omnibus Appropriation bill. It was truly critical for 
rice farmers, Senator.
    The current cost of production is extremely higher than the 
2012 levels, when current PLC reference prices was calculated 
and established in the 2014 Farm Bill. That makes the current 
program not a true safety net for rice farmers today.
    In 1986, a long time ago, I purchased my first combine for 
$100,000, or thereabouts. The stress that debt caused lost 
sleep and a lot of worry. Although I was fortunate to have my 
father as a backstop, I was determined to make that payment, 
and paid that machine off. My son, who is a seventh-generation 
farmer, and my brother, and I all have greater pressures and 
challenges today. That combine is now $750,000.
    The importance of that story is the economies of scale that 
we have, and they have only become more evident. To keep pace 
with capital and other costs, we must farm more land and take 
on a lot more risk. As a high-cost input crop subject to severe 
global market distortions due to predatory trade practices of 
foreign countries, U.S. rice farmers are more vulnerable to the 
impacts of inflation and global events that have caused 
increased costs of fuel, fertilizer, labor, as well as the 
highest interest rates many of the farmers, especially our 
young farmers, have ever experienced in their careers. A 
strengthened safety net would ultimately be more cost effective 
for farmers and taxpayers than continued ad hoc programs.
    The PLC program has traditionally been our true safety net, 
especially for rice farming. It has allowed us to better 
compete on a lopsided global playing field impacted by foreign 
subsidies, tariffs, and non-tariff trade barriers. India 
subsidizes its rice producers by upwards of 90 percent--90 
percent--and injected billions to offset escalating input 
costs. This is only one example of many predatory trade 
practices used by foreign competitors, and we continue to ask 
the U.S. to address blatant WTO violations.
    USA Rice strongly believes reference prices under PLC need 
to be increased and indexed to provide a safety net that 
remains relevant over the long haul to ensure the long-term 
viability of U.S. rice.
    The work that you all do in this Subcommittee and on the 
Senate Ag Committee is extremely important to the families that 
I represent. It is important to me and my family, and please, 
never underestimate what you do here in our Nation's Capital, 
because it is so critical to those family farmers. I appreciate 
all of your hard work and thank you for the opportunity this 
morning.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Hillman can be found on page 
103 in the appendix.]

    Senator Smith. Thank you so much, Mr. Hillman.
    Mr. Johnson, you are next.

 STATEMENT OF PATRICK JOHNSON, PRODUCER AND DIRECTOR, NATIONAL 
                   COTTON COUNCIL, TUNICA, MS

    Mr. Johnson. Chair Smith and Ranking Member Hyde-Smith, 
thank you for this opportunity to testify.
    My name is Patrick Johnson. I am a partner in Cypress Brake 
Planting Company, a family farming operation in the Mississippi 
Delta, located in Tunica, Mississippi. My farm produces cotton, 
rice, corn, soybeans, and what. I currently serve on the 
National Cotton Council board of directors and chair the 
American Cotton Producers Farm Policy Task Force.
    The general structure of the 2018 Farm Bill has served the 
industry well and should be maintained. However, additional 
funding is necessary to address challenges, both on the farm 
and throughout the supply chain. A strong cotton safety net 
must consist of two key components: an effective commodity 
policy that provides either price or revenue protection to 
address prolonged periods of low prices and depressed market 
conditions, and a strong and fully accessible suite of crop 
insurance products that producers can purchase to tailor their 
risk management.
    Supply chain disruptions and geopolitical challenges have 
led to a dramatic increase in production costs, leading to 
tighter margins and decreased profitability. Total production 
costs now range between 90 cents and $1 per pound, which is 
well above futures prices, in the low 80's. When calculated 
based on seed cotton, the cost of production is almost 48 
cents, far above the PLC reference price of 36.7 cents per 
pound. Today's production costs are diminishing the 
effectiveness of the current reference price, which should be 
increased.
    Additionally, cotton producers should not face limits to 
their crop insurance options. Eliminating the prohibition on 
simultaneous enrollment in PLC and the Stacked Income 
Protection Plan (STAX), would allow a grower to better tailor 
their risk management options while also decreasing their 
reliance on ad hoc disaster programs.
    On the topic of financing, the non-recourse marketing loan 
program for upland cotton remains vital for the U.S. cotton 
industry. However, despite higher production costs, the maximum 
level of the loan rate has remained at 52 cents, since 2002, 
and should be increased to better reflect costs of production 
and recent market prices.
    Furthermore, various loan repayment provisions should be 
modernized to better reflect the global market and higher 
storage and logistics costs. These improvements include 
allowing storage credits to better reflect actually storage 
charges; determining a globally competitive Adjusted World 
Price based on the three lowest international prices; limiting 
the amount of the annual decline in the costs-to-market values; 
and creating a 30-day window for finalizing the AWP.
    We should also remember that not all cotton is the same. 
The 2018 Farm Bill continued important programs for Pima 
cotton, which is grown in parts of the West. The 2023 Farm Bill 
should increase the Pima loan rate to a more reflective level 
of pricing and costs of production. To ensure this commodity 
remains competitive abroad, the next farm bill should also add 
marketing loan functionality to the Pima loan and maintain both 
the Pima Cotton Competitiveness Payment Program and the Pima 
Cotton Trust Fund.
    On the domestic manufacturing front, the Economic 
Adjustment Assistance for Textile Mills has allowed investments 
in new equipment and technology, thereby reducing costs, 
increasing efficiency, and allowing U.S. mills to be more 
competitive. To support American manufacturing, we urge 
Congress to restore the rate of 4 cents per pound, which was in 
place prior to 2012.
    Tarde is vital to our industry, which is why the Market 
Access Program (MAP) and Foreign Market Development Program 
(FMD) are so important. Our industry supports the Coalition to 
Promote U.S. Agriculture Exports' proposal to double funding 
for both MAP and FMD.
    Finally, our industry is opposed to any further tightening 
of payment limits and program eligibility requirements. We are 
encouraged that Congress has recognized this reality in recent 
disaster assistance by including increased payment limit levels 
for producers who realize the majority of their income from 
their farming operation. This same consideration should be 
given to Title I program limits in the next farm bill.
    In closing, I encourage the Committee to write a farm bill 
that provides long-term stability for the future and addresses 
the challenges that continue to be faced by our industry.
    Thank you for this opportunity, and I look forward to 
answering your questions.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Johnson can be found on page 
109 in the appendix.]

    Senator Smith. Thank you, Mr. Johnson.
    Mr. Ragland.

