[Senate Hearing 118-163]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                        S. Hrg. 118-163

                    NOMINATIONS OF HARRY COKER, JR.,
                JEFF REZMOVIC, AND SUZANNE E. SUMMERLIN

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
               HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS


                             FIRST SESSION
                               __________

         NOMINATIONS OF HARRY COKER, JR., TO BE NATIONAL CYBER
              DIRECTOR, EXECUTIVE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT,
           JEFF REZMOVIC TO BE CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER, U.S.
       DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY, AND SUZANNE E. SUMMERLIN
        TO BE GENERAL COUNSEL, FEDERAL LABOR RELATIONS AUTHORITY
                               __________

                            NOVEMBER 2, 2023

        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                       Printed for the use of the
        Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs
        
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                     U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
                    
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        COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS

                   GARY C. PETERS, Michigan, Chairman
THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware           RAND PAUL, Kentucky
MAGGIE HASSAN, New Hampshire         RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin
KYRSTEN SINEMA, Arizona              JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
JACKY ROSEN, Nevada                  MITT ROMNEY, Utah
JON OSSOFF, Georgia                  RICK SCOTT, Florida
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
LAPHONZA BUTLER, California          ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas

                   David M. Weinberg, Staff Director
         Christopher J. Mulkins, Director of Homeland Security
                  Claudine J. Brenner, Senior Counsel
           William E. Henderson III, Minority Staff Director
              Christina N. Salazar, Minority Chief Counsel
                  Andrew J. Hopkins, Minority Counsel
                     Laura W. Kilbride, Chief Clerk
                   Ashley A. Gonzalez, Hearing Clerk

                            C O N T E N T S

                                 ------                                
Opening statements:
                                                                   Page
    Senator Peters...............................................     1
    Senator Carper...............................................     4
    Senator Rosen................................................    13
    Senator Lankford.............................................    15
    Senator Hassan...............................................    17
    Senator Hawley...............................................    19
    Senator Ossoff...............................................    22
    Senator Blumenthal...........................................    23
Prepared statements:
    Senator Peters...............................................    27
    Senator Carper...............................................    29

                               WITNESSES
                       Thursday, November 2, 2023

Harry Coker, Jr., to be National Cyber Director, Executive Office 
  of the President
    Testimony....................................................     3
    Prepared statement...........................................    30
    Biographical and professional information....................    32
    Letter from U.S. Office of Government Ethics.................    47
    Responses to pre-hearing questions...........................    52
    Responses to post-hearing questions..........................    75
    Letter of support............................................    82
Jeff Rezmovic, to be Chief Financial Officer, U.S. Department of 
  Homeland Security
    Testimony....................................................     6
    Prepared statement...........................................    87
    Biographical and professional information....................    89
    Letter from U.S. Office of Government Ethics.................   105
    Responses to pre-hearing questions...........................   108
    Responses to post-hearing questions..........................   124
    Letters of support...........................................   132
Suzanne E. Summerlin, to be General Counsel, Federal Labor 
  Relations Authority
    Testimony....................................................     7
    Prepared statement...........................................   147
    Biographical and professional information....................   149
    Letter from U.S. Office of Government Ethics.................   168
    Responses to pre-hearing questions...........................   171
    Responses to post-hearing questions..........................   184
    Letter of support............................................   193

 
                    NOMINATIONS OF HARRY COKER, JR.,
                           JEFF REZMOVIC, AND
                          SUZANNE E. SUMMERLIN

                              ----------                              


                       THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 2, 2023

                                     U.S. Senate,  
                           Committee on Homeland Security  
                                  and Governmental Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in SD-
562, Senate Dirksen Building, Hon. Gary Peters, Chairman of the 
Committee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Peters [presiding], Carper, Hassan, 
Sinema, Rosen, Ossoff, Blumenthal, Butler, Lankford, Romney, 
Scott, and Hawley.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PETERS\1\

    Chairman Peters. The Committee will come to order.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ The prepared statement of Senator Peters appears in the 
Appendix on page 27.
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    Today, we are considering three nominations: Harry Coker, 
to serve as the National Cyber Director (NCD); Jeff Rezmovic to 
serve as the Chief Financial Officer (CFO) of the Department of 
Homeland Security (DHS); and Suzanne Summerlin to be General 
Counsel (GC) for the Federal Labor Relations Authority (FLRA).
    Welcome to each of the nominees and to your friends and 
family members who I know are joining us today. It is good to 
see smiling faces behind you as well. Congratulations, and 
thank you for your willingness to continue to serve the public, 
as well as your prior public service to what is truly, with all 
three of these positions, very important positions for the 
Federal Government.
    Mr. Coker, if confirmed, you will play a key role in 
strengthening our nation's cybersecurity. This Committee worked 
to establish the Office of the National Cyber Director (ONCD) 
to develop and coordinate a comprehensive whole-of-government 
approach to cybersecurity. Since the office was formed in 2021, 
I have been pleased to work with former Director Chris Inglis 
and Acting Director Kemba Walden on their efforts to stand up 
the new office and develop the first-ever National 
Cybersecurity Strategy and first-ever National Cyber Workforce 
and Education Strategy. The next National Cyber Director will 
be instrumental in driving the implementation of these 
strategies. The National Cyber Director must be able to foster 
collaboration and cooperation across government, and with 
partners in the public and private sectors.
    Our country faces significant cyber threats, including from 
foreign agents, cybercriminals, and so-called ``hacktivist'' 
groups. In order to protect our economy and critical 
infrastructure from these evolving threats we must take a 
comprehensive approach to cybersecurity.
    Mr. Coker, I look forward to hearing about your plans to 
lead the office and buildupon the progress already made by this 
young agency.
    Mr. Rezmovic, if confirmed, you will oversee the budget and 
financial operations for one of the largest and most complex 
Federal agencies. The Department of Homeland Security has an 
annual budget of over $60 billion that supports the work of 
over 250,000 employees that keep our nation safe each and every 
day.
    The CFO for the Department plays a key role in ensuring 
that DHS is using its resources both effectively and 
responsibly. It is vitally important that the CFO understands 
the complexities of DHS and its components and is committed to 
working with Congress in an open and transparent manner.
    Mr. Rezmovic, I look forward to hearing more about your 
background and your approach to the CFO role.
    Ms. Summerlin, I am very glad that we are considering your 
nomination to be FLRA General Counsel today. The FLRA has not 
had a Senate-confirmed General Counsel for nearly seven years, 
since January 2017. This prolonged vacancy has been detrimental 
to the agency and its work enforcing Federal labor relations 
laws.
    The FLRA's General Counsel is responsible for investigating 
and prosecuting Unfair Labor Practice cases, ensuring both 
Federal employees and agency management are treated fairly and 
in accordance with Federal labor relations laws.
    The FLRA General Counsel must be able to impartially 
evaluate cases and effectively manage a small but very 
dedicated team of attorneys and staff in offices across the 
country. Ms. Summerlin, I look forward to hearing more about 
your experience and plans for this role.
    Welcome again to all three of you.
    The Committee has heard from a wide range of individuals 
and organizations in support of each of your nominations, and 
today's hearing is an important opportunity for us to hear from 
you directly about your qualifications and your plans for 
taking on these very challenging roles.
    It is the practice of this Committee to swear in witnesses, 
so if each of you would please stand and raise your right hand.
    Do you swear the testimony that you will give before this 
Committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you, God?
    Mr. Coker. Yes.
    Mr. Rezmovic. Yes.
    Ms. Summerlin. Yes.
    Chairman Peters. You may be seated. Thank you.
    Harry Coker has dedicated his career to defense and 
national security. He most recently served as Executive 
Director of the National Security Agency (NSA), directly 
supporting the Director and Deputy Director as the 
organization's third in command. He was awarded the National 
Intelligence Distinguished Service Medal for his work.
    Prior to his time at NSA, Mr. Coker served at the Central 
Intelligence Agency (CIA) for 17 years. He is a graduate of the 
U.S. Naval Academy, the Naval Post-Graduate School, and 
Georgetown University Law School, and is a career Naval 
Officer. I am always glad to welcome a Navy man to this 
Committee. I know Senator Carper agrees with me that it is 
always great to see a Navy man here in front of the Committee. 
You are now recognized for your opening comments.

