[Senate Hearing 118-17]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                          S. Hrg. 118-17

                       SECURING SOCIAL SECURITY:
                   ACCESSING PAYMENTS AND PRESERVING
                   THE PROGRAM FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                       SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS


                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                       PHOENIXVILLE, PENNSYLVANIA

                               __________

                            OCTOBER 16, 2023

                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-13

         Printed for the use of the Special Committee on Aging
         
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
        
                              __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
55-039 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2024                    
          
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                       SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING

              ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., Pennsylvania, Chairman

KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York      MIKE BRAUN, Indiana
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts      MARCO RUBIO, Florida
MARK KELLY, Arizona                  RICK SCOTT, Florida
RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia             J.D. VANCE, Ohio
JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania         PETE RICKETTS, Nebraska
                              ----------                              
               Elizabeth Letter, Majority Staff Director
                Matthew Sommer, Minority Staff Director
                         
                         
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                                                                   Page

Opening Statement of Senator Robert P. Casey, Jr., Chairman......     1

                           PANEL OF WITNESSES

Nancy Altman, JD, President, Social Security Works, Washington, 
  D.C............................................................     3
Jessica LaPointe, President of Council 220, American Federation 
  of Government Employees, Madison, Wisconsin....................     5
Hannah and Rowena Sullivan, Supplemental Security Income 
  Recipient and her Mother, York, Pennsylvania...................     6
Jennifer Burdick, Divisional Supervising Attorney, Supplemental 
  Security Income Unit, Community Legal Services of Philadelphia, 
  Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.....................................     7

                                APPENDIX
                      Prepared Witness Statements

Nancy Altman, JD, President, Social Security Works, Washington, 
  D.C............................................................    27
Jessica LaPointe, President of Council 220, American Federation 
  of Government Employees, Madison, Wisconsin....................    39
Hannah and Rowena Sullivan, Supplemental Security Income 
  Recipient and her Mother, York, Pennsylvania...................    61
Jennifer Burdick, Divisional Supervising Attorney, Supplemental 
  Security Income Unit, Community Legal Services of Philadelphia, 
  Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.....................................    64

                       Statements for the Record

American Federation of Government Employees District 3 Statement.    75

 
                       SECURING SOCIAL SECURITY:
                   ACCESSING PAYMENTS AND PRESERVING
                   THE PROGRAM FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS

                              ----------                              


                        Monday, October 16, 2023

                                        U.S. Senate
                                 Special Committee on Aging
                                                   Washington, D.C.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:08 a.m., in 
Phoenixville Senior, Center 153 Church Street, Phoenixville, 
Pennsylvania, Hon. Robert P. Casey, Jr., Chairman of the 
Committee, presiding.
    Present: Senator Casey

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR 
                 ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., CHAIRMAN

    The Chairman. The Senate Special Committee on Aging field 
hearing will come to order. The title of today's hearing is 
"Securing Social Security Payments and Preserving the Program 
for Future Generations."
    Today, we will be highlighting the services that the Social 
Security Administration that we know as SSA provides to 
beneficiaries, while also discussing how we can improve benefit 
delivery and support the Social Security Administration 
employees who are working to serve our Nation every day.
    The Social Security Act, crafted as part of a national plan 
to provide economic security for the Nation's workforce, was 
signed into law in 1935. Social Security serves over 66 million 
Americans, the majority of whom are retired Americans and their 
families. Without Social Security benefits, experts estimate 
that about four in ten Americans, four in ten Americans age 65 
or older would have incomes below the poverty line.
    Over two million retired Pennsylvanians, including more 
than 76,000 here in Chester County, are receiving Social 
Security benefits, according to SSA data from December 2021. 
The Social Security is also a lifeline to individuals with 
disabilities.
    In February of this year, about 8.8 million Americans 
received Social Security Disability Insurance, so-called SSDI, 
and for low-income individuals with a disability, including 
nearly 336,000 Pennsylvanians, the Supplemental Security Income 
Program, or SSI, provides need based benefits.
    Social Security is there for Americans in times of 
hardship, but as our population has aged, the demand for Social 
Security services has outpaced funding for SSA. We must protect 
and strengthen Social Security so Americans of every generation 
can continue to access this lifeline.
    I have led multiple calls for increased funding for SSA to 
modernize and support its workforce. In August of this year, I 
sent a letter to SSA to request an update on the agency's 
proposal to simplify the SSI application and make it available 
online.
    In September, I reintroduced my Surviving Widow and 
Widowers, Income Fair Treatment Act, or SWIFT Act. The SWIFT 
Act would expand benefits and adjust other outdated claiming 
restrictions for widows and widowers who on average have higher 
rates of poverty than other claimants.
    With the SWIFT Act, over one million individuals nationwide 
would receive increased benefit. I also want to focus today on 
several issues that disproportionally impact individuals with 
disabilities, like waiting periods and asset and income limits.
    Over the past decade, I have championed the creation and 
expansion of ABLE accounts, which allow people with 
disabilities to save passed the $2,000 asset limit without 
jeopardizing their other benefits.
    In July, I introduced a new bill called the ABLE Match Act, 
which would provide a federal dollar for dollar amount for ABLE 
account contributions made by lower income individuals. I am 
also supportive of the bipartisan effort in the Senate to lift 
the restrictive asset limits to $10,000 for an individual and 
$2,000 for a couple.
    We are going to cover several topics today and explore some 
very real challenges for the Social Security system. I don't 
want to lose sight of the tremendous work, the daily labor 
provided by SSA employees, that they do every day to serve 
beneficiaries and also the remarkable lifeline that Social 
Security is for so many Americans.
    Congress must work just as hard. We have an obligation in 
the Senate and the House to work just as hard as those 
employees work every day to strengthen and preserve the 
program, and the program is still under a lot of threats from 
very extreme Members of Congress.
    I also want to highlight the services that my office 
provides to constituents. Should you have any questions about 
benefits or need assistance working with SSA, please contact my 
office. You can submit a question online to Casey.senate.gov or 
give my office a call at (717) 231-7540. I will repeat that 
again for those who might be taking notes, (717) 231-7540, and 
we will mention that number again later today.
    Let's move to the introduction of our witnesses, and I will 
do that for--and what we will do is, I want to make sure we are 
going to do introductions and then directly go into testimony. 
We are going to do introductions first. I want to make sure we 
are doing this right. All introductions first.
    Well, let me start with Nancy Altman. Nancy, thanks for 
being here with us. Nancy is the President of Social Security 
Works and the chair of the Strengthen Social Security 
Coalition. She also serves as a member of the Social Security 
Advisory Board, a bipartisan agency established to advise the 
Federal Government on Social Security.
    Nancy, thanks for sharing both your expertise and your 
experience, and we are grateful you are here with us today. Our 
second witness is Ms. Jessica LaPointe. Jessica is based in 
Madison, Wisconsin. She traveled to be with us, and we are 
grateful.
    She is the President of Council 220 of the American 
Federation of Government Employees, or so called AFGE, A-F-G-E. 
AFGE represents 42,000 Social Security Administration 
employees. She is also the Vice President of AFGE Local 1346, 
as well as its legislative and political coordinator.
    In addition, Ms. LaPointe serves as a bilingual generalist 
claims specialist in the SSA field office in Madison, 
Wisconsin, so thanks very much, Jessica, for being with us 
today, and for sharing your expertise and your experience with 
the Committee.
    Our next two witnesses are Ms. Rowena and Ms. Hannah 
Sullivan from York, Pennsylvania. Hannah receives Social 
Security--has received Social Security benefits for 10 years, 
ever since she turned 18 years of age. Her mother, Rowena, has 
served--has worked, I should say, with her daughter and the 
Social Security Administration for the past decade to assist 
Hannah in accessing her benefits.
    Thank you both for being here and traveling from York, 
Pennsylvania, to be with us, and for sharing your experience 
with us, as well as your expertise, and finally, Jennifer 
Burdick. Jennifer works with Community Legal Services in 
Philadelphia, where she serves as a Divisional Supervising 
Attorney in the SSI unit.
    In this role, she represents clients, both children and 
adults, who are experiencing issues accessing or maintaining 
SSI benefits. Jennifer, thanks for sharing your both, your 
expertise and experience. I know you have spent a lot of time 
keeping our staff up to date, so thanks very much.
    We will turn to our witnesses for their statements, and we 
will turn to Ms. Altmann for your opening statement.