    STATEMENT OF CALEB RAGLAND, SECRETARY, AMERICAN SOYBEAN 
                   ASSOCIATION, MAGNOLIA, KY

    Mr. Ragland. Good morning, Chairwoman Smith, Ranking Member 
Hyde-Smith, and distinguished members of the Subcommittee. 
Thank you for the invitation to provide testimony as you 
develop the 2023 Farm Bill.
    My name is Caleb Ragland, and I am a ninth-generation 
farmer from Magnolia, Kentucky. I farm soybeans, corn, and 
wheat with my wife Leanne and our three sons--Charlie, Cory, 
and Carter. I am testifying on behalf of the American Soybean 
Association.
    ASA represents more than 500,000 soybeans farmers across 
the 30 primary soybean-producing States. Nationally, U.S. 
soybean farmers produced over 4 billion bushels last year on 
over 87 million planted acres.
    It is a busy season across soybean country, with farmers 
working hard to get this year's crop in the ground. We hope 
that at this time next year we will have a new farm bill in 
place that provides farmers a strong safety net that is 
stronger than what we have now. An effective safety net is 
vital. It should give us farmers confidence to put out a crop 
and know that we can keep the lights on when hard times hit.
    In the next farm bill we need help with two priorities with 
the farm safety net. One is protecting crop insurance and the 
other is improving Title I farm safety net for soybeans.
    We must protect crop insurance. This is the most effective 
and important component of the farm safety net for soybean 
farmers. Without crop insurance, the risks would be more than 
many farmers and lenders could stand. It certainly would be for 
me and my family. ASA urges you to protect crop insurance from 
harmful amendments that may arise.
    We must improve the Title I farm safety net. A predictable, 
effective farm safety net is needed for the duration of the 
next farm bill. In a February report, USDA projected a nearly 
21 percent decline in net cash farm income in 2023, relative to 
2022. This is a major cause for concern for farmers.
    Soybean growers have already experienced firsthand the 
challenges of an ineffective safety net. I will share with you 
my experience during the trade war with China in 2018 and 2019. 
The largest importer of soybeans in the world is China. Even 
with the ongoing efforts to diversify and open new markets, 
almost a third of all soybeans grown in the U.S. are destined 
for China.
    During the height of the trade war with China in 2018, U.S. 
soy stopped flowing to the Chinese market in our peak export 
period that fall. Soybean prices dropped significantly, but we 
received no PLC benefits and little from the ARC program. USDA 
stepped in with ad hoc, temporary support to farmers.
    If the trade war that shrunk soybean demand by over 30 
percent hardly triggered the farm safety net provided in the 
current farm bill, it is difficult to envision a scenario that 
would provide meaningful assistance without significant 
improvements to the current reference price and program 
elements of ARC and PLC.
    Another challenge impacting the accessibility and 
effectiveness of the farm safety net is the significant 
disparity in recent soybean planted acres compared to base 
acres, on which the ARC and PLC benefits are provided.
    In 2022, soybeans were planted nationally on over 87 
million acres. By comparison, soybean base totals 53 million 
acres. Over 34 million acres of soybeans were not protected by 
the soybean provisions of the ARC and PLC programs in 2022.
    Thanks to a recent purchase of cropland that has increased 
my own base acres, a quarter of my farm is now protected by ARC 
and PLC. Again, one quarter, or 25 percent of my acres. This 
does not make me feel confident about the farm safety net 
available to me and the next generation of farmers and my 
family.
    An option to voluntarily update program acres based on a 
more recent historical time period, would provide soybean 
farmers greater access to the soybean safety net, is needed. 
ASA urges an option to update base acres combined with other 
improvements to the ARC and PLC programs.
    Making improvements to the Title I farm safety net will 
require funding. We know that the budget challenges are real 
and will be difficult to navigate. We appreciate the Committee 
sending the strong bipartisan letter of support to the Budget 
Committee requesting funding for a successful farm bill.
    ASA also led a letter to the Budget Committee signed by 400 
organizations regarding the need for sufficient resources to 
write a meaningful farm bill. We ask that you keep agriculture 
in mind as budget discussions move forward on multiple fronts.
    Thank you for hearing from farmers today. We appreciate the 
opportunity to share testimony and your work to develop the 
2023 Farm Bill.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Ragland can be found on page 
119 in the appendix.]

    Senator Smith. Thank you, Mr. Ragland.
    Mr. Rockstad.

STATEMENT OF NEIL ROCKSTAD, VICE PRESIDENT, AMERICAN SUGARBEET 
                GROWERS ASSOCIATION, HENDRUM, MN

    Mr. Rockstad. Chairwoman Smith, Ranking Member Hyde-Smith, 
and members of the Subcommittee, good morning. Thank you for 
the opportunity to testify before you on behalf of the American 
Sugar Alliance. My name is Neil Rockstad. I am a farmer along 
with my wife Elizabeth. We farm in Ada, Minnesota, where we 
raise wheat, soybeans, corn, and sugarbeets. We are the fourth 
generation in our families to farm, and with any luck I hope 
that my daughters, Nora and Hazel, will have the opportunity to 
become the fifth.
    My family has raised sugarbeets for 75 years. I serve as 
Vice President of the American Sugarbeet Growers Association.
    This hearing is important for sugarbeet and sugarcane 
farmers because Title I of the farm bill represents a critical 
safety net for our farming families and the employees of our 
sugar processors throughout the country.
    The U.S. sugar industry generates more than 151,000 jobs, 
spanning 24 States, and introduces $23 billion annually to the 
U.S. economy. American consumers also benefit from a high-
quality, safe, reliable, and affordable source of sugar. That 
natural sugar is used as a sweetener, preservative, and bulking 
agent in 70 percent of packaged foods.
    Additionally, our industry meets some of the highest labor 
and environmental standards in the world. Through continuous 
improvement in best management practices, we have made huge 
strides in efficiency and sustainability. In fact, we have 
increased sugar production by 14 percent, using 8 percent fewer 
acres in just 20 years.
    I would like to make three points today. First, American 
farmers are threatened by less-efficient, subsidized, dumped 
foreign sugar that usually sells well below the exporter's cost 
of production. This makes the world sugar market the most 
distorted commodity market in the world. Due to existing trade 
agreements, the United States is already the third-largest 
importer of sugar, accounting for about 30 percent of the U.S. 
need.
    Yet, as global supply chain disruptions from the pandemic 
and the war in Ukraine have taught us, we must not become even 
more dependent on those foreign suppliers. This is why an 
effective sugar policy, which maintains a strong domestic 
industry, is essential to the food security of our Nation.
    Second, sugar policy is structured to operate at zero cost 
to the U.S. taxpayer. It has operated at zero cost for 19 of 
the past 20 years, and the USDA projects that it will operate 
at zero cost for the next 10. That said, the loan rates for raw 
and refined sugar have not kept up with the rising production 
costs. Operating margins for our producers are being squeezed 
due to rising input costs. For example, farmers today are 
paying 87 percent more for diesel fuel and 141 percent more for 
fertilizer than they did compared with December 2018. The 
bottom line is that the current loan rate values no longer 
provide a realistic safety net for our producers.
    Since the early 1980's, we have lost 68 processing 
facilities. The most recent closure is happening just this year 
in northeastern Montana. It is not weather or production that 
is causing these closures. It is economics. Once a facility 
closes down it does not reopen. Those communities, those 
regions, and those people face drastic changes. We would 
support examining how the farm safety net could be updated to 
better match actual operating costs for our producers.
    Third, our producers are exposed to severe weather 
disruptions, and while our farmers do have some insurance 
products available, those are not as well developed or 
affordable as they are for some other commodities. For 
sugarbeets, policies are limited to yield-based coverage, and 
they do not benefit from a revenue-based product. For 
sugarcane, the Hurricane Insurance Program has been an 
invaluable addition, but a preventive planting provision is 
needed. We would encourage the Committee to provide help to 
improve insurance coverage options.
    Additionally, our producers have participated in WHIP+ and 
ERP in the past. We are thankful that the USDA is working with 
Texas sugarcane farmers and beet farmers on disaster aid. We 
are certainly receptive to new efforts to providing standing 
disaster coverage in ways that do not undermine crop insurance.
    Sugar policy can provide an adequate safety net for 
American farmers at zero cost to the taxpayer. It is a critical 
that a strong policy remain in place to counter heavily 
subsidized and unreliable foreign suppliers whose environmental 
and labor standards simply do not measure up to our own.
    Members of the Committee, on behalf of more than the 11,000 
sugarbeet and sugarcane farmers in the United States and the 
employees of our processing facilities, I thank you for 
supporting strong U.S. sugar policy, and I welcome your 
questions.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Rockstad can be found on 
page 143 in the appendix.]

    Senator Smith. Thank you so much, Mr. Rockstad.
    Next we will hear from Ms. Baker Thompson.