    TESTIMONY OF HARRY COKER, JR.,\1\ TO BE NATIONAL CYBER 
          DIRECTOR, EXECUTIVE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT

    Mr. Coker. Chairman Peters, Ranking Member Paul, 
distinguished Mmembers of the Committee, I am honored to appear 
before you as the nominee to lead the Office of the National 
Cyber Director. I would like to thank President Biden for 
nominating me and this Committee for its continued support of 
this important position and office.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ The prepared statement of Mr. Coker appears in the Appendix on 
page 30.
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    I also want to recognize and thank my family, to include 
extended family of mentors, classmates, friends, and my church 
family. Without their support, I would not have had the 
opportunities that I have been blessed with. My mother, who 
served a career as a Navy wife, and then became an educator, 
and my father, who would have turned 91 today, was a Navy Chief 
and then an educator. They raised their nine children with love 
and discipline. My late wife remains an inspiration because of 
her strength and passion for life. Our daughters and 
granddaughter are carrying on her legacy in a manner that would 
make her immensely proud.
    I have proudly served our Nation for over four decades in 
the military and as a civil servant. Although it was not called 
``cyber'' when I first became interested as a high schooler in 
Parsons, Kansas, by the time I graduated from the United States 
Naval Academy I recognized the importance of what is now known 
as cyberspace. I worked at the intersection of technology and 
national security for the next 20 years while serving our 
Nation in uniform as a naval officer. I continued this work in 
a different capacity, spending another two decades as a civil 
servant and senior leader at both the Central Intelligence 
Agency and the National Security Agency.
    Since retiring from government service in 2019, I have 
continued focusing on the challenges our Nation faces in 
cyberspace by supporting organizations that prepare for and 
respond to evolving cyber threats. During this time, I have 
seen a need for stronger partnerships and collaboration between 
the public and private sectors, and if confirmed, I will 
continue to ensure that collaboration is the North Star at the 
Office of the National Cyber Director and the guiding principle 
for the Administration's cyber work with all partners, 
including Congress.
    The challenges we face in cyber are both broad in scope and 
dynamic. There is a proliferation of persistent and capable 
threat actors from nation-states and criminal organizations 
that regularly target our schools, hospitals, cities, and 
businesses. Here at home, according to public reports, hundreds 
of thousands of open jobs that touch on ``cyber'' need to be 
filled. There are also risks to our supply chain and the 
technologies that underpin our digital ecosystem, spanning from 
the need to update legacy systems to the challenge of securely 
designing the products of the future.
    Although the risks in cyber are pervasive, the President's 
National Cybersecurity Strategy and its Implementation Plan are 
the roadmaps we need to tackle them. The solutions cannot be 
about any one entity, or even just the Federal Government. 
Taking action in the face of these challenges requires working 
together to improve our cybersecurity posture.
    I am prepared to take on these challenges. If confirmed, I 
will work with interagency colleagues, the private sector, 
Congress, and many others to help foster a digital ecosystem 
that is inherently more defensible, resilient, and aligned with 
our values.
    I have observed how the Office of the National Cyber 
Director has risen to address these obstacles. The inaugural 
National Cyber Director did yeoman's work crafting and standing 
up the office with the support of the President and this 
Committee. The current Acting National Cyber Director has 
carried on that legacy. Just in the past year, the office 
spearheaded the President's National Cybersecurity Strategy, a 
public implementation plan for the Strategy, and the National 
Cyber Workforce and Education Strategy. It produced joint 
guidance with the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) for 
Federal agency cybersecurity spending priorities, and it has 
hosted leaders from numerous industries at the White House 
seeking substantive feedback on core cybersecurity issues and 
driving subsequent public-private collaboration.
    Collaboration with many stakeholders is what motivates me 
to return to public service just as eagerly as I did when a 
Navy recruiter visited my high school many years ago. Today 
cyber is often front-page news, and I remain humbled and 
honored by the opportunity to again serve our great Nation. If 
confirmed, I will bring the full complement of my experience, 
expertise and ethos to the position of National Cyber Director.
    Thank you for considering my nomination and I look forward 
to answering your questions.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Mr. Coker.
    Now we will turn over and recognize Senator Carper, who 
will introduce one of our nominees.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARPER

    Senator Carper. Thanks, Mr. Chair. Before I do that I want 
to say Harry Coker, I am a retired Navy Captain, the last 
Vietnam veteran serving in the U.S. Senate. I was 17 years old 
when I raised my hand and took an oath to defend our country 
and Constitution. It is an honor especially to welcome you as 
one Navy veteran to another.
    You notice not all of our Members are here right now. There 
is a debate that is unfolding on the floor today. There are 
like 300 men and women who have been nominated, senior ranking 
officers in the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, and we 
have not been allowed to have a confirmation vote. We are going 
to try to get three of them done today. One of them would be 
the first woman ever to be nominated to serve as the Chief of 
Naval Operations. So this is a big day. It is a big day because 
you are here, but it is a big day in the Senate. We are going 
to do our job.
    Congratulations on your nomination, and congratulations to 
you as well. I see Jeff Rezmovic has some support right behind 
him. It looks like his mom and dad are here. What are their 
names?
    Mr. Rezmovic. Senator, my parents are Victor and Evi 
Rezmovic.
    Senator Carper. The lady in the green dress, is that your 
daughter?
    Mr. Rezmovic. That is my wife, Melanie.
    Senator Carper. Oh, sorry. I was just going to say, thanks 
to your mom and dad for raising you, and actually all of your 
parents. My dad was a Chief Petty Officer in World War II as 
well. But thanks to them for raising you, and Suzanne, your 
parents too, with the idea that we have an obligation to give 
back and to serve. We are delighted to be here with you today.
    I am going to say a few words about Jeff Rezmovic. I might 
be mistaken on this, Mr. Chairman, but I think it has been like 
a decade. I think it may have been a decade since we had a 
Senate-confirmed Chief Financial Officer in the Department of 
Homeland Security. I think that is awful. An agency with a 
budget the size of this one, it is an almost $100 billion 
budget, and that is unacceptable, and I am hopeful we can take 
a big step forward toward filling that vacancy and a couple of 
others.
    Jeff knows DHS better than just about anybody I know. He 
has served in various leadership roles for over a decade, 
including as Deputy Chief of Staff for Policy, as well as 
Acting Deputy Chief of Staff and as a Counselor to the Deputy 
Secretary as well. All of that. He has also worked for the 
Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), and for the U.S. 
Citizenship and Immigration Service (USCIS). You must be about 
100 years old. That is a lot of service.
    His dedication to our country has driven his successes, 
leading him overseas to oversee thousands of employees and 
drive the Department's mission to support the functions of 
human capital, security, procurement, information technology 
(IT), and a lot more.
    Jeff is exceptionally well qualified to serve as the 
Department's next CFO, and I know his long-held institutional 
knowledge and his extensive experience in budget management 
will serve our country well.
    Again, welcome to his parents, and thanks to them and to 
his wife for their willingness to serve him, and we look 
forward to hearing from you today.
    I am going to slip out and go to the floor and try to get a 
couple of people confirmed to serve in other roles, but I will 
be back later for the vote.
    Thank you, all. Congratulations.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Carper.
    Mr. Rezmovic, you are recognized for your opening comments.

