[Senate Hearing 118-19]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]






                                



                                                         S. Hrg. 118-19
 
   U.S. ARMY CORPS BUDGET 2024 AND IMPLEMENTATION OF WATER RESOURCES 
                        DEVELOPMENT ACT OF 2022

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                              MAY 3, 2023

                               __________

  Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works
  
  [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

  
  
  


        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
        
        
        
           U. S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
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               COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
                             FIRST SESSION

                  THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware, Chairman
          SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia, Ranking Member

BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland         KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont             CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island     MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma
JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon                 PETE RICKETTS, Nebraska
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts      JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan            ROGER WICKER, Mississippi
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska
ALEX PADILLA, California             LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina
JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania

               Courtney Taylor, Democratic Staff Director
               Adam Tomlinson, Republican Staff Director
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

                              MAY 3, 2023
                           OPENING STATEMENTS

Carper, Hon. Thomas R., U.S. Senator from the State of Delaware..     1
Capito, Hon. Shelley Moore, U.S. Senator from the State of West 
  Virginia.......................................................     3

                               WITNESSES

Conner, Hon. Michael L., Assistant Secretary, Army, for Civil 
  Works..........................................................     5
    Prepared statement...........................................     8
    Responses to additional questions from:
        Senator Carper...........................................    18
        Senator Whitehouse.......................................    19
        Senator Fetterman........................................    20
        Senator Ricketts.........................................    21
        Senator Sullivan.........................................    24
Spellmon, Lieutenant General Scott A., 55th Chief of Engineers 
  and Commanding General, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers...........    26
    Prepared statement...........................................    29
    Responses to additional questions from:
        Senator Carper...........................................    33
        Senator Graham...........................................    36


   U.S. ARMY CORPS BUDGET 2024 AND IMPLEMENTATION OF WATER RESOURCES 
                        DEVELOPMENT ACT OF 2022

                              ----------                              


                         WEDNESDAY, MAY 3, 2023

                                       U.S. Senate,
                 Committee on Environment and Public Works,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:01 a.m. in 
room 406, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Thomas R. Carper 
(chairman of the committee) presiding.
    Present: Senators Carper, Capito, Cardin, Markey, Stabenow, 
Kelly, Padilla, Fetterman, Cramer, Boozman, Wicker, Sullivan, 
Mullin, Ricketts.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS R. CARPER, 
            U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF DELAWARE

    Senator Carper. Good morning, everybody. I am pleased to 
call this hearing to order.
    Today, we have gathered to examine the U.S. Army Corps of 
Engineers' budget request for Fiscal Year 2024 as well as the 
implementation of the recently passed Water Resources 
Development Act, affectionately known as WRDA 2022.
    This year, the President has proposed a budget of $7.4 
billion for the Army Corps of Engineers, $7.4 billion for this 
year. While that is larger than any other budget request for 
the Corps to date, the President's proposal is still less than 
the $8.7 billion that Congress provided in annual spending last 
year.
    To help us unpack the request and understand the Corps' 
implementation of WRDA 2022, we are pleased to welcome our 
witnesses. Assistant Secretary Connor, welcome, good to see 
you, and General Spellmon. General, Navy salutes Army. Thank 
you both for joining us and for your ongoing service to our 
Nation.
    The Corps' work is fundamental to keeping our economy 
moving forward. As you may recall, the Corps manages our 
Nation's ports and waterways, restores our ecosystems, which 
are critical to fisheries, to tourism, to recreation, and 
advances flood management solutions to protect communities from 
coast to coast. In fact, 99 percent of our overseas trade goes 
through channels that the Corps helps to maintain. Let me 
repeat that: 99 percent of our overseas trade goes through 
channels that the Army Corps of Engineers helps to maintain.
    As the largest manager of our Nation's water 
infrastructure, the Corps also plays a critical role in job 
creation and job retention. In addition to employing nearly 
37,000 civilian and military personnel, the agency's work spurs 
economic growth across our Country to the tune of more than $50 
billion annually. With that in mind, I am sure that a number of 
our members will have some specific projects in their States 
that they want to ask both of you about today.
    The Corps has certainly been a vital partner in many parts 
of our economy in the first State of Delaware. In addition to 
delivering nearly $300 million in essential project funding for 
Delaware this year alone, the Corps recently approved permits 
to allow for an expansion of the Port of Wilmington. I am 
pleased to share that Delaware is now set to build a new 
terminal at the Port and bring hundreds of new jobs to our 
region, which includes several States, including New Jersey, 
Pennsylvania, and Maryland.
    The Corps' work is possible because of the policies and 
studies, along with the projects and programs that our 
committee authorizes through WRDA. For a decade, this committee 
has led the effort to pass biennial WRDA legislation with 
overwhelming bipartisan support. Last year, for example, the 
Senate passed the final WRDA 2022 legislation by a vote of 83 
to 11.
    I can't tell you how often people say to me in Delaware, 
outside of Delaware, on the train, why don't you guys ever work 
together instead of always fighting with each other? We do work 
together. This is a workhorse committee. We have the numbers to 
prove it. That is a pattern we hope and expect to continue: 
timely bipartisan reauthorizations, resulting in sound policies 
to address our Nation's water resource needs.
    Today, I am particularly interested in hearing, I think we 
are particularly interested in hearing, about how the Corps' 
Fiscal Year budget for 2024 would help advance its mission and 
support the implementation of WRDA 2022. We also want to hear 
about any ongoing challenges that the agency faces so that our 
committee can continue to be a problem solver as we consider 
the next WRDA reauthorization.
    The Corps has an important and challenging mission. We 
recognize that even with historic funding, project demands 
still often outpace our investments. In the past, that has led 
to the Corps having to make some tough choices, particularly in 
many smaller, more economically disadvantaged communities, 
including those in rural and tribal areas. Historically, these 
disadvantaged communities have been the last to have their 
needs met.
    That is why we have included provisions in the 2018, as 
well as the 2020 and the 2022 WRDA reauthorizations directing 
the Corps to increase its work with financially disadvantaged 
and underserved communities. I am encouraged that the Corps' 
recently issued guidance begins to better serve these 
communities. I know they appreciate it, too. In addition, I am 
eager to hear more about the Corps' progress.
    In WRDA 2022, Congress instructed the Corps to take a more 
holistic approach when accounting for the impacts of climate 
change in the work that you do. With that in mind, today is 
also an opportunity for our committee to hear about how the 
Corps is using and plans to use those authorities.
    We are acutely aware of the need to develop solutions that 
not only work today but will still protect our Country in the 
future, but we are not alone in facing the challenges posed by 
climate change. The Federal Government needs to plan for the 
climate realities we face and will continue to face for as long 
as we are around, as human beings and probably as a Nation. 
These realities range from droughts in the West to sea level 
rise in the Gulf Coast to floods from snowpacks melting in the 
Midwest and beyond.
    As a key partner for States and communities in addressing 
the impacts of climate change, the Corps must plan for these 
realities. We know that failing to do so comes at a steep cost. 
In 2022, there were 18 climate disasters in the United States 
with damages of over $1 billion apiece. Let me just say that 
again: there were 18 climate disasters in the United States in 
2022 with damages of over $1 billion each.
    Throughout the past 30 years, much of the Corps' funding 
has been provided in response to disasters, not in preparation 
for them. Not only do we need to proactively address the root 
causes of climate change, and we are, we need to also 
proactively make our infrastructure more resilient to the 
climate-fueled extreme weather.
    In closing, my hope is that today's hearing will provide us 
with a better sense of the Corps' priorities and the direction 
it plans to take. General Spellmon, Assistant Secretary Connor, 
we look forward to hearing your testimony and your insights 
today. That will better inform our oversight and, of course, 
the 2024 WRDA bill.
    I would just say, I know you have several members of your 
team here today, including a couple named Stacey. I just want 
to say to them and to the other folks who are a part of your 
team, uniformed and not, how much we appreciate, from coast to 
coast, Red States, Blue States, every kind of State, we 
appreciate the great work you do for us, for our constituents, 
and for our Country.
    With that, let me turn to our Ranking Member, Senator 
Capito for her opening remarks. Senator Capito?

        OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, 
          U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA

    Senator Capito. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for 
calling the hearing today and for your ongoing commitment to 
our bipartisan oversight of the implementation of WRDA 2022. I 
look forward to hearing about the Corps' ongoing efforts to 
implement the law and then also your 2024 budget request.
    As Ranking Member of this committee, I recognize the 
important role that the Army Corps plays in safeguarding our 
communities and supporting growth. I live one-quarter of a mile 
from one of your waterways, so I see how important the work of 
the Corps is in my own community.
    Since 2014, the committee has kept its biennial schedule of 
authorizing water resource projects and setting national 
policies for the Civil Works Program of the Army Corps. I look 
forward to continuing this track record next year.
    WRDA 2022 authorized 25 new projects and six modifications 
to existing projects around the Country, including projects for 
navigation, flood, and coastal storm risk management, and 
ecosystem restoration it authorized, and I think this is the 
largest number, more than 100 feasibility studies that will 
develop solutions to water resources challenges in the years 
ahead.
    WRDA 2022 also included several policy changes that will 
help the Army Corps better succeed, I believe, in the Civil 
Works mission.
    I would like to extend my appreciation to the staff at the 
Army Corps and also in the Assistant Secretary's office for 
their continual engagement with the committee as we oversee the 
implementation of WRDA 2022 and prior WRDA legislation.
    As my colleagues on this committee know so well, the Army 
Corps also has important regulatory responsibilities under 
other Federal laws. These responsibilities include reviewing 
permit applications from public and private entities that are 
seeking to undertake important infrastructure projects or 
economic development projects across the Country.
    One of those private entities, Nucor, announced last year 
that Mason County, West Virginia will soon be home to the 
company's newest steel sheet mill. This is really great news 
for the State of West Virginia, but also for the Country. The 
committee has heard time and time again how product 
availability issues adversely impact the delivery of projects 
and the manufacture of goods.
    This mill will have the capacity to produce up to three 
million tons of American-made steel sheet per year, helping to 
alleviate availability issues for the industries that utilize 
this product and supporting compliance with Buy America 
provisions, including those for the Corps' own construction 
projects. According to Nucor, it will also have one of the 
lowest carbon footprints of any sheet mill in the world.
    Most importantly, to me and to most of my fellow West 
Virginians, it will bring hundreds, if not more, permanent, 
great jobs to West Virginia, which we desperately need.
    In order for this mill to become a reality, Nucor submitted 
applications for permits under Section 404 of the Clean Water 
Act and Section 10 of the Rivers and Harbors Act of 1899 to the 
Huntington District. I was looking at that date, 1899. That was 
pretty long ago.
    The Army Corps and Nucor must work diligently and 
collaboratively through this process so that timely decisions 
on these applications can be made. The Federal laws must be 
adhered to, while bureaucratic delays must be avoided.
    Assistant Secretary Connor and General Spellmon, you are 
not surprised to hear me talk about this. I want to thank you 
for the personal attention you have paid to these applications 
and look forward to continuing our engagement as we move 
forward. I appreciate your commitments to provide the District 
with resources it needs to review these applications and notify 
me of any challenges that the Army Corps has encountered.
    As I have previously reinforced with both of you, this 
plant is critical to the economic vitality of my home State and 
to improving the lives of constituents while supporting 
infrastructure and manufacturing across our Country. I will 
continue to stay on top of this, and we have talked about this 
already, previous to this starting, as I know you all will, 
too. Thank you for that.
    Last year, the Army Corps also provided funding for the 
Kanawha River Basin flood risk management study. This study 
will focus on the area of West Virginia that was devastated in 
2016 where we lost 26 people in a massive flash flood.
    Notably, the Corps has also made a significant investment 
in the Lower Mud River flood control project in Milton, West 
Virginia. This funding will go toward constructing a levee and 
other measures to help ensure the long-term safety and 
prosperity of residents in the Milton area.
    Thank you very much for recognizing the importance of these 
projects to my State. The work of the Corps, and I am sure each 
one of us could enumerate, and probably will, projects in our 
State. The work of the Corps has and will continue to make a 
difference in communities across the State of West Virginia.
    Chairman Carper, I know before too long, we will be kicking 
off the process for WRDA 2024. I look forward to continuing our 
partnership to develop bipartisan legislation.
    Let me again reiterate my gratitude toward our witnesses. 
Thank you for being here today.
    Senator Carper. Thank you, Senator Capito. Thanks very, 
very much.
    As she knows well, my family is from West Virginia, 
Beckley, just south of Charleston. I still have quite a few 
relatives in that State. I just want to say, Senator Capito, as 
somebody who cares a lot about the Mountain State, I am really 
delighted to hear about the economic opportunities that are 
being delivered in no small part because of the Army Corps. So 
thank you doubly for that.
    Now, we are going to turn to our witnesses. Before I do, 
though, let me just say to our staffs, our side led by John 
Kane, and both sides, Democrat and Republican, as well as the 
members of our committee, all of our staffs, blue States, red 
States, we work together. We worked really well together on 
this legislation. It is really important legislation. I can't 
say thanks enough to all who made our jobs relatively easy as 
we move forward to today's hearing. My thanks to all of you.
    OK. Assistant Secretary Connor has served in a variety of 
positions in the Federal Government, focusing on natural 
sources and water resources throughout his distinguished 
career. He was confirmed as the Assistant Secretary of the Army 
in November 2021, and has been off and running ever since, 
immersing himself in all matters related to Civil Works 
programs.
    Mr. Connor, you are now recognized for your statement. Once 
you have given it, we are going to turn to the fellow in 
uniform right next to you.
    Secretary Connor.