STATEMENT OF KARLA BAKER THOMPSON, VICE PRESIDENT, J.E.T. FARMS 
           AND GEORGIA INTEGRITY FARMERS, CAMILLA, GA

TESTIFYING ON BEHALF OF U.S. PEANUT FEDERATION
    Ms. Thompson. Chair Smith, Ranking Member Hyde-Smith, 
members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to 
appear before you today to provide the peanut producers' 
perspective on the farm safety net.
    My name is Karla Thompson. I current farm in a family 
business with my husband and my extended family in southwest 
Georgia. We have a diversified farming operation where we grow 
peanuts, fruit, and vegetables.
    My family has been through a lot over the course of our 
time as American farmers, and the COVID-19 pandemic, in 
particular, really triggered a series of events on our farm and 
those like it. Since 2020, we have seen supply chain 
disruptions, inflation on key farm inputs, and labor shortages. 
Even prior to 2020, the peanut industry already faced 
difficulties. We had low prices due to trade issues, a reduced 
market in China, and a non-tariff trade barrier in Europe and 
in the U.K.
    In addition to the financial stress of low market prices 
and increased input costs, we have had to spend significantly 
on equipment. Peanut farming requires not only your traditional 
farming equipment but also high-cost, very specialized 
equipment that is extremely expensive to purchase and maintain.
    Dr. Stanley Fletcher of Abraham Baldwin Agricultural 
College and Professor Emeritus at the University of Georgia, 
has developed and maintained peanut representative farms from 
2000 all the way until today. We currently have 22 
representative farms spread across the country. Dr. Fletcher 
reviewed the peanut representative farms' 2021 cost of 
production compared to 2022 costs, and he found a significant 
increase. From 2021 to 2022, the total cost of production per 
ton increased by 26 percent.
    Prior to this 2021 representative farm update, the peanut 
reference price of $535 per ton did provide an effective safety 
net for growers. According to Dr. Fletcher, the reference price 
has not been a functional safety net since the 2021 crop.
    Total variable input costs have increased 33 percent from 
2021 to 2022. Where our 2021 cost of production was $546 per 
ton, Dr. Fletcher reports our 2022 cost of production at 
approximately $668 per ton.
    On our farm alone, many of our expenses have almost doubled 
since 2018. For instance, you have heard about fertilizer 
costs. Ours have absolutely skyrocketed. Supply shortages 
directly translated to pricing increases, and so our fertilizer 
expenses have as much as doubled.
    Labor costs have also been particular challenging. We 
really believe in taking care of our team, so labor costs are 
always the primary focus of our financial planning. Since 2018, 
it has become increasingly difficult to plan for and cover 
those costs.
    One of the reasons that I am really proud to be an American 
peanut farmer is because I am helping to provide nutritious 
food for consumers. Peanuts contain 19 essential vitamins and 
minerals, and they are one of the most affordable protein 
sources for consumers. In fact, not far from my farm is a 
processing facility for MANA, or MANA nutrition. MANA is a 
nonprofit organization that produces a ready-to-use therapeutic 
food made with fortified peanut paste. MANA is a great example 
of how my family and peanut growers across the country can be 
part of the solution for hunger.
    What do we need from the 2023 Farm Bill? First, the U.S. 
Peanut Federation supports an increase in the reference price. 
Growers, shellers, and buying points are unified in our support 
of the Price Loss Coverage Program as included in the 2018 Farm 
Bill, with a reference price increase.
    While the 2018 Farm Bill's Price Loss Coverage Program has 
worked for peanut growers, the rise in input costs and costs of 
production necessitates a reference price increase if this 
program is to remain relevant as a farm safety net.
    Second, the U.S. Peanut Federation supports a voluntary 
base update that includes growers with and without current 
peanut base acres.
    I would like to thank all of the Committee members for all 
of the work that you are doing on the 2023 Farm Bill. The 
importance of the farm safety net cannot be understated for my 
family's work as American farmers. I thank you for allowing me 
to testify today, and I look forward to any questions that you 
might have.

    [The prepared statement of Ms. Thompson can be found on 
page 152 in the appendix.]

    Senator Smith. Thank you so much.
    Mr. Wolle.

STATEMENT OF HAROLD WOLLE, FIRST VICE PRESIDENT, NATIONAL CORN 
                GROWERS ASSOCIATION, MADELIA, MN

    Mr. Wolle. Chair Tina Smith, Ranking Member Cindy Hyde-
Smith, members of the Committee, thank you for the invitation 
to testify today. My name is Harold Wolle. I am a family farmer 
in Medelia, Minnesota, where I am transitioning the farm to my 
son, who raises corn and soybeans. I currently serve as First 
Vice President of the National Corn Growers Association.
    Farmers across the country are busy today planting seeds 
and preparing for a strong crop and future harvest. The 
Committee's continued outreach is laying critical groundwork 
for a strong, bipartisan farm bill. Corn growers are as 
optimistic for this process as we are for this year's harvest.
    This morning I will focus my testimony on NCGA's top farm 
bill recommendations for crop insurance and the commodity 
titles. The areas of emphasis for corn growers are summarized 
in our key principles: protecting Federal crop insurance, 
strengthening the producer safety net, bolstering U.S.-
international market development efforts, and supporting 
voluntary conservation programs. Our farm bill recommendations 
seek to make USDA programs more effective and responsive 
through strategic investments and policy enhancements.
    Federal crop insurance has a proven track record of helping 
producers quickly respond to natural disasters. Corn growers 
consistently rank crop insurance as the most important program 
and title of the farm bill. We strongly oppose any efforts to 
restrict producer access to crop insurance products and oppose 
harmful program cuts that would negatively impact crop 
insurance products, their delivery, or the sound structure of 
the program.
    One area where crop insurance can be improved is the cost 
of coverage to producers. NCGA broadly supports increasing the 
affordability of crop insurance. Many corn growers purchase 
endorsement policies and higher levels of buy-up coverage, but 
for others, the individual costs of purchasing coverage can 
discourage higher levels of coverage.
    In the commodity title the Agriculture Risk Coverage, ARC, 
program, provides important countercyclical revenue coverage 
for farmers. Corn growers have identified two places to improve 
the program's effectiveness. Currently ARC county payment rates 
may not exceed 10 percent of the county benchmark revenue. This 
maximum payment rate has limited the assistance provided to 
producers.
    NCGA supports increasing the maximum rate above 10 percent 
in order to provide increased assistance to growers who 
experience significant revenue losses. For example, in 2020, 
growers across Iowa suffered major losses due to the derecho. 
The yield losses were widespread and deep enough for ARC county 
to trigger payments in multiple counties, but the program's 
effectiveness was restricted due to this limitation.
    NCGA also recommends increasing the coverage level for ARC 
county above the current 86 percent of the county revenue 
benchmark, to make the program more responsive to revenue 
losses.
    The Price Loss Coverage program, PLC, provides important 
price protection for farmers. Corn growers value having the PLC 
program as an option, particularly during periods of sustained, 
lower-than-average prices. The current statutory reference 
price for corn is $3.70 per bushel, well below current market 
prices and long-term historical averages.
    NCGA supports strengthening the effective reference price 
escalator, which allows more responsive price protection. The 
provision is capped at 115 percent of the statutory reference 
price. For corn, the escalator is capped at $4.26. For corn 
growers, the effective reference price is expected to trigger 
higher levels of price protection starting for the 2024 crop. 
NCGA supports strengthening this market-oriented mechanism by 
raising the 115 percent cap or modifying the formula to be more 
responsive to changes in market prices.
    In the trade title, NCGA supports increasing funding for 
the Market Access Program and the Foreign Market Development 
Program.
    In the conservation title, NCGA supports three initiatives 
to make the existing working lands program more effective in 
combatting weed resistance, reducing nutrient losses through 
farmer-led collaborative watershed projects, and speeding the 
development and adoption of innovative conservation practices 
by strengthening the interim conservation practice standard 
program.
    In closing, corn growers stand ready to provide additional 
feedback and support as the legislative process moves forward 
toward a successful farm bill harvest this year.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Wolle can be found on page 
165 in the appendix.]