 TESTIMONY OF JEFF REZMOVIC,\1\ TO BE CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER, 
              U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

    Mr. Rezmovic. Chairman Peters, Ranking Member Paul, and 
distinguished Members of the Committee, it is an honor to 
appear before you today as the President's nominee to serve as 
the Department of Homeland Security's Chief Financial Officer. 
I am grateful to the President for nominating me, and to 
Secretary Mayorkas and Acting Deputy Secretary Canegallo for 
their leadership and their support. Thank you, Senator Carper, 
for your kind introduction. That means more to me than you 
know. It means a great deal to my family as well. Thank you. I 
am also grateful to all of you for consideration of my 
nomination.
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    \1\ The prepared statement of Mr. Rezmovic appears in the Appendix 
on page 87.
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    I would not be here today without the love, support, and 
inspiration of my wife, Melanie, who is sitting behind me. She 
is my best friend, my partner, and my home. She is also a 
career public servant at the U.S. Agency for International 
Development (USAID), and she carries an incredibly heavy load 
for our family, despite having a demanding and meaningful job 
herself.
    My parents, Victor and Evi Rezmovic, are also here with me 
today. They are both immigrants and naturalized citizens. They 
are both the children of Holocaust survivors, and they are both 
former public servants. My work ethic, my integrity, my 
resolve, and my commitment to public service are a direct 
result of having won the parent lottery.
    My two sons, Ben and Cory, are too young to understand what 
today's hearing is about, but I hope that they watch it one day 
when they are older. I hope that it can help them to see that 
public service is hard work, but it is work that matters a 
great deal. It is work that is worth doing despite its 
challenges. I hope they see that there is joy and pride in 
committing your life's work to something greater than yourself.
    Public service is all I have done and it is all I have ever 
aspired to do. It is why I came to Capitol Hill right out of 
college. It is why I served as a Law Clerk on this Committee's 
Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations (PSI) while I was in 
law school. It is why I have spent the last 13 years at the 
Department of Homeland Security.
    Over those years of service, I have not only learned about 
the essential work of the Department of Homeland Security, but 
I have learned what makes it great, and that is the career 
civil servants who fulfill the Department's critical missions.
    I know firsthand how important the DHS Office of the Chief 
Financial Officer is in enabling the Department's mission 
because I have worked alongside its personnel for years. Among 
other things, they develop and execute budgets to deliver on 
the Department's missions; they modernize our financial systems 
to ensure that we are expending taxpayer resources 
appropriately and responsibly; they engage with the Government 
Accountability Office (GAO), the Office of Inspector General 
(OIG), and Congress as partners in strengthening the 
Department; they oversee financial assistance programs to 
eliminate waste, fraud, and abuse; and they measure the 
effectiveness of our work to ensure that DHS is always 
improving and always delivering.
    In my previous role as the Department's Deputy Chief of 
Staff and in my current role as the Department's Associate 
Deputy Under Secretary for Management, I have had the privilege 
of working closely with this dedicated team of public servants. 
It would be the greatest honor of my professional life to lead 
them, and to support and empower the work that they do each day 
to help execute the DHS mission for the American people.
    During my tenure at DHS, I have served under Secretaries 
and Deputy Secretaries of both political parties. I have served 
at the Department's headquarters and in two of its operational 
components. I have worked alongside career officials and 
political appointees. What I have found, universally, is that 
there is no group of people better suited to protect this 
nation from the threats of today, and to prepare for the 
threats of tomorrow, than the personnel of the Department of 
Homeland Security.
    Thank you again for considering my nomination, and I look 
forward to your questions.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you.
    Suzanne Summerlin has a wide range of experience in Federal 
labor law. She has advocated for civilian employees at more 
than 30 agencies, most recently in her capacity as Deputy 
General Counsel and Deputy Executive Director for the Federal 
Education Association.
    Prior to her legal career, Ms. Summerlin was an award-
winning journalist, producer, and documentarian. She has 
received both her undergraduate and graduate degrees from the 
University of Florida, and is proud to be 100 percent public 
school educated.
    Ms. Summerlin, you are now recognized for your opening 
comments.