 STATEMENT OF HON. MICHAEL CONNOR, ASSISTANT SECRETARY, ARMY, 
                        FOR CIVIL WORKS

    Mr. Connor. Thank you. Chairman Carper, Ranking Member 
Capito, and distinguished members, thank you for the 
opportunity to be here today to discuss the President's Fiscal 
Year 2024 budget and the implementation of WRDA 2022.
    Thank you for the tenacious work of you and your staff in 
getting the Water Resources Development Act over the finish 
line last year. We and countless stakeholders rely on the 
biennial authorization to address new challenges and adjust 
existing authorities as circumstances warrant. This committee's 
work is incredibly important.
    As you know, the Army Civil Works Program serves three main 
missions: flood and storm damage reduction, commercial 
navigation, and aquatic ecosystem restoration and supports 
related project purposes, such as water supply, hydropower, and 
recreation. The Fiscal Year 2024 budget request includes over 
$7.4 billion for the Army Civil Works Program, which is the 
largest request in history, and is complemented by an 
additional $1.05 billion from the Infrastructure Investment and 
Jobs Act.
    These investments demonstrate President Biden's ongoing 
commitment to funding the construction of critical 
infrastructure projects that will strengthen our economy, 
protect people and property, and restore key ecosystems.
    It is important to note that the water resources challenges 
of today are not like those of yesterday. Weather extremes are 
increasingly the norm, so understanding vulnerabilities and 
increasing our preparedness is of the utmost importance. For 
that reason, the budget provides $86 million, the largest 
request in Corps' history, for research and development. The 
focus of this work will be on innovative solutions that address 
the emerging water resources challenges of the 21st century and 
achieves cost savings in the Civil Works Program.
    The Army Civil Works budget focuses on the highest 
performing work within the three main missions of the Civil 
Works Program. In developing the budget, consideration was also 
given to advancing three key objectives of the Administration: 
decreasing climate risk for communities and the environment, 
promoting environmental justice in underserved communities and 
tribal nations, and strengthening the Nation's supply chains.
    First, the Corps has always been in the resilience business 
and climate-focused investments include more than $1.4 billion 
for construction of flood and storm damage reduction and 
aquatic ecosystem restoration projects.
    Second priority, the budget supports the Administration's 
Justice40 Initiative through investments in 23 studies and 
construction of 33 projects to help disadvantaged and tribal 
communities address their water resources challenges.
    Priority three, the budget facilitates safe, reliable, and 
sustainable commercial navigation to support U.S. 
competitiveness and improve the resilience of our Nation's 
manufacturing and supply chains, supporting American jobs and 
the economy.
    The Administration's commitment to our coastal ports and 
inland waterways is represented by over $3.4 billion for the 
inland and coastal navigation projects, including $1.7 billion 
derived from the Harbor Maintenance Trust Fund.
    Looking deeper at the construction budget, it provides $653 
million for aquatic ecosystem restoration, including $415 
million to continue restoring America's everglades, and $67 
million to support salmon recovery efforts in the Columbia 
River Basin. Other significant construction activity includes 
$655 million for dam safety at Prado Dam in California, $350 
million for replacement of the Cape Cod Canal Bridges, and $235 
million to continue construction of the Soo Locks project, 
which benefits our entire economy.
    In total, the Fiscal Year 2024 construction program is 
funded at more than $2 billion. In addition to new projects, 
the budget invests in operation and maintaining the Corps' 
existing infrastructure and improving its reliability and 
performance by providing over $4.4 billion in the operation and 
maintenance account.
    Investments in the recreation program are also providing 
significant funding as set forth in my statement, and the 
regulatory program is robustly funded at $221 million to 
support the Administration's focus on permitting.
    Turning to WRDA, we are well into the initial steps of 
implementing the law. We held a public comment period and 
listening sessions earlier this year to gather input on the 
need for implementation guidance. At this time, the Army has 
identified 10 provisions of WRDA 2022 that will require 
implementation guidance documents, and the drafting is now 
underway.
    WRDA 2022 provided additional flexibility for the Army to 
assist disadvantaged and rural communities, including tribal 
nations, a theme continued from WRDA 2020. We look forward to 
using these tools to expand the range of communities we work 
with and for. We also look forward to engaging with each of you 
on the provisions of importance to the communities that you 
represent.
    To summarize, the budget makes critical investments that 
will benefit the American people and promote greater prosperity 
and economic growth for decades to come. WRDA 2022 provides the 
opportunity to solve water resources challenges facing 
communities, nurture sustainable aquatic ecosystems, and 
strengthen community resilience and the Nation's economy as a 
fundamental part of the Army Corps' mission.
    Thank you for the invitation. I look forward to the 
questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Connor follows:]
    
 [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
   
    Senator Carper. Thanks so much for your testimony and for 
your leadership.
    Now, we are going to turn to General Spellmon. General 
Spellmon, you have been here before any number of times. We are 
happy to see you again.
    I understand that you served in a number of a variety of 
positions within the Federal Government, focusing largely on 
natural and water resources throughout your distinguished 
career. How long have you served in the Army?
    General Spellmon. Sir, 37 years.
    Senator Carper. Thirty-seven years. You started as a child? 
Didn't they have labor laws back then?
    General Spellmon. Eighteen, sir.
    Senator Carper. That is pretty impressive. Were you prior 
enlisted?
    General Spellmon. No, sir.
    Senator Carper. Where did you go, the Military Academy?
    General Spellmon. Military Academy at high school, yes, 
sir.
    Senator Carper. Good for you.
    General Spellmon was confirmed as Assistant Secretary of 
the Army in November 2021 and has been off and running ever 
since, immersing himself in all matters relating to the Civil 
Works Program. That, I just read the wrong intro. Let us just 
start over.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Carper. General Spellmon has been serving forever 
as the 55th Chief of Engineers as Commanding General of the 
Army Corps of Engineers serving since September 2020, before 
which he served as the Deputy Commanding General for Civil and 
Emergency Operations. He is no stranger to the Corps' Civil 
Works Program or to this committee.
    We are grateful for your distinguished service, long-time 
service. We look forward to hearing from you today, and you are 
welcome to begin your statement.
    Thank you.

 STATEMENT OF LIEUTENANT GENERAL SCOTT SPELLMON, 55TH CHIEF OF 
                ENGINEERS AND COMMANDING GENERAL

    General Spellmon. Sir, thank you for that generous 
introduction, and good morning.
    Senator Carper. Which one did you like best?
    [Laughter.]
    We can only pay you for one job, though. Welcome aboard.
    General Spellmon. Yes, sir. Chairman Carper, Ranking Member 
Capito, and distinguished members of the committee, I am 
honored to testify before you today.
    Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the Fiscal Year 
2024 budget request for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. It is 
another record investment in our Nation's Civil Works Program, 
and I am also pleased to discuss the ongoing implementation of 
the Water Resources Development Act of 2022, as well as other 
recent water resources acts. This critical legislation provides 
us with the authorizations necessary to advance our civil works 
missions and enables critical policy transformations to address 
the changing needs of the Nation's water resources 
infrastructure.
    Today, I look forward to discussing the status of important 
Corps projects and programs, as well as answering any questions 
the committee may have regarding the 2024 budget and recent 
WRDA implementation. Most importantly, I look forward to 
continuing to work with this committee, the Congress, and the 
Administration to address the Nation's critical water resources 
infrastructure needs.
    We greatly appreciate the committee's continued support of 
the Corps' program. In WRDA 2022, Congress authorized 25 new 
construction projects, 94 new feasibility studies, and 131 new 
environmental infrastructure projects. These studies and 
projects, when funded, will strengthen our supply chain, help 
tackle the climate crisis, advance environmental justice, and 
invest in tribal nations and underserved communities.
    With recent record-high appropriations, including the $1.4 
billion of additional funding provided late last year as part 
of the Disaster Relief Supplemental Appropriations Act of 2023, 
the Corps' Civil Works Program has experienced significant 
growth over the past several years. This substantial level of 
investment enables critical water resource projects to be 
studied and constructed and it allows us to further develop 
innovative approaches to address some of our most pressing 
challenges through focused research and development.
    The Fiscal Year 2024 Budget reflects a targeted approach to 
continue investing in our water resources programs to promote 
climate resiliency, which will benefit the Nation's economy, 
our environment, and public safety now and well into the 
future. The budget also supports the Assistant Secretary's 
priorities for the Corps by upgrading our Nation's waterways, 
protecting communities and ecosystems, better serving 
disadvantaged communities, investing in science and research 
and development, and then finally, sustaining and improving our 
communications and relationships with our many partners.
    The 2024 budget, when taken with other recent funding, as 
well as the authorizations from WRDA 2022 and previous WRDA 
legislation, provides the Corps with what the Secretary calls a 
transformational opportunity to deliver water resource 
infrastructure projects that will positively impact communities 
across our great Nation.
    We are also taking advantage of this opportunity to do two 
things. First, that is to transform our organization and 
decisionmaking processes to safely deliver quality projects on 
time and within budget, and second, to identify risks to how we 
are delivering our program. Our teams are hard at work seeking 
out new and better ways to mitigate or eliminate these risks so 
we can further strengthen the safety and security of 
communities across our Country and our territories.
    By evolving our policies, programs, and operations, and 
placing increased focus on research and development, we are 
working to overcome impacts of challenges such as sea level 
rise, changes to precipitation patterns and hydrology, and 
other effects of climate change, including improvement to the 
resilience of our own Corps-owned and operated infrastructure.
    I will conclude by saying the Corps does not accomplish 
anything on its own. Delivering successful civil works projects 
is a shared responsibility. It is a team sport. We draw from 
our engineering expertise and buildupon our relationships with 
our non-Federal partners, our project stakeholders, and 
Congress to enable us to succeed.
    I look forward to continuing our great collaboration as we 
continue to pursue our vision, and that is engineering 
solutions for our Nation's toughest challenges.
    Thank you again, Chairman Carper, Ranking Member Capito, 
and members of the committee. I look forward to answering any 
questions you may have.
    [The prepared statement of General Spellmon follows:]
    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    
    Senator Carper. General, thank you so much for that 
testimony.
    I am going to ask a couple of questions. The first one, let 
me just lay the groundwork, if I could. The 2024 budget request 
of $7.4 billion, which is the largest request by an 
Administration for the agency. The Corps has received record 
high appropriations in recent years, as you know, last year 
receiving over $8.6 billion. This is in addition to significant 
resources from the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, as you have 
referenced.
    Altogether, in the last three years, the Corps has received 
almost $50 billion between advanced and regular appropriations, 
almost $50 billion. This is more money than the Corps has ever 
received. With this funding, Congress has entrusted you to 
plan, to construct, to maintain and to operate our Nation's 
water resources infrastructure.
    My question is, we are hearing that there are significant 
cost overruns on the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law projects. 
This could cause these projects to become stalled or to require 
supplemental funding. Please tell us how the Corps and the 
Office of Management and Budget (OMB) are working together to 
avoid or to address these cost overruns and to make sure that 
the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law projects are being delivered 
on time and on budget.
    Who would like to go first?
    General Spellmon. Sir, I will start. Sir, first, I would 
acknowledge, these are clearly historic times for the Army 
Corps of Engineers. You mentioned the Civil Works Program. When 
you add in the work we are doing for the Army, the Air Force, 
the Veteran's Administration, today, it is a $92 billion 
program, the largest we have ever seen.
    Couple that historic program with some unique challenges 
that we are experiencing across the Country. When you talk to 
our contractors that do this work, No. 1 is labor availability 
of skilled tradesmen. That is the No. 1 cost driver that we are 
seeing on our projects.
    Senator Carper. Yes, we hear that all over our State, and I 
think we hear that all over our Country.
    General Spellmon. Yes, sir, and different impacts in 
different States, but a close second are material prices. 
Timber is coming down, steel is levelling off, but we are still 
seeing 40-year highs on glass products, on asphalt products, 
and coating.
    So what are we doing? First of all, we want to take 
advantage of Section 8155. That is the 902 Holiday. We don't 
want to lose momentum on any project that we have underway.
    For a $92 billion program, we have been told we need about 
500 cost engineers in the Army Corps. Last year at this time, 
we had 350. Today, we have 422, so we want to give better 
estimates to the Secretary, and we are working hard to hire the 
remaining 78.
    We are working hard, also, on alternate suppliers. When we 
have long lead items on switch gears or HVAC systems, we are 
working with Defense Logistics Agency, and they have given us 
opportunities to cut that delivery time, in some cases, a half 
to a third.
    Again, sir, you have our commitment. One of the criteria 
when we take our project recommendations to Secretaries, we 
want to finish everything that we start, and we remain 
committed to that.
    Senator Carper. Thank you.
    Mr. Secretary, if you would like to add to that, please do.
    Mr. Connor. Absolutely. Just some additional thoughts 
really quickly.
    I do think it is important that we do more frequent 
updates, certified cost estimates, so that we are up-to-date 
and transparent with respect to the costs that we have. I think 
that has been some of the issue, and General Spellmon has 
highlighted how the Army Corps is moving in that direction.
    I would just note, for the record, he mentioned the $192 
billion program that now exists. That is basically with 38,000 
employees. A decade ago, that was about $37 billion with about 
37,000 employees. So we are working with about the same numbers 
of employees, slightly more these days, on over twice as large 
a program. It is quite the challenge.
    I think there are a number of innovations from using an 
enterprise-wide system at the Corps, bringing in help from 
other districts divisions to support the work that I think is 
incredibly important.
    A couple other quick thoughts: reserve funds, we did it in 
Bipartisan Budget Act 2018 (BBA). We have done some of that 
with the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. We have reallocated 
some funds. I should say we have reserved some funds and then 
allocated those funds to address some of the cost impacts and 
trying to get some of the increases. We are looking at 
reallocations.
    Some of our sponsors, who have interest in multiple 
projects, are looking at how we might reallocate funds to 
finish one project before we start another one.
    We also got to talk about rescoping with our project 
sponsors. There are a number of strategies that we are 
discussing internally and with OMB to try and get at these cost 
increase issues.
    Senator Carper. Let me ask one other quick question. With 
respect to climate change, as you know, as the Senator from the 
lowest-lying State in our Country, we are concerned about the 
fact that climate change is driving sea level rise and extreme 
weather events in my State and, frankly, in a lot of other 
States around our Country. WRDA 2022 includes authorities for 
the Corps to address extreme weather, including sea level rise, 
when it designs any project, large or small.