    Senator Smith. Thank you so much to Mr. Wolle and to all of 
our panelists today. We are now going to begin a round of 
questioning from members of the Subcommittee of about five 
minutes each, and Harold, I will start back with you.
    We have heard from many of the panelists today about how 
increasingly severe weather events are having an impact on 
contributing to the additional risks that farmers are 
experiencing. I am thinking about our home State of Minnesota, 
where we just had a slew of snow this year. One of the impacts 
of all of this snow and rain is planting delays because of all 
this weather.
    Mr. Wolle, could you talk a little bit about how prevented 
planting coverage under Federal crop insurance, how this works, 
whether it is an important strategy and maybe just talk a 
little bit about the importance of flexibility around planting 
dates and acreage reporting.
    Mr. Wolle. You are absolutely correct. Prevented planting 
is a very important part of crop insurance. Several years ago, 
Minnesota was--I believe it was 2019--was affected by very wet 
soils. I am optimistic that that will not happen this year. In 
that instance when farmers were unable to get in their field, 
prevented planting provided them a level of coverage for those 
acres that they were unable to plant. That was extremely 
valuable. Flexibility around the plant dates, that would be 
appreciated.
    I think they work fairly well now, but it is a very 
important part of the crop insurance program.
    Senator Smith. Thank you so much.
    Mr. Rockstad, would you like to join in on this? I think 
you mentioned in your testimony briefly about prevented 
planting provisions for sugar.
    Mr. Rockstad. Sugarcane, specifically, is looking for a 
prevented planting option in there. Sugarbeets are a little bit 
different. We have prevented planting. However, since we are a 
farmer-owned cooperative and we need to process our sugar, we 
do everything we can, even to late dates, to make sure that 
crop is in the ground so that we can adequately supply the 
market.
    Senator Smith. Thank you very much. Another question. In 
the dozens of listening sessions that I have had with Minnesota 
farmers and ranchers and producers, I have heard a lot about 
how much they rely on FSA, local FSA offices, and also some of 
the challenges around USDA filling vacancies in those offices. 
I want to just give an opportunity to folks on the panel to 
respond to that. Is that something that you are seeing, and any 
comment that you want to make about the importance of those 
local FSA offices? Mr. Gendebien?
    Mr. Gendebien. The local FSA office is critically important 
to dairy farmers and row crop farmers in getting the word out, 
to help our cooperatives, help our board of directors, to help 
everyone get the word out on how and when to sign up. It needs 
to be within driving distance, so you can get there between 
chores.
    Senator Smith. Mr. Cheyne?
    Mr. Cheyne. Well, I think one of the key things to me as a 
producer that I would suggest to the Committee is keep the 
county committee intact. The local hand at the helm gives a 
very steadying effect. The local people know the problems, and 
we cannot expect somebody from out of the area with no 
understanding of our trials and tribulations to be able to 
assess and make the correct decision.
    Senator Smith. Right. Everybody has been saying today that 
everything is local, and one size does not fit all, and those 
FSA offices need to support that.
    Mr. Ragland, did you want to jump in here?
    Mr. Ragland. Yes. I actually serve on my local county 
committee, but sadly I have never been able to attend that in 
my own county. In my career of farming, we have never had our 
own office because we lost it several years ago. I echo the 
comments. The county committee is vitally important for that 
local touch and understanding what is going on.
    I would further echo we need to provide some help to FSA in 
getting the word out better. When we do not have an office in 
each county it is harder for some folks to truly understand the 
options that are available. We have social media now. We have 
lots of electronic ways we can get messages out, and we need to 
do more than just letters and word of mouth, and so forth.
    We also need good staffing. There is a shortage, and it is 
difficult. That goes back to money.
    Senator Smith. That is right. Thank you. Thank you so much. 
Just one last question. I am going to go back to Mr. Wolle. You 
mentioned, in your testimony, about how important the working 
land conservation programs are. Would you just maybe say a bit 
more about--my understanding is that those programs are 
dramatically oversubscribed. We have many more people who want 
to be participants than are able to. Could you just say a word 
more about why you think that is important for farmers?
    Mr. Wolle. You are absolutely correct. Our working lands 
programs are oversubscribed. On my own farm I have 200 acres of 
CRP, and it provides multiple benefits, as do the other working 
lands programs. My CRP provides wildlife habitat, wind and 
water erosion control, and it sequesters carbon, which is 
increasingly important to our society. Conservation programs, 
working lands programs are vitally important.
    Senator Smith. Thank you. I think this is not exactly the 
topic exactly of this Committee hearing, but the flexibilities 
of especially, you know, CSP and EQIP to meet the needs that 
farmers have on the ground I think is a real value, so thank 
you.
    Senator Hyde-Smith.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you very much. I am going to 
direct my first question to Mr. Johnson. You farm cotton and 
other row crops in the fertile Mississippi Delta, but many who 
are not so familiar with growing cotton in the Southeast may 
think that people like you just have it made in the shade, 
which could not be further from the truth, because raising 
cotton is hard, it costs a lot of money, and the risks that you 
take, year in and year out, should make anyone nervous.
    Based on your testimony, in meetings with many farmers from 
Mississippi and others from across the country over the past 
year, I get the impression that U.S. ag producers feel strongly 
that Congress should increase reference prices for the price 
loss coverage program commodities in the next farm bill. Would 
you please elaborate on the need for Congress to raise 
reference prices and also share some of the personal challenges 
that you have faced in recent years with respect to inflation, 
the rising cost of production, and weed and pest threats that 
Southern producers face?
    Mr. Johnson. Sure. I appreciate those comments and the 
question. You know, if we look back over the past several 
years, we have seen a dramatic increase in cost of production, 
in the neighborhood of $160 an acre, which that could vary 
depending on where you are. It puts our production cost nearly 
48 cents per pound of seed cotton, and the reference price is 
36.7 cents per pound. You have a really wide gap where you 
could enter into a prolonged period where production costs are 
higher than what the market provides but there is still no 
support provided by the PLC payment with the current reference 
price.
    We do feel like that is critical. The challenges that we 
face in the field, where cotton grows well a lot of other 
things thrive, and it is labor intensive and capital intensive. 
It is a challenging crop to grow, and certainly we depend on 
having the support of adequate PLC reference price.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you very much for that.
    Mr. Hillman, it is challenging and expensive to grow cotton 
in the South, but I do not know which one is more difficult or 
more expensive, is cotton or rice. Both of them are truly a 
challenge.
    Is it true that it could cost you well over $1,000 per acre 
to grow rice in Arkansas, that the cost to produce one acre of 
rice could cost you perhaps even $1,500?
    Mr. Hillman. Senator, thank you for the question, and right 
now the costs are out of control. Certainly fertilizer, a lot 
of the inputs that rice and cotton have, have exceeded 
anybody's guess. A lot of that depends certainly on input 
costs. Labor cost is extremely high.
    Also, when you talk about the difference between cotton, 
and a lot of the cotton is irrigated, but rice is an aquatic 
crop, and it requires a lot of water. We recapture that water, 
recycle that water and very sustainable, but the cost of the 
water can grow ever exceedingly through the year, and the cost 
of diesel fuel or electricity to run those pumps can run the 
cost up even higher than what we have talked about.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Could you share for the Subcommittee 
some of the financial risks and challenges that you face on an 
annual basis to justify the need for strengthening our support 
programs for Title I?
    Mr. Hillman. I am going to give you a complicated answer to 
a simple question. Certainly, when we talk about rice, and 
specifically in our area, with irrigated crops, crop insurance 
is one of our tools in the box. Certainly my fellow farmers 
here at the table, we need good crop insurance.
    Title I, and specifically PLC, is a bigger tool for me, and 
bigger tool for my fellow rice farmers not only in Arkansas but 