 TESTIMONY OF SUZANNE E. SUMMERLIN,\1\ TO BE GENERAL COUNSEL, 
               FEDERAL LABOR RELATIONS AUTHORITY

    Ms. Summerlin. Thank you and good morning. Chairman Peters 
and Members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to 
appear before you today as nominee for the position of General 
Counsel at the Federal Labor Relations Authority. I am deeply 
grateful for the trust that President Biden has placed in me 
through this nomination.
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    \1\ The prepared statement of Ms. Summerlin appears in the Appendix 
on page 147.
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    Further, I would like to thank the Members of this 
Committee and their staffers for reviewing my qualifications 
for this position, the staff at the FLRA for their support 
during this process, and my colleagues throughout the Federal 
sector labor bar for their confidence in me to fulfil the role 
of General Counsel of the FLRA.
    It is a profound honor to be considered for this critical 
role. Through my experience, I understand that the demands of 
the General Counsel require not only legal expertise but also a 
deep understanding of the unique challenges and 
responsibilities of managing labor relations in the Federal 
sector. If confirmed, I will be committed to upholding the 
statute's mission to promote fair, effective, and efficient 
relationships between agencies, their employees, and their 
unions.
    I myself have been in the working world since I was six 
years old. Whether it was a job on a film set as a background 
actor, producing live television, or working as an attorney, I 
have learned that disputes at work are inevitable.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes referred to labor struggles as the 
``one of the eternal conflicts out of which life is made.'' 
Fortunately for us, in the case of the Federal sector, Congress 
has devised a way to manage that eternal conflict. It created 
the statute.
    Since 1978, the statute has established the rulebook by 
which agencies, their employees, and their unions resolve labor 
disputes.
    I have witnessed firsthand that when the players follow 
this rule book, follow the statute, everyone benefits--and I do 
mean everyone. When agencies and unions follow the rules it 
``promotes the efficiency of the Federal service.'' To me what 
that means is that taxpayer dollars, agency resources, and the 
time and talent of dedicated career civil servants can all be 
focused on the mission of their individual agencies and not 
tied up in labor disputes.
    If confirmed as General Counsel, I will dedicate myself to 
applying the law judiciously, balancing the interests of 
employees, unions, and management in a fair and impartial 
manner. I will work tirelessly to ensure that the FLRA 
continues to promote labor-management harmony and effective 
government operations.
    In conclusion, I am honored to be nominated to serve as 
General Counsel at the FLRA and to work closely with its 
dedicated staff. If confirmed, I pledge to approach this role 
with integrity, transparency, and an unwavering dedication to 
the principles of fairness and justice under the statute. I 
look forward to your questions.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you for that.
    There are three questions that the Committee asks of every 
nominee, and I am going to ask each of you to respond briefly 
with just a yes or no. Mr. Coker, I will have you go first and 
we will just go down the row here.
    First, is there anything you are aware of in your 
background that might present a conflict of interest with the 
duties of the office to which you have been nominated?
    Mr. Coker. No, sir.
    Ms. Summerlin. No, sir.
    Mr. Rezmovic. No, Mr. Chair.
    Chairman Peters. Second, do you know of anything, personal 
or otherwise, that would in any way prevent you from fully and 
honorably discharging the responsibilities of the office for 
which you have been nominated?
    Mr. Coker. No, sir.
    Ms. Summerlin. No, sir.
    Mr. Rezmovic. No, Mr. Chair.
    Chairman Peters. Last, do you agree, without reservation, 
to comply with any request or summons to appear and testify 
before any duly constituted committee of the Congress if you 
are confirmed?
    Mr. Coker. Yes, sir.
    Ms. Summerlin. Absolutely.
    Mr. Rezmovic. Yes, Mr. Chair.
    Chairman Peters. Great. Thank you.
    Mr. Coker, the Office of the National Cyber Director, as 
you know was established in the 2020 National Defense 
Authorization Act (NDAA), making it a certainly relatively new 
organization. My question for you is what experiences do you 
have in growing and maturing organizations, and if confirmed, 
how would you go about assessing the existing ONCD structure 
and working to mature the office?
    Mr. Coker. Yes, sir. First off, thanks to this Committee 
for supporting the standup of the office. The office, from my 
perspective, has demonstrated its value. Although standing up 
organizations, which I do have experience with, at the initial 
phase is a lot of process, a lot of discussion, a bit of chaos 
and dynamic atmospherics, that is natural.
    Personally, I have had the opportunity to stand up 
organizations at the small unit level. Specifically, when I was 
at sea, a ship got a new and unique capability and I was tasked 
with standing up the organization that had to develop the 
processes to operate and maintain that system. It included 
collaboration across a number of naval platforms.
    Later in my Department of Defense (DOD) career I was on the 
team that stood up, a plank owner if you will, the Department 
of Defense Space Architect, another effort that was very 
collaborative, but we stood it up from the ground floor.
    In my civil service career, I had the pleasure of standing 
up a number of organizations, one of which was a collaborative 
effort between the Department of Defense and the intelligence 
community (IC) just after 9/11. Valuable lessons learned there.
    My private sector experience includes work with startups, 
literally with startups, that are understanding the lay of the 
land and developing their business cases as they seek funds to 
address those business or use cases. From the government 
perspective, in partnership with those startups, we saw the 
value in dialogue between the public and private partnerships.
    Then the last example I will leave you all with is during 
the latter part of my civil service career I was on a small 
team of fingers that helped to restructure the organizational 
construct of a major organization. There were plenty of lessons 
learned there, one of which was it is difficult to over-
communicate with the need for change and how everyone is 
involved in effecting that change.
    Chairman Peters. Great. Thank you.
    Mr. Rezmovic, I congratulate you on your 13 years of 
service to the Department, under both Republican and Democratic 
administrations. Your experience holding several leadership 
roles in two DHS components and at the Department's 
headquarters I think gives you some unique perspective on DHS 
management as well as DHS operations.
    But for the purposes of better understanding that 
experience, if you could tell us how your experience has 
prepared you to take on this particular role as Chief Financial 
Officer and the steps that you have taken to ready yourself to 
take on a much bigger role would be helpful for members of this 
Committee to hear.
    Mr. Rezmovic. Mr. Chairman, thank you for the question. As 
you said, I have served at the Department for 13 years, both at 
headquarters and in operational component roles. During my time 
as the Department's Deputy Chief of Staff I also led the 
Department's budget development and budget execution, served as 
the primary senior-level interlocutor between the Department 
and the Office of Management and Budget.
    I have also critically been able to, and had the good 
fortune to, engage with our frontline workforce over the course 
of my many years in the Department, and have been able to 
understand what their needs are, and if confirmed as the CFO, 
what will drive me is delivering for our workforce. I have had 
the good fortune of seeing them out in the field, especially 
our frontline personnel. I understand what their needs are, 
large and small. I have good relationships with the 
Department's component heads, both operational as well as 
headquarters, and I look forward, if confirmed, to being able 
to leverage those relationships in furtherance of delivering 
for our Department's personnel.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you.
    Ms. Summerlin, as you know, the extended period without a 
confirmed General Counsel has significantly disrupted FLRA's 
ability to adjudicate charges of unfair labor practices (ULPs) 
all across the government enterprise. At one point it caused a 
backlog of almost 500 complaints, which I think we should all 
agree is unacceptable.
    My question for you is if confirmed, how will you approach 
the challenges created by such a prolonged vacancy, and if you 
could give this Committee some idea of your initial priorities, 
if confirmed, that would be helpful.
    Ms. Summerlin. Absolutely. Yes. The initial priorities, the 
FLRA fortunate enough to have an outstanding Acting General 
Counsel over the course of a couple of years who did yeoman's 
work in clearing out the majority of the backlog. In fact, I 
believe it did clear out the backlog in its entirety until she 
had to step down from the position I think at the beginning of 
August.
    It is my understanding a small backlog has developed, 50 to 
60 cases right now. I think that is going to be the top 
priority of my term as General Counsel is to get in there and 
clear the backlog. I am so fortunate to be able to rely on the 
expertise and on the staff who have just gone through this 
process to clear the 500 case backlog that was there. So 50 
probably seems quite doable compared to that.
    That will be the first thing that we knock out of the park, 
absolutely.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you. Senator Carper, you are 
recognized for your questions.
    Senator Carper. Thank you, sir. Mr. Rezmovic. I was 
literally present at the creation for the Department of 
Homeland Security, and we have seen the transformation of 22 
agencies into a single department to serve our country, while 
it has been not always easy to watch. There were some 
struggles, some good times, some really tough challenges that 
we faced around the world. We see them even today.
    But while the Department has made major strides and major 
progress toward improving management functions, we need to 
strengthen the financial management functions of the 
Department, and that remains on GAO's High Risk List.
    I would just ask, what would be your approach to working 
with GAO, led by Gene Dodaro, to ensure that these 
recommendations are fulfilled from GAO? Can you share with us 
any specific priorities you have with regard to strengthening 
the Department's financial management functions? Please, go 
ahead.
    Mr. Rezmovic. Senator, thank you for the question. GAO is a 
partner in strengthening the Department, and the more that we 
treat them as a partner the better we are and the stronger we 
are as a department. I am not just saying that because my mom, 
who is sitting behind me, served at GAO for 30 years.
    Senator Carper. Really?
    Mr. Rezmovic. True story. I am saying it because we have 
seen the results.
    Senator Carper. Was she Gene Dodaro's predecessor?
    Mr. Rezmovic. We have seen the results. When the Department 
was created it was immediately placed on the GAO High Risk 
List, in its entirety. The scope of the High Risk List area was 
implementing the Department of Homeland Security. Over the 
course of significant engagement and partnership with the GAO, 
what we have seen over the past several years is a significant 
narrowing of the scope of the Department's High Risk List area, 
from implementing the Department of Homeland Security to 
strengthening DHS management functions, to, in the most recent 
GAO High Risk List, strengthening DHS IT and financial 
management functions.
    We have to get off the GAO High Risk List. If confirmed as 
the Department's CFO, among my greatest priorities will be 
moving forward with financial systems modernization. Right now 
we have approximately 40 percent of the Department's spending 
occurring on modern integrated financial systems, and of course 
we have to get to 100 percent. If confirmed, my priority would 
be to ensure that that work stays on time, on budget, and I 
will look for every opportunity to accelerate that work.
    Senator Carper. You will be pleased to know you do not have 
eyes in the back of your head, but when you talk about your 
mom's experience at the General Accountability Office I can see 
what she is thinking. She is thinking, ``That is my son.'' That 
is pretty encouraging.
    All right, Mr. Coker, I am going to pick on you for a 
minute there. My dad was a Chief Petty Officer in the Navy. So 
was my uncle, my mom's brother, and my grandmother was a Gold 
Star mother. But we bleed Navy blue in my family, and probably 
you in yours too.
    But it is great to have you here before the Committee as a 
nominee to serve as our National Cyber Director, and we thank 
you again for your distinguished service to our country.
    More than eight years ago, a former colleague and friend of 
ours, someone that Senator Lankford knows very well, Tom 
Coburn, and I worked together to enact legislation that would 
make it easier for the Department of Homeland Security to hire 
cybersecurity professionals. Following a lengthy development 
period, the program has proven, I think by most people's 
regards or opinions, successful. DHS has begun hiring under the 
Cyber Talent Management system.
    That said, there remains an enduring urgent need to hire 
more cybersecurity professionals across the Federal Government 
and throughout the private sector, and we must continue to 
focus on bolstering our cyber workforce to ensure that we are 
doing all we can to recruit and retain the best and brightest 
minds out there to improve our nation's cybersecurity.
    In your testimony you highlighted the cyber workforce 
shortage and the risks it poses for our cybersecurity posture. 
If confirmed as National Cyber Director, how will you lead the 
charge to strengthen our Federal cyber workforce and engage the 
private sector to ensure recruiting efforts are in line with 
our cybersecurity goals?
    Mr. Coker. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss what I 
think is most important, not just professionally but 
personally, and it is people. The Workforce Education Strategy 
is all about getting the right people, with the proper 
development, to address the hard problems that our nation 
faces, in this case in cybersecurity.
    If confirmed, I would, frankly sir, continue the good work 
that ONCD has done with its partners. The strategy that we have 
mentioned tackles this challenge head-on. It recognizes that it 
is a whole-of-nation challenge. It gets the right involvement 
with the private sector but also with another key partner, the 
State, local, tribal and territorial (SLTT) governments.
    If confirmed, sir, what I would do is drive to those levels 
to ensure that they know a few things, and one is based on 
mentoring that I do in Baltimore City with middle school kids. 
I ask what are their favorite subjects. They span liberal arts, 
Science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM), all 
of that. That is no longer the case, and that has to be 
messaged. Frankly, that strategy, that Workforce Education 
Strategy, has a pillar, a foundation in that we need to 
increase the cyber skills of all Americans. That is one, 
regardless of interest in STEM.
    Then we need to transform cyber education, and that is why 
it is important that we have such a strong partnership, again, 
with State and local governments. This is a challenge, again, 
whole-of-nation, but it is going to be the State and local 
governments that have to lead that. ONCD and that strategy has 
made a point of ensuring that SLTTs are aware of the resources 
that are available. Again, my recent government experience with 
the Centers for Academic Excellence is an opportunity to show 
educational communities how to transform a curriculum by 
providing guidance.
    The last point I will briefly mention, sir, is that we need 
to change the way we look at vacancy notices, job 
questionnaires. In cyber, it should not be a requirement for 
everyone to have a four-year degree. You can get that cyber 
education without going through a four-year college. Again, we 
need to deliver that message broadly and deeply.
    Those are just a few of the steps that I would take, if 
confirmed, sir.
    Senator Carper. All right. That is good. I would just share 
with my colleagues and with all of you, we are in session. We 
go into session here usually Monday afternoons, start voting 
Monday afternoons and Monday night. We are in session most 
Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays, and we finish up Thursday 
afternoon. A lot of us go home, back to our States and to our 
families.
    One of the things I do, I do customer calls. I do customer 
calls every week. We only have three counties and a million 
people in Delaware. But I visit the businesses large and small. 
I ask them, ``What are your needs and what can we do to help?'' 
Almost everybody says we need people to come to work. One of 
the greatest needs is in terms of cyber. The cyber areas are 
really tough to do. We just need to do a better job on the 
private sector, colleges and universities, to prepare that 
workforce. Thank you.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Carper.

               OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR ROSEN

    Senator Rosen, you are recognized for your questions.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you, Chair Peters. I really appreciate 
you holding this hearing, and thank you to all of you for being 
here today.
    I want to move on to critical infrastructure, as we are 
talking about all of these things, cyber and STEM, because 
according to a recently released 2024 Department of Homeland 
Security threat assessment, both foreign and domestic cyber 
actors--and I am going to quote here--``continue to seek 
opportunistic access to critical infrastructure sector targets 
for disruptive and destructive attacks.''
    Now more than ever, the role of the Office of the National 
Cyber Director is key in maintaining the defense of our 
critical infrastructure sectors.
    Mr. Coker, given the fact that the vast majority of our 
critical infrastructure is owned or controlled oftentimes by 
private entities, it is essential that the Federal Government 
closely collaborate with the private sector. How do you view 
the Office of the National Cyber Director's role in 
facilitating these relationships with the private sector in 
regard to critical infrastructure?
    Mr. Coker. Yes, ma'am. Thanks for that question. It is a 
vital one. My perspective has been, for years--and I would be 
able to follow up on it more hands on if confirmed--national 
security, especially cybersecurity, requires partnerships 
across the public sector and the private sector. Although I 
have been in situations where that partnership was not a true 
partnership, where it was more one way--give me what you have 
got, tell me what you know, and I will see you later. That will 
not be effective in cybersecurity. I am delighted that, from my 
optic, the Federal Government, generally, and ONCD, in 
particular, recognizes the necessity of partnership with the 
private sector.
    I have had experiences where the private sector has 
actually brought threat information to the government. Another 
way to look at the private sector with regard to cybersecurity 
is in many cases they are on the front line, and I can use an 
analogy. It is not perfect but it is close enough. They are on 
the front line, fighting the threats every day. You could say 
that is a combatant command, if you will. In this case a 
supporting command would be ONCD and others in the Federal 
Government, but ensuring that the private sector knows there is 
a true partnership and that their knowledge, their 
capabilities, and their risks are appreciated and supported.
    If confirmed, I would communicate that regularly. I would 
demonstrate the value of the partnership. One of those areas is 
in information sharing. Again, we cannot succeed without the 
strength of that partnership.
    Senator Rosen. Could you elaborate a little bit on the 
secure-by-design products, because the secure-by-design 
products, they are designed to protect against malicious cyber 
actors gaining access to devices, data, all the connected 
infrastructure. Would you ensure that some of these agencies 
are using and procuring this secure-by-design software so that 
the Federal Government can engage better, building on that 
topic?
    Mr. Coker. That secure-by-design, it really does flow from 
one of the major shifts that is incorporated in the National 
Cybersecurity Strategy, the two shifts being rebalance of 
responsibility defending cyberspace to those that are more 
capable. The second major shift, that gets directly to your 
point, is to realign the incentives to a long-term investment, 
and that is where it comes into place. We need to ensure that 
it is not just a focus on first to market. It needs to be 
secure to market. The government can incentivize secure-by-
design secure to market. So that is the way that needs to be 
demonstrated, as we shift that balance to realign the 
incentives toward that.
    Senator Rosen. I like that secure to market. You set me up 
perfect for the next question because the initiatives that are 
outlined with the goals set by the National Cybersecurity 
Strategy, all of these things are in there. It is so important. 
How would you, if you are confirmed, ensure that these 
initiatives are outlined, the things you are talking about, 
that you get the necessary support and funding?
    Mr. Coker. Again, I may have set you up for that question 
but----
    Senator Rosen. You did not know it was my next question. It 
was perfect.
    Mr. Coker. You set me up for something that, again, I have 
been just delighted, as I have been doing my reading and 
preparation and the strategy that we referred to is a document 
that is the result of more than 400 sessions with folks, not 
just across the government, not just across the Federal 
Government, but State, local, tribal, and territorial, but our 
private sector partners. They are a key.
    So it is having that plan that is not just the President's 
or not just ONCD's, not just the Federal Government. It is the 
United States' cybersecurity strategy. I get the sense that the 
private sector partners, and actually other Federal and State 
partners, believe it is their plan, our plan together. So ONCD 
has done a masterful job on that.
    Also key to that strategy is the implementation plan that 
comes along with it. Sixty-nine initiatives that flow from that 
strategy that go to every issue that I am aware of related to 
defending our cybersecurity strategy. Not just those 
initiatives but I think it is 18 or so different departments or 
agencies that are tasked and held responsible, held accountable 
for that implementation.
    Last on that point, there are milestones associated with 
that. As a former program manager in the government, I know it 
is key to have cost schedule and performance, have those 
metrics. They have to be there. If you cannot measure it, you 
cannot manage it. So ONCD, to their credit, and to the 
partnership's credit, has done a masterful job in pulling that 
strategy and implementation plan together.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you. I see my time is just about up, 
but as a former computer programmer--I will submit this for the 
record--I introduced the Civilian Cybersecurity Reserve Act to 
allow people working in the private sector to serve, like they 
do in other areas of Reserve or Guard type duty, based on that, 
because there is a lot of technical expertise, people want to 
serve, and sometimes it is years to get that experience. I will 
submit that for the record and we can talk about that.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Rosen.
    Senator Lankford, you are recognized for your questions.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LANKFORD