    Question:

    With these new authorities, how will the Corps work to 
implement these provisions and make non-Federal sponsors aware 
of the law to ensure that the impacts of climate change are 
fully accounted for in all project designs, please?
    General Spellmon. Yes, sir. I will start.
    First, I am proud to report that the Corps has been using 
sea level rise curves in our coastal projects for the past 12 
years, and we are working every day to improve the modeling of 
that.
    We have a lot more work to do on our inland systems. I am 
proud to report that our research and development budget has 
quadrupled in this President's budget, and that is going to 
allow us to get after things like forecast-informed reservoir 
operations. Very, very successful pilots ongoing today out in 
the West Coast, but how can I take that technology and modify 
it to accommodate for some of the changing precipitation 
patterns we are seeing, say, on the upper or lower Missouri, or 
what we are seeing down in Florida? We are very thankful for 
that investment. We think we can do more, but we have to focus 
on our R&D program to get after it.
    Senator Carper. Thank you.
    Mr. Secretary.
    Mr. Connor. You are going to hear a lot of repetitive items 
here.
    Senator Carper. Repetition can be good.
    Mr. Connor. The R&D initiative that we have in the budget, 
I think, is incredibly important to ensure that we are 
constantly updating the models that we use as part of the 
engineering design work, whether it be on our coast with sea 
level rise, or the hydrology that we are trying to get after 
right now. So I think that is fundamental to the whole effort.
    I think General Spellmon also highlighted a need that we 
have, whether it is new infrastructure or existing 
infrastructure, we need to make that infrastructure work harder 
and serve multiple benefits.
    I think that is incredibly important as we face new 
extremes, whether it be drought, or whether it be significant 
precipitation events, the seven one-in-one-thousand-year events 
we had just in the continental U.S. last year. We have to look 
at the existing infrastructure and how it might operate 
differently, as well as integrate those extremes into the 
designs in our new infrastructure.
    Senator Carper. Thank you both for those responses.
    Senator Capito.
    Senator Capito. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank both of you.
    I am going to go to, as I mentioned in my opening 
statement, about the Nucor permit application. General 
Spellmon, can you provide me with an update, a brief update, 
with Nucor's Section 404 permit and also, in particular, 
Section 106, the National Historic Preservation Act?
    General Spellmon. Yes, ma'am. First of all, I want to thank 
you for hosting the meeting with the new Corps executives and 
our leadership in your office.
    Since that meeting, several developments. The West Virginia 
State Historic Preservation Officer has concurred with our 
assessment that the five cultural sites and phase eight 
properties do, in fact, qualify for consultation, so we have 
sent letters to the three tribes to initiate that consultation. 
They have asked us for some time. These are 800-page reports, 
so we will get that scheduled.
    We did receive Nucor's cultural assessment on the phase B 
properties. These are, if you recall, the properties closer to 
the Ohio River. There are two additional sites there that will 
add to that consultation effort.
    We did receive the feedback that we requested on the 
Neibert sites, ma'am. That is the property just to the south 
with the laydown yard. That response included some case law 
that we are researching with our attorneys and those from 
Nucor, and then we will make a decision here shortly whether or 
not that is part of the project footprint.
    Senator Capito. I appreciate that. It sounds as though 
there is constant contact here with communication and so, I 
appreciate that from both of you.
    Assistant Secretary Connor, I wanted to ask about 
congressionally directed spending. The Army Corps' budget 
request includes roughly $5 million for nine feasibility 
studies that were included in the congressionally directed 
spending items in Fiscal Year 2022. I think the 
Administration's incorporation of these items is a step in the 
right direction.
    Will the Corps continue to incorporate CDS items, 
particularly new starts into future budget requests? If the 
answer to that is yes, can you please describe the process that 
the Corps uses to identify which of these items would be 
included?
    Mr. Connor. We will certainly proceed in accordance with 
the congressionally directed spending items that are 
highlighted in the annual appropriations bills and through our 
work plans. That is how we will make the selections and move 
forward.
    I think it is not just the projects themselves that are 
having significant cost increases. We are seeing that in the 
investigation side of things, too. The investigations we are 
doing are more complex. The $3 million mark that we have used 
based on the 2014 legislation, in my view, is a bit outdated. 
Those costs need to be updated. We are almost 10 years later.
    From that standpoint, I think we have still got a good 
track record of taking congressionally directed items, 
particularly in the investigations count, then following up 
through work plan, through the President's budget, and through 
the additional resources, supplementals that we have had of 
maintaining progress toward completion of those studies.
    As General Spellmon said earlier, completing our work, 
whether it is projects or investigations, is paramount and 
incorporated into every aspect of our decisionmaking processes.
    Senator Capito. Thank you.
    General Spellmon, I championed a provision in WRDA 2022 
that directs the Army Corps to submit to the committee on an 
annual basis a report on the timeframes for completing 
environmental reviews for water resource development projects. 
We are talking a lot about permitting. We had a hearing last 
week on permitting. You are obviously a critical part of that 
process. Can you solve our permitting reform problem?
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Capito. I am just kidding. That was not my real 
question. If you would like to weigh in on that, too, I was 
going to ask you the status of the implementation of the 
provision that you will report to us on an annual basis, but 
any comments and any words of wisdom you can give us as we are 
trying to work a bipartisan permitting reform process would be 
greatly appreciated.
    General Spellmon. No, ma'am, I think the best policy and 
decisions will come from the data, so this is Section 8134. You 
have asked for eight different data sets that deal with how 
many categorical exclusions do we do, how many environmental 
assessments (EA), how many environmental impact statements, how 
long does that take. No issue, we collect that data, and I am 
happy to provide that to you in this annual report.
    Senator Capito. OK, and now onto permitting. Do you have a 
comment on that?
    General Spellmon. Ma'am, we work hard. We do 80,000 
regulatory actions each year. The ones that rise to this 
chamber, there is a handful. So, you have an incredibly hard 
team out there working every day.
    I just want to thank the Congress for the additional 
funding that you gave us in the regulatory program in the 
Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. It funded 200 additional 
regulators that we so desperately need out in the field. We 
have hired 150 of those, and we are working to hire the 
remaining 50 as quickly as we can.
    Senator Capito. Thank you.
    Senator Carper. It looks like Senator Padilla is next in 
the lineup, and after that, Senator Ricketts. Senator Padilla?
    Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Secretary Connor, I want to start by thanking you for your 
partnership on so many critical issues that we have been 
working on in California, from maintaining our seaports, which 
handle 40 percent of containerized cargo arriving to the United 
States to protecting communities from flood risks posed by more 
than 30 atmospheric river storms that we have experienced this 
last winter. The Army Corps is clearly critical to California.
    In particular, I appreciate your willingness to work with 
the town of Pajaro and Watsonville to accelerate the Pajaro 
River Flood Protection Project in order to safeguard the 
community from future natural disasters. We have spoken about 
it directly. I know you have had a chance to visit and see 
firsthand.
    But now I want to urge the Corps to provide the emergency 
assistance necessary to these communities who have been left 
behind in so many ways, and are oftentimes disproportionately 
impacted by natural disasters like what we have experienced in 
recent months. As you know, one of the biggest impediments to 
protecting the community of Pajaro before their recent storms 
was the Army Corps' benefit-cost ratio. Again, we have talked 
about this privately.
    I want to raise it in today's hearing, because this is 
fundamentally an issue of equity. The Pajaro River Project was 
long overlooked because it would protect, imagine this, it 
would protect a low-income community with what is considered, 
relatively speaking, lower property values. The Army Corps' 
rigid benefit-cost ratio formula typically disadvantages 
projects that would protect communities like this one compared 
to communities with higher property values.
    This was an issue that I discussed in a budget hearing with 
OMB Director Shalanda Young in March. She and I agreed that it 
is patently unfair to have a system that says poorer 
communities will not receive the same level of flood protection 
as wealthier communities. She committed to work with me to 
permanently fix this glaring inequity.
    I want to ask, for the record, Secretary Connor, do you 
agree that the benefit-cost ratio systematically disadvantages 
underserved communities like Pajaro, and will you also commit 
to working with us on a permanent fix?
    Mr. Connor. Senator, I appreciate the question. I 
absolutely agree with you that, whether they be rural or 
minority communities that are systematically disadvantaged by 
our current benefit-cost ratio processes, and I will absolutely 
work with you. We have an initiative in place that I think you 
are aware of to institute a rulemaking to address principles, 
requirements, guidelines, how we will apply them to better 
balance environmental, social, as well as economic benefits.
    Senator Padilla. Great. Just to be clear, this is not just 
for the sake of current projects that, in many cases, are 
overdue, but for all future projects as well.
    I want to, in my time remaining, raise one more issue. In 
California, we are facing a special kind of weather whiplash 
right now. I have talked about the storms that led to record 
snowpack, and in fact, snowpack in California right now 
measures about 254 percent of average. Six feet of snow sits in 
many places that were bare ground just a year ago.
    As this historic snowpack melts this spring, we are seeing 
the re-emergence of Tulare Lake, a lake that has been dry for 
25 years, but has the capacity to hold three to four times more 
water than Lake Tahoe, just to give you a perspective here. At 
risk are communities like Corcoran, whose levee is already 
facing erosion challenges from previous storms.
    Secretary Connor, the Corps operates the four major dams 
that impact the Tulare Lake Basin. Can you share with the 
committee what the Army Corps is working on in collaboration 
with the State of California to bolster communities in the low-
lying areas of the San Joaquin Valley against potential flood 
risks?
    Mr. Connor. Absolutely, Senator. General Spellmon and I 
were both out there just a few weeks ago for the ribbon-cutting 
on Lake Isabella, the dam safety project. So we are operating 
the four-plus facilities that we have. I mentioned Lake 
Isabella because we have 200,000 additional capacity now to 
store water in the middle of this flood control event, because 
we are completing work that we started over a decade ago. What 
we do today matters for the next crisis.
    Second of all, we immediately started to improve our inter-
agency coordination between the Corps, the Department of Water 
Resources, and local officials. During the event itself, I got 
several calls, so did the General, and the leadership of the 
Corps to better coordinate how we were making releases that we 
would prepare the levee district boards, their operators, as 
well as the State. We visited the command center outside of 
Fresno not too long ago, so we are coordinating those 
operations to ensure that we have the best information possible 
for people to manage the system throughout down to Tulare Lake.
    Last, I would just mention the State of California's 
partnership. It was rewarding to see the enthusiasm amongst our 
day-to-day operators in incorporating data that the State of 
California was providing with their LiDAR monitoring of 
snowpack on a real-time basis, giving updates of what snowpack 
was there, how quickly it was coming out. That will greatly 
improve our operations so that we can manage this flood risk as 
best possible. It is pretty overwhelming, though, as you noted.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you very much.
    In closing, just imagine that: utilizing technology and 
science and data to inform decisionmaking. What a concept.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Senator Carper. Thank you for those questions. I was just 
saying, as an aside to Senator Capito, I used to be stationed 
in the Navy in California. The idea of two Senators 
representing a State that large, that diverse, how many people 
live in California now?
    Senator Padilla. Nearly 40 million, Mr. Chair.
    Senator Carper. That is amazing. We are at one million. So, 
there you go.
    Next in our questioning is going to be Senator Ricketts, 
and then it will be Senator Cardin. Senator Ricketts, please.
    Senator Ricketts. Thank you very much, Chairman Carper. I 
appreciate it. Secretary Connor, thank you very much for being 
here, and General Spellmon.
    General Spellmon, I am going to focus my remarks on the 
Army Corps. I was previously the Governor of Nebraska, so I 
have a fair amount of experience with, specifically, the Omaha 
District of the Army Corps. I will start by complimenting 
Colonel Himes, who is currently the person in charge there, and 
Colonel Hudson before him for their efforts to reach out and 
have a good relationship with the State of Nebraska with regard 
to communication and so forth.
    However, my overall experience with the Army Corps is poor. 