across our Nation. That is for two reasons. I mentioned 
irrigation. As far as a drought coming and affecting our crop, 
more than likely it will not, but it will affect my bottom line 
if I have to irrigate during a terribly dry season.
    The second reason is--and I alluded to it in my testimony--
rice farmers across the United States are some of the best on 
the face of this Earth. We can compete against any other 
farmers across the globe. What we cannot compete against is 
foreign governments that step in. Sometimes those governments 
are not truly allies of the United States. When those 
governments step in, I need a safety net that is above ground 
level, and those two reasons are why the PLC is really one of 
my strongest tools that I have.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Well put, and I am out of time.
    Senator Smith. Thank you. Senator Stabenow.
    Senator Stabenow. Well, thank you very much, Madam Chair, 
and to all of you, I know it is not easy, the beginning of May, 
to leave your operations and come here for a couple of days. We 
very much appreciate your perspective. That is how we work hard 
to get it right. We know we are always in a continuous 
improvement mode to be able to support our farmers and 
ranchers, so we really appreciate your perspective.
    I note that Mr. Ragland, with the soybean perspective, as 
well as others that you pointed out in testimony the critical 
importance of our conservation program, and all of you have 
talked about how the need has exceeded what we have been able 
to do to support growers. Our programs have been 
oversubscribed. I think that highlights the importance of the 
recent conservation investments. Hopefully we will be much 
better able to meet needs in this area of risk management, and 
I think that is good news.
    I think it is also important to remind ourselves again that 
there is no consensus on how to address all of the programs, 
because different regions have different responses. This is 
always the challenge of the farm bill. I tell folks it is less 
a partisan exercise and more of a regional exercise, based on 
what you grow, where you are. Our challenge is always bringing 
together all those needs to address the South, the North, the 
Midwest, and so on.
    That really is our challenge, and I think that also means 
that it is not one size fits all for the commodity title or 
crop insurance, just like every other part of the farm bill. We 
need to be listening closely.
    I did want to say, though, before asking a question, I 
think it is important to acknowledge some good news. You have 
been through so much that there are recent reports from the 
Kansas City Federal Reserve and the U.S. Department of Energy 
that despite 2022, which was horrible input costs, that prices 
for several major inputs have actually dropped in 2023. 
Hopefully you are experiencing that or are going to experience 
that.
    We know the Administration's strong response to Russia's 
invasion of Ukraine has really contributed to stabilizing the 
markets around fertilizer and diesel fuel. I am hopeful you 
will feel what we are hearing in the reports of diesel fuel 
being down 25 percent from last year, and projected to go down, 
and fertilizer prices down 35 percent from last year. We are 
going to watch it closely because hopefully 2022 was an 
anomaly, and when we look over 10 years, hopefully this is just 
something that happened because of a number of bad 
circumstances coming together and not a trend. We are certainly 
going to follow it closely and hope that these new numbers 
reflect some support for all of you.
    Mr. Ackerman, I did want to ask, as a diversified farmer, 
if you could talk a little bit more about crop insurance on 
your operation. I know you have talked about this. Others have 
talked about how important it is. Talk more about the 
recommendations for us to enhance the risk management options 
available for the commodities you grow and why it is important 
we focus on this.
    Mr. Ackerman. Thank you for that question, Senator. On our 
farm we buy crop insurance and we pray we do not need it, 
right? I think all growers are in the same boat. Because if you 
have to rely on crop insurance, really, you can never make 
money on crop insurance. It basically keeps you in business, 
right? For dry beans, in particular, they are not covered 
anywhere else other than crop insurance, other than if we have 
a complete disaster, then ad hoc kicks in.
    I think the highest we can by is 85 percent. Eighty-5 
percent crop insurance is going to cost us about $40 an acre, I 
think, or $45 an acre. It gets to be pretty high. I would say 
most growers buy in that 70 percent range. Remember, when you 
buy at 70 percent, you have got to take a 30 percent hit before 
it even starts kicking in, and that is where all your higher 
end is.
    In all commodities you have to make that decision, but we 
try not to over-insure, just because it typically does not make 
sense for us. We do need that in place. I mean, it is very 
important for us because we, as dry bean growers, have no other 
option.
    Senator Stabenow. Thank you. I always tell folks that 
criticize crop insurance that you are not getting a payout 
unless you have a loss. This is insurance, and it is very, very 
important.
    One final question, Mr. Ragland and Mr. Wolle, you talked 
about enhancing the Agricultural Risk Coverage program that we 
developed, the ARC program, and of course we know it was 
designed to address shallow losses, and it really moves with 
the market different than PLC. I wondered if you might just, 
given where we are with budget constraints and where commodity 
prices are now, can you talk about the most important 
improvements we could make when considering the ARC program. 
Mr. Ragland?
    Mr. Ragland. Specifically within the ARC program we just 
need to see higher coverage levels that reflect the 
inflationary cost of our inputs and cost of production, and 
then taking a look where we can with what the cap is as well. I 
realize it is designed for shallow losses, but as we look at 
the inflationary cost, our farm gate receipts are up too, but 
that is inflationary as well. We need to look at an expansion 
of the cap along with that, just to reflect what has changed in 
the whole picture.
    Senator Stabenow. Thank you very much. Mr. Wolle?
    Mr. Wolle. As I said in my testimony, expansion of that 10 
percent cap, as in my example in Iowa, when those producers 
qualified for the program their losses were far more than what 
that 10 percent was. The 10 percent is the limiting factor, in 
addition to the 86 percent payment rate. The combination of the 
two really limits the effectiveness of the program when it is 
trying to compensate for some of those disastrous losses.
    Senator Stabenow. Thanks very much. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Senator Smith. Thank you, Senator Stabenow.
    Senator Boozman.
    Senator Boozman.
    [Inaudible.]
    Senator Smith. Senator Tuberville.
    Senator Tuberville. Well thank you very much. Thanks for 
being here today. My producers in Alabama--and we are not going 
to beat a dead horse here--are very concerned, obviously, about 
crop insurance and update reference prices.
    Mr. Johnson, during 2022, in Alabama, there were over 
221,000 acres enrolled in PLC, and nearly 100,000 acres 
enrolled in STAX. Due to eligibility limitations, only 23 
percent of my producers were enrolled in STAX. If producers 
were permitted to enroll in ARC or PLC plus STAX, instead of 
having to choose, do you think there would be significant 
increase in STAX participation?
    Mr. Johnson. Thank you for that question. The short answer 
is yes. Before 2018, cotton was not a covered commodity. We had 
the STAX program, which is an area-wide revenue insurance 
program, and that works well. You know, there have been years 
when I have purchased that, some years when I have not 
purchased that. When seed cotton was added in 2018, there was a 
prohibition of participating in STAX and ARC/PLC at the same 
time. It would definitely be helpful if we could remove that 
and give growers the flexibility to participate in both.
    Senator Tuberville. Thank you.
    Ms. Thompson, in my home State, over 558.9 million pounds 
of peanuts are produced annually. If the peanut reference price 
is too low and the cost of production is approximately $668 per 
ton, why are some growers signing contracts for less than $600 
per ton?
    Ms. Thompson. Thank you for that question. Let me grab my 
notes here and I will run through that with you. There are a 
few reasons why. One of the reasons why is our crop rotation. 
Crop rotation is vitally important for the health of our land, 
and so a lot of our planting decisions are governed by that. We 
may have to sign a contract for peanuts at a certain price that 
we do not like in order to protect the health of our land, 
because that is what we need to grow that year.
    We have some farmers that may need to take an operating 
loan to farm that year, and the bank will require a contract 
before giving us the loan, so there is not a lot of negotiating 
power there.
    Then a lot of us just hope that high yields are going to 
offset low prices. Of course, that does not always happen.
    Finally, there are a lot of members, like myself, that are 