           STATEMENT OF NANCY ALTMAN, JD, PRESIDENT, 
            SOCIAL SECURITY WORKS, WASHINGTON, D.C.

    Ms. Altman. Thank you, Senator Casey. Our Social Security 
system is crucial to the nearly 67 million people, including 
three million Pennsylvanians who receive those earned benefits, 
and Social Security's field offices, like our post offices, are 
a part of our communities, the face of the government.
    Whether to expand or cut Social Security's modest benefits 
and whether to open or close field offices is a matter of 
values, not affordability. Importantly, not only are Social 
Security and its associated administrative costs completely 
affordable, they don't add even a penny to the Federal debt.
    Congress does not appropriate a penny for the 
administration of our Social Security system. Rather, it 
imposes annual limitations on how much of Social Security's 
$2.8 trillion surplus it can spend. Social Security is 
strikingly superior to its private sector counterparts. It's 
one shortcoming is that its benefits are inadequately low. 
Expanding those modest benefits is a solution.
    The nation is facing a retirement income crisis where too 
many workers will never be able to retire without drastic 
reductions in their standards of living. It is the most 
universal, secure, efficient, and fair source of retirement 
income.
    Expanding Social Security is a solution to that looming 
crisis. It is a part of the solution to the Nation's large and 
growing income and wealth inequality, which is not only deeply 
destabilizing, but has cost Social Security an estimated $1.4 
trillion in lost revenue in the past decade.
    Expanding Social Security also addresses the racial wealth 
gap and the squeeze on working families, juggling the needs of 
their children and aging parents. Social Security benefits 
should be increased for all current and future beneficiaries. 
In addition, it should be increased in targeted ways.
    Chairman Casey, you ought to be applauded for proposing 
targeted increases. Your SWIFT Act will improve the economic 
security of those devastated by the death of a spouse. Your 
Stop the Wait Act wisely repeals the five-month waiting period 
for receipt of disability benefits.
    Other important targeted expansions include credits for 
family caregivers and improved cost of living adjustment, an 
increase in benefits for the very old, repeal of WEP/GPO, and 
more, but benefits are useless if you can't claim them.
    Congress should allow the Social Security Administration to 
spend more of its accumulated surplus to restore the world 
class service it once provided and the American people both 
deserve and have paid for.
    Despite SSA's accumulated surplus of $2.8 trillion, largely 
Republican controlled Congresses have slashed SS budget, even 
as the number of beneficiaries has grown, with 10,000 baby 
boomers turning 65 every day. This has forced the agency to lay 
off thousands of workers, close field offices, and reduce 
hours.
    The public servants who work for SSA are extremely 
dedicated, but with staffing levels at the lowest in 25 years 
and with large backlogs morale is low. Relatedly, Americans 
find themselves unable to receive timely appointments, waiting 
for hours at crowded field offices, waiting on the phones.
    Even the possibility of a government shutdown hurts morale 
and wastes enormous amounts of time. A government shutdown must 
be avoided, but the price cannot be a fast track commission, 
which the White House has accurately called a death panel for 
Social Security. Fortunately, as polarized as the Nation is, we 
are united over Social Security.
    Overwhelmingly--overwhelming percentages of Republicans, 
Democrats, and Independents strongly favor expansion with no 
cuts while requiring the wealthiest to pay more, and Congress 
should act in the sunshine, as it always has done.
    Let me just say in conclusion, when President Roosevelt 
signed Social Security into law, he called it a cornerstone in 
the structure which is being built but it was by no means 
complete.
    The last time Congress added to that cornerstone was a half 
century ago. It is well past time that Congress expand Social 
Security, including expanding the Social Security 
Administration. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thanks very much, Nancy, for your testimony. 
Jessica Altman, you may begin--I am sorry, Jessica LaPointe, 
you may begin your opening statement.