There are a lot of things I would love to have the time to talk 
to you about, but we have limited time, so I am going to focus 
on one. First of all, at some point, I hope we do have an 
opportunity to talk about the Army Corps' management of the 
Missouri River, how they made determinations of how much 
storage they are keeping upstream and waterflows and so forth.
    But today, I am going to focus on one of the issues that is 
also very important, which Ranking Member Capito talked about, 
which is permitting reform. I am going to share with you some 
of my experiences that I had. First of all, one of the things 
that our local natural resource district was trying to do, 
because they are responsible for flood control, is raise the 
levees around Offutt Air Force Base. I am sure you are familiar 
with Offutt Air Force Base as the site of strategic command 
that controls our nuclear forces, very important, the 55th 
wing, as well.
    It took the Army Corps of Engineers six years to get a 
permit to raise the levees around Offutt Air Force Base. It 
came just as construction was supposed to start in March, so it 
would allow for construction to start in the spring of 2019. 
Twenty-nineteen was also the year that we had historic flooding 
in Nebraska, the most widespread flooding in our State's 
history.
    The reason they were trying to raise the levee is because 
they knew from previous experience that the water was going to 
rise, and they needed to raise those levees. The flooding that 
happened in 2019 covered the air strip, damaged dozens of 
buildings, and cost the taxpayers of this Country nearly a 
billion dollars.
    If the Army Corps had delivered the permit in just fours 
years, that could have been avoided. But it took six years, and 
that is not the only example of that. We will get back to this 
one as well, but R616-613 took seven years to get a permit. I 
want to talk about that one maybe a little bit later.
    Another example of permitting where we didn't have good 
communication or didn't get good explanation is Highway 275. It 
is a two-lane highway we are expanding to a four-lane highway, 
and the Army Corps of Engineers insisted on a full-blown 
Environmental Impact Study instead of an Environmental 
Assessment.
    But I want to focus on the permitting side, because I have 
lots of questions about why it would take this long. Do you 
measure how long it takes to get a permit done for the Army 
Corps of Engineers?
    General Spellmon. Yes, sir.
    Senator Ricketts. How long does it take?
    General Spellmon. An individual permit, on average, for the 
80,000 that we do each year, is 11 months.
    Senator Ricketts. Eleven months. Did you do a review of why 
it took six years to get a permit for those levees around 
Offutt Air Force Base?
    General Spellmon. Sir, I don't know all the history behind 
those six years. I can do that for you, but I don't know.
    Senator Ricketts. When you have a project that is such an 
outlier, if you say it is 11 months, and one happens in six 
years, you don't have a process to go back and say, hey, what 
happened here? Why is it taking so long?
    General Spellmon. I don't have that information today.
    Senator Ricketts. I would encourage you to put controls in 
place to do that. We did a lot of permitting reform when I was 
Governor of Nebraska to be able to take time to reduce the time 
it takes for us to be able to issue permits, the State. We used 
a process called Lean Six Sigma. It is a process improvement 
methodology. There are several others out there you could use.
    But that is a way that has helps you process-map so that 
you can reduce duplicated steps. To me, again, based upon my 
experience with Colonel Himes and Colonel Hudson, you have a 
systematic problem. You have good people there, and maybe this 
is only my experience in the Omaha District, but we have a 
problem there.
    For example, I am going to go back to the R616-613 levee 
and it taking seven years to get that permit. Again, another 
outlier. I presume you don't have any specific knowledge of 
that, but it cost $6 million to get that permit for the natural 
resources district. The total project cost was $45 million, was 
what was projected.
    Do you believe it should cost 13 percent of a project to 
get your permit?
    General Spellmon. Sir, I don't know the details here and 
what modeling requirements were necessary. I don't know the 
details of your question.
    Senator Ricketts. But do you think permitting should take 
up 13 percent of the cost of a project?
    General Spellmon. I don't have the data behind this, sir. I 
would love to followup with you once I know more.
    Senator Ricketts. So you don't have a ballpark on what you 
think permitting should cost as an overall project?
    General Spellmon. I don't, here this morning. Not for this 
particular project.
    Senator Ricketts. Just in general, I am just saying, in 
general. How much should a permit cost? What percentage of a 
project should a permit be?
    General Spellmon. Sir, I don't have that figure here.
    Senator Ricketts. General, I think that is part of the 
problem that you have, is that you don't think about the 
overall scope of what you should be doing to provide service to 
the taxpayers, here. I strongly encourage you, because we do 
need to have permitting reform, here. We can streamline these 
processes without sacrificing any sort of quality, here, but to 
me, there is no reason why it should take six or seven years to 
issue a permit to districts.
    Another area is maintenance. It is taking two years to get 
maintenance permits. That is something that should be done on 
an annual basis, but you can't do maintenance annually if it 
takes two years.
    My time has expired here, General, maybe I will have an 
opportunity to have another round of questions here. Maybe not. 
But this is why I think it is so important that we look at 
permitting reform, looking at our processes, seeing how we can 
streamline them so we can turn these things around in a better 
timeframe, because it will be important to preventing damage 
and also save taxpayers money.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Carper. You bet.
    You said earlier, I think, General, you mentioned a number 
of permits that you process or segue over in a year. What was 
that, do you remember?
    General Spellmon. Sir, it is about 80,000 regulatory 
actions. I think that the first step for Senator Ricketts, just 
to respond, I think the first step in permitting reform you 
have helped us with, and that is resourcing the program.
    I don't know the details of why this took six years. I also 
don't know how many permit actions were on that particular 
regulator's desk at the moment. So again, this funding has 
greatly helped us. It will help us service through 2026, and I 
think an important part would be funding that program into the 
future.
    Senator Carper. Thank you.
    We have been joined by Senator Cardin, who has, as some of 
you will recall, he has decided he does not want to be a United 
States Senator for the next 100 years, but we are stuck with 
him for the next, I think, 20 months.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Cardin. I think I might have to defend myself, 
here. Let me tell you, I enjoy serving on almost all the 
committees I serve on. Not sure about this one.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Carper. Ben has the misfortune of having to sit 
next to me on not one committee, but two. We have been, and 
also, to be alongside our border, we share borders from the 
north of our States all the way down to Ocean City.
    It is a joy. He and his wife, Myrna, come to our State from 
time to time. We have great affection for them. We look forward 
to working you really hard in the next 20 months, and we are 
going to get one hell of a lot done. We already have.
    Senator Cardin. Mr. Chairman, first, it is a pleasure to 
serve on this committee. It is one of the great committees in 
the U.S. Senate. We work together, and I appreciate that very 
much.
    I started working with the Army Corps in 1967, my first 
year in the Maryland General Assembly, so I go back a few years 
on some of these issues, and started working on the Chesapeake 
Bay back with Governor Hughes when he became Governor, the 
Chesapeake Bay Program. It has been a long run in regard to the 
partnership.
    General Spellmon, I want you to know that in our District, 
Colonel Pinchasin is doing a fabulous job. The communication is 
excellent. I am glad you got more resources on the regulatory 
front. It was needed; there was no question about that. The 
relationship and the transparency has been outstanding, so I 
just really wanted you to know that.
    Secretary Connor, thank you for your attention, 
particularly on our Mid-Bay Project. I mention that because 
Poplar Island was really a game changer in regards to using 
beneficial use of materials from dredging to do environmental 
restoration. It provided a friendly place for us to be able to 
keep our channels open for commerce, which was always a 
controversial issue in Maryland politics, but no longer is it a 
controversial issue.
    As a result, we now have Mid-Bay, and thank you again for 
your personal attention. We had a little challenge to make sure 
we got the construction dollars there. We were initiating it, 
and then the Administration came in, the Army Corps came in, 
and we appreciate the funds that are there.
    Mid-Bay will keep us for about another 40 years, so I am 
going to let my future legislators figure out what we do after 
40 years. But are we on target to make sure that Mid-Bay moves 
forward? If you could just comment on that, I would appreciate 
it.
    Mr. Connor. Yes, Senator Cardin. As a 24-year Maryland 
resident before I relocated back out West, thank you very much 
for your service, sir.
    With respect to Mid-Bay, we are on target right now to keep 
moving forward. We have initiated the project itself. We are 
good through Fiscal Year 2024 with the $84 million provided in 
the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, and then the $5 million in 
additional appropriations.
    But I do think we will be looking at the need for resources 
in 2025. This is a very significantly sized project, but as you 
pointed out, win-win-win-win, I think is how I referred to it 
between the long-term certainty for the harbor and the economic 
activity that supports, the restoration of the islands and the 
habitat and aquatic ecosystems and the coastal wetlands that it 
will provide, the benefits overall even with respect to 
sequestering carbon when we restore those coastal wetlands, as 
well as the protection of the Maryland coast when we rebuild 
these barrier islands.
    This is a really important project. It is a demonstration 
of what we can do with valuable material instead of just 
putting it in placement areas. I appreciate Maryland's 
leadership in developing the program so that we can be a 
partner in this.
    Senator Cardin. For my colleagues, Poplar Island was at one 
time a habitable island. When we started the restoration, there 
was just a few acres that remained. Mid-Bay was at one time 
habitable, and now it is just a few acres. We are restoring it.
    I know my colleagues appreciate the challenges of trying to 
find sites for dredged material. It is not easy. Poplar Island 
is located in, basically, mid-shore of the Eastern Shore of 
Maryland, which has accepted it, and not only accepted it, 
brags about that fact of what is there. It is going to become a 
real magnet for the economy of the region because it is 
attracting wildlife, and it is a plus for the community.
    We have been able to really make this a win-win situation, 
and it couldn't have been done without your support, so thank 
you, Mr. Secretary, I appreciate that very much.
    I want to move on to a second priority I have, which are 
the small harbors. They can't compete with the large Army Corps 
projects on the economic benefits, but they are critically 
important to the local economy. In the last WRDA bill, we 
included language that asked you to prioritize the 
consideration of the smaller projects so that we can help our 
smaller communities deal with dredging, which is so important 
to their viability and continuation.
    Can you just share with us how you are going about trying 
to make those types of priority judgments, either the General 
or the Secretary?
    General?
    General Spellmon. Sir, I had a great conversation with 
Colonel Pinchasin on this. Every year, we have 90 shallow 
harbors in your State, and we have the capability each year to 
maintain about 10 of them. We have to do better. One of the 
things that we are discussing is, we have to get better usage 
data for these 90 small ports. Right now, when I send up my 
justification sheets to the Secretary, it is largely anecdotal, 
and we have to do better on providing the data that would 
support the budget recommendation. That is one idea, sir.
    Senator Cardin. I appreciate that.
    Last, this committee has provided such additional resources 
in regards to environmental infrastructure. I appreciate that 
there was authorization for my State, substantial authorization 
for environmental infrastructure.
    I know that is going to require funding moving forward, but 
it also requires technical capacity to take advantage of this. 
I would just ask you how you are prioritizing being able to 
analyze the opportunities that are there matching with the 
funding made available by the Congress.
    Mr. Connor. I can not think of any more of an 
oversubscribed program than environmental infrastructure at 
this point in time. I think in this last WRDA bill, there was 
$4.2 billion in authorizations in environmental infrastructure, 
and we recognize the value it has to many communities. I think 
that $4.2 billion was over double what had previously been 
authorized over two decades, at least.
    A journey of a thousand miles begins with a few steps. We 
have the first budget request for environmental infrastructure. 
Yes, it is modest, but I think it is a turning point to 
recognize how valuable this program is, given all the array of 
challenges. We are another provider of services that can 
address a lot of communities' needs, whether it be water 
supply, wastewater, all the smaller projects.
    We are looking at how we can advance our support in 
conjunction with the very significant funding provided by 
Congress. I think this is going to be a work in progress, 
Senator.
    Senator Cardin. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Carper. Do I understand, from your announcement 
this last week, that you were first elected to the State 
legislature 58 years ago? Is that correct? At the age of 12?