members of grower-owned shelling co-ops, and we receive the 
loan value of the peanuts at harvest, and we are hoping to 
capture a profit on the peanuts as they are shelled and sold to 
manufacturers later on.
    Senator Tuberville. Thank you. Mr. Johnson, America's 
cotton producers export over 80 percent of U.S.-grown cotton. 
Yet the marketing assistance loan rate has not been increased 
in over 20 years. I have been hearing a lot about this. Could 
you explain how changes to the loan repayment rate calculation 
would allow cotton to move more efficiently through markets?
    Mr. Johnson. Sure. First, the fact that the payment rate 
has not changed in such a long time, really, we would like to 
see that raised a little bit, even though it is nowhere close 
to production costs, that would be helpful from a cash-flow 
standpoint.
    The other provisions that we are suggesting, in regard to 
the marketing loan, really create a little more value for the 
producer when prices fall below the loan price and ensure that 
cotton moves smoothly and efficiently through the supply chain 
and that we do not give any incentive for cotton to stagnate in 
the loan. That is the goal of the changes that we are proposing 
there.
    Senator Tuberville. Anybody else like to chime in on that? 
No volunteers?
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Smith. Thank you, Senator Tuberville.
    Next, Senator Gillibrand.
    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Mr. 
Gendebien, in your testimony you referenced the asymmetric risk 
facing producers under the existing Class I mover formula. Will 
you talk a little bit more about this?
    Mr. Gendebien. Yes. The new mover was well intended, but it 
has a ceiling of 74 cents when Class III and IV are identical. 
What we would like to do--but it has no floor, so it really 
causes a problem, and in 2020 and in 2022, the divergence in 
III and IV cost the farmers about $900 million. Really, we 
would like to go back to the original higher of, which would 
eliminate those massive losses.
    Senator Gillibrand. Yes, I could not agree more. In your 
testimony you also discussed the mental health and stress 
hardships faced by members in our rural community. I am 
actively working on legislation to make mental health resources 
more widely available to our farming, ranching, and rural 
communities. My legislation would aim to expand beyond the 
regional scope of the Farm and Ranch Stress Assistance Network 
to create a national hotline.
    Would a national hotline for distressed farmers and 
ranchers help us start to address this complicated problem?
    Mr. Gendebien. Yes, I believe it would. We need to reduce 
the stigma around mental health. All of us here are under a lot 
of stress. Some of us are seventh-generation farmers, and when 
things are going tough, who wants to be the farmer after seven 
generations that could not make it? There is an incredible 
amount of weight on our shoulders, and depression is a real 
thing. We need to talk about it, and we need to have resources 
to help us get through it.
    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you. I have been working on 
legislation, particularly the Dairy Pricing Opportunity Act, to 
return to the higher of for Class I pricing. Can you please 
talk about how returning to the higher of would help you?
    Mr. Gendebien. Returning to the higher of would have 
increased my pay price over 2020 and 2022, and it would have 
reduced the need for special payments or unique payments to 
farmers, which we are very grateful for, but we do not want to 
ask for millions of dollars every time Class III and IV 
diverge. It just does not need to be that way. It would 
stabilize my milk price.
    Senator Gillibrand. Can you also talk a little bit about 
how the disruption in our supply chains over the last few years 
has affected your business, and any recommendations you would 
have to this Committee about hardening our supply chains or 
improving our supply chain infrastructure?
    Mr. Gendebien. Okay. I do have to comment that the supply 
chains are resilient in agriculture, and I am so impressed 
because we all work so hard to do the right thing. However, I 
saw it more at the cooperative level, trying to find film for 
wrapping our cheese and supplies for getting our product to 
market. That is where it really struck home. It increased cost 
to our cooperative, and therefore reduced payments to members 
and increased costs to members of our co-op. Supply chain 
management is absolutely critical. It would be a national 
security issue, and it would help our farms locally.
    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
    Senator Stabenow. [Presiding.] Thank you very much. In the 
absence of our Chair and Ranking Member of the Subcommittee, 
who have both gone to vote and will be coming right back, but I 
will turn to our Ranking Member of the full Committee, Senator 
Boozman.
    Senator Boozman. Thank you, Madam Chair, as always. Again, 
we so appreciate you being here. This has been a great hearing. 
I apologize for running out. We all have like three or four 
important hearings going on, and that is why you are seeing the 
coming and the going.
    One of the things I feel very strongly about, and I think 
the first panel, you know, also came forward with this, is that 
the world is very different now than it was five years ago when 
we wrote the last farm bill. Things were very stable then. Now 
the world is very different than it was two or three years ago.
    We need to make sure that the risk management tools that 
you use--and you have a variety of risk management tools, all 
of you, they are all different--but making sure that those are 
updated so that you can be in a situation where you can go 
forward for the next five years. To me it does not make any 
sense--a lot of this data goes back to 2012. The world is truly 
very different now than it was then. Again, trying to forecast, 
you know, going up and down. The escalators do go up and down. 
To me this is just a fundamental thing.
    The other thing that is fundamental is making sure that as 
we go forward with these programs that you are not mandated by 
certain practices in order to participate. Okay? Does anybody 
disagree with that, on the panel? Yes.
    Mr. Carson. I certainly do not disagree. We keep talking 
about our reference and our loan prices being out of date, and 
I know it takes a tremendous amount of money to get those where 
they need to be. We keep calling them a safety net, and I am 
not sure when that net is 2 inches above the concrete that it 
is doing the American farmer a lot of good. I do not have the 
answer, but I think that they are so far out of touch.
    We have talked about bringing young farmers in and 
incentivizing new farmers. With the loan and reference prices 
where they are, it does not give a beginning farmer or an 
underserved farmer stability from the lender, from their 
supplier. They are just so out of touch.
    Another thing that we have all constantly addressed is the 
RMA issue and how vital crop insurance is. I kind of have a 
unique perspective where I am at. I have experienced four years 
of a drought. I have dealt more with crop insurance in the last 
four or five years than I have the 30 previous. While I would 
not be sitting here today if it was not in place, one 
shortcoming I have found is that I cannot insure myself out of 
a disaster. Every year I have a disaster my APHs are lowered, 
my costs are increased. Can we buy coverage? Yes, but if those 
APHs drop I am almost paying $1 for $1.01 of coverage.
    There are some shortcomings in our RMA system that can 
definitely be improved, even though all of us have thought 
adamantly that we would not be here today without those. With 
our budget restrictions and what you are trying to do to 
balance with the Administration in a bipartisan, bicameral bill 
that we need desperately, we have got to find funding. I do not 
think there are enough creative ways to bring our reference and 
our loan prices up and shore up our RMA insurance without 
additional funding.
    Senator Boozman. Very good. Anybody else want to comment? 
Yes, sir--especially as a young farmer.
    Mr. Ragland. Thank you. My comments would be regarding 
soybeans. Our current reference price is $8.40. I looked 
yesterday at the close, November soybeans for the crop that we 
are planting now, we are at $12.75 on futures. The University 
of Illinois says the average cost of production is $12.53 for 
the 2023 crop. We are looking at roughly 66, 67 percent of the 
reference price compared what it actually costs to produce the 
crop, and that is a wide gap.
    I would also bring to light that the Black Swan events as 
farmers that we have no control over have a huge bearing on our 
prices. We have weather risks, and we also have all the risk of 
economic situations that we cannot control, and crop insurance 
is a vital tool for both.
    As a young farmer, I could not function without a strong 
crop insurance program and strong Title I as well.
    Senator Boozman. Very good. Anybody else? Oops, I am out of 
time. The Chairwoman will yell at me, so I will yield back.
    Senator Stabenow. Thank you. Before turning to Senator 
Warnock I did just want to underscore something, Mr. Carson. 
You said you cannot insure your way out of a disaster. That is 