            STATEMENT OF JESSICA LAPOINTE, PRESIDENT

             OF COUNCIL 220, AMERICAN FEDERATION OF

            GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES, MADISON, WISCONSIN

    Ms. LaPointe. Thank you, Chairman Casey, for holding this 
hearing and inviting me to testify on behalf of 42,000 workers 
nationwide. I want to respectfully submit to you that Social 
Security is facing a full blown labor crisis, one that is 
creating great hardship for the worker and millions of 
recipients that we have taken an oath to serve.
    This untenable situation has been festering for years. In 
2010 and 2011, SSA was ranked second in best places to work. 
Now, it is ranked dead last. Yet we still maintain second in 
public trust. Entering in 2023, SSA was dealing with its lowest 
staffing levels in 25 years.
    Employee turnover is now high in every corner of the 
agency, but highest amongst our lower graded workers, 
especially in the tele-service centers where employees start as 
low as $32,000 a year and work under extreme managerial 
pressure to keep pace with the 27 million calls annually coming 
from the public with a wide range of questions about our 
complex programs.
    In fact, in general, almost 80 percent of Social Security 
workers surveyed by AFGE believe that their pay does not 
reflect the importance, complexity, and volume of work they 
perform. Rapidly growing caseloads have led to employee 
fatigue, burnout, and a snowballing retention failure.
    In SSA's internet claims taking unit or workload support 
units, 90--900 employees are working tirelessly to process over 
one million claims pending for benefits. The agency's ability 
to recruit and train new workers is extremely hampered. Newly 
hired employees are rushed through the training of our 
intricate programs and feel unprepared and without adequate 
support.
    As a result, new hire attrition was 17 percent last year. 
With 78 percent of Americans believing Social Security needs 
more funding to support its operation costs, it is imperative 
that Congress listen to its constituents and unite behind 
addressing the root cause of our current situation.
    The underfunding of SSA operating costs, slashing budgets 
by 17 percent with inflation over the last decade, has failed 
to keep up with the rising rate of beneficiaries. Congress has 
left the situation unaddressed for far too long as baby boomers 
have been reaching their retirement age at a rate of 10,000 a 
day since 2011 and will continue to do so until 2030.
    I want to tell you about a small Social Security office 
serving three low-income rural communities in Pennsylvania. Due 
to staffing shortages, this office operates with just three 
full time employees doing the job of three different positions 
at once, the customer service representative, claim specialist, 
and technical expert.
    These three SSA employees who are claims specialists, serve 
an average of 700 walk-in visitors a month. All day long, they 
grow fatigued addressing growing public frustrations over long 
wait times for needed services and benefits.
    They juggle phone calls, walk-in customers, appointments, 
internet claims, Social Security card applications, records, 
maintenance tasks, overpayment workloads, benefit reviews, 
incoming mail, and original proofs of vital records processing. 
The back-end processing of claims, including research on how to 
apply cumbersome rules and regulations, happens in between it 
all.
    Sadly, this Pennsylvanian office is not unique. SSA workers 
and offices across the State and nation are working through 
breaks and lunches to juggle it all. As the same, employee 
request for time off for personal health and family reasons, 
reasonable accommodations under the American of Disabilities 
Act, and union representational needs are routinely denied.
    Due to managerial pressures to keep up with public demand, 
70 percent of our members surveyed cite bullying as prevalent 
in their work environment. 8.5 out of 10 say that they are 
seeking medical treatment related to workplace stress. Nine out 
of ten say they know a coworker that has left their purposeful 
career at SSA related to work stress.
    Tragically, eight percent know someone that have taken 
their own life linked to work related stress. As a result, 54 
percent say they are considering leaving their career at SSA 
within the next year. The urgency of addressing this dangerous 
underfunding crisis cannot be overstated.
    Congress must prioritize avoiding government shutdowns and 
fully fund SSA to protect its workers, working families, and 
the Americans' most vulnerable citizens. AFGE is requesting 
that Congress appropriates $17.4 billion to SSA's operating 
costs, to protect its workers' health and safety, meet public 
demand, and provide the quality of service the American people 
deserve. Thank you.
    The Chairman. I was saying, thank you for your testimony 
and also the presentation about what workers are facing every 
day. I know this is not just in the last several years. It has 
been of long standing.
    Next, we will turn to Rowena for your opening statement. 
Thanks for being here with us today.

            STATEMENT OF HANNAH AND ROWENA SULLIVAN,

             SUPPLEMENTAL SECURITY INCOME RECIPIENT

               AND HER MOTHER, YORK, PENNSYLVANIA

    Ms. Rowena Sullivan. I was to speak today about 
supplemental security income benefits, which is also called 
SSI. My daughter, Hannah, receives these benefits because she 
has several impairments, including cerebral palsy, a cognitive 
impairment, and hearing loss which affect her ability to work 
full time.
    The monthly benefits she gets in SSI helps her to live and 
work independently in her community. Just by way of background, 
Hannah attended regular classes in school with support. She 
graduated from our local high school and attended a vocational 
program after school.
    Hannah has always been highly motivated to learn and to 
work. When Hannah applied for SSI benefits, we helped her 
gather the necessary school and medical records to support her 
application, and she had an independent evaluation by a 
physician at Social Security. This process went smoothly.
    As Hannah was aging out of our health insurance, it was the 
medical coverage associated with SSI which was vital. Hannah 
was at that time beginning to pursue what she calls her real 
life living, living independently from us, and she had a strong 
desire to live on her own and support herself, which she is now 
doing.
    Currently, she lives with two roommates and up until 
recently she worked two jobs. She cut back on one so she could 
increase her hours and the other, but neither of these jobs 
provide medical insurance, so it is an important piece of the 
SSI that she has that coverage, because she can't drive, she 
receives support for transportation and also support to 
maintain employment if she needs it. She utilizes community 
support, which helps her with grocery shopping, cooking, and 
budgeting.
    These SSI benefits provide a scaffold which enables her to 
sustain employment and live independently. If her income drops 
due to a medical issue, which it did a year ago when she had 
COVID and could not return to work for two weeks, the funds she 
received from SSI were her safety net.
    They kept her bills paid when she didn't receive a 
paycheck. I help Hannah manage her finances, and I also help 
her understand the letters that she receives from Social 
Security. She knows that I am concerned about two things, 
reporting her income accurately--and tracking her resources so 
they don't go over that $2,000 limit.
    As far as income goes, Hannah reports her wages on the 
ssa.gov website with--[technical problems]--coach.
    [Technical problems]--is continually readjusted and is 
based on the amount that she earned from wages two months 
prior.
    Reporting has sometimes been a problem. [Technical 
problems]--800 number as directed to let them know that she has 
started a new job and to request that they update her 
employment record. The update was never registered, and Hannah 
continued to receive letters from Social Security that did not 
reflect her employment or her income.
    We had a meeting at the local office, and they straightened 
it out. They told us that we really shouldn't rely on that 1-
800 number, but we should direct any future updates directly to 
them. About a year and a half ago, Hannah started a new job, 
and her new employer accidently underpaid her for several pay 
periods.
    We weren't sure at how--[technical problems]--correct the 
error, such that it didn't impact benefits. The employer's 
correction triggered an overpayment, and Hannah asked for a 
review and appeal. She filed the appeal and then received a 
computerized letter saying that she had no appeal, and they 
would begin recoupment.
    Again, we didn't know what to do, and so we contacted the 
local Social Security office, and they told us to ignore the 
computerized letter. We were told it would take months to 
process. I will note here, too, that Hannah is pretty active 
with the ssa.gov website and that says that she doesn't have an 
overpayment currently, and yet she receives mail saying that 
she does so that is inconsistent.
    For someone like Hannah with an intellectual disability and 
those of us assisting her, it would be helpful to have a 
contact person who could be reached in a timely manner when 
there is confusion. When we do talk to staff at our local 
office, they are informative, although it is usually a long 
wait to speak with someone who knows.
    I do find that the trainings that SSA provides through 
advocacy agencies, or the public at large are very helpful. 
With regard to resources, if Hannah goes over the resource 
savings limit of $2,000, she is ineligible for SSI for that 
month.
    This can be hard to juggle between the timing of her 
paychecks and the payment of her rent and other expenses. We 
worry that sometimes she will have too much in funds from her 
wages and at other times not enough to pay her bills. I have 
been told that this resource limit of $2,000 has been unchanged 
for decades, while rent, utilities, and wages have all gone up.
    There are times when she has no control over what might put 
her over the limit, such as when she received a COVID stimulus 
check or she received a tax refund, both of which triggered an 
overpayment.
    In general, Hannah would like to work more hours if she 
could, but she is always concerned about that resource cap of 
$2,000, which inhibits her. For Hannah and many disabled 
individuals like her, supplemental security income is a vital 
safety net that allows her to be able to work, to live, and to 
thrive in her community, and develop the skills she needs for 
true independence as she ages.
    Thank you for letting me speak today.
    The Chairman. Rowena, thanks very much. Thanks for sharing 
your story. Hannah, appreciate it, and we will conclude now 
with our fourth witness, Jennifer Burdick.