    Senator Cardin. Yes, in 1966.
    Senator Carper. So it was your wife who was 12?
    Senator Cardin. You can do the arithmetic. I will let 
everybody. Your arithmetic might be a little bit off. It has 
been almost 57 years, but it will be 58 by the time I complete 
this term.
    Senator Carper. That is amazing.
    Senator Cardin. It has been an interesting run. I ran when 
I was a law student at the University of Maryland. They thought 
it would hurt my class standing, but I got on the committee 
that had the budget of the University of Maryland School of 
Law, and did very well in law school.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Carper. In adversity lies opportunity. We are happy 
for you and sad for us, but we look forward to making the next 
20 months count very much.
    Senator Wicker, you are next, and Senator Fetterman, you 
are in the on-deck circle. We will turn to you after Senator 
Wicker. Go ahead, Senator Wicker.
    Senator Wicker. Mr. Chairman, I am getting older by the 
minute, sitting over here.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Wicker. I want to thank the Secretary for his help 
in Mississippi. Mr. Secretary, you have been visiting with us 
several times, and we appreciate it and look forward to having 
you again.
    As you know, we have had a long-time, decades-long flooding 
problem in the Pearl River Basin. Today, I want to talk to you 
about the Pearl River Basin Flood Control Project. You were 
kind enough to visit with us last August, usually the driest 
month in Mississippi. Perhaps providentially, we had a terrible 
flood in Jackson while you were there, and you were able to see 
firsthand the problem that we have had for years and years and 
years.
    This involves the capital city of our State, the largest 
municipality in our State, and the largest county, and also two 
of our other most popular counties, Rankin County and Madison 
County. It seems that we are getting to a point with the Pearl 
River Flood Control Project that we are about to really make 
some progress.
    Just two months ago, Mr. Secretary, you issued a memorandum 
for Lieutenant General Spellmon. The memo outlines a 2023 
timeline for this Pearl River Flood Control Project. This would 
be initial public engagement this month, May of this year, 
June, finalize the draft report of the project, July and 
August, complete environmental reviews and revise the project 
report based on public comments, September, review the final 
report, and fall of this year, a decision by you, Secretary 
Connor, on the project.
    Also, the memo mentions that there should be a sense of 
urgency within the Corps to provide the people of Jackson and 
surrounding areas with effective solutions to their flooding.
    How are we doing on this, and are we going to be able to 
adhere to the timeline which you presented a month before last?
    Mr. Connor. Senator, thank you for hosting last August. I 
think those moments are pretty significant.
    There was some kind of sign with the amount of rain that we 
both experienced when we were touring the project. We came back 
and allocated very significant resources to move forward with 
the project, not just the completion of the studies and this 
aspect, but also moving forward with project construction. So 
we do see it as a high priority.
    We are moving forward well. We have a very whole-of-office 
approach between my office, the Army Corps' headquarters, the 
division, and the district in working through issues on a 
constant ongoing basis and working with the local sponsor to 
fill in any holes that exist with respect to the feasibility 
report that they provided us.
    There are some issues that need to be addressed. I think we 
are generally consistent with the schedule that I outlined, 
although we might be in the 30-day, 60-day range of having to 
extend that because of some of the technical work that needs to 
be supplemented.
    But we will engage the public in May of this year. We will 
move forward with the environmental reviews, take that input, 
and try and move forward to ensure and basically, we have to 
check all the boxes, which is this has to provide the locals, 
the plan has to provide the same amount of flood protection 
that was envisioned originally, it has to be environmentally 
acceptable, it can't impact downstream communities or States. 
And we have put a fourth criteria on there. It can't impact the 
other infrastructure needs that are being addressed through 
other mechanisms for Jackson, Mississippi.
    That review is going to be a thorough one. I will keep you 
posted on the timeline. It may shift a little, but this will 
continue to be an all-hands-on-deck approach, Senator.
    Senator Wicker. So, if it shifts, it will be a matter of 
weeks, you think?
    Mr. Connor. Thirty to 60 days is what I am anticipating at 
most, based on what we know now.
    Senator Wicker. After decades and decades of working on 
this, I suppose I could accept a matter of 30 or 60 days. The 
memorandum also states that the Corps will look at 
comprehensive benefits that may be derived from the proposed 
project. I know you are aware we have a water system problem in 
Jackson, and just so many infrastructure problems, as well as 
economic development disadvantages.
    Can you assure us that the final flood control project will 
adhere to your direction that it provide comprehensive benefits 
and take all of those into consideration?
    Mr. Connor. Absolutely, Senator. The team has taken that to 
heart. We will ensure that we meet the four criteria that I 
just mentioned. But we also want to understand the collective, 
additional benefits that the community sees from this flood 
control project and ensure that we document that and highlight 
those as we do our work.
    Senator Wicker. Let me just say, I cannot tell you how much 
this means to us in Mississippi and how appreciative we are 
that the Corps of Engineers is, at this point, really focused 
in on this. It will mean the world to a great number of 
residents in this flood-prone area. We are very grateful for 
your help.
    Mr. Connor. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Carper. Senator Wicker, thanks for those questions.
    Next, we are going to recognize Senator Fetterman. Thank 
you for joining us today.
    I am going to run off to the Finance Committee for a few 
minutes. I will be back shortly. After Senator Fetterman, it 
will be Senator Cramer, and Senator Kelly has graciously agreed 
to hold the gavel while I am out of the room. Thanks.
    With that, Senator Fetterman, you are recognized. Please 
proceed.
    Senator Fetterman. Thank you, Chairman. Lieutenant General 
Spellmon, I want to start by discussing the Lower Mon Project 
in Southwestern Pennsylvania. Are you familiar with it?
    General Spellmon. Yes, sir.
    Senator Fetterman. Locks and dams Two, Three, and Four on 
the Monongahela River are one of the oldest currently operating 
facilities on the river. They experience the highest volume of 
the commercial traffic. Modernizing and improving and 
navigating would reduce the bottleneck delays.
    The Army Corps has replaced the 100-year-old dam at 
Braddock, and I actually was the mayor of that community. I 
remember going on a tour when I was mayor, years back, with Bob 
Casey, too. As you know, now he is my mentor here in the Senate 
and in Pennsylvania.
    One, I thank you for that work there, because that has been 
very helpful and transformative. With that being as it is, do 
you have a timeline for the locks and dam removal of Elizabeth 
and the new larger lock construction for Charleroi? What 
benefits can residents expect when it may be finished?
    General Spellmon. Yes, sir. First, the timeline. The new 
lock at Charleroi will be operational this December, December 
2023. Then we will have the lock and dam removed at Elizabeth 
in December 2025.
    Sir, the benefits are immense. The new lock at Charleroi 
will be able to pass nine barges at a time. Nine barges, that 
equates, the cargo on nine barges equates to 600 trucks on the 
road, 600 diesel engines, 600 drivers.
    Senator Fetterman. Six hundred trucks? Really, that is the 
equivalent? Wow.
    General Spellmon. Yes, sir, 600. The economic benefit to 
that, when we did this feasibility study, was $200 million a 
year, so that lock renovation is going to pay for itself in 
five years. These inland waterways, sir, they are national 
treasures, and we appreciate all the leadership from Congress 
in helping us maintain and modernize them.
    Senator Fetterman. I kind of, just like my colleague, 
Senator Wicker, I share my thanks and appreciation for the work 
that is done. Again, living right there, I can see the kind of 
impact that it has there. Really, I am just grateful for that.
    I have a second question, and that is to Secretary Connor. 
I understand that there are a number of sections in WRDA 2022 
that will need a formal implantation and guidance, including 
the scope and flood risk management feasibility studies. This 
provision is important for climate change, and it will consider 
impacts on our communities.
    How can the Corps look into implementing the provision in 
the face of climate change, and what more can be done?
    Mr. Connor. Thank you, Senator, for the question. I think 
it is a very important one.
    As I mentioned earlier, I just want to assure you, that 
section is one of the ones that we will be issuing 
implementation guidance on, and we have already gotten that 
process underway.
    I would just note that we are not waiting for that 
guidance. I think the concepts incorporated in that provision 
are consistent with the directive that my predecessor issued, 
that we should be looking at comprehensive benefits as we 
analyze and do our studies. That comprehensive benefits 
necessitates that we be looking at climate change and new 
challenges for any of the water resources infrastructure 
projects that we do.
    The breadth of review that I think is anticipated by that 
particular section will be good for us to document to move 
forward and incorporate that as fundamental to our studies, but 
we are already looking at those challenges right now and trying 
to incorporate them in the work that we do.
    Senator Fetterman. Thank you.
    I cede the remainder of the time toward Senator Kelly.
    Senator Kelly.
    [Presiding.] Thank you, Senator Fetterman.
    Senator Cramer?
    Senator Cramer. Thank you, Senator Kelly, and thank you 
both for being here. Right up front, I, too, appreciate not 
only the work you do, but the accessibility that both of you 
have given to me has been generous, and hopefully it is helpful 
to your work, but it is certainly helpful to mine.
    With that, Mr. Connor, the ice has finally melted on most 
of the Missouri River up in North Dakota, but it has been a 
long winter. As you know, as we have talked about, I spend a 
lot of time with the Standing Rock Tribe and the leadership 
down there. Chairwoman Janet Alkire and Vice Chairman Frank 
Jamerson are especially interested in your projects.
    I know you have said that you would like to go down there. 
I really hope we can get something scheduled this summer. I am 
very committed to it, and I hope you are, as well, to get down 
there and just spend some time with them. They have some 
wonderful projects. As you know, they have incredible water 
resources down there, and we would sure like to see you. 
Together, I think the two of us could do some good, so I would 
love to host you.
    Mr. Connor. I would just like to let you know that we will 
be there for the executive leadership meetings with the Corps 
this coming week, and I will spend a little bit of time with 
the Tribe. But Senator, there are a lot of things going on up 
there. I would be happy to make a return engagement with you. I 
share your views.
    Senator Cramer. I appreciate that very much. I know that 
Frank and Janet and the others are going to be grateful just to 
hear that.
    General Spellmon, I also want to thank you for extending 
the comment period for the EA on the Snake Creek embankment. It 
is really, really important. I want you also to know, I have 
talked to the Governor, I have talked to the economic 
developers, and they are going to get you all the information 
that they need, at least the ball is in their court now, to 
make a good assessment.
    My only admonition would be just, again, to stress the 
importance of an all-encompassing perspective that recognizes 
that it provides water for about 50 percent of the population 
of North Dakota. It is obviously important to development, 
economic development, some billions of dollars, actually, worth 
of projects that will require that water. Thanks for extending 
that.
    General Spellmon. Yes, sir. We remain on path to remove 
that 43-foot head differential at the Snake Creek embankment by 
the end of this calendar year, sir. We will subsequently update 
the water control manual, and then we will mitigate that risk 
with an increased inspection regime, should the water elevation 
reach those levels.
    Senator Cramer. I appreciate that a lot. It is obviously an 
important project.
    To both of you, I think it was just last week. Time is so 
deceiving around here. Our weeks are short, but they seem like 
they are long, from time to time. Senator Heinrich and I 
introduced the LAKES Act. It is the Lake Access Keeping 
Economies Strong Act. I know the Corps hasn't taken an official 
position on the legislation, but your teams have been very 
helpful in providing the information and technical support to 
help us draft the legislation.
    What it does, for those who don't know, it expands the 
opportunities to improve and develop recreational facilities. A 
lot of people don't think of the Corps of Engineers as a 
recreational manager, but boy, it is incredible, some of the 
best assets that we have in North Dakota are your assets.
    What it does, it does two things, basically. It allows the 
Corps to retain recreation fees at the area, at the sites where 
they are collected. And this is something, as you know, in your 
background, Secretary, from BOR, it is common throughout the 
Federal Government, just not with the Corps of Engineers.
    The other thing that it does is it allows the Corps, gives 
them more latitude to partner with non-government 
organizations, support organizations, nonprofit entities.
    Again, thanks to you and your staff. They have been very 
helpful. If the opportunity presents itself or you see other 
opportunities, we want to be able to advance this. I think with 
Senator Heinrich's help and his understanding, we can do that.
    It is hard, as a former tourism director, let me just tell 
you, it is hard to exaggerate the value of the incredible 