    Senator Lankford. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to all of 
you for going through the process. It is a lengthy, long 
process to be able to go through, so I appreciate you and your 
families and what you are doing on this.
    Mr. Coker, thank you for the time. I got a chance to be 
able to pick your brain at length this week in my office. 
Thanks for making yourself available just to be able to walk 
through this, obviously many things that are exceptionally 
important to the entire nation, that you will be tasked to work 
on, so I very much appreciate that. For your family, and for 
you and your lengthy service, thank you for that kind of 
engagement.
    I do want to be able to ask some questions, though, 
specifically and to be able to walk through a couple of things. 
FLRA's regulations provide no interested person outside this 
agency shall make or knowingly cause to be made any prohibited 
ex parte communication to any authority member who is or who 
may reasonably be expected to be involved in the decisional 
process of the proceeding. I know you know that well, as a 
counsel, obviously, or potential Counsel. You are aware of 
that. Any thought son that as far as just in part of the FLRA 
regulation?
    Ms. Summerlin. I feel like that is a very common provision 
that you would see in most statutes of this type, certainly 
within the labor sector. It is vital and important to keep a 
wall between the folks who are asking for resolution before the 
authority and for the folks that are providing that resolution 
in the form of the three members of the Federal Labor Relations 
Authority.
    Senator Lankford. Which we all agree is exceptionally 
important on that. You are also aware that Chairman DuBester, 
from FLRA, in an Inspector General (IG) investigation, based on 
ex parte communications, that he was accused to have, and that 
he then withdrew his nomination. He was going through the 
process, was preparing to be able to come before this 
Committee. When the IG investigation came out and there were 
multiple emails that came out on that, he withdrew his request 
to be able to be in this, which the President accepted.
    The interesting part to me on that was he withdrew based on 
those communications, but when we go through the emails you 
were often the other person on the other side of those emails, 
back and forth. In 2019 and 2020, Chairman DuBester reached out 
to you several times in phone calls and in emails. October 23, 
2019, Chairman DuBester emailed you specifically ``if you might 
have a minute to chat sometime this week. Wanted to update a 
couple of FLRA matters of interest.'' On November 13th of that 
same year, Chairman DuBester emailed you to ask ``if you had a 
second to chat sometime this week for an update.''
    In June 2020, Mr. DuBester reached out to officials on an 
email, which you were included on, requesting a phone call to 
provide a quick update. You responded to that with some 
suggested times to be able to set up a call. After the call, 
one of your colleagues replied to the email chain, ``Thanks for 
keeping us informed. We are very grateful.''
    These matters were apparently related to things that were 
at FLRA. Do you remember those calls or those emails back and 
forth with him?
    Ms. Summerlin. Thank you for your question, and I 
understand that I have responded to these questions throughout 
this process. I think it is important to know that I have never 
seen, nor was I ever contacted by the Department of Treasury 
Office of Inspector General in regard to these allegations or 
this report. I have never had inappropriate or unethical 
communications with Mr. DuBester.
    In my duties at the National Federation of Federal 
Employees (NFFE), I was tasked with communicating legal 
developments to the Federal Workers Alliance (FWA). The FWA is 
an organization of unions that represent workers in the Federal 
sector. The president of NFFE, Randy Erwin, is also the co-
chair of FWA, and as such he sometimes tasked me to do FWA 
work. I would speak to representatives of several agencies 
involved in the Federal worker labor issues, including the 
Office of Personnel Management (OPM) and the FLRA.
    Mr. DuBester was often the contact I was given to call to 
set up times for him to come in and brief the FWA on new 
developments at the FLRA.
    This is similar to updates given to us by OPM at the time, 
and in keeping with what I understood to be a tradition of FLRA 
members coming to speak to the FWA, and to also other 
organizations. I have seen Mr. DuBester and other members of 
the FLRA speak at conferences, for labor, labor management 
relations together.
    Like I said, I was never contacted in the course of this 
investigation. We are talking about phone calls that happened 
four and five years ago. I was never contacted or given a 
chance to refresh my memory or recollection of these. However, 
I can say with certainty that Mr. DuBester was always prefacing 
everything that he was saying, giving disclaimers at all times 
to his ethical duties, because he had the ethical duties as a 
member of the FLRA. He was constantly telling us, ``I can only 
discuss public information,'' ``I can only tell you what is 
available out there.''
    Senator Lankford. I understand, but obviously, based on the 
IG investigation, he has withdrawn from this. We are not 
talking about Mr. DuBester at this point on this. I am trying 
to be able to figure this out. I do know we contacted the 
inspector general, and we just asked the question, based on the 
email chains and such, and we said, ``OK, is there any concern 
here?'' The inspector general's response to us was, ``The email 
chains that were between you and Mr. DuBester is an example of 
the kind of message that contributed to our conclusion that the 
former FLRA chairman engaged in a pattern of activity that 
created the appearance of impropriety.''
    Again, that is not about you. That is about him.
    Ms. Summerlin. Right.
    Senator Lankford. But it was specifically about the back 
and forth that he was having with you at that time.
    Ms. Summerlin. I wish somebody would have given me a call 
so I could have talked to him about it. These were ministerial 
phone calls in nature. They were phone calls that were setting 
up times for him to come in and brief--we are lawyers. We like 
it to be spoon-fed for us sometimes. We like to have people 
come in and give us presentations on what is going on with the 
case law. It is a pretty normal thing.
    If I had been asked by the inspector general I would have 
been able to give that information.
    Senator Lankford. Mr. Chairman, we will just walk through 
it from there, obviously. There are unique challenges that we 
have that the Administration, quite frankly, has put us in 
front of that obviously you were not a party to in the middle 
of all of this in the conversation the Administration is going 
to make. But we have an individual that the inspector general 
obviously did an investigation, came back and said, hey, there 
is the appearance of impropriety here of actually sharing 
information, through a pretty lengthy investigation. The 
challenge that the Administration has put in front of us, the 
other side of that communication now, is sitting in front of us 
as the next person to be nominated. It does create a unique 
challenge that we have as a Committee that we do need to be 
able to talk about.
    Chairman Peters. Very good. Thank you.
    Senator Hassan, you are recognized for your questions.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HASSAN

    Senator Hassan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks to you 
and the Ranking Member for having this hearing. Thank you to 
our witnesses here, our nominees, for your willingness to 
serve. We thank your families too, because service is a family 
endeavor, and we really appreciate it.
    Mr. Coker, I want to start with a question for you, and it 
is really following up a little bit on an area that Senator 
Rosen started to ask you about. Earlier this week this 
Committee heard from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) 
Director Christopher Wray that the FBI helped a children's 
hospital thwart a cyberattack sponsored by the Iranian 
government. That target of that attack was Boston Children's 
Hospital, a hospital that provides critical care for families 
across New England, the country, and frankly, around the world.
    As National Cyber Director, you would be responsible for 
implementing the National Cyber Strategy. If confirmed, what 
will your office do to help agencies and stakeholders implement 
the strategy in ways that will enhance cybersecurity 
specifically for our health care system?
    Mr. Coker. Yes, ma'am, and thank you for the question. That 
really does get to one of the key shifts that is advocated for 
in the National Cybersecurity Strategy, rebalancing the 
responsibility for defending the cyberspace to those who are 
more capable.
    Hospitals, as we all know, have critical functions in 
health care. They also have privileged information about 
individuals, and then they have, frankly, life and death type 
of information and systems. It is imperative that they be 
protected. But that major shift would take some of that 
responsibility, in this case away from hospitals, and shift it 
up to those that are more capable. For example, our partners 
across the Federal Government have threat information, specific 
threat information that they would share with hospitals and 
other entities if it is credible and timely. Our partners 
across the Federal cyberspace also have capabilities that are 
available to entities, in this case hospitals, to help build 
and test their cybersecurity systems.
    Part of ONCD's responsibilities, as I see it, is to make 
sure that those that are less capable are more aware of the 
threats and capabilities that they can take advantage of.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you for that, and I know that the 
health care community would look forward to continuing this 
work with partners like you and the agency.
    Mr. Coker. As would I, ma'am.
    Senator Hassan. Ms. Summerlin, I have a question for you. 
Obviously, Federal employees work every day in service to our 
country, and the unions that represent them are critical 
partners in ensuring that agencies can attract and retain a 
talented Federal workforce. If confirmed, how will you foster 
productive partnerships between unions and Federal agencies to 
ensure that the Federal Government can attract and retain top 
talent?
    Ms. Summerlin. Thank you for your question, Senator, and I 
think this is something that is very close to my heart because, 
in my experience working in the Federal sector, seeing the 
labor sausage getting made up close, and as an American 
taxpayer I become concerned when I see labor disputes drag on 
for years. I get concerned when I see bad relationships between 
agencies and their employees and their unions. Because what the 
statute contemplates and what the Office of General Counsel 
(OGC) can do is foster positive relationships, and I think that 
there is a little bit of a joke. It is the Federal Labor 
Relations Authority, not the Federal Labor Enforcement 
Authority. We are here to build relationships.
    That is what I think, first and foremost, is the most 
important thing--and I think one of the best ways to do that 
from the Office of General Counsel's standpoint, is to move 
through these cases as effectively and efficiently as possible. 
Because when these cases drag on for years, unfortunately we 
have not had a confirmed General Counsel for a number of years. 
There were cases that came down that had major, huge amounts of 
interest, and all this money that was spent on delay, that as 
an American taxpayer I do not like to see that happen. As 
somebody who is concerned about Federal labor management 
relations I definitely do not like to see that happen.
    What we want to focus on first and foremost is building 
these relationships, and we can do that through things that are 
not necessarily prosecuting ULPs, but part of that, and then 
when we do have to prosecute a ULP we need to do it 
effectively, efficiently, and as quickly as possible.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you for that.
    Mr. Rezmovic, in May I held an Emerging Threats and 
Spending Oversight Subcommittee (ETSO) hearing on the national 
security threats posed by aging technology infrastructure 
within the Department of Homeland Security. The three DHS Chief 
Information Officers (CIOs) who testified at the hearing 
stressed the need for financial resources to support IT 
modernization. A strong working relationship between the CFO 
and CIO is critical for curtailing wasteful spending on aging 
technology and prioritizing investments in modern, more 
efficient, and effective systems.
    If confirmed, how will you partner with the Chief 
Information Officer of DHS to manage investments in IT 
modernization in a fiscally responsible way, including reducing 
the agency's reliance on legacy IT?
    Mr. Rezmovic. Senator, thank you for that question. I know 
our Chief Information Officer extremely well. I work with him 
very closely. The Department has approximately an $8 billion IT 
budget, and as you well know, a lot of legacy systems. The 
Chief Information Officer did recently put out an IT Strategic 
Plan that I think will be helpful here in identifying and 
prioritizing what are the right projects to move forward with 
in the near term.
    If I were confirmed, I would be focused on a few things. 
One, I would be laser-focused on financial systems 
modernization, making sure that it stays on time, on budget. 
That is certainly under the remit of the Office of the CFO. 
Right now we have approximately 40 percent of our Department 
spending occurring on those modern systems, and we need to get 
to 100 percent.
    Second, I would want to make sure that we are incorporating 
the right modernization projects through our regular budget 
cycles. I would work closely with the CIO on that.
    Third, when it comes to issues that arise in between budget 
cycles, making sure that we have the tools and resources that 
you have helped to make available to us, to include the 
Technology Modernization Fund (TMF) and the Non-Recurring 
Expense Fund.
    Senator Hassan. I appreciate that very much, and I thank 
you, Mr. Chair. I will submit a question for the record for Mr. 
Coker about preparing for a post-quantum world and what we do 
as our adversaries develop better and better quantum 
technology. But I will submit that for the record. Thank you 
very much.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Hassan.
    Senator Hawley, you are recognized for your questions.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HAWLEY