           STATEMENT OF JENNIFER BURDICK, DIVISIONAL

          SUPERVISING ATTORNEY, SUPPLEMENTAL SECURITY

             INCOME UNIT, COMMUNITY LEGAL SERVICES

          OF PHILADELPHIA, PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA

    Ms. Burdick. Thank you, Chairman Casey, for giving me the 
opportunity to speak today.
    I work at Community Legal Services of Philadelphia, which 
is a nonprofit that provides free civil legal services to about 
10,000 low-income Philadelphians every year, and relevantly, 
for about 60 years, we have been helping folks at every level 
of this Social Security disability appeals process.
    Now, today, kind of like Hannah's story, I want to 
emphasize the importance of the Social Security Disability 
Program and talk about some ways people connect to this 
program, and so, one example I want to raise is one of my 
clients, L.R.
    She was in her mid-30's, working full time as a housekeeper 
at a hotel when she started having frequent, unpredictable 
fainting spells out of nowhere. At one point she even fell down 
a flight of concrete stairs at work.
    Her doctors eventually diagnosed her with an atypical form 
of postural tachycardia syndrome, otherwise known as POTS, and 
because of the risk of injury, they recommended she stop 
working, and her employer agreed she was a safety risk at work, 
so imagine she went from working full time to out of nowhere 
having no idea how she was going to pay rent or put food on the 
table for her kids.
    Now, fortunately, she learned about SSI, and when she was 
approved, she ended up getting about $700 a month and $7,000 in 
back benefits, which is a modest benefit, but it was enough for 
her to stay in her house with her kids.
    How do you connect to these programs? The Sullivans just 
talked about Hannah's experience, and I will say that, you 
know, if you have a long work history, you can apply online at 
ssa.gov.
    Now, as Senator Casey pointed out, in all other 
circumstances, if you are looking for SSI, there isn't yet an 
online application, so you have to call or somehow schedule an 
interview in order to apply for benefits. There is a couple of 
ways to do that. People can call their local office, or they 
can go to their local office, but as many of--folks have 
testified, due to severe underfunding and understaffing, if you 
are calling, you should expect a long hold.
    If you go to your local office, they probably won't be able 
to do the interview that day and will ask you to come back 
another day, so recently, we have been recommending that 
applicants use SSA's new protective filing tool to apply.
    This is an online tool. It is very brief and when you fill 
it out, your local field office will send you a notice with the 
date of your interview. In addition to being a little easier, 
the application is considered filed as of the date you use that 
tool.
    When people ultimately be found eligible for benefits, it 
may provide them access to more benefits. Now, I also always 
recommend people take a few minutes to prepare if they are 
applying for disability benefits.
    This is really critical because whenever that interview 
happens, SSA is going to ask a lot of questions and I have 
watched lots of people over the years forget very critical 
information just in the heat of the moment.
    It is really helpful to take a few minutes to sit down and 
collect any information about any medical conditions, that 
includes diagnoses, but also any treatment, ER visits, doctor 
visits, therapy visits. I think it is interesting that people 
often forget the hospital visits more than anything else.
    Also, any information about financial income and resources, 
so I think the Sullivans just testified because of the outdated 
resource and income limits, SSA has a lot of questions about 
this, and it is good to know, you know, houses, cars--all that 
information collected in one place can make that interview go 
well.
    You also need to identify a third party in advance, 
somebody who can verify that you have a disability and have 
that contact information with you to give to Social Security so 
they know who to reach out to.
    Now, it is critical that people have a phone number and 
address that they will have access to a long time, which can be 
hard and something to think about, particularly if you are 
unhoused or your housing situation is precarious, but it is 
important because the interview is not the end of the 
application.
    SSA is going to send out a series of worksheets and forms 
that need to be completed and sent back, and sometimes a 
direction to go see a Social Security doctor. All of these 
things need to happen, so you need to have a good number and 
address.
    Finally, my most important recommendation is I recommend 
anyone who is thinking about going through this process to get 
ready to appeal two times, so going back to Ms. R, I already 
told you that she ultimately was found eligible for benefits.
    However, like two-thirds of all applicants, she was denied 
when she initially applied, and that is very, very common. Only 
people--around 30 percent of folks ever get approved when they 
first apply for disability benefits, and like 85 percent of 
people who appeal the first time, at the first level of review 
which is called reconsideration, she was also denied at that 
level. She was not found eligible for disability benefits until 
she went before a hearing before an administrative law judge, 
and statistically, that is the path to go.
    I always recommend appeal and appeal again. A lot of people 
get deterred because when they see no, they think that means 
that their disability isn't sufficient, but I really recommend 
people think about that.
    Now, if this process seems complicated, it is, but SSA is 
really, really underfunded, as Ms. LaPointe pointed out and Ms. 
Altman pointed out, and with more funding and attention to 
streamlining some of the very outdated and overly complex 
policies, SSA could significantly improve this process.
    You know, we are very grateful to Senators like Senator 
Casey, who has been pushing SSA to make some of these 
administrative changes and streamline the system through a 
number of legislative efforts, but who is also calling for SSA 
to get the funding they need to implement these changes. Thank 
you.
    The Chairman. Okay Well, thanks Jennifer, thanks very much 
for your testimony. I really am going to turn to you as well as 
Jessica LaPointe to ask about, and you touched on it, and 
would, maybe--I don't want you to be redundant, but there may 
be things that an individual will want to know ahead of time 
before walking into an office, so I think it is kind of a basic 
threshold question.
    What should someone expect when they walk into a Social 
Security office? I think maybe we will start with Jessica to 
ask, just from your experience, what should that expectation be 
when an individual walks into that office?
    Ms. LaPointe. Yes. If you are a member of the public coming 
into a Social Security field office and inquiring about service 
that relates to your basic needs for income security and you 
are most likely facing a major life changing event, due to this 
you are most likely going to have some level of anxiety and 
frustration because you couldn't get through on the phone or 
have been forced to wait far too long for answers, so you are 
going to expect to be greeted by a public servant, a well-
trained, dedicated, and caring public servant, while the worker 
will serve you with efficiency, skill, and compassion and help 
you get through the process of what you need and what the next 
steps are.
    What you won't see is how the worker you are serving is 
doing the job of three different people at once, but expected 
to keep the same pace of service delivery because the dire 
needs of the public can't wait.
    What you won't see are the challenges of the worker who is 
most likely working through breaks and lunches, heavy scrutiny, 
leave denials for needed time off, pressures to keep up with 
growing caseloads that sit while we just triage most of the 
work week, so you are going to want to be as prepared as 
possible, be informed as possible through our online service 
channels to make sure that you are bringing the correct 
documents that you need to keep moving the process forward.
    You also will not see the stress that the worker feels day 
in and day out, stress that keeps the worker up at night, 
because every item pending on our desk is a human being waiting 
and that is depending on us for their case to be handled.
    The Chairman. Jennifer.
    Ms. Burdick. I really appreciate all those observations, 
and I think just reiterating, I think on the claimant side, 
making sure you have the information about your condition and 
your life with you is really important. People are experts in 
their own lives, but that doesn't mean you know everything all 