resources you all have, so any thoughts you have on that, I 
would be grateful.
    Mr. Connor. I will judiciously stay away from opining on 
the legislation, but I will say thank you very much. I think 
five agencies have that authority already, including the Bureau 
of Reclamation, which has a similar mission, although our 
recreation mission is significantly larger. I think we have the 
largest number of campgrounds, or we are second to the Forest 
Service. I can't remember exactly.
    But the bottom line is, it takes some pressure off of our 
budget and, I think, greatly has the capacity to provide 
improved services and facilities for those using those 
recreation facilities. We look forward to taking a look at that 
legislation, but thank you for thinking of us, because that is 
a very important part of our mission.
    Senator Cramer. I know that the support groups, the 
nonprofits, the people that use the assets are going to be very 
grateful as well. So we will work on getting that done without 
your opinion, but we are grateful for your support.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you.
    Secretary Connor, General Spellmon, it is great seeing you 
both again.
    I want to start off by discussing two priority flood 
control projects in the State of Arizona. Both projects have 
been authorized for construction, and both have received full 
Federal funding, but neither project has been able to break 
ground yet.
    I understand that the Los Angeles District continues to 
work with the local sponsors to get these projects shovel-
ready, but I would appreciate a commitment from both of you 
that the projects don't get off-track.
    The first one is the Little Colorado River Winslow Levee 
Project. This project would provide long overdue flood 
protection to the entire town of Winslow, Arizona.
    Will you both commit to work with the Los Angeles District 
to ensure a design agreement is signed by the end of July, if 
not sooner?
    General Spellmon. Yes, sir, absolutely. We are on track to 
sign that design agreement with Navajo County in July.
    Senator Kelly. Mr. Connor?
    Mr. Connor. Absolutely. It is an incredibly important 
project from a lot of different perspectives.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you.
    Then, the second one is Rio de Flag, which would help to 
comprehensively address the flood risk in Flagstaff, Arizona. 
This region struggled in recent years with significant flooding 
that is cause by the wildfire burn scars up in the hills. The 
Corps has been working on this project since the early 2000's.
    Will you both commit, again, to work with the Los Angeles 
District to ensure that the district and the local sponsor have 
the resources they need to complete all of the real estate 
transactions by this September?
    General Spellmon. Yes, sir. Certainly, we will put all the 
resources we can. The first three phases, as you know, of this 
project are complete. Flagstaff is having some challenges that 
we are working through on nine remaining parcels with the BNSF 
Railroad. We are meeting regularly. We are putting all of our 
experts in the room to try to expedite this negotiation as 
quickly as possible.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you.
    Mr. Connor. I am committed to also helping work through 
those remaining issues. I think they are in a better position 
than they have been historically to work through those real 
estate issues, and we will continue to monitor and support.
    Senator Kelly. That is great. If we meet this timeline, 
this project is going to be ready for construction next year, 
and if we face delays, it might not be able to break ground 
until 2025 at the earliest. So thank you for that.
    To Mr. Connor, I want to discuss an issue that I understand 
you have done a lot of work on, and that is drought in the 
Western United States. As you know, this year has been great. 
We have had a wetter winter than usual, and that has resulted 
in a significant snowpack, but we still face a significant 
drought.
    The solution to this problem is clear. We need to invest in 
some long-term conservation efforts, which will help prevent 
water loss. It would also help to increase storage capacity. We 
need to develop some new sources of water.
    Last July, you wrote a memo spelling out the existing 
authorities that the Army Corps had to respond to drought 
challenges. We then built upon that memo in WRDA 2022, which 
provided some more authority for the Corps to respond to 
drought and water conservation needs.
    Mr. Connor, in light of the new provisions included in WRDA 
2022, do you plan to update your July 2022 memo on drought 
authorities?
    Mr. Connor. Thank you for the question. I share your view. 
I was Commissioner of Reclamation in 2011 when we had a record 
year, and then by 2013 and 2014, we were doing drought 
contingency planning again. One year's bounty is not going to 
sustain the system overall.
    With respect to our role as part of a whole-of-government 
effort to build drought resilience, yes, we will. That memo 
directing the Corps to develop a long-term strategy is a 
living, breathing document that we will continue to update with 
new authorities. We have some specific approaches right now 
using the Environmental Infrastructure Program, using 
operations and the ability to change operations to provide more 
water, to look at how ecosystem restoration might take pressure 
off water supply in our tribal programs and planning programs.
    We are moving forward, but we will incorporate those new 
authorities into a long-term strategy, yes, Senator.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you. If the Corps was to identify a 
new, let's say, a new start project with drought reduction 
benefits, how well would that project compete for funding 
within the Corps and from OMB compared to a new start project 
which fit within one of the more traditional areas of the 
Corps, like things like flood control and navigation?
    Mr. Connor. I think, in general, Senator, it would compete 
well, because our goal would be moving forward to integrate 
multiple benefits of any particular project, whether it is 
large infrastructure or just how we manage water, how are we 
going to not only provide better flood control, look at how we 
might restore the environment as part of that flood control by 
slowing down water and letting it spread out where there is 
land. But then how we might also use that to recharge aquifers 
or to provide additional water supply. I think the key to 
improving the ability to compete for limited budget resources 
is to have those multiple benefits incorporated in any part of 
our projects.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Secretary.
    Senator Boozman?
    Senator Boozman. Thank you very much.
    We appreciate you all being here. I appreciate your hard 
work.
    Recently, the Air Force selected Ebbing Air Force Base in 
Fort Smith, Arkansas to serve as the home of the F-35 training 
mission for our Nation's partners and allies. This mission is 
being deemed critical to our Nation's national security as well 
as our partner nations' national security. Those aren't my 
words; those come from the very top on down.
    The Corps of Engineers in Little Rock, whom we enjoy 
working with, is responsible for the new construction for the 
mission at Ebbing and will be tasked to meet a really very 
tight turnaround. Will you both commit to giving the Little 
Rock District the resources it needs from the entire Corps of 
Engineers' enterprise to meet their deadlines?
    General Spellmon. Yes, sir. This falls under our military 
construction portfolio, sir.
    The important part here is we have been given $10 million 
from the Air Force to develop the area development plan. Sir, 
that will inform the detail designs moving forward and really 
helping get down to the level of detail we need to on the 
schedule. Yes, sir, you have my commitment to give them 
everything they need to deliver this important program.
    Senator Boozman. Okay.
    Mr. Connor. Senator, any way the Civil Works Program can 
support the military side of the house, we are happy to do 
that.
    Senator Boozman. Well, thank you all very much. I knew that 
was the case, but again, this is something, deadlines are 
tight, and it is just going to take everybody working together.
    The other thing is, I would like to also voice my support 
for the Cramer-Heinrich Bill. I am a cosponsor of that, too. We 
have really been working with that for several years.
    But you have problems at your parks, and you do a great job 
in the sense, especially now with people, I think, wanting to 
get out more after the pandemic and all that has occurred, but 
you have troubles right now in Arkansas, throughout the 
Midwest. You have a lot of flooding. Most of those campgrounds 
now are under water, the Mississippi campground, the list goes 
on and on.
    You have a lot of maintenance that has been deferred. You 
can fix things now, and it costs some money. You can defer 
that, and it costs more money, and then it comes to a point 
where you have to replace it, and it costs a lot of money.
    I do think that it is a bill that would make a lot of 
difference. If maybe 80 percent is too high, we can work with 
that, or whatever. But I do think that whatever money we did in 
that, you would actually receive benefit from, the cost-benefit 
would be very, very good, plus you would be able to update the 
campgrounds and make it such where you would have even more 
usage. I think it would actually pay for itself, but look at 
it. Again, your support, if somehow that could be acquired, 
would be very helpful.
    Mr. Connor. Thank you very much for recognizing what an 
important part of this mission and the value of those 
additional resources might provide.
    I did visit some recreational facilities last summer. You 
would not believe the lengths that our committed rangers go to 
try and ensure that the visitors have the best experience 
possible and have good facilities. We should make it a little 
easier for them, quite frankly.
    Senator Boozman. I understand.
    General Spellmon. Sir, I would just echo that commitment. 
This is an important part of our mission. I don't know the 
details of the legislation, but anything that supports our 
recreation function we fully support.
    Senator Boozman. The other thing is, right now, we are in 
the process, I am the Ranking Member on Agriculture. We are in 
the process of trying to pass a Farm Bill. We are going to get 
it passed this year.
    But it comes to mind, 40 percent of the products in 
Arkansas are exported. That is true throughout most of the 
Country. So, our inland waterways, our ports and harbors, are 
so vital.
    Can you talk a little bit about, again, the importance of 
that flow of trade, and what that means, not only to those 
farmers, but also the end users? Right now, we have the 
cheapest, safest food supply of any place in the world. What 
does that do to costs and things like that?
    General Spellmon. Yes, sir. I would just say, in your 
State, you have tows and barges, sometimes a couple, 15 barges 
together, and just to keep the analogy going, 15 barges, that 
is a thousand trucks, a thousand diesel engines, a thousand 
drivers that you don't need because of movement of cargo on the 
waterway. Sir, it just drives the cost down for goods and 
increases the speed of those goods getting to market.
    As I said earlier, these are national treasures, and we 
appreciate all the support we get from Congress in maintaining 
and upgrading those.
    Mr. Connor. Just a quick point. The old saying, we know the 
value of water when the well runs dry. Well, we know the value 
of the inland waterway system when the Mississippi River has 
low flows.
    Senator Boozman. I know. It was last summer where I wanted 
to just jump in it and claim that I could swim across it. 
Remarkable.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Connor. Significant immediate economic impact from 
drought when the Mississippi River is that low and we can't 
efficiently move product. The reverberates to the Agricultural 
Committee.
    So we are not looking just at how we manage the system in 
conjunction with industry. I think we had great communication 
and resources to keep the system dredged and moving, but we 
also want to do lessons learned and make sure we are continuing 
to try and ensure that the next drought doesn't have as deep an 
impact.
    Senator Boozman. It is remarkable. Now the Mississippi, we 
have actually closed off part of it, because it is so high. 
Thank you very much. Thank you.
    Senator Carper.
    [Presiding.] Senator Boozman, thank you.
    It is not every day we have the chairs of both the 
Environment and Public Works Committee and the Ranking Member 
of this committee, along with the Chair of the Ag Committee and 
the Ranking Member of the Ag Committee. It is a special day. 
Good to see you both.
    Senator Stabenow, you are on.
    Senator Stabenow. Good morning. It is wonderful to be with 
you, Mr. Chairman. Senator Boozman and I, I think we are on a 
tour today, all week now, talking about farm bills and forestry 
and all kinds of wonderful things, and public works, here, and 
the important infrastructure. It is great.
    It is wonderful to see you, Assistant Secretary. It is 
wonderful to see you, Lieutenant Colonel. We appreciate so much 
your work.
    I first have to start with a thank you, because when you 
look at the Corps' 2024 budget request, I see a lot of wins for 
Michigan. I appreciate it very much. Two new starts to 
identifying and addressing flood risk in both Southeast 
Michigan and Midland County, two important projects that I was 
pleased to author as part of WRDA in 2022.
    Also, Soo Locks, that we have talked about so many times, 
thank you for working with me to ensure that this critical 
project has a line item this year in the President's budget.
    I do want to say though, that as grateful as I am, I note 
this funding falls short of the full 2024 capability. You and I 
want to get this done, I know.
    Assistant Secretary Connor, as you know, any unscheduled 
outage at the Soo Locks would devastate the economy. I am going 
to fight tooth and nail to make sure we are in a good place on 
the appropriations side, but I need your help to make sure that 
this is in the work plan, and I wondered if you might speak to 
that.
    Can I continue to count on you to make this vital project 
and the funding a priority and to help keep it on schedule?
    Mr. Connor. Yes, Senator. Soo Locks, for all the reasons we 
have discussed and that you have identified today will continue 
to be a very high priority. We have tried to plug the gap with 
those cost overruns through additional resources from 