    Senator Hawley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Congratulations to 
the nominees. Thanks for being here.
    Mr. Coker, let me start with you. Are you familiar with the 
case Missouri v. Biden from the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals?
    Mr. Coker. I am vaguely familiar, sir, from what I have 
read in the open press.
    Senator Hawley. Let me refresh your memory. This is a case 
in which, first, the Federal District Court, then the Federal 
Court of Appeals held that the White House and assorted other 
various Federal agencies violated the First Amendment of the 
United States, illegal actions, unconstitutional actions, by 
coercing and colluding with the biggest social media 
corporations in the world to suppress and censor protected 
speech.
    Let me read you a few passages. ``Officials from the White 
House began communicating with social media companies, 
including Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Google, in early 2021. 
From the outset, that came with requests to take down flagged 
content. In one email, a White House official told the platform 
to take down a post as soon as possible (ASAP), and instructed 
it to keep an eye out for tweets that fall in the same genre so 
that they could be removed. In another email, an official told 
the platform to remove an account immediately and said he could 
not stress the degree to which this needs to be resolved 
immediately.'' The court goes on to find--these are findings, 
by the way, not allegations, findings--those requests for 
removal were met.
    The court goes on. ``The White House did not only flag 
content, they started monitoring the platform's moderation 
activities too, and they often asked for and received frequent 
updates to the platform's moderation policies. They not only 
continued the platforms to take down content the official 
flagged and provided requested data to the White House, they 
also changed their moderation policies expressly in accordance 
with the White House's wishes.''
    Bottom line here, the court found that the White House 
successfully pressured and coerced, once again, the biggest 
corporations in the world to censor Americans. Here is how the 
court summarized it. They said it was ``a coordinated campaign 
of unprecedented magnitude, orchestrated by Federal officials 
that jeopardized a fundamental aspect of American life.'' That 
is pretty strong language. This is pretty bad stuff.
    Do you think that this is wrong, Mr. Coker? Do you think 
that the White House meeting with social media corporations and 
pressuring them to censor protected speech by Americans is 
wrong?
    Mr. Coker. Sir, with regard to ONCD, we do not have a role 
related to that. We are focused on the digital infrastructure 
and the digital ecosystem, and that is where ONCD is today, and 
if confirmed, I presume that is the roadmap that ONCD would 
continue to follow.
    Senator Hawley. You would not see it as any part of your 
remit to meet with social media corporations?
    Mr. Coker. I would meet with whatever entity, if confirmed, 
that could help build and maintain a more defensible digital 
infrastructure and a more resilient digital infrastructure.
    Senator Hawley. You would be against any efforts to use 
your office or any other office you have input in, in the White 
House, if you were to be confirmed here, to censor or 
manipulate or otherwise engage in unconstitutional activities?
    Mr. Coker. I am strong proponent, of First and Fourth 
Amendments, free speech and privacy. I do not see any role in 
ONCD in that area. But again, if I could speak personally, 
censorship is not an area that I personally believe in. I am 
advocate for constitutionally protected speech.
    Senator Hawley. Good. I ask you because cybersecurity is 
often cited, and you can see it in this decision, is often 
cited as a reason to censor. This is part of the rationale that 
the White House and the FBI and DHS all used, according to 
these Federal courts, to go to these big corporations and say, 
``You have to do what we tell you to do.'' The finding of the 
court was the government basically turned these corporations 
into an arm of the Federal Government. I emphasize, the biggest 
corporations on the planet, with the most extensive control of 
speech on the planet, and our government used them, turned them 
into an arm of itself, and in some of these cases post by post 
and said, ``Take this down. Take that down. Censor this 
person.'' In my home State of Missouri, parents who were trying 
to circulate a petition about school policy with regard to 
masks had their posts taken down at the direction of the White 
House. This is not in a novel. This happened. For all I know it 
is still happening, in this country.
    I want to make sure, Mr. Coker, that you are going to be a 
voice for the First Amendment, and if somebody comes to you and 
says, ``You need to go and meet with these social media 
companies and you need to do this stuff, you need to tell them 
take down those posts, I do not like that, we are threatening 
you,'' you will say, ``No how, no way.''
    Mr. Coker. Sir, I took my first oath to the Constitution 
when I was 17 years old, and I have taken it periodically ever 
since. There is no stronger advocate for the United States 
Constitution, to include all amendments, than I am, sir.
    Senator Hawley. Good. You would be a breath of fresh air in 
that regard, in this White House.
    Let me ask you something else. Am I right in thinking that 
you have served, maybe you currently serve, as a senior 
advisory group member within ODNI?
    Mr. Coker. I have worked some projects for ODNI.
    Senator Hawley. OK. Have you been involved in any 
discussions regarding ODNI's obligation to declassify 
information about the links between the Wuhan Institute for 
Virology (WIV) and the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) 
pandemic?
    Mr. Coker. Not at all, sir.
    Senator Hawley. OK. Do you know what I am referring to 
here?
    Mr. Coker. No, sir, I do not.
    Senator Hawley. Well, we passed a law--and I say ``we,'' I 
mean this body passed a law. We passed it unanimously out of 
the Senate. It was passed by the House of Representatives. It 
was signed by the President. I happen to know something about 
it because I wrote it, and it requires ODNI--requires, not 
requests, requires ODNI--to declassify, I believe the language 
we settled on is ``any and all information''--pretty broad--
``any and all information related to the origins of COVID-19.''
    ODNI has not complied with that statutory obligation. They 
had a deadline. They blew right through it. When they finally 
did give us information they gave us a five-page summary. They 
gave us no actual information, none of the detail required in 
the statute. I know this is a family hearing, Mr. Chair, they 
basically have given us the finger. Let us put it that way. Too 
bad; we are not going to comply.
    I cannot tell you how destructive I think that is, not just 
to the relationship between the White House and the Congress, 
but to the basic rule of law. The American people have a right 
to expect the laws will be followed, and also when it comes to 
something like COVID-19 that their government will be honest 
with them about what they know. That is what this law requires, 
what they know.
    If you are confirmed, will you commit to us, Mr. Coker, 
that you will comply with statutes duly enacted that this body, 
Congress, enacts and writes into law.
    Mr. Coker. Absolutely, sir.
    Senator Hawley. All right. Very good. Thank you. I will 
have some other questions for you all and I will submit them 
for the record. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Hawley.
    Senator Ossoff, you are recognized for your questions.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR OSSOFF