why it is so important that we be supporting these efforts to 
deal with the disasters, which means stopping the pollution 
going in the air, and that is why farmers and ranchers are so 
critical in all of this. That is why we have additional money 
that has been put into ways that you can keep carbon in the 
soil instead of having it going into the atmosphere and 
creating all these storms and so on.
    That is the reason we have been focused on that.
    Mr. Carson. Thank you for those comments. I truly believe 
in my heart that the farm bill is not for farmers. It is for 
the hungry children and the underserved, that our U.S. 
population has a safe and steady supply of food. We have got to 
work hand in hand. The farm bill is not for the farmers. It is 
for the American population.
    Senator Stabenow. For the country. It is for our national 
security, for a lot of things.
    Thank you. Senator Warnock.
    Senator Warnock. Thank you so very much, Madam Chair. 
Georgia accounts for almost half of the peanuts produced 
annually in the United States. We are proud of that. That is 
more than two billion pounds a year. Producers of peanuts and 
other designated crops are eligible for the Marketing 
Assistance Loan Program. This program provides interim 
financing to producers so that commodities can be stored after 
the harvest, when market prices are typically low, and then 
sold later on when the market picks back up. If the producers 
are not able to sell their crops at that higher price, they 
have to forfeit their crops as collateral. The stakes are 
always high for this program working right.
    Mrs. Thompson, does this happen to peanut farmers often, 
and are we seeing a lot of peanut crop forfeitures?
    Ms. Thompson. No. Historically, forfeitures have been very 
low. They are typically under five percent, and just to run 
through the past few years, in 2017 and 2018, they were around 
three percent, but those years' crops had some unusual 
production and quality issues. Then in 2019, there were zero 
forfeitures, in 2020, it was 0.17 percent. In 2021, as of 
January of this year, there have not been any forfeitures on 
record. That is the last data that we have.
    Senator Warnock. Thank you. I take that to mean that this 
is evidence that the Marketing Assistance Loan Program is 
working well for peanut farmers.
    Ms. Thompson. Yes.
    Senator Warnock. That is good to hear, which is why I look 
forward to supporting this program in this year's farm bill. 
nationwide, the cotton industry employs over 115,000 people, 
and it contributes more than $22 billion to the United States 
economy. Cotton is also a major economic driver in Georgia, 
with an estimated overall economic impact of $3 billion. The 
2018 Farm Bill originally authorized the Economic Adjustment 
Assistance for Textile Mills program. Currently, EAATM provides 
3 cents per pound of cotton to domestic cotton mills for 
capital improvements like new technology and equipment to help 
keep them competitive with foreign mills.
    Mr. Johnson, has this program provided stability, in your 
estimation, for the domestic cotton industry, and if so, can 
you talk about how that has happened?
    Mr. Johnson. Yes. Thank you for that question. We do feel 
like that has been a very successful program. If you look back 
prior to 2008, the U.S. textile industry struggled for decades, 
and that has stabilized since that program was instituted in 
2008.
    There is a great example of the success of that program in 
your home State. One of the most technologically advanced 
textile mills in America is in Rabun Gap, Georgia, and the 
funds that are provided through that program allow mills to 
update their technology and equipment and make them more 
efficient. It has been very successful, and we would love to 
see the full payment rate of 4 cents restored to continue that 
success.
    Senator Warnock. Yes, I am glad you brought that up because 
it is something, as you pointed out, that has created 
stability, and yet we did see that reduction in the 2012 Farm 
Bill. How do you think restoring that rate to 4 cents per 
pound, how would that affect the U.S. cotton industry?
    Mr. Johnson. Well, the textile industry is such an 
important industry for national security. I think that just 
bringing that payment rate back up to 4 cents would allow more 
efficiency, make the U.S. textile industry more competitive, 
and that is the goal. It is great to be able to take the cotton 
that is grown here in the U.S. and see it used in manufacturing 
here.
    Senator Warnock. There is no question that these mills are 
major economic drivers in the State of Georgia. You see it up 
close in rural towns like Jefferson and Rabun Gap, and this 
program is vital to ensuring that these mills can remain 
competitive globally, and that they can keep their doors open. 
I hope we can revisit that rate in this year's farm bill. I 
certainly will be doing everything I can to see to it that that 
happens.
    Mr. Johnson. Thank you.
    Senator Warnock. Thank you so much.
    Senator Smith. [Presiding.] Thank you, Senator Warnock. I 
believe that Senator Hyde-Smith is deferring to Senator 
Fetterman, because I believe he needs to go someplace. Senator 
Fetterman, you may go forth.
    Senator Fetterman. Thank you so much.
    Mr. Ragland, I appreciate the work that all generations of 
farmers do to help feed the world. I have a particular concern 
of young and beginning farmers we have in agriculture. Would 
you be?
    Mr. Ragland. Yes, Senator Fetterman. Thanks. Thanks for the 
comment and the concern. As a somewhat young farmer still--I am 
quickly departing from that, sadly--it is getting increasingly 
hard to establish roots as a farmer, due to constraints with 
land availability and availability of funding. There is more 
risk and there are higher stakes than there has ever been. It 
is difficult.
    One comment I would make along those lines, Farm Service 
Agency has some great programs through loans that are very 
helpful to young farmers. One thing I would encourage with 
that, based on personal experience and hearing from others, we 
need to make sure those loan programs work in a way that is 
effective and timely for our producers.
    One of the biggest obstacles I see there is how long it 
takes to get operating loans approved, how long it takes to get 
land deals done. Sometimes if a farm comes up for sale, you 
have got a matter of days or hours to get it done, and some of 
these loans can drag out for months. I had one that took 14 
months a few years ago. These programs are well intentioned, 
but we need to make sure we are efficiently rolling them out so 
that young farmers can take the opportunities that they do 
have.
    Senator Fetterman. Yes. As a young farmer, would greater 
access to the farm safety net be really significant for you?
    Mr. Ragland. I think that it is important not only for 
young farmers but for all farmers that we have a stronger 
safety net. The risk, as I mentioned, is greater than it has 
ever been, and our lenders have to have the confidence that 
there is a reasonable chance they are going to get repaid. As I 
mentioned with references prices needing to increase, in 
particular with base acre updates, the combination of all these 
things is really a cumulative effect. We need to look at all 
these things and together they will make a significant impact 
on the future for young farmers, in particular.
    Senator Fetterman. Do you have any thoughts or ideas to how 
you can encourage more young people to go into farming?
    Mr. Ragland. Well, I think that folks need to see that 
there is opportunity. There needs to be a path forward, and I 
think these things I have mentioned--making the loan programs 
better, having greater tools for risk management--create those 
opportunities.
    I see a bright future for agriculture. I see a lot of 
bright folks that are willing to enter the industry. I do not 
see a crisis of a lack of folks interested. We need to make 
sure that they have the resources at their disposal in order to 
be effective when they do enter the agriculture industry.
    Senator Fetterman. Thank you.
    Mr. Gendebien, I know that the dairy industry continues to 
evolve, and I am sure you are familiar with what a dairy State 
we are, in Pennsylvania. It is important that the farm bill 
keep up pace with the needs of small farmers. Do you believe 
that is accurate?
    Mr. Gendebien. I do. I do. In southeastern Pennsylvania, 
Lancaster County is one of the largest dairy counties in the 
Nation, and it is comprised of mainly small, successful family 
dairies. It is very important that the farm bill helps both 
large and small producers, because we need them both.
    Senator Fetterman. It would be very important to have those 
dairy safety networks for all of them. What can we do to stop 
the trend of losing small dairy farms?
    Mr. Gendebien. I think it is very important that we stand 
behind the DMC. That is a program that works. A modest increase 
in that program would be very beneficial. Also helping farmers 
understand Dairy Revenue Protection, because that is a terrific 
program as well, and that is for large and small producers. 
Sometimes small producers do not have the time to wrap their 
arms around these programs, so we need to make them easy, and 
we need to make sure that they understand how they work.
    Senator Fetterman. Thank you.