Infrastructure Investment and Job Act, the work plan money we 
had earlier this year, the budget request. We will continue to 
work with you.
    We have the contracts identified with the options. We want 
to minimize the additional prospects of cost overruns by trying 
to meet those options. We will continue to be in very close 
coordination with you, Senator.
    Senator Stabenow. Thank you so much. As we know, they have 
been working hard, and when we talk about cost, inflation is 
not our friend on this, and has been a real challenge. But I 
think they have been doing a good job and working really hard 
on this, and efficiently on this.
    Speaking of projects that are critical to the Great Lakes, 
let us talk Brandon Road Lock and Dam. Lieutenant General 
Spellmon, you know that this is the linchpin to halting the 
terrible Asian carp from getting into the Great Lakes. I have a 
fish and a lock that keep me up every night as to what will 
happen. I feel like we are on borrowed time on both, frankly.
    I have been working on this project for nearly a decade, 
having secured $226 million in the Infrastructure Law funding. 
We increased the Federal cost share as part of WRDA. I thought 
we were finally ready for construction. However, now it is my 
understanding that the construction phase of the project is on 
hold until the Army Corps and the State sign a project 
partnership agreement, and unfortunately the carp, they are a 
ticking time bomb. They don't wait. The fish aren't waiting 
around for project agreements.
    Lieutenant General Spellmon, given the stakes, is the 
Brandon Road project a priority? If so, do I have your 
commitment to do whatever it takes to get this Power Purchase 
Agreement signed as soon as possible so construction can begin?
    General Spellmon. Yes, ma'am. This is absolutely a priority 
for us for all of the reasons that you have outlined.
    Committing to do whatever it takes is a bit outside of my 
authority at the moment. As I mentioned in my opening 
statement, delivery of these projects, it is a team sport.
    There are several things that the non-Federal sponsor is 
asking from the Corps that would require legislative changes 
and even policy changes. So we are sending a team out from our 
headquarters this month to meet with our non-Federal sponsors.
    I just want to make sure that they have a firm 
understanding of what our left and right limits are, 
statutorily and then from policy, from a policy perspective. 
But we want to get to that signed PPA so we can unlock that 
$225 million that you secured for us and getting to 
construction.
    Senator Stabenow. Well, I am happy to work with you in any 
way possible and communicating with the States and signing. It 
has to be clear what you can and can't do with the money that 
we have, and that we really are, this is a ticking time bomb. 
We have to move. We are ready to move, so I will look forward 
with you to getting that done.
    General Spellmon. Thanks, ma'am.
    Senator Carper. Senator Stabenow, thanks so much for 
joining us and working with us on, as you put together the 
Agriculture Bill, you and Senator Boozman, and we look forward 
to making sure we are joined at the hip. Thank you.
    Senator Mullin, you are up. Thanks. Welcome.
    Senator Mullin. Thank you, Chairman, and thank you guys for 
being here.
    General, I will start with you. As you know, Section 8358 
of the Water Resources Development Act of 2022 directly 
provides the city of Bartlesville in Oklahoma the opportunity 
to secure water storage rights from Copan Lake, also in 
Oklahoma. General Spellmon, would you agree that a growing city 
such as Bartlesville, like many growing cities in the Country, 
needs affordable, that is the key word there, affordable access 
to water storage to continue their growth?
    General Spellmon. Yes, Senator, absolutely.
    Senator Mullin. I want to bring something to your 
attention. I don't know if you are aware of it or not, but Lake 
Copan was built in the 1980's. In 1981, the Corps acquired 
4,750 acre feet of water storage for Lake Copan. That was 40 
years ago, right?
    Now, the city of Bartlesville is trying to purchase that 
from you guys. In 2020, they also worked out a deal with the 
Corps of Engineers to buy water from the lake at roughly $81 
per acre foot. Right now, they are currently in negotiations 
wanting to buy that 4,750 feet of water from the Corps of 
Engineers, but the Corps of Engineers wants to charge $1,181 
per acre foot.
    Would you consider that affordable?
    General Spellmon. Sir, this is what the legislation, the 
formula for these pricing constructs, it is not a Corps policy. 
It is not a policy from the Secretary. The formula is given to 
us in the 1958 Water Supply Act.
    Senator Mullin. The way that I understand that, sir, is 
that the Army Corps of Engineers can agree to charge less, but 
you don't normally do, but you do have the flexibility to do 
so.
    General Spellmon. I am not aware of any flexibility to 
stray from the legislation, sir. I would have to look into 
that. The statute is very clear on the pricing methodology.
    Senator Mullin. So, how do you suggest moving forward in 
this? Because when you are trying to recover the cost of a lake 
that was obviously really expensive to build, it is sitting 
there for 40 years, no one has purchased it because no one can 
afford it. The taxpayer dollars are holding the bill.
    What is our solution?
    General Spellmon. Sir, unfortunately, today, it requires 
legislation, piecemeal legislation.
    Senator Mullin. What is the legislation you are needing for 
flexibility?
    General Spellmon. The WRDA provisions from 2020 and 2022 
for Lake Bartlesville have reduced that cost to your water 
suppliers to $74 an acre foot, so that is the maximum amount 
that we can charge.
    I will tell you that I have 145 water supply storage 
contracts like this across the Country. The average cost per 
acre foot is $300 per acre foot.
    Sir, I would just say, when you compare that with other 
water suppliers across the Country, this is----
    Senator Mullin. Three hundred dollars is fine. We are 
talking about a $1,000, or nearly $1,200.
    General Spellmon. Sir, I have some ideas on how we can go 
about this moving forward. The problem here is there is a large 
renovation contract associated with Lake Copan, and 
unfortunately, a small percentage of a large figure gets spread 
across all the users. So that is what they were experiencing. 
We have seen this in other corners as well.
    I think there are other ways to go about this, and I look 
forward to having this conversation with you.
    Senator Mullin. That is what the conversation is about. 
Sir, if you have ideas about this, I am looking for solutions 
that this committee can bring forward. This isn't just going to 
be a one-off situation on Bartlesville. This is something that 
is going to be facing a lot of municipalities moving forward, 
because the cost of everything is skyrocketing.
    What is it that the committee needs to be looking at, 
legislatively speaking, to fix this?
    Mr. Connor. Senator, I just wanted to add onto what General 
Spellmon said. We are happy to look at the legislative 
limitations here, and I trust the General has already looked at 
that, so we will get back to you and let you know specifically 
the issue.
    To your point on policy, I agree. Any revenue is better 
than no revenue. We want to maximize the use of existing 
infrastructure to serve communities in different ways, because 
that is going to be the cheapest and less environmentally 
damaging approach.
    Senator Mullin. This has been sitting for over 40 years and 
hasn't been sold because no one can afford it. So this would be 
a perfect opportunity to show how we can work together with 
agencies to create the flexibility. I know the Chairman and the 
Ranking Member would both agree that this is something that 
needs to be addressed.
    Mr. Connor. There is good policy here to be made, Senator.
    Senator Mullin. Great. If you could, get back to us, and 
let us know what we can do on our side to give you that 
flexibility. I look forward to hearing from you. I yield back.
    Senator Carper. Thanks, Senator Mullin.
    Senator Capito, if you have another question or two you 
would like to ask, or comments, please do.
    Senator Capito. I have one question, just a comment. First 
of all, thanks to both of you. These are massive amounts of 
dollars, but as you can tell, the interest from the committee, 
massive amounts of impacts in communities in all kinds of ways.
    Assistant Secretary, you mentioned the word reprogramming. 
That brought back some, I would say, not the greatest memories 
of some experiences I have had in past years with the Corps. I 
have been here a while.
    Here is my concern. We have all these projects, and you 
reach a point of cost overruns, we have already talked about 
it; things are more expensive than we think. Then, we think 
they are getting delayed for one reason or another, so you are 
looking at maybe six projects, I am just using this as an 
example, six projects, and all of a sudden, project No. 6 is 
starting to fail, but these other five are moving and, as the 
General said, completing projects is really important to the 
Corps.
    Who makes the decision to pull the funding, then, from 
project No. 6 that is flailing over here? Is this what you mean 
by reprogramming? Do you reprogram away from what we would 
think would be a project that is going to be happening in our 
State into maybe, another project within our State or within 
our Corps District? Is that what reprogramming means to you?
    Mr. Connor. Senator, I think my staff already seizes up 
when I use the word reprogramming because of those specific 
issues. There are technical aspects of it, too.
    But yes, fundamentally, I think we need to look at where a 
project is not proceeding. As I highlighted in my oral 
statement, we have had discussions with stakeholders who have 
involvement in a series of projects, they may be the one 
suggesting we should be proceeding.
    Bottom line is, I don't know if reprogramming was the right 
word, but are we looking at where we haven't yet allocated 
resources, whether a project is going to proceed, and whether 
we need to look at trying to move funds to try and complete a 
project so that we can move forward and fund other projects in 
the future, yes.
    I am thinking about that. That authority rests in my 
office, but it doesn't work unless I am transparent with all of 
you in any of the interests involved.
    Senator Capito. I think that is probably why I seize up, 
because I think that the decision that is made within your 
office, whereas we have already made the decision legislatively 
to move in a certain direction, so I do think communication and 
transparency is the key here.
    I am not naive enough to think that, well, we gave you all 
the money you are ever going to need, and you need to do all 
these projects, and life is never going to change there. I 
realize there are change orders, there are all kinds of things 
that you find in the process of different projects that maybe 
were unexpected or circumstances changed, or we can't find the 
work force, whatever the issue is.
    But I do believe that the transparency with which you move 
forward on these decisions is absolutely critical. From a 
public servant point of view, as an elected leader, when you go 
to the mayor of your small town and say, we are going to have a 
levee here, and we are going to solve your flooding problem, 
and then all of a sudden, you go back to the Corps and they go, 
well, we had to go ahead and move that to another project, 
without our knowledge, without at least, I understand maybe we 
don't be included in the project reprogramming issues, but at 
least having us aware of it, we can soften the blow.
    I don't want to have to do that. I want everything that we 
have planned for and that we have put into legislation and we 
have worked with you all on to be able to work to completion. 
But I do understand the reality. Sometimes, that makes it more 
difficult.
    I would thank you both, your open communication with me, 
and certainly as the Ranking Member on this committee, it has 
been very much appreciated, and I appreciate all the good, hard 
work that you do every day.
    I am going to take my leave and do my constitutional duty, 
which is to vote on the floor of the Senate. Thank you, Mr. 
Chair.
    Senator Carper. Thanks so much.
    I am going to ask a couple of questions, maybe, for the 
record, and then go vote, as well. The first one would be for 
Secretary Connor.
    Secretary Connor, as you well know, Congress included some 
critical new authorities in WRDA 2022 to increase assistance to 
disadvantaged communities. I was pleased to see that the budget 
focuses on environmental justice and that the Corps has issued 
guidance for WRDA 2020 and for WRDA 2022 authorities to support 
the disadvantaged communities. Will you take a minute or two to 
explain for us the significance of this recent guidance, and 
how do you plan to prioritize devoting resources to 
disadvantaged communities?
    Mr. Connor. Absolutely, Mr. Chairman. These authorities are 
incredibly important and allow us to do good work on a broader 
scale than I think we would otherwise be able to do.
    First of all, in the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, 
Congress gave us express direction to not just be beholden to 
the highest benefit-cost ratios. That allowed us to choose 
projects to fund that would broaden the benefits to communities 
on a larger scale.
    Second of all, we want to improve outreach, and there are 
existing programs, whether they are the planning assistance to 
States, flood plain management services, tribal partnership 
program, we are trying to use the guides that I provided to 
broaden our outreach so that we can do work with more 
communities.
    Finally, the specific provisions in WRDA 2020, those we are 
moving out with guidance, economically disadvantaged 
communities definition, so that we can use that to implement 
the programs that Congress has already provided funding for. 
This is the pilot program to do investigations for economically 
disadvantaged communities.
    We have $30 million in the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law 
waiting to be released. After we finalize that guidance, which 
is significant guidance, so we have to have a process there, as 
well as the CAP projects that are going to use that funding.
    The direction has been great. I think we are moving forward 
with our smaller programs, and we are trying to ensure we are 
taking the provisions that you have enacted and run with them.
    Senator Carper. Thank you.