the time.
    You know, many of us walk around with phones or other 
things to help us remember information. It is really helpful 
when you go into the Social Security office to just have all 
that stuff at the ready.
    For example, Social Security will routinely ask about, you 
know, where you have gotten treatment, but also the name and 
the address of the doctor you go to. Not everyone knows the 
name of the doctor or medical provider, particularly these 
days, now that a lot of providers are in groups, but getting as 
close to that information as you can is helpful. It is fine if 
you don't have the name, but have the address, have the phone 
number.
    Think about the therapist. If you see a counselor at your 
church, think about having that information too. As much as you 
can have with you at the time can make those interactions with 
the overworked claims representative like that much, much more 
efficient and quicker.
    It is also important to understand that in some situations, 
Social Security may ask for you to have an original document 
with you. You can see online when that will happen. Sometimes 
marriage certificates, if you are trying to get benefits off of 
another person's history. Just try to know in advance when you 
are going to need those and bring them.
    It is hard--there is really no way to get around some of 
those requirements.
    The Chairman. Well, thanks very much. I will now turn to 
Rowena and Hannah to talk about the experience you have had, 
because I think initially you said, I am paraphrasing here, but 
you spoke positively about your initial experience obtaining 
benefits, and at that time, a minimal wait time between 
submitting your application and receiving benefits.
    In the 10 years since Hannah's initial application, Social 
Security Administration has faced, as we have heard repeatedly 
this morning, significant challenges, the workers have.
    As we continue to invest and make attempts to get more 
funding to invest in staffing, training, modernization, we have 
got to ensure that beneficiaries can receive the best quality 
service possible, so in that decade since Hannah, you enrolled, 
what kind of changes have you experienced?
    Ms. Rowena Sullivan. Yes. It has certainly become more 
computerized and now we do a lot on the app, and actually, 
Hannah does that better than I do because I am old, but we 
submit information to the local office and very often it is not 
updated in her files. She had an employer, I guess about a year 
ago she switched jobs, and we notified the local office that 
she had changed employment.
    I think we sent a letter, we made phone calls, but it is 
not--had been updated in her record, so it doesn't affect her 
benefits at all, but I did notice that there are several 
employers that are listed, and she really only has two, so 
there is that. I guess I don't know to what extent I need to 
really push in with that accuracy because it doesn't affect 
her, but it is kind of an ongoing thing.
    We were told by Social Security that we should submit 
IRWEs, which are Impairment Related Work Expenses, if she has 
any. Hannah recently had a repair to her hearing aid that was 
costly, and we sent that to the local office, and I haven't--I 
don't know where that stands.
    That was probably about six months ago, and I assume they 
are processing it. I think in order for me to find out about 
it, I need to go into the office, and that is very time 
consuming, and they will probably tell me that it is being 
processed, so I don't know if anyone has any suggestions, but 
things like that I think are what we have seen as some issues 
since she first applied.
    The Chairman. Sure. I think why I asked that question was 
if there were any suggestions about----
    Ms. Burdick. I mean, I wish I could say this is an uncommon 
story. I think one of the hardships right now is because of the 
understaffing. There aren't--there isn't a secret--[technical 
problems]--her office has had to resend in the same 
applications. It is just, it is uncountable.
    You know, I frequently will send a letter, fax, call to 
follow-up, and you do all those things, and it sometimes takes, 
and it sometimes doesn't, which puts a very big burden. It is 
very time consuming for you to call and follow-up on all these 
letters, but it is the best way to do it these days.
    Ms. Rowena Sullivan. I found with Social Security generally 
and the interactions that I have had, that when I get to the 
right person, they are really, very, very helpful, and that is 
always a good thing. Just takes time.
    The Chairman. Jessica, continue with that line of 
questioning, your own experience, where--you have pointed out 
today very specifically the impact on workers, which is 
substantially adverse impact on workers because of 
underfunding. If you could carry that forward one step further 
to the impact on beneficiaries.
    Ms. LaPointe. Absolutely. Over the last 10 years, you want 
to talk about the deterioration.
    We talked about over the last 10 years, the deterioration 
of staffing levels, the quality of training, unfortunately, the 
customer service deterioration, those are the biggest 
challenges that we are facing as beneficiaries have increased 
by 25 percent and staffing levels have decreased by 15 percent.
    Classroom style training, for example, has been replaced 
with self-paced videos, which are a disservice to the new hires 
who ultimately feel unprepared and unsupported and end up just 
quitting because they don't know if they can handle being a 
part of the Social Security Administration for their career.
    This has all caused significant delays in public service. 
Since 2018 alone, initial disability claims processing time has 
increased by 99 percent, going from three months to now seven 
months to wait for an initial disability decision, and then you 
double that or triple that or quadruple that until you get a 
hearing.
    Average public wait times for calls to be answered at the 
1-800 number have increased by 115 percent, going from 20 
minutes to 43 minutes on average wait, and that is much higher 
during peak times.
    Our phone systems are in desperately need of replacement, 
their antiquated and inefficient and inadequate, so you don't 
have like a feature where it would tell you how long you would 
be waiting on the phone, so a lot of callers give up. You don't 
have like a polite, we will call you back, like most call 
centers have nowadays.
    Customers are just forced to wait and listen to elevator 
music for an undetermined amount of time, or they will 
encounter like a systems crash, for example. I know OIG did a 
study on all the systems crashes we had during the pandemic.
    We need the funding to replace our technology so that SSA 
works better for the worker and the customer that access our 
services. A 2020 GAO report shows that about 10,000 Americans a 
year file for bankruptcy and another 10,000 are now dying while 
awaiting a determination of their benefits through the hearing 
level.
    That is the real impact--the most devastating statistics 
that we have on the impact of the customer. I would like to 
mention a positive change. Over the last decade, and ironically 
because of the pandemic, is we have increased our virtual 
service delivery options.
    This has proven to match the growing needs of the public 
who no longer want to or need to come into the office for in-
person service, like Hannah would rather use an app or internet 
services, and that matches the aging baby boomer population as 
well as 78 percent of them have been online since 2013 and are 
online more than millennials at this point.
    We want to continue to get the funding to improve our 
virtual service delivery options. We think that that is a 
solution.
    The Chairman. Also, just for emphasis, I want to make sure 
I understand. Can you give me that 90 percent number and that 
plus 100 percent number again?
    Ms. LaPointe. Yes, 99 percent is the figure since 2018 
alone that has gone up to wait for an initial disability 
decision, so in 2018 you waited about 3.4 months, and now you 
will be waiting over 7.2 months.
    If we don't get funding after this continuing resolution 
expires in mid-November, that is going to go up even higher, 
agency sources are saying by 30 percent, so you could be 
waiting as long as nine months to get a decision.
    The Chairman. Then the other number----
    Ms. LaPointe. The other number was 115 percent is the 
average wait time since 2019 for calls to be answered on the 1-
800 number, going from 20 minutes to now 43 minutes.
    The Chairman. Well, that gives you a direct sense of the 
beneficiary impact. Also, I wanted to make sure that Nancy 
Altman, if you had, based upon your experience, anything you 
wanted to add to this part of the discussion.
    Ms. Altman. Yes, let me add something that I think is 