    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and 
congratulations to you all for your nominations. It is a 
pleasure to be here with you.
    Mr. Coker, Georgia is increasingly a hub for technological 
innovation in the cyber sector, and the Georgia Cyber Center in 
Augusta is a world-class facility that I would like to invite 
you to visit. This institution strengthens not just Georgia but 
the Nation and helps to train, develop, and implement 
technologies and techniques crucial to securing critical 
infrastructure and to securing the overall U.S. cyber 
environment.
    My question for you is will you commit to joining me in 
Augusta, Georgia, at the Cyber Center, should you be confirmed 
to this post, to meet with key cybersecurity leaders in Georgia 
and discuss ways that the White House can support our efforts 
in Georgia?
    Mr. Coker. If confirmed, sir, I would love to visit 
Augusta, Georgia, and the Cyber Center with you. I actually 
have experience there in Augusta. I had the honor of visiting 
and working with NSA Georgia in Augusta a number of times, and 
I have former colleagues who work at the Cyber Center. It would 
be, again, my honor to visit Augusta on that topic.
    Senator Ossoff. Excellent, and the men and women at NSA 
Georgia and the U.S. Army Cyber Center for Excellence at Fort 
Gordon are doing an outstanding job for the Nation.
    Mr. Coker. Yes, sir, they are.
    Senator Ossoff. I would like to discuss with you cyber 
threats to the Legislative Branch, and just as Executive Branch 
agencies are a target for foreign intelligence services (FIS), 
adversaries, and hackers, so too is this institution and the 
U.S. House and Legislative Branch components.
    What I would like from you is a commitment that consistent 
with the relevant boundaries, separation of powers, that you 
will find a way to work with me to make sure that the Senate 
Sergeant at Arms (SSA) is maximally empowered to defend U.S. 
Senate networks. Should you be confirmed, will you sit down 
with me and have a conversation about whether and how that 
might be possible?
    Mr. Coker. If confirmed, I would be delighted to, sir. 
Information sharing, especially as it applies to situational 
awareness for cyberspace, it is vital. I would be delighted to 
meet with you and whomever you think is appropriate on that 
topic, sir.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Coker. As I believe you have 
testified, and as I have no doubt, you agree having a highly 
qualified cyber workforce is crucial to U.S. cybersecurity. 
Both public and private sector entities need highly qualified 
professionals who are trained in this complex and ever more 
important area.
    I wrote legislation called the Community Opportunity Act, 
which passed as part of the Creating Helpful Incentives to 
Produce Semiconductors (CHIPS) and Science Act, which 
established the Dr. David Satcher Cybersecurity Education 
Program, named after the former Surgeon General of the United 
States and a proud Georgian, which authorizes National 
Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) to award grants to 
Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs) and 
minority-serving institutions to establish and enhance their 
cybersecurity education programs.
    Will you commit, if confirmed, to working with my office to 
help ensure, consistent with the boundaries, the proper 
parameters of your obligations at the White House, to ensure 
that this legislation is effectively implemented?
    Mr. Coker. Although I am not familiar with the legislation, 
sir, from what you tell me it is something that fits very 
nicely and appropriately with the Cyber Workforce Education 
Strategy, in particular, trying to close that hundreds of 
thousands gaps in community-related vacancies by going to 
underserved communities, places we have not gone before, and 
not at all lowering standards. I come from one of those 
underserved communities, rural Kansas, where I had not heard of 
the Naval Academy, but the Naval Academy had the good sense to 
recruit to places they had not recruited to often enough. In 
this case it sounds like the act would take the same type of 
approach to filling these critical gaps.
    Senator Ossoff. Mr. Coker, I have good news. It is not 
merely legislation. It is now law, and I look forward to 
working with you to implement it. I would suggest that your 
schedule permitting perhaps while you are in Georgia visiting 
Augusta we could also pay a visit to the Atlanta University 
Center and discuss with the HBCU leadership there how they can 
ensure that their students are empowered to join the cyber 
workforce.
    I appreciate all of you for your service to the country and 
congratulate you on your nominations and look forward to 
working with you to ensure that our nation is protected and 
that our national interests are pursued and advanced. Thank 
you.
    Mr. Coker. Thank you, sir.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Ossoff.
    Senator Blumenthal, you are recognized for your questions.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR BLUMENTHAL

    Senator Blumenthal. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. This week, as you 
all know, President Biden issued a pretty sweeping order on 
artificial intelligence (AI), and the issue of security is 
central to that order, covering issues like malicious deep 
fakes, cybersecurity of infrastructure, protections for AI 
models.
    Senator Hawley and I are working on comprehensive 
legislation on AI, and cybersecurity is at the core of our 
work. Our focus is not only on the steps the Executive Order 
(EO) proposes but also issues like the use of AI by foreign 
adversaries. This field is moving very quickly, as you well 
know, and yet it has barely received any mention in the 
National Cybersecurity Strategy that was published this March.
    Let me ask you, looking at how quickly this field is 
moving, looking at how important it is, what issues would be 
your focus, Mr. Coker, as National Cyber Director, and what 
should we be doing to address those risks?
    Mr. Coker. With regard to AI, sir?
    Senator Blumenthal. Yes.
    Mr. Coker. AI, like many emerging technologies, has pros 
and cons, and I can just speak to some of the potential 
benefits to artificial intelligence as they apply to 
cybersecurity. There is an awful lot of data that is not just 
available but that is essential to cybersecurity, so much so 
that big data analytics need artificial intelligence capability 
to process through those mounds of data and turn it into 
actionable intelligence in a timely manner. That is a direct 
area in which artificial intelligence can and must support 
cybersecurity.
    But like with many technologies and emerging capabilities 
there are other sides that we need to be concerned about with 
artificial intelligence. Although I have not made it through 
the recent Executive Order just yet--it is over 100 pages--from 
what I have seen at a top level there is recognition of those 
potential concerns, and that needs to be a focus area along 
with the potential benefits of artificial intelligence.
    Senator Blumenthal. What are the key assignments that you 
have under the Executive Order, or that you would have, if 
confirmed?
    Mr. Coker. My understanding is that the Office of the 
National Cyber Director does have a seat, actually, on the 
White House Artificial Intelligence Council, so ONCD will sit 
on that council, sir.
    Senator Blumenthal. In terms of the 2024 Presidential 
election, talk to us perhaps a little bit about what keeps you 
up at night when you think about it, in terms of cybersecurity.
    Mr. Coker. With regard to elections, they are run by State 
and local governments, and so my concern is that State and 
local governments get all the support that they need to be able 
to execute their respective elections in a safe, accurate, and 
confident way. Given the role that ONCD, and frankly, the 
Federal Government by and large, would have, it would be a 
supporting role to the State and local, tribal and territorial 
governments with regard to how they run their elections.
    If confirmed, from an ONCD perspective, I would ensure that 
those SLTTs are aware of the resources that are available to 
them, specifically there are partners that could take a look at 
how defensible and resilient their election infrastructure is. 
There are other partners that could provide timely and credible 
threat information. But again, it is the State and local, 
tribal and territorial governments that have the lead, with the 
Federal Government in support.
    Senator Blumenthal. Do you have, in your office, in the 
Office of the National Cyber Director, an outreach function to 
State and local governments?
    Mr. Coker. I have not had the benefit of meeting with the 
entire office and getting that type of insight, sir, but from 
my reading of the strategy, both the National Cybersecurity 
Strategy and the National Cyber Workforce and Education 
Strategy, ONCD has a strong outreach, not just to those SLTTs 
but across the private sector as well. Without having sat 
through an organizational chart I am very confident that that 
type of outreach is in place at ONCD, sir.
    Senator Blumenthal. I think States are going to need the 
benefit of the expertise and insight that your office and you 
can bring to bear, so I think that is going to be a very 
important function that you can perform, and hopefully you have 
the resources to do it. I do not know how big your staff is in 
that office.
    Mr. Coker. I absolutely agree, sir. Again, ONCD has been 
referred to as a coach. There are other players on the field, 
and in the case of election security those players on the field 
really are the State, local, tribal, and territorial 
governments that ONCD, amongst other partners, needs to support 
with the expertise and other resources to, again, effect sold 
elections, sir.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you very much. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal.
    I would like to thank our nominees again for joining us 
here today and for your willingness to serve in these very 
important positions.
    The nominees have filed responses to biographical and 
financial questionnaires,\1\ and without objection this 
information will be made part of the hearing record,\2\ within 
the exception of the financial data,\3\ which is on file and 
available for public inspection in the Committee offices.
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    \1\ The information on Mr. Coker appears in the Appendix on page 
32.
    \2\ The information on Mr. Rezmovic appears in the Appendix on page 
89.
    \3\ The information on Ms. Summerlin appears in the Appendix on 
page 149.
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    The hearing record will remain open until 12 p.m., 
tomorrow, November 3, for the submission of statements and 
questions for the record.
    This hearing is now adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:19 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

                            A P P E N D I X

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