    I am going to leave another question for the record. It 
deals with economic growth and project delivery. I will just 
submit that one for the record.
    Before I turn over the gavel to Senator Markey to close us 
out, I am going to give just a really short closing statement, 
with some housekeeping, if you don't mind.
    Every State is significantly, maybe dramatically affected, 
by the work that you lead across the Country, and to all the 
men and women who report to you, who look to you for 
leadership. We want to thank you, and we want to thank them for 
doing extraordinary things.
    Every member of this committee has great interest in the 
work that you do, and really, great gratitude. The same is true 
of all 100 Senators. We appreciate very much what you do with 
your lives, serving our Country and our respective States.
    Before we adjourn, before I give the gavel to Senator 
Markey, I just want to mention that Senators will be allowed 
to, invited, rather, to submit written questions for the record 
by 4 p.m. on Wednesday, May 17th, which is two weeks from 
today. We will compile those questions. We will send them to 
you, and we will ask you to reply by Wednesday, May 31st.
    I am not going to adjourn this hearing. We are going to 
hand the gavel to Senator Markey, and when he finishes with his 
questions, if he would just adjourn the hearing, that would be 
great. Thank you.
    Again, our thanks to all of you. It was great to see you. 
Take care.
    Senator Markey.
    [Presiding.] Thank you, Mr. Chairman, very much. There is a 
roll call on the floor of the Senate right now, which why the 
members were scrambling to get over there. I am running back 
over from the Senate floor to be here to take the gavel from 
Chairman Carper.
    It is great to see you again, Assistant Secretary Connor, 
General Spellmon.
    The Army Corps owns the Cape Cod bridges, which are nearly 
90 years old. The bridges are structurally deficient, and they 
are in need of desperate replacement. The Bourne and the 
Sagamore Bridges are the only route for people to drive to and 
from Cape Cod. I will say that again: it is the only way for 
people to drive to and from Cape Cod, Massachusetts.
    The Federal Government, almost 90 years ago, built two 
bridges, which make it possible for that to be possible. We 
thank the Federal Government for building those two bridges 
back then, at the height of the New Deal. Great work by 
President Roosevelt, great visions for these public works 
projects. In the same way they were building the Tennessee 
Valley Authority, they were building these other facilities all 
across the Country, especially for electrical generation.
    In Massachusetts, they built two bridges for us, and my 
colleagues in the Massachusetts congressional delegation and I 
right now are extremely concerned that if a severe storm 
strikes the Cape, residents and visitors could be unable to 
evacuate the Cape and the islands, because it is the only way 
off. Replacing these bridges is not just a matter of 
convenience. It is a matter of safety.
    Assistant Secretary Connor, do you agree that replacing the 
Cape Cod bridges is a critical safety project?
    Mr. Connor. Senator, I do.
    Senator Markey. Thank you. Obviously, we are very fortunate 
that Hurricane Sandy did not hit us, but if it did, it would 
have devastated Cape Cod. It would have just devastated it, and 
people would have been told to evacuate, to get out before Cape 
Cod was inundated. We obviously need these bridges to be 
replaced in order for that safety concern to be dealt with.
    The Army Corps owns these bridges. These are Federal 
bridges. The Corps and the Federal Government have a financial 
responsibility here. In fact, in 2020, the Corps estimated that 
rehabilitating the bridges over the next 50 years would cost 
nearly $800 million. Just for the Army Corps, for the Federal 
Government, which owns the bridges, it would cost them $800 
million just to maintain them over the next 50 years.
    Massachusetts has agreed to take ownership of the new Cape 
Cod bridges as long as the Corps contributes its fair share to 
help to replace them. The stakes are clear: if the Corps 
doesn't help replace the bridges, it will have to spend even 
more money to maintain them over the next 50 years.
    Assistant Secretary Connor, would giving the bridges to 
Massachusetts save money for the Corps in the long run, in your 
opinion?
    Mr. Connor. In my opinion, yes, it would. We would no 
longer have the ongoing operations and maintenance and 
significant rehab costs into the future related to the bridges, 
so we think this is a good approach.
    Senator Markey. O&M is operation and maintenance?
    Mr. Connor. Operation and maintenance, that is correct.
    Senator Markey. The Army Corps, otherwise, would have to 
contribute to keeping those bridges functional.
    I agree with you. The Corps' most fiscally responsible 
action is to help replace the Cape Cod bridges now, and we need 
to do this project in a smart way. Both Massachusetts and the 
Corps want Massachusetts to manage the bridges project.
    After all, the Corps specializes in water projects, not 
building bridges. This is an anomaly for the Corps, these 
bridges. I don't know, is there another instance across the 
whole Country where the Corps owns the bridges?
    Mr. Connor. We own more bridges than I can remember, but it 
is a significant part of the portfolio, and you are exactly 
right. It is not our specialty. It has come with our inland 
waterways and intercoastal waterways.
    Senator Markey. So, Secretary Connor, does the Corps have 
significant experience in building bridges over the last 20 or 
30 years?
    Mr. Connor. Not in the last 20, 30 years. We have 
experience, but that is experience that others have much 
better.
    Senator Markey. Yes, and most of the people who had the 
experience are already retired from the Corps who worked for 
the Corps. Would you agree with that?
    Mr. Connor. Absolutely.
    Senator Markey. Yes, so this is something that would have 
to be developed. It makes no sense, in other words, for the 
Corps to construct these new bridges.
    Unfortunately, the Corps lacks the authority to transfer 
money to Massachusetts for this project, and that makes it 
difficult for the Corps to help fund this project and allow 
Massachusetts to construct the new bridges. I am glad the Corps 
proposed legislative language to address this issue. With a 
narrow fix, we can construct new bridges in a smart, fiscally 
responsible way.
    Assistant Secretary Connor, does the legislative language 
proposed by the Corps give the Corps sweeping new authority to 
issue grants?
    Mr. Connor. This is not a grant, Senator. The authority 
that we have submitted would just provide us a mechanism to 
provide money to an entity that is much better positioned to 
replace the bridges, take us out of that business, and I think 
it is unique to this situation with bridges. It is larger than 
just Cape Cod, but it is specific to this particular aspect of 
the portfolio which we shouldn't have.
    Senator Markey. I think that is right. I urge my colleagues 
to support this small legislative tweak and ensure that this 
critical safety project can proceed.
    I thank you, Assistant Secretary Connor and your entire 
team, for all your help with this project that goes back years. 
Time is of the essence. We have to begin the job of actually 
replacing these bridges. We thank you for your assistance. Let 
me turn and recognize Senator Sullivan for his round of 
questions.
    Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Secretary 
Connor, General Spellmon, thank you, gentlemen.
    I just want to begin by doing a shoutout to both of you. I 
think you are both doing a really good job. It is not an easy 
position to be in, a really important position. I am on Armed 
Services, too, so I was saying, I kind of have dual oversight 
of you guys, because you are Army and EPW, Armed Services.
    I appreciate you and your team and all the hard work that 
you guys are doing. It is much appreciated and much needed for 
our Country, certainly for Alaska, so thanks. Both of you have, 
in my view, really good teams.
    Secretary Connor, I just wanted to reiterate, and you 
probably know where I am going with this. I think I have asked 
you to reiterate this 50 times. I am just doing it one more 
time, just to be safe.
    I am going to talk about Donlin. One of the hallmarks, and 
it is for both of you gentlemen, one of the unfortunate 
hallmarks, in my view, of the Biden Administration, 
particularly for big projects in my State that have gone 
through massive permitting by professional staff from the 
previous Administration, actually, from the previous two 
Administrations, Obama, Trump, we got things done, completed, 
records and decisions.
    This Administration loves to come back to Alaska and go, 
hmm, you know what, we are going to reopen this. We are going 
to reopen that. We are going to reopen this. They come up with 
excuses. It is Ambler; it is ANWR; it is Tongass; it is Willow; 
it is King Cove Road. It is just nonstop. Decisions that have 
been made, and they come back, usually to say, the previous 
Administration didn't consult enough.
    By the way, Secretary Connor, you and I have talked about 
this. Most of these are strongly supported by the Alaska Native 
people, these projects I just listed, and so when you have an 
Administration talk about environmental justice, racial equity, 
they seem to always forget indigenous people of Alaska. I know 
you haven't, but I am just making the point, because, and by 
the way, this is a broader issue. It turns America into a 
Banana Republic if we can't rely on previous Administrations 
that have done the due diligence, made records of decision, and 
then now we reopen them three, four, five, six years later? We 
might as well be Venezuela, right? It chills impact, chills 
investment opportunities.
    Mr. Secretary, you and I have talked ad nauseum, and 
Administrator Regan of the EPA and Assistant Administrator Fox, 
you guys have all, and I appreciate it, made commitments that 
the Donlin permits were issued five years ago, five years ago, 
and you see no reason to reopen those.
    As you know, there are some radical lower 48 environmental 
groups who are now trying to do this. Our Native leaders call 
them eco-colonialists, right, lower-48 groups that come up and 
tell the Native people what they need to do, kind of a second 
wave of colonialism that they call eco-colonialists. It is a 
term that I think really fits well.
    The Donlin project, as you know, is supported by the 
regional Alaska Native Corporation. It is on their land. Can I 
just get one more commitment from you guys, and I know you have 
done it a lot, but things are starting to percolate once again. 
These groups have a lot of power. The media loves them. This 
important project, that you see no reason to reopen these 
permit decisions, I know you have to consult, but if they file 
a lawsuit, just defend it. Defend it. That is your job, in my 
view. General, you and I have talked about it, Mr. Secretary.
    I just want a quick commitment on that. To his credit, the 
EPA Administrator, just a couple weeks ago, and Assistant 
Administrator Fox came in right here, same, said Senator, we 
are with you. We don't see any reason to do that.
    I would just like that commitment from you. It is 
important, because this is all percolating, and five years ago, 
we had a permit issued. Banana Republic-ville if we start 
opening these things up. General?
    General Spellmon. Sir, on the Donlin project, we have a 
valid permit. I am not aware of any discussions to reopen that 
decision.
    Senator Sullivan. Thank you. No reason to do that, five 
years old. OK, Mr. Secretary?
    Mr. Connor. Senator, as we have talked about before, 
nothing has changed with respect to my views on Donlin, and 
that is after we have done consultation. We have talked with 
proponents, opponents. It is in litigation now. We are 
defending the lawsuit.
    Senator Sullivan. Good. Thank you very much for that, both 
of you. I appreciate that you guys kept your word.
    It is not just support for Alaska and the Native people 
there. It is important for America. Five years, and now you are 
going to reopen a permit? You won't be able to get anything 
done in this Country.
    Let me just end, Mr. Chairman, really quickly, the Port of 
Nome, you guys have done a great job. I can't thank you enough. 
That is a nationally significant and important project, a very 
strategic Arctic port for America. The Corps has done a great 
job. Mr. Secretary, you have done a great job.
    I am sure you are aware that WRDA, last year, modified the 
cost-sharing formula for that deep draft port, which the Navy 
needs, the Coast Guard needs. It will help the communities out 
there.
    During our recent meeting, Major General Graham had stated 
that we can anticipate full support from the Administration in 
future years, moving and phasing. Can I just continue to get 
your commitment on that, given that the cost share changed?
    General Spellmon. Yes, sir. We appreciate, certainly, the 
$250 million that we received in the Bipartisan Infrastructure 
Law. We are getting ready. We are doing the design on the west 
causeway extension right now and looking forward to awarding 
that contract in 2024 and then also working on the design of 
the deepening for the channel. Yes, sir, you have our 
commitment.
    Senator Sullivan. Mr. Secretary?
    Mr. Connor. I would just go with what General Spellmon just 
said. We are committed to moving that forward. It increases the 
challenges, so with respect to the funding needs, obviously 
from the cost share change, but we are committed to moving 
forward with the project.
    Senator Sullivan. Great. Thanks again, both of you. I think 
your teams are doing a great job for Alaska, the Country, and 
we really appreciate it.
    Senator Markey. I thank Senator Sullivan.
    I note Senator Wicker is here. If you have any other 
comments you would like to make?
    Senator Wicker. No, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Markey. With that, and the thanks of the committee, 
we have completed this period of questioning and answering of 
our great witnesses today. We thank you both for your service 
and for all those who serve with you in the Army Corps. We 
thank you so much.
    With that, and again, with all of the procedural niceties 
that Chairman Carper has already laid out in terms of the 
rights of the committee and the request to the Army Corps to 
respond to questions in writing, this hearing is adjourned. 
Thank you.

    [Whereupon, at 12:02 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]