important. As you know, the agency is without a Senate 
confirmed Commissioner.
    The Chairman. Right.
    Ms. Altman. In fact, every Senate confirmed Commissioner 
since 2001 has been a Republican. In the last 40 years, only 
eight of those years has there been a Senate confirmed 
Democrat--Democratic leadership.
    Some of these--and that has brought a number of lower-level 
appointees that the Social Security community actually thinks 
are hostile to Social Security or are into some privatization.
    You know, think government doesn't work and all of that, 
and let me--so and that has brought some anti-union animus. It 
has affected the workforce. It has caused a lot of harmful 
regulations. Let me talk about just two things it has brought.
    One is that the--even though the law requires, Congress has 
passed law, the President has signed it into law, that every 
year, every worker 25 years or older gets an earnings 
statement. That is very important for all kinds of things that 
informs people about disability benefits that they might not 
otherwise know about.
    It provides their earnings statements so they can correct 
them if there is a mistake and so forth. It was a Republican 
Commissioner who claimed it was on budget grounds, but it 
really does not cost very much money.
    That should be reinstated. Another is there is a real 
emphasis on fraud and continuing disability reviews and that 
sort of thing, when, of course, most Americans are honest.
    They are claiming benefits because they have earned them, 
and the focus really should be as it was, as Franklin Roosevelt 
wanted it to be, the first Commissioner talked about--it is 
really you are helping people receive the benefits they have 
earned.
    The Chairman. I appreciate that, and I wanted to go back to 
Jennifer to ask about the kind of the navigating the difficult 
process that people undertake. I know in your testimony you 
mentioned that you assist clients through the Social Security 
disability application process that we have heard from 
Pennsylvanians it can be difficult to navigate, as you and 
others have made reference to, because of the funding 
constraints that we have heard about today, SSA staff face 
really overwhelming workloads and are unable to guide each 
beneficiary through the process, so we need advocates and 
advocacy organizations that are community-based. Community 
Legal Services of Philly is one of those. Can you talk to us a 
little bit of how advocates help with navigating this Social 
Security process.
    Ms. Burdick. Absolutely. I think, I mean the needs for 
advocates are strong and there really should be even broader 
than they are now.
    Social--the social--you shouldn't need a lawyer to get 
through the Social Security disability process, but you really 
do in a lot of cases and people can help on a lot of different 
levels or claims representatives.
    Although claims representatives at Social Security can help 
some people if you can get to them, and as I think Sullivans 
have said, you get to some claims representatives who are 
wonderful, but because of understaffing, relying on people in 
the community can be really helpful.
    In some places like Philly, if you are lucky enough, 
depending on your income and financial background, you may be 
eligible for help from community based services like Legal Aid. 
That is where I come from, and I encourage people if they are 
eligible to go seek Legal Aid out. There is a lot of different 
ways that having an advocate through this process can help.
    One of which is we sometimes will sit on those 40-minute 
holds for you, which I think can really decrease stress, 
particularly depending on what sort of medical impairment you 
are calling about or if you are a limited English proficient. 
Like sitting on those long holds just might not be tenable for 
you.
    We help advise on filling out all of the forms. As I said, 
everybody through the application process gets a lot of 
worksheets to fill out repeatedly. This seems like a really 
small thing, but it is actually a really, really big barrier 
because a lot of people don't get them.
    Maybe there is something wrong with the mail or they are 
housing unstable, and they didn't get that letter, or it comes 
really late. They don't understand them because of a cognitive 
impairment, because of a language issue, or they just don't 
know how to fill them out because they are 10 pages and long.
    As somebody who has been representing people for a long 
time, I know that I don't answer every question perfectly. It 
is okay to write, I don't understand this question, on the 
form. Just return it, right, but--[technical problems]--
questions that they don't know the answer to, and it will stop 
them in their tracks. You know, recently I give Social Security 
a lot of credit. They just revised a form that goes out to 
people who are in some of the review process Nancy just 
mentioned.
    To take away--it used to be they would ask not only for 
each doctor you see, but your first appointment and your last 
appointment. Does anyone remember the first time they saw 
whatever provider they are seeing? No, but I would--I just 
wouldn't fill it out as someone's representative and understand 
that I don't need to.
    A lot of people I worked with, that would stop them in 
their tracks. They would spend hours trying to call their 
medical provider, trying to get that date, or sometimes say, I 
didn't know the answer, so I didn't return it.
    Then their claim might even be denied for being 
noncompliant with the process, which is not their intention, 
right, so having an advocate can help navigate both getting 
those forms and making sure you know that you have them and 
helping you fill them out, and then ultimately, if you do end 
up at a hearing, can be really helpful in that context.
    When most people think about the concept of disability and 
what makes someone disabled, the common conceptions don't 
always match with the Social Security rules, right. This is 
just true, and so having an advocate on your side to help match 
your condition with the rules or explain how maybe your 
condition doesn't match perfectly.
    A lot of people don't, you know. A lot of people will have 
multiple impairments when maybe each one of them isn't 
disabling, but when you consider them together, they really 
are, but it can take having someone else to help explain that 
and explain how that meets the rules. It can be really helpful.
    The other thing that I think is really important is when it 
comes to maintaining benefits, there isn't a lot of help out 
there. Community resources is basically it. There isn't really 
any money in it for attorneys.
    Unless you are working with Legal Aid, you are not going to 
have anyone helping you explain if you have a resource limit, 
which I know Senator Casey has been active trying to get those 
raised or dealing with these issues.
    It is really important to connect either to claims reps in 
your Social Security field office, sometimes case managers, 
folks like that, social workers can be helpful, but if you do 
have any legal aides in your areas, I highly recommend you 
reach out to them, too, to help work on some of those kinds of 
stranger, but also--I guess they are not strange. They are 
actually very, very common.
    They are just rules that exist that are very complex that 
people don't usually get help with, so we people--we see people 
lose benefits all the time for reasons they don't have to. For 
example, in a quick plug, you know, one of the things Senator 
Casey was a huge champion for is these ABLE accounts, which 
will help people save more.
    Less than one percent of people who are eligible about 
these accounts know about them, but I see people who get cutoff 
from their disability benefits all the time or get a large 
overpayment because a particular month they had too much.
    You know, that is the kind of thing that if someone was 
able to tell you right away that, you know, you can put 
resources in an ABLE account. That will protect you from losing 
your benefits if you have to save up for something.
    You know, say you need to replace the hot water heater in 
your home, you are going to have to save more than $2,000 to do 
that, but while you are saving under Social Security's rules, 
you would lose access to benefits.
    There are all these little tips and tricks that people 
shouldn't need help to access, but in reality, they do, and if 
people are facing these issues, I would encourage you to reach 
out. Social Security has good resources online. Community 
partners can really help.
    These rules are--unnecessarily complex and it is not--you 
should really think about getting, you know, help from people 
who know these rules really well.
    [Technical problems.]
    The Chairman. Oh, sure. Sure.
    Ms. Rowena Sullivan. Can I say something about the ABLE 