    Senator Smith. Thank you, Senator Fetterman.
    Senator Hyde-Smith.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you so much. Mr. Hillman, we need 
to protect our small farmers, our large farmers, and every 
farmer in between. As we have discussed, it can be rather 
expensive to put a crop in the ground these days, especially on 
a large scale, say a couple of thousand acres or more. Will you 
please provide the Subcommittee with some rough numbers of the 
financial risks so many U.S. farmers take every year?
    Mr. Hillman. Thank you, Senator. I think, and I alluded to 
some in my testimony earlier, economies of scale right now are 
such that, just for instance, the piece of equipment that I was 
referring to, the combine that I purchased in 1986 versus 
today, seven-fold. I think that when we talk about farming and 
taking on that risk, economies of scale are there not only just 
with the equipment but also the interest rates that we have 
today right now, all of the inputs, also with labor.
    When you talk about costs per acre, going back to my early 
career, some of the costs per acre for rice or soybeans or corn 
are approaching what land was going for back in the late 
1980's. The risk involved of going out there when you have the 
economies of scale of having to farm more, certainly that does 
help defray some of those costs, but it also increases the 
risks that these family farmers are taking.
    It is a tug-of-war when we talk about the economies that we 
are dealing with and the numbers that we are playing with right 
now.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Okay. I have got a few more minutes. 
Mr. Ragland, you lived and farmed through very real economic 
challenges when China, as your largest export market, was 
cutoff for a period of time. Economic disruptions have hit the 
various forms during the life of the current farm bill and 
could continue to do so in the future.
    As a farmer, how do you view keeping up with status quo 
Title I farm safety net?
    Mr. Ragland. Well, as we have alluded to earlier, we need 
an increase in our reference prices. We need the opportunity 
for a voluntary base update as well. Many farmers like myself 
have a very small percentage of their cropped acres that have 
base, and that impacts ARC and PLC programs, which are the 
backbone of Title I.
    It is difficult with budget constraints, but to reflect the 
increases in our costs of production we truly need a 
significant increase in all facets of the reference prices and 
bases, just so we can be competitive and have reasonable 
disaster assistance and risk management within that Title I.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Okay. Mr. Johnson, will you please 
provide the Subcommittee with some rough financial numbers that 
you have experienced and the risks that farmers take every 
year? Can you give us some examples of that?
    Mr. Johnson. Well, I think a lot of my comments would be 
similar to Mr. Hillman's. We are not too far apart, and cotton 
and rice are not too far apart when you think about cost of 
production. When you think about farming efficiently, he 
brought up the combine example. A cotton harvester right now, 
the cost for that approaches $1 million, and you really need 
close to 2,000 acres to justify making that purchase. When we 
look at fuel, labor, our seed and crop protection, that is how 
we end up in that 90 to $1-a-pound rate for our cost of 
production.
    We are just under a lot of pressure to be efficient. I 
mean, the only way you address that is by becoming more 
efficient and improving your practices and making more yield 
with less, and to this point that is what we are trying to do. 
We need these support programs to be more effective in the 
current environment than they are right now.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you so much.
    Senator Smith. Thank you. Senator Welch.
    Senator Welch. Thank you very much, and I appreciate----
    Senator Smith. Happy birthday, Senator Welch. I cannot miss 
the opportunity.
    Senator Welch. Well, I appreciate that. That is a kind 
memory of the Spirit of 76. That is my age.
    You know, sir, what you just said is really the dilemma 
that I feel about farming. There is an enormous pressure on you 
to be, quote, ``efficient.'' That gets translated into being 
big. That puts enormous pressure on small family farmers.
    What I have always wrestled with, and I think a lot of us 
on this Committee have wrestled with, is we have an enormous 
appreciation for small local agriculture because it does so 
much for the people who live in that area, not just the farmers 
but all of us in Vermont, for instance, benefit immensely by 
the custodians of the landscape, which by and large are our 
dairy farmers. Yet the needs you have, because of those costs, 
really gobble up the smaller farms.
    You know, this is the central dilemma, Madam Chair and 
Ranking Member, that I think we face. How do we maintain local 
agriculture, small family agriculture, for the values that it 
represents, not just out of sentiment but it is about local 
environment, it is about the local economy, it is about values 
that are so embedded in that farm family culture, when they are 
getting totally pressured by the demands to be, quote, 
``efficient,'' which really means big. That is the needle 
somehow we have to thread.
    In Vermont, dairy has been our backbone in terms of playing 
that role historically, and it is under immense pressure. The 
Dairy Margin Program has been really helpful, but despite it 
about 60 percent of our farms we have lost in the last 30 
years.
    I just want to ask a little bit about the Dairy Margin 
Program. Mr. Gendebien, I share the concerns that Senator 
Fetterman was speaking about and also Senator Gillibrand, of 
course, represents all of New York but upper State New York, 
across Lake Champlain, very similar farming situation to what 
we have in Vermont.
    Let me just ask, as a Northeast dairy farmer during the 
pandemic, how did the Dairy Margin Coverage Program help? That 
is for Mr. Gendebien.
    Mr. Gendebien. It helped a great deal. It is very important 
for the smaller farmers, but what is happening, Senator Welch, 
is the definition of a small farm is changing. It is not 75 
cows anymore. It is 500 to 800. DMC program could be modestly 
enhanced so that that bottom Tier 1 is increased above five 
million pounds. That would really, really help.
    These farms are still family farms. Margins are tight for 
everybody. I understand exactly what you are saying, where the 
margin per unit, per 100 pounds of milk sold, is so small, it 
is so slim that some of these farmers cannot even afford 
liability insurance. Then to expect them to buy Dairy Revenue 
Protection, they are not going to do that either.
    So DMC, Dairy Revenue Protection, they are very important 
programs. We just need to make them more accessible to more 
people.
    Senator Welch. By the way, one of the other issues is the 
cost side, because obviously the margin is a function of what 
the price is and what the cost is. Of course, there is a great 
deal of concern about climate issues, and I think, on this 
Committee, a real desire to find ways to make it possible for 
the agricultural community to make the significant contribution 
of reducing carbon emission, and anaerobic digesters is just an 
example of being installed on a farm where I am.
    Does that approach have some promise that would be 
beneficial to the survival and prosperity of our small dairy 
farms?
    Mr. Gendebien. I believe it does. These renewable natural 
gas digesters are fantastic technology, and a community 
digester, where we could share would be very, very important 
for smaller farmers, absolutely.
    Senator Welch. Which it also would help with the runoff 
issue that is a problem.
    Mr. Gendebien. It would. Farmers, we want to participate in 
every single sustainability program. It is just that sometimes 
the cost outweighs the benefit.
    Senator Welch. Right. Thank you very much. I yield back, 
and thank you, Madam Chair.
    Senator Smith. Thank you so much, Senator Welch.
    I believe we have no further questions from this panel so I 
would like to just thank all of our witnesses again for your 
time and attention and your excellent testimony. We often say, 
on the Agriculture Committee, that we are less partisan than 
some other spaces in Washington. We certainly have our regional 
differences, but the purpose of this particular hearing is to 
really fully flesh out what all of the differences are. As 
Senator Boozman said, people farm in the concrete, not the 
abstract, and it is very important to understand how all of 
those differences come into play, particular with these risk 
management tools.
    I want to thank very much Senator Hyde-Smith and our staff, 
including the full Committee staff, for making this Committee 
hearing work so well.
    For Senators who wish to submit questions for the record, 
those questions are due one week from today, which will be 
Tuesday, May 9th. For our witnesses, you will have two weeks to 
respond to any questions for the record.
    Thank you again, and with that this hearing is adjourned.

    [Whereupon, at 12:14 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

      
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