account. I didn't mention it, but that really has been just a 
terrific benefit to Hannah because it allows her to save and it 
is excluded, that account is excluded as a resource.
    We contribute to it regularly on her behalf, my husband and 
I, and then she contributes to it when she can, and you know, 
we review it, think of it as her retirement account, which 
really gives us some sense of security.
    I know you were very active with that. Certainly, thank you 
for that because that really has lessened our stress.
    The Chairman. Well, thanks. I hope we can do more beyond 
the initial two pieces of legislation that relate to ABLE. We 
have got more work to do to expand it, and we appreciate those 
who have had some experience, bringing that experience to 
light.
    I wanted to turn to both Nancy Altman and Jessica LaPointe 
for maybe turning the tables on this funding issue. If you 
could walk through what the world would look like, both for the 
worker who has been badly invested in over many years now, and 
the beneficiary, and the impact on services.
    Turn it around and kind of highlight for us what would it 
mean to have more funding. In other words, if we had adequate 
funding, what would that look like for both the worker and the 
beneficiary?
    Ms. Altman. Let me start, and Jessica, I know, will have 
lots of important points to add. One thing to be clear about is 
that a large percentage of Social Security costs go up every 
year. They are based on their salaries, their field office 
rent, and so forth.
    Even level funding is a cut, so even the first part of the 
investment was just to keep the funding, but on top of that, 
the Social Security Administration is really the face of the 
government, and it is where people go at real times of stress 
and vulnerability.
    Ideally, with more funding, what has been hurt--because it 
used to be the top place where people wanted to work. It was 
the agency that people really appreciated and the--there used 
to be a real premium on training.
    In fact, in the very early days, every worker at Social 
Security was flown to Baltimore and trained and told the 
mission and so forth, and that has gotten weaker and weaker, 
and now, there is just not--you know, that you have a mentor, 
but if you are understaffed, the mentor really doesn't have 
time.
    Training would be higher. People would be more efficient, 
but and basically the American people would have their choice. 
They could be able to walk into a field office and not have to 
wait for hours, could immediately get help, but if they 
preferred to go online, they could go online and have it worked 
out online, not have to have a follow-up and so forth.
    Funding really is the key. Having more money--there is 
another piece Congress has a role as well, and that is to, 
there are various things that can be done to simplify the 
programs to make it easier to administer, and some of those 
changes would reduce administrative costs.
    There is a lot that can be done. A big part of the problem 
is the agency has been underfunded for too long.
    Ms. LaPointe. Just to underscore again the underfunding, 
there is more than one ways to starve a program.
    The consistent underfunding that fails to meet public 
demand like we have seen for the last decade, the gutting of 
SSA's budget all at once, like what we saw when over 190 
members of the House tried to do in September when they voted 
to slash SSA by 30 percent.
    That would be a complete collapse of the Social Security 
Program and that is a real threat that we are facing today, and 
then there are the impacts of government shutdowns, threats of 
furloughs, and the Federal pay gap, which now sits at 24 
percent with work in the private sector.
    Workers are being forced to abandon their careers just to 
make ends meet, because there is this constant insecurity about 
our income and our own paychecks, so let me just be very clear, 
there is no SSA without the workers and the workforce.
    That is why AFGE is asking for timely funding to avoid a 
shutdown and an additional $2 billion over the President's 
request for Fiscal Year 2024, or a separate funding package of 
$10 billion over the next year, like the IRS got with the 
Inflation Reduction Act.
    We need to have at least an additional 10,000 workers added 
to the workforce, and that is at least, to meet growing public 
demand, and an upgrade, as I mentioned, to the antiquated and 
inadequate technology that we are being forced to work with on 
a daily basis that offers a lot of frustration.
    As Nancy mentioned, improving our training models, get back 
to the classroom style models with teachers and available 
mentors. Recruitment and retention pay would be great. That 
would go a long way for our ability to retain and recruit new 
workers like the Federal prison systems got, which we are like 
them in terms of morale, the lowest morale in Federal 
Government. Position upgrades.
    Every SSA worker just goes up a grade from GS 8-9, GS 9-10, 
GS 11-12, GS 12-13 since, by 80 percent as I mentioned, we 
don't feel that we are being paid adequately due to the volume 
and complexity of work that we do.
    Better technology, as I just mentioned. All of this will in 
turn improve the SSA worker morale and then improve customer 
service.
    Ms. Altman. If I can--I am sorry, if I can----
    The Chairman. Sure, sure.
    Ms. Altman [continuing]. just add. There is another thought 
that came to me that a few things that, again, were done in the 
past and more funding would provide. There used to be mobile 
offices where in rural areas, so you didn't have to travel 
miles and miles.
    There was a mobile office that would go around. That was 
eliminated because of the budget crunch, and I mentioned the 
earnings statement that really is a valuable resource that goes 
in every--that is mailed in. You don't have to think about it. 
Those increased funding would definitely allow----
    The Chairman. Maybe--for purposes of time, I know we have 
to wrap up, but maybe I will ask a final question for anyone 
who wants to weigh in. We obviously have a need for increased 
funding. I think that is pretty self-evident after the 
testimony today.
    We also want to emphasize as well the essential nature of 
these benefits for Americans. There is really no way to 
calculate the positive impact of Social Security on the lives 
of so many Americans.
    If we are going to claim we have the best--or attempt to 
claim we have the best system in the world, we have to invest 
in the workers. These employees help it make--help this happen 
every day. They work under adverse circumstances, and they 
deserve the recognition that is not accorded them for the hard 
work that they do.
    Let me start with both Rowena and Hannah, if you could tell 
us what receiving SSI has meant for you and your family, and 
how it has impacted you.
    Ms. Rowena Sullivan. Hannah, you want to take that one?
    Ms. Hannah Sullivan. Yes. It absolutely--[technical 
problems]. It helps me get--to work, and it--for my groceries 
and things I need.
    The Chairman. Transportation, rent, groceries, and also, I 
wanted to open it up to the rest of our panelists if just by 
way of concluding remarks, if you wanted to weigh in on that 
question or anything else you want to bring to our attention. I 
think we will start with Jennifer.
    Ms. Burdick. Thank you. The thing I want to highlight about 
the importance of Social Security is that, you know, it is the 
program that lifts more people above the poverty line than any 
other program. It is also pretty unique--is it is one of the 
few benefits that gives people cash.
    Now, when you think about trying to prevent poverty, trying 
to give people grace to deal with either disabilities or 
retirement, people know what they need best, and they can do 
that with cash. Health care is extremely important as well, and 
you know, there are SNAP benefits--there is a lot of other 
programs that provide particular things.
    One thing that makes this program essential and unique is 
it gives people the cash they need to make the decisions they 
need to in life, and it is just, it is essential, and you know, 
we live in a cash economy. That is what people need.
    The Chairman. Thanks very much. Maybe, I don't know if we 
want to go to Jessica first and then conclude. We started with 
Nancy, and we will start--and we will end with you.
    Ms. LaPointe. I will take it personal for a moment. My 
father died when I was nine and I was on Social Security as 
well as a young child. It offered a lot of stability for my 
family in our time that we needed it.
    My mother was a schoolteacher. It gave me the resources to, 
you know, keep pace with my friends and then also get an 
education, and that is why I am here before you today, so it 
really--as an advocate for the program.
    On a very personal level, it has helped me and my family 
thrive in this life and in this country, and so, when I think 
about being a child on Social Security, how the office was 
there for me, the community base field office when I needed it, 
we had access to timely benefits and services, compassionate, 
well-trained workers.
    I think about that, entering into the workforce in 2009 
when all of that was still pretty stable, and then experiencing 
the deterioration and seeing the suffering that that has had on 
the customer, it gets me to think about how that is sad, but 
where we go from here.
    In terms of modernizing the program, utilizing technology 
for the customers' needs, you know, and the diverse 
socioeconomic levels of the customers that we serve, thinking 
about the future of artificial intelligence--I can't underscore 
enough how the human impact and element cannot be removed from 
the job and the customer experience.
    I encourage AI to be used as a tool and not replacing the 
adjudicative oversight and that human contact. We need to have 
agency interfaces that will reduce wait times very drastically 
if we can interface with the DMV, IRS, Department of Homeland 
Security, and vital records that would help facilitate a lot of 
claims processing more timely and virtual service delivery 
options, and then telework. I just would like to briefly 
mention telework as a tool for the modern world. Federal 
workers are citing by 90 percent that they can do their jobs 
more efficiently while working from home because--due to the 
lack of in-office distractions.
    Telework is an incredibly great tool to save the worker 
money by about $6,000 a year in their own budgets, as studies 
are showing. It saves the agency money by $11,000 a year per 
worker. It increases productivity, as I mentioned, reduces the 
carbon footprint, and allows for the continuity of service 
delivery in times of emergency office closures.
    Being able to expand our workforce so that we do not 
eliminate those in-person community field offices, but just 
increase the staff so more of us can work in environment 
conducive to productivity from our homes, while we have enough 
staff servicing the front windows for the most basic dire needs 
of the beneficiaries that walk in, we really think is a way 
forward.
    As Nancy mentioned, getting a permanent Commissioner 
confirmed by the Senate very quickly here is going to go a long 
way, so we hope to see that happen, and then funding SSA to 
meet public demand. Once we do the customer service fix, which 
we think can happen pretty quickly when we get the right 
leadership in place and the right funding package in place, 
then the solvency issues would be much less of a heavy lift for 
Congress to tackle.
    Social Security, as you mentioned, being a widely popular 
Federal program, an 88-year success story born out of the Great 
Depression, the most successful and far reaching anti-poverty 
program in this country's history, AFGE truly believes that 
Congress should work together to solve the issues of 
operational funding and program solvency.
    We, the workers and the American people, deserve a thriving 
and well-funded Social Security Administration that works for 
the American people again, for this generation that is 
accessing the benefits and for future generations that really 
need it and are going to rely on it when they can no longer 
work.
    The Chairman. Jessica, thanks very much.
    Ms. LaPointe. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Nancy.
    Ms. Altman. Social Security, it is not an overstatement to 
say that Social Security has transformed the Nation. It--prior 
to Social Security, people worked as long as they could, but if 
they--once they couldn't continue to work, they generally moved 
in with their adult children.
    If they didn't have adult children, Pennsylvania and every 
state but New Mexico, prior to Social Security, had poor 
houses, and they were mainly people who had worked 
independently their entire lives but in old age went--literally 
went to the poorhouse.
    Orphanages had children who had living parents, but one 
parent had died and they--the family couldn't continue to keep 
them, and they had to be split up. The stories of people with 
disabilities in front of churches begging because they had no 
way to support themselves. All we have to do is look at recent 
events, COVID, which disproportionately hit older people, and 
many people had to retire early. Social Security was there, did 
not miss a payment.
    In fact, it has never missed a payment. One of the big 
differences between the Great Recession--and the late 2008, 
2009 and the Great Depression is that hidden in the shadows of 
the Great Depression with one out of three people out of work 
were not only their dependent children but were their aged 
parents. Interestingly, during the Great Recession, when, you 
know, the joke 401(k)'s became 201(k)'s, Social Security was 
always there.
    In fact, there were older people who were able to help 
their children who were unemployed, so it has really 
transformed the country. If we can afford it, it is there. I 
thank you for your important support of it and your proposals 
to improve it, and I think it is--it will get better. The 
American people, as I say, as polarized as we are, we are not 
about Social Security.
    The Chairman. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. I will just 
have some closing comments and then we will wrap up.
    I am grateful for all of our witnesses and their--the 
testimony they provided and the experience with which that--on 
which, I should say, that testimony is based. It is not 
something they have just recently acquired knowledge about. 
They have lived it, either as advocates or in their own 
personal lives.
    We all know, and as we have said in different formats and 
fashions today, Social Security is critical to supporting the 
independence and economic security of millions of Americans--
actually more than millions, tens of millions of Americans, 
including older adults, children, and people with disabilities.
    There is a reason that the Social Security Administration 
ranks very high in public trust. It is essential that Congress 
maintains its promise to the American people and works to both 
preserve and to protect Social Security. We should also work to 
strengthen benefits and ensure solvency so that no one falls 
into poverty.
    Social Security continues to be the Nation's most effective 
anti-poverty program and the foundation for retirement 
security. The number of beneficiaries has been growing each 
year, as we have heard, and yet the Social Security 
Administration has been starved of resources, and it is at its 
lowest point of staffing in 25 years.
    Persistent underfunding has led to this understaffing, 
resulting in significant backlogs and delays for benefit 
determinations. Underfunding has also prevented SSA from 
modernizing to improve their operations and strengthen the 
delivery of benefits.
    Social Security is a lifeline, a critical lifeline for so 
many Americans, and they can't wait months for a determination, 
or--and they can't wait months to receive their benefits. 
Recipients of Social Security are entitled to the best possible 
service, and employees, the workers at SSA deserve better 
working conditions that will enable them to deliver that high 
quality service.
    Congress needs to take action to adjust some of these 
outdated policies that just don't make sense for modern 
beneficiaries. Waiting periods for individuals with 
disabilities, outdated income caps, and restrictions on benefit 
claims for widows and widowers put these Americans at a 
terrible disadvantage. I am still hopeful that my colleagues 
will come together to pass my SWIFT Act, my ABLE Match Act, and 
my Stop the Wait Act to address these issues.
    Again, by way of repetition, I will say that if you have 
any questions about benefits or need assistance communicating 
with SSA, please contact my office, and in addition to the 
other offices that are represented here. You can submit a 
question online, as I said earlier, at kc.senate.gov, or you 
can give my office a call at (717) 231-7540, (717) 231-7540.
    Again, I want to thank our witnesses for contributing their 
time and sharing their experience and their expertise. The 
hearing record will be open for seven days for additional 
statements for the record, but thanks for all of you for 
participating today. Our hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:20 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

 
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                                APPENDIX

      
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                      Prepared Witness Statements

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                       Statements for the Record

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